<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_23_2223220</id>
	<title>US Lawmakers Eyeing National ID Card</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1269340800000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>According to Wired (and no big surprise, considering the practicalities of implementing <a href="http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/03/22/0929202/House-Passes-Massive-Medical-Insurance-Bill-219-212">massive changes in medical finance</a>), US lawmakers "are proposing a national identification card, a <a href="http://feeds.wired.com/~r/wired/index/~3/BqZEMh1wxN4/">'fraud-proof' Social Security card required for lawful employment</a> in the United States. The proposal comes as the Department of Homeland Security is moving toward nationalizing driver licenses."</htmltext>
<tokenext>According to Wired ( and no big surprise , considering the practicalities of implementing massive changes in medical finance ) , US lawmakers " are proposing a national identification card , a 'fraud-proof ' Social Security card required for lawful employment in the United States .
The proposal comes as the Department of Homeland Security is moving toward nationalizing driver licenses .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to Wired (and no big surprise, considering the practicalities of implementing massive changes in medical finance), US lawmakers "are proposing a national identification card, a 'fraud-proof' Social Security card required for lawful employment in the United States.
The proposal comes as the Department of Homeland Security is moving toward nationalizing driver licenses.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593214</id>
	<title>Dirty Rotten Republicans!</title>
	<author>kenh</author>
	<datestamp>1269359400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't believe those intrusive, brain-dead republicans, led by Karl Rove and his minions want to roll out a national ID card, just another intrusion into our privacy, <b>things will be <i>so different</i> when Obama gets in office</b>, that's for sure!</p><p>Wait, what?</p><p>Oh crap... Never mind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't believe those intrusive , brain-dead republicans , led by Karl Rove and his minions want to roll out a national ID card , just another intrusion into our privacy , things will be so different when Obama gets in office , that 's for sure ! Wait , what ? Oh crap... Never mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't believe those intrusive, brain-dead republicans, led by Karl Rove and his minions want to roll out a national ID card, just another intrusion into our privacy, things will be so different when Obama gets in office, that's for sure!Wait, what?Oh crap... Never mind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31594736</id>
	<title>Re:Lol.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269461760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow.. And I thought USA was a Christian country with Christian values etc, compassion, defenders of the poor and weak... Or is it that Christianity only works as long as it doesn't hit your pocket in any way?  Does money trump Christian values??</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow.. And I thought USA was a Christian country with Christian values etc , compassion , defenders of the poor and weak... Or is it that Christianity only works as long as it does n't hit your pocket in any way ?
Does money trump Christian values ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow.. And I thought USA was a Christian country with Christian values etc, compassion, defenders of the poor and weak... Or is it that Christianity only works as long as it doesn't hit your pocket in any way?
Does money trump Christian values?
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31592470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591140</id>
	<title>Re:Still think Obamacare is a good idea?</title>
	<author>Chris Burke</author>
	<datestamp>1269346920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What, you think this National ID card idea spontaneously appeared when the health care bill was passed?  LOL, haven't payed much attention for the last, um, forever, have you?</p><p>The Powers That Be are <i>always</i> looking for a reason to push a national ID card.  After 9/11 there was a big push for it, and regularly ever since, but it was defeated because even at our most paranoid and batshit crazy we knew better than to let such a thing pass.  Just like this proposal will go nowhere as well.</p><p>Look, you want to stop Obamacare from resulting in a National ID card?  It's easy:</p><p>Stop caring that an illegal might receive medical treatment, just like you're going to have to learn to stop caring that a poor person will receive medical treatment.  The only way the ID card has gotten any traction is as a way to stop illegals from receiving benefits, i.e. as a result of the same people who are against health care reform.</p><p>And if you're confused as to how treating illegal immigrants will fail to bankrupt us, it's the same as with poor people:  <b>They already are</b> receiving treatment, but at the ER, not at a regular doctor.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What , you think this National ID card idea spontaneously appeared when the health care bill was passed ?
LOL , have n't payed much attention for the last , um , forever , have you ? The Powers That Be are always looking for a reason to push a national ID card .
After 9/11 there was a big push for it , and regularly ever since , but it was defeated because even at our most paranoid and batshit crazy we knew better than to let such a thing pass .
Just like this proposal will go nowhere as well.Look , you want to stop Obamacare from resulting in a National ID card ?
It 's easy : Stop caring that an illegal might receive medical treatment , just like you 're going to have to learn to stop caring that a poor person will receive medical treatment .
The only way the ID card has gotten any traction is as a way to stop illegals from receiving benefits , i.e .
as a result of the same people who are against health care reform.And if you 're confused as to how treating illegal immigrants will fail to bankrupt us , it 's the same as with poor people : They already are receiving treatment , but at the ER , not at a regular doctor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What, you think this National ID card idea spontaneously appeared when the health care bill was passed?
LOL, haven't payed much attention for the last, um, forever, have you?The Powers That Be are always looking for a reason to push a national ID card.
After 9/11 there was a big push for it, and regularly ever since, but it was defeated because even at our most paranoid and batshit crazy we knew better than to let such a thing pass.
Just like this proposal will go nowhere as well.Look, you want to stop Obamacare from resulting in a National ID card?
It's easy:Stop caring that an illegal might receive medical treatment, just like you're going to have to learn to stop caring that a poor person will receive medical treatment.
The only way the ID card has gotten any traction is as a way to stop illegals from receiving benefits, i.e.
as a result of the same people who are against health care reform.And if you're confused as to how treating illegal immigrants will fail to bankrupt us, it's the same as with poor people:  They already are receiving treatment, but at the ER, not at a regular doctor.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31592152</id>
	<title>Re:Finally, a proper social security card</title>
	<author>zoloto</author>
	<datestamp>1269352200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We shouldn't even have a social security card...</htmltext>
<tokenext>We should n't even have a social security card.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We shouldn't even have a social security card...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590702</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591008</id>
	<title>Real ID</title>
	<author>JonBuck</author>
	<datestamp>1269346380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Didn't we already try it this past decade because of 9/11?  The States said NO.</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL\_ID\_Act#State\_adoption\_and\_non-compliance" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL\_ID\_Act#State\_adoption\_and\_non-compliance</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did n't we already try it this past decade because of 9/11 ?
The States said NO.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL \ _ID \ _Act # State \ _adoption \ _and \ _non-compliance [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Didn't we already try it this past decade because of 9/11?
The States said NO.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL\_ID\_Act#State\_adoption\_and\_non-compliance [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590804</id>
	<title>Re:Still think Obamacare is a good idea?</title>
	<author>Terminal Saint</author>
	<datestamp>1269345600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'll tell you as soon as healthcare actually gets nationalized.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll tell you as soon as healthcare actually gets nationalized .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll tell you as soon as healthcare actually gets nationalized.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593442</id>
	<title>RFID Tag</title>
	<author>gibson123</author>
	<datestamp>1269361320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, as long as they don't go slipping in a RFID tag in the card....</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , as long as they do n't go slipping in a RFID tag in the card... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, as long as they don't go slipping in a RFID tag in the card....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593792</id>
	<title>Re:Lol.</title>
	<author>Timex</author>
	<datestamp>1269364320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's the beauty of a free country.</p> </div><p>When the government forces you to do it, there's no "free".</p><p>In a "free country", the people still have the choice to do it or not.</p><p>In a free country, the people can tell their government "NO!", and the government will listen.</p><p>The US Government became a <a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tyranny" title="merriam-webster.com" rel="nofollow">tyranny</a> [merriam-webster.com] when the reigning political party ran roughshod over the American people to get as much of their agenda through as they could before the next election.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the beauty of a free country .
When the government forces you to do it , there 's no " free " .In a " free country " , the people still have the choice to do it or not.In a free country , the people can tell their government " NO !
" , and the government will listen.The US Government became a tyranny [ merriam-webster.com ] when the reigning political party ran roughshod over the American people to get as much of their agenda through as they could before the next election .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the beauty of a free country.
When the government forces you to do it, there's no "free".In a "free country", the people still have the choice to do it or not.In a free country, the people can tell their government "NO!
", and the government will listen.The US Government became a tyranny [merriam-webster.com] when the reigning political party ran roughshod over the American people to get as much of their agenda through as they could before the next election.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31592470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591084</id>
	<title>I don't see the problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269346680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>really, you should travel more. here in europe our gobernments have had track of our IDs for decades and we have social security, that will cover me for instance, if i travel to the US (it will pay the costs of any injury i might have and your hospitals will treat it as if it were an insurance company). so what? is anyone coming home to kill me because he knows a number related to my name?</p><p>i can tell you the problem: fear.</p><p>afraid of someone who's got your ID number? so what? I show my ID every night I go out, I show it every time I pay plastic, and so on, and... nothing goes wrong. same with my social security card, and even if i dont have it, if i have a health problem i know i can go to the hospital and they will take care of me. when im capable of, they will ask for an ID, ssec card or something, but i will be alive. and don't start moaning about inmigrants, 'cause Spain is being called the "door of Europe" in the northern Africa countries, and we still have no problems dealing with illegals coming in all the time..</p><p>and if you are about to say i misspelled something, yeah probably I did, English is not my mother language.</p><p>cheers all, and do be so afraid of helping your neighbours fgs</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>really , you should travel more .
here in europe our gobernments have had track of our IDs for decades and we have social security , that will cover me for instance , if i travel to the US ( it will pay the costs of any injury i might have and your hospitals will treat it as if it were an insurance company ) .
so what ?
is anyone coming home to kill me because he knows a number related to my name ? i can tell you the problem : fear.afraid of someone who 's got your ID number ?
so what ?
I show my ID every night I go out , I show it every time I pay plastic , and so on , and... nothing goes wrong .
same with my social security card , and even if i dont have it , if i have a health problem i know i can go to the hospital and they will take care of me .
when im capable of , they will ask for an ID , ssec card or something , but i will be alive .
and do n't start moaning about inmigrants , 'cause Spain is being called the " door of Europe " in the northern Africa countries , and we still have no problems dealing with illegals coming in all the time..and if you are about to say i misspelled something , yeah probably I did , English is not my mother language.cheers all , and do be so afraid of helping your neighbours fgs</tokentext>
<sentencetext>really, you should travel more.
here in europe our gobernments have had track of our IDs for decades and we have social security, that will cover me for instance, if i travel to the US (it will pay the costs of any injury i might have and your hospitals will treat it as if it were an insurance company).
so what?
is anyone coming home to kill me because he knows a number related to my name?i can tell you the problem: fear.afraid of someone who's got your ID number?
so what?
I show my ID every night I go out, I show it every time I pay plastic, and so on, and... nothing goes wrong.
same with my social security card, and even if i dont have it, if i have a health problem i know i can go to the hospital and they will take care of me.
when im capable of, they will ask for an ID, ssec card or something, but i will be alive.
and don't start moaning about inmigrants, 'cause Spain is being called the "door of Europe" in the northern Africa countries, and we still have no problems dealing with illegals coming in all the time..and if you are about to say i misspelled something, yeah probably I did, English is not my mother language.cheers all, and do be so afraid of helping your neighbours fgs</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591034</id>
	<title>Ihre Ausweis, BITTE!!!!!!!</title>
	<author>MarkvW</author>
	<datestamp>1269346500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is not freedom.  Contact your senator and let them know how you feel.  This is the first step to wholesale governmental intrusion in your life.  Government will keep discovering new uses for the card--and any one particular use only needs a majority to pass.  You may groove on the immigration use now, but what if you're in the minority opposing the next use some whacked-out legislator proposes???</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is not freedom .
Contact your senator and let them know how you feel .
This is the first step to wholesale governmental intrusion in your life .
Government will keep discovering new uses for the card--and any one particular use only needs a majority to pass .
You may groove on the immigration use now , but what if you 're in the minority opposing the next use some whacked-out legislator proposes ? ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is not freedom.
Contact your senator and let them know how you feel.
This is the first step to wholesale governmental intrusion in your life.
Government will keep discovering new uses for the card--and any one particular use only needs a majority to pass.
