<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_07_210226</id>
	<title>Chinese Man Gets 30 Months For Fake Cisco Sales</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1265547720000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>alphadogg writes <i>"A Chinese man was sentenced to two-and-a-half years in a US prison this week for <a href="http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/020610-chinese-man-gets-30-months.html?hpg1=bn">trafficking in counterfeit Cisco Systems gear</a>. Yongcai Li, 33, will also have to pay the networking company nearly $800,000 in restitution after being the conduit for hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of counterfeit computer hardware, the FBI said Friday. Prosecutors said he procured the fake gear in China and then sent it to co-conspirators in the US. His alleged co-conspirators have not been charged. Li was arrested by FBI agents on Jan. 9, 2009, in Las Vegas &mdash; while the annual Consumer Electronics Show was taking place there. Two years ago, the FBI claimed to have seized more than <a href="//slashdot.org/story/08/02/29/1642221/Feds-Seize-78M-of-Bogus-Chinese-Cisco-Gear">$78 million worth of counterfeit equipment</a> in more than 400 seizures."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>alphadogg writes " A Chinese man was sentenced to two-and-a-half years in a US prison this week for trafficking in counterfeit Cisco Systems gear .
Yongcai Li , 33 , will also have to pay the networking company nearly $ 800,000 in restitution after being the conduit for hundreds of thousands of dollars ' worth of counterfeit computer hardware , the FBI said Friday .
Prosecutors said he procured the fake gear in China and then sent it to co-conspirators in the US .
His alleged co-conspirators have not been charged .
Li was arrested by FBI agents on Jan. 9 , 2009 , in Las Vegas    while the annual Consumer Electronics Show was taking place there .
Two years ago , the FBI claimed to have seized more than $ 78 million worth of counterfeit equipment in more than 400 seizures .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>alphadogg writes "A Chinese man was sentenced to two-and-a-half years in a US prison this week for trafficking in counterfeit Cisco Systems gear.
Yongcai Li, 33, will also have to pay the networking company nearly $800,000 in restitution after being the conduit for hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of counterfeit computer hardware, the FBI said Friday.
Prosecutors said he procured the fake gear in China and then sent it to co-conspirators in the US.
His alleged co-conspirators have not been charged.
Li was arrested by FBI agents on Jan. 9, 2009, in Las Vegas — while the annual Consumer Electronics Show was taking place there.
Two years ago, the FBI claimed to have seized more than $78 million worth of counterfeit equipment in more than 400 seizures.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31060858</id>
	<title>Re:Bastards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265647020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, from someone living inside the US, it is horribly corrupt and that is the intention. It's all about convictions and whatever will either make government look good in the news stories or bring money to their coffers. Doesn't matter to the judges, courts or prosecutors whether they let guilty people go free or convict innocents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , from someone living inside the US , it is horribly corrupt and that is the intention .
It 's all about convictions and whatever will either make government look good in the news stories or bring money to their coffers .
Does n't matter to the judges , courts or prosecutors whether they let guilty people go free or convict innocents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, from someone living inside the US, it is horribly corrupt and that is the intention.
It's all about convictions and whatever will either make government look good in the news stories or bring money to their coffers.
Doesn't matter to the judges, courts or prosecutors whether they let guilty people go free or convict innocents.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057118</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265556480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I have some "fake" Cisco WIC cards for the 2600 series here in a couple of routers.  I'll tell you that they work just as well as regular Cisco WIC cards, and the systems you install them into can't tell the difference.  These have been running reliably for years now.</p><p>Cisco is begging for a counterfeit market for their parts, because they mark up prices to insane levels.</p><p>True, it's the research, development, documentation, and support that makes their products great, but charging what they charge is just stupid.</p><p>Here's an example;</p><p>Intel 2-port 10Gig network card, $2500.00</p><p> <a href="http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=1352161" title="cdw.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=1352161</a> [cdw.com] </p><p>Same EXACT card but branded as Cisco costs over $14000.00</p><p> <a href="http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=1424619" title="cdw.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=1424619</a> [cdw.com] </p><p>Yes, these are the same cards, my company has several of the large ASA firewalls that these go into, and the Intel cards.  Sit them side by side and they are identical.  At most, different firmware, but I doubt it.  I've never actually tried since we can't be dorking around with production equipment.</p><p>Newer Cisco routers and switches are now using licensing for features and ports, so installing non-Cisco-extortion-priced parts won't really be an issue anyway.  Reference the 3750-E/3560-E switches and those new 1900/2900/3900 series routers.</p></div><p>I've processed enough Cisco Sales orders and man their equipment is definitely high priced. The difference between a 500 gig hd for a CIVS is mad expensive even though it's a sata drive.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have some " fake " Cisco WIC cards for the 2600 series here in a couple of routers .
I 'll tell you that they work just as well as regular Cisco WIC cards , and the systems you install them into ca n't tell the difference .
These have been running reliably for years now.Cisco is begging for a counterfeit market for their parts , because they mark up prices to insane levels.True , it 's the research , development , documentation , and support that makes their products great , but charging what they charge is just stupid.Here 's an example ; Intel 2-port 10Gig network card , $ 2500.00 http : //www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx ? EDC = 1352161 [ cdw.com ] Same EXACT card but branded as Cisco costs over $ 14000.00 http : //www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx ? edc = 1424619 [ cdw.com ] Yes , these are the same cards , my company has several of the large ASA firewalls that these go into , and the Intel cards .
Sit them side by side and they are identical .
At most , different firmware , but I doubt it .
I 've never actually tried since we ca n't be dorking around with production equipment.Newer Cisco routers and switches are now using licensing for features and ports , so installing non-Cisco-extortion-priced parts wo n't really be an issue anyway .
Reference the 3750-E/3560-E switches and those new 1900/2900/3900 series routers.I 've processed enough Cisco Sales orders and man their equipment is definitely high priced .
The difference between a 500 gig hd for a CIVS is mad expensive even though it 's a sata drive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have some "fake" Cisco WIC cards for the 2600 series here in a couple of routers.
I'll tell you that they work just as well as regular Cisco WIC cards, and the systems you install them into can't tell the difference.
These have been running reliably for years now.Cisco is begging for a counterfeit market for their parts, because they mark up prices to insane levels.True, it's the research, development, documentation, and support that makes their products great, but charging what they charge is just stupid.Here's an example;Intel 2-port 10Gig network card, $2500.00 http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=1352161 [cdw.com] Same EXACT card but branded as Cisco costs over $14000.00 http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=1424619 [cdw.com] Yes, these are the same cards, my company has several of the large ASA firewalls that these go into, and the Intel cards.
Sit them side by side and they are identical.
At most, different firmware, but I doubt it.
I've never actually tried since we can't be dorking around with production equipment.Newer Cisco routers and switches are now using licensing for features and ports, so installing non-Cisco-extortion-priced parts won't really be an issue anyway.
Reference the 3750-E/3560-E switches and those new 1900/2900/3900 series routers.I've processed enough Cisco Sales orders and man their equipment is definitely high priced.
The difference between a 500 gig hd for a CIVS is mad expensive even though it's a sata drive.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058788</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>petermgreen</author>
	<datestamp>1265661960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>We use the RoHS to keep the hippies quiet(er).</i><br>Afaict manufacturers use the lead-free solder everywhere because it's the only way to make products legally sellable in europe and it's cheaper for them to take the higher cost and failure rate of lead free solder everywhere than to set up two totally different production and stock handling processes for different markets.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We use the RoHS to keep the hippies quiet ( er ) .Afaict manufacturers use the lead-free solder everywhere because it 's the only way to make products legally sellable in europe and it 's cheaper for them to take the higher cost and failure rate of lead free solder everywhere than to set up two totally different production and stock handling processes for different markets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We use the RoHS to keep the hippies quiet(er).Afaict manufacturers use the lead-free solder everywhere because it's the only way to make products legally sellable in europe and it's cheaper for them to take the higher cost and failure rate of lead free solder everywhere than to set up two totally different production and stock handling processes for different markets.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057026</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056632</id>
	<title>Bastards</title>
	<author>socceroos</author>
	<datestamp>1265551740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>His alleged co-conspirators have not been charged.</p></div></blockquote><p>
And why not? These guys should be getting just as much time as the other dude.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>His alleged co-conspirators have not been charged .
And why not ?
These guys should be getting just as much time as the other dude .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>His alleged co-conspirators have not been charged.
And why not?
These guys should be getting just as much time as the other dude.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056678</id>
	<title>Good thing...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265552220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good thing he didn't download a music album instead. He might of ended up with 3 times that fee.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good thing he did n't download a music album instead .
He might of ended up with 3 times that fee .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good thing he didn't download a music album instead.
He might of ended up with 3 times that fee.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31059120</id>
	<title>Re:win win for Cisco</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265625660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thank you, at least someone wrote up this point. That's the main question I have about this story. Why are my tax dollars going to enforce profitability for Cisco? If the people who got cheap networking equipment feel that they were wronged, let them bring a civil suit or let Cisco file suit on their behalf and on their own dime. You'll notice that criminal sentencing does not provide any restitution to those that were scammed. If the FBI has the time to act as corporate security guards, they need to be downsized accordingly and stop wasting our money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you , at least someone wrote up this point .
That 's the main question I have about this story .
Why are my tax dollars going to enforce profitability for Cisco ?
If the people who got cheap networking equipment feel that they were wronged , let them bring a civil suit or let Cisco file suit on their behalf and on their own dime .
You 'll notice that criminal sentencing does not provide any restitution to those that were scammed .
If the FBI has the time to act as corporate security guards , they need to be downsized accordingly and stop wasting our money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you, at least someone wrote up this point.
That's the main question I have about this story.
Why are my tax dollars going to enforce profitability for Cisco?
If the people who got cheap networking equipment feel that they were wronged, let them bring a civil suit or let Cisco file suit on their behalf and on their own dime.
You'll notice that criminal sentencing does not provide any restitution to those that were scammed.
