<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_12_1819214</id>
	<title>Google Charges ETF For Nexus One On Top of Carrier's</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1263287280000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>dumbnose sends along the news that <a href="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/01/warning-nexus-one-users-dangerous-fees-ahead.ars?utm\_source=rss&amp;utm\_medium=rss&amp;utm\_campaign=rss">Google is double-dipping on the Nexus One early termination fee</a>. Ars sorts out the double dose of fine print from Google and T-Mobile. What it boils down to is, if you give up on your Nexus One between 14 days and 120 days after the sale, it will cost you $550: $350 to Google (automatically charged to the credit card you used to buy the phone) and $200 to T-Mobile. After 120 days the Google fee goes away and after 550 days the T-Mobile ETF begins prorating. A poster on Dave Farber's email list provides <a href="http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/2010/01/sort/time\_rev/page/1/entry/0:88/20100112133401:0BE5533C-FFA9-11DE-BAA4-A465AB863A0E/">another perspective</a> on the "restructuring of the handset premium."</htmltext>
<tokenext>dumbnose sends along the news that Google is double-dipping on the Nexus One early termination fee .
Ars sorts out the double dose of fine print from Google and T-Mobile .
What it boils down to is , if you give up on your Nexus One between 14 days and 120 days after the sale , it will cost you $ 550 : $ 350 to Google ( automatically charged to the credit card you used to buy the phone ) and $ 200 to T-Mobile .
After 120 days the Google fee goes away and after 550 days the T-Mobile ETF begins prorating .
A poster on Dave Farber 's email list provides another perspective on the " restructuring of the handset premium .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>dumbnose sends along the news that Google is double-dipping on the Nexus One early termination fee.
Ars sorts out the double dose of fine print from Google and T-Mobile.
What it boils down to is, if you give up on your Nexus One between 14 days and 120 days after the sale, it will cost you $550: $350 to Google (automatically charged to the credit card you used to buy the phone) and $200 to T-Mobile.
After 120 days the Google fee goes away and after 550 days the T-Mobile ETF begins prorating.
A poster on Dave Farber's email list provides another perspective on the "restructuring of the handset premium.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742762</id>
	<title>Do no evil?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Indeed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743598</id>
	<title>Nexus One DOA</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1263295020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And that concludes the end of all my interest in this phone.</p><p>Seriously? More ETF? What were they smoking? That goes completely against what the reason was, that anybody hoped for this phone in the first place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And that concludes the end of all my interest in this phone.Seriously ?
More ETF ?
What were they smoking ?
That goes completely against what the reason was , that anybody hoped for this phone in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And that concludes the end of all my interest in this phone.Seriously?
More ETF?
What were they smoking?
That goes completely against what the reason was, that anybody hoped for this phone in the first place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30778630</id>
	<title>Re:ETFs?</title>
	<author>tehcyder</author>
	<datestamp>1263569460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I should draw this up as a flowchart.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
How about a nice Powerpoint presentation?  You could probably develop it into an iPhone app too.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I should draw this up as a flowchart .
How about a nice Powerpoint presentation ?
You could probably develop it into an iPhone app too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I should draw this up as a flowchart.
How about a nice Powerpoint presentation?
You could probably develop it into an iPhone app too.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743146</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30746912</id>
	<title>Re:I'll stick with my Rogers Wireless iPhone</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263316020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just in case you don't read the anonymous cowards, I have some bad news.  Rogers hiked their ETF sometime before the iPhone was introduced.  It's now $400 + $100 if you cancel a data plan.  My contract had some unclear wording about whether the data plan ETF fee actually applied to iPhones, but I suspect Rogers has a) fixed that and b) will interpret it in their favour anyway.</p><p>But yeah, it's still worth the contract.  $500 for the ETF plus they don't screw you quite as badly on the monthly fee vs. $699 for the phone + maximal screwage plan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just in case you do n't read the anonymous cowards , I have some bad news .
Rogers hiked their ETF sometime before the iPhone was introduced .
It 's now $ 400 + $ 100 if you cancel a data plan .
My contract had some unclear wording about whether the data plan ETF fee actually applied to iPhones , but I suspect Rogers has a ) fixed that and b ) will interpret it in their favour anyway.But yeah , it 's still worth the contract .
$ 500 for the ETF plus they do n't screw you quite as badly on the monthly fee vs. $ 699 for the phone + maximal screwage plan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just in case you don't read the anonymous cowards, I have some bad news.
Rogers hiked their ETF sometime before the iPhone was introduced.
It's now $400 + $100 if you cancel a data plan.
My contract had some unclear wording about whether the data plan ETF fee actually applied to iPhones, but I suspect Rogers has a) fixed that and b) will interpret it in their favour anyway.But yeah, it's still worth the contract.
$500 for the ETF plus they don't screw you quite as badly on the monthly fee vs. $699 for the phone + maximal screwage plan.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30747962</id>
	<title>Very different in the UK</title>
	<author>Squiff</author>
	<datestamp>1263415200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the UK under The Distance Selling Regulations ( <a href="http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice\_and\_resources/resource\_base/legal/distance-selling-regulations/" title="oft.gov.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice\_and\_resources/resource\_base/legal/distance-selling-regulations/</a> [oft.gov.uk] ) All mail order companies, including on-line sellers must give you a seven (working) day cooling off period during which you may return your purchase for a full refund. For a phone you would be expected to pay the tariffed cost of any calls etc that you made but during the time you had it but nothing for the phone, no penalty and the contract would be cancelled. All networks also offer SIM only contracts where you may use your own phone. T-Mobile UK for instance offer both monthly sim-only plans: <a href="http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/sim-card/pay-monthly/" title="t-mobile.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/sim-card/pay-monthly/</a> [t-mobile.co.uk] and pay as you go 'free SIM' plans <a href="http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/free-pay-as-you-go-sim-cards/" title="t-mobile.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/free-pay-as-you-go-sim-cards/</a> [t-mobile.co.uk]</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the UK under The Distance Selling Regulations ( http : //www.oft.gov.uk/advice \ _and \ _resources/resource \ _base/legal/distance-selling-regulations/ [ oft.gov.uk ] ) All mail order companies , including on-line sellers must give you a seven ( working ) day cooling off period during which you may return your purchase for a full refund .
For a phone you would be expected to pay the tariffed cost of any calls etc that you made but during the time you had it but nothing for the phone , no penalty and the contract would be cancelled .
All networks also offer SIM only contracts where you may use your own phone .
T-Mobile UK for instance offer both monthly sim-only plans : http : //www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/sim-card/pay-monthly/ [ t-mobile.co.uk ] and pay as you go 'free SIM ' plans http : //www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/free-pay-as-you-go-sim-cards/ [ t-mobile.co.uk ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the UK under The Distance Selling Regulations ( http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice\_and\_resources/resource\_base/legal/distance-selling-regulations/ [oft.gov.uk] ) All mail order companies, including on-line sellers must give you a seven (working) day cooling off period during which you may return your purchase for a full refund.
For a phone you would be expected to pay the tariffed cost of any calls etc that you made but during the time you had it but nothing for the phone, no penalty and the contract would be cancelled.
All networks also offer SIM only contracts where you may use your own phone.
T-Mobile UK for instance offer both monthly sim-only plans: http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/sim-card/pay-monthly/ [t-mobile.co.uk] and pay as you go 'free SIM' plans http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/free-pay-as-you-go-sim-cards/ [t-mobile.co.uk]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743738</id>
	<title>Re:And buy what as an alternative?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263295800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job, and keep in touch with my family.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those?</p></div></blockquote><p>You don't.  You do email and calendar at your desktop computer.  You pick up the cheap $50-with-1-year-contract cellphone when it makes a noise indicating someone wants to talk to you.</p><p>You don't need immediate mobile email access to keep in touch with family. Read your mailbox once per day (or every few days) when you get  to your desktop. If someone has an emergency, they can fucking call you.  If it's not an emergency, a delayed turnaround is fine.</p><p>And if you are required to read email/calendars immediately for your job, then don't worry, because your employer is going to buy the phone.</p><blockquote><div><p>it's basically telling me to find a job and a lifestyle that doesn't require a cell phone.</p></div></blockquote><p>Yep, it's pretty clear you don't know the diff between a cell phone, and a ridiculously powerful (expensive) handheld personal computer.  The two are merging but they're sure as hell not quite the same thing yet.  One costs $50 and the other costs $500.  Quit <em>saying</em> that you want a cellphone (a $50 device) and then bitching that the $500 overkill device costs too much.  Get the $50 one and make your fucking phone calls like you said you wanted to.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job , and keep in touch with my family .
.. How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those ? You do n't .
You do email and calendar at your desktop computer .
You pick up the cheap $ 50-with-1-year-contract cellphone when it makes a noise indicating someone wants to talk to you.You do n't need immediate mobile email access to keep in touch with family .
Read your mailbox once per day ( or every few days ) when you get to your desktop .
If someone has an emergency , they can fucking call you .
If it 's not an emergency , a delayed turnaround is fine.And if you are required to read email/calendars immediately for your job , then do n't worry , because your employer is going to buy the phone.it 's basically telling me to find a job and a lifestyle that does n't require a cell phone.Yep , it 's pretty clear you do n't know the diff between a cell phone , and a ridiculously powerful ( expensive ) handheld personal computer .
The two are merging but they 're sure as hell not quite the same thing yet .
One costs $ 50 and the other costs $ 500 .
Quit saying that you want a cellphone ( a $ 50 device ) and then bitching that the $ 500 overkill device costs too much .
Get the $ 50 one and make your fucking phone calls like you said you wanted to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job, and keep in touch with my family.
.. How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those?You don't.
You do email and calendar at your desktop computer.
You pick up the cheap $50-with-1-year-contract cellphone when it makes a noise indicating someone wants to talk to you.You don't need immediate mobile email access to keep in touch with family.
Read your mailbox once per day (or every few days) when you get  to your desktop.
If someone has an emergency, they can fucking call you.
If it's not an emergency, a delayed turnaround is fine.And if you are required to read email/calendars immediately for your job, then don't worry, because your employer is going to buy the phone.it's basically telling me to find a job and a lifestyle that doesn't require a cell phone.Yep, it's pretty clear you don't know the diff between a cell phone, and a ridiculously powerful (expensive) handheld personal computer.
The two are merging but they're sure as hell not quite the same thing yet.
One costs $50 and the other costs $500.
Quit saying that you want a cellphone (a $50 device) and then bitching that the $500 overkill device costs too much.
Get the $50 one and make your fucking phone calls like you said you wanted to.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30747776</id>
	<title>Re:Separate handset and communications charges</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263325140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; If you buy the phone on a contract, you pay $80 a month. If you buy the phone without a contract, you still pay $80 a month.</p><p>Not true. If you buy the phone without a contract you pay $60 a month. The plans without the contract are the Even More Plus plans (instead of the Even More plans). The $60 Even More Plus plan has the exact same features as the $80 Even More plan.</p><p>It is actually cheaper to get the Nexus One without the contract.</p><p>Without contract: $530 for the phone + (24 months x $60) = $1970<br>With contract for new customers: $180 for the phone + (24 months x $80) = $2100<br>With contract for existing customers that already have a data plan (eg G1 owners): $380 for the phone + (24 months x $80) = $2300</p><p>The only people getting the Nexus One with a contract should be those who cannot pay for the full price of the phone up front.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; If you buy the phone on a contract , you pay $ 80 a month .
If you buy the phone without a contract , you still pay $ 80 a month.Not true .
If you buy the phone without a contract you pay $ 60 a month .
The plans without the contract are the Even More Plus plans ( instead of the Even More plans ) .
The $ 60 Even More Plus plan has the exact same features as the $ 80 Even More plan.It is actually cheaper to get the Nexus One without the contract.Without contract : $ 530 for the phone + ( 24 months x $ 60 ) = $ 1970With contract for new customers : $ 180 for the phone + ( 24 months x $ 80 ) = $ 2100With contract for existing customers that already have a data plan ( eg G1 owners ) : $ 380 for the phone + ( 24 months x $ 80 ) = $ 2300The only people getting the Nexus One with a contract should be those who can not pay for the full price of the phone up front .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; If you buy the phone on a contract, you pay $80 a month.
If you buy the phone without a contract, you still pay $80 a month.Not true.
If you buy the phone without a contract you pay $60 a month.
The plans without the contract are the Even More Plus plans (instead of the Even More plans).
The $60 Even More Plus plan has the exact same features as the $80 Even More plan.It is actually cheaper to get the Nexus One without the contract.Without contract: $530 for the phone + (24 months x $60) = $1970With contract for new customers: $180 for the phone + (24 months x $80) = $2100With contract for existing customers that already have a data plan (eg G1 owners): $380 for the phone + (24 months x $80) = $2300The only people getting the Nexus One with a contract should be those who cannot pay for the full price of the phone up front.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30747156</id>
	<title>Re:Your not paying for a phone...</title>
	<author>Failed Physicist</author>
	<datestamp>1263318300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except, no, it is not a phone, aside from a very limited subset of its functions. It is a phone-enabled internet tablet, a nearly full-fledged turing machine that you can do nearly anything you want with it, especially if you are wishing to root it. It has as much power as a 2000's 1000-1200$ desktop computer, with a capacitive touchscreen, blistering solid-state memory, many different integrated wireless communication protocols (wifi, bluetooth, cell), and who knows what else, all at your fingertips in a pocket form factor for 600 bucks.</p><p>But sure, think of it as a phone if you can't conceive better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except , no , it is not a phone , aside from a very limited subset of its functions .
It is a phone-enabled internet tablet , a nearly full-fledged turing machine that you can do nearly anything you want with it , especially if you are wishing to root it .
It has as much power as a 2000 's 1000-1200 $ desktop computer , with a capacitive touchscreen , blistering solid-state memory , many different integrated wireless communication protocols ( wifi , bluetooth , cell ) , and who knows what else , all at your fingertips in a pocket form factor for 600 bucks.But sure , think of it as a phone if you ca n't conceive better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except, no, it is not a phone, aside from a very limited subset of its functions.
It is a phone-enabled internet tablet, a nearly full-fledged turing machine that you can do nearly anything you want with it, especially if you are wishing to root it.
