<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_18_0621237</id>
	<title>Can You Fight DRM With Patience?</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1268905140000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>As modern DRM schemes get <a href="http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/02/18/0719256/Ubisofts-Constant-Net-Connection-DRM-Confirmed">more annoying</a> and invasive, the common wisdom is to vote with your wallet and avoid supporting developers and publishers who include such schemes with their games. Or, if you simply must play it, wait a while until outcry and complaints have caused the DRM restrictions to be loosened. But will any of that make game creators rethink their stance? An article at CNet argues that gamers are, in general, an impatient bunch, and that trait combined with the nature of the games industry means that <a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076\_3-20000506-248.html?">progress fighting DRM will be slow or nonexistent</a>. Quoting:
<i>"Increasingly so, the joke seems to be on the customers who end up buying this software when it first comes out. A simple look back at some controversial titles has shown us that after the initial sales come, the publisher later removes the vast majority of the DRM, leaving gamers to enjoy the software with fewer restrictions. ... Still, [waiting until later to purchase the game] isn't a good long-term solution. Early sales are often one of the big quantifiers in whether a studio will start working on a sequel, and if everyone were to wait to buy games once they hit the bargain price, publishers would simply stop making PC versions. There's also no promise that the really heavy bits of DRM will be stripped out at a later date, except for the fact that most publishers are unlikely to want to maintain the cost of running the activation, and/or online verification servers for older software."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>As modern DRM schemes get more annoying and invasive , the common wisdom is to vote with your wallet and avoid supporting developers and publishers who include such schemes with their games .
Or , if you simply must play it , wait a while until outcry and complaints have caused the DRM restrictions to be loosened .
But will any of that make game creators rethink their stance ?
An article at CNet argues that gamers are , in general , an impatient bunch , and that trait combined with the nature of the games industry means that progress fighting DRM will be slow or nonexistent .
Quoting : " Increasingly so , the joke seems to be on the customers who end up buying this software when it first comes out .
A simple look back at some controversial titles has shown us that after the initial sales come , the publisher later removes the vast majority of the DRM , leaving gamers to enjoy the software with fewer restrictions .
... Still , [ waiting until later to purchase the game ] is n't a good long-term solution .
Early sales are often one of the big quantifiers in whether a studio will start working on a sequel , and if everyone were to wait to buy games once they hit the bargain price , publishers would simply stop making PC versions .
There 's also no promise that the really heavy bits of DRM will be stripped out at a later date , except for the fact that most publishers are unlikely to want to maintain the cost of running the activation , and/or online verification servers for older software .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As modern DRM schemes get more annoying and invasive, the common wisdom is to vote with your wallet and avoid supporting developers and publishers who include such schemes with their games.
Or, if you simply must play it, wait a while until outcry and complaints have caused the DRM restrictions to be loosened.
But will any of that make game creators rethink their stance?
An article at CNet argues that gamers are, in general, an impatient bunch, and that trait combined with the nature of the games industry means that progress fighting DRM will be slow or nonexistent.
Quoting:
"Increasingly so, the joke seems to be on the customers who end up buying this software when it first comes out.
A simple look back at some controversial titles has shown us that after the initial sales come, the publisher later removes the vast majority of the DRM, leaving gamers to enjoy the software with fewer restrictions.
... Still, [waiting until later to purchase the game] isn't a good long-term solution.
Early sales are often one of the big quantifiers in whether a studio will start working on a sequel, and if everyone were to wait to buy games once they hit the bargain price, publishers would simply stop making PC versions.
There's also no promise that the really heavy bits of DRM will be stripped out at a later date, except for the fact that most publishers are unlikely to want to maintain the cost of running the activation, and/or online verification servers for older software.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520422</id>
	<title>No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268910360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If a game comes with DRM that you don't like, you really mustn't buy it. If you do, it <i>rewards</i> Ubisoft or EA or whoever, and <i>the DRM scheme will either be used again or made worse</i>!
</p><p>Pirating the game <i>sends the same message</i>. The publishers do have some idea of the numbers of peopls who are copying their games, and if there are many more than expected, then <i>the DRM scheme will be made worse</i>!
</p><p>Therefore, it's very important to check the "Requirements" for a game before you buy, even if your PC will clearly be capable of running it. Respectable stores like Steam will warn you about the types of DRM used by the game in clear terms, and you can decide whether it's too much. This information isn't in large text in the centre of the screen as it should be ("Warning: SecuROM", "Danger - Game Published By Ubisoft") but it's there, and these days you must always check for it.
</p><p>Can you fight DRM with patience? Well, yes or no, <i>it's your only option</i>. Voting with your wallet is your only way to discourage this sort of thing. Eventually the price will be lowered and (maybe) the DRM will be removed to pick up extra sales. Then you win.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If a game comes with DRM that you do n't like , you really must n't buy it .
If you do , it rewards Ubisoft or EA or whoever , and the DRM scheme will either be used again or made worse !
Pirating the game sends the same message .
The publishers do have some idea of the numbers of peopls who are copying their games , and if there are many more than expected , then the DRM scheme will be made worse !
Therefore , it 's very important to check the " Requirements " for a game before you buy , even if your PC will clearly be capable of running it .
Respectable stores like Steam will warn you about the types of DRM used by the game in clear terms , and you can decide whether it 's too much .
This information is n't in large text in the centre of the screen as it should be ( " Warning : SecuROM " , " Danger - Game Published By Ubisoft " ) but it 's there , and these days you must always check for it .
Can you fight DRM with patience ?
Well , yes or no , it 's your only option .
Voting with your wallet is your only way to discourage this sort of thing .
Eventually the price will be lowered and ( maybe ) the DRM will be removed to pick up extra sales .
Then you win .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a game comes with DRM that you don't like, you really mustn't buy it.
If you do, it rewards Ubisoft or EA or whoever, and the DRM scheme will either be used again or made worse!
Pirating the game sends the same message.
The publishers do have some idea of the numbers of peopls who are copying their games, and if there are many more than expected, then the DRM scheme will be made worse!
Therefore, it's very important to check the "Requirements" for a game before you buy, even if your PC will clearly be capable of running it.
Respectable stores like Steam will warn you about the types of DRM used by the game in clear terms, and you can decide whether it's too much.
This information isn't in large text in the centre of the screen as it should be ("Warning: SecuROM", "Danger - Game Published By Ubisoft") but it's there, and these days you must always check for it.
Can you fight DRM with patience?
Well, yes or no, it's your only option.
Voting with your wallet is your only way to discourage this sort of thing.
Eventually the price will be lowered and (maybe) the DRM will be removed to pick up extra sales.
Then you win.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521234</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>Nyder</author>
	<datestamp>1268919060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If a game comes with DRM that you don't like, you really mustn't buy it. If you do, it <i>rewards</i> Ubisoft or EA or whoever, and <i>the DRM scheme will either be used again or made worse</i>!</p><p>Pirating the game <i>sends the same message</i>. The publishers do have some idea of the numbers of peopls who are copying their games, and if there are many more than expected, then <i>the DRM scheme will be made worse</i>!</p><p>Therefore, it's very important to check the "Requirements" for a game before you buy, even if your PC will clearly be capable of running it. Respectable stores like Steam will warn you about the types of DRM used by the game in clear terms, and you can decide whether it's too much. This information isn't in large text in the centre of the screen as it should be ("Warning: SecuROM", "Danger - Game Published By Ubisoft") but it's there, and these days you must always check for it.</p><p>Can you fight DRM with patience? Well, yes or no, <i>it's your only option</i>. Voting with your wallet is your only way to discourage this sort of thing. Eventually the price will be lowered and (maybe) the DRM will be removed to pick up extra sales. Then you win.</p></div><p>ROFL   dude, you are funny.</p><p>did you ever stop to think the numbers they produce about their pirated software is fake?   There is NO WAY for them to find out how many people pirate their software.  None.</p><p>Even if no one pirated software anymore, they'd still say they lose money to pirates.</p><p>Blaming piracy is the scapegoat the industry uses for everything.   Didn't sell well?  Oh, the pirates!    We aren't making enough money?  Oh, the pirates!   What, I got VD?  Oh, the pirates!</p><p>The gaming and software companies (even music and video) never have had control over their products as they are trying so hard to get now.   you'd buy a game, then play wherever you could.   now though, they want you to play it under their terms, under their conditions, because your a criminal if you don't?</p><p>Fuck ya, I'm a criminal.</p><p>This all comes down to control, and honestly, it's big corporations against the people.   They feel that we should be giving them money all the time, for everything, even though it's never been like that before.   They blame the pirates, even though games have been pirated since they started producing them.   You can't tell me any video game producing company didn't know that games have been pirated since they first came out.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If a game comes with DRM that you do n't like , you really must n't buy it .
If you do , it rewards Ubisoft or EA or whoever , and the DRM scheme will either be used again or made worse ! Pirating the game sends the same message .
The publishers do have some idea of the numbers of peopls who are copying their games , and if there are many more than expected , then the DRM scheme will be made worse ! Therefore , it 's very important to check the " Requirements " for a game before you buy , even if your PC will clearly be capable of running it .
Respectable stores like Steam will warn you about the types of DRM used by the game in clear terms , and you can decide whether it 's too much .
This information is n't in large text in the centre of the screen as it should be ( " Warning : SecuROM " , " Danger - Game Published By Ubisoft " ) but it 's there , and these days you must always check for it.Can you fight DRM with patience ?
Well , yes or no , it 's your only option .
Voting with your wallet is your only way to discourage this sort of thing .
Eventually the price will be lowered and ( maybe ) the DRM will be removed to pick up extra sales .
Then you win.ROFL dude , you are funny.did you ever stop to think the numbers they produce about their pirated software is fake ?
There is NO WAY for them to find out how many people pirate their software .
None.Even if no one pirated software anymore , they 'd still say they lose money to pirates.Blaming piracy is the scapegoat the industry uses for everything .
Did n't sell well ?
Oh , the pirates !
We are n't making enough money ?
Oh , the pirates !
What , I got VD ?
Oh , the pirates ! The gaming and software companies ( even music and video ) never have had control over their products as they are trying so hard to get now .
you 'd buy a game , then play wherever you could .
now though , they want you to play it under their terms , under their conditions , because your a criminal if you do n't ? Fuck ya , I 'm a criminal.This all comes down to control , and honestly , it 's big corporations against the people .
They feel that we should be giving them money all the time , for everything , even though it 's never been like that before .
They blame the pirates , even though games have been pirated since they started producing them .
You ca n't tell me any video game producing company did n't know that games have been pirated since they first came out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a game comes with DRM that you don't like, you really mustn't buy it.
If you do, it rewards Ubisoft or EA or whoever, and the DRM scheme will either be used again or made worse!Pirating the game sends the same message.
The publishers do have some idea of the numbers of peopls who are copying their games, and if there are many more than expected, then the DRM scheme will be made worse!Therefore, it's very important to check the "Requirements" for a game before you buy, even if your PC will clearly be capable of running it.
Respectable stores like Steam will warn you about the types of DRM used by the game in clear terms, and you can decide whether it's too much.
This information isn't in large text in the centre of the screen as it should be ("Warning: SecuROM", "Danger - Game Published By Ubisoft") but it's there, and these days you must always check for it.Can you fight DRM with patience?
Well, yes or no, it's your only option.
Voting with your wallet is your only way to discourage this sort of thing.
Eventually the price will be lowered and (maybe) the DRM will be removed to pick up extra sales.
Then you win.ROFL   dude, you are funny.did you ever stop to think the numbers they produce about their pirated software is fake?
There is NO WAY for them to find out how many people pirate their software.
None.Even if no one pirated software anymore, they'd still say they lose money to pirates.Blaming piracy is the scapegoat the industry uses for everything.
Didn't sell well?
Oh, the pirates!
We aren't making enough money?
Oh, the pirates!
What, I got VD?
Oh, the pirates!The gaming and software companies (even music and video) never have had control over their products as they are trying so hard to get now.
you'd buy a game, then play wherever you could.
now though, they want you to play it under their terms, under their conditions, because your a criminal if you don't?Fuck ya, I'm a criminal.This all comes down to control, and honestly, it's big corporations against the people.
They feel that we should be giving them money all the time, for everything, even though it's never been like that before.
They blame the pirates, even though games have been pirated since they started producing them.
You can't tell me any video game producing company didn't know that games have been pirated since they first came out.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521180</id>
	<title>Re:DRM On Games Will Stay...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268918580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Games have become such huge business surrounded by such huge marketing hype that the games companies can now basically do what they like.</p><p>They don't care about the "intelligent gamers" who sit on the fence for a while after a game is released, read reviews &amp; see what problems there are before they think about buying it - they're interested in the fanbois and the screaming kids who force their parents to queue up at midnight on release day, ultimately it's about how many copies are sold in the first couple of weeks.</p><p>Screaming kids don't care about DRM and fanbois will find a way of rationalising the inconvenience of DRM into something that is good.</p><p>I'm still disgusted with myself that even though Fallout 3 is one of the best and most absorbing games I have ever played, I still put up with having to insert my game DVD into the drive every time I play it, even though I log into Windows Live each time and have already purchased some of the DLC.</p><p>With that said, I waited about a year after release before I bought it and even then the game was suffering from some fairly bad crashes due to bugs in it.</p></div><p>Thats weird.   Because I don't like having to put a DVD in the drive to play any games, I get them cracked.   NoDVD cracks are very popular.</p><p>While I understand what your saying, I don't understand why you can't just use google to get a nodvd crack for your games.<br>www.gamecopyworld.com  is my fav.</p><p>Seriously, I think alot of you like to just bitch about it, but accept it.</p><p>While on console games it's accepted that you need to put a disk in to play it, on PC's that's just bullshit.   What the companies really want is for that dvd to become unusable, so you'll have to buy another copy of the game.    not cool.</p><p>I'm not saying any DRM is good, because it all sucks and is a waste.  But you peeps that are bitching about it, then using it need to either stfu, or accept your sheep.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Games have become such huge business surrounded by such huge marketing hype that the games companies can now basically do what they like.They do n't care about the " intelligent gamers " who sit on the fence for a while after a game is released , read reviews &amp; see what problems there are before they think about buying it - they 're interested in the fanbois and the screaming kids who force their parents to queue up at midnight on release day , ultimately it 's about how many copies are sold in the first couple of weeks.Screaming kids do n't care about DRM and fanbois will find a way of rationalising the inconvenience of DRM into something that is good.I 'm still disgusted with myself that even though Fallout 3 is one of the best and most absorbing games I have ever played , I still put up with having to insert my game DVD into the drive every time I play it , even though I log into Windows Live each time and have already purchased some of the DLC.With that said , I waited about a year after release before I bought it and even then the game was suffering from some fairly bad crashes due to bugs in it.Thats weird .
Because I do n't like having to put a DVD in the drive to play any games , I get them cracked .
NoDVD cracks are very popular.While I understand what your saying , I do n't understand why you ca n't just use google to get a nodvd crack for your games.www.gamecopyworld.com is my fav.Seriously , I think alot of you like to just bitch about it , but accept it.While on console games it 's accepted that you need to put a disk in to play it , on PC 's that 's just bullshit .
What the companies really want is for that dvd to become unusable , so you 'll have to buy another copy of the game .
not cool.I 'm not saying any DRM is good , because it all sucks and is a waste .
But you peeps that are bitching about it , then using it need to either stfu , or accept your sheep .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Games have become such huge business surrounded by such huge marketing hype that the games companies can now basically do what they like.They don't care about the "intelligent gamers" who sit on the fence for a while after a game is released, read reviews &amp; see what problems there are before they think about buying it - they're interested in the fanbois and the screaming kids who force their parents to queue up at midnight on release day, ultimately it's about how many copies are sold in the first couple of weeks.Screaming kids don't care about DRM and fanbois will find a way of rationalising the inconvenience of DRM into something that is good.I'm still disgusted with myself that even though Fallout 3 is one of the best and most absorbing games I have ever played, I still put up with having to insert my game DVD into the drive every time I play it, even though I log into Windows Live each time and have already purchased some of the DLC.With that said, I waited about a year after release before I bought it and even then the game was suffering from some fairly bad crashes due to bugs in it.Thats weird.
Because I don't like having to put a DVD in the drive to play any games, I get them cracked.
NoDVD cracks are very popular.While I understand what your saying, I don't understand why you can't just use google to get a nodvd crack for your games.www.gamecopyworld.com  is my fav.Seriously, I think alot of you like to just bitch about it, but accept it.While on console games it's accepted that you need to put a disk in to play it, on PC's that's just bullshit.
What the companies really want is for that dvd to become unusable, so you'll have to buy another copy of the game.
not cool.I'm not saying any DRM is good, because it all sucks and is a waste.
But you peeps that are bitching about it, then using it need to either stfu, or accept your sheep.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520388</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31523050</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>RalphTheWonderLlama</author>
	<datestamp>1268928180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow that sounds just like the Chinese people who put up with government censorship because that's just the way it is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow that sounds just like the Chinese people who put up with government censorship because that 's just the way it is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow that sounds just like the Chinese people who put up with government censorship because that's just the way it is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520412</id>
	<title>oh well</title>
	<author>moot\_xss</author>
	<datestamp>1268910240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>you can torrent the game, and then pay if you care</htmltext>
<tokenext>you can torrent the game , and then pay if you care</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you can torrent the game, and then pay if you care</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520986</id>
	<title>Re:Who's blaming who here?</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1268917200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm waiting for a game that doesn't ram stuff up my ass that I dunno where it's been before.</p></div><p>People could insert a fire hydrant in my ass if they told me on which street corner it had been standing.</p><p>No wait... that doesn't sound right...</p><p>People could... uhm... no, I don't really like have stuff inserted in my ass.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm waiting for a game that does n't ram stuff up my ass that I dunno where it 's been before.People could insert a fire hydrant in my ass if they told me on which street corner it had been standing.No wait... that does n't sound right...People could... uhm... no , I do n't really like have stuff inserted in my ass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm waiting for a game that doesn't ram stuff up my ass that I dunno where it's been before.People could insert a fire hydrant in my ass if they told me on which street corner it had been standing.No wait... that doesn't sound right...People could... uhm... no, I don't really like have stuff inserted in my ass.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31523040</id>
	<title>Re:Yes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268928120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with these pros and cons and it is the model I follow myself.</p><p>Actually, if everyone waits to buy the later version, the company will at first think they've made a crappy game and that one may not get a sequel, but when this happens for 2 or 3 major releases in a row, they will start doing market research to discover why no one is buying their games at release and they will discover that it's because people can't stand their DRM and it will force them to rethink so that they can get people to buy at release again. Because it is a money machine, if you deprive a company of what it most wants, it will try and figure out why and find a way to get what it wants.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with these pros and cons and it is the model I follow myself.Actually , if everyone waits to buy the later version , the company will at first think they 've made a crappy game and that one may not get a sequel , but when this happens for 2 or 3 major releases in a row , they will start doing market research to discover why no one is buying their games at release and they will discover that it 's because people ca n't stand their DRM and it will force them to rethink so that they can get people to buy at release again .
Because it is a money machine , if you deprive a company of what it most wants , it will try and figure out why and find a way to get what it wants .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with these pros and cons and it is the model I follow myself.Actually, if everyone waits to buy the later version, the company will at first think they've made a crappy game and that one may not get a sequel, but when this happens for 2 or 3 major releases in a row, they will start doing market research to discover why no one is buying their games at release and they will discover that it's because people can't stand their DRM and it will force them to rethink so that they can get people to buy at release again.
