<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_14_0857256</id>
	<title>Australian Judge Rules Facts Cannot Be Copyrighted</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1266139920000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>nfarrell writes <i>"Last week, an Australian Judge ruled that <a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2010/44.html">copyright laws do not apply to collections of facts</a>, regardless of the amount of effort that was spent collecting them. In this case, the case surrounded the reproduction of entries from the White and Yellow Pages, but the ruling referred to a previous case involving IceTV, which republishes TV guides. Does this mean that other databases of facts, such as financial data, are also legally able to be copied and redistributed?"</i> Here are analyses <a href="http://www.dilanchian.com.au/index.php?option=com\_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=601:telstra-loses-as-copyright-blowback-continues&amp;catid=23:ip&amp;Itemid=114">from a former legal adviser to the directory publisher</a> which prevailed as the defendant in this case,  and <a href="http://www.smartcompany.com.au/intellectual-property/20100212-sensis-loses-case-to-protect-copyright-of-yellow-pages-and-white-pages.html">from Smart Company</a>.</htmltext>
<tokenext>nfarrell writes " Last week , an Australian Judge ruled that copyright laws do not apply to collections of facts , regardless of the amount of effort that was spent collecting them .
In this case , the case surrounded the reproduction of entries from the White and Yellow Pages , but the ruling referred to a previous case involving IceTV , which republishes TV guides .
Does this mean that other databases of facts , such as financial data , are also legally able to be copied and redistributed ?
" Here are analyses from a former legal adviser to the directory publisher which prevailed as the defendant in this case , and from Smart Company .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nfarrell writes "Last week, an Australian Judge ruled that copyright laws do not apply to collections of facts, regardless of the amount of effort that was spent collecting them.
In this case, the case surrounded the reproduction of entries from the White and Yellow Pages, but the ruling referred to a previous case involving IceTV, which republishes TV guides.
Does this mean that other databases of facts, such as financial data, are also legally able to be copied and redistributed?
" Here are analyses from a former legal adviser to the directory publisher which prevailed as the defendant in this case,  and from Smart Company.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31135250</id>
	<title>How about lies?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266171060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So I can't copyright "The sky is blue."  But can I copyright "The sky isn't blue."?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So I ca n't copyright " The sky is blue .
" But can I copyright " The sky is n't blue .
" ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So I can't copyright "The sky is blue.
"  But can I copyright "The sky isn't blue.
"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31141986</id>
	<title>Re:How about databases?</title>
	<author>AVee</author>
	<datestamp>1266227340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Likewise with ZIP codes in the EU: it may seem ridiculous but ZIP code databases are copyrighted there.
</p></div><p>They are still not copyrighted. That very instance of the database may be protected, you can't just rip it and use it for whatever you want. Not even of the database is publicly searchable.<br>
But you can go out and start collecting that very same information on your own and create your own database. Once you've done that you can use that in any way you see fit.<br>
What you can't do is wait till somebody else has done all the hard work and then just grab that for free, which seems fair enough to me.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Likewise with ZIP codes in the EU : it may seem ridiculous but ZIP code databases are copyrighted there .
They are still not copyrighted .
That very instance of the database may be protected , you ca n't just rip it and use it for whatever you want .
Not even of the database is publicly searchable .
But you can go out and start collecting that very same information on your own and create your own database .
Once you 've done that you can use that in any way you see fit .
What you ca n't do is wait till somebody else has done all the hard work and then just grab that for free , which seems fair enough to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Likewise with ZIP codes in the EU: it may seem ridiculous but ZIP code databases are copyrighted there.
They are still not copyrighted.
That very instance of the database may be protected, you can't just rip it and use it for whatever you want.
Not even of the database is publicly searchable.
But you can go out and start collecting that very same information on your own and create your own database.
Once you've done that you can use that in any way you see fit.
What you can't do is wait till somebody else has done all the hard work and then just grab that for free, which seems fair enough to me.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31135470</id>
	<title>Re:So we can copy maps</title>
	<author>butlerm</author>
	<datestamp>1266173100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No. Maps are not facts, maps are representations of facts.  Big difference.  You can copy the actual facts, assuming you can tell what the facts are, but you cannot copy the <em>representation</em> of those facts, if there was any creativity, selection, or discretionary arrangement involved in creating that representation.</p><p>It is like the difference between a photo and what the photo is taken of.  Photos are generally protectable by copyright, due to the creativity involved in choosing a time, place, angle, lighting, etc.  Maps are similar, except with different creative elements, most notably <em>selection</em>.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
Maps are not facts , maps are representations of facts .
Big difference .
