<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_23_2138204</id>
	<title>PayPal Freezes the Assets of Wikileaks.org</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1264239600000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>matsh sends word that <a href="http://twitter.com/matshenricson/status/8121622033">PayPal has frozen the assets of wikileaks.org</a>. From their Web site: <i>"Paypal has as of 23rd of January 2010 <a href="http://www.wikileaks.org/">frozen WikiLeaks assets</a>. This is the second time that this happens. The last time we struggled for more than half a year to resolve this issue. By working with the respected and recognized German foundation Wau Holland Stiftung we tried to avoid this from happening again &mdash; apparently without avail."</i> The submitter adds: "Hopefully we can pressure PayPal to resolve this quickly, since this seems like a dangerous political decision."</htmltext>
<tokenext>matsh sends word that PayPal has frozen the assets of wikileaks.org .
From their Web site : " Paypal has as of 23rd of January 2010 frozen WikiLeaks assets .
This is the second time that this happens .
The last time we struggled for more than half a year to resolve this issue .
By working with the respected and recognized German foundation Wau Holland Stiftung we tried to avoid this from happening again    apparently without avail .
" The submitter adds : " Hopefully we can pressure PayPal to resolve this quickly , since this seems like a dangerous political decision .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>matsh sends word that PayPal has frozen the assets of wikileaks.org.
From their Web site: "Paypal has as of 23rd of January 2010 frozen WikiLeaks assets.
This is the second time that this happens.
The last time we struggled for more than half a year to resolve this issue.
By working with the respected and recognized German foundation Wau Holland Stiftung we tried to avoid this from happening again — apparently without avail.
" The submitter adds: "Hopefully we can pressure PayPal to resolve this quickly, since this seems like a dangerous political decision.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874398</id>
	<title>Crooks get assets frozen, news at 11</title>
	<author>jensend</author>
	<datestamp>1264256400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not the biggest fan of PayPal, and I know they've made a lot of bad moves in the past. But this seems to me to be just the system at work as it ought to be. Wikileaks has broken all sorts of laws, caused tons of harm to people, and undermined the rule of law. If anyone expects to have any privacy in the modern world then Wikileaks has to be held accountable for its irresponsible actions. Everybody's pager messages from 9/11, copyrighted works, non-newsworthy military secrets only of use to the enemies of the US whose release endangers those serving in the military, etc. I feel safer knowing their assets are frozen, and so should you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not the biggest fan of PayPal , and I know they 've made a lot of bad moves in the past .
But this seems to me to be just the system at work as it ought to be .
Wikileaks has broken all sorts of laws , caused tons of harm to people , and undermined the rule of law .
If anyone expects to have any privacy in the modern world then Wikileaks has to be held accountable for its irresponsible actions .
Everybody 's pager messages from 9/11 , copyrighted works , non-newsworthy military secrets only of use to the enemies of the US whose release endangers those serving in the military , etc .
I feel safer knowing their assets are frozen , and so should you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not the biggest fan of PayPal, and I know they've made a lot of bad moves in the past.
But this seems to me to be just the system at work as it ought to be.
Wikileaks has broken all sorts of laws, caused tons of harm to people, and undermined the rule of law.
If anyone expects to have any privacy in the modern world then Wikileaks has to be held accountable for its irresponsible actions.
Everybody's pager messages from 9/11, copyrighted works, non-newsworthy military secrets only of use to the enemies of the US whose release endangers those serving in the military, etc.
I feel safer knowing their assets are frozen, and so should you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872958</id>
	<title>Why?</title>
	<author>pitterpatter</author>
	<datestamp>1264244580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd like to see some indication of what prompted Paypal to do this.  Not that it would make a lot of difference, but "because we could" would lead to a different attitude on my part than "because they were a source of malware that kept making unauthorized deposits into their account."</p><p>Not that I think either of those is likely to be their public explanation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd like to see some indication of what prompted Paypal to do this .
Not that it would make a lot of difference , but " because we could " would lead to a different attitude on my part than " because they were a source of malware that kept making unauthorized deposits into their account .
" Not that I think either of those is likely to be their public explanation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd like to see some indication of what prompted Paypal to do this.
Not that it would make a lot of difference, but "because we could" would lead to a different attitude on my part than "because they were a source of malware that kept making unauthorized deposits into their account.
"Not that I think either of those is likely to be their public explanation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30886316</id>
	<title>fuck paypal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264357380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Reading all this all I have to say is fuck paypal. Those bastards screwed me over and reversed months worth of legitamite transactions, seemingly at random for no good reason.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Reading all this all I have to say is fuck paypal .
Those bastards screwed me over and reversed months worth of legitamite transactions , seemingly at random for no good reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reading all this all I have to say is fuck paypal.
Those bastards screwed me over and reversed months worth of legitamite transactions, seemingly at random for no good reason.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873198</id>
	<title>Re:bunch of whiners</title>
	<author>winwar</author>
	<datestamp>1264246440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Whatever they are, they need to at least be able to draw from a credit card or bank account, and need to be quick and hassle-free for the payer to set up and start using."</p><p>You answered your own question.  Credit cards and bank accounts (debit cards).  Businesses and charities don't seem to have a problem with them.  Yes, they cost money to use and set up.  They are also regulated.</p><p>Anyone who uses paypal to manage money that they aren't willing to lose is a moron.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Whatever they are , they need to at least be able to draw from a credit card or bank account , and need to be quick and hassle-free for the payer to set up and start using .
" You answered your own question .
Credit cards and bank accounts ( debit cards ) .
Businesses and charities do n't seem to have a problem with them .
Yes , they cost money to use and set up .
They are also regulated.Anyone who uses paypal to manage money that they are n't willing to lose is a moron .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Whatever they are, they need to at least be able to draw from a credit card or bank account, and need to be quick and hassle-free for the payer to set up and start using.
"You answered your own question.
Credit cards and bank accounts (debit cards).
Businesses and charities don't seem to have a problem with them.
Yes, they cost money to use and set up.
They are also regulated.Anyone who uses paypal to manage money that they aren't willing to lose is a moron.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872954</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872924</id>
	<title>Re:bunch of whiners</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264244400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>it's not like there is no alternative to pay pal. Just use something else.</p></div><p>For example?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's not like there is no alternative to pay pal .
Just use something else.For example ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's not like there is no alternative to pay pal.
Just use something else.For example?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872954</id>
	<title>Re:bunch of whiners</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264244520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>it's not like there is no alternative to pay pal. Just use something else.</i></p><p>Please list some of these wonderful alternatives.</p><p>As much as I hate to say it, paypal is becoming the <i>de-facto</i> method of paying for things on the internet <b>and</b> the de-facto method of accepting free donations.  Think of all the times you see a "help support us" link on someone's page, with a paypal logo/link?  I can't even recall off the top of my head the last time I saw a donation link that <b>wasn't</b> paypal.</p><p>I'm not saying paypal is good, they're not.  But right now they're practically the only game in town.  So what alternatives do you recommend?  Whatever they are, they need to at least be able to draw from a credit card or bank account, and need to be quick and hassle-free for the payer to set up and start using.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's not like there is no alternative to pay pal .
Just use something else.Please list some of these wonderful alternatives.As much as I hate to say it , paypal is becoming the de-facto method of paying for things on the internet and the de-facto method of accepting free donations .
Think of all the times you see a " help support us " link on someone 's page , with a paypal logo/link ?
I ca n't even recall off the top of my head the last time I saw a donation link that was n't paypal.I 'm not saying paypal is good , they 're not .
But right now they 're practically the only game in town .
So what alternatives do you recommend ?
Whatever they are , they need to at least be able to draw from a credit card or bank account , and need to be quick and hassle-free for the payer to set up and start using .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's not like there is no alternative to pay pal.
Just use something else.Please list some of these wonderful alternatives.As much as I hate to say it, paypal is becoming the de-facto method of paying for things on the internet and the de-facto method of accepting free donations.
Think of all the times you see a "help support us" link on someone's page, with a paypal logo/link?
I can't even recall off the top of my head the last time I saw a donation link that wasn't paypal.I'm not saying paypal is good, they're not.
But right now they're practically the only game in town.
So what alternatives do you recommend?
Whatever they are, they need to at least be able to draw from a credit card or bank account, and need to be quick and hassle-free for the payer to set up and start using.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30875792</id>
	<title>Re:Don't use PayPal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264269300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I couldn't even use it if I wanted to. I live in Europe and don't have a credit card. I have tried to buy something online using PayPal once and it simply couldn't be done, which is kind of annoying since all internet shops seem to be using it. On the bright side, at least this way I won't empty my wallet on useless stuff from the internet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I could n't even use it if I wanted to .
I live in Europe and do n't have a credit card .
I have tried to buy something online using PayPal once and it simply could n't be done , which is kind of annoying since all internet shops seem to be using it .
On the bright side , at least this way I wo n't empty my wallet on useless stuff from the internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I couldn't even use it if I wanted to.
I live in Europe and don't have a credit card.
I have tried to buy something online using PayPal once and it simply couldn't be done, which is kind of annoying since all internet shops seem to be using it.
On the bright side, at least this way I won't empty my wallet on useless stuff from the internet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873300</id>
	<title>Re:maybe I'm missing something but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264247040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>For the same reason why people use windows (even though it crashes constantly) because it's a widely accepted standard.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For the same reason why people use windows ( even though it crashes constantly ) because it 's a widely accepted standard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For the same reason why people use windows (even though it crashes constantly) because it's a widely accepted standard.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874234</id>
	<title>Re:The only sane way to use Paypal...</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1264254960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Probably a good idea not to give them access to your credit card, either.  They're a pretend bank, and much like a child's pretend grocery store, you don't want to do <em>actual</em> business with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably a good idea not to give them access to your credit card , either .
They 're a pretend bank , and much like a child 's pretend grocery store , you do n't want to do actual business with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably a good idea not to give them access to your credit card, either.
They're a pretend bank, and much like a child's pretend grocery store, you don't want to do actual business with it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873028</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30875442</id>
	<title>Re:Crooks get assets frozen, news at 11</title>
	<author>cbreak</author>
	<datestamp>1264266120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is not the duty and right of random corporations to commits act of vigilante justice. Until Wikileaks is sentenced by a court, they should not be punished. And once they are, the govermnent should punish them.</p><p>The world would be quite a chaotic place if everyone could do anything under the guise of enforcing his own law.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is not the duty and right of random corporations to commits act of vigilante justice .
Until Wikileaks is sentenced by a court , they should not be punished .
And once they are , the govermnent should punish them.The world would be quite a chaotic place if everyone could do anything under the guise of enforcing his own law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is not the duty and right of random corporations to commits act of vigilante justice.
Until Wikileaks is sentenced by a court, they should not be punished.
And once they are, the govermnent should punish them.The world would be quite a chaotic place if everyone could do anything under the guise of enforcing his own law.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873370</id>
	<title>No SEC or FTC Oversight?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264247400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>How is it that Paypal escapes the oversight of the SEC and the FTC? One or the other should come to bear on them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How is it that Paypal escapes the oversight of the SEC and the FTC ?
One or the other should come to bear on them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is it that Paypal escapes the oversight of the SEC and the FTC?
One or the other should come to bear on them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30877526</id>
	<title>Tough luck, mates</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264339560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am posting anonymously for a reason.</p><p>Let's just say that Paypal is perfectly happy to freeze a NFPs assets and never ever release them. We learned the hard way that unless you have the time and resources to go after them in court, the money is more than likely lost. Lowlife slimeballs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am posting anonymously for a reason.Let 's just say that Paypal is perfectly happy to freeze a NFPs assets and never ever release them .
We learned the hard way that unless you have the time and resources to go after them in court , the money is more than likely lost .
Lowlife slimeballs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am posting anonymously for a reason.Let's just say that Paypal is perfectly happy to freeze a NFPs assets and never ever release them.
We learned the hard way that unless you have the time and resources to go after them in court, the money is more than likely lost.
Lowlife slimeballs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873818</id>
	<title>Re:Probably some low level drone who didn't know</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1264251000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If it is political, then Paypal, as an organization is of unfathomable stupidity.</p></div><p>What would be stupid about it? Who would ever catch them at it? They can just claim that it was for one of the usual reasons, and who can prove otherwise?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If it is political , then Paypal , as an organization is of unfathomable stupidity.What would be stupid about it ?
Who would ever catch them at it ?
They can just claim that it was for one of the usual reasons , and who can prove otherwise ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it is political, then Paypal, as an organization is of unfathomable stupidity.What would be stupid about it?
Who would ever catch them at it?
They can just claim that it was for one of the usual reasons, and who can prove otherwise?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873098</id>
	<title>Re:pecunix among others?</title>
	<author>darkpixel2k</author>
	<datestamp>1264245720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I believe it's time for an alternate, non-US based payment processor to take the place of paypal</p></div><p>
How about <a href="http://cash-4-you.567-364-224.wig47w.cz/" title="wig47w.cz">http://cash-4-you.567-364-224.wig47w.cz</a> [wig47w.cz]?<br>
<br>
If you don't think their URL looks legit, wait 'till you see their account signup page that was designed in FrontPage 97.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe it 's time for an alternate , non-US based payment processor to take the place of paypal How about http : //cash-4-you.567-364-224.wig47w.cz [ wig47w.cz ] ?
If you do n't think their URL looks legit , wait 'till you see their account signup page that was designed in FrontPage 97 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe it's time for an alternate, non-US based payment processor to take the place of paypal
How about http://cash-4-you.567-364-224.wig47w.cz [wig47w.cz]?
If you don't think their URL looks legit, wait 'till you see their account signup page that was designed in FrontPage 97.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30875302</id>
	<title>Re:One word:</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1264264680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Paypal isn't even close to a monopoly. Hell, both Google and Amazon offer equivalent services! People who think Paypal is a monopoly are just too goddamned lazy to do a Google search.</p><p>And you know what? The less Paypal you use, the less of a monopoly they become. AMAZING HOW THAT WORKS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Paypal is n't even close to a monopoly .
Hell , both Google and Amazon offer equivalent services !
People who think Paypal is a monopoly are just too goddamned lazy to do a Google search.And you know what ?
The less Paypal you use , the less of a monopoly they become .
AMAZING HOW THAT WORKS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Paypal isn't even close to a monopoly.
Hell, both Google and Amazon offer equivalent services!
People who think Paypal is a monopoly are just too goddamned lazy to do a Google search.And you know what?
The less Paypal you use, the less of a monopoly they become.
AMAZING HOW THAT WORKS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872982</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873006</id>
	<title>Fsck Paypal use revolution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264244820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try revolution.  May paypal rot in hell.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try revolution .
May paypal rot in hell .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try revolution.
May paypal rot in hell.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30878630</id>
	<title>Sailing international waters.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264351680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's survival of the fittest. Be ready to repel the enemy. And sail on to a safer harbor.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's survival of the fittest .
Be ready to repel the enemy .
And sail on to a safer harbor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's survival of the fittest.
Be ready to repel the enemy.
And sail on to a safer harbor.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873088</id>
	<title>Jumping the gun</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264245600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's nothing really wrong with PayPal on the whole, the average person really has not a clue the amount of fraud that is attempted and prevented via PayPal.</p><p>What people bitch about is the fees, and that is their only axe to grind.</p><p>If money has been frozen it is BECAUSE someone has attempted to defraud someone. What likely has happened is that someone donated to wikileaks with a stolen credit card one too many times and it automatically triggered a freeze.</p><p>I don't know why people complain about not being defrauded. Paypal is at the very least one step ahead of the banks in preventing fraud.</p><p>Do you know how the ACH system in the US works?<br>If you know, anyone's checking account number, you can basically defraud the hell out of them and the banks will allow it till the person catches on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's nothing really wrong with PayPal on the whole , the average person really has not a clue the amount of fraud that is attempted and prevented via PayPal.What people bitch about is the fees , and that is their only axe to grind.If money has been frozen it is BECAUSE someone has attempted to defraud someone .
What likely has happened is that someone donated to wikileaks with a stolen credit card one too many times and it automatically triggered a freeze.I do n't know why people complain about not being defrauded .
Paypal is at the very least one step ahead of the banks in preventing fraud.Do you know how the ACH system in the US works ? If you know , anyone 's checking account number , you can basically defraud the hell out of them and the banks will allow it till the person catches on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's nothing really wrong with PayPal on the whole, the average person really has not a clue the amount of fraud that is attempted and prevented via PayPal.What people bitch about is the fees, and that is their only axe to grind.If money has been frozen it is BECAUSE someone has attempted to defraud someone.
What likely has happened is that someone donated to wikileaks with a stolen credit card one too many times and it automatically triggered a freeze.I don't know why people complain about not being defrauded.
Paypal is at the very least one step ahead of the banks in preventing fraud.Do you know how the ACH system in the US works?If you know, anyone's checking account number, you can basically defraud the hell out of them and the banks will allow it till the person catches on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874242</id>
	<title>PayPal should be put on oversight</title>
	<author>jonfr</author>
	<datestamp>1264255020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>PayPal should and needs to be put on oversight from a bank regulator. What it does cannot be left un-regulated as it is today. Abuse of this of part of PayPal is all too common. Use google to find more examples.</p><p>GoogleCash also needs to follow under the same rules as PayPal. However I am yet to hear of this type of case from GoogleCash as I do with Paypal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>PayPal should and needs to be put on oversight from a bank regulator .
What it does can not be left un-regulated as it is today .
Abuse of this of part of PayPal is all too common .
Use google to find more examples.GoogleCash also needs to follow under the same rules as PayPal .
However I am yet to hear of this type of case from GoogleCash as I do with Paypal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PayPal should and needs to be put on oversight from a bank regulator.
What it does cannot be left un-regulated as it is today.
Abuse of this of part of PayPal is all too common.
Use google to find more examples.GoogleCash also needs to follow under the same rules as PayPal.
However I am yet to hear of this type of case from GoogleCash as I do with Paypal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30882890</id>
	<title>Wikileaks switch to tipit.to</title>
	<author>MrBuds</author>
	<datestamp>1264331940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>From <a href="http://twitter.com/wikileaks" title="twitter.com" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/wikileaks</a> [twitter.com]

