<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_02_01_064232</id>
	<title>Key EDS Witness Bought Internet Degree</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1265053320000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"EDS's key witness during the firm's <a href="http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/01/26/2046216/BSkyB-Wins-pound709m-Lawsuit-Against-HP-EDS?art\_pos=1"> court case against BSkyB</a> was shown to have bought his degree online &ndash; but <a href="http://www.itnews.com.au/News/165888,key-eds-witness-bought-internet-degree.aspx"> still managed to get a worse mark than a dog</a>. Joe Galloway said he had a degree from Concordia College in the US Virgin Islands and gave detailed evidence on how he took plane journeys between the islands and attended a college there. But while questioning Galloway in court, Mark Howard QC managed to obtain exactly the same degree as Galloway from Concordia College for his dog 'Lulu' with one key difference &ndash; the dog got a higher mark."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " EDS 's key witness during the firm 's court case against BSkyB was shown to have bought his degree online    but still managed to get a worse mark than a dog .
Joe Galloway said he had a degree from Concordia College in the US Virgin Islands and gave detailed evidence on how he took plane journeys between the islands and attended a college there .
But while questioning Galloway in court , Mark Howard QC managed to obtain exactly the same degree as Galloway from Concordia College for his dog 'Lulu ' with one key difference    the dog got a higher mark .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "EDS's key witness during the firm's  court case against BSkyB was shown to have bought his degree online – but  still managed to get a worse mark than a dog.
Joe Galloway said he had a degree from Concordia College in the US Virgin Islands and gave detailed evidence on how he took plane journeys between the islands and attended a college there.
But while questioning Galloway in court, Mark Howard QC managed to obtain exactly the same degree as Galloway from Concordia College for his dog 'Lulu' with one key difference – the dog got a higher mark.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979270</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265027340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Education doesn't show an ability to learn.  how do i know this?  because I know people with degrees who won't learn a damn thing that college didn't teach them.  I also know people without degrees that not only learn something new every day, but try to build on that.</p><p>All a degree shows is that you sat through boring lectures and accepted the knowledge passed in them.  All it shows is that you can sit in a 9am management meeting without falling asleep.</p><p>A degree does give you specialized knowledge that on the job training can't give you.  and there are many jobs that require such knowledge but it doesn't show anything other than you have that knowledge.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Education does n't show an ability to learn .
how do i know this ?
because I know people with degrees who wo n't learn a damn thing that college did n't teach them .
I also know people without degrees that not only learn something new every day , but try to build on that.All a degree shows is that you sat through boring lectures and accepted the knowledge passed in them .
All it shows is that you can sit in a 9am management meeting without falling asleep.A degree does give you specialized knowledge that on the job training ca n't give you .
and there are many jobs that require such knowledge but it does n't show anything other than you have that knowledge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Education doesn't show an ability to learn.
how do i know this?
because I know people with degrees who won't learn a damn thing that college didn't teach them.
I also know people without degrees that not only learn something new every day, but try to build on that.All a degree shows is that you sat through boring lectures and accepted the knowledge passed in them.
All it shows is that you can sit in a 9am management meeting without falling asleep.A degree does give you specialized knowledge that on the job training can't give you.
and there are many jobs that require such knowledge but it doesn't show anything other than you have that knowledge.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30986850</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>pnutjam</author>
	<datestamp>1265018520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'll bet you don't ski as well as you think you do.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll bet you do n't ski as well as you think you do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll bet you don't ski as well as you think you do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978922</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978330</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>91degrees</author>
	<datestamp>1265057940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, a degree is ultimately a bit of paper.<br> <br>
As far as "useless" goes, okay, I probably use at most about 5\% of what I learned at university.  So it has actually been useful - just not as useful as one might expect.  Of course, even most of that 5\% I could have learned from textbooks, but the course structure gave me a little context.  It told me what there was to know.  I have no idea whether I'd have learned about functional programming languages or Hough transforms without university guidance.  I wouldn't have known they exist even to look for them.  Granted, neither of those two examples have actually come up in the working environment, but I imagine there are some that have <br> <br>
<i>If you want one, you should do it for yourself, not for a job.</i> <br> <br>
Having said what I said, I still 100\% agree with this statement.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , a degree is ultimately a bit of paper .
As far as " useless " goes , okay , I probably use at most about 5 \ % of what I learned at university .
So it has actually been useful - just not as useful as one might expect .
Of course , even most of that 5 \ % I could have learned from textbooks , but the course structure gave me a little context .
It told me what there was to know .
I have no idea whether I 'd have learned about functional programming languages or Hough transforms without university guidance .
I would n't have known they exist even to look for them .
Granted , neither of those two examples have actually come up in the working environment , but I imagine there are some that have If you want one , you should do it for yourself , not for a job .
Having said what I said , I still 100 \ % agree with this statement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, a degree is ultimately a bit of paper.
As far as "useless" goes, okay, I probably use at most about 5\% of what I learned at university.
So it has actually been useful - just not as useful as one might expect.
Of course, even most of that 5\% I could have learned from textbooks, but the course structure gave me a little context.
It told me what there was to know.
I have no idea whether I'd have learned about functional programming languages or Hough transforms without university guidance.
I wouldn't have known they exist even to look for them.
Granted, neither of those two examples have actually come up in the working environment, but I imagine there are some that have  
If you want one, you should do it for yourself, not for a job.
Having said what I said, I still 100\% agree with this statement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978416</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>siloko</author>
	<datestamp>1265016000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're making the standard mistake when assessing the value of education. Your criticisms would be valid if <i>all</i> education was supposed to do was provide utility to companies. However education can not only improves your quality of life it may also shows an 'ability' to learn and provide a practical gauge of general intelligence - both of which are useful things for future employers to know.

I did Philosophy/Politics at university and have since graduation worked as a software engineer - and for the first seven years of my working life worked with another Philosophy graduate, an History of Science graduate and a high school drop out - all excellent programmers! One of the things my employers mentioned about my education on offering the job was that my education at the very least proved that I could 'think', which they believed a valuable attribute. Blanket statements about the utility of further education fail.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're making the standard mistake when assessing the value of education .
Your criticisms would be valid if all education was supposed to do was provide utility to companies .
However education can not only improves your quality of life it may also shows an 'ability ' to learn and provide a practical gauge of general intelligence - both of which are useful things for future employers to know .
I did Philosophy/Politics at university and have since graduation worked as a software engineer - and for the first seven years of my working life worked with another Philosophy graduate , an History of Science graduate and a high school drop out - all excellent programmers !
One of the things my employers mentioned about my education on offering the job was that my education at the very least proved that I could 'think ' , which they believed a valuable attribute .
Blanket statements about the utility of further education fail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're making the standard mistake when assessing the value of education.
Your criticisms would be valid if all education was supposed to do was provide utility to companies.
However education can not only improves your quality of life it may also shows an 'ability' to learn and provide a practical gauge of general intelligence - both of which are useful things for future employers to know.
