<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_22_0812222</id>
	<title>Pen vs. Keyboard vs. Touch vs. Everything Else</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1264165980000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>benz001 writes <i>"In the run-up to everyone's favourite tablet, Phil Gyford goes back through his gadget collection and <a href="http://www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2010/01/18/input.php">compares text entry speeds</a> to see which one comes out on top. It's not what you'd call a rich data set, and of course the Qwerty keyboard comes up trumps, but the iPhone virtual keyboard came in a surprisingly close second, just edging out the Treo &mdash; and all the keyboard solutions regardless of how small and fiddly beat real pen and paper. This probably matches most people's experience (when was the last time you had to handwrite more than a bullet point in a meeting?) and gels pretty well with <a href="http://www.macworld.com/article/145609/2010/01/tablet\_text\_entry.html">Macworld's predictions</a> but I'm still hoping for sub-vocal voice recognition. (Jump <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/35034346050@N01/4284059133">straight to the final results here</a>)."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>benz001 writes " In the run-up to everyone 's favourite tablet , Phil Gyford goes back through his gadget collection and compares text entry speeds to see which one comes out on top .
It 's not what you 'd call a rich data set , and of course the Qwerty keyboard comes up trumps , but the iPhone virtual keyboard came in a surprisingly close second , just edging out the Treo    and all the keyboard solutions regardless of how small and fiddly beat real pen and paper .
This probably matches most people 's experience ( when was the last time you had to handwrite more than a bullet point in a meeting ?
) and gels pretty well with Macworld 's predictions but I 'm still hoping for sub-vocal voice recognition .
( Jump straight to the final results here ) .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>benz001 writes "In the run-up to everyone's favourite tablet, Phil Gyford goes back through his gadget collection and compares text entry speeds to see which one comes out on top.
It's not what you'd call a rich data set, and of course the Qwerty keyboard comes up trumps, but the iPhone virtual keyboard came in a surprisingly close second, just edging out the Treo — and all the keyboard solutions regardless of how small and fiddly beat real pen and paper.
This probably matches most people's experience (when was the last time you had to handwrite more than a bullet point in a meeting?
) and gels pretty well with Macworld's predictions but I'm still hoping for sub-vocal voice recognition.
(Jump straight to the final results here).
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30864358</id>
	<title>Re:Virtual keyboard not faster</title>
	<author>ajlisows</author>
	<datestamp>1264158840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I actually was a little bit disappointed by this article.  With the devices used, it has the feel of a "Look how awesome my iPhone is".  It is probably just because the guy doing this happened to have those devices laying around...but a Treo 650?  Really?  Compared to keyboards on Smart Phones like the HTC Touch Pro or the Motorola Droid, Treo keyboards are quite difficult to type on.</p><p>Speaking of typing, what is up with the "Chiclet" style keyboards that are popping up on various laptop/netbook devices?  Please please please don't tell me this is going to become the standard.  I despise those types of keyboards with every fiber of my being.  They sucked back during the PCjr days, they suck now, and they will suck forever.  I could probably rant about them, tossing out vague insults, but since anyone sensible probably stopped reading this post already...i'll let it go.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I actually was a little bit disappointed by this article .
With the devices used , it has the feel of a " Look how awesome my iPhone is " .
It is probably just because the guy doing this happened to have those devices laying around...but a Treo 650 ?
Really ? Compared to keyboards on Smart Phones like the HTC Touch Pro or the Motorola Droid , Treo keyboards are quite difficult to type on.Speaking of typing , what is up with the " Chiclet " style keyboards that are popping up on various laptop/netbook devices ?
Please please please do n't tell me this is going to become the standard .
I despise those types of keyboards with every fiber of my being .
They sucked back during the PCjr days , they suck now , and they will suck forever .
I could probably rant about them , tossing out vague insults , but since anyone sensible probably stopped reading this post already...i 'll let it go .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I actually was a little bit disappointed by this article.
With the devices used, it has the feel of a "Look how awesome my iPhone is".
It is probably just because the guy doing this happened to have those devices laying around...but a Treo 650?
Really?  Compared to keyboards on Smart Phones like the HTC Touch Pro or the Motorola Droid, Treo keyboards are quite difficult to type on.Speaking of typing, what is up with the "Chiclet" style keyboards that are popping up on various laptop/netbook devices?
Please please please don't tell me this is going to become the standard.
I despise those types of keyboards with every fiber of my being.
They sucked back during the PCjr days, they suck now, and they will suck forever.
I could probably rant about them, tossing out vague insults, but since anyone sensible probably stopped reading this post already...i'll let it go.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858932</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858926</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>Bigbutt</author>
	<datestamp>1264173240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm actually not too bad with the iPhone as far as typing goes. With my oversized hands and especially thumbs, I do tend to make a few mistakes here and there. Hitting the shift vs 'a' and space vs 'n' or 'm' are the biggest issues. Add in the word replacement the iPhone does for errors which fixes most of the worst mistakes but does replace non-standard gaming words with more common words and I can fly along.</p><p>The worst problem with the iPhone right now is replying to forum posts. You can't scroll within a text box so you're limited to the available space.</p><p>[John]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm actually not too bad with the iPhone as far as typing goes .
With my oversized hands and especially thumbs , I do tend to make a few mistakes here and there .
Hitting the shift vs 'a ' and space vs 'n ' or 'm ' are the biggest issues .
Add in the word replacement the iPhone does for errors which fixes most of the worst mistakes but does replace non-standard gaming words with more common words and I can fly along.The worst problem with the iPhone right now is replying to forum posts .
You ca n't scroll within a text box so you 're limited to the available space .
[ John ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm actually not too bad with the iPhone as far as typing goes.
With my oversized hands and especially thumbs, I do tend to make a few mistakes here and there.
Hitting the shift vs 'a' and space vs 'n' or 'm' are the biggest issues.
Add in the word replacement the iPhone does for errors which fixes most of the worst mistakes but does replace non-standard gaming words with more common words and I can fly along.The worst problem with the iPhone right now is replying to forum posts.
You can't scroll within a text box so you're limited to the available space.
[John]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30860282</id>
	<title>Re:a true geek ...</title>
	<author>dynamo</author>
	<datestamp>1264180020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been using Dvorak for 10 years now, and would never go back. It's SO much easier on the fingers and faster as well. This comparison is a joke without Dvorak.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been using Dvorak for 10 years now , and would never go back .
It 's SO much easier on the fingers and faster as well .
This comparison is a joke without Dvorak .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been using Dvorak for 10 years now, and would never go back.
It's SO much easier on the fingers and faster as well.
This comparison is a joke without Dvorak.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858554</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859474</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>shashark</author>
	<datestamp>1264176180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>you've never seen my girlfriend write in a hurry.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..</p></div><p>Have you ?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>you 've never seen my girlfriend write in a hurry .
..Have you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you've never seen my girlfriend write in a hurry.
..Have you ?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858598</id>
	<title>A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys</title>
	<author>petes\_PoV</author>
	<datestamp>1264170480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...  that doesn't move.
<p>
A touchpad is probably the dumbest design you can think of, for anything except the most coarse-grained "point and shoot". Imagine trying to use <i>photoshop</i> on a touch screen. All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger(s) that are doing the selecting. How stoooopid is that? Obviously the people who thought it was a good idea either took us all for fools, or reckoned we'd evolve transparent fingers in a year or two.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... that does n't move .
A touchpad is probably the dumbest design you can think of , for anything except the most coarse-grained " point and shoot " .
Imagine trying to use photoshop on a touch screen .
All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger ( s ) that are doing the selecting .
How stoooopid is that ?
Obviously the people who thought it was a good idea either took us all for fools , or reckoned we 'd evolve transparent fingers in a year or two .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...  that doesn't move.
A touchpad is probably the dumbest design you can think of, for anything except the most coarse-grained "point and shoot".
Imagine trying to use photoshop on a touch screen.
All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger(s) that are doing the selecting.
How stoooopid is that?
Obviously the people who thought it was a good idea either took us all for fools, or reckoned we'd evolve transparent fingers in a year or two.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30865514</id>
	<title>Re:Virtual keyboard not faster</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264166820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its strange that you think its not possible for a virtual keyboard to be faster... so here are some reasons it can be for you to think about. To actually settle the argument you would need to refer to what registered record times have been reached by experts.</p><p>One advantaged claimed for physical keyboards is home-key memory.  e.g. you can feel if your thumbs are straying.  I suspect this is why when I see most iPhone users type though that they use the smaller, vertical mode.  Your thumbs don't move that far so memory of where they are isn't that big a problem as it might be for a pure virtual keyboard the size of a full size keyboard.</p><p>The second is one of heuristics.  If my thumb hits between two keys, but slightly towards the wrong one, on a physical keyboard it is read as the wrong key and the information about where my thumb actually was is lost.  That information is retained on the virtual keyboard and can be used in error correction.</p><p>Two things to think about.  Other advantages exist such as recording how the thumb moved as it came down over the key, rearranging the keyboard for different typing situations, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its strange that you think its not possible for a virtual keyboard to be faster... so here are some reasons it can be for you to think about .
To actually settle the argument you would need to refer to what registered record times have been reached by experts.One advantaged claimed for physical keyboards is home-key memory .
e.g. you can feel if your thumbs are straying .
I suspect this is why when I see most iPhone users type though that they use the smaller , vertical mode .
Your thumbs do n't move that far so memory of where they are is n't that big a problem as it might be for a pure virtual keyboard the size of a full size keyboard.The second is one of heuristics .
If my thumb hits between two keys , but slightly towards the wrong one , on a physical keyboard it is read as the wrong key and the information about where my thumb actually was is lost .
That information is retained on the virtual keyboard and can be used in error correction.Two things to think about .
Other advantages exist such as recording how the thumb moved as it came down over the key , rearranging the keyboard for different typing situations , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its strange that you think its not possible for a virtual keyboard to be faster... so here are some reasons it can be for you to think about.
To actually settle the argument you would need to refer to what registered record times have been reached by experts.One advantaged claimed for physical keyboards is home-key memory.
e.g. you can feel if your thumbs are straying.
I suspect this is why when I see most iPhone users type though that they use the smaller, vertical mode.
Your thumbs don't move that far so memory of where they are isn't that big a problem as it might be for a pure virtual keyboard the size of a full size keyboard.The second is one of heuristics.
If my thumb hits between two keys, but slightly towards the wrong one, on a physical keyboard it is read as the wrong key and the information about where my thumb actually was is lost.
That information is retained on the virtual keyboard and can be used in error correction.Two things to think about.
Other advantages exist such as recording how the thumb moved as it came down over the key, rearranging the keyboard for different typing situations, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858932</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858752</id>
	<title>Re:"trumps"?</title>
	<author>Attila Dimedici</author>
	<datestamp>1264171980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, I think they were thinking something along the lines of "Qwerty trumps all the others", but in the process of writing it came out the way it did. And while other people point out that this has apparently become an idiom, it does not to my ears make sense.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , I think they were thinking something along the lines of " Qwerty trumps all the others " , but in the process of writing it came out the way it did .
And while other people point out that this has apparently become an idiom , it does not to my ears make sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, I think they were thinking something along the lines of "Qwerty trumps all the others", but in the process of writing it came out the way it did.
And while other people point out that this has apparently become an idiom, it does not to my ears make sense.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858586</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858798</id>
	<title>Pull out keyboard</title>
	<author>RemoWilliams84</author>
	<datestamp>1264172400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a firm believer that all tablets and smart phones need some kind of a pullout keyboard.  Would it really be that hard to incorporate a pull-out keyboard with the most basic keys (numbers, letters, shift, space...)?  It could even have smaller keys than a real keyboard and be practical.  I don't want to be cornered into using a touch screen or stylus for extensive note taking and such.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a firm believer that all tablets and smart phones need some kind of a pullout keyboard .
Would it really be that hard to incorporate a pull-out keyboard with the most basic keys ( numbers , letters , shift , space... ) ?
It could even have smaller keys than a real keyboard and be practical .
I do n't want to be cornered into using a touch screen or stylus for extensive note taking and such .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a firm believer that all tablets and smart phones need some kind of a pullout keyboard.
Would it really be that hard to incorporate a pull-out keyboard with the most basic keys (numbers, letters, shift, space...)?
It could even have smaller keys than a real keyboard and be practical.
I don't want to be cornered into using a touch screen or stylus for extensive note taking and such.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858766</id>
	<title>Morse?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264172040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are morse input devices for disabled people. A competent operator could probably do quite well, especially with an iambic input device (two buttons or paddles).</p><p>This may be of interest: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&amp;videoid=8542413  funny hats not needed!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are morse input devices for disabled people .
A competent operator could probably do quite well , especially with an iambic input device ( two buttons or paddles ) .This may be of interest : http : //vids.myspace.com/index.cfm ? fuseaction = vids.individual&amp;videoid = 8542413 funny hats not needed !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are morse input devices for disabled people.
A competent operator could probably do quite well, especially with an iambic input device (two buttons or paddles).This may be of interest: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&amp;videoid=8542413  funny hats not needed!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30861112</id>
	<title>Re:a true geek ...</title>
	<author>hardaker</author>
	<datestamp>1264184040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't forget morse code!  Somewhere on youtube is the video of the morse code experts beating the world record holder for text messaging speed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget morse code !
Somewhere on youtube is the video of the morse code experts beating the world record holder for text messaging speed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget morse code!
Somewhere on youtube is the video of the morse code experts beating the world record holder for text messaging speed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858554</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858882</id>
	<title>Treo Keypads Are Fast</title>
	<author>TheNinjaroach</author>
	<datestamp>1264173000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have a Palm Treo 755p which has a full QWERTY keypad on it. The buttons are tiny but they are shaped just right for quick entry.  My friends with iPhones agree that the real keypad on my phone is certainly quicker than typing on their touch screens.  With a bit more practice, I bet the author would agree.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a Palm Treo 755p which has a full QWERTY keypad on it .
The buttons are tiny but they are shaped just right for quick entry .
My friends with iPhones agree that the real keypad on my phone is certainly quicker than typing on their touch screens .
With a bit more practice , I bet the author would agree .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a Palm Treo 755p which has a full QWERTY keypad on it.
The buttons are tiny but they are shaped just right for quick entry.
My friends with iPhones agree that the real keypad on my phone is certainly quicker than typing on their touch screens.
With a bit more practice, I bet the author would agree.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30863106</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>PCM2</author>
	<datestamp>1264152840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Where</i> does your mom work? I read a story a couple years ago about how they no longer teach shorthand to journalists in Britain, but that the UK had been the hold-out -- they haven't taught shorthand in American journalism schools in years. I'm curious where your mom picked it up. I don't even completely understand how shorthand works, but it sounds eminently useful.</p><p>(Then again, one mistake that note-takers often make is trying to write down everything that's said, which means they aren't really parsing the information in real time. If you're actually <i>listening</i> to the speaker, you can often write down just the germane points, so you don't really need to write as fast as a typist can type.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Where does your mom work ?
I read a story a couple years ago about how they no longer teach shorthand to journalists in Britain , but that the UK had been the hold-out -- they have n't taught shorthand in American journalism schools in years .
I 'm curious where your mom picked it up .
I do n't even completely understand how shorthand works , but it sounds eminently useful .
( Then again , one mistake that note-takers often make is trying to write down everything that 's said , which means they are n't really parsing the information in real time .
If you 're actually listening to the speaker , you can often write down just the germane points , so you do n't really need to write as fast as a typist can type .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where does your mom work?
I read a story a couple years ago about how they no longer teach shorthand to journalists in Britain, but that the UK had been the hold-out -- they haven't taught shorthand in American journalism schools in years.
I'm curious where your mom picked it up.
I don't even completely understand how shorthand works, but it sounds eminently useful.
(Then again, one mistake that note-takers often make is trying to write down everything that's said, which means they aren't really parsing the information in real time.
