<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_13_0537200</id>
	<title>PA Laptop Spying Inspires FSF Crowdsourcing Effort</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1268487420000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>holmesfsf writes <i>"Creeped out by the Lower Merion School District's <a href="http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/02/18/1846222/PA-School-Spied-On-Students-Via-School-Issued-Laptop-Webcams">remote monitoring</a> of students?  Check out the <a href="http://www.fsf.org/blogs/choose-your-future-free-software-or-masking-tape-on-your-kids-webcam">Free Software Foundation's response</a> to the laptop spying scandal and help build a <a href="http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/Laptop\_Spying">wiki listing</a> of school districts that provide students with laptops, so that the FSF can campaign against mandatory, proprietary laptops."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>holmesfsf writes " Creeped out by the Lower Merion School District 's remote monitoring of students ?
Check out the Free Software Foundation 's response to the laptop spying scandal and help build a wiki listing of school districts that provide students with laptops , so that the FSF can campaign against mandatory , proprietary laptops .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>holmesfsf writes "Creeped out by the Lower Merion School District's remote monitoring of students?
Check out the Free Software Foundation's response to the laptop spying scandal and help build a wiki listing of school districts that provide students with laptops, so that the FSF can campaign against mandatory, proprietary laptops.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464704</id>
	<title>Re:Meh.</title>
	<author>bertoelcon</author>
	<datestamp>1268503560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We had some of that in my highschool. Those who could get around it didn't try to teach the others though, we just put all the steps in a<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.bat file and copied the file onto flash drives.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We had some of that in my highschool .
Those who could get around it did n't try to teach the others though , we just put all the steps in a .bat file and copied the file onto flash drives .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We had some of that in my highschool.
Those who could get around it didn't try to teach the others though, we just put all the steps in a .bat file and copied the file onto flash drives.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31465350</id>
	<title>Re:You never said they would take my cap and gown</title>
	<author>gnapster</author>
	<datestamp>1268508840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What the deuce?  It seems pretty clear that GP is a student, not a teacher.  XPeter might have to worry about their own graduation, but really; Jailbait? Take a chill pill.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What the deuce ?
It seems pretty clear that GP is a student , not a teacher .
XPeter might have to worry about their own graduation , but really ; Jailbait ?
Take a chill pill .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What the deuce?
It seems pretty clear that GP is a student, not a teacher.
XPeter might have to worry about their own graduation, but really; Jailbait?
Take a chill pill.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464150</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463608</id>
	<title>I wonder about "Free"</title>
	<author>MerlynDavis</author>
	<datestamp>1268492340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>FTA: "any proprietary software is a computer that you don't control".  How many people know half of what's going on with "Free" software?  How many people not "into" tech know why free software is any different?  And, how much free software is actually so thoroughly audited that everyone knows everything it does?<p>

At some point, you have to take someone's word that the software you are loading on your computer is "trustworthy", unless you're going to write it all yourself.  And even then, how much of that code is going to be your own, and how much will be copied from elsewhere?</p><p>

Free software isn't inherently more trustworthy, it simply moves the trust relationship around.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FTA : " any proprietary software is a computer that you do n't control " .
How many people know half of what 's going on with " Free " software ?
How many people not " into " tech know why free software is any different ?
And , how much free software is actually so thoroughly audited that everyone knows everything it does ?
At some point , you have to take someone 's word that the software you are loading on your computer is " trustworthy " , unless you 're going to write it all yourself .
And even then , how much of that code is going to be your own , and how much will be copied from elsewhere ?
Free software is n't inherently more trustworthy , it simply moves the trust relationship around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FTA: "any proprietary software is a computer that you don't control".
How many people know half of what's going on with "Free" software?
How many people not "into" tech know why free software is any different?
And, how much free software is actually so thoroughly audited that everyone knows everything it does?
At some point, you have to take someone's word that the software you are loading on your computer is "trustworthy", unless you're going to write it all yourself.
And even then, how much of that code is going to be your own, and how much will be copied from elsewhere?
Free software isn't inherently more trustworthy, it simply moves the trust relationship around.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463620</id>
	<title>Crowdsurfing</title>
	<author>garethw</author>
	<datestamp>1268492460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Every time I see the word crowdsourcing, I read it as crowdsurfing.

I, for one, try to avoid being near anywhere that RMS is crowdsurfing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Every time I see the word crowdsourcing , I read it as crowdsurfing .
I , for one , try to avoid being near anywhere that RMS is crowdsurfing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every time I see the word crowdsourcing, I read it as crowdsurfing.
I, for one, try to avoid being near anywhere that RMS is crowdsurfing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31472132</id>
	<title>Re:Meh.</title>
	<author>berryjw</author>
	<datestamp>1268582400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As I don't know the state the poster is from, I'll post my own.  Most have similar laws, and I believe there's also pertinent federal law.  BTW, the courts won't really care that you think it's BS, they'll just give you plenty of structured time to think about it.

