<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_03_01_0117248</id>
	<title>An Exercise To Model a "Solar Radiation Katrina"</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1267449420000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://hughpickens.com/slashdot/" rel="nofollow">Hugh Pickens</a> writes in with an update on the warnings we discussed a year back about the <a href="//science.slashdot.org/story/09/01/12/1431215/Is-a-Katrina-Like-Space-Storm-Brewing">dangers of a "solar Katrina."</a> Now NPR is reporting on a tabletop exercise mounted in Boulder, Colorado by government workers attempting to <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124125001&amp;ft=1&amp;f=1007">model the effects of a worst-case solar electromagnetic storm.</a> <i>"...an exercise held in Boulder, Colorado, has investigated what might happen if the Earth were struck by a solar storm as intense as the <a href="http://www.solarstorms.org/SRefStorms.html">huge storms that occurred in 1921 and 1859</a> &mdash; a sort of solar Katrina &mdash; and researchers found that the impact is likely to be far worse than in previous solar storms because of our growing dependence on satellites and other electronic devices that are vulnerable to electromagnetic radiation. 'In many ways, the impact of a major solar storm resembles that of a hurricane or an earthquake,' says FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate, except that a solar Katrina would cause damage in a much larger area &mdash; power could be knocked out almost simultaneously in countries from Sweden to Canada and the US. In the exercise, the first sign of trouble came when radiation began disrupting radio signals and GPS devices, says Tom Bogdan, who directs the <a href="http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/">Space Weather Prediction Center</a>. Ten or 20 minutes later electrically charged particles 'basically took out' most of the commercial satellites that transmit telephone conversations, TV shows, and huge amounts of data we depend on in our daily lives. But the worst damage came nearly a day later, when the <a href="http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/NOAAscales/">solar storm began to induce electrical currents in high voltage power lines</a> strong enough to destroy transformers around the globe, leaving millions of people in northern latitudes without power."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hugh Pickens writes in with an update on the warnings we discussed a year back about the dangers of a " solar Katrina .
" Now NPR is reporting on a tabletop exercise mounted in Boulder , Colorado by government workers attempting to model the effects of a worst-case solar electromagnetic storm .
" ...an exercise held in Boulder , Colorado , has investigated what might happen if the Earth were struck by a solar storm as intense as the huge storms that occurred in 1921 and 1859    a sort of solar Katrina    and researchers found that the impact is likely to be far worse than in previous solar storms because of our growing dependence on satellites and other electronic devices that are vulnerable to electromagnetic radiation .
'In many ways , the impact of a major solar storm resembles that of a hurricane or an earthquake, ' says FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate , except that a solar Katrina would cause damage in a much larger area    power could be knocked out almost simultaneously in countries from Sweden to Canada and the US .
In the exercise , the first sign of trouble came when radiation began disrupting radio signals and GPS devices , says Tom Bogdan , who directs the Space Weather Prediction Center .
Ten or 20 minutes later electrically charged particles 'basically took out ' most of the commercial satellites that transmit telephone conversations , TV shows , and huge amounts of data we depend on in our daily lives .
But the worst damage came nearly a day later , when the solar storm began to induce electrical currents in high voltage power lines strong enough to destroy transformers around the globe , leaving millions of people in northern latitudes without power .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hugh Pickens writes in with an update on the warnings we discussed a year back about the dangers of a "solar Katrina.
" Now NPR is reporting on a tabletop exercise mounted in Boulder, Colorado by government workers attempting to model the effects of a worst-case solar electromagnetic storm.
"...an exercise held in Boulder, Colorado, has investigated what might happen if the Earth were struck by a solar storm as intense as the huge storms that occurred in 1921 and 1859 — a sort of solar Katrina — and researchers found that the impact is likely to be far worse than in previous solar storms because of our growing dependence on satellites and other electronic devices that are vulnerable to electromagnetic radiation.
'In many ways, the impact of a major solar storm resembles that of a hurricane or an earthquake,' says FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate, except that a solar Katrina would cause damage in a much larger area — power could be knocked out almost simultaneously in countries from Sweden to Canada and the US.
In the exercise, the first sign of trouble came when radiation began disrupting radio signals and GPS devices, says Tom Bogdan, who directs the Space Weather Prediction Center.
Ten or 20 minutes later electrically charged particles 'basically took out' most of the commercial satellites that transmit telephone conversations, TV shows, and huge amounts of data we depend on in our daily lives.
But the worst damage came nearly a day later, when the solar storm began to induce electrical currents in high voltage power lines strong enough to destroy transformers around the globe, leaving millions of people in northern latitudes without power.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316634</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267461000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Strange that the experts disagree with you.</p><p>Or perhaps not so strange?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Strange that the experts disagree with you.Or perhaps not so strange ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Strange that the experts disagree with you.Or perhaps not so strange?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316594</id>
	<title>scifi novel "One Second After"</title>
	<author>peter303</author>
	<datestamp>1267460880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Was about a mysterious EMP that knocked out all electricity networks and computers in the USA and difficulty of returning to pre-1880 lifestyle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Was about a mysterious EMP that knocked out all electricity networks and computers in the USA and difficulty of returning to pre-1880 lifestyle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Was about a mysterious EMP that knocked out all electricity networks and computers in the USA and difficulty of returning to pre-1880 lifestyle.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316472</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>Nadaka</author>
	<datestamp>1267460280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bullshit.</p><p>A: New Orleans had a population of about 300 thousand. not tens of thousands.<br>B: There were over 3 million people severely affected by hurricane Katrina. The radius of destruction was over 200 kilometers.<br>C: The problem was not people who were uninsured. It was people who were insured and the insurance company refused to pay their rightful claims, delayed payments for years or attempted to pay less than they owed.<br>D: We were literally told by insurance companies that they were not going to pay because then they wouldn't have enough money to cover the next disaster.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bullshit.A : New Orleans had a population of about 300 thousand .
not tens of thousands.B : There were over 3 million people severely affected by hurricane Katrina .
The radius of destruction was over 200 kilometers.C : The problem was not people who were uninsured .
It was people who were insured and the insurance company refused to pay their rightful claims , delayed payments for years or attempted to pay less than they owed.D : We were literally told by insurance companies that they were not going to pay because then they would n't have enough money to cover the next disaster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bullshit.A: New Orleans had a population of about 300 thousand.
not tens of thousands.B: There were over 3 million people severely affected by hurricane Katrina.
The radius of destruction was over 200 kilometers.C: The problem was not people who were uninsured.
It was people who were insured and the insurance company refused to pay their rightful claims, delayed payments for years or attempted to pay less than they owed.D: We were literally told by insurance companies that they were not going to pay because then they wouldn't have enough money to cover the next disaster.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315002</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316738</id>
	<title>Re:Causality or coincidence?</title>
	<author>conureman</author>
	<datestamp>1267461300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Could get colder, or not. Maybe France gets a new Sun King?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Could get colder , or not .
