<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_15_0810230</id>
	<title>App Store Piracy Losses Estimated At $459 Million</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1263562260000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader passes along this quote from a report at 24/7 Wall St.:
<i>"There have been over 3 billion downloads since the inception of the App Store.  Assuming the proportion of those that are paid apps falls in the middle of the Bernstein estimate, 17\% or 510 million of these were paid applications.  Based on our review of current information, paid applications have a piracy rate of around 75\%.  That supports the figure that for every paid download, there have been 3 pirated downloads.  That puts the number of pirate downloads at 1.53 billion.  If the average price of a paid application is $3, that is $4.59 billion dollars in losses split between Apple and the application developers.  That is, of course, assuming that all of those pirates would have made purchases had the application not been available to them for free.  This is almost certainly not the case.  A fair estimate of the proportion of people who would have used the App Store if they did not use pirated applications is about 10\%. This estimate <a href="http://247wallst.com/2010/01/13/apple-app-store-has-lost-450-million-to-piracy/">yields about $459 million in lost revenue</a> for Apple and application developers."</i>
A response posted at Mashable <a href="http://mashable.com/2010/01/13/app-store-piracy/">takes issue with some of the figures</a>, particularly the 75\% piracy rate. While such rates <a href="http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/10/24/0136250/App-Store-Developer-Speaks-Out-On-Game-Piracy">have been seen with game apps</a>, it's unclear whether non-game apps suffer the same fate.</htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader passes along this quote from a report at 24/7 Wall St. : " There have been over 3 billion downloads since the inception of the App Store .
Assuming the proportion of those that are paid apps falls in the middle of the Bernstein estimate , 17 \ % or 510 million of these were paid applications .
Based on our review of current information , paid applications have a piracy rate of around 75 \ % .
That supports the figure that for every paid download , there have been 3 pirated downloads .
That puts the number of pirate downloads at 1.53 billion .
If the average price of a paid application is $ 3 , that is $ 4.59 billion dollars in losses split between Apple and the application developers .
That is , of course , assuming that all of those pirates would have made purchases had the application not been available to them for free .
This is almost certainly not the case .
A fair estimate of the proportion of people who would have used the App Store if they did not use pirated applications is about 10 \ % .
This estimate yields about $ 459 million in lost revenue for Apple and application developers .
" A response posted at Mashable takes issue with some of the figures , particularly the 75 \ % piracy rate .
While such rates have been seen with game apps , it 's unclear whether non-game apps suffer the same fate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader passes along this quote from a report at 24/7 Wall St.:
"There have been over 3 billion downloads since the inception of the App Store.
Assuming the proportion of those that are paid apps falls in the middle of the Bernstein estimate, 17\% or 510 million of these were paid applications.
Based on our review of current information, paid applications have a piracy rate of around 75\%.
That supports the figure that for every paid download, there have been 3 pirated downloads.
That puts the number of pirate downloads at 1.53 billion.
If the average price of a paid application is $3, that is $4.59 billion dollars in losses split between Apple and the application developers.
That is, of course, assuming that all of those pirates would have made purchases had the application not been available to them for free.
This is almost certainly not the case.
A fair estimate of the proportion of people who would have used the App Store if they did not use pirated applications is about 10\%.
This estimate yields about $459 million in lost revenue for Apple and application developers.
"
A response posted at Mashable takes issue with some of the figures, particularly the 75\% piracy rate.
While such rates have been seen with game apps, it's unclear whether non-game apps suffer the same fate.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30834474</id>
	<title>Re:STFU about Apple for a moment</title>
	<author>Sexleksaker</author>
	<datestamp>1264012500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree there is many palyers out there that would like to create applications for phones.  SOme younger companies have great ideeas!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree there is many palyers out there that would like to create applications for phones .
SOme younger companies have great ideeas !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree there is many palyers out there that would like to create applications for phones.
SOme younger companies have great ideeas!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30798706</id>
	<title>The reason for that</title>
	<author>Kyusaku Natsume</author>
	<datestamp>1263746700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is that most people here in Mexico couldn't pay for software even if they really, really wanted to. When the minimum wage is around USD$3.5 daily, the average income is USD$9 daily, there is not enough spare money to pay USD$200 +16\% VAT for commonly used software. I personally, pay for almost all the software that I use, but then, I have a good enough income that could keep honest people honest. The shameful and stupid failure (I still think that this was made on purpose to kiss Bill Gates ass, even the panistas aren't that incompetent) of the Fox's administration to successfully promote the use of Linux in Mexico's schools in the early 2000's kept Microsoft entrenchment in the OS and apps arena in the country, making rampant piracy and corruption the norm in computer use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is that most people here in Mexico could n't pay for software even if they really , really wanted to .
When the minimum wage is around USD $ 3.5 daily , the average income is USD $ 9 daily , there is not enough spare money to pay USD $ 200 + 16 \ % VAT for commonly used software .
I personally , pay for almost all the software that I use , but then , I have a good enough income that could keep honest people honest .
The shameful and stupid failure ( I still think that this was made on purpose to kiss Bill Gates ass , even the panistas are n't that incompetent ) of the Fox 's administration to successfully promote the use of Linux in Mexico 's schools in the early 2000 's kept Microsoft entrenchment in the OS and apps arena in the country , making rampant piracy and corruption the norm in computer use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is that most people here in Mexico couldn't pay for software even if they really, really wanted to.
When the minimum wage is around USD$3.5 daily, the average income is USD$9 daily, there is not enough spare money to pay USD$200 +16\% VAT for commonly used software.
I personally, pay for almost all the software that I use, but then, I have a good enough income that could keep honest people honest.
The shameful and stupid failure (I still think that this was made on purpose to kiss Bill Gates ass, even the panistas aren't that incompetent) of the Fox's administration to successfully promote the use of Linux in Mexico's schools in the early 2000's kept Microsoft entrenchment in the OS and apps arena in the country, making rampant piracy and corruption the norm in computer use.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778494</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778568</id>
	<title>Stupid Numbers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263569100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Apple and third-party developers have lost $450 million due to App Store piracy since the store launched in July of 2008, according to an analysis by 24/7 Wall Street. This number might seem shocking at first, but the buzz generated by this report is misleading&mdash;the estimate is based on questionable numbers and an optimistic assumption that pirates would otherwise buy the software they steal."</p><p>See <a href="http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/450-million-iphone-piracy-figure-not-grounded-in-reality.ars" title="arstechnica.com" rel="nofollow">http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/450-million-iphone-piracy-figure-not-grounded-in-reality.ars</a> [arstechnica.com] for details.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Apple and third-party developers have lost $ 450 million due to App Store piracy since the store launched in July of 2008 , according to an analysis by 24/7 Wall Street .
This number might seem shocking at first , but the buzz generated by this report is misleading    the estimate is based on questionable numbers and an optimistic assumption that pirates would otherwise buy the software they steal .
" See http : //arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/450-million-iphone-piracy-figure-not-grounded-in-reality.ars [ arstechnica.com ] for details .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Apple and third-party developers have lost $450 million due to App Store piracy since the store launched in July of 2008, according to an analysis by 24/7 Wall Street.
This number might seem shocking at first, but the buzz generated by this report is misleading—the estimate is based on questionable numbers and an optimistic assumption that pirates would otherwise buy the software they steal.
"See http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/450-million-iphone-piracy-figure-not-grounded-in-reality.ars [arstechnica.com] for details.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779270</id>
	<title>Re:STFU about Apple for a moment</title>
	<author>delinear</author>
	<datestamp>1263573120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The main issue with this as far as I can tell (as a user and an interested observer) is the massive number of available platforms. It seems when an app or game is written for mobile devices, it tends to officially support only a subset of the most current (and some of the more popular older) handsets, I don't know if this is a calculated move on the part of the developers to force users to buy new versions every 18 - 24 months when they switch phone, or if it's a result of the fast pace of handset evolution. Either way it makes it incredibly difficult to have an "app store for everyone" approach, just supporting all those users with diverse devices and multiple software versions would soon become a nightmare.</p><p>What Apple have done is the same thing they did in the computer market, take control over the hardware in order to provide a relatively stable platform for software development - sure they're still adding features and functionality, but storage size aside, there are 3 major iPhone versions (okay and the iPod too but I guess cell phone aside the underlying technology is similar) compared to many thousands of other handsets. In that environment it's much simpler to create an app store where users can easily find the right software version and be reasonably sure that it will run without issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The main issue with this as far as I can tell ( as a user and an interested observer ) is the massive number of available platforms .
It seems when an app or game is written for mobile devices , it tends to officially support only a subset of the most current ( and some of the more popular older ) handsets , I do n't know if this is a calculated move on the part of the developers to force users to buy new versions every 18 - 24 months when they switch phone , or if it 's a result of the fast pace of handset evolution .
Either way it makes it incredibly difficult to have an " app store for everyone " approach , just supporting all those users with diverse devices and multiple software versions would soon become a nightmare.What Apple have done is the same thing they did in the computer market , take control over the hardware in order to provide a relatively stable platform for software development - sure they 're still adding features and functionality , but storage size aside , there are 3 major iPhone versions ( okay and the iPod too but I guess cell phone aside the underlying technology is similar ) compared to many thousands of other handsets .
In that environment it 's much simpler to create an app store where users can easily find the right software version and be reasonably sure that it will run without issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The main issue with this as far as I can tell (as a user and an interested observer) is the massive number of available platforms.
It seems when an app or game is written for mobile devices, it tends to officially support only a subset of the most current (and some of the more popular older) handsets, I don't know if this is a calculated move on the part of the developers to force users to buy new versions every 18 - 24 months when they switch phone, or if it's a result of the fast pace of handset evolution.
Either way it makes it incredibly difficult to have an "app store for everyone" approach, just supporting all those users with diverse devices and multiple software versions would soon become a nightmare.What Apple have done is the same thing they did in the computer market, take control over the hardware in order to provide a relatively stable platform for software development - sure they're still adding features and functionality, but storage size aside, there are 3 major iPhone versions (okay and the iPod too but I guess cell phone aside the underlying technology is similar) compared to many thousands of other handsets.
In that environment it's much simpler to create an app store where users can easily find the right software version and be reasonably sure that it will run without issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778318</id>
	<title>piracy numbers are almost always wrong...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263567780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The thing that these articles fail to realize is that just because an app (on any platform) has been pirated it does not mean it is a lost sale.<br>Many times, the people who have "pirated" the software would have never paid money for it.  And out of these some people actually find they really like the app and go back and buy it.</p><p>Not saying piracy is all like this.  But a large number of these "lost sales" are sales they were never going to have anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The thing that these articles fail to realize is that just because an app ( on any platform ) has been pirated it does not mean it is a lost sale.Many times , the people who have " pirated " the software would have never paid money for it .
And out of these some people actually find they really like the app and go back and buy it.Not saying piracy is all like this .
But a large number of these " lost sales " are sales they were never going to have anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The thing that these articles fail to realize is that just because an app (on any platform) has been pirated it does not mean it is a lost sale.Many times, the people who have "pirated" the software would have never paid money for it.
And out of these some people actually find they really like the app and go back and buy it.Not saying piracy is all like this.