Because it is a money machine, if you deprive a company of what it most wants, it will try and figure out why and find a way to get what it wants.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520388</id>
	<title>DRM On Games Will Stay...</title>
	<author>pandrijeczko</author>
	<datestamp>1268909820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Games have become such huge business surrounded by such huge marketing hype that the games companies can now basically do what they like.</p><p>They don't care about the "intelligent gamers" who sit on the fence for a while after a game is released, read reviews &amp; see what problems there are before they think about buying it - they're interested in the fanbois and the screaming kids who force their parents to queue up at midnight on release day, ultimately it's about how many copies are sold in the first couple of weeks.</p><p>Screaming kids don't care about DRM and fanbois will find a way of rationalising the inconvenience of DRM into something that is good.</p><p>I'm still disgusted with myself that even though Fallout 3 is one of the best and most absorbing games I have ever played, I still put up with having to insert my game DVD into the drive every time I play it, even though I log into Windows Live each time and have already purchased some of the DLC.</p><p>With that said, I waited about a year after release before I bought it and even then the game was suffering from some fairly bad crashes due to bugs in it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Games have become such huge business surrounded by such huge marketing hype that the games companies can now basically do what they like.They do n't care about the " intelligent gamers " who sit on the fence for a while after a game is released , read reviews &amp; see what problems there are before they think about buying it - they 're interested in the fanbois and the screaming kids who force their parents to queue up at midnight on release day , ultimately it 's about how many copies are sold in the first couple of weeks.Screaming kids do n't care about DRM and fanbois will find a way of rationalising the inconvenience of DRM into something that is good.I 'm still disgusted with myself that even though Fallout 3 is one of the best and most absorbing games I have ever played , I still put up with having to insert my game DVD into the drive every time I play it , even though I log into Windows Live each time and have already purchased some of the DLC.With that said , I waited about a year after release before I bought it and even then the game was suffering from some fairly bad crashes due to bugs in it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Games have become such huge business surrounded by such huge marketing hype that the games companies can now basically do what they like.They don't care about the "intelligent gamers" who sit on the fence for a while after a game is released, read reviews &amp; see what problems there are before they think about buying it - they're interested in the fanbois and the screaming kids who force their parents to queue up at midnight on release day, ultimately it's about how many copies are sold in the first couple of weeks.Screaming kids don't care about DRM and fanbois will find a way of rationalising the inconvenience of DRM into something that is good.I'm still disgusted with myself that even though Fallout 3 is one of the best and most absorbing games I have ever played, I still put up with having to insert my game DVD into the drive every time I play it, even though I log into Windows Live each time and have already purchased some of the DLC.With that said, I waited about a year after release before I bought it and even then the game was suffering from some fairly bad crashes due to bugs in it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520742</id>
	<title>Re:No. It Is Far Too Pervasive.</title>
	<author>mbyte</author>
	<datestamp>1268914020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oblig. xkcd comic : <br>
<a href="http://xkcd.com/488/" title="xkcd.com">http://xkcd.com/488/</a> [xkcd.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oblig .
xkcd comic : http : //xkcd.com/488/ [ xkcd.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oblig.
xkcd comic : 
http://xkcd.com/488/ [xkcd.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31524534</id>
	<title>It has disadvantages as well</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1268935260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're not in the social loop<br>You have to go out of your way to avoid spoilers<br>May not be able to find people to play with<br>other players may get too good for you to really compete.<br>Game may be updates to make certain achievements harder. I have been in games where everyone has something nice, but a patch went out to fix a drop rate and then I was never able to get one.</p><p>Neither was is correct. I generally buy late, and those are some issue I have come across.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're not in the social loopYou have to go out of your way to avoid spoilersMay not be able to find people to play withother players may get too good for you to really compete.Game may be updates to make certain achievements harder .
I have been in games where everyone has something nice , but a patch went out to fix a drop rate and then I was never able to get one.Neither was is correct .
I generally buy late , and those are some issue I have come across .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're not in the social loopYou have to go out of your way to avoid spoilersMay not be able to find people to play withother players may get too good for you to really compete.Game may be updates to make certain achievements harder.
I have been in games where everyone has something nice, but a patch went out to fix a drop rate and then I was never able to get one.Neither was is correct.
I generally buy late, and those are some issue I have come across.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520718</id>
	<title>Re:Who's blaming who here?</title>
	<author>delinear</author>
	<datestamp>1268913720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just to add to that - if they stop making DRM-infected games (even at the cost of just not making games for the format), then I wouldn't cry over it. If there is a viable PC games market (and the fact that there are still lots of games released for the PC suggests there is, despite people predicting the death of PC gaming for the last decade - sure it might not be as lucrative as the console market but it's there, company's don't make games for fun after all) then publishers making games without DRM will just fill the void, if there's not a viable market then why artificially try to stimulate it with technology that inconveniences customers?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just to add to that - if they stop making DRM-infected games ( even at the cost of just not making games for the format ) , then I would n't cry over it .
If there is a viable PC games market ( and the fact that there are still lots of games released for the PC suggests there is , despite people predicting the death of PC gaming for the last decade - sure it might not be as lucrative as the console market but it 's there , company 's do n't make games for fun after all ) then publishers making games without DRM will just fill the void , if there 's not a viable market then why artificially try to stimulate it with technology that inconveniences customers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just to add to that - if they stop making DRM-infected games (even at the cost of just not making games for the format), then I wouldn't cry over it.
If there is a viable PC games market (and the fact that there are still lots of games released for the PC suggests there is, despite people predicting the death of PC gaming for the last decade - sure it might not be as lucrative as the console market but it's there, company's don't make games for fun after all) then publishers making games without DRM will just fill the void, if there's not a viable market then why artificially try to stimulate it with technology that inconveniences customers?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31522580</id>
	<title>Re:I fight with my wallet</title>
	<author>Abcd1234</author>
	<datestamp>1268926020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>And if <b>a lot more people</b> completely boycots [sic] DRM-crippled software/games/music/movies...</i></p><p>And that's where your little plan fails.  Why?  *Most people don't care*.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And if a lot more people completely boycots [ sic ] DRM-crippled software/games/music/movies...And that 's where your little plan fails .
Why ? * Most people do n't care * .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And if a lot more people completely boycots [sic] DRM-crippled software/games/music/movies...And that's where your little plan fails.
Why?  *Most people don't care*.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521886</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>IBBoard</author>
	<datestamp>1268922720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>"Well, they do say to save early, save often!"</p></div></blockquote><p>Which is all well and good until they move to a Console-style saving system of only letting you save at arbitrary points (which they might do anyway, but I've not been paying much attention after they said it had the terrible DRM). Then you could be a few yards from the next checkpoint, have your Net die and lose all that progress. Do that a couple of times and I bet he'd be cursing it.</p><p>Also:</p><blockquote><div><p>Does it ever slow down or disconnect quickly when someone else in the house is downloading some music, or have to reboot your modem / router sometimes?</p><p>"Yeah, but I usually play a game while it reboots."</p></div></blockquote><p>He'll have fun once Ubisoft-style DRM is in all games - if the router is rebooting then the game won't be able to connect and so won't start and so he won't be able to use it as a diversion while it reboots!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Well , they do say to save early , save often !
" Which is all well and good until they move to a Console-style saving system of only letting you save at arbitrary points ( which they might do anyway , but I 've not been paying much attention after they said it had the terrible DRM ) .
Then you could be a few yards from the next checkpoint , have your Net die and lose all that progress .
Do that a couple of times and I bet he 'd be cursing it.Also : Does it ever slow down or disconnect quickly when someone else in the house is downloading some music , or have to reboot your modem / router sometimes ?
" Yeah , but I usually play a game while it reboots .
" He 'll have fun once Ubisoft-style DRM is in all games - if the router is rebooting then the game wo n't be able to connect and so wo n't start and so he wo n't be able to use it as a diversion while it reboots !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Well, they do say to save early, save often!
"Which is all well and good until they move to a Console-style saving system of only letting you save at arbitrary points (which they might do anyway, but I've not been paying much attention after they said it had the terrible DRM).
Then you could be a few yards from the next checkpoint, have your Net die and lose all that progress.
Do that a couple of times and I bet he'd be cursing it.Also:Does it ever slow down or disconnect quickly when someone else in the house is downloading some music, or have to reboot your modem / router sometimes?
"Yeah, but I usually play a game while it reboots.
"He'll have fun once Ubisoft-style DRM is in all games - if the router is rebooting then the game won't be able to connect and so won't start and so he won't be able to use it as a diversion while it reboots!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520340</id>
	<title>No.  It Is Far Too Pervasive.</title>
	<author>eldavojohn</author>
	<datestamp>1268908920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Can You Fight DRM With Patience?</p></div><p>I realize that this is in the game section but allow me to recount a story from not two weeks ago.  A story in which I almost threw my XBox 360 through the goddamn wall.  I have one machine that runs Windows XP and connected to that via cat5e cable (shared internet connection) is my XBox 360.  In order to share my media (about a TB of MP3s and Videos -- all very legal unless it is unlicensed video), I need to have this Zune software installed.  Fine.  I had installed it a while ago and though somewhat resource intensive in its UI and "bus service," it worked.  <br> <br>

Then I upgraded my computer's CPU from a single core to a quad core.  I decided to rip my newly acquired MST3K licensed DVD of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Final\_Sacrifice" title="wikipedia.org">The Final Sacrifice</a> [wikipedia.org] to watch Zap Rowsdower in disgustingly high definition (better than my VHS rips anyway) across a network on multiple devices.  <br> <br>

The Zune software stopped working.  Blew an error box whenever I started the service.  <br> <br>

I reinstalled the Zune software.  Nope.  I went to Microsoft's support.  Searched everywhere.  I uninstalled the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET libraries related to the Zune software (the bloat is really hilarious) and all updates.  Reinstalled everything.  Still not working.  <br> <br>

Finally I found that my error code was related to me not having valid<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... you guessed it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... DRM user files.  What I did to cause my DRM files to shit the bed, I'll never know.  Is it hashing something with a unique processor string?  Was it the extra two gigs of RAM I also added?  I don't know.  I <i>do</i> know I wasted the better part of a night and <b>did not</b> get to watch Zap ask if they have beer on the sun.  <br> <br>

The fix was simple.  You had just had to run some executable in Windows that re-initialized all your DRM files.  So I tried to run it.  Guess what.  You can't run it if you don't have valid DRM files in your Local Settings directory.  So I deleted them.  No luck.  Same behavior as if I had tried to start Zune.  So I Googled.  And I searched my OS hard drive for anything with 'drm' in the title.  Curiously enough, my Netflix installation had some executable to the effect of drmreset.exe.  At this point, I would try anything.  I tried it and it worked.  I couldn't believe it.  <br> <br>

Now, I'm thinking it's good I didn't use the Zune software to rip anything to DRM encrypted format<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... because I bet resetting your DRM files in your user directory make those files undecryptable.  <br> <br>

And what caused all this?  I still don't know.  Was it because I had the Netflix silverlight crapware installed to watch Netflix?  Was it because I had XNA installed as well?  Was it simply a CPU upgrade?  I have a masters in computer science.  And this is the shit they expect your regular consumer to figure out.  <br> <br>

In my unfortunate above example, DRM is unavoidable.  I couldn't "wait" that out.  I couldn't watch streaming media on my game station.  Something that should "just work" was hilariously disabled by none other than DRM.  It's everywhere.  Especially in gaming.  This is just one story of DRM inhibiting my ability to enjoy something I paid money for.  And it pisses me off.  To the point of slowly migrating away from gaming.  If you haven't had to tangle with DRM and you're a gamer, just wait.  You will.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can You Fight DRM With Patience ? I realize that this is in the game section but allow me to recount a story from not two weeks ago .
A story in which I almost threw my XBox 360 through the goddamn wall .
I have one machine that runs Windows XP and connected to that via cat5e cable ( shared internet connection ) is my XBox 360 .
In order to share my media ( about a TB of MP3s and Videos -- all very legal unless it is unlicensed video ) , I need to have this Zune software installed .
Fine. I had installed it a while ago and though somewhat resource intensive in its UI and " bus service , " it worked .
Then I upgraded my computer 's CPU from a single core to a quad core .
I decided to rip my newly acquired MST3K licensed DVD of The Final Sacrifice [ wikipedia.org ] to watch Zap Rowsdower in disgustingly high definition ( better than my VHS rips anyway ) across a network on multiple devices .
The Zune software stopped working .
Blew an error box whenever I started the service .
I reinstalled the Zune software .
Nope. I went to Microsoft 's support .
Searched everywhere .
I uninstalled the .NET libraries related to the Zune software ( the bloat is really hilarious ) and all updates .
Reinstalled everything .
Still not working .
Finally I found that my error code was related to me not having valid ... you guessed it ... DRM user files .
What I did to cause my DRM files to shit the bed , I 'll never know .
Is it hashing something with a unique processor string ?
Was it the extra two gigs of RAM I also added ?
I do n't know .
I do know I wasted the better part of a night and did not get to watch Zap ask if they have beer on the sun .
The fix was simple .
You had just had to run some executable in Windows that re-initialized all your DRM files .
So I tried to run it .
Guess what .
You ca n't run it if you do n't have valid DRM files in your Local Settings directory .
So I deleted them .
No luck .
Same behavior as if I had tried to start Zune .
So I Googled .
And I searched my OS hard drive for anything with 'drm ' in the title .
Curiously enough , my Netflix installation had some executable to the effect of drmreset.exe .
At this point , I would try anything .
I tried it and it worked .
I could n't believe it .
Now , I 'm thinking it 's good I did n't use the Zune software to rip anything to DRM encrypted format ... because I bet resetting your DRM files in your user directory make those files undecryptable .
And what caused all this ?
I still do n't know .
Was it because I had the Netflix silverlight crapware installed to watch Netflix ?
Was it because I had XNA installed as well ?
Was it simply a CPU upgrade ?
I have a masters in computer science .
And this is the shit they expect your regular consumer to figure out .
In my unfortunate above example , DRM is unavoidable .
I could n't " wait " that out .
I could n't watch streaming media on my game station .
Something that should " just work " was hilariously disabled by none other than DRM .
It 's everywhere .
Especially in gaming .
This is just one story of DRM inhibiting my ability to enjoy something I paid money for .
And it pisses me off .
To the point of slowly migrating away from gaming .
If you have n't had to tangle with DRM and you 're a gamer , just wait .
You will .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can You Fight DRM With Patience?I realize that this is in the game section but allow me to recount a story from not two weeks ago.
A story in which I almost threw my XBox 360 through the goddamn wall.
I have one machine that runs Windows XP and connected to that via cat5e cable (shared internet connection) is my XBox 360.
In order to share my media (about a TB of MP3s and Videos -- all very legal unless it is unlicensed video), I need to have this Zune software installed.
Fine.  I had installed it a while ago and though somewhat resource intensive in its UI and "bus service," it worked.
Then I upgraded my computer's CPU from a single core to a quad core.
I decided to rip my newly acquired MST3K licensed DVD of The Final Sacrifice [wikipedia.org] to watch Zap Rowsdower in disgustingly high definition (better than my VHS rips anyway) across a network on multiple devices.
The Zune software stopped working.
Blew an error box whenever I started the service.
I reinstalled the Zune software.
Nope.  I went to Microsoft's support.
Searched everywhere.
I uninstalled the .NET libraries related to the Zune software (the bloat is really hilarious) and all updates.
Reinstalled everything.
Still not working.
Finally I found that my error code was related to me not having valid ... you guessed it ... DRM user files.
What I did to cause my DRM files to shit the bed, I'll never know.
Is it hashing something with a unique processor string?
Was it the extra two gigs of RAM I also added?
I don't know.
I do know I wasted the better part of a night and did not get to watch Zap ask if they have beer on the sun.
The fix was simple.
You had just had to run some executable in Windows that re-initialized all your DRM files.
So I tried to run it.
Guess what.
You can't run it if you don't have valid DRM files in your Local Settings directory.
So I deleted them.
No luck.
Same behavior as if I had tried to start Zune.
So I Googled.
And I searched my OS hard drive for anything with 'drm' in the title.
Curiously enough, my Netflix installation had some executable to the effect of drmreset.exe.
At this point, I would try anything.
I tried it and it worked.
I couldn't believe it.
Now, I'm thinking it's good I didn't use the Zune software to rip anything to DRM encrypted format ... because I bet resetting your DRM files in your user directory make those files undecryptable.
And what caused all this?
I still don't know.
Was it because I had the Netflix silverlight crapware installed to watch Netflix?
Was it because I had XNA installed as well?
Was it simply a CPU upgrade?
I have a masters in computer science.
And this is the shit they expect your regular consumer to figure out.
In my unfortunate above example, DRM is unavoidable.
I couldn't "wait" that out.
I couldn't watch streaming media on my game station.
Something that should "just work" was hilariously disabled by none other than DRM.
It's everywhere.
Especially in gaming.
This is just one story of DRM inhibiting my ability to enjoy something I paid money for.
And it pisses me off.
To the point of slowly migrating away from gaming.
If you haven't had to tangle with DRM and you're a gamer, just wait.
You will.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520508</id>
	<title>Re:Battlefield Bad Company 2</title>
	<author>El\_Muerte\_TDS</author>
	<datestamp>1268911320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>EA didn't remove DRM, they replaced DRM. Instead of SecuROM on the Steam copies of that game you get the Steam DRM (erm... still have the Steam DRM).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>EA did n't remove DRM , they replaced DRM .
Instead of SecuROM on the Steam copies of that game you get the Steam DRM ( erm... still have the Steam DRM ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>EA didn't remove DRM, they replaced DRM.
Instead of SecuROM on the Steam copies of that game you get the Steam DRM (erm... still have the Steam DRM).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520334</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521120</id>
	<title>Re:Who's blaming who here?</title>
	<author>MemoryDragon</author>
	<datestamp>1268918160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Same here, Ubisoft has lost me as a customer over their DRM, and given the sales stats, they did not sell more probably they sold less due to AC2 having a DRM which is too aggressive. By now it normally would be on top of the charts worldwide. Well in Germany enough lemmings made it into the top five but thats it and in the US it does not even show up in the top 10 and last time I checked steam, it also was not on the top but around 5 or so.</p><p>Quite miserable for a AAA title which got its fair amount of hype upfront and has been awaited for months! I think Ubisoft could probably have sold twice as many copies by using a classical drm scheme instead of using their customers anals for nuturing their greed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Same here , Ubisoft has lost me as a customer over their DRM , and given the sales stats , they did not sell more probably they sold less due to AC2 having a DRM which is too aggressive .
By now it normally would be on top of the charts worldwide .
Well in Germany enough lemmings made it into the top five but thats it and in the US it does not even show up in the top 10 and last time I checked steam , it also was not on the top but around 5 or so.Quite miserable for a AAA title which got its fair amount of hype upfront and has been awaited for months !
I think Ubisoft could probably have sold twice as many copies by using a classical drm scheme instead of using their customers anals for nuturing their greed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Same here, Ubisoft has lost me as a customer over their DRM, and given the sales stats, they did not sell more probably they sold less due to AC2 having a DRM which is too aggressive.
By now it normally would be on top of the charts worldwide.
Well in Germany enough lemmings made it into the top five but thats it and in the US it does not even show up in the top 10 and last time I checked steam, it also was not on the top but around 5 or so.Quite miserable for a AAA title which got its fair amount of hype upfront and has been awaited for months!