Maybe France gets a new Sun King ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Could get colder, or not.
Maybe France gets a new Sun King?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31314822</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315828</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GPS failure is not a minor thing.  The FAA is on the way towards a "Nextgen" airspace system that is getting rid of radar for flight tracking, depending instead on transmissions from airplanes (with GPS coords) for flight separation.  The GPS navigation function is also taking over for all the land based systems (that have at least a little better chance of survival).  ADF sites are being phased out now, LORAN just got the axe, and VORs are rumored to be next.  We're well on our way to being totally dependent on those GPS satellites for commercial aviation (I suspect shipping may have the same problems).  About the only people that are safe are private pilots in single engine airplanes that are not required to have flight following and can operate solely by visual reference.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GPS failure is not a minor thing .
The FAA is on the way towards a " Nextgen " airspace system that is getting rid of radar for flight tracking , depending instead on transmissions from airplanes ( with GPS coords ) for flight separation .
The GPS navigation function is also taking over for all the land based systems ( that have at least a little better chance of survival ) .
ADF sites are being phased out now , LORAN just got the axe , and VORs are rumored to be next .
We 're well on our way to being totally dependent on those GPS satellites for commercial aviation ( I suspect shipping may have the same problems ) .
About the only people that are safe are private pilots in single engine airplanes that are not required to have flight following and can operate solely by visual reference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GPS failure is not a minor thing.
The FAA is on the way towards a "Nextgen" airspace system that is getting rid of radar for flight tracking, depending instead on transmissions from airplanes (with GPS coords) for flight separation.
The GPS navigation function is also taking over for all the land based systems (that have at least a little better chance of survival).
ADF sites are being phased out now, LORAN just got the axe, and VORs are rumored to be next.
We're well on our way to being totally dependent on those GPS satellites for commercial aviation (I suspect shipping may have the same problems).
About the only people that are safe are private pilots in single engine airplanes that are not required to have flight following and can operate solely by visual reference.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31314858</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31320846</id>
	<title>no communication worse than no power?</title>
	<author>peter303</author>
	<datestamp>1267476960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Geezers like myself are into TV and radio while youngsters are addicted to their tweetBook networks.  All could go silent for months in a solar superstorm.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Geezers like myself are into TV and radio while youngsters are addicted to their tweetBook networks .
All could go silent for months in a solar superstorm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Geezers like myself are into TV and radio while youngsters are addicted to their tweetBook networks.
All could go silent for months in a solar superstorm.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31356720</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>RockDoctor</author>
	<datestamp>1267709040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The key problem about the flare is the rate of production of transformers -- it would be literally months before much of the northern part of the US and Canada got power back.</p></div></blockquote><p>And this is a problem because<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... ?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The key problem about the flare is the rate of production of transformers -- it would be literally months before much of the northern part of the US and Canada got power back.And this is a problem because ... ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The key problem about the flare is the rate of production of transformers -- it would be literally months before much of the northern part of the US and Canada got power back.And this is a problem because ... ?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315002</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315002</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>tgd</author>
	<datestamp>1267454580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Um, 100 million people without power for a few months is a much bigger deal than a few tens of thousands who chose to live below sea level, or chose to stop insuring their house when they no longer owed any payments on it.</p><p>The key problem about the flare is the rate of production of transformers -- it would be literally months before much of the northern part of the US and Canada got power back.</p><p>If that happens during the winter, you're talking a LOT of people freezing to death.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Um , 100 million people without power for a few months is a much bigger deal than a few tens of thousands who chose to live below sea level , or chose to stop insuring their house when they no longer owed any payments on it.The key problem about the flare is the rate of production of transformers -- it would be literally months before much of the northern part of the US and Canada got power back.If that happens during the winter , you 're talking a LOT of people freezing to death .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um, 100 million people without power for a few months is a much bigger deal than a few tens of thousands who chose to live below sea level, or chose to stop insuring their house when they no longer owed any payments on it.The key problem about the flare is the rate of production of transformers -- it would be literally months before much of the northern part of the US and Canada got power back.If that happens during the winter, you're talking a LOT of people freezing to death.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31314858</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315418</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>delt0r</author>
	<datestamp>1267456620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You would not be without power for months. This is not some cheap 2012 disaster flick. Canada's grid was up and running in 9 hours. A big outage would be days in parts at most. It won't "destroy" transformers outright... merely "disrupt" them (ever heard of rewinding). Many would be fixable in a reasonably short time.
<br> <br>
The idea that everyone would just sit around twiddling their thumbs for months without power is totally laughable. That they would sit around waiting to freeze to death is plain stupid.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You would not be without power for months .
This is not some cheap 2012 disaster flick .
Canada 's grid was up and running in 9 hours .
A big outage would be days in parts at most .
It wo n't " destroy " transformers outright... merely " disrupt " them ( ever heard of rewinding ) .
Many would be fixable in a reasonably short time .
The idea that everyone would just sit around twiddling their thumbs for months without power is totally laughable .
That they would sit around waiting to freeze to death is plain stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You would not be without power for months.
This is not some cheap 2012 disaster flick.
Canada's grid was up and running in 9 hours.
A big outage would be days in parts at most.
It won't "destroy" transformers outright... merely "disrupt" them (ever heard of rewinding).
Many would be fixable in a reasonably short time.
The idea that everyone would just sit around twiddling their thumbs for months without power is totally laughable.
That they would sit around waiting to freeze to death is plain stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315002</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31317184</id>
	<title>Re:your false complacency s worse than false alarm</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267462920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...communications will be down across radio, television, and internet, so the police, and the population, will be left to guess what is going on and when everything will be back to normal....</p></div><p>Minor nitpick: I'm guessing you're not familiar with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur\_Radio\_Emergency\_Service" title="wikipedia.org">ARES</a> [wikipedia.org].  All you need for radio communication is a transmitter and a receiver, and both can be powered by batteries.  I have a handheld unit that has a range of approximately 80-100 miles and can be recharged with a solar cell and I have a base station that can contact people across the entire planet under the right conditions (solar activity actually helps) and can also be battery operated.</p><p>While communications may be a little slower they wouldn't shut down completely.  You might just be stuck asking your neighbor for updates or meeting everyone at the town hall instead of reading about it online.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...communications will be down across radio , television , and internet , so the police , and the population , will be left to guess what is going on and when everything will be back to normal....Minor nitpick : I 'm guessing you 're not familiar with ARES [ wikipedia.org ] .
All you need for radio communication is a transmitter and a receiver , and both can be powered by batteries .
I have a handheld unit that has a range of approximately 80-100 miles and can be recharged with a solar cell and I have a base station that can contact people across the entire planet under the right conditions ( solar activity actually helps ) and can also be battery operated.While communications may be a little slower they would n't shut down completely .
