<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_27_064236</id>
	<title>Microsoft Facing Class-Action Suit Over Xbox Live Points</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1264581900000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader tips news that a lawyer in Pennsylvania has <a href="http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/microsoft\_news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=222400289">filed a class-action lawsuit against Microsoft</a>, alleging that the company's handling of Xbox Live transactions is, in some cases, fraudulent.
<i>"Samuel Lassoff, of Horsham, PA, said an invoice he received earlier this month from Microsoft included charges for purchases he couldn't complete due to a balky download system &mdash; and he claimed it wasn't an accident. Microsoft 'engaged in a scheme to unjustly enrich itself through their fraudulent handling' of his account, Lassoff charged in papers filed earlier this week in US District Court for Eastern Pennsylvania. ... 'Microsoft breached that contract by collecting revenues for digital goods and services which were not provided,' Lassoff said in his lawsuit."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader tips news that a lawyer in Pennsylvania has filed a class-action lawsuit against Microsoft , alleging that the company 's handling of Xbox Live transactions is , in some cases , fraudulent .
" Samuel Lassoff , of Horsham , PA , said an invoice he received earlier this month from Microsoft included charges for purchases he could n't complete due to a balky download system    and he claimed it was n't an accident .
Microsoft 'engaged in a scheme to unjustly enrich itself through their fraudulent handling ' of his account , Lassoff charged in papers filed earlier this week in US District Court for Eastern Pennsylvania .
... 'Microsoft breached that contract by collecting revenues for digital goods and services which were not provided, ' Lassoff said in his lawsuit .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader tips news that a lawyer in Pennsylvania has filed a class-action lawsuit against Microsoft, alleging that the company's handling of Xbox Live transactions is, in some cases, fraudulent.
"Samuel Lassoff, of Horsham, PA, said an invoice he received earlier this month from Microsoft included charges for purchases he couldn't complete due to a balky download system — and he claimed it wasn't an accident.
Microsoft 'engaged in a scheme to unjustly enrich itself through their fraudulent handling' of his account, Lassoff charged in papers filed earlier this week in US District Court for Eastern Pennsylvania.
... 'Microsoft breached that contract by collecting revenues for digital goods and services which were not provided,' Lassoff said in his lawsuit.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914694</id>
	<title>Never attribute to malice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264586100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.</p><p>But they still have a duty to correct their mistakes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.But they still have a duty to correct their mistakes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.But they still have a duty to correct their mistakes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30917320</id>
	<title>Re:XBox Live points is definitly a game</title>
	<author>LordVader717</author>
	<datestamp>1264607880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is routine practice for many types of services. My VOIP provider only accepts advance payments and it's most popular for mobile phone contracts. It saves transaction costs and makes the system a lot simpler. It isn't any different from stores offering gift vouchers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is routine practice for many types of services .
My VOIP provider only accepts advance payments and it 's most popular for mobile phone contracts .
It saves transaction costs and makes the system a lot simpler .
It is n't any different from stores offering gift vouchers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is routine practice for many types of services.
My VOIP provider only accepts advance payments and it's most popular for mobile phone contracts.
It saves transaction costs and makes the system a lot simpler.
It isn't any different from stores offering gift vouchers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914728</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30997250</id>
	<title>Re:Screw Resolving Things "Peacefully"...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265133000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>just wanted to say,   the sueing system is lame.</p><p>1 year and 6 months ago, i was invovled with a 3-5 mph accident.  (scammer actually who forced the accident) and even though he accepted and cashed the check my insurance gave him,<br>he is able to sue the private party for up to 3 years.  He did the papers and everything to take me to for the maximum 7500 us dollars available.   Even though he lied (misrepresented his vehicle and withheld information) 1 week before the court date my insurance agent had to give the guy a bigger check than before.   So basically, if you sue you will get money.  even if its fraudulent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>just wanted to say , the sueing system is lame.1 year and 6 months ago , i was invovled with a 3-5 mph accident .
( scammer actually who forced the accident ) and even though he accepted and cashed the check my insurance gave him,he is able to sue the private party for up to 3 years .
He did the papers and everything to take me to for the maximum 7500 us dollars available .
Even though he lied ( misrepresented his vehicle and withheld information ) 1 week before the court date my insurance agent had to give the guy a bigger check than before .
So basically , if you sue you will get money .
even if its fraudulent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>just wanted to say,   the sueing system is lame.1 year and 6 months ago, i was invovled with a 3-5 mph accident.
(scammer actually who forced the accident) and even though he accepted and cashed the check my insurance gave him,he is able to sue the private party for up to 3 years.
He did the papers and everything to take me to for the maximum 7500 us dollars available.
Even though he lied (misrepresented his vehicle and withheld information) 1 week before the court date my insurance agent had to give the guy a bigger check than before.
So basically, if you sue you will get money.
even if its fraudulent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914892</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914718</id>
	<title>Something doesn't sound right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264586580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>He blames a "balky download system" but when you buy something on xbox live. It doesn't not matter if the download completes. The item is tied to your account when you buy it, and you can download it and redownload it whenever you want. As the article points out this lawyer also seems a little shady (suing a Casino because a drunk attacked him). <br> <br> One thing the article did mention that I liked was that MS is considering doing away with points. I know I always have an odd number of points on my account because of so many different denominations of DLC prices. Thats one thing I like about my PS3, it charges my credit card directly OR I can chose to add a certain amount of money to my account. Not trying to incite a flamewar between PS3/360, I have both and love them both for different reasons.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He blames a " balky download system " but when you buy something on xbox live .
It does n't not matter if the download completes .
The item is tied to your account when you buy it , and you can download it and redownload it whenever you want .
As the article points out this lawyer also seems a little shady ( suing a Casino because a drunk attacked him ) .
One thing the article did mention that I liked was that MS is considering doing away with points .
I know I always have an odd number of points on my account because of so many different denominations of DLC prices .
Thats one thing I like about my PS3 , it charges my credit card directly OR I can chose to add a certain amount of money to my account .
Not trying to incite a flamewar between PS3/360 , I have both and love them both for different reasons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He blames a "balky download system" but when you buy something on xbox live.
It doesn't not matter if the download completes.
The item is tied to your account when you buy it, and you can download it and redownload it whenever you want.
As the article points out this lawyer also seems a little shady (suing a Casino because a drunk attacked him).
One thing the article did mention that I liked was that MS is considering doing away with points.
I know I always have an odd number of points on my account because of so many different denominations of DLC prices.
Thats one thing I like about my PS3, it charges my credit card directly OR I can chose to add a certain amount of money to my account.
Not trying to incite a flamewar between PS3/360, I have both and love them both for different reasons.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30916362</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264603380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think he's going to get much of anywhere...it states in the Xbox Live TOS that content is not guaranteed or warranted in any shape or form, so if you completed the transaction and started the download, but due to whatever issue you were not able to complete it, they are not held responsible.  In addition, they aren't responsible for bad content that renders a game or console unusable, though when you think about it this is a bit backwards, since they generally won't allow DLC unless they approve it...</p><p>I think the Points system is pretty useful for adding extra value to a game for usually reasonable prices.  I haven't personally bought any points, since I can't seem to justify it with my wife, but I think it makes sense.  Granted, I also think that M$ is nothing short of a monopoly, that they overcharge for all their products because they know most users don't have a choice or don't know the difference, and their opposition to open source is appalling.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think he 's going to get much of anywhere...it states in the Xbox Live TOS that content is not guaranteed or warranted in any shape or form , so if you completed the transaction and started the download , but due to whatever issue you were not able to complete it , they are not held responsible .
In addition , they are n't responsible for bad content that renders a game or console unusable , though when you think about it this is a bit backwards , since they generally wo n't allow DLC unless they approve it...I think the Points system is pretty useful for adding extra value to a game for usually reasonable prices .
I have n't personally bought any points , since I ca n't seem to justify it with my wife , but I think it makes sense .
Granted , I also think that M $ is nothing short of a monopoly , that they overcharge for all their products because they know most users do n't have a choice or do n't know the difference , and their opposition to open source is appalling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think he's going to get much of anywhere...it states in the Xbox Live TOS that content is not guaranteed or warranted in any shape or form, so if you completed the transaction and started the download, but due to whatever issue you were not able to complete it, they are not held responsible.
In addition, they aren't responsible for bad content that renders a game or console unusable, though when you think about it this is a bit backwards, since they generally won't allow DLC unless they approve it...I think the Points system is pretty useful for adding extra value to a game for usually reasonable prices.
I haven't personally bought any points, since I can't seem to justify it with my wife, but I think it makes sense.