<a href="http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter\_14/Article\_60.html" title="state.nc.us" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter\_14/Article\_60.html</a> [state.nc.us]</htmltext>
<tokenext>As I do n't know the state the poster is from , I 'll post my own .
Most have similar laws , and I believe there 's also pertinent federal law .
BTW , the courts wo n't really care that you think it 's BS , they 'll just give you plenty of structured time to think about it .
http : //www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter \ _14/Article \ _60.html [ state.nc.us ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As I don't know the state the poster is from, I'll post my own.
Most have similar laws, and I believe there's also pertinent federal law.
BTW, the courts won't really care that you think it's BS, they'll just give you plenty of structured time to think about it.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter\_14/Article\_60.html [state.nc.us]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463778</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464028</id>
	<title>Re:Great idea</title>
	<author>0100010001010011</author>
	<datestamp>1268496900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://preyproject.com/" title="preyproject.com">GPLv3 tracking software</a> [preyproject.com] Demand opensource! Demand that these school districts spy on their students only using free as in speech software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GPLv3 tracking software [ preyproject.com ] Demand opensource !
Demand that these school districts spy on their students only using free as in speech software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GPLv3 tracking software [preyproject.com] Demand opensource!
Demand that these school districts spy on their students only using free as in speech software.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464150</id>
	<title>You never said they would take my cap and gown</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1268498280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The problem is relatively easy to fix, though. All students should know how to do this, and I teach as many how to as I can. Fuck the "monitoring" they do, this isn't China.</i> </p><p>Did you to a lawyer about the risks you and the students are taking?</p><p>Their parents and guardians?</p><p>The ones who will be in no very forgiving mood when their kids miss graduation?</p><p>Did you talk to your wife?</p><p> Ever hear the phrase "Jail Bait?"</p><p> Mucking around with minors and the law is dangerous: </p><p> <i>"Twenty-seven year old geek arrested as ringleader in local high school kiddie porn bust."</i> </p><p>The school locks down its system to avoid even the remote possibility of being tainted by stories like this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is relatively easy to fix , though .
All students should know how to do this , and I teach as many how to as I can .
Fuck the " monitoring " they do , this is n't China .
Did you to a lawyer about the risks you and the students are taking ? Their parents and guardians ? The ones who will be in no very forgiving mood when their kids miss graduation ? Did you talk to your wife ?
Ever hear the phrase " Jail Bait ?
" Mucking around with minors and the law is dangerous : " Twenty-seven year old geek arrested as ringleader in local high school kiddie porn bust .
" The school locks down its system to avoid even the remote possibility of being tainted by stories like this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is relatively easy to fix, though.
All students should know how to do this, and I teach as many how to as I can.
Fuck the "monitoring" they do, this isn't China.
Did you to a lawyer about the risks you and the students are taking?Their parents and guardians?The ones who will be in no very forgiving mood when their kids miss graduation?Did you talk to your wife?
Ever hear the phrase "Jail Bait?
" Mucking around with minors and the law is dangerous:  "Twenty-seven year old geek arrested as ringleader in local high school kiddie porn bust.
" The school locks down its system to avoid even the remote possibility of being tainted by stories like this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464412</id>
	<title>proprietary laptops</title>
	<author>KevMar</author>
	<datestamp>1268500680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know about the proprietary laptops comment.  I guess I don't care if its a proprietary laptop or not, but they should be standardized.</p><p>It would be a total mess is they didn't keep some control of the computers and hardware.  All the hardware should be the same.  This makes it so much easier for the IT department when every single laptop is the same model number. This makes replacements easy. If its hardware, swap the hard drive into a spare unit and everything works.  All the drivers are the same.  If its a reinstall, its just 5-10 min to load from a standard ghost image.  I know you can get driver packs for those images, but its so nice when you know the few drivers you need.</p><p>Thats also where deep freeze comes in.  Keeps the computer clean from user mistakes.  We tried deep freeze and it didn't work for us, but I love the idea behind it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about the proprietary laptops comment .
I guess I do n't care if its a proprietary laptop or not , but they should be standardized.It would be a total mess is they did n't keep some control of the computers and hardware .
All the hardware should be the same .
This makes it so much easier for the IT department when every single laptop is the same model number .
This makes replacements easy .
If its hardware , swap the hard drive into a spare unit and everything works .
All the drivers are the same .
If its a reinstall , its just 5-10 min to load from a standard ghost image .
I know you can get driver packs for those images , but its so nice when you know the few drivers you need.Thats also where deep freeze comes in .
Keeps the computer clean from user mistakes .
We tried deep freeze and it did n't work for us , but I love the idea behind it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about the proprietary laptops comment.
I guess I don't care if its a proprietary laptop or not, but they should be standardized.It would be a total mess is they didn't keep some control of the computers and hardware.
All the hardware should be the same.
This makes it so much easier for the IT department when every single laptop is the same model number.
This makes replacements easy.
If its hardware, swap the hard drive into a spare unit and everything works.
All the drivers are the same.
If its a reinstall, its just 5-10 min to load from a standard ghost image.
I know you can get driver packs for those images, but its so nice when you know the few drivers you need.Thats also where deep freeze comes in.
Keeps the computer clean from user mistakes.
We tried deep freeze and it didn't work for us, but I love the idea behind it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464684</id>
	<title>Re:people still don't know the real story in PA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268503260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Student broke rules and got busted, doesn't matter if it was a laptop or getting caught smoking on school surveilance web cam</p></div><p>Single most important fact, which you neglected:  He didn't get busted for taking the laptop home, he got busted because the photograph taken by the surveillance cam made somebody believe he was popping pills.</p><p>He got busted by the school for behavior that did not happen at school.  Nevermind the fact that the "pills" turned out to be candy, because it's not even relevant.  I don't care if he was shooting up, they shouldn't have had the ability to "catch" him in his own home.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Student broke rules and got busted , does n't matter if it was a laptop or getting caught smoking on school surveilance web camSingle most important fact , which you neglected : He did n't get busted for taking the laptop home , he got busted because the photograph taken by the surveillance cam made somebody believe he was popping pills.He got busted by the school for behavior that did not happen at school .
Nevermind the fact that the " pills " turned out to be candy , because it 's not even relevant .
I do n't care if he was shooting up , they should n't have had the ability to " catch " him in his own home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Student broke rules and got busted, doesn't matter if it was a laptop or getting caught smoking on school surveilance web camSingle most important fact, which you neglected:  He didn't get busted for taking the laptop home, he got busted because the photograph taken by the surveillance cam made somebody believe he was popping pills.He got busted by the school for behavior that did not happen at school.
Nevermind the fact that the "pills" turned out to be candy, because it's not even relevant.
I don't care if he was shooting up, they shouldn't have had the ability to "catch" him in his own home.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464046</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31465038</id>
	<title>Re:people still don't know the real story in PA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268506440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Vigilantism is illegal based on the second ammendment.  Welcome to America!  But don't worry, when we do find out someone was bad, bounty hunting is legal!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Vigilantism is illegal based on the second ammendment .
Welcome to America !
But do n't worry , when we do find out someone was bad , bounty hunting is legal !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Vigilantism is illegal based on the second ammendment.
Welcome to America!
But don't worry, when we do find out someone was bad, bounty hunting is legal!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464046</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464998</id>
	<title>Re:people still don't know the real story in PA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268506140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You need to read the constitution.  The school is the government and monitored him in his home without a warrant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You need to read the constitution .
The school is the government and monitored him in his home without a warrant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You need to read the constitution.
The school is the government and monitored him in his home without a warrant.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464046</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464974</id>
	<title>Re:Opportunism</title>
	<author>Skapare</author>
	<datestamp>1268506020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This event opened our eyes to the POTENTIAL for abuse by a group of people that typically is known for a greater propensity to be abusive.</p><p>And there are issues about even the program itself. For example, requiring kids to use that computer and not the one that they already have at home, which for some can be a space issue (where do I put it). It also imposes property care obligations on people that don't necessarily need to have it. In some cases students cannot leave their school provided laptops at school in the lockers and are required to take them home every day, which may be an environment with a greater chance of being stolen (and then the student be blamed for not taking proper care).</p><p>It would just be simpler if the schools would let the program be optional, though opt-in at any time. Let kids use their own computers when and where they like (but the school is not liable for problems with the kids own computers). Accept all known formats for assignment turn-in. Ignorance of teachers (to deal with Open Office formats, which they can do for free on any computer, so money is not an excuse) is no excuse.</p><p>And tell the schools to quit whining about budgets unless they are using the lowest cost solutions for their computers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This event opened our eyes to the POTENTIAL for abuse by a group of people that typically is known for a greater propensity to be abusive.And there are issues about even the program itself .
For example , requiring kids to use that computer and not the one that they already have at home , which for some can be a space issue ( where do I put it ) .
It also imposes property care obligations on people that do n't necessarily need to have it .
In some cases students can not leave their school provided laptops at school in the lockers and are required to take them home every day , which may be an environment with a greater chance of being stolen ( and then the student be blamed for not taking proper care ) .It would just be simpler if the schools would let the program be optional , though opt-in at any time .
Let kids use their own computers when and where they like ( but the school is not liable for problems with the kids own computers ) .
Accept all known formats for assignment turn-in .
Ignorance of teachers ( to deal with Open Office formats , which they can do for free on any computer , so money is not an excuse ) is no excuse.And tell the schools to quit whining about budgets unless they are using the lowest cost solutions for their computers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This event opened our eyes to the POTENTIAL for abuse by a group of people that typically is known for a greater propensity to be abusive.And there are issues about even the program itself.
For example, requiring kids to use that computer and not the one that they already have at home, which for some can be a space issue (where do I put it).
It also imposes property care obligations on people that don't necessarily need to have it.
In some cases students cannot leave their school provided laptops at school in the lockers and are required to take them home every day, which may be an environment with a greater chance of being stolen (and then the student be blamed for not taking proper care).It would just be simpler if the schools would let the program be optional, though opt-in at any time.