It has as much power as a 2000's 1000-1200$ desktop computer, with a capacitive touchscreen, blistering solid-state memory, many different integrated wireless communication protocols (wifi, bluetooth, cell), and who knows what else, all at your fingertips in a pocket form factor for 600 bucks.But sure, think of it as a phone if you can't conceive better.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30745592</id>
	<title>Re:Separate handset and communications charges</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263305460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The system in Japan makes more sense.  When you buy a phone, you choose to pay the full cost up front, or pay in 12 or 24 installments (and of course if you want to cash out early, you have to pay the remainder of the balance, just like any installment plan).  The communication charges are SEPARATE from the phone charges.  So the end result is that the user who wants a "free phone" simply pays a bit more monthly than the user who paid for their phone up front.</p></div><p>I'd like to offer a differeing opinion on the Japanese mobile contract system: there is very little that makes sense about the mobile phone system in Japan.</p><p>While you are correct that the Japanese carriers allow you to choose various installment options to pay for a new phone, you don't mention that it is impossible to get a contact in Japan without buying a new phone. For example, even if you already own an iphone, Softbank will not allow you to use it. They will not sell you a SIM only contract but insist that you buy a new phone at the same time that you make a contract.</p><p>Docomo is not much better. Currently, the Android-based phone available from them is the HT-03A, based on the older HTC Magic, hence it would be desirable to import one of the recent models like the Nexus One. While docomo will at least sell you the SIM only contract without a phone, they will not guarantee that you can use or even provide support for setting up the fixed rate packet service. As a result, you could easily run up &gt;&yen;1E5 in data bills without realizing, and have no recourse, making this a risky and impracticable option.</p><p>Both of these carriers have ~&yen;1E4 termination fees, potentially more depending on what combination of the confusing plethora of packages and discount plans you opted for.</p><p>I have no experience of the state of mobile carriers in the US, but I can tell you that the Japanese system is still pretty terrible and much worse than that of Europe.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The system in Japan makes more sense .
When you buy a phone , you choose to pay the full cost up front , or pay in 12 or 24 installments ( and of course if you want to cash out early , you have to pay the remainder of the balance , just like any installment plan ) .
The communication charges are SEPARATE from the phone charges .
So the end result is that the user who wants a " free phone " simply pays a bit more monthly than the user who paid for their phone up front.I 'd like to offer a differeing opinion on the Japanese mobile contract system : there is very little that makes sense about the mobile phone system in Japan.While you are correct that the Japanese carriers allow you to choose various installment options to pay for a new phone , you do n't mention that it is impossible to get a contact in Japan without buying a new phone .
For example , even if you already own an iphone , Softbank will not allow you to use it .
They will not sell you a SIM only contract but insist that you buy a new phone at the same time that you make a contract.Docomo is not much better .
Currently , the Android-based phone available from them is the HT-03A , based on the older HTC Magic , hence it would be desirable to import one of the recent models like the Nexus One .
While docomo will at least sell you the SIM only contract without a phone , they will not guarantee that you can use or even provide support for setting up the fixed rate packet service .
As a result , you could easily run up &gt;   1E5 in data bills without realizing , and have no recourse , making this a risky and impracticable option.Both of these carriers have ~   1E4 termination fees , potentially more depending on what combination of the confusing plethora of packages and discount plans you opted for.I have no experience of the state of mobile carriers in the US , but I can tell you that the Japanese system is still pretty terrible and much worse than that of Europe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The system in Japan makes more sense.
When you buy a phone, you choose to pay the full cost up front, or pay in 12 or 24 installments (and of course if you want to cash out early, you have to pay the remainder of the balance, just like any installment plan).
The communication charges are SEPARATE from the phone charges.
So the end result is that the user who wants a "free phone" simply pays a bit more monthly than the user who paid for their phone up front.I'd like to offer a differeing opinion on the Japanese mobile contract system: there is very little that makes sense about the mobile phone system in Japan.While you are correct that the Japanese carriers allow you to choose various installment options to pay for a new phone, you don't mention that it is impossible to get a contact in Japan without buying a new phone.
For example, even if you already own an iphone, Softbank will not allow you to use it.
They will not sell you a SIM only contract but insist that you buy a new phone at the same time that you make a contract.Docomo is not much better.
Currently, the Android-based phone available from them is the HT-03A, based on the older HTC Magic, hence it would be desirable to import one of the recent models like the Nexus One.
While docomo will at least sell you the SIM only contract without a phone, they will not guarantee that you can use or even provide support for setting up the fixed rate packet service.
As a result, you could easily run up &gt;¥1E5 in data bills without realizing, and have no recourse, making this a risky and impracticable option.Both of these carriers have ~¥1E4 termination fees, potentially more depending on what combination of the confusing plethora of packages and discount plans you opted for.I have no experience of the state of mobile carriers in the US, but I can tell you that the Japanese system is still pretty terrible and much worse than that of Europe.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743082</id>
	<title>Re:False alarm</title>
	<author>PPalmgren</author>
	<datestamp>1263292680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Might wanna read TFS again, it clearly states that this incident can occur between 14 to 120 days, which is what your quote says.  Essentially, you can only return the phone for the first 14 days, and you're charged an ETF by google to make up for the subsidy cost difference if terminated between 15 and 120 days.  T-Mob also charges an ETF for breach of contract.</p><p>IMO it is a double dip, since they would be making 180+350+200 on a phone cancelled in that window, which is more than the cost of the phone, which is bullshit.  If you can find fine print in T-mobile's contract that states they do not charge an ETF if it overlaps with google's ETF, that will negate it, but I don't see anything in your post that suggests otherwise.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Might wan na read TFS again , it clearly states that this incident can occur between 14 to 120 days , which is what your quote says .
Essentially , you can only return the phone for the first 14 days , and you 're charged an ETF by google to make up for the subsidy cost difference if terminated between 15 and 120 days .
T-Mob also charges an ETF for breach of contract.IMO it is a double dip , since they would be making 180 + 350 + 200 on a phone cancelled in that window , which is more than the cost of the phone , which is bullshit .
If you can find fine print in T-mobile 's contract that states they do not charge an ETF if it overlaps with google 's ETF , that will negate it , but I do n't see anything in your post that suggests otherwise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Might wanna read TFS again, it clearly states that this incident can occur between 14 to 120 days, which is what your quote says.
Essentially, you can only return the phone for the first 14 days, and you're charged an ETF by google to make up for the subsidy cost difference if terminated between 15 and 120 days.
T-Mob also charges an ETF for breach of contract.IMO it is a double dip, since they would be making 180+350+200 on a phone cancelled in that window, which is more than the cost of the phone, which is bullshit.
If you can find fine print in T-mobile's contract that states they do not charge an ETF if it overlaps with google's ETF, that will negate it, but I don't see anything in your post that suggests otherwise.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743694</id>
	<title>Re:It's the T-Mobile ETF that doesn't make sense..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263295440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a basic T-mobile plan for $40/month, with 1-yr contract and no phone (I have my own phone). If I cancel early, they will charge me an ETF of (I think) $200, prorated after 6 months.</p><p>WHY?! You are right, this is the true outrage, and the FTC should investigate this practice. For nearly any other product, if I am not satisfied with it and return it, I get all my money back; the exception is electronics, where they charge a small restocking fee. But if I am not satisfied with my mobile connectivity product, I am still forced to pay it in full. For what reason? What is the overhead cost they must recuperate, for terminating my service? How is their cost structure any different than for my land line, which I can cancel at any time without an ETF? Wireless carriers' behavior borders on monopolistic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a basic T-mobile plan for $ 40/month , with 1-yr contract and no phone ( I have my own phone ) .
If I cancel early , they will charge me an ETF of ( I think ) $ 200 , prorated after 6 months.WHY ? !
You are right , this is the true outrage , and the FTC should investigate this practice .
For nearly any other product , if I am not satisfied with it and return it , I get all my money back ; the exception is electronics , where they charge a small restocking fee .
But if I am not satisfied with my mobile connectivity product , I am still forced to pay it in full .
For what reason ?
What is the overhead cost they must recuperate , for terminating my service ?
How is their cost structure any different than for my land line , which I can cancel at any time without an ETF ?
Wireless carriers ' behavior borders on monopolistic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a basic T-mobile plan for $40/month, with 1-yr contract and no phone (I have my own phone).
If I cancel early, they will charge me an ETF of (I think) $200, prorated after 6 months.WHY?!
You are right, this is the true outrage, and the FTC should investigate this practice.
For nearly any other product, if I am not satisfied with it and return it, I get all my money back; the exception is electronics, where they charge a small restocking fee.
But if I am not satisfied with my mobile connectivity product, I am still forced to pay it in full.
For what reason?
What is the overhead cost they must recuperate, for terminating my service?
How is their cost structure any different than for my land line, which I can cancel at any time without an ETF?
Wireless carriers' behavior borders on monopolistic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743084</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742830</id>
	<title>Re:that sort of makes sense</title>
	<author>kannibal\_klown</author>
	<datestamp>1263291420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>See, that's why I went with the T-Mobile Even More <b>Plus</b> plan.</p><p>No 2-year contract, and no early termination fee.</p><p>Then again that meant I had to pay full price for my Nexus One... around $550.</p><p>I'm still deciding whether I'm going to keep it or stick with AT&amp;T, and I still have 1.5 weeks to decide and return it.</p><p>Granted I'll still be about about $90-$100 if I return it.  51.99 from my T-Mobile plan (via company discount) and 40-50 for the restocking fee.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>See , that 's why I went with the T-Mobile Even More Plus plan.No 2-year contract , and no early termination fee.Then again that meant I had to pay full price for my Nexus One... around $ 550.I 'm still deciding whether I 'm going to keep it or stick with AT&amp;T , and I still have 1.5 weeks to decide and return it.Granted I 'll still be about about $ 90- $ 100 if I return it .
51.99 from my T-Mobile plan ( via company discount ) and 40-50 for the restocking fee .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See, that's why I went with the T-Mobile Even More Plus plan.No 2-year contract, and no early termination fee.Then again that meant I had to pay full price for my Nexus One... around $550.I'm still deciding whether I'm going to keep it or stick with AT&amp;T, and I still have 1.5 weeks to decide and return it.Granted I'll still be about about $90-$100 if I return it.
51.99 from my T-Mobile plan (via company discount) and 40-50 for the restocking fee.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30744320</id>
	<title>Re:And buy what as an alternative?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263298500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>You need a cell phone, and don't want a cheap one. An ETF, however, is a deal breaker. Here, I've got a phone for you: the Google Nexus One. They offer it in two flavors: one subsidized by a 2-year contract with an ETF, and one unlocked with no contract.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You need a cell phone , and do n't want a cheap one .
An ETF , however , is a deal breaker .
Here , I 've got a phone for you : the Google Nexus One .
They offer it in two flavors : one subsidized by a 2-year contract with an ETF , and one unlocked with no contract .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You need a cell phone, and don't want a cheap one.
An ETF, however, is a deal breaker.
Here, I've got a phone for you: the Google Nexus One.
They offer it in two flavors: one subsidized by a 2-year contract with an ETF, and one unlocked with no contract.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742902</id>
	<title>Legal?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Can someone who is a lawyer say if it's legal or not?  If this becomes a trend, what's to keep other Android phone manufacturers and even other manufacturers from doing the same?  What's to keep it to spreading from other industries, specifically one that has a service associated with it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Can someone who is a lawyer say if it 's legal or not ?
If this becomes a trend , what 's to keep other Android phone manufacturers and even other manufacturers from doing the same ?
What 's to keep it to spreading from other industries , specifically one that has a service associated with it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can someone who is a lawyer say if it's legal or not?
If this becomes a trend, what's to keep other Android phone manufacturers and even other manufacturers from doing the same?
What's to keep it to spreading from other industries, specifically one that has a service associated with it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742748</id>
	<title>ETF?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>More like WTF.</htmltext>
<tokenext>More like WTF .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More like WTF.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742924</id>
	<title>False alarm</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As Ars poster captriker notes: <i>the Google fee is only levied if you do not return the device to them in the subscribed time.</i></p><p><a href="http://www.google.com/phone/static/en\_US-terms\_of\_sale.html" title="google.com">Google's terms of sale for the Nexus device</a> [google.com] state:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>You agree to pay Google an equipment subsidy recovery fee (the "Equipment Recovery Fee") equal to the difference between the full price of the Nexus handheld device without service plan and the price you paid for the Nexus handheld device if you cancel your wireless plan prior to 120 days of continuous wireless service. For example, if the full price of the Nexus handheld device without service plan was $529 USD and the price you paid for the Nexus handheld device was $179 USD with a service plan, the Equipment Recovery Fee you pay will be $350 USD in the event you cancel within the first 120 days of carrier service. The Equipment Recovery Fee is equal to the line item in your confirmation email setting forth the discount on the full priced Nexus handheld device related to your carrier service plan activiation. You authorize Google to charge the Equipment Recovery Fee directly to your credit card, or other payment method used to purchase the Nexus handheld device, upon cancellation of your wireless plan. You will not be charged the Equipment Recovery Fee if you return your Nexus handheld device to Google within the 14 day Return Policy period as set forth below.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As Ars poster captriker notes : the Google fee is only levied if you do not return the device to them in the subscribed time.Google 's terms of sale for the Nexus device [ google.com ] state : You agree to pay Google an equipment subsidy recovery fee ( the " Equipment Recovery Fee " ) equal to the difference between the full price of the Nexus handheld device without service plan and the price you paid for the Nexus handheld device if you cancel your wireless plan prior to 120 days of continuous wireless service .
For example , if the full price of the Nexus handheld device without service plan was $ 529 USD and the price you paid for the Nexus handheld device was $ 179 USD with a service plan , the Equipment Recovery Fee you pay will be $ 350 USD in the event you cancel within the first 120 days of carrier service .
The Equipment Recovery Fee is equal to the line item in your confirmation email setting forth the discount on the full priced Nexus handheld device related to your carrier service plan activiation .
You authorize Google to charge the Equipment Recovery Fee directly to your credit card , or other payment method used to purchase the Nexus handheld device , upon cancellation of your wireless plan .
You will not be charged the Equipment Recovery Fee if you return your Nexus handheld device to Google within the 14 day Return Policy period as set forth below .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As Ars poster captriker notes: the Google fee is only levied if you do not return the device to them in the subscribed time.Google's terms of sale for the Nexus device [google.com] state:You agree to pay Google an equipment subsidy recovery fee (the "Equipment Recovery Fee") equal to the difference between the full price of the Nexus handheld device without service plan and the price you paid for the Nexus handheld device if you cancel your wireless plan prior to 120 days of continuous wireless service.
