<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_12_071215</id>
	<title>Average Budget For Major, Multi-Platform Games Is $18-28 Million</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1263295560000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader passes along this excerpt from Develop:
<i>"The average <a href="http://www.develop-online.net/news/33625/Study-Average-dev-cost-as-high-as-28m">development budget for a multiplatform next-gen game is $18-$28 million</a>, according to new data. A study by entertainment analyst group M2 Research also puts development costs for single-platform projects at an average of $10 million. The figures themselves may not be too surprising, with high-profile games often breaking the $40 million barrier. Polyphony's <em>Gran Turismo 5</em> budget is said to be hovering around the $60 million mark, while <em>Modern Warfare 2</em>'s budget was said to be as high as $50 million."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader passes along this excerpt from Develop : " The average development budget for a multiplatform next-gen game is $ 18- $ 28 million , according to new data .
A study by entertainment analyst group M2 Research also puts development costs for single-platform projects at an average of $ 10 million .
The figures themselves may not be too surprising , with high-profile games often breaking the $ 40 million barrier .
Polyphony 's Gran Turismo 5 budget is said to be hovering around the $ 60 million mark , while Modern Warfare 2 's budget was said to be as high as $ 50 million .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader passes along this excerpt from Develop:
"The average development budget for a multiplatform next-gen game is $18-$28 million, according to new data.
A study by entertainment analyst group M2 Research also puts development costs for single-platform projects at an average of $10 million.
The figures themselves may not be too surprising, with high-profile games often breaking the $40 million barrier.
Polyphony's Gran Turismo 5 budget is said to be hovering around the $60 million mark, while Modern Warfare 2's budget was said to be as high as $50 million.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735574</id>
	<title>Re:Half the cost for another platform?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263302220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Next Gen consoles have significant differences in programming models.  Its possible to write pretty standard c++ code that will run relatively well on the 360. The ps3 on the other hand requires you to code everything by hand to handle the multi threaded cell processor.  This includes things like communication between the PPU and SPUs on the cell processor and a complete software memory cache(if thats how you decide to go about it).</p><p>Thats not to say that their wouldnt be a large amount of shared code, but for efficient use of the platform large chunks(even standard stuff like AI) may need to be rewritten.</p><p>On top of that both microsoft and sony have a very strict validation process.  Fail that and its back to more testing and another whole bunch of cash to get it ready for another try.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Next Gen consoles have significant differences in programming models .
Its possible to write pretty standard c + + code that will run relatively well on the 360 .
The ps3 on the other hand requires you to code everything by hand to handle the multi threaded cell processor .
This includes things like communication between the PPU and SPUs on the cell processor and a complete software memory cache ( if thats how you decide to go about it ) .Thats not to say that their wouldnt be a large amount of shared code , but for efficient use of the platform large chunks ( even standard stuff like AI ) may need to be rewritten.On top of that both microsoft and sony have a very strict validation process .
Fail that and its back to more testing and another whole bunch of cash to get it ready for another try .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Next Gen consoles have significant differences in programming models.
Its possible to write pretty standard c++ code that will run relatively well on the 360.
The ps3 on the other hand requires you to code everything by hand to handle the multi threaded cell processor.
This includes things like communication between the PPU and SPUs on the cell processor and a complete software memory cache(if thats how you decide to go about it).Thats not to say that their wouldnt be a large amount of shared code, but for efficient use of the platform large chunks(even standard stuff like AI) may need to be rewritten.On top of that both microsoft and sony have a very strict validation process.
Fail that and its back to more testing and another whole bunch of cash to get it ready for another try.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30745994</id>
	<title>Re:Half the cost for another platform?</title>
	<author>mjwx</author>
	<datestamp>1263307980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I didn't read the article, but, how can making a game multiplatform almost double the cost?</p></div></blockquote><p>

License fees.<br> <br>

You will have to change your engine but even going from PC to XBox you'll be hit with a massive license fee per unit. Even with the similarities between the two platforms you'll have to redesign your control scheme, parts of your engine and a million other things that are inconstant between the two platforms.<br> <br>

License fees are a big one, they add A$20 to the already overpriced cost of video games.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I did n't read the article , but , how can making a game multiplatform almost double the cost ?