If the FBI has the time to act as corporate security guards, they need to be downsized accordingly and stop wasting our money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057134</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056768</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>Ron Bennett</author>
	<datestamp>1265552820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And with good behavior, it could be low as ~25 months.</p><p>IMHO, a tad over 2 years prison sentence is a relatively *small* risk, compared to say illicit drug sales, for huge financial rewards<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... this may actually *encourage* some to get into selling counterfeit electronics.</p><p>Ron</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And with good behavior , it could be low as ~ 25 months.IMHO , a tad over 2 years prison sentence is a relatively * small * risk , compared to say illicit drug sales , for huge financial rewards ... this may actually * encourage * some to get into selling counterfeit electronics.Ron</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And with good behavior, it could be low as ~25 months.IMHO, a tad over 2 years prison sentence is a relatively *small* risk, compared to say illicit drug sales, for huge financial rewards ... this may actually *encourage* some to get into selling counterfeit electronics.Ron</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058306</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>kimvette</author>
	<datestamp>1265568240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.</p></div></blockquote><p>Oh, so you mean the counterfeits would actually be <i>better</i>? lead solder isn't "cheap" in the way you mean: it does not develop "tin whiskers" like tin-based solder does.  Lead solder is also a lot more resistant to fatigue and breakage due to vibration, shock, etc.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.Oh , so you mean the counterfeits would actually be better ?
lead solder is n't " cheap " in the way you mean : it does not develop " tin whiskers " like tin-based solder does .
Lead solder is also a lot more resistant to fatigue and breakage due to vibration , shock , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.Oh, so you mean the counterfeits would actually be better?
lead solder isn't "cheap" in the way you mean: it does not develop "tin whiskers" like tin-based solder does.
Lead solder is also a lot more resistant to fatigue and breakage due to vibration, shock, etc.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056868</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056988</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>cielom084</author>
	<datestamp>1265554980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>2.5 years is not 30 years, it&rsquo;s 30 months.</p></div><p>i agree to that, two and a half years is 12 months plus 12 months plus 6 months equals 30 months<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>2.5 years is not 30 years , it    s 30 months.i agree to that , two and a half years is 12 months plus 12 months plus 6 months equals 30 months .... : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>2.5 years is not 30 years, it’s 30 months.i agree to that, two and a half years is 12 months plus 12 months plus 6 months equals 30 months .... :)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057394</id>
	<title>ATTN: /. faggots</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265559060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The New Orleans Saints have won Super Bowl XLIV.</p><p>You may now return to your regularly scheduled open sores circle jerk.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The New Orleans Saints have won Super Bowl XLIV.You may now return to your regularly scheduled open sores circle jerk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The New Orleans Saints have won Super Bowl XLIV.You may now return to your regularly scheduled open sores circle jerk.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056710</id>
	<title>Re:Bastards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265552460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because its quite hard to prove it. For all we know he was selling them as legitimate Cisco products. If someone said that they bought wholesale Cisco consumer-grade routers and you owned a small electronics shop and could sell them for $10 profit, and the person looked legitimate most people would buy them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because its quite hard to prove it .
For all we know he was selling them as legitimate Cisco products .
If someone said that they bought wholesale Cisco consumer-grade routers and you owned a small electronics shop and could sell them for $ 10 profit , and the person looked legitimate most people would buy them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because its quite hard to prove it.
For all we know he was selling them as legitimate Cisco products.
If someone said that they bought wholesale Cisco consumer-grade routers and you owned a small electronics shop and could sell them for $10 profit, and the person looked legitimate most people would buy them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31071558</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>Life2Death</author>
	<datestamp>1265728320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I thought you said days" he wasnt gone for 30 months. FAIL<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I thought you said days " he wasnt gone for 30 months .
FAIL : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I thought you said days" he wasnt gone for 30 months.
FAIL :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056750</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056828</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265553360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps he's making copies of the cisco gear (same board design,e tc.) with some "special modifications" to allow "debugger access" to the network traffic?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps he 's making copies of the cisco gear ( same board design,e tc .
) with some " special modifications " to allow " debugger access " to the network traffic ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps he's making copies of the cisco gear (same board design,e tc.
) with some "special modifications" to allow "debugger access" to the network traffic?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056990</id>
	<title>FAEILZORs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265555040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>thing for the those uber-asshole Culture of absuse</htmltext>
<tokenext>thing for the those uber-asshole Culture of absuse</tokentext>
<sentencetext>thing for the those uber-asshole Culture of absuse</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057026</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265555400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.</p></div><p>Just FYI, lead-based solder is superior to RoHS. Even the "cheap" stuff. When people talk about "cheap, lead-based solder" they actually mean inexpensive.</p><p>If I could find someone using actual lead solder for my circuitry, I'd buy it in a heartbeat over the RoHS. As an example, had the solder on the original XBOX 360 been lead instead of RoHS, the solder wouldn't have broken under heat stress &amp; they'd have had fewer problems with the red rings showing up.</p><p>We use the RoHS to keep the hippies quiet(er).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.Just FYI , lead-based solder is superior to RoHS .
Even the " cheap " stuff .
When people talk about " cheap , lead-based solder " they actually mean inexpensive.If I could find someone using actual lead solder for my circuitry , I 'd buy it in a heartbeat over the RoHS .
As an example , had the solder on the original XBOX 360 been lead instead of RoHS , the solder would n't have broken under heat stress &amp; they 'd have had fewer problems with the red rings showing up.We use the RoHS to keep the hippies quiet ( er ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.Just FYI, lead-based solder is superior to RoHS.
Even the "cheap" stuff.
When people talk about "cheap, lead-based solder" they actually mean inexpensive.If I could find someone using actual lead solder for my circuitry, I'd buy it in a heartbeat over the RoHS.
As an example, had the solder on the original XBOX 360 been lead instead of RoHS, the solder wouldn't have broken under heat stress &amp; they'd have had fewer problems with the red rings showing up.We use the RoHS to keep the hippies quiet(er).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056868</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31061616</id>
	<title>counterfeit in China</title>
	<author>jackie cheung</author>
	<datestamp>1265650860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>counterfeit is quite popular in China now and that could detory Chinese creativity without question.</htmltext>
<tokenext>counterfeit is quite popular in China now and that could detory Chinese creativity without question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>counterfeit is quite popular in China now and that could detory Chinese creativity without question.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31059174</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1265626800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah and having the brand on it won't have any of those inferior stuff or any of those situations happen. Right? only fake batteries explode and only fake cars need to be recalled (and I am not taking about Toyota)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah and having the brand on it wo n't have any of those inferior stuff or any of those situations happen .
Right ? only fake batteries explode and only fake cars need to be recalled ( and I am not taking about Toyota )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah and having the brand on it won't have any of those inferior stuff or any of those situations happen.
Right? only fake batteries explode and only fake cars need to be recalled (and I am not taking about Toyota)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056868</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31060332</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265643120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think we should all invest in a new company called "Prestige Worldwide".</p><p>You keep you liver spotted hands off my mother she is a saint!! Then your going to write Dale and Brennan a check for $10,000 or I'm going to take one of those fake hearing devices so far up your ass, you'll be able to hear your small intestines producing SH!T!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think we should all invest in a new company called " Prestige Worldwide " .You keep you liver spotted hands off my mother she is a saint ! !
Then your going to write Dale and Brennan a check for $ 10,000 or I 'm going to take one of those fake hearing devices so far up your ass , you 'll be able to hear your small intestines producing SH ! T ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think we should all invest in a new company called "Prestige Worldwide".You keep you liver spotted hands off my mother she is a saint!!
Then your going to write Dale and Brennan a check for $10,000 or I'm going to take one of those fake hearing devices so far up your ass, you'll be able to hear your small intestines producing SH!T!!!!!!!!!!!!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056750</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057492</id>
	<title>Good thing we only buy Cisko</title>
	<author>quenda</author>
	<datestamp>1265560080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>.. I've not heard of anybody counterfeiting them yet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.. I 've not heard of anybody counterfeiting them yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.. I've not heard of anybody counterfeiting them yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056768</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056898</id>
	<title>Crisco??</title>
	<author>pinkj</author>
	<datestamp>1265554020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"You're telling me that Crisco makes delicious pie crusts AND hi-end networking equipment?  Sold!"</htmltext>
<tokenext>" You 're telling me that Crisco makes delicious pie crusts AND hi-end networking equipment ?
Sold ! "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You're telling me that Crisco makes delicious pie crusts AND hi-end networking equipment?
Sold!"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058538</id>
	<title>Re:Bastards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265571360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's the way to use/abuse stuff like the Prisoner's Dilemma.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the way to use/abuse stuff like the Prisoner 's Dilemma .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the way to use/abuse stuff like the Prisoner's Dilemma.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31059272</id>
	<title>Re:Bastards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265628360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My my, and to think that their government filters the Internet.  I guess that they forgot to check for in country fraud.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My my , and to think that their government filters the Internet .
I guess that they forgot to check for in country fraud .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My my, and to think that their government filters the Internet.
I guess that they forgot to check for in country fraud.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057636</id>
	<title>AWESOME FP</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265561220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">BSDI is al5o dead, EFNet, and apply</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>BSDI is al5o dead , EFNet , and apply [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>BSDI is al5o dead, EFNet, and apply [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31061686</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>magarity</author>
	<datestamp>1265651100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Toxic waste could be dumped in the garbage</i> <br>
&nbsp; <br>In China they already dump the toxic waste from manufacturing the legit products straight into the town storm drains.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Toxic waste could be dumped in the garbage   In China they already dump the toxic waste from manufacturing the legit products straight into the town storm drains .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Toxic waste could be dumped in the garbage 
  In China they already dump the toxic waste from manufacturing the legit products straight into the town storm drains.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056868</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057348</id>
	<title>Re:Bastards</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265558520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For people outside the US, this whole cutting deals and plead bargain stuff reads like, the whole system of justice is corrupt to the bone by design.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For people outside the US , this whole cutting deals and plead bargain stuff reads like , the whole system of justice is corrupt to the bone by design .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For people outside the US, this whole cutting deals and plead bargain stuff reads like, the whole system of justice is corrupt to the bone by design.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057314</id>
	<title>Re:Crisco??</title>
	<author>Zen Hash</author>
	<datestamp>1265558280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"You're telling me that Crisco makes delicious pie crusts AND hi-end networking equipment?  Sold!"</p></div><p>I've seen support requests emailed in from network admins needing assistance with their "<a href="http://www.sysco.com/" title="sysco.com">Sysco</a> [sysco.com] routers..."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" You 're telling me that Crisco makes delicious pie crusts AND hi-end networking equipment ?
Sold ! " I 've seen support requests emailed in from network admins needing assistance with their " Sysco [ sysco.com ] routers... "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You're telling me that Crisco makes delicious pie crusts AND hi-end networking equipment?
Sold!"I've seen support requests emailed in from network admins needing assistance with their "Sysco [sysco.com] routers..."