For example, if the full price of the Nexus handheld device without service plan was $529 USD and the price you paid for the Nexus handheld device was $179 USD with a service plan, the Equipment Recovery Fee you pay will be $350 USD in the event you cancel within the first 120 days of carrier service.
The Equipment Recovery Fee is equal to the line item in your confirmation email setting forth the discount on the full priced Nexus handheld device related to your carrier service plan activiation.
You authorize Google to charge the Equipment Recovery Fee directly to your credit card, or other payment method used to purchase the Nexus handheld device, upon cancellation of your wireless plan.
You will not be charged the Equipment Recovery Fee if you return your Nexus handheld device to Google within the 14 day Return Policy period as set forth below.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30744286</id>
	<title>Re:And buy what as an alternative?</title>
	<author>Antisyzygy</author>
	<datestamp>1263298380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You could get a netbook to check email, ect. They have cell service internet plans or you could go in any coffee shop, and many restaurants in this world to get wireless access. Then you could get yourself a cheaper, regular phone. I use a Samsung SCH-U650. Its compact, light, has long battery life, and it looks nice.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You could get a netbook to check email , ect .
They have cell service internet plans or you could go in any coffee shop , and many restaurants in this world to get wireless access .
Then you could get yourself a cheaper , regular phone .
I use a Samsung SCH-U650 .
Its compact , light , has long battery life , and it looks nice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could get a netbook to check email, ect.
They have cell service internet plans or you could go in any coffee shop, and many restaurants in this world to get wireless access.
Then you could get yourself a cheaper, regular phone.
I use a Samsung SCH-U650.
Its compact, light, has long battery life, and it looks nice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30746900</id>
	<title>Re:False alarm</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263315900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>You authorize Google to charge the Equipment Recovery Fee directly to your credit card, or other payment method used to purchase the Nexus handheld device, upon cancellation of your wireless plan.</i></p><p>Um, it was $179.00 from a $200 Visa gift card and I used the other $21.00 to buy gas to get to the store... knock yourselves out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You authorize Google to charge the Equipment Recovery Fee directly to your credit card , or other payment method used to purchase the Nexus handheld device , upon cancellation of your wireless plan.Um , it was $ 179.00 from a $ 200 Visa gift card and I used the other $ 21.00 to buy gas to get to the store... knock yourselves out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You authorize Google to charge the Equipment Recovery Fee directly to your credit card, or other payment method used to purchase the Nexus handheld device, upon cancellation of your wireless plan.Um, it was $179.00 from a $200 Visa gift card and I used the other $21.00 to buy gas to get to the store... knock yourselves out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743120</id>
	<title>Don't buy subsidized phones</title>
	<author>amRadioHed</author>
	<datestamp>1263292860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now that a US carrier finally allows it, just don't buy subsidized phones. You won't be charged any ETF and you're overall costs will be a few hundred dollars lower. Problem solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now that a US carrier finally allows it , just do n't buy subsidized phones .
You wo n't be charged any ETF and you 're overall costs will be a few hundred dollars lower .
Problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now that a US carrier finally allows it, just don't buy subsidized phones.
You won't be charged any ETF and you're overall costs will be a few hundred dollars lower.
Problem solved.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742956</id>
	<title>Hmmm</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263292080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Now to watch and see if the reaction by the FTC to Verizon's ETF on certain phones is the same as for Google/T-Mobile.  I'm no fan of Verizon but I'm curious to see if the FTC is truly blinded by the shiny goodwill that Google has with its users.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now to watch and see if the reaction by the FTC to Verizon 's ETF on certain phones is the same as for Google/T-Mobile .
I 'm no fan of Verizon but I 'm curious to see if the FTC is truly blinded by the shiny goodwill that Google has with its users .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now to watch and see if the reaction by the FTC to Verizon's ETF on certain phones is the same as for Google/T-Mobile.
I'm no fan of Verizon but I'm curious to see if the FTC is truly blinded by the shiny goodwill that Google has with its users.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742992</id>
	<title>It's not evil...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263292260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not evil, it's just business.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not evil , it 's just business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not evil, it's just business.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30746870</id>
	<title>Re:that sort of makes sense</title>
	<author>ceoyoyo</author>
	<datestamp>1263315720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It could be used as an advertising trick.  If someone accuses T-Mobile of having an unusually large ETF they may be tempted to say "nuh uh, it's only $200."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It could be used as an advertising trick .
If someone accuses T-Mobile of having an unusually large ETF they may be tempted to say " nuh uh , it 's only $ 200 .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It could be used as an advertising trick.
If someone accuses T-Mobile of having an unusually large ETF they may be tempted to say "nuh uh, it's only $200.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30744472</id>
	<title>Engraving</title>
	<author>supersat</author>
	<datestamp>1263299220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There's some equally-questionable terms in the sales agreement:<blockquote><div><p>You may not cancel these Terms and return a Device that has been engraved with a personal message of any sort regardless of where you reside.

Devices that were not successfully delivered to you will be returned to Google and Google will issue a refund to the credit card or other payment method originally charged for the order. The amount of the refund will be the original purchase amount, minus shipping charges and any refurbishing fees associated with engraving. Specifically, returned delivery of Devices that have been engraved with a personal message will result in a $45 USD engraving fee.</p></div></blockquote><p>

I can understand them not wanting to accept returns of customized devices... But if someone other than you (say, Fedex, or the notorious Brightstar, which handled fulfillment for the Android Dev Phones and royally screwed up the XO laptop shipments) screws up and gets returned to Google, they charge you a $45 fee. Presumably this fee covers the cost of restoring the phone to its original condition -- but if they can do that, why not just charge that fee for returned devices, instead of outright rejecting them?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's some equally-questionable terms in the sales agreement : You may not cancel these Terms and return a Device that has been engraved with a personal message of any sort regardless of where you reside .
Devices that were not successfully delivered to you will be returned to Google and Google will issue a refund to the credit card or other payment method originally charged for the order .
The amount of the refund will be the original purchase amount , minus shipping charges and any refurbishing fees associated with engraving .
Specifically , returned delivery of Devices that have been engraved with a personal message will result in a $ 45 USD engraving fee .
I can understand them not wanting to accept returns of customized devices... But if someone other than you ( say , Fedex , or the notorious Brightstar , which handled fulfillment for the Android Dev Phones and royally screwed up the XO laptop shipments ) screws up and gets returned to Google , they charge you a $ 45 fee .
Presumably this fee covers the cost of restoring the phone to its original condition -- but if they can do that , why not just charge that fee for returned devices , instead of outright rejecting them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's some equally-questionable terms in the sales agreement:You may not cancel these Terms and return a Device that has been engraved with a personal message of any sort regardless of where you reside.
Devices that were not successfully delivered to you will be returned to Google and Google will issue a refund to the credit card or other payment method originally charged for the order.
The amount of the refund will be the original purchase amount, minus shipping charges and any refurbishing fees associated with engraving.
Specifically, returned delivery of Devices that have been engraved with a personal message will result in a $45 USD engraving fee.
I can understand them not wanting to accept returns of customized devices... But if someone other than you (say, Fedex, or the notorious Brightstar, which handled fulfillment for the Android Dev Phones and royally screwed up the XO laptop shipments) screws up and gets returned to Google, they charge you a $45 fee.
Presumably this fee covers the cost of restoring the phone to its original condition -- but if they can do that, why not just charge that fee for returned devices, instead of outright rejecting them?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30752272</id>
	<title>Re:Your not paying for a phone...</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1263405180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>It is a PHONE for fucks sake.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/sigh<br></i><br>No, POTS is a phone, a cell phone is a computer and radio. Your cell phone is a more powerful computer than any computer that existed in 1970.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is a PHONE for fucks sake .
/sighNo , POTS is a phone , a cell phone is a computer and radio .
Your cell phone is a more powerful computer than any computer that existed in 1970 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is a PHONE for fucks sake.
/sighNo, POTS is a phone, a cell phone is a computer and radio.
Your cell phone is a more powerful computer than any computer that existed in 1970.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30746794</id>
	<title>Re:And buy what as an alternative?</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1263315000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job, and keep in touch with my family.</i></p><p>If you need a phone to do your job, get your employer to pay for it. As for keeping in touch with your family, I never had any problems with that a decade ago when I had no cell phone.</p><p><i>Exactly what do I do? Buy one of those crappy PAYGO cell phones that break in 6 months, and has no features?</i></p><p>Sure, why not?</p><p><i>How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those?</i></p><p>Use a computer.</p><p><i>Telling me not to buy it when there are no choices for me is not a choice, it's basically telling me to find a job and a lifestyle that doesn't require a cell phone.</i></p><p>Ok... and?</p><p>Look, I'm sorry that life involves making choices. But sometimes you just have to cope.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job , and keep in touch with my family.If you need a phone to do your job , get your employer to pay for it .
As for keeping in touch with your family , I never had any problems with that a decade ago when I had no cell phone.Exactly what do I do ?
Buy one of those crappy PAYGO cell phones that break in 6 months , and has no features ? Sure , why not ? How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those ? Use a computer.Telling me not to buy it when there are no choices for me is not a choice , it 's basically telling me to find a job and a lifestyle that does n't require a cell phone.Ok... and ? Look , I 'm sorry that life involves making choices .
But sometimes you just have to cope .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job, and keep in touch with my family.If you need a phone to do your job, get your employer to pay for it.
As for keeping in touch with your family, I never had any problems with that a decade ago when I had no cell phone.Exactly what do I do?
Buy one of those crappy PAYGO cell phones that break in 6 months, and has no features?Sure, why not?How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those?Use a computer.Telling me not to buy it when there are no choices for me is not a choice, it's basically telling me to find a job and a lifestyle that doesn't require a cell phone.Ok... and?Look, I'm sorry that life involves making choices.
But sometimes you just have to cope.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30744686</id>
	<title>Re:Your not paying for a phone...</title>
	<author>jjoelc</author>
	<datestamp>1263300360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>True enough. Why does an iPhone or the Nexus One cost so much, when a netbook costs so little? Why do Calvin Clien Jeans cost so much when Faded Glory cost so little...</p><p>But I also have to agree that the cell system here in the US sucks. You should buy the phone... then choose your carrier... They are separate things. Then the phone manufacturers get to compete on phones, and carriers get to compete on service. The idea scares the hell out of both groups, so it must be good, right?</p><p>Me, I have a work phone provided by the company. I amswer it because I have to. I don't particularly want to talk to anyone else on it. My wife has a prepaid unlimited plan. The phones aren't as snazzy, but they are getting better, no contracts, no minutes/data/txt fees etc... just a phone, some cash up front, and the option to pay again later if you liked the service.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>True enough .
Why does an iPhone or the Nexus One cost so much , when a netbook costs so little ?
Why do Calvin Clien Jeans cost so much when Faded Glory cost so little...But I also have to agree that the cell system here in the US sucks .
You should buy the phone... then choose your carrier... They are separate things .
Then the phone manufacturers get to compete on phones , and carriers get to compete on service .
The idea scares the hell out of both groups , so it must be good , right ? Me , I have a work phone provided by the company .
I amswer it because I have to .
I do n't particularly want to talk to anyone else on it .
My wife has a prepaid unlimited plan .
The phones are n't as snazzy , but they are getting better , no contracts , no minutes/data/txt fees etc... just a phone , some cash up front , and the option to pay again later if you liked the service .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True enough.
Why does an iPhone or the Nexus One cost so much, when a netbook costs so little?
Why do Calvin Clien Jeans cost so much when Faded Glory cost so little...But I also have to agree that the cell system here in the US sucks.
You should buy the phone... then choose your carrier... They are separate things.
Then the phone manufacturers get to compete on phones, and carriers get to compete on service.
The idea scares the hell out of both groups, so it must be good, right?Me, I have a work phone provided by the company.
I amswer it because I have to.
I don't particularly want to talk to anyone else on it.
My wife has a prepaid unlimited plan.
The phones aren't as snazzy, but they are getting better, no contracts, no minutes/data/txt fees etc... just a phone, some cash up front, and the option to pay again later if you liked the service.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743758</id>
	<title>Re:Separate handset and communications charges</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263295920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you're a clueless idiot that knows shit about the Nexus One and T-Mobile.  Apparently the moderators that modded your dumbass up are also equally as stupid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you 're a clueless idiot that knows shit about the Nexus One and T-Mobile .
Apparently the moderators that modded your dumbass up are also equally as stupid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you're a clueless idiot that knows shit about the Nexus One and T-Mobile.
Apparently the moderators that modded your dumbass up are also equally as stupid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30744260</id>
	<title>Re:Separate handset and communications charges</title>
	<author>harlows\_monkeys</author>
	<datestamp>1263298200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Carriers justify ETFs on the basis of having to subsidize handsets, but they turn around and charge the SAME amount to customers who aren't taking advantage of the subsidy</p></div><p>$179 is not the same as $529.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Carriers justify ETFs on the basis of having to subsidize handsets , but they turn around and charge the SAME amount to customers who are n't taking advantage of the subsidy $ 179 is not the same as $ 529 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Carriers justify ETFs on the basis of having to subsidize handsets, but they turn around and charge the SAME amount to customers who aren't taking advantage of the subsidy$179 is not the same as $529.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30746168</id>
	<title>Re:Legal?</title>
	<author>pclminion</author>
	<datestamp>1263309600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <em>What's to keep it to spreading from other industries</em> </p><p>Customers' refusal to buy such devices. Next question?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's to keep it to spreading from other industries Customers ' refusal to buy such devices .
Next question ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> What's to keep it to spreading from other industries Customers' refusal to buy such devices.
Next question?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30744226</id>
	<title>Re:I'll stick with my Rogers Wireless iPhone</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263298020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sorry, but whoever sold you that phone lied to you.</p><p>Roger's Early Cancellation Fee policy is as follows:<br>"An Early Cancellation Fee (ECF) applies if, for any reason, your service is terminated prior to the end of the service agreement. The ECF is the greater of (ii) $100 or (iii) $20 per month remaining in the service agreement, to a maximum of $400 (plus applicable taxes), and applies on each line in the plan that is terminated.  A Data Early Cancellation Fee (DECF) also applies if, for any reason, your service is terminated prior to the end of your plan&rsquo;s commitment term (Data Term). The DECF is the greater of (i) $25 or (ii) $5 per month remaining in the Data Term, to a maximum of $100 (plus applicable taxes), and applies in addition to the ECF for termination of your service agreement. If you subscribe to a plan combining both voice and data services, both the ECF and the DECF apply."</p><p>So, $200 is the early termination fee if you are within 5 months of the end of your THREE YEAR contract (Not two years, like US iPhone plans).  If you cancel in the first 31 months of your contract you will pay more than $200; up to a maximum of $500 for any cancellation in the first 16 months of your contract.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sorry , but whoever sold you that phone lied to you.Roger 's Early Cancellation Fee policy is as follows : " An Early Cancellation Fee ( ECF ) applies if , for any reason , your service is terminated prior to the end of the service agreement .