You can copy the actual facts , assuming you can tell what the facts are , but you can not copy the representation of those facts , if there was any creativity , selection , or discretionary arrangement involved in creating that representation.It is like the difference between a photo and what the photo is taken of .
Photos are generally protectable by copyright , due to the creativity involved in choosing a time , place , angle , lighting , etc .
Maps are similar , except with different creative elements , most notably selection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
Maps are not facts, maps are representations of facts.
Big difference.
You can copy the actual facts, assuming you can tell what the facts are, but you cannot copy the representation of those facts, if there was any creativity, selection, or discretionary arrangement involved in creating that representation.It is like the difference between a photo and what the photo is taken of.
Photos are generally protectable by copyright, due to the creativity involved in choosing a time, place, angle, lighting, etc.
Maps are similar, except with different creative elements, most notably selection.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133944</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133848</id>
	<title>Re:How about databases?</title>
	<author>kill-1</author>
	<datestamp>1266153240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know about the US but in Germany and I think the rest of the EU, the "sweat of the brow" rule applies to databases.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about the US but in Germany and I think the rest of the EU , the " sweat of the brow " rule applies to databases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about the US but in Germany and I think the rest of the EU, the "sweat of the brow" rule applies to databases.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133372</id>
	<title>Settled law in the United States</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266143940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This has been settled law in the United States since the Supreme Court ruling in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist\_Publications\_v.\_Rural\_Telephone\_Service" title="wikipedia.org">Feist Publications, Inc., v. Rural Telephone Service Co.</a> [wikipedia.org] (1991).  You can read the whole opinion on <a href="http://scholar.google.com/scholar\_case?case=1195336269698056315" title="google.com">Google Scholar</a> [google.com].  I highly recommend reading it, it's a classic in American copyright law.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This has been settled law in the United States since the Supreme Court ruling in Feist Publications , Inc. , v. Rural Telephone Service Co. [ wikipedia.org ] ( 1991 ) .
You can read the whole opinion on Google Scholar [ google.com ] .
I highly recommend reading it , it 's a classic in American copyright law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has been settled law in the United States since the Supreme Court ruling in Feist Publications, Inc., v. Rural Telephone Service Co. [wikipedia.org] (1991).
You can read the whole opinion on Google Scholar [google.com].
I highly recommend reading it, it's a classic in American copyright law.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31136054</id>
	<title>So what this means</title>
	<author>cjsm</author>
	<datestamp>1266178440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So what this means is under Australian and American law, if some newspaper published that I was extremely bright, remarkably witty, and incredibly good looking, this would  not be copywritable.  However if the newspaper said the same thing about Brad Pitt, it would be.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So what this means is under Australian and American law , if some newspaper published that I was extremely bright , remarkably witty , and incredibly good looking , this would not be copywritable .
However if the newspaper said the same thing about Brad Pitt , it would be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what this means is under Australian and American law, if some newspaper published that I was extremely bright, remarkably witty, and incredibly good looking, this would  not be copywritable.
However if the newspaper said the same thing about Brad Pitt, it would be.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31134850</id>
	<title>Database right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266167220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Europe we have database right for this: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database\_right" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database\_right</a> [wikipedia.org].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Europe we have database right for this : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database \ _right [ wikipedia.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Europe we have database right for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database\_right [wikipedia.org].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31139064</id>
	<title>Re:The movie 2012</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266155640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IANAL, but I think you can do that on 2012-12-22 (ISO Date, of course), provided that the world did end the previous day.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IANAL , but I think you can do that on 2012-12-22 ( ISO Date , of course ) , provided that the world did end the previous day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IANAL, but I think you can do that on 2012-12-22 (ISO Date, of course), provided that the world did end the previous day.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133770</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31135678</id>
	<title>Re:How about databases?</title>
	<author>WCguru42</author>
	<datestamp>1266174780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>on the other hand if this means that anyone can slurp down your entire database and then resell it or even export it then it's less of a boon.</p></div><p>If the methods used to access that data was not legal then they are breaking the law by redistributing it.  If I have some fancy sculpture in my home that people want to collect all the facts about they are still not allowed to do it until I give them access to my house.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>on the other hand if this means that anyone can slurp down your entire database and then resell it or even export it then it 's less of a boon.If the methods used to access that data was not legal then they are breaking the law by redistributing it .
If I have some fancy sculpture in my home that people want to collect all the facts about they are still not allowed to do it until I give them access to my house .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>on the other hand if this means that anyone can slurp down your entire database and then resell it or even export it then it's less of a boon.If the methods used to access that data was not legal then they are breaking the law by redistributing it.
