<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_24_0331256</id>
	<title>DirectX 11 Coming To Browser Games</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1267001220000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>arcticstoat writes <i>"Forget <em>Farmville</em>, Flash puzzlers and 8-bit home computer emulators. The next generation of browser games <a href="http://www.thinq.co.uk/news/2010/2/23/directx-11-comes-to-browser-games/">will be able to take advantage of DirectX 11 effects</a>, not to mention multi-core processing and both Havok and PhysX physics effects. A new browser plug-in called WebVision will be available for Trinergy's new game engine, Vision Engine 8. This will enable game developers to port all the advanced effects from the game engine over to all the common browsers. Of course, any budding 3D-browser-game dev will face the problem that not every PC has a decent graphics card that can handle advanced graphics effects. Not only that, but limited bandwidth will also limit what effects a developer can realistically implement into a browser game. Nevertheless, this is an interesting development that could result in some tight 3D programming, as well as some much more interesting browser games."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>arcticstoat writes " Forget Farmville , Flash puzzlers and 8-bit home computer emulators .
The next generation of browser games will be able to take advantage of DirectX 11 effects , not to mention multi-core processing and both Havok and PhysX physics effects .
A new browser plug-in called WebVision will be available for Trinergy 's new game engine , Vision Engine 8 .
This will enable game developers to port all the advanced effects from the game engine over to all the common browsers .
Of course , any budding 3D-browser-game dev will face the problem that not every PC has a decent graphics card that can handle advanced graphics effects .
Not only that , but limited bandwidth will also limit what effects a developer can realistically implement into a browser game .
Nevertheless , this is an interesting development that could result in some tight 3D programming , as well as some much more interesting browser games .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>arcticstoat writes "Forget Farmville, Flash puzzlers and 8-bit home computer emulators.
The next generation of browser games will be able to take advantage of DirectX 11 effects, not to mention multi-core processing and both Havok and PhysX physics effects.
A new browser plug-in called WebVision will be available for Trinergy's new game engine, Vision Engine 8.
This will enable game developers to port all the advanced effects from the game engine over to all the common browsers.
Of course, any budding 3D-browser-game dev will face the problem that not every PC has a decent graphics card that can handle advanced graphics effects.
Not only that, but limited bandwidth will also limit what effects a developer can realistically implement into a browser game.
Nevertheless, this is an interesting development that could result in some tight 3D programming, as well as some much more interesting browser games.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31267744</id>
	<title>Re:Spyware on my GPU</title>
	<author>Sir\_Lewk</author>
	<datestamp>1265124240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If your system's main security consideration is <i>"Now how would a hacker abuse that?"</i>, then you should expect only the worst.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If your system 's main security consideration is " Now how would a hacker abuse that ?
" , then you should expect only the worst .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your system's main security consideration is "Now how would a hacker abuse that?
", then you should expect only the worst.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257126</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257376</id>
	<title>Re:Spyware on my GPU</title>
	<author>Spy Hunter</author>
	<datestamp>1265110020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's true that theoretically shaders can't do much, but shader compilers are imperfect, and since GPUs have no hardware memory protection, compiler or driver bugs could easily result in read/write access to arbitrary video memory, allowing a shader to directly read/write the contents of your screen, or corrupt important data structures to exploit the kernel-mode part of the video driver and gain complete system access.</p><p>Video drivers are complex and notoriously buggy gobs of code which run partially in kernel mode and were designed for speed, not security.  Allowing any random webpage to make DirectX/OpenGL calls directly (even without shaders) is a huge security concern.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's true that theoretically shaders ca n't do much , but shader compilers are imperfect , and since GPUs have no hardware memory protection , compiler or driver bugs could easily result in read/write access to arbitrary video memory , allowing a shader to directly read/write the contents of your screen , or corrupt important data structures to exploit the kernel-mode part of the video driver and gain complete system access.Video drivers are complex and notoriously buggy gobs of code which run partially in kernel mode and were designed for speed , not security .
Allowing any random webpage to make DirectX/OpenGL calls directly ( even without shaders ) is a huge security concern .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's true that theoretically shaders can't do much, but shader compilers are imperfect, and since GPUs have no hardware memory protection, compiler or driver bugs could easily result in read/write access to arbitrary video memory, allowing a shader to directly read/write the contents of your screen, or corrupt important data structures to exploit the kernel-mode part of the video driver and gain complete system access.Video drivers are complex and notoriously buggy gobs of code which run partially in kernel mode and were designed for speed, not security.
Allowing any random webpage to make DirectX/OpenGL calls directly (even without shaders) is a huge security concern.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257126</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256904</id>
	<title>Another pointless plugin?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265104320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why bother when we have <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL" title="wikipedia.org">WebGL</a> [wikipedia.org] (the 3D canvas API) that doesn't require any plugins at all?</p><p>Really, the whole browser plugin idea is a grand, failed experiment. Instead of a fecund atmosphere of competing web extensions, the plugin mechanism has just resulted in one or two players achieving dominance and vendor lock-in.</p><p>Browsers themselves implementing experimental, then standardized functionality is a much more viable approach. It's given us all the real improvements to the web to date.</p><p>How long will it be until we can kill the plugin mechanism entirely?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why bother when we have WebGL [ wikipedia.org ] ( the 3D canvas API ) that does n't require any plugins at all ? Really , the whole browser plugin idea is a grand , failed experiment .
Instead of a fecund atmosphere of competing web extensions , the plugin mechanism has just resulted in one or two players achieving dominance and vendor lock-in.Browsers themselves implementing experimental , then standardized functionality is a much more viable approach .
It 's given us all the real improvements to the web to date.How long will it be until we can kill the plugin mechanism entirely ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why bother when we have WebGL [wikipedia.org] (the 3D canvas API) that doesn't require any plugins at all?Really, the whole browser plugin idea is a grand, failed experiment.
Instead of a fecund atmosphere of competing web extensions, the plugin mechanism has just resulted in one or two players achieving dominance and vendor lock-in.Browsers themselves implementing experimental, then standardized functionality is a much more viable approach.
It's given us all the real improvements to the web to date.How long will it be until we can kill the plugin mechanism entirely?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31259020</id>
	<title>You can already</title>
	<author>wisnoskij</author>
	<datestamp>1265124720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can already use OpenGL if you make it in Java.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can already use OpenGL if you make it in Java .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can already use OpenGL if you make it in Java.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257184</id>
	<title>OpenGL</title>
	<author>Lord Lode</author>
	<datestamp>1265107800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What made someone who made a browser plugin for the web even THINK about DirectX 11? How is that possible? How can someone create something for the web and choose a Windows-only technology instead of OpenGL?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What made someone who made a browser plugin for the web even THINK about DirectX 11 ?
How is that possible ?
How can someone create something for the web and choose a Windows-only technology instead of OpenGL ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What made someone who made a browser plugin for the web even THINK about DirectX 11?
How is that possible?
How can someone create something for the web and choose a Windows-only technology instead of OpenGL?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31261792</id>
	<title>FAIL + FUD = /. article?</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1265136660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This isn&rsquo;t anything new. You can do anything with a &ldquo;browser&rdquo;, as long as you have the right plug-in.<br>Which of course nobody will ever have installed, unless some big player drives people to it.</p><p>As seen in the countless 3D plugins that existed since at least 1996! Hell, I was playing accelerated 3D browser games, before 3D acceleration cards hit the mainstream market at all! (And I ever played some king of SecondLife, called &ldquo;Alpha World(s)&rdquo;. I even had built a house in there,)</p><p>I will wait for WebGL. (And WebAL? Please? Because even my mobile phone can do EAX 4 HD like effects now.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This isn    t anything new .
You can do anything with a    browser    , as long as you have the right plug-in.Which of course nobody will ever have installed , unless some big player drives people to it.As seen in the countless 3D plugins that existed since at least 1996 !
Hell , I was playing accelerated 3D browser games , before 3D acceleration cards hit the mainstream market at all !
( And I ever played some king of SecondLife , called    Alpha World ( s )    .
I even had built a house in there , ) I will wait for WebGL .
( And WebAL ?
Please ? Because even my mobile phone can do EAX 4 HD like effects now .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn’t anything new.
You can do anything with a “browser”, as long as you have the right plug-in.Which of course nobody will ever have installed, unless some big player drives people to it.As seen in the countless 3D plugins that existed since at least 1996!
Hell, I was playing accelerated 3D browser games, before 3D acceleration cards hit the mainstream market at all!
(And I ever played some king of SecondLife, called “Alpha World(s)”.
I even had built a house in there,)I will wait for WebGL.
(And WebAL?
Please? Because even my mobile phone can do EAX 4 HD like effects now.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31261322</id>
	<title>Re:Another pointless plugin?</title>
	<author>MasTRE</author>
	<datestamp>1265134860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Really, the whole browser plugin idea is a grand, failed experiment.</p></div><p>So, for example, Flash as a browser plugin is a failed experiment? I think not. There's reality and then there's idealism. Nothing wrong with the latter, but the former is pretty much unaffected by it. If you believe in it strongly enough, you can attempt to change the reality. Build something and see if enough others find it worthwhile. Kind of like what these guys are trying to do with WebVision. Even if the project you reference was hugely successful, there's nothing wrong with competition.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Really , the whole browser plugin idea is a grand , failed experiment.So , for example , Flash as a browser plugin is a failed experiment ?
I think not .
There 's reality and then there 's idealism .
Nothing wrong with the latter , but the former is pretty much unaffected by it .
If you believe in it strongly enough , you can attempt to change the reality .
Build something and see if enough others find it worthwhile .
Kind of like what these guys are trying to do with WebVision .
Even if the project you reference was hugely successful , there 's nothing wrong with competition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really, the whole browser plugin idea is a grand, failed experiment.So, for example, Flash as a browser plugin is a failed experiment?
I think not.
There's reality and then there's idealism.
Nothing wrong with the latter, but the former is pretty much unaffected by it.
If you believe in it strongly enough, you can attempt to change the reality.
Build something and see if enough others find it worthwhile.
Kind of like what these guys are trying to do with WebVision.
Even if the project you reference was hugely successful, there's nothing wrong with competition.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31260098</id>
	<title>Re:Another pointless plugin?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265129700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>website-developer has decided that you need SpecialPlugin version 7.0.321.9 to seee this page.</p></div><p>I am imagining your emphasis on the word <i>seee</i>, to indicate that you're not merely seeing the page, but rather seeing into the depths of its HTML-rich soul.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>website-developer has decided that you need SpecialPlugin version 7.0.321.9 to seee this page.I am imagining your emphasis on the word seee , to indicate that you 're not merely seeing the page , but rather seeing into the depths of its HTML-rich soul .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>website-developer has decided that you need SpecialPlugin version 7.0.321.9 to seee this page.I am imagining your emphasis on the word seee, to indicate that you're not merely seeing the page, but rather seeing into the depths of its HTML-rich soul.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31259128</id>
	<title>Unity3d already has amazing browser support</title>
	<author>aegis3d</author>
	<datestamp>1265125320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Check out this demo of unity3d:

<a href="http://unity3d.com/gallery/live-demos/tropical-paradise" title="unity3d.com" rel="nofollow">http://unity3d.com/gallery/live-demos/tropical-paradise</a> [unity3d.com]

3d hardware accelerated gorgeous tropical island in your browser!

