<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_04_1315210</id>
	<title>Why PyCon 2010's Conference Wi-Fi Didn't Melt Down</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1267710360000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>jafo writes <i>"There's been <a href="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2009/10/08.html">a lot</a> of <a href="http://www.inc.com/magazine/20091201/when-and-how-to-micromanage.html">teeth</a> <a href="http://serverfault.com/questions/72767/why-is-internet-access-and-wi-fi-always-so-terrible-at-large-tech-conferences">gnashing</a> going on recently about broken wireless at conferences.  We just wrapped up PyCon 2010, with around 600 (out of 1,000) attendees simultaneously accessing the volunteer-run network, and response has been fairly positive. 2.4GHz (802.11b/g) continues to be problematic, but most users were on 5.2GHz (using 802.11n) and associating at 130mbps, with a 100mbps link to the net (though after the fact we found that 35mbps would have sufficed). My PyCon 2010 wrap-up <a href="http://www.tummy.com/Community/Articles/pycon2010-network/">reveals all the secrets of how we did it</a>, including pretty bandwidth and user graphs."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>jafo writes " There 's been a lot of teeth gnashing going on recently about broken wireless at conferences .
We just wrapped up PyCon 2010 , with around 600 ( out of 1,000 ) attendees simultaneously accessing the volunteer-run network , and response has been fairly positive .
2.4GHz ( 802.11b/g ) continues to be problematic , but most users were on 5.2GHz ( using 802.11n ) and associating at 130mbps , with a 100mbps link to the net ( though after the fact we found that 35mbps would have sufficed ) .
My PyCon 2010 wrap-up reveals all the secrets of how we did it , including pretty bandwidth and user graphs .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>jafo writes "There's been a lot of teeth gnashing going on recently about broken wireless at conferences.
We just wrapped up PyCon 2010, with around 600 (out of 1,000) attendees simultaneously accessing the volunteer-run network, and response has been fairly positive.
2.4GHz (802.11b/g) continues to be problematic, but most users were on 5.2GHz (using 802.11n) and associating at 130mbps, with a 100mbps link to the net (though after the fact we found that 35mbps would have sufficed).
My PyCon 2010 wrap-up reveals all the secrets of how we did it, including pretty bandwidth and user graphs.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357330</id>
	<title>Maybe nobody cared enough to have it melting?$</title>
	<author>Adolf Hitroll</author>
	<datestamp>1267714140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>nt</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>nt</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nt</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358412</id>
	<title>Re:IETF meetings solved this 2 years ago</title>
	<author>mi</author>
	<datestamp>1267720920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>IETF meetings are larger (1200+ typically), and basically everyone has an uses a laptop / pda, so they make for a demanding wireless environment. After some really bad experiences, <strong>resources were put into this</strong> [emphasis mine -mi], and the last few years, things have really improved.</p></div></blockquote><p>At what point does it become cheaper (or comparable) to just run a CAT6 cable to every seat in the conference room? I mean, movie theaters and airplanes have that for headphones. Every laptop I've seen has an Ethernet jack... You spend some more money <em>once</em>, but then save on every event... And you provide better service &mdash; while emitting less radiation and consuming less electricity (would somebody think of the polar bears?!)...

</p><p>Those few devices, that only have WiFi can still use wireless, but, if the bulk of your audience use cables, you can get away with cheap "SoHo" equipment...

</p><p>When renovating my house, I ran CAT6 to every room &mdash; the number of power outlets is only 4 times higher, than<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>IETF meetings are larger ( 1200 + typically ) , and basically everyone has an uses a laptop / pda , so they make for a demanding wireless environment .
After some really bad experiences , resources were put into this [ emphasis mine -mi ] , and the last few years , things have really improved.At what point does it become cheaper ( or comparable ) to just run a CAT6 cable to every seat in the conference room ?
I mean , movie theaters and airplanes have that for headphones .
Every laptop I 've seen has an Ethernet jack... You spend some more money once , but then save on every event... And you provide better service    while emitting less radiation and consuming less electricity ( would somebody think of the polar bears ? ! ) .. .
Those few devices , that only have WiFi can still use wireless , but , if the bulk of your audience use cables , you can get away with cheap " SoHo " equipment.. . When renovating my house , I ran CAT6 to every room    the number of power outlets is only 4 times higher , than : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IETF meetings are larger (1200+ typically), and basically everyone has an uses a laptop / pda, so they make for a demanding wireless environment.
After some really bad experiences, resources were put into this [emphasis mine -mi], and the last few years, things have really improved.At what point does it become cheaper (or comparable) to just run a CAT6 cable to every seat in the conference room?
I mean, movie theaters and airplanes have that for headphones.
Every laptop I've seen has an Ethernet jack... You spend some more money once, but then save on every event... And you provide better service — while emitting less radiation and consuming less electricity (would somebody think of the polar bears?!)...
Those few devices, that only have WiFi can still use wireless, but, if the bulk of your audience use cables, you can get away with cheap "SoHo" equipment...

When renovating my house, I ran CAT6 to every room — the number of power outlets is only 4 times higher, than :-)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357708</id>
	<title>Hmm, other equipment options?</title>
	<author>Andy Dodd</author>
	<datestamp>1267716600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't like the dual-band routers much - they always seem to do a crap job serving both bands, even in the rare cases that the router supports it.</p><p>$300 each for those Netgear APs sounds ridiculous when you can get carrier-grade equipment (such as Ubiqiti Rocket series units) for far less.  Instead of getting dual-band stuff, just set up independent 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz networks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't like the dual-band routers much - they always seem to do a crap job serving both bands , even in the rare cases that the router supports it. $ 300 each for those Netgear APs sounds ridiculous when you can get carrier-grade equipment ( such as Ubiqiti Rocket series units ) for far less .
Instead of getting dual-band stuff , just set up independent 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz networks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't like the dual-band routers much - they always seem to do a crap job serving both bands, even in the rare cases that the router supports it.$300 each for those Netgear APs sounds ridiculous when you can get carrier-grade equipment (such as Ubiqiti Rocket series units) for far less.
Instead of getting dual-band stuff, just set up independent 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz networks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31360202</id>
	<title>Re:On units and their prefixes</title>
	<author>bdwebb</author>
	<datestamp>1267728540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>FYI...just because the unit of measure is capitalized does not mean the data that the article contains is invalid.  That's like saying 'Holy shit...I can't believe this article misspelled they're instead of their.  I can't read this shit!'  Granted, spelling and syntax issues are worth noting, but he clearly states mbps in his article and doing some deductive reasoning one can infer that the graph's numbers, being mentioned in the discussion, are related to the discussion.

Also, he is not necessarily incorrect using M because mbps is frequently written as Mbps due to the fact that the standard format for the prefix 'Mega' in units is a capital M.  This is the same for MBps excepting that the B is also capitalized here because it is 'Bytes' instead of 'bits'.  Further, I don't quite understand what your problem with bps instead of b/s is.  They are both the same thing and neither one is the real formal bit/s.  You like to write it b/s, he likes to write it bps.

I don't see that your 'issues' with this article have any merit and certainly neither of your 'issues' is serious enough to say 'OMG editor!! PLZ READ ARTICLES B4 ACCEPTING!!! How can you miss such glaring nonexistent flaws?!?!?!11!!?!@'</htmltext>
<tokenext>FYI...just because the unit of measure is capitalized does not mean the data that the article contains is invalid .
That 's like saying 'Holy shit...I ca n't believe this article misspelled they 're instead of their .
I ca n't read this shit !
' Granted , spelling and syntax issues are worth noting , but he clearly states mbps in his article and doing some deductive reasoning one can infer that the graph 's numbers , being mentioned in the discussion , are related to the discussion .
Also , he is not necessarily incorrect using M because mbps is frequently written as Mbps due to the fact that the standard format for the prefix 'Mega ' in units is a capital M. This is the same for MBps excepting that the B is also capitalized here because it is 'Bytes ' instead of 'bits' .
Further , I do n't quite understand what your problem with bps instead of b/s is .
They are both the same thing and neither one is the real formal bit/s .
You like to write it b/s , he likes to write it bps .
I do n't see that your 'issues ' with this article have any merit and certainly neither of your 'issues ' is serious enough to say 'OMG editor ! !
PLZ READ ARTICLES B4 ACCEPTING ! ! !
How can you miss such glaring nonexistent flaws ? ! ? ! ? ! 11 ! ! ? !
@ '</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FYI...just because the unit of measure is capitalized does not mean the data that the article contains is invalid.
That's like saying 'Holy shit...I can't believe this article misspelled they're instead of their.
I can't read this shit!
'  Granted, spelling and syntax issues are worth noting, but he clearly states mbps in his article and doing some deductive reasoning one can infer that the graph's numbers, being mentioned in the discussion, are related to the discussion.
Also, he is not necessarily incorrect using M because mbps is frequently written as Mbps due to the fact that the standard format for the prefix 'Mega' in units is a capital M.  This is the same for MBps excepting that the B is also capitalized here because it is 'Bytes' instead of 'bits'.
Further, I don't quite understand what your problem with bps instead of b/s is.
They are both the same thing and neither one is the real formal bit/s.
You like to write it b/s, he likes to write it bps.
I don't see that your 'issues' with this article have any merit and certainly neither of your 'issues' is serious enough to say 'OMG editor!!
PLZ READ ARTICLES B4 ACCEPTING!!!
How can you miss such glaring nonexistent flaws?!?!?!11!!?!
@'</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357874</id>
	<title>Re:On units and their prefixes</title>
	<author>Lordnerdzrool</author>
	<datestamp>1267717740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most books on computer networks that I have seen use bps. But I haven't seen many. I suppose the counter question would then be: What's wrong with "bps" instead of "b/s"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most books on computer networks that I have seen use bps .
But I have n't seen many .
I suppose the counter question would then be : What 's wrong with " bps " instead of " b/s " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most books on computer networks that I have seen use bps.
But I haven't seen many.
I suppose the counter question would then be: What's wrong with "bps" instead of "b/s"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357506</id>
	<title>I want to illustrate "Offtopic" to that mod...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267715400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>who modded the parent as "Offtopic"</p><p>Regardless of how much oil will drill for and even if every well is a gusher, the long term price trend for oil will be up. Even if supplies increase three fold, oil prices will continue to go up.</p><p>Now, the zipperheads on AM talk radio will say "drill here! drill now!" but the fact is the demand part is increasing dramatically because of Asia. We would need to find 10 Saudi Arabias (230 billion barrels of reserves) to keep prices stable of the long term - 20 -50 years. Ain't gonna happen. ANWAR has only 12 billion barrels of estimated reserves - the optimistic estimate. AM Radio jockeys have been talking out of their ass (as usual) in saying there's as much oil up there as Saudi Arabia.</p><p>That's offtopic. </p><p>Criticizing about units isn't - moron.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>who modded the parent as " Offtopic " Regardless of how much oil will drill for and even if every well is a gusher , the long term price trend for oil will be up .
Even if supplies increase three fold , oil prices will continue to go up.Now , the zipperheads on AM talk radio will say " drill here !
drill now !
" but the fact is the demand part is increasing dramatically because of Asia .
We would need to find 10 Saudi Arabias ( 230 billion barrels of reserves ) to keep prices stable of the long term - 20 -50 years .
Ai n't gon na happen .
ANWAR has only 12 billion barrels of estimated reserves - the optimistic estimate .
AM Radio jockeys have been talking out of their ass ( as usual ) in saying there 's as much oil up there as Saudi Arabia.That 's offtopic .
Criticizing about units is n't - moron .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>who modded the parent as "Offtopic"Regardless of how much oil will drill for and even if every well is a gusher, the long term price trend for oil will be up.
Even if supplies increase three fold, oil prices will continue to go up.Now, the zipperheads on AM talk radio will say "drill here!
drill now!