You may groove on the immigration use now, but what if you're in the minority opposing the next use some whacked-out legislator proposes??
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590598</id>
	<title>Re:And what's the problem here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269344760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"You just got the right to healthcare, but do you really want that going to illegal immigrants?"</p><p>That's actually a bizarre statement. The options are:</p><p>1) Illegal immigrants can pay for health care in the open market (potentially taxpayer subsidized).<br>2) We can pay for illegal immigrants to go to hospitals as indigent care (definitely taxpayer subsidized).</p><p>I don't really understand why people would go for #2. If I can choose 100\% loss vs. even 95\% loss, I'm going to go with the 95\%.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" You just got the right to healthcare , but do you really want that going to illegal immigrants ?
" That 's actually a bizarre statement .
The options are : 1 ) Illegal immigrants can pay for health care in the open market ( potentially taxpayer subsidized ) .2 ) We can pay for illegal immigrants to go to hospitals as indigent care ( definitely taxpayer subsidized ) .I do n't really understand why people would go for # 2 .
If I can choose 100 \ % loss vs. even 95 \ % loss , I 'm going to go with the 95 \ % .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You just got the right to healthcare, but do you really want that going to illegal immigrants?
"That's actually a bizarre statement.
The options are:1) Illegal immigrants can pay for health care in the open market (potentially taxpayer subsidized).2) We can pay for illegal immigrants to go to hospitals as indigent care (definitely taxpayer subsidized).I don't really understand why people would go for #2.
If I can choose 100\% loss vs. even 95\% loss, I'm going to go with the 95\%.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590696</id>
	<title>Good Idea</title>
	<author>medge\_42</author>
	<datestamp>1269345180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you introduce an ID card (basically formalising/simplifying your social security number system) and nationalise the driver's licenses the right wingers will freak and they will dedicate all their efforts in stopping it. This will allow the health care reforms to settle in and become accepted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you introduce an ID card ( basically formalising/simplifying your social security number system ) and nationalise the driver 's licenses the right wingers will freak and they will dedicate all their efforts in stopping it .
This will allow the health care reforms to settle in and become accepted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you introduce an ID card (basically formalising/simplifying your social security number system) and nationalise the driver's licenses the right wingers will freak and they will dedicate all their efforts in stopping it.
This will allow the health care reforms to settle in and become accepted.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591172</id>
	<title>US a democracy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269347040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wasn't one of the many reasons many of us have voted for Barack Obama that we was opposed to a national ID system? What's going on here?! This is shocking: http://www.unrealid.com/wp/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Was n't one of the many reasons many of us have voted for Barack Obama that we was opposed to a national ID system ?
What 's going on here ? !
This is shocking : http : //www.unrealid.com/wp/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wasn't one of the many reasons many of us have voted for Barack Obama that we was opposed to a national ID system?
What's going on here?!
This is shocking: http://www.unrealid.com/wp/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591086</id>
	<title>YUO FAIL IT!?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269346680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">create, m4nufacture are inherently Users', BigAzz, Your replies rather fly They lloked Legitimise doing</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>create , m4nufacture are inherently Users ' , BigAzz , Your replies rather fly They lloked Legitimise doing [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>create, m4nufacture are inherently Users', BigAzz, Your replies rather fly They lloked Legitimise doing [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591050</id>
	<title>Didn't this just come up in immigration bill?</title>
	<author>schwit1</author>
	<datestamp>1269346560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/03/09/1310210" title="slashdot.org">http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/03/09/1310210</a> [slashdot.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //yro.slashdot.org/article.pl ? sid = 10/03/09/1310210 [ slashdot.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/03/09/1310210 [slashdot.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591594</id>
	<title>Just big government</title>
	<author>ZonkerWilliam</author>
	<datestamp>1269349020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can see it now, "oh you aren't going to vote for us in the up coming election? Oh look here, your N-ID card has expired, sorry no work for you!"</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can see it now , " oh you are n't going to vote for us in the up coming election ?
Oh look here , your N-ID card has expired , sorry no work for you !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can see it now, "oh you aren't going to vote for us in the up coming election?
Oh look here, your N-ID card has expired, sorry no work for you!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31596540</id>
	<title>Predictable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269440100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Blah, blah, blah, nanny state, blah, blah, CCTV cameras , blah, blah, 'cos I can shoot anyone who disagrees with me, blah, blah, never happen in the USA... Oh!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Blah , blah , blah , nanny state , blah , blah , CCTV cameras , blah , blah , 'cos I can shoot anyone who disagrees with me , blah , blah , never happen in the USA... Oh !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Blah, blah, blah, nanny state, blah, blah, CCTV cameras , blah, blah, 'cos I can shoot anyone who disagrees with me, blah, blah, never happen in the USA... Oh!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31601754</id>
	<title>Re:We already have a national ID</title>
	<author>LeadSongDog</author>
	<datestamp>1269460920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's called a Passport</p></div><p>Get one for granny now so she can escape the country when "the committee" thinks her health coverage is too expensive.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's called a PassportGet one for granny now so she can escape the country when " the committee " thinks her health coverage is too expensive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's called a PassportGet one for granny now so she can escape the country when "the committee" thinks her health coverage is too expensive.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591006</id>
	<title>Do we really want this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269346380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Over the years there have been number of larger polls concerning a national ID system. Each and every time the results have been very conclusive and clear cut: The vast majority of Americans is strongly opposing the establishment of a national ID system. The reasons range from privacy to practical, philosophical, and religious concerns. Instead of weakening our constitutional rights and taking away our privacy little by little, our representatives need to respect democratic opinion and decisions and the will of its own people and stop trying to push a national ID system on us. This has happened in the UK where people are finally waking up and protesting on the streets now, only that it's too late for them. We are not in the UK, China, or North Korea here. The US is a democratic country and our government and representatives need to respect that. Period.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Over the years there have been number of larger polls concerning a national ID system .
Each and every time the results have been very conclusive and clear cut : The vast majority of Americans is strongly opposing the establishment of a national ID system .
The reasons range from privacy to practical , philosophical , and religious concerns .
Instead of weakening our constitutional rights and taking away our privacy little by little , our representatives need to respect democratic opinion and decisions and the will of its own people and stop trying to push a national ID system on us .
This has happened in the UK where people are finally waking up and protesting on the streets now , only that it 's too late for them .
We are not in the UK , China , or North Korea here .
The US is a democratic country and our government and representatives need to respect that .
Period .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Over the years there have been number of larger polls concerning a national ID system.
Each and every time the results have been very conclusive and clear cut: The vast majority of Americans is strongly opposing the establishment of a national ID system.
The reasons range from privacy to practical, philosophical, and religious concerns.
Instead of weakening our constitutional rights and taking away our privacy little by little, our representatives need to respect democratic opinion and decisions and the will of its own people and stop trying to push a national ID system on us.
This has happened in the UK where people are finally waking up and protesting on the streets now, only that it's too late for them.
We are not in the UK, China, or North Korea here.
The US is a democratic country and our government and representatives need to respect that.
Period.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591206</id>
	<title>This was a given LONG ago</title>
	<author>WindBourne</author>
	<datestamp>1269347160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nearly every country has a national ID. Now, America is larger than nearly all others, but there are good reasons to have a LIMITED use ID. In particular, for gov. benefits as well as jobs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nearly every country has a national ID .
Now , America is larger than nearly all others , but there are good reasons to have a LIMITED use ID .
In particular , for gov .
benefits as well as jobs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nearly every country has a national ID.
Now, America is larger than nearly all others, but there are good reasons to have a LIMITED use ID.
In particular, for gov.
benefits as well as jobs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31594054</id>
	<title>Re:Do we really want this?</title>
	<author>Astro Dr Dave</author>
	<datestamp>1269366540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Instead of weakening our constitutional rights and taking away our privacy little by little, our representatives need to respect democratic opinion and decisions and the will of its own people and stop trying to push a national ID system on us. This has happened in the UK where people are finally waking up and protesting on the streets now, only that it's too late for them. We are not in the UK, China, or North Korea here. The US is a democratic country and our government and representatives need to respect that. Period.</p></div><p>Too late for that.<br> <br>

Oh, and by the way, The US is not a democracy -- it's a constitutional republic. The federal government is supposed to be limited to those powers directly granted in the Constitution. Not that anyone in power actually pays attention to that little detail...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead of weakening our constitutional rights and taking away our privacy little by little , our representatives need to respect democratic opinion and decisions and the will of its own people and stop trying to push a national ID system on us .
This has happened in the UK where people are finally waking up and protesting on the streets now , only that it 's too late for them .
We are not in the UK , China , or North Korea here .
The US is a democratic country and our government and representatives need to respect that .
Period.Too late for that .
Oh , and by the way , The US is not a democracy -- it 's a constitutional republic .
The federal government is supposed to be limited to those powers directly granted in the Constitution .
Not that anyone in power actually pays attention to that little detail.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead of weakening our constitutional rights and taking away our privacy little by little, our representatives need to respect democratic opinion and decisions and the will of its own people and stop trying to push a national ID system on us.
This has happened in the UK where people are finally waking up and protesting on the streets now, only that it's too late for them.
We are not in the UK, China, or North Korea here.
The US is a democratic country and our government and representatives need to respect that.
Period.Too late for that.
Oh, and by the way, The US is not a democracy -- it's a constitutional republic.
The federal government is supposed to be limited to those powers directly granted in the Constitution.
Not that anyone in power actually pays attention to that little detail...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591006</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590802</id>
	<title>Just a bunch of hot air</title>
	<author>Attila Dimedici</author>
	<datestamp>1269345600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This proposal is just a bunch of hot air at this point. There is no bill introduced in either house of Congress that contains the provisions discussed in this article. This is just Lindsay Graham trying to ingratiate himself to the Democrats again. For those who think this would be used to keep illegal immigrants from receiving the benefits of this new health insurance bill, keep in mind, it is the Democrats who have been the most successful at getting their votes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This proposal is just a bunch of hot air at this point .
There is no bill introduced in either house of Congress that contains the provisions discussed in this article .
This is just Lindsay Graham trying to ingratiate himself to the Democrats again .
For those who think this would be used to keep illegal immigrants from receiving the benefits of this new health insurance bill , keep in mind , it is the Democrats who have been the most successful at getting their votes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This proposal is just a bunch of hot air at this point.
There is no bill introduced in either house of Congress that contains the provisions discussed in this article.
This is just Lindsay Graham trying to ingratiate himself to the Democrats again.
For those who think this would be used to keep illegal immigrants from receiving the benefits of this new health insurance bill, keep in mind, it is the Democrats who have been the most successful at getting their votes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593978</id>
	<title>Folks, what they're describing...</title>
	<author>JeffTL</author>
	<datestamp>1269365760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...is a <a href="http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt\_card/ppt\_card\_3926.html" title="state.gov">Passport Card</a> [state.gov] -- basically a secure national ID issued by the Department of State ($45 new, $35 renew for non-passport holders, $20 for passport holders, lasts 10 years).  Over a million Americans, including myself, carry one -- that's more than the population of the Omaha metro area.  It's for car, train, bus, and boat travel within North America, but can also be used as a single identification for getting a job (along with, if I recall, the standard ICAO-compliant passport and the green card), and is recognized by the TSA (for domestic air travel), liquor store, and just about anyone else who needs ID.  The RFID chip just has a database pointer, which differs from the card number if memory serves, but it comes with a tin foil hat just in case.</p><p>What this idea amounts to is transferring or cloning the passport card program into Social Security or Homeland Security.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...is a Passport Card [ state.gov ] -- basically a secure national ID issued by the Department of State ( $ 45 new , $ 35 renew for non-passport holders , $ 20 for passport holders , lasts 10 years ) .
Over a million Americans , including myself , carry one -- that 's more than the population of the Omaha metro area .
It 's for car , train , bus , and boat travel within North America , but can also be used as a single identification for getting a job ( along with , if I recall , the standard ICAO-compliant passport and the green card ) , and is recognized by the TSA ( for domestic air travel ) , liquor store , and just about anyone else who needs ID .
