<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_21_215212</id>
	<title>MIT Offers Picture-Centric Programming To the Masses With Sikuli</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1264065660000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>coondoggie writes <i>"Computer users with rudimentary skills will be able to <a href="http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/012110-sikuli-scripting-language.html?hpg1=bn">program via screen shots rather than lines of code</a> with a new graphical scripting language called <a href="http://sikuli.csail.mit.edu/">Sikuli</a> that was devised at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.  With a basic understanding of Python, people can write programs that incorporate screen shots of graphical user interface (GUI) elements to automate computer work. One example given by the authors of a paper about Sikuli is a script that notifies a person when his bus is rounding the corner so he can leave in time to catch it."</i>
Here's a <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxDOlhysFcM">video demo of the technology</a>, and a <a href="http://groups.csail.mit.edu/uid/projects/sikuli/sikuli-uist2009.pdf">paper explaining the concept</a> (PDF).</htmltext>
<tokenext>coondoggie writes " Computer users with rudimentary skills will be able to program via screen shots rather than lines of code with a new graphical scripting language called Sikuli that was devised at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology .
With a basic understanding of Python , people can write programs that incorporate screen shots of graphical user interface ( GUI ) elements to automate computer work .
One example given by the authors of a paper about Sikuli is a script that notifies a person when his bus is rounding the corner so he can leave in time to catch it .
" Here 's a video demo of the technology , and a paper explaining the concept ( PDF ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>coondoggie writes "Computer users with rudimentary skills will be able to program via screen shots rather than lines of code with a new graphical scripting language called Sikuli that was devised at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
With a basic understanding of Python, people can write programs that incorporate screen shots of graphical user interface (GUI) elements to automate computer work.
One example given by the authors of a paper about Sikuli is a script that notifies a person when his bus is rounding the corner so he can leave in time to catch it.
"
Here's a video demo of the technology, and a paper explaining the concept (PDF).</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853314</id>
	<title>Problems</title>
	<author>master\_p</author>
	<datestamp>1264074720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The script may not work if the UI style is different from the one recorded or if the UI language is different from the one recorded. Generally, any option that can change the UI from computer to computer will create a problem for Sikuli.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The script may not work if the UI style is different from the one recorded or if the UI language is different from the one recorded .
Generally , any option that can change the UI from computer to computer will create a problem for Sikuli .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The script may not work if the UI style is different from the one recorded or if the UI language is different from the one recorded.
Generally, any option that can change the UI from computer to computer will create a problem for Sikuli.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852764</id>
	<title>Re:FrontPage?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264072740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Elite or competent? I'm all for people tinkering with software in their spare time the problem is people who arent qualified start thinking *everything* in software development is as simple as the tiny little things they are doing. Then we end up with Visual Basic(the birth of Visual Basic came with the motto "its so easy you know longer need programmers... managers can write the code"... that worked out well).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Elite or competent ?
I 'm all for people tinkering with software in their spare time the problem is people who arent qualified start thinking * everything * in software development is as simple as the tiny little things they are doing .
Then we end up with Visual Basic ( the birth of Visual Basic came with the motto " its so easy you know longer need programmers... managers can write the code " ... that worked out well ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Elite or competent?
I'm all for people tinkering with software in their spare time the problem is people who arent qualified start thinking *everything* in software development is as simple as the tiny little things they are doing.
Then we end up with Visual Basic(the birth of Visual Basic came with the motto "its so easy you know longer need programmers... managers can write the code"... that worked out well).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851920</id>
	<title>Better</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264070100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually I think this is more interesting than either FrontPage or LabView, because it allows you to script GUI apps that were not designed to be scriptable. Even for apps that are scriptable, it provides an increase in user efficiency as  you don't have to learn the API commands to do things that you already know how to do in the GUI.</p><p>How useful it is will depend on how well the image pattern matching deals with corner cases. Consider you need to click on a text field, however there are many identically looking (empty) text fields, with the only distinguishing factor being the label beside them, and clicking on the label does not select the text field. Like screen scraping, it is also somewhat fragile to UI changes (although not as much as other GUI scripting tools that rely on pixel location).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually I think this is more interesting than either FrontPage or LabView , because it allows you to script GUI apps that were not designed to be scriptable .
Even for apps that are scriptable , it provides an increase in user efficiency as you do n't have to learn the API commands to do things that you already know how to do in the GUI.How useful it is will depend on how well the image pattern matching deals with corner cases .
Consider you need to click on a text field , however there are many identically looking ( empty ) text fields , with the only distinguishing factor being the label beside them , and clicking on the label does not select the text field .
Like screen scraping , it is also somewhat fragile to UI changes ( although not as much as other GUI scripting tools that rely on pixel location ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually I think this is more interesting than either FrontPage or LabView, because it allows you to script GUI apps that were not designed to be scriptable.
Even for apps that are scriptable, it provides an increase in user efficiency as  you don't have to learn the API commands to do things that you already know how to do in the GUI.How useful it is will depend on how well the image pattern matching deals with corner cases.
Consider you need to click on a text field, however there are many identically looking (empty) text fields, with the only distinguishing factor being the label beside them, and clicking on the label does not select the text field.
Like screen scraping, it is also somewhat fragile to UI changes (although not as much as other GUI scripting tools that rely on pixel location).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710</id>
	<title>FrontPage?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264069500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sounds like the Microsoft FrontPage of coding software. Why do with text what you can do with pictures? And we all know FrontPge went on to become the defacto standard for web development....that had to be fixed by an real web developer later.<br> <br>
But on the upside, dedicated FTE's for "reinstalling corrupted FrontPage extensions" did skyrocket during the FrontPage era.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like the Microsoft FrontPage of coding software .
Why do with text what you can do with pictures ?
And we all know FrontPge went on to become the defacto standard for web development....that had to be fixed by an real web developer later .
But on the upside , dedicated FTE 's for " reinstalling corrupted FrontPage extensions " did skyrocket during the FrontPage era .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like the Microsoft FrontPage of coding software.
Why do with text what you can do with pictures?
And we all know FrontPge went on to become the defacto standard for web development....that had to be fixed by an real web developer later.
But on the upside, dedicated FTE's for "reinstalling corrupted FrontPage extensions" did skyrocket during the FrontPage era.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852754</id>
	<title>Re:FrontPage?</title>
	<author>Yvan256</author>
	<datestamp>1264072740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem with FrontPage wasn't the users, it was the code that it produced.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with FrontPage was n't the users , it was the code that it produced .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with FrontPage wasn't the users, it was the code that it produced.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272</id>
	<title>Re:FrontPage?</title>
	<author>gad\_zuki!</author>
	<datestamp>1264071180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;And we all know FrontPge went on to become the defacto standard for web development....that had to be fixed by an real web developer later.</p><p>Do you want to democratize technology or just have it controlled by elites? Non-techies want to do things like scripting and web design without paying a professional, the same way they want to fix things around the house or fix the car. When it comes to small or easy jobs, a non-expert can do just fine.  Why should we piss on the DIY'ers because they dont have a Master's degree in CS?  Frankly, a lot of computer stuff is pretty easy and paying someone is ridiculous.</p><p>While Im certainly no fan of Frontpage, I feel that it wasnt much worse than Mozilla Composer or other WSIWYG html composers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; And we all know FrontPge went on to become the defacto standard for web development....that had to be fixed by an real web developer later.Do you want to democratize technology or just have it controlled by elites ?
Non-techies want to do things like scripting and web design without paying a professional , the same way they want to fix things around the house or fix the car .
When it comes to small or easy jobs , a non-expert can do just fine .
Why should we piss on the DIY'ers because they dont have a Master 's degree in CS ?
Frankly , a lot of computer stuff is pretty easy and paying someone is ridiculous.While Im certainly no fan of Frontpage , I feel that it wasnt much worse than Mozilla Composer or other WSIWYG html composers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;And we all know FrontPge went on to become the defacto standard for web development....that had to be fixed by an real web developer later.Do you want to democratize technology or just have it controlled by elites?
Non-techies want to do things like scripting and web design without paying a professional, the same way they want to fix things around the house or fix the car.
When it comes to small or easy jobs, a non-expert can do just fine.
Why should we piss on the DIY'ers because they dont have a Master's degree in CS?
Frankly, a lot of computer stuff is pretty easy and paying someone is ridiculous.While Im certainly no fan of Frontpage, I feel that it wasnt much worse than Mozilla Composer or other WSIWYG html composers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856700</id>
	<title>Re:FrontPage?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264099620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"the same way they want to fix things around the house or fix the car"</p><p>And that's why we have mechanics and builders. Why should coding be any different. Just because you went to W3C and did a tutorial does not make you a web developer. Shit, I just went to WebMD, I'd like to diagnose some illnesses now.</p><p>Sure, if someone wants to make their own homepage, fine, go ahead and tinker. But would you trust you a financial management web app with all your personal details written by your accountant?</p><p>Just because code is text (and can be readily generated) doesn't mean that anyone with notepad should be able to write it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" the same way they want to fix things around the house or fix the car " And that 's why we have mechanics and builders .
Why should coding be any different .
Just because you went to W3C and did a tutorial does not make you a web developer .
Shit , I just went to WebMD , I 'd like to diagnose some illnesses now.Sure , if someone wants to make their own homepage , fine , go ahead and tinker .
But would you trust you a financial management web app with all your personal details written by your accountant ? Just because code is text ( and can be readily generated ) does n't mean that anyone with notepad should be able to write it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"the same way they want to fix things around the house or fix the car"And that's why we have mechanics and builders.
Why should coding be any different.
Just because you went to W3C and did a tutorial does not make you a web developer.
Shit, I just went to WebMD, I'd like to diagnose some illnesses now.Sure, if someone wants to make their own homepage, fine, go ahead and tinker.
But would you trust you a financial management web app with all your personal details written by your accountant?Just because code is text (and can be readily generated) doesn't mean that anyone with notepad should be able to write it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854184</id>
	<title>Google Video Search?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264078260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>This might have potential, depending on how flexible the pattern match is when looking for thumbnails of, ahhh, things...</htmltext>
<tokenext>This might have potential , depending on how flexible the pattern match is when looking for thumbnails of , ahhh , things.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This might have potential, depending on how flexible the pattern match is when looking for thumbnails of, ahhh, things...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855446</id>
	<title>Re:FrontPage?</title>
	<author>ilsaloving</author>
	<datestamp>1264086900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is a minimum level of skill and talent required to do anything.  The only thing that happens when you make something "so simple anyone can do it", is a minefield of crap software.  Instructing a computer to do something requires the ability to think abstractly, and organize/plan with an orders of magnitude more sophistication than "Do I want eggs or pancakes for breakfast?".  Arguing that the 'elites' are pushing down the 'DIYers' is disingenuous.  A real DIYer will overcome the learning curve of whatever they're trying to do, because they care enough to put the effort into it.</p><p>There's a big difference between that, and someone who just wants to slap a bunch of widgets together and expect it to work.</p><p>The end result is a bunch of people who don't know what the hell they're doing, but demand that they be called programmers.  You also get other people who, when needing specialized software to run some key part of their business, look to these non-skilled 'programmers', and then turn to the skilled people and complain how unreasonable their higher rates are.  It's downright insulting.</p><p>It's the same mindset (or lack thereof) that many people think Y2K was a big waste of time and money because 'nothing happened'.</p><p>Hell, it's (relatively) easy to program an iPhone too.  What do we have?  Tens of thousands of apps that emit varying types of fart sounds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is a minimum level of skill and talent required to do anything .
The only thing that happens when you make something " so simple anyone can do it " , is a minefield of crap software .
Instructing a computer to do something requires the ability to think abstractly , and organize/plan with an orders of magnitude more sophistication than " Do I want eggs or pancakes for breakfast ? " .
Arguing that the 'elites ' are pushing down the 'DIYers ' is disingenuous .
A real DIYer will overcome the learning curve of whatever they 're trying to do , because they care enough to put the effort into it.There 's a big difference between that , and someone who just wants to slap a bunch of widgets together and expect it to work.The end result is a bunch of people who do n't know what the hell they 're doing , but demand that they be called programmers .
You also get other people who , when needing specialized software to run some key part of their business , look to these non-skilled 'programmers ' , and then turn to the skilled people and complain how unreasonable their higher rates are .
It 's downright insulting.It 's the same mindset ( or lack thereof ) that many people think Y2K was a big waste of time and money because 'nothing happened'.Hell , it 's ( relatively ) easy to program an iPhone too .
What do we have ?
Tens of thousands of apps that emit varying types of fart sounds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is a minimum level of skill and talent required to do anything.
The only thing that happens when you make something "so simple anyone can do it", is a minefield of crap software.
Instructing a computer to do something requires the ability to think abstractly, and organize/plan with an orders of magnitude more sophistication than "Do I want eggs or pancakes for breakfast?".
Arguing that the 'elites' are pushing down the 'DIYers' is disingenuous.
A real DIYer will overcome the learning curve of whatever they're trying to do, because they care enough to put the effort into it.There's a big difference between that, and someone who just wants to slap a bunch of widgets together and expect it to work.The end result is a bunch of people who don't know what the hell they're doing, but demand that they be called programmers.
You also get other people who, when needing specialized software to run some key part of their business, look to these non-skilled 'programmers', and then turn to the skilled people and complain how unreasonable their higher rates are.
It's downright insulting.It's the same mindset (or lack thereof) that many people think Y2K was a big waste of time and money because 'nothing happened'.Hell, it's (relatively) easy to program an iPhone too.
What do we have?
