<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_24_0320234</id>
	<title>The Grown-Up Video Game</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1267025340000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Phaethon360 writes <i>"Now, more than ever, we're seeing many Mature ratings (M+, 17+, 18) being distributed by various national media regulators. But that isn't the only indicator for a game's intended audience. It doesn't take a thousand swear words, scantily clad women or gratuitous violence to differentiate a ten-year-old's game from a twenty-year-old's. The spectrum of human emotions <a href="http://www.couchcampus.com/lecture/the-grown-up-video-game/">encompasses a wider palette than just revenge, fear, and loss</a>, but the games that shy away from these are frequently mistaken as being for a younger audience. From the article: 'The human experience is one that is made up of great hardship, pain, loss, death, and a multitude of experiences seemingly designed to destroy a person.  However, that same experience is also filled with joy, love, laughter, family and friends. ... These so-called &ldquo;grown-up&rdquo; games need not be relegated to the category of niche gaming.  In fact, at times we find that these video games are capable of reaching mass popularity among the gaming community.  It is here that we find one of our generation&rsquo;s outlets for the expression of conflict.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Phaethon360 writes " Now , more than ever , we 're seeing many Mature ratings ( M + , 17 + , 18 ) being distributed by various national media regulators .
But that is n't the only indicator for a game 's intended audience .
It does n't take a thousand swear words , scantily clad women or gratuitous violence to differentiate a ten-year-old 's game from a twenty-year-old 's .
The spectrum of human emotions encompasses a wider palette than just revenge , fear , and loss , but the games that shy away from these are frequently mistaken as being for a younger audience .
From the article : 'The human experience is one that is made up of great hardship , pain , loss , death , and a multitude of experiences seemingly designed to destroy a person .
However , that same experience is also filled with joy , love , laughter , family and friends .
... These so-called    grown-up    games need not be relegated to the category of niche gaming .
In fact , at times we find that these video games are capable of reaching mass popularity among the gaming community .
It is here that we find one of our generation    s outlets for the expression of conflict .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Phaethon360 writes "Now, more than ever, we're seeing many Mature ratings (M+, 17+, 18) being distributed by various national media regulators.
But that isn't the only indicator for a game's intended audience.
It doesn't take a thousand swear words, scantily clad women or gratuitous violence to differentiate a ten-year-old's game from a twenty-year-old's.
The spectrum of human emotions encompasses a wider palette than just revenge, fear, and loss, but the games that shy away from these are frequently mistaken as being for a younger audience.
From the article: 'The human experience is one that is made up of great hardship, pain, loss, death, and a multitude of experiences seemingly designed to destroy a person.
However, that same experience is also filled with joy, love, laughter, family and friends.
... These so-called “grown-up” games need not be relegated to the category of niche gaming.
In fact, at times we find that these video games are capable of reaching mass popularity among the gaming community.
It is here that we find one of our generation’s outlets for the expression of conflict.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31264082</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1265103300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about strategic games. I&rsquo;d say Civilization is a really great game, especially for the older management type.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about strategic games .
I    d say Civilization is a really great game , especially for the older management type .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about strategic games.
I’d say Civilization is a really great game, especially for the older management type.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31258262</id>
	<title>Re:the game</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1265120100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Likewise, imageboard users already won on my behalf, twice.
<ul> <li> <a href="http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb134/themarker0/u9ob4e0whlowmi9v0p-1.jpg" title="photobucket.com">The Game Is Over: Double-triple-quadruple combo</a> [photobucket.com]</li><li> <a href="http://encyclopediadramatica.com/File:IT\_IS\_OVER..jpg" title="encycloped...matica.com">The Game Is Over: Quadruple doubles</a> [encycloped...matica.com] </li></ul></htmltext>
<tokenext>Likewise , imageboard users already won on my behalf , twice .
The Game Is Over : Double-triple-quadruple combo [ photobucket.com ] The Game Is Over : Quadruple doubles [ encycloped...matica.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Likewise, imageboard users already won on my behalf, twice.
The Game Is Over: Double-triple-quadruple combo [photobucket.com] The Game Is Over: Quadruple doubles [encycloped...matica.com] </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255246</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256718</id>
	<title>Fables</title>
	<author>Quiet\_Desperation</author>
	<datestamp>1265102040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I love a rich storyline as well- been playing RPGs since, well, "Adventure" on the 2600.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) Hey, OK, some of the early games required some imagination on the player's part. I had all sorts of tales spun about those duck-dragons and that bat.</p><p>However I'm not looking for any emotionalism. I really liked Fable 2, but I felt nothing for the dog. And when I had to choose between bringing back the dog and bringing back thousands of dead people, I brought back the dog. Why? Did I get attached after all? No, but the dog was useful in closing out a few remaining XBox achievements.</p><p>I was NOT affected by the death of Aerith.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) At least not beyond "Oh, crap, I liked using that character." If I recall she was a good healer.</p><p>OK, I do have a crush on Tali in Mass Effect, but other than that...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I love a rich storyline as well- been playing RPGs since , well , " Adventure " on the 2600. : - ) Hey , OK , some of the early games required some imagination on the player 's part .
I had all sorts of tales spun about those duck-dragons and that bat.However I 'm not looking for any emotionalism .
I really liked Fable 2 , but I felt nothing for the dog .
And when I had to choose between bringing back the dog and bringing back thousands of dead people , I brought back the dog .
Why ? Did I get attached after all ?
No , but the dog was useful in closing out a few remaining XBox achievements.I was NOT affected by the death of Aerith .
: - ) At least not beyond " Oh , crap , I liked using that character .
" If I recall she was a good healer.OK , I do have a crush on Tali in Mass Effect , but other than that.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love a rich storyline as well- been playing RPGs since, well, "Adventure" on the 2600. :-) Hey, OK, some of the early games required some imagination on the player's part.
I had all sorts of tales spun about those duck-dragons and that bat.However I'm not looking for any emotionalism.
I really liked Fable 2, but I felt nothing for the dog.
And when I had to choose between bringing back the dog and bringing back thousands of dead people, I brought back the dog.
Why? Did I get attached after all?
No, but the dog was useful in closing out a few remaining XBox achievements.I was NOT affected by the death of Aerith.
:-) At least not beyond "Oh, crap, I liked using that character.
" If I recall she was a good healer.OK, I do have a crush on Tali in Mass Effect, but other than that...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31257962</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>Targon</author>
	<datestamp>1265116800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The fact that most games have very little depth does not mean that games should not be developed that DO branch out.   Those who are younger tend to prefer the more action based games, but those who are older look for more than shooters and non-stop action.   Now, I am NOT talking about games where you play someone sitting at home chatting with the family or anything like that, but at the same time, do all games need to have the player control loners, soldiers, ex-soldiers, mercenaries, gang-bangers, and others who might be prone to violence in the first place?    Do all the women in games need to be sluts, whores, or female versions of the main character who are similar to the main character to the point where they too are military/mercenary types with the idea that violence should be the first way to deal with every situation?</p><p>What really is different is that many people feel that violence may be necessary in some situations, but is something to be avoided for the most part.    One thing that really marks games like Mass Effect as being different from the majority of games is the chance to avoid having the main character be someone who is ruthless, or just an asshole with a mission the game forces you to play through.   Yes, there is violence, but you don't HAVE to kill everyone, and even when tempted, you don't have to give in to temptation.    The idea of having someone to come home to, and not really wanting to be out there fighting all the time is missing.</p><p>Now, for those who don't know, many, or even most people who go to war really don't want to be there on the front lines.   Even those who initially want to go to war will often find that they hate being stationed far from home in an uncomfortable environment far from friends, family, and kids.   They want to get back home as soon as they can and get out of the hell hole that most war zones are.    And that element is what you see missing from most games, the fact that it seems exciting to be out there, until you see a friend killed in an explosion with you barely avoiding the majority of the blast, and the stink of burned flesh making you want to throw up.   It isn't anything glorious or fun, and even being shot ONCE can take you out of the action for a long time.</p><p>So, emotional depth does not mean that games NEED to be about that, but games that are more realistic about how it would be to be in some of these situations are what is missing.   Cut scenes can generally be skipped for those who don't care about them, but there are a good number of people that WANT that movie experience in a game.   Games have the ability to REPLACE movies for storyline, as long as people understand that the same way you may prefer action movies, others may prefer a comedy, romance, or drama.   Don't try to force your tastes on the world by saying that most PEOPLE love the types of things you do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The fact that most games have very little depth does not mean that games should not be developed that DO branch out .
Those who are younger tend to prefer the more action based games , but those who are older look for more than shooters and non-stop action .
Now , I am NOT talking about games where you play someone sitting at home chatting with the family or anything like that , but at the same time , do all games need to have the player control loners , soldiers , ex-soldiers , mercenaries , gang-bangers , and others who might be prone to violence in the first place ?
Do all the women in games need to be sluts , whores , or female versions of the main character who are similar to the main character to the point where they too are military/mercenary types with the idea that violence should be the first way to deal with every situation ? What really is different is that many people feel that violence may be necessary in some situations , but is something to be avoided for the most part .
One thing that really marks games like Mass Effect as being different from the majority of games is the chance to avoid having the main character be someone who is ruthless , or just an asshole with a mission the game forces you to play through .
Yes , there is violence , but you do n't HAVE to kill everyone , and even when tempted , you do n't have to give in to temptation .
The idea of having someone to come home to , and not really wanting to be out there fighting all the time is missing.Now , for those who do n't know , many , or even most people who go to war really do n't want to be there on the front lines .
Even those who initially want to go to war will often find that they hate being stationed far from home in an uncomfortable environment far from friends , family , and kids .
They want to get back home as soon as they can and get out of the hell hole that most war zones are .
And that element is what you see missing from most games , the fact that it seems exciting to be out there , until you see a friend killed in an explosion with you barely avoiding the majority of the blast , and the stink of burned flesh making you want to throw up .
It is n't anything glorious or fun , and even being shot ONCE can take you out of the action for a long time.So , emotional depth does not mean that games NEED to be about that , but games that are more realistic about how it would be to be in some of these situations are what is missing .
Cut scenes can generally be skipped for those who do n't care about them , but there are a good number of people that WANT that movie experience in a game .
Games have the ability to REPLACE movies for storyline , as long as people understand that the same way you may prefer action movies , others may prefer a comedy , romance , or drama .
Do n't try to force your tastes on the world by saying that most PEOPLE love the types of things you do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fact that most games have very little depth does not mean that games should not be developed that DO branch out.
Those who are younger tend to prefer the more action based games, but those who are older look for more than shooters and non-stop action.
Now, I am NOT talking about games where you play someone sitting at home chatting with the family or anything like that, but at the same time, do all games need to have the player control loners, soldiers, ex-soldiers, mercenaries, gang-bangers, and others who might be prone to violence in the first place?
Do all the women in games need to be sluts, whores, or female versions of the main character who are similar to the main character to the point where they too are military/mercenary types with the idea that violence should be the first way to deal with every situation?What really is different is that many people feel that violence may be necessary in some situations, but is something to be avoided for the most part.
One thing that really marks games like Mass Effect as being different from the majority of games is the chance to avoid having the main character be someone who is ruthless, or just an asshole with a mission the game forces you to play through.
Yes, there is violence, but you don't HAVE to kill everyone, and even when tempted, you don't have to give in to temptation.
The idea of having someone to come home to, and not really wanting to be out there fighting all the time is missing.Now, for those who don't know, many, or even most people who go to war really don't want to be there on the front lines.
Even those who initially want to go to war will often find that they hate being stationed far from home in an uncomfortable environment far from friends, family, and kids.
They want to get back home as soon as they can and get out of the hell hole that most war zones are.
And that element is what you see missing from most games, the fact that it seems exciting to be out there, until you see a friend killed in an explosion with you barely avoiding the majority of the blast, and the stink of burned flesh making you want to throw up.
It isn't anything glorious or fun, and even being shot ONCE can take you out of the action for a long time.So, emotional depth does not mean that games NEED to be about that, but games that are more realistic about how it would be to be in some of these situations are what is missing.
Cut scenes can generally be skipped for those who don't care about them, but there are a good number of people that WANT that movie experience in a game.
Games have the ability to REPLACE movies for storyline, as long as people understand that the same way you may prefer action movies, others may prefer a comedy, romance, or drama.
Don't try to force your tastes on the world by saying that most PEOPLE love the types of things you do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255072</id>
	<title>the game</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266942840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you just lost it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you just lost it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you just lost it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255338</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>Low Ranked Craig</author>
	<datestamp>1266944880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm 42 and I like to play the same stuff as the teenagers and the twenty-somethings.  Fun is fun.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm 42 and I like to play the same stuff as the teenagers and the twenty-somethings .
Fun is fun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm 42 and I like to play the same stuff as the teenagers and the twenty-somethings.
Fun is fun.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255132</id>
	<title>Sure is viral in here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266943320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously. This sounds like nothing but a stealth advertisement for Heavy Rain. Yay it came out today! Just say so and be done with it instead of trying to sneak it in with this self-important navel-gazing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously .
This sounds like nothing but a stealth advertisement for Heavy Rain .
Yay it came out today !
Just say so and be done with it instead of trying to sneak it in with this self-important navel-gazing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously.
This sounds like nothing but a stealth advertisement for Heavy Rain.
Yay it came out today!
Just say so and be done with it instead of trying to sneak it in with this self-important navel-gazing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255204</id>
	<title>So....</title>
	<author>fyrie</author>
	<datestamp>1266943920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So.... It's time for text adventures / IF to come back?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So.... It 's time for text adventures / IF to come back ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So.... It's time for text adventures / IF to come back?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255286</id>
	<title>Time pressure and expected content</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266944460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The difference between adult gamers and younger gamers is partly a factor of time pressure, and partly a factor of content.</p><p>The time pressure element is obvious.  Aside from a typical work schedule for an adult taking more hours then going to school, an adult has more demands on their time.  A 14 year boy old does not have much beyond school and some minor chores.  A 24 year man old has a work day, probably has a girlfriend, and possibly has children, in addition to some amount of chores and errands.  As much as the 24 year old may want to pull a 6 hour world of warcraft marathon, he probably has to make sure he has groceries, that the bills are paid.  While holding onto the girlfriend is optional, it probably takes precedence over the games.  The same applies to children.  On top of that, the adult potentially has the money to do other activities (ie, going out to a bar, going to a rock concert, hockey game, going skydiving) that may also take precedence over video games.</p><p>The content factor is trickier.  The 14 year old and the 24 year old will have a great deal of overlap for what they like in general terms.  The only difference is that as the 24 year old has less time to waste, the content must be of a generally higher quality.  Having mature themes is probably going to be the difference here if it is done right.  The 24 year old wont play a game just because it has "hot horny nympho sex and buckets of blood".  While that is still pretty sweet, it lacks the novelty value it has for the 14 year old.  Having moral shades of grey, believable characters, and solid writing will help.</p><p>But gameplay is still king.  Nintendo has pretty much proven beyond all doubt that if you can deliver good gameplay (Mario kart, wii sports, Mario Galaxy), you can hit the mark pretty solidly.</p><p>END COMMUNICATION</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The difference between adult gamers and younger gamers is partly a factor of time pressure , and partly a factor of content.The time pressure element is obvious .
