<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_06_1426235</id>
	<title>The Perils of DRM &mdash; When Content Providers Die</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1244301720000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"If you purchase music or movies online, <a href="http://www.cepro.com/article/what\_happens\_to\_your\_digital\_content\_if\_the\_provider\_goes\_out\_of\_business/">what happens if the vendor goes out of business</a>? Will you have trouble accessing your content? The question came up recently after HDGiants &mdash; provider of high-quality audio and video downloads &mdash; filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. A consumer says his content became locked inside his PC. Walmart customers suffered a similar fate last year when the <a href="//yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/27/1521238&amp;tid=141">retailer shut down its DRM servers</a> (a <a href="//yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/10/1215209&amp;tid=141">decision they reversed</a> after many complaints). And if Vudu dies? Your content may be locked in a proprietary box forever. Time to start buying discs again?"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " If you purchase music or movies online , what happens if the vendor goes out of business ?
Will you have trouble accessing your content ?
The question came up recently after HDGiants    provider of high-quality audio and video downloads    filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection .
A consumer says his content became locked inside his PC .
Walmart customers suffered a similar fate last year when the retailer shut down its DRM servers ( a decision they reversed after many complaints ) .
And if Vudu dies ?
Your content may be locked in a proprietary box forever .
Time to start buying discs again ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "If you purchase music or movies online, what happens if the vendor goes out of business?
Will you have trouble accessing your content?
The question came up recently after HDGiants — provider of high-quality audio and video downloads — filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
A consumer says his content became locked inside his PC.
Walmart customers suffered a similar fate last year when the retailer shut down its DRM servers (a decision they reversed after many complaints).
And if Vudu dies?
Your content may be locked in a proprietary box forever.
Time to start buying discs again?
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28238225</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>P0ltergeist333</author>
	<datestamp>1244299320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>If the media industry had caught on the track earlier and offered music at a reasonable price without any crippling DRM they would have been better off in sales. There are people willing to pay for it, if they can get it. Going torrent works for some, but some of us wants a reliable and legal source for our media.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Millions and millions of people think the music industry sells music at a reasonable price.  Where do you think the music industry got all of its money?
</p><p>
If you don't think the price is reasonable, then don't buy it and wait till it plays on the radio or something.  The world doesn't revolve around you.  You don't get to set the price at which other people sell their stuff.
</p></div><p>Millions of flies can't be wrong, eh? They got all their money through monopolistic practices, screwing the artists, price fixing, selling music on crap media, and selling the same thing over and over again.

For what it's worth, I agree with not purchasing crap. I saw someone on this discussion call a 320 kbps mp3 'high quality'. MP3 is so lossy, if they ever get a true music expert on the stand, all MP3's and other lossy compression should be considered a relatively 'low quality reproduction', and thus covered by fair usage under precedent from the betamax case. I wouldn't pay more than a few cents apiece for a song compressed using lossy compression, and I refuse to purchase media with ANY kind of active DRM after purchasing some PC games online and going through nightmarish hoops to install my own game on my own computer. I encourage everyone I know to adopt similar standards. Luckily, there have been viable alternatives, but at some point those alternatives will not exist, which will take our choice away.

I don't think there is ANYONE who wants to see their favorite artists deprived of payment for their performances. Unfortunately, because of corporate monopolies and collusion, with the exception of a few attempts such as Eddie Vedder's attempt to compete with ticketmaster or the Eagles releasing their own album (unfortunately through exclusivity agreement with Walmart), 90\% of the money generated by the artists goes to paper and pencil pushers and their colluding companies. The robber barons are back in full force, they're just hiding behind the veneer of corporations.