The ECF is the greater of ( ii ) $ 100 or ( iii ) $ 20 per month remaining in the service agreement , to a maximum of $ 400 ( plus applicable taxes ) , and applies on each line in the plan that is terminated .
A Data Early Cancellation Fee ( DECF ) also applies if , for any reason , your service is terminated prior to the end of your plan    s commitment term ( Data Term ) .
The DECF is the greater of ( i ) $ 25 or ( ii ) $ 5 per month remaining in the Data Term , to a maximum of $ 100 ( plus applicable taxes ) , and applies in addition to the ECF for termination of your service agreement .
If you subscribe to a plan combining both voice and data services , both the ECF and the DECF apply .
" So , $ 200 is the early termination fee if you are within 5 months of the end of your THREE YEAR contract ( Not two years , like US iPhone plans ) .
If you cancel in the first 31 months of your contract you will pay more than $ 200 ; up to a maximum of $ 500 for any cancellation in the first 16 months of your contract .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sorry, but whoever sold you that phone lied to you.Roger's Early Cancellation Fee policy is as follows:"An Early Cancellation Fee (ECF) applies if, for any reason, your service is terminated prior to the end of the service agreement.
The ECF is the greater of (ii) $100 or (iii) $20 per month remaining in the service agreement, to a maximum of $400 (plus applicable taxes), and applies on each line in the plan that is terminated.
A Data Early Cancellation Fee (DECF) also applies if, for any reason, your service is terminated prior to the end of your plan’s commitment term (Data Term).
The DECF is the greater of (i) $25 or (ii) $5 per month remaining in the Data Term, to a maximum of $100 (plus applicable taxes), and applies in addition to the ECF for termination of your service agreement.
If you subscribe to a plan combining both voice and data services, both the ECF and the DECF apply.
"So, $200 is the early termination fee if you are within 5 months of the end of your THREE YEAR contract (Not two years, like US iPhone plans).
If you cancel in the first 31 months of your contract you will pay more than $200; up to a maximum of $500 for any cancellation in the first 16 months of your contract.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742990</id>
	<title>Way to Dumb, guys!</title>
	<author>copponex</author>
	<datestamp>1263292200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google states that if you cancel the contract within the first four months, you have to pay them the for the rest of the phone. ($350 + $180 = $530)</p><p>The T-Mobile fine print says:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>THE EARLY TERMINATION FEE IS: $200 IF YOU TERMINATE WITH MORE THAN 180 DAYS REMAINING ON YOUR TERM; $100 IF YOU TERMINATE WITH 91 TO 180 DAYS REMAINING ON YOUR TERM; $50 IF YOU TERMINATE WITH 31 TO 91 DAYS REMAINING ON YOUR TERM; AND THE LESSER OF $50 OR YOUR MONTHLY RECURRING CHARGES (including any applicable taxes and fees) IF YOU TERMINATE IN THE LAST 30 DAYS OF YOUR TERM. The Early Termination Fee is part of our rates and is not a penalty.</p></div><p>How is Google double dipping by demanding no money if you cancel after 120 days?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Google states that if you cancel the contract within the first four months , you have to pay them the for the rest of the phone .
( $ 350 + $ 180 = $ 530 ) The T-Mobile fine print says : THE EARLY TERMINATION FEE IS : $ 200 IF YOU TERMINATE WITH MORE THAN 180 DAYS REMAINING ON YOUR TERM ; $ 100 IF YOU TERMINATE WITH 91 TO 180 DAYS REMAINING ON YOUR TERM ; $ 50 IF YOU TERMINATE WITH 31 TO 91 DAYS REMAINING ON YOUR TERM ; AND THE LESSER OF $ 50 OR YOUR MONTHLY RECURRING CHARGES ( including any applicable taxes and fees ) IF YOU TERMINATE IN THE LAST 30 DAYS OF YOUR TERM .
The Early Termination Fee is part of our rates and is not a penalty.How is Google double dipping by demanding no money if you cancel after 120 days ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google states that if you cancel the contract within the first four months, you have to pay them the for the rest of the phone.
($350 + $180 = $530)The T-Mobile fine print says:THE EARLY TERMINATION FEE IS: $200 IF YOU TERMINATE WITH MORE THAN 180 DAYS REMAINING ON YOUR TERM; $100 IF YOU TERMINATE WITH 91 TO 180 DAYS REMAINING ON YOUR TERM; $50 IF YOU TERMINATE WITH 31 TO 91 DAYS REMAINING ON YOUR TERM; AND THE LESSER OF $50 OR YOUR MONTHLY RECURRING CHARGES (including any applicable taxes and fees) IF YOU TERMINATE IN THE LAST 30 DAYS OF YOUR TERM.
The Early Termination Fee is part of our rates and is not a penalty.How is Google double dipping by demanding no money if you cancel after 120 days?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742768</id>
	<title>oh no, that sounds...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...evil</p><p>quick, somebody justify and rationalize it</p><p>whew, that was a close one!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...evilquick , somebody justify and rationalize itwhew , that was a close one !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...evilquick, somebody justify and rationalize itwhew, that was a close one!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30746918</id>
	<title>Re:False alarm</title>
	<author>ceoyoyo</author>
	<datestamp>1263316080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Huh, so if Google is recouping the entire phone-with-contract discount, what exactly is T-Mobile's ETF for?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Huh , so if Google is recouping the entire phone-with-contract discount , what exactly is T-Mobile 's ETF for ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Huh, so if Google is recouping the entire phone-with-contract discount, what exactly is T-Mobile's ETF for?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30747888</id>
	<title>Does it work skiing -60  Celsius</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263413460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why You can't use the Nexus One not as a modem for<br>the laptop or any desktop in an emergency case?The<br>rooting of android should allow a machine recovery<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... .</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why You ca n't use the Nexus One not as a modem forthe laptop or any desktop in an emergency case ? Therooting of android should allow a machine recovery ... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why You can't use the Nexus One not as a modem forthe laptop or any desktop in an emergency case?Therooting of android should allow a machine recovery ... .</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30744544</id>
	<title>Re:And buy what as an alternative?</title>
	<author>MMC Monster</author>
	<datestamp>1263299580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>See my problem with "don't buy it" in the cell phone market is that there aren't enough alternatives.  Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job, and keep in touch with my family.  Exactly what do I do?</p></div><p>How did people do your job 10 years ago?  If it's necessary for the job, the employer should probably ante-in on the device.</p><p>How did you keep in touch with your family 10 years ago.  If you were using a smart phone then, isn't it paid for in full by now?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>See my problem with " do n't buy it " in the cell phone market is that there are n't enough alternatives .
Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job , and keep in touch with my family .
Exactly what do I do ? How did people do your job 10 years ago ?
If it 's necessary for the job , the employer should probably ante-in on the device.How did you keep in touch with your family 10 years ago .
If you were using a smart phone then , is n't it paid for in full by now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See my problem with "don't buy it" in the cell phone market is that there aren't enough alternatives.
Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job, and keep in touch with my family.
Exactly what do I do?How did people do your job 10 years ago?
If it's necessary for the job, the employer should probably ante-in on the device.How did you keep in touch with your family 10 years ago.
If you were using a smart phone then, isn't it paid for in full by now?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742944</id>
	<title>Re:I'll stick with my Rogers Wireless iPhone</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263292020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Err... from Rogers: "The ECF is the greater of (ii) $100 or (iii) $20 per month remaining in the service agreement, to a maximum of $400 (plus applicable taxes), and applies on each line in the plan that is terminated."</p><p>Also... Rogers revised their phone upgrade terms... now it's like a min of 2 yrs before you qualify for phone upgrade discounts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Err... from Rogers : " The ECF is the greater of ( ii ) $ 100 or ( iii ) $ 20 per month remaining in the service agreement , to a maximum of $ 400 ( plus applicable taxes ) , and applies on each line in the plan that is terminated. " Also.. .
Rogers revised their phone upgrade terms... now it 's like a min of 2 yrs before you qualify for phone upgrade discounts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Err... from Rogers: "The ECF is the greater of (ii) $100 or (iii) $20 per month remaining in the service agreement, to a maximum of $400 (plus applicable taxes), and applies on each line in the plan that is terminated."Also...
Rogers revised their phone upgrade terms... now it's like a min of 2 yrs before you qualify for phone upgrade discounts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743626</id>
	<title>Just buy the damn thing already...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263295080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't understand why Americans make such a fuss over this. Just get your phone and a cheaper service plan separate and you will ALWAYS be better of than with a subsidized deal in the long run.</p><p>If everyone does this then they will drop these ridiculous schemes and we might see some competition based on price/quality.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand why Americans make such a fuss over this .
Just get your phone and a cheaper service plan separate and you will ALWAYS be better of than with a subsidized deal in the long run.If everyone does this then they will drop these ridiculous schemes and we might see some competition based on price/quality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't understand why Americans make such a fuss over this.
Just get your phone and a cheaper service plan separate and you will ALWAYS be better of than with a subsidized deal in the long run.If everyone does this then they will drop these ridiculous schemes and we might see some competition based on price/quality.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742980</id>
	<title>120 days is enough</title>
	<author>solu007</author>
	<datestamp>1263292140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>120 days is a long time<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... I will probally buy a new one then<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</htmltext>
<tokenext>120 days is a long time ... I will probally buy a new one then ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>120 days is a long time ... I will probally buy a new one then ;-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743784</id>
	<title>The first time I scanned your post</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263295980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought you said "I went with the T-Mobile Even More Pus plan".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought you said " I went with the T-Mobile Even More Pus plan " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought you said "I went with the T-Mobile Even More Pus plan".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742830</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743492</id>
	<title>Re:Separate handset and communications charges</title>
	<author>bgarcia</author>
	<datestamp>1263294420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <em>If you buy the phone on a contract, you pay $80 a month.  If you buy the phone without a contract, you still pay $80 a month.</em></p></div> </blockquote><p>That's no longer true.  T-mobile introduced no-contract plans last year that cost less, but don't include a subsidized phone.  This is what I'm using. (2-line family plan with 500 shared minutes and unlimited data &amp; texting, for $110)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you buy the phone on a contract , you pay $ 80 a month .
If you buy the phone without a contract , you still pay $ 80 a month .
That 's no longer true .
T-mobile introduced no-contract plans last year that cost less , but do n't include a subsidized phone .
This is what I 'm using .
( 2-line family plan with 500 shared minutes and unlimited data &amp; texting , for $ 110 )</tokentext>
<sentencetext> If you buy the phone on a contract, you pay $80 a month.
If you buy the phone without a contract, you still pay $80 a month.
That's no longer true.
T-mobile introduced no-contract plans last year that cost less, but don't include a subsidized phone.
This is what I'm using.
(2-line family plan with 500 shared minutes and unlimited data &amp; texting, for $110)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30751612</id>
	<title>Re:And buy what as an alternative?</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1263402480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i> Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job, and keep in touch with my family. Exactly what do I do? Buy one of those crappy PAYGO cell phones that break in 6 months, and has no features? How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those?</i></p><p>I use Boost Mobile and a Motorola i776 phone. The phone seems sturdy; I've dropped it quite often with no ill effects, I've had this one about six months (lost the previous one). I get local and long distance voice, email, text, internet (bad internet unfortunately but I guess I could tether), and voicemail, all unlimited for a $50 per month flat fee. The phone cost $106, there was a forty or fifty (I don't remember) dollar one-time connection fee when I bought the phone.</p><p>No contract, and I'm anonymous to them (unless I sign into their website). You pay the fifty bucks with a card you get at any convinience store, just like one of the paygo minute phones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job , and keep in touch with my family .
Exactly what do I do ?
Buy one of those crappy PAYGO cell phones that break in 6 months , and has no features ?
How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those ? I use Boost Mobile and a Motorola i776 phone .
The phone seems sturdy ; I 've dropped it quite often with no ill effects , I 've had this one about six months ( lost the previous one ) .
I get local and long distance voice , email , text , internet ( bad internet unfortunately but I guess I could tether ) , and voicemail , all unlimited for a $ 50 per month flat fee .
The phone cost $ 106 , there was a forty or fifty ( I do n't remember ) dollar one-time connection fee when I bought the phone.No contract , and I 'm anonymous to them ( unless I sign into their website ) .
You pay the fifty bucks with a card you get at any convinience store , just like one of the paygo minute phones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job, and keep in touch with my family.
Exactly what do I do?
Buy one of those crappy PAYGO cell phones that break in 6 months, and has no features?
How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those?I use Boost Mobile and a Motorola i776 phone.
The phone seems sturdy; I've dropped it quite often with no ill effects, I've had this one about six months (lost the previous one).
I get local and long distance voice, email, text, internet (bad internet unfortunately but I guess I could tether), and voicemail, all unlimited for a $50 per month flat fee.
The phone cost $106, there was a forty or fifty (I don't remember) dollar one-time connection fee when I bought the phone.No contract, and I'm anonymous to them (unless I sign into their website).
You pay the fifty bucks with a card you get at any convinience store, just like one of the paygo minute phones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743878</id>
	<title>Buy without contract, then!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263296400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>See, all of that is yet another excellent reason to buy phones without contract. With the Nexus One, you actually can. Thank you, Google!</p><p>Those contract/phone bundles do not actually save you any money. Just say "no"...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>See , all of that is yet another excellent reason to buy phones without contract .
With the Nexus One , you actually can .
Thank you , Google ! Those contract/phone bundles do not actually save you any money .
Just say " no " .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See, all of that is yet another excellent reason to buy phones without contract.
With the Nexus One, you actually can.
Thank you, Google!Those contract/phone bundles do not actually save you any money.