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056898</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058050</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>mjensen</author>
	<datestamp>1265565120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not really the cheap you intend, but USA military often removes the RoHS solder for the old fashioned lead solder.  They do this because there is a LOT of data to back up the lead solder, and lead-free solder hasn't been studied enough.  Their putting trusting something they know (good and bad on lead) instead of an unknown (lead-free).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not really the cheap you intend , but USA military often removes the RoHS solder for the old fashioned lead solder .
They do this because there is a LOT of data to back up the lead solder , and lead-free solder has n't been studied enough .
Their putting trusting something they know ( good and bad on lead ) instead of an unknown ( lead-free ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not really the cheap you intend, but USA military often removes the RoHS solder for the old fashioned lead solder.
They do this because there is a LOT of data to back up the lead solder, and lead-free solder hasn't been studied enough.
Their putting trusting something they know (good and bad on lead) instead of an unknown (lead-free).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057026</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058222</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>NicknamesAreStupid</author>
	<datestamp>1265567040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is exactly 30 Internet years.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is exactly 30 Internet years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is exactly 30 Internet years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056788</id>
	<title>hmm....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265553060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>This may explain some issues my employer's having with their "Cisco" equipment... lol Knowing them they bought it on the cheap and got screwed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This may explain some issues my employer 's having with their " Cisco " equipment... lol Knowing them they bought it on the cheap and got screwed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This may explain some issues my employer's having with their "Cisco" equipment... lol Knowing them they bought it on the cheap and got screwed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057050</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>OOSCARR</author>
	<datestamp>1265555700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Maybe he confused 2.5 years Jupiter  = 30 years Earth</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe he confused 2.5 years Jupiter = 30 years Earth</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe he confused 2.5 years Jupiter  = 30 years Earth</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31059862</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Sleepy</author>
	<datestamp>1265639280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fake is a broad definition but simple to describe: it's unauthorized and unsupported by Cisco.</p><p>Trying to determine if the fakes are "0\% accurate" or "50\% accurate" is not really possible, given all the small parts and encrypted firmware, etc. It's counterfit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fake is a broad definition but simple to describe : it 's unauthorized and unsupported by Cisco.Trying to determine if the fakes are " 0 \ % accurate " or " 50 \ % accurate " is not really possible , given all the small parts and encrypted firmware , etc .
It 's counterfit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fake is a broad definition but simple to describe: it's unauthorized and unsupported by Cisco.Trying to determine if the fakes are "0\% accurate" or "50\% accurate" is not really possible, given all the small parts and encrypted firmware, etc.
It's counterfit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31064548</id>
	<title>More a security scare than trademark issue</title>
	<author>FreekyGeek</author>
	<datestamp>1265621880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd bet money that 1) this guy is an agent of the Chinese government in some way or another, and 2) a CRC of the microcode for the firmware in these routers would not match the CRC of the microcode in an American-made one.</p><p>Think about it.  If *I* were China and I wanted built-in industrial espionage capabilities through an undetectable backdoor, this is *exactly* how I'd do it - with trajaned firmware in counterfeit network hardware.  You got yer plausible deniability, untraceability, undetectability, and a client list happy to get a discount on expensive hardware and not concerned with where it came from.   We know the Chinese are sucking up as much of our intellectual property and technology secrets as they can get their hands on right under our noses while protesting vehemently that they aren't because they know we can't prove it.  Even when we find one of the guys involved like this, they just act shocked, claim they had nothing to do with it, cut him loose to serve a few years, and continue right on doing it with some other patsy.  What better way could there be than to trojan the microcode in network hardware, then sell it at a loss to greedy western corporations who don't give a damn about security if they can save a couple bucks?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd bet money that 1 ) this guy is an agent of the Chinese government in some way or another , and 2 ) a CRC of the microcode for the firmware in these routers would not match the CRC of the microcode in an American-made one.Think about it .
If * I * were China and I wanted built-in industrial espionage capabilities through an undetectable backdoor , this is * exactly * how I 'd do it - with trajaned firmware in counterfeit network hardware .
You got yer plausible deniability , untraceability , undetectability , and a client list happy to get a discount on expensive hardware and not concerned with where it came from .
We know the Chinese are sucking up as much of our intellectual property and technology secrets as they can get their hands on right under our noses while protesting vehemently that they are n't because they know we ca n't prove it .
Even when we find one of the guys involved like this , they just act shocked , claim they had nothing to do with it , cut him loose to serve a few years , and continue right on doing it with some other patsy .
What better way could there be than to trojan the microcode in network hardware , then sell it at a loss to greedy western corporations who do n't give a damn about security if they can save a couple bucks ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd bet money that 1) this guy is an agent of the Chinese government in some way or another, and 2) a CRC of the microcode for the firmware in these routers would not match the CRC of the microcode in an American-made one.Think about it.
If *I* were China and I wanted built-in industrial espionage capabilities through an undetectable backdoor, this is *exactly* how I'd do it - with trajaned firmware in counterfeit network hardware.
You got yer plausible deniability, untraceability, undetectability, and a client list happy to get a discount on expensive hardware and not concerned with where it came from.
We know the Chinese are sucking up as much of our intellectual property and technology secrets as they can get their hands on right under our noses while protesting vehemently that they aren't because they know we can't prove it.
Even when we find one of the guys involved like this, they just act shocked, claim they had nothing to do with it, cut him loose to serve a few years, and continue right on doing it with some other patsy.
What better way could there be than to trojan the microcode in network hardware, then sell it at a loss to greedy western corporations who don't give a damn about security if they can save a couple bucks?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056688</id>
	<title>Signals little for Google et. al.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265552280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>China has apparently decided to get stricter about dealing with counterfeits. This may signal that China is more willing to cooperate with other countries and large corporations. However, as China produces more and more of its own goods, it has a direct economic incentive to cooperate with counterfeiting issues since that will encourage reciprocal behavior in other countries. Moreover, according to TFA, the FBI and the US government in general have been trying in particular to deal with counterfeit Cisco products. So this still took lots of pressure and activity. And Cisco does a lot of business in China, so that's yet another reason China might crack down in a case like this. This thus isn't similar to a  situation like that with Google that fits in with China's broader policies on censorship and how it runs its political system. It shouldn't be surprising that China will occasionally cooperate when it has a direct economic incentive and doesn't risk tainting its people with democracy or free speech.</htmltext>
<tokenext>China has apparently decided to get stricter about dealing with counterfeits .
This may signal that China is more willing to cooperate with other countries and large corporations .
However , as China produces more and more of its own goods , it has a direct economic incentive to cooperate with counterfeiting issues since that will encourage reciprocal behavior in other countries .
Moreover , according to TFA , the FBI and the US government in general have been trying in particular to deal with counterfeit Cisco products .
So this still took lots of pressure and activity .
And Cisco does a lot of business in China , so that 's yet another reason China might crack down in a case like this .
This thus is n't similar to a situation like that with Google that fits in with China 's broader policies on censorship and how it runs its political system .
It should n't be surprising that China will occasionally cooperate when it has a direct economic incentive and does n't risk tainting its people with democracy or free speech .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>China has apparently decided to get stricter about dealing with counterfeits.
This may signal that China is more willing to cooperate with other countries and large corporations.
However, as China produces more and more of its own goods, it has a direct economic incentive to cooperate with counterfeiting issues since that will encourage reciprocal behavior in other countries.
Moreover, according to TFA, the FBI and the US government in general have been trying in particular to deal with counterfeit Cisco products.
So this still took lots of pressure and activity.
And Cisco does a lot of business in China, so that's yet another reason China might crack down in a case like this.
This thus isn't similar to a  situation like that with Google that fits in with China's broader policies on censorship and how it runs its political system.
It shouldn't be surprising that China will occasionally cooperate when it has a direct economic incentive and doesn't risk tainting its people with democracy or free speech.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31071676</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Life2Death</author>
	<datestamp>1265728980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I may or may not have a say on this as I may or may not know how Cisco makes their products...</p><p>They farm the work out to 3rd parties much like AMD has its fab labs - last I heard we here in the US make the first runs of Cisco stuff and then its shipped over to China to be mass produced as thats cheaper than making it here.</p><p>I may or may not work for one of the biggest PCB fabbers here. Maybe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I may or may not have a say on this as I may or may not know how Cisco makes their products...They farm the work out to 3rd parties much like AMD has its fab labs - last I heard we here in the US make the first runs of Cisco stuff and then its shipped over to China to be mass produced as thats cheaper than making it here.I may or may not work for one of the biggest PCB fabbers here .
Maybe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I may or may not have a say on this as I may or may not know how Cisco makes their products...They farm the work out to 3rd parties much like AMD has its fab labs - last I heard we here in the US make the first runs of Cisco stuff and then its shipped over to China to be mass produced as thats cheaper than making it here.I may or may not work for one of the biggest PCB fabbers here.
Maybe.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056830</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058866</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>iphinome</author>
	<datestamp>1265620500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If we go by the book like Lt kdawson, hours would seem like days.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If we go by the book like Lt kdawson , hours would seem like days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If we go by the book like Lt kdawson, hours would seem like days.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056998</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>Mr. Freeman</author>
	<datestamp>1265555100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, everything he says is days instead of months.  Other than that he's quite fine really.  Just make sure you don't say "mattress" to Mr. lambert, instead, call them "dog kennels".<br><br>&lt;/monty python&gt;</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , everything he says is days instead of months .
Other than that he 's quite fine really .
Just make sure you do n't say " mattress " to Mr. lambert , instead , call them " dog kennels " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, everything he says is days instead of months.
Other than that he's quite fine really.
Just make sure you don't say "mattress" to Mr. lambert, instead, call them "dog kennels".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056750</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056702</id>
	<title>Re:Bastards</title>
	<author>Asadullah Ahmad</author>
	<datestamp>1265552340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Couldn't agree more. There might be a lot more people in China ready to keep the business going, but there are not going to be that many in US. It'll be a surprise for me if they got away because of some <i>powerful</i> contacts.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Could n't agree more .
There might be a lot more people in China ready to keep the business going , but there are not going to be that many in US .
It 'll be a surprise for me if they got away because of some powerful contacts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Couldn't agree more.
There might be a lot more people in China ready to keep the business going, but there are not going to be that many in US.
It'll be a surprise for me if they got away because of some powerful contacts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058890</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265620980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Over  $14000.00!?<br>Come on, be truthful, its listed as $13,854.99</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Over $ 14000.00 !
? Come on , be truthful , its listed as $ 13,854.99</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Over  $14000.00!