License fees .
You will have to change your engine but even going from PC to XBox you 'll be hit with a massive license fee per unit .
Even with the similarities between the two platforms you 'll have to redesign your control scheme , parts of your engine and a million other things that are inconstant between the two platforms .
License fees are a big one , they add A $ 20 to the already overpriced cost of video games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I didn't read the article, but, how can making a game multiplatform almost double the cost?
License fees.
You will have to change your engine but even going from PC to XBox you'll be hit with a massive license fee per unit.
Even with the similarities between the two platforms you'll have to redesign your control scheme, parts of your engine and a million other things that are inconstant between the two platforms.
License fees are a big one, they add A$20 to the already overpriced cost of video games.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30737176</id>
	<title>Licensing Fees?</title>
	<author>Comboman</author>
	<datestamp>1263312000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've often wondered how large the licensing fees are.  Every big-budget movie needs a big-budget game with a synchronized release date.  But the game developer is taking a big risk that the movie doesn't bomb and no one will buy the game (no matter how good it is).  Even if the movie is a success, the game is really part of the movie's marketing, so maybe the movie studio's licensing fees are fairly small to encourage game developers to take the risk of creating the game?  Even things like automobiles in racing games involve licenses, but again the car company benefits by having it's product promoted to a generation of future drivers, so maybe the licensing fees are relatively small?  Does anyone know?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've often wondered how large the licensing fees are .
Every big-budget movie needs a big-budget game with a synchronized release date .
But the game developer is taking a big risk that the movie does n't bomb and no one will buy the game ( no matter how good it is ) .
Even if the movie is a success , the game is really part of the movie 's marketing , so maybe the movie studio 's licensing fees are fairly small to encourage game developers to take the risk of creating the game ?
Even things like automobiles in racing games involve licenses , but again the car company benefits by having it 's product promoted to a generation of future drivers , so maybe the licensing fees are relatively small ?
Does anyone know ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've often wondered how large the licensing fees are.
Every big-budget movie needs a big-budget game with a synchronized release date.
But the game developer is taking a big risk that the movie doesn't bomb and no one will buy the game (no matter how good it is).
Even if the movie is a success, the game is really part of the movie's marketing, so maybe the movie studio's licensing fees are fairly small to encourage game developers to take the risk of creating the game?
Even things like automobiles in racing games involve licenses, but again the car company benefits by having it's product promoted to a generation of future drivers, so maybe the licensing fees are relatively small?
Does anyone know?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30742736</id>
	<title>Re:More complicated and less fun</title>
	<author>0ld\_d0g</author>
	<datestamp>1263290940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think games have been moving towards pure the sit-back-and-enjoy entertainment genre of movies. Very few games are *really* challenging or make you think (except ofcource the puzzle types). With all these big budget titles you can mostly just run through the game in your first sitting. Still, the multiplayer aspect tends to correct that balance of difficulty vs. pure entertainment/visuals</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think games have been moving towards pure the sit-back-and-enjoy entertainment genre of movies .
Very few games are * really * challenging or make you think ( except ofcource the puzzle types ) .
With all these big budget titles you can mostly just run through the game in your first sitting .
Still , the multiplayer aspect tends to correct that balance of difficulty vs. pure entertainment/visuals</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think games have been moving towards pure the sit-back-and-enjoy entertainment genre of movies.
Very few games are *really* challenging or make you think (except ofcource the puzzle types).
With all these big budget titles you can mostly just run through the game in your first sitting.