Aside from a typical work schedule for an adult taking more hours then going to school , an adult has more demands on their time .
A 14 year boy old does not have much beyond school and some minor chores .
A 24 year man old has a work day , probably has a girlfriend , and possibly has children , in addition to some amount of chores and errands .
As much as the 24 year old may want to pull a 6 hour world of warcraft marathon , he probably has to make sure he has groceries , that the bills are paid .
While holding onto the girlfriend is optional , it probably takes precedence over the games .
The same applies to children .
On top of that , the adult potentially has the money to do other activities ( ie , going out to a bar , going to a rock concert , hockey game , going skydiving ) that may also take precedence over video games.The content factor is trickier .
The 14 year old and the 24 year old will have a great deal of overlap for what they like in general terms .
The only difference is that as the 24 year old has less time to waste , the content must be of a generally higher quality .
Having mature themes is probably going to be the difference here if it is done right .
The 24 year old wont play a game just because it has " hot horny nympho sex and buckets of blood " .
While that is still pretty sweet , it lacks the novelty value it has for the 14 year old .
Having moral shades of grey , believable characters , and solid writing will help.But gameplay is still king .
Nintendo has pretty much proven beyond all doubt that if you can deliver good gameplay ( Mario kart , wii sports , Mario Galaxy ) , you can hit the mark pretty solidly.END COMMUNICATION</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The difference between adult gamers and younger gamers is partly a factor of time pressure, and partly a factor of content.The time pressure element is obvious.
Aside from a typical work schedule for an adult taking more hours then going to school, an adult has more demands on their time.
A 14 year boy old does not have much beyond school and some minor chores.
A 24 year man old has a work day, probably has a girlfriend, and possibly has children, in addition to some amount of chores and errands.
As much as the 24 year old may want to pull a 6 hour world of warcraft marathon, he probably has to make sure he has groceries, that the bills are paid.
While holding onto the girlfriend is optional, it probably takes precedence over the games.
The same applies to children.
On top of that, the adult potentially has the money to do other activities (ie, going out to a bar, going to a rock concert, hockey game, going skydiving) that may also take precedence over video games.The content factor is trickier.
The 14 year old and the 24 year old will have a great deal of overlap for what they like in general terms.
The only difference is that as the 24 year old has less time to waste, the content must be of a generally higher quality.
Having mature themes is probably going to be the difference here if it is done right.
The 24 year old wont play a game just because it has "hot horny nympho sex and buckets of blood".
While that is still pretty sweet, it lacks the novelty value it has for the 14 year old.
Having moral shades of grey, believable characters, and solid writing will help.But gameplay is still king.
Nintendo has pretty much proven beyond all doubt that if you can deliver good gameplay (Mario kart, wii sports, Mario Galaxy), you can hit the mark pretty solidly.END COMMUNICATION</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31258300</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>TheLink</author>
	<datestamp>1265120400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The last I checked lots of adults play stuff like bejeweled, minesweeper, solitaire, sudoku, farmville. That sort of stuff.<br><br>I don't think the majority of adults want to play games with so much "real emotional depth" or "lots of sex and violence".<br><br>The evidence is they don't want those sort of games.<br><br>Similarly, it's only a small percentage of moviegoers who go for movies with "real emotional depth" or movies with "lots of explicit sex and violence". The rest go for stuff like Avatar, Titanic, Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Carribean.<br><br>The gamemakers and moviemakers seem to like to make lots of stuff that people don't want that much, and then blame "the pirates" for poor sales.<br><br>Either they are really out of touch with their audience, or they have some other agenda.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The last I checked lots of adults play stuff like bejeweled , minesweeper , solitaire , sudoku , farmville .
That sort of stuff.I do n't think the majority of adults want to play games with so much " real emotional depth " or " lots of sex and violence " .The evidence is they do n't want those sort of games.Similarly , it 's only a small percentage of moviegoers who go for movies with " real emotional depth " or movies with " lots of explicit sex and violence " .
The rest go for stuff like Avatar , Titanic , Lord of the Rings , Pirates of the Carribean.The gamemakers and moviemakers seem to like to make lots of stuff that people do n't want that much , and then blame " the pirates " for poor sales.Either they are really out of touch with their audience , or they have some other agenda .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The last I checked lots of adults play stuff like bejeweled, minesweeper, solitaire, sudoku, farmville.
That sort of stuff.I don't think the majority of adults want to play games with so much "real emotional depth" or "lots of sex and violence".The evidence is they don't want those sort of games.Similarly, it's only a small percentage of moviegoers who go for movies with "real emotional depth" or movies with "lots of explicit sex and violence".
The rest go for stuff like Avatar, Titanic, Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Carribean.The gamemakers and moviemakers seem to like to make lots of stuff that people don't want that much, and then blame "the pirates" for poor sales.Either they are really out of touch with their audience, or they have some other agenda.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31259668</id>
	<title>Re:the game</title>
	<author>Eggbloke</author>
	<datestamp>1265127960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mod me down but the rules demand it. <br> <br>
I lost The Game</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod me down but the rules demand it .
I lost The Game</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod me down but the rules demand it.
I lost The Game</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255072</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255828</id>
	<title>Re:Time pressure and expected content</title>
	<author>DigiShaman</author>
	<datestamp>1266949680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Another factor is the economic we are all in. If you're out of a job, your either looking or too broke to be purchasing new games. If your employed however (like I am), expect to be bled to to death with 60+ hour work weeks to make up the loss of ex-employee help previously available.</p><p>For those living in a happy-medium. I truly envy you!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Another factor is the economic we are all in .
If you 're out of a job , your either looking or too broke to be purchasing new games .
If your employed however ( like I am ) , expect to be bled to to death with 60 + hour work weeks to make up the loss of ex-employee help previously available.For those living in a happy-medium .
I truly envy you !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another factor is the economic we are all in.
If you're out of a job, your either looking or too broke to be purchasing new games.
If your employed however (like I am), expect to be bled to to death with 60+ hour work weeks to make up the loss of ex-employee help previously available.For those living in a happy-medium.
I truly envy you!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255252</id>
	<title>Perhaps he played too many games</title>
	<author>jaymz666</author>
	<datestamp>1266944280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Looks like he skipped spelling and grammar.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Looks like he skipped spelling and grammar .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looks like he skipped spelling and grammar.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31257988</id>
	<title>Planescape Torment, hands down</title>
	<author>Aero</author>
	<datestamp>1265117160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure, it had some D&amp;D-obligated women in skimpy clothing, but everything else that made it good was clearly targeting a mature audience:</p><p>- 100,000+ words of text to tell the story -- sure, kids read books like that these days, but at a video game's pace? Not so much.<br>- Your character could do almost anything to anyone purely out of self-interest, and most of it wasn't physical. If you didn't manipulate a particular someone to your own ends over the course of the game, you probably didn't talk to them at all. Like in the first Fallout, you could talk the final boss to death if your stats were high enough.<br>- The best way to build up your companions' strengths was to help them explore their pasts and personalities.<br>- You never actually find out what it is that you did to curse yourself with immortality...but it was so heinous that your continued existence is threatening the fabric of the universe. Just try to imagine what it might have been. Go on, I'll wait.</p><p>Modern games, though, are getting into "show, don't tell".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , it had some D&amp;D-obligated women in skimpy clothing , but everything else that made it good was clearly targeting a mature audience : - 100,000 + words of text to tell the story -- sure , kids read books like that these days , but at a video game 's pace ?
Not so much.- Your character could do almost anything to anyone purely out of self-interest , and most of it was n't physical .
If you did n't manipulate a particular someone to your own ends over the course of the game , you probably did n't talk to them at all .
Like in the first Fallout , you could talk the final boss to death if your stats were high enough.- The best way to build up your companions ' strengths was to help them explore their pasts and personalities.- You never actually find out what it is that you did to curse yourself with immortality...but it was so heinous that your continued existence is threatening the fabric of the universe .
Just try to imagine what it might have been .
Go on , I 'll wait.Modern games , though , are getting into " show , do n't tell " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, it had some D&amp;D-obligated women in skimpy clothing, but everything else that made it good was clearly targeting a mature audience:- 100,000+ words of text to tell the story -- sure, kids read books like that these days, but at a video game's pace?
Not so much.- Your character could do almost anything to anyone purely out of self-interest, and most of it wasn't physical.
If you didn't manipulate a particular someone to your own ends over the course of the game, you probably didn't talk to them at all.
Like in the first Fallout, you could talk the final boss to death if your stats were high enough.- The best way to build up your companions' strengths was to help them explore their pasts and personalities.- You never actually find out what it is that you did to curse yourself with immortality...but it was so heinous that your continued existence is threatening the fabric of the universe.
Just try to imagine what it might have been.
Go on, I'll wait.Modern games, though, are getting into "show, don't tell".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31257608</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>tsa</author>
	<datestamp>1265112780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try an <a href="http://www.adventuregamers.com/" title="adventuregamers.com">adventure</a> [adventuregamers.com] <a href="http://www.justadventure.com/" title="justadventure.com">game</a> [justadventure.com].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try an adventure [ adventuregamers.com ] game [ justadventure.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try an adventure [adventuregamers.com] game [justadventure.com].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256376</id>
	<title>Re:Heavy Rain anyone?</title>
	<author>blahplusplus</author>
	<datestamp>1265141160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm waiting to see sales, while people might SAY the y want "adult" games, the true test is - is the paying market big enough to support such games?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm waiting to see sales , while people might SAY the y want " adult " games , the true test is - is the paying market big enough to support such games ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm waiting to see sales, while people might SAY the y want "adult" games, the true test is - is the paying market big enough to support such games?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255202</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256008</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>xtracto</author>
	<datestamp>1266951420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>. Most 10 year olds aren't going to have the patience to watch all the FMVs and read the dialog in a game like Final Fantasy.</p></div><p>Howdy, good that you added a "Most" there! however, that is still a generalization.</p><p>The 10 year old in me begs to differ. I *learnt* a good chunk of the English language while playing Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy and Ninja Gaiden (all NES) reading the dialog in the game. Granted, the first 10 times I read it did not make sense, but after asking my parents and looking at dictionaries I learnt several words. And I was around 10 years old!</p><p>What is funny is that, as sibling poster (SammyF70) said, nowadays I get quickly bored by FMV games. I remember liking Metal Gear Solid for PSX, but after I tried to play MGS2 I just dropped it after the first 15 mintues of video and button pressing to continue.</p><p>The same thing happened to me with Zelda TWP Wii, really boring.</p><p>Nowadays I seem to need faster and more direct satisfaction. I enjoy racing, flight sim and such types of games because the premise is usually straightforward. I also enjoyed New SMB Wii because it has a minimal of story and is also quite straightforward (and I play it with my wife, making it double fun!).</p><p>I used to love RPGs, played a lot of that from Dragon Quest to Neverwinter Nights, and tabletop-RPGs as well. But nowadays I work from around 8 to 5:00 and when I play a game I want to get the most of it in the shortest time possible.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>.
Most 10 year olds are n't going to have the patience to watch all the FMVs and read the dialog in a game like Final Fantasy.Howdy , good that you added a " Most " there !
however , that is still a generalization.The 10 year old in me begs to differ .
I * learnt * a good chunk of the English language while playing Dragon Warrior , Final Fantasy and Ninja Gaiden ( all NES ) reading the dialog in the game .
Granted , the first 10 times I read it did not make sense , but after asking my parents and looking at dictionaries I learnt several words .
And I was around 10 years old ! What is funny is that , as sibling poster ( SammyF70 ) said , nowadays I get quickly bored by FMV games .
I remember liking Metal Gear Solid for PSX , but after I tried to play MGS2 I just dropped it after the first 15 mintues of video and button pressing to continue.The same thing happened to me with Zelda TWP Wii , really boring.Nowadays I seem to need faster and more direct satisfaction .
I enjoy racing , flight sim and such types of games because the premise is usually straightforward .
I also enjoyed New SMB Wii because it has a minimal of story and is also quite straightforward ( and I play it with my wife , making it double fun !
) .I used to love RPGs , played a lot of that from Dragon Quest to Neverwinter Nights , and tabletop-RPGs as well .
But nowadays I work from around 8 to 5 : 00 and when I play a game I want to get the most of it in the shortest time possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.
Most 10 year olds aren't going to have the patience to watch all the FMVs and read the dialog in a game like Final Fantasy.Howdy, good that you added a "Most" there!
however, that is still a generalization.The 10 year old in me begs to differ.
I *learnt* a good chunk of the English language while playing Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy and Ninja Gaiden (all NES) reading the dialog in the game.
Granted, the first 10 times I read it did not make sense, but after asking my parents and looking at dictionaries I learnt several words.
And I was around 10 years old!What is funny is that, as sibling poster (SammyF70) said, nowadays I get quickly bored by FMV games.
I remember liking Metal Gear Solid for PSX, but after I tried to play MGS2 I just dropped it after the first 15 mintues of video and button pressing to continue.The same thing happened to me with Zelda TWP Wii, really boring.Nowadays I seem to need faster and more direct satisfaction.
I enjoy racing, flight sim and such types of games because the premise is usually straightforward.
I also enjoyed New SMB Wii because it has a minimal of story and is also quite straightforward (and I play it with my wife, making it double fun!
).I used to love RPGs, played a lot of that from Dragon Quest to Neverwinter Nights, and tabletop-RPGs as well.
