<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_14_0020223</id>
	<title>OpenBSD 4.7 Preorders Are Up</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1268572020000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>badger.foo writes <i>"The <a href="https://https.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/order">OpenBSD 4.7 pre-orders</a> are up. That means the release is done, sent off to CD production, and snapshots will turn -current again.  Order now and you more likely than not will have your CD set, T-shirt or other cool stuff <em>before</em> the official release date. You get the chance to support the most important free software project on the planet, and get your hands on some cool playables and wearables early. The <a href="http://www.openbsd.org/47.html">release page</a> is still being filled in, but the <a href="http://www.openbsd.org/plus47.html">changelog</a> has detailed information about the goodies in this release."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>badger.foo writes " The OpenBSD 4.7 pre-orders are up .
That means the release is done , sent off to CD production , and snapshots will turn -current again .
Order now and you more likely than not will have your CD set , T-shirt or other cool stuff before the official release date .
You get the chance to support the most important free software project on the planet , and get your hands on some cool playables and wearables early .
The release page is still being filled in , but the changelog has detailed information about the goodies in this release .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>badger.foo writes "The OpenBSD 4.7 pre-orders are up.
That means the release is done, sent off to CD production, and snapshots will turn -current again.
Order now and you more likely than not will have your CD set, T-shirt or other cool stuff before the official release date.
You get the chance to support the most important free software project on the planet, and get your hands on some cool playables and wearables early.
The release page is still being filled in, but the changelog has detailed information about the goodies in this release.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31478204</id>
	<title>pf rulesets might need rewriting</title>
	<author>nuckfuts</author>
	<datestamp>1268588460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wouldn't characterize it as a "mess", but I do notice there are some <a href="http://www.openbsd.org/faq/current.html#20090901" title="openbsd.org">changes</a> [openbsd.org] to
to pf rules syntax, so some rewriting of your firewall rules might be required.</p><p>I've been using OpenBSD since around 2.7. I've come to really trust the judgment of the developers in general, and the pf developers in particular. I've yet to see them break backwards compatibility without good reason.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't characterize it as a " mess " , but I do notice there are some changes [ openbsd.org ] to to pf rules syntax , so some rewriting of your firewall rules might be required.I 've been using OpenBSD since around 2.7 .
I 've come to really trust the judgment of the developers in general , and the pf developers in particular .
I 've yet to see them break backwards compatibility without good reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't characterize it as a "mess", but I do notice there are some changes [openbsd.org] to
to pf rules syntax, so some rewriting of your firewall rules might be required.I've been using OpenBSD since around 2.7.
I've come to really trust the judgment of the developers in general, and the pf developers in particular.
I've yet to see them break backwards compatibility without good reason.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468596</id>
	<title>Subjective summary is subjective</title>
	<author>PFAK</author>
	<datestamp>1268489820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"You get the chance to support the most important free software project on the planet"</p><p>What? This sounds like something Theo or a GNU zealot would write<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" You get the chance to support the most important free software project on the planet " What ?
This sounds like something Theo or a GNU zealot would write .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You get the chance to support the most important free software project on the planet"What?
This sounds like something Theo or a GNU zealot would write ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31470050</id>
	<title>Re:Is ugrading OpenBSD still kind of a mess?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268505360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>See the upgrade guide for upgrading 4.5 to 4.6... it's a 280 line upgrade guide:<br><a href="http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade46.html" title="openbsd.org">http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade46.html</a> [openbsd.org]<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...on RedHat and CentOS, to go from RHEL 5.3 to RHEL 5.4 I did "yum -y update". That's it.</p></div></blockquote><p>You can just do the OpenBSD upgrade without reading those instructions...  as you did with RHEL.</p><p>If you'd actually started to read those instructions, you'd have seen they outline basically all feature changes between the previous and current release.  See:</p><blockquote><div><p>    scrub in all no-df max-mss 1440</p><p>can be replaced with a rule using the new "match" action:</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; match in all scrub (no-df max-mss 1440)</p></div></blockquote><p>Did the yum upgrade automatically make all necessary syntax changes in all corner cases in your config files to adapt them for the newest versions of the software?  Obviously not...  You're left to figure those out yourself.  If the new version of iptables  uses different options for some obscure option, you're screwed.  Oh well, guess you should have read the RHEL 5.4 errata, which happens to be SEVERAL THOUSAND LINES  <a href="http://www.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red\_Hat\_Enterprise\_Linux/5.4/html/Release\_Notes/index.html" title="redhat.com">http://www.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red\_Hat\_Enterprise\_Linux/5.4/html/Release\_Notes/index.html</a> [redhat.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>See the upgrade guide for upgrading 4.5 to 4.6... it 's a 280 line upgrade guide : http : //www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade46.html [ openbsd.org ] ...on RedHat and CentOS , to go from RHEL 5.3 to RHEL 5.4 I did " yum -y update " .
That 's it.You can just do the OpenBSD upgrade without reading those instructions... as you did with RHEL.If you 'd actually started to read those instructions , you 'd have seen they outline basically all feature changes between the previous and current release .
See : scrub in all no-df max-mss 1440can be replaced with a rule using the new " match " action :         match in all scrub ( no-df max-mss 1440 ) Did the yum upgrade automatically make all necessary syntax changes in all corner cases in your config files to adapt them for the newest versions of the software ?
Obviously not... You 're left to figure those out yourself .
If the new version of iptables uses different options for some obscure option , you 're screwed .