I did Philosophy/Politics at university and have since graduation worked as a software engineer - and for the first seven years of my working life worked with another Philosophy graduate, an History of Science graduate and a high school drop out - all excellent programmers!
One of the things my employers mentioned about my education on offering the job was that my education at the very least proved that I could 'think', which they believed a valuable attribute.
Blanket statements about the utility of further education fail.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30986440</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>thrawn\_aj</author>
	<datestamp>1265017080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As far as "useless" goes, okay, I probably use at most about 5\% of what I learned at university.</p>  </div><p>By 5\% of course, you mean a very little amount, since this is hardly quantifiable. Of course, these small percentages in many cases are such that their lack can make it extremely difficult to get the remaining 95\% of the knowledge. As you said yourself, a university education can give you a good foundation (the operative word being 'can'). I took just one sequence of programming courses (C++) in college and that was enough to be comfortable with any language I needed to know thereafter for working in physics.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as " useless " goes , okay , I probably use at most about 5 \ % of what I learned at university .
By 5 \ % of course , you mean a very little amount , since this is hardly quantifiable .
Of course , these small percentages in many cases are such that their lack can make it extremely difficult to get the remaining 95 \ % of the knowledge .
As you said yourself , a university education can give you a good foundation ( the operative word being 'can ' ) .
I took just one sequence of programming courses ( C + + ) in college and that was enough to be comfortable with any language I needed to know thereafter for working in physics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as "useless" goes, okay, I probably use at most about 5\% of what I learned at university.
By 5\% of course, you mean a very little amount, since this is hardly quantifiable.
Of course, these small percentages in many cases are such that their lack can make it extremely difficult to get the remaining 95\% of the knowledge.
As you said yourself, a university education can give you a good foundation (the operative word being 'can').
I took just one sequence of programming courses (C++) in college and that was enough to be comfortable with any language I needed to know thereafter for working in physics.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30981594</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1265041620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> That's why hiring isn't (or shouldn't be) done on solely a candidate's degree.</p></div></blockquote><p>What is often written (and if not written, often iimplied) in job descriptions is that is says "Degree X or equivalent by experience". This certainly happens in IT. Not in places where a degree is a must, like a docter or a lawer.</p><p>That obviously does not make it OK to lie about it, but I can imagine that people might do so, because they are afraid not to get the job and as long as they have the experience, no one is the wiser.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's why hiring is n't ( or should n't be ) done on solely a candidate 's degree.What is often written ( and if not written , often iimplied ) in job descriptions is that is says " Degree X or equivalent by experience " .
This certainly happens in IT .
Not in places where a degree is a must , like a docter or a lawer.That obviously does not make it OK to lie about it , but I can imagine that people might do so , because they are afraid not to get the job and as long as they have the experience , no one is the wiser .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> That's why hiring isn't (or shouldn't be) done on solely a candidate's degree.What is often written (and if not written, often iimplied) in job descriptions is that is says "Degree X or equivalent by experience".
This certainly happens in IT.
Not in places where a degree is a must, like a docter or a lawer.That obviously does not make it OK to lie about it, but I can imagine that people might do so, because they are afraid not to get the job and as long as they have the experience, no one is the wiser.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978352</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978268</id>
	<title>i mean</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265057280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>wtf man</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>wtf man</tokentext>
<sentencetext>wtf man</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979012</id>
	<title>Re:Two things...</title>
	<author>petermgreen</author>
	<datestamp>1265023980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Two, about those slackers, I don't know what to say. Did they cheat to get their degrees? Or did they forget a lot of what they learned due to not applying it?</i><br>Some people probablly do outright cheat but I suspect a lot more are merely taking advantage of the testing system while staying within the rules.</p><p>It is often possible to get through a course with a good mark without really understanding what you are doing as long as you have a reasonable skill in applying mathematical methods and can cram a series of steps, mechanically apply them in the exam and then forget them soon after as you learn the next set.</p><p>I've done this for one or two modules but some people seem to do it for every module and are a lot better at doing it than me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Two , about those slackers , I do n't know what to say .
Did they cheat to get their degrees ?
Or did they forget a lot of what they learned due to not applying it ? Some people probablly do outright cheat but I suspect a lot more are merely taking advantage of the testing system while staying within the rules.It is often possible to get through a course with a good mark without really understanding what you are doing as long as you have a reasonable skill in applying mathematical methods and can cram a series of steps , mechanically apply them in the exam and then forget them soon after as you learn the next set.I 've done this for one or two modules but some people seem to do it for every module and are a lot better at doing it than me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Two, about those slackers, I don't know what to say.
Did they cheat to get their degrees?
Or did they forget a lot of what they learned due to not applying it?Some people probablly do outright cheat but I suspect a lot more are merely taking advantage of the testing system while staying within the rules.It is often possible to get through a course with a good mark without really understanding what you are doing as long as you have a reasonable skill in applying mathematical methods and can cram a series of steps, mechanically apply them in the exam and then forget them soon after as you learn the next set.I've done this for one or two modules but some people seem to do it for every module and are a lot better at doing it than me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978784</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978336</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265014800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>College degrees are way overrated.</p></div><p>Not really. It's Human Resource people who make the hiring decisions who are over-rated. They look for degrees, good references and personality to make their decisions, instead of looking at a person's ability. Like the article said; </p><p><div class="quote"><p>He gave his evidence [on going to the college] in the same confident, secure manner as he gave his evidence about the EDS representations.</p></div><p>Smart people usually aren't confident because they know how ignorant they are. HR people look for confidence in a person when hiring. Confident people also get promoted. It's all about sales, not ability. I'd rather hire an insecure person who wasn't confident in his abilities to do differential equations than hire somebody who confidently lies about his ability because he thinks (and knows) people are stupid enough to judge him based on how he presents himself.</p><p>Presentation is everything, that's why PowerPoint is so popular with business and sales people. It's quite useless, but it's pretty and it looks smart.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>College degrees are way overrated.Not really .
It 's Human Resource people who make the hiring decisions who are over-rated .
They look for degrees , good references and personality to make their decisions , instead of looking at a person 's ability .
Like the article said ; He gave his evidence [ on going to the college ] in the same confident , secure manner as he gave his evidence about the EDS representations.Smart people usually are n't confident because they know how ignorant they are .
HR people look for confidence in a person when hiring .
Confident people also get promoted .
It 's all about sales , not ability .
I 'd rather hire an insecure person who was n't confident in his abilities to do differential equations than hire somebody who confidently lies about his ability because he thinks ( and knows ) people are stupid enough to judge him based on how he presents himself.Presentation is everything , that 's why PowerPoint is so popular with business and sales people .
It 's quite useless , but it 's pretty and it looks smart .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>College degrees are way overrated.Not really.
It's Human Resource people who make the hiring decisions who are over-rated.
They look for degrees, good references and personality to make their decisions, instead of looking at a person's ability.
Like the article said; He gave his evidence [on going to the college] in the same confident, secure manner as he gave his evidence about the EDS representations.Smart people usually aren't confident because they know how ignorant they are.
HR people look for confidence in a person when hiring.