If you're actually listening to the speaker, you can often write down just the germane points, so you don't really need to write as fast as a typist can type.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30860598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858804</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>clemdoc</author>
	<datestamp>1264172400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you mail me an iPhone, I'll be glad to tell you, how long it took me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you mail me an iPhone , I 'll be glad to tell you , how long it took me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you mail me an iPhone, I'll be glad to tell you, how long it took me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30862650</id>
	<title>Totally agree, Jot was really bad...</title>
	<author>SuperKendall</author>
	<datestamp>1264193160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I also really liked Grafitti, and could never get Jot to work nearly as well.  It was one of the things that really pushed me off Palm devices earlier rather than later, even though I loved my Palm V...</p><p>As you said, the iPhone keyboard works really well - and as the article author said, I prefer to use it in portrait too.  Even though in theory the keys are smaller it's easier to type with both thumbs quickly for some reason.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I also really liked Grafitti , and could never get Jot to work nearly as well .
It was one of the things that really pushed me off Palm devices earlier rather than later , even though I loved my Palm V...As you said , the iPhone keyboard works really well - and as the article author said , I prefer to use it in portrait too .
Even though in theory the keys are smaller it 's easier to type with both thumbs quickly for some reason .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I also really liked Grafitti, and could never get Jot to work nearly as well.
It was one of the things that really pushed me off Palm devices earlier rather than later, even though I loved my Palm V...As you said, the iPhone keyboard works really well - and as the article author said, I prefer to use it in portrait too.
Even though in theory the keys are smaller it's easier to type with both thumbs quickly for some reason.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858590</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858554</id>
	<title>a true geek ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264170000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>... would have compared more than those few mainstream input methods. Particularly interesting: <a href="http://infohost.nmt.edu/~shipman/ergo/dsk.html" title="nmt.edu">Dvorak</a> [nmt.edu] keyboards and <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCuqt5cRd7w" title="youtube.com">Tikinotes, Swype</a> [youtube.com] and <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFvfWuBauHI" title="youtube.com">MessageEase</a> [youtube.com] for the iPhone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... would have compared more than those few mainstream input methods .
Particularly interesting : Dvorak [ nmt.edu ] keyboards and Tikinotes , Swype [ youtube.com ] and MessageEase [ youtube.com ] for the iPhone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... would have compared more than those few mainstream input methods.
Particularly interesting: Dvorak [nmt.edu] keyboards and Tikinotes, Swype [youtube.com] and MessageEase [youtube.com] for the iPhone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858970</id>
	<title>Re:a true geek ...</title>
	<author>Kozz</author>
	<datestamp>1264173420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>... would have compared more than those few <b>mainstream</b> input methods. Particularly interesting: Dvorak keyboards and Tikinotes, Swype and  MessageEase for the iPhone.</p></div><p>(emphasis mine)</p><p>Sorry, I don't think that word means what you think it means.Aside from Dvorak, I've never heard of the rest of them.  Is that because I'm not a bonafide member of the iPhone cult^H^H^H^Howners?</p><p>I've worked with lots of geeks, been to university, have a CS degree, but I've never actually SEEN a Dvorak keyboard.  Which isn't to say people don't use them, but it's got to represent a small fraction of 1\%.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... would have compared more than those few mainstream input methods .
Particularly interesting : Dvorak keyboards and Tikinotes , Swype and MessageEase for the iPhone .
( emphasis mine ) Sorry , I do n't think that word means what you think it means.Aside from Dvorak , I 've never heard of the rest of them .
Is that because I 'm not a bonafide member of the iPhone cult ^ H ^ H ^ H ^ Howners ? I 've worked with lots of geeks , been to university , have a CS degree , but I 've never actually SEEN a Dvorak keyboard .
Which is n't to say people do n't use them , but it 's got to represent a small fraction of 1 \ % .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ... would have compared more than those few mainstream input methods.
Particularly interesting: Dvorak keyboards and Tikinotes, Swype and  MessageEase for the iPhone.
(emphasis mine)Sorry, I don't think that word means what you think it means.Aside from Dvorak, I've never heard of the rest of them.
Is that because I'm not a bonafide member of the iPhone cult^H^H^H^Howners?I've worked with lots of geeks, been to university, have a CS degree, but I've never actually SEEN a Dvorak keyboard.
Which isn't to say people don't use them, but it's got to represent a small fraction of 1\%.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858554</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859120</id>
	<title>There's an app for that</title>
	<author>sarcaca</author>
	<datestamp>1264174320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seems like a natural fit would be to use the iPhone as the keyboard for the new Tablet.  Need a keyboard?  There's an app for that.  When you go with the iPhone as a keyboard option, you have to buy the anti-gravity/levitating option on the Tablet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seems like a natural fit would be to use the iPhone as the keyboard for the new Tablet .
Need a keyboard ?
There 's an app for that .
When you go with the iPhone as a keyboard option , you have to buy the anti-gravity/levitating option on the Tablet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seems like a natural fit would be to use the iPhone as the keyboard for the new Tablet.
Need a keyboard?
There's an app for that.
When you go with the iPhone as a keyboard option, you have to buy the anti-gravity/levitating option on the Tablet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30862810</id>
	<title>Graffiti didn't.  Jot did.</title>
	<author>SuperKendall</author>
	<datestamp>1264150860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I'm surprised that Palm Graffiti came in last place</i></p><p>Graffiti was not used. The vastly inferior Jot was used, because that's what Palm was forced to switch to at some point (patent issue I think).  I can easily believe Jot fell where it did in the test.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm surprised that Palm Graffiti came in last placeGraffiti was not used .
The vastly inferior Jot was used , because that 's what Palm was forced to switch to at some point ( patent issue I think ) .
I can easily believe Jot fell where it did in the test .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm surprised that Palm Graffiti came in last placeGraffiti was not used.
The vastly inferior Jot was used, because that's what Palm was forced to switch to at some point (patent issue I think).
I can easily believe Jot fell where it did in the test.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30868326</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1264245720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Qwerty is for pussies! (Dvorak too.)<br>Real men have XVLCWK layouts with 6 shift levels trough 3 mod keys:<br><a href="http://www.neo-layout.org/" title="neo-layout.org">http://www.neo-layout.org/</a> [neo-layout.org] (And it seems they have to be German. ^^)</p><p>Ok, <em>real</em> men use this: <a href="http://www.datahand.com/products/proii.htm" title="datahand.com">http://www.datahand.com/products/proii.htm</a> [datahand.com]<br>Mounted to this: <a href="http://rhythmemotion.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/photo0090.jpg" title="rhythmemotion.net">http://rhythmemotion.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/photo0090.jpg</a> [rhythmemotion.net]</p><p>But I guess <strong>real</strong> men would use a Matrix headjack <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-computer\_interface" title="wikipedia.org">BCI</a> [wikipedia.org] chair.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Qwerty is for pussies !
( Dvorak too .
) Real men have XVLCWK layouts with 6 shift levels trough 3 mod keys : http : //www.neo-layout.org/ [ neo-layout.org ] ( And it seems they have to be German .
^ ^ ) Ok , real men use this : http : //www.datahand.com/products/proii.htm [ datahand.com ] Mounted to this : http : //rhythmemotion.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/photo0090.jpg [ rhythmemotion.net ] But I guess real men would use a Matrix headjack BCI [ wikipedia.org ] chair .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Qwerty is for pussies!
(Dvorak too.
)Real men have XVLCWK layouts with 6 shift levels trough 3 mod keys:http://www.neo-layout.org/ [neo-layout.org] (And it seems they have to be German.
^^)Ok, real men use this: http://www.datahand.com/products/proii.htm [datahand.com]Mounted to this: http://rhythmemotion.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/photo0090.jpg [rhythmemotion.net]But I guess real men would use a Matrix headjack BCI [wikipedia.org] chair.
;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859066</id>
	<title>Larger keyboard?</title>
	<author>teh dave</author>
	<datestamp>1264173900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would like to point out HTC's Touch Pro 2 and Sony Ericsson's XPERIA X1, as two examples of one of the kinds of phone keyboards he has missed, the larger physical slide-out QWERTY keyboard. They are much easier to use than the Treo's tiny, fiddly keys, as the keyboard spans the entire width of the longer side of the phone as opposed to the shorter side. I would expect that many people would be quicker with the iPhone than with the Treo after equal practise at both, but then you try a larger physical keyboard like the ones offered by either of the two devices I just mentioned (or countless other devices).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would like to point out HTC 's Touch Pro 2 and Sony Ericsson 's XPERIA X1 , as two examples of one of the kinds of phone keyboards he has missed , the larger physical slide-out QWERTY keyboard .
They are much easier to use than the Treo 's tiny , fiddly keys , as the keyboard spans the entire width of the longer side of the phone as opposed to the shorter side .
I would expect that many people would be quicker with the iPhone than with the Treo after equal practise at both , but then you try a larger physical keyboard like the ones offered by either of the two devices I just mentioned ( or countless other devices ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would like to point out HTC's Touch Pro 2 and Sony Ericsson's XPERIA X1, as two examples of one of the kinds of phone keyboards he has missed, the larger physical slide-out QWERTY keyboard.
They are much easier to use than the Treo's tiny, fiddly keys, as the keyboard spans the entire width of the longer side of the phone as opposed to the shorter side.
I would expect that many people would be quicker with the iPhone than with the Treo after equal practise at both, but then you try a larger physical keyboard like the ones offered by either of the two devices I just mentioned (or countless other devices).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858924</id>
	<title>Where's shorthand?!</title>
	<author>cc1984\_</author>
	<datestamp>1264173180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, I know it's a dying art, but he put speeds up for the Palm Graffiti didn't he?!</p><p>I'm currently learning Teeline shorthand which I'm told gets speeds of around 120 words per minutes if you know what you're doing. Pitman on the other hand can reach a paper burning 300 words per minute, although you trade your sanity in for learning that.</p><p>Would completely change the results and put pen and paper up top.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , I know it 's a dying art , but he put speeds up for the Palm Graffiti did n't he ?
! I 'm currently learning Teeline shorthand which I 'm told gets speeds of around 120 words per minutes if you know what you 're doing .
Pitman on the other hand can reach a paper burning 300 words per minute , although you trade your sanity in for learning that.Would completely change the results and put pen and paper up top .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, I know it's a dying art, but he put speeds up for the Palm Graffiti didn't he?
!I'm currently learning Teeline shorthand which I'm told gets speeds of around 120 words per minutes if you know what you're doing.
Pitman on the other hand can reach a paper burning 300 words per minute, although you trade your sanity in for learning that.Would completely change the results and put pen and paper up top.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30861280</id>
	<title>Re:"...handwrite more than a bullet point..." ???</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264184820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd add that writing by hand is quiet too.  If you've been to a meeting where everyone is clacking away on their laptop you'll know what I mean.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd add that writing by hand is quiet too .
If you 've been to a meeting where everyone is clacking away on their laptop you 'll know what I mean .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd add that writing by hand is quiet too.
If you've been to a meeting where everyone is clacking away on their laptop you'll know what I mean.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859006</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859206</id>
	<title>APPLE HAS NOT ANNOUNCED ANYTHING</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264174800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why are people so stuck on this?</p><p>"In the run-up to everyone's favourite tablet?"</p><p>What are you talking about?  We don't know if apple has a tablet.  If they do, we don't know if it's going to be any good.</p><p>Yes, apple made the ipod and OSX is a pretty decent OS built off of unix.  But this same company made the apple newton and quicktime.</p><p>Steve Jobs is not some magical creature whose every creation is pure gold. After the ipod they've made a hojillion varieties of the same damn item until they released a multitouch interface and suddenly they are gods gift to hardware.</p><p>If I hear one more thing about apples Second-Coming-of-God-Damned-Jesus tablet my brain is going to explode in unfettered rage.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why are people so stuck on this ?
" In the run-up to everyone 's favourite tablet ?
" What are you talking about ?
We do n't know if apple has a tablet .
If they do , we do n't know if it 's going to be any good.Yes , apple made the ipod and OSX is a pretty decent OS built off of unix .
But this same company made the apple newton and quicktime.Steve Jobs is not some magical creature whose every creation is pure gold .
After the ipod they 've made a hojillion varieties of the same damn item until they released a multitouch interface and suddenly they are gods gift to hardware.If I hear one more thing about apples Second-Coming-of-God-Damned-Jesus tablet my brain is going to explode in unfettered rage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why are people so stuck on this?
"In the run-up to everyone's favourite tablet?
"What are you talking about?
We don't know if apple has a tablet.
If they do, we don't know if it's going to be any good.Yes, apple made the ipod and OSX is a pretty decent OS built off of unix.
But this same company made the apple newton and quicktime.Steve Jobs is not some magical creature whose every creation is pure gold.
After the ipod they've made a hojillion varieties of the same damn item until they released a multitouch interface and suddenly they are gods gift to hardware.If I hear one more thing about apples Second-Coming-of-God-Damned-Jesus tablet my brain is going to explode in unfettered rage.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30863906</id>
	<title>Re:Nokia 5800</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264156920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>His choices were pretty strange.  I'd have loved to see a slide out keyboard like the Motorola DROID.  Instead we get the Newton.</htmltext>
<tokenext>His choices were pretty strange .
I 'd have loved to see a slide out keyboard like the Motorola DROID .
Instead we get the Newton .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>His choices were pretty strange.
I'd have loved to see a slide out keyboard like the Motorola DROID.
Instead we get the Newton.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858674</id>
	<title>Re:A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys</title>
	<author>sslayer</author>
	<datestamp>1264171260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Imagine trying to use <i>photoshop</i> on a touch screen. All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger(s) that are doing the selecting. How stoooopid is that?</p></div><p>
That's the very thing I really HATE about capacitive touch-screens. All this blah blah blah about how much precision it has. What the heck do I mind its precision when I don't know where I've put my finger, since I cannot see what's behind it? Not to speak of the problems using a screen of these when you're wearing gloves and such.
</p><p>
This things are really stupid. I can get far more accuracy in my old Palm TX since I can use a stylus as thin as I want, my fingernail or just the reverse side of the BIC pen I'm using to write down on paper.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine trying to use photoshop on a touch screen .
All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger ( s ) that are doing the selecting .
How stoooopid is that ?
That 's the very thing I really HATE about capacitive touch-screens .
All this blah blah blah about how much precision it has .
What the heck do I mind its precision when I do n't know where I 've put my finger , since I can not see what 's behind it ?
Not to speak of the problems using a screen of these when you 're wearing gloves and such .
This things are really stupid .
I can get far more accuracy in my old Palm TX since I can use a stylus as thin as I want , my fingernail or just the reverse side of the BIC pen I 'm using to write down on paper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine trying to use photoshop on a touch screen.
All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger(s) that are doing the selecting.
How stoooopid is that?
That's the very thing I really HATE about capacitive touch-screens.
All this blah blah blah about how much precision it has.
What the heck do I mind its precision when I don't know where I've put my finger, since I cannot see what's behind it?
Not to speak of the problems using a screen of these when you're wearing gloves and such.
This things are really stupid.
I can get far more accuracy in my old Palm TX since I can use a stylus as thin as I want, my fingernail or just the reverse side of the BIC pen I'm using to write down on paper.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30862028</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>pj81381</author>
	<datestamp>1264189560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The actual words per minute are probably easier for most people to compare to. Here are Mr. Gyford's results:
</p><ul>
<li>Full sized QWERTY: 68.35 WPM</li>
<li>iPhone SW keyboard: 44.80 WPM</li>
<li>Treo HW keyboard: 41.05 WPM</li>
<li>Pen and paper: 39.82 WPM</li>
<li>Newton MessagePad: 23.81 WPM</li>
<li>Palm Graffiti: 18.02 WPM</li>
</ul><p>
His QWERTY typing speed is pretty decent. At this speed, input with QWERTY is about 1.53 times his second result with the iPhone SW keyboard.
</p><p>
I was also wondering if the iPhone input software uses auto-completion. This could account for why his second pass was noticeably better than his first, which averaged 36.73 WPM, as well as why his input speed was pretty decent.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The actual words per minute are probably easier for most people to compare to .
Here are Mr. Gyford 's results : Full sized QWERTY : 68.35 WPM iPhone SW keyboard : 44.80 WPM Treo HW keyboard : 41.05 WPM Pen and paper : 39.82 WPM Newton MessagePad : 23.81 WPM Palm Graffiti : 18.02 WPM His QWERTY typing speed is pretty decent .