But nowadays I work from around 8 to 5:00 and when I play a game I want to get the most of it in the shortest time possible.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31257430</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>Obel</author>
	<datestamp>1265110620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Interesting you note Lost Odyssey, I left a comment on that webpage anyway but I'll post it below as I highlight LO as a game I think failed to tell its story, which could have been so much more. Apologies for its length.</p><p>"Nice article, I frequently wonder why games these days claim to have a deep, immersive story, but all they mean is they drag on a long time and sometimes a character will die. There&rsquo;s a lack of research into why characters act the way they do and in a way I think it&rsquo;s the smaller things that make a character special.</p><p>Take for example a game I&rsquo;ve been playing through lately: Lost Odyssey. I looked forward to this game greatly through its development as it claimed to have a really emotional storyline, it was literally described as a game that would make you cry (and cowritten by a popular Japanese novelist). What I found is that all they meant is some scenes would feature extremely forced emotions, like how the characters tend to cry a lot. Specifically a scene in the early section of a game where you meet a couple of kids, save their lives, then they take you home and it turns out their mother is the main characters daughter he thought was dead and everybody cries a lot when she dies of some mysterious illness and as a player you&rsquo;re sitting there thinking &ldquo;oh kay.&rdquo;.</p><p>In a storytelling perspective Lost Odyssey fails in another way, in determining who the bad guy is and what makes him evil. For the benefit of those who haven&rsquo;t played it before I&rsquo;ll sum it up now: He has an evil goatee, audacious clothing and laughs when bad things happen to innocent people. You know, like all the real life villains. It would be equally appropriate if he walked around with a t-shirt on simply saying &ldquo;Bad Guy&rdquo;.<br>This isn&rsquo;t criticism unique to Lost Odyssey though, lots of games suffer from a similar analysis into the characters.</p><p>Going back to what I was saying about the smaller things that makes a character special, I want to draw reference to some of the events in film and TV that make me smile the most. There&rsquo;s this bit in the first episode of Twin Peaks when Cooper is about to do an examination of a corpse and he asks the assistant to turn the light off, in real life the actor misheard and thought he was asked what his name was, to which he replied &ldquo;Larry&rdquo;. Not breaking character, Kyle MacLachlan once again asked him if he could turn the light off, to which the other actor awkwardly obliged.</p><p>It&rsquo;s this really awkward moment which is given so much humanity because of a slight slip up! It&rsquo;s little things like this that make characters seem more human and sympathetic at times which you literally NEVER see in games these days. If I wrote a game I would ensure the characters sometimes trip over their words, get things wrong sometimes, lie.. Actually, just make mistakes in general, because it&rsquo;s the most human trait I can think of!</p><p>One more short example before I wrap up this overly long comment. There&rsquo;s a cult comedy that I&rsquo;m sure many are aware and fond of: The Big Lebowski. Some people don&rsquo;t get the humour in this film, but the reason why others are so in love with it is because of the characters that are built up and the language they use, which was an absolute master stroke of writing by the Coen brothers. The Dude struggles to get a straight, clean sentence out of his mouth most of the time. He&rsquo;s always umming and ahhing and stealing quotes from other people and things he has heard on the TV, every um and ah of which was written into the script, not adlibbed by Jeff Bridges. It&rsquo;s all these &ldquo;flaws&rdquo; I guess you&rsquo;d call it which I believe makes a character more charming.</p><p>Maybe it would be better for game story writers to not write a beginning, middle and end? Perhaps it would be better to establish a world, then write the characters and REALLY flesh them out, then write the beginning to the story and see how these human characters react to the story. Maybe, just MAYBE they&rsquo;ll end up in a much more interesting scenario.</p><p>But what do I know? I&rsquo;m no writer."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Interesting you note Lost Odyssey , I left a comment on that webpage anyway but I 'll post it below as I highlight LO as a game I think failed to tell its story , which could have been so much more .
Apologies for its length .
" Nice article , I frequently wonder why games these days claim to have a deep , immersive story , but all they mean is they drag on a long time and sometimes a character will die .
There    s a lack of research into why characters act the way they do and in a way I think it    s the smaller things that make a character special.Take for example a game I    ve been playing through lately : Lost Odyssey .
I looked forward to this game greatly through its development as it claimed to have a really emotional storyline , it was literally described as a game that would make you cry ( and cowritten by a popular Japanese novelist ) .
What I found is that all they meant is some scenes would feature extremely forced emotions , like how the characters tend to cry a lot .
Specifically a scene in the early section of a game where you meet a couple of kids , save their lives , then they take you home and it turns out their mother is the main characters daughter he thought was dead and everybody cries a lot when she dies of some mysterious illness and as a player you    re sitting there thinking    oh kay.    .In a storytelling perspective Lost Odyssey fails in another way , in determining who the bad guy is and what makes him evil .
For the benefit of those who haven    t played it before I    ll sum it up now : He has an evil goatee , audacious clothing and laughs when bad things happen to innocent people .
You know , like all the real life villains .
It would be equally appropriate if he walked around with a t-shirt on simply saying    Bad Guy    .This isn    t criticism unique to Lost Odyssey though , lots of games suffer from a similar analysis into the characters.Going back to what I was saying about the smaller things that makes a character special , I want to draw reference to some of the events in film and TV that make me smile the most .
There    s this bit in the first episode of Twin Peaks when Cooper is about to do an examination of a corpse and he asks the assistant to turn the light off , in real life the actor misheard and thought he was asked what his name was , to which he replied    Larry    .
Not breaking character , Kyle MacLachlan once again asked him if he could turn the light off , to which the other actor awkwardly obliged.It    s this really awkward moment which is given so much humanity because of a slight slip up !
It    s little things like this that make characters seem more human and sympathetic at times which you literally NEVER see in games these days .
If I wrote a game I would ensure the characters sometimes trip over their words , get things wrong sometimes , lie.. Actually , just make mistakes in general , because it    s the most human trait I can think of ! One more short example before I wrap up this overly long comment .
There    s a cult comedy that I    m sure many are aware and fond of : The Big Lebowski .
Some people don    t get the humour in this film , but the reason why others are so in love with it is because of the characters that are built up and the language they use , which was an absolute master stroke of writing by the Coen brothers .
The Dude struggles to get a straight , clean sentence out of his mouth most of the time .
He    s always umming and ahhing and stealing quotes from other people and things he has heard on the TV , every um and ah of which was written into the script , not adlibbed by Jeff Bridges .
It    s all these    flaws    I guess you    d call it which I believe makes a character more charming.Maybe it would be better for game story writers to not write a beginning , middle and end ?
Perhaps it would be better to establish a world , then write the characters and REALLY flesh them out , then write the beginning to the story and see how these human characters react to the story .
Maybe , just MAYBE they    ll end up in a much more interesting scenario.But what do I know ?
I    m no writer .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Interesting you note Lost Odyssey, I left a comment on that webpage anyway but I'll post it below as I highlight LO as a game I think failed to tell its story, which could have been so much more.
Apologies for its length.
"Nice article, I frequently wonder why games these days claim to have a deep, immersive story, but all they mean is they drag on a long time and sometimes a character will die.
There’s a lack of research into why characters act the way they do and in a way I think it’s the smaller things that make a character special.Take for example a game I’ve been playing through lately: Lost Odyssey.
I looked forward to this game greatly through its development as it claimed to have a really emotional storyline, it was literally described as a game that would make you cry (and cowritten by a popular Japanese novelist).
What I found is that all they meant is some scenes would feature extremely forced emotions, like how the characters tend to cry a lot.
Specifically a scene in the early section of a game where you meet a couple of kids, save their lives, then they take you home and it turns out their mother is the main characters daughter he thought was dead and everybody cries a lot when she dies of some mysterious illness and as a player you’re sitting there thinking “oh kay.”.In a storytelling perspective Lost Odyssey fails in another way, in determining who the bad guy is and what makes him evil.
For the benefit of those who haven’t played it before I’ll sum it up now: He has an evil goatee, audacious clothing and laughs when bad things happen to innocent people.
You know, like all the real life villains.
It would be equally appropriate if he walked around with a t-shirt on simply saying “Bad Guy”.This isn’t criticism unique to Lost Odyssey though, lots of games suffer from a similar analysis into the characters.Going back to what I was saying about the smaller things that makes a character special, I want to draw reference to some of the events in film and TV that make me smile the most.
There’s this bit in the first episode of Twin Peaks when Cooper is about to do an examination of a corpse and he asks the assistant to turn the light off, in real life the actor misheard and thought he was asked what his name was, to which he replied “Larry”.
Not breaking character, Kyle MacLachlan once again asked him if he could turn the light off, to which the other actor awkwardly obliged.It’s this really awkward moment which is given so much humanity because of a slight slip up!
It’s little things like this that make characters seem more human and sympathetic at times which you literally NEVER see in games these days.
If I wrote a game I would ensure the characters sometimes trip over their words, get things wrong sometimes, lie.. Actually, just make mistakes in general, because it’s the most human trait I can think of!One more short example before I wrap up this overly long comment.
There’s a cult comedy that I’m sure many are aware and fond of: The Big Lebowski.
Some people don’t get the humour in this film, but the reason why others are so in love with it is because of the characters that are built up and the language they use, which was an absolute master stroke of writing by the Coen brothers.
The Dude struggles to get a straight, clean sentence out of his mouth most of the time.
He’s always umming and ahhing and stealing quotes from other people and things he has heard on the TV, every um and ah of which was written into the script, not adlibbed by Jeff Bridges.
It’s all these “flaws” I guess you’d call it which I believe makes a character more charming.Maybe it would be better for game story writers to not write a beginning, middle and end?
Perhaps it would be better to establish a world, then write the characters and REALLY flesh them out, then write the beginning to the story and see how these human characters react to the story.
Maybe, just MAYBE they’ll end up in a much more interesting scenario.But what do I know?
I’m no writer.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255180</id>
	<title>Hmm</title>
	<author>girlintraining</author>
	<datestamp>1266943740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It doesn't take a thousand swear words, scantily clad women or gratuitous violence to differentiate a ten-year-old's game from a twenty-year-old's.</p> </div><p>No, but it helps.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It does n't take a thousand swear words , scantily clad women or gratuitous violence to differentiate a ten-year-old 's game from a twenty-year-old 's .
No , but it helps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It doesn't take a thousand swear words, scantily clad women or gratuitous violence to differentiate a ten-year-old's game from a twenty-year-old's.
No, but it helps.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255202</id>
	<title>Heavy Rain anyone?</title>
	<author>Retardical\_Sam</author>
	<datestamp>1266943920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This on the day that Heavy Rain is released.  Preliminary reviews seem to say that it's much more adult-oriented, and not just in terms of the things that cause more adult ratings.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This on the day that Heavy Rain is released .
Preliminary reviews seem to say that it 's much more adult-oriented , and not just in terms of the things that cause more adult ratings .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This on the day that Heavy Rain is released.
Preliminary reviews seem to say that it's much more adult-oriented, and not just in terms of the things that cause more adult ratings.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31257294</id>
	<title>Re:Heavy Rain anyone?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265109180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ooh, what an a-mazing coincidence.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ooh , what an a-mazing coincidence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ooh, what an a-mazing coincidence.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255202</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255374</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>Is0m0rph</author>
	<datestamp>1266945180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm 40 and the game is Modern Warfare 2.  There's a million puzzle games if you are 40 and want to act 60!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm 40 and the game is Modern Warfare 2 .
There 's a million puzzle games if you are 40 and want to act 60 !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm 40 and the game is Modern Warfare 2.
There's a million puzzle games if you are 40 and want to act 60!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31257794</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>MasterPatricko</author>
	<datestamp>1265115000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree that "Grown-up" games aren't the ones with "M" on the cover.</p><p>But I think you confuse storytelling (which is great, but only if you identify with the story, otherwise its boring as hell) with games that try to convey a meaning or provoke thought (which is what I would call a deep game).</p><p>I think there have been some very good "deep" games, or games where the interpretation of the story is left up to the player. Some recent (including to a certain extent successful games like Portal, Braid, World of Goo) have been compact enough to fit into a busy adult life, and while a kid could certainly play them, a lot of the subtleties would be lost on them. That is my definition of "grown-up" game.</p><p>Depth is not about whether you're left weeping because some main character has died. It's about whether it makes you think about what the message of the game is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree that " Grown-up " games are n't the ones with " M " on the cover.But I think you confuse storytelling ( which is great , but only if you identify with the story , otherwise its boring as hell ) with games that try to convey a meaning or provoke thought ( which is what I would call a deep game ) .I think there have been some very good " deep " games , or games where the interpretation of the story is left up to the player .
Some recent ( including to a certain extent successful games like Portal , Braid , World of Goo ) have been compact enough to fit into a busy adult life , and while a kid could certainly play them , a lot of the subtleties would be lost on them .
That is my definition of " grown-up " game.Depth is not about whether you 're left weeping because some main character has died .
It 's about whether it makes you think about what the message of the game is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree that "Grown-up" games aren't the ones with "M" on the cover.But I think you confuse storytelling (which is great, but only if you identify with the story, otherwise its boring as hell) with games that try to convey a meaning or provoke thought (which is what I would call a deep game).I think there have been some very good "deep" games, or games where the interpretation of the story is left up to the player.
Some recent (including to a certain extent successful games like Portal, Braid, World of Goo) have been compact enough to fit into a busy adult life, and while a kid could certainly play them, a lot of the subtleties would be lost on them.
That is my definition of "grown-up" game.Depth is not about whether you're left weeping because some main character has died.
It's about whether it makes you think about what the message of the game is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255826</id>
	<title>Re:Time pressure and expected content</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266949620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I dunno about you guys, but when I was in Highschool, I was also working (often going to work the minute the school bell rang), and participated in tons of extracurriculars (band, *sigh*). When I did play videogames, I'd have to save up for a long time to buy a single one. Then college came, and I started taking 19 hours a semester, mind you still working part time or other times FULL TIME to support myself through college. Plus I had even less money for videogames in college.
<br> <br>
Now the only thing taking up my time is my job, which I actually LIKE, instead of school, which just stressed me out most of the time. Also, because I'm an adult, I've got SOOOO much more disposable income, I own every console (which was something I couldn't DREAM of as a kid) and buy games all the time.
<br> <br>
Sorry, but my life (and that of most 20-somethings I know) is completely the opposite of what you said.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I dunno about you guys , but when I was in Highschool , I was also working ( often going to work the minute the school bell rang ) , and participated in tons of extracurriculars ( band , * sigh * ) .
When I did play videogames , I 'd have to save up for a long time to buy a single one .
