<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_31_2114242</id>
	<title>DIY Texting System For Really Underground Radio</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1264929840000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Gulthek writes <i>"Sixteen-year-old Alexander Kendrick has created a device that allows <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123116417&amp;ft=1&amp;f=1001">texting and other data transfer from almost 1000 feet underground</a>. The tech could allow rapid emergency communication with the surface and opens the potential for scientific measurements without the need to continually visit (and disturb) the cave environment."</i> There's some kvetching in the NPR story's  comments that it's not the first use of cave radios, but that seems to miss the point.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gulthek writes " Sixteen-year-old Alexander Kendrick has created a device that allows texting and other data transfer from almost 1000 feet underground .
The tech could allow rapid emergency communication with the surface and opens the potential for scientific measurements without the need to continually visit ( and disturb ) the cave environment .
" There 's some kvetching in the NPR story 's comments that it 's not the first use of cave radios , but that seems to miss the point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gulthek writes "Sixteen-year-old Alexander Kendrick has created a device that allows texting and other data transfer from almost 1000 feet underground.
The tech could allow rapid emergency communication with the surface and opens the potential for scientific measurements without the need to continually visit (and disturb) the cave environment.
" There's some kvetching in the NPR story's  comments that it's not the first use of cave radios, but that seems to miss the point.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30994330</id>
	<title>Re:Perspective of an actual caver-geek</title>
	<author>RockDoctor</author>
	<datestamp>1265121960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Very recently there have been people who went out for a day of caving and came back sans one member. See this story[http://cbs5.com/national/utah.cave.dealth.2.1337554.html]</p></div></blockquote><p>Hmmm, interesting. Another "Neil Moss" event. "Film," as the jargon-file entry goes, "at eleven." There are a number of "Neil Moss" concrete lumps scattered through the caves of Britain and I would safely assume Europe too. That America has them too is no surprise. One of my fellow cave-diving trainees made the mistake of bringing some suspicious bones out of the cave once<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... to be told by the local police : "Put them back where you found them, son. We know who they are, and the family don't need yet another batch of paperwork and another partial funeral." [Names and locations deliberately omitted. Well known in the sport.]</p><blockquote><div><p>FYI, There's NO FN WAY you'd get me to cave dive.</p></div></blockquote><p>Hmmm, typical stage 2 response :</p><ol> <li>You're a newbie ; you don't know what cave diving is, and it doesn't arouse strong emotion.</li><li>You're a reasonably experienced caver ; you've seen the roof disappear into the sump ; you've done some free diving ; you've lain on your back in that crawl and noticed the grass stems stuck to the roof. "No effin way!", as you say.</li><li>You're an experienced caver ; the darkness beckons ; you are afraid, very afraid.</li><li>You settle the gag in your mouth and let the water close over your head. The fear is still there, but it's just one more thing to be managed along with air, buoyancy, temperature, survey and line,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</li> </ol><p>Being a little more precise, I think that you're hearing the darkness beckon, and you're about to go from stage 2 to stage 3. Or you're trying to square your public claims of "hardness" with your fear of the darkness. Don't worry ; fear is rational ; no-one who matters will think the less of you for declining the opportunity (apart possibly from yourself). What people won't thank you for would be not getting proper training if you decide to start to bubble, as you sound enough a member of the caving fraternity to get the contacts you need.<br>If I see you down a cave somewhere, enjoy.</p><p>That reminds me - I've got to get rid of my bottles. (Out of test and very old, so not worth shipping.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Very recently there have been people who went out for a day of caving and came back sans one member .
See this story [ http : //cbs5.com/national/utah.cave.dealth.2.1337554.html ] Hmmm , interesting .
Another " Neil Moss " event .
" Film , " as the jargon-file entry goes , " at eleven .
" There are a number of " Neil Moss " concrete lumps scattered through the caves of Britain and I would safely assume Europe too .
That America has them too is no surprise .
One of my fellow cave-diving trainees made the mistake of bringing some suspicious bones out of the cave once ... to be told by the local police : " Put them back where you found them , son .
We know who they are , and the family do n't need yet another batch of paperwork and another partial funeral .
" [ Names and locations deliberately omitted .
Well known in the sport .
] FYI , There 's NO FN WAY you 'd get me to cave dive.Hmmm , typical stage 2 response : You 're a newbie ; you do n't know what cave diving is , and it does n't arouse strong emotion.You 're a reasonably experienced caver ; you 've seen the roof disappear into the sump ; you 've done some free diving ; you 've lain on your back in that crawl and noticed the grass stems stuck to the roof .
" No effin way !
" , as you say.You 're an experienced caver ; the darkness beckons ; you are afraid , very afraid.You settle the gag in your mouth and let the water close over your head .
The fear is still there , but it 's just one more thing to be managed along with air , buoyancy , temperature , survey and line , ... Being a little more precise , I think that you 're hearing the darkness beckon , and you 're about to go from stage 2 to stage 3 .
Or you 're trying to square your public claims of " hardness " with your fear of the darkness .
Do n't worry ; fear is rational ; no-one who matters will think the less of you for declining the opportunity ( apart possibly from yourself ) .
What people wo n't thank you for would be not getting proper training if you decide to start to bubble , as you sound enough a member of the caving fraternity to get the contacts you need.If I see you down a cave somewhere , enjoy.That reminds me - I 've got to get rid of my bottles .
( Out of test and very old , so not worth shipping .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Very recently there have been people who went out for a day of caving and came back sans one member.
See this story[http://cbs5.com/national/utah.cave.dealth.2.1337554.html]Hmmm, interesting.
Another "Neil Moss" event.
"Film," as the jargon-file entry goes, "at eleven.
" There are a number of "Neil Moss" concrete lumps scattered through the caves of Britain and I would safely assume Europe too.
That America has them too is no surprise.
One of my fellow cave-diving trainees made the mistake of bringing some suspicious bones out of the cave once ... to be told by the local police : "Put them back where you found them, son.
We know who they are, and the family don't need yet another batch of paperwork and another partial funeral.
" [Names and locations deliberately omitted.
Well known in the sport.
]FYI, There's NO FN WAY you'd get me to cave dive.Hmmm, typical stage 2 response : You're a newbie ; you don't know what cave diving is, and it doesn't arouse strong emotion.You're a reasonably experienced caver ; you've seen the roof disappear into the sump ; you've done some free diving ; you've lain on your back in that crawl and noticed the grass stems stuck to the roof.
"No effin way!
", as you say.You're an experienced caver ; the darkness beckons ; you are afraid, very afraid.You settle the gag in your mouth and let the water close over your head.
The fear is still there, but it's just one more thing to be managed along with air, buoyancy, temperature, survey and line, ... Being a little more precise, I think that you're hearing the darkness beckon, and you're about to go from stage 2 to stage 3.
Or you're trying to square your public claims of "hardness" with your fear of the darkness.
Don't worry ; fear is rational ; no-one who matters will think the less of you for declining the opportunity (apart possibly from yourself).
What people won't thank you for would be not getting proper training if you decide to start to bubble, as you sound enough a member of the caving fraternity to get the contacts you need.If I see you down a cave somewhere, enjoy.That reminds me - I've got to get rid of my bottles.
(Out of test and very old, so not worth shipping.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30975068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30977340</id>
	<title>Re:I've sat half way down Aquamole Aven</title>
	<author>Dare nMc</author>
	<datestamp>1264959180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>you'd never get an antenna like the one in the photo down a Yorkshire cave.</p></div><p>FYI the antenna as transported was several short sections of PVC and a roll of wire.  I have a hard time imaging a cave that is navigable by people that couldn't somehow shove say 1 meter sections of PVC into.  If your saying the caves never expands to a size greater than a 2m diameter cube, then I agree they couldn't set it up.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>you 'd never get an antenna like the one in the photo down a Yorkshire cave.FYI the antenna as transported was several short sections of PVC and a roll of wire .
I have a hard time imaging a cave that is navigable by people that could n't somehow shove say 1 meter sections of PVC into .
If your saying the caves never expands to a size greater than a 2m diameter cube , then I agree they could n't set it up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you'd never get an antenna like the one in the photo down a Yorkshire cave.FYI the antenna as transported was several short sections of PVC and a roll of wire.
I have a hard time imaging a cave that is navigable by people that couldn't somehow shove say 1 meter sections of PVC into.
If your saying the caves never expands to a size greater than a 2m diameter cube, then I agree they couldn't set it up.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30975068</id>
	<title>Perspective of an actual caver-geek</title>
	<author>Like2Byte</author>
	<datestamp>1264940760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First. I applaud this guy for making such a neat device. Listening to the story break on NPR this morning was rather captivating. The reporter made the device sound relatively small - something able to fit easily within a single cave-bag after disassembly. After seeing the antenna array, though, I thought my eyes would pop out of my head. There is no *way* a group of cavers are going to carry this contraption around *as it is*. It is certainly a prototype and the device certainly has merit but, for the sake of the device and the caver(s) carrying it, it is hoped (at least by me) that it becomes a lot smaller and still able to transmit/receive with the surface counterpart.</p><p>You see, a device as large as the one in the pictures on the webpage would be unwieldy in many, if not most, caves in the US as most US caves are not walking passage. In its current form it would suffer a lot of abuse and probably become submerged in water, covered in cave mud, bumped, sat on, kinked, bent, folded, dropped, hoisted, scraped and buffeted from a normal days wear and tear. If the antenna wire itself became broken trouble would certainly ensue. So, I don't see the current form of cave rescue going away any time soon. (The cave-trip leader has a designated person that did NOT go on the cave trip to call by a certain time. If the trip leader has not called that person by that time a cave rescue is supposed to be carried out.)</p><p>Don't get me wrong - this is a very cave-worthy pursuit and many a caver would feel better about having this technology along for the trip - as long as the equipment could withstand the journey. Otherwise, it's just more dead weight.</p><p>Second. For the story itself - caving is not 'relatively safe.' It's more along the lines of relatively dangerous. Why? Anyone entering a cave with the attitude of 'relatively safe' is bound to get hurt. Very recently there have been people who went out for a day of caving and came back sans one member. <a href="http://cbs5.com/national/utah.cave.dealth.2.1337554.html" title="cbs5.com">See this story</a> [cbs5.com]</p><p>I didn't know this guy but it seems arrogance killed him. Hate me for it if you have to but he went into a passage where 2 other people had to be rescued from years earlier. It's shameful that the cave owners/grotto overseeing the cave didn't have the foresight or fortitude to prevent future tragedies by closing that passage or making the cavers sign a form detailing that particular passage as off-limits. He died a slow death as hypothermia set in while he was upside down in a passage. He was supposed to be experienced. I heard about his story while he was still alive and I prayed that he could hold on long enough for a solution to extricate him could be found. I'm heartbroken and angry for his needless death.