Let kids use their own computers when and where they like (but the school is not liable for problems with the kids own computers).
Accept all known formats for assignment turn-in.
Ignorance of teachers (to deal with Open Office formats, which they can do for free on any computer, so money is not an excuse) is no excuse.And tell the schools to quit whining about budgets unless they are using the lowest cost solutions for their computers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463860</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464464</id>
	<title>Re:Meh.</title>
	<author>laughingcoyote</author>
	<datestamp>1268501160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you quite serious?</p><p>The school might get upset, and take disciplinary action, but we're most certainly not talking felony territory here. A felony would be cracking into a system you don't have permission to use at all, or outright stealing a laptop (and even that, in many states, would depend how much the laptop is worth). It's not a felony to use a machine you've been granted permission to use. Now, certainly, if you go outside the scope of how you're supposed to use it, they might take it away and take internal disciplinary action, both of which are within their rights. But I have no idea how you think this is a felony.</p><p>That being said, even if it technically is, good on them for being willing to do it. Let your students learn how things work, by tinkering with them (and if need be, learning how to break locks someone attempts to put on your stuff). Give them full admin rights, make it crystal clear that the students (and parents) are fully and solely responsible for what's done with the machine, and wipe and reburn it every time it comes back in to go to a different student. Don't lock everything down all to hell. When I was in school myself, we had unfettered Net access and admin accounts on every machine in the school, because no one knew it was even possible to try to lock a system down. And we learned from it, and the sky didn't fall. The world wouldn't be a worse place for a little less paranoia and a little more tinkering.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you quite serious ? The school might get upset , and take disciplinary action , but we 're most certainly not talking felony territory here .
A felony would be cracking into a system you do n't have permission to use at all , or outright stealing a laptop ( and even that , in many states , would depend how much the laptop is worth ) .
It 's not a felony to use a machine you 've been granted permission to use .
Now , certainly , if you go outside the scope of how you 're supposed to use it , they might take it away and take internal disciplinary action , both of which are within their rights .
But I have no idea how you think this is a felony.That being said , even if it technically is , good on them for being willing to do it .
Let your students learn how things work , by tinkering with them ( and if need be , learning how to break locks someone attempts to put on your stuff ) .
Give them full admin rights , make it crystal clear that the students ( and parents ) are fully and solely responsible for what 's done with the machine , and wipe and reburn it every time it comes back in to go to a different student .
Do n't lock everything down all to hell .
When I was in school myself , we had unfettered Net access and admin accounts on every machine in the school , because no one knew it was even possible to try to lock a system down .
And we learned from it , and the sky did n't fall .
The world would n't be a worse place for a little less paranoia and a little more tinkering .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you quite serious?The school might get upset, and take disciplinary action, but we're most certainly not talking felony territory here.
A felony would be cracking into a system you don't have permission to use at all, or outright stealing a laptop (and even that, in many states, would depend how much the laptop is worth).
It's not a felony to use a machine you've been granted permission to use.
Now, certainly, if you go outside the scope of how you're supposed to use it, they might take it away and take internal disciplinary action, both of which are within their rights.
But I have no idea how you think this is a felony.That being said, even if it technically is, good on them for being willing to do it.
Let your students learn how things work, by tinkering with them (and if need be, learning how to break locks someone attempts to put on your stuff).
Give them full admin rights, make it crystal clear that the students (and parents) are fully and solely responsible for what's done with the machine, and wipe and reburn it every time it comes back in to go to a different student.
Don't lock everything down all to hell.
When I was in school myself, we had unfettered Net access and admin accounts on every machine in the school, because no one knew it was even possible to try to lock a system down.
And we learned from it, and the sky didn't fall.
The world wouldn't be a worse place for a little less paranoia and a little more tinkering.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31467866</id>
	<title>Re:Opportunism</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268483880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Presumably the FSF would feel a lot better about this if the students were being spied on from laptops running Linux with open-source spying software? We could mask the presence with an open-source rootkit...</p></div><p>The FSF isn't just about the GPL.  If the laptop is running a rootkit, then the students don't have access to look at all the software it's really running - so it's not really "free".  In that context, what they're doing makes perfect sense - if everyone has the right to examine, modify and redistribute the software that they are running, then no one call pull this sort of spying stunt on them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Presumably the FSF would feel a lot better about this if the students were being spied on from laptops running Linux with open-source spying software ?
We could mask the presence with an open-source rootkit...The FSF is n't just about the GPL .
If the laptop is running a rootkit , then the students do n't have access to look at all the software it 's really running - so it 's not really " free " .
In that context , what they 're doing makes perfect sense - if everyone has the right to examine , modify and redistribute the software that they are running , then no one call pull this sort of spying stunt on them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Presumably the FSF would feel a lot better about this if the students were being spied on from laptops running Linux with open-source spying software?
We could mask the presence with an open-source rootkit...The FSF isn't just about the GPL.
If the laptop is running a rootkit, then the students don't have access to look at all the software it's really running - so it's not really "free".
In that context, what they're doing makes perfect sense - if everyone has the right to examine, modify and redistribute the software that they are running, then no one call pull this sort of spying stunt on them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463860</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463804</id>
	<title>Re:I wonder about "Free"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268494440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's laughable that some GNU nuts think that C source code is impossible to obfuscate while proprietary software is impossible to disassemble!  Or maybe they think the CVS repositories their software comes from receive more eyeballs than products that have ~90\% desktop market share...  Ridiculous!</p><p>A person injecting backdoors into proprietary software would be identified, held accountable, and never work in the software industry again.  A company selling software with deliberate backdoors would quickly find itself exposed, boycotted, and out of business.  A person injecting harmful open source code, on the other hand, can remain perfectly anonymous, and the project maintainers would lose nothing.  It is also much easier to compromise one of countless CVS and mirror servers (and ISO's downloaded via BitTorrent especially) than it is to compromise shrink-wrapped software and updates that come from a centralized source.</p><p>It's true that Microsoft had habitually put usability (or "n00b appeal"), execution speed, and lower tech support costs ahead of security, but that is already starting to change.  Microsoft computers are more vulnerable because more n00bs use them - if they used Linux they'd be just as vulnerable or worse!  They're also more targeted by hackers for ideological anti-capitalist reasons, and by scammers because people who run Microsoft software are less likely to be broke college kids with nothing that's worth stealing.</p><p>All things being equal, proprietary software is always more secure than open source, at least because you know whose neck to choke if something goes wrong!</p><p>And remember that the entity most interested in spying on you is your government, who don't need to screw around with software in order to do it!  And governments love open source software, which after the collapse of the private software industry would be funded at tax-victim expense and ever more government control!</p><p>(Signed:  Alex Libman's sock-puppet)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's laughable that some GNU nuts think that C source code is impossible to obfuscate while proprietary software is impossible to disassemble !
Or maybe they think the CVS repositories their software comes from receive more eyeballs than products that have ~ 90 \ % desktop market share... Ridiculous ! A person injecting backdoors into proprietary software would be identified , held accountable , and never work in the software industry again .
A company selling software with deliberate backdoors would quickly find itself exposed , boycotted , and out of business .
A person injecting harmful open source code , on the other hand , can remain perfectly anonymous , and the project maintainers would lose nothing .
It is also much easier to compromise one of countless CVS and mirror servers ( and ISO 's downloaded via BitTorrent especially ) than it is to compromise shrink-wrapped software and updates that come from a centralized source.It 's true that Microsoft had habitually put usability ( or " n00b appeal " ) , execution speed , and lower tech support costs ahead of security , but that is already starting to change .
Microsoft computers are more vulnerable because more n00bs use them - if they used Linux they 'd be just as vulnerable or worse !
They 're also more targeted by hackers for ideological anti-capitalist reasons , and by scammers because people who run Microsoft software are less likely to be broke college kids with nothing that 's worth stealing.All things being equal , proprietary software is always more secure than open source , at least because you know whose neck to choke if something goes wrong ! And remember that the entity most interested in spying on you is your government , who do n't need to screw around with software in order to do it !
And governments love open source software , which after the collapse of the private software industry would be funded at tax-victim expense and ever more government control !
( Signed : Alex Libman 's sock-puppet )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's laughable that some GNU nuts think that C source code is impossible to obfuscate while proprietary software is impossible to disassemble!
Or maybe they think the CVS repositories their software comes from receive more eyeballs than products that have ~90\% desktop market share...  Ridiculous!A person injecting backdoors into proprietary software would be identified, held accountable, and never work in the software industry again.
A company selling software with deliberate backdoors would quickly find itself exposed, boycotted, and out of business.
A person injecting harmful open source code, on the other hand, can remain perfectly anonymous, and the project maintainers would lose nothing.
It is also much easier to compromise one of countless CVS and mirror servers (and ISO's downloaded via BitTorrent especially) than it is to compromise shrink-wrapped software and updates that come from a centralized source.It's true that Microsoft had habitually put usability (or "n00b appeal"), execution speed, and lower tech support costs ahead of security, but that is already starting to change.
Microsoft computers are more vulnerable because more n00bs use them - if they used Linux they'd be just as vulnerable or worse!
They're also more targeted by hackers for ideological anti-capitalist reasons, and by scammers because people who run Microsoft software are less likely to be broke college kids with nothing that's worth stealing.All things being equal, proprietary software is always more secure than open source, at least because you know whose neck to choke if something goes wrong!And remember that the entity most interested in spying on you is your government, who don't need to screw around with software in order to do it!
And governments love open source software, which after the collapse of the private software industry would be funded at tax-victim expense and ever more government control!
(Signed:  Alex Libman's sock-puppet)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464768</id>
	<title>Re:Opportunism</title>
	<author>PhysicsGeek42</author>
	<datestamp>1268504340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The FSF is not about open source software. The FSF is about protecting the personal freedoms of computer users. As such, a case like this where the privacy of computer users is compromised without their consent is of great interest to the FSF.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The FSF is not about open source software .
The FSF is about protecting the personal freedoms of computer users .
As such , a case like this where the privacy of computer users is compromised without their consent is of great interest to the FSF .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The FSF is not about open source software.