Oh well , guess you should have read the RHEL 5.4 errata , which happens to be SEVERAL THOUSAND LINES http : //www.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red \ _Hat \ _Enterprise \ _Linux/5.4/html/Release \ _Notes/index.html [ redhat.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See the upgrade guide for upgrading 4.5 to 4.6... it's a 280 line upgrade guide:http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade46.html [openbsd.org] ...on RedHat and CentOS, to go from RHEL 5.3 to RHEL 5.4 I did "yum -y update".
That's it.You can just do the OpenBSD upgrade without reading those instructions...  as you did with RHEL.If you'd actually started to read those instructions, you'd have seen they outline basically all feature changes between the previous and current release.
See:    scrub in all no-df max-mss 1440can be replaced with a rule using the new "match" action:
        match in all scrub (no-df max-mss 1440)Did the yum upgrade automatically make all necessary syntax changes in all corner cases in your config files to adapt them for the newest versions of the software?
Obviously not...  You're left to figure those out yourself.
If the new version of iptables  uses different options for some obscure option, you're screwed.
Oh well, guess you should have read the RHEL 5.4 errata, which happens to be SEVERAL THOUSAND LINES  http://www.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red\_Hat\_Enterprise\_Linux/5.4/html/Release\_Notes/index.html [redhat.com]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31470096</id>
	<title>Re:But I want it now</title>
	<author>evilviper</author>
	<datestamp>1268505780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You'll get the CDs BEFORE you can download the ISO.  That should be sufficient incentive for those who can't wait to pony up some cash.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'll get the CDs BEFORE you can download the ISO .
That should be sufficient incentive for those who ca n't wait to pony up some cash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'll get the CDs BEFORE you can download the ISO.
That should be sufficient incentive for those who can't wait to pony up some cash.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469128</id>
	<title>Re:Subjective summary is subjective</title>
	<author>timmarhy</author>
	<datestamp>1268494680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>spend some time on the mailing list, you'll see why it's a marginalised project.<p>
the funny thing is i really really wanted to like openbsd, i tried it on some production systems. lack of hardware support, problems with upgrading combined with the 6 month release cycle forcing you into the upgrade senario just made the whole thing too hard.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>spend some time on the mailing list , you 'll see why it 's a marginalised project .
the funny thing is i really really wanted to like openbsd , i tried it on some production systems .
lack of hardware support , problems with upgrading combined with the 6 month release cycle forcing you into the upgrade senario just made the whole thing too hard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>spend some time on the mailing list, you'll see why it's a marginalised project.
the funny thing is i really really wanted to like openbsd, i tried it on some production systems.
lack of hardware support, problems with upgrading combined with the 6 month release cycle forcing you into the upgrade senario just made the whole thing too hard.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469096</id>
	<title>Re:Is ugrading OpenBSD still kind of a mess?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268494320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is very disingenuous. The upgrade guide contains all possible contigency plans incase you have altered system files, or have chosen not to upgrade the kernel etc.
<br>
<br>
For example look at the <a href="http://www.debian.org/releases/lenny/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.html" title="debian.org">debian lenny</a> [debian.org] upgrade notes. They are way longer but generally debian based distros are considered some of the best for upgrades.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is very disingenuous .
The upgrade guide contains all possible contigency plans incase you have altered system files , or have chosen not to upgrade the kernel etc .
For example look at the debian lenny [ debian.org ] upgrade notes .
They are way longer but generally debian based distros are considered some of the best for upgrades .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is very disingenuous.
The upgrade guide contains all possible contigency plans incase you have altered system files, or have chosen not to upgrade the kernel etc.
For example look at the debian lenny [debian.org] upgrade notes.
They are way longer but generally debian based distros are considered some of the best for upgrades.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31472144</id>
	<title>Re:Is ugrading OpenBSD still kind of a mess?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268582460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Looks like they include a utility to make life easier when upgrading... looks similar to what Gentoo Linux does when config files are upgraded... new configs are diff'd, and can be interactively merged, etc:</p></div><p>Which in turn is a copy of FreeBSD's utility.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Looks like they include a utility to make life easier when upgrading... looks similar to what Gentoo Linux does when config files are upgraded... new configs are diff 'd , and can be interactively merged , etc : Which in turn is a copy of FreeBSD 's utility .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looks like they include a utility to make life easier when upgrading... looks similar to what Gentoo Linux does when config files are upgraded... new configs are diff'd, and can be interactively merged, etc:Which in turn is a copy of FreeBSD's utility.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31474372</id>
	<title>Re:Is ugrading OpenBSD still kind of a mess?</title>
	<author>Noryungi</author>
	<datestamp>1268559300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, right.<br>Here is MY OpenBSD upgrade guide:<br>1) insert CD, select (U)pgrade.<br>2) once upgrade is finished, enter, as root: "pkg\_add -vvv -u -F upgrade"<br>That's it. I have used this for at least the past 5 upgrades.<br>You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , right.Here is MY OpenBSD upgrade guide : 1 ) insert CD , select ( U ) pgrade.2 ) once upgrade is finished , enter , as root : " pkg \ _add -vvv -u -F upgrade " That 's it .
I have used this for at least the past 5 upgrades.You obviously have no idea what you are talking about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, right.Here is MY OpenBSD upgrade guide:1) insert CD, select (U)pgrade.2) once upgrade is finished, enter, as root: "pkg\_add -vvv -u -F upgrade"That's it.