I think Ubisoft could probably have sold twice as many copies by using a classical drm scheme instead of using their customers anals for nuturing their greed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520570</id>
	<title>...sound and fury, signifying lots of money.</title>
	<author>ooe</author>
	<datestamp>1268912040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Patience
Is parlance
But a ripper
Is quicker.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Patience Is parlance But a ripper Is quicker .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Patience
Is parlance
But a ripper
Is quicker.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520794</id>
	<title>Obligatory</title>
	<author>WegianWarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1268914560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <a href="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/steal\_this\_comic.png" title="xkcd.com">'Hey, you'll be a criminal either way'</a> [xkcd.com] </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'Hey , you 'll be a criminal either way ' [ xkcd.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext> 'Hey, you'll be a criminal either way' [xkcd.com] </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520610</id>
	<title>Re:No. It Is Far Too Pervasive.</title>
	<author>delinear</author>
	<datestamp>1268912520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The crux of this is they don't expect the regular user to figure out all of the above, they expect them to get frustrated but just end up buying their content all over again. That was the only reason DRM was ever used with video/audio media, it certainly wasn't to fight piracy, even casual piracy is still idiotically simple. Suddenly the media companies were facing a switch from physical formats which degraded over time to a pure data format which would theoretically last forever. How else are they going to sell your grandkids the same disney movies they sold you as a kid if your copy is still valid?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The crux of this is they do n't expect the regular user to figure out all of the above , they expect them to get frustrated but just end up buying their content all over again .
That was the only reason DRM was ever used with video/audio media , it certainly was n't to fight piracy , even casual piracy is still idiotically simple .
Suddenly the media companies were facing a switch from physical formats which degraded over time to a pure data format which would theoretically last forever .
How else are they going to sell your grandkids the same disney movies they sold you as a kid if your copy is still valid ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The crux of this is they don't expect the regular user to figure out all of the above, they expect them to get frustrated but just end up buying their content all over again.
That was the only reason DRM was ever used with video/audio media, it certainly wasn't to fight piracy, even casual piracy is still idiotically simple.
Suddenly the media companies were facing a switch from physical formats which degraded over time to a pure data format which would theoretically last forever.
How else are they going to sell your grandkids the same disney movies they sold you as a kid if your copy is still valid?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521306</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>XAD1975</author>
	<datestamp>1268919480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some shops here in Geneva, Switzerland have adopted a "return only if within the original plastic wrapping" policy.

I can't wait 'til the first customer unhappy 'bout his AC2 or Settlers VII game freezing when his internet drops tries to return the game. That will be an interesting discussion...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some shops here in Geneva , Switzerland have adopted a " return only if within the original plastic wrapping " policy .
I ca n't wait 'til the first customer unhappy 'bout his AC2 or Settlers VII game freezing when his internet drops tries to return the game .
That will be an interesting discussion.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some shops here in Geneva, Switzerland have adopted a "return only if within the original plastic wrapping" policy.
I can't wait 'til the first customer unhappy 'bout his AC2 or Settlers VII game freezing when his internet drops tries to return the game.
That will be an interesting discussion...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520514</id>
	<title>hmm</title>
	<author>GMThomas</author>
	<datestamp>1268911440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It seems a lot of the more intrusive, powerful DRM systems are created for the purpose of at least having the game uncrackable for the first day of release, when many people will want it.  This means that many of the people who really want to play it will end up buying it because a crack is unavailable at the time, even if it's for only a day.
If more and more people keep waiting for the crack, the first-day sales that these companies rely on will drop.

And that will certainly be interesting once it reaches a critical point.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems a lot of the more intrusive , powerful DRM systems are created for the purpose of at least having the game uncrackable for the first day of release , when many people will want it .
This means that many of the people who really want to play it will end up buying it because a crack is unavailable at the time , even if it 's for only a day .
If more and more people keep waiting for the crack , the first-day sales that these companies rely on will drop .
And that will certainly be interesting once it reaches a critical point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems a lot of the more intrusive, powerful DRM systems are created for the purpose of at least having the game uncrackable for the first day of release, when many people will want it.
This means that many of the people who really want to play it will end up buying it because a crack is unavailable at the time, even if it's for only a day.
If more and more people keep waiting for the crack, the first-day sales that these companies rely on will drop.
And that will certainly be interesting once it reaches a critical point.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520582</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1268912160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here's an anecdote for you. It's something I'm considering sending in an email to Ubi once I have a few more instances under my belt.<br> <br>Browsing the gaming section of my local supermarket (they still sell PC games! I'm amazed at that) I encountered a guy roughly my age looking at Assassin's Creed II. He'd spotted the "Constant Internet Connection Required to Play." sticket on the front, and was looking at roughly the area I'd say was the "System Requirements" part of the back now. I asked him what he thought of the "Always On" DRM.<br> <br>"I don't mind. I have broadband anyway."<br> <br>Surely you're aghast at the prospect of all of the bandwidth usage! The sheer <b>audacity</b> of UbiSoft for insisting that you're connected to the internet to play a single player game!<br> <br>"No, not really. I have 30GB per month, I never use it."<br> <br>Does it ever slow down or disconnect quickly when someone else in the house is downloading some music, or have to reboot your modem / router sometimes?<br> <br>"Yeah, but I usually play a game while it reboots."<br> <br>Well, every time that happens the game will pause. If it's disconnected for too long, it will quit and you lose your progress. You don't get the option to save.<br> <br>"Well, they do say to save early, save often!"<br> <br>- And this is why DRM is here to stay. Nobody else cares.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's an anecdote for you .
It 's something I 'm considering sending in an email to Ubi once I have a few more instances under my belt .
Browsing the gaming section of my local supermarket ( they still sell PC games !
I 'm amazed at that ) I encountered a guy roughly my age looking at Assassin 's Creed II .
He 'd spotted the " Constant Internet Connection Required to Play .
" sticket on the front , and was looking at roughly the area I 'd say was the " System Requirements " part of the back now .
I asked him what he thought of the " Always On " DRM .
" I do n't mind .
I have broadband anyway .
" Surely you 're aghast at the prospect of all of the bandwidth usage !
The sheer audacity of UbiSoft for insisting that you 're connected to the internet to play a single player game !
" No , not really .
I have 30GB per month , I never use it .
" Does it ever slow down or disconnect quickly when someone else in the house is downloading some music , or have to reboot your modem / router sometimes ?
" Yeah , but I usually play a game while it reboots .
" Well , every time that happens the game will pause .
If it 's disconnected for too long , it will quit and you lose your progress .
You do n't get the option to save .
" Well , they do say to save early , save often !
" - And this is why DRM is here to stay .
Nobody else cares .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's an anecdote for you.
It's something I'm considering sending in an email to Ubi once I have a few more instances under my belt.
Browsing the gaming section of my local supermarket (they still sell PC games!
I'm amazed at that) I encountered a guy roughly my age looking at Assassin's Creed II.
He'd spotted the "Constant Internet Connection Required to Play.
" sticket on the front, and was looking at roughly the area I'd say was the "System Requirements" part of the back now.
I asked him what he thought of the "Always On" DRM.
"I don't mind.
I have broadband anyway.
" Surely you're aghast at the prospect of all of the bandwidth usage!
The sheer audacity of UbiSoft for insisting that you're connected to the internet to play a single player game!
"No, not really.
I have 30GB per month, I never use it.
" Does it ever slow down or disconnect quickly when someone else in the house is downloading some music, or have to reboot your modem / router sometimes?
"Yeah, but I usually play a game while it reboots.
" Well, every time that happens the game will pause.
If it's disconnected for too long, it will quit and you lose your progress.
You don't get the option to save.
"Well, they do say to save early, save often!
" - And this is why DRM is here to stay.
Nobody else cares.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520882</id>
	<title>escrow ftw!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268916000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IMHO, escrow should be used for doing away with DRM (and proprietary licensing as well, btw) completely, from day 0. Producers set their price, the escrow receives payments, then when proper amount is amassed those who payed can download the installer, or ISO images if they like, and are free to give, rent or sell copies of it to whoever they like. My bet is, if the unit price is high enough to drive away end-users, there would be folks who would invest into buying original (publishers') releases and, if this model prevails in industry, make living of it. Thus, software companies would be able to cut their expenses abruptly and toss them over onto community of reseller entrepreneurs, keep only their core competencies payrolled, use FLOSS code pool (remember: if you uphold the terms, you are free to charge for it as much as you want, besides, being anal about IP is superfluous if you get money up front), elevate their standings among end-users, all that while still making arbitrary high profits (as long as you don't overestimate your market capacity), and best part of irony is: former "Pirates" (fore mentioned "reseller entrepreneurs") would work on YOUR side, bringing you money instead of taking it away from you, while doing all of manufacturing (making copies), transport, distribution, even advertising and user support, on their own budget. Of course, any optional MMO subscriptions would be marketed separately, direct from publisher, or from affiliates - independent MMO games hosting service companies. Clearly, there are some interesting business opportunities in this picture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IMHO , escrow should be used for doing away with DRM ( and proprietary licensing as well , btw ) completely , from day 0 .
Producers set their price , the escrow receives payments , then when proper amount is amassed those who payed can download the installer , or ISO images if they like , and are free to give , rent or sell copies of it to whoever they like .
My bet is , if the unit price is high enough to drive away end-users , there would be folks who would invest into buying original ( publishers ' ) releases and , if this model prevails in industry , make living of it .
Thus , software companies would be able to cut their expenses abruptly and toss them over onto community of reseller entrepreneurs , keep only their core competencies payrolled , use FLOSS code pool ( remember : if you uphold the terms , you are free to charge for it as much as you want , besides , being anal about IP is superfluous if you get money up front ) , elevate their standings among end-users , all that while still making arbitrary high profits ( as long as you do n't overestimate your market capacity ) , and best part of irony is : former " Pirates " ( fore mentioned " reseller entrepreneurs " ) would work on YOUR side , bringing you money instead of taking it away from you , while doing all of manufacturing ( making copies ) , transport , distribution , even advertising and user support , on their own budget .
Of course , any optional MMO subscriptions would be marketed separately , direct from publisher , or from affiliates - independent MMO games hosting service companies .
Clearly , there are some interesting business opportunities in this picture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IMHO, escrow should be used for doing away with DRM (and proprietary licensing as well, btw) completely, from day 0.
Producers set their price, the escrow receives payments, then when proper amount is amassed those who payed can download the installer, or ISO images if they like, and are free to give, rent or sell copies of it to whoever they like.
My bet is, if the unit price is high enough to drive away end-users, there would be folks who would invest into buying original (publishers') releases and, if this model prevails in industry, make living of it.
Thus, software companies would be able to cut their expenses abruptly and toss them over onto community of reseller entrepreneurs, keep only their core competencies payrolled, use FLOSS code pool (remember: if you uphold the terms, you are free to charge for it as much as you want, besides, being anal about IP is superfluous if you get money up front), elevate their standings among end-users, all that while still making arbitrary high profits (as long as you don't overestimate your market capacity), and best part of irony is: former "Pirates" (fore mentioned "reseller entrepreneurs") would work on YOUR side, bringing you money instead of taking it away from you, while doing all of manufacturing (making copies), transport, distribution, even advertising and user support, on their own budget.
Of course, any optional MMO subscriptions would be marketed separately, direct from publisher, or from affiliates - independent MMO games hosting service companies.
Clearly, there are some interesting business opportunities in this picture.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520760</id>
	<title>yes and no.</title>
	<author>DragonTHC</author>
	<datestamp>1268914200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, insomuchas they will start removing it if sales start to hurt because of DRM.  Think music sales from amazon and e-music.</p><p>No, insomuchas the oblivious in the board room still see it as due diligence.  They don't get out much.  Their collective finger can't find the pulse of their customers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , insomuchas they will start removing it if sales start to hurt because of DRM .
Think music sales from amazon and e-music.No , insomuchas the oblivious in the board room still see it as due diligence .
They do n't get out much .
Their collective finger ca n't find the pulse of their customers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, insomuchas they will start removing it if sales start to hurt because of DRM.
Think music sales from amazon and e-music.No, insomuchas the oblivious in the board room still see it as due diligence.
They don't get out much.
Their collective finger can't find the pulse of their customers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520572</id>
	<title>Excessive protection</title>
	<author>Tei</author>
	<datestamp>1268912040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There use to be these horrible protections in the 90's.  It all vanished, only CD-KEY check remained.  And now we see another wave of zealot-protection from game dev's or game people.<br>Maybe is interesting that these protections are added by the publishers, against the will of the game studios. A good game can be ruined by a bad DRM, but that will kill the game studio, it will not affect the publishers much.</p><p>Most of these new DRM systems seems designed to stop people from sharing games with friends or brothers, not to stop piracy, piracy is just the scapegoat.</p><p>The danger is to scare people away from videogames. Much has been done to attract new people to gamming, the whole casual thingie, It will easier to lost that people again, with complicated DRM systems that break the release day (like the Ubisoft system, that where down the first day, cracked after 12 hours or something, so only pirates where allowed to play the game, pay customers where forced to wait )</p><p>Steam is another DRM system, the model that most (not all) users want, one where things "just work", and add features and enough convenience, to make for the lost of control. So is a good deal.   Most game publishers release games that are a "bad deal", the idea of releasing something that is worth buying escape then,  focus on "screw" customers releasing the minimun product to the maximun price.  Most big publishers already have a fame of "evil" or "stupid".  Lets remenber here that most people have other options than videogames, and may buy music, or travel, and ignore the videogame culture, if we make this culture too much anti-customers, like EA, Activision and Ubisoft are doing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There use to be these horrible protections in the 90 's .
It all vanished , only CD-KEY check remained .
And now we see another wave of zealot-protection from game dev 's or game people.Maybe is interesting that these protections are added by the publishers , against the will of the game studios .
A good game can be ruined by a bad DRM , but that will kill the game studio , it will not affect the publishers much.Most of these new DRM systems seems designed to stop people from sharing games with friends or brothers , not to stop piracy , piracy is just the scapegoat.The danger is to scare people away from videogames .
Much has been done to attract new people to gamming , the whole casual thingie , It will easier to lost that people again , with complicated DRM systems that break the release day ( like the Ubisoft system , that where down the first day , cracked after 12 hours or something , so only pirates where allowed to play the game , pay customers where forced to wait ) Steam is another DRM system , the model that most ( not all ) users want , one where things " just work " , and add features and enough convenience , to make for the lost of control .
So is a good deal .
Most game publishers release games that are a " bad deal " , the idea of releasing something that is worth buying escape then , focus on " screw " customers releasing the minimun product to the maximun price .
Most big publishers already have a fame of " evil " or " stupid " .
Lets remenber here that most people have other options than videogames , and may buy music , or travel , and ignore the videogame culture , if we make this culture too much anti-customers , like EA , Activision and Ubisoft are doing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There use to be these horrible protections in the 90's.
It all vanished, only CD-KEY check remained.
And now we see another wave of zealot-protection from game dev's or game people.Maybe is interesting that these protections are added by the publishers, against the will of the game studios.
A good game can be ruined by a bad DRM, but that will kill the game studio, it will not affect the publishers much.Most of these new DRM systems seems designed to stop people from sharing games with friends or brothers, not to stop piracy, piracy is just the scapegoat.The danger is to scare people away from videogames.
Much has been done to attract new people to gamming, the whole casual thingie, It will easier to lost that people again, with complicated DRM systems that break the release day (like the Ubisoft system, that where down the first day, cracked after 12 hours or something, so only pirates where allowed to play the game, pay customers where forced to wait )Steam is another DRM system, the model that most (not all) users want, one where things "just work", and add features and enough convenience, to make for the lost of control.
So is a good deal.
Most game publishers release games that are a "bad deal", the idea of releasing something that is worth buying escape then,  focus on "screw" customers releasing the minimun product to the maximun price.
Most big publishers already have a fame of "evil" or "stupid".
Lets remenber here that most people have other options than videogames, and may buy music, or travel, and ignore the videogame culture, if we make this culture too much anti-customers, like EA, Activision and Ubisoft are doing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521454</id>
	<title>Re:Commercial Linux Games</title>
	<author>Ephemeriis</author>
	<datestamp>1268920260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Incidentally, DRM and commercial control is one of the main reasons, I believe, that there are so few commercial games released for Linux.</p></div><p>I disagree.</p><p>I think the main reason you don't see a whole lot of commercial games released on Linux is the lack of uniformity.</p><p>Consoles are a popular platform for gaming because it is pretty much going to just work.  The console's hardware is going to be pretty much identical from one machine to the next.  You don't have to worry about CPU speed or background tasks or anything else.  It's an Xbox 360 - aside from the HDD, it's going to be identical to any other Xbox 360.</p><p>With a Windows computer, you've got less uniformity...  The CPU, RAM, GPU, sound, etc. can all be different.  But at least the OS is going to make some predictable things available...  You know that you can call on an assortment of libraries and APIs that are pretty much guaranteed to be there.  There's still the issue of making sure your drivers are up-to-date...  But at least the OS is fairly predictable.  Mostly.</p><p>With a Linux machine...  Well...  You can't honestly count on much of anything.  Is there even a GUI?  If so, is it GNOME?  KDE?  Not only do you have to worry about whether the drivers are up-to-date, but you also have to wonder about the kernel and all the assorted libraries.</p><p>Obviously a lot of that can be overcome - and is, on a fairly routine basis by all the folks writing software for Linux.  But a game developer faced with the choice of supporting a platform with zero unpredictability to worry about, or supporting a platform with tons of unpredictability...  Well, obviously they like the predictable.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Incidentally , DRM and commercial control is one of the main reasons , I believe , that there are so few commercial games released for Linux.I disagree.I think the main reason you do n't see a whole lot of commercial games released on Linux is the lack of uniformity.Consoles are a popular platform for gaming because it is pretty much going to just work .
The console 's hardware is going to be pretty much identical from one machine to the next .
You do n't have to worry about CPU speed or background tasks or anything else .
It 's an Xbox 360 - aside from the HDD , it 's going to be identical to any other Xbox 360.With a Windows computer , you 've got less uniformity... The CPU , RAM , GPU , sound , etc .
can all be different .
But at least the OS is going to make some predictable things available... You know that you can call on an assortment of libraries and APIs that are pretty much guaranteed to be there .
There 's still the issue of making sure your drivers are up-to-date... But at least the OS is fairly predictable .
Mostly.With a Linux machine... Well... You ca n't honestly count on much of anything .
Is there even a GUI ?
If so , is it GNOME ?
KDE ? Not only do you have to worry about whether the drivers are up-to-date , but you also have to wonder about the kernel and all the assorted libraries.Obviously a lot of that can be overcome - and is , on a fairly routine basis by all the folks writing software for Linux .
But a game developer faced with the choice of supporting a platform with zero unpredictability to worry about , or supporting a platform with tons of unpredictability... Well , obviously they like the predictable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Incidentally, DRM and commercial control is one of the main reasons, I believe, that there are so few commercial games released for Linux.I disagree.I think the main reason you don't see a whole lot of commercial games released on Linux is the lack of uniformity.Consoles are a popular platform for gaming because it is pretty much going to just work.
The console's hardware is going to be pretty much identical from one machine to the next.
You don't have to worry about CPU speed or background tasks or anything else.
It's an Xbox 360 - aside from the HDD, it's going to be identical to any other Xbox 360.With a Windows computer, you've got less uniformity...  The CPU, RAM, GPU, sound, etc.
can all be different.
But at least the OS is going to make some predictable things available...  You know that you can call on an assortment of libraries and APIs that are pretty much guaranteed to be there.
There's still the issue of making sure your drivers are up-to-date...  But at least the OS is fairly predictable.
Mostly.With a Linux machine...  Well...  You can't honestly count on much of anything.
Is there even a GUI?
If so, is it GNOME?
KDE?  Not only do you have to worry about whether the drivers are up-to-date, but you also have to wonder about the kernel and all the assorted libraries.Obviously a lot of that can be overcome - and is, on a fairly routine basis by all the folks writing software for Linux.