" but the fact is the demand part is increasing dramatically because of Asia.
We would need to find 10 Saudi Arabias (230 billion barrels of reserves) to keep prices stable of the long term - 20 -50 years.
Ain't gonna happen.
ANWAR has only 12 billion barrels of estimated reserves - the optimistic estimate.
AM Radio jockeys have been talking out of their ass (as usual) in saying there's as much oil up there as Saudi Arabia.That's offtopic.
Criticizing about units isn't - moron.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357618</id>
	<title>Re:On units and their prefixes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267716060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext> &amp;#253;&amp;yen;&amp;#9564;&amp;#9688; &amp;#235; &amp;#8595;&amp;#167;F'&amp;#252;&amp;#9675;R&amp;#176;&amp;#9566;zu"c</htmltext>
<tokenext>                 F '      R      zu " c</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ý¥╜◘ ë ↓§F'ü○R°╞zu"c</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31361072</id>
	<title>Re:This year I tried to get public IPs again...</title>
	<author>david\_thornley</author>
	<datestamp>1267732860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
The network was set up with low-end gear and a lot of ingenuity to save money.  I don't have a whole lot of experience here, but I haven't had a low-end router yet that understood IPv6.  I'd really like that to change, but I think it's going to be a few years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The network was set up with low-end gear and a lot of ingenuity to save money .
I do n't have a whole lot of experience here , but I have n't had a low-end router yet that understood IPv6 .
I 'd really like that to change , but I think it 's going to be a few years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
The network was set up with low-end gear and a lot of ingenuity to save money.
I don't have a whole lot of experience here, but I haven't had a low-end router yet that understood IPv6.
I'd really like that to change, but I think it's going to be a few years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357352</id>
	<title>Easy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267714320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They redirected all requests to goatse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They redirected all requests to goatse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They redirected all requests to goatse.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31363206</id>
	<title>Re:I avoid conference WiFi's...</title>
	<author>jafo</author>
	<datestamp>1267699320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That is a good point, but as the SXSW show has shown, you can't count on the cellular networks being able to handle a huge concentration of users either.  PyCon probably isn't big enough (with reasonable local networking particularly) to need extra cellular resources brought in for the show.  But for some shows it's probably worth trying to develop those contacts at the cell companies.<br><br>Sean</htmltext>
<tokenext>That is a good point , but as the SXSW show has shown , you ca n't count on the cellular networks being able to handle a huge concentration of users either .
PyCon probably is n't big enough ( with reasonable local networking particularly ) to need extra cellular resources brought in for the show .
But for some shows it 's probably worth trying to develop those contacts at the cell companies.Sean</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is a good point, but as the SXSW show has shown, you can't count on the cellular networks being able to handle a huge concentration of users either.
PyCon probably isn't big enough (with reasonable local networking particularly) to need extra cellular resources brought in for the show.
But for some shows it's probably worth trying to develop those contacts at the cell companies.Sean</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357360</id>
	<title>Typo in model number</title>
	<author>madsci1016</author>
	<datestamp>1267714380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The AP he used was a Netgear WNDAP350. There was a typo in the article.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The AP he used was a Netgear WNDAP350 .
There was a typo in the article .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The AP he used was a Netgear WNDAP350.
There was a typo in the article.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31359314</id>
	<title>anyone know FOSDEM's setup?</title>
	<author>AceJohnny</author>
	<datestamp>1267724940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This year's <a href="http://www.fosdem.org/" title="fosdem.org">FOSDEM</a> [fosdem.org] in Bruxelles had over 2400 unique MAC addresses and 3600 visitors a day(<a href="http://twitter.com/fosdem/status/8802602765" title="twitter.com">source</a> [twitter.com]). We enjoyed a 1Gbps pipe, and <a href="http://twitter.com/fosdem/status/8758612000" title="twitter.com">far from saturated</a> [twitter.com] it.</p><p>It was overall of excellent quality, though there was a glitch in at least one of the hacker rooms where the operators had to upgrade the AP firmware. The geographic setup was more broken out: FOSDEM happens at the Universite Libre de Belgique (how appropriate), with talks in lots of classrooms spread across a few buildings.</p><p>It would be useful for everyone if they could post a writeup of their infrastructure.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This year 's FOSDEM [ fosdem.org ] in Bruxelles had over 2400 unique MAC addresses and 3600 visitors a day ( source [ twitter.com ] ) .
We enjoyed a 1Gbps pipe , and far from saturated [ twitter.com ] it.It was overall of excellent quality , though there was a glitch in at least one of the hacker rooms where the operators had to upgrade the AP firmware .
The geographic setup was more broken out : FOSDEM happens at the Universite Libre de Belgique ( how appropriate ) , with talks in lots of classrooms spread across a few buildings.It would be useful for everyone if they could post a writeup of their infrastructure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This year's FOSDEM [fosdem.org] in Bruxelles had over 2400 unique MAC addresses and 3600 visitors a day(source [twitter.com]).
We enjoyed a 1Gbps pipe, and far from saturated [twitter.com] it.It was overall of excellent quality, though there was a glitch in at least one of the hacker rooms where the operators had to upgrade the AP firmware.
The geographic setup was more broken out: FOSDEM happens at the Universite Libre de Belgique (how appropriate), with talks in lots of classrooms spread across a few buildings.It would be useful for everyone if they could post a writeup of their infrastructure.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31361426</id>
	<title>umm</title>
	<author>nomadic</author>
	<datestamp>1267734660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So some people did their job, and they write themselves a news story celebrating themselves?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So some people did their job , and they write themselves a news story celebrating themselves ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So some people did their job, and they write themselves a news story celebrating themselves?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31367984</id>
	<title>Re:I avoid conference WiFi's...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267731180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At least in Finland you can get pay-in-advance 3g sim (max. 3Mbit) for less than 8&euro;/week. My friend has one since he has bad credit and can't easily get permanent connection which would of course be cheaper. He's been pretty happy with it, often stays online for days according to IRC logs. Download speed is between 1.5 and 2.0Mbit, upload much slower.<br>Living in Joensuu, North Karelia.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At least in Finland you can get pay-in-advance 3g sim ( max .
3Mbit ) for less than 8    /week .
My friend has one since he has bad credit and ca n't easily get permanent connection which would of course be cheaper .
He 's been pretty happy with it , often stays online for days according to IRC logs .
Download speed is between 1.5 and 2.0Mbit , upload much slower.Living in Joensuu , North Karelia .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least in Finland you can get pay-in-advance 3g sim (max.
3Mbit) for less than 8€/week.
My friend has one since he has bad credit and can't easily get permanent connection which would of course be cheaper.
He's been pretty happy with it, often stays online for days according to IRC logs.
Download speed is between 1.5 and 2.0Mbit, upload much slower.Living in Joensuu, North Karelia.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357968</id>
	<title>The tummy people are great</title>
	<author>mmcgrath</author>
	<datestamp>1267718460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Tummy sponsors some hosts for the Fedora Project (I'm a Fedora contributor) and they're just all around good people.  If you're looking for hosting give them a serious consideration:

<a href="http://tummy.com/" title="tummy.com" rel="nofollow">http://tummy.com/</a> [tummy.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tummy sponsors some hosts for the Fedora Project ( I 'm a Fedora contributor ) and they 're just all around good people .
If you 're looking for hosting give them a serious consideration : http : //tummy.com/ [ tummy.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tummy sponsors some hosts for the Fedora Project (I'm a Fedora contributor) and they're just all around good people.
If you're looking for hosting give them a serious consideration:

http://tummy.com/ [tummy.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357944</id>
	<title>Learning is knowledge</title>
	<author>adosch</author>
	<datestamp>1267718280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...So you pretty much learned:
<ul>
<li>Not to be a novice and get your enterprise and common-sense hat on for a big event? </li><li>How to a proper WIFI site survery prior to deployment?</li><li>Not to make your own hacked-together setup (This isn't your mom's basement, buy/use legitimate, reputable and trusted equipment, cabling, software, ect.</li><li>Using SOHO/home networking equipment for THAT many potential users?</li></ul><p>Learning is good and you were successful for the most part.  Regardless of the downplay of comments you'll receive here on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. on what you did, it's what you took away from it and how to make it better for next year is what will make you great.  That's how we all learn is by things like this.  Anyone to admit otherwise is a more than likely a liar.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...So you pretty much learned : Not to be a novice and get your enterprise and common-sense hat on for a big event ?
How to a proper WIFI site survery prior to deployment ? Not to make your own hacked-together setup ( This is n't your mom 's basement , buy/use legitimate , reputable and trusted equipment , cabling , software , ect.Using SOHO/home networking equipment for THAT many potential users ? Learning is good and you were successful for the most part .
Regardless of the downplay of comments you 'll receive here on / .
on what you did , it 's what you took away from it and how to make it better for next year is what will make you great .
That 's how we all learn is by things like this .
Anyone to admit otherwise is a more than likely a liar .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...So you pretty much learned:

Not to be a novice and get your enterprise and common-sense hat on for a big event?
How to a proper WIFI site survery prior to deployment?Not to make your own hacked-together setup (This isn't your mom's basement, buy/use legitimate, reputable and trusted equipment, cabling, software, ect.Using SOHO/home networking equipment for THAT many potential users?Learning is good and you were successful for the most part.
Regardless of the downplay of comments you'll receive here on /.
on what you did, it's what you took away from it and how to make it better for next year is what will make you great.
That's how we all learn is by things like this.
Anyone to admit otherwise is a more than likely a liar.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31368350</id>
	<title>Some questions:</title>
	<author>GWBasic</author>
	<datestamp>1267821960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some questions:
<ul><li>Why do you need a few minutes to talk about the network?  It seems to me that 30 seconds spent listing the network names, passwords, and wired port locations is more then enough.  Assuming it's an open network; the 600 people who used it didn't need to talk about it.  Perhaps some "network posters" would be more helpful as they can be referenced throughout the convention</li></ul><ul><li>What's wrong with NAT?  It's the norm when using an open network; and it gives you (and the attendees) an ounce of protection.</li></ul></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some questions : Why do you need a few minutes to talk about the network ?
It seems to me that 30 seconds spent listing the network names , passwords , and wired port locations is more then enough .
Assuming it 's an open network ; the 600 people who used it did n't need to talk about it .
Perhaps some " network posters " would be more helpful as they can be referenced throughout the conventionWhat 's wrong with NAT ?
It 's the norm when using an open network ; and it gives you ( and the attendees ) an ounce of protection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some questions:
Why do you need a few minutes to talk about the network?
It seems to me that 30 seconds spent listing the network names, passwords, and wired port locations is more then enough.
Assuming it's an open network; the 600 people who used it didn't need to talk about it.
Perhaps some "network posters" would be more helpful as they can be referenced throughout the conventionWhat's wrong with NAT?
It's the norm when using an open network; and it gives you (and the attendees) an ounce of protection.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358222</id>
	<title>stating the obvious</title>
	<author>malp</author>
	<datestamp>1267720020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's a certain type of person who thinks that simple statements of truth are either wrong, stupid, or unnecessary. These people had a field day ridiculing Newton when he presented his 3 laws of motion.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a certain type of person who thinks that simple statements of truth are either wrong , stupid , or unnecessary .
These people had a field day ridiculing Newton when he presented his 3 laws of motion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a certain type of person who thinks that simple statements of truth are either wrong, stupid, or unnecessary.