I have used this for at least the past 5 upgrades.You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468922</id>
	<title>Re:Subjective summary is subjective</title>
	<author>AlexLibman</author>
	<datestamp>1268492640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Looks like <a href="http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=28400.msg582991#msg582991" title="freetalklive.com" rel="nofollow">all the e-mails I've recently sent Theo went straight to his head</a> [freetalklive.com]...</p><p>lulz</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Looks like all the e-mails I 've recently sent Theo went straight to his head [ freetalklive.com ] ...lulz</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looks like all the e-mails I've recently sent Theo went straight to his head [freetalklive.com]...lulz</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469542</id>
	<title>Re:Is ugrading OpenBSD still kind of a mess?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268499060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Instead of following all of this guide, which is partly for an upgrade without booting from the installation media, you could boot from the CD and select "upgrade", which takes care of installing the news files, including the kernel, and creates the new device files. You'll still have to update your configuration files, though. But this is mostly less painful. As the syntax of the files seldom changes, I run the diff program on my notebook only every few updates, unless I know that some configuration file needs work.</p><p>All in all, the upgrade process of the base system takes perhaps 10 minutes, if you can (or dare to) leave your<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/ files alone. The packages can then later be updated by a single command, like "pkg\_add -vui"</p><p>As for the magic of single-line-updates: Over the years each of SuSE, Debian and Ubuntu at least once destroyed some of my configuration files automagically. Gentoo and OpenBSD never did that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead of following all of this guide , which is partly for an upgrade without booting from the installation media , you could boot from the CD and select " upgrade " , which takes care of installing the news files , including the kernel , and creates the new device files .
You 'll still have to update your configuration files , though .
But this is mostly less painful .
As the syntax of the files seldom changes , I run the diff program on my notebook only every few updates , unless I know that some configuration file needs work.All in all , the upgrade process of the base system takes perhaps 10 minutes , if you can ( or dare to ) leave your /etc/ files alone .
The packages can then later be updated by a single command , like " pkg \ _add -vui " As for the magic of single-line-updates : Over the years each of SuSE , Debian and Ubuntu at least once destroyed some of my configuration files automagically .
Gentoo and OpenBSD never did that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead of following all of this guide, which is partly for an upgrade without booting from the installation media, you could boot from the CD and select "upgrade", which takes care of installing the news files, including the kernel, and creates the new device files.
You'll still have to update your configuration files, though.
But this is mostly less painful.
As the syntax of the files seldom changes, I run the diff program on my notebook only every few updates, unless I know that some configuration file needs work.All in all, the upgrade process of the base system takes perhaps 10 minutes, if you can (or dare to) leave your /etc/ files alone.
The packages can then later be updated by a single command, like "pkg\_add -vui"As for the magic of single-line-updates: Over the years each of SuSE, Debian and Ubuntu at least once destroyed some of my configuration files automagically.
Gentoo and OpenBSD never did that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468990</id>
	<title>Re:Subjective summary is subjective</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268493300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"You get the chance to support the most important free software project on the planet"</p><p>What? This sounds like something Theo or a GNU zealot would write<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>It's normal for commercial software companies to run advertisements making claims like "the best" or "easiest to use" or "most important in industry" etc.  Yet you call someone associated with a free software project a zealot for doing something similar.  Face it, you're being a douchebag.  That alone isn't so bad unless you make some lame excuse for it.  I think you're a zealot yourself, and your zealotry consists of accusing others of zealotry based on the flimsiest of evidence.  I don't get it.  There are enough real zealots out there that there's no need to make shit up in order to speak against them.
<br> <br>
I used my last mod point to mark your post Flamebait.  That's what it deserves.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" You get the chance to support the most important free software project on the planet " What ?
This sounds like something Theo or a GNU zealot would write ...It 's normal for commercial software companies to run advertisements making claims like " the best " or " easiest to use " or " most important in industry " etc .
Yet you call someone associated with a free software project a zealot for doing something similar .
Face it , you 're being a douchebag .
That alone is n't so bad unless you make some lame excuse for it .
I think you 're a zealot yourself , and your zealotry consists of accusing others of zealotry based on the flimsiest of evidence .
I do n't get it .
There are enough real zealots out there that there 's no need to make shit up in order to speak against them .
I used my last mod point to mark your post Flamebait .
That 's what it deserves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You get the chance to support the most important free software project on the planet"What?
This sounds like something Theo or a GNU zealot would write ...It's normal for commercial software companies to run advertisements making claims like "the best" or "easiest to use" or "most important in industry" etc.
Yet you call someone associated with a free software project a zealot for doing something similar.
Face it, you're being a douchebag.
That alone isn't so bad unless you make some lame excuse for it.
I think you're a zealot yourself, and your zealotry consists of accusing others of zealotry based on the flimsiest of evidence.
I don't get it.
There are enough real zealots out there that there's no need to make shit up in order to speak against them.
I used my last mod point to mark your post Flamebait.
That's what it deserves.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31476334</id>
	<title>Re:Subjective summary is subjective</title>
	<author>pandrijeczko</author>
	<datestamp>1268573400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...and AT&amp;T UNIX is responsible for TCP/IP without which OpenSSH, OpenBGPD &amp; OpenNTPD would be irrelevant... bleh bleh bleh...</p><p>The clue is in the word "Open" - i.e. open specification so you can compile it on pretty much what you want, even though you may have built it originally on a specific OS.</p><p>Jeez, you guys are worse fanbois than that Apple crowd...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...and AT&amp;T UNIX is responsible for TCP/IP without which OpenSSH , OpenBGPD &amp; OpenNTPD would be irrelevant... bleh bleh bleh...The clue is in the word " Open " - i.e .
open specification so you can compile it on pretty much what you want , even though you may have built it originally on a specific OS.Jeez , you guys are worse fanbois than that Apple crowd.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and AT&amp;T UNIX is responsible for TCP/IP without which OpenSSH, OpenBGPD &amp; OpenNTPD would be irrelevant... bleh bleh bleh...The clue is in the word "Open" - i.e.
open specification so you can compile it on pretty much what you want, even though you may have built it originally on a specific OS.Jeez, you guys are worse fanbois than that Apple crowd...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468644</id>
	<title>But I want it now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268490120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thats how people think these days. They don't care about having the three CDs in their soft shell case. The T shirt probably won't fit (I have a NetBSD shirt which would fit two of me).</p><p>So charge for an ISO download. Get'em out the door. Save money on CD burning, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thats how people think these days .