</p><p>Thirdly. One part of the radio broadcast that this story didn't relay is a story of the famous (or is it infamous) rescue of Emily Davis Mobley from Lechuguilla Cave very near Carlsbad, New Mexico. I think the broadcast mentioned that this (the Lechuguilla cave rescue) was the reason why he invented this device. (I remind you to see the above paragraph on caving being relatively safe. Still think so?)</p><p>You Tube of the rescue: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7I7bXcSWK8" title="youtube.com">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7I7bXcSWK8</a> [youtube.com]<br>Wikipedia Entry: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave\_rescue" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave\_rescue</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>Fourth. If you want to know more about caving visit Emily's website: <a href="http://www.speleobooks.com/" title="speleobooks.com">http://www.speleobooks.com/</a> [speleobooks.com]</p><p>Finally: If you still don't believe me that caving is dangerous just you try cave diving. Near 100\% fatality rate where 'accidents' have occurred. The rule of thumb is is something goes wrong while cave diving - you have two minutes to live.</p><p>Here's the official website for caving accidents in the Americas - <a href="http://www.caves.org/pub/aca/" title="caves.org">http://www.caves.org/pub/aca/</a> [caves.org]</p><p>FYI, There's NO FN WAY you'd get me to cave dive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First .
I applaud this guy for making such a neat device .
Listening to the story break on NPR this morning was rather captivating .
The reporter made the device sound relatively small - something able to fit easily within a single cave-bag after disassembly .
After seeing the antenna array , though , I thought my eyes would pop out of my head .
There is no * way * a group of cavers are going to carry this contraption around * as it is * .
It is certainly a prototype and the device certainly has merit but , for the sake of the device and the caver ( s ) carrying it , it is hoped ( at least by me ) that it becomes a lot smaller and still able to transmit/receive with the surface counterpart.You see , a device as large as the one in the pictures on the webpage would be unwieldy in many , if not most , caves in the US as most US caves are not walking passage .
In its current form it would suffer a lot of abuse and probably become submerged in water , covered in cave mud , bumped , sat on , kinked , bent , folded , dropped , hoisted , scraped and buffeted from a normal days wear and tear .
If the antenna wire itself became broken trouble would certainly ensue .
So , I do n't see the current form of cave rescue going away any time soon .
( The cave-trip leader has a designated person that did NOT go on the cave trip to call by a certain time .
If the trip leader has not called that person by that time a cave rescue is supposed to be carried out .
) Do n't get me wrong - this is a very cave-worthy pursuit and many a caver would feel better about having this technology along for the trip - as long as the equipment could withstand the journey .
Otherwise , it 's just more dead weight.Second .
For the story itself - caving is not 'relatively safe .
' It 's more along the lines of relatively dangerous .
Why ? Anyone entering a cave with the attitude of 'relatively safe ' is bound to get hurt .
Very recently there have been people who went out for a day of caving and came back sans one member .
See this story [ cbs5.com ] I did n't know this guy but it seems arrogance killed him .
Hate me for it if you have to but he went into a passage where 2 other people had to be rescued from years earlier .
It 's shameful that the cave owners/grotto overseeing the cave did n't have the foresight or fortitude to prevent future tragedies by closing that passage or making the cavers sign a form detailing that particular passage as off-limits .
He died a slow death as hypothermia set in while he was upside down in a passage .
He was supposed to be experienced .
I heard about his story while he was still alive and I prayed that he could hold on long enough for a solution to extricate him could be found .
I 'm heartbroken and angry for his needless death.Thirdly .
One part of the radio broadcast that this story did n't relay is a story of the famous ( or is it infamous ) rescue of Emily Davis Mobley from Lechuguilla Cave very near Carlsbad , New Mexico .
I think the broadcast mentioned that this ( the Lechuguilla cave rescue ) was the reason why he invented this device .
( I remind you to see the above paragraph on caving being relatively safe .
Still think so ?
) You Tube of the rescue : http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = J7I7bXcSWK8 [ youtube.com ] Wikipedia Entry : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave \ _rescue [ wikipedia.org ] Fourth .
If you want to know more about caving visit Emily 's website : http : //www.speleobooks.com/ [ speleobooks.com ] Finally : If you still do n't believe me that caving is dangerous just you try cave diving .
Near 100 \ % fatality rate where 'accidents ' have occurred .
The rule of thumb is is something goes wrong while cave diving - you have two minutes to live.Here 's the official website for caving accidents in the Americas - http : //www.caves.org/pub/aca/ [ caves.org ] FYI , There 's NO FN WAY you 'd get me to cave dive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First.
I applaud this guy for making such a neat device.
Listening to the story break on NPR this morning was rather captivating.
The reporter made the device sound relatively small - something able to fit easily within a single cave-bag after disassembly.
After seeing the antenna array, though, I thought my eyes would pop out of my head.
There is no *way* a group of cavers are going to carry this contraption around *as it is*.
It is certainly a prototype and the device certainly has merit but, for the sake of the device and the caver(s) carrying it, it is hoped (at least by me) that it becomes a lot smaller and still able to transmit/receive with the surface counterpart.You see, a device as large as the one in the pictures on the webpage would be unwieldy in many, if not most, caves in the US as most US caves are not walking passage.
In its current form it would suffer a lot of abuse and probably become submerged in water, covered in cave mud, bumped, sat on, kinked, bent, folded, dropped, hoisted, scraped and buffeted from a normal days wear and tear.
If the antenna wire itself became broken trouble would certainly ensue.
So, I don't see the current form of cave rescue going away any time soon.
(The cave-trip leader has a designated person that did NOT go on the cave trip to call by a certain time.
If the trip leader has not called that person by that time a cave rescue is supposed to be carried out.
)Don't get me wrong - this is a very cave-worthy pursuit and many a caver would feel better about having this technology along for the trip - as long as the equipment could withstand the journey.
Otherwise, it's just more dead weight.Second.
For the story itself - caving is not 'relatively safe.
' It's more along the lines of relatively dangerous.
Why? Anyone entering a cave with the attitude of 'relatively safe' is bound to get hurt.
Very recently there have been people who went out for a day of caving and came back sans one member.
See this story [cbs5.com]I didn't know this guy but it seems arrogance killed him.
Hate me for it if you have to but he went into a passage where 2 other people had to be rescued from years earlier.
It's shameful that the cave owners/grotto overseeing the cave didn't have the foresight or fortitude to prevent future tragedies by closing that passage or making the cavers sign a form detailing that particular passage as off-limits.
He died a slow death as hypothermia set in while he was upside down in a passage.
He was supposed to be experienced.
I heard about his story while he was still alive and I prayed that he could hold on long enough for a solution to extricate him could be found.
I'm heartbroken and angry for his needless death.Thirdly.
One part of the radio broadcast that this story didn't relay is a story of the famous (or is it infamous) rescue of Emily Davis Mobley from Lechuguilla Cave very near Carlsbad, New Mexico.
I think the broadcast mentioned that this (the Lechuguilla cave rescue) was the reason why he invented this device.
(I remind you to see the above paragraph on caving being relatively safe.
Still think so?
)You Tube of the rescue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7I7bXcSWK8 [youtube.com]Wikipedia Entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave\_rescue [wikipedia.org]Fourth.
If you want to know more about caving visit Emily's website: http://www.speleobooks.com/ [speleobooks.com]Finally: If you still don't believe me that caving is dangerous just you try cave diving.
Near 100\% fatality rate where 'accidents' have occurred.
The rule of thumb is is something goes wrong while cave diving - you have two minutes to live.Here's the official website for caving accidents in the Americas - http://www.caves.org/pub/aca/ [caves.org]FYI, There's NO FN WAY you'd get me to cave dive.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30980672</id>
	<title>Re:Great Tech, shame the antenna's so big</title>
	<author>braindrainbahrain</author>
	<datestamp>1265037720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Methinks that antenna looks like the fabled <a href="http://www.vlf.it/octoloop/rlt-n4ywk.htm" title="www.vlf.it" rel="nofollow">Octoloop </a> [www.vlf.it] (look about 3/4 down the page).  Granted, it provides some useful antenna gain, but another disadvantage (in addition to its' large size), is that it has a very narrow beamwidth. This would restrict reception on the surface to a very specific location which would be hard to determine in a rescue situation if the rescueres don't know where the transmitter is located.</p><p>None-the-less, there is probably some niche applications for this (fault monitoring?) and I wish the inventor student the best of luck.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Methinks that antenna looks like the fabled Octoloop [ www.vlf.it ] ( look about 3/4 down the page ) .
Granted , it provides some useful antenna gain , but another disadvantage ( in addition to its ' large size ) , is that it has a very narrow beamwidth .
This would restrict reception on the surface to a very specific location which would be hard to determine in a rescue situation if the rescueres do n't know where the transmitter is located.None-the-less , there is probably some niche applications for this ( fault monitoring ?
) and I wish the inventor student the best of luck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Methinks that antenna looks like the fabled Octoloop  [www.vlf.it] (look about 3/4 down the page).
Granted, it provides some useful antenna gain, but another disadvantage (in addition to its' large size), is that it has a very narrow beamwidth.
This would restrict reception on the surface to a very specific location which would be hard to determine in a rescue situation if the rescueres don't know where the transmitter is located.None-the-less, there is probably some niche applications for this (fault monitoring?
) and I wish the inventor student the best of luck.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30977120</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30976770</id>
	<title>Ground Communications</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264953300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Never mind that Hams used PSK31 (eg Digital coms) and Audio frequencies to communicate 30 km via Ground Currents some ten years ago...</p><p>This is pretty routine stuff...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Never mind that Hams used PSK31 ( eg Digital coms ) and Audio frequencies to communicate 30 km via Ground Currents some ten years ago...This is pretty routine stuff.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Never mind that Hams used PSK31 (eg Digital coms) and Audio frequencies to communicate 30 km via Ground Currents some ten years ago...This is pretty routine stuff...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30984414</id>
	<title>The etymology of "aven"</title>
	<author>silverspell</author>
	<datestamp>1265052900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was curious too, so:<br> <br>