?Come on, be truthful, its listed as $13,854.99</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31059304</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Antique Geekmeister</author>
	<datestamp>1265629080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh, dear, yes. I've had just this happen with Adaptec controllers: this sort of nonsense is extremely common in low-end "pizza-box" servers. I've cost such vendors money and gotten the compoany I worked for barred as a customer when shown the non-spec detritus that was inside them, read the vendor the riot act on their contract, and shipped back the whole pallet of servers for them to replace components with the parts we actually ordered. The idiot over in purchasing kept buying non-approved hardware from the lowest cost vendors, as his boss kept telling him was policy, and we kept having projects delayed because the equipment didn't work the way it was supposed to. I still remember the hand-wired piece of dog filth they tried to tell us was a Rocketport remote serial controller device: it was a study in how \_not\_ to hand a wiring diagram to a programmer and expect something to work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , dear , yes .
I 've had just this happen with Adaptec controllers : this sort of nonsense is extremely common in low-end " pizza-box " servers .
I 've cost such vendors money and gotten the compoany I worked for barred as a customer when shown the non-spec detritus that was inside them , read the vendor the riot act on their contract , and shipped back the whole pallet of servers for them to replace components with the parts we actually ordered .
The idiot over in purchasing kept buying non-approved hardware from the lowest cost vendors , as his boss kept telling him was policy , and we kept having projects delayed because the equipment did n't work the way it was supposed to .
I still remember the hand-wired piece of dog filth they tried to tell us was a Rocketport remote serial controller device : it was a study in how \ _not \ _ to hand a wiring diagram to a programmer and expect something to work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, dear, yes.
I've had just this happen with Adaptec controllers: this sort of nonsense is extremely common in low-end "pizza-box" servers.
I've cost such vendors money and gotten the compoany I worked for barred as a customer when shown the non-spec detritus that was inside them, read the vendor the riot act on their contract, and shipped back the whole pallet of servers for them to replace components with the parts we actually ordered.
The idiot over in purchasing kept buying non-approved hardware from the lowest cost vendors, as his boss kept telling him was policy, and we kept having projects delayed because the equipment didn't work the way it was supposed to.
I still remember the hand-wired piece of dog filth they tried to tell us was a Rocketport remote serial controller device: it was a study in how \_not\_ to hand a wiring diagram to a programmer and expect something to work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056868</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31059014</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>Inda</author>
	<datestamp>1265623440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ooooooh, kdawson posts another Slanty Eyed Chinky story. This time with a you-crook, you-pay, no-argue, you-pay slant.<br><br>I look forward to the next Chinese story. Maybe have a Kung-fu connection to enhance the stereotype.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ooooooh , kdawson posts another Slanty Eyed Chinky story .
This time with a you-crook , you-pay , no-argue , you-pay slant.I look forward to the next Chinese story .
Maybe have a Kung-fu connection to enhance the stereotype .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ooooooh, kdawson posts another Slanty Eyed Chinky story.
This time with a you-crook, you-pay, no-argue, you-pay slant.I look forward to the next Chinese story.
Maybe have a Kung-fu connection to enhance the stereotype.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31060876</id>
	<title>Re:Signals little for Google et. al.</title>
	<author>LarrySDonald</author>
	<datestamp>1265647080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That was kind of my thought as well. Lots of interesting things coming out of China (legit) and they may feel it's time to start moving more people toward 100\% legit designs. Kind of like coding the rest of proprietary code out of a project bit by bit until it's all open. They're essentially pulling a Japan - going from "low quality copies" to "high quality copies" to "high quality imitations" to "the people others imitate". Incidentally exactly what the US did when it began, but that was before electronics.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That was kind of my thought as well .
Lots of interesting things coming out of China ( legit ) and they may feel it 's time to start moving more people toward 100 \ % legit designs .
Kind of like coding the rest of proprietary code out of a project bit by bit until it 's all open .
They 're essentially pulling a Japan - going from " low quality copies " to " high quality copies " to " high quality imitations " to " the people others imitate " .
Incidentally exactly what the US did when it began , but that was before electronics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That was kind of my thought as well.
Lots of interesting things coming out of China (legit) and they may feel it's time to start moving more people toward 100\% legit designs.
Kind of like coding the rest of proprietary code out of a project bit by bit until it's all open.
They're essentially pulling a Japan - going from "low quality copies" to "high quality copies" to "high quality imitations" to "the people others imitate".
Incidentally exactly what the US did when it began, but that was before electronics.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056688</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31062172</id>
	<title>Imaginary property?</title>
	<author>mi</author>
	<datestamp>1265653500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the routers are just as good as the "genuine" except that Cisco didn't get paid for the use of their name, then is not this another case, when the <strong>imaginary property</strong> (on "trademark") rears its ugly (if imaginary) head?

</p><p>Yes, the buyers were lead to believe, they are buying the "real" thing, but that's between them and the seller.

</p><p>But the US government is involved &mdash; on behalf of a <a href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=CSCO" title="yahoo.com">fat corporation</a> [yahoo.com], which means, Cisco ought now to be frowned upon, just as the mafiAA members are.

</p><p>And yet, kdawson seems to be giving Cisco a much easier time in his write-up, than <a href="http://yro.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=kdawson+MPAA" title="slashdot.org">usual in such cases</a> [slashdot.org]... The <a href="http://slashdot.org/~NewYorkCountryLawyer" title="slashdot.org">New York Country Lawyer</a> [slashdot.org] and the "I don't believe in Imaginary Property", who denounce entertainment-owners for trying to enforce their (imaginary) property rights, and fight them on any technicality imaginable,  aren't anywhere in sight either... Is this because these people only want freedom to steal for the stuff, they might be interested in <em>themselves</em>?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the routers are just as good as the " genuine " except that Cisco did n't get paid for the use of their name , then is not this another case , when the imaginary property ( on " trademark " ) rears its ugly ( if imaginary ) head ?
Yes , the buyers were lead to believe , they are buying the " real " thing , but that 's between them and the seller .
But the US government is involved    on behalf of a fat corporation [ yahoo.com ] , which means , Cisco ought now to be frowned upon , just as the mafiAA members are .
And yet , kdawson seems to be giving Cisco a much easier time in his write-up , than usual in such cases [ slashdot.org ] ... The New York Country Lawyer [ slashdot.org ] and the " I do n't believe in Imaginary Property " , who denounce entertainment-owners for trying to enforce their ( imaginary ) property rights , and fight them on any technicality imaginable , are n't anywhere in sight either... Is this because these people only want freedom to steal for the stuff , they might be interested in themselves ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the routers are just as good as the "genuine" except that Cisco didn't get paid for the use of their name, then is not this another case, when the imaginary property (on "trademark") rears its ugly (if imaginary) head?
Yes, the buyers were lead to believe, they are buying the "real" thing, but that's between them and the seller.
But the US government is involved — on behalf of a fat corporation [yahoo.com], which means, Cisco ought now to be frowned upon, just as the mafiAA members are.
And yet, kdawson seems to be giving Cisco a much easier time in his write-up, than usual in such cases [slashdot.org]... The New York Country Lawyer [slashdot.org] and the "I don't believe in Imaginary Property", who denounce entertainment-owners for trying to enforce their (imaginary) property rights, and fight them on any technicality imaginable,  aren't anywhere in sight either... Is this because these people only want freedom to steal for the stuff, they might be interested in themselves?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057804</id>
	<title>China's preferred trade partner status</title>
	<author>Dreben</author>
	<datestamp>1265562900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And yet China continues to be a preferred trade partner to the "free" world.  What the hell does this even mean anymore?  They poison our children with first lead, then cadmium laced jewellery, they hack our networks an infest them with malware/spyware, force labor upon their own children, yet they are our "friends" because we can buy their crap for cheap and sell it at Walmart.</p><p>Isn't it time to reevaluate our trade partner status with this country that is set on deceiving us with every opportunity they get?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And yet China continues to be a preferred trade partner to the " free " world .
What the hell does this even mean anymore ?
They poison our children with first lead , then cadmium laced jewellery , they hack our networks an infest them with malware/spyware , force labor upon their own children , yet they are our " friends " because we can buy their crap for cheap and sell it at Walmart.Is n't it time to reevaluate our trade partner status with this country that is set on deceiving us with every opportunity they get ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And yet China continues to be a preferred trade partner to the "free" world.
What the hell does this even mean anymore?
They poison our children with first lead, then cadmium laced jewellery, they hack our networks an infest them with malware/spyware, force labor upon their own children, yet they are our "friends" because we can buy their crap for cheap and sell it at Walmart.Isn't it time to reevaluate our trade partner status with this country that is set on deceiving us with every opportunity they get?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056858</id>
	<title>It must be those fake Cisco...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265553600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Real Cisco --- 30 years turn into 30 months.</p><p>Fake Cisco --- 30 months turn into 30 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Real Cisco --- 30 years turn into 30 months.Fake Cisco --- 30 months turn into 30 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Real Cisco --- 30 years turn into 30 months.Fake Cisco --- 30 months turn into 30 years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057134</id>
	<title>win win for Cisco</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265556600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Farm out production to cheap labor in a country that has little regard for IP.  Cisco wins<br>Get FBI and US justice department to enforce and foot the bill for counterfeiting under the guise of "National security".  Cisco wins</p><p>In both cases, Cisco wins and in all cases the US citizens lose.  We foot the bill, lose the jobs, get Chinese made equipment in our government and pay with tax dollars to support Ciscos business decision.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Farm out production to cheap labor in a country that has little regard for IP .
Cisco winsGet FBI and US justice department to enforce and foot the bill for counterfeiting under the guise of " National security " .
Cisco winsIn both cases , Cisco wins and in all cases the US citizens lose .
We foot the bill , lose the jobs , get Chinese made equipment in our government and pay with tax dollars to support Ciscos business decision .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Farm out production to cheap labor in a country that has little regard for IP.
Cisco winsGet FBI and US justice department to enforce and foot the bill for counterfeiting under the guise of "National security".
Cisco winsIn both cases, Cisco wins and in all cases the US citizens lose.
We foot the bill, lose the jobs, get Chinese made equipment in our government and pay with tax dollars to support Ciscos business decision.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058174</id>
	<title>Re:Crisco??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265566500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I met a guy that worked as a security guard for Cisco, and he was telling me about some people that had stolen pallets out of the back of trucks, and they had no leads.  In my head I'm thinking that people just made off with millions of dollars in Cisco routers and such.  It was weeks later when his employment came back up and I realized he worked for Sysco, and somebody had stolen some pallets of food.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I met a guy that worked as a security guard for Cisco , and he was telling me about some people that had stolen pallets out of the back of trucks , and they had no leads .
