<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_20_0118230</id>
	<title>iPhone's Liquid Sensors Can Be Triggered By Wintertime Use</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1266676380000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"The Polish website Moje Jabluszko ran an experiment that proves the <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&amp;prev=\_t&amp;hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;layout=1&amp;eotf=1&amp;u=http\%3A\%2F\%2Fmojejabluszko.pl\%2F2010\%2F02\%2F15\%2Fingerencja-cieczy\%2F&amp;sl=pl&amp;tl=en">poor reliability of the liquid contact indicators</a> (<a href="http://mojejabluszko.pl/2010/02/15/ingerencja-cieczy/">original, in Polish</a>) installed by Apple in the iPhone. They performed three different tests to challenge the LCIs, which they recorded as a movie. They decided to mimic regular usage of the iPhone &mdash; meaning, you go outside where it could be cold or warm, then move inside in a building where temperature might be dramatically different, but still within covered conditions. So, they placed the iPhone in its box for one hour outside at -11 C, then moved it inside at room temperature for 24 hours. They repeated the experiment 3 times, and after the third cycle they could show that the LCI located in the audio jack plug started turning red! This is a clear proof that LCIs are not reliable and could turn red while the iPhone has been used under the defined environmental requirements defined by Apple. Here, only the condensing water could have been in contact with the sensor. In other words, even moving in and out during regular winter time will make you iPhone LCI turn red!"</i> (In the <a href="http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html">tech specs for the iPhone</a>, Apple rates the non-operating temperature range as -20 to 45 C.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " The Polish website Moje Jabluszko ran an experiment that proves the poor reliability of the liquid contact indicators ( original , in Polish ) installed by Apple in the iPhone .
They performed three different tests to challenge the LCIs , which they recorded as a movie .
They decided to mimic regular usage of the iPhone    meaning , you go outside where it could be cold or warm , then move inside in a building where temperature might be dramatically different , but still within covered conditions .
So , they placed the iPhone in its box for one hour outside at -11 C , then moved it inside at room temperature for 24 hours .
They repeated the experiment 3 times , and after the third cycle they could show that the LCI located in the audio jack plug started turning red !
This is a clear proof that LCIs are not reliable and could turn red while the iPhone has been used under the defined environmental requirements defined by Apple .
Here , only the condensing water could have been in contact with the sensor .
In other words , even moving in and out during regular winter time will make you iPhone LCI turn red !
" ( In the tech specs for the iPhone , Apple rates the non-operating temperature range as -20 to 45 C. )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "The Polish website Moje Jabluszko ran an experiment that proves the poor reliability of the liquid contact indicators (original, in Polish) installed by Apple in the iPhone.
They performed three different tests to challenge the LCIs, which they recorded as a movie.
They decided to mimic regular usage of the iPhone — meaning, you go outside where it could be cold or warm, then move inside in a building where temperature might be dramatically different, but still within covered conditions.
So, they placed the iPhone in its box for one hour outside at -11 C, then moved it inside at room temperature for 24 hours.
They repeated the experiment 3 times, and after the third cycle they could show that the LCI located in the audio jack plug started turning red!
This is a clear proof that LCIs are not reliable and could turn red while the iPhone has been used under the defined environmental requirements defined by Apple.
Here, only the condensing water could have been in contact with the sensor.
In other words, even moving in and out during regular winter time will make you iPhone LCI turn red!
" (In the tech specs for the iPhone, Apple rates the non-operating temperature range as -20 to 45 C.)</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207632</id>
	<title>Re:Submersion sensor too small.</title>
	<author>cdrguru</author>
	<datestamp>1266598800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are no electrical connections on a liquid sensor - it is just a pad that changes color when it is exposed to water - or even high humidity.  The purposes of this is to detect that a phone has been exposed to water, which will really screw it up.  Thus, phones that have color-changed liquid sensors are not eligible for warranty replacement.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are no electrical connections on a liquid sensor - it is just a pad that changes color when it is exposed to water - or even high humidity .
The purposes of this is to detect that a phone has been exposed to water , which will really screw it up .
Thus , phones that have color-changed liquid sensors are not eligible for warranty replacement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are no electrical connections on a liquid sensor - it is just a pad that changes color when it is exposed to water - or even high humidity.
The purposes of this is to detect that a phone has been exposed to water, which will really screw it up.
Thus, phones that have color-changed liquid sensors are not eligible for warranty replacement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207218</id>
	<title>Only -20C??</title>
	<author>onosson</author>
	<datestamp>1266594420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow - why do they even sell them here in Canada, then?  Am I not supposed to take it outside below -20C?  That's almost every night for half the winter!

In fact, though, I've had my iPod Touch (1st Gen) for about 3 years, and I take and *use* it outdoors in -30 to -20 temperatures all the time - no problem.  It's actually survived a dunking in the bathtub, too.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow - why do they even sell them here in Canada , then ?
Am I not supposed to take it outside below -20C ?
That 's almost every night for half the winter !
In fact , though , I 've had my iPod Touch ( 1st Gen ) for about 3 years , and I take and * use * it outdoors in -30 to -20 temperatures all the time - no problem .
It 's actually survived a dunking in the bathtub , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow - why do they even sell them here in Canada, then?
Am I not supposed to take it outside below -20C?
That's almost every night for half the winter!
In fact, though, I've had my iPod Touch (1st Gen) for about 3 years, and I take and *use* it outdoors in -30 to -20 temperatures all the time - no problem.
It's actually survived a dunking in the bathtub, too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208362</id>
	<title>Re:Anti-consumerist horseshit</title>
	<author>overlordofmu</author>
	<datestamp>1266609300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But I remember his points because you highlighted his post and gave your opinion about how valid you thought each point was.
<br> <br>
She/He provided great content and you gave addition meta-information of reasonable quality.
<br> <br>
As far as your criticism of his progressive frustration and the value of his emotions, I feel differently.
<br> <br>
I have feelings.  And this is a place were many parts of our human experiences are shared.
<br> <br>
I find her/his feelings to be just as important as his ideas.  But this too is simply perspective.
<br> <br>
There are far more sensory signals, and ideas, at play in our lives for us to pay attention to them all.
<br>
We all tune in to different things.  To quote The Dude:  "That's like . . .<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.your opinion, man."</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But I remember his points because you highlighted his post and gave your opinion about how valid you thought each point was .
She/He provided great content and you gave addition meta-information of reasonable quality .
As far as your criticism of his progressive frustration and the value of his emotions , I feel differently .
I have feelings .
And this is a place were many parts of our human experiences are shared .
I find her/his feelings to be just as important as his ideas .
But this too is simply perspective .
There are far more sensory signals , and ideas , at play in our lives for us to pay attention to them all .
We all tune in to different things .
To quote The Dude : " That 's like .
. .
.your opinion , man .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But I remember his points because you highlighted his post and gave your opinion about how valid you thought each point was.
She/He provided great content and you gave addition meta-information of reasonable quality.
As far as your criticism of his progressive frustration and the value of his emotions, I feel differently.
I have feelings.
And this is a place were many parts of our human experiences are shared.
I find her/his feelings to be just as important as his ideas.
But this too is simply perspective.
There are far more sensory signals, and ideas, at play in our lives for us to pay attention to them all.
We all tune in to different things.
To quote The Dude:  "That's like .
. .
.your opinion, man.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207226</id>
	<title>Condensation?</title>
	<author>smd75</author>
	<datestamp>1266594540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder how much condensation has to do with it.<br>Its freezing here in chicago and walking from the bus to the lincoln park conservatory, my camera gets cold enough that it instantly condenses when i get inside the conservatory.</p><p>When changing temperatures that drastically, I cant help but wonder the non liquid stress those indicators get</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder how much condensation has to do with it.Its freezing here in chicago and walking from the bus to the lincoln park conservatory , my camera gets cold enough that it instantly condenses when i get inside the conservatory.When changing temperatures that drastically , I cant help but wonder the non liquid stress those indicators get</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder how much condensation has to do with it.Its freezing here in chicago and walking from the bus to the lincoln park conservatory, my camera gets cold enough that it instantly condenses when i get inside the conservatory.When changing temperatures that drastically, I cant help but wonder the non liquid stress those indicators get</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31209094</id>
	<title>solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266667440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Can't you just dry it out using the warm glow of a mac users self smugness?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ca n't you just dry it out using the warm glow of a mac users self smugness ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can't you just dry it out using the warm glow of a mac users self smugness?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208186</id>
	<title>Not Surprising</title>
	<author>denmarkw00t</author>
	<datestamp>1266606000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is actually already fairly well "documented," that LCIs aren't what one would call reliable. This happens a lot with other types of phones' LCIs - for example, I was able to change my liquid detection strip in my Nokia, albeit just a corner of the square, after having my phone sit on the bathroom shelf while I showered. Sure, a steam-filled room might not be the BEST place for a phone, but it shouldn't void my warranty either. And no surprise that Apple wouldn't use anything beyond the same detection methods, especially when they get to cry foul and turn a blind eye to your issues because a tiny piece of paper turned red. They're going to get you any way they can, and this is one of those "that's how they get you" ways.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is actually already fairly well " documented , " that LCIs are n't what one would call reliable .
This happens a lot with other types of phones ' LCIs - for example , I was able to change my liquid detection strip in my Nokia , albeit just a corner of the square , after having my phone sit on the bathroom shelf while I showered .
Sure , a steam-filled room might not be the BEST place for a phone , but it should n't void my warranty either .
And no surprise that Apple would n't use anything beyond the same detection methods , especially when they get to cry foul and turn a blind eye to your issues because a tiny piece of paper turned red .
They 're going to get you any way they can , and this is one of those " that 's how they get you " ways .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is actually already fairly well "documented," that LCIs aren't what one would call reliable.
This happens a lot with other types of phones' LCIs - for example, I was able to change my liquid detection strip in my Nokia, albeit just a corner of the square, after having my phone sit on the bathroom shelf while I showered.
Sure, a steam-filled room might not be the BEST place for a phone, but it shouldn't void my warranty either.
And no surprise that Apple wouldn't use anything beyond the same detection methods, especially when they get to cry foul and turn a blind eye to your issues because a tiny piece of paper turned red.
They're going to get you any way they can, and this is one of those "that's how they get you" ways.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208022</id>
	<title>Re:Technicalities of specs, vs reality</title>
	<author>farble1670</author>
	<datestamp>1266603480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>3)I don't think anyone will argue with me that the nominal purpose of a cell phone, is as a communication device that a person CAN CARRY AROUND WITH THEM.</p></div><p>you have pockets right? stick in an inside pocket and it won't get below freezing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>3 ) I do n't think anyone will argue with me that the nominal purpose of a cell phone , is as a communication device that a person CAN CARRY AROUND WITH THEM.you have pockets right ?
stick in an inside pocket and it wo n't get below freezing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>3)I don't think anyone will argue with me that the nominal purpose of a cell phone, is as a communication device that a person CAN CARRY AROUND WITH THEM.you have pockets right?
stick in an inside pocket and it won't get below freezing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207590</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207974</id>
	<title>Re:Just another way for them to scam people...</title>
	<author>farble1670</author>
	<datestamp>1266602880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>how did your lawsuit turn out?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>how did your lawsuit turn out ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>how did your lawsuit turn out?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208016</id>
	<title>Re:I guarantee the sensor works 100\%</title>
	<author>farble1670</author>
	<datestamp>1266603420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>try to look at it from their perspective. a lot of devices are damaged by water. should they have to *prove* that the device was damaged by water? i guess they'd need to hire an independent investigator to give it any credence too. oops, i guess they might as well just replace any device that has the LCI tripped<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... it's going to cost too much to prove the water damage.</p><p>now, when i want a new iphone, i just expose it to moisture until it fails<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... then let it dry out. that's the problem. if you dry out a device that failed because moisture damage, you really can't easily tell. in fact, people that live in cold climates just get new iphones every couple of months by using them outside now and then.</p><p>oh by the way, that $600 iphone now costs $1000 to cover all the people that are repeatedly wrecking their phones with moisture damage.</p><p>personally, i'd rather pay a fair price for my devices and take care of them. i don't want to pay for dummies that don't take care of their stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>try to look at it from their perspective .
a lot of devices are damaged by water .
should they have to * prove * that the device was damaged by water ?
i guess they 'd need to hire an independent investigator to give it any credence too .
oops , i guess they might as well just replace any device that has the LCI tripped ... it 's going to cost too much to prove the water damage.now , when i want a new iphone , i just expose it to moisture until it fails ... then let it dry out .
that 's the problem .
if you dry out a device that failed because moisture damage , you really ca n't easily tell .
in fact , people that live in cold climates just get new iphones every couple of months by using them outside now and then.oh by the way , that $ 600 iphone now costs $ 1000 to cover all the people that are repeatedly wrecking their phones with moisture damage.personally , i 'd rather pay a fair price for my devices and take care of them .
i do n't want to pay for dummies that do n't take care of their stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>try to look at it from their perspective.
a lot of devices are damaged by water.
should they have to *prove* that the device was damaged by water?
i guess they'd need to hire an independent investigator to give it any credence too.
oops, i guess they might as well just replace any device that has the LCI tripped ... it's going to cost too much to prove the water damage.now, when i want a new iphone, i just expose it to moisture until it fails ... then let it dry out.
that's the problem.
if you dry out a device that failed because moisture damage, you really can't easily tell.
in fact, people that live in cold climates just get new iphones every couple of months by using them outside now and then.oh by the way, that $600 iphone now costs $1000 to cover all the people that are repeatedly wrecking their phones with moisture damage.personally, i'd rather pay a fair price for my devices and take care of them.
i don't want to pay for dummies that don't take care of their stuff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207274</id>
	<title>Anti-consumerist horseshit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266594960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While it's true that some portion of your customers are going to lie when they say there has been no water intrusion, including, at extra cost a device aimed at proving that your customer is lying on every device is unfair. Let alone close to the external extremedies of the device.</p><p>Here's a prediction: First they will deny the problem, and try to cast doubt on the testing methodolgy, then they will acknowledge the problem but claim that it only occurs in a very limited set of circumstances and offer restitution but only for those who complain loudest. Then they'll make a minor change that doesn't actually fix the problem and claim it is fixed (oh and raise prices to cover this change). They'll stall at every step. This seems to be right out of the Apple customer service manual, and they're not the only ones (but they are some of the worst). No different to scratchable iPod minis, or cracked laptop cases. Fucking horseshit.</p><p>But it's Apple, it just works, right? Come on fanbois, mod me into oblivion. I don't give a shit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While it 's true that some portion of your customers are going to lie when they say there has been no water intrusion , including , at extra cost a device aimed at proving that your customer is lying on every device is unfair .
Let alone close to the external extremedies of the device.Here 's a prediction : First they will deny the problem , and try to cast doubt on the testing methodolgy , then they will acknowledge the problem but claim that it only occurs in a very limited set of circumstances and offer restitution but only for those who complain loudest .
Then they 'll make a minor change that does n't actually fix the problem and claim it is fixed ( oh and raise prices to cover this change ) .
They 'll stall at every step .
This seems to be right out of the Apple customer service manual , and they 're not the only ones ( but they are some of the worst ) .
No different to scratchable iPod minis , or cracked laptop cases .
Fucking horseshit.But it 's Apple , it just works , right ?
Come on fanbois , mod me into oblivion .