WikiLeaks now accept credit card donations without paypal. thanks! <a href="http://bit.ly/wldonate" title="bit.ly" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/wldonate</a> [bit.ly]

<a href="https://tipit.to/wikileaks.org" title="tipit.to" rel="nofollow">https://tipit.to/wikileaks.org</a> [tipit.to]

Unfortunately tipit is down at the moment i write this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From http : //twitter.com/wikileaks [ twitter.com ] WikiLeaks now accept credit card donations without paypal .
thanks ! http : //bit.ly/wldonate [ bit.ly ] https : //tipit.to/wikileaks.org [ tipit.to ] Unfortunately tipit is down at the moment i write this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From http://twitter.com/wikileaks [twitter.com]

WikiLeaks now accept credit card donations without paypal.
thanks! http://bit.ly/wldonate [bit.ly]

https://tipit.to/wikileaks.org [tipit.to]

Unfortunately tipit is down at the moment i write this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873592</id>
	<title>Re:maybe I'm missing something but...</title>
	<author>Low Ranked Craig</author>
	<datestamp>1264249260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're not missing anything...</p><p>Why the fuck would ANYONE use PayPal?  They want a shit load of personal info on you, including bank account numbers, etc, and if you follow all their rules to the letter and someone else breaks them when doing a transaction with you they can, and usually do, freeze your account, and it can take up to 180 days to get your money. I got burned a couple of years ago and I haven't been back since - it's just not worth the hassle.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're not missing anything...Why the fuck would ANYONE use PayPal ?
They want a shit load of personal info on you , including bank account numbers , etc , and if you follow all their rules to the letter and someone else breaks them when doing a transaction with you they can , and usually do , freeze your account , and it can take up to 180 days to get your money .
I got burned a couple of years ago and I have n't been back since - it 's just not worth the hassle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're not missing anything...Why the fuck would ANYONE use PayPal?
They want a shit load of personal info on you, including bank account numbers, etc, and if you follow all their rules to the letter and someone else breaks them when doing a transaction with you they can, and usually do, freeze your account, and it can take up to 180 days to get your money.
I got burned a couple of years ago and I haven't been back since - it's just not worth the hassle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873822</id>
	<title>Square, if it materializes, could have an impact</title>
	<author>linuxtelephony</author>
	<datestamp>1264251000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Depending on whether or not <a href="https://squareup.com/" title="squareup.com">square</a> [squareup.com] allows its service to be used by websites in addition to the physical swipe of the card, then Square could be going right for PayPal's jugular. Of course there are other variables too - sign up process, fees, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Depending on whether or not square [ squareup.com ] allows its service to be used by websites in addition to the physical swipe of the card , then Square could be going right for PayPal 's jugular .
Of course there are other variables too - sign up process , fees , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Depending on whether or not square [squareup.com] allows its service to be used by websites in addition to the physical swipe of the card, then Square could be going right for PayPal's jugular.
Of course there are other variables too - sign up process, fees, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30875058</id>
	<title>Revolution money is paypal competitor</title>
	<author>fregare</author>
	<datestamp>1264262580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Recently acquired by American Express.  Has any one used it as an alternative to paypal?  The company is called Revolution Money:
              <a href="http://www.revolutionmoney.com/default.aspx" title="revolutionmoney.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.revolutionmoney.com/default.aspx</a> [revolutionmoney.com]

Guys, give me your opinion.  Amazing that no one on Slashdot has heard it of it.  Simply amazing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Recently acquired by American Express .
Has any one used it as an alternative to paypal ?
The company is called Revolution Money : http : //www.revolutionmoney.com/default.aspx [ revolutionmoney.com ] Guys , give me your opinion .
Amazing that no one on Slashdot has heard it of it .
Simply amazing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Recently acquired by American Express.
Has any one used it as an alternative to paypal?
The company is called Revolution Money:
              http://www.revolutionmoney.com/default.aspx [revolutionmoney.com]

