<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_23_1016202</id>
	<title>Tax-Free IT Repairs Proposed For the UK</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1269342120000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>judgecorp writes <i>"Removing tax from computer repairs could have a real impact on the IT industry's carbon footprint, according to a <a href="http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/petition-calls-for-end-to-vat-on-it-repairs-5988">petition of the UK government</a>. Old computer equipment often ends up in landfill, or in <a href="http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/it-departments-urged-to-be-more-suspicious-of-it-disposal-providers-5893">toxic illegal re-cycling centers</a> in developing countries, because users think it is not cost-effective to repair it. Making repairs tax free could be a simple bit of financial engineering to encourage skilled jobs and keep electronics out of the waste stream, says the author of the campaign."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>judgecorp writes " Removing tax from computer repairs could have a real impact on the IT industry 's carbon footprint , according to a petition of the UK government .
Old computer equipment often ends up in landfill , or in toxic illegal re-cycling centers in developing countries , because users think it is not cost-effective to repair it .
Making repairs tax free could be a simple bit of financial engineering to encourage skilled jobs and keep electronics out of the waste stream , says the author of the campaign .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>judgecorp writes "Removing tax from computer repairs could have a real impact on the IT industry's carbon footprint, according to a petition of the UK government.
Old computer equipment often ends up in landfill, or in toxic illegal re-cycling centers in developing countries, because users think it is not cost-effective to repair it.
Making repairs tax free could be a simple bit of financial engineering to encourage skilled jobs and keep electronics out of the waste stream, says the author of the campaign.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581592</id>
	<title>cars too?  Oh wait: scrappage scheme</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269348900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>

Why not apply it to cars, too?  Removing tax from car repairs would make a big difference to the environment (less new cars wasting resources, older cars kept in good condition and polluting less, less stuff going to landfill) and also encourage skilled workers.  <br>
Oh wait.  Last year the UK government brought in the scrappage scheme that incentivised you to scrap your car for up to &pound;2000 off the price of a brand new one, which has led to a huge number of perfectly adequate, working and environmental-impact-ammortised cars getting crushed, and loads of energy wasted in building, shipping and selling new cars - on the grounds that it'd help the economy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not apply it to cars , too ?
Removing tax from car repairs would make a big difference to the environment ( less new cars wasting resources , older cars kept in good condition and polluting less , less stuff going to landfill ) and also encourage skilled workers .
Oh wait .
Last year the UK government brought in the scrappage scheme that incentivised you to scrap your car for up to   2000 off the price of a brand new one , which has led to a huge number of perfectly adequate , working and environmental-impact-ammortised cars getting crushed , and loads of energy wasted in building , shipping and selling new cars - on the grounds that it 'd help the economy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>

Why not apply it to cars, too?
Removing tax from car repairs would make a big difference to the environment (less new cars wasting resources, older cars kept in good condition and polluting less, less stuff going to landfill) and also encourage skilled workers.
Oh wait.
Last year the UK government brought in the scrappage scheme that incentivised you to scrap your car for up to £2000 off the price of a brand new one, which has led to a huge number of perfectly adequate, working and environmental-impact-ammortised cars getting crushed, and loads of energy wasted in building, shipping and selling new cars - on the grounds that it'd help the economy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581496</id>
	<title>"Repair Services"</title>
	<author>LingNoi</author>
	<datestamp>1269347940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does this include scams like PC world's "IT Repair" or "Tune up" service's which costs 15 GBP a month and is basically a virus scan?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does this include scams like PC world 's " IT Repair " or " Tune up " service 's which costs 15 GBP a month and is basically a virus scan ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does this include scams like PC world's "IT Repair" or "Tune up" service's which costs 15 GBP a month and is basically a virus scan?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581618</id>
	<title>Re:"Proposed" doesn't mean what you may think</title>
	<author>bickerdyke</author>
	<datestamp>1269349320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh don't you have to simply love those guys from that island...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh do n't you have to simply love those guys from that island.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh don't you have to simply love those guys from that island...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31583538</id>
	<title>Re:cars too? Oh wait: scrappage scheme</title>
	<author>Vectormatic</author>
	<datestamp>1269358620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>we have the same thing in holland, and it disgusts me..</p><p>The first car to use this subsidy was a 12 year old honda civic, the kind that would have been PERFECT for a single mom / low wage family / recent graduate to drive for years without high costs. I wept inside when i read that news headline, that car could have lived on for a decade fullfilling its purpose, and providing less wealthy people with a good means of transport. Instead it was taken to the crusher.. The stupidity of that case also was, that the market value for that car was well above the 1000 euro subsidy the owners incurred when buying their new fiat panda...</p><p>Any car that still runs reliably (i.e. isnt a technical total loss), should not be allowed to be destroyed, especially if the government then decides to subsidise the purchase of a fricking prius or whatever, which has a much bigger environmental impact</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>we have the same thing in holland , and it disgusts me..The first car to use this subsidy was a 12 year old honda civic , the kind that would have been PERFECT for a single mom / low wage family / recent graduate to drive for years without high costs .
I wept inside when i read that news headline , that car could have lived on for a decade fullfilling its purpose , and providing less wealthy people with a good means of transport .
Instead it was taken to the crusher.. The stupidity of that case also was , that the market value for that car was well above the 1000 euro subsidy the owners incurred when buying their new fiat panda...Any car that still runs reliably ( i.e .
isnt a technical total loss ) , should not be allowed to be destroyed , especially if the government then decides to subsidise the purchase of a fricking prius or whatever , which has a much bigger environmental impact</tokentext>
<sentencetext>we have the same thing in holland, and it disgusts me..The first car to use this subsidy was a 12 year old honda civic, the kind that would have been PERFECT for a single mom / low wage family / recent graduate to drive for years without high costs.
I wept inside when i read that news headline, that car could have lived on for a decade fullfilling its purpose, and providing less wealthy people with a good means of transport.
Instead it was taken to the crusher.. The stupidity of that case also was, that the market value for that car was well above the 1000 euro subsidy the owners incurred when buying their new fiat panda...Any car that still runs reliably (i.e.
isnt a technical total loss), should not be allowed to be destroyed, especially if the government then decides to subsidise the purchase of a fricking prius or whatever, which has a much bigger environmental impact</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581592</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581298</id>
	<title>Abused</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269345780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oh how this could be abused to include TVs and VCRs and the whatnot. Abused in a good way that is.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh how this could be abused to include TVs and VCRs and the whatnot .
Abused in a good way that is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh how this could be abused to include TVs and VCRs and the whatnot.
Abused in a good way that is.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581336</id>
	<title>EU VAT rules will make this hard</title>
	<author>DamonHD</author>
	<datestamp>1269346260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The EU VAT rules AFAIK are going to nobble attempts to lower existing VAT rates for a good or service (never mind the Treasury hanging grimly on to every penny at the moment), otherwise, way ahead of this is the queue is fixing the egregious higher VAT rates on building repairs than new build.</p><p>Rgds</p><p>Damon</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The EU VAT rules AFAIK are going to nobble attempts to lower existing VAT rates for a good or service ( never mind the Treasury hanging grimly on to every penny at the moment ) , otherwise , way ahead of this is the queue is fixing the egregious higher VAT rates on building repairs than new build.RgdsDamon</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The EU VAT rules AFAIK are going to nobble attempts to lower existing VAT rates for a good or service (never mind the Treasury hanging grimly on to every penny at the moment), otherwise, way ahead of this is the queue is fixing the egregious higher VAT rates on building repairs than new build.RgdsDamon</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581602</id>
	<title>Old parts cost more</title>
	<author>Pugwash69</author>
	<datestamp>1269349080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I decided to buy an old refurbished server last month, except the RAM I needed is so rare now it costs 4 times as much as the server. If I wanted to fit a graphics card, I'd have to pay over-the-odds to get one suitable.

People replace old PC's when they break because new ones are cheaper and faster.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I decided to buy an old refurbished server last month , except the RAM I needed is so rare now it costs 4 times as much as the server .