Granted, I also think that M$ is nothing short of a monopoly, that they overcharge for all their products because they know most users don't have a choice or don't know the difference, and their opposition to open source is appalling.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914890</id>
	<title>Re:XBox Live points is definitly a game</title>
	<author>delinear</author>
	<datestamp>1264589220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except where the theory falls down is, once they've got your cash, they don't care if you spend the points or not. It's not like they're providing a physical product and get some kind of real world benefit in holding onto your money while delaying the delivery of that product as long as possible.</p><p>Also, with purchases as low as 80 points, you can, if you really want, redeem all your points down to something paltry like 40 points easily - depending on how much you spent on the original points that's something like half a dollar (according to a quick Google around). Even if they managed to scam every last person on Live (around 20 million according to the news reports before Christmas), that's only $10m, spare change to a corporation like MS. I don't think they'd risk exposing themselves to a lawsuit for scamming users (not to mention scaring customers away from a very lucrative system) for a return that's probably less than their yearly paperclip spend. This is <i>MS</i> - they only scam users for $billions, not $millions, silly!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except where the theory falls down is , once they 've got your cash , they do n't care if you spend the points or not .
It 's not like they 're providing a physical product and get some kind of real world benefit in holding onto your money while delaying the delivery of that product as long as possible.Also , with purchases as low as 80 points , you can , if you really want , redeem all your points down to something paltry like 40 points easily - depending on how much you spent on the original points that 's something like half a dollar ( according to a quick Google around ) .
Even if they managed to scam every last person on Live ( around 20 million according to the news reports before Christmas ) , that 's only $ 10m , spare change to a corporation like MS. I do n't think they 'd risk exposing themselves to a lawsuit for scamming users ( not to mention scaring customers away from a very lucrative system ) for a return that 's probably less than their yearly paperclip spend .
This is MS - they only scam users for $ billions , not $ millions , silly !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except where the theory falls down is, once they've got your cash, they don't care if you spend the points or not.
It's not like they're providing a physical product and get some kind of real world benefit in holding onto your money while delaying the delivery of that product as long as possible.Also, with purchases as low as 80 points, you can, if you really want, redeem all your points down to something paltry like 40 points easily - depending on how much you spent on the original points that's something like half a dollar (according to a quick Google around).
Even if they managed to scam every last person on Live (around 20 million according to the news reports before Christmas), that's only $10m, spare change to a corporation like MS. I don't think they'd risk exposing themselves to a lawsuit for scamming users (not to mention scaring customers away from a very lucrative system) for a return that's probably less than their yearly paperclip spend.
This is MS - they only scam users for $billions, not $millions, silly!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914728</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30916514</id>
	<title>Buy points 500 at at time, use 400 at a time</title>
	<author>GTarrant</author>
	<datestamp>1264604220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't mind that they sell points instead of using money directly - in fact, because you can buy "Points Cards" at various brick-and-mortar or online retailers (rather than buying points directly through the Xbox) it isn't that uncommon to see cards carrying $20 worth of points on sale for $15 or less.  This couldn't really happen if the system was simply a dollar-for-dollar transaction.<br><br>The thing that bugs me is that most of the content on the Xbox Live Marketplace - at least in the way of games - costs something that is a multiple of $5.  A Live Arcade game might be $5 or $10 (which is 400 or 800 points, respectively, unless the points are bought at a discount), while an Xbox or Xbox360 game for download might be 1600 ($20) or more.  In essence, 400 points = $5.<br><br>However, when you buy points, you buy them in multiples...of 500.  If you only want a single 400-point game, you have to buy 500 points, and have 100 points left over (and 100 points may as well be 0, unless you're buying an item for your avatar, or perhaps some video downloads, or you're gonna buy more points).<br><br>Please, MS, sell the points in multiples of $5.  I know that selling them 500 at a time means people have leftovers and that's money in your bank, though, so it's not going to happen.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't mind that they sell points instead of using money directly - in fact , because you can buy " Points Cards " at various brick-and-mortar or online retailers ( rather than buying points directly through the Xbox ) it is n't that uncommon to see cards carrying $ 20 worth of points on sale for $ 15 or less .
This could n't really happen if the system was simply a dollar-for-dollar transaction.The thing that bugs me is that most of the content on the Xbox Live Marketplace - at least in the way of games - costs something that is a multiple of $ 5 .
A Live Arcade game might be $ 5 or $ 10 ( which is 400 or 800 points , respectively , unless the points are bought at a discount ) , while an Xbox or Xbox360 game for download might be 1600 ( $ 20 ) or more .
In essence , 400 points = $ 5.However , when you buy points , you buy them in multiples...of 500 .
If you only want a single 400-point game , you have to buy 500 points , and have 100 points left over ( and 100 points may as well be 0 , unless you 're buying an item for your avatar , or perhaps some video downloads , or you 're gon na buy more points ) .Please , MS , sell the points in multiples of $ 5 .
I know that selling them 500 at a time means people have leftovers and that 's money in your bank , though , so it 's not going to happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't mind that they sell points instead of using money directly - in fact, because you can buy "Points Cards" at various brick-and-mortar or online retailers (rather than buying points directly through the Xbox) it isn't that uncommon to see cards carrying $20 worth of points on sale for $15 or less.
This couldn't really happen if the system was simply a dollar-for-dollar transaction.The thing that bugs me is that most of the content on the Xbox Live Marketplace - at least in the way of games - costs something that is a multiple of $5.
A Live Arcade game might be $5 or $10 (which is 400 or 800 points, respectively, unless the points are bought at a discount), while an Xbox or Xbox360 game for download might be 1600 ($20) or more.
In essence, 400 points = $5.However, when you buy points, you buy them in multiples...of 500.
If you only want a single 400-point game, you have to buy 500 points, and have 100 points left over (and 100 points may as well be 0, unless you're buying an item for your avatar, or perhaps some video downloads, or you're gonna buy more points).Please, MS, sell the points in multiples of $5.
I know that selling them 500 at a time means people have leftovers and that's money in your bank, though, so it's not going to happen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914728</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30918670</id>
	<title>Assuming it even goes to trial</title>
	<author>dave562</author>
	<datestamp>1264612800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If this goes to trial and I were a lawyer for Microsoft, I would just produce a list of the number of users who were able to successfully download the product in question within a 48 hour window.  There is a really good chance that number is &gt;1.  If what the article says is true and the plaintiff is whining about the entire download system as a whole, I'd just produce a list of the number of successful downloads in that same 48 hour period that frames the time the plaintiff is charging he had a problem in.</p><p>It seems like this guy is destined for failure.</p><p>I always thought the issue with Microsoft's Live service was the whole "point" scheme in the first place.  I've read complaints about the system being setup in a way so that people are often left with a few extra points laying around.  For example a game might cost 8 points.  Microsoft will only sell points in increments of 5 or 10.  FWIW - I'm not an Xbox360 owner.  I bought a PS3, the system where every game is really $1 more expensive than the listed price because Sony tacks on an extra $1 to the price.  It seems like no console is perfect these days.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If this goes to trial and I were a lawyer for Microsoft , I would just produce a list of the number of users who were able to successfully download the product in question within a 48 hour window .
There is a really good chance that number is &gt; 1 .
If what the article says is true and the plaintiff is whining about the entire download system as a whole , I 'd just produce a list of the number of successful downloads in that same 48 hour period that frames the time the plaintiff is charging he had a problem in.It seems like this guy is destined for failure.I always thought the issue with Microsoft 's Live service was the whole " point " scheme in the first place .
I 've read complaints about the system being setup in a way so that people are often left with a few extra points laying around .
For example a game might cost 8 points .
Microsoft will only sell points in increments of 5 or 10 .
FWIW - I 'm not an Xbox360 owner .
I bought a PS3 , the system where every game is really $ 1 more expensive than the listed price because Sony tacks on an extra $ 1 to the price .
It seems like no console is perfect these days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this goes to trial and I were a lawyer for Microsoft, I would just produce a list of the number of users who were able to successfully download the product in question within a 48 hour window.
There is a really good chance that number is &gt;1.
If what the article says is true and the plaintiff is whining about the entire download system as a whole, I'd just produce a list of the number of successful downloads in that same 48 hour period that frames the time the plaintiff is charging he had a problem in.It seems like this guy is destined for failure.I always thought the issue with Microsoft's Live service was the whole "point" scheme in the first place.
I've read complaints about the system being setup in a way so that people are often left with a few extra points laying around.
For example a game might cost 8 points.
Microsoft will only sell points in increments of 5 or 10.
FWIW - I'm not an Xbox360 owner.
I bought a PS3, the system where every game is really $1 more expensive than the listed price because Sony tacks on an extra $1 to the price.
It seems like no console is perfect these days.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30915056</id>
	<title>Re:XBox Live points is definitly a game</title>
	<author>calmofthestorm</author>
	<datestamp>1264591860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's a superman scam? Google isn't helpful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's a superman scam ?
