<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_17_2127233</id>
	<title>Wii Balance Board Gives $18,000 Medical Device a Run For Its Money</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1263721380000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Gizmodo highlights a very cool <a href="http://gizmodo.com/5450150/in-early-tests-99-wii-balance-board-outperforms-17885-medical-rig">repurposing effort for the Wii's Balance Board accessory</a>.  Rather than the specialized force platforms used to quantify patients' ability to balance after a trauma like stroke, doctors at the University of Melbourne thought that a Balance Board might serve as well. Says the article: "When doctors disassembled the board, they found the accelerometers and strain gauges to be of 'excellent' quality. 'I was shocked given the price: it was an extremely impressive strain gauge set-up.'" Games controllers you'd expect to be durable and at least fairly accurate; what's surprising is just how much comparable, purpose-built devices cost. In this case, the Balance Board (just under $100) was compared favorably with a test platform that costs just a shade less than $18,000.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gizmodo highlights a very cool repurposing effort for the Wii 's Balance Board accessory .
Rather than the specialized force platforms used to quantify patients ' ability to balance after a trauma like stroke , doctors at the University of Melbourne thought that a Balance Board might serve as well .
Says the article : " When doctors disassembled the board , they found the accelerometers and strain gauges to be of 'excellent ' quality .
'I was shocked given the price : it was an extremely impressive strain gauge set-up .
' " Games controllers you 'd expect to be durable and at least fairly accurate ; what 's surprising is just how much comparable , purpose-built devices cost .
In this case , the Balance Board ( just under $ 100 ) was compared favorably with a test platform that costs just a shade less than $ 18,000 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gizmodo highlights a very cool repurposing effort for the Wii's Balance Board accessory.
Rather than the specialized force platforms used to quantify patients' ability to balance after a trauma like stroke, doctors at the University of Melbourne thought that a Balance Board might serve as well.
Says the article: "When doctors disassembled the board, they found the accelerometers and strain gauges to be of 'excellent' quality.
'I was shocked given the price: it was an extremely impressive strain gauge set-up.
'" Games controllers you'd expect to be durable and at least fairly accurate; what's surprising is just how much comparable, purpose-built devices cost.
In this case, the Balance Board (just under $100) was compared favorably with a test platform that costs just a shade less than $18,000.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30803742</id>
	<title>in other news...</title>
	<author>mestar</author>
	<datestamp>1263742380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...medical hardware manufactures charge $18,000 for a piece of hardware worth about $100.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...medical hardware manufactures charge $ 18,000 for a piece of hardware worth about $ 100 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...medical hardware manufactures charge $18,000 for a piece of hardware worth about $100.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30808134</id>
	<title>laissez-faire FTW</title>
	<author>supernatendo</author>
	<datestamp>1263831240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hmmm, let&rsquo;s see here, one device, marketed as a medical device, is made in a heavily government controlled environment where there is much need of tort reform. The other is a repurposed game device with similar components of equal quality where tort reform is not an issue</p><p>Sure, a lot has to do with the fact that there is much more demand for the Wii balance board than the Medical Scale, but because of all the bureaucracy and litigation involved in the medical field the price of the medical scale includes not only the equipment&rsquo;s accuracy and the quality of its components or the demand for such a device, but also the insurance the manufacturer has to carry in case something goes wrong. Hospitals and doctors are paying the manufacturer high prices so that the company who makes the device can cover for the likely case that somebody who may have been misdiagnosed and had used the device may try to make a case against the company based on the theory that the improper diagnosis could have been due to a &ldquo;technical malfunction&rdquo;. The money that has to be paid when the company gets sued all the time is huge.  This cost is passed on to the doctors and hospitals and the cost that the doctors and hospitals incur for the device is passed on to the patient. This contributes to the higher cost of health care which has caused a heavy reliance on health insurance as opposed to people being able to save money for healthcare as they need it and for making health insurance much more expensive.</p><p>What is amazing to me is that people who advocate more market tampering and control would have failed to notice that the free market Gaming sector of the economy would be able to generate enough demand to bring down the price for what would otherwise be an obscure piece of medical equipment.</p><p>In a controlled market the idea of investing money and resources in gaming devices would have been deemed wasteful and there would never have been this possibility for an incredible price drop.</p><p>laissez-faire FTW.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmmm , let    s see here , one device , marketed as a medical device , is made in a heavily government controlled environment where there is much need of tort reform .
The other is a repurposed game device with similar components of equal quality where tort reform is not an issueSure , a lot has to do with the fact that there is much more demand for the Wii balance board than the Medical Scale , but because of all the bureaucracy and litigation involved in the medical field the price of the medical scale includes not only the equipment    s accuracy and the quality of its components or the demand for such a device , but also the insurance the manufacturer has to carry in case something goes wrong .
Hospitals and doctors are paying the manufacturer high prices so that the company who makes the device can cover for the likely case that somebody who may have been misdiagnosed and had used the device may try to make a case against the company based on the theory that the improper diagnosis could have been due to a    technical malfunction    .
The money that has to be paid when the company gets sued all the time is huge .
This cost is passed on to the doctors and hospitals and the cost that the doctors and hospitals incur for the device is passed on to the patient .
This contributes to the higher cost of health care which has caused a heavy reliance on health insurance as opposed to people being able to save money for healthcare as they need it and for making health insurance much more expensive.What is amazing to me is that people who advocate more market tampering and control would have failed to notice that the free market Gaming sector of the economy would be able to generate enough demand to bring down the price for what would otherwise be an obscure piece of medical equipment.In a controlled market the idea of investing money and resources in gaming devices would have been deemed wasteful and there would never have been this possibility for an incredible price drop.laissez-faire FTW .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmmm, let’s see here, one device, marketed as a medical device, is made in a heavily government controlled environment where there is much need of tort reform.
The other is a repurposed game device with similar components of equal quality where tort reform is not an issueSure, a lot has to do with the fact that there is much more demand for the Wii balance board than the Medical Scale, but because of all the bureaucracy and litigation involved in the medical field the price of the medical scale includes not only the equipment’s accuracy and the quality of its components or the demand for such a device, but also the insurance the manufacturer has to carry in case something goes wrong.
Hospitals and doctors are paying the manufacturer high prices so that the company who makes the device can cover for the likely case that somebody who may have been misdiagnosed and had used the device may try to make a case against the company based on the theory that the improper diagnosis could have been due to a “technical malfunction”.
The money that has to be paid when the company gets sued all the time is huge.
This cost is passed on to the doctors and hospitals and the cost that the doctors and hospitals incur for the device is passed on to the patient.
This contributes to the higher cost of health care which has caused a heavy reliance on health insurance as opposed to people being able to save money for healthcare as they need it and for making health insurance much more expensive.What is amazing to me is that people who advocate more market tampering and control would have failed to notice that the free market Gaming sector of the economy would be able to generate enough demand to bring down the price for what would otherwise be an obscure piece of medical equipment.In a controlled market the idea of investing money and resources in gaming devices would have been deemed wasteful and there would never have been this possibility for an incredible price drop.laissez-faire FTW.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30805040</id>
	<title>Re:sounds familiar</title>
	<author>spokedoke</author>
	<datestamp>1263755640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This parent should not be a troll, I think that defense equipment costs and medical equipment costs have a lot in common. For instance, my company is a defense contractor that makes a 'special' version of a commodity item. Meaning that we take a $4 dollar part and put in $1000 worth of non-standard testing and QC (advanced reliability, radiation, zero-failure, blah, blah, blah), then sell it to the government for $2000. It takes millions of dollars in research for a commodity part to become something that has zero-failures in a lot (by space qualified mil-spec standards), somehow that doesn't change the fact that a $4 part looks the same as a $2000 part.</p><p>Regarding the infamous hammer, <a href="http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+case+for+the+$435+hammer-a04619906" title="thefreelibrary.com" rel="nofollow">this link</a> [thefreelibrary.com] (thefreelibrary.com) suggests that the cited cost of the hammer was the line item (proposed) cost, not the purchase order cost. Up front only the total amount of our contract is scrutinized, after an amount is agreed upon we fill in the line items in pseudo-random fashion. A 'best guess' at the overhead and supply costs is done knowing that on the back-end of the contract the actual cost of items will be scrutinized, both by our contracting agency and the DCAA. So there is some incentive to pad your guess, not that this particular guess was a good one. It seems that someone who didn't care was asked to fill out the budget.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This parent should not be a troll , I think that defense equipment costs and medical equipment costs have a lot in common .
For instance , my company is a defense contractor that makes a 'special ' version of a commodity item .
Meaning that we take a $ 4 dollar part and put in $ 1000 worth of non-standard testing and QC ( advanced reliability , radiation , zero-failure , blah , blah , blah ) , then sell it to the government for $ 2000 .
It takes millions of dollars in research for a commodity part to become something that has zero-failures in a lot ( by space qualified mil-spec standards ) , somehow that does n't change the fact that a $ 4 part looks the same as a $ 2000 part.Regarding the infamous hammer , this link [ thefreelibrary.com ] ( thefreelibrary.com ) suggests that the cited cost of the hammer was the line item ( proposed ) cost , not the purchase order cost .
Up front only the total amount of our contract is scrutinized , after an amount is agreed upon we fill in the line items in pseudo-random fashion .
A 'best guess ' at the overhead and supply costs is done knowing that on the back-end of the contract the actual cost of items will be scrutinized , both by our contracting agency and the DCAA .
So there is some incentive to pad your guess , not that this particular guess was a good one .
It seems that someone who did n't care was asked to fill out the budget .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This parent should not be a troll, I think that defense equipment costs and medical equipment costs have a lot in common.
For instance, my company is a defense contractor that makes a 'special' version of a commodity item.
Meaning that we take a $4 dollar part and put in $1000 worth of non-standard testing and QC (advanced reliability, radiation, zero-failure, blah, blah, blah), then sell it to the government for $2000.
It takes millions of dollars in research for a commodity part to become something that has zero-failures in a lot (by space qualified mil-spec standards), somehow that doesn't change the fact that a $4 part looks the same as a $2000 part.Regarding the infamous hammer, this link [thefreelibrary.com] (thefreelibrary.com) suggests that the cited cost of the hammer was the line item (proposed) cost, not the purchase order cost.
Up front only the total amount of our contract is scrutinized, after an amount is agreed upon we fill in the line items in pseudo-random fashion.
A 'best guess' at the overhead and supply costs is done knowing that on the back-end of the contract the actual cost of items will be scrutinized, both by our contracting agency and the DCAA.
So there is some incentive to pad your guess, not that this particular guess was a good one.
It seems that someone who didn't care was asked to fill out the budget.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802948</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801844</id>
	<title>Eyetoy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263727080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The eyetoy from the PS3 is also de best camera in the market and it costs less than 40&euro;.  It has 75 degree wide lenses and can reach 125 fps. This is much more than what most cameras do. Even the 200&euro; ones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The eyetoy from the PS3 is also de best camera in the market and it costs less than 40    .