But a large number of these "lost sales" are sales they were never going to have anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30793934</id>
	<title>diode</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263642240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Different company, but I recently downloaded a cracked version of a popular 3D application. I have found that I am really enjoying using it and have now order a legitimate copy.</p><p>Going by the logic Apple has used to calculate the losses stated in this article, this would count as a lost sale.</p><p>The people releasing these figures know they are bogus. It doesn't matter though, so long as the majority of people (notably politicians) who read them don't think to question where the figures came from.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Different company , but I recently downloaded a cracked version of a popular 3D application .
I have found that I am really enjoying using it and have now order a legitimate copy.Going by the logic Apple has used to calculate the losses stated in this article , this would count as a lost sale.The people releasing these figures know they are bogus .
It does n't matter though , so long as the majority of people ( notably politicians ) who read them do n't think to question where the figures came from .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Different company, but I recently downloaded a cracked version of a popular 3D application.
I have found that I am really enjoying using it and have now order a legitimate copy.Going by the logic Apple has used to calculate the losses stated in this article, this would count as a lost sale.The people releasing these figures know they are bogus.
It doesn't matter though, so long as the majority of people (notably politicians) who read them don't think to question where the figures came from.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30780872</id>
	<title>Re:looking around</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263580440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know 9 people personally who have iphones. of those people, only one of them pirates apps, however, he probably has more apps than all of us combined...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know 9 people personally who have iphones .
of those people , only one of them pirates apps , however , he probably has more apps than all of us combined.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know 9 people personally who have iphones.
of those people, only one of them pirates apps, however, he probably has more apps than all of us combined...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778124</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778820</id>
	<title>Re:looking around</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1263570300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, there are just not many people around who own armed ships nowadays.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)<br>(Hint: You just helped the **AA, spread their lies and FUD, by using that word. Don&rsquo;t do it, please.)</p><p>I have tons of downloaded apps on my system. In fact everything that is not a good game, or part of my Linux systems, is downloaded.<br>Because it does not make sense to pay thousands of dollars for Adobe&rsquo;s Master Suite CS4, when all you do is the occasional photoshopping. It hurts nobody, because I would and could not buy it anyway. In fact it even helps Adobe, as I&rsquo;m now trained in using their software, instead of e.g. Gimp.</p><p>Also, as I said: Apps are not a product. Ever. They are information that resulted from a service. Not a physical object. That companies choose to use a business model that has nothing to do with physical reality, is their problem. They should have asked money for the service.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , there are just not many people around who own armed ships nowadays .
; ) ( Hint : You just helped the * * AA , spread their lies and FUD , by using that word .
Don    t do it , please .
) I have tons of downloaded apps on my system .
In fact everything that is not a good game , or part of my Linux systems , is downloaded.Because it does not make sense to pay thousands of dollars for Adobe    s Master Suite CS4 , when all you do is the occasional photoshopping .
It hurts nobody , because I would and could not buy it anyway .
In fact it even helps Adobe , as I    m now trained in using their software , instead of e.g .
Gimp.Also , as I said : Apps are not a product .
Ever. They are information that resulted from a service .
Not a physical object .
That companies choose to use a business model that has nothing to do with physical reality , is their problem .
They should have asked money for the service .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, there are just not many people around who own armed ships nowadays.
;)(Hint: You just helped the **AA, spread their lies and FUD, by using that word.
Don’t do it, please.
)I have tons of downloaded apps on my system.
In fact everything that is not a good game, or part of my Linux systems, is downloaded.Because it does not make sense to pay thousands of dollars for Adobe’s Master Suite CS4, when all you do is the occasional photoshopping.
It hurts nobody, because I would and could not buy it anyway.
In fact it even helps Adobe, as I’m now trained in using their software, instead of e.g.
Gimp.Also, as I said: Apps are not a product.
Ever. They are information that resulted from a service.
Not a physical object.
That companies choose to use a business model that has nothing to do with physical reality, is their problem.
They should have asked money for the service.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778124</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778054</id>
	<title>How do you pirate?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263566160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't own an iPhone, but how are these apps pirated?  I thought that they were all digitally signed and so forth to prevent this?  I know you can "jail break" phones, but I didn't realize it let you do this.....I am just curious.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't own an iPhone , but how are these apps pirated ?
I thought that they were all digitally signed and so forth to prevent this ?
I know you can " jail break " phones , but I did n't realize it let you do this.....I am just curious .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't own an iPhone, but how are these apps pirated?
I thought that they were all digitally signed and so forth to prevent this?
I know you can "jail break" phones, but I didn't realize it let you do this.....I am just curious.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778108</id>
	<title>'Losses'</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263566580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm suffering massive losses too - nobody gave a billion dollars yesterday!  That's a billion dollar loss in a single day!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm suffering massive losses too - nobody gave a billion dollars yesterday !
That 's a billion dollar loss in a single day !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm suffering massive losses too - nobody gave a billion dollars yesterday!
That's a billion dollar loss in a single day!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30780676</id>
	<title>I am the biggest STUD!</title>
	<author>SmallFurryCreature</author>
	<datestamp>1263579600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lets assume I have sex with a different woman each day, then that means I am so good, I can charge for it. Say, a thousand euro per bonk. That makes 5000 euro per evening. But because I instead posted on slashdot to comment on your post, I missed tonights income. You owe me 5000 euro.
</p><p>Check is acceptable. Thank you.\
</p><p> <i>Anyone bothered to read the article when the second sentence of the summary starts the argument with "lets assume". Lets assume the moon is made of gold, why is NASA then not rich?</i></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lets assume I have sex with a different woman each day , then that means I am so good , I can charge for it .
Say , a thousand euro per bonk .
That makes 5000 euro per evening .
But because I instead posted on slashdot to comment on your post , I missed tonights income .
You owe me 5000 euro .
Check is acceptable .
Thank you. \ Anyone bothered to read the article when the second sentence of the summary starts the argument with " lets assume " .
Lets assume the moon is made of gold , why is NASA then not rich ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lets assume I have sex with a different woman each day, then that means I am so good, I can charge for it.
Say, a thousand euro per bonk.
That makes 5000 euro per evening.
But because I instead posted on slashdot to comment on your post, I missed tonights income.
You owe me 5000 euro.
Check is acceptable.
Thank you.\
 Anyone bothered to read the article when the second sentence of the summary starts the argument with "lets assume".
Lets assume the moon is made of gold, why is NASA then not rich?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778760</id>
	<title>Must be making huge losses</title>
	<author>91degrees</author>
	<datestamp>1263570060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, 510 million paid apps at $3 each.  That's $1.53 billion<br> <br>
Piracy costs $4.59 billion dollars dollars dollars.<br> <br>
So that means losses of some $3.06 billion.  It's amazing the app store has survived this long.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , 510 million paid apps at $ 3 each .
That 's $ 1.53 billion Piracy costs $ 4.59 billion dollars dollars dollars .
So that means losses of some $ 3.06 billion .
It 's amazing the app store has survived this long .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, 510 million paid apps at $3 each.
That's $1.53 billion 
Piracy costs $4.59 billion dollars dollars dollars.
So that means losses of some $3.06 billion.
It's amazing the app store has survived this long.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779004</id>
	<title>The Reason Slashdot Posted</title>
	<author>RobK</author>
	<datestamp>1263571440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We're all missing why this was posted to slashdot.  I too was outraged by the numbers and finally realized that this post was about the *RESPONSE* to the Wall Street article, not the article itself.

I'll bet not one of us has read the response at <a href="http://mashable.com/2010/01/13/app-store-piracy/" title="mashable.com" rel="nofollow">http://mashable.com/2010/01/13/app-store-piracy/</a> [mashable.com] .  Let's do that before hanging someone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're all missing why this was posted to slashdot .
I too was outraged by the numbers and finally realized that this post was about the * RESPONSE * to the Wall Street article , not the article itself .
I 'll bet not one of us has read the response at http : //mashable.com/2010/01/13/app-store-piracy/ [ mashable.com ] .
Let 's do that before hanging someone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're all missing why this was posted to slashdot.
I too was outraged by the numbers and finally realized that this post was about the *RESPONSE* to the Wall Street article, not the article itself.
I'll bet not one of us has read the response at http://mashable.com/2010/01/13/app-store-piracy/ [mashable.com] .
Let's do that before hanging someone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778586</id>
	<title>Re:'Losses'</title>
	<author>sonnejw0</author>
	<datestamp>1263569220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's called "opportunity costs", and it's a good way for businesses to cook their books, I mean lower their taxes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's called " opportunity costs " , and it 's a good way for businesses to cook their books , I mean lower their taxes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's called "opportunity costs", and it's a good way for businesses to cook their books, I mean lower their taxes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778740</id>
	<title>For the last time: They are no *losses*!</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1263569940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because they would not have been sold in the first place!<br>That is a false assumption.</p><p>It&rsquo;s like me opening a sausage stand, and suing anyone passing by, because I lost money, because they did not buy my overpriced sausages!</p><p>Except of course, that ideas/information are no product/good in the first place.<br>They are the result of a service. You can ask money for that service. But the information is free. As soon as it&rsquo;s out there, it&rsquo;s gone, and you&rsquo;re done. And if you don&rsquo;t let it out there, you can&rsquo;t prove that it exists at all.<br>So if you want money from it, you make damn sure to get money to put it out there the first time. And expect that to be the only time you get money from it.<br>(Yes, that is realistic, and I know more than one business model that can work that way, without one person having to buy it. Just imagine replacing the investor/producer by the end customers, cutting out the middle man, and you got an example.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)<br>From then on, <em>everybody</em> &ldquo;owns&rdquo; that information, and can do with it whatever he wants.</p><p>It&rsquo;s sad that even nowadays, the <strong>headlines here on Slashdot</strong> are so full of shit!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because they would not have been sold in the first place ! That is a false assumption.It    s like me opening a sausage stand , and suing anyone passing by , because I lost money , because they did not buy my overpriced sausages ! Except of course , that ideas/information are no product/good in the first place.They are the result of a service .
You can ask money for that service .
But the information is free .
As soon as it    s out there , it    s gone , and you    re done .
And if you don    t let it out there , you can    t prove that it exists at all.So if you want money from it , you make damn sure to get money to put it out there the first time .
And expect that to be the only time you get money from it .
( Yes , that is realistic , and I know more than one business model that can work that way , without one person having to buy it .
Just imagine replacing the investor/producer by the end customers , cutting out the middle man , and you got an example .
: ) From then on , everybody    owns    that information , and can do with it whatever he wants.It    s sad that even nowadays , the headlines here on Slashdot are so full of shit !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because they would not have been sold in the first place!That is a false assumption.It’s like me opening a sausage stand, and suing anyone passing by, because I lost money, because they did not buy my overpriced sausages!Except of course, that ideas/information are no product/good in the first place.They are the result of a service.
You can ask money for that service.
But the information is free.
As soon as it’s out there, it’s gone, and you’re done.
And if you don’t let it out there, you can’t prove that it exists at all.So if you want money from it, you make damn sure to get money to put it out there the first time.
And expect that to be the only time you get money from it.
(Yes, that is realistic, and I know more than one business model that can work that way, without one person having to buy it.
Just imagine replacing the investor/producer by the end customers, cutting out the middle man, and you got an example.