They do n't care about having the three CDs in their soft shell case .
The T shirt probably wo n't fit ( I have a NetBSD shirt which would fit two of me ) .So charge for an ISO download .
Get'em out the door .
Save money on CD burning , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thats how people think these days.
They don't care about having the three CDs in their soft shell case.
The T shirt probably won't fit (I have a NetBSD shirt which would fit two of me).So charge for an ISO download.
Get'em out the door.
Save money on CD burning, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468692</id>
	<title>Re:But I want it now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268490480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can choose the TShirt size from S to XXXL. I <i>really</i> hope that some of those sizes fits you<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can choose the TShirt size from S to XXXL .
I really hope that some of those sizes fits you : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can choose the TShirt size from S to XXXL.
I really hope that some of those sizes fits you :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468892</id>
	<title>Re:Subjective summary is subjective</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268492460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>OpenBSD is also responsible for, among other things, OpenSSH, OpenBGPD, and OpenNTPD -- all three of which are widely adopted and used far, far beyond the sphere of influence of even OpenBSD itself.  OpenSSH accounts for some 90\% of all SSH deployments world-wide.  Whether you know it or not, OpenBSD-related software enables quit a bit of the internet infrastructure.</htmltext>
<tokenext>OpenBSD is also responsible for , among other things , OpenSSH , OpenBGPD , and OpenNTPD -- all three of which are widely adopted and used far , far beyond the sphere of influence of even OpenBSD itself .
OpenSSH accounts for some 90 \ % of all SSH deployments world-wide .
Whether you know it or not , OpenBSD-related software enables quit a bit of the internet infrastructure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OpenBSD is also responsible for, among other things, OpenSSH, OpenBGPD, and OpenNTPD -- all three of which are widely adopted and used far, far beyond the sphere of influence of even OpenBSD itself.
OpenSSH accounts for some 90\% of all SSH deployments world-wide.
Whether you know it or not, OpenBSD-related software enables quit a bit of the internet infrastructure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469100</id>
	<title>Re:Most important free software project?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268494380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>just to be clear:  you're cool with 2 dudes sucking each other's dicks, giving each other rimjobs, and fucking the shit out of each other (literally!) as long as neither one is a darkie?</htmltext>
<tokenext>just to be clear : you 're cool with 2 dudes sucking each other 's dicks , giving each other rimjobs , and fucking the shit out of each other ( literally !
) as long as neither one is a darkie ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>just to be clear:  you're cool with 2 dudes sucking each other's dicks, giving each other rimjobs, and fucking the shit out of each other (literally!
) as long as neither one is a darkie?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468768</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469896</id>
	<title>Re:Subjective summary is subjective</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268503260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think anyone's saying that OpenBSD is useless.  But to call it the "most important" project is to invite criticism.</p><p>What compiler/toolchain do open source projects use?  Gcc &amp; binutils.  Now, there's pcc, and the much-more-promising clang, and there is work on replacing binutils.  But even <i>if</i> GNU gets replaced by those, you can't deny that GNU was/is instrumental in free software projects.</p><p>OpenSSH is used in tons of places, but so is Apache.  So is Apache one of the most important projects?  Firefox has become pretty popular.  Is it one of the most important projects?  FreeBSD is much more widely used than OpenBSD.  Is it more important?  And so on.  The fact that OpenBSD has contributed to free software doesn't mean that others haven't, or that OpenBSD is somehow superior.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think anyone 's saying that OpenBSD is useless .
But to call it the " most important " project is to invite criticism.What compiler/toolchain do open source projects use ?
Gcc &amp; binutils .
Now , there 's pcc , and the much-more-promising clang , and there is work on replacing binutils .
But even if GNU gets replaced by those , you ca n't deny that GNU was/is instrumental in free software projects.OpenSSH is used in tons of places , but so is Apache .
So is Apache one of the most important projects ?
Firefox has become pretty popular .
Is it one of the most important projects ?
FreeBSD is much more widely used than OpenBSD .
Is it more important ?
And so on .
The fact that OpenBSD has contributed to free software does n't mean that others have n't , or that OpenBSD is somehow superior .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think anyone's saying that OpenBSD is useless.
But to call it the "most important" project is to invite criticism.What compiler/toolchain do open source projects use?
Gcc &amp; binutils.
Now, there's pcc, and the much-more-promising clang, and there is work on replacing binutils.
But even if GNU gets replaced by those, you can't deny that GNU was/is instrumental in free software projects.OpenSSH is used in tons of places, but so is Apache.
So is Apache one of the most important projects?
Firefox has become pretty popular.
Is it one of the most important projects?
FreeBSD is much more widely used than OpenBSD.
Is it more important?
And so on.
The fact that OpenBSD has contributed to free software doesn't mean that others haven't, or that OpenBSD is somehow superior.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31471210</id>
	<title>Re:Is ugrading OpenBSD still kind of a mess?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268568600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What you do upgrades on production machines like that? No wonder you moved to linux.<br>Sometimes some functionality is missing on purpose, however in this case it was just low priority, as the argument was moot compared to upgrade strategies that do not damage availability.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What you do upgrades on production machines like that ?
No wonder you moved to linux.Sometimes some functionality is missing on purpose , however in this case it was just low priority , as the argument was moot compared to upgrade strategies that do not damage availability .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What you do upgrades on production machines like that?
