<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_26_1916245</id>
	<title>CompTIA Reneges, Reconsiders on Lifetime Certifications</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1264534860000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>garg0yle writes <i>"Recently, it was reported that IT certification house CompTIA had changed their A+, Network+, and Security+ certifications &mdash; rather than being 'for life,' there would now be a recertification requirement through continuing-education credits (and an accompanying fee). Needless to say, this made a lot of people very unhappy, and today it was announced that <a href="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/01/comptia-backs-down-past-certs-remain-valid-for-life.ars">CompTIA has reversed their decision</a>. Basically, any certification obtained before 2011 will still be 'for life.'"</i> Ars notes the coincidence that CompTIA contacted them about the change of heart an hour after Ars's <a href="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/01/thought-that-a-cert-was-good-for-life-think-again.ars">story about CompTIA's initial switcheroo</a> went live.</htmltext>
<tokenext>garg0yle writes " Recently , it was reported that IT certification house CompTIA had changed their A + , Network + , and Security + certifications    rather than being 'for life, ' there would now be a recertification requirement through continuing-education credits ( and an accompanying fee ) .
Needless to say , this made a lot of people very unhappy , and today it was announced that CompTIA has reversed their decision .
Basically , any certification obtained before 2011 will still be 'for life .
' " Ars notes the coincidence that CompTIA contacted them about the change of heart an hour after Ars 's story about CompTIA 's initial switcheroo went live .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>garg0yle writes "Recently, it was reported that IT certification house CompTIA had changed their A+, Network+, and Security+ certifications — rather than being 'for life,' there would now be a recertification requirement through continuing-education credits (and an accompanying fee).
Needless to say, this made a lot of people very unhappy, and today it was announced that CompTIA has reversed their decision.
Basically, any certification obtained before 2011 will still be 'for life.
'" Ars notes the coincidence that CompTIA contacted them about the change of heart an hour after Ars's story about CompTIA's initial switcheroo went live.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909192</id>
	<title>The new meaning of "Lifetime Certification"</title>
	<author>idontgno</author>
	<datestamp>1264497420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It used to be that CompTIA's cert never needed renewal.</p><p>Then someone realized that a "lifetime" technology certification is as valuable as 25-year-old bread, CompTIA changed to say you'd need re-certification periodically.</p><p>But, of course, that didn't fly with the armies of A+ drones who paid good money for their "lifetime" certification.</p><p>CompTIA's new position is, once again, the A+ is good for "lifetime". However, they're sticking to the position that technology moves too fast for an old cert to be still good.</p><p>The compromise position? Once enough time and progress has elapsed since your cert was issued, CompTIA's elite certification ninja team assassinates you. Your cert was, therefore, good for your "lifetime".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It used to be that CompTIA 's cert never needed renewal.Then someone realized that a " lifetime " technology certification is as valuable as 25-year-old bread , CompTIA changed to say you 'd need re-certification periodically.But , of course , that did n't fly with the armies of A + drones who paid good money for their " lifetime " certification.CompTIA 's new position is , once again , the A + is good for " lifetime " .
However , they 're sticking to the position that technology moves too fast for an old cert to be still good.The compromise position ?
Once enough time and progress has elapsed since your cert was issued , CompTIA 's elite certification ninja team assassinates you .
Your cert was , therefore , good for your " lifetime " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It used to be that CompTIA's cert never needed renewal.Then someone realized that a "lifetime" technology certification is as valuable as 25-year-old bread, CompTIA changed to say you'd need re-certification periodically.But, of course, that didn't fly with the armies of A+ drones who paid good money for their "lifetime" certification.CompTIA's new position is, once again, the A+ is good for "lifetime".
However, they're sticking to the position that technology moves too fast for an old cert to be still good.The compromise position?
Once enough time and progress has elapsed since your cert was issued, CompTIA's elite certification ninja team assassinates you.
Your cert was, therefore, good for your "lifetime".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30915202</id>
	<title>Reason is the US Government</title>
	<author>will\_die</author>
	<datestamp>1264593660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The reason for expiring them is the US Government, primarily the DoD.<br>
Under DoD 8570 if you do anything with computers besides basic end user functions you need a security certificate and for most people Security+ is going to be the one needed.  DoD 8570 requires that you keep the certification renewed so with them expiring the exam they have a continual source of income.<br>
Also alot of offices and bases have been requiring A+ and Network+ from all airmen who do basic repairs to computers so with a 3 year expiration there is a good chance they will get a large of of those people having to take the test a second time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason for expiring them is the US Government , primarily the DoD .
Under DoD 8570 if you do anything with computers besides basic end user functions you need a security certificate and for most people Security + is going to be the one needed .
DoD 8570 requires that you keep the certification renewed so with them expiring the exam they have a continual source of income .
Also alot of offices and bases have been requiring A + and Network + from all airmen who do basic repairs to computers so with a 3 year expiration there is a good chance they will get a large of of those people having to take the test a second time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason for expiring them is the US Government, primarily the DoD.
Under DoD 8570 if you do anything with computers besides basic end user functions you need a security certificate and for most people Security+ is going to be the one needed.
DoD 8570 requires that you keep the certification renewed so with them expiring the exam they have a continual source of income.
Also alot of offices and bases have been requiring A+ and Network+ from all airmen who do basic repairs to computers so with a 3 year expiration there is a good chance they will get a large of of those people having to take the test a second time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909172</id>
	<title>I gotta hurry</title>
	<author>robinstar1574</author>
	<datestamp>1264497300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>do they give cirtificates to people graduating high school in 2013 at the moment?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>do they give cirtificates to people graduating high school in 2013 at the moment ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>do they give cirtificates to people graduating high school in 2013 at the moment?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908862</id>
	<title>Where's your Evidence?</title>
	<author>spun</author>
	<datestamp>1264539120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What company do you recommend? Personally, I've found CompTIA certs a useful part of my portfolio of credentials. Not the only part, of course, but worth the money. I've heard people complain that all certifications are worthless, or some are, but I've never seen any evidence. Where's your evidence? Or is this less about evidence and more about polishing your knob?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What company do you recommend ?
Personally , I 've found CompTIA certs a useful part of my portfolio of credentials .
Not the only part , of course , but worth the money .
I 've heard people complain that all certifications are worthless , or some are , but I 've never seen any evidence .
Where 's your evidence ?
Or is this less about evidence and more about polishing your knob ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What company do you recommend?
Personally, I've found CompTIA certs a useful part of my portfolio of credentials.
Not the only part, of course, but worth the money.
I've heard people complain that all certifications are worthless, or some are, but I've never seen any evidence.
Where's your evidence?
Or is this less about evidence and more about polishing your knob?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909970</id>
	<title>Certs that teach OSI/TCP model.</title>
	<author>xxuserxx</author>
	<datestamp>1264500720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I will give a nod to Cisco certs as atleast they make you study the OSI/TCP models in depth with really gives anyone in programming / IT a solid foundation to build off.  But I know that stuff already.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I will give a nod to Cisco certs as atleast they make you study the OSI/TCP models in depth with really gives anyone in programming / IT a solid foundation to build off .
But I know that stuff already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I will give a nod to Cisco certs as atleast they make you study the OSI/TCP models in depth with really gives anyone in programming / IT a solid foundation to build off.
But I know that stuff already.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30912758</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft had this same problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264517580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> I find that if I take a couple months to focus on some piece of software, I turn around and hardware platforms have completely changed while I wasn't looking. Imagine an A+ cert holder from 1995 put in front of a quad-core machine with SAS drives, a huge video card that's basically a mini-computer, and other interfaces that didn't even exist in 1995.</p></div><p>Obviously you are not nearly as hardware savvy as a person who has their A+ from 1995. Roughly the time I took my test and passed. I still know how to take apart and put together a simple desktop unit, and having worked it the field a number of years (Master Bench Tech) I know how to take apart and put back together (leaving no marks) a laptop.</p><p>As far as I am concerned, I paid for a stupid piece of paper and dont need to be re-certified each year. But try telling this to Toshiba.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I find that if I take a couple months to focus on some piece of software , I turn around and hardware platforms have completely changed while I was n't looking .