The FSF is about protecting the personal freedoms of computer users.
As such, a case like this where the privacy of computer users is compromised without their consent is of great interest to the FSF.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463860</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463680</id>
	<title>So when will RMS stop using his?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268493180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>When will RMS stop using his proprietary laptop?</htmltext>
<tokenext>When will RMS stop using his proprietary laptop ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When will RMS stop using his proprietary laptop?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463798</id>
	<title>Re:Meh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268494380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If it doesn't belong to you, you have no rights to do anything with it, without the owners permission.</p></div></blockquote><p>Some laws just beg to be broken.</p><p>God bless this kid for being ready to perpetrate crimes against the state at such an early age.</p><p>When he figures out that the real threat comes from corporate power over our lives, he'll be formidable.  We need more 16 year-olds like this.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If it does n't belong to you , you have no rights to do anything with it , without the owners permission.Some laws just beg to be broken.God bless this kid for being ready to perpetrate crimes against the state at such an early age.When he figures out that the real threat comes from corporate power over our lives , he 'll be formidable .
We need more 16 year-olds like this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it doesn't belong to you, you have no rights to do anything with it, without the owners permission.Some laws just beg to be broken.God bless this kid for being ready to perpetrate crimes against the state at such an early age.When he figures out that the real threat comes from corporate power over our lives, he'll be formidable.
We need more 16 year-olds like this.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463960</id>
	<title>Re:I wonder about "Free"</title>
	<author>pla</author>
	<datestamp>1268496240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>At some point, you have to take someone's word that the software you are loading on
your computer is "trustworthy", unless you're going to write it all yourself.</i> <br>
<br>
Yes and no.<br>
<br>
Yes, I don't personally audit every line of code I run on my computers, so in that sense I "trust"
the FOSS community to act as a pretty damned effective first-line defense against most of the common
crap commercial vendors try to pull (whether Sony rootkits or WGA or Energizer's recent scandal).<br>
<br>
But also "No", in that if I notice some suspicious activity in a program I use, I can
have the relevant source open in front of me five minutes later to see why it did what
it did - Did it just get confused by a DNS timeout?  Did it legitimately (it not
necessarily with my permission) try to update itself to handle my request?  Did it try to report
everything I've done in the past 24 hours to a remote server in China under the guise of
a "bug report"?  With commercial software, I can at best block its action at the firewall
and see what breaks; With FOSS, I can <b>know</b> what it did and act accordingly.<br>
<br>
<br>
<i>Free software isn't inherently more trustworthy, it simply moves the trust
relationship around.</i> <br>
<br>
Yep, it does.  And I'll trust a million strangers with no commercial interest in my
life over a single CEO who sees me as a "resource" any day of the week, thankyouverymuch.
And as a side-bonus, it also places more of that burden of trust right back on <b>my</b> shoulders.
And while I may not always act in my own best interest, I <b>do</b> unwaveringly trust myself.</htmltext>
<tokenext>At some point , you have to take someone 's word that the software you are loading on your computer is " trustworthy " , unless you 're going to write it all yourself .
Yes and no .
Yes , I do n't personally audit every line of code I run on my computers , so in that sense I " trust " the FOSS community to act as a pretty damned effective first-line defense against most of the common crap commercial vendors try to pull ( whether Sony rootkits or WGA or Energizer 's recent scandal ) .
But also " No " , in that if I notice some suspicious activity in a program I use , I can have the relevant source open in front of me five minutes later to see why it did what it did - Did it just get confused by a DNS timeout ?
Did it legitimately ( it not necessarily with my permission ) try to update itself to handle my request ?
Did it try to report everything I 've done in the past 24 hours to a remote server in China under the guise of a " bug report " ?
With commercial software , I can at best block its action at the firewall and see what breaks ; With FOSS , I can know what it did and act accordingly .
Free software is n't inherently more trustworthy , it simply moves the trust relationship around .
Yep , it does .
And I 'll trust a million strangers with no commercial interest in my life over a single CEO who sees me as a " resource " any day of the week , thankyouverymuch .
And as a side-bonus , it also places more of that burden of trust right back on my shoulders .
And while I may not always act in my own best interest , I do unwaveringly trust myself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At some point, you have to take someone's word that the software you are loading on
your computer is "trustworthy", unless you're going to write it all yourself.
Yes and no.
Yes, I don't personally audit every line of code I run on my computers, so in that sense I "trust"
the FOSS community to act as a pretty damned effective first-line defense against most of the common
crap commercial vendors try to pull (whether Sony rootkits or WGA or Energizer's recent scandal).
But also "No", in that if I notice some suspicious activity in a program I use, I can
have the relevant source open in front of me five minutes later to see why it did what
it did - Did it just get confused by a DNS timeout?
Did it legitimately (it not
necessarily with my permission) try to update itself to handle my request?
Did it try to report
everything I've done in the past 24 hours to a remote server in China under the guise of
a "bug report"?
With commercial software, I can at best block its action at the firewall
and see what breaks; With FOSS, I can know what it did and act accordingly.
Free software isn't inherently more trustworthy, it simply moves the trust
relationship around.
Yep, it does.
And I'll trust a million strangers with no commercial interest in my
life over a single CEO who sees me as a "resource" any day of the week, thankyouverymuch.
And as a side-bonus, it also places more of that burden of trust right back on my shoulders.
And while I may not always act in my own best interest, I do unwaveringly trust myself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463648</id>
	<title>Yet another example of "F"SF using gov force...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268492940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All schools should be private and accountable to their customers (i.e. parents / guardians).  Parents can even hire private services to spy on their kids via cameras and other means, in their own home or not.  But this is a case of "tragedy of the commons" - everyone gets the same crummy overpriced tyrannical one-size-fits-all solution, whether you like it or not.  Every time the government screws up, the socialists seize the opportunity to reward the government with more power and funding (their logic, not mine), and the "F"SF is no exception.</p><p>They already use government force as much as proprietary software does (if not more so, because proprietary software could exist without government through explicit privately-enforceable contracts, while copyleft could not), but they want more - a monopoly, government funding of socialist software, and then total government control of everything that has a microchip!</p><p>Real freedom comes from balance of power and free market competition, not blind faith in an all-powerful "authority"!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All schools should be private and accountable to their customers ( i.e .
parents / guardians ) .
Parents can even hire private services to spy on their kids via cameras and other means , in their own home or not .
But this is a case of " tragedy of the commons " - everyone gets the same crummy overpriced tyrannical one-size-fits-all solution , whether you like it or not .
Every time the government screws up , the socialists seize the opportunity to reward the government with more power and funding ( their logic , not mine ) , and the " F " SF is no exception.They already use government force as much as proprietary software does ( if not more so , because proprietary software could exist without government through explicit privately-enforceable contracts , while copyleft could not ) , but they want more - a monopoly , government funding of socialist software , and then total government control of everything that has a microchip ! Real freedom comes from balance of power and free market competition , not blind faith in an all-powerful " authority " !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All schools should be private and accountable to their customers (i.e.
parents / guardians).
Parents can even hire private services to spy on their kids via cameras and other means, in their own home or not.
But this is a case of "tragedy of the commons" - everyone gets the same crummy overpriced tyrannical one-size-fits-all solution, whether you like it or not.
Every time the government screws up, the socialists seize the opportunity to reward the government with more power and funding (their logic, not mine), and the "F"SF is no exception.They already use government force as much as proprietary software does (if not more so, because proprietary software could exist without government through explicit privately-enforceable contracts, while copyleft could not), but they want more - a monopoly, government funding of socialist software, and then total government control of everything that has a microchip!Real freedom comes from balance of power and free market competition, not blind faith in an all-powerful "authority"!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464860</id>
	<title>Re:people still don't know the real story in PA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268505120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's different for one very important reason:  The parents and children were never informed of the presence of this capability, and never had an opportunity to consent to it.  Furthermore, it's not clear if it would be legal even with informed consent.</p><p>Correcting your analogy of "getting caught smoking on the school surveillance cam", you could say that the school had extended its surveillance cam into every student's home.  Possibly legal?  I don't know, but certainly not without informing those parents/children that this is possible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's different for one very important reason : The parents and children were never informed of the presence of this capability , and never had an opportunity to consent to it .
Furthermore , it 's not clear if it would be legal even with informed consent.Correcting your analogy of " getting caught smoking on the school surveillance cam " , you could say that the school had extended its surveillance cam into every student 's home .
Possibly legal ?
I do n't know , but certainly not without informing those parents/children that this is possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's different for one very important reason:  The parents and children were never informed of the presence of this capability, and never had an opportunity to consent to it.
Furthermore, it's not clear if it would be legal even with informed consent.Correcting your analogy of "getting caught smoking on the school surveillance cam", you could say that the school had extended its surveillance cam into every student's home.
Possibly legal?
I don't know, but certainly not without informing those parents/children that this is possible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464046</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31465476</id>
	<title>Re:Great idea</title>
	<author>Dark\_Gravity</author>
	<datestamp>1268509740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I switched to GNU/Linux in 1998 because lights on my external modem flickered each time I used RealPlayer to play files that were on my own computer.</p></div><p>Did the lights on your modem flicker when using <a href="http://www.real.com/linux/" title="real.com" rel="nofollow">RealPlayer for Linux?</a> [real.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I switched to GNU/Linux in 1998 because lights on my external modem flickered each time I used RealPlayer to play files that were on my own computer.Did the lights on your modem flicker when using RealPlayer for Linux ?
[ real.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I switched to GNU/Linux in 1998 because lights on my external modem flickered each time I used RealPlayer to play files that were on my own computer.Did the lights on your modem flicker when using RealPlayer for Linux?
[real.com]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31468552</id>
	<title>Re:Meh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268489400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I use my home computer as a proxy to get past Web Sense...</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
That's odd.  So do I.  Use your home computer I mean.  BTW the RIAA wants to talk to you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I use my home computer as a proxy to get past Web Sense.. . That 's odd .
So do I. Use your home computer I mean .
BTW the RIAA wants to talk to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use my home computer as a proxy to get past Web Sense...