If I have some fancy sculpture in my home that people want to collect all the facts about they are still not allowed to do it until I give them access to my house.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133944</id>
	<title>So we can copy maps</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266155280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So if we take that literally, we can copy maps, text from encyclopedias, and non-fiction books I guess.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So if we take that literally , we can copy maps , text from encyclopedias , and non-fiction books I guess .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So if we take that literally, we can copy maps, text from encyclopedias, and non-fiction books I guess.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31135284</id>
	<title>Can false "facts" get around this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266171360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I remember reading stories about cartographers adding deliberate errors to their maps to prevent copying, wouldn't that be a workaround? Just one fake name in the phone book, if that name was copied it'd be copyright infringement and there would be a legal remedy. This would prevent phone book printers from limiting people from distributing collections with legitimate phone numbers, but would also prevent people from just straight up copying the phone book.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember reading stories about cartographers adding deliberate errors to their maps to prevent copying , would n't that be a workaround ?
Just one fake name in the phone book , if that name was copied it 'd be copyright infringement and there would be a legal remedy .
This would prevent phone book printers from limiting people from distributing collections with legitimate phone numbers , but would also prevent people from just straight up copying the phone book .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember reading stories about cartographers adding deliberate errors to their maps to prevent copying, wouldn't that be a workaround?
Just one fake name in the phone book, if that name was copied it'd be copyright infringement and there would be a legal remedy.
This would prevent phone book printers from limiting people from distributing collections with legitimate phone numbers, but would also prevent people from just straight up copying the phone book.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31141092</id>
	<title>The Bible (c)</title>
	<author>eyendall</author>
	<datestamp>1266173400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Great news. Now I can go and copyright the Bible and other works of creative imagination.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Great news .
Now I can go and copyright the Bible and other works of creative imagination .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great news.
Now I can go and copyright the Bible and other works of creative imagination.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31135736</id>
	<title>Re:The movie 2012</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266175320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, it's crap. Don't download it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , it 's crap .
Do n't download it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, it's crap.
Don't download it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133770</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31134340</id>
	<title>Game records</title>
	<author>malevo</author>
	<datestamp>1266162000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about collections of game records? For example a go or chess database.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about collections of game records ?
For example a go or chess database .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about collections of game records?
For example a go or chess database.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133696</id>
	<title>This is nice for Australia</title>
	<author>Sique</author>
	<datestamp>1266149940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Germany and other EU countries there is special wording in the Author's Right (Urheberrecht) to protect databases even if the single entry in the database is not protected. So while in Germany facts are not protected by the Author's Right, databases of facts are.</p><p>Interestingly though since the addition of databases to the Author's Right in the 90ies the market share of EU based companies for databases has dwindled. This is probably pure coincidence.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Germany and other EU countries there is special wording in the Author 's Right ( Urheberrecht ) to protect databases even if the single entry in the database is not protected .
So while in Germany facts are not protected by the Author 's Right , databases of facts are.Interestingly though since the addition of databases to the Author 's Right in the 90ies the market share of EU based companies for databases has dwindled .
This is probably pure coincidence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Germany and other EU countries there is special wording in the Author's Right (Urheberrecht) to protect databases even if the single entry in the database is not protected.
So while in Germany facts are not protected by the Author's Right, databases of facts are.Interestingly though since the addition of databases to the Author's Right in the 90ies the market share of EU based companies for databases has dwindled.
This is probably pure coincidence.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31136148</id>
	<title>Re:Financial data and what not are protected under</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266179400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Financial data in terms of individual accounts, yes.</p><p>OTOH, I'm expected to pay ~$500 for a history of stock prices, which is facts and not private (as these are publicly held companies traded on an open exchange).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Financial data in terms of individual accounts , yes.OTOH , I 'm expected to pay ~ $ 500 for a history of stock prices , which is facts and not private ( as these are publicly held companies traded on an open exchange ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Financial data in terms of individual accounts, yes.OTOH, I'm expected to pay ~$500 for a history of stock prices, which is facts and not private (as these are publicly held companies traded on an open exchange).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133794</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31144272</id>
	<title>Re:How about databases?</title>
	<author>cfulmer</author>
	<datestamp>1266250920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It varies country-to-country.  The US doesn't recognize the "sweat-of-the-brow" doctrine, although there are moves in Congress to change that.

US Copyright is based on "creative expression" -- if a work doesn't have any of that, then the work isn't subject to copyright.  Most databases don't have that, so they're not subject to copyright.  However, a database may have that creative expression in the selection and arrangement of the facts in the database.

Also, note that if you store creative works in the database (a la Lexis, for example), then copying the entire database would also copy those works, and would be an infringement.