"Aven" is a French loanword, though it doesn't show up in my little French dictionary, or in the Oxford English Dictionary for that matter.  But I found a French-language online dictionary that basically says it's a natural well (<i>"puits"</i>) found in limestone.  Apparently it's a loanword in French as well, taken from the Rouergat (?) dialect of the Occitan language.<br> <br>

I glanced at a few English-language caving publications which translate "aven" as "big cavern", "cathedral", "sinkhole", "shaft", or "abyss".  (That last one seems a little suspect, since there's already a French word for "abyss", <i>ab&#238;me</i>.)<br> <br>

Confusingly, a lot of these words have water-related cognates.  "Aven" apparently also means "river" in Breton, and in English a "puit" can be a well or a stream.<br> <br>

(Disclaimer: IANA linguist.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was curious too , so : " Aven " is a French loanword , though it does n't show up in my little French dictionary , or in the Oxford English Dictionary for that matter .
But I found a French-language online dictionary that basically says it 's a natural well ( " puits " ) found in limestone .
Apparently it 's a loanword in French as well , taken from the Rouergat ( ?
) dialect of the Occitan language .
I glanced at a few English-language caving publications which translate " aven " as " big cavern " , " cathedral " , " sinkhole " , " shaft " , or " abyss " .
( That last one seems a little suspect , since there 's already a French word for " abyss " , ab   me .
) Confusingly , a lot of these words have water-related cognates .
" Aven " apparently also means " river " in Breton , and in English a " puit " can be a well or a stream .
( Disclaimer : IANA linguist .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was curious too, so: 

"Aven" is a French loanword, though it doesn't show up in my little French dictionary, or in the Oxford English Dictionary for that matter.
But I found a French-language online dictionary that basically says it's a natural well ("puits") found in limestone.
Apparently it's a loanword in French as well, taken from the Rouergat (?
) dialect of the Occitan language.
I glanced at a few English-language caving publications which translate "aven" as "big cavern", "cathedral", "sinkhole", "shaft", or "abyss".
(That last one seems a little suspect, since there's already a French word for "abyss", abîme.
) 

Confusingly, a lot of these words have water-related cognates.
"Aven" apparently also means "river" in Breton, and in English a "puit" can be a well or a stream.
(Disclaimer: IANA linguist.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30978404</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974622</id>
	<title>I've sat half way down Aquamole Aven</title>
	<author>alanw</author>
	<datestamp>1264937580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>for half an hour with a transmitter waiting for my friends on the surface to radio-locate the position on the surface vertically above me.</p><p>The transmitter fits in a 6 inch diameter tube - you'd never get an antenna like the one in the photo down a Yorkshire cave. The one used on the surface is much bigger, though.</p><p>The next project is to produce a cheap transmitter that a cave diver can carry into an aven and leave (they don't want to have to hang around), in the hope that once located a dig can be done from the surface directly above.</p><p>Here's a  links to a UK cave radio web site<br><a href="http://caves.org.uk/radio/" title="caves.org.uk">http://caves.org.uk/radio/</a> [caves.org.uk]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>for half an hour with a transmitter waiting for my friends on the surface to radio-locate the position on the surface vertically above me.The transmitter fits in a 6 inch diameter tube - you 'd never get an antenna like the one in the photo down a Yorkshire cave .
The one used on the surface is much bigger , though.The next project is to produce a cheap transmitter that a cave diver can carry into an aven and leave ( they do n't want to have to hang around ) , in the hope that once located a dig can be done from the surface directly above.Here 's a links to a UK cave radio web sitehttp : //caves.org.uk/radio/ [ caves.org.uk ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for half an hour with a transmitter waiting for my friends on the surface to radio-locate the position on the surface vertically above me.The transmitter fits in a 6 inch diameter tube - you'd never get an antenna like the one in the photo down a Yorkshire cave.
The one used on the surface is much bigger, though.The next project is to produce a cheap transmitter that a cave diver can carry into an aven and leave (they don't want to have to hang around), in the hope that once located a dig can be done from the surface directly above.Here's a  links to a UK cave radio web sitehttp://caves.org.uk/radio/ [caves.org.uk]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974214</id>
	<title>Sounds familiar</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264935000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It sounds a bit like ELF. The problem with really low frequencies is you can't transmit large amounts of data and they require larger antennas. The military's ELF arrays are massive and are only good for launch codes. That's the reason he's talking about text messaging. A smaller antenna like he's holding could take a considerable amount of time to transmit even a paragraph of information. It might be okay for scientific equipment but I doubt it'll be practical for much else. There's nothing earth shattering here, it's been done at least since Tesla's time. The reason it was never pursed is there are practical limits and minimal commercial value in the technology.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds a bit like ELF .
The problem with really low frequencies is you ca n't transmit large amounts of data and they require larger antennas .
The military 's ELF arrays are massive and are only good for launch codes .
That 's the reason he 's talking about text messaging .
A smaller antenna like he 's holding could take a considerable amount of time to transmit even a paragraph of information .
It might be okay for scientific equipment but I doubt it 'll be practical for much else .
There 's nothing earth shattering here , it 's been done at least since Tesla 's time .
The reason it was never pursed is there are practical limits and minimal commercial value in the technology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sounds a bit like ELF.
The problem with really low frequencies is you can't transmit large amounts of data and they require larger antennas.
The military's ELF arrays are massive and are only good for launch codes.
That's the reason he's talking about text messaging.
A smaller antenna like he's holding could take a considerable amount of time to transmit even a paragraph of information.
It might be okay for scientific equipment but I doubt it'll be practical for much else.
There's nothing earth shattering here, it's been done at least since Tesla's time.
The reason it was never pursed is there are practical limits and minimal commercial value in the technology.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30976242</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't just apply to caving I expect.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264948320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>No one has yet answered the Coal Mining Location Challenge:

<a href="http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/location\_challenge.html" title="wearablesmartsensors.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/location\_challenge.html</a> [wearablesmartsensors.com]

The is a much harder problem to solve than most people think, as explained at the link.
The first thought is always "Use GPS".  GPS does not work underground... etc.