Tens of thousands of apps that emit varying types of fart sounds.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852520</id>
	<title>Yes, but can Sikuli be used to write Sikuli?</title>
	<author>hellop2</author>
	<datestamp>1264071960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Otherwise it's just not complete, IMHO.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Otherwise it 's just not complete , IMHO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Otherwise it's just not complete, IMHO.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856182</id>
	<title>I think I've seen this before...</title>
	<author>kasparov</author>
	<datestamp>1264093560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is basically <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expect" title="wikipedia.org">expect</a> [wikipedia.org] script for GUIs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is basically expect [ wikipedia.org ] script for GUIs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is basically expect [wikipedia.org] script for GUIs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856196</id>
	<title>Re:Potential</title>
	<author>jdimatteo</author>
	<datestamp>1264093680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am currently working on automated GUI tests for an application, and Sikuli looks pretty great -- even when compared to enterprise level automated GUI testing tools costing in the order of thousands of dollars per user licence.</p><p>Some of the commenting below on maintainability problems seem pretty superficial.  For example, to ease maintainability you could build a framework abstracting GUI component images from regression test scripts.  For example, you could assign a screenshot as a variable and then refer to that variable throughout your test, so if a button happens to change dramatically, you make the change in potentially one place in your code instead of every time it is used in a click.  The fact that the tool appears simple (not too many bells and whistles) and is based on Python seems to be major advantages for maintainability.</p><p>Check out this interesting academic paper which specifically addresses using Sikuli for automated GUI testing: "GUI Testing Using Computer Vision, CHI 2010" at <a href="http://sikuli.csail.mit.edu/documentation.shtml" title="mit.edu" rel="nofollow">http://sikuli.csail.mit.edu/documentation.shtml</a> [mit.edu]</p><p>Has anybody actually used Sikuli?  I'd be very curious if anybody has used this for automated GUI testing in a corporate environment...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am currently working on automated GUI tests for an application , and Sikuli looks pretty great -- even when compared to enterprise level automated GUI testing tools costing in the order of thousands of dollars per user licence.Some of the commenting below on maintainability problems seem pretty superficial .
For example , to ease maintainability you could build a framework abstracting GUI component images from regression test scripts .
For example , you could assign a screenshot as a variable and then refer to that variable throughout your test , so if a button happens to change dramatically , you make the change in potentially one place in your code instead of every time it is used in a click .
The fact that the tool appears simple ( not too many bells and whistles ) and is based on Python seems to be major advantages for maintainability.Check out this interesting academic paper which specifically addresses using Sikuli for automated GUI testing : " GUI Testing Using Computer Vision , CHI 2010 " at http : //sikuli.csail.mit.edu/documentation.shtml [ mit.edu ] Has anybody actually used Sikuli ?
I 'd be very curious if anybody has used this for automated GUI testing in a corporate environment.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am currently working on automated GUI tests for an application, and Sikuli looks pretty great -- even when compared to enterprise level automated GUI testing tools costing in the order of thousands of dollars per user licence.Some of the commenting below on maintainability problems seem pretty superficial.
For example, to ease maintainability you could build a framework abstracting GUI component images from regression test scripts.
For example, you could assign a screenshot as a variable and then refer to that variable throughout your test, so if a button happens to change dramatically, you make the change in potentially one place in your code instead of every time it is used in a click.
The fact that the tool appears simple (not too many bells and whistles) and is based on Python seems to be major advantages for maintainability.Check out this interesting academic paper which specifically addresses using Sikuli for automated GUI testing: "GUI Testing Using Computer Vision, CHI 2010" at http://sikuli.csail.mit.edu/documentation.shtml [mit.edu]Has anybody actually used Sikuli?
I'd be very curious if anybody has used this for automated GUI testing in a corporate environment...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855062</id>
	<title>Use This for Software Testing, and Scripting?</title>
	<author>LifesABeach</author>
	<datestamp>1264083720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I just open this can of worms up, but the first thing I thought of after seeing the demo was, "Can I push a button on a Flash page?"</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just open this can of worms up , but the first thing I thought of after seeing the demo was , " Can I push a button on a Flash page ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just open this can of worms up, but the first thing I thought of after seeing the demo was, "Can I push a button on a Flash page?
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855730</id>
	<title>AutoIt</title>
	<author>White Flame</author>
	<datestamp>1264089360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I did this exact same thing in <a href="http://www.autoitscript.com/" title="autoitscript.com">AutoIt</a> [autoitscript.com], except that it needs exact matches of images instead of a fuzzy recognizer.  (Plus, I also had rule triggers and state vs just a single list of imperative commands)</p><p>The fuzzy match is a nice addition, but this automation concept has been available for years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did this exact same thing in AutoIt [ autoitscript.com ] , except that it needs exact matches of images instead of a fuzzy recognizer .
( Plus , I also had rule triggers and state vs just a single list of imperative commands ) The fuzzy match is a nice addition , but this automation concept has been available for years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did this exact same thing in AutoIt [autoitscript.com], except that it needs exact matches of images instead of a fuzzy recognizer.
(Plus, I also had rule triggers and state vs just a single list of imperative commands)The fuzzy match is a nice addition, but this automation concept has been available for years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30871814</id>
	<title>Immediately useful, valuable and fun</title>
	<author>mattr</author>
	<datestamp>1264279260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Okay, I have done a fair amount of programming and yet with a new Mac I have not yet dived into the SDKs, etc. I once wanted to do some batch resizing of photos and yet couldn't get it done in Automator easily without being scared of losing the original photos, on my first dive into it. Yes, I actually wrote a great auto-compositing and resizing program once driving the Gimp on linux. It was awesome. But that was years ago and now I have a nice new computer. And where did that code go. Yes I'm sure Automator, Quartz Composer, my shiny new Xcode system and whatever else works on a Mac will be great. But I haven't had time to learn it.</p><p>Enter Sikuli. I wrote a hello world and it worked fast. I don't know if I could do it to do batch photo processing still but it just seems cool. I'd rather it was decoupled from a language and the editor was open sourced (maybe it is?) though, so others could build on that. For example if there was a binding to Perl and you could just use the IDE, then maybe someone could add Perl bindings and someone else might add use of CPAN modules for downloading web pages, etc.</p><p>Also the vision algorithm looks a bit slow.</p><p>There was once an experimental system created that allowed you to program graphic drawings drawn as if on a napkin which would animate in 2D, which is how the program would run. A true graphic language. Maybe someone can find it probably in the ACM SIGGRAPH proceedings several years ago. Maybe "graphic shell" and "napkin drawings" would find it.</p><p>ALso see VizDraw (pdf) where recognition is done on drawing with a pen tablet.<br><a href="http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~akmishra/VizDraw2.pdf" title="uwaterloo.ca">http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~akmishra/VizDraw2.pdf</a> [uwaterloo.ca]</p><p>Anyway, Sikuli is spectacular for using computer vision techniques to allow for slight changes, and for being immediately useful. I'd like to see it linked to Xcode for RAD of Objective-C apps; Apple should definitely license it or hire the developers for research on it. There is a vast field opened up by this, finally an a-hah experience and not just Apple but many developers should now consider how to get the computer to be smart and find out what you want to do.</p><p>This ought to make it possible to do easy mechanized data extraction from the web, analysis of webcam feeds, acting on audio and other types of sensor cues, accessing data and devices over networks, and taking action based on feeds from other devices that are minimally enhanced like my cellphone telling my mac and maybe my mail server when its battery is about to die.  It could forward mail to another device, etc. This kind of thing even could work in video cameras and household devices. Even if you just consider it a way to turn people on to programming it is invaluable and fun. I'd like to see Sikuli's functional pieces broken off into standalone services that can be used by other things. As for the comment about window manager themes or operating system versions changing and breaking the script due to icon changes, I think the vision detection of a gui button actually is finding the button and window ids in Sikuli and ought to be able to hand those back.</p><p>The editor should also be broken off, of course it needs to be able to launch a screenshot capturing action but that does not mean it must be the sole application allowed to do this. And you could write (snap?) a Sikuli script to run a screenshot capture. Finally I think the Sikuli scripts ought to allow being compiled or otherwise optimized since obviously once it is run, Sikuli knows what the ID of the graphic element it finds is and thereafter need not do vision recognition, it seems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , I have done a fair amount of programming and yet with a new Mac I have not yet dived into the SDKs , etc .
I once wanted to do some batch resizing of photos and yet could n't get it done in Automator easily without being scared of losing the original photos , on my first dive into it .
Yes , I actually wrote a great auto-compositing and resizing program once driving the Gimp on linux .
It was awesome .
But that was years ago and now I have a nice new computer .
And where did that code go .
Yes I 'm sure Automator , Quartz Composer , my shiny new Xcode system and whatever else works on a Mac will be great .
But I have n't had time to learn it.Enter Sikuli .
I wrote a hello world and it worked fast .
I do n't know if I could do it to do batch photo processing still but it just seems cool .
I 'd rather it was decoupled from a language and the editor was open sourced ( maybe it is ?
) though , so others could build on that .
For example if there was a binding to Perl and you could just use the IDE , then maybe someone could add Perl bindings and someone else might add use of CPAN modules for downloading web pages , etc.Also the vision algorithm looks a bit slow.There was once an experimental system created that allowed you to program graphic drawings drawn as if on a napkin which would animate in 2D , which is how the program would run .
A true graphic language .
Maybe someone can find it probably in the ACM SIGGRAPH proceedings several years ago .
Maybe " graphic shell " and " napkin drawings " would find it.ALso see VizDraw ( pdf ) where recognition is done on drawing with a pen tablet.http : //www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/ ~ akmishra/VizDraw2.pdf [ uwaterloo.ca ] Anyway , Sikuli is spectacular for using computer vision techniques to allow for slight changes , and for being immediately useful .
I 'd like to see it linked to Xcode for RAD of Objective-C apps ; Apple should definitely license it or hire the developers for research on it .
There is a vast field opened up by this , finally an a-hah experience and not just Apple but many developers should now consider how to get the computer to be smart and find out what you want to do.This ought to make it possible to do easy mechanized data extraction from the web , analysis of webcam feeds , acting on audio and other types of sensor cues , accessing data and devices over networks , and taking action based on feeds from other devices that are minimally enhanced like my cellphone telling my mac and maybe my mail server when its battery is about to die .
It could forward mail to another device , etc .
This kind of thing even could work in video cameras and household devices .
Even if you just consider it a way to turn people on to programming it is invaluable and fun .
I 'd like to see Sikuli 's functional pieces broken off into standalone services that can be used by other things .
As for the comment about window manager themes or operating system versions changing and breaking the script due to icon changes , I think the vision detection of a gui button actually is finding the button and window ids in Sikuli and ought to be able to hand those back.The editor should also be broken off , of course it needs to be able to launch a screenshot capturing action but that does not mean it must be the sole application allowed to do this .
And you could write ( snap ?
) a Sikuli script to run a screenshot capture .
Finally I think the Sikuli scripts ought to allow being compiled or otherwise optimized since obviously once it is run , Sikuli knows what the ID of the graphic element it finds is and thereafter need not do vision recognition , it seems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, I have done a fair amount of programming and yet with a new Mac I have not yet dived into the SDKs, etc.
I once wanted to do some batch resizing of photos and yet couldn't get it done in Automator easily without being scared of losing the original photos, on my first dive into it.
Yes, I actually wrote a great auto-compositing and resizing program once driving the Gimp on linux.
It was awesome.
But that was years ago and now I have a nice new computer.
And where did that code go.
Yes I'm sure Automator, Quartz Composer, my shiny new Xcode system and whatever else works on a Mac will be great.
But I haven't had time to learn it.Enter Sikuli.
I wrote a hello world and it worked fast.
I don't know if I could do it to do batch photo processing still but it just seems cool.
I'd rather it was decoupled from a language and the editor was open sourced (maybe it is?
) though, so others could build on that.
For example if there was a binding to Perl and you could just use the IDE, then maybe someone could add Perl bindings and someone else might add use of CPAN modules for downloading web pages, etc.Also the vision algorithm looks a bit slow.There was once an experimental system created that allowed you to program graphic drawings drawn as if on a napkin which would animate in 2D, which is how the program would run.
A true graphic language.
Maybe someone can find it probably in the ACM SIGGRAPH proceedings several years ago.
Maybe "graphic shell" and "napkin drawings" would find it.ALso see VizDraw (pdf) where recognition is done on drawing with a pen tablet.http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~akmishra/VizDraw2.pdf [uwaterloo.ca]Anyway, Sikuli is spectacular for using computer vision techniques to allow for slight changes, and for being immediately useful.
I'd like to see it linked to Xcode for RAD of Objective-C apps; Apple should definitely license it or hire the developers for research on it.
There is a vast field opened up by this, finally an a-hah experience and not just Apple but many developers should now consider how to get the computer to be smart and find out what you want to do.This ought to make it possible to do easy mechanized data extraction from the web, analysis of webcam feeds, acting on audio and other types of sensor cues, accessing data and devices over networks, and taking action based on feeds from other devices that are minimally enhanced like my cellphone telling my mac and maybe my mail server when its battery is about to die.
It could forward mail to another device, etc.
This kind of thing even could work in video cameras and household devices.
Even if you just consider it a way to turn people on to programming it is invaluable and fun.
I'd like to see Sikuli's functional pieces broken off into standalone services that can be used by other things.
As for the comment about window manager themes or operating system versions changing and breaking the script due to icon changes, I think the vision detection of a gui button actually is finding the button and window ids in Sikuli and ought to be able to hand those back.The editor should also be broken off, of course it needs to be able to launch a screenshot capturing action but that does not mean it must be the sole application allowed to do this.
And you could write (snap?
) a Sikuli script to run a screenshot capture.
Finally I think the Sikuli scripts ought to allow being compiled or otherwise optimized since obviously once it is run, Sikuli knows what the ID of the graphic element it finds is and thereafter need not do vision recognition, it seems.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853644</id>
	<title>Re:lame</title>
	<author>HaeMaker</author>
	<datestamp>1264075920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, you tried it and it didn't work?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , you tried it and it did n't work ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, you tried it and it didn't work?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853508</id>
	<title>Again!?!  That trick never works.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264075500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This time for sure!</htmltext>
<tokenext>This time for sure !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This time for sure!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30857866</id>
	<title>Question</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264160940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What happens when the luser changes his theme? Or when Apple updates the system software and controls change places/colors a little tiny bit? (is it still called "system software"?)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What happens when the luser changes his theme ?
Or when Apple updates the system software and controls change places/colors a little tiny bit ?
( is it still called " system software " ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What happens when the luser changes his theme?
Or when Apple updates the system software and controls change places/colors a little tiny bit?
(is it still called "system software"?