These people had a field day ridiculing Newton when he presented his 3 laws of motion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357938</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357518</id>
	<title>Nothing to see here, move along</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267715400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://serverfault.com/questions/72767/why-is-internet-access-and-wifi-always-so-terrible-at-large-tech-conferences" title="serverfault.com">http://serverfault.com/questions/72767/why-is-internet-access-and-wifi-always-so-terrible-at-large-tech-conferences</a> [serverfault.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //serverfault.com/questions/72767/why-is-internet-access-and-wifi-always-so-terrible-at-large-tech-conferences [ serverfault.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://serverfault.com/questions/72767/why-is-internet-access-and-wifi-always-so-terrible-at-large-tech-conferences [serverfault.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357640</id>
	<title>Re:On units and their prefixes</title>
	<author>the\_other\_chewey</author>
	<datestamp>1267716240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Pet peeve of mine. Big one. It's really hard for me to take someone seriously who<br>
writes about millibits while meaning megabits.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Pet peeve of mine .
Big one .
It 's really hard for me to take someone seriously who writes about millibits while meaning megabits .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pet peeve of mine.
Big one.
It's really hard for me to take someone seriously who
writes about millibits while meaning megabits.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357718</id>
	<title>Test, you idiot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267716660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FTFA:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Crimping your own RJ45 should be avoided</p></div><p>Author should have said "testing should NOT be avoided".</p><p>I hate it when people say such things. A cable tester costs $15 and you neglected testing. Don't say "crimping your own RJ45 should be avoided". That's blaming someone else for your idiocy.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>FTFA : Crimping your own RJ45 should be avoidedAuthor should have said " testing should NOT be avoided " .I hate it when people say such things .
A cable tester costs $ 15 and you neglected testing .
Do n't say " crimping your own RJ45 should be avoided " .
That 's blaming someone else for your idiocy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FTFA:Crimping your own RJ45 should be avoidedAuthor should have said "testing should NOT be avoided".I hate it when people say such things.
A cable tester costs $15 and you neglected testing.
Don't say "crimping your own RJ45 should be avoided".
That's blaming someone else for your idiocy.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31361352</id>
	<title>Re:I avoid conference WiFi's...</title>
	<author>cmoss</author>
	<datestamp>1267734240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I start looking here:  http://www.prepaidgsm.net/en/operators.html</p><p>It is a better resource for voice but you can find details on some data prepaid SIMs.</p><p>The last trip I took I was able to get a 3g data only SIM with 1gig data allowance good for a month for ~$20.  This was Austria</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I start looking here : http : //www.prepaidgsm.net/en/operators.htmlIt is a better resource for voice but you can find details on some data prepaid SIMs.The last trip I took I was able to get a 3g data only SIM with 1gig data allowance good for a month for ~ $ 20 .
This was Austria</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I start looking here:  http://www.prepaidgsm.net/en/operators.htmlIt is a better resource for voice but you can find details on some data prepaid SIMs.The last trip I took I was able to get a 3g data only SIM with 1gig data allowance good for a month for ~$20.
This was Austria</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357924</id>
	<title>Re:Test, you idiot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267718100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The other thing I was wondering about is the use of stranded or non stranded cat5, and the associated ends you need to use.  Last major crimping I had to do, I was provided with solid core cat5 and ends for stranded. (with spades in the ends)  You can imagine how that goes, makes for incredibly unreliable crimps trying to use stranded ends on a solid cable. (I don't expect vice-versa to be much better)</p><p>Have they settled on a standard yet?  Solid I hope.  It's been a few yrs for me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The other thing I was wondering about is the use of stranded or non stranded cat5 , and the associated ends you need to use .
Last major crimping I had to do , I was provided with solid core cat5 and ends for stranded .
( with spades in the ends ) You can imagine how that goes , makes for incredibly unreliable crimps trying to use stranded ends on a solid cable .
( I do n't expect vice-versa to be much better ) Have they settled on a standard yet ?
Solid I hope .
It 's been a few yrs for me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The other thing I was wondering about is the use of stranded or non stranded cat5, and the associated ends you need to use.
Last major crimping I had to do, I was provided with solid core cat5 and ends for stranded.
(with spades in the ends)  You can imagine how that goes, makes for incredibly unreliable crimps trying to use stranded ends on a solid cable.
(I don't expect vice-versa to be much better)Have they settled on a standard yet?
Solid I hope.
It's been a few yrs for me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31366430</id>
	<title>Re:Test, you idiot</title>
	<author>jafo</author>
	<datestamp>1267718100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I appreciate the feedback, but, I stand by my original statement.  Crimping RJ45 ends on cable should have been avoided.  We wasted easily a couple of hours of scarce volunteer time on this.  Yes, a $15 tester could have been used, and almost certainly wouldn't have detected either of the primary problems we had with the crimping.<br><br>However, the primary reason to avoid the crimping is not a technical one, it's a management one.  We really didn't have the resources to be spending on the crimping.  We should have been concentrating on things other than crimping RJ45 ends on cables.<br><br>Next year we *WILL* use the Leviton ends to terminate bulk cabling.<br><br>Sean</htmltext>
<tokenext>I appreciate the feedback , but , I stand by my original statement .
Crimping RJ45 ends on cable should have been avoided .
We wasted easily a couple of hours of scarce volunteer time on this .
Yes , a $ 15 tester could have been used , and almost certainly would n't have detected either of the primary problems we had with the crimping.However , the primary reason to avoid the crimping is not a technical one , it 's a management one .
We really did n't have the resources to be spending on the crimping .
We should have been concentrating on things other than crimping RJ45 ends on cables.Next year we * WILL * use the Leviton ends to terminate bulk cabling.Sean</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I appreciate the feedback, but, I stand by my original statement.
Crimping RJ45 ends on cable should have been avoided.
We wasted easily a couple of hours of scarce volunteer time on this.
Yes, a $15 tester could have been used, and almost certainly wouldn't have detected either of the primary problems we had with the crimping.However, the primary reason to avoid the crimping is not a technical one, it's a management one.
We really didn't have the resources to be spending on the crimping.
We should have been concentrating on things other than crimping RJ45 ends on cables.Next year we *WILL* use the Leviton ends to terminate bulk cabling.Sean</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357666</id>
	<title>i feel his pain</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267716360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>[quote]This was caused by us doing our own RJ47 crimping, which I really wanted to avoid.[/quote]</p><p>I really like to avoid doing RJ47 crimping, myself. Results are always totally unexpected.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>[ quote ] This was caused by us doing our own RJ47 crimping , which I really wanted to avoid .
[ /quote ] I really like to avoid doing RJ47 crimping , myself .
Results are always totally unexpected .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[quote]This was caused by us doing our own RJ47 crimping, which I really wanted to avoid.
[/quote]I really like to avoid doing RJ47 crimping, myself.
Results are always totally unexpected.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357938</id>
	<title>Crimping?!  WTF?</title>
	<author>cepler</author>
	<datestamp>1267718160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I lost any possible respect for the poster when I saw this:</p><p>Lessons Learned</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Crimping your own RJ45 should be avoided.</p><p>Any idiot that's been in IT and networking knows you don't crimp your own connectors. You punch down wire to panels, you buy pre-made patch cables.. Often people will purchase the wrong crimp connectors for the cable they are using, or they will use solid wire for patch applications AND use the wrong crimp connectors (solid vs. stranded) and then wonder why things don't hold up... *rolls eyes*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I lost any possible respect for the poster when I saw this : Lessons Learned                 * Crimping your own RJ45 should be avoided.Any idiot that 's been in IT and networking knows you do n't crimp your own connectors .
You punch down wire to panels , you buy pre-made patch cables.. Often people will purchase the wrong crimp connectors for the cable they are using , or they will use solid wire for patch applications AND use the wrong crimp connectors ( solid vs. stranded ) and then wonder why things do n't hold up... * rolls eyes *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I lost any possible respect for the poster when I saw this:Lessons Learned
                * Crimping your own RJ45 should be avoided.Any idiot that's been in IT and networking knows you don't crimp your own connectors.
You punch down wire to panels, you buy pre-made patch cables.. Often people will purchase the wrong crimp connectors for the cable they are using, or they will use solid wire for patch applications AND use the wrong crimp connectors (solid vs. stranded) and then wonder why things don't hold up... *rolls eyes*</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358896</id>
	<title>This is nothing!!!!!</title>
	<author>Shadow\_139</author>
	<datestamp>1267723320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is nothing, have a look at the setup at 26c3 last year....

Full 802.11a/b/g/n, DEC and GSM !!!!!!</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is nothing , have a look at the setup at 26c3 last year... . Full 802.11a/b/g/n , DEC and GSM ! ! ! ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is nothing, have a look at the setup at 26c3 last year....

Full 802.11a/b/g/n, DEC and GSM !!!!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358360</id>
	<title>RTFA, you idiot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267720740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>RTFA.<br>If your read further, he said that the issue wasn't the WIRE connection, it was the little plastic snaps that lock the ends into the jack.</p><p>"the crimp on ends had the tabs in fairly close, so unless you bent them up before plugging them in, they wouldn't click in place."<br>"Because of this, we had several of the Ethernet connections come loose"</p><p>He said he'd avoid it because:<br>1) it's harder to get the good quality control (both physical crimp, individual part quality &amp; total assembly), especially with Volunteers like he had.<br>2) It takes a LOT of time.  He also noted that they didn't have enough crimpers to have multiple people crimping.</p><p>With pre-terminated cables with strain relief, you hopefully avoid both those issues, at the addition of a little cost.<br>I sort of agree with him: preterminated cables would save lots of time, and avoid having to buy multiple crimping tools &amp; a tester to get a minimal speed/quality boost.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>RTFA.If your read further , he said that the issue was n't the WIRE connection , it was the little plastic snaps that lock the ends into the jack .
" the crimp on ends had the tabs in fairly close , so unless you bent them up before plugging them in , they would n't click in place .
" " Because of this , we had several of the Ethernet connections come loose " He said he 'd avoid it because : 1 ) it 's harder to get the good quality control ( both physical crimp , individual part quality &amp; total assembly ) , especially with Volunteers like he had.2 ) It takes a LOT of time .
He also noted that they did n't have enough crimpers to have multiple people crimping.With pre-terminated cables with strain relief , you hopefully avoid both those issues , at the addition of a little cost.I sort of agree with him : preterminated cables would save lots of time , and avoid having to buy multiple crimping tools &amp; a tester to get a minimal speed/quality boost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RTFA.If your read further, he said that the issue wasn't the WIRE connection, it was the little plastic snaps that lock the ends into the jack.
"the crimp on ends had the tabs in fairly close, so unless you bent them up before plugging them in, they wouldn't click in place.
""Because of this, we had several of the Ethernet connections come loose"He said he'd avoid it because:1) it's harder to get the good quality control (both physical crimp, individual part quality &amp; total assembly), especially with Volunteers like he had.2) It takes a LOT of time.
He also noted that they didn't have enough crimpers to have multiple people crimping.With pre-terminated cables with strain relief, you hopefully avoid both those issues, at the addition of a little cost.I sort of agree with him: preterminated cables would save lots of time, and avoid having to buy multiple crimping tools &amp; a tester to get a minimal speed/quality boost.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357674</id>
	<title>IETF meetings solved this 2 years ago</title>
	<author>mbone</author>
	<datestamp>1267716420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IETF meetings are larger (1200+ typically), and basically everyone has an uses a laptop / pda, so they make for a <a href="http://iaoc.ietf.org/network\_requirements.html" title="ietf.org">demanding wireless environment</a> [ietf.org]. After some really bad experiences, resources were put into this, and the last few years, things have really improved.</p><p>What we have found is that</p><p>- it is necessary to have good gear (not all access points are created equal)<br>- To serve a lot of people, lower the power per access point, and put in a lot of them. Raising the power because of poor reception is a mistake.<br>- having both 2 GHz and 5 GHz networks <b>really</b> helps.<br>- telling attendees how to turn off "ad hoc" mode on their computers really helps.<br>- tracking down ill-configured boxes doing bad things on the network really helps.</p><p>Having said that, most recent IETF meeting sponsors have chosen to pay for professional wireless network providers. This is not trivial, and there is no better way to cause a flame war than to have the WLAN melt down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IETF meetings are larger ( 1200 + typically ) , and basically everyone has an uses a laptop / pda , so they make for a demanding wireless environment [ ietf.org ] .