Still, the multiplayer aspect tends to correct that balance of difficulty vs. pure entertainment/visuals</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735338</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736804</id>
	<title>Re:Do large budgets lead to boring games?</title>
	<author>TheVelvetFlamebait</author>
	<datestamp>1263310620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>World of Goo wasn't that good. Sure I enjoyed it, a lot, but I enjoy many games as well.</p><p>For example, I just finished New Super Mario Bros Wii the other day, and I had a blast pretty much all the way through, especially during the multiplayer.</p><p>I also enjoyed GTA Vice City (I haven't tried 4 yet). A lot. That was pretty fun.</p><p>Let's see... Hm... There was EA's Boom Blox for Wii. I really enjoyed that, and the gameplay felt pretty fresh, as much so as world of goo.</p><p>Also for Wii, I'm currently enjoying Konami's Pro Evolution Soccer. The tactical point-and-click gameplay feels really good, and makes the actual fun part of virtual soccer, the movement puzzle, as accessible and natural as possible.</p><p>So yeah, I think big budgets don't exclude fun. The worst they can do is extend the possibilities (even though they often don't from a gameplay perspective).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>World of Goo was n't that good .
Sure I enjoyed it , a lot , but I enjoy many games as well.For example , I just finished New Super Mario Bros Wii the other day , and I had a blast pretty much all the way through , especially during the multiplayer.I also enjoyed GTA Vice City ( I have n't tried 4 yet ) .
A lot .
That was pretty fun.Let 's see... Hm... There was EA 's Boom Blox for Wii .
I really enjoyed that , and the gameplay felt pretty fresh , as much so as world of goo.Also for Wii , I 'm currently enjoying Konami 's Pro Evolution Soccer .
The tactical point-and-click gameplay feels really good , and makes the actual fun part of virtual soccer , the movement puzzle , as accessible and natural as possible.So yeah , I think big budgets do n't exclude fun .
The worst they can do is extend the possibilities ( even though they often do n't from a gameplay perspective ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>World of Goo wasn't that good.
Sure I enjoyed it, a lot, but I enjoy many games as well.For example, I just finished New Super Mario Bros Wii the other day, and I had a blast pretty much all the way through, especially during the multiplayer.I also enjoyed GTA Vice City (I haven't tried 4 yet).
A lot.
That was pretty fun.Let's see... Hm... There was EA's Boom Blox for Wii.
I really enjoyed that, and the gameplay felt pretty fresh, as much so as world of goo.Also for Wii, I'm currently enjoying Konami's Pro Evolution Soccer.
The tactical point-and-click gameplay feels really good, and makes the actual fun part of virtual soccer, the movement puzzle, as accessible and natural as possible.So yeah, I think big budgets don't exclude fun.
The worst they can do is extend the possibilities (even though they often don't from a gameplay perspective).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736150</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing Budgets can dwarf Dev Costs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263306900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"GTAIV would of had similar if not more, being a multi platform title."</p><p>God dammit! It's "would HAVE had"!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" GTAIV would of had similar if not more , being a multi platform title .
" God dammit !
It 's " would HAVE had " !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"GTAIV would of had similar if not more, being a multi platform title.
"God dammit!
It's "would HAVE had"!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735542</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735354</id>
	<title>Re:Shouldn't be surprising</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263300000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wouldn't be surprised if half the budget on MW2 was marketing, if not more.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't be surprised if half the budget on MW2 was marketing , if not more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't be surprised if half the budget on MW2 was marketing, if not more.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30737666</id>
	<title>Re:Shouldn't be surprising</title>
	<author>Icarium</author>
	<datestamp>1263314040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's surprising that games are cheaper to make than movies.</p></div><p>Not really. You don't have actors demanding to be kept in 5 star opulence for the duration of the shoot. You don't need to move film crews and casts from location to location. You don't actually go around blowing up tanks, or crashing $100k sportscars. Granted, I see no same reason why you would want to do any of those if you could get the same result by using CGI (which to be bluntly honest isn't always up to the task - especially when it comes to explosions) but until all CGI is photorealistic there will always be a case for the more expensive option.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's surprising that games are cheaper to make than movies.Not really .
You do n't have actors demanding to be kept in 5 star opulence for the duration of the shoot .
You do n't need to move film crews and casts from location to location .
You do n't actually go around blowing up tanks , or crashing $ 100k sportscars .
Granted , I see no same reason why you would want to do any of those if you could get the same result by using CGI ( which to be bluntly honest is n't always up to the task - especially when it comes to explosions ) but until all CGI is photorealistic there will always be a case for the more expensive option .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's surprising that games are cheaper to make than movies.Not really.
