<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_14_0312257</id>
	<title>Challenge To US Government Over Seized Laptops</title>
	<author>samzenpus</author>
	<datestamp>1263473820000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/" rel="nofollow">angry tapir</a> writes <i>"The policy of random laptop searches and seizures by US government agents at border crossings is under attack again: The American Civil Liberties Union is working with the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers to <a href="http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/332474">find lawyers whose laptops or other electronic devices were searched</a> at US points of entry and exit. The groups argue that the practice of suspicionless laptop searches violates fundamental rights of freedom of speech and protection against unreasonable seizures and searches."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>angry tapir writes " The policy of random laptop searches and seizures by US government agents at border crossings is under attack again : The American Civil Liberties Union is working with the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers to find lawyers whose laptops or other electronic devices were searched at US points of entry and exit .
The groups argue that the practice of suspicionless laptop searches violates fundamental rights of freedom of speech and protection against unreasonable seizures and searches .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>angry tapir writes "The policy of random laptop searches and seizures by US government agents at border crossings is under attack again: The American Civil Liberties Union is working with the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers to find lawyers whose laptops or other electronic devices were searched at US points of entry and exit.
The groups argue that the practice of suspicionless laptop searches violates fundamental rights of freedom of speech and protection against unreasonable seizures and searches.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30764648</id>
	<title>Talk at Shmoocon</title>
	<author>tdc\_vga</author>
	<datestamp>1263486480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>IAAL and here's a <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1692129062873726062" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">presentation</a> [google.com] I gave at ShmooCon and DefCon last year entitled "They Took My Laptop! - 4th and 5th Amendment Explained."  The Defcon video isn't available yet, unfortunately, since the content is more up to date.  The video goes into a decent amount of depth on the current body of laws in regards to laptop seizures.  Anyway, thought it might be of use.
<br> <br>
Cheers,<br>
  T</htmltext>
<tokenext>IAAL and here 's a presentation [ google.com ] I gave at ShmooCon and DefCon last year entitled " They Took My Laptop !
- 4th and 5th Amendment Explained .
" The Defcon video is n't available yet , unfortunately , since the content is more up to date .
The video goes into a decent amount of depth on the current body of laws in regards to laptop seizures .
Anyway , thought it might be of use .
Cheers , T</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IAAL and here's a presentation [google.com] I gave at ShmooCon and DefCon last year entitled "They Took My Laptop!
- 4th and 5th Amendment Explained.
"  The Defcon video isn't available yet, unfortunately, since the content is more up to date.
The video goes into a decent amount of depth on the current body of laws in regards to laptop seizures.
Anyway, thought it might be of use.
Cheers,
  T</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30764748</id>
	<title>constitutional protections</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263486780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not a lawyer, but when you are going through customs you aren't technically in the US yet because you are in the process of entering the US.  thus you don't have your normal constitutional protections (4th amendment).  you have whatever rights they feel like giving you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not a lawyer , but when you are going through customs you are n't technically in the US yet because you are in the process of entering the US .
thus you do n't have your normal constitutional protections ( 4th amendment ) .
you have whatever rights they feel like giving you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not a lawyer, but when you are going through customs you aren't technically in the US yet because you are in the process of entering the US.
thus you don't have your normal constitutional protections (4th amendment).
you have whatever rights they feel like giving you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30764452</id>
	<title>Always make sure to have a  goatsee folder</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263485940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My laptop always have a folder full of goat-see picture and naked obsesses people right on the desktop named confidential do not look.<br>That way if they take my laptop the have to suffer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My laptop always have a folder full of goat-see picture and naked obsesses people right on the desktop named confidential do not look.That way if they take my laptop the have to suffer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My laptop always have a folder full of goat-see picture and naked obsesses people right on the desktop named confidential do not look.That way if they take my laptop the have to suffer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30769744</id>
	<title>Re:You don't have those rights at border crossings</title>
	<author>calmofthestorm</author>
	<datestamp>1263459840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am in a similar position (except I live in the US) and I'd say just go for it. Your data is irreplaceable so back it up. Your computer isn't. It's expensive.</p><p>Option B: Get a $200 eepc, take that to the conference</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am in a similar position ( except I live in the US ) and I 'd say just go for it .
Your data is irreplaceable so back it up .
Your computer is n't .
It 's expensive.Option B : Get a $ 200 eepc , take that to the conference</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am in a similar position (except I live in the US) and I'd say just go for it.
Your data is irreplaceable so back it up.
Your computer isn't.
It's expensive.Option B: Get a $200 eepc, take that to the conference</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763162</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763280</id>
	<title>Re:You don't have those rights at border crossings</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1263480360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's an interesting one for you: I work in IT forensics and malware research. Thus I tend to have a few exploits on my laptop, very alive and ready to strike. Especially when I go to a convention in the US and plan to use them for a speech. Many of those things are POCs that can by their very nature not be detected by any common anti malware program, because they exist exactly once, on my laptop.</p><p>How high would you estimate the chance that...</p><p>1) Some dufus border cop has nothing better to do than to start one of those babies outside a sandbox?<br>2) Or execute them while attaching the laptop to a government network?<br>3) Or copying it, handing it to whoever handles forensics for them and him executing it on a network?<br>4) Me getting blamed for the ensuing damage?</p><p>There is a very good reason I encrypt everything on my laptop every time I have to travel to the US. So far I have been lucky and was never asked to decrypt it...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's an interesting one for you : I work in IT forensics and malware research .
Thus I tend to have a few exploits on my laptop , very alive and ready to strike .