It has 75 degree wide lenses and can reach 125 fps .
This is much more than what most cameras do .
Even the 200    ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The eyetoy from the PS3 is also de best camera in the market and it costs less than 40€.
It has 75 degree wide lenses and can reach 125 fps.
This is much more than what most cameras do.
Even the 200€ ones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801586</id>
	<title>False comparisons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263725580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These "test platforms" are not just a slab of plastic a few inches in size: they are usually about two feet or more square, can handle up to 400 pounds of static force (and often a ton or more impact for jumping), and more importantly, come with a full diagnostic software package that can track patient history and results. Show me ANY medical office outfit that can develop this level of software for $18,000 or less, let alone support it, and hack up the proper interface to the WII board.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These " test platforms " are not just a slab of plastic a few inches in size : they are usually about two feet or more square , can handle up to 400 pounds of static force ( and often a ton or more impact for jumping ) , and more importantly , come with a full diagnostic software package that can track patient history and results .
Show me ANY medical office outfit that can develop this level of software for $ 18,000 or less , let alone support it , and hack up the proper interface to the WII board .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These "test platforms" are not just a slab of plastic a few inches in size: they are usually about two feet or more square, can handle up to 400 pounds of static force (and often a ton or more impact for jumping), and more importantly, come with a full diagnostic software package that can track patient history and results.
Show me ANY medical office outfit that can develop this level of software for $18,000 or less, let alone support it, and hack up the proper interface to the WII board.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802284</id>
	<title>Economies of Scale</title>
	<author>burritozine</author>
	<datestamp>1263730320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Everyone has rightly pointed out that the cost of this sort of device is inflated by regulatory headaches and liability concerns.  Let's not forget simple economies of scale here.  A video game controller will likely sell millions if not tens of millions of units before it's eventually retired from the market.  A medical balance board, on the other hand, is at best a niche device whose sales will likely be at least an order of magnitude (or two!) smaller.  The costs of designing, testing and building this device are borne by a comparatively tiny number of sales, hence the higher price.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone has rightly pointed out that the cost of this sort of device is inflated by regulatory headaches and liability concerns .
Let 's not forget simple economies of scale here .
A video game controller will likely sell millions if not tens of millions of units before it 's eventually retired from the market .
A medical balance board , on the other hand , is at best a niche device whose sales will likely be at least an order of magnitude ( or two !
) smaller .
The costs of designing , testing and building this device are borne by a comparatively tiny number of sales , hence the higher price .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone has rightly pointed out that the cost of this sort of device is inflated by regulatory headaches and liability concerns.
Let's not forget simple economies of scale here.
A video game controller will likely sell millions if not tens of millions of units before it's eventually retired from the market.
A medical balance board, on the other hand, is at best a niche device whose sales will likely be at least an order of magnitude (or two!
) smaller.
The costs of designing, testing and building this device are borne by a comparatively tiny number of sales, hence the higher price.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801562</id>
	<title>What have we here?</title>
	<author>tonycheese</author>
	<datestamp>1263725400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wii parts replacing 18,000 dollar medical equipment... PS3s replacing 10,000 dollar supercomputers... clearly the video game industry knows something we don't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wii parts replacing 18,000 dollar medical equipment... PS3s replacing 10,000 dollar supercomputers... clearly the video game industry knows something we do n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wii parts replacing 18,000 dollar medical equipment... PS3s replacing 10,000 dollar supercomputers... clearly the video game industry knows something we don't.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802934</id>
	<title>Has Little to Do with Lawsuits</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263735300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The reason medical devices are so expensive has little to do with lawsuits when compared with the number one reason: the market for health care is distorted because the decision maker (doctor) is not the person paying for the decision (the patient or insurance).  Medical device companies just market directly to doctors.  Medical conferences are like industry paid vacations for doctors.  Even if you tell your doctor that your Wii balance board does the same thing as the $18,000 device, he's still not going to prescribe it because he has no incentive to.  He doesn't bear the cost of paying for it.  You do or most likely your insurance do.  You see the exact same thing in the textbook industry.  The professors make the decision and the students pay for it.  When the two entities are not the same, you have a market that's distorted and normal mechanisms of capitalism don't lead to lower costs and greater efficiency like they do in other areas.  Of course FDA approval definitely plays into this by making it easier for doctors to have support for their decisions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason medical devices are so expensive has little to do with lawsuits when compared with the number one reason : the market for health care is distorted because the decision maker ( doctor ) is not the person paying for the decision ( the patient or insurance ) .
Medical device companies just market directly to doctors .
Medical conferences are like industry paid vacations for doctors .
Even if you tell your doctor that your Wii balance board does the same thing as the $ 18,000 device , he 's still not going to prescribe it because he has no incentive to .
He does n't bear the cost of paying for it .
You do or most likely your insurance do .
You see the exact same thing in the textbook industry .
The professors make the decision and the students pay for it .
When the two entities are not the same , you have a market that 's distorted and normal mechanisms of capitalism do n't lead to lower costs and greater efficiency like they do in other areas .
Of course FDA approval definitely plays into this by making it easier for doctors to have support for their decisions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason medical devices are so expensive has little to do with lawsuits when compared with the number one reason: the market for health care is distorted because the decision maker (doctor) is not the person paying for the decision (the patient or insurance).
Medical device companies just market directly to doctors.
Medical conferences are like industry paid vacations for doctors.
Even if you tell your doctor that your Wii balance board does the same thing as the $18,000 device, he's still not going to prescribe it because he has no incentive to.
He doesn't bear the cost of paying for it.
You do or most likely your insurance do.
You see the exact same thing in the textbook industry.
The professors make the decision and the students pay for it.
When the two entities are not the same, you have a market that's distorted and normal mechanisms of capitalism don't lead to lower costs and greater efficiency like they do in other areas.
Of course FDA approval definitely plays into this by making it easier for doctors to have support for their decisions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802084</id>
	<title>Re:Price-gouging</title>
	<author>ColdWetDog</author>
	<datestamp>1263728940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Medical/Hospital grade equipment is tested, and logged, and tested, and logged, and probably tested again just for logging purposes.</p></div></blockquote><p>
True enough, it doesn't cause $18,000 to log things.  Not every device used in patient care needs to be tested to the extent that 'medical devices' do.  Mostly, it's simple patient safety stuff (no current leakage, etc.)</p><blockquote><div><p>Look at a mobile computer unit in an ER and chances are the chassis alone cost at least $5K, just due to certifications.</p></div></blockquote><p>
BS.  The one I just used is a stock Dell POS on a home made COW cart (Computer on Wheels).  The laptop has a little sticker stating it passed biomed's safety test.  That's it.  But it's not a medical device.  Just a laptop.</p><blockquote><div><p>Ever been in a hospital bed?<br> <br>
And then used the remote to raise the head? lower the feet? call the nurse?<br> <br>
I've seen records going back to the mid-seventies on some units, where they measure down to the milliamp along various points on the chassis; all to ensure patient safety.</p></div></blockquote><p>

If you actually disassemble those things you find a bunch of switches and a PCB board.  Made to reasonable specs (essentially has to be waterproof and have a decent level of physical construction) but nothing as well made, as say, avionics.  Remember, these devices don't GO INSIDE people, nor are they intended to cure or diagnose.  Therefore, they don't have to be particularly sophisticated or well made.<br> <br>
Stuff that goes inside you (implantable things), diagnostic gear, radiation stuff - all that has to undergo much more rigorous testing which does cost more.  Not nearly as much as the vendors charge - there is quite a bit of inflation surrounding medical grade gear, but it's pretty clearly a rip off in order to make as much money as fast as possible.  It's a business and pretty much bullshit, but there you have it.  The American Way.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Medical/Hospital grade equipment is tested , and logged , and tested , and logged , and probably tested again just for logging purposes .
True enough , it does n't cause $ 18,000 to log things .
Not every device used in patient care needs to be tested to the extent that 'medical devices ' do .
Mostly , it 's simple patient safety stuff ( no current leakage , etc .
) Look at a mobile computer unit in an ER and chances are the chassis alone cost at least $ 5K , just due to certifications .
BS. The one I just used is a stock Dell POS on a home made COW cart ( Computer on Wheels ) .
The laptop has a little sticker stating it passed biomed 's safety test .
That 's it .
But it 's not a medical device .
Just a laptop.Ever been in a hospital bed ?
And then used the remote to raise the head ?
lower the feet ?
call the nurse ?
I 've seen records going back to the mid-seventies on some units , where they measure down to the milliamp along various points on the chassis ; all to ensure patient safety .
If you actually disassemble those things you find a bunch of switches and a PCB board .
Made to reasonable specs ( essentially has to be waterproof and have a decent level of physical construction ) but nothing as well made , as say , avionics .
Remember , these devices do n't GO INSIDE people , nor are they intended to cure or diagnose .
Therefore , they do n't have to be particularly sophisticated or well made .
Stuff that goes inside you ( implantable things ) , diagnostic gear , radiation stuff - all that has to undergo much more rigorous testing which does cost more .
Not nearly as much as the vendors charge - there is quite a bit of inflation surrounding medical grade gear , but it 's pretty clearly a rip off in order to make as much money as fast as possible .
It 's a business and pretty much bullshit , but there you have it .
The American Way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Medical/Hospital grade equipment is tested, and logged, and tested, and logged, and probably tested again just for logging purposes.
True enough, it doesn't cause $18,000 to log things.
Not every device used in patient care needs to be tested to the extent that 'medical devices' do.
Mostly, it's simple patient safety stuff (no current leakage, etc.
)Look at a mobile computer unit in an ER and chances are the chassis alone cost at least $5K, just due to certifications.
BS.  The one I just used is a stock Dell POS on a home made COW cart (Computer on Wheels).
The laptop has a little sticker stating it passed biomed's safety test.
That's it.
But it's not a medical device.
Just a laptop.Ever been in a hospital bed?
And then used the remote to raise the head?
lower the feet?
call the nurse?
I've seen records going back to the mid-seventies on some units, where they measure down to the milliamp along various points on the chassis; all to ensure patient safety.
If you actually disassemble those things you find a bunch of switches and a PCB board.
Made to reasonable specs (essentially has to be waterproof and have a decent level of physical construction) but nothing as well made, as say, avionics.
Remember, these devices don't GO INSIDE people, nor are they intended to cure or diagnose.
Therefore, they don't have to be particularly sophisticated or well made.
Stuff that goes inside you (implantable things), diagnostic gear, radiation stuff - all that has to undergo much more rigorous testing which does cost more.
Not nearly as much as the vendors charge - there is quite a bit of inflation surrounding medical grade gear, but it's pretty clearly a rip off in order to make as much money as fast as possible.
It's a business and pretty much bullshit, but there you have it.
