<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_16_075240</id>
	<title>Should Gaming Worlds Join the Workplace?</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1263640440000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>destinyland writes <i>"A Stanford professor argues that <a href="http://hplusmagazine.com/articles/art-entertainment/turning-work-play-online-games">gaming worlds can keep workers engaged</a>, and advocates elements of <em>World of Warcraft</em> or <em>Second Life</em> to hone workplace skills like teamwork, leadership, and data analysis. An IBM report also argues games like <em>World of Warcraft</em> teach leadership and that 'there is no reason to think the same cannot be done in corporate settings of various sizes.' The professor even suggests putting online gaming experiences into your resume. ('There's just so much that gets done [in a virtual world] that's just right on target with what happens in real business.')  And Google's CEO also claims that multiplayer gaming also provides good career training, especially for technology careers. 'Everything in the future online is going to look like a multiplayer game. If I were 15 years old, that's what I would be doing right now... It teaches players to build a network, to use interactive skills and thinking.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>destinyland writes " A Stanford professor argues that gaming worlds can keep workers engaged , and advocates elements of World of Warcraft or Second Life to hone workplace skills like teamwork , leadership , and data analysis .
An IBM report also argues games like World of Warcraft teach leadership and that 'there is no reason to think the same can not be done in corporate settings of various sizes .
' The professor even suggests putting online gaming experiences into your resume .
( 'There 's just so much that gets done [ in a virtual world ] that 's just right on target with what happens in real business .
' ) And Google 's CEO also claims that multiplayer gaming also provides good career training , especially for technology careers .
'Everything in the future online is going to look like a multiplayer game .
If I were 15 years old , that 's what I would be doing right now... It teaches players to build a network , to use interactive skills and thinking .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>destinyland writes "A Stanford professor argues that gaming worlds can keep workers engaged, and advocates elements of World of Warcraft or Second Life to hone workplace skills like teamwork, leadership, and data analysis.
An IBM report also argues games like World of Warcraft teach leadership and that 'there is no reason to think the same cannot be done in corporate settings of various sizes.
' The professor even suggests putting online gaming experiences into your resume.
('There's just so much that gets done [in a virtual world] that's just right on target with what happens in real business.
')  And Google's CEO also claims that multiplayer gaming also provides good career training, especially for technology careers.
'Everything in the future online is going to look like a multiplayer game.
If I were 15 years old, that's what I would be doing right now... It teaches players to build a network, to use interactive skills and thinking.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789722</id>
	<title>I've Seen This Work</title>
	<author>smitty777</author>
	<datestamp>1263650280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At the first company I worked for, the entire department I worked with would shut the doors and get a massive game of Quake going every Friday. It was a great chance for team building. It was also a great level setter - the manager wasn't always the best shot, you know.  I agree that this can be a really productive thing if it's done right.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At the first company I worked for , the entire department I worked with would shut the doors and get a massive game of Quake going every Friday .
It was a great chance for team building .
It was also a great level setter - the manager was n't always the best shot , you know .
I agree that this can be a really productive thing if it 's done right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At the first company I worked for, the entire department I worked with would shut the doors and get a massive game of Quake going every Friday.
It was a great chance for team building.
It was also a great level setter - the manager wasn't always the best shot, you know.
I agree that this can be a really productive thing if it's done right.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30792498</id>
	<title>Re:Dear God no.</title>
	<author>julesh</author>
	<datestamp>1263674400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I don't want work to be this endless soul crushing grind. I don't want my own experience to be considered worthless because the guy next door has the 4 str 4 stam belt. I don't want to be packed into a department of soulless adolescents who can't even talk normally. I don't want to push 90 hour weeks to hit my next milestone. I don't want my supervisor shrieking at me to get on vent for 21st century cutting edge micromanagement.</i></p><p>I take it you've decided not to work in IT then?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't want work to be this endless soul crushing grind .
I do n't want my own experience to be considered worthless because the guy next door has the 4 str 4 stam belt .
I do n't want to be packed into a department of soulless adolescents who ca n't even talk normally .
I do n't want to push 90 hour weeks to hit my next milestone .
I do n't want my supervisor shrieking at me to get on vent for 21st century cutting edge micromanagement.I take it you 've decided not to work in IT then ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't want work to be this endless soul crushing grind.
I don't want my own experience to be considered worthless because the guy next door has the 4 str 4 stam belt.
I don't want to be packed into a department of soulless adolescents who can't even talk normally.
I don't want to push 90 hour weeks to hit my next milestone.
I don't want my supervisor shrieking at me to get on vent for 21st century cutting edge micromanagement.I take it you've decided not to work in IT then?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789358</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789744</id>
	<title>Re:Virtual worlds, yes. Games, not so much.</title>
	<author>deniable</author>
	<datestamp>1263650580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>WoW and similar games can indeed hone or help assess leadership skills.... but only with people who already play Wow.  For newbies, the time to learn play the game and train up to a level where there are meaningful leadership and teaming aspects (raids) is largely wasted.</p> </div><p>
So you're saying that leaders and managers need to learn how to do the job first? Where were you when we had consultants in?
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>WoW and similar games can indeed hone or help assess leadership skills.... but only with people who already play Wow .
For newbies , the time to learn play the game and train up to a level where there are meaningful leadership and teaming aspects ( raids ) is largely wasted .
So you 're saying that leaders and managers need to learn how to do the job first ?
Where were you when we had consultants in ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WoW and similar games can indeed hone or help assess leadership skills.... but only with people who already play Wow.
For newbies, the time to learn play the game and train up to a level where there are meaningful leadership and teaming aspects (raids) is largely wasted.
So you're saying that leaders and managers need to learn how to do the job first?
Where were you when we had consultants in?

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789434</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30791484</id>
	<title>"Management by Dual Neutron Disruptor spells doom</title>
	<author>D4C5CE</author>
	<datestamp>1263666960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>(or was that Doom?) for underperformers in Corporate First-Person MUD"</p></div></blockquote><p>
Seen through the crystal ball: headline from an HR management magazine, 2013 A.D. approx.</p><blockquote><div><p>Firing by capital punishment: "The mind makes it real" for Matrix implantees</p></div></blockquote><p>
Similar publication by 2017<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-/</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>( or was that Doom ?
) for underperformers in Corporate First-Person MUD " Seen through the crystal ball : headline from an HR management magazine , 2013 A.D. approx.Firing by capital punishment : " The mind makes it real " for Matrix implantees Similar publication by 2017 ; -/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(or was that Doom?
) for underperformers in Corporate First-Person MUD"
Seen through the crystal ball: headline from an HR management magazine, 2013 A.D. approx.Firing by capital punishment: "The mind makes it real" for Matrix implantees
Similar publication by 2017 ;-/
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789548</id>
	<title>Re:Bad Advice</title>
	<author>JaredOfEuropa</author>
	<datestamp>1263648420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Having an avatar interact with other avatars is psychologically quite different from interacting with someone in front of you.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Exactly, and that is why the Google guy has a point.  In the future, especially in a globalised yet CO2-lean world, contact with others will increasingly be virtual.  If that is what you'll have to deal with in the future, you will have to learn the necesary social skills for virtual meetings.  Games are one place to pick up such skills...  though I expect the advice to 15 years olds to play such games in order to pick up these new social skills is a but superfluous; kids of that age will most likely gain those skills as they go along, without having to think about them much.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Having an avatar interact with other avatars is psychologically quite different from interacting with someone in front of you .
Exactly , and that is why the Google guy has a point .
In the future , especially in a globalised yet CO2-lean world , contact with others will increasingly be virtual .
If that is what you 'll have to deal with in the future , you will have to learn the necesary social skills for virtual meetings .
Games are one place to pick up such skills... though I expect the advice to 15 years olds to play such games in order to pick up these new social skills is a but superfluous ; kids of that age will most likely gain those skills as they go along , without having to think about them much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having an avatar interact with other avatars is psychologically quite different from interacting with someone in front of you.
Exactly, and that is why the Google guy has a point.
In the future, especially in a globalised yet CO2-lean world, contact with others will increasingly be virtual.
If that is what you'll have to deal with in the future, you will have to learn the necesary social skills for virtual meetings.
Games are one place to pick up such skills...  though I expect the advice to 15 years olds to play such games in order to pick up these new social skills is a but superfluous; kids of that age will most likely gain those skills as they go along, without having to think about them much.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789898</id>
	<title>He clearly means after hours games</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263652740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>  Getting the whole of an office to play games after hours, adding
mindless repeativitive (but enjoyable) gaming, on top of mindless
repeative work. Offers managers the chance of reducing independent
thought, having employees in the office for longer, and giving them
a escapism in place of any more expensive bonuses (like pay rises),
sounds like a management win to me.