:)From then on, everybody “owns” that information, and can do with it whatever he wants.It’s sad that even nowadays, the headlines here on Slashdot are so full of shit!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778496</id>
	<title>Apple changed the rules to cut down on piracy</title>
	<author>alen</author>
	<datestamp>1263568800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Few months ago Apple changed the rules and they now allow in app purchasing from free apps. before you had to charge for an app to so in-app purchasing. This allows companies to give away stripped down demo type apps with limited functionality and charge for features, new levels, weapons or whatever. And from what i'm reading on the internet it's very easy to detect jailbroken iphones and not allow them to do in app purchasing. pretty much all the piracy that was out there was on jailbroken iphones because it was easy to rip out the app DRM. the solution is to not allow any jailbroken iphone to purchase in app content</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Few months ago Apple changed the rules and they now allow in app purchasing from free apps .
before you had to charge for an app to so in-app purchasing .
This allows companies to give away stripped down demo type apps with limited functionality and charge for features , new levels , weapons or whatever .
And from what i 'm reading on the internet it 's very easy to detect jailbroken iphones and not allow them to do in app purchasing .
pretty much all the piracy that was out there was on jailbroken iphones because it was easy to rip out the app DRM .
the solution is to not allow any jailbroken iphone to purchase in app content</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Few months ago Apple changed the rules and they now allow in app purchasing from free apps.
before you had to charge for an app to so in-app purchasing.
This allows companies to give away stripped down demo type apps with limited functionality and charge for features, new levels, weapons or whatever.
And from what i'm reading on the internet it's very easy to detect jailbroken iphones and not allow them to do in app purchasing.
pretty much all the piracy that was out there was on jailbroken iphones because it was easy to rip out the app DRM.
the solution is to not allow any jailbroken iphone to purchase in app content</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30797702</id>
	<title>Re:How does it work?</title>
	<author>Phoghat</author>
	<datestamp>1263737760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've only been burned twice with paying for an app that turned out to be crap.
<p> they should have "demo" period. Even 24 hours would be good.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've only been burned twice with paying for an app that turned out to be crap .
they should have " demo " period .
Even 24 hours would be good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've only been burned twice with paying for an app that turned out to be crap.
they should have "demo" period.
Even 24 hours would be good.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30780614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778406</id>
	<title>10\%?</title>
	<author>KitsuneSoftware</author>
	<datestamp>1263568320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While I'm glad to see someone finally NOT assuming 100\% of pirates are potential customers, I don't see any justification for the 10\% estimate they give here. Anyone have any sources? (Yes, I did RTFA!)</htmltext>
<tokenext>While I 'm glad to see someone finally NOT assuming 100 \ % of pirates are potential customers , I do n't see any justification for the 10 \ % estimate they give here .
Anyone have any sources ?
( Yes , I did RTFA !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I'm glad to see someone finally NOT assuming 100\% of pirates are potential customers, I don't see any justification for the 10\% estimate they give here.
Anyone have any sources?
(Yes, I did RTFA!
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778128</id>
	<title>How much is that from non apple stores that you ca</title>
	<author>Joe The Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1263566700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How much is that from non apple stores that you can buy apps from?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How much is that from non apple stores that you can buy apps from ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much is that from non apple stores that you can buy apps from?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30780614</id>
	<title>Re:How does it work?</title>
	<author>billcopc</author>
	<datestamp>1263579300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You hit the nail right on the head.  How many times have I looked at an App's description, then turned away because I was "on the fence" ?  What I would love is a 48 hour refund window.  Buy the app, try it out, and if it is absolute shite (like most are), get your $2.99 back.  You might be saying "three bucks is nothing", and you're right, but I am quite vehemently opposed to giving those three bucks to some asshat who can deliver a great writeup for a shitty app.  The store ratings are also useless, because it's a well known fact that 99\% of users are clueless idiots, so unless I am a also a clueless idiot, those ratings won't apply to me.</p><p>Prime example: RDP and VNC clients.  There's about a dozen or so out there, and I've tried them all.  All but one of them suck ass, whether it's sluggish performance, lack of configurability, or in one case I was expected to register all my usernames and passwords to a 3rd party so the app could sign in to their web service, just to give me back my logins.  They also don't come cheap, $9.99 up to $24.99 for some of these stinkers.  Am I really expected to spend $100 trying all these things, just to settle on the one that is indeed everything I want it to be ?  Is it fair to the one good app, that all the others got paid anyway ?  I think not.  That one great developer deserves compensation and praise, the other 10 deserve a kick in the nuts and a chargeback fee.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You hit the nail right on the head .
How many times have I looked at an App 's description , then turned away because I was " on the fence " ?
What I would love is a 48 hour refund window .
Buy the app , try it out , and if it is absolute shite ( like most are ) , get your $ 2.99 back .
You might be saying " three bucks is nothing " , and you 're right , but I am quite vehemently opposed to giving those three bucks to some asshat who can deliver a great writeup for a shitty app .
The store ratings are also useless , because it 's a well known fact that 99 \ % of users are clueless idiots , so unless I am a also a clueless idiot , those ratings wo n't apply to me.Prime example : RDP and VNC clients .
There 's about a dozen or so out there , and I 've tried them all .
All but one of them suck ass , whether it 's sluggish performance , lack of configurability , or in one case I was expected to register all my usernames and passwords to a 3rd party so the app could sign in to their web service , just to give me back my logins .
They also do n't come cheap , $ 9.99 up to $ 24.99 for some of these stinkers .
Am I really expected to spend $ 100 trying all these things , just to settle on the one that is indeed everything I want it to be ?
Is it fair to the one good app , that all the others got paid anyway ?
I think not .
That one great developer deserves compensation and praise , the other 10 deserve a kick in the nuts and a chargeback fee .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You hit the nail right on the head.
How many times have I looked at an App's description, then turned away because I was "on the fence" ?
What I would love is a 48 hour refund window.
Buy the app, try it out, and if it is absolute shite (like most are), get your $2.99 back.
You might be saying "three bucks is nothing", and you're right, but I am quite vehemently opposed to giving those three bucks to some asshat who can deliver a great writeup for a shitty app.
The store ratings are also useless, because it's a well known fact that 99\% of users are clueless idiots, so unless I am a also a clueless idiot, those ratings won't apply to me.Prime example: RDP and VNC clients.
There's about a dozen or so out there, and I've tried them all.
All but one of them suck ass, whether it's sluggish performance, lack of configurability, or in one case I was expected to register all my usernames and passwords to a 3rd party so the app could sign in to their web service, just to give me back my logins.
They also don't come cheap, $9.99 up to $24.99 for some of these stinkers.
Am I really expected to spend $100 trying all these things, just to settle on the one that is indeed everything I want it to be ?
Is it fair to the one good app, that all the others got paid anyway ?
I think not.
That one great developer deserves compensation and praise, the other 10 deserve a kick in the nuts and a chargeback fee.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778982</id>
	<title>Saw pirated apps in action - I ended up buying</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263571380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My friend got an iPhone and never paid a single dollar for an application.<br>I just saw the applications he used that I really liked (education related, not games), I ended up buying an iTouch and the killer apps I wanted.<br>Sometimes piracy is just free publicity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My friend got an iPhone and never paid a single dollar for an application.I just saw the applications he used that I really liked ( education related , not games ) , I ended up buying an iTouch and the killer apps I wanted.Sometimes piracy is just free publicity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My friend got an iPhone and never paid a single dollar for an application.I just saw the applications he used that I really liked (education related, not games), I ended up buying an iTouch and the killer apps I wanted.Sometimes piracy is just free publicity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778124</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778340</id>
	<title>Re:Is there an app for bullshit?</title>
	<author>KitsuneSoftware</author>
	<datestamp>1263567900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>It could be that pirates have significantly more apps installed than anyone else - not an unreasonable possibility, as they won't be wondering if they *really* want to spend their money on, for example, fifteen almost identical clones of the same miniclip game.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It could be that pirates have significantly more apps installed than anyone else - not an unreasonable possibility , as they wo n't be wondering if they * really * want to spend their money on , for example , fifteen almost identical clones of the same miniclip game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It could be that pirates have significantly more apps installed than anyone else - not an unreasonable possibility, as they won't be wondering if they *really* want to spend their money on, for example, fifteen almost identical clones of the same miniclip game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778602</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263569340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lost Income, now you're starting to sound like the Record &amp; movie Companies. Worrying about what they lost. Better spend a billion on DRM quick.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lost Income , now you 're starting to sound like the Record &amp; movie Companies .
Worrying about what they lost .
Better spend a billion on DRM quick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lost Income, now you're starting to sound like the Record &amp; movie Companies.
Worrying about what they lost.
Better spend a billion on DRM quick.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778444</id>
	<title>Can they be called losses</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263568500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Digital property isn't like physical property. It's not lost when someone steals it. So unless you can show that those same pirates would have paid for that same app if stealing it wasn't an option, then it's not really a loss.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Digital property is n't like physical property .
It 's not lost when someone steals it .
So unless you can show that those same pirates would have paid for that same app if stealing it was n't an option , then it 's not really a loss .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Digital property isn't like physical property.
It's not lost when someone steals it.
So unless you can show that those same pirates would have paid for that same app if stealing it wasn't an option, then it's not really a loss.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778616</id>
	<title>Re:Is there an app for bullshit?</title>
	<author>sonnejw0</author>
	<datestamp>1263569400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And honestly, I refuse to pay any amount of money for a stupid iPhone/Touch application.  It's a goddamn PHONE/TOY.  I'd only use the app as a novelty a FEW TIMES and then forget I have it.  There is absolutely NO application I would be willing to pay any amount of money for. And I highly doubt anybody that has pirated an iPhone/Touch app would have actually purchased it otherwise.  These developers should just be happy that they sneak GoogleAds into all of their apps so they get revenue from the "pirated" apps anyway.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And honestly , I refuse to pay any amount of money for a stupid iPhone/Touch application .
It 's a goddamn PHONE/TOY .
I 'd only use the app as a novelty a FEW TIMES and then forget I have it .
There is absolutely NO application I would be willing to pay any amount of money for .
And I highly doubt anybody that has pirated an iPhone/Touch app would have actually purchased it otherwise .
These developers should just be happy that they sneak GoogleAds into all of their apps so they get revenue from the " pirated " apps anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And honestly, I refuse to pay any amount of money for a stupid iPhone/Touch application.
It's a goddamn PHONE/TOY.
I'd only use the app as a novelty a FEW TIMES and then forget I have it.
There is absolutely NO application I would be willing to pay any amount of money for.
And I highly doubt anybody that has pirated an iPhone/Touch app would have actually purchased it otherwise.