The American Way.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801762</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802770</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263733680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What the heck do (medical) doctors know about quality of accelerometers and strain gauges? Thats why health care cost are so damn high because doctors and hospitals pay $18000 for things that should cost $100. (Remind you of the military?) Of course there is economy in scale but not 18000\%.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What the heck do ( medical ) doctors know about quality of accelerometers and strain gauges ?
Thats why health care cost are so damn high because doctors and hospitals pay $ 18000 for things that should cost $ 100 .
( Remind you of the military ?
) Of course there is economy in scale but not 18000 \ % .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What the heck do (medical) doctors know about quality of accelerometers and strain gauges?
Thats why health care cost are so damn high because doctors and hospitals pay $18000 for things that should cost $100.
(Remind you of the military?
) Of course there is economy in scale but not 18000\%.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30804210</id>
	<title>Re:sounds familiar</title>
	<author>IHC Navistar</author>
	<datestamp>1263746880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Where can I find articles on that? I want to read more about it, but can't find anything on it!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Where can I find articles on that ?
I want to read more about it , but ca n't find anything on it ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where can I find articles on that?
I want to read more about it, but can't find anything on it!!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802948</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802060</id>
	<title>duh...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263728700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can build you  100 medical test platforms at 18000 a piece or 18000 wii balance boards at a 100 a piece...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can build you 100 medical test platforms at 18000 a piece or 18000 wii balance boards at a 100 a piece.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can build you  100 medical test platforms at 18000 a piece or 18000 wii balance boards at a 100 a piece...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802760</id>
	<title>Re:A plan to cheapen health care...</title>
	<author>sugarmatic</author>
	<datestamp>1263733620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know you were intending to be funny, but who needs fMRI? Regular MRI is NOT expensive to achieve. GE strategically declines to manufacture low cost MRI equipment because it has established a north american market based on a very high priced, very lucrative business model. The installation of less expensive equipment that provides 80\% to 90\% of the capabilities of the most cutting edge products would inevitably diffuse into the north american market model. This is their own rationale, not mine.</p><p>The real hurdle in the MRI game is the data acquisition and processing, not the hardware. It's very specialized. Experts go from one MRI giant to the other and back again over their careers. It would be a bubble that would utterly collapse should someone with enough chutzpah arrive on the scene...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know you were intending to be funny , but who needs fMRI ?
Regular MRI is NOT expensive to achieve .
GE strategically declines to manufacture low cost MRI equipment because it has established a north american market based on a very high priced , very lucrative business model .
The installation of less expensive equipment that provides 80 \ % to 90 \ % of the capabilities of the most cutting edge products would inevitably diffuse into the north american market model .
This is their own rationale , not mine.The real hurdle in the MRI game is the data acquisition and processing , not the hardware .
It 's very specialized .
Experts go from one MRI giant to the other and back again over their careers .
It would be a bubble that would utterly collapse should someone with enough chutzpah arrive on the scene.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know you were intending to be funny, but who needs fMRI?
Regular MRI is NOT expensive to achieve.
GE strategically declines to manufacture low cost MRI equipment because it has established a north american market based on a very high priced, very lucrative business model.
The installation of less expensive equipment that provides 80\% to 90\% of the capabilities of the most cutting edge products would inevitably diffuse into the north american market model.
This is their own rationale, not mine.The real hurdle in the MRI game is the data acquisition and processing, not the hardware.
It's very specialized.
Experts go from one MRI giant to the other and back again over their careers.
It would be a bubble that would utterly collapse should someone with enough chutzpah arrive on the scene...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802168</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802960</id>
	<title>Crooks</title>
	<author>FShort</author>
	<datestamp>1263735600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>More evidence health care costs are through the roof for no good reason. $18K for a board that is no better than one I'd get with my kids gaming system?? Next time my doc wants to send me for physical therapy, I'm going to say "No thanks, I have Tony Hawk's Downhill Jam at home. Thats just as good".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>More evidence health care costs are through the roof for no good reason .
$ 18K for a board that is no better than one I 'd get with my kids gaming system ? ?
Next time my doc wants to send me for physical therapy , I 'm going to say " No thanks , I have Tony Hawk 's Downhill Jam at home .
Thats just as good " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More evidence health care costs are through the roof for no good reason.
$18K for a board that is no better than one I'd get with my kids gaming system??
Next time my doc wants to send me for physical therapy, I'm going to say "No thanks, I have Tony Hawk's Downhill Jam at home.
Thats just as good".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30803940</id>
	<title>Re:False comparisons</title>
	<author>oji-sama</author>
	<datestamp>1263744240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I believe it has to be $18,000 or less only in the case that they make and use (+sell?) only a single unit...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe it has to be $ 18,000 or less only in the case that they make and use ( + sell ?
) only a single unit.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe it has to be $18,000 or less only in the case that they make and use (+sell?
) only a single unit...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801586</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801678</id>
	<title>This is not a shock...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263726120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had been prescribed a medical device to assist in night time breathing... after asking the clinic person to show me an itemized list of parts and costs, I was shocked at the bill - over $2,200 (USD). She was annoyed that I wanted this list printed out because my insurance was "going to pay for it anyway..."</p><p>A few months later, my insurance no longer wishes to pay the rental costs - so I have to return it or pay $250/month. Found online for $700 new and delivered with three years of support.</p><p>Only when you put medical care in a truly competitive market is when you'll actually see competitive prices.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had been prescribed a medical device to assist in night time breathing... after asking the clinic person to show me an itemized list of parts and costs , I was shocked at the bill - over $ 2,200 ( USD ) .
She was annoyed that I wanted this list printed out because my insurance was " going to pay for it anyway... " A few months later , my insurance no longer wishes to pay the rental costs - so I have to return it or pay $ 250/month .
Found online for $ 700 new and delivered with three years of support.Only when you put medical care in a truly competitive market is when you 'll actually see competitive prices .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had been prescribed a medical device to assist in night time breathing... after asking the clinic person to show me an itemized list of parts and costs, I was shocked at the bill - over $2,200 (USD).
She was annoyed that I wanted this list printed out because my insurance was "going to pay for it anyway..."A few months later, my insurance no longer wishes to pay the rental costs - so I have to return it or pay $250/month.
Found online for $700 new and delivered with three years of support.Only when you put medical care in a truly competitive market is when you'll actually see competitive prices.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801762</id>
	<title>Re:Price-gouging</title>
	<author>Theodore</author>
	<datestamp>1263726540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>STOP!</p><p>Medical/Hospital grade equipment is tested, and logged, and tested, and logged, and probably tested again just for logging purposes.</p><p>Look at a mobile computer unit in an ER and chances are the chassis alone cost at least $5K, just due to certifications.</p><p>Ever been in a hospital bed?<br>And then used the remote to raise the head? lower the feet? call the nurse?<br>I've seen records going back to the mid-seventies on some units, where they measure down to the milliamp along various points on the chassis; all to ensure patient safety.<br>It is not bullshit, it's just that the medical community has certain standards that we MUST adhere to, and console makers don't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>STOP ! Medical/Hospital grade equipment is tested , and logged , and tested , and logged , and probably tested again just for logging purposes.Look at a mobile computer unit in an ER and chances are the chassis alone cost at least $ 5K , just due to certifications.Ever been in a hospital bed ? And then used the remote to raise the head ?
lower the feet ?
call the nurse ? I 've seen records going back to the mid-seventies on some units , where they measure down to the milliamp along various points on the chassis ; all to ensure patient safety.It is not bullshit , it 's just that the medical community has certain standards that we MUST adhere to , and console makers do n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>STOP!Medical/Hospital grade equipment is tested, and logged, and tested, and logged, and probably tested again just for logging purposes.Look at a mobile computer unit in an ER and chances are the chassis alone cost at least $5K, just due to certifications.Ever been in a hospital bed?And then used the remote to raise the head?
lower the feet?
call the nurse?I've seen records going back to the mid-seventies on some units, where they measure down to the milliamp along various points on the chassis; all to ensure patient safety.It is not bullshit, it's just that the medical community has certain standards that we MUST adhere to, and console makers don't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801668</id>
	<title>Re:No wonder</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263726060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Keep in mind that medical devices must pass through a stringent approval process. The time and effort needed to be approved have to be factored into the price.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Keep in mind that medical devices must pass through a stringent approval process .
The time and effort needed to be approved have to be factored into the price .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Keep in mind that medical devices must pass through a stringent approval process.
The time and effort needed to be approved have to be factored into the price.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30803842</id>
	<title>"what the market will bear"</title>
	<author>nsayer</author>
	<datestamp>1263743400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Want to make a mint selling ordinary hardware?</p><p>All you need to do is either</p><p>A. Get it FDA certified for use in medicine.</p><p>Or</p><p>B. Get it FAA approved for use in aviation.</p><p>You can pretty much guarantee a 100x price premium in the former case or perhaps 10-20x in the latter case.</p><p>Of course, requiring government certification for things upon which the general public relies for life safety is not necessarily a bad thing, but the price premium that comes from the certification requirement probably is proportional to the square of the cost of doing whatever is necessary to obtain said certification.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Want to make a mint selling ordinary hardware ? All you need to do is eitherA .
Get it FDA certified for use in medicine.OrB .
Get it FAA approved for use in aviation.You can pretty much guarantee a 100x price premium in the former case or perhaps 10-20x in the latter case.Of course , requiring government certification for things upon which the general public relies for life safety is not necessarily a bad thing , but the price premium that comes from the certification requirement probably is proportional to the square of the cost of doing whatever is necessary to obtain said certification .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Want to make a mint selling ordinary hardware?All you need to do is eitherA.
Get it FDA certified for use in medicine.OrB.
Get it FAA approved for use in aviation.You can pretty much guarantee a 100x price premium in the former case or perhaps 10-20x in the latter case.Of course, requiring government certification for things upon which the general public relies for life safety is not necessarily a bad thing, but the price premium that comes from the certification requirement probably is proportional to the square of the cost of doing whatever is necessary to obtain said certification.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801598</id>
	<title>Price-gouging</title>
	<author>GreatBunzinni</author>
	<datestamp>1263725700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is it due to the Wii's balance board being terribly cheap or is it due to the the price of the "medical-grade" device being extremely over-inflated?  Some of the prices practised by medical equipment and even drug distributors are insane and they always hide behind the mysterious "it's fantastic, medical-grade stuff" and that quite possibly is plain bullshit to increase their profit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it due to the Wii 's balance board being terribly cheap or is it due to the the price of the " medical-grade " device being extremely over-inflated ?
Some of the prices practised by medical equipment and even drug distributors are insane and they always hide behind the mysterious " it 's fantastic , medical-grade stuff " and that quite possibly is plain bullshit to increase their profit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it due to the Wii's balance board being terribly cheap or is it due to the the price of the "medical-grade" device being extremely over-inflated?
