<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_26_2322208</id>
	<title>Energy Star Program Certifies 15 Out of 20 Bogus Products</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1269603360000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>longacre writes <i>"A Gasoline-Powered Alarm Clock was among <a href="http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4350335.html">15 bogus products granted the coveted  Energy Star seal of approval</a> by the US Environmental Protection Agency during a secret evaluation conducted by the Government Accountability Office. In addition, four fictional manufacturers run by fake people and marketed with crummy websites &mdash; <a href="http://www.coolrapport.com/">Cool Rapport</a> (HVAC equipment), <a href="http://www.futurizonsolarinnovations.com/">Futurizon Solar Innovations</a> (lighting), <a href="http://spartandigitalelectronics.com/">Spartan Digital Electronics</a>, and <a href="http://tropicalthunderonline.com/">Tropical Thunder Appliances</a> &mdash; were granted Energy Star partnerships. The root of the problem: Manufacturers need only submit photos and not actual examples of their products, and they submit their own efficiency ratings, which are not independently verified by the EPA."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>longacre writes " A Gasoline-Powered Alarm Clock was among 15 bogus products granted the coveted Energy Star seal of approval by the US Environmental Protection Agency during a secret evaluation conducted by the Government Accountability Office .
In addition , four fictional manufacturers run by fake people and marketed with crummy websites    Cool Rapport ( HVAC equipment ) , Futurizon Solar Innovations ( lighting ) , Spartan Digital Electronics , and Tropical Thunder Appliances    were granted Energy Star partnerships .
The root of the problem : Manufacturers need only submit photos and not actual examples of their products , and they submit their own efficiency ratings , which are not independently verified by the EPA .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>longacre writes "A Gasoline-Powered Alarm Clock was among 15 bogus products granted the coveted  Energy Star seal of approval by the US Environmental Protection Agency during a secret evaluation conducted by the Government Accountability Office.
In addition, four fictional manufacturers run by fake people and marketed with crummy websites — Cool Rapport (HVAC equipment), Futurizon Solar Innovations (lighting), Spartan Digital Electronics, and Tropical Thunder Appliances — were granted Energy Star partnerships.
The root of the problem: Manufacturers need only submit photos and not actual examples of their products, and they submit their own efficiency ratings, which are not independently verified by the EPA.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31635840</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>517714</author>
	<datestamp>1269617100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Let's tally this up - Six figure salary, Drives an Audi, Lives in NYC.  Yeah we are all very impressed - were you wearing an Armani suit at the time?  The reason your telecommunications cost so much?  You live in NYC.  The reason for the shittiest service ever? You Live in NYC!  The reason you got a flat? You LIVE in NYC!    Do you see a pattern emerging yet?  NYC is not a microcosm of the US - it is an aberration.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's tally this up - Six figure salary , Drives an Audi , Lives in NYC .
Yeah we are all very impressed - were you wearing an Armani suit at the time ?
The reason your telecommunications cost so much ?
You live in NYC .
The reason for the shittiest service ever ?
You Live in NYC !
The reason you got a flat ?
You LIVE in NYC !
Do you see a pattern emerging yet ?
NYC is not a microcosm of the US - it is an aberration .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's tally this up - Six figure salary, Drives an Audi, Lives in NYC.
Yeah we are all very impressed - were you wearing an Armani suit at the time?
The reason your telecommunications cost so much?
You live in NYC.
The reason for the shittiest service ever?
You Live in NYC!
The reason you got a flat?
You LIVE in NYC!
Do you see a pattern emerging yet?
NYC is not a microcosm of the US - it is an aberration.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31639172</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>PineGreen</author>
	<datestamp>1269702480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To reply to all who are asking what is stopping me from going back to Europe: NYC is, after all, still the best of all options. In Paris one can never be French, in Tokyo one is never a Japanese and in London, food is just terrible plus jobs are rather limited in my field. I think NYC is the best place in the world to live in because it is a city of immigrants, a melting pot where there is always fun things to do. I love USA because of its multiculturalism and amazing nature, not because of its "freedoms", SUVs, etc. The problem with Americans is that they do not realise what really makes their country great and want to make it worse rather than better. The other thing: why am I not paying more in taxes: because if I paid more in taxes, this would be money thrown down the toilet. If everyone paid more in taxes, the standard of living would go up.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To reply to all who are asking what is stopping me from going back to Europe : NYC is , after all , still the best of all options .
In Paris one can never be French , in Tokyo one is never a Japanese and in London , food is just terrible plus jobs are rather limited in my field .
I think NYC is the best place in the world to live in because it is a city of immigrants , a melting pot where there is always fun things to do .
I love USA because of its multiculturalism and amazing nature , not because of its " freedoms " , SUVs , etc .
The problem with Americans is that they do not realise what really makes their country great and want to make it worse rather than better .
The other thing : why am I not paying more in taxes : because if I paid more in taxes , this would be money thrown down the toilet .
If everyone paid more in taxes , the standard of living would go up .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>To reply to all who are asking what is stopping me from going back to Europe: NYC is, after all, still the best of all options.
In Paris one can never be French, in Tokyo one is never a Japanese and in London, food is just terrible plus jobs are rather limited in my field.
I think NYC is the best place in the world to live in because it is a city of immigrants, a melting pot where there is always fun things to do.
I love USA because of its multiculturalism and amazing nature, not because of its "freedoms", SUVs, etc.
The problem with Americans is that they do not realise what really makes their country great and want to make it worse rather than better.
The other thing: why am I not paying more in taxes: because if I paid more in taxes, this would be money thrown down the toilet.
If everyone paid more in taxes, the standard of living would go up.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31636160</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634902</id>
	<title>Regulatory capture refinement</title>
	<author>Gorimek</author>
	<datestamp>1269611700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One of the main mechanisms in "Regulatory capture" is that in order to have competent regulators, they must be hired from the same skill pool as the people working in the industry.</p><p>So the main career path for those working at the watchdog agency is to work for one of the companies they're overseeing, or less commonly, the other direction. This will at least breed an atmosphere of "being on the same team", and also gives strong incentives to outright corruption.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the main mechanisms in " Regulatory capture " is that in order to have competent regulators , they must be hired from the same skill pool as the people working in the industry.So the main career path for those working at the watchdog agency is to work for one of the companies they 're overseeing , or less commonly , the other direction .
This will at least breed an atmosphere of " being on the same team " , and also gives strong incentives to outright corruption .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the main mechanisms in "Regulatory capture" is that in order to have competent regulators, they must be hired from the same skill pool as the people working in the industry.So the main career path for those working at the watchdog agency is to work for one of the companies they're overseeing, or less commonly, the other direction.
This will at least breed an atmosphere of "being on the same team", and also gives strong incentives to outright corruption.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31636034</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>izomiac</author>
	<datestamp>1269618600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>You must remember that the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income\_Taxes\_By\_Country.svg" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">US taxes businesses</a> [wikipedia.org] more than Europe does.  So that's why some things are more expensive (think of it like a tax, just an indirect one).  OTOH, the US does seem to focus more on efficiency of services than on raw quantity.
<br> <br>
With <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_tax\_revenue\_as\_percentage\_of\_GDP" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">28\% of the GDP</a> [wikipedia.org] collected as tax revenue the US maintains a very high standard of living.  A country like Sweden has a higher standard (e.g. HDI), but IMHO they dip into diminishing returns by spending nearly 50\% of their GDP to achieve that.  Australia and Japan seem to have the best trade off, if HDI is to be believed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You must remember that the US taxes businesses [ wikipedia.org ] more than Europe does .
So that 's why some things are more expensive ( think of it like a tax , just an indirect one ) .