Especially when I go to a convention in the US and plan to use them for a speech .
Many of those things are POCs that can by their very nature not be detected by any common anti malware program , because they exist exactly once , on my laptop.How high would you estimate the chance that...1 ) Some dufus border cop has nothing better to do than to start one of those babies outside a sandbox ? 2 ) Or execute them while attaching the laptop to a government network ? 3 ) Or copying it , handing it to whoever handles forensics for them and him executing it on a network ? 4 ) Me getting blamed for the ensuing damage ? There is a very good reason I encrypt everything on my laptop every time I have to travel to the US .
So far I have been lucky and was never asked to decrypt it.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's an interesting one for you: I work in IT forensics and malware research.
Thus I tend to have a few exploits on my laptop, very alive and ready to strike.
Especially when I go to a convention in the US and plan to use them for a speech.
Many of those things are POCs that can by their very nature not be detected by any common anti malware program, because they exist exactly once, on my laptop.How high would you estimate the chance that...1) Some dufus border cop has nothing better to do than to start one of those babies outside a sandbox?2) Or execute them while attaching the laptop to a government network?3) Or copying it, handing it to whoever handles forensics for them and him executing it on a network?4) Me getting blamed for the ensuing damage?There is a very good reason I encrypt everything on my laptop every time I have to travel to the US.
So far I have been lucky and was never asked to decrypt it...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763162</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763332</id>
	<title>They should improve the system</title>
	<author>jonwil</author>
	<datestamp>1263480660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are a few simple ways they can improve the system (and answer some of the criticism) without compromising national security one bit.</p><p>The easiest step they could take would be that anytime they take an item, they have to give you a receipt for it. A simple bit of paper that lists all the items they are taking, doesn't need to say why, just that it was taken by customs and which agent took it and the date and time it was taken.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are a few simple ways they can improve the system ( and answer some of the criticism ) without compromising national security one bit.The easiest step they could take would be that anytime they take an item , they have to give you a receipt for it .
A simple bit of paper that lists all the items they are taking , does n't need to say why , just that it was taken by customs and which agent took it and the date and time it was taken .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are a few simple ways they can improve the system (and answer some of the criticism) without compromising national security one bit.The easiest step they could take would be that anytime they take an item, they have to give you a receipt for it.
A simple bit of paper that lists all the items they are taking, doesn't need to say why, just that it was taken by customs and which agent took it and the date and time it was taken.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763146</id>
	<title>Infernal Gateways</title>
	<author>scorpivs</author>
	<datestamp>1263479460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I read somewhere (Dante, I suppose) that there exixt special accomodations for lawyers and the like.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I read somewhere ( Dante , I suppose ) that there exixt special accomodations for lawyers and the like .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read somewhere (Dante, I suppose) that there exixt special accomodations for lawyers and the like.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30771776</id>
	<title>Re:Use Anti-Search Wallpaper!</title>
	<author>rantingkitten</author>
	<datestamp>1263467640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>What I want is something that comes up and looks like a Windows bluescreen and only allows you access after typing a password (no prompt) within a specific period of time.  I'm sure that could be done with some cleverness to the grub menu, but I'm not clever enough to do it.<br>
<br>
That way, some clown wants to inspect your laptop, you can say "Well, the stupid thing's broken, but sure, here you go."  Agent boots the machine and as far as he can tell, he gets the usual Windows bluescreen.  I can't imagine anyone caring enough about your crashy computer to bother investigating further.  Idly whine a little bit (don't go overboard) about how you don't know how you're going to get your TPS reports back and you sure hope your computer genius neighbor can fix it for added effect.
<br> <br>
Hell, most of them have probably had to go through something similar and know how annoying it is when Windows screws up, so you might even get some sympathy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What I want is something that comes up and looks like a Windows bluescreen and only allows you access after typing a password ( no prompt ) within a specific period of time .
I 'm sure that could be done with some cleverness to the grub menu , but I 'm not clever enough to do it .
That way , some clown wants to inspect your laptop , you can say " Well , the stupid thing 's broken , but sure , here you go .
" Agent boots the machine and as far as he can tell , he gets the usual Windows bluescreen .
I ca n't imagine anyone caring enough about your crashy computer to bother investigating further .
Idly whine a little bit ( do n't go overboard ) about how you do n't know how you 're going to get your TPS reports back and you sure hope your computer genius neighbor can fix it for added effect .
Hell , most of them have probably had to go through something similar and know how annoying it is when Windows screws up , so you might even get some sympathy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I want is something that comes up and looks like a Windows bluescreen and only allows you access after typing a password (no prompt) within a specific period of time.
I'm sure that could be done with some cleverness to the grub menu, but I'm not clever enough to do it.
That way, some clown wants to inspect your laptop, you can say "Well, the stupid thing's broken, but sure, here you go.
"  Agent boots the machine and as far as he can tell, he gets the usual Windows bluescreen.
I can't imagine anyone caring enough about your crashy computer to bother investigating further.
Idly whine a little bit (don't go overboard) about how you don't know how you're going to get your TPS reports back and you sure hope your computer genius neighbor can fix it for added effect.
Hell, most of them have probably had to go through something similar and know how annoying it is when Windows screws up, so you might even get some sympathy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30764316</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30764316</id>
	<title>Use Anti-Search Wallpaper!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263485520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think everyone entering the US with a laptop should have a wallpaper saying something to the effect of "If I was going to import CONTRABAND I would use the INTERNET, not my LAPTOP."<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think everyone entering the US with a laptop should have a wallpaper saying something to the effect of " If I was going to import CONTRABAND I would use the INTERNET , not my LAPTOP .
" : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think everyone entering the US with a laptop should have a wallpaper saying something to the effect of "If I was going to import CONTRABAND I would use the INTERNET, not my LAPTOP.
" :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30766346</id>
	<title>Re:You don't have those rights at border crossings</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263491880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My brother works in Europe, but visits the US regularly.</p><p>His company will not allow him to take his laptop to the US (following incidents where other employees laptops we seized), so he now keeps a second laptop in the US for use while he's there and transfers data on flash drives (encrypted of course).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My brother works in Europe , but visits the US regularly.His company will not allow him to take his laptop to the US ( following incidents where other employees laptops we seized ) , so he now keeps a second laptop in the US for use while he 's there and transfers data on flash drives ( encrypted of course ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My brother works in Europe, but visits the US regularly.His company will not allow him to take his laptop to the US (following incidents where other employees laptops we seized), so he now keeps a second laptop in the US for use while he's there and transfers data on flash drives (encrypted of course).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763162</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763056</id>
	<title>Attorney Client Privilege</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263478620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would imagine that any search of a lawyer's laptop could potentially violate attorney-client privilege.  That may be one reason why they are looking for lawyers as plaintiffs.  If the searches are voided on attorney's for any reason then the equal protection clause might take effect and void them for others as well.</p><p>I'm just randomly speculating and no IANAL.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would imagine that any search of a lawyer 's laptop could potentially violate attorney-client privilege .
That may be one reason why they are looking for lawyers as plaintiffs .
If the searches are voided on attorney 's for any reason then the equal protection clause might take effect and void them for others as well.I 'm just randomly speculating and no IANAL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would imagine that any search of a lawyer's laptop could potentially violate attorney-client privilege.
That may be one reason why they are looking for lawyers as plaintiffs.
If the searches are voided on attorney's for any reason then the equal protection clause might take effect and void them for others as well.I'm just randomly speculating and no IANAL.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30766496</id>
	<title>Re:Seizure and privacy are the key</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1263492420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm going to go farther and say this isn't just a privacy issue, if they are taking your laptop for no good reason, and keeping it, that is outright stealing.  That is real theft.  We have real laws about theft, and they are not controversial to anyone: don't steal, that is the law.  If they are taking people's laptops, they better have a good reason for it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm going to go farther and say this is n't just a privacy issue , if they are taking your laptop for no good reason , and keeping it , that is outright stealing .
That is real theft .
We have real laws about theft , and they are not controversial to anyone : do n't steal , that is the law .
If they are taking people 's laptops , they better have a good reason for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm going to go farther and say this isn't just a privacy issue, if they are taking your laptop for no good reason, and keeping it, that is outright stealing.
That is real theft.
We have real laws about theft, and they are not controversial to anyone: don't steal, that is the law.
If they are taking people's laptops, they better have a good reason for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30762964</id>
	<title>You don't have those rights at border crossings.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263477660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Next case, please.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Next case , please .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Next case, please.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30769558</id>
	<title>Just use the three magic words.</title>
	<author>jafo</author>
	<datestamp>1263502260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Sir, I need you to type your cryptofs password here so I can inspect your laptop."<br><br>"I Forgot. It"<br><br>If you're using a good password, that's actually fairly plausible...  In fact, why not just do a final rsync back to your backup server before you head out on your way to the border crossing, set a crypto password you don't know, and remove the one you do know.  It takes way less time than wiping the hard drive.  And when you get back home, you have the data on your backup server.<br><br>And with netbooks, the laptop I travel with is effectively disposable.  When I get back home I want to be using my normal laptop so I'll sync down (or bzr pull) the data I need anyway.<br><br>Sean</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Sir , I need you to type your cryptofs password here so I can inspect your laptop .
" " I Forgot .
It " If you 're using a good password , that 's actually fairly plausible... In fact , why not just do a final rsync back to your backup server before you head out on your way to the border crossing , set a crypto password you do n't know , and remove the one you do know .
It takes way less time than wiping the hard drive .
And when you get back home , you have the data on your backup server.And with netbooks , the laptop I travel with is effectively disposable .
When I get back home I want to be using my normal laptop so I 'll sync down ( or bzr pull ) the data I need anyway.Sean</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Sir, I need you to type your cryptofs password here so I can inspect your laptop.
""I Forgot.
It"If you're using a good password, that's actually fairly plausible...  In fact, why not just do a final rsync back to your backup server before you head out on your way to the border crossing, set a crypto password you don't know, and remove the one you do know.
It takes way less time than wiping the hard drive.
And when you get back home, you have the data on your backup server.And with netbooks, the laptop I travel with is effectively disposable.
When I get back home I want to be using my normal laptop so I'll sync down (or bzr pull) the data I need anyway.Sean</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763106</id>
	<title>Lawyers aren't diplomats</title>
	<author>sirwired</author>
	<datestamp>1263479160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When it comes to border crossings, lawyers are not different from any other citizen.  The only things exempt from search at the border are diplomatic pouches.</p><p>SirWired</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When it comes to border crossings , lawyers are not different from any other citizen .
The only things exempt from search at the border are diplomatic pouches.SirWired</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When it comes to border crossings, lawyers are not different from any other citizen.