In my head I 'm thinking that people just made off with millions of dollars in Cisco routers and such .
It was weeks later when his employment came back up and I realized he worked for Sysco , and somebody had stolen some pallets of food .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I met a guy that worked as a security guard for Cisco, and he was telling me about some people that had stolen pallets out of the back of trucks, and they had no leads.
In my head I'm thinking that people just made off with millions of dollars in Cisco routers and such.
It was weeks later when his employment came back up and I realized he worked for Sysco, and somebody had stolen some pallets of food.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057314</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057876</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265563500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Umm, I am pretty sure that's because you don't get an $800,000 fine for selling drugs.  It's strictly criminal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm , I am pretty sure that 's because you do n't get an $ 800,000 fine for selling drugs .
It 's strictly criminal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm, I am pretty sure that's because you don't get an $800,000 fine for selling drugs.
It's strictly criminal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056768</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056870</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>Penguinshit</author>
	<datestamp>1265553780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wasn't kdawson part of NASA's Mars team a while back?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Was n't kdawson part of NASA 's Mars team a while back ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wasn't kdawson part of NASA's Mars team a while back?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056750</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31062298</id>
	<title>But the real question is ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265654340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>does the fake gear work as well as the Cisco gear ? Is it even made in the same factories ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>does the fake gear work as well as the Cisco gear ?
Is it even made in the same factories ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>does the fake gear work as well as the Cisco gear ?
Is it even made in the same factories ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058414</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Zemran</author>
	<datestamp>1265569920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the goods where made on the company's own production line, that would be theft rather than counterfeit.  The products made in that factory belongs to the company regardless of quality control or time of manufacture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the goods where made on the company 's own production line , that would be theft rather than counterfeit .
The products made in that factory belongs to the company regardless of quality control or time of manufacture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the goods where made on the company's own production line, that would be theft rather than counterfeit.
The products made in that factory belongs to the company regardless of quality control or time of manufacture.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056830</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057068</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>fishexe</author>
	<datestamp>1265555880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There's a lot that can go wrong with counterfeit hardware, even if it's made in the same factory.  Out-of-spec components can be used in place of the high quality ones originally specified by the Cisco engineers.  Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.  Speeding up the production process can lead to shoddy workmanship.  They probably aren't paying inspectors to check the assemblies.  Toxic waste could be dumped in the garbage.</p></div><p>All the things you say are true.  They could also be using parts that were tested and found to be sub-spec, so you could end up buying a router that was made on the actual Cisco assembly line, but was known to be defective and supposed to be destroyed (or made up from similarly condemned components).  That's just yet another thing to worry about, even for apparently identical "genuine" equipment.</p><p>I would have no problem buying, say, bootleg clothes or backpacks made in the same factory as the real deal, but electronics are a whole different ballgame.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a lot that can go wrong with counterfeit hardware , even if it 's made in the same factory .
Out-of-spec components can be used in place of the high quality ones originally specified by the Cisco engineers .
Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label .
Speeding up the production process can lead to shoddy workmanship .
They probably are n't paying inspectors to check the assemblies .
Toxic waste could be dumped in the garbage.All the things you say are true .
They could also be using parts that were tested and found to be sub-spec , so you could end up buying a router that was made on the actual Cisco assembly line , but was known to be defective and supposed to be destroyed ( or made up from similarly condemned components ) .
That 's just yet another thing to worry about , even for apparently identical " genuine " equipment.I would have no problem buying , say , bootleg clothes or backpacks made in the same factory as the real deal , but electronics are a whole different ballgame .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a lot that can go wrong with counterfeit hardware, even if it's made in the same factory.
Out-of-spec components can be used in place of the high quality ones originally specified by the Cisco engineers.
Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.
Speeding up the production process can lead to shoddy workmanship.
They probably aren't paying inspectors to check the assemblies.
Toxic waste could be dumped in the garbage.All the things you say are true.
They could also be using parts that were tested and found to be sub-spec, so you could end up buying a router that was made on the actual Cisco assembly line, but was known to be defective and supposed to be destroyed (or made up from similarly condemned components).
That's just yet another thing to worry about, even for apparently identical "genuine" equipment.I would have no problem buying, say, bootleg clothes or backpacks made in the same factory as the real deal, but electronics are a whole different ballgame.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056868</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31059962</id>
	<title>Couple things</title>
	<author>Sycraft-fu</author>
	<datestamp>1265640420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The big thing that makes it counterfeit is that it says it is made by Cisco and isn't. That right there is what really causes the problem. There's nothing saying you can't make a device like a Cisco device and sell it. In fact, you'll find many companies do. HP's ProCurve switches were made to function a lot like Cisco switches (at least last time I used them, which was some time ago). For that matter you can make cards to plug in to Cisco's gear under your own label. All this is perfectly fine. However, when you start claiming that such gear is made by Cisco, well then you are counterfeiting.</p><p>In some cases it also might be a copyright infringement issue. Some Cisco hardware is fairly simplistic/standard on the hardware side. Their older PIX firewalls were like that. They were more or less just specialized PCs. Ok well that means someone could make similar hardware without much trouble, and legally. However the code that actually made it a PIX was owned by Cisco. That's where a counterfeiter might decide to just copy that and use it on their own device, since the development of the code is the hard and expensive part.</p><p>As for what problems it has technically? Usually such counterfeit gear is made bottom dollar. The cheapest materials, components and processes are used. As such there can be reliability issues that you don't find with brand name equipment. Also there's the problem of support/replacement. If the item is counterfeit, well the company that it is ripped off from won't deal with it, the counterfeiter won't deal with it, so you are basically can't do anything but buy a new one.</p><p>Another potential problem would be backdoors. You don't know who the counterfeiter is associated with, and perhaps they insert backdoors in to their equipment. After all, they clearly have some rather shady morals to being with, such a thing would be far more likely with them than with a legit company. When you get genuine Cisco gear, you are just about as certain as you can be that it is free of hidden backdoors. After all, the stuff is extremely widely used, including by governments for classified uses. If there were backdoors, the chance of them getting found would be high. However when you use counterfeit stuff, well who knows? You know nothing about the company behind it, as they've gone out of their way to hide.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The big thing that makes it counterfeit is that it says it is made by Cisco and is n't .
That right there is what really causes the problem .
There 's nothing saying you ca n't make a device like a Cisco device and sell it .
In fact , you 'll find many companies do .
HP 's ProCurve switches were made to function a lot like Cisco switches ( at least last time I used them , which was some time ago ) .
For that matter you can make cards to plug in to Cisco 's gear under your own label .
All this is perfectly fine .
However , when you start claiming that such gear is made by Cisco , well then you are counterfeiting.In some cases it also might be a copyright infringement issue .
Some Cisco hardware is fairly simplistic/standard on the hardware side .
Their older PIX firewalls were like that .
They were more or less just specialized PCs .
Ok well that means someone could make similar hardware without much trouble , and legally .
However the code that actually made it a PIX was owned by Cisco .
That 's where a counterfeiter might decide to just copy that and use it on their own device , since the development of the code is the hard and expensive part.As for what problems it has technically ?
Usually such counterfeit gear is made bottom dollar .
The cheapest materials , components and processes are used .
As such there can be reliability issues that you do n't find with brand name equipment .
Also there 's the problem of support/replacement .
If the item is counterfeit , well the company that it is ripped off from wo n't deal with it , the counterfeiter wo n't deal with it , so you are basically ca n't do anything but buy a new one.Another potential problem would be backdoors .
You do n't know who the counterfeiter is associated with , and perhaps they insert backdoors in to their equipment .
After all , they clearly have some rather shady morals to being with , such a thing would be far more likely with them than with a legit company .
When you get genuine Cisco gear , you are just about as certain as you can be that it is free of hidden backdoors .
After all , the stuff is extremely widely used , including by governments for classified uses .
If there were backdoors , the chance of them getting found would be high .
However when you use counterfeit stuff , well who knows ?
You know nothing about the company behind it , as they 've gone out of their way to hide .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The big thing that makes it counterfeit is that it says it is made by Cisco and isn't.
That right there is what really causes the problem.
There's nothing saying you can't make a device like a Cisco device and sell it.
In fact, you'll find many companies do.
HP's ProCurve switches were made to function a lot like Cisco switches (at least last time I used them, which was some time ago).
For that matter you can make cards to plug in to Cisco's gear under your own label.
All this is perfectly fine.
However, when you start claiming that such gear is made by Cisco, well then you are counterfeiting.In some cases it also might be a copyright infringement issue.
Some Cisco hardware is fairly simplistic/standard on the hardware side.
Their older PIX firewalls were like that.
They were more or less just specialized PCs.
Ok well that means someone could make similar hardware without much trouble, and legally.
However the code that actually made it a PIX was owned by Cisco.
That's where a counterfeiter might decide to just copy that and use it on their own device, since the development of the code is the hard and expensive part.As for what problems it has technically?
Usually such counterfeit gear is made bottom dollar.
The cheapest materials, components and processes are used.
As such there can be reliability issues that you don't find with brand name equipment.
Also there's the problem of support/replacement.
If the item is counterfeit, well the company that it is ripped off from won't deal with it, the counterfeiter won't deal with it, so you are basically can't do anything but buy a new one.Another potential problem would be backdoors.
You don't know who the counterfeiter is associated with, and perhaps they insert backdoors in to their equipment.
After all, they clearly have some rather shady morals to being with, such a thing would be far more likely with them than with a legit company.
When you get genuine Cisco gear, you are just about as certain as you can be that it is free of hidden backdoors.
After all, the stuff is extremely widely used, including by governments for classified uses.
If there were backdoors, the chance of them getting found would be high.
However when you use counterfeit stuff, well who knows?