<p>
---
</p><p>
<a href="http://www.feeddistiller.com/blogs/MUD\%20Games/feed.html" title="feeddistiller.com">MUD (&amp; MMOD) Games</a> [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ <a href="http://www.feeddistiller.com/" title="feeddistiller.com">Feed Distiller</a> [feeddistiller.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Getting the whole of an office to play games after hours , adding mindless repeativitive ( but enjoyable ) gaming , on top of mindless repeative work .
Offers managers the chance of reducing independent thought , having employees in the office for longer , and giving them a escapism in place of any more expensive bonuses ( like pay rises ) , sounds like a management win to me .
--- MUD ( &amp; MMOD ) Games [ feeddistiller.com ] Feed @ Feed Distiller [ feeddistiller.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  Getting the whole of an office to play games after hours, adding
mindless repeativitive (but enjoyable) gaming, on top of mindless
repeative work.
Offers managers the chance of reducing independent
thought, having employees in the office for longer, and giving them
a escapism in place of any more expensive bonuses (like pay rises),
sounds like a management win to me.
---

MUD (&amp; MMOD) Games [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ Feed Distiller [feeddistiller.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789468</id>
	<title>Should drinking &amp; passing out join the workpla</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263647340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Should sleeping instead of working join the workplace? Should watching porn at work join the workplace?
<p>
How long does it take to get good at online gaming? A good use of your time when you could be learning many various job related skills, eh? Are those skills, like in FPS games a good match for the workplace? Having really quick responses so you can kill your opponent are a clear win for cooperation with co-workers. GTA is a great tool for improving your interpersonal skills and business ethics. Maybe if your future plans include carjacking.
 </p><p>
With a tag line like "If I were 15 years old, that's what I would be doing right now..."  I know that this is profound analysis. Fifteen year-olds are a model of forward thinking and acute planning for the future. This is why the driving age is 16, and why the vehicle accident rates go down so much between 16 and 25.
</p><p>
Gosh, any chance the prof at Stanford is whoring for some internet fame? Could be he feels that he is becoming irrelevant so he wants to connect with the young people by endorsing what ever they seem to be doing? Just wondering...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Should sleeping instead of working join the workplace ?
Should watching porn at work join the workplace ?
How long does it take to get good at online gaming ?
A good use of your time when you could be learning many various job related skills , eh ?
Are those skills , like in FPS games a good match for the workplace ?
Having really quick responses so you can kill your opponent are a clear win for cooperation with co-workers .
GTA is a great tool for improving your interpersonal skills and business ethics .
Maybe if your future plans include carjacking .
With a tag line like " If I were 15 years old , that 's what I would be doing right now... " I know that this is profound analysis .
Fifteen year-olds are a model of forward thinking and acute planning for the future .
This is why the driving age is 16 , and why the vehicle accident rates go down so much between 16 and 25 .
Gosh , any chance the prof at Stanford is whoring for some internet fame ?
Could be he feels that he is becoming irrelevant so he wants to connect with the young people by endorsing what ever they seem to be doing ?
Just wondering.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Should sleeping instead of working join the workplace?
Should watching porn at work join the workplace?
How long does it take to get good at online gaming?
A good use of your time when you could be learning many various job related skills, eh?
Are those skills, like in FPS games a good match for the workplace?
Having really quick responses so you can kill your opponent are a clear win for cooperation with co-workers.
GTA is a great tool for improving your interpersonal skills and business ethics.
Maybe if your future plans include carjacking.
With a tag line like "If I were 15 years old, that's what I would be doing right now..."  I know that this is profound analysis.
Fifteen year-olds are a model of forward thinking and acute planning for the future.
This is why the driving age is 16, and why the vehicle accident rates go down so much between 16 and 25.
Gosh, any chance the prof at Stanford is whoring for some internet fame?
Could be he feels that he is becoming irrelevant so he wants to connect with the young people by endorsing what ever they seem to be doing?
Just wondering...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789620</id>
	<title>MMO teamwork is not the same as work teamwork</title>
	<author>PeteV</author>
	<datestamp>1263649020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I doubt that there are many people out there my age (50s) who have actually managed a WoW raid guild and worked in senior IT management (IT Director), I have
DONT imagine that the skills that one acquires to manage a raid guild (or any other guild type for that matter) are necessarily of any relevance to the sort of teamwork needed in the office. If Google's CEO has actually had the experience of trying to mediate half a dozen petulant teenagers whining about this that and the other in the middle of a guild meeting or a raid, I would be surprised. Its a myth frankly and I certainly wouldnt bump someone up my list of possible hires on the basis that they had been a WoW guild leader - the real world IS NOT the same as any virtual or gaming world - you cannot see, touch , smell or interact with people in the same way - so the types of behavioural patterns that evolve in virtual worlds do NOT prepare people to manage real world human  complex interactions - whereas If on the other hand you had done "real world" team work activities, outward bound courses for example ,  I would bump you up my list. The comparisons dont stack up - who do you want in charge of an engineering team ? someone who has managed groups of real people in testing circumstances or someone who has managed a bunch of pixels controlled by people who have learnt that they can get away with poor behaviour because they cannot be held to account in the same way ?

My reasoning is quite simple and based on close to 4 years experience of playing WoW with  (and I didnt start playiing until I was 45 and part of my reason was to actually explore this myth ) - most people ( note the use of "most" ) in WoW do not develop a balanced sense of responsibility towards others - (yes of course in elite hardworking raid guilds they do - but those environments are just that, elitist and they are non representative and usually arbitratrily disciplinarian and unforgivingly competitive and not real world useful either ) - a very large \% of WoW players simply walk away from their responsbilities - they can behave in ways that are wholly unacceptable in an office environment and get away with it -you cant do that in the real world - you cant walk away in the same way - nor should you. If the teams flat out working to a deadline and everyone is dependent upon each other doing their job you dont want people in that team who imagine they can "log off" simply because the going has got tough.

No - I personally doubt the people who say these things have actually taken the time to fully try out WoW to any great extent - of course there are exceptions and there are people who do learn mediation skills from team activities in these worlds - but give me someone who has captained a football team or a rugby team or set up and managed a club activity - someone who had dealt with "real"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. anyday</htmltext>
<tokenext>I doubt that there are many people out there my age ( 50s ) who have actually managed a WoW raid guild and worked in senior IT management ( IT Director ) , I have DONT imagine that the skills that one acquires to manage a raid guild ( or any other guild type for that matter ) are necessarily of any relevance to the sort of teamwork needed in the office .
If Google 's CEO has actually had the experience of trying to mediate half a dozen petulant teenagers whining about this that and the other in the middle of a guild meeting or a raid , I would be surprised .
Its a myth frankly and I certainly wouldnt bump someone up my list of possible hires on the basis that they had been a WoW guild leader - the real world IS NOT the same as any virtual or gaming world - you can not see , touch , smell or interact with people in the same way - so the types of behavioural patterns that evolve in virtual worlds do NOT prepare people to manage real world human complex interactions - whereas If on the other hand you had done " real world " team work activities , outward bound courses for example , I would bump you up my list .
The comparisons dont stack up - who do you want in charge of an engineering team ?
someone who has managed groups of real people in testing circumstances or someone who has managed a bunch of pixels controlled by people who have learnt that they can get away with poor behaviour because they can not be held to account in the same way ?
My reasoning is quite simple and based on close to 4 years experience of playing WoW with ( and I didnt start playiing until I was 45 and part of my reason was to actually explore this myth ) - most people ( note the use of " most " ) in WoW do not develop a balanced sense of responsibility towards others - ( yes of course in elite hardworking raid guilds they do - but those environments are just that , elitist and they are non representative and usually arbitratrily disciplinarian and unforgivingly competitive and not real world useful either ) - a very large \ % of WoW players simply walk away from their responsbilities - they can behave in ways that are wholly unacceptable in an office environment and get away with it -you cant do that in the real world - you cant walk away in the same way - nor should you .
If the teams flat out working to a deadline and everyone is dependent upon each other doing their job you dont want people in that team who imagine they can " log off " simply because the going has got tough .
No - I personally doubt the people who say these things have actually taken the time to fully try out WoW to any great extent - of course there are exceptions and there are people who do learn mediation skills from team activities in these worlds - but give me someone who has captained a football team or a rugby team or set up and managed a club activity - someone who had dealt with " real " .. anyday</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I doubt that there are many people out there my age (50s) who have actually managed a WoW raid guild and worked in senior IT management (IT Director), I have
DONT imagine that the skills that one acquires to manage a raid guild (or any other guild type for that matter) are necessarily of any relevance to the sort of teamwork needed in the office.