I do n't give a shit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While it's true that some portion of your customers are going to lie when they say there has been no water intrusion, including, at extra cost a device aimed at proving that your customer is lying on every device is unfair.
Let alone close to the external extremedies of the device.Here's a prediction: First they will deny the problem, and try to cast doubt on the testing methodolgy, then they will acknowledge the problem but claim that it only occurs in a very limited set of circumstances and offer restitution but only for those who complain loudest.
Then they'll make a minor change that doesn't actually fix the problem and claim it is fixed (oh and raise prices to cover this change).
They'll stall at every step.
This seems to be right out of the Apple customer service manual, and they're not the only ones (but they are some of the worst).
No different to scratchable iPod minis, or cracked laptop cases.
Fucking horseshit.But it's Apple, it just works, right?
Come on fanbois, mod me into oblivion.
I don't give a shit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207778</id>
	<title>Re:Read the next line in the env. specs, people.</title>
	<author>jklovanc</author>
	<datestamp>1266600420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Consumer devices need to be built to withstand the normal environments they will be used in. Surprise, people sometimes come into a warm building from the cold outside.</p></div><p>Quite simply; put the phone in a warmer spot like a pants pocket for a few minutes before going inside. Keep the phone in a purse for a few minutes so it can warm up gradually. </p><p> <a href="http://www.efunda.com/sponsors/inventables/WaterIndicatorTape/WaterIndicatorTape\_Intro.cfm" title="efunda.com">This</a> [efunda.com] is how the indicators work. Get them slightly damp by condensation enough time and they may indicate water. That is enough moisture to damage electronics. The Indicators are not failing; they are working as designed.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Consumer devices need to be built to withstand the normal environments they will be used in .
Surprise , people sometimes come into a warm building from the cold outside.Quite simply ; put the phone in a warmer spot like a pants pocket for a few minutes before going inside .
Keep the phone in a purse for a few minutes so it can warm up gradually .
This [ efunda.com ] is how the indicators work .
Get them slightly damp by condensation enough time and they may indicate water .
That is enough moisture to damage electronics .
The Indicators are not failing ; they are working as designed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Consumer devices need to be built to withstand the normal environments they will be used in.
Surprise, people sometimes come into a warm building from the cold outside.Quite simply; put the phone in a warmer spot like a pants pocket for a few minutes before going inside.
Keep the phone in a purse for a few minutes so it can warm up gradually.
This [efunda.com] is how the indicators work.
Get them slightly damp by condensation enough time and they may indicate water.
That is enough moisture to damage electronics.
The Indicators are not failing; they are working as designed.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207718</id>
	<title>Re:Submersion sensor too small.</title>
	<author>jklovanc</author>
	<datestamp>1266599820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are no contacts involved in this process. Look at this <a href="http://www.efunda.com/sponsors/inventables/WaterIndicatorTape/WaterIndicatorTape\_Intro.cfm" title="efunda.com">this</a> [efunda.com]. It is basically a compound that changes colour when exposed to enough water. No electricity involved.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are no contacts involved in this process .
Look at this this [ efunda.com ] .
It is basically a compound that changes colour when exposed to enough water .
No electricity involved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are no contacts involved in this process.
Look at this this [efunda.com].
It is basically a compound that changes colour when exposed to enough water.
No electricity involved.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207446</id>
	<title>Re:Anti-consumerist horseshit</title>
	<author>Entropius</author>
	<datestamp>1266596820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's Apple, it just works, except for all the times when it doesn't.</p><p>Ubuntu just works too, except for all the times when it doesn't. But those times, you can actually google the problem and fix it yourself. Apple, you're boned.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's Apple , it just works , except for all the times when it does n't.Ubuntu just works too , except for all the times when it does n't .
But those times , you can actually google the problem and fix it yourself .
Apple , you 're boned .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's Apple, it just works, except for all the times when it doesn't.Ubuntu just works too, except for all the times when it doesn't.
But those times, you can actually google the problem and fix it yourself.
Apple, you're boned.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207244</id>
	<title>Read the next line in the env. specs, people.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266594660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a confirmed and committed Apple loather, I have to say HA!</p><p>But I can also read. The line directly after the temperature limits says "Relative humidity: 5\% to 95\% noncondensing"</p><p><i>Noncondensing</i>. Even the damned summary claims "only the <i>condensing</i> water could have been in contact with the sensor."</p><p>Goodness, look at that, saying "the iPhone has been used under the defined environmental requirements defined by Apple" is like saying it's some big conspiracy that running over it with a car breaks it, as long as it's been within -20 and +45C. You can't just pick ONE environmental limit to stay within and damn all the rest.</p><p>Noncondensing, people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a confirmed and committed Apple loather , I have to say HA ! But I can also read .
The line directly after the temperature limits says " Relative humidity : 5 \ % to 95 \ % noncondensing " Noncondensing .
Even the damned summary claims " only the condensing water could have been in contact with the sensor .
" Goodness , look at that , saying " the iPhone has been used under the defined environmental requirements defined by Apple " is like saying it 's some big conspiracy that running over it with a car breaks it , as long as it 's been within -20 and + 45C .
You ca n't just pick ONE environmental limit to stay within and damn all the rest.Noncondensing , people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a confirmed and committed Apple loather, I have to say HA!But I can also read.
The line directly after the temperature limits says "Relative humidity: 5\% to 95\% noncondensing"Noncondensing.
Even the damned summary claims "only the condensing water could have been in contact with the sensor.
"Goodness, look at that, saying "the iPhone has been used under the defined environmental requirements defined by Apple" is like saying it's some big conspiracy that running over it with a car breaks it, as long as it's been within -20 and +45C.
You can't just pick ONE environmental limit to stay within and damn all the rest.Noncondensing, people.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207604</id>
	<title>Whiney bitches</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266598440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Get an ipad and shut up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Get an ipad and shut up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Get an ipad and shut up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207422</id>
	<title>What about hairspray?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266596700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While this might be viewed as morally reprehensible, but so is<br>voiding the warranty for a little bit of condensation.<br>If you put a little bit of hairspray on the sensor, would it trigger it?<br>And if it doesn't, then would it protect the sensor from condensation?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While this might be viewed as morally reprehensible , but so isvoiding the warranty for a little bit of condensation.If you put a little bit of hairspray on the sensor , would it trigger it ? And if it does n't , then would it protect the sensor from condensation ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While this might be viewed as morally reprehensible, but so isvoiding the warranty for a little bit of condensation.If you put a little bit of hairspray on the sensor, would it trigger it?And if it doesn't, then would it protect the sensor from condensation?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208670</id>
	<title>855,000 cell phones into the toilet each year - UK</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266658380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&pound;342m of mobiles dropped in toilet<br>Brits drop 855,000 mobile phones into the toilet each year<br>Tuesday, 05, Jun 2007 09:15<br>http://www.myfinances.co.uk/insurance/news/-342m-of-mobiles-dropped-in-toilet-$474415.htm</p><p>Britons are dropping 855,000 mobile phone handsets into the toilet every year - worth a collective &pound;342 million.</p><p>But that is just a fraction of the 4.5 million handsets lost and damaged every year, making mobile phone insurance more useful than many say.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>  342m of mobiles dropped in toiletBrits drop 855,000 mobile phones into the toilet each yearTuesday , 05 , Jun 2007 09 : 15http : //www.myfinances.co.uk/insurance/news/-342m-of-mobiles-dropped-in-toilet- $ 474415.htmBritons are dropping 855,000 mobile phone handsets into the toilet every year - worth a collective   342 million.But that is just a fraction of the 4.5 million handsets lost and damaged every year , making mobile phone insurance more useful than many say .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>£342m of mobiles dropped in toiletBrits drop 855,000 mobile phones into the toilet each yearTuesday, 05, Jun 2007 09:15http://www.myfinances.co.uk/insurance/news/-342m-of-mobiles-dropped-in-toilet-$474415.htmBritons are dropping 855,000 mobile phone handsets into the toilet every year - worth a collective £342 million.But that is just a fraction of the 4.5 million handsets lost and damaged every year, making mobile phone insurance more useful than many say.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207258</id>
	<title>Re:Uhhhhh... Condensation?</title>
	<author>Jhon</author>
	<datestamp>1266594780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is it's tripping a sensor within the documented parameters...  Which -- as anyone who wears glasses could probably tell you (providing they used those classes to RTFA), void the warranty.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is it 's tripping a sensor within the documented parameters... Which -- as anyone who wears glasses could probably tell you ( providing they used those classes to RTFA ) , void the warranty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is it's tripping a sensor within the documented parameters...  Which -- as anyone who wears glasses could probably tell you (providing they used those classes to RTFA), void the warranty.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207938</id>
	<title>smile white pro</title>
	<author>stelaar</author>
	<datestamp>1266602460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext> just go to the app store on itunes and u can purchase or get free apps . then when you sync your iphone to itunes they will be there!

<a href="http://ezinearticles.com/?Where-to-Buy-Smile-White-Pro?&amp;id=3381745" title="ezinearticles.com" rel="nofollow">http://ezinearticles.com/?Where-to-Buy-Smile-White-Pro?&amp;id=3381745</a> [ezinearticles.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>just go to the app store on itunes and u can purchase or get free apps .
then when you sync your iphone to itunes they will be there !
http : //ezinearticles.com/ ? Where-to-Buy-Smile-White-Pro ? &amp;id = 3381745 [ ezinearticles.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext> just go to the app store on itunes and u can purchase or get free apps .
then when you sync your iphone to itunes they will be there!
http://ezinearticles.com/?Where-to-Buy-Smile-White-Pro?&amp;id=3381745 [ezinearticles.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31213596</id>
	<title>Re:Why is this surprising?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266664200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So where's the story? Water is water. It doesn't matter if it's condensation or spilled coffee, the result is damage to the electronics that is no fault of Apple's. They can't protect their devices against every retard who doesn't have enough common sense to not expose their iPhones to environmental extremes.</p><p>Also, the tech specs only say that the iPhone will WORK at -20 C, it makes no mention of suddenly exposing it to warm, moist air.</p></div><p>You need to brush up on warranty law.  Since everyone expects their portable phones' operating condition to lie within the normal temperature variation of the place the phones are sold at, there's an expected fitness, and Apple <b>cannot</b> void the warranty.  If they sell the phones in NY, it's expected to work in the range of temperatures of NY.  Failing to do so is a design defect, and it's their responsibility.</p><p>This does not apply to electronics that are expected to work only indoors.  But that's not the expectation for cell phones.</p><p>Honestly, if they refuse warranty for anyone's phones because of this, just take them to small claims court.  They're not likely to bother sending anyone to defend themselves, and even they do, they're going to lose.  Just take a bunch of these articles with you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So where 's the story ?
Water is water .
It does n't matter if it 's condensation or spilled coffee , the result is damage to the electronics that is no fault of Apple 's .
They ca n't protect their devices against every retard who does n't have enough common sense to not expose their iPhones to environmental extremes.Also , the tech specs only say that the iPhone will WORK at -20 C , it makes no mention of suddenly exposing it to warm , moist air.You need to brush up on warranty law .
Since everyone expects their portable phones ' operating condition to lie within the normal temperature variation of the place the phones are sold at , there 's an expected fitness , and Apple can not void the warranty .
If they sell the phones in NY , it 's expected to work in the range of temperatures of NY .
Failing to do so is a design defect , and it 's their responsibility.This does not apply to electronics that are expected to work only indoors .
But that 's not the expectation for cell phones.Honestly , if they refuse warranty for anyone 's phones because of this , just take them to small claims court .
They 're not likely to bother sending anyone to defend themselves , and even they do , they 're going to lose .
Just take a bunch of these articles with you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So where's the story?
Water is water.
It doesn't matter if it's condensation or spilled coffee, the result is damage to the electronics that is no fault of Apple's.
They can't protect their devices against every retard who doesn't have enough common sense to not expose their iPhones to environmental extremes.Also, the tech specs only say that the iPhone will WORK at -20 C, it makes no mention of suddenly exposing it to warm, moist air.You need to brush up on warranty law.
Since everyone expects their portable phones' operating condition to lie within the normal temperature variation of the place the phones are sold at, there's an expected fitness, and Apple cannot void the warranty.
If they sell the phones in NY, it's expected to work in the range of temperatures of NY.
Failing to do so is a design defect, and it's their responsibility.This does not apply to electronics that are expected to work only indoors.
But that's not the expectation for cell phones.Honestly, if they refuse warranty for anyone's phones because of this, just take them to small claims court.
They're not likely to bother sending anyone to defend themselves, and even they do, they're going to lose.
Just take a bunch of these articles with you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207370</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208570</id>
	<title>Nobody exposes the phone to cold for this duration</title>
	<author>yelirekim</author>
	<datestamp>1266656580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you keep the thing in your pocket there shouldn't be nearly that much of a problem, you would have to regularly be talking on the thing for an hour at a time in cold weather to reproduce this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you keep the thing in your pocket there should n't be nearly that much of a problem , you would have to regularly be talking on the thing for an hour at a time in cold weather to reproduce this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you keep the thing in your pocket there shouldn't be nearly that much of a problem, you would have to regularly be talking on the thing for an hour at a time in cold weather to reproduce this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207996</id>
	<title>Re:Actually, that IS out of spec...</title>
	<author>hey!</author>
	<datestamp>1266603180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except there is this thing called "implied warranty".  Depending on your state, manufacturers cannot disclaim warranty for what a reasonable person would expect something he bought to do.   You can't write a warranty for your hammer that says you can't drive nails with it -- that provision would be void.</p><p>Dropping your phone in the toilet is not something covered by implied warranty.  Taking your phone from outdoors to indoors at normal humidity for each environment is something reasonable people expect to be able to do.  And in fact this does *not* damage the phone, only the sensor.  Denying warranty coverage because of a sensor that generates false positives from normal use is not reasonable.</p><p>The earphone jack is a bad place to put this sensor. It's convenient because the techs can see it without cracking the case, but topologically its part of the *exterior* of the phone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except there is this thing called " implied warranty " .
Depending on your state , manufacturers can not disclaim warranty for what a reasonable person would expect something he bought to do .
You ca n't write a warranty for your hammer that says you ca n't drive nails with it -- that provision would be void.Dropping your phone in the toilet is not something covered by implied warranty .
Taking your phone from outdoors to indoors at normal humidity for each environment is something reasonable people expect to be able to do .
And in fact this does * not * damage the phone , only the sensor .
Denying warranty coverage because of a sensor that generates false positives from normal use is not reasonable.The earphone jack is a bad place to put this sensor .
It 's convenient because the techs can see it without cracking the case , but topologically its part of the * exterior * of the phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except there is this thing called "implied warranty".
Depending on your state, manufacturers cannot disclaim warranty for what a reasonable person would expect something he bought to do.
You can't write a warranty for your hammer that says you can't drive nails with it -- that provision would be void.Dropping your phone in the toilet is not something covered by implied warranty.
Taking your phone from outdoors to indoors at normal humidity for each environment is something reasonable people expect to be able to do.
And in fact this does *not* damage the phone, only the sensor.
Denying warranty coverage because of a sensor that generates false positives from normal use is not reasonable.The earphone jack is a bad place to put this sensor.
It's convenient because the techs can see it without cracking the case, but topologically its part of the *exterior* of the phone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207358</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207470</id>
	<title>Submersion sensor too small.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266597180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
This just means they need more separation between the electrodes of their submersion sensor. Which is a problem in a small device.
