<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_28_1552239</id>
	<title>Meet the Military's Cyber-Security Forces</title>
	<author>CmdrTaco</author>
	<datestamp>1264696860000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>destinyland writes <i>"How exactly would the military fight a cyber war? In August 2009, the U.S. Air Force <a href="http://hplusmagazine.com/articles/politics/how-cyber-war-heating">activated its new cyberspace combat unit, the 24th Air Force</a>, to 'provide combat-ready forces trained and equipped to conduct sustained cyber operations.' It's commanded by former Minuteman missile and satellite-jamming specialist Major General Richard Webber. (And under his command are two wings, the 688th Information Operations Wing and the 67th Network Warfare Wing, plus a combat communications units.) Meanwhile, to counter the threat of cyber warfare, DARPA is still deploying the National Cyber Range, a test bed of networked computers to test countermeasures against 'cyberwar.'  (According to one report, it provides 'a virtual network world &mdash; to be populated by mirror computers and inhabited by myriad software sim-people "replicants," and used as a firing range in which to develop the art of cyber warfare.') The Obama administration has even added a military cybersecurity coordinator to the National Security team."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>destinyland writes " How exactly would the military fight a cyber war ?
In August 2009 , the U.S. Air Force activated its new cyberspace combat unit , the 24th Air Force , to 'provide combat-ready forces trained and equipped to conduct sustained cyber operations .
' It 's commanded by former Minuteman missile and satellite-jamming specialist Major General Richard Webber .
( And under his command are two wings , the 688th Information Operations Wing and the 67th Network Warfare Wing , plus a combat communications units .
) Meanwhile , to counter the threat of cyber warfare , DARPA is still deploying the National Cyber Range , a test bed of networked computers to test countermeasures against 'cyberwar .
' ( According to one report , it provides 'a virtual network world    to be populated by mirror computers and inhabited by myriad software sim-people " replicants , " and used as a firing range in which to develop the art of cyber warfare .
' ) The Obama administration has even added a military cybersecurity coordinator to the National Security team .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>destinyland writes "How exactly would the military fight a cyber war?
In August 2009, the U.S. Air Force activated its new cyberspace combat unit, the 24th Air Force, to 'provide combat-ready forces trained and equipped to conduct sustained cyber operations.
' It's commanded by former Minuteman missile and satellite-jamming specialist Major General Richard Webber.
(And under his command are two wings, the 688th Information Operations Wing and the 67th Network Warfare Wing, plus a combat communications units.
) Meanwhile, to counter the threat of cyber warfare, DARPA is still deploying the National Cyber Range, a test bed of networked computers to test countermeasures against 'cyberwar.
'  (According to one report, it provides 'a virtual network world — to be populated by mirror computers and inhabited by myriad software sim-people "replicants," and used as a firing range in which to develop the art of cyber warfare.
') The Obama administration has even added a military cybersecurity coordinator to the National Security team.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30971668</id>
	<title>Re:Airforce?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264964100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> You mean like the Pope speaking ex cathedra? </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean like the Pope speaking ex cathedra ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> You mean like the Pope speaking ex cathedra? </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935344</id>
	<title>Related link that is not down</title>
	<author>Meshach</author>
	<datestamp>1264700880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.thenewnewinternet.com/2010/01/27/air-force-cyber-command-to-go-operational/" title="thenewnewinternet.com">Link that is not down.</a> [thenewnewinternet.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Link that is not down .
[ thenewnewinternet.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Link that is not down.
[thenewnewinternet.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30943428</id>
	<title>Re:American Homeland Defense Firewall?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264681800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The Military" is in fact so afraid of breaking US Domestic Surveillance laws that when conducting training in CONUS the imagery intel units require special permission to use something as mundane as Google Earth for briefings on the local terrain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The Military " is in fact so afraid of breaking US Domestic Surveillance laws that when conducting training in CONUS the imagery intel units require special permission to use something as mundane as Google Earth for briefings on the local terrain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The Military" is in fact so afraid of breaking US Domestic Surveillance laws that when conducting training in CONUS the imagery intel units require special permission to use something as mundane as Google Earth for briefings on the local terrain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30943230</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>acalltoreason</author>
	<datestamp>1264680720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's an excellent point. In a virtual world, the only qualities that matter, are, as you said girlintraining, the necessary talent along with a creative mind. I am assuming, correct me if I am wrong, that you would need Top Secret clearance to work on a project as sensitive as this. This would present a problem, especially if you are trying to recruit talent, aptly described above as anti-authoritarian.

The government's plan to create a cyber-warfare division is a good one that has been a long time coming; however, the flaw is that they placed this division in the armed forces. This division, in my opinion, should be a civilian division placed under the DoD or DHS. They should be given a lot of leeway in order to work which can not happen in a rigorous military environment. To work in that sort of environment would stifle any sort of creativity that the "hacker" sorely needs in order to perform well.

This also brought to mind a question that I have been discussing with some friends of mine. We are of the opinion that the next great war will be a cyber war. Considering that the vast majority of pretty much everything is run on some sort of network, that is our most vulnerable spot. It's not just us either, it's most of the developed world. I'm just interested in what the Slashdot community thinks about this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's an excellent point .
In a virtual world , the only qualities that matter , are , as you said girlintraining , the necessary talent along with a creative mind .
I am assuming , correct me if I am wrong , that you would need Top Secret clearance to work on a project as sensitive as this .
This would present a problem , especially if you are trying to recruit talent , aptly described above as anti-authoritarian .
The government 's plan to create a cyber-warfare division is a good one that has been a long time coming ; however , the flaw is that they placed this division in the armed forces .
This division , in my opinion , should be a civilian division placed under the DoD or DHS .
They should be given a lot of leeway in order to work which can not happen in a rigorous military environment .
To work in that sort of environment would stifle any sort of creativity that the " hacker " sorely needs in order to perform well .
This also brought to mind a question that I have been discussing with some friends of mine .
We are of the opinion that the next great war will be a cyber war .
Considering that the vast majority of pretty much everything is run on some sort of network , that is our most vulnerable spot .
It 's not just us either , it 's most of the developed world .
I 'm just interested in what the Slashdot community thinks about this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's an excellent point.
In a virtual world, the only qualities that matter, are, as you said girlintraining, the necessary talent along with a creative mind.
I am assuming, correct me if I am wrong, that you would need Top Secret clearance to work on a project as sensitive as this.
This would present a problem, especially if you are trying to recruit talent, aptly described above as anti-authoritarian.
The government's plan to create a cyber-warfare division is a good one that has been a long time coming; however, the flaw is that they placed this division in the armed forces.
This division, in my opinion, should be a civilian division placed under the DoD or DHS.
They should be given a lot of leeway in order to work which can not happen in a rigorous military environment.
To work in that sort of environment would stifle any sort of creativity that the "hacker" sorely needs in order to perform well.
This also brought to mind a question that I have been discussing with some friends of mine.
We are of the opinion that the next great war will be a cyber war.
Considering that the vast majority of pretty much everything is run on some sort of network, that is our most vulnerable spot.
It's not just us either, it's most of the developed world.
I'm just interested in what the Slashdot community thinks about this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30941346</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264673760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Adrian Lamo is -in fact- gay.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Adrian Lamo is -in fact- gay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Adrian Lamo is -in fact- gay.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936690</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935240</id>
	<title>Stop saying cyber</title>
	<author>Reason58</author>
	<datestamp>1264700580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>That word bugs the hell out of me. It's like watching a "hacker" in the movies waving around a power glove while a graphic of a virus attacks things. And you used it 9 times in that summary. Just stop it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That word bugs the hell out of me .
It 's like watching a " hacker " in the movies waving around a power glove while a graphic of a virus attacks things .
And you used it 9 times in that summary .
Just stop it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That word bugs the hell out of me.
It's like watching a "hacker" in the movies waving around a power glove while a graphic of a virus attacks things.
And you used it 9 times in that summary.
Just stop it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936238</id>
	<title>Re:Airforce?</title>
	<author>oodaloop</author>
	<datestamp>1264703280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They've <i>always</i> been the Chair Force.  Or the Hair Force.  Or Air Farce.  Take your pick.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They 've always been the Chair Force .
Or the Hair Force .
Or Air Farce .
Take your pick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They've always been the Chair Force.
Or the Hair Force.
Or Air Farce.
Take your pick.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30938696</id>
	<title>Carefully arranged techno-babble</title>
	<author>Arancaytar</author>
	<datestamp>1264709460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This summary read like the back cover of a sequel to Neuromancer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This summary read like the back cover of a sequel to Neuromancer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This summary read like the back cover of a sequel to Neuromancer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936274</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264703340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Bitter much?  You certainly did unload a pile of rubbish there, feel any better?  Linear sequential thinkers?  Patterns in seemingly random information?  Over 30 too old?  Total horseshit, you don't know what you're talking about.<br>
<br>
How do you recruit techies for the Military?  Easy, you train them.  As the various service academies have been doing for several years now.  And you can come down from your high horse, technical skills are not all that rare in the general population.  You may think you are some kind of genius, but in reality you are just an anti-social nerd with a superiority complex.<br>
<br>
Discipline and authority are not anathema to hacking or technical ability.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Bitter much ?