OTOH , the US does seem to focus more on efficiency of services than on raw quantity .
With 28 \ % of the GDP [ wikipedia.org ] collected as tax revenue the US maintains a very high standard of living .
A country like Sweden has a higher standard ( e.g .
HDI ) , but IMHO they dip into diminishing returns by spending nearly 50 \ % of their GDP to achieve that .
Australia and Japan seem to have the best trade off , if HDI is to be believed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You must remember that the US taxes businesses [wikipedia.org] more than Europe does.
So that's why some things are more expensive (think of it like a tax, just an indirect one).
OTOH, the US does seem to focus more on efficiency of services than on raw quantity.
With 28\% of the GDP [wikipedia.org] collected as tax revenue the US maintains a very high standard of living.
A country like Sweden has a higher standard (e.g.
HDI), but IMHO they dip into diminishing returns by spending nearly 50\% of their GDP to achieve that.
Australia and Japan seem to have the best trade off, if HDI is to be believed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634916</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269611820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's too bad you haven't enjoyed our semi-socialized healthcare system, where half the costs have been fronted by the government, and the other half obscured from the real purchasers by government intervention (limiting what states insurers can compete in and promoting employer-purchases insurance in lieu of insuree purchased insurance).  Unfortunately, however much it may suck in your personal experience, it's not a good example for you to cite of American capitalism failing.  Fyi, freeways are paid for entirely by the government, although if you are complaining simply about too little money being spent, you should be aware that <em>more money</em> (at least as I've heard it reported) is spent on American healthcare.

</p><p>I have to wonder what your beef is with the telecoms--do you have a landline?  Deregulation of the cellphone market is a rather famous example of where deregulation worked really well--it's an awful lot cheaper now than it used to be.

</p><p>I would like to point out that a single pothole does not a bad road make.  There are going to be anomalous potholes in the highway whether in America or Europe simply because they layout so much road (America has the largest highway system in the world, which is also the largest <em>public works</em> project in history).  In addition there may simply be a bad region (did you drive on every highway in Europe before making your comparison?) and certain areas are much more vulnerable to the formation of potholes due to local climate/terrain.  America is much less densely populated than Europe, which means we have to layout a lot more road per citizen, and so we may well be making greater expenditures with inferior results.

</p><p>The point being that you take a tremendously complex multitude of factors and simplify them all into an entirely unrepresentative anecdote.  Fyi my own experience with roads, healthcare, and phone bills has all been generally positive.

</p><p>P.S.  IANAL, but if you really "hate paying so little in taxes," I am inclined to think that the IRS would not have a problem with you writing them a bigger check.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's too bad you have n't enjoyed our semi-socialized healthcare system , where half the costs have been fronted by the government , and the other half obscured from the real purchasers by government intervention ( limiting what states insurers can compete in and promoting employer-purchases insurance in lieu of insuree purchased insurance ) .
Unfortunately , however much it may suck in your personal experience , it 's not a good example for you to cite of American capitalism failing .
Fyi , freeways are paid for entirely by the government , although if you are complaining simply about too little money being spent , you should be aware that more money ( at least as I 've heard it reported ) is spent on American healthcare .
I have to wonder what your beef is with the telecoms--do you have a landline ?
Deregulation of the cellphone market is a rather famous example of where deregulation worked really well--it 's an awful lot cheaper now than it used to be .
I would like to point out that a single pothole does not a bad road make .
There are going to be anomalous potholes in the highway whether in America or Europe simply because they layout so much road ( America has the largest highway system in the world , which is also the largest public works project in history ) .
In addition there may simply be a bad region ( did you drive on every highway in Europe before making your comparison ?
) and certain areas are much more vulnerable to the formation of potholes due to local climate/terrain .
America is much less densely populated than Europe , which means we have to layout a lot more road per citizen , and so we may well be making greater expenditures with inferior results .
The point being that you take a tremendously complex multitude of factors and simplify them all into an entirely unrepresentative anecdote .
Fyi my own experience with roads , healthcare , and phone bills has all been generally positive .
P.S. IANAL , but if you really " hate paying so little in taxes , " I am inclined to think that the IRS would not have a problem with you writing them a bigger check .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's too bad you haven't enjoyed our semi-socialized healthcare system, where half the costs have been fronted by the government, and the other half obscured from the real purchasers by government intervention (limiting what states insurers can compete in and promoting employer-purchases insurance in lieu of insuree purchased insurance).
Unfortunately, however much it may suck in your personal experience, it's not a good example for you to cite of American capitalism failing.
Fyi, freeways are paid for entirely by the government, although if you are complaining simply about too little money being spent, you should be aware that more money (at least as I've heard it reported) is spent on American healthcare.
I have to wonder what your beef is with the telecoms--do you have a landline?
Deregulation of the cellphone market is a rather famous example of where deregulation worked really well--it's an awful lot cheaper now than it used to be.
I would like to point out that a single pothole does not a bad road make.
There are going to be anomalous potholes in the highway whether in America or Europe simply because they layout so much road (America has the largest highway system in the world, which is also the largest public works project in history).
In addition there may simply be a bad region (did you drive on every highway in Europe before making your comparison?
) and certain areas are much more vulnerable to the formation of potholes due to local climate/terrain.
America is much less densely populated than Europe, which means we have to layout a lot more road per citizen, and so we may well be making greater expenditures with inferior results.
The point being that you take a tremendously complex multitude of factors and simplify them all into an entirely unrepresentative anecdote.
Fyi my own experience with roads, healthcare, and phone bills has all been generally positive.
P.S.  IANAL, but if you really "hate paying so little in taxes," I am inclined to think that the IRS would not have a problem with you writing them a bigger check.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634226</id>
	<title>Tropical Thunder Appliances?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269607260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Big Ass Titties!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Big Ass Titties !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Big Ass Titties!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31635864</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>Capt. Skinny</author>
	<datestamp>1269617460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I have a 6 figure salary and you know what: I hate paying so little in taxes</p></div><p>
At 6 figures you're paying what, about one-third of your income in Federal taxes? Would you care to enlighten us as to what would be a more appropriate distribution of the fruits of your labor between yourself and the United States? What should the extra money pay for, exactly? You mention telecom and healthcare, but paying more in taxes so we can pay less for government-subsidized phones and doctors seems like a wash to me. Either way we have to shell out.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a 6 figure salary and you know what : I hate paying so little in taxes At 6 figures you 're paying what , about one-third of your income in Federal taxes ?
Would you care to enlighten us as to what would be a more appropriate distribution of the fruits of your labor between yourself and the United States ?
What should the extra money pay for , exactly ?
You mention telecom and healthcare , but paying more in taxes so we can pay less for government-subsidized phones and doctors seems like a wash to me .
Either way we have to shell out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a 6 figure salary and you know what: I hate paying so little in taxes
At 6 figures you're paying what, about one-third of your income in Federal taxes?
Would you care to enlighten us as to what would be a more appropriate distribution of the fruits of your labor between yourself and the United States?
What should the extra money pay for, exactly?
You mention telecom and healthcare, but paying more in taxes so we can pay less for government-subsidized phones and doctors seems like a wash to me.
Either way we have to shell out.

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31636254</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269620100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is true...<br>But its also true with the US tax system.<br>Solution: audit<br>Take random sampling and test them. If they don't meet the specs the manufacturer claimed for energy star compliance then punish them severely. Furthermore let consumers report suspected false energy star claims on products and if its statistically relevant..bump them onto the audit list.</p><p>If the 'punishments' for noncompliance are severe enough then falsifying specs wont be worth it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is true...But its also true with the US tax system.Solution : auditTake random sampling and test them .
If they do n't meet the specs the manufacturer claimed for energy star compliance then punish them severely .