You know nothing about the company behind it, as they've gone out of their way to hide.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057008</id>
	<title>the fact of the matter</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265555220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>is that this stuff is so massively overpriced that there will certainly always be a counterfeit market</p><p>i can understand a premium for the latest 10gbe switch with 800 ports and 6 cabinets connected with virtual etherfuck technology, but for the smaller stuff, accelerating the total commodization of the low end would be better served by consistent manufacturers in china working with quality open source linux and bsd implementations and open fpga designs. or by the counterfeiters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>is that this stuff is so massively overpriced that there will certainly always be a counterfeit marketi can understand a premium for the latest 10gbe switch with 800 ports and 6 cabinets connected with virtual etherfuck technology , but for the smaller stuff , accelerating the total commodization of the low end would be better served by consistent manufacturers in china working with quality open source linux and bsd implementations and open fpga designs .
or by the counterfeiters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>is that this stuff is so massively overpriced that there will certainly always be a counterfeit marketi can understand a premium for the latest 10gbe switch with 800 ports and 6 cabinets connected with virtual etherfuck technology, but for the smaller stuff, accelerating the total commodization of the low end would be better served by consistent manufacturers in china working with quality open source linux and bsd implementations and open fpga designs.
or by the counterfeiters.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057510</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1265560260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>:s/1:\$/\%/<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p><p>P.S.: Hey, you can actually have that replacement right now:<br><a href="http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/62062" title="userscripts.org">http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/62062</a> [userscripts.org]<br>Just add the expression in there.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>: s/1 : \ $ / \ % / ; ) P.S .
: Hey , you can actually have that replacement right now : http : //userscripts.org/scripts/show/62062 [ userscripts.org ] Just add the expression in there .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>:s/1:\$/\%/ ;)P.S.
: Hey, you can actually have that replacement right now:http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/62062 [userscripts.org]Just add the expression in there.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056772</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056680</id>
	<title>Re:Bastards</title>
	<author>whoever57</author>
	<datestamp>1265552220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>And why not? These guys should be getting just as much time as the other dude.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Perhaps because they cut a deal with the DA's office?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And why not ?
These guys should be getting just as much time as the other dude .
Perhaps because they cut a deal with the DA 's office ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And why not?
These guys should be getting just as much time as the other dude.
Perhaps because they cut a deal with the DA's office?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056626</id>
	<title>30 months</title>
	<author>mbone</author>
	<datestamp>1265551680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The headline should read "30 months," as in the Network World Article (2 and 1/2 years is 30 months).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The headline should read " 30 months , " as in the Network World Article ( 2 and 1/2 years is 30 months ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The headline should read "30 months," as in the Network World Article (2 and 1/2 years is 30 months).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056602</id>
	<title>30 or 2.5?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265551500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well is it thirty years or two and a half?</p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>/CF</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well is it thirty years or two and a half ?
/CF</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well is it thirty years or two and a half?
/CF</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056760</id>
	<title>What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265552700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The question is, what counts as counterfeit hardware? Is he taking, say "genuine" Cisco hardware (as in, made in the same factory just not with the Cisco name on it) and selling it as real Cisco hardware, is he taking inferior components to make his hardware, is the hardware functional?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The question is , what counts as counterfeit hardware ?
Is he taking , say " genuine " Cisco hardware ( as in , made in the same factory just not with the Cisco name on it ) and selling it as real Cisco hardware , is he taking inferior components to make his hardware , is the hardware functional ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The question is, what counts as counterfeit hardware?
Is he taking, say "genuine" Cisco hardware (as in, made in the same factory just not with the Cisco name on it) and selling it as real Cisco hardware, is he taking inferior components to make his hardware, is the hardware functional?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31060288</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265642640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Cisco is begging for a counterfeit market for their parts, because they mark up prices to insane levels.</p></div><p>It's Cisco's choice to charge whatever they want. There is a reason why people choose Cisco, and it's not the price. Just because they put a nice fat markup on their products, doesn't authorise you to steal/counterfeit their gear. Ideally, some up-and-coming hotshot would see the gap in the market &amp; develop geniue gear to tackle Cisco at an affordable price. Hmmmm.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cisco is begging for a counterfeit market for their parts , because they mark up prices to insane levels.It 's Cisco 's choice to charge whatever they want .
There is a reason why people choose Cisco , and it 's not the price .
Just because they put a nice fat markup on their products , does n't authorise you to steal/counterfeit their gear .
Ideally , some up-and-coming hotshot would see the gap in the market &amp; develop geniue gear to tackle Cisco at an affordable price .
Hmmmm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cisco is begging for a counterfeit market for their parts, because they mark up prices to insane levels.It's Cisco's choice to charge whatever they want.
There is a reason why people choose Cisco, and it's not the price.
Just because they put a nice fat markup on their products, doesn't authorise you to steal/counterfeit their gear.
Ideally, some up-and-coming hotshot would see the gap in the market &amp; develop geniue gear to tackle Cisco at an affordable price.
Hmmmm.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057122</id>
	<title>coulda been worse...</title>
	<author>Tumbleweed</author>
	<datestamp>1265556540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just think how much time he'd have gotten if they were *real* Ciscos!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just think how much time he 'd have gotten if they were * real * Ciscos !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just think how much time he'd have gotten if they were *real* Ciscos!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057240</id>
	<title>mod 04</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265557620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>there are only benefIts of 3eing</htmltext>
<tokenext>there are only benefIts of 3eing</tokentext>
<sentencetext>there are only benefIts of 3eing</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058330</id>
	<title>What goes around, comes around</title>
	<author>NicknamesAreStupid</author>
	<datestamp>1265568600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>About 13 years ago, the government of China contacted Cisco through its Hong Kong office and said "China has been very good to Cisco.  Now it is time for Cisco to be very good to China."  They forced Cisco to open factories in China, and China started a company later known as Huawei, run by some army generals.  The Internet was becoming a major communications component of their country, both private and government, and they did not like the idea that their infrastructure would be made in America.  Once Cisco opened their Chinese factories, someone in China began almost immediately cloning Cisco hardware.  I wonder who?  The clones were so close that they even had the same bugs.<br> <br>
Cisco seemed to put up with this for a while, since almost all of the hardware was kept within China.  Then, sometime in the last ten years, I can't remember when, Huawei started selling Cisco-like hardware worldwide.  At that point, Cisco sued and forced them to stop all international sales of the disputed products.  Later, Huawei rewrote its router code and even licensed code from another American company.<br> <br>
So, what to do with all that surplus manufacturing capacity?</htmltext>
<tokenext>About 13 years ago , the government of China contacted Cisco through its Hong Kong office and said " China has been very good to Cisco .
Now it is time for Cisco to be very good to China .
" They forced Cisco to open factories in China , and China started a company later known as Huawei , run by some army generals .
The Internet was becoming a major communications component of their country , both private and government , and they did not like the idea that their infrastructure would be made in America .
Once Cisco opened their Chinese factories , someone in China began almost immediately cloning Cisco hardware .
I wonder who ?
The clones were so close that they even had the same bugs .
Cisco seemed to put up with this for a while , since almost all of the hardware was kept within China .
Then , sometime in the last ten years , I ca n't remember when , Huawei started selling Cisco-like hardware worldwide .
At that point , Cisco sued and forced them to stop all international sales of the disputed products .
Later , Huawei rewrote its router code and even licensed code from another American company .
So , what to do with all that surplus manufacturing capacity ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>About 13 years ago, the government of China contacted Cisco through its Hong Kong office and said "China has been very good to Cisco.
Now it is time for Cisco to be very good to China.
"  They forced Cisco to open factories in China, and China started a company later known as Huawei, run by some army generals.
The Internet was becoming a major communications component of their country, both private and government, and they did not like the idea that their infrastructure would be made in America.
Once Cisco opened their Chinese factories, someone in China began almost immediately cloning Cisco hardware.
I wonder who?
The clones were so close that they even had the same bugs.
Cisco seemed to put up with this for a while, since almost all of the hardware was kept within China.
Then, sometime in the last ten years, I can't remember when, Huawei started selling Cisco-like hardware worldwide.
At that point, Cisco sued and forced them to stop all international sales of the disputed products.
Later, Huawei rewrote its router code and even licensed code from another American company.
So, what to do with all that surplus manufacturing capacity?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056596</id>
	<title>Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265551440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>2.5 years is not 30 years, it&rsquo;s 30 months.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>2.5 years is not 30 years , it    s 30 months .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>2.5 years is not 30 years, it’s 30 months.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31059066</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>mwvdlee</author>
	<datestamp>1265624340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or it could just be assembly line "overrun"; products that are in every way exactly like the products sold but simply not accounted for in the normal production run.<br>Imagine Cisco ordering production of 1,000 routers and the factory producing 1,100 routers and keeping 100 off the books. Those 100 are completely identical to the rest but merely "left over" from the production run.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or it could just be assembly line " overrun " ; products that are in every way exactly like the products sold but simply not accounted for in the normal production run.Imagine Cisco ordering production of 1,000 routers and the factory producing 1,100 routers and keeping 100 off the books .
Those 100 are completely identical to the rest but merely " left over " from the production run .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or it could just be assembly line "overrun"; products that are in every way exactly like the products sold but simply not accounted for in the normal production run.Imagine Cisco ordering production of 1,000 routers and the factory producing 1,100 routers and keeping 100 off the books.
Those 100 are completely identical to the rest but merely "left over" from the production run.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056750</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265552640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>2.5 years is not 30 years, it&rsquo;s 30 months.</p></div><p>I'd hate to see how long kdawson is gone when he takes his 30 minute lunch break.</p><p>Boss: it was a 30 minute break. You were gone a month!!!<br>kdawson: Yeah I always get small details like that mixed up. I thought you said months. Sorry.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>2.5 years is not 30 years , it    s 30 months.I 'd hate to see how long kdawson is gone when he takes his 30 minute lunch break.Boss : it was a 30 minute break .
You were gone a month ! !
! kdawson : Yeah I always get small details like that mixed up .
I thought you said months .
Sorry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>2.5 years is not 30 years, it’s 30 months.I'd hate to see how long kdawson is gone when he takes his 30 minute lunch break.Boss: it was a 30 minute break.
You were gone a month!!
!kdawson: Yeah I always get small details like that mixed up.
I thought you said months.
Sorry.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056830</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Ron Bennett</author>
	<datestamp>1265553420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even if the units are coming off the exact same production line (some factories, reportedly, occasionally run extra shifts for counterfeiters), some of the components used may be rejects (ie. functional, but outside of spec; think chip fabs) from the legitimate production run; units not tested as rigorously with minimal quality control.</p><p>With that said, even if the unauthorized units are exactly identical, which in the real world is unlikely to the be the case as I've explained above, in regards to the law, it's still counterfeiting.</p><p>Ron</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even if the units are coming off the exact same production line ( some factories , reportedly , occasionally run extra shifts for counterfeiters ) , some of the components used may be rejects ( ie .
functional , but outside of spec ; think chip fabs ) from the legitimate production run ; units not tested as rigorously with minimal quality control.With that said , even if the unauthorized units are exactly identical , which in the real world is unlikely to the be the case as I 've explained above , in regards to the law , it 's still counterfeiting.Ron</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even if the units are coming off the exact same production line (some factories, reportedly, occasionally run extra shifts for counterfeiters), some of the components used may be rejects (ie.
functional, but outside of spec; think chip fabs) from the legitimate production run; units not tested as rigorously with minimal quality control.With that said, even if the unauthorized units are exactly identical, which in the real world is unlikely to the be the case as I've explained above, in regards to the law, it's still counterfeiting.Ron</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31059324</id>
	<title>Re:Bastards</title>
	<author>Antique Geekmeister</author>
	<datestamp>1265629440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Outside the US"? You don't think it happens elsewhere? What do you think informing on your neighbors is all about?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Outside the US " ?
