<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_04_1322246</id>
	<title>"Vegetative State" Patients Can Communicate</title>
	<author>samzenpus</author>
	<datestamp>1265299140000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Kittenman writes <i>"The BBC is carrying a story about researchers in the UK and Belgium who can detect the thinking processes within a patient previously thought to be in a vegetative state.  The researchers ask the patient verbally to think in certain ways to indicate a 'yes', in other ways to indicate a 'no' &mdash; and <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8497148.stm">have successfully communicated with 4 out of 23 patients</a> previously thought to be in a coma."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kittenman writes " The BBC is carrying a story about researchers in the UK and Belgium who can detect the thinking processes within a patient previously thought to be in a vegetative state .
The researchers ask the patient verbally to think in certain ways to indicate a 'yes ' , in other ways to indicate a 'no '    and have successfully communicated with 4 out of 23 patients previously thought to be in a coma .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kittenman writes "The BBC is carrying a story about researchers in the UK and Belgium who can detect the thinking processes within a patient previously thought to be in a vegetative state.
The researchers ask the patient verbally to think in certain ways to indicate a 'yes', in other ways to indicate a 'no' — and have successfully communicated with 4 out of 23 patients previously thought to be in a coma.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025432</id>
	<title>I can't wait to try this...</title>
	<author>gestalt\_n\_pepper</author>
	<datestamp>1265313840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On some of my more sluggish co-workers</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On some of my more sluggish co-workers</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On some of my more sluggish co-workers</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023718</id>
	<title>Locked-in syndrome, a skeptic's take:</title>
	<author>assert(0)</author>
	<datestamp>1265305680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try:</p><p><a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3122" title="sciencebasedmedicine.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3122</a> [sciencebasedmedicine.org]</p><p>for a critical point of view.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try : http : //www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ ? p = 3122 [ sciencebasedmedicine.org ] for a critical point of view .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try:http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3122 [sciencebasedmedicine.org]for a critical point of view.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023552</id>
	<title>book and movie "Johnny get your gun"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265304900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The book was about a WWI soldier who lost all four limbs, blind, deaf, and mute, yet still awake. The medical people thought his twitching was just instinct.
Then someone realizes his head banging is Morse code.
The story is from the patient's perspective.
It resurfaces as an ant-war book periodically.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The book was about a WWI soldier who lost all four limbs , blind , deaf , and mute , yet still awake .
The medical people thought his twitching was just instinct .
Then someone realizes his head banging is Morse code .
The story is from the patient 's perspective .
It resurfaces as an ant-war book periodically .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The book was about a WWI soldier who lost all four limbs, blind, deaf, and mute, yet still awake.
The medical people thought his twitching was just instinct.
Then someone realizes his head banging is Morse code.
The story is from the patient's perspective.
It resurfaces as an ant-war book periodically.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31031718</id>
	<title>Re:Euthanasia</title>
	<author>SoupIsGoodFood\_42</author>
	<datestamp>1265309940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>There is nothing on the other side. You simply cease to exist, and it's as if you had never existed. All your consciousness is gone.</i></p><p>Assuming that is true is as irrational as assuming the opposite.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is nothing on the other side .
You simply cease to exist , and it 's as if you had never existed .
All your consciousness is gone.Assuming that is true is as irrational as assuming the opposite .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is nothing on the other side.
You simply cease to exist, and it's as if you had never existed.
All your consciousness is gone.Assuming that is true is as irrational as assuming the opposite.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023340</id>
	<title>Re:4 out of 23?</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1265303820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're only sending out 23 surveys you need to take a remedial statistics course. And actually an almost 25\% return rate is very good for any survey. Most folks are lucky to get a 10\% return.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're only sending out 23 surveys you need to take a remedial statistics course .
And actually an almost 25 \ % return rate is very good for any survey .
Most folks are lucky to get a 10 \ % return .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're only sending out 23 surveys you need to take a remedial statistics course.
And actually an almost 25\% return rate is very good for any survey.
Most folks are lucky to get a 10\% return.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023806</id>
	<title>Re:4 out of 23?</title>
	<author>twiddlingbits</author>
	<datestamp>1265306220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>IIRC, 30 is considered the threshold amount of data samples  to be comsidered statistically valid for a normal population. Lower than that allows results to quickly skewed by only 1 or 2 data points. One other point that was drummed home in Graduate Stats class was that many doctors don't know statistics and those that do many times cherry pick patients and/or filter the data so its skwed to the desirable result. In other words they are not impartial and let the data say what the results are for many reasons (money is #1) . In a case like this, everyone wants a good result to help these people but I'm afraid given the sample size and emotional component (and the fact no one has validated the study) leads me to say this is more marketing for more funding versus reporting a real breakthru in the treatment of such patients.</htmltext>
<tokenext>IIRC , 30 is considered the threshold amount of data samples to be comsidered statistically valid for a normal population .
Lower than that allows results to quickly skewed by only 1 or 2 data points .
One other point that was drummed home in Graduate Stats class was that many doctors do n't know statistics and those that do many times cherry pick patients and/or filter the data so its skwed to the desirable result .
In other words they are not impartial and let the data say what the results are for many reasons ( money is # 1 ) .
In a case like this , everyone wants a good result to help these people but I 'm afraid given the sample size and emotional component ( and the fact no one has validated the study ) leads me to say this is more marketing for more funding versus reporting a real breakthru in the treatment of such patients .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IIRC, 30 is considered the threshold amount of data samples  to be comsidered statistically valid for a normal population.
Lower than that allows results to quickly skewed by only 1 or 2 data points.
One other point that was drummed home in Graduate Stats class was that many doctors don't know statistics and those that do many times cherry pick patients and/or filter the data so its skwed to the desirable result.
In other words they are not impartial and let the data say what the results are for many reasons (money is #1) .
In a case like this, everyone wants a good result to help these people but I'm afraid given the sample size and emotional component (and the fact no one has validated the study) leads me to say this is more marketing for more funding versus reporting a real breakthru in the treatment of such patients.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023122</id>
	<title>So do plants...</title>
	<author>viraltus</author>
	<datestamp>1265302980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I always talk to them<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I always talk to them : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I always talk to them :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025790</id>
	<title>Re:Take a closer look</title>
	<author>Goalie\_Ca</author>
	<datestamp>1265316240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well.. first consider the nature of "consciousness". Our brains are still running but really at what point are we no longer human and merely a broken machine. There is no magical spot in the brain that represents our spirit, it is really the sum of a giant network of "dumb" neurons firing off based on stimulus and response. Undamaged neurons will continue to work dumbly and independently as always despite the brain being damaged to the point the person no longer exists.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well.. first consider the nature of " consciousness " .
Our brains are still running but really at what point are we no longer human and merely a broken machine .
There is no magical spot in the brain that represents our spirit , it is really the sum of a giant network of " dumb " neurons firing off based on stimulus and response .
Undamaged neurons will continue to work dumbly and independently as always despite the brain being damaged to the point the person no longer exists .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well.. first consider the nature of "consciousness".
Our brains are still running but really at what point are we no longer human and merely a broken machine.
There is no magical spot in the brain that represents our spirit, it is really the sum of a giant network of "dumb" neurons firing off based on stimulus and response.
Undamaged neurons will continue to work dumbly and independently as always despite the brain being damaged to the point the person no longer exists.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023310</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025952</id>
	<title>Re:Euthanasia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265317020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>There is nothing on the other side. You simply cease to exist, and it's as if you had never existed. All your consciousness is gone.</p></div></blockquote><p>If you believe this, then what's the difference if you're here for a couple more years or not?</p><p>If there's nothing but oblivion, then you might well have never existed.  Oblivion isn't some old folk's home where you can reflect on your life.  Your thoughts, memories, experiences: *poof* gone.  Whatever contributions you've made to the world will be forgotten in short-order, and history has shown everyone will be forgotten COMPLETELY in time.</p><p>So what's the point of it all?  40 years, 60 years, what does it matter, when you're just running out the clock until everything about you are is obliterated.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is nothing on the other side .
You simply cease to exist , and it 's as if you had never existed .
All your consciousness is gone.If you believe this , then what 's the difference if you 're here for a couple more years or not ? If there 's nothing but oblivion , then you might well have never existed .
Oblivion is n't some old folk 's home where you can reflect on your life .
Your thoughts , memories , experiences : * poof * gone .
Whatever contributions you 've made to the world will be forgotten in short-order , and history has shown everyone will be forgotten COMPLETELY in time.So what 's the point of it all ?
40 years , 60 years , what does it matter , when you 're just running out the clock until everything about you are is obliterated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is nothing on the other side.
You simply cease to exist, and it's as if you had never existed.
All your consciousness is gone.If you believe this, then what's the difference if you're here for a couple more years or not?If there's nothing but oblivion, then you might well have never existed.
Oblivion isn't some old folk's home where you can reflect on your life.
Your thoughts, memories, experiences: *poof* gone.
Whatever contributions you've made to the world will be forgotten in short-order, and history has shown everyone will be forgotten COMPLETELY in time.So what's the point of it all?
40 years, 60 years, what does it matter, when you're just running out the clock until everything about you are is obliterated.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024090</id>
	<title>can this be used to communicate with zombies?</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1265307540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it might be a useful technique during a zombie apocalypse, to broker some sort of peaceful agreement rather than BRAIIIIIIIINSSSSSSSS</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it might be a useful technique during a zombie apocalypse , to broker some sort of peaceful agreement rather than BRAIIIIIIIINSSSSSSSS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it might be a useful technique during a zombie apocalypse, to broker some sort of peaceful agreement rather than BRAIIIIIIIINSSSSSSSS</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31026058</id>
	<title>Re:book and movie "Johnny get your gun"</title>
	<author>ChrisMounce</author>
	<datestamp>1265274180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What worries me is that all the false positives will make doctors think all positives are false positives. It may not happen often, but this is evidence that it's happened before.<br><br>You can't assume every apparently-nonresponsive patient is a dead salmon.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What worries me is that all the false positives will make doctors think all positives are false positives .
It may not happen often , but this is evidence that it 's happened before.You ca n't assume every apparently-nonresponsive patient is a dead salmon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What worries me is that all the false positives will make doctors think all positives are false positives.