The first time i saw it, i could only say: "no way this already exists"</htmltext>
<tokenext>Check out this demo of unity3d : http : //unity3d.com/gallery/live-demos/tropical-paradise [ unity3d.com ] 3d hardware accelerated gorgeous tropical island in your browser !
The first time i saw it , i could only say : " no way this already exists "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Check out this demo of unity3d:

http://unity3d.com/gallery/live-demos/tropical-paradise [unity3d.com]

3d hardware accelerated gorgeous tropical island in your browser!
The first time i saw it, i could only say: "no way this already exists"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257244</id>
	<title>3D does not necessarily mean better games</title>
	<author>femtofarads</author>
	<datestamp>1265108520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The poster either doesn't know jack about the gaming ecosystem or is an employee of the so called plugin developing company. Its not 2D v/s 3D, its good game v/s lousy game. Its all about the gameplay! Unfortunately, a lot of people naively associate 3D with better gaming experience. See what happened to Sony who tried to go for killer graphics capability on the PS3 v/s Nintendo who didn't care much for the latest greatest graphics capability, but instead went for the user experience.

In addition, the so called "Flash puzzlers" have a fast turn around development cycle, cost way less than 3D game development, are ultra-lite, and therefore have much better economic viability. (Even if your game flops, you don't end up losing a LOT).

In short, NO, nobody is going to forget about the Flash puzzlers as the poster proclaims.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The poster either does n't know jack about the gaming ecosystem or is an employee of the so called plugin developing company .
Its not 2D v/s 3D , its good game v/s lousy game .
Its all about the gameplay !
Unfortunately , a lot of people naively associate 3D with better gaming experience .
See what happened to Sony who tried to go for killer graphics capability on the PS3 v/s Nintendo who did n't care much for the latest greatest graphics capability , but instead went for the user experience .
In addition , the so called " Flash puzzlers " have a fast turn around development cycle , cost way less than 3D game development , are ultra-lite , and therefore have much better economic viability .
( Even if your game flops , you do n't end up losing a LOT ) .
In short , NO , nobody is going to forget about the Flash puzzlers as the poster proclaims .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The poster either doesn't know jack about the gaming ecosystem or is an employee of the so called plugin developing company.
Its not 2D v/s 3D, its good game v/s lousy game.
Its all about the gameplay!
Unfortunately, a lot of people naively associate 3D with better gaming experience.
See what happened to Sony who tried to go for killer graphics capability on the PS3 v/s Nintendo who didn't care much for the latest greatest graphics capability, but instead went for the user experience.
In addition, the so called "Flash puzzlers" have a fast turn around development cycle, cost way less than 3D game development, are ultra-lite, and therefore have much better economic viability.
(Even if your game flops, you don't end up losing a LOT).
In short, NO, nobody is going to forget about the Flash puzzlers as the poster proclaims.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31262778</id>
	<title>OpenGL + Java</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265140740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whatever happened to those efforts? I remember playing with OpenGL for Java on Mac OS9. Java was a "free" way to get into programming at the time. I remember putting together an mp3 player before iTunes existed, thanks to Quicktime4Java. It had a visualizer plugin api...one of the plugins I wrote used OpenGL4Java but most were modified applets I found online (fireworks, etc).</p><p>It always took forever for the Java apps/applets to load but once they were up and running it all seemed fast enough.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whatever happened to those efforts ?
I remember playing with OpenGL for Java on Mac OS9 .
Java was a " free " way to get into programming at the time .
I remember putting together an mp3 player before iTunes existed , thanks to Quicktime4Java .
It had a visualizer plugin api...one of the plugins I wrote used OpenGL4Java but most were modified applets I found online ( fireworks , etc ) .It always took forever for the Java apps/applets to load but once they were up and running it all seemed fast enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whatever happened to those efforts?
I remember playing with OpenGL for Java on Mac OS9.
Java was a "free" way to get into programming at the time.
I remember putting together an mp3 player before iTunes existed, thanks to Quicktime4Java.
It had a visualizer plugin api...one of the plugins I wrote used OpenGL4Java but most were modified applets I found online (fireworks, etc).It always took forever for the Java apps/applets to load but once they were up and running it all seemed fast enough.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31260358</id>
	<title>Re:Slashvertisment?</title>
	<author>the\_womble</author>
	<datestamp>1265130900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That assumes that Windows users will actually install this plugin.</p><p>Will there be a Mac version?</p><p>Will games that actually make use of this be small enough to reload every times your browser cache gets cleared?</p><p>Very, very few browser plugins have become common.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That assumes that Windows users will actually install this plugin.Will there be a Mac version ? Will games that actually make use of this be small enough to reload every times your browser cache gets cleared ? Very , very few browser plugins have become common .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That assumes that Windows users will actually install this plugin.Will there be a Mac version?Will games that actually make use of this be small enough to reload every times your browser cache gets cleared?Very, very few browser plugins have become common.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257052</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257884</id>
	<title>Re:OpenGL</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1265116080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It worked for WildTangent... which turned out to be spyware. They interfaced to Direct3D as well. They were windows-only as well. A lot of people paid them for their technology and used it to make all kinds of crappy 3d games in a browser. When that turned out to be profitless people stopped and as far as I know it's been relegated to making crapware games packaged by Gateway and others with new PC installs... just one more piece of spyware in their crapflood. There's no particular reason to believe that this will turn out any different.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It worked for WildTangent... which turned out to be spyware .
They interfaced to Direct3D as well .
They were windows-only as well .
A lot of people paid them for their technology and used it to make all kinds of crappy 3d games in a browser .
When that turned out to be profitless people stopped and as far as I know it 's been relegated to making crapware games packaged by Gateway and others with new PC installs... just one more piece of spyware in their crapflood .
There 's no particular reason to believe that this will turn out any different .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It worked for WildTangent... which turned out to be spyware.
They interfaced to Direct3D as well.
They were windows-only as well.
A lot of people paid them for their technology and used it to make all kinds of crappy 3d games in a browser.
When that turned out to be profitless people stopped and as far as I know it's been relegated to making crapware games packaged by Gateway and others with new PC installs... just one more piece of spyware in their crapflood.
There's no particular reason to believe that this will turn out any different.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257184</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257052</id>
	<title>Re:Slashvertisment?</title>
	<author>JackieBrown</author>
	<datestamp>1265106060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is what I was thinking as well.</p><p>It will be like the "old" days before firefox where site after site asked you to upgrade to IE 6.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is what I was thinking as well.It will be like the " old " days before firefox where site after site asked you to upgrade to IE 6 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is what I was thinking as well.It will be like the "old" days before firefox where site after site asked you to upgrade to IE 6.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256894</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31258256</id>
	<title>Flash vs. DX?</title>
	<author>Ilgaz</author>
	<datestamp>1265120040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Flash basically runs everywhere where it is allowed (not iphone) and feasible to code for, it is just you and others who are so cool to disable it.</p><p>DirectX on the other hand, is chosen to run on Windows by its vendor itself. Not just Windows, in case of DirectX 11, it will only run on Windows 7.</p><p>There is a technology/plugin which runs on both Windows and Mac (which means 98\% of coverage) and can use both OpenGL and DirectX, has professional application support. Shockwave of course. Is Adobe pushing it enough? Do they release a light, linux version? Of course they are Adobe and they don't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Flash basically runs everywhere where it is allowed ( not iphone ) and feasible to code for , it is just you and others who are so cool to disable it.DirectX on the other hand , is chosen to run on Windows by its vendor itself .
Not just Windows , in case of DirectX 11 , it will only run on Windows 7.There is a technology/plugin which runs on both Windows and Mac ( which means 98 \ % of coverage ) and can use both OpenGL and DirectX , has professional application support .
Shockwave of course .
Is Adobe pushing it enough ?
Do they release a light , linux version ?
Of course they are Adobe and they do n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Flash basically runs everywhere where it is allowed (not iphone) and feasible to code for, it is just you and others who are so cool to disable it.DirectX on the other hand, is chosen to run on Windows by its vendor itself.
Not just Windows, in case of DirectX 11, it will only run on Windows 7.There is a technology/plugin which runs on both Windows and Mac (which means 98\% of coverage) and can use both OpenGL and DirectX, has professional application support.
Shockwave of course.
Is Adobe pushing it enough?
Do they release a light, linux version?
Of course they are Adobe and they don't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257486</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31317918</id>
	<title>Re:Bandwidth is a killer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267465740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>lol standardized textures? did you really pitch that? yes lets take the art of games, thatd give us what... oh the kinds of games linux distros ship with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>lol standardized textures ?
did you really pitch that ?
yes lets take the art of games , thatd give us what... oh the kinds of games linux distros ship with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>lol standardized textures?
did you really pitch that?
yes lets take the art of games, thatd give us what... oh the kinds of games linux distros ship with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257028</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256970</id>
	<title>Flash Redux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265105040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No one wants Flash and I suspect no one will want yet another browser plugin. WebGL is a much nicer option:</p><p><a href="http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/09/webgl-for-firefox/" title="mozilla.org" rel="nofollow">http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/09/webgl-for-firefox/</a> [mozilla.org]<br><a href="http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/09/three-more-webgl-demos/" title="mozilla.org" rel="nofollow">http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/09/three-more-webgl-demos/</a> [mozilla.org]<br><a href="http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/10/webgl-in-the-wild/" title="mozilla.org" rel="nofollow">http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/10/webgl-in-the-wild/</a> [mozilla.org]<br><a href="http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/12/webgl-goes-mobile/" title="mozilla.org" rel="nofollow">http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/12/webgl-goes-mobile/</a> [mozilla.org]<br><a href="http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/12/webgl-draft-released-today/" title="mozilla.org" rel="nofollow">http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/12/webgl-draft-released-today/</a> [mozilla.org]</p><p>And here's WebGL combined with Theora video to create a 360 degree interactive video:</p><p><a href="http://bjartr.blogspot.com/2010/01/long-delayed-webglu-update-some-360.html" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://bjartr.blogspot.com/2010/01/long-delayed-webglu-update-some-360.html</a> [blogspot.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No one wants Flash and I suspect no one will want yet another browser plugin .