Finally, I personally refuse to purchase any online music that is not lossless (see FLAC), DRM free, and accompanied by a license enabling me to download any song I purchased from the copyright holder in the case of catastrophic data failure as long as I live. I assert my right to fair usage of the CD's that I do purchase, including the right to back up media using lossless or no compression, and to even give my immediate friends and family low quality copies. I encourage others to do the same.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the media industry had caught on the track earlier and offered music at a reasonable price without any crippling DRM they would have been better off in sales .
There are people willing to pay for it , if they can get it .
Going torrent works for some , but some of us wants a reliable and legal source for our media .
Millions and millions of people think the music industry sells music at a reasonable price .
Where do you think the music industry got all of its money ?
If you do n't think the price is reasonable , then do n't buy it and wait till it plays on the radio or something .
The world does n't revolve around you .
You do n't get to set the price at which other people sell their stuff .
Millions of flies ca n't be wrong , eh ?
They got all their money through monopolistic practices , screwing the artists , price fixing , selling music on crap media , and selling the same thing over and over again .
For what it 's worth , I agree with not purchasing crap .
I saw someone on this discussion call a 320 kbps mp3 'high quality' .
MP3 is so lossy , if they ever get a true music expert on the stand , all MP3 's and other lossy compression should be considered a relatively 'low quality reproduction ' , and thus covered by fair usage under precedent from the betamax case .
I would n't pay more than a few cents apiece for a song compressed using lossy compression , and I refuse to purchase media with ANY kind of active DRM after purchasing some PC games online and going through nightmarish hoops to install my own game on my own computer .
I encourage everyone I know to adopt similar standards .
Luckily , there have been viable alternatives , but at some point those alternatives will not exist , which will take our choice away .
I do n't think there is ANYONE who wants to see their favorite artists deprived of payment for their performances .
Unfortunately , because of corporate monopolies and collusion , with the exception of a few attempts such as Eddie Vedder 's attempt to compete with ticketmaster or the Eagles releasing their own album ( unfortunately through exclusivity agreement with Walmart ) , 90 \ % of the money generated by the artists goes to paper and pencil pushers and their colluding companies .
The robber barons are back in full force , they 're just hiding behind the veneer of corporations .
Finally , I personally refuse to purchase any online music that is not lossless ( see FLAC ) , DRM free , and accompanied by a license enabling me to download any song I purchased from the copyright holder in the case of catastrophic data failure as long as I live .
I assert my right to fair usage of the CD 's that I do purchase , including the right to back up media using lossless or no compression , and to even give my immediate friends and family low quality copies .
I encourage others to do the same .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the media industry had caught on the track earlier and offered music at a reasonable price without any crippling DRM they would have been better off in sales.
There are people willing to pay for it, if they can get it.
Going torrent works for some, but some of us wants a reliable and legal source for our media.
Millions and millions of people think the music industry sells music at a reasonable price.
Where do you think the music industry got all of its money?
If you don't think the price is reasonable, then don't buy it and wait till it plays on the radio or something.
The world doesn't revolve around you.
You don't get to set the price at which other people sell their stuff.
Millions of flies can't be wrong, eh?
They got all their money through monopolistic practices, screwing the artists, price fixing, selling music on crap media, and selling the same thing over and over again.
For what it's worth, I agree with not purchasing crap.
I saw someone on this discussion call a 320 kbps mp3 'high quality'.
MP3 is so lossy, if they ever get a true music expert on the stand, all MP3's and other lossy compression should be considered a relatively 'low quality reproduction', and thus covered by fair usage under precedent from the betamax case.
I wouldn't pay more than a few cents apiece for a song compressed using lossy compression, and I refuse to purchase media with ANY kind of active DRM after purchasing some PC games online and going through nightmarish hoops to install my own game on my own computer.
I encourage everyone I know to adopt similar standards.
Luckily, there have been viable alternatives, but at some point those alternatives will not exist, which will take our choice away.
I don't think there is ANYONE who wants to see their favorite artists deprived of payment for their performances.
Unfortunately, because of corporate monopolies and collusion, with the exception of a few attempts such as Eddie Vedder's attempt to compete with ticketmaster or the Eagles releasing their own album (unfortunately through exclusivity agreement with Walmart), 90\% of the money generated by the artists goes to paper and pencil pushers and their colluding companies.
The robber barons are back in full force, they're just hiding behind the veneer of corporations.
Finally, I personally refuse to purchase any online music that is not lossless (see FLAC), DRM free, and accompanied by a license enabling me to download any song I purchased from the copyright holder in the case of catastrophic data failure as long as I live.
I assert my right to fair usage of the CD's that I do purchase, including the right to back up media using lossless or no compression, and to even give my immediate friends and family low quality copies.
I encourage others to do the same.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234381</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236037</id>
	<title>Re:Things you buy don't last forever</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244280120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obvious troll is obvious.</p><p>I see that some people bit and pointed out the glaring faults in your troll logic, well done sir.</p><p>Your notions throw out centuries of established common law and the idea of fair dealings. but then again no one expects trolls to say reasonable things.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obvious troll is obvious.I see that some people bit and pointed out the glaring faults in your troll logic , well done sir.Your notions throw out centuries of established common law and the idea of fair dealings .
but then again no one expects trolls to say reasonable things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obvious troll is obvious.I see that some people bit and pointed out the glaring faults in your troll logic, well done sir.Your notions throw out centuries of established common law and the idea of fair dealings.
but then again no one expects trolls to say reasonable things.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233515</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28239489</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>Z00L00K</author>
	<datestamp>1244315940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You forgot to read the second half "...without any crippling DRM" which is where they REALLY fails.</p><p>Reasonable price may exist online, but then you have to suffer DRM and unusable formats.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You forgot to read the second half " ...without any crippling DRM " which is where they REALLY fails.Reasonable price may exist online , but then you have to suffer DRM and unusable formats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You forgot to read the second half "...without any crippling DRM" which is where they REALLY fails.Reasonable price may exist online, but then you have to suffer DRM and unusable formats.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234381</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28237437</id>
	<title>This is why projects like Requiem are important</title>
	<author>93 Escort Wagon</author>
	<datestamp>1244292060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't expect Apple to disappear, but I still think of Requiem as essential - even though iTMS's music isn't wrapped in Fairplay DRM anymore. Their movies are still restricted, unfortunately. Up until recently I'd avoided purchasing movies through iTunes because of this; but recently I've experimented with a couple purchases that I immediately ran through Requiem (to free them up) and then transferred to my movie server (so I can watch them on our HDTV rather than on a computer screen). As long as everything gets backed up - and Time Machine makes that brain-dead simple - so far I've been happy with this approach. The quality is certainly good enough for my tastes, anyway.</p><p>I'd prefer to not have to order physical media at all anymore, and you'd think the media companies would actually prefer to get away from it too - but so far, with the exception of the music companies (finally), they still don't seem to "get it". Hopefully Apple or someone else will be able to help them realize DRM is, in the long run, actually not in their best interests - but that will require they get their prehistoric business models updated into something more suited towards the current millenium.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't expect Apple to disappear , but I still think of Requiem as essential - even though iTMS 's music is n't wrapped in Fairplay DRM anymore .
Their movies are still restricted , unfortunately .
Up until recently I 'd avoided purchasing movies through iTunes because of this ; but recently I 've experimented with a couple purchases that I immediately ran through Requiem ( to free them up ) and then transferred to my movie server ( so I can watch them on our HDTV rather than on a computer screen ) .
As long as everything gets backed up - and Time Machine makes that brain-dead simple - so far I 've been happy with this approach .
The quality is certainly good enough for my tastes , anyway.I 'd prefer to not have to order physical media at all anymore , and you 'd think the media companies would actually prefer to get away from it too - but so far , with the exception of the music companies ( finally ) , they still do n't seem to " get it " .
Hopefully Apple or someone else will be able to help them realize DRM is , in the long run , actually not in their best interests - but that will require they get their prehistoric business models updated into something more suited towards the current millenium .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't expect Apple to disappear, but I still think of Requiem as essential - even though iTMS's music isn't wrapped in Fairplay DRM anymore.
Their movies are still restricted, unfortunately.
Up until recently I'd avoided purchasing movies through iTunes because of this; but recently I've experimented with a couple purchases that I immediately ran through Requiem (to free them up) and then transferred to my movie server (so I can watch them on our HDTV rather than on a computer screen).
As long as everything gets backed up - and Time Machine makes that brain-dead simple - so far I've been happy with this approach.
The quality is certainly good enough for my tastes, anyway.I'd prefer to not have to order physical media at all anymore, and you'd think the media companies would actually prefer to get away from it too - but so far, with the exception of the music companies (finally), they still don't seem to "get it".
Hopefully Apple or someone else will be able to help them realize DRM is, in the long run, actually not in their best interests - but that will require they get their prehistoric business models updated into something more suited towards the current millenium.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233877</id>
	<title>Re:This is one of the most important drawbacks of</title>
	<author>DarkOx</author>
	<datestamp>1244308800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This should get interesting when the bank auditors start to catch on to this.  If judges force the continued operation of the servers in BK events to protect consumers maybe companies selling DRM'ed content will be unable to get loans!</p><p>This is the case today.  Now there are a number of players whose interest it serves to keep things this way which is why it does not change but the lack of private loans available to federal contractors is a know issue.  In a BK satisfaction of contracts with the federal government are senior to all debt contracts.  That is to say the contract must be satisfied from the available funds if thats even possible before the most senior bond holder can get in line.  Since federal contracts usually stipulate the money is returned plus penalties if the product or service is not delivered lenders usually have a problem with companies that work with the federal government.</p><p>Every wonder why government contractors are usually only big firms?  This is a major reason, its only those firms that know they don't use and won't need private equity financing in the future.  They either have cash operation or can raise the capital on the bond market.  Hint for you bond investors, if you play in junk bonds companies that have federal contracts and are rated junk are probably junkier than ones that don't in terms of your odds of walking away with nothing at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This should get interesting when the bank auditors start to catch on to this .
If judges force the continued operation of the servers in BK events to protect consumers maybe companies selling DRM'ed content will be unable to get loans ! This is the case today .
Now there are a number of players whose interest it serves to keep things this way which is why it does not change but the lack of private loans available to federal contractors is a know issue .
In a BK satisfaction of contracts with the federal government are senior to all debt contracts .
That is to say the contract must be satisfied from the available funds if thats even possible before the most senior bond holder can get in line .
Since federal contracts usually stipulate the money is returned plus penalties if the product or service is not delivered lenders usually have a problem with companies that work with the federal government.Every wonder why government contractors are usually only big firms ?
This is a major reason , its only those firms that know they do n't use and wo n't need private equity financing in the future .
They either have cash operation or can raise the capital on the bond market .
Hint for you bond investors , if you play in junk bonds companies that have federal contracts and are rated junk are probably junkier than ones that do n't in terms of your odds of walking away with nothing at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This should get interesting when the bank auditors start to catch on to this.
If judges force the continued operation of the servers in BK events to protect consumers maybe companies selling DRM'ed content will be unable to get loans!This is the case today.
Now there are a number of players whose interest it serves to keep things this way which is why it does not change but the lack of private loans available to federal contractors is a know issue.
In a BK satisfaction of contracts with the federal government are senior to all debt contracts.
That is to say the contract must be satisfied from the available funds if thats even possible before the most senior bond holder can get in line.
Since federal contracts usually stipulate the money is returned plus penalties if the product or service is not delivered lenders usually have a problem with companies that work with the federal government.Every wonder why government contractors are usually only big firms?
This is a major reason, its only those firms that know they don't use and won't need private equity financing in the future.
They either have cash operation or can raise the capital on the bond market.
Hint for you bond investors, if you play in junk bonds companies that have federal contracts and are rated junk are probably junkier than ones that don't in terms of your odds of walking away with nothing at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235345</id>
	<title>Cable Internet</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1244319300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>no more pay tv?  so be it.  I can live without out!</p></div><p>But how easily can you live without high-speed Internet access if the only provider of home high-speed Internet access ties its high-speed Internet access service to a pay TV service?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>no more pay tv ?
so be it .
I can live without out ! But how easily can you live without high-speed Internet access if the only provider of home high-speed Internet access ties its high-speed Internet access service to a pay TV service ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>no more pay tv?
so be it.
I can live without out!But how easily can you live without high-speed Internet access if the only provider of home high-speed Internet access ties its high-speed Internet access service to a pay TV service?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233757</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233437</id>
	<title>Re:Aha</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244306100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly, why should we do the "right" thing when we are just going to get screwed for it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly , why should we do the " right " thing when we are just going to get screwed for it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly, why should we do the "right" thing when we are just going to get screwed for it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233355</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233807</id>
	<title>Whose?</title>
	<author>arth1</author>
	<datestamp>1244308440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>...if what you "bought" was shallow crap that you will have lost interest in in six months, who cares if the DRM servers shut down after a year? And that describes 99\% of the market.</p></div></blockquote><p>Because that shallow crap is <i>yours</i>.  It's the right that's at stake here, not the economical value or arts value.<br>Is it OK if I go through your home and throw away the things I think are crap?</p><p>One man's crap, another man's treasure.  I don't know whether my daughter in the future would like to have a copy of Lipps Inc. "Funkytown" or Video Kids' "Woodpeckers from Space".  But if she does, they're there.  And playable -- not subject to whether a company has gone belly up or not.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...if what you " bought " was shallow crap that you will have lost interest in in six months , who cares if the DRM servers shut down after a year ?
And that describes 99 \ % of the market.Because that shallow crap is yours .
It 's the right that 's at stake here , not the economical value or arts value.Is it OK if I go through your home and throw away the things I think are crap ? One man 's crap , another man 's treasure .
I do n't know whether my daughter in the future would like to have a copy of Lipps Inc. " Funkytown " or Video Kids ' " Woodpeckers from Space " .
But if she does , they 're there .
And playable -- not subject to whether a company has gone belly up or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...if what you "bought" was shallow crap that you will have lost interest in in six months, who cares if the DRM servers shut down after a year?
And that describes 99\% of the market.Because that shallow crap is yours.
It's the right that's at stake here, not the economical value or arts value.Is it OK if I go through your home and throw away the things I think are crap?One man's crap, another man's treasure.
I don't know whether my daughter in the future would like to have a copy of Lipps Inc. "Funkytown" or Video Kids' "Woodpeckers from Space".
But if she does, they're there.
And playable -- not subject to whether a company has gone belly up or not.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233403</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234815</id>
	<title>Re:How many times have you bought the same cd?</title>
	<author>thetoadwarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1244316360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've been lucky to never lose one because I've always taken excellent care of them and since getting into digital music, any CD I buy is converted and then packed away never to be touched again so they're nothing more than a backup of my MP3s.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been lucky to never lose one because I 've always taken excellent care of them and since getting into digital music , any CD I buy is converted and then packed away never to be touched again so they 're nothing more than a backup of my MP3s .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been lucky to never lose one because I've always taken excellent care of them and since getting into digital music, any CD I buy is converted and then packed away never to be touched again so they're nothing more than a backup of my MP3s.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233689</id>
	<title>Re:How many times have you bought the same cd?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244307660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With a bit of practice, you can hear the score in your head. It takes a lot of practice, as it's about as hard as improvising a piano reduction of an orchestral work on first read.</p><p>I used to take orchestral scores with me to read on the train and found it a pleasant way to pass the time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With a bit of practice , you can hear the score in your head .
It takes a lot of practice , as it 's about as hard as improvising a piano reduction of an orchestral work on first read.I used to take orchestral scores with me to read on the train and found it a pleasant way to pass the time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With a bit of practice, you can hear the score in your head.
It takes a lot of practice, as it's about as hard as improvising a piano reduction of an orchestral work on first read.I used to take orchestral scores with me to read on the train and found it a pleasant way to pass the time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28239221</id>
	<title>Re:How about a deal?</title>
	<author>Philip\_the\_physicist</author>
	<datestamp>1244311620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The law already provides an incentive, namely, not getting sued. Furthermore, if the damages granted were fair, the law would do a lot more to protect the little guy, because if Disney infringes your copyright, you lose millions of potential dollars per time, whereas if you infringe Disney's copyright, they lose $20 per time. The original purpose of damages was to make good the harm done, not to act as punishment, and thus IMO the damages paid should be limited to actual damages + legal and investigatory costs, with regulations to prevent the costs being inflated unreasonably for example, by using a panel of QCs to argue a trivial, low value case merely to punish the defendant). Statutory damages are worthwhile, but as they are intended purely as punishment, should be taken by the state in the same manner as ordinary fines, and the standard of evidence should be required to be the same as for a criminal case.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The law already provides an incentive , namely , not getting sued .
Furthermore , if the damages granted were fair , the law would do a lot more to protect the little guy , because if Disney infringes your copyright , you lose millions of potential dollars per time , whereas if you infringe Disney 's copyright , they lose $ 20 per time .
The original purpose of damages was to make good the harm done , not to act as punishment , and thus IMO the damages paid should be limited to actual damages + legal and investigatory costs , with regulations to prevent the costs being inflated unreasonably for example , by using a panel of QCs to argue a trivial , low value case merely to punish the defendant ) .
Statutory damages are worthwhile , but as they are intended purely as punishment , should be taken by the state in the same manner as ordinary fines , and the standard of evidence should be required to be the same as for a criminal case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The law already provides an incentive, namely, not getting sued.
Furthermore, if the damages granted were fair, the law would do a lot more to protect the little guy, because if Disney infringes your copyright, you lose millions of potential dollars per time, whereas if you infringe Disney's copyright, they lose $20 per time.
The original purpose of damages was to make good the harm done, not to act as punishment, and thus IMO the damages paid should be limited to actual damages + legal and investigatory costs, with regulations to prevent the costs being inflated unreasonably for example, by using a panel of QCs to argue a trivial, low value case merely to punish the defendant).
Statutory damages are worthwhile, but as they are intended purely as punishment, should be taken by the state in the same manner as ordinary fines, and the standard of evidence should be required to be the same as for a criminal case.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235773</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234505</id>
	<title>Re:Valve and Steam</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244313600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I believe Valve said that they would link a chunk of code that would unlock all your Steam purchases if they ever went out of business.</p></div><p>There will always be a way for companies to get around statements like this that they have made: In bankruptcy, sell the "IP" to someone else.
<br> <br>And at any rate, is there really any evidence we should believe such statements?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe Valve said that they would link a chunk of code that would unlock all your Steam purchases if they ever went out of business.There will always be a way for companies to get around statements like this that they have made : In bankruptcy , sell the " IP " to someone else .
And at any rate , is there really any evidence we should believe such statements ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe Valve said that they would link a chunk of code that would unlock all your Steam purchases if they ever went out of business.There will always be a way for companies to get around statements like this that they have made: In bankruptcy, sell the "IP" to someone else.
And at any rate, is there really any evidence we should believe such statements?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233785</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233443</id>
	<title>XKCD</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244306160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://xkcd.com/488/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //xkcd.com/488/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://xkcd.com/488/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235451</id>
	<title>Re:This is one of the most important drawbacks of</title>
	<author>fermion</author>
	<datestamp>1244319720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Until the CD, music pretty much did have a limited lifetime.  All other mediums wore out.  The CD, along with the disruptive effect of the personal computer, create what end of the music business as it then existed.  This model was based upon first sales of original works as singles and albums, sales in multiple format for those who did not invest in equipment to format shift, sales of reissued greatest hits, sales of compilations, and sales of boxed sets.  In effect, each track had the potential be resold multiple times.
<p>
Now with CD and digital downloads each track will likely be sold only once to each consumer, and has no effective limited lifetime.  But this is a recent effect.  The idea of a DRM provider going out of business is really no different than a vinyl album wearing out.  Music with DRM is effectively rented, or licensed, and I am sure most TOS read that way.  In the case of music it is not any different from what has mostly been the case.  Format shift from DRM to CD, with some generational loss, and move on. Kids have been doing this for ny lifetime, at least.
</p><p>
For movies, it is more tricky, but then movies have not had the freedom to format shift and control the content.  VHS tape wore out quickly, and had copy protections very early on.  DVD is a closed, annoying format, and was developed to maximize control of the rights holder even at the expense of the customer.  This is where the battle might be fought.  Certainly the situation with music not that different.  What we might be able to fight is the real deterioration of rights we see in the movie content business.  The fact that DRM can control on which monitors one can play a movie, or that movies can't be easily format shifted, is issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Until the CD , music pretty much did have a limited lifetime .
All other mediums wore out .
The CD , along with the disruptive effect of the personal computer , create what end of the music business as it then existed .
This model was based upon first sales of original works as singles and albums , sales in multiple format for those who did not invest in equipment to format shift , sales of reissued greatest hits , sales of compilations , and sales of boxed sets .
In effect , each track had the potential be resold multiple times .
Now with CD and digital downloads each track will likely be sold only once to each consumer , and has no effective limited lifetime .
But this is a recent effect .
The idea of a DRM provider going out of business is really no different than a vinyl album wearing out .
Music with DRM is effectively rented , or licensed , and I am sure most TOS read that way .
In the case of music it is not any different from what has mostly been the case .
Format shift from DRM to CD , with some generational loss , and move on .
Kids have been doing this for ny lifetime , at least .
For movies , it is more tricky , but then movies have not had the freedom to format shift and control the content .
VHS tape wore out quickly , and had copy protections very early on .
DVD is a closed , annoying format , and was developed to maximize control of the rights holder even at the expense of the customer .
This is where the battle might be fought .
Certainly the situation with music not that different .
What we might be able to fight is the real deterioration of rights we see in the movie content business .
The fact that DRM can control on which monitors one can play a movie , or that movies ca n't be easily format shifted , is issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Until the CD, music pretty much did have a limited lifetime.
All other mediums wore out.
The CD, along with the disruptive effect of the personal computer, create what end of the music business as it then existed.
This model was based upon first sales of original works as singles and albums, sales in multiple format for those who did not invest in equipment to format shift, sales of reissued greatest hits, sales of compilations, and sales of boxed sets.
In effect, each track had the potential be resold multiple times.
Now with CD and digital downloads each track will likely be sold only once to each consumer, and has no effective limited lifetime.
But this is a recent effect.
The idea of a DRM provider going out of business is really no different than a vinyl album wearing out.
Music with DRM is effectively rented, or licensed, and I am sure most TOS read that way.
In the case of music it is not any different from what has mostly been the case.
Format shift from DRM to CD, with some generational loss, and move on.
Kids have been doing this for ny lifetime, at least.
For movies, it is more tricky, but then movies have not had the freedom to format shift and control the content.
VHS tape wore out quickly, and had copy protections very early on.
DVD is a closed, annoying format, and was developed to maximize control of the rights holder even at the expense of the customer.
This is where the battle might be fought.
Certainly the situation with music not that different.
What we might be able to fight is the real deterioration of rights we see in the movie content business.
The fact that DRM can control on which monitors one can play a movie, or that movies can't be easily format shifted, is issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233479</id>
	<title>Unlock content</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244306340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There should be some legislation that either forces companies to unlock your DRM'd content or give you back the money.<br>Walmart was not going out of business so both options were open to them. A company filing for Chapter 11 should just unlock content, that is swap the DRM'd files with unprotected ones. Labels/majors will probably say that unlocking content breaks the agreement in place with the distributor but the law should protect customers in the first place.</p><p>Never buy DRM'd content until some legislation like that is in effect: chances are that you survive most of the companies in this business and/or the DRM technologies they use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There should be some legislation that either forces companies to unlock your DRM 'd content or give you back the money.Walmart was not going out of business so both options were open to them .
A company filing for Chapter 11 should just unlock content , that is swap the DRM 'd files with unprotected ones .
Labels/majors will probably say that unlocking content breaks the agreement in place with the distributor but the law should protect customers in the first place.Never buy DRM 'd content until some legislation like that is in effect : chances are that you survive most of the companies in this business and/or the DRM technologies they use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There should be some legislation that either forces companies to unlock your DRM'd content or give you back the money.Walmart was not going out of business so both options were open to them.
A company filing for Chapter 11 should just unlock content, that is swap the DRM'd files with unprotected ones.
Labels/majors will probably say that unlocking content breaks the agreement in place with the distributor but the law should protect customers in the first place.Never buy DRM'd content until some legislation like that is in effect: chances are that you survive most of the companies in this business and/or the DRM technologies they use.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233355</id>
	<title>Aha</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244305740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...Yeah! <a href="http://www.torrentz.com/" title="torrentz.com">Disks again, whatever</a> [torrentz.com]...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...Yeah !
Disks again , whatever [ torrentz.com ] .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...Yeah!
Disks again, whatever [torrentz.com]...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233433</id>
	<title>Maybe...</title>
	<author>SilverHatHacker</author>
	<datestamp>1244306040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Maybe if the content providers would have used a sound business model that actually ATTRACTS customers instead of alienating them, they wouldn't have died in the first place?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe if the content providers would have used a sound business model that actually ATTRACTS customers instead of alienating them , they would n't have died in the first place ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe if the content providers would have used a sound business model that actually ATTRACTS customers instead of alienating them, they wouldn't have died in the first place?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233445</id>
	<title>Can you still play your VHS?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244306160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While I totally get the hatred of DRM, I always get a kick out of the people who go back to "Well, maybe we should go back to disks" - Do you still have a VCR that works? (You may, but many do not)</p><p>What about a floppy drive?  Laserdisk? 5.25"? 8.5"? 10MB HDD?</p><p>The medium is almost inconsequential to this problem -- the problem is they're trying to give you the medium without the data -- a license to play your reflective disk on your FisherPrice MovieBox, not a license to play your reflective disk in general.</p><p>DRM is a fundamentally flawed idea -- if I give you the data, AND the keys to decrypt it, then it's just a matter of time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While I totally get the hatred of DRM , I always get a kick out of the people who go back to " Well , maybe we should go back to disks " - Do you still have a VCR that works ?
( You may , but many do not ) What about a floppy drive ?
Laserdisk ? 5.25 " ?
8.5 " ? 10MB HDD ? The medium is almost inconsequential to this problem -- the problem is they 're trying to give you the medium without the data -- a license to play your reflective disk on your FisherPrice MovieBox , not a license to play your reflective disk in general.DRM is a fundamentally flawed idea -- if I give you the data , AND the keys to decrypt it , then it 's just a matter of time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I totally get the hatred of DRM, I always get a kick out of the people who go back to "Well, maybe we should go back to disks" - Do you still have a VCR that works?
(You may, but many do not)What about a floppy drive?
Laserdisk? 5.25"?
8.5"? 10MB HDD?The medium is almost inconsequential to this problem -- the problem is they're trying to give you the medium without the data -- a license to play your reflective disk on your FisherPrice MovieBox, not a license to play your reflective disk in general.DRM is a fundamentally flawed idea -- if I give you the data, AND the keys to decrypt it, then it's just a matter of time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235711</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>Goldberg's Pants</author>
	<datestamp>1244321280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've never actually bought any digital content. However I have received it for "free" on some DVD's. One is from about 5 years ago. Tried the content.</p><p>DRM servers are gone.</p><p>As for the anti-piracy crap on DVD's... What amazes me is even up here in Canada... WE GET THE FBI WARNING! (And Canada has it's own DVD's in most cases due to the bi-lingual crap, and they're publisher by other companies. Usually Alliance Atlantis. So many wonderful DVD covers ruined by having the title in both English and French on the front. Aesthetically horrible.)</p><p>Yes, we're receiving law enforcement warnings on our DVD's from a group who has NO jurisdiction up here whatsoever.</p><p>An RCMP one would be so much cooler. "But down that DVD burner, eh!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've never actually bought any digital content .
However I have received it for " free " on some DVD 's .
One is from about 5 years ago .
Tried the content.DRM servers are gone.As for the anti-piracy crap on DVD 's... What amazes me is even up here in Canada... WE GET THE FBI WARNING !
( And Canada has it 's own DVD 's in most cases due to the bi-lingual crap , and they 're publisher by other companies .
Usually Alliance Atlantis .
So many wonderful DVD covers ruined by having the title in both English and French on the front .
Aesthetically horrible .
) Yes , we 're receiving law enforcement warnings on our DVD 's from a group who has NO jurisdiction up here whatsoever.An RCMP one would be so much cooler .
" But down that DVD burner , eh !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've never actually bought any digital content.
However I have received it for "free" on some DVD's.
One is from about 5 years ago.
Tried the content.DRM servers are gone.As for the anti-piracy crap on DVD's... What amazes me is even up here in Canada... WE GET THE FBI WARNING!
(And Canada has it's own DVD's in most cases due to the bi-lingual crap, and they're publisher by other companies.
Usually Alliance Atlantis.
So many wonderful DVD covers ruined by having the title in both English and French on the front.
Aesthetically horrible.
)Yes, we're receiving law enforcement warnings on our DVD's from a group who has NO jurisdiction up here whatsoever.An RCMP one would be so much cooler.
"But down that DVD burner, eh!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234013</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234135</id>
	<title>Re:Can you still play your VHS?</title>
	<author>^\_^x</author>
	<datestamp>1244310780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually I keep players for most formats around, even including VCD and LaserDisk...</p><p>The big problem with DRM though is that if I have a LaserDisk and no player, I can jump on eBay, grab a used one, and it works.<br>If I have a modern gaming console that's no longer supported online, if it dies, I grab a new one, and I'll still never see my downloaded games again, just the initial release, unpatched versions of games on disc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually I keep players for most formats around , even including VCD and LaserDisk...The big problem with DRM though is that if I have a LaserDisk and no player , I can jump on eBay , grab a used one , and it works.If I have a modern gaming console that 's no longer supported online , if it dies , I grab a new one , and I 'll still never see my downloaded games again , just the initial release , unpatched versions of games on disc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually I keep players for most formats around, even including VCD and LaserDisk...The big problem with DRM though is that if I have a LaserDisk and no player, I can jump on eBay, grab a used one, and it works.If I have a modern gaming console that's no longer supported online, if it dies, I grab a new one, and I'll still never see my downloaded games again, just the initial release, unpatched versions of games on disc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233445</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236011</id>
	<title>That's nothing</title>
	<author>De-Jean7777</author>
	<datestamp>1244279940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Walt Disney is screwed if the company that has him criogenically stored bankrupts. Though I am not sure if Walt Disney is actually frozen, it kinda shows that there are always perils when you entrust your private property(let's not mention your life) to other companies(or people). I always considered USA to be the role model for private property. The problem here is it seems that little in USA these days is private property.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Walt Disney is screwed if the company that has him criogenically stored bankrupts .
Though I am not sure if Walt Disney is actually frozen , it kinda shows that there are always perils when you entrust your private property ( let 's not mention your life ) to other companies ( or people ) .
I always considered USA to be the role model for private property .
The problem here is it seems that little in USA these days is private property .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Walt Disney is screwed if the company that has him criogenically stored bankrupts.
Though I am not sure if Walt Disney is actually frozen, it kinda shows that there are always perils when you entrust your private property(let's not mention your life) to other companies(or people).
I always considered USA to be the role model for private property.
The problem here is it seems that little in USA these days is private property.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234935</id>
	<title>Sorry but... we told you so!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have absolutely no sympathies with (knowledgeable) consumers who have theses troubles. If you read this you should have known all the traps from the start.<br>Why would any consumer buy a license to use a good? A license that not only can be revoked under shady business practices but which can effectively be revoked just because the vendor doesn't offer the validation service anymore? This is just plain dumbness on side of the customer and it should be forbidden to do such business for the companies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have absolutely no sympathies with ( knowledgeable ) consumers who have theses troubles .
If you read this you should have known all the traps from the start.Why would any consumer buy a license to use a good ?
A license that not only can be revoked under shady business practices but which can effectively be revoked just because the vendor does n't offer the validation service anymore ?
This is just plain dumbness on side of the customer and it should be forbidden to do such business for the companies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have absolutely no sympathies with (knowledgeable) consumers who have theses troubles.
If you read this you should have known all the traps from the start.Why would any consumer buy a license to use a good?
A license that not only can be revoked under shady business practices but which can effectively be revoked just because the vendor doesn't offer the validation service anymore?
This is just plain dumbness on side of the customer and it should be forbidden to do such business for the companies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233925</id>
	<title>MLB fiasco for fans who didn't continue paying?</title>
	<author>jbn-o</author>
	<datestamp>1244309160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't recall Major League Baseball refunding accounts for their subscribers when MLB left their subscribers out in the cold.  Maybe they restarted their on-demand recorded baseball viewing service with another DRM provider, but I'm referring to the people who did not continue doing business with MLB.  Did they get a prorated refund for the service they were not able to use?  I'm guessing that DRM-riddled services nowadays include language in the contract that says when the service dies the customer agrees to forfeit the remainder of their subscription fee, so it will be up to consumers to organize and make state/federal law that forces providers to give prorated refunds.</p><p>I saw this kind of thing coming when I thought about the implications of copy prevention ("copy protection" is pro-publisher propaganda) back in the 1980s, as I'm sure many posters here did.  Without the freedoms of free software (one can only really implement digital restrictions management in user-subjugating/proprietary software) the implications of DRM are even more important (librarians take note!).  Today I still think about the implications of DRM (<a href="http://www.digitalcitizen.info/2006/09/14/the-naive-hail-drm-a-success-wise-users-like-keeping-their-rights/" title="digitalcitizen.info">1</a> [digitalcitizen.info],<a href="http://www.digitalcitizen.info/2008/05/10/how-does-drm-hurt-me-a-casual-user-of-computer-based-media/" title="digitalcitizen.info">2</a> [digitalcitizen.info]).  As a result I only do business with media distributors that don't screw me or the people they work with (<a href="http://magnatune.com/" title="magnatune.com">Magnatune</a> [magnatune.com], for example, has far better policies than any of the other more well-advertised media distributors).  I mention this because<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. posters all too often believe that one "votes" with their money and should spend accordingly.  I don't agree that money should constitute votes, but I do think our spending reflects our values.  Yet I don't see many posters on this discussion forum actually talking about spending their money wisely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't recall Major League Baseball refunding accounts for their subscribers when MLB left their subscribers out in the cold .
Maybe they restarted their on-demand recorded baseball viewing service with another DRM provider , but I 'm referring to the people who did not continue doing business with MLB .
Did they get a prorated refund for the service they were not able to use ?
I 'm guessing that DRM-riddled services nowadays include language in the contract that says when the service dies the customer agrees to forfeit the remainder of their subscription fee , so it will be up to consumers to organize and make state/federal law that forces providers to give prorated refunds.I saw this kind of thing coming when I thought about the implications of copy prevention ( " copy protection " is pro-publisher propaganda ) back in the 1980s , as I 'm sure many posters here did .
Without the freedoms of free software ( one can only really implement digital restrictions management in user-subjugating/proprietary software ) the implications of DRM are even more important ( librarians take note ! ) .
Today I still think about the implications of DRM ( 1 [ digitalcitizen.info ] ,2 [ digitalcitizen.info ] ) .
As a result I only do business with media distributors that do n't screw me or the people they work with ( Magnatune [ magnatune.com ] , for example , has far better policies than any of the other more well-advertised media distributors ) .
I mention this because / .
posters all too often believe that one " votes " with their money and should spend accordingly .
I do n't agree that money should constitute votes , but I do think our spending reflects our values .
Yet I do n't see many posters on this discussion forum actually talking about spending their money wisely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't recall Major League Baseball refunding accounts for their subscribers when MLB left their subscribers out in the cold.
Maybe they restarted their on-demand recorded baseball viewing service with another DRM provider, but I'm referring to the people who did not continue doing business with MLB.
Did they get a prorated refund for the service they were not able to use?
I'm guessing that DRM-riddled services nowadays include language in the contract that says when the service dies the customer agrees to forfeit the remainder of their subscription fee, so it will be up to consumers to organize and make state/federal law that forces providers to give prorated refunds.I saw this kind of thing coming when I thought about the implications of copy prevention ("copy protection" is pro-publisher propaganda) back in the 1980s, as I'm sure many posters here did.
Without the freedoms of free software (one can only really implement digital restrictions management in user-subjugating/proprietary software) the implications of DRM are even more important (librarians take note!).
Today I still think about the implications of DRM (1 [digitalcitizen.info],2 [digitalcitizen.info]).
As a result I only do business with media distributors that don't screw me or the people they work with (Magnatune [magnatune.com], for example, has far better policies than any of the other more well-advertised media distributors).
I mention this because /.
posters all too often believe that one "votes" with their money and should spend accordingly.
I don't agree that money should constitute votes, but I do think our spending reflects our values.
Yet I don't see many posters on this discussion forum actually talking about spending their money wisely.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235041</id>
	<title>DiVx brought this up years ago.</title>
	<author>suineg</author>
	<datestamp>1244317620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The whole DiVx disc thing made this an issue forever ago.<br> <br>