The only things exempt from search at the border are diplomatic pouches.SirWired</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763596</id>
	<title>This should be same as the rrest...</title>
	<author>hesaigo999ca</author>
	<datestamp>1263482400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There should be a reason why they go into your laptop as in your bags. If you have no previous record, and have nothing like a bomb swab positive or what not, then it should be like cavity searches, they are not allowed until they have cause, which in this case they seem to want to find it by going into your laptop.</p><p>I have a laptop that has encrypted disk for good measure....they keep it, all I have on there is a few games and some movies, you are telling me that this is reason to keep my laptop....I think this is way off, not only could they plant something, then you would only find out about it afterwards...and have to put up a good defense, but in the lawyer's case who lives out of his briefcase and laptop,<br>that is virtual suicide...they really do not want to make life easy for traveling, then they wonder why tourism is way down...<br>not only are the tickets getting too expensive by the day, they make it impossible for someone to travel in comfort or even<br>to be able to keep working from abroad.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There should be a reason why they go into your laptop as in your bags .
If you have no previous record , and have nothing like a bomb swab positive or what not , then it should be like cavity searches , they are not allowed until they have cause , which in this case they seem to want to find it by going into your laptop.I have a laptop that has encrypted disk for good measure....they keep it , all I have on there is a few games and some movies , you are telling me that this is reason to keep my laptop....I think this is way off , not only could they plant something , then you would only find out about it afterwards...and have to put up a good defense , but in the lawyer 's case who lives out of his briefcase and laptop,that is virtual suicide...they really do not want to make life easy for traveling , then they wonder why tourism is way down...not only are the tickets getting too expensive by the day , they make it impossible for someone to travel in comfort or evento be able to keep working from abroad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There should be a reason why they go into your laptop as in your bags.
If you have no previous record, and have nothing like a bomb swab positive or what not, then it should be like cavity searches, they are not allowed until they have cause, which in this case they seem to want to find it by going into your laptop.I have a laptop that has encrypted disk for good measure....they keep it, all I have on there is a few games and some movies, you are telling me that this is reason to keep my laptop....I think this is way off, not only could they plant something, then you would only find out about it afterwards...and have to put up a good defense, but in the lawyer's case who lives out of his briefcase and laptop,that is virtual suicide...they really do not want to make life easy for traveling, then they wonder why tourism is way down...not only are the tickets getting too expensive by the day, they make it impossible for someone to travel in comfort or evento be able to keep working from abroad.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30770190</id>
	<title>Re:You don't have those rights at border crossings</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263461520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Download Virtualbox, set up a virtual machine, and move all of your important work to the virtual hard drive.</p><p>Then, before you travel, make two backup copies of the virtual machine hard drive, one on a USB drive that is carefully stored, and one compressed with gzip -9, on a network accessible file storage. Then delete the virtual hard drive, and wipe the unused disk space by some means, even if you only make several copies of your OS files into another folder until the hard drive is full, then delete them all.</p><p>Then, when the border agents inspect your laptop there is nothing there except some games, a few bookmarks and your travel itinerary.</p><p>After you get to your hotel, fire up the computer, download and decompress the virtual hard drive, and keep on working as normal. If the laptop was confiscated at the border, buy a new one, install Virtualbox, download the virtual hard drive and get back to work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Download Virtualbox , set up a virtual machine , and move all of your important work to the virtual hard drive.Then , before you travel , make two backup copies of the virtual machine hard drive , one on a USB drive that is carefully stored , and one compressed with gzip -9 , on a network accessible file storage .
Then delete the virtual hard drive , and wipe the unused disk space by some means , even if you only make several copies of your OS files into another folder until the hard drive is full , then delete them all.Then , when the border agents inspect your laptop there is nothing there except some games , a few bookmarks and your travel itinerary.After you get to your hotel , fire up the computer , download and decompress the virtual hard drive , and keep on working as normal .
If the laptop was confiscated at the border , buy a new one , install Virtualbox , download the virtual hard drive and get back to work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Download Virtualbox, set up a virtual machine, and move all of your important work to the virtual hard drive.Then, before you travel, make two backup copies of the virtual machine hard drive, one on a USB drive that is carefully stored, and one compressed with gzip -9, on a network accessible file storage.
Then delete the virtual hard drive, and wipe the unused disk space by some means, even if you only make several copies of your OS files into another folder until the hard drive is full, then delete them all.Then, when the border agents inspect your laptop there is nothing there except some games, a few bookmarks and your travel itinerary.After you get to your hotel, fire up the computer, download and decompress the virtual hard drive, and keep on working as normal.
If the laptop was confiscated at the border, buy a new one, install Virtualbox, download the virtual hard drive and get back to work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763162</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30775846</id>
	<title>Re:You don't have those rights at border crossings</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263497160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; I work in IT forensics and malware research. Thus I tend to have a few exploits on my laptop, very alive and ready to strike.</p><p>"Research," huh?</p><p>I have an "experiment" in mind. It involves the MPAA, the RIAA, Microsoft, and The Church of Scientology. And your laptop. I'll let you figure out the rest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; I work in IT forensics and malware research .
Thus I tend to have a few exploits on my laptop , very alive and ready to strike .
" Research , " huh ? I have an " experiment " in mind .
It involves the MPAA , the RIAA , Microsoft , and The Church of Scientology .
And your laptop .
I 'll let you figure out the rest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; I work in IT forensics and malware research.
Thus I tend to have a few exploits on my laptop, very alive and ready to strike.
"Research," huh?I have an "experiment" in mind.
It involves the MPAA, the RIAA, Microsoft, and The Church of Scientology.
And your laptop.