Guys, give me your opinion.
Amazing that no one on Slashdot has heard it of it.
Simply amazing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30876036</id>
	<title>Re:Dude.. What's wrong with pornographers?</title>
	<author>Jumperalex</author>
	<datestamp>1264271640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>hmmm I could be wrong but he was converting to a business account.  I'm pretty sure SSN is required for tax documents etc associated with business accounts.  Don't get me wrong, I agree in general with your sentiments about mis/over-use of the SSN but in this case it seems like SSN use isn't that out of the norm [shrug]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>hmmm I could be wrong but he was converting to a business account .
I 'm pretty sure SSN is required for tax documents etc associated with business accounts .
Do n't get me wrong , I agree in general with your sentiments about mis/over-use of the SSN but in this case it seems like SSN use is n't that out of the norm [ shrug ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hmmm I could be wrong but he was converting to a business account.
I'm pretty sure SSN is required for tax documents etc associated with business accounts.
Don't get me wrong, I agree in general with your sentiments about mis/over-use of the SSN but in this case it seems like SSN use isn't that out of the norm [shrug]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874008</id>
	<title>Email your Congressman or MP!</title>
	<author>pearl298</author>
	<datestamp>1264252860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is an issue which every politician should help to resolve. The few honest ones who actually support open government might actually do so!</p><p>I sent this email to my US Congress Representative - Harry Mitchell D-Arizona 5th District <a href="http://www.mitchell.house.gov/" title="house.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.mitchell.house.gov/</a> [house.gov]</p><p>"President Obama was elected on a promise of more openness in government. One of the organizations which support this goal is a website known as WikiLeaks. <a href="http://www.wikileaks.org/" title="wikileaks.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.wikileaks.org/</a> [wikileaks.org]</p><p>Wikileaks does not accept government money in any form, but rely on independent donations. It appears that today PayPal has suspended their account as WikiLeaks struggles to raise funds for their 2010 expenses.</p><p>Quote from the website:<br>"Paypal has as of 23rd of January 2010 frozen WikiLeaks assets. This is the second time that this happens. The last time we struggled for more than half a year to resolve this issue. By working with the respected and recognized German foundation Wau Holland Stiftung we tried to avoid this from happening again -- apparently without avail.</p><p>We are working on resolving this issue as fast as possible. Please use our bank accounts for direct transfer in the meantime, or contact wl-donations@sunshinepress.org for any further questions.</p><p>WikiLeaks is not the only non-profit organization with this problem. This is a regular occurrence, that from our perspective should not be tolerated by the global community using this payment system."</p><p>This appears to be politically motivated and something which should be investigated!</p><p>I am sure you will agree that this is not merely an issue between private parties, but one of immense importance to supporters of open and accountable government everywhere.</p><p>As your constituent, I urge you to use whatever influence that you can bring to bear to investigate this situation and to expose whatever wrongdoing is involved - wrongdoing by EITHER party in this dispute.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is an issue which every politician should help to resolve .
The few honest ones who actually support open government might actually do so ! I sent this email to my US Congress Representative - Harry Mitchell D-Arizona 5th District http : //www.mitchell.house.gov/ [ house.gov ] " President Obama was elected on a promise of more openness in government .
One of the organizations which support this goal is a website known as WikiLeaks .
http : //www.wikileaks.org/ [ wikileaks.org ] Wikileaks does not accept government money in any form , but rely on independent donations .
It appears that today PayPal has suspended their account as WikiLeaks struggles to raise funds for their 2010 expenses.Quote from the website : " Paypal has as of 23rd of January 2010 frozen WikiLeaks assets .
This is the second time that this happens .
The last time we struggled for more than half a year to resolve this issue .
By working with the respected and recognized German foundation Wau Holland Stiftung we tried to avoid this from happening again -- apparently without avail.We are working on resolving this issue as fast as possible .
Please use our bank accounts for direct transfer in the meantime , or contact wl-donations @ sunshinepress.org for any further questions.WikiLeaks is not the only non-profit organization with this problem .
This is a regular occurrence , that from our perspective should not be tolerated by the global community using this payment system .
" This appears to be politically motivated and something which should be investigated ! I am sure you will agree that this is not merely an issue between private parties , but one of immense importance to supporters of open and accountable government everywhere.As your constituent , I urge you to use whatever influence that you can bring to bear to investigate this situation and to expose whatever wrongdoing is involved - wrongdoing by EITHER party in this dispute .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is an issue which every politician should help to resolve.
The few honest ones who actually support open government might actually do so!I sent this email to my US Congress Representative - Harry Mitchell D-Arizona 5th District http://www.mitchell.house.gov/ [house.gov]"President Obama was elected on a promise of more openness in government.
One of the organizations which support this goal is a website known as WikiLeaks.
http://www.wikileaks.org/ [wikileaks.org]Wikileaks does not accept government money in any form, but rely on independent donations.
It appears that today PayPal has suspended their account as WikiLeaks struggles to raise funds for their 2010 expenses.Quote from the website:"Paypal has as of 23rd of January 2010 frozen WikiLeaks assets.
This is the second time that this happens.
The last time we struggled for more than half a year to resolve this issue.
By working with the respected and recognized German foundation Wau Holland Stiftung we tried to avoid this from happening again -- apparently without avail.We are working on resolving this issue as fast as possible.
Please use our bank accounts for direct transfer in the meantime, or contact wl-donations@sunshinepress.org for any further questions.WikiLeaks is not the only non-profit organization with this problem.
This is a regular occurrence, that from our perspective should not be tolerated by the global community using this payment system.
"This appears to be politically motivated and something which should be investigated!I am sure you will agree that this is not merely an issue between private parties, but one of immense importance to supporters of open and accountable government everywhere.As your constituent, I urge you to use whatever influence that you can bring to bear to investigate this situation and to expose whatever wrongdoing is involved - wrongdoing by EITHER party in this dispute.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874484</id>
	<title>I won't contribute one thin dime to Wikileaks</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1264257180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I considered supported Wikileaks - until they pulled their "we have money to operate, but we're shutting down until we get more" stunt.  They don't get another dime from me, as they've proved they can't be trusted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I considered supported Wikileaks - until they pulled their " we have money to operate , but we 're shutting down until we get more " stunt .
They do n't get another dime from me , as they 've proved they ca n't be trusted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I considered supported Wikileaks - until they pulled their "we have money to operate, but we're shutting down until we get more" stunt.
They don't get another dime from me, as they've proved they can't be trusted.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30897322</id>
	<title>lets DOS paypal</title>
	<author>cheekyboy</author>
	<datestamp>1264420560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If someone got the top 1000 paypal users, and use fake CCs to pay into them or trigger something else, they would freeze 1000 of their best customers, it would be funny.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If someone got the top 1000 paypal users , and use fake CCs to pay into them or trigger something else , they would freeze 1000 of their best customers , it would be funny .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If someone got the top 1000 paypal users, and use fake CCs to pay into them or trigger something else, they would freeze 1000 of their best customers, it would be funny.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30883186</id>
	<title>Re:Wikileaks is webbugged!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264334220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why does your URL contain an @ sign?  You know that means that your article is hosted on spyblog.org.uk (not hostingprod.com), right?</p><p>Looks fishy...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why does your URL contain an @ sign ?
You know that means that your article is hosted on spyblog.org.uk ( not hostingprod.com ) , right ? Looks fishy.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why does your URL contain an @ sign?
You know that means that your article is hosted on spyblog.org.uk (not hostingprod.com), right?Looks fishy...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872928</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874474</id>
	<title>Typical Slashdot slander.</title>
	<author>MrPerfekt</author>
	<datestamp>1264257060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No wrong could possibly ever be done by the end user. It's always PayPal's fault. Ridiculous!</p><p>Half of the things that wikileaks does is borderline illegal. I'm not saying that the things they expose don't, but there might be better means of doing it. I have no idea if Wikileaks has broken the ToS but it's perfectly within PayPal's rights to freeze an account for fraud.</p><p>9 times out of 10, it's an automatic restriction put in place by various fraud rules. It happens and is also why PayPal doesn't lose their ass to fraud.</p><p>PayPal for the record of course wants to become a bank. But it's a long slow process to do so. Stop acting like PayPal is trying to skirt the law by not being a US bank. It's more of a hassle sometimes to not be and certainly costs more in the end.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No wrong could possibly ever be done by the end user .
It 's always PayPal 's fault .
Ridiculous ! Half of the things that wikileaks does is borderline illegal .
I 'm not saying that the things they expose do n't , but there might be better means of doing it .
I have no idea if Wikileaks has broken the ToS but it 's perfectly within PayPal 's rights to freeze an account for fraud.9 times out of 10 , it 's an automatic restriction put in place by various fraud rules .
It happens and is also why PayPal does n't lose their ass to fraud.PayPal for the record of course wants to become a bank .
But it 's a long slow process to do so .
Stop acting like PayPal is trying to skirt the law by not being a US bank .
It 's more of a hassle sometimes to not be and certainly costs more in the end .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No wrong could possibly ever be done by the end user.
It's always PayPal's fault.
Ridiculous!Half of the things that wikileaks does is borderline illegal.
I'm not saying that the things they expose don't, but there might be better means of doing it.
I have no idea if Wikileaks has broken the ToS but it's perfectly within PayPal's rights to freeze an account for fraud.9 times out of 10, it's an automatic restriction put in place by various fraud rules.
It happens and is also why PayPal doesn't lose their ass to fraud.PayPal for the record of course wants to become a bank.
But it's a long slow process to do so.
Stop acting like PayPal is trying to skirt the law by not being a US bank.
It's more of a hassle sometimes to not be and certainly costs more in the end.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873028</id>
	<title>The only sane way to use Paypal...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264245060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...is to empty the account every day. There is no sense in keeping any amount of money within their graps as they have shown time and time again they will freeze access without real cause or warning.</p><p>I was part of the collective to buy <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-Opener" title="wikipedia.org">i-Opener</a> [wikipedia.org] machines from the failed Netpliance company. We used Paypal to collect fund from participants as that seemed to be the best way at the moment... How wrong we were... Paypal froze access to the account once it had accumulated enough money for them to be profitable to draw interest from. Of course they did NOT block payment into the account, just access to the funds. They had no real reason to freeze the account and ignored their own rules in both freezing and unblocking the account. They just sat on the money for a month or two, drawing interest from it. When they finally unblocked the account - again without giving any reason whatsoever - the deal with Netpliance had almost bounced.</p><p>Paypal is not a bank. Don't treat it as a bank. Don't entrust them with your money. Don't give them access to a debit account, only to a credit card.</p><p>Paypal, in short, can not be trusted. Use it at your own peril, only use credit cards so you can reverse the transaction. Never ever accumulate any real amount of money on a Paypal account.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...is to empty the account every day .
There is no sense in keeping any amount of money within their graps as they have shown time and time again they will freeze access without real cause or warning.I was part of the collective to buy i-Opener [ wikipedia.org ] machines from the failed Netpliance company .
We used Paypal to collect fund from participants as that seemed to be the best way at the moment... How wrong we were... Paypal froze access to the account once it had accumulated enough money for them to be profitable to draw interest from .
Of course they did NOT block payment into the account , just access to the funds .
They had no real reason to freeze the account and ignored their own rules in both freezing and unblocking the account .
They just sat on the money for a month or two , drawing interest from it .
When they finally unblocked the account - again without giving any reason whatsoever - the deal with Netpliance had almost bounced.Paypal is not a bank .
Do n't treat it as a bank .
Do n't entrust them with your money .
Do n't give them access to a debit account , only to a credit card.Paypal , in short , can not be trusted .
Use it at your own peril , only use credit cards so you can reverse the transaction .
Never ever accumulate any real amount of money on a Paypal account .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...is to empty the account every day.
There is no sense in keeping any amount of money within their graps as they have shown time and time again they will freeze access without real cause or warning.I was part of the collective to buy i-Opener [wikipedia.org] machines from the failed Netpliance company.
We used Paypal to collect fund from participants as that seemed to be the best way at the moment... How wrong we were... Paypal froze access to the account once it had accumulated enough money for them to be profitable to draw interest from.
Of course they did NOT block payment into the account, just access to the funds.
They had no real reason to freeze the account and ignored their own rules in both freezing and unblocking the account.
They just sat on the money for a month or two, drawing interest from it.
When they finally unblocked the account - again without giving any reason whatsoever - the deal with Netpliance had almost bounced.Paypal is not a bank.
Don't treat it as a bank.
Don't entrust them with your money.
Don't give them access to a debit account, only to a credit card.Paypal, in short, can not be trusted.
Use it at your own peril, only use credit cards so you can reverse the transaction.
Never ever accumulate any real amount of money on a Paypal account.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30877758</id>
	<title>Re:pecunix among others?</title>
	<author>tcrown007</author>
	<datestamp>1264343340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No non-US source can operate successfully in the US. why? becasue the banks are regulated. All US banks are prohibited from doing business with anyone the US government or some unelected policy wonk says not to.  If you cant' transfer money to this non-US entity via any american bank, how are you going to use them?</p><p>Everyone here is cyring for paypal to be regulated like a bank.  That would change the problem, but would still be a problem nonetheless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No non-US source can operate successfully in the US .
why ? becasue the banks are regulated .
All US banks are prohibited from doing business with anyone the US government or some unelected policy wonk says not to .
If you cant ' transfer money to this non-US entity via any american bank , how are you going to use them ? Everyone here is cyring for paypal to be regulated like a bank .
That would change the problem , but would still be a problem nonetheless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No non-US source can operate successfully in the US.
why? becasue the banks are regulated.
All US banks are prohibited from doing business with anyone the US government or some unelected policy wonk says not to.
If you cant' transfer money to this non-US entity via any american bank, how are you going to use them?Everyone here is cyring for paypal to be regulated like a bank.
That would change the problem, but would still be a problem nonetheless.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873228</id>
	<title>They're probably even slimier than we think</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264246620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> Every time I buy something with PayPal, I wind up getting inundated with fake "update your account" requests and various other kinds of PP-related spam.  This is on a system scrubbed by various effective anti-spyware and anti-virus programs and, sometimes, even an on-line scan.  The only logical conclusion is that PayPal is at the bottom of the problem. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every time I buy something with PayPal , I wind up getting inundated with fake " update your account " requests and various other kinds of PP-related spam .
This is on a system scrubbed by various effective anti-spyware and anti-virus programs and , sometimes , even an on-line scan .
The only logical conclusion is that PayPal is at the bottom of the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Every time I buy something with PayPal, I wind up getting inundated with fake "update your account" requests and various other kinds of PP-related spam.
This is on a system scrubbed by various effective anti-spyware and anti-virus programs and, sometimes, even an on-line scan.
The only logical conclusion is that PayPal is at the bottom of the problem. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30877430</id>
	<title>Re:pecunix among others?</title>
	<author>u38cg</author>
	<datestamp>1264337520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The requiring personal information will not go away, as it is essential to stopping money-laundering.  Any financial service that lets you move large amounts of money swiftly is subject to these rules, just about anywhere in the world.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The requiring personal information will not go away , as it is essential to stopping money-laundering .
Any financial service that lets you move large amounts of money swiftly is subject to these rules , just about anywhere in the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The requiring personal information will not go away, as it is essential to stopping money-laundering.
Any financial service that lets you move large amounts of money swiftly is subject to these rules, just about anywhere in the world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30876562</id>
	<title>Re:maybe I'm missing something but...</title>
	<author>mahadiga</author>
	<datestamp>1264365180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?</p></div></blockquote><p>
Because <i>donors</i> find it easy to contribute with just few clicks using Paypal.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal ?
Because donors find it easy to contribute with just few clicks using Paypal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?
Because donors find it easy to contribute with just few clicks using Paypal.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30875382</id>
	<title>Too much, too soon?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264265460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow  a lot of wild speculation as to why this happened.  But if you go to the wikileaks.org site, they are doing a fund-raising drive right now.  It's possible that they collected a lot of money in a short amount of time<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... they said they needed just under $200k and they raised $130k of it already?  That is a lot from PayPal's perspective<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... probably a dramatic increase in what they are used to seeing for this organization.</p><p>Every single merchant account will cut you off if you go over a pre-approved amount in a short amount of time.  My company had it happen to us before (2Checkout).  They are essentially floating you a loan until they get paid from credit card companies.  Based on the stakeholder's PERSONAL income, etc. they determine a credit line.  If you cross it, they freeze.  Our rep at PayPal has told us that -- if we're running a promotion or something we think will trigger a dramatic increase in sales -- to contact him so he can run interference before the fraud department freezes our account.</p><p>Since this happened on a Saturday, it's possible that they met some sort of threshold for their account.  There seems to be a lot of angst about PayPal, but if you play by their rules, all is smooth.  We've used them as our primary merchant account (using their PayPal Website Payments Pro API as well as their Express Payments products) since 2002, and they are very responsive to our phone calls and emails.  They've never once shut us down.  (Knocks on wood.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow a lot of wild speculation as to why this happened .
But if you go to the wikileaks.org site , they are doing a fund-raising drive right now .
It 's possible that they collected a lot of money in a short amount of time ... they said they needed just under $ 200k and they raised $ 130k of it already ?
That is a lot from PayPal 's perspective ... probably a dramatic increase in what they are used to seeing for this organization.Every single merchant account will cut you off if you go over a pre-approved amount in a short amount of time .
My company had it happen to us before ( 2Checkout ) .
They are essentially floating you a loan until they get paid from credit card companies .
Based on the stakeholder 's PERSONAL income , etc .
they determine a credit line .
If you cross it , they freeze .
Our rep at PayPal has told us that -- if we 're running a promotion or something we think will trigger a dramatic increase in sales -- to contact him so he can run interference before the fraud department freezes our account.Since this happened on a Saturday , it 's possible that they met some sort of threshold for their account .
There seems to be a lot of angst about PayPal , but if you play by their rules , all is smooth .
We 've used them as our primary merchant account ( using their PayPal Website Payments Pro API as well as their Express Payments products ) since 2002 , and they are very responsive to our phone calls and emails .
They 've never once shut us down .
( Knocks on wood .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow  a lot of wild speculation as to why this happened.
But if you go to the wikileaks.org site, they are doing a fund-raising drive right now.
It's possible that they collected a lot of money in a short amount of time ... they said they needed just under $200k and they raised $130k of it already?
That is a lot from PayPal's perspective ... probably a dramatic increase in what they are used to seeing for this organization.Every single merchant account will cut you off if you go over a pre-approved amount in a short amount of time.
My company had it happen to us before (2Checkout).
They are essentially floating you a loan until they get paid from credit card companies.
Based on the stakeholder's PERSONAL income, etc.
they determine a credit line.
If you cross it, they freeze.
Our rep at PayPal has told us that -- if we're running a promotion or something we think will trigger a dramatic increase in sales -- to contact him so he can run interference before the fraud department freezes our account.Since this happened on a Saturday, it's possible that they met some sort of threshold for their account.
There seems to be a lot of angst about PayPal, but if you play by their rules, all is smooth.
We've used them as our primary merchant account (using their PayPal Website Payments Pro API as well as their Express Payments products) since 2002, and they are very responsive to our phone calls and emails.
They've never once shut us down.
(Knocks on wood.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872856</id>
	<title>pecunix among others?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264243860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Paypal has a long history of doing this sort of thing to people.</p><p>In addition to that, they have a history of requiring personal information from people (due in large part to US law)</p><p>I believe it's time for an alternate, non-US based payment processor to take the place of paypal, the problem is there are so many to choose from. I like pecunix for their security (and the fact they aren't US based.. and use a market-maker approach, which helps to create competition in the exchange rates)</p><p>But what about others? how come we're held hostage to paypal when other systems exist?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Paypal has a long history of doing this sort of thing to people.In addition to that , they have a history of requiring personal information from people ( due in large part to US law ) I believe it 's time for an alternate , non-US based payment processor to take the place of paypal , the problem is there are so many to choose from .
I like pecunix for their security ( and the fact they are n't US based.. and use a market-maker approach , which helps to create competition in the exchange rates ) But what about others ?
how come we 're held hostage to paypal when other systems exist ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Paypal has a long history of doing this sort of thing to people.In addition to that, they have a history of requiring personal information from people (due in large part to US law)I believe it's time for an alternate, non-US based payment processor to take the place of paypal, the problem is there are so many to choose from.
I like pecunix for their security (and the fact they aren't US based.. and use a market-maker approach, which helps to create competition in the exchange rates)But what about others?
how come we're held hostage to paypal when other systems exist?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30876818</id>
	<title>Re:maybe I'm missing something but...</title>
	<author>Anubis350</author>
	<datestamp>1264326300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No money *none* of the time probably wouldnt be so bad.
<br>
<br>
I think you meant no money *any* of the time<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-p</htmltext>
<tokenext>No money * none * of the time probably wouldnt be so bad .
I think you meant no money * any * of the time : -p</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No money *none* of the time probably wouldnt be so bad.
I think you meant no money *any* of the time :-p</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873040</id>
	<title>Re:maybe I'm missing something but...</title>
	<author>dissy</author>
	<datestamp>1264245120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once, and you "struggled for more than half a year" to resolve it, why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?</p></div><p>Probably because a little bit of money most or even some of the time, is a whole lot better than no money none of the time.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once , and you " struggled for more than half a year " to resolve it , why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal ? Probably because a little bit of money most or even some of the time , is a whole lot better than no money none of the time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once, and you "struggled for more than half a year" to resolve it, why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?Probably because a little bit of money most or even some of the time, is a whole lot better than no money none of the time.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873086</id>
	<title>Don't use PayPal</title>
	<author>v(*\_*)vvvv</author>
	<datestamp>1264245600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is really the fault of the person who decided to keep their assets in a PayPal account. And this isn't the first time? Well, they just don't learn do they.</p><p>PayPal can freeze accounts for any number of reasons, of which very few have to do with the owner of the account. If someone pays you with a stolen card or from an account that is suspected to have been compromised, that can trigger a freeze. Their support is notoriously bad, and their instructions for re-enabling your account are always overcomplicated.</p><p>Let this be a lesson to anyone who receives money with PayPal.</p><p>Money received =&gt; withdraw immediately</p><p><b>NEVER HOLD A PAYPAL BALANCE.</b></p><p>Always be ready to redirect payments to a backup account.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is really the fault of the person who decided to keep their assets in a PayPal account .
And this is n't the first time ?
Well , they just do n't learn do they.PayPal can freeze accounts for any number of reasons , of which very few have to do with the owner of the account .
If someone pays you with a stolen card or from an account that is suspected to have been compromised , that can trigger a freeze .
Their support is notoriously bad , and their instructions for re-enabling your account are always overcomplicated.Let this be a lesson to anyone who receives money with PayPal.Money received = &gt; withdraw immediatelyNEVER HOLD A PAYPAL BALANCE.Always be ready to redirect payments to a backup account .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is really the fault of the person who decided to keep their assets in a PayPal account.
And this isn't the first time?
Well, they just don't learn do they.PayPal can freeze accounts for any number of reasons, of which very few have to do with the owner of the account.
If someone pays you with a stolen card or from an account that is suspected to have been compromised, that can trigger a freeze.
Their support is notoriously bad, and their instructions for re-enabling your account are always overcomplicated.Let this be a lesson to anyone who receives money with PayPal.Money received =&gt; withdraw immediatelyNEVER HOLD A PAYPAL BALANCE.Always be ready to redirect payments to a backup account.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873378</id>
	<title>Re:bunch of whiners</title>
	<author>houstonbofh</author>
	<datestamp>1264247460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>it's not like there is no alternative to pay pal. Just use something else.</p></div><p>For example?</p></div><p>Here is a list...<br>
<a href="http://www.screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives.html" title="screw-paypal.com">http://www.screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives.html</a> [screw-paypal.com] <br>
<br>
Here is a list...<br>
<a href="http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fsb/0802/gallery.paypal\_alternatives.fsb/index.html" title="cnn.com">http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fsb/0802/gallery.paypal\_alternatives.fsb/index.html</a> [cnn.com] <br>
<br>
And some more sites...<br>
<a href="http://www.paypalsucks.com/" title="paypalsucks.com">http://www.paypalsucks.com/</a> [paypalsucks.com] <br>
<a href="http://www.paypalwarning.com/" title="paypalwarning.com">http://www.paypalwarning.com/</a> [paypalwarning.com] <br>
<br>
I mean, did you even look at all?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's not like there is no alternative to pay pal .
Just use something else.For example ? Here is a list.. . http : //www.screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives.html [ screw-paypal.com ] Here is a list.. . http : //money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fsb/0802/gallery.paypal \ _alternatives.fsb/index.html [ cnn.com ] And some more sites.. . http : //www.paypalsucks.com/ [ paypalsucks.com ] http : //www.paypalwarning.com/ [ paypalwarning.com ] I mean , did you even look at all ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's not like there is no alternative to pay pal.
Just use something else.For example?Here is a list...
http://www.screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives.html [screw-paypal.com] 