You might just be stuck asking your neighbor for updates or meeting everyone at the town hall instead of reading about it online .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...communications will be down across radio, television, and internet, so the police, and the population, will be left to guess what is going on and when everything will be back to normal....Minor nitpick: I'm guessing you're not familiar with ARES [wikipedia.org].
All you need for radio communication is a transmitter and a receiver, and both can be powered by batteries.
I have a handheld unit that has a range of approximately 80-100 miles and can be recharged with a solar cell and I have a base station that can contact people across the entire planet under the right conditions (solar activity actually helps) and can also be battery operated.While communications may be a little slower they wouldn't shut down completely.
You might just be stuck asking your neighbor for updates or meeting everyone at the town hall instead of reading about it online.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316346</id>
	<title>your false complacency s worse than false alarmism</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1267459680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>nobody is going to be rewinding transformers like macgyver. that's a serious buttload of skilled work, with equipment and supplies that is not easily at hand</p><p>furthermore, the canada disruption you are referring to is tiny in comparison to a carrington effect-level event. it won't be days at most, but weeks at a minimum. we simply haven't invested in the transformers protection or backup or the transformer repair skill/ capacity</p><p>and no one is saying people will just be sitting around twiddling their thumbs. in fact, some will be emphatically looting. and the police cruisers will soon run out of gas since most stations use electric gas pumps. nevermind that after the generators die in a few days/ hours, communications will be down across radio, television, and internet, so the police, and the population, will be left to guess what is going on and when everything will be back to normal. throw in a little hysteria, and you can imagine the results in major cities</p><p>people WILL freeze to death, simply because they will NOT just sit around, but panic and venture out in the cold out of complete ignorance and fright</p><p>do you consider me alarmist? out of intellectual honesty, i will say it is possible i am straying too far into alarmism in my comments</p><p>however, to whatever degree i am straying into alarmism, you are straying much further and much more dangerously into complacency on this issue, that is for sure. in other words, your complacency here is far more dangerous than my alarmism</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>nobody is going to be rewinding transformers like macgyver .
that 's a serious buttload of skilled work , with equipment and supplies that is not easily at handfurthermore , the canada disruption you are referring to is tiny in comparison to a carrington effect-level event .
it wo n't be days at most , but weeks at a minimum .
we simply have n't invested in the transformers protection or backup or the transformer repair skill/ capacityand no one is saying people will just be sitting around twiddling their thumbs .
in fact , some will be emphatically looting .
and the police cruisers will soon run out of gas since most stations use electric gas pumps .
nevermind that after the generators die in a few days/ hours , communications will be down across radio , television , and internet , so the police , and the population , will be left to guess what is going on and when everything will be back to normal .
throw in a little hysteria , and you can imagine the results in major citiespeople WILL freeze to death , simply because they will NOT just sit around , but panic and venture out in the cold out of complete ignorance and frightdo you consider me alarmist ?
out of intellectual honesty , i will say it is possible i am straying too far into alarmism in my commentshowever , to whatever degree i am straying into alarmism , you are straying much further and much more dangerously into complacency on this issue , that is for sure .
in other words , your complacency here is far more dangerous than my alarmism</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nobody is going to be rewinding transformers like macgyver.
that's a serious buttload of skilled work, with equipment and supplies that is not easily at handfurthermore, the canada disruption you are referring to is tiny in comparison to a carrington effect-level event.
it won't be days at most, but weeks at a minimum.
we simply haven't invested in the transformers protection or backup or the transformer repair skill/ capacityand no one is saying people will just be sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
in fact, some will be emphatically looting.
and the police cruisers will soon run out of gas since most stations use electric gas pumps.
nevermind that after the generators die in a few days/ hours, communications will be down across radio, television, and internet, so the police, and the population, will be left to guess what is going on and when everything will be back to normal.
throw in a little hysteria, and you can imagine the results in major citiespeople WILL freeze to death, simply because they will NOT just sit around, but panic and venture out in the cold out of complete ignorance and frightdo you consider me alarmist?
out of intellectual honesty, i will say it is possible i am straying too far into alarmism in my commentshowever, to whatever degree i am straying into alarmism, you are straying much further and much more dangerously into complacency on this issue, that is for sure.
in other words, your complacency here is far more dangerous than my alarmism</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31318650</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>soulsteal</author>
	<datestamp>1267468200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Insurance comapnies had seen this before with Hurricane Betsy in New Orleans and Hurricane Camille in South Mississippi. They knew that huge-ass storms could come through and level the places and they knew the value of all the property. They relied on the out that Federal Flood insuance gives them on their policies. Except that when Katrina came through, it brought more water than Camille or Betsy ever did, so people got flooded who were living higher than the 500-year floodplain.</p><p>It was just a giant mess, but it wasn't helped that everyone involved made bad choices. I say this as a native of Biloxi, MS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Insurance comapnies had seen this before with Hurricane Betsy in New Orleans and Hurricane Camille in South Mississippi .
They knew that huge-ass storms could come through and level the places and they knew the value of all the property .
They relied on the out that Federal Flood insuance gives them on their policies .
Except that when Katrina came through , it brought more water than Camille or Betsy ever did , so people got flooded who were living higher than the 500-year floodplain.It was just a giant mess , but it was n't helped that everyone involved made bad choices .
I say this as a native of Biloxi , MS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Insurance comapnies had seen this before with Hurricane Betsy in New Orleans and Hurricane Camille in South Mississippi.
They knew that huge-ass storms could come through and level the places and they knew the value of all the property.
They relied on the out that Federal Flood insuance gives them on their policies.
Except that when Katrina came through, it brought more water than Camille or Betsy ever did, so people got flooded who were living higher than the 500-year floodplain.It was just a giant mess, but it wasn't helped that everyone involved made bad choices.
I say this as a native of Biloxi, MS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315884</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315170</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267455600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Also the areas affected would be dependant on the current tilt of the earth and which side is facing the sun as it hit. The other half would be mostly unaffected."

These storms dont last a few minutes, they last days.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Also the areas affected would be dependant on the current tilt of the earth and which side is facing the sun as it hit .
The other half would be mostly unaffected .
" These storms dont last a few minutes , they last days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Also the areas affected would be dependant on the current tilt of the earth and which side is facing the sun as it hit.
The other half would be mostly unaffected.
"

These storms dont last a few minutes, they last days.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31314858</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31317830</id>
	<title>Could another country take advantage of USA?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267465440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If this happened to hit the USA, it would be like a nuke EMP first-strike.  I wonder if another country like China or even a smaller country might take advantage of the USA's loss of infrastructure to attack it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If this happened to hit the USA , it would be like a nuke EMP first-strike .
I wonder if another country like China or even a smaller country might take advantage of the USA 's loss of infrastructure to attack it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this happened to hit the USA, it would be like a nuke EMP first-strike.