If Google's CEO has actually had the experience of trying to mediate half a dozen petulant teenagers whining about this that and the other in the middle of a guild meeting or a raid, I would be surprised.
Its a myth frankly and I certainly wouldnt bump someone up my list of possible hires on the basis that they had been a WoW guild leader - the real world IS NOT the same as any virtual or gaming world - you cannot see, touch , smell or interact with people in the same way - so the types of behavioural patterns that evolve in virtual worlds do NOT prepare people to manage real world human  complex interactions - whereas If on the other hand you had done "real world" team work activities, outward bound courses for example ,  I would bump you up my list.
The comparisons dont stack up - who do you want in charge of an engineering team ?
someone who has managed groups of real people in testing circumstances or someone who has managed a bunch of pixels controlled by people who have learnt that they can get away with poor behaviour because they cannot be held to account in the same way ?
My reasoning is quite simple and based on close to 4 years experience of playing WoW with  (and I didnt start playiing until I was 45 and part of my reason was to actually explore this myth ) - most people ( note the use of "most" ) in WoW do not develop a balanced sense of responsibility towards others - (yes of course in elite hardworking raid guilds they do - but those environments are just that, elitist and they are non representative and usually arbitratrily disciplinarian and unforgivingly competitive and not real world useful either ) - a very large \% of WoW players simply walk away from their responsbilities - they can behave in ways that are wholly unacceptable in an office environment and get away with it -you cant do that in the real world - you cant walk away in the same way - nor should you.
If the teams flat out working to a deadline and everyone is dependent upon each other doing their job you dont want people in that team who imagine they can "log off" simply because the going has got tough.
No - I personally doubt the people who say these things have actually taken the time to fully try out WoW to any great extent - of course there are exceptions and there are people who do learn mediation skills from team activities in these worlds - but give me someone who has captained a football team or a rugby team or set up and managed a club activity - someone who had dealt with "real" .. anyday</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30791964</id>
	<title>Re:One big difference</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263670140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, I disagree that success in leading a guild/raid is only about the game.</p><p>I learned more about managing people and group dynamics in a couple years of raiding than in 20 years of working (mostly as a non-leader) and watching the process.</p><p>The learning happens when you take responsibility for leading a group, which means figuring out how to keep everyone happy and moving in the same direction.</p><p>This generally NOT a process that primarily plays out in a particular in-game event like a raid, though you do have to have the patience and situational awareness to keep everything going smoothly. Raid leader IS just a game skill really, along with some basic communication and coordination skills (being willing to know how to do everyone's job and teach it to them). Your forums can be a flaming wreckage of hate and recrimination, but once people show up in-game for an event, things always go amazingly smoothly.</p><p>Guild leadership on the other hand is all about managing the drama that comes between in-game events, as everyone has their own preferences in terms of how serious vs. casual the group should be, how loot should be handled, whether attendance should be required, how people should be recruited, how it's decided who gets to go to each raid, etc.</p><p>Again, from my experience almost no management is required in-game where you might expect. All of the hard problems show up as conflicts between different peoples desires, personalities, psychological issues, etc., and they play out on the guild's forums, email, in-game chat, etc., outside of actual raid events.</p><p>So what game it is, what the game rules are, etc. really has very little impact on things!</p><p>There are SO many opportunities for conflict and disagreement that a gaming guild produces a super-concentrated laboratory for the study of human behavior and interactions. If you study guild management strategies, you'll find miniature versions of every political structure invented by man, and you'll very quickly see all of their good and bad points displayed in a sort of Loony Tunes exaggerated cartoon version of political science.</p><p>As a leader you learn pretty quickly that while you might have signed up for the job with the idea that you'll like being in charge, you actually are the one whose opinion matters the least when it comes to keeping things working smoothly. If you had any illusion that other people think the way you do, or that things you think are completely obvious and straightforward decisions will be agreed to by everyone, those illusions will quickly be shattered.</p><p>I think the vast majority of serious raiding guilds (really any guild that requires the cooperation of a non-trivial group of people towards a common goal) eventually self-destruct as a result of all the internal pressures and related drama. Watching this process, and trying to prevent it, will teach you an incredible amount about how people and groups work.</p><p>For me, these experiences absolutely justified the time I spent playing WoW because of how much I learned about people (and myself).</p><p>G.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , I disagree that success in leading a guild/raid is only about the game.I learned more about managing people and group dynamics in a couple years of raiding than in 20 years of working ( mostly as a non-leader ) and watching the process.The learning happens when you take responsibility for leading a group , which means figuring out how to keep everyone happy and moving in the same direction.This generally NOT a process that primarily plays out in a particular in-game event like a raid , though you do have to have the patience and situational awareness to keep everything going smoothly .
Raid leader IS just a game skill really , along with some basic communication and coordination skills ( being willing to know how to do everyone 's job and teach it to them ) .
Your forums can be a flaming wreckage of hate and recrimination , but once people show up in-game for an event , things always go amazingly smoothly.Guild leadership on the other hand is all about managing the drama that comes between in-game events , as everyone has their own preferences in terms of how serious vs. casual the group should be , how loot should be handled , whether attendance should be required , how people should be recruited , how it 's decided who gets to go to each raid , etc.Again , from my experience almost no management is required in-game where you might expect .
All of the hard problems show up as conflicts between different peoples desires , personalities , psychological issues , etc. , and they play out on the guild 's forums , email , in-game chat , etc. , outside of actual raid events.So what game it is , what the game rules are , etc .
really has very little impact on things ! There are SO many opportunities for conflict and disagreement that a gaming guild produces a super-concentrated laboratory for the study of human behavior and interactions .
If you study guild management strategies , you 'll find miniature versions of every political structure invented by man , and you 'll very quickly see all of their good and bad points displayed in a sort of Loony Tunes exaggerated cartoon version of political science.As a leader you learn pretty quickly that while you might have signed up for the job with the idea that you 'll like being in charge , you actually are the one whose opinion matters the least when it comes to keeping things working smoothly .
If you had any illusion that other people think the way you do , or that things you think are completely obvious and straightforward decisions will be agreed to by everyone , those illusions will quickly be shattered.I think the vast majority of serious raiding guilds ( really any guild that requires the cooperation of a non-trivial group of people towards a common goal ) eventually self-destruct as a result of all the internal pressures and related drama .
Watching this process , and trying to prevent it , will teach you an incredible amount about how people and groups work.For me , these experiences absolutely justified the time I spent playing WoW because of how much I learned about people ( and myself ) .G .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, I disagree that success in leading a guild/raid is only about the game.I learned more about managing people and group dynamics in a couple years of raiding than in 20 years of working (mostly as a non-leader) and watching the process.The learning happens when you take responsibility for leading a group, which means figuring out how to keep everyone happy and moving in the same direction.This generally NOT a process that primarily plays out in a particular in-game event like a raid, though you do have to have the patience and situational awareness to keep everything going smoothly.
Raid leader IS just a game skill really, along with some basic communication and coordination skills (being willing to know how to do everyone's job and teach it to them).
Your forums can be a flaming wreckage of hate and recrimination, but once people show up in-game for an event, things always go amazingly smoothly.Guild leadership on the other hand is all about managing the drama that comes between in-game events, as everyone has their own preferences in terms of how serious vs. casual the group should be, how loot should be handled, whether attendance should be required, how people should be recruited, how it's decided who gets to go to each raid, etc.Again, from my experience almost no management is required in-game where you might expect.
All of the hard problems show up as conflicts between different peoples desires, personalities, psychological issues, etc., and they play out on the guild's forums, email, in-game chat, etc., outside of actual raid events.So what game it is, what the game rules are, etc.
really has very little impact on things!There are SO many opportunities for conflict and disagreement that a gaming guild produces a super-concentrated laboratory for the study of human behavior and interactions.
If you study guild management strategies, you'll find miniature versions of every political structure invented by man, and you'll very quickly see all of their good and bad points displayed in a sort of Loony Tunes exaggerated cartoon version of political science.As a leader you learn pretty quickly that while you might have signed up for the job with the idea that you'll like being in charge, you actually are the one whose opinion matters the least when it comes to keeping things working smoothly.
If you had any illusion that other people think the way you do, or that things you think are completely obvious and straightforward decisions will be agreed to by everyone, those illusions will quickly be shattered.I think the vast majority of serious raiding guilds (really any guild that requires the cooperation of a non-trivial group of people towards a common goal) eventually self-destruct as a result of all the internal pressures and related drama.