After some really bad experiences , resources were put into this , and the last few years , things have really improved.What we have found is that- it is necessary to have good gear ( not all access points are created equal ) - To serve a lot of people , lower the power per access point , and put in a lot of them .
Raising the power because of poor reception is a mistake.- having both 2 GHz and 5 GHz networks really helps.- telling attendees how to turn off " ad hoc " mode on their computers really helps.- tracking down ill-configured boxes doing bad things on the network really helps.Having said that , most recent IETF meeting sponsors have chosen to pay for professional wireless network providers .
This is not trivial , and there is no better way to cause a flame war than to have the WLAN melt down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IETF meetings are larger (1200+ typically), and basically everyone has an uses a laptop / pda, so they make for a demanding wireless environment [ietf.org].
After some really bad experiences, resources were put into this, and the last few years, things have really improved.What we have found is that- it is necessary to have good gear (not all access points are created equal)- To serve a lot of people, lower the power per access point, and put in a lot of them.
Raising the power because of poor reception is a mistake.- having both 2 GHz and 5 GHz networks really helps.- telling attendees how to turn off "ad hoc" mode on their computers really helps.- tracking down ill-configured boxes doing bad things on the network really helps.Having said that, most recent IETF meeting sponsors have chosen to pay for professional wireless network providers.
This is not trivial, and there is no better way to cause a flame war than to have the WLAN melt down.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31362678</id>
	<title>Re:two questions</title>
	<author>mbone</author>
	<datestamp>1267697700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I believe that every Mac laptop <a href="http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/06/01/13/intel\_macs\_add\_support\_for\_80211a\_wifi\_standard.html" title="appleinsider.com">since 2006</a> [appleinsider.com] has supported 802.11a. Joining an "a" network is seamless, and much of the time you won't even notice it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe that every Mac laptop since 2006 [ appleinsider.com ] has supported 802.11a .
Joining an " a " network is seamless , and much of the time you wo n't even notice it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe that every Mac laptop since 2006 [appleinsider.com] has supported 802.11a.
Joining an "a" network is seamless, and much of the time you won't even notice it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31359204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357350</id>
	<title>On units and their prefixes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267714320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Editors, please do your job before you accept a story - that's an easy way to make Slashdot much better. In this particular story, it would have been easy - no research required. As I'm sure almost everyone here knows, m != M. Also, what is wrong with "b/s" instead of "bps"? (Also, how do I write non-ASCII characters here?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Editors , please do your job before you accept a story - that 's an easy way to make Slashdot much better .
In this particular story , it would have been easy - no research required .
As I 'm sure almost everyone here knows , m ! = M. Also , what is wrong with " b/s " instead of " bps " ?
( Also , how do I write non-ASCII characters here ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Editors, please do your job before you accept a story - that's an easy way to make Slashdot much better.
In this particular story, it would have been easy - no research required.
As I'm sure almost everyone here knows, m != M. Also, what is wrong with "b/s" instead of "bps"?
(Also, how do I write non-ASCII characters here?
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31366534</id>
	<title>Re:two questions</title>
	<author>jafo</author>
	<datestamp>1267718880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>See the graphs in the article, but the majority of users were indeed running 5.2GHz and 802.11n.<br><br>I tell by getting candidate APs and testing them.  The Netgear I used had issues when running WPA, but as the event was running wide open, and my testing had no issues, I was happy.<br><br>The gear I really wanted was 3Com's equivalent, for 33\% more, but my vendor said they didn't expect to get the first shipment until the week before the conference.  Not enough time to test.  And I'm glad I didn't even think about it -- at the event I checked my vendor and they still didn't have them in.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)<br><br>Sean</htmltext>
<tokenext>See the graphs in the article , but the majority of users were indeed running 5.2GHz and 802.11n.I tell by getting candidate APs and testing them .
The Netgear I used had issues when running WPA , but as the event was running wide open , and my testing had no issues , I was happy.The gear I really wanted was 3Com 's equivalent , for 33 \ % more , but my vendor said they did n't expect to get the first shipment until the week before the conference .
Not enough time to test .
And I 'm glad I did n't even think about it -- at the event I checked my vendor and they still did n't have them in .
: - ) Sean</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See the graphs in the article, but the majority of users were indeed running 5.2GHz and 802.11n.I tell by getting candidate APs and testing them.
The Netgear I used had issues when running WPA, but as the event was running wide open, and my testing had no issues, I was happy.The gear I really wanted was 3Com's equivalent, for 33\% more, but my vendor said they didn't expect to get the first shipment until the week before the conference.
Not enough time to test.
And I'm glad I didn't even think about it -- at the event I checked my vendor and they still didn't have them in.
:-)Sean</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31359204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31362770</id>
	<title>Re:IETF meetings solved this 2 years ago</title>
	<author>mbone</author>
	<datestamp>1267697940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you are only meeting once in a given location, get access to the venue a few days in advance, and also don't have the ability to rewire things, putting in jacks and wiring for 1000+ people is not competitive. It's hard enough just giving them a power jack (an IETF requirement).</p><p>Plus, people much prefer the wireless. Even in areas where wireline Ethernet is available, most people use the wireless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you are only meeting once in a given location , get access to the venue a few days in advance , and also do n't have the ability to rewire things , putting in jacks and wiring for 1000 + people is not competitive .
It 's hard enough just giving them a power jack ( an IETF requirement ) .Plus , people much prefer the wireless .
Even in areas where wireline Ethernet is available , most people use the wireless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you are only meeting once in a given location, get access to the venue a few days in advance, and also don't have the ability to rewire things, putting in jacks and wiring for 1000+ people is not competitive.
It's hard enough just giving them a power jack (an IETF requirement).Plus, people much prefer the wireless.
Even in areas where wireline Ethernet is available, most people use the wireless.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357446</id>
	<title>Re:On units and their prefixes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267714800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Editors, please do your job before you accept a story - that's an easy way to make Slashdot much better. In this particular story, it would have been easy - no research required. As I'm sure almost everyone here knows, m != M. Also, what is wrong with "b/s" instead of "bps"? (Also, how do I write non-ASCII characters here?)</p></div><p>I thought 130 millibits per second sounded kind of slow.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Editors , please do your job before you accept a story - that 's an easy way to make Slashdot much better .
In this particular story , it would have been easy - no research required .
As I 'm sure almost everyone here knows , m ! = M. Also , what is wrong with " b/s " instead of " bps " ?
( Also , how do I write non-ASCII characters here ?
) I thought 130 millibits per second sounded kind of slow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Editors, please do your job before you accept a story - that's an easy way to make Slashdot much better.
In this particular story, it would have been easy - no research required.
As I'm sure almost everyone here knows, m != M. Also, what is wrong with "b/s" instead of "bps"?
(Also, how do I write non-ASCII characters here?
)I thought 130 millibits per second sounded kind of slow.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358010</id>
	<title>Typo in the Summary</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267718700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"but most users were on 5.2GHz (using 802.11n) and associating at 130mbps". It should say 802.11a, not 802.11n.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" but most users were on 5.2GHz ( using 802.11n ) and associating at 130mbps " .
It should say 802.11a , not 802.11n .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"but most users were on 5.2GHz (using 802.11n) and associating at 130mbps".
It should say 802.11a, not 802.11n.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31362514</id>
	<title>Re:IETF meetings solved this 2 years ago</title>
	<author>asdfghjklqwertyuiop</author>
	<datestamp>1267697040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>- To serve a lot of people, lower the power per access point, and put in a lot of them. Raising the power because of poor reception is a mistake.</p></div></blockquote><p>What about directional antennas to have any given AP hear fewer clients?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>- To serve a lot of people , lower the power per access point , and put in a lot of them .
Raising the power because of poor reception is a mistake.What about directional antennas to have any given AP hear fewer clients ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>- To serve a lot of people, lower the power per access point, and put in a lot of them.
Raising the power because of poor reception is a mistake.What about directional antennas to have any given AP hear fewer clients?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31359768</id>
	<title>Re:I avoid conference WiFi's...</title>
	<author>obarthelemy</author>
	<datestamp>1267726680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For France, here's what a quick search came up with:<br>- day pass @ 2 euros up to 10 megs, 8 euros then, for PC, need 3G dongle<br>- day pass @ 9 euros for mobile phone<br>- 15h pass @ 40 euros for mobile phone<br>from<br><a href="http://www.sfr.fr/internet-mobile/offres-internet-mobile-cle-internet-3g/les-offres-internet-3g-?vue=00235e&amp;addFilter=&amp;usage=occasionnel&amp;sfrintid=hbolmid\_off\_pass\_bolmid" title="www.sfr.fr">http://www.sfr.fr/internet-mobile/offres-internet-mobile-cle-internet-3g/les-offres-internet-3g-?vue=00235e&amp;addFilter=&amp;usage=occasionnel&amp;sfrintid=hbolmid\_off\_pass\_bolmid</a> [www.sfr.fr]<br><a href="http://www.laboutique.bouyguestelecom.fr/forfaits-mobiles-offres-internet/forfaits-internet-mobile-3g-147\_g.html#nogo" title="bouyguestelecom.fr">http://www.laboutique.bouyguestelecom.fr/forfaits-mobiles-offres-internet/forfaits-internet-mobile-3g-147\_g.html#nogo</a> [bouyguestelecom.fr]</p><p>I think the general idea is to plan ahead: find out what the big mobile phone operators are, go to their web sites, hope for an english version<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-p Then once you get there, go to one of their shops, there's usually one at airports.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For France , here 's what a quick search came up with : - day pass @ 2 euros up to 10 megs , 8 euros then , for PC , need 3G dongle- day pass @ 9 euros for mobile phone- 15h pass @ 40 euros for mobile phonefromhttp : //www.sfr.fr/internet-mobile/offres-internet-mobile-cle-internet-3g/les-offres-internet-3g- ? vue = 00235e&amp;addFilter = &amp;usage = occasionnel&amp;sfrintid = hbolmid \ _off \ _pass \ _bolmid [ www.sfr.fr ] http : //www.laboutique.bouyguestelecom.fr/forfaits-mobiles-offres-internet/forfaits-internet-mobile-3g-147 \ _g.html # nogo [ bouyguestelecom.fr ] I think the general idea is to plan ahead : find out what the big mobile phone operators are , go to their web sites , hope for an english version : -p Then once you get there , go to one of their shops , there 's usually one at airports .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For France, here's what a quick search came up with:- day pass @ 2 euros up to 10 megs, 8 euros then, for PC, need 3G dongle- day pass @ 9 euros for mobile phone- 15h pass @ 40 euros for mobile phonefromhttp://www.sfr.fr/internet-mobile/offres-internet-mobile-cle-internet-3g/les-offres-internet-3g-?vue=00235e&amp;addFilter=&amp;usage=occasionnel&amp;sfrintid=hbolmid\_off\_pass\_bolmid [www.sfr.fr]http://www.laboutique.bouyguestelecom.fr/forfaits-mobiles-offres-internet/forfaits-internet-mobile-3g-147\_g.html#nogo [bouyguestelecom.fr]I think the general idea is to plan ahead: find out what the big mobile phone operators are, go to their web sites, hope for an english version :-p Then once you get there, go to one of their shops, there's usually one at airports.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31360418</id>
	<title>"/." meetings solved this 2 years ago</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267729800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A good choice for AP is <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002Z2W9N2/ref=cm\_cd\_asin\_lnk" title="amazon.com" rel="nofollow">this</a> [amazon.com] </p><p><div class="quote"><p>The real trick was getting APs that would do 802.11n on both radios at the same time. Most APs are not able to do N on both radios. So we ended up using the Netgear DWNAP-350, a $300 AP but it does support lots of features including gigabit Ethernet, N on both frequencies at the same time, PoE...</p></div><p>The Netgear WNDR3700 can't?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A good choice for AP is this [ amazon.com ] The real trick was getting APs that would do 802.11n on both radios at the same time .