I wonder if another country like China or even a smaller country might take advantage of the USA's loss of infrastructure to attack it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31314952</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267454160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>White people lose electricity.<br>
World ends.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>White people lose electricity .
World ends .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>White people lose electricity.
World ends.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31314858</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315818</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>aurizon</author>
	<datestamp>1267458120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think a solar flare varies in intensity over the sphere represented by Earth's orbit.<br>
&nbsp; There is a mass of charged particles tossed out that take a number of hours to reach Earth's orbit. There is also a flare of radiation that gets here in 9 minutes.<br>From what I read this radiation, magnetic as well as assorted stuff from Gamma to long wave radio spreads out uniformly and is spread over a large area by the time it hits Earth's orbit.<br>The large lump of particles is far smaller and might miss the earth, pass close by or whack us. If it whacks us, we get these large induced currents in long lines and the peak volts associated with them, so with a solar flare known to be in transit we need to snoop it to see where the ejected material is going to hit and when. With this knowledge we can close down some transmission lines and produce a man made blackout of short duration that we can end in a controlled manner, with little or no destruction of lines and transformers. Once the flare has passed, back to the way we were. As for satellites? Possibly they can be powered down or placed into a mode that minimizes the flare damage, and then turned on afterwards, and we will suffer less destruction, but we will have the interruption of services as a lesser evil.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think a solar flare varies in intensity over the sphere represented by Earth 's orbit .
  There is a mass of charged particles tossed out that take a number of hours to reach Earth 's orbit .
There is also a flare of radiation that gets here in 9 minutes.From what I read this radiation , magnetic as well as assorted stuff from Gamma to long wave radio spreads out uniformly and is spread over a large area by the time it hits Earth 's orbit.The large lump of particles is far smaller and might miss the earth , pass close by or whack us .
If it whacks us , we get these large induced currents in long lines and the peak volts associated with them , so with a solar flare known to be in transit we need to snoop it to see where the ejected material is going to hit and when .
With this knowledge we can close down some transmission lines and produce a man made blackout of short duration that we can end in a controlled manner , with little or no destruction of lines and transformers .
Once the flare has passed , back to the way we were .
As for satellites ?
Possibly they can be powered down or placed into a mode that minimizes the flare damage , and then turned on afterwards , and we will suffer less destruction , but we will have the interruption of services as a lesser evil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think a solar flare varies in intensity over the sphere represented by Earth's orbit.
  There is a mass of charged particles tossed out that take a number of hours to reach Earth's orbit.
There is also a flare of radiation that gets here in 9 minutes.From what I read this radiation, magnetic as well as assorted stuff from Gamma to long wave radio spreads out uniformly and is spread over a large area by the time it hits Earth's orbit.The large lump of particles is far smaller and might miss the earth, pass close by or whack us.
If it whacks us, we get these large induced currents in long lines and the peak volts associated with them, so with a solar flare known to be in transit we need to snoop it to see where the ejected material is going to hit and when.
With this knowledge we can close down some transmission lines and produce a man made blackout of short duration that we can end in a controlled manner, with little or no destruction of lines and transformers.
Once the flare has passed, back to the way we were.
As for satellites?
Possibly they can be powered down or placed into a mode that minimizes the flare damage, and then turned on afterwards, and we will suffer less destruction, but we will have the interruption of services as a lesser evil.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31314858</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315884</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267458420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Insurance adjusters were set up after the event; because of limited capacity on the insurers part, a lack of insurance adjusters in the market, and legal limitations on waiting on claims, they had tables with people writing checks for the full value of the houses in many cases, with visual confirmation of destruction, or in some cases based purely on the location of the house in an area with massive damage. Insurance companies, in many cases, paid out more in total than they expected to ever pay out for an event. Their rates were too low to cover events of this magnitude, because they hadn't seen it happen before and didn't rely on models properly to understand worst cases losses. You may hate them because they make money, but they got killed on Katrina, almost all lost significantly more than anticipated.</p><p>Disclaimer: I work in the industry, and have spoken to adjusters and catastrophe modelers who were involved in the post-event insurance cleanup. I wasn't there, but neither were you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Insurance adjusters were set up after the event ; because of limited capacity on the insurers part , a lack of insurance adjusters in the market , and legal limitations on waiting on claims , they had tables with people writing checks for the full value of the houses in many cases , with visual confirmation of destruction , or in some cases based purely on the location of the house in an area with massive damage .
Insurance companies , in many cases , paid out more in total than they expected to ever pay out for an event .
Their rates were too low to cover events of this magnitude , because they had n't seen it happen before and did n't rely on models properly to understand worst cases losses .
You may hate them because they make money , but they got killed on Katrina , almost all lost significantly more than anticipated.Disclaimer : I work in the industry , and have spoken to adjusters and catastrophe modelers who were involved in the post-event insurance cleanup .
I was n't there , but neither were you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Insurance adjusters were set up after the event; because of limited capacity on the insurers part, a lack of insurance adjusters in the market, and legal limitations on waiting on claims, they had tables with people writing checks for the full value of the houses in many cases, with visual confirmation of destruction, or in some cases based purely on the location of the house in an area with massive damage.
Insurance companies, in many cases, paid out more in total than they expected to ever pay out for an event.
Their rates were too low to cover events of this magnitude, because they hadn't seen it happen before and didn't rely on models properly to understand worst cases losses.
You may hate them because they make money, but they got killed on Katrina, almost all lost significantly more than anticipated.Disclaimer: I work in the industry, and have spoken to adjusters and catastrophe modelers who were involved in the post-event insurance cleanup.
I wasn't there, but neither were you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315304</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31321432</id>
	<title>a film maybe</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267435860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>in the mean time, I think it could be a fantastic science fiction movie.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>in the mean time , I think it could be a fantastic science fiction movie .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>in the mean time, I think it could be a fantastic science fiction movie.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315206</id>
	<title>Um, no.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267455840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're mixing up two effects.  You're correct that the direct EM radiation would affect largely only the sunlit portion of the Earth.  However, the "second punch" of these events is the large burst of protons that arrives the next day -- it's the solar wind, but several orders of magnitude larger than usual.</p><p>These protons are affected by the geomagnetic field, and (to simplify a lot) rain down in large regions generally centered around the magnetic poles (cf. the <a href="http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/pmap/" title="noaa.gov">auroral ovals</a> [noaa.gov]), where they induce very large currents in long conductors like power lines, leading to general power failures that could not be easily repaired.</p><p>This wouldn't be your garden-variety blackout -- it would require physical replacement of massive equipment for which there are no spares readily available -- at least not in the quantities needed.  Large numbers of people -- entire provinces and states in North America, and likely entire nations in northern Europe --  would be without power for months while new equipment was manufactured and installed.  This would lead to mass migrations out of these areas, which would lead to social disruption and significant loss of life as critical systems, whose backup generators and other emergency systems were not designed for such an extended outage, failed.</p><p>I was in south Florida for <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane\_Wilma" title="wikipedia.org">Hurricane Wilma</a> [wikipedia.org], and I can report to you that the social structure of the region almost broke down during the week or two the region was without electricity -- and this was a natural disaster, albeit a severe one, that people understood and had largely prepared for.  Power was restored relatively quickly then, because (a) the causes, downed power lines, were easy to find and repair, and (b) there was a massive influx of utility workers from the rest of the country to help out.  In a solar flare scenario, the cause would be much harder to fix, and there would be a much larger affected area (and, consequently, a much smaller unaffected area from which to draw support).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're mixing up two effects .