It may not happen often, but this is evidence that it's happened before.You can't assume every apparently-nonresponsive patient is a dead salmon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024208</id>
	<title>Facilitated /. posting</title>
	<author>Quiet\_Desperation</author>
	<datestamp>1265308080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm in a vegetative state right now.</p><p>Yeah, I know... "tell us something we don't know"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in a vegetative state right now.Yeah , I know... " tell us something we do n't know "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in a vegetative state right now.Yeah, I know... "tell us something we don't know"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31026406</id>
	<title>Re:Euthanasia</title>
	<author>StikyPad</author>
	<datestamp>1265275560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>history has shown everyone will be forgotten COMPLETELY in time.</i></p><p>No, history has shown that everyone who existed before *recorded* history will be mostly forgotten (though still investigated if their remains are discovered).  The advent of stone carvings changed most of that -- there's no longer any guarantee that you'll *ever* be forgotten.  At least as long as there's some sentient being out there to discover or learn about you.</p><p>At the same time, someone needn't be remembered personally in order for their influence to continue.  Nobody remembers who invented the wheel, or decided to cook food, but the influence of those people remains.  These are some of the more concrete examples, but we're all the products of our ancestors, both physically and philosophically.  That we don't remember exactly who did what and when doesn't make it any less true.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>history has shown everyone will be forgotten COMPLETELY in time.No , history has shown that everyone who existed before * recorded * history will be mostly forgotten ( though still investigated if their remains are discovered ) .
The advent of stone carvings changed most of that -- there 's no longer any guarantee that you 'll * ever * be forgotten .
At least as long as there 's some sentient being out there to discover or learn about you.At the same time , someone need n't be remembered personally in order for their influence to continue .
Nobody remembers who invented the wheel , or decided to cook food , but the influence of those people remains .
These are some of the more concrete examples , but we 're all the products of our ancestors , both physically and philosophically .
That we do n't remember exactly who did what and when does n't make it any less true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>history has shown everyone will be forgotten COMPLETELY in time.No, history has shown that everyone who existed before *recorded* history will be mostly forgotten (though still investigated if their remains are discovered).
The advent of stone carvings changed most of that -- there's no longer any guarantee that you'll *ever* be forgotten.
At least as long as there's some sentient being out there to discover or learn about you.At the same time, someone needn't be remembered personally in order for their influence to continue.
Nobody remembers who invented the wheel, or decided to cook food, but the influence of those people remains.
These are some of the more concrete examples, but we're all the products of our ancestors, both physically and philosophically.
That we don't remember exactly who did what and when doesn't make it any less true.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025952</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024020</id>
	<title>Re: Coma, not in a hollywood way.</title>
	<author>Black Parrot</author>
	<datestamp>1265307180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This is not really surprising if you are aware what a real coma is. There is a lot of states between fully consciousness and complete unconsciousness. In movies, and in soaps you switch between those states in a surprise wake-up. In reality this is much more complex.</p></div><p>FWIW, there was a nice article for non-experts about this in <i>Scientific American</i> a couple of years ago.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is not really surprising if you are aware what a real coma is .
There is a lot of states between fully consciousness and complete unconsciousness .
In movies , and in soaps you switch between those states in a surprise wake-up .
In reality this is much more complex.FWIW , there was a nice article for non-experts about this in Scientific American a couple of years ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is not really surprising if you are aware what a real coma is.
There is a lot of states between fully consciousness and complete unconsciousness.
In movies, and in soaps you switch between those states in a surprise wake-up.
In reality this is much more complex.FWIW, there was a nice article for non-experts about this in Scientific American a couple of years ago.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023252</id>
	<title>Euthanasia</title>
	<author>Thiez</author>
	<datestamp>1265303460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; It does raise many ethical issues - for example - it is lawful to allow patients in a permanent vegetative state to die by withdrawing all treatment, but if a patient showed they could respond it would not be, even if they made it clear that was what they wanted.</p><p>It seems kinda silly that you're only allowed to die when you're unable to make that decision. To me it seems cruel to keep someone alive in a vegetative state just because they have enough of their conciousness left to want to end it. Yay for legalized euthanasia in the Netherlands.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; It does raise many ethical issues - for example - it is lawful to allow patients in a permanent vegetative state to die by withdrawing all treatment , but if a patient showed they could respond it would not be , even if they made it clear that was what they wanted.It seems kinda silly that you 're only allowed to die when you 're unable to make that decision .
To me it seems cruel to keep someone alive in a vegetative state just because they have enough of their conciousness left to want to end it .
Yay for legalized euthanasia in the Netherlands .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; It does raise many ethical issues - for example - it is lawful to allow patients in a permanent vegetative state to die by withdrawing all treatment, but if a patient showed they could respond it would not be, even if they made it clear that was what they wanted.It seems kinda silly that you're only allowed to die when you're unable to make that decision.
To me it seems cruel to keep someone alive in a vegetative state just because they have enough of their conciousness left to want to end it.
Yay for legalized euthanasia in the Netherlands.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025688</id>
	<title>Here's a thought....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265315520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can see lots of support of this for keeping the person alive at all costs but what happens if you ask them if they want to be allowed to die and they respond "yes". How many of those same supporters would now support allowing the person to die because that's what they wanted?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can see lots of support of this for keeping the person alive at all costs but what happens if you ask them if they want to be allowed to die and they respond " yes " .
How many of those same supporters would now support allowing the person to die because that 's what they wanted ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can see lots of support of this for keeping the person alive at all costs but what happens if you ask them if they want to be allowed to die and they respond "yes".
How many of those same supporters would now support allowing the person to die because that's what they wanted?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025650</id>
	<title>Don't underestimate the dead salmon!</title>
	<author>drainbramage</author>
	<datestamp>1265315220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also, they are tasty.<br>You put 2 and 2 together.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , they are tasty.You put 2 and 2 together .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, they are tasty.You put 2 and 2 together.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023516</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023702</id>
	<title>Re:Euthanasia</title>
	<author>MrNemesis</author>
	<datestamp>1265305620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hopefully this'll be available outside of the UK but this is Terry Pratchett giving a lecture on his Alzheimers and legalised euthanasia from a few days ago: <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qmfgn" title="bbc.co.uk">http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qmfgn</a> [bbc.co.uk]. Guardian article covering the same subject here <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/feb/02/terry-pratchett-assisted-suicide-tribunal" title="guardian.co.uk">http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/feb/02/terry-pratchett-assisted-suicide-tribunal</a> [guardian.co.uk]</p><p>Pratchett has done alot to provoke intelligent debate on assisted suicide and related matters, thankfully without much in the way of people shouting him down - I'm a firm believer that one should be able to put a "Please kill me nicely" card in their wallet/will, in the same way that people use donor cards to say "Yep, why the hell not use my liver as I'm not really in a position to care about it any more". Lying on a bed in a hospital for the last five years of my life, forgotten by and an embarrassment to my friends and family is my idea of hell.</p><p>Note that I don't know anyone who's been in a coma or a PVS but I know for damn sure that the person and the flesh and blood they used to live in aren't the same thing.</p><p><a href="http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/opponents-of-assisted-suicide-still-convinced-it's-any-of-their-business-201002012428/" title="thedailymash.co.uk">http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/opponents-of-assisted-suicide-still-convinced-it's-any-of-their-business-201002012428/</a> [thedailymash.co.uk]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hopefully this 'll be available outside of the UK but this is Terry Pratchett giving a lecture on his Alzheimers and legalised euthanasia from a few days ago : http : //www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qmfgn [ bbc.co.uk ] .
Guardian article covering the same subject here http : //www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/feb/02/terry-pratchett-assisted-suicide-tribunal [ guardian.co.uk ] Pratchett has done alot to provoke intelligent debate on assisted suicide and related matters , thankfully without much in the way of people shouting him down - I 'm a firm believer that one should be able to put a " Please kill me nicely " card in their wallet/will , in the same way that people use donor cards to say " Yep , why the hell not use my liver as I 'm not really in a position to care about it any more " .
Lying on a bed in a hospital for the last five years of my life , forgotten by and an embarrassment to my friends and family is my idea of hell.Note that I do n't know anyone who 's been in a coma or a PVS but I know for damn sure that the person and the flesh and blood they used to live in are n't the same thing.http : //www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/opponents-of-assisted-suicide-still-convinced-it 's-any-of-their-business-201002012428/ [ thedailymash.co.uk ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hopefully this'll be available outside of the UK but this is Terry Pratchett giving a lecture on his Alzheimers and legalised euthanasia from a few days ago: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qmfgn [bbc.co.uk].
Guardian article covering the same subject here http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/feb/02/terry-pratchett-assisted-suicide-tribunal [guardian.co.uk]Pratchett has done alot to provoke intelligent debate on assisted suicide and related matters, thankfully without much in the way of people shouting him down - I'm a firm believer that one should be able to put a "Please kill me nicely" card in their wallet/will, in the same way that people use donor cards to say "Yep, why the hell not use my liver as I'm not really in a position to care about it any more".
Lying on a bed in a hospital for the last five years of my life, forgotten by and an embarrassment to my friends and family is my idea of hell.Note that I don't know anyone who's been in a coma or a PVS but I know for damn sure that the person and the flesh and blood they used to live in aren't the same thing.http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/opponents-of-assisted-suicide-still-convinced-it's-any-of-their-business-201002012428/ [thedailymash.co.uk]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023252</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023214</id>
	<title>False Positive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265303280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm not a neuroscientist, but it seems to me that 4 out of 23 is a pretty low success rate, especially given the kind of indirection the researchers were resorting to in order to elicit the signals they were looking for. How do we know, for example, that a patient doesn't have some kind of spurious activity in the brain area they're using to signal "A"? For that matter, how can we distinguish between "no answer" and a deliberate "B" in the absence of such activity? How can we assume that the patient, who by definition has brain damage, is capable of understanding the question correctly and answering correctly? I agree, this is better than absolutely no communication, but I'm curious how they intend to control for factors like these.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not a neuroscientist , but it seems to me that 4 out of 23 is a pretty low success rate , especially given the kind of indirection the researchers were resorting to in order to elicit the signals they were looking for .
How do we know , for example , that a patient does n't have some kind of spurious activity in the brain area they 're using to signal " A " ?
For that matter , how can we distinguish between " no answer " and a deliberate " B " in the absence of such activity ?
How can we assume that the patient , who by definition has brain damage , is capable of understanding the question correctly and answering correctly ?
I agree , this is better than absolutely no communication , but I 'm curious how they intend to control for factors like these .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not a neuroscientist, but it seems to me that 4 out of 23 is a pretty low success rate, especially given the kind of indirection the researchers were resorting to in order to elicit the signals they were looking for.