Just say "no"...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743050</id>
	<title>iPhone Media Fanboys Are In Panic Mode</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263292500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After getting a free ride in the media for so long the iPhone fanboys are in desperation mode with the massive success of Android and Google having the best cellphone on the market with the incredible Nexus One.</p><p>They are pretty much throwing every bit of FUD they can come up with and just hoping some percentage of it sticks.</p><p>Remember folks, the "OMG!! iPhone!!!" is what their owners base their own personal self worth on. Android isn't just a threat to Apple's third place in the cellphone market, it's a dire threat to hipster iPhone douchebag owners themselves.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After getting a free ride in the media for so long the iPhone fanboys are in desperation mode with the massive success of Android and Google having the best cellphone on the market with the incredible Nexus One.They are pretty much throwing every bit of FUD they can come up with and just hoping some percentage of it sticks.Remember folks , the " OMG ! !
iPhone ! ! ! " is what their owners base their own personal self worth on .
Android is n't just a threat to Apple 's third place in the cellphone market , it 's a dire threat to hipster iPhone douchebag owners themselves .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>After getting a free ride in the media for so long the iPhone fanboys are in desperation mode with the massive success of Android and Google having the best cellphone on the market with the incredible Nexus One.They are pretty much throwing every bit of FUD they can come up with and just hoping some percentage of it sticks.Remember folks, the "OMG!!
iPhone!!!" is what their owners base their own personal self worth on.
Android isn't just a threat to Apple's third place in the cellphone market, it's a dire threat to hipster iPhone douchebag owners themselves.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30747514</id>
	<title>Re:WOW, slashdot IS full of GOOG fanboys...</title>
	<author>Tweezer</author>
	<datestamp>1263321660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Imagine the messages if it was Microsoft doing this.  And even better would be if Comcast was somehow providing the service.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine the messages if it was Microsoft doing this .
And even better would be if Comcast was somehow providing the service .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine the messages if it was Microsoft doing this.
And even better would be if Comcast was somehow providing the service.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743332</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30744700</id>
	<title>Re:And buy what as an alternative?</title>
	<author>farble1670</author>
	<datestamp>1263300420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>no options?</p><p>you can buy just about any smart phone you want unlocked and be completely free of any contract or impending ETF.</p><p>i'll never buy a phone under contract again. i bought and unlocked N1 and my wife has an out of contract iphone. if my provider does something i don't like, i leave. problem solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>no options ? you can buy just about any smart phone you want unlocked and be completely free of any contract or impending ETF.i 'll never buy a phone under contract again .
i bought and unlocked N1 and my wife has an out of contract iphone .
if my provider does something i do n't like , i leave .
problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>no options?you can buy just about any smart phone you want unlocked and be completely free of any contract or impending ETF.i'll never buy a phone under contract again.
i bought and unlocked N1 and my wife has an out of contract iphone.
if my provider does something i don't like, i leave.
problem solved.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743152</id>
	<title>Re:False alarm</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263292980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So if you break the contract after 120 days your cost of ownership would be $179 inital price + $200 etf for a total of $379 or a $150 discount. Not a bad deal.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So if you break the contract after 120 days your cost of ownership would be $ 179 inital price + $ 200 etf for a total of $ 379 or a $ 150 discount .
Not a bad deal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So if you break the contract after 120 days your cost of ownership would be $179 inital price + $200 etf for a total of $379 or a $150 discount.
Not a bad deal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30746296</id>
	<title>Re:that sort of makes sense</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263310620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you like the Nexus One, remember that there's the Droid with Verizon's 3G coverage behind it.  You won't save anything on your monthly bill, but you'll have a MUCH stronger 3G network.  Having switched from an iPhone to a Droid, it's just awesome to be pretty much anywhere and have 3G rather than having to deal with EDGE.</p><p>I really don't understand why anyone would choose to stay with ATT if they care about 3G.  Either switch to Sprint (save almost 1/2 for much better 3G) or Verizon (no savings but 3G almost everywhere)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you like the Nexus One , remember that there 's the Droid with Verizon 's 3G coverage behind it .
You wo n't save anything on your monthly bill , but you 'll have a MUCH stronger 3G network .
Having switched from an iPhone to a Droid , it 's just awesome to be pretty much anywhere and have 3G rather than having to deal with EDGE.I really do n't understand why anyone would choose to stay with ATT if they care about 3G .
Either switch to Sprint ( save almost 1/2 for much better 3G ) or Verizon ( no savings but 3G almost everywhere )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you like the Nexus One, remember that there's the Droid with Verizon's 3G coverage behind it.
You won't save anything on your monthly bill, but you'll have a MUCH stronger 3G network.
Having switched from an iPhone to a Droid, it's just awesome to be pretty much anywhere and have 3G rather than having to deal with EDGE.I really don't understand why anyone would choose to stay with ATT if they care about 3G.
Either switch to Sprint (save almost 1/2 for much better 3G) or Verizon (no savings but 3G almost everywhere)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742830</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30744776</id>
	<title>Re:Separate handset and communications charges</title>
	<author>farble1670</author>
	<datestamp>1263300840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <em>If you buy the phone on a contract, you pay $80 a month.  If you buy the phone without a contract, you still pay $80 a month.</em> </p><p>in general you are right, but for t-mo that's not the case. they have discounted month-month plans. they are the only provider that has this sort of pricing. i wish they'd get more kudos for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you buy the phone on a contract , you pay $ 80 a month .
If you buy the phone without a contract , you still pay $ 80 a month .
in general you are right , but for t-mo that 's not the case .
they have discounted month-month plans .
they are the only provider that has this sort of pricing .
i wish they 'd get more kudos for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> If you buy the phone on a contract, you pay $80 a month.
If you buy the phone without a contract, you still pay $80 a month.
in general you are right, but for t-mo that's not the case.
they have discounted month-month plans.
they are the only provider that has this sort of pricing.
i wish they'd get more kudos for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30749968</id>
	<title>Re:oh no, that sounds...</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1263395580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The phones are subsidized. If you pay full price for your phone you have no termination fee with most carriers. I don't see anything evil about it.</p><p>That's not to say that Google has never done evil, though. But in this cas it isn't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The phones are subsidized .
If you pay full price for your phone you have no termination fee with most carriers .
I do n't see anything evil about it.That 's not to say that Google has never done evil , though .
But in this cas it is n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The phones are subsidized.
If you pay full price for your phone you have no termination fee with most carriers.
I don't see anything evil about it.That's not to say that Google has never done evil, though.
But in this cas it isn't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742768</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743800</id>
	<title>Re:I'll stick with my Rogers Wireless iPhone</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263296040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You sure about that?</p><p>They changed it to maximum of $400 some time ago.</p><p>Also, there's an early cancellation fee on the data plan you're likely also missing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You sure about that ? They changed it to maximum of $ 400 some time ago.Also , there 's an early cancellation fee on the data plan you 're likely also missing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You sure about that?They changed it to maximum of $400 some time ago.Also, there's an early cancellation fee on the data plan you're likely also missing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30744354</id>
	<title>Re:And buy what as an alternative?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263298620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>See my problem with "don't buy it" in the cell phone market is that there aren't enough alternatives. Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job, and keep in touch with my family. Exactly what do I do? Buy one of those crappy PAYGO cell phones that break in 6 months, and has no features? How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those?</i></p><p>There is a huge OTHER market. With gsm, you can buy unlocked cell phones from anywhere, pop in your SIM card, and away you go.</p><p>I've bought 6-month old blackberries for less than $100 on ebay (retail $600). Not to mention craigslist, newegg, and other retailers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>See my problem with " do n't buy it " in the cell phone market is that there are n't enough alternatives .
Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job , and keep in touch with my family .
Exactly what do I do ?
Buy one of those crappy PAYGO cell phones that break in 6 months , and has no features ?
How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those ? There is a huge OTHER market .
With gsm , you can buy unlocked cell phones from anywhere , pop in your SIM card , and away you go.I 've bought 6-month old blackberries for less than $ 100 on ebay ( retail $ 600 ) .
Not to mention craigslist , newegg , and other retailers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See my problem with "don't buy it" in the cell phone market is that there aren't enough alternatives.
Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job, and keep in touch with my family.
Exactly what do I do?
Buy one of those crappy PAYGO cell phones that break in 6 months, and has no features?
How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those?There is a huge OTHER market.
With gsm, you can buy unlocked cell phones from anywhere, pop in your SIM card, and away you go.I've bought 6-month old blackberries for less than $100 on ebay (retail $600).
Not to mention craigslist, newegg, and other retailers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30745516</id>
	<title>Re:Separate handset and communications charges</title>
	<author>initialE</author>
	<datestamp>1263305040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who wants a free market for phones? Only the consumers. There's a reason why your provider only sells you phones locked into their service, it's so that you are not free to migrate to another provider when you want. Over here where such practices are illegal, I'm having a hard time understanding your grief, since I've never owned a locked phone, but I can imagine it is pretty much a pain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who wants a free market for phones ?
Only the consumers .
There 's a reason why your provider only sells you phones locked into their service , it 's so that you are not free to migrate to another provider when you want .
Over here where such practices are illegal , I 'm having a hard time understanding your grief , since I 've never owned a locked phone , but I can imagine it is pretty much a pain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who wants a free market for phones?
Only the consumers.
There's a reason why your provider only sells you phones locked into their service, it's so that you are not free to migrate to another provider when you want.
Over here where such practices are illegal, I'm having a hard time understanding your grief, since I've never owned a locked phone, but I can imagine it is pretty much a pain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743576</id>
	<title>Re:Early termination fee (ETF)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263294900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>STFU, DIAF.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>STFU , DIAF .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>STFU, DIAF.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743786</id>
	<title>Your not paying for a phone...</title>
	<author>Anachragnome</author>
	<datestamp>1263296040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're not paying for a phone, you're paying for a status symbol.</p><p>My phone cost 59.99 6 years ago. Sure, it was subsidized, but I never paid more for it. I could have brought my own phone in, had them hook it up to their service and still had the service contract and I would have been charged 59.99 less.</p><p>My point is that you all seem to be bitching about paying for something that is SUPPOSED to be expensive. Otherwise, it wouldn't have that certain "bling" status as everyone would have one.</p><p>It is a PHONE for fucks sake.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/sigh</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're not paying for a phone , you 're paying for a status symbol.My phone cost 59.99 6 years ago .
Sure , it was subsidized , but I never paid more for it .
I could have brought my own phone in , had them hook it up to their service and still had the service contract and I would have been charged 59.99 less.My point is that you all seem to be bitching about paying for something that is SUPPOSED to be expensive .
Otherwise , it would n't have that certain " bling " status as everyone would have one.It is a PHONE for fucks sake .
/sigh</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're not paying for a phone, you're paying for a status symbol.My phone cost 59.99 6 years ago.
Sure, it was subsidized, but I never paid more for it.
I could have brought my own phone in, had them hook it up to their service and still had the service contract and I would have been charged 59.99 less.My point is that you all seem to be bitching about paying for something that is SUPPOSED to be expensive.
Otherwise, it wouldn't have that certain "bling" status as everyone would have one.It is a PHONE for fucks sake.
/sigh</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743718</id>
	<title>Re:that sort of makes sense</title>
	<author>jeffmeden</author>
	<datestamp>1263295680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, sorry, it doesn't make sense at all.  The point of an ETF is to deter people from signing a contract then bailing, just like you pointed out.  However, when you buy the phone, it still costs you $179 with a new contract via Tmobile (last I checked) so if the phone is $550 it would be fair that they would somehow have a $371 etf somewhere in there to cover the gap on the handset cost.</p><p>Aside from that, who is eating the handset cost here, and who is making up in subscription fees... Google or tmobile?  If it's google, then tmobile better not charge one red cent for the privilege of signing a contract for a paid for phone.  If it's Google, then why does t mobile get to charge an ETF at all?</p><p>Finally, unless Google is getting a kickback from t mobile for every month the phone is in contract, why would they care if you bought the phone then left t mobile?  You aren't going to put the phone on a shelf and never use it after you leave your contract; you will likely subscribe and keep on using it just the way Google wants.  They keep winning.  Why should they try to penalize you for leaving t mobile?</p><p>The only answers that make sense are thus:</p><p>A) Google is super greedy, plus tmobile is super greedy.<br>B) Google is kind of greedy, plus t mobile was too lazy to adjust the contract to exclude the ETF considering google fronts the phone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , sorry , it does n't make sense at all .
The point of an ETF is to deter people from signing a contract then bailing , just like you pointed out .
However , when you buy the phone , it still costs you $ 179 with a new contract via Tmobile ( last I checked ) so if the phone is $ 550 it would be fair that they would somehow have a $ 371 etf somewhere in there to cover the gap on the handset cost.Aside from that , who is eating the handset cost here , and who is making up in subscription fees... Google or tmobile ?
If it 's google , then tmobile better not charge one red cent for the privilege of signing a contract for a paid for phone .
If it 's Google , then why does t mobile get to charge an ETF at all ? Finally , unless Google is getting a kickback from t mobile for every month the phone is in contract , why would they care if you bought the phone then left t mobile ?
You are n't going to put the phone on a shelf and never use it after you leave your contract ; you will likely subscribe and keep on using it just the way Google wants .
They keep winning .
Why should they try to penalize you for leaving t mobile ? The only answers that make sense are thus : A ) Google is super greedy , plus tmobile is super greedy.B ) Google is kind of greedy , plus t mobile was too lazy to adjust the contract to exclude the ETF considering google fronts the phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, sorry, it doesn't make sense at all.
The point of an ETF is to deter people from signing a contract then bailing, just like you pointed out.
However, when you buy the phone, it still costs you $179 with a new contract via Tmobile (last I checked) so if the phone is $550 it would be fair that they would somehow have a $371 etf somewhere in there to cover the gap on the handset cost.Aside from that, who is eating the handset cost here, and who is making up in subscription fees... Google or tmobile?
If it's google, then tmobile better not charge one red cent for the privilege of signing a contract for a paid for phone.
If it's Google, then why does t mobile get to charge an ETF at all?Finally, unless Google is getting a kickback from t mobile for every month the phone is in contract, why would they care if you bought the phone then left t mobile?
You aren't going to put the phone on a shelf and never use it after you leave your contract; you will likely subscribe and keep on using it just the way Google wants.
They keep winning.