These developers should just be happy that they sneak GoogleAds into all of their apps so they get revenue from the "pirated" apps anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30780640</id>
	<title>70\% of lost revenue is developer's, not Apple's</title>
	<author>perpenso</author>
	<datestamp>1263579480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Who cares about Apple? They are just another player..</p></div></blockquote><p>

The description states that the lost revenue is not just Apple's: "This estimate yields about $459 million in lost revenue for Apple and application developers".  Apple keeps only 30\% of the sale price, if we accept this $459M figure then $321 is for the developers.</p><blockquote><div><p>Piracy is a minor problem</p></div></blockquote><p>

For Electronic Arts and Activision, but for small developers and startups piracy is a major problem.  I've worked for many years at a big well funded developer and a few years at startups and small developers.  Piracy disproportionately harms the small developers and startups, it can easily make the difference between success and failure.  I witnessed this in the 80s, the 90s,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br> <br>

--<br>
<a href="http://www.perpenso.com/calc/" title="perpenso.com" rel="nofollow">Perpenso Calc</a> [perpenso.com] for iPhone and iPod touch, scientific and bill/tip calculator, fractions, complex numbers, RPN</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who cares about Apple ?
They are just another player. . The description states that the lost revenue is not just Apple 's : " This estimate yields about $ 459 million in lost revenue for Apple and application developers " .
Apple keeps only 30 \ % of the sale price , if we accept this $ 459M figure then $ 321 is for the developers.Piracy is a minor problem For Electronic Arts and Activision , but for small developers and startups piracy is a major problem .
I 've worked for many years at a big well funded developer and a few years at startups and small developers .
Piracy disproportionately harms the small developers and startups , it can easily make the difference between success and failure .
I witnessed this in the 80s , the 90s , .. . -- Perpenso Calc [ perpenso.com ] for iPhone and iPod touch , scientific and bill/tip calculator , fractions , complex numbers , RPN</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who cares about Apple?
They are just another player..

The description states that the lost revenue is not just Apple's: "This estimate yields about $459 million in lost revenue for Apple and application developers".
Apple keeps only 30\% of the sale price, if we accept this $459M figure then $321 is for the developers.Piracy is a minor problem

For Electronic Arts and Activision, but for small developers and startups piracy is a major problem.
I've worked for many years at a big well funded developer and a few years at startups and small developers.
Piracy disproportionately harms the small developers and startups, it can easily make the difference between success and failure.
I witnessed this in the 80s, the 90s, ... 

--
Perpenso Calc [perpenso.com] for iPhone and iPod touch, scientific and bill/tip calculator, fractions, complex numbers, RPN
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778494</id>
	<title>Re:looking around</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263568800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Looking around I have yet to see a single friend of mine with a paid app... Just saying.</p><p>Where I am from, nobody pays for Microsoft/Adobe/EA/Sony and others' software.  Being it games or applications. Geez, the *first* time I saw a registered version of WinRar (not registered through a crack that is) was at my new job where I am now at (out of Mexico that is).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Looking around I have yet to see a single friend of mine with a paid app... Just saying.Where I am from , nobody pays for Microsoft/Adobe/EA/Sony and others ' software .
Being it games or applications .
Geez , the * first * time I saw a registered version of WinRar ( not registered through a crack that is ) was at my new job where I am now at ( out of Mexico that is ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looking around I have yet to see a single friend of mine with a paid app... Just saying.Where I am from, nobody pays for Microsoft/Adobe/EA/Sony and others' software.
Being it games or applications.
Geez, the *first* time I saw a registered version of WinRar (not registered through a crack that is) was at my new job where I am now at (out of Mexico that is).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778124</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778402</id>
	<title>Please accept this picture of a spider...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263568260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://keboch.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/please-accept-this-spider-as-payment/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //keboch.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/please-accept-this-spider-as-payment/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://keboch.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/please-accept-this-spider-as-payment/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779642</id>
	<title>Re:looking around</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263575040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There goes that stinking 'I'm just saying' crap again...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There goes that stinking 'I 'm just saying ' crap again.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There goes that stinking 'I'm just saying' crap again...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778124</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778938</id>
	<title>Re:How does it work?</title>
	<author>cayenne8</author>
	<datestamp>1263571080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"I'm curious as exactly how piracy on the iPhone/iTouch works."</i> <p>
I too wonder about this..how do you get something from the app store w/o paying for it...and get it on your phone? I'm guessing it has to be jailbroken first?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I 'm curious as exactly how piracy on the iPhone/iTouch works .
" I too wonder about this..how do you get something from the app store w/o paying for it...and get it on your phone ?
I 'm guessing it has to be jailbroken first ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I'm curious as exactly how piracy on the iPhone/iTouch works.
" 
I too wonder about this..how do you get something from the app store w/o paying for it...and get it on your phone?
I'm guessing it has to be jailbroken first?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778914</id>
	<title>Do you even know any?</title>
	<author>argent</author>
	<datestamp>1263570900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you even know anyone who rips or trades cracked software?</p><p><i> A fair estimate of the proportion of people who would have used the App Store if they did not use pirated applications is about 10\%.</i></p><p>My experience with people who do this is that your estimate is at least a factor of 100 higher than reality. I mean, these guys have everything from ten buck games up to Maya, Photoshop CXSDwhatever, Windows Server Ultimate with Oracle Everything. And they don't buy *any* software. Their whole thing is getting the goods.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you even know anyone who rips or trades cracked software ?
A fair estimate of the proportion of people who would have used the App Store if they did not use pirated applications is about 10 \ % .My experience with people who do this is that your estimate is at least a factor of 100 higher than reality .
I mean , these guys have everything from ten buck games up to Maya , Photoshop CXSDwhatever , Windows Server Ultimate with Oracle Everything .
And they do n't buy * any * software .
Their whole thing is getting the goods .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you even know anyone who rips or trades cracked software?
A fair estimate of the proportion of people who would have used the App Store if they did not use pirated applications is about 10\%.My experience with people who do this is that your estimate is at least a factor of 100 higher than reality.
I mean, these guys have everything from ten buck games up to Maya, Photoshop CXSDwhatever, Windows Server Ultimate with Oracle Everything.
And they don't buy *any* software.
Their whole thing is getting the goods.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779544</id>
	<title>Re:looking around</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263574380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Kind of the same thing with our company. We actually "hire" people--mostly from Mexico, ironically--to work in our office. After 2 weeks, we let them go and don't pay them. We really just wanted to try them out for a few weeks - we had no intention of paying them, even though they did all that work with the expectation of being paid. They really didn't offer or agree to a "tryout period", but screw them.</p><p>We would have to be idiots to pay for work when others are getting it for free! Take advantage of everyone and everything whenever you can - it's a race to the bottom, people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kind of the same thing with our company .
We actually " hire " people--mostly from Mexico , ironically--to work in our office .
After 2 weeks , we let them go and do n't pay them .
We really just wanted to try them out for a few weeks - we had no intention of paying them , even though they did all that work with the expectation of being paid .
They really did n't offer or agree to a " tryout period " , but screw them.We would have to be idiots to pay for work when others are getting it for free !
Take advantage of everyone and everything whenever you can - it 's a race to the bottom , people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kind of the same thing with our company.
We actually "hire" people--mostly from Mexico, ironically--to work in our office.
After 2 weeks, we let them go and don't pay them.
We really just wanted to try them out for a few weeks - we had no intention of paying them, even though they did all that work with the expectation of being paid.
They really didn't offer or agree to a "tryout period", but screw them.We would have to be idiots to pay for work when others are getting it for free!
Take advantage of everyone and everything whenever you can - it's a race to the bottom, people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778494</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779622</id>
	<title>Re:Is there an app for bullshit?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263574920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly how our company feels about temp workers - they're goddamn useless until they've been at our company for AT LEAST a month. We only hire them for A FEW WEEKS--have them sweep up, clean bathrooms, etc.--and then let them go without paying them anything. There is absolutely NO temporary worker we'd EVER pay ANY amount of money to. It's technically true that they didn't agree to come work for us for free--apparently they EXPECTED to be paid, not be "tried out". But screw them. They should just be happy they got to work for us for nothing in return - gets them out of the house, you know?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly how our company feels about temp workers - they 're goddamn useless until they 've been at our company for AT LEAST a month .
We only hire them for A FEW WEEKS--have them sweep up , clean bathrooms , etc.--and then let them go without paying them anything .
There is absolutely NO temporary worker we 'd EVER pay ANY amount of money to .
It 's technically true that they did n't agree to come work for us for free--apparently they EXPECTED to be paid , not be " tried out " .
But screw them .
They should just be happy they got to work for us for nothing in return - gets them out of the house , you know ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly how our company feels about temp workers - they're goddamn useless until they've been at our company for AT LEAST a month.
We only hire them for A FEW WEEKS--have them sweep up, clean bathrooms, etc.--and then let them go without paying them anything.
There is absolutely NO temporary worker we'd EVER pay ANY amount of money to.
It's technically true that they didn't agree to come work for us for free--apparently they EXPECTED to be paid, not be "tried out".
But screw them.
They should just be happy they got to work for us for nothing in return - gets them out of the house, you know?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778616</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779392</id>
	<title>Re:Is there an app for bullshit?</title>
	<author>Dog-Cow</author>
	<datestamp>1263573720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a good thing there are several thousand "smart" applications that are genuinely useful or entertaining.</p><p>You are an asshole.  And stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a good thing there are several thousand " smart " applications that are genuinely useful or entertaining.You are an asshole .
And stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a good thing there are several thousand "smart" applications that are genuinely useful or entertaining.You are an asshole.
And stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778616</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30780030</id>
	<title>Re:How does it work?</title>
	<author>nametaken</author>
	<datestamp>1263576960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Jailbreak phone, download apps from places other than apple (torrent, etc), install.  It just works.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Jailbreak phone , download apps from places other than apple ( torrent , etc ) , install .
It just works .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Jailbreak phone, download apps from places other than apple (torrent, etc), install.
It just works.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778266</id>
	<title>And total loss to society</title>
	<author>Wildclaw</author>
	<datestamp>1263567480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Negative $459 million. Assuming that 10\% of the pirated stuff is use by people who would choose to go without if they couldn't pirate and use value equals the price. And that doesn't include the lower prices that competition from piracy always seem to bring, which increases the number of potential users among those who don't pirate.</p><p>Of course, I have made bullshit assumptions, but so did the article/story title, and my assumptions aren't really that far fetched. I could even be underestimating by a fair bit.</p><p>If you really want to talk about losses, I have spent quite a few hours making up for the deficiencies of the Iphone/Itouch lock down. Enough time that I am seriously regretting trying out an Apple product, even this once. Anyone who claims that Apple products are user friendly, seriously have no idea what they are talking about. When you have to spend hours working around the crippled photo application that Apple provides, or dealing with the sensitive video format (with the Itunes application having only the most basic converter that only works with very few actual files), or dealing with the crappy Itunes syncing interface (which is crappy because everything is built around the store). Or for that matter, not getting an application ported to the platform because it doesn't allow for Java.</p><p>Apple is idiot friendly, but that is it. That means that even people without brains can use it without problem for doing a few common tasks. But if you actually have more brain capacity than that, and can think of stuff that falls outside of those few tasks, Apple only gets in the way with their control-freak ideal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Negative $ 459 million .
Assuming that 10 \ % of the pirated stuff is use by people who would choose to go without if they could n't pirate and use value equals the price .
And that does n't include the lower prices that competition from piracy always seem to bring , which increases the number of potential users among those who do n't pirate.Of course , I have made bullshit assumptions , but so did the article/story title , and my assumptions are n't really that far fetched .
I could even be underestimating by a fair bit.If you really want to talk about losses , I have spent quite a few hours making up for the deficiencies of the Iphone/Itouch lock down .