Range is an issue because Coal absorbs most radio waves.  There are also limitations are power due to Intrinsic Safety Regulations.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No one has yet answered the Coal Mining Location Challenge : http : //www.wearablesmartsensors.com/location \ _challenge.html [ wearablesmartsensors.com ] The is a much harder problem to solve than most people think , as explained at the link .
The first thought is always " Use GPS " .
GPS does not work underground... etc . Range is an issue because Coal absorbs most radio waves .
There are also limitations are power due to Intrinsic Safety Regulations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No one has yet answered the Coal Mining Location Challenge:

http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/location\_challenge.html [wearablesmartsensors.com]

The is a much harder problem to solve than most people think, as explained at the link.
The first thought is always "Use GPS".
GPS does not work underground... etc.

Range is an issue because Coal absorbs most radio waves.
There are also limitations are power due to Intrinsic Safety Regulations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30973984</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974016</id>
	<title>Lights Out</title>
	<author>Eminor</author>
	<datestamp>1264934040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lights Out guerilla radio<br>turn that shit up</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lights Out guerilla radioturn that shit up</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lights Out guerilla radioturn that shit up</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30976378</id>
	<title>Re:Cave Rescue/Emily</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264949220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ah, Emily, a real nice gal.
</p><p>Several of my Caving friends were involved in her "rescue".
</p><p>My sweety and I gave her a party at our house on the one year anniversary of her <a href="http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20114947,00.html" title="people.com" rel="nofollow">rescue</a> [people.com].
</p><p>I had been exploring the Fubar Passage in nearly the same spot in Lech where the rock peeled away from the wall and almost crunched her <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7I7bXcSWK8" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow"> <i>(breaking her leg)</i> </a> [youtube.com] on an expedition six months before, I had a narrow escape with a BIG rock peeling from the wall there as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah , Emily , a real nice gal .
Several of my Caving friends were involved in her " rescue " .
My sweety and I gave her a party at our house on the one year anniversary of her rescue [ people.com ] .
I had been exploring the Fubar Passage in nearly the same spot in Lech where the rock peeled away from the wall and almost crunched her ( breaking her leg ) [ youtube.com ] on an expedition six months before , I had a narrow escape with a BIG rock peeling from the wall there as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah, Emily, a real nice gal.
Several of my Caving friends were involved in her "rescue".
My sweety and I gave her a party at our house on the one year anniversary of her rescue [people.com].
I had been exploring the Fubar Passage in nearly the same spot in Lech where the rock peeled away from the wall and almost crunched her  (breaking her leg)  [youtube.com] on an expedition six months before, I had a narrow escape with a BIG rock peeling from the wall there as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30975174</id>
	<title>Morse Code</title>
	<author>greenlead</author>
	<datestamp>1264941420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Carrier Wave (Morse code) would be way more useful than packet for rescue work. The only issue is that the splunkers would need to learn it.

CW is a simple on/off sequence. It travels far, and is understandable even with a noisy signal.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Carrier Wave ( Morse code ) would be way more useful than packet for rescue work .
The only issue is that the splunkers would need to learn it .
CW is a simple on/off sequence .
It travels far , and is understandable even with a noisy signal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Carrier Wave (Morse code) would be way more useful than packet for rescue work.
The only issue is that the splunkers would need to learn it.
CW is a simple on/off sequence.
It travels far, and is understandable even with a noisy signal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974556</id>
	<title>What am I missing here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264937160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Developed by Los Alamos National Laboratory, the Through-The-Earth Communication system proved capable of sending two-way, very-low-frequency (VLF) voice signals from the surface of the mine to depths exceeding 300 feet at the experimental mine operated by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH).</i></p><p><i>The Through-The-Earth Communication system was developed for the U.S. Department of Energy at Los Alamos National Laboratory's Superconductivity Technology Center with a development team led by David Reagor. The technology has also earned a prestigious R&amp;D 100 Award from R&amp;D magazine.</i></p><p><i>The system uses VLF electromagnetic radiation in the range of 3 to 30 kilohertz (kHz) and digital audio compression to transmit wireless voice and data signals through the earth. Materials that block higher radio frequency (RF) signals, such as rock, concrete, metal, and high-density ore bodies, do not restrict its signal</i></p><p><i>Incorporating Sprint/Nextel i325 mobile phones, supported by Raytheon's JPS Communications ACU 1000 cross-band repeaters, the Through-The-Earth Communication system demonstrated its capabilities in the Lake Lynn Mine, which is composed of several long tunnels used for mine safety experiments. The mine consists of nonflammable limestone with a tunnel height of about 10 feet and an overburden of up to 370 feet.</i> <a href="http://www.wirelessnetworksonline.com/article.mvc/Test-Of-Through-The-Earth-Communication-Syste-0001?VNETCOOKIE=NO" title="wirelessne...online.com">Test Of Through-The-Earth Communication System Exceeds Expectations</a> [wirelessne...online.com] [August 2007]</p><p>VLF appeals to radio hobbyists because of its exotic associations with both natural science and submarine warfare. To get started all you really need is a PC and a home-made antenna. <a href="http://www.vlf.it/" title="www.vlf.it">Radio Waves Below 22 Hz</a> [www.vlf.it]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Developed by Los Alamos National Laboratory , the Through-The-Earth Communication system proved capable of sending two-way , very-low-frequency ( VLF ) voice signals from the surface of the mine to depths exceeding 300 feet at the experimental mine operated by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health ( NIOSH ) .The Through-The-Earth Communication system was developed for the U.S. Department of Energy at Los Alamos National Laboratory 's Superconductivity Technology Center with a development team led by David Reagor .
The technology has also earned a prestigious R&amp;D 100 Award from R&amp;D magazine.The system uses VLF electromagnetic radiation in the range of 3 to 30 kilohertz ( kHz ) and digital audio compression to transmit wireless voice and data signals through the earth .
Materials that block higher radio frequency ( RF ) signals , such as rock , concrete , metal , and high-density ore bodies , do not restrict its signalIncorporating Sprint/Nextel i325 mobile phones , supported by Raytheon 's JPS Communications ACU 1000 cross-band repeaters , the Through-The-Earth Communication system demonstrated its capabilities in the Lake Lynn Mine , which is composed of several long tunnels used for mine safety experiments .
The mine consists of nonflammable limestone with a tunnel height of about 10 feet and an overburden of up to 370 feet .
Test Of Through-The-Earth Communication System Exceeds Expectations [ wirelessne...online.com ] [ August 2007 ] VLF appeals to radio hobbyists because of its exotic associations with both natural science and submarine warfare .
To get started all you really need is a PC and a home-made antenna .
Radio Waves Below 22 Hz [ www.vlf.it ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Developed by Los Alamos National Laboratory, the Through-The-Earth Communication system proved capable of sending two-way, very-low-frequency (VLF) voice signals from the surface of the mine to depths exceeding 300 feet at the experimental mine operated by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH).The Through-The-Earth Communication system was developed for the U.S. Department of Energy at Los Alamos National Laboratory's Superconductivity Technology Center with a development team led by David Reagor.
The technology has also earned a prestigious R&amp;D 100 Award from R&amp;D magazine.The system uses VLF electromagnetic radiation in the range of 3 to 30 kilohertz (kHz) and digital audio compression to transmit wireless voice and data signals through the earth.
Materials that block higher radio frequency (RF) signals, such as rock, concrete, metal, and high-density ore bodies, do not restrict its signalIncorporating Sprint/Nextel i325 mobile phones, supported by Raytheon's JPS Communications ACU 1000 cross-band repeaters, the Through-The-Earth Communication system demonstrated its capabilities in the Lake Lynn Mine, which is composed of several long tunnels used for mine safety experiments.
The mine consists of nonflammable limestone with a tunnel height of about 10 feet and an overburden of up to 370 feet.
Test Of Through-The-Earth Communication System Exceeds Expectations [wirelessne...online.com] [August 2007]VLF appeals to radio hobbyists because of its exotic associations with both natural science and submarine warfare.
To get started all you really need is a PC and a home-made antenna.
Radio Waves Below 22 Hz [www.vlf.it]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30975140</id>
	<title>Big Deal.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264941120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It sounds like he is using packet on HF. It is unfortunate that the article mentioned HF as being used for FM broadcast (that would be VHF). Amateur radio operators have been doing stuff like for a very long time. Big deal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds like he is using packet on HF .
It is unfortunate that the article mentioned HF as being used for FM broadcast ( that would be VHF ) .
Amateur radio operators have been doing stuff like for a very long time .
Big deal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sounds like he is using packet on HF.
It is unfortunate that the article mentioned HF as being used for FM broadcast (that would be VHF).
Amateur radio operators have been doing stuff like for a very long time.
Big deal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.31001524</id>
	<title>Saw this kid at ISEF '09</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265106960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's really cool that a news article finally came out about this kid.  Some crazy science went into making this.  Very cool.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's really cool that a news article finally came out about this kid .
Some crazy science went into making this .
Very cool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's really cool that a news article finally came out about this kid.
Some crazy science went into making this.
Very cool.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30978170</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't just apply to caving I expect.</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1265055720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>No one has yet answered the Coal Mining Location Challenge: <a href="http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/location\_challenge.html" title="wearablesmartsensors.com">http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/location\_challenge.html</a> [wearablesmartsensors.com]</p></div> </blockquote><p>I doubt anyone has really tried.  The 'challenge' is on an obscure website, the 'challenger' cannot clearly be indentified, and the bits about 'pseudo science merely being science a few years ahead of the mainstream' are just weird.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No one has yet answered the Coal Mining Location Challenge : http : //www.wearablesmartsensors.com/location \ _challenge.html [ wearablesmartsensors.com ] I doubt anyone has really tried .
The 'challenge ' is on an obscure website , the 'challenger ' can not clearly be indentified , and the bits about 'pseudo science merely being science a few years ahead of the mainstream ' are just weird .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No one has yet answered the Coal Mining Location Challenge: http://www.wearablesmartsensors.com/location\_challenge.html [wearablesmartsensors.com] I doubt anyone has really tried.
The 'challenge' is on an obscure website, the 'challenger' cannot clearly be indentified, and the bits about 'pseudo science merely being science a few years ahead of the mainstream' are just weird.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30976242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30973892</id>
	<title>Pesky child...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264933500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Damnable overachievers...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Damnable overachievers.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Damnable overachievers...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974270</id>
	<title>Cave Rescue</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264935240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext> "In a 1991 New Mexico cave rescue, it took 170 people four days to save a woman with a broken leg. The rescue team had to lay miles of telephone line in order to stay in touch with the surface."