Why should they try to penalize you for leaving t mobile?The only answers that make sense are thus:A) Google is super greedy, plus tmobile is super greedy.B) Google is kind of greedy, plus t mobile was too lazy to adjust the contract to exclude the ETF considering google fronts the phone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742786</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743402</id>
	<title>And buy what as an alternative?</title>
	<author>hellfire</author>
	<datestamp>1263294060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>See my problem with "don't buy it" in the cell phone market is that there aren't enough alternatives.  Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job, and keep in touch with my family.  Exactly what do I do?  Buy one of those crappy PAYGO cell phones that break in 6 months, and has no features?  How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those?  We need OSes in the market like WebOS, the iPhone and Android, but in order to take advantage of them, yes the cell phone companies aren't competing to get my dollar, they are colluding to drive prices up while not improving their service at the same rate.</p><p>Every cell phone company is trying to pull bullshit because they all learned that a) the best way to make money is to try to either force people into a contract or try to trick them and b) the American government as it stands now simply is unwilling and incapable of properly regulating and policing them.  We can't even get proper banking or health reform ion this country, cell phone reform on pricing is significantly further down the list.  Telling me not to buy it when there are no choices for me is not a choice, it's basically telling me to find a job and a lifestyle that doesn't require a cell phone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>See my problem with " do n't buy it " in the cell phone market is that there are n't enough alternatives .
Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job , and keep in touch with my family .
Exactly what do I do ?
Buy one of those crappy PAYGO cell phones that break in 6 months , and has no features ?
How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those ?
We need OSes in the market like WebOS , the iPhone and Android , but in order to take advantage of them , yes the cell phone companies are n't competing to get my dollar , they are colluding to drive prices up while not improving their service at the same rate.Every cell phone company is trying to pull bullshit because they all learned that a ) the best way to make money is to try to either force people into a contract or try to trick them and b ) the American government as it stands now simply is unwilling and incapable of properly regulating and policing them .
We ca n't even get proper banking or health reform ion this country , cell phone reform on pricing is significantly further down the list .
Telling me not to buy it when there are no choices for me is not a choice , it 's basically telling me to find a job and a lifestyle that does n't require a cell phone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>See my problem with "don't buy it" in the cell phone market is that there aren't enough alternatives.
Okay so I need a cell phone to do my job, and keep in touch with my family.
Exactly what do I do?
Buy one of those crappy PAYGO cell phones that break in 6 months, and has no features?
How do I check my email and keep my calendar with one of those?
We need OSes in the market like WebOS, the iPhone and Android, but in order to take advantage of them, yes the cell phone companies aren't competing to get my dollar, they are colluding to drive prices up while not improving their service at the same rate.Every cell phone company is trying to pull bullshit because they all learned that a) the best way to make money is to try to either force people into a contract or try to trick them and b) the American government as it stands now simply is unwilling and incapable of properly regulating and policing them.
We can't even get proper banking or health reform ion this country, cell phone reform on pricing is significantly further down the list.
Telling me not to buy it when there are no choices for me is not a choice, it's basically telling me to find a job and a lifestyle that doesn't require a cell phone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30744124</id>
	<title>A reverse rebate</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263297420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've seen offers before where the manufacturer offers a $200 rebate on the phone after the 2nd or 3rd month of service.  They require you to send copies of your first X months of statements to show you've maintained your plan.  Everybody complains because the cost is"so high" up front, and the burden is on the customer to remember to send it in, follow the terms, etc.  If you mail it a day late, or forget your notarized original receipt, or the wind was blowing the wrong direction, the customer doesn't get the rebate and is screwed over.</p><p>Google goes the opposite route, gives the rebate up-front where the customer doesn't have to do anything to get it, and charge the customer later if they don't follow the terms by keeping their contract.  Customer doesn't have to wait on the rebate or do anything special other than pay their bill that they'd have to do otherwise.  No worry about forgetting to sign a 3rd dotted line or mail getting lost or delayed on the way to the processing center only to find out 3 months later it is denied.</p><p>In both cases the carrier still charges their ETF if the contract is canceled early.  I'm no Google fanboy, while I think they are *less* evil than many of the other big companies out there, they are still a business and are in the market to make money.  They have unheardof access to a ton of our private data and great influence over everybody's life, whether they realize it or not.  That being said, I fail to see the reason Google is being pointed out as the bad guy on this.  Amazon does the same thing, you get a bigger discount on the phone, yet according to their terms if you're *late* on a payment they will charge you for the difference.</p><p>I think the only evil party here is T-Mobile.  Supposedly the ETF is so the carrier doesn't get shafted by giving the customer $300 off the price of a handset only to have the customer cancel 2 months down the road and go to another carrier.  Since Google is providing the subsidy here (and charging the difference in the event of failure) T-Mobile has nothing to lose except a customer.  T-Mobile should be treating this as a no-contract phone providing the same discounts as their other Bring Your Own Phone plans.</p><p>It bothers me to see Google (or any company for that matter) being accused of being anti-customer when they're actually doing something to help the customer.  It bothers me moreso to see them blamed when they aren't the ones causing the problem in the first place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've seen offers before where the manufacturer offers a $ 200 rebate on the phone after the 2nd or 3rd month of service .
They require you to send copies of your first X months of statements to show you 've maintained your plan .
Everybody complains because the cost is " so high " up front , and the burden is on the customer to remember to send it in , follow the terms , etc .
If you mail it a day late , or forget your notarized original receipt , or the wind was blowing the wrong direction , the customer does n't get the rebate and is screwed over.Google goes the opposite route , gives the rebate up-front where the customer does n't have to do anything to get it , and charge the customer later if they do n't follow the terms by keeping their contract .
Customer does n't have to wait on the rebate or do anything special other than pay their bill that they 'd have to do otherwise .
No worry about forgetting to sign a 3rd dotted line or mail getting lost or delayed on the way to the processing center only to find out 3 months later it is denied.In both cases the carrier still charges their ETF if the contract is canceled early .
I 'm no Google fanboy , while I think they are * less * evil than many of the other big companies out there , they are still a business and are in the market to make money .
They have unheardof access to a ton of our private data and great influence over everybody 's life , whether they realize it or not .
That being said , I fail to see the reason Google is being pointed out as the bad guy on this .
Amazon does the same thing , you get a bigger discount on the phone , yet according to their terms if you 're * late * on a payment they will charge you for the difference.I think the only evil party here is T-Mobile .
Supposedly the ETF is so the carrier does n't get shafted by giving the customer $ 300 off the price of a handset only to have the customer cancel 2 months down the road and go to another carrier .
Since Google is providing the subsidy here ( and charging the difference in the event of failure ) T-Mobile has nothing to lose except a customer .
T-Mobile should be treating this as a no-contract phone providing the same discounts as their other Bring Your Own Phone plans.It bothers me to see Google ( or any company for that matter ) being accused of being anti-customer when they 're actually doing something to help the customer .
It bothers me moreso to see them blamed when they are n't the ones causing the problem in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've seen offers before where the manufacturer offers a $200 rebate on the phone after the 2nd or 3rd month of service.
They require you to send copies of your first X months of statements to show you've maintained your plan.
Everybody complains because the cost is"so high" up front, and the burden is on the customer to remember to send it in, follow the terms, etc.
If you mail it a day late, or forget your notarized original receipt, or the wind was blowing the wrong direction, the customer doesn't get the rebate and is screwed over.Google goes the opposite route, gives the rebate up-front where the customer doesn't have to do anything to get it, and charge the customer later if they don't follow the terms by keeping their contract.
Customer doesn't have to wait on the rebate or do anything special other than pay their bill that they'd have to do otherwise.
No worry about forgetting to sign a 3rd dotted line or mail getting lost or delayed on the way to the processing center only to find out 3 months later it is denied.In both cases the carrier still charges their ETF if the contract is canceled early.
I'm no Google fanboy, while I think they are *less* evil than many of the other big companies out there, they are still a business and are in the market to make money.
They have unheardof access to a ton of our private data and great influence over everybody's life, whether they realize it or not.
That being said, I fail to see the reason Google is being pointed out as the bad guy on this.
Amazon does the same thing, you get a bigger discount on the phone, yet according to their terms if you're *late* on a payment they will charge you for the difference.I think the only evil party here is T-Mobile.
Supposedly the ETF is so the carrier doesn't get shafted by giving the customer $300 off the price of a handset only to have the customer cancel 2 months down the road and go to another carrier.
Since Google is providing the subsidy here (and charging the difference in the event of failure) T-Mobile has nothing to lose except a customer.
T-Mobile should be treating this as a no-contract phone providing the same discounts as their other Bring Your Own Phone plans.It bothers me to see Google (or any company for that matter) being accused of being anti-customer when they're actually doing something to help the customer.
It bothers me moreso to see them blamed when they aren't the ones causing the problem in the first place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743592</id>
	<title>Isn't this a good thing?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263294960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From what I heard from Vodafone even the contract phones are entirely supplied direct from Google.</p><p>So unless I'm missing some figures badly here when cancelled Google just wants the phone cost covered, which is understandable, and even offer refunds if the device is returned within a MUCH broader time line than any carrier I've ever seen in the UK.</p><p>This just highlights the trumped up baseless charges from the carriers for doing no work and providing nothing that makes them even less defensible when the right people are questioning them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From what I heard from Vodafone even the contract phones are entirely supplied direct from Google.So unless I 'm missing some figures badly here when cancelled Google just wants the phone cost covered , which is understandable , and even offer refunds if the device is returned within a MUCH broader time line than any carrier I 've ever seen in the UK.This just highlights the trumped up baseless charges from the carriers for doing no work and providing nothing that makes them even less defensible when the right people are questioning them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From what I heard from Vodafone even the contract phones are entirely supplied direct from Google.So unless I'm missing some figures badly here when cancelled Google just wants the phone cost covered, which is understandable, and even offer refunds if the device is returned within a MUCH broader time line than any carrier I've ever seen in the UK.This just highlights the trumped up baseless charges from the carriers for doing no work and providing nothing that makes them even less defensible when the right people are questioning them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742974</id>
	<title>This seems reasonable</title>
	<author>bluefoxlucid</author>
	<datestamp>1263292140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You bought the phone, and inside 4 months you canceled your plan.  The phone is subsidized.  This seems reasonable.  I mean, consider the ETF could be Verizonized (i.e. strung out for the <b>entire</b> term of your plan, if you cancel a month early there's a huge ETF).</htmltext>
<tokenext>You bought the phone , and inside 4 months you canceled your plan .
The phone is subsidized .
This seems reasonable .
I mean , consider the ETF could be Verizonized ( i.e .
strung out for the entire term of your plan , if you cancel a month early there 's a huge ETF ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You bought the phone, and inside 4 months you canceled your plan.
The phone is subsidized.
This seems reasonable.
I mean, consider the ETF could be Verizonized (i.e.
strung out for the entire term of your plan, if you cancel a month early there's a huge ETF).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30744588</id>
	<title>Re:that sort of makes sense</title>
	<author>Nathanbp</author>
	<datestamp>1263299880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>T-Mobile told me that company discounts didn't apply to Even More Plus plans. If there's some way to get them, please share.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>T-Mobile told me that company discounts did n't apply to Even More Plus plans .
If there 's some way to get them , please share .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>T-Mobile told me that company discounts didn't apply to Even More Plus plans.
If there's some way to get them, please share.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742830</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743650</id>
	<title>Re:False alarm</title>
	<author>fermion</author>
	<datestamp>1263295200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In any case, I think the intent of the story, which is to say that Google is double dipping is true.  Anything over a $300 termination fee is excessive, especially since they are openly selling the unlocked version.  There is simply no incentive for a person to buy the subsidized phone with the intention of breaking the contract.  It in fact seems like a bait and switch scheme since it is so out of line with what consumers are used to, and these variances are evidently not prominently displayed on the purchase screen.  It shows that there is something fundamentally flawed with their model if consumers are going to liable for 2X purchase price if the contract is broken.
<p>
It is a worse deal than an iPhone.  No early termination fee if phone returned with 30 days, much better than a mere 2 weeks.  The nexus one must have questionable quality if there only a two week trial period.  Early termination fee is $175 versus $200, and is decremented $5 per month.
</p><p>
I always though the early termination fee was to recover subsidized cost of the phone.  I never thought you had to return the phone.  For instance, if someone lost a phone then the phone would not be able to be returned. I have seen statements of people canceling after 30 days and keeping the phone.  If google is charging for the phone after 30 days, then they are, arguably, doing evil.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In any case , I think the intent of the story , which is to say that Google is double dipping is true .
Anything over a $ 300 termination fee is excessive , especially since they are openly selling the unlocked version .
There is simply no incentive for a person to buy the subsidized phone with the intention of breaking the contract .
It in fact seems like a bait and switch scheme since it is so out of line with what consumers are used to , and these variances are evidently not prominently displayed on the purchase screen .
It shows that there is something fundamentally flawed with their model if consumers are going to liable for 2X purchase price if the contract is broken .
It is a worse deal than an iPhone .
No early termination fee if phone returned with 30 days , much better than a mere 2 weeks .
The nexus one must have questionable quality if there only a two week trial period .
Early termination fee is $ 175 versus $ 200 , and is decremented $ 5 per month .
I always though the early termination fee was to recover subsidized cost of the phone .
I never thought you had to return the phone .
For instance , if someone lost a phone then the phone would not be able to be returned .
I have seen statements of people canceling after 30 days and keeping the phone .
If google is charging for the phone after 30 days , then they are , arguably , doing evil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In any case, I think the intent of the story, which is to say that Google is double dipping is true.
Anything over a $300 termination fee is excessive, especially since they are openly selling the unlocked version.
There is simply no incentive for a person to buy the subsidized phone with the intention of breaking the contract.
It in fact seems like a bait and switch scheme since it is so out of line with what consumers are used to, and these variances are evidently not prominently displayed on the purchase screen.
It shows that there is something fundamentally flawed with their model if consumers are going to liable for 2X purchase price if the contract is broken.
It is a worse deal than an iPhone.
No early termination fee if phone returned with 30 days, much better than a mere 2 weeks.
The nexus one must have questionable quality if there only a two week trial period.
Early termination fee is $175 versus $200, and is decremented $5 per month.
I always though the early termination fee was to recover subsidized cost of the phone.
I never thought you had to return the phone.
For instance, if someone lost a phone then the phone would not be able to be returned.
I have seen statements of people canceling after 30 days and keeping the phone.
If google is charging for the phone after 30 days, then they are, arguably, doing evil.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742988</id>
	<title>And then?</title>
	<author>e2d2</author>
	<datestamp>1263292200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look, don't buy it then. It's that simple. This isn't access to a new heart they are selling, it's a cell phone and a premium one at that. Act like a grown up and read the contract then make a decision. Problem solved.</p><p>Too many "outrage" stories these days relating to luxuries and free services. Solution: Don't buy them or don't use them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , do n't buy it then .
It 's that simple .
This is n't access to a new heart they are selling , it 's a cell phone and a premium one at that .
Act like a grown up and read the contract then make a decision .