Furthermore let consumers report suspected false energy star claims on products and if its statistically relevant..bump them onto the audit list.If the 'punishments ' for noncompliance are severe enough then falsifying specs wont be worth it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is true...But its also true with the US tax system.Solution: auditTake random sampling and test them.
If they don't meet the specs the manufacturer claimed for energy star compliance then punish them severely.
Furthermore let consumers report suspected false energy star claims on products and if its statistically relevant..bump them onto the audit list.If the 'punishments' for noncompliance are severe enough then falsifying specs wont be worth it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634704</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>WhatAmIDoingHere</author>
	<datestamp>1269610380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The FCC manages.  Hell, they manage to test and leak pictures of upcoming sweet ass phones.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The FCC manages .
Hell , they manage to test and leak pictures of upcoming sweet ass phones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The FCC manages.
Hell, they manage to test and leak pictures of upcoming sweet ass phones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634380</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1269608220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
There's a simple solution to this....  the applicants pay a lot to get the certification already.
Use some of that money to hire more people to actually inspect the production line, pull hardware, and test.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a simple solution to this.... the applicants pay a lot to get the certification already .
Use some of that money to hire more people to actually inspect the production line , pull hardware , and test .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
There's a simple solution to this....  the applicants pay a lot to get the certification already.
Use some of that money to hire more people to actually inspect the production line, pull hardware, and test.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31637420</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>Phics</author>
	<datestamp>1269633240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.</p></div><p>Laziness comes to mind.  The EPA/DOE's <a href="http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=news.gao\_report\_response" title="energystar.gov" rel="nofollow">official response</a> [energystar.gov] to this was pretty pathetic.  From the response:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>One of the reasons the system has worked during the first 18 years of the program is that manufacturers have a market incentive to test competitors' products and report violations, which supports the program's own independent testing, verification and enforcement initiatives.</p></div><p>It's not infeasible for a single person to run a program like this, when you consider that they pretty much leave it up to the manufacturers to decide who is lying about their EnergyStar logo and who is not.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.Laziness comes to mind .
The EPA/DOE 's official response [ energystar.gov ] to this was pretty pathetic .
From the response : One of the reasons the system has worked during the first 18 years of the program is that manufacturers have a market incentive to test competitors ' products and report violations , which supports the program 's own independent testing , verification and enforcement initiatives.It 's not infeasible for a single person to run a program like this , when you consider that they pretty much leave it up to the manufacturers to decide who is lying about their EnergyStar logo and who is not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.Laziness comes to mind.
The EPA/DOE's official response [energystar.gov] to this was pretty pathetic.
From the response:One of the reasons the system has worked during the first 18 years of the program is that manufacturers have a market incentive to test competitors' products and report violations, which supports the program's own independent testing, verification and enforcement initiatives.It's not infeasible for a single person to run a program like this, when you consider that they pretty much leave it up to the manufacturers to decide who is lying about their EnergyStar logo and who is not.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634290</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>poetmatt</author>
	<datestamp>1269607620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>who said the bureacracy tests hardware? certification labs are supposed to do the testing. it sounds like they aren't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>who said the bureacracy tests hardware ?
certification labs are supposed to do the testing .
it sounds like they are n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>who said the bureacracy tests hardware?
certification labs are supposed to do the testing.
it sounds like they aren't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31635802</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>Lost+Found</author>
	<datestamp>1269616860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you operate with a government-granted monopoly, you get to do all the crazy things government does and get away with it. Especially when your phony ratings extend to things like government bonds which the government absolutely wants good ratings on, no matter how miserable their real financial picture is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you operate with a government-granted monopoly , you get to do all the crazy things government does and get away with it .
Especially when your phony ratings extend to things like government bonds which the government absolutely wants good ratings on , no matter how miserable their real financial picture is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you operate with a government-granted monopoly, you get to do all the crazy things government does and get away with it.
Especially when your phony ratings extend to things like government bonds which the government absolutely wants good ratings on, no matter how miserable their real financial picture is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634494</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634858</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>khallow</author>
	<datestamp>1269611400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why are you in the US, if the EU is so much better? The US  is different. It isn't Germany or the UK. That traditional distrust of government may well be one of the fundamental reasons why you have a job here. And to be honest, if the government can't fix potholes in freeways, then it's going to screw up any trains or health care that it gets near.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why are you in the US , if the EU is so much better ?
The US is different .
It is n't Germany or the UK .
That traditional distrust of government may well be one of the fundamental reasons why you have a job here .
And to be honest , if the government ca n't fix potholes in freeways , then it 's going to screw up any trains or health care that it gets near .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why are you in the US, if the EU is so much better?
The US  is different.
It isn't Germany or the UK.
That traditional distrust of government may well be one of the fundamental reasons why you have a job here.
And to be honest, if the government can't fix potholes in freeways, then it's going to screw up any trains or health care that it gets near.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634466</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>dbIII</author>
	<datestamp>1269608820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The only problem is that they pretend to do so.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only problem is that they pretend to do so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only problem is that they pretend to do so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634280</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>NewbieProgrammerMan</author>
	<datestamp>1269607620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You'd think that they wouldn't default to giving away their (supposedly) valuable seal of approval, though.  Most bureaucracies I've dealt with personally just ignored you if too many applications meant they would have to stay past 4pm.</p><p>Anyway, way to go GAO.  It sounds like somebody in there has a fun job-- "Johnson, I need you to create some idiotic-sounding products and set up fake companies to go with them."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'd think that they would n't default to giving away their ( supposedly ) valuable seal of approval , though .
Most bureaucracies I 've dealt with personally just ignored you if too many applications meant they would have to stay past 4pm.Anyway , way to go GAO .
It sounds like somebody in there has a fun job-- " Johnson , I need you to create some idiotic-sounding products and set up fake companies to go with them .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'd think that they wouldn't default to giving away their (supposedly) valuable seal of approval, though.
Most bureaucracies I've dealt with personally just ignored you if too many applications meant they would have to stay past 4pm.Anyway, way to go GAO.
It sounds like somebody in there has a fun job-- "Johnson, I need you to create some idiotic-sounding products and set up fake companies to go with them.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31731520</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>haxor.dk</author>
	<datestamp>1270463880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;In USA you have small government, no taxes and (snip)</p><p>The USA as a no-tax country, as you or others put forward, is a myth; the tax burden as a part of GDP is just under 30\%, while in Europe, on average, is just over 40\%.</p><p>That you get screwed on healthcare and by telcos is true, but a different matter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; In USA you have small government , no taxes and ( snip ) The USA as a no-tax country , as you or others put forward , is a myth ; the tax burden as a part of GDP is just under 30 \ % , while in Europe , on average , is just over 40 \ % .That you get screwed on healthcare and by telcos is true , but a different matter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;In USA you have small government, no taxes and (snip)The USA as a no-tax country, as you or others put forward, is a myth; the tax burden as a part of GDP is just under 30\%, while in Europe, on average, is just over 40\%.That you get screwed on healthcare and by telcos is true, but a different matter.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634220</id>
	<title>So, its a marketing label only</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269607200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have long thought that some of the devices with the energy star label were not that energy saving. Now I know.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have long thought that some of the devices with the energy star label were not that energy saving .
Now I know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have long thought that some of the devices with the energy star label were not that energy saving.