Enough time that I am seriously regretting trying out an Apple product , even this once .
Anyone who claims that Apple products are user friendly , seriously have no idea what they are talking about .
When you have to spend hours working around the crippled photo application that Apple provides , or dealing with the sensitive video format ( with the Itunes application having only the most basic converter that only works with very few actual files ) , or dealing with the crappy Itunes syncing interface ( which is crappy because everything is built around the store ) .
Or for that matter , not getting an application ported to the platform because it does n't allow for Java.Apple is idiot friendly , but that is it .
That means that even people without brains can use it without problem for doing a few common tasks .
But if you actually have more brain capacity than that , and can think of stuff that falls outside of those few tasks , Apple only gets in the way with their control-freak ideal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Negative $459 million.
Assuming that 10\% of the pirated stuff is use by people who would choose to go without if they couldn't pirate and use value equals the price.
And that doesn't include the lower prices that competition from piracy always seem to bring, which increases the number of potential users among those who don't pirate.Of course, I have made bullshit assumptions, but so did the article/story title, and my assumptions aren't really that far fetched.
I could even be underestimating by a fair bit.If you really want to talk about losses, I have spent quite a few hours making up for the deficiencies of the Iphone/Itouch lock down.
Enough time that I am seriously regretting trying out an Apple product, even this once.
Anyone who claims that Apple products are user friendly, seriously have no idea what they are talking about.
When you have to spend hours working around the crippled photo application that Apple provides, or dealing with the sensitive video format (with the Itunes application having only the most basic converter that only works with very few actual files), or dealing with the crappy Itunes syncing interface (which is crappy because everything is built around the store).
Or for that matter, not getting an application ported to the platform because it doesn't allow for Java.Apple is idiot friendly, but that is it.
That means that even people without brains can use it without problem for doing a few common tasks.
But if you actually have more brain capacity than that, and can think of stuff that falls outside of those few tasks, Apple only gets in the way with their control-freak ideal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30780626</id>
	<title>Re:heartening to see tacit acknowledgement...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263579360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It was necessary.</p><p>If they had tried to claim 4.5 BILLION  in lost sales over 18 months due to piracy, which the rest of their totally ridiculous claculations gave them as a base number, it would become comically obvious, so they added in a scale factor to make their ridiculous math look less insane.</p><p>Odd captcha: property</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It was necessary.If they had tried to claim 4.5 BILLION in lost sales over 18 months due to piracy , which the rest of their totally ridiculous claculations gave them as a base number , it would become comically obvious , so they added in a scale factor to make their ridiculous math look less insane.Odd captcha : property</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was necessary.If they had tried to claim 4.5 BILLION  in lost sales over 18 months due to piracy, which the rest of their totally ridiculous claculations gave them as a base number, it would become comically obvious, so they added in a scale factor to make their ridiculous math look less insane.Odd captcha: property</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30780258</id>
	<title>Re:Is there an app for bullshit?</title>
	<author>Sububer</author>
	<datestamp>1263577980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>+1 for bullshit.

The demographic of people who own iPhones and iPod Touches is mostly made up of mainstream non-tinkerers who wouldn't know where to start pirating an app, even if they wanted to. I would venture to guess that less than 10\% of owners could steal an app if they tried. Of those, I would guess that less than 10\% would actually steal an app, given that they only cost a few bucks anyway.

How less than 1\% manages to steal 3x more apps than the other greater than 99\% buys is beyond me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>+ 1 for bullshit .
The demographic of people who own iPhones and iPod Touches is mostly made up of mainstream non-tinkerers who would n't know where to start pirating an app , even if they wanted to .
I would venture to guess that less than 10 \ % of owners could steal an app if they tried .
Of those , I would guess that less than 10 \ % would actually steal an app , given that they only cost a few bucks anyway .
How less than 1 \ % manages to steal 3x more apps than the other greater than 99 \ % buys is beyond me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>+1 for bullshit.
The demographic of people who own iPhones and iPod Touches is mostly made up of mainstream non-tinkerers who wouldn't know where to start pirating an app, even if they wanted to.
I would venture to guess that less than 10\% of owners could steal an app if they tried.
Of those, I would guess that less than 10\% would actually steal an app, given that they only cost a few bucks anyway.
How less than 1\% manages to steal 3x more apps than the other greater than 99\% buys is beyond me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30781204</id>
	<title>Re:Based on how much I pirate...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263581640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is anyone really pirating $3 apps?  I've jailbroken mine, but every app I have on my phone I have legally, paid for either via the app store, or Cydia, or is open source.  I cannot fathom that 75\% of all apps are pirated.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is anyone really pirating $ 3 apps ?
I 've jailbroken mine , but every app I have on my phone I have legally , paid for either via the app store , or Cydia , or is open source .
I can not fathom that 75 \ % of all apps are pirated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is anyone really pirating $3 apps?
I've jailbroken mine, but every app I have on my phone I have legally, paid for either via the app store, or Cydia, or is open source.
I cannot fathom that 75\% of all apps are pirated.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778222</id>
	<title>heartening to see tacit acknowledgement...</title>
	<author>Speare</author>
	<datestamp>1263567240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If the average price of a paid application is $3, that is $4.59 billion dollars in losses split between Apple and the application developers. That is, of course, assuming that all of those pirates would have made purchases had the application not been available to them for free. This is almost certainly not the case. A fair estimate of the proportion of people who would have used the App Store if they did not use pirated applications is about 10\%. This estimate yields about $459 million in lost revenue for Apple and application developers.</p></div></blockquote><p>I think the 10\% figure is completely and totally made up, pulled from the aether, with very little to back it up.  However, I was floored to see that this concept was even addressed at all in the "loss" estimation process.  You know that MPAA and RIAA don't acknowledge the phenomenon that if someone finds something on the sidewalk, they're more likely to pick it up than if they find the same thing for sale, even if the price is just a nickel.  I hope that with repeated exposure to the concept, the whole industry will finally concede this point, but let's just say I'm not holding my breath.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the average price of a paid application is $ 3 , that is $ 4.59 billion dollars in losses split between Apple and the application developers .
That is , of course , assuming that all of those pirates would have made purchases had the application not been available to them for free .
This is almost certainly not the case .
A fair estimate of the proportion of people who would have used the App Store if they did not use pirated applications is about 10 \ % .
This estimate yields about $ 459 million in lost revenue for Apple and application developers.I think the 10 \ % figure is completely and totally made up , pulled from the aether , with very little to back it up .
However , I was floored to see that this concept was even addressed at all in the " loss " estimation process .
You know that MPAA and RIAA do n't acknowledge the phenomenon that if someone finds something on the sidewalk , they 're more likely to pick it up than if they find the same thing for sale , even if the price is just a nickel .
I hope that with repeated exposure to the concept , the whole industry will finally concede this point , but let 's just say I 'm not holding my breath .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the average price of a paid application is $3, that is $4.59 billion dollars in losses split between Apple and the application developers.
That is, of course, assuming that all of those pirates would have made purchases had the application not been available to them for free.
This is almost certainly not the case.
A fair estimate of the proportion of people who would have used the App Store if they did not use pirated applications is about 10\%.
This estimate yields about $459 million in lost revenue for Apple and application developers.I think the 10\% figure is completely and totally made up, pulled from the aether, with very little to back it up.
However, I was floored to see that this concept was even addressed at all in the "loss" estimation process.
You know that MPAA and RIAA don't acknowledge the phenomenon that if someone finds something on the sidewalk, they're more likely to pick it up than if they find the same thing for sale, even if the price is just a nickel.
I hope that with repeated exposure to the concept, the whole industry will finally concede this point, but let's just say I'm not holding my breath.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778068</id>
	<title>STFU about Apple for a moment</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263566280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look at the bigger picture. There are hundreds of thousands upon millions of smartphone users out there who want applications for their phones.</p><p>Who is next to set up a viable store? Microsoft? Google? A carrier?</p><p>Piracy is a minor problem. Monetizing users is the major problem. Can you interest users into buying your phone? What sales model can you use to get them to part with their money?</p><p>Who cares about Apple? They are just another player.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look at the bigger picture .
There are hundreds of thousands upon millions of smartphone users out there who want applications for their phones.Who is next to set up a viable store ?
Microsoft ? Google ?
A carrier ? Piracy is a minor problem .
Monetizing users is the major problem .
Can you interest users into buying your phone ?
What sales model can you use to get them to part with their money ? Who cares about Apple ?
They are just another player .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look at the bigger picture.
There are hundreds of thousands upon millions of smartphone users out there who want applications for their phones.Who is next to set up a viable store?
Microsoft? Google?
A carrier?Piracy is a minor problem.
Monetizing users is the major problem.
Can you interest users into buying your phone?
What sales model can you use to get them to part with their money?Who cares about Apple?
They are just another player.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778148</id>
	<title>Is there an app for bullshit?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263566820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I call bullshit.  There's no way that the tiny percentage of jailbroken iPhones could account for 75\% of the apps in use.
</p><p>If this isn't through jailbroken phones, then how are people pirating it?  It's not like anyone has built a homebrew iPhone...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I call bullshit .
There 's no way that the tiny percentage of jailbroken iPhones could account for 75 \ % of the apps in use .
If this is n't through jailbroken phones , then how are people pirating it ?
It 's not like anyone has built a homebrew iPhone.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I call bullshit.
There's no way that the tiny percentage of jailbroken iPhones could account for 75\% of the apps in use.
If this isn't through jailbroken phones, then how are people pirating it?
It's not like anyone has built a homebrew iPhone...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778192</id>
	<title>Losses?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263567000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I love how software companies complain about losses.
They lose out on possible sales.
A loss to me is when you have a physical good. It gets stolen. You have to pay taxes and the people who sold you the materials that make up that good.
Call me crazy but I don't see Walmart / Bestbuy ect in the news constantly about their stolen merchandise. Anyone have comparisons to how much they lose when you compound merchandise, tax liability, security expenses.
I'm pretty sure walmart has full time security monitors and expenses that far exceed Apple's and have to deal with clepto maniacs, senile old people, kids, homeless ect...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I love how software companies complain about losses .
They lose out on possible sales .
A loss to me is when you have a physical good .
It gets stolen .
You have to pay taxes and the people who sold you the materials that make up that good .
Call me crazy but I do n't see Walmart / Bestbuy ect in the news constantly about their stolen merchandise .
Anyone have comparisons to how much they lose when you compound merchandise , tax liability , security expenses .
I 'm pretty sure walmart has full time security monitors and expenses that far exceed Apple 's and have to deal with clepto maniacs , senile old people , kids , homeless ect.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love how software companies complain about losses.
They lose out on possible sales.
A loss to me is when you have a physical good.
It gets stolen.
You have to pay taxes and the people who sold you the materials that make up that good.
Call me crazy but I don't see Walmart / Bestbuy ect in the news constantly about their stolen merchandise.
Anyone have comparisons to how much they lose when you compound merchandise, tax liability, security expenses.