You do n't think it happens elsewhere ?
What do you think informing on your neighbors is all about ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Outside the US"?
You don't think it happens elsewhere?
What do you think informing on your neighbors is all about?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057348</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056966</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>wizardforce</author>
	<datestamp>1265554860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What gets me is that the Slashdot title is exactly the same as the article title except for "months" being replaced with "years."  It'd been more accurate if Kdawson had been lazy about it and just copy/pasted the title.  I'd filter him out if it weren't like watching a car accident.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What gets me is that the Slashdot title is exactly the same as the article title except for " months " being replaced with " years .
" It 'd been more accurate if Kdawson had been lazy about it and just copy/pasted the title .
I 'd filter him out if it were n't like watching a car accident .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What gets me is that the Slashdot title is exactly the same as the article title except for "months" being replaced with "years.
"  It'd been more accurate if Kdawson had been lazy about it and just copy/pasted the title.
I'd filter him out if it weren't like watching a car accident.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058560</id>
	<title>Re:Bastards</title>
	<author>dwater</author>
	<datestamp>1265571600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's obviously because they weren't Chinese, but USians - it's the usual double standards at work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's obviously because they were n't Chinese , but USians - it 's the usual double standards at work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's obviously because they weren't Chinese, but USians - it's the usual double standards at work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058574</id>
	<title>Re:Bastards</title>
	<author>dwater</author>
	<datestamp>1265571780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Because its quite hard to prove it</p><p>It wouldn't normally stop them from being *charged*. In any case, IMO, it should fall into the same category as receiving stolen goods.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Because its quite hard to prove itIt would n't normally stop them from being * charged * .
In any case , IMO , it should fall into the same category as receiving stolen goods .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Because its quite hard to prove itIt wouldn't normally stop them from being *charged*.
In any case, IMO, it should fall into the same category as receiving stolen goods.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056710</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056942</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Ephemeriis</author>
	<datestamp>1265554620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The question is, what counts as counterfeit hardware? Is he taking, say "genuine" Cisco hardware (as in, made in the same factory just not with the Cisco name on it) and selling it as real Cisco hardware, is he taking inferior components to make his hardware, is the hardware functional?</p></div><p>To a very large degree, it doesn't much matter whether he's using the same components as are found in the official Cisco hardware.</p><p>Even if the hardware he's selling is 100\% identical to Cisco hardware, it isn't Cisco.  This means that if I buy something thinking that it's Cisco, and have a problem, I'm going to call up Cisco and complain about it.  And then they're going to tell me that I don't have their hardware.  I'm wasting their time (and money)...  And I've got a product that nobody is going to support.  I won't be able to to download new software for the thing, or purchase new licenses, or anything.</p><p>One of the big reasons that we sell Cisco hardware to our clients is the technical support.  I know that if we sell them a Cisco (with a support contract) and something goes wrong, we can get it fixed in a timely manner.  It doesn't matter if it's a fubared config or a fried bit of hardware...  I can call up Cisco, get in touch with a technician, and get the problem fixed.</p><p>If I found a great deal on Cisco hardware and sold them to my clients...  Then later found out that it was counterfeit hardware and Cisco wouldn't support it...  I'd be in a bit of a fix.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The question is , what counts as counterfeit hardware ?
Is he taking , say " genuine " Cisco hardware ( as in , made in the same factory just not with the Cisco name on it ) and selling it as real Cisco hardware , is he taking inferior components to make his hardware , is the hardware functional ? To a very large degree , it does n't much matter whether he 's using the same components as are found in the official Cisco hardware.Even if the hardware he 's selling is 100 \ % identical to Cisco hardware , it is n't Cisco .
This means that if I buy something thinking that it 's Cisco , and have a problem , I 'm going to call up Cisco and complain about it .
And then they 're going to tell me that I do n't have their hardware .
I 'm wasting their time ( and money ) ... And I 've got a product that nobody is going to support .
I wo n't be able to to download new software for the thing , or purchase new licenses , or anything.One of the big reasons that we sell Cisco hardware to our clients is the technical support .
I know that if we sell them a Cisco ( with a support contract ) and something goes wrong , we can get it fixed in a timely manner .
It does n't matter if it 's a fubared config or a fried bit of hardware... I can call up Cisco , get in touch with a technician , and get the problem fixed.If I found a great deal on Cisco hardware and sold them to my clients... Then later found out that it was counterfeit hardware and Cisco would n't support it... I 'd be in a bit of a fix .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The question is, what counts as counterfeit hardware?
Is he taking, say "genuine" Cisco hardware (as in, made in the same factory just not with the Cisco name on it) and selling it as real Cisco hardware, is he taking inferior components to make his hardware, is the hardware functional?To a very large degree, it doesn't much matter whether he's using the same components as are found in the official Cisco hardware.Even if the hardware he's selling is 100\% identical to Cisco hardware, it isn't Cisco.
This means that if I buy something thinking that it's Cisco, and have a problem, I'm going to call up Cisco and complain about it.
And then they're going to tell me that I don't have their hardware.
I'm wasting their time (and money)...  And I've got a product that nobody is going to support.
I won't be able to to download new software for the thing, or purchase new licenses, or anything.One of the big reasons that we sell Cisco hardware to our clients is the technical support.
I know that if we sell them a Cisco (with a support contract) and something goes wrong, we can get it fixed in a timely manner.
It doesn't matter if it's a fubared config or a fried bit of hardware...  I can call up Cisco, get in touch with a technician, and get the problem fixed.If I found a great deal on Cisco hardware and sold them to my clients...  Then later found out that it was counterfeit hardware and Cisco wouldn't support it...  I'd be in a bit of a fix.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056970</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265554860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have some "fake" Cisco WIC cards for the 2600 series here in a couple of routers.  I'll tell you that they work just as well as regular Cisco WIC cards, and the systems you install them into can't tell the difference.  These have been running reliably for years now.</p><p>Cisco is begging for a counterfeit market for their parts, because they mark up prices to insane levels.</p><p>True, it's the research, development, documentation, and support that makes their products great, but charging what they charge is just stupid.</p><p>Here's an example;</p><p>Intel 2-port 10Gig network card, $2500.00</p><p><a href="http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=1352161" title="cdw.com">http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=1352161</a> [cdw.com]</p><p>Same EXACT card but branded as Cisco costs over $14000.00</p><p><a href="http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=1424619" title="cdw.com">http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=1424619</a> [cdw.com]</p><p>Yes, these are the same cards, my company has several of the large ASA firewalls that these go into, and the Intel cards.  Sit them side by side and they are identical.  At most, different firmware, but I doubt it.  I've never actually tried since we can't be dorking around with production equipment.</p><p>Newer Cisco routers and switches are now using licensing for features and ports, so installing non-Cisco-extortion-priced parts won't really be an issue anyway.  Reference the 3750-E/3560-E switches and those new 1900/2900/3900 series routers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have some " fake " Cisco WIC cards for the 2600 series here in a couple of routers .
I 'll tell you that they work just as well as regular Cisco WIC cards , and the systems you install them into ca n't tell the difference .
These have been running reliably for years now.Cisco is begging for a counterfeit market for their parts , because they mark up prices to insane levels.True , it 's the research , development , documentation , and support that makes their products great , but charging what they charge is just stupid.Here 's an example ; Intel 2-port 10Gig network card , $ 2500.00http : //www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx ? EDC = 1352161 [ cdw.com ] Same EXACT card but branded as Cisco costs over $ 14000.00http : //www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx ? edc = 1424619 [ cdw.com ] Yes , these are the same cards , my company has several of the large ASA firewalls that these go into , and the Intel cards .
Sit them side by side and they are identical .
At most , different firmware , but I doubt it .
I 've never actually tried since we ca n't be dorking around with production equipment.Newer Cisco routers and switches are now using licensing for features and ports , so installing non-Cisco-extortion-priced parts wo n't really be an issue anyway .
Reference the 3750-E/3560-E switches and those new 1900/2900/3900 series routers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have some "fake" Cisco WIC cards for the 2600 series here in a couple of routers.
I'll tell you that they work just as well as regular Cisco WIC cards, and the systems you install them into can't tell the difference.
These have been running reliably for years now.Cisco is begging for a counterfeit market for their parts, because they mark up prices to insane levels.True, it's the research, development, documentation, and support that makes their products great, but charging what they charge is just stupid.Here's an example;Intel 2-port 10Gig network card, $2500.00http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=1352161 [cdw.com]Same EXACT card but branded as Cisco costs over $14000.00http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=1424619 [cdw.com]Yes, these are the same cards, my company has several of the large ASA firewalls that these go into, and the Intel cards.
Sit them side by side and they are identical.
At most, different firmware, but I doubt it.
I've never actually tried since we can't be dorking around with production equipment.Newer Cisco routers and switches are now using licensing for features and ports, so installing non-Cisco-extortion-priced parts won't really be an issue anyway.
Reference the 3750-E/3560-E switches and those new 1900/2900/3900 series routers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056956</id>
	<title>Not good for used buyers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265554740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The counterfeit gear drives down the price of used gear significantly, counterfeit or not.</p><p>Since the counterfeit gear is typically made by the same factories that make the real stuff, quality isn't a big problem.  Some of the lower quality Cisco counterfeits that I encouter are obvious, but still functional (like the guys that were selling obvious fake PA-GEs that still worked fine for $500 ea from San Francisco)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The counterfeit gear drives down the price of used gear significantly , counterfeit or not.Since the counterfeit gear is typically made by the same factories that make the real stuff , quality is n't a big problem .
Some of the lower quality Cisco counterfeits that I encouter are obvious , but still functional ( like the guys that were selling obvious fake PA-GEs that still worked fine for $ 500 ea from San Francisco )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The counterfeit gear drives down the price of used gear significantly, counterfeit or not.Since the counterfeit gear is typically made by the same factories that make the real stuff, quality isn't a big problem.