Further, note that even though many databases are sold under 'licensing agreements,' the enforceability of those agreements is unclear since the states cannot themselves protect things outside of federal copyright law.  And, contract law is state law.  It's a big hole for database owners, which is why many of them sell access to the database, but do not sell copies of the database itself.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It varies country-to-country .
The US does n't recognize the " sweat-of-the-brow " doctrine , although there are moves in Congress to change that .
US Copyright is based on " creative expression " -- if a work does n't have any of that , then the work is n't subject to copyright .
Most databases do n't have that , so they 're not subject to copyright .
However , a database may have that creative expression in the selection and arrangement of the facts in the database .
Also , note that if you store creative works in the database ( a la Lexis , for example ) , then copying the entire database would also copy those works , and would be an infringement .
Further , note that even though many databases are sold under 'licensing agreements, ' the enforceability of those agreements is unclear since the states can not themselves protect things outside of federal copyright law .
And , contract law is state law .
It 's a big hole for database owners , which is why many of them sell access to the database , but do not sell copies of the database itself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It varies country-to-country.
The US doesn't recognize the "sweat-of-the-brow" doctrine, although there are moves in Congress to change that.
US Copyright is based on "creative expression" -- if a work doesn't have any of that, then the work isn't subject to copyright.
Most databases don't have that, so they're not subject to copyright.
However, a database may have that creative expression in the selection and arrangement of the facts in the database.
Also, note that if you store creative works in the database (a la Lexis, for example), then copying the entire database would also copy those works, and would be an infringement.
Further, note that even though many databases are sold under 'licensing agreements,' the enforceability of those agreements is unclear since the states cannot themselves protect things outside of federal copyright law.
And, contract law is state law.
It's a big hole for database owners, which is why many of them sell access to the database, but do not sell copies of the database itself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31137742</id>
	<title>False Facts</title>
	<author>mrsaggy</author>
	<datestamp>1266146640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Many databases contain spurious entries designed to detect duplication.
An extra Mr. Smith with a specific phone number helps the copyright owner detect people skimming the data. I've been told they do this with maps/GPS data.
Explaining where that extra entry came from may be a little difficult.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Many databases contain spurious entries designed to detect duplication .
An extra Mr. Smith with a specific phone number helps the copyright owner detect people skimming the data .
I 've been told they do this with maps/GPS data .
Explaining where that extra entry came from may be a little difficult .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many databases contain spurious entries designed to detect duplication.
An extra Mr. Smith with a specific phone number helps the copyright owner detect people skimming the data.
I've been told they do this with maps/GPS data.
Explaining where that extra entry came from may be a little difficult.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31134930</id>
	<title>Re:How about databases?</title>
	<author>pdabbadabba</author>
	<datestamp>1266167880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bear in mind that even if copyright law provides no protection to databases, a database owner can still choose to only allow you access to their database under a license that prohibits you from reselling the information (and I believe many large database owners do just this). So, what you can't enforce through copyright law you probably could enforce through contract law.</p><p>(I am a law student, not a lawyer)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bear in mind that even if copyright law provides no protection to databases , a database owner can still choose to only allow you access to their database under a license that prohibits you from reselling the information ( and I believe many large database owners do just this ) .
So , what you ca n't enforce through copyright law you probably could enforce through contract law .
( I am a law student , not a lawyer )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bear in mind that even if copyright law provides no protection to databases, a database owner can still choose to only allow you access to their database under a license that prohibits you from reselling the information (and I believe many large database owners do just this).
So, what you can't enforce through copyright law you probably could enforce through contract law.
(I am a law student, not a lawyer)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31134402</id>
	<title>The Amiga Music Preservation project</title>
	<author>Ezel</author>
	<datestamp>1266162660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Amiga Music Preservation project doesn't seem to recognize this which is why I refuse to let them take part of my own module-compilation. They are spreading the hard work of a lot of amiga-musician and then in some weird fashion refuses to let others use the fact-collection. I quote from their FAQ at <a href="http://amp.dascene.net/faq.php" title="dascene.net" rel="nofollow">http://amp.dascene.net/faq.php</a> [dascene.net]<br><i>Can I export part or all of AMP's composer database and use it in my website?</i><br><b>No way! AMP's composer database is the result of many years spent on gathering and sorting information. In order to avoid legal prosecution we recommend you not to include any part or mirror our database in your website.</b></p><p>Now, that's some crappy attitude.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Amiga Music Preservation project does n't seem to recognize this which is why I refuse to let them take part of my own module-compilation .
They are spreading the hard work of a lot of amiga-musician and then in some weird fashion refuses to let others use the fact-collection .
I quote from their FAQ at http : //amp.dascene.net/faq.php [ dascene.net ] Can I export part or all of AMP 's composer database and use it in my website ? No way !