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853784</id>
	<title>The Sikuli School of Programming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264076460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><tt>if NOT understand logic then<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;loop<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; talkTo (self, "Don't program!")<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Look (@ Pretty pictures)<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;endloop<br>endif<br></tt></htmltext>
<tokenext>if NOT understand logic then     loop       talkTo ( self , " Do n't program !
" )       Look ( @ Pretty pictures )     endloopendif</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if NOT understand logic then   loop      talkTo (self, "Don't program!
")      Look (@ Pretty pictures)   endloopendif</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854196</id>
	<title>Re:Program, NOT code. Think MACRO</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264078320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't use a tool like this for testing. Start with AutoIt or <a href="http://white.codeplex.com/" title="codeplex.com" rel="nofollow">nunit+white</a> [codeplex.com], and look at commercial tools if those don't do what you need.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't use a tool like this for testing .
Start with AutoIt or nunit + white [ codeplex.com ] , and look at commercial tools if those do n't do what you need .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't use a tool like this for testing.
Start with AutoIt or nunit+white [codeplex.com], and look at commercial tools if those don't do what you need.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852232</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854416</id>
	<title>Think executable step-by-step tutorials</title>
	<author>tucuxi</author>
	<datestamp>1264079520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Sikuli is certainly not commercial-grade UI testing software. It was never intended to be, this is academic software written to explore ideas, rather than to polish them to perfection. Also, it is not a "general" programming language. The previous posters that compared it to video-programming are right: not all programs have to target complicated algorithms and data-structures, there is plenty of space for automating "simple stuff".
</p><p>
As an idea, I find the <i>readability</i> of the code particularly interesting. Sikuli code is about the closest you can come to self-explanatory, step-by-step instructions on how to achieve whatever a particular program does. Add a few comments to the most arcane steps, publish those programs to an online repository, and presto! executable step-by-step tutorials.
</p><p>
Yes, the developers may have to address the variability of themes on people's desktops. It is certainly possible to do so (for instance, by keeping a list of mappings from any of a set of "supported" themes to a "canonical" theme, which would be used in all examples), but, as far as ideas go, I really think that Sikuli is a very refreshing idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sikuli is certainly not commercial-grade UI testing software .
It was never intended to be , this is academic software written to explore ideas , rather than to polish them to perfection .
Also , it is not a " general " programming language .
The previous posters that compared it to video-programming are right : not all programs have to target complicated algorithms and data-structures , there is plenty of space for automating " simple stuff " .
As an idea , I find the readability of the code particularly interesting .
Sikuli code is about the closest you can come to self-explanatory , step-by-step instructions on how to achieve whatever a particular program does .
Add a few comments to the most arcane steps , publish those programs to an online repository , and presto !
executable step-by-step tutorials .
Yes , the developers may have to address the variability of themes on people 's desktops .
It is certainly possible to do so ( for instance , by keeping a list of mappings from any of a set of " supported " themes to a " canonical " theme , which would be used in all examples ) , but , as far as ideas go , I really think that Sikuli is a very refreshing idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Sikuli is certainly not commercial-grade UI testing software.
It was never intended to be, this is academic software written to explore ideas, rather than to polish them to perfection.
Also, it is not a "general" programming language.
The previous posters that compared it to video-programming are right: not all programs have to target complicated algorithms and data-structures, there is plenty of space for automating "simple stuff".
As an idea, I find the readability of the code particularly interesting.
Sikuli code is about the closest you can come to self-explanatory, step-by-step instructions on how to achieve whatever a particular program does.
Add a few comments to the most arcane steps, publish those programs to an online repository, and presto!
executable step-by-step tutorials.
Yes, the developers may have to address the variability of themes on people's desktops.
It is certainly possible to do so (for instance, by keeping a list of mappings from any of a set of "supported" themes to a "canonical" theme, which would be used in all examples), but, as far as ideas go, I really think that Sikuli is a very refreshing idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851964</id>
	<title>My grandmother knows python</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264070280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Computer users with rudimentary skills"..... "with a basic understanding of Python"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Computer users with rudimentary skills " ..... " with a basic understanding of Python " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Computer users with rudimentary skills"..... "with a basic understanding of Python"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856346</id>
	<title>Re:Program, NOT code. Think MACRO</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264095180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>From what I seen is this a macro program that can use screenshots rather then key/mouse data to automate tasks. So you PROGRAM your PC in the same way you PROGRAM a VCR to record a show. It is NOT the same as writing an application.</p><p>But it seems very <strong>intresting</strong> once you got past this difference. Macro's are very handy for testing in my experience but often have a problem because a tiny mis-alignment can ruin it all. If this program is smarter because it can <strong>regonize</strong> where data is supposed to go... well that would certainly make automated tests a bit easier.</p><p> <strong>Interesting</strong> stuff. Just don't think you will be writing software with this.</p></div><p>Quit intreegheen. It's quite intriguing stuff.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From what I seen is this a macro program that can use screenshots rather then key/mouse data to automate tasks .
So you PROGRAM your PC in the same way you PROGRAM a VCR to record a show .
It is NOT the same as writing an application.But it seems very intresting once you got past this difference .
Macro 's are very handy for testing in my experience but often have a problem because a tiny mis-alignment can ruin it all .
If this program is smarter because it can regonize where data is supposed to go... well that would certainly make automated tests a bit easier .
Interesting stuff .
Just do n't think you will be writing software with this.Quit intreegheen .
It 's quite intriguing stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From what I seen is this a macro program that can use screenshots rather then key/mouse data to automate tasks.
So you PROGRAM your PC in the same way you PROGRAM a VCR to record a show.
It is NOT the same as writing an application.But it seems very intresting once you got past this difference.
Macro's are very handy for testing in my experience but often have a problem because a tiny mis-alignment can ruin it all.
If this program is smarter because it can regonize where data is supposed to go... well that would certainly make automated tests a bit easier.
Interesting stuff.
Just don't think you will be writing software with this.Quit intreegheen.
It's quite intriguing stuff.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852232</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30869724</id>
	<title>Re:FrontPage?</title>
	<author>wondershit</author>
	<datestamp>1264262880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Non-techies want to do things like scripting and web design without paying a professional, the same way they want to fix things around the house or fix the car.</p></div><p>I really doubt that. And from what I hear you can't easily fix most issues with cars anymore.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Non-techies want to do things like scripting and web design without paying a professional , the same way they want to fix things around the house or fix the car.I really doubt that .
And from what I hear you ca n't easily fix most issues with cars anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Non-techies want to do things like scripting and web design without paying a professional, the same way they want to fix things around the house or fix the car.I really doubt that.
And from what I hear you can't easily fix most issues with cars anymore.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30860380</id>
	<title>Re:Potential</title>
	<author>ElizabethGreene</author>
	<datestamp>1264180560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was thinking the same thing.  Where this would be really handy would be in applications that paint their own windows and don't expose the gui handles for AutoIt to latch on to.  Specifically, this would work great for Great Plains or online poker clients.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>-ellie</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was thinking the same thing .
Where this would be really handy would be in applications that paint their own windows and do n't expose the gui handles for AutoIt to latch on to .
Specifically , this would work great for Great Plains or online poker clients .
: ) -ellie</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was thinking the same thing.
Where this would be really handy would be in applications that paint their own windows and don't expose the gui handles for AutoIt to latch on to.
Specifically, this would work great for Great Plains or online poker clients.
:)-ellie</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852574</id>
	<title>Perfect Macro program...</title>
	<author>BoppreH</author>
	<datestamp>1264072140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... but does anyone knows if the program is always that slow?<br> <br>I understand that it has to visually find the button and this is computationally expensive, but the 2~3 seconds lag didn't seem compatible with the task.<br> <br>On a sidenote, the video states that there's no "internal API" dependence, but it clearly has to send "click" and "type" signals. Is that really OS independent or was it just an overstatement?</htmltext>
<tokenext>... but does anyone knows if the program is always that slow ?
I understand that it has to visually find the button and this is computationally expensive , but the 2 ~ 3 seconds lag did n't seem compatible with the task .
On a sidenote , the video states that there 's no " internal API " dependence , but it clearly has to send " click " and " type " signals .
Is that really OS independent or was it just an overstatement ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... but does anyone knows if the program is always that slow?
I understand that it has to visually find the button and this is computationally expensive, but the 2~3 seconds lag didn't seem compatible with the task.
On a sidenote, the video states that there's no "internal API" dependence, but it clearly has to send "click" and "type" signals.
Is that really OS independent or was it just an overstatement?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30859896</id>
	<title>It certainly has its on niche</title>
	<author>gugod</author>
	<datestamp>1264178220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I tried playing it and found it really impressive. The implementation is still beta-ish, but good enough to give it a try.</p><p>The first thing I make it do for me, is to launch my VNC viewer on my mac laptop, connect to my local head-less windows 7 machine, and click the iTunes play button to play some music there. It just worked (amazingly), and I found it to be a pretty good use case for a tool like this. A task like that cannot be easily automated. At least, it has not be the case with a tool that you just start trying for 5 minutes.</p><p>I can imagine that, if the image pattern matching can be extended to do recognition, such as face recognition / text OCR, and passed the recognized info back, or it adds webcam as its input device (instead of keyboard / mouse IO)  it'll be overwhelming.</p><p>Besides, it really is an inspiring way of coding.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I tried playing it and found it really impressive .
The implementation is still beta-ish , but good enough to give it a try.The first thing I make it do for me , is to launch my VNC viewer on my mac laptop , connect to my local head-less windows 7 machine , and click the iTunes play button to play some music there .
It just worked ( amazingly ) , and I found it to be a pretty good use case for a tool like this .
A task like that can not be easily automated .
At least , it has not be the case with a tool that you just start trying for 5 minutes.I can imagine that , if the image pattern matching can be extended to do recognition , such as face recognition / text OCR , and passed the recognized info back , or it adds webcam as its input device ( instead of keyboard / mouse IO ) it 'll be overwhelming.Besides , it really is an inspiring way of coding .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tried playing it and found it really impressive.
The implementation is still beta-ish, but good enough to give it a try.The first thing I make it do for me, is to launch my VNC viewer on my mac laptop, connect to my local head-less windows 7 machine, and click the iTunes play button to play some music there.
It just worked (amazingly), and I found it to be a pretty good use case for a tool like this.
A task like that cannot be easily automated.
At least, it has not be the case with a tool that you just start trying for 5 minutes.I can imagine that, if the image pattern matching can be extended to do recognition, such as face recognition / text OCR, and passed the recognized info back, or it adds webcam as its input device (instead of keyboard / mouse IO)  it'll be overwhelming.Besides, it really is an inspiring way of coding.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856968</id>
	<title>Re:FrontPage?</title>
	<author>CodeBuster</author>
	<datestamp>1264103400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Do you want to democratize technology or just have it controlled by elites?</p></div><p>If I have to be in charge of cleaning up their mess then I would prefer that they leave development to the professionals. I think that is what the parent is getting at. We professionals are tired of rescuing dabblers who get in over their heads because their "easy to use" tools are just powerful enough to get them into trouble, but not powerful enough to get them out. If people agree to be responsible for their own results, good or bad, then I say let them do as they wish. Unfortunately, it never seems to work out that way in the real world. If their experimental project causes me to have an unplanned interruption in my own development work to help them out of a jam, I am probably going to be unhappy.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>a lot of computer stuff is pretty easy and paying someone is ridiculous.</p></div><p>The famous last words of many who come to IT, hat in hand, and ask us to "fix it" or "make it work". It may be easy for the Slashdot crowd, but in my experience real computer knowledge is less common in the general population than you might otherwise believe.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you want to democratize technology or just have it controlled by elites ? If I have to be in charge of cleaning up their mess then I would prefer that they leave development to the professionals .
I think that is what the parent is getting at .
We professionals are tired of rescuing dabblers who get in over their heads because their " easy to use " tools are just powerful enough to get them into trouble , but not powerful enough to get them out .
If people agree to be responsible for their own results , good or bad , then I say let them do as they wish .
Unfortunately , it never seems to work out that way in the real world .
If their experimental project causes me to have an unplanned interruption in my own development work to help them out of a jam , I am probably going to be unhappy.a lot of computer stuff is pretty easy and paying someone is ridiculous.The famous last words of many who come to IT , hat in hand , and ask us to " fix it " or " make it work " .
It may be easy for the Slashdot crowd , but in my experience real computer knowledge is less common in the general population than you might otherwise believe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you want to democratize technology or just have it controlled by elites?If I have to be in charge of cleaning up their mess then I would prefer that they leave development to the professionals.
I think that is what the parent is getting at.
We professionals are tired of rescuing dabblers who get in over their heads because their "easy to use" tools are just powerful enough to get them into trouble, but not powerful enough to get them out.
If people agree to be responsible for their own results, good or bad, then I say let them do as they wish.
Unfortunately, it never seems to work out that way in the real world.
If their experimental project causes me to have an unplanned interruption in my own development work to help them out of a jam, I am probably going to be unhappy.a lot of computer stuff is pretty easy and paying someone is ridiculous.The famous last words of many who come to IT, hat in hand, and ask us to "fix it" or "make it work".
It may be easy for the Slashdot crowd, but in my experience real computer knowledge is less common in the general population than you might otherwise believe.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853390</id>
	<title>Re:Potential</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264075020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.testplant.com/" title="testplant.com" rel="nofollow">Eggplant</a> [testplant.com] says hi.</p><p>As a professional test automator, I'd like to point out that automation by image recognition is the method of last resort. The #1 concern in GUI automation is maintainability, and image recognition is the least maintainable method of automation there is short of recording mouse coordinates and keypresses. If you change your theme, if the developer rearranges the controls, if any text is changed, the script is broken. The idea of using image recognition for web page automation is right out. Web sites change way too often for something like this.</p><p>The key to writing maintainable scripts is finding and hooking into the property that is least likely to change. If you're automating Windows Forms<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET apps, you might be able to get the actual variable name. If you're automating web pages you could look at the id or name of the control. You can look at the text of a button or the label of a textbox. You find whatever you can that won't change.</p><p>On Windows, use <a href="http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/" title="autoitscript.com" rel="nofollow">AutoIT</a> [autoitscript.com] if you want something free. There's better commercial tools but they start in the hundreds of dollars and only go up from there.</p><p>For web automation, look at <a href="http://watir.com/" title="watir.com" rel="nofollow">watir</a> [watir.com], <a href="http://code.google.com/p/selenium/" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">WebDriver/Selenium</a> [google.com], or <a href="http://watin.sourceforge.net/" title="sourceforge.net" rel="nofollow">WatiN</a> [sourceforge.net].</p><p>On Macs you get these nice tools called AppleScript and Automator. These are made for end users. They don't use the UI, but instead use an interface made just for automation.</p><p>If you can at all avoid it, I recommend not using image recognition tools. They're extremely fragile. That said, sometimes it can't be avoided. I'll probably take a look at the source to see if there's anything I can use in those few cases where image recognition is unavoidable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Eggplant [ testplant.com ] says hi.As a professional test automator , I 'd like to point out that automation by image recognition is the method of last resort .