I'm pretty sure walmart has full time security monitors and expenses that far exceed Apple's and have to deal with clepto maniacs, senile old people, kids, homeless ect...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30785226</id>
	<title>Like DVD "region coding"...</title>
	<author>tlambert</author>
	<datestamp>1263556260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Note: Speaking only for myself, here...</p><p>Like DVD "region coding"...</p><p>When an application is available in a given countries App store, it's not necessarily available in every countries App store.  In most cases, in fact, it's not.  So the only way to get the app is to jailbreak your phone, and install it fom one of the pirate installer applications, which only run on jailbroken phones.</p><p>In order to get an account on the US App store, and therefore have access to all the Apps there, you have to establish an account with a US credit card with a US address; the account is fairly easy, but to set up a US billing address on the thing is impossible, unless you are willing to rent a trans-shipping PO Box, or unless you have a friend in the US willing to let you use their physical address as a residence address for the credit card.</p><p>So even if you wanted to pay for the thing, there's no way you could possibly do so, without a huge amount of risk and hassle.</p><p>I imagine most of this "piracy" is down to "people whom we are unwilling to enable to buy the App getting ahold of it despite the obstacles we are placing in their way".</p><p>-- Terry</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Note : Speaking only for myself , here...Like DVD " region coding " ...When an application is available in a given countries App store , it 's not necessarily available in every countries App store .
In most cases , in fact , it 's not .
So the only way to get the app is to jailbreak your phone , and install it fom one of the pirate installer applications , which only run on jailbroken phones.In order to get an account on the US App store , and therefore have access to all the Apps there , you have to establish an account with a US credit card with a US address ; the account is fairly easy , but to set up a US billing address on the thing is impossible , unless you are willing to rent a trans-shipping PO Box , or unless you have a friend in the US willing to let you use their physical address as a residence address for the credit card.So even if you wanted to pay for the thing , there 's no way you could possibly do so , without a huge amount of risk and hassle.I imagine most of this " piracy " is down to " people whom we are unwilling to enable to buy the App getting ahold of it despite the obstacles we are placing in their way " .-- Terry</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Note: Speaking only for myself, here...Like DVD "region coding"...When an application is available in a given countries App store, it's not necessarily available in every countries App store.
In most cases, in fact, it's not.
So the only way to get the app is to jailbreak your phone, and install it fom one of the pirate installer applications, which only run on jailbroken phones.In order to get an account on the US App store, and therefore have access to all the Apps there, you have to establish an account with a US credit card with a US address; the account is fairly easy, but to set up a US billing address on the thing is impossible, unless you are willing to rent a trans-shipping PO Box, or unless you have a friend in the US willing to let you use their physical address as a residence address for the credit card.So even if you wanted to pay for the thing, there's no way you could possibly do so, without a huge amount of risk and hassle.I imagine most of this "piracy" is down to "people whom we are unwilling to enable to buy the App getting ahold of it despite the obstacles we are placing in their way".-- Terry</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778034</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778124</id>
	<title>looking around</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263566700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Looking around I have yet to see a single friend of mine with pirated apps. I'm just saying.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Looking around I have yet to see a single friend of mine with pirated apps .
I 'm just saying .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looking around I have yet to see a single friend of mine with pirated apps.
I'm just saying.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778288</id>
	<title>What about multiple iPhones on the sames account?</title>
	<author>ofdan</author>
	<datestamp>1263567600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have 2 iPhones on the same iTunes account.

Apple legally lets me installs app's bought on my first iPhone for free on my second.
My guess is this would trigger piracy flag, as they would now see 2 iPhone unique ids for one purchase.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have 2 iPhones on the same iTunes account .
Apple legally lets me installs app 's bought on my first iPhone for free on my second .
My guess is this would trigger piracy flag , as they would now see 2 iPhone unique ids for one purchase .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have 2 iPhones on the same iTunes account.
Apple legally lets me installs app's bought on my first iPhone for free on my second.
My guess is this would trigger piracy flag, as they would now see 2 iPhone unique ids for one purchase.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778360</id>
	<title>What about my losses?</title>
	<author>AP31R0N</author>
	<datestamp>1263568080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I sell Bottled Burps on BottledBurps.Biz.  No one is buying because of piracy and it's wiping me out.  People keep burping on their own instead of buying my product.  What people don't realize is that i have bills to pay too. The bottles cost me real money, the labeling machine loan costs real money.  I put a great deal of effort into these burps including research into what makes the loudest and smelliest burp.  Not only that, but this is my passion! I pour my heart out into these belches.  If my sales don't pick up I'm going to have to get a day job and give up my dream.  But in the mean time I might lose my house!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I sell Bottled Burps on BottledBurps.Biz .
No one is buying because of piracy and it 's wiping me out .
People keep burping on their own instead of buying my product .
What people do n't realize is that i have bills to pay too .
The bottles cost me real money , the labeling machine loan costs real money .
I put a great deal of effort into these burps including research into what makes the loudest and smelliest burp .
Not only that , but this is my passion !
I pour my heart out into these belches .
If my sales do n't pick up I 'm going to have to get a day job and give up my dream .
But in the mean time I might lose my house !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I sell Bottled Burps on BottledBurps.Biz.
No one is buying because of piracy and it's wiping me out.
People keep burping on their own instead of buying my product.
What people don't realize is that i have bills to pay too.
The bottles cost me real money, the labeling machine loan costs real money.
I put a great deal of effort into these burps including research into what makes the loudest and smelliest burp.
Not only that, but this is my passion!
I pour my heart out into these belches.
If my sales don't pick up I'm going to have to get a day job and give up my dream.
But in the mean time I might lose my house!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779966</id>
	<title>Re:"Losses"</title>
	<author>delinear</author>
	<datestamp>1263576660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're forgetting pirates don't spend their loot, they store it in big chests in sea caves.</p><p>Seriously though, if I had some points you'd get them - I'm constantly hearing how much piracy costs the UK economy and don't believe that figure (whatever it may actually be) is even close to quantifiable, since it only costs the economy if you then go on to purchase foreign goods/services with that same pot of cash.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're forgetting pirates do n't spend their loot , they store it in big chests in sea caves.Seriously though , if I had some points you 'd get them - I 'm constantly hearing how much piracy costs the UK economy and do n't believe that figure ( whatever it may actually be ) is even close to quantifiable , since it only costs the economy if you then go on to purchase foreign goods/services with that same pot of cash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're forgetting pirates don't spend their loot, they store it in big chests in sea caves.Seriously though, if I had some points you'd get them - I'm constantly hearing how much piracy costs the UK economy and don't believe that figure (whatever it may actually be) is even close to quantifiable, since it only costs the economy if you then go on to purchase foreign goods/services with that same pot of cash.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778462</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778278</id>
	<title>Fun with Statistics</title>
	<author>Chameleon Man</author>
	<datestamp>1263567540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lets assume the number was accurate to the cost of the all the pirated apps...how then can they assume, given the ability to not be able to jailbreak the phone, that the pirate would pay full price for the apps that they would have potentially pirated?<br> <br>
The pirated market is grossly misrepresented. Most pirated movies/music/games are pirated because of availability. If it wasn't available, the pirate still wouldn't pay the original price for it. Recent success in said industries proves this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lets assume the number was accurate to the cost of the all the pirated apps...how then can they assume , given the ability to not be able to jailbreak the phone , that the pirate would pay full price for the apps that they would have potentially pirated ?
The pirated market is grossly misrepresented .
Most pirated movies/music/games are pirated because of availability .
If it was n't available , the pirate still would n't pay the original price for it .
Recent success in said industries proves this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lets assume the number was accurate to the cost of the all the pirated apps...how then can they assume, given the ability to not be able to jailbreak the phone, that the pirate would pay full price for the apps that they would have potentially pirated?
The pirated market is grossly misrepresented.
Most pirated movies/music/games are pirated because of availability.
If it wasn't available, the pirate still wouldn't pay the original price for it.
Recent success in said industries proves this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779134</id>
	<title>Re:Based on how much I pirate...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263572220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> Tom-tom is the only pirated app on my iphone, but with the price point they set I think they were kind of asking for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tom-tom is the only pirated app on my iphone , but with the price point they set I think they were kind of asking for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Tom-tom is the only pirated app on my iphone, but with the price point they set I think they were kind of asking for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778304</id>
	<title>How about refunds?</title>
	<author>HaaPoo</author>
	<datestamp>1263567720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How about refunding apps the people do not use anymore, i am sure there is plenty of those.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about refunding apps the people do not use anymore , i am sure there is plenty of those .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about refunding apps the people do not use anymore, i am sure there is plenty of those.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30780214</id>
	<title>Re:looking around</title>
	<author>jandrese</author>
	<datestamp>1263577800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm still wondering who the heck is going to the trouble to pirate all of these iPhone apps.  Most of them are 1 or 2 dollars.  It's not like it's Autocad or Maya or something where the pricing is clearly out of the league of the dabbling hobbyist.  The online store is ridiculously easy to use too.  I have no desire at all to even consider pirating apps on my phone.<br>
<br>
The thing that's really annoying is that Apple is using this as an excuse to crack down on jailbreaking on the iPhone, which is really annoying because I get a lot of use out of the terminal app on my phone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm still wondering who the heck is going to the trouble to pirate all of these iPhone apps .
Most of them are 1 or 2 dollars .
It 's not like it 's Autocad or Maya or something where the pricing is clearly out of the league of the dabbling hobbyist .
The online store is ridiculously easy to use too .
I have no desire at all to even consider pirating apps on my phone .
The thing that 's really annoying is that Apple is using this as an excuse to crack down on jailbreaking on the iPhone , which is really annoying because I get a lot of use out of the terminal app on my phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm still wondering who the heck is going to the trouble to pirate all of these iPhone apps.
Most of them are 1 or 2 dollars.
It's not like it's Autocad or Maya or something where the pricing is clearly out of the league of the dabbling hobbyist.
The online store is ridiculously easy to use too.
I have no desire at all to even consider pirating apps on my phone.
The thing that's really annoying is that Apple is using this as an excuse to crack down on jailbreaking on the iPhone, which is really annoying because I get a lot of use out of the terminal app on my phone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778124</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778502</id>
	<title>10000 apps $3 each</title>
	<author>SharpFang</author>
	<datestamp>1263568800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So if I download a torrent<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.zip of 10,000 paid apps, $3 each on the average, AppStore just lost $30,000 in sales?<br>Like, I would purchase them all otherwise?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So if I download a torrent .zip of 10,000 paid apps , $ 3 each on the average , AppStore just lost $ 30,000 in sales ? Like , I would purchase them all otherwise ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So if I download a torrent .zip of 10,000 paid apps, $3 each on the average, AppStore just lost $30,000 in sales?Like, I would purchase them all otherwise?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30782714</id>
	<title>Re:'Losses'</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263587940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Concur.  If there was no investment of money to begin with, money wasn't lost.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Concur .
If there was no investment of money to begin with , money was n't lost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Concur.
