<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_27_230227</id>
	<title>A Look Into China's Web Censorship Program</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1269687780000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>kev0153 writes <i>"MSNBC is offering a good article explaining some of the <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36041417/ns/technology\_and\_science-security/">details behind China's web censorship program</a>.  'Google's face-off with Beijing over censorship may have struck a philosophical blow for free speech and encouraged some Chinese Netizens by its sheer chutzpah, but it doesn't do a thing for Internet users in China.  Its more lasting impact may lie in the global exposure it has given to the Chinese government's complex system of censorship &ndash; an ever-shifting hodgepodge of restrictions on  what information users can access, which Web tools they can use and what ideas they can post.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>kev0153 writes " MSNBC is offering a good article explaining some of the details behind China 's web censorship program .
'Google 's face-off with Beijing over censorship may have struck a philosophical blow for free speech and encouraged some Chinese Netizens by its sheer chutzpah , but it does n't do a thing for Internet users in China .
Its more lasting impact may lie in the global exposure it has given to the Chinese government 's complex system of censorship    an ever-shifting hodgepodge of restrictions on what information users can access , which Web tools they can use and what ideas they can post .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>kev0153 writes "MSNBC is offering a good article explaining some of the details behind China's web censorship program.
'Google's face-off with Beijing over censorship may have struck a philosophical blow for free speech and encouraged some Chinese Netizens by its sheer chutzpah, but it doesn't do a thing for Internet users in China.
Its more lasting impact may lie in the global exposure it has given to the Chinese government's complex system of censorship – an ever-shifting hodgepodge of restrictions on  what information users can access, which Web tools they can use and what ideas they can post.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643464</id>
	<title>Kill the President</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269692460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Crash plane kill bomb America Quran Al-Qaeda anarchy.</p><p>Oh man, I've got a terrible headache all of the sudden.  Maybe I'll get some sleep...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Crash plane kill bomb America Quran Al-Qaeda anarchy.Oh man , I 've got a terrible headache all of the sudden .
Maybe I 'll get some sleep.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Crash plane kill bomb America Quran Al-Qaeda anarchy.Oh man, I've got a terrible headache all of the sudden.
Maybe I'll get some sleep...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31645166</id>
	<title>Re:Chinese government's "complex" as to what passe</title>
	<author>PdbAqB</author>
	<datestamp>1269712200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Australia is "under surveillance&rdquo; due to increasingly rigorous control over Internet information flows.  So what information flows between countries is not known until tested: see <a href="http://thenextweb.com/au/2010/03/12/international-org-puts-australia-onestep-internet-enemy/" title="thenextweb.com" rel="nofollow">http://thenextweb.com/au/2010/03/12/international-org-puts-australia-onestep-internet-enemy/</a> [thenextweb.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Australia is " under surveillance    due to increasingly rigorous control over Internet information flows .
So what information flows between countries is not known until tested : see http : //thenextweb.com/au/2010/03/12/international-org-puts-australia-onestep-internet-enemy/ [ thenextweb.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Australia is "under surveillance” due to increasingly rigorous control over Internet information flows.
So what information flows between countries is not known until tested: see http://thenextweb.com/au/2010/03/12/international-org-puts-australia-onestep-internet-enemy/ [thenextweb.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643520</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644226</id>
	<title>Re:Confusicanism's perspective on censorship</title>
	<author>ljgshkg</author>
	<datestamp>1269700680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're a bit twisting the meaning here if you think Confucius approves censorship. In fact, the translation is not all that correct.
<br> <br>
The first paragraph you quote is simply saying "you should put the upright in power because people respect upright, not power".
<br> <br>
The qustion part of your second quote is more like "How to cause people to reverence and loyal to their ruler, and be strive". Note that the last point is not about virtue, but striveness.
<br> <br>
The answer part of your second quote is "Act solemnly, and they will respect you. Let them filial to their parent/anybody-above-them-in-family, and let them be kind to their kids, then they will be loyal to you. Let the competent and good to teach the once who are not (yet), and they will be strive."
<br> <br>
There is nothing here to do with censorship. In fact, confucius lived in the free-est age in China when different kind of philosophy just started to flourish, trying to find a better way to rule good and end hundreds of years of endless war. And he is the one who bring all the knowledge that were held in the hand of nobles to the people. With just a small string of dry meat, he'll teach you all you can learn from him. His teaching style also encourage his students to discuss with him whatever they see or thought of in their journey around different countries in the then China. So basically, it's quite opposite to censorship.
<br> <br>
Unlike the western world back then, China never really do any real censorship ( with a few exceptions). In the culture of Chinese, people may just pretend they can't see, or just talk as "entertainment" if you do something that is not "right" in our the culture but is not breaking the most important values "visibly" or "publicly" or in more formal situations.
<br> <br>
For example, your comment about "writing sex gossip columns". China in most time in history not only has books with drawings about different "style" of sex positions. We also have private brothel and government opened once. Scholar etc. going to those places are considered not having good practise, but since it doesn't touch the most important stuff like filial to parents, people more "follow the rule" may just talk about it. But never see it as very serious. And in any period of time, there are always differnt schools of confucius taking different view among themselves or in favourite or against preious confucius scholars. They openly debate about differnet views etc. Later on, colleges are form at many places allowing schoolars to discuss and further learn or develope. At the time, colleges often represents schools of thought and they do have a relatively strong political power because traditionally, most government officals are selected through national wide exams and are often part of a certain school of confucius.
<br> <br>
So in fact, censorship has no relationship to confusius. Chinese culture's degree of acceptance in diff things is very high as long as it doesn't touch family matters (e.g. filial) and country matter (e.g. loyalty). Otherwise, you wouldn't have buddism in China since there was actually a serious discussion among the top officers during the Dynasty of Tang because some practise of buddism is against some Chinese traditions. But they finally let it pass and decide it's up to the people to decide if they accept it or not.</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're a bit twisting the meaning here if you think Confucius approves censorship .
In fact , the translation is not all that correct .
The first paragraph you quote is simply saying " you should put the upright in power because people respect upright , not power " .
The qustion part of your second quote is more like " How to cause people to reverence and loyal to their ruler , and be strive " .
Note that the last point is not about virtue , but striveness .
The answer part of your second quote is " Act solemnly , and they will respect you .
Let them filial to their parent/anybody-above-them-in-family , and let them be kind to their kids , then they will be loyal to you .
Let the competent and good to teach the once who are not ( yet ) , and they will be strive .
" There is nothing here to do with censorship .
In fact , confucius lived in the free-est age in China when different kind of philosophy just started to flourish , trying to find a better way to rule good and end hundreds of years of endless war .