Most APs are not able to do N on both radios .
So we ended up using the Netgear DWNAP-350 , a $ 300 AP but it does support lots of features including gigabit Ethernet , N on both frequencies at the same time , PoE...The Netgear WNDR3700 ca n't ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A good choice for AP is this [amazon.com] The real trick was getting APs that would do 802.11n on both radios at the same time.
Most APs are not able to do N on both radios.
So we ended up using the Netgear DWNAP-350, a $300 AP but it does support lots of features including gigabit Ethernet, N on both frequencies at the same time, PoE...The Netgear WNDR3700 can't?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31360834</id>
	<title>Re:On units and their prefixes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267731840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>And isn't it supposed to be Mib/s now?  Or does data transfer do the base ten thing?

The whole thing is horribly confusing to me.  (And certainly proves to me why we need to follow standards.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>And is n't it supposed to be Mib/s now ?
Or does data transfer do the base ten thing ?
The whole thing is horribly confusing to me .
( And certainly proves to me why we need to follow standards .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And isn't it supposed to be Mib/s now?
Or does data transfer do the base ten thing?
The whole thing is horribly confusing to me.
(And certainly proves to me why we need to follow standards.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31380128</id>
	<title>Re:On units and their prefixes</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1267883820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are some HTML entities that work. &amp;mdash; = [&mdash;], &amp;rdquo; = [&rdquo;], &amp;ldquo; = [&ldquo;], &amp;lsquo; = [&lsquo;], &amp;rsquo; = [&rsquo;], and so on. But I don&rsquo;t know which ones are allowed, and which ones not. &amp;hellip; for example, is not allowed: []. Even hexadecimal ones only work when allowed as normal entities.<br>I haven&rsquo;t found much use for others here. Although I wish, mathematical symbols would work. As I have a ton of them on <a href="http://www.neo-layout.org/" title="neo-layout.org">my keyboard layout</a> [neo-layout.org].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are some HTML entities that work .
   = [    ] ,    = [    ] ,    = [    ] ,    = [    ] ,    = [    ] , and so on .
But I don    t know which ones are allowed , and which ones not .
   for example , is not allowed : [ ] .
Even hexadecimal ones only work when allowed as normal entities.I haven    t found much use for others here .
Although I wish , mathematical symbols would work .
As I have a ton of them on my keyboard layout [ neo-layout.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are some HTML entities that work.
— = [—], ” = [”], “ = [“], ‘ = [‘], ’ = [’], and so on.
But I don’t know which ones are allowed, and which ones not.
… for example, is not allowed: [].
Even hexadecimal ones only work when allowed as normal entities.I haven’t found much use for others here.
Although I wish, mathematical symbols would work.
As I have a ton of them on my keyboard layout [neo-layout.org].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31360810</id>
	<title>A few other things...</title>
	<author>Andy Dodd</author>
	<datestamp>1267731720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GAH.  Somehow I typed this all up but forgot to hit submit...</p><p>My experience is that in addition to few routers/APs doing simultaneous dual-band, many don't allow you to do different modes on the two bands.<br>802.11n degrades severely in the presence of legacy devices, and it's a spectrum hog.  So N in the 2.4 GHz band is a bad idea - my experience is that every 2.4 GHz N solution I've worked with has performed worse than a good 802.11g router with an external antenna.<br>802.11n works pretty well in the 5 GHz band - very few legacy devices and plenty of spectrum.</p><p>Nearly all dual-band routers/APs also now use internal antennas.  Routers/APs with internal antennas suck.  Period.  It is far easier to find singleband routers that support external antennas (and singleband antennas) than dualband routers that support external antennas.</p><p>My own apartment setup is:<br>802.11g router with sector antenna running DD-WRT<br>802.11n router configured as an AP in the 5 GHz band, running "n-only" mode<br>Each network has a slightly different SSID so I can explicitly choose which network to use.</p><p>I would reccommend something like:<br>1)  A 2.4 GHz network of G-only units with external antennas like the Ubiqiti Bullet2 or Bullet2-HP<br>2)  A 5 GHz network of N-only units with external antennas</p><p>Very few people have equipment capable of 802.11a but not 5 GHz N, and forcing N-only on the 5 GHz network will improve performance.  If you really want support for "legacy A" users, install a third network on a different set of channels.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GAH .
Somehow I typed this all up but forgot to hit submit...My experience is that in addition to few routers/APs doing simultaneous dual-band , many do n't allow you to do different modes on the two bands.802.11n degrades severely in the presence of legacy devices , and it 's a spectrum hog .
So N in the 2.4 GHz band is a bad idea - my experience is that every 2.4 GHz N solution I 've worked with has performed worse than a good 802.11g router with an external antenna.802.11n works pretty well in the 5 GHz band - very few legacy devices and plenty of spectrum.Nearly all dual-band routers/APs also now use internal antennas .
Routers/APs with internal antennas suck .
Period. It is far easier to find singleband routers that support external antennas ( and singleband antennas ) than dualband routers that support external antennas.My own apartment setup is : 802.11g router with sector antenna running DD-WRT802.11n router configured as an AP in the 5 GHz band , running " n-only " modeEach network has a slightly different SSID so I can explicitly choose which network to use.I would reccommend something like : 1 ) A 2.4 GHz network of G-only units with external antennas like the Ubiqiti Bullet2 or Bullet2-HP2 ) A 5 GHz network of N-only units with external antennasVery few people have equipment capable of 802.11a but not 5 GHz N , and forcing N-only on the 5 GHz network will improve performance .
If you really want support for " legacy A " users , install a third network on a different set of channels .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GAH.
Somehow I typed this all up but forgot to hit submit...My experience is that in addition to few routers/APs doing simultaneous dual-band, many don't allow you to do different modes on the two bands.802.11n degrades severely in the presence of legacy devices, and it's a spectrum hog.
So N in the 2.4 GHz band is a bad idea - my experience is that every 2.4 GHz N solution I've worked with has performed worse than a good 802.11g router with an external antenna.802.11n works pretty well in the 5 GHz band - very few legacy devices and plenty of spectrum.Nearly all dual-band routers/APs also now use internal antennas.
Routers/APs with internal antennas suck.
Period.  It is far easier to find singleband routers that support external antennas (and singleband antennas) than dualband routers that support external antennas.My own apartment setup is:802.11g router with sector antenna running DD-WRT802.11n router configured as an AP in the 5 GHz band, running "n-only" modeEach network has a slightly different SSID so I can explicitly choose which network to use.I would reccommend something like:1)  A 2.4 GHz network of G-only units with external antennas like the Ubiqiti Bullet2 or Bullet2-HP2)  A 5 GHz network of N-only units with external antennasVery few people have equipment capable of 802.11a but not 5 GHz N, and forcing N-only on the 5 GHz network will improve performance.
If you really want support for "legacy A" users, install a third network on a different set of channels.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357698</id>
	<title>Re:On units and their prefixes</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1267716540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just FYI, the "job" of a Slashdot "editor" involves scoring Rob Malda some weed when you were at community college together, writing a very small shell script to post every 25th story submission, then scarfing beer and cheetos while playing in the Furry zone of Second Life for the rest of your "career".

</p><p>Mod hints: -1 Troll, +1 Informative, +1 Insightful</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just FYI , the " job " of a Slashdot " editor " involves scoring Rob Malda some weed when you were at community college together , writing a very small shell script to post every 25th story submission , then scarfing beer and cheetos while playing in the Furry zone of Second Life for the rest of your " career " .
Mod hints : -1 Troll , + 1 Informative , + 1 Insightful</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just FYI, the "job" of a Slashdot "editor" involves scoring Rob Malda some weed when you were at community college together, writing a very small shell script to post every 25th story submission, then scarfing beer and cheetos while playing in the Furry zone of Second Life for the rest of your "career".
Mod hints: -1 Troll, +1 Informative, +1 Insightful</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31365026</id>
	<title>Re:I avoid conference WiFi's...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267707660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It varies from country to country. In some you can just waltz into a phone shop and buy a card on the spot, no questions asked. However, in many European countries you have to register your name, date of birth and local address to be allowed to buy a SIM card. Standard procedure in Germany is that the customer shows an ID card from which the relevant information is copied to an application form. Some providers' prepaid cards, particularly those which are sold by discount stores (Aldi, etc.) use online registration, where you can basically make up all the information. If they find out, they'll cancel the card, but it's usually not a problem. Yes, the whole registration requirement is retarded, but we must think of the children and fear the terrorists.</p><p>Good offers in Germany:</p><p>
&nbsp; Aldi-Talk: Choice of volume pricing or two "flatrates", 0.24EUR per MB, 24 hours for 2 Euros or 30 days for 15 Euros, throttled to GPRS speeds after 1GB and 5GB respectively. Uses the E-Plus network, which is the slowest of the four German networks. Aldi supermarkets are everywhere.</p><p>
&nbsp; Penny-Mobil: Volume pricing or daypass, 2.50 EUR for 24 hours, throttling after 500MB. Uses T-Mobile network, which is the fastest network with the best coverage. SIM cards not sold in all Penny discount stores, actually quite hard to find one which does sell them.</p><p>
&nbsp; Fonic: SIM cards sold at Lidl discount supermarkets. 2.50 EUR for 24 hours, uses O2 network, which is mostly fast but has spotty coverage outside urban areas.</p><p>
&nbsp; Congstar is also widely available and uses the fast T-Mobile network, but does not offer a data flat rate model, only (expensive) volume-pricing.</p><p>Voice roaming prices are regulated and relatively affordable EU-wide, but data roaming is not. In almost all cases, data usage outside of the SIM's origin country is prohibitively expensive. Do not even think about it. Beginning this month, network service providers must offer to limit monthly data roaming charges to 50 EUR excl. taxes, after which no further traffic will be handled without the customer's explicit consent. This is not much of an issue with prepaid cards, but if you're considering a post-paid contract, don't forget to instruct the provider to set that limit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It varies from country to country .
In some you can just waltz into a phone shop and buy a card on the spot , no questions asked .
However , in many European countries you have to register your name , date of birth and local address to be allowed to buy a SIM card .
Standard procedure in Germany is that the customer shows an ID card from which the relevant information is copied to an application form .
Some providers ' prepaid cards , particularly those which are sold by discount stores ( Aldi , etc .
) use online registration , where you can basically make up all the information .
If they find out , they 'll cancel the card , but it 's usually not a problem .
Yes , the whole registration requirement is retarded , but we must think of the children and fear the terrorists.Good offers in Germany :   Aldi-Talk : Choice of volume pricing or two " flatrates " , 0.24EUR per MB , 24 hours for 2 Euros or 30 days for 15 Euros , throttled to GPRS speeds after 1GB and 5GB respectively .
Uses the E-Plus network , which is the slowest of the four German networks .
Aldi supermarkets are everywhere .
  Penny-Mobil : Volume pricing or daypass , 2.50 EUR for 24 hours , throttling after 500MB .
Uses T-Mobile network , which is the fastest network with the best coverage .
SIM cards not sold in all Penny discount stores , actually quite hard to find one which does sell them .
  Fonic : SIM cards sold at Lidl discount supermarkets .
2.50 EUR for 24 hours , uses O2 network , which is mostly fast but has spotty coverage outside urban areas .
  Congstar is also widely available and uses the fast T-Mobile network , but does not offer a data flat rate model , only ( expensive ) volume-pricing.Voice roaming prices are regulated and relatively affordable EU-wide , but data roaming is not .
In almost all cases , data usage outside of the SIM 's origin country is prohibitively expensive .