Watching this process, and trying to prevent it, will teach you an incredible amount about how people and groups work.For me, these experiences absolutely justified the time I spent playing WoW because of how much I learned about people (and myself).G.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30791446</id>
	<title>They really do teach a lot.</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1263666720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you will find people who would slack the hell out in real life doing unbelievable amounts of administrative work for their gaming guild in online games. they do the stuff they wouldnt do if you paid them a fortune.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you will find people who would slack the hell out in real life doing unbelievable amounts of administrative work for their gaming guild in online games .
they do the stuff they wouldnt do if you paid them a fortune .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you will find people who would slack the hell out in real life doing unbelievable amounts of administrative work for their gaming guild in online games.
they do the stuff they wouldnt do if you paid them a fortune.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789850</id>
	<title>No distinction between work and play.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263652080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>As virtual environments evolve and the workplace is eventually made completely virtual to eliminate transportation, the distinction between work and play will fade. People will be enjoying their jobs more, and they will be rewarded more for their efforts, as new technology (for example, the ability to manufacture super computers or robots for pennies) will provide greater wealth for everyone in society.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As virtual environments evolve and the workplace is eventually made completely virtual to eliminate transportation , the distinction between work and play will fade .
People will be enjoying their jobs more , and they will be rewarded more for their efforts , as new technology ( for example , the ability to manufacture super computers or robots for pennies ) will provide greater wealth for everyone in society .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As virtual environments evolve and the workplace is eventually made completely virtual to eliminate transportation, the distinction between work and play will fade.
People will be enjoying their jobs more, and they will be rewarded more for their efforts, as new technology (for example, the ability to manufacture super computers or robots for pennies) will provide greater wealth for everyone in society.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789686</id>
	<title>Re:This is the same as the pro-fat revolution</title>
	<author>deniable</author>
	<datestamp>1263649740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some of that started when they got segment-by-segment ratings and found that fat sells. That's why they have at least one weight-loss story a week and often more. That and they've got 'stories' provided by people who also happen to advertise on the network.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of that started when they got segment-by-segment ratings and found that fat sells .
That 's why they have at least one weight-loss story a week and often more .
That and they 've got 'stories ' provided by people who also happen to advertise on the network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of that started when they got segment-by-segment ratings and found that fat sells.
That's why they have at least one weight-loss story a week and often more.
That and they've got 'stories' provided by people who also happen to advertise on the network.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789360</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30792194</id>
	<title>Not quite yet</title>
	<author>Ed Peepers</author>
	<datestamp>1263672240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been researching leadership and teams in MMOs for the past few years as part of my grad program in organizational psychology.  In particular, I've studied players of EVE Online and looked at leadership behavior among guild/corp leaders as well as their followers.  I'm still crunching the latest longitudinal data, but the early results point to average levels of transactional leadership behavior (a more managerial style; exchange based; you do X, I'll reward/punish you with Y) but strikingly low frequency of transformational leadership behavior (charismatic, visionary, empowering leadership; generally considered the "best" style of leadership).</p><p>Jargon aside, EVE players do not appear to be learning how to be better leaders by playing EVE Online.  MMOs might help build follower skills (complete this quest/work assignment and I'll give you a gold piece/paycheck!) and make you a better wage slave, but I haven't seen empirical evidence that MMOs are teaching anyone how to be a leader in the workplace, as claimed by TFA.  There are anecdotal stories from a few guild leaders, sure, but for now only guild leaders of large guilds should even consider putting MMO experience on their resume.</p><p>Finally, MMOs aren't going to teach<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. readers about technology in the workplace.  I am sorry if I crush anyone's dreams.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been researching leadership and teams in MMOs for the past few years as part of my grad program in organizational psychology .
In particular , I 've studied players of EVE Online and looked at leadership behavior among guild/corp leaders as well as their followers .
I 'm still crunching the latest longitudinal data , but the early results point to average levels of transactional leadership behavior ( a more managerial style ; exchange based ; you do X , I 'll reward/punish you with Y ) but strikingly low frequency of transformational leadership behavior ( charismatic , visionary , empowering leadership ; generally considered the " best " style of leadership ) .Jargon aside , EVE players do not appear to be learning how to be better leaders by playing EVE Online .
MMOs might help build follower skills ( complete this quest/work assignment and I 'll give you a gold piece/paycheck !
) and make you a better wage slave , but I have n't seen empirical evidence that MMOs are teaching anyone how to be a leader in the workplace , as claimed by TFA .
There are anecdotal stories from a few guild leaders , sure , but for now only guild leaders of large guilds should even consider putting MMO experience on their resume.Finally , MMOs are n't going to teach / .
readers about technology in the workplace .
I am sorry if I crush anyone 's dreams .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been researching leadership and teams in MMOs for the past few years as part of my grad program in organizational psychology.
In particular, I've studied players of EVE Online and looked at leadership behavior among guild/corp leaders as well as their followers.
I'm still crunching the latest longitudinal data, but the early results point to average levels of transactional leadership behavior (a more managerial style; exchange based; you do X, I'll reward/punish you with Y) but strikingly low frequency of transformational leadership behavior (charismatic, visionary, empowering leadership; generally considered the "best" style of leadership).Jargon aside, EVE players do not appear to be learning how to be better leaders by playing EVE Online.
MMOs might help build follower skills (complete this quest/work assignment and I'll give you a gold piece/paycheck!
) and make you a better wage slave, but I haven't seen empirical evidence that MMOs are teaching anyone how to be a leader in the workplace, as claimed by TFA.
There are anecdotal stories from a few guild leaders, sure, but for now only guild leaders of large guilds should even consider putting MMO experience on their resume.Finally, MMOs aren't going to teach /.
readers about technology in the workplace.
I am sorry if I crush anyone's dreams.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30799234</id>
	<title>Re:Dear God no.</title>
	<author>docwatson223</author>
	<datestamp>1263751320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Obviously, you don't Raid.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Obviously , you do n't Raid .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obviously, you don't Raid.
;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789358</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789364</id>
	<title>There is a huge difference.</title>
	<author>jellomizer</author>
	<datestamp>1263645840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First a lot of these skills can be gathered by more productive methods.</p><p>Things like. Joining a school club, peing part of a play, even joinging a sports team, or helping with public service.</p><p>Secondly with gaming if it is not fun you don't play the game.  Unlike work sure you may love your job but there are some days/weeks that are just so boring that if it was a game you would say screw this game it is way to dull. And get a more interesting one.  World of Warcraft makes sure you rewards and the amount of what is going is own is fast.  Real life there could be weeks/months/years/decades before your work pays off.</p><p>Hiring someone who puts their video game skills on their resume would make me very iffy about hiring him.  Once he finds that real work isn't as fun or ballanced or fair as it is in a video game he would most likely quit. Or just struggle in work as real work often require a UI that is a bit more complex then games are.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First a lot of these skills can be gathered by more productive methods.Things like .
Joining a school club , peing part of a play , even joinging a sports team , or helping with public service.Secondly with gaming if it is not fun you do n't play the game .
Unlike work sure you may love your job but there are some days/weeks that are just so boring that if it was a game you would say screw this game it is way to dull .
And get a more interesting one .
World of Warcraft makes sure you rewards and the amount of what is going is own is fast .
Real life there could be weeks/months/years/decades before your work pays off.Hiring someone who puts their video game skills on their resume would make me very iffy about hiring him .
Once he finds that real work is n't as fun or ballanced or fair as it is in a video game he would most likely quit .
Or just struggle in work as real work often require a UI that is a bit more complex then games are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First a lot of these skills can be gathered by more productive methods.Things like.
Joining a school club, peing part of a play, even joinging a sports team, or helping with public service.Secondly with gaming if it is not fun you don't play the game.
Unlike work sure you may love your job but there are some days/weeks that are just so boring that if it was a game you would say screw this game it is way to dull.
And get a more interesting one.
World of Warcraft makes sure you rewards and the amount of what is going is own is fast.
Real life there could be weeks/months/years/decades before your work pays off.Hiring someone who puts their video game skills on their resume would make me very iffy about hiring him.
Once he finds that real work isn't as fun or ballanced or fair as it is in a video game he would most likely quit.
Or just struggle in work as real work often require a UI that is a bit more complex then games are.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789442</id>
	<title>JinzouTamashii</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263646980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is so true. I ended up putting down my professional experience on my resume, but it was my toying with WoW that really honed the ideas on a lot of my current projects!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is so true .