</p><p>To sense water reliably, while ignoring condensation, you need contacts some distance apart and some distance from a surface.  The distances needs to be bigger than a water droplet. The size of water droplets is limited by surface tension.  About 0.3 inch is probably big enough.  In a tiny device, getting an air space that big is tough.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This just means they need more separation between the electrodes of their submersion sensor .
Which is a problem in a small device .
To sense water reliably , while ignoring condensation , you need contacts some distance apart and some distance from a surface .
The distances needs to be bigger than a water droplet .
The size of water droplets is limited by surface tension .
About 0.3 inch is probably big enough .
In a tiny device , getting an air space that big is tough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
This just means they need more separation between the electrodes of their submersion sensor.
Which is a problem in a small device.
To sense water reliably, while ignoring condensation, you need contacts some distance apart and some distance from a surface.
The distances needs to be bigger than a water droplet.
The size of water droplets is limited by surface tension.
About 0.3 inch is probably big enough.
In a tiny device, getting an air space that big is tough.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207950</id>
	<title>Re:Only -20C??</title>
	<author>farble1670</author>
	<datestamp>1266602640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>no consumer-grade electronic device is rated for those conditions. would you put your TV outside at night? your computer? same thing. just because it's a phone doesn't mean it's any more resistant to harsh conditions than any other electronics device.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>no consumer-grade electronic device is rated for those conditions .
would you put your TV outside at night ?
your computer ?
same thing .
just because it 's a phone does n't mean it 's any more resistant to harsh conditions than any other electronics device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>no consumer-grade electronic device is rated for those conditions.
would you put your TV outside at night?
your computer?
same thing.
just because it's a phone doesn't mean it's any more resistant to harsh conditions than any other electronics device.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207218</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207548</id>
	<title>Re:Anti-consumerist horseshit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266597900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt; While it's true that some portion of your customers are going to lie when they say there has been no water intrusion, including, at extra cost a device aimed at proving that your customer is lying on every device is unfair. Let alone close to the external extremedies of the device.</p><p>Well said. Good contribution to the thread.</p><p>&gt;&gt; Here's a prediction: First they will deny the problem, and try to cast doubt on the testing methodolgy, then they will acknowledge the problem but claim that it only occurs in a very limited set of circumstances and offer restitution but only for those who complain loudest.</p><p>Decent editorial insight.  The kind of thing that sparks great conversation.</p><p>&gt;&gt; Then they'll make a minor change that doesn't actually fix the problem and claim it is fixed (oh and raise prices to cover this change). They'll stall at every step. This seems to be right out of the Apple customer service manual, and they're not the only ones (but they are some of the worst). No different to scratchable iPod minis, or cracked laptop cases.</p><p>Still decent, but you're starting to get worked up!</p><p>&gt;&gt; Fucking horseshit.</p><p>Yep.  You're working yourself up, son!</p><p>&gt;&gt; But it's Apple, it just works, right? Come on fanbois, mod me into oblivion. I don't give a shit.<br>And then you just slide down hill. If you were to be modded down, I don't think it'd have been because of your opinions / insights above. It's the fact that you seem to be asking for it right here. Maybe you're proud of your dissent and want to think the comments are controversial?  Sorry, no.  They grabbed my attention and got me thinking.  But now I've forgotten everything you've said because of your silly little outburst.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; While it 's true that some portion of your customers are going to lie when they say there has been no water intrusion , including , at extra cost a device aimed at proving that your customer is lying on every device is unfair .
Let alone close to the external extremedies of the device.Well said .
Good contribution to the thread. &gt; &gt; Here 's a prediction : First they will deny the problem , and try to cast doubt on the testing methodolgy , then they will acknowledge the problem but claim that it only occurs in a very limited set of circumstances and offer restitution but only for those who complain loudest.Decent editorial insight .
The kind of thing that sparks great conversation. &gt; &gt; Then they 'll make a minor change that does n't actually fix the problem and claim it is fixed ( oh and raise prices to cover this change ) .
They 'll stall at every step .
This seems to be right out of the Apple customer service manual , and they 're not the only ones ( but they are some of the worst ) .
No different to scratchable iPod minis , or cracked laptop cases.Still decent , but you 're starting to get worked up ! &gt; &gt; Fucking horseshit.Yep .
You 're working yourself up , son ! &gt; &gt; But it 's Apple , it just works , right ?
Come on fanbois , mod me into oblivion .
I do n't give a shit.And then you just slide down hill .
If you were to be modded down , I do n't think it 'd have been because of your opinions / insights above .
It 's the fact that you seem to be asking for it right here .
Maybe you 're proud of your dissent and want to think the comments are controversial ?
Sorry , no .
They grabbed my attention and got me thinking .
But now I 've forgotten everything you 've said because of your silly little outburst .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt; While it's true that some portion of your customers are going to lie when they say there has been no water intrusion, including, at extra cost a device aimed at proving that your customer is lying on every device is unfair.
Let alone close to the external extremedies of the device.Well said.
Good contribution to the thread.&gt;&gt; Here's a prediction: First they will deny the problem, and try to cast doubt on the testing methodolgy, then they will acknowledge the problem but claim that it only occurs in a very limited set of circumstances and offer restitution but only for those who complain loudest.Decent editorial insight.
The kind of thing that sparks great conversation.&gt;&gt; Then they'll make a minor change that doesn't actually fix the problem and claim it is fixed (oh and raise prices to cover this change).
They'll stall at every step.
This seems to be right out of the Apple customer service manual, and they're not the only ones (but they are some of the worst).
No different to scratchable iPod minis, or cracked laptop cases.Still decent, but you're starting to get worked up!&gt;&gt; Fucking horseshit.Yep.
You're working yourself up, son!&gt;&gt; But it's Apple, it just works, right?
Come on fanbois, mod me into oblivion.
I don't give a shit.And then you just slide down hill.
If you were to be modded down, I don't think it'd have been because of your opinions / insights above.
It's the fact that you seem to be asking for it right here.
Maybe you're proud of your dissent and want to think the comments are controversial?
Sorry, no.
They grabbed my attention and got me thinking.
But now I've forgotten everything you've said because of your silly little outburst.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31212154</id>
	<title>Re:Uninformed at best</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1266698040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The liquid sensor is right to go off, as it should since many electronic gadgets/laptops were destroyed this way.</i></p><p>Either Apple needs to properly gasket the thing / seal the affected components, or be very up front that their products cannot be used in these very common weather conditions.</p><p>To expect a phone to fail because it's used in the winter is beyond any reasonable expectations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The liquid sensor is right to go off , as it should since many electronic gadgets/laptops were destroyed this way.Either Apple needs to properly gasket the thing / seal the affected components , or be very up front that their products can not be used in these very common weather conditions.To expect a phone to fail because it 's used in the winter is beyond any reasonable expectations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The liquid sensor is right to go off, as it should since many electronic gadgets/laptops were destroyed this way.Either Apple needs to properly gasket the thing / seal the affected components, or be very up front that their products cannot be used in these very common weather conditions.To expect a phone to fail because it's used in the winter is beyond any reasonable expectations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207662</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207670</id>
	<title>Re:Submersion sensor too small.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266599160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These sensors aren't electrical, they're chemical. They look like little circles of white paper, but permanently stain red (or other patterns - I've seen blue stripes) when they are exposed to liquid water. And, if my experience is anything to go by, they aren't very reliable. My cell has one behind the battery pack; the thing has never been submerged, exposed to rain, etc, and I look at it one day, and see that it's tripped. Good thing I'm already out of warranty.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These sensors are n't electrical , they 're chemical .
They look like little circles of white paper , but permanently stain red ( or other patterns - I 've seen blue stripes ) when they are exposed to liquid water .
And , if my experience is anything to go by , they are n't very reliable .
My cell has one behind the battery pack ; the thing has never been submerged , exposed to rain , etc , and I look at it one day , and see that it 's tripped .
Good thing I 'm already out of warranty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These sensors aren't electrical, they're chemical.
They look like little circles of white paper, but permanently stain red (or other patterns - I've seen blue stripes) when they are exposed to liquid water.
And, if my experience is anything to go by, they aren't very reliable.
My cell has one behind the battery pack; the thing has never been submerged, exposed to rain, etc, and I look at it one day, and see that it's tripped.
Good thing I'm already out of warranty.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207688</id>
	<title>Why not make it waterproof?</title>
	<author>FranTaylor</author>
	<datestamp>1266599340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really what is the problem?</p><p>Your typical keyboard is quite waterproof.  I've spilled coffee on mine several times.  Into the dishwasher it goes.  I let it dry for about a week and then it's just fine.  (Yes I have a backup keyboard). I have done this several times now and the keyboard still works fine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really what is the problem ? Your typical keyboard is quite waterproof .
I 've spilled coffee on mine several times .
Into the dishwasher it goes .
I let it dry for about a week and then it 's just fine .
( Yes I have a backup keyboard ) .
I have done this several times now and the keyboard still works fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really what is the problem?Your typical keyboard is quite waterproof.
I've spilled coffee on mine several times.
Into the dishwasher it goes.
I let it dry for about a week and then it's just fine.
(Yes I have a backup keyboard).
I have done this several times now and the keyboard still works fine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208878</id>
	<title>What really happens...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266662520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a technician at a rival company to ATT in the US, I can tell you that the LDI or LCI is usually just that, an indicator.  We see one of those tripped and then dig deeper into the device to see if there is further evidence that the device has been exposed to abnormal conditions, like a toilet.  Some of the non-full service stores may not look so deep, but all of ours will take a device completely out of it's housing before making the determination.  We're really not out to screw the customer, unless he's a douche.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a technician at a rival company to ATT in the US , I can tell you that the LDI or LCI is usually just that , an indicator .
We see one of those tripped and then dig deeper into the device to see if there is further evidence that the device has been exposed to abnormal conditions , like a toilet .
Some of the non-full service stores may not look so deep , but all of ours will take a device completely out of it 's housing before making the determination .
We 're really not out to screw the customer , unless he 's a douche .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a technician at a rival company to ATT in the US, I can tell you that the LDI or LCI is usually just that, an indicator.
We see one of those tripped and then dig deeper into the device to see if there is further evidence that the device has been exposed to abnormal conditions, like a toilet.
Some of the non-full service stores may not look so deep, but all of ours will take a device completely out of it's housing before making the determination.
We're really not out to screw the customer, unless he's a douche.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208262</id>
	<title>Working Outside in Summer</title>
	<author>kipin</author>
	<datestamp>1266607260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I happen to sweat a decent amount. In the summer, if I keep my phone in my pocket, it will trip the sensor. What am I supposed to do to prevent that from happening?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I happen to sweat a decent amount .
In the summer , if I keep my phone in my pocket , it will trip the sensor .
What am I supposed to do to prevent that from happening ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I happen to sweat a decent amount.
In the summer, if I keep my phone in my pocket, it will trip the sensor.
What am I supposed to do to prevent that from happening?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207522</id>
	<title>Exclamation Points!!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266597660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> In other words, even moving in and out during regular winter time will make you iPhone LCI turn red!</p></div><p>Yes, Apple is doing something that lots of companies do! But you'll never hear reports about those other companies doing it, because they aren't Apple!!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In other words , even moving in and out during regular winter time will make you iPhone LCI turn red ! Yes , Apple is doing something that lots of companies do !
But you 'll never hear reports about those other companies doing it , because they are n't Apple !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext> In other words, even moving in and out during regular winter time will make you iPhone LCI turn red!Yes, Apple is doing something that lots of companies do!
But you'll never hear reports about those other companies doing it, because they aren't Apple!
!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208218</id>
	<title>Take it in to get the red strip replaced....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266606540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the sensor is reading a false positive, can't you take it in to get replaced...If enough people do this maybe they will re-think even using it....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the sensor is reading a false positive , ca n't you take it in to get replaced...If enough people do this maybe they will re-think even using it... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the sensor is reading a false positive, can't you take it in to get replaced...If enough people do this maybe they will re-think even using it....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31232602</id>
	<title>Gee, look at that...</title>
	<author>EkriirkE</author>
	<datestamp>1266866280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yet another generic phone story slapped as "iPhone" to improve SEO hits.  The little stickers with powdered red dye is them have been in every phone I've ever seen for almost 10 years now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yet another generic phone story slapped as " iPhone " to improve SEO hits .
The little stickers with powdered red dye is them have been in every phone I 've ever seen for almost 10 years now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yet another generic phone story slapped as "iPhone" to improve SEO hits.
The little stickers with powdered red dye is them have been in every phone I've ever seen for almost 10 years now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207116</id>
	<title>Doubly unreliable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266593700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We do a lot of service on macbooks at work, and there's been times when we've taking a unit in for service that "won't turn on" and the user "has no idea why", only to find out they're drippy inside, and none of the liquid sensors are tripped.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We do a lot of service on macbooks at work , and there 's been times when we 've taking a unit in for service that " wo n't turn on " and the user " has no idea why " , only to find out they 're drippy inside , and none of the liquid sensors are tripped .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We do a lot of service on macbooks at work, and there's been times when we've taking a unit in for service that "won't turn on" and the user "has no idea why", only to find out they're drippy inside, and none of the liquid sensors are tripped.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207766</id>
	<title>It's condensation</title>
	<author>Ocyris</author>
	<datestamp>1266600300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My dad had a similar experience with a Sony water resistant camera however the result were quite opposite.

It was about 80-90 degrees out and he dunked the camera in 50 degree water hoping to get a close up of some trout.  That ended up condensing the air inside the lens fogging it up on the inside.  When he contacted Sony about it they were very interested in getting the camera to investigate the problem and fix it on future models as well as replacing it at no cost.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My dad had a similar experience with a Sony water resistant camera however the result were quite opposite .
It was about 80-90 degrees out and he dunked the camera in 50 degree water hoping to get a close up of some trout .
That ended up condensing the air inside the lens fogging it up on the inside .
When he contacted Sony about it they were very interested in getting the camera to investigate the problem and fix it on future models as well as replacing it at no cost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My dad had a similar experience with a Sony water resistant camera however the result were quite opposite.
It was about 80-90 degrees out and he dunked the camera in 50 degree water hoping to get a close up of some trout.
That ended up condensing the air inside the lens fogging it up on the inside.
When he contacted Sony about it they were very interested in getting the camera to investigate the problem and fix it on future models as well as replacing it at no cost.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207824</id>
	<title>-11C ? (warning - flames ahead)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266600900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>So, they placed the iPhone in its box for one hour outside at -11 C,</p></div></blockquote><p>I think maybe they should put the USERS outside at -11C</p><div><p>By the way, expressing common measurements like this, in units that are so stupidly useless is my main beef with the metric system.  WTF is a negative degree in this context?</p><div><p> and before you mod me down - (Romer didn't like using negative numbers in his weather logbook EITHER!)</p></div></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , they placed the iPhone in its box for one hour outside at -11 C,I think maybe they should put the USERS outside at -11CBy the way , expressing common measurements like this , in units that are so stupidly useless is my main beef with the metric system .
WTF is a negative degree in this context ?
and before you mod me down - ( Romer did n't like using negative numbers in his weather logbook EITHER !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, they placed the iPhone in its box for one hour outside at -11 C,I think maybe they should put the USERS outside at -11CBy the way, expressing common measurements like this, in units that are so stupidly useless is my main beef with the metric system.
WTF is a negative degree in this context?
and before you mod me down - (Romer didn't like using negative numbers in his weather logbook EITHER!