Then college came , and I started taking 19 hours a semester , mind you still working part time or other times FULL TIME to support myself through college .
Plus I had even less money for videogames in college .
Now the only thing taking up my time is my job , which I actually LIKE , instead of school , which just stressed me out most of the time .
Also , because I 'm an adult , I 've got SOOOO much more disposable income , I own every console ( which was something I could n't DREAM of as a kid ) and buy games all the time .
Sorry , but my life ( and that of most 20-somethings I know ) is completely the opposite of what you said .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I dunno about you guys, but when I was in Highschool, I was also working (often going to work the minute the school bell rang), and participated in tons of extracurriculars (band, *sigh*).
When I did play videogames, I'd have to save up for a long time to buy a single one.
Then college came, and I started taking 19 hours a semester, mind you still working part time or other times FULL TIME to support myself through college.
Plus I had even less money for videogames in college.
Now the only thing taking up my time is my job, which I actually LIKE, instead of school, which just stressed me out most of the time.
Also, because I'm an adult, I've got SOOOO much more disposable income, I own every console (which was something I couldn't DREAM of as a kid) and buy games all the time.
Sorry, but my life (and that of most 20-somethings I know) is completely the opposite of what you said.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</id>
	<title>10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266943020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>How about games for 40 year olds?  No, not Pac-man and Pole Position, but games adults can play and enjoy now.  Apologies to the middle aged that play FPS and others of the new genre, but there is a market for less intensive product.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about games for 40 year olds ?
No , not Pac-man and Pole Position , but games adults can play and enjoy now .
Apologies to the middle aged that play FPS and others of the new genre , but there is a market for less intensive product .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about games for 40 year olds?
No, not Pac-man and Pole Position, but games adults can play and enjoy now.
Apologies to the middle aged that play FPS and others of the new genre, but there is a market for less intensive product.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256572</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>Eivind</author>
	<datestamp>1265143440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sort of. There -is- a lot of graphics and story in Final Fantasy, but it's fundamentally, stories for kids, or at best teenagers. Children enjoy stories, as do many adults, but the stories tend to be DIFFERENT, and the stories in Final Fantasy, tend to be essentially fairytales.</p><p>You'll get young (typically 10-15 year old) characters, struggling with things like the relationship to their parents, their first love and daring to actually express same, clumsy misunderstandings, coming to terms with being responsible for oneself etc.</p><p>If you contrast, for example, the Romance in FF-10 with say the potential romance between Morrigan and the main-character in Dragon Age Origins, you can't help but conclude that the latter is more mature. Not primarily because there's sex (there is, but it's not the main focus), but also because the characters behave like, you know, ADULTS with adult issues, stuff you'd NEVER see in Final Fantasy.</p><p>FF is fine, but it's ultimately a fairytale for children.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sort of .
There -is- a lot of graphics and story in Final Fantasy , but it 's fundamentally , stories for kids , or at best teenagers .
Children enjoy stories , as do many adults , but the stories tend to be DIFFERENT , and the stories in Final Fantasy , tend to be essentially fairytales.You 'll get young ( typically 10-15 year old ) characters , struggling with things like the relationship to their parents , their first love and daring to actually express same , clumsy misunderstandings , coming to terms with being responsible for oneself etc.If you contrast , for example , the Romance in FF-10 with say the potential romance between Morrigan and the main-character in Dragon Age Origins , you ca n't help but conclude that the latter is more mature .
Not primarily because there 's sex ( there is , but it 's not the main focus ) , but also because the characters behave like , you know , ADULTS with adult issues , stuff you 'd NEVER see in Final Fantasy.FF is fine , but it 's ultimately a fairytale for children .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sort of.
There -is- a lot of graphics and story in Final Fantasy, but it's fundamentally, stories for kids, or at best teenagers.
Children enjoy stories, as do many adults, but the stories tend to be DIFFERENT, and the stories in Final Fantasy, tend to be essentially fairytales.You'll get young (typically 10-15 year old) characters, struggling with things like the relationship to their parents, their first love and daring to actually express same, clumsy misunderstandings, coming to terms with being responsible for oneself etc.If you contrast, for example, the Romance in FF-10 with say the potential romance between Morrigan and the main-character in Dragon Age Origins, you can't help but conclude that the latter is more mature.
Not primarily because there's sex (there is, but it's not the main focus), but also because the characters behave like, you know, ADULTS with adult issues, stuff you'd NEVER see in Final Fantasy.FF is fine, but it's ultimately a fairytale for children.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31271712</id>
	<title>Czarspeed</title>
	<author>czarspeed</author>
	<datestamp>1267111200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>MMO's do need to have over 18 servers. I can get pretty vulgar and I do not want to corrupt a young mind. However, I do want to have fun and play the way I want to.</htmltext>
<tokenext>MMO 's do need to have over 18 servers .
I can get pretty vulgar and I do not want to corrupt a young mind .
However , I do want to have fun and play the way I want to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MMO's do need to have over 18 servers.
I can get pretty vulgar and I do not want to corrupt a young mind.
However, I do want to have fun and play the way I want to.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31258408</id>
	<title>Re:the game</title>
	<author>dkleinsc</author>
	<datestamp>1265121060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But which game? I'm about to win (in a few more words) Mornington Crescent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But which game ?
I 'm about to win ( in a few more words ) Mornington Crescent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But which game?
I'm about to win (in a few more words) Mornington Crescent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255246</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256262</id>
	<title>Re:For some...</title>
	<author>precariousgray</author>
	<datestamp>1266954480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've always wondered how lunatic nutjobs like that fellow come into power, or at least popularity.  It doesn't make any sense to me.  So far as I can tell, it encompasses only screaming insensibly, whilst simultaneously flailing ones appendages in a delirious fashion.<br> <br>Those things, I wish I were good at them.  Then I could be influential, too.  Perhaps some day, in dreams...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've always wondered how lunatic nutjobs like that fellow come into power , or at least popularity .
It does n't make any sense to me .
So far as I can tell , it encompasses only screaming insensibly , whilst simultaneously flailing ones appendages in a delirious fashion .
Those things , I wish I were good at them .
Then I could be influential , too .
Perhaps some day , in dreams.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've always wondered how lunatic nutjobs like that fellow come into power, or at least popularity.
It doesn't make any sense to me.
So far as I can tell, it encompasses only screaming insensibly, whilst simultaneously flailing ones appendages in a delirious fashion.
Those things, I wish I were good at them.
Then I could be influential, too.
Perhaps some day, in dreams...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255438</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256416</id>
	<title>The Stock Market</title>
	<author>ntufar</author>
	<datestamp>1265141940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not on topic but I'd want to mention the stock market as a good game for adults. I played computer games in my teens and twenties but now, in my thirties I find them quite boring, predictable and repetitive.
<br> <br>
For three years now I picked up a new hobby: stock market. I watch CNBC, I read business newspapers, i follow a ton of finance blogs, I think, I make hard decisions, I put my money at risk, I master my impulses and emotions. I throughly enjoy it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not on topic but I 'd want to mention the stock market as a good game for adults .
I played computer games in my teens and twenties but now , in my thirties I find them quite boring , predictable and repetitive .
For three years now I picked up a new hobby : stock market .
I watch CNBC , I read business newspapers , i follow a ton of finance blogs , I think , I make hard decisions , I put my money at risk , I master my impulses and emotions .
I throughly enjoy it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not on topic but I'd want to mention the stock market as a good game for adults.
I played computer games in my teens and twenties but now, in my thirties I find them quite boring, predictable and repetitive.
For three years now I picked up a new hobby: stock market.
I watch CNBC, I read business newspapers, i follow a ton of finance blogs, I think, I make hard decisions, I put my money at risk, I master my impulses and emotions.
I throughly enjoy it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31258114</id>
	<title>!flamebait !astroturf</title>
	<author>vrmlguy</author>
	<datestamp>1265118540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who the hell tagged this story 'astroturf' and 'flamebait'?  It's neither.  Several different games are compared, and <i>Heaqvy Rain</i> is only mentioned once.  I'm submitting the opposite (see my subject line) and would urge everyone else to do so as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who the hell tagged this story 'astroturf ' and 'flamebait ' ?
It 's neither .
Several different games are compared , and Heaqvy Rain is only mentioned once .
I 'm submitting the opposite ( see my subject line ) and would urge everyone else to do so as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who the hell tagged this story 'astroturf' and 'flamebait'?
It's neither.
Several different games are compared, and Heaqvy Rain is only mentioned once.
I'm submitting the opposite (see my subject line) and would urge everyone else to do so as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256832</id>
	<title>Re:Time pressure and expected content</title>
	<author>Zaphod The 42nd</author>
	<datestamp>1265103540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have to add though, I like that you said<p><div class="quote"><p>The 24 year old wont play a game just because it has "hot horny nympho sex and buckets of blood". While that is still pretty sweet, it lacks the novelty value it has for the 14 year old.</p></div><p>People need to wake up and realize that when a kid sees blood or sex, it doesn't instantly destroy him. 99.999\% of the time, if his parents have already talked to him about everything, then he's just going to go, "blood, COOL!" or "boobies, COOL!"
<br> <br>
meanwhile, it is the ADULTS that want more out of games than just blood and sex.
<br>
SOOO many people who have never picked up a single videogame in their life are going on and on about videogame violence ruining kids and this and that, and don't understand M rated games...
<br> <br>
Hey guys, the average gamer is now like over 30! Go read the statistics. And leave our entertainment medium alone; it deserves the same respect as you've already given to books, tv, and film.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to add though , I like that you saidThe 24 year old wont play a game just because it has " hot horny nympho sex and buckets of blood " .
While that is still pretty sweet , it lacks the novelty value it has for the 14 year old.People need to wake up and realize that when a kid sees blood or sex , it does n't instantly destroy him .
99.999 \ % of the time , if his parents have already talked to him about everything , then he 's just going to go , " blood , COOL !
" or " boobies , COOL !
" meanwhile , it is the ADULTS that want more out of games than just blood and sex .
SOOO many people who have never picked up a single videogame in their life are going on and on about videogame violence ruining kids and this and that , and do n't understand M rated games.. . Hey guys , the average gamer is now like over 30 !
Go read the statistics .
And leave our entertainment medium alone ; it deserves the same respect as you 've already given to books , tv , and film .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to add though, I like that you saidThe 24 year old wont play a game just because it has "hot horny nympho sex and buckets of blood".
While that is still pretty sweet, it lacks the novelty value it has for the 14 year old.People need to wake up and realize that when a kid sees blood or sex, it doesn't instantly destroy him.
99.999\% of the time, if his parents have already talked to him about everything, then he's just going to go, "blood, COOL!
" or "boobies, COOL!
"
 
meanwhile, it is the ADULTS that want more out of games than just blood and sex.
SOOO many people who have never picked up a single videogame in their life are going on and on about videogame violence ruining kids and this and that, and don't understand M rated games...
 
Hey guys, the average gamer is now like over 30!
Go read the statistics.
And leave our entertainment medium alone; it deserves the same respect as you've already given to books, tv, and film.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31260084</id>
	<title>Re:Time pressure and expected content</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265129640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The difference between adult gamers and younger gamers is partly a factor of time pressure, and partly a factor of content.</p><p>The time pressure element is obvious.  Aside from a typical work schedule for an adult taking more hours then going to school, an adult has more demands on their time.  A 14 year boy old does not have much beyond school and some minor chores.  A 24 year man old has a work day, probably has a girlfriend, and possibly has children, in addition to some amount of chores and errands.  As much as the 24 year old may want to pull a 6 hour world of warcraft marathon, he probably has to make sure he has groceries, that the bills are paid.  While holding onto the girlfriend is optional, it probably takes precedence over the games.  The same applies to children.  On top of that, the adult potentially has the money to do other activities (ie, going out to a bar, going to a rock concert, hockey game, going skydiving) that may also take precedence over video games.</p><p>The content factor is trickier.  The 14 year old and the 24 year old will have a great deal of overlap for what they like in general terms.  The only difference is that as the 24 year old has less time to waste, the content must be of a generally higher quality.  Having mature themes is probably going to be the difference here if it is done right.  The 24 year old wont play a game just because it has "hot horny nympho sex and buckets of blood".  While that is still pretty sweet, it lacks the novelty value it has for the 14 year old.  Having moral shades of grey, believable characters, and solid writing will help.</p><p>But gameplay is still king.  Nintendo has pretty much proven beyond all doubt that if you can deliver good gameplay (Mario kart, wii sports, Mario Galaxy), you can hit the mark pretty solidly.</p><p>END COMMUNICATION</p></div><p>Parent is spot-on. 24 year old here. (Recently) Graduated, married, and working full-time with graduate school looming. Boy, can I vouch for that. After work, chores, and spending time with my wife, two or three hours of gaming is a \_great\_ night. These days I will \_only\_ play a RPG of solid quality, or the odd shooter for general entertainment. Why? Between bills and lack of time, repetitive gameplay and shoddy writing (even the hint thereof) ensure that the game will not be bought, definitely not played. I'm reading many more reviews, buying fewer games, and spending more money on other entertainment since time is more of a premium than even a year or two ago.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The difference between adult gamers and younger gamers is partly a factor of time pressure , and partly a factor of content.The time pressure element is obvious .
Aside from a typical work schedule for an adult taking more hours then going to school , an adult has more demands on their time .
A 14 year boy old does not have much beyond school and some minor chores .
A 24 year man old has a work day , probably has a girlfriend , and possibly has children , in addition to some amount of chores and errands .
As much as the 24 year old may want to pull a 6 hour world of warcraft marathon , he probably has to make sure he has groceries , that the bills are paid .
While holding onto the girlfriend is optional , it probably takes precedence over the games .
The same applies to children .
On top of that , the adult potentially has the money to do other activities ( ie , going out to a bar , going to a rock concert , hockey game , going skydiving ) that may also take precedence over video games.The content factor is trickier .
The 14 year old and the 24 year old will have a great deal of overlap for what they like in general terms .
The only difference is that as the 24 year old has less time to waste , the content must be of a generally higher quality .
Having mature themes is probably going to be the difference here if it is done right .
The 24 year old wont play a game just because it has " hot horny nympho sex and buckets of blood " .
While that is still pretty sweet , it lacks the novelty value it has for the 14 year old .
Having moral shades of grey , believable characters , and solid writing will help.But gameplay is still king .