At this speed , input with QWERTY is about 1.53 times his second result with the iPhone SW keyboard .
I was also wondering if the iPhone input software uses auto-completion .
This could account for why his second pass was noticeably better than his first , which averaged 36.73 WPM , as well as why his input speed was pretty decent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The actual words per minute are probably easier for most people to compare to.
Here are Mr. Gyford's results:

Full sized QWERTY: 68.35 WPM
iPhone SW keyboard: 44.80 WPM
Treo HW keyboard: 41.05 WPM
Pen and paper: 39.82 WPM
Newton MessagePad: 23.81 WPM
Palm Graffiti: 18.02 WPM

His QWERTY typing speed is pretty decent.
At this speed, input with QWERTY is about 1.53 times his second result with the iPhone SW keyboard.
I was also wondering if the iPhone input software uses auto-completion.
This could account for why his second pass was noticeably better than his first, which averaged 36.73 WPM, as well as why his input speed was pretty decent.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30862926</id>
	<title>Agree!  Palm Graffiti shouldn't be too slow</title>
	<author>KWTm</author>
	<datestamp>1264151520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I'm surprised that Palm Graffiti came in last place, especially by that big of a margin. I used a Palm Pilot extensively for several years, and I could "write" on my Palm Pilot much faster than I could write on pen and paper.</p></div></blockquote><p>Agree.  Palm Graffiti has a major advantage that is often overlooked: <em>you do not need to be looking at your input</em>.  Since all the letters are written one on top of the other, you don't need to shift your hand to the next letter position, or see when you have to start a new line, etc.</p><p>When I was talking to a person and taking notes, I'd have my eyes on the other person all the time while I stroked and poked my Palm.  Inevitably, after a while the person would say, "Are you taking down all of this without looking at the screen?"  If in a meeting taking notes, sometimes I'd have my Palm in my left hand, under the table, entering with my left thumb, and my right hand would be free.  (That was slower, though.)</p><p>It's a different story for the new Graffiti 2 that's on the new Palms, including my Palm Treo (yes it has a keypad, but I installed "Graffiti Anywhere" to access the Graffiti 2 "shortcut" symbol so I can put "shortcut-D-T-S" for the date/time stamp).  The Graffiti 2 strokes are supposedly more "intuitive" (see "user friendly" in the Microsoft dictionary, or "dumbed down" in an ordinary dictionary), but some of them use two strokes.  Even worse, it doesn't know which letter you want to enter until you have entered the second stroke!  I'm talking about the letter T (downstroke, then a separate horizontal stroke) and the letter i (downstroke, then a dot on top) and the letter L (downstroke, then nothing else).  So if I want to enter the letter T, I put a downstroke, and then a letter L appears.  Then I put a horizontal stroke, and the letter L is deleted (backspace) followed by the letter T.</p><p>However, the shortcut macro system aborts if you enter a non-existent shortcut.  No shortcut begins with "shortcut-D-L".  So if I want to enter "shortcut-D-T-S", I enter "shortcut-D" and then begin entering the letter T with a downstroke.  The letter L appears, the system aborts since I had just entered the non-existent "shortcut-D-L" macro, and even when I do the horizontal stroke and the letter L is replaced by T, it's too late.  This was the system on the Tungsten Turd that I bought and then quickly resold (forget the exact Tungsten model, but it had the sliding bottom that covered the Graffiti area --who thought this was a good idea again?).  My current Graffiti Anywhere on mt Treo 650 doesn't have that problem, thank goodness.  But I wish they could go back to the original Graffiti system again.  One stroke per letter, non-intuitive except for geeks --but who cares?  Everyone else will use the keyboard.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm surprised that Palm Graffiti came in last place , especially by that big of a margin .
I used a Palm Pilot extensively for several years , and I could " write " on my Palm Pilot much faster than I could write on pen and paper.Agree .
Palm Graffiti has a major advantage that is often overlooked : you do not need to be looking at your input .
Since all the letters are written one on top of the other , you do n't need to shift your hand to the next letter position , or see when you have to start a new line , etc.When I was talking to a person and taking notes , I 'd have my eyes on the other person all the time while I stroked and poked my Palm .
Inevitably , after a while the person would say , " Are you taking down all of this without looking at the screen ?
" If in a meeting taking notes , sometimes I 'd have my Palm in my left hand , under the table , entering with my left thumb , and my right hand would be free .
( That was slower , though .
) It 's a different story for the new Graffiti 2 that 's on the new Palms , including my Palm Treo ( yes it has a keypad , but I installed " Graffiti Anywhere " to access the Graffiti 2 " shortcut " symbol so I can put " shortcut-D-T-S " for the date/time stamp ) .
The Graffiti 2 strokes are supposedly more " intuitive " ( see " user friendly " in the Microsoft dictionary , or " dumbed down " in an ordinary dictionary ) , but some of them use two strokes .
Even worse , it does n't know which letter you want to enter until you have entered the second stroke !
I 'm talking about the letter T ( downstroke , then a separate horizontal stroke ) and the letter i ( downstroke , then a dot on top ) and the letter L ( downstroke , then nothing else ) .
So if I want to enter the letter T , I put a downstroke , and then a letter L appears .
Then I put a horizontal stroke , and the letter L is deleted ( backspace ) followed by the letter T.However , the shortcut macro system aborts if you enter a non-existent shortcut .
No shortcut begins with " shortcut-D-L " .
So if I want to enter " shortcut-D-T-S " , I enter " shortcut-D " and then begin entering the letter T with a downstroke .
The letter L appears , the system aborts since I had just entered the non-existent " shortcut-D-L " macro , and even when I do the horizontal stroke and the letter L is replaced by T , it 's too late .
This was the system on the Tungsten Turd that I bought and then quickly resold ( forget the exact Tungsten model , but it had the sliding bottom that covered the Graffiti area --who thought this was a good idea again ? ) .
My current Graffiti Anywhere on mt Treo 650 does n't have that problem , thank goodness .
But I wish they could go back to the original Graffiti system again .
One stroke per letter , non-intuitive except for geeks --but who cares ?
Everyone else will use the keyboard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm surprised that Palm Graffiti came in last place, especially by that big of a margin.
I used a Palm Pilot extensively for several years, and I could "write" on my Palm Pilot much faster than I could write on pen and paper.Agree.
Palm Graffiti has a major advantage that is often overlooked: you do not need to be looking at your input.
Since all the letters are written one on top of the other, you don't need to shift your hand to the next letter position, or see when you have to start a new line, etc.When I was talking to a person and taking notes, I'd have my eyes on the other person all the time while I stroked and poked my Palm.
Inevitably, after a while the person would say, "Are you taking down all of this without looking at the screen?
"  If in a meeting taking notes, sometimes I'd have my Palm in my left hand, under the table, entering with my left thumb, and my right hand would be free.
(That was slower, though.
)It's a different story for the new Graffiti 2 that's on the new Palms, including my Palm Treo (yes it has a keypad, but I installed "Graffiti Anywhere" to access the Graffiti 2 "shortcut" symbol so I can put "shortcut-D-T-S" for the date/time stamp).
The Graffiti 2 strokes are supposedly more "intuitive" (see "user friendly" in the Microsoft dictionary, or "dumbed down" in an ordinary dictionary), but some of them use two strokes.
Even worse, it doesn't know which letter you want to enter until you have entered the second stroke!
I'm talking about the letter T (downstroke, then a separate horizontal stroke) and the letter i (downstroke, then a dot on top) and the letter L (downstroke, then nothing else).
So if I want to enter the letter T, I put a downstroke, and then a letter L appears.
Then I put a horizontal stroke, and the letter L is deleted (backspace) followed by the letter T.However, the shortcut macro system aborts if you enter a non-existent shortcut.
No shortcut begins with "shortcut-D-L".
So if I want to enter "shortcut-D-T-S", I enter "shortcut-D" and then begin entering the letter T with a downstroke.
The letter L appears, the system aborts since I had just entered the non-existent "shortcut-D-L" macro, and even when I do the horizontal stroke and the letter L is replaced by T, it's too late.
This was the system on the Tungsten Turd that I bought and then quickly resold (forget the exact Tungsten model, but it had the sliding bottom that covered the Graffiti area --who thought this was a good idea again?).
My current Graffiti Anywhere on mt Treo 650 doesn't have that problem, thank goodness.
But I wish they could go back to the original Graffiti system again.
One stroke per letter, non-intuitive except for geeks --but who cares?
Everyone else will use the keyboard.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858772</id>
	<title>Re:A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264172160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you want to use Photoshop, buy yourself a stylus.</p><p>On the other hand, perhaps you've seen artists doing charcoal sketches?  You know, where they use that giant stick of charcoal (that obscures where they're working), and then they smudge it with, gasp, their fingers?</p><p>The finger isn't great for everything, but it certainly works fine for a lot of tasks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want to use Photoshop , buy yourself a stylus.On the other hand , perhaps you 've seen artists doing charcoal sketches ?
You know , where they use that giant stick of charcoal ( that obscures where they 're working ) , and then they smudge it with , gasp , their fingers ? The finger is n't great for everything , but it certainly works fine for a lot of tasks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want to use Photoshop, buy yourself a stylus.On the other hand, perhaps you've seen artists doing charcoal sketches?
You know, where they use that giant stick of charcoal (that obscures where they're working), and then they smudge it with, gasp, their fingers?The finger isn't great for everything, but it certainly works fine for a lot of tasks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30860598</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>BJ\_Covert\_Action</author>
	<datestamp>1264181520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Indeed. My mom works as an Administrative Assistant and has been doing so for more than 15 years now. She can write in shorthand faster than I can type (and I've written a novel and work on my computer extensively).  She can't beat her own typing speed, that's like trying to break the sound barrier, but she certainly outdoes most other folk's typing speeds. Incidentally I can text a helluva lot faster than her. That's my one source of communication pride...well, that and smoke signals.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed .
My mom works as an Administrative Assistant and has been doing so for more than 15 years now .
She can write in shorthand faster than I can type ( and I 've written a novel and work on my computer extensively ) .
She ca n't beat her own typing speed , that 's like trying to break the sound barrier , but she certainly outdoes most other folk 's typing speeds .
Incidentally I can text a helluva lot faster than her .
That 's my one source of communication pride...well , that and smoke signals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed.
My mom works as an Administrative Assistant and has been doing so for more than 15 years now.
She can write in shorthand faster than I can type (and I've written a novel and work on my computer extensively).
She can't beat her own typing speed, that's like trying to break the sound barrier, but she certainly outdoes most other folk's typing speeds.
Incidentally I can text a helluva lot faster than her.
That's my one source of communication pride...well, that and smoke signals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30864876</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>gyepi</author>
	<datestamp>1264162320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>By the way the odds of TFA don't add up to 1 either, as they should given all possibilities are covered: 1/500+1/750+1/75+1/50+1/300+1/200+1/75+1/100+1/10+1/20 = 0.2183*.
<br> <br>
Anyone ready to Dutch-book the Macworld fanboys?</htmltext>
<tokenext>By the way the odds of TFA do n't add up to 1 either , as they should given all possibilities are covered : 1/500 + 1/750 + 1/75 + 1/50 + 1/300 + 1/200 + 1/75 + 1/100 + 1/10 + 1/20 = 0.2183 * .
Anyone ready to Dutch-book the Macworld fanboys ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By the way the odds of TFA don't add up to 1 either, as they should given all possibilities are covered: 1/500+1/750+1/75+1/50+1/300+1/200+1/75+1/100+1/10+1/20 = 0.2183*.
Anyone ready to Dutch-book the Macworld fanboys?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858802</id>
	<title>Stylus and touch screen, please</title>
	<author>cthugha</author>
	<datestamp>1264172400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For me, text entry isn't that important a feature for a tablet; the mobile nature of the device makes it an unlikely choice of platform to generate documents of any length or complexity. Rather, the benefit of a tablet is the ability to consume or peruse data wherever I want.</p><p>To that end, I'm more interested in tools for tagging, noting up and generally scribbling on content generated elsewhere. Right now, I'll print drafts of documents just so I can have the freedom of leaning back in my chair or getting up and walking around while I review them, or putting them next to whatever (hard copy) source material I was using to create them to do side-by-side comparisons. Out of desktops, laptops and netbooks, no device lets me do that, and the screens on PDAs and smartphones are too small.</p><p>A screen that can take both stylus and touch input would likely fit the bill, with a virtual keyboard on the rare occasions I'd need it. We already have devices that handle extensive text entry in the conditions where that activity is best done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For me , text entry is n't that important a feature for a tablet ; the mobile nature of the device makes it an unlikely choice of platform to generate documents of any length or complexity .
Rather , the benefit of a tablet is the ability to consume or peruse data wherever I want.To that end , I 'm more interested in tools for tagging , noting up and generally scribbling on content generated elsewhere .
Right now , I 'll print drafts of documents just so I can have the freedom of leaning back in my chair or getting up and walking around while I review them , or putting them next to whatever ( hard copy ) source material I was using to create them to do side-by-side comparisons .
Out of desktops , laptops and netbooks , no device lets me do that , and the screens on PDAs and smartphones are too small.A screen that can take both stylus and touch input would likely fit the bill , with a virtual keyboard on the rare occasions I 'd need it .
We already have devices that handle extensive text entry in the conditions where that activity is best done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For me, text entry isn't that important a feature for a tablet; the mobile nature of the device makes it an unlikely choice of platform to generate documents of any length or complexity.
Rather, the benefit of a tablet is the ability to consume or peruse data wherever I want.To that end, I'm more interested in tools for tagging, noting up and generally scribbling on content generated elsewhere.
Right now, I'll print drafts of documents just so I can have the freedom of leaning back in my chair or getting up and walking around while I review them, or putting them next to whatever (hard copy) source material I was using to create them to do side-by-side comparisons.
Out of desktops, laptops and netbooks, no device lets me do that, and the screens on PDAs and smartphones are too small.A screen that can take both stylus and touch input would likely fit the bill, with a virtual keyboard on the rare occasions I'd need it.
We already have devices that handle extensive text entry in the conditions where that activity is best done.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858820</id>
	<title>Re:A keyboard's just a mouse with 101 keys</title>
	<author>imakemusic</author>
	<datestamp>1264172580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger(s) that are doing the selecting. How stoooopid is that?</p></div><p>It makes you wonder how Michaelangelo managed to paint so well, what with his brush covering up the painting all the time...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger ( s ) that are doing the selecting .
How stoooopid is that ? It makes you wonder how Michaelangelo managed to paint so well , what with his brush covering up the painting all the time.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All the areas you want to select are automatically obscured by the very finger(s) that are doing the selecting.
How stoooopid is that?It makes you wonder how Michaelangelo managed to paint so well, what with his brush covering up the painting all the time...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30861512</id>
	<title>Re:The iPhone virtual keyboard? Not a chance!</title>
	<author>ickleberry</author>
	<datestamp>1264186140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>He should have tried the Nokia E63 - it has a much better keyboard than the iPhone or Palm Treo</htmltext>
<tokenext>He should have tried the Nokia E63 - it has a much better keyboard than the iPhone or Palm Treo</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He should have tried the Nokia E63 - it has a much better keyboard than the iPhone or Palm Treo</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858888</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30862716</id>
	<title>Sorry, but it is faster</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264193520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have used Blackberry keyboards, and a variety of small pager keyboards in the past.  The iPhone keyboard IS faster.  There are a few reasons:</p><p>1) Really good predictive input corrects small mistakes.</p><p>2) Larger hit area.  This may seem counter-intuitive, but because the entire keyboard area is touched you actually have much larger "keys" to hit than on a physical mobile keyboard, which usually has very small keys.</p><p>3) No physical key travel.  On a virtual keyboard a letter is recognized as soon as you press, requiring no physical travel to complete a press.</p><p>4) Multitouch.  In conjunction with the previous factor, recognition of multiple presses means the system can be prepared to accept another key even before your finger leaves the previous key.</p><p>If you claim a physical keyboard is so much faster and he was just slow, by all means type in the sample text he posted and post your time for an accurate result with a keypad you know well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have used Blackberry keyboards , and a variety of small pager keyboards in the past .