"If they'd had Kendrick's radio, the rescue time may have been cut in half."

When we go caving, especially a new one, or a rescue, Who wastes time laying phone wire? Teams are two, each with a different colour string with a wire core for added strength. This way we can follow different pipes simultaneously if its a complex cave.

If two can get them out we do. Otherwise one stays one goes back. With all the gear we have who wants to be carrying  all this stuff. If it can be made smaller the better.
I guess my point is more about the Mexico rescue thing.

Cool Idea kid!</htmltext>
<tokenext>" In a 1991 New Mexico cave rescue , it took 170 people four days to save a woman with a broken leg .
The rescue team had to lay miles of telephone line in order to stay in touch with the surface .
" " If they 'd had Kendrick 's radio , the rescue time may have been cut in half .
" When we go caving , especially a new one , or a rescue , Who wastes time laying phone wire ?
Teams are two , each with a different colour string with a wire core for added strength .
This way we can follow different pipes simultaneously if its a complex cave .
If two can get them out we do .
Otherwise one stays one goes back .
With all the gear we have who wants to be carrying all this stuff .
If it can be made smaller the better .
I guess my point is more about the Mexico rescue thing .
Cool Idea kid !</tokentext>
<sentencetext> "In a 1991 New Mexico cave rescue, it took 170 people four days to save a woman with a broken leg.
The rescue team had to lay miles of telephone line in order to stay in touch with the surface.
"

"If they'd had Kendrick's radio, the rescue time may have been cut in half.
"

When we go caving, especially a new one, or a rescue, Who wastes time laying phone wire?
Teams are two, each with a different colour string with a wire core for added strength.
This way we can follow different pipes simultaneously if its a complex cave.
If two can get them out we do.
Otherwise one stays one goes back.
With all the gear we have who wants to be carrying  all this stuff.
If it can be made smaller the better.
I guess my point is more about the Mexico rescue thing.
Cool Idea kid!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30978834</id>
	<title>so what you're saying is</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1265021280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>caving is relatively safe</p><p>(sorry, couldn't resist)</p><p>my dad was an avid spelunker before i was born. thank god/darwin he kept the relative danger to a minimum, or i wouldn't be here</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>caving is relatively safe ( sorry , could n't resist ) my dad was an avid spelunker before i was born .
thank god/darwin he kept the relative danger to a minimum , or i would n't be here</tokentext>
<sentencetext>caving is relatively safe(sorry, couldn't resist)my dad was an avid spelunker before i was born.
thank god/darwin he kept the relative danger to a minimum, or i wouldn't be here</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30975068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.31001394</id>
	<title>Re:Then what is the point?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265106120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>(imagine: "person has 3 hours to live" instead of "30 hours")</i> </p><p>Yeah, I'm sure no one would think of repeating anything critical like numbers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>( imagine : " person has 3 hours to live " instead of " 30 hours " ) Yeah , I 'm sure no one would think of repeating anything critical like numbers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(imagine: "person has 3 hours to live" instead of "30 hours") Yeah, I'm sure no one would think of repeating anything critical like numbers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30975960</id>
	<title>Just run a damn cable ...</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1264946160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously.</p><p>If you're leaving a sensor in a cave or mine to gather data, its going to be there a while.  Take a spool of wire with you on the way in and just hard wire the thing for data and power.</p><p>Wireless is rarely the right way to do things, especially stationary things.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously.If you 're leaving a sensor in a cave or mine to gather data , its going to be there a while .
Take a spool of wire with you on the way in and just hard wire the thing for data and power.Wireless is rarely the right way to do things , especially stationary things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously.If you're leaving a sensor in a cave or mine to gather data, its going to be there a while.
Take a spool of wire with you on the way in and just hard wire the thing for data and power.Wireless is rarely the right way to do things, especially stationary things.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30981568</id>
	<title>Re:Perspective of an actual caver-geek</title>
	<author>jc79</author>
	<datestamp>1265041500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I didn't know this guy but it seems arrogance killed him. Hate me for it if you have to but he went into a passage where 2 other people had to be rescued from years earlier. It's shameful that the cave owners/grotto overseeing the cave didn't have the foresight or fortitude to prevent future tragedies by closing that passage or making the cavers sign a form detailing that particular passage as off-limits</p> </div><p>I'm a professional outdoor activities instructor, and I've had friends who've died while participating recreationally in the sports they love. It's an accepted part of what we do. Surely it's up to an individual to assess the risks themselves and make judgements on what they consider acceptable. Why should the cave owners be considered responsible for someone's safety? "Volenti non fit injuria" - ie if you know the risks and do it anyway, you've only yourself to blame when you get hurt..</p><p>I'm not a caver,. but I assume in the US, information about particular caves is disseminated through the community on much the same way as in the UK (guidebooks, internet etc). It should be easy enough to find out before entering a cave if a certain passage is dangerous or not. It shouldn't be up to the cave owners to require everyone to sign a form or modify the cave to prevent people choosing to go that way.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I did n't know this guy but it seems arrogance killed him .
Hate me for it if you have to but he went into a passage where 2 other people had to be rescued from years earlier .
It 's shameful that the cave owners/grotto overseeing the cave did n't have the foresight or fortitude to prevent future tragedies by closing that passage or making the cavers sign a form detailing that particular passage as off-limits I 'm a professional outdoor activities instructor , and I 've had friends who 've died while participating recreationally in the sports they love .
It 's an accepted part of what we do .
Surely it 's up to an individual to assess the risks themselves and make judgements on what they consider acceptable .
Why should the cave owners be considered responsible for someone 's safety ?
" Volenti non fit injuria " - ie if you know the risks and do it anyway , you 've only yourself to blame when you get hurt..I 'm not a caver, .
but I assume in the US , information about particular caves is disseminated through the community on much the same way as in the UK ( guidebooks , internet etc ) .
It should be easy enough to find out before entering a cave if a certain passage is dangerous or not .
It should n't be up to the cave owners to require everyone to sign a form or modify the cave to prevent people choosing to go that way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I didn't know this guy but it seems arrogance killed him.
Hate me for it if you have to but he went into a passage where 2 other people had to be rescued from years earlier.
It's shameful that the cave owners/grotto overseeing the cave didn't have the foresight or fortitude to prevent future tragedies by closing that passage or making the cavers sign a form detailing that particular passage as off-limits I'm a professional outdoor activities instructor, and I've had friends who've died while participating recreationally in the sports they love.
It's an accepted part of what we do.
Surely it's up to an individual to assess the risks themselves and make judgements on what they consider acceptable.
Why should the cave owners be considered responsible for someone's safety?
"Volenti non fit injuria" - ie if you know the risks and do it anyway, you've only yourself to blame when you get hurt..I'm not a caver,.
but I assume in the US, information about particular caves is disseminated through the community on much the same way as in the UK (guidebooks, internet etc).
It should be easy enough to find out before entering a cave if a certain passage is dangerous or not.
It shouldn't be up to the cave owners to require everyone to sign a form or modify the cave to prevent people choosing to go that way.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30975068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30976884</id>
	<title>Mole phone?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264954800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't we already have a system that does exactly this called mole phone, sending text on VLF from deep underground is nothing new.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't we already have a system that does exactly this called mole phone , sending text on VLF from deep underground is nothing new .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't we already have a system that does exactly this called mole phone, sending text on VLF from deep underground is nothing new.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30981570</id>
	<title>Re:Pesky child...</title>
	<author>Proteus Child</author>
	<datestamp>1265041500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, what are you doing?