How do we know, for example, that a patient doesn't have some kind of spurious activity in the brain area they're using to signal "A"?
For that matter, how can we distinguish between "no answer" and a deliberate "B" in the absence of such activity?
How can we assume that the patient, who by definition has brain damage, is capable of understanding the question correctly and answering correctly?
I agree, this is better than absolutely no communication, but I'm curious how they intend to control for factors like these.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023516</id>
	<title>fMRI is not perfect</title>
	<author>bitslinger\_42</author>
	<datestamp>1265304720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you haven't check out <a href="http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/09/fmrisalmon/" title="wired.com">this study</a> [wired.com] publicized in Wired, where they detected human emotion activity in the brain of a salmon.  A dead salmon.</p><p>Just because the fMRI shows some colors, that doesn't necessarily mean that there's really cognition going on.  It could just be false detections from imperfect scanning, or it could be scientists seeing patterns in data that don't really exist, or it could be the result of our imperfect understanding of how the brain works, or a whole slew of other things.</p><p>This is made worse by things like the <a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2838" title="sciencebasedmedicine.org">Houben case</a> [sciencebasedmedicine.org], which used Facilitated Communication to "prove" that Houben had an intact consciousness.  FC hasn't passed any rigorous scientific study (i.e. blind tests to prevent the facilitator's motivations/desires from modifying the results), but stories like Houben cause those with loved ones with sever brain damage in PVS to start clamoring that there may still be hope.  <a href="http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/783-this-cruel-farce-has-to-stop.html" title="randi.org">James Randi has written about FC</a> [randi.org], and the Houben case in particular.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have n't check out this study [ wired.com ] publicized in Wired , where they detected human emotion activity in the brain of a salmon .
A dead salmon.Just because the fMRI shows some colors , that does n't necessarily mean that there 's really cognition going on .
It could just be false detections from imperfect scanning , or it could be scientists seeing patterns in data that do n't really exist , or it could be the result of our imperfect understanding of how the brain works , or a whole slew of other things.This is made worse by things like the Houben case [ sciencebasedmedicine.org ] , which used Facilitated Communication to " prove " that Houben had an intact consciousness .
FC has n't passed any rigorous scientific study ( i.e .
blind tests to prevent the facilitator 's motivations/desires from modifying the results ) , but stories like Houben cause those with loved ones with sever brain damage in PVS to start clamoring that there may still be hope .
James Randi has written about FC [ randi.org ] , and the Houben case in particular .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you haven't check out this study [wired.com] publicized in Wired, where they detected human emotion activity in the brain of a salmon.
A dead salmon.Just because the fMRI shows some colors, that doesn't necessarily mean that there's really cognition going on.
It could just be false detections from imperfect scanning, or it could be scientists seeing patterns in data that don't really exist, or it could be the result of our imperfect understanding of how the brain works, or a whole slew of other things.This is made worse by things like the Houben case [sciencebasedmedicine.org], which used Facilitated Communication to "prove" that Houben had an intact consciousness.
FC hasn't passed any rigorous scientific study (i.e.
blind tests to prevent the facilitator's motivations/desires from modifying the results), but stories like Houben cause those with loved ones with sever brain damage in PVS to start clamoring that there may still be hope.
James Randi has written about FC [randi.org], and the Houben case in particular.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023838</id>
	<title>Re:Euthanasia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265306400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who cares what the patient thinks... damn if your mother was in a vegetable state on life support in your living room, wouldn't it be fun to experiment? Like developing brainwave sensors, measuring pain reactions and biological deterioration, why not do a open cranial surgery and see what goes on inside... Fun fun fun!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who cares what the patient thinks... damn if your mother was in a vegetable state on life support in your living room , would n't it be fun to experiment ?
Like developing brainwave sensors , measuring pain reactions and biological deterioration , why not do a open cranial surgery and see what goes on inside... Fun fun fun !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who cares what the patient thinks... damn if your mother was in a vegetable state on life support in your living room, wouldn't it be fun to experiment?
Like developing brainwave sensors, measuring pain reactions and biological deterioration, why not do a open cranial surgery and see what goes on inside... Fun fun fun!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023252</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024886</id>
	<title>Hell thats nothing! Europe is behind as always!</title>
	<author>Phizzle</author>
	<datestamp>1265311080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><b>Here in US we took it to the next level and got people in vegetative state running the freaking country</b></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in US we took it to the next level and got people in vegetative state running the freaking country</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in US we took it to the next level and got people in vegetative state running the freaking country</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024124</id>
	<title>Burista's</title>
	<author>StillNeedMoreCoffee</author>
	<datestamp>1265307720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Starbuck's Staff have been doing this for years in the mornings with customers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Starbuck 's Staff have been doing this for years in the mornings with customers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Starbuck's Staff have been doing this for years in the mornings with customers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31027206</id>
	<title>Life time of communication</title>
	<author>hesaigo999ca</author>
	<datestamp>1265278860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So when a patient now knows in his incoherent state that he is actually in a coma,<br>and can communicate with others, then does that mean he can still be held at his word....<br>Salesman&gt;I thought you said we had a deal<br>Vegetable&gt;.....yes<br>Salesman&gt;So we did have a deal, or you admit to not keeping the deal<br>Vegetable&gt;.....no<br>Salesman&gt;Stop playing with me, I might have to hurt you....<br>Vegetable&gt;.....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So when a patient now knows in his incoherent state that he is actually in a coma,and can communicate with others , then does that mean he can still be held at his word....Salesman &gt; I thought you said we had a dealVegetable &gt; .....yesSalesman &gt; So we did have a deal , or you admit to not keeping the dealVegetable &gt; .....noSalesman &gt; Stop playing with me , I might have to hurt you....Vegetable &gt; .... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So when a patient now knows in his incoherent state that he is actually in a coma,and can communicate with others, then does that mean he can still be held at his word....Salesman&gt;I thought you said we had a dealVegetable&gt;.....yesSalesman&gt;So we did have a deal, or you admit to not keeping the dealVegetable&gt;.....noSalesman&gt;Stop playing with me, I might have to hurt you....Vegetable&gt;.....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31028002</id>
	<title>Re:book and movie "Johnny get your gun"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265283060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's "Johnny Got His Gun".</p><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny\_Got\_His\_Gun</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's " Johnny Got His Gun " .http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny \ _Got \ _His \ _Gun</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's "Johnny Got His Gun".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny\_Got\_His\_Gun</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024450</id>
	<title>Re:Euthanasia</title>
	<author>Wiarumas</author>
	<datestamp>1265308980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The bad thing about this study is it gives false hope that vegetable-state people are actually capable of being less vegetable-like and more human-like by "communicating."  The good news is maybe they can work towards asking the yes/no question of gaining permission to let die to avoid the legal mumbo jumbo.  Since this communication is happening on a more subconscious level than actual logistical thinking, I'm wondering if the mind is capable of choosing "yes" to let me die or does the brain default to a "no" in a primal/instinctual process?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The bad thing about this study is it gives false hope that vegetable-state people are actually capable of being less vegetable-like and more human-like by " communicating .
" The good news is maybe they can work towards asking the yes/no question of gaining permission to let die to avoid the legal mumbo jumbo .
Since this communication is happening on a more subconscious level than actual logistical thinking , I 'm wondering if the mind is capable of choosing " yes " to let me die or does the brain default to a " no " in a primal/instinctual process ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The bad thing about this study is it gives false hope that vegetable-state people are actually capable of being less vegetable-like and more human-like by "communicating.
"  The good news is maybe they can work towards asking the yes/no question of gaining permission to let die to avoid the legal mumbo jumbo.
Since this communication is happening on a more subconscious level than actual logistical thinking, I'm wondering if the mind is capable of choosing "yes" to let me die or does the brain default to a "no" in a primal/instinctual process?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023252</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024182</id>
	<title>Bigger picture implications</title>
	<author>swb</author>
	<datestamp>1265307960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What are the bigger picture implications of this?</p><p>Will this result in family members/religious zealots demanding that patients in these kinds of states keep receiving ongoing medical care and not have the plug pulled, despite the infinitesimally small chances that they will wake up under the justification that they are "still alive"?</p><p>Does this mean we'll spend more money on essentially lost causes and/or keep pushing healthcare costs higher and thus deny meaningful services to people who aren't vegetative?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What are the bigger picture implications of this ? Will this result in family members/religious zealots demanding that patients in these kinds of states keep receiving ongoing medical care and not have the plug pulled , despite the infinitesimally small chances that they will wake up under the justification that they are " still alive " ? Does this mean we 'll spend more money on essentially lost causes and/or keep pushing healthcare costs higher and thus deny meaningful services to people who are n't vegetative ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What are the bigger picture implications of this?Will this result in family members/religious zealots demanding that patients in these kinds of states keep receiving ongoing medical care and not have the plug pulled, despite the infinitesimally small chances that they will wake up under the justification that they are "still alive"?Does this mean we'll spend more money on essentially lost causes and/or keep pushing healthcare costs higher and thus deny meaningful services to people who aren't vegetative?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31036706</id>
	<title>Science:</title>
	<author>spacemky</author>
	<datestamp>1265395680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Vegetative State" Plants Can Communicate"</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Vegetative State " Plants Can Communicate "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Vegetative State" Plants Can Communicate"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025936</id>
	<title>Curious but not significant</title>
	<author>KharmaWidow</author>
	<datestamp>1265316900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While they may be able to get binary type responses from these patients we have no idea whether the answers are made in sound judgment.</p><p>For example, if we were to ask one of these patients, "Should we pull the plug?" We have no idea if their reasoning capabilities are impaired by whatever caused them to enter this state. Would they be suicidal if they understood their current state, or would they be 'drunk" by their cocktail of drugs and have a lack of inhibition? Or would they be emotionally terrified of death and want to cling to life regardless of the possibility of recovery? Or would their answers be child like in simply want to please the person asking the questions? I don't think we will ever know...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While they may be able to get binary type responses from these patients we have no idea whether the answers are made in sound judgment.For example , if we were to ask one of these patients , " Should we pull the plug ?
" We have no idea if their reasoning capabilities are impaired by whatever caused them to enter this state .
Would they be suicidal if they understood their current state , or would they be 'drunk " by their cocktail of drugs and have a lack of inhibition ?
Or would they be emotionally terrified of death and want to cling to life regardless of the possibility of recovery ?
Or would their answers be child like in simply want to please the person asking the questions ?