Nintendo has pretty much proven beyond all doubt that if you can deliver good gameplay ( Mario kart , wii sports , Mario Galaxy ) , you can hit the mark pretty solidly.END COMMUNICATIONParent is spot-on .
24 year old here .
( Recently ) Graduated , married , and working full-time with graduate school looming .
Boy , can I vouch for that .
After work , chores , and spending time with my wife , two or three hours of gaming is a \ _great \ _ night .
These days I will \ _only \ _ play a RPG of solid quality , or the odd shooter for general entertainment .
Why ? Between bills and lack of time , repetitive gameplay and shoddy writing ( even the hint thereof ) ensure that the game will not be bought , definitely not played .
I 'm reading many more reviews , buying fewer games , and spending more money on other entertainment since time is more of a premium than even a year or two ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The difference between adult gamers and younger gamers is partly a factor of time pressure, and partly a factor of content.The time pressure element is obvious.
Aside from a typical work schedule for an adult taking more hours then going to school, an adult has more demands on their time.
A 14 year boy old does not have much beyond school and some minor chores.
A 24 year man old has a work day, probably has a girlfriend, and possibly has children, in addition to some amount of chores and errands.
As much as the 24 year old may want to pull a 6 hour world of warcraft marathon, he probably has to make sure he has groceries, that the bills are paid.
While holding onto the girlfriend is optional, it probably takes precedence over the games.
The same applies to children.
On top of that, the adult potentially has the money to do other activities (ie, going out to a bar, going to a rock concert, hockey game, going skydiving) that may also take precedence over video games.The content factor is trickier.
The 14 year old and the 24 year old will have a great deal of overlap for what they like in general terms.
The only difference is that as the 24 year old has less time to waste, the content must be of a generally higher quality.
Having mature themes is probably going to be the difference here if it is done right.
The 24 year old wont play a game just because it has "hot horny nympho sex and buckets of blood".
While that is still pretty sweet, it lacks the novelty value it has for the 14 year old.
Having moral shades of grey, believable characters, and solid writing will help.But gameplay is still king.
Nintendo has pretty much proven beyond all doubt that if you can deliver good gameplay (Mario kart, wii sports, Mario Galaxy), you can hit the mark pretty solidly.END COMMUNICATIONParent is spot-on.
24 year old here.
(Recently) Graduated, married, and working full-time with graduate school looming.
Boy, can I vouch for that.
After work, chores, and spending time with my wife, two or three hours of gaming is a \_great\_ night.
These days I will \_only\_ play a RPG of solid quality, or the odd shooter for general entertainment.
Why? Between bills and lack of time, repetitive gameplay and shoddy writing (even the hint thereof) ensure that the game will not be bought, definitely not played.
I'm reading many more reviews, buying fewer games, and spending more money on other entertainment since time is more of a premium than even a year or two ago.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256098</id>
	<title>Re:Time pressure and expected content</title>
	<author>Tibia1</author>
	<datestamp>1266952380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm 19 and I still manage to play games. I guess this is due to lack of a girlfriend or kids, but I still have a lot on the to-do list. Errands, groceries and chores can be done quickly with optimal efficiency. However, a full course load at university, with the added responsibilities of reading/commenting Slashdot, and browsing the web for over an hour a day, (I have a lot of bookmarks) and watch my daily share of shows (daily show for example).I also am in the process of creating a website to generate revenue and trying to write content for a blog. I've also taken up working out once in a while and joined the MMA club. Not to mention my devotion to my bong and guitar. God, summer will be a relief- it will allow me to get started coding this game idea I've got.<br> <br>But let me tell you, I still fit in some decent hours to play cod (I've got 20k kills since release), and I plan on buying a multitude of games that are finally making their way out. Would you believe that I'm actually a really lazy person and sleep for 10+ hours usually? Don't say I don't have a life either, because I got drunk twice last weekend.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm 19 and I still manage to play games .
I guess this is due to lack of a girlfriend or kids , but I still have a lot on the to-do list .
Errands , groceries and chores can be done quickly with optimal efficiency .
However , a full course load at university , with the added responsibilities of reading/commenting Slashdot , and browsing the web for over an hour a day , ( I have a lot of bookmarks ) and watch my daily share of shows ( daily show for example ) .I also am in the process of creating a website to generate revenue and trying to write content for a blog .
I 've also taken up working out once in a while and joined the MMA club .
Not to mention my devotion to my bong and guitar .
God , summer will be a relief- it will allow me to get started coding this game idea I 've got .
But let me tell you , I still fit in some decent hours to play cod ( I 've got 20k kills since release ) , and I plan on buying a multitude of games that are finally making their way out .
Would you believe that I 'm actually a really lazy person and sleep for 10 + hours usually ?
Do n't say I do n't have a life either , because I got drunk twice last weekend .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm 19 and I still manage to play games.
I guess this is due to lack of a girlfriend or kids, but I still have a lot on the to-do list.
Errands, groceries and chores can be done quickly with optimal efficiency.
However, a full course load at university, with the added responsibilities of reading/commenting Slashdot, and browsing the web for over an hour a day, (I have a lot of bookmarks) and watch my daily share of shows (daily show for example).I also am in the process of creating a website to generate revenue and trying to write content for a blog.
I've also taken up working out once in a while and joined the MMA club.
Not to mention my devotion to my bong and guitar.
God, summer will be a relief- it will allow me to get started coding this game idea I've got.
But let me tell you, I still fit in some decent hours to play cod (I've got 20k kills since release), and I plan on buying a multitude of games that are finally making their way out.
Would you believe that I'm actually a really lazy person and sleep for 10+ hours usually?
Don't say I don't have a life either, because I got drunk twice last weekend.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255272</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>ClubPetey</author>
	<datestamp>1266944400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You and I must be exact opposites.  I play games specifically for their rich story lines.  Sure, I play MW2 or Borderlands to blow some stuff up on occasion, but I enjoy rich stories like Lost Odyssey much more.</p><p>Games are 40-80 hour movies to me.  With that length, each character can be explored, their background and motives explained, creating a richer involvement in the story.  The reason those games are "grown-up" is because it takes a grown-up patience to play them.  Most 10 year olds aren't going to have the patience to watch all the FMVs and read the dialog in a game like Final Fantasy.</p><p>I for one certainly hope that more games like Lost Odyssey are released.  As the "original" video game generation gets older, I think we'll see more of these games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You and I must be exact opposites .
I play games specifically for their rich story lines .
Sure , I play MW2 or Borderlands to blow some stuff up on occasion , but I enjoy rich stories like Lost Odyssey much more.Games are 40-80 hour movies to me .
With that length , each character can be explored , their background and motives explained , creating a richer involvement in the story .
The reason those games are " grown-up " is because it takes a grown-up patience to play them .
Most 10 year olds are n't going to have the patience to watch all the FMVs and read the dialog in a game like Final Fantasy.I for one certainly hope that more games like Lost Odyssey are released .
As the " original " video game generation gets older , I think we 'll see more of these games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You and I must be exact opposites.
I play games specifically for their rich story lines.
Sure, I play MW2 or Borderlands to blow some stuff up on occasion, but I enjoy rich stories like Lost Odyssey much more.Games are 40-80 hour movies to me.
With that length, each character can be explored, their background and motives explained, creating a richer involvement in the story.
The reason those games are "grown-up" is because it takes a grown-up patience to play them.
Most 10 year olds aren't going to have the patience to watch all the FMVs and read the dialog in a game like Final Fantasy.I for one certainly hope that more games like Lost Odyssey are released.
As the "original" video game generation gets older, I think we'll see more of these games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256534</id>
	<title>Re:Time pressure and expected content</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265142900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Speak for yourself, my younger sister is a senior in high school and she wakes up before me, goes to sleep after me and spends maybe an hour or two of that time doing anything she wants. I'm not saying that she is in school more hours than I work, but when I get home I'm done.</p><p>Although I think it goes without saying, if you have kids this does not apply to you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Speak for yourself , my younger sister is a senior in high school and she wakes up before me , goes to sleep after me and spends maybe an hour or two of that time doing anything she wants .
I 'm not saying that she is in school more hours than I work , but when I get home I 'm done.Although I think it goes without saying , if you have kids this does not apply to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Speak for yourself, my younger sister is a senior in high school and she wakes up before me, goes to sleep after me and spends maybe an hour or two of that time doing anything she wants.
I'm not saying that she is in school more hours than I work, but when I get home I'm done.Although I think it goes without saying, if you have kids this does not apply to you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255908</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>Totenglocke</author>
	<datestamp>1266950400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A game for 40 year olds?  Well I don't really see too much of a market for "Change the Baby" or "Do Chores Around the House"!</htmltext>
<tokenext>A game for 40 year olds ?
Well I do n't really see too much of a market for " Change the Baby " or " Do Chores Around the House " !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A game for 40 year olds?
Well I don't really see too much of a market for "Change the Baby" or "Do Chores Around the House"!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255470</id>
	<title>It's time for PINBALL to come back as a big thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266946080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's time for PINBALL to come back as a big thing and THEY ARE STILL MADE IN THE USA!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's time for PINBALL to come back as a big thing and THEY ARE STILL MADE IN THE USA ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's time for PINBALL to come back as a big thing and THEY ARE STILL MADE IN THE USA!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255970</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266951120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Games are 40-80 hour movies to me."</p><p>From what I've experienced so far, it looks like Heavy Rain will be way, way, way, way, way, WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY longer than that. with tens of thousands of different paths to take the story, and you can pretty much kill off every main character and keep going, is nuts.</p><p>Oh, and be warned, this is a VERY mature. Holy mother of god it can get dark.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Games are 40-80 hour movies to me .
" From what I 've experienced so far , it looks like Heavy Rain will be way , way , way , way , way , WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY longer than that .
with tens of thousands of different paths to take the story , and you can pretty much kill off every main character and keep going , is nuts.Oh , and be warned , this is a VERY mature .
Holy mother of god it can get dark .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Games are 40-80 hour movies to me.
"From what I've experienced so far, it looks like Heavy Rain will be way, way, way, way, way, WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY longer than that.
with tens of thousands of different paths to take the story, and you can pretty much kill off every main character and keep going, is nuts.Oh, and be warned, this is a VERY mature.
Holy mother of god it can get dark.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255406</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>Itninja</author>
	<datestamp>1266945540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here's <a href="http://www.unletteredandordinary.com/2009/07/dance-dance-repetition.html" title="unlettered...dinary.com">my list</a> [unlettered...dinary.com] of games I would love to play.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's my list [ unlettered...dinary.com ] of games I would love to play .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's my list [unlettered...dinary.com] of games I would love to play.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256336</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>blahplusplus</author>
	<datestamp>1265140800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"You and I must be exact opposites."</p><p>No you just like slower paced passive entertainment, in which you are not required to partake in the action or engage the world beyond a minimum.</p><p>I'm sure you love the adventure genre, I can take adventure games in moderate doses.  But as a gamer I play games for the interactivity.  Games can tell stories but they can't be a passive experience, but I don't play a game for the story.   Mass effect 2 would not be the same experience without the action sequences and that was a game with a decent story in it.  My point is a game will suffer enormously if the game spends too much emphasis on passive interactivity moving from cut-scene to cut-scene.  The thing that separates games from movies is your *participation* if you want a story to be told movies or adventure games are up your ally.  Why you'd want to experience stories through games in a passive manner when you can experience the same thing in other mediums is what I'd ask you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" You and I must be exact opposites .
" No you just like slower paced passive entertainment , in which you are not required to partake in the action or engage the world beyond a minimum.I 'm sure you love the adventure genre , I can take adventure games in moderate doses .
But as a gamer I play games for the interactivity .
Games can tell stories but they ca n't be a passive experience , but I do n't play a game for the story .
Mass effect 2 would not be the same experience without the action sequences and that was a game with a decent story in it .
My point is a game will suffer enormously if the game spends too much emphasis on passive interactivity moving from cut-scene to cut-scene .
The thing that separates games from movies is your * participation * if you want a story to be told movies or adventure games are up your ally .
Why you 'd want to experience stories through games in a passive manner when you can experience the same thing in other mediums is what I 'd ask you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You and I must be exact opposites.
"No you just like slower paced passive entertainment, in which you are not required to partake in the action or engage the world beyond a minimum.I'm sure you love the adventure genre, I can take adventure games in moderate doses.
But as a gamer I play games for the interactivity.
Games can tell stories but they can't be a passive experience, but I don't play a game for the story.
Mass effect 2 would not be the same experience without the action sequences and that was a game with a decent story in it.
My point is a game will suffer enormously if the game spends too much emphasis on passive interactivity moving from cut-scene to cut-scene.
The thing that separates games from movies is your *participation* if you want a story to be told movies or adventure games are up your ally.
Why you'd want to experience stories through games in a passive manner when you can experience the same thing in other mediums is what I'd ask you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256126</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1266952740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I like a lot of games.  I tend to go for more of the games you talk about.  Something that has an interesting battle system and a deep plot that can explore multiple characters.  I wouldn't really say that was "adult" though.  I liked that type of game since I was a kid.<br> <br>As far as the article goes, I don't necessarily agree.  We are given books in high school like "Of Mice and Men" that are pretty screwed up.  Can you imagine a video game like that being approved for Teens?  There is a double standard that goes in to it.  Maybe since it is interactive?  I am not sure, but literature and games aren't treated the same.  Great literature is something that moves you and persists as being great for generations.  Games are really new...what would be a classic?  Starcraft, I suppose?  Will Halo stand the test of time? (I doubt it)  A great game doesn't need a story.  I can play counter strike all day and have fun, but I don't think my life is enriched by it.  There is no story other than "You know that one round when it was me on 5 and I won?  Oh yeah, that was sweet."<br> <br>Well, I am kind of rambling, but I think gaming is still finding itself as an entertainment media.  I believe it can take on any subject in literature and movies.  I believe, in the future, the games that last will be the ones that move us the most.  I could see the great games of the past being remade with updated graphics to be introduced to a new audience.  So that my children's children can get completely pissed off when *super old spoiler alert* Sepheroth kills Aerith and you play the rest of the damn game trying to bring her back to life because you leveled her and she was really cute.  It's funny, I still remember the way I felt when it happened.  Obviously, as an adult, I might perceive it as something less than what it meant to me then.  But I still think it would be interesting to see how my kids and their kids would react.  I think it would be more accessible if they remade it on modern systems.  Then again, people still read Shakespere.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I like a lot of games .
I tend to go for more of the games you talk about .