Problem solved.Too many " outrage " stories these days relating to luxuries and free services .
Solution : Do n't buy them or do n't use them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, don't buy it then.
It's that simple.
This isn't access to a new heart they are selling, it's a cell phone and a premium one at that.
Act like a grown up and read the contract then make a decision.
Problem solved.Too many "outrage" stories these days relating to luxuries and free services.
Solution: Don't buy them or don't use them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30748352</id>
	<title>MOD PARENT UP</title>
	<author>cyclomedia</author>
	<datestamp>1263377820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was going to make the exact point. If they can manage to bill seperate rates for calls, texts and internet then they should easily be able to seperate an entry for "handset"</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was going to make the exact point .
If they can manage to bill seperate rates for calls , texts and internet then they should easily be able to seperate an entry for " handset "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was going to make the exact point.
If they can manage to bill seperate rates for calls, texts and internet then they should easily be able to seperate an entry for "handset"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743146</id>
	<title>ETFs?</title>
	<author>Archangel Michael</author>
	<datestamp>1263292980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey, here's a NOVEL idea for those protesting ETFs. Pay FULL retail, and then shop for a service plan for the device.</p><p>Oh, only T-Mobile supports it? You don't get a service agreement discount for having your own phone? Darn.</p><p>In other words<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... PICK your poison.</p><p>Don't like either option, then get another phone from another vendor/telco. Don't like those vendors and service plans? Sucks for you doesn't it?</p><p>Or you can just suck it up and not terminate your service<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... you know<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... early. I know, shocking concept.</p><p>I should draw this up as a flowchart.</p><p>Or you can get one of those "disposable" VISA cards and stick it to the man. Anarchy Rules!!</p><p>Honestly, I don't know what the big deal is, other than people whining about wanting their cake and eating it too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , here 's a NOVEL idea for those protesting ETFs .
Pay FULL retail , and then shop for a service plan for the device.Oh , only T-Mobile supports it ?
You do n't get a service agreement discount for having your own phone ?
Darn.In other words ... PICK your poison.Do n't like either option , then get another phone from another vendor/telco .
Do n't like those vendors and service plans ?
Sucks for you does n't it ? Or you can just suck it up and not terminate your service ... you know ... early. I know , shocking concept.I should draw this up as a flowchart.Or you can get one of those " disposable " VISA cards and stick it to the man .
Anarchy Rules !
! Honestly , I do n't know what the big deal is , other than people whining about wanting their cake and eating it too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, here's a NOVEL idea for those protesting ETFs.
Pay FULL retail, and then shop for a service plan for the device.Oh, only T-Mobile supports it?
You don't get a service agreement discount for having your own phone?
Darn.In other words ... PICK your poison.Don't like either option, then get another phone from another vendor/telco.
Don't like those vendors and service plans?
Sucks for you doesn't it?Or you can just suck it up and not terminate your service ... you know ... early. I know, shocking concept.I should draw this up as a flowchart.Or you can get one of those "disposable" VISA cards and stick it to the man.
Anarchy Rules!
!Honestly, I don't know what the big deal is, other than people whining about wanting their cake and eating it too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743212</id>
	<title>Google: The Director's Cut</title>
	<author>Dogtanian</author>
	<datestamp>1263293280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wonder what's going to happen in the next decade or so, say around 2019 when Google will probably have launched the sixth or so version of the Nexus? These "smart" phones will have grown *so* damn smart that they'll have developed a survival instinct; if you cancel your contract, they'll have to send a representative of the telcos out to deal with them.<br> <br>
I suspect that by then it won't be called termination.<br> <br>
It will be called retirement.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder what 's going to happen in the next decade or so , say around 2019 when Google will probably have launched the sixth or so version of the Nexus ?
These " smart " phones will have grown * so * damn smart that they 'll have developed a survival instinct ; if you cancel your contract , they 'll have to send a representative of the telcos out to deal with them .
I suspect that by then it wo n't be called termination .
It will be called retirement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder what's going to happen in the next decade or so, say around 2019 when Google will probably have launched the sixth or so version of the Nexus?
These "smart" phones will have grown *so* damn smart that they'll have developed a survival instinct; if you cancel your contract, they'll have to send a representative of the telcos out to deal with them.
I suspect that by then it won't be called termination.
It will be called retirement.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743444</id>
	<title>Re:And then?</title>
	<author>geekmux</author>
	<datestamp>1263294180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Look, don't buy it then. It's that simple. This isn't access to a new heart they are selling, it's a cell phone and a premium one at that. Act like a grown up and read the contract then make a decision. Problem solved.</p><p>Too many "outrage" stories these days relating to luxuries and free services. Solution: Don't buy them or don't use them.</p></div><p>I couldn't agree more.  I really don't understand all the "outrage" over this, when the EXACT same practice has been going on in the form of "restocking fees" for years now with other forms of electronics.  I don't really see a difference, regardless of the amount vendor X is charging compared to vendor Y.</p><p>Either you learn to live with your buyers remorse, or pay up.  It's called personal responsibility.  I know, that's a fairly new term going around these days...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , do n't buy it then .
It 's that simple .
This is n't access to a new heart they are selling , it 's a cell phone and a premium one at that .
Act like a grown up and read the contract then make a decision .
Problem solved.Too many " outrage " stories these days relating to luxuries and free services .
Solution : Do n't buy them or do n't use them.I could n't agree more .
I really do n't understand all the " outrage " over this , when the EXACT same practice has been going on in the form of " restocking fees " for years now with other forms of electronics .
I do n't really see a difference , regardless of the amount vendor X is charging compared to vendor Y.Either you learn to live with your buyers remorse , or pay up .
It 's called personal responsibility .
I know , that 's a fairly new term going around these days.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, don't buy it then.
It's that simple.
This isn't access to a new heart they are selling, it's a cell phone and a premium one at that.
Act like a grown up and read the contract then make a decision.
Problem solved.Too many "outrage" stories these days relating to luxuries and free services.
Solution: Don't buy them or don't use them.I couldn't agree more.
I really don't understand all the "outrage" over this, when the EXACT same practice has been going on in the form of "restocking fees" for years now with other forms of electronics.
I don't really see a difference, regardless of the amount vendor X is charging compared to vendor Y.Either you learn to live with your buyers remorse, or pay up.
It's called personal responsibility.
I know, that's a fairly new term going around these days...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742988</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743122</id>
	<title>Separate handset and communications charges</title>
	<author>InakaBoyJoe</author>
	<datestamp>1263292860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you buy the phone on a contract, you pay $80 a month.  If you buy the phone without a contract, you still pay $80 a month.</p><p>Why aren't people questioning this practice?  Carriers justify ETFs on the basis of having to subsidize handsets, but they turn around and charge the SAME amount to customers who aren't taking advantage of the subsidy.  Thus artificially suppressing the market for unlocked / open phones.</p><p>The system in Japan makes more sense.  When you buy a phone, you choose to pay the full cost up front, or pay in 12 or 24 installments (and of course if you want to cash out early, you have to pay the remainder of the balance, just like any installment plan).  The communication charges are SEPARATE from the phone charges.  So the end result is that the user who wants a "free phone" simply pays a bit more monthly than the user who paid for their phone up front.</p><p>The money the carriers would save trying to explain, justify, and collect those arbitrary "early termination fees" probably justifies switching to this more sensible system.  And it would encourage a free market for phones.  Why aren't the regulators/attorneys/etc. stepping in where they should?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you buy the phone on a contract , you pay $ 80 a month .
If you buy the phone without a contract , you still pay $ 80 a month.Why are n't people questioning this practice ?
Carriers justify ETFs on the basis of having to subsidize handsets , but they turn around and charge the SAME amount to customers who are n't taking advantage of the subsidy .
Thus artificially suppressing the market for unlocked / open phones.The system in Japan makes more sense .
When you buy a phone , you choose to pay the full cost up front , or pay in 12 or 24 installments ( and of course if you want to cash out early , you have to pay the remainder of the balance , just like any installment plan ) .
The communication charges are SEPARATE from the phone charges .
So the end result is that the user who wants a " free phone " simply pays a bit more monthly than the user who paid for their phone up front.The money the carriers would save trying to explain , justify , and collect those arbitrary " early termination fees " probably justifies switching to this more sensible system .
And it would encourage a free market for phones .
Why are n't the regulators/attorneys/etc .
stepping in where they should ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you buy the phone on a contract, you pay $80 a month.
If you buy the phone without a contract, you still pay $80 a month.Why aren't people questioning this practice?
Carriers justify ETFs on the basis of having to subsidize handsets, but they turn around and charge the SAME amount to customers who aren't taking advantage of the subsidy.
Thus artificially suppressing the market for unlocked / open phones.The system in Japan makes more sense.
When you buy a phone, you choose to pay the full cost up front, or pay in 12 or 24 installments (and of course if you want to cash out early, you have to pay the remainder of the balance, just like any installment plan).
The communication charges are SEPARATE from the phone charges.
So the end result is that the user who wants a "free phone" simply pays a bit more monthly than the user who paid for their phone up front.The money the carriers would save trying to explain, justify, and collect those arbitrary "early termination fees" probably justifies switching to this more sensible system.
And it would encourage a free market for phones.
Why aren't the regulators/attorneys/etc.
stepping in where they should?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30747294</id>
	<title>Re:WOW, slashdot IS full of GOOG fanboys...</title>
	<author>symbolset</author>
	<datestamp>1263319560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Come on guys.</p></div><p>Actually I don't see anything devious, underhanded or untoward here.  Obviously Google has to put some unpleasantness in their phone deal - if they didn't, and sold the phones for ten dollars over cost, their phone partners would have a royal snit.  T-Mobile would not get their subsidized phone sales that they really need to lock in customers and probably would not want to play.  At least all the phones are unlocked and the option to avoid subsidized phones is there.  The mobile phone ecosystem is too sick to fix all at once.
</p><p>Let's not be demanding they organically deliver us an entire 4G LTE wireless network over whitespace with flawless coverage replete with free voip and data on a $100 phone.  Let's especially not demand that in addition to how much they've already freed up the phone experience on the first day.  That kind of thing takes some intermediate steps.  This is an intermediate step.  If you don't want to pay the early termination fee, buy your phone outright.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Come on guys.Actually I do n't see anything devious , underhanded or untoward here .
Obviously Google has to put some unpleasantness in their phone deal - if they did n't , and sold the phones for ten dollars over cost , their phone partners would have a royal snit .
T-Mobile would not get their subsidized phone sales that they really need to lock in customers and probably would not want to play .
At least all the phones are unlocked and the option to avoid subsidized phones is there .
The mobile phone ecosystem is too sick to fix all at once .
Let 's not be demanding they organically deliver us an entire 4G LTE wireless network over whitespace with flawless coverage replete with free voip and data on a $ 100 phone .
Let 's especially not demand that in addition to how much they 've already freed up the phone experience on the first day .
That kind of thing takes some intermediate steps .
This is an intermediate step .
If you do n't want to pay the early termination fee , buy your phone outright .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come on guys.Actually I don't see anything devious, underhanded or untoward here.
Obviously Google has to put some unpleasantness in their phone deal - if they didn't, and sold the phones for ten dollars over cost, their phone partners would have a royal snit.
T-Mobile would not get their subsidized phone sales that they really need to lock in customers and probably would not want to play.
At least all the phones are unlocked and the option to avoid subsidized phones is there.
The mobile phone ecosystem is too sick to fix all at once.
Let's not be demanding they organically deliver us an entire 4G LTE wireless network over whitespace with flawless coverage replete with free voip and data on a $100 phone.
Let's especially not demand that in addition to how much they've already freed up the phone experience on the first day.
That kind of thing takes some intermediate steps.
This is an intermediate step.
If you don't want to pay the early termination fee, buy your phone outright.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743332</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743838</id>
	<title>Re:I'll stick with my Rogers Wireless iPhone</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263296160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't forget the DETF (Data ETF) that Rogers also charges separately from the ETF...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget the DETF ( Data ETF ) that Rogers also charges separately from the ETF.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget the DETF (Data ETF) that Rogers also charges separately from the ETF...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742796</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30748060</id>
	<title>Re:WOW, slashdot IS full of APPL fanboys...</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1263373320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You misspelled APPL, so I fixed that for you.<blockquote><div><p>It seems google can do no wrong on slashdot.</p></div></blockquote><p>

Ahh, I see you're blind to the obvious google bashing that goes on here when ever Google does anything.<br> <br>

What is happening here is when a customer buys a <b>subsidised</b> phone from google with a plan, they have to pay a fee if they terminate the plan within 4 months <b>if</b> the customer does not return the subsidised handset. One can surmise from this information that perhaps Google or T-mobile requires you to pay for the hardware, in entirety if you chose to terminate the subsidising contract.<br> <br>

I mean that just reeks of pure evil. How dare they ask for the full price of purchased hardware to be paid.<br> <br>

Over here, a phone plan is considered a legally binding contract and you are required to pay it regardless, Australian ETF's can be the remainder of your contract if the Telco so chooses. Mobile service contracts need to be treated as financial contracts (because they are, just like a loan) and if you sign up for $50 a month for 24 months, you have to pay $50 a month for 24 months if you do not wish to do so then you must pay whatever penalty the service provider requires (this may include returning the hardware). On the flip side, if the provider breaches their side of the contract they are in no position to ask for anything when the TIO declares the telco in breach of the contract, which is not that hard to do, with our crazy consumer protection laws.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You misspelled APPL , so I fixed that for you.It seems google can do no wrong on slashdot .
Ahh , I see you 're blind to the obvious google bashing that goes on here when ever Google does anything .
What is happening here is when a customer buys a subsidised phone from google with a plan , they have to pay a fee if they terminate the plan within 4 months if the customer does not return the subsidised handset .
One can surmise from this information that perhaps Google or T-mobile requires you to pay for the hardware , in entirety if you chose to terminate the subsidising contract .
I mean that just reeks of pure evil .
How dare they ask for the full price of purchased hardware to be paid .
Over here , a phone plan is considered a legally binding contract and you are required to pay it regardless , Australian ETF 's can be the remainder of your contract if the Telco so chooses .
Mobile service contracts need to be treated as financial contracts ( because they are , just like a loan ) and if you sign up for $ 50 a month for 24 months , you have to pay $ 50 a month for 24 months if you do not wish to do so then you must pay whatever penalty the service provider requires ( this may include returning the hardware ) .