Imagine an A + cert holder from 1995 put in front of a quad-core machine with SAS drives , a huge video card that 's basically a mini-computer , and other interfaces that did n't even exist in 1995.Obviously you are not nearly as hardware savvy as a person who has their A + from 1995 .
Roughly the time I took my test and passed .
I still know how to take apart and put together a simple desktop unit , and having worked it the field a number of years ( Master Bench Tech ) I know how to take apart and put back together ( leaving no marks ) a laptop.As far as I am concerned , I paid for a stupid piece of paper and dont need to be re-certified each year .
But try telling this to Toshiba .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I find that if I take a couple months to focus on some piece of software, I turn around and hardware platforms have completely changed while I wasn't looking.
Imagine an A+ cert holder from 1995 put in front of a quad-core machine with SAS drives, a huge video card that's basically a mini-computer, and other interfaces that didn't even exist in 1995.Obviously you are not nearly as hardware savvy as a person who has their A+ from 1995.
Roughly the time I took my test and passed.
I still know how to take apart and put together a simple desktop unit, and having worked it the field a number of years (Master Bench Tech) I know how to take apart and put back together (leaving no marks) a laptop.As far as I am concerned, I paid for a stupid piece of paper and dont need to be re-certified each year.
But try telling this to Toshiba.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30912302</id>
	<title>Re:My 1337 386 skillz are still valid!</title>
	<author>Miser</author>
	<datestamp>1264513980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't laugh, my A+ *IS* from 7-AUG-1995.</p><p>Now get off my lawn!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't laugh , my A + * IS * from 7-AUG-1995.Now get off my lawn !
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't laugh, my A+ *IS* from 7-AUG-1995.Now get off my lawn!
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909012</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909158</id>
	<title>OK, fine, but there is value to recertification</title>
	<author>davidwr</author>
	<datestamp>1264497300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>By 2016, anyone with the lifetime cert without recent experience will be hurt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>By 2016 , anyone with the lifetime cert without recent experience will be hurt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By 2016, anyone with the lifetime cert without recent experience will be hurt.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30912400</id>
	<title>Re:CompTIA</title>
	<author>iamhassi</author>
	<datestamp>1264514700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"CompTIA certs only impress people who don't know anything, and are helpful to get you through the HR screening by pasting it on your resume."</i>
<br> <br>
And who is checking these things?  I've been putting A+ and Network+ on my resume for 10 yrs and no one has ever doubted me and, as far as I know, I've never lost a job because of it.  I took the classes and found them to be dreadfully easy <i>"this is ram, it goes in your computer..."</i> or <i>"this is a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Token\_ring" title="wikipedia.org">token ring</a> [wikipedia.org], a form of network that's not often used".  </i> So I didn't finish either of them.
<br> <br>
I've had HR mention "Oh you have your A+ and Network+, that's nice", but no one has ever said "What year did you get those?"  So how many people will actually bother paying $50/yr to "maintain" their certification and CE credits?
<br> <br>
What about it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.'ers, have you ever had a problem with a company wanting a more recent CompTIA certification?</htmltext>
<tokenext>" CompTIA certs only impress people who do n't know anything , and are helpful to get you through the HR screening by pasting it on your resume .
" And who is checking these things ?
I 've been putting A + and Network + on my resume for 10 yrs and no one has ever doubted me and , as far as I know , I 've never lost a job because of it .
I took the classes and found them to be dreadfully easy " this is ram , it goes in your computer... " or " this is a token ring [ wikipedia.org ] , a form of network that 's not often used " .
So I did n't finish either of them .
I 've had HR mention " Oh you have your A + and Network + , that 's nice " , but no one has ever said " What year did you get those ?
" So how many people will actually bother paying $ 50/yr to " maintain " their certification and CE credits ?
What about it / .
'ers , have you ever had a problem with a company wanting a more recent CompTIA certification ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"CompTIA certs only impress people who don't know anything, and are helpful to get you through the HR screening by pasting it on your resume.
"
 
And who is checking these things?
I've been putting A+ and Network+ on my resume for 10 yrs and no one has ever doubted me and, as far as I know, I've never lost a job because of it.
I took the classes and found them to be dreadfully easy "this is ram, it goes in your computer..." or "this is a token ring [wikipedia.org], a form of network that's not often used".
So I didn't finish either of them.
I've had HR mention "Oh you have your A+ and Network+, that's nice", but no one has ever said "What year did you get those?
"  So how many people will actually bother paying $50/yr to "maintain" their certification and CE credits?
What about it /.
'ers, have you ever had a problem with a company wanting a more recent CompTIA certification?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909212</id>
	<title>Re:My 1337 386 skillz are still valid!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264497540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Same boat here. I have no certs, I've just been working in IT for over 10 years now with my 1337 skillz.</p><p>If a potential employeer overlooked my resume because it doesn't have any certs on it, it's likely not a place I'd want to be working anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Same boat here .
I have no certs , I 've just been working in IT for over 10 years now with my 1337 skillz.If a potential employeer overlooked my resume because it does n't have any certs on it , it 's likely not a place I 'd want to be working anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Same boat here.
I have no certs, I've just been working in IT for over 10 years now with my 1337 skillz.If a potential employeer overlooked my resume because it doesn't have any certs on it, it's likely not a place I'd want to be working anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909012</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909012</id>
	<title>My 1337 386 skillz are still valid!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264496580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>W00! this means my A+ from 1995 is still good! Im gona make mad $$ since I know how to boot DOS and unplug keyboards and monitors... I even know how to install a 386sx and 30pin simms!<p>(not really, Im lame cause I never got my A+, just a job as a sysadmin)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>W00 !
this means my A + from 1995 is still good !
Im gona make mad $ $ since I know how to boot DOS and unplug keyboards and monitors... I even know how to install a 386sx and 30pin simms !
( not really , Im lame cause I never got my A + , just a job as a sysadmin )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>W00!
this means my A+ from 1995 is still good!
Im gona make mad $$ since I know how to boot DOS and unplug keyboards and monitors... I even know how to install a 386sx and 30pin simms!
(not really, Im lame cause I never got my A+, just a job as a sysadmin)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909788</id>
	<title>Like this cert ever mattered anyway.</title>
	<author>xxuserxx</author>
	<datestamp>1264499940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Certs are a joke.  Im a highscool dropout, never taken any certs but I do pretty damned well.  When I used to work for a consulting firm and we would get fresh college grads with plenty of certs but a lot of them just didnt have what it takes to make it in consulting.  Now I am the the Sysadmin for a very well known private company and still consult on my off time through word of mouth from my previous clients.  I specialize in Microsoft and Cisco. I do switching, routing and VOIP specifically call manager.  Certs are a joke I have been doing this stuff since I was 14 kiss my ass you corporate mongers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Certs are a joke .
Im a highscool dropout , never taken any certs but I do pretty damned well .
When I used to work for a consulting firm and we would get fresh college grads with plenty of certs but a lot of them just didnt have what it takes to make it in consulting .
Now I am the the Sysadmin for a very well known private company and still consult on my off time through word of mouth from my previous clients .
I specialize in Microsoft and Cisco .
I do switching , routing and VOIP specifically call manager .
Certs are a joke I have been doing this stuff since I was 14 kiss my ass you corporate mongers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Certs are a joke.
Im a highscool dropout, never taken any certs but I do pretty damned well.
When I used to work for a consulting firm and we would get fresh college grads with plenty of certs but a lot of them just didnt have what it takes to make it in consulting.
Now I am the the Sysadmin for a very well known private company and still consult on my off time through word of mouth from my previous clients.
I specialize in Microsoft and Cisco.
I do switching, routing and VOIP specifically call manager.
Certs are a joke I have been doing this stuff since I was 14 kiss my ass you corporate mongers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30913312</id>
	<title>Soooo....</title>
	<author>Hasai</author>
	<datestamp>1264523760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>....If I receive my CompTIA certification in Vacuum Tube Theory prior to 2011, I'm all set, right?<br>];)~</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>....If I receive my CompTIA certification in Vacuum Tube Theory prior to 2011 , I 'm all set , right ?
] ; ) ~</tokentext>
<sentencetext>....If I receive my CompTIA certification in Vacuum Tube Theory prior to 2011, I'm all set, right?