Something that has an interesting battle system and a deep plot that can explore multiple characters .
I would n't really say that was " adult " though .
I liked that type of game since I was a kid .
As far as the article goes , I do n't necessarily agree .
We are given books in high school like " Of Mice and Men " that are pretty screwed up .
Can you imagine a video game like that being approved for Teens ?
There is a double standard that goes in to it .
Maybe since it is interactive ?
I am not sure , but literature and games are n't treated the same .
Great literature is something that moves you and persists as being great for generations .
Games are really new...what would be a classic ?
Starcraft , I suppose ?
Will Halo stand the test of time ?
( I doubt it ) A great game does n't need a story .
I can play counter strike all day and have fun , but I do n't think my life is enriched by it .
There is no story other than " You know that one round when it was me on 5 and I won ?
Oh yeah , that was sweet .
" Well , I am kind of rambling , but I think gaming is still finding itself as an entertainment media .
I believe it can take on any subject in literature and movies .
I believe , in the future , the games that last will be the ones that move us the most .
I could see the great games of the past being remade with updated graphics to be introduced to a new audience .
So that my children 's children can get completely pissed off when * super old spoiler alert * Sepheroth kills Aerith and you play the rest of the damn game trying to bring her back to life because you leveled her and she was really cute .
It 's funny , I still remember the way I felt when it happened .
Obviously , as an adult , I might perceive it as something less than what it meant to me then .
But I still think it would be interesting to see how my kids and their kids would react .
I think it would be more accessible if they remade it on modern systems .
Then again , people still read Shakespere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like a lot of games.
I tend to go for more of the games you talk about.
Something that has an interesting battle system and a deep plot that can explore multiple characters.
I wouldn't really say that was "adult" though.
I liked that type of game since I was a kid.
As far as the article goes, I don't necessarily agree.
We are given books in high school like "Of Mice and Men" that are pretty screwed up.
Can you imagine a video game like that being approved for Teens?
There is a double standard that goes in to it.
Maybe since it is interactive?
I am not sure, but literature and games aren't treated the same.
Great literature is something that moves you and persists as being great for generations.
Games are really new...what would be a classic?
Starcraft, I suppose?
Will Halo stand the test of time?
(I doubt it)  A great game doesn't need a story.
I can play counter strike all day and have fun, but I don't think my life is enriched by it.
There is no story other than "You know that one round when it was me on 5 and I won?
Oh yeah, that was sweet.
" Well, I am kind of rambling, but I think gaming is still finding itself as an entertainment media.
I believe it can take on any subject in literature and movies.
I believe, in the future, the games that last will be the ones that move us the most.
I could see the great games of the past being remade with updated graphics to be introduced to a new audience.
So that my children's children can get completely pissed off when *super old spoiler alert* Sepheroth kills Aerith and you play the rest of the damn game trying to bring her back to life because you leveled her and she was really cute.
It's funny, I still remember the way I felt when it happened.
Obviously, as an adult, I might perceive it as something less than what it meant to me then.
But I still think it would be interesting to see how my kids and their kids would react.
I think it would be more accessible if they remade it on modern systems.
Then again, people still read Shakespere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255246</id>
	<title>Re:the game</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266944220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, I already won <a href="http://xkcd.com/391/" title="xkcd.com">http://xkcd.com/391/</a> [xkcd.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , I already won http : //xkcd.com/391/ [ xkcd.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, I already won http://xkcd.com/391/ [xkcd.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255072</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31257878</id>
	<title>IMHO</title>
	<author>inode\_buddha</author>
	<datestamp>1265116020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>IMHO as a "grown-up" myself, the best video games include the simple ones: Pac-Man and Galaxis at the local Pizza Hut for a quarter. Either that or some BASIC on a console hooked up to your TV.</htmltext>
<tokenext>IMHO as a " grown-up " myself , the best video games include the simple ones : Pac-Man and Galaxis at the local Pizza Hut for a quarter .
Either that or some BASIC on a console hooked up to your TV .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IMHO as a "grown-up" myself, the best video games include the simple ones: Pac-Man and Galaxis at the local Pizza Hut for a quarter.
Either that or some BASIC on a console hooked up to your TV.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31259714</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>KnownIssues</author>
	<datestamp>1265128080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone close approaching 40, I've been keeping my eyes open more and more for games outside the 18-30 demographic. I'm pretty burnt out on FPS games. I pretend I like RTS games, and I do like learning how to play them, I'm just no good at them past the first few scenarios (maybe because of my tendency to want to build lines of towers for defense).</p><p>I enjoy American-style RPG games the most (e.g. Bioware and Bethesda games). Steam has been a godsend with all its classic games offerings. I've picked up things like Monkey Island and Longest Journey that I didn't have the drive to play through as a teen, but have worn well with age. Having played most of Indigo Prophecy, I'm looking forward to Heavy Rain, even though I know it's going to have some frustrating mechanics and I'll probably get stuck 70\% through.</p><p>So, I think they're out there. Probably not games specifically targeted to 30 - 40-somethings, but that at least include them in their target audience.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone close approaching 40 , I 've been keeping my eyes open more and more for games outside the 18-30 demographic .
I 'm pretty burnt out on FPS games .
I pretend I like RTS games , and I do like learning how to play them , I 'm just no good at them past the first few scenarios ( maybe because of my tendency to want to build lines of towers for defense ) .I enjoy American-style RPG games the most ( e.g .
Bioware and Bethesda games ) .
Steam has been a godsend with all its classic games offerings .
I 've picked up things like Monkey Island and Longest Journey that I did n't have the drive to play through as a teen , but have worn well with age .
Having played most of Indigo Prophecy , I 'm looking forward to Heavy Rain , even though I know it 's going to have some frustrating mechanics and I 'll probably get stuck 70 \ % through.So , I think they 're out there .
Probably not games specifically targeted to 30 - 40-somethings , but that at least include them in their target audience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone close approaching 40, I've been keeping my eyes open more and more for games outside the 18-30 demographic.
I'm pretty burnt out on FPS games.
I pretend I like RTS games, and I do like learning how to play them, I'm just no good at them past the first few scenarios (maybe because of my tendency to want to build lines of towers for defense).I enjoy American-style RPG games the most (e.g.
Bioware and Bethesda games).
Steam has been a godsend with all its classic games offerings.
I've picked up things like Monkey Island and Longest Journey that I didn't have the drive to play through as a teen, but have worn well with age.
Having played most of Indigo Prophecy, I'm looking forward to Heavy Rain, even though I know it's going to have some frustrating mechanics and I'll probably get stuck 70\% through.So, I think they're out there.
Probably not games specifically targeted to 30 - 40-somethings, but that at least include them in their target audience.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256640</id>
	<title>40+</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265101200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now do you need a fake ID to buy ultra-porn type games when you are 40+?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now do you need a fake ID to buy ultra-porn type games when you are 40 + ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now do you need a fake ID to buy ultra-porn type games when you are 40+?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31258306</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265120400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>From what I've experienced so far, it looks like Heavy Rain will be way, way, way, way, way, WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY longer than that. with tens of thousands of different paths to take the story</p></div><p>I'm sure that "Choose Your Own Story" books theoretically have massive numbers of slightly different paths, but in practice you're not going to get that much out of playing more than a few of the most different ones.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From what I 've experienced so far , it looks like Heavy Rain will be way , way , way , way , way , WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY longer than that .
with tens of thousands of different paths to take the storyI 'm sure that " Choose Your Own Story " books theoretically have massive numbers of slightly different paths , but in practice you 're not going to get that much out of playing more than a few of the most different ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From what I've experienced so far, it looks like Heavy Rain will be way, way, way, way, way, WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY longer than that.
with tens of thousands of different paths to take the storyI'm sure that "Choose Your Own Story" books theoretically have massive numbers of slightly different paths, but in practice you're not going to get that much out of playing more than a few of the most different ones.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255358</id>
	<title>Heavy Rain</title>
	<author>Yosho-sama</author>
	<datestamp>1266945060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm pretty sure this topic is in reply to the recent release of this amazing game.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm pretty sure this topic is in reply to the recent release of this amazing game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm pretty sure this topic is in reply to the recent release of this amazing game.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255954</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>Khyber</author>
	<datestamp>1266951000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"How about games for 40 year olds? No, not Pac-man and Pole Position, but games adults can play and enjoy now."</p><p>I picked up my pre-order copy of Heavy Rain today. Already chopped my poor guy's finger off two different ways. Oh fuck yes, this is an adult game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" How about games for 40 year olds ?
No , not Pac-man and Pole Position , but games adults can play and enjoy now .
" I picked up my pre-order copy of Heavy Rain today .
Already chopped my poor guy 's finger off two different ways .
Oh fuck yes , this is an adult game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"How about games for 40 year olds?
No, not Pac-man and Pole Position, but games adults can play and enjoy now.
"I picked up my pre-order copy of Heavy Rain today.
Already chopped my poor guy's finger off two different ways.
Oh fuck yes, this is an adult game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31261170</id>
	<title>Re:Why aren't there more adult games?</title>
	<author>grumbel</author>
	<datestamp>1265134260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I accept that PG-rated "sex scenes" are a step towards mature themes in games, but i don't understand why more developers aren't targeting truly adult audience.</p></div><p>I think the core problem is simply that nobody has figured out how to do interesting and reusable gameplay for adult themed games. Having space marines shoot aliens is easy and well understood, but when it comes to emotions and stuff things get really difficult, as there no longer is a well understood way to implement it. And without well understood gameplay such games become much more risky to do and thus fewer people are doing them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I accept that PG-rated " sex scenes " are a step towards mature themes in games , but i do n't understand why more developers are n't targeting truly adult audience.I think the core problem is simply that nobody has figured out how to do interesting and reusable gameplay for adult themed games .
Having space marines shoot aliens is easy and well understood , but when it comes to emotions and stuff things get really difficult , as there no longer is a well understood way to implement it .
And without well understood gameplay such games become much more risky to do and thus fewer people are doing them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I accept that PG-rated "sex scenes" are a step towards mature themes in games, but i don't understand why more developers aren't targeting truly adult audience.I think the core problem is simply that nobody has figured out how to do interesting and reusable gameplay for adult themed games.
Having space marines shoot aliens is easy and well understood, but when it comes to emotions and stuff things get really difficult, as there no longer is a well understood way to implement it.
And without well understood gameplay such games become much more risky to do and thus fewer people are doing them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255616</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255616</id>
	<title>Why aren't there more adult games?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266947700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For a while, I have been waiting for truly "adult" games to hit the market. And before our 3 female readers revolt, I'm talking about more than just "borking" in ME2, or the advent of sexy photorealistic ladies. After all, leisure suit larry was already chasing pixellated tail "way" back in the early nineties.</p><p>Games have long been associated with children, and since we young-ish adults have grown up with videogames, games have sort of grown up with us. I say sort-of, because game technology, graphics, and gameplay have evolved. But most games are still targeted at tweens and teens, no matter what their ESRB rating claims.</p><p>So where are the games with truly adult themes? I'm talking about the breadth of human emotion here. Something more than just saving the princess or killing space marines. Mainstream cinema has no problem producing stimulating dramatic stories which balance artistic integrity, depth of plot, and mass market appeal. Yes, Transformers 2 still makes tons of money, but we still see Avatar and The Hurt Locker on the big screen. And moves like Precious or District 9 get made, even though they won't sell millions of bags of popcorn or action figures.</p><p>Network TV has embraced the least common denominator with it's plethora of reality shows. But American Idol and Biggest Loser are still balanced by The Wire, Mad Men, Lost, and 30 Rock et al.</p><p>I understand that console and handheld game markets are dominated by children, and many buying decisions are made by parents. However, adult game purchasers are a large and ever-growing demographic, so it seems obvious to me that game developers should be targeting adults with adult games.</p><p>I accept that PG-rated "sex scenes" are a step towards mature themes in games, but i don't understand why more developers aren't targeting truly adult audience. The obvious argument is that development dollars will cater to the largest demographics, so as to increase game studio profits. But where are the "independent" yet well-financed game studios that can rival "indie" film studios? 20 years ago "sex lies and videotape" defined the low budget crossover indie movie. Now "independent" movies can command a large production budget and can expect a modest return on investment. So why aren't there more game studios coming out with Shadow of the Colossus, Braid, and Heavy Rain?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For a while , I have been waiting for truly " adult " games to hit the market .
And before our 3 female readers revolt , I 'm talking about more than just " borking " in ME2 , or the advent of sexy photorealistic ladies .
After all , leisure suit larry was already chasing pixellated tail " way " back in the early nineties.Games have long been associated with children , and since we young-ish adults have grown up with videogames , games have sort of grown up with us .
I say sort-of , because game technology , graphics , and gameplay have evolved .
But most games are still targeted at tweens and teens , no matter what their ESRB rating claims.So where are the games with truly adult themes ?
I 'm talking about the breadth of human emotion here .
Something more than just saving the princess or killing space marines .
Mainstream cinema has no problem producing stimulating dramatic stories which balance artistic integrity , depth of plot , and mass market appeal .
Yes , Transformers 2 still makes tons of money , but we still see Avatar and The Hurt Locker on the big screen .
And moves like Precious or District 9 get made , even though they wo n't sell millions of bags of popcorn or action figures.Network TV has embraced the least common denominator with it 's plethora of reality shows .
But American Idol and Biggest Loser are still balanced by The Wire , Mad Men , Lost , and 30 Rock et al.I understand that console and handheld game markets are dominated by children , and many buying decisions are made by parents .
However , adult game purchasers are a large and ever-growing demographic , so it seems obvious to me that game developers should be targeting adults with adult games.I accept that PG-rated " sex scenes " are a step towards mature themes in games , but i do n't understand why more developers are n't targeting truly adult audience .
The obvious argument is that development dollars will cater to the largest demographics , so as to increase game studio profits .
But where are the " independent " yet well-financed game studios that can rival " indie " film studios ?
20 years ago " sex lies and videotape " defined the low budget crossover indie movie .
Now " independent " movies can command a large production budget and can expect a modest return on investment .
So why are n't there more game studios coming out with Shadow of the Colossus , Braid , and Heavy Rain ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For a while, I have been waiting for truly "adult" games to hit the market.
And before our 3 female readers revolt, I'm talking about more than just "borking" in ME2, or the advent of sexy photorealistic ladies.
After all, leisure suit larry was already chasing pixellated tail "way" back in the early nineties.Games have long been associated with children, and since we young-ish adults have grown up with videogames, games have sort of grown up with us.