Confident people also get promoted.
It's all about sales, not ability.
I'd rather hire an insecure person who wasn't confident in his abilities to do differential equations than hire somebody who confidently lies about his ability because he thinks (and knows) people are stupid enough to judge him based on how he presents himself.Presentation is everything, that's why PowerPoint is so popular with business and sales people.
It's quite useless, but it's pretty and it looks smart.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979006</id>
	<title>Want a degree</title>
	<author>Dan541</author>
	<datestamp>1265023860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here you go: <a href="http://thunderwoodcollege.com/" title="thunderwoodcollege.com">http://thunderwoodcollege.com/</a> [thunderwoodcollege.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here you go : http : //thunderwoodcollege.com/ [ thunderwoodcollege.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here you go: http://thunderwoodcollege.com/ [thunderwoodcollege.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30982670</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265045820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to be difficult here.</p><p>A degree from the Colorado School of Mines is not just a bit of paper. This is because they print the degrees on silver. No joke. So my degree is worth whatever a few grams of silver is, something like $40. I could easily trade it for a pizza, if the person that owns the shop is also a precious metal dealership.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to be difficult here.A degree from the Colorado School of Mines is not just a bit of paper .
This is because they print the degrees on silver .
No joke .
So my degree is worth whatever a few grams of silver is , something like $ 40 .
I could easily trade it for a pizza , if the person that owns the shop is also a precious metal dealership .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to be difficult here.A degree from the Colorado School of Mines is not just a bit of paper.
This is because they print the degrees on silver.
No joke.
So my degree is worth whatever a few grams of silver is, something like $40.
I could easily trade it for a pizza, if the person that owns the shop is also a precious metal dealership.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978352</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Dunbal</author>
	<datestamp>1265015040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I spent a lot of time to get my advanced degrees, but I have no illusions about their actual value. My real value comes from my work experience and successes in my field.</i></p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Just to take the devil's advocate position here: you essentially are implying that you learned nothing in school and could have had the same successes without taking the courses you took?</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I (owner of a piece of paper that says I am a medical doctor) agree that at the end of the day a degree is just a piece of paper. The real value is what you yourself put into the course, it's not "granted" to you by some outside force. I know people with exactly the same degree I have who, frankly, I would never let near my children. I myself used my training as an excuse to spend as much time as possible with patients, including weekends and holidays when I really didn't have to be there. So in essence I agree with you, it's not "the degree" that has given me a far more profound understanding of medicine than most of my classmates (who did the bare minimum). Rather it's my attitude towards learning, problem solving, and work that let me get ahead in my field.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; However there has to be some objective method of classifying a potential employee, and the degree (and where it came from) is a very simple test. Yes there are bound to be highly efficient individuals who lack university degrees (my grandfather made millions - far more than I could ever hope to earn - and never had more than 3rd grade). And there are bound to be slackers who despite having prestigious degrees are absolutely useless. That's why hiring isn't (or shouldn't be) done on solely a candidate's degree. It's just another tool when sifting through the work-force to help identify the individual you think will be of greatest use to you.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; However, all else being equal, I would be more inclined to trust someone with a Harvard degree than a degree from "Concordia Online College"...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I spent a lot of time to get my advanced degrees , but I have no illusions about their actual value .
My real value comes from my work experience and successes in my field .
      Just to take the devil 's advocate position here : you essentially are implying that you learned nothing in school and could have had the same successes without taking the courses you took ?
      I ( owner of a piece of paper that says I am a medical doctor ) agree that at the end of the day a degree is just a piece of paper .
The real value is what you yourself put into the course , it 's not " granted " to you by some outside force .
I know people with exactly the same degree I have who , frankly , I would never let near my children .
I myself used my training as an excuse to spend as much time as possible with patients , including weekends and holidays when I really did n't have to be there .
So in essence I agree with you , it 's not " the degree " that has given me a far more profound understanding of medicine than most of my classmates ( who did the bare minimum ) .
Rather it 's my attitude towards learning , problem solving , and work that let me get ahead in my field .
      However there has to be some objective method of classifying a potential employee , and the degree ( and where it came from ) is a very simple test .
Yes there are bound to be highly efficient individuals who lack university degrees ( my grandfather made millions - far more than I could ever hope to earn - and never had more than 3rd grade ) .
And there are bound to be slackers who despite having prestigious degrees are absolutely useless .
That 's why hiring is n't ( or should n't be ) done on solely a candidate 's degree .
It 's just another tool when sifting through the work-force to help identify the individual you think will be of greatest use to you .
      However , all else being equal , I would be more inclined to trust someone with a Harvard degree than a degree from " Concordia Online College " .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I spent a lot of time to get my advanced degrees, but I have no illusions about their actual value.
My real value comes from my work experience and successes in my field.
      Just to take the devil's advocate position here: you essentially are implying that you learned nothing in school and could have had the same successes without taking the courses you took?
      I (owner of a piece of paper that says I am a medical doctor) agree that at the end of the day a degree is just a piece of paper.
The real value is what you yourself put into the course, it's not "granted" to you by some outside force.
I know people with exactly the same degree I have who, frankly, I would never let near my children.
I myself used my training as an excuse to spend as much time as possible with patients, including weekends and holidays when I really didn't have to be there.
So in essence I agree with you, it's not "the degree" that has given me a far more profound understanding of medicine than most of my classmates (who did the bare minimum).
Rather it's my attitude towards learning, problem solving, and work that let me get ahead in my field.
      However there has to be some objective method of classifying a potential employee, and the degree (and where it came from) is a very simple test.
Yes there are bound to be highly efficient individuals who lack university degrees (my grandfather made millions - far more than I could ever hope to earn - and never had more than 3rd grade).
And there are bound to be slackers who despite having prestigious degrees are absolutely useless.
That's why hiring isn't (or shouldn't be) done on solely a candidate's degree.
It's just another tool when sifting through the work-force to help identify the individual you think will be of greatest use to you.
      However, all else being equal, I would be more inclined to trust someone with a Harvard degree than a degree from "Concordia Online College"...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30988620</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Brian Gordon</author>
	<datestamp>1265025540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, a job is ultimately just a lot of little papers good for furniture and hamburgers. If it's all a bit of paper, then what makes one better than the other?</p><p>Learning to think and to understand is what really matters in life, and university is the best place to do that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , a job is ultimately just a lot of little papers good for furniture and hamburgers .
If it 's all a bit of paper , then what makes one better than the other ? Learning to think and to understand is what really matters in life , and university is the best place to do that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, a job is ultimately just a lot of little papers good for furniture and hamburgers.