If I wanted to fit a graphics card , I 'd have to pay over-the-odds to get one suitable .
People replace old PC 's when they break because new ones are cheaper and faster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I decided to buy an old refurbished server last month, except the RAM I needed is so rare now it costs 4 times as much as the server.
If I wanted to fit a graphics card, I'd have to pay over-the-odds to get one suitable.
People replace old PC's when they break because new ones are cheaper and faster.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31584734</id>
	<title>Re:"Proposed" doesn't mean what you may think</title>
	<author>elrous0</author>
	<datestamp>1269363540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In all fairness to the second proposal, Darwin has never shown *me* any form of respect--so why should I reciprocate? Of course he has been dead for some time, but a lot of people use that excuse then, don't they?</htmltext>
<tokenext>In all fairness to the second proposal , Darwin has never shown * me * any form of respect--so why should I reciprocate ?
Of course he has been dead for some time , but a lot of people use that excuse then , do n't they ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In all fairness to the second proposal, Darwin has never shown *me* any form of respect--so why should I reciprocate?
Of course he has been dead for some time, but a lot of people use that excuse then, don't they?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582168</id>
	<title>Stop old technology</title>
	<author>Singularity42</author>
	<datestamp>1269352800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's worse than abortion.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's worse than abortion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's worse than abortion.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330</id>
	<title>But it isn't cost effective!</title>
	<author>jawtheshark</author>
	<datestamp>1269346200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look, I'm an avid dumpster diver and the only reason I do it, is because I get gear for free and it's fun.  However, if you calculate in my time?   No, not economic.  That 2400+ Athlon XP with 1GB RAM I gave to a coworkers daughter?  Cleaning it, assembling good parts from different cadavers, installing Ubuntu and "ready" it for normal usage[1]... This took hours... At my "work" rate, this computer is more expensive than a mid-range new machine which includes real warranty.  Now, I *like* doing this and I don't ask a dime if I give away "recovered" machines, but this is in no way economical in the real sense of the word.</p><p>Also, if they just talk about "replacing" parts... That's good for RAM or a power supply.  Still, you need some time to diagnose the problem which easily exceeds the cost of the parts.  Heck if the hard disk fails, you're in a whole crapload of trouble.  You lost your OS, your data and most likely the recovery partitions.  You ain't getting a working system quickly that way.  A dead harddisk is economically the same as a "total loss" for a computer, if you consider the working hours needed to repair it.  With cheap netbook and nettop machines, which are most likely better than your older system (even though the Atom is really a weak chip as I can tell from my own experience), comparatively repairs are expensive.</p><p>[1] Make sure all media plays, make sure Flash works, make sure Java works, make sure that OpenOffice saves to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.doc,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.xls etc by default so she doesn't get into confusing problems when she starts to share school works, etc, etc, etc...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , I 'm an avid dumpster diver and the only reason I do it , is because I get gear for free and it 's fun .
However , if you calculate in my time ?
No , not economic .
That 2400 + Athlon XP with 1GB RAM I gave to a coworkers daughter ?
Cleaning it , assembling good parts from different cadavers , installing Ubuntu and " ready " it for normal usage [ 1 ] ... This took hours... At my " work " rate , this computer is more expensive than a mid-range new machine which includes real warranty .
Now , I * like * doing this and I do n't ask a dime if I give away " recovered " machines , but this is in no way economical in the real sense of the word.Also , if they just talk about " replacing " parts... That 's good for RAM or a power supply .
Still , you need some time to diagnose the problem which easily exceeds the cost of the parts .
Heck if the hard disk fails , you 're in a whole crapload of trouble .
You lost your OS , your data and most likely the recovery partitions .
You ai n't getting a working system quickly that way .
A dead harddisk is economically the same as a " total loss " for a computer , if you consider the working hours needed to repair it .
With cheap netbook and nettop machines , which are most likely better than your older system ( even though the Atom is really a weak chip as I can tell from my own experience ) , comparatively repairs are expensive .
[ 1 ] Make sure all media plays , make sure Flash works , make sure Java works , make sure that OpenOffice saves to .doc , .xls etc by default so she does n't get into confusing problems when she starts to share school works , etc , etc , etc.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, I'm an avid dumpster diver and the only reason I do it, is because I get gear for free and it's fun.
However, if you calculate in my time?
No, not economic.
That 2400+ Athlon XP with 1GB RAM I gave to a coworkers daughter?
Cleaning it, assembling good parts from different cadavers, installing Ubuntu and "ready" it for normal usage[1]... This took hours... At my "work" rate, this computer is more expensive than a mid-range new machine which includes real warranty.
Now, I *like* doing this and I don't ask a dime if I give away "recovered" machines, but this is in no way economical in the real sense of the word.Also, if they just talk about "replacing" parts... That's good for RAM or a power supply.
Still, you need some time to diagnose the problem which easily exceeds the cost of the parts.
Heck if the hard disk fails, you're in a whole crapload of trouble.
You lost your OS, your data and most likely the recovery partitions.
You ain't getting a working system quickly that way.
A dead harddisk is economically the same as a "total loss" for a computer, if you consider the working hours needed to repair it.
With cheap netbook and nettop machines, which are most likely better than your older system (even though the Atom is really a weak chip as I can tell from my own experience), comparatively repairs are expensive.
[1] Make sure all media plays, make sure Flash works, make sure Java works, make sure that OpenOffice saves to .doc, .xls etc by default so she doesn't get into confusing problems when she starts to share school works, etc, etc, etc...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581650</id>
	<title>Upgrade cycle and junked-filled PCs...</title>
	<author>hughbar</author>
	<datestamp>1269349740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have helped establish two computer drop-ins in the east end (the poor bit) of London using 'old' computers re-installed with Ubuntu (that's the one every seemed to like). In both cases the computer are often over five years old, but for browsing, a little bit of office work or homework and some games, they do just fine. One of the drop-ins has been problem free for two years (though I shouldn't say that aloud, should I?)
<br> <br>
My neighbours change computers because they see the adverts on TV, because versions of Windows change, requiring more hardware and (unnecessarily) because they fill their systems with junk and malware by clicking on everything (oh my computer is really slow!). Norton doesn't help the 'user experience' either.
<br> <br>
But, for example, they confuse 'slow' with 'broken' or 'old' and buy into the slick consumer dream. PC world with it's huge variety of sharp practices doesn't help either, because it's in their interest to encourage this particular confusion.
<br> <br>
So I doubt that this will help, assuming that they do it (they haven't done anything on the petition site before, shame, we would have liked to see the underpants too).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have helped establish two computer drop-ins in the east end ( the poor bit ) of London using 'old ' computers re-installed with Ubuntu ( that 's the one every seemed to like ) .
In both cases the computer are often over five years old , but for browsing , a little bit of office work or homework and some games , they do just fine .
One of the drop-ins has been problem free for two years ( though I should n't say that aloud , should I ?
) My neighbours change computers because they see the adverts on TV , because versions of Windows change , requiring more hardware and ( unnecessarily ) because they fill their systems with junk and malware by clicking on everything ( oh my computer is really slow ! ) .
Norton does n't help the 'user experience ' either .
But , for example , they confuse 'slow ' with 'broken ' or 'old ' and buy into the slick consumer dream .
PC world with it 's huge variety of sharp practices does n't help either , because it 's in their interest to encourage this particular confusion .
So I doubt that this will help , assuming that they do it ( they have n't done anything on the petition site before , shame , we would have liked to see the underpants too ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have helped establish two computer drop-ins in the east end (the poor bit) of London using 'old' computers re-installed with Ubuntu (that's the one every seemed to like).
In both cases the computer are often over five years old, but for browsing, a little bit of office work or homework and some games, they do just fine.
One of the drop-ins has been problem free for two years (though I shouldn't say that aloud, should I?
)
 
My neighbours change computers because they see the adverts on TV, because versions of Windows change, requiring more hardware and (unnecessarily) because they fill their systems with junk and malware by clicking on everything (oh my computer is really slow!).