And he is the one who bring all the knowledge that were held in the hand of nobles to the people .
With just a small string of dry meat , he 'll teach you all you can learn from him .
His teaching style also encourage his students to discuss with him whatever they see or thought of in their journey around different countries in the then China .
So basically , it 's quite opposite to censorship .
Unlike the western world back then , China never really do any real censorship ( with a few exceptions ) .
In the culture of Chinese , people may just pretend they ca n't see , or just talk as " entertainment " if you do something that is not " right " in our the culture but is not breaking the most important values " visibly " or " publicly " or in more formal situations .
For example , your comment about " writing sex gossip columns " .
China in most time in history not only has books with drawings about different " style " of sex positions .
We also have private brothel and government opened once .
Scholar etc .
going to those places are considered not having good practise , but since it does n't touch the most important stuff like filial to parents , people more " follow the rule " may just talk about it .
But never see it as very serious .
And in any period of time , there are always differnt schools of confucius taking different view among themselves or in favourite or against preious confucius scholars .
They openly debate about differnet views etc .
Later on , colleges are form at many places allowing schoolars to discuss and further learn or develope .
At the time , colleges often represents schools of thought and they do have a relatively strong political power because traditionally , most government officals are selected through national wide exams and are often part of a certain school of confucius .
So in fact , censorship has no relationship to confusius .
Chinese culture 's degree of acceptance in diff things is very high as long as it does n't touch family matters ( e.g .
filial ) and country matter ( e.g .
loyalty ) . Otherwise , you would n't have buddism in China since there was actually a serious discussion among the top officers during the Dynasty of Tang because some practise of buddism is against some Chinese traditions .
But they finally let it pass and decide it 's up to the people to decide if they accept it or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're a bit twisting the meaning here if you think Confucius approves censorship.
In fact, the translation is not all that correct.
The first paragraph you quote is simply saying "you should put the upright in power because people respect upright, not power".
The qustion part of your second quote is more like "How to cause people to reverence and loyal to their ruler, and be strive".
Note that the last point is not about virtue, but striveness.
The answer part of your second quote is "Act solemnly, and they will respect you.
Let them filial to their parent/anybody-above-them-in-family, and let them be kind to their kids, then they will be loyal to you.
Let the competent and good to teach the once who are not (yet), and they will be strive.
"
 
There is nothing here to do with censorship.
In fact, confucius lived in the free-est age in China when different kind of philosophy just started to flourish, trying to find a better way to rule good and end hundreds of years of endless war.
And he is the one who bring all the knowledge that were held in the hand of nobles to the people.
With just a small string of dry meat, he'll teach you all you can learn from him.
His teaching style also encourage his students to discuss with him whatever they see or thought of in their journey around different countries in the then China.
So basically, it's quite opposite to censorship.
Unlike the western world back then, China never really do any real censorship ( with a few exceptions).
In the culture of Chinese, people may just pretend they can't see, or just talk as "entertainment" if you do something that is not "right" in our the culture but is not breaking the most important values "visibly" or "publicly" or in more formal situations.
For example, your comment about "writing sex gossip columns".
China in most time in history not only has books with drawings about different "style" of sex positions.
We also have private brothel and government opened once.
Scholar etc.
going to those places are considered not having good practise, but since it doesn't touch the most important stuff like filial to parents, people more "follow the rule" may just talk about it.
But never see it as very serious.
And in any period of time, there are always differnt schools of confucius taking different view among themselves or in favourite or against preious confucius scholars.
They openly debate about differnet views etc.
Later on, colleges are form at many places allowing schoolars to discuss and further learn or develope.
At the time, colleges often represents schools of thought and they do have a relatively strong political power because traditionally, most government officals are selected through national wide exams and are often part of a certain school of confucius.
So in fact, censorship has no relationship to confusius.
Chinese culture's degree of acceptance in diff things is very high as long as it doesn't touch family matters (e.g.
filial) and country matter (e.g.
loyalty). Otherwise, you wouldn't have buddism in China since there was actually a serious discussion among the top officers during the Dynasty of Tang because some practise of buddism is against some Chinese traditions.
But they finally let it pass and decide it's up to the people to decide if they accept it or not.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643768</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644366</id>
	<title>Re:Impact</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269702240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As fewer major players operate in China, the citizens will realize the effects of censorship more.</p></div><p>Out of sight, out of mind. Major players pull out, and the people forget who they were and what they stood for. As far as Chinese government is concerned, major players with ulterior motives not having contact with their impressionable population is for the better.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As fewer major players operate in China , the citizens will realize the effects of censorship more.Out of sight , out of mind .
Major players pull out , and the people forget who they were and what they stood for .
As far as Chinese government is concerned , major players with ulterior motives not having contact with their impressionable population is for the better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As fewer major players operate in China, the citizens will realize the effects of censorship more.Out of sight, out of mind.
Major players pull out, and the people forget who they were and what they stood for.
As far as Chinese government is concerned, major players with ulterior motives not having contact with their impressionable population is for the better.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643406</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643520</id>
	<title>Chinese government's "complex" as to what passes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269693060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Our site <a href="http://1place.com.au/" title="1place.com.au" rel="nofollow">http://1place.com.au/</a> [1place.com.au] is blocked which on has our work or intellectual property generally (e.g. art events, design, patents, copyright, latest trade mark disputes, great marketing podcasts...)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....

However, the bare buttocks at the opera house as photographed by Spencer Tunick has no problems getting passed the great wall: <a href="http://thespencertunickexperience.org/2010-03\_Sydney/Sydney\_The\_Base\_2010.htm" title="thespencer...rience.org" rel="nofollow">http://thespencertunickexperience.org/2010-03\_Sydney/Sydney\_The\_Base\_2010.htm</a> [thespencer...rience.org]

I was surprised.

We were informed by a Chinese resident that: "Nudity is no probelm. It is subversive activity [of IP protection] such as your website that is blocked."</htmltext>
<tokenext>Our site http : //1place.com.au/ [ 1place.com.au ] is blocked which on has our work or intellectual property generally ( e.g .
art events , design , patents , copyright , latest trade mark disputes , great marketing podcasts... ) ... . However , the bare buttocks at the opera house as photographed by Spencer Tunick has no problems getting passed the great wall : http : //thespencertunickexperience.org/2010-03 \ _Sydney/Sydney \ _The \ _Base \ _2010.htm [ thespencer...rience.org ] I was surprised .
We were informed by a Chinese resident that : " Nudity is no probelm .
It is subversive activity [ of IP protection ] such as your website that is blocked .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our site http://1place.com.au/ [1place.com.au] is blocked which on has our work or intellectual property generally (e.g.
art events, design, patents, copyright, latest trade mark disputes, great marketing podcasts...) ....