Besides looking down on someone who actually got off their ass and did something cool, I mean.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , what are you doing ?
Besides looking down on someone who actually got off their ass and did something cool , I mean .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, what are you doing?
Besides looking down on someone who actually got off their ass and did something cool, I mean.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30973892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30975890</id>
	<title>a higher bandwidth lower tech approach</title>
	<author>belmolis</author>
	<datestamp>1264945800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
It looks like there's a need for an approach along the lines of <a href="http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2549.html" title="faqs.org">RFC 2549</a> [faqs.org], but  using <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat" title="wikipedia.org">chiropteran</a> [wikipedia.org] rather than avian carriers. Assuming that they can be trained, the bandwidth will be higher and the weight and volume to be carried by both cavers and rescuers considerably less.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It looks like there 's a need for an approach along the lines of RFC 2549 [ faqs.org ] , but using chiropteran [ wikipedia.org ] rather than avian carriers .
Assuming that they can be trained , the bandwidth will be higher and the weight and volume to be carried by both cavers and rescuers considerably less .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
It looks like there's a need for an approach along the lines of RFC 2549 [faqs.org], but  using chiropteran [wikipedia.org] rather than avian carriers.
Assuming that they can be trained, the bandwidth will be higher and the weight and volume to be carried by both cavers and rescuers considerably less.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30975724</id>
	<title>Re:Then what is the point?</title>
	<author>gandhi\_2</author>
	<datestamp>1264944660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>the kid didn't implement any sort of retransmission or error correction</p></div><p>No kidding, if only there was some sort of layered protocol scheme whereby some facilities could be implemented at various other layers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the kid did n't implement any sort of retransmission or error correctionNo kidding , if only there was some sort of layered protocol scheme whereby some facilities could be implemented at various other layers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the kid didn't implement any sort of retransmission or error correctionNo kidding, if only there was some sort of layered protocol scheme whereby some facilities could be implemented at various other layers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30976336</id>
	<title>Re:Then what is the point?</title>
	<author>SaffronMiner</author>
	<datestamp>1264948920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I mean for fucks' sakes, this stuff was in use by the German navy during WW2- 70 years ago.  All this kid did was apply the obvious, and apparently, it's so obvious, someone thought of it 40 years ago.
</p></div><p>This stuff was used in World War One:</p><p>

<a href="http://www.rexresearch.com/rogers/1rogers.htm" title="rexresearch.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.rexresearch.com/rogers/1rogers.htm</a> [rexresearch.com]

</p><p>James H. ROGERS</p><p>Underground &amp; Underwater Radio</p><p>( Static-free Reception &amp; Transmission Underwater &amp; Underground )</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean for fucks ' sakes , this stuff was in use by the German navy during WW2- 70 years ago .
All this kid did was apply the obvious , and apparently , it 's so obvious , someone thought of it 40 years ago .
This stuff was used in World War One : http : //www.rexresearch.com/rogers/1rogers.htm [ rexresearch.com ] James H. ROGERSUnderground &amp; Underwater Radio ( Static-free Reception &amp; Transmission Underwater &amp; Underground )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I mean for fucks' sakes, this stuff was in use by the German navy during WW2- 70 years ago.
All this kid did was apply the obvious, and apparently, it's so obvious, someone thought of it 40 years ago.
This stuff was used in World War One:

http://www.rexresearch.com/rogers/1rogers.htm [rexresearch.com]

James H. ROGERSUnderground &amp; Underwater Radio( Static-free Reception &amp; Transmission Underwater &amp; Underground )
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30973942</id>
	<title>Living with Mom</title>
	<author>nacturation</author>
	<datestamp>1264933620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I guess Mom's basement goes really deep underground for this guy.  Perfect technology for nerds everywhere!  Why risk your pasty white skin getting outdoors to text?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I guess Mom 's basement goes really deep underground for this guy .
Perfect technology for nerds everywhere !
Why risk your pasty white skin getting outdoors to text ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I guess Mom's basement goes really deep underground for this guy.
Perfect technology for nerds everywhere!
Why risk your pasty white skin getting outdoors to text?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974718</id>
	<title>so this is the bin laden comm system?</title>
	<author>Joe The Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1264938240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>so this is the bin laden comm system?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so this is the bin laden comm system ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so this is the bin laden comm system?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30979580</id>
	<title>DIY Texting System For Really Underground Radio</title>
	<author>viralMeme</author>
	<datestamp>1265030820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>&gt; There's some kvetching in the NPR story's comments that it's not the first use of cave radios, but that seems to miss the point<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..<br> <br>

It is a valid point - not the first ues. It does demonstrate skill for a sixteen-year-old to be ables to design and construpt the device. An amalgam of VLF radio and a digital device. Communication underground has always been a problem. <a href="http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=http\%3A\%2F\%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org\%2Fiel5\%2F10797\%2F34040\%2F01622543.pdf\%3Fref\%3DGuzels.TV&amp;authDecision=-203" title="ieee.org">Leaky lines</a> [ieee.org] are one such solution, either active or passive.</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; There 's some kvetching in the NPR story 's comments that it 's not the first use of cave radios , but that seems to miss the point . . It is a valid point - not the first ues .
It does demonstrate skill for a sixteen-year-old to be ables to design and construpt the device .
An amalgam of VLF radio and a digital device .
Communication underground has always been a problem .
Leaky lines [ ieee.org ] are one such solution , either active or passive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; There's some kvetching in the NPR story's comments that it's not the first use of cave radios, but that seems to miss the point .. 

It is a valid point - not the first ues.
It does demonstrate skill for a sixteen-year-old to be ables to design and construpt the device.
An amalgam of VLF radio and a digital device.
Communication underground has always been a problem.
Leaky lines [ieee.org] are one such solution, either active or passive.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30976096</id>
	<title>Nothing new here</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1264947060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Alexander didn't "invent" anything.  It's been known for decades that VLF waves will penetrate where other, higher, frequencies won't.<br>
&nbsp; <br>But VLF doesn't get used much in the real world because of it's low bandwidth, high power requirements, and the size and fragility of the antennas required.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Alexander did n't " invent " anything .
It 's been known for decades that VLF waves will penetrate where other , higher , frequencies wo n't .
  But VLF does n't get used much in the real world because of it 's low bandwidth , high power requirements , and the size and fragility of the antennas required .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Alexander didn't "invent" anything.
It's been known for decades that VLF waves will penetrate where other, higher, frequencies won't.
  But VLF doesn't get used much in the real world because of it's low bandwidth, high power requirements, and the size and fragility of the antennas required.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974758</id>
	<title>Then what is the point?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264938480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, what is the point, then?