I say sort-of, because game technology, graphics, and gameplay have evolved.
But most games are still targeted at tweens and teens, no matter what their ESRB rating claims.So where are the games with truly adult themes?
I'm talking about the breadth of human emotion here.
Something more than just saving the princess or killing space marines.
Mainstream cinema has no problem producing stimulating dramatic stories which balance artistic integrity, depth of plot, and mass market appeal.
Yes, Transformers 2 still makes tons of money, but we still see Avatar and The Hurt Locker on the big screen.
And moves like Precious or District 9 get made, even though they won't sell millions of bags of popcorn or action figures.Network TV has embraced the least common denominator with it's plethora of reality shows.
But American Idol and Biggest Loser are still balanced by The Wire, Mad Men, Lost, and 30 Rock et al.I understand that console and handheld game markets are dominated by children, and many buying decisions are made by parents.
However, adult game purchasers are a large and ever-growing demographic, so it seems obvious to me that game developers should be targeting adults with adult games.I accept that PG-rated "sex scenes" are a step towards mature themes in games, but i don't understand why more developers aren't targeting truly adult audience.
The obvious argument is that development dollars will cater to the largest demographics, so as to increase game studio profits.
But where are the "independent" yet well-financed game studios that can rival "indie" film studios?
20 years ago "sex lies and videotape" defined the low budget crossover indie movie.
Now "independent" movies can command a large production budget and can expect a modest return on investment.
So why aren't there more game studios coming out with Shadow of the Colossus, Braid, and Heavy Rain?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31263722</id>
	<title>Re:Time pressure and expected content</title>
	<author>porttikivi</author>
	<datestamp>1265101620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am 46 and the only games I play are New Super Mario Bros. and Mario Kart. I think it remains to be proven, that a computer game really needs a story beyond what Mario games have. It's all about flickering lights, controls, playability, rhytm, learning curve, balanced challenge... Just like sports is, except this is mental and finger candy, not physical! I want stories? I read books or go to movies!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am 46 and the only games I play are New Super Mario Bros. and Mario Kart .
I think it remains to be proven , that a computer game really needs a story beyond what Mario games have .
It 's all about flickering lights , controls , playability , rhytm , learning curve , balanced challenge... Just like sports is , except this is mental and finger candy , not physical !
I want stories ?
I read books or go to movies !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am 46 and the only games I play are New Super Mario Bros. and Mario Kart.
I think it remains to be proven, that a computer game really needs a story beyond what Mario games have.
It's all about flickering lights, controls, playability, rhytm, learning curve, balanced challenge... Just like sports is, except this is mental and finger candy, not physical!
I want stories?
I read books or go to movies!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31258032</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>indiechild</author>
	<datestamp>1265117520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's pretty hard to make really long games (that aren't boring grindfests) because of the attention to detail that would be required from the development team. It would make the game insanely expensive -- even more so than they already are.</p><p>Heavy Rain sure sounds great but I doubt it would last longer than 10-15 hours.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's pretty hard to make really long games ( that are n't boring grindfests ) because of the attention to detail that would be required from the development team .
It would make the game insanely expensive -- even more so than they already are.Heavy Rain sure sounds great but I doubt it would last longer than 10-15 hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's pretty hard to make really long games (that aren't boring grindfests) because of the attention to detail that would be required from the development team.
It would make the game insanely expensive -- even more so than they already are.Heavy Rain sure sounds great but I doubt it would last longer than 10-15 hours.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31257948</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>vlm</author>
	<datestamp>1265116680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>A game for 40 year olds? Well I don't really see too much of a market for "Change the Baby" or "Do Chores Around the House"</p></div><p>"The Sims" sold pretty well and its not much beyond that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A game for 40 year olds ?
Well I do n't really see too much of a market for " Change the Baby " or " Do Chores Around the House " " The Sims " sold pretty well and its not much beyond that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A game for 40 year olds?
Well I don't really see too much of a market for "Change the Baby" or "Do Chores Around the House""The Sims" sold pretty well and its not much beyond that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255908</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31258046</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265117760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why wouldn't 40 year olds want escapism? Or do you think the average 10 year old is really fighting insurgents as part of a crack military squad during their days and then playing the same thing online in the evenings?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would n't 40 year olds want escapism ?
Or do you think the average 10 year old is really fighting insurgents as part of a crack military squad during their days and then playing the same thing online in the evenings ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why wouldn't 40 year olds want escapism?
Or do you think the average 10 year old is really fighting insurgents as part of a crack military squad during their days and then playing the same thing online in the evenings?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255908</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256162</id>
	<title>Re:Time pressure and expected content</title>
	<author>feepness</author>
	<datestamp>1266953220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The 24 year old wont play a game just because it has "hot horny nympho sex and buckets of blood".</p> </div><p>Geez man!  Speak for yourself and don't ruin it for the rest of us!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The 24 year old wont play a game just because it has " hot horny nympho sex and buckets of blood " .
Geez man !
Speak for yourself and do n't ruin it for the rest of us !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The 24 year old wont play a game just because it has "hot horny nympho sex and buckets of blood".
Geez man!
Speak for yourself and don't ruin it for the rest of us!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31259488</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>npsimons</author>
	<datestamp>1265127300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Oh, and be warned, this is a VERY mature. Holy mother of god it can get dark.</p></div></blockquote><p>It is sad that "dark" is considered "mature".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , and be warned , this is a VERY mature .
Holy mother of god it can get dark.It is sad that " dark " is considered " mature " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, and be warned, this is a VERY mature.
Holy mother of god it can get dark.It is sad that "dark" is considered "mature".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31258070</id>
	<title>MMORPGS age segregated servers</title>
	<author>Aceticon</author>
	<datestamp>1265118060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Personally I always wished that MMORPGS had age segregated servers available.</p><p>Not because of adult content (as somebody pointed out in another story, naked pixels are only really tillitanting when ur a teen), it's simply because an environment where teens can run around anonymously controlling powerfull avatars and there are no adults in supervisory positions tends only be fun - if at all - for the teens themselfs (things like griefing, being loud, obnoxious and showing off which look cool when ur 13 and have no life experience just look like signs of social/emotional desperation once you become mature enough to understand people).</p><p>I don't want all servers should be age segregated, I just whish there were such servers available - with, for example, a 25+ age limit - for those that want the option: I would even be willing to pay extra for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally I always wished that MMORPGS had age segregated servers available.Not because of adult content ( as somebody pointed out in another story , naked pixels are only really tillitanting when ur a teen ) , it 's simply because an environment where teens can run around anonymously controlling powerfull avatars and there are no adults in supervisory positions tends only be fun - if at all - for the teens themselfs ( things like griefing , being loud , obnoxious and showing off which look cool when ur 13 and have no life experience just look like signs of social/emotional desperation once you become mature enough to understand people ) .I do n't want all servers should be age segregated , I just whish there were such servers available - with , for example , a 25 + age limit - for those that want the option : I would even be willing to pay extra for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally I always wished that MMORPGS had age segregated servers available.Not because of adult content (as somebody pointed out in another story, naked pixels are only really tillitanting when ur a teen), it's simply because an environment where teens can run around anonymously controlling powerfull avatars and there are no adults in supervisory positions tends only be fun - if at all - for the teens themselfs (things like griefing, being loud, obnoxious and showing off which look cool when ur 13 and have no life experience just look like signs of social/emotional desperation once you become mature enough to understand people).I don't want all servers should be age segregated, I just whish there were such servers available - with, for example, a 25+ age limit - for those that want the option: I would even be willing to pay extra for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31258584</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>evocarti</author>
	<datestamp>1265122440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Check out heavy rain - I'd like to myself, if I had a ps3<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p><p>An excerpt from wired's review:</p><p>"...We&rsquo;re well into the era of games-for-everyone, where if dinner isn&rsquo;t on the table it&rsquo;s because mom is too busy playing FarmVille. But what if she&rsquo;s in the mood to trade in cartoon cows for adult drama? There&rsquo;s practically nothing to serve this expanding audience. That&rsquo;s why games like Heavy Rain are going to be a big part of gaming&rsquo;s future.</p><p>Heavy Rain, which will be released Tuesday in North America, is not perfect. But it&rsquo;s a successful experiment. And when it&rsquo;s good, it&rsquo;s good in ways that traditional games rarely touch."</p><p>And the link: <a href="http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/02/review-heavy-rain/" title="wired.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/02/review-heavy-rain/</a> [wired.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Check out heavy rain - I 'd like to myself , if I had a ps3 : - ) An excerpt from wired 's review : " ...We    re well into the era of games-for-everyone , where if dinner isn    t on the table it    s because mom is too busy playing FarmVille .
But what if she    s in the mood to trade in cartoon cows for adult drama ?
There    s practically nothing to serve this expanding audience .
That    s why games like Heavy Rain are going to be a big part of gaming    s future.Heavy Rain , which will be released Tuesday in North America , is not perfect .
But it    s a successful experiment .
And when it    s good , it    s good in ways that traditional games rarely touch .
" And the link : http : //www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/02/review-heavy-rain/ [ wired.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Check out heavy rain - I'd like to myself, if I had a ps3 :-)An excerpt from wired's review:"...We’re well into the era of games-for-everyone, where if dinner isn’t on the table it’s because mom is too busy playing FarmVille.
But what if she’s in the mood to trade in cartoon cows for adult drama?
There’s practically nothing to serve this expanding audience.
That’s why games like Heavy Rain are going to be a big part of gaming’s future.Heavy Rain, which will be released Tuesday in North America, is not perfect.
But it’s a successful experiment.
And when it’s good, it’s good in ways that traditional games rarely touch.
"And the link: http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/02/review-heavy-rain/ [wired.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256512</id>
	<title>Grown up games</title>
	<author>Patrik\_AKA\_RedX</author>
	<datestamp>1265142780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You mean the kind I can put one a USB-stick and can hide realy quickly when the boss get near me?</htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean the kind I can put one a USB-stick and can hide realy quickly when the boss get near me ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean the kind I can put one a USB-stick and can hide realy quickly when the boss get near me?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256498</id>
	<title>Re:the game</title>
	<author>Patrik\_AKA\_RedX</author>
	<datestamp>1265142600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Damn you LiquidCoooled, I hadn't tought about it for 355 days! Now I can start all over again...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Damn you LiquidCoooled , I had n't tought about it for 355 days !
Now I can start all over again.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Damn you LiquidCoooled, I hadn't tought about it for 355 days!
Now I can start all over again...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255072</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31259454</id>
	<title>Re:the game</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265127180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Damn you straight to hell, I hadn't lost the game in three years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Damn you straight to hell , I had n't lost the game in three years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Damn you straight to hell, I hadn't lost the game in three years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255072</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255438</id>
	<title>For some...</title>
	<author>Samah</author>
	<datestamp>1266945780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Now, more than ever, we're seeing many Mature ratings (M+, 17+, 18) being distributed by various national media regulators.</p></div><p>In your lucky, sensible country perhaps.  Here in Australia, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael\_Atkinson" title="wikipedia.org">this man</a> [wikipedia.org] thinks that any game other than Mario and Puzzle Bobble is evil, so we should PROTECT THE CHILDREN at all costs.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now , more than ever , we 're seeing many Mature ratings ( M + , 17 + , 18 ) being distributed by various national media regulators.In your lucky , sensible country perhaps .
Here in Australia , this man [ wikipedia.org ] thinks that any game other than Mario and Puzzle Bobble is evil , so we should PROTECT THE CHILDREN at all costs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now, more than ever, we're seeing many Mature ratings (M+, 17+, 18) being distributed by various national media regulators.In your lucky, sensible country perhaps.
Here in Australia, this man [wikipedia.org] thinks that any game other than Mario and Puzzle Bobble is evil, so we should PROTECT THE CHILDREN at all costs.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255098</id>
	<title>Grown up games...</title>
	<author>blahplusplus</author>
	<datestamp>1266943020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... I don't believe there is such a thing.  I've seen grown men in their 40's+ rushing out to get the latest Call of duty or Mass effect 2.  Games are NOT movies this call for emotionalism or "emotional depth" in a game is nonsense.  What does final fantasy's story have anything to do with being a grown up?  It's probably one of the most graphics heavy and story laden game series and yet their stories have nothing in common with anything one might consider "grown up".</p><p>I don't play games for emotional storytelling, I can get that in movies.  I play games to be a participant in the world, kill stuff, shoot stuff,  solve puzzles and indulge my imagination.  I want games to be FUN, what does a plumber stomping on a bunch of mushroom people have anything to do with being grown up?  Yet many millions of grown ups certainly enjoyed playing mario, I can vouch for the fact that my own mother got into playing mario kart series from 64 onwards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... I do n't believe there is such a thing .
I 've seen grown men in their 40 's + rushing out to get the latest Call of duty or Mass effect 2 .
Games are NOT movies this call for emotionalism or " emotional depth " in a game is nonsense .
What does final fantasy 's story have anything to do with being a grown up ?
It 's probably one of the most graphics heavy and story laden game series and yet their stories have nothing in common with anything one might consider " grown up " .I do n't play games for emotional storytelling , I can get that in movies .
I play games to be a participant in the world , kill stuff , shoot stuff , solve puzzles and indulge my imagination .
I want games to be FUN , what does a plumber stomping on a bunch of mushroom people have anything to do with being grown up ?
Yet many millions of grown ups certainly enjoyed playing mario , I can vouch for the fact that my own mother got into playing mario kart series from 64 onwards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... I don't believe there is such a thing.
I've seen grown men in their 40's+ rushing out to get the latest Call of duty or Mass effect 2.
Games are NOT movies this call for emotionalism or "emotional depth" in a game is nonsense.
What does final fantasy's story have anything to do with being a grown up?
It's probably one of the most graphics heavy and story laden game series and yet their stories have nothing in common with anything one might consider "grown up".I don't play games for emotional storytelling, I can get that in movies.
I play games to be a participant in the world, kill stuff, shoot stuff,  solve puzzles and indulge my imagination.
I want games to be FUN, what does a plumber stomping on a bunch of mushroom people have anything to do with being grown up?
Yet many millions of grown ups certainly enjoyed playing mario, I can vouch for the fact that my own mother got into playing mario kart series from 64 onwards.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31256108</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>chikanamakalaka</author>
	<datestamp>1266952560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think people should make games like 1989-1994, that was the heyday for me.  I am also into interactive fiction, lots of stuff out there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think people should make games like 1989-1994 , that was the heyday for me .