We still have not gotten past what we would do about DRM that 'turns off' when the company goes under.<br> <br>

What a responsible company should do is give out the software necessary to either negate that specific DRM or at least to facilitate the making of authentication methods to be used at home if it can't be negated as in discs like DiVx.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The whole DiVx disc thing made this an issue forever ago .
We still have not gotten past what we would do about DRM that 'turns off ' when the company goes under .
What a responsible company should do is give out the software necessary to either negate that specific DRM or at least to facilitate the making of authentication methods to be used at home if it ca n't be negated as in discs like DiVx .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The whole DiVx disc thing made this an issue forever ago.
We still have not gotten past what we would do about DRM that 'turns off' when the company goes under.
What a responsible company should do is give out the software necessary to either negate that specific DRM or at least to facilitate the making of authentication methods to be used at home if it can't be negated as in discs like DiVx.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235833</id>
	<title>This could be fixed by legislation.</title>
	<author>MarkvW</author>
	<datestamp>1244278860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A lien is one legal answer that I can think of.  The lien would need to attach at the time of the software purchase.  It couldn't attach when the company goes insolvent, because those kinds of laws are invalidated by the Bankruptcy Code.  It couldn't attach when the service shuts down, because the service would probably shut down while the provider was in bankruptcy and the automatic stay would keep the lien from attaching while the bankruptcy is going on.  A lien is super good.  It gives every creditor the best seat at the bankruptcy table.</p><p>The lien I'm thinking of would be a first priority lien in all the software and documentation used to administer the DRM system.  Every customer would get the right to foreclose on this lien when the DRM unlock service is dropped by the provider.</p><p>This kind of thing would resonate with the legislature because it would REALLY resonate with the general public.  This is a problem EVERYBODY can understand.  Legislators have kids with IPODS too!</p><p>Another option would be a statutorily-mandated escrow system that puts the DRM in trust.</p><p>Presentation of these kinds of ideas would get the ball rolling.  Maybe a better idea would be found, or a worse one.  Anything is better than the current system.</p><p>This is a battle big media cannot fight, because they can't be seen to be claiming the right to fuck you out of your expensively-purchased media libraries so they can resell the same stuff to you later.</p><p>This is the kind of problem that gets fixed in a republic like ours.  If you care, you should go for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A lien is one legal answer that I can think of .
The lien would need to attach at the time of the software purchase .
It could n't attach when the company goes insolvent , because those kinds of laws are invalidated by the Bankruptcy Code .
It could n't attach when the service shuts down , because the service would probably shut down while the provider was in bankruptcy and the automatic stay would keep the lien from attaching while the bankruptcy is going on .
A lien is super good .
It gives every creditor the best seat at the bankruptcy table.The lien I 'm thinking of would be a first priority lien in all the software and documentation used to administer the DRM system .
Every customer would get the right to foreclose on this lien when the DRM unlock service is dropped by the provider.This kind of thing would resonate with the legislature because it would REALLY resonate with the general public .
This is a problem EVERYBODY can understand .
Legislators have kids with IPODS too ! Another option would be a statutorily-mandated escrow system that puts the DRM in trust.Presentation of these kinds of ideas would get the ball rolling .
Maybe a better idea would be found , or a worse one .
Anything is better than the current system.This is a battle big media can not fight , because they ca n't be seen to be claiming the right to fuck you out of your expensively-purchased media libraries so they can resell the same stuff to you later.This is the kind of problem that gets fixed in a republic like ours .
If you care , you should go for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lien is one legal answer that I can think of.
The lien would need to attach at the time of the software purchase.
It couldn't attach when the company goes insolvent, because those kinds of laws are invalidated by the Bankruptcy Code.
It couldn't attach when the service shuts down, because the service would probably shut down while the provider was in bankruptcy and the automatic stay would keep the lien from attaching while the bankruptcy is going on.
A lien is super good.
It gives every creditor the best seat at the bankruptcy table.The lien I'm thinking of would be a first priority lien in all the software and documentation used to administer the DRM system.
Every customer would get the right to foreclose on this lien when the DRM unlock service is dropped by the provider.This kind of thing would resonate with the legislature because it would REALLY resonate with the general public.
This is a problem EVERYBODY can understand.
Legislators have kids with IPODS too!Another option would be a statutorily-mandated escrow system that puts the DRM in trust.Presentation of these kinds of ideas would get the ball rolling.
Maybe a better idea would be found, or a worse one.
Anything is better than the current system.This is a battle big media cannot fight, because they can't be seen to be claiming the right to fuck you out of your expensively-purchased media libraries so they can resell the same stuff to you later.This is the kind of problem that gets fixed in a republic like ours.
If you care, you should go for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234129</id>
	<title>Re:On the other hand...</title>
	<author>camperdave</author>
	<datestamp>1244310720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>..if what you "bought" was shallow crap that you will have lost interest in in six months, who cares if the DRM servers shut down after a year?</i> <br> <br>
Who cares about the shallowness of the stuff.  People have nostalgic moments.  People have theme parties.  Nobody should have to worry about accessing the music and videos they purchased just become some company goes out of business.</htmltext>
<tokenext>..if what you " bought " was shallow crap that you will have lost interest in in six months , who cares if the DRM servers shut down after a year ?
Who cares about the shallowness of the stuff .
People have nostalgic moments .
People have theme parties .
Nobody should have to worry about accessing the music and videos they purchased just become some company goes out of business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>..if what you "bought" was shallow crap that you will have lost interest in in six months, who cares if the DRM servers shut down after a year?
Who cares about the shallowness of the stuff.
People have nostalgic moments.
People have theme parties.
Nobody should have to worry about accessing the music and videos they purchased just become some company goes out of business.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233403</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236309</id>
	<title>Re:Its because of piracy</title>
	<author>slarrg</author>
	<datestamp>1244281860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know. I hope they crack down on all these pirates so we can have a successful automobile industry again.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know .
I hope they crack down on all these pirates so we can have a successful automobile industry again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know.
I hope they crack down on all these pirates so we can have a successful automobile industry again.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233465</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235337</id>
	<title>Re:Analog hole</title>
	<author>PouletFou</author>
	<datestamp>1244319240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>working link for analog hole : <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog\_Hole" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog\_Hole</a> [wikipedia.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>working link for analog hole : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog \ _Hole [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>working link for analog hole : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog\_Hole [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233319</id>
	<title>Start buying disk again?</title>
	<author>pecosdave</author>
	<datestamp>1244305560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I never stopped!  With a DVD I have "Digital Copy" on EVERY DVD without having to use the stupid number system and ask for permission, and it's legal.  I don't have to rely on a content provider to stay in business, and I don't have some company somewhere with self interest telling me what devices I can and can't play back the content on.  Well, I do, but I don't have to listen to them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I never stopped !
With a DVD I have " Digital Copy " on EVERY DVD without having to use the stupid number system and ask for permission , and it 's legal .
I do n't have to rely on a content provider to stay in business , and I do n't have some company somewhere with self interest telling me what devices I can and ca n't play back the content on .
Well , I do , but I do n't have to listen to them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I never stopped!
With a DVD I have "Digital Copy" on EVERY DVD without having to use the stupid number system and ask for permission, and it's legal.
I don't have to rely on a content provider to stay in business, and I don't have some company somewhere with self interest telling me what devices I can and can't play back the content on.
Well, I do, but I don't have to listen to them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233515</id>
	<title>Things you buy don't last forever</title>
	<author>frozentier</author>
	<datestamp>1244306580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not that I agree with this, but these companies that go under could argue that almost nothing you buy lasts forever, so your right to listen to (or watch) what you download should not last forever.  If you buy tires, they wear out and you have to stop using them.  Monitors eventually die, televisions eventually die, etc.  So they could argue that you shouldn't expect your music or movies to be usable forever, either.  Reminds me of the self-destructing DVDs they were going to market:  You rent a movie, the disc itself becomes unreadable after a week or so of being opened, and you got to watch your movie but not keep it forever, yet you don't have to send it back.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not that I agree with this , but these companies that go under could argue that almost nothing you buy lasts forever , so your right to listen to ( or watch ) what you download should not last forever .
If you buy tires , they wear out and you have to stop using them .
Monitors eventually die , televisions eventually die , etc .
So they could argue that you should n't expect your music or movies to be usable forever , either .
Reminds me of the self-destructing DVDs they were going to market : You rent a movie , the disc itself becomes unreadable after a week or so of being opened , and you got to watch your movie but not keep it forever , yet you do n't have to send it back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not that I agree with this, but these companies that go under could argue that almost nothing you buy lasts forever, so your right to listen to (or watch) what you download should not last forever.
If you buy tires, they wear out and you have to stop using them.
Monitors eventually die, televisions eventually die, etc.
So they could argue that you shouldn't expect your music or movies to be usable forever, either.
Reminds me of the self-destructing DVDs they were going to market:  You rent a movie, the disc itself becomes unreadable after a week or so of being opened, and you got to watch your movie but not keep it forever, yet you don't have to send it back.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233819</id>
	<title>Re:Things you buy don't last forever</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244308500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've got books and records that were passed down to me from my father, and given to him by his father.</p><p>It would be a shame not to be able to pass on my favourite art works to my children because they self destructed after a few weeks. (The art works that is, not the children.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've got books and records that were passed down to me from my father , and given to him by his father.It would be a shame not to be able to pass on my favourite art works to my children because they self destructed after a few weeks .
( The art works that is , not the children .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've got books and records that were passed down to me from my father, and given to him by his father.It would be a shame not to be able to pass on my favourite art works to my children because they self destructed after a few weeks.
(The art works that is, not the children.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233515</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236029</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe...</title>
	<author>DaveV1.0</author>
	<datestamp>1244280060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You claim their business model is unsound.</p><p>Please describe in detail their business model and how you would improve it or replace it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You claim their business model is unsound.Please describe in detail their business model and how you would improve it or replace it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You claim their business model is unsound.Please describe in detail their business model and how you would improve it or replace it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233433</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28237381</id>
	<title>new methods..</title>
	<author>garun</author>
	<datestamp>1244291460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think DRM providers have to give a possibility to save DRM licences on some personal and secure carriers - for example, behaves like banks - most of us have debit cards - its unique and personal and checked in terminals

what DRM providers have to do it just supply  a registered user with SmartCard (that stores your DRM licences) and appropriate USB reader

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC\_card" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC\_card</a> [wikipedia.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think DRM providers have to give a possibility to save DRM licences on some personal and secure carriers - for example , behaves like banks - most of us have debit cards - its unique and personal and checked in terminals what DRM providers have to do it just supply a registered user with SmartCard ( that stores your DRM licences ) and appropriate USB reader http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC \ _card [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think DRM providers have to give a possibility to save DRM licences on some personal and secure carriers - for example, behaves like banks - most of us have debit cards - its unique and personal and checked in terminals

what DRM providers have to do it just supply  a registered user with SmartCard (that stores your DRM licences) and appropriate USB reader

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC\_card [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233651</id>
	<title>Re:Start buying disk again?</title>
	<author>rapidmax</author>
	<datestamp>1244307480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So did I.</p><p>I just purchased four compact disks I've immediatly ripped into OGG Vorbis and put into the disk shelf, where the stay untouched. At least untouched until I look into the booklets for the song texts or need full quality to cut and edit.</p><p>This costs more than e.g. online store, but I've got a good backup. I do this only with a few artits/albums I really like very much. Single song or not so good one I just buy online (but without DRM).</p><p>~Andy</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So did I.I just purchased four compact disks I 've immediatly ripped into OGG Vorbis and put into the disk shelf , where the stay untouched .
At least untouched until I look into the booklets for the song texts or need full quality to cut and edit.This costs more than e.g .
online store , but I 've got a good backup .
I do this only with a few artits/albums I really like very much .
Single song or not so good one I just buy online ( but without DRM ) . ~ Andy</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So did I.I just purchased four compact disks I've immediatly ripped into OGG Vorbis and put into the disk shelf, where the stay untouched.
At least untouched until I look into the booklets for the song texts or need full quality to cut and edit.This costs more than e.g.
online store, but I've got a good backup.
I do this only with a few artits/albums I really like very much.
Single song or not so good one I just buy online (but without DRM).~Andy</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233319</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234827</id>
	<title>Yes, but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244316480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How many movies do you typically buy?<br>Would you buy them, if not to keep them?</p><p>Generally, if something only strikes my interest enough to watch once or twice, in the first 6 months, I go to blockbuster, and see it for a quarter the price. When I buy something, it's because I want to own it, and intend to keep it for a long time. Whether or not I do end up watching it again in the end, that's the purpose. If you invalidate that purpose by means of DRM, then you're going to kill that market very quickly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How many movies do you typically buy ? Would you buy them , if not to keep them ? Generally , if something only strikes my interest enough to watch once or twice , in the first 6 months , I go to blockbuster , and see it for a quarter the price .
When I buy something , it 's because I want to own it , and intend to keep it for a long time .
Whether or not I do end up watching it again in the end , that 's the purpose .
If you invalidate that purpose by means of DRM , then you 're going to kill that market very quickly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many movies do you typically buy?Would you buy them, if not to keep them?Generally, if something only strikes my interest enough to watch once or twice, in the first 6 months, I go to blockbuster, and see it for a quarter the price.
When I buy something, it's because I want to own it, and intend to keep it for a long time.
Whether or not I do end up watching it again in the end, that's the purpose.
If you invalidate that purpose by means of DRM, then you're going to kill that market very quickly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233403</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235157</id>
	<title>Boo Hoo!</title>
	<author>Franklin Brauner</author>
	<datestamp>1244318220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why is this effectively any different than the guy who can't watch his RCA Selectavision discs because no one manufactures the player anymore?  Hello?!  It's dead tech.  You lose for making a bad bet.  Buy a set of patch cables and port your crap over to your new system and suck up the generational loss like we ALL had to before the digital age.  Or, buy new stuff from a more reliable vendor.  Now, excuse me while I go listen to my 8-track!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is this effectively any different than the guy who ca n't watch his RCA Selectavision discs because no one manufactures the player anymore ?
Hello ? ! It 's dead tech .
You lose for making a bad bet .
Buy a set of patch cables and port your crap over to your new system and suck up the generational loss like we ALL had to before the digital age .
Or , buy new stuff from a more reliable vendor .
Now , excuse me while I go listen to my 8-track !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is this effectively any different than the guy who can't watch his RCA Selectavision discs because no one manufactures the player anymore?
Hello?!  It's dead tech.
You lose for making a bad bet.
Buy a set of patch cables and port your crap over to your new system and suck up the generational loss like we ALL had to before the digital age.
Or, buy new stuff from a more reliable vendor.
Now, excuse me while I go listen to my 8-track!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233609</id>
	<title>No electricity?</title>
	<author>davidwr</author>
	<datestamp>1244307120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Early phonographs and player pianos used non-electric power sources.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Early phonographs and player pianos used non-electric power sources .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Early phonographs and player pianos used non-electric power sources.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28237299</id>
	<title>Re:You've got three options</title>
	<author>Nakor BlueRider</author>
	<datestamp>1244290620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do agree, and always make an effort to pay for what I use, but it's not <i>just</i> about loss either, but also restrictions.  I want to be able to use my media on whatever computer and device I own.</p><p>Eventually I just quit buying anything with significant/restrictive DRM.  If I find something DRM-free I like I will always buy it that way.  Certainly no encrypted songs, ebooks, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do agree , and always make an effort to pay for what I use , but it 's not just about loss either , but also restrictions .
I want to be able to use my media on whatever computer and device I own.Eventually I just quit buying anything with significant/restrictive DRM .
If I find something DRM-free I like I will always buy it that way .
Certainly no encrypted songs , ebooks , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do agree, and always make an effort to pay for what I use, but it's not just about loss either, but also restrictions.
I want to be able to use my media on whatever computer and device I own.Eventually I just quit buying anything with significant/restrictive DRM.
If I find something DRM-free I like I will always buy it that way.
Certainly no encrypted songs, ebooks, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235205</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>Grishnakh</author>
	<datestamp>1244318460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Millions and millions of people think the music industry sells music at a reasonable price. Where do you think the music industry got all of its money? </i></p><p>Stupid kids spending their parents' money on Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus albums.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Millions and millions of people think the music industry sells music at a reasonable price .
Where do you think the music industry got all of its money ?
Stupid kids spending their parents ' money on Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus albums .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Millions and millions of people think the music industry sells music at a reasonable price.
Where do you think the music industry got all of its money?
Stupid kids spending their parents' money on Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus albums.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234381</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233749</id>
	<title>Re:Things you buy don't last forever</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244308080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This isn't right. If I buy a house, the bank keeps records of wether I am paying my mortgage, and if I stop they can have my right to remain in the house revoked. If the house "wears out" I have to repair it sure, just as if the data is corrupted somehow, I have to redownload it. But my right to stay on the land, or to play the music, should remain in tact.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't right .
If I buy a house , the bank keeps records of wether I am paying my mortgage , and if I stop they can have my right to remain in the house revoked .
If the house " wears out " I have to repair it sure , just as if the data is corrupted somehow , I have to redownload it .
But my right to stay on the land , or to play the music , should remain in tact .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't right.
If I buy a house, the bank keeps records of wether I am paying my mortgage, and if I stop they can have my right to remain in the house revoked.
If the house "wears out" I have to repair it sure, just as if the data is corrupted somehow, I have to redownload it.
But my right to stay on the land, or to play the music, should remain in tact.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233515</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28245815</id>
	<title>Re:Valve and Steam</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1244382900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>And at any rate, is there really any evidence we should believe such statements?</p></div></blockquote><p>

Is there any reason I should believe your statement? An element of trust is involved with any statement.<br> <br>

With Valve however it doesn't matter, if Valve doesn't cough up the code someone else will. I choose to trust Valve's statement but I have a second option just in case.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And at any rate , is there really any evidence we should believe such statements ?
Is there any reason I should believe your statement ?
An element of trust is involved with any statement .
With Valve however it does n't matter , if Valve does n't cough up the code someone else will .
I choose to trust Valve 's statement but I have a second option just in case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And at any rate, is there really any evidence we should believe such statements?
Is there any reason I should believe your statement?
An element of trust is involved with any statement.
With Valve however it doesn't matter, if Valve doesn't cough up the code someone else will.
I choose to trust Valve's statement but I have a second option just in case.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234505</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236201</id>
	<title>The UK specifically asked about this</title>
	<author>davecb</author>
	<datestamp>1244281080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Back in 2005, the U.K. parliament had a publ;ic consultation on DRM, specifically asking about this kind of
DRM  end-of-life.  My reply of 22 December 2005 follows:

<p>To the All Party Parliamentary Internet Group,
<br>re Digital Rights Management

</p><p>Gentlepersons,

</p><p>I am an author in a Commonwealth country, with recent experience in the
trade-offs in copyright law and the relevance of digital rights management to
publishing and can comment usefully on the subject.

</p><p>I was the coauthor of a technical book, "Using Samba", published in the United
States and Canada by O'Reilly and associates. Despite being made available
electronically for no cost, the book was the outstanding seller in its class,
and made me substantial royalties.

</p><p> <i>The History of "Using Samba"</i>

<br>This book was published without any form of explicit DRM, in a format suitable
for printing from personal computers, with no limitations on distribution of
personal printing, and with a license reserving only commercial printing
rights to the publisher.

</p><p>There was an implicit form of rights management, in that only commercial
printers have equipment capable of printing and binding on sufficiently thin
paper to make a manageable book: if printed on conventional photocopier paper,
the book is over three inches thick. Printing small sections for reference
on photocopier paper is perfectly practical, but large-scale printing is not.