You certainly did unload a pile of rubbish there , feel any better ?
Linear sequential thinkers ?
Patterns in seemingly random information ?
Over 30 too old ?
Total horseshit , you do n't know what you 're talking about .
How do you recruit techies for the Military ?
Easy , you train them .
As the various service academies have been doing for several years now .
And you can come down from your high horse , technical skills are not all that rare in the general population .
You may think you are some kind of genius , but in reality you are just an anti-social nerd with a superiority complex .
Discipline and authority are not anathema to hacking or technical ability .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bitter much?
You certainly did unload a pile of rubbish there, feel any better?
Linear sequential thinkers?
Patterns in seemingly random information?
Over 30 too old?
Total horseshit, you don't know what you're talking about.
How do you recruit techies for the Military?
Easy, you train them.
As the various service academies have been doing for several years now.
And you can come down from your high horse, technical skills are not all that rare in the general population.
You may think you are some kind of genius, but in reality you are just an anti-social nerd with a superiority complex.
Discipline and authority are not anathema to hacking or technical ability.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30939026</id>
	<title>Re:Stop saying cyber</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264710240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That word bugs the hell out of me. It's like watching a "hacker" in the movies waving around a power glove while a graphic of a virus attacks things. And you used it 9 times in that summary. Just stop it.</p></div><p>cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber.... there that about does it</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That word bugs the hell out of me .
It 's like watching a " hacker " in the movies waving around a power glove while a graphic of a virus attacks things .
And you used it 9 times in that summary .
Just stop it.cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber.... there that about does it</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That word bugs the hell out of me.
It's like watching a "hacker" in the movies waving around a power glove while a graphic of a virus attacks things.
And you used it 9 times in that summary.
Just stop it.cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber cyber.... there that about does it
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30937866</id>
	<title>Cyber Militia</title>
	<author>cenc</author>
	<datestamp>1264707540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't understand why they don't properly organize a cyber-militia. Russia and China sure seem to have their own going.</p><p>We could pounce them 5 to 1 with all the private computer networks and crackers around the World that might contribute. They just need a proper command and control system, otherwise I could totally see more than a few friendly fire incidents ( "sorry about that L.A., I thought I was pulling the plug on the power grid in Bejing").</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand why they do n't properly organize a cyber-militia .
Russia and China sure seem to have their own going.We could pounce them 5 to 1 with all the private computer networks and crackers around the World that might contribute .
They just need a proper command and control system , otherwise I could totally see more than a few friendly fire incidents ( " sorry about that L.A. , I thought I was pulling the plug on the power grid in Bejing " ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand why they don't properly organize a cyber-militia.
Russia and China sure seem to have their own going.We could pounce them 5 to 1 with all the private computer networks and crackers around the World that might contribute.
They just need a proper command and control system, otherwise I could totally see more than a few friendly fire incidents ( "sorry about that L.A., I thought I was pulling the plug on the power grid in Bejing").</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935482</id>
	<title>Airforce?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264701180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>*jumps into flame suit *</p><p>Or would that now be called the <b>Chairforce</b>?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>* jumps into flame suit * Or would that now be called the Chairforce ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>*jumps into flame suit *Or would that now be called the Chairforce?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936690</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Thaelon</author>
	<datestamp>1264704660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>: Women are generally able to multitask and see the "big picture" easier than men, gays stereotypically gravitate towards creative endeavors (theatre, graphic design, etc.), and the over 30 crowd has exactly the kind of in-depth understanding of the technology and experience necessary to use it that a bunch of twenty-somethings just can't match, no matter how good the training.</p></div></blockquote><p>Wow, that was not where I thought you were going with that.</p><p>And it doesn't seem very rational.  <em>All</em> of the in/famous hackers I can think of are at least men, and most are Caucasian.  DVD John, Kevin Mitnic, Stroustrup, Paul Lutus, Linus Torvalds, Woz, Stall Man, Wall, Knuth, Shimomura, Johnathan James, and Adrian Lamo... And I don't think any of them are homosexual..  Do you have any counter-examples that would alter this perception?</p><p>I think the only thing these people have in common is they aren't just empty suits like the government seems to love to employ, but they are all men.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>: Women are generally able to multitask and see the " big picture " easier than men , gays stereotypically gravitate towards creative endeavors ( theatre , graphic design , etc .
) , and the over 30 crowd has exactly the kind of in-depth understanding of the technology and experience necessary to use it that a bunch of twenty-somethings just ca n't match , no matter how good the training.Wow , that was not where I thought you were going with that.And it does n't seem very rational .
All of the in/famous hackers I can think of are at least men , and most are Caucasian .
DVD John , Kevin Mitnic , Stroustrup , Paul Lutus , Linus Torvalds , Woz , Stall Man , Wall , Knuth , Shimomura , Johnathan James , and Adrian Lamo... And I do n't think any of them are homosexual.. Do you have any counter-examples that would alter this perception ? I think the only thing these people have in common is they are n't just empty suits like the government seems to love to employ , but they are all men .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>: Women are generally able to multitask and see the "big picture" easier than men, gays stereotypically gravitate towards creative endeavors (theatre, graphic design, etc.
), and the over 30 crowd has exactly the kind of in-depth understanding of the technology and experience necessary to use it that a bunch of twenty-somethings just can't match, no matter how good the training.Wow, that was not where I thought you were going with that.And it doesn't seem very rational.
All of the in/famous hackers I can think of are at least men, and most are Caucasian.
DVD John, Kevin Mitnic, Stroustrup, Paul Lutus, Linus Torvalds, Woz, Stall Man, Wall, Knuth, Shimomura, Johnathan James, and Adrian Lamo... And I don't think any of them are homosexual..  Do you have any counter-examples that would alter this perception?I think the only thing these people have in common is they aren't just empty suits like the government seems to love to employ, but they are all men.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30943822</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264684140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This is an organization that still believes that only men should be in their little club, gays are bad, and if you're over 30 you're too old.</p></div><p>You're information is out of date.  Plenty of women in Military doing awesome things.  Women can't join combat arms but in modern wars everyone is a fighter regardless if their job field is Infantry or Signals (Communications).  Women fill leadership roles in higher numbers then they represent.  The Navy is looking to allow women in Subs soon.  Homosexuals are explicitly allowed in military.  That was the point of the "Don't Ask Don't Tell", Yes I realize it's a horrible compromise.  The policy is Statements, Acts, Marriage.  As long as you don't say you're gay, don't try for same-sex marriage and don't get caught in a homosexual act.  It is not legal to remove someone for "being" gay unless they also did one of those three things.  I know several admitted homosexuals in military.  They should be able to come out, but that's not there yet.   If you join the military late in life, your experience won't reflect your rank.  But lower ranking people can run a workshop, they just won't be managers.  Plus your job experience and college degrees will enhance your resume when it comes to applying to prestigious positions within military (which surely this position will be).</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Everything about this theatre is contrary to conventional military discipline.</p></div><p>Bullshit, they're not playing around with people's personal PC's...  this would be about about wartime operational equipment or critical infrastructure.  Chain of Command and Discipline matters when a mistake can put us in war or get soldiers killed.  You wouldn't put a reformed black hat in charge of a database filled with credit card details without supervision.</p><p>PS I don't buy the argument that gays are better geeks.  I think you have it backwards.  Geeks are more tolerating of gays which encourages people to come out.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is an organization that still believes that only men should be in their little club , gays are bad , and if you 're over 30 you 're too old.You 're information is out of date .
Plenty of women in Military doing awesome things .
Women ca n't join combat arms but in modern wars everyone is a fighter regardless if their job field is Infantry or Signals ( Communications ) .
Women fill leadership roles in higher numbers then they represent .
The Navy is looking to allow women in Subs soon .
Homosexuals are explicitly allowed in military .
That was the point of the " Do n't Ask Do n't Tell " , Yes I realize it 's a horrible compromise .
The policy is Statements , Acts , Marriage .
As long as you do n't say you 're gay , do n't try for same-sex marriage and do n't get caught in a homosexual act .
It is not legal to remove someone for " being " gay unless they also did one of those three things .
I know several admitted homosexuals in military .
They should be able to come out , but that 's not there yet .
If you join the military late in life , your experience wo n't reflect your rank .
But lower ranking people can run a workshop , they just wo n't be managers .
Plus your job experience and college degrees will enhance your resume when it comes to applying to prestigious positions within military ( which surely this position will be ) .Everything about this theatre is contrary to conventional military discipline.Bullshit , they 're not playing around with people 's personal PC 's... this would be about about wartime operational equipment or critical infrastructure .