The # 1 concern in GUI automation is maintainability , and image recognition is the least maintainable method of automation there is short of recording mouse coordinates and keypresses .
If you change your theme , if the developer rearranges the controls , if any text is changed , the script is broken .
The idea of using image recognition for web page automation is right out .
Web sites change way too often for something like this.The key to writing maintainable scripts is finding and hooking into the property that is least likely to change .
If you 're automating Windows Forms .NET apps , you might be able to get the actual variable name .
If you 're automating web pages you could look at the id or name of the control .
You can look at the text of a button or the label of a textbox .
You find whatever you can that wo n't change.On Windows , use AutoIT [ autoitscript.com ] if you want something free .
There 's better commercial tools but they start in the hundreds of dollars and only go up from there.For web automation , look at watir [ watir.com ] , WebDriver/Selenium [ google.com ] , or WatiN [ sourceforge.net ] .On Macs you get these nice tools called AppleScript and Automator .
These are made for end users .
They do n't use the UI , but instead use an interface made just for automation.If you can at all avoid it , I recommend not using image recognition tools .
They 're extremely fragile .
That said , sometimes it ca n't be avoided .
I 'll probably take a look at the source to see if there 's anything I can use in those few cases where image recognition is unavoidable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Eggplant [testplant.com] says hi.As a professional test automator, I'd like to point out that automation by image recognition is the method of last resort.
The #1 concern in GUI automation is maintainability, and image recognition is the least maintainable method of automation there is short of recording mouse coordinates and keypresses.
If you change your theme, if the developer rearranges the controls, if any text is changed, the script is broken.
The idea of using image recognition for web page automation is right out.
Web sites change way too often for something like this.The key to writing maintainable scripts is finding and hooking into the property that is least likely to change.
If you're automating Windows Forms .NET apps, you might be able to get the actual variable name.
If you're automating web pages you could look at the id or name of the control.
You can look at the text of a button or the label of a textbox.
You find whatever you can that won't change.On Windows, use AutoIT [autoitscript.com] if you want something free.
There's better commercial tools but they start in the hundreds of dollars and only go up from there.For web automation, look at watir [watir.com], WebDriver/Selenium [google.com], or WatiN [sourceforge.net].On Macs you get these nice tools called AppleScript and Automator.
These are made for end users.
They don't use the UI, but instead use an interface made just for automation.If you can at all avoid it, I recommend not using image recognition tools.
They're extremely fragile.
That said, sometimes it can't be avoided.
I'll probably take a look at the source to see if there's anything I can use in those few cases where image recognition is unavoidable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855490</id>
	<title>fuCk!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264087320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>parties, but here a change to though I have never being GAY NIGGERS. during Play, this development model GNAA and support</htmltext>
<tokenext>parties , but here a change to though I have never being GAY NIGGERS .
during Play , this development model GNAA and support</tokentext>
<sentencetext>parties, but here a change to though I have never being GAY NIGGERS.
during Play, this development model GNAA and support</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851842</id>
	<title>MMO macro maker?</title>
	<author>visgoth</author>
	<datestamp>1264069920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>This looks like a powerful tool for gold / isk / whatever farming. I'm tempted to resurrect my eve account and see if I can make an auto-miner script.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This looks like a powerful tool for gold / isk / whatever farming .
I 'm tempted to resurrect my eve account and see if I can make an auto-miner script .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This looks like a powerful tool for gold / isk / whatever farming.
I'm tempted to resurrect my eve account and see if I can make an auto-miner script.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853122</id>
	<title>Its a brilliant idea.</title>
	<author>Seor Jojoba</author>
	<datestamp>1264074000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Come on, let's cut through the default Slashdot snark.  The image capture aspect of Sikuli is brilliant!  I don't like the tagline "program anything with Sikuli" because 99\% of software should be written in something else.  But think of writing test scripts that can use the image matching features.  If the software works as advertised, then you could throw together UI test cases way faster than anything else I've seen.  System administration tasks should be a good match too.  The resulting code would be brittle and hard to maintain, but for quick one-off scripts, sure...  I can see it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Come on , let 's cut through the default Slashdot snark .
The image capture aspect of Sikuli is brilliant !
I do n't like the tagline " program anything with Sikuli " because 99 \ % of software should be written in something else .
But think of writing test scripts that can use the image matching features .
If the software works as advertised , then you could throw together UI test cases way faster than anything else I 've seen .
System administration tasks should be a good match too .
The resulting code would be brittle and hard to maintain , but for quick one-off scripts , sure... I can see it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come on, let's cut through the default Slashdot snark.
The image capture aspect of Sikuli is brilliant!
I don't like the tagline "program anything with Sikuli" because 99\% of software should be written in something else.
But think of writing test scripts that can use the image matching features.
If the software works as advertised, then you could throw together UI test cases way faster than anything else I've seen.
System administration tasks should be a good match too.
The resulting code would be brittle and hard to maintain, but for quick one-off scripts, sure...  I can see it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856116</id>
	<title>Reminded me of HyperCard</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264092960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For some reason this suddenly reminded me of HyperCard.  Anyway, I think there's definitely a desire for this sort of thing out there.  From the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercard" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia article on HyperCard</a> [wikipedia.org]...</p><p><i>HyperCard has been described as a "software erector set." It integrates a software development environment with a run-time environment in a simple, easily accessible way. The tools required to write an application, principally the creation and configuration of screen objects like buttons, fields and menus, are part and parcel with the ability to add programmed functionality to those objects.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... "Empowerment" became a catchword as this possibility was embraced by the Macintosh community, as was the phrase <b>"programming for the rest of us", that is, anyone, not just professional programmers.</b> </i></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For some reason this suddenly reminded me of HyperCard .
Anyway , I think there 's definitely a desire for this sort of thing out there .
From the Wikipedia article on HyperCard [ wikipedia.org ] ...HyperCard has been described as a " software erector set .
" It integrates a software development environment with a run-time environment in a simple , easily accessible way .
The tools required to write an application , principally the creation and configuration of screen objects like buttons , fields and menus , are part and parcel with the ability to add programmed functionality to those objects .
... " Empowerment " became a catchword as this possibility was embraced by the Macintosh community , as was the phrase " programming for the rest of us " , that is , anyone , not just professional programmers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For some reason this suddenly reminded me of HyperCard.
Anyway, I think there's definitely a desire for this sort of thing out there.
From the Wikipedia article on HyperCard [wikipedia.org]...HyperCard has been described as a "software erector set.
" It integrates a software development environment with a run-time environment in a simple, easily accessible way.
The tools required to write an application, principally the creation and configuration of screen objects like buttons, fields and menus, are part and parcel with the ability to add programmed functionality to those objects.
... "Empowerment" became a catchword as this possibility was embraced by the Macintosh community, as was the phrase "programming for the rest of us", that is, anyone, not just professional programmers. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852378</id>
	<title>bad VB flashbacks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264071540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm suddenly reminded of horrible apps written in VB97, with no concern for the back end, horrible input kludge, etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm suddenly reminded of horrible apps written in VB97 , with no concern for the back end , horrible input kludge , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm suddenly reminded of horrible apps written in VB97, with no concern for the back end, horrible input kludge, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855292</id>
	<title>What's so wrong with TurboTax?</title>
	<author>AardvarkCelery</author>
	<datestamp>1264085400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some accountants seem to think everyone needs to learn accounting in order to function in society.  But people have other jobs.  Some of us like our dumbed down tools because they fill a need.  My tax software lets me do my taxes without learning "proper" accounting.  Similarly, I know some people who benefit greatly from a little passing knowledge of high-level scripting languages like VB, JavaScript, or even Python.</p><p>For those kinds of people, Sikuli looks pretty cool because they can do things that would be pretty difficult otherwise.  Hey, even for a lot of experienced programmers, capturing a region of the screen and doing fuzzy pattern matching might be a significant task.  I haven't tried Sikuli yet, but it looks like it would be very helpful for some things, and a lot easier to deal with than AutoIt or AutoHotkey.</p><p>(BTW, TurboTax was just an example.  I actually use something I like better, but you get the idea.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some accountants seem to think everyone needs to learn accounting in order to function in society .
But people have other jobs .
Some of us like our dumbed down tools because they fill a need .
My tax software lets me do my taxes without learning " proper " accounting .
Similarly , I know some people who benefit greatly from a little passing knowledge of high-level scripting languages like VB , JavaScript , or even Python.For those kinds of people , Sikuli looks pretty cool because they can do things that would be pretty difficult otherwise .
Hey , even for a lot of experienced programmers , capturing a region of the screen and doing fuzzy pattern matching might be a significant task .
I have n't tried Sikuli yet , but it looks like it would be very helpful for some things , and a lot easier to deal with than AutoIt or AutoHotkey .
( BTW , TurboTax was just an example .
I actually use something I like better , but you get the idea .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some accountants seem to think everyone needs to learn accounting in order to function in society.
But people have other jobs.
Some of us like our dumbed down tools because they fill a need.
My tax software lets me do my taxes without learning "proper" accounting.
Similarly, I know some people who benefit greatly from a little passing knowledge of high-level scripting languages like VB, JavaScript, or even Python.For those kinds of people, Sikuli looks pretty cool because they can do things that would be pretty difficult otherwise.
Hey, even for a lot of experienced programmers, capturing a region of the screen and doing fuzzy pattern matching might be a significant task.
I haven't tried Sikuli yet, but it looks like it would be very helpful for some things, and a lot easier to deal with than AutoIt or AutoHotkey.
(BTW, TurboTax was just an example.
I actually use something I like better, but you get the idea.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30860132</id>
	<title>Associative Arrays indexed by a Freakin' Image</title>
	<author>awol</author>
	<datestamp>1264179300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to say I am impressed. I have had a play with some of the demos and I like what I see. Whilst I agree that there are limitations this project seems fantastic.</p><p>Having tried and failed to use "win runner" in the past due to the complexity of the GUI application I was testing, this scripting would get past the problems we were having.</p><p>I can envisage sending canned scripts to my folks for doing maintenance on their own machine, even just some diagnostics that I find hard to do over the phone.</p><p>I have a couple of itches of my own that I reckon I could scratch with this, for example I have a macbook that I sometimes attach to an external display. Sometimes the external is on the left of my laptop, sometimes the right, sometimes directly above it would be cool to have a script that allowed me to just click an icon to arrange the displays appropriately. Sikuli is close. I am about to go off and see if that will work.</p><p>I mean they have associative arrays indexed by a freaking picture. That is simply, well, paradigm shifting. I am less concerned about the actual efficacy of Sikuli than I am about the ability to hook applications together through their GUI. I am thinking about something like "GUI pipes" which is something I have been thinking about for some time. Mark III of this stuff could be amazing.</p><p>I honestly think this project is potentially awesome, in the olden days, before the net was quite so pervasive we used to talk about using the RussTerm, which was basically getting our guy on the ground in a foreigh country (Russell) to type stuff on the machine he was looking at whilst we talked him through it over the phone, mostly because we could not automate the stuff we wanted to do. This would address many of the use cases for which similar requirements might exist today. That's just one idea that occurs off the top of my head.</p><p>Many posters have noted that much of this functionality exists already in tools like; AutoIt, AutoHotKey, some numpty even mentioned sendkeys in VB. But these people have missed the point, until now its all been very "Goto X,Y -&gt; Click" not "find(Thing).click()". Even things like WinRunner or RationalTest seem, in my experience to be far to rigid to be useful. I can see how I would have used this tool to do much good work for our software back when I was demoing, devloping and testing stuff.</p><p>That it is wrapped in a nice scripting language as well just makes it even better.</p><p>I'm off to see how good it actually is....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to say I am impressed .
I have had a play with some of the demos and I like what I see .
Whilst I agree that there are limitations this project seems fantastic.Having tried and failed to use " win runner " in the past due to the complexity of the GUI application I was testing , this scripting would get past the problems we were having.I can envisage sending canned scripts to my folks for doing maintenance on their own machine , even just some diagnostics that I find hard to do over the phone.I have a couple of itches of my own that I reckon I could scratch with this , for example I have a macbook that I sometimes attach to an external display .
Sometimes the external is on the left of my laptop , sometimes the right , sometimes directly above it would be cool to have a script that allowed me to just click an icon to arrange the displays appropriately .
Sikuli is close .
I am about to go off and see if that will work.I mean they have associative arrays indexed by a freaking picture .
That is simply , well , paradigm shifting .
I am less concerned about the actual efficacy of Sikuli than I am about the ability to hook applications together through their GUI .
I am thinking about something like " GUI pipes " which is something I have been thinking about for some time .
Mark III of this stuff could be amazing.I honestly think this project is potentially awesome , in the olden days , before the net was quite so pervasive we used to talk about using the RussTerm , which was basically getting our guy on the ground in a foreigh country ( Russell ) to type stuff on the machine he was looking at whilst we talked him through it over the phone , mostly because we could not automate the stuff we wanted to do .
This would address many of the use cases for which similar requirements might exist today .
That 's just one idea that occurs off the top of my head.Many posters have noted that much of this functionality exists already in tools like ; AutoIt , AutoHotKey , some numpty even mentioned sendkeys in VB .
But these people have missed the point , until now its all been very " Goto X,Y - &gt; Click " not " find ( Thing ) .click ( ) " .
Even things like WinRunner or RationalTest seem , in my experience to be far to rigid to be useful .