I do n't think we will ever know.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While they may be able to get binary type responses from these patients we have no idea whether the answers are made in sound judgment.For example, if we were to ask one of these patients, "Should we pull the plug?
" We have no idea if their reasoning capabilities are impaired by whatever caused them to enter this state.
Would they be suicidal if they understood their current state, or would they be 'drunk" by their cocktail of drugs and have a lack of inhibition?
Or would they be emotionally terrified of death and want to cling to life regardless of the possibility of recovery?
Or would their answers be child like in simply want to please the person asking the questions?
I don't think we will ever know...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023250</id>
	<title>Bad Headline as always</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265303460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This has been plastered all over the news.  The problem is, its similar to the Headline "Gas pedals can suddenly accelerate the car".  Surely, some are misdiagnosed, while others have no brain to think with.  Its ridiculous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This has been plastered all over the news .
The problem is , its similar to the Headline " Gas pedals can suddenly accelerate the car " .
Surely , some are misdiagnosed , while others have no brain to think with .
Its ridiculous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has been plastered all over the news.
The problem is, its similar to the Headline "Gas pedals can suddenly accelerate the car".
Surely, some are misdiagnosed, while others have no brain to think with.
Its ridiculous.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023264</id>
	<title>Like a House episode?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265303520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isn't this like that House episode with the completely paralysed patient? At first he could only blink, but then that ability disappeared. He kept having visions where House and himself would appear on the beach and stuff. He was a black man as I recall. Anyway, they hooked him up to a brain-reading device which moved a cursor on a screen to indicate Yes or No (top and bottom halves of the screen).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't this like that House episode with the completely paralysed patient ?
At first he could only blink , but then that ability disappeared .
He kept having visions where House and himself would appear on the beach and stuff .
He was a black man as I recall .
Anyway , they hooked him up to a brain-reading device which moved a cursor on a screen to indicate Yes or No ( top and bottom halves of the screen ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't this like that House episode with the completely paralysed patient?
At first he could only blink, but then that ability disappeared.
He kept having visions where House and himself would appear on the beach and stuff.
He was a black man as I recall.
Anyway, they hooked him up to a brain-reading device which moved a cursor on a screen to indicate Yes or No (top and bottom halves of the screen).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31028234</id>
	<title>Re:It's not that big of a deal...</title>
	<author>repka</author>
	<datestamp>1265284320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's interesting how for a model of vegetative man's head in TFA's video they used a wooden texture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's interesting how for a model of vegetative man 's head in TFA 's video they used a wooden texture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's interesting how for a model of vegetative man's head in TFA's video they used a wooden texture.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023118</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024398</id>
	<title>Re:False Positive</title>
	<author>kaputtfurleben</author>
	<datestamp>1265308800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have no idea why this comment is modded up. If he had read the article his question would have been answered.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have no idea why this comment is modded up .
If he had read the article his question would have been answered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have no idea why this comment is modded up.
If he had read the article his question would have been answered.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023214</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31027572</id>
	<title>The Menagerie</title>
	<author>kattphud</author>
	<datestamp>1265280960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Am I the only one who sees the parallel to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Menagerie\_(Star\_Trek:\_The\_Original\_Series)" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">The Menagerie</a> [wikipedia.org]?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Am I the only one who sees the parallel to The Menagerie [ wikipedia.org ] ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Am I the only one who sees the parallel to The Menagerie [wikipedia.org]?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023192</id>
	<title>4 out of 23?</title>
	<author>lymond01</author>
	<datestamp>1265303220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>have successfully communicated with 4 out of 23 patients previously thought to be in a coma.</i></p><p>That's actually a better return than I get on security surveys sent to faculty...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>have successfully communicated with 4 out of 23 patients previously thought to be in a coma.That 's actually a better return than I get on security surveys sent to faculty.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>have successfully communicated with 4 out of 23 patients previously thought to be in a coma.That's actually a better return than I get on security surveys sent to faculty...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023992</id>
	<title>Re:Vegetative patients say</title>
	<author>Archangel Michael</author>
	<datestamp>1265307060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Soylent Green is PEOPLE!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Soylent Green is PEOPLE !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Soylent Green is PEOPLE!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025268</id>
	<title>And most said</title>
	<author>ThatsNotPudding</author>
	<datestamp>1265312940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Get me away from these charlatans!"</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Get me away from these charlatans !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Get me away from these charlatans!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31029914</id>
	<title>Re:Euthanasia</title>
	<author>FrankieBaby1986</author>
	<datestamp>1265294400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Loneliness, for one. We are social creatures by nature. Boredom for another. After a few weeks, I'm sure there isn't much left to think about. Besides, you'll never get to share anything wonderful you do think up. Finally, one of the worst things I could imagine is to feel completely useless and unproductive all the time. What's the point in living if you can't contribute to society in some form?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Loneliness , for one .
We are social creatures by nature .
Boredom for another .
After a few weeks , I 'm sure there is n't much left to think about .
Besides , you 'll never get to share anything wonderful you do think up .
Finally , one of the worst things I could imagine is to feel completely useless and unproductive all the time .
What 's the point in living if you ca n't contribute to society in some form ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Loneliness, for one.
We are social creatures by nature.
Boredom for another.
After a few weeks, I'm sure there isn't much left to think about.
Besides, you'll never get to share anything wonderful you do think up.
Finally, one of the worst things I could imagine is to feel completely useless and unproductive all the time.
What's the point in living if you can't contribute to society in some form?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31032172</id>
	<title>Re:Wait. What?</title>
	<author>grumbel</author>
	<datestamp>1265402760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Depends, if they can clearly distinguish between "Yes", "No" and "Patient didn't respond", their rate of success might be ok. On the other side if they just did go with "Yes" and "No" it indeed looks like random chance. After all we got the thinking dead salmon, so there is quite a bit of wiggle room in fMRI.</p><p>In the end the only real proof would be if they could actually get real communication going, not just six questions, which really seems a little low. So lets wait and see for further studies before jumping to conclusions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Depends , if they can clearly distinguish between " Yes " , " No " and " Patient did n't respond " , their rate of success might be ok. On the other side if they just did go with " Yes " and " No " it indeed looks like random chance .
After all we got the thinking dead salmon , so there is quite a bit of wiggle room in fMRI.In the end the only real proof would be if they could actually get real communication going , not just six questions , which really seems a little low .
So lets wait and see for further studies before jumping to conclusions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Depends, if they can clearly distinguish between "Yes", "No" and "Patient didn't respond", their rate of success might be ok. On the other side if they just did go with "Yes" and "No" it indeed looks like random chance.
After all we got the thinking dead salmon, so there is quite a bit of wiggle room in fMRI.In the end the only real proof would be if they could actually get real communication going, not just six questions, which really seems a little low.
So lets wait and see for further studies before jumping to conclusions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024326</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023304</id>
	<title>Cal me skeptical...</title>
	<author>MaXintosh</author>
	<datestamp>1265303700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>On one hand, this would be very scary, if one were locked in like that, unable to speak, move, and thought to be in a vegetative state. TFA does a great job drumming up that fear in the readers.<br> <br>On the other hand, <a href="http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/09/fmrisalmon/" title="wired.com">fMRI studies also find dead salmon do a lot of thinking</a> [wired.com]. The whole fMRI field suffers from what we'll generously call "Statistical Issues," and until we get better handle on it, I'm going to remain somewhat dubious about fMRI studies that claim to be able to detect this or that. 4/27 is not a stellar rate, and it isn't implausible that these 4 are really vegetative people who have various parts of their brains active as a matter of course.</htmltext>
<tokenext>On one hand , this would be very scary , if one were locked in like that , unable to speak , move , and thought to be in a vegetative state .
TFA does a great job drumming up that fear in the readers .
On the other hand , fMRI studies also find dead salmon do a lot of thinking [ wired.com ] .
The whole fMRI field suffers from what we 'll generously call " Statistical Issues , " and until we get better handle on it , I 'm going to remain somewhat dubious about fMRI studies that claim to be able to detect this or that .
4/27 is not a stellar rate , and it is n't implausible that these 4 are really vegetative people who have various parts of their brains active as a matter of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On one hand, this would be very scary, if one were locked in like that, unable to speak, move, and thought to be in a vegetative state.
TFA does a great job drumming up that fear in the readers.
On the other hand, fMRI studies also find dead salmon do a lot of thinking [wired.com].
The whole fMRI field suffers from what we'll generously call "Statistical Issues," and until we get better handle on it, I'm going to remain somewhat dubious about fMRI studies that claim to be able to detect this or that.
4/27 is not a stellar rate, and it isn't implausible that these 4 are really vegetative people who have various parts of their brains active as a matter of course.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31028452</id>
	<title>Re:False Positive</title>
	<author>holmstar</author>
	<datestamp>1265285580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ask the same question multiple times.  Including the negative of the question.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ask the same question multiple times .
Including the negative of the question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ask the same question multiple times.
Including the negative of the question.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023214</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31028020</id>
	<title>Worst Day of My Life</title>
	<author>blinkin357</author>
	<datestamp>1265283120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The worst day of my life was the one when I told the doctor to shut off life support on my wife and watching the heart monitor with skipping heartbeats until it was flatlined.  It would have been good to know if she knew that we were there talking to her.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The worst day of my life was the one when I told the doctor to shut off life support on my wife and watching the heart monitor with skipping heartbeats until it was flatlined .
It would have been good to know if she knew that we were there talking to her .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The worst day of my life was the one when I told the doctor to shut off life support on my wife and watching the heart monitor with skipping heartbeats until it was flatlined.
It would have been good to know if she knew that we were there talking to her.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025590</id>
	<title>Uh oh</title>
	<author>Dunbal</author>
	<datestamp>1265314680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>and have successfully communicated with 4 out of 23 patients previously thought to be in a coma.</i></p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 17\%. Well, let's look at it another way. Being a physician and remembering my rounds on the neurology/neurosurgery wards, I remember very well how antagonistic family members feel towards medical staff - as if the persistent condition of these patients was somehow our fault. I do remember many family members being in denial - refusing to accept that when we told them a patient was unlikely to recover due to the nature of the injury, and continuing to clutch at the invisible straw that grandma or grandpa would suddenly "wake up" (hey it happens in the movies and on TV) and walk out of the hospital.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Doctors have to feel compassion. It's an important hallmark of our profession. I was very upset myself when this happened to my (late) grandfather. However there are some injuries that can never be recovered from. The fact that a "yes" or "no" pattern MRI can be detected (again, in only 17\% of cases) still will not change the prognosis for the patient. Perhaps the greatest use for this technique would be to obtain consent from the patient for disconnecting life support.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; However I can see the mentioned article being used by family members to beg for (or take legal action to obtain) continued life support. That's all very well when you're paying for it. However in my country with a state-run health care system, there comes the time when we need the limited number of beds and the machines for someone else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and have successfully communicated with 4 out of 23 patients previously thought to be in a coma .