];)~</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909360</id>
	<title>Re:The new meaning of "Lifetime Certification"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264498260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;CompTIA's elite certification ninja team assassinates you.</p><p>Oooooo.  How much is the fees for the elite certification ninja?  I like the idea of getting paid to assassinate people with certificates.  Even minus one of the ass from that is still good.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; CompTIA 's elite certification ninja team assassinates you.Oooooo .
How much is the fees for the elite certification ninja ?
I like the idea of getting paid to assassinate people with certificates .
Even minus one of the ass from that is still good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;CompTIA's elite certification ninja team assassinates you.Oooooo.
How much is the fees for the elite certification ninja?
I like the idea of getting paid to assassinate people with certificates.
Even minus one of the ass from that is still good.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278</id>
	<title>Microsoft had this same problem</title>
	<author>ErichTheRed</author>
	<datestamp>1264497840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being a Windows systems guy, I've kept my Microsoft certifications current over the years. (Say what you will...it gets you past the first resume filter if you ever find yourself in need of a job.) Back when the NT 4.0 certifications were rolling over into the Win2K versions, Microsoft introduced the concept of an expiring cert. Personally, I think part of this was due to the fact that Microsoft significantly increased the difficulty level of the Win2K exams to reduce piracy and try to revalue the credential.</p><p>People who had the NT 4.0 certifications freaked, saying that Microsoft had no right to invalidate their credentials. Microsoft reversed the decision, and made the certifications last as long as support for the product did. They still stop offering exams for new people, but people who have the cert keep it.</p><p>Does this matter? In my mind, no way. I can think of only one place NT 4.0 skills might be valuable today, and it involves embedded systems with no typical Windows user interface. (The New York subway system uses NT 4 for their fare collection machines.) Most places aren't using it for the general file-and-print server work that the certification was aimed at.</p><p>I think it's just the perception of value. Even in 2010, there are a lot of people paying certification mills...I mean, training schools...many thousands of dollars for certification classes so they can "break into the lucrative field of IT." Community colleges regularly integrate the A+, Microsoft and Cisco cert classes into their degree programs. Some of those thousands of dollars are still being paid for long after the cert is achieved. People just don't want to feel they're holding worthless paper. In reality though, things change way too fast to declare that someone is "certified for life" on PC hardware. I find that if I take a couple months to focus on some piece of software, I turn around and hardware platforms have completely changed while I wasn't looking. Imagine an A+ cert holder from 1995 put in front of a quad-core machine with SAS drives, a huge video card that's basically a mini-computer, and other interfaces that didn't even exist in 1995.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being a Windows systems guy , I 've kept my Microsoft certifications current over the years .
( Say what you will...it gets you past the first resume filter if you ever find yourself in need of a job .
) Back when the NT 4.0 certifications were rolling over into the Win2K versions , Microsoft introduced the concept of an expiring cert .
Personally , I think part of this was due to the fact that Microsoft significantly increased the difficulty level of the Win2K exams to reduce piracy and try to revalue the credential.People who had the NT 4.0 certifications freaked , saying that Microsoft had no right to invalidate their credentials .
Microsoft reversed the decision , and made the certifications last as long as support for the product did .
They still stop offering exams for new people , but people who have the cert keep it.Does this matter ?
In my mind , no way .
I can think of only one place NT 4.0 skills might be valuable today , and it involves embedded systems with no typical Windows user interface .
( The New York subway system uses NT 4 for their fare collection machines .
) Most places are n't using it for the general file-and-print server work that the certification was aimed at.I think it 's just the perception of value .
Even in 2010 , there are a lot of people paying certification mills...I mean , training schools...many thousands of dollars for certification classes so they can " break into the lucrative field of IT .
" Community colleges regularly integrate the A + , Microsoft and Cisco cert classes into their degree programs .
Some of those thousands of dollars are still being paid for long after the cert is achieved .
People just do n't want to feel they 're holding worthless paper .
In reality though , things change way too fast to declare that someone is " certified for life " on PC hardware .
I find that if I take a couple months to focus on some piece of software , I turn around and hardware platforms have completely changed while I was n't looking .
Imagine an A + cert holder from 1995 put in front of a quad-core machine with SAS drives , a huge video card that 's basically a mini-computer , and other interfaces that did n't even exist in 1995 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being a Windows systems guy, I've kept my Microsoft certifications current over the years.
(Say what you will...it gets you past the first resume filter if you ever find yourself in need of a job.
) Back when the NT 4.0 certifications were rolling over into the Win2K versions, Microsoft introduced the concept of an expiring cert.
Personally, I think part of this was due to the fact that Microsoft significantly increased the difficulty level of the Win2K exams to reduce piracy and try to revalue the credential.People who had the NT 4.0 certifications freaked, saying that Microsoft had no right to invalidate their credentials.
Microsoft reversed the decision, and made the certifications last as long as support for the product did.
They still stop offering exams for new people, but people who have the cert keep it.Does this matter?
In my mind, no way.
I can think of only one place NT 4.0 skills might be valuable today, and it involves embedded systems with no typical Windows user interface.
(The New York subway system uses NT 4 for their fare collection machines.
) Most places aren't using it for the general file-and-print server work that the certification was aimed at.I think it's just the perception of value.
Even in 2010, there are a lot of people paying certification mills...I mean, training schools...many thousands of dollars for certification classes so they can "break into the lucrative field of IT.
" Community colleges regularly integrate the A+, Microsoft and Cisco cert classes into their degree programs.
Some of those thousands of dollars are still being paid for long after the cert is achieved.
People just don't want to feel they're holding worthless paper.
In reality though, things change way too fast to declare that someone is "certified for life" on PC hardware.
I find that if I take a couple months to focus on some piece of software, I turn around and hardware platforms have completely changed while I wasn't looking.
Imagine an A+ cert holder from 1995 put in front of a quad-core machine with SAS drives, a huge video card that's basically a mini-computer, and other interfaces that didn't even exist in 1995.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909716</id>
	<title>Re:Where's your Evidence?</title>
	<author>ifwm</author>
	<datestamp>1264499640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"I've found CompTIA certs a useful part of my portfolio of credentials"

Well, that's nice, but some of us don't think help desk jockey is a worthy career peak like you do.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" I 've found CompTIA certs a useful part of my portfolio of credentials " Well , that 's nice , but some of us do n't think help desk jockey is a worthy career peak like you do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I've found CompTIA certs a useful part of my portfolio of credentials"

Well, that's nice, but some of us don't think help desk jockey is a worthy career peak like you do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908862</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30979482</id>
	<title>Re:The new meaning of "Lifetime Certification"</title>
	<author>Geminii</author>
	<datestamp>1265029860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's just marketing to try and get more people through their doors this year to fill the coffers after a rocky economic period.
</p><p>
If they were really serious about it, they would stop issuing the A+ certs, allow them to still be 'lifetime', and rename the certificate to something else which expired in N years.
</p><p>
Eventually, employers would stop looking for A+ certifications and start looking for NewZappoWonder+ on CVs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's just marketing to try and get more people through their doors this year to fill the coffers after a rocky economic period .
If they were really serious about it , they would stop issuing the A + certs , allow them to still be 'lifetime ' , and rename the certificate to something else which expired in N years .
Eventually , employers would stop looking for A + certifications and start looking for NewZappoWonder + on CVs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's just marketing to try and get more people through their doors this year to fill the coffers after a rocky economic period.
If they were really serious about it, they would stop issuing the A+ certs, allow them to still be 'lifetime', and rename the certificate to something else which expired in N years.
Eventually, employers would stop looking for A+ certifications and start looking for NewZappoWonder+ on CVs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30914290</id>
	<title>Entry-level</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264535700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm just now breaking into the IT industry, in the hopes that I'll be able to support myself while pursuing a degree in IT.</p><p>I have several Brainbench certifications and recently obtained my Network+ certification.</p><p>All of my jobs have been at low-paying customer service jobs, and the Network+ is helping me obtain a low-level tech support position.</p><p>For someone trying to enter the IT field, certifications are important! In my area, anyway. Because of my certification I can be paid around $14.00 an hour, as opposed to $7.25 an hour.</p><p>In an economy like this (USA, or the world, even) absolutely anything that can help you break into an industry and get decent pay is important.</p><p>The people who are bashing certifications seem to be people who got involved in IT before a "worthless piece of paper" was a requirement to finding employment AT ALL.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm just now breaking into the IT industry , in the hopes that I 'll be able to support myself while pursuing a degree in IT.I have several Brainbench certifications and recently obtained my Network + certification.All of my jobs have been at low-paying customer service jobs , and the Network + is helping me obtain a low-level tech support position.For someone trying to enter the IT field , certifications are important !