If there was no investment of money to begin with, money wasn't lost.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778034</id>
	<title>How does it work?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263566040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm curious as exactly how piracy on the iPhone/iTouch works.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm curious as exactly how piracy on the iPhone/iTouch works .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm curious as exactly how piracy on the iPhone/iTouch works.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30788784</id>
	<title>Bullshit dissected</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263637260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's a great detailed analysis of the figures here by a professional videogames writer:</p><p>http://wosblog.wordpress.com/2010/01/15/the-most-spurious-piracy-figures-ever/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a great detailed analysis of the figures here by a professional videogames writer : http : //wosblog.wordpress.com/2010/01/15/the-most-spurious-piracy-figures-ever/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a great detailed analysis of the figures here by a professional videogames writer:http://wosblog.wordpress.com/2010/01/15/the-most-spurious-piracy-figures-ever/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779082</id>
	<title>Re:10000 apps $3 each</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263571860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fucking stupid arguement that kids always make. You might not have purchased all of them, but youd likely purchase SOME of them.</p><p>If someone buys an xbox360 and pirates 50 games in a year, sure they wouldn't maybe have purchased 50 games, but maybe they would have purchased 2 or 3. Thats 2 or 3 * 60$ lost for that one consumer.</p><p>Dipshit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fucking stupid arguement that kids always make .
You might not have purchased all of them , but youd likely purchase SOME of them.If someone buys an xbox360 and pirates 50 games in a year , sure they would n't maybe have purchased 50 games , but maybe they would have purchased 2 or 3 .
Thats 2 or 3 * 60 $ lost for that one consumer.Dipshit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fucking stupid arguement that kids always make.
You might not have purchased all of them, but youd likely purchase SOME of them.If someone buys an xbox360 and pirates 50 games in a year, sure they wouldn't maybe have purchased 50 games, but maybe they would have purchased 2 or 3.
Thats 2 or 3 * 60$ lost for that one consumer.Dipshit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779068</id>
	<title>I'm Confused</title>
	<author>Tim C</author>
	<datestamp>1263571800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since when was failing to gain something the same as losing it?</p><p>No-one has actually lost $459 million (= had it once, don't have it now), they just haven't gained it. If they've lost anything, it's the opportunity to gain the money, which is a rather different thing...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since when was failing to gain something the same as losing it ? No-one has actually lost $ 459 million ( = had it once , do n't have it now ) , they just have n't gained it .
If they 've lost anything , it 's the opportunity to gain the money , which is a rather different thing.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since when was failing to gain something the same as losing it?No-one has actually lost $459 million (= had it once, don't have it now), they just haven't gained it.
If they've lost anything, it's the opportunity to gain the money, which is a rather different thing...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778678</id>
	<title>Re:looking around</title>
	<author>icebraining</author>
	<datestamp>1263569700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think he was talking about iphone apps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think he was talking about iphone apps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think he was talking about iphone apps.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778494</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778730</id>
	<title>Re:Is there an app for bullshit?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263569880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The numbers are probably not close to the true value but I've read cases where 50\% of the users of some apps are people who pirated the app within the first few weeks of it being released.  Some apps rely on a back-end infrastructure and having to support the load of people who haven't paid for the app cuts into your profit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The numbers are probably not close to the true value but I 've read cases where 50 \ % of the users of some apps are people who pirated the app within the first few weeks of it being released .
Some apps rely on a back-end infrastructure and having to support the load of people who have n't paid for the app cuts into your profit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The numbers are probably not close to the true value but I've read cases where 50\% of the users of some apps are people who pirated the app within the first few weeks of it being released.
Some apps rely on a back-end infrastructure and having to support the load of people who haven't paid for the app cuts into your profit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778182</id>
	<title>Based on how much I pirate...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263567000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have an jailbroken and unlocked iPhone, but I haven't even tried to pirate apps from the app store. Frankly, I didn't know it was possible. In the past I have pirated almost everything. I just dont see the benefit of piracy to save $5 especially since it's probably a p.i.t.a to pirate an app store app. These figures look like hot air to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have an jailbroken and unlocked iPhone , but I have n't even tried to pirate apps from the app store .
Frankly , I did n't know it was possible .
In the past I have pirated almost everything .
I just dont see the benefit of piracy to save $ 5 especially since it 's probably a p.i.t.a to pirate an app store app .
These figures look like hot air to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have an jailbroken and unlocked iPhone, but I haven't even tried to pirate apps from the app store.
Frankly, I didn't know it was possible.
In the past I have pirated almost everything.
I just dont see the benefit of piracy to save $5 especially since it's probably a p.i.t.a to pirate an app store app.
These figures look like hot air to me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778286</id>
	<title>phony claims</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263567600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yet someone else regurgitating the music industry's same old, tired, phony claims and bogus madeup numbers about "losses".<br>Just because someone doesn't buy, doesn't make it a loss.  It could be a 100\% piracy rate, and it still wouldn't matter, because the vast majority wouldn't have purchased anything anyway, so there is no loss.</p><p>And yet more writeups that show how stupid these phony claims and their madeup numbers are:<br><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100113/1434217734.shtml" title="techdirt.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100113/1434217734.shtml</a> [techdirt.com]<br><a href="http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/450-million-iphone-piracy-figure-not-grounded-in-reality.ars" title="arstechnica.com" rel="nofollow">http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/450-million-iphone-piracy-figure-not-grounded-in-reality.ars</a> [arstechnica.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yet someone else regurgitating the music industry 's same old , tired , phony claims and bogus madeup numbers about " losses " .Just because someone does n't buy , does n't make it a loss .
It could be a 100 \ % piracy rate , and it still would n't matter , because the vast majority would n't have purchased anything anyway , so there is no loss.And yet more writeups that show how stupid these phony claims and their madeup numbers are : http : //www.techdirt.com/articles/20100113/1434217734.shtml [ techdirt.com ] http : //arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/450-million-iphone-piracy-figure-not-grounded-in-reality.ars [ arstechnica.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yet someone else regurgitating the music industry's same old, tired, phony claims and bogus madeup numbers about "losses".Just because someone doesn't buy, doesn't make it a loss.
It could be a 100\% piracy rate, and it still wouldn't matter, because the vast majority wouldn't have purchased anything anyway, so there is no loss.And yet more writeups that show how stupid these phony claims and their madeup numbers are:http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100113/1434217734.shtml [techdirt.com]http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/450-million-iphone-piracy-figure-not-grounded-in-reality.ars [arstechnica.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778462</id>
	<title>"Losses"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263568620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These losses from piracy are always talked about in terms of the damage they do to the economy, but I have to take issue with this; that money that isn't spent on pirated apps doesn't just vanish, it's still there to be spent on other things. Now, you might argue that maybe it won't be spent or will be spent on things that transfer money out of the economy (such as overseas businesses), but if you're spending money on the App store and don't live in the US then that's really the case anyway.</p><p>If I pirate a $10 app, that's $10 I can spend on a CD or going to the cinema or getting a takeaway or whatever, it's not $10 that magically disappears from circulation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These losses from piracy are always talked about in terms of the damage they do to the economy , but I have to take issue with this ; that money that is n't spent on pirated apps does n't just vanish , it 's still there to be spent on other things .
Now , you might argue that maybe it wo n't be spent or will be spent on things that transfer money out of the economy ( such as overseas businesses ) , but if you 're spending money on the App store and do n't live in the US then that 's really the case anyway.If I pirate a $ 10 app , that 's $ 10 I can spend on a CD or going to the cinema or getting a takeaway or whatever , it 's not $ 10 that magically disappears from circulation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These losses from piracy are always talked about in terms of the damage they do to the economy, but I have to take issue with this; that money that isn't spent on pirated apps doesn't just vanish, it's still there to be spent on other things.
Now, you might argue that maybe it won't be spent or will be spent on things that transfer money out of the economy (such as overseas businesses), but if you're spending money on the App store and don't live in the US then that's really the case anyway.If I pirate a $10 app, that's $10 I can spend on a CD or going to the cinema or getting a takeaway or whatever, it's not $10 that magically disappears from circulation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778262</id>
	<title>Pretty big assumption...</title>
	<author>lightblade</author>
	<datestamp>1263567480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Their figures assume that the users of the pirated software would have even bought them had they not been able to get them for free.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Their figures assume that the users of the pirated software would have even bought them had they not been able to get them for free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Their figures assume that the users of the pirated software would have even bought them had they not been able to get them for free.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779702</id>
	<title>Re:'Losses'</title>
	<author>SonicTheDeadFrog</author>
	<datestamp>1263575280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Holy crap!  I'm getting ripped off and I didn't even know it - I too am out a billion dollars now!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Holy crap !
I 'm getting ripped off and I did n't even know it - I too am out a billion dollars now !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Holy crap!
I'm getting ripped off and I didn't even know it - I too am out a billion dollars now!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779414</id>
	<title>Re:10000 apps $3 each</title>
	<author>maccodemonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1263573840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>$30,000 in potential sales was lost, yes. Even if the potential was slim.</p><p>More importantly, though, if the app uses bandwidth from a server, or if you get support, you have caused real monitary damage by using things you haven't paid for. I have an app on the app store, and people who pirate cause significant amounts of damage by steal our bandwidth from our partners that we paid a lot of money for, and we pay per access.</p><p>If there was a way we could lock out those services to paying customers only, we would, but we can't. App store doesn't give us that data.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>$ 30,000 in potential sales was lost , yes .
Even if the potential was slim.More importantly , though , if the app uses bandwidth from a server , or if you get support , you have caused real monitary damage by using things you have n't paid for .
I have an app on the app store , and people who pirate cause significant amounts of damage by steal our bandwidth from our partners that we paid a lot of money for , and we pay per access.If there was a way we could lock out those services to paying customers only , we would , but we ca n't .
App store does n't give us that data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>$30,000 in potential sales was lost, yes.
Even if the potential was slim.More importantly, though, if the app uses bandwidth from a server, or if you get support, you have caused real monitary damage by using things you haven't paid for.
I have an app on the app store, and people who pirate cause significant amounts of damage by steal our bandwidth from our partners that we paid a lot of money for, and we pay per access.If there was a way we could lock out those services to paying customers only, we would, but we can't.
App store doesn't give us that data.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778502</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778252</id>
	<title>Same bs stats, diff software</title>
	<author>Fatal0E</author>
	<datestamp>1263567420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The takedown @ Mashable is spot on!</p><p>Jokes about fart machine apps aside, are these devs really "losing" money everytime their apps are downloaded and not paid for?  Or are they just not seeing the dollar they would otherwise have rec'd?  Its the same bs we see with all piracy stories except for the fact that we're talking about a single publisher instead of a wider sw industry.</p><p>What I'd -really- like to know is what percentage of all phones and touches do jailbroken phones actually represent?  Of those, how many are actually pirating apps?  AND!  Of those pirated apps, how many actually survive on ppl's devices for more then a day or three?  I think those questions would make for a -much- more compelling App Store piracy story then this mental fart of a statistical analysis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The takedown @ Mashable is spot on ! Jokes about fart machine apps aside , are these devs really " losing " money everytime their apps are downloaded and not paid for ?
Or are they just not seeing the dollar they would otherwise have rec 'd ?
Its the same bs we see with all piracy stories except for the fact that we 're talking about a single publisher instead of a wider sw industry.What I 'd -really- like to know is what percentage of all phones and touches do jailbroken phones actually represent ?
Of those , how many are actually pirating apps ?
AND ! Of those pirated apps , how many actually survive on ppl 's devices for more then a day or three ?
I think those questions would make for a -much- more compelling App Store piracy story then this mental fart of a statistical analysis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The takedown @ Mashable is spot on!Jokes about fart machine apps aside, are these devs really "losing" money everytime their apps are downloaded and not paid for?