)
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207602</id>
	<title>So, it's just as they specify.</title>
	<author>Cosgrach</author>
	<datestamp>1266598440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It clearly stated that the non-operating temperature range is -20 to 45 C, so you would expect that if the iphone is subjected to this temperature range, is *will* become 'non-operating'.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It clearly stated that the non-operating temperature range is -20 to 45 C , so you would expect that if the iphone is subjected to this temperature range , is * will * become 'non-operating' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It clearly stated that the non-operating temperature range is -20 to 45 C, so you would expect that if the iphone is subjected to this temperature range, is *will* become 'non-operating'.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207458</id>
	<title>I guarantee the sensor works 100\%</title>
	<author>jeko</author>
	<datestamp>1266597060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The purpose of the sensor is not to detect water. The purpose of the sensor is to give Apple and the insurance company a technical strawman to point to as to why you're not gonna get the warranty replacement you've morally and legally got coming.</p><p>"We're not honoring the warranty because the machine says you've been bad," sounds sbetter than "We don't wanna honor your warranty 'cause that would cost us money to live up to our obligations."</p><p>It's the same function polygraphs, e-meters and other "lie detectors" serve. They're technically nonsense, but they give the organization an excuse you can't refute since it's nonsense in the first place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The purpose of the sensor is not to detect water .
The purpose of the sensor is to give Apple and the insurance company a technical strawman to point to as to why you 're not gon na get the warranty replacement you 've morally and legally got coming .
" We 're not honoring the warranty because the machine says you 've been bad , " sounds sbetter than " We do n't wan na honor your warranty 'cause that would cost us money to live up to our obligations .
" It 's the same function polygraphs , e-meters and other " lie detectors " serve .
They 're technically nonsense , but they give the organization an excuse you ca n't refute since it 's nonsense in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The purpose of the sensor is not to detect water.
The purpose of the sensor is to give Apple and the insurance company a technical strawman to point to as to why you're not gonna get the warranty replacement you've morally and legally got coming.
"We're not honoring the warranty because the machine says you've been bad," sounds sbetter than "We don't wanna honor your warranty 'cause that would cost us money to live up to our obligations.
"It's the same function polygraphs, e-meters and other "lie detectors" serve.
They're technically nonsense, but they give the organization an excuse you can't refute since it's nonsense in the first place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31269338</id>
	<title>Mucho ado about..</title>
	<author>Wovel</author>
	<datestamp>1267128180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Has anyone had a sensor turn red from normal use and then had their phone subsequently break and then been refused warranty service?</p><p>*chirp*  *chirp* *chirp*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone had a sensor turn red from normal use and then had their phone subsequently break and then been refused warranty service ?
* chirp * * chirp * * chirp *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone had a sensor turn red from normal use and then had their phone subsequently break and then been refused warranty service?
*chirp*  *chirp* *chirp*</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207800</id>
	<title>Re:Anti-consumerist horseshit</title>
	<author>jklovanc</author>
	<datestamp>1266600600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>While it's true that some portion of your customers are going to lie when they say there has been no water intrusion, including, at extra cost a device aimed at proving that your customer is lying on every device is unfair. Let alone close to the external extremedies of the device.</p></div><p>The cost for these <a href="http://www.efunda.com/sponsors/inventables/WaterIndicatorTape/WaterIndicatorTape\_Intro.cfm" title="efunda.com">detectors</a> [efunda.com] is pennies a phone.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>While it 's true that some portion of your customers are going to lie when they say there has been no water intrusion , including , at extra cost a device aimed at proving that your customer is lying on every device is unfair .
Let alone close to the external extremedies of the device.The cost for these detectors [ efunda.com ] is pennies a phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While it's true that some portion of your customers are going to lie when they say there has been no water intrusion, including, at extra cost a device aimed at proving that your customer is lying on every device is unfair.
Let alone close to the external extremedies of the device.The cost for these detectors [efunda.com] is pennies a phone.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207200</id>
	<title>Condensation?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266594300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Taking something made of metal indoors and outdoors with a big temperature gradient is just *begging* for humidity to condense on it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Taking something made of metal indoors and outdoors with a big temperature gradient is just * begging * for humidity to condense on it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Taking something made of metal indoors and outdoors with a big temperature gradient is just *begging* for humidity to condense on it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207410</id>
	<title>Re:Anti-consumerist horseshit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266596580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With apples history this is exactly what they will probably do.  I don't understand why anyone buys products from them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With apples history this is exactly what they will probably do .
I do n't understand why anyone buys products from them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With apples history this is exactly what they will probably do.
I don't understand why anyone buys products from them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31209090</id>
	<title>Re:Just another way for them to scam people...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266667380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone who repairs electronic devices often debugging the device using a can of freeze spray I can confidently say that sensitive electronics will happily keep running with not just condensing mist forming on the surface, but out right water droplets, providing these don't combine and start running down the device.</p><p>Water on electronics isn't an issue till it connects across adjacent electrical traces. Even then water that is caused by condensation is very pure and has an incredibly high resistance so even if it does start running down the circuit board of the phone doesn't mean the phone is instantly dead.</p><p>You can bet your warranty that all this will set off the LCI though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who repairs electronic devices often debugging the device using a can of freeze spray I can confidently say that sensitive electronics will happily keep running with not just condensing mist forming on the surface , but out right water droplets , providing these do n't combine and start running down the device.Water on electronics is n't an issue till it connects across adjacent electrical traces .
Even then water that is caused by condensation is very pure and has an incredibly high resistance so even if it does start running down the circuit board of the phone does n't mean the phone is instantly dead.You can bet your warranty that all this will set off the LCI though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who repairs electronic devices often debugging the device using a can of freeze spray I can confidently say that sensitive electronics will happily keep running with not just condensing mist forming on the surface, but out right water droplets, providing these don't combine and start running down the device.Water on electronics isn't an issue till it connects across adjacent electrical traces.
Even then water that is caused by condensation is very pure and has an incredibly high resistance so even if it does start running down the circuit board of the phone doesn't mean the phone is instantly dead.You can bet your warranty that all this will set off the LCI though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207486</id>
	<title>Sounds like they worked according to spec</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266597300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>"In the tech specs for the iPhone, Apple rates the non-operating temperature range as -20 to 45 C"</p></div></blockquote><p>And in the very next line of the specs it says "Relative humidity: 5\% to 95\% <b>noncondensing</b>", while the article summary clearly states the testers caused condensation to trip the sensors.</p><p>You can debate the appropriateness of the spec, but you ought to at least read it before claiming parts don't operate according to spec.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" In the tech specs for the iPhone , Apple rates the non-operating temperature range as -20 to 45 C " And in the very next line of the specs it says " Relative humidity : 5 \ % to 95 \ % noncondensing " , while the article summary clearly states the testers caused condensation to trip the sensors.You can debate the appropriateness of the spec , but you ought to at least read it before claiming parts do n't operate according to spec .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"In the tech specs for the iPhone, Apple rates the non-operating temperature range as -20 to 45 C"And in the very next line of the specs it says "Relative humidity: 5\% to 95\% noncondensing", while the article summary clearly states the testers caused condensation to trip the sensors.You can debate the appropriateness of the spec, but you ought to at least read it before claiming parts don't operate according to spec.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207902</id>
	<title>The obvious answer</title>
	<author>slayer\_ix</author>
	<datestamp>1266601920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't buy an iPhone,

problem solved.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't buy an iPhone , problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't buy an iPhone,

problem solved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207358</id>
	<title>Actually, that IS out of spec...</title>
	<author>apraetor</author>
	<datestamp>1266595920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Apple's specs DO allow those temperatures ranges. However, they clearly state that the humidity must be non-condensing. Since the phone is being abruptly moved from extremely cold to warm locations, and the resultant <b>condensing</b> humidity is the cause, it seems pretty obvious that the damage is occurring from mis-use, not from use in spec-approved conditions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Apple 's specs DO allow those temperatures ranges .
However , they clearly state that the humidity must be non-condensing .
Since the phone is being abruptly moved from extremely cold to warm locations , and the resultant condensing humidity is the cause , it seems pretty obvious that the damage is occurring from mis-use , not from use in spec-approved conditions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apple's specs DO allow those temperatures ranges.
However, they clearly state that the humidity must be non-condensing.
Since the phone is being abruptly moved from extremely cold to warm locations, and the resultant condensing humidity is the cause, it seems pretty obvious that the damage is occurring from mis-use, not from use in spec-approved conditions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208012</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266603360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have queried Apple Support in Singapore about this.</p><p>This is my post on another forum on 12-01-2010<br>The $350 stated below is in SGD.</p><p>---<br>It is official. TS got pwned.</p><p>Just talked to an Apple Support person at 800-186-1087. My comments in [ ].</p><p>She is very firm that:</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1. LSI turn pink/red means no warranty. Even for non water related damages 1 year later. No Warranty.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2. They won't do anything if LSI turn pink/red, and the phone is perfectly ok, and no trace of water.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; You can continue to use your phone as usual, just no more warranty.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3. You cannot return the product to get a refund if you don't agree to this policy.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [and they didn't even state point 1 (above) clearly in their own "Water damage is not covered by warranty" page]<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4. Out of warranty "repairs" is a flat fee of $350 to change the whole phone.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Even for any minor issues like a button drop off.</p><p>She said that</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * the LSI system is a world wide system used by everyone. It is not an Apple invention.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [don't blame Apple for this unfair policy. Everyone does it!]<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * there is a certain threshold for the LSI to trigger, but she cannot say what is the threshold.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [so it is up to everyone to speculate what is the threshold, and how reliable<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; is the LSI thingy (false positive rates?)]<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * the indicators are inside the phone.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [potato chips inside an open bowl will not turn soggy! they are inside the bowl!]</p><p>So victims will need to go to Small Claims Tribunals.<br>http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/sct/index.aspx</p><p>For those that seems to be more protective towards Apple than the consumers, don't worry.<br>True water damage will show up with other evidences when you open up the chassis. There are another 2 LSI indicators inside the chassis. Water will leave stains in the interior of the chassis. Singaporeans are rich enough to prefer paying $350, then to go through the hassle of submitting documents and attending court hearings. So I think Apple can laugh all the way to the bank by being firm.</p><p>For consumers, your argument is weak if you show someone a damaged phone and red LSI at the same time. But they don't care if you show a dry and functional phone and a red LSI. So it is LLST all the way.</p><p>----</p><p>http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2629267</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have queried Apple Support in Singapore about this.This is my post on another forum on 12-01-2010The $ 350 stated below is in SGD.---It is official .
TS got pwned.Just talked to an Apple Support person at 800-186-1087 .
My comments in [ ] .She is very firm that :       1 .
LSI turn pink/red means no warranty .
Even for non water related damages 1 year later .
No Warranty .
      2 .
They wo n't do anything if LSI turn pink/red , and the phone is perfectly ok , and no trace of water .
            You can continue to use your phone as usual , just no more warranty .
      3 .
You can not return the product to get a refund if you do n't agree to this policy .
            [ and they did n't even state point 1 ( above ) clearly in their own " Water damage is not covered by warranty " page ]       4 .
Out of warranty " repairs " is a flat fee of $ 350 to change the whole phone .
            Even for any minor issues like a button drop off.She said that         * the LSI system is a world wide system used by everyone .
It is not an Apple invention .
            [ do n't blame Apple for this unfair policy .
Everyone does it !
]         * there is a certain threshold for the LSI to trigger , but she can not say what is the threshold .
            [ so it is up to everyone to speculate what is the threshold , and how reliable             is the LSI thingy ( false positive rates ?
) ]         * the indicators are inside the phone .
            [ potato chips inside an open bowl will not turn soggy !
they are inside the bowl !
] So victims will need to go to Small Claims Tribunals.http : //app.subcourts.gov.sg/sct/index.aspxFor those that seems to be more protective towards Apple than the consumers , do n't worry.True water damage will show up with other evidences when you open up the chassis .
There are another 2 LSI indicators inside the chassis .
Water will leave stains in the interior of the chassis .
Singaporeans are rich enough to prefer paying $ 350 , then to go through the hassle of submitting documents and attending court hearings .
So I think Apple can laugh all the way to the bank by being firm.For consumers , your argument is weak if you show someone a damaged phone and red LSI at the same time .
But they do n't care if you show a dry and functional phone and a red LSI .
So it is LLST all the way.----http : //forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php ? t = 2629267</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have queried Apple Support in Singapore about this.This is my post on another forum on 12-01-2010The $350 stated below is in SGD.---It is official.
TS got pwned.Just talked to an Apple Support person at 800-186-1087.
My comments in [ ].She is very firm that:
      1.
LSI turn pink/red means no warranty.
Even for non water related damages 1 year later.
No Warranty.
      2.
They won't do anything if LSI turn pink/red, and the phone is perfectly ok, and no trace of water.
            You can continue to use your phone as usual, just no more warranty.
      3.
You cannot return the product to get a refund if you don't agree to this policy.
            [and they didn't even state point 1 (above) clearly in their own "Water damage is not covered by warranty" page]
      4.
Out of warranty "repairs" is a flat fee of $350 to change the whole phone.
            Even for any minor issues like a button drop off.She said that
        * the LSI system is a world wide system used by everyone.
It is not an Apple invention.
            [don't blame Apple for this unfair policy.
Everyone does it!
]
        * there is a certain threshold for the LSI to trigger, but she cannot say what is the threshold.
            [so it is up to everyone to speculate what is the threshold, and how reliable
            is the LSI thingy (false positive rates?
)]
        * the indicators are inside the phone.
            [potato chips inside an open bowl will not turn soggy!
they are inside the bowl!
]So victims will need to go to Small Claims Tribunals.http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/sct/index.aspxFor those that seems to be more protective towards Apple than the consumers, don't worry.True water damage will show up with other evidences when you open up the chassis.
There are another 2 LSI indicators inside the chassis.
Water will leave stains in the interior of the chassis.
Singaporeans are rich enough to prefer paying $350, then to go through the hassle of submitting documents and attending court hearings.
So I think Apple can laugh all the way to the bank by being firm.For consumers, your argument is weak if you show someone a damaged phone and red LSI at the same time.
But they don't care if you show a dry and functional phone and a red LSI.
So it is LLST all the way.----http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2629267</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207662</id>
	<title>Uninformed at best</title>
	<author>linuxhansl</author>
	<datestamp>1266599100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is nonsense. Warm air carries more moisture than cold air. When taking a cold device into a warm room, the air will enter the device, cool down and water will start to condensate inside the device. Water from condensation is just as bad as water from a spill.
<p>
The liquid sensor is right to go off, as it should since many electronic gadgets/laptops were destroyed this way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is nonsense .
Warm air carries more moisture than cold air .
When taking a cold device into a warm room , the air will enter the device , cool down and water will start to condensate inside the device .
Water from condensation is just as bad as water from a spill .
The liquid sensor is right to go off , as it should since many electronic gadgets/laptops were destroyed this way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is nonsense.
Warm air carries more moisture than cold air.
When taking a cold device into a warm room, the air will enter the device, cool down and water will start to condensate inside the device.
Water from condensation is just as bad as water from a spill.