In my area , anyway .
Because of my certification I can be paid around $ 14.00 an hour , as opposed to $ 7.25 an hour.In an economy like this ( USA , or the world , even ) absolutely anything that can help you break into an industry and get decent pay is important.The people who are bashing certifications seem to be people who got involved in IT before a " worthless piece of paper " was a requirement to finding employment AT ALL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm just now breaking into the IT industry, in the hopes that I'll be able to support myself while pursuing a degree in IT.I have several Brainbench certifications and recently obtained my Network+ certification.All of my jobs have been at low-paying customer service jobs, and the Network+ is helping me obtain a low-level tech support position.For someone trying to enter the IT field, certifications are important!
In my area, anyway.
Because of my certification I can be paid around $14.00 an hour, as opposed to $7.25 an hour.In an economy like this (USA, or the world, even) absolutely anything that can help you break into an industry and get decent pay is important.The people who are bashing certifications seem to be people who got involved in IT before a "worthless piece of paper" was a requirement to finding employment AT ALL.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909310</id>
	<title>A+</title>
	<author>DarkofPeace</author>
	<datestamp>1264497960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well looking at many entry level job positions, many still require A+ certification. I agree that if you want a job higher up the tech food chain, A+ is worthless, but then again, thats not what its designed for.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well looking at many entry level job positions , many still require A + certification .
I agree that if you want a job higher up the tech food chain , A + is worthless , but then again , thats not what its designed for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well looking at many entry level job positions, many still require A+ certification.
I agree that if you want a job higher up the tech food chain, A+ is worthless, but then again, thats not what its designed for.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30913492</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft had this same problem</title>
	<author>MrCrassic</author>
	<datestamp>1264526160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Does this matter? In my mind, no way. I can think of only one place NT 4.0 skills might be valuable today, and it involves embedded systems with no typical Windows user interface. (The New York subway system uses NT 4 for their fare collection machines.)</p></div><p>I don't think that's correct; last time I saw maintenance being done on them, they were running Windows 2000. PATHVISION for the PATH subway system was, however, running NT 4.0 until they integrated NBCi into it; it now runs Windows XP. Even their card readers run XPe (based off a blue screen I saw).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does this matter ?
In my mind , no way .
I can think of only one place NT 4.0 skills might be valuable today , and it involves embedded systems with no typical Windows user interface .
( The New York subway system uses NT 4 for their fare collection machines .
) I do n't think that 's correct ; last time I saw maintenance being done on them , they were running Windows 2000 .
PATHVISION for the PATH subway system was , however , running NT 4.0 until they integrated NBCi into it ; it now runs Windows XP .
Even their card readers run XPe ( based off a blue screen I saw ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does this matter?
In my mind, no way.
I can think of only one place NT 4.0 skills might be valuable today, and it involves embedded systems with no typical Windows user interface.
(The New York subway system uses NT 4 for their fare collection machines.
)I don't think that's correct; last time I saw maintenance being done on them, they were running Windows 2000.
PATHVISION for the PATH subway system was, however, running NT 4.0 until they integrated NBCi into it; it now runs Windows XP.
Even their card readers run XPe (based off a blue screen I saw).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909576</id>
	<title>Most certificates are self-expiring</title>
	<author>mschuyler</author>
	<datestamp>1264499100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a CNE.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a CNE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a CNE.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908836</id>
	<title>Re:CompTIA</title>
	<author>johnlcallaway</author>
	<datestamp>1264539000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree. I had to take the CompTIA Linux certification several years ago to teach a class and thought it was odd that there was no re-certification requirement. I passed it the first try without too much studying, just taking the sample test and finding out where I needed to brush up. I didn't have to pay for it, so I really didn't think too much about it, it was just one of those things I had to do to make a little extra spending money.
<br> <br>
After I took it I found out that an NT guy with zero Linux experience passed it simply by studying for it.
<br> <br>
CompTIA certs only impress people who don't know anything, and are helpful to get you through the HR screening by pasting it on your resume.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
I had to take the CompTIA Linux certification several years ago to teach a class and thought it was odd that there was no re-certification requirement .
I passed it the first try without too much studying , just taking the sample test and finding out where I needed to brush up .
I did n't have to pay for it , so I really did n't think too much about it , it was just one of those things I had to do to make a little extra spending money .
After I took it I found out that an NT guy with zero Linux experience passed it simply by studying for it .
CompTIA certs only impress people who do n't know anything , and are helpful to get you through the HR screening by pasting it on your resume .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
I had to take the CompTIA Linux certification several years ago to teach a class and thought it was odd that there was no re-certification requirement.
I passed it the first try without too much studying, just taking the sample test and finding out where I needed to brush up.
I didn't have to pay for it, so I really didn't think too much about it, it was just one of those things I had to do to make a little extra spending money.
After I took it I found out that an NT guy with zero Linux experience passed it simply by studying for it.
CompTIA certs only impress people who don't know anything, and are helpful to get you through the HR screening by pasting it on your resume.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909738</id>
	<title>Re:Where's your Evidence?</title>
	<author>bdmorgan</author>
	<datestamp>1264499760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Thanks to braindumps people can just memorize the questions so you'll have MCSEs wondering why DHCP isn't working and they forgot to authorize the server.</p></div><p>Thanks, man. I've been fighting with this DHCP issue for, like, three weeks now.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks to braindumps people can just memorize the questions so you 'll have MCSEs wondering why DHCP is n't working and they forgot to authorize the server.Thanks , man .
I 've been fighting with this DHCP issue for , like , three weeks now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks to braindumps people can just memorize the questions so you'll have MCSEs wondering why DHCP isn't working and they forgot to authorize the server.Thanks, man.
I've been fighting with this DHCP issue for, like, three weeks now.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909066</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909948</id>
	<title>A+, Net+, Security+</title>
	<author>jimbobborg</author>
	<datestamp>1264500660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I work as a contractor for a defense agency.  Part of the requirements to work here include getting an A+ and/or Network+ and a Security+ cert.  If I get deeper in this, I'll have to get a CISSP.  Just more hoops to jump through to keep my job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I work as a contractor for a defense agency .
Part of the requirements to work here include getting an A + and/or Network + and a Security + cert .
If I get deeper in this , I 'll have to get a CISSP .
Just more hoops to jump through to keep my job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work as a contractor for a defense agency.
Part of the requirements to work here include getting an A+ and/or Network+ and a Security+ cert.
If I get deeper in this, I'll have to get a CISSP.
Just more hoops to jump through to keep my job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909066</id>
	<title>Re:Where's your Evidence?</title>
	<author>Volante3192</author>
	<datestamp>1264496880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Evidence is mostly anecdotal, but I bet you could find enough to justify an opinion that certs are worthless on the job; they're only helpful to get the interview.</p><p>Thanks to braindumps people can just memorize the questions so you'll have MCSEs wondering why DHCP isn't working and they forgot to authorize the server.</p><p>Only certs that mean anything are the ones that give you a practical situation and other people grading you, like the CCIEs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Evidence is mostly anecdotal , but I bet you could find enough to justify an opinion that certs are worthless on the job ; they 're only helpful to get the interview.Thanks to braindumps people can just memorize the questions so you 'll have MCSEs wondering why DHCP is n't working and they forgot to authorize the server.Only certs that mean anything are the ones that give you a practical situation and other people grading you , like the CCIEs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Evidence is mostly anecdotal, but I bet you could find enough to justify an opinion that certs are worthless on the job; they're only helpful to get the interview.Thanks to braindumps people can just memorize the questions so you'll have MCSEs wondering why DHCP isn't working and they forgot to authorize the server.Only certs that mean anything are the ones that give you a practical situation and other people grading you, like the CCIEs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908862</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30911968</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft had this same problem</title>
	<author>xxuserxx</author>
	<datestamp>1264511460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I dont need a class to keep up with current hardware when I read PC perspective / hardOCP every day.  Certs are not geared for geeks they are geared for non tech people who want to try geek work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I dont need a class to keep up with current hardware when I read PC perspective / hardOCP every day .