If it's all a bit of paper, then what makes one better than the other?Learning to think and to understand is what really matters in life, and university is the best place to do that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978450</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>LKM</author>
	<datestamp>1265016420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>College degrees are way overrated. This is coming from someone with multiple degrees from MIT, Harvard, and Oxford.</p></div><p>Maybe you did something wrong. Personally, I learned a lot in school, and when studying. Including a ton of stuff I would not have learned if I had spent the same amount of time working, but which turned out to be a tremendous help when doing actual work (stuff that immediately comes to mind would be how to write an application in assembly and C, and how to write an operating system, which makes it easier to figure out what's going on when you're programming in a higher-level language; also, how to write a compiler, which includes useful things like writing parsers and state machines, which helps me write proper solutions to problems that I would otherwise have tried to implement using a bunch of regexes).</p><p>There's also the point that nothing stops you from working while you're studying, especially if you're studying something like comp sci. Lots of great companies came out of a student's side project.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>College degrees are way overrated .
This is coming from someone with multiple degrees from MIT , Harvard , and Oxford.Maybe you did something wrong .
Personally , I learned a lot in school , and when studying .
Including a ton of stuff I would not have learned if I had spent the same amount of time working , but which turned out to be a tremendous help when doing actual work ( stuff that immediately comes to mind would be how to write an application in assembly and C , and how to write an operating system , which makes it easier to figure out what 's going on when you 're programming in a higher-level language ; also , how to write a compiler , which includes useful things like writing parsers and state machines , which helps me write proper solutions to problems that I would otherwise have tried to implement using a bunch of regexes ) .There 's also the point that nothing stops you from working while you 're studying , especially if you 're studying something like comp sci .
Lots of great companies came out of a student 's side project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>College degrees are way overrated.
This is coming from someone with multiple degrees from MIT, Harvard, and Oxford.Maybe you did something wrong.
Personally, I learned a lot in school, and when studying.
Including a ton of stuff I would not have learned if I had spent the same amount of time working, but which turned out to be a tremendous help when doing actual work (stuff that immediately comes to mind would be how to write an application in assembly and C, and how to write an operating system, which makes it easier to figure out what's going on when you're programming in a higher-level language; also, how to write a compiler, which includes useful things like writing parsers and state machines, which helps me write proper solutions to problems that I would otherwise have tried to implement using a bunch of regexes).There's also the point that nothing stops you from working while you're studying, especially if you're studying something like comp sci.
Lots of great companies came out of a student's side project.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979672</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1265032020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>I spent a lot of time to get my advanced degrees, but I have no illusions about their actual value. My real value comes from my work experience and successes in my field.</p></div><p>Just to take the devil's advocate position here: you essentially are implying that you learned nothing in school and could have had the same successes without taking the courses you took?</p></div><p>He said the piece of paper was worthless, not that the schooling was worthless. Of course, a lot of schooling IS worthless... but that's a separate conversation.</p><p>They didn't have very high English requirements at your school, I take it?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I spent a lot of time to get my advanced degrees , but I have no illusions about their actual value .
My real value comes from my work experience and successes in my field.Just to take the devil 's advocate position here : you essentially are implying that you learned nothing in school and could have had the same successes without taking the courses you took ? He said the piece of paper was worthless , not that the schooling was worthless .
Of course , a lot of schooling IS worthless... but that 's a separate conversation.They did n't have very high English requirements at your school , I take it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I spent a lot of time to get my advanced degrees, but I have no illusions about their actual value.
My real value comes from my work experience and successes in my field.Just to take the devil's advocate position here: you essentially are implying that you learned nothing in school and could have had the same successes without taking the courses you took?He said the piece of paper was worthless, not that the schooling was worthless.
Of course, a lot of schooling IS worthless... but that's a separate conversation.They didn't have very high English requirements at your school, I take it?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978352</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30982428</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Cheech Wizard</author>
	<datestamp>1265044860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Now my Chemistry degree,  that's not so useful...</p></div><p> I use mine to understand ingredients on product labels on food and drug commercials, mostly.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now my Chemistry degree , that 's not so useful... I use mine to understand ingredients on product labels on food and drug commercials , mostly .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now my Chemistry degree,  that's not so useful... I use mine to understand ingredients on product labels on food and drug commercials, mostly.
;)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978276</id>
	<title>Re: Article</title>
	<author>Bahamut\_Omega</author>
	<datestamp>1265057340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hmm; a joker that got a joke degree with real money. I'm just wondering if they've been smoking their cash &amp; weed at the same time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmm ; a joker that got a joke degree with real money .
I 'm just wondering if they 've been smoking their cash &amp; weed at the same time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmm; a joker that got a joke degree with real money.
I'm just wondering if they've been smoking their cash &amp; weed at the same time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979264</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>AK Marc</author>
	<datestamp>1265027220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Just to take the devil's advocate position here: you essentially are implying that you learned nothing in school and could have had the same successes without taking the courses you took?</i> <br> <br>I picked up an MBA in my spare time so I'd have it for people that want to see it.  I learned more in my first 6 months in the workforce than I did in the classroom getting undergrad and master's degrees. It's not that you learn nothing, but that if you keep your eyes open you can get paid to learn more in 6 months than paying for years of college.<br> <br> <i>However, all else being equal, I would be more inclined to trust someone with a Harvard degree than a degree from "Concordia Online College"...</i> <br> <br>But the real question is, would you trust the Harvard Man, or your grandfather?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just to take the devil 's advocate position here : you essentially are implying that you learned nothing in school and could have had the same successes without taking the courses you took ?
I picked up an MBA in my spare time so I 'd have it for people that want to see it .
I learned more in my first 6 months in the workforce than I did in the classroom getting undergrad and master 's degrees .
It 's not that you learn nothing , but that if you keep your eyes open you can get paid to learn more in 6 months than paying for years of college .
However , all else being equal , I would be more inclined to trust someone with a Harvard degree than a degree from " Concordia Online College " ... But the real question is , would you trust the Harvard Man , or your grandfather ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just to take the devil's advocate position here: you essentially are implying that you learned nothing in school and could have had the same successes without taking the courses you took?
I picked up an MBA in my spare time so I'd have it for people that want to see it.
I learned more in my first 6 months in the workforce than I did in the classroom getting undergrad and master's degrees.
It's not that you learn nothing, but that if you keep your eyes open you can get paid to learn more in 6 months than paying for years of college.
However, all else being equal, I would be more inclined to trust someone with a Harvard degree than a degree from "Concordia Online College"...  But the real question is, would you trust the Harvard Man, or your grandfather?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978352</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30992924</id>
	<title>Re:Want a degree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265108940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thank you Thunderwood College.  Since doing your Doctorate in whatever it was, I have now doubled my earnings, got that promotion I always wanted and can tell other know it alls with degrees from reputable Universities to 'STFU!' because I have a Doctorate compared to their measly Degrees.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you Thunderwood College .
Since doing your Doctorate in whatever it was , I have now doubled my earnings , got that promotion I always wanted and can tell other know it alls with degrees from reputable Universities to 'STFU !
' because I have a Doctorate compared to their measly Degrees .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you Thunderwood College.
Since doing your Doctorate in whatever it was, I have now doubled my earnings, got that promotion I always wanted and can tell other know it alls with degrees from reputable Universities to 'STFU!