You 're correct that the direct EM radiation would affect largely only the sunlit portion of the Earth .
However , the " second punch " of these events is the large burst of protons that arrives the next day -- it 's the solar wind , but several orders of magnitude larger than usual.These protons are affected by the geomagnetic field , and ( to simplify a lot ) rain down in large regions generally centered around the magnetic poles ( cf .
the auroral ovals [ noaa.gov ] ) , where they induce very large currents in long conductors like power lines , leading to general power failures that could not be easily repaired.This would n't be your garden-variety blackout -- it would require physical replacement of massive equipment for which there are no spares readily available -- at least not in the quantities needed .
Large numbers of people -- entire provinces and states in North America , and likely entire nations in northern Europe -- would be without power for months while new equipment was manufactured and installed .
This would lead to mass migrations out of these areas , which would lead to social disruption and significant loss of life as critical systems , whose backup generators and other emergency systems were not designed for such an extended outage , failed.I was in south Florida for Hurricane Wilma [ wikipedia.org ] , and I can report to you that the social structure of the region almost broke down during the week or two the region was without electricity -- and this was a natural disaster , albeit a severe one , that people understood and had largely prepared for .
Power was restored relatively quickly then , because ( a ) the causes , downed power lines , were easy to find and repair , and ( b ) there was a massive influx of utility workers from the rest of the country to help out .
In a solar flare scenario , the cause would be much harder to fix , and there would be a much larger affected area ( and , consequently , a much smaller unaffected area from which to draw support ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're mixing up two effects.
You're correct that the direct EM radiation would affect largely only the sunlit portion of the Earth.
However, the "second punch" of these events is the large burst of protons that arrives the next day -- it's the solar wind, but several orders of magnitude larger than usual.These protons are affected by the geomagnetic field, and (to simplify a lot) rain down in large regions generally centered around the magnetic poles (cf.
the auroral ovals [noaa.gov]), where they induce very large currents in long conductors like power lines, leading to general power failures that could not be easily repaired.This wouldn't be your garden-variety blackout -- it would require physical replacement of massive equipment for which there are no spares readily available -- at least not in the quantities needed.
Large numbers of people -- entire provinces and states in North America, and likely entire nations in northern Europe --  would be without power for months while new equipment was manufactured and installed.
This would lead to mass migrations out of these areas, which would lead to social disruption and significant loss of life as critical systems, whose backup generators and other emergency systems were not designed for such an extended outage, failed.I was in south Florida for Hurricane Wilma [wikipedia.org], and I can report to you that the social structure of the region almost broke down during the week or two the region was without electricity -- and this was a natural disaster, albeit a severe one, that people understood and had largely prepared for.
Power was restored relatively quickly then, because (a) the causes, downed power lines, were easy to find and repair, and (b) there was a massive influx of utility workers from the rest of the country to help out.
In a solar flare scenario, the cause would be much harder to fix, and there would be a much larger affected area (and, consequently, a much smaller unaffected area from which to draw support).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31314858</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31320372</id>
	<title>Radio interview with author of "One Second After"</title>
	<author>Boawk</author>
	<datestamp>1267475100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here you can find a 2-hour interview with William Forstchen, the author of "One Second After".
Good info on societal breakdown issues related to an EMP pulse.
<a href="http://www.850koa.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=217732&amp;article=5800699" title="850koa.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.850koa.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=217732&amp;article=5800699</a> [850koa.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here you can find a 2-hour interview with William Forstchen , the author of " One Second After " .
Good info on societal breakdown issues related to an EMP pulse .
http : //www.850koa.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html ? feed = 217732&amp;article = 5800699 [ 850koa.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here you can find a 2-hour interview with William Forstchen, the author of "One Second After".
Good info on societal breakdown issues related to an EMP pulse.
http://www.850koa.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=217732&amp;article=5800699 [850koa.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31323976</id>
	<title>Re:scifi novel "One Second After"</title>
	<author>Krimsen</author>
	<datestamp>1267446060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>[What] about a mysterious EMP that knocked out all electricity networks and computers in the USA and difficulty of returning to pre-1880 lifestyle.</p></div><p>This is covered in this ForeignPolicy.com post: <a href="http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/17/the\_boogeyman\_bomb" title="foreignpolicy.com">http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/17/the\_boogeyman\_bomb</a> [foreignpolicy.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>[ What ] about a mysterious EMP that knocked out all electricity networks and computers in the USA and difficulty of returning to pre-1880 lifestyle.This is covered in this ForeignPolicy.com post : http : //www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/17/the \ _boogeyman \ _bomb [ foreignpolicy.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[What] about a mysterious EMP that knocked out all electricity networks and computers in the USA and difficulty of returning to pre-1880 lifestyle.This is covered in this ForeignPolicy.com post: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/17/the\_boogeyman\_bomb [foreignpolicy.com]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31318450</id>
	<title>Re:your false complacency s worse than false alarm</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1267467600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're right uit eill be bad, but lets think about some of your comments.</p><p>Rewinding transformers take coper wire, a dowel, and patience. It's not easy but crude systems could be put inplace.<br>Also, there is equipment sitting on shelves.</p><p>I think the police and nation guard can figure out that a hand pump will get them fuel. Most HAM operators I know have solar rigs. So crude communication will be available to prioritized personnel.</p><p>depending on the length of the even, half the world may only have minimal effects.</p><p>Key to survival will be organizing your immediate community.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're right uit eill be bad , but lets think about some of your comments.Rewinding transformers take coper wire , a dowel , and patience .
It 's not easy but crude systems could be put inplace.Also , there is equipment sitting on shelves.I think the police and nation guard can figure out that a hand pump will get them fuel .
Most HAM operators I know have solar rigs .
So crude communication will be available to prioritized personnel.depending on the length of the even , half the world may only have minimal effects.Key to survival will be organizing your immediate community .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're right uit eill be bad, but lets think about some of your comments.Rewinding transformers take coper wire, a dowel, and patience.
It's not easy but crude systems could be put inplace.Also, there is equipment sitting on shelves.I think the police and nation guard can figure out that a hand pump will get them fuel.
Most HAM operators I know have solar rigs.