But a game developer faced with the choice of supporting a platform with zero unpredictability to worry about, or supporting a platform with tons of unpredictability...  Well, obviously they like the predictable.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520498</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520936</id>
	<title>DRM and Impulse</title>
	<author>oakwine</author>
	<datestamp>1268916780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Stardock seems to have grown and prospered by selling games that have no DRM on the disk. A "friend" gives you a copy, you can see if you like it. If you do like it and want bug fixes, updates, and other benefits, then you go online, register, and pay for it. Works for them, maybe, because their games appeal to more intelligent gamers who are also usually honest. The big houses that sell games that are mostly fluff aimed at the 95\% of gamers who only have fluff for brains have to defend themselves against the subhuman fuel screws that are their chosen market.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Stardock seems to have grown and prospered by selling games that have no DRM on the disk .
A " friend " gives you a copy , you can see if you like it .
If you do like it and want bug fixes , updates , and other benefits , then you go online , register , and pay for it .
Works for them , maybe , because their games appeal to more intelligent gamers who are also usually honest .
The big houses that sell games that are mostly fluff aimed at the 95 \ % of gamers who only have fluff for brains have to defend themselves against the subhuman fuel screws that are their chosen market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stardock seems to have grown and prospered by selling games that have no DRM on the disk.
A "friend" gives you a copy, you can see if you like it.
If you do like it and want bug fixes, updates, and other benefits, then you go online, register, and pay for it.
Works for them, maybe, because their games appeal to more intelligent gamers who are also usually honest.
The big houses that sell games that are mostly fluff aimed at the 95\% of gamers who only have fluff for brains have to defend themselves against the subhuman fuel screws that are their chosen market.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521026</id>
	<title>Parent speaks the wisdom!</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1268917440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Pirating the game sends the same message. The publishers do have some idea of the numbers of peopls who are copying their games, and if there are many more than expected, then the DRM scheme will be made worse!</p></div><p>Yeah, pirates should worry about not encouraging nasty DRM, because the nastier the DRM, the fewer paying customers there are to freeload our DRM-free version off of.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Pirating the game sends the same message .
The publishers do have some idea of the numbers of peopls who are copying their games , and if there are many more than expected , then the DRM scheme will be made worse ! Yeah , pirates should worry about not encouraging nasty DRM , because the nastier the DRM , the fewer paying customers there are to freeload our DRM-free version off of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pirating the game sends the same message.
The publishers do have some idea of the numbers of peopls who are copying their games, and if there are many more than expected, then the DRM scheme will be made worse!Yeah, pirates should worry about not encouraging nasty DRM, because the nastier the DRM, the fewer paying customers there are to freeload our DRM-free version off of.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31524734</id>
	<title>Re:Battlefield Bad Company 2</title>
	<author>Deathsoldier11</author>
	<datestamp>1268936340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>They only removed the DRM from the Steam copy of the game. Since Steam has it's own form of DRM, EA thought that was good enough.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They only removed the DRM from the Steam copy of the game .
Since Steam has it 's own form of DRM , EA thought that was good enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They only removed the DRM from the Steam copy of the game.
Since Steam has it's own form of DRM, EA thought that was good enough.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520334</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31522784</id>
	<title>Re:Battlefield Bad Company 2</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268926920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Glad to hear some are removing DRM after a short while... except, if I have a CD/DVD, the DRM is still on it. If I want to install, it still gets installed... then I have to use a patch to remove it? Does it remove all? Or leave bits behind? If I lose the patch and can't find it online, my shiny disc may still be useless.</p><p>I was looking at an slightly older game yesterday, but when I saw the "online activation", I put it back on the shelf.</p><p>I was looking at another game that didn't even mention activation, but did mention an internet connection. Is it for multiplayer, or activation? I put it back on the shelf.</p><p>I thought I would go home and look them up online, to see what DRM they might have, to see if I should get them or not. But I forgot about it, and even now that I remember, I have other things to do and can't be bothered.</p><p>DRM is causing lost sales by me. Even the possibility that it might be present has caused me to not buy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Glad to hear some are removing DRM after a short while... except , if I have a CD/DVD , the DRM is still on it .
If I want to install , it still gets installed... then I have to use a patch to remove it ?
Does it remove all ?
Or leave bits behind ?
If I lose the patch and ca n't find it online , my shiny disc may still be useless.I was looking at an slightly older game yesterday , but when I saw the " online activation " , I put it back on the shelf.I was looking at another game that did n't even mention activation , but did mention an internet connection .
Is it for multiplayer , or activation ?
I put it back on the shelf.I thought I would go home and look them up online , to see what DRM they might have , to see if I should get them or not .
But I forgot about it , and even now that I remember , I have other things to do and ca n't be bothered.DRM is causing lost sales by me .
Even the possibility that it might be present has caused me to not buy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Glad to hear some are removing DRM after a short while... except, if I have a CD/DVD, the DRM is still on it.
If I want to install, it still gets installed... then I have to use a patch to remove it?
Does it remove all?
Or leave bits behind?
If I lose the patch and can't find it online, my shiny disc may still be useless.I was looking at an slightly older game yesterday, but when I saw the "online activation", I put it back on the shelf.I was looking at another game that didn't even mention activation, but did mention an internet connection.
Is it for multiplayer, or activation?
I put it back on the shelf.I thought I would go home and look them up online, to see what DRM they might have, to see if I should get them or not.
But I forgot about it, and even now that I remember, I have other things to do and can't be bothered.DRM is causing lost sales by me.
Even the possibility that it might be present has caused me to not buy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520334</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31525150</id>
	<title>I'm very very patient...</title>
	<author>maharvey</author>
	<datestamp>1268938020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I almost never buy a new game until it's marked down in the $10-$15 rack. By that time the DRM is often gone and/or irrelevant, the bugs are patched, add-ons sequels are available, and the necessary hardware is pretty cheap too. As long as I stay consistently several years behind, it's all fresh and exciting to my eyes, because I'm only comparing it to even older games.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I almost never buy a new game until it 's marked down in the $ 10- $ 15 rack .
By that time the DRM is often gone and/or irrelevant , the bugs are patched , add-ons sequels are available , and the necessary hardware is pretty cheap too .
As long as I stay consistently several years behind , it 's all fresh and exciting to my eyes , because I 'm only comparing it to even older games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I almost never buy a new game until it's marked down in the $10-$15 rack.
By that time the DRM is often gone and/or irrelevant, the bugs are patched, add-ons sequels are available, and the necessary hardware is pretty cheap too.
As long as I stay consistently several years behind, it's all fresh and exciting to my eyes, because I'm only comparing it to even older games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31522332</id>
	<title>Re:Battlefield Bad Company 2</title>
	<author>Jackie\_Chan\_Fan</author>
	<datestamp>1268924760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Great so I have SecuRom on my computer because of that peice of shit Bad Company 2 which has been FULL of bugs since its release.</p><p>And we're not talking just bugs...we're talking feature incomplete bugs... What a fucking pile of shit Bad Company 2 is.</p><p>The game is ok... but the quality in which the software was released.... is criminal.</p><p>It's as if they said "fuck it, lets just put this alpha out"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Great so I have SecuRom on my computer because of that peice of shit Bad Company 2 which has been FULL of bugs since its release.And we 're not talking just bugs...we 're talking feature incomplete bugs... What a fucking pile of shit Bad Company 2 is.The game is ok... but the quality in which the software was released.... is criminal.It 's as if they said " fuck it , lets just put this alpha out "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great so I have SecuRom on my computer because of that peice of shit Bad Company 2 which has been FULL of bugs since its release.And we're not talking just bugs...we're talking feature incomplete bugs... What a fucking pile of shit Bad Company 2 is.The game is ok... but the quality in which the software was released.... is criminal.It's as if they said "fuck it, lets just put this alpha out"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520334</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31524546</id>
	<title>You can't win by waiting or boycotting</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268935320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am convinced that the current industry must almost completely die at this point.  A boycott does nothing, even the most strident calls for change (e.g. Spore and Bioshock) do nothing.  DRM often times is patched out, but sometimes it's patched in.  The only winning move is to not play, don't play on the servers, don't advocate the games, don't review the games, don't do anything to make the community surrounding said games better.  If you pirate (it's largely meaningless whether you do or not, do or don't according to your ethics) you must play on unofficial servers and not promote the game in any way.</p><p>I've tried for years to do it the "right" way.  I never pirated, I bought thousands of dollars in games, often getting burnt when I didn't do enough research beforehand.  I've advocated to players, I've advocated to developers, it all does nothing.</p><p>So, now I just won't take part.  You should see my games library, it is literally amazing.  I do buy an occasional 360 game (around 2 a year), refusing any games that have a PC counterpart with heinous DRM (i.e. I won't get AC2 on my 360 as that would reward Ubisoft who is screwing PC gamers).  I won't use Steam or Impulse, I won't play Torchlight (unless the box version truly has no DRM, then I will), I'm done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am convinced that the current industry must almost completely die at this point .
A boycott does nothing , even the most strident calls for change ( e.g .
Spore and Bioshock ) do nothing .
DRM often times is patched out , but sometimes it 's patched in .
The only winning move is to not play , do n't play on the servers , do n't advocate the games , do n't review the games , do n't do anything to make the community surrounding said games better .
If you pirate ( it 's largely meaningless whether you do or not , do or do n't according to your ethics ) you must play on unofficial servers and not promote the game in any way.I 've tried for years to do it the " right " way .
I never pirated , I bought thousands of dollars in games , often getting burnt when I did n't do enough research beforehand .
I 've advocated to players , I 've advocated to developers , it all does nothing.So , now I just wo n't take part .
You should see my games library , it is literally amazing .
I do buy an occasional 360 game ( around 2 a year ) , refusing any games that have a PC counterpart with heinous DRM ( i.e .
I wo n't get AC2 on my 360 as that would reward Ubisoft who is screwing PC gamers ) .
I wo n't use Steam or Impulse , I wo n't play Torchlight ( unless the box version truly has no DRM , then I will ) , I 'm done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am convinced that the current industry must almost completely die at this point.
A boycott does nothing, even the most strident calls for change (e.g.
Spore and Bioshock) do nothing.
DRM often times is patched out, but sometimes it's patched in.
The only winning move is to not play, don't play on the servers, don't advocate the games, don't review the games, don't do anything to make the community surrounding said games better.
If you pirate (it's largely meaningless whether you do or not, do or don't according to your ethics) you must play on unofficial servers and not promote the game in any way.I've tried for years to do it the "right" way.
I never pirated, I bought thousands of dollars in games, often getting burnt when I didn't do enough research beforehand.
I've advocated to players, I've advocated to developers, it all does nothing.So, now I just won't take part.
You should see my games library, it is literally amazing.
I do buy an occasional 360 game (around 2 a year), refusing any games that have a PC counterpart with heinous DRM (i.e.
I won't get AC2 on my 360 as that would reward Ubisoft who is screwing PC gamers).
I won't use Steam or Impulse, I won't play Torchlight (unless the box version truly has no DRM, then I will), I'm done.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521278</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>Aceticon</author>
	<datestamp>1268919360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most people learn best what's bad for them by trying something and getting hurt.</p><p>Those of little wisdom <b>only</b> learn anything this way: they're just too mentally short-sighted to see much beyond the "uuuhh, shinyyyy".</p><p>A couple of disconnections of one's connection, a couple of "going for vacations but the game doesn't work there", a couple of "Ubisoft's servers down due to unexpected problems" will do wonders in educating the unwashed masses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most people learn best what 's bad for them by trying something and getting hurt.Those of little wisdom only learn anything this way : they 're just too mentally short-sighted to see much beyond the " uuuhh , shinyyyy " .A couple of disconnections of one 's connection , a couple of " going for vacations but the game does n't work there " , a couple of " Ubisoft 's servers down due to unexpected problems " will do wonders in educating the unwashed masses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most people learn best what's bad for them by trying something and getting hurt.Those of little wisdom only learn anything this way: they're just too mentally short-sighted to see much beyond the "uuuhh, shinyyyy".A couple of disconnections of one's connection, a couple of "going for vacations but the game doesn't work there", a couple of "Ubisoft's servers down due to unexpected problems" will do wonders in educating the unwashed masses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31522296</id>
	<title>Re:Who's blaming who here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268924580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>And now I get told "if you don't bend over, they'll stop making games for you".</i></p><p>So the the logic here is the companies that make these stupid decisions for things we do not want will go out of business?  uh boo hoo....  So the companies that make things I dont want and take up space on shelves for things I do want will go away.  Uh sounds like a good idea to me...</p><p>They seem to think they are the only game in town?  There are STACKS of people out there that will write computer games.  I am not worried that computer gaming will 'go away'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And now I get told " if you do n't bend over , they 'll stop making games for you " .So the the logic here is the companies that make these stupid decisions for things we do not want will go out of business ?
uh boo hoo.... So the companies that make things I dont want and take up space on shelves for things I do want will go away .
Uh sounds like a good idea to me...They seem to think they are the only game in town ?
There are STACKS of people out there that will write computer games .
I am not worried that computer gaming will 'go away' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And now I get told "if you don't bend over, they'll stop making games for you".So the the logic here is the companies that make these stupid decisions for things we do not want will go out of business?
uh boo hoo....  So the companies that make things I dont want and take up space on shelves for things I do want will go away.
Uh sounds like a good idea to me...They seem to think they are the only game in town?
There are STACKS of people out there that will write computer games.
I am not worried that computer gaming will 'go away'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31523112</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>the\_bard17</author>
	<datestamp>1268928480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What everyone's missing with that "Permanent Internet Connection Required" sticker: It doesn't require a permanent connection to the internet. It requires a permanent connection to Ubisoft's servers.</p><p>So your single player, offline (except for the DRM) game doesn't work if Ubisoft's servers are down, regardless of the status of your internet connection.</p><p>Blame it on bad server maintenance, pirate clans attacking the Ubisoft authentication/login servers, whatever... Since Ubisoft released Silent Hunter 5 and AC2, they've been having intermittent problems with their DRM. Subsim.com has quite a few threads on the issues.</p><p>So when folks pick up their AC2, can't play it weekend after weekend, I hope they'll remember it the next time they're staring at a "Permanent Internet Connection Required" sticker.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What everyone 's missing with that " Permanent Internet Connection Required " sticker : It does n't require a permanent connection to the internet .
It requires a permanent connection to Ubisoft 's servers.So your single player , offline ( except for the DRM ) game does n't work if Ubisoft 's servers are down , regardless of the status of your internet connection.Blame it on bad server maintenance , pirate clans attacking the Ubisoft authentication/login servers , whatever... Since Ubisoft released Silent Hunter 5 and AC2 , they 've been having intermittent problems with their DRM .
Subsim.com has quite a few threads on the issues.So when folks pick up their AC2 , ca n't play it weekend after weekend , I hope they 'll remember it the next time they 're staring at a " Permanent Internet Connection Required " sticker .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What everyone's missing with that "Permanent Internet Connection Required" sticker: It doesn't require a permanent connection to the internet.
It requires a permanent connection to Ubisoft's servers.So your single player, offline (except for the DRM) game doesn't work if Ubisoft's servers are down, regardless of the status of your internet connection.Blame it on bad server maintenance, pirate clans attacking the Ubisoft authentication/login servers, whatever... Since Ubisoft released Silent Hunter 5 and AC2, they've been having intermittent problems with their DRM.
Subsim.com has quite a few threads on the issues.So when folks pick up their AC2, can't play it weekend after weekend, I hope they'll remember it the next time they're staring at a "Permanent Internet Connection Required" sticker.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31524908</id>
	<title>DRM requiring internet = no, unless good reason</title>
	<author>Teunis</author>
	<datestamp>1268937060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unless a game play requires internet access, I will not purchase a game that requires me to ever be online.  I generally won't buy any game that has DRM in any event although I'll mostly ignore it with the playstation-series.  (I have one game with broken DRM that refuses to play on any legal playstation-type platform but will work fine if ripped and played in an emulator: "Legend of Dragoon")<br><br>I don't find there's any reason for DRM beyond publishers being arses.   My study of sales history hasn't shown any real difference between DRM/no DRM in game sales except where DRM became inconveniencing for users causing drops of sales.   This is merely a "casual research" though so I've no real references beyond it being an industry I wouldn't mind working within.<br><br>I will toss out though that if a company is criminalizing its customers (DRM assumes customers are guilty - and I'll include encoding of DVDs in that) - there's something deeply wrong in how a company is doing business.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless a game play requires internet access , I will not purchase a game that requires me to ever be online .
I generally wo n't buy any game that has DRM in any event although I 'll mostly ignore it with the playstation-series .
( I have one game with broken DRM that refuses to play on any legal playstation-type platform but will work fine if ripped and played in an emulator : " Legend of Dragoon " ) I do n't find there 's any reason for DRM beyond publishers being arses .
My study of sales history has n't shown any real difference between DRM/no DRM in game sales except where DRM became inconveniencing for users causing drops of sales .
This is merely a " casual research " though so I 've no real references beyond it being an industry I would n't mind working within.I will toss out though that if a company is criminalizing its customers ( DRM assumes customers are guilty - and I 'll include encoding of DVDs in that ) - there 's something deeply wrong in how a company is doing business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless a game play requires internet access, I will not purchase a game that requires me to ever be online.
I generally won't buy any game that has DRM in any event although I'll mostly ignore it with the playstation-series.
(I have one game with broken DRM that refuses to play on any legal playstation-type platform but will work fine if ripped and played in an emulator: "Legend of Dragoon")I don't find there's any reason for DRM beyond publishers being arses.
My study of sales history hasn't shown any real difference between DRM/no DRM in game sales except where DRM became inconveniencing for users causing drops of sales.
This is merely a "casual research" though so I've no real references beyond it being an industry I wouldn't mind working within.I will toss out though that if a company is criminalizing its customers (DRM assumes customers are guilty - and I'll include encoding of DVDs in that) - there's something deeply wrong in how a company is doing business.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521696</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268921760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not a life-or-death issue, but it's still important to me.
</p><p>In the end, we are all getting a shitty deal here. The games are still very expensive, and yet we are only "renting" them. The publisher can pull the plug whenever, and we can't resell them. The <i>cost</i> is the same as last year's games, but the <i>value</i> is less.
</p><p>I have no reason to accept such a crap deal. If your man in the supermarket is happy to be ripped off by Ubisoft, then all I can say is, "a fool and his money are soon parted".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not a life-or-death issue , but it 's still important to me .
In the end , we are all getting a shitty deal here .
The games are still very expensive , and yet we are only " renting " them .
The publisher can pull the plug whenever , and we ca n't resell them .
The cost is the same as last year 's games , but the value is less .
I have no reason to accept such a crap deal .
If your man in the supermarket is happy to be ripped off by Ubisoft , then all I can say is , " a fool and his money are soon parted " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not a life-or-death issue, but it's still important to me.
In the end, we are all getting a shitty deal here.
The games are still very expensive, and yet we are only "renting" them.
The publisher can pull the plug whenever, and we can't resell them.
The cost is the same as last year's games, but the value is less.
I have no reason to accept such a crap deal.