The liquid sensor is right to go off, as it should since many electronic gadgets/laptops were destroyed this way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31210596</id>
	<title>Re:-11C ? (warning - flames ahead)</title>
	<author>maxwell demon</author>
	<datestamp>1266687300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I think maybe they should put the USERS outside at -11C</p></div></blockquote><p>For users, -11C is not a documented working temperature.</p><blockquote><div><p>By the way, expressing common measurements like this, in units that are so stupidly useless is my main beef with the metric system. WTF is a negative degree in this context?</p></div></blockquote><p>A negative degree is a temperature where water freezes. This means, at negative temperatures you have to expect </p><ul> <li>glace</li><li>bottles freezing and breaking</li><li>precipitation will go down as snow</li><li>existing snow will not melt</li></ul><p>It's the single most useful distinction there is. Going outside an -2C and going out at +2C is very different. Going out at +8C and going out at +12C is not too different.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think maybe they should put the USERS outside at -11CFor users , -11C is not a documented working temperature.By the way , expressing common measurements like this , in units that are so stupidly useless is my main beef with the metric system .
WTF is a negative degree in this context ? A negative degree is a temperature where water freezes .
This means , at negative temperatures you have to expect glacebottles freezing and breakingprecipitation will go down as snowexisting snow will not meltIt 's the single most useful distinction there is .
Going outside an -2C and going out at + 2C is very different .
Going out at + 8C and going out at + 12C is not too different .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think maybe they should put the USERS outside at -11CFor users, -11C is not a documented working temperature.By the way, expressing common measurements like this, in units that are so stupidly useless is my main beef with the metric system.
WTF is a negative degree in this context?A negative degree is a temperature where water freezes.
This means, at negative temperatures you have to expect  glacebottles freezing and breakingprecipitation will go down as snowexisting snow will not meltIt's the single most useful distinction there is.
Going outside an -2C and going out at +2C is very different.
Going out at +8C and going out at +12C is not too different.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207824</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207466</id>
	<title>Come on now,</title>
	<author>Stan92057</author>
	<datestamp>1266597120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Come on now, ya have to know apples stuff is condensation proof<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) Thats just not possible,and if condensation is thinking on doing it Steve Jobs will scream at to not too heheheh</htmltext>
<tokenext>Come on now , ya have to know apples stuff is condensation proof : ) Thats just not possible,and if condensation is thinking on doing it Steve Jobs will scream at to not too heheheh</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come on now, ya have to know apples stuff is condensation proof :) Thats just not possible,and if condensation is thinking on doing it Steve Jobs will scream at to not too heheheh</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208002</id>
	<title>every cell phone ever</title>
	<author>prodigal\_phreak</author>
	<datestamp>1266603240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>so, i haven't noticed a comment stating that every cell phone you've ever owned probably had the same sensor inside.  The triggering of that sensor voided it's warranty as well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>so , i have n't noticed a comment stating that every cell phone you 've ever owned probably had the same sensor inside .
The triggering of that sensor voided it 's warranty as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so, i haven't noticed a comment stating that every cell phone you've ever owned probably had the same sensor inside.
The triggering of that sensor voided it's warranty as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208138</id>
	<title>Re:Anti-consumerist horseshit</title>
	<author>blackraven14250</author>
	<datestamp>1266605400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nearly nobody will complain about this. It's a huge temperature difference which you won't get by talking on the phone for one minute while you're outside getting frostbite, then hopping inside to an unusually humid indoor environment.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nearly nobody will complain about this .
It 's a huge temperature difference which you wo n't get by talking on the phone for one minute while you 're outside getting frostbite , then hopping inside to an unusually humid indoor environment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nearly nobody will complain about this.
It's a huge temperature difference which you won't get by talking on the phone for one minute while you're outside getting frostbite, then hopping inside to an unusually humid indoor environment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208454</id>
	<title>Dude... no joke</title>
	<author>joocemann</author>
	<datestamp>1266697440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live in a coastal humid and mediocre temperature weather area... I have *never* gotten my phone right into water... not even in the rain; I don't use them in the rain.</p><p>And yet every single battery-area 'got it wet indicator' that turns red when you get it wet.... yep.. every single one would be triggered and appear like I got it wet or something.  I'm not even talking about putting em in sweaty or wet clothes or something, either... I'm pretty careful and this happens usually within the first couple months of owning a phone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in a coastal humid and mediocre temperature weather area... I have * never * gotten my phone right into water... not even in the rain ; I do n't use them in the rain.And yet every single battery-area 'got it wet indicator ' that turns red when you get it wet.... yep.. every single one would be triggered and appear like I got it wet or something .
I 'm not even talking about putting em in sweaty or wet clothes or something , either... I 'm pretty careful and this happens usually within the first couple months of owning a phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in a coastal humid and mediocre temperature weather area... I have *never* gotten my phone right into water... not even in the rain; I don't use them in the rain.And yet every single battery-area 'got it wet indicator' that turns red when you get it wet.... yep.. every single one would be triggered and appear like I got it wet or something.
I'm not even talking about putting em in sweaty or wet clothes or something, either... I'm pretty careful and this happens usually within the first couple months of owning a phone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208646</id>
	<title>Re:Only -20C??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266657960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>no consumer-grade electronic device is rated for those conditions. would you put your TV outside at night? your computer? same thing. just because it's a phone doesn't mean it's any more resistant to harsh conditions than any other electronics device.</p></div><p>Oh, come on. Computers and TVs are used inside, but it's intrinsic to a mobile phone that you carry it with you. You're expected to build it so that it can handle ordinary weather conditions wherever you sell it.</p><p>Which is what they have done anyway. The iPhone's been out for years, and I haven't heard of news of mass phone deaths due to heat waves.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>no consumer-grade electronic device is rated for those conditions .
would you put your TV outside at night ?
your computer ?
same thing .
just because it 's a phone does n't mean it 's any more resistant to harsh conditions than any other electronics device.Oh , come on .
Computers and TVs are used inside , but it 's intrinsic to a mobile phone that you carry it with you .
You 're expected to build it so that it can handle ordinary weather conditions wherever you sell it.Which is what they have done anyway .
The iPhone 's been out for years , and I have n't heard of news of mass phone deaths due to heat waves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>no consumer-grade electronic device is rated for those conditions.
would you put your TV outside at night?
your computer?
same thing.
just because it's a phone doesn't mean it's any more resistant to harsh conditions than any other electronics device.Oh, come on.
Computers and TVs are used inside, but it's intrinsic to a mobile phone that you carry it with you.
You're expected to build it so that it can handle ordinary weather conditions wherever you sell it.Which is what they have done anyway.
The iPhone's been out for years, and I haven't heard of news of mass phone deaths due to heat waves.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207950</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208904</id>
	<title>Re:Just another way for them to scam people...</title>
	<author>SoupIsGoodFood\_42</author>
	<datestamp>1266663060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you have it backwards. They don't put LCIs in to scam people. They put LCIs in to stop people scamming them. And until someone is refused by Apple for a replacement because of a false reading, I fail to see what the big deal is. In your case, it looks like the manufacturer is in the wrong. That sucks, but that doesn't mean all companies behave the same.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you have it backwards .
They do n't put LCIs in to scam people .
They put LCIs in to stop people scamming them .
And until someone is refused by Apple for a replacement because of a false reading , I fail to see what the big deal is .
In your case , it looks like the manufacturer is in the wrong .
That sucks , but that does n't mean all companies behave the same .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you have it backwards.
They don't put LCIs in to scam people.
They put LCIs in to stop people scamming them.
And until someone is refused by Apple for a replacement because of a false reading, I fail to see what the big deal is.
In your case, it looks like the manufacturer is in the wrong.
That sucks, but that doesn't mean all companies behave the same.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207432</id>
	<title>yea, hardly reliable</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266596760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, Apple's LCI can trip unexpectedly...</p><p>A few years back, I dropped my Motorola RAZR V3 into a hot tub. It was submerged about 3-5 seconds before I got it back out.</p><p>The phone was dead, as expected - but the LCI did not "go off."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , Apple 's LCI can trip unexpectedly...A few years back , I dropped my Motorola RAZR V3 into a hot tub .
It was submerged about 3-5 seconds before I got it back out.The phone was dead , as expected - but the LCI did not " go off .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, Apple's LCI can trip unexpectedly...A few years back, I dropped my Motorola RAZR V3 into a hot tub.
It was submerged about 3-5 seconds before I got it back out.The phone was dead, as expected - but the LCI did not "go off.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207812</id>
	<title>Effect on warranty?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266600780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are there any cases of people actually being refused service because one of these sensors has been tripped?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are there any cases of people actually being refused service because one of these sensors has been tripped ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are there any cases of people actually being refused service because one of these sensors has been tripped?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208086</id>
	<title>Re:Actually, that IS out of spec...</title>
	<author>deniable</author>
	<datestamp>1266604620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>However, they clearly state that the humidity must be non-condensing.</p></div><p>
No, they don't. They're talking about measuring the non-condensing part of the air, otherwise an air-conditioned room or a rainy day would void the warranty.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>However , they clearly state that the humidity must be non-condensing .
No , they do n't .
They 're talking about measuring the non-condensing part of the air , otherwise an air-conditioned room or a rainy day would void the warranty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>However, they clearly state that the humidity must be non-condensing.
No, they don't.
They're talking about measuring the non-condensing part of the air, otherwise an air-conditioned room or a rainy day would void the warranty.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207358</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207570</id>
	<title>Come on, people!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266598080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What has become of my beloved Slashdot?! Where are the knowledgeable nerds?</p><p>Here we are 50 posts in. We've had bitching about Apple's sneakiness. We've had bitching about foggy glasses. We've had bitching about condensation in general.</p><p>What we haven't had is someone who knows how to AVOID condensation. How do you take a piece of kit from cold outside to warm inside without having moisture appear on it? Is it even possible?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What has become of my beloved Slashdot ? !
Where are the knowledgeable nerds ? Here we are 50 posts in .
We 've had bitching about Apple 's sneakiness .
We 've had bitching about foggy glasses .
We 've had bitching about condensation in general.What we have n't had is someone who knows how to AVOID condensation .
How do you take a piece of kit from cold outside to warm inside without having moisture appear on it ?
Is it even possible ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What has become of my beloved Slashdot?!
Where are the knowledgeable nerds?Here we are 50 posts in.
We've had bitching about Apple's sneakiness.
We've had bitching about foggy glasses.
We've had bitching about condensation in general.What we haven't had is someone who knows how to AVOID condensation.
How do you take a piece of kit from cold outside to warm inside without having moisture appear on it?
Is it even possible?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31209288</id>
	<title>Nothing to see here</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266671100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Liquid Contact Indicators indicate contact with liquid.<br>Condensation is liquid.<br>It takes a fair bit to turn the indicator.<br>People living in cold climates usually have enough experience to understand that electronic devices are best kept in an inside pocket.</p><p>The Indicator is used as an obvious sign that water damage may have occurred.<br>If you ask a support droid about it over the phone, of course they are going to tell you it voids the warranty.</p><p>They have no way of examining the phone to confirm, so they have to err on the side of most likely case - which is water damage.</p><p>However; I have taken more than one Iphone that I knew for a fact had been abused and had likely water damage to the Apple Store and had it replaced under warranty.</p><p>The tragically hip chick at the "Genius Bar" listened to the problem description, ran a diagnostic which confirmed hardware malfunction that explained the problem I described, checked the LCI and advised that she'd have to crack the case to determine if the water exposure contributed to the failure, and took the phone into the back for a moment.</p><p>Two minutes later, she came back and announced that there was no internal sign of water damage, and handed me a new phone and a work order to sign.</p><p>Everything worked exactly as it should.</p><p>Now I'm not a fanboi by any means - I'm just the PC Slob who has to truck all of my employer's mac crap in for repair when they manage to break it.</p><p>You couldn't get me to switch from my Win Mobile phone to an Iphone for anything.</p><p>We've had an unusually high number of Iphone failures - and that's even discounting the two guys who I know are abusive to their gear.</p><p>Still, with the Iphone I can get immediate resolution at the Apple Store.<br>I've been prepared to eat the repair cost numerous times - it's often clearly our fault rather than a defect - but have never had to do so.</p><p>The Stepford feel of an Apple Store still creeps me out, but the folks at the Genius Bar are typically technically competent to the level required.</p><p>Anymore - that's high praise.</p><p>The only time they've failed me is when they offered to try to recover the data from a failed partition for $99.</p><p>Figuring in the cost of my time, that would be a bargain, so I jumped on it.<br>Got a call from them the next day advising that they were unable to recover anything.<br>I was able to get it all back myself except for a couple of junk files, but it did take several hours.<br>There was no charge, so they just wasted a little bit of my time.<br>Overall, I can live with that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Liquid Contact Indicators indicate contact with liquid.Condensation is liquid.It takes a fair bit to turn the indicator.People living in cold climates usually have enough experience to understand that electronic devices are best kept in an inside pocket.The Indicator is used as an obvious sign that water damage may have occurred.If you ask a support droid about it over the phone , of course they are going to tell you it voids the warranty.They have no way of examining the phone to confirm , so they have to err on the side of most likely case - which is water damage.However ; I have taken more than one Iphone that I knew for a fact had been abused and had likely water damage to the Apple Store and had it replaced under warranty.The tragically hip chick at the " Genius Bar " listened to the problem description , ran a diagnostic which confirmed hardware malfunction that explained the problem I described , checked the LCI and advised that she 'd have to crack the case to determine if the water exposure contributed to the failure , and took the phone into the back for a moment.Two minutes later , she came back and announced that there was no internal sign of water damage , and handed me a new phone and a work order to sign.Everything worked exactly as it should.Now I 'm not a fanboi by any means - I 'm just the PC Slob who has to truck all of my employer 's mac crap in for repair when they manage to break it.You could n't get me to switch from my Win Mobile phone to an Iphone for anything.We 've had an unusually high number of Iphone failures - and that 's even discounting the two guys who I know are abusive to their gear.Still , with the Iphone I can get immediate resolution at the Apple Store.I 've been prepared to eat the repair cost numerous times - it 's often clearly our fault rather than a defect - but have never had to do so.The Stepford feel of an Apple Store still creeps me out , but the folks at the Genius Bar are typically technically competent to the level required.Anymore - that 's high praise.The only time they 've failed me is when they offered to try to recover the data from a failed partition for $ 99.Figuring in the cost of my time , that would be a bargain , so I jumped on it.Got a call from them the next day advising that they were unable to recover anything.I was able to get it all back myself except for a couple of junk files , but it did take several hours.There was no charge , so they just wasted a little bit of my time.Overall , I can live with that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Liquid Contact Indicators indicate contact with liquid.Condensation is liquid.It takes a fair bit to turn the indicator.People living in cold climates usually have enough experience to understand that electronic devices are best kept in an inside pocket.The Indicator is used as an obvious sign that water damage may have occurred.If you ask a support droid about it over the phone, of course they are going to tell you it voids the warranty.They have no way of examining the phone to confirm, so they have to err on the side of most likely case - which is water damage.However; I have taken more than one Iphone that I knew for a fact had been abused and had likely water damage to the Apple Store and had it replaced under warranty.The tragically hip chick at the "Genius Bar" listened to the problem description, ran a diagnostic which confirmed hardware malfunction that explained the problem I described, checked the LCI and advised that she'd have to crack the case to determine if the water exposure contributed to the failure, and took the phone into the back for a moment.Two minutes later, she came back and announced that there was no internal sign of water damage, and handed me a new phone and a work order to sign.Everything worked exactly as it should.Now I'm not a fanboi by any means - I'm just the PC Slob who has to truck all of my employer's mac crap in for repair when they manage to break it.You couldn't get me to switch from my Win Mobile phone to an Iphone for anything.We've had an unusually high number of Iphone failures - and that's even discounting the two guys who I know are abusive to their gear.Still, with the Iphone I can get immediate resolution at the Apple Store.I've been prepared to eat the repair cost numerous times - it's often clearly our fault rather than a defect - but have never had to do so.The Stepford feel of an Apple Store still creeps me out, but the folks at the Genius Bar are typically technically competent to the level required.Anymore - that's high praise.The only time they've failed me is when they offered to try to recover the data from a failed partition for $99.Figuring in the cost of my time, that would be a bargain, so I jumped on it.Got a call from them the next day advising that they were unable to recover anything.I was able to get it all back myself except for a couple of junk files, but it did take several hours.There was no charge, so they just wasted a little bit of my time.Overall, I can live with that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207356</id>
	<title>Re:Condensation?</title>
	<author>tverbeek</author>
	<datestamp>1266595920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's an undocumented clause in the warranty that says it's invalidated if the user is an idiot who don't know how to properly care for a piece of electronics.  Like letting it cool to -11C before exposing it to humid air at about 20C, instead of <i>keeping the damn thing reasonably warm in your pocket</i>.  Sounds like the "liquid sensors" are effectively enforcing <i>that</i> clause as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's an undocumented clause in the warranty that says it 's invalidated if the user is an idiot who do n't know how to properly care for a piece of electronics .