Here is a list...
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fsb/0802/gallery.paypal\_alternatives.fsb/index.html [cnn.com] 

And some more sites...
http://www.paypalsucks.com/ [paypalsucks.com] 
http://www.paypalwarning.com/ [paypalwarning.com] 

I mean, did you even look at all?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873120</id>
	<title>Re:pecunix among others?</title>
	<author>thestudio\_bob</author>
	<datestamp>1264245840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <em>I believe it's time for an alternate, non-US based payment processor to take the place of paypal</em> </p><p>I agree, I have a very rich uncle in Nigeria that has a large sum of money and we need a bank account to get this up and running. If you don't mind posting you full name, DOB, SSN and bank account info then we will get started right away.</p><p>We'll gladly pay you $40,000,000US for the inconvenience and helping us out!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe it 's time for an alternate , non-US based payment processor to take the place of paypal I agree , I have a very rich uncle in Nigeria that has a large sum of money and we need a bank account to get this up and running .
If you do n't mind posting you full name , DOB , SSN and bank account info then we will get started right away.We 'll gladly pay you $ 40,000,000US for the inconvenience and helping us out !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I believe it's time for an alternate, non-US based payment processor to take the place of paypal I agree, I have a very rich uncle in Nigeria that has a large sum of money and we need a bank account to get this up and running.
If you don't mind posting you full name, DOB, SSN and bank account info then we will get started right away.We'll gladly pay you $40,000,000US for the inconvenience and helping us out!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872856</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30878454</id>
	<title>Now that the corporations run the country</title>
	<author>Jawn98685</author>
	<datestamp>1264350540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...as enabled the recent SCOTUS decision, "free speech" is now whatever doesn't offend this or that corporation which has a stranglehold on you some piece of your life, or your business. It could be your bank, your internet service provider, your employer, whatever. If they don't like what you have to day, no Constitutional protection will save you.<br>
Ironic, ain't it? That the drooling ditto-heads think that giving an alarming amount of power to corporate interests, which are quite often at odds with the interests of the citizenry, is somehow a victory for free speech. What you have seen PayPal do here is just the bow-wave of what's coming, my friends.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...as enabled the recent SCOTUS decision , " free speech " is now whatever does n't offend this or that corporation which has a stranglehold on you some piece of your life , or your business .
It could be your bank , your internet service provider , your employer , whatever .
If they do n't like what you have to day , no Constitutional protection will save you .
Ironic , ai n't it ?
That the drooling ditto-heads think that giving an alarming amount of power to corporate interests , which are quite often at odds with the interests of the citizenry , is somehow a victory for free speech .
What you have seen PayPal do here is just the bow-wave of what 's coming , my friends .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...as enabled the recent SCOTUS decision, "free speech" is now whatever doesn't offend this or that corporation which has a stranglehold on you some piece of your life, or your business.
It could be your bank, your internet service provider, your employer, whatever.
If they don't like what you have to day, no Constitutional protection will save you.
Ironic, ain't it?
That the drooling ditto-heads think that giving an alarming amount of power to corporate interests, which are quite often at odds with the interests of the citizenry, is somehow a victory for free speech.
What you have seen PayPal do here is just the bow-wave of what's coming, my friends.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30879724</id>
	<title>alternatives for buyers</title>
	<author>astrocreap</author>
	<datestamp>1264358340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>what are alternatives for buyers using paypal? or is the solution give your CC information out to every website that you want to buy something from?</htmltext>
<tokenext>what are alternatives for buyers using paypal ?
or is the solution give your CC information out to every website that you want to buy something from ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what are alternatives for buyers using paypal?
or is the solution give your CC information out to every website that you want to buy something from?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874538</id>
	<title>I contacted paypal</title>
	<author>AlgorithMan</author>
	<datestamp>1264257660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wrote them an E-Mail:<blockquote><div><p>I just want to express my disdain for your freezing of wikileaks' assets.
In our times wikileaks is an important tool of democracy.<br> <br>

If wikileaks (thanks to you) ceases to exist, politicians can finally cash
in bribes again to their heart's content, without fear of being exposed.
Congratulations! I hope you are proud to be henchmen of censorship!</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
It may not be much, but I couldn't bear to keep my contempt to myself.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wrote them an E-Mail : I just want to express my disdain for your freezing of wikileaks ' assets .
In our times wikileaks is an important tool of democracy .
If wikileaks ( thanks to you ) ceases to exist , politicians can finally cash in bribes again to their heart 's content , without fear of being exposed .
Congratulations ! I hope you are proud to be henchmen of censorship !
It may not be much , but I could n't bear to keep my contempt to myself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wrote them an E-Mail:I just want to express my disdain for your freezing of wikileaks' assets.
In our times wikileaks is an important tool of democracy.
If wikileaks (thanks to you) ceases to exist, politicians can finally cash
in bribes again to their heart's content, without fear of being exposed.
Congratulations! I hope you are proud to be henchmen of censorship!
It may not be much, but I couldn't bear to keep my contempt to myself.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873610</id>
	<title>Why do they keep significant assets there anyhow?</title>
	<author>vanyel</author>
	<datestamp>1264249380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...<i>especially</i> if they've had the problem before!  Although I've been using Paypal for over 15 years with no problems at all, I still don't let the balance there get too high for exactly this reason.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...especially if they 've had the problem before !
Although I 've been using Paypal for over 15 years with no problems at all , I still do n't let the balance there get too high for exactly this reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...especially if they've had the problem before!
Although I've been using Paypal for over 15 years with no problems at all, I still don't let the balance there get too high for exactly this reason.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873492</id>
	<title>Cash contributions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264248360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From http://wikileaks.org/ :</p><p>
&nbsp; Cash or cheques<br>You can support us by posting cash, cheques or international money grams to one of the following addresses:</p><p>All countries</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; WikiLeaks ICT<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; BOX 4080, University of Melbourne<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Victoria 3052, Australia</p><p>USD, EUR, AUD preferred. International cheques are best over $800 to avoid fees. If sending cash, please place it in a non-transparent envelope or a CD case for maximum security.</p><p>Kenya</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; WikiLeaks ICT<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; PO Box 8098-00200<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Nairobi<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Kenya</p><p>Other addresses are available on request from wl-supporters@sunshinepress.org</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From http : //wikileaks.org/ :   Cash or chequesYou can support us by posting cash , cheques or international money grams to one of the following addresses : All countries         WikiLeaks ICT         BOX 4080 , University of Melbourne         Victoria 3052 , AustraliaUSD , EUR , AUD preferred .
International cheques are best over $ 800 to avoid fees .
If sending cash , please place it in a non-transparent envelope or a CD case for maximum security.Kenya         WikiLeaks ICT         PO Box 8098-00200         Nairobi         KenyaOther addresses are available on request from wl-supporters @ sunshinepress.org</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From http://wikileaks.org/ :
  Cash or chequesYou can support us by posting cash, cheques or international money grams to one of the following addresses:All countries
        WikiLeaks ICT
        BOX 4080, University of Melbourne
        Victoria 3052, AustraliaUSD, EUR, AUD preferred.
International cheques are best over $800 to avoid fees.
If sending cash, please place it in a non-transparent envelope or a CD case for maximum security.Kenya
        WikiLeaks ICT
        PO Box 8098-00200
        Nairobi
        KenyaOther addresses are available on request from wl-supporters@sunshinepress.org</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30884510</id>
	<title>Re:This is just dumb dumb dumb.</title>
	<author>new2\_60605</author>
	<datestamp>1264343160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Merchant accounts are IMPOSSIBLE to get these days even for NEW legitimate businesses. Emerging companies have to goto paypal and google checkout (more secure for same price) to be able to conduct business. If these companies can unilaterally decide to freeze assets it hurts their legitimacy and is counter to their fiduciary duty to their share holders. It was because of stunts like this that the company I worked for decided long ago to switch to Chase Quick Pay and Google Checkout because PayPal can not be trusted and the only money they keep safe is their own. When PayPal first opened they were a legitimate escrow service now they are  a sham organization trying to shave points on all electronic transactions going through their house.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Merchant accounts are IMPOSSIBLE to get these days even for NEW legitimate businesses .
Emerging companies have to goto paypal and google checkout ( more secure for same price ) to be able to conduct business .
If these companies can unilaterally decide to freeze assets it hurts their legitimacy and is counter to their fiduciary duty to their share holders .
It was because of stunts like this that the company I worked for decided long ago to switch to Chase Quick Pay and Google Checkout because PayPal can not be trusted and the only money they keep safe is their own .
When PayPal first opened they were a legitimate escrow service now they are a sham organization trying to shave points on all electronic transactions going through their house .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Merchant accounts are IMPOSSIBLE to get these days even for NEW legitimate businesses.
Emerging companies have to goto paypal and google checkout (more secure for same price) to be able to conduct business.
If these companies can unilaterally decide to freeze assets it hurts their legitimacy and is counter to their fiduciary duty to their share holders.
It was because of stunts like this that the company I worked for decided long ago to switch to Chase Quick Pay and Google Checkout because PayPal can not be trusted and the only money they keep safe is their own.
When PayPal first opened they were a legitimate escrow service now they are  a sham organization trying to shave points on all electronic transactions going through their house.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873854</id>
	<title>I contacted Wikileaks</title>
	<author>Arancaytar</author>
	<datestamp>1264251300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's their response to my question:</p><blockquote><div><p>Hi,</p><p>we are sure that we will get to the money at some point in time. Direct banking transfers generally are much better for us, as that prevents this issue from happening. If you can reverse it, and want to transfer directly, its fine by us. But cant say how much of a hassel that is.</p><p>Thanks for the support and the solidarity!</p><p>WikiLeaks</p><p>On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 11:46:47PM +0000, Arancaytar wrote:<br>&gt; &gt; Hello,<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; I donated to you via Wau-Holland (using Paypal) on Jan 19. Should I<br>&gt; &gt; attempt to reverse this payment in order to make a bank transfer<br>&gt; &gt; directly (and is there any chance of that working)?<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Regards,<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; --<br>&gt; &gt; Arancaytar</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's their response to my question : Hi,we are sure that we will get to the money at some point in time .
Direct banking transfers generally are much better for us , as that prevents this issue from happening .
If you can reverse it , and want to transfer directly , its fine by us .
But cant say how much of a hassel that is.Thanks for the support and the solidarity ! WikiLeaksOn Sat , Jan 23 , 2010 at 11 : 46 : 47PM + 0000 , Arancaytar wrote : &gt; &gt; Hello , &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I donated to you via Wau-Holland ( using Paypal ) on Jan 19 .
Should I &gt; &gt; attempt to reverse this payment in order to make a bank transfer &gt; &gt; directly ( and is there any chance of that working ) ? &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Regards , &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; -- &gt; &gt; Arancaytar</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's their response to my question:Hi,we are sure that we will get to the money at some point in time.
Direct banking transfers generally are much better for us, as that prevents this issue from happening.
If you can reverse it, and want to transfer directly, its fine by us.
But cant say how much of a hassel that is.Thanks for the support and the solidarity!WikiLeaksOn Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 11:46:47PM +0000, Arancaytar wrote:&gt; &gt; Hello,&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; I donated to you via Wau-Holland (using Paypal) on Jan 19.
Should I&gt; &gt; attempt to reverse this payment in order to make a bank transfer&gt; &gt; directly (and is there any chance of that working)?&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Regards,&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; --&gt; &gt; Arancaytar
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872906</id>
	<title>Re:More info, please</title>
	<author>LoverOfJoy</author>
	<datestamp>1264244280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't have the answer to your question, but <a href="https://p10.secure.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org.uk/ssl/wikileak/2010/01/paypal-suspends-donations-to-wikileaksorg-who-then-web-bug-their-own-website.html" title="hostingprod.com">this site</a> [hostingprod.com] suggests their problems may be from not jumping through proper hoops to prove it is a non-profit.<blockquote><div><p>PayPal usually suspends non-profit organisations, because PayPal have to comply with local taxation laws involving the tax exempt status of such organisations, and with the world wide anti-money laundering red tape and bureaucracy.
<br> <br>
You end up having to send them details of your charitable status, or, failing that, proof that you have a bank account in the name of your group etc.</p></div></blockquote><p>