If your man in the supermarket is happy to be ripped off by Ubisoft, then all I can say is, "a fool and his money are soon parted".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520590</id>
	<title>Mixed feelings...</title>
	<author>cbope</author>
	<datestamp>1268912220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, removing a bad DRM from a game X weeks after release is at least an improvement over not removing it at all. Maybe it gives the publisher a warm fuzzy feeling that they are fighting piracy at release. Although we all know the reality that the game is often cracked within hours of release and in some cases it's cracked before release.</p><p>But from a customer perspective, I still feel like I'm getting screwed by the publisher if I go out and buy a new game shortly after release. Consider the following questions:</p><p>1. If I wait X weeks until they remove the DRM, why should I \_need\_ to patch my game to remove the DRM.<br>2. Why is the DRM even there to begin with? Does it really do any good?<br>3. Referring to question 1, how many Joe Sixpack's patch their games at all, unless the game goes online and checks routinely?<br>4. Why am I buying intentionally defective goods?<br>5. How much extra cost goes into implementing, testing and supporting the DRM? This number has got to be huge for the publishers. Not to mention the licensing cost the publisher has to pay to the DRM licensor.</p><p>On principle, I am still strongly against invasive DRM. Assassin's Creed 2 and future Ubisoft titles are on my do-not-buy list thanks to their draconian, invasive DRM. I will not download cracked versions of these games either, I will just not play them. Until the publishers wise up and realize they are only shooting themselves in the foot, I will not buy their games. Here is my list of unacceptable practices:</p><p>- game requires activation over the internet<br>- single-player and non-online games that require an internet connection to run<br>- games that can only save to online game servers operated by the publisher<br>- games that cannot be played in 5 years because they depend on some online service/server that has been taken offline by the publisher<br>- games that limit the number of installations<br>- games that check their activation status periodically<br>- games that cannot be installed to more than one PC (not equal to running them at the same time)<br>- games that are locked-down to the hardware signature on which they were originally installed<br>- installs any hidden services, software or devices in my system with or without my explicit authorization (this includes Starforce and SecuROM)</p><p>My list of acceptable practices:</p><p>- basic disc checks, or<br>- Steam-like content delivery services, which can be used in offline mode, do not limit number of installs and do not require an internet connection except during installation, etc.</p><p>However, combining the above 2 practices is unacceptable. There are probably few if any new commercial games anymore that meet my requirements. Have I bought games which violate some of my unacceptable practices; Yes, unfortunately. I'm afraid there is no easy answer or solution to the problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not sure how I feel about this .
On the one hand , removing a bad DRM from a game X weeks after release is at least an improvement over not removing it at all .
Maybe it gives the publisher a warm fuzzy feeling that they are fighting piracy at release .
Although we all know the reality that the game is often cracked within hours of release and in some cases it 's cracked before release.But from a customer perspective , I still feel like I 'm getting screwed by the publisher if I go out and buy a new game shortly after release .
Consider the following questions : 1 .
If I wait X weeks until they remove the DRM , why should I \ _need \ _ to patch my game to remove the DRM.2 .
Why is the DRM even there to begin with ?
Does it really do any good ? 3 .
Referring to question 1 , how many Joe Sixpack 's patch their games at all , unless the game goes online and checks routinely ? 4 .
Why am I buying intentionally defective goods ? 5 .
How much extra cost goes into implementing , testing and supporting the DRM ?
This number has got to be huge for the publishers .
Not to mention the licensing cost the publisher has to pay to the DRM licensor.On principle , I am still strongly against invasive DRM .
Assassin 's Creed 2 and future Ubisoft titles are on my do-not-buy list thanks to their draconian , invasive DRM .
I will not download cracked versions of these games either , I will just not play them .
Until the publishers wise up and realize they are only shooting themselves in the foot , I will not buy their games .
Here is my list of unacceptable practices : - game requires activation over the internet- single-player and non-online games that require an internet connection to run- games that can only save to online game servers operated by the publisher- games that can not be played in 5 years because they depend on some online service/server that has been taken offline by the publisher- games that limit the number of installations- games that check their activation status periodically- games that can not be installed to more than one PC ( not equal to running them at the same time ) - games that are locked-down to the hardware signature on which they were originally installed- installs any hidden services , software or devices in my system with or without my explicit authorization ( this includes Starforce and SecuROM ) My list of acceptable practices : - basic disc checks , or- Steam-like content delivery services , which can be used in offline mode , do not limit number of installs and do not require an internet connection except during installation , etc.However , combining the above 2 practices is unacceptable .
There are probably few if any new commercial games anymore that meet my requirements .
Have I bought games which violate some of my unacceptable practices ; Yes , unfortunately .
I 'm afraid there is no easy answer or solution to the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not sure how I feel about this.
On the one hand, removing a bad DRM from a game X weeks after release is at least an improvement over not removing it at all.
Maybe it gives the publisher a warm fuzzy feeling that they are fighting piracy at release.
Although we all know the reality that the game is often cracked within hours of release and in some cases it's cracked before release.But from a customer perspective, I still feel like I'm getting screwed by the publisher if I go out and buy a new game shortly after release.
Consider the following questions:1.
If I wait X weeks until they remove the DRM, why should I \_need\_ to patch my game to remove the DRM.2.
Why is the DRM even there to begin with?
Does it really do any good?3.
Referring to question 1, how many Joe Sixpack's patch their games at all, unless the game goes online and checks routinely?4.
Why am I buying intentionally defective goods?5.
How much extra cost goes into implementing, testing and supporting the DRM?
This number has got to be huge for the publishers.
Not to mention the licensing cost the publisher has to pay to the DRM licensor.On principle, I am still strongly against invasive DRM.
Assassin's Creed 2 and future Ubisoft titles are on my do-not-buy list thanks to their draconian, invasive DRM.
I will not download cracked versions of these games either, I will just not play them.
Until the publishers wise up and realize they are only shooting themselves in the foot, I will not buy their games.
Here is my list of unacceptable practices:- game requires activation over the internet- single-player and non-online games that require an internet connection to run- games that can only save to online game servers operated by the publisher- games that cannot be played in 5 years because they depend on some online service/server that has been taken offline by the publisher- games that limit the number of installations- games that check their activation status periodically- games that cannot be installed to more than one PC (not equal to running them at the same time)- games that are locked-down to the hardware signature on which they were originally installed- installs any hidden services, software or devices in my system with or without my explicit authorization (this includes Starforce and SecuROM)My list of acceptable practices:- basic disc checks, or- Steam-like content delivery services, which can be used in offline mode, do not limit number of installs and do not require an internet connection except during installation, etc.However, combining the above 2 practices is unacceptable.
There are probably few if any new commercial games anymore that meet my requirements.
Have I bought games which violate some of my unacceptable practices; Yes, unfortunately.
I'm afraid there is no easy answer or solution to the problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31522380</id>
	<title>Re:No. It Is Far Too Pervasive.</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1268925060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In my unfortunate above example, DRM is unavoidable. I couldn't "wait" that out. I couldn't watch streaming media on my game station.</p></div><p>Nonsense. You could indeed have waited that out. You could be using a hacked $50 Xbox to play the last generation's games, while using XBMC to stream media to your TV. The Xbox does 1080i over component so it's really not that bad. Meanwhile, you wait for the DRM to be defeated on the 360 so that you can run your own streaming software which can talk to an XBMSP server (let alone a SMB server) so that you don't need to run the Zune software. Meanwhile you use the $100 Netflix streaming box to watch Netflix on the same TV. It's still cheaper than a 360, and cheaper than the eventual price break on the 360. You're an impatient early adopter (from the viewpoint of outwaiting DRM) and you're paying the price.</p><p>Mind you, I'm in the same situation, except that I kept my Xbox so I can stream to it, and I don't expect my 360 to be a media player. It has a shit interface anyway, so why would I want to use it? Also cheaper than buying a 360 would have been buying an Aspire Revo, but those didn't exist when I got my 360 anyway.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my unfortunate above example , DRM is unavoidable .
I could n't " wait " that out .
I could n't watch streaming media on my game station.Nonsense .
You could indeed have waited that out .
You could be using a hacked $ 50 Xbox to play the last generation 's games , while using XBMC to stream media to your TV .
The Xbox does 1080i over component so it 's really not that bad .
Meanwhile , you wait for the DRM to be defeated on the 360 so that you can run your own streaming software which can talk to an XBMSP server ( let alone a SMB server ) so that you do n't need to run the Zune software .
Meanwhile you use the $ 100 Netflix streaming box to watch Netflix on the same TV .
It 's still cheaper than a 360 , and cheaper than the eventual price break on the 360 .
You 're an impatient early adopter ( from the viewpoint of outwaiting DRM ) and you 're paying the price.Mind you , I 'm in the same situation , except that I kept my Xbox so I can stream to it , and I do n't expect my 360 to be a media player .
It has a shit interface anyway , so why would I want to use it ?
Also cheaper than buying a 360 would have been buying an Aspire Revo , but those did n't exist when I got my 360 anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my unfortunate above example, DRM is unavoidable.
I couldn't "wait" that out.
I couldn't watch streaming media on my game station.Nonsense.
You could indeed have waited that out.
You could be using a hacked $50 Xbox to play the last generation's games, while using XBMC to stream media to your TV.
The Xbox does 1080i over component so it's really not that bad.
Meanwhile, you wait for the DRM to be defeated on the 360 so that you can run your own streaming software which can talk to an XBMSP server (let alone a SMB server) so that you don't need to run the Zune software.
Meanwhile you use the $100 Netflix streaming box to watch Netflix on the same TV.
It's still cheaper than a 360, and cheaper than the eventual price break on the 360.
You're an impatient early adopter (from the viewpoint of outwaiting DRM) and you're paying the price.Mind you, I'm in the same situation, except that I kept my Xbox so I can stream to it, and I don't expect my 360 to be a media player.
It has a shit interface anyway, so why would I want to use it?
Also cheaper than buying a 360 would have been buying an Aspire Revo, but those didn't exist when I got my 360 anyway.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521514</id>
	<title>Re:Who's blaming who here?</title>
	<author>purpledinoz</author>
	<datestamp>1268920680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I fully welcome the publisher's threat to stop making PC games. It's an empty threat. Games will always be made for PC, as long as they exist.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I fully welcome the publisher 's threat to stop making PC games .
It 's an empty threat .
Games will always be made for PC , as long as they exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I fully welcome the publisher's threat to stop making PC games.
It's an empty threat.
Games will always be made for PC, as long as they exist.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520394</id>
	<title>How about an escrow system?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268909940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about an escrow system where I can pay my money for the game, but don't receive it until the DRM is removed? And if the price drops in the meantime, I get a refund. Or if I decide to cancel, I get a full refund. That way, the developer will see that there are gamers out there wanting to put money in their hands for a legitimate copy of the game, but unwilling to put up with the DRM.</p><p>In the meantime, I can download the cracked version...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about an escrow system where I can pay my money for the game , but do n't receive it until the DRM is removed ?
And if the price drops in the meantime , I get a refund .
Or if I decide to cancel , I get a full refund .
That way , the developer will see that there are gamers out there wanting to put money in their hands for a legitimate copy of the game , but unwilling to put up with the DRM.In the meantime , I can download the cracked version... : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about an escrow system where I can pay my money for the game, but don't receive it until the DRM is removed?
And if the price drops in the meantime, I get a refund.
Or if I decide to cancel, I get a full refund.
That way, the developer will see that there are gamers out there wanting to put money in their hands for a legitimate copy of the game, but unwilling to put up with the DRM.In the meantime, I can download the cracked version... :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521856</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>IBBoard</author>
	<datestamp>1268922540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But Assassin's Creed 2 doesn't have a need for a CD, so no-CD cracks won't work. And Ubisoft said that their new "always online" DRM is proof against anything, so there's not going to be a "no-Internet" crack and even the 'real' gamers will be stuck with it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p><p>Oh, <a href="http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/03/05/027258/Ubisofts-New-DRM-Cracked-In-One-Day" title="slashdot.org">hang on</a> [slashdot.org]...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But Assassin 's Creed 2 does n't have a need for a CD , so no-CD cracks wo n't work .
And Ubisoft said that their new " always online " DRM is proof against anything , so there 's not going to be a " no-Internet " crack and even the 'real ' gamers will be stuck with it : ( Oh , hang on [ slashdot.org ] .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But Assassin's Creed 2 doesn't have a need for a CD, so no-CD cracks won't work.
And Ubisoft said that their new "always online" DRM is proof against anything, so there's not going to be a "no-Internet" crack and even the 'real' gamers will be stuck with it :(Oh, hang on [slashdot.org]...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521356</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520782</id>
	<title>Relic Entertainment</title>
	<author>IBBoard</author>
	<datestamp>1268914440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It generally took a while, but it was always one of the good things with some of the patches from Relic Entertainment (creators of Dawn of War). Dawn of War and its expansions were all DRM protected (although I think each was broken <i>before</i> release) but after a while one of their patches removed the DRM. Some companies would keep it on indefinitely, but at least some get it half-right and remove it in the end.</p><p>The bad thing about that DRM was that it was the <i>only</i> thing stopping the game running fine in Wine. The demo (even the last expansion) worked fine, but the game then failed because of the DRM. Granted, Linux isn't a supported platform, but it is technically sufficient for the game, just not for the DRM (which is all a "treat your customers as criminals" thing anyway).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It generally took a while , but it was always one of the good things with some of the patches from Relic Entertainment ( creators of Dawn of War ) .
Dawn of War and its expansions were all DRM protected ( although I think each was broken before release ) but after a while one of their patches removed the DRM .
Some companies would keep it on indefinitely , but at least some get it half-right and remove it in the end.The bad thing about that DRM was that it was the only thing stopping the game running fine in Wine .
The demo ( even the last expansion ) worked fine , but the game then failed because of the DRM .
Granted , Linux is n't a supported platform , but it is technically sufficient for the game , just not for the DRM ( which is all a " treat your customers as criminals " thing anyway ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It generally took a while, but it was always one of the good things with some of the patches from Relic Entertainment (creators of Dawn of War).
Dawn of War and its expansions were all DRM protected (although I think each was broken before release) but after a while one of their patches removed the DRM.
Some companies would keep it on indefinitely, but at least some get it half-right and remove it in the end.The bad thing about that DRM was that it was the only thing stopping the game running fine in Wine.
The demo (even the last expansion) worked fine, but the game then failed because of the DRM.
Granted, Linux isn't a supported platform, but it is technically sufficient for the game, just not for the DRM (which is all a "treat your customers as criminals" thing anyway).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520648</id>
	<title>Re:No. It Is Far Too Pervasive.</title>
	<author>delinear</author>
	<datestamp>1268912880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I totally agree we should complain more when stuff doesn't work, but good luck proving which bit of software/hardware was at fault in GP's case to the checkout monkey at your local media store. The interactions between all these things are so baffling to the average user (and even the not so average user with specialist knowledge) that they've got very little chance of getting their money back, let alone dealing with stores which have a no returns policy for PC software, etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I totally agree we should complain more when stuff does n't work , but good luck proving which bit of software/hardware was at fault in GP 's case to the checkout monkey at your local media store .
The interactions between all these things are so baffling to the average user ( and even the not so average user with specialist knowledge ) that they 've got very little chance of getting their money back , let alone dealing with stores which have a no returns policy for PC software , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I totally agree we should complain more when stuff doesn't work, but good luck proving which bit of software/hardware was at fault in GP's case to the checkout monkey at your local media store.
The interactions between all these things are so baffling to the average user (and even the not so average user with specialist knowledge) that they've got very little chance of getting their money back, let alone dealing with stores which have a no returns policy for PC software, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520580</id>
	<title>The point</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268912160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The funny part is, at the end of the day DRM has not yet actually *stopped* any piracy from happening. Some games are harder to crack than others, but even then the costs of doing so do not rank in the millions of dollars. Money spent on DRM should instead go to subsidising distributers to make the game cheaper.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The funny part is , at the end of the day DRM has not yet actually * stopped * any piracy from happening .
Some games are harder to crack than others , but even then the costs of doing so do not rank in the millions of dollars .
Money spent on DRM should instead go to subsidising distributers to make the game cheaper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The funny part is, at the end of the day DRM has not yet actually *stopped* any piracy from happening.
Some games are harder to crack than others, but even then the costs of doing so do not rank in the millions of dollars.
Money spent on DRM should instead go to subsidising distributers to make the game cheaper.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31522550</id>
	<title>Re:Yes</title>
	<author>Abcd1234</author>
	<datestamp>1268925900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Waiting before buying games has one big drawback: you're out of synch with the rest of the market.</i></p><p>Uhh... how is not being in "synch [sic] with the rest of the market" a drawback?  If you ask me, insisting on buying the latest, greatest game the minute it comes out is for suckers and fanbois.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Waiting before buying games has one big drawback : you 're out of synch with the rest of the market.Uhh... how is not being in " synch [ sic ] with the rest of the market " a drawback ?
If you ask me , insisting on buying the latest , greatest game the minute it comes out is for suckers and fanbois .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Waiting before buying games has one big drawback: you're out of synch with the rest of the market.Uhh... how is not being in "synch [sic] with the rest of the market" a drawback?
If you ask me, insisting on buying the latest, greatest game the minute it comes out is for suckers and fanbois.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31530228</id>
	<title>Re:DRM On Games Will Stay...</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1268912640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Depends on the company.   Bethesda isn't really known for their ability to fix bugs.  They make huge, open worlds that are pretty amazing, but then largely rely on the community to fill in the gaps.  <br> <br>I don't really think that has anything to do with the DRM it uses.  A game company like Blizzard wouldn't have those issues (at least for a single player game, MMOs are a different beast).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Depends on the company .
Bethesda is n't really known for their ability to fix bugs .
They make huge , open worlds that are pretty amazing , but then largely rely on the community to fill in the gaps .
I do n't really think that has anything to do with the DRM it uses .
A game company like Blizzard would n't have those issues ( at least for a single player game , MMOs are a different beast ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Depends on the company.
Bethesda isn't really known for their ability to fix bugs.
They make huge, open worlds that are pretty amazing, but then largely rely on the community to fill in the gaps.
I don't really think that has anything to do with the DRM it uses.
A game company like Blizzard wouldn't have those issues (at least for a single player game, MMOs are a different beast).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520388</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520660</id>
	<title>Never needed it meself</title>
	<author>CiderJack</author>
	<datestamp>1268913000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do not buy games. Period. I don't pirate them either.</p><p>Plenty of free games out there! Sometimes free demos are enough for games like halo, half-life 2, (sorry if I'm talking about old demos, I don't even bother with most new games anymore because even the demos are DRM'd up the wazoo). Freeplay MMOs like Runes of Magic and Allods keep me pretty well entertained after serious pointless grinding on an MMO like Anarchy Online. However! The point being is they are not only free of DRM they are free of cash outlay! No way am I about to risk my system with some DRM'd game that I may or may not like and risk my whole system on it. And pay cash for it beforehand.</p><p>The whole commercial game industry (well most of it anyway) is snake oil sales. They have quickly reached a point just slightly better than used car salesmen or the riaa. Feck it, stick to (real) indy games and/or play only the free games. If they lower the DRM bar later have we won? No, the game is still full of DRM bullshyte.</p><p>Anyway, apologies for the ramble. I hope you get what I'm after here (and no I'm not new here, but damn I bet any replies will make me feel like it)...</p><p>Soooo many free games to explore out there, I don't get why people bother with DRM shyte. Keep up with the Joneses? Not if it means compromising my system<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do not buy games .
Period. I do n't pirate them either.Plenty of free games out there !
Sometimes free demos are enough for games like halo , half-life 2 , ( sorry if I 'm talking about old demos , I do n't even bother with most new games anymore because even the demos are DRM 'd up the wazoo ) .
Freeplay MMOs like Runes of Magic and Allods keep me pretty well entertained after serious pointless grinding on an MMO like Anarchy Online .
However ! The point being is they are not only free of DRM they are free of cash outlay !
No way am I about to risk my system with some DRM 'd game that I may or may not like and risk my whole system on it .
And pay cash for it beforehand.The whole commercial game industry ( well most of it anyway ) is snake oil sales .
They have quickly reached a point just slightly better than used car salesmen or the riaa .
Feck it , stick to ( real ) indy games and/or play only the free games .
If they lower the DRM bar later have we won ?
No , the game is still full of DRM bullshyte.Anyway , apologies for the ramble .