Like letting it cool to -11C before exposing it to humid air at about 20C , instead of keeping the damn thing reasonably warm in your pocket .
Sounds like the " liquid sensors " are effectively enforcing that clause as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's an undocumented clause in the warranty that says it's invalidated if the user is an idiot who don't know how to properly care for a piece of electronics.
Like letting it cool to -11C before exposing it to humid air at about 20C, instead of keeping the damn thing reasonably warm in your pocket.
Sounds like the "liquid sensors" are effectively enforcing that clause as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207736</id>
	<title>Re:Uhhhhh... Condensation?</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1266599940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You have to take care of electronic items and not expose them to conditions of condensation.</p></div><p>How do you suggest to do it in regions where it is naturally humid and cold in winter?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You have to take care of electronic items and not expose them to conditions of condensation.How do you suggest to do it in regions where it is naturally humid and cold in winter ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have to take care of electronic items and not expose them to conditions of condensation.How do you suggest to do it in regions where it is naturally humid and cold in winter?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207704</id>
	<title>Re:Actually, that IS out of spec...</title>
	<author>poopdeville</author>
	<datestamp>1266599520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's marketed as a <i>PORTABLE PHONE</i>.  Look up "IMPLIED WARRANTY OF FITNESS FOR PURPOSE".  If the phone can't handle <i>common</i> environments where <i>people</i> tend to carry around phones, it's not a PORTABLE PHONE.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's marketed as a PORTABLE PHONE .
Look up " IMPLIED WARRANTY OF FITNESS FOR PURPOSE " .
If the phone ca n't handle common environments where people tend to carry around phones , it 's not a PORTABLE PHONE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's marketed as a PORTABLE PHONE.
Look up "IMPLIED WARRANTY OF FITNESS FOR PURPOSE".
If the phone can't handle common environments where people tend to carry around phones, it's not a PORTABLE PHONE.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207358</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31210644</id>
	<title>Re:Only -20C??</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1266687780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You should be alright as long as you play some movies on the phone before putting it in your pocket, and play movies on the phone while it's in your pocket before going inside.</p><p>The problem is when the partial pressure of H2O exceeds the dew point.  If you raise the temperature by moving into a new volume of air, then you get the ppH2O of the new volume of air, which is instantly cooled to near the temperature of the device, possibly crossing the dew point and causing condensation.  If you raise the temperature of the existing air within the device through, say, its own heating, by taxing the processor, then the ppH2O will not change, and in fact will move even further from the dew point (since the max ppH2O is higher with higher temperature)</p><p>If you're unwilling to preheat your phone every time you move from a cold environment to a warm environment, the I suggest that you simply don't have the dedication required to operate a fine piece of apple electronics.  Your expectation that a $2k device intended for everyday use should be more robust to common, everyday activities is unfounded and unreasonable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You should be alright as long as you play some movies on the phone before putting it in your pocket , and play movies on the phone while it 's in your pocket before going inside.The problem is when the partial pressure of H2O exceeds the dew point .
If you raise the temperature by moving into a new volume of air , then you get the ppH2O of the new volume of air , which is instantly cooled to near the temperature of the device , possibly crossing the dew point and causing condensation .
If you raise the temperature of the existing air within the device through , say , its own heating , by taxing the processor , then the ppH2O will not change , and in fact will move even further from the dew point ( since the max ppH2O is higher with higher temperature ) If you 're unwilling to preheat your phone every time you move from a cold environment to a warm environment , the I suggest that you simply do n't have the dedication required to operate a fine piece of apple electronics .
Your expectation that a $ 2k device intended for everyday use should be more robust to common , everyday activities is unfounded and unreasonable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You should be alright as long as you play some movies on the phone before putting it in your pocket, and play movies on the phone while it's in your pocket before going inside.The problem is when the partial pressure of H2O exceeds the dew point.
If you raise the temperature by moving into a new volume of air, then you get the ppH2O of the new volume of air, which is instantly cooled to near the temperature of the device, possibly crossing the dew point and causing condensation.
If you raise the temperature of the existing air within the device through, say, its own heating, by taxing the processor, then the ppH2O will not change, and in fact will move even further from the dew point (since the max ppH2O is higher with higher temperature)If you're unwilling to preheat your phone every time you move from a cold environment to a warm environment, the I suggest that you simply don't have the dedication required to operate a fine piece of apple electronics.
Your expectation that a $2k device intended for everyday use should be more robust to common, everyday activities is unfounded and unreasonable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207218</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207428</id>
	<title>The Question is...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266596760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is this unique to the iphone or will some/most/all cell phones have their LCI tripped if treated in this way?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is this unique to the iphone or will some/most/all cell phones have their LCI tripped if treated in this way ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is this unique to the iphone or will some/most/all cell phones have their LCI tripped if treated in this way?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207808</id>
	<title>Re:Submersion sensor too small.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266600720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The sensors are chemical, not electrical.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The sensors are chemical , not electrical .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sensors are chemical, not electrical.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207300</id>
	<title>Re:Uhhhhh... Condensation?</title>
	<author>icebike</author>
	<datestamp>1266595320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As anyone who wears glasses could probably tell you, if you go outside for a while, then come back inside (mimic the conditions of the 'experiment'), the glasses are highly likely to fog up with condensation.  Is this not a liquid?</p><p>Sounds to me like the sensors are working just fine.</p></div><p>No they aren't working properly.</p><p>The Apple warranty <a href="http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/02/20/0118230" title="slashdot.org">http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/02/20/0118230</a> [slashdot.org]  on page 2 eliminates warranty claims if the iphone has suffered <b>liquid spills or submersion</b>.</p><p>Yet the sensors trip via simple humidity changes, not unlike those the phone would experience in daily use in northern climates.</p><p>The sensors are essentially exposed to the outside of the phone, one in the ear-phone jack, and another in the 30 pin connector.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As anyone who wears glasses could probably tell you , if you go outside for a while , then come back inside ( mimic the conditions of the 'experiment ' ) , the glasses are highly likely to fog up with condensation .
Is this not a liquid ? Sounds to me like the sensors are working just fine.No they are n't working properly.The Apple warranty http : //apple.slashdot.org/article.pl ? sid = 10/02/20/0118230 [ slashdot.org ] on page 2 eliminates warranty claims if the iphone has suffered liquid spills or submersion.Yet the sensors trip via simple humidity changes , not unlike those the phone would experience in daily use in northern climates.The sensors are essentially exposed to the outside of the phone , one in the ear-phone jack , and another in the 30 pin connector .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As anyone who wears glasses could probably tell you, if you go outside for a while, then come back inside (mimic the conditions of the 'experiment'), the glasses are highly likely to fog up with condensation.
Is this not a liquid?Sounds to me like the sensors are working just fine.No they aren't working properly.The Apple warranty http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/02/20/0118230 [slashdot.org]  on page 2 eliminates warranty claims if the iphone has suffered liquid spills or submersion.Yet the sensors trip via simple humidity changes, not unlike those the phone would experience in daily use in northern climates.The sensors are essentially exposed to the outside of the phone, one in the ear-phone jack, and another in the 30 pin connector.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31210890</id>
	<title>Internal LCIs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266689700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Big whoop, they can trip the headphone jack indicator.</p><p>What about the ones on the actual inside of the phone? You know, the ones on the damageable components?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Big whoop , they can trip the headphone jack indicator.What about the ones on the actual inside of the phone ?
You know , the ones on the damageable components ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Big whoop, they can trip the headphone jack indicator.What about the ones on the actual inside of the phone?
You know, the ones on the damageable components?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207198</id>
	<title>non-operating temperature range...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266594300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The operating temperatures of 0 to 35C are completely held within the non-operating range of -4 to 45C.  Sounds like a trick way of saying the phone isn't actually meant to work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The operating temperatures of 0 to 35C are completely held within the non-operating range of -4 to 45C .
Sounds like a trick way of saying the phone is n't actually meant to work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The operating temperatures of 0 to 35C are completely held within the non-operating range of -4 to 45C.
Sounds like a trick way of saying the phone isn't actually meant to work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207418</id>
	<title>Just another way for them to scam people...</title>
	<author>Entropius</author>
	<datestamp>1266596700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The question is whether the LCI's can be triggered by exposure to condensation, moisture, etc., which won't actually harm the device. Clearly those LCI's are more sensitive than the device they're attached to to water damage. If the manufacturer refuses to honor a warranty because of a LCI positive reading, but the damage to the device wasn't in fact caused by water, then you ought to be able to sue them for breach of contract.</p><p>I had a cell phone battery fail (because of a defect), but the manufacturer wouldn't replace it because the LCI was tripped on the phone. The failure mode wasn't one that would have been caused by water damage.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The question is whether the LCI 's can be triggered by exposure to condensation , moisture , etc. , which wo n't actually harm the device .
Clearly those LCI 's are more sensitive than the device they 're attached to to water damage .
If the manufacturer refuses to honor a warranty because of a LCI positive reading , but the damage to the device was n't in fact caused by water , then you ought to be able to sue them for breach of contract.I had a cell phone battery fail ( because of a defect ) , but the manufacturer would n't replace it because the LCI was tripped on the phone .
The failure mode was n't one that would have been caused by water damage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The question is whether the LCI's can be triggered by exposure to condensation, moisture, etc., which won't actually harm the device.
Clearly those LCI's are more sensitive than the device they're attached to to water damage.
If the manufacturer refuses to honor a warranty because of a LCI positive reading, but the damage to the device wasn't in fact caused by water, then you ought to be able to sue them for breach of contract.I had a cell phone battery fail (because of a defect), but the manufacturer wouldn't replace it because the LCI was tripped on the phone.
The failure mode wasn't one that would have been caused by water damage.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208948</id>
	<title>Re:Only -20C??</title>
	<author>moonbender</author>
	<datestamp>1266663900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In fact, it's hardly unreasonable to expect mobile devices like phones and media players and even laptops to be more resistant to harsh conditions than devices that are clearly designed for indoor use such as a regular computer and a TV. For instance, I think it's terribly annoying that you're not supposed to use many of the mobile devices in the rain. And all devices should be able to deal with the "normal" range of outside temperatures of the country they're sold in, or be clearly marked as summer/indoor use only.</p><p>And of course they do work at extreme temperatures, otherwise there would've been a huge consumer outcry, I guess the manufacturers just can't (or are too cheap to) prove that they work.</p><p>Incidently, my computer is self-heating.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In fact , it 's hardly unreasonable to expect mobile devices like phones and media players and even laptops to be more resistant to harsh conditions than devices that are clearly designed for indoor use such as a regular computer and a TV .
For instance , I think it 's terribly annoying that you 're not supposed to use many of the mobile devices in the rain .
And all devices should be able to deal with the " normal " range of outside temperatures of the country they 're sold in , or be clearly marked as summer/indoor use only.And of course they do work at extreme temperatures , otherwise there would 've been a huge consumer outcry , I guess the manufacturers just ca n't ( or are too cheap to ) prove that they work.Incidently , my computer is self-heating .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In fact, it's hardly unreasonable to expect mobile devices like phones and media players and even laptops to be more resistant to harsh conditions than devices that are clearly designed for indoor use such as a regular computer and a TV.
For instance, I think it's terribly annoying that you're not supposed to use many of the mobile devices in the rain.
And all devices should be able to deal with the "normal" range of outside temperatures of the country they're sold in, or be clearly marked as summer/indoor use only.And of course they do work at extreme temperatures, otherwise there would've been a huge consumer outcry, I guess the manufacturers just can't (or are too cheap to) prove that they work.Incidently, my computer is self-heating.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207950</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208266</id>
	<title>Re:Actually, that IS out of spec...</title>
	<author>PitaBred</author>
	<datestamp>1266607320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So... having a humidifier in your house and living in a place where it might get cold means that Apple products are unsuitable for you? I really think they should make that a LOT more apparent, because as it is, it seems a hell of a lot like a bait and switch, where they tell you that you can go have fun with their devices, but forget to tell you that you can't actually have fun with their devices unless you live in a hermetically sealed environment.</p><p>How can you even think about defending that practice? I mean, seriously... do you have no self-respect?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So... having a humidifier in your house and living in a place where it might get cold means that Apple products are unsuitable for you ?
I really think they should make that a LOT more apparent , because as it is , it seems a hell of a lot like a bait and switch , where they tell you that you can go have fun with their devices , but forget to tell you that you ca n't actually have fun with their devices unless you live in a hermetically sealed environment.How can you even think about defending that practice ?
I mean , seriously... do you have no self-respect ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So... having a humidifier in your house and living in a place where it might get cold means that Apple products are unsuitable for you?
I really think they should make that a LOT more apparent, because as it is, it seems a hell of a lot like a bait and switch, where they tell you that you can go have fun with their devices, but forget to tell you that you can't actually have fun with their devices unless you live in a hermetically sealed environment.How can you even think about defending that practice?
I mean, seriously... do you have no self-respect?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207358</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31209022</id>
	<title>Re:Why is this surprising?</title>
	<author>dunkelfalke</author>
	<datestamp>1266665400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Typical crap of an Apple apologist who doesn't bother to even understand the issue but blindly tries to defend Apple.</p><p>There is no damage to the electronics in the case of some condensed humidity (condensed water shouldn't not conduct because it is quite pure and the amount of it is too small anyway). The problem is that this water triggers the liquid sensors so if the device ever fails, for completely different reasons, Apple will refuse all warranty claims because the liquid sensors were triggered once.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Typical crap of an Apple apologist who does n't bother to even understand the issue but blindly tries to defend Apple.There is no damage to the electronics in the case of some condensed humidity ( condensed water should n't not conduct because it is quite pure and the amount of it is too small anyway ) .
The problem is that this water triggers the liquid sensors so if the device ever fails , for completely different reasons , Apple will refuse all warranty claims because the liquid sensors were triggered once .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Typical crap of an Apple apologist who doesn't bother to even understand the issue but blindly tries to defend Apple.There is no damage to the electronics in the case of some condensed humidity (condensed water shouldn't not conduct because it is quite pure and the amount of it is too small anyway).