I'll let you figure out the rest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763280</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30768730</id>
	<title>Re:They should improve the system</title>
	<author>sabt-pestnu</author>
	<datestamp>1263499560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>5.3.1.4 Custody Receipt.  If CBP determines it is necessary to detain temporarily an electronic device to continue the search, the Officer detaining the device shall issue a completed Form 6051D to the individual prior to the individual's departure.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>5.3.1.4 Custody Receipt .
If CBP determines it is necessary to detain temporarily an electronic device to continue the search , the Officer detaining the device shall issue a completed Form 6051D to the individual prior to the individual 's departure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>5.3.1.4 Custody Receipt.
If CBP determines it is necessary to detain temporarily an electronic device to continue the search, the Officer detaining the device shall issue a completed Form 6051D to the individual prior to the individual's departure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763332</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763192</id>
	<title>Hmmh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263479760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oversized laptops... They're almost oversized by definition for proper mobility.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oversized laptops... They 're almost oversized by definition for proper mobility .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oversized laptops... They're almost oversized by definition for proper mobility.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763426</id>
	<title>Unreasonable?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263481260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The groups argue that the practice of suspicionless laptop searches violates fundamental rights of freedom of speech and protection against unreasonable seizures and searches."</p><p>Silly rabbits, there have been no fundamental rights in the U.S. for years now....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The groups argue that the practice of suspicionless laptop searches violates fundamental rights of freedom of speech and protection against unreasonable seizures and searches .
" Silly rabbits , there have been no fundamental rights in the U.S. for years now... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The groups argue that the practice of suspicionless laptop searches violates fundamental rights of freedom of speech and protection against unreasonable seizures and searches.
"Silly rabbits, there have been no fundamental rights in the U.S. for years now....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30764442</id>
	<title>Back in the days of DOS, Penn Jillette...</title>
	<author>RevWaldo</author>
	<datestamp>1263485940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Back in the days of DOS, Penn Jillette (of Penn and Teller fame) used to write a computer column. Basically back then all airport security would ask you to do is turn your laptop on, just to confirm that it <i>is</i> a working laptop, and not, say, a laptop packed with C4 where the battery and hard drive should be.<br> <br> He suggested that when traveling you should NOT, DEFINITEY NOT put the following in your laptop's AUTOEXEC.BAT file:<br> <br>

<tt>
ECHO READY<br>
ECHO ARMING....<br>
ECHO ARMED<br>
ECHO *** DETONATION IN 00:30 ***<br>
ECHO Press 'x' to abort.<br>
CHOICE<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/C:x<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/T:x,30 &gt; NUL<br>
ECHO GOODBYE<br> <br>
</tt></htmltext>
<tokenext>Back in the days of DOS , Penn Jillette ( of Penn and Teller fame ) used to write a computer column .
Basically back then all airport security would ask you to do is turn your laptop on , just to confirm that it is a working laptop , and not , say , a laptop packed with C4 where the battery and hard drive should be .
He suggested that when traveling you should NOT , DEFINITEY NOT put the following in your laptop 's AUTOEXEC.BAT file : ECHO READY ECHO ARMING... . ECHO ARMED ECHO * * * DETONATION IN 00 : 30 * * * ECHO Press 'x ' to abort .
CHOICE /C : x /T : x,30 &gt; NUL ECHO GOODBYE</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Back in the days of DOS, Penn Jillette (of Penn and Teller fame) used to write a computer column.
Basically back then all airport security would ask you to do is turn your laptop on, just to confirm that it is a working laptop, and not, say, a laptop packed with C4 where the battery and hard drive should be.
He suggested that when traveling you should NOT, DEFINITEY NOT put the following in your laptop's AUTOEXEC.BAT file: 


ECHO READY
ECHO ARMING....
ECHO ARMED
ECHO *** DETONATION IN 00:30 ***
ECHO Press 'x' to abort.
CHOICE /C:x /T:x,30 &gt; NUL
ECHO GOODBYE 
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763328</id>
	<title>Do what I do.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263480600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Stay home.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Stay home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stay home.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763866</id>
	<title>Re:Lawyers aren't diplomats</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1263483660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, unless they successfully challenge the current legal situation and get it changed.</p><p>If only there were some place that we could discuss such a challenge.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , unless they successfully challenge the current legal situation and get it changed.If only there were some place that we could discuss such a challenge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, unless they successfully challenge the current legal situation and get it changed.If only there were some place that we could discuss such a challenge.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763422</id>
	<title>Re:Lawyers aren't diplomats</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263481260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>  The only things exempt from search at the border are diplomatic pouches.</p></div><p>Fine. Everyone crossing the northern or southern US border should stuff any item they want to protect from search in the special "pouch" all females carry with them throughout their life. Why should diplomats be the only persons whose pouches are protected from search?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only things exempt from search at the border are diplomatic pouches.Fine .
Everyone crossing the northern or southern US border should stuff any item they want to protect from search in the special " pouch " all females carry with them throughout their life .
Why should diplomats be the only persons whose pouches are protected from search ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  The only things exempt from search at the border are diplomatic pouches.Fine.
Everyone crossing the northern or southern US border should stuff any item they want to protect from search in the special "pouch" all females carry with them throughout their life.
Why should diplomats be the only persons whose pouches are protected from search?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30775300</id>
	<title>Re: seizure of laptops by border thugs</title>
	<author>thesquire</author>
	<datestamp>1263490440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext> "The groups argue that the practice of suspicionless laptop searches violates fundamental rights of freedom of speech and protection against unreasonable seizures and searches."  If this isn't obvious, then Welcome, Police State!</htmltext>
<tokenext>" The groups argue that the practice of suspicionless laptop searches violates fundamental rights of freedom of speech and protection against unreasonable seizures and searches .