That's odd.
So do I.  Use your home computer I mean.
BTW the RIAA wants to talk to you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463824</id>
	<title>Re:I wonder about "Free"</title>
	<author>PopeRatzo</author>
	<datestamp>1268494500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Free software isn't inherently more trustworthy, it simply moves the trust relationship around.</p></div></blockquote><p>"Moving the trust around" is hardly as trivial as you make it sound.</p><p>In fact, it's the way truly free societies are supposed to work. You could sum up the philosophy of the US Constitution with the words "Move the Trust Around".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Free software is n't inherently more trustworthy , it simply moves the trust relationship around .
" Moving the trust around " is hardly as trivial as you make it sound.In fact , it 's the way truly free societies are supposed to work .
You could sum up the philosophy of the US Constitution with the words " Move the Trust Around " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Free software isn't inherently more trustworthy, it simply moves the trust relationship around.
"Moving the trust around" is hardly as trivial as you make it sound.In fact, it's the way truly free societies are supposed to work.
You could sum up the philosophy of the US Constitution with the words "Move the Trust Around".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463860</id>
	<title>Opportunism</title>
	<author>Ralish</author>
	<datestamp>1268495040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is it just me, or does this just reek of opportunism? What the school in question did was appalling, but it has nothing to do with the open-source vs. closed-source debate, or the proprietary vs. open debate, it's just raw and basic ethics. This is about people's basic right to privacy, as well as the ethical conduct of system administrators. Windows doesn't stop you installing open-source software, and Linux doesn't stop you installing proprietary software. Neither operating system will stop a system administrator from installing nasty software.</p><p>Presumably the FSF would feel a lot better about this if the students were being spied on from laptops running Linux with open-source spying software? We could mask the presence with an open-source rootkit, and upload the data to a FreeBSD server running Apache and a MySQL database. Then this would be just fine. Groups that hijack legitimate issues in order to advance their own agenda are sickening. Jack Thompson likes to do this to advocate video game restrictions, pro &amp; anti gun control groups do this whenever the latest gun violence story hits the news, and now the FSF joins in. I knew they'd been progressively losing sanity over the years, but I thought even this was beneath them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it just me , or does this just reek of opportunism ?
What the school in question did was appalling , but it has nothing to do with the open-source vs. closed-source debate , or the proprietary vs. open debate , it 's just raw and basic ethics .
This is about people 's basic right to privacy , as well as the ethical conduct of system administrators .
Windows does n't stop you installing open-source software , and Linux does n't stop you installing proprietary software .
Neither operating system will stop a system administrator from installing nasty software.Presumably the FSF would feel a lot better about this if the students were being spied on from laptops running Linux with open-source spying software ?
We could mask the presence with an open-source rootkit , and upload the data to a FreeBSD server running Apache and a MySQL database .
Then this would be just fine .
Groups that hijack legitimate issues in order to advance their own agenda are sickening .
Jack Thompson likes to do this to advocate video game restrictions , pro &amp; anti gun control groups do this whenever the latest gun violence story hits the news , and now the FSF joins in .
I knew they 'd been progressively losing sanity over the years , but I thought even this was beneath them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it just me, or does this just reek of opportunism?
What the school in question did was appalling, but it has nothing to do with the open-source vs. closed-source debate, or the proprietary vs. open debate, it's just raw and basic ethics.
This is about people's basic right to privacy, as well as the ethical conduct of system administrators.
Windows doesn't stop you installing open-source software, and Linux doesn't stop you installing proprietary software.
Neither operating system will stop a system administrator from installing nasty software.Presumably the FSF would feel a lot better about this if the students were being spied on from laptops running Linux with open-source spying software?
We could mask the presence with an open-source rootkit, and upload the data to a FreeBSD server running Apache and a MySQL database.
Then this would be just fine.
Groups that hijack legitimate issues in order to advance their own agenda are sickening.
Jack Thompson likes to do this to advocate video game restrictions, pro &amp; anti gun control groups do this whenever the latest gun violence story hits the news, and now the FSF joins in.
I knew they'd been progressively losing sanity over the years, but I thought even this was beneath them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31467816</id>
	<title>Re:I wonder about "Free"</title>
	<author>fast turtle</author>
	<datestamp>1268483580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hell I don't trust anyone at all, including me, myself and I becaue "Me has done things not in accordance with Long Term Goals - Myself has done things not in my own best interest - I because I have been PEBKAC stupid" so it's nice to see someone admit to trusting myself.</p><p>Seriously, these are the reasons I run as a standard user. It forces me to stop and think "Is this a good Idea" when something wants/demands admin privs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hell I do n't trust anyone at all , including me , myself and I becaue " Me has done things not in accordance with Long Term Goals - Myself has done things not in my own best interest - I because I have been PEBKAC stupid " so it 's nice to see someone admit to trusting myself.Seriously , these are the reasons I run as a standard user .
It forces me to stop and think " Is this a good Idea " when something wants/demands admin privs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hell I don't trust anyone at all, including me, myself and I becaue "Me has done things not in accordance with Long Term Goals - Myself has done things not in my own best interest - I because I have been PEBKAC stupid" so it's nice to see someone admit to trusting myself.Seriously, these are the reasons I run as a standard user.
It forces me to stop and think "Is this a good Idea" when something wants/demands admin privs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463960</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464136</id>
	<title>Re:Meh.</title>
	<author>bmo</author>
	<datestamp>1268498160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some free tech advice.  Take it or leave it.</p><p>Disabling DeepFreeze is silly, because it's far more effective at combating malware than any "close the barn door after the horse has bolted" anti-virus.</p><p>Maybe disabling DeepFreeze helps you get away from being net-nannied but then you become vulnerable to the likes of the Russian Business Network.</p><p>Enter DeepFreeze password<br>Make your changes (like your VPN)<br>Refreeze</p><p>Just make sure you put it back when you return the laptop, out of courtesy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some free tech advice .
Take it or leave it.Disabling DeepFreeze is silly , because it 's far more effective at combating malware than any " close the barn door after the horse has bolted " anti-virus.Maybe disabling DeepFreeze helps you get away from being net-nannied but then you become vulnerable to the likes of the Russian Business Network.Enter DeepFreeze passwordMake your changes ( like your VPN ) RefreezeJust make sure you put it back when you return the laptop , out of courtesy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some free tech advice.
Take it or leave it.Disabling DeepFreeze is silly, because it's far more effective at combating malware than any "close the barn door after the horse has bolted" anti-virus.Maybe disabling DeepFreeze helps you get away from being net-nannied but then you become vulnerable to the likes of the Russian Business Network.Enter DeepFreeze passwordMake your changes (like your VPN)RefreezeJust make sure you put it back when you return the laptop, out of courtesy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464970</id>
	<title>that is irelevent</title>
	<author>mjwalshe</author>
	<datestamp>1268506020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>its diferent as the system was set up in such a way that it would produce child porn - which is a strict liabilitry offence. If they just had an ability to track the location they would be fine.
<br> <br>
Why has the pricipal and the entire tech team not been suspened/fired and  be under investigation?</htmltext>
<tokenext>its diferent as the system was set up in such a way that it would produce child porn - which is a strict liabilitry offence .
If they just had an ability to track the location they would be fine .
Why has the pricipal and the entire tech team not been suspened/fired and be under investigation ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>its diferent as the system was set up in such a way that it would produce child porn - which is a strict liabilitry offence.
If they just had an ability to track the location they would be fine.
Why has the pricipal and the entire tech team not been suspened/fired and  be under investigation?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464046</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31466088</id>
	<title>FSF advocacy sucks ~= Linux usability sucks</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1268470860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Back in the early 80s, RMS decided the world needed Free Software.</p><p>A rather simple plan would seem to suffice:</p><ol><li>Build it</li><li>Advocate it</li></ol><p>Since a lot of people work on free software, the FSF has decided it doesn't need to focus its efforts on that any longer, but should rather advocate its viewpoints.</p><p>Building it required an understanding of software.  Advocating it requires an understanding of people.</p><p>Us nerds are often more plentifully endowed with technical competency compared to our skill with people.  RMS even more so.</p><p>And yeah, maybe he's not calling all the shots, but the FSF probably attracts a large concentration of nerds.  The selling points that go well with those who get into FSF by themselves might not be those you should use on the general public.</p><p>Similarly, Linux tends to attract tech savvy (and perhaps not so people savvy) people.  Those inmates tend to run the asylum, when it comes to usability, and they know what <em>they</em> want, which might not be the same thing as what everybody else wants (... in some cases, at least).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Back in the early 80s , RMS decided the world needed Free Software.A rather simple plan would seem to suffice : Build itAdvocate itSince a lot of people work on free software , the FSF has decided it does n't need to focus its efforts on that any longer , but should rather advocate its viewpoints.Building it required an understanding of software .
Advocating it requires an understanding of people.Us nerds are often more plentifully endowed with technical competency compared to our skill with people .
RMS even more so.And yeah , maybe he 's not calling all the shots , but the FSF probably attracts a large concentration of nerds .
The selling points that go well with those who get into FSF by themselves might not be those you should use on the general public.Similarly , Linux tends to attract tech savvy ( and perhaps not so people savvy ) people .
Those inmates tend to run the asylum , when it comes to usability , and they know what they want , which might not be the same thing as what everybody else wants ( ... in some cases , at least ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Back in the early 80s, RMS decided the world needed Free Software.A rather simple plan would seem to suffice:Build itAdvocate itSince a lot of people work on free software, the FSF has decided it doesn't need to focus its efforts on that any longer, but should rather advocate its viewpoints.Building it required an understanding of software.
Advocating it requires an understanding of people.Us nerds are often more plentifully endowed with technical competency compared to our skill with people.
RMS even more so.And yeah, maybe he's not calling all the shots, but the FSF probably attracts a large concentration of nerds.
The selling points that go well with those who get into FSF by themselves might not be those you should use on the general public.Similarly, Linux tends to attract tech savvy (and perhaps not so people savvy) people.
Those inmates tend to run the asylum, when it comes to usability, and they know what they want, which might not be the same thing as what everybody else wants (... in some cases, at least).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463860</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464300</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me?</title>
	<author>bmo</author>
	<datestamp>1268499420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, you don't get to monitor people through your network, unless it's for monitoring how the network is working.  Not without notification to the users (who in this case can't sign a contract legally).</p><p>You *do not* get <i>carte blanche</i> to monitor users simply because you spent money and built a network.  In order to do that, you need to get a waiver from the users of that network.</p><p>If you're going to secretly monitor minors using your network, you are a <b> <i>creepy fuck</i></b>  and you deserve to go to jail because you've just violated the ECPA.</p><p>*BMO throws a copy of the ECPA and a copy of Netlaw at your head*</p><p>--<br>BMO</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , you do n't get to monitor people through your network , unless it 's for monitoring how the network is working .
Not without notification to the users ( who in this case ca n't sign a contract legally ) .You * do not * get carte blanche to monitor users simply because you spent money and built a network .
In order to do that , you need to get a waiver from the users of that network.If you 're going to secretly monitor minors using your network , you are a creepy fuck and you deserve to go to jail because you 've just violated the ECPA .
* BMO throws a copy of the ECPA and a copy of Netlaw at your head * --BMO</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, you don't get to monitor people through your network, unless it's for monitoring how the network is working.
Not without notification to the users (who in this case can't sign a contract legally).You *do not* get carte blanche to monitor users simply because you spent money and built a network.
In order to do that, you need to get a waiver from the users of that network.If you're going to secretly monitor minors using your network, you are a  creepy fuck  and you deserve to go to jail because you've just violated the ECPA.
*BMO throws a copy of the ECPA and a copy of Netlaw at your head*--BMO</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463744</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464046</id>
	<title>people still don't know the real story in PA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268497200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Facts:
1. the school told students who did not pay the laptop fee to not remove the laptops from school