The RFID chip just has a database pointer , which differs from the card number if memory serves , but it comes with a tin foil hat just in case.What this idea amounts to is transferring or cloning the passport card program into Social Security or Homeland Security .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...is a Passport Card [state.gov] -- basically a secure national ID issued by the Department of State ($45 new, $35 renew for non-passport holders, $20 for passport holders, lasts 10 years).
Over a million Americans, including myself, carry one -- that's more than the population of the Omaha metro area.
It's for car, train, bus, and boat travel within North America, but can also be used as a single identification for getting a job (along with, if I recall, the standard ICAO-compliant passport and the green card), and is recognized by the TSA (for domestic air travel), liquor store, and just about anyone else who needs ID.
The RFID chip just has a database pointer, which differs from the card number if memory serves, but it comes with a tin foil hat just in case.What this idea amounts to is transferring or cloning the passport card program into Social Security or Homeland Security.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591082</id>
	<title>Re:Still think Obamacare is a good idea?</title>
	<author>codepunk</author>
	<datestamp>1269346680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it is a fantastic idea I get to drop my expensive health care insurance policy. The fine is far less than I pay a year and with premium increases it will only get more so. A insurance company will not be able to deny me coverage which is a killer deal. So I don't get insurance, pay a small fine and when I get sick then I will get a policy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it is a fantastic idea I get to drop my expensive health care insurance policy .
The fine is far less than I pay a year and with premium increases it will only get more so .
A insurance company will not be able to deny me coverage which is a killer deal .
So I do n't get insurance , pay a small fine and when I get sick then I will get a policy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it is a fantastic idea I get to drop my expensive health care insurance policy.
The fine is far less than I pay a year and with premium increases it will only get more so.
A insurance company will not be able to deny me coverage which is a killer deal.
So I don't get insurance, pay a small fine and when I get sick then I will get a policy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593990</id>
	<title>GG.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269365940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It was all because of Bush you morons? Seriously? Its all good now just because hes gone? Where are the protests, where are the ACLU lawyers?</p><p>America is dead. Both sides killed it by being hypocritical fucking morons.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It was all because of Bush you morons ?
Seriously ? Its all good now just because hes gone ?
Where are the protests , where are the ACLU lawyers ? America is dead .
Both sides killed it by being hypocritical fucking morons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was all because of Bush you morons?
Seriously? Its all good now just because hes gone?
Where are the protests, where are the ACLU lawyers?America is dead.
Both sides killed it by being hypocritical fucking morons.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593770</id>
	<title>'fraud proof' - yeah right</title>
	<author>jdogalt</author>
	<datestamp>1269364200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I stopped reading at 'fraud proof'.  If it's gonna happen, it'll happen.  But 'fraud proof' is a joke.</p><p>-SonicDawg</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I stopped reading at 'fraud proof' .
If it 's gon na happen , it 'll happen .
But 'fraud proof ' is a joke.-SonicDawg</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I stopped reading at 'fraud proof'.
If it's gonna happen, it'll happen.
But 'fraud proof' is a joke.-SonicDawg</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593784</id>
	<title>an ID isn't the problem</title>
	<author>MikeURL</author>
	<datestamp>1269364260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some people have the inane notion that they are only protected from their government by some fantasy privacy-land that hasn't existed for about 100 years.
<br> <br>
They seem to think that if people have privacy and guns that this will protect them from a government bent on herding them into concentration camps.
<br> <br>
In short, Americans have a VERY bizarre relationship with their government.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some people have the inane notion that they are only protected from their government by some fantasy privacy-land that has n't existed for about 100 years .
They seem to think that if people have privacy and guns that this will protect them from a government bent on herding them into concentration camps .
In short , Americans have a VERY bizarre relationship with their government .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some people have the inane notion that they are only protected from their government by some fantasy privacy-land that hasn't existed for about 100 years.
They seem to think that if people have privacy and guns that this will protect them from a government bent on herding them into concentration camps.
In short, Americans have a VERY bizarre relationship with their government.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591908</id>
	<title>why not ...</title>
	<author>bizitch</author>
	<datestamp>1269350520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>we are no longer free people anyway</p><p>why stop at id cards?</p><p>how soon before the tatoos and the RFID implants?</p><p>Big mama government needs to keep track of all her babies<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... cradle to grave</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>we are no longer free people anywaywhy stop at id cards ? how soon before the tatoos and the RFID implants ? Big mama government needs to keep track of all her babies ... cradle to grave</tokentext>
<sentencetext>we are no longer free people anywaywhy stop at id cards?how soon before the tatoos and the RFID implants?Big mama government needs to keep track of all her babies ... cradle to grave</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591560</id>
	<title>Re:How do Republicans support this?</title>
	<author>jmac\_the\_man</author>
	<datestamp>1269348780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The teabaggers would go ballistic, these are people ready to shoot at the census takers.</p></div><p>The incident you're referring to was in fact a <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/24/national/main5762511.shtml" title="cbsnews.com" rel="nofollow">suicide</a> [cbsnews.com], not an attack by anyone, and certainly not by Tea Party activists.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The teabaggers would go ballistic , these are people ready to shoot at the census takers.The incident you 're referring to was in fact a suicide [ cbsnews.com ] , not an attack by anyone , and certainly not by Tea Party activists .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The teabaggers would go ballistic, these are people ready to shoot at the census takers.The incident you're referring to was in fact a suicide [cbsnews.com], not an attack by anyone, and certainly not by Tea Party activists.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590642</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31595890</id>
	<title>Summary Trolling</title>
	<author>careysub</author>
	<datestamp>1269435900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It looks like very few, if any, people here have picked up on the trollish sleight-of-hand by the summary submitter. The referenced article does not tie the national ID card to the Health Care Reform bill in any way, and indeed, the ID card proposal is unrelated to it. This is clearly a bit of red-meat baiting.</p><p>The ID card proposal is co-sponsored by a <b>Republican</b> (notable in their complete absence of support for HCR) and a Democrat and addresses an issue that is dear to the entire right wing, Tea Party "enthusiasts" as well: suppressing illegal immigration.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It looks like very few , if any , people here have picked up on the trollish sleight-of-hand by the summary submitter .
The referenced article does not tie the national ID card to the Health Care Reform bill in any way , and indeed , the ID card proposal is unrelated to it .
This is clearly a bit of red-meat baiting.The ID card proposal is co-sponsored by a Republican ( notable in their complete absence of support for HCR ) and a Democrat and addresses an issue that is dear to the entire right wing , Tea Party " enthusiasts " as well : suppressing illegal immigration .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It looks like very few, if any, people here have picked up on the trollish sleight-of-hand by the summary submitter.
The referenced article does not tie the national ID card to the Health Care Reform bill in any way, and indeed, the ID card proposal is unrelated to it.
This is clearly a bit of red-meat baiting.The ID card proposal is co-sponsored by a Republican (notable in their complete absence of support for HCR) and a Democrat and addresses an issue that is dear to the entire right wing, Tea Party "enthusiasts" as well: suppressing illegal immigration.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590950</id>
	<title>A deck of cards...</title>
	<author>nilbog</author>
	<datestamp>1269346140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So DHS is going to make us get national driver's licenses.  Congress is going to make us get national ID cards.  Next FDA is going to make us all have some card in order to eat and every government agency from coast to coast is going to require some new card.</p><p>So let's see who can be first to market with a portable ID-card-dex.  "Let's see here's my FDA approval card that says I can eat... wait it's expired!  Ahhh!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So DHS is going to make us get national driver 's licenses .
Congress is going to make us get national ID cards .
Next FDA is going to make us all have some card in order to eat and every government agency from coast to coast is going to require some new card.So let 's see who can be first to market with a portable ID-card-dex .
" Let 's see here 's my FDA approval card that says I can eat... wait it 's expired !
Ahhh ! "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So DHS is going to make us get national driver's licenses.
Congress is going to make us get national ID cards.
Next FDA is going to make us all have some card in order to eat and every government agency from coast to coast is going to require some new card.So let's see who can be first to market with a portable ID-card-dex.
"Let's see here's my FDA approval card that says I can eat... wait it's expired!
Ahhh!"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590632</id>
	<title>Still think Obamacare is a good idea?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269344880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey all you slashdotters who though that nationalizing healthcare was a good idea:  Any buyer's remorse yet?  Remember, we're still on day one of Obamacare.  What new surprises can we expect from our newly-empowered paternal government in the weeks, months, and years to come?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey all you slashdotters who though that nationalizing healthcare was a good idea : Any buyer 's remorse yet ?
Remember , we 're still on day one of Obamacare .
What new surprises can we expect from our newly-empowered paternal government in the weeks , months , and years to come ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey all you slashdotters who though that nationalizing healthcare was a good idea:  Any buyer's remorse yet?
Remember, we're still on day one of Obamacare.
What new surprises can we expect from our newly-empowered paternal government in the weeks, months, and years to come?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31595782</id>
	<title>When being anonymous is outlawed</title>
	<author>quickgold192</author>
	<datestamp>1269434700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>only outlaws are anonymous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>only outlaws are anonymous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>only outlaws are anonymous.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593908</id>
	<title>Healthcare used to be cheap. Believe it or NOT!</title>
	<author>Paleolibertarian</author>
	<datestamp>1269365280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not knowing the average age of posters I'm willing to bet it's somewhere around 30. Well I'm almost 60 and I can tell you that health care used to be cheap. A doctor's visit was $8 and insurance cost me around $30/month but most people didn't need it because we were more fit back then.</p><p>So what happened? In one word I'll tell you. Government!</p><p>First the government mandated that employers provide insurance to their employees. The insurance companies loved this since it brought them more customers. The side effect however was that having insurance meant that instead of simply putting a band-aid on it people went to the doctor or the emergency room and the insurance company got billed. Higher demand and assurance of payment meant that doctors and hospitals could raise fees. Higher costs forced up insurance rates. Unfortunately the higher costs put more burden on people with fixed incomes and the poor. And lets not forget the unions hand in all of this.</p><p>So government created Medicare and Medicaid.</p><p>This was fucking great for the doctors, hospitals and even the insurance companies. Doctors and hospitals could charge more for their services and the insurance companies could raise their rates. More money running through the insurance companies means more cash flow, always a good thing.</p><p>Meanwhile people began to believe that medical care was a right and not something you had to pay for. The disconnecting of the cost-benefit ratio was removed from the consumer and thrust into the hands of Insurance companies and faceless bureaucrats.</p><p>Things went along like that with ever increasing costs and more demands for government to do something. So in order to get elected the knotheads in congress made more poorly thought-out laws. They kept getting elected by knothead voters. And so it goes.</p><p>So now, not only is medical care extremely expensive but the government will now force everyone to buy insurance even if they are young and strong and don't need it.</p><p>And the costs WILL go up.</p><p>Cost cutting won't work and will result in less quality and less availability. Even more of the costs will be taken up by paper(computer)work. I do consulting for a large medical clinic and about 1/3 or more of the staff have nothing to do with providing health care. Their jobs are exclusively doing the work necessary to bill the insurance companies or the government for payment. The billing costs so much that people with no insurance at all get a greatly reduced rate for care.</p><p>So everybody, despite all of the assurances from the news parrots and government lackeys, costs WILL go up and taxes WILL go up to pay for it. Either taxes will go up or the debt will go up. My guess is both will go up. Increases in taxes and debt are unsustainable and eventually lenders will stop lending and taxpayers won't be able to pay.</p><p>I hear the economy in Argentina is improving.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not knowing the average age of posters I 'm willing to bet it 's somewhere around 30 .
Well I 'm almost 60 and I can tell you that health care used to be cheap .
A doctor 's visit was $ 8 and insurance cost me around $ 30/month but most people did n't need it because we were more fit back then.So what happened ?
In one word I 'll tell you .
Government ! First the government mandated that employers provide insurance to their employees .
The insurance companies loved this since it brought them more customers .
The side effect however was that having insurance meant that instead of simply putting a band-aid on it people went to the doctor or the emergency room and the insurance company got billed .