Some of the prices practised by medical equipment and even drug distributors are insane and they always hide behind the mysterious "it's fantastic, medical-grade stuff" and that quite possibly is plain bullshit to increase their profit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30807366</id>
	<title>Hahaha</title>
	<author>hesaigo999ca</author>
	<datestamp>1263826680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They are just now starting to realize how overpriced everything is being sold to the medical profession, on purpose....when they come out with a wii, and that same device they can use is sold at 1/1000 the price, it makes you wonder, no?</p><p>There will always be mafia types everywhere, trying to make as much money go into their own pockets, instead of letting the hospitals<br>be able to have more for less. Then when budget time comes, they get the government telling them they cant be given more....<br>and like a little kid that did not save up properly in such situations, cries that its not fair.</p><p>I hope this will shed more light on other like minded situations in the hospitals...and maybe get them to review properly what they are buying....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They are just now starting to realize how overpriced everything is being sold to the medical profession , on purpose....when they come out with a wii , and that same device they can use is sold at 1/1000 the price , it makes you wonder , no ? There will always be mafia types everywhere , trying to make as much money go into their own pockets , instead of letting the hospitalsbe able to have more for less .
Then when budget time comes , they get the government telling them they cant be given more....and like a little kid that did not save up properly in such situations , cries that its not fair.I hope this will shed more light on other like minded situations in the hospitals...and maybe get them to review properly what they are buying... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are just now starting to realize how overpriced everything is being sold to the medical profession, on purpose....when they come out with a wii, and that same device they can use is sold at 1/1000 the price, it makes you wonder, no?There will always be mafia types everywhere, trying to make as much money go into their own pockets, instead of letting the hospitalsbe able to have more for less.
Then when budget time comes, they get the government telling them they cant be given more....and like a little kid that did not save up properly in such situations, cries that its not fair.I hope this will shed more light on other like minded situations in the hospitals...and maybe get them to review properly what they are buying....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801846</id>
	<title>Re:What have we here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263727080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This just in: economies of scale not a myth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This just in : economies of scale not a myth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This just in: economies of scale not a myth.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30809348</id>
	<title>Supply and demand aside...</title>
	<author>HikingStick</author>
	<datestamp>1263837360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Supply and demand aside, when it comes to medical devices (or any special purpose device or package, for that matter), you often pay a premium for intangible features--specific certifications or backings, regulatory approval, availability through an authorized source, etc.<br> <br>A friend of a friend is in the business of selling supply packages for a specific law enforcement function via government contract.  He's repackaging and selling items anyone could get at retail for a fraction of the cost.  In fact, it was my friend who suggested to his associate that the supplies included in the packages not be the ones embossed the with house-brand label of the supplier from which he was getting them, since it wouldn't take too long for the end-user to realize that they could purchase the same items on their own.<br> <br>Or, look at medical fast drying adhesives (e.g. "super glue").  Boxers were using glues they bought at hardware stores for years before the medical community considered a medical use.  Now doctors and clinics can order supplies of "medical grade" superglue that cost many times more than their non-medical versions.  According to my physician, there really was no difference between the two products.  The medical one was simply something billable at a higher price, and it carried the implied benefit of being somehow more sterile than the other product.  I don't know if there is any real difference in how the lots are produced, but our doctor recommended "super glue" for quick at-home fix ups of cuts and gouges that might otherwise might require a stitch (or staple) or two.<br> <br> <b>Just give it some time and you'll likely see lawyers and lobbyists from medical device manufacturers fighting to stop the practice of using "non-approved" devices for patient diagnosis, therapy, or prevention.</b></htmltext>
<tokenext>Supply and demand aside , when it comes to medical devices ( or any special purpose device or package , for that matter ) , you often pay a premium for intangible features--specific certifications or backings , regulatory approval , availability through an authorized source , etc .
A friend of a friend is in the business of selling supply packages for a specific law enforcement function via government contract .
He 's repackaging and selling items anyone could get at retail for a fraction of the cost .
In fact , it was my friend who suggested to his associate that the supplies included in the packages not be the ones embossed the with house-brand label of the supplier from which he was getting them , since it would n't take too long for the end-user to realize that they could purchase the same items on their own .
Or , look at medical fast drying adhesives ( e.g .
" super glue " ) .
Boxers were using glues they bought at hardware stores for years before the medical community considered a medical use .
Now doctors and clinics can order supplies of " medical grade " superglue that cost many times more than their non-medical versions .
According to my physician , there really was no difference between the two products .
The medical one was simply something billable at a higher price , and it carried the implied benefit of being somehow more sterile than the other product .
I do n't know if there is any real difference in how the lots are produced , but our doctor recommended " super glue " for quick at-home fix ups of cuts and gouges that might otherwise might require a stitch ( or staple ) or two .
Just give it some time and you 'll likely see lawyers and lobbyists from medical device manufacturers fighting to stop the practice of using " non-approved " devices for patient diagnosis , therapy , or prevention .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Supply and demand aside, when it comes to medical devices (or any special purpose device or package, for that matter), you often pay a premium for intangible features--specific certifications or backings, regulatory approval, availability through an authorized source, etc.
A friend of a friend is in the business of selling supply packages for a specific law enforcement function via government contract.
He's repackaging and selling items anyone could get at retail for a fraction of the cost.
In fact, it was my friend who suggested to his associate that the supplies included in the packages not be the ones embossed the with house-brand label of the supplier from which he was getting them, since it wouldn't take too long for the end-user to realize that they could purchase the same items on their own.
Or, look at medical fast drying adhesives (e.g.
"super glue").
Boxers were using glues they bought at hardware stores for years before the medical community considered a medical use.
Now doctors and clinics can order supplies of "medical grade" superglue that cost many times more than their non-medical versions.
According to my physician, there really was no difference between the two products.
The medical one was simply something billable at a higher price, and it carried the implied benefit of being somehow more sterile than the other product.
I don't know if there is any real difference in how the lots are produced, but our doctor recommended "super glue" for quick at-home fix ups of cuts and gouges that might otherwise might require a stitch (or staple) or two.
Just give it some time and you'll likely see lawyers and lobbyists from medical device manufacturers fighting to stop the practice of using "non-approved" devices for patient diagnosis, therapy, or prevention.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30808474</id>
	<title>Re:What have we here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263833100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's cheaper to make one piece of hardware and cripple it for the "low end" market. The board itself costs nothing to make, but developing it...</p><p>Its the same where I work, make one piece of hardware that can do all, cripple firmware wise for the "masses" and put the bill for developing the highend options on the highend buyers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's cheaper to make one piece of hardware and cripple it for the " low end " market .
The board itself costs nothing to make , but developing it...Its the same where I work , make one piece of hardware that can do all , cripple firmware wise for the " masses " and put the bill for developing the highend options on the highend buyers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's cheaper to make one piece of hardware and cripple it for the "low end" market.
The board itself costs nothing to make, but developing it...Its the same where I work, make one piece of hardware that can do all, cripple firmware wise for the "masses" and put the bill for developing the highend options on the highend buyers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802332</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30835112</id>
	<title>Re:sounds familiar</title>
	<author>b4dc0d3r</author>
	<datestamp>1264015320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pretty sure this has been debunked, because the $800 hammer has to be tested to withstand zero-pressure, frozen environments without breaking or becoming useless.  Even if it requires no modifications, someone smart (meaning lots of $$$ per hour) has to test it completely to make sure it doesn't fail.  You can't just send up a normal hammer and hope it works, and you can't send up 10 of everything because each ounce of payload adds to the fuel costs.  You certainly can't afford to hope your environment doesn't become depressurized instead of doing actual testing, because one tiny hole renders your equipment unusable until a supply mission comes back up.</p><p>Plus, it has to probably work outside, and you don't just set stuff down outside - it has to be tethered.  And you don't want it flinging around on a bit of string... I'd google it for you but I have more pressing issues.  Don't look for rhetoric like "$800 hammer" - try searching for the opposite of what you believe like "why is military hardware overpriced" or "explanations for $800 hammer".  you'll be surprised.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pretty sure this has been debunked , because the $ 800 hammer has to be tested to withstand zero-pressure , frozen environments without breaking or becoming useless .
Even if it requires no modifications , someone smart ( meaning lots of $ $ $ per hour ) has to test it completely to make sure it does n't fail .
You ca n't just send up a normal hammer and hope it works , and you ca n't send up 10 of everything because each ounce of payload adds to the fuel costs .
You certainly ca n't afford to hope your environment does n't become depressurized instead of doing actual testing , because one tiny hole renders your equipment unusable until a supply mission comes back up.Plus , it has to probably work outside , and you do n't just set stuff down outside - it has to be tethered .
And you do n't want it flinging around on a bit of string... I 'd google it for you but I have more pressing issues .
Do n't look for rhetoric like " $ 800 hammer " - try searching for the opposite of what you believe like " why is military hardware overpriced " or " explanations for $ 800 hammer " .
you 'll be surprised .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pretty sure this has been debunked, because the $800 hammer has to be tested to withstand zero-pressure, frozen environments without breaking or becoming useless.
Even if it requires no modifications, someone smart (meaning lots of $$$ per hour) has to test it completely to make sure it doesn't fail.
You can't just send up a normal hammer and hope it works, and you can't send up 10 of everything because each ounce of payload adds to the fuel costs.
You certainly can't afford to hope your environment doesn't become depressurized instead of doing actual testing, because one tiny hole renders your equipment unusable until a supply mission comes back up.Plus, it has to probably work outside, and you don't just set stuff down outside - it has to be tethered.
And you don't want it flinging around on a bit of string... I'd google it for you but I have more pressing issues.
Don't look for rhetoric like "$800 hammer" - try searching for the opposite of what you believe like "why is military hardware overpriced" or "explanations for $800 hammer".
you'll be surprised.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802948</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801582</id>
	<title>Re:"Not for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ use"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263725580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What determinds the price is production, and demand. The wiimote is mass produced, which makes the price even less. And its in high demand.<br>Medical equipment? There is a certain number of hospitals involved ordering X amount of copies, and the demand is static. They will also pay for it. Basically its overpriced, but the question is how much its overpriced.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What determinds the price is production , and demand .
The wiimote is mass produced , which makes the price even less .
And its in high demand.Medical equipment ?
There is a certain number of hospitals involved ordering X amount of copies , and the demand is static .
They will also pay for it .
Basically its overpriced , but the question is how much its overpriced .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What determinds the price is production, and demand.
The wiimote is mass produced, which makes the price even less.
And its in high demand.Medical equipment?
There is a certain number of hospitals involved ordering X amount of copies, and the demand is static.
They will also pay for it.