I ended up putting down my professional experience on my resume , but it was my toying with WoW that really honed the ideas on a lot of my current projects !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is so true.
I ended up putting down my professional experience on my resume, but it was my toying with WoW that really honed the ideas on a lot of my current projects!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789778</id>
	<title>Geek Sociologists Replacing Jock Sociologists</title>
	<author>RobotRunAmok</author>
	<datestamp>1263651060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The same was said about sports.  "Leadership... teamwork... initiative... coordination... motivation... blah... blah... etc."  And they were right.  Up to a point.  What I'd like to see commissioned is a study comparing the two:  who makes for a better Future Corporate Asshole, the quarterback of the high school football team, or the high school WoW guild leader?</p><p>The element of a virtual world that I'd like to see in my RL workspace is a large rail gun out of Eve Online that I could use to convince clients to pay on time...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The same was said about sports .
" Leadership... teamwork... initiative... coordination... motivation... blah... blah... etc .
" And they were right .
Up to a point .
What I 'd like to see commissioned is a study comparing the two : who makes for a better Future Corporate Asshole , the quarterback of the high school football team , or the high school WoW guild leader ? The element of a virtual world that I 'd like to see in my RL workspace is a large rail gun out of Eve Online that I could use to convince clients to pay on time.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The same was said about sports.
"Leadership... teamwork... initiative... coordination... motivation... blah... blah... etc.
"  And they were right.
Up to a point.
What I'd like to see commissioned is a study comparing the two:  who makes for a better Future Corporate Asshole, the quarterback of the high school football team, or the high school WoW guild leader?The element of a virtual world that I'd like to see in my RL workspace is a large rail gun out of Eve Online that I could use to convince clients to pay on time...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789358</id>
	<title>Dear God no.</title>
	<author>Senes</author>
	<datestamp>1263645780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't want work to be this endless soul crushing grind. I don't want my own experience to be considered worthless because the guy next door has the 4 str 4 stam belt. I don't want to be packed into a department of soulless adolescents who can't even talk normally. I don't want to push 90 hour weeks to hit my next milestone. I don't want my supervisor shrieking at me to get on vent for 21st century cutting edge micromanagement.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't want work to be this endless soul crushing grind .
I do n't want my own experience to be considered worthless because the guy next door has the 4 str 4 stam belt .
I do n't want to be packed into a department of soulless adolescents who ca n't even talk normally .
I do n't want to push 90 hour weeks to hit my next milestone .
I do n't want my supervisor shrieking at me to get on vent for 21st century cutting edge micromanagement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't want work to be this endless soul crushing grind.
I don't want my own experience to be considered worthless because the guy next door has the 4 str 4 stam belt.
I don't want to be packed into a department of soulless adolescents who can't even talk normally.
I don't want to push 90 hour weeks to hit my next milestone.
I don't want my supervisor shrieking at me to get on vent for 21st century cutting edge micromanagement.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30793338</id>
	<title>Re:Virtual worlds, yes. Games, not so much.</title>
	<author>Ilkhan28</author>
	<datestamp>1263638520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the end it would have to come down to the company as to what criteria are desirable on a CV, such as expert raid leadership or guild crafting organization along with the other usual points that do relate to the position being offered. I agree that games in the fantasy field like "World of Warcraft" and "Age of Conan" might be too out there in terms relating to real world business activities and concerns. The concepts like leadership and organization though could apply, and these games do give someone a chance to practice these concepts, but those need then to be applied to real world situations, changes and society. Perhaps a game that mimics real world such as Second Life would be a better venue. All companies will be different, some may laugh at the idea, and refuse to implement it, while others may fully embrace it. As long as it does not harm productivity, then maybe it can work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the end it would have to come down to the company as to what criteria are desirable on a CV , such as expert raid leadership or guild crafting organization along with the other usual points that do relate to the position being offered .
I agree that games in the fantasy field like " World of Warcraft " and " Age of Conan " might be too out there in terms relating to real world business activities and concerns .
The concepts like leadership and organization though could apply , and these games do give someone a chance to practice these concepts , but those need then to be applied to real world situations , changes and society .
Perhaps a game that mimics real world such as Second Life would be a better venue .
All companies will be different , some may laugh at the idea , and refuse to implement it , while others may fully embrace it .
As long as it does not harm productivity , then maybe it can work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the end it would have to come down to the company as to what criteria are desirable on a CV, such as expert raid leadership or guild crafting organization along with the other usual points that do relate to the position being offered.
I agree that games in the fantasy field like "World of Warcraft" and "Age of Conan" might be too out there in terms relating to real world business activities and concerns.
The concepts like leadership and organization though could apply, and these games do give someone a chance to practice these concepts, but those need then to be applied to real world situations, changes and society.
Perhaps a game that mimics real world such as Second Life would be a better venue.
All companies will be different, some may laugh at the idea, and refuse to implement it, while others may fully embrace it.
As long as it does not harm productivity, then maybe it can work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789434</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30790150</id>
	<title>Re:One big difference</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263655620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Follow the strategy and everything will come together, there are few surprises and the AI has no emotion, no ego. No raid boss will deny you victory because you stepped on its toes.</p> </div><p>What. I'm a bit confused at your metaphor here.</p><p>From what I can tell, your basic metaphor is that "killing the raid boss" is equivalent to "completing the project". "Following the strat" would be equivalent to "following the manual." In both times, you reach the result of "raid boss killed!" or "Project complete!"</p><p>Your metaphor seems to be stating that stepping on the feet of the project(?) would cause it to suddenly not work. I really doubt that after creating, say a car, insulting its mother would cause it to fail on you. Just as insulting a raid boss's mother won't cause it to suddenly power up to 9001.</p><p>Perhaps you mean instead of "Completing the project," you mean "Completing the project and getting the satisfaction of the boss." For this, yeah. If you called his daughter a whore it'll end up badly and your project may fail. But you've added a modifier here. A similar modifier in WoW could be "Kill the raid boss and get loot X." In either situation, an outside modifier changes the requirements for victory. However, I suppose the warcraft example is something uncontrollable. But...the same can apply to real life as well if the boss comes in with a foul mood, looks at your completed project, calls it total shit and throws a chair at it.</p><p>Also, I argue against "there are few surprises" and "no emotion, no ego" for WoW. There are surprises in that one person's connection may be bad. Maybe one player has a grudge against another and purposely tries to kill them wiping the raid. Maybe once the loot does drop, person X starts whining and bitching that person Y beat him on it, declaring that since he's worked so hard on the project (killing the boss) he should deserve a larger share of the reward.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Being a raid leader does NOT make you a leader, it just gives you some play experience at doing it. If you use it at just a light intro to the real thing, then you will do fine. But if you think it prepares you for the real thing or even is the same as the real thing, then you will fail horribly.</p></div><p>I take issue with this. Do people somehow become mere caricatures once they enter the virtual world? Do they become cartoonish simpletons giving people working with them nothing but a ghoulish mirror of true humanity?</p><p>False. The building block analogy is fallacious precisely because of the point laid out above. A more accurate example may be if the architect had spent years messing around with architectural programs but hasn't actually built a real building. His blueprints are up to par, he's great at calculating the stresses and where to strengthen the walls, how to place the bars, where to rivet, so on. He may not have experience in reality, but his ability in the abstract is near equivalent.</p><p>I admit. Some skills gained in one arena do not necessarily translate to another. People playing online games will have difficulty hiding their emotions in reality, being used to no one seeing their face. They may be more slovenly or visibly odd since they haven't had to combine body language with their managerial skills. But that's something they'll learn in the future.</p><p>Perhaps if a world of warcraft manager managed strictly through cyberspace rather than at the office, perhaps with a "body on the ground" to be his eyes, ears, and face his or her managerial abilities would shine.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Follow the strategy and everything will come together , there are few surprises and the AI has no emotion , no ego .
No raid boss will deny you victory because you stepped on its toes .
What. I 'm a bit confused at your metaphor here.From what I can tell , your basic metaphor is that " killing the raid boss " is equivalent to " completing the project " .
" Following the strat " would be equivalent to " following the manual .
" In both times , you reach the result of " raid boss killed !
" or " Project complete !
" Your metaphor seems to be stating that stepping on the feet of the project ( ?
) would cause it to suddenly not work .
I really doubt that after creating , say a car , insulting its mother would cause it to fail on you .
Just as insulting a raid boss 's mother wo n't cause it to suddenly power up to 9001.Perhaps you mean instead of " Completing the project , " you mean " Completing the project and getting the satisfaction of the boss .
" For this , yeah .