Norton doesn't help the 'user experience' either.
But, for example, they confuse 'slow' with 'broken' or 'old' and buy into the slick consumer dream.
PC world with it's huge variety of sharp practices doesn't help either, because it's in their interest to encourage this particular confusion.
So I doubt that this will help, assuming that they do it (they haven't done anything on the petition site before, shame, we would have liked to see the underpants too).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31645486</id>
	<title>New and shiny</title>
	<author>Sunnz</author>
	<datestamp>1269716400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ultimately though it is just hard to resist to buy new hardware when you can afford it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ultimately though it is just hard to resist to buy new hardware when you can afford it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ultimately though it is just hard to resist to buy new hardware when you can afford it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31588750</id>
	<title>Re:But it isn't cost effective!</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1269336180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dumpster diving is one thing, but what about an otherwise decent desktop machine with bad RAM before it goes to the dumpster. It just doesn't take all that long to swap a few sticks and put it back in service. Installing Linux takes a little while, but most of that time is unattended (you should be doing something else during that part, not charging work rates to sit and watch).</p><p>Sure, it's not worth it except as a hobby if you're grabbing a CPU here, case there, etc etc, but that's not what they're talking about.</p><p>In general, there's a lot of nonsense talk about green this and that for consumer electronics and appliances when, in fact, things designed to last with easily replaceable (and even better, upgradable) parts are much greener. I know of several cubic feet of landfill full of lead that wouldn't be there if not for "special" parts you can't even order for less than the cost of a new VCR (or at all).</p><p>As for PCs, my old one did NOT go in the landfill, it just got a big HD and is now my backup server.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dumpster diving is one thing , but what about an otherwise decent desktop machine with bad RAM before it goes to the dumpster .
It just does n't take all that long to swap a few sticks and put it back in service .
Installing Linux takes a little while , but most of that time is unattended ( you should be doing something else during that part , not charging work rates to sit and watch ) .Sure , it 's not worth it except as a hobby if you 're grabbing a CPU here , case there , etc etc , but that 's not what they 're talking about.In general , there 's a lot of nonsense talk about green this and that for consumer electronics and appliances when , in fact , things designed to last with easily replaceable ( and even better , upgradable ) parts are much greener .
I know of several cubic feet of landfill full of lead that would n't be there if not for " special " parts you ca n't even order for less than the cost of a new VCR ( or at all ) .As for PCs , my old one did NOT go in the landfill , it just got a big HD and is now my backup server .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dumpster diving is one thing, but what about an otherwise decent desktop machine with bad RAM before it goes to the dumpster.
It just doesn't take all that long to swap a few sticks and put it back in service.
Installing Linux takes a little while, but most of that time is unattended (you should be doing something else during that part, not charging work rates to sit and watch).Sure, it's not worth it except as a hobby if you're grabbing a CPU here, case there, etc etc, but that's not what they're talking about.In general, there's a lot of nonsense talk about green this and that for consumer electronics and appliances when, in fact, things designed to last with easily replaceable (and even better, upgradable) parts are much greener.
I know of several cubic feet of landfill full of lead that wouldn't be there if not for "special" parts you can't even order for less than the cost of a new VCR (or at all).As for PCs, my old one did NOT go in the landfill, it just got a big HD and is now my backup server.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582476</id>
	<title>Re:Old parts cost more</title>
	<author>jawtheshark</author>
	<datestamp>1269354420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>the RAM I needed is so rare now it costs 4 times as much as the server.</p></div></blockquote><p>Have you tried <a href="http://www.kahlon.com/" title="kahlon.com" rel="nofollow">Kahlon</a> [kahlon.com]? (Not affiliated, just a happy customer)  A few years ago I had a multiprocessor system that required Registred ECC RAM.  It could hold a total of 4GB RAM, but only had 1GB.  When I wanted to upgrade the system to 4GB (so I needed 3x1GB), the stores in Europe asked around 300&euro; per stick.  At Kahlon, I got three sticks of that price even after the horribly high import taxes.  Now, I just checked and I could get those same RAM sticks for around 40$ each.</p><p>I do admit it was a pain to get them to trust me because they didn't take a credit card from my country (which is very small).  I called them, said I would do a wire transfer and send them proof.  A bit of a hassle, but it worked and I had my RAM.</p><p>I also used them ever longer ago when I needed 256Meg SIMMS (not DIMMS) for an old Pentium Pro 200 System.</p><p>It's the first place I go and look if I need "weird RAM".</p><p>I should check their RD-Ram prices.. I have a nice P-IV with 512Meg RAM with RD-Ram.  Upping it to 1GB or more might make it desktop-usable again.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the RAM I needed is so rare now it costs 4 times as much as the server.Have you tried Kahlon [ kahlon.com ] ?
( Not affiliated , just a happy customer ) A few years ago I had a multiprocessor system that required Registred ECC RAM .
It could hold a total of 4GB RAM , but only had 1GB .
When I wanted to upgrade the system to 4GB ( so I needed 3x1GB ) , the stores in Europe asked around 300    per stick .
At Kahlon , I got three sticks of that price even after the horribly high import taxes .
Now , I just checked and I could get those same RAM sticks for around 40 $ each.I do admit it was a pain to get them to trust me because they did n't take a credit card from my country ( which is very small ) .
I called them , said I would do a wire transfer and send them proof .
A bit of a hassle , but it worked and I had my RAM.I also used them ever longer ago when I needed 256Meg SIMMS ( not DIMMS ) for an old Pentium Pro 200 System.It 's the first place I go and look if I need " weird RAM " .I should check their RD-Ram prices.. I have a nice P-IV with 512Meg RAM with RD-Ram .
Upping it to 1GB or more might make it desktop-usable again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the RAM I needed is so rare now it costs 4 times as much as the server.Have you tried Kahlon [kahlon.com]?
(Not affiliated, just a happy customer)  A few years ago I had a multiprocessor system that required Registred ECC RAM.
It could hold a total of 4GB RAM, but only had 1GB.
When I wanted to upgrade the system to 4GB (so I needed 3x1GB), the stores in Europe asked around 300€ per stick.
At Kahlon, I got three sticks of that price even after the horribly high import taxes.
Now, I just checked and I could get those same RAM sticks for around 40$ each.I do admit it was a pain to get them to trust me because they didn't take a credit card from my country (which is very small).
I called them, said I would do a wire transfer and send them proof.
A bit of a hassle, but it worked and I had my RAM.I also used them ever longer ago when I needed 256Meg SIMMS (not DIMMS) for an old Pentium Pro 200 System.It's the first place I go and look if I need "weird RAM".I should check their RD-Ram prices.. I have a nice P-IV with 512Meg RAM with RD-Ram.
Upping it to 1GB or more might make it desktop-usable again.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581602</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581376</id>
	<title>Great story, doesn't seem to be true</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269346740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you <a href="http://search.petitions.number10.gov.uk/kbroker/number10/petitions/search.lsim?sb=1&amp;qt=Repair&amp;go=Go&amp;sr=0&amp;nh=10&amp;cs=&amp;sc=number10&amp;oq=Repairs&amp;ha=1157&amp;mt=0" title="number10.gov.uk">search the Number 10 website for 'Repair'</a> [number10.gov.uk], it does not show up (prove me wrong, someone!)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you search the Number 10 website for 'Repair ' [ number10.gov.uk ] , it does not show up ( prove me wrong , someone !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you search the Number 10 website for 'Repair' [number10.gov.uk], it does not show up (prove me wrong, someone!