Chain of Command and Discipline matters when a mistake can put us in war or get soldiers killed .
You would n't put a reformed black hat in charge of a database filled with credit card details without supervision.PS I do n't buy the argument that gays are better geeks .
I think you have it backwards .
Geeks are more tolerating of gays which encourages people to come out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is an organization that still believes that only men should be in their little club, gays are bad, and if you're over 30 you're too old.You're information is out of date.
Plenty of women in Military doing awesome things.
Women can't join combat arms but in modern wars everyone is a fighter regardless if their job field is Infantry or Signals (Communications).
Women fill leadership roles in higher numbers then they represent.
The Navy is looking to allow women in Subs soon.
Homosexuals are explicitly allowed in military.
That was the point of the "Don't Ask Don't Tell", Yes I realize it's a horrible compromise.
The policy is Statements, Acts, Marriage.
As long as you don't say you're gay, don't try for same-sex marriage and don't get caught in a homosexual act.
It is not legal to remove someone for "being" gay unless they also did one of those three things.
I know several admitted homosexuals in military.
They should be able to come out, but that's not there yet.
If you join the military late in life, your experience won't reflect your rank.
But lower ranking people can run a workshop, they just won't be managers.
Plus your job experience and college degrees will enhance your resume when it comes to applying to prestigious positions within military (which surely this position will be).Everything about this theatre is contrary to conventional military discipline.Bullshit, they're not playing around with people's personal PC's...  this would be about about wartime operational equipment or critical infrastructure.
Chain of Command and Discipline matters when a mistake can put us in war or get soldiers killed.
You wouldn't put a reformed black hat in charge of a database filled with credit card details without supervision.PS I don't buy the argument that gays are better geeks.
I think you have it backwards.
Geeks are more tolerating of gays which encourages people to come out.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30937070</id>
	<title>ok terminator</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264705740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i'll stop I can see it bothers u when the other kids call u a cyborg rather than a mechanical replicant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i 'll stop I can see it bothers u when the other kids call u a cyborg rather than a mechanical replicant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i'll stop I can see it bothers u when the other kids call u a cyborg rather than a mechanical replicant.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30942230</id>
	<title>Re:Stop saying cyber</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264676640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Imagine how William Gibson must feel!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine how William Gibson must feel !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine how William Gibson must feel!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30943480</id>
	<title>Aaaahhhhh.....</title>
	<author>sgt\_doom</author>
	<datestamp>1264682100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>....like the way Wall Street and the Republicrats fight the Class War, only better????</p><p>Is there a prize if I got the right answer?????</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>....like the way Wall Street and the Republicrats fight the Class War , only better ? ? ?
? Is there a prize if I got the right answer ? ? ? ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>....like the way Wall Street and the Republicrats fight the Class War, only better???
?Is there a prize if I got the right answer????
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935246</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30938066</id>
	<title>Airforce handicaps</title>
	<author>mrheckman</author>
	<datestamp>1264707960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Few women, no gays, age limit. Then, too, there's the religious intolerance that has been reported at the Air Force Academy. (Google it, there are a lot of articles, most when it was first reported in 2005, but also since then.) I wonder what percentage of people with the talents needed to be "cyberwarriors" are evangelical Christians?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Few women , no gays , age limit .
Then , too , there 's the religious intolerance that has been reported at the Air Force Academy .
( Google it , there are a lot of articles , most when it was first reported in 2005 , but also since then .
) I wonder what percentage of people with the talents needed to be " cyberwarriors " are evangelical Christians ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Few women, no gays, age limit.
Then, too, there's the religious intolerance that has been reported at the Air Force Academy.
(Google it, there are a lot of articles, most when it was first reported in 2005, but also since then.
) I wonder what percentage of people with the talents needed to be "cyberwarriors" are evangelical Christians?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935594</id>
	<title>Navy has one too</title>
	<author>Waynelson</author>
	<datestamp>1264701480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The navy is standing up a cyber-warfare group as well<p><div class="quote"><p>Tenth Fleet will be reactivated in October 2009 as the U.S. Navy's Fleet Cyber Command/10th Fleet.[2] The command will be the Naval component of United States Cyber Command. Its first commander will be VADM Bernard J. McCullough III. [3]</p></div><p>

From Wikipedia: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_Tenth\_Fleet#Fleet\_Cyber\_Command" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_Tenth\_Fleet#Fleet\_Cyber\_Command</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The navy is standing up a cyber-warfare group as wellTenth Fleet will be reactivated in October 2009 as the U.S. Navy 's Fleet Cyber Command/10th Fleet .
[ 2 ] The command will be the Naval component of United States Cyber Command .
Its first commander will be VADM Bernard J. McCullough III .
[ 3 ] From Wikipedia : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United \ _States \ _Tenth \ _Fleet # Fleet \ _Cyber \ _Command [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The navy is standing up a cyber-warfare group as wellTenth Fleet will be reactivated in October 2009 as the U.S. Navy's Fleet Cyber Command/10th Fleet.
[2] The command will be the Naval component of United States Cyber Command.
Its first commander will be VADM Bernard J. McCullough III.
[3]

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_Tenth\_Fleet#Fleet\_Cyber\_Command [wikipedia.org]
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936226</id>
	<title>Encryption for the masses.</title>
	<author>khasim</author>
	<datestamp>1264703220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe this will be the kicker needed to get businesses and such to really use encryption in their Internet traffic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe this will be the kicker needed to get businesses and such to really use encryption in their Internet traffic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe this will be the kicker needed to get businesses and such to really use encryption in their Internet traffic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30939872</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264669680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Men are the best hackers (and almost the only hackers, there are few female hackers). The only thing I've ever seen "female geeks" do is complain about mmmeeeennnnn.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Men are the best hackers ( and almost the only hackers , there are few female hackers ) .
The only thing I 've ever seen " female geeks " do is complain about mmmeeeennnnn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Men are the best hackers (and almost the only hackers, there are few female hackers).
The only thing I've ever seen "female geeks" do is complain about mmmeeeennnnn.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30949754</id>
	<title>Re:American Homeland Defense Firewall?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264782300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You seem to forget that the greatest threat to the US Government and its goals is <strong>its own People</strong>.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You seem to forget that the greatest threat to the US Government and its goals is its own People .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You seem to forget that the greatest threat to the US Government and its goals is its own People.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935910</id>
	<title>Re:American Homeland Defense Firewall?</title>
	<author>kevinNCSU</author>
	<datestamp>1264702320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wait, so the army trains on how to fight with enormously destructive weapons, and how to interrogate and search people efficiently, but now that they're learning how to conduct warfare on some copper and fiber wires you're scared?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait , so the army trains on how to fight with enormously destructive weapons , and how to interrogate and search people efficiently , but now that they 're learning how to conduct warfare on some copper and fiber wires you 're scared ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait, so the army trains on how to fight with enormously destructive weapons, and how to interrogate and search people efficiently, but now that they're learning how to conduct warfare on some copper and fiber wires you're scared?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30937608</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264707000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Stall Man<br>Is he the superhero that can never keep his jet aloft?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Stall ManIs he the superhero that can never keep his jet aloft ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stall ManIs he the superhero that can never keep his jet aloft?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936690</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30937204</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>tibman</author>
	<datestamp>1264706040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yikes, you threw a lot of stereotypes out there.</p><p>Women can join any US military branch but cannot (as in not allowed) perform Combat duties.  You can join the US Army at 42 without a waiver.. so 30 is not too old.  Gay men and women are tolerated because they are just as good as everyone else.. the problem comes in when a guy is sitting on the bench outside the shower room watching everyone go in and out (this happens!) and everyone freaks out and stereotypes all gay guys to be that way.</p><p>Finally, most services are very regimented and rigid but all branches have their "weirdo" groups/units to put the special people into.  Usually you have to earn your way in and not just be non-conformist.  Which means you have to be able to play ball AND bring something extra to the table.  If you can't bottle up your non-compliance and bring your special skillset.. you are a loose cannon and not wanted.  Which is a good thing!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yikes , you threw a lot of stereotypes out there.Women can join any US military branch but can not ( as in not allowed ) perform Combat duties .
You can join the US Army at 42 without a waiver.. so 30 is not too old .
Gay men and women are tolerated because they are just as good as everyone else.. the problem comes in when a guy is sitting on the bench outside the shower room watching everyone go in and out ( this happens !
) and everyone freaks out and stereotypes all gay guys to be that way.Finally , most services are very regimented and rigid but all branches have their " weirdo " groups/units to put the special people into .
Usually you have to earn your way in and not just be non-conformist .
Which means you have to be able to play ball AND bring something extra to the table .
If you ca n't bottle up your non-compliance and bring your special skillset.. you are a loose cannon and not wanted .
Which is a good thing !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yikes, you threw a lot of stereotypes out there.Women can join any US military branch but cannot (as in not allowed) perform Combat duties.
You can join the US Army at 42 without a waiver.. so 30 is not too old.