</p><p>This effectively reinforced the reservations in the license: printing for
profit is both illegal and impractical, but personal printing, excerpting and
copying is unrestricted.

</p><p>The net result is that the book was widely used as a reference, and the
on-line readers bought the physical book for its more convenient form in great
numbers. O'Reilly has since published a non-trivial number of other books in
this manner.
</p><p>This experience allows me to speak to the questions the inquiry is interested
in:

</p><p> <i>1. Whether DRM distorts traditional trade-offs in copyright law</i>

</p><p>An explicit DRM scheme affecting the electronic copies of the book would have
negative value. It would in fact restrict the easy distribution of the book,
making it less popular and discouraging persons from depending on it. This
would lead directly to lessened sales of the printed book, and a reduction in
my and my publisher's income.

</p><p>Copying of the electronic form is encouraged by myself and the publisher, and
the printing, use and wide distribution of extracts is desirable, as it causes
sales of the entire work.

</p><p>The author's rights management of ordinary commercial copyright law protects
my publisher and I in countries which honor copyright.
In those where copyright does not exist or is ignored, the cost of publication
and shipping are such as to mitigate any counterfeiting printing attempts: the
counterfeiters cannot profit by shipping them outside of the country, and so
are limited in the damage they can do.

</p><p> <i>2. Whether new types of content sharing license (such as Creative Commons or
Copyleft) need legislation changes to be effective</i>

</p><p>Using Samba was successfully published under a free content license, under the
copyright regimes of the United States and Canada, without any required or
desired change in that law. I do not see a need for changes.

</p><p> <i>3. How copyright deposit libraries should deal with DRM issues</i>

</p><p>Copyright and other deposit libraries, such as the National Libraries of the
U.K., Canada and the United States should seek and retain unrestricted copies,
offering suitable statutory protection to the authors or publishers.

</p><p> <i>4. How consumers should be protected when DRM systems are discontinued</i>

</p><p>Upon the expiry of the copyright, the deposit libraries should make the
originals available for a nominal fee.

</p><p>Upon the failure or discontinuance of a DRM scheme, the publishers should
retain the option of republishing under a different scheme under ordinary
copyright law.
On cessation of publication, the co</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Back in 2005 , the U.K. parliament had a publ ; ic consultation on DRM , specifically asking about this kind of DRM end-of-life .
My reply of 22 December 2005 follows : To the All Party Parliamentary Internet Group , re Digital Rights Management Gentlepersons , I am an author in a Commonwealth country , with recent experience in the trade-offs in copyright law and the relevance of digital rights management to publishing and can comment usefully on the subject .
I was the coauthor of a technical book , " Using Samba " , published in the United States and Canada by O'Reilly and associates .
Despite being made available electronically for no cost , the book was the outstanding seller in its class , and made me substantial royalties .
The History of " Using Samba " This book was published without any form of explicit DRM , in a format suitable for printing from personal computers , with no limitations on distribution of personal printing , and with a license reserving only commercial printing rights to the publisher .
There was an implicit form of rights management , in that only commercial printers have equipment capable of printing and binding on sufficiently thin paper to make a manageable book : if printed on conventional photocopier paper , the book is over three inches thick .
Printing small sections for reference on photocopier paper is perfectly practical , but large-scale printing is not .
This effectively reinforced the reservations in the license : printing for profit is both illegal and impractical , but personal printing , excerpting and copying is unrestricted .
The net result is that the book was widely used as a reference , and the on-line readers bought the physical book for its more convenient form in great numbers .
O'Reilly has since published a non-trivial number of other books in this manner .
This experience allows me to speak to the questions the inquiry is interested in : 1 .
Whether DRM distorts traditional trade-offs in copyright law An explicit DRM scheme affecting the electronic copies of the book would have negative value .
It would in fact restrict the easy distribution of the book , making it less popular and discouraging persons from depending on it .
This would lead directly to lessened sales of the printed book , and a reduction in my and my publisher 's income .
Copying of the electronic form is encouraged by myself and the publisher , and the printing , use and wide distribution of extracts is desirable , as it causes sales of the entire work .
The author 's rights management of ordinary commercial copyright law protects my publisher and I in countries which honor copyright .
In those where copyright does not exist or is ignored , the cost of publication and shipping are such as to mitigate any counterfeiting printing attempts : the counterfeiters can not profit by shipping them outside of the country , and so are limited in the damage they can do .
2. Whether new types of content sharing license ( such as Creative Commons or Copyleft ) need legislation changes to be effective Using Samba was successfully published under a free content license , under the copyright regimes of the United States and Canada , without any required or desired change in that law .
I do not see a need for changes .
3. How copyright deposit libraries should deal with DRM issues Copyright and other deposit libraries , such as the National Libraries of the U.K. , Canada and the United States should seek and retain unrestricted copies , offering suitable statutory protection to the authors or publishers .
4. How consumers should be protected when DRM systems are discontinued Upon the expiry of the copyright , the deposit libraries should make the originals available for a nominal fee .
Upon the failure or discontinuance of a DRM scheme , the publishers should retain the option of republishing under a different scheme under ordinary copyright law .
On cessation of publication , the co</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Back in 2005, the U.K. parliament had a publ;ic consultation on DRM, specifically asking about this kind of
DRM  end-of-life.
My reply of 22 December 2005 follows:

To the All Party Parliamentary Internet Group,
re Digital Rights Management

Gentlepersons,

I am an author in a Commonwealth country, with recent experience in the
trade-offs in copyright law and the relevance of digital rights management to
publishing and can comment usefully on the subject.
I was the coauthor of a technical book, "Using Samba", published in the United
States and Canada by O'Reilly and associates.
Despite being made available
electronically for no cost, the book was the outstanding seller in its class,
and made me substantial royalties.
The History of "Using Samba"

This book was published without any form of explicit DRM, in a format suitable
for printing from personal computers, with no limitations on distribution of
personal printing, and with a license reserving only commercial printing
rights to the publisher.
There was an implicit form of rights management, in that only commercial
printers have equipment capable of printing and binding on sufficiently thin
paper to make a manageable book: if printed on conventional photocopier paper,
the book is over three inches thick.
Printing small sections for reference
on photocopier paper is perfectly practical, but large-scale printing is not.
This effectively reinforced the reservations in the license: printing for
profit is both illegal and impractical, but personal printing, excerpting and
copying is unrestricted.
The net result is that the book was widely used as a reference, and the
on-line readers bought the physical book for its more convenient form in great
numbers.
O'Reilly has since published a non-trivial number of other books in
this manner.
This experience allows me to speak to the questions the inquiry is interested
in:

 1.
Whether DRM distorts traditional trade-offs in copyright law

An explicit DRM scheme affecting the electronic copies of the book would have
negative value.
It would in fact restrict the easy distribution of the book,
making it less popular and discouraging persons from depending on it.
This
would lead directly to lessened sales of the printed book, and a reduction in
my and my publisher's income.
Copying of the electronic form is encouraged by myself and the publisher, and
the printing, use and wide distribution of extracts is desirable, as it causes
sales of the entire work.
The author's rights management of ordinary commercial copyright law protects
my publisher and I in countries which honor copyright.
In those where copyright does not exist or is ignored, the cost of publication
and shipping are such as to mitigate any counterfeiting printing attempts: the
counterfeiters cannot profit by shipping them outside of the country, and so
are limited in the damage they can do.
2. Whether new types of content sharing license (such as Creative Commons or
Copyleft) need legislation changes to be effective

Using Samba was successfully published under a free content license, under the
copyright regimes of the United States and Canada, without any required or
desired change in that law.
I do not see a need for changes.
3. How copyright deposit libraries should deal with DRM issues

Copyright and other deposit libraries, such as the National Libraries of the
U.K., Canada and the United States should seek and retain unrestricted copies,
offering suitable statutory protection to the authors or publishers.
4. How consumers should be protected when DRM systems are discontinued

Upon the expiry of the copyright, the deposit libraries should make the
originals available for a nominal fee.
Upon the failure or discontinuance of a DRM scheme, the publishers should
retain the option of republishing under a different scheme under ordinary
copyright law.
On cessation of publication, the co</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234829</id>
	<title>At least there should be a law to protect buyers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244316480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Governments need to pass a law that states anyone selling DRM based media should have a plan in place so, if they go out of business, people who bought something from them won't lose their purchases.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Governments need to pass a law that states anyone selling DRM based media should have a plan in place so , if they go out of business , people who bought something from them wo n't lose their purchases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Governments need to pass a law that states anyone selling DRM based media should have a plan in place so, if they go out of business, people who bought something from them won't lose their purchases.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235691</id>
	<title>Re:This is one of the most important drawbacks of</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1244321160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, they should be required, by law, to state prominently on the packaging, how long they plan to maintain the servers.  And it should be considered a binding contract.</p><p>I don't care what the terms of the contract are, so long as they're openly stated.  Everything has a value to me, including heavily drm'd music with no guarantee of longevity.  It's just that something like that I would only be willing to pay very little for.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , they should be required , by law , to state prominently on the packaging , how long they plan to maintain the servers .
And it should be considered a binding contract.I do n't care what the terms of the contract are , so long as they 're openly stated .
Everything has a value to me , including heavily drm 'd music with no guarantee of longevity .
It 's just that something like that I would only be willing to pay very little for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, they should be required, by law, to state prominently on the packaging, how long they plan to maintain the servers.
And it should be considered a binding contract.I don't care what the terms of the contract are, so long as they're openly stated.
Everything has a value to me, including heavily drm'd music with no guarantee of longevity.
It's just that something like that I would only be willing to pay very little for.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233589</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28243139</id>
	<title>Re:How about a deal?</title>
	<author>b4dc0d3r</author>
	<datestamp>1244404560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pretty sneaky.  If they want to use DRM, they have to basically say they believe people won't be able to break it.  Because giving up copyright protection means the only protection is DRM.</p><p>Then they'll say we can't do that because DRM is broken... so then we ask why have DRM at all?</p><p>The answer of course has nothing to do with protecting content, and has more to do with making you re-buy things in various formats instead of letting you format-shift.</p><p>Back them into a corner.  Of course it'll never happen, just nice to think about.</p><p>Captcha: retail</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pretty sneaky .
If they want to use DRM , they have to basically say they believe people wo n't be able to break it .
Because giving up copyright protection means the only protection is DRM.Then they 'll say we ca n't do that because DRM is broken... so then we ask why have DRM at all ? The answer of course has nothing to do with protecting content , and has more to do with making you re-buy things in various formats instead of letting you format-shift.Back them into a corner .
Of course it 'll never happen , just nice to think about.Captcha : retail</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pretty sneaky.
If they want to use DRM, they have to basically say they believe people won't be able to break it.
Because giving up copyright protection means the only protection is DRM.Then they'll say we can't do that because DRM is broken... so then we ask why have DRM at all?The answer of course has nothing to do with protecting content, and has more to do with making you re-buy things in various formats instead of letting you format-shift.Back them into a corner.
Of course it'll never happen, just nice to think about.Captcha: retail</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233803</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233497</id>
	<title>This is why it's important to crack DRM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244306460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is one of the reasons why we need DRM crackers.  To ensure our continued fair use of the media we purchase, irregardless of the antics of RIAA/MPAA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is one of the reasons why we need DRM crackers .
To ensure our continued fair use of the media we purchase , irregardless of the antics of RIAA/MPAA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is one of the reasons why we need DRM crackers.
To ensure our continued fair use of the media we purchase, irregardless of the antics of RIAA/MPAA.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236195</id>
	<title>Time to start buying discs again?</title>
	<author>Kevin108</author>
	<datestamp>1244281020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Absolutely not.  The solution for DRM is not other DRM.  Content creators must wrap their heads around but two facts:</p><p>
1.  Customers pay<br>
2.  Pirates don't
</p><p>When you make life difficult for your legitimate customers, they too will leave.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Absolutely not .
The solution for DRM is not other DRM .
Content creators must wrap their heads around but two facts : 1 .
Customers pay 2 .
Pirates do n't When you make life difficult for your legitimate customers , they too will leave .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Absolutely not.
The solution for DRM is not other DRM.
Content creators must wrap their heads around but two facts:
1.
Customers pay
2.
Pirates don't
When you make life difficult for your legitimate customers, they too will leave.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233803</id>
	<title>How about a deal?</title>
	<author>nightfire-unique</author>
	<datestamp>1244308320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you release your content in an encrypted/restricted format, you lose copyright protection.  You're taking matters into your own hands.  You're not benefiting society.</p><p>If you release your content in native format, you are afforded copyright protection.  Your works will enter the public domain (some day), and you are benefiting society.</p><p>Sounds fair to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you release your content in an encrypted/restricted format , you lose copyright protection .
You 're taking matters into your own hands .
You 're not benefiting society.If you release your content in native format , you are afforded copyright protection .
Your works will enter the public domain ( some day ) , and you are benefiting society.Sounds fair to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you release your content in an encrypted/restricted format, you lose copyright protection.
You're taking matters into your own hands.
You're not benefiting society.If you release your content in native format, you are afforded copyright protection.
Your works will enter the public domain (some day), and you are benefiting society.Sounds fair to me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235225</id>
	<title>Re:How about a deal?</title>
	<author>JayAEU</author>
	<datestamp>1244318580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's the best proposal I've heard in a long time!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the best proposal I 've heard in a long time !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the best proposal I've heard in a long time!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233803</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233795</id>
	<title>Re:Unlock content</title>
	<author>nine-times</author>
	<datestamp>1244308260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree.  As consumer protection, anyone selling DRM-encumbered content should have to put the means to crack that DRM into some kind of escrow which becomes publicly available on the event that they can no longer provide support for that DRM to their customers.
</p><p>Anyone failing to abide by these terms should not be allowed to use the word "buy" in their storefront or marketing.  If you don't get to keep it, you aren't "buying" it.  It's false advertising.
</p><p>I know someone here will take an even more hard-line attitude and say DRM itself should be illegal, which is fine.  I'm not going to argue with you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
As consumer protection , anyone selling DRM-encumbered content should have to put the means to crack that DRM into some kind of escrow which becomes publicly available on the event that they can no longer provide support for that DRM to their customers .
Anyone failing to abide by these terms should not be allowed to use the word " buy " in their storefront or marketing .
If you do n't get to keep it , you are n't " buying " it .
It 's false advertising .
I know someone here will take an even more hard-line attitude and say DRM itself should be illegal , which is fine .
I 'm not going to argue with you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
As consumer protection, anyone selling DRM-encumbered content should have to put the means to crack that DRM into some kind of escrow which becomes publicly available on the event that they can no longer provide support for that DRM to their customers.
Anyone failing to abide by these terms should not be allowed to use the word "buy" in their storefront or marketing.
If you don't get to keep it, you aren't "buying" it.
It's false advertising.
I know someone here will take an even more hard-line attitude and say DRM itself should be illegal, which is fine.
I'm not going to argue with you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233479</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233649</id>
	<title>Won't be a good /. article without MS bashing</title>
	<author>olivier69</author>
	<datestamp>1244307420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The question also came up when MSN Music stopped... <br>
<a href="http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/23/microsoft-turns-the-drm-screw-on-msn-music-owners/" title="engadget.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/23/microsoft-turns-the-drm-screw-on-msn-music-owners/</a> [engadget.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>The question also came up when MSN Music stopped.. . http : //www.engadget.com/2008/04/23/microsoft-turns-the-drm-screw-on-msn-music-owners/ [ engadget.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The question also came up when MSN Music stopped... 
http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/23/microsoft-turns-the-drm-screw-on-msn-music-owners/ [engadget.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233785</id>
	<title>Valve and Steam</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244308260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I believe Valve said that they would link a chunk of code that would unlock all your Steam purchases if they ever went out of business.<br>At least, the ones that they own.  Others would be a question of whether the developers would want it to be unlocked.</p><p>And even saying this, the chances of Steam failing or Valve falling is unlikely since that model has been pretty successful for them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe Valve said that they would link a chunk of code that would unlock all your Steam purchases if they ever went out of business.At least , the ones that they own .
Others would be a question of whether the developers would want it to be unlocked.And even saying this , the chances of Steam failing or Valve falling is unlikely since that model has been pretty successful for them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe Valve said that they would link a chunk of code that would unlock all your Steam purchases if they ever went out of business.At least, the ones that they own.
Others would be a question of whether the developers would want it to be unlocked.And even saying this, the chances of Steam failing or Valve falling is unlikely since that model has been pretty successful for them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236783</id>
	<title>The problem with HDGiants...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244285640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem with HDGiants was that the idea of lossless music and video downloads was poorly executed. There was no easy way to access their whole library. They had two ways to get their music. You could email them, and tell them what you want in your collection, which is kind of a hassle. They also had generalized collections for each genre and decade. It is ALWAYS a bad idea to generalize music tastes. <i>Especially</i> 80s pop rock.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with HDGiants was that the idea of lossless music and video downloads was poorly executed .
There was no easy way to access their whole library .
They had two ways to get their music .
You could email them , and tell them what you want in your collection , which is kind of a hassle .
They also had generalized collections for each genre and decade .
It is ALWAYS a bad idea to generalize music tastes .
Especially 80s pop rock .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with HDGiants was that the idea of lossless music and video downloads was poorly executed.
There was no easy way to access their whole library.
They had two ways to get their music.
You could email them, and tell them what you want in your collection, which is kind of a hassle.
They also had generalized collections for each genre and decade.
It is ALWAYS a bad idea to generalize music tastes.
Especially 80s pop rock.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233757</id>
	<title>its not just about vendor going 'away'</title>
	<author>TheGratefulNet</author>
	<datestamp>1244308080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>its also about your motherboard going away.</p><p>think 'tivo'.</p><p>twice I've had a tivo die on me.  and twice, you are not legally allowed to get your (possibly unseen, definitely paid for!) movies seen or copied over.</p><p>when my final tivo died, I gave some thought to fixing it and trying to hack the drives.  I also thought about continuing my directv sub but thought about NOT wanting to repeat this all over again, so I cancelled my pay tv sub.  I no longer have a sat tv feed (or cable) anymore.</p><p>DRM is bad and when it works, its somewhat acceptable; but when it stops working, you're screwed.</p><p>lesson learned.  no more proprietary tivo boxes for me.  not anymore.</p><p>no more pay tv?  so be it.  I can live without out!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>its also about your motherboard going away.think 'tivo'.twice I 've had a tivo die on me .
and twice , you are not legally allowed to get your ( possibly unseen , definitely paid for !
) movies seen or copied over.when my final tivo died , I gave some thought to fixing it and trying to hack the drives .
I also thought about continuing my directv sub but thought about NOT wanting to repeat this all over again , so I cancelled my pay tv sub .
I no longer have a sat tv feed ( or cable ) anymore.DRM is bad and when it works , its somewhat acceptable ; but when it stops working , you 're screwed.lesson learned .
no more proprietary tivo boxes for me .
not anymore.no more pay tv ?
so be it .
I can live without out !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>its also about your motherboard going away.think 'tivo'.twice I've had a tivo die on me.
and twice, you are not legally allowed to get your (possibly unseen, definitely paid for!
) movies seen or copied over.when my final tivo died, I gave some thought to fixing it and trying to hack the drives.
I also thought about continuing my directv sub but thought about NOT wanting to repeat this all over again, so I cancelled my pay tv sub.
I no longer have a sat tv feed (or cable) anymore.DRM is bad and when it works, its somewhat acceptable; but when it stops working, you're screwed.lesson learned.
no more proprietary tivo boxes for me.
not anymore.no more pay tv?
so be it.
I can live without out!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235773</id>
	<title>Re:How about a deal?</title>
	<author>DaveV1.0</author>
	<datestamp>1244321760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would only support this if violating copyright was criminalized. Otherwise, law only penalizes people who try to protect their copyright. For what you suggest to be fair, the law also has to have an incentive to <b>not</b> violate the copyright of the ones that don't use DRM.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would only support this if violating copyright was criminalized .
Otherwise , law only penalizes people who try to protect their copyright .
For what you suggest to be fair , the law also has to have an incentive to not violate the copyright of the ones that do n't use DRM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would only support this if violating copyright was criminalized.
Otherwise, law only penalizes people who try to protect their copyright.
For what you suggest to be fair, the law also has to have an incentive to not violate the copyright of the ones that don't use DRM.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233803</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234381</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>jlarocco</author>
	<datestamp>1244312640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If the media industry had caught on the track earlier and offered music at a reasonable price without any crippling DRM they would have been better off in sales. There are people willing to pay for it, if they can get it. Going torrent works for some, but some of us wants a reliable and legal source for our media.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Millions and millions of people think the music industry sells music at a reasonable price.  Where do you think the music industry got all of its money?
</p><p>
If you don't think the price is reasonable, then don't buy it and wait till it plays on the radio or something.  The world doesn't revolve around you.  You don't get to set the price at which other people sell their stuff.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the media industry had caught on the track earlier and offered music at a reasonable price without any crippling DRM they would have been better off in sales .
There are people willing to pay for it , if they can get it .
Going torrent works for some , but some of us wants a reliable and legal source for our media .
Millions and millions of people think the music industry sells music at a reasonable price .
Where do you think the music industry got all of its money ?
If you do n't think the price is reasonable , then do n't buy it and wait till it plays on the radio or something .
The world does n't revolve around you .
You do n't get to set the price at which other people sell their stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the media industry had caught on the track earlier and offered music at a reasonable price without any crippling DRM they would have been better off in sales.
There are people willing to pay for it, if they can get it.
Going torrent works for some, but some of us wants a reliable and legal source for our media.
Millions and millions of people think the music industry sells music at a reasonable price.
Where do you think the music industry got all of its money?
If you don't think the price is reasonable, then don't buy it and wait till it plays on the radio or something.
The world doesn't revolve around you.
You don't get to set the price at which other people sell their stuff.