2. the kid's parents did not pay the fee

3. kide removed laptop

4. school staff randomly inventoried laptops

5. school staff discovered laptop missing

6. staff activated anti theft program...

Student broke rules and got busted, doesn't matter if it was a laptop or getting caught smoking on school surveilance web cam.


how is this any different than someone using MoblieMe to find their missing iphones??</htmltext>
<tokenext>Facts : 1. the school told students who did not pay the laptop fee to not remove the laptops from school 2. the kid 's parents did not pay the fee 3. kide removed laptop 4. school staff randomly inventoried laptops 5. school staff discovered laptop missing 6. staff activated anti theft program.. . Student broke rules and got busted , does n't matter if it was a laptop or getting caught smoking on school surveilance web cam .
how is this any different than someone using MoblieMe to find their missing iphones ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Facts:
1. the school told students who did not pay the laptop fee to not remove the laptops from school

2. the kid's parents did not pay the fee

3. kide removed laptop

4. school staff randomly inventoried laptops

5. school staff discovered laptop missing

6. staff activated anti theft program...

Student broke rules and got busted, doesn't matter if it was a laptop or getting caught smoking on school surveilance web cam.
how is this any different than someone using MoblieMe to find their missing iphones?
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463668</id>
	<title>Heart in right place.  Head somewhere else entirel</title>
	<author>bmo</author>
	<datestamp>1268493180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"so that the FSF can campaign against mandatory, proprietary laptops."</p><p>As if Free Non Proprietary Laptops won't in any way be used to spy on students.</p><p>THIS IS THE WRONG BATTLE, FSF.</p><p>The battle should be for privacy, not against proprietary laptops.</p><p>I say this as a Free Software user.</p><p>--<br>BMO</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" so that the FSF can campaign against mandatory , proprietary laptops .
" As if Free Non Proprietary Laptops wo n't in any way be used to spy on students.THIS IS THE WRONG BATTLE , FSF.The battle should be for privacy , not against proprietary laptops.I say this as a Free Software user.--BMO</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"so that the FSF can campaign against mandatory, proprietary laptops.
"As if Free Non Proprietary Laptops won't in any way be used to spy on students.THIS IS THE WRONG BATTLE, FSF.The battle should be for privacy, not against proprietary laptops.I say this as a Free Software user.--BMO</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31467708</id>
	<title>Re:Opportunism</title>
	<author>hduff</author>
	<datestamp>1268482740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Presumably the FSF would feel a lot better about this if the students were being spied on from laptops running Linux with open-source spying software? </p></div><p>Perhaps with Linux, the webcams would not have even worked if they required proprietary drivers? No spying then.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Presumably the FSF would feel a lot better about this if the students were being spied on from laptops running Linux with open-source spying software ?
Perhaps with Linux , the webcams would not have even worked if they required proprietary drivers ?
No spying then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Presumably the FSF would feel a lot better about this if the students were being spied on from laptops running Linux with open-source spying software?
Perhaps with Linux, the webcams would not have even worked if they required proprietary drivers?
No spying then.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463860</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463644</id>
	<title>Re:Meh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268492880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Um, dude - you've just admitted to a felony.  If it doesn't belong to you, you have no rights to do anything with it, without the owners permission.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Um , dude - you 've just admitted to a felony .
If it does n't belong to you , you have no rights to do anything with it , without the owners permission .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um, dude - you've just admitted to a felony.
If it doesn't belong to you, you have no rights to do anything with it, without the owners permission.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463546</id>
	<title>Great idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268491560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hopefully this situation will be a stepping stone to help the public understand the role that computers play in our personal lives.</p><p>I switched to GNU/Linux in 1998 because lights on my external modem flickered each time I used RealPlayer to play files that were on my own computer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hopefully this situation will be a stepping stone to help the public understand the role that computers play in our personal lives.I switched to GNU/Linux in 1998 because lights on my external modem flickered each time I used RealPlayer to play files that were on my own computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hopefully this situation will be a stepping stone to help the public understand the role that computers play in our personal lives.I switched to GNU/Linux in 1998 because lights on my external modem flickered each time I used RealPlayer to play files that were on my own computer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464772</id>
	<title>Re:Opportunism</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268504460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thank you. Very well said.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you .
Very well said .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you.
Very well said.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463860</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463966</id>
	<title>Re:Meh.</title>
	<author>Runaway1956</author>
	<datestamp>1268496240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dude, whatever you're smoking, I hope I never get any.</p><p>Felony?  Citation needed.  FELONY?!?!  Without credible citations, I have to say you're full of something smelly.  It's a school, and it's school property.  I suppose that if some kids in gym class try playing baseball with a soccer ball, they've committed a felony because they're using the ball in an unapproved manner?</p><p>Get real.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dude , whatever you 're smoking , I hope I never get any.Felony ?
Citation needed .
FELONY ? ! ? ! Without credible citations , I have to say you 're full of something smelly .
It 's a school , and it 's school property .
I suppose that if some kids in gym class try playing baseball with a soccer ball , they 've committed a felony because they 're using the ball in an unapproved manner ? Get real .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dude, whatever you're smoking, I hope I never get any.Felony?
Citation needed.
FELONY?!?!  Without credible citations, I have to say you're full of something smelly.
It's a school, and it's school property.
I suppose that if some kids in gym class try playing baseball with a soccer ball, they've committed a felony because they're using the ball in an unapproved manner?Get real.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464044</id>
	<title>Re:I wonder about "Free"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268497200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Forgot to mention that the next big leap in security is rewriting the operating system in managed code, and Microsoft is like 5 years ahead of open source in that effort already!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Forgot to mention that the next big leap in security is rewriting the operating system in managed code , and Microsoft is like 5 years ahead of open source in that effort already !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Forgot to mention that the next big leap in security is rewriting the operating system in managed code, and Microsoft is like 5 years ahead of open source in that effort already!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463804</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31466390</id>
	<title>Presumably...</title>
	<author>kenh</author>
	<datestamp>1268472720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>FSF can campaign against mandatory, proprietary laptops</p></div></blockquote><p>Presumably, optional proprietary laptops and mandatory open-source laptops are OK?</p><p>That's right, only closed-source software is used for nefarious purposes, right?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>FSF can campaign against mandatory , proprietary laptopsPresumably , optional proprietary laptops and mandatory open-source laptops are OK ? That 's right , only closed-source software is used for nefarious purposes , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FSF can campaign against mandatory, proprietary laptopsPresumably, optional proprietary laptops and mandatory open-source laptops are OK?That's right, only closed-source software is used for nefarious purposes, right?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31465714</id>
	<title>Re:Great idea</title>
	<author>hairyfeet</author>
	<datestamp>1268511600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the problem with this is the FSF is RMS. The man is so ultra radical he uses a <a href="http://richard.stallman.usesthis.com/" title="usesthis.com">Loongson Netbook</a> [usesthis.com] because that is the ONLY portable that fit his ultra radical idea of "free". So are the FSF gonna demand that school districts by truckloads of underpowered Loongson netbooks to be "free as in freedom"?</p><p> And according to TFA anything that runs Windows, OSX, Flash, hell pretty much any current tech except for a completely "free" Linux, excuse me, GNU-Linux, is totally out of your control and therefor they will fight it. problem with that is anybody who has tried to run a completely free Linux like GNUSense knows what a royal PITA that is. You can pretty much give up on off the shelf laptops because half the hardware won't work, so you are talking about having to have the schools design their own laptops to meet the FSF's definition of "free".</p><p>So I'm sorry, but the guy is a few bubbles off plumb. His idea of "free" is so radical and strict it excludes pretty much anything you can reasonably buy, and I don't know about you but if a school gave my kid a laptop I'd want it to be running something they might actually have a chance of using in the real world. lets be honest-the odds of a kid coming out of school and working for a business that uses Linux desktops, much less ultra strict Linux software that meets the FSF idea of free, is pretty much zip.</p><p>