So crude communication will be available to prioritized personnel.depending on the length of the even, half the world may only have minimal effects.Key to survival will be organizing your immediate community.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31324990</id>
	<title>The Day the Machines Stopped</title>
	<author>ChrisMaple</author>
	<datestamp>1267452120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1965, Christopher Anvil. More severe than a one-time event that kills electrical devices, "The Day the Machines Stopped" posits a world in which all materials become weaker and electrical systems can never be restored.</p><p>An EMP event, after all, does not mean that the system can't be rebuilt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1965 , Christopher Anvil .
More severe than a one-time event that kills electrical devices , " The Day the Machines Stopped " posits a world in which all materials become weaker and electrical systems can never be restored.An EMP event , after all , does not mean that the system ca n't be rebuilt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1965, Christopher Anvil.
More severe than a one-time event that kills electrical devices, "The Day the Machines Stopped" posits a world in which all materials become weaker and electrical systems can never be restored.An EMP event, after all, does not mean that the system can't be rebuilt.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315304</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>dkleinsc</author>
	<datestamp>1267456200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>or chose to stop insuring their house when they no longer owed any payments on it</p></div><p>Although this doesn't affect your main point, it's worth mentioning that a lot of the folks who got no or a minimal insurance payment were insured against flood damage, but the insurance companies found creative ways not to pay. An example of the kind of thinking that was employed: your neighbor's house crashing through your living room isn't water damage, so we don't have to pay the flood policy on that damage. But because the incident in question was caused by a flood rather than a fire or tornado, we also don't have to pay the regular homeowner's policy. Therefore, you get only payment for cleaning up the water damage. Another common tactic was to refuse to pay unless the homeowner could provide documentation for their policy, which was of course lost in the flood.</p><p>In short, insurance offered very limited at best protection for New Orleans homeowners.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>or chose to stop insuring their house when they no longer owed any payments on itAlthough this does n't affect your main point , it 's worth mentioning that a lot of the folks who got no or a minimal insurance payment were insured against flood damage , but the insurance companies found creative ways not to pay .
An example of the kind of thinking that was employed : your neighbor 's house crashing through your living room is n't water damage , so we do n't have to pay the flood policy on that damage .
But because the incident in question was caused by a flood rather than a fire or tornado , we also do n't have to pay the regular homeowner 's policy .
Therefore , you get only payment for cleaning up the water damage .
Another common tactic was to refuse to pay unless the homeowner could provide documentation for their policy , which was of course lost in the flood.In short , insurance offered very limited at best protection for New Orleans homeowners .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>or chose to stop insuring their house when they no longer owed any payments on itAlthough this doesn't affect your main point, it's worth mentioning that a lot of the folks who got no or a minimal insurance payment were insured against flood damage, but the insurance companies found creative ways not to pay.
An example of the kind of thinking that was employed: your neighbor's house crashing through your living room isn't water damage, so we don't have to pay the flood policy on that damage.
But because the incident in question was caused by a flood rather than a fire or tornado, we also don't have to pay the regular homeowner's policy.
Therefore, you get only payment for cleaning up the water damage.
Another common tactic was to refuse to pay unless the homeowner could provide documentation for their policy, which was of course lost in the flood.In short, insurance offered very limited at best protection for New Orleans homeowners.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315002</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31319132</id>
	<title>Time to buy a bloom box</title>
	<author>MobyDisk</author>
	<datestamp>1267470300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I knew I should have bought a Bloom Box!  I'd be happily playing Assasin's Creed 2 while everyone else panics in terror!</p><p>&gt; DRM Error... unable to connect to server.</p><p>NOOOoooooooo!!!!!!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I knew I should have bought a Bloom Box !
I 'd be happily playing Assasin 's Creed 2 while everyone else panics in terror ! &gt; DRM Error... unable to connect to server.NOOOoooooooo ! ! ! ! ! ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I knew I should have bought a Bloom Box!
I'd be happily playing Assasin's Creed 2 while everyone else panics in terror!&gt; DRM Error... unable to connect to server.NOOOoooooooo!!!!!!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31322142</id>
	<title>Read the Summary People!</title>
	<author>BranMan</author>
	<datestamp>1267438500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Am I the only one that read the summary???  When we lose all our satellites, it says that A DAY LATER it may cause huge simultaneous blackouts by overloading the grid.  Well, guess what, when we lose the satellites we just - wait for it - are you ready? - shut down the grid.

Leave it off for a day, 2 days, however long it takes for the flare to subside.  Give people a little warning, everyone is ready for it, and we have minimal disruption.

What's the problem People?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Am I the only one that read the summary ? ? ?
When we lose all our satellites , it says that A DAY LATER it may cause huge simultaneous blackouts by overloading the grid .
Well , guess what , when we lose the satellites we just - wait for it - are you ready ?
- shut down the grid .
Leave it off for a day , 2 days , however long it takes for the flare to subside .
Give people a little warning , everyone is ready for it , and we have minimal disruption .
What 's the problem People ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Am I the only one that read the summary???
When we lose all our satellites, it says that A DAY LATER it may cause huge simultaneous blackouts by overloading the grid.
Well, guess what, when we lose the satellites we just - wait for it - are you ready?
- shut down the grid.
Leave it off for a day, 2 days, however long it takes for the flare to subside.
Give people a little warning, everyone is ready for it, and we have minimal disruption.
What's the problem People?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31317292</id>
	<title>Sounds Scary!!! Is this as bad as carbon dioxide?!</title>
	<author>Phizzle</author>
	<datestamp>1267463340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><b>How much extra money should I give up in taxes and how many more personal freedoms should I relinquish before my government will make me feel safe?!?!?!? </b></htmltext>
<tokenext>How much extra money should I give up in taxes and how many more personal freedoms should I relinquish before my government will make me feel safe ? ! ? ! ? !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much extra money should I give up in taxes and how many more personal freedoms should I relinquish before my government will make me feel safe?!?!?!
? </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315336</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267456320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; a few tens of thousands who chose to live below sea level</p><p>Your casting this as innocent vs willing is completely ignorant.  Why don't those, "um, 100 million people" whom you more sympathize with just "choose" to live off the grid?  Problem solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; a few tens of thousands who chose to live below sea levelYour casting this as innocent vs willing is completely ignorant .
Why do n't those , " um , 100 million people " whom you more sympathize with just " choose " to live off the grid ?
Problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; a few tens of thousands who chose to live below sea levelYour casting this as innocent vs willing is completely ignorant.
Why don't those, "um, 100 million people" whom you more sympathize with just "choose" to live off the grid?
Problem solved.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315002</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31318752</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>HeckRuler</author>
	<datestamp>1267468620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Then why the hell did they use the word "Katrina". It is a female name. It was assigned to a hurricane. That hurricane hit a city. There was flooding. People chose to blame the president of the nation in which this city resided for some reason. <br> <br>
I am failing to see the connection. The name "Katrina" is not a noun referring to a disaster. Of all the disasters humanity has faced, this is not a good one to draw parallels with solar flares. If you want an alternative, how about "solar radiation blackout". Cause that's the worry right? Losing electrical power? We have a term for that, USE IT. Stop making up new shit just to sound edgy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Then why the hell did they use the word " Katrina " .