However, the bare buttocks at the opera house as photographed by Spencer Tunick has no problems getting passed the great wall: http://thespencertunickexperience.org/2010-03\_Sydney/Sydney\_The\_Base\_2010.htm [thespencer...rience.org]

I was surprised.
We were informed by a Chinese resident that: "Nudity is no probelm.
It is subversive activity [of IP protection] such as your website that is blocked.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644038</id>
	<title>Very interesting</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269698520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can test this for yourself, got to http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010 and search for some innocuous topics, then search for 'falun gong'<br>a little taste of what it's like living under real censorship.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can test this for yourself , got to http : //news.xinhuanet.com/english2010 and search for some innocuous topics , then search for 'falun gong'a little taste of what it 's like living under real censorship .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can test this for yourself, got to http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010 and search for some innocuous topics, then search for 'falun gong'a little taste of what it's like living under real censorship.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31645296</id>
	<title>internet ban sucks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269714120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live in china since over 4 years now.</p><p>And i freaking hate the internet blockage, i mean fine they ban some terrorist websites and some weirdo p0rn from Japan, thats nice and Good (jap porn is just disgusting)</p><p>but youtube? facebook? and so on COME ON This is bullcrap.</p><p>many people fear that google and gmail get banned completly. If that happens im out, and many other guys who do business also. We already have big problems due to the firewall. And every company that uses the internet for more then just MSN can agree with me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in china since over 4 years now.And i freaking hate the internet blockage , i mean fine they ban some terrorist websites and some weirdo p0rn from Japan , thats nice and Good ( jap porn is just disgusting ) but youtube ?
facebook ? and so on COME ON This is bullcrap.many people fear that google and gmail get banned completly .
If that happens im out , and many other guys who do business also .
We already have big problems due to the firewall .
And every company that uses the internet for more then just MSN can agree with me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in china since over 4 years now.And i freaking hate the internet blockage, i mean fine they ban some terrorist websites and some weirdo p0rn from Japan, thats nice and Good (jap porn is just disgusting)but youtube?
facebook? and so on COME ON This is bullcrap.many people fear that google and gmail get banned completly.
If that happens im out, and many other guys who do business also.
We already have big problems due to the firewall.
And every company that uses the internet for more then just MSN can agree with me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643624</id>
	<title>Reset Packets</title>
	<author>cosm</author>
	<datestamp>1269694020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>FTA<p><div class="quote"><p>if an Internet surfer in China searches for...a banned and harshly suppressed religious group &mdash; the firewall responds by sending a <b>reset packet</b> to his or her computer that results in the  display of a default error page</p></div><p>These so called 'reset packets' are reminiscent of the days of ATH0++ N0 C4RR13R....so thats what happened to AOL, they migrated to china where dialup is still accepted! PRCOL FTW!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>FTAif an Internet surfer in China searches for...a banned and harshly suppressed religious group    the firewall responds by sending a reset packet to his or her computer that results in the display of a default error pageThese so called 'reset packets ' are reminiscent of the days of ATH0 + + N0 C4RR13R....so thats what happened to AOL , they migrated to china where dialup is still accepted !
PRCOL FTW !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FTAif an Internet surfer in China searches for...a banned and harshly suppressed religious group — the firewall responds by sending a reset packet to his or her computer that results in the  display of a default error pageThese so called 'reset packets' are reminiscent of the days of ATH0++ N0 C4RR13R....so thats what happened to AOL, they migrated to china where dialup is still accepted!
PRCOL FTW!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643592</id>
	<title>We're headed that way, too. Just wait till</title>
	<author>n6kuy</author>
	<datestamp>1269693780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... our Government in the United States forces it's <a href="http://www.redstate.com/neil\_stevens/2010/03/27/danger-at-the-fcc-an-omnibus-warning/" title="redstate.com">notion of "net neutrality"</a> [redstate.com] upon us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... our Government in the United States forces it 's notion of " net neutrality " [ redstate.com ] upon us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... our Government in the United States forces it's notion of "net neutrality" [redstate.com] upon us.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644018</id>
	<title>Re:Confusicanism's perspective on censorship</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269698340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt; Confucius, one of the most influential philosophers in Chinese history.</p><p>He was the most influential because some of his words made the emperor feel so good that the emperor ordered only his books be enshrined and books of all other thoughts be burned. That's the beginning of the intellectual dark age of the Chinese people. Unfortunately I don't see the end of it now as the battlefield has moved from books to the internet. The enlightenment in the west was achieved through revolution, and I wonder if we can achieve it through peaceful means.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; Confucius , one of the most influential philosophers in Chinese history.He was the most influential because some of his words made the emperor feel so good that the emperor ordered only his books be enshrined and books of all other thoughts be burned .
That 's the beginning of the intellectual dark age of the Chinese people .
Unfortunately I do n't see the end of it now as the battlefield has moved from books to the internet .
The enlightenment in the west was achieved through revolution , and I wonder if we can achieve it through peaceful means .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt; Confucius, one of the most influential philosophers in Chinese history.He was the most influential because some of his words made the emperor feel so good that the emperor ordered only his books be enshrined and books of all other thoughts be burned.
That's the beginning of the intellectual dark age of the Chinese people.
Unfortunately I don't see the end of it now as the battlefield has moved from books to the internet.
The enlightenment in the west was achieved through revolution, and I wonder if we can achieve it through peaceful means.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643768</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643426</id>
	<title>Impressions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269692040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not a bad system, install a censor in everyones head, and let the companies do it in "good faith"</p><p><div class="quote"><p>&ldquo;It means you should self-censor, limit your mind and be cautious, because you have no idea where the line is.&rdquo;</p><p>Frequently, what observers assume is blocked by Beijing, is actually taken out of the public arena by Internet companies trying to read the government&rsquo;s will, he said.</p> </div><p>And you can get kick off for hosting &ldquo;low and vulgar&rdquo; content.</p><p>Also, it seems they are still using the RST package technique, easy to circumvent with your own packet filter.</p><p>
&nbsp; &ldquo;The Internet was the Gods&rsquo; first gift to China,&rdquo; he said. &ldquo;Twitter is the second.&rdquo;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not a bad system , install a censor in everyones head , and let the companies do it in " good faith "    It means you should self-censor , limit your mind and be cautious , because you have no idea where the line is.    Frequently , what observers assume is blocked by Beijing , is actually taken out of the public arena by Internet companies trying to read the government    s will , he said .
And you can get kick off for hosting    low and vulgar    content.Also , it seems they are still using the RST package technique , easy to circumvent with your own packet filter .
     The Internet was the Gods    first gift to China ,    he said .