Do not even think about it .
Beginning this month , network service providers must offer to limit monthly data roaming charges to 50 EUR excl .
taxes , after which no further traffic will be handled without the customer 's explicit consent .
This is not much of an issue with prepaid cards , but if you 're considering a post-paid contract , do n't forget to instruct the provider to set that limit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It varies from country to country.
In some you can just waltz into a phone shop and buy a card on the spot, no questions asked.
However, in many European countries you have to register your name, date of birth and local address to be allowed to buy a SIM card.
Standard procedure in Germany is that the customer shows an ID card from which the relevant information is copied to an application form.
Some providers' prepaid cards, particularly those which are sold by discount stores (Aldi, etc.
) use online registration, where you can basically make up all the information.
If they find out, they'll cancel the card, but it's usually not a problem.
Yes, the whole registration requirement is retarded, but we must think of the children and fear the terrorists.Good offers in Germany:
  Aldi-Talk: Choice of volume pricing or two "flatrates", 0.24EUR per MB, 24 hours for 2 Euros or 30 days for 15 Euros, throttled to GPRS speeds after 1GB and 5GB respectively.
Uses the E-Plus network, which is the slowest of the four German networks.
Aldi supermarkets are everywhere.
  Penny-Mobil: Volume pricing or daypass, 2.50 EUR for 24 hours, throttling after 500MB.
Uses T-Mobile network, which is the fastest network with the best coverage.
SIM cards not sold in all Penny discount stores, actually quite hard to find one which does sell them.
  Fonic: SIM cards sold at Lidl discount supermarkets.
2.50 EUR for 24 hours, uses O2 network, which is mostly fast but has spotty coverage outside urban areas.
  Congstar is also widely available and uses the fast T-Mobile network, but does not offer a data flat rate model, only (expensive) volume-pricing.Voice roaming prices are regulated and relatively affordable EU-wide, but data roaming is not.
In almost all cases, data usage outside of the SIM's origin country is prohibitively expensive.
Do not even think about it.
Beginning this month, network service providers must offer to limit monthly data roaming charges to 50 EUR excl.
taxes, after which no further traffic will be handled without the customer's explicit consent.
This is not much of an issue with prepaid cards, but if you're considering a post-paid contract, don't forget to instruct the provider to set that limit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31359204</id>
	<title>two questions</title>
	<author>eison</author>
	<datestamp>1267724460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>* My laptop only does 2.4ghz n, and I thought that was par for the course?  Are laptops with 5ghz N really that common?<br>* There is clearly a quality difference among access points, but how do you tell in advance which equipment will work and which won't?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>* My laptop only does 2.4ghz n , and I thought that was par for the course ?
Are laptops with 5ghz N really that common ?
* There is clearly a quality difference among access points , but how do you tell in advance which equipment will work and which wo n't ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>* My laptop only does 2.4ghz n, and I thought that was par for the course?
Are laptops with 5ghz N really that common?
* There is clearly a quality difference among access points, but how do you tell in advance which equipment will work and which won't?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358178</id>
	<title>PPTP? Seriously?</title>
	<author>QuoteMstr</author>
	<datestamp>1267719720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>one of the guys couldn't establish a PPTP connection</p></div></blockquote><p>PPTP? People should know better. PPTP is <a href="http://www.schneier.com/paper-pptpv2.html" title="schneier.com">very</a> [schneier.com] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-Point\_Tunneling\_Protocol#Security\_of\_the\_PPTP\_protocol" title="wikipedia.org">weak</a> [wikipedia.org]. OpenVPN and IPSec are much better all around.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>one of the guys could n't establish a PPTP connectionPPTP ?
People should know better .
PPTP is very [ schneier.com ] weak [ wikipedia.org ] .
OpenVPN and IPSec are much better all around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>one of the guys couldn't establish a PPTP connectionPPTP?
People should know better.
PPTP is very [schneier.com] weak [wikipedia.org].
OpenVPN and IPSec are much better all around.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31360804</id>
	<title>Not melting is such a relative term</title>
	<author>Ranger</author>
	<datestamp>1267731660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wouldn't exactly call PyCon's Wi-Fi a success, but it was better than in years past. The venue changes every two years, so all the bugs have to get worked out in each new location then it's better the second year. I mostly used my iPhone on 3G and stayed off of Wi-Fi. The Hyatt must have had a micro-cell in the bldg because I had a strong signal 2 floors below street level.
<br> <br>
If you tried to use wi-fi during the keynote session in the morning, it was slow as molasses. During the regular conference sessions it was more reasonable.
<br> <br>
During Guido's opening talk he took questions via the twitter feed. That could have been painfully slow but it wasn't. It's not that twitter takes up much bandwidth, but the website serving up the feed and everyone hitting it could have been.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't exactly call PyCon 's Wi-Fi a success , but it was better than in years past .
The venue changes every two years , so all the bugs have to get worked out in each new location then it 's better the second year .
I mostly used my iPhone on 3G and stayed off of Wi-Fi .
The Hyatt must have had a micro-cell in the bldg because I had a strong signal 2 floors below street level .
If you tried to use wi-fi during the keynote session in the morning , it was slow as molasses .
During the regular conference sessions it was more reasonable .
During Guido 's opening talk he took questions via the twitter feed .
That could have been painfully slow but it was n't .
It 's not that twitter takes up much bandwidth , but the website serving up the feed and everyone hitting it could have been .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't exactly call PyCon's Wi-Fi a success, but it was better than in years past.
The venue changes every two years, so all the bugs have to get worked out in each new location then it's better the second year.
I mostly used my iPhone on 3G and stayed off of Wi-Fi.
The Hyatt must have had a micro-cell in the bldg because I had a strong signal 2 floors below street level.
If you tried to use wi-fi during the keynote session in the morning, it was slow as molasses.
During the regular conference sessions it was more reasonable.
During Guido's opening talk he took questions via the twitter feed.
That could have been painfully slow but it wasn't.
It's not that twitter takes up much bandwidth, but the website serving up the feed and everyone hitting it could have been.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357660</id>
	<title>Re:I avoid conference WiFi's...</title>
	<author>Andy Dodd</author>
	<datestamp>1267716360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Elaborating on the previous user's question:</p><p>If you are using a different SIM for the "other country" provider, where do you typically start looking to shop?</p><p>If you are using your own SIM, if you were in a position like myself (US resident considering travel/vacation in Europe) - How would you go about getting a short-term SIM/finding one in your given country?</p><p>Every time I've looked into SIMs in other countries, the solutions I've found have been extremely expensive and despite Europe not doing the contract thing like we do, clearly not oriented towards the "used for 1-4 weeks" situation.  Most of the short-term SIMs seem to be voice only too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Elaborating on the previous user 's question : If you are using a different SIM for the " other country " provider , where do you typically start looking to shop ? If you are using your own SIM , if you were in a position like myself ( US resident considering travel/vacation in Europe ) - How would you go about getting a short-term SIM/finding one in your given country ? Every time I 've looked into SIMs in other countries , the solutions I 've found have been extremely expensive and despite Europe not doing the contract thing like we do , clearly not oriented towards the " used for 1-4 weeks " situation .
Most of the short-term SIMs seem to be voice only too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Elaborating on the previous user's question:If you are using a different SIM for the "other country" provider, where do you typically start looking to shop?If you are using your own SIM, if you were in a position like myself (US resident considering travel/vacation in Europe) - How would you go about getting a short-term SIM/finding one in your given country?Every time I've looked into SIMs in other countries, the solutions I've found have been extremely expensive and despite Europe not doing the contract thing like we do, clearly not oriented towards the "used for 1-4 weeks" situation.
Most of the short-term SIMs seem to be voice only too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31363272</id>
	<title>Re:IETF meetings solved this 2 years ago</title>
	<author>jafo</author>
	<datestamp>1267699560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is all sound advice that agrees with my experience.  However, this year we really had much less of a problem with Ad-Hoc networks, this was a bigger issue in the past.  Possibly some of this is the tools, one of the vendor wireless configurators I saw was basically impossible to tell that it was setting up an Ad-Hoc network, everything I saw in it indicated it was connecting to an existing network not setting up it's own, until I drilled down into the bowels of that software.<br><br>One thing I didn't really mention is that I think part of the problems we had with 2.4GHz was the interference of the conference center's wireless gear, they had the 2.4GHz spectrum blanketed.<br><br>All gear is definitely not the same.<br><br>Sean</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is all sound advice that agrees with my experience .
However , this year we really had much less of a problem with Ad-Hoc networks , this was a bigger issue in the past .
Possibly some of this is the tools , one of the vendor wireless configurators I saw was basically impossible to tell that it was setting up an Ad-Hoc network , everything I saw in it indicated it was connecting to an existing network not setting up it 's own , until I drilled down into the bowels of that software.One thing I did n't really mention is that I think part of the problems we had with 2.4GHz was the interference of the conference center 's wireless gear , they had the 2.4GHz spectrum blanketed.All gear is definitely not the same.Sean</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is all sound advice that agrees with my experience.
However, this year we really had much less of a problem with Ad-Hoc networks, this was a bigger issue in the past.
Possibly some of this is the tools, one of the vendor wireless configurators I saw was basically impossible to tell that it was setting up an Ad-Hoc network, everything I saw in it indicated it was connecting to an existing network not setting up it's own, until I drilled down into the bowels of that software.One thing I didn't really mention is that I think part of the problems we had with 2.4GHz was the interference of the conference center's wireless gear, they had the 2.4GHz spectrum blanketed.All gear is definitely not the same.Sean</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358120</id>
	<title>Damn toasters....</title>
	<author>fractalboy</author>
	<datestamp>1267719360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hmmm.... that's odd.... the Cylons must have managed to just miss all of Picon's wireless access points with their barrage of nukes.  Or maybe it was just part of their "plan" all along?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmmm.... that 's odd.... the Cylons must have managed to just miss all of Picon 's wireless access points with their barrage of nukes .
Or maybe it was just part of their " plan " all along ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmmm.... that's odd.... the Cylons must have managed to just miss all of Picon's wireless access points with their barrage of nukes.
Or maybe it was just part of their "plan" all along?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31361966</id>
	<title>Re:IETF meetings solved this 2 years ago</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267693920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you ever actually been to a conference?  There are rows upon rows upon rows of chairs in large, or sometimes VERY large rooms.  WTF are you talking about, run a CAT6 to every seat?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you ever actually been to a conference ?
There are rows upon rows upon rows of chairs in large , or sometimes VERY large rooms .
WTF are you talking about , run a CAT6 to every seat ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you ever actually been to a conference?
There are rows upon rows upon rows of chairs in large, or sometimes VERY large rooms.
WTF are you talking about, run a CAT6 to every seat?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31360274</id>
	<title>Re:On units and their prefixes</title>
	<author>FatdogHaiku</author>
	<datestamp>1267728960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> (Also, how do I write non-ASCII characters here?)</p></div><p>Only the printable ascii table and extended ascii table seem to be supported.  If the HTML ascii code
(e.g. &#233;=&amp;#233;) is greater than 255 (a.k.a. &#255;), then you can't get there from here. This fact has been pointed out by many users... no unicode, no change.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>( Also , how do I write non-ASCII characters here ?
) Only the printable ascii table and extended ascii table seem to be supported .
If the HTML ascii code ( e.g .
  =   ) is greater than 255 ( a.k.a .
  ) , then you ca n't get there from here .
This fact has been pointed out by many users... no unicode , no change .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> (Also, how do I write non-ASCII characters here?
)Only the printable ascii table and extended ascii table seem to be supported.
If the HTML ascii code
(e.g.
é=é) is greater than 255 (a.k.a.
ÿ), then you can't get there from here.