WebGL is a much nicer option : http : //hacks.mozilla.org/2009/09/webgl-for-firefox/ [ mozilla.org ] http : //hacks.mozilla.org/2009/09/three-more-webgl-demos/ [ mozilla.org ] http : //hacks.mozilla.org/2009/10/webgl-in-the-wild/ [ mozilla.org ] http : //hacks.mozilla.org/2009/12/webgl-goes-mobile/ [ mozilla.org ] http : //hacks.mozilla.org/2009/12/webgl-draft-released-today/ [ mozilla.org ] And here 's WebGL combined with Theora video to create a 360 degree interactive video : http : //bjartr.blogspot.com/2010/01/long-delayed-webglu-update-some-360.html [ blogspot.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No one wants Flash and I suspect no one will want yet another browser plugin.
WebGL is a much nicer option:http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/09/webgl-for-firefox/ [mozilla.org]http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/09/three-more-webgl-demos/ [mozilla.org]http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/10/webgl-in-the-wild/ [mozilla.org]http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/12/webgl-goes-mobile/ [mozilla.org]http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/12/webgl-draft-released-today/ [mozilla.org]And here's WebGL combined with Theora video to create a 360 degree interactive video:http://bjartr.blogspot.com/2010/01/long-delayed-webglu-update-some-360.html [blogspot.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31265470</id>
	<title>Re:Another pointless plugin?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265108940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>well with directx browsers can now crash your whole PC with ease!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>well with directx browsers can now crash your whole PC with ease !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>well with directx browsers can now crash your whole PC with ease!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257118</id>
	<title>A plugin ? yack.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265106900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why would I want to install another plugin with security holes etc ?<br>Will it work with Safari on Mac OS ? iPhone OS ? How about LKinux and Firefox ?</p><p>Use HTML 5 instead of creating a new flash.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would I want to install another plugin with security holes etc ? Will it work with Safari on Mac OS ?
iPhone OS ?
How about LKinux and Firefox ? Use HTML 5 instead of creating a new flash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why would I want to install another plugin with security holes etc ?Will it work with Safari on Mac OS ?
iPhone OS ?
How about LKinux and Firefox ?Use HTML 5 instead of creating a new flash.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257440</id>
	<title>Far from the first ones to do this.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265110680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Such 3D plugins have existed for ages. There was Virtools, now Unity... nothing new here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Such 3D plugins have existed for ages .
There was Virtools , now Unity... nothing new here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Such 3D plugins have existed for ages.
There was Virtools, now Unity... nothing new here.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31258222</id>
	<title>Re:OpenGL</title>
	<author>JasterBobaMereel</author>
	<datestamp>1265119740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Flash exists because people want to use it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... playing a video before flash was a nightmare,  with flash installed it is simple</p><p>Now we (finally) have video in the browser in HTML5 maybe flash will finally die<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... rather than blocking it for all but the few video site we want to use, we can just uninstall it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>Since this is the newest DirectX it will only work in later versions of Windows, only work in IE currently<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. and be a huge security hole<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....all this to run a game in a browser<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>Why not<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..... download the game and run it natively!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Flash exists because people want to use it .... playing a video before flash was a nightmare , with flash installed it is simpleNow we ( finally ) have video in the browser in HTML5 maybe flash will finally die .... rather than blocking it for all but the few video site we want to use , we can just uninstall it ...Since this is the newest DirectX it will only work in later versions of Windows , only work in IE currently .. and be a huge security hole ....all this to run a game in a browser ...Why not ..... download the game and run it natively !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Flash exists because people want to use it .... playing a video before flash was a nightmare,  with flash installed it is simpleNow we (finally) have video in the browser in HTML5 maybe flash will finally die .... rather than blocking it for all but the few video site we want to use, we can just uninstall it ...Since this is the newest DirectX it will only work in later versions of Windows, only work in IE currently .. and be a huge security hole ....all this to run a game in a browser ...Why not ..... download the game and run it natively!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257486</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257080</id>
	<title>Re:Another pointless plugin?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265106420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For some reason we Anonymous Cowards don't get mod points, otherwise Id mod you up even further.</p><p>Having tried X3D and O3D and peeked at Web GL. I just want something that works everywhere, and I think Web GL is the best way to get there.<br>X3D is plug-in hell, with different plug-ins supporting different sub sets of the standard. O3D still (last I tried) fails on common  graphics cards.</p><p>That being said, I wouldn't complain if someone implemented a Web GL plugin for IE.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For some reason we Anonymous Cowards do n't get mod points , otherwise Id mod you up even further.Having tried X3D and O3D and peeked at Web GL .
I just want something that works everywhere , and I think Web GL is the best way to get there.X3D is plug-in hell , with different plug-ins supporting different sub sets of the standard .
O3D still ( last I tried ) fails on common graphics cards.That being said , I would n't complain if someone implemented a Web GL plugin for IE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For some reason we Anonymous Cowards don't get mod points, otherwise Id mod you up even further.Having tried X3D and O3D and peeked at Web GL.
I just want something that works everywhere, and I think Web GL is the best way to get there.X3D is plug-in hell, with different plug-ins supporting different sub sets of the standard.
O3D still (last I tried) fails on common  graphics cards.That being said, I wouldn't complain if someone implemented a Web GL plugin for IE.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31258554</id>
	<title>Re:Another pointless plugin?</title>
	<author>binarylarry</author>
	<datestamp>1265122320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With the latest version of Java (u18), the browser freeze has been eliminated (as well as a vm crash taking out your whole browser).</p><p>Snoracle have put a ton of effort into making Java plugins more usable.... finally.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With the latest version of Java ( u18 ) , the browser freeze has been eliminated ( as well as a vm crash taking out your whole browser ) .Snoracle have put a ton of effort into making Java plugins more usable.... finally .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With the latest version of Java (u18), the browser freeze has been eliminated (as well as a vm crash taking out your whole browser).Snoracle have put a ton of effort into making Java plugins more usable.... finally.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257486</id>
	<title>Re:OpenGL</title>
	<author>Joce640k</author>
	<datestamp>1265111340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How could anybody possibly think of using Flash?? It doesn't run everywhere!</p><p>Oh wait, the web is *full* of flash pages - we even have extensions to block it because we're sick to the teeth of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How could anybody possibly think of using Flash ? ?
It does n't run everywhere ! Oh wait , the web is * full * of flash pages - we even have extensions to block it because we 're sick to the teeth of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How could anybody possibly think of using Flash??
It doesn't run everywhere!Oh wait, the web is *full* of flash pages - we even have extensions to block it because we're sick to the teeth of it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257184</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256894</id>
	<title>Slashvertisment?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265104140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Will it work on Linux?</p><p>I'm pretty sure there's been 3D plugins before. One from Adobe springs to mind - it even had Havok physics engine....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Will it work on Linux ? I 'm pretty sure there 's been 3D plugins before .
One from Adobe springs to mind - it even had Havok physics engine... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Will it work on Linux?I'm pretty sure there's been 3D plugins before.
One from Adobe springs to mind - it even had Havok physics engine....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31258590</id>
	<title>Actually, the browser idea is a grand fail.</title>
	<author>master\_p</author>
	<datestamp>1265122500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The idea of a browser is a grand, failed experiment, not only the plugins. Slowly but steadily the browser is turned into a software distribution platform, which is the thing that should have existed first. The document browser is just one application of the software distribution platform.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The idea of a browser is a grand , failed experiment , not only the plugins .
Slowly but steadily the browser is turned into a software distribution platform , which is the thing that should have existed first .
The document browser is just one application of the software distribution platform .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The idea of a browser is a grand, failed experiment, not only the plugins.
Slowly but steadily the browser is turned into a software distribution platform, which is the thing that should have existed first.
The document browser is just one application of the software distribution platform.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256950</id>
	<title>Linux support?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265104860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real advantage of the Web to games is its cross-platform support. Technology that won't work on OSX, Linux, iPhone, Android, Maemo, and the majority of other emerging devices is just wasted effort.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real advantage of the Web to games is its cross-platform support .
Technology that wo n't work on OSX , Linux , iPhone , Android , Maemo , and the majority of other emerging devices is just wasted effort .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real advantage of the Web to games is its cross-platform support.
Technology that won't work on OSX, Linux, iPhone, Android, Maemo, and the majority of other emerging devices is just wasted effort.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257242</id>
	<title>Re:Bandwidth is a killer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265108460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Procedural textures are vastly smaller but are rather labour intensive to create</p></div><p>Hey, you never know, it could re-kickstart the "procedural algorithm compiler" thing again, the ultimate goal of compression.<br>I remember seeing one a few years back, wish i remembered the name of it.  All i know is it just crashed when i tried opening an image...<br>But i doubt this will happen anyway, it would need to be tested in trillions of use cases to make sure it doesn't break.<br>And internet connections would probably be decent enough by the time it was actually usable...</p><p>What will probably happen is LocalStorage is extended upon so that games (and applications) are allowed to download larger chunks of files to client at once.<br>This will be a user prompt, "This Application requires X MBs of space, Okay, Cancel".  (and the usual "download speeds, blah blah 3 million years on 56k")<br>Currently, the spec only mentions a prompt if the storage is low.  (which is set at 5MBs at the moment)</p><p><a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/webstorage/#disk-space" title="w3.org" rel="nofollow">HTML5 Webstorage</a> [w3.org]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Procedural textures are vastly smaller but are rather labour intensive to createHey , you never know , it could re-kickstart the " procedural algorithm compiler " thing again , the ultimate goal of compression.I remember seeing one a few years back , wish i remembered the name of it .
All i know is it just crashed when i tried opening an image...But i doubt this will happen anyway , it would need to be tested in trillions of use cases to make sure it does n't break.And internet connections would probably be decent enough by the time it was actually usable...What will probably happen is LocalStorage is extended upon so that games ( and applications ) are allowed to download larger chunks of files to client at once.This will be a user prompt , " This Application requires X MBs of space , Okay , Cancel " .
( and the usual " download speeds , blah blah 3 million years on 56k " ) Currently , the spec only mentions a prompt if the storage is low .
( which is set at 5MBs at the moment ) HTML5 Webstorage [ w3.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Procedural textures are vastly smaller but are rather labour intensive to createHey, you never know, it could re-kickstart the "procedural algorithm compiler" thing again, the ultimate goal of compression.I remember seeing one a few years back, wish i remembered the name of it.
All i know is it just crashed when i tried opening an image...But i doubt this will happen anyway, it would need to be tested in trillions of use cases to make sure it doesn't break.And internet connections would probably be decent enough by the time it was actually usable...What will probably happen is LocalStorage is extended upon so that games (and applications) are allowed to download larger chunks of files to client at once.This will be a user prompt, "This Application requires X MBs of space, Okay, Cancel".
(and the usual "download speeds, blah blah 3 million years on 56k")Currently, the spec only mentions a prompt if the storage is low.
(which is set at 5MBs at the moment)HTML5 Webstorage [w3.org]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31259748</id>
	<title>What about Unity?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265128200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The 'next generation' is already here. I'm one of a growing number of game developers who work in Unity3D. It's a game engine that allows you to work on either Mac or PC, and can build it's applications for Mac, PC, browser, iPhone, and Wii. You can do shader programming in Cg, so I assume that the engine will keep up with the latest DirectX and OGL releases.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The 'next generation ' is already here .