' because I have a Doctorate compared to their measly Degrees.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979006</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978266</id>
	<title>Bad for Internet PR</title>
	<author>Asadullah Ahmad</author>
	<datestamp>1265057280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Its stuff like this that makes people question even reliable and accurate information on Internet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Its stuff like this that makes people question even reliable and accurate information on Internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its stuff like this that makes people question even reliable and accurate information on Internet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.31035942</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265392560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It's Human Resource people who make the hiring decisions who are over-rated. They look for degrees, good references and personality to make their decisions, instead of looking at a person's ability</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
You think it's unfair to hire someone with a good personality?  Only on slashdot...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's Human Resource people who make the hiring decisions who are over-rated .
They look for degrees , good references and personality to make their decisions , instead of looking at a person 's ability You think it 's unfair to hire someone with a good personality ?
Only on slashdot.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's Human Resource people who make the hiring decisions who are over-rated.
They look for degrees, good references and personality to make their decisions, instead of looking at a person's ability

You think it's unfair to hire someone with a good personality?
Only on slashdot...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978336</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978412</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265015940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Somehow I really, really doubt you went to MIT, Harvard and Oxford.  If you went to any of those institutions, you'd know the connections you make during school at those types of institutes are invaluable for networking later in life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Somehow I really , really doubt you went to MIT , Harvard and Oxford .
If you went to any of those institutions , you 'd know the connections you make during school at those types of institutes are invaluable for networking later in life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Somehow I really, really doubt you went to MIT, Harvard and Oxford.
If you went to any of those institutions, you'd know the connections you make during school at those types of institutes are invaluable for networking later in life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30990988</id>
	<title>Re:My dog is smarter than your dog.</title>
	<author>nightcats</author>
	<datestamp>1265039520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Amazing coincidence that others have surely noticed -- this is the same company with the famous <a href="http://bestoftheblogs.com/Home/25119" title="bestoftheblogs.com" rel="nofollow">cat herding commercial</a> [bestoftheblogs.com], right?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Amazing coincidence that others have surely noticed -- this is the same company with the famous cat herding commercial [ bestoftheblogs.com ] , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Amazing coincidence that others have surely noticed -- this is the same company with the famous cat herding commercial [bestoftheblogs.com], right?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30981256</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>dnoyeb</author>
	<datestamp>1265040300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree somewhat.  I think it depends largely on the College you attent. If its a big name place, then they are primarily concerned with keeping their big name and their big donations.  Other schools are too stupid to know how the game is played.  Those schools actually teach you useful information like the one I attended.</p><p>On another note, I am an EE but I write software.  I studied software on my own because its my first love.  I don't think an EE has any advantage over a software degree.</p><p>Software is not as simple as making the hardware go.  To many EEs think this way and I spend lots of time fighting with them trying to make sure they understand what 'good' software is.  Management too.  If it goes to the lab and works, they want to ship it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree somewhat .
I think it depends largely on the College you attent .
If its a big name place , then they are primarily concerned with keeping their big name and their big donations .
Other schools are too stupid to know how the game is played .
Those schools actually teach you useful information like the one I attended.On another note , I am an EE but I write software .
I studied software on my own because its my first love .
I do n't think an EE has any advantage over a software degree.Software is not as simple as making the hardware go .
To many EEs think this way and I spend lots of time fighting with them trying to make sure they understand what 'good ' software is .
Management too .
If it goes to the lab and works , they want to ship it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree somewhat.
I think it depends largely on the College you attent.
If its a big name place, then they are primarily concerned with keeping their big name and their big donations.
Other schools are too stupid to know how the game is played.
Those schools actually teach you useful information like the one I attended.On another note, I am an EE but I write software.
I studied software on my own because its my first love.
I don't think an EE has any advantage over a software degree.Software is not as simple as making the hardware go.
To many EEs think this way and I spend lots of time fighting with them trying to make sure they understand what 'good' software is.
Management too.
If it goes to the lab and works, they want to ship it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30990342</id>
	<title>Permitting</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1265034780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Permitting diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree.<br> <br>

TFTFY.<br> <br>

Some nations actually enforce standards on educational institutions to prevent these kind of scams from occurring. A diploma or degree shows that you had some level of competence in attaining it and went through the arduous motions of attaining it when those minimum standards are actually enforced. This is why an MCITP certification is not a nationally recognised competency.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Permitting diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree .
TFTFY . Some nations actually enforce standards on educational institutions to prevent these kind of scams from occurring .
A diploma or degree shows that you had some level of competence in attaining it and went through the arduous motions of attaining it when those minimum standards are actually enforced .
This is why an MCITP certification is not a nationally recognised competency .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Permitting diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree.
TFTFY. 

Some nations actually enforce standards on educational institutions to prevent these kind of scams from occurring.
A diploma or degree shows that you had some level of competence in attaining it and went through the arduous motions of attaining it when those minimum standards are actually enforced.
This is why an MCITP certification is not a nationally recognised competency.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979126</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Geminii</author>
	<datestamp>1265025480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not everyone networks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not everyone networks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not everyone networks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979510</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>machine321</author>
	<datestamp>1265030100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He said he had degrees from there, he didn't say he attended.  Shoot, I have a laser printer too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He said he had degrees from there , he did n't say he attended .
Shoot , I have a laser printer too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He said he had degrees from there, he didn't say he attended.
Shoot, I have a laser printer too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30982844</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1265046540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, but do you have 25 years experience programming in Java and a willingness to start in the mailroom?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , but do you have 25 years experience programming in Java and a willingness to start in the mailroom ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, but do you have 25 years experience programming in Java and a willingness to start in the mailroom?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30982008</id>
	<title>Chemistry degree</title>
	<author>Kupfernigk</author>
	<datestamp>1265043300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Really? I find my knowledge of chemistry helps a lot when designing data structures. Anybody who understands how organic chemistry works has a head start when it comes to understanding encapsulation, extension, and a lot of other concepts - because it makes you think not only about how things fit together but how external behaviour can be different from the inner content.<p>There's a distinction between "useful" as in "I know the solution of this differential equation", and "useful" as in "this has shown me a different way of thinking about things". The second on is actually more likely to be of benefit over the long term.</p><p>In fact, this thought is hardly original to me: it was expressed to us many years ago by our crystallography lecturer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really ?
I find my knowledge of chemistry helps a lot when designing data structures .
Anybody who understands how organic chemistry works has a head start when it comes to understanding encapsulation , extension , and a lot of other concepts - because it makes you think not only about how things fit together but how external behaviour can be different from the inner content.There 's a distinction between " useful " as in " I know the solution of this differential equation " , and " useful " as in " this has shown me a different way of thinking about things " .
The second on is actually more likely to be of benefit over the long term.In fact , this thought is hardly original to me : it was expressed to us many years ago by our crystallography lecturer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really?
I find my knowledge of chemistry helps a lot when designing data structures.
Anybody who understands how organic chemistry works has a head start when it comes to understanding encapsulation, extension, and a lot of other concepts - because it makes you think not only about how things fit together but how external behaviour can be different from the inner content.There's a distinction between "useful" as in "I know the solution of this differential equation", and "useful" as in "this has shown me a different way of thinking about things".