<p>VLF systems have been in use for decades to communicate with the US Submarine fleet, not because of interference, but because it passes through just about everything and has a very, very wide propagation.  Unfortunately, the power levels are so high that people wonder/suspect it's causing nature / health problems for nearby residents.

</p><p>I mean for fucks' sakes, this stuff was in use by the German navy during WW2- 70 years ago.  All this kid did was apply the obvious, and apparently, it's so obvious, someone thought of it 40 years ago.   More info:

</p><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very\_low\_frequency

</p><p>Also, the kid didn't implement any sort of retransmission or error correction.  That makes it pretty useless for both emergencies (imagine: "person has 3 hours to live" instead of "30 hours") and scientific data collection.  It's also pretty standard these days.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , what is the point , then ?
VLF systems have been in use for decades to communicate with the US Submarine fleet , not because of interference , but because it passes through just about everything and has a very , very wide propagation .
Unfortunately , the power levels are so high that people wonder/suspect it 's causing nature / health problems for nearby residents .
I mean for fucks ' sakes , this stuff was in use by the German navy during WW2- 70 years ago .
All this kid did was apply the obvious , and apparently , it 's so obvious , someone thought of it 40 years ago .
More info : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very \ _low \ _frequency Also , the kid did n't implement any sort of retransmission or error correction .
That makes it pretty useless for both emergencies ( imagine : " person has 3 hours to live " instead of " 30 hours " ) and scientific data collection .
It 's also pretty standard these days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, what is the point, then?
VLF systems have been in use for decades to communicate with the US Submarine fleet, not because of interference, but because it passes through just about everything and has a very, very wide propagation.
Unfortunately, the power levels are so high that people wonder/suspect it's causing nature / health problems for nearby residents.
I mean for fucks' sakes, this stuff was in use by the German navy during WW2- 70 years ago.
All this kid did was apply the obvious, and apparently, it's so obvious, someone thought of it 40 years ago.
More info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very\_low\_frequency

Also, the kid didn't implement any sort of retransmission or error correction.
That makes it pretty useless for both emergencies (imagine: "person has 3 hours to live" instead of "30 hours") and scientific data collection.
It's also pretty standard these days.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30973984</id>
	<title>This doesn't just apply to caving I expect.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264933860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This doesn't just apply to caving, it should work as well for mining no?  Range shouldn't be an issue since if it uses radio then relays should be feasible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This does n't just apply to caving , it should work as well for mining no ?
Range should n't be an issue since if it uses radio then relays should be feasible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This doesn't just apply to caving, it should work as well for mining no?
Range shouldn't be an issue since if it uses radio then relays should be feasible.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974230</id>
	<title>Finally</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264935060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No more out of range problems while I'm in my mom's basement.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No more out of range problems while I 'm in my mom 's basement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No more out of range problems while I'm in my mom's basement.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974154</id>
	<title>The article's more interesting point is buried</title>
	<author>JoshuaZ</author>
	<datestamp>1264934700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The article also talks about how this could be used by scientists who are investigating or monitoring life in caves and that this could be used to help find useful substances being made by life in the caves. From the article:<p><div class="quote"><p>But scientists think one of the biggest threats to this emerging source of antibiotics is actually the scientists themselves.

In fact, researchers believe the more they visit a cave, the less likely they are to find antibiotics. People contaminate the sensitive cave environment just by being there.

Northup thinks that by connecting data recorders to Kendrick's radio, scientists could remotely transmit information about the cave environment.

"So a cave radio that allows you to beam data to the surface rather than visiting it in person can be extremely valuable," she says. "It could save the cave."</p></div><p>Frankly, this doesn't seem that likely since to check if something is a useful antibiotic it needs to be tested against actual cultures generally. However, this does have serious potential of helping and of increasing our knowledge base. General medical knowledge and more anti-biotics will likely save far more lives than using the technology just to rescue people who occasionally get trapped in caves.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The article also talks about how this could be used by scientists who are investigating or monitoring life in caves and that this could be used to help find useful substances being made by life in the caves .
From the article : But scientists think one of the biggest threats to this emerging source of antibiotics is actually the scientists themselves .
In fact , researchers believe the more they visit a cave , the less likely they are to find antibiotics .
People contaminate the sensitive cave environment just by being there .
Northup thinks that by connecting data recorders to Kendrick 's radio , scientists could remotely transmit information about the cave environment .
" So a cave radio that allows you to beam data to the surface rather than visiting it in person can be extremely valuable , " she says .
" It could save the cave .
" Frankly , this does n't seem that likely since to check if something is a useful antibiotic it needs to be tested against actual cultures generally .
However , this does have serious potential of helping and of increasing our knowledge base .
General medical knowledge and more anti-biotics will likely save far more lives than using the technology just to rescue people who occasionally get trapped in caves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article also talks about how this could be used by scientists who are investigating or monitoring life in caves and that this could be used to help find useful substances being made by life in the caves.
From the article:But scientists think one of the biggest threats to this emerging source of antibiotics is actually the scientists themselves.
In fact, researchers believe the more they visit a cave, the less likely they are to find antibiotics.
People contaminate the sensitive cave environment just by being there.
Northup thinks that by connecting data recorders to Kendrick's radio, scientists could remotely transmit information about the cave environment.
"So a cave radio that allows you to beam data to the surface rather than visiting it in person can be extremely valuable," she says.
"It could save the cave.
"Frankly, this doesn't seem that likely since to check if something is a useful antibiotic it needs to be tested against actual cultures generally.
However, this does have serious potential of helping and of increasing our knowledge base.
General medical knowledge and more anti-biotics will likely save far more lives than using the technology just to rescue people who occasionally get trapped in caves.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30977120</id>
	<title>Great Tech, shame the antenna's so big</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264957080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Each of end of the antenna is a 6 foot wides, geodesics sphere. The
caver has to put it together to be able to comminucate with the
surface. I guess its not that easy sending signals though solid
rock, without a big antenna. Maybe they could make it smaller
with a neutrino beam?
<p>
---
</p><p>
<a href="http://www.feeddistiller.com/blogs/Ham\%20Radio/feed.html" title="feeddistiller.com">Ham Radio</a> [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ <a href="http://www.feeddistiller.com/" title="feeddistiller.com">Feed Distiller</a> [feeddistiller.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Each of end of the antenna is a 6 foot wides , geodesics sphere .
The caver has to put it together to be able to comminucate with the surface .
I guess its not that easy sending signals though solid rock , without a big antenna .
Maybe they could make it smaller with a neutrino beam ?
--- Ham Radio [ feeddistiller.com ] Feed @ Feed Distiller [ feeddistiller.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Each of end of the antenna is a 6 foot wides, geodesics sphere.
The
caver has to put it together to be able to comminucate with the
surface.
I guess its not that easy sending signals though solid
rock, without a big antenna.
Maybe they could make it smaller
with a neutrino beam?
---