" If this is n't obvious , then Welcome , Police State !</tokentext>
<sentencetext> "The groups argue that the practice of suspicionless laptop searches violates fundamental rights of freedom of speech and protection against unreasonable seizures and searches.
"  If this isn't obvious, then Welcome, Police State!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30765692</id>
	<title>That is what we have courts for</title>
	<author>sirwired</author>
	<datestamp>1263489840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The 1st Congress (who could be presumed to know what was intended by the 4th amendment) passed a law explicitly allowing for searches of anything and everything at the border.</p><p>The 4th amendment does not prohibit search/seizure without a warrant; it prohibits "unreasonable" search and seizure without a warrant.  "Reasonable" can be determined by statute, subject to review by the courts.</p><p>SirWired</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The 1st Congress ( who could be presumed to know what was intended by the 4th amendment ) passed a law explicitly allowing for searches of anything and everything at the border.The 4th amendment does not prohibit search/seizure without a warrant ; it prohibits " unreasonable " search and seizure without a warrant .
" Reasonable " can be determined by statute , subject to review by the courts.SirWired</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The 1st Congress (who could be presumed to know what was intended by the 4th amendment) passed a law explicitly allowing for searches of anything and everything at the border.The 4th amendment does not prohibit search/seizure without a warrant; it prohibits "unreasonable" search and seizure without a warrant.
"Reasonable" can be determined by statute, subject to review by the courts.SirWired</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30769082</id>
	<title>Re:Back in the days of DOS, Penn Jillette...</title>
	<author>EkriirkE</author>
	<datestamp>1263500700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was thinking as a nifty joke sure to get you killed by the failed-police-academy tsa:<br>
When you use truecrypt, you can have 2 volumes to boot based on what key you enter.    The "dummy" partition key should be something like "The laptop is a bomb"<br>
<br>
Mongoloid:  What is your password?<br>
You: The laptop is a bomb.<br>
Mongoloid: MY JOB HAS COME TO FRUITION!   I CAN FINALLY PROVE THE SYSTEM WORKS!  *bang bang*<br>
You: *dead*</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was thinking as a nifty joke sure to get you killed by the failed-police-academy tsa : When you use truecrypt , you can have 2 volumes to boot based on what key you enter .
The " dummy " partition key should be something like " The laptop is a bomb " Mongoloid : What is your password ?
You : The laptop is a bomb .
Mongoloid : MY JOB HAS COME TO FRUITION !
I CAN FINALLY PROVE THE SYSTEM WORKS !
* bang bang * You : * dead *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was thinking as a nifty joke sure to get you killed by the failed-police-academy tsa:
When you use truecrypt, you can have 2 volumes to boot based on what key you enter.
The "dummy" partition key should be something like "The laptop is a bomb"

Mongoloid:  What is your password?
You: The laptop is a bomb.
Mongoloid: MY JOB HAS COME TO FRUITION!
I CAN FINALLY PROVE THE SYSTEM WORKS!
*bang bang*
You: *dead*</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30764442</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30812076</id>
	<title>Just a chronicle of the inevitable...</title>
	<author>sugarmatic</author>
	<datestamp>1263806880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If a law is pointless or ineffectual, then surely there is also scant reason to repeal it by the way any administrative system works. Think Patriot Act or other examples in the tome that chronicles the unraveling of privacy or personal security we thought we signed up for.</p><p>If you want to travel without being searched, get a pilot license. Buy a plane. Go fly yourself. I've been searched exactly once during a border crossing when flying myself, and they wanted to make sure I wasn't bringing fruit into the country. As a side benefit, I've never been arbitrarily selected for a bribe and told to pay up or go to jail as I was when I drove once (until they found out I could understand him perfectly, and understand the car repair receipt he was waving at me, saying it was a warrant for my arrest).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If a law is pointless or ineffectual , then surely there is also scant reason to repeal it by the way any administrative system works .
Think Patriot Act or other examples in the tome that chronicles the unraveling of privacy or personal security we thought we signed up for.If you want to travel without being searched , get a pilot license .
Buy a plane .
Go fly yourself .
I 've been searched exactly once during a border crossing when flying myself , and they wanted to make sure I was n't bringing fruit into the country .
As a side benefit , I 've never been arbitrarily selected for a bribe and told to pay up or go to jail as I was when I drove once ( until they found out I could understand him perfectly , and understand the car repair receipt he was waving at me , saying it was a warrant for my arrest ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a law is pointless or ineffectual, then surely there is also scant reason to repeal it by the way any administrative system works.
Think Patriot Act or other examples in the tome that chronicles the unraveling of privacy or personal security we thought we signed up for.If you want to travel without being searched, get a pilot license.
Buy a plane.
Go fly yourself.
I've been searched exactly once during a border crossing when flying myself, and they wanted to make sure I wasn't bringing fruit into the country.