 So while I'm completely against the spycam crap, once again instead of asking for a doable solution, like having Ubuntu or another user friendly distro included in the running to lower costs, the FSF uses what could have been a good situation for showing there are choices and turns into into another push for their ultra zealotry that wouldn't work for 99.999\% of the population. Yeah, that's really helpful there. Any school district with any common sense will take one look at the FSF and what they consider to be free and write them off as total loonies, which to be fair RMS kinda <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ&amp;feature=player\_embedded" title="youtube.com">is</a> [youtube.com].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the problem with this is the FSF is RMS .
The man is so ultra radical he uses a Loongson Netbook [ usesthis.com ] because that is the ONLY portable that fit his ultra radical idea of " free " .
So are the FSF gon na demand that school districts by truckloads of underpowered Loongson netbooks to be " free as in freedom " ?
And according to TFA anything that runs Windows , OSX , Flash , hell pretty much any current tech except for a completely " free " Linux , excuse me , GNU-Linux , is totally out of your control and therefor they will fight it .
problem with that is anybody who has tried to run a completely free Linux like GNUSense knows what a royal PITA that is .
You can pretty much give up on off the shelf laptops because half the hardware wo n't work , so you are talking about having to have the schools design their own laptops to meet the FSF 's definition of " free " .So I 'm sorry , but the guy is a few bubbles off plumb .
His idea of " free " is so radical and strict it excludes pretty much anything you can reasonably buy , and I do n't know about you but if a school gave my kid a laptop I 'd want it to be running something they might actually have a chance of using in the real world .
lets be honest-the odds of a kid coming out of school and working for a business that uses Linux desktops , much less ultra strict Linux software that meets the FSF idea of free , is pretty much zip .
So while I 'm completely against the spycam crap , once again instead of asking for a doable solution , like having Ubuntu or another user friendly distro included in the running to lower costs , the FSF uses what could have been a good situation for showing there are choices and turns into into another push for their ultra zealotry that would n't work for 99.999 \ % of the population .
Yeah , that 's really helpful there .
Any school district with any common sense will take one look at the FSF and what they consider to be free and write them off as total loonies , which to be fair RMS kinda is [ youtube.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the problem with this is the FSF is RMS.
The man is so ultra radical he uses a Loongson Netbook [usesthis.com] because that is the ONLY portable that fit his ultra radical idea of "free".
So are the FSF gonna demand that school districts by truckloads of underpowered Loongson netbooks to be "free as in freedom"?
And according to TFA anything that runs Windows, OSX, Flash, hell pretty much any current tech except for a completely "free" Linux, excuse me, GNU-Linux, is totally out of your control and therefor they will fight it.
problem with that is anybody who has tried to run a completely free Linux like GNUSense knows what a royal PITA that is.
You can pretty much give up on off the shelf laptops because half the hardware won't work, so you are talking about having to have the schools design their own laptops to meet the FSF's definition of "free".So I'm sorry, but the guy is a few bubbles off plumb.
His idea of "free" is so radical and strict it excludes pretty much anything you can reasonably buy, and I don't know about you but if a school gave my kid a laptop I'd want it to be running something they might actually have a chance of using in the real world.
lets be honest-the odds of a kid coming out of school and working for a business that uses Linux desktops, much less ultra strict Linux software that meets the FSF idea of free, is pretty much zip.
So while I'm completely against the spycam crap, once again instead of asking for a doable solution, like having Ubuntu or another user friendly distro included in the running to lower costs, the FSF uses what could have been a good situation for showing there are choices and turns into into another push for their ultra zealotry that wouldn't work for 99.999\% of the population.
Yeah, that's really helpful there.
Any school district with any common sense will take one look at the FSF and what they consider to be free and write them off as total loonies, which to be fair RMS kinda is [youtube.com].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464842</id>
	<title>Re:Great idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268504940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Moron, you switched to Linux to use a piece of shit media player that didn't ship with support for MP3 out the box and immature sound drivers when<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. da da daaaa.. you could have just switched to WinAMP like everyone else in '98.</p><p>Don't tell me you didn't notice the resemblance between WinAMP and that piece of shit who's name I forgot that shipped with most "distros" back then.</p><p>A REAL Windows hater switched to compile his own code.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Moron , you switched to Linux to use a piece of shit media player that did n't ship with support for MP3 out the box and immature sound drivers when .. da da daaaa.. you could have just switched to WinAMP like everyone else in '98.Do n't tell me you did n't notice the resemblance between WinAMP and that piece of shit who 's name I forgot that shipped with most " distros " back then.A REAL Windows hater switched to compile his own code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Moron, you switched to Linux to use a piece of shit media player that didn't ship with support for MP3 out the box and immature sound drivers when .. da da daaaa.. you could have just switched to WinAMP like everyone else in '98.Don't tell me you didn't notice the resemblance between WinAMP and that piece of shit who's name I forgot that shipped with most "distros" back then.A REAL Windows hater switched to compile his own code.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31465264</id>
	<title>Re:Yet another example of "F"SF using gov force...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268508000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How can you have any balance of power between a computer owner and a OS producer when that OS producer can control the information shared between them. This is a free market of  <p>[farmer]"Here is a big box with a healthy live pig in it, buy it from me", </p><p>[buyer]"Can I see the pig", </p><p>[farmer]"no"
</p><p>
Sure I could go to another pig farmer that does not crate up his pigs, or at least opens the box for inspection - oh, wait, that's open source.
</p><p>
Sometime an authority is needed because the pig buyer who cares to see the pig has no power to force the pig-in-the-box farmer to show it. There is no "balance of power"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How can you have any balance of power between a computer owner and a OS producer when that OS producer can control the information shared between them .
This is a free market of [ farmer ] " Here is a big box with a healthy live pig in it , buy it from me " , [ buyer ] " Can I see the pig " , [ farmer ] " no " Sure I could go to another pig farmer that does not crate up his pigs , or at least opens the box for inspection - oh , wait , that 's open source .
Sometime an authority is needed because the pig buyer who cares to see the pig has no power to force the pig-in-the-box farmer to show it .
There is no " balance of power "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How can you have any balance of power between a computer owner and a OS producer when that OS producer can control the information shared between them.
This is a free market of  [farmer]"Here is a big box with a healthy live pig in it, buy it from me", [buyer]"Can I see the pig", [farmer]"no"