You don't have actors demanding to be kept in 5 star opulence for the duration of the shoot.
You don't need to move film crews and casts from location to location.
You don't actually go around blowing up tanks, or crashing $100k sportscars.
Granted, I see no same reason why you would want to do any of those if you could get the same result by using CGI (which to be bluntly honest isn't always up to the task - especially when it comes to explosions) but until all CGI is photorealistic there will always be a case for the more expensive option.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736340</id>
	<title>Re:Multiplatform. Really.</title>
	<author>Aranykai</author>
	<datestamp>1263308100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know your being sarcastic but the only reason I ever purchased a ps2 or ps3 was for the GT series. They will never bring that game to any other console.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know your being sarcastic but the only reason I ever purchased a ps2 or ps3 was for the GT series .
They will never bring that game to any other console .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know your being sarcastic but the only reason I ever purchased a ps2 or ps3 was for the GT series.
They will never bring that game to any other console.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736088</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30740134</id>
	<title>Re:Half the cost for another platform?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263322680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection\_bias" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow"> Selection bias  </a> [wikipedia.org].  It tends to be that the games which are already high budget will always be ported to more platforms.  The reason for this is that the cost of porting is negligible compared to the cost of developing the game in the first place.</p><p>For instance, if you are a company who just spend 30 million developing a game, wouldn't it make sense to spend another few million to port to another platform?  Whereas, if your title was only 3 million to develop, then the relative cost of porting would be about 10 times as much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Selection bias [ wikipedia.org ] .
It tends to be that the games which are already high budget will always be ported to more platforms .
The reason for this is that the cost of porting is negligible compared to the cost of developing the game in the first place.For instance , if you are a company who just spend 30 million developing a game , would n't it make sense to spend another few million to port to another platform ?
Whereas , if your title was only 3 million to develop , then the relative cost of porting would be about 10 times as much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Selection bias   [wikipedia.org].
It tends to be that the games which are already high budget will always be ported to more platforms.
The reason for this is that the cost of porting is negligible compared to the cost of developing the game in the first place.For instance, if you are a company who just spend 30 million developing a game, wouldn't it make sense to spend another few million to port to another platform?
Whereas, if your title was only 3 million to develop, then the relative cost of porting would be about 10 times as much.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736088</id>
	<title>Multiplatform.  Really.</title>
	<author>BForrester</author>
	<datestamp>1263306540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did I miss the 360/Wii/PC/Linux release of Gran Turismo 5?  Now that I know that it's a major multiplatform release, I'll be on the lookout for a copy to play on one of my non-PS3 systems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did I miss the 360/Wii/PC/Linux release of Gran Turismo 5 ?
Now that I know that it 's a major multiplatform release , I 'll be on the lookout for a copy to play on one of my non-PS3 systems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did I miss the 360/Wii/PC/Linux release of Gran Turismo 5?
Now that I know that it's a major multiplatform release, I'll be on the lookout for a copy to play on one of my non-PS3 systems.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735894</id>
	<title>Re:Shouldn't be surprising</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263305220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Half of why movies are so expensive is actors and scriptwriters unions and the hollywood monopoly,
so far games have much more indepence. But i am suprised at the the cost of these Major
games, i'm old enough to rembember when one teenager could write a game on his home
computer with a budget of zero. But yes a modern computer game needs a room full
of visual design artists and a enough room full of programmers, and lets not forget game play
design and testing.
<p>
---
</p><p>
<a href="http://www.feeddistiller.com/blogs/3D\%20Shooter/feed.html" title="feeddistiller.com">3D Shooter Games</a> [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ <a href="http://www.feeddistiller.com/" title="feeddistiller.com">Feed Distiller</a> [feeddistiller.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Half of why movies are so expensive is actors and scriptwriters unions and the hollywood monopoly , so far games have much more indepence .
But i am suprised at the the cost of these Major games , i 'm old enough to rembember when one teenager could write a game on his home computer with a budget of zero .