AMP 's composer database is the result of many years spent on gathering and sorting information .
In order to avoid legal prosecution we recommend you not to include any part or mirror our database in your website.Now , that 's some crappy attitude .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Amiga Music Preservation project doesn't seem to recognize this which is why I refuse to let them take part of my own module-compilation.
They are spreading the hard work of a lot of amiga-musician and then in some weird fashion refuses to let others use the fact-collection.
I quote from their FAQ at http://amp.dascene.net/faq.php [dascene.net]Can I export part or all of AMP's composer database and use it in my website?No way!
AMP's composer database is the result of many years spent on gathering and sorting information.
In order to avoid legal prosecution we recommend you not to include any part or mirror our database in your website.Now, that's some crappy attitude.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31134182</id>
	<title>How does this relate to gps?</title>
	<author>niftyguy</author>
	<datestamp>1266160140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How does this relate to gps databases?<br>
Is it now legal to take the Tomtom (or Sensis) gps db for Oz, extract it and upload it to openstreetmap.org?<br>
<br>
IANAL but gps data seems to me to fall under the category of not requiring a "creative spark" to compile.<br>
<br>
Is gpsdrive about to become a useful application in Australia?</htmltext>
<tokenext>How does this relate to gps databases ?
Is it now legal to take the Tomtom ( or Sensis ) gps db for Oz , extract it and upload it to openstreetmap.org ?
IANAL but gps data seems to me to fall under the category of not requiring a " creative spark " to compile .
Is gpsdrive about to become a useful application in Australia ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How does this relate to gps databases?
Is it now legal to take the Tomtom (or Sensis) gps db for Oz, extract it and upload it to openstreetmap.org?
IANAL but gps data seems to me to fall under the category of not requiring a "creative spark" to compile.
Is gpsdrive about to become a useful application in Australia?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133598</id>
	<title>How about databases?</title>
	<author>golodh</author>
	<datestamp>1266148080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>As the parent poster notes, this ruling from down-under agrees with US legal theory on this issue. But what about databases?
<p>
For example<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Lexis-Nexus? And big chemical databases (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical\_database" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical\_database</a> [wikipedia.org]) like the Beilstein database (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beilstein\_database" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beilstein\_database</a> [wikipedia.org])?
</p><p>
On the one hand I'm very glad that mere facts aren't patentable, but on the other hand if this means that anyone can slurp down your entire database and then resell it or even export it then it's less of a boon. This is why e.g. the EU came up with their "database directive" which expressly provides databases with copyright protection if they are "collections of facts that took significant effort to compile".
</p><p>
Not that that's ideal, because it e.g. lets public transport providers claim copyright on timetables (which they promptly abused in the EU until court-cases established that public transport providers had to draw uptime-tables anyway in order to make their networks run, and that it required negligible effort to put that stuff into a database afterwards). Likewise with ZIP codes in the EU: it may seem ridiculous but ZIP code databases are copyrighted there.
</p><p>
So what is the legal status of databases here? Does anyone know?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As the parent poster notes , this ruling from down-under agrees with US legal theory on this issue .
But what about databases ?
For example ... Lexis-Nexus ? And big chemical databases ( see http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical \ _database [ wikipedia.org ] ) like the Beilstein database ( see http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beilstein \ _database [ wikipedia.org ] ) ?
On the one hand I 'm very glad that mere facts are n't patentable , but on the other hand if this means that anyone can slurp down your entire database and then resell it or even export it then it 's less of a boon .
This is why e.g .
the EU came up with their " database directive " which expressly provides databases with copyright protection if they are " collections of facts that took significant effort to compile " .
Not that that 's ideal , because it e.g .
lets public transport providers claim copyright on timetables ( which they promptly abused in the EU until court-cases established that public transport providers had to draw uptime-tables anyway in order to make their networks run , and that it required negligible effort to put that stuff into a database afterwards ) .
Likewise with ZIP codes in the EU : it may seem ridiculous but ZIP code databases are copyrighted there .
So what is the legal status of databases here ?
Does anyone know ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As the parent poster notes, this ruling from down-under agrees with US legal theory on this issue.
But what about databases?
For example ... Lexis-Nexus? And big chemical databases (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical\_database [wikipedia.org]) like the Beilstein database (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beilstein\_database [wikipedia.org])?
On the one hand I'm very glad that mere facts aren't patentable, but on the other hand if this means that anyone can slurp down your entire database and then resell it or even export it then it's less of a boon.
This is why e.g.
the EU came up with their "database directive" which expressly provides databases with copyright protection if they are "collections of facts that took significant effort to compile".