Now I know.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634432</id>
	<title>Stop flying off the deep end.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269608580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course the GAO is a government office, so if I'm not supposed to trust the government...</p><p>I'd rather not throw the baby out with the bathwater.  I can think of plenty of places where the government is trustworthy: I trust them to bend over for corporate power in a heartbeat.  Corporations no doubt benefit from a sham stamp of approval like "Energy Star" to help sell products.  Private organizations do plenty of harm (Dow Chemical and Bhopal, war profiteering, financing campaigns that weaken consumer protections, the movie "The Corporation" is filled with more examples) and that harm is (by design) beyond any democratic relief or judicial oversight; we don't need more of that.  On issues of life and death, war and peace, it's clear that the US government is plenty willing to keep wars, banks, and now HMOs financed with taxpayer dollars while its citizens suffer; plenty of examples of government-corporate working against the people.  People need to fix this not think government is something to throw away.  The power of government can be turned to benefit its people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course the GAO is a government office , so if I 'm not supposed to trust the government...I 'd rather not throw the baby out with the bathwater .
I can think of plenty of places where the government is trustworthy : I trust them to bend over for corporate power in a heartbeat .
Corporations no doubt benefit from a sham stamp of approval like " Energy Star " to help sell products .
Private organizations do plenty of harm ( Dow Chemical and Bhopal , war profiteering , financing campaigns that weaken consumer protections , the movie " The Corporation " is filled with more examples ) and that harm is ( by design ) beyond any democratic relief or judicial oversight ; we do n't need more of that .
On issues of life and death , war and peace , it 's clear that the US government is plenty willing to keep wars , banks , and now HMOs financed with taxpayer dollars while its citizens suffer ; plenty of examples of government-corporate working against the people .
People need to fix this not think government is something to throw away .
The power of government can be turned to benefit its people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course the GAO is a government office, so if I'm not supposed to trust the government...I'd rather not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I can think of plenty of places where the government is trustworthy: I trust them to bend over for corporate power in a heartbeat.
Corporations no doubt benefit from a sham stamp of approval like "Energy Star" to help sell products.
Private organizations do plenty of harm (Dow Chemical and Bhopal, war profiteering, financing campaigns that weaken consumer protections, the movie "The Corporation" is filled with more examples) and that harm is (by design) beyond any democratic relief or judicial oversight; we don't need more of that.
On issues of life and death, war and peace, it's clear that the US government is plenty willing to keep wars, banks, and now HMOs financed with taxpayer dollars while its citizens suffer; plenty of examples of government-corporate working against the people.
People need to fix this not think government is something to throw away.
The power of government can be turned to benefit its people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634298</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31636298</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269620460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> And to be honest, if the government can't fix potholes in freeways, then it's going to screw up any trains or health care that it gets near.</p></div></blockquote><p>You're completely missing the point, most likely intentionally. You're saying that if the government can't fix the potholes with its current funding, then giving it more funds won't let it do more. He's pointing out that in countries with higher taxes, they have better government roads and services. Your point makes no sense, his is empirical.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And to be honest , if the government ca n't fix potholes in freeways , then it 's going to screw up any trains or health care that it gets near.You 're completely missing the point , most likely intentionally .
You 're saying that if the government ca n't fix the potholes with its current funding , then giving it more funds wo n't let it do more .
He 's pointing out that in countries with higher taxes , they have better government roads and services .
Your point makes no sense , his is empirical .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> And to be honest, if the government can't fix potholes in freeways, then it's going to screw up any trains or health care that it gets near.You're completely missing the point, most likely intentionally.
You're saying that if the government can't fix the potholes with its current funding, then giving it more funds won't let it do more.
He's pointing out that in countries with higher taxes, they have better government roads and services.
Your point makes no sense, his is empirical.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634858</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634252</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269607380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Neh that's totally different. I'm pretty sure there are no bogus patents.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Neh that 's totally different .
I 'm pretty sure there are no bogus patents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Neh that's totally different.
I'm pretty sure there are no bogus patents.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634752</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>toastar</author>
	<datestamp>1269610740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.</p></div><p>Why?</p><p>Somebody has to do the testing, What does it matter who pays their pay check?</p><p>If the Testing firm had to be a regulated by the EPA perhaps we wouldn't have to pay for all of it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.Why ? Somebody has to do the testing , What does it matter who pays their pay check ? If the Testing firm had to be a regulated by the EPA perhaps we would n't have to pay for all of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.Why?Somebody has to do the testing, What does it matter who pays their pay check?If the Testing firm had to be a regulated by the EPA perhaps we wouldn't have to pay for all of it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634314</id>
	<title>Re:So, its a marketing label only</title>
	<author>Black Gold Alchemist</author>
	<datestamp>1269607800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Especially because it amounts to turning down the radio in a hummer to save gas.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Especially because it amounts to turning down the radio in a hummer to save gas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Especially because it amounts to turning down the radio in a hummer to save gas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31635462</id>
	<title>Re:Stop flying off the deep end.</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1269614880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>People need to fix this not think government is something to throw away. The power of government can be turned to benefit its people.</p></div><p>It might actually be easier to throw away this government and create another one than to try to fix everything that's wrong with this one. But since enough of us can't even agree what goes on the "wrong" list to do anything concerted, our corporate masters will continue boning us.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>People need to fix this not think government is something to throw away .
The power of government can be turned to benefit its people.It might actually be easier to throw away this government and create another one than to try to fix everything that 's wrong with this one .
But since enough of us ca n't even agree what goes on the " wrong " list to do anything concerted , our corporate masters will continue boning us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People need to fix this not think government is something to throw away.
The power of government can be turned to benefit its people.It might actually be easier to throw away this government and create another one than to try to fix everything that's wrong with this one.
But since enough of us can't even agree what goes on the "wrong" list to do anything concerted, our corporate masters will continue boning us.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634432</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31635276</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269613740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"This kind of comments make me want to return to Europe."</p><p>Please feel free to do just that. I do agree that you get what you pay for, but that's the beauty of this country; you can pick how much you wish to spend on any particular aspect. If you want total coverage healthcare, you buy it. If you get "shitty" service at a hospital, you can (drumroll please) GO TO A DIFFERENT HOSPITAL! Wotta concept. You seem to have an uber-simplistic view of how public services and/or government works, but then, most Europeans do. I just have to add two more things: 1. NYC is a complete toilet: filthy, overcrowded, crime-ridden, gridlocked, and useless, with the exception of a few places like the Carnegie Deli and Little Italy, and 2. Regarding your comment on healthcare in the UK...ah, I'm guessing you weren't referring to dental care, right?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" This kind of comments make me want to return to Europe .
" Please feel free to do just that .
I do agree that you get what you pay for , but that 's the beauty of this country ; you can pick how much you wish to spend on any particular aspect .
If you want total coverage healthcare , you buy it .
If you get " shitty " service at a hospital , you can ( drumroll please ) GO TO A DIFFERENT HOSPITAL !
Wotta concept .
You seem to have an uber-simplistic view of how public services and/or government works , but then , most Europeans do .
I just have to add two more things : 1 .
NYC is a complete toilet : filthy , overcrowded , crime-ridden , gridlocked , and useless , with the exception of a few places like the Carnegie Deli and Little Italy , and 2 .
Regarding your comment on healthcare in the UK...ah , I 'm guessing you were n't referring to dental care , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"This kind of comments make me want to return to Europe.
"Please feel free to do just that.
I do agree that you get what you pay for, but that's the beauty of this country; you can pick how much you wish to spend on any particular aspect.
If you want total coverage healthcare, you buy it.
If you get "shitty" service at a hospital, you can (drumroll please) GO TO A DIFFERENT HOSPITAL!
Wotta concept.
You seem to have an uber-simplistic view of how public services and/or government works, but then, most Europeans do.
I just have to add two more things: 1.
NYC is a complete toilet: filthy, overcrowded, crime-ridden, gridlocked, and useless, with the exception of a few places like the Carnegie Deli and Little Italy, and 2.