This fact has been pointed out by many users... no unicode, no change.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357488</id>
	<title>I avoid conference WiFi's...</title>
	<author>SerpentMage</author>
	<datestamp>1267715220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because of the notorious slow conference WiFi's I have learned a new trick...</p><p>I use 3G networks. Since I live in Europe it would be expensive except I get pay-per-day for the country and that averages around 4 to 5 USD per day. That is great considering I can get 3G within restaurants, in my hotel room, and where ever else...  Beats having to figure things out with the Wifi...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because of the notorious slow conference WiFi 's I have learned a new trick...I use 3G networks .
Since I live in Europe it would be expensive except I get pay-per-day for the country and that averages around 4 to 5 USD per day .
That is great considering I can get 3G within restaurants , in my hotel room , and where ever else... Beats having to figure things out with the Wifi.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because of the notorious slow conference WiFi's I have learned a new trick...I use 3G networks.
Since I live in Europe it would be expensive except I get pay-per-day for the country and that averages around 4 to 5 USD per day.
That is great considering I can get 3G within restaurants, in my hotel room, and where ever else...  Beats having to figure things out with the Wifi...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358840</id>
	<title>Re:Test, you idiot</title>
	<author>TheLink</author>
	<datestamp>1267723200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In most cases it's better to buy pre-crimped certified cables and test them, than to crimp them and test them.<br><br>How much money are you going to save? If you're charging $$$ for the project, crimping your own cables is a waste of time and resources. Unless of course your job is making cables<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:).</htmltext>
<tokenext>In most cases it 's better to buy pre-crimped certified cables and test them , than to crimp them and test them.How much money are you going to save ?
If you 're charging $ $ $ for the project , crimping your own cables is a waste of time and resources .
Unless of course your job is making cables : ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In most cases it's better to buy pre-crimped certified cables and test them, than to crimp them and test them.How much money are you going to save?
If you're charging $$$ for the project, crimping your own cables is a waste of time and resources.
Unless of course your job is making cables :).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357496</id>
	<title>More such reports, please!</title>
	<author>Enleth</author>
	<datestamp>1267715280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even though it's just a short report, it's going to be very valuable for anyone doing similar work, be it for a conference or for a more permanent setup. No textbook is going to protect against those "oh crap, why didn't I think of it before?" moments like some actual experience would, and this posting is the next best thing after actually having someone with experience on site. And this works for any field of applied technology, not just wireless networking.</p><p>So, thanks and be back with some more soon!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even though it 's just a short report , it 's going to be very valuable for anyone doing similar work , be it for a conference or for a more permanent setup .
No textbook is going to protect against those " oh crap , why did n't I think of it before ?
" moments like some actual experience would , and this posting is the next best thing after actually having someone with experience on site .
And this works for any field of applied technology , not just wireless networking.So , thanks and be back with some more soon !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even though it's just a short report, it's going to be very valuable for anyone doing similar work, be it for a conference or for a more permanent setup.
No textbook is going to protect against those "oh crap, why didn't I think of it before?
" moments like some actual experience would, and this posting is the next best thing after actually having someone with experience on site.
And this works for any field of applied technology, not just wireless networking.So, thanks and be back with some more soon!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31367494</id>
	<title>Newegg Review</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1267725960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>    A good AP with tons of features.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Reviewed By: jafo on 2/24/2010<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Rating + 4<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tech Level Tech Level: high - Ownership: 1 month to 1 year</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Pros: Gigabit port, external antenna jacks, dual simultaneous 802.11n, Linux shell you can login on, Power over Ethernet. Tons of software features: multiple ESSIDs per radio (different authentication can connect you to different VLANs), logging to syslog server, WDS backhaul, easy to use configuration.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cons: Oddly shaped AP, I have 16 of them and carrying them can be a bit troublesome. I had serious issues with WPA disconnecting me after 5 to 15 minutes but WEP and no security both worked very well. There is no SNMP MIB available, I was able to figure out some wireless SNMP information but I ended up having to build an SSH+expect script to pull wireless stats. You can login, but most of the root file-system is a read-only squashfs, not JFFS2, so you can't put SSH keys or custom scripts that start on boot on it. The firmware is not available for download, but that'll probably change when there's an update available. The web interface uses "clever" authentication so it's very hard to script access to grab stats from it. It only supports a max of 63 clients per radio.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Other Thoughts: I got 16 of these APs for a conference and they performed admirably. We had around 1,000 users hitting them pretty hard. There were very few APs that had simultaneous 802.11n, particularly with gigabit and PoE: I had choices between this, a 3Com that isn't out yet, and a $800+ Cisco. The limit of 63 clients per radio probably isn't that far off the max you'd want, but I would have liked the option of pushing that up (we did end up hitting that but only 1\% of the time and only on 5.2GHz). For it's feature set, I'd say it's a reasonably priced AP with a good feature set. Search for "pycon wireless network" for the excruciating details, my 2010 review should be up in a few hours.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A good AP with tons of features .
        Reviewed By : jafo on 2/24/2010         Rating + 4         Tech Level Tech Level : high - Ownership : 1 month to 1 year         Pros : Gigabit port , external antenna jacks , dual simultaneous 802.11n , Linux shell you can login on , Power over Ethernet .
Tons of software features : multiple ESSIDs per radio ( different authentication can connect you to different VLANs ) , logging to syslog server , WDS backhaul , easy to use configuration .
        Cons : Oddly shaped AP , I have 16 of them and carrying them can be a bit troublesome .
I had serious issues with WPA disconnecting me after 5 to 15 minutes but WEP and no security both worked very well .
There is no SNMP MIB available , I was able to figure out some wireless SNMP information but I ended up having to build an SSH + expect script to pull wireless stats .
You can login , but most of the root file-system is a read-only squashfs , not JFFS2 , so you ca n't put SSH keys or custom scripts that start on boot on it .
The firmware is not available for download , but that 'll probably change when there 's an update available .
The web interface uses " clever " authentication so it 's very hard to script access to grab stats from it .
It only supports a max of 63 clients per radio .
        Other Thoughts : I got 16 of these APs for a conference and they performed admirably .
We had around 1,000 users hitting them pretty hard .
There were very few APs that had simultaneous 802.11n , particularly with gigabit and PoE : I had choices between this , a 3Com that is n't out yet , and a $ 800 + Cisco .
The limit of 63 clients per radio probably is n't that far off the max you 'd want , but I would have liked the option of pushing that up ( we did end up hitting that but only 1 \ % of the time and only on 5.2GHz ) .
For it 's feature set , I 'd say it 's a reasonably priced AP with a good feature set .
Search for " pycon wireless network " for the excruciating details , my 2010 review should be up in a few hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>    A good AP with tons of features.
        Reviewed By: jafo on 2/24/2010
        Rating + 4
        Tech Level Tech Level: high - Ownership: 1 month to 1 year
        Pros: Gigabit port, external antenna jacks, dual simultaneous 802.11n, Linux shell you can login on, Power over Ethernet.
Tons of software features: multiple ESSIDs per radio (different authentication can connect you to different VLANs), logging to syslog server, WDS backhaul, easy to use configuration.
        Cons: Oddly shaped AP, I have 16 of them and carrying them can be a bit troublesome.
I had serious issues with WPA disconnecting me after 5 to 15 minutes but WEP and no security both worked very well.
There is no SNMP MIB available, I was able to figure out some wireless SNMP information but I ended up having to build an SSH+expect script to pull wireless stats.
You can login, but most of the root file-system is a read-only squashfs, not JFFS2, so you can't put SSH keys or custom scripts that start on boot on it.
The firmware is not available for download, but that'll probably change when there's an update available.
The web interface uses "clever" authentication so it's very hard to script access to grab stats from it.
It only supports a max of 63 clients per radio.
        Other Thoughts: I got 16 of these APs for a conference and they performed admirably.
We had around 1,000 users hitting them pretty hard.
There were very few APs that had simultaneous 802.11n, particularly with gigabit and PoE: I had choices between this, a 3Com that isn't out yet, and a $800+ Cisco.
The limit of 63 clients per radio probably isn't that far off the max you'd want, but I would have liked the option of pushing that up (we did end up hitting that but only 1\% of the time and only on 5.2GHz).
For it's feature set, I'd say it's a reasonably priced AP with a good feature set.
Search for "pycon wireless network" for the excruciating details, my 2010 review should be up in a few hours.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357360</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31359226</id>
	<title>Re:On units and their prefixes</title>
	<author>frogzilla</author>
	<datestamp>1267724580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thank you.  I agree completely.  Units are important and are not just letters to be applied willy-nilly.  The m and M are not lower and upper case versions of a letter they are completely different symbols.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you .
I agree completely .
Units are important and are not just letters to be applied willy-nilly .
The m and M are not lower and upper case versions of a letter they are completely different symbols .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you.
I agree completely.
Units are important and are not just letters to be applied willy-nilly.
The m and M are not lower and upper case versions of a letter they are completely different symbols.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31362278</id>
	<title>b/g did not work at all</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267695720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wish that my laptop supported 802.11n. I was stuck on g networks and in most rooms I had no wifi connectivity.  (Could barely give a lightning talk as no internet was available to show a demo)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wish that my laptop supported 802.11n .
I was stuck on g networks and in most rooms I had no wifi connectivity .
( Could barely give a lightning talk as no internet was available to show a demo )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wish that my laptop supported 802.11n.
I was stuck on g networks and in most rooms I had no wifi connectivity.
(Could barely give a lightning talk as no internet was available to show a demo)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357342</id>
	<title>Py Con?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267714200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>what dat?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>what dat ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what dat?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31366372</id>
	<title>Re:Hmm, other equipment options?</title>
	<author>jafo</author>
	<datestamp>1267717440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The Ubiquity radios were seriously considered, but I definitely wanted MIMO and simultaneous 2.4 and 5.2 GHz in one box.<br><br>Remember, this is all volunteer run, so doubling the number of APs to setup, tear down, and manage was something I wanted to avoid.  Also, the Ubiquity gear mostly is not table-top form-factor.  It's mean for pole-mounting.  Not a good match for our needs.<br><br>As far as doing a crap job of serving both bands, that's been my experience with very cheap units.  These units on the other hand, both the Netgear and DLink, have performed admirably.<br><br>Sean</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Ubiquity radios were seriously considered , but I definitely wanted MIMO and simultaneous 2.4 and 5.2 GHz in one box.Remember , this is all volunteer run , so doubling the number of APs to setup , tear down , and manage was something I wanted to avoid .
Also , the Ubiquity gear mostly is not table-top form-factor .
It 's mean for pole-mounting .
Not a good match for our needs.As far as doing a crap job of serving both bands , that 's been my experience with very cheap units .
These units on the other hand , both the Netgear and DLink , have performed admirably.Sean</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Ubiquity radios were seriously considered, but I definitely wanted MIMO and simultaneous 2.4 and 5.2 GHz in one box.Remember, this is all volunteer run, so doubling the number of APs to setup, tear down, and manage was something I wanted to avoid.
Also, the Ubiquity gear mostly is not table-top form-factor.
It's mean for pole-mounting.
Not a good match for our needs.As far as doing a crap job of serving both bands, that's been my experience with very cheap units.
These units on the other hand, both the Netgear and DLink, have performed admirably.Sean</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357708</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31362292</id>
	<title>Re:Test, you idiot</title>
	<author>evilviper</author>
	<datestamp>1267695780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>A cable tester costs $15 and you neglected testing.</p></div></blockquote><p>A $15 cable tester will tell you 1/10th as much as you could find by looking at the crimped ends of the cable.  You'll get the wonderful green light on the cheapo tester no matter how much attenuation, crosstalk, etc, you're getting with a junk cable.</p><p>To really know you've got a halfway decent cable, you need a cable tester that runs around $1,000USD.  Do a search for "certification tester" and try to find a $15 unit.  And they're just getting more expensive as network speeds increase.  Fluke is by far the most popular brand in this space, but competitors exist.</p><p>The only promising development in this space is "TDR" options built-in to routers and high-end managed switches.  After a few years, I could see a surplus managed switch being cheaper than a cable meter, though a bit slower and more cumbersome to use on a large scale.</p><p>On that note, I would kill to find some bit of software that could use a commodity NIC to do something close to a certification test on any given cable, but I've never even found anyone else so much as mentioning the idea...  Understandable that it might not be possible, but that the idea hasn't even been proffered seems extremely strange...  Perhaps there are too few people who know $15 cable testers aren't even worth the effort.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A cable tester costs $ 15 and you neglected testing.A $ 15 cable tester will tell you 1/10th as much as you could find by looking at the crimped ends of the cable .