The site also describes how wikileaks is "deep linking" a graphic on their site that may cause problems with keeping anonymity, though I can't see how that is related to the suspension.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't have the answer to your question , but this site [ hostingprod.com ] suggests their problems may be from not jumping through proper hoops to prove it is a non-profit.PayPal usually suspends non-profit organisations , because PayPal have to comply with local taxation laws involving the tax exempt status of such organisations , and with the world wide anti-money laundering red tape and bureaucracy .
You end up having to send them details of your charitable status , or , failing that , proof that you have a bank account in the name of your group etc .
The site also describes how wikileaks is " deep linking " a graphic on their site that may cause problems with keeping anonymity , though I ca n't see how that is related to the suspension .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't have the answer to your question, but this site [hostingprod.com] suggests their problems may be from not jumping through proper hoops to prove it is a non-profit.PayPal usually suspends non-profit organisations, because PayPal have to comply with local taxation laws involving the tax exempt status of such organisations, and with the world wide anti-money laundering red tape and bureaucracy.
You end up having to send them details of your charitable status, or, failing that, proof that you have a bank account in the name of your group etc.
The site also describes how wikileaks is "deep linking" a graphic on their site that may cause problems with keeping anonymity, though I can't see how that is related to the suspension.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872830</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30879494</id>
	<title>Re:Crooks get assets frozen, news at 11</title>
	<author>hkick</author>
	<datestamp>1264356960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree - somehow even i had this information, but look at them, they are trying to prove paypal is a crook. Leaks is good but certainly not something that endangers people. If its not that site people can use other sites to leak information. Either clean up your act or have your account frozen, obviously wikileaks is being funded by terrorists.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree - somehow even i had this information , but look at them , they are trying to prove paypal is a crook .
Leaks is good but certainly not something that endangers people .
If its not that site people can use other sites to leak information .
Either clean up your act or have your account frozen , obviously wikileaks is being funded by terrorists .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree - somehow even i had this information, but look at them, they are trying to prove paypal is a crook.
Leaks is good but certainly not something that endangers people.
If its not that site people can use other sites to leak information.
Either clean up your act or have your account frozen, obviously wikileaks is being funded by terrorists.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872854</id>
	<title>bunch of whiners</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264243800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>it's not like there is no alternative to pay pal. Just use something else.</htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's not like there is no alternative to pay pal .
Just use something else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's not like there is no alternative to pay pal.
Just use something else.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874930</id>
	<title>A friend of the devil is a friend of mine</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264261440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://windows7.digitalriver.com/store/mswpus/en\_US/DisplayHomePage?resid=Sz0R7QoBAiMAAFSTQGQAAAAx&amp;rests=1264300968472</p><p>Even microsoft doesn't trust paypal with their money, and they wipe their ass with millions in dead-end projects.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //windows7.digitalriver.com/store/mswpus/en \ _US/DisplayHomePage ? resid = Sz0R7QoBAiMAAFSTQGQAAAAx&amp;rests = 1264300968472Even microsoft does n't trust paypal with their money , and they wipe their ass with millions in dead-end projects .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://windows7.digitalriver.com/store/mswpus/en\_US/DisplayHomePage?resid=Sz0R7QoBAiMAAFSTQGQAAAAx&amp;rests=1264300968472Even microsoft doesn't trust paypal with their money, and they wipe their ass with millions in dead-end projects.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874186</id>
	<title>Dude.. What's wrong with pornographers?</title>
	<author>zippthorne</author>
	<datestamp>1264254480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even if you had been a pornographer, it'd still have been wrong of them to just freeze  your account.  Pornography is a legitimate business in the United States.</p><p>On a more serious note, not to diminish the gravity of your classism, why the F are they taking your SSN?  They're not employing you, or paying into the social security system on your behalf so they shouldn't need that number.  Too many people get away with taking that number and correlating it to things which only serves to make it too precious to ever mention.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even if you had been a pornographer , it 'd still have been wrong of them to just freeze your account .
Pornography is a legitimate business in the United States.On a more serious note , not to diminish the gravity of your classism , why the F are they taking your SSN ?
They 're not employing you , or paying into the social security system on your behalf so they should n't need that number .
Too many people get away with taking that number and correlating it to things which only serves to make it too precious to ever mention .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even if you had been a pornographer, it'd still have been wrong of them to just freeze  your account.
Pornography is a legitimate business in the United States.On a more serious note, not to diminish the gravity of your classism, why the F are they taking your SSN?
They're not employing you, or paying into the social security system on your behalf so they shouldn't need that number.
Too many people get away with taking that number and correlating it to things which only serves to make it too precious to ever mention.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872826</id>
	<title>Please don't use paypal</title>
	<author>Weezul</author>
	<datestamp>1264243620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Paypal is just a horrendous disaster area.  Just please DO NOT use paypal, either as merchant, or as purchaser.  If a service only supports payments by paypal, just tell them that your sorry but you will not buy their service.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Paypal is just a horrendous disaster area .
Just please DO NOT use paypal , either as merchant , or as purchaser .
If a service only supports payments by paypal , just tell them that your sorry but you will not buy their service .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Paypal is just a horrendous disaster area.
Just please DO NOT use paypal, either as merchant, or as purchaser.
If a service only supports payments by paypal, just tell them that your sorry but you will not buy their service.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873376</id>
	<title>Re:PayPal Regulation?</title>
	<author>Arancaytar</author>
	<datestamp>1264247460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It already is a bank - at least in Europe.</p><p>This doesn't seem to help.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It already is a bank - at least in Europe.This does n't seem to help .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It already is a bank - at least in Europe.This doesn't seem to help.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872814</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874356</id>
	<title>Re:Don't use PayPal</title>
	<author>TooMuchToDo</author>
	<datestamp>1264255920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Very very true. Our business sweeps the cash out of Paypal into our online merchant bank account *nightly*, and we sweep *that* account into another count nightly as well. Paypal is a necessary evil, but there are ways to protect yourself (we actually discount our service if people switch from paying with Paypal to credit card upon paying our invoices).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Very very true .
Our business sweeps the cash out of Paypal into our online merchant bank account * nightly * , and we sweep * that * account into another count nightly as well .
Paypal is a necessary evil , but there are ways to protect yourself ( we actually discount our service if people switch from paying with Paypal to credit card upon paying our invoices ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Very very true.
Our business sweeps the cash out of Paypal into our online merchant bank account *nightly*, and we sweep *that* account into another count nightly as well.
Paypal is a necessary evil, but there are ways to protect yourself (we actually discount our service if people switch from paying with Paypal to credit card upon paying our invoices).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872830</id>
	<title>More info, please</title>
	<author>Dorsai65</author>
	<datestamp>1264243680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why is PayPal freezing the account? What happened the first time, and what agreement was reached to thaw the account?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is PayPal freezing the account ?
What happened the first time , and what agreement was reached to thaw the account ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is PayPal freezing the account?
What happened the first time, and what agreement was reached to thaw the account?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30875138</id>
	<title>Fuck Paybay</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264263180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I donated $50 to wikileaks via PayPal - so this really infuriates me;<br>I have sent Paypal and email demanded thay refund my transaction or I will chargeback - So I can re-donate the money to WL without interferance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I donated $ 50 to wikileaks via PayPal - so this really infuriates me ; I have sent Paypal and email demanded thay refund my transaction or I will chargeback - So I can re-donate the money to WL without interferance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I donated $50 to wikileaks via PayPal - so this really infuriates me;I have sent Paypal and email demanded thay refund my transaction or I will chargeback - So I can re-donate the money to WL without interferance.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872848</id>
	<title>Probably some low level drone who didn't know</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264243740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I doubt this is political.  Paypal is notorious for freezing accounts based on some internal drone's mistake or a some programmed tripwire.  There are countless horror stories about this: http://www.paypalwarning.com/  http://www.paypalsucks.com/frozen-accounts.shtml    When you outsource all your employees and pay them 5 cents an hour or whatever slave wage they pay foreign workers, you get what you pay for.</p><p>If it is political, then Paypal, as an organization is of unfathomable stupidity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I doubt this is political .
Paypal is notorious for freezing accounts based on some internal drone 's mistake or a some programmed tripwire .
There are countless horror stories about this : http : //www.paypalwarning.com/ http : //www.paypalsucks.com/frozen-accounts.shtml When you outsource all your employees and pay them 5 cents an hour or whatever slave wage they pay foreign workers , you get what you pay for.If it is political , then Paypal , as an organization is of unfathomable stupidity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I doubt this is political.
Paypal is notorious for freezing accounts based on some internal drone's mistake or a some programmed tripwire.
There are countless horror stories about this: http://www.paypalwarning.com/  http://www.paypalsucks.com/frozen-accounts.shtml    When you outsource all your employees and pay them 5 cents an hour or whatever slave wage they pay foreign workers, you get what you pay for.If it is political, then Paypal, as an organization is of unfathomable stupidity.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872938</id>
	<title>Re:bunch of whiners</title>
	<author>Dana Larsen</author>
	<datestamp>1264244460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sure we can "just use something else" than Paypal when they block people for political reasons, and we can stop using Facebook when they ban accounts for the same lame reasons, and we could find a different search engine if Google starts blocking political sites, and we could build our own Internet if the USA started trying to block political websites like China does...
<p>
Paypal also often does this kind of thing to members of the <a href="http://pr.cannazine.co.uk/20080324201/cannabis-news/marijuana-law-paypal-cannabis-hypocrisy-continues-unabated.html" title="cannazine.co.uk" rel="nofollow">cannabis community.</a> [cannazine.co.uk]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure we can " just use something else " than Paypal when they block people for political reasons , and we can stop using Facebook when they ban accounts for the same lame reasons , and we could find a different search engine if Google starts blocking political sites , and we could build our own Internet if the USA started trying to block political websites like China does.. . Paypal also often does this kind of thing to members of the cannabis community .
[ cannazine.co.uk ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure we can "just use something else" than Paypal when they block people for political reasons, and we can stop using Facebook when they ban accounts for the same lame reasons, and we could find a different search engine if Google starts blocking political sites, and we could build our own Internet if the USA started trying to block political websites like China does...

Paypal also often does this kind of thing to members of the cannabis community.
[cannazine.co.uk]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30876402</id>
	<title>PayPal has been at it for years!</title>
	<author>xx01</author>
	<datestamp>1264276680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is a reason why sites like <a href="http://www.screw-paypal.com/" title="screw-paypal.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.screw-paypal.com/</a> [screw-paypal.com] exists. The fact is, it is part of PayPal's business model to freeze and limit accounts for seemingly no reason in order to make money off the float and off the interest. Just read PayPal's updated Terms of Service Agreement! Right at the top they tell you they have a right to freeze and limit your account anytime they want -- before, they never wrote that.

Screw-PayPal.com also has large sections with PayPal alternatives. I found them here:

<a href="http://screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives.html" title="screw-paypal.com" rel="nofollow">http://screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives.html</a> [screw-paypal.com]

<a href="http://screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives\_general\_recommended.html" title="screw-paypal.com" rel="nofollow">http://screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives\_general\_recommended.html</a> [screw-paypal.com]

Guess these alternatives are divided into what you can use with eBay and what you can use for everything else you may want to do.