Gay men and women are tolerated because they are just as good as everyone else.. the problem comes in when a guy is sitting on the bench outside the shower room watching everyone go in and out (this happens!
) and everyone freaks out and stereotypes all gay guys to be that way.Finally, most services are very regimented and rigid but all branches have their "weirdo" groups/units to put the special people into.
Usually you have to earn your way in and not just be non-conformist.
Which means you have to be able to play ball AND bring something extra to the table.
If you can't bottle up your non-compliance and bring your special skillset.. you are a loose cannon and not wanted.
Which is a good thing!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936140</id>
	<title>HaCKERZ</title>
	<author>RedTeflon</author>
	<datestamp>1264702980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Does this mean the president will have his thumb on a little red button to release the HaCKERZ now?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does this mean the president will have his thumb on a little red button to release the HaCKERZ now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does this mean the president will have his thumb on a little red button to release the HaCKERZ now?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30937218</id>
	<title>Re:AF cyberspace command is a joke...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264706100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well that's kind of what the AF is designed to do right now.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The mission of the United States Air Force is to deliver sovereign options for the defense of the United States of America and its global interests -- to fly and fight in Air, Space, and Cyberspace.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well that 's kind of what the AF is designed to do right now.The mission of the United States Air Force is to deliver sovereign options for the defense of the United States of America and its global interests -- to fly and fight in Air , Space , and Cyberspace .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well that's kind of what the AF is designed to do right now.The mission of the United States Air Force is to deliver sovereign options for the defense of the United States of America and its global interests -- to fly and fight in Air, Space, and Cyberspace.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935662</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30943298</id>
	<title>Re:American Homeland Defense Firewall?</title>
	<author>Gyorg\_Lavode</author>
	<datestamp>1264681140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I honestly think we'll end up with an internet made of defended virtual areas (the same way that US territories are physically defended).  They may not all be government areas either.  Maybe the military and the national infrastructure reside within the governments defended areas.  And Comcast defends it's area.  Or you can pay and be part of Googles defended area.
</p><p>
My guess is the defended areas will only explicitly talk to each other.  So if Google and comcast don't come to agreement about what they're willing to pass back and forth, they refuse to talk.  Or, maybe google and china's walled areas talk.  Except if china starts to break their agreement, google disconnects them.
</p><p>
network space is simply a representation of the physical world except the level of granularity is lower (real world we're still discovering smaller and smaller particles while networks are very discrete) and in network space, things happen much much faster.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I honestly think we 'll end up with an internet made of defended virtual areas ( the same way that US territories are physically defended ) .
They may not all be government areas either .
Maybe the military and the national infrastructure reside within the governments defended areas .
And Comcast defends it 's area .
Or you can pay and be part of Googles defended area .
My guess is the defended areas will only explicitly talk to each other .
So if Google and comcast do n't come to agreement about what they 're willing to pass back and forth , they refuse to talk .
Or , maybe google and china 's walled areas talk .
Except if china starts to break their agreement , google disconnects them .
network space is simply a representation of the physical world except the level of granularity is lower ( real world we 're still discovering smaller and smaller particles while networks are very discrete ) and in network space , things happen much much faster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I honestly think we'll end up with an internet made of defended virtual areas (the same way that US territories are physically defended).
They may not all be government areas either.
Maybe the military and the national infrastructure reside within the governments defended areas.
And Comcast defends it's area.
Or you can pay and be part of Googles defended area.
My guess is the defended areas will only explicitly talk to each other.
So if Google and comcast don't come to agreement about what they're willing to pass back and forth, they refuse to talk.
Or, maybe google and china's walled areas talk.
Except if china starts to break their agreement, google disconnects them.
network space is simply a representation of the physical world except the level of granularity is lower (real world we're still discovering smaller and smaller particles while networks are very discrete) and in network space, things happen much much faster.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30949286</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Gyorg\_Lavode</author>
	<datestamp>1264780260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The answer is first, contractors.  They can be quickly hired to do the job and get to keep their over-weight, gay, female, anarchist, old, whatever family life.
<p>
In the long term however the military will train young recruits in cyber warfare.  You seem to believe you can't train someone to conduct cyber warfare.  That sounds like saying you can't train someone to run strait into oncoming gunfire rather than circumventing the enemy.  The people creating the ciriculum or doing the training may be over-weight, gay, female, anti-social, and old but they will be passing the k nowledge to the standard young, intelligent soldiers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The answer is first , contractors .
They can be quickly hired to do the job and get to keep their over-weight , gay , female , anarchist , old , whatever family life .
In the long term however the military will train young recruits in cyber warfare .
You seem to believe you ca n't train someone to conduct cyber warfare .
That sounds like saying you ca n't train someone to run strait into oncoming gunfire rather than circumventing the enemy .
The people creating the ciriculum or doing the training may be over-weight , gay , female , anti-social , and old but they will be passing the k nowledge to the standard young , intelligent soldiers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The answer is first, contractors.
They can be quickly hired to do the job and get to keep their over-weight, gay, female, anarchist, old, whatever family life.
In the long term however the military will train young recruits in cyber warfare.
You seem to believe you can't train someone to conduct cyber warfare.
That sounds like saying you can't train someone to run strait into oncoming gunfire rather than circumventing the enemy.
The people creating the ciriculum or doing the training may be over-weight, gay, female, anti-social, and old but they will be passing the k nowledge to the standard young, intelligent soldiers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30943442</id>
	<title>Hell yes it's Operation Screaming Fist!!!!!!!</title>
	<author>sgt\_doom</author>
	<datestamp>1264681860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What a gas!!  Loved all those green thingy lines -- really gucci, doods and doodettes!</p><p>Geez, and those guys -- those were the same buckaroos at the 1999 Silicon Valley conference where they made that fantasy proclamation about something called <b>"The New Economy"</b> (where they hell did they hide that thing, anyway????).  That's where no money had to be spent on any hardware or install testing, all the software was downloaded from the 'net (I believe that's what they called those interpipe thingies).</p><p>Oh yeah...I take this very seriously guys.</p><p>Especially because, wooooo, looky there, there's my fav braless newsy, Leslie Stahl, go baby go!!!!</p><p>Geez Louise!  I haven't seen here on the TV  since I gave up watching that 60 Minutes show when she gushed over that Taliban jet pilot, who lived in the US but occasionally went back to Afghanistan to bomb the hell out of those innocent civilians who refused to join the Taliban.  (Now those are the bad guys?  Am I right here -- or still confused????)</p><p>Keep on gushing, braless Leslie....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What a gas ! !
Loved all those green thingy lines -- really gucci , doods and doodettes ! Geez , and those guys -- those were the same buckaroos at the 1999 Silicon Valley conference where they made that fantasy proclamation about something called " The New Economy " ( where they hell did they hide that thing , anyway ? ? ? ? ) .
That 's where no money had to be spent on any hardware or install testing , all the software was downloaded from the 'net ( I believe that 's what they called those interpipe thingies ) .Oh yeah...I take this very seriously guys.Especially because , wooooo , looky there , there 's my fav braless newsy , Leslie Stahl , go baby go ! ! !
! Geez Louise !
I have n't seen here on the TV since I gave up watching that 60 Minutes show when she gushed over that Taliban jet pilot , who lived in the US but occasionally went back to Afghanistan to bomb the hell out of those innocent civilians who refused to join the Taliban .
( Now those are the bad guys ?
Am I right here -- or still confused ? ? ? ?
) Keep on gushing , braless Leslie... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a gas!!
Loved all those green thingy lines -- really gucci, doods and doodettes!Geez, and those guys -- those were the same buckaroos at the 1999 Silicon Valley conference where they made that fantasy proclamation about something called "The New Economy" (where they hell did they hide that thing, anyway????).
That's where no money had to be spent on any hardware or install testing, all the software was downloaded from the 'net (I believe that's what they called those interpipe thingies).Oh yeah...I take this very seriously guys.Especially because, wooooo, looky there, there's my fav braless newsy, Leslie Stahl, go baby go!!!
!Geez Louise!
I haven't seen here on the TV  since I gave up watching that 60 Minutes show when she gushed over that Taliban jet pilot, who lived in the US but occasionally went back to Afghanistan to bomb the hell out of those innocent civilians who refused to join the Taliban.
(Now those are the bad guys?
Am I right here -- or still confused????