Sure I could go to another pig farmer that does not crate up his pigs, or at least opens the box for inspection - oh, wait, that's open source.
Sometime an authority is needed because the pig buyer who cares to see the pig has no power to force the pig-in-the-box farmer to show it.
There is no "balance of power"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463648</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31468716</id>
	<title>Re:people still don't know the real story in PA</title>
	<author>Fnord666</author>
	<datestamp>1268490720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Facts: 1. the school told students who did not pay the laptop fee to not remove the laptops from school 2. the kid's parents did not pay the fee 3. kide removed laptop 4. school staff randomly inventoried laptops 5. school staff discovered laptop missing 6. staff activated anti theft program.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Citation needed please.  This is the first I have heard of items 2,4,5 and 6.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Facts : 1. the school told students who did not pay the laptop fee to not remove the laptops from school 2. the kid 's parents did not pay the fee 3. kide removed laptop 4. school staff randomly inventoried laptops 5. school staff discovered laptop missing 6. staff activated anti theft program .
Citation needed please .
This is the first I have heard of items 2,4,5 and 6 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Facts: 1. the school told students who did not pay the laptop fee to not remove the laptops from school 2. the kid's parents did not pay the fee 3. kide removed laptop 4. school staff randomly inventoried laptops 5. school staff discovered laptop missing 6. staff activated anti theft program.
Citation needed please.
This is the first I have heard of items 2,4,5 and 6.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464046</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464496</id>
	<title>Could not resist</title>
	<author>Max\_W</author>
	<datestamp>1268501460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Soviet Russia the laptop is watching you. No...wait...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Soviet Russia the laptop is watching you .
No...wait.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Soviet Russia the laptop is watching you.
No...wait...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464010</id>
	<title>Re:Meh.</title>
	<author>Low Ranked Craig</author>
	<datestamp>1268496720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wrong.  At most they'd have a civil case against him for the cost to restore the machine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wrong .
At most they 'd have a civil case against him for the cost to restore the machine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wrong.
At most they'd have a civil case against him for the cost to restore the machine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463644</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463768</id>
	<title>Governance</title>
	<author>DaveGod</author>
	<datestamp>1268494080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The issue isn't proprietary laptops nor the student's control over them. It's bad governance. A bad decision arising from good intentions simply not thought out nor with proper controls and disclosure in place. </p><p>With good governance they never should have made a decision that would so obviously bring the school into such disrepute. With proper controls they could demonstrate how the function could not be abused, or at a minimum that abuse would be detected. With proper disclosure the school kids and their parents could have objected and this farce never would have happened even with the school having made the bad decision. With proper disclosure there is an entirely different scope for alarm - spying on kids with their knowledge is appalling but without them knowing, that's really something. </p><p>Using non-proprietary laptops merely adds one avenue for detection of the wrongdoing here. It's trivial compared to the other causes of the failure that need to be rectified, starting with the removal of the entire board responsible for the decision because of their utterly incompetent governance. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The issue is n't proprietary laptops nor the student 's control over them .
It 's bad governance .
A bad decision arising from good intentions simply not thought out nor with proper controls and disclosure in place .
With good governance they never should have made a decision that would so obviously bring the school into such disrepute .
With proper controls they could demonstrate how the function could not be abused , or at a minimum that abuse would be detected .
With proper disclosure the school kids and their parents could have objected and this farce never would have happened even with the school having made the bad decision .
With proper disclosure there is an entirely different scope for alarm - spying on kids with their knowledge is appalling but without them knowing , that 's really something .
Using non-proprietary laptops merely adds one avenue for detection of the wrongdoing here .
It 's trivial compared to the other causes of the failure that need to be rectified , starting with the removal of the entire board responsible for the decision because of their utterly incompetent governance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The issue isn't proprietary laptops nor the student's control over them.
It's bad governance.
A bad decision arising from good intentions simply not thought out nor with proper controls and disclosure in place.
With good governance they never should have made a decision that would so obviously bring the school into such disrepute.
With proper controls they could demonstrate how the function could not be abused, or at a minimum that abuse would be detected.
With proper disclosure the school kids and their parents could have objected and this farce never would have happened even with the school having made the bad decision.
With proper disclosure there is an entirely different scope for alarm - spying on kids with their knowledge is appalling but without them knowing, that's really something.
Using non-proprietary laptops merely adds one avenue for detection of the wrongdoing here.
It's trivial compared to the other causes of the failure that need to be rectified, starting with the removal of the entire board responsible for the decision because of their utterly incompetent governance. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463568</id>
	<title>Let's not mince words.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268491740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone advocating the use of these spy laptops are two things:<br>1) <b>PERVERTS</b><br>2) <b>PEDOPHILES</b></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone advocating the use of these spy laptops are two things : 1 ) PERVERTS2 ) PEDOPHILES</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone advocating the use of these spy laptops are two things:1) PERVERTS2) PEDOPHILES</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463708</id>
	<title>Besides the point</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268493360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The author is completely besides the point:</p><p><i>When the software on your computer is proprietary, then you can't know whether the light is coming on because of a glitch or because the camera is actually running.</i><br>Unless you both know programming and have lots of time to dig into the code, you don't know either (and even then, the machine might have been manipulated already at the BIOS level, and may be hiding the changes from you).</p><p>But even more to the point: The original source he quotes explains:<br><i>The webcam couldn't be disabled due to tough security settings.</i><br>That is, the students had not been given all the control the operating system could provide them. The exact same could have happened under Linux, if they had not been given root privileges, or if the root rights were restricted through SELinux. Free Software doesn't magically get you into control of a system (inded, I'd have more control over a machine running a proprietary DOS than over one running Linux where I don't have root privilege).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The author is completely besides the point : When the software on your computer is proprietary , then you ca n't know whether the light is coming on because of a glitch or because the camera is actually running.Unless you both know programming and have lots of time to dig into the code , you do n't know either ( and even then , the machine might have been manipulated already at the BIOS level , and may be hiding the changes from you ) .But even more to the point : The original source he quotes explains : The webcam could n't be disabled due to tough security settings.That is , the students had not been given all the control the operating system could provide them .
The exact same could have happened under Linux , if they had not been given root privileges , or if the root rights were restricted through SELinux .
Free Software does n't magically get you into control of a system ( inded , I 'd have more control over a machine running a proprietary DOS than over one running Linux where I do n't have root privilege ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The author is completely besides the point:When the software on your computer is proprietary, then you can't know whether the light is coming on because of a glitch or because the camera is actually running.Unless you both know programming and have lots of time to dig into the code, you don't know either (and even then, the machine might have been manipulated already at the BIOS level, and may be hiding the changes from you).But even more to the point: The original source he quotes explains:The webcam couldn't be disabled due to tough security settings.That is, the students had not been given all the control the operating system could provide them.
The exact same could have happened under Linux, if they had not been given root privileges, or if the root rights were restricted through SELinux.
Free Software doesn't magically get you into control of a system (inded, I'd have more control over a machine running a proprietary DOS than over one running Linux where I don't have root privilege).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463744</id>
	<title>Excuse me?</title>
	<author>berryjw</author>
	<datestamp>1268493780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>For all those with a knee-jerk reaction to this, consider it from this perspective:  You've just spent millions of dollars, building a network infrastructure, programming servers and switches and routers, creating images and an environment to handle all of this, all for a very specific task.  You're saying there's *nothing wrong* with me using what you've built, however I want to, and you've no right to watch how I use it?   If so, I'm coming to your place, no reason for me to ever spend a dime on tech!  Hmm, does this logic apply to your car?  Or bank account???</htmltext>
<tokenext>For all those with a knee-jerk reaction to this , consider it from this perspective : You 've just spent millions of dollars , building a network infrastructure , programming servers and switches and routers , creating images and an environment to handle all of this , all for a very specific task .
You 're saying there 's * nothing wrong * with me using what you 've built , however I want to , and you 've no right to watch how I use it ?
If so , I 'm coming to your place , no reason for me to ever spend a dime on tech !
Hmm , does this logic apply to your car ?
Or bank account ? ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For all those with a knee-jerk reaction to this, consider it from this perspective:  You've just spent millions of dollars, building a network infrastructure, programming servers and switches and routers, creating images and an environment to handle all of this, all for a very specific task.
You're saying there's *nothing wrong* with me using what you've built, however I want to, and you've no right to watch how I use it?
If so, I'm coming to your place, no reason for me to ever spend a dime on tech!
Hmm, does this logic apply to your car?
Or bank account??
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463758</id>
	<title>Re:I wonder about "Free"</title>
	<author>dfcamara</author>
	<datestamp>1268493960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Free software IS inherently more trustworthy. Maybe it's not that easy to audit, or that isn't enough people auditing every major project, but it's in a degree above of audibility from closed source applications.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Free software IS inherently more trustworthy .
Maybe it 's not that easy to audit , or that is n't enough people auditing every major project , but it 's in a degree above of audibility from closed source applications .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Free software IS inherently more trustworthy.
Maybe it's not that easy to audit, or that isn't enough people auditing every major project, but it's in a degree above of audibility from closed source applications.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463558</id>
	<title>Meh.</title>
	<author>XPeter</author>
	<datestamp>1268491680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At the high school I attend, all the desktops and laptops allowed on school property have a form of remote monitoring installed (Web Sense, NetOps, along with Deep Freeze).</p><p>The problem is relatively easy to fix, though.  I use my home computer as a proxy to get past Web Sense, and give myself admin rights to disable the NetOps and Deep Freeze.  All students should know how to do this, and I teach as many how to as I can. Fuck the "monitoring" they do, this isn't China.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At the high school I attend , all the desktops and laptops allowed on school property have a form of remote monitoring installed ( Web Sense , NetOps , along with Deep Freeze ) .The problem is relatively easy to fix , though .
I use my home computer as a proxy to get past Web Sense , and give myself admin rights to disable the NetOps and Deep Freeze .
All students should know how to do this , and I teach as many how to as I can .
Fuck the " monitoring " they do , this is n't China .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At the high school I attend, all the desktops and laptops allowed on school property have a form of remote monitoring installed (Web Sense, NetOps, along with Deep Freeze).The problem is relatively easy to fix, though.
I use my home computer as a proxy to get past Web Sense, and give myself admin rights to disable the NetOps and Deep Freeze.
All students should know how to do this, and I teach as many how to as I can.
Fuck the "monitoring" they do, this isn't China.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31464224</id>
	<title>Re:Heart in right place. Head somewhere else entir</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268498760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; The battle should be for privacy, not against proprietary laptops</p><p>Yes, exactly.  The only reason there is no remote camera monitoring software for free OSs is that there aren't enough of them around in such environments for anyone to have bothered to write it.  There's nothing whatsoever about an open source OS that would prevent the school from monitoring students using that.</p><p>The real issue here is privacy, as the parent post says.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; The battle should be for privacy , not against proprietary laptopsYes , exactly .
The only reason there is no remote camera monitoring software for free OSs is that there are n't enough of them around in such environments for anyone to have bothered to write it .
There 's nothing whatsoever about an open source OS that would prevent the school from monitoring students using that.The real issue here is privacy , as the parent post says .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; The battle should be for privacy, not against proprietary laptopsYes, exactly.
The only reason there is no remote camera monitoring software for free OSs is that there aren't enough of them around in such environments for anyone to have bothered to write it.
There's nothing whatsoever about an open source OS that would prevent the school from monitoring students using that.The real issue here is privacy, as the parent post says.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463668</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463778</id>
	<title>Re:Meh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1268494200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I call BS.</p><p>How is that a felony?  Explain using examples and US law.</p><p>I'll wait right here.</p><p>--<br>BMO</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I call BS.How is that a felony ?
Explain using examples and US law.I 'll wait right here.--BMO</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I call BS.How is that a felony?
Explain using examples and US law.I'll wait right here.--BMO</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_13_0537200.31463644</parent>
</comment>
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