Fact is PayPal has been freezing funds arbitrarily for years. People have businesses going and then wake up one day only to find PayPal has taken their money. People loose business and their income because they beleived PayPal's promise that they were "safe".</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is a reason why sites like http : //www.screw-paypal.com/ [ screw-paypal.com ] exists .
The fact is , it is part of PayPal 's business model to freeze and limit accounts for seemingly no reason in order to make money off the float and off the interest .
Just read PayPal 's updated Terms of Service Agreement !
Right at the top they tell you they have a right to freeze and limit your account anytime they want -- before , they never wrote that .
Screw-PayPal.com also has large sections with PayPal alternatives .
I found them here : http : //screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives.html [ screw-paypal.com ] http : //screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives \ _general \ _recommended.html [ screw-paypal.com ] Guess these alternatives are divided into what you can use with eBay and what you can use for everything else you may want to do .
Fact is PayPal has been freezing funds arbitrarily for years .
People have businesses going and then wake up one day only to find PayPal has taken their money .
People loose business and their income because they beleived PayPal 's promise that they were " safe " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is a reason why sites like http://www.screw-paypal.com/ [screw-paypal.com] exists.
The fact is, it is part of PayPal's business model to freeze and limit accounts for seemingly no reason in order to make money off the float and off the interest.
Just read PayPal's updated Terms of Service Agreement!
Right at the top they tell you they have a right to freeze and limit your account anytime they want -- before, they never wrote that.
Screw-PayPal.com also has large sections with PayPal alternatives.
I found them here:

http://screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives.html [screw-paypal.com]

http://screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives\_general\_recommended.html [screw-paypal.com]

Guess these alternatives are divided into what you can use with eBay and what you can use for everything else you may want to do.
Fact is PayPal has been freezing funds arbitrarily for years.
People have businesses going and then wake up one day only to find PayPal has taken their money.
People loose business and their income because they beleived PayPal's promise that they were "safe".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30885212</id>
	<title>Re:maybe I'm missing something but...</title>
	<author>rrohbeck</author>
	<datestamp>1264347780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"No money none of the time" doesn't sound bad to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" No money none of the time " does n't sound bad to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"No money none of the time" doesn't sound bad to me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873040</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30879450</id>
	<title>Stop this !</title>
	<author>hkick</author>
	<datestamp>1264356600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Remember wikileaks has not indicated why its account was frozen. I am sure if they were trying to resolve for the past 6 months, they would have lot of case information, why not make it availble for people. Just if you have<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.org infront of you , that doesnt qualify for being god.
Also for all those against paypal - Do you know why wikileaks account was frozen ? If not i would say nobody is asking your stories, we are trying to resolve a problem, not add historical information on how bad paypal is - thats not helping in resolving the issue, unless you are being paid by google or amazon to do this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Remember wikileaks has not indicated why its account was frozen .
I am sure if they were trying to resolve for the past 6 months , they would have lot of case information , why not make it availble for people .
Just if you have .org infront of you , that doesnt qualify for being god .
Also for all those against paypal - Do you know why wikileaks account was frozen ?
If not i would say nobody is asking your stories , we are trying to resolve a problem , not add historical information on how bad paypal is - thats not helping in resolving the issue , unless you are being paid by google or amazon to do this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remember wikileaks has not indicated why its account was frozen.
I am sure if they were trying to resolve for the past 6 months, they would have lot of case information, why not make it availble for people.
Just if you have .org infront of you , that doesnt qualify for being god.
Also for all those against paypal - Do you know why wikileaks account was frozen ?
If not i would say nobody is asking your stories, we are trying to resolve a problem, not add historical information on how bad paypal is - thats not helping in resolving the issue, unless you are being paid by google or amazon to do this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873632</id>
	<title>Just why is there funds being held?</title>
	<author>Stan92057</author>
	<datestamp>1264249500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just why is there funds being held? And why cant wikileaks sue the crap out of paypal the for holding there money for no good reason? And isnt this the biggest reason to read the fine print/hire a Lawyer, for companys like paypal/any company holding our money? Thats no small sum of money being held.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just why is there funds being held ?
And why cant wikileaks sue the crap out of paypal the for holding there money for no good reason ?
And isnt this the biggest reason to read the fine print/hire a Lawyer , for companys like paypal/any company holding our money ?
Thats no small sum of money being held .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just why is there funds being held?
And why cant wikileaks sue the crap out of paypal the for holding there money for no good reason?
And isnt this the biggest reason to read the fine print/hire a Lawyer, for companys like paypal/any company holding our money?
Thats no small sum of money being held.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872960</id>
	<title>Oh noes!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264244580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What ever will wikileaks.org do without the excellent customer service, transparent and fair practices, and fantastic service charges provided by Paypal? Guess I'm not donating to them anymore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What ever will wikileaks.org do without the excellent customer service , transparent and fair practices , and fantastic service charges provided by Paypal ?
Guess I 'm not donating to them anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What ever will wikileaks.org do without the excellent customer service, transparent and fair practices, and fantastic service charges provided by Paypal?
Guess I'm not donating to them anymore.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872928</id>
	<title>Wikileaks is webbugged!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264244400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It seems that there is a image from "alainfishing" on wikileaks main page. Read this interesting article about this:</p><p>https://p10.secure.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org.uk/ssl/wikileak/2010/01/paypal-suspends-donations-to-wikileaksorg-who-then-web-bug-their-own-website.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems that there is a image from " alainfishing " on wikileaks main page .
Read this interesting article about this : https : //p10.secure.hostingprod.com/ @ spyblog.org.uk/ssl/wikileak/2010/01/paypal-suspends-donations-to-wikileaksorg-who-then-web-bug-their-own-website.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems that there is a image from "alainfishing" on wikileaks main page.
Read this interesting article about this:https://p10.secure.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org.uk/ssl/wikileak/2010/01/paypal-suspends-donations-to-wikileaksorg-who-then-web-bug-their-own-website.html</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873190</id>
	<title>Re:maybe I'm missing something but...</title>
	<author>interkin3tic</author>
	<datestamp>1264246380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?</p></div><p>In addition to the convinience issue others brought up, probably because they thought they had cleared up whatever problem there was the first time and because they were taking the extra step of directing it to Wau Holland Stiftung.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal ? In addition to the convinience issue others brought up , probably because they thought they had cleared up whatever problem there was the first time and because they were taking the extra step of directing it to Wau Holland Stiftung .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?In addition to the convinience issue others brought up, probably because they thought they had cleared up whatever problem there was the first time and because they were taking the extra step of directing it to Wau Holland Stiftung.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873280</id>
	<title>Re:bunch of whiners</title>
	<author>mauriceh</author>
	<datestamp>1264246980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK, " stolen" from another post, but this way YOU get the answer to your question:</p><p><a href="http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fsb/0802/gallery.paypal\_alternatives.fsb/" title="cnn.com">http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fsb/0802/gallery.paypal\_alternatives.fsb/</a> [cnn.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK , " stolen " from another post , but this way YOU get the answer to your question : http : //money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fsb/0802/gallery.paypal \ _alternatives.fsb/ [ cnn.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK, " stolen" from another post, but this way YOU get the answer to your question:http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fsb/0802/gallery.paypal\_alternatives.fsb/ [cnn.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872954</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872886</id>
	<title>Re:maybe I'm missing something but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264244160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once, and you "struggled for more than half a year" to resolve it, why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?</p></div><p>My sentiments exactly! "Get burned once, shame on you. Get burned twice, shame on me."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once , and you " struggled for more than half a year " to resolve it , why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal ? My sentiments exactly !
" Get burned once , shame on you .
Get burned twice , shame on me .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once, and you "struggled for more than half a year" to resolve it, why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?My sentiments exactly!
"Get burned once, shame on you.
Get burned twice, shame on me.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30884390</id>
	<title>Re:My personal PayPal horror story</title>
	<author>harryjohnston</author>
	<datestamp>1264342140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Moving to a merchant account won't necessarily stop this sort of problem.  My wife had a similar experience with American Express.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Moving to a merchant account wo n't necessarily stop this sort of problem .
My wife had a similar experience with American Express .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Moving to a merchant account won't necessarily stop this sort of problem.
My wife had a similar experience with American Express.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874670</id>
	<title>Re:Don't use PayPal</title>
	<author>DaveGod</author>
	<datestamp>1264259400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>This is really the fault of the person who decided to keep their assets in a PayPal account. And this isn't the first time? Well, they just don't learn do they.</p></div></blockquote><p>I'd assumed there was the usual fail in the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. summary, but the wikileaks page does indeed say "frozen WikiLeaks assets". I still suspect this is a mistake with the wording however - taken literally it could only mean Paypal has appointed an administrator and taken over all the assets (presumably Wikileaks has at least a computer as a physical asset), which seems unlikely. All that's been frozen is the Paypal account.</p><p>This leaves a question unanswered as to whether there was a lot of money in there at the time. Perhaps Wikileaks were very stupid, or had some specific reason (e.g. they make a lot of Paypal payments and this minimises fees, or they fear regular banks even more).

</p><p> <i>Or</i> perhaps they had little money in the account but they had to shut down expensive operations in order that they could maximise the duration that their available banked funds will keep them on life-support, since little more will be coming in. An sensible course of action given the only obvious alternative. This theory appears to be supported by the first line on their website:</p><blockquote><div><p>To concentrate on raising the funds necessary to keep us alive into 2010, we have reluctantly suspended all other operations</p></div></blockquote><p>A lot of posters have questioned Wikileaks' use of Paypal. That's the wrong question - you should be asking why lots of people use Paypal. Wikileaks needs donations from people. They need to be as convenient as possible for as many people as possible to make donations. LOTS of people won't make a donation if they have to make an account with some other provider for that sole purpose. They detail numerous other (still available) methods of making a donation, but I bet at least 90\% comes through Paypal. </p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is really the fault of the person who decided to keep their assets in a PayPal account .
And this is n't the first time ?
Well , they just do n't learn do they.I 'd assumed there was the usual fail in the / .
summary , but the wikileaks page does indeed say " frozen WikiLeaks assets " .
I still suspect this is a mistake with the wording however - taken literally it could only mean Paypal has appointed an administrator and taken over all the assets ( presumably Wikileaks has at least a computer as a physical asset ) , which seems unlikely .
All that 's been frozen is the Paypal account.This leaves a question unanswered as to whether there was a lot of money in there at the time .
Perhaps Wikileaks were very stupid , or had some specific reason ( e.g .
they make a lot of Paypal payments and this minimises fees , or they fear regular banks even more ) .
Or perhaps they had little money in the account but they had to shut down expensive operations in order that they could maximise the duration that their available banked funds will keep them on life-support , since little more will be coming in .
An sensible course of action given the only obvious alternative .
This theory appears to be supported by the first line on their website : To concentrate on raising the funds necessary to keep us alive into 2010 , we have reluctantly suspended all other operationsA lot of posters have questioned Wikileaks ' use of Paypal .
That 's the wrong question - you should be asking why lots of people use Paypal .
Wikileaks needs donations from people .
They need to be as convenient as possible for as many people as possible to make donations .
LOTS of people wo n't make a donation if they have to make an account with some other provider for that sole purpose .
They detail numerous other ( still available ) methods of making a donation , but I bet at least 90 \ % comes through Paypal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is really the fault of the person who decided to keep their assets in a PayPal account.
And this isn't the first time?
Well, they just don't learn do they.I'd assumed there was the usual fail in the /.
summary, but the wikileaks page does indeed say "frozen WikiLeaks assets".
I still suspect this is a mistake with the wording however - taken literally it could only mean Paypal has appointed an administrator and taken over all the assets (presumably Wikileaks has at least a computer as a physical asset), which seems unlikely.
All that's been frozen is the Paypal account.This leaves a question unanswered as to whether there was a lot of money in there at the time.
Perhaps Wikileaks were very stupid, or had some specific reason (e.g.
they make a lot of Paypal payments and this minimises fees, or they fear regular banks even more).
Or perhaps they had little money in the account but they had to shut down expensive operations in order that they could maximise the duration that their available banked funds will keep them on life-support, since little more will be coming in.
An sensible course of action given the only obvious alternative.
This theory appears to be supported by the first line on their website:To concentrate on raising the funds necessary to keep us alive into 2010, we have reluctantly suspended all other operationsA lot of posters have questioned Wikileaks' use of Paypal.
That's the wrong question - you should be asking why lots of people use Paypal.
Wikileaks needs donations from people.
They need to be as convenient as possible for as many people as possible to make donations.
LOTS of people won't make a donation if they have to make an account with some other provider for that sole purpose.
They detail numerous other (still available) methods of making a donation, but I bet at least 90\% comes through Paypal. 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872798</id>
	<title>Unsurprising</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264243440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>This has been going on for many years, with many different groups.  Until people stop using Paypal, or some sort of oversight or audit is performed, it will continue to happen.

Mayhap Wikileaks should try and dig up information on Paypal.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This has been going on for many years , with many different groups .
Until people stop using Paypal , or some sort of oversight or audit is performed , it will continue to happen .
Mayhap Wikileaks should try and dig up information on Paypal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has been going on for many years, with many different groups.
Until people stop using Paypal, or some sort of oversight or audit is performed, it will continue to happen.
Mayhap Wikileaks should try and dig up information on Paypal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873776</id>
	<title>Contact PayPal and Ebay</title>
	<author>omb</author>
	<datestamp>1264250640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>In Europe, at least, Ebay is a Swiss AG, headquartered in Bern, Switzerland<br><br>Helvetiastrasse 15, CH-3005 Bern, Switzerland, Telephone 00 41 31 359 06 59<br><br>and they are, of course, the Beneficial owners of PayPal.<br><br>both of which, used to be a Luxembourg SARL, Luxembourg allows bearer shares.<br><br>Under the Swiss-EU accords, judgements obtained under EU law, in member countries,<br>are enforcible in Switzerland and thus in Kanton Bern. You can assume they speak<br>EN DE FR IT, but if you want to give legal notice do it in one of the Swiss official<br>languages ie DE FR IT<br><br>Thus I suggest you write to the Geshaftsleiter (Ebay|PayPal) at the above address.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In Europe , at least , Ebay is a Swiss AG , headquartered in Bern , SwitzerlandHelvetiastrasse 15 , CH-3005 Bern , Switzerland , Telephone 00 41 31 359 06 59and they are , of course , the Beneficial owners of PayPal.both of which , used to be a Luxembourg SARL , Luxembourg allows bearer shares.Under the Swiss-EU accords , judgements obtained under EU law , in member countries,are enforcible in Switzerland and thus in Kanton Bern .
You can assume they speakEN DE FR IT , but if you want to give legal notice do it in one of the Swiss officiallanguages ie DE FR ITThus I suggest you write to the Geshaftsleiter ( Ebay | PayPal ) at the above address .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Europe, at least, Ebay is a Swiss AG, headquartered in Bern, SwitzerlandHelvetiastrasse 15, CH-3005 Bern, Switzerland, Telephone 00 41 31 359 06 59and they are, of course, the Beneficial owners of PayPal.both of which, used to be a Luxembourg SARL, Luxembourg allows bearer shares.Under the Swiss-EU accords, judgements obtained under EU law, in member countries,are enforcible in Switzerland and thus in Kanton Bern.
You can assume they speakEN DE FR IT, but if you want to give legal notice do it in one of the Swiss officiallanguages ie DE FR ITThus I suggest you write to the Geshaftsleiter (Ebay|PayPal) at the above address.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30876274</id>
	<title>Re:Probably some low level drone who didn't know</title>
	<author>flydpnkrtn</author>
	<datestamp>1264274760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree... the quote that goes something like 'never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence' sounds like it kinda fits here. Friends of mine have had their PayPal accounts locked for similar, kneejerk reasons</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree... the quote that goes something like 'never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence ' sounds like it kinda fits here .
Friends of mine have had their PayPal accounts locked for similar , kneejerk reasons</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree... the quote that goes something like 'never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence' sounds like it kinda fits here.
Friends of mine have had their PayPal accounts locked for similar, kneejerk reasons
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874966</id>
	<title>PayPal isn't quite that bad.</title>
	<author>hk117</author>
	<datestamp>1264261680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've used PayPal in a business capacity for several years now. It helps support me through my company (a sole-proprietorship IT consulting bit) by allowing me to process credit cards. Those things are quickly becoming a fact of life in business...<br> <br>