I 'm one of a growing number of game developers who work in Unity3D .
It 's a game engine that allows you to work on either Mac or PC , and can build it 's applications for Mac , PC , browser , iPhone , and Wii .
You can do shader programming in Cg , so I assume that the engine will keep up with the latest DirectX and OGL releases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The 'next generation' is already here.
I'm one of a growing number of game developers who work in Unity3D.
It's a game engine that allows you to work on either Mac or PC, and can build it's applications for Mac, PC, browser, iPhone, and Wii.
You can do shader programming in Cg, so I assume that the engine will keep up with the latest DirectX and OGL releases.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31262118</id>
	<title>Re:Not all browser games are ugly and slow.</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1265137860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://raptorsafari.com/" title="raptorsafari.com">http://raptorsafari.com/</a> [raptorsafari.com]<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-Road\_Velociraptor\_Safari" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-Road\_Velociraptor\_Safari</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>Raptor Safari!!!</p><p>It doesn't look like a current generation game, but it's fun as hell. I'm not sure what 3D plug-in it uses.</p><p>Ah crap, it looks like they moved the online version to Facebook... bah.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //raptorsafari.com/ [ raptorsafari.com ] http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-Road \ _Velociraptor \ _Safari [ wikipedia.org ] Raptor Safari ! !
! It does n't look like a current generation game , but it 's fun as hell .
I 'm not sure what 3D plug-in it uses.Ah crap , it looks like they moved the online version to Facebook... bah .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://raptorsafari.com/ [raptorsafari.com]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-Road\_Velociraptor\_Safari [wikipedia.org]Raptor Safari!!
!It doesn't look like a current generation game, but it's fun as hell.
I'm not sure what 3D plug-in it uses.Ah crap, it looks like they moved the online version to Facebook... bah.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257022</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31259958</id>
	<title>Re:Slashvertisment?</title>
	<author>vishbar</author>
	<datestamp>1265129160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Does anyone remember Chrome? No, not Google's...<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft\_Chrome" title="wikipedia.org">Microsoft's</a> [wikipedia.org]. What's old is new again!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does anyone remember Chrome ?
No , not Google 's...Microsoft 's [ wikipedia.org ] .
What 's old is new again !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does anyone remember Chrome?
No, not Google's...Microsoft's [wikipedia.org].
What's old is new again!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256894</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31261912</id>
	<title>Re:Bandwidth is a killer</title>
	<author>LUH 3418</author>
	<datestamp>1265137020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>&gt;&gt; 3D graphics is bandwidth intensive, especially for textures.
<br> <br>
Well, fortunately, bandwidth is increasing, slowly, over time. It's apparently pretty easy to get a 100Mbps connection in Japan now. Even downloading 100MBs of textures at that speed wouldn't be so bad. In the meantime, textures can be compressed for download. Quake 3 used jpeg files for its textures. That can easily give you a compression ratio of 10:1.
<br> <br>
&gt;&gt; 3D accelerated postage stamps just won't be that compelling.
<br> <br>
Look at the browser games people are playing. My girlfriend keeps getting addicted to them. None of them are really that sophisticated, looks wise. If someone can just manage to get some 3D RPG game online, even if it looks like a 10 year old game, people WILL play it, *alot*.
<br> <br>
&gt;&gt; Procedural textures are vastly smaller but are rather labour intensive to create. While this is a nice concept it won't be replacing downloaded 3D content anytime soon.
<br> <br>
It's my opinion that procedural content is "The Future (TM)". If you give people enough motivation to use it, they just might. Web-based games might be a good reason to develop the technology further, because it makes even more sense in that context.
<br> <br>
&gt;&gt; I have enough trouble convincing people to wait for a 2MB Java applet that's downloaded once and cached with WebStart.
<br> <br>
In an earlier post, someone was talking about a web-based (WebGL) port of Quake. They said the game fetched the textures after the level was loaded, while the user was playing. You can imagine something like that, if properly implemented, mitigating the problem. Textures only need to be loaded when you are about to see them, and they only need to be loaded in full quality when you can see them up close.</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; 3D graphics is bandwidth intensive , especially for textures .
Well , fortunately , bandwidth is increasing , slowly , over time .
It 's apparently pretty easy to get a 100Mbps connection in Japan now .
Even downloading 100MBs of textures at that speed would n't be so bad .
In the meantime , textures can be compressed for download .
Quake 3 used jpeg files for its textures .
That can easily give you a compression ratio of 10 : 1 .
&gt; &gt; 3D accelerated postage stamps just wo n't be that compelling .
Look at the browser games people are playing .
My girlfriend keeps getting addicted to them .
None of them are really that sophisticated , looks wise .
If someone can just manage to get some 3D RPG game online , even if it looks like a 10 year old game , people WILL play it , * alot * .
&gt; &gt; Procedural textures are vastly smaller but are rather labour intensive to create .
While this is a nice concept it wo n't be replacing downloaded 3D content anytime soon .
It 's my opinion that procedural content is " The Future ( TM ) " .
If you give people enough motivation to use it , they just might .
Web-based games might be a good reason to develop the technology further , because it makes even more sense in that context .
&gt; &gt; I have enough trouble convincing people to wait for a 2MB Java applet that 's downloaded once and cached with WebStart .
In an earlier post , someone was talking about a web-based ( WebGL ) port of Quake .
They said the game fetched the textures after the level was loaded , while the user was playing .
You can imagine something like that , if properly implemented , mitigating the problem .
Textures only need to be loaded when you are about to see them , and they only need to be loaded in full quality when you can see them up close .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt; 3D graphics is bandwidth intensive, especially for textures.
Well, fortunately, bandwidth is increasing, slowly, over time.
It's apparently pretty easy to get a 100Mbps connection in Japan now.
Even downloading 100MBs of textures at that speed wouldn't be so bad.
In the meantime, textures can be compressed for download.
Quake 3 used jpeg files for its textures.
That can easily give you a compression ratio of 10:1.
&gt;&gt; 3D accelerated postage stamps just won't be that compelling.
Look at the browser games people are playing.
My girlfriend keeps getting addicted to them.
None of them are really that sophisticated, looks wise.
If someone can just manage to get some 3D RPG game online, even if it looks like a 10 year old game, people WILL play it, *alot*.
&gt;&gt; Procedural textures are vastly smaller but are rather labour intensive to create.
While this is a nice concept it won't be replacing downloaded 3D content anytime soon.
It's my opinion that procedural content is "The Future (TM)".
If you give people enough motivation to use it, they just might.
Web-based games might be a good reason to develop the technology further, because it makes even more sense in that context.
&gt;&gt; I have enough trouble convincing people to wait for a 2MB Java applet that's downloaded once and cached with WebStart.
In an earlier post, someone was talking about a web-based (WebGL) port of Quake.
They said the game fetched the textures after the level was loaded, while the user was playing.
You can imagine something like that, if properly implemented, mitigating the problem.
Textures only need to be loaded when you are about to see them, and they only need to be loaded in full quality when you can see them up close.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31258132</id>
	<title>Re:Bandwidth is a killer</title>
	<author>gizmod</author>
	<datestamp>1265118720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What you say about postage sized textures and bandwidth intensity is true. Also you make a good point about convincing people to wait for the plug in to download and all, BUT...

I can think of one browser plug in based game that has had fantastic success so far. Take QuakeLive for instance. The only other thing to be said for QL maybe is that Quake was already a popular game to begin with. Will unknown games that are unproven but run with similar plug ins have similar success? Maybe Id Software will sell the plug in architecture in the same way that they license their 3D engines. Maybe they'll open source it altogether.

Just a thought.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What you say about postage sized textures and bandwidth intensity is true .
Also you make a good point about convincing people to wait for the plug in to download and all , BUT.. . I can think of one browser plug in based game that has had fantastic success so far .
Take QuakeLive for instance .
The only other thing to be said for QL maybe is that Quake was already a popular game to begin with .
Will unknown games that are unproven but run with similar plug ins have similar success ?
Maybe Id Software will sell the plug in architecture in the same way that they license their 3D engines .
Maybe they 'll open source it altogether .
Just a thought .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What you say about postage sized textures and bandwidth intensity is true.
Also you make a good point about convincing people to wait for the plug in to download and all, BUT...

I can think of one browser plug in based game that has had fantastic success so far.
Take QuakeLive for instance.
The only other thing to be said for QL maybe is that Quake was already a popular game to begin with.
Will unknown games that are unproven but run with similar plug ins have similar success?
Maybe Id Software will sell the plug in architecture in the same way that they license their 3D engines.
Maybe they'll open source it altogether.
Just a thought.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256924</id>
	<title>Bandwidth is a killer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265104560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>3D graphics is bandwidth intensive, especially for textures. 3D accelerated postage stamps just won't be that compelling. Procedural textures are vastly smaller but are rather labour intensive to create. While this is a nice concept it won't be replacing downloaded 3D content anytime soon. I have enough trouble convincing people to wait for a 2MB Java applet that's downloaded once and cached with WebStart.</htmltext>
<tokenext>3D graphics is bandwidth intensive , especially for textures .
3D accelerated postage stamps just wo n't be that compelling .
Procedural textures are vastly smaller but are rather labour intensive to create .
While this is a nice concept it wo n't be replacing downloaded 3D content anytime soon .
I have enough trouble convincing people to wait for a 2MB Java applet that 's downloaded once and cached with WebStart .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>3D graphics is bandwidth intensive, especially for textures.
3D accelerated postage stamps just won't be that compelling.
Procedural textures are vastly smaller but are rather labour intensive to create.
While this is a nice concept it won't be replacing downloaded 3D content anytime soon.
I have enough trouble convincing people to wait for a 2MB Java applet that's downloaded once and cached with WebStart.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257022</id>
	<title>Not all browser games are ugly and slow.</title>
	<author>incognito84</author>
	<datestamp>1265105520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not all browser games need to be 2D or an ugly sort of 3D that resembles something from the Nintendo 64 or worse. Here is an example of a 3D, browser-based FPS game that not only runs great (with Firefox) but also looks as good as any other modern FPS title:
<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.interstellarmarines.com/" title="interstellarmarines.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.interstellarmarines.com/</a> [interstellarmarines.com]
<br>
<br>
Browser games have enormous potential (with the exception of Flash based games).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not all browser games need to be 2D or an ugly sort of 3D that resembles something from the Nintendo 64 or worse .
Here is an example of a 3D , browser-based FPS game that not only runs great ( with Firefox ) but also looks as good as any other modern FPS title : http : //www.interstellarmarines.com/ [ interstellarmarines.com ] Browser games have enormous potential ( with the exception of Flash based games ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not all browser games need to be 2D or an ugly sort of 3D that resembles something from the Nintendo 64 or worse.