Certs are not geared for geeks they are geared for non tech people who want to try geek work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I dont need a class to keep up with current hardware when I read PC perspective / hardOCP every day.
Certs are not geared for geeks they are geared for non tech people who want to try geek work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30911692</id>
	<title>Re:My 1337 386 skillz are still valid!</title>
	<author>soleblaze</author>
	<datestamp>1264509540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I took my A+ in 2005.  Strangely enough, this still describes most of the material on the test.  It's a horrible certification if you're trying to show that you're current with the technology.  (Of course most employers don't know that)  Of course I applied for a Linux sysadmin position somewhere and they had me take this test at a website.. This was in November, 2008... Parts of the questions asked about setting up XFree86 in ways I haven't done since 1996.  In fact, one of the questions asked me how to setup a 3dfx Voodoo card.  I hope if CompTIA requires you to recertify then they will update the test with relevant questions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I took my A + in 2005 .
Strangely enough , this still describes most of the material on the test .
It 's a horrible certification if you 're trying to show that you 're current with the technology .
( Of course most employers do n't know that ) Of course I applied for a Linux sysadmin position somewhere and they had me take this test at a website.. This was in November , 2008... Parts of the questions asked about setting up XFree86 in ways I have n't done since 1996 .
In fact , one of the questions asked me how to setup a 3dfx Voodoo card .
I hope if CompTIA requires you to recertify then they will update the test with relevant questions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I took my A+ in 2005.
Strangely enough, this still describes most of the material on the test.
It's a horrible certification if you're trying to show that you're current with the technology.
(Of course most employers don't know that)  Of course I applied for a Linux sysadmin position somewhere and they had me take this test at a website.. This was in November, 2008... Parts of the questions asked about setting up XFree86 in ways I haven't done since 1996.
In fact, one of the questions asked me how to setup a 3dfx Voodoo card.
I hope if CompTIA requires you to recertify then they will update the test with relevant questions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909012</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908748</id>
	<title>CompTIA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264538640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>CompTIA certs are the community college diplomas of the IT certification industry. Who cares, unless you're going for an internship or level-1 helpdesk position?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>CompTIA certs are the community college diplomas of the IT certification industry .
Who cares , unless you 're going for an internship or level-1 helpdesk position ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CompTIA certs are the community college diplomas of the IT certification industry.
Who cares, unless you're going for an internship or level-1 helpdesk position?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909298</id>
	<title>Not News</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264497900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know about the rest, but A+ was only ostensibly 'lifetime'.  I got mine around '99, and as soon as the new test came out my cert number was no longer listed in the database online (making it impossible for anyone to verify that I ever got it.)<br>Besides, certs don't give any edge over actual job experience and employers know this.  It's not like any combination of CompTIA certification by itself would get you a job at this point.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about the rest , but A + was only ostensibly 'lifetime' .
I got mine around '99 , and as soon as the new test came out my cert number was no longer listed in the database online ( making it impossible for anyone to verify that I ever got it .
) Besides , certs do n't give any edge over actual job experience and employers know this .
It 's not like any combination of CompTIA certification by itself would get you a job at this point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about the rest, but A+ was only ostensibly 'lifetime'.
I got mine around '99, and as soon as the new test came out my cert number was no longer listed in the database online (making it impossible for anyone to verify that I ever got it.
)Besides, certs don't give any edge over actual job experience and employers know this.
It's not like any combination of CompTIA certification by itself would get you a job at this point.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30910596</id>
	<title>The certification industry is just a big kick back</title>
	<author>Joe The Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1264503300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The certification industry is just a big kick back to m$ and others most of questions have little to do the real world and some of the M$ seem to live in a world of there own software being free and the kinds of setups they have cost to much for many places to have.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The certification industry is just a big kick back to m $ and others most of questions have little to do the real world and some of the M $ seem to live in a world of there own software being free and the kinds of setups they have cost to much for many places to have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The certification industry is just a big kick back to m$ and others most of questions have little to do the real world and some of the M$ seem to live in a world of there own software being free and the kinds of setups they have cost to much for many places to have.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30913406</id>
	<title>Re:My 1337 386 skillz are still valid!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264524960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Same boat here. I have no certs, I've just been working in IT for over 10 years now with my 1337 skillz.</i></p><p><i>If a potential employeer overlooked my resume because it doesn't have any certs on it, it's likely not a place I'd want to be working anyway.</i></p><p>I would say that if your career isn't important enough for you to spend a couple hundred bucks and 90 minutes taking a test to validate your skills then I probably wouldn't want you working for me.</p><p>In my experience there are basically two schools of thought around certs:</p><p>1.  People who have certs: "Yes, they can be elementary and in the scheme of things they are far less relevant than my work experience, but they do have some value.  Most importantly, having a cert is never a hindrance, whereas not having a cert can be."</p><p>2.  People who don't have certs: "Certs are stupid, and they're beneath me.  If you value them at all then you're an idiot and I'd never want to work for you or with you.  It's what I know that's important, not what paper I have hanging on the wall."</p><p>If people of type 2 aren't interested in maximizing their marketability in a competitive job market during a down economy then that's fine with me.  That's that many fewer people that I won't have to compete with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Same boat here .
I have no certs , I 've just been working in IT for over 10 years now with my 1337 skillz.If a potential employeer overlooked my resume because it does n't have any certs on it , it 's likely not a place I 'd want to be working anyway.I would say that if your career is n't important enough for you to spend a couple hundred bucks and 90 minutes taking a test to validate your skills then I probably would n't want you working for me.In my experience there are basically two schools of thought around certs : 1 .
People who have certs : " Yes , they can be elementary and in the scheme of things they are far less relevant than my work experience , but they do have some value .
Most importantly , having a cert is never a hindrance , whereas not having a cert can be. " 2 .
People who do n't have certs : " Certs are stupid , and they 're beneath me .
If you value them at all then you 're an idiot and I 'd never want to work for you or with you .
It 's what I know that 's important , not what paper I have hanging on the wall .
" If people of type 2 are n't interested in maximizing their marketability in a competitive job market during a down economy then that 's fine with me .
That 's that many fewer people that I wo n't have to compete with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Same boat here.
I have no certs, I've just been working in IT for over 10 years now with my 1337 skillz.If a potential employeer overlooked my resume because it doesn't have any certs on it, it's likely not a place I'd want to be working anyway.I would say that if your career isn't important enough for you to spend a couple hundred bucks and 90 minutes taking a test to validate your skills then I probably wouldn't want you working for me.In my experience there are basically two schools of thought around certs:1.
People who have certs: "Yes, they can be elementary and in the scheme of things they are far less relevant than my work experience, but they do have some value.
Most importantly, having a cert is never a hindrance, whereas not having a cert can be."2.
People who don't have certs: "Certs are stupid, and they're beneath me.
If you value them at all then you're an idiot and I'd never want to work for you or with you.
It's what I know that's important, not what paper I have hanging on the wall.
"If people of type 2 aren't interested in maximizing their marketability in a competitive job market during a down economy then that's fine with me.
That's that many fewer people that I won't have to compete with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30911186</id>
	<title>Im sick of comp sci asshats telling me a+ is crap</title>
	<author>voss</author>
	<datestamp>1264506420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just because you have a computer science degree doesnt mean you know how to fix a computer. Memorization is not glamorous but a technician who knows his s--t by heart<br>is a better tech than someone who is winging it. When I went to get my current job, yes having an a+ certification distinguished me from the warm bodies<br>that were applying for the job. An a+ cert is the difference between $7.50 an hour working as a stock boy vs $12-15 an hour + benefits working as a full time tech.</p><p>No the a+ is not for 100k job and its not a substitute for a college degree, but combined with experience it does have its worth and its place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just because you have a computer science degree doesnt mean you know how to fix a computer .