You 'll get the wonderful green light on the cheapo tester no matter how much attenuation , crosstalk , etc , you 're getting with a junk cable.To really know you 've got a halfway decent cable , you need a cable tester that runs around $ 1,000USD .
Do a search for " certification tester " and try to find a $ 15 unit .
And they 're just getting more expensive as network speeds increase .
Fluke is by far the most popular brand in this space , but competitors exist.The only promising development in this space is " TDR " options built-in to routers and high-end managed switches .
After a few years , I could see a surplus managed switch being cheaper than a cable meter , though a bit slower and more cumbersome to use on a large scale.On that note , I would kill to find some bit of software that could use a commodity NIC to do something close to a certification test on any given cable , but I 've never even found anyone else so much as mentioning the idea... Understandable that it might not be possible , but that the idea has n't even been proffered seems extremely strange... Perhaps there are too few people who know $ 15 cable testers are n't even worth the effort .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A cable tester costs $15 and you neglected testing.A $15 cable tester will tell you 1/10th as much as you could find by looking at the crimped ends of the cable.
You'll get the wonderful green light on the cheapo tester no matter how much attenuation, crosstalk, etc, you're getting with a junk cable.To really know you've got a halfway decent cable, you need a cable tester that runs around $1,000USD.
Do a search for "certification tester" and try to find a $15 unit.
And they're just getting more expensive as network speeds increase.
Fluke is by far the most popular brand in this space, but competitors exist.The only promising development in this space is "TDR" options built-in to routers and high-end managed switches.
After a few years, I could see a surplus managed switch being cheaper than a cable meter, though a bit slower and more cumbersome to use on a large scale.On that note, I would kill to find some bit of software that could use a commodity NIC to do something close to a certification test on any given cable, but I've never even found anyone else so much as mentioning the idea...  Understandable that it might not be possible, but that the idea hasn't even been proffered seems extremely strange...  Perhaps there are too few people who know $15 cable testers aren't even worth the effort.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357332</id>
	<title>Uhh</title>
	<author>robinstar1574</author>
	<datestamp>1267714200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why were you expecting it to melt down? The mere fact that it stayed up is a good thing. Why do you need to know the why? Was some idiot trying to melt it down? You should accept it as fact instead of questioning the why's.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why were you expecting it to melt down ?
The mere fact that it stayed up is a good thing .
Why do you need to know the why ?
Was some idiot trying to melt it down ?
You should accept it as fact instead of questioning the why 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why were you expecting it to melt down?
The mere fact that it stayed up is a good thing.
Why do you need to know the why?
Was some idiot trying to melt it down?
You should accept it as fact instead of questioning the why's.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357692</id>
	<title>Piffle.</title>
	<author>dtmos</author>
	<datestamp>1267716480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The bimonthly IEEE 802.11 standards meetings are co-located with other 802 wireless working groups (802.15, 16, et al.) and regularly have attendance from 600-1000 persons, substantially all of whom are active on 2.4GHz (802.11b/g) substantially all the time the meetings are in session (it's required to register session attendance, upload and download documents, etc., but is largely used for Internet-based multitasking).  These networks have worked flawlessly for years.  They are specially-built for the meetings by <a href="http://www.verilan.com/index.shtml" title="verilan.com">VeriLAN Event Services</a> [verilan.com], a company specializing in network services for special events.  Their web site claims that they have supported events with up to 5000 simultaneous users.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The bimonthly IEEE 802.11 standards meetings are co-located with other 802 wireless working groups ( 802.15 , 16 , et al .
) and regularly have attendance from 600-1000 persons , substantially all of whom are active on 2.4GHz ( 802.11b/g ) substantially all the time the meetings are in session ( it 's required to register session attendance , upload and download documents , etc. , but is largely used for Internet-based multitasking ) .
These networks have worked flawlessly for years .
They are specially-built for the meetings by VeriLAN Event Services [ verilan.com ] , a company specializing in network services for special events .
Their web site claims that they have supported events with up to 5000 simultaneous users .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The bimonthly IEEE 802.11 standards meetings are co-located with other 802 wireless working groups (802.15, 16, et al.
) and regularly have attendance from 600-1000 persons, substantially all of whom are active on 2.4GHz (802.11b/g) substantially all the time the meetings are in session (it's required to register session attendance, upload and download documents, etc., but is largely used for Internet-based multitasking).
These networks have worked flawlessly for years.
They are specially-built for the meetings by VeriLAN Event Services [verilan.com], a company specializing in network services for special events.
Their web site claims that they have supported events with up to 5000 simultaneous users.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357682</id>
	<title>Re:On units and their prefixes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267716420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For some, like &auml;, &szlig;, &euro;, you can just use the HTML entities (&amp;auml;, &amp;szlig;, &amp;euro;). More esoteric ones like &amp;#x0950; just won't work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For some , like   ,   ,    , you can just use the HTML entities (   ,   ,    ) .
More esoteric ones like    just wo n't work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For some, like ä, ß, €, you can just use the HTML entities (ä, ß, €).
More esoteric ones like ॐ just won't work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358370</id>
	<title>Re:IETF meetings solved this 2 years ago</title>
	<author>Omnifarious</author>
	<datestamp>1267720800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is there a good place that lists which equipment is good and which isn't?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is there a good place that lists which equipment is good and which is n't ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is there a good place that lists which equipment is good and which isn't?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358204</id>
	<title>This year I tried to get public IPs again...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267719900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This year I tried to get public IPs again, but we just weren't able to get any meaningful number of them. So, we had to do NAT. This worked well, and I had no complaints beyond the first one: one of the guys couldn't establish a PPTP connection. I had forgotten to load the NAT protocol modules... I loaded those up and it went smoothly after that.</p></div><p>And you think that's going to be more likely to happen in future years?!</p><p>Next time, set up IPv6.  Use 6to4 tunneling if you can't get an actual IPv6 drop from the network provider.  But just get IPv6.  Then everybody will have a public IP.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This year I tried to get public IPs again , but we just were n't able to get any meaningful number of them .
So , we had to do NAT .
This worked well , and I had no complaints beyond the first one : one of the guys could n't establish a PPTP connection .
I had forgotten to load the NAT protocol modules... I loaded those up and it went smoothly after that.And you think that 's going to be more likely to happen in future years ?
! Next time , set up IPv6 .
Use 6to4 tunneling if you ca n't get an actual IPv6 drop from the network provider .
But just get IPv6 .
Then everybody will have a public IP .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This year I tried to get public IPs again, but we just weren't able to get any meaningful number of them.
So, we had to do NAT.
This worked well, and I had no complaints beyond the first one: one of the guys couldn't establish a PPTP connection.
I had forgotten to load the NAT protocol modules... I loaded those up and it went smoothly after that.And you think that's going to be more likely to happen in future years?
!Next time, set up IPv6.
Use 6to4 tunneling if you can't get an actual IPv6 drop from the network provider.
But just get IPv6.
Then everybody will have a public IP.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31361050</id>
	<title>Re:This year I tried to get public IPs again...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267732740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah.  I was there, and I guarantee you--I don't run IPv6.  And I will resist it as long as I can, because it's a broken piece of crap in every implementation so far.  DNS munges it all the time, libc dns lookups handles it inconsistently with ipv4 and treats * records differently--resolving a * record in ipv6 before looking up the appropriate A record in ipv4 for a domain for example.  There's been other known bugs with the implementations for nearly six years that nobody's fixed, and yet we still have people screaming to use it.</p><p>And I don't feel like customizing my laptop's firewall rules to do anything other than reject ipv6 so I don't have to deal with this or troubleshoot it.  Hell--what was the last remote exploit in oBSD?  Oh yeah... ipv6.</p><p>Now, I don't expect jaf0 to support ludditism for the sake of as much.  But public IPs are actually invaluable in these spaces--people throw up a django install on their system and have it shown to their peers all over the net in a few minutes.  Heck--in order to preserve bandwidth last year I'd pulled down a VM over my 3g aircard and then served it internally.  I didn't *need* a public IP for that, but this is a conference where probably 75\% of the attendants are capable of throwing up a webserver in under five minutes with a few lines of code.  And it won't be Apache.</p><p>IPV6 just wouldn't meet the needs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah .
I was there , and I guarantee you--I do n't run IPv6 .
And I will resist it as long as I can , because it 's a broken piece of crap in every implementation so far .
DNS munges it all the time , libc dns lookups handles it inconsistently with ipv4 and treats * records differently--resolving a * record in ipv6 before looking up the appropriate A record in ipv4 for a domain for example .
There 's been other known bugs with the implementations for nearly six years that nobody 's fixed , and yet we still have people screaming to use it.And I do n't feel like customizing my laptop 's firewall rules to do anything other than reject ipv6 so I do n't have to deal with this or troubleshoot it .
Hell--what was the last remote exploit in oBSD ?
Oh yeah... ipv6.Now , I do n't expect jaf0 to support ludditism for the sake of as much .
But public IPs are actually invaluable in these spaces--people throw up a django install on their system and have it shown to their peers all over the net in a few minutes .
Heck--in order to preserve bandwidth last year I 'd pulled down a VM over my 3g aircard and then served it internally .
I did n't * need * a public IP for that , but this is a conference where probably 75 \ % of the attendants are capable of throwing up a webserver in under five minutes with a few lines of code .
And it wo n't be Apache.IPV6 just would n't meet the needs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah.
I was there, and I guarantee you--I don't run IPv6.
And I will resist it as long as I can, because it's a broken piece of crap in every implementation so far.
DNS munges it all the time, libc dns lookups handles it inconsistently with ipv4 and treats * records differently--resolving a * record in ipv6 before looking up the appropriate A record in ipv4 for a domain for example.
There's been other known bugs with the implementations for nearly six years that nobody's fixed, and yet we still have people screaming to use it.And I don't feel like customizing my laptop's firewall rules to do anything other than reject ipv6 so I don't have to deal with this or troubleshoot it.
Hell--what was the last remote exploit in oBSD?
Oh yeah... ipv6.Now, I don't expect jaf0 to support ludditism for the sake of as much.
But public IPs are actually invaluable in these spaces--people throw up a django install on their system and have it shown to their peers all over the net in a few minutes.
Heck--in order to preserve bandwidth last year I'd pulled down a VM over my 3g aircard and then served it internally.
I didn't *need* a public IP for that, but this is a conference where probably 75\% of the attendants are capable of throwing up a webserver in under five minutes with a few lines of code.
And it won't be Apache.IPV6 just wouldn't meet the needs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31358204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31367960</id>
	<title>Re:On units and their prefixes</title>
	<author>rdnetto</author>
	<datestamp>1267730820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>p is SI prefix for pico. So bps could be interpreted as bit-picoseconds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>p is SI prefix for pico .
So bps could be interpreted as bit-picoseconds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>p is SI prefix for pico.
So bps could be interpreted as bit-picoseconds.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_04_1315210.31357874</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_04_1315210_12</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_04_1315210_3</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_04_1315210_16</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_04_1315210_15</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_04_1315210_9</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_04_1315210_34</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_04_1315210_10</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_04_1315210_8</id>
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