The iPhone keyboard IS faster .
There are a few reasons : 1 ) Really good predictive input corrects small mistakes.2 ) Larger hit area .
This may seem counter-intuitive , but because the entire keyboard area is touched you actually have much larger " keys " to hit than on a physical mobile keyboard , which usually has very small keys.3 ) No physical key travel .
On a virtual keyboard a letter is recognized as soon as you press , requiring no physical travel to complete a press.4 ) Multitouch .
In conjunction with the previous factor , recognition of multiple presses means the system can be prepared to accept another key even before your finger leaves the previous key.If you claim a physical keyboard is so much faster and he was just slow , by all means type in the sample text he posted and post your time for an accurate result with a keypad you know well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have used Blackberry keyboards, and a variety of small pager keyboards in the past.
The iPhone keyboard IS faster.
There are a few reasons:1) Really good predictive input corrects small mistakes.2) Larger hit area.
This may seem counter-intuitive, but because the entire keyboard area is touched you actually have much larger "keys" to hit than on a physical mobile keyboard, which usually has very small keys.3) No physical key travel.
On a virtual keyboard a letter is recognized as soon as you press, requiring no physical travel to complete a press.4) Multitouch.
In conjunction with the previous factor, recognition of multiple presses means the system can be prepared to accept another key even before your finger leaves the previous key.If you claim a physical keyboard is so much faster and he was just slow, by all means type in the sample text he posted and post your time for an accurate result with a keypad you know well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858932</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30864866</id>
	<title>Re:Treo Keypads Are Fast</title>
	<author>SoupIsGoodFood\_42</author>
	<datestamp>1264162140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a Treo 600 for many years, yet I find the iPhone faster, especially in landscape mode. It took me a while to get used to it, though. The other thing is that I can type reasonably well on the iPhone with one hand -- I couldn't do that with the Treo. Not sure how different the 600 is to the 755.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a Treo 600 for many years , yet I find the iPhone faster , especially in landscape mode .
It took me a while to get used to it , though .
The other thing is that I can type reasonably well on the iPhone with one hand -- I could n't do that with the Treo .
Not sure how different the 600 is to the 755 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a Treo 600 for many years, yet I find the iPhone faster, especially in landscape mode.
It took me a while to get used to it, though.
The other thing is that I can type reasonably well on the iPhone with one hand -- I couldn't do that with the Treo.
Not sure how different the 600 is to the 755.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30868124</id>
	<title>pure text</title>
	<author>reiisi</author>
	<datestamp>1264241940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ergo, source code</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ergo , source code</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ergo, source code</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859006</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858724</id>
	<title>The Answer Is: It Depends!</title>
	<author>adamgolding</author>
	<datestamp>1264171740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This depends on the strings: you can handwrite many mathematical expressions more quickly than you can type them in most setups.  This is especially true for things with a lot of super/sub scripts.  It's *especially* true for symbols not in the character sets available to you.</p><p>Also, sometimes the same *content* can be recorded more quickly as handwritten math/logic than as typed strings.</p><p>Sometimes handwriting is faster, sometimes typing is faster.</p><p>Therefore, the fastest setup is one where you can switch between handwriting and typing seamlessly, such as on a tablet PC on some sort of stand situated like an easel with an external keyboard at elbow height, or at a desktop with a keyboard and graphics tabletin which case, for the monitor position, you don't have to compromise between what's good for your hands/arms and what's good for your eyes/neck/back.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This depends on the strings : you can handwrite many mathematical expressions more quickly than you can type them in most setups .
This is especially true for things with a lot of super/sub scripts .
It 's * especially * true for symbols not in the character sets available to you.Also , sometimes the same * content * can be recorded more quickly as handwritten math/logic than as typed strings.Sometimes handwriting is faster , sometimes typing is faster.Therefore , the fastest setup is one where you can switch between handwriting and typing seamlessly , such as on a tablet PC on some sort of stand situated like an easel with an external keyboard at elbow height , or at a desktop with a keyboard and graphics tabletin which case , for the monitor position , you do n't have to compromise between what 's good for your hands/arms and what 's good for your eyes/neck/back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This depends on the strings: you can handwrite many mathematical expressions more quickly than you can type them in most setups.
This is especially true for things with a lot of super/sub scripts.
It's *especially* true for symbols not in the character sets available to you.Also, sometimes the same *content* can be recorded more quickly as handwritten math/logic than as typed strings.Sometimes handwriting is faster, sometimes typing is faster.Therefore, the fastest setup is one where you can switch between handwriting and typing seamlessly, such as on a tablet PC on some sort of stand situated like an easel with an external keyboard at elbow height, or at a desktop with a keyboard and graphics tabletin which case, for the monitor position, you don't have to compromise between what's good for your hands/arms and what's good for your eyes/neck/back.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858696</id>
	<title>virtual keyboard</title>
	<author>necro81</author>
	<datestamp>1264171560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>A comment on one of the input methods the MacWorld article touched on: an on-screen virtual keyboard.  Unless you have some tactile response, an on-screen virtual keyboard almost requires you to look at it to see what you are typing.  However - and this is a point that the article author may not have fully grasped - being that it is a tablet and not a laptop, you're already going to be looking at the keyboard, because you are looking at the screen, because that's the usually the place you're looking at on a tablet computer.<br> <br>

This doesn't meant that I relish the notion of doing much writing on <i>any</i> tablet computer with a virtual keyboard.  But, it isn't as bad as, say, a laptop with a touchscreen top and bottom.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A comment on one of the input methods the MacWorld article touched on : an on-screen virtual keyboard .
Unless you have some tactile response , an on-screen virtual keyboard almost requires you to look at it to see what you are typing .
However - and this is a point that the article author may not have fully grasped - being that it is a tablet and not a laptop , you 're already going to be looking at the keyboard , because you are looking at the screen , because that 's the usually the place you 're looking at on a tablet computer .
This does n't meant that I relish the notion of doing much writing on any tablet computer with a virtual keyboard .
But , it is n't as bad as , say , a laptop with a touchscreen top and bottom .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A comment on one of the input methods the MacWorld article touched on: an on-screen virtual keyboard.
Unless you have some tactile response, an on-screen virtual keyboard almost requires you to look at it to see what you are typing.
However - and this is a point that the article author may not have fully grasped - being that it is a tablet and not a laptop, you're already going to be looking at the keyboard, because you are looking at the screen, because that's the usually the place you're looking at on a tablet computer.
This doesn't meant that I relish the notion of doing much writing on any tablet computer with a virtual keyboard.
But, it isn't as bad as, say, a laptop with a touchscreen top and bottom.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30862322</id>
	<title>Re:a true geek ...</title>
	<author>Seth Kriticos</author>
	<datestamp>1264191240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Another Dvorak typist here. Use it since a few years. Was touch typing QUERTY before, but long forget that one. Never regretted my decision, definitely an improvement. Besides it's obvious advantages, it's also useful to keep other people off your systems and keep an aura of mystery.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) And all modern platforms support it, so it's not really a limiting factor, at least not for application developers.</p><p>Ps: I don't care what others think, everyone has to make their own decisions. Don't want to convince anyone, just stating what worked out for me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Another Dvorak typist here .
Use it since a few years .
Was touch typing QUERTY before , but long forget that one .
Never regretted my decision , definitely an improvement .
Besides it 's obvious advantages , it 's also useful to keep other people off your systems and keep an aura of mystery .
: ) And all modern platforms support it , so it 's not really a limiting factor , at least not for application developers.Ps : I do n't care what others think , everyone has to make their own decisions .
Do n't want to convince anyone , just stating what worked out for me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another Dvorak typist here.
Use it since a few years.
Was touch typing QUERTY before, but long forget that one.
Never regretted my decision, definitely an improvement.
Besides it's obvious advantages, it's also useful to keep other people off your systems and keep an aura of mystery.
:) And all modern platforms support it, so it's not really a limiting factor, at least not for application developers.Ps: I don't care what others think, everyone has to make their own decisions.
Don't want to convince anyone, just stating what worked out for me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858554</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30868954</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, but it is faster</title>
	<author>YourExperiment</author>
	<datestamp>1264254900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>1) Really good predictive input corrects small mistakes.</p></div><p>Agreed. Is predictive input banned on devices with tactile keypads?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>2) Larger hit area. This may seem counter-intuitive</p></div><p>Counter-intuitive? Not at all, I completely agree on this point. Having a larger area is always better, so touch screen keyboards win on this count.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>3) No physical key travel.</p></div><p>This is one of the main reasons why touch screens are inferior. Tactile feedback allows increased typing speed, ask any touch typist.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>4) Multitouch.</p></div><p>Are you saying you can't physically press two keys at once on a physical keypad? However, the new "swipe" style text input apps for touch screens do look quite promising.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>If you claim a physical keyboard is so much faster and he was just slow, by all means type in the sample text he posted and post your time for an accurate result with a keypad you know well.</p></div><p>I would be happy to, but I always donate or recycle my old gadgets as soon as I'm done with them, so I no longer have any devices around with a physical keyboard (unless you count my trusty old IBM Model M). As I said in my original post, I actually own a touch screen phone at the moment, so I'm certainly not arguing this point from any vested interest. I'm happy with the trade-off in typing speed that comes from having a phone with a nice big screen for browsing the web.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) Really good predictive input corrects small mistakes.Agreed .
Is predictive input banned on devices with tactile keypads ? 2 ) Larger hit area .
This may seem counter-intuitiveCounter-intuitive ?
Not at all , I completely agree on this point .
Having a larger area is always better , so touch screen keyboards win on this count.3 ) No physical key travel.This is one of the main reasons why touch screens are inferior .
Tactile feedback allows increased typing speed , ask any touch typist.4 ) Multitouch.Are you saying you ca n't physically press two keys at once on a physical keypad ?
However , the new " swipe " style text input apps for touch screens do look quite promising.If you claim a physical keyboard is so much faster and he was just slow , by all means type in the sample text he posted and post your time for an accurate result with a keypad you know well.I would be happy to , but I always donate or recycle my old gadgets as soon as I 'm done with them , so I no longer have any devices around with a physical keyboard ( unless you count my trusty old IBM Model M ) .
As I said in my original post , I actually own a touch screen phone at the moment , so I 'm certainly not arguing this point from any vested interest .
I 'm happy with the trade-off in typing speed that comes from having a phone with a nice big screen for browsing the web .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) Really good predictive input corrects small mistakes.Agreed.
Is predictive input banned on devices with tactile keypads?2) Larger hit area.
This may seem counter-intuitiveCounter-intuitive?
Not at all, I completely agree on this point.
Having a larger area is always better, so touch screen keyboards win on this count.3) No physical key travel.This is one of the main reasons why touch screens are inferior.
Tactile feedback allows increased typing speed, ask any touch typist.4) Multitouch.Are you saying you can't physically press two keys at once on a physical keypad?
However, the new "swipe" style text input apps for touch screens do look quite promising.If you claim a physical keyboard is so much faster and he was just slow, by all means type in the sample text he posted and post your time for an accurate result with a keypad you know well.I would be happy to, but I always donate or recycle my old gadgets as soon as I'm done with them, so I no longer have any devices around with a physical keyboard (unless you count my trusty old IBM Model M).
As I said in my original post, I actually own a touch screen phone at the moment, so I'm certainly not arguing this point from any vested interest.
I'm happy with the trade-off in typing speed that comes from having a phone with a nice big screen for browsing the web.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30862716</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859262</id>
	<title>Re:a true geek ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264175040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I type Dvorak exclusively; I never learned qwerty. I was advised to take up dvorak becaues of a wrist injury I had at the time. I love it, it types very easily and I can't even imagine typing on that abomination of a qwerty keyboard. It's offensive. Then again, I learned on Dvorak to start with and I understand that the learning curve would keep people from switching to it. But the increase in efficiency is obvious. I can tell just by looking at people's hands. My friend types at least as fast as I can, probably faster, on qwerty, but his hands fly everywhere; I'm like "what the hell are you typing" but it's just that qwerty forces you to do that where as when I type dvorak my hards are more or less just sitting here chewing out words.<br><br>I don't think anyone could hand-write as fast as I (and many other fast typers) can type.  I can type 100+wpm, and many can type faster. With 5-letter words, that's 8 letters per second. There's just no way you could handwrite that fast, unless it was some kind of shorthand.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I type Dvorak exclusively ; I never learned qwerty .
I was advised to take up dvorak becaues of a wrist injury I had at the time .
I love it , it types very easily and I ca n't even imagine typing on that abomination of a qwerty keyboard .
It 's offensive .
Then again , I learned on Dvorak to start with and I understand that the learning curve would keep people from switching to it .
But the increase in efficiency is obvious .
I can tell just by looking at people 's hands .
My friend types at least as fast as I can , probably faster , on qwerty , but his hands fly everywhere ; I 'm like " what the hell are you typing " but it 's just that qwerty forces you to do that where as when I type dvorak my hards are more or less just sitting here chewing out words.I do n't think anyone could hand-write as fast as I ( and many other fast typers ) can type .
I can type 100 + wpm , and many can type faster .
With 5-letter words , that 's 8 letters per second .
There 's just no way you could handwrite that fast , unless it was some kind of shorthand .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I type Dvorak exclusively; I never learned qwerty.
I was advised to take up dvorak becaues of a wrist injury I had at the time.
I love it, it types very easily and I can't even imagine typing on that abomination of a qwerty keyboard.
It's offensive.
Then again, I learned on Dvorak to start with and I understand that the learning curve would keep people from switching to it.
But the increase in efficiency is obvious.
I can tell just by looking at people's hands.
My friend types at least as fast as I can, probably faster, on qwerty, but his hands fly everywhere; I'm like "what the hell are you typing" but it's just that qwerty forces you to do that where as when I type dvorak my hards are more or less just sitting here chewing out words.I don't think anyone could hand-write as fast as I (and many other fast typers) can type.
I can type 100+wpm, and many can type faster.
With 5-letter words, that's 8 letters per second.
There's just no way you could handwrite that fast, unless it was some kind of shorthand.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858554</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858648</id>
	<title>Re:"trumps"?</title>
	<author>Troy Roberts</author>
	<datestamp>1264170960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:</p><p>Main Entry: 2trump<br>Function: noun<br>Etymology: alteration of 1triumph<br>Date: 1529</p><p>1 a : a card of a suit any of whose cards will win over a card that is not of this suit --called also trump card b : the suit whose cards are <b>trumps</b> for a particular hand --often used in plural<br>2 : a decisive overriding factor or final resource --called also trump card<br>3 : a dependable and exemplary person</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From the Merriam-Webster dictionary : Main Entry : 2trumpFunction : nounEtymology : alteration of 1triumphDate : 15291 a : a card of a suit any of whose cards will win over a card that is not of this suit --called also trump card b : the suit whose cards are trumps for a particular hand --often used in plural2 : a decisive overriding factor or final resource --called also trump card3 : a dependable and exemplary person</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:Main Entry: 2trumpFunction: nounEtymology: alteration of 1triumphDate: 15291 a : a card of a suit any of whose cards will win over a card that is not of this suit --called also trump card b : the suit whose cards are trumps for a particular hand --often used in plural2 : a decisive overriding factor or final resource --called also trump card3 : a dependable and exemplary person</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858586</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30865120</id>
	<title>Re:Virtual keyboard not faster</title>
	<author>SoupIsGoodFood\_42</author>
	<datestamp>1264164300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly why is a tactical keyboard always faster? Where did you get this fact from? You haven't really given any reasoning or evidence, unlike the guy in the article.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly why is a tactical keyboard always faster ?
Where did you get this fact from ?
You have n't really given any reasoning or evidence , unlike the guy in the article .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly why is a tactical keyboard always faster?
Where did you get this fact from?
You haven't really given any reasoning or evidence, unlike the guy in the article.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858932</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30862124</id>
	<title>Re:The Answer Is: It Depends!</title>
	<author>tool462</author>
	<datestamp>1264190040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Indeed.  Back in College/Grad school I would type up all my labs, but leave an inch or so gap so I could hand-write the equations in after I printed it out.  It was a hell of a lot better than that equation editor built into Word...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed .
Back in College/Grad school I would type up all my labs , but leave an inch or so gap so I could hand-write the equations in after I printed it out .
It was a hell of a lot better than that equation editor built into Word.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed.
Back in College/Grad school I would type up all my labs, but leave an inch or so gap so I could hand-write the equations in after I printed it out.
It was a hell of a lot better than that equation editor built into Word...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30861090</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>hardaker</author>
	<datestamp>1264183860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have a comment on your signature, sir...
<p>
<i>Laws are like sausages, it's best not to watch them being made</i>

</p><p>It's probably worth stating that it's also best not to eat them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a comment on your signature , sir.. . Laws are like sausages , it 's best not to watch them being made It 's probably worth stating that it 's also best not to eat them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a comment on your signature, sir...

Laws are like sausages, it's best not to watch them being made

It's probably worth stating that it's also best not to eat them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30860226</id>
	<title>Re:What's everyone's favorite tablet?</title>
	<author>jo\_ham</author>
	<datestamp>1264179780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see sarcasm escapes you. That is exactly what that three word phrase means in this context.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see sarcasm escapes you .
That is exactly what that three word phrase means in this context .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see sarcasm escapes you.
That is exactly what that three word phrase means in this context.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859184</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859006</id>
	<title>"...handwrite more than a bullet point..." ???</title>
	<author>DoctorNathaniel</author>
	<datestamp>1264173540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sorry, but is the submitter fscking insane? I rely heavily on handwritten notes all the time. So does every college student and scientist that I know.  Note that I'm talking about extremely tech-savvy people here, who often DO own an iPhone... but they are fundamentally useless for taking notes.</p><p>Taking notes, of course, is not the only writing one does, but it's a pretty important thing.  Writing serves a a communication medium to others, but equally serves as expansion of short- and long-term memory for ourselves.  I have yet to meet any GUI interface that has the flexibility of a pad of paper:</p><p>- Effortless data entry.<br>- Figures, mathematics or other non-ASCII input are faster than any other technique (and likely to remain so)<br>- No learning curve (for people past 6th grade)<br>- Bookmarking, fast page finding.<br>- No limit to page-space viewable at one time<br>
&nbsp; -Needs no recharging, syncing<br>- Not a target for theft<br>- Light and comfortable in the hand<br>- Cheap, reliable components<br>- Easily backed up by photocopier or scanner</p><p>The only downside, for me, is it's a little slow for pure-text entry, and it's sometimes hard to read by own sloppy writing. But that's just user skill, not the fault of the technology.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sorry , but is the submitter fscking insane ?
I rely heavily on handwritten notes all the time .
So does every college student and scientist that I know .
Note that I 'm talking about extremely tech-savvy people here , who often DO own an iPhone... but they are fundamentally useless for taking notes.Taking notes , of course , is not the only writing one does , but it 's a pretty important thing .
Writing serves a a communication medium to others , but equally serves as expansion of short- and long-term memory for ourselves .
I have yet to meet any GUI interface that has the flexibility of a pad of paper : - Effortless data entry.- Figures , mathematics or other non-ASCII input are faster than any other technique ( and likely to remain so ) - No learning curve ( for people past 6th grade ) - Bookmarking , fast page finding.- No limit to page-space viewable at one time   -Needs no recharging , syncing- Not a target for theft- Light and comfortable in the hand- Cheap , reliable components- Easily backed up by photocopier or scannerThe only downside , for me , is it 's a little slow for pure-text entry , and it 's sometimes hard to read by own sloppy writing .
But that 's just user skill , not the fault of the technology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sorry, but is the submitter fscking insane?
I rely heavily on handwritten notes all the time.
So does every college student and scientist that I know.
Note that I'm talking about extremely tech-savvy people here, who often DO own an iPhone... but they are fundamentally useless for taking notes.Taking notes, of course, is not the only writing one does, but it's a pretty important thing.
Writing serves a a communication medium to others, but equally serves as expansion of short- and long-term memory for ourselves.
I have yet to meet any GUI interface that has the flexibility of a pad of paper:- Effortless data entry.- Figures, mathematics or other non-ASCII input are faster than any other technique (and likely to remain so)- No learning curve (for people past 6th grade)- Bookmarking, fast page finding.- No limit to page-space viewable at one time
  -Needs no recharging, syncing- Not a target for theft- Light and comfortable in the hand- Cheap, reliable components- Easily backed up by photocopier or scannerThe only downside, for me, is it's a little slow for pure-text entry, and it's sometimes hard to read by own sloppy writing.
But that's just user skill, not the fault of the technology.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30865462</id>
	<title>Everything else???</title>
	<author>ChunderDownunder</author>
	<datestamp>1264166460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a basic phone with a slide out 12-key numeric keypad, you insensitive clod!</p><p>I'd like the author to benchmark 1-digit typing (i.e. thumb). Are the speeds for texting *that* much faster with a fancy shmancy onscreen keyboard?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a basic phone with a slide out 12-key numeric keypad , you insensitive clod ! I 'd like the author to benchmark 1-digit typing ( i.e .
thumb ) . Are the speeds for texting * that * much faster with a fancy shmancy onscreen keyboard ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a basic phone with a slide out 12-key numeric keypad, you insensitive clod!I'd like the author to benchmark 1-digit typing (i.e.
thumb). Are the speeds for texting *that* much faster with a fancy shmancy onscreen keyboard?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859164</id>
	<title>Re:"trumps"?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264174500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These are Top Trumps.<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top\_Trumps" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top\_Trumps</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>Great game played it all the way through Primary School</p><p>Capture = knockers</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These are Top Trumps.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top \ _Trumps [ wikipedia.org ] Great game played it all the way through Primary SchoolCapture = knockers</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These are Top Trumps.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top\_Trumps [wikipedia.org]Great game played it all the way through Primary SchoolCapture = knockers</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858586</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858778</id>
	<title>iPhone BTstack Keyboard</title>
	<author>DanTheManMS</author>
	<datestamp>1264172220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you're really concerned with typing efficiency on an iPhone, look into <a href="http://code.google.com/p/btstack/wiki/iPhoneBluetooth" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">BTstack</a> [google.com] which is a homebrew Bluetooth stack available to jailbroken users.  BTstack is just the stack itself, though other applications have added support for it in other ways, the most relevant here being "BTstack keyboard" which is available for $5 from the Cydia store.  Connect any Bluetooth keyboard and you're good to go.  Oh, and it works in any app on the phone, not just a single app that you'd have to copy and paste text out of.
<br> <br>
Now granted, the mental image of arriving to a meeting with *just* a keyboard and your phone is rather amusing, but the point is that it's possible.  This stack is also used in another program that connects Bluetooth mice (using a mouse cursor library), and various game emulators have begun adding support for Bluetooth connetivity with the Wii remote.
<br> <br>
Personally I find that the standard iPhone keyboard is actually fairly efficient once you get the hang of it, though part of it is the copious amount of autocorrect that the system applies.  If I had to manually correct every error I made, I would be cursing the lack of physical buttons to the end of time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're really concerned with typing efficiency on an iPhone , look into BTstack [ google.com ] which is a homebrew Bluetooth stack available to jailbroken users .
BTstack is just the stack itself , though other applications have added support for it in other ways , the most relevant here being " BTstack keyboard " which is available for $ 5 from the Cydia store .
Connect any Bluetooth keyboard and you 're good to go .
Oh , and it works in any app on the phone , not just a single app that you 'd have to copy and paste text out of .
Now granted , the mental image of arriving to a meeting with * just * a keyboard and your phone is rather amusing , but the point is that it 's possible .
This stack is also used in another program that connects Bluetooth mice ( using a mouse cursor library ) , and various game emulators have begun adding support for Bluetooth connetivity with the Wii remote .
Personally I find that the standard iPhone keyboard is actually fairly efficient once you get the hang of it , though part of it is the copious amount of autocorrect that the system applies .
If I had to manually correct every error I made , I would be cursing the lack of physical buttons to the end of time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're really concerned with typing efficiency on an iPhone, look into BTstack [google.com] which is a homebrew Bluetooth stack available to jailbroken users.
BTstack is just the stack itself, though other applications have added support for it in other ways, the most relevant here being "BTstack keyboard" which is available for $5 from the Cydia store.
Connect any Bluetooth keyboard and you're good to go.
Oh, and it works in any app on the phone, not just a single app that you'd have to copy and paste text out of.
Now granted, the mental image of arriving to a meeting with *just* a keyboard and your phone is rather amusing, but the point is that it's possible.
This stack is also used in another program that connects Bluetooth mice (using a mouse cursor library), and various game emulators have begun adding support for Bluetooth connetivity with the Wii remote.
Personally I find that the standard iPhone keyboard is actually fairly efficient once you get the hang of it, though part of it is the copious amount of autocorrect that the system applies.
If I had to manually correct every error I made, I would be cursing the lack of physical buttons to the end of time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859118</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264174320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Probably my fastest method of input is typing on a full-sized keyboard. However on a mobile device, my fastest method of input is by writing. On paper, however, my writing in unreadable. Even by me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably my fastest method of input is typing on a full-sized keyboard .
However on a mobile device , my fastest method of input is by writing .
On paper , however , my writing in unreadable .
Even by me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably my fastest method of input is typing on a full-sized keyboard.
However on a mobile device, my fastest method of input is by writing.
On paper, however, my writing in unreadable.
Even by me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858746</id>
	<title>Keyboard Projector Thingie</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264171920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>A while ago, I saw a keyboard that was more projector/sensor than physical keyboard.  The projector would idsplay a keyboard on a flat(hopefully) surface, and then you would type by pressing the "keys" (key displayed on flat surface).  So, instead of having to carry around a full keyboard, you would just need the projector/sensor.
I would probably go with this as the "I need something to be able to type my novel on" type of device, but also have the touch screen to use for less demanding typing jobs, such as an occasional URL.
I know, it's probably patented by someone else, which would be an obstactle for Apple to work out, but the aim here is to have something that can be effective, while not needing a .</htmltext>
<tokenext>A while ago , I saw a keyboard that was more projector/sensor than physical keyboard .
The projector would idsplay a keyboard on a flat ( hopefully ) surface , and then you would type by pressing the " keys " ( key displayed on flat surface ) .
So , instead of having to carry around a full keyboard , you would just need the projector/sensor .
I would probably go with this as the " I need something to be able to type my novel on " type of device , but also have the touch screen to use for less demanding typing jobs , such as an occasional URL .
I know , it 's probably patented by someone else , which would be an obstactle for Apple to work out , but the aim here is to have something that can be effective , while not needing a .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A while ago, I saw a keyboard that was more projector/sensor than physical keyboard.
The projector would idsplay a keyboard on a flat(hopefully) surface, and then you would type by pressing the "keys" (key displayed on flat surface).
So, instead of having to carry around a full keyboard, you would just need the projector/sensor.
I would probably go with this as the "I need something to be able to type my novel on" type of device, but also have the touch screen to use for less demanding typing jobs, such as an occasional URL.
I know, it's probably patented by someone else, which would be an obstactle for Apple to work out, but the aim here is to have something that can be effective, while not needing a .</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859184</id>
	<title>What's everyone's favorite tablet?</title>
	<author>crazybilly</author>
	<datestamp>1264174680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Everyone's favorite tablet"? Really?
<p>
I think a more accurate description would have been "the tablet that as far as 90\% of the population is concerned is only a rumor of something will end up being more expensive than I can afford anyways, so they really haven't bothered to care."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Everyone 's favorite tablet " ?
Really ? I think a more accurate description would have been " the tablet that as far as 90 \ % of the population is concerned is only a rumor of something will end up being more expensive than I can afford anyways , so they really have n't bothered to care .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Everyone's favorite tablet"?
Really?

I think a more accurate description would have been "the tablet that as far as 90\% of the population is concerned is only a rumor of something will end up being more expensive than I can afford anyways, so they really haven't bothered to care.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30868422</id>
	<title>Re:Obligatory Dvorak advocacy</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1264247100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For German users, I recommend the even <em>much</em> better NEO 2.0 layout:<br><a href="http://www.neo-layout.org/" title="neo-layout.org">http://www.neo-layout.org/</a> [neo-layout.org]<br>I&rsquo;m using it for a couple of years now, and love it. It&rsquo; just a sad state of Slashdot, that it does not support proper Unicode.</p><p>Also, for WSAD... Is there a OS out there without a layout switcher?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For German users , I recommend the even much better NEO 2.0 layout : http : //www.neo-layout.org/ [ neo-layout.org ] I    m using it for a couple of years now , and love it .
It    just a sad state of Slashdot , that it does not support proper Unicode.Also , for WSAD... Is there a OS out there without a layout switcher ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For German users, I recommend the even much better NEO 2.0 layout:http://www.neo-layout.org/ [neo-layout.org]I’m using it for a couple of years now, and love it.
It’ just a sad state of Slashdot, that it does not support proper Unicode.Also, for WSAD... Is there a OS out there without a layout switcher?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858570</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30861240</id>
	<title>Re:a true geek ...</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1264184580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to, but I gave it up when I got a job in IT and found myself using 20-30 different computers during the course of the day, with only my own office computer being set to Dvorak still. In that situation, you're just getting yourself confused-- you always end up typing gibberish for the first minute! So I switched back to Qwerty.</p><p>I think you'll find that most of the benefit of Dvorak isn't the fact that the layout is different, but that it's been re-learned *correctly*. Most people who have problems, or develop wrist stress, using Qwerty aren't typing with the correct home row. Learning Dvorak is one way of solving that problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to , but I gave it up when I got a job in IT and found myself using 20-30 different computers during the course of the day , with only my own office computer being set to Dvorak still .
In that situation , you 're just getting yourself confused-- you always end up typing gibberish for the first minute !
So I switched back to Qwerty.I think you 'll find that most of the benefit of Dvorak is n't the fact that the layout is different , but that it 's been re-learned * correctly * .
Most people who have problems , or develop wrist stress , using Qwerty are n't typing with the correct home row .
Learning Dvorak is one way of solving that problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to, but I gave it up when I got a job in IT and found myself using 20-30 different computers during the course of the day, with only my own office computer being set to Dvorak still.
In that situation, you're just getting yourself confused-- you always end up typing gibberish for the first minute!
So I switched back to Qwerty.I think you'll find that most of the benefit of Dvorak isn't the fact that the layout is different, but that it's been re-learned *correctly*.
Most people who have problems, or develop wrist stress, using Qwerty aren't typing with the correct home row.
Learning Dvorak is one way of solving that problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30860240</id>
	<title>Re:The Answer Is: It Depends!</title>
	<author>The Assistant</author>
	<datestamp>1264179840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, I would think that the best thing to do would be to include some sort of basic input strategy built-in, and allow for additional input deviced to be connected based on the user's preferences.  Also, use bluetooth, or other wireless method of having those devices communicate with the tablet.  This way, if you need a specific device, buy it as an accessory.  (Of course those device need to be made/brought to market in a timely manner).  This way you don't add an excessive amount to the price of the initial system, and only pay for the devices you deem necessary (or as "can't do without").</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , I would think that the best thing to do would be to include some sort of basic input strategy built-in , and allow for additional input deviced to be connected based on the user 's preferences .
Also , use bluetooth , or other wireless method of having those devices communicate with the tablet .
This way , if you need a specific device , buy it as an accessory .
( Of course those device need to be made/brought to market in a timely manner ) .
This way you do n't add an excessive amount to the price of the initial system , and only pay for the devices you deem necessary ( or as " ca n't do without " ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, I would think that the best thing to do would be to include some sort of basic input strategy built-in, and allow for additional input deviced to be connected based on the user's preferences.
Also, use bluetooth, or other wireless method of having those devices communicate with the tablet.
This way, if you need a specific device, buy it as an accessory.
(Of course those device need to be made/brought to market in a timely manner).