Basically its overpriced, but the question is how much its overpriced.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801526</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30821210</id>
	<title>More of the same thing...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263925260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Basically I think some of the above posters have it right, I work in the medical software industry.  Now unlike hardware there is absolutely no component cost to software, so why is our medical software so much more expensive then comparable non-medical software, hell why isn't it free?</p><p>Well, first of all there's the development costs.  But that could be said for any other industry so we'll rule that out as a base cost for all similar software packages.<br>Then there's QC cost and support cost, unlike other industries if something goes wrong with our medical software someone could get seriously hurt.  We have to perform a lot of QC and make sure we offer 24 hour support.  The support also needs to be more trained and in some cases have a medical background, so that adds on to costs.<br>Then there is also liability.  If our software files information into the wrong patient file someone could get seriously hurt.  That means we have to assume liability for a malfunction, which is a huge incentive to buy from us despite the high costs.  These things raise the price significantly.  Now the software is still basically the same as it's non-medical counter part but our price tag is much higher.  This means that people that don't need to worry about high QC standards and great support won't buy our product, which means we now have to target a limited marketplace.  To make up for the limited market place we have to raise the price even more.</p><p>It's not that medical equipment or software manufacturers are greedy people that are trying to rip everyone off, that money that the product brings in is actually distributed amongst a lot more channels than a non-medical device.  It's necessary to help assure quality and accountability.</p><p>Same thing goes for the $18,000 dollar piece of equipment vs. the $100 one.  If a patient is miss-diagnosed on the $100 device, who is going to be accountable?  Is it the doctor that probably should have double checked the results but didn't because he was busy with other patients?  Is it Nintendo?  Is it the hospital?  The answer is it's sure as hell not Nintendo, they'll say they're not responsible for users miss using the device.  And it probably should be the doctor but the doctor doesn't want that, nor does the hospital.  In fact the doctor and the hospital would both gladly pay $18,000 dollars for the same device just so that they can off load their liabilities on someone else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Basically I think some of the above posters have it right , I work in the medical software industry .
Now unlike hardware there is absolutely no component cost to software , so why is our medical software so much more expensive then comparable non-medical software , hell why is n't it free ? Well , first of all there 's the development costs .
But that could be said for any other industry so we 'll rule that out as a base cost for all similar software packages.Then there 's QC cost and support cost , unlike other industries if something goes wrong with our medical software someone could get seriously hurt .
We have to perform a lot of QC and make sure we offer 24 hour support .
The support also needs to be more trained and in some cases have a medical background , so that adds on to costs.Then there is also liability .
If our software files information into the wrong patient file someone could get seriously hurt .
That means we have to assume liability for a malfunction , which is a huge incentive to buy from us despite the high costs .
These things raise the price significantly .
Now the software is still basically the same as it 's non-medical counter part but our price tag is much higher .
This means that people that do n't need to worry about high QC standards and great support wo n't buy our product , which means we now have to target a limited marketplace .
To make up for the limited market place we have to raise the price even more.It 's not that medical equipment or software manufacturers are greedy people that are trying to rip everyone off , that money that the product brings in is actually distributed amongst a lot more channels than a non-medical device .
It 's necessary to help assure quality and accountability.Same thing goes for the $ 18,000 dollar piece of equipment vs. the $ 100 one .
If a patient is miss-diagnosed on the $ 100 device , who is going to be accountable ?
Is it the doctor that probably should have double checked the results but did n't because he was busy with other patients ?
Is it Nintendo ?
Is it the hospital ?
The answer is it 's sure as hell not Nintendo , they 'll say they 're not responsible for users miss using the device .
And it probably should be the doctor but the doctor does n't want that , nor does the hospital .
In fact the doctor and the hospital would both gladly pay $ 18,000 dollars for the same device just so that they can off load their liabilities on someone else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Basically I think some of the above posters have it right, I work in the medical software industry.
Now unlike hardware there is absolutely no component cost to software, so why is our medical software so much more expensive then comparable non-medical software, hell why isn't it free?Well, first of all there's the development costs.
But that could be said for any other industry so we'll rule that out as a base cost for all similar software packages.Then there's QC cost and support cost, unlike other industries if something goes wrong with our medical software someone could get seriously hurt.
We have to perform a lot of QC and make sure we offer 24 hour support.
The support also needs to be more trained and in some cases have a medical background, so that adds on to costs.Then there is also liability.
If our software files information into the wrong patient file someone could get seriously hurt.
That means we have to assume liability for a malfunction, which is a huge incentive to buy from us despite the high costs.
These things raise the price significantly.
Now the software is still basically the same as it's non-medical counter part but our price tag is much higher.
This means that people that don't need to worry about high QC standards and great support won't buy our product, which means we now have to target a limited marketplace.
To make up for the limited market place we have to raise the price even more.It's not that medical equipment or software manufacturers are greedy people that are trying to rip everyone off, that money that the product brings in is actually distributed amongst a lot more channels than a non-medical device.
It's necessary to help assure quality and accountability.Same thing goes for the $18,000 dollar piece of equipment vs. the $100 one.
If a patient is miss-diagnosed on the $100 device, who is going to be accountable?
Is it the doctor that probably should have double checked the results but didn't because he was busy with other patients?
Is it Nintendo?
Is it the hospital?
The answer is it's sure as hell not Nintendo, they'll say they're not responsible for users miss using the device.
And it probably should be the doctor but the doctor doesn't want that, nor does the hospital.
In fact the doctor and the hospital would both gladly pay $18,000 dollars for the same device just so that they can off load their liabilities on someone else.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802392</id>
	<title>But can they use it?</title>
	<author>POds</author>
	<datestamp>1263730980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know in my professional industry, there may be many a cool technology or device that i want to use, but may not be able to, despite the fact it looks good and can handle what i throw at it. However, i may not technically be able to use it because it has not been tested against specific guidelines or a part of the product was not tested against particular standards with the right amount of traceability.</p><p>I believe that&rsquo;s why some particular product may cost more than any other. I.e a device to be used in a medical institute for diagnosis of any kind would probably require quite a lot of process in it's accreditation that the Wii probably didn't have to go through to be used as a game machine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know in my professional industry , there may be many a cool technology or device that i want to use , but may not be able to , despite the fact it looks good and can handle what i throw at it .
However , i may not technically be able to use it because it has not been tested against specific guidelines or a part of the product was not tested against particular standards with the right amount of traceability.I believe that    s why some particular product may cost more than any other .
I.e a device to be used in a medical institute for diagnosis of any kind would probably require quite a lot of process in it 's accreditation that the Wii probably did n't have to go through to be used as a game machine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know in my professional industry, there may be many a cool technology or device that i want to use, but may not be able to, despite the fact it looks good and can handle what i throw at it.
However, i may not technically be able to use it because it has not been tested against specific guidelines or a part of the product was not tested against particular standards with the right amount of traceability.I believe that’s why some particular product may cost more than any other.
I.e a device to be used in a medical institute for diagnosis of any kind would probably require quite a lot of process in it's accreditation that the Wii probably didn't have to go through to be used as a game machine.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801526</id>
	<title>"Not for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ use"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263725100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What determines the price of a scale is not just its equipment or accuracy.. but also the insurance the manufacturer has to carry in case something goes wrong. That's why medical devices are more expensive... you're also paying for the liability of somebody being misdiagnosed by a technical malfunction. Highly unlikely, but the money that has to be paid when that happens and gets proven is huge.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What determines the price of a scale is not just its equipment or accuracy.. but also the insurance the manufacturer has to carry in case something goes wrong .
That 's why medical devices are more expensive... you 're also paying for the liability of somebody being misdiagnosed by a technical malfunction .
Highly unlikely , but the money that has to be paid when that happens and gets proven is huge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What determines the price of a scale is not just its equipment or accuracy.. but also the insurance the manufacturer has to carry in case something goes wrong.
That's why medical devices are more expensive... you're also paying for the liability of somebody being misdiagnosed by a technical malfunction.
Highly unlikely, but the money that has to be paid when that happens and gets proven is huge.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30805410</id>
	<title>Re:What have we here?</title>
	<author>91degrees</author>
	<datestamp>1263846600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think part of what they know is that per-unit R&amp;D costs are a lot lower when you have thousands of customers than when you have dozens...<br> <br>
And the other part is that users will not pay as much as hospitals.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think part of what they know is that per-unit R&amp;D costs are a lot lower when you have thousands of customers than when you have dozens.. . And the other part is that users will not pay as much as hospitals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think part of what they know is that per-unit R&amp;D costs are a lot lower when you have thousands of customers than when you have dozens... 
And the other part is that users will not pay as much as hospitals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802948</id>
	<title>sounds familiar</title>
	<author>sneakyimp</author>
	<datestamp>1263735420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This reminds me of the $800 hammer that defense contractors sold to the US government back in the 80's. It was an ordinary hammer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This reminds me of the $ 800 hammer that defense contractors sold to the US government back in the 80 's .
It was an ordinary hammer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This reminds me of the $800 hammer that defense contractors sold to the US government back in the 80's.
It was an ordinary hammer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30807074</id>
	<title>Recently considering Wii for physiotherapy</title>
	<author>synthespian</author>
	<datestamp>1263824460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny that I should read this today. A couple of days ago, someone told me about the Wii gadgets for balance etc.<br>I had a Jiu-Jitsu-related ankle injury that needs boring and expensive physiotherapy and I had pondered whether the Wii boards wouldn't allow me to ditch my sessions (basically balancing acts throughout the whole session).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny that I should read this today .
A couple of days ago , someone told me about the Wii gadgets for balance etc.I had a Jiu-Jitsu-related ankle injury that needs boring and expensive physiotherapy and I had pondered whether the Wii boards would n't allow me to ditch my sessions ( basically balancing acts throughout the whole session ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny that I should read this today.
A couple of days ago, someone told me about the Wii gadgets for balance etc.I had a Jiu-Jitsu-related ankle injury that needs boring and expensive physiotherapy and I had pondered whether the Wii boards wouldn't allow me to ditch my sessions (basically balancing acts throughout the whole session).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801674</id>
	<title>Re:What have we here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263726120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Video games:  Why waste good technology on science and medicine?

Kidding aside, I think that it's a good thing that these machines are being re-purposed.  I wish that we could do it for a lot more equipment and drive down the cost of health care a little.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Video games : Why waste good technology on science and medicine ?
Kidding aside , I think that it 's a good thing that these machines are being re-purposed .
I wish that we could do it for a lot more equipment and drive down the cost of health care a little .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Video games:  Why waste good technology on science and medicine?
Kidding aside, I think that it's a good thing that these machines are being re-purposed.
I wish that we could do it for a lot more equipment and drive down the cost of health care a little.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30805550</id>
	<title>Robert Ebert</title>
	<author>10Ghz</author>
	<datestamp>1263805740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This reminds me of what happened to Rober Ebert. He lost his voice, and this is what happened:</p><p>"I am one of those you write about who uses a computer voice after losing the power of speech as a result of cancer surgery. After trying an $8,000 custom device with little computing power and a small, dim screen, I tried the built-in speech software on my MacBook and found it much more practical.".</p><p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/19/opinion/l19speech.html?\_r=3" title="nytimes.com">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/19/opinion/l19speech.html?\_r=3</a> [nytimes.com]</p><p>Not only was the "official" solution crap, it was also a lot more expensive than the consumer-device was, which was not even designed for this particular task.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This reminds me of what happened to Rober Ebert .