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581402</id>
	<title>(-1, Troll) Terminology like</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269346980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Financial engineering", "social engineering" is just the lazy man's way of thinking about "financial incentives" and "confidence trickery"/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Financial engineering " , " social engineering " is just the lazy man 's way of thinking about " financial incentives " and " confidence trickery " /</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Financial engineering", "social engineering" is just the lazy man's way of thinking about "financial incentives" and "confidence trickery"/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581416</id>
	<title>"Proposed" doesn't mean what you may think</title>
	<author>jimicus</author>
	<datestamp>1269347160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In this context, "Proposed" means someone's set up an online petition to ask the government to do something.</p><p>Seeing as there's a government-sponsored website where you can set up petitions asking for literally anything, this doesn't really mean a great deal.  Some petitions which have been submitted include:</p><p><a href="http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/underpants/" title="number10.gov.uk">Force TV newsreaders to wear their underpants on their head.</a> [number10.gov.uk]</p><p><a href="http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/TrashDarwinism/" title="number10.gov.uk">Stop treating Charles Darwin with any form of respect</a> [number10.gov.uk]</p><p><a href="http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Save-the-kidz/" title="number10.gov.uk">Introduce suitability tests for all supporters of Tottenham Hotspur who want to work with children</a> [number10.gov.uk]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In this context , " Proposed " means someone 's set up an online petition to ask the government to do something.Seeing as there 's a government-sponsored website where you can set up petitions asking for literally anything , this does n't really mean a great deal .
Some petitions which have been submitted include : Force TV newsreaders to wear their underpants on their head .
[ number10.gov.uk ] Stop treating Charles Darwin with any form of respect [ number10.gov.uk ] Introduce suitability tests for all supporters of Tottenham Hotspur who want to work with children [ number10.gov.uk ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In this context, "Proposed" means someone's set up an online petition to ask the government to do something.Seeing as there's a government-sponsored website where you can set up petitions asking for literally anything, this doesn't really mean a great deal.
Some petitions which have been submitted include:Force TV newsreaders to wear their underpants on their head.
[number10.gov.uk]Stop treating Charles Darwin with any form of respect [number10.gov.uk]Introduce suitability tests for all supporters of Tottenham Hotspur who want to work with children [number10.gov.uk]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581342</id>
	<title>Sorry but</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269346380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't think so. The reason people don't get their PCs serviced when they get infested with cybervermin is that they see the overall cost as too high an investment when they could just go buy a new system that will work 100\% guaranteed as opposed to playing whack-a-mole with screwy software. Unless they're in the know that a wipe and reinstall can re-create that like new PC experience pain-free, then people will most likely always go for something new as opposed to shelling out more and more to fix their old systems. A tax break isn't going to change that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think so .
The reason people do n't get their PCs serviced when they get infested with cybervermin is that they see the overall cost as too high an investment when they could just go buy a new system that will work 100 \ % guaranteed as opposed to playing whack-a-mole with screwy software .
Unless they 're in the know that a wipe and reinstall can re-create that like new PC experience pain-free , then people will most likely always go for something new as opposed to shelling out more and more to fix their old systems .
A tax break is n't going to change that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think so.
The reason people don't get their PCs serviced when they get infested with cybervermin is that they see the overall cost as too high an investment when they could just go buy a new system that will work 100\% guaranteed as opposed to playing whack-a-mole with screwy software.
Unless they're in the know that a wipe and reinstall can re-create that like new PC experience pain-free, then people will most likely always go for something new as opposed to shelling out more and more to fix their old systems.
A tax break isn't going to change that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31587574</id>
	<title>Re:But it isn't cost effective!</title>
	<author>Kitkoan</author>
	<datestamp>1269373620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Look, I'm an avid dumpster diver and the only reason I do it, is because I get gear for free and it's fun.  However, if you calculate in my time?   No, not economic.  That 2400+ Athlon XP with 1GB RAM I gave to a coworkers daughter?  Cleaning it, assembling good parts from different cadavers, installing Ubuntu and "ready" it for normal usage[1]... This took hours... At my "work" rate, this computer is more expensive than a mid-range new machine which includes real warranty.  Now, I *like* doing this and I don't ask a dime if I give away "recovered" machines, but this is in no way economical in the real sense of the word.</p><p>Also, if they just talk about "replacing" parts... That's good for RAM or a power supply.  Still, you need some time to diagnose the problem which easily exceeds the cost of the parts.  Heck if the hard disk fails, you're in a whole crapload of trouble.  You lost your OS, your data and most likely the recovery partitions.  You ain't getting a working system quickly that way.  A dead harddisk is economically the same as a "total loss" for a computer, if you consider the working hours needed to repair it.  With cheap netbook and nettop machines, which are most likely better than your older system (even though the Atom is really a weak chip as I can tell from my own experience), comparatively repairs are expensive.</p><p>[1] Make sure all media plays, make sure Flash works, make sure Java works, make sure that OpenOffice saves to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.doc,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.xls etc by default so she doesn't get into confusing problems when she starts to share school works, etc, etc, etc...</p></div><p>The cost in building the machine isn't economical as you've pointed out, but what about the learning you get from it? Doing this gives you in some respects the ultimate 'test lab' of parts that didn't cost out of pocket money that you can use to build computers, and you can pull apart and rebuild computers from scratch and have a LOT of experience doing it and no doubt feel very comfortable doing it. This is where you stand over many computer users/geeks. This would also make you quite resourceful and capable on a software level since you can also handle software drivers and compatibility issues, making sure things work and don't just do the job by the book. Many don't mind tampering with software because worst case you have to format the HD, but hardware doesn't have such a 'restart' switch. And if you are aiming for a job that involves computer (sales, repairs, ect...) you have quite a nice skill set that would help you. Cost isn't just money.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , I 'm an avid dumpster diver and the only reason I do it , is because I get gear for free and it 's fun .
However , if you calculate in my time ?
No , not economic .
That 2400 + Athlon XP with 1GB RAM I gave to a coworkers daughter ?
Cleaning it , assembling good parts from different cadavers , installing Ubuntu and " ready " it for normal usage [ 1 ] ... This took hours... At my " work " rate , this computer is more expensive than a mid-range new machine which includes real warranty .
Now , I * like * doing this and I do n't ask a dime if I give away " recovered " machines , but this is in no way economical in the real sense of the word.Also , if they just talk about " replacing " parts... That 's good for RAM or a power supply .
Still , you need some time to diagnose the problem which easily exceeds the cost of the parts .
Heck if the hard disk fails , you 're in a whole crapload of trouble .
You lost your OS , your data and most likely the recovery partitions .
You ai n't getting a working system quickly that way .
A dead harddisk is economically the same as a " total loss " for a computer , if you consider the working hours needed to repair it .
With cheap netbook and nettop machines , which are most likely better than your older system ( even though the Atom is really a weak chip as I can tell from my own experience ) , comparatively repairs are expensive .
[ 1 ] Make sure all media plays , make sure Flash works , make sure Java works , make sure that OpenOffice saves to .doc , .xls etc by default so she does n't get into confusing problems when she starts to share school works , etc , etc , etc...The cost in building the machine is n't economical as you 've pointed out , but what about the learning you get from it ?
Doing this gives you in some respects the ultimate 'test lab ' of parts that did n't cost out of pocket money that you can use to build computers , and you can pull apart and rebuild computers from scratch and have a LOT of experience doing it and no doubt feel very comfortable doing it .
This is where you stand over many computer users/geeks .
This would also make you quite resourceful and capable on a software level since you can also handle software drivers and compatibility issues , making sure things work and do n't just do the job by the book .
Many do n't mind tampering with software because worst case you have to format the HD , but hardware does n't have such a 'restart ' switch .
And if you are aiming for a job that involves computer ( sales , repairs , ect... ) you have quite a nice skill set that would help you .
Cost is n't just money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, I'm an avid dumpster diver and the only reason I do it, is because I get gear for free and it's fun.
However, if you calculate in my time?
No, not economic.
That 2400+ Athlon XP with 1GB RAM I gave to a coworkers daughter?
Cleaning it, assembling good parts from different cadavers, installing Ubuntu and "ready" it for normal usage[1]... This took hours... At my "work" rate, this computer is more expensive than a mid-range new machine which includes real warranty.
Now, I *like* doing this and I don't ask a dime if I give away "recovered" machines, but this is in no way economical in the real sense of the word.Also, if they just talk about "replacing" parts... That's good for RAM or a power supply.