      17 \ % .
Well , let 's look at it another way .
Being a physician and remembering my rounds on the neurology/neurosurgery wards , I remember very well how antagonistic family members feel towards medical staff - as if the persistent condition of these patients was somehow our fault .
I do remember many family members being in denial - refusing to accept that when we told them a patient was unlikely to recover due to the nature of the injury , and continuing to clutch at the invisible straw that grandma or grandpa would suddenly " wake up " ( hey it happens in the movies and on TV ) and walk out of the hospital .
      Doctors have to feel compassion .
It 's an important hallmark of our profession .
I was very upset myself when this happened to my ( late ) grandfather .
However there are some injuries that can never be recovered from .
The fact that a " yes " or " no " pattern MRI can be detected ( again , in only 17 \ % of cases ) still will not change the prognosis for the patient .
Perhaps the greatest use for this technique would be to obtain consent from the patient for disconnecting life support .
      However I can see the mentioned article being used by family members to beg for ( or take legal action to obtain ) continued life support .
That 's all very well when you 're paying for it .
However in my country with a state-run health care system , there comes the time when we need the limited number of beds and the machines for someone else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and have successfully communicated with 4 out of 23 patients previously thought to be in a coma.
      17\%.
Well, let's look at it another way.
Being a physician and remembering my rounds on the neurology/neurosurgery wards, I remember very well how antagonistic family members feel towards medical staff - as if the persistent condition of these patients was somehow our fault.
I do remember many family members being in denial - refusing to accept that when we told them a patient was unlikely to recover due to the nature of the injury, and continuing to clutch at the invisible straw that grandma or grandpa would suddenly "wake up" (hey it happens in the movies and on TV) and walk out of the hospital.
      Doctors have to feel compassion.
It's an important hallmark of our profession.
I was very upset myself when this happened to my (late) grandfather.
However there are some injuries that can never be recovered from.
The fact that a "yes" or "no" pattern MRI can be detected (again, in only 17\% of cases) still will not change the prognosis for the patient.
Perhaps the greatest use for this technique would be to obtain consent from the patient for disconnecting life support.
      However I can see the mentioned article being used by family members to beg for (or take legal action to obtain) continued life support.
That's all very well when you're paying for it.
However in my country with a state-run health care system, there comes the time when we need the limited number of beds and the machines for someone else.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023118</id>
	<title>It's not that big of a deal...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265302980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Us vegetative types have been doing that for years on World of Warcraft.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Us vegetative types have been doing that for years on World of Warcraft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Us vegetative types have been doing that for years on World of Warcraft.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023956</id>
	<title>Re:fMRI is not perfect</title>
	<author>ZuchinniOne</author>
	<datestamp>1265306940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are correct and there are a lot of bad fMRI studies out there.  However the statistical analysis used in this study did not suffer from the same kinds of errors used in the dead salmon paper and other work.</p><p>The current study a whole host of problems that are unrelated to the fMRI methodology, which basically makes this a study about a single piece of good data in a mountain of useless data.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are correct and there are a lot of bad fMRI studies out there .
However the statistical analysis used in this study did not suffer from the same kinds of errors used in the dead salmon paper and other work.The current study a whole host of problems that are unrelated to the fMRI methodology , which basically makes this a study about a single piece of good data in a mountain of useless data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are correct and there are a lot of bad fMRI studies out there.
However the statistical analysis used in this study did not suffer from the same kinds of errors used in the dead salmon paper and other work.The current study a whole host of problems that are unrelated to the fMRI methodology, which basically makes this a study about a single piece of good data in a mountain of useless data.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023516</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31028048</id>
	<title>43\% rate of communication out of 60 = 25.8 people?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265283300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"She said the hospital did a study of 60 patients admitted with a diagnosis of vegetative state and 43\% could communicate. "</p><p>How can you have 43\% communication rate out of 60 patients? That would mean 0.43 * 60 = 25.8 patients?</p><p>So one could not communicate fully? How do you judge that?</p><p>Seems like someone is throwing percent around for the fun of spewing statistics</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" She said the hospital did a study of 60 patients admitted with a diagnosis of vegetative state and 43 \ % could communicate .
" How can you have 43 \ % communication rate out of 60 patients ?
That would mean 0.43 * 60 = 25.8 patients ? So one could not communicate fully ?
How do you judge that ? Seems like someone is throwing percent around for the fun of spewing statistics</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"She said the hospital did a study of 60 patients admitted with a diagnosis of vegetative state and 43\% could communicate.
"How can you have 43\% communication rate out of 60 patients?
That would mean 0.43 * 60 = 25.8 patients?So one could not communicate fully?
How do you judge that?Seems like someone is throwing percent around for the fun of spewing statistics</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31027290</id>
	<title>not in that state.</title>
	<author>luther349</author>
	<datestamp>1265279280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>speaking from personal experience. when my grandfather was in this state. being a vegetable means theirs no to very little brain activity a brain dead state. at that point you are dead. they can keep your body alive with machine but even that wont last very long but if you not religious the siance is if the brains dead your very dead theirs no coming back. cases of people waking up are simply misdignosed. there not brain dead but in coma in that state something has shut down your ability to be consuous but your brain is still working.and in most cases whatever damage that has happen heals and you wake up. the brains one tough orgen.</htmltext>
<tokenext>speaking from personal experience .
when my grandfather was in this state .
being a vegetable means theirs no to very little brain activity a brain dead state .
at that point you are dead .
they can keep your body alive with machine but even that wont last very long but if you not religious the siance is if the brains dead your very dead theirs no coming back .
cases of people waking up are simply misdignosed .
there not brain dead but in coma in that state something has shut down your ability to be consuous but your brain is still working.and in most cases whatever damage that has happen heals and you wake up .
the brains one tough orgen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>speaking from personal experience.
when my grandfather was in this state.
being a vegetable means theirs no to very little brain activity a brain dead state.
at that point you are dead.
they can keep your body alive with machine but even that wont last very long but if you not religious the siance is if the brains dead your very dead theirs no coming back.
cases of people waking up are simply misdignosed.
there not brain dead but in coma in that state something has shut down your ability to be consuous but your brain is still working.and in most cases whatever damage that has happen heals and you wake up.
the brains one tough orgen.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023208</id>
	<title>Captain Christopher Pike!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265303280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>that is all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>that is all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that is all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023262</id>
	<title>Vegetative patients say</title>
	<author>codewarren</author>
	<datestamp>1265303520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Eat me, I'm nutritious."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Eat me , I 'm nutritious .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Eat me, I'm nutritious.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023920</id>
	<title>One beep for yes</title>
	<author>chaynlynk</author>
	<datestamp>1265306820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Two beeps for stop bothering me, I'm sleeping!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Two beeps for stop bothering me , I 'm sleeping !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Two beeps for stop bothering me, I'm sleeping!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023870</id>
	<title>What if Steven Hawking finally slipped away?</title>
	<author>paiute</author>
	<datestamp>1265306520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One day I thought, "What if one day Steven Hawking had the most blinding insightful revelation anyone has ever had, but it was just after all his muscle control was lost?"</p><p>So I wrote this. (Disclaimer: No physicists were actually harmed in the writing of this play.)</p><p><a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/19550880/GUT-The-Grand-Unified-Theory-A-oneact-play-with-seven-blackouts" title="scribd.com">http://www.scribd.com/doc/19550880/GUT-The-Grand-Unified-Theory-A-oneact-play-with-seven-blackouts</a> [scribd.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One day I thought , " What if one day Steven Hawking had the most blinding insightful revelation anyone has ever had , but it was just after all his muscle control was lost ?
" So I wrote this .
( Disclaimer : No physicists were actually harmed in the writing of this play .
) http : //www.scribd.com/doc/19550880/GUT-The-Grand-Unified-Theory-A-oneact-play-with-seven-blackouts [ scribd.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One day I thought, "What if one day Steven Hawking had the most blinding insightful revelation anyone has ever had, but it was just after all his muscle control was lost?
"So I wrote this.
(Disclaimer: No physicists were actually harmed in the writing of this play.
)http://www.scribd.com/doc/19550880/GUT-The-Grand-Unified-Theory-A-oneact-play-with-seven-blackouts [scribd.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023898</id>
	<title>Re:4 out of 23?</title>
	<author>daenris</author>
	<datestamp>1265306700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>OP never said there were only 23 surveys sent out, he just said that 4 out of 23 was a better return rate.  Maybe there were 230 surveys sent out and less than 40 were returned, just as an example.  Also, just over 17\% isn't really "almost 25\%."</htmltext>
<tokenext>OP never said there were only 23 surveys sent out , he just said that 4 out of 23 was a better return rate .
Maybe there were 230 surveys sent out and less than 40 were returned , just as an example .
Also , just over 17 \ % is n't really " almost 25 \ % .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OP never said there were only 23 surveys sent out, he just said that 4 out of 23 was a better return rate.
Maybe there were 230 surveys sent out and less than 40 were returned, just as an example.
Also, just over 17\% isn't really "almost 25\%.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025014</id>
	<title>Re:They asked true/false questions while monitorin</title>
	<author>arose</author>
	<datestamp>1265311680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did they also ask if his father's name was Bob, John, Edvard and Vader? Getting a series of yes/no questions right is much easier then getting a series of related yes/no questions right.</p><p>Alexander: yes. Bob: no. John: no. Edvard: yes. Vader: no. Hmm...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did they also ask if his father 's name was Bob , John , Edvard and Vader ?
Getting a series of yes/no questions right is much easier then getting a series of related yes/no questions right.Alexander : yes .
Bob : no .
John : no .
Edvard : yes .
Vader : no .
Hmm.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did they also ask if his father's name was Bob, John, Edvard and Vader?
Getting a series of yes/no questions right is much easier then getting a series of related yes/no questions right.Alexander: yes.
Bob: no.
John: no.
Edvard: yes.
Vader: no.