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234013</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236797</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1244285760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just boycott the shit.  Problem solved.  Serious, just don't buy it.  I don't.  Organize a boycott.  Someone with popularity and charisma start a campaign.  Start educating the ignorant masses that they are being raped, and that the rape will never end.</p><p>Those of you who see what is going on - what are you doing about it?  Do you buy STEAM, iTunes, and all the rest of the DRM's crapola out there?  If so, YOU ARE the problem.  Do you email, write, or phone the companies responsible to bitch and bellyache every time something doesn't work the way you want it to?  If not, YOU ARE the problem.</p><p>It certainly isn't fair that some of you give your money to the rapists, then come to forums like this to whine about how unfair it is.  Don't unload on slashdot, or the myriad of other forums where people vent.  Call the bastards who sold you garbage, and bitch.  And, stop giving them your money.  Why on earth do you give a man money, so that he can sit beside the pool at his mansion with his buddies, dreaming up new ways to rip you off, while the maid fetches another round of drinks?</p><p>Boycott all of them.  MPAA, RIAA, all of them.  Don't buy ANYTHING that has DRM.</p><p>Write your congressman, write your senator, write the White House.  I have fired off no less than three emails to Obama regarding "digital rights" since he was elected.  If 200 million more Americans were to do the same, we would get his attention.  Hell, if only 10 million Americans flooded his mail box with concerns over DRM and other infringements on our rights, he would have to take notice.</p><p>Start talking and acting to break the monopolies that RIAA and freinds have.  Stop bitching.  Stop sending them your money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just boycott the shit .
Problem solved .
Serious , just do n't buy it .
I do n't .
Organize a boycott .
Someone with popularity and charisma start a campaign .
Start educating the ignorant masses that they are being raped , and that the rape will never end.Those of you who see what is going on - what are you doing about it ?
Do you buy STEAM , iTunes , and all the rest of the DRM 's crapola out there ?
If so , YOU ARE the problem .
Do you email , write , or phone the companies responsible to bitch and bellyache every time something does n't work the way you want it to ?
If not , YOU ARE the problem.It certainly is n't fair that some of you give your money to the rapists , then come to forums like this to whine about how unfair it is .
Do n't unload on slashdot , or the myriad of other forums where people vent .
Call the bastards who sold you garbage , and bitch .
And , stop giving them your money .
Why on earth do you give a man money , so that he can sit beside the pool at his mansion with his buddies , dreaming up new ways to rip you off , while the maid fetches another round of drinks ? Boycott all of them .
MPAA , RIAA , all of them .
Do n't buy ANYTHING that has DRM.Write your congressman , write your senator , write the White House .
I have fired off no less than three emails to Obama regarding " digital rights " since he was elected .
If 200 million more Americans were to do the same , we would get his attention .
Hell , if only 10 million Americans flooded his mail box with concerns over DRM and other infringements on our rights , he would have to take notice.Start talking and acting to break the monopolies that RIAA and freinds have .
Stop bitching .
Stop sending them your money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just boycott the shit.
Problem solved.
Serious, just don't buy it.
I don't.
Organize a boycott.
Someone with popularity and charisma start a campaign.
Start educating the ignorant masses that they are being raped, and that the rape will never end.Those of you who see what is going on - what are you doing about it?
Do you buy STEAM, iTunes, and all the rest of the DRM's crapola out there?
If so, YOU ARE the problem.
Do you email, write, or phone the companies responsible to bitch and bellyache every time something doesn't work the way you want it to?
If not, YOU ARE the problem.It certainly isn't fair that some of you give your money to the rapists, then come to forums like this to whine about how unfair it is.
Don't unload on slashdot, or the myriad of other forums where people vent.
Call the bastards who sold you garbage, and bitch.
And, stop giving them your money.
Why on earth do you give a man money, so that he can sit beside the pool at his mansion with his buddies, dreaming up new ways to rip you off, while the maid fetches another round of drinks?Boycott all of them.
MPAA, RIAA, all of them.
Don't buy ANYTHING that has DRM.Write your congressman, write your senator, write the White House.
I have fired off no less than three emails to Obama regarding "digital rights" since he was elected.
If 200 million more Americans were to do the same, we would get his attention.
Hell, if only 10 million Americans flooded his mail box with concerns over DRM and other infringements on our rights, he would have to take notice.Start talking and acting to break the monopolies that RIAA and freinds have.
Stop bitching.
Stop sending them your money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233991</id>
	<title>I'd quote you...</title>
	<author>slack\_justyb</author>
	<datestamp>1244309580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...something from my favourite book, "Harry Potter and the Dead Horse."  But I can't it's DRMed.
<br> <br>
Seriously, haven't we covered this topic to death?  I think new methods of DRM are more news worthy than say an article highlighting the pitfalls of DRM.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...something from my favourite book , " Harry Potter and the Dead Horse .
" But I ca n't it 's DRMed .
Seriously , have n't we covered this topic to death ?
I think new methods of DRM are more news worthy than say an article highlighting the pitfalls of DRM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...something from my favourite book, "Harry Potter and the Dead Horse.
"  But I can't it's DRMed.
Seriously, haven't we covered this topic to death?
I think new methods of DRM are more news worthy than say an article highlighting the pitfalls of DRM.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234097</id>
	<title>Re:Things you buy don't last forever</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244310420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's fine, I can live with that as long as the media companies can live with their copyright not lasting almost forever either. Wanna bet on whether they will agree?</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's fine , I can live with that as long as the media companies can live with their copyright not lasting almost forever either .
Wan na bet on whether they will agree ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's fine, I can live with that as long as the media companies can live with their copyright not lasting almost forever either.
Wanna bet on whether they will agree?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233515</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28238565</id>
	<title>Re:Valve and Steam</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244303280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>And even saying this, the chances of Steam failing or Valve falling is unlikely since that model has been pretty successful for them.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Yeah.   Failure's unlikely.   Valve's one of those enduring names that'll stand the test of centuries.  Not like those silly little flash-in-the-pan names like Bear Stearns,  Chrysler, Lehman, General Motors...
</p><p>
Perhaps I could interest you in a sock puppet from pets.com; I'll put it in with your next order of groceries from Webvan.  (The chances of Pets.com failing or Webvan.com failing are unlikely since that model has been pretty successful for Amazon.com)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And even saying this , the chances of Steam failing or Valve falling is unlikely since that model has been pretty successful for them .
Yeah. Failure 's unlikely .
Valve 's one of those enduring names that 'll stand the test of centuries .
Not like those silly little flash-in-the-pan names like Bear Stearns , Chrysler , Lehman , General Motors.. . Perhaps I could interest you in a sock puppet from pets.com ; I 'll put it in with your next order of groceries from Webvan .
( The chances of Pets.com failing or Webvan.com failing are unlikely since that model has been pretty successful for Amazon.com )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And even saying this, the chances of Steam failing or Valve falling is unlikely since that model has been pretty successful for them.
Yeah.   Failure's unlikely.
Valve's one of those enduring names that'll stand the test of centuries.
Not like those silly little flash-in-the-pan names like Bear Stearns,  Chrysler, Lehman, General Motors...

Perhaps I could interest you in a sock puppet from pets.com; I'll put it in with your next order of groceries from Webvan.
(The chances of Pets.com failing or Webvan.com failing are unlikely since that model has been pretty successful for Amazon.com)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233785</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235655</id>
	<title>Outlaw DRM?</title>
	<author>DaveV1.0</author>
	<datestamp>1244320980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I will support outlawing DRM just as soon as the many slashdotters out there support criminalizing violating copyright.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I will support outlawing DRM just as soon as the many slashdotters out there support criminalizing violating copyright .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I will support outlawing DRM just as soon as the many slashdotters out there support criminalizing violating copyright.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236709</id>
	<title>DRM is a "capitalistic malware infestation"!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244285040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I encourage everyone to refer to DRM as a capitalistic malware infection (infestation). To those of you who say "they are obligated to allow us to use the media if they go bankrupt", I say this:</p><p>Have you seen that legal disclaimer on products which states that the manufacturer is only obligated to provide a working product for 90 (ninety) days?</p><p>Thus, DRM is a malware infestation designed to insure that you have to purchase the same content over and over again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I encourage everyone to refer to DRM as a capitalistic malware infection ( infestation ) .
To those of you who say " they are obligated to allow us to use the media if they go bankrupt " , I say this : Have you seen that legal disclaimer on products which states that the manufacturer is only obligated to provide a working product for 90 ( ninety ) days ? Thus , DRM is a malware infestation designed to insure that you have to purchase the same content over and over again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I encourage everyone to refer to DRM as a capitalistic malware infection (infestation).
To those of you who say "they are obligated to allow us to use the media if they go bankrupt", I say this:Have you seen that legal disclaimer on products which states that the manufacturer is only obligated to provide a working product for 90 (ninety) days?Thus, DRM is a malware infestation designed to insure that you have to purchase the same content over and over again.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28240845</id>
	<title>Demand DRM Escrow Services, or lose the DRM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244384340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A thrid party DRM escrow service should be required for any vendor that sales DRM contant to the general public. This could be similar to the software escrow service providers that keep programming source code for customers of the programm creators just in case they go out of busines, etc.  In fact the same companies that are providing source code escrow services should already be in the DRM escrow business unless they have already done the numbers and know it to be a dyig market.</p><p>They already have the software escrow process down, it would be realatively easy to port it a DRM escrow serive.  So customers should demand their DRM content providers prove they have a DRM escrow service, drop DRM on their provided content, or just lose you as a customer.</p><p>In free makets the customer is always right.  I wont by content without media or the ablilty to port it for my personal use.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A thrid party DRM escrow service should be required for any vendor that sales DRM contant to the general public .
This could be similar to the software escrow service providers that keep programming source code for customers of the programm creators just in case they go out of busines , etc .
In fact the same companies that are providing source code escrow services should already be in the DRM escrow business unless they have already done the numbers and know it to be a dyig market.They already have the software escrow process down , it would be realatively easy to port it a DRM escrow serive .
So customers should demand their DRM content providers prove they have a DRM escrow service , drop DRM on their provided content , or just lose you as a customer.In free makets the customer is always right .
I wont by content without media or the ablilty to port it for my personal use .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>A thrid party DRM escrow service should be required for any vendor that sales DRM contant to the general public.
This could be similar to the software escrow service providers that keep programming source code for customers of the programm creators just in case they go out of busines, etc.
In fact the same companies that are providing source code escrow services should already be in the DRM escrow business unless they have already done the numbers and know it to be a dyig market.They already have the software escrow process down, it would be realatively easy to port it a DRM escrow serive.
So customers should demand their DRM content providers prove they have a DRM escrow service, drop DRM on their provided content, or just lose you as a customer.In free makets the customer is always right.
I wont by content without media or the ablilty to port it for my personal use.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234653</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe...</title>
	<author>basementman</author>
	<datestamp>1244314800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I always thought just saying "your business model sucks" was kind of a cop out. Look if their business model makes them enough money to stay afloat more power to them. If it doesn't and they die, that's just tough luck. You can't blame the business model on everything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I always thought just saying " your business model sucks " was kind of a cop out .
Look if their business model makes them enough money to stay afloat more power to them .
If it does n't and they die , that 's just tough luck .
You ca n't blame the business model on everything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I always thought just saying "your business model sucks" was kind of a cop out.
Look if their business model makes them enough money to stay afloat more power to them.
If it doesn't and they die, that's just tough luck.
You can't blame the business model on everything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233433</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234909</id>
	<title>Re:On the other hand...</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1244317020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>On the other hand, if what you "bought" was shallow crap that you will have lost interest in in six months, who cares if the DRM servers shut down after a year?</p></div></blockquote><p>Anyone who wants to resale the item to someone else who <i>is</i> interested in it.