I hope you get what I 'm after here ( and no I 'm not new here , but damn I bet any replies will make me feel like it ) ...Soooo many free games to explore out there , I do n't get why people bother with DRM shyte .
Keep up with the Joneses ?
Not if it means compromising my system : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do not buy games.
Period. I don't pirate them either.Plenty of free games out there!
Sometimes free demos are enough for games like halo, half-life 2, (sorry if I'm talking about old demos, I don't even bother with most new games anymore because even the demos are DRM'd up the wazoo).
Freeplay MMOs like Runes of Magic and Allods keep me pretty well entertained after serious pointless grinding on an MMO like Anarchy Online.
However! The point being is they are not only free of DRM they are free of cash outlay!
No way am I about to risk my system with some DRM'd game that I may or may not like and risk my whole system on it.
And pay cash for it beforehand.The whole commercial game industry (well most of it anyway) is snake oil sales.
They have quickly reached a point just slightly better than used car salesmen or the riaa.
Feck it, stick to (real) indy games and/or play only the free games.
If they lower the DRM bar later have we won?
No, the game is still full of DRM bullshyte.Anyway, apologies for the ramble.
I hope you get what I'm after here (and no I'm not new here, but damn I bet any replies will make me feel like it)...Soooo many free games to explore out there, I don't get why people bother with DRM shyte.
Keep up with the Joneses?
Not if it means compromising my system :P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31523190</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268928840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>You should have shot him.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You should have shot him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You should have shot him.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520948</id>
	<title>No, they expect people to pay!</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1268916960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I have a masters in computer science. And this is the shit they expect your regular consumer to figure out.</p></div><p>No!  An <em>emphatic</em> no!</p><p>They don't expect regular people to figure this shit out.  They expect people to become annoyed, give up and buy more of their stuff, because paying more money "makes the annoy go away".</p><p>That of course just "a side effect" of the battle against those evil pirates whom the good regular customers should blame for the rising prices.</p><p>(... My ass!)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a masters in computer science .
And this is the shit they expect your regular consumer to figure out.No !
An emphatic no ! They do n't expect regular people to figure this shit out .
They expect people to become annoyed , give up and buy more of their stuff , because paying more money " makes the annoy go away " .That of course just " a side effect " of the battle against those evil pirates whom the good regular customers should blame for the rising prices. ( .. .
My ass !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a masters in computer science.
And this is the shit they expect your regular consumer to figure out.No!
An emphatic no!They don't expect regular people to figure this shit out.
They expect people to become annoyed, give up and buy more of their stuff, because paying more money "makes the annoy go away".That of course just "a side effect" of the battle against those evil pirates whom the good regular customers should blame for the rising prices.(...
My ass!
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520728</id>
	<title>Re:No. It Is Far Too Pervasive.</title>
	<author>Jaysyn</author>
	<datestamp>1268913900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why did you get a MP3 player that is encumbered with such shitty DRM?  I'm sure there are much more open devices out there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why did you get a MP3 player that is encumbered with such shitty DRM ?
I 'm sure there are much more open devices out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why did you get a MP3 player that is encumbered with such shitty DRM?
I'm sure there are much more open devices out there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520604</id>
	<title>That's strange</title>
	<author>Dunbal</author>
	<datestamp>1268912400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Early sales are often one of the big quantifiers in whether a studio will start working on a sequel</i></p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The author says this as if a sequel is a good thing. If it's true that all sequels are better than the original version, wouldn't the wise choice be to skip version 1 and buy the sequel?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Early sales are often one of the big quantifiers in whether a studio will start working on a sequel       The author says this as if a sequel is a good thing .
If it 's true that all sequels are better than the original version , would n't the wise choice be to skip version 1 and buy the sequel ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Early sales are often one of the big quantifiers in whether a studio will start working on a sequel
      The author says this as if a sequel is a good thing.
If it's true that all sequels are better than the original version, wouldn't the wise choice be to skip version 1 and buy the sequel?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520404</id>
	<title>Who's blaming who here?</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1268910180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hold on a second: Is that summary supposed to tell me "go buy the DRM infested crap or else publishers will stop making PC games"? How about NOT infesting it with "you are a criminal and if not, prove it" DRM that makes me NOT want to buy the game? I want the game at release. Hell, who doesn't? I also do not mind paying 50 bucks for it. Or 60, now that the Euro is getting weaker too. But I DO mind the infection of my machine with something of dubious quality that gives me no net benefit whatsoever. I'm not gonna bend over and pray they use a little lube this time.</p><p>And now I get told "if you don't bend over, they'll stop making games for you". Are you fuckin' kiddin' me? Make games that I want to buy and I'll buy them! Stardock is a good example. I don't care if they cost 20 bucks or 60 (ok, a bit, but it's certainly no showstopper for me), I'm not waiting for games to get to the bargain bin. I'm waiting for a game that doesn't ram stuff up my ass that I dunno where it's been before.</p><p>Prime example, R.U.S.E. It sure looked like a good candidate for my next RTS. I liked the beta. But, Ubi, sorry, no deal. Take out your "stay online to play single player" copy protection, I'll buy. Leave it in, I will not.</p><p>It is that easy.</p><p>So please don't try to guilt-trip me with the notion that if we don't swallow that crap they'll stop making games for PC gamers. If anyone is to blame for that, it's the idea that gamers are criminals. Unless they can prove themselves innocent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hold on a second : Is that summary supposed to tell me " go buy the DRM infested crap or else publishers will stop making PC games " ?
How about NOT infesting it with " you are a criminal and if not , prove it " DRM that makes me NOT want to buy the game ?
I want the game at release .
Hell , who does n't ?
I also do not mind paying 50 bucks for it .
Or 60 , now that the Euro is getting weaker too .
But I DO mind the infection of my machine with something of dubious quality that gives me no net benefit whatsoever .
I 'm not gon na bend over and pray they use a little lube this time.And now I get told " if you do n't bend over , they 'll stop making games for you " .
Are you fuckin ' kiddin ' me ?
Make games that I want to buy and I 'll buy them !
Stardock is a good example .
I do n't care if they cost 20 bucks or 60 ( ok , a bit , but it 's certainly no showstopper for me ) , I 'm not waiting for games to get to the bargain bin .
I 'm waiting for a game that does n't ram stuff up my ass that I dunno where it 's been before.Prime example , R.U.S.E .
It sure looked like a good candidate for my next RTS .
I liked the beta .
But , Ubi , sorry , no deal .
Take out your " stay online to play single player " copy protection , I 'll buy .
Leave it in , I will not.It is that easy.So please do n't try to guilt-trip me with the notion that if we do n't swallow that crap they 'll stop making games for PC gamers .
If anyone is to blame for that , it 's the idea that gamers are criminals .
Unless they can prove themselves innocent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hold on a second: Is that summary supposed to tell me "go buy the DRM infested crap or else publishers will stop making PC games"?
How about NOT infesting it with "you are a criminal and if not, prove it" DRM that makes me NOT want to buy the game?
I want the game at release.
Hell, who doesn't?
I also do not mind paying 50 bucks for it.
Or 60, now that the Euro is getting weaker too.
But I DO mind the infection of my machine with something of dubious quality that gives me no net benefit whatsoever.
I'm not gonna bend over and pray they use a little lube this time.And now I get told "if you don't bend over, they'll stop making games for you".
Are you fuckin' kiddin' me?
Make games that I want to buy and I'll buy them!
Stardock is a good example.
I don't care if they cost 20 bucks or 60 (ok, a bit, but it's certainly no showstopper for me), I'm not waiting for games to get to the bargain bin.
I'm waiting for a game that doesn't ram stuff up my ass that I dunno where it's been before.Prime example, R.U.S.E.
It sure looked like a good candidate for my next RTS.
I liked the beta.
But, Ubi, sorry, no deal.
Take out your "stay online to play single player" copy protection, I'll buy.
Leave it in, I will not.It is that easy.So please don't try to guilt-trip me with the notion that if we don't swallow that crap they'll stop making games for PC gamers.
If anyone is to blame for that, it's the idea that gamers are criminals.
Unless they can prove themselves innocent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521140</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268918220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><b>prag</b>-<b>mat</b>-<b>ic</b> <i>adjective</i><br><b>2<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:</b> relating to matters of fact or practical affairs often to the exclusion of intellectual or artistic matters : practical as opposed to idealistic </p><p>see also: apathetic</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>prag-mat-ic adjective2 : relating to matters of fact or practical affairs often to the exclusion of intellectual or artistic matters : practical as opposed to idealistic see also : apathetic</tokentext>
<sentencetext>prag-mat-ic adjective2 : relating to matters of fact or practical affairs often to the exclusion of intellectual or artistic matters : practical as opposed to idealistic see also: apathetic</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31522080</id>
	<title>Help me boycott DRM-crippled games</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1268923620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And if a lot more people completely boycots DRM-crippled software/games/music/movies</p></div><p>I'm willing to start doing this with a little help. First, what local multiplayer games (that is, not requiring two PCs for two players) aren't DRM-crippled?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And if a lot more people completely boycots DRM-crippled software/games/music/moviesI 'm willing to start doing this with a little help .
First , what local multiplayer games ( that is , not requiring two PCs for two players ) are n't DRM-crippled ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And if a lot more people completely boycots DRM-crippled software/games/music/moviesI'm willing to start doing this with a little help.
First, what local multiplayer games (that is, not requiring two PCs for two players) aren't DRM-crippled?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521636</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>Attila Dimedici</author>
	<datestamp>1268921400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Except that if he can't play this game the next time he can't get online and he needs something to do in the meantime, he will remember what you said (even if he doesn't remember when or where he heard it) and realize that Ubisoft did it to him on purpose. The thing is, the next time after that he goes to buy a game he will remember that he can't play Ubisoft games if he loses his Internet connection (even if they have abandoned said DRM by then) and will likely choose not to buy their next game. Of course, he may never have that problem so he will go on buying Ubisoft games, but a significant fraction of game buyers will and Ubisoft will lose customers that it will have trouble getting back.<br>
I do know that I tell my friends that Ubisoft games have "technical" problems (really obtrusive DRM). Those that are tech savvy ask what I mean and decide if that is a show stopper for themselves. Those that aren't keep that in the back of their minds and it influences whether or not they buy Ubisoft games (those that have known me the longest only very rarely buy a computer related product against my advice, they've been burned too often).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Except that if he ca n't play this game the next time he ca n't get online and he needs something to do in the meantime , he will remember what you said ( even if he does n't remember when or where he heard it ) and realize that Ubisoft did it to him on purpose .
The thing is , the next time after that he goes to buy a game he will remember that he ca n't play Ubisoft games if he loses his Internet connection ( even if they have abandoned said DRM by then ) and will likely choose not to buy their next game .
Of course , he may never have that problem so he will go on buying Ubisoft games , but a significant fraction of game buyers will and Ubisoft will lose customers that it will have trouble getting back .
I do know that I tell my friends that Ubisoft games have " technical " problems ( really obtrusive DRM ) .
Those that are tech savvy ask what I mean and decide if that is a show stopper for themselves .
Those that are n't keep that in the back of their minds and it influences whether or not they buy Ubisoft games ( those that have known me the longest only very rarely buy a computer related product against my advice , they 've been burned too often ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except that if he can't play this game the next time he can't get online and he needs something to do in the meantime, he will remember what you said (even if he doesn't remember when or where he heard it) and realize that Ubisoft did it to him on purpose.
The thing is, the next time after that he goes to buy a game he will remember that he can't play Ubisoft games if he loses his Internet connection (even if they have abandoned said DRM by then) and will likely choose not to buy their next game.
Of course, he may never have that problem so he will go on buying Ubisoft games, but a significant fraction of game buyers will and Ubisoft will lose customers that it will have trouble getting back.
I do know that I tell my friends that Ubisoft games have "technical" problems (really obtrusive DRM).
Those that are tech savvy ask what I mean and decide if that is a show stopper for themselves.
Those that aren't keep that in the back of their minds and it influences whether or not they buy Ubisoft games (those that have known me the longest only very rarely buy a computer related product against my advice, they've been burned too often).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31569102</id>
	<title>Whatever...</title>
	<author>cre\_slash</author>
	<datestamp>1269274560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have simply stopped considering buying games from the worst DRM'ers. EA is out. I was very curious about a few of their games, but due to their DRM i have simply settled with not playing their games.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have simply stopped considering buying games from the worst DRM'ers .
EA is out .
I was very curious about a few of their games , but due to their DRM i have simply settled with not playing their games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have simply stopped considering buying games from the worst DRM'ers.
EA is out.
I was very curious about a few of their games, but due to their DRM i have simply settled with not playing their games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31522198</id>
	<title>This software title is not in service</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1268924160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Waiting before buying games has one big drawback: you're out of synch with the rest of the market.</p></div><p>And watch the online multiplayer matchmaking servers be down permanently. PlayStation calls it DNAS error -103.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>lower price</p></div><p>Try finding a lower price for any major Super NES RPG nowadays. Often, just the cart without box and manual sells for as much on auctions nowadays as the entire package sold for when new. Even disc games like Rez have become collector's items in this sense.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>mature community/forum</p></div><p>Even if a matchmaking server is still running, it's hard to have fun when you go 0W 50L against the "mature community" because there aren't enough newbs on the server for the server to give you a comparable opponent.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>opportunity to try it at friends</p></div><p>The drawback here is that more and more games on every platform but Wii are switching to the system where each player in a multiplayer match has to buy his own copy.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Waiting before buying games has one big drawback : you 're out of synch with the rest of the market.And watch the online multiplayer matchmaking servers be down permanently .
PlayStation calls it DNAS error -103.lower priceTry finding a lower price for any major Super NES RPG nowadays .
Often , just the cart without box and manual sells for as much on auctions nowadays as the entire package sold for when new .
Even disc games like Rez have become collector 's items in this sense.mature community/forumEven if a matchmaking server is still running , it 's hard to have fun when you go 0W 50L against the " mature community " because there are n't enough newbs on the server for the server to give you a comparable opponent.opportunity to try it at friendsThe drawback here is that more and more games on every platform but Wii are switching to the system where each player in a multiplayer match has to buy his own copy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Waiting before buying games has one big drawback: you're out of synch with the rest of the market.And watch the online multiplayer matchmaking servers be down permanently.
PlayStation calls it DNAS error -103.lower priceTry finding a lower price for any major Super NES RPG nowadays.
Often, just the cart without box and manual sells for as much on auctions nowadays as the entire package sold for when new.
Even disc games like Rez have become collector's items in this sense.mature community/forumEven if a matchmaking server is still running, it's hard to have fun when you go 0W 50L against the "mature community" because there aren't enough newbs on the server for the server to give you a comparable opponent.opportunity to try it at friendsThe drawback here is that more and more games on every platform but Wii are switching to the system where each player in a multiplayer match has to buy his own copy.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521130</id>
	<title>Re:No. It Is Far Too Pervasive.</title>
	<author>Nyder</author>
	<datestamp>1268918160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a gamer and I don't have to deal with drm.</p><p>Same with my movies and music.</p><p>Why?</p><p>Because I have a brain and either don't buy crap with drm, or break the drm on it.</p><p>My games?  get cracked.<br>My music?  never.<br>My videos?  oh, hell no.</p><p>Granted I don't really buy new music anymore, but when I do, it's cd's.  drmless cd's.</p><p>DVD's, they get ripped.   now, though, I do like bluray movies, but hey, those get ripped too!</p><p>Of course, they say i'm a pirate and stealing from them, but the way I see it, they are dickwads and stealing from me.</p><p>Don't buy stuff with DRM.   if you want it, download it for free, but don't give the companies that are using DRM any money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a gamer and I do n't have to deal with drm.Same with my movies and music.Why ? Because I have a brain and either do n't buy crap with drm , or break the drm on it.My games ?
get cracked.My music ?
never.My videos ?
oh , hell no.Granted I do n't really buy new music anymore , but when I do , it 's cd 's .
drmless cd 's.DVD 's , they get ripped .
now , though , I do like bluray movies , but hey , those get ripped too ! Of course , they say i 'm a pirate and stealing from them , but the way I see it , they are dickwads and stealing from me.Do n't buy stuff with DRM .
if you want it , download it for free , but do n't give the companies that are using DRM any money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a gamer and I don't have to deal with drm.Same with my movies and music.Why?Because I have a brain and either don't buy crap with drm, or break the drm on it.My games?
get cracked.My music?
never.My videos?
oh, hell no.Granted I don't really buy new music anymore, but when I do, it's cd's.
drmless cd's.DVD's, they get ripped.
now, though, I do like bluray movies, but hey, those get ripped too!Of course, they say i'm a pirate and stealing from them, but the way I see it, they are dickwads and stealing from me.Don't buy stuff with DRM.
if you want it, download it for free, but don't give the companies that are using DRM any money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31527294</id>
	<title>Re:Commercial Linux Games</title>
	<author>Totenglocke</author>
	<datestamp>1268945220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I totally get your point, but I don't see why a game company can't write a game for linux and, just like how apt makes sure that you have dependencies installed or Windows programs make sure you have dependencies installed, do a simple check and if you don't have XYZ installed, simply go out and have the installer download it?</p><p>I think the bigger reasons for the lack of Linux games are 1) Windows 90\% market share and 2) the fact that most games use DirectX.  I'd love to see MS do some sort of system to port older versions of DirectX to OS X / Linux / Unix.  That way game companies could at least make *nix ports of a game that's a few years old and get the ball rolling.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I totally get your point , but I do n't see why a game company ca n't write a game for linux and , just like how apt makes sure that you have dependencies installed or Windows programs make sure you have dependencies installed , do a simple check and if you do n't have XYZ installed , simply go out and have the installer download it ? I think the bigger reasons for the lack of Linux games are 1 ) Windows 90 \ % market share and 2 ) the fact that most games use DirectX .
I 'd love to see MS do some sort of system to port older versions of DirectX to OS X / Linux / Unix .
That way game companies could at least make * nix ports of a game that 's a few years old and get the ball rolling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I totally get your point, but I don't see why a game company can't write a game for linux and, just like how apt makes sure that you have dependencies installed or Windows programs make sure you have dependencies installed, do a simple check and if you don't have XYZ installed, simply go out and have the installer download it?I think the bigger reasons for the lack of Linux games are 1) Windows 90\% market share and 2) the fact that most games use DirectX.
I'd love to see MS do some sort of system to port older versions of DirectX to OS X / Linux / Unix.
That way game companies could at least make *nix ports of a game that's a few years old and get the ball rolling.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521454</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520452</id>
	<title>Re:How about an escrow system?</title>
	<author>Tim C</author>
	<datestamp>1268910660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>if the price drops in the meantime, I get a refund</i></p><p>That's no different to just holding on to the cash yourself. It would send more of a message if you were willing to put your money in escrow to pay the full current retail price when the DRM is removed, even if the price subsequently drops. (As in, "I want the game, I want it at that price, but I do not want the DRM" as opposed to "I want the game, I do not want it at that price, I do not want the DRM")</p><p><i>In the meantime, I can download the cracked version...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</i></p><p>If you do, then realise that you are a part of the problem, as you are adding your voice to the "we need DRM to prevent piracy - just look how many illegal copies we've detected" argument.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if the price drops in the meantime , I get a refundThat 's no different to just holding on to the cash yourself .
It would send more of a message if you were willing to put your money in escrow to pay the full current retail price when the DRM is removed , even if the price subsequently drops .
( As in , " I want the game , I want it at that price , but I do not want the DRM " as opposed to " I want the game , I do not want it at that price , I do not want the DRM " ) In the meantime , I can download the cracked version... : ) If you do , then realise that you are a part of the problem , as you are adding your voice to the " we need DRM to prevent piracy - just look how many illegal copies we 've detected " argument .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if the price drops in the meantime, I get a refundThat's no different to just holding on to the cash yourself.