Anyway what I really mean to get at is that PayPal has treated me better than any of my banks have. When somebody pays me, the transaction takes no more than 5 minutes and then I have money on hand. I can either wire it over if I have a few days, or use their plug-in or my debit card to purchase things directly from my account. While they do not have anything really resembling customer service, they usually don't seem to need it, IMO. <br> <br>

I once had an eBay transaction that went sour. I got all huffy and upset that they reversed the charges. I quickly became an enemy of PayPal, screaming their injustices. What happened was that I had been selling some spare parts and one of them went outside the United States. The Canadian yokel that got them just decided to screw me and I hadn't really created a trail of accountability because I was unprepared for out of country transactions (no tracking, etc). PayPal was in the clear to reverse it because there was really no proof that I ever shipped it to him. That was my fault, but I've learned since then and that company has allowed me to eke a living for myself without having to bow down to the merchant services that involve monthly fees and other stupid crap. <br> <br>

Just felt like sharing that not every story with them is a bad one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've used PayPal in a business capacity for several years now .
It helps support me through my company ( a sole-proprietorship IT consulting bit ) by allowing me to process credit cards .
Those things are quickly becoming a fact of life in business.. . Anyway what I really mean to get at is that PayPal has treated me better than any of my banks have .
When somebody pays me , the transaction takes no more than 5 minutes and then I have money on hand .
I can either wire it over if I have a few days , or use their plug-in or my debit card to purchase things directly from my account .
While they do not have anything really resembling customer service , they usually do n't seem to need it , IMO .
I once had an eBay transaction that went sour .
I got all huffy and upset that they reversed the charges .
I quickly became an enemy of PayPal , screaming their injustices .
What happened was that I had been selling some spare parts and one of them went outside the United States .
The Canadian yokel that got them just decided to screw me and I had n't really created a trail of accountability because I was unprepared for out of country transactions ( no tracking , etc ) .
PayPal was in the clear to reverse it because there was really no proof that I ever shipped it to him .
That was my fault , but I 've learned since then and that company has allowed me to eke a living for myself without having to bow down to the merchant services that involve monthly fees and other stupid crap .
Just felt like sharing that not every story with them is a bad one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've used PayPal in a business capacity for several years now.
It helps support me through my company (a sole-proprietorship IT consulting bit) by allowing me to process credit cards.
Those things are quickly becoming a fact of life in business... 

Anyway what I really mean to get at is that PayPal has treated me better than any of my banks have.
When somebody pays me, the transaction takes no more than 5 minutes and then I have money on hand.
I can either wire it over if I have a few days, or use their plug-in or my debit card to purchase things directly from my account.
While they do not have anything really resembling customer service, they usually don't seem to need it, IMO.
I once had an eBay transaction that went sour.
I got all huffy and upset that they reversed the charges.
I quickly became an enemy of PayPal, screaming their injustices.
What happened was that I had been selling some spare parts and one of them went outside the United States.
The Canadian yokel that got them just decided to screw me and I hadn't really created a trail of accountability because I was unprepared for out of country transactions (no tracking, etc).
PayPal was in the clear to reverse it because there was really no proof that I ever shipped it to him.
That was my fault, but I've learned since then and that company has allowed me to eke a living for myself without having to bow down to the merchant services that involve monthly fees and other stupid crap.
Just felt like sharing that not every story with them is a bad one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874354</id>
	<title>This is just dumb dumb dumb.</title>
	<author>barfy</author>
	<datestamp>1264255920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Paypal and any other donation service needs to be used as a conduit only.  Only enough money needs to be kept in the conduit to keep it active.</p><p>All other moneys are swept daily.  And placed in normal operations, excess moneys need to be dealt with in order to help defeat single bank actions.  Preferably under whatever shells you need..</p><p>If you are at all political, multiple conduits need to have already been investigated,  and ready to be set-up in a single days notice.</p><p>Merchant accounts are NOT that expensive.</p><p>They are in talks to change the laws in Iceland.  Surely they have somebody bright enough to come up with a way not to get fucked over by paypal again.  They should simply not have access to enough cash to take you down.</p><p>SHAME!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Paypal and any other donation service needs to be used as a conduit only .
Only enough money needs to be kept in the conduit to keep it active.All other moneys are swept daily .
And placed in normal operations , excess moneys need to be dealt with in order to help defeat single bank actions .
Preferably under whatever shells you need..If you are at all political , multiple conduits need to have already been investigated , and ready to be set-up in a single days notice.Merchant accounts are NOT that expensive.They are in talks to change the laws in Iceland .
Surely they have somebody bright enough to come up with a way not to get fucked over by paypal again .
They should simply not have access to enough cash to take you down.SHAME !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Paypal and any other donation service needs to be used as a conduit only.
Only enough money needs to be kept in the conduit to keep it active.All other moneys are swept daily.
And placed in normal operations, excess moneys need to be dealt with in order to help defeat single bank actions.
Preferably under whatever shells you need..If you are at all political, multiple conduits need to have already been investigated,  and ready to be set-up in a single days notice.Merchant accounts are NOT that expensive.They are in talks to change the laws in Iceland.
Surely they have somebody bright enough to come up with a way not to get fucked over by paypal again.
They should simply not have access to enough cash to take you down.SHAME!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30878260</id>
	<title>Re:Wikileaks is webbugged!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264348740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Looks to me like someone ripped some code for the paypal form and forgot to change the deep linked image. There are much easier ways of tracking visitors than this, if it is what you purport.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Looks to me like someone ripped some code for the paypal form and forgot to change the deep linked image .
There are much easier ways of tracking visitors than this , if it is what you purport .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looks to me like someone ripped some code for the paypal form and forgot to change the deep linked image.
There are much easier ways of tracking visitors than this, if it is what you purport.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872928</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872900</id>
	<title>Re:maybe I'm missing something but...</title>
	<author>/dev/trash</author>
	<datestamp>1264244280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But they promised they'd be nice this time!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But they promised they 'd be nice this time !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But they promised they'd be nice this time!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872814</id>
	<title>PayPal Regulation?</title>
	<author>Pearson</author>
	<datestamp>1264243560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is it too much to hope that this will bring Pay Pal to the attention of the US Government and finally get PayPal regulated as the bank it clearly is?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it too much to hope that this will bring Pay Pal to the attention of the US Government and finally get PayPal regulated as the bank it clearly is ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it too much to hope that this will bring Pay Pal to the attention of the US Government and finally get PayPal regulated as the bank it clearly is?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872982</id>
	<title>One word:</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1264244760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Monopoly. Where else can you go?</p><p>Aside from any EULA, how can this be legal? I can understand if there is fraud going on and courts get involved but this is purely political extortion/theft.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Monopoly .
Where else can you go ? Aside from any EULA , how can this be legal ?
I can understand if there is fraud going on and courts get involved but this is purely political extortion/theft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Monopoly.
Where else can you go?Aside from any EULA, how can this be legal?
I can understand if there is fraud going on and courts get involved but this is purely political extortion/theft.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873630</id>
	<title>Re:Don't use PayPal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264249500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You should also move the money that is withdrawn to a seperate account, not the one that is connected to paypal.  The account that connects to Paypal should be kept sparsely funded.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You should also move the money that is withdrawn to a seperate account , not the one that is connected to paypal .
The account that connects to Paypal should be kept sparsely funded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You should also move the money that is withdrawn to a seperate account, not the one that is connected to paypal.
The account that connects to Paypal should be kept sparsely funded.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30879734</id>
	<title>Why?</title>
	<author>argent</author>
	<datestamp>1264358400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why is Paypal freezing their account? Paypal isn't saying and Wikileaks doesn't know? If Paypal is selectively freezing accounts of NGOs and charities, as the article suggests, why is that so?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is Paypal freezing their account ?
Paypal is n't saying and Wikileaks does n't know ?
If Paypal is selectively freezing accounts of NGOs and charities , as the article suggests , why is that so ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is Paypal freezing their account?
Paypal isn't saying and Wikileaks doesn't know?
If Paypal is selectively freezing accounts of NGOs and charities, as the article suggests, why is that so?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872836</id>
	<title>maybe I'm missing something but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264243680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once, and you "struggled for more than half a year" to resolve it, why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once , and you " struggled for more than half a year " to resolve it , why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once, and you "struggled for more than half a year" to resolve it, why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30874320</id>
	<title>personally</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264255740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My old paypal account hasn't been frozen, instead Paypal decided to steal 340euros, on a self-reported, by both parties, phishing case. Victim had fallen for a phishing site, and her account details were used to order some services from my company worth about 170euros.</p><p>She contacted me quickly about what had happened, asking me to send the money back. At the time (not sure do they still) there was no "refund" option for businesses (this was many many years back), therefore i informed, with all details i know, this to paypal. She did the same. Nothing happened, despite multiple contact attempts to paypal for months. After quite a few months, they took 340euros from my account (twice the amount in question), and never refunded the money to the phishing victim.</p><p>Any contact attempts were futile, money was never returned.</p><p>After which i stopped accepting Paypal, and used moneybookers. 80\% of all payments to my business was made via Moneybookers a bit later, and it was quite a competitive advantage.<br>I didn't use paypal again after 4-5years, and now conduct low volume business transactions through it, on a new account.</p><p>Posting AC as i don't want any kind of chances of freezing on my new account.</p><p>Oh paypalsucks.com has full of these stories AND there's a urban legend going on that even janitors used to have access to your account details... Paypal is the most evil (and overpriced), and unfriendly to their customers, business i know off.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My old paypal account has n't been frozen , instead Paypal decided to steal 340euros , on a self-reported , by both parties , phishing case .
Victim had fallen for a phishing site , and her account details were used to order some services from my company worth about 170euros.She contacted me quickly about what had happened , asking me to send the money back .
At the time ( not sure do they still ) there was no " refund " option for businesses ( this was many many years back ) , therefore i informed , with all details i know , this to paypal .
She did the same .
Nothing happened , despite multiple contact attempts to paypal for months .
After quite a few months , they took 340euros from my account ( twice the amount in question ) , and never refunded the money to the phishing victim.Any contact attempts were futile , money was never returned.After which i stopped accepting Paypal , and used moneybookers .
80 \ % of all payments to my business was made via Moneybookers a bit later , and it was quite a competitive advantage.I did n't use paypal again after 4-5years , and now conduct low volume business transactions through it , on a new account.Posting AC as i do n't want any kind of chances of freezing on my new account.Oh paypalsucks.com has full of these stories AND there 's a urban legend going on that even janitors used to have access to your account details... Paypal is the most evil ( and overpriced ) , and unfriendly to their customers , business i know off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My old paypal account hasn't been frozen, instead Paypal decided to steal 340euros, on a self-reported, by both parties, phishing case.
Victim had fallen for a phishing site, and her account details were used to order some services from my company worth about 170euros.She contacted me quickly about what had happened, asking me to send the money back.
At the time (not sure do they still) there was no "refund" option for businesses (this was many many years back), therefore i informed, with all details i know, this to paypal.
She did the same.
Nothing happened, despite multiple contact attempts to paypal for months.
After quite a few months, they took 340euros from my account (twice the amount in question), and never refunded the money to the phishing victim.Any contact attempts were futile, money was never returned.After which i stopped accepting Paypal, and used moneybookers.
80\% of all payments to my business was made via Moneybookers a bit later, and it was quite a competitive advantage.I didn't use paypal again after 4-5years, and now conduct low volume business transactions through it, on a new account.Posting AC as i don't want any kind of chances of freezing on my new account.Oh paypalsucks.com has full of these stories AND there's a urban legend going on that even janitors used to have access to your account details... Paypal is the most evil (and overpriced), and unfriendly to their customers, business i know off.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30877314</id>
	<title>Re:maybe I'm missing something but...</title>
	<author>RAMMS+EIN</author>
	<datestamp>1264335900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>``If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once, and you "struggled for more than half a year" to resolve it, why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?''</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network\_effect" title="wikipedia.org">Network effects</a> [wikipedia.org]. They use PayPal because many other people use PayPal. This makes it easy for people to donate. Had Wikileaks not used PayPal, many people who would otherwise donate through PayPal would be forced to find another way, and decide not to bother.</p><p>I also use PayPal, but (1) I live in Europe, where PayPal is more strictly regulated, and (2) I make sure to keep my PayPal balance low, so I don't lose a lot if it becomes inaccessible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>` ` If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once , and you " struggled for more than half a year " to resolve it , why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal ?
''Network effects [ wikipedia.org ] .
They use PayPal because many other people use PayPal .
This makes it easy for people to donate .
Had Wikileaks not used PayPal , many people who would otherwise donate through PayPal would be forced to find another way , and decide not to bother.I also use PayPal , but ( 1 ) I live in Europe , where PayPal is more strictly regulated , and ( 2 ) I make sure to keep my PayPal balance low , so I do n't lose a lot if it becomes inaccessible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>``If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once, and you "struggled for more than half a year" to resolve it, why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?
''Network effects [wikipedia.org].
They use PayPal because many other people use PayPal.
This makes it easy for people to donate.
Had Wikileaks not used PayPal, many people who would otherwise donate through PayPal would be forced to find another way, and decide not to bother.I also use PayPal, but (1) I live in Europe, where PayPal is more strictly regulated, and (2) I make sure to keep my PayPal balance low, so I don't lose a lot if it becomes inaccessible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873032</id>
	<title>working mirror</title>
	<author>toxygen01</author>
	<datestamp>1264245120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>is here: <a href="http://mirror.wikileaks.info/" title="wikileaks.info" rel="nofollow">http://mirror.wikileaks.info/</a> [wikileaks.info]</htmltext>
<tokenext>is here : http : //mirror.wikileaks.info/ [ wikileaks.info ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>is here: http://mirror.wikileaks.info/ [wikileaks.info]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872902</id>
	<title>Re:maybe I'm missing something but...</title>
	<author>s-whs</author>
	<datestamp>1264244280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once, and you "struggled for more than half a year" to resolve it, why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?</p></div><p>Because they would probably need to setup many bank accounts in many countries. It's probably also ease-of-use. Easy to press a few buttons and fill out an amount with paypal and transfer money, than to transfer using say direct bank-transfer. This means people are more likely to donate...