The problem is that this water triggers the liquid sensors so if the device ever fails, for completely different reasons, Apple will refuse all warranty claims because the liquid sensors were triggered once.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207370</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31209146</id>
	<title>Upgrade the humidity detector?</title>
	<author>The Clockwork Troll</author>
	<datestamp>1266668280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><div><p>
Would it be feasible to replace a defective humidity detector with an aftermarket component that performs the function more accurately and with fewer false positives?</p>
</htmltext>
<tokenext>Would it be feasible to replace a defective humidity detector with an aftermarket component that performs the function more accurately and with fewer false positives ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Would it be feasible to replace a defective humidity detector with an aftermarket component that performs the function more accurately and with fewer false positives?
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208084</id>
	<title>Re:Anti-consumerist horseshit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266604620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Son?</p><p>Really?</p><p>What are you, 65?</p><p>Go to bed grandpa, you need the rest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Son ? Really ? What are you , 65 ? Go to bed grandpa , you need the rest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Son?Really?What are you, 65?Go to bed grandpa, you need the rest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207796</id>
	<title>Re:Anti-consumerist horseshit</title>
	<author>Darkness404</author>
	<datestamp>1266600600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As opposed to the brilliant solutions offered by Motorola/LG/Samsung/Dell/Microsoft/HP/Asus/Sony/Nokia/etc right? The only reason why it is so evident on Apple products is because Apple has a -tiny- product line. Apple has what, 3 phones out? How many does Nokia have? A lot and a lot of them use radically different designs, a flaw in the Nokia 5070 is unlikely to be in the Nokia 6133. Compare this to Apple's 3 phones of similar to identical designs. Same thing with computers, look at how many different models of computer Dell has out right now, several different tower configurations, some low-profile desktops, some laptops, a netbook, an ultra-portable, etc. Compare this to Apple which has the Macbook, Mac Pro, Mac Mini and iMac line which rarely change when compared to other vendors. <br> <br>

I'm not saying Apple is great, I'm simply saying that when you have a high marketshare, few different designs and a slow upgrade rate problems come out quicker. And every technology vendor does exactly what you say, that is what keeps them from going bankrupt at the first user complaint that a fan might possibly be loud.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As opposed to the brilliant solutions offered by Motorola/LG/Samsung/Dell/Microsoft/HP/Asus/Sony/Nokia/etc right ?
The only reason why it is so evident on Apple products is because Apple has a -tiny- product line .
Apple has what , 3 phones out ?
How many does Nokia have ?
A lot and a lot of them use radically different designs , a flaw in the Nokia 5070 is unlikely to be in the Nokia 6133 .
Compare this to Apple 's 3 phones of similar to identical designs .
Same thing with computers , look at how many different models of computer Dell has out right now , several different tower configurations , some low-profile desktops , some laptops , a netbook , an ultra-portable , etc .
Compare this to Apple which has the Macbook , Mac Pro , Mac Mini and iMac line which rarely change when compared to other vendors .
I 'm not saying Apple is great , I 'm simply saying that when you have a high marketshare , few different designs and a slow upgrade rate problems come out quicker .
And every technology vendor does exactly what you say , that is what keeps them from going bankrupt at the first user complaint that a fan might possibly be loud .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As opposed to the brilliant solutions offered by Motorola/LG/Samsung/Dell/Microsoft/HP/Asus/Sony/Nokia/etc right?
The only reason why it is so evident on Apple products is because Apple has a -tiny- product line.
Apple has what, 3 phones out?
How many does Nokia have?
A lot and a lot of them use radically different designs, a flaw in the Nokia 5070 is unlikely to be in the Nokia 6133.
Compare this to Apple's 3 phones of similar to identical designs.
Same thing with computers, look at how many different models of computer Dell has out right now, several different tower configurations, some low-profile desktops, some laptops, a netbook, an ultra-portable, etc.
Compare this to Apple which has the Macbook, Mac Pro, Mac Mini and iMac line which rarely change when compared to other vendors.
I'm not saying Apple is great, I'm simply saying that when you have a high marketshare, few different designs and a slow upgrade rate problems come out quicker.
And every technology vendor does exactly what you say, that is what keeps them from going bankrupt at the first user complaint that a fan might possibly be loud.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208344</id>
	<title>How does apple actually respond</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266608820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ok, I understand the somewhat conspiracy-theory concern over the fact that the sensors are too sensitive and give false positives.  And frankly, I agree with you.  But how is Apple actually using the sensor?  Are there reported cases of Apple refusing warranty over false positives from the sensor?  Or do they simply use it as an indicator when debugging and looking for possible problems?  If they use it as the final answer, then that is wrong, but if they use it as only one piece of a larger puzzle, that seems completely reasonable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok , I understand the somewhat conspiracy-theory concern over the fact that the sensors are too sensitive and give false positives .
And frankly , I agree with you .
But how is Apple actually using the sensor ?
Are there reported cases of Apple refusing warranty over false positives from the sensor ?
Or do they simply use it as an indicator when debugging and looking for possible problems ?
If they use it as the final answer , then that is wrong , but if they use it as only one piece of a larger puzzle , that seems completely reasonable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok, I understand the somewhat conspiracy-theory concern over the fact that the sensors are too sensitive and give false positives.
And frankly, I agree with you.
But how is Apple actually using the sensor?
Are there reported cases of Apple refusing warranty over false positives from the sensor?
Or do they simply use it as an indicator when debugging and looking for possible problems?
If they use it as the final answer, then that is wrong, but if they use it as only one piece of a larger puzzle, that seems completely reasonable.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31211660</id>
	<title>Yeah, I know, Wikipedia is almost as evil as Apple</title>
	<author>Lars T.</author>
	<datestamp>1266695220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What more proof do we need than what it says about the subject: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humidity#Effects\_on\_electronics" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humidity#Effects\_on\_electronics</a> [wikipedia.org] <p><div class="quote"><p>A particular danger to electronic items, regardless of the stated operating humidity range, is condensation. When an electronic item is moved from a cold place (eg garage, car, shed, an air conditioned space in the tropics) to a warm humid place (house, outside tropics), condensation may coat circuit boards and other insulators, leading to short circuit inside the equipment. Such short circuits may cause substantial permanent damage if the equipment is powered on before the condensation has evaporated. A similar condensation effect can often be observed when a person wearing glasses comes in from the cold. It is advisable to allow electronic equipment to acclimatise for several hours, after being brought in from the cold, before powering on. The inverse is also true.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What more proof do we need than what it says about the subject : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humidity # Effects \ _on \ _electronics [ wikipedia.org ] A particular danger to electronic items , regardless of the stated operating humidity range , is condensation .
When an electronic item is moved from a cold place ( eg garage , car , shed , an air conditioned space in the tropics ) to a warm humid place ( house , outside tropics ) , condensation may coat circuit boards and other insulators , leading to short circuit inside the equipment .
Such short circuits may cause substantial permanent damage if the equipment is powered on before the condensation has evaporated .
A similar condensation effect can often be observed when a person wearing glasses comes in from the cold .
It is advisable to allow electronic equipment to acclimatise for several hours , after being brought in from the cold , before powering on .
The inverse is also true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What more proof do we need than what it says about the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humidity#Effects\_on\_electronics [wikipedia.org] A particular danger to electronic items, regardless of the stated operating humidity range, is condensation.
When an electronic item is moved from a cold place (eg garage, car, shed, an air conditioned space in the tropics) to a warm humid place (house, outside tropics), condensation may coat circuit boards and other insulators, leading to short circuit inside the equipment.
Such short circuits may cause substantial permanent damage if the equipment is powered on before the condensation has evaporated.
A similar condensation effect can often be observed when a person wearing glasses comes in from the cold.
It is advisable to allow electronic equipment to acclimatise for several hours, after being brought in from the cold, before powering on.
The inverse is also true.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208280</id>
	<title>Re:What are the sensors made of?</title>
	<author>jklovanc</author>
	<datestamp>1266607500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They are probably <a href="http://www.efunda.com/sponsors/inventables/WaterIndicatorTape/WaterIndicatorTape\_Intro.cfm" title="efunda.com">these</a> [efunda.com].</htmltext>
<tokenext>They are probably these [ efunda.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are probably these [efunda.com].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207322</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207322</id>
	<title>What are the sensors made of?</title>
	<author>Psychotic\_Wrath</author>
	<datestamp>1266595560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know that the sensors turn red or a different color when they get wet, is this because they litmus paper? I have thought that they could change colors because of the pH of water. Does anybody know exactly what causes the color change. What the sensor is made of.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know that the sensors turn red or a different color when they get wet , is this because they litmus paper ?
I have thought that they could change colors because of the pH of water .
Does anybody know exactly what causes the color change .
What the sensor is made of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know that the sensors turn red or a different color when they get wet, is this because they litmus paper?
I have thought that they could change colors because of the pH of water.
Does anybody know exactly what causes the color change.
What the sensor is made of.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207888</id>
	<title>Celebrity Teeth Whitening</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266601680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>such a really great post. and thanks for shearing a nice info..
<a href="http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/celebrity-white-teeth-review-does-celebrity-teeth-whitening-work-1854997.html" title="articlesbase.com" rel="nofollow">Celebrity Teeth Whitening</a> [articlesbase.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>such a really great post .
and thanks for shearing a nice info. . Celebrity Teeth Whitening [ articlesbase.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>such a really great post.
and thanks for shearing a nice info..
Celebrity Teeth Whitening [articlesbase.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207724</id>
	<title>iphone marketing strategy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266599820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Apple wants you to buy expensive waterproof sleeves for your iPhones so your warranty wont get void! Apple gets revenues from customers buying waterproof sleeves!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Apple wants you to buy expensive waterproof sleeves for your iPhones so your warranty wont get void !
Apple gets revenues from customers buying waterproof sleeves !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apple wants you to buy expensive waterproof sleeves for your iPhones so your warranty wont get void!
Apple gets revenues from customers buying waterproof sleeves!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207370</id>
	<title>Why is this surprising?</title>
	<author>Sitnalta</author>
	<datestamp>1266596040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So where's the story? Water is water. It doesn't matter if it's condensation or spilled coffee, the result is damage to the electronics that is no fault of Apple's. They can't protect their devices against every retard who doesn't have enough common sense to not expose their iPhones to environmental extremes.</p><p>Also, the tech specs only say that the iPhone will WORK at -20 C, it makes no mention of suddenly exposing it to warm, moist air.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So where 's the story ?
Water is water .
It does n't matter if it 's condensation or spilled coffee , the result is damage to the electronics that is no fault of Apple 's .
They ca n't protect their devices against every retard who does n't have enough common sense to not expose their iPhones to environmental extremes.Also , the tech specs only say that the iPhone will WORK at -20 C , it makes no mention of suddenly exposing it to warm , moist air .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So where's the story?
Water is water.
It doesn't matter if it's condensation or spilled coffee, the result is damage to the electronics that is no fault of Apple's.
They can't protect their devices against every retard who doesn't have enough common sense to not expose their iPhones to environmental extremes.Also, the tech specs only say that the iPhone will WORK at -20 C, it makes no mention of suddenly exposing it to warm, moist air.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207416</id>
	<title>Re:Read the next line in the env. specs, people.</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1266596700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The environment the phone was in was noncondensing. The environment IN the phone was condensing but how is the consumer to control that?</p><p>Consumer devices need to be built to withstand the normal environments they will be used in. Surprise, people sometimes come into a warm building from the cold outside.</p><p>If Apple gave half a crap about their users, they'd spring for the penny it would cost to shoot the insides with a bit of waterproofing spray rather than warranty void excuses before welding the back on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The environment the phone was in was noncondensing .
The environment IN the phone was condensing but how is the consumer to control that ? Consumer devices need to be built to withstand the normal environments they will be used in .
Surprise , people sometimes come into a warm building from the cold outside.If Apple gave half a crap about their users , they 'd spring for the penny it would cost to shoot the insides with a bit of waterproofing spray rather than warranty void excuses before welding the back on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The environment the phone was in was noncondensing.
The environment IN the phone was condensing but how is the consumer to control that?Consumer devices need to be built to withstand the normal environments they will be used in.
Surprise, people sometimes come into a warm building from the cold outside.If Apple gave half a crap about their users, they'd spring for the penny it would cost to shoot the insides with a bit of waterproofing spray rather than warranty void excuses before welding the back on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207244</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31208092</id>
	<title>Re:Submersion sensor too small.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266604680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These submersion sensors are different than what you're thinking. They produce a chemical reaction with liquid water to turn pink.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These submersion sensors are different than what you 're thinking .
They produce a chemical reaction with liquid water to turn pink .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These submersion sensors are different than what you're thinking.
They produce a chemical reaction with liquid water to turn pink.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31213576</id>
	<title>Re:Effect on warranty?</title>
	<author>Billly Gates</author>
	<datestamp>1266664080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yep. This is especially true if you buy the phone in some small repair and sales cell phone shops.</p><p>If the water damage paper is red you are SOL and will need to buy a new phone. Its standard practice in many shops and a great money maker.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep .
This is especially true if you buy the phone in some small repair and sales cell phone shops.If the water damage paper is red you are SOL and will need to buy a new phone .
Its standard practice in many shops and a great money maker .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep.
This is especially true if you buy the phone in some small repair and sales cell phone shops.If the water damage paper is red you are SOL and will need to buy a new phone.
Its standard practice in many shops and a great money maker.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207812</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207878</id>
	<title>Re:Read the next line in the env. specs, people.</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1266601620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
The humidity rating as given for the iPhone <b>IS</b> the range of the noncondensing humidity. As in, the percentage of moisture in the air that is non-condensed.
</p><p>
noncondensing means the  "condensing portion"  is excluded.
</p><p>
The fact that some condensation is occuring does not mean you are outside the operational humidity specification.
</p><p>
If  they didn't say <b>noncondensing</b>,  then it would mean the humidity exposure would have to be considered 100\%  when condensation is occuring.
</p><p>
By saying "condensation",  in fact,  the humidity can be  95\% or less and considered within specification, even as condensation is occuring.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The humidity rating as given for the iPhone IS the range of the noncondensing humidity .
As in , the percentage of moisture in the air that is non-condensed .
noncondensing means the " condensing portion " is excluded .
The fact that some condensation is occuring does not mean you are outside the operational humidity specification .
If they did n't say noncondensing , then it would mean the humidity exposure would have to be considered 100 \ % when condensation is occuring .
By saying " condensation " , in fact , the humidity can be 95 \ % or less and considered within specification , even as condensation is occuring .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
The humidity rating as given for the iPhone IS the range of the noncondensing humidity.
As in, the percentage of moisture in the air that is non-condensed.
noncondensing means the  "condensing portion"  is excluded.
The fact that some condensation is occuring does not mean you are outside the operational humidity specification.
If  they didn't say noncondensing,  then it would mean the humidity exposure would have to be considered 100\%  when condensation is occuring.
By saying "condensation",  in fact,  the humidity can be  95\% or less and considered within specification, even as condensation is occuring.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207244</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207930</id>
	<title>So.. do we just love to hate things....</title>
	<author>iceT</author>
	<datestamp>1266602340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure... the HCI in the audio jack could change color.  That's why there is supposedly a SECOND HCI on the inside of the unit.  They'll open it up to examine the second one as well...  2 spots.. relatively far apart...  and the 2nd one would probably be less subject to condensation.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure... the HCI in the audio jack could change color .