Google is n't helpful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's a superman scam?
Google isn't helpful.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914728</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30915424</id>
	<title>Re:Something doesn't sound right</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1264596900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I know I always have an odd number of points on my account because of so many different denominations of DLC prices.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>Wouldn't you be just as likely to have an even number of points? I suppose you could have started out with an odd number of points, and bought only things costing an even number of points, so that your remaining points were always odd.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know I always have an odd number of points on my account because of so many different denominations of DLC prices .
Would n't you be just as likely to have an even number of points ?
I suppose you could have started out with an odd number of points , and bought only things costing an even number of points , so that your remaining points were always odd .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know I always have an odd number of points on my account because of so many different denominations of DLC prices.
Wouldn't you be just as likely to have an even number of points?
I suppose you could have started out with an odd number of points, and bought only things costing an even number of points, so that your remaining points were always odd.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30915214</id>
	<title>Re:XBox Live points is definitly a game</title>
	<author>ch0rlt0n</author>
	<datestamp>1264593840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Aaargh! Why has slashdot removed all the carriage returns from the post?!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Aaargh !
Why has slashdot removed all the carriage returns from the post ?
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Aaargh!
Why has slashdot removed all the carriage returns from the post?
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30915128</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30916268</id>
	<title>Re:XBox Live points is definitly a game</title>
	<author>Logical Zebra</author>
	<datestamp>1264602960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is my biggest problem with XBOX Live and the Wii Store.  It should be handled like the PlayStation Store, where everything has an actual value and I am free to pay the exact purchase price (as long as it is above $5).</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is my biggest problem with XBOX Live and the Wii Store .
It should be handled like the PlayStation Store , where everything has an actual value and I am free to pay the exact purchase price ( as long as it is above $ 5 ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is my biggest problem with XBOX Live and the Wii Store.
It should be handled like the PlayStation Store, where everything has an actual value and I am free to pay the exact purchase price (as long as it is above $5).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914728</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914714</id>
	<title>Re:First Post!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264586520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is not a skill.</p><p>A skill is a first post (with first post in the comment or title) that gets modded to +5.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is not a skill.A skill is a first post ( with first post in the comment or title ) that gets modded to + 5 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is not a skill.A skill is a first post (with first post in the comment or title) that gets modded to +5.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914680</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30916458</id>
	<title>Re:XBox Live points is definitly a game</title>
	<author>berwiki</author>
	<datestamp>1264603920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I wonder how much in total of unredeemed cash they sit on each month.</p></div></blockquote><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... while collecting interest on that money.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder how much in total of unredeemed cash they sit on each month .
.... while collecting interest on that money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder how much in total of unredeemed cash they sit on each month.
.... while collecting interest on that money.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914728</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30919390</id>
	<title>Re:Deja'vu</title>
	<author>n0tWorthy</author>
	<datestamp>1264615560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Kind of like the "free" digital copy of Harry Potter that comes with the latest Blue-Ray? The download sits at 0\% forever on Windows 7 x64 and their site states they only support XP. Now that I have "redeemed" my code I can't use it on an old XP laptop that would at least be a supported OS. Big media are asshats.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kind of like the " free " digital copy of Harry Potter that comes with the latest Blue-Ray ?
The download sits at 0 \ % forever on Windows 7 x64 and their site states they only support XP .
Now that I have " redeemed " my code I ca n't use it on an old XP laptop that would at least be a supported OS .
Big media are asshats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kind of like the "free" digital copy of Harry Potter that comes with the latest Blue-Ray?
The download sits at 0\% forever on Windows 7 x64 and their site states they only support XP.
Now that I have "redeemed" my code I can't use it on an old XP laptop that would at least be a supported OS.
Big media are asshats.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914758</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914728</id>
	<title>XBox Live points is definitly a game</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264586760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Microsoft perpetually holds between $5-10 of my money, and has for a couple years now.  Every time I want to purchase some DLC it's pretty much always the case that my current points pool is short of the price by 100-400 points.  Of course they don't sell 100 points - you have to buy 500 or 1000 (I forget the exact amounts offered).  I'm sure I'm far from the only one in this situation.  It's almost like a superman scam.  I wonder how much in total of unredeemed cash they sit on each month.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft perpetually holds between $ 5-10 of my money , and has for a couple years now .
Every time I want to purchase some DLC it 's pretty much always the case that my current points pool is short of the price by 100-400 points .
Of course they do n't sell 100 points - you have to buy 500 or 1000 ( I forget the exact amounts offered ) .
I 'm sure I 'm far from the only one in this situation .
It 's almost like a superman scam .
I wonder how much in total of unredeemed cash they sit on each month .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft perpetually holds between $5-10 of my money, and has for a couple years now.
Every time I want to purchase some DLC it's pretty much always the case that my current points pool is short of the price by 100-400 points.
Of course they don't sell 100 points - you have to buy 500 or 1000 (I forget the exact amounts offered).
I'm sure I'm far from the only one in this situation.
It's almost like a superman scam.
I wonder how much in total of unredeemed cash they sit on each month.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30920762</id>
	<title>Re:Something doesn't sound right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264620600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Selling gamer points is kind of like owning a mint, and MS benefits from the digital <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seignorage" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seignorage</a> [wikipedia.org] . It's very similar to the effects of gift cards; you've paid X up front, and MS has issued a LOT of points, so they've got these huge bank accounts full of money making them interest, which would otherwise have been in their users' bank accounts making the users interest. (A third parallel would be paypal, which is earning interest on every positive balance paypal account). The quantity and in/out flow rate also means that MS is earning better rates overall than the users would from their savings accounts. (They can put large chunks of it into longer term investments, just like a bank would, and keep some portion more liquid for paying game companies. And the game company payments are likely on a schedule, not instant, so MS can probably still get decent interest on that portion too).</p><p>Like with gift cards, portions of the balance go unspent for a long time, possibly forever. If your 360 breaks and you don't replace it, you don't get the money back. If MS shuts down the entire thing, you don't get the money back (though there would be lawsuits...).</p><p>MS goes a step further by obfuscating both ends of the transaction; you buy points in oddly priced blocks and spend points in oddly priced blocks. This is so that you never have close to "exact change" and therefore always have an unspent balance. If you don't spend it right away, that benefits MS. If you do try to spend it right away, you probably have to buy another block of points, which benefits MS. With a gift card, you may spend a little more than the card's value to use up the whole card, but at least you CAN do that, because you can cover the difference with an exact amount of cash. With game points, well, consider an example case where points are sold in $7 blocks but spent in $6 blocks; you'll have another $1 left over every time until you've bought 6 blocks. If you don't buy many things, that'll take a long time, over which time MS will be making interest on unspent points (which will average $2-$3 worth over that timespan). If a few million gamers are doing it that way...</p><p>If there's any price inflation over time, MS again benefits from your unspent balance; they got one point block worth of real money from you plus maybe some interest plus whatever profit is built in to the purchases, but you only get some slightly smaller fraction worth of game out of it. Inflation might be hard to notice, since it'd be in the form of new game content being only slightly more expensive than old; it also might come in sudden jumps, like a hot new Must Have game coming out and it's more expensive and maybe that seems justified, but then later everyone else raises their prices too...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Selling gamer points is kind of like owning a mint , and MS benefits from the digital http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seignorage [ wikipedia.org ] .
It 's very similar to the effects of gift cards ; you 've paid X up front , and MS has issued a LOT of points , so they 've got these huge bank accounts full of money making them interest , which would otherwise have been in their users ' bank accounts making the users interest .
( A third parallel would be paypal , which is earning interest on every positive balance paypal account ) .
The quantity and in/out flow rate also means that MS is earning better rates overall than the users would from their savings accounts .
( They can put large chunks of it into longer term investments , just like a bank would , and keep some portion more liquid for paying game companies .
And the game company payments are likely on a schedule , not instant , so MS can probably still get decent interest on that portion too ) .Like with gift cards , portions of the balance go unspent for a long time , possibly forever .
If your 360 breaks and you do n't replace it , you do n't get the money back .
If MS shuts down the entire thing , you do n't get the money back ( though there would be lawsuits... ) .MS goes a step further by obfuscating both ends of the transaction ; you buy points in oddly priced blocks and spend points in oddly priced blocks .
This is so that you never have close to " exact change " and therefore always have an unspent balance .
If you do n't spend it right away , that benefits MS. If you do try to spend it right away , you probably have to buy another block of points , which benefits MS. With a gift card , you may spend a little more than the card 's value to use up the whole card , but at least you CAN do that , because you can cover the difference with an exact amount of cash .
With game points , well , consider an example case where points are sold in $ 7 blocks but spent in $ 6 blocks ; you 'll have another $ 1 left over every time until you 've bought 6 blocks .