If you called his daughter a whore it 'll end up badly and your project may fail .
But you 've added a modifier here .
A similar modifier in WoW could be " Kill the raid boss and get loot X .
" In either situation , an outside modifier changes the requirements for victory .
However , I suppose the warcraft example is something uncontrollable .
But...the same can apply to real life as well if the boss comes in with a foul mood , looks at your completed project , calls it total shit and throws a chair at it.Also , I argue against " there are few surprises " and " no emotion , no ego " for WoW .
There are surprises in that one person 's connection may be bad .
Maybe one player has a grudge against another and purposely tries to kill them wiping the raid .
Maybe once the loot does drop , person X starts whining and bitching that person Y beat him on it , declaring that since he 's worked so hard on the project ( killing the boss ) he should deserve a larger share of the reward.Being a raid leader does NOT make you a leader , it just gives you some play experience at doing it .
If you use it at just a light intro to the real thing , then you will do fine .
But if you think it prepares you for the real thing or even is the same as the real thing , then you will fail horribly.I take issue with this .
Do people somehow become mere caricatures once they enter the virtual world ?
Do they become cartoonish simpletons giving people working with them nothing but a ghoulish mirror of true humanity ? False .
The building block analogy is fallacious precisely because of the point laid out above .
A more accurate example may be if the architect had spent years messing around with architectural programs but has n't actually built a real building .
His blueprints are up to par , he 's great at calculating the stresses and where to strengthen the walls , how to place the bars , where to rivet , so on .
He may not have experience in reality , but his ability in the abstract is near equivalent.I admit .
Some skills gained in one arena do not necessarily translate to another .
People playing online games will have difficulty hiding their emotions in reality , being used to no one seeing their face .
They may be more slovenly or visibly odd since they have n't had to combine body language with their managerial skills .
But that 's something they 'll learn in the future.Perhaps if a world of warcraft manager managed strictly through cyberspace rather than at the office , perhaps with a " body on the ground " to be his eyes , ears , and face his or her managerial abilities would shine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Follow the strategy and everything will come together, there are few surprises and the AI has no emotion, no ego.
No raid boss will deny you victory because you stepped on its toes.
What. I'm a bit confused at your metaphor here.From what I can tell, your basic metaphor is that "killing the raid boss" is equivalent to "completing the project".
"Following the strat" would be equivalent to "following the manual.
" In both times, you reach the result of "raid boss killed!
" or "Project complete!
"Your metaphor seems to be stating that stepping on the feet of the project(?
) would cause it to suddenly not work.
I really doubt that after creating, say a car, insulting its mother would cause it to fail on you.
Just as insulting a raid boss's mother won't cause it to suddenly power up to 9001.Perhaps you mean instead of "Completing the project," you mean "Completing the project and getting the satisfaction of the boss.
" For this, yeah.
If you called his daughter a whore it'll end up badly and your project may fail.
But you've added a modifier here.
A similar modifier in WoW could be "Kill the raid boss and get loot X.
" In either situation, an outside modifier changes the requirements for victory.
However, I suppose the warcraft example is something uncontrollable.
But...the same can apply to real life as well if the boss comes in with a foul mood, looks at your completed project, calls it total shit and throws a chair at it.Also, I argue against "there are few surprises" and "no emotion, no ego" for WoW.
There are surprises in that one person's connection may be bad.
Maybe one player has a grudge against another and purposely tries to kill them wiping the raid.
Maybe once the loot does drop, person X starts whining and bitching that person Y beat him on it, declaring that since he's worked so hard on the project (killing the boss) he should deserve a larger share of the reward.Being a raid leader does NOT make you a leader, it just gives you some play experience at doing it.
If you use it at just a light intro to the real thing, then you will do fine.
But if you think it prepares you for the real thing or even is the same as the real thing, then you will fail horribly.I take issue with this.
Do people somehow become mere caricatures once they enter the virtual world?
Do they become cartoonish simpletons giving people working with them nothing but a ghoulish mirror of true humanity?False.
The building block analogy is fallacious precisely because of the point laid out above.
A more accurate example may be if the architect had spent years messing around with architectural programs but hasn't actually built a real building.
His blueprints are up to par, he's great at calculating the stresses and where to strengthen the walls, how to place the bars, where to rivet, so on.
He may not have experience in reality, but his ability in the abstract is near equivalent.I admit.
Some skills gained in one arena do not necessarily translate to another.
People playing online games will have difficulty hiding their emotions in reality, being used to no one seeing their face.
They may be more slovenly or visibly odd since they haven't had to combine body language with their managerial skills.
But that's something they'll learn in the future.Perhaps if a world of warcraft manager managed strictly through cyberspace rather than at the office, perhaps with a "body on the ground" to be his eyes, ears, and face his or her managerial abilities would shine.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789596</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789640</id>
	<title>Re:There is a huge difference.</title>
	<author>djsmiley</author>
	<datestamp>1263649260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not to mention you can't just<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/kick or<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/ignore generally in work situations.</p><p>I was trying to figure out in my head just now why this never works and suddenly it hit me. If you work involved this type of thing, and you do this type of thing for fun, at home, most employeers eventually realise they can say</p><p>"If you do this for fun, why are we paying you so much?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to mention you ca n't just /kick or /ignore generally in work situations.I was trying to figure out in my head just now why this never works and suddenly it hit me .
If you work involved this type of thing , and you do this type of thing for fun , at home , most employeers eventually realise they can say " If you do this for fun , why are we paying you so much ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to mention you can't just /kick or /ignore generally in work situations.I was trying to figure out in my head just now why this never works and suddenly it hit me.
If you work involved this type of thing, and you do this type of thing for fun, at home, most employeers eventually realise they can say"If you do this for fun, why are we paying you so much?
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789364</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789342</id>
	<title>first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263645300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>a winrar is u!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>a winrar is u !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a winrar is u!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789824</id>
	<title>Re:Bad Advice</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263651660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=15577.0" title="f13.net">Recruiter told not to hire WOW players</a> [f13.net]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Recruiter told not to hire WOW players [ f13.net ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Recruiter told not to hire WOW players [f13.net]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789458</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789360</id>
	<title>This is the same as the pro-fat revolution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263645780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I cant speak for other countries, but there is a lot of crap on our cheesy news segments here in Australia (by that I mean the half hour after the actual 'whats going on in the world' news) about how women are 'bringing back the curves' and fighting the 'negative body image purported by the modern fashion industry' and then goes on to show obese women pretending to be models. It doesnt work because these women are unhealthy.</p><p>Whilst gaming being beneficial has more of a leg to stand on then being fat, there is no doubt that its a recreational activity.</p><p>gotta stop accepting things just because its too hard to make ween everyone off it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I cant speak for other countries , but there is a lot of crap on our cheesy news segments here in Australia ( by that I mean the half hour after the actual 'whats going on in the world ' news ) about how women are 'bringing back the curves ' and fighting the 'negative body image purported by the modern fashion industry ' and then goes on to show obese women pretending to be models .
It doesnt work because these women are unhealthy.Whilst gaming being beneficial has more of a leg to stand on then being fat , there is no doubt that its a recreational activity.got ta stop accepting things just because its too hard to make ween everyone off it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I cant speak for other countries, but there is a lot of crap on our cheesy news segments here in Australia (by that I mean the half hour after the actual 'whats going on in the world' news) about how women are 'bringing back the curves' and fighting the 'negative body image purported by the modern fashion industry' and then goes on to show obese women pretending to be models.
It doesnt work because these women are unhealthy.Whilst gaming being beneficial has more of a leg to stand on then being fat, there is no doubt that its a recreational activity.gotta stop accepting things just because its too hard to make ween everyone off it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789350</id>
	<title>Should Gaming Worlds Join the Workplace?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263645540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Leadership skills?  Planning?  Cooperation?  Have them play D&amp;D.  (That's partly a serious comment, actually.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Leadership skills ?
Planning ? Cooperation ?
Have them play D&amp;D .
( That 's partly a serious comment , actually .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Leadership skills?
Planning?  Cooperation?
Have them play D&amp;D.
(That's partly a serious comment, actually.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789458</id>
	<title>Bad Advice</title>
	<author>i\_ate\_god</author>
	<datestamp>1263647220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't go putting your MMORPG experience on your resume. You will not get hired for one simple fact, people have figured out by now that WoW can cause addiction amongst its players. They are not going to hire you if they think all you're going to do at work is play your MMO.</p><p>Secondly, while MMO's can help someone gain leadership and organizational skills (I'd imagine EVE could even teach you some basic economical/business skills), they don't help with social skills. Having an avatar interact with other avatars is psychologically quite different from interacting with someone in front of you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't go putting your MMORPG experience on your resume .