Some of the lower quality Cisco counterfeits that I encouter are obvious, but still functional (like the guys that were selling obvious fake PA-GEs that still worked fine for $500 ea from San Francisco)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056610</id>
	<title>30 *months*, not 30 years</title>
	<author>RLaager</author>
	<datestamp>1265551560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The title says "30 years", but it's really "30 months" according to the "two-and-a-half years" bit in both the summary and the linked article. Also, the linked article's title says "30 months".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The title says " 30 years " , but it 's really " 30 months " according to the " two-and-a-half years " bit in both the summary and the linked article .
Also , the linked article 's title says " 30 months " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The title says "30 years", but it's really "30 months" according to the "two-and-a-half years" bit in both the summary and the linked article.
Also, the linked article's title says "30 months".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31066188</id>
	<title>Crisco</title>
	<author>flug</author>
	<datestamp>1265628180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Read that as "Chinese Man Gets 30 Months For Fake CRISCO Sales".</p><p>I'm sorry to say, but after the infinite possibilities conjured up by that thought of all those illicit Chinese tubs of CRISCO (what are they doing with it? why do they need so much?  why are they pirating it instead of just buying it a the supermarket? what, er, activities or businesses where they using it for?) the real story about ordinary old hardware counterfeiting was a pretty fair letdown . . . .</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Read that as " Chinese Man Gets 30 Months For Fake CRISCO Sales " .I 'm sorry to say , but after the infinite possibilities conjured up by that thought of all those illicit Chinese tubs of CRISCO ( what are they doing with it ?
why do they need so much ?
why are they pirating it instead of just buying it a the supermarket ?
what , er , activities or businesses where they using it for ?
) the real story about ordinary old hardware counterfeiting was a pretty fair letdown .
. .
.</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Read that as "Chinese Man Gets 30 Months For Fake CRISCO Sales".I'm sorry to say, but after the infinite possibilities conjured up by that thought of all those illicit Chinese tubs of CRISCO (what are they doing with it?
why do they need so much?
why are they pirating it instead of just buying it a the supermarket?
what, er, activities or businesses where they using it for?
) the real story about ordinary old hardware counterfeiting was a pretty fair letdown .
. .
.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31063588</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1265660460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>Sorry, what? Lead-based solder is more reliable than that RoHS crap that's pushed on us these days. I agree that using lead solder in a process suited only for lead-free solder would be a disaster.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label .
Sorry , what ?
Lead-based solder is more reliable than that RoHS crap that 's pushed on us these days .
I agree that using lead solder in a process suited only for lead-free solder would be a disaster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.
Sorry, what?
Lead-based solder is more reliable than that RoHS crap that's pushed on us these days.
I agree that using lead solder in a process suited only for lead-free solder would be a disaster.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056868</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056868</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265553720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's a lot that can go wrong with counterfeit hardware, even if it's made in the same factory.  Out-of-spec components can be used in place of the high quality ones originally specified by the Cisco engineers.  Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.  Speeding up the production process can lead to shoddy workmanship.  They probably aren't paying inspectors to check the assemblies.  Toxic waste could be dumped in the garbage.</p><p>So not only does this make for a trouble-prone product for the customer, it also costs Cisco extra.  A customer who paid for a box labeled Cisco is going to expect the same customer service as one who purchased actual legitimate Cisco hardware.  They're going to send the crappy boxes in for warranty replacements on Cisco's nickel.  And if the quality is sub-par they're going to be complaining about crappy Cisco hardware when it's not Cisco's fault, affecting their brand image.</p><p>In some cases the counterfeiters are fencing stolen but legitimate merchandise, but in most cases they're producing low-quality knock-offs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a lot that can go wrong with counterfeit hardware , even if it 's made in the same factory .
Out-of-spec components can be used in place of the high quality ones originally specified by the Cisco engineers .
Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label .
Speeding up the production process can lead to shoddy workmanship .
They probably are n't paying inspectors to check the assemblies .
Toxic waste could be dumped in the garbage.So not only does this make for a trouble-prone product for the customer , it also costs Cisco extra .
A customer who paid for a box labeled Cisco is going to expect the same customer service as one who purchased actual legitimate Cisco hardware .
They 're going to send the crappy boxes in for warranty replacements on Cisco 's nickel .
And if the quality is sub-par they 're going to be complaining about crappy Cisco hardware when it 's not Cisco 's fault , affecting their brand image.In some cases the counterfeiters are fencing stolen but legitimate merchandise , but in most cases they 're producing low-quality knock-offs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a lot that can go wrong with counterfeit hardware, even if it's made in the same factory.
Out-of-spec components can be used in place of the high quality ones originally specified by the Cisco engineers.
Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.
Speeding up the production process can lead to shoddy workmanship.
They probably aren't paying inspectors to check the assemblies.
Toxic waste could be dumped in the garbage.So not only does this make for a trouble-prone product for the customer, it also costs Cisco extra.
A customer who paid for a box labeled Cisco is going to expect the same customer service as one who purchased actual legitimate Cisco hardware.
They're going to send the crappy boxes in for warranty replacements on Cisco's nickel.
And if the quality is sub-par they're going to be complaining about crappy Cisco hardware when it's not Cisco's fault, affecting their brand image.In some cases the counterfeiters are fencing stolen but legitimate merchandise, but in most cases they're producing low-quality knock-offs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31061286</id>
	<title>Re:What goes around, comes around</title>
	<author>asdfghjklqwertyuiop</author>
	<datestamp>1265649300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How had China been very good to Cisco up to that point if (at that time) China wasn't buying much of Cisco's stuff and Cisco wasn't manufacturing in China either?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How had China been very good to Cisco up to that point if ( at that time ) China was n't buying much of Cisco 's stuff and Cisco was n't manufacturing in China either ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How had China been very good to Cisco up to that point if (at that time) China wasn't buying much of Cisco's stuff and Cisco wasn't manufacturing in China either?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057706</id>
	<title>Blame Algor</title>
	<author>NemoinSpace</author>
	<datestamp>1265562000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>FTFA - In recent years, some security experts have begun to see counterfeiting as a growing threat to the nation's network infrastructure.</p></div></blockquote><p>So let me get this straight - it's <b>Ebay</b> that is to blame for nations internet structure, Not Al Gore and certainly not the sysadmin that just installed a shiny bargain basement <b>Dink</b> switch at the NAP?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>FTFA - In recent years , some security experts have begun to see counterfeiting as a growing threat to the nation 's network infrastructure.So let me get this straight - it 's Ebay that is to blame for nations internet structure , Not Al Gore and certainly not the sysadmin that just installed a shiny bargain basement Dink switch at the NAP ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FTFA - In recent years, some security experts have begun to see counterfeiting as a growing threat to the nation's network infrastructure.So let me get this straight - it's Ebay that is to blame for nations internet structure, Not Al Gore and certainly not the sysadmin that just installed a shiny bargain basement Dink switch at the NAP?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057350</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>fluffy99</author>
	<datestamp>1265558520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And if the quality is sub-par they're going to be complaining about crappy Cisco hardware when it's not Cisco's fault, affecting their brand image.</p></div><p>All true.  Do you know if Cisco is honoring warranties on the counterfeits.  Surely when you call in a TAC case, they know from the serial number if it's legitimate or not.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And if the quality is sub-par they 're going to be complaining about crappy Cisco hardware when it 's not Cisco 's fault , affecting their brand image.All true .
Do you know if Cisco is honoring warranties on the counterfeits .
Surely when you call in a TAC case , they know from the serial number if it 's legitimate or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And if the quality is sub-par they're going to be complaining about crappy Cisco hardware when it's not Cisco's fault, affecting their brand image.All true.
Do you know if Cisco is honoring warranties on the counterfeits.
Surely when you call in a TAC case, they know from the serial number if it's legitimate or not.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056868</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056772</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265552820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1:$s/editors/monkeys/g</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 : $ s/editors/monkeys/g</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1:$s/editors/monkeys/g</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057298</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265558160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who can I sue for the counterfit RSS feed?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who can I sue for the counterfit RSS feed ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who can I sue for the counterfit RSS feed?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31057518</id>
	<title>Re:Signals little for Google et. al.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265560320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>China does not give a rat's ass about getting strict with counterfeits. They only do what has MONEY in it for them. Follow the money trail.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>China does not give a rat 's ass about getting strict with counterfeits .
They only do what has MONEY in it for them .
Follow the money trail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>China does not give a rat's ass about getting strict with counterfeits.
They only do what has MONEY in it for them.
Follow the money trail.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056688</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31059322</id>
	<title>Re:Excuse me, editors?</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1265629380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>FFS! If kdawson thought the boss said months, he'd have been gone for 30 of them!<br> <br>It's infectious! Stay away! Unclean!</htmltext>
<tokenext>FFS !
If kdawson thought the boss said months , he 'd have been gone for 30 of them !
It 's infectious !
Stay away !
Unclean !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FFS!
If kdawson thought the boss said months, he'd have been gone for 30 of them!
It's infectious!
Stay away!
Unclean!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056750</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31058614</id>
	<title>Re:What constitutes "fake" hardware?</title>
	<author>fast turtle</author>
	<datestamp>1265572560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.</p></div><p>That's actually a better solution then the damn ROHs compliant crap that's being used. No end of problems from Tin Whiskers causing shorts and failures. Hell I think the ROHs issue was dreamed up just to ensure the damn hardware would fail in less time then it used to. Engineered Obsolescence so people have to replace it more frequently (Buy Buy Buy) is the name of the game nowday instead of selling a quality product that will last for 10 years.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.That 's actually a better solution then the damn ROHs compliant crap that 's being used .
No end of problems from Tin Whiskers causing shorts and failures .
Hell I think the ROHs issue was dreamed up just to ensure the damn hardware would fail in less time then it used to .
Engineered Obsolescence so people have to replace it more frequently ( Buy Buy Buy ) is the name of the game nowday instead of selling a quality product that will last for 10 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cheap lead-based solder could be used with the RoHS label.That's actually a better solution then the damn ROHs compliant crap that's being used.
No end of problems from Tin Whiskers causing shorts and failures.
Hell I think the ROHs issue was dreamed up just to ensure the damn hardware would fail in less time then it used to.
Engineered Obsolescence so people have to replace it more frequently (Buy Buy Buy) is the name of the game nowday instead of selling a quality product that will last for 10 years.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_07_210226.31056868</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_02_07_210226_23</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_02_07_210226_42</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_02_07_210226_16</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_02_07_210226_44</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_02_07_210226_4</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_02_07_210226_20</id>
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