Ham Radio [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ Feed Distiller [feeddistiller.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974168</id>
	<title>Underground radio in the 60's</title>
	<author>Jerry</author>
	<datestamp>1264934820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I recall reading a story a few years ago about some protesters at Berkely using audio amplifiers to transmit information between their various members and groups.  They'd attach the ground lead of the audio output of a 200 watt audio amp to a 10-15' rod pounded into the ground.  The positive lead was attached to another, shorter rod, pounded into the ground several feet away.   To recieve, they'd switch the wires from the ouput to the input of the audio amp.   The claim was that they could send voice as an electrical wave several miles.   Don't know how true the story is, but it sounds like it might work.</p><p>In central Nebraska, not far from Silver Creek, is a "Survivable Low Frequency Communications System"  The wiki writes about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivable\_Low\_Frequency\_Communications\_System/&gt;<br>"<i>SLFCS single channel, receive only capability is provided at ICBM launch control centers. The single channel operates between 14 kHz and 60 kHz to receive commands from remotely located Combat Operations Center - Transmit/Receive (T/R) sites; this low frequency range is slightly affected by nuclear blasts.</i>".   The signal travels along and underneath the ground, i.e.,  Ground Wave propagation.   Because the frequency was close the the 60 Hz power line frequency the two 1 KHz side tones were used to track power line faults.</p><p>When I drove by the Sliver Creek antenna and tuned my radio below 550 Khz I could find a hetrodyne signal and listen to the characters being transmitted in 5X5 blocks of characters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I recall reading a story a few years ago about some protesters at Berkely using audio amplifiers to transmit information between their various members and groups .
They 'd attach the ground lead of the audio output of a 200 watt audio amp to a 10-15 ' rod pounded into the ground .
The positive lead was attached to another , shorter rod , pounded into the ground several feet away .
To recieve , they 'd switch the wires from the ouput to the input of the audio amp .
The claim was that they could send voice as an electrical wave several miles .
Do n't know how true the story is , but it sounds like it might work.In central Nebraska , not far from Silver Creek , is a " Survivable Low Frequency Communications System " The wiki writes about it : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivable \ _Low \ _Frequency \ _Communications \ _System/ &gt; " SLFCS single channel , receive only capability is provided at ICBM launch control centers .
The single channel operates between 14 kHz and 60 kHz to receive commands from remotely located Combat Operations Center - Transmit/Receive ( T/R ) sites ; this low frequency range is slightly affected by nuclear blasts. " .
The signal travels along and underneath the ground , i.e. , Ground Wave propagation .
Because the frequency was close the the 60 Hz power line frequency the two 1 KHz side tones were used to track power line faults.When I drove by the Sliver Creek antenna and tuned my radio below 550 Khz I could find a hetrodyne signal and listen to the characters being transmitted in 5X5 blocks of characters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I recall reading a story a few years ago about some protesters at Berkely using audio amplifiers to transmit information between their various members and groups.
They'd attach the ground lead of the audio output of a 200 watt audio amp to a 10-15' rod pounded into the ground.
The positive lead was attached to another, shorter rod, pounded into the ground several feet away.
To recieve, they'd switch the wires from the ouput to the input of the audio amp.
The claim was that they could send voice as an electrical wave several miles.
Don't know how true the story is, but it sounds like it might work.In central Nebraska, not far from Silver Creek, is a "Survivable Low Frequency Communications System"  The wiki writes about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivable\_Low\_Frequency\_Communications\_System/&gt;"SLFCS single channel, receive only capability is provided at ICBM launch control centers.
The single channel operates between 14 kHz and 60 kHz to receive commands from remotely located Combat Operations Center - Transmit/Receive (T/R) sites; this low frequency range is slightly affected by nuclear blasts.".
The signal travels along and underneath the ground, i.e.,  Ground Wave propagation.
Because the frequency was close the the 60 Hz power line frequency the two 1 KHz side tones were used to track power line faults.When I drove by the Sliver Creek antenna and tuned my radio below 550 Khz I could find a hetrodyne signal and listen to the characters being transmitted in 5X5 blocks of characters.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30975118</id>
	<title>Re:Finally</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264941060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mean your evil overlord underground lair, right?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean your evil overlord underground lair , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean your evil overlord underground lair, right?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30992678</id>
	<title>Re:What am I missing here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265104080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>add to this http://www.minesite.com.au/coal\_mines\_ped\_systemc</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>add to this http : //www.minesite.com.au/coal \ _mines \ _ped \ _systemc</tokentext>
<sentencetext>add to this http://www.minesite.com.au/coal\_mines\_ped\_systemc</sentencetext>
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</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30978404</id>
	<title>Re:I've sat half way down Aquamole Aven</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265015820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>that a cave diver can carry into an aven</i>

<br> <br>Not even google knows what an "aven" is.  The dictionary, wikipedia, google, etc.<br>
WTF is an aven?</htmltext>
<tokenext>that a cave diver can carry into an aven Not even google knows what an " aven " is .
The dictionary , wikipedia , google , etc .
WTF is an aven ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that a cave diver can carry into an aven

 Not even google knows what an "aven" is.
The dictionary, wikipedia, google, etc.
WTF is an aven?</sentencetext>
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</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974284</id>
	<title>Sooo</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264935360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>who wants to start the first underground filesharing railroad</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>who wants to start the first underground filesharing railroad</tokentext>
<sentencetext>who wants to start the first underground filesharing railroad</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974624</id>
	<title>Why was it so warm?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264937580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone else notice that the guy said it was 68 degrees 1000 feet underground? With that much open air to the surface, it's not surprising he could get a radio transmission through.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone else notice that the guy said it was 68 degrees 1000 feet underground ?
With that much open air to the surface , it 's not surprising he could get a radio transmission through .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone else notice that the guy said it was 68 degrees 1000 feet underground?
With that much open air to the surface, it's not surprising he could get a radio transmission through.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30974074</id>
	<title>Ultra narrow bandwidth</title>
	<author>stox</author>
	<datestamp>1264934280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Reduce your bit rate to a few bits per second, even fractional bits per second, and you will be amazed at how far you can get a signal with a minimum of power.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Reduce your bit rate to a few bits per second , even fractional bits per second , and you will be amazed at how far you can get a signal with a minimum of power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reduce your bit rate to a few bits per second, even fractional bits per second, and you will be amazed at how far you can get a signal with a minimum of power.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.31006438</id>
	<title>darryl</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265138160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>this technology has been around and in common use, well for just about as long as radio has been around, LF communications for miners is allready in common use. So nothing new here.</p><p>The trouble is with very low frequiency communications is at low frequencies the wavelength is very long, therefore you have to have very large antennas that are very low in efficiency.</p><p>When in the military, I used to maintain a 250Kw LF transmitter, (around 44Khz) for submarine communications, the antenna was housed (mounted) on 3 x 800 foot towers, and that was only for the capactive 'top hat' for increased radiation efficiency.  But<br>to do low frequency comms, you need high power, large antennas, and low bandwidth. And low information rates.</p><p>So it's nothing new, it's been done and for a very long time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this technology has been around and in common use , well for just about as long as radio has been around , LF communications for miners is allready in common use .
So nothing new here.The trouble is with very low frequiency communications is at low frequencies the wavelength is very long , therefore you have to have very large antennas that are very low in efficiency.When in the military , I used to maintain a 250Kw LF transmitter , ( around 44Khz ) for submarine communications , the antenna was housed ( mounted ) on 3 x 800 foot towers , and that was only for the capactive 'top hat ' for increased radiation efficiency .
Butto do low frequency comms , you need high power , large antennas , and low bandwidth .
And low information rates.So it 's nothing new , it 's been done and for a very long time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this technology has been around and in common use, well for just about as long as radio has been around, LF communications for miners is allready in common use.
So nothing new here.The trouble is with very low frequiency communications is at low frequencies the wavelength is very long, therefore you have to have very large antennas that are very low in efficiency.When in the military, I used to maintain a 250Kw LF transmitter, (around 44Khz) for submarine communications, the antenna was housed (mounted) on 3 x 800 foot towers, and that was only for the capactive 'top hat' for increased radiation efficiency.
Butto do low frequency comms, you need high power, large antennas, and low bandwidth.
And low information rates.So it's nothing new, it's been done and for a very long time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_31_2114242.30975380</id>
	<title>The Boy Mechanic</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1264942620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The claim was that they could send voice as an electrical wave several miles. Don't know how true the story is, but it sounds like it might work.</i> </p><p>Of course it will work.</p><p>Morse used earth conduction to bridge the Susquehanna River in 1842-3. <a href="http://www.privateline.com/PCS/hawks3.htm" title="privateline.com">CALLING ALL NATIONS -- 1941</a> [privateline.com] </p><p>Kids were taking on projects like this in 1913. <a href="http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/popular-mechanics/The-Boy-Mechanic-700-Things-for-Boys-to-Do/How-To-Make-A-Wireless-Telephone.html" title="chestofbooks.com">How To Make A Wireless Telephone</a> [chestofbooks.com] </p><p><a href="http://www.smeter.net/stations/vlf-stations.php" title="smeter.net">Very Low Frequency (VLF) Stations</a> [smeter.net] [2010]<br>
&nbsp; <a href="http://www.qru.de/vlf.html" title="www.qru.de">Ham Radio below 9 kHz</a> [www.qru.de] [2006?]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The claim was that they could send voice as an electrical wave several miles .
Do n't know how true the story is , but it sounds like it might work .
Of course it will work.Morse used earth conduction to bridge the Susquehanna River in 1842-3 .
CALLING ALL NATIONS -- 1941 [ privateline.com ] Kids were taking on projects like this in 1913 .
How To Make A Wireless Telephone [ chestofbooks.com ] Very Low Frequency ( VLF ) Stations [ smeter.net ] [ 2010 ]   Ham Radio below 9 kHz [ www.qru.de ] [ 2006 ?
]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The claim was that they could send voice as an electrical wave several miles.
Don't know how true the story is, but it sounds like it might work.
Of course it will work.Morse used earth conduction to bridge the Susquehanna River in 1842-3.
CALLING ALL NATIONS -- 1941 [privateline.com] Kids were taking on projects like this in 1913.
How To Make A Wireless Telephone [chestofbooks.com] Very Low Frequency (VLF) Stations [smeter.net] [2010]
  Ham Radio below 9 kHz [www.qru.de] [2006?
]</sentencetext>
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