You will not get hired for one simple fact , people have figured out by now that WoW can cause addiction amongst its players .
They are not going to hire you if they think all you 're going to do at work is play your MMO.Secondly , while MMO 's can help someone gain leadership and organizational skills ( I 'd imagine EVE could even teach you some basic economical/business skills ) , they do n't help with social skills .
Having an avatar interact with other avatars is psychologically quite different from interacting with someone in front of you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't go putting your MMORPG experience on your resume.
You will not get hired for one simple fact, people have figured out by now that WoW can cause addiction amongst its players.
They are not going to hire you if they think all you're going to do at work is play your MMO.Secondly, while MMO's can help someone gain leadership and organizational skills (I'd imagine EVE could even teach you some basic economical/business skills), they don't help with social skills.
Having an avatar interact with other avatars is psychologically quite different from interacting with someone in front of you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30792546</id>
	<title>Re:Geek Sociologists Replacing Jock Sociologists</title>
	<author>sick197666</author>
	<datestamp>1263674760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree. I think they both will be beneficial. That, and who is to say that virtual/gaming athletes (ie - the ones that get paid for it) aren't as dedicated as "real" athletes? Or share the same qualities?

I think sports helped me a great deal personally.  Even tho I'm typically a super shy lady, I'm not afraid of raising my voice to get a point across to a whole room of men, much like when I played soccer. I was the stopper, and had to scream down the field to my teammates. Co-ed soccer has taught me how big of a man I can take down using my short stature and low center of gravity. Rugby taught me what to do if they're too big, hehe.

I'm not afraid to be "pushed around" once I enter the male-predominant field because I know if the worst case happens, I can push back. Or out-smart them. Either or.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
I think they both will be beneficial .
That , and who is to say that virtual/gaming athletes ( ie - the ones that get paid for it ) are n't as dedicated as " real " athletes ?
Or share the same qualities ?
I think sports helped me a great deal personally .
Even tho I 'm typically a super shy lady , I 'm not afraid of raising my voice to get a point across to a whole room of men , much like when I played soccer .
I was the stopper , and had to scream down the field to my teammates .
Co-ed soccer has taught me how big of a man I can take down using my short stature and low center of gravity .
Rugby taught me what to do if they 're too big , hehe .
I 'm not afraid to be " pushed around " once I enter the male-predominant field because I know if the worst case happens , I can push back .
Or out-smart them .
Either or .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
I think they both will be beneficial.
That, and who is to say that virtual/gaming athletes (ie - the ones that get paid for it) aren't as dedicated as "real" athletes?
Or share the same qualities?
I think sports helped me a great deal personally.
Even tho I'm typically a super shy lady, I'm not afraid of raising my voice to get a point across to a whole room of men, much like when I played soccer.
I was the stopper, and had to scream down the field to my teammates.
Co-ed soccer has taught me how big of a man I can take down using my short stature and low center of gravity.
Rugby taught me what to do if they're too big, hehe.
I'm not afraid to be "pushed around" once I enter the male-predominant field because I know if the worst case happens, I can push back.
Or out-smart them.
Either or.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789778</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789434</id>
	<title>Virtual worlds, yes.  Games, not so much.</title>
	<author>JaredOfEuropa</author>
	<datestamp>1263646920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>A year or so ago, I helped my client (a large corporation) look into using virtual worlds and MMOs as platforms for learning and collaboration.  I also play MMOs, which helped.  And I am familiar with the notion put forth by this professor; companies like IBM have already done some research into the subject.  Anyway...
<br> <br>
WoW and similar games can indeed hone or help assess leadership skills.... but only with people who already play Wow.  For newbies, the time to learn play the game and train up to a level where there are meaningful leadership and teaming aspects (raids) is largely wasted.  There are already better business simulations out there that are tailored to business situations.  For instance: running a raid organisation is closer to leading a group of volunteers than to managing a corporate team.  Different objectives, different leadership style.  If you are looking for leadership and team working simulations that can be done virtually, I'd look for existing p&amp;p business simulation games and port them to a platform like Second Life.  The big advantage being that such a simulation hardly requires any training to work the simulation itself; after a short newbie obstacle course you can jump straight into the game itself.
<br> <br>
Virtual platforms offer a range of possibilities for new ways of learning, especially experiential learning in areas like HSE, leadership, self assessment and team working, but sadly there still is very little training material in virtual environments out there.  We're proceeding to roll our own.  WoW is far too complex a game and far too removed from business relevant objectives to serve as an effective learning platform.
<br> <br>
Putting WoW skillz on your resume?  Too early, perhaps.  But... if someone is leading a consistently successful raid team, I would readily assume that they have leadership skills worth looking into.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A year or so ago , I helped my client ( a large corporation ) look into using virtual worlds and MMOs as platforms for learning and collaboration .
I also play MMOs , which helped .
And I am familiar with the notion put forth by this professor ; companies like IBM have already done some research into the subject .
Anyway.. . WoW and similar games can indeed hone or help assess leadership skills.... but only with people who already play Wow .
For newbies , the time to learn play the game and train up to a level where there are meaningful leadership and teaming aspects ( raids ) is largely wasted .
There are already better business simulations out there that are tailored to business situations .
For instance : running a raid organisation is closer to leading a group of volunteers than to managing a corporate team .
Different objectives , different leadership style .
If you are looking for leadership and team working simulations that can be done virtually , I 'd look for existing p&amp;p business simulation games and port them to a platform like Second Life .
The big advantage being that such a simulation hardly requires any training to work the simulation itself ; after a short newbie obstacle course you can jump straight into the game itself .
Virtual platforms offer a range of possibilities for new ways of learning , especially experiential learning in areas like HSE , leadership , self assessment and team working , but sadly there still is very little training material in virtual environments out there .
We 're proceeding to roll our own .
WoW is far too complex a game and far too removed from business relevant objectives to serve as an effective learning platform .
Putting WoW skillz on your resume ?
Too early , perhaps .
But... if someone is leading a consistently successful raid team , I would readily assume that they have leadership skills worth looking into .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A year or so ago, I helped my client (a large corporation) look into using virtual worlds and MMOs as platforms for learning and collaboration.
I also play MMOs, which helped.
And I am familiar with the notion put forth by this professor; companies like IBM have already done some research into the subject.
Anyway...
 
WoW and similar games can indeed hone or help assess leadership skills.... but only with people who already play Wow.
For newbies, the time to learn play the game and train up to a level where there are meaningful leadership and teaming aspects (raids) is largely wasted.
There are already better business simulations out there that are tailored to business situations.
For instance: running a raid organisation is closer to leading a group of volunteers than to managing a corporate team.
Different objectives, different leadership style.
If you are looking for leadership and team working simulations that can be done virtually, I'd look for existing p&amp;p business simulation games and port them to a platform like Second Life.
The big advantage being that such a simulation hardly requires any training to work the simulation itself; after a short newbie obstacle course you can jump straight into the game itself.
Virtual platforms offer a range of possibilities for new ways of learning, especially experiential learning in areas like HSE, leadership, self assessment and team working, but sadly there still is very little training material in virtual environments out there.
We're proceeding to roll our own.
WoW is far too complex a game and far too removed from business relevant objectives to serve as an effective learning platform.
Putting WoW skillz on your resume?
Too early, perhaps.
But... if someone is leading a consistently successful raid team, I would readily assume that they have leadership skills worth looking into.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30791754</id>
	<title>Re:Geek Sociologists Replacing Jock Sociologists</title>
	<author>Kral\_Blbec</author>
	<datestamp>1263668820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I remember a back when I was looking into the Marines I talked a lot to their officer recruiters. I can't remember exactly how it was said but once they told me something kind of interesting. The gist of it was that they would rather sign on a kid who spent his youth playing computer games than the football captain, because physical strength atrophies so the captain is probably fat by now already and they can get you into shape anyway. Gaming, on the other hand, was a far better training for tactical planning, spatial awareness, cooperation, and equipment use. Driving a tank is much more like playing a video game than catching a ball.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember a back when I was looking into the Marines I talked a lot to their officer recruiters .
I ca n't remember exactly how it was said but once they told me something kind of interesting .
The gist of it was that they would rather sign on a kid who spent his youth playing computer games than the football captain , because physical strength atrophies so the captain is probably fat by now already and they can get you into shape anyway .
Gaming , on the other hand , was a far better training for tactical planning , spatial awareness , cooperation , and equipment use .