   Twitter is the second.   </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not a bad system, install a censor in everyones head, and let the companies do it in "good faith"“It means you should self-censor, limit your mind and be cautious, because you have no idea where the line is.”Frequently, what observers assume is blocked by Beijing, is actually taken out of the public arena by Internet companies trying to read the government’s will, he said.
And you can get kick off for hosting “low and vulgar” content.Also, it seems they are still using the RST package technique, easy to circumvent with your own packet filter.
  “The Internet was the Gods’ first gift to China,” he said.
“Twitter is the second.”
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31645634</id>
	<title>Re:Chinese government's "complex" as to what passe</title>
	<author>magores</author>
	<datestamp>1269719100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>fine in Beijing</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>fine in Beijing</tokentext>
<sentencetext>fine in Beijing</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643520</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644610</id>
	<title>python downloads blocked</title>
	<author>scheinzahm</author>
	<datestamp>1269705360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I happen to be in China for work right now and the censorship here can be really annoying at times. More often than not I surf over socks proxy and ssh tunnel because there are lots and lots of non-political areas of the net that are blocked.

For example: I noticed something funny the other day. I wanted to run a quick python script and went to the python page (python.org) to download python for windows to my enterprise box. As soon as you hit the "download" link however, you get an error message (sometimes you are also redirected to google.com.hk) and the entire python.org domain is blocked for some minutes. Seems like the censors here don't want people to use python - probably just not their kind of humor I guess<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</htmltext>
<tokenext>I happen to be in China for work right now and the censorship here can be really annoying at times .
More often than not I surf over socks proxy and ssh tunnel because there are lots and lots of non-political areas of the net that are blocked .
For example : I noticed something funny the other day .
I wanted to run a quick python script and went to the python page ( python.org ) to download python for windows to my enterprise box .
As soon as you hit the " download " link however , you get an error message ( sometimes you are also redirected to google.com.hk ) and the entire python.org domain is blocked for some minutes .
Seems like the censors here do n't want people to use python - probably just not their kind of humor I guess : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I happen to be in China for work right now and the censorship here can be really annoying at times.
More often than not I surf over socks proxy and ssh tunnel because there are lots and lots of non-political areas of the net that are blocked.
For example: I noticed something funny the other day.
I wanted to run a quick python script and went to the python page (python.org) to download python for windows to my enterprise box.
As soon as you hit the "download" link however, you get an error message (sometimes you are also redirected to google.com.hk) and the entire python.org domain is blocked for some minutes.
Seems like the censors here don't want people to use python - probably just not their kind of humor I guess :P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644410</id>
	<title>Re:I've always disliked MSNBC, and here is why</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1269702840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nah, from the view of the people (the ones who I've talked to), it's more like, "we know our government has problems, but we are willing to stay with it because it takes us in the direction we are going."  In their minds, it's more of a compromise.  We all have to compromise in order to live with other people in society.  For example, there is a tennis court near my house I can't play on, although I would like to.  My freedom to play on that court is being restricted because we've agreed to respect property rights.<br> <br>
That is how they see it: as a necessary evil, and a compromise.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nah , from the view of the people ( the ones who I 've talked to ) , it 's more like , " we know our government has problems , but we are willing to stay with it because it takes us in the direction we are going .
" In their minds , it 's more of a compromise .
We all have to compromise in order to live with other people in society .
For example , there is a tennis court near my house I ca n't play on , although I would like to .
My freedom to play on that court is being restricted because we 've agreed to respect property rights .
That is how they see it : as a necessary evil , and a compromise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nah, from the view of the people (the ones who I've talked to), it's more like, "we know our government has problems, but we are willing to stay with it because it takes us in the direction we are going.
"  In their minds, it's more of a compromise.
We all have to compromise in order to live with other people in society.
For example, there is a tennis court near my house I can't play on, although I would like to.
My freedom to play on that court is being restricted because we've agreed to respect property rights.
That is how they see it: as a necessary evil, and a compromise.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643730</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643730</id>
	<title>I've always disliked MSNBC, and here is why</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269695160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>FTA<p><div class="quote"><p>To be sure, most of China&rsquo;s 384 million Internet users log on for mundane reasons that don&rsquo;t challenge the limits of free speech. A lot of Chinese citizens also accept the notion that stability and continued economic growth depend on government controls, including censorship.</p> </div><p>WTF? Does this ring 1984 to anybody? "Sure its oppression, but its okay. The people prefer it this way." What kind of asinine journalism is that?!? It seems to me much more likely that the people just don't dare speak up against it, rather than that they are willing and happy to be controlled by Big Brother.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>FTATo be sure , most of China    s 384 million Internet users log on for mundane reasons that don    t challenge the limits of free speech .
A lot of Chinese citizens also accept the notion that stability and continued economic growth depend on government controls , including censorship .
WTF ? Does this ring 1984 to anybody ?
" Sure its oppression , but its okay .
The people prefer it this way .
" What kind of asinine journalism is that ? ! ?
It seems to me much more likely that the people just do n't dare speak up against it , rather than that they are willing and happy to be controlled by Big Brother .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FTATo be sure, most of China’s 384 million Internet users log on for mundane reasons that don’t challenge the limits of free speech.
A lot of Chinese citizens also accept the notion that stability and continued economic growth depend on government controls, including censorship.
WTF? Does this ring 1984 to anybody?
"Sure its oppression, but its okay.
The people prefer it this way.
" What kind of asinine journalism is that?!?
It seems to me much more likely that the people just don't dare speak up against it, rather than that they are willing and happy to be controlled by Big Brother.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643974</id>
	<title>Re:I've always disliked MSNBC, and here is why</title>
	<author>Low Ranked Craig</author>
	<datestamp>1269697980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's MSNBC, you were expecting something different?</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's MSNBC , you were expecting something different ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's MSNBC, you were expecting something different?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643730</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643814</id>
	<title>Re:a government that fears its own people is weak</title>
	<author>aekafan</author>
	<datestamp>1269696300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>but what if the government doesn't fear its people and in fact, the people support its actions for the most part.  Sure there is some dissent here and there, but no major free speech effort because the people dont want it.  Liberty as we know it is a western concept.  I dont think that of the 1.3 billion people in china, there are many who want it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>but what if the government does n't fear its people and in fact , the people support its actions for the most part .
Sure there is some dissent here and there , but no major free speech effort because the people dont want it .
Liberty as we know it is a western concept .
I dont think that of the 1.3 billion people in china , there are many who want it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but what if the government doesn't fear its people and in fact, the people support its actions for the most part.
Sure there is some dissent here and there, but no major free speech effort because the people dont want it.
Liberty as we know it is a western concept.