Not that that's ideal, because it e.g.
lets public transport providers claim copyright on timetables (which they promptly abused in the EU until court-cases established that public transport providers had to draw uptime-tables anyway in order to make their networks run, and that it required negligible effort to put that stuff into a database afterwards).
Likewise with ZIP codes in the EU: it may seem ridiculous but ZIP code databases are copyrighted there.
So what is the legal status of databases here?
Does anyone know?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31134572</id>
	<title>Underlying database of retail phone-directory apps</title>
	<author>YaHooL</author>
	<datestamp>1266164700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Long time ago, I used to work in a team that developed internal applications for a company that makes speech-recognition engines.<br>One time I was told that the company needs a Database containing histogram tables of European First and Last names, for each Country/Region in Europe.<br>This DB was needed for generating random data-sets with X - name couples (based on the relevant region histogram, pick X First and X Last names and then just concatenate them together).</p><p>For this purpose, I was given a retail DVD of a phone-book application.<br>Whatever DB format the application was using seemed to be encrypted or propitiatory (that's a logical or).<br>While the application query system was rather good (for this purpose), it did limit the amount of result fields you could mark for export (or copy), to something like 10 fields at a time.<br>So, I wrote a little tool (wasn't complicated) that automatically made queries and read each of the resulting pages.<br>For each result row, the first and last names were appended into separate text files of which file-names were linked to the query that produced them.<br>A perl script later, the Databse was ready.</p><p>Given such an application that allows you to export any field from it (even if it is indented that users would only do "manual" copies of small chunks).<br>Could a person who rips the full phone-directory, use it for commercial purposes?<br>For example, sell a module that enables users of eCommerce sites to have their Shipment details and Phone number fields be auto-completed (after filling the First Name,Last Name,Country,City fields).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Long time ago , I used to work in a team that developed internal applications for a company that makes speech-recognition engines.One time I was told that the company needs a Database containing histogram tables of European First and Last names , for each Country/Region in Europe.This DB was needed for generating random data-sets with X - name couples ( based on the relevant region histogram , pick X First and X Last names and then just concatenate them together ) .For this purpose , I was given a retail DVD of a phone-book application.Whatever DB format the application was using seemed to be encrypted or propitiatory ( that 's a logical or ) .While the application query system was rather good ( for this purpose ) , it did limit the amount of result fields you could mark for export ( or copy ) , to something like 10 fields at a time.So , I wrote a little tool ( was n't complicated ) that automatically made queries and read each of the resulting pages.For each result row , the first and last names were appended into separate text files of which file-names were linked to the query that produced them.A perl script later , the Databse was ready.Given such an application that allows you to export any field from it ( even if it is indented that users would only do " manual " copies of small chunks ) .Could a person who rips the full phone-directory , use it for commercial purposes ? For example , sell a module that enables users of eCommerce sites to have their Shipment details and Phone number fields be auto-completed ( after filling the First Name,Last Name,Country,City fields ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Long time ago, I used to work in a team that developed internal applications for a company that makes speech-recognition engines.One time I was told that the company needs a Database containing histogram tables of European First and Last names, for each Country/Region in Europe.This DB was needed for generating random data-sets with X - name couples (based on the relevant region histogram, pick X First and X Last names and then just concatenate them together).For this purpose, I was given a retail DVD of a phone-book application.Whatever DB format the application was using seemed to be encrypted or propitiatory (that's a logical or).While the application query system was rather good (for this purpose), it did limit the amount of result fields you could mark for export (or copy), to something like 10 fields at a time.So, I wrote a little tool (wasn't complicated) that automatically made queries and read each of the resulting pages.For each result row, the first and last names were appended into separate text files of which file-names were linked to the query that produced them.A perl script later, the Databse was ready.Given such an application that allows you to export any field from it (even if it is indented that users would only do "manual" copies of small chunks).Could a person who rips the full phone-directory, use it for commercial purposes?For example, sell a module that enables users of eCommerce sites to have their Shipment details and Phone number fields be auto-completed (after filling the First Name,Last Name,Country,City fields).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133794</id>
	<title>Financial data and what not are protected under</title>
	<author>VShael</author>
	<datestamp>1266152400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>a different set of laws. Your bank doesn't keep your account details private because of copyright law.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>a different set of laws .
Your bank does n't keep your account details private because of copyright law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a different set of laws.