On the flip side , if the provider breaches their side of the contract they are in no position to ask for anything when the TIO declares the telco in breach of the contract , which is not that hard to do , with our crazy consumer protection laws .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You misspelled APPL, so I fixed that for you.It seems google can do no wrong on slashdot.
Ahh, I see you're blind to the obvious google bashing that goes on here when ever Google does anything.
What is happening here is when a customer buys a subsidised phone from google with a plan, they have to pay a fee if they terminate the plan within 4 months if the customer does not return the subsidised handset.
One can surmise from this information that perhaps Google or T-mobile requires you to pay for the hardware, in entirety if you chose to terminate the subsidising contract.
I mean that just reeks of pure evil.
How dare they ask for the full price of purchased hardware to be paid.
Over here, a phone plan is considered a legally binding contract and you are required to pay it regardless, Australian ETF's can be the remainder of your contract if the Telco so chooses.
Mobile service contracts need to be treated as financial contracts (because they are, just like a loan) and if you sign up for $50 a month for 24 months, you have to pay $50 a month for 24 months if you do not wish to do so then you must pay whatever penalty the service provider requires (this may include returning the hardware).
On the flip side, if the provider breaches their side of the contract they are in no position to ask for anything when the TIO declares the telco in breach of the contract, which is not that hard to do, with our crazy consumer protection laws.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743332</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743084</id>
	<title>It's the T-Mobile ETF that doesn't make sense...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263292680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not the Google ETF that's the problem, it's the T-Mobile one. You're buying the phone from Google, not T-Mobile. If you trigger Google's early termination fee, T-Mobile shouldn't be out of pocket at all, and shouldn't be charging you anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not the Google ETF that 's the problem , it 's the T-Mobile one .
You 're buying the phone from Google , not T-Mobile .
If you trigger Google 's early termination fee , T-Mobile should n't be out of pocket at all , and should n't be charging you anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not the Google ETF that's the problem, it's the T-Mobile one.
You're buying the phone from Google, not T-Mobile.
If you trigger Google's early termination fee, T-Mobile shouldn't be out of pocket at all, and shouldn't be charging you anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743332</id>
	<title>WOW, slashdot IS full of GOOG fanboys...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263293760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Come. The. Freak. On. !!</p><p>Why does google get to charge this?  They get the kickback FROM the carrier, so have the carrier do the ETF.</p><p>Why does the carrier AND google, get to charge fees? Not even the iPhone, a phone that carries a higher retail value without a plan, do such a high termination fee.</p><p>It seems google can do no wrong on slashdot. It can have the cake, the party, eat the cake, and snuff the party goers,  and all is well in slashdot-google-fanboy land.</p><p>Come on guys.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Come .
The. Freak .
On. !
! Why does google get to charge this ?
They get the kickback FROM the carrier , so have the carrier do the ETF.Why does the carrier AND google , get to charge fees ?
Not even the iPhone , a phone that carries a higher retail value without a plan , do such a high termination fee.It seems google can do no wrong on slashdot .
It can have the cake , the party , eat the cake , and snuff the party goers , and all is well in slashdot-google-fanboy land.Come on guys .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come.
The. Freak.
On. !
!Why does google get to charge this?
They get the kickback FROM the carrier, so have the carrier do the ETF.Why does the carrier AND google, get to charge fees?
Not even the iPhone, a phone that carries a higher retail value without a plan, do such a high termination fee.It seems google can do no wrong on slashdot.
It can have the cake, the party, eat the cake, and snuff the party goers,  and all is well in slashdot-google-fanboy land.Come on guys.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743660</id>
	<title>Re:Separate handset and communications charges</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263295260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because with T-Mobiles Even More Plus plan that isn't the case.  If you have a contract-free phone it is cheaper.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because with T-Mobiles Even More Plus plan that is n't the case .
If you have a contract-free phone it is cheaper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because with T-Mobiles Even More Plus plan that isn't the case.
If you have a contract-free phone it is cheaper.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742796</id>
	<title>I'll stick with my Rogers Wireless iPhone</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263291240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'll stick with my phone... $200 early termination fee..

That's $200 for the phone, $200 termination = $400, which is still cheaper then the retail $699.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll stick with my phone... $ 200 early termination fee. . That 's $ 200 for the phone , $ 200 termination = $ 400 , which is still cheaper then the retail $ 699 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll stick with my phone... $200 early termination fee..

That's $200 for the phone, $200 termination = $400, which is still cheaper then the retail $699.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30745248</id>
	<title>Re:Separate handset and communications charges</title>
	<author>Jesus\_666</author>
	<datestamp>1263303420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I prefer the German model: You buy your phone in an electronics store and the contract or prepaid SIM is bought separately, not caring about your phone at all. You can also get a contract that includes you getting a new phone each N months (usually 12), if you want, and for very expensive smartphones we have the American-style telco-sells-you-the-phone bullshit (introduces with the iPhone). But in most cases nobody forces you to buy your phone from a telco.<br>
<br>
Much better, especially when you only need your mobile for talking to people. A cheap Nokia costs twenty to thirty bucks and can stay with you for years. Add a cheap prepaid and you might spend less than Google's ETF between now and when they shut down the GSM network.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I prefer the German model : You buy your phone in an electronics store and the contract or prepaid SIM is bought separately , not caring about your phone at all .
You can also get a contract that includes you getting a new phone each N months ( usually 12 ) , if you want , and for very expensive smartphones we have the American-style telco-sells-you-the-phone bullshit ( introduces with the iPhone ) .
But in most cases nobody forces you to buy your phone from a telco .
Much better , especially when you only need your mobile for talking to people .
A cheap Nokia costs twenty to thirty bucks and can stay with you for years .
Add a cheap prepaid and you might spend less than Google 's ETF between now and when they shut down the GSM network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I prefer the German model: You buy your phone in an electronics store and the contract or prepaid SIM is bought separately, not caring about your phone at all.
You can also get a contract that includes you getting a new phone each N months (usually 12), if you want, and for very expensive smartphones we have the American-style telco-sells-you-the-phone bullshit (introduces with the iPhone).
But in most cases nobody forces you to buy your phone from a telco.
Much better, especially when you only need your mobile for talking to people.
A cheap Nokia costs twenty to thirty bucks and can stay with you for years.
Add a cheap prepaid and you might spend less than Google's ETF between now and when they shut down the GSM network.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30750426</id>
	<title>Re:Early termination fee (ETF)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263397800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you wernt already rated 5 I would mod you up again.  Slashdot is terrible with acronyms.</p><p>I mean from my understanding The Boy Scouts of America seem to be in a full fight against piracy who seems to be working with some unknown lady only referred by as Ms.</p><p>Then there was some debate about Troy Lee's Design and how someone they will mess up the internet if you can have your own.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you wernt already rated 5 I would mod you up again .
Slashdot is terrible with acronyms.I mean from my understanding The Boy Scouts of America seem to be in a full fight against piracy who seems to be working with some unknown lady only referred by as Ms.Then there was some debate about Troy Lee 's Design and how someone they will mess up the internet if you can have your own .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you wernt already rated 5 I would mod you up again.
Slashdot is terrible with acronyms.I mean from my understanding The Boy Scouts of America seem to be in a full fight against piracy who seems to be working with some unknown lady only referred by as Ms.Then there was some debate about Troy Lee's Design and how someone they will mess up the internet if you can have your own.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742904</id>
	<title>Early termination fee (ETF)</title>
	<author>Chris Pimlott</author>
	<datestamp>1263291780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's customary to explicitly define the acronym before its first use in the main body.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's customary to explicitly define the acronym before its first use in the main body .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's customary to explicitly define the acronym before its first use in the main body.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743452</id>
	<title>This shouldn't be a suprise</title>
	<author>AndrewNeo</author>
	<datestamp>1263294240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I bought my HTC Fuze for AT&amp;T off Amazon, it only cost $100, but there was a $250 charge from Amazon if I canceled the contract within 6 months (not actually the ETF), and a $275 or whatever charge from AT&amp;T if I canceled the contract within 2 years (the ETF). Google is giving you a bigger discount on the phone, otherwise it'd cost $350 more by default. So what? This isn't anything new, non-carrier resellers have been doing this for a long time, everyone is just complaining because it's Google doing the 'reselling'. (And they are, since it's HTC's hardware)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I bought my HTC Fuze for AT&amp;T off Amazon , it only cost $ 100 , but there was a $ 250 charge from Amazon if I canceled the contract within 6 months ( not actually the ETF ) , and a $ 275 or whatever charge from AT&amp;T if I canceled the contract within 2 years ( the ETF ) .
Google is giving you a bigger discount on the phone , otherwise it 'd cost $ 350 more by default .
So what ?
This is n't anything new , non-carrier resellers have been doing this for a long time , everyone is just complaining because it 's Google doing the 'reselling' .
( And they are , since it 's HTC 's hardware )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I bought my HTC Fuze for AT&amp;T off Amazon, it only cost $100, but there was a $250 charge from Amazon if I canceled the contract within 6 months (not actually the ETF), and a $275 or whatever charge from AT&amp;T if I canceled the contract within 2 years (the ETF).
Google is giving you a bigger discount on the phone, otherwise it'd cost $350 more by default.
So what?
This isn't anything new, non-carrier resellers have been doing this for a long time, everyone is just complaining because it's Google doing the 'reselling'.
(And they are, since it's HTC's hardware)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30745038</id>
	<title>What a crock.</title>
	<author>uvajed\_ekil</author>
	<datestamp>1263302460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>All that hype, and a nice but not ground-breaking phone that is being sold with even worse terms than are the norm. I thought it was going to blow away all other phones, including the Droid and IPhone? Marginally better, perhaps. Wasn't it supposed to be "Google branded" and unlocked, so you could do as you please with it? Sounds pretty tightly tied to Mobile, and operates more or less like all the other HTC Android phones. It isn't even especially attractive. I've been a pretty big fan of some of the things Google has done, but lately now it seems as if they are behaving just like every other company: screwing customers whenever a profit can be made, making empty promises, doing as much as possible to put competitors out of business, and just generally sucking. I still like my G1 and depend on Gmail, but Google is beginning to annoy me.</htmltext>
<tokenext>All that hype , and a nice but not ground-breaking phone that is being sold with even worse terms than are the norm .
I thought it was going to blow away all other phones , including the Droid and IPhone ?
Marginally better , perhaps .
Was n't it supposed to be " Google branded " and unlocked , so you could do as you please with it ?
Sounds pretty tightly tied to Mobile , and operates more or less like all the other HTC Android phones .
It is n't even especially attractive .
I 've been a pretty big fan of some of the things Google has done , but lately now it seems as if they are behaving just like every other company : screwing customers whenever a profit can be made , making empty promises , doing as much as possible to put competitors out of business , and just generally sucking .
I still like my G1 and depend on Gmail , but Google is beginning to annoy me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All that hype, and a nice but not ground-breaking phone that is being sold with even worse terms than are the norm.
I thought it was going to blow away all other phones, including the Droid and IPhone?
Marginally better, perhaps.
Wasn't it supposed to be "Google branded" and unlocked, so you could do as you please with it?
Sounds pretty tightly tied to Mobile, and operates more or less like all the other HTC Android phones.
It isn't even especially attractive.
I've been a pretty big fan of some of the things Google has done, but lately now it seems as if they are behaving just like every other company: screwing customers whenever a profit can be made, making empty promises, doing as much as possible to put competitors out of business, and just generally sucking.
I still like my G1 and depend on Gmail, but Google is beginning to annoy me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30742786</id>
	<title>that sort of makes sense</title>
	<author>Trepidity</author>
	<datestamp>1263291180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The discount for buying it with a 2-year plan is $350, so clearly the termination fee has to be more than T-mobile's $200 to deter people from buying with the plan and then cancelling as a way of getting the bare phone at a discount. Now, $550 is a bit absurd, because it's higher than the cost of the bare phone, but these sorts of fees are often higher than would make sense.</p><p>I guess having the fee charged in two separate instances, instead of T-mobile charging one larger fee and then reimbursing Google with part of the money, is a somewhat unusual structuring. But I'm not sure it fundamentally matters?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The discount for buying it with a 2-year plan is $ 350 , so clearly the termination fee has to be more than T-mobile 's $ 200 to deter people from buying with the plan and then cancelling as a way of getting the bare phone at a discount .
Now , $ 550 is a bit absurd , because it 's higher than the cost of the bare phone , but these sorts of fees are often higher than would make sense.I guess having the fee charged in two separate instances , instead of T-mobile charging one larger fee and then reimbursing Google with part of the money , is a somewhat unusual structuring .
But I 'm not sure it fundamentally matters ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The discount for buying it with a 2-year plan is $350, so clearly the termination fee has to be more than T-mobile's $200 to deter people from buying with the plan and then cancelling as a way of getting the bare phone at a discount.
Now, $550 is a bit absurd, because it's higher than the cost of the bare phone, but these sorts of fees are often higher than would make sense.I guess having the fee charged in two separate instances, instead of T-mobile charging one larger fee and then reimbursing Google with part of the money, is a somewhat unusual structuring.
But I'm not sure it fundamentally matters?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743662</id>
	<title>Re:It's the T-Mobile ETF that doesn't make sense..</title>
	<author>Algan</author>
	<datestamp>1263295320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No it's actually Google's ETF that does not make sense. TMobile stands to gain if you stay with them for the duration of the contract, which is why they are subsidizing the handset and are entitled to levy an ETF if you break out earlier. Google's role ends the moment you purchase the product (except for warranty and support issues, which apparently they are keen to pass along to HTC). I don't see how they are entitled to another ETF.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No it 's actually Google 's ETF that does not make sense .
TMobile stands to gain if you stay with them for the duration of the contract , which is why they are subsidizing the handset and are entitled to levy an ETF if you break out earlier .
Google 's role ends the moment you purchase the product ( except for warranty and support issues , which apparently they are keen to pass along to HTC ) .
I do n't see how they are entitled to another ETF .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No it's actually Google's ETF that does not make sense.
TMobile stands to gain if you stay with them for the duration of the contract, which is why they are subsidizing the handset and are entitled to levy an ETF if you break out earlier.
Google's role ends the moment you purchase the product (except for warranty and support issues, which apparently they are keen to pass along to HTC).
I don't see how they are entitled to another ETF.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_1819214.30743084</parent>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_12_1819214_30</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_12_1819214_44</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_12_1819214_18</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_12_1819214_20</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_12_1819214_7</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_12_1819214_17</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_10_01_12_1819214_11</id>
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