)Keep on gushing, braless Leslie....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936202</id>
	<title>We could just fix our OS problem instead</title>
	<author>ka9dgx</author>
	<datestamp>1264703160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Instead of spending yet another astronomical amount of resources to try to patch up our "defenses", why not fund a few open source projects to get a some implementations of the <a href="http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CapabilitySecurityModel" title="c2.com">Capability Security Model</a> [c2.com] out into circulation?</p><p>A few well placed millions (or heck, even thousands) could fix the internet for good, and then we could all get on with general purpose computing, without the need for virus scanners, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead of spending yet another astronomical amount of resources to try to patch up our " defenses " , why not fund a few open source projects to get a some implementations of the Capability Security Model [ c2.com ] out into circulation ? A few well placed millions ( or heck , even thousands ) could fix the internet for good , and then we could all get on with general purpose computing , without the need for virus scanners , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead of spending yet another astronomical amount of resources to try to patch up our "defenses", why not fund a few open source projects to get a some implementations of the Capability Security Model [c2.com] out into circulation?A few well placed millions (or heck, even thousands) could fix the internet for good, and then we could all get on with general purpose computing, without the need for virus scanners, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30938678</id>
	<title>Finally!</title>
	<author>Phizzle</author>
	<datestamp>1264709400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>US is going to open a can of whoop-ass with its own Kuang Grade Mark Eleven icebreaker!</htmltext>
<tokenext>US is going to open a can of whoop-ass with its own Kuang Grade Mark Eleven icebreaker !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>US is going to open a can of whoop-ass with its own Kuang Grade Mark Eleven icebreaker!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30943924</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>jeff4747</author>
	<datestamp>1264684620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>We invited the general to come and post on slashdot a few years back. They never did come up with a good answer to how they can recruit the necessary talent when the aforementioned is generally anti-authoritarian.</p></div></blockquote><p>That's what military contractors are for.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We invited the general to come and post on slashdot a few years back .
They never did come up with a good answer to how they can recruit the necessary talent when the aforementioned is generally anti-authoritarian.That 's what military contractors are for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We invited the general to come and post on slashdot a few years back.
They never did come up with a good answer to how they can recruit the necessary talent when the aforementioned is generally anti-authoritarian.That's what military contractors are for.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30960032</id>
	<title>Armed Forces ??? Cyber technicians?? choke ack</title>
	<author>ps2os2</author>
	<datestamp>1264794960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If anyone has seen the TV commercials (I think I have seen 2) would probably toss their cookies 15 seconds into the ad. Heck the Army cannot keep interpreters what makes them think they will be able to keep highly skilled computer people?</p><p>The whole idea of the army attempting to do this makes me want to  shake my head and start muttering to myself about moving to some other country. Between the politicians getting ubber rich off political contributions we will officially have a 4th class of people lest call them grease their palms and they will get you anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If anyone has seen the TV commercials ( I think I have seen 2 ) would probably toss their cookies 15 seconds into the ad .
Heck the Army can not keep interpreters what makes them think they will be able to keep highly skilled computer people ? The whole idea of the army attempting to do this makes me want to shake my head and start muttering to myself about moving to some other country .
Between the politicians getting ubber rich off political contributions we will officially have a 4th class of people lest call them grease their palms and they will get you anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If anyone has seen the TV commercials (I think I have seen 2) would probably toss their cookies 15 seconds into the ad.
Heck the Army cannot keep interpreters what makes them think they will be able to keep highly skilled computer people?The whole idea of the army attempting to do this makes me want to  shake my head and start muttering to myself about moving to some other country.
Between the politicians getting ubber rich off political contributions we will officially have a 4th class of people lest call them grease their palms and they will get you anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30938668</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Lodragandraoidh</author>
	<datestamp>1264709400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Currently I believe 39 is the maximum age to enlist...but there may be waivers for certain fields.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Currently I believe 39 is the maximum age to enlist...but there may be waivers for certain fields .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Currently I believe 39 is the maximum age to enlist...but there may be waivers for certain fields.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30937556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30943314</id>
	<title>More to the point...how should USA protect its IP?</title>
	<author>obliquereference</author>
	<datestamp>1264681200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If economic strength, drives political strength and international standing (hopefully no one has any illusions that it doesn't do both).  And USA's economic strength is currently predicated on intellectual property (which can then manufactured somewhere else) then how do we (as a nation...or any nation) protect ourselves from the array of network attacks that are launched against us?

I think some sort of national firewall or cooperative agreement is a good idea to help protect against those countries that steal our strength.  Maybe this can be optional/opt-in by company, but the high-costs and large holes of network defense right now are letting 100's of billions of $ fly out of the country every year.  There may eventually be a separate secure network and the wild-wild west internet we know today.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If economic strength , drives political strength and international standing ( hopefully no one has any illusions that it does n't do both ) .
And USA 's economic strength is currently predicated on intellectual property ( which can then manufactured somewhere else ) then how do we ( as a nation...or any nation ) protect ourselves from the array of network attacks that are launched against us ?
I think some sort of national firewall or cooperative agreement is a good idea to help protect against those countries that steal our strength .
Maybe this can be optional/opt-in by company , but the high-costs and large holes of network defense right now are letting 100 's of billions of $ fly out of the country every year .
There may eventually be a separate secure network and the wild-wild west internet we know today .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If economic strength, drives political strength and international standing (hopefully no one has any illusions that it doesn't do both).
And USA's economic strength is currently predicated on intellectual property (which can then manufactured somewhere else) then how do we (as a nation...or any nation) protect ourselves from the array of network attacks that are launched against us?
I think some sort of national firewall or cooperative agreement is a good idea to help protect against those countries that steal our strength.
Maybe this can be optional/opt-in by company, but the high-costs and large holes of network defense right now are letting 100's of billions of $ fly out of the country every year.
There may eventually be a separate secure network and the wild-wild west internet we know today.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935246</id>
	<title>Same as anyone else</title>
	<author>sakdoctor</author>
	<datestamp>1264700640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How exactly would the military fight a cyber war?</p></div><p>Post a carefully worded call to arms on 4chan.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How exactly would the military fight a cyber war ? Post a carefully worded call to arms on 4chan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How exactly would the military fight a cyber war?Post a carefully worded call to arms on 4chan.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30939274</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264710900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Alan Turing</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Alan Turing</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Alan Turing</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936690</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935422</id>
	<title>American Homeland Defense Firewall?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264701060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>So are they now going to propose a Homeland Defense Firewall, to protect and defend american business and citizens against foreign cyber attacks?  Or will they be "simply monitoring" the routers coming in and out of the country? I wouldn't be surprised. Of course, no privacy invasions, no espionage will occur over the monitoring channels.  Only criminal and terrorist investigation. And even then, only with a warrant. Of course we can be assured of that. Of course you can trust the military to always defend Americans and respect American law and use of decency. Of course. We all agree on that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So are they now going to propose a Homeland Defense Firewall , to protect and defend american business and citizens against foreign cyber attacks ?
Or will they be " simply monitoring " the routers coming in and out of the country ?
I would n't be surprised .
Of course , no privacy invasions , no espionage will occur over the monitoring channels .
Only criminal and terrorist investigation .
And even then , only with a warrant .
Of course we can be assured of that .
Of course you can trust the military to always defend Americans and respect American law and use of decency .
Of course .
We all agree on that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So are they now going to propose a Homeland Defense Firewall, to protect and defend american business and citizens against foreign cyber attacks?
Or will they be "simply monitoring" the routers coming in and out of the country?
I wouldn't be surprised.
Of course, no privacy invasions, no espionage will occur over the monitoring channels.
Only criminal and terrorist investigation.
And even then, only with a warrant.
Of course we can be assured of that.
Of course you can trust the military to always defend Americans and respect American law and use of decency.
Of course.
We all agree on that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936196</id>
	<title>Re:American Homeland Defense Firewall?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264703100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They might put up some defenses for military systems, but they wouldn't be monitoring it. They're job is to conduct Cyber <b>Warfare</b>.</p><p>How often do you see the -Military- performing investigations on US Soil?</p><p>War and espionage are on a blurry line but you can rest assured the Armed forces are in it for the War. The FBI will do domestic cases and the CIA Will try to keep up to date on wold cyber affairs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They might put up some defenses for military systems , but they would n't be monitoring it .
They 're job is to conduct Cyber Warfare.How often do you see the -Military- performing investigations on US Soil ? War and espionage are on a blurry line but you can rest assured the Armed forces are in it for the War .
The FBI will do domestic cases and the CIA Will try to keep up to date on wold cyber affairs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They might put up some defenses for military systems, but they wouldn't be monitoring it.
They're job is to conduct Cyber Warfare.How often do you see the -Military- performing investigations on US Soil?War and espionage are on a blurry line but you can rest assured the Armed forces are in it for the War.
The FBI will do domestic cases and the CIA Will try to keep up to date on wold cyber affairs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30937172</id>
	<title>lets have a pretend war with these twits</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264705980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll bet i can have a better armed force ready in half a day then these twits do in how long this take?<br>blah blah im waiting to submit<br>blah blah im waiting to submit<br>blah blah im waiting to submit<br>blah blah im waiting to submit</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll bet i can have a better armed force ready in half a day then these twits do in how long this take ? blah blah im waiting to submitblah blah im waiting to submitblah blah im waiting to submitblah blah im waiting to submit</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll bet i can have a better armed force ready in half a day then these twits do in how long this take?blah blah im waiting to submitblah blah im waiting to submitblah blah im waiting to submitblah blah im waiting to submit</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935488</id>
	<title>Re:Stop saying cyber</title>
	<author>ndogg</author>
	<datestamp>1264701180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh, come on, the government needs some sort of iBranding.  And if it's that time of the month, they can just get an iPad.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , come on , the government needs some sort of iBranding .