But yes a modern computer game needs a room full of visual design artists and a enough room full of programmers , and lets not forget game play design and testing .
--- 3D Shooter Games [ feeddistiller.com ] Feed @ Feed Distiller [ feeddistiller.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Half of why movies are so expensive is actors and scriptwriters unions and the hollywood monopoly,
so far games have much more indepence.
But i am suprised at the the cost of these Major
games, i'm old enough to rembember when one teenager could write a game on his home
computer with a budget of zero.
But yes a modern computer game needs a room full
of visual design artists and a enough room full of programmers, and lets not forget game play
design and testing.
---

3D Shooter Games [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ Feed Distiller [feeddistiller.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735456</id>
	<title>Must suck...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263300900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That I usually just download the game, testplay it and dump it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That I usually just download the game , testplay it and dump it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That I usually just download the game, testplay it and dump it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735870</id>
	<title>Re:Shouldn't be surprising</title>
	<author>Turzyx</author>
	<datestamp>1263305040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Three figure quantities of staff on average salary takes up a large percentage of that. Then you have equipment, motion capture, voice capture, software licenses, general overheads. It makes me wonder how any new companys get into the business... well... I guess they don't really unless they are holding hands with a large publisher.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Three figure quantities of staff on average salary takes up a large percentage of that .
Then you have equipment , motion capture , voice capture , software licenses , general overheads .
It makes me wonder how any new companys get into the business... well... I guess they do n't really unless they are holding hands with a large publisher .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Three figure quantities of staff on average salary takes up a large percentage of that.
Then you have equipment, motion capture, voice capture, software licenses, general overheads.
It makes me wonder how any new companys get into the business... well... I guess they don't really unless they are holding hands with a large publisher.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735728</id>
	<title>Concerning Modern Warfare 2</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263303900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> while Modern Warfare 2's budget was said to be as high as $50 million</p></div><p>I'm sure that there are a lot of cost-saving measures out there, such as simply porting a console version to the PC and leaving out dedicated servers.</p><p>Oh wait...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>while Modern Warfare 2 's budget was said to be as high as $ 50 millionI 'm sure that there are a lot of cost-saving measures out there , such as simply porting a console version to the PC and leaving out dedicated servers.Oh wait.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> while Modern Warfare 2's budget was said to be as high as $50 millionI'm sure that there are a lot of cost-saving measures out there, such as simply porting a console version to the PC and leaving out dedicated servers.Oh wait...
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30748330</id>
	<title>Re:Shouldn't be surprising</title>
	<author>drkim</author>
	<datestamp>1263377460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"...It's surprising that games are cheaper to make than movies...."
<br> <br>
Not really - one of the huge costs of film-making is star salaries, which (with some exceptions) doesn't occur in game production.
<br> <br>
Most large film production is with a union cast/crew, which adds to the cost.
<br> <br>
The playtime of the game vs. the runtime of the film isn't really as important as the conglomerate number of set's/levels/locations.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...It 's surprising that games are cheaper to make than movies.... " Not really - one of the huge costs of film-making is star salaries , which ( with some exceptions ) does n't occur in game production .
Most large film production is with a union cast/crew , which adds to the cost .
The playtime of the game vs. the runtime of the film is n't really as important as the conglomerate number of set 's/levels/locations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...It's surprising that games are cheaper to make than movies...."
 
Not really - one of the huge costs of film-making is star salaries, which (with some exceptions) doesn't occur in game production.
Most large film production is with a union cast/crew, which adds to the cost.
The playtime of the game vs. the runtime of the film isn't really as important as the conglomerate number of set's/levels/locations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736222</id>
	<title>no.. 200 million for marketing mw2.</title>
	<author>leuk\_he</author>
	<datestamp>1263307260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.develop-online.net/news/33312/Modern-Warfare-2-dev-costs-put-at-40-50m" title="develop-online.net" rel="nofollow">The LA Times report also claims that the marketing costs of Modern Warfare 2 hit close to $200 million - a staggering figure for a video game marketing campaign.</a> [develop-online.net]</p><p>Now choose your professions. Marketing of coding.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The LA Times report also claims that the marketing costs of Modern Warfare 2 hit close to $ 200 million - a staggering figure for a video game marketing campaign .