Still, you need some time to diagnose the problem which easily exceeds the cost of the parts.
Heck if the hard disk fails, you're in a whole crapload of trouble.
You lost your OS, your data and most likely the recovery partitions.
You ain't getting a working system quickly that way.
A dead harddisk is economically the same as a "total loss" for a computer, if you consider the working hours needed to repair it.
With cheap netbook and nettop machines, which are most likely better than your older system (even though the Atom is really a weak chip as I can tell from my own experience), comparatively repairs are expensive.
[1] Make sure all media plays, make sure Flash works, make sure Java works, make sure that OpenOffice saves to .doc, .xls etc by default so she doesn't get into confusing problems when she starts to share school works, etc, etc, etc...The cost in building the machine isn't economical as you've pointed out, but what about the learning you get from it?
Doing this gives you in some respects the ultimate 'test lab' of parts that didn't cost out of pocket money that you can use to build computers, and you can pull apart and rebuild computers from scratch and have a LOT of experience doing it and no doubt feel very comfortable doing it.
This is where you stand over many computer users/geeks.
This would also make you quite resourceful and capable on a software level since you can also handle software drivers and compatibility issues, making sure things work and don't just do the job by the book.
Many don't mind tampering with software because worst case you have to format the HD, but hardware doesn't have such a 'restart' switch.
And if you are aiming for a job that involves computer (sales, repairs, ect...) you have quite a nice skill set that would help you.
Cost isn't just money.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581668</id>
	<title>Re:Abused</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269349980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While new technology does require less energy than older technology, the energy consumption during use is typically a tiny fraction of the total energy consumption of a product. Electronics have a high upfront manufacturing energy consumption (and other environmental impact due to the rare materials which are used in a highly purified form). The environmentally prudent thing to do is to buy long-lasting hardware (in terms of both time-to-failure and usefulness) and actually use it as long as you can. Unfortunately this often does not make fiscal sense, due to taxation rules or quickly changing business requirements. Junking working hardware to replace it with more "environmentally friendly" hardware however is often counterproductive (and not just in the IT sector either.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While new technology does require less energy than older technology , the energy consumption during use is typically a tiny fraction of the total energy consumption of a product .
Electronics have a high upfront manufacturing energy consumption ( and other environmental impact due to the rare materials which are used in a highly purified form ) .
The environmentally prudent thing to do is to buy long-lasting hardware ( in terms of both time-to-failure and usefulness ) and actually use it as long as you can .
Unfortunately this often does not make fiscal sense , due to taxation rules or quickly changing business requirements .
Junking working hardware to replace it with more " environmentally friendly " hardware however is often counterproductive ( and not just in the IT sector either .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While new technology does require less energy than older technology, the energy consumption during use is typically a tiny fraction of the total energy consumption of a product.
Electronics have a high upfront manufacturing energy consumption (and other environmental impact due to the rare materials which are used in a highly purified form).
The environmentally prudent thing to do is to buy long-lasting hardware (in terms of both time-to-failure and usefulness) and actually use it as long as you can.
Unfortunately this often does not make fiscal sense, due to taxation rules or quickly changing business requirements.
Junking working hardware to replace it with more "environmentally friendly" hardware however is often counterproductive (and not just in the IT sector either.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581466</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581962</id>
	<title>Oh okay</title>
	<author>SmallFurryCreature</author>
	<datestamp>1269351600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Netbook, 300 euro's new. Broke the screen. Official repair costs, 300 euro's. Did it myself by getting a screen from ebay for 30, 15 minutes labor. So that would be what 50 euro and you have kept a netbook alive for a 1-2 more years at least.
</p><p>But I don't think just cutting taxes is going to do it. The whole repair sector is far to expensive. You would need laws that allow repair centers to operate near cost, not at "lets charge them so much that nobody is going to repair".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Netbook , 300 euro 's new .
Broke the screen .
Official repair costs , 300 euro 's .
Did it myself by getting a screen from ebay for 30 , 15 minutes labor .
So that would be what 50 euro and you have kept a netbook alive for a 1-2 more years at least .
But I do n't think just cutting taxes is going to do it .
The whole repair sector is far to expensive .
You would need laws that allow repair centers to operate near cost , not at " lets charge them so much that nobody is going to repair " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Netbook, 300 euro's new.
Broke the screen.
Official repair costs, 300 euro's.
Did it myself by getting a screen from ebay for 30, 15 minutes labor.
So that would be what 50 euro and you have kept a netbook alive for a 1-2 more years at least.
But I don't think just cutting taxes is going to do it.
The whole repair sector is far to expensive.
You would need laws that allow repair centers to operate near cost, not at "lets charge them so much that nobody is going to repair".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582058</id>
	<title>Re:Abused</title>
	<author>JohnBailey</author>
	<datestamp>1269352320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think you need a different word. Extended perhaps.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you need a different word .
Extended perhaps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you need a different word.
Extended perhaps.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581298</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581864</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry but</title>
	<author>Caged</author>
	<datestamp>1269351180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree, having a tax break on repairing old PC's wont make one iota of difference when the labour incurred in performing even the standard virus removal/updates/windows repair totals about a quarter the cost of a new netbook or atom-based brand name PC.</p><p>In my experience I would say in 70\% of cases if a major hardware component for a job &gt;2years old - eg mainboard - then its' a total loss leaving the technical bay with a dead PC that will never be claimed (a nominal fee owing for inspecting the machine) but can't be recycled/resold as it still legally belongs to a customer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree , having a tax break on repairing old PC 's wont make one iota of difference when the labour incurred in performing even the standard virus removal/updates/windows repair totals about a quarter the cost of a new netbook or atom-based brand name PC.In my experience I would say in 70 \ % of cases if a major hardware component for a job &gt; 2years old - eg mainboard - then its ' a total loss leaving the technical bay with a dead PC that will never be claimed ( a nominal fee owing for inspecting the machine ) but ca n't be recycled/resold as it still legally belongs to a customer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree, having a tax break on repairing old PC's wont make one iota of difference when the labour incurred in performing even the standard virus removal/updates/windows repair totals about a quarter the cost of a new netbook or atom-based brand name PC.In my experience I would say in 70\% of cases if a major hardware component for a job &gt;2years old - eg mainboard - then its' a total loss leaving the technical bay with a dead PC that will never be claimed (a nominal fee owing for inspecting the machine) but can't be recycled/resold as it still legally belongs to a customer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581342</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581466</id>
	<title>Re:Abused</title>
	<author>BadAnalogyGuy</author>
	<datestamp>1269347640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>New technology is typically smaller, faster, and requires less energy than older technology. The faster we can replace the old stuff, the better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>New technology is typically smaller , faster , and requires less energy than older technology .
The faster we can replace the old stuff , the better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>New technology is typically smaller, faster, and requires less energy than older technology.
The faster we can replace the old stuff, the better.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581298</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31583938</id>
	<title>VAT loophole</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269360300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Interesting loophole they are opening up. Under this idea if I have my pc "repaired" with a new motherboard, processor and memory etc all the parts would then be vat free? Whats the difference between an upgrade and a repair? Almost all loose parts could then be sold as "for repair" and vat free?</p><p>As it is many small one man bands are probably under the &pound;68,000 turnover threshold so don't have to charge vat on their time. Business's claim back the vat so don't pay it now anyway. It would mainly benefit people like pcworld who do lots of basic high priced repairs for their customers.</p><p>Houses now there is a good candidate for tax free repairs. Its ridiculous that repairing an old shack is taxed but building from scratch on a new site is tax free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Interesting loophole they are opening up .
Under this idea if I have my pc " repaired " with a new motherboard , processor and memory etc all the parts would then be vat free ?
Whats the difference between an upgrade and a repair ?
Almost all loose parts could then be sold as " for repair " and vat free ? As it is many small one man bands are probably under the   68,000 turnover threshold so do n't have to charge vat on their time .
Business 's claim back the vat so do n't pay it now anyway .