It is a female name .
It was assigned to a hurricane .
That hurricane hit a city .
There was flooding .
People chose to blame the president of the nation in which this city resided for some reason .
I am failing to see the connection .
The name " Katrina " is not a noun referring to a disaster .
Of all the disasters humanity has faced , this is not a good one to draw parallels with solar flares .
If you want an alternative , how about " solar radiation blackout " .
Cause that 's the worry right ?
Losing electrical power ?
We have a term for that , USE IT .
Stop making up new shit just to sound edgy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then why the hell did they use the word "Katrina".
It is a female name.
It was assigned to a hurricane.
That hurricane hit a city.
There was flooding.
People chose to blame the president of the nation in which this city resided for some reason.
I am failing to see the connection.
The name "Katrina" is not a noun referring to a disaster.
Of all the disasters humanity has faced, this is not a good one to draw parallels with solar flares.
If you want an alternative, how about "solar radiation blackout".
Cause that's the worry right?
Losing electrical power?
We have a term for that, USE IT.
Stop making up new shit just to sound edgy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315018</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31317822</id>
	<title>Does it take them out</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1267465440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>permanently or just until the storm passes?</p><p>I remember when satellite news cast were just starting and sometime Sun activity would take them down, bit only for 30-60 seconds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>permanently or just until the storm passes ? I remember when satellite news cast were just starting and sometime Sun activity would take them down , bit only for 30-60 seconds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>permanently or just until the storm passes?I remember when satellite news cast were just starting and sometime Sun activity would take them down, bit only for 30-60 seconds.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316092</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>confused one</author>
	<datestamp>1267458960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While I agree they're blowing it all out of proportions, sensationalizing it you might say, I don't believe you understand the magnitude of the referenced geo-magnetic storms.  They were orders of magnitude worse than the storm that downed the power in Canada.  There will be widespread damage to substations as well as damage done to our satellite network, if such a significant event happens again.  And it will.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While I agree they 're blowing it all out of proportions , sensationalizing it you might say , I do n't believe you understand the magnitude of the referenced geo-magnetic storms .
They were orders of magnitude worse than the storm that downed the power in Canada .
There will be widespread damage to substations as well as damage done to our satellite network , if such a significant event happens again .
And it will .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I agree they're blowing it all out of proportions, sensationalizing it you might say, I don't believe you understand the magnitude of the referenced geo-magnetic storms.
They were orders of magnitude worse than the storm that downed the power in Canada.
There will be widespread damage to substations as well as damage done to our satellite network, if such a significant event happens again.
And it will.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316860</id>
	<title>Re:your false complacency s worse than false alarm</title>
	<author>BetterSense</author>
	<datestamp>1267461780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>&lt;i&gt;nobody is going to be rewinding transformers like macgyver. that's a serious buttload of skilled work, with equipment and supplies that is not easily at hand&lt;/i&gt;<br><br>Keep in mind also that the transformer-winding factories will themselves be out of power. I'm sure transformers aren't made in caves using elves and magical power. It's kind of a chicken-and-egg scenario but I imagine that making transformers also requires electricity. So whatever the transformer-production capacity is now, consider that the production capacity after a transformer-pwning solar storm would be much, much lower. Which means it take much, much longer to re-transformer our whole power grid than you might think at first.</htmltext>
<tokenext>nobody is going to be rewinding transformers like macgyver .
that 's a serious buttload of skilled work , with equipment and supplies that is not easily at handKeep in mind also that the transformer-winding factories will themselves be out of power .
I 'm sure transformers are n't made in caves using elves and magical power .
It 's kind of a chicken-and-egg scenario but I imagine that making transformers also requires electricity .
So whatever the transformer-production capacity is now , consider that the production capacity after a transformer-pwning solar storm would be much , much lower .
Which means it take much , much longer to re-transformer our whole power grid than you might think at first .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nobody is going to be rewinding transformers like macgyver.
that's a serious buttload of skilled work, with equipment and supplies that is not easily at handKeep in mind also that the transformer-winding factories will themselves be out of power.
I'm sure transformers aren't made in caves using elves and magical power.
It's kind of a chicken-and-egg scenario but I imagine that making transformers also requires electricity.
So whatever the transformer-production capacity is now, consider that the production capacity after a transformer-pwning solar storm would be much, much lower.
Which means it take much, much longer to re-transformer our whole power grid than you might think at first.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316346</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31319378</id>
	<title>Re:Could another country take advantage of USA?</title>
	<author>lotho brandybuck</author>
	<datestamp>1267471260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And do what?  Change a bunch of idiotic consumers who are propping up their economy into angry non-consumers with guns?</htmltext>
<tokenext>And do what ?
Change a bunch of idiotic consumers who are propping up their economy into angry non-consumers with guns ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And do what?
Change a bunch of idiotic consumers who are propping up their economy into angry non-consumers with guns?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31317830</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31314858</id>
	<title>Since when?</title>
	<author>peragrin</author>
	<datestamp>1267453740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since when did solar flares change tides and throw debries around to cause massive flooding, and random destruction.</p><p>If a major flare hit. Sure gps would fail but major diasters would be relativly limited. It would be more like the northeast blackout of 2003 as opposed to Katrina.  People stuck in elevators. Minor traffic accidents, maybe a ship or two run aground.</p><p>Also the areas affected would be dependant on the current tilt of the earth and which side is facing the sun as it hit. The other half would be mostly unaffected.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since when did solar flares change tides and throw debries around to cause massive flooding , and random destruction.If a major flare hit .
Sure gps would fail but major diasters would be relativly limited .
It would be more like the northeast blackout of 2003 as opposed to Katrina .
People stuck in elevators .
Minor traffic accidents , maybe a ship or two run aground.Also the areas affected would be dependant on the current tilt of the earth and which side is facing the sun as it hit .
The other half would be mostly unaffected .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since when did solar flares change tides and throw debries around to cause massive flooding, and random destruction.If a major flare hit.
Sure gps would fail but major diasters would be relativly limited.
It would be more like the northeast blackout of 2003 as opposed to Katrina.
People stuck in elevators.
Minor traffic accidents, maybe a ship or two run aground.Also the areas affected would be dependant on the current tilt of the earth and which side is facing the sun as it hit.