The second on is actually more likely to be of benefit over the long term.In fact, this thought is hardly original to me: it was expressed to us many years ago by our crystallography lecturer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979500</id>
	<title>My dog is your manager</title>
	<author>mangu</author>
	<datestamp>1265029920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.jankarlsbjerg.com/blog/images/2007/04/Dogbert\_whip.gif" title="jankarlsbjerg.com">You better obey him, or else</a> [jankarlsbjerg.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You better obey him , or else [ jankarlsbjerg.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You better obey him, or else [jankarlsbjerg.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978250</id>
	<title>My dog is smarter than your dog.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265057100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My dog is smarter than your dog.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My dog is smarter than your dog .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My dog is smarter than your dog.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979754</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265033280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I actually use 80\% of my EE degree.  It puts me way above the other programmers because I actually understand how the computer works and the other hardware works.</p><p>It's all how relative your career path and degree part are,  Programming and electronics are hand in hand.  Now my Chemistry degree,  that's not so useful... Unless I become a programmer at a chemical plant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I actually use 80 \ % of my EE degree .
It puts me way above the other programmers because I actually understand how the computer works and the other hardware works.It 's all how relative your career path and degree part are , Programming and electronics are hand in hand .
Now my Chemistry degree , that 's not so useful... Unless I become a programmer at a chemical plant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I actually use 80\% of my EE degree.
It puts me way above the other programmers because I actually understand how the computer works and the other hardware works.It's all how relative your career path and degree part are,  Programming and electronics are hand in hand.
Now my Chemistry degree,  that's not so useful... Unless I become a programmer at a chemical plant.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30981402</id>
	<title>Re:My dog is smarter than your dog.</title>
	<author>Sulphur</author>
	<datestamp>1265040900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My dog is a blue dog.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My dog is a blue dog .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My dog is a blue dog.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978286</id>
	<title>Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degrees</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265057400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>College degrees are way overrated. This is coming from someone with multiple degrees from MIT, Harvard, and Oxford.</p><p>College degrees have always been worthless the moment you joined the workforce and got your first day of actual working experience. It's always been worthless because the assclown with family connections will get the job over any random summa cum laude. The worthlessness is even worse since anything worth knowing is learned on the job and not in the classroom.</p><p>Consider this. Right now we are in a terrible recession. Many people are going back to school because they can't find a paying job. That means that in 3 year's time we will have a huge glut of people with advanced degrees fighting over the same pool of jobs. It's the same as always, only the requirements to play require a higher standard of education.</p><p>Or does it? Since experience and personal contacts mean much more than degrees, the earlier you can get a job, the better. Wasting your time in actual school taking actual classes is a net loser compared to getting a cheap diploma from a diploma mill and getting a paying job today.</p><p>I spent a lot of time to get my advanced degrees, but I have no illusions about their actual value. My real value comes from my work experience and successes in my field. Degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on. If you want one, you should do it for yourself, not for a job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>College degrees are way overrated .
This is coming from someone with multiple degrees from MIT , Harvard , and Oxford.College degrees have always been worthless the moment you joined the workforce and got your first day of actual working experience .
It 's always been worthless because the assclown with family connections will get the job over any random summa cum laude .
The worthlessness is even worse since anything worth knowing is learned on the job and not in the classroom.Consider this .
Right now we are in a terrible recession .
Many people are going back to school because they ca n't find a paying job .
That means that in 3 year 's time we will have a huge glut of people with advanced degrees fighting over the same pool of jobs .
It 's the same as always , only the requirements to play require a higher standard of education.Or does it ?
Since experience and personal contacts mean much more than degrees , the earlier you can get a job , the better .
Wasting your time in actual school taking actual classes is a net loser compared to getting a cheap diploma from a diploma mill and getting a paying job today.I spent a lot of time to get my advanced degrees , but I have no illusions about their actual value .
My real value comes from my work experience and successes in my field .
Degrees are n't worth the paper they are printed on .
If you want one , you should do it for yourself , not for a job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>College degrees are way overrated.
This is coming from someone with multiple degrees from MIT, Harvard, and Oxford.College degrees have always been worthless the moment you joined the workforce and got your first day of actual working experience.
It's always been worthless because the assclown with family connections will get the job over any random summa cum laude.
The worthlessness is even worse since anything worth knowing is learned on the job and not in the classroom.Consider this.
Right now we are in a terrible recession.
Many people are going back to school because they can't find a paying job.
That means that in 3 year's time we will have a huge glut of people with advanced degrees fighting over the same pool of jobs.
It's the same as always, only the requirements to play require a higher standard of education.Or does it?
Since experience and personal contacts mean much more than degrees, the earlier you can get a job, the better.
Wasting your time in actual school taking actual classes is a net loser compared to getting a cheap diploma from a diploma mill and getting a paying job today.I spent a lot of time to get my advanced degrees, but I have no illusions about their actual value.
My real value comes from my work experience and successes in my field.
Degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on.
If you want one, you should do it for yourself, not for a job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30980680</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265037720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, a degree is ultimately a bit of paper.</p><p>But, a human is ultimately a bit of meat that hasn't spoiled yet. So, that little bit of paper is what tells me that the bit of meat sitting in front of me will do some good work before it spoils.</p><p>Or, something like that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , a degree is ultimately a bit of paper.But , a human is ultimately a bit of meat that has n't spoiled yet .
So , that little bit of paper is what tells me that the bit of meat sitting in front of me will do some good work before it spoils.Or , something like that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, a degree is ultimately a bit of paper.But, a human is ultimately a bit of meat that hasn't spoiled yet.
So, that little bit of paper is what tells me that the bit of meat sitting in front of me will do some good work before it spoils.Or, something like that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30980876</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265038740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I know people with exactly the same degree I have who, frankly, I would never let near my children.</i></p><p>Yep, I know those kind, too; they work in state university health centres...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know people with exactly the same degree I have who , frankly , I would never let near my children.Yep , I know those kind , too ; they work in state university health centres.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know people with exactly the same degree I have who, frankly, I would never let near my children.Yep, I know those kind, too; they work in state university health centres...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978352</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30981644</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>SUB7IME</author>
	<datestamp>1265041860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No such thing. As the phrase goes, Yale men, Princeton boys, and Harvard scholars.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No such thing .
As the phrase goes , Yale men , Princeton boys , and Harvard scholars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No such thing.
As the phrase goes, Yale men, Princeton boys, and Harvard scholars.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979716</id>
	<title>Re:My dog is smarter than your dog.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265032800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My dog is smarter than you, dog.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My dog is smarter than you , dog .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My dog is smarter than you, dog.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978924</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265022660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pfft. I have a degree from Oxford (albeit only one). Still in touch with friends from that time, but in the 20 years since I've never used any "connections" for any "networking".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pfft .
I have a degree from Oxford ( albeit only one ) .
Still in touch with friends from that time , but in the 20 years since I 've never used any " connections " for any " networking " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pfft.