He lost his voice , and this is what happened : " I am one of those you write about who uses a computer voice after losing the power of speech as a result of cancer surgery .
After trying an $ 8,000 custom device with little computing power and a small , dim screen , I tried the built-in speech software on my MacBook and found it much more practical .
" .http : //www.nytimes.com/2009/09/19/opinion/l19speech.html ? \ _r = 3 [ nytimes.com ] Not only was the " official " solution crap , it was also a lot more expensive than the consumer-device was , which was not even designed for this particular task .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This reminds me of what happened to Rober Ebert.
He lost his voice, and this is what happened:"I am one of those you write about who uses a computer voice after losing the power of speech as a result of cancer surgery.
After trying an $8,000 custom device with little computing power and a small, dim screen, I tried the built-in speech software on my MacBook and found it much more practical.
".http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/19/opinion/l19speech.html?\_r=3 [nytimes.com]Not only was the "official" solution crap, it was also a lot more expensive than the consumer-device was, which was not even designed for this particular task.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801614</id>
	<title>Price has a psychological impact too.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263725760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With price comes respectability. That's why Christian Science practitioners always make a point of charging for their prayers roughly as much as a real doctor would charge for treatment: They know that something given away will not be percieved as effective.</p><p>Same thing here. Stick a patient on a wii board, and they'll regard it as quack rubbish. Stick them on an $18,000 purpose-built and impressive piece of diagnostic equipment with the logo of a respected medical equipment manufacturer (ie, not nintendo) and they'll feel far more confident, even if they do exactly the same thing equally well.</p><p>Customers who feel they arn't being given an expensive enough service are more likely to sue the hospital.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With price comes respectability .
That 's why Christian Science practitioners always make a point of charging for their prayers roughly as much as a real doctor would charge for treatment : They know that something given away will not be percieved as effective.Same thing here .
Stick a patient on a wii board , and they 'll regard it as quack rubbish .
Stick them on an $ 18,000 purpose-built and impressive piece of diagnostic equipment with the logo of a respected medical equipment manufacturer ( ie , not nintendo ) and they 'll feel far more confident , even if they do exactly the same thing equally well.Customers who feel they ar n't being given an expensive enough service are more likely to sue the hospital .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With price comes respectability.
That's why Christian Science practitioners always make a point of charging for their prayers roughly as much as a real doctor would charge for treatment: They know that something given away will not be percieved as effective.Same thing here.
Stick a patient on a wii board, and they'll regard it as quack rubbish.
Stick them on an $18,000 purpose-built and impressive piece of diagnostic equipment with the logo of a respected medical equipment manufacturer (ie, not nintendo) and they'll feel far more confident, even if they do exactly the same thing equally well.Customers who feel they arn't being given an expensive enough service are more likely to sue the hospital.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802178</id>
	<title>Price is in the "too small for insurance" range</title>
	<author>RobertLTux</author>
	<datestamp>1263729600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I could see some folks using this a first stage "cut out" instrument sort of like the difference between<br>most road side BAC tests and a real live blood test or as a "backup" device.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I could see some folks using this a first stage " cut out " instrument sort of like the difference betweenmost road side BAC tests and a real live blood test or as a " backup " device .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I could see some folks using this a first stage "cut out" instrument sort of like the difference betweenmost road side BAC tests and a real live blood test or as a "backup" device.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801568</id>
	<title>No wonder</title>
	<author>ArchieBunker</author>
	<datestamp>1263725460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hospitals charge so much. Someone along the way decided to jack up a price and its been flowing downhill to the consumers ever since.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hospitals charge so much .
Someone along the way decided to jack up a price and its been flowing downhill to the consumers ever since .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hospitals charge so much.
Someone along the way decided to jack up a price and its been flowing downhill to the consumers ever since.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30820374</id>
	<title>Wii Fit helped me walk again</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263921660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had back surgery about 18 months ago and the Wii Fit helped me regain my sense of balance.  Two disks had intruded into the spinal column, crushing the nerves running to my feet.  It had been about a decade since I had feeling in my feet, so I was extremely clumsy after the operation - The new signals just confused the heck out of me, so I was constantly off balance.</p><p>Physical therapy was slow, so we started looking for alternatives.  They were just exploring the Wii for the sports modules to get folks moving in a very fun way.  The Wii fit was fairly new at the time, so I bought it as well.</p><p>In less than two weeks, I was walking normally, thanks to twice daily sessions with the Fit's balance games.  My physical therapist said it would have taken me about two months using traditional twice weekly visits.  (Based on my progress before the Wii Fit.)  They quickly added the Wii Fit to their many machines.</p><p>It truly is a powerful little gizmo!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had back surgery about 18 months ago and the Wii Fit helped me regain my sense of balance .
Two disks had intruded into the spinal column , crushing the nerves running to my feet .
It had been about a decade since I had feeling in my feet , so I was extremely clumsy after the operation - The new signals just confused the heck out of me , so I was constantly off balance.Physical therapy was slow , so we started looking for alternatives .
They were just exploring the Wii for the sports modules to get folks moving in a very fun way .
The Wii fit was fairly new at the time , so I bought it as well.In less than two weeks , I was walking normally , thanks to twice daily sessions with the Fit 's balance games .
My physical therapist said it would have taken me about two months using traditional twice weekly visits .
( Based on my progress before the Wii Fit .
) They quickly added the Wii Fit to their many machines.It truly is a powerful little gizmo !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had back surgery about 18 months ago and the Wii Fit helped me regain my sense of balance.
Two disks had intruded into the spinal column, crushing the nerves running to my feet.
It had been about a decade since I had feeling in my feet, so I was extremely clumsy after the operation - The new signals just confused the heck out of me, so I was constantly off balance.Physical therapy was slow, so we started looking for alternatives.
They were just exploring the Wii for the sports modules to get folks moving in a very fun way.
The Wii fit was fairly new at the time, so I bought it as well.In less than two weeks, I was walking normally, thanks to twice daily sessions with the Fit's balance games.
My physical therapist said it would have taken me about two months using traditional twice weekly visits.
(Based on my progress before the Wii Fit.
)  They quickly added the Wii Fit to their many machines.It truly is a powerful little gizmo!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802168</id>
	<title>A plan to cheapen health care...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263729480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nintendo should work on a fMRI-based game interface that can translate your thoughts into game actions. That should get the price of fMRI scanners down to a few hundred dollars each and immensely benefit medical research.</p><p>Once they are done with that, they can work on a DNA sequencing controller that customizes your on-screen avatar to look and act like you based on your genetic sequence.</p><p>And so forth, until all medical equipment and tests costs a few hundred dollars each.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nintendo should work on a fMRI-based game interface that can translate your thoughts into game actions .
That should get the price of fMRI scanners down to a few hundred dollars each and immensely benefit medical research.Once they are done with that , they can work on a DNA sequencing controller that customizes your on-screen avatar to look and act like you based on your genetic sequence.And so forth , until all medical equipment and tests costs a few hundred dollars each .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nintendo should work on a fMRI-based game interface that can translate your thoughts into game actions.
That should get the price of fMRI scanners down to a few hundred dollars each and immensely benefit medical research.Once they are done with that, they can work on a DNA sequencing controller that customizes your on-screen avatar to look and act like you based on your genetic sequence.And so forth, until all medical equipment and tests costs a few hundred dollars each.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30804566</id>
	<title>Anon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263750060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have worked for both doctors and surgeons, and currently work for a work insurance company and the main reason behind the costs of these equipments is support and insurance. Like people have stated, if someone gets mis-diagnosed then that patient can sure them for a lot more then what they could sue Nintendo because they hurt themselves playing on their wii fit board. If someone gets wrongly diagnosed then the doctor can be looking at $100k's of thousands of dollars of damages alone, and then there is the private practise/ hospital that would also then be sued for a shitload. The device most probably links in with some set of software applications that will then let the doctor send it off to a specialist to look at who can then send it back to the doctor. If something malfunctions with the device or of the doctor has any questions, then they can get support for it straight away.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have worked for both doctors and surgeons , and currently work for a work insurance company and the main reason behind the costs of these equipments is support and insurance .
Like people have stated , if someone gets mis-diagnosed then that patient can sure them for a lot more then what they could sue Nintendo because they hurt themselves playing on their wii fit board .
If someone gets wrongly diagnosed then the doctor can be looking at $ 100k 's of thousands of dollars of damages alone , and then there is the private practise/ hospital that would also then be sued for a shitload .
The device most probably links in with some set of software applications that will then let the doctor send it off to a specialist to look at who can then send it back to the doctor .
If something malfunctions with the device or of the doctor has any questions , then they can get support for it straight away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have worked for both doctors and surgeons, and currently work for a work insurance company and the main reason behind the costs of these equipments is support and insurance.
Like people have stated, if someone gets mis-diagnosed then that patient can sure them for a lot more then what they could sue Nintendo because they hurt themselves playing on their wii fit board.
If someone gets wrongly diagnosed then the doctor can be looking at $100k's of thousands of dollars of damages alone, and then there is the private practise/ hospital that would also then be sued for a shitload.
The device most probably links in with some set of software applications that will then let the doctor send it off to a specialist to look at who can then send it back to the doctor.
If something malfunctions with the device or of the doctor has any questions, then they can get support for it straight away.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801722</id>
	<title>Re:No wonder</title>
	<author>arb phd slp</author>
	<datestamp>1263726300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Hospitals charge so much. Someone along the way decided to jack up a price and its been flowing downhill to the consumers ever since.</p></div><p>Why not? Your health is the most valuable thing you have. As long as it is a commodity that you have to buy from someone, what price wouldn't you pay for it? So far, the market will bear health being a sixth of the entire economy. Shall we try for a fifth?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hospitals charge so much .
Someone along the way decided to jack up a price and its been flowing downhill to the consumers ever since.Why not ?
Your health is the most valuable thing you have .
As long as it is a commodity that you have to buy from someone , what price would n't you pay for it ?
So far , the market will bear health being a sixth of the entire economy .
Shall we try for a fifth ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hospitals charge so much.
Someone along the way decided to jack up a price and its been flowing downhill to the consumers ever since.Why not?
Your health is the most valuable thing you have.
As long as it is a commodity that you have to buy from someone, what price wouldn't you pay for it?
So far, the market will bear health being a sixth of the entire economy.
Shall we try for a fifth?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30803482</id>
	<title>Re:What have we here?</title>
	<author>dbIII</author>
	<datestamp>1263740100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>With the PS3 it's simply the only thing you can get with a cell processor unless you have a military budget (priced way out of the medical and oil exploration markets).  You can buy a cell server or for the same price you can buy the six xeon based servers that can do the same number of raw floating point operations per second.  They'll be slower individually at some things with arrays, but you've got a lot more of them for the money.<br>It's a pity the PS3 has so little memory otherwise I'd have a server room full of them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>With the PS3 it 's simply the only thing you can get with a cell processor unless you have a military budget ( priced way out of the medical and oil exploration markets ) .