[ develop-online.net ] Now choose your professions .
Marketing of coding .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The LA Times report also claims that the marketing costs of Modern Warfare 2 hit close to $200 million - a staggering figure for a video game marketing campaign.
[develop-online.net]Now choose your professions.
Marketing of coding.
;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735586</id>
	<title>Re:More complicated and less fun</title>
	<author>Xest</author>
	<datestamp>1263302340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's because AC was an awfully dull game even though it looked stunning and the fighting was impressive.</p><p>Try Assassins Creed 2, far, far better and puts even classics like Thief to shame.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's because AC was an awfully dull game even though it looked stunning and the fighting was impressive.Try Assassins Creed 2 , far , far better and puts even classics like Thief to shame .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's because AC was an awfully dull game even though it looked stunning and the fighting was impressive.Try Assassins Creed 2, far, far better and puts even classics like Thief to shame.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735338</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30738550</id>
	<title>Re:Half the cost for another platform?</title>
	<author>jparker</author>
	<datestamp>1263317220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cause and effect are getting confused here. It's not that going from single-platform to multi-platform takes your budget from 10M to 20M, it's that having a 20M budget means you have to be multi-platform, while a smaller, 10M game can make its money back on a single platform.</p><p>Multiplatform dev does increase cost by a bit, but not a staggering amount. The main costs are usually in engineering (and QA, but the cost of QA guys is miniscule next to the cost of programmers). Several people have pointed out that higher-level content like models, levels, and audio is usually portable, but when the different platforms want differing model descriptions, data layouts, and audio formats, it's a lot of programming work to make that happen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cause and effect are getting confused here .
It 's not that going from single-platform to multi-platform takes your budget from 10M to 20M , it 's that having a 20M budget means you have to be multi-platform , while a smaller , 10M game can make its money back on a single platform.Multiplatform dev does increase cost by a bit , but not a staggering amount .
The main costs are usually in engineering ( and QA , but the cost of QA guys is miniscule next to the cost of programmers ) .
Several people have pointed out that higher-level content like models , levels , and audio is usually portable , but when the different platforms want differing model descriptions , data layouts , and audio formats , it 's a lot of programming work to make that happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cause and effect are getting confused here.
It's not that going from single-platform to multi-platform takes your budget from 10M to 20M, it's that having a 20M budget means you have to be multi-platform, while a smaller, 10M game can make its money back on a single platform.Multiplatform dev does increase cost by a bit, but not a staggering amount.
The main costs are usually in engineering (and QA, but the cost of QA guys is miniscule next to the cost of programmers).
Several people have pointed out that higher-level content like models, levels, and audio is usually portable, but when the different platforms want differing model descriptions, data layouts, and audio formats, it's a lot of programming work to make that happen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30737590</id>
	<title>Re:Half the cost for another platform?</title>
	<author>alteveer</author>
	<datestamp>1263313680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are different certification processes, but if you use crappy middleware like Unreal Tech, you can put pretty much the same game out on PS3 and 360 with minor additional effort. A lot of major studios are eschewing PC titles and focusing only on console, as well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are different certification processes , but if you use crappy middleware like Unreal Tech , you can put pretty much the same game out on PS3 and 360 with minor additional effort .
A lot of major studios are eschewing PC titles and focusing only on console , as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are different certification processes, but if you use crappy middleware like Unreal Tech, you can put pretty much the same game out on PS3 and 360 with minor additional effort.
A lot of major studios are eschewing PC titles and focusing only on console, as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735306</id>
	<title>Half the cost for another platform?</title>
	<author>Lord Lode</author>
	<datestamp>1263299640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I didn't read the article, but, how can making a game multiplatform almost double the cost? I thought the art, levels, motion capturing, all the data, etc... was the most expensive. Writing the code probably also is expensive, but if you develop for multiplatform a lot of code (AI etc...) can be shared and only things like renderer and input need multiple implementations, which can't be THAT much more work??</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I did n't read the article , but , how can making a game multiplatform almost double the cost ?