Hmm...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024026</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024142</id>
	<title>I'm not an expert, but...</title>
	<author>paxcoder</author>
	<datestamp>1265307840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think our understanding of the brain is primitive, and we still can't say anything for certain. But now you see how bad "euthanasia" is, or at least how evil it is to promote it based on statistics or (even educated) opinions without certainty.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think our understanding of the brain is primitive , and we still ca n't say anything for certain .
But now you see how bad " euthanasia " is , or at least how evil it is to promote it based on statistics or ( even educated ) opinions without certainty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think our understanding of the brain is primitive, and we still can't say anything for certain.
But now you see how bad "euthanasia" is, or at least how evil it is to promote it based on statistics or (even educated) opinions without certainty.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024026</id>
	<title>They asked true/false questions while monitoring</title>
	<author>davide marney</author>
	<datestamp>1265307240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>With one patient - a Belgian man injured in a traffic accident seven years ago - they asked a series of questions.</p><p>He was able to communicate "yes" and "no" using just his thoughts.</p><p>The team told him to use "motor" imagery like a tennis match to indicate "yes" and "spatial" imagery like thinking about roaming the streets for a "no".</p><p>The patient responded accurately to five out of six autobiographical questions posed by the scientists.</p><p>For example, he confirmed that his father's name was Alexander.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>With one patient - a Belgian man injured in a traffic accident seven years ago - they asked a series of questions.He was able to communicate " yes " and " no " using just his thoughts.The team told him to use " motor " imagery like a tennis match to indicate " yes " and " spatial " imagery like thinking about roaming the streets for a " no " .The patient responded accurately to five out of six autobiographical questions posed by the scientists.For example , he confirmed that his father 's name was Alexander .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With one patient - a Belgian man injured in a traffic accident seven years ago - they asked a series of questions.He was able to communicate "yes" and "no" using just his thoughts.The team told him to use "motor" imagery like a tennis match to indicate "yes" and "spatial" imagery like thinking about roaming the streets for a "no".The patient responded accurately to five out of six autobiographical questions posed by the scientists.For example, he confirmed that his father's name was Alexander.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023214</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024684</id>
	<title>Wrong technique?</title>
	<author>DynaSoar</author>
	<datestamp>1265310120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We recently had an article on just this subject, using MEG. Comparing the time frame of an fMRI scan and the duration of the response it's supposed to be looking at, it is quite likely the fMRI is catching many more neural processes even within the same region than the response related to the stimulus.</p><p>In fact, I'm thinking it's likely BBC made an error (or worse). TFA starts out with the same phrase as the MEG article, "a new brain scan technique". Then it specifies fMRI and says it was used because it "shows brain activity in real time", which it most certainly does not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We recently had an article on just this subject , using MEG .
Comparing the time frame of an fMRI scan and the duration of the response it 's supposed to be looking at , it is quite likely the fMRI is catching many more neural processes even within the same region than the response related to the stimulus.In fact , I 'm thinking it 's likely BBC made an error ( or worse ) .
TFA starts out with the same phrase as the MEG article , " a new brain scan technique " .
Then it specifies fMRI and says it was used because it " shows brain activity in real time " , which it most certainly does not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We recently had an article on just this subject, using MEG.
Comparing the time frame of an fMRI scan and the duration of the response it's supposed to be looking at, it is quite likely the fMRI is catching many more neural processes even within the same region than the response related to the stimulus.In fact, I'm thinking it's likely BBC made an error (or worse).
TFA starts out with the same phrase as the MEG article, "a new brain scan technique".
Then it specifies fMRI and says it was used because it "shows brain activity in real time", which it most certainly does not.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023130</id>
	<title>Summary wrong: Not a coma!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265302980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From TFA:</p><p>"Patients in a vegetative state are awake, not in a coma, but have no awareness because of severe brain damage. "</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From TFA : " Patients in a vegetative state are awake , not in a coma , but have no awareness because of severe brain damage .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From TFA:"Patients in a vegetative state are awake, not in a coma, but have no awareness because of severe brain damage.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024326</id>
	<title>Wait.  What?</title>
	<author>Logical Zebra</author>
	<datestamp>1265308620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...have successfully communicated with 4 out of 23 patients previously thought to be in a coma.</p></div><p>So let me get this straight.  They're asking the patient to "think" a certain way for <em>yes</em> and a different way for <em>no</em>.  They have achieved success with 4/23 patients, for a rate of 17.3\%.  In other words, their "system" is not only worse than a coin toss (50\% success rate), it is less than half as successful as a coin toss.</p><p>Am I missing something here?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...have successfully communicated with 4 out of 23 patients previously thought to be in a coma.So let me get this straight .
They 're asking the patient to " think " a certain way for yes and a different way for no .
They have achieved success with 4/23 patients , for a rate of 17.3 \ % .
In other words , their " system " is not only worse than a coin toss ( 50 \ % success rate ) , it is less than half as successful as a coin toss.Am I missing something here ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...have successfully communicated with 4 out of 23 patients previously thought to be in a coma.So let me get this straight.
They're asking the patient to "think" a certain way for yes and a different way for no.
They have achieved success with 4/23 patients, for a rate of 17.3\%.
In other words, their "system" is not only worse than a coin toss (50\% success rate), it is less than half as successful as a coin toss.Am I missing something here?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023116</id>
	<title>Horrible news</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265302920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a life-long vegetarian, I'm horrified with the idea of being able to communicate with my... oh wait.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a life-long vegetarian , I 'm horrified with the idea of being able to communicate with my... oh wait .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a life-long vegetarian, I'm horrified with the idea of being able to communicate with my... oh wait.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023270</id>
	<title>Not just for dead salmon anymore!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265303580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In case anybody missed this the first time:  http://prefrontal.org/blog/2009/09/the-story-behind-the-atlantic-salmon/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In case anybody missed this the first time : http : //prefrontal.org/blog/2009/09/the-story-behind-the-atlantic-salmon/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In case anybody missed this the first time:  http://prefrontal.org/blog/2009/09/the-story-behind-the-atlantic-salmon/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024016</id>
	<title>Republican ... Democrat</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265307180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think this may explain a lot !</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think this may explain a lot !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think this may explain a lot !</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025332</id>
	<title>One yes/no question they will not ask</title>
	<author>NotQuiteReal</author>
	<datestamp>1265313360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Would you like us to euthanize you?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Would you like us to euthanize you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would you like us to euthanize you?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024906</id>
	<title>Re:False Positive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265311200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>the probability of random readings matching up with the correct answers to a series of such questions seems very minute.</p></div></blockquote><p>How so?  Getting 5 out of 6 coin flips right is just about 10\%.  They tested a number of people.  Seems like random chance is a likely explanation.  I think the fMRI part of this study is bogus.  Good for them catching those with wrong diagnosis, but fMRI is still being misused by people who don't understand statistics.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the probability of random readings matching up with the correct answers to a series of such questions seems very minute.How so ?
Getting 5 out of 6 coin flips right is just about 10 \ % .
They tested a number of people .
Seems like random chance is a likely explanation .
I think the fMRI part of this study is bogus .
Good for them catching those with wrong diagnosis , but fMRI is still being misused by people who do n't understand statistics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the probability of random readings matching up with the correct answers to a series of such questions seems very minute.How so?
Getting 5 out of 6 coin flips right is just about 10\%.
They tested a number of people.
Seems like random chance is a likely explanation.
I think the fMRI part of this study is bogus.
Good for them catching those with wrong diagnosis, but fMRI is still being misused by people who don't understand statistics.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023496</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31026644</id>
	<title>Re:Euthanasia</title>
	<author>TheLuggage2008</author>
	<datestamp>1265276520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I've actually never understood this attitude about wanting to end everything. Yeah, granted, life would suck compared to what it could have been, but on the other hand, if you die, you are GONE FOREVER. There is nothing on the other side. You simply cease to exist, and it's as if you had never existed. All your consciousness is gone.</p><p>I can see wanting to check out if you're in constant pain and will never recover, but if you have your thoughts, you can at least think and have some hope of someday recovering. And if you can hear, you can occasionally get news of the outside world.</p><p>I would want to stick around just to see what happens.</p></div><p>I can understand not wanting to hang around. For anyone that thinks that they can occupy themselves with just their thoughts for months or years on end, try lying perfectly still for a few hours, no moving if you're uncomfortable, no scratching that itch, etc. If you're equal to that challenge, next try doing it for an entire weekend. Maybe it's just me, but about 10 minutes into that and I'd be ready to pack it in.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've actually never understood this attitude about wanting to end everything .
Yeah , granted , life would suck compared to what it could have been , but on the other hand , if you die , you are GONE FOREVER .
There is nothing on the other side .
You simply cease to exist , and it 's as if you had never existed .
All your consciousness is gone.I can see wanting to check out if you 're in constant pain and will never recover , but if you have your thoughts , you can at least think and have some hope of someday recovering .
And if you can hear , you can occasionally get news of the outside world.I would want to stick around just to see what happens.I can understand not wanting to hang around .
For anyone that thinks that they can occupy themselves with just their thoughts for months or years on end , try lying perfectly still for a few hours , no moving if you 're uncomfortable , no scratching that itch , etc .
If you 're equal to that challenge , next try doing it for an entire weekend .
Maybe it 's just me , but about 10 minutes into that and I 'd be ready to pack it in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've actually never understood this attitude about wanting to end everything.
Yeah, granted, life would suck compared to what it could have been, but on the other hand, if you die, you are GONE FOREVER.
There is nothing on the other side.
You simply cease to exist, and it's as if you had never existed.
All your consciousness is gone.I can see wanting to check out if you're in constant pain and will never recover, but if you have your thoughts, you can at least think and have some hope of someday recovering.
And if you can hear, you can occasionally get news of the outside world.I would want to stick around just to see what happens.I can understand not wanting to hang around.
For anyone that thinks that they can occupy themselves with just their thoughts for months or years on end, try lying perfectly still for a few hours, no moving if you're uncomfortable, no scratching that itch, etc.
If you're equal to that challenge, next try doing it for an entire weekend.
Maybe it's just me, but about 10 minutes into that and I'd be ready to pack it in.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023222</id>
	<title>Coma, not in a hollywood way.</title>
	<author>leuk\_he</author>
	<datestamp>1265303340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is not really surprising if you are aware what a real coma is. There is a lot of states between fully consciousness and complete unconsciousness. In movies, and in soaps you switch between those states in a surprise wake-up. In reality this is much more complex.</p><p>Anyway, better diagnosis is needed to prevent accidents like <a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-27083\_3-10403861-247.html" title="cnet.com" rel="nofollow">Brain scan finds man was not in a coma--23 years later</a> [cnet.com] and other possible improvements in brain damage treatment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is not really surprising if you are aware what a real coma is .