</p><p>(and please try to put a summary of your post in the subject, rather than just the beginning of the first sentence; thanks)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>On the other hand , if what you " bought " was shallow crap that you will have lost interest in in six months , who cares if the DRM servers shut down after a year ? Anyone who wants to resale the item to someone else who is interested in it .
( and please try to put a summary of your post in the subject , rather than just the beginning of the first sentence ; thanks )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the other hand, if what you "bought" was shallow crap that you will have lost interest in in six months, who cares if the DRM servers shut down after a year?Anyone who wants to resale the item to someone else who is interested in it.
(and please try to put a summary of your post in the subject, rather than just the beginning of the first sentence; thanks)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233403</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28241325</id>
	<title>Jail Time</title>
	<author>hicksw</author>
	<datestamp>1244390040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Make the directors of the failing content company responsible in criminal law for your loss of use due to DRM.  We could even think up a technical decription of the crime.  Something like THEFT.  Unlike copytright violation, they DO deprive you of the use of the content.</p><p>Appealing, but more complex and harder to make work: stick every part of the distribution chain for the loss. Hard to attribute in case of a failure, but it might get Walmart thinking about even stocking anything with DRM.</p><p>And, while we are dreaming, repeal DMCA, too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Make the directors of the failing content company responsible in criminal law for your loss of use due to DRM .
We could even think up a technical decription of the crime .
Something like THEFT .
Unlike copytright violation , they DO deprive you of the use of the content.Appealing , but more complex and harder to make work : stick every part of the distribution chain for the loss .
Hard to attribute in case of a failure , but it might get Walmart thinking about even stocking anything with DRM.And , while we are dreaming , repeal DMCA , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make the directors of the failing content company responsible in criminal law for your loss of use due to DRM.
We could even think up a technical decription of the crime.
Something like THEFT.
Unlike copytright violation, they DO deprive you of the use of the content.Appealing, but more complex and harder to make work: stick every part of the distribution chain for the loss.
Hard to attribute in case of a failure, but it might get Walmart thinking about even stocking anything with DRM.And, while we are dreaming, repeal DMCA, too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234009</id>
	<title>Re:How many times have you bought the same cd?</title>
	<author>mister\_playboy</author>
	<datestamp>1244309760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Time to bust out the pipe organ... one old enough not to have any electrical parts anyway.</p><p>I'm a metal head, but I have to agree that the organ is nicknamed the "King of Instruments" for a good reason.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Time to bust out the pipe organ... one old enough not to have any electrical parts anyway.I 'm a metal head , but I have to agree that the organ is nicknamed the " King of Instruments " for a good reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Time to bust out the pipe organ... one old enough not to have any electrical parts anyway.I'm a metal head, but I have to agree that the organ is nicknamed the "King of Instruments" for a good reason.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234361</id>
	<title>Re:How many times have you bought the same cd?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244312460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What happens when electricity is not available?</p></div><p>...It is nighttime, and you are out of candles? <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braille\_music" title="wikipedia.org">Braille music</a> [wikipedia.org]!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What happens when electricity is not available ? ...It is nighttime , and you are out of candles ?
Braille music [ wikipedia.org ] !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What happens when electricity is not available?...It is nighttime, and you are out of candles?
Braille music [wikipedia.org]!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233555</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233481</id>
	<title>Plain old WYSIWIG...</title>
	<author>K. S. Kyosuke</author>
	<datestamp>1244306400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As in "What You Shop Is What You Get".</htmltext>
<tokenext>As in " What You Shop Is What You Get " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As in "What You Shop Is What You Get".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233293</id>
	<title>Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244305440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First Post!</p><p>And I'm sure this is the first article to raise this objection!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First Post ! And I 'm sure this is the first article to raise this objection !
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First Post!And I'm sure this is the first article to raise this objection!
:-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235187</id>
	<title>Re:Things you buy don't last forever</title>
	<author>JayAEU</author>
	<datestamp>1244318400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>almost nothing you buy lasts forever, so your right to listen to (or watch) what you download should not last forever.</p></div><p>Well, then it's time those companies took a long hard look at all the records, CDs and DVDs people bought before DRM was introduced, dating back some 50 years in not so rare cases. Those media were advertised to last at least 10 to 20 years, most of them do longer by far.</p><p>If "nothing lasts forever" is the new tune the publishers are singing, that's fine, as long as prices drop considerably to reflect the newly degraded longevity of said media. You can't expect people to pay the same high prices and ask them to accept an inferior product without your sales figures plummeting.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>almost nothing you buy lasts forever , so your right to listen to ( or watch ) what you download should not last forever.Well , then it 's time those companies took a long hard look at all the records , CDs and DVDs people bought before DRM was introduced , dating back some 50 years in not so rare cases .
Those media were advertised to last at least 10 to 20 years , most of them do longer by far.If " nothing lasts forever " is the new tune the publishers are singing , that 's fine , as long as prices drop considerably to reflect the newly degraded longevity of said media .
You ca n't expect people to pay the same high prices and ask them to accept an inferior product without your sales figures plummeting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>almost nothing you buy lasts forever, so your right to listen to (or watch) what you download should not last forever.Well, then it's time those companies took a long hard look at all the records, CDs and DVDs people bought before DRM was introduced, dating back some 50 years in not so rare cases.
Those media were advertised to last at least 10 to 20 years, most of them do longer by far.If "nothing lasts forever" is the new tune the publishers are singing, that's fine, as long as prices drop considerably to reflect the newly degraded longevity of said media.
You can't expect people to pay the same high prices and ask them to accept an inferior product without your sales figures plummeting.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233515</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234165</id>
	<title>No anti-DRM incentive</title>
	<author>proton</author>
	<datestamp>1244311200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Today there is no incentive to get rid of DRM (if you listen to RIAA/MPAA).</p><p>If you go bankrupt there is no incentive to incur extra costs to disable the DRM on media that your former customers purchased.</p><p>And there is no legal ramification for not doing it either.</p><p>With time being infinite, the chance of a company going bankrupt is also infinite. Thus the chance of your DRM media paper-weight'ing over time is infinite.</p><p>Good luck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Today there is no incentive to get rid of DRM ( if you listen to RIAA/MPAA ) .If you go bankrupt there is no incentive to incur extra costs to disable the DRM on media that your former customers purchased.And there is no legal ramification for not doing it either.With time being infinite , the chance of a company going bankrupt is also infinite .
Thus the chance of your DRM media paper-weight'ing over time is infinite.Good luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Today there is no incentive to get rid of DRM (if you listen to RIAA/MPAA).If you go bankrupt there is no incentive to incur extra costs to disable the DRM on media that your former customers purchased.And there is no legal ramification for not doing it either.With time being infinite, the chance of a company going bankrupt is also infinite.
Thus the chance of your DRM media paper-weight'ing over time is infinite.Good luck.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234423</id>
	<title>Re:Unlock content</title>
	<author>Blue Stone</author>
	<datestamp>1244313000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;There should be some legislation that either forces companies to unlock your DRM'd content or give you back the money.</p><p>better idea - 'buyer beware': you buy DRMed stuff, be aware you can get hosed.</p><p>Result: nobody buys DRM stuff and it dies out. better to stamp it out than encourage it with 'rescue' legislation.</p><p>Translation: Buy DRM and suffer the consequences.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; There should be some legislation that either forces companies to unlock your DRM 'd content or give you back the money.better idea - 'buyer beware ' : you buy DRMed stuff , be aware you can get hosed.Result : nobody buys DRM stuff and it dies out .
better to stamp it out than encourage it with 'rescue ' legislation.Translation : Buy DRM and suffer the consequences .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;There should be some legislation that either forces companies to unlock your DRM'd content or give you back the money.better idea - 'buyer beware': you buy DRMed stuff, be aware you can get hosed.Result: nobody buys DRM stuff and it dies out.
better to stamp it out than encourage it with 'rescue' legislation.Translation: Buy DRM and suffer the consequences.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233479</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28237025</id>
	<title>Re:Whose?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244287980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I don't know whether my daughter in the future would like to have a copy of Lipps Inc. "Funkytown"</p></div><p>You know, I think that at some point you've gotta move on.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know whether my daughter in the future would like to have a copy of Lipps Inc. " Funkytown " You know , I think that at some point you 've got ta move on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know whether my daughter in the future would like to have a copy of Lipps Inc. "Funkytown"You know, I think that at some point you've gotta move on.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233807</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235007</id>
	<title>Re:Things you buy don't last forever</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244317500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think the most important factor is who maintains the products. If one is really concerned about his/her product lasting a good deal of time, he/she will purchase (physical) products with long warranties, so that the responsibility of maintenance rests on the shoulders of the manufacturer. Similarly, if one were to license the "authorization" to download a set of data repeatedly, that would qualify as paying for a service/maintenance plan. However, if one downloads the data (or purchases the CD/DVD) once, and maintains it himself, then it ought to be his to keep for as long as he can maintain it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the most important factor is who maintains the products .
If one is really concerned about his/her product lasting a good deal of time , he/she will purchase ( physical ) products with long warranties , so that the responsibility of maintenance rests on the shoulders of the manufacturer .
Similarly , if one were to license the " authorization " to download a set of data repeatedly , that would qualify as paying for a service/maintenance plan .
However , if one downloads the data ( or purchases the CD/DVD ) once , and maintains it himself , then it ought to be his to keep for as long as he can maintain it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the most important factor is who maintains the products.
If one is really concerned about his/her product lasting a good deal of time, he/she will purchase (physical) products with long warranties, so that the responsibility of maintenance rests on the shoulders of the manufacturer.
Similarly, if one were to license the "authorization" to download a set of data repeatedly, that would qualify as paying for a service/maintenance plan.
However, if one downloads the data (or purchases the CD/DVD) once, and maintains it himself, then it ought to be his to keep for as long as he can maintain it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233515</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28237317</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>interkin3tic</author>
	<datestamp>1244290860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Stupid kids spending their parents' money on Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus albums.</p></div><p>I spend my OWN money on those catchy songs, you insensitive clod!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Stupid kids spending their parents ' money on Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus albums.I spend my OWN money on those catchy songs , you insensitive clod !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stupid kids spending their parents' money on Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus albums.I spend my OWN money on those catchy songs, you insensitive clod!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235205</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28239373</id>
	<title>Re:XKCD</title>
	<author>cffrost</author>
	<datestamp>1244314440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://xkcd.com/488/" title="xkcd.com" rel="nofollow">http://xkcd.com/488/</a> [xkcd.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //xkcd.com/488/ [ xkcd.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://xkcd.com/488/ [xkcd.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28242439</id>
	<title>Re:How about a deal?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244399340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This has got to be one of the better solutions I've seen in a long time.  Squarely deals with the issue and still lets copyright stand.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This has got to be one of the better solutions I 've seen in a long time .
Squarely deals with the issue and still lets copyright stand .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has got to be one of the better solutions I've seen in a long time.
Squarely deals with the issue and still lets copyright stand.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233803</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233403</id>
	<title>On the other hand...</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1244305920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...if what you "bought" was shallow crap that you will have lost interest in in six months, who cares if the DRM servers shut down after a year?  And that describes 99\% of the market.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...if what you " bought " was shallow crap that you will have lost interest in in six months , who cares if the DRM servers shut down after a year ?
And that describes 99 \ % of the market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...if what you "bought" was shallow crap that you will have lost interest in in six months, who cares if the DRM servers shut down after a year?
And that describes 99\% of the market.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235653</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>cp.tar</author>
	<datestamp>1244320980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>iTunes was there first. And it seems only a minority of users had problems with iTunes' DRM, so they had no reason to switch and re-purchase all their music.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>iTunes was there first .
And it seems only a minority of users had problems with iTunes ' DRM , so they had no reason to switch and re-purchase all their music .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>iTunes was there first.
And it seems only a minority of users had problems with iTunes' DRM, so they had no reason to switch and re-purchase all their music.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235059</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234393</id>
	<title>You've got three options</title>
	<author>petrus4</author>
	<datestamp>1244312700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>a)  Buy it digitally again, but if you can, make sure it is a copy that is<br>clean in DRM terms.</p><p>b)  Buy a hard copy.  For anything I buy, this is always my approach.  A<br>physical copy of something has a much higher chance of lasting years, or more<br>or less indefinitely if I keep it and am able to back it up.  I don't do the<br>micropayment for digital downloads thing, and most likely never will.  I'm not<br>paying tangible funds for something that could get lost in a power surge.<br>Hard copies are a little more durable, especially if, as I said, they're<br>backed up.</p><p>c)  If you want to go the digital route, and a) isn't possible, pirate it.<br>Although I don't have huge moral problems with piracy, (as I generally feel<br>that, on balance, most content producers will generally at least break even on<br>any given pirated work, and usually make a large profit, even with piracy) my<br>general policy is that if I like something enough to really seek it out, I<br>will generally like it enough to buy a physical copy from Amazon and give the<br>artist something for their trouble.  If it is an artist who I like a lot, and<br>who I'd conceivably buy from often, (such as Shpongle, if I had more money)<br>I'd possibly even write to the artist and ask them if they could make their<br>wares available from their own site, so that I could be sure that the lion's<br>share of my money was going directly to them, where I intend it to go.</p><p>In some cases (old/obscure stuff) piracy is going to be your only option, as<br>you may not be able to find the work via retail channels; however again, if<br>the work in question is something you really value, use piracy as a last<br>resort.  If a creative person produces something which enriches your life,<br>then in my opinion they deserve to be paid for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>a ) Buy it digitally again , but if you can , make sure it is a copy that isclean in DRM terms.b ) Buy a hard copy .
For anything I buy , this is always my approach .
Aphysical copy of something has a much higher chance of lasting years , or moreor less indefinitely if I keep it and am able to back it up .
I do n't do themicropayment for digital downloads thing , and most likely never will .
I 'm notpaying tangible funds for something that could get lost in a power surge.Hard copies are a little more durable , especially if , as I said , they'rebacked up.c ) If you want to go the digital route , and a ) is n't possible , pirate it.Although I do n't have huge moral problems with piracy , ( as I generally feelthat , on balance , most content producers will generally at least break even onany given pirated work , and usually make a large profit , even with piracy ) mygeneral policy is that if I like something enough to really seek it out , Iwill generally like it enough to buy a physical copy from Amazon and give theartist something for their trouble .
If it is an artist who I like a lot , andwho I 'd conceivably buy from often , ( such as Shpongle , if I had more money ) I 'd possibly even write to the artist and ask them if they could make theirwares available from their own site , so that I could be sure that the lion'sshare of my money was going directly to them , where I intend it to go.In some cases ( old/obscure stuff ) piracy is going to be your only option , asyou may not be able to find the work via retail channels ; however again , ifthe work in question is something you really value , use piracy as a lastresort .
If a creative person produces something which enriches your life,then in my opinion they deserve to be paid for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a)  Buy it digitally again, but if you can, make sure it is a copy that isclean in DRM terms.b)  Buy a hard copy.
For anything I buy, this is always my approach.
Aphysical copy of something has a much higher chance of lasting years, or moreor less indefinitely if I keep it and am able to back it up.
I don't do themicropayment for digital downloads thing, and most likely never will.
I'm notpaying tangible funds for something that could get lost in a power surge.Hard copies are a little more durable, especially if, as I said, they'rebacked up.c)  If you want to go the digital route, and a) isn't possible, pirate it.Although I don't have huge moral problems with piracy, (as I generally feelthat, on balance, most content producers will generally at least break even onany given pirated work, and usually make a large profit, even with piracy) mygeneral policy is that if I like something enough to really seek it out, Iwill generally like it enough to buy a physical copy from Amazon and give theartist something for their trouble.
If it is an artist who I like a lot, andwho I'd conceivably buy from often, (such as Shpongle, if I had more money)I'd possibly even write to the artist and ask them if they could make theirwares available from their own site, so that I could be sure that the lion'sshare of my money was going directly to them, where I intend it to go.In some cases (old/obscure stuff) piracy is going to be your only option, asyou may not be able to find the work via retail channels; however again, ifthe work in question is something you really value, use piracy as a lastresort.
If a creative person produces something which enriches your life,then in my opinion they deserve to be paid for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234071</id>
	<title>Re:Start buying disk again?</title>
	<author>protologix</author>
	<datestamp>1244310240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Exactly! Most of the music/DVDs/software/games I buy physical copies of never leave their packaging, as soon as I own them I fire up BitTorrent/Gnutella/Warez forums and download myself a copy. I'm not exactly sure about the legality in the states under the DMCA but here in Canada it's 100\% legal under the <a href="http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#79" title="cb-cda.gc.ca" rel="nofollow">Private Copying</a> [cb-cda.gc.ca] section of the Copyright Act and the <a href="http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#30.6" title="cb-cda.gc.ca" rel="nofollow">Computer Programs</a> [cb-cda.gc.ca] section if you want a rock-solid defense for backing up Software/Games to get "copies" by any methods you like as long as you actually own it.

Also, even if the House of Commons or the Supreme Court makes it illegal up here, I really don't care. For me morality is more important than legality when it comes to stupid laws, if I've purchased a copy I'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me that I can't grab myself a DRM-free version (besides, the RCMP hasn't and isn't going to be putting any effort into cracking down on piracy, and the ISPs up here don't seem to be doing anything beyond throttling). The day I give in to DRM is the day Microsoft goes open-source.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly !
Most of the music/DVDs/software/games I buy physical copies of never leave their packaging , as soon as I own them I fire up BitTorrent/Gnutella/Warez forums and download myself a copy .
I 'm not exactly sure about the legality in the states under the DMCA but here in Canada it 's 100 \ % legal under the Private Copying [ cb-cda.gc.ca ] section of the Copyright Act and the Computer Programs [ cb-cda.gc.ca ] section if you want a rock-solid defense for backing up Software/Games to get " copies " by any methods you like as long as you actually own it .
Also , even if the House of Commons or the Supreme Court makes it illegal up here , I really do n't care .
For me morality is more important than legality when it comes to stupid laws , if I 've purchased a copy I 'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me that I ca n't grab myself a DRM-free version ( besides , the RCMP has n't and is n't going to be putting any effort into cracking down on piracy , and the ISPs up here do n't seem to be doing anything beyond throttling ) .
The day I give in to DRM is the day Microsoft goes open-source .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly!
Most of the music/DVDs/software/games I buy physical copies of never leave their packaging, as soon as I own them I fire up BitTorrent/Gnutella/Warez forums and download myself a copy.
I'm not exactly sure about the legality in the states under the DMCA but here in Canada it's 100\% legal under the Private Copying [cb-cda.gc.ca] section of the Copyright Act and the Computer Programs [cb-cda.gc.ca] section if you want a rock-solid defense for backing up Software/Games to get "copies" by any methods you like as long as you actually own it.
Also, even if the House of Commons or the Supreme Court makes it illegal up here, I really don't care.
For me morality is more important than legality when it comes to stupid laws, if I've purchased a copy I'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me that I can't grab myself a DRM-free version (besides, the RCMP hasn't and isn't going to be putting any effort into cracking down on piracy, and the ISPs up here don't seem to be doing anything beyond throttling).
The day I give in to DRM is the day Microsoft goes open-source.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233319</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233745</id>
	<title>DMCA violation?</title>
	<author>horatio</author>
	<datestamp>1244308080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Would it be a DMCA violation to crack the DRM after the provider is unable to provide unlocking for legally purchased material?  What if the company emerges from Chapter 11, or the IP is purchased by a third party?  Could you then be sued/charged under the DMCA?  What if you provide software/service (ala DeCSS?) to help other people unlock their stuff (assuming there is no official channel to do so)?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Would it be a DMCA violation to crack the DRM after the provider is unable to provide unlocking for legally purchased material ?
What if the company emerges from Chapter 11 , or the IP is purchased by a third party ?
Could you then be sued/charged under the DMCA ?
What if you provide software/service ( ala DeCSS ?
) to help other people unlock their stuff ( assuming there is no official channel to do so ) ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would it be a DMCA violation to crack the DRM after the provider is unable to provide unlocking for legally purchased material?
What if the company emerges from Chapter 11, or the IP is purchased by a third party?
Could you then be sued/charged under the DMCA?
What if you provide software/service (ala DeCSS?
) to help other people unlock their stuff (assuming there is no official channel to do so)?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28237051</id>
	<title>Re:Can you still play your VHS?</title>
	<author>Pentium100</author>
	<datestamp>1244288220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Do you still have a VCR that works?</p></div><p>Two (VHS+SVHS). I use them to record stuff from TV and cut out the commercials. Looking for a third (better) one.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>What about a floppy drive?</p></div><p>I have an LS120 drive (which reads floppies), an USB floppy drive that I use with my laptop and some regular ones.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Laserdisk?</p></div><p>Pioneer CLD-2850. It may not be the best, but was the only one I could afford. It plays CDs too.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>5.25"?</p></div><p>One 360KB drive and two 1.2MB ones. All work. The 1.2MB ones are currently in PCs that are in use.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>8.5"?</p></div><p>Oops... Don't have any disks too, but would like to get a drive and some disks some time in the future.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>10MB HDD?</p></div><p>I have a 20MB HDD, but it does not work (somebody stole a chip before I got the drive). I have a working 100MB 3.5" drive and a 1.2GB 5.25" FH drive. Would like to get a working Microscience HH-725 drive to borrow the chip from it and see what data is hidden in my broken drive.</p><p>Also formats you probably forgot to mention:<br>MO (3.5" up to 1.3GB, bought recently because the disks last very long), R2R analog tape recorder, cassette deck, record player (for 33.3 and 45RPM records), radiogramophone made in 1964 (plays all records, but I use it only for 78RPM ones, also to listen to radio).</p><p>Also, a cassette, recorded 15 years ago still plays fine, but a CDR recorder 10 years ago does not.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>DRM is a fundamentally flawed idea</p></div><p>Yes it is, especially for audio. Even if I cannot break the DRM scheme any other way, there still is that tape recorder...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you still have a VCR that works ? Two ( VHS + SVHS ) .
I use them to record stuff from TV and cut out the commercials .
Looking for a third ( better ) one.What about a floppy drive ? I have an LS120 drive ( which reads floppies ) , an USB floppy drive that I use with my laptop and some regular ones.Laserdisk ? Pioneer CLD-2850 .
It may not be the best , but was the only one I could afford .
It plays CDs too.5.25 " ? One 360KB drive and two 1.2MB ones .
All work .
The 1.2MB ones are currently in PCs that are in use.8.5 " ? Oops... Do n't have any disks too , but would like to get a drive and some disks some time in the future.10MB HDD ? I have a 20MB HDD , but it does not work ( somebody stole a chip before I got the drive ) .
I have a working 100MB 3.5 " drive and a 1.2GB 5.25 " FH drive .
Would like to get a working Microscience HH-725 drive to borrow the chip from it and see what data is hidden in my broken drive.Also formats you probably forgot to mention : MO ( 3.5 " up to 1.3GB , bought recently because the disks last very long ) , R2R analog tape recorder , cassette deck , record player ( for 33.3 and 45RPM records ) , radiogramophone made in 1964 ( plays all records , but I use it only for 78RPM ones , also to listen to radio ) .Also , a cassette , recorded 15 years ago still plays fine , but a CDR recorder 10 years ago does not.DRM is a fundamentally flawed ideaYes it is , especially for audio .
Even if I can not break the DRM scheme any other way , there still is that tape recorder.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you still have a VCR that works?Two (VHS+SVHS).
I use them to record stuff from TV and cut out the commercials.
Looking for a third (better) one.What about a floppy drive?I have an LS120 drive (which reads floppies), an USB floppy drive that I use with my laptop and some regular ones.Laserdisk?Pioneer CLD-2850.
It may not be the best, but was the only one I could afford.
It plays CDs too.5.25"?One 360KB drive and two 1.2MB ones.
All work.
The 1.2MB ones are currently in PCs that are in use.8.5"?Oops... Don't have any disks too, but would like to get a drive and some disks some time in the future.10MB HDD?I have a 20MB HDD, but it does not work (somebody stole a chip before I got the drive).
I have a working 100MB 3.5" drive and a 1.2GB 5.25" FH drive.
Would like to get a working Microscience HH-725 drive to borrow the chip from it and see what data is hidden in my broken drive.Also formats you probably forgot to mention:MO (3.5" up to 1.3GB, bought recently because the disks last very long), R2R analog tape recorder, cassette deck, record player (for 33.3 and 45RPM records), radiogramophone made in 1964 (plays all records, but I use it only for 78RPM ones, also to listen to radio).Also, a cassette, recorded 15 years ago still plays fine, but a CDR recorder 10 years ago does not.DRM is a fundamentally flawed ideaYes it is, especially for audio.
Even if I cannot break the DRM scheme any other way, there still is that tape recorder...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233445</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28244399</id>
	<title>Re:my Edison wax reels don't play</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244371740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>those ingrates have started dieing on me</p></div></blockquote><p>It's "dying", not "dieing".<br> <br>HTH. HAND.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>those ingrates have started dieing on meIt 's " dying " , not " dieing " .
HTH. HAND .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>those ingrates have started dieing on meIt's "dying", not "dieing".
HTH. HAND.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234687</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28251411</id>
	<title>Re: Copyright Notices</title>
	<author>andrewd18</author>
	<datestamp>1244477940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But the thing that really sucks with DVD:s are the copyright notice that you are forced to watch, which means that some people rips the DVD:s to get rid of that crap.</p></div><p>Really? <b>Really?</b> <br> <br>

If you're really that upset about a 10 second unskippable screen informing you of your rights as a consumer, I can think of plenty of less time consuming ways to get around it other than ripping the DVDs. Throwing popcorn in the microwave, talking with my girlfriend, yawning, staring at the ceiling, petting my cat... all things that take less time and effort than ripping a DVD to my computer, removing the copyright notice, and re-burning it. Oh, and the nice thing is, that these have the exact same effect - I don't have to watch the copyright notice.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But the thing that really sucks with DVD : s are the copyright notice that you are forced to watch , which means that some people rips the DVD : s to get rid of that crap.Really ?
Really ? If you 're really that upset about a 10 second unskippable screen informing you of your rights as a consumer , I can think of plenty of less time consuming ways to get around it other than ripping the DVDs .
Throwing popcorn in the microwave , talking with my girlfriend , yawning , staring at the ceiling , petting my cat... all things that take less time and effort than ripping a DVD to my computer , removing the copyright notice , and re-burning it .
Oh , and the nice thing is , that these have the exact same effect - I do n't have to watch the copyright notice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But the thing that really sucks with DVD:s are the copyright notice that you are forced to watch, which means that some people rips the DVD:s to get rid of that crap.Really?
Really?  