I am also into interactive fiction , lots of stuff out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think people should make games like 1989-1994, that was the heyday for me.
I am also into interactive fiction, lots of stuff out there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31273234</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1267119420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mature game, less intensive, I'd say you want "Heavy Rain". Not for me tho, refuse to acknowledge that I may be middle aged and sticking to the FPSs</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mature game , less intensive , I 'd say you want " Heavy Rain " .
Not for me tho , refuse to acknowledge that I may be middle aged and sticking to the FPSs</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mature game, less intensive, I'd say you want "Heavy Rain".
Not for me tho, refuse to acknowledge that I may be middle aged and sticking to the FPSs</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255074</id>
	<title>TFA</title>
	<author>ShakaUVM</author>
	<datestamp>1266942840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;The human experience is one that is made up of great hardship, pain, loss, death, and a multitude of experiences seemingly designed to destroy a person.</p><p>I think the authors have confused real life with video games!</p><p>There's certainly a lot of bad things that happen in life, but if you run your own life wisely, you can minimize the pain and maximize the pleasures.</p><p>I really like a lesser-known saying by Machiavelli: "Life is half random, and half under our control." While we can't control whether or not we get cancer (beyond doing certain things like not smoking and eating veggies), there is a lot we can do that is under our control, and with planning you can attempt to minimize the random events that come your way. You shouldn't expect to completely eliminate them, but if you do your best, you can get pretty good odds for living a happy life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; The human experience is one that is made up of great hardship , pain , loss , death , and a multitude of experiences seemingly designed to destroy a person.I think the authors have confused real life with video games ! There 's certainly a lot of bad things that happen in life , but if you run your own life wisely , you can minimize the pain and maximize the pleasures.I really like a lesser-known saying by Machiavelli : " Life is half random , and half under our control .
" While we ca n't control whether or not we get cancer ( beyond doing certain things like not smoking and eating veggies ) , there is a lot we can do that is under our control , and with planning you can attempt to minimize the random events that come your way .
You should n't expect to completely eliminate them , but if you do your best , you can get pretty good odds for living a happy life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;The human experience is one that is made up of great hardship, pain, loss, death, and a multitude of experiences seemingly designed to destroy a person.I think the authors have confused real life with video games!There's certainly a lot of bad things that happen in life, but if you run your own life wisely, you can minimize the pain and maximize the pleasures.I really like a lesser-known saying by Machiavelli: "Life is half random, and half under our control.
" While we can't control whether or not we get cancer (beyond doing certain things like not smoking and eating veggies), there is a lot we can do that is under our control, and with planning you can attempt to minimize the random events that come your way.
You shouldn't expect to completely eliminate them, but if you do your best, you can get pretty good odds for living a happy life.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255322</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>Interoperable</author>
	<datestamp>1266944760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are tons of games that are absolutely gripping but have gameplay so slow it would put most FPS players to sleep. One of my favorites is the Silent Hunter series. On the higher realism settings it often requires a calculator to triangulate ship positions and velocities, taking up to an hour to set up a torpedo run on a convoy. Awful to watch, but extremely satisfying if your calculations work out.</p><p>If you're looking for fun but relaxed, there's really no shortage. Simulator games abound, as do puzzle games. There's a huge variety of real-time strategy games including tons that don't require inhuman micro-managing but do require thought and planning. Many games require a great deal of intellectual energy and are very rewarding. You say that the demand is there for mature games; it is, but so is the supply.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are tons of games that are absolutely gripping but have gameplay so slow it would put most FPS players to sleep .
One of my favorites is the Silent Hunter series .
On the higher realism settings it often requires a calculator to triangulate ship positions and velocities , taking up to an hour to set up a torpedo run on a convoy .
Awful to watch , but extremely satisfying if your calculations work out.If you 're looking for fun but relaxed , there 's really no shortage .
Simulator games abound , as do puzzle games .
There 's a huge variety of real-time strategy games including tons that do n't require inhuman micro-managing but do require thought and planning .
Many games require a great deal of intellectual energy and are very rewarding .
You say that the demand is there for mature games ; it is , but so is the supply .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are tons of games that are absolutely gripping but have gameplay so slow it would put most FPS players to sleep.
One of my favorites is the Silent Hunter series.
On the higher realism settings it often requires a calculator to triangulate ship positions and velocities, taking up to an hour to set up a torpedo run on a convoy.
Awful to watch, but extremely satisfying if your calculations work out.If you're looking for fun but relaxed, there's really no shortage.
Simulator games abound, as do puzzle games.
There's a huge variety of real-time strategy games including tons that don't require inhuman micro-managing but do require thought and planning.
Many games require a great deal of intellectual energy and are very rewarding.
You say that the demand is there for mature games; it is, but so is the supply.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255866</id>
	<title>Re:For some...</title>
	<author>Nazlfrag</author>
	<datestamp>1266949920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are you kidding? Mario ingests psychadelic musrooms and crushes innocent turtles to death, blithely kicking away the remains. Puzzle Bobble involves playing a monster who uses dangerous weapons to crush and destroy. Both are clearly unsuitable to anybody apart from drug addicts, animal abusers and vandals and anyone found in posession of such depraved material should be tried as such.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you kidding ?
Mario ingests psychadelic musrooms and crushes innocent turtles to death , blithely kicking away the remains .
Puzzle Bobble involves playing a monster who uses dangerous weapons to crush and destroy .
Both are clearly unsuitable to anybody apart from drug addicts , animal abusers and vandals and anyone found in posession of such depraved material should be tried as such .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you kidding?
Mario ingests psychadelic musrooms and crushes innocent turtles to death, blithely kicking away the remains.
Puzzle Bobble involves playing a monster who uses dangerous weapons to crush and destroy.
Both are clearly unsuitable to anybody apart from drug addicts, animal abusers and vandals and anyone found in posession of such depraved material should be tried as such.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255438</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31264158</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265103660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But what crazy person will actually play all those paths. By the way: I won&rsquo;t be tens of thousands of paths. Because that would mean tens of thousands of script pages and of voice recordings being done. Something impossible in normal time scales.</p><p>Usually most paths end up joining again at a later point. Or they are ordered in a matrix of factors. E.g. one dimension being &ldquo;good vs evil&rdquo; and the other being &ldquo;stealth vs rushing&rdquo;. So in the end you end up with an illusion of much more than you actually have to design.</p><p>The holy grail of this, is a very high factor of emergence, from a (comparatively! not absolute!) very small set of rules and interface items.</p><p>But Heavy Rain definitely is a must play! Especially if one played Farenheit (Indigo Prophecy) before that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But what crazy person will actually play all those paths .
By the way : I won    t be tens of thousands of paths .
Because that would mean tens of thousands of script pages and of voice recordings being done .
Something impossible in normal time scales.Usually most paths end up joining again at a later point .
Or they are ordered in a matrix of factors .
E.g. one dimension being    good vs evil    and the other being    stealth vs rushing    .
So in the end you end up with an illusion of much more than you actually have to design.The holy grail of this , is a very high factor of emergence , from a ( comparatively !
not absolute !
) very small set of rules and interface items.But Heavy Rain definitely is a must play !
Especially if one played Farenheit ( Indigo Prophecy ) before that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But what crazy person will actually play all those paths.
By the way: I won’t be tens of thousands of paths.
Because that would mean tens of thousands of script pages and of voice recordings being done.
Something impossible in normal time scales.Usually most paths end up joining again at a later point.
Or they are ordered in a matrix of factors.
E.g. one dimension being “good vs evil” and the other being “stealth vs rushing”.
So in the end you end up with an illusion of much more than you actually have to design.The holy grail of this, is a very high factor of emergence, from a (comparatively!
not absolute!
) very small set of rules and interface items.But Heavy Rain definitely is a must play!
Especially if one played Farenheit (Indigo Prophecy) before that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255710</id>
	<title>Supply and Demand; Chronological</title>
	<author>HKatoyHToyH</author>
	<datestamp>1266948480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The idea that stuff that should be unavailable to children is automatically more mature, has been spectacularly antiproductive.<br>Example of logic: "Wow, Bobby got drunk and slept with the teacher, and he's only a sixth grader! Awesome! I'm gonna ask him how he does it!"<br>Labeling things "M" adds about 25\% interest among young teenagers, because we advertise sex and drugs as too fun to be legal.  People reach for things they think will be useful in making them happy.  For inexperienced people looking for fun, illegal looks like a pretty good start. If you're looking to make a game for an adult you're taking a lot of assumptions for what you think they will be reaching for.  Any masterpiece you create to charm an adult audience will be virtually unadvertisable, and likely will be a commercial failure.  Anybody looking should buy Okami.  They would be in the first 500 people to do so, for effect, drink a Tab soda with it.</p><p>Child Gamer</p><p>14 fully automatic weapons that can be carried at once and ready to fire in any order within a second of each other.<br>Immense piles of (crappy) enemy armor, clothes, weapons, potions, and lunch monies<br>Dead Hookers that pay you<br>Complete physical dominance over a physical world<br>Self respect with occasional awe<br>Control over an economy.<br>Really funny stuff.<br>Charming stuff that makes you a little happier.<br>A compliment that actually pleases you</p><p>Video Games End Here<br>Office Software Starts Here</p><p>Spousal apologies<br>More free time/money<br>Inner Peace/Contentment</p><p>Dead Gamer</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The idea that stuff that should be unavailable to children is automatically more mature , has been spectacularly antiproductive.Example of logic : " Wow , Bobby got drunk and slept with the teacher , and he 's only a sixth grader !
Awesome ! I 'm gon na ask him how he does it !
" Labeling things " M " adds about 25 \ % interest among young teenagers , because we advertise sex and drugs as too fun to be legal .
People reach for things they think will be useful in making them happy .
For inexperienced people looking for fun , illegal looks like a pretty good start .
If you 're looking to make a game for an adult you 're taking a lot of assumptions for what you think they will be reaching for .
Any masterpiece you create to charm an adult audience will be virtually unadvertisable , and likely will be a commercial failure .
Anybody looking should buy Okami .
They would be in the first 500 people to do so , for effect , drink a Tab soda with it.Child Gamer14 fully automatic weapons that can be carried at once and ready to fire in any order within a second of each other.Immense piles of ( crappy ) enemy armor , clothes , weapons , potions , and lunch moniesDead Hookers that pay youComplete physical dominance over a physical worldSelf respect with occasional aweControl over an economy.Really funny stuff.Charming stuff that makes you a little happier.A compliment that actually pleases youVideo Games End HereOffice Software Starts HereSpousal apologiesMore free time/moneyInner Peace/ContentmentDead Gamer</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The idea that stuff that should be unavailable to children is automatically more mature, has been spectacularly antiproductive.Example of logic: "Wow, Bobby got drunk and slept with the teacher, and he's only a sixth grader!
Awesome! I'm gonna ask him how he does it!
"Labeling things "M" adds about 25\% interest among young teenagers, because we advertise sex and drugs as too fun to be legal.
People reach for things they think will be useful in making them happy.
For inexperienced people looking for fun, illegal looks like a pretty good start.
If you're looking to make a game for an adult you're taking a lot of assumptions for what you think they will be reaching for.
Any masterpiece you create to charm an adult audience will be virtually unadvertisable, and likely will be a commercial failure.
Anybody looking should buy Okami.
They would be in the first 500 people to do so, for effect, drink a Tab soda with it.Child Gamer14 fully automatic weapons that can be carried at once and ready to fire in any order within a second of each other.Immense piles of (crappy) enemy armor, clothes, weapons, potions, and lunch moniesDead Hookers that pay youComplete physical dominance over a physical worldSelf respect with occasional aweControl over an economy.Really funny stuff.Charming stuff that makes you a little happier.A compliment that actually pleases youVideo Games End HereOffice Software Starts HereSpousal apologiesMore free time/moneyInner Peace/ContentmentDead Gamer</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31257350</id>
	<title>Re:Grown up games...</title>
	<author>torako</author>
	<datestamp>1265109720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most 40 hour games nowadays are just 10 hour games which you are supposed to play four times using different characters, changing the story slightly every time.

That doesn't really count as 40 hours for me at least.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most 40 hour games nowadays are just 10 hour games which you are supposed to play four times using different characters , changing the story slightly every time .
That does n't really count as 40 hours for me at least .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most 40 hour games nowadays are just 10 hour games which you are supposed to play four times using different characters, changing the story slightly every time.
That doesn't really count as 40 hours for me at least.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255696</id>
	<title>Re:10 year old vs 20 year old</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266948360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How about games for 40 year olds? No, not Pac-man and Pole Position, but games adults can play and enjoy now.</p></div><p>
Hey, I'm 38 and I still love Pole Position.  Some of those girls can really work the pole on stage, positioning themselves for maximum exposure (as it were).  Sure, it can be kind of expensive, but I always like to think of the dollars in g-strings as my little "monthly subscription fee."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about games for 40 year olds ?
No , not Pac-man and Pole Position , but games adults can play and enjoy now .
Hey , I 'm 38 and I still love Pole Position .
Some of those girls can really work the pole on stage , positioning themselves for maximum exposure ( as it were ) .
Sure , it can be kind of expensive , but I always like to think of the dollars in g-strings as my little " monthly subscription fee .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about games for 40 year olds?
No, not Pac-man and Pole Position, but games adults can play and enjoy now.
Hey, I'm 38 and I still love Pole Position.
Some of those girls can really work the pole on stage, positioning themselves for maximum exposure (as it were).
Sure, it can be kind of expensive, but I always like to think of the dollars in g-strings as my little "monthly subscription fee.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_24_0320234.31255914</id>
	<title>Shadow of the Colossus</title>
	<author>Vyse of Arcadia</author>
	<datestamp>1266950460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Fitting that SotC would be the first game he mentions. It was the first to pop into my head. Also, props to whoever tagged this story "Mother 3." Definitely a grown up game, and it's a damn shame it never officially left Japan.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Fitting that SotC would be the first game he mentions .
It was the first to pop into my head .
Also , props to whoever tagged this story " Mother 3 .
" Definitely a grown up game , and it 's a damn shame it never officially left Japan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fitting that SotC would be the first game he mentions.
It was the first to pop into my head.
Also, props to whoever tagged this story "Mother 3.
" Definitely a grown up game, and it's a damn shame it never officially left Japan.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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