If you do n't buy many things , that 'll take a long time , over which time MS will be making interest on unspent points ( which will average $ 2- $ 3 worth over that timespan ) .
If a few million gamers are doing it that way...If there 's any price inflation over time , MS again benefits from your unspent balance ; they got one point block worth of real money from you plus maybe some interest plus whatever profit is built in to the purchases , but you only get some slightly smaller fraction worth of game out of it .
Inflation might be hard to notice , since it 'd be in the form of new game content being only slightly more expensive than old ; it also might come in sudden jumps , like a hot new Must Have game coming out and it 's more expensive and maybe that seems justified , but then later everyone else raises their prices too.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Selling gamer points is kind of like owning a mint, and MS benefits from the digital http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seignorage [wikipedia.org] .
It's very similar to the effects of gift cards; you've paid X up front, and MS has issued a LOT of points, so they've got these huge bank accounts full of money making them interest, which would otherwise have been in their users' bank accounts making the users interest.
(A third parallel would be paypal, which is earning interest on every positive balance paypal account).
The quantity and in/out flow rate also means that MS is earning better rates overall than the users would from their savings accounts.
(They can put large chunks of it into longer term investments, just like a bank would, and keep some portion more liquid for paying game companies.
And the game company payments are likely on a schedule, not instant, so MS can probably still get decent interest on that portion too).Like with gift cards, portions of the balance go unspent for a long time, possibly forever.
If your 360 breaks and you don't replace it, you don't get the money back.
If MS shuts down the entire thing, you don't get the money back (though there would be lawsuits...).MS goes a step further by obfuscating both ends of the transaction; you buy points in oddly priced blocks and spend points in oddly priced blocks.
This is so that you never have close to "exact change" and therefore always have an unspent balance.
If you don't spend it right away, that benefits MS. If you do try to spend it right away, you probably have to buy another block of points, which benefits MS. With a gift card, you may spend a little more than the card's value to use up the whole card, but at least you CAN do that, because you can cover the difference with an exact amount of cash.
With game points, well, consider an example case where points are sold in $7 blocks but spent in $6 blocks; you'll have another $1 left over every time until you've bought 6 blocks.
If you don't buy many things, that'll take a long time, over which time MS will be making interest on unspent points (which will average $2-$3 worth over that timespan).
If a few million gamers are doing it that way...If there's any price inflation over time, MS again benefits from your unspent balance; they got one point block worth of real money from you plus maybe some interest plus whatever profit is built in to the purchases, but you only get some slightly smaller fraction worth of game out of it.
Inflation might be hard to notice, since it'd be in the form of new game content being only slightly more expensive than old; it also might come in sudden jumps, like a hot new Must Have game coming out and it's more expensive and maybe that seems justified, but then later everyone else raises their prices too...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914894</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30915068</id>
	<title>Re:XBox Live points is definitly a game</title>
	<author>BikeHelmet</author>
	<datestamp>1264591920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder how much you saved in transaction fees by maintaining a credit balance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder how much you saved in transaction fees by maintaining a credit balance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder how much you saved in transaction fees by maintaining a credit balance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914728</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914686</id>
	<title>Logic can be applied in more cases</title>
	<author>nicc777</author>
	<datestamp>1264586040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How about the so called "enterprise" software you buy for an arm and a leg. When there are serious bugs, can you not also apply the same logic, specifically "<i>collecting revenues for digital goods and services which were not provided</i>" - assuming your expectation was "working" and "secure" software as promised... Mmmm...</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about the so called " enterprise " software you buy for an arm and a leg .
When there are serious bugs , can you not also apply the same logic , specifically " collecting revenues for digital goods and services which were not provided " - assuming your expectation was " working " and " secure " software as promised... Mmmm.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about the so called "enterprise" software you buy for an arm and a leg.
When there are serious bugs, can you not also apply the same logic, specifically "collecting revenues for digital goods and services which were not provided" - assuming your expectation was "working" and "secure" software as promised... Mmmm...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914820</id>
	<title>Re:Never attribute to malice</title>
	<author>delinear</author>
	<datestamp>1264588020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except it sounds like this is neither malice, stupidity or a mistake. It's hard to determine what the actual complaint is, but from the Facebook page (I won't dignify it with a link since that's the guy's whole intention, but it's called "Microsoft Point Fraud Class Action Lawsuit"):</p><p><div class="quote"><p>"Defendant Microsoft Corporation received and retained money paid by Plaintiffs in response to incomplete and or partial downloads of digital goods and services and refused refund of same."</p></div><p>That implies a massive misunderstanding of the system. Points aren't a bank that you can pay into and extract money from at will, they're more like a gift card you can redeem at some future date, and neither does MS make any guarantees about the date of redemption, instead they allow you to re-download your content at any time. That means if your initial download fails to complete, or you can't download because the download system is "balky", you just try again later (and honestly, the only time I've ever had problems with downloads on Live is during dash updates, when it can be a bit flaky for the first few hours as everyone's getting the same download at the same time - more likely if he's having continual problems downloading it's his connection rather than the download system that is "balky"). Either way, once you've spent your points it's up to you to download your content.</p><p>As someone else already said, once MS has your money they have no real interest in not delivering the downloads, all that will do is risk deterring customers from making future purchases (compared to the frankly tiny cost of providing the download). I'm all for giving big companies short shrift when they step out of line, and god knows MS have made some major misteps in the past, but this just looks like a case of a slimy lawyer either trying to hit it big by suing $RANDOM\_BIG\_TECH\_COMPANY, or at the very least trying to get his face and name all over the internet.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Except it sounds like this is neither malice , stupidity or a mistake .
It 's hard to determine what the actual complaint is , but from the Facebook page ( I wo n't dignify it with a link since that 's the guy 's whole intention , but it 's called " Microsoft Point Fraud Class Action Lawsuit " ) : " Defendant Microsoft Corporation received and retained money paid by Plaintiffs in response to incomplete and or partial downloads of digital goods and services and refused refund of same .
" That implies a massive misunderstanding of the system .
Points are n't a bank that you can pay into and extract money from at will , they 're more like a gift card you can redeem at some future date , and neither does MS make any guarantees about the date of redemption , instead they allow you to re-download your content at any time .
That means if your initial download fails to complete , or you ca n't download because the download system is " balky " , you just try again later ( and honestly , the only time I 've ever had problems with downloads on Live is during dash updates , when it can be a bit flaky for the first few hours as everyone 's getting the same download at the same time - more likely if he 's having continual problems downloading it 's his connection rather than the download system that is " balky " ) .
Either way , once you 've spent your points it 's up to you to download your content.As someone else already said , once MS has your money they have no real interest in not delivering the downloads , all that will do is risk deterring customers from making future purchases ( compared to the frankly tiny cost of providing the download ) .
I 'm all for giving big companies short shrift when they step out of line , and god knows MS have made some major misteps in the past , but this just looks like a case of a slimy lawyer either trying to hit it big by suing $ RANDOM \ _BIG \ _TECH \ _COMPANY , or at the very least trying to get his face and name all over the internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except it sounds like this is neither malice, stupidity or a mistake.
It's hard to determine what the actual complaint is, but from the Facebook page (I won't dignify it with a link since that's the guy's whole intention, but it's called "Microsoft Point Fraud Class Action Lawsuit"):"Defendant Microsoft Corporation received and retained money paid by Plaintiffs in response to incomplete and or partial downloads of digital goods and services and refused refund of same.
"That implies a massive misunderstanding of the system.
Points aren't a bank that you can pay into and extract money from at will, they're more like a gift card you can redeem at some future date, and neither does MS make any guarantees about the date of redemption, instead they allow you to re-download your content at any time.
That means if your initial download fails to complete, or you can't download because the download system is "balky", you just try again later (and honestly, the only time I've ever had problems with downloads on Live is during dash updates, when it can be a bit flaky for the first few hours as everyone's getting the same download at the same time - more likely if he's having continual problems downloading it's his connection rather than the download system that is "balky").
Either way, once you've spent your points it's up to you to download your content.As someone else already said, once MS has your money they have no real interest in not delivering the downloads, all that will do is risk deterring customers from making future purchases (compared to the frankly tiny cost of providing the download).
I'm all for giving big companies short shrift when they step out of line, and god knows MS have made some major misteps in the past, but this just looks like a case of a slimy lawyer either trying to hit it big by suing $RANDOM\_BIG\_TECH\_COMPANY, or at the very least trying to get his face and name all over the internet.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914834</id>
	<title>Vexatious litigtion?</title>
	<author>mcbridematt</author>
	<datestamp>1264588260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did this guy even bother writing to MS?</p><p><i>RTFA's</i></p><p>Oh, this guy must be a lawyer. Or someone representing himself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did this guy even bother writing to MS ? RTFA'sOh , this guy must be a lawyer .