I dont think that of the 1.3 billion people in china, there are many who want it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643490</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643458</id>
	<title>Censorship Program?</title>
	<author>WrongSizeGlass</author>
	<datestamp>1269692400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Censorship <i>Program</i>? That sounds like some kind of opt-in add-on to their internet service. I don't think I'll be signing up for that one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Censorship Program ?
That sounds like some kind of opt-in add-on to their internet service .
I do n't think I 'll be signing up for that one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Censorship Program?
That sounds like some kind of opt-in add-on to their internet service.
I don't think I'll be signing up for that one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644276</id>
	<title>light skinned black</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269701160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get real people, there is censorship everywhere (slashdot story yesterday about net filtering in schools<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...).</p><p>Reminds me of somebody saying she preferred light skinned blacks (light-skinned/dark-skinned, at the end of the day both versions are still blacks).</p><p>And I don't know what childhood trauma some posters have endured, but they need to channel their anger at some activity other than lecturing random people about how their own assholes don't stink.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get real people , there is censorship everywhere ( slashdot story yesterday about net filtering in schools ... ) .Reminds me of somebody saying she preferred light skinned blacks ( light-skinned/dark-skinned , at the end of the day both versions are still blacks ) .And I do n't know what childhood trauma some posters have endured , but they need to channel their anger at some activity other than lecturing random people about how their own assholes do n't stink .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get real people, there is censorship everywhere (slashdot story yesterday about net filtering in schools ...).Reminds me of somebody saying she preferred light skinned blacks (light-skinned/dark-skinned, at the end of the day both versions are still blacks).And I don't know what childhood trauma some posters have endured, but they need to channel their anger at some activity other than lecturing random people about how their own assholes don't stink.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644288</id>
	<title>There is something to do</title>
	<author>h00manist</author>
	<datestamp>1269701220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is always something that can be done.  Doesn't mean it's easy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is always something that can be done .
Does n't mean it 's easy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is always something that can be done.
Doesn't mean it's easy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31645086</id>
	<title>Re:a government that fears its own people is weak</title>
	<author>nobodie</author>
	<datestamp>1269710940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, yes and no. The Chinese people, for the most part, understand the reality of the current situation. They know they are censored and controlled and treated like children. They accept it because it has always been this way and (most importantly) because revolution or any rapid and radical change (whatever you choose to name it) would be so horrible that no one really wants to think about it. An explosive upwelling, caused by major economic downturn would be so disruptive and destructive that the total cost would be<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... I just can't imagine what a bloodbath it would be. Think French revolution kind of bloodbath but with a million times the population. This is what the Chinese people recognize as the cost of instability, so they are willing to accept whatever their government says they must have to maintain stability. Now, I know, and maybe you do as well that the government course is also about enriching the top 1 percent of fat greasy men who pull the strings. They are also the ones who will be gone when the whole thing melts down, but for now they are holding it all together. I see posts below that talk about fear, the fear here is real and it is not really people afraid of the government, it is people afraid of the absence of government as well as government afraid of people out of their control.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , yes and no .
The Chinese people , for the most part , understand the reality of the current situation .
They know they are censored and controlled and treated like children .
They accept it because it has always been this way and ( most importantly ) because revolution or any rapid and radical change ( whatever you choose to name it ) would be so horrible that no one really wants to think about it .
An explosive upwelling , caused by major economic downturn would be so disruptive and destructive that the total cost would be ... I just ca n't imagine what a bloodbath it would be .
Think French revolution kind of bloodbath but with a million times the population .
This is what the Chinese people recognize as the cost of instability , so they are willing to accept whatever their government says they must have to maintain stability .
Now , I know , and maybe you do as well that the government course is also about enriching the top 1 percent of fat greasy men who pull the strings .
They are also the ones who will be gone when the whole thing melts down , but for now they are holding it all together .
I see posts below that talk about fear , the fear here is real and it is not really people afraid of the government , it is people afraid of the absence of government as well as government afraid of people out of their control .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, yes and no.
The Chinese people, for the most part, understand the reality of the current situation.
They know they are censored and controlled and treated like children.
They accept it because it has always been this way and (most importantly) because revolution or any rapid and radical change (whatever you choose to name it) would be so horrible that no one really wants to think about it.
An explosive upwelling, caused by major economic downturn would be so disruptive and destructive that the total cost would be ... I just can't imagine what a bloodbath it would be.
Think French revolution kind of bloodbath but with a million times the population.
This is what the Chinese people recognize as the cost of instability, so they are willing to accept whatever their government says they must have to maintain stability.
Now, I know, and maybe you do as well that the government course is also about enriching the top 1 percent of fat greasy men who pull the strings.
They are also the ones who will be gone when the whole thing melts down, but for now they are holding it all together.
I see posts below that talk about fear, the fear here is real and it is not really people afraid of the government, it is people afraid of the absence of government as well as government afraid of people out of their control.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643490</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644180</id>
	<title>Thick as a brick..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269700200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Both governments are living in the past.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Both governments are living in the past .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Both governments are living in the past.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31647290</id>
	<title>Bigger News</title>
	<author>Prodigal86sc</author>
	<datestamp>1269791520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know we're all concerned with China's web censorship (I certainly am; I live in China).
But the ChinaDaily is reporting that the Chinese are *controlling the weather!*
<a href="http://www.chinadaily.cn/china/2010-03/28/content\_9652977.htm" title="chinadaily.cn" rel="nofollow">http://www.chinadaily.cn/china/2010-03/28/content\_9652977.htm</a> [chinadaily.cn] (Sorry, I don't know how to make links in this dialog).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know we 're all concerned with China 's web censorship ( I certainly am ; I live in China ) .
But the ChinaDaily is reporting that the Chinese are * controlling the weather !
* http : //www.chinadaily.cn/china/2010-03/28/content \ _9652977.htm [ chinadaily.cn ] ( Sorry , I do n't know how to make links in this dialog ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know we're all concerned with China's web censorship (I certainly am; I live in China).
But the ChinaDaily is reporting that the Chinese are *controlling the weather!
*
http://www.chinadaily.cn/china/2010-03/28/content\_9652977.htm [chinadaily.cn] (Sorry, I don't know how to make links in this dialog).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644454</id>
	<title>Re:I've always disliked MSNBC, and here is why</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269703440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p> most of China&rsquo;s 384 million Internet users log on for mundane reasons that don&rsquo;t challenge the limits of free speech.</p></div></div><p>Here's an anecdotal reference you can identify with:</p><p>How often have YOU logged on to the internet for the purpose of speaking against YOUR government? How about some proof if you have, link to YOUR contributions(articles/posts/blog/etc).</p><p><b>Most</b> of internet users aren't online to speak up against their government. We just want our LOLCAT, 4chan, and YouTube.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>most of China    s 384 million Internet users log on for mundane reasons that don    t challenge the limits of free speech.Here 's an anecdotal reference you can identify with : How often have YOU logged on to the internet for the purpose of speaking against YOUR government ?