Here is an example of a 3D, browser-based FPS game that not only runs great (with Firefox) but also looks as good as any other modern FPS title:


http://www.interstellarmarines.com/ [interstellarmarines.com]


Browser games have enormous potential (with the exception of Flash based games).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257218</id>
	<title>Re:DirectX 11? DOA already I think</title>
	<author>Zaphod The 42nd</author>
	<datestamp>1265108220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>DirectX is indeed Windows only, and in particular 11 is Vista and 7 only, which is ridiculous.
<br> <br>
So not only all Macs and Linux boxes couldn't play these games, but all XP boxes too.
<br> <br>
Sorry, I just don't see Dx11 becoming huge in browsers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>DirectX is indeed Windows only , and in particular 11 is Vista and 7 only , which is ridiculous .
So not only all Macs and Linux boxes could n't play these games , but all XP boxes too .
Sorry , I just do n't see Dx11 becoming huge in browsers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DirectX is indeed Windows only, and in particular 11 is Vista and 7 only, which is ridiculous.
So not only all Macs and Linux boxes couldn't play these games, but all XP boxes too.
Sorry, I just don't see Dx11 becoming huge in browsers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257066</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256910</id>
	<title>I pretty much switched off</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265104380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>after reading DirectX in the title.  Why oh why do people insist on using single platform technologies for the web when the web in general is moving in the direction of open technologies?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>after reading DirectX in the title .
Why oh why do people insist on using single platform technologies for the web when the web in general is moving in the direction of open technologies ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>after reading DirectX in the title.
Why oh why do people insist on using single platform technologies for the web when the web in general is moving in the direction of open technologies?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257008</id>
	<title>Yeah sure...</title>
	<author>Fotograf</author>
	<datestamp>1265105340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>all we need are more applications (yet less those performance demanding) depending on webbrowser. What happened with good old optimized desktop applications? Now even most people dont use the desktop mail client anymore</htmltext>
<tokenext>all we need are more applications ( yet less those performance demanding ) depending on webbrowser .
What happened with good old optimized desktop applications ?
Now even most people dont use the desktop mail client anymore</tokentext>
<sentencetext>all we need are more applications (yet less those performance demanding) depending on webbrowser.
What happened with good old optimized desktop applications?
Now even most people dont use the desktop mail client anymore</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257254</id>
	<title>Re:Not convinced</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265108580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So, it'll be like a normal game, only take ages to load, have terrible performance and be full of interstitial adverts?</p></div><p>Don't be ridiculous.</p><p>It will be a massive security hole too.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , it 'll be like a normal game , only take ages to load , have terrible performance and be full of interstitial adverts ? Do n't be ridiculous.It will be a massive security hole too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, it'll be like a normal game, only take ages to load, have terrible performance and be full of interstitial adverts?Don't be ridiculous.It will be a massive security hole too.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256964</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257072</id>
	<title>Unity anyone..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265106300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought Unity was going to be the One True Plugin for all platforms, and that games shops would focus there. I'm so naive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought Unity was going to be the One True Plugin for all platforms , and that games shops would focus there .
I 'm so naive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought Unity was going to be the One True Plugin for all platforms, and that games shops would focus there.
I'm so naive.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257312</id>
	<title>Re:Another pointless plugin?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265109360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree that WebGL will eventually make 3D more accessible in browsers (once it's supported in mainstream browsers). I doubt, however, if any commercial developers will use it, because it's based on scripting, so offers a way for everyone to view the source code, something that commercial publishers tend to dislike. I also imagine that its scripting nature will mean that WebGL games won't have access to advanced gaming technology such as physics, and so relegate it to more casual games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree that WebGL will eventually make 3D more accessible in browsers ( once it 's supported in mainstream browsers ) .
I doubt , however , if any commercial developers will use it , because it 's based on scripting , so offers a way for everyone to view the source code , something that commercial publishers tend to dislike .
I also imagine that its scripting nature will mean that WebGL games wo n't have access to advanced gaming technology such as physics , and so relegate it to more casual games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree that WebGL will eventually make 3D more accessible in browsers (once it's supported in mainstream browsers).
I doubt, however, if any commercial developers will use it, because it's based on scripting, so offers a way for everyone to view the source code, something that commercial publishers tend to dislike.
I also imagine that its scripting nature will mean that WebGL games won't have access to advanced gaming technology such as physics, and so relegate it to more casual games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31258526</id>
	<title>Re:Not all browser games are ugly and slow.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265122080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><b>ignore parent post</b> : linked game requires the installation of yet another plugin - unity or some crap.</p><p>poster is an well known and ignorant moron. doesn't know difference between opengl and his clacker.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ignore parent post : linked game requires the installation of yet another plugin - unity or some crap.poster is an well known and ignorant moron .
does n't know difference between opengl and his clacker .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ignore parent post : linked game requires the installation of yet another plugin - unity or some crap.poster is an well known and ignorant moron.
doesn't know difference between opengl and his clacker.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257022</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31258336</id>
	<title>Re:Slashvertisment?</title>
	<author>jpate</author>
	<datestamp>1265120580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually i'm pretty excited for all the websites that will use this for 3D navigation menus. Who says it's only for games? And the best part is everyone will have to use this plugin to navigate those sites!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually i 'm pretty excited for all the websites that will use this for 3D navigation menus .
Who says it 's only for games ?
And the best part is everyone will have to use this plugin to navigate those sites !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually i'm pretty excited for all the websites that will use this for 3D navigation menus.
Who says it's only for games?
And the best part is everyone will have to use this plugin to navigate those sites!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257052</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31258276</id>
	<title>Re:Another pointless plugin?</title>
	<author>DevConcepts</author>
	<datestamp>1265120220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How long will it be until we can kill the plugin mechanism entirely?</p></div><p>First you have to pry smiley tool bar from the AOL idiot's dead hands...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How long will it be until we can kill the plugin mechanism entirely ? First you have to pry smiley tool bar from the AOL idiot 's dead hands.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How long will it be until we can kill the plugin mechanism entirely?First you have to pry smiley tool bar from the AOL idiot's dead hands...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257326</id>
	<title>Uh... excuse me?</title>
	<author>Jane Q. Public</author>
	<datestamp>1265109420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"... limited bandwidth will also limit what effects a developer can realistically implement into a browser game."</i>
<br> <br>
Why does OP claim this? Remember: browsers can also work with local resources. So maybe it could be used like other engines, such as in Everquest II. Sure, you are interacting online... but most of your graphic object definitions are local; there is no "bandwidth limitation" there. Same with some FPS games. Almost all the graphic resources are local, and the only "bandwidth" issue is the amount of interaction information that can go over the net.
<br> <br>
Somebody will figure that out, if they haven't already. And there goes that bandwidth limitation. Bye bye.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" ... limited bandwidth will also limit what effects a developer can realistically implement into a browser game .
" Why does OP claim this ?
Remember : browsers can also work with local resources .
So maybe it could be used like other engines , such as in Everquest II .
Sure , you are interacting online... but most of your graphic object definitions are local ; there is no " bandwidth limitation " there .
Same with some FPS games .
Almost all the graphic resources are local , and the only " bandwidth " issue is the amount of interaction information that can go over the net .
Somebody will figure that out , if they have n't already .
And there goes that bandwidth limitation .
Bye bye .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"... limited bandwidth will also limit what effects a developer can realistically implement into a browser game.
"
 
Why does OP claim this?
Remember: browsers can also work with local resources.
So maybe it could be used like other engines, such as in Everquest II.
Sure, you are interacting online... but most of your graphic object definitions are local; there is no "bandwidth limitation" there.
Same with some FPS games.
Almost all the graphic resources are local, and the only "bandwidth" issue is the amount of interaction information that can go over the net.
Somebody will figure that out, if they haven't already.
And there goes that bandwidth limitation.
Bye bye.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257836</id>
	<title>Re:Bandwidth is a killer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265115480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ok so basically you want to completely download the game, install it and then run it in a browser as if it wasn't a desktop game... with all the limitations of browser... knowing that you've just installed it... as a desktop game... freaky...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok so basically you want to completely download the game , install it and then run it in a browser as if it was n't a desktop game... with all the limitations of browser... knowing that you 've just installed it... as a desktop game... freaky.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok so basically you want to completely download the game, install it and then run it in a browser as if it wasn't a desktop game... with all the limitations of browser... knowing that you've just installed it... as a desktop game... freaky...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257028</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31258214</id>
	<title>Is it as secure as other Microsoft Products?</title>
	<author>happy\_place</author>
	<datestamp>1265119680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I keep wondering if this won't open a whole new series of security exploits. Has Direct X been tested for cracker cooties?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I keep wondering if this wo n't open a whole new series of security exploits .
Has Direct X been tested for cracker cooties ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I keep wondering if this won't open a whole new series of security exploits.
Has Direct X been tested for cracker cooties?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257128</id>
	<title>Cloud computing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265107020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This may be the start of a major war to lock customers into DirectX. <br> <br> Although I hate Flash, I would still rather have an open standard than replacing it with DirectX. At least Flash works on most of the platforms<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br> <br> I am surprised that such a move is not coming rather from a company involved in either graphics or cloud computing. The next step after putting DirectX in your browser is to move the complex and hardware intensive computations on a server and charge people on a monthly basis to access the games. This would solve piracy by requiring you to sign in to play a game !</htmltext>
<tokenext>This may be the start of a major war to lock customers into DirectX .
Although I hate Flash , I would still rather have an open standard than replacing it with DirectX .
At least Flash works on most of the platforms ... I am surprised that such a move is not coming rather from a company involved in either graphics or cloud computing .
The next step after putting DirectX in your browser is to move the complex and hardware intensive computations on a server and charge people on a monthly basis to access the games .
This would solve piracy by requiring you to sign in to play a game !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This may be the start of a major war to lock customers into DirectX.
Although I hate Flash, I would still rather have an open standard than replacing it with DirectX.
At least Flash works on most of the platforms ...  I am surprised that such a move is not coming rather from a company involved in either graphics or cloud computing.
The next step after putting DirectX in your browser is to move the complex and hardware intensive computations on a server and charge people on a monthly basis to access the games.
This would solve piracy by requiring you to sign in to play a game !</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31260758</id>
	<title>Completely new!</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1265132580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, it's not like anybody has <a href="http://unity3d.com/webplayer/" title="unity3d.com">done this or anything</a> [unity3d.com].  I'm sure that *this* time, it will completely revolutionize gaming. And somehow install the desire for hordes of consumers to want to play graphically intense 3d games from their web browser...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , it 's not like anybody has done this or anything [ unity3d.com ] .
I 'm sure that * this * time , it will completely revolutionize gaming .
And somehow install the desire for hordes of consumers to want to play graphically intense 3d games from their web browser.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, it's not like anybody has done this or anything [unity3d.com].
I'm sure that *this* time, it will completely revolutionize gaming.