Or someone representing himself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did this guy even bother writing to MS?RTFA'sOh, this guy must be a lawyer.
Or someone representing himself.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30915648</id>
	<title>Well, I dislike Microsoft.</title>
	<author>feepness</author>
	<datestamp>1264598580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But this is a tempest in a teapot.  Broken downloads mean nothing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But this is a tempest in a teapot .
Broken downloads mean nothing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But this is a tempest in a teapot.
Broken downloads mean nothing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914814</id>
	<title>How many people till it qualifies as class action?</title>
	<author>initialE</author>
	<datestamp>1264587900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seems to be a rare case when someone can't download from Live - Microsoft collects money and provides a premium service with reliable uptime in this case. How on earth did he decide it's Microsoft's fault his internet is shitty?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seems to be a rare case when someone ca n't download from Live - Microsoft collects money and provides a premium service with reliable uptime in this case .
How on earth did he decide it 's Microsoft 's fault his internet is shitty ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seems to be a rare case when someone can't download from Live - Microsoft collects money and provides a premium service with reliable uptime in this case.
How on earth did he decide it's Microsoft's fault his internet is shitty?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914680</id>
	<title>First Post!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264585920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...hopefully<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D<br>sorry guys, i had to try at least once.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...hopefully : Dsorry guys , i had to try at least once .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...hopefully :Dsorry guys, i had to try at least once.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30923510</id>
	<title>Re:Something doesn't sound right</title>
	<author>thetoadwarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1264583760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think the guy, in my opinion, is an ambulance chaser but I also dislike the points system that both Microsoft and Nintendo employ. I want to just pay the *exact* price for my software.
<br> <br>
By using points, you end up with left over points, millions of people do this and all those pennies add up to free interest money for MS with no benefit to the consumer as the 360 is by far the most expensive system to get full use out of it.
<br> <br>
By using points they can make it appear as if every country pays the same where as in reality each country pays a different price per point. They can raise prices in numerous markets without it being reflected easily to most consumers.
<br> <br>
Points, to most people, have no value. Most people would be more upset to see $50 sitting in their account for which they can't use for anything but MS software. But in points format it means less so it's a bit more acceptable.
<br> <br>
If I sell my system how do I get my spare points back? Why should I have to ask when I don't need to beg Amazon.com or Play.com to give me my money back if I close my account.
<br> <br>
The article on Edge ( <a href="http://www.edge-online.com/news/microsoft-points-never-intended-to-mislead-people\%E2\%80\%9D" title="edge-online.com">http://www.edge-online.com/news/microsoft-points-never-intended-to-mislead-people\%E2\%80\%9D</a> [edge-online.com] ) has Aaron Greenberg saying 200 points is 200 points. That's not entirely true. In the US it may be $5.00 and it may be $10.00 to someone else.
<br> <br>
He then states:<p><div class="quote"><p>"There's more technical complexities to being able to put local prices in," he added. "You have to do that for every product in every country and you then have to deal with currency fluctuations.</p></div><p>That is a load of crap because they still have to manage costs for all countries and factor in tax for those countries that charge them. Somewhere there has to be a database of costs per points at MS. How can it be hard to pull through that currency amount to the front-end rather than a numerical value which, when someone buys those points, a system has to calculate their cost anyway.
<br> <br>
Sony can manage this while giving away their online services for free. I can't believe people are dumb enough to buy into the points scam.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the guy , in my opinion , is an ambulance chaser but I also dislike the points system that both Microsoft and Nintendo employ .
I want to just pay the * exact * price for my software .
By using points , you end up with left over points , millions of people do this and all those pennies add up to free interest money for MS with no benefit to the consumer as the 360 is by far the most expensive system to get full use out of it .
By using points they can make it appear as if every country pays the same where as in reality each country pays a different price per point .
They can raise prices in numerous markets without it being reflected easily to most consumers .
Points , to most people , have no value .
Most people would be more upset to see $ 50 sitting in their account for which they ca n't use for anything but MS software .
But in points format it means less so it 's a bit more acceptable .
If I sell my system how do I get my spare points back ?
Why should I have to ask when I do n't need to beg Amazon.com or Play.com to give me my money back if I close my account .
The article on Edge ( http : //www.edge-online.com/news/microsoft-points-never-intended-to-mislead-people \ % E2 \ % 80 \ % 9D [ edge-online.com ] ) has Aaron Greenberg saying 200 points is 200 points .
That 's not entirely true .
In the US it may be $ 5.00 and it may be $ 10.00 to someone else .
He then states : " There 's more technical complexities to being able to put local prices in , " he added .
" You have to do that for every product in every country and you then have to deal with currency fluctuations.That is a load of crap because they still have to manage costs for all countries and factor in tax for those countries that charge them .
Somewhere there has to be a database of costs per points at MS. How can it be hard to pull through that currency amount to the front-end rather than a numerical value which , when someone buys those points , a system has to calculate their cost anyway .
Sony can manage this while giving away their online services for free .
I ca n't believe people are dumb enough to buy into the points scam .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the guy, in my opinion, is an ambulance chaser but I also dislike the points system that both Microsoft and Nintendo employ.
I want to just pay the *exact* price for my software.
By using points, you end up with left over points, millions of people do this and all those pennies add up to free interest money for MS with no benefit to the consumer as the 360 is by far the most expensive system to get full use out of it.
By using points they can make it appear as if every country pays the same where as in reality each country pays a different price per point.
They can raise prices in numerous markets without it being reflected easily to most consumers.
Points, to most people, have no value.
Most people would be more upset to see $50 sitting in their account for which they can't use for anything but MS software.
But in points format it means less so it's a bit more acceptable.
If I sell my system how do I get my spare points back?
Why should I have to ask when I don't need to beg Amazon.com or Play.com to give me my money back if I close my account.
The article on Edge ( http://www.edge-online.com/news/microsoft-points-never-intended-to-mislead-people\%E2\%80\%9D [edge-online.com] ) has Aaron Greenberg saying 200 points is 200 points.
That's not entirely true.
In the US it may be $5.00 and it may be $10.00 to someone else.
He then states:"There's more technical complexities to being able to put local prices in," he added.
"You have to do that for every product in every country and you then have to deal with currency fluctuations.That is a load of crap because they still have to manage costs for all countries and factor in tax for those countries that charge them.
Somewhere there has to be a database of costs per points at MS. How can it be hard to pull through that currency amount to the front-end rather than a numerical value which, when someone buys those points, a system has to calculate their cost anyway.
Sony can manage this while giving away their online services for free.
I can't believe people are dumb enough to buy into the points scam.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914684</id>
	<title>Deja'vu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264585920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Microsoft doing something illegal, and then getting sued for it???</p><p>What is this world coming to.</p><p>I view Microsoft just like the protagonist in 'Fight Club' views the "major car manufacturer".<br>If cost of litigation is less than profit then Do It.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft doing something illegal , and then getting sued for it ? ?
? What is this world coming to.I view Microsoft just like the protagonist in 'Fight Club ' views the " major car manufacturer " .If cost of litigation is less than profit then Do It .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft doing something illegal, and then getting sued for it??
?What is this world coming to.I view Microsoft just like the protagonist in 'Fight Club' views the "major car manufacturer".If cost of litigation is less than profit then Do It.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30916698</id>
	<title>Sue the Hotdog and Hotdog Bun Industry</title>
	<author>jgtg32a</author>
	<datestamp>1264605060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hotdogs come in packs of 8 and Hotdog Bun come in pack of 6, its a scam.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hotdogs come in packs of 8 and Hotdog Bun come in pack of 6 , its a scam .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hotdogs come in packs of 8 and Hotdog Bun come in pack of 6, its a scam.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30926188</id>
	<title>glad to see it</title>
	<author>EdelFactor19</author>
	<datestamp>1264591620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it's utterly attrocious that they get to make a fake currency, force people to buy it in absurd bundled quantities basically force you to waste money.  The only legal tender in this country is USD last time I checked.  Forcing me to buy your funny money seems pretty much by definition an anticompetitive and fraudulent practice done solely on the premise of making a profit on unused points and forcing us to buy something we wouldn't with our "leftover" otherwise unusable cash, or to give them a few more dollars so as to have enough to make a similar non desired purcahse..</p><p>all of which are tactics of a horrible business model. If you seriously depend upon these profits that are created by forcing your clients to either waste money or buy something they don't want then you have a horrible business and should reconsider your product.  Frankly I would consider you uninvestable, you aren't creating profit from value.</p><p>At least on the wii, 100 points is 1 dollar and you can buy them at the 100 point interval..  MS seeks to confuse people by selling at bizzarre rates that don't align with anything they sell.  most (not all) items are sold for multiples of 400; while points are acquired in multiples of 500.  and of course there is no reverse transaction and they can terminate the system whenever they want.</p><p>The lawsuit from the article doesnt appear to be about the failed downloads per see... but the whole 'hassle' of having content transferred seems to be a bit of BS as well.  Tie the content to the user ID and dont let user ID's be signed in from more than one place at a time.. not that complicated. If you can't handle this then you shouldn't be in the business of selling DLC.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's utterly attrocious that they get to make a fake currency , force people to buy it in absurd bundled quantities basically force you to waste money .