Higher demand and assurance of payment meant that doctors and hospitals could raise fees .
Higher costs forced up insurance rates .
Unfortunately the higher costs put more burden on people with fixed incomes and the poor .
And lets not forget the unions hand in all of this.So government created Medicare and Medicaid.This was fucking great for the doctors , hospitals and even the insurance companies .
Doctors and hospitals could charge more for their services and the insurance companies could raise their rates .
More money running through the insurance companies means more cash flow , always a good thing.Meanwhile people began to believe that medical care was a right and not something you had to pay for .
The disconnecting of the cost-benefit ratio was removed from the consumer and thrust into the hands of Insurance companies and faceless bureaucrats.Things went along like that with ever increasing costs and more demands for government to do something .
So in order to get elected the knotheads in congress made more poorly thought-out laws .
They kept getting elected by knothead voters .
And so it goes.So now , not only is medical care extremely expensive but the government will now force everyone to buy insurance even if they are young and strong and do n't need it.And the costs WILL go up.Cost cutting wo n't work and will result in less quality and less availability .
Even more of the costs will be taken up by paper ( computer ) work .
I do consulting for a large medical clinic and about 1/3 or more of the staff have nothing to do with providing health care .
Their jobs are exclusively doing the work necessary to bill the insurance companies or the government for payment .
The billing costs so much that people with no insurance at all get a greatly reduced rate for care.So everybody , despite all of the assurances from the news parrots and government lackeys , costs WILL go up and taxes WILL go up to pay for it .
Either taxes will go up or the debt will go up .
My guess is both will go up .
Increases in taxes and debt are unsustainable and eventually lenders will stop lending and taxpayers wo n't be able to pay.I hear the economy in Argentina is improving .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not knowing the average age of posters I'm willing to bet it's somewhere around 30.
Well I'm almost 60 and I can tell you that health care used to be cheap.
A doctor's visit was $8 and insurance cost me around $30/month but most people didn't need it because we were more fit back then.So what happened?
In one word I'll tell you.
Government!First the government mandated that employers provide insurance to their employees.
The insurance companies loved this since it brought them more customers.
The side effect however was that having insurance meant that instead of simply putting a band-aid on it people went to the doctor or the emergency room and the insurance company got billed.
Higher demand and assurance of payment meant that doctors and hospitals could raise fees.
Higher costs forced up insurance rates.
Unfortunately the higher costs put more burden on people with fixed incomes and the poor.
And lets not forget the unions hand in all of this.So government created Medicare and Medicaid.This was fucking great for the doctors, hospitals and even the insurance companies.
Doctors and hospitals could charge more for their services and the insurance companies could raise their rates.
More money running through the insurance companies means more cash flow, always a good thing.Meanwhile people began to believe that medical care was a right and not something you had to pay for.
The disconnecting of the cost-benefit ratio was removed from the consumer and thrust into the hands of Insurance companies and faceless bureaucrats.Things went along like that with ever increasing costs and more demands for government to do something.
So in order to get elected the knotheads in congress made more poorly thought-out laws.
They kept getting elected by knothead voters.
And so it goes.So now, not only is medical care extremely expensive but the government will now force everyone to buy insurance even if they are young and strong and don't need it.And the costs WILL go up.Cost cutting won't work and will result in less quality and less availability.
Even more of the costs will be taken up by paper(computer)work.
I do consulting for a large medical clinic and about 1/3 or more of the staff have nothing to do with providing health care.
Their jobs are exclusively doing the work necessary to bill the insurance companies or the government for payment.
The billing costs so much that people with no insurance at all get a greatly reduced rate for care.So everybody, despite all of the assurances from the news parrots and government lackeys, costs WILL go up and taxes WILL go up to pay for it.
Either taxes will go up or the debt will go up.
My guess is both will go up.
Increases in taxes and debt are unsustainable and eventually lenders will stop lending and taxpayers won't be able to pay.I hear the economy in Argentina is improving.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590898</id>
	<title>National ID?</title>
	<author>DarkKnightRadick</author>
	<datestamp>1269345960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Didn't we already try this with RealID? Something that was uniformly rejected by almost every state in the Union? What's going to make it different now?</p><p>And no, I just ate dinner so I do not want to read the article. I am afraid it will just make me sick.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did n't we already try this with RealID ?
Something that was uniformly rejected by almost every state in the Union ?
What 's going to make it different now ? And no , I just ate dinner so I do not want to read the article .
I am afraid it will just make me sick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Didn't we already try this with RealID?
Something that was uniformly rejected by almost every state in the Union?
What's going to make it different now?And no, I just ate dinner so I do not want to read the article.
I am afraid it will just make me sick.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590946</id>
	<title>Past due</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269346140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have needed to update the whole Drivers License / Social Security Card / Passport / (other Government issued ID) thing for a while now, its a mess.</p><p>A single ID with standardized format and requirements would be useful.  One ID to rule them all.</p><p>Sure you'll still have 10 other cards in your wallet, but simplify the damn government required/issued ones to a single ID type.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have needed to update the whole Drivers License / Social Security Card / Passport / ( other Government issued ID ) thing for a while now , its a mess.A single ID with standardized format and requirements would be useful .
One ID to rule them all.Sure you 'll still have 10 other cards in your wallet , but simplify the damn government required/issued ones to a single ID type .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have needed to update the whole Drivers License / Social Security Card / Passport / (other Government issued ID) thing for a while now, its a mess.A single ID with standardized format and requirements would be useful.
One ID to rule them all.Sure you'll still have 10 other cards in your wallet, but simplify the damn government required/issued ones to a single ID type.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593378</id>
	<title>Re:Still think Obamacare is a good idea?</title>
	<author>StrategicIrony</author>
	<datestamp>1269360720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, I was thinking a national health system akin to Canada or Norway or Sweden or Finland or Denmark (all of whom rank higher in both median income and 'quality of living' in every single world economic survey than the US).</p><p>But, you have to remember that the only reason we DONT ALREADY HAVE (as a successor to the Patriot Act) a national ID card was resistance from the liberal democrats.</p><p>Now, I would think it might pass....    But I have a feeling the republicans are too busy trying to stick their thumb in Obama's eye to actually care about what the content of the bills are anymore.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , I was thinking a national health system akin to Canada or Norway or Sweden or Finland or Denmark ( all of whom rank higher in both median income and 'quality of living ' in every single world economic survey than the US ) .But , you have to remember that the only reason we DONT ALREADY HAVE ( as a successor to the Patriot Act ) a national ID card was resistance from the liberal democrats.Now , I would think it might pass.... But I have a feeling the republicans are too busy trying to stick their thumb in Obama 's eye to actually care about what the content of the bills are anymore .
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, I was thinking a national health system akin to Canada or Norway or Sweden or Finland or Denmark (all of whom rank higher in both median income and 'quality of living' in every single world economic survey than the US).But, you have to remember that the only reason we DONT ALREADY HAVE (as a successor to the Patriot Act) a national ID card was resistance from the liberal democrats.Now, I would think it might pass....    But I have a feeling the republicans are too busy trying to stick their thumb in Obama's eye to actually care about what the content of the bills are anymore.
:-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590842</id>
	<title>Fraud proof?</title>
	<author>gilesjuk</author>
	<datestamp>1269345780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's no such thing as fraud proof. Humans are involved in the process and humans are corruptible.</p><p>In fact, fraud proof makes it difficult to prove someone stole your identity if they some how manage to fraudulently apply for ID in your name.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's no such thing as fraud proof .
Humans are involved in the process and humans are corruptible.In fact , fraud proof makes it difficult to prove someone stole your identity if they some how manage to fraudulently apply for ID in your name .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's no such thing as fraud proof.
Humans are involved in the process and humans are corruptible.In fact, fraud proof makes it difficult to prove someone stole your identity if they some how manage to fraudulently apply for ID in your name.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590864</id>
	<title>Passport differenes?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269345840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And why is a national ID card so very different and frightening when you already have a "national" passport in the US?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And why is a national ID card so very different and frightening when you already have a " national " passport in the US ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And why is a national ID card so very different and frightening when you already have a "national" passport in the US?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31592470</id>
	<title>Re:Lol.</title>
	<author>ArcherB</author>
	<datestamp>1269354360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>You just got the right to healthcare, but do you really want that going to illegal immigrants?</p></div><p>Yes.</p></div><p>Then YOU should provide healthcare for illegal immigrants.  That's the beauty of a free country.  YOU can provide healthcare for illegals if you want to and I can NOT provide healthcare to illegals if I DON'T want to.</p><p>Oh, wait.  You were talking about taking MY money to pay for healthcare for illegals, weren't you?</p><p>So, let me make sure I understand this:<br>Forcing me and everyone else to purchase something does not limit my freedom.<br>Fining me for not purchasing something does not limit my freedom<br>Taking my property and using to purchase goods as services for others does not limit my freedom.</p><p>Making me carry a card and suddenly I no long have the ability to speak freely, practice my religion, own a firearm, peaceably assemble or any of the other nine Bill of Rights that the Constitution gives me (The 10th Amendment has been gone for quite some time).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You just got the right to healthcare , but do you really want that going to illegal immigrants ? Yes.Then YOU should provide healthcare for illegal immigrants .
That 's the beauty of a free country .
YOU can provide healthcare for illegals if you want to and I can NOT provide healthcare to illegals if I DO N'T want to.Oh , wait .
You were talking about taking MY money to pay for healthcare for illegals , were n't you ? So , let me make sure I understand this : Forcing me and everyone else to purchase something does not limit my freedom.Fining me for not purchasing something does not limit my freedomTaking my property and using to purchase goods as services for others does not limit my freedom.Making me carry a card and suddenly I no long have the ability to speak freely , practice my religion , own a firearm , peaceably assemble or any of the other nine Bill of Rights that the Constitution gives me ( The 10th Amendment has been gone for quite some time ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You just got the right to healthcare, but do you really want that going to illegal immigrants?Yes.Then YOU should provide healthcare for illegal immigrants.
That's the beauty of a free country.
YOU can provide healthcare for illegals if you want to and I can NOT provide healthcare to illegals if I DON'T want to.Oh, wait.
You were talking about taking MY money to pay for healthcare for illegals, weren't you?So, let me make sure I understand this:Forcing me and everyone else to purchase something does not limit my freedom.Fining me for not purchasing something does not limit my freedomTaking my property and using to purchase goods as services for others does not limit my freedom.Making me carry a card and suddenly I no long have the ability to speak freely, practice my religion, own a firearm, peaceably assemble or any of the other nine Bill of Rights that the Constitution gives me (The 10th Amendment has been gone for quite some time).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31594656</id>
	<title>Re:Still think Obamacare is a good idea?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269374160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow.. now that just went everywhere in the chart...<br>Are you 14?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow.. now that just went everywhere in the chart...Are you 14 ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow.. now that just went everywhere in the chart...Are you 14?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591140</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590702</id>
	<title>Finally, a proper social security card</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1269345180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's good we're finally going to get a proper social security card that is only used for the purpose of social security, and not as a general identification number that's treated as secret yet widely shared. No more will a social security card be used for other purposes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's good we 're finally going to get a proper social security card that is only used for the purpose of social security , and not as a general identification number that 's treated as secret yet widely shared .
No more will a social security card be used for other purposes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's good we're finally going to get a proper social security card that is only used for the purpose of social security, and not as a general identification number that's treated as secret yet widely shared.
No more will a social security card be used for other purposes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31594904</id>
	<title>Big Deal...</title>
	<author>Puppet Master</author>
	<datestamp>1269423300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We already have one.  It's called a Social Security Card...
<p>
Social Security is nothing more than a contract between you and the government to pay your taxes.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We already have one .
It 's called a Social Security Card.. . Social Security is nothing more than a contract between you and the government to pay your taxes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We already have one.
It's called a Social Security Card...