If you're really that upset about a 10 second unskippable screen informing you of your rights as a consumer, I can think of plenty of less time consuming ways to get around it other than ripping the DVDs.
Throwing popcorn in the microwave, talking with my girlfriend, yawning, staring at the ceiling, petting my cat... all things that take less time and effort than ripping a DVD to my computer, removing the copyright notice, and re-burning it.
Oh, and the nice thing is, that these have the exact same effect - I don't have to watch the copyright notice.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234013</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234247</id>
	<title>Re:Things you buy don't last forever</title>
	<author>chthonicdaemon</author>
	<datestamp>1244311680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Of course, your analogy holds only for certain kinds of goods.  I have a reasonable expectation that the art I have bought will last beyond my lifetime.  Also, remember that the things that wear out don't do so because they were designed that way -- in fact, engineers have worked hard to make your tires last as long as they can.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course , your analogy holds only for certain kinds of goods .
I have a reasonable expectation that the art I have bought will last beyond my lifetime .
Also , remember that the things that wear out do n't do so because they were designed that way -- in fact , engineers have worked hard to make your tires last as long as they can .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course, your analogy holds only for certain kinds of goods.
I have a reasonable expectation that the art I have bought will last beyond my lifetime.
Also, remember that the things that wear out don't do so because they were designed that way -- in fact, engineers have worked hard to make your tires last as long as they can.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233515</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236559</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>Scamwise</author>
	<datestamp>1244283660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Millions and millions is pretty poor in a potential market of Billions and billions...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Millions and millions is pretty poor in a potential market of Billions and billions.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Millions and millions is pretty poor in a potential market of Billions and billions...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235205</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234223</id>
	<title>Re:Things you buy don't last forever</title>
	<author>zotz</author>
	<datestamp>1244311560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Not that I agree with this, but these companies that go under could argue that almost nothing you buy lasts forever, so your right to listen to (or watch) what you download should not last forever."</p><p>Cool, let the copyright expire when the ability to listen runs out... problem solved... (who wants this?)</p><p>drew<br>--<br><a href="http://zotz.kompoz.com/" title="kompoz.com">http://zotz.kompoz.com/</a> [kompoz.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Not that I agree with this , but these companies that go under could argue that almost nothing you buy lasts forever , so your right to listen to ( or watch ) what you download should not last forever .
" Cool , let the copyright expire when the ability to listen runs out... problem solved... ( who wants this ?
) drew--http : //zotz.kompoz.com/ [ kompoz.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Not that I agree with this, but these companies that go under could argue that almost nothing you buy lasts forever, so your right to listen to (or watch) what you download should not last forever.
"Cool, let the copyright expire when the ability to listen runs out... problem solved... (who wants this?
)drew--http://zotz.kompoz.com/ [kompoz.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233515</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234013</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244309760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The first thing - this is one of the reasons why DRM-protected media is doing bad in online sales.</p><p>People are aware of the limitations and problems.</p><p>And this is yet another reason why getting the media in formats that are secured for long-time use. Even DVD:s are better for the consumer since they don't depend on the availability of a server somewhere on the net, and can be used standalone. But the thing that really sucks with DVD:s are the copyright notice that you are forced to watch, which means that some people rips the DVD:s to get rid of that crap.</p><p>If the media industry had caught on the track earlier and offered music at a reasonable price without any crippling DRM they would have been better off in sales. There are people willing to pay for it, if they can get it. Going torrent works for some, but some of us wants a reliable and legal source for our media.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The first thing - this is one of the reasons why DRM-protected media is doing bad in online sales.People are aware of the limitations and problems.And this is yet another reason why getting the media in formats that are secured for long-time use .
Even DVD : s are better for the consumer since they do n't depend on the availability of a server somewhere on the net , and can be used standalone .
But the thing that really sucks with DVD : s are the copyright notice that you are forced to watch , which means that some people rips the DVD : s to get rid of that crap.If the media industry had caught on the track earlier and offered music at a reasonable price without any crippling DRM they would have been better off in sales .
There are people willing to pay for it , if they can get it .
Going torrent works for some , but some of us wants a reliable and legal source for our media .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The first thing - this is one of the reasons why DRM-protected media is doing bad in online sales.People are aware of the limitations and problems.And this is yet another reason why getting the media in formats that are secured for long-time use.
Even DVD:s are better for the consumer since they don't depend on the availability of a server somewhere on the net, and can be used standalone.
But the thing that really sucks with DVD:s are the copyright notice that you are forced to watch, which means that some people rips the DVD:s to get rid of that crap.If the media industry had caught on the track earlier and offered music at a reasonable price without any crippling DRM they would have been better off in sales.
There are people willing to pay for it, if they can get it.
Going torrent works for some, but some of us wants a reliable and legal source for our media.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28238141</id>
	<title>Walmart's DRM</title>
	<author>sdnoob</author>
	<datestamp>1244298240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Walmart may have "caved-in" to consumer pressure before, but ever since those announcements last year, I have been unable to authorize a second computer to play their DRM files and have also been unable to restore license backups made (and being restored to) WMP10.</p><p>I want to reformat, reconfigure and retask the computer the Walmart files are authorized on (moving the files to a newer XP system, also with WMP10, during that process) but have been unable to get the DRMed files to work on a different PC (which IS allowed by the licenses).</p><p>The DRM has also prevented me from swapping motherboards in that computer as well. Also tried to 'downgrade' it (some of the hardware), as it has more power and memory than it needs, but the DRM files refuse to play on a different motherboard/CPU combo (storage and addon cards remained). Because of the above, they won't reauthorize either. Windows works on either (no driver installs or reinstalls needed), and didn't even require a reactivation on the board swap (similar enough, I guess).</p><p>Walmart's customer service is of no help at all, only thing they ever say back is something along the lines of 'we don't support the DRM files any more'.</p><p>And no, I do not want to have to burn-and-rerip, the Windows Media files are bad enough already.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Walmart may have " caved-in " to consumer pressure before , but ever since those announcements last year , I have been unable to authorize a second computer to play their DRM files and have also been unable to restore license backups made ( and being restored to ) WMP10.I want to reformat , reconfigure and retask the computer the Walmart files are authorized on ( moving the files to a newer XP system , also with WMP10 , during that process ) but have been unable to get the DRMed files to work on a different PC ( which IS allowed by the licenses ) .The DRM has also prevented me from swapping motherboards in that computer as well .
Also tried to 'downgrade ' it ( some of the hardware ) , as it has more power and memory than it needs , but the DRM files refuse to play on a different motherboard/CPU combo ( storage and addon cards remained ) .
Because of the above , they wo n't reauthorize either .
Windows works on either ( no driver installs or reinstalls needed ) , and did n't even require a reactivation on the board swap ( similar enough , I guess ) .Walmart 's customer service is of no help at all , only thing they ever say back is something along the lines of 'we do n't support the DRM files any more'.And no , I do not want to have to burn-and-rerip , the Windows Media files are bad enough already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Walmart may have "caved-in" to consumer pressure before, but ever since those announcements last year, I have been unable to authorize a second computer to play their DRM files and have also been unable to restore license backups made (and being restored to) WMP10.I want to reformat, reconfigure and retask the computer the Walmart files are authorized on (moving the files to a newer XP system, also with WMP10, during that process) but have been unable to get the DRMed files to work on a different PC (which IS allowed by the licenses).The DRM has also prevented me from swapping motherboards in that computer as well.
Also tried to 'downgrade' it (some of the hardware), as it has more power and memory than it needs, but the DRM files refuse to play on a different motherboard/CPU combo (storage and addon cards remained).
Because of the above, they won't reauthorize either.
Windows works on either (no driver installs or reinstalls needed), and didn't even require a reactivation on the board swap (similar enough, I guess).Walmart's customer service is of no help at all, only thing they ever say back is something along the lines of 'we don't support the DRM files any more'.And no, I do not want to have to burn-and-rerip, the Windows Media files are bad enough already.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233613</id>
	<title>Re:How many times have you bought the same cd?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244307120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I replace CDs all the time, thank god blank's are so cheap.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I replace CDs all the time , thank god blank 's are so cheap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I replace CDs all the time, thank god blank's are so cheap.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233781</id>
	<title>to the lawmakers..</title>
	<author>kylant</author>
	<datestamp>1244308260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a perfect opportunity for the lawmakers to step in:<br>
Every provider of digital content should be required to offer one of two options:<br>
1. DRM-free content only - it is up to the consumer to keep backups of his contents or<br>
2. a life-long guarantee for DRM-protected content. This has to be protected through third-party agreements in case the original provider goes out of business.<p>

Yes, option 2 is costly but nobody has to use DRM in the first place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a perfect opportunity for the lawmakers to step in : Every provider of digital content should be required to offer one of two options : 1 .
DRM-free content only - it is up to the consumer to keep backups of his contents or 2. a life-long guarantee for DRM-protected content .
This has to be protected through third-party agreements in case the original provider goes out of business .
Yes , option 2 is costly but nobody has to use DRM in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a perfect opportunity for the lawmakers to step in:
Every provider of digital content should be required to offer one of two options:
1.
DRM-free content only - it is up to the consumer to keep backups of his contents or
2. a life-long guarantee for DRM-protected content.
This has to be protected through third-party agreements in case the original provider goes out of business.
Yes, option 2 is costly but nobody has to use DRM in the first place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234867</id>
	<title>Re:How about a deal?</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1244316840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>How about a deal? If you release your content in an encrypted/restricted format, you lose copyright protection. You're taking matters into your own hands. You're not benefiting society.</p></div></blockquote><p>And as part of this deal, you would also not be able to prosecute people who successfully break your protection system. If only...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about a deal ?
If you release your content in an encrypted/restricted format , you lose copyright protection .
You 're taking matters into your own hands .
You 're not benefiting society.And as part of this deal , you would also not be able to prosecute people who successfully break your protection system .
If only.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about a deal?
If you release your content in an encrypted/restricted format, you lose copyright protection.
You're taking matters into your own hands.
You're not benefiting society.And as part of this deal, you would also not be able to prosecute people who successfully break your protection system.
If only...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233803</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236285</id>
	<title>Re:Its because of piracy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244281740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can picture it now: fapping in a jar to give a DNA sample for my music purchase. Blockbuster Music will never be the same again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can picture it now : fapping in a jar to give a DNA sample for my music purchase .
Blockbuster Music will never be the same again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can picture it now: fapping in a jar to give a DNA sample for my music purchase.
Blockbuster Music will never be the same again.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233465</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236711</id>
	<title>Re:Its because of piracy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244285040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, no, not just this company, but EVERY company would make 44 billion dollars a year with DRM!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , no , not just this company , but EVERY company would make 44 billion dollars a year with DRM !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, no, not just this company, but EVERY company would make 44 billion dollars a year with DRM!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233465</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233753</id>
	<title>Time to start buying discs again?</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1244308080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, those aren't exempt either if the industries get their way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , those are n't exempt either if the industries get their way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, those aren't exempt either if the industries get their way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234003</id>
	<title>Haha.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244309700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My brother used to work for them!<br>He would always tell me how great they were, but he was just believing what the marketing team told him.<br>I always knew they wouldn't survive.<br>-Taylor</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My brother used to work for them ! He would always tell me how great they were , but he was just believing what the marketing team told him.I always knew they would n't survive.-Taylor</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My brother used to work for them!He would always tell me how great they were, but he was just believing what the marketing team told him.I always knew they wouldn't survive.-Taylor</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234533</id>
	<title>Re:This is one of the most important drawbacks of</title>
	<author>AliasMarlowe</author>
	<datestamp>1244313840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>AFAIK no company that was not bankrupt got away with just cshutting down the servers.</p></div><p>Did Adobe Systems go bankrupt, then?<br>
Adobe started its own ebook shop to promote PDF as a format for ebooks. I was one of those who got suckered in, and bought one PDF ebook from them. It could be read only with Adobe Reader on Windows and had to be incorporated into the "bookshelf". It turned out to be so riddled with restrictions (print at most 10 pages per 30 days, etc.) that I did not buy any others. Remote authorization from an Adobe server was needed to transfer the reading rights to another PC, or even to an updated version of the reader. About a year later, Adobe announced that it had achieved itrs promotional aims and was shutting down its ebook shop and authorization servers, and that all ebooks would be frozen.<br>
They did provide a sort of solution for continued access: you had to make an archive of your Adobe Reader 5 software and bookshelf using a special tool. The process was destructive - it would delete the original files with the authorization codes while making the archive. This archive could then be restored onto another PC (destroying the archive). You were to be stuck with Adobe Reader 5 forever, with no hope of access if you changed to Mac or Linux.<br>
My only option was to find and acquire a cracked version of the ebook I had bought, in order to read it once I left the Windows world completely.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>AFAIK no company that was not bankrupt got away with just cshutting down the servers.Did Adobe Systems go bankrupt , then ?
Adobe started its own ebook shop to promote PDF as a format for ebooks .
I was one of those who got suckered in , and bought one PDF ebook from them .
It could be read only with Adobe Reader on Windows and had to be incorporated into the " bookshelf " .
It turned out to be so riddled with restrictions ( print at most 10 pages per 30 days , etc .
) that I did not buy any others .
Remote authorization from an Adobe server was needed to transfer the reading rights to another PC , or even to an updated version of the reader .
About a year later , Adobe announced that it had achieved itrs promotional aims and was shutting down its ebook shop and authorization servers , and that all ebooks would be frozen .
They did provide a sort of solution for continued access : you had to make an archive of your Adobe Reader 5 software and bookshelf using a special tool .
The process was destructive - it would delete the original files with the authorization codes while making the archive .
This archive could then be restored onto another PC ( destroying the archive ) .
You were to be stuck with Adobe Reader 5 forever , with no hope of access if you changed to Mac or Linux .
My only option was to find and acquire a cracked version of the ebook I had bought , in order to read it once I left the Windows world completely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AFAIK no company that was not bankrupt got away with just cshutting down the servers.Did Adobe Systems go bankrupt, then?
Adobe started its own ebook shop to promote PDF as a format for ebooks.
I was one of those who got suckered in, and bought one PDF ebook from them.
It could be read only with Adobe Reader on Windows and had to be incorporated into the "bookshelf".
It turned out to be so riddled with restrictions (print at most 10 pages per 30 days, etc.
) that I did not buy any others.
Remote authorization from an Adobe server was needed to transfer the reading rights to another PC, or even to an updated version of the reader.
About a year later, Adobe announced that it had achieved itrs promotional aims and was shutting down its ebook shop and authorization servers, and that all ebooks would be frozen.
They did provide a sort of solution for continued access: you had to make an archive of your Adobe Reader 5 software and bookshelf using a special tool.
The process was destructive - it would delete the original files with the authorization codes while making the archive.
This archive could then be restored onto another PC (destroying the archive).
You were to be stuck with Adobe Reader 5 forever, with no hope of access if you changed to Mac or Linux.
My only option was to find and acquire a cracked version of the ebook I had bought, in order to read it once I left the Windows world completely.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236129</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244280720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>iPod.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>iPod .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>iPod.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235059</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233579</id>
	<title>Analog hole</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244307000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/analoghole" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">analog hole</a> [wikipedia.org] will always be there for audio and video.  Yes, it's a pain to buy a DRM'd song then hook up ye olde tape recorder to your speaker output before the vendor files for chapter 11, but it does work.</p><p>I'm more worried about games and other content that are different each time you use them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The analog hole [ wikipedia.org ] will always be there for audio and video .
Yes , it 's a pain to buy a DRM 'd song then hook up ye olde tape recorder to your speaker output before the vendor files for chapter 11 , but it does work.I 'm more worried about games and other content that are different each time you use them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The analog hole [wikipedia.org] will always be there for audio and video.
Yes, it's a pain to buy a DRM'd song then hook up ye olde tape recorder to your speaker output before the vendor files for chapter 11, but it does work.I'm more worried about games and other content that are different each time you use them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234687</id>
	<title>my Edison wax reels don't play</title>
	<author>goombah99</author>
	<datestamp>1244315040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Back when Edison was offering music on wax cyllinders you could buy, I avoided going with George Westinghouse scheme to stream music.  I wanted to own it!  but now I can't find a player for them.</p><p>But I learned my lesson.  Now I buy the bands them selves, house them onsite, and have them play for me.  But would you not know it?  those ingrates have started dieing on me.  Again I'm stuck with music containers I can play.</p><p>Damn you RIAA!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Back when Edison was offering music on wax cyllinders you could buy , I avoided going with George Westinghouse scheme to stream music .
I wanted to own it !
but now I ca n't find a player for them.But I learned my lesson .
Now I buy the bands them selves , house them onsite , and have them play for me .
But would you not know it ?
those ingrates have started dieing on me .
Again I 'm stuck with music containers I can play.Damn you RIAA !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Back when Edison was offering music on wax cyllinders you could buy, I avoided going with George Westinghouse scheme to stream music.
I wanted to own it!
but now I can't find a player for them.But I learned my lesson.
Now I buy the bands them selves, house them onsite, and have them play for me.
But would you not know it?
those ingrates have started dieing on me.
Again I'm stuck with music containers I can play.Damn you RIAA!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233319</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235323</id>
	<title>Theft</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244319180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the company evaporates without setting up a way for me to continue to use the things that I paid to use, then the directors of that company are guilty of theft, moreso than pirates, and should be prosecuted accordingly.  OTOH, if they are able to set up a good transition, meh.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the company evaporates without setting up a way for me to continue to use the things that I paid to use , then the directors of that company are guilty of theft , moreso than pirates , and should be prosecuted accordingly .
OTOH , if they are able to set up a good transition , meh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the company evaporates without setting up a way for me to continue to use the things that I paid to use, then the directors of that company are guilty of theft, moreso than pirates, and should be prosecuted accordingly.
OTOH, if they are able to set up a good transition, meh.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233589</id>
	<title>Re:This is one of the most important drawbacks of</title>
	<author>Dan541</author>
	<datestamp>1244307000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The companies should be required (by law) to keep their servers running indefinitely.</p><p>That is after all the product they sell, if I buy a movie I expect it to play 20years later. Can't work the business model, don't do it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The companies should be required ( by law ) to keep their servers running indefinitely.That is after all the product they sell , if I buy a movie I expect it to play 20years later .
Ca n't work the business model , do n't do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The companies should be required (by law) to keep their servers running indefinitely.That is after all the product they sell, if I buy a movie I expect it to play 20years later.
Can't work the business model, don't do it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233415</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233465</id>
	<title>Its because of piracy</title>
	<author>click2005</author>
	<datestamp>1244306280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its obvious that the only reason media companies fail is because of piracy.  I pulled numbers out of thin air that show this<br>company would have made over $44billion a year if it wasnt for pirates.  They should use more DRM, so much that every customer<br>needs a signed statement that promises no other person, animal, vegetable or mineral will see, hear, smell or even know the media<br>is playing.  Activating the media should require a DNA sample.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its obvious that the only reason media companies fail is because of piracy .
I pulled numbers out of thin air that show thiscompany would have made over $ 44billion a year if it wasnt for pirates .
They should use more DRM , so much that every customerneeds a signed statement that promises no other person , animal , vegetable or mineral will see , hear , smell or even know the mediais playing .
Activating the media should require a DNA sample .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its obvious that the only reason media companies fail is because of piracy.
I pulled numbers out of thin air that show thiscompany would have made over $44billion a year if it wasnt for pirates.
They should use more DRM, so much that every customerneeds a signed statement that promises no other person, animal, vegetable or mineral will see, hear, smell or even know the mediais playing.
Activating the media should require a DNA sample.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235705</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244321280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><blockquote><div><p>The first thing - this is one of the reasons why DRM-protected media is doing bad in online sales.