And somehow install the desire for hordes of consumers to want to play graphically intense 3d games from their web browser...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257104</id>
	<title>Re:Spyware on my GPU</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265106780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You've obviously never written any shaders before. Basically, they take a fixed set of inputs and output a fixed set of outputs, there are no system calls, no filesystem access, and no network access. The most malicious thing you could do would be to write an infinite loop in your shader, which wouldn't actually be infinite, because the video card will terminate that shader after not particularly long.</p><p>The actual gaping security hole here is that the plugin will thunk to DirectX, which means it's basically just ActiveX all over again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 've obviously never written any shaders before .
Basically , they take a fixed set of inputs and output a fixed set of outputs , there are no system calls , no filesystem access , and no network access .
The most malicious thing you could do would be to write an infinite loop in your shader , which would n't actually be infinite , because the video card will terminate that shader after not particularly long.The actual gaping security hole here is that the plugin will thunk to DirectX , which means it 's basically just ActiveX all over again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You've obviously never written any shaders before.
Basically, they take a fixed set of inputs and output a fixed set of outputs, there are no system calls, no filesystem access, and no network access.
The most malicious thing you could do would be to write an infinite loop in your shader, which wouldn't actually be infinite, because the video card will terminate that shader after not particularly long.The actual gaping security hole here is that the plugin will thunk to DirectX, which means it's basically just ActiveX all over again.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257290</id>
	<title>MS only</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265109120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some one is thrilled whit the idea of making internet MS only!?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some one is thrilled whit the idea of making internet MS only !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some one is thrilled whit the idea of making internet MS only!
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257754</id>
	<title>Re:Another pointless plugin?</title>
	<author>Eivind</author>
	<datestamp>1265114700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed, sorta.</p><p>Browser-plugins for supporting media-formats have indeed been precisely what you say, a disaster. Java Applet here, Flash-thingie there (version such-and-such required) ActiveX-shit up left, and Shockwave there. Every one of which attempts to do, more or less, the same thing.</p><p>Security-holes abound, as do incompatibilities and performance-problems. (hands up everyone who's experienced multi-second browser-freeze, even on modern hardware, because some website is loading some ad that happens to be a flash or java-applet!)</p><p>On the other hand, browser-extensions for non-standard behaviour seem to work fine. Stuff like Xmarks, Adblock, various tab-tweaks etc. But these are extensions that are there because the USER has selected to install them, not because the website-developer has decided that you need SpecialPlugin version 7.0.321.9 to seee this page.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed , sorta.Browser-plugins for supporting media-formats have indeed been precisely what you say , a disaster .
Java Applet here , Flash-thingie there ( version such-and-such required ) ActiveX-shit up left , and Shockwave there .
Every one of which attempts to do , more or less , the same thing.Security-holes abound , as do incompatibilities and performance-problems .
( hands up everyone who 's experienced multi-second browser-freeze , even on modern hardware , because some website is loading some ad that happens to be a flash or java-applet !
) On the other hand , browser-extensions for non-standard behaviour seem to work fine .
Stuff like Xmarks , Adblock , various tab-tweaks etc .
But these are extensions that are there because the USER has selected to install them , not because the website-developer has decided that you need SpecialPlugin version 7.0.321.9 to seee this page .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed, sorta.Browser-plugins for supporting media-formats have indeed been precisely what you say, a disaster.
Java Applet here, Flash-thingie there (version such-and-such required) ActiveX-shit up left, and Shockwave there.
Every one of which attempts to do, more or less, the same thing.Security-holes abound, as do incompatibilities and performance-problems.
(hands up everyone who's experienced multi-second browser-freeze, even on modern hardware, because some website is loading some ad that happens to be a flash or java-applet!
)On the other hand, browser-extensions for non-standard behaviour seem to work fine.
Stuff like Xmarks, Adblock, various tab-tweaks etc.
But these are extensions that are there because the USER has selected to install them, not because the website-developer has decided that you need SpecialPlugin version 7.0.321.9 to seee this page.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31269048</id>
	<title>Re:Yeah sure...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265137560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>all we need are more applications (yet less those performance demanding) depending on webbrowser. What happened with good old optimized desktop applications? Now even most people dont use the desktop mail client anymore</p></div><p>What happened is that people at work figured out that web apps are great for playing games. You usually don't need to install anything beyond what is already on the computer, and probably wouldn't have rights to do so anyhow.</p><p>In addition, a lot of small shops figured out that they can give away their cheap browser game for free, because you have to keep coming back and they get to keep generating ad revenue off the page hits. You don't have to worry about patch updates because they're getting the most recent update every time.</p><p>And the best part for the devs: if it isn't working you can just blame it on the browser or plugin.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>all we need are more applications ( yet less those performance demanding ) depending on webbrowser .
What happened with good old optimized desktop applications ?
Now even most people dont use the desktop mail client anymoreWhat happened is that people at work figured out that web apps are great for playing games .
You usually do n't need to install anything beyond what is already on the computer , and probably would n't have rights to do so anyhow.In addition , a lot of small shops figured out that they can give away their cheap browser game for free , because you have to keep coming back and they get to keep generating ad revenue off the page hits .
You do n't have to worry about patch updates because they 're getting the most recent update every time.And the best part for the devs : if it is n't working you can just blame it on the browser or plugin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>all we need are more applications (yet less those performance demanding) depending on webbrowser.
What happened with good old optimized desktop applications?
Now even most people dont use the desktop mail client anymoreWhat happened is that people at work figured out that web apps are great for playing games.
You usually don't need to install anything beyond what is already on the computer, and probably wouldn't have rights to do so anyhow.In addition, a lot of small shops figured out that they can give away their cheap browser game for free, because you have to keep coming back and they get to keep generating ad revenue off the page hits.
You don't have to worry about patch updates because they're getting the most recent update every time.And the best part for the devs: if it isn't working you can just blame it on the browser or plugin.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257008</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257346</id>
	<title>Re:Cloud computing</title>
	<author>ultranova</author>
	<datestamp>1265109660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The next step after putting DirectX in your browser is to move the complex and hardware intensive computations on a server and charge people on a monthly basis to access the games. This would solve piracy by requiring you to sign in to play a game !</p></div> </blockquote><p>And require a pretty beefy server with lots of bandwidth. In other words, it's expensive.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The next step after putting DirectX in your browser is to move the complex and hardware intensive computations on a server and charge people on a monthly basis to access the games .
This would solve piracy by requiring you to sign in to play a game !
And require a pretty beefy server with lots of bandwidth .
In other words , it 's expensive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The next step after putting DirectX in your browser is to move the complex and hardware intensive computations on a server and charge people on a monthly basis to access the games.
This would solve piracy by requiring you to sign in to play a game !
And require a pretty beefy server with lots of bandwidth.
In other words, it's expensive.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257128</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31263164</id>
	<title>Re:Slashvertisment?</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1265142360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That is what I was thinking as well.</p><p>It will be like the "old" days before firefox where site after site asked you to upgrade to IE 6.</p></div><p>Except that it'll also be asking the users of Windows browsers to install this plugin.</p><p>And guess what the answer will usually be?..</p><p>I can't even be bothered to install Quicktime as it is - whenever I come by a site that asks me to install it, I leave it right away. Why do they think I could be bothered to install theirs?</p><p>They already have 3 options:</p><p>1. Write it using Flash.<br>2. Write it using Silverlight.<br>3. Write it using HTML5.</p><p>If features from neither of platforms listed above are sufficient to implement what they want, then why the hell should it even be a browser game?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That is what I was thinking as well.It will be like the " old " days before firefox where site after site asked you to upgrade to IE 6.Except that it 'll also be asking the users of Windows browsers to install this plugin.And guess what the answer will usually be ? ..I ca n't even be bothered to install Quicktime as it is - whenever I come by a site that asks me to install it , I leave it right away .
Why do they think I could be bothered to install theirs ? They already have 3 options : 1 .
Write it using Flash.2 .
Write it using Silverlight.3 .
Write it using HTML5.If features from neither of platforms listed above are sufficient to implement what they want , then why the hell should it even be a browser game ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is what I was thinking as well.It will be like the "old" days before firefox where site after site asked you to upgrade to IE 6.Except that it'll also be asking the users of Windows browsers to install this plugin.And guess what the answer will usually be?..I can't even be bothered to install Quicktime as it is - whenever I come by a site that asks me to install it, I leave it right away.
Why do they think I could be bothered to install theirs?They already have 3 options:1.
Write it using Flash.2.
Write it using Silverlight.3.
Write it using HTML5.If features from neither of platforms listed above are sufficient to implement what they want, then why the hell should it even be a browser game?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257052</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257126</id>
	<title>Re:Spyware on my GPU</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265106960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Er, what? </p><p>Security is very critical for these kinds of plugins, sure, and focus should be given to the scripting engine they use - but how you plan to write a malicious shader with today's tech is way beyond me. A shader is basically a program which takes some input values, and outputs a vertex position or a pixel color. Now how would a hacker abuse that? Make a shader to output pixels in that evil brown color which makes you shit yourself?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Er , what ?
Security is very critical for these kinds of plugins , sure , and focus should be given to the scripting engine they use - but how you plan to write a malicious shader with today 's tech is way beyond me .
A shader is basically a program which takes some input values , and outputs a vertex position or a pixel color .
Now how would a hacker abuse that ?
Make a shader to output pixels in that evil brown color which makes you shit yourself ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Er, what?
Security is very critical for these kinds of plugins, sure, and focus should be given to the scripting engine they use - but how you plan to write a malicious shader with today's tech is way beyond me.
A shader is basically a program which takes some input values, and outputs a vertex position or a pixel color.
Now how would a hacker abuse that?
Make a shader to output pixels in that evil brown color which makes you shit yourself?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257004</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257066</id>
	<title>DirectX 11? DOA already I think</title>
	<author>Kitkoan</author>
	<datestamp>1265106180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unless I missed it, I'm pretty sure DirectX is Windows only. So that means any web game/app that is written in it would have to have be made for either Windows Vista or 7 ( <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX</a> [wikipedia.org] ) as those are the only 2 OS's that support it. It also means that any and all OSX and Linux boxes wouldn't be able to use these browser games/apps. This type of problem has already caused strains with Flash not being better supported on those OS's, now we'll have a worse issue with this. Yeah, don't see it happening just for this issue alone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless I missed it , I 'm pretty sure DirectX is Windows only .
So that means any web game/app that is written in it would have to have be made for either Windows Vista or 7 ( http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX [ wikipedia.org ] ) as those are the only 2 OS 's that support it .
It also means that any and all OSX and Linux boxes would n't be able to use these browser games/apps .
This type of problem has already caused strains with Flash not being better supported on those OS 's , now we 'll have a worse issue with this .
Yeah , do n't see it happening just for this issue alone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless I missed it, I'm pretty sure DirectX is Windows only.
So that means any web game/app that is written in it would have to have be made for either Windows Vista or 7 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX [wikipedia.org] ) as those are the only 2 OS's that support it.