How about some proof if you have , link to YOUR contributions ( articles/posts/blog/etc ) .Most of internet users are n't online to speak up against their government .
We just want our LOLCAT , 4chan , and YouTube .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> most of China’s 384 million Internet users log on for mundane reasons that don’t challenge the limits of free speech.Here's an anecdotal reference you can identify with:How often have YOU logged on to the internet for the purpose of speaking against YOUR government?
How about some proof if you have, link to YOUR contributions(articles/posts/blog/etc).Most of internet users aren't online to speak up against their government.
We just want our LOLCAT, 4chan, and YouTube.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643730</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31646516</id>
	<title>Re:Chinese government's "complex" as to what passe</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269781260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You might be happy to know your site is in fact not blocked at all. Or maybe not anymore.  From Shanghai at least (policy differs abit among<br>some ISPs over here). There are not that many sites falling under the block. Although a few big ones do. And there are different types of blocks as well. Some (but few)<br>are just broken DNS records, and some are the tcp resets that get triggered by keywords.  In fact I would go so far as to see no info is really blocked. You can see nearly everything if you keep searching. But some particular websites are blocked. It is a pretty broken system all in all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You might be happy to know your site is in fact not blocked at all .
Or maybe not anymore .
From Shanghai at least ( policy differs abit amongsome ISPs over here ) .
There are not that many sites falling under the block .
Although a few big ones do .
And there are different types of blocks as well .
Some ( but few ) are just broken DNS records , and some are the tcp resets that get triggered by keywords .
In fact I would go so far as to see no info is really blocked .
You can see nearly everything if you keep searching .
But some particular websites are blocked .
It is a pretty broken system all in all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You might be happy to know your site is in fact not blocked at all.
Or maybe not anymore.
From Shanghai at least (policy differs abit amongsome ISPs over here).
There are not that many sites falling under the block.
Although a few big ones do.
And there are different types of blocks as well.
Some (but few)are just broken DNS records, and some are the tcp resets that get triggered by keywords.
In fact I would go so far as to see no info is really blocked.
You can see nearly everything if you keep searching.
But some particular websites are blocked.
It is a pretty broken system all in all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643520</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643906</id>
	<title>MSNBC</title>
	<author>onefriedrice</author>
	<datestamp>1269696960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"MSNBC is offering a good article..."</p></div><p>You lost me there.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" MSNBC is offering a good article... " You lost me there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"MSNBC is offering a good article..."You lost me there.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643490</id>
	<title>a government that fears its own people is weak</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1269692760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>governments work when they rule by consensus. but when they need coercion to rule, they are weak, and their days are numbered. when, not if, the chinese economy takes a downturn (no economy grows forever), the people will inevitably grumble. but if they can't even grumble, it's not "harmonious", we shall begin to see an unraveling of faith in the government, like we see in tehran</p><p>why does the chinese government fear the words of its own people?</p><p>it lays bare the fact that their agenda is not the agenda of their own people</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>governments work when they rule by consensus .
but when they need coercion to rule , they are weak , and their days are numbered .
when , not if , the chinese economy takes a downturn ( no economy grows forever ) , the people will inevitably grumble .
but if they ca n't even grumble , it 's not " harmonious " , we shall begin to see an unraveling of faith in the government , like we see in tehranwhy does the chinese government fear the words of its own people ? it lays bare the fact that their agenda is not the agenda of their own people</tokentext>
<sentencetext>governments work when they rule by consensus.
but when they need coercion to rule, they are weak, and their days are numbered.
when, not if, the chinese economy takes a downturn (no economy grows forever), the people will inevitably grumble.
but if they can't even grumble, it's not "harmonious", we shall begin to see an unraveling of faith in the government, like we see in tehranwhy does the chinese government fear the words of its own people?it lays bare the fact that their agenda is not the agenda of their own people</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644556</id>
	<title>Re:Confusicanism's perspective on censorship</title>
	<author>Dave Emami</author>
	<datestamp>1269704700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>You quote Confucius, I'll quote Lao Tzu (founder of Taoism):<p><div class="quote"><p>A leader is best when people barely know that he exists, not so good when people obey and acclaim him, worst when they despise him. Fail to honor people, They fail to honor you. But of a good leader, who talks little, when his work is done, his aims fulfilled, they will all say, "We did this ourselves."</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>As restrictions and prohibitions are multiplied in the Empire, the people grow poorer and poorer. When the people are subjected to overmuch government, the land is thrown into confusion. When the people are skilled in many cunning arts, strange are the objects of luxury that appear. The greater the number of laws and enactments, the more thieves and robbers there will be. Therefore the Sage says: "So long as I do nothing, the people will work out their own reformation. So long as I love calm, the people will right themselves. If only I keep from meddling, the people will grow rich."</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>If the government is sluggish and tolerant, the people will be honest and free from guile. If the government is prying and meddling, there will be constant infraction of the law. Is the government corrupt? Then uprightness becomes rare, and goodness becomes strange.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You quote Confucius , I 'll quote Lao Tzu ( founder of Taoism ) : A leader is best when people barely know that he exists , not so good when people obey and acclaim him , worst when they despise him .
Fail to honor people , They fail to honor you .
But of a good leader , who talks little , when his work is done , his aims fulfilled , they will all say , " We did this ourselves .
" As restrictions and prohibitions are multiplied in the Empire , the people grow poorer and poorer .
When the people are subjected to overmuch government , the land is thrown into confusion .
When the people are skilled in many cunning arts , strange are the objects of luxury that appear .
The greater the number of laws and enactments , the more thieves and robbers there will be .
Therefore the Sage says : " So long as I do nothing , the people will work out their own reformation .
So long as I love calm , the people will right themselves .
If only I keep from meddling , the people will grow rich .
" If the government is sluggish and tolerant , the people will be honest and free from guile .
If the government is prying and meddling , there will be constant infraction of the law .
Is the government corrupt ?
Then uprightness becomes rare , and goodness becomes strange .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You quote Confucius, I'll quote Lao Tzu (founder of Taoism):A leader is best when people barely know that he exists, not so good when people obey and acclaim him, worst when they despise him.
Fail to honor people, They fail to honor you.
But of a good leader, who talks little, when his work is done, his aims fulfilled, they will all say, "We did this ourselves.
"As restrictions and prohibitions are multiplied in the Empire, the people grow poorer and poorer.