Memorization is not glamorous but a technician who knows his s--t by heartis a better tech than someone who is winging it .
When I went to get my current job , yes having an a + certification distinguished me from the warm bodiesthat were applying for the job .
An a + cert is the difference between $ 7.50 an hour working as a stock boy vs $ 12-15 an hour + benefits working as a full time tech.No the a + is not for 100k job and its not a substitute for a college degree , but combined with experience it does have its worth and its place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just because you have a computer science degree doesnt mean you know how to fix a computer.
Memorization is not glamorous but a technician who knows his s--t by heartis a better tech than someone who is winging it.
When I went to get my current job, yes having an a+ certification distinguished me from the warm bodiesthat were applying for the job.
An a+ cert is the difference between $7.50 an hour working as a stock boy vs $12-15 an hour + benefits working as a full time tech.No the a+ is not for 100k job and its not a substitute for a college degree, but combined with experience it does have its worth and its place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30911852</id>
	<title>Rape the IT croud some more</title>
	<author>dis0wned</author>
	<datestamp>1264510560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>All about the benjamins! I personally dont think the CompTIA certs are worth a pile of dog shit unless you want to be a fucking field monkey replacing motherboards for peanuts.</htmltext>
<tokenext>All about the benjamins !
I personally dont think the CompTIA certs are worth a pile of dog shit unless you want to be a fucking field monkey replacing motherboards for peanuts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All about the benjamins!
I personally dont think the CompTIA certs are worth a pile of dog shit unless you want to be a fucking field monkey replacing motherboards for peanuts.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30910812</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft had this same problem</title>
	<author>Spad</author>
	<datestamp>1264504320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I can think of only one place NT 4.0 skills might be valuable today</p></div><p>Come work in the NHS, where many trusts still run NT4 domains and Exchange 5.5...I really, really wish I was joking.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can think of only one place NT 4.0 skills might be valuable todayCome work in the NHS , where many trusts still run NT4 domains and Exchange 5.5...I really , really wish I was joking .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can think of only one place NT 4.0 skills might be valuable todayCome work in the NHS, where many trusts still run NT4 domains and Exchange 5.5...I really, really wish I was joking.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30979404</id>
	<title>Re:CompTIA</title>
	<author>Geminii</author>
	<datestamp>1265029020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>CompTIA certs only impress people who don't know anything, and are helpful to get you through the HR screening</i>
</p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...but you repeat yourself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>CompTIA certs only impress people who do n't know anything , and are helpful to get you through the HR screening ...but you repeat yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> CompTIA certs only impress people who don't know anything, and are helpful to get you through the HR screening
 ...but you repeat yourself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30910058</id>
	<title>Yeah, and so?</title>
	<author>Paracelcus</author>
	<datestamp>1264501140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK, I'm retired now and my job as an IBM FE, did require me to have certain certs as part of my job, but (IMHO) the single most useless and easy to get cert was the A+.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK , I 'm retired now and my job as an IBM FE , did require me to have certain certs as part of my job , but ( IMHO ) the single most useless and easy to get cert was the A + .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK, I'm retired now and my job as an IBM FE, did require me to have certain certs as part of my job, but (IMHO) the single most useless and easy to get cert was the A+.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909502</id>
	<title>BS degree in Computer Science lasts a lifetime</title>
	<author>monk01</author>
	<datestamp>1264498860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am glad I went for the CS degree, which will last a lifetime. It took me seven years of hard work and tuition money but worth it. During those years, I worked full time. IMO, a college degree commands more respect than a certificate.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am glad I went for the CS degree , which will last a lifetime .
It took me seven years of hard work and tuition money but worth it .
During those years , I worked full time .
IMO , a college degree commands more respect than a certificate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am glad I went for the CS degree, which will last a lifetime.
It took me seven years of hard work and tuition money but worth it.
During those years, I worked full time.
IMO, a college degree commands more respect than a certificate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30911850</id>
	<title>CompTIA Almost Became Irrelevant!</title>
	<author>JakFrost</author>
	<datestamp>1264510560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <b>My CompTIA Certification Story</b> </p><p>I got my <a href="http://www.comptia.org/certifications/listed/a.aspx" title="comptia.org">CompTIA A+</a> [comptia.org] certification working as a repair technician in Computer City (defunct now) in 1999.  Their two tests were pretty good at determining if you had basic skills to be junior computer repair technician.  Their test was valued by employers who wanted some kind of a basic measure of people who did not have a college diploma or a vocational certification from DeVry to determine if they should even bother interviewing you for basic computer support jobs in repair or help desk.  This test is still a basic benchmark of computer repair ability.</p><p>Later as I started working as a junior Windows Desktop &amp; Server Administrator at a small company and I liked what I learned in the study books from the previous exam and I started gaining skills in server administration so I bought study books to learn more and took their new <a href="http://www.comptia.org/certifications/listed/network.aspx" title="comptia.org">Network+</a> [comptia.org] and <a href="http://www.comptia.org/certifications/listed/server.aspx" title="comptia.org">Server+</a> [comptia.org] certifications.  I liked that the study guides gave me a general but well rounded overview of network and server administration and it certainly taught me a few things about the field even though I was already administering two dozen Windows 95 desktops and four Windows NT 4.0 at the company along with the network and Internet connection.  Later CompTIA released a beta of the <a href="http://www.comptia.org/certifications/listed/security.aspx" title="comptia.org">Security+</a> [comptia.org] exam and they invited me to take it and get the certification if I passed the exam after answering and commenting on each of the questions in it.</p><p>I am planning to go back to take the <a href="http://www.comptia.org/certifications/listed/linux.aspx" title="comptia.org">Linux+</a> [comptia.org] certification sometime this year to round-out my CompTIA certification list since I've been doing a little more work with Linux with Asterisk PBX on CentOS based Elastix release.  I know just enough Linux to get around and configure Asterisk but not nearly enough to do any type of even basic administration since I don't use the OS on a daily basis as most people.  I looked at the study guide and it gives a nice rounded view of things to know about Linux to fill in some of the holes that I have in my knowledge and since I'll be reading the guide that I already bought a while back I might as well take the certification.</p><p>Since then I've put 10-years behind my belt and am now a senior Windows Server Engineer with three MCSE's and various vendor hardware certifications like the HP ASE and others.  I will be working on my fourth MCSE this year and some more high end certifications like Cisco, VMWare, Symantec, etc.</p><p> <b>CompTIA Became Almost Irrelevant</b> </p><p>What a strategy for CompTIA, if this passed they would have become irrelevant in the certification field because they decided to change their minds and renege on their past promise of lifetime certification.  If they did decide to expire all the lifetime certifications then I certainly wouldn't bother retaking any of them and I would let them expire since I've moved way beyond what those certifications offer.  I bet that most of the folks in my position would just give up on CompTIA then and forget about them.  The only folks that would have to worry are those in help desk, desktop support and computer repair who need their cert for their job since they haven't moved up from those jobs yet or their employers who would need to spend even more money to keep their techs certified so they can advertise as an A+ certified shop.  Most of these folks who have plans on upward movement within their career already have or will be moving on to the <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/cert-overview.aspx" title="microsoft.com">Microsoft Certified Processional (MCP)</a> [microsoft.com] certifications by now for Windows and Office and I think that they wouldn't bother retaking the CompTIA upgrade exams anyway.</p><p> <b>Microsoft Tried to Expire MCSE Certifications Also</b></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My CompTIA Certification Story I got my CompTIA A + [ comptia.org ] certification working as a repair technician in Computer City ( defunct now ) in 1999 .
Their two tests were pretty good at determining if you had basic skills to be junior computer repair technician .
Their test was valued by employers who wanted some kind of a basic measure of people who did not have a college diploma or a vocational certification from DeVry to determine if they should even bother interviewing you for basic computer support jobs in repair or help desk .
This test is still a basic benchmark of computer repair ability.Later as I started working as a junior Windows Desktop &amp; Server Administrator at a small company and I liked what I learned in the study books from the previous exam and I started gaining skills in server administration so I bought study books to learn more and took their new Network + [ comptia.org ] and Server + [ comptia.org ] certifications .