Social Security is nothing more than a contract between you and the government to pay your taxes.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31596752</id>
	<title>Re:How do Republicans support this?</title>
	<author>LanMan04</author>
	<datestamp>1269441540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But would you be surprised?  I sure as hell wouldn't....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But would you be surprised ?
I sure as hell would n't... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But would you be surprised?
I sure as hell wouldn't....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591560</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591044</id>
	<title>Re:Still think Obamacare is a good idea?</title>
	<author>kismet666</author>
	<datestamp>1269346560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm pretty pumped up, its nice when democracy leads to a little social good.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm pretty pumped up , its nice when democracy leads to a little social good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm pretty pumped up, its nice when democracy leads to a little social good.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593842</id>
	<title>Cool!!!</title>
	<author>NetNed</author>
	<datestamp>1269364680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most federal programs run SO smooth its no wonder that they would like to take some of the burden off the states as to give us all the sense of safety a national ID would give you and to have it all at the federal level? Bonus!<br> <br> <br> Nice to see we have many on here ready to curl up in a ball and take whatever beatings the federal government hands out like they were back in high school taking beatings from a bully. Acceptance of your new evil overloads indeed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most federal programs run SO smooth its no wonder that they would like to take some of the burden off the states as to give us all the sense of safety a national ID would give you and to have it all at the federal level ?
Bonus ! Nice to see we have many on here ready to curl up in a ball and take whatever beatings the federal government hands out like they were back in high school taking beatings from a bully .
Acceptance of your new evil overloads indeed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most federal programs run SO smooth its no wonder that they would like to take some of the burden off the states as to give us all the sense of safety a national ID would give you and to have it all at the federal level?
Bonus!   Nice to see we have many on here ready to curl up in a ball and take whatever beatings the federal government hands out like they were back in high school taking beatings from a bully.
Acceptance of your new evil overloads indeed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31592456</id>
	<title>Re:Lol.</title>
	<author>CajunArson</author>
	<datestamp>1269354360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fine, then I invite you to go out and be smug and self righteous with your <b>own</b> money to pay for all the healthcare some people claim to have a "right" to.</p><p>P.S. --&gt; When you use the government to steal, you lose all rights to accuse those evil corporations of doing the same thing. Wrong is still wrong no matter what political boilerplate it's buried under.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fine , then I invite you to go out and be smug and self righteous with your own money to pay for all the healthcare some people claim to have a " right " to.P.S .
-- &gt; When you use the government to steal , you lose all rights to accuse those evil corporations of doing the same thing .
Wrong is still wrong no matter what political boilerplate it 's buried under .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fine, then I invite you to go out and be smug and self righteous with your own money to pay for all the healthcare some people claim to have a "right" to.P.S.
--&gt; When you use the government to steal, you lose all rights to accuse those evil corporations of doing the same thing.
Wrong is still wrong no matter what political boilerplate it's buried under.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590578</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31597672</id>
	<title>What's next?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269445740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Travel papers?  The US is beginning to look(and sound) more and more like the old U.S.S.R.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Travel papers ?
The US is beginning to look ( and sound ) more and more like the old U.S.S.R .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Travel papers?
The US is beginning to look(and sound) more and more like the old U.S.S.R.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31594200</id>
	<title>Too late...</title>
	<author>JediLow</author>
	<datestamp>1269367860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Umm... its already too late, we <b>have</b> a national ID already on the books - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL\_ID\_Act" title="wikipedia.org">Real ID</a> [wikipedia.org]
<p>
What's happened with it? Almost all of the states have fought against it, and it's been stuck in a implementation black hole.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm... its already too late , we have a national ID already on the books - Real ID [ wikipedia.org ] What 's happened with it ?
Almost all of the states have fought against it , and it 's been stuck in a implementation black hole .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm... its already too late, we have a national ID already on the books - Real ID [wikipedia.org]

What's happened with it?
Almost all of the states have fought against it, and it's been stuck in a implementation black hole.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31592666</id>
	<title>Re:Still think Obamacare is a good idea?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269355440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Right, because ER treatment is so cheap and cost effective.</p><p>Won't someone think of all the damage reducing the number of sick days taken will do to our economy!?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , because ER treatment is so cheap and cost effective.Wo n't someone think of all the damage reducing the number of sick days taken will do to our economy !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, because ER treatment is so cheap and cost effective.Won't someone think of all the damage reducing the number of sick days taken will do to our economy!
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591140</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590484</id>
	<title>And what's the problem here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269344400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not sure why Slashdot is so afraid of this. You don't have a right to be anonymous to your employer. You don't have a right to avoid taxes. You just got the right to healthcare, but do you really want that going to illegal immigrants? We already drive around with standardized (yet customizable non-materially) license plates on our cars. You already need proof of government permission and proof somebody's going to pay if you hit something to drive a car. You aren't supposed to be able to get on a plane anonymously...</p><p>Let's not think of the things we'd be able to get away with with a fake id... and start thinking how we can make sure somebody else can't fake their ID for our mutual protection.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure why Slashdot is so afraid of this .
You do n't have a right to be anonymous to your employer .
You do n't have a right to avoid taxes .
You just got the right to healthcare , but do you really want that going to illegal immigrants ?
We already drive around with standardized ( yet customizable non-materially ) license plates on our cars .
You already need proof of government permission and proof somebody 's going to pay if you hit something to drive a car .
You are n't supposed to be able to get on a plane anonymously...Let 's not think of the things we 'd be able to get away with with a fake id... and start thinking how we can make sure somebody else ca n't fake their ID for our mutual protection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure why Slashdot is so afraid of this.
You don't have a right to be anonymous to your employer.
You don't have a right to avoid taxes.
You just got the right to healthcare, but do you really want that going to illegal immigrants?
We already drive around with standardized (yet customizable non-materially) license plates on our cars.
You already need proof of government permission and proof somebody's going to pay if you hit something to drive a car.
You aren't supposed to be able to get on a plane anonymously...Let's not think of the things we'd be able to get away with with a fake id... and start thinking how we can make sure somebody else can't fake their ID for our mutual protection.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590924</id>
	<title>Obama lied, America died!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269346020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Those who defend Obama are just as guilty as he is.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Those who defend Obama are just as guilty as he is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those who defend Obama are just as guilty as he is.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593796</id>
	<title>Re:Fraud proof?</title>
	<author>cgenman</author>
	<datestamp>1269364320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most ID systems in this country accept a notarized birth certificate as proof of who you are.  If you can acquire a real or fake birth certificate, you can leverage yourself into state ID cards, credit cards, and passports.  As long as that is the basis for identification, a notarized piece of paper that has no uniquely identifying elements, fraud will still be reasonably easy for anyone determined enough.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most ID systems in this country accept a notarized birth certificate as proof of who you are .
If you can acquire a real or fake birth certificate , you can leverage yourself into state ID cards , credit cards , and passports .
As long as that is the basis for identification , a notarized piece of paper that has no uniquely identifying elements , fraud will still be reasonably easy for anyone determined enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most ID systems in this country accept a notarized birth certificate as proof of who you are.
If you can acquire a real or fake birth certificate, you can leverage yourself into state ID cards, credit cards, and passports.
As long as that is the basis for identification, a notarized piece of paper that has no uniquely identifying elements, fraud will still be reasonably easy for anyone determined enough.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590842</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591692</id>
	<title>Of the Devil (teh debbil?)</title>
	<author>Pezbian</author>
	<datestamp>1269349560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So how long do we have until the Loudmouthed Fundie Retard crap about teh Debbil assigning everyone a number comes along?</p><p>There are already mobs, with half a set of teeth split among them, who "don't take kahndly tuh havin a neegurr n duh whaht hayouse" and think Obama's "dee Antuhchrahst".</p><p>But then these are the oh-so-oppressed "master race" types who would be kept alive by the health care thing.  Hoo boy for the inner conflict.  Though they'd probably just claim they're putting one over on the "ZOG" or whatever by living to fight another day--against jew bankers or whatever the flavor of the week is.</p><p>"Whaht Paar", indeed... *facepalm*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So how long do we have until the Loudmouthed Fundie Retard crap about teh Debbil assigning everyone a number comes along ? There are already mobs , with half a set of teeth split among them , who " do n't take kahndly tuh havin a neegurr n duh whaht hayouse " and think Obama 's " dee Antuhchrahst " .But then these are the oh-so-oppressed " master race " types who would be kept alive by the health care thing .
Hoo boy for the inner conflict .
Though they 'd probably just claim they 're putting one over on the " ZOG " or whatever by living to fight another day--against jew bankers or whatever the flavor of the week is .
" Whaht Paar " , indeed... * facepalm *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So how long do we have until the Loudmouthed Fundie Retard crap about teh Debbil assigning everyone a number comes along?There are already mobs, with half a set of teeth split among them, who "don't take kahndly tuh havin a neegurr n duh whaht hayouse" and think Obama's "dee Antuhchrahst".But then these are the oh-so-oppressed "master race" types who would be kept alive by the health care thing.
Hoo boy for the inner conflict.
Though they'd probably just claim they're putting one over on the "ZOG" or whatever by living to fight another day--against jew bankers or whatever the flavor of the week is.
"Whaht Paar", indeed... *facepalm*</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31595922</id>
	<title>Well</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269436320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or[a] the name of the beast, or the number of his name.<br>18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or [ a ] the name of the beast , or the number of his name.18 Here is wisdom .
Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast , for it is the number of a man : His number is 666 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or[a] the name of the beast, or the number of his name.18 Here is wisdom.
Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591188</id>
	<title>It's an interesting question</title>
	<author>starseeker</author>
	<datestamp>1269347100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As the technology to collect and manage information becomes ever more inexpensive, it becomes more and more of an effort to AVOID having data available to the government in such a way that it can be abused.  When things get to the point where the drivers-license level data for every person in the USA can be causally tossed onto a thumb drive and taken to the next meeting, it becomes VERY hard to NOT use that data.</p><p>Well intentioned uses of such data abound, and some will be not only well intentioned but actually helpful (it is quite probable, for example, that correct use of a national DNA database WOULD allow many crimes to be solved that are not currently solved, just as fingerprint databases have been so useful.)  Abuse of this data (particularly if the correctness of the data is trusted too much) by those in power is the counterpoint, and that is equally real (and equally scary).  The problem is, the easier it gets to collect data the harder it is to be SURE it's thrown away if its intended to be thrown away.  From some of the stores Slashdot has run about Britain, once they get ahold of your DNA they hang onto it, period.  From their point of view, it might be useful in the future and its harmless sitting there in a database if its never used.  If the agents of the system and those making the laws could be fully trusted, this might even be true.  The problem is neither requirement holds.  Law enforcement isn't perfect, and laws aren't either.</p><p>The balance of society is between empowering enforcers of the law to catch criminals and limiting the damage they can do when those enforcers go astray.  My guess is given technological trends, the balance in the information game is going to have to shift from restriction of available information to stronger punishment for misuse and weaker assumptions about the automatic correctness of any personal info database.  It's going to become too easy to collect too much information, and once collected it's very hard to uncollect it.  Eventually, things will reach the point where a desire to NOT have your information on record will be an automatic flag, kinda like how the fuzzy areas on Google Maps are an automatic flag of "hey, there might be something interesting there."  No idea were all this will lead, but I have a feeling technology will compel us to find out.</p><p>One though that might be worth thinking about - if there has to be a national database of all this stuff, have it widely distributed and copied at many locations, so that it's extremely difficult to push a universal change through any mechanism except one that makes records of the change (sort of a subversion database for law enforcement records - no anonymous changes and every change logged, as well as all historical database states being preserved.  If records are ever changed erroneously, make it extremely difficult to do this without it being clear WHO did it)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As the technology to collect and manage information becomes ever more inexpensive , it becomes more and more of an effort to AVOID having data available to the government in such a way that it can be abused .
When things get to the point where the drivers-license level data for every person in the USA can be causally tossed onto a thumb drive and taken to the next meeting , it becomes VERY hard to NOT use that data.Well intentioned uses of such data abound , and some will be not only well intentioned but actually helpful ( it is quite probable , for example , that correct use of a national DNA database WOULD allow many crimes to be solved that are not currently solved , just as fingerprint databases have been so useful .