You can buy a cell server or for the same price you can buy the six xeon based servers that can do the same number of raw floating point operations per second .
They 'll be slower individually at some things with arrays , but you 've got a lot more of them for the money.It 's a pity the PS3 has so little memory otherwise I 'd have a server room full of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With the PS3 it's simply the only thing you can get with a cell processor unless you have a military budget (priced way out of the medical and oil exploration markets).
You can buy a cell server or for the same price you can buy the six xeon based servers that can do the same number of raw floating point operations per second.
They'll be slower individually at some things with arrays, but you've got a lot more of them for the money.It's a pity the PS3 has so little memory otherwise I'd have a server room full of them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801672</id>
	<title>Perception</title>
	<author>jlb.think</author>
	<datestamp>1263726120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is all just people's perception.  A videogame can't be too expensive, but it damn well better work so the market pushes high quality at low prices.

In the medical world we expect devices to cost out of the ass and be complex.  That is the exact opposite of the videogame, or rather, the general technology world.

It is about time there is direct market competition with the medical device manufactures who rip us off and overcharge for clunky hard to use equipment that doesn't work that well in the first place.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is all just people 's perception .
A videogame ca n't be too expensive , but it damn well better work so the market pushes high quality at low prices .
In the medical world we expect devices to cost out of the ass and be complex .
That is the exact opposite of the videogame , or rather , the general technology world .
It is about time there is direct market competition with the medical device manufactures who rip us off and overcharge for clunky hard to use equipment that does n't work that well in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is all just people's perception.
A videogame can't be too expensive, but it damn well better work so the market pushes high quality at low prices.
In the medical world we expect devices to cost out of the ass and be complex.
That is the exact opposite of the videogame, or rather, the general technology world.
It is about time there is direct market competition with the medical device manufactures who rip us off and overcharge for clunky hard to use equipment that doesn't work that well in the first place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801794</id>
	<title>Re:What have we here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263726780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a guy who designs electronics for load transducers for living, I can tell ya that a balance board equivalent platform won't run you anywhere near $18,000. Probably more like $4k. One thing that makes the Wii device cheap is the mass production. Try selling a 100 of those a year for $100 apiece -- it's impossible. The tooling for plastic injection molding will cost you more than $18k alone. As for electronics themselves, they are not really a factor in the supposed $18k, er, $4k, price. I admit I haven't checked how accurate the balance board is. All I know is that $4k buys you a platform that has ~0.5mm accuracy for center of pressure across its surface of roughly 1/4 m^2. The resolution is better than that, of course.</p><p>OTOH, I'm going out and buying the darn balance board right about now<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a guy who designs electronics for load transducers for living , I can tell ya that a balance board equivalent platform wo n't run you anywhere near $ 18,000 .
Probably more like $ 4k .
One thing that makes the Wii device cheap is the mass production .
Try selling a 100 of those a year for $ 100 apiece -- it 's impossible .
The tooling for plastic injection molding will cost you more than $ 18k alone .
As for electronics themselves , they are not really a factor in the supposed $ 18k , er , $ 4k , price .
I admit I have n't checked how accurate the balance board is .
All I know is that $ 4k buys you a platform that has ~ 0.5mm accuracy for center of pressure across its surface of roughly 1/4 m ^ 2 .
The resolution is better than that , of course.OTOH , I 'm going out and buying the darn balance board right about now : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a guy who designs electronics for load transducers for living, I can tell ya that a balance board equivalent platform won't run you anywhere near $18,000.
Probably more like $4k.
One thing that makes the Wii device cheap is the mass production.
Try selling a 100 of those a year for $100 apiece -- it's impossible.
The tooling for plastic injection molding will cost you more than $18k alone.
As for electronics themselves, they are not really a factor in the supposed $18k, er, $4k, price.
I admit I haven't checked how accurate the balance board is.
All I know is that $4k buys you a platform that has ~0.5mm accuracy for center of pressure across its surface of roughly 1/4 m^2.
The resolution is better than that, of course.OTOH, I'm going out and buying the darn balance board right about now :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30813784</id>
	<title>What's the cost?</title>
	<author>BadAndyJ</author>
	<datestamp>1263815220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The only problem with this kind of story, is the amount the end worker is payed for working for company X isn't taken into account.  The company that makes that $18,000 piece of equipment probably pays their employees building the thing a lot more than Nintendo pays its line labour.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only problem with this kind of story , is the amount the end worker is payed for working for company X is n't taken into account .
The company that makes that $ 18,000 piece of equipment probably pays their employees building the thing a lot more than Nintendo pays its line labour .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only problem with this kind of story, is the amount the end worker is payed for working for company X isn't taken into account.
The company that makes that $18,000 piece of equipment probably pays their employees building the thing a lot more than Nintendo pays its line labour.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801892</id>
	<title>accelerometers?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263727380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"When doctors disassembled the board, they found the accelerometers..."</p><p>They did?  I couldn't find any information stating that the balance board had motion sensing.  Everything I've read says it just has four pressure sensors, one for each corner and that's it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" When doctors disassembled the board , they found the accelerometers... " They did ?
I could n't find any information stating that the balance board had motion sensing .
Everything I 've read says it just has four pressure sensors , one for each corner and that 's it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"When doctors disassembled the board, they found the accelerometers..."They did?
I couldn't find any information stating that the balance board had motion sensing.
Everything I've read says it just has four pressure sensors, one for each corner and that's it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802870</id>
	<title>Just more evidence that the Wii</title>
	<author>lena\_10326</author>
	<datestamp>1263734640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>.... is the most awesomist console ever.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p><p>I have Wii Fit and board. When you do the balance test and balance games you can tell it's a very sensitive and accurate board. It's also an accurate weight scale. It's also very heavy and dense for its dimensions. Much stronger than you think a chunk of plastic would be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.... is the most awesomist console ever .
: DI have Wii Fit and board .
When you do the balance test and balance games you can tell it 's a very sensitive and accurate board .
It 's also an accurate weight scale .
It 's also very heavy and dense for its dimensions .
Much stronger than you think a chunk of plastic would be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.... is the most awesomist console ever.
:DI have Wii Fit and board.
When you do the balance test and balance games you can tell it's a very sensitive and accurate board.
It's also an accurate weight scale.
It's also very heavy and dense for its dimensions.
Much stronger than you think a chunk of plastic would be.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802324</id>
	<title>Medicare won't pay for Wii because of dual purpose</title>
	<author>aspelling</author>
	<datestamp>1263730680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Medicare and many insurance companies won't pay for Wii because it is dual-purpose device<br>NYTimes had a story when they refused to pay for iPhone-based speech synthesizer for a paralyzed patient but had no problems paying $5000 for a desktop based one because the desktop-based device was not able to do anything but synthesize voice<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Medicare and many insurance companies wo n't pay for Wii because it is dual-purpose deviceNYTimes had a story when they refused to pay for iPhone-based speech synthesizer for a paralyzed patient but had no problems paying $ 5000 for a desktop based one because the desktop-based device was not able to do anything but synthesize voice  </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Medicare and many insurance companies won't pay for Wii because it is dual-purpose deviceNYTimes had a story when they refused to pay for iPhone-based speech synthesizer for a paralyzed patient but had no problems paying $5000 for a desktop based one because the desktop-based device was not able to do anything but synthesize voice
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801566</id>
	<title>Obligatory</title>
	<author>Naurgrim</author>
	<datestamp>1263725460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ah, I see you have the machine that goes ping. This is my favorite. You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah , I see you have the machine that goes ping .
This is my favorite .
You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah, I see you have the machine that goes ping.
This is my favorite.
You see we lease it back from the company we sold it to and that way it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30803696</id>
	<title>Re:Price-gouging</title>
	<author>cptdondo</author>
	<datestamp>1263742020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>28 years ago I built a 75' extension cord with medial grade stuff.  Both plugs and the wire in between are "medical grade".  That extension cord is still sitting out side in the weather to this day, as good as the day it was build.  It's been run over by cars, left in the sun for years, left in the rain and snow and ice, been salted and painted.</p><p>It still works.</p><p>Now you can tell me that "medical grade stuff" is overpriced, but I'll stack up my extension cord with anything you can buy from Wall Mart and I bet you mine will come out on top.</p><p>Sometimes more expensive is better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>28 years ago I built a 75 ' extension cord with medial grade stuff .
Both plugs and the wire in between are " medical grade " .
That extension cord is still sitting out side in the weather to this day , as good as the day it was build .
It 's been run over by cars , left in the sun for years , left in the rain and snow and ice , been salted and painted.It still works.Now you can tell me that " medical grade stuff " is overpriced , but I 'll stack up my extension cord with anything you can buy from Wall Mart and I bet you mine will come out on top.Sometimes more expensive is better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>28 years ago I built a 75' extension cord with medial grade stuff.
Both plugs and the wire in between are "medical grade".
That extension cord is still sitting out side in the weather to this day, as good as the day it was build.
It's been run over by cars, left in the sun for years, left in the rain and snow and ice, been salted and painted.It still works.Now you can tell me that "medical grade stuff" is overpriced, but I'll stack up my extension cord with anything you can buy from Wall Mart and I bet you mine will come out on top.Sometimes more expensive is better.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801598</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802838</id>
	<title>Been there.</title>
	<author>VertigoMan</author>
	<datestamp>1263734400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I lost all the balance function in my ears more than 5 years ago.  At that time only one center in the Phoenix area had the testing equipment.  It took me 3 months to get in for testing and the testing ended up costing me close to $500.  Oh and that was out of pocket as the testing center wasn't covered on my insurance plan.  I would love to see something as inexpensive as this as a first round of testing.  Would have saved me months of stress over not knowing what the hell was going on.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I lost all the balance function in my ears more than 5 years ago .
At that time only one center in the Phoenix area had the testing equipment .
It took me 3 months to get in for testing and the testing ended up costing me close to $ 500 .
Oh and that was out of pocket as the testing center was n't covered on my insurance plan .
I would love to see something as inexpensive as this as a first round of testing .
Would have saved me months of stress over not knowing what the hell was going on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I lost all the balance function in my ears more than 5 years ago.
At that time only one center in the Phoenix area had the testing equipment.
It took me 3 months to get in for testing and the testing ended up costing me close to $500.
Oh and that was out of pocket as the testing center wasn't covered on my insurance plan.
I would love to see something as inexpensive as this as a first round of testing.