That 's why there is supposedly a SECOND HCI on the inside of the unit .
They 'll open it up to examine the second one as well... 2 spots.. relatively far apart... and the 2nd one would probably be less subject to condensation .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure... the HCI in the audio jack could change color.
That's why there is supposedly a SECOND HCI on the inside of the unit.
They'll open it up to examine the second one as well...  2 spots.. relatively far apart...  and the 2nd one would probably be less subject to condensation.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207590</id>
	<title>Technicalities of specs, vs reality</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266598200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1)Apple sells this phone in northerly climates (Canada for one)</p><p>2)Apple specs that it can be (when turned off) in environments down to -20 Celsius</p><p>3)I don't think anyone will argue with me that the nominal purpose of a cell phone, is as a communication device that a person CAN CARRY AROUND WITH THEM.</p><p>Combining these 3 facts, I think a reasonable person would conclude that they can take the phone in and out of the house with them when it is warmer than -20 C outside.</p><p>Thus, It seems reasonable that the warranty should still apply when this "reasonable person" has taken the phone in and out of the house at, oh, say -15 C</p><p>However, this test shows that doing so can trigger the humidity sensor, thereby voiding the warranty.  Even though the person has not done anything unreasonable.</p><p>The think that I think some of you (who live in warmer climates?) are missing is this: the environment changes used in this test simulate normal daily use for those of us who live in colder climates.</p><p>Also, I doubt this issue is limited to iPhones:  I had at least one motorola phone's warranty voided by the water sensor, even though I was unaware of having ever gotten the phone wet.   This article could finally explain that issue as well...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) Apple sells this phone in northerly climates ( Canada for one ) 2 ) Apple specs that it can be ( when turned off ) in environments down to -20 Celsius3 ) I do n't think anyone will argue with me that the nominal purpose of a cell phone , is as a communication device that a person CAN CARRY AROUND WITH THEM.Combining these 3 facts , I think a reasonable person would conclude that they can take the phone in and out of the house with them when it is warmer than -20 C outside.Thus , It seems reasonable that the warranty should still apply when this " reasonable person " has taken the phone in and out of the house at , oh , say -15 CHowever , this test shows that doing so can trigger the humidity sensor , thereby voiding the warranty .
Even though the person has not done anything unreasonable.The think that I think some of you ( who live in warmer climates ?
) are missing is this : the environment changes used in this test simulate normal daily use for those of us who live in colder climates.Also , I doubt this issue is limited to iPhones : I had at least one motorola phone 's warranty voided by the water sensor , even though I was unaware of having ever gotten the phone wet .
This article could finally explain that issue as well.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1)Apple sells this phone in northerly climates (Canada for one)2)Apple specs that it can be (when turned off) in environments down to -20 Celsius3)I don't think anyone will argue with me that the nominal purpose of a cell phone, is as a communication device that a person CAN CARRY AROUND WITH THEM.Combining these 3 facts, I think a reasonable person would conclude that they can take the phone in and out of the house with them when it is warmer than -20 C outside.Thus, It seems reasonable that the warranty should still apply when this "reasonable person" has taken the phone in and out of the house at, oh, say -15 CHowever, this test shows that doing so can trigger the humidity sensor, thereby voiding the warranty.
Even though the person has not done anything unreasonable.The think that I think some of you (who live in warmer climates?
) are missing is this: the environment changes used in this test simulate normal daily use for those of us who live in colder climates.Also, I doubt this issue is limited to iPhones:  I had at least one motorola phone's warranty voided by the water sensor, even though I was unaware of having ever gotten the phone wet.
This article could finally explain that issue as well...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207756</id>
	<title>Re:Submersion sensor too small.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266600060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This just means they need more separation between the electrodes of their submersion sensor. Which is a problem in a small device.</p><p>To sense water reliably, while ignoring condensation, you need contacts some distance apart and some distance from a surface.  The distances needs to be bigger than a water droplet. The size of water droplets is limited by surface tension.  About 0.3 inch is probably big enough.  In a tiny device, getting an air space that big is tough.</p></div><p>Parent post is totally wrong. How in the hell did this get modded up?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This just means they need more separation between the electrodes of their submersion sensor .
Which is a problem in a small device.To sense water reliably , while ignoring condensation , you need contacts some distance apart and some distance from a surface .
The distances needs to be bigger than a water droplet .
The size of water droplets is limited by surface tension .
About 0.3 inch is probably big enough .
In a tiny device , getting an air space that big is tough.Parent post is totally wrong .
How in the hell did this get modded up ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This just means they need more separation between the electrodes of their submersion sensor.
Which is a problem in a small device.To sense water reliably, while ignoring condensation, you need contacts some distance apart and some distance from a surface.
The distances needs to be bigger than a water droplet.
The size of water droplets is limited by surface tension.
About 0.3 inch is probably big enough.
In a tiny device, getting an air space that big is tough.Parent post is totally wrong.
How in the hell did this get modded up?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207470</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31212594</id>
	<title>Condensate is a noun.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266657420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Half a dozen posters here have said "This causes water to condensate inside the phone" or something equivalent.</p><p>Please don't do this.</p><p>"Condensate" is a noun, not a verb.  The verb is "condense."  Using "condensate" in this context is just silly, since we have a perfectly good word in the form of "condense".</p><p>In before "verbing a noun is perfectly cromulent."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Half a dozen posters here have said " This causes water to condensate inside the phone " or something equivalent.Please do n't do this .
" Condensate " is a noun , not a verb .
The verb is " condense .
" Using " condensate " in this context is just silly , since we have a perfectly good word in the form of " condense " .In before " verbing a noun is perfectly cromulent .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Half a dozen posters here have said "This causes water to condensate inside the phone" or something equivalent.Please don't do this.
"Condensate" is a noun, not a verb.
The verb is "condense.
"  Using "condensate" in this context is just silly, since we have a perfectly good word in the form of "condense".In before "verbing a noun is perfectly cromulent.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207502</id>
	<title>Re:Uhhhhh... Condensation?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266597480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have to take care of electronic items and not expose them to conditions of condensation.</p><p>Not doing that is - aside from being retarded - something which rightly voids the warranty.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have to take care of electronic items and not expose them to conditions of condensation.Not doing that is - aside from being retarded - something which rightly voids the warranty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have to take care of electronic items and not expose them to conditions of condensation.Not doing that is - aside from being retarded - something which rightly voids the warranty.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207300</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31212516</id>
	<title>Re:Anti-consumerist horseshit</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1266657060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not your son, you condescending twit.</p><p>Did you actually have anything to contribute? I notice your vapid commentary got +5 insightful and as predicted I got modded down. Any time I mention that Apple isn't quite the darling company some believe it is I get modded down. Nothing to do with getting worked up. Apple fanbois SUCK.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not your son , you condescending twit.Did you actually have anything to contribute ?
I notice your vapid commentary got + 5 insightful and as predicted I got modded down .
Any time I mention that Apple is n't quite the darling company some believe it is I get modded down .
Nothing to do with getting worked up .
Apple fanbois SUCK .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not your son, you condescending twit.Did you actually have anything to contribute?
I notice your vapid commentary got +5 insightful and as predicted I got modded down.
Any time I mention that Apple isn't quite the darling company some believe it is I get modded down.
Nothing to do with getting worked up.
Apple fanbois SUCK.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207392</id>
	<title>Re:What are the sensors made of?</title>
	<author>the brown guy</author>
	<datestamp>1266596340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not sure what's used in these indicator strips but it's not litmus paper. FYI, the pH of water is 7, so it would have nothing to do with the color changing.</p><p>I successfully returned my water damaged phone to Bell by removing the water indicator sticker and replacing it with one I made myself using paper. It would have been very easy to detect but I got lucky I guess.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure what 's used in these indicator strips but it 's not litmus paper .
FYI , the pH of water is 7 , so it would have nothing to do with the color changing.I successfully returned my water damaged phone to Bell by removing the water indicator sticker and replacing it with one I made myself using paper .
It would have been very easy to detect but I got lucky I guess .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure what's used in these indicator strips but it's not litmus paper.
FYI, the pH of water is 7, so it would have nothing to do with the color changing.I successfully returned my water damaged phone to Bell by removing the water indicator sticker and replacing it with one I made myself using paper.
It would have been very easy to detect but I got lucky I guess.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207322</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31211826</id>
	<title>Re:Uhhhhh... Condensation?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266696000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A little bit of silicone sealant or hot melt glue during manufacturing could easily make the connectors themselves watertight. The only fault then would be from corrosion on the contact terminals themselves rather than water/moisture intruding into the case via air gaps on and around the connectors. Now before arguing about some other aspects, speakers and touch panels can work fine through water-proof membranes without adversely affecting quality. Also on small portable devices you shouldn't need the connectors to act as vents either, the casing should be thin or thermally conductive enough to keep things from overheating. If the device was designed right, it would be reasonable to expect it to be as water resistant as most wristwatches. If I can get a $30 watch that's 30m watertight, then why not for a $300 gizmo?</p><p>It looks pretty, but if they designed it to be more practical - internal moisture sensors wouldn't trip unless the device was exposed to some degree of water pressure. That means getting it wet or putting it somewhere humid wouldn't bother it (unless terminals corrode - which is usually easy to fix by repeated plugging-unplugging), but it would be expected for the seals to fail if you went swimming with it.</p><p>My guess is that the reason Apple doesn't make the devices to a higher spec of water-resistance is they don't expect that degree of QC to be upheld by the factories in China. Otherwise such devices could be made to occasionally be dunked or get wet with no problems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A little bit of silicone sealant or hot melt glue during manufacturing could easily make the connectors themselves watertight .
The only fault then would be from corrosion on the contact terminals themselves rather than water/moisture intruding into the case via air gaps on and around the connectors .
Now before arguing about some other aspects , speakers and touch panels can work fine through water-proof membranes without adversely affecting quality .
Also on small portable devices you should n't need the connectors to act as vents either , the casing should be thin or thermally conductive enough to keep things from overheating .
If the device was designed right , it would be reasonable to expect it to be as water resistant as most wristwatches .
If I can get a $ 30 watch that 's 30m watertight , then why not for a $ 300 gizmo ? It looks pretty , but if they designed it to be more practical - internal moisture sensors would n't trip unless the device was exposed to some degree of water pressure .
That means getting it wet or putting it somewhere humid would n't bother it ( unless terminals corrode - which is usually easy to fix by repeated plugging-unplugging ) , but it would be expected for the seals to fail if you went swimming with it.My guess is that the reason Apple does n't make the devices to a higher spec of water-resistance is they do n't expect that degree of QC to be upheld by the factories in China .
Otherwise such devices could be made to occasionally be dunked or get wet with no problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A little bit of silicone sealant or hot melt glue during manufacturing could easily make the connectors themselves watertight.
The only fault then would be from corrosion on the contact terminals themselves rather than water/moisture intruding into the case via air gaps on and around the connectors.
Now before arguing about some other aspects, speakers and touch panels can work fine through water-proof membranes without adversely affecting quality.
Also on small portable devices you shouldn't need the connectors to act as vents either, the casing should be thin or thermally conductive enough to keep things from overheating.
If the device was designed right, it would be reasonable to expect it to be as water resistant as most wristwatches.
If I can get a $30 watch that's 30m watertight, then why not for a $300 gizmo?It looks pretty, but if they designed it to be more practical - internal moisture sensors wouldn't trip unless the device was exposed to some degree of water pressure.
That means getting it wet or putting it somewhere humid wouldn't bother it (unless terminals corrode - which is usually easy to fix by repeated plugging-unplugging), but it would be expected for the seals to fail if you went swimming with it.My guess is that the reason Apple doesn't make the devices to a higher spec of water-resistance is they don't expect that degree of QC to be upheld by the factories in China.
Otherwise such devices could be made to occasionally be dunked or get wet with no problems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207300</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207204</id>
	<title>Uhhhhh... Condensation?</title>
	<author>Tsu-na-mi</author>
	<datestamp>1266594300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As anyone who wears glasses could probably tell you, if you go outside for a while, then come back inside (mimic the conditions of the 'experiment'), the glasses are highly likely to fog up with condensation.  Is this not a liquid?</p><p>Sounds to me like the sensors are working just fine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As anyone who wears glasses could probably tell you , if you go outside for a while , then come back inside ( mimic the conditions of the 'experiment ' ) , the glasses are highly likely to fog up with condensation .
Is this not a liquid ? Sounds to me like the sensors are working just fine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As anyone who wears glasses could probably tell you, if you go outside for a while, then come back inside (mimic the conditions of the 'experiment'), the glasses are highly likely to fog up with condensation.
Is this not a liquid?Sounds to me like the sensors are working just fine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207722</id>
	<title>Acidental Damage Protection</title>
	<author>OneFix</author>
	<datestamp>1266599820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hate to say it, because it's also a scam, but this won't matter if you buy an ADP plan that includes spills/immersion (SquareTrade sells them for all kinds of phones).</p><p>It doesn't matter who you buy it from though, if they know all you have to do to force them to fix it is to pay a $50 deductible, they are less likely to claim mishandling.</p><p>It's not fair, but they know if you don't have that insurance, you have no choice but to buy a new phone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hate to say it , because it 's also a scam , but this wo n't matter if you buy an ADP plan that includes spills/immersion ( SquareTrade sells them for all kinds of phones ) .It does n't matter who you buy it from though , if they know all you have to do to force them to fix it is to pay a $ 50 deductible , they are less likely to claim mishandling.It 's not fair , but they know if you do n't have that insurance , you have no choice but to buy a new phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hate to say it, because it's also a scam, but this won't matter if you buy an ADP plan that includes spills/immersion (SquareTrade sells them for all kinds of phones).It doesn't matter who you buy it from though, if they know all you have to do to force them to fix it is to pay a $50 deductible, they are less likely to claim mishandling.It's not fair, but they know if you don't have that insurance, you have no choice but to buy a new phone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207400</id>
	<title>Re:Condensation?</title>
	<author>Entropius</author>
	<datestamp>1266596400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny how this doesn't seem to bother properly designed electronics.</p><p>I have a cheapie digital SLR that I take in and out all the time in wildly varying humidity and temperature conditions, and it does just fine. Sometimes condensation forms on the lens, and that means your pictures suck. But it doesn't break the device. If Olympus can figure out how to do this with a device that has a sensitive CMOS sensor exposed to air, why can't we get a cell phone that won't break when put in the same room as a bathtub?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny how this does n't seem to bother properly designed electronics.I have a cheapie digital SLR that I take in and out all the time in wildly varying humidity and temperature conditions , and it does just fine .
Sometimes condensation forms on the lens , and that means your pictures suck .
But it does n't break the device .
If Olympus can figure out how to do this with a device that has a sensitive CMOS sensor exposed to air , why ca n't we get a cell phone that wo n't break when put in the same room as a bathtub ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny how this doesn't seem to bother properly designed electronics.I have a cheapie digital SLR that I take in and out all the time in wildly varying humidity and temperature conditions, and it does just fine.
Sometimes condensation forms on the lens, and that means your pictures suck.
But it doesn't break the device.
If Olympus can figure out how to do this with a device that has a sensitive CMOS sensor exposed to air, why can't we get a cell phone that won't break when put in the same room as a bathtub?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_20_0118230.31207200</parent>
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