It would mainly benefit people like pcworld who do lots of basic high priced repairs for their customers.Houses now there is a good candidate for tax free repairs .
Its ridiculous that repairing an old shack is taxed but building from scratch on a new site is tax free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Interesting loophole they are opening up.
Under this idea if I have my pc "repaired" with a new motherboard, processor and memory etc all the parts would then be vat free?
Whats the difference between an upgrade and a repair?
Almost all loose parts could then be sold as "for repair" and vat free?As it is many small one man bands are probably under the £68,000 turnover threshold so don't have to charge vat on their time.
Business's claim back the vat so don't pay it now anyway.
It would mainly benefit people like pcworld who do lots of basic high priced repairs for their customers.Houses now there is a good candidate for tax free repairs.
Its ridiculous that repairing an old shack is taxed but building from scratch on a new site is tax free.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582562</id>
	<title>Re:But it isn't cost effective!</title>
	<author>khallow</author>
	<datestamp>1269354720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Cleaning it, assembling good parts from different cadavers, installing Ubuntu and "ready" it for normal usage[1]... This took hours... At my "work" rate, this computer is more expensive than a mid-range new machine which includes real warranty. Now, I *like* doing this and I don't ask a dime if I give away "recovered" machines, but this is in no way economical in the real sense of the word.</p></div><p>Two things. First, it might be economic for someone with a lot lower work rate. Second, would you have worked longer and gotten paid more, if it wasn't for the computers you were putting together? Work rate doesn't count, if you weren't going to work anyway.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cleaning it , assembling good parts from different cadavers , installing Ubuntu and " ready " it for normal usage [ 1 ] ... This took hours... At my " work " rate , this computer is more expensive than a mid-range new machine which includes real warranty .
Now , I * like * doing this and I do n't ask a dime if I give away " recovered " machines , but this is in no way economical in the real sense of the word.Two things .
First , it might be economic for someone with a lot lower work rate .
Second , would you have worked longer and gotten paid more , if it was n't for the computers you were putting together ?
Work rate does n't count , if you were n't going to work anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cleaning it, assembling good parts from different cadavers, installing Ubuntu and "ready" it for normal usage[1]... This took hours... At my "work" rate, this computer is more expensive than a mid-range new machine which includes real warranty.
Now, I *like* doing this and I don't ask a dime if I give away "recovered" machines, but this is in no way economical in the real sense of the word.Two things.
First, it might be economic for someone with a lot lower work rate.
Second, would you have worked longer and gotten paid more, if it wasn't for the computers you were putting together?
Work rate doesn't count, if you weren't going to work anyway.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581714</id>
	<title>Re:But it isn't cost effective!</title>
	<author>value\_added</author>
	<datestamp>1269350280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with what your basic points, but the final cost using your rate isn't the same as what it would cost for someone else to do it.  Here in California, for example, there's plenty of companies that make their money re-selling old computers on eBay.  Walk into a typical operation and you'll see a large warehouse with pallets upon pallets of computers and peripherals, and a few guys doing repairs.  Picture a Mexican labourer doing things like POST tests and swapping RAM and used hard drives, and you'll get the picture.</p><p>My personal interpretation of "recycling" is that if it can go in the garden, then it should be plowed under.  If it can't, chances are high then it should never have been made in the first place.  I say that to point out that while I deliberately make a (dishonest) exception for computer equipment, I'm both embarrassed and alarmed at the amount and kind of junk this industry generates, an industry in which I enthusiastically participate.</p><p>Eithe way, the entire subject is a complex one that involves everyone all down the supply chain to the customer.  Government initiatives can be good, as are steps taken by the manufacturers.  For my part, I find it difficult resolving simple questions like "Is it better to re-use old (and free) power-inefficient computers, or buy new ones?"  If I can't resolve that, why should I object when the likes of Dell or Microsoft continue to sell and promote the "new shiny" and people want to buy it?</p><p>Over the last few years I've bought a number of Soekris boxes to replace aging PIIIs and P4s that I was using, but I did that mostly for aesthetic reasons.  The trip to the recycling center certainly made me feel good, but it's highly likely that everything went either into a local landfill, or ended up somewhere in a slum in India.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with what your basic points , but the final cost using your rate is n't the same as what it would cost for someone else to do it .
Here in California , for example , there 's plenty of companies that make their money re-selling old computers on eBay .
Walk into a typical operation and you 'll see a large warehouse with pallets upon pallets of computers and peripherals , and a few guys doing repairs .
Picture a Mexican labourer doing things like POST tests and swapping RAM and used hard drives , and you 'll get the picture.My personal interpretation of " recycling " is that if it can go in the garden , then it should be plowed under .
If it ca n't , chances are high then it should never have been made in the first place .
I say that to point out that while I deliberately make a ( dishonest ) exception for computer equipment , I 'm both embarrassed and alarmed at the amount and kind of junk this industry generates , an industry in which I enthusiastically participate.Eithe way , the entire subject is a complex one that involves everyone all down the supply chain to the customer .
Government initiatives can be good , as are steps taken by the manufacturers .
For my part , I find it difficult resolving simple questions like " Is it better to re-use old ( and free ) power-inefficient computers , or buy new ones ?
" If I ca n't resolve that , why should I object when the likes of Dell or Microsoft continue to sell and promote the " new shiny " and people want to buy it ? Over the last few years I 've bought a number of Soekris boxes to replace aging PIIIs and P4s that I was using , but I did that mostly for aesthetic reasons .
The trip to the recycling center certainly made me feel good , but it 's highly likely that everything went either into a local landfill , or ended up somewhere in a slum in India .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with what your basic points, but the final cost using your rate isn't the same as what it would cost for someone else to do it.
Here in California, for example, there's plenty of companies that make their money re-selling old computers on eBay.
Walk into a typical operation and you'll see a large warehouse with pallets upon pallets of computers and peripherals, and a few guys doing repairs.
Picture a Mexican labourer doing things like POST tests and swapping RAM and used hard drives, and you'll get the picture.My personal interpretation of "recycling" is that if it can go in the garden, then it should be plowed under.
If it can't, chances are high then it should never have been made in the first place.
I say that to point out that while I deliberately make a (dishonest) exception for computer equipment, I'm both embarrassed and alarmed at the amount and kind of junk this industry generates, an industry in which I enthusiastically participate.Eithe way, the entire subject is a complex one that involves everyone all down the supply chain to the customer.
Government initiatives can be good, as are steps taken by the manufacturers.
For my part, I find it difficult resolving simple questions like "Is it better to re-use old (and free) power-inefficient computers, or buy new ones?
"  If I can't resolve that, why should I object when the likes of Dell or Microsoft continue to sell and promote the "new shiny" and people want to buy it?Over the last few years I've bought a number of Soekris boxes to replace aging PIIIs and P4s that I was using, but I did that mostly for aesthetic reasons.
The trip to the recycling center certainly made me feel good, but it's highly likely that everything went either into a local landfill, or ended up somewhere in a slum in India.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31584828</id>
	<title>Re:cars too? Oh wait: scrappage scheme</title>
	<author>jawtheshark</author>
	<datestamp>1269363900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Where are my modpoints when I need them?  When I was in last year of University, I bought an 11 year old Audi 80.  One of the best cars I ever had, reliable and no expensive repairs.</p><p>My current car is 10 years old (bought new 02/2000) and I'm not planning to replace it. I estimate it to be worth around 5000&euro;, given it cost 35000&euro; new.  Sacrifying it to any of the programs would be perfectly wasteful.</p><p>Checking on a second-hand car website (AutoScout24), typical asking price seems to be between 10000&euro; and 15000&euro; for similar build/age... That can't be right...  People are out of their mind asking that much for a 10 year old car.</p><p>I actually wondered what kind of car I could get for 1000&euro; or a bit more... Seems that it mostly is 25 year old cars....  A bit longer and they qualify for the "oldtimer" status<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-) </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Where are my modpoints when I need them ?
When I was in last year of University , I bought an 11 year old Audi 80 .