It also means that any and all OSX and Linux boxes wouldn't be able to use these browser games/apps.
This type of problem has already caused strains with Flash not being better supported on those OS's, now we'll have a worse issue with this.
Yeah, don't see it happening just for this issue alone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31258358</id>
	<title>Unity</title>
	<author>Tom</author>
	<datestamp>1265120760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And the news is what, exactly?</p><p><a href="http://unity3d.com/" title="unity3d.com">Unity 3D</a> [unity3d.com] has had a browser plugin for its engine for several years now. (PC and Mac)</p><p>There are one or two others as well.</p><p>So the news is what, again?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And the news is what , exactly ? Unity 3D [ unity3d.com ] has had a browser plugin for its engine for several years now .
( PC and Mac ) There are one or two others as well.So the news is what , again ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the news is what, exactly?Unity 3D [unity3d.com] has had a browser plugin for its engine for several years now.
(PC and Mac)There are one or two others as well.So the news is what, again?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31259338</id>
	<title>Re:Flash Redux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265126460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>No one wants Flash</p></div></blockquote><p>I want Flash, ergo your argument is wrong.  Buh-Bye.</p><p>And no, I'm not a Flash developer.  The only time I've even attempted to write something in Flash was back when Flash 5 was new.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No one wants FlashI want Flash , ergo your argument is wrong .
Buh-Bye.And no , I 'm not a Flash developer .
The only time I 've even attempted to write something in Flash was back when Flash 5 was new .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No one wants FlashI want Flash, ergo your argument is wrong.
Buh-Bye.And no, I'm not a Flash developer.
The only time I've even attempted to write something in Flash was back when Flash 5 was new.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257102</id>
	<title>Quakelive?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265106720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This reminds me of Quakelive.<br>It's a great idea on paper, but usualy DRM/anti-cheats come to play.</p><p>Look at QL, you can't just login and play, you need to install a plugin. And then you need admin rights (atleast on windows) so the plugin could install the DRM/Anti-cheat crapware.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This reminds me of Quakelive.It 's a great idea on paper , but usualy DRM/anti-cheats come to play.Look at QL , you ca n't just login and play , you need to install a plugin .
And then you need admin rights ( atleast on windows ) so the plugin could install the DRM/Anti-cheat crapware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This reminds me of Quakelive.It's a great idea on paper, but usualy DRM/anti-cheats come to play.Look at QL, you can't just login and play, you need to install a plugin.
And then you need admin rights (atleast on windows) so the plugin could install the DRM/Anti-cheat crapware.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31259210</id>
	<title>Re:Bandwidth is a killer</title>
	<author>maxwell demon</author>
	<datestamp>1265125800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He didn't suggest downloading a game to be installed locally. He suggested a common set of textures to be locally installed.</p><p>To make a comparison: About every web site uses text. Now in principle, every web site could send its own font to your browser. However, instead the typical way it is done is that you install a certain set of fonts locally on your computer, and the web site just uses that. Replace web site with game, and font with texture, and you get what he meant.</p><p>For example, there could be standard textures for the most common materials, say wood, steel, cloth, water, ice, snow, concrete, brick, soil. Then any game which wants to use any of those materials could just access the standard textures. Of course it could use its own textures as well if the game author doesn't like the standard ones, but that would now be just the decision of the game author.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He did n't suggest downloading a game to be installed locally .
He suggested a common set of textures to be locally installed.To make a comparison : About every web site uses text .
Now in principle , every web site could send its own font to your browser .
However , instead the typical way it is done is that you install a certain set of fonts locally on your computer , and the web site just uses that .
Replace web site with game , and font with texture , and you get what he meant.For example , there could be standard textures for the most common materials , say wood , steel , cloth , water , ice , snow , concrete , brick , soil .
Then any game which wants to use any of those materials could just access the standard textures .
Of course it could use its own textures as well if the game author does n't like the standard ones , but that would now be just the decision of the game author .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He didn't suggest downloading a game to be installed locally.
He suggested a common set of textures to be locally installed.To make a comparison: About every web site uses text.
Now in principle, every web site could send its own font to your browser.
However, instead the typical way it is done is that you install a certain set of fonts locally on your computer, and the web site just uses that.
Replace web site with game, and font with texture, and you get what he meant.For example, there could be standard textures for the most common materials, say wood, steel, cloth, water, ice, snow, concrete, brick, soil.
Then any game which wants to use any of those materials could just access the standard textures.
Of course it could use its own textures as well if the game author doesn't like the standard ones, but that would now be just the decision of the game author.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257238</id>
	<title>Re:Not convinced</title>
	<author>slart42</author>
	<datestamp>1265108400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Think of it this way:</p><p>Once bandwidth is fast enough that you can stream 3d data roughly as fast as computers display them (and it is getting there - some decent caching may also help here), you will be able to have browser games with live updated in-game worlds much huger then feasible through downloaded content.</p><p>Check out <a href="http://www.fusionfall.com/" title="fusionfall.com" rel="nofollow">FusionFall</a> [fusionfall.com] for a browser based 3d MMO based on the Unity plugin, which downloads it's content on the fly as you move through the world. It does take a while to initially load on small connections, but, as I wrote, the tech is getting there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Think of it this way : Once bandwidth is fast enough that you can stream 3d data roughly as fast as computers display them ( and it is getting there - some decent caching may also help here ) , you will be able to have browser games with live updated in-game worlds much huger then feasible through downloaded content.Check out FusionFall [ fusionfall.com ] for a browser based 3d MMO based on the Unity plugin , which downloads it 's content on the fly as you move through the world .
It does take a while to initially load on small connections , but , as I wrote , the tech is getting there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Think of it this way:Once bandwidth is fast enough that you can stream 3d data roughly as fast as computers display them (and it is getting there - some decent caching may also help here), you will be able to have browser games with live updated in-game worlds much huger then feasible through downloaded content.Check out FusionFall [fusionfall.com] for a browser based 3d MMO based on the Unity plugin, which downloads it's content on the fly as you move through the world.
It does take a while to initially load on small connections, but, as I wrote, the tech is getting there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256964</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257200</id>
	<title>Meet next generation, same as previous generation</title>
	<author>Stan Vassilev</author>
	<datestamp>1265107920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Forget Farmville, Flash puzzlers and 8-bit home computer emulators. The next generation of browser games will be able to take advantage of DirectX 11 effects, not to mention multi-core processing and both Havok and PhysX physics effects.</p></div><p>Why does this sound familiar. Maybe because it reminds me of Macromedia Shockwave, the browser plugin from the 90-s. With OpenGL, Direct3D support and Havok for physics effects. Yet today we still play Farmville and Flash puzzlers, some of which make millions of dollars per month for their makers.</p><p>Every year another naive startup announces the next generation of gaming on the web. History is full of 3D plugins that failed to gain much traction beyond a small niche of devoted users.</p><p>The fact is browser experience should be light, compatible and ubiquitious among a range of devices, and Flash/Silverlight is already pushing the limits of what is practical in a browser plugin. If your app will be big, resource-hungry and platform-specific, then offline applications simply work better.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Forget Farmville , Flash puzzlers and 8-bit home computer emulators .
The next generation of browser games will be able to take advantage of DirectX 11 effects , not to mention multi-core processing and both Havok and PhysX physics effects.Why does this sound familiar .
Maybe because it reminds me of Macromedia Shockwave , the browser plugin from the 90-s. With OpenGL , Direct3D support and Havok for physics effects .
Yet today we still play Farmville and Flash puzzlers , some of which make millions of dollars per month for their makers.Every year another naive startup announces the next generation of gaming on the web .
History is full of 3D plugins that failed to gain much traction beyond a small niche of devoted users.The fact is browser experience should be light , compatible and ubiquitious among a range of devices , and Flash/Silverlight is already pushing the limits of what is practical in a browser plugin .
If your app will be big , resource-hungry and platform-specific , then offline applications simply work better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Forget Farmville, Flash puzzlers and 8-bit home computer emulators.
The next generation of browser games will be able to take advantage of DirectX 11 effects, not to mention multi-core processing and both Havok and PhysX physics effects.Why does this sound familiar.
Maybe because it reminds me of Macromedia Shockwave, the browser plugin from the 90-s. With OpenGL, Direct3D support and Havok for physics effects.
Yet today we still play Farmville and Flash puzzlers, some of which make millions of dollars per month for their makers.Every year another naive startup announces the next generation of gaming on the web.
History is full of 3D plugins that failed to gain much traction beyond a small niche of devoted users.The fact is browser experience should be light, compatible and ubiquitious among a range of devices, and Flash/Silverlight is already pushing the limits of what is practical in a browser plugin.
If your app will be big, resource-hungry and platform-specific, then offline applications simply work better.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257056</id>
	<title>Re:Another pointless plugin?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265106120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I googled for any WebGL demo I could find, tried couple and.. they don't work.</p><p>"doesn't require any plugins", eh?</p><p>"click here for instructions how to enable webgl in firefox" -&gt; "you need latest nightly build blah blah".</p><p>Where's the damn difference between requiring plugin and requiring something that user need to download and install anyway?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I googled for any WebGL demo I could find , tried couple and.. they do n't work .
" does n't require any plugins " , eh ?
" click here for instructions how to enable webgl in firefox " - &gt; " you need latest nightly build blah blah " .Where 's the damn difference between requiring plugin and requiring something that user need to download and install anyway ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I googled for any WebGL demo I could find, tried couple and.. they don't work.
"doesn't require any plugins", eh?
"click here for instructions how to enable webgl in firefox" -&gt; "you need latest nightly build blah blah".Where's the damn difference between requiring plugin and requiring something that user need to download and install anyway?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31261488</id>
	<title>Re:Meet next generation, same as previous generati</title>
	<author>musicalmicah</author>
	<datestamp>1265135520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yup. And don't forget WildTangent. I remember playing with 3D graphics in my browser back in 2002. Same limitations: Windows-only, annoying to load, different performance on different computers. It was a fun learning experience, though.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yup .
And do n't forget WildTangent .
I remember playing with 3D graphics in my browser back in 2002 .
Same limitations : Windows-only , annoying to load , different performance on different computers .
It was a fun learning experience , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yup.
And don't forget WildTangent.
I remember playing with 3D graphics in my browser back in 2002.
Same limitations: Windows-only, annoying to load, different performance on different computers.
It was a fun learning experience, though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31259584</id>
	<title>Re:Slashvertisment?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265127660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, and all of those blind people that nobody likes, since their screen readers won't work, they won't
even be able to use the web at all!  Aren't you excited?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , and all of those blind people that nobody likes , since their screen readers wo n't work , they wo n't even be able to use the web at all !
Are n't you excited ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, and all of those blind people that nobody likes, since their screen readers won't work, they won't
even be able to use the web at all!