I can see how I would have used this tool to do much good work for our software back when I was demoing , devloping and testing stuff.That it is wrapped in a nice scripting language as well just makes it even better.I 'm off to see how good it actually is... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to say I am impressed.
I have had a play with some of the demos and I like what I see.
Whilst I agree that there are limitations this project seems fantastic.Having tried and failed to use "win runner" in the past due to the complexity of the GUI application I was testing, this scripting would get past the problems we were having.I can envisage sending canned scripts to my folks for doing maintenance on their own machine, even just some diagnostics that I find hard to do over the phone.I have a couple of itches of my own that I reckon I could scratch with this, for example I have a macbook that I sometimes attach to an external display.
Sometimes the external is on the left of my laptop, sometimes the right, sometimes directly above it would be cool to have a script that allowed me to just click an icon to arrange the displays appropriately.
Sikuli is close.
I am about to go off and see if that will work.I mean they have associative arrays indexed by a freaking picture.
That is simply, well, paradigm shifting.
I am less concerned about the actual efficacy of Sikuli than I am about the ability to hook applications together through their GUI.
I am thinking about something like "GUI pipes" which is something I have been thinking about for some time.
Mark III of this stuff could be amazing.I honestly think this project is potentially awesome, in the olden days, before the net was quite so pervasive we used to talk about using the RussTerm, which was basically getting our guy on the ground in a foreigh country (Russell) to type stuff on the machine he was looking at whilst we talked him through it over the phone, mostly because we could not automate the stuff we wanted to do.
This would address many of the use cases for which similar requirements might exist today.
That's just one idea that occurs off the top of my head.Many posters have noted that much of this functionality exists already in tools like; AutoIt, AutoHotKey, some numpty even mentioned sendkeys in VB.
But these people have missed the point, until now its all been very "Goto X,Y -&gt; Click" not "find(Thing).click()".
Even things like WinRunner or RationalTest seem, in my experience to be far to rigid to be useful.
I can see how I would have used this tool to do much good work for our software back when I was demoing, devloping and testing stuff.That it is wrapped in a nice scripting language as well just makes it even better.I'm off to see how good it actually is....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853034</id>
	<title>Re:MMO macro maker?</title>
	<author>burkmat</author>
	<datestamp>1264073760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know how much experience you have in EVE, but generally, if you're AFK you're dead meat. Suiciding miners even in hisec is quite fashionable these days.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know how much experience you have in EVE , but generally , if you 're AFK you 're dead meat .
Suiciding miners even in hisec is quite fashionable these days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know how much experience you have in EVE, but generally, if you're AFK you're dead meat.
Suiciding miners even in hisec is quite fashionable these days.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851842</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852422</id>
	<title>Re:Potential</title>
	<author>gad\_zuki!</author>
	<datestamp>1264071660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;This seems like AutoIT but with image recognition (instead of having to input mouse coordinates).</p><p>Right, its AutoHotKey/AutoIT with a nicer OCR library. Perhaps this will light the fire under the butts of the AutoHotKey devs and add in some smarter screen reading and browser integration.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; This seems like AutoIT but with image recognition ( instead of having to input mouse coordinates ) .Right , its AutoHotKey/AutoIT with a nicer OCR library .
Perhaps this will light the fire under the butts of the AutoHotKey devs and add in some smarter screen reading and browser integration .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;This seems like AutoIT but with image recognition (instead of having to input mouse coordinates).Right, its AutoHotKey/AutoIT with a nicer OCR library.
Perhaps this will light the fire under the butts of the AutoHotKey devs and add in some smarter screen reading and browser integration.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853516</id>
	<title>Re:FrontPage?</title>
	<author>idontgno</author>
	<datestamp>1264075500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>Why should we piss on the DIY'ers because they dont have a Master's degree in CS? Frankly, a lot of computer stuff is pretty easy and paying someone is ridiculous.</i> </p><p>Thousands of cars on cinderblocks and dozens of houses with flooded basements are testimony that sometimes, paying someone is the only thing that isn't ridiculous. There's DIY, and there's "OMG you are SO in over your head." Anyone whose software development abilities are so stunted that the "advancement" outlined in TFA would help them is absolutely in the latter category.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why should we piss on the DIY'ers because they dont have a Master 's degree in CS ?
Frankly , a lot of computer stuff is pretty easy and paying someone is ridiculous .
Thousands of cars on cinderblocks and dozens of houses with flooded basements are testimony that sometimes , paying someone is the only thing that is n't ridiculous .
There 's DIY , and there 's " OMG you are SO in over your head .
" Anyone whose software development abilities are so stunted that the " advancement " outlined in TFA would help them is absolutely in the latter category .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Why should we piss on the DIY'ers because they dont have a Master's degree in CS?
Frankly, a lot of computer stuff is pretty easy and paying someone is ridiculous.
Thousands of cars on cinderblocks and dozens of houses with flooded basements are testimony that sometimes, paying someone is the only thing that isn't ridiculous.
There's DIY, and there's "OMG you are SO in over your head.
" Anyone whose software development abilities are so stunted that the "advancement" outlined in TFA would help them is absolutely in the latter category.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855796</id>
	<title>Re:My grandmother knows python</title>
	<author>AardvarkCelery</author>
	<datestamp>1264089900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>If a friend wanted to learn just enough programming to do a few light chores, what would you recommend?  Python is arguably one of the easiest languages to learn.  Randy Pausch used it for <a href="http://www.alice.org/" title="alice.org" rel="nofollow">Alice</a> [alice.org], which has been successful for teaching middle school girls how to program.  So if "computer users with rudimentary skills" means rudimentary programming, then that works for me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If a friend wanted to learn just enough programming to do a few light chores , what would you recommend ?
Python is arguably one of the easiest languages to learn .
Randy Pausch used it for Alice [ alice.org ] , which has been successful for teaching middle school girls how to program .
So if " computer users with rudimentary skills " means rudimentary programming , then that works for me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a friend wanted to learn just enough programming to do a few light chores, what would you recommend?
Python is arguably one of the easiest languages to learn.
Randy Pausch used it for Alice [alice.org], which has been successful for teaching middle school girls how to program.
So if "computer users with rudimentary skills" means rudimentary programming, then that works for me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851964</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30862104</id>
	<title>I'd suggest AutoIT3 for this kind of thing</title>
	<author>Oneamp</author>
	<datestamp>1264189980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's an interesting idea, but if you're serious about automating Windows, I heartily recommend AutoIT3.   <a href="http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/" title="autoitscript.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/</a> [autoitscript.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's an interesting idea , but if you 're serious about automating Windows , I heartily recommend AutoIT3 .
http : //www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/ [ autoitscript.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's an interesting idea, but if you're serious about automating Windows, I heartily recommend AutoIT3.
http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/ [autoitscript.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856072</id>
	<title>Re:Program, NOT code. Think MACRO</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264092480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Macro's" ?!? Don't leave us hanging. Macro's what? Macro's pants? Macro's speed? Oh wait, you meant "macros".</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Macro 's " ? ! ?
Do n't leave us hanging .
Macro 's what ?
Macro 's pants ?
Macro 's speed ?
Oh wait , you meant " macros " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Macro's" ?!?
Don't leave us hanging.
Macro's what?
Macro's pants?
Macro's speed?
Oh wait, you meant "macros".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852232</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30859892</id>
	<title>Re:Potential</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264178220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Abstraction is definitely your friend in automated testing, but image recognition is still the least maintainable way of interfacing with a UI. Any change to the UI requires fixing up your framework. That takes time that a smarter framework would not need.</p><p>Imagine there's a an input button on a webpage with an ID of submit and the text submit on it. Now, the text is changed from submit to OK. A smart framework that hooked on the id doesn't need to be updated at all. With an image recognition framework you need to go to that button in the UI and take your new screenshot. How long does it take to navigate to the button to begin with?</p><p>Now the next day the style changes. Your button is no longer square and gray, but round and blue. The smart framework still doesn't need an update. With the image recognition framework you need to update your screenshot again.</p><p>The next day the id changes. With the smart framework you change the mapping. With an image recognition framework you have to navigate and take your screenshot <em>again</em>.</p><p>GUIs change way too much to have to be continually updating your mapping. Don't use image recognition if you can avoid it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Abstraction is definitely your friend in automated testing , but image recognition is still the least maintainable way of interfacing with a UI .
Any change to the UI requires fixing up your framework .
That takes time that a smarter framework would not need.Imagine there 's a an input button on a webpage with an ID of submit and the text submit on it .
Now , the text is changed from submit to OK. A smart framework that hooked on the id does n't need to be updated at all .
With an image recognition framework you need to go to that button in the UI and take your new screenshot .
How long does it take to navigate to the button to begin with ? Now the next day the style changes .
Your button is no longer square and gray , but round and blue .
The smart framework still does n't need an update .
With the image recognition framework you need to update your screenshot again.The next day the id changes .
With the smart framework you change the mapping .
With an image recognition framework you have to navigate and take your screenshot again.GUIs change way too much to have to be continually updating your mapping .
Do n't use image recognition if you can avoid it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Abstraction is definitely your friend in automated testing, but image recognition is still the least maintainable way of interfacing with a UI.
Any change to the UI requires fixing up your framework.
That takes time that a smarter framework would not need.Imagine there's a an input button on a webpage with an ID of submit and the text submit on it.
Now, the text is changed from submit to OK. A smart framework that hooked on the id doesn't need to be updated at all.
With an image recognition framework you need to go to that button in the UI and take your new screenshot.
How long does it take to navigate to the button to begin with?Now the next day the style changes.
Your button is no longer square and gray, but round and blue.
The smart framework still doesn't need an update.
With the image recognition framework you need to update your screenshot again.The next day the id changes.
With the smart framework you change the mapping.
With an image recognition framework you have to navigate and take your screenshot again.GUIs change way too much to have to be continually updating your mapping.
Don't use image recognition if you can avoid it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852256</id>
	<title>Re:Better</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1264071180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can think of at least 3 ways of doing (scripting gui apps that aren't scriptable) already that have been around for years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can think of at least 3 ways of doing ( scripting gui apps that are n't scriptable ) already that have been around for years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can think of at least 3 ways of doing (scripting gui apps that aren't scriptable) already that have been around for years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853118</id>
	<title>Applescript was invented a LONG time ago people...</title>
	<author>RocketRabbit</author>
	<datestamp>1264074000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It can script GUI actions in much the same way.  Granted it's not a very nice environment for more complicated work, but still.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It can script GUI actions in much the same way .
Granted it 's not a very nice environment for more complicated work , but still .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It can script GUI actions in much the same way.
Granted it's not a very nice environment for more complicated work, but still.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852456</id>
	<title>Re:How easy IS it?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264071840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, no one has watched the movie <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0244244/" title="imdb.com">Swordfish</a> [imdb.com] have they?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , no one has watched the movie Swordfish [ imdb.com ] have they ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, no one has watched the movie Swordfish [imdb.com] have they?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852278</id>
	<title>Re:Potential</title>
	<author>Jonah Hex</author>
	<datestamp>1264071240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Watching the YouTube demo, I immediately thought of how basic this is compared to AutoIT's functions, and even the quick record function is faster to "program" with than this screenshot function.</p><p>It says it can tolerate some changes, but what if there is a completely different visual theme installed? What if a drop down is not on the same item it was when you made the script? AutoIT can take care of this by reading the underlying GUI code to allow for these kind of things. As someone who has been automating OS/Software installs since before Windows, I know you can not expect things to work the same way every time when doing so.</p><p>Jonah HEX</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Watching the YouTube demo , I immediately thought of how basic this is compared to AutoIT 's functions , and even the quick record function is faster to " program " with than this screenshot function.It says it can tolerate some changes , but what if there is a completely different visual theme installed ?
What if a drop down is not on the same item it was when you made the script ?
AutoIT can take care of this by reading the underlying GUI code to allow for these kind of things .
As someone who has been automating OS/Software installs since before Windows , I know you can not expect things to work the same way every time when doing so.Jonah HEX</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Watching the YouTube demo, I immediately thought of how basic this is compared to AutoIT's functions, and even the quick record function is faster to "program" with than this screenshot function.It says it can tolerate some changes, but what if there is a completely different visual theme installed?
What if a drop down is not on the same item it was when you made the script?
AutoIT can take care of this by reading the underlying GUI code to allow for these kind of things.
As someone who has been automating OS/Software installs since before Windows, I know you can not expect things to work the same way every time when doing so.Jonah HEX</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852232</id>
	<title>Program, NOT code. Think MACRO</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264071120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From what I seen is this a macro program that can use screenshots rather then key/mouse data to automate tasks. So you PROGRAM your PC in the same way you PROGRAM a VCR to record a show. It is NOT the same as writing an application.
</p><p>But it seems very intresting once you got past this difference. Macro's are very handy for testing in my experience but often have a problem because a tiny mis-alignment can ruin it all. If this program is smarter because it can regonize where data is supposed to go... well that would certainly make automated tests a bit easier.
</p><p>Interesting stuff. Just don't think you will be writing software with this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From what I seen is this a macro program that can use screenshots rather then key/mouse data to automate tasks .
So you PROGRAM your PC in the same way you PROGRAM a VCR to record a show .
It is NOT the same as writing an application .
But it seems very intresting once you got past this difference .
Macro 's are very handy for testing in my experience but often have a problem because a tiny mis-alignment can ruin it all .
If this program is smarter because it can regonize where data is supposed to go... well that would certainly make automated tests a bit easier .
Interesting stuff .
Just do n't think you will be writing software with this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From what I seen is this a macro program that can use screenshots rather then key/mouse data to automate tasks.
So you PROGRAM your PC in the same way you PROGRAM a VCR to record a show.
It is NOT the same as writing an application.
But it seems very intresting once you got past this difference.
Macro's are very handy for testing in my experience but often have a problem because a tiny mis-alignment can ruin it all.
If this program is smarter because it can regonize where data is supposed to go... well that would certainly make automated tests a bit easier.
Interesting stuff.