Regarding your comment on healthcare in the UK...ah, I'm guessing you weren't referring to dental care, right?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634298</id>
	<title>Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269607680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bernie Madoff stole 50 billion dollars right under the SEC and FINRA's noses. Unlike private agencies like the UL that face the threat of extinction if they ruin their brand, government agencies routinely screw up, screw the people they're supposed to protect and get more money for their failures.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bernie Madoff stole 50 billion dollars right under the SEC and FINRA 's noses .
Unlike private agencies like the UL that face the threat of extinction if they ruin their brand , government agencies routinely screw up , screw the people they 're supposed to protect and get more money for their failures .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bernie Madoff stole 50 billion dollars right under the SEC and FINRA's noses.
Unlike private agencies like the UL that face the threat of extinction if they ruin their brand, government agencies routinely screw up, screw the people they're supposed to protect and get more money for their failures.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31639552</id>
	<title>Fine them &amp; remove all their certificates</title>
	<author>Midnight Thunder</author>
	<datestamp>1269705900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.</i></p><p>Certainly, but there should at least be spot checks and the possibility of fining manufacturers, if consumers report inconsistencies.  I would go even further, that if a manufacturer has been caught intentionally publishing incorrect data, multiple times, then they should lose all their energy star badges and then have to pay an Energy Star certified lab to prove their products are complaint.</p><p>You can test you appliances with devices such as 'Kill-A-Watt'. Maybe its even time that a web site was put together where people can list what readings they were getting during different activities?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.Certainly , but there should at least be spot checks and the possibility of fining manufacturers , if consumers report inconsistencies .
I would go even further , that if a manufacturer has been caught intentionally publishing incorrect data , multiple times , then they should lose all their energy star badges and then have to pay an Energy Star certified lab to prove their products are complaint.You can test you appliances with devices such as 'Kill-A-Watt' .
Maybe its even time that a web site was put together where people can list what readings they were getting during different activities ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.Certainly, but there should at least be spot checks and the possibility of fining manufacturers, if consumers report inconsistencies.
I would go even further, that if a manufacturer has been caught intentionally publishing incorrect data, multiple times, then they should lose all their energy star badges and then have to pay an Energy Star certified lab to prove their products are complaint.You can test you appliances with devices such as 'Kill-A-Watt'.
Maybe its even time that a web site was put together where people can list what readings they were getting during different activities?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31637280</id>
	<title>Not Energy-Star friendly for babies ..</title>
	<author>freaker\_TuC</author>
	<datestamp>1269630120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><b>I'd rather not throw the baby out with the bathwater.</b></p><p>That's ok, doing so would screw the energy star of the baby anyway...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd rather not throw the baby out with the bathwater.That 's ok , doing so would screw the energy star of the baby anyway.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd rather not throw the baby out with the bathwater.That's ok, doing so would screw the energy star of the baby anyway...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634432</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634336</id>
	<title>Re:So, its a marketing label only</title>
	<author>Ant P.</author>
	<datestamp>1269607860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IIRC there was a front page story a long time ago about this; it was about some HDTVs that got this label which used obscene amounts of power even when they were turned "off".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IIRC there was a front page story a long time ago about this ; it was about some HDTVs that got this label which used obscene amounts of power even when they were turned " off " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IIRC there was a front page story a long time ago about this; it was about some HDTVs that got this label which used obscene amounts of power even when they were turned "off".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634494</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269609000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder what you might have to say about a more relevant example of private bond rating agencies (such as Standard &amp; Poors and Moodys).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder what you might have to say about a more relevant example of private bond rating agencies ( such as Standard &amp; Poors and Moodys ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder what you might have to say about a more relevant example of private bond rating agencies (such as Standard &amp; Poors and Moodys).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634298</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634584</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>iroll</author>
	<datestamp>1269609540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bullshit.  If the EPA can't </p><ul><li>afford</li></ul><p> to test them all, then the EPA should accredit private labs to do the testing and the manufacturer should pay the labs to produce certified results that meet EPA requirements.</p><p>The accreditation doesn't even have to cost the taxpayer anything, because the EPA can charge the labs for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bullshit .
If the EPA ca n't afford to test them all , then the EPA should accredit private labs to do the testing and the manufacturer should pay the labs to produce certified results that meet EPA requirements.The accreditation does n't even have to cost the taxpayer anything , because the EPA can charge the labs for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bullshit.
If the EPA can't afford to test them all, then the EPA should accredit private labs to do the testing and the manufacturer should pay the labs to produce certified results that meet EPA requirements.The accreditation doesn't even have to cost the taxpayer anything, because the EPA can charge the labs for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31635672</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>misexistentialist</author>
	<datestamp>1269616020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No one is stopping you from paying more in taxes. Really you don't want to though. You'd rather have a car than read train schedules, and you'd rather keep your six figures than pay for the large unemployed class on the dole in Germany and the UK. You do end paying a kind of tax on health-care and telecommunications to subsidize these services for the poor, though it's true both areas could use some better regulation. As for potholes--Americans find it inconvenient to have cobblestone freeways.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No one is stopping you from paying more in taxes .
Really you do n't want to though .
You 'd rather have a car than read train schedules , and you 'd rather keep your six figures than pay for the large unemployed class on the dole in Germany and the UK .
You do end paying a kind of tax on health-care and telecommunications to subsidize these services for the poor , though it 's true both areas could use some better regulation .
As for potholes--Americans find it inconvenient to have cobblestone freeways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No one is stopping you from paying more in taxes.
Really you don't want to though.
You'd rather have a car than read train schedules, and you'd rather keep your six figures than pay for the large unemployed class on the dole in Germany and the UK.
You do end paying a kind of tax on health-care and telecommunications to subsidize these services for the poor, though it's true both areas could use some better regulation.
As for potholes--Americans find it inconvenient to have cobblestone freeways.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634240</id>
	<title>dang</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1269607320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I guess the secret's out about my Energy Star certified gas-guzzling SUV that gets 10mpg, which I drive a few hundred miles every day?
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess the secret 's out about my Energy Star certified gas-guzzling SUV that gets 10mpg , which I drive a few hundred miles every day ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I guess the secret's out about my Energy Star certified gas-guzzling SUV that gets 10mpg, which I drive a few hundred miles every day?
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634340</id>
	<title>Taxes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269607920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An Energy Star purchase can also get you some <a href="http://www.energysavers.gov/financial/70020.html" title="energysavers.gov" rel="nofollow">tax credits and rebates</a> [energysavers.gov].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An Energy Star purchase can also get you some tax credits and rebates [ energysavers.gov ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An Energy Star purchase can also get you some tax credits and rebates [energysavers.gov].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634308</id>
	<title>Re:So, its a marketing label only</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1269607740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Ah, but they are energy efficient.............. compared to a short circuit, or a 100 ohm resistor  in parallel with the device.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah , but they are energy efficient.............. compared to a short circuit , or a 100 ohm resistor in parallel with the device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Ah, but they are energy efficient.............. compared to a short circuit, or a 100 ohm resistor  in parallel with the device.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31636416</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>digitalunity</author>
	<datestamp>1269621360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wrong. The mechanism for a solution is already in place.</p><p>We already have a very concrete, existing voluntary product safety certification system in place. OSHA is an accrediting organization for the Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory.</p><p>The solution is a relatively simple one. Require energy star ratings be given by the already existing certification agencies such as UL, CSA, Metlab, SGS, et. al.</p><p>To comply with the requirements of their accreditation through OSHA, the companies are required to submit their products to testing agencies and the products are thoroughly tested for compliance to existing standards. Energy efficiency could easily become an optional part of that product certification testing. The FCC did that and it's been working out pretty good so far.</p><p>This removes a large burden from the EPA and puts responsibility for issuing Energy Star certifications on companies who have already proven their ability to test products responsibly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wrong .