As a side benefit, I've never been arbitrarily selected for a bribe and told to pay up or go to jail as I was when I drove once (until they found out I could understand him perfectly, and understand the car repair receipt he was waving at me, saying it was a warrant for my arrest).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763186</id>
	<title>Seizure and privacy are the key</title>
	<author>what about</author>
	<datestamp>1263479700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I did travel to US a some time ago when things where more relaxed, airport control was reasonable.</p><p>It would be very upsetting and damaging if US border seize my laptop for no reason whatsoever and keep it indefenitely.<br>It is important to remember that the laptop is NOT a forbidden item or somewhat illegal, they keep it, just in case.<br>If it is the info they are after then just clone the HD and give the machine back !</p><p>On the privacy issue, it is clear that technology is extending our brain in terms of "storage capacity", kind of like a diary but in a way that is beyond a book in terms of search, speed, capacity. To me laptop search is like rumaging into your own mind diary, looking for connections, events, stories. Fair point if you at least have some lead of illicit activity otherwise it becomes just fishing for something, you never know.</p><p>I know that facebook just said that "privacy is over", I just hope we will not have to put up a real fight sooner or later to get our privacy back from our big brother.</p><p>P.S. Regarding catching "terrorists" at border crossing, what about some working intelligence ? Really, how can you trust the government when some many screwup happens so often... why normal citizen cannot record what police do ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did travel to US a some time ago when things where more relaxed , airport control was reasonable.It would be very upsetting and damaging if US border seize my laptop for no reason whatsoever and keep it indefenitely.It is important to remember that the laptop is NOT a forbidden item or somewhat illegal , they keep it , just in case.If it is the info they are after then just clone the HD and give the machine back ! On the privacy issue , it is clear that technology is extending our brain in terms of " storage capacity " , kind of like a diary but in a way that is beyond a book in terms of search , speed , capacity .
To me laptop search is like rumaging into your own mind diary , looking for connections , events , stories .
Fair point if you at least have some lead of illicit activity otherwise it becomes just fishing for something , you never know.I know that facebook just said that " privacy is over " , I just hope we will not have to put up a real fight sooner or later to get our privacy back from our big brother.P.S .
Regarding catching " terrorists " at border crossing , what about some working intelligence ?
Really , how can you trust the government when some many screwup happens so often... why normal citizen can not record what police do ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I did travel to US a some time ago when things where more relaxed, airport control was reasonable.It would be very upsetting and damaging if US border seize my laptop for no reason whatsoever and keep it indefenitely.It is important to remember that the laptop is NOT a forbidden item or somewhat illegal, they keep it, just in case.If it is the info they are after then just clone the HD and give the machine back !On the privacy issue, it is clear that technology is extending our brain in terms of "storage capacity", kind of like a diary but in a way that is beyond a book in terms of search, speed, capacity.
To me laptop search is like rumaging into your own mind diary, looking for connections, events, stories.
Fair point if you at least have some lead of illicit activity otherwise it becomes just fishing for something, you never know.I know that facebook just said that "privacy is over", I just hope we will not have to put up a real fight sooner or later to get our privacy back from our big brother.P.S.
Regarding catching "terrorists" at border crossing, what about some working intelligence ?
Really, how can you trust the government when some many screwup happens so often... why normal citizen cannot record what police do ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763162</id>
	<title>Re:You don't have those rights at border crossings</title>
	<author>Rakshasa Taisab</author>
	<datestamp>1263479580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So I'm going to the US for a IT related conference by invitation. Obviously having your laptop with you is 'mandatory', yet can I really afford the risk of losing an expensive computer that pretty much is the center piece of my thesis studies and various programming related activities?</p><p>More importantly, how does the US expect to keep its technological lead when visitors have these kinds of worries just entering the country?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So I 'm going to the US for a IT related conference by invitation .
Obviously having your laptop with you is 'mandatory ' , yet can I really afford the risk of losing an expensive computer that pretty much is the center piece of my thesis studies and various programming related activities ? More importantly , how does the US expect to keep its technological lead when visitors have these kinds of worries just entering the country ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So I'm going to the US for a IT related conference by invitation.
Obviously having your laptop with you is 'mandatory', yet can I really afford the risk of losing an expensive computer that pretty much is the center piece of my thesis studies and various programming related activities?More importantly, how does the US expect to keep its technological lead when visitors have these kinds of worries just entering the country?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30762964</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763316</id>
	<title>Re:Attorney Client Privilege</title>
	<author>ElSupreme</author>
	<datestamp>1263480540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Or it could violate my 4th amendment rights a an American citizen!<br>
<br>
I would hope that would be more important than Attorny client privilege.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or it could violate my 4th amendment rights a an American citizen !
I would hope that would be more important than Attorny client privilege .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or it could violate my 4th amendment rights a an American citizen!
I would hope that would be more important than Attorny client privilege.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763722</id>
	<title>Consider the arguments a little closer</title>
	<author>selil</author>
	<datestamp>1263483060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think it is funny that people say "you don't have those rights at border crossings", and yet that isn't even the government contention. The government believes that laptops and other electronic devices are open containers that can be examined at will after they've been seen.

In other words if this stands as a principle and you're walking down the street and they can see your iPod they (meaning police) can seize and examine the iPod. This is a principle of incremental legislation and enforcement. Case studies of similar expansions are found in seat belt laws, and punishment for driving under the influence.

As to people saying you don't have the rights accorded to the Constitution when crossing borders they are completely wrong. Administrations have held that point of view. They have also held that your rights (and responsibilities) apply wherever you are found. So, you have those rights, but can be charged for crimes from the United States even when where you are the incident is not illegal (e.g. child porn, gambling, etc..).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it is funny that people say " you do n't have those rights at border crossings " , and yet that is n't even the government contention .
The government believes that laptops and other electronic devices are open containers that can be examined at will after they 've been seen .
In other words if this stands as a principle and you 're walking down the street and they can see your iPod they ( meaning police ) can seize and examine the iPod .
This is a principle of incremental legislation and enforcement .
Case studies of similar expansions are found in seat belt laws , and punishment for driving under the influence .
As to people saying you do n't have the rights accorded to the Constitution when crossing borders they are completely wrong .