Just don't think you will be writing software with this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30857606</id>
	<title>Cool, but it has severe downsides.</title>
	<author>mrjb</author>
	<datestamp>1264156680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The idea is cool and innovative, and makes automating a point-and-click interface a breeze. It certainly has applications. <br> <br>

But overall, it just seems like a Bad Idea. It will be as reliable as screen-scraping in browsers and would therefore be wise to be avoided, and for the same reasons.<br> <br>

Even just changing the theme of your OS or the icon sizes could well be enough to confuse the image processing. The code won't be portable, and in the end, for anything but the most simple tasks, the person using it would still require some programming skills. Because of this, I think between Sikuli and command-line scripting,  command-line scripting has more staying power.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The idea is cool and innovative , and makes automating a point-and-click interface a breeze .
It certainly has applications .
But overall , it just seems like a Bad Idea .
It will be as reliable as screen-scraping in browsers and would therefore be wise to be avoided , and for the same reasons .
Even just changing the theme of your OS or the icon sizes could well be enough to confuse the image processing .
The code wo n't be portable , and in the end , for anything but the most simple tasks , the person using it would still require some programming skills .
Because of this , I think between Sikuli and command-line scripting , command-line scripting has more staying power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The idea is cool and innovative, and makes automating a point-and-click interface a breeze.
It certainly has applications.
But overall, it just seems like a Bad Idea.
It will be as reliable as screen-scraping in browsers and would therefore be wise to be avoided, and for the same reasons.
Even just changing the theme of your OS or the icon sizes could well be enough to confuse the image processing.
The code won't be portable, and in the end, for anything but the most simple tasks, the person using it would still require some programming skills.
Because of this, I think between Sikuli and command-line scripting,  command-line scripting has more staying power.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855842</id>
	<title>Spammers Rejoice!</title>
	<author>VortexCortex</author>
	<datestamp>1264090140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just Great... all the spammers need now is a few CAPTCHA deciphering Sikuli plug ins.</p><p>Once that's done we can all go back to manually removing spam from our web forums and in-boxes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just Great... all the spammers need now is a few CAPTCHA deciphering Sikuli plug ins.Once that 's done we can all go back to manually removing spam from our web forums and in-boxes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just Great... all the spammers need now is a few CAPTCHA deciphering Sikuli plug ins.Once that's done we can all go back to manually removing spam from our web forums and in-boxes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804</id>
	<title>Potential</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264069800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Especially for Testing your GUI.</p><p>This seems like AutoIT but with image recognition (instead of having to input mouse coordinates).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Especially for Testing your GUI.This seems like AutoIT but with image recognition ( instead of having to input mouse coordinates ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Especially for Testing your GUI.This seems like AutoIT but with image recognition (instead of having to input mouse coordinates).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854624</id>
	<title>Re:lame</title>
	<author>sky289hawk1</author>
	<datestamp>1264080780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The sikuli language supports fuzziness. You can actually have a "close match", and you can set the tolerance.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The sikuli language supports fuzziness .
You can actually have a " close match " , and you can set the tolerance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sikuli language supports fuzziness.
You can actually have a "close match", and you can set the tolerance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853434</id>
	<title>fork bomb, or loop?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264075200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Has anyone tried writing a Sikuli script that finds the Sikuli IDE window and clicks the green run button?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone tried writing a Sikuli script that finds the Sikuli IDE window and clicks the green run button ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone tried writing a Sikuli script that finds the Sikuli IDE window and clicks the green run button?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30858452</id>
	<title>Re:My grandmother knows python</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264168800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's right. Now your grandmother will be able to write a program to configure her IP address, instead of doing it manually.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's right .
Now your grandmother will be able to write a program to configure her IP address , instead of doing it manually .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's right.
Now your grandmother will be able to write a program to configure her IP address, instead of doing it manually.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851964</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855856</id>
	<title>Bobby Tables</title>
	<author>gmuslera</author>
	<datestamp>1264090260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How you sanitize your inputs in a language that checks what is displayed on the screen? Instead of xss or sql injection you could end being hacked by watching a mail attached normal picture if that kind of programming becomes popular.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How you sanitize your inputs in a language that checks what is displayed on the screen ?
Instead of xss or sql injection you could end being hacked by watching a mail attached normal picture if that kind of programming becomes popular .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How you sanitize your inputs in a language that checks what is displayed on the screen?
Instead of xss or sql injection you could end being hacked by watching a mail attached normal picture if that kind of programming becomes popular.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30862752</id>
	<title>Re:FrontPage?</title>
	<author>thetoadwarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1264193760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>HTML and CSS is pretty easy to learn, at least enough to produce the shit people produce with front-page.
<br> <br>
Sikuli is good though it would appear it takes control of your computer so really it's pretty useless aside from dong batch repetitive jobs. You can probably get around that by learning more Python but the demo didn't interest me but I'm sure loads of people will love it for automating tasks.
<br> <br>
Front-page on the other hand was awful and produced loads of awful sites that unfortunately affect more people. When it's a personal site that's fine but when you used to get businesses knocking out shit websites in frontpage, I don't think anyone can justify it by comparing it to DIY jobs or saying web develops are expensive. Companies should consider some level of accessibility and you'll never really get that from front page. If you learn to do html, css and JavaScript then just do it in Notepad++
<br> <br>
And no one *needs* a master in CS. A lot of professional developers don't.</htmltext>
<tokenext>HTML and CSS is pretty easy to learn , at least enough to produce the shit people produce with front-page .
Sikuli is good though it would appear it takes control of your computer so really it 's pretty useless aside from dong batch repetitive jobs .
You can probably get around that by learning more Python but the demo did n't interest me but I 'm sure loads of people will love it for automating tasks .
Front-page on the other hand was awful and produced loads of awful sites that unfortunately affect more people .
When it 's a personal site that 's fine but when you used to get businesses knocking out shit websites in frontpage , I do n't think anyone can justify it by comparing it to DIY jobs or saying web develops are expensive .
Companies should consider some level of accessibility and you 'll never really get that from front page .
If you learn to do html , css and JavaScript then just do it in Notepad + + And no one * needs * a master in CS .
A lot of professional developers do n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>HTML and CSS is pretty easy to learn, at least enough to produce the shit people produce with front-page.
Sikuli is good though it would appear it takes control of your computer so really it's pretty useless aside from dong batch repetitive jobs.
You can probably get around that by learning more Python but the demo didn't interest me but I'm sure loads of people will love it for automating tasks.
Front-page on the other hand was awful and produced loads of awful sites that unfortunately affect more people.
When it's a personal site that's fine but when you used to get businesses knocking out shit websites in frontpage, I don't think anyone can justify it by comparing it to DIY jobs or saying web develops are expensive.
Companies should consider some level of accessibility and you'll never really get that from front page.
If you learn to do html, css and JavaScript then just do it in Notepad++
 
And no one *needs* a master in CS.
A lot of professional developers don't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852420</id>
	<title>Re:Potential</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1264071660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The MS test crap in the latest versions of VisualStudio do it as well, and they'll be happy to find a button (if its a standard control) to click on using other data rather than mouse coordinates as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The MS test crap in the latest versions of VisualStudio do it as well , and they 'll be happy to find a button ( if its a standard control ) to click on using other data rather than mouse coordinates as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The MS test crap in the latest versions of VisualStudio do it as well, and they'll be happy to find a button (if its a standard control) to click on using other data rather than mouse coordinates as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855630</id>
	<title>Re:lame</title>
	<author>mattack2</author>
	<datestamp>1264088400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I didn't RTFA, but basing this stuff on the *accessibility* view of the screen is/can be useful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did n't RTFA , but basing this stuff on the * accessibility * view of the screen is/can be useful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I didn't RTFA, but basing this stuff on the *accessibility* view of the screen is/can be useful.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856570</id>
	<title>Is this really a new idea?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264097880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How is this any different than Automate?  That has been around for many years and based on the MIT video it appears that automate is much easier to use.</p><p>http://www.networkautomation.com/automate/7/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How is this any different than Automate ?
That has been around for many years and based on the MIT video it appears that automate is much easier to use.http : //www.networkautomation.com/automate/7/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is this any different than Automate?
That has been around for many years and based on the MIT video it appears that automate is much easier to use.http://www.networkautomation.com/automate/7/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854674</id>
	<title>You're doing it wrong.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264080960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you have to write a script to automate GUI applications you're undermining the purpose of computers.  I'm sitting here imagining people automating  deletion.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have to write a script to automate GUI applications you 're undermining the purpose of computers .
I 'm sitting here imagining people automating deletion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have to write a script to automate GUI applications you're undermining the purpose of computers.
I'm sitting here imagining people automating  deletion.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852164</id>
	<title>Expect</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264070880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a GUI version of Expect. Nothing really groundbreaking. It will also break as soon as the app changes how it looks, just like Expect. I hate expect passionately.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a GUI version of Expect .
Nothing really groundbreaking .
It will also break as soon as the app changes how it looks , just like Expect .
I hate expect passionately .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a GUI version of Expect.
Nothing really groundbreaking.
It will also break as soon as the app changes how it looks, just like Expect.
I hate expect passionately.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855256</id>
	<title>Re:Better</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264085160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just remember to never change themes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just remember to never change themes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just remember to never change themes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30862330</id>
	<title>Re:FrontPage?</title>
	<author>cyberthanasis12</author>
	<datestamp>1264191300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Do you want to democratize technology or just have it controlled by elites? Non-techies want to do things like scripting...</p></div><p>You make the implicit assumption that windows and icons and clicks are easier for non-techies. I am afraid it is not so. The non-techies are functional human beings and they are able to understand ordinary scripts. And it is actually easier to learn text than icons.</p><p>
I am not making this up. Back in the early 90's, when windows was novel, many times I sold computers to complete novices. What is saw was that it was easier for them to understand commands (DOS style) than icons (windows) style. It took them much time to get accustomed with icons, buttons pull down menus (for example, "in which menu is the replace command? why can't I type replace and do the job").</p><p>
The same thing happened to me when a friend bought a macintosh and told me how "easy" was to operate the machine. I could not figure out how to remove a file. When my friend opened the file manager, clicked on the file (holding the mouse button pressed), and dragged it to an icon, which was the "garbage", I could not believe how time consuming, clumsy and unintuitive it was. Of course, after years of getting accustomed to windows, it was straightforward to learn the Mac too.
</p><p>Off topic, what happens if you try to run the Sikuli script to a computer with different resolution, or different font, or different (customized) icons.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you want to democratize technology or just have it controlled by elites ?
Non-techies want to do things like scripting...You make the implicit assumption that windows and icons and clicks are easier for non-techies .
I am afraid it is not so .
The non-techies are functional human beings and they are able to understand ordinary scripts .
And it is actually easier to learn text than icons .
I am not making this up .
Back in the early 90 's , when windows was novel , many times I sold computers to complete novices .
What is saw was that it was easier for them to understand commands ( DOS style ) than icons ( windows ) style .
It took them much time to get accustomed with icons , buttons pull down menus ( for example , " in which menu is the replace command ?
why ca n't I type replace and do the job " ) .
The same thing happened to me when a friend bought a macintosh and told me how " easy " was to operate the machine .
I could not figure out how to remove a file .
When my friend opened the file manager , clicked on the file ( holding the mouse button pressed ) , and dragged it to an icon , which was the " garbage " , I could not believe how time consuming , clumsy and unintuitive it was .
Of course , after years of getting accustomed to windows , it was straightforward to learn the Mac too .
Off topic , what happens if you try to run the Sikuli script to a computer with different resolution , or different font , or different ( customized ) icons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you want to democratize technology or just have it controlled by elites?
Non-techies want to do things like scripting...You make the implicit assumption that windows and icons and clicks are easier for non-techies.
I am afraid it is not so.
The non-techies are functional human beings and they are able to understand ordinary scripts.
And it is actually easier to learn text than icons.
I am not making this up.
Back in the early 90's, when windows was novel, many times I sold computers to complete novices.
What is saw was that it was easier for them to understand commands (DOS style) than icons (windows) style.
It took them much time to get accustomed with icons, buttons pull down menus (for example, "in which menu is the replace command?
why can't I type replace and do the job").
The same thing happened to me when a friend bought a macintosh and told me how "easy" was to operate the machine.
I could not figure out how to remove a file.
When my friend opened the file manager, clicked on the file (holding the mouse button pressed), and dragged it to an icon, which was the "garbage", I could not believe how time consuming, clumsy and unintuitive it was.
Of course, after years of getting accustomed to windows, it was straightforward to learn the Mac too.
Off topic, what happens if you try to run the Sikuli script to a computer with different resolution, or different font, or different (customized) icons.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852390</id>
	<title>Fr0s7 pist</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264071540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">big pIcture. What way. It used to be</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>big pIcture .
What way .
It used to be [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>big pIcture.
What way.
It used to be [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30866132</id>
	<title>Re:Program, NOT code. Think MACRO</title>
	<author>listentoreason</author>
	<datestamp>1264171620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I could not get it to run on Vista64, but my impression is the same; it allows you to write macros that target GUI components by fuzzy graphical matching of little screen shot snippets to what is currently on the screen. They provide an (unfortunately somewhat tedious) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/FxDOlhysFcM&amp;fs=1&amp;rel=0&amp;hd=1&amp;iframe=true&amp;width=640&amp;height=505" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">video demo</a> [youtube.com] that illustrates what it does.</p><p>It would be a boon for working with Lightroom, which has horrific keybindings; no way to rebind keys, and many common functions that have no keys at all (like red-eye reduction, where you must interact with a graphical element). I have been able to get around some of this with <a href="http://www.autohotkey.com/" title="autohotkey.com" rel="nofollow">AutoHotKey</a> [autohotkey.com], but I'd love to be able to bind a hotkey to a mouse click on a specific GUI component, regardless of it's current absolute x,y coordinate on my screen. That's exactly what Sikuli is supposed to do.</p><p>I really wish Adobe would co-opt the awesome <a href="http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/11192.html" title="novell.com" rel="nofollow">dynamic key rebinding</a> [novell.com] mechanism Gimp uses<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I could not get it to run on Vista64 , but my impression is the same ; it allows you to write macros that target GUI components by fuzzy graphical matching of little screen shot snippets to what is currently on the screen .
They provide an ( unfortunately somewhat tedious ) video demo [ youtube.com ] that illustrates what it does.It would be a boon for working with Lightroom , which has horrific keybindings ; no way to rebind keys , and many common functions that have no keys at all ( like red-eye reduction , where you must interact with a graphical element ) .