No wonder you moved to linux.Sometimes some functionality is missing on purpose, however in this case it was just low priority, as the argument was moot compared to upgrade strategies that do not damage availability.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469092</id>
	<title>Re:Is ugrading OpenBSD still kind of a mess?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268494260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To follow up on my own post, they have a draft upgrade guide up it looks like (they recommend that it not be used yet though):<br><a href="http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade47.html" title="openbsd.org">http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade47.html</a> [openbsd.org]</p><p>Looks like they include a utility to make life easier when upgrading... looks similar to what Gentoo Linux does when config files are upgraded... new configs are diff'd, and can be interactively merged, etc:<br>"OpenBSD now includes the sysmerge(8) utility, which helps administrators update configuration files after upgrading their system. Sysmerge(8) compares the current files on your system with the files that would have been installed with a new install, and gives you the option of keeping the old file, installing the new file, or assisting you in the manual merging of the old and new files, using sdiff. For past upgrades, we've presented a list of files that are usually copied over "as-is", and a list of files which should be changed, and a patch file that applies those changes to what might be in those files on your system. You may opt to use sysmerge to make the changes, or you may wish to use the patch file first, and then follow up with a sysmerge session to clean up any loose ends."</p><p>So it looks like they're at least making an effort to make it less painful</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To follow up on my own post , they have a draft upgrade guide up it looks like ( they recommend that it not be used yet though ) : http : //www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade47.html [ openbsd.org ] Looks like they include a utility to make life easier when upgrading... looks similar to what Gentoo Linux does when config files are upgraded... new configs are diff 'd , and can be interactively merged , etc : " OpenBSD now includes the sysmerge ( 8 ) utility , which helps administrators update configuration files after upgrading their system .
Sysmerge ( 8 ) compares the current files on your system with the files that would have been installed with a new install , and gives you the option of keeping the old file , installing the new file , or assisting you in the manual merging of the old and new files , using sdiff .
For past upgrades , we 've presented a list of files that are usually copied over " as-is " , and a list of files which should be changed , and a patch file that applies those changes to what might be in those files on your system .
You may opt to use sysmerge to make the changes , or you may wish to use the patch file first , and then follow up with a sysmerge session to clean up any loose ends .
" So it looks like they 're at least making an effort to make it less painful</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To follow up on my own post, they have a draft upgrade guide up it looks like (they recommend that it not be used yet though):http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade47.html [openbsd.org]Looks like they include a utility to make life easier when upgrading... looks similar to what Gentoo Linux does when config files are upgraded... new configs are diff'd, and can be interactively merged, etc:"OpenBSD now includes the sysmerge(8) utility, which helps administrators update configuration files after upgrading their system.
Sysmerge(8) compares the current files on your system with the files that would have been installed with a new install, and gives you the option of keeping the old file, installing the new file, or assisting you in the manual merging of the old and new files, using sdiff.
For past upgrades, we've presented a list of files that are usually copied over "as-is", and a list of files which should be changed, and a patch file that applies those changes to what might be in those files on your system.
You may opt to use sysmerge to make the changes, or you may wish to use the patch file first, and then follow up with a sysmerge session to clean up any loose ends.
"So it looks like they're at least making an effort to make it less painful</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469720</id>
	<title>Re:But I want it now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268500980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>(I have a NetBSD shirt which would fit two of me).</p></div><p>Obviously you are not the target audience. I suggest an immediate increase in the consumption of Mtn Dew, Cheetos and pizza, followed by a rigorous session of WoW</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>( I have a NetBSD shirt which would fit two of me ) .Obviously you are not the target audience .
I suggest an immediate increase in the consumption of Mtn Dew , Cheetos and pizza , followed by a rigorous session of WoW</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(I have a NetBSD shirt which would fit two of me).Obviously you are not the target audience.
I suggest an immediate increase in the consumption of Mtn Dew, Cheetos and pizza, followed by a rigorous session of WoW
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469454</id>
	<title>So tell me...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268497920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What advantages does this operating system have over say, a train, which I could also easily afford?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What advantages does this operating system have over say , a train , which I could also easily afford ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What advantages does this operating system have over say, a train, which I could also easily afford?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469220</id>
	<title>Re:But I want it now</title>
	<author>Xipher</author>
	<datestamp>1268495700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you want to do it that way you could just donate money and grab the ISO when it's available, or build your own off the stable branch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want to do it that way you could just donate money and grab the ISO when it 's available , or build your own off the stable branch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want to do it that way you could just donate money and grab the ISO when it's available, or build your own off the stable branch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31477872</id>
	<title>Re:But I want it now</title>
	<author>the\_B0fh</author>
	<datestamp>1268585100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>when you come up with a working model for charging for ISO downloads for an *OPEN SOURCE* project, come back and tell us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>when you come up with a working model for charging for ISO downloads for an * OPEN SOURCE * project , come back and tell us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>when you come up with a working model for charging for ISO downloads for an *OPEN SOURCE* project, come back and tell us.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468588</id>
	<title>Most important free software project?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268489700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just begging for it aren't you?</p><p>Prepare for incoming!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just begging for it are n't you ? Prepare for incoming !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just begging for it aren't you?Prepare for incoming!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31471062</id>
	<title>Re:Is ugrading OpenBSD still kind of a mess?</title>
	<author>thunrida</author>
	<datestamp>1268565480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>RHEL 5.3 to 5.4 is just artificial patch release. Kind of like service packs with windows.
It is trivial to update, when all the programs stay at the same version and config files stay the same.