And if it 's that time of the month , they can just get an iPad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, come on, the government needs some sort of iBranding.
And if it's that time of the month, they can just get an iPad.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30937556</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>ThatsNotPudding</author>
	<datestamp>1264706820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>...and if you're over 30 you're too old.</p></div></blockquote><p>You haven't been paying close enough to their despiration (and attrition).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...and if you 're over 30 you 're too old.You have n't been paying close enough to their despiration ( and attrition ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and if you're over 30 you're too old.You haven't been paying close enough to their despiration (and attrition).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936512</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your post is so full of tired stereotypes it's impossible to read.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your post is so full of tired stereotypes it 's impossible to read .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your post is so full of tired stereotypes it's impossible to read.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935444</id>
	<title>Re:Same as anyone else</title>
	<author>ndogg</author>
	<datestamp>1264701120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or just post their web site posted to the front page of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or just post their web site posted to the front page of /. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or just post their web site posted to the front page of /..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935246</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936474</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"They never did come up with a good answer to how they can recruit the necessary talent when the aforementioned is generally anti-authoritarian."</p><p>Not only that, but I've been in MD for a year now and every day I see job postings for "Linux Sys Admin with active full scope poly clearances" and I keep wondering where the hell they expect to find them.  I mean it's one thing to find a good Linux sys admin but finding one with an active clearance?  If you do find one you'd just be stealing them from some other agency/contractor.</p><p>NSA is ramping up a cyber security force at Ft. Meade.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" They never did come up with a good answer to how they can recruit the necessary talent when the aforementioned is generally anti-authoritarian .
" Not only that , but I 've been in MD for a year now and every day I see job postings for " Linux Sys Admin with active full scope poly clearances " and I keep wondering where the hell they expect to find them .
I mean it 's one thing to find a good Linux sys admin but finding one with an active clearance ?
If you do find one you 'd just be stealing them from some other agency/contractor.NSA is ramping up a cyber security force at Ft. Meade .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"They never did come up with a good answer to how they can recruit the necessary talent when the aforementioned is generally anti-authoritarian.
"Not only that, but I've been in MD for a year now and every day I see job postings for "Linux Sys Admin with active full scope poly clearances" and I keep wondering where the hell they expect to find them.
I mean it's one thing to find a good Linux sys admin but finding one with an active clearance?
If you do find one you'd just be stealing them from some other agency/contractor.NSA is ramping up a cyber security force at Ft. Meade.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936798</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264704900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is that the case? no wonder all Science and Technology was created by Men... because we can't spot patterns, or multitask as easily...<br>Yeah, keep telling yourself your fairy tales, a great defence mechanism...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is that the case ?
no wonder all Science and Technology was created by Men... because we ca n't spot patterns , or multitask as easily...Yeah , keep telling yourself your fairy tales , a great defence mechanism.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is that the case?
no wonder all Science and Technology was created by Men... because we can't spot patterns, or multitask as easily...Yeah, keep telling yourself your fairy tales, a great defence mechanism...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</id>
	<title>Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264701420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>to be populated by mirror computers and inhabited by myriad software sim-people 'replicants,' and used as a firing range in which to develop the art of cyber warfare.")</p></div><p>Oh, yeah, I remember these guys. We invited the general to come and post on slashdot a few years back. They never did come up with a good answer to how they can recruit the necessary talent when the aforementioned is generally anti-authoritarian. Hacking, or "cyberwarfare", or whatever you want to call it, all requires a high degree of creativity combined with the ability to see patterns in seemingly random information. Both of these skillsets are a rarity in the general population -- most people are linear sequential thinkers, which means they can't start one task without stopping another. Everything about this theatre is contrary to conventional military discipline.</p><p>This is an organization that still believes that only men should be in their little club, gays are bad, and if you're over 30 you're too old. Maybe that works well when you're comparing gun sizes, but in this theatre the groups they're excluding have exactly the human resources such an operation needs: Women are generally able to multitask and see the "big picture" easier than men, gays stereotypically gravitate towards creative endeavors (theatre, graphic design, etc.), and the over 30 crowd has exactly the kind of in-depth understanding of the technology and experience necessary to use it that a bunch of twenty-somethings just can't match, no matter how good the training.</p><p>They're putting themselves at a huge handicap -- and they can't afford to do that. Especially when China has more <i>honor</i> students than we have students in whole. They can afford to be prejudiced. They can afford to throw a million people over a cliff to fund public works projects. Meanwhile, our antiquidated notions of what a soldier is puts us at a substantial risk of being obliterated in the global theatre.</p><p>Sad. Where's an angry four star general when you need one?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>to be populated by mirror computers and inhabited by myriad software sim-people 'replicants, ' and used as a firing range in which to develop the art of cyber warfare .
" ) Oh , yeah , I remember these guys .
We invited the general to come and post on slashdot a few years back .
They never did come up with a good answer to how they can recruit the necessary talent when the aforementioned is generally anti-authoritarian .
Hacking , or " cyberwarfare " , or whatever you want to call it , all requires a high degree of creativity combined with the ability to see patterns in seemingly random information .
Both of these skillsets are a rarity in the general population -- most people are linear sequential thinkers , which means they ca n't start one task without stopping another .
Everything about this theatre is contrary to conventional military discipline.This is an organization that still believes that only men should be in their little club , gays are bad , and if you 're over 30 you 're too old .
Maybe that works well when you 're comparing gun sizes , but in this theatre the groups they 're excluding have exactly the human resources such an operation needs : Women are generally able to multitask and see the " big picture " easier than men , gays stereotypically gravitate towards creative endeavors ( theatre , graphic design , etc .
) , and the over 30 crowd has exactly the kind of in-depth understanding of the technology and experience necessary to use it that a bunch of twenty-somethings just ca n't match , no matter how good the training.They 're putting themselves at a huge handicap -- and they ca n't afford to do that .
Especially when China has more honor students than we have students in whole .
They can afford to be prejudiced .
They can afford to throw a million people over a cliff to fund public works projects .
Meanwhile , our antiquidated notions of what a soldier is puts us at a substantial risk of being obliterated in the global theatre.Sad .
Where 's an angry four star general when you need one ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to be populated by mirror computers and inhabited by myriad software sim-people 'replicants,' and used as a firing range in which to develop the art of cyber warfare.
")Oh, yeah, I remember these guys.
We invited the general to come and post on slashdot a few years back.
They never did come up with a good answer to how they can recruit the necessary talent when the aforementioned is generally anti-authoritarian.
Hacking, or "cyberwarfare", or whatever you want to call it, all requires a high degree of creativity combined with the ability to see patterns in seemingly random information.
Both of these skillsets are a rarity in the general population -- most people are linear sequential thinkers, which means they can't start one task without stopping another.
Everything about this theatre is contrary to conventional military discipline.This is an organization that still believes that only men should be in their little club, gays are bad, and if you're over 30 you're too old.
Maybe that works well when you're comparing gun sizes, but in this theatre the groups they're excluding have exactly the human resources such an operation needs: Women are generally able to multitask and see the "big picture" easier than men, gays stereotypically gravitate towards creative endeavors (theatre, graphic design, etc.
), and the over 30 crowd has exactly the kind of in-depth understanding of the technology and experience necessary to use it that a bunch of twenty-somethings just can't match, no matter how good the training.They're putting themselves at a huge handicap -- and they can't afford to do that.
Especially when China has more honor students than we have students in whole.
They can afford to be prejudiced.
They can afford to throw a million people over a cliff to fund public works projects.
Meanwhile, our antiquidated notions of what a soldier is puts us at a substantial risk of being obliterated in the global theatre.Sad.
Where's an angry four star general when you need one?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935392</id>
	<title>Re:Stop saying cyber</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264701000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's the right prefix to use, why does it bother you so much?</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the right prefix to use , why does it bother you so much ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the right prefix to use, why does it bother you so much?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936308</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Yold</author>
	<datestamp>1264703520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I walked into the Navy recruiter about a year ago, and asked him what I could in the Navy with a degrees in computer sciences and statistics. I am also physically-fit and have a high GPA. The officer (not enlisted) basically told me "not a goddamn thing, try the Army". The Army guy was the typical pushy recruiter; he told me to enlist and try for OCS (I'd probably end up on a convoy in Afghanistan).</p><p>I disagree with what you said about gays and women in the military; recent statistics suggest that 33\% percent of female veterans have been raped, and 70\% experienced some form of sexual harassment. As for gays being "more creative", that is a stereotype.  Furthermore "hacking" is not really a creative endeavor in the artistic sense, it is more analytical and methodological. The best hackers are human compilers (i.e. understand how C code may be exploited), and have encyclopedic knowledge of security. I agree that age shouldn't matter for people with a high degree of technical skills (if under 50).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I walked into the Navy recruiter about a year ago , and asked him what I could in the Navy with a degrees in computer sciences and statistics .