This way you don't add an excessive amount to the price of the initial system, and only pay for the devices you deem necessary (or as "can't do without").</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858548</id>
	<title>Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>Rah'Dick</author>
	<datestamp>1264170000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The chart looks to me as if Mr. Gyford is typing relatively slow on a full-sized keyboard, compared to the iPhone. Last I remembered, I could not use more than two fingers at once on that tiny screen. I'd be interested in how long it takes the average slashdotter to type his example text.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The chart looks to me as if Mr. Gyford is typing relatively slow on a full-sized keyboard , compared to the iPhone .
Last I remembered , I could not use more than two fingers at once on that tiny screen .
I 'd be interested in how long it takes the average slashdotter to type his example text .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The chart looks to me as if Mr. Gyford is typing relatively slow on a full-sized keyboard, compared to the iPhone.
Last I remembered, I could not use more than two fingers at once on that tiny screen.
I'd be interested in how long it takes the average slashdotter to type his example text.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858624</id>
	<title>Re:"trumps"?</title>
	<author>nudeatom</author>
	<datestamp>1264170780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Never played 'Top Trumps' then?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Never played 'Top Trumps ' then ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Never played 'Top Trumps' then?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858586</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30868480</id>
	<title>Re:Obligatory Dvorak advocacy</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1264247880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What OS are you using? I don&rsquo;t know one without a layout/language switcher.</p><p>MS DOS perhaps? If that abomination still counts as an OS...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What OS are you using ?
I don    t know one without a layout/language switcher.MS DOS perhaps ?
If that abomination still counts as an OS.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What OS are you using?
I don’t know one without a layout/language switcher.MS DOS perhaps?
If that abomination still counts as an OS...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858876</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859350</id>
	<title>Nokia 5800</title>
	<author>mdwh2</author>
	<datestamp>1264175580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Indeed. I have the 5800, which has a virtual keyboard so would also come out second place. But as well as the option for touch, it also comes with a stylus, which I find even quicker (plus you can use the mini virtual keyboard, which lets you still see most of the rest of the screen). It's a shame he didn't do that - but sadly it seems he, like most the media, only cares about comparing the almighty Iphone.</p><p>Finger touch is useful, but I find it odd that the stylus has seemingly gone so out of fashion. And regarding capacitive touch screens, I agree - the 5800 doesn't do multitouch, but I'd prefer the accuracy over complex gestures I'm not likely to use ("one mouse button is simpler", remember Apple fans?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed .
I have the 5800 , which has a virtual keyboard so would also come out second place .
But as well as the option for touch , it also comes with a stylus , which I find even quicker ( plus you can use the mini virtual keyboard , which lets you still see most of the rest of the screen ) .
It 's a shame he did n't do that - but sadly it seems he , like most the media , only cares about comparing the almighty Iphone.Finger touch is useful , but I find it odd that the stylus has seemingly gone so out of fashion .
And regarding capacitive touch screens , I agree - the 5800 does n't do multitouch , but I 'd prefer the accuracy over complex gestures I 'm not likely to use ( " one mouse button is simpler " , remember Apple fans ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed.
I have the 5800, which has a virtual keyboard so would also come out second place.
But as well as the option for touch, it also comes with a stylus, which I find even quicker (plus you can use the mini virtual keyboard, which lets you still see most of the rest of the screen).
It's a shame he didn't do that - but sadly it seems he, like most the media, only cares about comparing the almighty Iphone.Finger touch is useful, but I find it odd that the stylus has seemingly gone so out of fashion.
And regarding capacitive touch screens, I agree - the 5800 doesn't do multitouch, but I'd prefer the accuracy over complex gestures I'm not likely to use ("one mouse button is simpler", remember Apple fans?
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858674</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30862100</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>Derek Pomery</author>
	<datestamp>1264189920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Professional typists could have typed his example text in, what, a little over a minute?"</p><p>Well. I had to go back and correct myself at least once, but I was maxing out at about my top speed trying his text.</p><p>1222 characters in 2:35 ~ 95wpm personally.</p><p>Sounds like you're suggesting a professional could manage 244wpm.<br>I'm a bit skeptical.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Professional typists could have typed his example text in , what , a little over a minute ? " Well .
I had to go back and correct myself at least once , but I was maxing out at about my top speed trying his text.1222 characters in 2 : 35 ~ 95wpm personally.Sounds like you 're suggesting a professional could manage 244wpm.I 'm a bit skeptical .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Professional typists could have typed his example text in, what, a little over a minute?"Well.
I had to go back and correct myself at least once, but I was maxing out at about my top speed trying his text.1222 characters in 2:35 ~ 95wpm personally.Sounds like you're suggesting a professional could manage 244wpm.I'm a bit skeptical.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858890</id>
	<title>Re:a true geek ...</title>
	<author>adolf</author>
	<datestamp>1264173060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks for the tip.  I just installed a Swype beta on my Droid (not in the marketplace; Google it), and it's an interesting thing that seems to work very well with every mostly common word that I tried, and at least initially, seems quite fast.</p><p>(It did, unsurprisingly, fall on its face when I tried to enter "antidisestablishmenterianism," however.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks for the tip .
I just installed a Swype beta on my Droid ( not in the marketplace ; Google it ) , and it 's an interesting thing that seems to work very well with every mostly common word that I tried , and at least initially , seems quite fast .
( It did , unsurprisingly , fall on its face when I tried to enter " antidisestablishmenterianism , " however .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks for the tip.
I just installed a Swype beta on my Droid (not in the marketplace; Google it), and it's an interesting thing that seems to work very well with every mostly common word that I tried, and at least initially, seems quite fast.
(It did, unsurprisingly, fall on its face when I tried to enter "antidisestablishmenterianism," however.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858554</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858952</id>
	<title>Typing and Writing Speeds</title>
	<author>Cassini2</author>
	<datestamp>1264173300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sometimes I wonder how much we have forgotten.  The advantage of a good computer keyboard is that a secretary, and even a programmer, should be able to touch type.  They can type a long passage of text, without looking at the keys.  If you can do this, your typing speed is way faster than someone that has to look at notes, and then look back at the keyboard.
</p><p>Further, the advantage of handwriting was that you could write far faster than you could type.  That was the whole point of script and shorthand.  With shorthand, you can write as fast as someone speaks, and people can speak very fast. Today, no one teaches shorthand, and many schools omit cursive script.
</p><p>In a few more years, someone will patent writing with a pen on a tablet with special symbols that makes handwriting faster.  Only, it won't be called shorthand<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sometimes I wonder how much we have forgotten .
The advantage of a good computer keyboard is that a secretary , and even a programmer , should be able to touch type .
They can type a long passage of text , without looking at the keys .
If you can do this , your typing speed is way faster than someone that has to look at notes , and then look back at the keyboard .
Further , the advantage of handwriting was that you could write far faster than you could type .
That was the whole point of script and shorthand .
With shorthand , you can write as fast as someone speaks , and people can speak very fast .
Today , no one teaches shorthand , and many schools omit cursive script .
In a few more years , someone will patent writing with a pen on a tablet with special symbols that makes handwriting faster .
Only , it wo n't be called shorthand .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sometimes I wonder how much we have forgotten.
The advantage of a good computer keyboard is that a secretary, and even a programmer, should be able to touch type.
They can type a long passage of text, without looking at the keys.
If you can do this, your typing speed is way faster than someone that has to look at notes, and then look back at the keyboard.
Further, the advantage of handwriting was that you could write far faster than you could type.
That was the whole point of script and shorthand.
With shorthand, you can write as fast as someone speaks, and people can speak very fast.
Today, no one teaches shorthand, and many schools omit cursive script.
In a few more years, someone will patent writing with a pen on a tablet with special symbols that makes handwriting faster.
Only, it won't be called shorthand ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30860492</id>
	<title>Re:"...handwrite more than a bullet point..." ???</title>
	<author>nlawalker</author>
	<datestamp>1264181040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I definitely understand the need for handwritten notes when drawings or mathematics input is required, but typing in an app like OneNote does offer many advantages:</p><p>-First and foremost, for standard text, typing. I type around 100 wpm, and even my slow handwriting is chickenscratch. Handwriting being "a little slow" is a massive understatement for anyone who can touch-type.<br>-Model is based on a set of notebooks: easy to organize how you like.<br>-Supports an invisible sharing/versioning system: put a notebook on a share and access it from anywhere, even simultaneously, and changes are all synced and nothing is lost, even if they are are made offline.<br>-Physical bookmarks functionality is beaten by tagging, which not only allows you to mark specific paragraphs in specific pages, but classify them as well. One kind of bookmark is even a checkbox that can be checked/unchecked. Plus, the app offers a sorted/filtered list of all tags: want to see all unchecked boxes or all stars in every notebook? Takes two or three clicks. You can have to-dos scattered everywhere and bring them up all in the same pane. Comes out of the box with tons of tags defined and you can define your own. Highlighting counts as tagging as well.<br>-Can be backed up digitally (saved in a number of formats), emailed and/or printed.<br>-Storage is a snap: A OneNote notebook is a folder full of OneNote files. Obviously, since you're not working with paper, there's no real physical storage limitation.</p><p>If you've got a tablet, OneNote natively supports ink as well, and will do OCR on it so you can include the image in text search or extract the text from it, as well as on any other image you care to paste into it.</p><p>OneNote is an app that doesn't sound like it has a ton of groundbreaking features, but they all come together and are presented in such a way that makes OneNote much more powerful than something like Notepad++.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I definitely understand the need for handwritten notes when drawings or mathematics input is required , but typing in an app like OneNote does offer many advantages : -First and foremost , for standard text , typing .
I type around 100 wpm , and even my slow handwriting is chickenscratch .
Handwriting being " a little slow " is a massive understatement for anyone who can touch-type.-Model is based on a set of notebooks : easy to organize how you like.-Supports an invisible sharing/versioning system : put a notebook on a share and access it from anywhere , even simultaneously , and changes are all synced and nothing is lost , even if they are are made offline.-Physical bookmarks functionality is beaten by tagging , which not only allows you to mark specific paragraphs in specific pages , but classify them as well .
One kind of bookmark is even a checkbox that can be checked/unchecked .
Plus , the app offers a sorted/filtered list of all tags : want to see all unchecked boxes or all stars in every notebook ?
Takes two or three clicks .
You can have to-dos scattered everywhere and bring them up all in the same pane .
Comes out of the box with tons of tags defined and you can define your own .
Highlighting counts as tagging as well.-Can be backed up digitally ( saved in a number of formats ) , emailed and/or printed.-Storage is a snap : A OneNote notebook is a folder full of OneNote files .
Obviously , since you 're not working with paper , there 's no real physical storage limitation.If you 've got a tablet , OneNote natively supports ink as well , and will do OCR on it so you can include the image in text search or extract the text from it , as well as on any other image you care to paste into it.OneNote is an app that does n't sound like it has a ton of groundbreaking features , but they all come together and are presented in such a way that makes OneNote much more powerful than something like Notepad + + .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I definitely understand the need for handwritten notes when drawings or mathematics input is required, but typing in an app like OneNote does offer many advantages:-First and foremost, for standard text, typing.
I type around 100 wpm, and even my slow handwriting is chickenscratch.
Handwriting being "a little slow" is a massive understatement for anyone who can touch-type.-Model is based on a set of notebooks: easy to organize how you like.-Supports an invisible sharing/versioning system: put a notebook on a share and access it from anywhere, even simultaneously, and changes are all synced and nothing is lost, even if they are are made offline.-Physical bookmarks functionality is beaten by tagging, which not only allows you to mark specific paragraphs in specific pages, but classify them as well.
One kind of bookmark is even a checkbox that can be checked/unchecked.
Plus, the app offers a sorted/filtered list of all tags: want to see all unchecked boxes or all stars in every notebook?
Takes two or three clicks.
You can have to-dos scattered everywhere and bring them up all in the same pane.
Comes out of the box with tons of tags defined and you can define your own.
Highlighting counts as tagging as well.-Can be backed up digitally (saved in a number of formats), emailed and/or printed.-Storage is a snap: A OneNote notebook is a folder full of OneNote files.
Obviously, since you're not working with paper, there's no real physical storage limitation.If you've got a tablet, OneNote natively supports ink as well, and will do OCR on it so you can include the image in text search or extract the text from it, as well as on any other image you care to paste into it.OneNote is an app that doesn't sound like it has a ton of groundbreaking features, but they all come together and are presented in such a way that makes OneNote much more powerful than something like Notepad++.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859006</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858586</id>
	<title>"trumps"?</title>
	<author>horatio</author>
	<datestamp>1264170420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>of course the Qwerty keyboard comes up trumps</p></div><p>Not to nitpick, but what the hell are "trumps"?  AFAIK, there is no plural form of "trump".  The idiom I believe you were looking for was "...comes up aces" - which even in context seems like a stretch to find a phrase synonymous with "is the winner" or "comes out on top"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>of course the Qwerty keyboard comes up trumpsNot to nitpick , but what the hell are " trumps " ?
AFAIK , there is no plural form of " trump " .
The idiom I believe you were looking for was " ...comes up aces " - which even in context seems like a stretch to find a phrase synonymous with " is the winner " or " comes out on top "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>of course the Qwerty keyboard comes up trumpsNot to nitpick, but what the hell are "trumps"?
AFAIK, there is no plural form of "trump".
The idiom I believe you were looking for was "...comes up aces" - which even in context seems like a stretch to find a phrase synonymous with "is the winner" or "comes out on top"
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30861222</id>
	<title>Re:Virtual keyboard not faster</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264184580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My guess is he's just not that good of a touch-typist.  Before I sold my Treo, I did comparisons with it and the iPhone after several months of use, and there was no contest there, either.  I was about 80\% faster on the treo, and about three times faster than that on a real keyboard.  But not everybody types that fast, so if you suck at it, the numbers will change.</p><p>This also predates the substantially more usable landscape keyboard on the iphone, which is large enough to allow the same sort of two-thumb typing style I used with the treo.  A re-test today might find the treo and the iphone a closer match, but the ability to use touch to align with letters is a large advantage.  On the other hand, the iPhone's prediction and error correction get to be pretty reliable once trained, which makes up somewhat for the inability to tell exactly what key you're hitting.  All things being equal, i'm sure that the treo keyboard would win.  But they're not-- once you learn just how fudgy you can be on the iPhone, and it learns the words you use and stops putting "duck you" in your text messages, the software compensates substantially for the disadvantages the virtual keyboard has.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My guess is he 's just not that good of a touch-typist .
Before I sold my Treo , I did comparisons with it and the iPhone after several months of use , and there was no contest there , either .
I was about 80 \ % faster on the treo , and about three times faster than that on a real keyboard .
But not everybody types that fast , so if you suck at it , the numbers will change.This also predates the substantially more usable landscape keyboard on the iphone , which is large enough to allow the same sort of two-thumb typing style I used with the treo .
A re-test today might find the treo and the iphone a closer match , but the ability to use touch to align with letters is a large advantage .
On the other hand , the iPhone 's prediction and error correction get to be pretty reliable once trained , which makes up somewhat for the inability to tell exactly what key you 're hitting .
All things being equal , i 'm sure that the treo keyboard would win .
But they 're not-- once you learn just how fudgy you can be on the iPhone , and it learns the words you use and stops putting " duck you " in your text messages , the software compensates substantially for the disadvantages the virtual keyboard has .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My guess is he's just not that good of a touch-typist.
Before I sold my Treo, I did comparisons with it and the iPhone after several months of use, and there was no contest there, either.
I was about 80\% faster on the treo, and about three times faster than that on a real keyboard.
But not everybody types that fast, so if you suck at it, the numbers will change.This also predates the substantially more usable landscape keyboard on the iphone, which is large enough to allow the same sort of two-thumb typing style I used with the treo.
A re-test today might find the treo and the iphone a closer match, but the ability to use touch to align with letters is a large advantage.
On the other hand, the iPhone's prediction and error correction get to be pretty reliable once trained, which makes up somewhat for the inability to tell exactly what key you're hitting.
All things being equal, i'm sure that the treo keyboard would win.
But they're not-- once you learn just how fudgy you can be on the iPhone, and it learns the words you use and stops putting "duck you" in your text messages, the software compensates substantially for the disadvantages the virtual keyboard has.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858932</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30861994</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>mugurel</author>
	<datestamp>1264189320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You might be surprised! It took this average slashdotter 4.00 minutes to type the fucking text!</htmltext>
<tokenext>You might be surprised !