The only legal tender in this country is USD last time I checked .
Forcing me to buy your funny money seems pretty much by definition an anticompetitive and fraudulent practice done solely on the premise of making a profit on unused points and forcing us to buy something we would n't with our " leftover " otherwise unusable cash , or to give them a few more dollars so as to have enough to make a similar non desired purcahse..all of which are tactics of a horrible business model .
If you seriously depend upon these profits that are created by forcing your clients to either waste money or buy something they do n't want then you have a horrible business and should reconsider your product .
Frankly I would consider you uninvestable , you are n't creating profit from value.At least on the wii , 100 points is 1 dollar and you can buy them at the 100 point interval.. MS seeks to confuse people by selling at bizzarre rates that do n't align with anything they sell .
most ( not all ) items are sold for multiples of 400 ; while points are acquired in multiples of 500. and of course there is no reverse transaction and they can terminate the system whenever they want.The lawsuit from the article doesnt appear to be about the failed downloads per see... but the whole 'hassle ' of having content transferred seems to be a bit of BS as well .
Tie the content to the user ID and dont let user ID 's be signed in from more than one place at a time.. not that complicated .
If you ca n't handle this then you should n't be in the business of selling DLC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's utterly attrocious that they get to make a fake currency, force people to buy it in absurd bundled quantities basically force you to waste money.
The only legal tender in this country is USD last time I checked.
Forcing me to buy your funny money seems pretty much by definition an anticompetitive and fraudulent practice done solely on the premise of making a profit on unused points and forcing us to buy something we wouldn't with our "leftover" otherwise unusable cash, or to give them a few more dollars so as to have enough to make a similar non desired purcahse..all of which are tactics of a horrible business model.
If you seriously depend upon these profits that are created by forcing your clients to either waste money or buy something they don't want then you have a horrible business and should reconsider your product.
Frankly I would consider you uninvestable, you aren't creating profit from value.At least on the wii, 100 points is 1 dollar and you can buy them at the 100 point interval..  MS seeks to confuse people by selling at bizzarre rates that don't align with anything they sell.
most (not all) items are sold for multiples of 400; while points are acquired in multiples of 500.  and of course there is no reverse transaction and they can terminate the system whenever they want.The lawsuit from the article doesnt appear to be about the failed downloads per see... but the whole 'hassle' of having content transferred seems to be a bit of BS as well.
Tie the content to the user ID and dont let user ID's be signed in from more than one place at a time.. not that complicated.
If you can't handle this then you shouldn't be in the business of selling DLC.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30915350</id>
	<title>Re:XBox Live points is definitly a game</title>
	<author>hairyfeet</author>
	<datestamp>1264595760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <a href="http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/05/man-allegedly-b/" title="wired.com">Here you go</a> [wired.com] courtesy of your old pal da feet. Basically from the looks of it it is pulling a Richard Pryor in Superman 3 and skimming a little amount from a whole assload of folks, thus making you rich.</p><p>

Problem is we are talking MSFT here, and this kind of scam probably wouldn't pay their bar tab. It also makes no sense as they don't care if you spend the points now, next week, or next year, as the bandwidth they are using to provide you the content isn't squat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here you go [ wired.com ] courtesy of your old pal da feet .
Basically from the looks of it it is pulling a Richard Pryor in Superman 3 and skimming a little amount from a whole assload of folks , thus making you rich .
Problem is we are talking MSFT here , and this kind of scam probably would n't pay their bar tab .
It also makes no sense as they do n't care if you spend the points now , next week , or next year , as the bandwidth they are using to provide you the content is n't squat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Here you go [wired.com] courtesy of your old pal da feet.
Basically from the looks of it it is pulling a Richard Pryor in Superman 3 and skimming a little amount from a whole assload of folks, thus making you rich.
Problem is we are talking MSFT here, and this kind of scam probably wouldn't pay their bar tab.
It also makes no sense as they don't care if you spend the points now, next week, or next year, as the bandwidth they are using to provide you the content isn't squat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30915056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.31003956</id>
	<title>Re:Buy points 500 at at time, use 400 at a time</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1265120880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Microsoft selling points in increments of 500 is the reason why I buy 4100 points cards.</p><p>Yep.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft selling points in increments of 500 is the reason why I buy 4100 points cards.Yep .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft selling points in increments of 500 is the reason why I buy 4100 points cards.Yep.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30916514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914832</id>
	<title>Re:Something doesn't sound right</title>
	<author>delinear</author>
	<datestamp>1264588260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'll be all for the switch from points to money (for transparency reasons, although I might have a shock when I see what <i>real</i> money I'm spending!) so long as it doesn't continue to store credit card details on the system and instead perhaps allows you to "charge up" an account with money or make one-off transactions without retaining card details. It was a major PITA getting a previous card removed from my system (it wasn't my card, I borrowed it to make a payment for live and they retained the details which made me feel a bit uneasy - I believe you can now remove these via the website, which is still an additional hoop to jump through, but at the time even that wasn't possible).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll be all for the switch from points to money ( for transparency reasons , although I might have a shock when I see what real money I 'm spending !
) so long as it does n't continue to store credit card details on the system and instead perhaps allows you to " charge up " an account with money or make one-off transactions without retaining card details .
It was a major PITA getting a previous card removed from my system ( it was n't my card , I borrowed it to make a payment for live and they retained the details which made me feel a bit uneasy - I believe you can now remove these via the website , which is still an additional hoop to jump through , but at the time even that was n't possible ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll be all for the switch from points to money (for transparency reasons, although I might have a shock when I see what real money I'm spending!
) so long as it doesn't continue to store credit card details on the system and instead perhaps allows you to "charge up" an account with money or make one-off transactions without retaining card details.
It was a major PITA getting a previous card removed from my system (it wasn't my card, I borrowed it to make a payment for live and they retained the details which made me feel a bit uneasy - I believe you can now remove these via the website, which is still an additional hoop to jump through, but at the time even that wasn't possible).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914758</id>
	<title>Re:Deja'vu</title>
	<author>pla</author>
	<datestamp>1264587180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Microsoft doing something illegal, and then getting sued for it???</i> <br>
<br>
Sure, lets all get our kicks in while we can, but realize that this involves a much deeper issue than
our hate for Microsoft.<br>
<br>
How many times have you gotten some form of promo code for something free, only to have a hideous web site
design (or even legitimate network problems) cause you to "redeem" that code without actually getting
anything - And then of course the site refuses the code as "already used" when you try again?  Personally,
I'd put it at <i>over</i> half the time for me.<br>
<br>
And this doesn't only include <i>free</i> material, either, though (so far) companies take a bit more
care when you actually <i>pay</i> for the service/product in question...  Case in point, just this week
I tried to use a 60 minute card on a contractless cellphone (more for the time extension than the actual minutes),
only to have it rejected for some ill-defined reason.  Fortunately they have actual humans you can deal
with, but clearly the motivation to just make it work right simply doesn't exist; they already have your
money at that point.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft doing something illegal , and then getting sued for it ? ? ?
Sure , lets all get our kicks in while we can , but realize that this involves a much deeper issue than our hate for Microsoft .
How many times have you gotten some form of promo code for something free , only to have a hideous web site design ( or even legitimate network problems ) cause you to " redeem " that code without actually getting anything - And then of course the site refuses the code as " already used " when you try again ?
Personally , I 'd put it at over half the time for me .
And this does n't only include free material , either , though ( so far ) companies take a bit more care when you actually pay for the service/product in question... Case in point , just this week I tried to use a 60 minute card on a contractless cellphone ( more for the time extension than the actual minutes ) , only to have it rejected for some ill-defined reason .
Fortunately they have actual humans you can deal with , but clearly the motivation to just make it work right simply does n't exist ; they already have your money at that point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft doing something illegal, and then getting sued for it???
Sure, lets all get our kicks in while we can, but realize that this involves a much deeper issue than
our hate for Microsoft.
How many times have you gotten some form of promo code for something free, only to have a hideous web site
design (or even legitimate network problems) cause you to "redeem" that code without actually getting
anything - And then of course the site refuses the code as "already used" when you try again?