We shall see how easy it will be going from 5.x to 6.x, for this won't be update like 5.x to 5.x+1, but upgrade.</htmltext>
<tokenext>RHEL 5.3 to 5.4 is just artificial patch release .
Kind of like service packs with windows .
It is trivial to update , when all the programs stay at the same version and config files stay the same .
We shall see how easy it will be going from 5.x to 6.x , for this wo n't be update like 5.x to 5.x + 1 , but upgrade .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RHEL 5.3 to 5.4 is just artificial patch release.
Kind of like service packs with windows.
It is trivial to update, when all the programs stay at the same version and config files stay the same.
We shall see how easy it will be going from 5.x to 6.x, for this won't be update like 5.x to 5.x+1, but upgrade.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468768</id>
	<title>Re:Most important free software project?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268491320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you gay?<br>Are you a nigger?<br>Are you a gay nigger?<br>If so, then GTFO.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you gay ? Are you a nigger ? Are you a gay nigger ? If so , then GTFO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you gay?Are you a nigger?Are you a gay nigger?If so, then GTFO.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468588</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469018</id>
	<title>Is ugrading OpenBSD still kind of a mess?</title>
	<author>flydpnkrtn</author>
	<datestamp>1268493600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>See the upgrade guide for upgrading 4.5 to 4.6... it's a 280 line upgrade guide:<br><a href="http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade46.html" title="openbsd.org">http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade46.html</a> [openbsd.org] <br>
&nbsp; <br><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...on RedHat and CentOS, to go from RHEL 5.3 to RHEL 5.4 I did "yum -y update". That's it.</p><p>Can we get there with OpenBSD? At my current place of employment we were using OpenBSD, but the upgrade process was an argument that was made (by other members of my team) to move to RHEL...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>See the upgrade guide for upgrading 4.5 to 4.6... it 's a 280 line upgrade guide : http : //www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade46.html [ openbsd.org ]   ...on RedHat and CentOS , to go from RHEL 5.3 to RHEL 5.4 I did " yum -y update " .
That 's it.Can we get there with OpenBSD ?
At my current place of employment we were using OpenBSD , but the upgrade process was an argument that was made ( by other members of my team ) to move to RHEL.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See the upgrade guide for upgrading 4.5 to 4.6... it's a 280 line upgrade guide:http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade46.html [openbsd.org] 
   ...on RedHat and CentOS, to go from RHEL 5.3 to RHEL 5.4 I did "yum -y update".
That's it.Can we get there with OpenBSD?
At my current place of employment we were using OpenBSD, but the upgrade process was an argument that was made (by other members of my team) to move to RHEL...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31472012</id>
	<title>Re:Subjective summary is subjective</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1268580660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>It, along with the rest of the OpenBSD base system, now compiles with PCC.  It also compiles with clang and, last benchmarks I saw, performed better when compiled with clang than with GCC.  So, I guess the answer to your question is 'better'.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It , along with the rest of the OpenBSD base system , now compiles with PCC .
It also compiles with clang and , last benchmarks I saw , performed better when compiled with clang than with GCC .
So , I guess the answer to your question is 'better' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It, along with the rest of the OpenBSD base system, now compiles with PCC.
It also compiles with clang and, last benchmarks I saw, performed better when compiled with clang than with GCC.
So, I guess the answer to your question is 'better'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469932</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468698</id>
	<title>Re:Most important free software project?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268490600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>pffft! don't you read the Financial Post? it has been screaming about <a href="http://www.financialpost.com/most-popular/story.html?id=2642050" title="financialpost.com">Rely on the BSDs</a> [financialpost.com] for a while...</htmltext>
<tokenext>pffft !
do n't you read the Financial Post ?
it has been screaming about Rely on the BSDs [ financialpost.com ] for a while.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>pffft!
don't you read the Financial Post?
it has been screaming about Rely on the BSDs [financialpost.com] for a while...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468588</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31470744</id>
	<title>Re:Subjective summary is subjective</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268560500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Still doesn't mean the OpenBSD itself is relevant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Still does n't mean the OpenBSD itself is relevant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Still doesn't mean the OpenBSD itself is relevant.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469326</id>
	<title>Re:But I want it now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268496480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So charge for an ISO download.</p></div><p>Can't one just <a href="http://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html" title="openbsd.org" rel="nofollow">download it</a> [openbsd.org] and give a donation?</p><p>Problem solved.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So charge for an ISO download.Ca n't one just download it [ openbsd.org ] and give a donation ? Problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So charge for an ISO download.Can't one just download it [openbsd.org] and give a donation?Problem solved.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31471526</id>
	<title>Re:Is ugrading OpenBSD still kind of a mess?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268574240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are confusing updates with upgrades.</p><p>- OpenBSD release versions are marked differently then RHEL. OpenBSD 4.x is a major release whilst RHEL 5.x is an update aka minor release.<br>- OpenBSD makes it possible to upgrade your box with to a *ANY* major release, RHEL/CentOS only allows updating to a new minor release. Try yum updating your RHEL4 box to RHEL5... won't work bro.<br>- Your manager should replace you with somebody that can actually RTFM and interpret facts correctly if that was your only argument to move over to a new platform (migration costs, costs of rewriting system management procedures etc)</p><p>Stop spreading FUD about OpenBSD.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are confusing updates with upgrades.- OpenBSD release versions are marked differently then RHEL .
OpenBSD 4.x is a major release whilst RHEL 5.x is an update aka minor release.- OpenBSD makes it possible to upgrade your box with to a * ANY * major release , RHEL/CentOS only allows updating to a new minor release .