It took this average slashdotter 4.00 minutes to type the fucking text !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You might be surprised!
It took this average slashdotter 4.00 minutes to type the fucking text!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30860262</id>
	<title>Re:a true geek ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264179900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Should take anyone who's con<b>S</b>cious about two or three weeks to s<b>W</b>i<b>C</b>th to Dvorak and become comfortable.</p></div><p>You must be in the early parts of week two then?</p><p>I joke, I joke!</p><p>On a serious note, it took me about 1 month to switch to Dvorak, and then another month before my Dvorak typing speed surpassed my old Qwerty typing speed.  The funny thing is I can't type in Qwerty anymore unless I physically look at the keyboard.  Dvorak is what is intuitive to me now.</p><p>I've never been a touch-typist, so when I learned Dvorak I had to become one.  But, if I glance at the keyboard and make an conscious effort to type in Qwerty, then I can type in Qwerty again without any problem at a decent speed.  But as soon as i look away from the keyboard, about 3 words later I automatically switch to Dvorak.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Should take anyone who 's conScious about two or three weeks to sWiCth to Dvorak and become comfortable.You must be in the early parts of week two then ? I joke , I joke ! On a serious note , it took me about 1 month to switch to Dvorak , and then another month before my Dvorak typing speed surpassed my old Qwerty typing speed .
The funny thing is I ca n't type in Qwerty anymore unless I physically look at the keyboard .
Dvorak is what is intuitive to me now.I 've never been a touch-typist , so when I learned Dvorak I had to become one .
But , if I glance at the keyboard and make an conscious effort to type in Qwerty , then I can type in Qwerty again without any problem at a decent speed .
But as soon as i look away from the keyboard , about 3 words later I automatically switch to Dvorak .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Should take anyone who's conScious about two or three weeks to sWiCth to Dvorak and become comfortable.You must be in the early parts of week two then?I joke, I joke!On a serious note, it took me about 1 month to switch to Dvorak, and then another month before my Dvorak typing speed surpassed my old Qwerty typing speed.
The funny thing is I can't type in Qwerty anymore unless I physically look at the keyboard.
Dvorak is what is intuitive to me now.I've never been a touch-typist, so when I learned Dvorak I had to become one.
But, if I glance at the keyboard and make an conscious effort to type in Qwerty, then I can type in Qwerty again without any problem at a decent speed.
But as soon as i look away from the keyboard, about 3 words later I automatically switch to Dvorak.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30869030</id>
	<title>Re:Palm Graffiti</title>
	<author>konohitowa</author>
	<datestamp>1264255560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps I'm missing something here, but the technological input methods *all* beat out actual writing speeds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps I 'm missing something here , but the technological input methods * all * beat out actual writing speeds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps I'm missing something here, but the technological input methods *all* beat out actual writing speeds.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859030</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858732</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>ceoyoyo</author>
	<datestamp>1264171800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>75 or so wpm isn't a world record or anything, but it's probably quite a bit faster than the average person can type, and very respectable.</p><p>His iPhone speed of 40 wpm is pretty fantastic, but the minimal finger movement and not needing to hit the keys hard can make up for the extra fingers you get to use on a full size keyboard.  I'm even more impressed by his Treo speed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>75 or so wpm is n't a world record or anything , but it 's probably quite a bit faster than the average person can type , and very respectable.His iPhone speed of 40 wpm is pretty fantastic , but the minimal finger movement and not needing to hit the keys hard can make up for the extra fingers you get to use on a full size keyboard .
I 'm even more impressed by his Treo speed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>75 or so wpm isn't a world record or anything, but it's probably quite a bit faster than the average person can type, and very respectable.His iPhone speed of 40 wpm is pretty fantastic, but the minimal finger movement and not needing to hit the keys hard can make up for the extra fingers you get to use on a full size keyboard.
I'm even more impressed by his Treo speed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859708</id>
	<title>Re:a true geek ...</title>
	<author>bdcrazy</author>
	<datestamp>1264177320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And then spend the rest of their life in frustration when every other computer they touch doesn't work right or having to reconfigure them back and forth if that is even possible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And then spend the rest of their life in frustration when every other computer they touch does n't work right or having to reconfigure them back and forth if that is even possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And then spend the rest of their life in frustration when every other computer they touch doesn't work right or having to reconfigure them back and forth if that is even possible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858590</id>
	<title>iphone vs. graffiti</title>
	<author>stokessd</author>
	<datestamp>1264170420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to be lightning fast with the original graffiti, very close to my speed on the iPhone.  But Palm went and changed it (I know legal reasons etc) and it got slow and sucky.  The best part of graffiti was that you could take notes without looking at the device.  I would think the original graffiti would be much faster than it is on that table, or they got a newbie to do the graffiti writing.</p><p>The iPhone keyboard works amazingly well.  I saw the preview demo of the phone in 2007and I thought that soft keyboard was full of fail (30+ touch points in the size of two postage stamps-c'mon), but there's enough heuristics behind it that it actually works really well.  I'm way faster on the iPhone keyboard than I am on a crackberry keyboard.</p><p>Sheldon</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to be lightning fast with the original graffiti , very close to my speed on the iPhone .
But Palm went and changed it ( I know legal reasons etc ) and it got slow and sucky .
The best part of graffiti was that you could take notes without looking at the device .
I would think the original graffiti would be much faster than it is on that table , or they got a newbie to do the graffiti writing.The iPhone keyboard works amazingly well .
I saw the preview demo of the phone in 2007and I thought that soft keyboard was full of fail ( 30 + touch points in the size of two postage stamps-c'mon ) , but there 's enough heuristics behind it that it actually works really well .
I 'm way faster on the iPhone keyboard than I am on a crackberry keyboard.Sheldon</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to be lightning fast with the original graffiti, very close to my speed on the iPhone.
But Palm went and changed it (I know legal reasons etc) and it got slow and sucky.
The best part of graffiti was that you could take notes without looking at the device.
I would think the original graffiti would be much faster than it is on that table, or they got a newbie to do the graffiti writing.The iPhone keyboard works amazingly well.
I saw the preview demo of the phone in 2007and I thought that soft keyboard was full of fail (30+ touch points in the size of two postage stamps-c'mon), but there's enough heuristics behind it that it actually works really well.
I'm way faster on the iPhone keyboard than I am on a crackberry keyboard.Sheldon</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30868232</id>
	<title>*Everybody*'s favorite?</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1264244220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In the run-up to everyone's favourite tablet,</p></div><p>It does not even exist yet. It will be just a tablet. And about 3\% of the population will actually care.</p><p>Way to spin up the reality distortion bubble.<br>I <em>hate</em> fanbois! (They are essentially, free marketing. [And often, some of them are actually working for marketing.])</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the run-up to everyone 's favourite tablet,It does not even exist yet .
It will be just a tablet .
And about 3 \ % of the population will actually care.Way to spin up the reality distortion bubble.I hate fanbois !
( They are essentially , free marketing .
[ And often , some of them are actually working for marketing .
] )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the run-up to everyone's favourite tablet,It does not even exist yet.
It will be just a tablet.
And about 3\% of the population will actually care.Way to spin up the reality distortion bubble.I hate fanbois!
(They are essentially, free marketing.
[And often, some of them are actually working for marketing.
])
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858876</id>
	<title>Re:Obligatory Dvorak advocacy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264173000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I tried a Dvorak keyboard once, but I hated having to take my hand away from the mouse to press W and S when gaming. Much like Linux, I don't think it's ready for the mainstream yet...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I tried a Dvorak keyboard once , but I hated having to take my hand away from the mouse to press W and S when gaming .
Much like Linux , I do n't think it 's ready for the mainstream yet.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tried a Dvorak keyboard once, but I hated having to take my hand away from the mouse to press W and S when gaming.
Much like Linux, I don't think it's ready for the mainstream yet...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858570</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859542</id>
	<title>Re:a true geek ...</title>
	<author>LordSnooty</author>
	<datestamp>1264176480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Should take anyone who's concious about two or three weeks to smith to Dvorak and become comfortable.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Should take anyone who 's concious about two or three weeks to smith to Dvorak and become comfortable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Should take anyone who's concious about two or three weeks to smith to Dvorak and become comfortable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30863026</id>
	<title>Re:Virtual keyboard not faster</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264152300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, where are the Droids and HTCs, which actually have decent full QWERTY slider (hardware) keyboards and aren't a *2004* (ancient!) Treo 650 that's barely more than 2 inches wide?</p><p>There's no way a virtual keyboard beats those recent hardware slider keyboards. The size of the recent sliders is much more appropriate for thumb pecking than that smartphone-style, 2.3 inch wide Treo 650 ( <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treo\_650" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treo\_650</a> [wikipedia.org] ).</p><p>Most sliders have a keyboard that is at least 4 inches wide, such as the AT&amp;T HTC Fuze in my hand right now, which is a 4" wide VGA-- not even as wide as most WVGA models. (btw, in case you didn't know, iPhone is only Half-VGA @ 320x480)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , where are the Droids and HTCs , which actually have decent full QWERTY slider ( hardware ) keyboards and are n't a * 2004 * ( ancient !
) Treo 650 that 's barely more than 2 inches wide ? There 's no way a virtual keyboard beats those recent hardware slider keyboards .
The size of the recent sliders is much more appropriate for thumb pecking than that smartphone-style , 2.3 inch wide Treo 650 ( http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treo \ _650 [ wikipedia.org ] ) .Most sliders have a keyboard that is at least 4 inches wide , such as the AT&amp;T HTC Fuze in my hand right now , which is a 4 " wide VGA-- not even as wide as most WVGA models .
( btw , in case you did n't know , iPhone is only Half-VGA @ 320x480 )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, where are the Droids and HTCs, which actually have decent full QWERTY slider (hardware) keyboards and aren't a *2004* (ancient!
) Treo 650 that's barely more than 2 inches wide?There's no way a virtual keyboard beats those recent hardware slider keyboards.
The size of the recent sliders is much more appropriate for thumb pecking than that smartphone-style, 2.3 inch wide Treo 650 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treo\_650 [wikipedia.org] ).Most sliders have a keyboard that is at least 4 inches wide, such as the AT&amp;T HTC Fuze in my hand right now, which is a 4" wide VGA-- not even as wide as most WVGA models.
(btw, in case you didn't know, iPhone is only Half-VGA @ 320x480)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858932</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30865424</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264166220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words\_per\_minute</p><p>The typing speed of the author is about 68 words per minute, in his own example.  That is near the top of what Wikipedia lists as the average professional typist.   120wpm is listed as an upper bound without citation, and even at that speed its 1.8 minutes, not a little over a minute.  The world record typist at their peak burst speed could get it done in a minute<br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typing</p><p>I think the critical thing here is though that the original author timed himself, and didn't rely on his feeling about what could be done and where.  Humans are not clocks and our perception of time may vary in relation to the cognitive intensity of the activity.</p><p>So maybe it is subjective on who does the typing/writing, but your post is even more subjective since it seems to be mostly how long you guess things would take by other typist/writers who you have never timed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words \ _per \ _minuteThe typing speed of the author is about 68 words per minute , in his own example .
That is near the top of what Wikipedia lists as the average professional typist .
120wpm is listed as an upper bound without citation , and even at that speed its 1.8 minutes , not a little over a minute .
The world record typist at their peak burst speed could get it done in a minutehttp : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TypingI think the critical thing here is though that the original author timed himself , and did n't rely on his feeling about what could be done and where .
Humans are not clocks and our perception of time may vary in relation to the cognitive intensity of the activity.So maybe it is subjective on who does the typing/writing , but your post is even more subjective since it seems to be mostly how long you guess things would take by other typist/writers who you have never timed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words\_per\_minuteThe typing speed of the author is about 68 words per minute, in his own example.
That is near the top of what Wikipedia lists as the average professional typist.
120wpm is listed as an upper bound without citation, and even at that speed its 1.8 minutes, not a little over a minute.
The world record typist at their peak burst speed could get it done in a minutehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TypingI think the critical thing here is though that the original author timed himself, and didn't rely on his feeling about what could be done and where.
Humans are not clocks and our perception of time may vary in relation to the cognitive intensity of the activity.So maybe it is subjective on who does the typing/writing, but your post is even more subjective since it seems to be mostly how long you guess things would take by other typist/writers who you have never timed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858654</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858888</id>
	<title>The iPhone virtual keyboard? Not a chance!</title>
	<author>VShael</author>
	<datestamp>1264173000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've had the "pleasure" of using this for about a year now. It's a terrible interface.<br>It takes an appreciable amount of time for each keypress to be acknowledged by the system.<br>And if you try to type quickly, without waiting for the device to catch up, you'll very soon be touch typing and hoping like hell you haven't made a mistake or run out the memory buffer.<br>And god help you if haven't disabled to the autocorrect feature, which has suggested some truly astonishing word replacements in the last 12 months.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've had the " pleasure " of using this for about a year now .
It 's a terrible interface.It takes an appreciable amount of time for each keypress to be acknowledged by the system.And if you try to type quickly , without waiting for the device to catch up , you 'll very soon be touch typing and hoping like hell you have n't made a mistake or run out the memory buffer.And god help you if have n't disabled to the autocorrect feature , which has suggested some truly astonishing word replacements in the last 12 months .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've had the "pleasure" of using this for about a year now.
It's a terrible interface.It takes an appreciable amount of time for each keypress to be acknowledged by the system.And if you try to type quickly, without waiting for the device to catch up, you'll very soon be touch typing and hoping like hell you haven't made a mistake or run out the memory buffer.And god help you if haven't disabled to the autocorrect feature, which has suggested some truly astonishing word replacements in the last 12 months.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858780</id>
	<title>Subjective</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264172220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One of the more subjective articles I've read in a while...Speed of typing will be directly proportional to the length of time you have spent using the particular gadget.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the more subjective articles I 've read in a while...Speed of typing will be directly proportional to the length of time you have spent using the particular gadget .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the more subjective articles I've read in a while...Speed of typing will be directly proportional to the length of time you have spent using the particular gadget.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30860532</id>
	<title>Sadly it fails on one vital point for me</title>
	<author>samael</author>
	<datestamp>1264181160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ability to read it later.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ability to read it later .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ability to read it later.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859006</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858570</id>
	<title>Obligatory Dvorak advocacy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264170240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's not what you'd call a rich data set, and of course the Qwerty keyboard comes up trumps</p></div><p>I of course have to mention the Dvorak layout.  I encourage you to try it.  Your hands might thank you (and fall in love), and if not you can always go back rather easily.  See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak\_Simplified\_Keyboard" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak\_Simplified\_Keyboard</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>Also, for some experimental geekery, trying to find out whether it's all the shit it's made out to be, see <a href="http://klausler.com/evolved.html" title="klausler.com">http://klausler.com/evolved.html</a> [klausler.com]</p><p>That's it.  Thank you for listening.  My hands thank me for listening way back when, too<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not what you 'd call a rich data set , and of course the Qwerty keyboard comes up trumpsI of course have to mention the Dvorak layout .
I encourage you to try it .
Your hands might thank you ( and fall in love ) , and if not you can always go back rather easily .
See http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak \ _Simplified \ _Keyboard [ wikipedia.org ] Also , for some experimental geekery , trying to find out whether it 's all the shit it 's made out to be , see http : //klausler.com/evolved.html [ klausler.com ] That 's it .
Thank you for listening .
My hands thank me for listening way back when , too ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not what you'd call a rich data set, and of course the Qwerty keyboard comes up trumpsI of course have to mention the Dvorak layout.
I encourage you to try it.
Your hands might thank you (and fall in love), and if not you can always go back rather easily.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak\_Simplified\_Keyboard [wikipedia.org]Also, for some experimental geekery, trying to find out whether it's all the shit it's made out to be, see http://klausler.com/evolved.html [klausler.com]That's it.
Thank you for listening.