Your bank doesn't keep your account details private because of copyright law.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31136010</id>
	<title>Re:How about databases?</title>
	<author>Kirijini</author>
	<datestamp>1266178080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The case on point is <a href="http://scholar.google.com/scholar\_case?case=11811009805458694240" title="google.com">ProCD v. Zeidenberg</a> [google.com] (1996), which is of additional note because it accepts shrink-wrap/click-wrap licenses as valid and enforceable.</p><p>The database owner may also prevent additional copying of the database (ie, if the database is "leaked" somehow) through trade secret laws, or through encryption and the DMCA's prohibition on bypassing such protections.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The case on point is ProCD v. Zeidenberg [ google.com ] ( 1996 ) , which is of additional note because it accepts shrink-wrap/click-wrap licenses as valid and enforceable.The database owner may also prevent additional copying of the database ( ie , if the database is " leaked " somehow ) through trade secret laws , or through encryption and the DMCA 's prohibition on bypassing such protections .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The case on point is ProCD v. Zeidenberg [google.com] (1996), which is of additional note because it accepts shrink-wrap/click-wrap licenses as valid and enforceable.The database owner may also prevent additional copying of the database (ie, if the database is "leaked" somehow) through trade secret laws, or through encryption and the DMCA's prohibition on bypassing such protections.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31134930</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31133770</id>
	<title>The movie 2012</title>
	<author>Sneeze1066</author>
	<datestamp>1266151560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>...was that fact?  Just want to clarify before I download it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...was that fact ?
Just want to clarify before I download it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...was that fact?
Just want to clarify before I download it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31136900</id>
	<title>See  a lawyer before relying on this</title>
	<author>TekPolitik</author>
	<datestamp>1266141120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>IAAL in Australia. The real rule is much more nuanced than TFS suggests. If you are planning to rip off somebody else's database, consult a lawyer first.</htmltext>
<tokenext>IAAL in Australia .
The real rule is much more nuanced than TFS suggests .
If you are planning to rip off somebody else 's database , consult a lawyer first .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IAAL in Australia.
The real rule is much more nuanced than TFS suggests.
If you are planning to rip off somebody else's database, consult a lawyer first.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31134016</id>
	<title>just common sense</title>
	<author>l3v1</author>
	<datestamp>1266156840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'd say this ruling is just following common sense. If you gather data that is already available, and put them in a database, that in itself should not be copyrightable. If you make some data representation from those, like charts, tables, or draw some conclusions that are not obvious, those should be copyrightable, since those are results of your own work. Nobody should be allowed to retain any rigths over anything that is just another pile of the same heap.<br> <br>
There was also a comment about hey, now we can copy maps, which I is totally flawed. Going along the line of my ideas above, a map is a representation of some data that is freely available, but since it's not a database, but a graphical interpretation and representation of that database, I don't have anything against retaining rights over that representation. The important thing is to keep in mind, that \_anyone\_ can make a map of hir/her own and sell it and retain rights over it. But one shouldn't be allowed to retain any rigths over the geographical data.<br> <br>
As I began with, I can only say, it's just common sense.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd say this ruling is just following common sense .
If you gather data that is already available , and put them in a database , that in itself should not be copyrightable .
If you make some data representation from those , like charts , tables , or draw some conclusions that are not obvious , those should be copyrightable , since those are results of your own work .
Nobody should be allowed to retain any rigths over anything that is just another pile of the same heap .
There was also a comment about hey , now we can copy maps , which I is totally flawed .
Going along the line of my ideas above , a map is a representation of some data that is freely available , but since it 's not a database , but a graphical interpretation and representation of that database , I do n't have anything against retaining rights over that representation .
The important thing is to keep in mind , that \ _anyone \ _ can make a map of hir/her own and sell it and retain rights over it .
But one should n't be allowed to retain any rigths over the geographical data .
As I began with , I can only say , it 's just common sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd say this ruling is just following common sense.
If you gather data that is already available, and put them in a database, that in itself should not be copyrightable.
If you make some data representation from those, like charts, tables, or draw some conclusions that are not obvious, those should be copyrightable, since those are results of your own work.
Nobody should be allowed to retain any rigths over anything that is just another pile of the same heap.
There was also a comment about hey, now we can copy maps, which I is totally flawed.
Going along the line of my ideas above, a map is a representation of some data that is freely available, but since it's not a database, but a graphical interpretation and representation of that database, I don't have anything against retaining rights over that representation.
The important thing is to keep in mind, that \_anyone\_ can make a map of hir/her own and sell it and retain rights over it.
But one shouldn't be allowed to retain any rigths over the geographical data.