Try yum updating your RHEL4 box to RHEL5... wo n't work bro.- Your manager should replace you with somebody that can actually RTFM and interpret facts correctly if that was your only argument to move over to a new platform ( migration costs , costs of rewriting system management procedures etc ) Stop spreading FUD about OpenBSD .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are confusing updates with upgrades.- OpenBSD release versions are marked differently then RHEL.
OpenBSD 4.x is a major release whilst RHEL 5.x is an update aka minor release.- OpenBSD makes it possible to upgrade your box with to a *ANY* major release, RHEL/CentOS only allows updating to a new minor release.
Try yum updating your RHEL4 box to RHEL5... won't work bro.- Your manager should replace you with somebody that can actually RTFM and interpret facts correctly if that was your only argument to move over to a new platform (migration costs, costs of rewriting system management procedures etc)Stop spreading FUD about OpenBSD.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31470448</id>
	<title>Re:Is ugrading OpenBSD still kind of a mess?</title>
	<author>Niten</author>
	<datestamp>1268597640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree.  The thing generally missed by people who criticize the OpenBSD upgrade process without having actually tried it themselves, is that OpenBSD is so cleanly designed and well documented that it's actually possible to hold a thorough understanding of the operating system in one's head, so to speak.  It's like the <a href="http://phraktured.net/arch-way.html" title="phraktured.net">Arch Linux philosophy</a> [phraktured.net]:</p><blockquote><div><p>Relying on complex tools to manage and build your system is going to hurt the end users. [...] "If you try to hide the complexity of the system, you'll end up with a more complex system". Layers of abstraction that serve to hide internals are never a good thing. Instead, the internals should be designed in a way such that they NEED no hiding.</p></div></blockquote><p>except applied to an entire operating system, built from the ground up and maintained as a cohesive package.</p><p>The result of this is that, unlike with Windows or even most Linux distributions, there's little need for automated upgrade utilities because there's really quite little going on under the hood in the upgrade process.  This means little chance of things breaking.  And if something <em>does</em> break, you'll know precisely what it was and how to fix it.</p><p>I've been burned by even the best of the automated upgrade tools (Debian's).  Frankly, OpenBSD is the <em>only</em> operating system I ever try to upgrade in place between major versions any more, because the upgrade process is so straightforward and transparent.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
The thing generally missed by people who criticize the OpenBSD upgrade process without having actually tried it themselves , is that OpenBSD is so cleanly designed and well documented that it 's actually possible to hold a thorough understanding of the operating system in one 's head , so to speak .
It 's like the Arch Linux philosophy [ phraktured.net ] : Relying on complex tools to manage and build your system is going to hurt the end users .
[ ... ] " If you try to hide the complexity of the system , you 'll end up with a more complex system " .
Layers of abstraction that serve to hide internals are never a good thing .
Instead , the internals should be designed in a way such that they NEED no hiding.except applied to an entire operating system , built from the ground up and maintained as a cohesive package.The result of this is that , unlike with Windows or even most Linux distributions , there 's little need for automated upgrade utilities because there 's really quite little going on under the hood in the upgrade process .
This means little chance of things breaking .
And if something does break , you 'll know precisely what it was and how to fix it.I 've been burned by even the best of the automated upgrade tools ( Debian 's ) .
Frankly , OpenBSD is the only operating system I ever try to upgrade in place between major versions any more , because the upgrade process is so straightforward and transparent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
The thing generally missed by people who criticize the OpenBSD upgrade process without having actually tried it themselves, is that OpenBSD is so cleanly designed and well documented that it's actually possible to hold a thorough understanding of the operating system in one's head, so to speak.
It's like the Arch Linux philosophy [phraktured.net]:Relying on complex tools to manage and build your system is going to hurt the end users.
[...] "If you try to hide the complexity of the system, you'll end up with a more complex system".
Layers of abstraction that serve to hide internals are never a good thing.
Instead, the internals should be designed in a way such that they NEED no hiding.except applied to an entire operating system, built from the ground up and maintained as a cohesive package.The result of this is that, unlike with Windows or even most Linux distributions, there's little need for automated upgrade utilities because there's really quite little going on under the hood in the upgrade process.
This means little chance of things breaking.
And if something does break, you'll know precisely what it was and how to fix it.I've been burned by even the best of the automated upgrade tools (Debian's).
Frankly, OpenBSD is the only operating system I ever try to upgrade in place between major versions any more, because the upgrade process is so straightforward and transparent.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469176</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31470326</id>
	<title>Re:Subjective summary is subjective</title>
	<author>ftobin</author>
	<datestamp>1268508960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>After looking into a replacement for NTPD, OpenNTPD was a terrible option.  If I recall correctly, all it did was a very simplistic setting of the time from what the server says.  No slewing, no safety mechanisms, etc.  I remember reading that it was simply designed for simplicity, not features, but it went way overboard.</htmltext>
<tokenext>After looking into a replacement for NTPD , OpenNTPD was a terrible option .
If I recall correctly , all it did was a very simplistic setting of the time from what the server says .
No slewing , no safety mechanisms , etc .
I remember reading that it was simply designed for simplicity , not features , but it went way overboard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After looking into a replacement for NTPD, OpenNTPD was a terrible option.
If I recall correctly, all it did was a very simplistic setting of the time from what the server says.
No slewing, no safety mechanisms, etc.
I remember reading that it was simply designed for simplicity, not features, but it went way overboard.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31472506</id>
	<title>Um...who buys CDs anymore?</title>
	<author>hackel</author>
	<datestamp>1268586180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously!  Even for commercial products don't people purchase them electronically?  Maybe I'm just so far-removed from the commercial software world that I can't even comprehend this in this day and age...  I did order a free Ubuntu CD once, but never even ended up using it because Ubuntu releases so often that there's almost always a newer version the next time you want to install it, and downloading via bittorrent is so fast.  Of course I understand for those unlucky folk who are living in the middle of nowhere on a analogue or satellite connection or something, but seems this market is rather small.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously !
Even for commercial products do n't people purchase them electronically ?
Maybe I 'm just so far-removed from the commercial software world that I ca n't even comprehend this in this day and age... I did order a free Ubuntu CD once , but never even ended up using it because Ubuntu releases so often that there 's almost always a newer version the next time you want to install it , and downloading via bittorrent is so fast .
Of course I understand for those unlucky folk who are living in the middle of nowhere on a analogue or satellite connection or something , but seems this market is rather small .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously!
Even for commercial products don't people purchase them electronically?
Maybe I'm just so far-removed from the commercial software world that I can't even comprehend this in this day and age...  I did order a free Ubuntu CD once, but never even ended up using it because Ubuntu releases so often that there's almost always a newer version the next time you want to install it, and downloading via bittorrent is so fast.
Of course I understand for those unlucky folk who are living in the middle of nowhere on a analogue or satellite connection or something, but seems this market is rather small.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31472028</id>
	<title>Re:Is ugrading OpenBSD still kind of a mess?</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1268580960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Read the bits in bold teletype font.  Those are the commands that you need to run.  The rest of it is an explanation of what has changed since the last release and how it may affect you.  Note also that those are the instructions for remote upgrading.  If you have physical access to the machine, just boot from the install kernel + initrd and follow the on-screen instructions.  </p><p>
That said, I'd love it if they'd port the freebsd-update tool.  Updating an OpenBSD machine remotely does take a few minutes of interaction, while doing the same with FreeBSD is largely unattended.  They also no longer provide package updates as binaries for security fixes and don't have any equivalent of FreeBSD's portaudit tool, which offsets a lot of their 'secure by default' stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Read the bits in bold teletype font .
Those are the commands that you need to run .
The rest of it is an explanation of what has changed since the last release and how it may affect you .
Note also that those are the instructions for remote upgrading .
If you have physical access to the machine , just boot from the install kernel + initrd and follow the on-screen instructions .
That said , I 'd love it if they 'd port the freebsd-update tool .
Updating an OpenBSD machine remotely does take a few minutes of interaction , while doing the same with FreeBSD is largely unattended .
They also no longer provide package updates as binaries for security fixes and do n't have any equivalent of FreeBSD 's portaudit tool , which offsets a lot of their 'secure by default ' stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Read the bits in bold teletype font.
Those are the commands that you need to run.
The rest of it is an explanation of what has changed since the last release and how it may affect you.
Note also that those are the instructions for remote upgrading.
If you have physical access to the machine, just boot from the install kernel + initrd and follow the on-screen instructions.
That said, I'd love it if they'd port the freebsd-update tool.
Updating an OpenBSD machine remotely does take a few minutes of interaction, while doing the same with FreeBSD is largely unattended.
They also no longer provide package updates as binaries for security fixes and don't have any equivalent of FreeBSD's portaudit tool, which offsets a lot of their 'secure by default' stuff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469932</id>
	<title>Re:Subjective summary is subjective</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268503680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How does OpenSSH do without GCC?</htmltext>
<tokenext>How does OpenSSH do without GCC ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How does OpenSSH do without GCC?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469176</id>
	<title>Re:Is ugrading OpenBSD still kind of a mess?</title>
	<author>Just Some Guy</author>
	<datestamp>1268495160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The funny thing (to me) is that the upgrade process <em>looks</em> a lot harder than it actually turns out to be. On our servers, it usually amounts to running the installer, running <tt>patch</tt> to update files in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc, running a single command to upgrade all the installed 3rd-party software, and rebooting a last time to make sure it comes back up cleanly.</p><p>In practice, the things that OpenBSD doesn't automatically upgrade with the above steps are the kinds of things you wouldn't want a script to attempt, such as upgrading the firewall configuration to use new features. The process certainly isn't slick or pretty, but it does the job well and safely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The funny thing ( to me ) is that the upgrade process looks a lot harder than it actually turns out to be .
On our servers , it usually amounts to running the installer , running patch to update files in /etc , running a single command to upgrade all the installed 3rd-party software , and rebooting a last time to make sure it comes back up cleanly.In practice , the things that OpenBSD does n't automatically upgrade with the above steps are the kinds of things you would n't want a script to attempt , such as upgrading the firewall configuration to use new features .
The process certainly is n't slick or pretty , but it does the job well and safely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The funny thing (to me) is that the upgrade process looks a lot harder than it actually turns out to be.
On our servers, it usually amounts to running the installer, running patch to update files in /etc, running a single command to upgrade all the installed 3rd-party software, and rebooting a last time to make sure it comes back up cleanly.In practice, the things that OpenBSD doesn't automatically upgrade with the above steps are the kinds of things you wouldn't want a script to attempt, such as upgrading the firewall configuration to use new features.
The process certainly isn't slick or pretty, but it does the job well and safely.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31469018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31476374</id>
	<title>Re:Subjective summary is subjective</title>
	<author>pandrijeczko</author>
	<datestamp>1268573640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>PS. Is it true the "BSD" stands for "Big Superiority Disorder"? I thought we free software types were kind of on the same team but you guys have got it *BAD*!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>PS .
Is it true the " BSD " stands for " Big Superiority Disorder " ?
I thought we free software types were kind of on the same team but you guys have got it * BAD * !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PS.
Is it true the "BSD" stands for "Big Superiority Disorder"?
I thought we free software types were kind of on the same team but you guys have got it *BAD*!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_14_0020223.31468892</parent>
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