I have a degree from Oxford (albeit only one).
Still in touch with friends from that time, but in the 20 years since I've never used any "connections" for any "networking".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978784</id>
	<title>Two things...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265020560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One, the people going back to college, would probably have their time best spent at vocational and technical colleges, where they can learn skills.</p><p>Two, about those slackers, I don't know what to say. Did they cheat to get their degrees? Or did they forget a lot of what they learned due to not applying it?</p><p>The key to learning something isn't just learning it. It's also about applying it, and making sure you don't forget it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One , the people going back to college , would probably have their time best spent at vocational and technical colleges , where they can learn skills.Two , about those slackers , I do n't know what to say .
Did they cheat to get their degrees ?
Or did they forget a lot of what they learned due to not applying it ? The key to learning something is n't just learning it .
It 's also about applying it , and making sure you do n't forget it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One, the people going back to college, would probably have their time best spent at vocational and technical colleges, where they can learn skills.Two, about those slackers, I don't know what to say.
Did they cheat to get their degrees?
Or did they forget a lot of what they learned due to not applying it?The key to learning something isn't just learning it.
It's also about applying it, and making sure you don't forget it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978352</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979106</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265025240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For doctors, plummers, lawyers etc, yes, for IT&amp;C no.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For doctors , plummers , lawyers etc , yes , for IT&amp;C no .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For doctors, plummers, lawyers etc, yes, for IT&amp;C no.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978352</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30984454</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265053140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll bet you use your Chemistry degree more than you think.  A Physics degree taught me the valuable uses and differences between a theory and a hypothesis - which really helps reduce problem determination chaos.  Knowing what's "known" and what remains "unknown" and how to fit several hypotheses through the known points so you can weed out the theories that don't work.  The labs helped in risk assessment. (^\_^)</p><p>The EE degree has been helpful to understand interfaces and systems debugging by successive bisection.  The debugging one is easy: Cut your problem domain in half (or close) and see which end of the worm still wiggles.  Then cut the part that doesn't work in half; rinse and repeat until you're done.  Don't waste your time starting at the endpoint and guessing everything or worse, pointing fingers.</p><p>Interface politics/assessment is trickier: Don't always start with a hacked prototype and call that your interface; think ahead and hold to a good overall specification.  Avoid temptation to bend the spec when half your project folks are short on analyst months and the other has some time to rework to fit the newest hack.  It will complicate your support, increase spaghetti logic/workarounds, and hurt your next versions for years.</p><p>Given how many good folks I've worked with that have offbeat-for-IT degrees (and how many folks I know who did better after a career change), I think having a heterogeneous mix of degrees can help.  That includes IT-degreed folks in the business workforce, where they can bring a better understanding of the benefits of technology deeper in the field.</p><p>As for Mathematics, I haven't done a Laplace transform in years, but I've had to code FFTs.  Broader education usually helps - ka5vjl</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll bet you use your Chemistry degree more than you think .
A Physics degree taught me the valuable uses and differences between a theory and a hypothesis - which really helps reduce problem determination chaos .
Knowing what 's " known " and what remains " unknown " and how to fit several hypotheses through the known points so you can weed out the theories that do n't work .
The labs helped in risk assessment .
( ^ \ _ ^ ) The EE degree has been helpful to understand interfaces and systems debugging by successive bisection .
The debugging one is easy : Cut your problem domain in half ( or close ) and see which end of the worm still wiggles .
Then cut the part that does n't work in half ; rinse and repeat until you 're done .
Do n't waste your time starting at the endpoint and guessing everything or worse , pointing fingers.Interface politics/assessment is trickier : Do n't always start with a hacked prototype and call that your interface ; think ahead and hold to a good overall specification .
Avoid temptation to bend the spec when half your project folks are short on analyst months and the other has some time to rework to fit the newest hack .
It will complicate your support , increase spaghetti logic/workarounds , and hurt your next versions for years.Given how many good folks I 've worked with that have offbeat-for-IT degrees ( and how many folks I know who did better after a career change ) , I think having a heterogeneous mix of degrees can help .
That includes IT-degreed folks in the business workforce , where they can bring a better understanding of the benefits of technology deeper in the field.As for Mathematics , I have n't done a Laplace transform in years , but I 've had to code FFTs .
Broader education usually helps - ka5vjl</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll bet you use your Chemistry degree more than you think.
A Physics degree taught me the valuable uses and differences between a theory and a hypothesis - which really helps reduce problem determination chaos.
Knowing what's "known" and what remains "unknown" and how to fit several hypotheses through the known points so you can weed out the theories that don't work.
The labs helped in risk assessment.
(^\_^)The EE degree has been helpful to understand interfaces and systems debugging by successive bisection.
The debugging one is easy: Cut your problem domain in half (or close) and see which end of the worm still wiggles.
Then cut the part that doesn't work in half; rinse and repeat until you're done.
Don't waste your time starting at the endpoint and guessing everything or worse, pointing fingers.Interface politics/assessment is trickier: Don't always start with a hacked prototype and call that your interface; think ahead and hold to a good overall specification.
Avoid temptation to bend the spec when half your project folks are short on analyst months and the other has some time to rework to fit the newest hack.
It will complicate your support, increase spaghetti logic/workarounds, and hurt your next versions for years.Given how many good folks I've worked with that have offbeat-for-IT degrees (and how many folks I know who did better after a career change), I think having a heterogeneous mix of degrees can help.
That includes IT-degreed folks in the business workforce, where they can bring a better understanding of the benefits of technology deeper in the field.As for Mathematics, I haven't done a Laplace transform in years, but I've had to code FFTs.
Broader education usually helps - ka5vjl</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30979754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978848</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>JackieBrown</author>
	<datestamp>1265021460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>MIT was instrumental for me leaving the BuyMore and becoming a part of Roark Instruments.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MIT was instrumental for me leaving the BuyMore and becoming a part of Roark Instruments .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MIT was instrumental for me leaving the BuyMore and becoming a part of Roark Instruments.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30983012</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1265047200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Meanwhile, you're conflating being educated with having a degree. Some people are naturally self educating and will only be hindered by the college experience. Others have plenty of aptitude but find the structured learning of college to be very helpful or even essential. In the end, both end up well educated.</p><p>The other side of the coin is those who just blow the whole thing off or just go through the motions (memorize and forget) in college. Both of those end up without an education.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Meanwhile , you 're conflating being educated with having a degree .
Some people are naturally self educating and will only be hindered by the college experience .
Others have plenty of aptitude but find the structured learning of college to be very helpful or even essential .
In the end , both end up well educated.The other side of the coin is those who just blow the whole thing off or just go through the motions ( memorize and forget ) in college .
Both of those end up without an education .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meanwhile, you're conflating being educated with having a degree.
Some people are naturally self educating and will only be hindered by the college experience.
Others have plenty of aptitude but find the structured learning of college to be very helpful or even essential.
In the end, both end up well educated.The other side of the coin is those who just blow the whole thing off or just go through the motions (memorize and forget) in college.