As I began with, I can only say, it's just common sense.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31137902</id>
	<title>Excpet 3 things to happen here</title>
	<author>jonwil</author>
	<datestamp>1266147900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1.Telstra will appeal to the next court up (full bench of the federal court IIRC)<br>2.Telstra will continue to send C&amp;D letters to anyone who is using the information from the phone book (including and especially anyone who implements a way to search said information by phone number)<br>and 3.Telstra will lobby the government to pass new laws granting protection to phone books (with pressure comming from the TV networks to extend such information to program listings to overrule the IceTV case)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1.Telstra will appeal to the next court up ( full bench of the federal court IIRC ) 2.Telstra will continue to send C&amp;D letters to anyone who is using the information from the phone book ( including and especially anyone who implements a way to search said information by phone number ) and 3.Telstra will lobby the government to pass new laws granting protection to phone books ( with pressure comming from the TV networks to extend such information to program listings to overrule the IceTV case )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.Telstra will appeal to the next court up (full bench of the federal court IIRC)2.Telstra will continue to send C&amp;D letters to anyone who is using the information from the phone book (including and especially anyone who implements a way to search said information by phone number)and 3.Telstra will lobby the government to pass new laws granting protection to phone books (with pressure comming from the TV networks to extend such information to program listings to overrule the IceTV case)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31134082</id>
	<title>How odd</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1266158160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The materials on the rulings page linked in the story <a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2010/44.html" title="austlii.edu.au" rel="nofollow">http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2010/44.html</a> [austlii.edu.au] are all copyrighted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The materials on the rulings page linked in the story http : //www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2010/44.html [ austlii.edu.au ] are all copyrighted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The materials on the rulings page linked in the story http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2010/44.html [austlii.edu.au] are all copyrighted.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_14_0857256.31134358</id>
	<title>Work and Investment should not be copyrightable</title>
	<author>erroneus</author>
	<datestamp>1266162240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In other discussions about databases being copyrightable in EU, I think it is foolish to allow databases to be copyrighted simply because of the amount of work and/or investment involved in the collection of data.  There is a slippery slope to observe in the case of this sort of reasoning.</p><p>I have created a set of card faces for Gnome solitaire that features the characters of Southpark.  I literally spent hours and hours vectorizing these characters where no such vector forms of characters could be found on the net at large.  The project took perhaps 3 weeks to a month of after-work time.  I committed considerable hours and effort tracing characters from bitmapped graphics.  (Yes, I know exactly where this falls in terms of copyright violation.)</p><p>My point is that I do not consider my investment (of time) and work to be copyrightable.  I do not consider my effort to be particularly creative.</p><p>I don't think the format of data or even the precision of data should be copyrightable.  Digital street maps, for example, often sold at very extreme rates for GPS drive devices, should not be copyrightable.  After all, they are not creative works and the work could be (and often is) duplicated by others and is essentially compilations of facts describing the streets.</p><p>Frankly, the whole idea of intellectual property has gotten out of hand.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In other discussions about databases being copyrightable in EU , I think it is foolish to allow databases to be copyrighted simply because of the amount of work and/or investment involved in the collection of data .
There is a slippery slope to observe in the case of this sort of reasoning.I have created a set of card faces for Gnome solitaire that features the characters of Southpark .
I literally spent hours and hours vectorizing these characters where no such vector forms of characters could be found on the net at large .
The project took perhaps 3 weeks to a month of after-work time .
I committed considerable hours and effort tracing characters from bitmapped graphics .
( Yes , I know exactly where this falls in terms of copyright violation .
) My point is that I do not consider my investment ( of time ) and work to be copyrightable .
I do not consider my effort to be particularly creative.I do n't think the format of data or even the precision of data should be copyrightable .
Digital street maps , for example , often sold at very extreme rates for GPS drive devices , should not be copyrightable .
After all , they are not creative works and the work could be ( and often is ) duplicated by others and is essentially compilations of facts describing the streets.Frankly , the whole idea of intellectual property has gotten out of hand .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In other discussions about databases being copyrightable in EU, I think it is foolish to allow databases to be copyrighted simply because of the amount of work and/or investment involved in the collection of data.
There is a slippery slope to observe in the case of this sort of reasoning.I have created a set of card faces for Gnome solitaire that features the characters of Southpark.
I literally spent hours and hours vectorizing these characters where no such vector forms of characters could be found on the net at large.
The project took perhaps 3 weeks to a month of after-work time.
I committed considerable hours and effort tracing characters from bitmapped graphics.
(Yes, I know exactly where this falls in terms of copyright violation.
)My point is that I do not consider my investment (of time) and work to be copyrightable.
I do not consider my effort to be particularly creative.I don't think the format of data or even the precision of data should be copyrightable.
Digital street maps, for example, often sold at very extreme rates for GPS drive devices, should not be copyrightable.
After all, they are not creative works and the work could be (and often is) duplicated by others and is essentially compilations of facts describing the streets.Frankly, the whole idea of intellectual property has gotten out of hand.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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