I thought the art , levels , motion capturing , all the data , etc... was the most expensive .
Writing the code probably also is expensive , but if you develop for multiplatform a lot of code ( AI etc... ) can be shared and only things like renderer and input need multiple implementations , which ca n't be THAT much more work ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I didn't read the article, but, how can making a game multiplatform almost double the cost?
I thought the art, levels, motion capturing, all the data, etc... was the most expensive.
Writing the code probably also is expensive, but if you develop for multiplatform a lot of code (AI etc...) can be shared and only things like renderer and input need multiple implementations, which can't be THAT much more work?
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735464</id>
	<title>Re:More complicated and less fun</title>
	<author>mcvos</author>
	<datestamp>1263300960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Modern game development focuses more on expensive, movie-like graphics than on clever, original, innovative gameplay. In fact, with budgets like this, innovation is dangerous. Better stick to what's been proven to sell. Just like in Hollywood. Innovation usually starts small, and the bigger the business becomes, the smaller innovation has to start.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Modern game development focuses more on expensive , movie-like graphics than on clever , original , innovative gameplay .
In fact , with budgets like this , innovation is dangerous .
Better stick to what 's been proven to sell .
Just like in Hollywood .
Innovation usually starts small , and the bigger the business becomes , the smaller innovation has to start .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Modern game development focuses more on expensive, movie-like graphics than on clever, original, innovative gameplay.
In fact, with budgets like this, innovation is dangerous.
Better stick to what's been proven to sell.
Just like in Hollywood.
Innovation usually starts small, and the bigger the business becomes, the smaller innovation has to start.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735338</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736030</id>
	<title>Excuses</title>
	<author>lyinhart</author>
	<datestamp>1263306240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sounds like more fodder for game developers and publishers to whine about lost revenues due to used game sales and piracy, as well as justifying their pricing models and DLC systems. Kind of pointless having a huge game development budget when it's the same, uninnovative, linear experience time and time again. Thankfully, the increasing success of so-called "indie" games may have them rethink their huge dev costs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like more fodder for game developers and publishers to whine about lost revenues due to used game sales and piracy , as well as justifying their pricing models and DLC systems .
Kind of pointless having a huge game development budget when it 's the same , uninnovative , linear experience time and time again .
Thankfully , the increasing success of so-called " indie " games may have them rethink their huge dev costs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like more fodder for game developers and publishers to whine about lost revenues due to used game sales and piracy, as well as justifying their pricing models and DLC systems.
Kind of pointless having a huge game development budget when it's the same, uninnovative, linear experience time and time again.
Thankfully, the increasing success of so-called "indie" games may have them rethink their huge dev costs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735402</id>
	<title>Re:Half the cost for another platform?</title>
	<author>rJah</author>
	<datestamp>1263300420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I read somewhere (maybe slashdot story or an ars technica article, can't remember) that multi platform games are dificult to develop because of the underlying hardware differences, specifically the CPU(s) and they have to take the number and types of CPUs installed in the system into account. For example, the PS3 has 1 GP core an several vector cores while PCs have 1, 2 or 4 GP cores, and the threading systems have to be completely different. And XBox has a different CPU as well (3 PPC cores, but I may have made it up). The PS3 also has far less RAM than an average PC, and this also has to be taken into account while deevloping games.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I read somewhere ( maybe slashdot story or an ars technica article , ca n't remember ) that multi platform games are dificult to develop because of the underlying hardware differences , specifically the CPU ( s ) and they have to take the number and types of CPUs installed in the system into account .
For example , the PS3 has 1 GP core an several vector cores while PCs have 1 , 2 or 4 GP cores , and the threading systems have to be completely different .
And XBox has a different CPU as well ( 3 PPC cores , but I may have made it up ) .
The PS3 also has far less RAM than an average PC , and this also has to be taken into account while deevloping games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read somewhere (maybe slashdot story or an ars technica article, can't remember) that multi platform games are dificult to develop because of the underlying hardware differences, specifically the CPU(s) and they have to take the number and types of CPUs installed in the system into account.