When the people are subjected to overmuch government, the land is thrown into confusion.
When the people are skilled in many cunning arts, strange are the objects of luxury that appear.
The greater the number of laws and enactments, the more thieves and robbers there will be.
Therefore the Sage says: "So long as I do nothing, the people will work out their own reformation.
So long as I love calm, the people will right themselves.
If only I keep from meddling, the people will grow rich.
"If the government is sluggish and tolerant, the people will be honest and free from guile.
If the government is prying and meddling, there will be constant infraction of the law.
Is the government corrupt?
Then uprightness becomes rare, and goodness becomes strange.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643768</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644384</id>
	<title>Re:Confusicanism's perspective on censorship</title>
	<author>astar</author>
	<datestamp>1269702540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>there was about 20 years, probably in the 1400's, when the vatican was completely accepting of confusianism.  one could think china was soon to be Christian.  some european nasties screwed it up on purpose.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>there was about 20 years , probably in the 1400 's , when the vatican was completely accepting of confusianism .
one could think china was soon to be Christian .
some european nasties screwed it up on purpose .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>there was about 20 years, probably in the 1400's, when the vatican was completely accepting of confusianism.
one could think china was soon to be Christian.
some european nasties screwed it up on purpose.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643768</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643460</id>
	<title>google leaving does help chinese citizens</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269692400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google leaving China does do something for Chinese citizens -- it makes them wonder why Google pulled out. The Chinese govt. will have a difficult time offering a convincing explanation that isn't embarrassing. More convincing explanations will be found elsewhere on the internet, leading more people to distrust the Chinese government and start getting their news elsewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google leaving China does do something for Chinese citizens -- it makes them wonder why Google pulled out .
The Chinese govt .
will have a difficult time offering a convincing explanation that is n't embarrassing .
More convincing explanations will be found elsewhere on the internet , leading more people to distrust the Chinese government and start getting their news elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google leaving China does do something for Chinese citizens -- it makes them wonder why Google pulled out.
The Chinese govt.
will have a difficult time offering a convincing explanation that isn't embarrassing.
More convincing explanations will be found elsewhere on the internet, leading more people to distrust the Chinese government and start getting their news elsewhere.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643670</id>
	<title>MS NBC</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269694440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fair, impartial and unbiased reporting from <b>MS</b>NBC, right?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fair , impartial and unbiased reporting from MSNBC , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fair, impartial and unbiased reporting from MSNBC, right?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643396</id>
	<title>a look into a brown eye</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269691740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>goatse!</htmltext>
<tokenext>goatse !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>goatse!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644378</id>
	<title>Re:I've always disliked MSNBC, and here is why</title>
	<author>koxkoxkox</author>
	<datestamp>1269702480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So in order to be good journalism, it has to say what you want to hear ? Really ? I live in China and I wouldn't say that Chinese are willing and happy to be controlled, but most of them don't care that much to be honest. They are not very interested in politics, don't visit much Facebook or Youtube<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So in order to be good journalism , it has to say what you want to hear ?
Really ?
I live in China and I would n't say that Chinese are willing and happy to be controlled , but most of them do n't care that much to be honest .
They are not very interested in politics , do n't visit much Facebook or Youtube .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So in order to be good journalism, it has to say what you want to hear ?
Really ?
I live in China and I wouldn't say that Chinese are willing and happy to be controlled, but most of them don't care that much to be honest.
They are not very interested in politics, don't visit much Facebook or Youtube ...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643730</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643768</id>
	<title>Confusicanism's perspective on censorship</title>
	<author>TheNarrator</author>
	<datestamp>1269695820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Confucius, one of the most influential philosophers in Chinese history.  He has something to say about censorship and the role that the government should play in communicating with the people that I think makes what the Chinese are trying to accomplish a bit clearer:</p><blockquote><div><p>XIX. The Duke Gae asked, saying, &ldquo;What should be done in order to secure the submission of the people.&rdquo; Confucius replied, &ldquo;Advance the upright and set aside the crooked, then the people will submit. Advance the crooked and set aside the upright, then the people will not submit.&rdquo;</p><p>XX. Ke K&lsquo;ang asked how to cause the people to reverence their ruler, to be faithful to him, and to urge themselves to virtue. The Master said, &ldquo;Let him preside over them with gravity;&mdash;then they will reverence him. Let him be filial and kind to all;&mdash;then they will be faithful to him. Let him advance the good and teach the incompetent;&mdash;then they will eagerly seek to be virtuous.&rdquo;</p></div></blockquote><p><a href="http://olldownload.libertyfund.org/?option=com\_staticxt&amp;staticfile=show.php\%3Ftitle=2270&amp;chapter=213621&amp;layout=html&amp;Itemid=27" title="libertyfund.org"> Source</a> [libertyfund.org]</p><p>So notice how Chinese censorship not only applies to political messages but also to non-political messages that are deemed to not be representative of virtue.  They shutdown people who have stock tip blogs, who are writing sex gossip columns, who become popular in signing and dancing competitions and professional sports culture.  They don't want people who the government considers to be not good role models for the people to achieve any degree of fame.  The government would never permit the kind of gangster/mafia glorifying culture in China which is so popular in many parts of the rest of the world no matter how non-poltiical.</p><p>BTW, I urge anyone who wants to understand China better to read Confucius.  He was writing in about 200BCE, before China had any contact at all with the West so in order to fully appreciate it, one has to temporarily disregard everything one is familiar with in the western traditions and carefully digest his words.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Confucius , one of the most influential philosophers in Chinese history .
He has something to say about censorship and the role that the government should play in communicating with the people that I think makes what the Chinese are trying to accomplish a bit clearer : XIX .
The Duke Gae asked , saying ,    What should be done in order to secure the submission of the people.    Confucius replied ,    Advance the upright and set aside the crooked , then the people will submit .
Advance the crooked and set aside the upright , then the people will not submit.    XX .
Ke K    ang asked how to cause the people to reverence their ruler , to be faithful to him , and to urge themselves to virtue .
The Master said ,    Let him preside over them with gravity ;    then they will reverence him .
Let him be filial and kind to all ;    then they will be faithful to him .
Let him advance the good and teach the incompetent ;    then they will eagerly seek to be virtuous.    Source [ libertyfund.org ] So notice how Chinese censorship not only applies to political messages but also to non-political messages that are deemed to not be representative of virtue .
They shutdown people who have stock tip blogs , who are writing sex gossip columns , who become popular in signing and dancing competitions and professional sports culture .
They do n't want people who the government considers to be not good role models for the people to achieve any degree of fame .
The government would never permit the kind of gangster/mafia glorifying culture in China which is so popular in many parts of the rest of the world no matter how non-poltiical.BTW , I urge anyone who wants to understand China better to read Confucius .