I have been able to get around some of this with AutoHotKey [ autohotkey.com ] , but I 'd love to be able to bind a hotkey to a mouse click on a specific GUI component , regardless of it 's current absolute x,y coordinate on my screen .
That 's exactly what Sikuli is supposed to do.I really wish Adobe would co-opt the awesome dynamic key rebinding [ novell.com ] mechanism Gimp uses .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I could not get it to run on Vista64, but my impression is the same; it allows you to write macros that target GUI components by fuzzy graphical matching of little screen shot snippets to what is currently on the screen.
They provide an (unfortunately somewhat tedious) video demo [youtube.com] that illustrates what it does.It would be a boon for working with Lightroom, which has horrific keybindings; no way to rebind keys, and many common functions that have no keys at all (like red-eye reduction, where you must interact with a graphical element).
I have been able to get around some of this with AutoHotKey [autohotkey.com], but I'd love to be able to bind a hotkey to a mouse click on a specific GUI component, regardless of it's current absolute x,y coordinate on my screen.
That's exactly what Sikuli is supposed to do.I really wish Adobe would co-opt the awesome dynamic key rebinding [novell.com] mechanism Gimp uses ...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852232</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852056</id>
	<title>High?</title>
	<author>instagib</author>
	<datestamp>1264070520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FTFA: "Sikuli -- which means God's eye in the language of the Huichol Indians in Mexico". Mexican Indians love their <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">hallucinogenic Peyote</a> [wikipedia.org]. On the other hand, MIT researchers want the masses to program with the mouse. Well, I know about "correlation is not causation", but MIT sure is an interesting place to be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FTFA : " Sikuli -- which means God 's eye in the language of the Huichol Indians in Mexico " .
Mexican Indians love their hallucinogenic Peyote [ wikipedia.org ] .
On the other hand , MIT researchers want the masses to program with the mouse .
Well , I know about " correlation is not causation " , but MIT sure is an interesting place to be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FTFA: "Sikuli -- which means God's eye in the language of the Huichol Indians in Mexico".
Mexican Indians love their hallucinogenic Peyote [wikipedia.org].
On the other hand, MIT researchers want the masses to program with the mouse.
Well, I know about "correlation is not causation", but MIT sure is an interesting place to be.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854796</id>
	<title>Re:Program, NOT code. Think MACRO</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264081680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly!  I'd love to see Sikuli's one new trick integrated into an existing, popular macroing system like AutoIt or AutoHotKey.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly !
I 'd love to see Sikuli 's one new trick integrated into an existing , popular macroing system like AutoIt or AutoHotKey .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly!
I'd love to see Sikuli's one new trick integrated into an existing, popular macroing system like AutoIt or AutoHotKey.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852232</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852032</id>
	<title>MIT can't afford real microphones</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264070460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The subtitles were a bit of a surprise. Can MIT not afford better than built in microphones on cheap laptops? Between her vaugely asian accent, the poor quality of the audio (seriously, you're TELLING people how to do something, the audio is important here - did they record this in a shower stall or something? my netbook's audio sounds 100x better than this), and then apparently some sort of wacky audio encoding basically makes her impossible to understand. People who speak english as a second language aren't going to be able to understand this, thank god they did the subtitles.<br>
&nbsp; <br>Neat concept though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The subtitles were a bit of a surprise .
Can MIT not afford better than built in microphones on cheap laptops ?
Between her vaugely asian accent , the poor quality of the audio ( seriously , you 're TELLING people how to do something , the audio is important here - did they record this in a shower stall or something ?
my netbook 's audio sounds 100x better than this ) , and then apparently some sort of wacky audio encoding basically makes her impossible to understand .
People who speak english as a second language are n't going to be able to understand this , thank god they did the subtitles .
  Neat concept though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The subtitles were a bit of a surprise.
Can MIT not afford better than built in microphones on cheap laptops?
Between her vaugely asian accent, the poor quality of the audio (seriously, you're TELLING people how to do something, the audio is important here - did they record this in a shower stall or something?
my netbook's audio sounds 100x better than this), and then apparently some sort of wacky audio encoding basically makes her impossible to understand.
People who speak english as a second language aren't going to be able to understand this, thank god they did the subtitles.
  Neat concept though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851616</id>
	<title>Fucking Communitst</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264069260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/books/04/27/ayn.rand.atlas.shrugged/index.html?eref=rss\_topstories" title="cnn.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/books/04/27/ayn.rand.atlas.shrugged/index.html?eref=rss\_topstories</a> [cnn.com] </p><p>For twelve years, you have been asking: Who is John Galt? This is John Galt speaking. I am the man who loves his life. I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values. I am the man who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world, and if you wish to know why you are perishing-you who dread knowledge-I am the man who will now tell you.' The chief engineer was the only one able to move; he ran to a television set and struggled frantically with its dials. But the screen remained empty; the speaker had not chosen to be seen. Only his voice filled the airways of the country-of the world, thought the chief engineer-sounding as if he were speaking here, in this room, not to a group, but to one man; it was not the tone of addressing a meeting, but the tone of addressing a mind.</p><p>"You have heard it said that this is an age of moral crisis. You have said it yourself, half in fear, half in hope that the words had no meaning. You have cried that man's sins are destroying the world and you have cursed human nature for its unwillingness to practice the virtues you demanded. Since virtue, to you, consists of sacrifice, you have demanded more sacrifices at every successive disaster. In the name of a return to morality, you have sacrificed all those evils which you held as the cause of your plight. You have sacrificed justice to mercy. You have sacrificed independence to unity. You have sacrificed reason to faith. You have sacrificed wealth to need. You have sacrificed self-esteem to self-denial. You have sacrificed happiness to duty.</p><p>"You have destroyed all that which you held to be evil and achieved all that which you held to be good. Why, then, do you shrink in horror from the sight of the world around you? That world is not the product of your sins, it is the product and the image of your virtues. It is your moral ideal brought into reality in its full and final perfection. You have fought for it, you have dreamed of it, and you have wished it, and I-I am the man who has granted you your wish.</p><p>"Your ideal had an implacable enemy, which your code of morality was designed to destroy. I have withdrawn that enemy. I have taken it out of your way and out of your reach. I have removed the source of all those evils you were sacrificing one by one. I have ended your battle. I have stopped your motor. I have deprived your world of man's mind.</p><p>"Men do not live by the mind, you say? I have withdrawn those who do. The mind is impotent, you say? I have withdrawn those whose mind isn't. There are values higher than the mind, you say? I have withdrawn those for whom there aren't.</p><p>"While you were dragging to your sacrificial altars the men of justice, of independence, of reason, of wealth, of self-esteem-I beat you to it, I reached them first. I told them the nature of the game you were playing and the nature of that moral code of yours, which they had been too innocently generous to grasp. I showed them the way to live by another morality-mine. It is mine that they chose to follow.</p><p>"All the men who have vanished, the men you hated, yet dreaded to lose, it is I who have taken them away from you. Do not attempt to find us. We do not choose to be found. Do not cry that it is our duty to serve you. We do not recognize such duty. Do not cry that you need us. We do not consider need a claim. Do not cry that you own us. You don't. Do not beg us to return. We are on strike, we, the men of the mind.</p><p>"We are on strike against self-immolation. We are on strike against the creed of unearned rewards and unrewarded duties. We are on strike against the dogma that the pursuit of one's happiness is evil. We are on strike against the doctrine that life is guilt.</p><p>"There is a difference between our strike and all those you've practiced for centuries: our strike consists, not of</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/books/04/27/ayn.rand.atlas.shrugged/index.html ? eref = rss \ _topstories [ cnn.com ] For twelve years , you have been asking : Who is John Galt ?
This is John Galt speaking .
I am the man who loves his life .
I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values .
I am the man who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world , and if you wish to know why you are perishing-you who dread knowledge-I am the man who will now tell you .
' The chief engineer was the only one able to move ; he ran to a television set and struggled frantically with its dials .
But the screen remained empty ; the speaker had not chosen to be seen .
Only his voice filled the airways of the country-of the world , thought the chief engineer-sounding as if he were speaking here , in this room , not to a group , but to one man ; it was not the tone of addressing a meeting , but the tone of addressing a mind .
" You have heard it said that this is an age of moral crisis .
You have said it yourself , half in fear , half in hope that the words had no meaning .
You have cried that man 's sins are destroying the world and you have cursed human nature for its unwillingness to practice the virtues you demanded .
Since virtue , to you , consists of sacrifice , you have demanded more sacrifices at every successive disaster .
In the name of a return to morality , you have sacrificed all those evils which you held as the cause of your plight .
You have sacrificed justice to mercy .
You have sacrificed independence to unity .
You have sacrificed reason to faith .
You have sacrificed wealth to need .
You have sacrificed self-esteem to self-denial .
You have sacrificed happiness to duty .
" You have destroyed all that which you held to be evil and achieved all that which you held to be good .
Why , then , do you shrink in horror from the sight of the world around you ?
That world is not the product of your sins , it is the product and the image of your virtues .
It is your moral ideal brought into reality in its full and final perfection .
You have fought for it , you have dreamed of it , and you have wished it , and I-I am the man who has granted you your wish .
" Your ideal had an implacable enemy , which your code of morality was designed to destroy .
I have withdrawn that enemy .
I have taken it out of your way and out of your reach .
I have removed the source of all those evils you were sacrificing one by one .
I have ended your battle .
I have stopped your motor .
I have deprived your world of man 's mind .
" Men do not live by the mind , you say ?
I have withdrawn those who do .
The mind is impotent , you say ?
I have withdrawn those whose mind is n't .
There are values higher than the mind , you say ?
I have withdrawn those for whom there are n't .
" While you were dragging to your sacrificial altars the men of justice , of independence , of reason , of wealth , of self-esteem-I beat you to it , I reached them first .
I told them the nature of the game you were playing and the nature of that moral code of yours , which they had been too innocently generous to grasp .
I showed them the way to live by another morality-mine .
It is mine that they chose to follow .
" All the men who have vanished , the men you hated , yet dreaded to lose , it is I who have taken them away from you .
Do not attempt to find us .
We do not choose to be found .
Do not cry that it is our duty to serve you .
We do not recognize such duty .
Do not cry that you need us .
We do not consider need a claim .
Do not cry that you own us .
You do n't .
Do not beg us to return .
We are on strike , we , the men of the mind .
" We are on strike against self-immolation .
We are on strike against the creed of unearned rewards and unrewarded duties .
We are on strike against the dogma that the pursuit of one 's happiness is evil .
We are on strike against the doctrine that life is guilt .
" There is a difference between our strike and all those you 've practiced for centuries : our strike consists , not of</tokentext>
<sentencetext> http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/books/04/27/ayn.rand.atlas.shrugged/index.html?eref=rss\_topstories [cnn.com] For twelve years, you have been asking: Who is John Galt?
This is John Galt speaking.
I am the man who loves his life.
I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values.
I am the man who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world, and if you wish to know why you are perishing-you who dread knowledge-I am the man who will now tell you.
' The chief engineer was the only one able to move; he ran to a television set and struggled frantically with its dials.
But the screen remained empty; the speaker had not chosen to be seen.
Only his voice filled the airways of the country-of the world, thought the chief engineer-sounding as if he were speaking here, in this room, not to a group, but to one man; it was not the tone of addressing a meeting, but the tone of addressing a mind.
"You have heard it said that this is an age of moral crisis.
You have said it yourself, half in fear, half in hope that the words had no meaning.
You have cried that man's sins are destroying the world and you have cursed human nature for its unwillingness to practice the virtues you demanded.
Since virtue, to you, consists of sacrifice, you have demanded more sacrifices at every successive disaster.
In the name of a return to morality, you have sacrificed all those evils which you held as the cause of your plight.
You have sacrificed justice to mercy.
You have sacrificed independence to unity.
You have sacrificed reason to faith.
You have sacrificed wealth to need.
You have sacrificed self-esteem to self-denial.
You have sacrificed happiness to duty.
"You have destroyed all that which you held to be evil and achieved all that which you held to be good.
Why, then, do you shrink in horror from the sight of the world around you?
That world is not the product of your sins, it is the product and the image of your virtues.
It is your moral ideal brought into reality in its full and final perfection.
You have fought for it, you have dreamed of it, and you have wished it, and I-I am the man who has granted you your wish.
"Your ideal had an implacable enemy, which your code of morality was designed to destroy.
I have withdrawn that enemy.
I have taken it out of your way and out of your reach.
I have removed the source of all those evils you were sacrificing one by one.
I have ended your battle.
I have stopped your motor.
I have deprived your world of man's mind.
"Men do not live by the mind, you say?
I have withdrawn those who do.
The mind is impotent, you say?
I have withdrawn those whose mind isn't.
There are values higher than the mind, you say?
I have withdrawn those for whom there aren't.
"While you were dragging to your sacrificial altars the men of justice, of independence, of reason, of wealth, of self-esteem-I beat you to it, I reached them first.
I told them the nature of the game you were playing and the nature of that moral code of yours, which they had been too innocently generous to grasp.
I showed them the way to live by another morality-mine.
It is mine that they chose to follow.
"All the men who have vanished, the men you hated, yet dreaded to lose, it is I who have taken them away from you.
Do not attempt to find us.
We do not choose to be found.
Do not cry that it is our duty to serve you.
We do not recognize such duty.
Do not cry that you need us.
We do not consider need a claim.
Do not cry that you own us.
You don't.
Do not beg us to return.
We are on strike, we, the men of the mind.
"We are on strike against self-immolation.
We are on strike against the creed of unearned rewards and unrewarded duties.
We are on strike against the dogma that the pursuit of one's happiness is evil.
We are on strike against the doctrine that life is guilt.
"There is a difference between our strike and all those you've practiced for centuries: our strike consists, not of</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852514</id>
	<title>CLI</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264071960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is where we get when everything is a GUI. As long as I have a decent shell &amp; environment, I think I prefer shell scripting. </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is where we get when everything is a GUI .
As long as I have a decent shell &amp; environment , I think I prefer shell scripting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is where we get when everything is a GUI.