The other half would be mostly unaffected.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316904</id>
	<title>BUt how</title>
	<author>leuk\_he</author>
	<datestamp>1267461960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do i protect my hardware and CPU's?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do i protect my hardware and CPU 's ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do i protect my hardware and CPU's?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31317090</id>
	<title>Re:BUt how</title>
	<author>eleuthero</author>
	<datestamp>1267462620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>cover your house in 10 feet of dirt and a really large lead dental exam blanket?</htmltext>
<tokenext>cover your house in 10 feet of dirt and a really large lead dental exam blanket ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>cover your house in 10 feet of dirt and a really large lead dental exam blanket?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315044</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>ShadowRangerRIT</author>
	<datestamp>1267454820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>So if only a quarter of the planet is left powerless for weeks or months during the winter, this would somehow be less severe than a single city getting flooded?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So if only a quarter of the planet is left powerless for weeks or months during the winter , this would somehow be less severe than a single city getting flooded ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So if only a quarter of the planet is left powerless for weeks or months during the winter, this would somehow be less severe than a single city getting flooded?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31314858</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31321516</id>
	<title>Re:Um, no.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267436220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I have a whole day's notice before the really nasty bit gets here, couldn't I spend that day disconnecting my expensive, vital equipment from the long conductors? I understand that would cut power, but don't you think people would rather have one, planned day (albeit not with much notice, but enough that we won't have people stuck in elevators/etc.) without power rather an unplanned, country-wide outage that last months?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I have a whole day 's notice before the really nasty bit gets here , could n't I spend that day disconnecting my expensive , vital equipment from the long conductors ?
I understand that would cut power , but do n't you think people would rather have one , planned day ( albeit not with much notice , but enough that we wo n't have people stuck in elevators/etc .
) without power rather an unplanned , country-wide outage that last months ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I have a whole day's notice before the really nasty bit gets here, couldn't I spend that day disconnecting my expensive, vital equipment from the long conductors?
I understand that would cut power, but don't you think people would rather have one, planned day (albeit not with much notice, but enough that we won't have people stuck in elevators/etc.
) without power rather an unplanned, country-wide outage that last months?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315206</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31321970</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>BranMan</author>
	<datestamp>1267437720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You may hate them because they make money, but they got killed on Katrina, almost all lost significantly more than anticipated.</p></div><p>Well, it was a catastrophic event, by definition.  So, if the insurance companies got soaked, but not bankrupted, then I'd say it all worked as it should.  If the insurance companies run into something cataclysmic and then don't even bat an eye, then I'd say we were all paying them WAY too much.  I certainly won't lose a lot of sleep over them having 1 or 2 years with negative balance sheets.  To be a little callus, that's the business they went into - deal with it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You may hate them because they make money , but they got killed on Katrina , almost all lost significantly more than anticipated.Well , it was a catastrophic event , by definition .
So , if the insurance companies got soaked , but not bankrupted , then I 'd say it all worked as it should .
If the insurance companies run into something cataclysmic and then do n't even bat an eye , then I 'd say we were all paying them WAY too much .
I certainly wo n't lose a lot of sleep over them having 1 or 2 years with negative balance sheets .
To be a little callus , that 's the business they went into - deal with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You may hate them because they make money, but they got killed on Katrina, almost all lost significantly more than anticipated.Well, it was a catastrophic event, by definition.
So, if the insurance companies got soaked, but not bankrupted, then I'd say it all worked as it should.
If the insurance companies run into something cataclysmic and then don't even bat an eye, then I'd say we were all paying them WAY too much.
I certainly won't lose a lot of sleep over them having 1 or 2 years with negative balance sheets.
To be a little callus, that's the business they went into - deal with it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315884</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31318750</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267468620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If that happens during the winter, you're talking a LOT of people freezing to death.</p></div><p>That's so TERRIBLE, I wonder how the old folks did without electricity. I know, maybe we should burn things like...those logs of wood that are outside my house.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If that happens during the winter , you 're talking a LOT of people freezing to death.That 's so TERRIBLE , I wonder how the old folks did without electricity .
I know , maybe we should burn things like...those logs of wood that are outside my house .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If that happens during the winter, you're talking a LOT of people freezing to death.That's so TERRIBLE, I wonder how the old folks did without electricity.
I know, maybe we should burn things like...those logs of wood that are outside my house.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315002</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31320420</id>
	<title>Re:scifi novel "One Second After"</title>
	<author>CKW</author>
	<datestamp>1267475280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I really liked "Dies the Fire", by S.M. Stirling.  In it some of the constants of nature change - and even combustion is affected - no more electricity, gunpowder, explosives, or combustion engines, etc.  (Although I think they could perhaps make gunpowder out of former-explosives, but so far as I've read in the ensuing series they haven't hit on that idea yet)</p><p>A bit more survivalist and post-apocalyptic semi-fantasy in nature, but I suppose most such books are.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I really liked " Dies the Fire " , by S.M .
Stirling. In it some of the constants of nature change - and even combustion is affected - no more electricity , gunpowder , explosives , or combustion engines , etc .
( Although I think they could perhaps make gunpowder out of former-explosives , but so far as I 've read in the ensuing series they have n't hit on that idea yet ) A bit more survivalist and post-apocalyptic semi-fantasy in nature , but I suppose most such books are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I really liked "Dies the Fire", by S.M.
Stirling.  In it some of the constants of nature change - and even combustion is affected - no more electricity, gunpowder, explosives, or combustion engines, etc.
(Although I think they could perhaps make gunpowder out of former-explosives, but so far as I've read in the ensuing series they haven't hit on that idea yet)A bit more survivalist and post-apocalyptic semi-fantasy in nature, but I suppose most such books are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31316594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31314822</id>
	<title>A question</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267453440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How will this affect the polar bears?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How will this affect the polar bears ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How will this affect the polar bears?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31315018</id>
	<title>Re:Since when?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267454700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The "Katrina" metaphor is comparing the impact of the disasters on our society. A big solar storm could be much more widespread and damaging than previous blackouts, and end up killing quite a few people. Nobody's suggesting that it will literally cause floods and random physical destruction.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The " Katrina " metaphor is comparing the impact of the disasters on our society .
A big solar storm could be much more widespread and damaging than previous blackouts , and end up killing quite a few people .
Nobody 's suggesting that it will literally cause floods and random physical destruction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The "Katrina" metaphor is comparing the impact of the disasters on our society.
A big solar storm could be much more widespread and damaging than previous blackouts, and end up killing quite a few people.
Nobody's suggesting that it will literally cause floods and random physical destruction.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31314858</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_03_01_0117248.31317766</id>
	<title>What about turning the power off before hand...</title>
	<author>need4mospd</author>
	<datestamp>1267465200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is there any way that shutting down all the power plants for that day would help avoid the equipment frying?<p>
One day planned in advance without power is a disaster. BUT, one month without power is total chaos.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is there any way that shutting down all the power plants for that day would help avoid the equipment frying ?
One day planned in advance without power is a disaster .
BUT , one month without power is total chaos .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is there any way that shutting down all the power plants for that day would help avoid the equipment frying?
One day planned in advance without power is a disaster.
BUT, one month without power is total chaos.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_03_01_0117248_17</id>
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