Personally,
I'd put it at over half the time for me.
And this doesn't only include free material, either, though (so far) companies take a bit more
care when you actually pay for the service/product in question...  Case in point, just this week
I tried to use a 60 minute card on a contractless cellphone (more for the time extension than the actual minutes),
only to have it rejected for some ill-defined reason.
Fortunately they have actual humans you can deal
with, but clearly the motivation to just make it work right simply doesn't exist; they already have your
money at that point.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30918652</id>
	<title>Re:Something doesn't sound right</title>
	<author>tlhIngan</author>
	<datestamp>1264612740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Personally I don't mind the points system at all, it means I'm able to use prepaid cards instead of handing them my credit card information. Never mind the fact that I don't actually have a credit card (they aren't as common outside of the US).</p><p>Leftover points don't really bother me. Eventually something cool will come along to spend them on. Of course, Microsoft prefers it if you spend your last 100 points on silly picture packs and then buy a completely new set of points when the next Dragon Age expansion comes along, but I'll just leave the 100 points sitting in my account and put them towards the expansion as well.</p><p>As for the original topic, I dislike Microsoft's general business practices as much as the next guy, but they seem pretty okay when it comes to the points thing. A while ago they had an offer where I could buy Braid at a discount, but (presumably due to a bug) I was charged full price. I hadn't actually noticed that I was overcharged though. Still, a few weeks later, I received an email with an apology and the points were refunded, without any action or complaint from my part. I thought that was very decent of them, and honestly I've started buying more arcade games from them since then.</p></div></blockquote><p>Exactly.</p><p>I use points cards (I'm in Canada, and I do have a credit card). Why? Because I never pay full price for a points card! I always buy them when they're 10=25+\% off, which is just "free" money. So I get the items at a bigger discount that way. Hell, I've had friends in the US complain loudly about paying for points, then acquiesce when I say that you can buy them at Amazon where they'll send you a code for the download. They acquiesced because the game was the discount of the week, and Amazon charges full price. The "spare" points left over after buying the game meant he could buy something else later, and he spent less than paying Amazon for just the game.</p><p>Right now I have a somewhat high balance, and am choosing what to really spend it on - it's hard, and I know I have a pile of points cards (as with Xbox live subscription cards - why pay full price?), and I do give them to friends as presents.</p><p>I guess the only way to make people happy is those who would've paid full price get to be billed full price on their credit cards, and those who want points have to buy prepaid cards. Inevitably there's at least a week every month or so where they're on sale at some retailer (online or B&amp;M).</p><p>My best deal yet would've been getting an xbox live membership card on "clearance" because it was for the original Xbox, and EBGames thought they didn't work on the Xbox360.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally I do n't mind the points system at all , it means I 'm able to use prepaid cards instead of handing them my credit card information .
Never mind the fact that I do n't actually have a credit card ( they are n't as common outside of the US ) .Leftover points do n't really bother me .
Eventually something cool will come along to spend them on .
Of course , Microsoft prefers it if you spend your last 100 points on silly picture packs and then buy a completely new set of points when the next Dragon Age expansion comes along , but I 'll just leave the 100 points sitting in my account and put them towards the expansion as well.As for the original topic , I dislike Microsoft 's general business practices as much as the next guy , but they seem pretty okay when it comes to the points thing .
A while ago they had an offer where I could buy Braid at a discount , but ( presumably due to a bug ) I was charged full price .
I had n't actually noticed that I was overcharged though .
Still , a few weeks later , I received an email with an apology and the points were refunded , without any action or complaint from my part .
I thought that was very decent of them , and honestly I 've started buying more arcade games from them since then.Exactly.I use points cards ( I 'm in Canada , and I do have a credit card ) .
Why ? Because I never pay full price for a points card !
I always buy them when they 're 10 = 25 + \ % off , which is just " free " money .
So I get the items at a bigger discount that way .
Hell , I 've had friends in the US complain loudly about paying for points , then acquiesce when I say that you can buy them at Amazon where they 'll send you a code for the download .
They acquiesced because the game was the discount of the week , and Amazon charges full price .
The " spare " points left over after buying the game meant he could buy something else later , and he spent less than paying Amazon for just the game.Right now I have a somewhat high balance , and am choosing what to really spend it on - it 's hard , and I know I have a pile of points cards ( as with Xbox live subscription cards - why pay full price ?
) , and I do give them to friends as presents.I guess the only way to make people happy is those who would 've paid full price get to be billed full price on their credit cards , and those who want points have to buy prepaid cards .
Inevitably there 's at least a week every month or so where they 're on sale at some retailer ( online or B&amp;M ) .My best deal yet would 've been getting an xbox live membership card on " clearance " because it was for the original Xbox , and EBGames thought they did n't work on the Xbox360 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally I don't mind the points system at all, it means I'm able to use prepaid cards instead of handing them my credit card information.
Never mind the fact that I don't actually have a credit card (they aren't as common outside of the US).Leftover points don't really bother me.
Eventually something cool will come along to spend them on.
Of course, Microsoft prefers it if you spend your last 100 points on silly picture packs and then buy a completely new set of points when the next Dragon Age expansion comes along, but I'll just leave the 100 points sitting in my account and put them towards the expansion as well.As for the original topic, I dislike Microsoft's general business practices as much as the next guy, but they seem pretty okay when it comes to the points thing.
A while ago they had an offer where I could buy Braid at a discount, but (presumably due to a bug) I was charged full price.
I hadn't actually noticed that I was overcharged though.
Still, a few weeks later, I received an email with an apology and the points were refunded, without any action or complaint from my part.
I thought that was very decent of them, and honestly I've started buying more arcade games from them since then.Exactly.I use points cards (I'm in Canada, and I do have a credit card).
Why? Because I never pay full price for a points card!
I always buy them when they're 10=25+\% off, which is just "free" money.
So I get the items at a bigger discount that way.
Hell, I've had friends in the US complain loudly about paying for points, then acquiesce when I say that you can buy them at Amazon where they'll send you a code for the download.
They acquiesced because the game was the discount of the week, and Amazon charges full price.
The "spare" points left over after buying the game meant he could buy something else later, and he spent less than paying Amazon for just the game.Right now I have a somewhat high balance, and am choosing what to really spend it on - it's hard, and I know I have a pile of points cards (as with Xbox live subscription cards - why pay full price?
), and I do give them to friends as presents.I guess the only way to make people happy is those who would've paid full price get to be billed full price on their credit cards, and those who want points have to buy prepaid cards.
Inevitably there's at least a week every month or so where they're on sale at some retailer (online or B&amp;M).My best deal yet would've been getting an xbox live membership card on "clearance" because it was for the original Xbox, and EBGames thought they didn't work on the Xbox360.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914894</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914934</id>
	<title>The lesson here is</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264590060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When ripping people off, make sure they're not lawyers. You wouldn't like the result.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When ripping people off , make sure they 're not lawyers .
You would n't like the result .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When ripping people off, make sure they're not lawyers.
You wouldn't like the result.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914894</id>
	<title>Re:Something doesn't sound right</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264589280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Personally I don't mind the points system at all, it means I'm able to use prepaid cards instead of handing them my credit card information. Never mind the fact that I don't actually have a credit card (they aren't as common outside of the US).</p><p>Leftover points don't really bother me. Eventually something cool will come along to spend them on. Of course, Microsoft prefers it if you spend your last 100 points on silly picture packs and then buy a completely new set of points when the next Dragon Age expansion comes along, but I'll just leave the 100 points sitting in my account and put them towards the expansion as well.</p><p>As for the original topic, I dislike Microsoft's general business practices as much as the next guy, but they seem pretty okay when it comes to the points thing. A while ago they had an offer where I could buy Braid at a discount, but (presumably due to a bug) I was charged full price. I hadn't actually noticed that I was overcharged though. Still, a few weeks later, I received an email with an apology and the points were refunded, without any action or complaint from my part. I thought that was very decent of them, and honestly I've started buying more arcade games from them since then.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally I do n't mind the points system at all , it means I 'm able to use prepaid cards instead of handing them my credit card information .
Never mind the fact that I do n't actually have a credit card ( they are n't as common outside of the US ) .Leftover points do n't really bother me .
Eventually something cool will come along to spend them on .
Of course , Microsoft prefers it if you spend your last 100 points on silly picture packs and then buy a completely new set of points when the next Dragon Age expansion comes along , but I 'll just leave the 100 points sitting in my account and put them towards the expansion as well.As for the original topic , I dislike Microsoft 's general business practices as much as the next guy , but they seem pretty okay when it comes to the points thing .
A while ago they had an offer where I could buy Braid at a discount , but ( presumably due to a bug ) I was charged full price .