Or are they just not seeing the dollar they would otherwise have rec'd?
Its the same bs we see with all piracy stories except for the fact that we're talking about a single publisher instead of a wider sw industry.What I'd -really- like to know is what percentage of all phones and touches do jailbroken phones actually represent?
Of those, how many are actually pirating apps?
AND!  Of those pirated apps, how many actually survive on ppl's devices for more then a day or three?
I think those questions would make for a -much- more compelling App Store piracy story then this mental fart of a statistical analysis.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778874</id>
	<title>And the Earth is moving faster around the sun</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1263570720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Simply put, no money was lost due to piracy.  Stop putting these retarded articles on slashdot, all you do is justify the morons who write this crap.</p><p>Statistics have shown that I've lost about 30 billion dollars while reading retarded articles about piracy.  Interestingly enough, another set of statistics shows that both myself and the guys writing about how much money is lost to piracy have about the same ability to talk out our asses and lie through our teeth.  I have a slightly higher amount of sarcasm.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Simply put , no money was lost due to piracy .
Stop putting these retarded articles on slashdot , all you do is justify the morons who write this crap.Statistics have shown that I 've lost about 30 billion dollars while reading retarded articles about piracy .
Interestingly enough , another set of statistics shows that both myself and the guys writing about how much money is lost to piracy have about the same ability to talk out our asses and lie through our teeth .
I have a slightly higher amount of sarcasm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Simply put, no money was lost due to piracy.
Stop putting these retarded articles on slashdot, all you do is justify the morons who write this crap.Statistics have shown that I've lost about 30 billion dollars while reading retarded articles about piracy.
Interestingly enough, another set of statistics shows that both myself and the guys writing about how much money is lost to piracy have about the same ability to talk out our asses and lie through our teeth.
I have a slightly higher amount of sarcasm.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778056</id>
	<title>Who decided that ten percent is fair?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263566160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd guess it's closer to 1\%. In free-to-play online games, that's the average percentage of players that use the game stores to buy stuff with real life money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd guess it 's closer to 1 \ % .
In free-to-play online games , that 's the average percentage of players that use the game stores to buy stuff with real life money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd guess it's closer to 1\%.
In free-to-play online games, that's the average percentage of players that use the game stores to buy stuff with real life money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779376</id>
	<title>Re:How does it work?</title>
	<author>PsyciatricHelp</author>
	<datestamp>1263573600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are many torrent that offer many DRM free or cracked ipa files. You just drop them into itunes and they copy over like a regular app. I for one use a few that I have purchased in the past but for one crash or another no longer have. Though  if you could get the full version of most apps on a trial basis I would be more inclined to buy some. I hate the fact that about 90\% of the apps I download turn out to be utter crap.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are many torrent that offer many DRM free or cracked ipa files .
You just drop them into itunes and they copy over like a regular app .
I for one use a few that I have purchased in the past but for one crash or another no longer have .
Though if you could get the full version of most apps on a trial basis I would be more inclined to buy some .
I hate the fact that about 90 \ % of the apps I download turn out to be utter crap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are many torrent that offer many DRM free or cracked ipa files.
You just drop them into itunes and they copy over like a regular app.
I for one use a few that I have purchased in the past but for one crash or another no longer have.
Though  if you could get the full version of most apps on a trial basis I would be more inclined to buy some.
I hate the fact that about 90\% of the apps I download turn out to be utter crap.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778938</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778154</id>
	<title>In other news.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263566880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Big made up number is still made up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Big made up number is still made up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Big made up number is still made up.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779562</id>
	<title>Re:STFU about Apple for a moment</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263574440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I were to monetize a game application store, it'd have physical cartridges, like the Nintendo entertainment system. I'd love to know what the piracy rate was back then as opposed to good 'ol regular theft.</p><p>I agree, people will always figure out a way to steal (not pay) for your shit. Figure out a way that makes them want to pay.</p><p>If that seems idealistic, then how do charities exist? Churches? Governments?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I were to monetize a game application store , it 'd have physical cartridges , like the Nintendo entertainment system .
I 'd love to know what the piracy rate was back then as opposed to good 'ol regular theft.I agree , people will always figure out a way to steal ( not pay ) for your shit .
Figure out a way that makes them want to pay.If that seems idealistic , then how do charities exist ?
Churches ? Governments ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I were to monetize a game application store, it'd have physical cartridges, like the Nintendo entertainment system.
I'd love to know what the piracy rate was back then as opposed to good 'ol regular theft.I agree, people will always figure out a way to steal (not pay) for your shit.
Figure out a way that makes them want to pay.If that seems idealistic, then how do charities exist?
Churches? Governments?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778068</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30781116</id>
	<title>Re:Is there an app for bullshit?</title>
	<author>jo42</author>
	<datestamp>1263581340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I refuse to pay any amount of money for a stupid iPhone/Touch application. It's a goddamn PHONE/TOY.</p></div><p>This "stupid" "PHONE/TOY" has more computing power, features and graphics capability than a top of the line desktop did 10 years go. Fumbducktard.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I refuse to pay any amount of money for a stupid iPhone/Touch application .
It 's a goddamn PHONE/TOY.This " stupid " " PHONE/TOY " has more computing power , features and graphics capability than a top of the line desktop did 10 years go .
Fumbducktard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I refuse to pay any amount of money for a stupid iPhone/Touch application.
It's a goddamn PHONE/TOY.This "stupid" "PHONE/TOY" has more computing power, features and graphics capability than a top of the line desktop did 10 years go.
Fumbducktard.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778616</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779608</id>
	<title>Re:'Losses'</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1263574800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>AND they Pirated my Wife!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>AND they Pirated my Wife !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AND they Pirated my Wife!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30782226</id>
	<title>Re:How does it work?</title>
	<author>Smurf</author>
	<datestamp>1263585780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There are many torrent that offer many DRM free or cracked ipa files. You just drop them into itunes and they copy over like a regular app.<br>NO jailbreaking necessary</p></div><p>OK, but what you are saying implies that all the criticism about Apple having a monopoly over the App Store, and all the complaints from developers when their apps get rejected by Apple, are unfounded. The developers could just produce a "modified" ipa file for their app (just as the crackers do), sell it on their own website (just as Windows and Mac developers do for their applications) and simply instruct the users to drop the file into iTunes.</p><p>And yet the developers don't do that. Some of them offer their rejected apps (usually for free) through Cydia, but that requieres jailbraking the phone so it's not a popular alternative.</p><p>It seems to me you are missing something.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are many torrent that offer many DRM free or cracked ipa files .
You just drop them into itunes and they copy over like a regular app.NO jailbreaking necessaryOK , but what you are saying implies that all the criticism about Apple having a monopoly over the App Store , and all the complaints from developers when their apps get rejected by Apple , are unfounded .
The developers could just produce a " modified " ipa file for their app ( just as the crackers do ) , sell it on their own website ( just as Windows and Mac developers do for their applications ) and simply instruct the users to drop the file into iTunes.And yet the developers do n't do that .
Some of them offer their rejected apps ( usually for free ) through Cydia , but that requieres jailbraking the phone so it 's not a popular alternative.It seems to me you are missing something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are many torrent that offer many DRM free or cracked ipa files.
You just drop them into itunes and they copy over like a regular app.NO jailbreaking necessaryOK, but what you are saying implies that all the criticism about Apple having a monopoly over the App Store, and all the complaints from developers when their apps get rejected by Apple, are unfounded.
The developers could just produce a "modified" ipa file for their app (just as the crackers do), sell it on their own website (just as Windows and Mac developers do for their applications) and simply instruct the users to drop the file into iTunes.And yet the developers don't do that.
Some of them offer their rejected apps (usually for free) through Cydia, but that requieres jailbraking the phone so it's not a popular alternative.It seems to me you are missing something.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778248</id>
	<title>Guesstimations...</title>
	<author>alexhs</author>
	<datestamp>1263567420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm pretty sure that by tweaking a little their formula and figures, we can compute the probability of the article's authors to get laid with an alien life form.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm pretty sure that by tweaking a little their formula and figures , we can compute the probability of the article 's authors to get laid with an alien life form .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm pretty sure that by tweaking a little their formula and figures, we can compute the probability of the article's authors to get laid with an alien life form.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779456</id>
	<title>Re:'Losses'</title>
	<author>couchslug</author>
	<datestamp>1263574020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I'm suffering massive losses too - nobody gave a billion dollars yesterday! That's a billion dollar loss in a single day!"</p><p>I'm being deprived of sex because other people are getting laid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I 'm suffering massive losses too - nobody gave a billion dollars yesterday !
That 's a billion dollar loss in a single day !
" I 'm being deprived of sex because other people are getting laid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I'm suffering massive losses too - nobody gave a billion dollars yesterday!
That's a billion dollar loss in a single day!
"I'm being deprived of sex because other people are getting laid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778108</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778338</id>
	<title>Techdirt: Bogus Analysis. Rebuttal, with xkcd!</title>
	<author>mmurphy000</author>
	<datestamp>1263567900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100113/1434217734.shtml" title="techdirt.com">Techdirt did a nice deconstruction</a> [techdirt.com] of the 24/7 Wall Street analysis. In a nutshell, 24/7 Wall Street applied the Drake Equation to iPhone apps, piling on layers of hand-waving to come up with their figure.</p><p>And, to show off his geek cred, Techdirt's Mike Masnick included the <a href="http://xkcd.com/384/" title="xkcd.com">xkcd Drake Equation comic</a> [xkcd.com].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Techdirt did a nice deconstruction [ techdirt.com ] of the 24/7 Wall Street analysis .
In a nutshell , 24/7 Wall Street applied the Drake Equation to iPhone apps , piling on layers of hand-waving to come up with their figure.And , to show off his geek cred , Techdirt 's Mike Masnick included the xkcd Drake Equation comic [ xkcd.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Techdirt did a nice deconstruction [techdirt.com] of the 24/7 Wall Street analysis.
In a nutshell, 24/7 Wall Street applied the Drake Equation to iPhone apps, piling on layers of hand-waving to come up with their figure.And, to show off his geek cred, Techdirt's Mike Masnick included the xkcd Drake Equation comic [xkcd.com].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30779436</id>
	<title>Re:STFU about Apple for a moment</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263573900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real story here is that they offer up a very very easy way to download, install, and use and app for a very low price point. The price point it pushed at people who have a large chuck of income that they use toward a phone experience. I seriously doubt someone that pays 100 bucks a month to have a functioning Iphone is going to waste time trying to steal a 99 cent app.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real story here is that they offer up a very very easy way to download , install , and use and app for a very low price point .
The price point it pushed at people who have a large chuck of income that they use toward a phone experience .
I seriously doubt someone that pays 100 bucks a month to have a functioning Iphone is going to waste time trying to steal a 99 cent app .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real story here is that they offer up a very very easy way to download, install, and use and app for a very low price point.
The price point it pushed at people who have a large chuck of income that they use toward a phone experience.
I seriously doubt someone that pays 100 bucks a month to have a functioning Iphone is going to waste time trying to steal a 99 cent app.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_15_0810230.30778068</parent>
</comment>
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