The mechanism for a solution is already in place.We already have a very concrete , existing voluntary product safety certification system in place .
OSHA is an accrediting organization for the Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory.The solution is a relatively simple one .
Require energy star ratings be given by the already existing certification agencies such as UL , CSA , Metlab , SGS , et .
al.To comply with the requirements of their accreditation through OSHA , the companies are required to submit their products to testing agencies and the products are thoroughly tested for compliance to existing standards .
Energy efficiency could easily become an optional part of that product certification testing .
The FCC did that and it 's been working out pretty good so far.This removes a large burden from the EPA and puts responsibility for issuing Energy Star certifications on companies who have already proven their ability to test products responsibly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wrong.
The mechanism for a solution is already in place.We already have a very concrete, existing voluntary product safety certification system in place.
OSHA is an accrediting organization for the Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory.The solution is a relatively simple one.
Require energy star ratings be given by the already existing certification agencies such as UL, CSA, Metlab, SGS, et.
al.To comply with the requirements of their accreditation through OSHA, the companies are required to submit their products to testing agencies and the products are thoroughly tested for compliance to existing standards.
Energy efficiency could easily become an optional part of that product certification testing.
The FCC did that and it's been working out pretty good so far.This removes a large burden from the EPA and puts responsibility for issuing Energy Star certifications on companies who have already proven their ability to test products responsibly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634286</id>
	<title>Tropic Thunda!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269607620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That Tropical Thunder website is fueled by awesome-sauce.</p><p>I love how all the sites were 'Spun by Sitespinner.' Makes the Energy Star evaluators^Wapprovers seem doubleplus inept</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That Tropical Thunder website is fueled by awesome-sauce.I love how all the sites were 'Spun by Sitespinner .
' Makes the Energy Star evaluators ^ Wapprovers seem doubleplus inept</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That Tropical Thunder website is fueled by awesome-sauce.I love how all the sites were 'Spun by Sitespinner.
' Makes the Energy Star evaluators^Wapprovers seem doubleplus inept</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</id>
	<title>Like patents</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269607080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634852</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1269611400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Simple solution: You set the stakes higher, until you can process them, and thereby become more exclusive. Let them do the work, if they want a certification. In way that makes it very easy and quick for you to verify it. (But don&rsquo;t use money as a blocker, as that harms small companies who are great but can&rsquo;t afford it yet.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Simple solution : You set the stakes higher , until you can process them , and thereby become more exclusive .
Let them do the work , if they want a certification .
In way that makes it very easy and quick for you to verify it .
( But don    t use money as a blocker , as that harms small companies who are great but can    t afford it yet .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Simple solution: You set the stakes higher, until you can process them, and thereby become more exclusive.
Let them do the work, if they want a certification.
In way that makes it very easy and quick for you to verify it.
(But don’t use money as a blocker, as that harms small companies who are great but can’t afford it yet.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31635342</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269614160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Woah woah woah there, slow down! Your talking to Americans here, please remember to use words that are no longer than 6 letters or contain no more than two or three syllables. Besides, what the hell is this talk of sensible thinking, you really must still be adjusting<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Woah woah woah there , slow down !
Your talking to Americans here , please remember to use words that are no longer than 6 letters or contain no more than two or three syllables .
Besides , what the hell is this talk of sensible thinking , you really must still be adjusting : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Woah woah woah there, slow down!
Your talking to Americans here, please remember to use words that are no longer than 6 letters or contain no more than two or three syllables.
Besides, what the hell is this talk of sensible thinking, you really must still be adjusting :P</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31635296</id>
	<title>Re:So, its a marketing label only</title>
	<author>517714</author>
	<datestamp>1269613860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I live alone and some of the ratings are  meaningless for me - the most efficient front loading washing machine a few years ago, an Energy Star model that washes efficiently but has a high standby current would have used at least twice the energy as my 14 year old top loader which uses more than twice the energy to wash a load - I don't do a lot of loads in a year and the machine draws nothing while idle.  Energy Star is based on 400 loads a year.  <p>

The Government has no business endorsing any product.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live alone and some of the ratings are meaningless for me - the most efficient front loading washing machine a few years ago , an Energy Star model that washes efficiently but has a high standby current would have used at least twice the energy as my 14 year old top loader which uses more than twice the energy to wash a load - I do n't do a lot of loads in a year and the machine draws nothing while idle .
Energy Star is based on 400 loads a year .
The Government has no business endorsing any product .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live alone and some of the ratings are  meaningless for me - the most efficient front loading washing machine a few years ago, an Energy Star model that washes efficiently but has a high standby current would have used at least twice the energy as my 14 year old top loader which uses more than twice the energy to wash a load - I don't do a lot of loads in a year and the machine draws nothing while idle.
Energy Star is based on 400 loads a year.
The Government has no business endorsing any product.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31637982</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>Cornwallis</author>
	<datestamp>1269687000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.</p></div><p>Really. And yet Consumer's Union does it regularly.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.Really .
And yet Consumer 's Union does it regularly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.Really.
And yet Consumer's Union does it regularly.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31636410</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>Tablizer</author>
	<datestamp>1269621300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.</p></div></blockquote><p>Two fixes:</p><p>1. At least do random sampling</p><p>2. Charge a fee sufficient enough to cover the cost of testing. Thus, if there are gajillion candidate products, then there are also gajillion fee instances coming in to pay for more inspections.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.Two fixes : 1 .
At least do random sampling2 .
Charge a fee sufficient enough to cover the cost of testing .
Thus , if there are gajillion candidate products , then there are also gajillion fee instances coming in to pay for more inspections .
   </tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.Two fixes:1.
At least do random sampling2.
Charge a fee sufficient enough to cover the cost of testing.
Thus, if there are gajillion candidate products, then there are also gajillion fee instances coming in to pay for more inspections.
   
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634294</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>MrMista\_B</author>
	<datestamp>1269607620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They need... two! Two beurocrazies!</p><p>*evil laugh*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They need... two ! Two beurocrazies !
* evil laugh *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They need... two! Two beurocrazies!
*evil laugh*</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31635150</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>517714</author>
	<datestamp>1269613020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Which is one of the reasons for UL, FM, and other "independent" laboratories to exist.  The government can do some random sampling of their tests, and have some confidence that the others were conducted in a similar manner.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Which is one of the reasons for UL , FM , and other " independent " laboratories to exist .
The government can do some random sampling of their tests , and have some confidence that the others were conducted in a similar manner .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which is one of the reasons for UL, FM, and other "independent" laboratories to exist.
The government can do some random sampling of their tests, and have some confidence that the others were conducted in a similar manner.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31637044</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>ArsonSmith</author>
	<datestamp>1269626880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Like healthcare now.  What government lacks in quality it can always make up for in volume.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Like healthcare now .
What government lacks in quality it can always make up for in volume .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Like healthcare now.
What government lacks in quality it can always make up for in volume.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634514</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>PineGreen</author>
	<datestamp>1269609060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This kind of comments make me want to return to Europe. I've been living in US for a couple of years now, I have a 6 figure salary and you know what: I hate paying so little in taxes. Because you get what you pay for. In USA you have small government, no taxes and hence everyone gets routinely screwed up by private sector: I have never paid so much in telecommunications, so much in healthcare costs for the shittiest service ever and I just punctured tire on my audi last week because of a massive pothole on a *freeway*.  But as long as you get screwed by private sector everyone is happy.  And then because one gov service is bad, everybody starts screaming big government is the root of all evil. For fuck sake, have you people ever tried trains in germany or healthcare in UK? USA could have been such a good country, food can be so amazing in NY and multiculturalism beats everybody else, but if people were just a little bit more sensible brained....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This kind of comments make me want to return to Europe .