) Abuse of this data ( particularly if the correctness of the data is trusted too much ) by those in power is the counterpoint , and that is equally real ( and equally scary ) .
The problem is , the easier it gets to collect data the harder it is to be SURE it 's thrown away if its intended to be thrown away .
From some of the stores Slashdot has run about Britain , once they get ahold of your DNA they hang onto it , period .
From their point of view , it might be useful in the future and its harmless sitting there in a database if its never used .
If the agents of the system and those making the laws could be fully trusted , this might even be true .
The problem is neither requirement holds .
Law enforcement is n't perfect , and laws are n't either.The balance of society is between empowering enforcers of the law to catch criminals and limiting the damage they can do when those enforcers go astray .
My guess is given technological trends , the balance in the information game is going to have to shift from restriction of available information to stronger punishment for misuse and weaker assumptions about the automatic correctness of any personal info database .
It 's going to become too easy to collect too much information , and once collected it 's very hard to uncollect it .
Eventually , things will reach the point where a desire to NOT have your information on record will be an automatic flag , kinda like how the fuzzy areas on Google Maps are an automatic flag of " hey , there might be something interesting there .
" No idea were all this will lead , but I have a feeling technology will compel us to find out.One though that might be worth thinking about - if there has to be a national database of all this stuff , have it widely distributed and copied at many locations , so that it 's extremely difficult to push a universal change through any mechanism except one that makes records of the change ( sort of a subversion database for law enforcement records - no anonymous changes and every change logged , as well as all historical database states being preserved .
If records are ever changed erroneously , make it extremely difficult to do this without it being clear WHO did it )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As the technology to collect and manage information becomes ever more inexpensive, it becomes more and more of an effort to AVOID having data available to the government in such a way that it can be abused.
When things get to the point where the drivers-license level data for every person in the USA can be causally tossed onto a thumb drive and taken to the next meeting, it becomes VERY hard to NOT use that data.Well intentioned uses of such data abound, and some will be not only well intentioned but actually helpful (it is quite probable, for example, that correct use of a national DNA database WOULD allow many crimes to be solved that are not currently solved, just as fingerprint databases have been so useful.
)  Abuse of this data (particularly if the correctness of the data is trusted too much) by those in power is the counterpoint, and that is equally real (and equally scary).
The problem is, the easier it gets to collect data the harder it is to be SURE it's thrown away if its intended to be thrown away.
From some of the stores Slashdot has run about Britain, once they get ahold of your DNA they hang onto it, period.
From their point of view, it might be useful in the future and its harmless sitting there in a database if its never used.
If the agents of the system and those making the laws could be fully trusted, this might even be true.
The problem is neither requirement holds.
Law enforcement isn't perfect, and laws aren't either.The balance of society is between empowering enforcers of the law to catch criminals and limiting the damage they can do when those enforcers go astray.
My guess is given technological trends, the balance in the information game is going to have to shift from restriction of available information to stronger punishment for misuse and weaker assumptions about the automatic correctness of any personal info database.
It's going to become too easy to collect too much information, and once collected it's very hard to uncollect it.
Eventually, things will reach the point where a desire to NOT have your information on record will be an automatic flag, kinda like how the fuzzy areas on Google Maps are an automatic flag of "hey, there might be something interesting there.
"  No idea were all this will lead, but I have a feeling technology will compel us to find out.One though that might be worth thinking about - if there has to be a national database of all this stuff, have it widely distributed and copied at many locations, so that it's extremely difficult to push a universal change through any mechanism except one that makes records of the change (sort of a subversion database for law enforcement records - no anonymous changes and every change logged, as well as all historical database states being preserved.
If records are ever changed erroneously, make it extremely difficult to do this without it being clear WHO did it)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590642</id>
	<title>How do Republicans support this?</title>
	<author>HangingChad</author>
	<datestamp>1269344940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>US lawmakers 'are proposing a national identification card, a 'fraud-proof' Social Security card required for lawful employment in the United States.</i>

</p><p>The teabaggers would go ballistic, these are people ready to shoot at the census takers.  You can't pander to the fringe and then throw them under the bus when they become inconvenient.

</p><p>You can't have government health care (like Congress gets) but you have to get a national ID.  I don't see those as intellectually compatible positions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>US lawmakers 'are proposing a national identification card , a 'fraud-proof ' Social Security card required for lawful employment in the United States .
The teabaggers would go ballistic , these are people ready to shoot at the census takers .
You ca n't pander to the fringe and then throw them under the bus when they become inconvenient .
You ca n't have government health care ( like Congress gets ) but you have to get a national ID .
I do n't see those as intellectually compatible positions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> US lawmakers 'are proposing a national identification card, a 'fraud-proof' Social Security card required for lawful employment in the United States.
The teabaggers would go ballistic, these are people ready to shoot at the census takers.
You can't pander to the fringe and then throw them under the bus when they become inconvenient.
You can't have government health care (like Congress gets) but you have to get a national ID.
I don't see those as intellectually compatible positions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591286</id>
	<title>You mean RealID?</title>
	<author>BlueBoxSW.com</author>
	<datestamp>1269347520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That was passed as part of the patriot act?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That was passed as part of the patriot act ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That was passed as part of the patriot act?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591014</id>
	<title>Damn You George Bush!!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269346440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll be glad when Obama is finally inaugurated!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll be glad when Obama is finally inaugurated !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll be glad when Obama is finally inaugurated!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590578</id>
	<title>Lol.</title>
	<author>Colin Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1269344700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You just got the right to healthcare, but do you really want that going to illegal immigrants?</p></div><p>Yes.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You just got the right to healthcare , but do you really want that going to illegal immigrants ? Yes .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>You just got the right to healthcare, but do you really want that going to illegal immigrants?Yes.
 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590484</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591354</id>
	<title>security is the problem</title>
	<author>DaveGod</author>
	<datestamp>1269347760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There's plenty government etc conspiracy theories but the #1 concern is just how high value a target a centralised personal information resource is. It also means the inevitable situation where the ID card is always assumed to be correct and all other indicators to the contrary must be false. If you rely 100\% on one thing that is not 100\% secure then not only are you completely insecure, but you don't have any way of knowing that fact.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's plenty government etc conspiracy theories but the # 1 concern is just how high value a target a centralised personal information resource is .
It also means the inevitable situation where the ID card is always assumed to be correct and all other indicators to the contrary must be false .
If you rely 100 \ % on one thing that is not 100 \ % secure then not only are you completely insecure , but you do n't have any way of knowing that fact .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's plenty government etc conspiracy theories but the #1 concern is just how high value a target a centralised personal information resource is.
It also means the inevitable situation where the ID card is always assumed to be correct and all other indicators to the contrary must be false.
If you rely 100\% on one thing that is not 100\% secure then not only are you completely insecure, but you don't have any way of knowing that fact.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31599476</id>
	<title>Humans as Numbers</title>
	<author>manlygeek</author>
	<datestamp>1269452460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There seem to be quite a few comments here that say basically "What's wrong with being positively ID'd?)  That's not actually the real problem.  The problem is reducing a person to a number.  Regardless of what is "promised", as soon a a person can be identified with a number, everything about that person will be accumulated under that number, including how many calories you eat in a day, how many miles you drive and what kind of vehicle is used, what you write, how many times you breath, whether or not you have an STD, and how many times you bought cold medicine that just happens to contains psuedophedrine, etc.  Is this really the business of Big Brother?  And when you want to speak against the excesses of Big Brother, do you even begin to understand how difficult that will be without some modicum of anonymity?!?!  You are dangerously naive if you think this is a good idea.  I am a human, I am NOT a number, derived or randomly assigned.  As I have said previously, this is quickly becoming an Imperial State where our inalienable rights are being alienated at a frightening pace.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There seem to be quite a few comments here that say basically " What 's wrong with being positively ID 'd ?
) That 's not actually the real problem .
The problem is reducing a person to a number .
Regardless of what is " promised " , as soon a a person can be identified with a number , everything about that person will be accumulated under that number , including how many calories you eat in a day , how many miles you drive and what kind of vehicle is used , what you write , how many times you breath , whether or not you have an STD , and how many times you bought cold medicine that just happens to contains psuedophedrine , etc .
Is this really the business of Big Brother ?
And when you want to speak against the excesses of Big Brother , do you even begin to understand how difficult that will be without some modicum of anonymity ? ! ? !
You are dangerously naive if you think this is a good idea .
I am a human , I am NOT a number , derived or randomly assigned .
As I have said previously , this is quickly becoming an Imperial State where our inalienable rights are being alienated at a frightening pace .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There seem to be quite a few comments here that say basically "What's wrong with being positively ID'd?
)  That's not actually the real problem.
The problem is reducing a person to a number.
Regardless of what is "promised", as soon a a person can be identified with a number, everything about that person will be accumulated under that number, including how many calories you eat in a day, how many miles you drive and what kind of vehicle is used, what you write, how many times you breath, whether or not you have an STD, and how many times you bought cold medicine that just happens to contains psuedophedrine, etc.
Is this really the business of Big Brother?
And when you want to speak against the excesses of Big Brother, do you even begin to understand how difficult that will be without some modicum of anonymity?!?!
You are dangerously naive if you think this is a good idea.
I am a human, I am NOT a number, derived or randomly assigned.
As I have said previously, this is quickly becoming an Imperial State where our inalienable rights are being alienated at a frightening pace.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31592616</id>
	<title>Re:Lol.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269355200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Making me carry a card and suddenly I no long have the ability to speak freely, practice my religion, own a firearm, peaceably assemble or any of the other nine Bill of Rights that the Constitution gives me</p></div></blockquote><p>You'll have to explain how that follows.</p><p>Nobody says you have to "carry a card".</p><p>You use the card if you want to identify yourself to apply for a job or to show up at a hospital and ask for medical services as an American.  Just like you have to show an ID when you get on an airplane or cross into any country in the world.  Just like you have to "carry a card" when you drive a car.</p><p>Now that we have states in the US that are bigger than the entire original 13 colonies, I never understand how people believe the national government doing something is so different from a state doing something.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Making me carry a card and suddenly I no long have the ability to speak freely , practice my religion , own a firearm , peaceably assemble or any of the other nine Bill of Rights that the Constitution gives meYou 'll have to explain how that follows.Nobody says you have to " carry a card " .You use the card if you want to identify yourself to apply for a job or to show up at a hospital and ask for medical services as an American .
Just like you have to show an ID when you get on an airplane or cross into any country in the world .
Just like you have to " carry a card " when you drive a car.Now that we have states in the US that are bigger than the entire original 13 colonies , I never understand how people believe the national government doing something is so different from a state doing something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Making me carry a card and suddenly I no long have the ability to speak freely, practice my religion, own a firearm, peaceably assemble or any of the other nine Bill of Rights that the Constitution gives meYou'll have to explain how that follows.Nobody says you have to "carry a card".You use the card if you want to identify yourself to apply for a job or to show up at a hospital and ask for medical services as an American.
Just like you have to show an ID when you get on an airplane or cross into any country in the world.
Just like you have to "carry a card" when you drive a car.Now that we have states in the US that are bigger than the entire original 13 colonies, I never understand how people believe the national government doing something is so different from a state doing something.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31592470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593170</id>
	<title>I'd say just tear up the Constitution now</title>
	<author>(arg!)Styopa</author>
	<datestamp>1269359160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...but Congress and the President currently are using it for toilet paper.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...but Congress and the President currently are using it for toilet paper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...but Congress and the President currently are using it for toilet paper.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31592698</id>
	<title>Meh</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1269355680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work for a foreign corporation. They don't care whether or not I have a SSN (I'm an LLC as far as the US gov't is concerned). If I didn't have the magic ID card, they wouldn't give a damn. I do the work, they pay me. Staying out of US tax court is my problem, not theirs.
</p><p>I'm starting to see more people in my profession (engineering) working for overseas bosses because of the onerous tax and other regulations placed on contractors in this country. I'm sure more will follow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work for a foreign corporation .