<br> <br>
Another example: I use paypal but I'd rather not. However, I sell specific items worldwide, and there are no other good wide used systems to transfer money from say the USA to the Netherlands. Bank transfer is something hardly used in the US for example, and if used, the cost is often prohibitive. So if I want to sell to the US, there's no real choice.
<br> <br>
What's then annoying is that many Europeans (in euro countries) also use paypal... In Ebay you are not allowed to say "I won't use paypal for people in counties using the EURO".
<br> <br>
This doesn't apply to wikileaks, but just gives an idea why sometimes you don't have a choice, or the others are just too expensive (bank transfer in the US too expensive, Western union is also fairly expensive and has other problems, etc.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once , and you " struggled for more than half a year " to resolve it , why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal ? Because they would probably need to setup many bank accounts in many countries .
It 's probably also ease-of-use .
Easy to press a few buttons and fill out an amount with paypal and transfer money , than to transfer using say direct bank-transfer .
This means people are more likely to donate.. . Another example : I use paypal but I 'd rather not .
However , I sell specific items worldwide , and there are no other good wide used systems to transfer money from say the USA to the Netherlands .
Bank transfer is something hardly used in the US for example , and if used , the cost is often prohibitive .
So if I want to sell to the US , there 's no real choice .
What 's then annoying is that many Europeans ( in euro countries ) also use paypal... In Ebay you are not allowed to say " I wo n't use paypal for people in counties using the EURO " .
This does n't apply to wikileaks , but just gives an idea why sometimes you do n't have a choice , or the others are just too expensive ( bank transfer in the US too expensive , Western union is also fairly expensive and has other problems , etc .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your organization used Paypal and they froze your assets once, and you "struggled for more than half a year" to resolve it, why the fuck would you STILL be using Paypal?Because they would probably need to setup many bank accounts in many countries.
It's probably also ease-of-use.
Easy to press a few buttons and fill out an amount with paypal and transfer money, than to transfer using say direct bank-transfer.
This means people are more likely to donate...

 
Another example: I use paypal but I'd rather not.
However, I sell specific items worldwide, and there are no other good wide used systems to transfer money from say the USA to the Netherlands.
Bank transfer is something hardly used in the US for example, and if used, the cost is often prohibitive.
So if I want to sell to the US, there's no real choice.
What's then annoying is that many Europeans (in euro countries) also use paypal... In Ebay you are not allowed to say "I won't use paypal for people in counties using the EURO".
This doesn't apply to wikileaks, but just gives an idea why sometimes you don't have a choice, or the others are just too expensive (bank transfer in the US too expensive, Western union is also fairly expensive and has other problems, etc.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30872836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30878908</id>
	<title>Lawyer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264353300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How effective would a dashed-off letter from an attorney be in cases like this? Something like that might be good to know in case this ever happens to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How effective would a dashed-off letter from an attorney be in cases like this ?
Something like that might be good to know in case this ever happens to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How effective would a dashed-off letter from an attorney be in cases like this?
Something like that might be good to know in case this ever happens to me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30898632</id>
	<title>how to avoid the paypal freeze n getting rippedoff</title>
	<author>Nyder</author>
	<datestamp>1264426920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Step 1:  Make a new bank account.<br>Step 2:  Use the new bank account for paypal.<br>Step 3:  When money gets deposited into the paypal bank account, move to another bank account.<br>Step 4:  When the freeze hits, it hits nothing to very little.<br>Step 5:  Profit!!!!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Step 1 : Make a new bank account.Step 2 : Use the new bank account for paypal.Step 3 : When money gets deposited into the paypal bank account , move to another bank account.Step 4 : When the freeze hits , it hits nothing to very little.Step 5 : Profit ! ! ! ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Step 1:  Make a new bank account.Step 2:  Use the new bank account for paypal.Step 3:  When money gets deposited into the paypal bank account, move to another bank account.Step 4:  When the freeze hits, it hits nothing to very little.Step 5:  Profit!!!!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_23_2138204.30873582</id>
	<title>My personal PayPal horror story</title>
	<author>Eric Freyhart</author>
	<datestamp>1264249140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>My horror story with Paypal starts many years ago. I had a personal account with them since something like the late 90s, and never once had an issue with them. That was before I went into business for myself, and converted the account over to a business account around the year 2000. What a mistake.
<br> <br>
Now, let me just state the following:
<br> <br>
- We sold books, novels, and prints.<br>
- We sold works that were NOT adult.<br>
- We sold works that we clearly had the copyright on.<br>
- We were an independant publisher.
<br> <br>
I learned oneday that the account had been closed due to a violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. Well, we were in the business of self publishing, things like science fiction novels and fantasy books. We sold online through our own website and through Amazon.com. I contacted Paypal and got a nice lady on the phone who went over our online web site with me on the phone and could not find what would have been a violation. So the account was re-activated...
<br> <br>
Oh, then a few months later same thing. Account closed. This time with this message...
<br> <br>
<i>In accordance with PayPal's User Agreement and Acceptable Use Policy, we have closed your account. Your funds may be held for 180 days from the date of your last transaction. After 180 days, you will be able to access your funds by requesting an online bank transfer or, if applicable, a check from PayPal. Please update your address or bank information as we cannot be held responsible for checks issued to an incorrect address. We do ask that you please remove reference(s) to PayPal from your site.</i>
<br> <br>
I tried for over a month to get the account back in good standing, but was constantly told that the decision was final and there was nothing I could do. We sold everything on our main website through Amazon.com also (who never had any issue with the books we printed), and they also accepted Paypal as a payment method. Still to this day I have not been told a reason, nor given any information on why this action was taken. We simply gave up on Paypal and converted the site over to a real merchant account.
<br> <br>
3 years ago I sold the company and the assets to another publishing firm. I started a new enterprise under a new LLC and opened a Paypal account again. No problems, no issues. Oh, I must have been an idiot to think Paypal was not going to do it to me again...
<br> <br>
Well, my new account is now closed. It seems that Paypal has not blocked the company from using the account, but they did blacklist me. As soon as we went in to convert the account over to a business account I entered my SSN and wham! Account closed due to the original violation from over 3 years ago.
<br> <br>
Now, I was under the assumption in the United Stated that you could not blacklist a person from your business unless there was a dam good legal reason. And why won't they tell me what in the world I did to violate their user agreement? Its like being tried, convicted, and sentenced without as much as a ray of hope to prove your not guilty.
<br> <br>
I had a service rep fom Paypal (a manager) go over our new website (we sell clothing) and could not find a single thing that could possible violate any policies from Paypal, nor could he find any reason for this decision. But it is final, and over with.
<br> <br>
To make a long story short, I am now blacklisted from ever using Paypal again. No reason, no explanation, no way of proving that I am not guilty, and no way to do anything about it. It has been, to this day, the most horrible experience I have ever gone through. I kept getting the impression from Paypal that I was some sort of pornographer. I feel ashamed and tarnished by this decision, and will have to deal with it for the rest of my life.
<br> <br>
I personally recommend to anyone who asks me to stay away from Paypal. NEVER use this company, as you have NO protection under law from any harm they cause you or your company.
<br> <br>
Get a real merchant account. With a merchant account you deal directly with the credit card companies and</htmltext>
<tokenext>My horror story with Paypal starts many years ago .
I had a personal account with them since something like the late 90s , and never once had an issue with them .
That was before I went into business for myself , and converted the account over to a business account around the year 2000 .
What a mistake .
Now , let me just state the following : - We sold books , novels , and prints .
- We sold works that were NOT adult .
- We sold works that we clearly had the copyright on .
- We were an independant publisher .
I learned oneday that the account had been closed due to a violation of the Acceptable Use Policy .
Well , we were in the business of self publishing , things like science fiction novels and fantasy books .
We sold online through our own website and through Amazon.com .
I contacted Paypal and got a nice lady on the phone who went over our online web site with me on the phone and could not find what would have been a violation .
So the account was re-activated.. . Oh , then a few months later same thing .
Account closed .
This time with this message.. . In accordance with PayPal 's User Agreement and Acceptable Use Policy , we have closed your account .
Your funds may be held for 180 days from the date of your last transaction .
After 180 days , you will be able to access your funds by requesting an online bank transfer or , if applicable , a check from PayPal .
Please update your address or bank information as we can not be held responsible for checks issued to an incorrect address .
We do ask that you please remove reference ( s ) to PayPal from your site .
I tried for over a month to get the account back in good standing , but was constantly told that the decision was final and there was nothing I could do .
We sold everything on our main website through Amazon.com also ( who never had any issue with the books we printed ) , and they also accepted Paypal as a payment method .
Still to this day I have not been told a reason , nor given any information on why this action was taken .
We simply gave up on Paypal and converted the site over to a real merchant account .
3 years ago I sold the company and the assets to another publishing firm .
I started a new enterprise under a new LLC and opened a Paypal account again .
No problems , no issues .
Oh , I must have been an idiot to think Paypal was not going to do it to me again.. . Well , my new account is now closed .
It seems that Paypal has not blocked the company from using the account , but they did blacklist me .
As soon as we went in to convert the account over to a business account I entered my SSN and wham !
Account closed due to the original violation from over 3 years ago .
Now , I was under the assumption in the United Stated that you could not blacklist a person from your business unless there was a dam good legal reason .
And why wo n't they tell me what in the world I did to violate their user agreement ?
Its like being tried , convicted , and sentenced without as much as a ray of hope to prove your not guilty .
I had a service rep fom Paypal ( a manager ) go over our new website ( we sell clothing ) and could not find a single thing that could possible violate any policies from Paypal , nor could he find any reason for this decision .
But it is final , and over with .
To make a long story short , I am now blacklisted from ever using Paypal again .
No reason , no explanation , no way of proving that I am not guilty , and no way to do anything about it .
It has been , to this day , the most horrible experience I have ever gone through .
I kept getting the impression from Paypal that I was some sort of pornographer .
I feel ashamed and tarnished by this decision , and will have to deal with it for the rest of my life .
I personally recommend to anyone who asks me to stay away from Paypal .
NEVER use this company , as you have NO protection under law from any harm they cause you or your company .
Get a real merchant account .
With a merchant account you deal directly with the credit card companies and</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My horror story with Paypal starts many years ago.
I had a personal account with them since something like the late 90s, and never once had an issue with them.
That was before I went into business for myself, and converted the account over to a business account around the year 2000.
What a mistake.
Now, let me just state the following:
 
- We sold books, novels, and prints.
- We sold works that were NOT adult.
- We sold works that we clearly had the copyright on.
- We were an independant publisher.
I learned oneday that the account had been closed due to a violation of the Acceptable Use Policy.
Well, we were in the business of self publishing, things like science fiction novels and fantasy books.
We sold online through our own website and through Amazon.com.
I contacted Paypal and got a nice lady on the phone who went over our online web site with me on the phone and could not find what would have been a violation.
So the account was re-activated...
 
Oh, then a few months later same thing.
Account closed.
This time with this message...
 
In accordance with PayPal's User Agreement and Acceptable Use Policy, we have closed your account.
Your funds may be held for 180 days from the date of your last transaction.
After 180 days, you will be able to access your funds by requesting an online bank transfer or, if applicable, a check from PayPal.
Please update your address or bank information as we cannot be held responsible for checks issued to an incorrect address.
We do ask that you please remove reference(s) to PayPal from your site.
I tried for over a month to get the account back in good standing, but was constantly told that the decision was final and there was nothing I could do.
We sold everything on our main website through Amazon.com also (who never had any issue with the books we printed), and they also accepted Paypal as a payment method.
Still to this day I have not been told a reason, nor given any information on why this action was taken.
We simply gave up on Paypal and converted the site over to a real merchant account.
3 years ago I sold the company and the assets to another publishing firm.
I started a new enterprise under a new LLC and opened a Paypal account again.
No problems, no issues.
Oh, I must have been an idiot to think Paypal was not going to do it to me again...
 
Well, my new account is now closed.
It seems that Paypal has not blocked the company from using the account, but they did blacklist me.
As soon as we went in to convert the account over to a business account I entered my SSN and wham!
Account closed due to the original violation from over 3 years ago.
Now, I was under the assumption in the United Stated that you could not blacklist a person from your business unless there was a dam good legal reason.
And why won't they tell me what in the world I did to violate their user agreement?
Its like being tried, convicted, and sentenced without as much as a ray of hope to prove your not guilty.
I had a service rep fom Paypal (a manager) go over our new website (we sell clothing) and could not find a single thing that could possible violate any policies from Paypal, nor could he find any reason for this decision.
But it is final, and over with.
To make a long story short, I am now blacklisted from ever using Paypal again.
No reason, no explanation, no way of proving that I am not guilty, and no way to do anything about it.
It has been, to this day, the most horrible experience I have ever gone through.
I kept getting the impression from Paypal that I was some sort of pornographer.
I feel ashamed and tarnished by this decision, and will have to deal with it for the rest of my life.
I personally recommend to anyone who asks me to stay away from Paypal.
NEVER use this company, as you have NO protection under law from any harm they cause you or your company.
Get a real merchant account.
With a merchant account you deal directly with the credit card companies and</sentencetext>
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