I 've been living in US for a couple of years now , I have a 6 figure salary and you know what : I hate paying so little in taxes .
Because you get what you pay for .
In USA you have small government , no taxes and hence everyone gets routinely screwed up by private sector : I have never paid so much in telecommunications , so much in healthcare costs for the shittiest service ever and I just punctured tire on my audi last week because of a massive pothole on a * freeway * .
But as long as you get screwed by private sector everyone is happy .
And then because one gov service is bad , everybody starts screaming big government is the root of all evil .
For fuck sake , have you people ever tried trains in germany or healthcare in UK ?
USA could have been such a good country , food can be so amazing in NY and multiculturalism beats everybody else , but if people were just a little bit more sensible brained... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This kind of comments make me want to return to Europe.
I've been living in US for a couple of years now, I have a 6 figure salary and you know what: I hate paying so little in taxes.
Because you get what you pay for.
In USA you have small government, no taxes and hence everyone gets routinely screwed up by private sector: I have never paid so much in telecommunications, so much in healthcare costs for the shittiest service ever and I just punctured tire on my audi last week because of a massive pothole on a *freeway*.
But as long as you get screwed by private sector everyone is happy.
And then because one gov service is bad, everybody starts screaming big government is the root of all evil.
For fuck sake, have you people ever tried trains in germany or healthcare in UK?
USA could have been such a good country, food can be so amazing in NY and multiculturalism beats everybody else, but if people were just a little bit more sensible brained....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634298</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31636676</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>repetty</author>
	<datestamp>1269623880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Why are you in the US, if the EU is so much better? The US is<br>&gt; different. It isn't Germany or the UK. That traditional distrust<br>&gt; of government may well be one of the fundamental reasons why you<br>&gt; have a job here. And to be honest, if the government can't fix<br>&gt; potholes in freeways, then it's going to screw up any trains or<br>&gt; health care that it gets near.</p><p>I fail to see why this is modded "5, Insightful."</p><p>Maybe it ought to be "3, Defensive."</p><p>You should have stopped right before the part that goes, "And to be honest...."</p><p>If you had stopped there, you'd've been okay, but instead you went off into silly speculation. Credibility = 0.</p><p>Disappointing since you had just made a good point.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Why are you in the US , if the EU is so much better ?
The US is &gt; different .
It is n't Germany or the UK .
That traditional distrust &gt; of government may well be one of the fundamental reasons why you &gt; have a job here .
And to be honest , if the government ca n't fix &gt; potholes in freeways , then it 's going to screw up any trains or &gt; health care that it gets near.I fail to see why this is modded " 5 , Insightful .
" Maybe it ought to be " 3 , Defensive .
" You should have stopped right before the part that goes , " And to be honest.... " If you had stopped there , you 'd've been okay , but instead you went off into silly speculation .
Credibility = 0.Disappointing since you had just made a good point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Why are you in the US, if the EU is so much better?
The US is&gt; different.
It isn't Germany or the UK.
That traditional distrust&gt; of government may well be one of the fundamental reasons why you&gt; have a job here.
And to be honest, if the government can't fix&gt; potholes in freeways, then it's going to screw up any trains or&gt; health care that it gets near.I fail to see why this is modded "5, Insightful.
"Maybe it ought to be "3, Defensive.
"You should have stopped right before the part that goes, "And to be honest...."If you had stopped there, you'd've been okay, but instead you went off into silly speculation.
Credibility = 0.Disappointing since you had just made a good point.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634858</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634580</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1269609540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I suspect one of three things(or conceivably some combination):<br> <br>

Regulatory capture: Regulatory entities frequently(out of a mixture of lobbying and the human social processes that come with working together), frequently start to identify with the entities they regulate. It's like Stockholm Syndrome for bureaucracies. Either because you fear the lobbying clout of people upset with your decisions, or because you really don't want to be "not a team player", you start getting <i>really</i> softball regulation.<br> <br>

Bad incentive structure: Defining <i>good</i> metrics for productivity is hard. Defining bad ones is easy. It would be totally believable that, either by design or in practice, the guy who approves 10 products in a day gets more brownie points than the guy who denies 10, or carefully researches 5.<br> <br>

Intentional brokenness: A common(and quite sensible) defensive mechanism used by entities or industries that fear they will face conditions harmful to their interests(either regulation, consumer backlash, or both) is to pre-emptively "show their cooperation" by collaborating with their friends in legislature, or in "objective 3rd party" organizations produced for the purpose, to establish carefully broken softball standards that <i>strongly resemble</i> whatever reform they feared; but have little or none of the punch.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I suspect one of three things ( or conceivably some combination ) : Regulatory capture : Regulatory entities frequently ( out of a mixture of lobbying and the human social processes that come with working together ) , frequently start to identify with the entities they regulate .
It 's like Stockholm Syndrome for bureaucracies .
Either because you fear the lobbying clout of people upset with your decisions , or because you really do n't want to be " not a team player " , you start getting really softball regulation .
Bad incentive structure : Defining good metrics for productivity is hard .
Defining bad ones is easy .
It would be totally believable that , either by design or in practice , the guy who approves 10 products in a day gets more brownie points than the guy who denies 10 , or carefully researches 5 .
Intentional brokenness : A common ( and quite sensible ) defensive mechanism used by entities or industries that fear they will face conditions harmful to their interests ( either regulation , consumer backlash , or both ) is to pre-emptively " show their cooperation " by collaborating with their friends in legislature , or in " objective 3rd party " organizations produced for the purpose , to establish carefully broken softball standards that strongly resemble whatever reform they feared ; but have little or none of the punch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suspect one of three things(or conceivably some combination): 

Regulatory capture: Regulatory entities frequently(out of a mixture of lobbying and the human social processes that come with working together), frequently start to identify with the entities they regulate.
It's like Stockholm Syndrome for bureaucracies.
Either because you fear the lobbying clout of people upset with your decisions, or because you really don't want to be "not a team player", you start getting really softball regulation.
Bad incentive structure: Defining good metrics for productivity is hard.
Defining bad ones is easy.
It would be totally believable that, either by design or in practice, the guy who approves 10 products in a day gets more brownie points than the guy who denies 10, or carefully researches 5.
Intentional brokenness: A common(and quite sensible) defensive mechanism used by entities or industries that fear they will face conditions harmful to their interests(either regulation, consumer backlash, or both) is to pre-emptively "show their cooperation" by collaborating with their friends in legislature, or in "objective 3rd party" organizations produced for the purpose, to establish carefully broken softball standards that strongly resemble whatever reform they feared; but have little or none of the punch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31638214</id>
	<title>Re:So, its a marketing label only</title>
	<author>KnightBlade</author>
	<datestamp>1269690120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html" title="p3international.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html</a> [p3international.com] - this is your friend. Trust nothing but this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html [ p3international.com ] - this is your friend .
Trust nothing but this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html [p3international.com] - this is your friend.
Trust nothing but this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31656046</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>JimFive</author>
	<datestamp>1269872700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> If you get "shitty" service at a hospital, you can (drumroll please) GO TO A DIFFERENT HOSPITAL! Wotta concept.</p> </div><p>I just wanted to point out that it isn't quite that easy.  A hospital is not a hotel.  You can't just pick out a hospital, show up, and get a room.  In order to get admitted to a hospital you have to find a doctor that has admitting privileges at that hospital and then convince em to admit you.<br> <br>If you are already in a hospital, getting transferred to a different hospital is usually not covered by your insurance policy and requires a huge amount of effort to get the current hospital to initiate a transfer (unless it is their idea).  You have to do it as a transfer because of the whole finding someone to admit you problem (and if you self-discharge, you won't).