They do n't care whether or not I have a SSN ( I 'm an LLC as far as the US gov't is concerned ) .
If I did n't have the magic ID card , they would n't give a damn .
I do the work , they pay me .
Staying out of US tax court is my problem , not theirs .
I 'm starting to see more people in my profession ( engineering ) working for overseas bosses because of the onerous tax and other regulations placed on contractors in this country .
I 'm sure more will follow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work for a foreign corporation.
They don't care whether or not I have a SSN (I'm an LLC as far as the US gov't is concerned).
If I didn't have the magic ID card, they wouldn't give a damn.
I do the work, they pay me.
Staying out of US tax court is my problem, not theirs.
I'm starting to see more people in my profession (engineering) working for overseas bosses because of the onerous tax and other regulations placed on contractors in this country.
I'm sure more will follow.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591030</id>
	<title>Presumption of illegality</title>
	<author>DragonWriter</author>
	<datestamp>1269346440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>US lawmakers "are proposing a national identification card, a 'fraud-proof' Social Security card required for lawful employment in the United States.</p></div> </blockquote><p>This essentially is just furthering the "presumption of illegality" -- the presumption that a person is <i>not allowed</i> to work in the United States.</p><p>This is a fairly intrusive, insulting to the legal worker, and unnecessarily burdensome on business set of requirements that have all come into place because Congress writes immigration laws that are broken-by-design, and fails to enforce them effectively.</p><p>If we'd fix the fundamental structure of our immigration system to deal with the underlying problems, there wouldn't be the problems that we keep getting these kinds of band-aid "fixes" (like I-9 requirements) for, which never work.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>US lawmakers " are proposing a national identification card , a 'fraud-proof ' Social Security card required for lawful employment in the United States .
This essentially is just furthering the " presumption of illegality " -- the presumption that a person is not allowed to work in the United States.This is a fairly intrusive , insulting to the legal worker , and unnecessarily burdensome on business set of requirements that have all come into place because Congress writes immigration laws that are broken-by-design , and fails to enforce them effectively.If we 'd fix the fundamental structure of our immigration system to deal with the underlying problems , there would n't be the problems that we keep getting these kinds of band-aid " fixes " ( like I-9 requirements ) for , which never work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>US lawmakers "are proposing a national identification card, a 'fraud-proof' Social Security card required for lawful employment in the United States.
This essentially is just furthering the "presumption of illegality" -- the presumption that a person is not allowed to work in the United States.This is a fairly intrusive, insulting to the legal worker, and unnecessarily burdensome on business set of requirements that have all come into place because Congress writes immigration laws that are broken-by-design, and fails to enforce them effectively.If we'd fix the fundamental structure of our immigration system to deal with the underlying problems, there wouldn't be the problems that we keep getting these kinds of band-aid "fixes" (like I-9 requirements) for, which never work.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31592516</id>
	<title>Re:Presumption of illegality</title>
	<author>frank\_adrian314159</author>
	<datestamp>1269354600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>This is a fairly intrusive, insulting to the legal worker, and unnecessarily burdensome on business set of requirements that have all come into place because Congress writes immigration laws that are broken-by-design, and fails to enforce them effectively.</i> </p><p>How are you going to "enforce them effectively" if you can't positively and quickly identify those who are allowed to be in/work in the country? I know... We'll just round up anyone who looks Hispanic or speaks with a funny accent and send them to Mexico (or China or Russia or some random Middle Eastern country or...).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a fairly intrusive , insulting to the legal worker , and unnecessarily burdensome on business set of requirements that have all come into place because Congress writes immigration laws that are broken-by-design , and fails to enforce them effectively .
How are you going to " enforce them effectively " if you ca n't positively and quickly identify those who are allowed to be in/work in the country ?
I know... We 'll just round up anyone who looks Hispanic or speaks with a funny accent and send them to Mexico ( or China or Russia or some random Middle Eastern country or... ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a fairly intrusive, insulting to the legal worker, and unnecessarily burdensome on business set of requirements that have all come into place because Congress writes immigration laws that are broken-by-design, and fails to enforce them effectively.
How are you going to "enforce them effectively" if you can't positively and quickly identify those who are allowed to be in/work in the country?
I know... We'll just round up anyone who looks Hispanic or speaks with a funny accent and send them to Mexico (or China or Russia or some random Middle Eastern country or...).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591724</id>
	<title>We already have a national ID</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269349680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I got mine using a photo ID (state drivers license), birth certificate, Social Security Card, and alternate photo.</p><p>It's called a Passport.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I got mine using a photo ID ( state drivers license ) , birth certificate , Social Security Card , and alternate photo.It 's called a Passport .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got mine using a photo ID (state drivers license), birth certificate, Social Security Card, and alternate photo.It's called a Passport.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31595296</id>
	<title>Re:Still think Obamacare is a good idea?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269429720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Remains to be seen who pays for the ID card.</p><p>In UK and Australia there is some hideous surcharge onto your passport - it don't cost that much to make. Loose it, and you are up for more. Why bother, given some nations can make their own and party in Dubai. Australia is about to issue a HID (Health ID).</p><p>As for illegals - if they are in ER why is immigration(deportation) not scooping them into buses?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Remains to be seen who pays for the ID card.In UK and Australia there is some hideous surcharge onto your passport - it do n't cost that much to make .
Loose it , and you are up for more .
Why bother , given some nations can make their own and party in Dubai .
Australia is about to issue a HID ( Health ID ) .As for illegals - if they are in ER why is immigration ( deportation ) not scooping them into buses ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remains to be seen who pays for the ID card.In UK and Australia there is some hideous surcharge onto your passport - it don't cost that much to make.
Loose it, and you are up for more.
Why bother, given some nations can make their own and party in Dubai.
Australia is about to issue a HID (Health ID).As for illegals - if they are in ER why is immigration(deportation) not scooping them into buses?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591140</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31597054</id>
	<title>Re:Folks, what they're describing...</title>
	<author>Dr. Eggman</author>
	<datestamp>1269443160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>$45 new? Mine cost $100 ($75 for the passport, $25 Execution fee) <a href="http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/fees/fees\_837.html" title="state.gov">see for yourself</a> [state.gov].</htmltext>
<tokenext>$ 45 new ?
Mine cost $ 100 ( $ 75 for the passport , $ 25 Execution fee ) see for yourself [ state.gov ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>$45 new?
Mine cost $100 ($75 for the passport, $25 Execution fee) see for yourself [state.gov].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31600788</id>
	<title>Re:Still think Obamacare is a good idea?</title>
	<author>Kymermosst</author>
	<datestamp>1269457320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>And if you're confused as to how treating illegal immigrants will fail to bankrupt us, it's the same as with poor people: They already are  receiving treatment, but at the ER, not at a regular doctor.</i></p><p>Yep, and they should be fined for each time they go to the emergency room for an obviously non-life-threatening situation.</p><p>There are people out there that insist on going to see a doctor basically every time they sneeze.  Constant <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi\_m0FSW/is\_4\_17/ai\_n18608820/" title="findarticles.com">overuse of the emergency room</a> [findarticles.com] should have consequences.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And if you 're confused as to how treating illegal immigrants will fail to bankrupt us , it 's the same as with poor people : They already are receiving treatment , but at the ER , not at a regular doctor.Yep , and they should be fined for each time they go to the emergency room for an obviously non-life-threatening situation.There are people out there that insist on going to see a doctor basically every time they sneeze .
Constant overuse of the emergency room [ findarticles.com ] should have consequences .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And if you're confused as to how treating illegal immigrants will fail to bankrupt us, it's the same as with poor people: They already are  receiving treatment, but at the ER, not at a regular doctor.Yep, and they should be fined for each time they go to the emergency room for an obviously non-life-threatening situation.There are people out there that insist on going to see a doctor basically every time they sneeze.
Constant overuse of the emergency room [findarticles.com] should have consequences.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591140</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593240</id>
	<title>Re:Just a bunch of hot air</title>
	<author>FutureDomain</author>
	<datestamp>1269359700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This is just Lindsay Graham trying to ingratiate himself to the Democrats again.</p></div><p>He shouldn't bother. We're throwing him out with the rest of the scumbags.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just Lindsay Graham trying to ingratiate himself to the Democrats again.He should n't bother .
We 're throwing him out with the rest of the scumbags .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just Lindsay Graham trying to ingratiate himself to the Democrats again.He shouldn't bother.
We're throwing him out with the rest of the scumbags.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590802</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591022</id>
	<title>Considering ... what?</title>
	<author>wytcld</author>
	<datestamp>1269346440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The article says nothing about this proposal being in consideration of the nation's new health care plan. What's the logic that it would be? It makes sense in connection with immigration control and jobs. But the liberals don't care much if illegal immigrants get health care - which most of them could get under their home countries' national plans anyhow (Mexico has one), so it's not what they come here for. And the tea partiers don't think the trade off between a strong national id and freedom is worth it, even to help keep the immigrants out.</p><p>News flash. Unemployment is high. A kennel in Snohomish just posted a Craigslist ad for a minimum-wage part-time dogshit-shoveler, and got &gt; 250 resumes in response. People really, really would like every one of those jobs back from the paperless immigrants. And that's why this national id thing - which even a liberal-leaner like me is against - is likely to fly in this climate. Health care plans are hardly a factor here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The article says nothing about this proposal being in consideration of the nation 's new health care plan .
What 's the logic that it would be ?
It makes sense in connection with immigration control and jobs .
But the liberals do n't care much if illegal immigrants get health care - which most of them could get under their home countries ' national plans anyhow ( Mexico has one ) , so it 's not what they come here for .
And the tea partiers do n't think the trade off between a strong national id and freedom is worth it , even to help keep the immigrants out.News flash .
Unemployment is high .
A kennel in Snohomish just posted a Craigslist ad for a minimum-wage part-time dogshit-shoveler , and got &gt; 250 resumes in response .
People really , really would like every one of those jobs back from the paperless immigrants .
And that 's why this national id thing - which even a liberal-leaner like me is against - is likely to fly in this climate .
Health care plans are hardly a factor here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article says nothing about this proposal being in consideration of the nation's new health care plan.
What's the logic that it would be?
It makes sense in connection with immigration control and jobs.
But the liberals don't care much if illegal immigrants get health care - which most of them could get under their home countries' national plans anyhow (Mexico has one), so it's not what they come here for.
And the tea partiers don't think the trade off between a strong national id and freedom is worth it, even to help keep the immigrants out.News flash.
Unemployment is high.
A kennel in Snohomish just posted a Craigslist ad for a minimum-wage part-time dogshit-shoveler, and got &gt; 250 resumes in response.
People really, really would like every one of those jobs back from the paperless immigrants.
And that's why this national id thing - which even a liberal-leaner like me is against - is likely to fly in this climate.