Both of those end up without an education.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30984220</id>
	<title>Re:My dog is smarter than your dog.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265052060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>My dog is smarter than your dog.</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>My dog is smarter than your dog.</p></div><p>show me how it is smarter than mine</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My dog is smarter than your dog.My dog is smarter than your dog.show me how it is smarter than mine</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My dog is smarter than your dog.My dog is smarter than your dog.show me how it is smarter than mine
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978250</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30978922</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>Aceticon</author>
	<datestamp>1265022660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At the end of the day, the value of having a degree depends very much on which area of employment you are in.</p><p>I have a degree in Electronics Engineering and yet I work as a Software Engineer. In practical terms my degree only really helps me in two ways:<br>- The one major thing I learned from University was how to learn things fast. This can be used with anything - just recently I managed to learn ski from total newbie to intermediate/advanced level in 1 week - since the observational and analytical skills to do this are generic.<br>- It gives me a large pool of background knowledge which can help me deduce things faster in other areas: many patterns of "the way people make things" are applicable to all areas of human engineering.</p><p>However, 95\% of the information I learned for my degree is worthless for what I do now (with the notable exception of CPU design, things like Queue theory and some areas of Mathematics like statistics and numerical analysis).</p><p>The diploma itself was only usefull in getting me my first job: from then onwards my CV and the knowledge I display in interviews have been the things that matter.</p><p>The reason for this is that I work in IT. This area is still very much an Artisanship - it's practice is missing the predictability and repeatability which are the essential fundations for robust Engineering practices - and as such (outside Academia) proven hands-on experience is vastly more important than scholastic knowledge.</p><p>That said for many areas a degree is very important: how many of us would knowingly put the health of their children or the safety of their bridges to people that do not have a degree in the appropriate area?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At the end of the day , the value of having a degree depends very much on which area of employment you are in.I have a degree in Electronics Engineering and yet I work as a Software Engineer .
In practical terms my degree only really helps me in two ways : - The one major thing I learned from University was how to learn things fast .
This can be used with anything - just recently I managed to learn ski from total newbie to intermediate/advanced level in 1 week - since the observational and analytical skills to do this are generic.- It gives me a large pool of background knowledge which can help me deduce things faster in other areas : many patterns of " the way people make things " are applicable to all areas of human engineering.However , 95 \ % of the information I learned for my degree is worthless for what I do now ( with the notable exception of CPU design , things like Queue theory and some areas of Mathematics like statistics and numerical analysis ) .The diploma itself was only usefull in getting me my first job : from then onwards my CV and the knowledge I display in interviews have been the things that matter.The reason for this is that I work in IT .
This area is still very much an Artisanship - it 's practice is missing the predictability and repeatability which are the essential fundations for robust Engineering practices - and as such ( outside Academia ) proven hands-on experience is vastly more important than scholastic knowledge.That said for many areas a degree is very important : how many of us would knowingly put the health of their children or the safety of their bridges to people that do not have a degree in the appropriate area ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At the end of the day, the value of having a degree depends very much on which area of employment you are in.I have a degree in Electronics Engineering and yet I work as a Software Engineer.
In practical terms my degree only really helps me in two ways:- The one major thing I learned from University was how to learn things fast.
This can be used with anything - just recently I managed to learn ski from total newbie to intermediate/advanced level in 1 week - since the observational and analytical skills to do this are generic.- It gives me a large pool of background knowledge which can help me deduce things faster in other areas: many patterns of "the way people make things" are applicable to all areas of human engineering.However, 95\% of the information I learned for my degree is worthless for what I do now (with the notable exception of CPU design, things like Queue theory and some areas of Mathematics like statistics and numerical analysis).The diploma itself was only usefull in getting me my first job: from then onwards my CV and the knowledge I display in interviews have been the things that matter.The reason for this is that I work in IT.
This area is still very much an Artisanship - it's practice is missing the predictability and repeatability which are the essential fundations for robust Engineering practices - and as such (outside Academia) proven hands-on experience is vastly more important than scholastic knowledge.That said for many areas a degree is very important: how many of us would knowingly put the health of their children or the safety of their bridges to people that do not have a degree in the appropriate area?</sentencetext>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30980318</id>
	<title>Re:Diploma mills prove the worthlessness of degree</title>
	<author>tburkhol</author>
	<datestamp>1265036220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I learned more in my first 6 months in the workforce than I did in the classroom getting undergrad and master's degrees. It's not that you learn nothing, but that if you keep your eyes open you can get paid to learn more in 6 months than paying for years of college.</p></div><p>This depends on the assumption that you can freely choose between college and a paying job in your field of interest, and I think that is a false assumption.  There's no question that college and career teach very different skills.  Depending on your field you may never "use" any of the factual information you learn in college, or you may use the fundamental principles and skills every day.  Whichever, the degree is a way to distinguish yourself from the other 100 applicants to an entry level position.  It doesn't say you're qualified to dive right in an design the combustion chamber for a scramjet.  It doesn't say you're qualified to manage a team of phone drones.  It says you're able to stick with a project for 4 years with enough focus to show up most days and turn in assignments that someone can make sense of.  It's less a testament to ability than a denial of incompetence.  It gets you into the interview chair.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I learned more in my first 6 months in the workforce than I did in the classroom getting undergrad and master 's degrees .
It 's not that you learn nothing , but that if you keep your eyes open you can get paid to learn more in 6 months than paying for years of college.This depends on the assumption that you can freely choose between college and a paying job in your field of interest , and I think that is a false assumption .
There 's no question that college and career teach very different skills .
Depending on your field you may never " use " any of the factual information you learn in college , or you may use the fundamental principles and skills every day .
Whichever , the degree is a way to distinguish yourself from the other 100 applicants to an entry level position .
It does n't say you 're qualified to dive right in an design the combustion chamber for a scramjet .
It does n't say you 're qualified to manage a team of phone drones .
It says you 're able to stick with a project for 4 years with enough focus to show up most days and turn in assignments that someone can make sense of .
It 's less a testament to ability than a denial of incompetence .
It gets you into the interview chair .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I learned more in my first 6 months in the workforce than I did in the classroom getting undergrad and master's degrees.
It's not that you learn nothing, but that if you keep your eyes open you can get paid to learn more in 6 months than paying for years of college.This depends on the assumption that you can freely choose between college and a paying job in your field of interest, and I think that is a false assumption.
There's no question that college and career teach very different skills.
Depending on your field you may never "use" any of the factual information you learn in college, or you may use the fundamental principles and skills every day.
Whichever, the degree is a way to distinguish yourself from the other 100 applicants to an entry level position.
It doesn't say you're qualified to dive right in an design the combustion chamber for a scramjet.
It doesn't say you're qualified to manage a team of phone drones.
It says you're able to stick with a project for 4 years with enough focus to show up most days and turn in assignments that someone can make sense of.
It's less a testament to ability than a denial of incompetence.
It gets you into the interview chair.
	</sentencetext>
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--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30988620
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30980680
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30982844
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--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_02_01_064232.30992924
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