There is a lot of states between fully consciousness and complete unconsciousness .
In movies , and in soaps you switch between those states in a surprise wake-up .
In reality this is much more complex.Anyway , better diagnosis is needed to prevent accidents like Brain scan finds man was not in a coma--23 years later [ cnet.com ] and other possible improvements in brain damage treatment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is not really surprising if you are aware what a real coma is.
There is a lot of states between fully consciousness and complete unconsciousness.
In movies, and in soaps you switch between those states in a surprise wake-up.
In reality this is much more complex.Anyway, better diagnosis is needed to prevent accidents like Brain scan finds man was not in a coma--23 years later [cnet.com] and other possible improvements in brain damage treatment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023522</id>
	<title>Re:4 out of 23?</title>
	<author>delinear</author>
	<datestamp>1265304720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wonder though if they chose patients who had a higher chance of responding to the measurement. I haven't RTFA (hey, this is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.) so I don't know if this is even possible, if statistically they can say patients who entered their current state due to a particular type of accident or illness have shown the best chance of eventually responding to stimuli so we'll try patients in this group first, or if it was just totally random. If it was the former, that might conceivably skew the results more favourably - I was similarly surprised at how high this was.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder though if they chose patients who had a higher chance of responding to the measurement .
I have n't RTFA ( hey , this is / .
) so I do n't know if this is even possible , if statistically they can say patients who entered their current state due to a particular type of accident or illness have shown the best chance of eventually responding to stimuli so we 'll try patients in this group first , or if it was just totally random .
If it was the former , that might conceivably skew the results more favourably - I was similarly surprised at how high this was .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder though if they chose patients who had a higher chance of responding to the measurement.
I haven't RTFA (hey, this is /.
) so I don't know if this is even possible, if statistically they can say patients who entered their current state due to a particular type of accident or illness have shown the best chance of eventually responding to stimuli so we'll try patients in this group first, or if it was just totally random.
If it was the former, that might conceivably skew the results more favourably - I was similarly surprised at how high this was.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023568</id>
	<title>Curious Choice of Tasks</title>
	<author>smitty777</author>
	<datestamp>1265304960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FTA: <i>The team told him to use "motor" imagery like a tennis match to indicate "yes" and "spatial" imagery like thinking about roaming the streets for a "no".</i> <br>
&nbsp; <br>I've done a little bit of research in the area of spatial vs motor visualization. I think they could have chosen a better discriminator for the "spatial" task - it could be that the physical act of "wandering the streets" could be confounded with "playing tennis".   There are many more tasks that I believe would have tapped into a more pure measure of the spatial component (e.g., imagine rotating an object).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FTA : The team told him to use " motor " imagery like a tennis match to indicate " yes " and " spatial " imagery like thinking about roaming the streets for a " no " .
  I 've done a little bit of research in the area of spatial vs motor visualization .
I think they could have chosen a better discriminator for the " spatial " task - it could be that the physical act of " wandering the streets " could be confounded with " playing tennis " .
There are many more tasks that I believe would have tapped into a more pure measure of the spatial component ( e.g. , imagine rotating an object ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FTA: The team told him to use "motor" imagery like a tennis match to indicate "yes" and "spatial" imagery like thinking about roaming the streets for a "no".
  I've done a little bit of research in the area of spatial vs motor visualization.
I think they could have chosen a better discriminator for the "spatial" task - it could be that the physical act of "wandering the streets" could be confounded with "playing tennis".
There are many more tasks that I believe would have tapped into a more pure measure of the spatial component (e.g., imagine rotating an object).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023672</id>
	<title>Come on, Dr Brewer...</title>
	<author>Joel Rowbottom</author>
	<datestamp>1265305440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>prot's been telling us that for years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>prot 's been telling us that for years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>prot's been telling us that for years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024958</id>
	<title>Re:False Positive</title>
	<author>arose</author>
	<datestamp>1265311440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did the people who interpreted the data know the correct answers to the questions? Where they in the room when the questions where asked? Where they told the questions at all?</p><p>The answer to all of the above better be 'no'. And just how general where these questions?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did the people who interpreted the data know the correct answers to the questions ?
Where they in the room when the questions where asked ?
Where they told the questions at all ? The answer to all of the above better be 'no' .
And just how general where these questions ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did the people who interpreted the data know the correct answers to the questions?
Where they in the room when the questions where asked?
Where they told the questions at all?The answer to all of the above better be 'no'.
And just how general where these questions?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023496</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025214</id>
	<title>Re:Take a closer look</title>
	<author>b4dc0d3r</author>
	<datestamp>1265312580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>2 out of 51 sounds like a worse-than-chance result, but I think you're misinterpreting.  We are not looking for whether 2/51 is above or below statistical significance.</p><p>The state of those initial 51 was presumed to be the same.  Research has shown there is a variation among them, such that they are not all in the same state.  We are not discussing the effectiveness of this method to determine awareness of known vegetative patients, which 2/51 would be a terrible result and possibly chance.</p><p>What you're looking for is the statistical error of each of those 2 people - what is the potential error of each finding, and could each be determined by chance?  In other words, maybe 46 people could show 100\% certainty of no awareness, 3 showed whatever, I didn't read that part closely, and 2 showed 100\% certainty of awareness.  That is a possibility, but like you I haven't seen the estimated error on each individual diagnosis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>2 out of 51 sounds like a worse-than-chance result , but I think you 're misinterpreting .
We are not looking for whether 2/51 is above or below statistical significance.The state of those initial 51 was presumed to be the same .
Research has shown there is a variation among them , such that they are not all in the same state .
We are not discussing the effectiveness of this method to determine awareness of known vegetative patients , which 2/51 would be a terrible result and possibly chance.What you 're looking for is the statistical error of each of those 2 people - what is the potential error of each finding , and could each be determined by chance ?
In other words , maybe 46 people could show 100 \ % certainty of no awareness , 3 showed whatever , I did n't read that part closely , and 2 showed 100 \ % certainty of awareness .
That is a possibility , but like you I have n't seen the estimated error on each individual diagnosis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>2 out of 51 sounds like a worse-than-chance result, but I think you're misinterpreting.
We are not looking for whether 2/51 is above or below statistical significance.The state of those initial 51 was presumed to be the same.
Research has shown there is a variation among them, such that they are not all in the same state.
We are not discussing the effectiveness of this method to determine awareness of known vegetative patients, which 2/51 would be a terrible result and possibly chance.What you're looking for is the statistical error of each of those 2 people - what is the potential error of each finding, and could each be determined by chance?
In other words, maybe 46 people could show 100\% certainty of no awareness, 3 showed whatever, I didn't read that part closely, and 2 showed 100\% certainty of awareness.
That is a possibility, but like you I haven't seen the estimated error on each individual diagnosis.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023310</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31030584</id>
	<title>In other news...</title>
	<author>Baloo Uriza</author>
	<datestamp>1265300640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...Ouija boards really do work.</p><p> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best\_Friends\_Forever" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">You say "Kenny", but I say "tomato".</a> [wikipedia.org]  If they're in a vegetative state, they're not answering questions, they're just responding to surrounding stimuli, like plants bending towards a sunny window.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...Ouija boards really do work .
You say " Kenny " , but I say " tomato " .
[ wikipedia.org ] If they 're in a vegetative state , they 're not answering questions , they 're just responding to surrounding stimuli , like plants bending towards a sunny window .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...Ouija boards really do work.
You say "Kenny", but I say "tomato".
[wikipedia.org]  If they're in a vegetative state, they're not answering questions, they're just responding to surrounding stimuli, like plants bending towards a sunny window.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024024</id>
	<title>Correction: SOME</title>
	<author>192939495969798999</author>
	<datestamp>1265307180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some patients, appearing to be in a vegetative state, are in fact capable of a form of communication.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some patients , appearing to be in a vegetative state , are in fact capable of a form of communication .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some patients, appearing to be in a vegetative state, are in fact capable of a form of communication.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023310</id>
	<title>Take a closer look</title>
	<author>ZuchinniOne</author>
	<datestamp>1265303700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>5 of 54 patients who underwent this procedure.  Showed a possible response.</p><p>3 of those 5 it turned out showed awareness to normal stimuli and were either mislabeled by doctors, or their condition changed.</p><p>So basically that leaves 2 patients out of 51 seeming to "be able to modulate their brain activity".  And only ONE of those was able to "correctly answer 5 of 6 yes/no questions"</p><p>This could be legit, but there is also PLENTY of room for statistical chance to have created this "result".</p><p>The bottom line is that too much of a big deal is being made out of a tiny kernel of good data in a mountain of null results.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>5 of 54 patients who underwent this procedure .
Showed a possible response.3 of those 5 it turned out showed awareness to normal stimuli and were either mislabeled by doctors , or their condition changed.So basically that leaves 2 patients out of 51 seeming to " be able to modulate their brain activity " .
And only ONE of those was able to " correctly answer 5 of 6 yes/no questions " This could be legit , but there is also PLENTY of room for statistical chance to have created this " result " .The bottom line is that too much of a big deal is being made out of a tiny kernel of good data in a mountain of null results .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>5 of 54 patients who underwent this procedure.
Showed a possible response.3 of those 5 it turned out showed awareness to normal stimuli and were either mislabeled by doctors, or their condition changed.So basically that leaves 2 patients out of 51 seeming to "be able to modulate their brain activity".
And only ONE of those was able to "correctly answer 5 of 6 yes/no questions"This could be legit, but there is also PLENTY of room for statistical chance to have created this "result".The bottom line is that too much of a big deal is being made out of a tiny kernel of good data in a mountain of null results.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024384</id>
	<title>Re:It's not that big of a deal...</title>
	<author>chappers1</author>
	<datestamp>1265308800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>According to TFA, the subject is asked to imagine a game of Tennis whilst being scanned. Sounds more like Pong than WoW.

Probably so people that have been in a vegetative state since the 70's will know what to do.</htmltext>
<tokenext>According to TFA , the subject is asked to imagine a game of Tennis whilst being scanned .
Sounds more like Pong than WoW .
Probably so people that have been in a vegetative state since the 70 's will know what to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to TFA, the subject is asked to imagine a game of Tennis whilst being scanned.
Sounds more like Pong than WoW.