People are aware of the limitations and problems.</p></div></blockquote><p>

I used to believe so, but why then did extremely few people switch from DRMed iTunes to non-DRMed Amazon in the markets it were available (when Amazon had full catalogue DRM free, iTunes had most DRMed, and Amazon had great iPod/iTunes integration)? It apparently didn't matter <i>enough</i> to users to switch to a DRM-free service (which I thought they would).</p></div><p>Why? because it is Apple, Steve Jobs could take a shit in a box then charge 1000 dollars. You know what? Every Apple fanboy would buy it too. Apple DRM is better then non-drm music because Apple is great.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The first thing - this is one of the reasons why DRM-protected media is doing bad in online sales .
People are aware of the limitations and problems .
I used to believe so , but why then did extremely few people switch from DRMed iTunes to non-DRMed Amazon in the markets it were available ( when Amazon had full catalogue DRM free , iTunes had most DRMed , and Amazon had great iPod/iTunes integration ) ?
It apparently did n't matter enough to users to switch to a DRM-free service ( which I thought they would ) .Why ?
because it is Apple , Steve Jobs could take a shit in a box then charge 1000 dollars .
You know what ?
Every Apple fanboy would buy it too .
Apple DRM is better then non-drm music because Apple is great .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The first thing - this is one of the reasons why DRM-protected media is doing bad in online sales.
People are aware of the limitations and problems.
I used to believe so, but why then did extremely few people switch from DRMed iTunes to non-DRMed Amazon in the markets it were available (when Amazon had full catalogue DRM free, iTunes had most DRMed, and Amazon had great iPod/iTunes integration)?
It apparently didn't matter enough to users to switch to a DRM-free service (which I thought they would).Why?
because it is Apple, Steve Jobs could take a shit in a box then charge 1000 dollars.
You know what?
Every Apple fanboy would buy it too.
Apple DRM is better then non-drm music because Apple is great.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235059</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235059</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>dotwhynot</author>
	<datestamp>1244317680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The first thing - this is one of the reasons why DRM-protected media is doing bad in online sales.

People are aware of the limitations and problems.</p></div></blockquote><p>

I used to believe so, but why then did extremely few people switch from DRMed iTunes to non-DRMed Amazon in the markets it were available (when Amazon had full catalogue DRM free, iTunes had most DRMed, and Amazon had great iPod/iTunes integration)? It apparently didn't matter <i>enough</i> to users to switch to a DRM-free service (which I thought they would).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The first thing - this is one of the reasons why DRM-protected media is doing bad in online sales .
People are aware of the limitations and problems .
I used to believe so , but why then did extremely few people switch from DRMed iTunes to non-DRMed Amazon in the markets it were available ( when Amazon had full catalogue DRM free , iTunes had most DRMed , and Amazon had great iPod/iTunes integration ) ?
It apparently did n't matter enough to users to switch to a DRM-free service ( which I thought they would ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The first thing - this is one of the reasons why DRM-protected media is doing bad in online sales.
People are aware of the limitations and problems.
I used to believe so, but why then did extremely few people switch from DRMed iTunes to non-DRMed Amazon in the markets it were available (when Amazon had full catalogue DRM free, iTunes had most DRMed, and Amazon had great iPod/iTunes integration)?
It apparently didn't matter enough to users to switch to a DRM-free service (which I thought they would).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234013</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233415</id>
	<title>This is one of the most important drawbacks of DRM</title>
	<author>gweihir</author>
	<datestamp>1244305980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>AFAIK no company that was not bankrupt got away with just cshutting down the servers. The options for viable companies seem to be</p><p>1. Refound all purchases (and have a net loss)<br>2. Remove the DRM (may be difficult/impossible, as content owners have to agree)<br>3. Keep the servers running (and have continuous cost for that)</p><p>It seems some companies have already realized that DRM is a losing game even for them, because of the additional cost and because it is a business they cannot simply back out of.</p><p>Now on a bankrupcy, it becomes interesting. In the EU, it may actually be legal to hack the DRM then. But basically I think your stuff is lost. If this happens a few times, customers will catch on. Many already have. In the end, DRM will die for good when this problem has become common knowledge.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>AFAIK no company that was not bankrupt got away with just cshutting down the servers .
The options for viable companies seem to be1 .
Refound all purchases ( and have a net loss ) 2 .
Remove the DRM ( may be difficult/impossible , as content owners have to agree ) 3 .
Keep the servers running ( and have continuous cost for that ) It seems some companies have already realized that DRM is a losing game even for them , because of the additional cost and because it is a business they can not simply back out of.Now on a bankrupcy , it becomes interesting .
In the EU , it may actually be legal to hack the DRM then .
But basically I think your stuff is lost .
If this happens a few times , customers will catch on .
Many already have .
In the end , DRM will die for good when this problem has become common knowledge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AFAIK no company that was not bankrupt got away with just cshutting down the servers.
The options for viable companies seem to be1.
Refound all purchases (and have a net loss)2.
Remove the DRM (may be difficult/impossible, as content owners have to agree)3.
Keep the servers running (and have continuous cost for that)It seems some companies have already realized that DRM is a losing game even for them, because of the additional cost and because it is a business they cannot simply back out of.Now on a bankrupcy, it becomes interesting.
In the EU, it may actually be legal to hack the DRM then.
But basically I think your stuff is lost.
If this happens a few times, customers will catch on.
Many already have.
In the end, DRM will die for good when this problem has become common knowledge.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28238753</id>
	<title>Re:Analog hole</title>
	<author>nine-times</author>
	<datestamp>1244305380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That works so long as you can still play the content.  What if the DRM requires regular authentication to some kind of server, and that just suddenly stops working before you hear anything about the company going under?
</p><p>But I agree about games.  Preserving games are worrisome for all sorts of other reasons, too, like the fact that they're more hardware-dependent.  It's much easier to format-shift some music than a video game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That works so long as you can still play the content .
What if the DRM requires regular authentication to some kind of server , and that just suddenly stops working before you hear anything about the company going under ?
But I agree about games .
Preserving games are worrisome for all sorts of other reasons , too , like the fact that they 're more hardware-dependent .
It 's much easier to format-shift some music than a video game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That works so long as you can still play the content.
What if the DRM requires regular authentication to some kind of server, and that just suddenly stops working before you hear anything about the company going under?
But I agree about games.
Preserving games are worrisome for all sorts of other reasons, too, like the fact that they're more hardware-dependent.
It's much easier to format-shift some music than a video game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233579</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234395</id>
	<title>Re:Things you buy don't last forever</title>
	<author>moranar</author>
	<datestamp>1244312700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All those examples cite causes not artificially produced to end the use of your product. If the monitor dies after 5 years, it's (hopefully) not because a conscious decision from the maker. If your tires wear out, it's due to the use, not because Michelin decided to add a rot-fast compound to the rubber. The DRM is a completely different beast. Ask yourself if any of the examples you mentioned are the equivalent of a dead man's switch like DRM is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All those examples cite causes not artificially produced to end the use of your product .
If the monitor dies after 5 years , it 's ( hopefully ) not because a conscious decision from the maker .
If your tires wear out , it 's due to the use , not because Michelin decided to add a rot-fast compound to the rubber .
The DRM is a completely different beast .
Ask yourself if any of the examples you mentioned are the equivalent of a dead man 's switch like DRM is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All those examples cite causes not artificially produced to end the use of your product.
If the monitor dies after 5 years, it's (hopefully) not because a conscious decision from the maker.
If your tires wear out, it's due to the use, not because Michelin decided to add a rot-fast compound to the rubber.
The DRM is a completely different beast.
Ask yourself if any of the examples you mentioned are the equivalent of a dead man's switch like DRM is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233515</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28237861</id>
	<title>stupid people</title>
	<author>pbjones</author>
	<datestamp>1244295960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ANY transport or format of music or data is similar to DRM. People who have CDs have to have a CD player to play them, which might seem trivial now, but it may be an issue in 10 years time. I'm sure that the HD-DVD owners are unhappy! Whatever format you obtain your material in, there is always the risk that it may not be playable in the future. I have a couple of hundred DVDs at the moment, it occurred to me that with shifting consumer interest that it may not be aging of the discs that kills them, it may be that I no longer have a machine to play them on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ANY transport or format of music or data is similar to DRM .
People who have CDs have to have a CD player to play them , which might seem trivial now , but it may be an issue in 10 years time .
I 'm sure that the HD-DVD owners are unhappy !
Whatever format you obtain your material in , there is always the risk that it may not be playable in the future .
I have a couple of hundred DVDs at the moment , it occurred to me that with shifting consumer interest that it may not be aging of the discs that kills them , it may be that I no longer have a machine to play them on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ANY transport or format of music or data is similar to DRM.
People who have CDs have to have a CD player to play them, which might seem trivial now, but it may be an issue in 10 years time.
I'm sure that the HD-DVD owners are unhappy!
Whatever format you obtain your material in, there is always the risk that it may not be playable in the future.
I have a couple of hundred DVDs at the moment, it occurred to me that with shifting consumer interest that it may not be aging of the discs that kills them, it may be that I no longer have a machine to play them on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233555</id>
	<title>Re:How many times have you bought the same cd?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244306820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's why I just buy sheet music. That way I don't have to be at the stereo to listen to music. What happens when electricity is not available?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's why I just buy sheet music .
That way I do n't have to be at the stereo to listen to music .
What happens when electricity is not available ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's why I just buy sheet music.
That way I don't have to be at the stereo to listen to music.
What happens when electricity is not available?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28243733</id>
	<title>Re:Cable Internet</title>
	<author>Chrontius</author>
	<datestamp>1244366280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>no more pay tv?  so be it.  I can live without out!</p></div><p>But how easily can you live without high-speed Internet access if the only provider of home high-speed Internet access ties its high-speed Internet access service to a pay TV service?</p></div><p>false dichotomy.  You're introducing problems where none exist, and we have enough to deal with without making our own trouble.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>no more pay tv ?
so be it .
I can live without out ! But how easily can you live without high-speed Internet access if the only provider of home high-speed Internet access ties its high-speed Internet access service to a pay TV service ? false dichotomy .
You 're introducing problems where none exist , and we have enough to deal with without making our own trouble .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>no more pay tv?
so be it.
I can live without out!But how easily can you live without high-speed Internet access if the only provider of home high-speed Internet access ties its high-speed Internet access service to a pay TV service?false dichotomy.
You're introducing problems where none exist, and we have enough to deal with without making our own trouble.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235345</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233455</id>
	<title>How many times have you bought the same cd?</title>
	<author>yourassOA</author>
	<datestamp>1244306220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have some cd's that have been replaced several times, stolen, scratched,kids etc. At least with a cd you physically get something and you don't need to be online to listen to your tunes. What happens when internet is not available?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have some cd 's that have been replaced several times , stolen , scratched,kids etc .
At least with a cd you physically get something and you do n't need to be online to listen to your tunes .
What happens when internet is not available ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have some cd's that have been replaced several times, stolen, scratched,kids etc.
At least with a cd you physically get something and you don't need to be online to listen to your tunes.
What happens when internet is not available?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234785</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>Cernst77</author>
	<datestamp>1244316180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is there anyone on slashdot left that thinks the DMCA has screwed the consumer?

What about any users left that actually support piracy?

I posted a sentence blasting the DMCA in another related thread and got ANOTHER troll mod. Stop it please, my karma is cratered already.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is there anyone on slashdot left that thinks the DMCA has screwed the consumer ?
What about any users left that actually support piracy ?
I posted a sentence blasting the DMCA in another related thread and got ANOTHER troll mod .
Stop it please , my karma is cratered already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is there anyone on slashdot left that thinks the DMCA has screwed the consumer?
What about any users left that actually support piracy?
I posted a sentence blasting the DMCA in another related thread and got ANOTHER troll mod.
Stop it please, my karma is cratered already.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235307</id>
	<title>Re:Finally an original thinker</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244319060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Going torrent works for some, but some of us wants a reliable and legal source for our media.</p></div><p>What do you mean? Downloading copyrighted material from p2p sites is 100\% legal (if it's not given commercial use, which is to say always), at least in Spain. Is it not the case in your country? As for reliability, with p2p you can always get what you want (and fast). You don't depend on single providers/servers that can suffer downtime, for example. So how can you get more reliability?</p><p>Paying for media is fine with me. I still buy the odd CD now and then, and I certainly keep going to the cinema. I just have access to much more content through p2p.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Going torrent works for some , but some of us wants a reliable and legal source for our media.What do you mean ?
Downloading copyrighted material from p2p sites is 100 \ % legal ( if it 's not given commercial use , which is to say always ) , at least in Spain .
Is it not the case in your country ?
As for reliability , with p2p you can always get what you want ( and fast ) .
You do n't depend on single providers/servers that can suffer downtime , for example .
So how can you get more reliability ? Paying for media is fine with me .
I still buy the odd CD now and then , and I certainly keep going to the cinema .
I just have access to much more content through p2p .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Going torrent works for some, but some of us wants a reliable and legal source for our media.What do you mean?
Downloading copyrighted material from p2p sites is 100\% legal (if it's not given commercial use, which is to say always), at least in Spain.
Is it not the case in your country?
As for reliability, with p2p you can always get what you want (and fast).
You don't depend on single providers/servers that can suffer downtime, for example.
So how can you get more reliability?Paying for media is fine with me.
I still buy the odd CD now and then, and I certainly keep going to the cinema.
I just have access to much more content through p2p.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234013</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28238681</id>
	<title>This goes much further</title>
	<author>slashdottedjoe</author>
	<datestamp>1244304540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This goes beyond DRM media offerings. This covers any cloud provided service.</p><p>An example is a client where a "knowledgeable" family member keeps pushing on-line backup as the ultimate solution, even claiming that other backups are no longer needed. Not that I would disagree with an automatic off-site backup, but you must allow for the company to go belly up.</p><p>In my research for them, I found that DataDepositBox.com is popular. However, from my communications with the company, it is clear that their admins are capable of changing your password and getting access to your key. I am not saying they are not a reputable service, nor that their staff are morally challenged. I am just stating the fact is that the company has the ability to access your data and they even claim they will provide your data to any government agency that properly requests it. Also, you will never have access to your encryption key, other than through them.</p><p>According to their terms of service, they only need to post information on their website prior to any discontinuation of service.</p><p>The key take away is that you must encrypt your data before you send it and there is always a chance they will not be there to provide your key to you when you may need them most. I am trying to explain this to my client, but they just bobble head what their family member told them. They seem to wish to ignore my recommendation of using an off-site backup along with a on-site tape or disk backup. The cloud is cool and slick, but you have to understand the limitations.,</p><p>The DRM issue is far worst for, from the outset, you are forced into a data lost potential you can never extricate yourself from. With all other cloud services, you have control of the data at some point. If, you lose anything, it is your fault. DRM just screws you over and you just await the ticking bomb to go off.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This goes beyond DRM media offerings .
This covers any cloud provided service.An example is a client where a " knowledgeable " family member keeps pushing on-line backup as the ultimate solution , even claiming that other backups are no longer needed .
Not that I would disagree with an automatic off-site backup , but you must allow for the company to go belly up.In my research for them , I found that DataDepositBox.com is popular .
However , from my communications with the company , it is clear that their admins are capable of changing your password and getting access to your key .
I am not saying they are not a reputable service , nor that their staff are morally challenged .
I am just stating the fact is that the company has the ability to access your data and they even claim they will provide your data to any government agency that properly requests it .
Also , you will never have access to your encryption key , other than through them.According to their terms of service , they only need to post information on their website prior to any discontinuation of service.The key take away is that you must encrypt your data before you send it and there is always a chance they will not be there to provide your key to you when you may need them most .
I am trying to explain this to my client , but they just bobble head what their family member told them .
They seem to wish to ignore my recommendation of using an off-site backup along with a on-site tape or disk backup .
The cloud is cool and slick , but you have to understand the limitations.,The DRM issue is far worst for , from the outset , you are forced into a data lost potential you can never extricate yourself from .
With all other cloud services , you have control of the data at some point .
If , you lose anything , it is your fault .
DRM just screws you over and you just await the ticking bomb to go off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This goes beyond DRM media offerings.
This covers any cloud provided service.An example is a client where a "knowledgeable" family member keeps pushing on-line backup as the ultimate solution, even claiming that other backups are no longer needed.
Not that I would disagree with an automatic off-site backup, but you must allow for the company to go belly up.In my research for them, I found that DataDepositBox.com is popular.
However, from my communications with the company, it is clear that their admins are capable of changing your password and getting access to your key.
I am not saying they are not a reputable service, nor that their staff are morally challenged.
I am just stating the fact is that the company has the ability to access your data and they even claim they will provide your data to any government agency that properly requests it.
Also, you will never have access to your encryption key, other than through them.According to their terms of service, they only need to post information on their website prior to any discontinuation of service.The key take away is that you must encrypt your data before you send it and there is always a chance they will not be there to provide your key to you when you may need them most.
I am trying to explain this to my client, but they just bobble head what their family member told them.
They seem to wish to ignore my recommendation of using an off-site backup along with a on-site tape or disk backup.
The cloud is cool and slick, but you have to understand the limitations.,The DRM issue is far worst for, from the outset, you are forced into a data lost potential you can never extricate yourself from.
With all other cloud services, you have control of the data at some point.
If, you lose anything, it is your fault.
DRM just screws you over and you just await the ticking bomb to go off.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28238737</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe...</title>
	<author>nine-times</author>
	<datestamp>1244305080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Look if their business model makes them enough money to stay afloat more power to them.</p></div><p>Is that really what you want to say?  If something makes money, more power to them?  There are all sorts of business models that we make illegal, and for good reason: slave trading, hitman for hire, loan sharking, etc.
</p><p>Part of the problem is that all of these business models from record companies and movie studios are built on laws that we've put in place just to prop them up.  And you know what?  Fine.  That's what society is about.  We prop people up who are doing things we like.  But let's not pretend that they're <i>entitled</i> to profit, and we're <i>required</i> to prop them up.
</p><p>Well, anyway, the GP post wasn't talking about businesses that are making money.  SilverHatHacker was specifically talking about the businesses that have gone under.  The topic at hand is "The Perils of DRM -- When Content Providers Die" after all.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look if their business model makes them enough money to stay afloat more power to them.Is that really what you want to say ?
If something makes money , more power to them ?
There are all sorts of business models that we make illegal , and for good reason : slave trading , hitman for hire , loan sharking , etc .
Part of the problem is that all of these business models from record companies and movie studios are built on laws that we 've put in place just to prop them up .
And you know what ?
Fine. That 's what society is about .
We prop people up who are doing things we like .
But let 's not pretend that they 're entitled to profit , and we 're required to prop them up .
Well , anyway , the GP post was n't talking about businesses that are making money .
SilverHatHacker was specifically talking about the businesses that have gone under .
The topic at hand is " The Perils of DRM -- When Content Providers Die " after all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look if their business model makes them enough money to stay afloat more power to them.Is that really what you want to say?
If something makes money, more power to them?
There are all sorts of business models that we make illegal, and for good reason: slave trading, hitman for hire, loan sharking, etc.
Part of the problem is that all of these business models from record companies and movie studios are built on laws that we've put in place just to prop them up.
And you know what?
Fine.  That's what society is about.
We prop people up who are doing things we like.
But let's not pretend that they're entitled to profit, and we're required to prop them up.
Well, anyway, the GP post wasn't talking about businesses that are making money.
SilverHatHacker was specifically talking about the businesses that have gone under.
The topic at hand is "The Perils of DRM -- When Content Providers Die" after all.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234653</parent>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_06_1426235_43</id>
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28242439
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235225
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28243139
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1426235.16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233403
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234909
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233807
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28237025
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234129
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234827
</commentlist>
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1426235.23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233465
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236711
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236285
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236309
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1426235.14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233445
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234135
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28237051
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1426235.12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234829
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1426235.10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233455
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234815
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233555
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234361
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233689
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233609
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234009
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233613
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1426235.20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235655
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1426235.21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233479
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234423
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233795
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_06_1426235.19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233515
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235187
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28236037
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234223
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233749
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234247
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234097
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28233819
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28234395
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_06_1426235.28235007
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