Aren't you excited?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31258336</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31269470</id>
	<title>Re:Slashvertisment?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267130100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>RE: <strong>DirectX 11</strong> Coming To Browser Games</p>  </div><p><div class="quote"><p>Will it work on Linux?</p></div><p>Am I the only one who caught "DirectX 11" in the title of this story? Or are you suggesting that they port DirectX to Linux as well?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>RE : DirectX 11 Coming To Browser Games Will it work on Linux ? Am I the only one who caught " DirectX 11 " in the title of this story ?
Or are you suggesting that they port DirectX to Linux as well ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RE: DirectX 11 Coming To Browser Games  Will it work on Linux?Am I the only one who caught "DirectX 11" in the title of this story?
Or are you suggesting that they port DirectX to Linux as well?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256894</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31261918</id>
	<title>Ye, that's the solution...</title>
	<author>dudeeh</author>
	<datestamp>1265137080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If i remember correctly, there was some "new" opengl thing coming to browsers right? Something to do with quake... I can't for the life of me remember what it was. Anyway, opengl would be cross-system.<br>Directx would be bound to windows, which begs the question...why... The only thing this achieves is to render the download and double click of an "exe" file obsolete at the cost of probably being run in a sandbox.<br>It would not run on any other system, hence forgoing the biggest advantage of the web: everyone can access / use it.</p><p>This is pointless beyond pointless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If i remember correctly , there was some " new " opengl thing coming to browsers right ?
Something to do with quake... I ca n't for the life of me remember what it was .
Anyway , opengl would be cross-system.Directx would be bound to windows , which begs the question...why... The only thing this achieves is to render the download and double click of an " exe " file obsolete at the cost of probably being run in a sandbox.It would not run on any other system , hence forgoing the biggest advantage of the web : everyone can access / use it.This is pointless beyond pointless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If i remember correctly, there was some "new" opengl thing coming to browsers right?
Something to do with quake... I can't for the life of me remember what it was.
Anyway, opengl would be cross-system.Directx would be bound to windows, which begs the question...why... The only thing this achieves is to render the download and double click of an "exe" file obsolete at the cost of probably being run in a sandbox.It would not run on any other system, hence forgoing the biggest advantage of the web: everyone can access / use it.This is pointless beyond pointless.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257004</id>
	<title>Spyware on my GPU</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265105340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Shaders these days are fully programmable and DirectX allows access to them. I can't see any reason why a shader run off of a webpage couldn't do whatever it wants.<br>
Graphics cards don't have any privilege ring security like x86s do. They simply trust that whatever shader that is sent to run on them is as trusted as the application running on the CPU that sends them the shader.<br>
With this plan your browser will be sending your graphics card shaders to run from whatever website you visit.<br> <br>

Either they are going to have to prune the API down a lot before it is safe (without shaders you may as well be using an earlier version of DirectX), or they are going to have a security nightmare.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Shaders these days are fully programmable and DirectX allows access to them .
I ca n't see any reason why a shader run off of a webpage could n't do whatever it wants .
Graphics cards do n't have any privilege ring security like x86s do .
They simply trust that whatever shader that is sent to run on them is as trusted as the application running on the CPU that sends them the shader .
With this plan your browser will be sending your graphics card shaders to run from whatever website you visit .
Either they are going to have to prune the API down a lot before it is safe ( without shaders you may as well be using an earlier version of DirectX ) , or they are going to have a security nightmare .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shaders these days are fully programmable and DirectX allows access to them.
I can't see any reason why a shader run off of a webpage couldn't do whatever it wants.
Graphics cards don't have any privilege ring security like x86s do.
They simply trust that whatever shader that is sent to run on them is as trusted as the application running on the CPU that sends them the shader.
With this plan your browser will be sending your graphics card shaders to run from whatever website you visit.
Either they are going to have to prune the API down a lot before it is safe (without shaders you may as well be using an earlier version of DirectX), or they are going to have a security nightmare.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31260620</id>
	<title>3D games in a web browser?</title>
	<author>carou</author>
	<datestamp>1265132100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>3D games in a web browser? <a href="http://unity3d.com/" title="unity3d.com">Been there, done that.</a> [unity3d.com]</p><p>Also, Trinergy appears to be a Windows-only technology wheras Unity works on MacOS too (and additionally supports native building for iPhone &amp; Wii)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>3D games in a web browser ?
Been there , done that .
[ unity3d.com ] Also , Trinergy appears to be a Windows-only technology wheras Unity works on MacOS too ( and additionally supports native building for iPhone &amp; Wii )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>3D games in a web browser?
Been there, done that.
[unity3d.com]Also, Trinergy appears to be a Windows-only technology wheras Unity works on MacOS too (and additionally supports native building for iPhone &amp; Wii)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257330</id>
	<title>What could...</title>
	<author>hoover</author>
	<datestamp>1265109480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Where's the whatcouldpossiblygowrong tag when you need it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Where 's the whatcouldpossiblygowrong tag when you need it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where's the whatcouldpossiblygowrong tag when you need it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256964</id>
	<title>Not convinced</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265104920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, it'll be like a normal game, only take ages to load, have terrible performance and be full of interstitial adverts? Though I realise with a lot of games these days those terms are relative.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , it 'll be like a normal game , only take ages to load , have terrible performance and be full of interstitial adverts ?
Though I realise with a lot of games these days those terms are relative .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, it'll be like a normal game, only take ages to load, have terrible performance and be full of interstitial adverts?
Though I realise with a lot of games these days those terms are relative.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257746</id>
	<title>Bandwith? maybe not a problem...</title>
	<author>cbuosi</author>
	<datestamp>1265114640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The bandwith used in 3D games would be mainly for its texture as the game logic and models arent so big.
Procedural texture could be used, see www.theprodukkt.com/kkrieger for an idea.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The bandwith used in 3D games would be mainly for its texture as the game logic and models arent so big .
Procedural texture could be used , see www.theprodukkt.com/kkrieger for an idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The bandwith used in 3D games would be mainly for its texture as the game logic and models arent so big.
Procedural texture could be used, see www.theprodukkt.com/kkrieger for an idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31262192</id>
	<title>Re:Another pointless plugin?</title>
	<author>nine-times</author>
	<datestamp>1265138160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why bother when we have WebGL [wikipedia.org] (the 3D canvas API) that doesn't require any plugins at all?...  the plugin mechanism has just resulted in one or two players achieving dominance and vendor lock-in.</p></div><p>I think you answered your own question.  Vendors want to push proprietary plugins so they can achieve vendor lock-in.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why bother when we have WebGL [ wikipedia.org ] ( the 3D canvas API ) that does n't require any plugins at all ? .. .
the plugin mechanism has just resulted in one or two players achieving dominance and vendor lock-in.I think you answered your own question .
Vendors want to push proprietary plugins so they can achieve vendor lock-in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why bother when we have WebGL [wikipedia.org] (the 3D canvas API) that doesn't require any plugins at all?...
the plugin mechanism has just resulted in one or two players achieving dominance and vendor lock-in.I think you answered your own question.
Vendors want to push proprietary plugins so they can achieve vendor lock-in.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257758</id>
	<title>Re:OpenGL</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1265114700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Flash doesn't run everywhere, but it runs on a lot of devices.  My mobile phone, my Mac laptop and my FreeBSD (x86) machine can all run Flash.  My SPARC64 machine can't, but that's about it.  You're also excluding the iPhone, but only from web delivery (you can package Flash games up as iPhone apps and offer them through the app store).  </p><p>
In contrast, DirectX 11 doesn't run on any mobile devices, any non-Windows platforms, or any versions of Windows older than Vista.  Windows XP apparently still has around 40-60\% of the Windows market, depending on which statistics you read.  Windows has 80-90\% of the desktop market.  Platforms that don't support DirectX 11 but do run web browsers outnumber platforms that do support DirectX 11 but run web browsers.  There are far fewer platforms that run web browsers but don't support flash.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Flash does n't run everywhere , but it runs on a lot of devices .
My mobile phone , my Mac laptop and my FreeBSD ( x86 ) machine can all run Flash .
My SPARC64 machine ca n't , but that 's about it .
You 're also excluding the iPhone , but only from web delivery ( you can package Flash games up as iPhone apps and offer them through the app store ) .
In contrast , DirectX 11 does n't run on any mobile devices , any non-Windows platforms , or any versions of Windows older than Vista .
Windows XP apparently still has around 40-60 \ % of the Windows market , depending on which statistics you read .
Windows has 80-90 \ % of the desktop market .
Platforms that do n't support DirectX 11 but do run web browsers outnumber platforms that do support DirectX 11 but run web browsers .
There are far fewer platforms that run web browsers but do n't support flash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Flash doesn't run everywhere, but it runs on a lot of devices.
My mobile phone, my Mac laptop and my FreeBSD (x86) machine can all run Flash.
My SPARC64 machine can't, but that's about it.
You're also excluding the iPhone, but only from web delivery (you can package Flash games up as iPhone apps and offer them through the app store).
In contrast, DirectX 11 doesn't run on any mobile devices, any non-Windows platforms, or any versions of Windows older than Vista.
Windows XP apparently still has around 40-60\% of the Windows market, depending on which statistics you read.
Windows has 80-90\% of the desktop market.
Platforms that don't support DirectX 11 but do run web browsers outnumber platforms that do support DirectX 11 but run web browsers.
There are far fewer platforms that run web browsers but don't support flash.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257486</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257984</id>
	<title>WTF?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265117040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Forget Farmville</p></div></blockquote><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...and start working when I'm at work??</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Forget Farmville ...and start working when I 'm at work ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Forget Farmville ...and start working when I'm at work?
?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31257028</id>
	<title>Re:Bandwidth is a killer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265105580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><br>
Can't textures be cached? What if my OS comes with 200MB of standard texture files? What if I can get a debian package of them and just keep it updated? I don't actually know how large texture files are so I'm genuinely open to persuasion on this. However, if people are willing to accept "you must download Silverlight / Flash / Codec X to play this movie", I can well see them installing a textures file. Even 500MB is insignificant for a lot of users as a one-time download or differential updates. And hard drive space for this is mostly irrelevant.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ca n't textures be cached ?
What if my OS comes with 200MB of standard texture files ?
What if I can get a debian package of them and just keep it updated ?
I do n't actually know how large texture files are so I 'm genuinely open to persuasion on this .
However , if people are willing to accept " you must download Silverlight / Flash / Codec X to play this movie " , I can well see them installing a textures file .
Even 500MB is insignificant for a lot of users as a one-time download or differential updates .
And hard drive space for this is mostly irrelevant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Can't textures be cached?
What if my OS comes with 200MB of standard texture files?
What if I can get a debian package of them and just keep it updated?
I don't actually know how large texture files are so I'm genuinely open to persuasion on this.
However, if people are willing to accept "you must download Silverlight / Flash / Codec X to play this movie", I can well see them installing a textures file.
Even 500MB is insignificant for a lot of users as a one-time download or differential updates.
And hard drive space for this is mostly irrelevant.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0331256.31256924</parent>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_02_24_0331256_6</id>
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