Probably so people that have been in a vegetative state since the 70's will know what to do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023118</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023338</id>
	<title>Re:False Positive</title>
	<author>Thiez</author>
	<datestamp>1265303820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; How can we assume that the patient, who by definition has brain damage, is capable of understanding the question correctly and answering correctly?</p><p>That one seems rather easy, you ask them many questions and see how many of the answers make any sense. If a large part of them make sense, it is a reasonable to conclude the patient understood and was able to answer. Of course this would disqualify patients who are able to understand the question but unable to answer, and those who would be able to answer but cannot understand the question, and those who drift in and out of conciousness...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; How can we assume that the patient , who by definition has brain damage , is capable of understanding the question correctly and answering correctly ? That one seems rather easy , you ask them many questions and see how many of the answers make any sense .
If a large part of them make sense , it is a reasonable to conclude the patient understood and was able to answer .
Of course this would disqualify patients who are able to understand the question but unable to answer , and those who would be able to answer but can not understand the question , and those who drift in and out of conciousness.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; How can we assume that the patient, who by definition has brain damage, is capable of understanding the question correctly and answering correctly?That one seems rather easy, you ask them many questions and see how many of the answers make any sense.
If a large part of them make sense, it is a reasonable to conclude the patient understood and was able to answer.
Of course this would disqualify patients who are able to understand the question but unable to answer, and those who would be able to answer but cannot understand the question, and those who drift in and out of conciousness...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023214</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025040</id>
	<title>Re:Euthanasia</title>
	<author>Reality Master 101</author>
	<datestamp>1265311800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've actually never understood this attitude about wanting to end everything. Yeah, granted, life would suck compared to what it could have been, but on the other hand, if you die, you are GONE FOREVER. There is nothing on the other side. You simply cease to exist, and it's as if you had never existed. All your consciousness is gone.</p><p>I can see wanting to check out if you're in constant pain and will never recover, but if you have your thoughts, you can at least think and have some hope of someday recovering. And if you can hear, you can occasionally get news of the outside world.</p><p>I would want to stick around just to see what happens.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've actually never understood this attitude about wanting to end everything .
Yeah , granted , life would suck compared to what it could have been , but on the other hand , if you die , you are GONE FOREVER .
There is nothing on the other side .
You simply cease to exist , and it 's as if you had never existed .
All your consciousness is gone.I can see wanting to check out if you 're in constant pain and will never recover , but if you have your thoughts , you can at least think and have some hope of someday recovering .
And if you can hear , you can occasionally get news of the outside world.I would want to stick around just to see what happens .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've actually never understood this attitude about wanting to end everything.
Yeah, granted, life would suck compared to what it could have been, but on the other hand, if you die, you are GONE FOREVER.
There is nothing on the other side.
You simply cease to exist, and it's as if you had never existed.
All your consciousness is gone.I can see wanting to check out if you're in constant pain and will never recover, but if you have your thoughts, you can at least think and have some hope of someday recovering.
And if you can hear, you can occasionally get news of the outside world.I would want to stick around just to see what happens.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023252</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024728</id>
	<title>In (un?) related news...</title>
	<author>fahrbot-bot</author>
	<datestamp>1265310300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... *all* members of the US House and Senate have been scheduled for fMRI scans<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... (sigh).</htmltext>
<tokenext>... * all * members of the US House and Senate have been scheduled for fMRI scans ... ( sigh ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... *all* members of the US House and Senate have been scheduled for fMRI scans ... (sigh).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024972</id>
	<title>Re:Like a House episode?</title>
	<author>Taibhsear</author>
	<datestamp>1265311440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That "black man" as you put it, was Mos Def (the actor/rapper). Granted being the nerd website this is, you may not be into rap/hiphop/whatever (I'm certainly not), you should however recall that he was in Hitchhiker's Guide. I will have to be confiscating your nerd card now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That " black man " as you put it , was Mos Def ( the actor/rapper ) .
Granted being the nerd website this is , you may not be into rap/hiphop/whatever ( I 'm certainly not ) , you should however recall that he was in Hitchhiker 's Guide .
I will have to be confiscating your nerd card now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That "black man" as you put it, was Mos Def (the actor/rapper).
Granted being the nerd website this is, you may not be into rap/hiphop/whatever (I'm certainly not), you should however recall that he was in Hitchhiker's Guide.
I will have to be confiscating your nerd card now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025292</id>
	<title>Re:4 out of 23?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265313120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey, cool, you assumed he only sent out 23 and then used it as the basis for a personal attack.  You're not a pedantic shitdick at all</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , cool , you assumed he only sent out 23 and then used it as the basis for a personal attack .
You 're not a pedantic shitdick at all</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, cool, you assumed he only sent out 23 and then used it as the basis for a personal attack.
You're not a pedantic shitdick at all</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023554</id>
	<title>Nightmares</title>
	<author>nomorecwrd</author>
	<datestamp>1265304900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Anyone else is having nightmares with this news?<br>Imagine being 20 years locked down inside your body... I guess I would be begging for someone to pull the plug.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone else is having nightmares with this news ? Imagine being 20 years locked down inside your body... I guess I would be begging for someone to pull the plug .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone else is having nightmares with this news?Imagine being 20 years locked down inside your body... I guess I would be begging for someone to pull the plug.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023608</id>
	<title>Re:Vegetative patients say</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265305140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You know, your joke got me to thinking... what if they hooked this up to some vegetables on someone's plate and the vegetables responded "don't eat us!". Would this cause the creation of <a href="http://www.thebigjewel.com/thepetvnewsletter/" title="thebigjewel.com">PETV</a> [thebigjewel.com]? On the bright side, its members probably wouldn't last long without food...</htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , your joke got me to thinking... what if they hooked this up to some vegetables on someone 's plate and the vegetables responded " do n't eat us ! " .
Would this cause the creation of PETV [ thebigjewel.com ] ?
On the bright side , its members probably would n't last long without food.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, your joke got me to thinking... what if they hooked this up to some vegetables on someone's plate and the vegetables responded "don't eat us!".
Would this cause the creation of PETV [thebigjewel.com]?
On the bright side, its members probably wouldn't last long without food...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31024760</id>
	<title>Re:Euthanasia</title>
	<author>bareman</author>
	<datestamp>1265310420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think we've come full circle</p><p>"for the last five years of my life, forgotten by and an embarrassment to my friends and family is my idea of hell."</p><p>back to the World of Warcraft player.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think we 've come full circle " for the last five years of my life , forgotten by and an embarrassment to my friends and family is my idea of hell .
" back to the World of Warcraft player .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think we've come full circle"for the last five years of my life, forgotten by and an embarrassment to my friends and family is my idea of hell.
"back to the World of Warcraft player.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023702</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023998</id>
	<title>Re:False Positive</title>
	<author>LordNimon</author>
	<datestamp>1265307180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>but it seems to me that 4 out of 23 is a pretty low success rate</i>
<br> <br>
You wouldn't say that if you were one of those four.</htmltext>
<tokenext>but it seems to me that 4 out of 23 is a pretty low success rate You would n't say that if you were one of those four .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but it seems to me that 4 out of 23 is a pretty low success rate
 
You wouldn't say that if you were one of those four.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023214</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023496</id>
	<title>Re:False Positive</title>
	<author>Fnkmaster</author>
	<datestamp>1265304660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think they addressed the "no answer" vs. "B", however, they did assess the patients' ability to answer a series of factual questions about the patient's life prior to whatever put them where they were - I think that pretty much shows that there is something non-spurious being measured here and it's not just the dead salmon fMRI effect as another reply suggested - the probability of random readings matching up with the correct answers to a series of such questions seems very minute.</p><p>And 4 out of 23 is not a success rate - it's a misdiagnosis rate!  Nobody in their right mind is claiming that *all* patients in persistent vegetative states have meaningful cognition occurring (except the EXTREMELY inaccurate and misleading Slashdot article title).  Rather, some patients who failed the standard tests to assess consciousness levels are perhaps more conscious than was previously detectable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think they addressed the " no answer " vs. " B " , however , they did assess the patients ' ability to answer a series of factual questions about the patient 's life prior to whatever put them where they were - I think that pretty much shows that there is something non-spurious being measured here and it 's not just the dead salmon fMRI effect as another reply suggested - the probability of random readings matching up with the correct answers to a series of such questions seems very minute.And 4 out of 23 is not a success rate - it 's a misdiagnosis rate !
Nobody in their right mind is claiming that * all * patients in persistent vegetative states have meaningful cognition occurring ( except the EXTREMELY inaccurate and misleading Slashdot article title ) .
Rather , some patients who failed the standard tests to assess consciousness levels are perhaps more conscious than was previously detectable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think they addressed the "no answer" vs. "B", however, they did assess the patients' ability to answer a series of factual questions about the patient's life prior to whatever put them where they were - I think that pretty much shows that there is something non-spurious being measured here and it's not just the dead salmon fMRI effect as another reply suggested - the probability of random readings matching up with the correct answers to a series of such questions seems very minute.And 4 out of 23 is not a success rate - it's a misdiagnosis rate!
Nobody in their right mind is claiming that *all* patients in persistent vegetative states have meaningful cognition occurring (except the EXTREMELY inaccurate and misleading Slashdot article title).
Rather, some patients who failed the standard tests to assess consciousness levels are perhaps more conscious than was previously detectable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023214</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31023660</id>
	<title>Interesting Article</title>
	<author>filesiteguy</author>
	<datestamp>1265305380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wonder if they expanded the fMRI to review what happens when other questions are posed.  My brother-in-law has been in a "vegetative state" for 20+ years, since he smashed his car into a tree. I'd be curious to know what he thinks about things.<br><br>OTOH, is a vegetative state someone with consciousness or simply brain injured enough not to be able to respond?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if they expanded the fMRI to review what happens when other questions are posed .
My brother-in-law has been in a " vegetative state " for 20 + years , since he smashed his car into a tree .
I 'd be curious to know what he thinks about things.OTOH , is a vegetative state someone with consciousness or simply brain injured enough not to be able to respond ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if they expanded the fMRI to review what happens when other questions are posed.
My brother-in-law has been in a "vegetative state" for 20+ years, since he smashed his car into a tree.
I'd be curious to know what he thinks about things.OTOH, is a vegetative state someone with consciousness or simply brain injured enough not to be able to respond?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_04_1322246.31025062</id>
	<title>Old News</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265311860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>House already did this</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>House already did this</tokentext>
<sentencetext>House already did this</sentencetext>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_02_04_1322246_5</id>
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