It would send more of a message if you were willing to put your money in escrow to pay the full current retail price when the DRM is removed, even if the price subsequently drops.
(As in, "I want the game, I want it at that price, but I do not want the DRM" as opposed to "I want the game, I do not want it at that price, I do not want the DRM")In the meantime, I can download the cracked version... :)If you do, then realise that you are a part of the problem, as you are adding your voice to the "we need DRM to prevent piracy - just look how many illegal copies we've detected" argument.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520780</id>
	<title>Nope</title>
	<author>GF678</author>
	<datestamp>1268914380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For every person who avoids purchasing a game with DRM, 10 more will buy the game because they are not aware of the DRM, do not consider the DRM to be significant enough to warrant avoiding the same, or simply don't give a shit anyway. Hence, a minority boycott does absolutely fuck-all to convince game publishers to change the status quo of crappy DRM strategies. It is the wider community's indifference which is giving publishers free reign to do what they like and continue it.</p><p>What you CAN do is stick to your principals. If you don't like the DRM, don't buy the game. Don't even pirate it. Stick to your principals if only so you can say you did so. It may not matter in the long run but at least your mind can be at rest that you aren't part of the problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For every person who avoids purchasing a game with DRM , 10 more will buy the game because they are not aware of the DRM , do not consider the DRM to be significant enough to warrant avoiding the same , or simply do n't give a shit anyway .
Hence , a minority boycott does absolutely fuck-all to convince game publishers to change the status quo of crappy DRM strategies .
It is the wider community 's indifference which is giving publishers free reign to do what they like and continue it.What you CAN do is stick to your principals .
If you do n't like the DRM , do n't buy the game .
Do n't even pirate it .
Stick to your principals if only so you can say you did so .
It may not matter in the long run but at least your mind can be at rest that you are n't part of the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For every person who avoids purchasing a game with DRM, 10 more will buy the game because they are not aware of the DRM, do not consider the DRM to be significant enough to warrant avoiding the same, or simply don't give a shit anyway.
Hence, a minority boycott does absolutely fuck-all to convince game publishers to change the status quo of crappy DRM strategies.
It is the wider community's indifference which is giving publishers free reign to do what they like and continue it.What you CAN do is stick to your principals.
If you don't like the DRM, don't buy the game.
Don't even pirate it.
Stick to your principals if only so you can say you did so.
It may not matter in the long run but at least your mind can be at rest that you aren't part of the problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31522654</id>
	<title>Re:Commercial Linux Games</title>
	<author>Abcd1234</author>
	<datestamp>1268926260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Incidentally, DRM and commercial control is one of the main reasons, I believe, that there are so few commercial games released for Linux.</i></p><p>Oooooh, so that's the reason!  It has absolutely nothing to do with the rather miniscule market size, the substantial cost of maintaining the port to service that tiny market, the cost of supporting myriad distributions, kernels, etc, the effort involved building in-house expertise in the platform, both for developers and support, etc?  It's just DRM that's the big stumbling block?</p><p>Well of course!  Why didn't *I* think of that??</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Incidentally , DRM and commercial control is one of the main reasons , I believe , that there are so few commercial games released for Linux.Oooooh , so that 's the reason !
It has absolutely nothing to do with the rather miniscule market size , the substantial cost of maintaining the port to service that tiny market , the cost of supporting myriad distributions , kernels , etc , the effort involved building in-house expertise in the platform , both for developers and support , etc ?
It 's just DRM that 's the big stumbling block ? Well of course !
Why did n't * I * think of that ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Incidentally, DRM and commercial control is one of the main reasons, I believe, that there are so few commercial games released for Linux.Oooooh, so that's the reason!
It has absolutely nothing to do with the rather miniscule market size, the substantial cost of maintaining the port to service that tiny market, the cost of supporting myriad distributions, kernels, etc, the effort involved building in-house expertise in the platform, both for developers and support, etc?
It's just DRM that's the big stumbling block?Well of course!
Why didn't *I* think of that?
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520498</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520724</id>
	<title>anachronism</title>
	<author>CiderJack</author>
	<datestamp>1268913840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone remember Chess? Go? Cribbage? Bridge? Risk? Tabletop D&amp;D? Monopoly for chrissakes? How about Mancala? Reversi? Pente? Dominoes? Darts? How about a friggin game of billiards/pool? Gin-Rummy anyone?</p><p>Oh right, the lack of DRM is what killed those games<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone remember Chess ?
Go ? Cribbage ?
Bridge ? Risk ?
Tabletop D&amp;D ?
Monopoly for chrissakes ?
How about Mancala ?
Reversi ? Pente ?
Dominoes ? Darts ?
How about a friggin game of billiards/pool ?
Gin-Rummy anyone ? Oh right , the lack of DRM is what killed those games : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone remember Chess?
Go? Cribbage?
Bridge? Risk?
Tabletop D&amp;D?
Monopoly for chrissakes?
How about Mancala?
Reversi? Pente?
Dominoes? Darts?
How about a friggin game of billiards/pool?
Gin-Rummy anyone?Oh right, the lack of DRM is what killed those games :P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31529100</id>
	<title>If people would stop buying the games</title>
	<author>thetoadwarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1268907600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The only way I think you can get through is to get people not to buy the game and explain why. As it is, you get people who don't know any better and therefore don't care or you get people pirating it which sends the message that people want the product and the publisher just needs to try harder to stop you from stealing.
<br> <br>
The only thing they understand is profits so if you get most people simply not buying they game because of the DRM it would have an effect.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only way I think you can get through is to get people not to buy the game and explain why .
As it is , you get people who do n't know any better and therefore do n't care or you get people pirating it which sends the message that people want the product and the publisher just needs to try harder to stop you from stealing .
The only thing they understand is profits so if you get most people simply not buying they game because of the DRM it would have an effect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only way I think you can get through is to get people not to buy the game and explain why.
As it is, you get people who don't know any better and therefore don't care or you get people pirating it which sends the message that people want the product and the publisher just needs to try harder to stop you from stealing.
The only thing they understand is profits so if you get most people simply not buying they game because of the DRM it would have an effect.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520560</id>
	<title>P2P killed the DRM star...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268911920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do not need patience I have peer 2 peer....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do not need patience I have peer 2 peer... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do not need patience I have peer 2 peer....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520494</id>
	<title>Not Patience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268911200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can fight DRM not with patience, but with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow\_Crash#Reason" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Reason</a> [wikipedia.org].</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can fight DRM not with patience , but with Reason [ wikipedia.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can fight DRM not with patience, but with Reason [wikipedia.org].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520602</id>
	<title>"Can you..."? Why the loser attitude?</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1268912400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps the brainwashing of the MAFIAA made you forget, but we started out as the dominant ones. That&rsquo;s why they came up with the whole DRM schemes in the first place.<br>And perhaps you noticed, that DRM <em>can not work</em> <em>by its very definition</em>. It&rsquo;s a physically impossible concept.</p><p>The whole reason they are getting so crazy, is because they are doomed to die, and they know it. And I&rsquo;m only talking about the publishers, that nobody needs anymore since the Internet replaced them. Not about the artists, who now see a glimmer of light of getting out of the nasty wrath of publisher contracts and terms.</p><p>We already won. We were always winning. That&rsquo;s the whole thing.<br>They would have to create a global totalitarian system to stop us from winning. Like ACTA + 1984.<br>And even when we ignore that that&rsquo;n not going to happen (ACTA is alreary revoked by most states)... it wouldn&rsquo;t be the first revolution where heads get cut off for freedom, now would it?</p><p>The can not win this one. So stop the loser attitude. Because in the wars of psychology and social engineering (which this one is), you usually get exactly what you prophecy to happen.<br>Think about how  you influence people, when you stand there on your soap box, and don&rsquo;t say &ldquo;Those crazy people have no chance. We laugh in their faces.&rdquo;, but instead ask in that suggestive way &ldquo;Oh god, how can we even possibly win that one? We&rsquo;re doomed! DOOOMED!!!&rdquo;.<br>Because the second one is what you&rsquo;re doing. And it&rsquo;s not cool!</p><p>So come on! Take off the reality distortion glasses of the MAFIAA, look at factual reality, and see that even according to their own predictions, their death struggle is over in about 5-7 years!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps the brainwashing of the MAFIAA made you forget , but we started out as the dominant ones .
That    s why they came up with the whole DRM schemes in the first place.And perhaps you noticed , that DRM can not work by its very definition .
It    s a physically impossible concept.The whole reason they are getting so crazy , is because they are doomed to die , and they know it .
And I    m only talking about the publishers , that nobody needs anymore since the Internet replaced them .
Not about the artists , who now see a glimmer of light of getting out of the nasty wrath of publisher contracts and terms.We already won .
We were always winning .
That    s the whole thing.They would have to create a global totalitarian system to stop us from winning .
Like ACTA + 1984.And even when we ignore that that    n not going to happen ( ACTA is alreary revoked by most states ) ... it wouldn    t be the first revolution where heads get cut off for freedom , now would it ? The can not win this one .
So stop the loser attitude .
Because in the wars of psychology and social engineering ( which this one is ) , you usually get exactly what you prophecy to happen.Think about how you influence people , when you stand there on your soap box , and don    t say    Those crazy people have no chance .
We laugh in their faces.    , but instead ask in that suggestive way    Oh god , how can we even possibly win that one ?
We    re doomed !
DOOOMED ! ! !    .Because the second one is what you    re doing .
And it    s not cool ! So come on !
Take off the reality distortion glasses of the MAFIAA , look at factual reality , and see that even according to their own predictions , their death struggle is over in about 5-7 years !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps the brainwashing of the MAFIAA made you forget, but we started out as the dominant ones.
That’s why they came up with the whole DRM schemes in the first place.And perhaps you noticed, that DRM can not work by its very definition.
It’s a physically impossible concept.The whole reason they are getting so crazy, is because they are doomed to die, and they know it.
And I’m only talking about the publishers, that nobody needs anymore since the Internet replaced them.
Not about the artists, who now see a glimmer of light of getting out of the nasty wrath of publisher contracts and terms.We already won.
We were always winning.
That’s the whole thing.They would have to create a global totalitarian system to stop us from winning.
Like ACTA + 1984.And even when we ignore that that’n not going to happen (ACTA is alreary revoked by most states)... it wouldn’t be the first revolution where heads get cut off for freedom, now would it?The can not win this one.
So stop the loser attitude.
Because in the wars of psychology and social engineering (which this one is), you usually get exactly what you prophecy to happen.Think about how  you influence people, when you stand there on your soap box, and don’t say “Those crazy people have no chance.
We laugh in their faces.”, but instead ask in that suggestive way “Oh god, how can we even possibly win that one?
We’re doomed!
DOOOMED!!!”.Because the second one is what you’re doing.
And it’s not cool!So come on!
Take off the reality distortion glasses of the MAFIAA, look at factual reality, and see that even according to their own predictions, their death struggle is over in about 5-7 years!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520402</id>
	<title>Re:No. It Is Far Too Pervasive.</title>
	<author>pandrijeczko</author>
	<datestamp>1268910180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>To the point of slowly migrating away from gaming. If you haven't had to tangle with DRM and you're a gamer, just wait.</i></p><p>But see, you've said it yourself - "slowly migrating away".</p><p>We're all of the same, we're all far too *PASSIVE* about this stuff, I am the same. What we should be doing is taking the stuff back to where we purchased it from and demanding a refund or that it's fixed immediately because it's not fit for purpose.</p><p>I really do not give a shit what games companies do to stop pirates copying their games - as long as it doesn't impact me as an honest gamer who buys all that he plays.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To the point of slowly migrating away from gaming .
If you have n't had to tangle with DRM and you 're a gamer , just wait.But see , you 've said it yourself - " slowly migrating away " .We 're all of the same , we 're all far too * PASSIVE * about this stuff , I am the same .
What we should be doing is taking the stuff back to where we purchased it from and demanding a refund or that it 's fixed immediately because it 's not fit for purpose.I really do not give a shit what games companies do to stop pirates copying their games - as long as it does n't impact me as an honest gamer who buys all that he plays .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To the point of slowly migrating away from gaming.
If you haven't had to tangle with DRM and you're a gamer, just wait.But see, you've said it yourself - "slowly migrating away".We're all of the same, we're all far too *PASSIVE* about this stuff, I am the same.
What we should be doing is taking the stuff back to where we purchased it from and demanding a refund or that it's fixed immediately because it's not fit for purpose.I really do not give a shit what games companies do to stop pirates copying their games - as long as it doesn't impact me as an honest gamer who buys all that he plays.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520416</id>
	<title>I fight with my wallet</title>
	<author>fearlezz</author>
	<datestamp>1268910300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And if a lot more people completely boycots DRM-crippled software/games/music/movies, vendors will be forced to stop using DRM.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And if a lot more people completely boycots DRM-crippled software/games/music/movies , vendors will be forced to stop using DRM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And if a lot more people completely boycots DRM-crippled software/games/music/movies, vendors will be forced to stop using DRM.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520498</id>
	<title>Commercial Linux Games</title>
	<author>pandrijeczko</author>
	<datestamp>1268911200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Incidentally, DRM and commercial control is one of the main reasons, I believe, that there are so few commercial games released for Linux.</p><p>If you're a Linux user running a Linux OS then you're probably a fairly savvy computer user, and you're running an open OS where, if something untoward is happening deep down in the OS, there's a chance you will notice it.</p><p>If you're running Windows or playing on a game console, there can be all sorts of checks and processes going on that you will never know about because your view of that system is restricted.</p><p>And, incidentally, that isn't a dig at Windows users or console users - I run Linux and XP, I also own a Wii - but I do believe there is probably some serious nasty stuff going on inside your machines that you don't know about with a lot of this game DRM stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Incidentally , DRM and commercial control is one of the main reasons , I believe , that there are so few commercial games released for Linux.If you 're a Linux user running a Linux OS then you 're probably a fairly savvy computer user , and you 're running an open OS where , if something untoward is happening deep down in the OS , there 's a chance you will notice it.If you 're running Windows or playing on a game console , there can be all sorts of checks and processes going on that you will never know about because your view of that system is restricted.And , incidentally , that is n't a dig at Windows users or console users - I run Linux and XP , I also own a Wii - but I do believe there is probably some serious nasty stuff going on inside your machines that you do n't know about with a lot of this game DRM stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Incidentally, DRM and commercial control is one of the main reasons, I believe, that there are so few commercial games released for Linux.If you're a Linux user running a Linux OS then you're probably a fairly savvy computer user, and you're running an open OS where, if something untoward is happening deep down in the OS, there's a chance you will notice it.If you're running Windows or playing on a game console, there can be all sorts of checks and processes going on that you will never know about because your view of that system is restricted.And, incidentally, that isn't a dig at Windows users or console users - I run Linux and XP, I also own a Wii - but I do believe there is probably some serious nasty stuff going on inside your machines that you don't know about with a lot of this game DRM stuff.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31526852</id>
	<title>DRM hates America</title>
	<author>fluffyq</author>
	<datestamp>1268943960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I&rsquo;ve been in the U.S. Army Infantry for a number of years and during my last deployment to Iraq a few of my buddies and I picked up Dawn of War II at one of the bigger COBs with the intent of setting up a LAN in our tent to unwind from the daily suck. We were furious when we discovered that our install disk only contained the Steam client and that you actually had to register and download the software from their servers.  A broadband connection to download a game we purchased three copies of retail? While we were wishing we might as well have been wished for a floor or an air conditioner that worked. We were happy to have electricity... in our tent.</p><p>We were forced to abandon Steam and their digital fascism in favor of older games that didn&rsquo;t discriminate against people who don&rsquo;t readily have access to broadband. For a lot of guys in my unit and other units I&rsquo;ve been in, mini-LAN parties are our primary source of entertainment anytime we can secure a reliable power source. These increasingly Orwellian systems of combating piracy aren&rsquo;t just an inconvenience for us, they are a showstopper. We simply can't do anything about it. Try as we might, we can&rsquo;t squeeze Wi-Fi out of a rock.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I    ve been in the U.S. Army Infantry for a number of years and during my last deployment to Iraq a few of my buddies and I picked up Dawn of War II at one of the bigger COBs with the intent of setting up a LAN in our tent to unwind from the daily suck .
We were furious when we discovered that our install disk only contained the Steam client and that you actually had to register and download the software from their servers .
A broadband connection to download a game we purchased three copies of retail ?
While we were wishing we might as well have been wished for a floor or an air conditioner that worked .
We were happy to have electricity... in our tent.We were forced to abandon Steam and their digital fascism in favor of older games that didn    t discriminate against people who don    t readily have access to broadband .
For a lot of guys in my unit and other units I    ve been in , mini-LAN parties are our primary source of entertainment anytime we can secure a reliable power source .
These increasingly Orwellian systems of combating piracy aren    t just an inconvenience for us , they are a showstopper .
We simply ca n't do anything about it .
Try as we might , we can    t squeeze Wi-Fi out of a rock .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I’ve been in the U.S. Army Infantry for a number of years and during my last deployment to Iraq a few of my buddies and I picked up Dawn of War II at one of the bigger COBs with the intent of setting up a LAN in our tent to unwind from the daily suck.
We were furious when we discovered that our install disk only contained the Steam client and that you actually had to register and download the software from their servers.
A broadband connection to download a game we purchased three copies of retail?
While we were wishing we might as well have been wished for a floor or an air conditioner that worked.
We were happy to have electricity... in our tent.We were forced to abandon Steam and their digital fascism in favor of older games that didn’t discriminate against people who don’t readily have access to broadband.
For a lot of guys in my unit and other units I’ve been in, mini-LAN parties are our primary source of entertainment anytime we can secure a reliable power source.
These increasingly Orwellian systems of combating piracy aren’t just an inconvenience for us, they are a showstopper.
We simply can't do anything about it.
Try as we might, we can’t squeeze Wi-Fi out of a rock.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520806</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>DrXym</author>
	<datestamp>1268914680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Therefore, it's very important to check the "Requirements" for a game before you buy, even if your PC will clearly be capable of running it. Respectable stores like Steam will warn you about the types of DRM used by the game in clear terms, and you can decide whether it's too much. This information isn't in large text in the centre of the screen as it should be ("Warning: SecuROM", "Danger - Game Published By Ubisoft") but it's there, and these days you must always check for it</i>
<p>
The problem with "respectable" stores like Steam is you get two doses of DRM - Steam's DRM and sometimes even more. Whether they so or not, it's still not an acceptable situation. The DRM in Steam might be relatively benign (at the moment), but it seems to work so I do not understand why publishers want to incur the expense of even more. But they do and so Steam users are rewarded with even more restrictions. Not only do Valve have you by the balls but the publisher too.
</p><p>
I'd add that even though Steam's DRM might be relatively benign now, but who's to say it has to stay that way? What if Valve decide they're going to start charging a buck per-download if you download a game more than 10 times, or if you want to download more than 60 days after purchase? Or if you install a game on more than 5 computers? Or premium online play? Or just any other crap they can concoct? The fact is that they are a benevolent dictator but all that could change in an instant. The tighter their grip becomes in the digital download space the more certain that changes will come and you can bet they won't all be for the good.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Therefore , it 's very important to check the " Requirements " for a game before you buy , even if your PC will clearly be capable of running it .
Respectable stores like Steam will warn you about the types of DRM used by the game in clear terms , and you can decide whether it 's too much .
This information is n't in large text in the centre of the screen as it should be ( " Warning : SecuROM " , " Danger - Game Published By Ubisoft " ) but it 's there , and these days you must always check for it The problem with " respectable " stores like Steam is you get two doses of DRM - Steam 's DRM and sometimes even more .