Administrations have held that point of view .
They have also held that your rights ( and responsibilities ) apply wherever you are found .
So , you have those rights , but can be charged for crimes from the United States even when where you are the incident is not illegal ( e.g .
child porn , gambling , etc.. ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it is funny that people say "you don't have those rights at border crossings", and yet that isn't even the government contention.
The government believes that laptops and other electronic devices are open containers that can be examined at will after they've been seen.
In other words if this stands as a principle and you're walking down the street and they can see your iPod they (meaning police) can seize and examine the iPod.
This is a principle of incremental legislation and enforcement.
Case studies of similar expansions are found in seat belt laws, and punishment for driving under the influence.
As to people saying you don't have the rights accorded to the Constitution when crossing borders they are completely wrong.
Administrations have held that point of view.
They have also held that your rights (and responsibilities) apply wherever you are found.
So, you have those rights, but can be charged for crimes from the United States even when where you are the incident is not illegal (e.g.
child porn, gambling, etc..).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763474</id>
	<title>Re:You don't have those rights at border crossings</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263481740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its not just the US doing this.  The UK has been doing it as well</p><p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/150465.stm" title="bbc.co.uk">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/150465.stm</a> [bbc.co.uk]</p><p>All countries have the right to do any type of search they want at a border crossing.  Thats how they protect their country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its not just the US doing this .
The UK has been doing it as wellhttp : //news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/150465.stm [ bbc.co.uk ] All countries have the right to do any type of search they want at a border crossing .
Thats how they protect their country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its not just the US doing this.
The UK has been doing it as wellhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/150465.stm [bbc.co.uk]All countries have the right to do any type of search they want at a border crossing.
Thats how they protect their country.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763162</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30775058</id>
	<title>What's all the fuss?</title>
	<author>Miss Emily Litella</author>
	<datestamp>1263487680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why are people so angry about oversized laptops.  The little ones are too hard to read.  My eyes aren't as good as they used to be and I need an oversized laptop.  With so many different models<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... What?  Seized laptops?  Well, that's different.</p><p>Never mind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why are people so angry about oversized laptops .
The little ones are too hard to read .
My eyes are n't as good as they used to be and I need an oversized laptop .
With so many different models .... What ? Seized laptops ?
Well , that 's different.Never mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why are people so angry about oversized laptops.
The little ones are too hard to read.
My eyes aren't as good as they used to be and I need an oversized laptop.
With so many different models .... What?  Seized laptops?
Well, that's different.Never mind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30765460</id>
	<title>Re:You don't have those rights at border crossings</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263489000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Might be a business opportunity here. Set up a service that would allow folks to rent a laptop with an easily replaced hard drive, once they're inside the US. The customer can then either purchase a new hard drive and image it with their personal image (backed up before they left to some server or some such) or install their own hard drive (mailed out ahead of time?). Sure, there's the chance of a key logger or some such being installed in the laptop so you'd need a good rep and bond for the rental company but still, there might be a market for this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Might be a business opportunity here .
Set up a service that would allow folks to rent a laptop with an easily replaced hard drive , once they 're inside the US .
The customer can then either purchase a new hard drive and image it with their personal image ( backed up before they left to some server or some such ) or install their own hard drive ( mailed out ahead of time ? ) .
Sure , there 's the chance of a key logger or some such being installed in the laptop so you 'd need a good rep and bond for the rental company but still , there might be a market for this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Might be a business opportunity here.
Set up a service that would allow folks to rent a laptop with an easily replaced hard drive, once they're inside the US.
The customer can then either purchase a new hard drive and image it with their personal image (backed up before they left to some server or some such) or install their own hard drive (mailed out ahead of time?).
Sure, there's the chance of a key logger or some such being installed in the laptop so you'd need a good rep and bond for the rental company but still, there might be a market for this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763162</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30765482</id>
	<title>Re:Lawyers aren't diplomats</title>
	<author>Dare nMc</author>
	<datestamp>1263489060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lawyers are different, they have a 6th amendment protection that has no such "reasonable search exemption."   The argument allowing searches has always been "it's a reasonable search" to avoid 5th amendment requirements.  No argument (I know of) has been made as to why a 6th amendment doesn't apply.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lawyers are different , they have a 6th amendment protection that has no such " reasonable search exemption .
" The argument allowing searches has always been " it 's a reasonable search " to avoid 5th amendment requirements .
No argument ( I know of ) has been made as to why a 6th amendment does n't apply .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lawyers are different, they have a 6th amendment protection that has no such "reasonable search exemption.
"   The argument allowing searches has always been "it's a reasonable search" to avoid 5th amendment requirements.
No argument (I know of) has been made as to why a 6th amendment doesn't apply.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763464</id>
	<title>Re:Lawyers aren't diplomats</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263481680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The only things exempt from search at the border are diplomatic pouches.</p></div><p>
hmmm, reread the 4th amendment several times and never saw that...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only things exempt from search at the border are diplomatic pouches .
hmmm , reread the 4th amendment several times and never saw that.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only things exempt from search at the border are diplomatic pouches.
hmmm, reread the 4th amendment several times and never saw that...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763254</id>
	<title>Re:You don't have those rights at border crossings</title>
	<author>mortonda</author>
	<datestamp>1263480240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A laptop can be replaced, but data can't.   Be sure you leave a backup behind!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A laptop can be replaced , but data ca n't .
Be sure you leave a backup behind !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A laptop can be replaced, but data can't.
Be sure you leave a backup behind!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_14_0312257.30763162</parent>
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