One of the best cars I ever had , reliable and no expensive repairs.My current car is 10 years old ( bought new 02/2000 ) and I 'm not planning to replace it .
I estimate it to be worth around 5000    , given it cost 35000    new .
Sacrifying it to any of the programs would be perfectly wasteful.Checking on a second-hand car website ( AutoScout24 ) , typical asking price seems to be between 10000    and 15000    for similar build/age... That ca n't be right... People are out of their mind asking that much for a 10 year old car.I actually wondered what kind of car I could get for 1000    or a bit more... Seems that it mostly is 25 year old cars.... A bit longer and they qualify for the " oldtimer " status ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where are my modpoints when I need them?
When I was in last year of University, I bought an 11 year old Audi 80.
One of the best cars I ever had, reliable and no expensive repairs.My current car is 10 years old (bought new 02/2000) and I'm not planning to replace it.
I estimate it to be worth around 5000€, given it cost 35000€ new.
Sacrifying it to any of the programs would be perfectly wasteful.Checking on a second-hand car website (AutoScout24), typical asking price seems to be between 10000€ and 15000€ for similar build/age... That can't be right...  People are out of their mind asking that much for a 10 year old car.I actually wondered what kind of car I could get for 1000€ or a bit more... Seems that it mostly is 25 year old cars....  A bit longer and they qualify for the "oldtimer" status ;-) </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31583538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581576</id>
	<title>Re:But it isn't cost effective!</title>
	<author>barista</author>
	<datestamp>1269348720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem I see is "software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster." Try telling people with a P4 why they can't have Windows 7 running Aero and Facebook and Word and Outlook and 'The Twitter' and Yahoo and eBay and MTV and iTunes and antivirus and ZoneAlarm and Bejeweled and... and... they just won't understand. For every program that's running, it causes all the other programs to run a little slower. They'll insist they need to have all those programs running at the same time, yet they'll also complain about how slow their computer is running. Older computers with less drive space, less memory, and slower processors will have a harder time coping with newer software.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem I see is " software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster .
" Try telling people with a P4 why they ca n't have Windows 7 running Aero and Facebook and Word and Outlook and 'The Twitter ' and Yahoo and eBay and MTV and iTunes and antivirus and ZoneAlarm and Bejeweled and... and... they just wo n't understand .
For every program that 's running , it causes all the other programs to run a little slower .
They 'll insist they need to have all those programs running at the same time , yet they 'll also complain about how slow their computer is running .
Older computers with less drive space , less memory , and slower processors will have a harder time coping with newer software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem I see is "software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster.
" Try telling people with a P4 why they can't have Windows 7 running Aero and Facebook and Word and Outlook and 'The Twitter' and Yahoo and eBay and MTV and iTunes and antivirus and ZoneAlarm and Bejeweled and... and... they just won't understand.
For every program that's running, it causes all the other programs to run a little slower.
They'll insist they need to have all those programs running at the same time, yet they'll also complain about how slow their computer is running.
Older computers with less drive space, less memory, and slower processors will have a harder time coping with newer software.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582046</id>
	<title>Re:But it isn't cost effective!</title>
	<author>commodore64\_love</author>
	<datestamp>1269352260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;&gt;Try telling people with a P4 why they can't have Windows 7 running [13+ programs]</p><p>I have a P4.  You can do all that if you eliminate the hard drive thrashing (the true cause of slowdown) by upgrading from the standard 512 to ~5,000 megabytes of RAM.  Not cost effective but possible.  And it will run just fine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; &gt; Try telling people with a P4 why they ca n't have Windows 7 running [ 13 + programs ] I have a P4 .
You can do all that if you eliminate the hard drive thrashing ( the true cause of slowdown ) by upgrading from the standard 512 to ~ 5,000 megabytes of RAM .
Not cost effective but possible .
And it will run just fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;&gt;Try telling people with a P4 why they can't have Windows 7 running [13+ programs]I have a P4.
You can do all that if you eliminate the hard drive thrashing (the true cause of slowdown) by upgrading from the standard 512 to ~5,000 megabytes of RAM.
Not cost effective but possible.
And it will run just fine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581576</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31585494</id>
	<title>It's generally...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269366180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...NOT cost effective to repair a GOODLY deal of electronic equipment, especially given that in MANY cases replacement parts will simply no longer be available and/or the equipment is so "old" that it's failure/impending failure would turn it into an upgrade round.  In the case of a good deal of older servers this would be a good thing from an efficiency standpoint.</p><p>I still have 10+ year old computers acting as file servers, and even used one as a router/web server for a goodly number of years -- an old SMP Tyan mb w/a couple of P-IIs, originally picked it up to see how BeOS would actually run in a SMP setup and initially had a couple "cheap" (at the time) Celerons with slotket adapters running in it -&gt; linux + apache + 2 PCI ethernet boards -&gt; router/web server.</p><p>Even for personal electronics this isn't such a great idea, as we go straight back to parts availability in which repairs generally would mean replacing entire motherboards + CPU + RAM, etc. which after a few years simply wouldn't be available, i.e. they'd likely end up with "free" upgrades costing the English a crapload of cash.  The cost would be prohibitive to hire technicians to actually attempt to replace discrete parts hoping to fix a problem, and forget about it if it was something like a SoC CPU.  Not to mention if it's anything like national health care systems the efficiency would be so awful v. the cost of replacement that I'd hazard that most people would simply opt to replace anyways.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...NOT cost effective to repair a GOODLY deal of electronic equipment , especially given that in MANY cases replacement parts will simply no longer be available and/or the equipment is so " old " that it 's failure/impending failure would turn it into an upgrade round .
In the case of a good deal of older servers this would be a good thing from an efficiency standpoint.I still have 10 + year old computers acting as file servers , and even used one as a router/web server for a goodly number of years -- an old SMP Tyan mb w/a couple of P-IIs , originally picked it up to see how BeOS would actually run in a SMP setup and initially had a couple " cheap " ( at the time ) Celerons with slotket adapters running in it - &gt; linux + apache + 2 PCI ethernet boards - &gt; router/web server.Even for personal electronics this is n't such a great idea , as we go straight back to parts availability in which repairs generally would mean replacing entire motherboards + CPU + RAM , etc .
which after a few years simply would n't be available , i.e .
they 'd likely end up with " free " upgrades costing the English a crapload of cash .
The cost would be prohibitive to hire technicians to actually attempt to replace discrete parts hoping to fix a problem , and forget about it if it was something like a SoC CPU .
Not to mention if it 's anything like national health care systems the efficiency would be so awful v. the cost of replacement that I 'd hazard that most people would simply opt to replace anyways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...NOT cost effective to repair a GOODLY deal of electronic equipment, especially given that in MANY cases replacement parts will simply no longer be available and/or the equipment is so "old" that it's failure/impending failure would turn it into an upgrade round.
In the case of a good deal of older servers this would be a good thing from an efficiency standpoint.I still have 10+ year old computers acting as file servers, and even used one as a router/web server for a goodly number of years -- an old SMP Tyan mb w/a couple of P-IIs, originally picked it up to see how BeOS would actually run in a SMP setup and initially had a couple "cheap" (at the time) Celerons with slotket adapters running in it -&gt; linux + apache + 2 PCI ethernet boards -&gt; router/web server.Even for personal electronics this isn't such a great idea, as we go straight back to parts availability in which repairs generally would mean replacing entire motherboards + CPU + RAM, etc.
which after a few years simply wouldn't be available, i.e.
they'd likely end up with "free" upgrades costing the English a crapload of cash.
The cost would be prohibitive to hire technicians to actually attempt to replace discrete parts hoping to fix a problem, and forget about it if it was something like a SoC CPU.