I liked that the study guides gave me a general but well rounded overview of network and server administration and it certainly taught me a few things about the field even though I was already administering two dozen Windows 95 desktops and four Windows NT 4.0 at the company along with the network and Internet connection .
Later CompTIA released a beta of the Security + [ comptia.org ] exam and they invited me to take it and get the certification if I passed the exam after answering and commenting on each of the questions in it.I am planning to go back to take the Linux + [ comptia.org ] certification sometime this year to round-out my CompTIA certification list since I 've been doing a little more work with Linux with Asterisk PBX on CentOS based Elastix release .
I know just enough Linux to get around and configure Asterisk but not nearly enough to do any type of even basic administration since I do n't use the OS on a daily basis as most people .
I looked at the study guide and it gives a nice rounded view of things to know about Linux to fill in some of the holes that I have in my knowledge and since I 'll be reading the guide that I already bought a while back I might as well take the certification.Since then I 've put 10-years behind my belt and am now a senior Windows Server Engineer with three MCSE 's and various vendor hardware certifications like the HP ASE and others .
I will be working on my fourth MCSE this year and some more high end certifications like Cisco , VMWare , Symantec , etc .
CompTIA Became Almost Irrelevant What a strategy for CompTIA , if this passed they would have become irrelevant in the certification field because they decided to change their minds and renege on their past promise of lifetime certification .
If they did decide to expire all the lifetime certifications then I certainly would n't bother retaking any of them and I would let them expire since I 've moved way beyond what those certifications offer .
I bet that most of the folks in my position would just give up on CompTIA then and forget about them .
The only folks that would have to worry are those in help desk , desktop support and computer repair who need their cert for their job since they have n't moved up from those jobs yet or their employers who would need to spend even more money to keep their techs certified so they can advertise as an A + certified shop .
Most of these folks who have plans on upward movement within their career already have or will be moving on to the Microsoft Certified Processional ( MCP ) [ microsoft.com ] certifications by now for Windows and Office and I think that they would n't bother retaking the CompTIA upgrade exams anyway .
Microsoft Tried to Expire MCSE Certifications Also</tokentext>
<sentencetext> My CompTIA Certification Story I got my CompTIA A+ [comptia.org] certification working as a repair technician in Computer City (defunct now) in 1999.
Their two tests were pretty good at determining if you had basic skills to be junior computer repair technician.
Their test was valued by employers who wanted some kind of a basic measure of people who did not have a college diploma or a vocational certification from DeVry to determine if they should even bother interviewing you for basic computer support jobs in repair or help desk.
This test is still a basic benchmark of computer repair ability.Later as I started working as a junior Windows Desktop &amp; Server Administrator at a small company and I liked what I learned in the study books from the previous exam and I started gaining skills in server administration so I bought study books to learn more and took their new Network+ [comptia.org] and Server+ [comptia.org] certifications.
I liked that the study guides gave me a general but well rounded overview of network and server administration and it certainly taught me a few things about the field even though I was already administering two dozen Windows 95 desktops and four Windows NT 4.0 at the company along with the network and Internet connection.
Later CompTIA released a beta of the Security+ [comptia.org] exam and they invited me to take it and get the certification if I passed the exam after answering and commenting on each of the questions in it.I am planning to go back to take the Linux+ [comptia.org] certification sometime this year to round-out my CompTIA certification list since I've been doing a little more work with Linux with Asterisk PBX on CentOS based Elastix release.
I know just enough Linux to get around and configure Asterisk but not nearly enough to do any type of even basic administration since I don't use the OS on a daily basis as most people.
I looked at the study guide and it gives a nice rounded view of things to know about Linux to fill in some of the holes that I have in my knowledge and since I'll be reading the guide that I already bought a while back I might as well take the certification.Since then I've put 10-years behind my belt and am now a senior Windows Server Engineer with three MCSE's and various vendor hardware certifications like the HP ASE and others.
I will be working on my fourth MCSE this year and some more high end certifications like Cisco, VMWare, Symantec, etc.
CompTIA Became Almost Irrelevant What a strategy for CompTIA, if this passed they would have become irrelevant in the certification field because they decided to change their minds and renege on their past promise of lifetime certification.
If they did decide to expire all the lifetime certifications then I certainly wouldn't bother retaking any of them and I would let them expire since I've moved way beyond what those certifications offer.
I bet that most of the folks in my position would just give up on CompTIA then and forget about them.
The only folks that would have to worry are those in help desk, desktop support and computer repair who need their cert for their job since they haven't moved up from those jobs yet or their employers who would need to spend even more money to keep their techs certified so they can advertise as an A+ certified shop.
Most of these folks who have plans on upward movement within their career already have or will be moving on to the Microsoft Certified Processional (MCP) [microsoft.com] certifications by now for Windows and Office and I think that they wouldn't bother retaking the CompTIA upgrade exams anyway.
Microsoft Tried to Expire MCSE Certifications Also</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909076</id>
	<title>Lifetime incompetency certifications?</title>
	<author>tacarat</author>
	<datestamp>1264496940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7eYnDddsic" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7eYnDddsic</a> [youtube.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = B7eYnDddsic [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7eYnDddsic [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30912648</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft had this same problem</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1264516380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>significantly increased the difficulty level of the Win2K exams to reduce piracy</p></div></blockquote><p>You have GOT to explain how you came to this conclusion<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>significantly increased the difficulty level of the Win2K exams to reduce piracyYou have GOT to explain how you came to this conclusion .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>significantly increased the difficulty level of the Win2K exams to reduce piracyYou have GOT to explain how you came to this conclusion ...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30910066</id>
	<title>re: CompTIA certs.  (Worthless?)</title>
	<author>King\_TJ</author>
	<datestamp>1264501200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I got my A+ a long time ago, because I was out of work and looking for another I.T. job, and figured "Why not?  It's not real expensive to get compared to most of the certs. out there, and it's something else to put on my resume to show I'm still trying to keep up with things."  As I recall, I was a little surprised it asked so many questions that related to old/obsolete computer systems.  (EG.  It had questions about which IRQ and I/O address was the default for COM1 and COM2.  With anything resembling a "modern" version of Windows, this is pretty irrelevant -- but was critical to know if you were configuring MS-DOS based terminal packages and non "plug and play" internal modem cards.)</p><p>Given that, I'm not sure there's a necessity to make people get "re-certified" on a A+?   The most significant feature of the cert. may well be that it forces people to learn a little bit of "historically relevant" computer knowledge.  There are times, as a tech or support person, you'll run into that stuff -- and most self-taught computer people who started learning in the "post MS-DOS" era might not know anything about it otherwise.</p><p>I believe even CompTIA used to say that the A+ was to show "equivalency to a PC technician with 6 months of work experience".  So nobody is supposed to really be *impressed" that you have it.  It's simply an entry-level cert. that proves you're not just a clueless n00b who wants to fix computers because you thought your Playstation or XBox was a lot of fun, and "computers can't be much different than that!".</p><p>As far as it "getting you a job" specifically?  It depends.  A lot of support places require you have the A+ as a prerequisite.  (I think Dell did/does, for example, if you want to do on-site service for them?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I got my A + a long time ago , because I was out of work and looking for another I.T .
job , and figured " Why not ?
It 's not real expensive to get compared to most of the certs .
out there , and it 's something else to put on my resume to show I 'm still trying to keep up with things .
" As I recall , I was a little surprised it asked so many questions that related to old/obsolete computer systems .
( EG. It had questions about which IRQ and I/O address was the default for COM1 and COM2 .
With anything resembling a " modern " version of Windows , this is pretty irrelevant -- but was critical to know if you were configuring MS-DOS based terminal packages and non " plug and play " internal modem cards .
) Given that , I 'm not sure there 's a necessity to make people get " re-certified " on a A + ?
The most significant feature of the cert .
may well be that it forces people to learn a little bit of " historically relevant " computer knowledge .
There are times , as a tech or support person , you 'll run into that stuff -- and most self-taught computer people who started learning in the " post MS-DOS " era might not know anything about it otherwise.I believe even CompTIA used to say that the A + was to show " equivalency to a PC technician with 6 months of work experience " .
So nobody is supposed to really be * impressed " that you have it .