My hands thank me for listening way back when, too ;)
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858964</id>
	<title>Re:"trumps"?</title>
	<author>beelsebob</author>
	<datestamp>1264173360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Plural trumps refers to the plural cards that are all trump cards in a deck during a game of (for example) bridge.</p><p>Bob</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Plural trumps refers to the plural cards that are all trump cards in a deck during a game of ( for example ) bridge.Bob</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Plural trumps refers to the plural cards that are all trump cards in a deck during a game of (for example) bridge.Bob</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858586</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30862384</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>socrplayr813</author>
	<datestamp>1264191600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to be a reasonably fast typer when I was in school, but less so these days because I don't type continuous text like that very often.  Nearly everything I type is either a short message to a friend or bottlenecked by my thought processes.  I just tried it out and I came in at about 2:45 typing at typical speed for me.  If I tried to go fast, I could maybe shave up to 15 seconds off that, but that's still probably nothing spectacular.</p><p>I imagine I'm faster than a random non-computer person, but younger kids and more hardcore computer folks will most likely beat me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to be a reasonably fast typer when I was in school , but less so these days because I do n't type continuous text like that very often .
Nearly everything I type is either a short message to a friend or bottlenecked by my thought processes .
I just tried it out and I came in at about 2 : 45 typing at typical speed for me .
If I tried to go fast , I could maybe shave up to 15 seconds off that , but that 's still probably nothing spectacular.I imagine I 'm faster than a random non-computer person , but younger kids and more hardcore computer folks will most likely beat me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to be a reasonably fast typer when I was in school, but less so these days because I don't type continuous text like that very often.
Nearly everything I type is either a short message to a friend or bottlenecked by my thought processes.
I just tried it out and I came in at about 2:45 typing at typical speed for me.
If I tried to go fast, I could maybe shave up to 15 seconds off that, but that's still probably nothing spectacular.I imagine I'm faster than a random non-computer person, but younger kids and more hardcore computer folks will most likely beat me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30868442</id>
	<title>Re:iphone vs. graffiti</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1264247280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obligatory Maddox link: <a href="http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone" title="thebestpag...iverse.net">http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone</a> [thebestpag...iverse.net]<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obligatory Maddox link : http : //thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi ? u = iphone [ thebestpag...iverse.net ] ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obligatory Maddox link: http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone [thebestpag...iverse.net] ;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858590</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859030</id>
	<title>Palm Graffiti</title>
	<author>Logical Zebra</author>
	<datestamp>1264173660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm surprised that Palm Graffiti came in last place, especially by that big of a margin.  I used a Palm Pilot extensively for several years, and I could "write" on my Palm Pilot much faster than I could write on pen and paper.</p><p>It took a few weeks to get used to it, but after you learned Graffiti well enough, you could actually "write" pretty fast with it.  The test behind TFA apparently used a <em>novice</em> to test Palm's Graffiti.  A Palm Pilot veteran would have been able to write in Graffiti at speeds nearer to actual writing, and maybe faster.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm surprised that Palm Graffiti came in last place , especially by that big of a margin .
I used a Palm Pilot extensively for several years , and I could " write " on my Palm Pilot much faster than I could write on pen and paper.It took a few weeks to get used to it , but after you learned Graffiti well enough , you could actually " write " pretty fast with it .
The test behind TFA apparently used a novice to test Palm 's Graffiti .
A Palm Pilot veteran would have been able to write in Graffiti at speeds nearer to actual writing , and maybe faster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm surprised that Palm Graffiti came in last place, especially by that big of a margin.
I used a Palm Pilot extensively for several years, and I could "write" on my Palm Pilot much faster than I could write on pen and paper.It took a few weeks to get used to it, but after you learned Graffiti well enough, you could actually "write" pretty fast with it.
The test behind TFA apparently used a novice to test Palm's Graffiti.
A Palm Pilot veteran would have been able to write in Graffiti at speeds nearer to actual writing, and maybe faster.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858654</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264171080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's the problem with this sort of comparison - it's completely subjective. Until pretty recently I simply had no reason to use pen and paper, but used a keyboard all the time, so my typing speed was respectable but my writing speed was atrocious. However, I have recently forced myself to rediscover the wonders of writing by hand, and I know I could write with pen and paper faster than plenty of people can type. Professional typists could have typed his example text in, what, a little over a minute? People who need to keep notes professionally, PAs or scribes or whatever, could probably get it written in about the same time. I think keyboards are logically bound to be slightly faster, but if you think pen and paper is slow you've never seen my girlfriend write in a hurry. Of course, a keyboard tends to produce fairly readable text, but that's a different (but related) issue...</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the problem with this sort of comparison - it 's completely subjective .
Until pretty recently I simply had no reason to use pen and paper , but used a keyboard all the time , so my typing speed was respectable but my writing speed was atrocious .
However , I have recently forced myself to rediscover the wonders of writing by hand , and I know I could write with pen and paper faster than plenty of people can type .
Professional typists could have typed his example text in , what , a little over a minute ?
People who need to keep notes professionally , PAs or scribes or whatever , could probably get it written in about the same time .
I think keyboards are logically bound to be slightly faster , but if you think pen and paper is slow you 've never seen my girlfriend write in a hurry .
Of course , a keyboard tends to produce fairly readable text , but that 's a different ( but related ) issue.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the problem with this sort of comparison - it's completely subjective.
Until pretty recently I simply had no reason to use pen and paper, but used a keyboard all the time, so my typing speed was respectable but my writing speed was atrocious.
However, I have recently forced myself to rediscover the wonders of writing by hand, and I know I could write with pen and paper faster than plenty of people can type.
Professional typists could have typed his example text in, what, a little over a minute?
People who need to keep notes professionally, PAs or scribes or whatever, could probably get it written in about the same time.
I think keyboards are logically bound to be slightly faster, but if you think pen and paper is slow you've never seen my girlfriend write in a hurry.
Of course, a keyboard tends to produce fairly readable text, but that's a different (but related) issue...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859244</id>
	<title>68 WPM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264174920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>He wrote at 65 words per minute on the QWERTY keyboard. IMHO that is quite slow, someone who known touch would easily beat the iPhone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>He wrote at 65 words per minute on the QWERTY keyboard .
IMHO that is quite slow , someone who known touch would easily beat the iPhone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He wrote at 65 words per minute on the QWERTY keyboard.
IMHO that is quite slow, someone who known touch would easily beat the iPhone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858932</id>
	<title>Virtual keyboard not faster</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264173240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>the iPhone virtual keyboard came in a surprisingly close second... This probably matches most people's experience</p></div><p>Not at all. There is no way the iPhone keyboard can possibly be as fast to use as a physical qwerty keypad. I can only imagine that there's something sub-optimal about the Treo keyboard (having never tried it myself). Alternatively, perhaps the author hasn't used his Treo for a while, whereas he's well-practised on the iPhone at the moment.</p><p>Don't get me wrong, I think virtual keyboards on touch screens are a wonderful innovation, and I personally would never buy a device with a physical keyboard, due to the extra bulk and weight it engenders in the device. At the end of the day, I read stuff on my phone a lot more often than I enter data, so I want the device optimised for viewing and portability rather than speed of text entry.</p><p>But that doesn't change the fact that a tactile keyboard is quicker than a virtual one. Perhaps the "swipe" style virtual keyboards that are now appearing will turn this around.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the iPhone virtual keyboard came in a surprisingly close second... This probably matches most people 's experienceNot at all .
There is no way the iPhone keyboard can possibly be as fast to use as a physical qwerty keypad .
I can only imagine that there 's something sub-optimal about the Treo keyboard ( having never tried it myself ) .
Alternatively , perhaps the author has n't used his Treo for a while , whereas he 's well-practised on the iPhone at the moment.Do n't get me wrong , I think virtual keyboards on touch screens are a wonderful innovation , and I personally would never buy a device with a physical keyboard , due to the extra bulk and weight it engenders in the device .
At the end of the day , I read stuff on my phone a lot more often than I enter data , so I want the device optimised for viewing and portability rather than speed of text entry.But that does n't change the fact that a tactile keyboard is quicker than a virtual one .
Perhaps the " swipe " style virtual keyboards that are now appearing will turn this around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the iPhone virtual keyboard came in a surprisingly close second... This probably matches most people's experienceNot at all.
There is no way the iPhone keyboard can possibly be as fast to use as a physical qwerty keypad.
I can only imagine that there's something sub-optimal about the Treo keyboard (having never tried it myself).
Alternatively, perhaps the author hasn't used his Treo for a while, whereas he's well-practised on the iPhone at the moment.Don't get me wrong, I think virtual keyboards on touch screens are a wonderful innovation, and I personally would never buy a device with a physical keyboard, due to the extra bulk and weight it engenders in the device.
At the end of the day, I read stuff on my phone a lot more often than I enter data, so I want the device optimised for viewing and portability rather than speed of text entry.But that doesn't change the fact that a tactile keyboard is quicker than a virtual one.
Perhaps the "swipe" style virtual keyboards that are now appearing will turn this around.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858556</id>
	<title>We just need those little mouth shields...</title>
	<author>millia</author>
	<datestamp>1264170000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I went to jury duty the other day, and the steno reporter... wasn't really using a steno machine. She was annotating the taping by speaking the non-verbal events into a little mouth-shield thingie.<br>So verbal dictation is possible- you'll just like more of a geek.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I went to jury duty the other day , and the steno reporter... was n't really using a steno machine .
She was annotating the taping by speaking the non-verbal events into a little mouth-shield thingie.So verbal dictation is possible- you 'll just like more of a geek .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went to jury duty the other day, and the steno reporter... wasn't really using a steno machine.
She was annotating the taping by speaking the non-verbal events into a little mouth-shield thingie.So verbal dictation is possible- you'll just like more of a geek.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859974</id>
	<title>Re:Slow QWERTY typer</title>
	<author>MikeBabcock</author>
	<datestamp>1264178640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone who regularly types over 80wpm, I had the same feeling.</p><p>That said, shorthand (as others have mentioned) and its possibilities in gesture-based input on touch screen devices could be much faster than other forms of handwriting shown as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who regularly types over 80wpm , I had the same feeling.That said , shorthand ( as others have mentioned ) and its possibilities in gesture-based input on touch screen devices could be much faster than other forms of handwriting shown as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who regularly types over 80wpm, I had the same feeling.That said, shorthand (as others have mentioned) and its possibilities in gesture-based input on touch screen devices could be much faster than other forms of handwriting shown as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858548</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30860784</id>
	<title>Re:a true geek ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264182540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course, a *true* geek would have learned stenography, and beaten all the gadgets by miles with only pen and paper.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:&gt;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course , a * true * geek would have learned stenography , and beaten all the gadgets by miles with only pen and paper .
: &gt;</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course, a *true* geek would have learned stenography, and beaten all the gadgets by miles with only pen and paper.
:&gt;</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858554</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859754</id>
	<title>Re:iphone vs. graffiti</title>
	<author>rickb928</author>
	<datestamp>1264177560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just snarfed a used X41 Tablet, and if I could tesch it Graffiti, it would be perfect.</p><p>But pen tablets have some advantages over touch screens.  You can rest your hand on the screen and not type garbage or ruin a drawing.  The pen is natural - writing with your finger less so, but learnable.  The haptics are much better than touch screen keyboards.</p><p>Of course, the pen gets chewed up by your dog, or yourself...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just snarfed a used X41 Tablet , and if I could tesch it Graffiti , it would be perfect.But pen tablets have some advantages over touch screens .
You can rest your hand on the screen and not type garbage or ruin a drawing .
The pen is natural - writing with your finger less so , but learnable .
The haptics are much better than touch screen keyboards.Of course , the pen gets chewed up by your dog , or yourself.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just snarfed a used X41 Tablet, and if I could tesch it Graffiti, it would be perfect.But pen tablets have some advantages over touch screens.
You can rest your hand on the screen and not type garbage or ruin a drawing.
The pen is natural - writing with your finger less so, but learnable.
The haptics are much better than touch screen keyboards.Of course, the pen gets chewed up by your dog, or yourself...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858590</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30859554</id>
	<title>Expected QWERTY much faster</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264176540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Really? He expected the QWERY to be more than 50\% faster than the iPhone. Data (in seconds) 296/194 = 1.526 or 52.6\% faster. It would have been nice if he use someone proficient with an iPhone, and have them type. We all know how fast people can type, but the iPhoe hasn't been around long enough to get decent data points. Or have a iPhone QWERTY challenge.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Really ?
He expected the QWERY to be more than 50 \ % faster than the iPhone .
Data ( in seconds ) 296/194 = 1.526 or 52.6 \ % faster .
It would have been nice if he use someone proficient with an iPhone , and have them type .
We all know how fast people can type , but the iPhoe has n't been around long enough to get decent data points .
Or have a iPhone QWERTY challenge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really?
He expected the QWERY to be more than 50\% faster than the iPhone.
Data (in seconds) 296/194 = 1.526 or 52.6\% faster.
It would have been nice if he use someone proficient with an iPhone, and have them type.
We all know how fast people can type, but the iPhoe hasn't been around long enough to get decent data points.
Or have a iPhone QWERTY challenge.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858912</id>
	<title>Sure, but what are you writing?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264173120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The tests were done using a 221 word long paragraph in English.  How fast would any of these methods be at entering something like the <a href="http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/SchroedingerEquation.html" title="wolfram.com">Schr&#246;dinger Equation</a> [wolfram.com]?  Sure, you could type "<tt>i\hbar\frac{\partial\psi}{\partial t} = \frac{\hbar^2}{2m}\nabla^2\psi + V(\mathbf{r})\psi</tt>" on a keyboard just about as easily as "<em>I have enough faith in my fellow creatures in Great Britain</em>", but realizing that you've made a mistake and fixing it would be difficult.
</p><p>Some things are easier with a keyboard and some things that are just easier to do with a pen and paper, be they real or virtual.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The tests were done using a 221 word long paragraph in English .
How fast would any of these methods be at entering something like the Schr   dinger Equation [ wolfram.com ] ?
Sure , you could type " i \ hbar \ frac { \ partial \ psi } { \ partial t } = \ frac { \ hbar ^ 2 } { 2m } \ nabla ^ 2 \ psi + V ( \ mathbf { r } ) \ psi " on a keyboard just about as easily as " I have enough faith in my fellow creatures in Great Britain " , but realizing that you 've made a mistake and fixing it would be difficult .
Some things are easier with a keyboard and some things that are just easier to do with a pen and paper , be they real or virtual .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The tests were done using a 221 word long paragraph in English.
How fast would any of these methods be at entering something like the Schrödinger Equation [wolfram.com]?
Sure, you could type "i\hbar\frac{\partial\psi}{\partial t} = \frac{\hbar^2}{2m}\nabla^2\psi + V(\mathbf{r})\psi" on a keyboard just about as easily as "I have enough faith in my fellow creatures in Great Britain", but realizing that you've made a mistake and fixing it would be difficult.
Some things are easier with a keyboard and some things that are just easier to do with a pen and paper, be they real or virtual.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30862596</id>
	<title>Re:a true geek ...</title>
	<author>DMUTPeregrine</author>
	<datestamp>1264192680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I just timed myself on a DSK (membrane, standard 104-key) keyboard: 2:17. That puts me at about 105wpm. It should take about 3:16 to type at 75wpm, which is generally considered a reasonable/good speed. My record average (12 tries, dropping highest and lowest, averaging the remainder) on a Model-M in DSK layout is 120wpm, using the preamble to the U.S. constitution as the sample.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just timed myself on a DSK ( membrane , standard 104-key ) keyboard : 2 : 17 .
That puts me at about 105wpm .
It should take about 3 : 16 to type at 75wpm , which is generally considered a reasonable/good speed .
My record average ( 12 tries , dropping highest and lowest , averaging the remainder ) on a Model-M in DSK layout is 120wpm , using the preamble to the U.S. constitution as the sample .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just timed myself on a DSK (membrane, standard 104-key) keyboard: 2:17.
That puts me at about 105wpm.
It should take about 3:16 to type at 75wpm, which is generally considered a reasonable/good speed.
My record average (12 tries, dropping highest and lowest, averaging the remainder) on a Model-M in DSK layout is 120wpm, using the preamble to the U.S. constitution as the sample.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_22_0812222.30858554</parent>
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