Whether they so or not , it 's still not an acceptable situation .
The DRM in Steam might be relatively benign ( at the moment ) , but it seems to work so I do not understand why publishers want to incur the expense of even more .
But they do and so Steam users are rewarded with even more restrictions .
Not only do Valve have you by the balls but the publisher too .
I 'd add that even though Steam 's DRM might be relatively benign now , but who 's to say it has to stay that way ?
What if Valve decide they 're going to start charging a buck per-download if you download a game more than 10 times , or if you want to download more than 60 days after purchase ?
Or if you install a game on more than 5 computers ?
Or premium online play ?
Or just any other crap they can concoct ?
The fact is that they are a benevolent dictator but all that could change in an instant .
The tighter their grip becomes in the digital download space the more certain that changes will come and you can bet they wo n't all be for the good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Therefore, it's very important to check the "Requirements" for a game before you buy, even if your PC will clearly be capable of running it.
Respectable stores like Steam will warn you about the types of DRM used by the game in clear terms, and you can decide whether it's too much.
This information isn't in large text in the centre of the screen as it should be ("Warning: SecuROM", "Danger - Game Published By Ubisoft") but it's there, and these days you must always check for it

The problem with "respectable" stores like Steam is you get two doses of DRM - Steam's DRM and sometimes even more.
Whether they so or not, it's still not an acceptable situation.
The DRM in Steam might be relatively benign (at the moment), but it seems to work so I do not understand why publishers want to incur the expense of even more.
But they do and so Steam users are rewarded with even more restrictions.
Not only do Valve have you by the balls but the publisher too.
I'd add that even though Steam's DRM might be relatively benign now, but who's to say it has to stay that way?
What if Valve decide they're going to start charging a buck per-download if you download a game more than 10 times, or if you want to download more than 60 days after purchase?
Or if you install a game on more than 5 computers?
Or premium online play?
Or just any other crap they can concoct?
The fact is that they are a benevolent dictator but all that could change in an instant.
The tighter their grip becomes in the digital download space the more certain that changes will come and you can bet they won't all be for the good.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520578</id>
	<title>Re:Who's blaming who here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268912100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your assuming that this is a closed ecosystem of gaming, ie that PC's are the only selling front and that these companies rely on PC Gamers to keep them afloat.  Want to guess where I'm heading with this?  If NOBODY purchased copies of ANY PC game within the first lets say, year, do you really think they would continue to make games for PC's or just say "Screw it" and focus on the console market?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your assuming that this is a closed ecosystem of gaming , ie that PC 's are the only selling front and that these companies rely on PC Gamers to keep them afloat .
Want to guess where I 'm heading with this ?
If NOBODY purchased copies of ANY PC game within the first lets say , year , do you really think they would continue to make games for PC 's or just say " Screw it " and focus on the console market ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your assuming that this is a closed ecosystem of gaming, ie that PC's are the only selling front and that these companies rely on PC Gamers to keep them afloat.
Want to guess where I'm heading with this?
If NOBODY purchased copies of ANY PC game within the first lets say, year, do you really think they would continue to make games for PC's or just say "Screw it" and focus on the console market?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521740</id>
	<title>Re:DRM On Games Will Stay...</title>
	<author>JasterBobaMereel</author>
	<datestamp>1268921940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>..they care about people buying their product</p><p>If DRM stops some people buying their game then they will balance this against the reduced piracy,  if the cost of people not buying outweighs the perceived cost of piracy then they will stop using DRM</p><p>This is why the music download industry no longer uses DRM<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... too many people where not downloading from sites with DRM,  or downloading less because of DRM, so they dropped it and sales went up....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>..they care about people buying their productIf DRM stops some people buying their game then they will balance this against the reduced piracy , if the cost of people not buying outweighs the perceived cost of piracy then they will stop using DRMThis is why the music download industry no longer uses DRM ... too many people where not downloading from sites with DRM , or downloading less because of DRM , so they dropped it and sales went up... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>..they care about people buying their productIf DRM stops some people buying their game then they will balance this against the reduced piracy,  if the cost of people not buying outweighs the perceived cost of piracy then they will stop using DRMThis is why the music download industry no longer uses DRM ... too many people where not downloading from sites with DRM,  or downloading less because of DRM, so they dropped it and sales went up....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520388</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520868</id>
	<title>Re:No. It Is Far Too Pervasive.</title>
	<author>rdnetto</author>
	<datestamp>1268915880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I feel for you, but I'd like to weigh in with my experiences using the 360 for media - I've found that it's generally pretty painless and works as expected (though it doesn't support MKV, which is disappointing). You occasionally have to manually add new files to the library, but that's it. The only difference is I used Vista/Win7, so support was built directly into Windows.<br>Also, I was under the impression that the recommended software for sharing media under XP was Windows Media Connect (<a href="http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/7/A/47AA030D-4070-4D2E-B1B8-1CF92CB4F29F/wmcsetup.exe" title="microsoft.com">DL</a> [microsoft.com], link courtesy of wikipedia). AFAIK it doesn't use any DRM.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I feel for you , but I 'd like to weigh in with my experiences using the 360 for media - I 've found that it 's generally pretty painless and works as expected ( though it does n't support MKV , which is disappointing ) .
You occasionally have to manually add new files to the library , but that 's it .
The only difference is I used Vista/Win7 , so support was built directly into Windows.Also , I was under the impression that the recommended software for sharing media under XP was Windows Media Connect ( DL [ microsoft.com ] , link courtesy of wikipedia ) .
AFAIK it does n't use any DRM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I feel for you, but I'd like to weigh in with my experiences using the 360 for media - I've found that it's generally pretty painless and works as expected (though it doesn't support MKV, which is disappointing).
You occasionally have to manually add new files to the library, but that's it.
The only difference is I used Vista/Win7, so support was built directly into Windows.Also, I was under the impression that the recommended software for sharing media under XP was Windows Media Connect (DL [microsoft.com], link courtesy of wikipedia).
AFAIK it doesn't use any DRM.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31524686</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1268936100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sadly, you missed the point.<br>A) Any decent modern game auto save, a lot. see torchlight.<br>B) the connection uses almost no bandwidth</p><p>The issue is consumer rights.<br>Right to resale, right to decide when and where to play, right to decide how to play.<br>The right to lay a game that doesn't cause excessive where on your equipment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sadly , you missed the point.A ) Any decent modern game auto save , a lot .
see torchlight.B ) the connection uses almost no bandwidthThe issue is consumer rights.Right to resale , right to decide when and where to play , right to decide how to play.The right to lay a game that does n't cause excessive where on your equipment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sadly, you missed the point.A) Any decent modern game auto save, a lot.
see torchlight.B) the connection uses almost no bandwidthThe issue is consumer rights.Right to resale, right to decide when and where to play, right to decide how to play.The right to lay a game that doesn't cause excessive where on your equipment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520334</id>
	<title>Battlefield Bad Company 2</title>
	<author>sopssa</author>
	<datestamp>1268908920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It doesn't need to be long time - this week EA removed SecuROM from Bad Company 2, only two weeks after release date. It's just the first sales and trying to make sure pirated version doesn't get out too early, even if that's not usually possible (wasn't now either). But EA has been really good at learning this, either they ship their game without any DRM or release it after a few weeks of first sales if pirated version is out already. As weird as it sounds to say this about EA, I wish Ubisoft and Activision would learn from them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It does n't need to be long time - this week EA removed SecuROM from Bad Company 2 , only two weeks after release date .
It 's just the first sales and trying to make sure pirated version does n't get out too early , even if that 's not usually possible ( was n't now either ) .
But EA has been really good at learning this , either they ship their game without any DRM or release it after a few weeks of first sales if pirated version is out already .
As weird as it sounds to say this about EA , I wish Ubisoft and Activision would learn from them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It doesn't need to be long time - this week EA removed SecuROM from Bad Company 2, only two weeks after release date.
It's just the first sales and trying to make sure pirated version doesn't get out too early, even if that's not usually possible (wasn't now either).
But EA has been really good at learning this, either they ship their game without any DRM or release it after a few weeks of first sales if pirated version is out already.
As weird as it sounds to say this about EA, I wish Ubisoft and Activision would learn from them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31529900</id>
	<title>Re:Battlefield Bad Company 2</title>
	<author>spire3661</author>
	<datestamp>1268910900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem is confidence. I have a PC version of Bioshock i bought day one. Is it still encumbered by 5 install limit?  How would i know unless i went and did research on a game i bought 3 years ago. Thats just retarded.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is confidence .
I have a PC version of Bioshock i bought day one .
Is it still encumbered by 5 install limit ?
How would i know unless i went and did research on a game i bought 3 years ago .
Thats just retarded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is confidence.
I have a PC version of Bioshock i bought day one.
Is it still encumbered by 5 install limit?
How would i know unless i went and did research on a game i bought 3 years ago.
Thats just retarded.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520334</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521104</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>sourcerror</author>
	<datestamp>1268918040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Surely you're aghast at the prospect of all of the bandwidth usage! The sheer audacity of UbiSoft for insisting that you're connected to the internet to play a single player game!</p><p>"No, not really. I have 30GB per month, I never use it."</p><p>Does it ever slow down or disconnect quickly when someone else in the house is downloading some music, or have to reboot your modem / router sometimes?</p></div><p>I wouldn't think it would use too much bandwidth, and makes only one connection. While bittorrent makes zillions of connections and uses lot of bandwidth. (I had to reboot a lot my router because of bittorrent, until changing firmware.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Surely you 're aghast at the prospect of all of the bandwidth usage !
The sheer audacity of UbiSoft for insisting that you 're connected to the internet to play a single player game !
" No , not really .
I have 30GB per month , I never use it .
" Does it ever slow down or disconnect quickly when someone else in the house is downloading some music , or have to reboot your modem / router sometimes ? I would n't think it would use too much bandwidth , and makes only one connection .
While bittorrent makes zillions of connections and uses lot of bandwidth .
( I had to reboot a lot my router because of bittorrent , until changing firmware .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surely you're aghast at the prospect of all of the bandwidth usage!
The sheer audacity of UbiSoft for insisting that you're connected to the internet to play a single player game!
"No, not really.
I have 30GB per month, I never use it.
"Does it ever slow down or disconnect quickly when someone else in the house is downloading some music, or have to reboot your modem / router sometimes?I wouldn't think it would use too much bandwidth, and makes only one connection.
While bittorrent makes zillions of connections and uses lot of bandwidth.
(I had to reboot a lot my router because of bittorrent, until changing firmware.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31523566</id>
	<title>Re:I fight with my wallet</title>
	<author>stretch0611</author>
	<datestamp>1268930760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree. There are a few places that sell games and advocate against DRM.</p><p>Even though I had bought every command and conquer title from the begining, I stopped after C&amp;C 3. I did not buy Red Alert 3 due to DRM and I will not buy C&amp;C 4 either.</p><p>Today my money goes mostly to Stardock (which does not have DRM) and GOG.com (Which has old games with the original DRM removed.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
There are a few places that sell games and advocate against DRM.Even though I had bought every command and conquer title from the begining , I stopped after C&amp;C 3 .
I did not buy Red Alert 3 due to DRM and I will not buy C&amp;C 4 either.Today my money goes mostly to Stardock ( which does not have DRM ) and GOG.com ( Which has old games with the original DRM removed .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
There are a few places that sell games and advocate against DRM.Even though I had bought every command and conquer title from the begining, I stopped after C&amp;C 3.
I did not buy Red Alert 3 due to DRM and I will not buy C&amp;C 4 either.Today my money goes mostly to Stardock (which does not have DRM) and GOG.com (Which has old games with the original DRM removed.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520866</id>
	<title>Yes</title>
	<author>obarthelemy</author>
	<datestamp>1268915820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's what I do. Waiting before buying games has one big drawback: you're out of synch with the rest of the market. And several advantages:<br>- less/no DRM<br>- lower price<br>- patches<br>- mature community/forum<br>- more feedback on how good the game is<br>- opportunity to try it at friends</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's what I do .
Waiting before buying games has one big drawback : you 're out of synch with the rest of the market .
And several advantages : - less/no DRM- lower price- patches- mature community/forum- more feedback on how good the game is- opportunity to try it at friends</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's what I do.
Waiting before buying games has one big drawback: you're out of synch with the rest of the market.
And several advantages:- less/no DRM- lower price- patches- mature community/forum- more feedback on how good the game is- opportunity to try it at friends</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521088</id>
	<title>Re:Battlefield Bad Company 2</title>
	<author>MemoryDragon</author>
	<datestamp>1268917920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes and EA also confirmed that the next C&amp;C title will have an Ubisoft like always on DRM scheme...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes and EA also confirmed that the next C&amp;C title will have an Ubisoft like always on DRM scheme.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes and EA also confirmed that the next C&amp;C title will have an Ubisoft like always on DRM scheme...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520334</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520692</id>
	<title>Re:Battlefield Bad Company 2</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268913360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pirating BFBC2 clearly won't hurt EA's income because it's a Multi-player FPS. On DRMs in complete "Off-line" games users and publishers have arguments, But you can't avoid the need of a legit key for a copy of a game(pirated or not) to play with in On-line games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pirating BFBC2 clearly wo n't hurt EA 's income because it 's a Multi-player FPS .
On DRMs in complete " Off-line " games users and publishers have arguments , But you ca n't avoid the need of a legit key for a copy of a game ( pirated or not ) to play with in On-line games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pirating BFBC2 clearly won't hurt EA's income because it's a Multi-player FPS.
On DRMs in complete "Off-line" games users and publishers have arguments, But you can't avoid the need of a legit key for a copy of a game(pirated or not) to play with in On-line games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520334</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31525048</id>
	<title>DRM needs to be talked about.</title>
	<author>unsigned integer</author>
	<datestamp>1268937600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Too many people ignore it or brush it off - until it directly effects them. I think the<br>news and game media has been letting us down. There should be a greater knowledge and<br>dicussion of DRM, but there isn't. Why is that? The only recent article that even<br>approached 'mainstream' was a CNN *Opinion* piece.</p><p>I know a lot of people read game reviews. We need to start including 'What DRM this game has'<br>in each and every review.</p><p>It needs to become part of the common vernacular and lingo so that people start understanding what it is,<br>what it does, and why they may want to include it as part of their purchasing decision. I don't think<br>there is a realization of consumer rights being infringed, abridged or otherwise impugned. I don't think<br>there is a realization of that fact that the game *just might not work* due to flawed or bad DRM<br>implementations.</p><p>This movement of knowledge has to reach a certain mass such that companies can make fiscal decisions based<br>on :</p><p>We lose X legitimate sales due to our DRM<br>We lose Y possible/maybe sales due to pirating.</p><p>Until X &gt; (Y * (conversion of pirate to purchaser - certainly not 1:1)), this will only get worse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Too many people ignore it or brush it off - until it directly effects them .
I think thenews and game media has been letting us down .
There should be a greater knowledge anddicussion of DRM , but there is n't .
Why is that ?
The only recent article that evenapproached 'mainstream ' was a CNN * Opinion * piece.I know a lot of people read game reviews .
We need to start including 'What DRM this game has'in each and every review.It needs to become part of the common vernacular and lingo so that people start understanding what it is,what it does , and why they may want to include it as part of their purchasing decision .
I do n't thinkthere is a realization of consumer rights being infringed , abridged or otherwise impugned .
I do n't thinkthere is a realization of that fact that the game * just might not work * due to flawed or bad DRMimplementations.This movement of knowledge has to reach a certain mass such that companies can make fiscal decisions basedon : We lose X legitimate sales due to our DRMWe lose Y possible/maybe sales due to pirating.Until X &gt; ( Y * ( conversion of pirate to purchaser - certainly not 1 : 1 ) ) , this will only get worse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too many people ignore it or brush it off - until it directly effects them.
I think thenews and game media has been letting us down.
There should be a greater knowledge anddicussion of DRM, but there isn't.
Why is that?
The only recent article that evenapproached 'mainstream' was a CNN *Opinion* piece.I know a lot of people read game reviews.
We need to start including 'What DRM this game has'in each and every review.It needs to become part of the common vernacular and lingo so that people start understanding what it is,what it does, and why they may want to include it as part of their purchasing decision.
I don't thinkthere is a realization of consumer rights being infringed, abridged or otherwise impugned.
I don't thinkthere is a realization of that fact that the game *just might not work* due to flawed or bad DRMimplementations.This movement of knowledge has to reach a certain mass such that companies can make fiscal decisions basedon :We lose X legitimate sales due to our DRMWe lose Y possible/maybe sales due to pirating.Until X &gt; (Y * (conversion of pirate to purchaser - certainly not 1:1)), this will only get worse.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520632</id>
	<title>Re:DRM On Games Will Stay...</title>
	<author>sa1lnr</author>
	<datestamp>1268912820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I'm still disgusted with myself that even though Fallout 3 is one of the best and most absorbing games I have ever played, I still put up with having to insert my game DVD into the drive every time I play it"</p><p>Install the game directly using "setup.exe" not the launcher, then make a shortcut for "fallout3.exe" again not the shortcut for the launcher that the install makes. No dvd needed in the drive.</p><p>Works for me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I 'm still disgusted with myself that even though Fallout 3 is one of the best and most absorbing games I have ever played , I still put up with having to insert my game DVD into the drive every time I play it " Install the game directly using " setup.exe " not the launcher , then make a shortcut for " fallout3.exe " again not the shortcut for the launcher that the install makes .
No dvd needed in the drive.Works for me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I'm still disgusted with myself that even though Fallout 3 is one of the best and most absorbing games I have ever played, I still put up with having to insert my game DVD into the drive every time I play it"Install the game directly using "setup.exe" not the launcher, then make a shortcut for "fallout3.exe" again not the shortcut for the launcher that the install makes.
No dvd needed in the drive.Works for me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520388</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31521356</id>
	<title>Re:No option but to vote with wallet</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268919720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And this is why DRM is here to stay. Nobody else cares.</p></div><p>Pretty much.</p><p>As long as folks are more-or-less able to play their games, they're happy.  If it freezes or crashes or does weird things now and again...  Oh well.  It's just a game, after all.</p><p>And if it gets annoying enough, most <i>real</i> gamers know enough to locate a no-CD crack.</p><p>So they'll keep buying the stuff, no matter how invasive the DRM is.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And this is why DRM is here to stay .
Nobody else cares.Pretty much.As long as folks are more-or-less able to play their games , they 're happy .
If it freezes or crashes or does weird things now and again... Oh well .
It 's just a game , after all.And if it gets annoying enough , most real gamers know enough to locate a no-CD crack.So they 'll keep buying the stuff , no matter how invasive the DRM is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And this is why DRM is here to stay.
Nobody else cares.Pretty much.As long as folks are more-or-less able to play their games, they're happy.
If it freezes or crashes or does weird things now and again...  Oh well.
It's just a game, after all.And if it gets annoying enough, most real gamers know enough to locate a no-CD crack.So they'll keep buying the stuff, no matter how invasive the DRM is.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31520582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31525558</id>
	<title>Re:Battlefield Bad Company 2</title>
	<author>VGPowerlord</author>
	<datestamp>1268939940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Great so I have SecuRom on my computer</p></div> </blockquote><p>Incidentally, this is why I don't own Batman: Arkham Asylum, despite it being one of the games of the year 2009.  Even the Steam version has SecuROM on it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Great so I have SecuRom on my computer Incidentally , this is why I do n't own Batman : Arkham Asylum , despite it being one of the games of the year 2009 .
Even the Steam version has SecuROM on it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great so I have SecuRom on my computer Incidentally, this is why I don't own Batman: Arkham Asylum, despite it being one of the games of the year 2009.
Even the Steam version has SecuROM on it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_18_0621237.31522332</parent>
</comment>
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