Driving a tank is much more like playing a video game than catching a ball .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember a back when I was looking into the Marines I talked a lot to their officer recruiters.
I can't remember exactly how it was said but once they told me something kind of interesting.
The gist of it was that they would rather sign on a kid who spent his youth playing computer games than the football captain, because physical strength atrophies so the captain is probably fat by now already and they can get you into shape anyway.
Gaming, on the other hand, was a far better training for tactical planning, spatial awareness, cooperation, and equipment use.
Driving a tank is much more like playing a video game than catching a ball.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789778</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_16_075240.30789596</id>
	<title>One big difference</title>
	<author>SmallFurryCreature</author>
	<datestamp>1263648840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In a MMORPG the rules are clear and you know what you can and cannot do. Follow the strategy and everything will come together, there are few surprises and the AI has no emotion, no ego. No raid boss will deny you victory because you stepped on its toes.
</p><p>In the real world, that is not the case, you might have followed the right guide to grind your career to the next level and still never ping because the AI has decided that they shall promote the girl because she is prettier or the guy because he is not a girl. Or the minority because there ain't enough of them or the majority because everyone knows minorities can't cut it.
</p><p>What I have noted is that younger people are very good at being assertive but not very good at being meek. They know how to succeed but not how to fail. And yet, when they finish school where many seem to believe they employ the teachers they are suddenly put in an environment where they are not the top, worse, the top positions are already taken and you will have to compete for them with people who got more experience.
</p><p>If I would be hiring a new person fresh from school, then I would not be impressed with your raid leading capabilty. Now if you put on your CV that you are a good raid follower, that would matter a whole lot more. Anyone can shout orders, following them is a lot harder. Who needs the other more? Generals vs Soldiers? A simple head count will give you the answer. A new employer will not need another manager, another boss especially one who has not yet proven himself, but they will need people who can do the stuff that is required. And doing that stuff is often boring and unrewarding with you requiring years of grinding away at menial tasks to get anywhere, and there is no progress bar to follow.
</p><p>Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate that gaming experience can enhance abilities in the real world. If you can organize your guilds supply chain (who crafts what) then you might be a good organizer in the real world. But say that you are REALLY good in arranging that harvested materials make their way to the crafters, does that make you a good procurer in the real world? No...
</p><p>Why? Because the game world is consistent, eternally the same. If you want more light hides, you just go out an get them and you can just grind them in a respawn rich area. There are no government quatas, no competition, no disease or enviromental factors. It is, simple. The real world is everything but simple. Some of you might mentions Star Wars Galaxies resource system which changed quality. True, but you could freely travel and harvest all over the universe. As shown by a recent story, in the real world a rare mineral simply might no longer become available in the real world (China restricting exports or rare earth minerals).
</p><p>Gaming experience is no more the playing experience. Sure, if you played with blocks as a small child, you MIGHT one day become an architect BUT if you are going for your first job interview as an architect I wouldn't list "block building" on my CV. You might mention it during your background story, "why do you want to be an architect" "Well I always liked the idea of building something, even as a small child when I made bridges with blocks". But it is PLAYING experience, not real world.
</p><p>Being a raid leader does NOT make you a leader, it just gives you some play experience at doing it. If you use it at just a light intro to the real thing, then you will do fine. But if you think it prepares you for the real thing or even is the same as the real thing, then you will fail horribly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In a MMORPG the rules are clear and you know what you can and can not do .
Follow the strategy and everything will come together , there are few surprises and the AI has no emotion , no ego .
No raid boss will deny you victory because you stepped on its toes .
In the real world , that is not the case , you might have followed the right guide to grind your career to the next level and still never ping because the AI has decided that they shall promote the girl because she is prettier or the guy because he is not a girl .
Or the minority because there ai n't enough of them or the majority because everyone knows minorities ca n't cut it .
What I have noted is that younger people are very good at being assertive but not very good at being meek .
They know how to succeed but not how to fail .
And yet , when they finish school where many seem to believe they employ the teachers they are suddenly put in an environment where they are not the top , worse , the top positions are already taken and you will have to compete for them with people who got more experience .
If I would be hiring a new person fresh from school , then I would not be impressed with your raid leading capabilty .
Now if you put on your CV that you are a good raid follower , that would matter a whole lot more .
Anyone can shout orders , following them is a lot harder .
Who needs the other more ?
Generals vs Soldiers ?
A simple head count will give you the answer .
A new employer will not need another manager , another boss especially one who has not yet proven himself , but they will need people who can do the stuff that is required .
And doing that stuff is often boring and unrewarding with you requiring years of grinding away at menial tasks to get anywhere , and there is no progress bar to follow .
Do n't get me wrong , I do appreciate that gaming experience can enhance abilities in the real world .
If you can organize your guilds supply chain ( who crafts what ) then you might be a good organizer in the real world .
But say that you are REALLY good in arranging that harvested materials make their way to the crafters , does that make you a good procurer in the real world ?
No.. . Why ?
Because the game world is consistent , eternally the same .
If you want more light hides , you just go out an get them and you can just grind them in a respawn rich area .
There are no government quatas , no competition , no disease or enviromental factors .
It is , simple .
The real world is everything but simple .
Some of you might mentions Star Wars Galaxies resource system which changed quality .
True , but you could freely travel and harvest all over the universe .
As shown by a recent story , in the real world a rare mineral simply might no longer become available in the real world ( China restricting exports or rare earth minerals ) .
Gaming experience is no more the playing experience .
Sure , if you played with blocks as a small child , you MIGHT one day become an architect BUT if you are going for your first job interview as an architect I would n't list " block building " on my CV .
You might mention it during your background story , " why do you want to be an architect " " Well I always liked the idea of building something , even as a small child when I made bridges with blocks " .
But it is PLAYING experience , not real world .
Being a raid leader does NOT make you a leader , it just gives you some play experience at doing it .
If you use it at just a light intro to the real thing , then you will do fine .
But if you think it prepares you for the real thing or even is the same as the real thing , then you will fail horribly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a MMORPG the rules are clear and you know what you can and cannot do.
Follow the strategy and everything will come together, there are few surprises and the AI has no emotion, no ego.
No raid boss will deny you victory because you stepped on its toes.
In the real world, that is not the case, you might have followed the right guide to grind your career to the next level and still never ping because the AI has decided that they shall promote the girl because she is prettier or the guy because he is not a girl.
Or the minority because there ain't enough of them or the majority because everyone knows minorities can't cut it.
What I have noted is that younger people are very good at being assertive but not very good at being meek.
They know how to succeed but not how to fail.
And yet, when they finish school where many seem to believe they employ the teachers they are suddenly put in an environment where they are not the top, worse, the top positions are already taken and you will have to compete for them with people who got more experience.
If I would be hiring a new person fresh from school, then I would not be impressed with your raid leading capabilty.
Now if you put on your CV that you are a good raid follower, that would matter a whole lot more.
Anyone can shout orders, following them is a lot harder.
Who needs the other more?
Generals vs Soldiers?
A simple head count will give you the answer.
A new employer will not need another manager, another boss especially one who has not yet proven himself, but they will need people who can do the stuff that is required.
And doing that stuff is often boring and unrewarding with you requiring years of grinding away at menial tasks to get anywhere, and there is no progress bar to follow.
Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate that gaming experience can enhance abilities in the real world.
If you can organize your guilds supply chain (who crafts what) then you might be a good organizer in the real world.
But say that you are REALLY good in arranging that harvested materials make their way to the crafters, does that make you a good procurer in the real world?
No...
Why?
Because the game world is consistent, eternally the same.
If you want more light hides, you just go out an get them and you can just grind them in a respawn rich area.
There are no government quatas, no competition, no disease or enviromental factors.
It is, simple.
The real world is everything but simple.
Some of you might mentions Star Wars Galaxies resource system which changed quality.
True, but you could freely travel and harvest all over the universe.
As shown by a recent story, in the real world a rare mineral simply might no longer become available in the real world (China restricting exports or rare earth minerals).
Gaming experience is no more the playing experience.
Sure, if you played with blocks as a small child, you MIGHT one day become an architect BUT if you are going for your first job interview as an architect I wouldn't list "block building" on my CV.
You might mention it during your background story, "why do you want to be an architect" "Well I always liked the idea of building something, even as a small child when I made bridges with blocks".
But it is PLAYING experience, not real world.
Being a raid leader does NOT make you a leader, it just gives you some play experience at doing it.
If you use it at just a light intro to the real thing, then you will do fine.
But if you think it prepares you for the real thing or even is the same as the real thing, then you will fail horribly.</sentencetext>
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