Not to mention if it's anything like national health care systems the efficiency would be so awful v. the cost of replacement that I'd hazard that most people would simply opt to replace anyways.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581478</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry but</title>
	<author>nacturation</author>
	<datestamp>1269347820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My rough rule of thumb is that every hour the average Joe out there spends paying someone to fix their computer is roughly equivalent to one year of computer life.  Unless the work involves data that you can't replace, it's typically not worth it if your system is more than a few years old.</p><p>It's sad, but the days of spending $3000 just to get a half-decent desktop system are over.  Wipe your data (or destroy the hard drive) and throw it in the recycle bin.  Your money is better spent upgrading and buying yourself a few more years of computer life along with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My rough rule of thumb is that every hour the average Joe out there spends paying someone to fix their computer is roughly equivalent to one year of computer life .
Unless the work involves data that you ca n't replace , it 's typically not worth it if your system is more than a few years old.It 's sad , but the days of spending $ 3000 just to get a half-decent desktop system are over .
Wipe your data ( or destroy the hard drive ) and throw it in the recycle bin .
Your money is better spent upgrading and buying yourself a few more years of computer life along with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My rough rule of thumb is that every hour the average Joe out there spends paying someone to fix their computer is roughly equivalent to one year of computer life.
Unless the work involves data that you can't replace, it's typically not worth it if your system is more than a few years old.It's sad, but the days of spending $3000 just to get a half-decent desktop system are over.
Wipe your data (or destroy the hard drive) and throw it in the recycle bin.
Your money is better spent upgrading and buying yourself a few more years of computer life along with it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581342</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31584598</id>
	<title>But think of the children</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269362880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ah, a lovely idea to give a small group a favor via the tax rules.  We all know it's for a wonderful cause (saving the environment, creating skilled jobs, minty fresh breath for all, etc...), but such a WRONG way to attempt good results.</p><p>If throwing out old PC's/electronics is bad, then make it expensive.  (i.e. charge for the cost of safe disposal of all that lead, cadmium, and other nasty stuff)  Then the owners of the gear will have the incentive to get it fixed.  PLEASE let's not build policy based on handouts to small but vocal groups who can position their interests as in line with the public's.</p><p>Yes yes, figuring out the right way to collect the "disposal fee" from people won't be easy.  And preventing people for cheating will require constant vigilance.  But I'm on my soapbox at the moment and as long as I stay up here, I don't need to give any details on solving those details.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah , a lovely idea to give a small group a favor via the tax rules .
We all know it 's for a wonderful cause ( saving the environment , creating skilled jobs , minty fresh breath for all , etc... ) , but such a WRONG way to attempt good results.If throwing out old PC 's/electronics is bad , then make it expensive .
( i.e. charge for the cost of safe disposal of all that lead , cadmium , and other nasty stuff ) Then the owners of the gear will have the incentive to get it fixed .
PLEASE let 's not build policy based on handouts to small but vocal groups who can position their interests as in line with the public 's.Yes yes , figuring out the right way to collect the " disposal fee " from people wo n't be easy .
And preventing people for cheating will require constant vigilance .
But I 'm on my soapbox at the moment and as long as I stay up here , I do n't need to give any details on solving those details .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah, a lovely idea to give a small group a favor via the tax rules.
We all know it's for a wonderful cause (saving the environment, creating skilled jobs, minty fresh breath for all, etc...), but such a WRONG way to attempt good results.If throwing out old PC's/electronics is bad, then make it expensive.
(i.e. charge for the cost of safe disposal of all that lead, cadmium, and other nasty stuff)  Then the owners of the gear will have the incentive to get it fixed.
PLEASE let's not build policy based on handouts to small but vocal groups who can position their interests as in line with the public's.Yes yes, figuring out the right way to collect the "disposal fee" from people won't be easy.
And preventing people for cheating will require constant vigilance.
But I'm on my soapbox at the moment and as long as I stay up here, I don't need to give any details on solving those details.
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31591910</id>
	<title>The tax dogging fuck's.</title>
	<author>vosester</author>
	<datestamp>1269350580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You want to know why is not cost effective to repair old computers greed, simple. I came to the town I now live in and I had a lot of time while I was getting my company of the ground. So I got a job in one of the high street computer repair shops, not a chain like PC World. I would rather stab myself in the leg with a fork than work at one of those places.</p><p>When I started it was like doing the time warp back to 1995. Every component was the oldest cheapest crappies piece of shit on the market and have a mark up of several times the actual price.</p><p>The owner even made sure that no mater what the problem was with the computer was, to some how justify reinstalling Windows so he could charge.</p><p>Every customer who would come in, spend at lest &pound;100, for so little work mostly not needed.</p><p>Plus the crappy components he sold them would fail and they would be back, he would give them some techno-babble bullshit and they would pay again!!!</p><p>After six months I lost my rag with the guy and left.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You want to know why is not cost effective to repair old computers greed , simple .
I came to the town I now live in and I had a lot of time while I was getting my company of the ground .
So I got a job in one of the high street computer repair shops , not a chain like PC World .
I would rather stab myself in the leg with a fork than work at one of those places.When I started it was like doing the time warp back to 1995 .
Every component was the oldest cheapest crappies piece of shit on the market and have a mark up of several times the actual price.The owner even made sure that no mater what the problem was with the computer was , to some how justify reinstalling Windows so he could charge.Every customer who would come in , spend at lest   100 , for so little work mostly not needed.Plus the crappy components he sold them would fail and they would be back , he would give them some techno-babble bullshit and they would pay again ! !
! After six months I lost my rag with the guy and left .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You want to know why is not cost effective to repair old computers greed, simple.
I came to the town I now live in and I had a lot of time while I was getting my company of the ground.
So I got a job in one of the high street computer repair shops, not a chain like PC World.
I would rather stab myself in the leg with a fork than work at one of those places.When I started it was like doing the time warp back to 1995.
Every component was the oldest cheapest crappies piece of shit on the market and have a mark up of several times the actual price.The owner even made sure that no mater what the problem was with the computer was, to some how justify reinstalling Windows so he could charge.Every customer who would come in, spend at lest £100, for so little work mostly not needed.Plus the crappy components he sold them would fail and they would be back, he would give them some techno-babble bullshit and they would pay again!!
!After six months I lost my rag with the guy and left.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582066</id>
	<title>Re:Abused</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1269352320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;and requires less energy than older technology.</p><p>That is false for the case of the computer.  Why do computers need 550W, 800W or 1000W rated power supply vs the on days 300W?</p><p>New top of the line graphic cards are to the point of breaking PCIe spec of 300W contrasted of the old AGP ones that have a small fan.<br>New top of the line 4 or 6 cores CPU can draw up to 120W of power</p><p>Please do some research before making a blanket statement.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; and requires less energy than older technology.That is false for the case of the computer .
Why do computers need 550W , 800W or 1000W rated power supply vs the on days 300W ? New top of the line graphic cards are to the point of breaking PCIe spec of 300W contrasted of the old AGP ones that have a small fan.New top of the line 4 or 6 cores CPU can draw up to 120W of powerPlease do some research before making a blanket statement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;and requires less energy than older technology.That is false for the case of the computer.
Why do computers need 550W, 800W or 1000W rated power supply vs the on days 300W?New top of the line graphic cards are to the point of breaking PCIe spec of 300W contrasted of the old AGP ones that have a small fan.New top of the line 4 or 6 cores CPU can draw up to 120W of powerPlease do some research before making a blanket statement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581466</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582066
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581466
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581298
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582058
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581298
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31584828
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31583538
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581592
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31584734
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581416
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582476
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581602
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31587574
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581864
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581342
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581668
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581466
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581298
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581618
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581416
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581478
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581342
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582046
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581576
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581714
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31588750
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581962
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_23_1016202_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582562
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_23_1016202.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581336
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_23_1016202.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581330
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581962
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31588750
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581714
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582562
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581576
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582046
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31587574
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_23_1016202.9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581416
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581618
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31584734
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_23_1016202.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581602
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582476
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_23_1016202.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581342
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581478
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581864
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_23_1016202.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581376
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_23_1016202.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581298
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582058
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581466
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31582066
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581668
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_23_1016202.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581650
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_23_1016202.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31581592
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31583538
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31584828
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_03_23_1016202.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_23_1016202.31591910
</commentlist>
</conversation>