--
JimFive</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you get " shitty " service at a hospital , you can ( drumroll please ) GO TO A DIFFERENT HOSPITAL !
Wotta concept .
I just wanted to point out that it is n't quite that easy .
A hospital is not a hotel .
You ca n't just pick out a hospital , show up , and get a room .
In order to get admitted to a hospital you have to find a doctor that has admitting privileges at that hospital and then convince em to admit you .
If you are already in a hospital , getting transferred to a different hospital is usually not covered by your insurance policy and requires a huge amount of effort to get the current hospital to initiate a transfer ( unless it is their idea ) .
You have to do it as a transfer because of the whole finding someone to admit you problem ( and if you self-discharge , you wo n't ) .
-- JimFive</tokentext>
<sentencetext> If you get "shitty" service at a hospital, you can (drumroll please) GO TO A DIFFERENT HOSPITAL!
Wotta concept.
I just wanted to point out that it isn't quite that easy.
A hospital is not a hotel.
You can't just pick out a hospital, show up, and get a room.
In order to get admitted to a hospital you have to find a doctor that has admitting privileges at that hospital and then convince em to admit you.
If you are already in a hospital, getting transferred to a different hospital is usually not covered by your insurance policy and requires a huge amount of effort to get the current hospital to initiate a transfer (unless it is their idea).
You have to do it as a transfer because of the whole finding someone to admit you problem (and if you self-discharge, you won't).
--
JimFive
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31635276</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634402</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1269608340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.</p></div><p>True, but it does not stop them from establishing independent testing guidelines, and allowing bidding from companies who can perform the certification (and who are accountable when something receives certification incorrectly.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.True , but it does not stop them from establishing independent testing guidelines , and allowing bidding from companies who can perform the certification ( and who are accountable when something receives certification incorrectly .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.True, but it does not stop them from establishing independent testing guidelines, and allowing bidding from companies who can perform the certification (and who are accountable when something receives certification incorrectly.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31636160</id>
	<title>Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269619500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's stopping you from going back to Europe? Enjoy the rapidly growing fascist nanny state. There's something to be said for doing something morally right and not forcing others to pay for things which may not benefit them. Well, to be fair no country in the world is really moral anymore. The US was for a couple of years after 1776 when they weren't yet taxing people to pay for government services.</p><p>Lest you believe that it would be impossible to run a country entirely on donations, look at charities and look at how effectively we kicked the asses of the British in our revolution. We were poorly equipped, untrained, and undereducated but we knew more about our country than the British did, and we knew we were in the right to kick them out, and people actually put their money where there mouths were.</p><p>As it stands now I get to wait 8 weeks for an amendment to my IRS tax return to process while if I had just submitted a new return it would only take 6 weeks for it to process. How is that fair? Very few private companies allow each other to lag behind in payments for 60 days. Efficient Government is an oxymoron.</p><p>The reason we get screwed by private sector companies is because government is so all-encompassing that a lobbyist from said company can buy whatever law they want. If we really gave a crap about the military-industrial complex we would be trying to reduce the size of government, not make it more all-encompassing. Every single cost you cite is related to companies who have a government-granted monopoly on service in your area.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's stopping you from going back to Europe ?
Enjoy the rapidly growing fascist nanny state .
There 's something to be said for doing something morally right and not forcing others to pay for things which may not benefit them .
Well , to be fair no country in the world is really moral anymore .
The US was for a couple of years after 1776 when they were n't yet taxing people to pay for government services.Lest you believe that it would be impossible to run a country entirely on donations , look at charities and look at how effectively we kicked the asses of the British in our revolution .
We were poorly equipped , untrained , and undereducated but we knew more about our country than the British did , and we knew we were in the right to kick them out , and people actually put their money where there mouths were.As it stands now I get to wait 8 weeks for an amendment to my IRS tax return to process while if I had just submitted a new return it would only take 6 weeks for it to process .
How is that fair ?
Very few private companies allow each other to lag behind in payments for 60 days .
Efficient Government is an oxymoron.The reason we get screwed by private sector companies is because government is so all-encompassing that a lobbyist from said company can buy whatever law they want .
If we really gave a crap about the military-industrial complex we would be trying to reduce the size of government , not make it more all-encompassing .
Every single cost you cite is related to companies who have a government-granted monopoly on service in your area .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's stopping you from going back to Europe?
Enjoy the rapidly growing fascist nanny state.
There's something to be said for doing something morally right and not forcing others to pay for things which may not benefit them.
Well, to be fair no country in the world is really moral anymore.
The US was for a couple of years after 1776 when they weren't yet taxing people to pay for government services.Lest you believe that it would be impossible to run a country entirely on donations, look at charities and look at how effectively we kicked the asses of the British in our revolution.
We were poorly equipped, untrained, and undereducated but we knew more about our country than the British did, and we knew we were in the right to kick them out, and people actually put their money where there mouths were.As it stands now I get to wait 8 weeks for an amendment to my IRS tax return to process while if I had just submitted a new return it would only take 6 weeks for it to process.
How is that fair?
Very few private companies allow each other to lag behind in payments for 60 days.
Efficient Government is an oxymoron.The reason we get screwed by private sector companies is because government is so all-encompassing that a lobbyist from said company can buy whatever law they want.
If we really gave a crap about the military-industrial complex we would be trying to reduce the size of government, not make it more all-encompassing.
Every single cost you cite is related to companies who have a government-granted monopoly on service in your area.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31635038</id>
	<title>Re:Like patents</title>
	<author>dynamo52</author>
	<datestamp>1269612480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.</p></div></blockquote><p>No, the problem is that this was a program written by industry lobbyists.  It is completely voluntary and the test results are self reported.</p><p>From TFA:</p><blockquote><div><p> In the instance of a bogus dehumidifier granted certification (an appliance also billed as 20 percent more efficient than the category leader), the EPA did request an e-mail confirmation on the bogus test data. To get the Energy Star stamp, the GAO spies simply had to stick to the story.</p></div> </blockquote><p>On the plus side though,this was discovered by the GAO making it an excellent example of what well reasoned regulation and oversight can accomplish. Now if we can get a few Republicans to vote for the new Consumer Protection Agency that Obama wants in the Financial Regulation Reform bill we would start to see more of these abuses brought to light.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.No , the problem is that this was a program written by industry lobbyists .
It is completely voluntary and the test results are self reported.From TFA : In the instance of a bogus dehumidifier granted certification ( an appliance also billed as 20 percent more efficient than the category leader ) , the EPA did request an e-mail confirmation on the bogus test data .
To get the Energy Star stamp , the GAO spies simply had to stick to the story .
On the plus side though,this was discovered by the GAO making it an excellent example of what well reasoned regulation and oversight can accomplish .
Now if we can get a few Republicans to vote for the new Consumer Protection Agency that Obama wants in the Financial Regulation Reform bill we would start to see more of these abuses brought to light .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.No, the problem is that this was a program written by industry lobbyists.
It is completely voluntary and the test results are self reported.From TFA: In the instance of a bogus dehumidifier granted certification (an appliance also billed as 20 percent more efficient than the category leader), the EPA did request an e-mail confirmation on the bogus test data.
To get the Energy Star stamp, the GAO spies simply had to stick to the story.
On the plus side though,this was discovered by the GAO making it an excellent example of what well reasoned regulation and oversight can accomplish.
Now if we can get a few Republicans to vote for the new Consumer Protection Agency that Obama wants in the Financial Regulation Reform bill we would start to see more of these abuses brought to light.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_26_2322208.31634208</parent>
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