As long as I have a decent shell &amp; environment, I think I prefer shell scripting. </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852604</id>
	<title>lame</title>
	<author>Charliemopps</author>
	<datestamp>1264072200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is the same sort of scripting you can do with many already existing languages. Autohotkey for example. The only new feature would be the ability to copy the screenshot directly into the program as apposed to taking it outside the program and referencing the file directly. I'd say that this scripting language is actually weaker because of it.

As far as using this inside a game... they are already hardened against this sort of thing. For example, next time you're in EVE look at the buttons you use. They are semi-transparent. This is not just for aesthetics. If you take a screenshot of the button, and then change your camera angle the button looks different because what's behind it is different. That doesn't mean you can't script inside EVE, you just have to be a lot more clever than using a script to click on a static image of the gui. This language would be almost completely useless in any GUI that has any transparency. Which I'd think would include Vista, Win7 and even Macs with the right stuff turned on.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is the same sort of scripting you can do with many already existing languages .
Autohotkey for example .
The only new feature would be the ability to copy the screenshot directly into the program as apposed to taking it outside the program and referencing the file directly .
I 'd say that this scripting language is actually weaker because of it .
As far as using this inside a game... they are already hardened against this sort of thing .
For example , next time you 're in EVE look at the buttons you use .
They are semi-transparent .
This is not just for aesthetics .
If you take a screenshot of the button , and then change your camera angle the button looks different because what 's behind it is different .
That does n't mean you ca n't script inside EVE , you just have to be a lot more clever than using a script to click on a static image of the gui .
This language would be almost completely useless in any GUI that has any transparency .
Which I 'd think would include Vista , Win7 and even Macs with the right stuff turned on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is the same sort of scripting you can do with many already existing languages.
Autohotkey for example.
The only new feature would be the ability to copy the screenshot directly into the program as apposed to taking it outside the program and referencing the file directly.
I'd say that this scripting language is actually weaker because of it.
As far as using this inside a game... they are already hardened against this sort of thing.
For example, next time you're in EVE look at the buttons you use.
They are semi-transparent.
This is not just for aesthetics.
If you take a screenshot of the button, and then change your camera angle the button looks different because what's behind it is different.
That doesn't mean you can't script inside EVE, you just have to be a lot more clever than using a script to click on a static image of the gui.
This language would be almost completely useless in any GUI that has any transparency.
Which I'd think would include Vista, Win7 and even Macs with the right stuff turned on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30928390</id>
	<title>Re:FrontPage?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264602000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is only news.  This is not new.  From the overview I just saw (briefly), there is a program called AutoIt (http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/) that has been around for a while now.  In the 1990s I think Norton had something similar.  This just seems like an old idea coming around again with a new twist.  Personally, from what I see in the demo, the images slow it down it.  The images make it a little easier, but do you want everyone programming a computer?  Really?  What will the broken cup holder types do damage wise?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is only news .
This is not new .
From the overview I just saw ( briefly ) , there is a program called AutoIt ( http : //www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/ ) that has been around for a while now .
In the 1990s I think Norton had something similar .
This just seems like an old idea coming around again with a new twist .
Personally , from what I see in the demo , the images slow it down it .
The images make it a little easier , but do you want everyone programming a computer ?
Really ? What will the broken cup holder types do damage wise ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is only news.
This is not new.
From the overview I just saw (briefly), there is a program called AutoIt (http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/) that has been around for a while now.
In the 1990s I think Norton had something similar.
This just seems like an old idea coming around again with a new twist.
Personally, from what I see in the demo, the images slow it down it.
The images make it a little easier, but do you want everyone programming a computer?
Really?  What will the broken cup holder types do damage wise?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853008</id>
	<title>Re:My grandmother knows python</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264073640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't see why not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see why not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see why not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851964</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854010</id>
	<title>Re:Better</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264077420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GUI automation has been around for quite some time.<br>I personally have written programs to automate GUIs both web pages and desktop applications.</p><p>What is new here is the unnecessary extra work of image recognition.<br>I hope it doesn't try to do recognition every time and instead stores the UI element and uses the element directly.</p><p>What happens if your background changes?<br>Does the script break?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GUI automation has been around for quite some time.I personally have written programs to automate GUIs both web pages and desktop applications.What is new here is the unnecessary extra work of image recognition.I hope it does n't try to do recognition every time and instead stores the UI element and uses the element directly.What happens if your background changes ? Does the script break ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GUI automation has been around for quite some time.I personally have written programs to automate GUIs both web pages and desktop applications.What is new here is the unnecessary extra work of image recognition.I hope it doesn't try to do recognition every time and instead stores the UI element and uses the element directly.What happens if your background changes?Does the script break?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851920</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854210</id>
	<title>Re:bad VB flashbacks</title>
	<author>ClosedSource</author>
	<datestamp>1264078380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's OK. For most VB apps there wasn't any "back end".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's OK. For most VB apps there was n't any " back end " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's OK. For most VB apps there wasn't any "back end".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852378</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854360</id>
	<title>It's Not Going Anywhere</title>
	<author>Clugy</author>
	<datestamp>1264079280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'd be curious to see how they handle the back end, especially as some others pointed out it does make calls that seemingly require some hook into the OS. As for its usefulness, I doubt it will really take off beyond being a decent prototype. It relies on image matching so if you use and  change a custom icon set all your scripts would be kinda worthless. Same goes if the programs you are "screenshot scripting" receive a major overhaul in the GUI department. Until it can address those issues, I doubt it will really take off.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd be curious to see how they handle the back end , especially as some others pointed out it does make calls that seemingly require some hook into the OS .
As for its usefulness , I doubt it will really take off beyond being a decent prototype .
It relies on image matching so if you use and change a custom icon set all your scripts would be kinda worthless .
Same goes if the programs you are " screenshot scripting " receive a major overhaul in the GUI department .
Until it can address those issues , I doubt it will really take off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd be curious to see how they handle the back end, especially as some others pointed out it does make calls that seemingly require some hook into the OS.
As for its usefulness, I doubt it will really take off beyond being a decent prototype.
It relies on image matching so if you use and  change a custom icon set all your scripts would be kinda worthless.
Same goes if the programs you are "screenshot scripting" receive a major overhaul in the GUI department.
Until it can address those issues, I doubt it will really take off.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852710</id>
	<title>Re:My grandmother knows python</title>
	<author>Fred\_A</author>
	<datestamp>1264072620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"Computer users with rudimentary skills"..... "with a basic understanding of Python"?</p></div><p>Computer users with a rudimentary skill who do not have a basic understanding of Python can always build a Python programming AI in Lisp (or at least that's what I gathered from the MIT docs I browsed) and thus save themselves the trouble.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Computer users with rudimentary skills " ..... " with a basic understanding of Python " ? Computer users with a rudimentary skill who do not have a basic understanding of Python can always build a Python programming AI in Lisp ( or at least that 's what I gathered from the MIT docs I browsed ) and thus save themselves the trouble .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Computer users with rudimentary skills"..... "with a basic understanding of Python"?Computer users with a rudimentary skill who do not have a basic understanding of Python can always build a Python programming AI in Lisp (or at least that's what I gathered from the MIT docs I browsed) and thus save themselves the trouble.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851964</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855704</id>
	<title>SendKeys</title>
	<author>codepunk</author>
	<datestamp>1264089120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow they just created the old VB SendKeys command. I was actually doing stuff like this 12-14 years ago with SendKeys command in VB. In "practical" use back then<br>it sucked and I am certain that has not changed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow they just created the old VB SendKeys command .
I was actually doing stuff like this 12-14 years ago with SendKeys command in VB .
In " practical " use back thenit sucked and I am certain that has not changed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow they just created the old VB SendKeys command.
I was actually doing stuff like this 12-14 years ago with SendKeys command in VB.
In "practical" use back thenit sucked and I am certain that has not changed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851660</id>
	<title>How easy IS it?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264069380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Can it be done while getting a blow job? That's the the real question.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Can it be done while getting a blow job ?
That 's the the real question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can it be done while getting a blow job?
That's the the real question.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856516</id>
	<title>Re:lame</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264097220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>you can control the transparency in eve windows.</htmltext>
<tokenext>you can control the transparency in eve windows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you can control the transparency in eve windows.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852428</id>
	<title>Sikuli</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264071720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sikuli velly nice.  Near Itari.  Parelmo, velly nice.  Except warret got storen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sikuli velly nice .
Near Itari .
Parelmo , velly nice .
Except warret got storen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sikuli velly nice.
Near Itari.
Parelmo, velly nice.
Except warret got storen.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852030</id>
	<title>The Cow pat model</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264070460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah - lets hear it for a new development model:<p>
For years I have been asking for a softwsare development tool that allows me to write PHP code by throwing cow-pats at the screem with the Wiimote.</p><p>
And my colleagues wat a tool that allows dispatching my bugs with the Wii gun attachment they use in "Quantum of Solace".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah - lets hear it for a new development model : For years I have been asking for a softwsare development tool that allows me to write PHP code by throwing cow-pats at the screem with the Wiimote .
And my colleagues wat a tool that allows dispatching my bugs with the Wii gun attachment they use in " Quantum of Solace " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah - lets hear it for a new development model:
For years I have been asking for a softwsare development tool that allows me to write PHP code by throwing cow-pats at the screem with the Wiimote.
And my colleagues wat a tool that allows dispatching my bugs with the Wii gun attachment they use in "Quantum of Solace".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852190</id>
	<title>Right hands great- chances are more harm than good</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264070940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yea- this might work until the icons change. I don't see this working too well in practice. I don't know about Mac- but on my Ubuntu system the icons got updated last week.  And it happens often enough that these scripts would need updating to be a serious pain and expense. It isn't like an ordinary user could figure this stuff out either. Despite it being so simple your still going to need an IT person to create these scripts. Now you just have dumber IT people. Probably people who COST you more money in practice too because they "can" do it- it just the results of their work takes more maintenance. It reminds me of this<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.bat file written for this video store that backs up a database to a flash drive. If it had only had a statement to check if the flash drive were present and alert the user they wouldn't of wasted $80 calling me to come and find out why the backup program wasn't working. Seriously dumb programmer. In the right hands this kind of thing is good. In the wrong hands it is bad.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yea- this might work until the icons change .
I do n't see this working too well in practice .
I do n't know about Mac- but on my Ubuntu system the icons got updated last week .
And it happens often enough that these scripts would need updating to be a serious pain and expense .
It is n't like an ordinary user could figure this stuff out either .
Despite it being so simple your still going to need an IT person to create these scripts .
Now you just have dumber IT people .
Probably people who COST you more money in practice too because they " can " do it- it just the results of their work takes more maintenance .
It reminds me of this .bat file written for this video store that backs up a database to a flash drive .
If it had only had a statement to check if the flash drive were present and alert the user they would n't of wasted $ 80 calling me to come and find out why the backup program was n't working .
Seriously dumb programmer .
In the right hands this kind of thing is good .
In the wrong hands it is bad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yea- this might work until the icons change.
I don't see this working too well in practice.
I don't know about Mac- but on my Ubuntu system the icons got updated last week.
And it happens often enough that these scripts would need updating to be a serious pain and expense.
It isn't like an ordinary user could figure this stuff out either.
Despite it being so simple your still going to need an IT person to create these scripts.
Now you just have dumber IT people.
Probably people who COST you more money in practice too because they "can" do it- it just the results of their work takes more maintenance.
It reminds me of this .bat file written for this video store that backs up a database to a flash drive.
If it had only had a statement to check if the flash drive were present and alert the user they wouldn't of wasted $80 calling me to come and find out why the backup program wasn't working.
Seriously dumb programmer.
In the right hands this kind of thing is good.
In the wrong hands it is bad.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855778</id>
	<title>Better Solution one line</title>
	<author>codepunk</author>
	<datestamp>1264089720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>man ifconfig</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>man ifconfig</tokentext>
<sentencetext>man ifconfig</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851930</id>
	<title>Click Fraud Boosters Away!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1264070160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like it would be a great program to commit massive clickfraud. Just take a screenshot of a particular google ad-link in your browser and ask it to click it. Install script on hundreds of computers/ run it thousands of times and you have a great way to commit click fraud.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like it would be a great program to commit massive clickfraud .
Just take a screenshot of a particular google ad-link in your browser and ask it to click it .
Install script on hundreds of computers/ run it thousands of times and you have a great way to commit click fraud .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like it would be a great program to commit massive clickfraud.
Just take a screenshot of a particular google ad-link in your browser and ask it to click it.
Install script on hundreds of computers/ run it thousands of times and you have a great way to commit click fraud.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855604</id>
	<title>Re:My grandmother knows python</title>
	<author>Alex Belits</author>
	<datestamp>1264088160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Moar liek BASIC understanding of a python.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Moar liek BASIC understanding of a python .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Moar liek BASIC understanding of a python.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851964</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_32</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852710
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851964
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855796
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851964
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855604
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851964
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854210
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852378
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852420
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_33</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854796
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852232
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852456
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851660
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856968
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855630
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852604
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853390
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852278
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853008
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851964
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853516
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852764
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852256
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851920
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853644
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852604
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30928390
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854196
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852232
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854624
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852604
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855256
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851920
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856516
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852604
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852754
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30862752
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852422
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856346
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852232
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30862330
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856072
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852232
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856700
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853034
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851842
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30869724
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852032
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851660
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30866132
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852232
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30860380
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855446
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30859892
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856196
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_35</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854010
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851920
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_21_215212_28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30858452
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851964
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852390
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852164
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852520
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851710
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851920
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855256
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854010
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852256
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852272
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856968
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853516
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852764
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30862330
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856700
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30869724
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30862752
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852754
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855446
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30928390
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855062
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852232
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854196
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856346
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854796
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30866132
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856072
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854416
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851804
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852422
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856196
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30859892
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852420
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30860380
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853390
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852278
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852030
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851660
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852456
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852032
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852378
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854210
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853122
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851616
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853314
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852604
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855630
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854624
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30856516
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853644
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855730
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852514
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852574
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851930
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851964
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30858452
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855604
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30852710
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853008
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30855796
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30854674
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30851842
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853034
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853118
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation10_01_21_215212.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_21_215212.30853784
</commentlist>
</conversation>