It 's simply an entry-level cert .
that proves you 're not just a clueless n00b who wants to fix computers because you thought your Playstation or XBox was a lot of fun , and " computers ca n't be much different than that !
" .As far as it " getting you a job " specifically ?
It depends .
A lot of support places require you have the A + as a prerequisite .
( I think Dell did/does , for example , if you want to do on-site service for them ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I got my A+ a long time ago, because I was out of work and looking for another I.T.
job, and figured "Why not?
It's not real expensive to get compared to most of the certs.
out there, and it's something else to put on my resume to show I'm still trying to keep up with things.
"  As I recall, I was a little surprised it asked so many questions that related to old/obsolete computer systems.
(EG.  It had questions about which IRQ and I/O address was the default for COM1 and COM2.
With anything resembling a "modern" version of Windows, this is pretty irrelevant -- but was critical to know if you were configuring MS-DOS based terminal packages and non "plug and play" internal modem cards.
)Given that, I'm not sure there's a necessity to make people get "re-certified" on a A+?
The most significant feature of the cert.
may well be that it forces people to learn a little bit of "historically relevant" computer knowledge.
There are times, as a tech or support person, you'll run into that stuff -- and most self-taught computer people who started learning in the "post MS-DOS" era might not know anything about it otherwise.I believe even CompTIA used to say that the A+ was to show "equivalency to a PC technician with 6 months of work experience".
So nobody is supposed to really be *impressed" that you have it.
It's simply an entry-level cert.
that proves you're not just a clueless n00b who wants to fix computers because you thought your Playstation or XBox was a lot of fun, and "computers can't be much different than that!
".As far as it "getting you a job" specifically?
It depends.
A lot of support places require you have the A+ as a prerequisite.
(I think Dell did/does, for example, if you want to do on-site service for them?
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909470</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft had this same problem</title>
	<author>MightyMartian</author>
	<datestamp>1264498680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Which is why, at the end of the day, for a lot of IT topics, the only reasonable measure of competency is experience.  I have no certifications, but I've put together heterogeneous networks of Windows and *nix boxes over LANs and VPNs, built iptables routers, swapped out damned near everything right down to the motherboard, pulled paper jammed into places in printers that one wouldn't think it possible to even get paper into, programmed in various languages, and am now into the wondrous world of virtualization.  I'm not bragging here, because I know plenty of guys in my boat, with no certifications or at least seriously out of date ones.  I've finally reached a level of experience where I'm reasonably comfortable that I'd be a given shot at most IT jobs, though for some reason, a lot of firms still think that these certifications, often pumped out the by the bazillion diploma mills that seem to be out there nowadays, show some core competency.  I will give a bit of a nod to Cisco and Microsoft certifications.  I'm sure the average guy with one of these can bang around in IOS a lot more efficiently than me, or set up a Server 2008 domain with a bit more ease, but I can still guarantee that I can write a routing table or ACL in IOS or install Server 2008 and have workstations logging into it in a day.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Which is why , at the end of the day , for a lot of IT topics , the only reasonable measure of competency is experience .
I have no certifications , but I 've put together heterogeneous networks of Windows and * nix boxes over LANs and VPNs , built iptables routers , swapped out damned near everything right down to the motherboard , pulled paper jammed into places in printers that one would n't think it possible to even get paper into , programmed in various languages , and am now into the wondrous world of virtualization .
I 'm not bragging here , because I know plenty of guys in my boat , with no certifications or at least seriously out of date ones .
I 've finally reached a level of experience where I 'm reasonably comfortable that I 'd be a given shot at most IT jobs , though for some reason , a lot of firms still think that these certifications , often pumped out the by the bazillion diploma mills that seem to be out there nowadays , show some core competency .
I will give a bit of a nod to Cisco and Microsoft certifications .
I 'm sure the average guy with one of these can bang around in IOS a lot more efficiently than me , or set up a Server 2008 domain with a bit more ease , but I can still guarantee that I can write a routing table or ACL in IOS or install Server 2008 and have workstations logging into it in a day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which is why, at the end of the day, for a lot of IT topics, the only reasonable measure of competency is experience.
I have no certifications, but I've put together heterogeneous networks of Windows and *nix boxes over LANs and VPNs, built iptables routers, swapped out damned near everything right down to the motherboard, pulled paper jammed into places in printers that one wouldn't think it possible to even get paper into, programmed in various languages, and am now into the wondrous world of virtualization.
I'm not bragging here, because I know plenty of guys in my boat, with no certifications or at least seriously out of date ones.
I've finally reached a level of experience where I'm reasonably comfortable that I'd be a given shot at most IT jobs, though for some reason, a lot of firms still think that these certifications, often pumped out the by the bazillion diploma mills that seem to be out there nowadays, show some core competency.
I will give a bit of a nod to Cisco and Microsoft certifications.
I'm sure the average guy with one of these can bang around in IOS a lot more efficiently than me, or set up a Server 2008 domain with a bit more ease, but I can still guarantee that I can write a routing table or ACL in IOS or install Server 2008 and have workstations logging into it in a day.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30910120</id>
	<title>Directly to IFWM</title>
	<author>Kr1ll1n</author>
	<datestamp>1264501440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>See, I have 1 CompTIA certification, and nothing else. I also failed 1 CompTIA cert, and never went back for it again, as i knew I had passed, but the info was slightly inaccurate. For the record, I missed by 1 point. I have done the following:

Network Security Analyst
Network Administrator
Systems Engineer
Help Desk
Lead Network Engineer
IT Special Projects
etc....etc.....etc....

I would say your degree is to blame for why you have so much time to post on Slashdot, knocking certifications, but I wouldn't lump degree holders into a category like that. It is very apparent that your problem is attitude. Alot of us cert holders are too busy working to be bothered with a self-righteous prick such as yourself, but since I am in a good position, one that my meager little certification helped me get, I will oblige the rest of the community in telling you to fuck off.</htmltext>
<tokenext>See , I have 1 CompTIA certification , and nothing else .
I also failed 1 CompTIA cert , and never went back for it again , as i knew I had passed , but the info was slightly inaccurate .
For the record , I missed by 1 point .
I have done the following : Network Security Analyst Network Administrator Systems Engineer Help Desk Lead Network Engineer IT Special Projects etc....etc.....etc... . I would say your degree is to blame for why you have so much time to post on Slashdot , knocking certifications , but I would n't lump degree holders into a category like that .
It is very apparent that your problem is attitude .
Alot of us cert holders are too busy working to be bothered with a self-righteous prick such as yourself , but since I am in a good position , one that my meager little certification helped me get , I will oblige the rest of the community in telling you to fuck off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See, I have 1 CompTIA certification, and nothing else.
I also failed 1 CompTIA cert, and never went back for it again, as i knew I had passed, but the info was slightly inaccurate.
For the record, I missed by 1 point.
I have done the following:

Network Security Analyst
Network Administrator
Systems Engineer
Help Desk
Lead Network Engineer
IT Special Projects
etc....etc.....etc....

I would say your degree is to blame for why you have so much time to post on Slashdot, knocking certifications, but I wouldn't lump degree holders into a category like that.
It is very apparent that your problem is attitude.
Alot of us cert holders are too busy working to be bothered with a self-righteous prick such as yourself, but since I am in a good position, one that my meager little certification helped me get, I will oblige the rest of the community in telling you to fuck off.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30910812
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909360
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909192
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909716
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908862
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908748
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30912648
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30979404
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908748
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30912302
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909012
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30910066
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908748
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30979482
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909192
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909738
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909066
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908862
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908748
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30913406
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909212
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909012
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909470
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30913492
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30912758
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30911692
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909012
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30911968
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_26_1916245_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30912400
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908748
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_26_1916245.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30911850
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_26_1916245.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909192
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909360
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30979482
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_26_1916245.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908748
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908862
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909716
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909066
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909738
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30908836
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30912400
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30910066
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30979404
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_26_1916245.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909278
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30912758
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909470
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30913492
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30912648
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30911968
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30910812
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_26_1916245.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909948
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_26_1916245.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909970
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_26_1916245.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909012
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30912302
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30909212
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30913406
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30911692
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_26_1916245.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_26_1916245.30911186
</commentlist>
</conversation>