I am also physically-fit and have a high GPA .
The officer ( not enlisted ) basically told me " not a goddamn thing , try the Army " .
The Army guy was the typical pushy recruiter ; he told me to enlist and try for OCS ( I 'd probably end up on a convoy in Afghanistan ) .I disagree with what you said about gays and women in the military ; recent statistics suggest that 33 \ % percent of female veterans have been raped , and 70 \ % experienced some form of sexual harassment .
As for gays being " more creative " , that is a stereotype .
Furthermore " hacking " is not really a creative endeavor in the artistic sense , it is more analytical and methodological .
The best hackers are human compilers ( i.e .
understand how C code may be exploited ) , and have encyclopedic knowledge of security .
I agree that age should n't matter for people with a high degree of technical skills ( if under 50 ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I walked into the Navy recruiter about a year ago, and asked him what I could in the Navy with a degrees in computer sciences and statistics.
I am also physically-fit and have a high GPA.
The officer (not enlisted) basically told me "not a goddamn thing, try the Army".
The Army guy was the typical pushy recruiter; he told me to enlist and try for OCS (I'd probably end up on a convoy in Afghanistan).I disagree with what you said about gays and women in the military; recent statistics suggest that 33\% percent of female veterans have been raped, and 70\% experienced some form of sexual harassment.
As for gays being "more creative", that is a stereotype.
Furthermore "hacking" is not really a creative endeavor in the artistic sense, it is more analytical and methodological.
The best hackers are human compilers (i.e.
understand how C code may be exploited), and have encyclopedic knowledge of security.
I agree that age shouldn't matter for people with a high degree of technical skills (if under 50).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30960754</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264848660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i am over 50 give me your ip<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i am over 50 give me your ip : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i am over 50 give me your ip :-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936740</id>
	<title>codename</title>
	<author>hitmark</author>
	<datestamp>1264704780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>echo mirage?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>echo mirage ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>echo mirage?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936540</id>
	<title>Re:Cyberwarfare?</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1264704240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>They never did come up with a good answer to how they can recruit the necessary talent when the aforementioned is generally anti-authoritarian.</p></div></blockquote><p>The same way they recruit very bright people for other specialized fields - they recruit the people who aren't anti-authoritarian, or who are anti-authoritarian but can submerge that enough to get along and do their jobs properly.  (The Submarine Service and the various special forces are well stocked with the latter.)  It may not appeal to stereotypical 'average Slashdotter', but then that is a fairly small demographic even within the IT world.<br>
&nbsp; </p><blockquote><div><p>Everything about this theatre is contrary to conventional military discipline.</p></div></blockquote><p>Or so goes the meme/stereotype outside the military...  In reality, the military knows very well how to handle a wide variety of personality types.  Half the guys on my crew (including me) would have been in the brig had we been in the surface Navy rather than the Submarine Force.  But our chain-of-command knew well the demands of dealing with the energy of guys in their early to mid twenties with above average intelligence - so long as we did our jobs, didn't endanger ships safety, and didn't cause physical harm... almost the sky was the limit.<br>
&nbsp; </p><blockquote><div><p>This is an organization that still believes that only men should be in their little club, gays are bad, and if you're over 30 you're too old. Maybe that works well when you're comparing gun sizes, but in this theatre the groups they're excluding have exactly the human resources such an operation needs: Women are generally able to multitask and see the "big picture" easier than men, gays stereotypically gravitate towards creative endeavors (theatre, graphic design, etc.), and the over 30 crowd has exactly the kind of in-depth understanding of the technology and experience necessary to use it that a bunch of twenty-somethings just can't match, no matter how good the training.</p></div></blockquote><p>Again with the stereotypes...  First off, this is 2010 not 1910.  There's been women in the service for decades now.  The military 'officially' believes gays are bad because the law requires it, down at the working troop level it's not a problem.  And given the number of chiefs and senior offices I knew and know that are over thirty...  Well, like the rest of your stereotypes, you're simply wrong.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They never did come up with a good answer to how they can recruit the necessary talent when the aforementioned is generally anti-authoritarian.The same way they recruit very bright people for other specialized fields - they recruit the people who are n't anti-authoritarian , or who are anti-authoritarian but can submerge that enough to get along and do their jobs properly .
( The Submarine Service and the various special forces are well stocked with the latter .
) It may not appeal to stereotypical 'average Slashdotter ' , but then that is a fairly small demographic even within the IT world .
  Everything about this theatre is contrary to conventional military discipline.Or so goes the meme/stereotype outside the military... In reality , the military knows very well how to handle a wide variety of personality types .
Half the guys on my crew ( including me ) would have been in the brig had we been in the surface Navy rather than the Submarine Force .
But our chain-of-command knew well the demands of dealing with the energy of guys in their early to mid twenties with above average intelligence - so long as we did our jobs , did n't endanger ships safety , and did n't cause physical harm... almost the sky was the limit .
  This is an organization that still believes that only men should be in their little club , gays are bad , and if you 're over 30 you 're too old .
Maybe that works well when you 're comparing gun sizes , but in this theatre the groups they 're excluding have exactly the human resources such an operation needs : Women are generally able to multitask and see the " big picture " easier than men , gays stereotypically gravitate towards creative endeavors ( theatre , graphic design , etc .
) , and the over 30 crowd has exactly the kind of in-depth understanding of the technology and experience necessary to use it that a bunch of twenty-somethings just ca n't match , no matter how good the training.Again with the stereotypes... First off , this is 2010 not 1910 .
There 's been women in the service for decades now .
The military 'officially ' believes gays are bad because the law requires it , down at the working troop level it 's not a problem .
And given the number of chiefs and senior offices I knew and know that are over thirty... Well , like the rest of your stereotypes , you 're simply wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They never did come up with a good answer to how they can recruit the necessary talent when the aforementioned is generally anti-authoritarian.The same way they recruit very bright people for other specialized fields - they recruit the people who aren't anti-authoritarian, or who are anti-authoritarian but can submerge that enough to get along and do their jobs properly.
(The Submarine Service and the various special forces are well stocked with the latter.
)  It may not appeal to stereotypical 'average Slashdotter', but then that is a fairly small demographic even within the IT world.
  Everything about this theatre is contrary to conventional military discipline.Or so goes the meme/stereotype outside the military...  In reality, the military knows very well how to handle a wide variety of personality types.
Half the guys on my crew (including me) would have been in the brig had we been in the surface Navy rather than the Submarine Force.
But our chain-of-command knew well the demands of dealing with the energy of guys in their early to mid twenties with above average intelligence - so long as we did our jobs, didn't endanger ships safety, and didn't cause physical harm... almost the sky was the limit.
  This is an organization that still believes that only men should be in their little club, gays are bad, and if you're over 30 you're too old.
Maybe that works well when you're comparing gun sizes, but in this theatre the groups they're excluding have exactly the human resources such an operation needs: Women are generally able to multitask and see the "big picture" easier than men, gays stereotypically gravitate towards creative endeavors (theatre, graphic design, etc.
), and the over 30 crowd has exactly the kind of in-depth understanding of the technology and experience necessary to use it that a bunch of twenty-somethings just can't match, no matter how good the training.Again with the stereotypes...  First off, this is 2010 not 1910.
There's been women in the service for decades now.
The military 'officially' believes gays are bad because the law requires it, down at the working troop level it's not a problem.
And given the number of chiefs and senior offices I knew and know that are over thirty...  Well, like the rest of your stereotypes, you're simply wrong.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30945252</id>
	<title>Operators are Standing By</title>
	<author>agrif</author>
	<datestamp>1264695000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, really, how many of us came here hoping, at least for a second, that it would be called Public Security Section 9?</p><p>It's OK, don't be ashamed. You're among friends.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , really , how many of us came here hoping , at least for a second , that it would be called Public Security Section 9 ? It 's OK , do n't be ashamed .
You 're among friends .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, really, how many of us came here hoping, at least for a second, that it would be called Public Security Section 9?It's OK, don't be ashamed.