I had n't actually noticed that I was overcharged though .
Still , a few weeks later , I received an email with an apology and the points were refunded , without any action or complaint from my part .
I thought that was very decent of them , and honestly I 've started buying more arcade games from them since then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally I don't mind the points system at all, it means I'm able to use prepaid cards instead of handing them my credit card information.
Never mind the fact that I don't actually have a credit card (they aren't as common outside of the US).Leftover points don't really bother me.
Eventually something cool will come along to spend them on.
Of course, Microsoft prefers it if you spend your last 100 points on silly picture packs and then buy a completely new set of points when the next Dragon Age expansion comes along, but I'll just leave the 100 points sitting in my account and put them towards the expansion as well.As for the original topic, I dislike Microsoft's general business practices as much as the next guy, but they seem pretty okay when it comes to the points thing.
A while ago they had an offer where I could buy Braid at a discount, but (presumably due to a bug) I was charged full price.
I hadn't actually noticed that I was overcharged though.
Still, a few weeks later, I received an email with an apology and the points were refunded, without any action or complaint from my part.
I thought that was very decent of them, and honestly I've started buying more arcade games from them since then.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914780</id>
	<title>Re:Deja'vu</title>
	<author>starbugs</author>
	<datestamp>1264587420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Next time starbugs RTFA.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>--Note to self: stop talking to yourself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Next time starbugs RTFA .
: ) --Note to self : stop talking to yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Next time starbugs RTFA.
:)--Note to self: stop talking to yourself.</sentencetext>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30917840</id>
	<title>I hate Microsoft points...</title>
	<author>kainewynd2</author>
	<datestamp>1264609860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...but are they illegal?  No.  You are purchasing a digital form of currency--it's like an exchange rate that remains static despite economic flux.</p><p>Get over it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...but are they illegal ?
No. You are purchasing a digital form of currency--it 's like an exchange rate that remains static despite economic flux.Get over it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...but are they illegal?
No.  You are purchasing a digital form of currency--it's like an exchange rate that remains static despite economic flux.Get over it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30915128</id>
	<title>Re:XBox Live points is definitly a game</title>
	<author>ch0rlt0n</author>
	<datestamp>1264592820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow, I think your question's serious, but your<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.sig suggests it might be sarcasm and I'm a fool for taking it seriously... um.

I guess it's a reference to Superman III and Richard Pryor's scheme to skim off the fractions of a penny from everyone's salaries still held in the payroll computer.

Either that or Clark Kent has been trying to sell a famous London bridge to an American. He "has a friend" who can arrange transport.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , I think your question 's serious , but your .sig suggests it might be sarcasm and I 'm a fool for taking it seriously... um . I guess it 's a reference to Superman III and Richard Pryor 's scheme to skim off the fractions of a penny from everyone 's salaries still held in the payroll computer .
Either that or Clark Kent has been trying to sell a famous London bridge to an American .
He " has a friend " who can arrange transport .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, I think your question's serious, but your .sig suggests it might be sarcasm and I'm a fool for taking it seriously... um.

I guess it's a reference to Superman III and Richard Pryor's scheme to skim off the fractions of a penny from everyone's salaries still held in the payroll computer.
Either that or Clark Kent has been trying to sell a famous London bridge to an American.
He "has a friend" who can arrange transport.</sentencetext>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30919222</id>
	<title>Re:Never attribute to malice</title>
	<author>GasparGMSwordsman</author>
	<datestamp>1264614960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you agree to a purchase both the seller and purchaser have certain legal obligations.  In this case, Microsoft, selling the MS points has an obligation to ensure that the system works reasonably well.  I've never had problems, however, if MS failed to ensure that their system worked at a minimum standard then they would reasonably be required to refund the real dollars this guy handed over.  This is a very simple legal principle and common sense.</p><p>The crux of the case depends on what problems this guy faced and what was MS's response.  If he was repeatedly denied adequate service followed by MS refusing to correct the issue or refund him, then he should have a very strong case.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you agree to a purchase both the seller and purchaser have certain legal obligations .
In this case , Microsoft , selling the MS points has an obligation to ensure that the system works reasonably well .
I 've never had problems , however , if MS failed to ensure that their system worked at a minimum standard then they would reasonably be required to refund the real dollars this guy handed over .
This is a very simple legal principle and common sense.The crux of the case depends on what problems this guy faced and what was MS 's response .
If he was repeatedly denied adequate service followed by MS refusing to correct the issue or refund him , then he should have a very strong case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you agree to a purchase both the seller and purchaser have certain legal obligations.
In this case, Microsoft, selling the MS points has an obligation to ensure that the system works reasonably well.
I've never had problems, however, if MS failed to ensure that their system worked at a minimum standard then they would reasonably be required to refund the real dollars this guy handed over.
This is a very simple legal principle and common sense.The crux of the case depends on what problems this guy faced and what was MS's response.
If he was repeatedly denied adequate service followed by MS refusing to correct the issue or refund him, then he should have a very strong case.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914820</parent>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_27_064236.30914892</id>
	<title>Screw Resolving Things "Peacefully"...</title>
	<author>RoFLKOPTr</author>
	<datestamp>1264589280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's just SUE 'EM!</p><p>The article makes no mention of Mr. Lassoff's experience when he contacted the Xbox Live support line, and I would expect that if it were less than expedient, that would be a major part of this lawsuit. I have a feeling that he didn't contact them at all, and instead is going straight to suing them. Now don't get me wrong... I absolutely despise the points system due to the fact that the point packs are not proportional to item costs, and that IS intentionally misleading... but it is not fraudulent or illegal, and the points system itself is not what the lawsuit is about.</p><p>Quoted FTA:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>As for Lassoff, he's no stranger to suing big tech companies and other organizations. Records show he sued Google in 2006, claiming the search ads he placed fell victim to click fraud. He also sued Bally's Casino in Atlantic City in 2005, claiming he was attacked by a drunken patron while sitting at a poker table.</p></div><p>Google is known for their strict policies regarding click fraud, and they are very good at detecting it and very good at not charging the victims and not paying the perpetrators when it happens. This man must be afraid of phones or something, because a simple phone call should have resolved <b>that</b> issue as well. And as for the casino incident..... suing the casino because a patron attacked you? Are you fucking kidding me?</p><p>If this class action suit isn't thrown right the fuck out of court, what little hope I have left for our nation's judicial system will be lost.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's just SUE 'EM ! The article makes no mention of Mr. Lassoff 's experience when he contacted the Xbox Live support line , and I would expect that if it were less than expedient , that would be a major part of this lawsuit .
I have a feeling that he did n't contact them at all , and instead is going straight to suing them .
Now do n't get me wrong... I absolutely despise the points system due to the fact that the point packs are not proportional to item costs , and that IS intentionally misleading... but it is not fraudulent or illegal , and the points system itself is not what the lawsuit is about.Quoted FTA : As for Lassoff , he 's no stranger to suing big tech companies and other organizations .
Records show he sued Google in 2006 , claiming the search ads he placed fell victim to click fraud .
He also sued Bally 's Casino in Atlantic City in 2005 , claiming he was attacked by a drunken patron while sitting at a poker table.Google is known for their strict policies regarding click fraud , and they are very good at detecting it and very good at not charging the victims and not paying the perpetrators when it happens .
This man must be afraid of phones or something , because a simple phone call should have resolved that issue as well .
And as for the casino incident..... suing the casino because a patron attacked you ?
Are you fucking kidding me ? If this class action suit is n't thrown right the fuck out of court , what little hope I have left for our nation 's judicial system will be lost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's just SUE 'EM!The article makes no mention of Mr. Lassoff's experience when he contacted the Xbox Live support line, and I would expect that if it were less than expedient, that would be a major part of this lawsuit.
I have a feeling that he didn't contact them at all, and instead is going straight to suing them.
Now don't get me wrong... I absolutely despise the points system due to the fact that the point packs are not proportional to item costs, and that IS intentionally misleading... but it is not fraudulent or illegal, and the points system itself is not what the lawsuit is about.Quoted FTA:As for Lassoff, he's no stranger to suing big tech companies and other organizations.
Records show he sued Google in 2006, claiming the search ads he placed fell victim to click fraud.
He also sued Bally's Casino in Atlantic City in 2005, claiming he was attacked by a drunken patron while sitting at a poker table.Google is known for their strict policies regarding click fraud, and they are very good at detecting it and very good at not charging the victims and not paying the perpetrators when it happens.
This man must be afraid of phones or something, because a simple phone call should have resolved that issue as well.
And as for the casino incident..... suing the casino because a patron attacked you?
Are you fucking kidding me?If this class action suit isn't thrown right the fuck out of court, what little hope I have left for our nation's judicial system will be lost.
	</sentencetext>
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