Would have saved me months of stress over not knowing what the hell was going on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801968</id>
	<title>Re:What have we here?</title>
	<author>Kjella</author>
	<datestamp>1263727920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And that something is producing 65 million units, and selling only a slight profit because it also sells game licenses, accessories and so on. I don't recall ever standing on a balance board at any doctor or hospital I've been to, and lots of people can probably use that one board, so I'm guessing the market is tiny.</p><p>P.S. It's not that solid. My pad has gotten to the point where the standing on one foot exercises will make the board black out. I use it as a weight with tracking these days, I was getting tired of the same old things anyway and it was well worth the money as long as it lasted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And that something is producing 65 million units , and selling only a slight profit because it also sells game licenses , accessories and so on .
I do n't recall ever standing on a balance board at any doctor or hospital I 've been to , and lots of people can probably use that one board , so I 'm guessing the market is tiny.P.S .
It 's not that solid .
My pad has gotten to the point where the standing on one foot exercises will make the board black out .
I use it as a weight with tracking these days , I was getting tired of the same old things anyway and it was well worth the money as long as it lasted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And that something is producing 65 million units, and selling only a slight profit because it also sells game licenses, accessories and so on.
I don't recall ever standing on a balance board at any doctor or hospital I've been to, and lots of people can probably use that one board, so I'm guessing the market is tiny.P.S.
It's not that solid.
My pad has gotten to the point where the standing on one foot exercises will make the board black out.
I use it as a weight with tracking these days, I was getting tired of the same old things anyway and it was well worth the money as long as it lasted.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30803318</id>
	<title>Reason is very simple</title>
	<author>Improv</author>
	<datestamp>1263738480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Behold: economies of scale.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Behold : economies of scale .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Behold: economies of scale.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30809870</id>
	<title>What would you expect?</title>
	<author>whitroth</author>
	<datestamp>1263839640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see one idiot babbles in the comments to this article about "heavily regulated industry needing tort reform".</p><p>The reality is that the medical industry needs more regulation, since their mission statement isn't providing goods and/or services, and making a reasonable profit, it's 1. ROI, 2. ROI, 3. See #1,  sell something that the customers will buy, and that we can get a deal with the health insurance companies so that we both make out like bandits, and  Did I mention ROI?</p><p>Another example: why do hearing aids cost $1k and up... and a cellphone well under a hundred, or any music player under? Why can't one be produced with the sound quality of any headphone set, with microphone and one-chip amplifier, and sold at commodity prices for under $100, and cheap ones under $50?</p><p>As I said, because the REAL cause of massively rising healthcare costs is how the industry, not even necessarily doctors, can make out like bandits.</p><p>Oh, and about tort reform as some sort of answer? Go pay the $36 for the report from that company in PA that's the *ONLY* one who collects such stats. Last time that report made the news, maybe 5-6 years ago, it was a tiny amount of malpractice awards that were over $1M, and something like well under 10\% of the doctors who were responsible for 90\% of the malpractice awards.</p><p>But self-regulation works *so* well... that these incompetent scum stay in business after lawsuit after lawsuit.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mark</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see one idiot babbles in the comments to this article about " heavily regulated industry needing tort reform " .The reality is that the medical industry needs more regulation , since their mission statement is n't providing goods and/or services , and making a reasonable profit , it 's 1 .
ROI , 2 .
ROI , 3 .
See # 1 , sell something that the customers will buy , and that we can get a deal with the health insurance companies so that we both make out like bandits , and Did I mention ROI ? Another example : why do hearing aids cost $ 1k and up... and a cellphone well under a hundred , or any music player under ?
Why ca n't one be produced with the sound quality of any headphone set , with microphone and one-chip amplifier , and sold at commodity prices for under $ 100 , and cheap ones under $ 50 ? As I said , because the REAL cause of massively rising healthcare costs is how the industry , not even necessarily doctors , can make out like bandits.Oh , and about tort reform as some sort of answer ?
Go pay the $ 36 for the report from that company in PA that 's the * ONLY * one who collects such stats .
Last time that report made the news , maybe 5-6 years ago , it was a tiny amount of malpractice awards that were over $ 1M , and something like well under 10 \ % of the doctors who were responsible for 90 \ % of the malpractice awards.But self-regulation works * so * well... that these incompetent scum stay in business after lawsuit after lawsuit .
                          mark</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see one idiot babbles in the comments to this article about "heavily regulated industry needing tort reform".The reality is that the medical industry needs more regulation, since their mission statement isn't providing goods and/or services, and making a reasonable profit, it's 1.
ROI, 2.
ROI, 3.
See #1,  sell something that the customers will buy, and that we can get a deal with the health insurance companies so that we both make out like bandits, and  Did I mention ROI?Another example: why do hearing aids cost $1k and up... and a cellphone well under a hundred, or any music player under?
Why can't one be produced with the sound quality of any headphone set, with microphone and one-chip amplifier, and sold at commodity prices for under $100, and cheap ones under $50?As I said, because the REAL cause of massively rising healthcare costs is how the industry, not even necessarily doctors, can make out like bandits.Oh, and about tort reform as some sort of answer?
Go pay the $36 for the report from that company in PA that's the *ONLY* one who collects such stats.
Last time that report made the news, maybe 5-6 years ago, it was a tiny amount of malpractice awards that were over $1M, and something like well under 10\% of the doctors who were responsible for 90\% of the malpractice awards.But self-regulation works *so* well... that these incompetent scum stay in business after lawsuit after lawsuit.
                          mark</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802332</id>
	<title>Re:What have we here?</title>
	<author>lanner</author>
	<datestamp>1263730680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's all BS.  Forget all of the posts regarding FDA, documentation, testing, and that crap.</p><p>It's just a matter of how many units get sold, like microprocessors.</p><p>If you design, make, and sell one, it's $500 million.  If you design one, make 500 million, and sell 500 million, they cost $1 each.  Profit is the same either way.</p><p>Not a lot of people buy medical devices, with some exceptions.</p><p>Nintendo can't make them and start with high prices, then drop them later.  They have to assume how many they will make, sell, and guess a good price before their first unit is sold.</p><p>And yes, I have worked in medical device manufacturing, and I currently work in non-profit cancer research.  We have numerous genetic sequencers around, like ones from Illumina.  They cost like $750K each, but it's really surprising how little materials is actually in them.  A $500 laptop is technologically 10,000 times more advanced than one of those Illumina boxes.</p><p>It's true that medical devices are more expensive, and I'd be the first person crying foul about it, but they often really really do have good reasons to justify the higher costs... usually.</p><p>If you want to talk about price rape, look no further than Cisco.</p><p>$2000 card<br><a href="http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=1352161" title="cdw.com">http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=1352161</a> [cdw.com]</p><p>$13,0000 card<br><a href="http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=1424619" title="cdw.com">http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=1424619</a> [cdw.com]</p><p>They are the SAME EXACT CARD, with a little tiny firmware tweak.  We have a couple of these in the 5580 series firewalls.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's all BS .
Forget all of the posts regarding FDA , documentation , testing , and that crap.It 's just a matter of how many units get sold , like microprocessors.If you design , make , and sell one , it 's $ 500 million .
If you design one , make 500 million , and sell 500 million , they cost $ 1 each .
Profit is the same either way.Not a lot of people buy medical devices , with some exceptions.Nintendo ca n't make them and start with high prices , then drop them later .
They have to assume how many they will make , sell , and guess a good price before their first unit is sold.And yes , I have worked in medical device manufacturing , and I currently work in non-profit cancer research .
We have numerous genetic sequencers around , like ones from Illumina .
They cost like $ 750K each , but it 's really surprising how little materials is actually in them .
A $ 500 laptop is technologically 10,000 times more advanced than one of those Illumina boxes.It 's true that medical devices are more expensive , and I 'd be the first person crying foul about it , but they often really really do have good reasons to justify the higher costs... usually.If you want to talk about price rape , look no further than Cisco. $ 2000 cardhttp : //www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx ? EDC = 1352161 [ cdw.com ] $ 13,0000 cardhttp : //www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx ? edc = 1424619 [ cdw.com ] They are the SAME EXACT CARD , with a little tiny firmware tweak .
We have a couple of these in the 5580 series firewalls .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's all BS.
Forget all of the posts regarding FDA, documentation, testing, and that crap.It's just a matter of how many units get sold, like microprocessors.If you design, make, and sell one, it's $500 million.
If you design one, make 500 million, and sell 500 million, they cost $1 each.
Profit is the same either way.Not a lot of people buy medical devices, with some exceptions.Nintendo can't make them and start with high prices, then drop them later.
They have to assume how many they will make, sell, and guess a good price before their first unit is sold.And yes, I have worked in medical device manufacturing, and I currently work in non-profit cancer research.
We have numerous genetic sequencers around, like ones from Illumina.
They cost like $750K each, but it's really surprising how little materials is actually in them.
A $500 laptop is technologically 10,000 times more advanced than one of those Illumina boxes.It's true that medical devices are more expensive, and I'd be the first person crying foul about it, but they often really really do have good reasons to justify the higher costs... usually.If you want to talk about price rape, look no further than Cisco.$2000 cardhttp://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=1352161 [cdw.com]$13,0000 cardhttp://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=1424619 [cdw.com]They are the SAME EXACT CARD, with a little tiny firmware tweak.
We have a couple of these in the 5580 series firewalls.</sentencetext>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30802034</id>
	<title>Re:What have we here?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263728520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The Wii Balance Board is the Canada of medical devices. Cheap, but just as effective as its expensive counterparts</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Wii Balance Board is the Canada of medical devices .
Cheap , but just as effective as its expensive counterparts</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Wii Balance Board is the Canada of medical devices.
Cheap, but just as effective as its expensive counterparts</sentencetext>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30801910</id>
	<title>Wii Fit vs Wii Fit Plus</title>
	<author>LostCluster</author>
	<datestamp>1263727500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When the Wii Fit first came out... there were several modes of operation that the experts thought should be in the software. Nintendo's first response was to say such people were welcome to develop their own games, then when realizing they were so simple to program the $20 new disk called "Wii Fit Plus" (which now replaces the original disk in the new package for new users) was Nintendo's make good.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When the Wii Fit first came out... there were several modes of operation that the experts thought should be in the software .
Nintendo 's first response was to say such people were welcome to develop their own games , then when realizing they were so simple to program the $ 20 new disk called " Wii Fit Plus " ( which now replaces the original disk in the new package for new users ) was Nintendo 's make good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When the Wii Fit first came out... there were several modes of operation that the experts thought should be in the software.
Nintendo's first response was to say such people were welcome to develop their own games, then when realizing they were so simple to program the $20 new disk called "Wii Fit Plus" (which now replaces the original disk in the new package for new users) was Nintendo's make good.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_17_2127233.30804754</id>
	<title>Do we need any more evidence than this that there</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263751980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do we need any more evidence than this that there isn't a free market in medical care... and that there should be?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do we need any more evidence than this that there is n't a free market in medical care... and that there should be ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do we need any more evidence than this that there isn't a free market in medical care... and that there should be?</sentencetext>
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