You're among friends.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935654</id>
	<title>Re:Stop saying cyber</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1264701600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://slashdot.org/~sm62704/journal/141778" title="slashdot.org">I'm a cyborg,</a> [slashdot.org] you insensitive clod!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a cyborg , [ slashdot.org ] you insensitive clod !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a cyborg, [slashdot.org] you insensitive clod!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30944446</id>
	<title>A World Populated By Replicants?</title>
	<author>CodeBuster</author>
	<datestamp>1264688340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hmmm...maybe we'll have to bring back Harrison Ford to "retire" all of these replicants;</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmmm...maybe we 'll have to bring back Harrison Ford to " retire " all of these replicants ;</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmmm...maybe we'll have to bring back Harrison Ford to "retire" all of these replicants;</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30939312</id>
	<title>Created by Jay Rockefeller..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264711080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The same person who says the internet never should have existed creates a military unit that can kill the internet.</p><p>Fuck the rockefellers, evil satanist bastards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The same person who says the internet never should have existed creates a military unit that can kill the internet.Fuck the rockefellers , evil satanist bastards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The same person who says the internet never should have existed creates a military unit that can kill the internet.Fuck the rockefellers, evil satanist bastards.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30943246</id>
	<title>Re:Stop saying cyber</title>
	<author>Gyorg\_Lavode</author>
	<datestamp>1264680780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I feel for you.  But the other side of the coin is what name DO you give guys who are attacking or defending systems on a network?  The problem is no matter what you call them, it sounds cliche. Military hackers.  Cyber Warriors.  Network fighters.  Nerd Soldiers.  None of it's good.  I say we all just use 'cyber' and feel slightly guilty about it because we know it doesn't really work but don't have anything better.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I feel for you .
But the other side of the coin is what name DO you give guys who are attacking or defending systems on a network ?
The problem is no matter what you call them , it sounds cliche .
Military hackers .
Cyber Warriors .
Network fighters .
Nerd Soldiers .
None of it 's good .
I say we all just use 'cyber ' and feel slightly guilty about it because we know it does n't really work but do n't have anything better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I feel for you.
But the other side of the coin is what name DO you give guys who are attacking or defending systems on a network?
The problem is no matter what you call them, it sounds cliche.
Military hackers.
Cyber Warriors.
Network fighters.
Nerd Soldiers.
None of it's good.
I say we all just use 'cyber' and feel slightly guilty about it because we know it doesn't really work but don't have anything better.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935240</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935442</id>
	<title>Important notice</title>
	<author>dkleinsc</author>
	<datestamp>1264701120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Any comments in this story will be monitored by the 24th Air Force for suspicious activity. Suspicious activity includes disclosing the activities of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... ow! hey! don't taze me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... NO CARRIER</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Any comments in this story will be monitored by the 24th Air Force for suspicious activity .
Suspicious activity includes disclosing the activities of ... ow ! hey !
do n't taze me ... NO CARRIER</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any comments in this story will be monitored by the 24th Air Force for suspicious activity.
Suspicious activity includes disclosing the activities of ... ow! hey!
don't taze me ... NO CARRIER</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30940000</id>
	<title>Re:AF cyberspace command is a joke...</title>
	<author>L3370</author>
	<datestamp>1264670040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are plenty of people in the military with the competency to do the task at hand. Bringing the talent in is NOT the issue. Its KEEPING THEM.
A person that enlists in the Air Force for 4-6 years into a computer systems job has the oppurtunity to gain valuable skills. <br> <br>
On the outside, 4-6 years of experience with those skills can get you double the salary the military can provide. Paycheck rules.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are plenty of people in the military with the competency to do the task at hand .
Bringing the talent in is NOT the issue .
Its KEEPING THEM .
A person that enlists in the Air Force for 4-6 years into a computer systems job has the oppurtunity to gain valuable skills .
On the outside , 4-6 years of experience with those skills can get you double the salary the military can provide .
Paycheck rules .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are plenty of people in the military with the competency to do the task at hand.
Bringing the talent in is NOT the issue.
Its KEEPING THEM.
A person that enlists in the Air Force for 4-6 years into a computer systems job has the oppurtunity to gain valuable skills.
On the outside, 4-6 years of experience with those skills can get you double the salary the military can provide.
Paycheck rules.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935662</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935804</id>
	<title>Army of Darkness</title>
	<author>gmuslera</author>
	<datestamp>1264702020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In cyberspace, traditional "army" concepts have no meaning, specially the partt when we talk about huge number of active/willing participants. The only thing that could have army-like numbers are zombie PCs, something that "should" not be used (your country hacking your pc to attack what they consider enemies? and leaving the door open so potentially youir enemy could use your pc too?. They should behave as firefighters (taking measures/educating to limit a lot the odds that someone gets zombified) or terrorists/commandos (skilled individuals could make big differences).<br><br>In fact, the weapons in cyberwar only have meaning because no or weak defenses. And a good attack would be improving those "defenses", both at consumer level (they should punish or do official statements about recommending NOT using vulnerable software, as i.e. did several countries last weeks about IE, promote secure practices and alternative software and platforms, etc) as an enterprise level (from security scanning/assessment of critical and general places). And that is no work of military but of government.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In cyberspace , traditional " army " concepts have no meaning , specially the partt when we talk about huge number of active/willing participants .
The only thing that could have army-like numbers are zombie PCs , something that " should " not be used ( your country hacking your pc to attack what they consider enemies ?
and leaving the door open so potentially youir enemy could use your pc too ? .
They should behave as firefighters ( taking measures/educating to limit a lot the odds that someone gets zombified ) or terrorists/commandos ( skilled individuals could make big differences ) .In fact , the weapons in cyberwar only have meaning because no or weak defenses .
And a good attack would be improving those " defenses " , both at consumer level ( they should punish or do official statements about recommending NOT using vulnerable software , as i.e .
did several countries last weeks about IE , promote secure practices and alternative software and platforms , etc ) as an enterprise level ( from security scanning/assessment of critical and general places ) .
And that is no work of military but of government .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In cyberspace, traditional "army" concepts have no meaning, specially the partt when we talk about huge number of active/willing participants.
The only thing that could have army-like numbers are zombie PCs, something that "should" not be used (your country hacking your pc to attack what they consider enemies?
and leaving the door open so potentially youir enemy could use your pc too?.
They should behave as firefighters (taking measures/educating to limit a lot the odds that someone gets zombified) or terrorists/commandos (skilled individuals could make big differences).In fact, the weapons in cyberwar only have meaning because no or weak defenses.
And a good attack would be improving those "defenses", both at consumer level (they should punish or do official statements about recommending NOT using vulnerable software, as i.e.
did several countries last weeks about IE, promote secure practices and alternative software and platforms, etc) as an enterprise level (from security scanning/assessment of critical and general places).
And that is no work of military but of government.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30936190</id>
	<title>Inspiring!</title>
	<author>lymond01</author>
	<datestamp>1264703100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is a threat to our knowledge, our words, our very sense of self.  It permeates the ether, watching, waiting for us to lower our guard.  Although we sit on the brink of moral decay, staring back from the abyss towards an enemy unseen, we shall not falter in our duty.  We must stand firm against these intruders.  Our very credit scores are at stake.  And I tell you this: wherever they are, they will be met with strength.  We shall fight them on the wireless.  We shall fight them at the backbone.  We shall never surrender.  And though these days may be marked as the darkest days in the history of the MacOS, it is history that will one day show that we did not give ground where it was not taken.  G-Force!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is a threat to our knowledge , our words , our very sense of self .
It permeates the ether , watching , waiting for us to lower our guard .
Although we sit on the brink of moral decay , staring back from the abyss towards an enemy unseen , we shall not falter in our duty .
We must stand firm against these intruders .
Our very credit scores are at stake .
And I tell you this : wherever they are , they will be met with strength .
We shall fight them on the wireless .
We shall fight them at the backbone .
We shall never surrender .
And though these days may be marked as the darkest days in the history of the MacOS , it is history that will one day show that we did not give ground where it was not taken .
G-Force !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is a threat to our knowledge, our words, our very sense of self.
It permeates the ether, watching, waiting for us to lower our guard.
Although we sit on the brink of moral decay, staring back from the abyss towards an enemy unseen, we shall not falter in our duty.
We must stand firm against these intruders.
Our very credit scores are at stake.
And I tell you this: wherever they are, they will be met with strength.
We shall fight them on the wireless.
We shall fight them at the backbone.
We shall never surrender.
And though these days may be marked as the darkest days in the history of the MacOS, it is history that will one day show that we did not give ground where it was not taken.
G-Force!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30935662</id>
	<title>AF cyberspace command is a joke...</title>
	<author>Anik315</author>
	<datestamp>1264701600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most people in the military are severely lacking in kind of skills needed to protect America's electronic infrastructure.  It has to do with military culture more than anything else.  Techies just don't get promoted the way fighter pilots do.  I would shut the whole thing down and start a new branch or something.  Otherwise, it's a giant waste of money.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most people in the military are severely lacking in kind of skills needed to protect America 's electronic infrastructure .
It has to do with military culture more than anything else .
Techies just do n't get promoted the way fighter pilots do .
I would shut the whole thing down and start a new branch or something .
Otherwise , it 's a giant waste of money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most people in the military are severely lacking in kind of skills needed to protect America's electronic infrastructure.
It has to do with military culture more than anything else.
Techies just don't get promoted the way fighter pilots do.
I would shut the whole thing down and start a new branch or something.
Otherwise, it's a giant waste of money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_28_1552239_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_28_1552239.30939274
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