He was writing in about 200BCE , before China had any contact at all with the West so in order to fully appreciate it , one has to temporarily disregard everything one is familiar with in the western traditions and carefully digest his words .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Confucius, one of the most influential philosophers in Chinese history.
He has something to say about censorship and the role that the government should play in communicating with the people that I think makes what the Chinese are trying to accomplish a bit clearer:XIX.
The Duke Gae asked, saying, “What should be done in order to secure the submission of the people.” Confucius replied, “Advance the upright and set aside the crooked, then the people will submit.
Advance the crooked and set aside the upright, then the people will not submit.”XX.
Ke K‘ang asked how to cause the people to reverence their ruler, to be faithful to him, and to urge themselves to virtue.
The Master said, “Let him preside over them with gravity;—then they will reverence him.
Let him be filial and kind to all;—then they will be faithful to him.
Let him advance the good and teach the incompetent;—then they will eagerly seek to be virtuous.” Source [libertyfund.org]So notice how Chinese censorship not only applies to political messages but also to non-political messages that are deemed to not be representative of virtue.
They shutdown people who have stock tip blogs, who are writing sex gossip columns, who become popular in signing and dancing competitions and professional sports culture.
They don't want people who the government considers to be not good role models for the people to achieve any degree of fame.
The government would never permit the kind of gangster/mafia glorifying culture in China which is so popular in many parts of the rest of the world no matter how non-poltiical.BTW, I urge anyone who wants to understand China better to read Confucius.
He was writing in about 200BCE, before China had any contact at all with the West so in order to fully appreciate it, one has to temporarily disregard everything one is familiar with in the western traditions and carefully digest his words.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31644574</id>
	<title>Re:google leaving does help chinese citizens</title>
	<author>h00manist</author>
	<datestamp>1269704820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Google leaving China does do something for Chinese citizens -- it makes them wonder why Google pulled out. </p></div><p>China is good at manipulation. They have published stories of their own named <a href="http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/indepth/2010-03/26/c\_13225438.htm" title="xinhuanet.com">Google is not god.</a> [xinhuanet.com] </p><p><div class="quote"><p>The The Chinese govt. will have a difficult time offering a convincing explanation that isn't embarrassing. More convincing explanations will be found elsewhere on the internet, leading more people to distrust the Chinese government and start getting their news elsewhere.</p></div><p>There is no elsewhere for news for the 99\% who are afraid or unable to bypass the restrictions. Governments can and do that, in any country.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Google leaving China does do something for Chinese citizens -- it makes them wonder why Google pulled out .
China is good at manipulation .
They have published stories of their own named Google is not god .
[ xinhuanet.com ] The The Chinese govt .
will have a difficult time offering a convincing explanation that is n't embarrassing .
More convincing explanations will be found elsewhere on the internet , leading more people to distrust the Chinese government and start getting their news elsewhere.There is no elsewhere for news for the 99 \ % who are afraid or unable to bypass the restrictions .
Governments can and do that , in any country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google leaving China does do something for Chinese citizens -- it makes them wonder why Google pulled out.
China is good at manipulation.
They have published stories of their own named Google is not god.
[xinhuanet.com] The The Chinese govt.
will have a difficult time offering a convincing explanation that isn't embarrassing.
More convincing explanations will be found elsewhere on the internet, leading more people to distrust the Chinese government and start getting their news elsewhere.There is no elsewhere for news for the 99\% who are afraid or unable to bypass the restrictions.
Governments can and do that, in any country.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643744</id>
	<title>How to beat the Chinese FW</title>
	<author>sebaseba</author>
	<datestamp>1269695400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>A friend has recently been to China, that is PRC. IRC worked normally, although he couldn't access facebook.

So I've set up a normal HTTP proxy which was blocked immediately after the first page shown (facebook.com). IIRC it didn't even resolve facebook.com, we've had to put IPs in... but still my point is: they analyze the packets and they've seen the CONNECT in HTTP headers as it worked only on once request.

After that I've set an another proxy (on an another IP), this time HTTPS. That worked, although you must route DNS requests somehow outside China or have a local nslookup table<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</htmltext>
<tokenext>A friend has recently been to China , that is PRC .
IRC worked normally , although he could n't access facebook .
So I 've set up a normal HTTP proxy which was blocked immediately after the first page shown ( facebook.com ) .
IIRC it did n't even resolve facebook.com , we 've had to put IPs in... but still my point is : they analyze the packets and they 've seen the CONNECT in HTTP headers as it worked only on once request .
After that I 've set an another proxy ( on an another IP ) , this time HTTPS .
That worked , although you must route DNS requests somehow outside China or have a local nslookup table ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A friend has recently been to China, that is PRC.
IRC worked normally, although he couldn't access facebook.
So I've set up a normal HTTP proxy which was blocked immediately after the first page shown (facebook.com).
IIRC it didn't even resolve facebook.com, we've had to put IPs in... but still my point is: they analyze the packets and they've seen the CONNECT in HTTP headers as it worked only on once request.
After that I've set an another proxy (on an another IP), this time HTTPS.
That worked, although you must route DNS requests somehow outside China or have a local nslookup table ;)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643406</id>
	<title>Impact</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269691860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sure many citizens are content to accept censorship, because the impact is minimal. It isn't worth risking upheaval if they feel they don't have much to gain.</p><p>As fewer major players operate in China, the citizens will realize the effects of censorship more.</p><p>Doing so encourages the citizens of China to push for an end to censorship.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sure many citizens are content to accept censorship , because the impact is minimal .
It is n't worth risking upheaval if they feel they do n't have much to gain.As fewer major players operate in China , the citizens will realize the effects of censorship more.Doing so encourages the citizens of China to push for an end to censorship .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sure many citizens are content to accept censorship, because the impact is minimal.
It isn't worth risking upheaval if they feel they don't have much to gain.As fewer major players operate in China, the citizens will realize the effects of censorship more.Doing so encourages the citizens of China to push for an end to censorship.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31645032</id>
	<title>Re:a government that fears its own people is weak</title>
	<author>clarkkent09</author>
	<datestamp>1269710340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>That sure sounds nice but 65 million died of famine under Mao and the Communists are still in power 50 years later and his pictures are still everywhere. Seems like that unraveling is taking a while.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That sure sounds nice but 65 million died of famine under Mao and the Communists are still in power 50 years later and his pictures are still everywhere .
Seems like that unraveling is taking a while .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That sure sounds nice but 65 million died of famine under Mao and the Communists are still in power 50 years later and his pictures are still everywhere.
Seems like that unraveling is taking a while.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_27_230227.31643490</parent>
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