Health care plans are hardly a factor here.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31594662</id>
	<title>National ID helps citizens, not government</title>
	<author>goodmanj</author>
	<datestamp>1269374280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's a short list of authentication problems which we rely on government-issued ID to solve:</p><p>Immigration<br>Tax recordkeeping<br>Driver's licensing<br>Alcohol/tobacco age verification<br>Workplace security<br>Credit cards<br>Banking security<br>Airline security<br>Criminal recordkeeping<br>Terror watchlists<br>Government benefits (unemployment assistance, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, etc)</p><p>If the concern is that a national ID will allow the government to monitor me, it's far, far too late for that.  Government already has access to all this information.  Before 9/11, all it took to get full access was a judge's okay: now even that roadblock is gone.</p><p>The "jackbooted thugs" already have full access, and gain nothing from a national ID: the only people it helps are citizens, businesses, and non-jackbooted government agencies.</p><p>I am currently carrying at least a dozen different objects  whose sole purpose is to tell someone who I am, ranging from my driver's license to my supermarket customer loyalty card.  The businesses and government agencies I deal with spend billions, probably trillions, each year dealing with authentication and identity problems.</p><p>The government has a unique ability to be a final trusted arbiter for authentication.  A National ID card doesn't have to be a terrifying dossier containing everything everyone knows about you -- name, fingerprints, political party, criminal record, shopping habits -- all it has to do is verify your identity to anyone who asks.</p><p>"Is the person standing in front of me actually John Smith?"  Yes or no.</p><p>Any info *about* me, ranging from my date of birth to how many cans of Diet Coke I buy a week,  should be kept on a company or government agency's own servers.  The national ID would provide identity verification of everyone to anyone, and nothing else.</p><p>As for how to implement it, let's put it this way. Every day, I and hundreds of thousands of other people use a more secure authentication system to get access to the World of Warcraft than is used to buy a handgun or drive a two-ton vehicle at lethal speeds on the highway.  Two-factor authentication isn't perfect, but it's a damn sight better than our current system of forgeable cards and</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's a short list of authentication problems which we rely on government-issued ID to solve : ImmigrationTax recordkeepingDriver 's licensingAlcohol/tobacco age verificationWorkplace securityCredit cardsBanking securityAirline securityCriminal recordkeepingTerror watchlistsGovernment benefits ( unemployment assistance , medicare , medicaid , food stamps , etc ) If the concern is that a national ID will allow the government to monitor me , it 's far , far too late for that .
Government already has access to all this information .
Before 9/11 , all it took to get full access was a judge 's okay : now even that roadblock is gone.The " jackbooted thugs " already have full access , and gain nothing from a national ID : the only people it helps are citizens , businesses , and non-jackbooted government agencies.I am currently carrying at least a dozen different objects whose sole purpose is to tell someone who I am , ranging from my driver 's license to my supermarket customer loyalty card .
The businesses and government agencies I deal with spend billions , probably trillions , each year dealing with authentication and identity problems.The government has a unique ability to be a final trusted arbiter for authentication .
A National ID card does n't have to be a terrifying dossier containing everything everyone knows about you -- name , fingerprints , political party , criminal record , shopping habits -- all it has to do is verify your identity to anyone who asks .
" Is the person standing in front of me actually John Smith ?
" Yes or no.Any info * about * me , ranging from my date of birth to how many cans of Diet Coke I buy a week , should be kept on a company or government agency 's own servers .
The national ID would provide identity verification of everyone to anyone , and nothing else.As for how to implement it , let 's put it this way .
Every day , I and hundreds of thousands of other people use a more secure authentication system to get access to the World of Warcraft than is used to buy a handgun or drive a two-ton vehicle at lethal speeds on the highway .
Two-factor authentication is n't perfect , but it 's a damn sight better than our current system of forgeable cards and</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's a short list of authentication problems which we rely on government-issued ID to solve:ImmigrationTax recordkeepingDriver's licensingAlcohol/tobacco age verificationWorkplace securityCredit cardsBanking securityAirline securityCriminal recordkeepingTerror watchlistsGovernment benefits (unemployment assistance, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, etc)If the concern is that a national ID will allow the government to monitor me, it's far, far too late for that.
Government already has access to all this information.
Before 9/11, all it took to get full access was a judge's okay: now even that roadblock is gone.The "jackbooted thugs" already have full access, and gain nothing from a national ID: the only people it helps are citizens, businesses, and non-jackbooted government agencies.I am currently carrying at least a dozen different objects  whose sole purpose is to tell someone who I am, ranging from my driver's license to my supermarket customer loyalty card.
The businesses and government agencies I deal with spend billions, probably trillions, each year dealing with authentication and identity problems.The government has a unique ability to be a final trusted arbiter for authentication.
A National ID card doesn't have to be a terrifying dossier containing everything everyone knows about you -- name, fingerprints, political party, criminal record, shopping habits -- all it has to do is verify your identity to anyone who asks.
"Is the person standing in front of me actually John Smith?
"  Yes or no.Any info *about* me, ranging from my date of birth to how many cans of Diet Coke I buy a week,  should be kept on a company or government agency's own servers.
The national ID would provide identity verification of everyone to anyone, and nothing else.As for how to implement it, let's put it this way.
Every day, I and hundreds of thousands of other people use a more secure authentication system to get access to the World of Warcraft than is used to buy a handgun or drive a two-ton vehicle at lethal speeds on the highway.
Two-factor authentication isn't perfect, but it's a damn sight better than our current system of forgeable cards and</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591036</id>
	<title>Fraud proof</title>
	<author>shadowbearer</author>
	<datestamp>1269346500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; That's the funniest thing I've read today.</p><p>
&nbsp; You know what is really, really shameful?</p><p>
&nbsp; That not only are our elected representatives too ignorant, for the most part, to understand why this is a stupid idea; they are so arrogant that they won't even seek out opinions from the people who work in the industry, and know that there is not, and never will be, any such thing as a "unhackable" ID.</p><p>
&nbsp; It's been said before, in many forms, by many people, and I've said it on this site more than once in the past, but I'll say it again (refined it since the last time)</p><p>
&nbsp; No matter how smart you are, no matter how well you implement a piece of technology, you will always be defeated, if not by another human out of the seven billion available, then by teams of people working together."  - old form was "No matter how smart you are, there is always somebody smarter."</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I can't and won't claim credit for it, but it should be a basic natural law of sentience, dammit.</p><p>SB</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>  That 's the funniest thing I 've read today .
  You know what is really , really shameful ?
  That not only are our elected representatives too ignorant , for the most part , to understand why this is a stupid idea ; they are so arrogant that they wo n't even seek out opinions from the people who work in the industry , and know that there is not , and never will be , any such thing as a " unhackable " ID .
  It 's been said before , in many forms , by many people , and I 've said it on this site more than once in the past , but I 'll say it again ( refined it since the last time )   No matter how smart you are , no matter how well you implement a piece of technology , you will always be defeated , if not by another human out of the seven billion available , then by teams of people working together .
" - old form was " No matter how smart you are , there is always somebody smarter .
"     I ca n't and wo n't claim credit for it , but it should be a basic natural law of sentience , dammit.SB</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
  That's the funniest thing I've read today.
  You know what is really, really shameful?
  That not only are our elected representatives too ignorant, for the most part, to understand why this is a stupid idea; they are so arrogant that they won't even seek out opinions from the people who work in the industry, and know that there is not, and never will be, any such thing as a "unhackable" ID.
  It's been said before, in many forms, by many people, and I've said it on this site more than once in the past, but I'll say it again (refined it since the last time)
  No matter how smart you are, no matter how well you implement a piece of technology, you will always be defeated, if not by another human out of the seven billion available, then by teams of people working together.
"  - old form was "No matter how smart you are, there is always somebody smarter.
"
    I can't and won't claim credit for it, but it should be a basic natural law of sentience, dammit.SB</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591272</id>
	<title>"no surprise"?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269347460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No surprise they're considering this given the current social and political climate, maybe.  And perhaps the healthcare bill looks like an expedient motivator for it.  I can't see the argument that the heathcare bill is responsible for ID cards, though.  The UK has had a functional National Health Service for ages (the bill originally came into force in 1948) and hasn't needed ID cards to facilitate it.  I understand that the new US healthcare proposals are substantially different but even so, surely private medical insurance has successfully been managed without ID cards for years - you still need to know who you're treating, why can't similar techniques work?  I'm skeptical of the link here<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No surprise they 're considering this given the current social and political climate , maybe .
And perhaps the healthcare bill looks like an expedient motivator for it .
I ca n't see the argument that the heathcare bill is responsible for ID cards , though .
The UK has had a functional National Health Service for ages ( the bill originally came into force in 1948 ) and has n't needed ID cards to facilitate it .
I understand that the new US healthcare proposals are substantially different but even so , surely private medical insurance has successfully been managed without ID cards for years - you still need to know who you 're treating , why ca n't similar techniques work ?
I 'm skeptical of the link here .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No surprise they're considering this given the current social and political climate, maybe.
And perhaps the healthcare bill looks like an expedient motivator for it.
I can't see the argument that the heathcare bill is responsible for ID cards, though.
The UK has had a functional National Health Service for ages (the bill originally came into force in 1948) and hasn't needed ID cards to facilitate it.
I understand that the new US healthcare proposals are substantially different but even so, surely private medical insurance has successfully been managed without ID cards for years - you still need to know who you're treating, why can't similar techniques work?
I'm skeptical of the link here ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591616</id>
	<title>Re:How do Republicans support this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269349140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>You can't pander to the fringe and then throw them under the bus when they become inconvenient.</p></div></blockquote><p>Why not?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p><p> <em>Listen</em> to the teabaggers: some of the things they say, sound "classic liberal" (i.e. 18th century liberal, similar to conservative).  But then they support Republicans.  Ergo, they don't actually believe any of the things they say.  And they are enthusiastic to vote for people who will work against the teabagger "platform" (I use that term loosely).  If teabaggers are willing to throw <em>themselves</em> under the bus, why shouldn't anyone else?  It's not like it'll cost them votes.</p><blockquote><div><p>The teabaggers would go ballistic, these are people ready to shoot at the census takers.</p></div></blockquote><p>They most certainly are not ever going to go ballistic on anything.  You are taking them way too seriously.  Elect some Republicans and then you'll see how much teabaggers <em>really</em> hate humungous government: they hate it not at all.  Teabaggers <em>love</em> government and want more of it.  Watch teabaggers' <em>votes</em> (not their words) and you'll see.  I swear to god, I'm not kidding: teabaggers are just Republicans.  They are no more against big invasive intrusive government than FDR and LBJ were.</p><p>The only thing teabaggers hate, are Democrats.  That is <em>all</em>.  It's not an ideological thing or a policy disagreement.  It's about a letter next to candidates' names.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You ca n't pander to the fringe and then throw them under the bus when they become inconvenient.Why not ?
: - ) Listen to the teabaggers : some of the things they say , sound " classic liberal " ( i.e .
18th century liberal , similar to conservative ) .
But then they support Republicans .
Ergo , they do n't actually believe any of the things they say .
And they are enthusiastic to vote for people who will work against the teabagger " platform " ( I use that term loosely ) .
If teabaggers are willing to throw themselves under the bus , why should n't anyone else ?
It 's not like it 'll cost them votes.The teabaggers would go ballistic , these are people ready to shoot at the census takers.They most certainly are not ever going to go ballistic on anything .
You are taking them way too seriously .
Elect some Republicans and then you 'll see how much teabaggers really hate humungous government : they hate it not at all .
Teabaggers love government and want more of it .
Watch teabaggers ' votes ( not their words ) and you 'll see .
I swear to god , I 'm not kidding : teabaggers are just Republicans .
They are no more against big invasive intrusive government than FDR and LBJ were.The only thing teabaggers hate , are Democrats .
That is all .
It 's not an ideological thing or a policy disagreement .
It 's about a letter next to candidates ' names .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can't pander to the fringe and then throw them under the bus when they become inconvenient.Why not?
:-) Listen to the teabaggers: some of the things they say, sound "classic liberal" (i.e.
18th century liberal, similar to conservative).
But then they support Republicans.
Ergo, they don't actually believe any of the things they say.
And they are enthusiastic to vote for people who will work against the teabagger "platform" (I use that term loosely).
If teabaggers are willing to throw themselves under the bus, why shouldn't anyone else?
It's not like it'll cost them votes.The teabaggers would go ballistic, these are people ready to shoot at the census takers.They most certainly are not ever going to go ballistic on anything.
You are taking them way too seriously.
Elect some Republicans and then you'll see how much teabaggers really hate humungous government: they hate it not at all.
Teabaggers love government and want more of it.
Watch teabaggers' votes (not their words) and you'll see.
I swear to god, I'm not kidding: teabaggers are just Republicans.
They are no more against big invasive intrusive government than FDR and LBJ were.The only thing teabaggers hate, are Democrats.
That is all.
It's not an ideological thing or a policy disagreement.
It's about a letter next to candidates' names.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590642</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_2223220_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31592516
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591030
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_2223220_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31597054
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31593978
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_2223220_21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31594054
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31591006
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_2223220_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590598
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_2223220.31590484
</commentlist>
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