For example, the PS3 has 1 GP core an several vector cores while PCs have 1, 2 or 4 GP cores, and the threading systems have to be completely different.
And XBox has a different CPU as well (3 PPC cores, but I may have made it up).
The PS3 also has far less RAM than an average PC, and this also has to be taken into account while deevloping games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736380</id>
	<title>Re:More complicated and less fun</title>
	<author>Kjella</author>
	<datestamp>1263308400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Welcome to getting older. I can't believe how easy I was to entertain when I was a teen, plus then I didn't really know the meaning of "work". It was all either fun or learning, even the grinding was just a little interlude. And every generation talks about something, like how say vinyl had more soul than CDs, or the people in costumes had more soul than CGI, and how real world makebelieve had more soul than virtual makebelieve and so on.</p><p>Each one of these megagames probably used far more skill and time on a professional writer than the computer geek who part-time doubled as gfx artist, sfx artist, composer and sometimes writer on your garage setup obscure game. I can at least say that with most old games I can have kind memories but if I start playing then many of them I get fed up because it's so simple and boring to a mind that's had another ten years of experience at figuring stuff out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Welcome to getting older .
I ca n't believe how easy I was to entertain when I was a teen , plus then I did n't really know the meaning of " work " .
It was all either fun or learning , even the grinding was just a little interlude .
And every generation talks about something , like how say vinyl had more soul than CDs , or the people in costumes had more soul than CGI , and how real world makebelieve had more soul than virtual makebelieve and so on.Each one of these megagames probably used far more skill and time on a professional writer than the computer geek who part-time doubled as gfx artist , sfx artist , composer and sometimes writer on your garage setup obscure game .
I can at least say that with most old games I can have kind memories but if I start playing then many of them I get fed up because it 's so simple and boring to a mind that 's had another ten years of experience at figuring stuff out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Welcome to getting older.
I can't believe how easy I was to entertain when I was a teen, plus then I didn't really know the meaning of "work".
It was all either fun or learning, even the grinding was just a little interlude.
And every generation talks about something, like how say vinyl had more soul than CDs, or the people in costumes had more soul than CGI, and how real world makebelieve had more soul than virtual makebelieve and so on.Each one of these megagames probably used far more skill and time on a professional writer than the computer geek who part-time doubled as gfx artist, sfx artist, composer and sometimes writer on your garage setup obscure game.
I can at least say that with most old games I can have kind memories but if I start playing then many of them I get fed up because it's so simple and boring to a mind that's had another ten years of experience at figuring stuff out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735338</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30741298</id>
	<title>Tiny budgets, considering...</title>
	<author>Dodger73</author>
	<datestamp>1263327240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Think about it. 10-20 hours of gameplay content, a few square miles' worth of environmental models and effects, dozens of characters and animations, matching voiceover and audio content, and the engine, AI and gameplay code to drive it all. Add to that between 20 minutes and an hour's worth of CG movies.
Now consider that we're doing this with teams 1/5th the size of what they are for 2-hour movies, at 1/8th of the budget in half the time (exceptions notwithstanding).
$50M for the most expensive games doesn't sound too bad compared to $500 for the most expensive movies...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Think about it .
10-20 hours of gameplay content , a few square miles ' worth of environmental models and effects , dozens of characters and animations , matching voiceover and audio content , and the engine , AI and gameplay code to drive it all .
Add to that between 20 minutes and an hour 's worth of CG movies .
Now consider that we 're doing this with teams 1/5th the size of what they are for 2-hour movies , at 1/8th of the budget in half the time ( exceptions notwithstanding ) .
$ 50M for the most expensive games does n't sound too bad compared to $ 500 for the most expensive movies.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Think about it.
10-20 hours of gameplay content, a few square miles' worth of environmental models and effects, dozens of characters and animations, matching voiceover and audio content, and the engine, AI and gameplay code to drive it all.
Add to that between 20 minutes and an hour's worth of CG movies.
Now consider that we're doing this with teams 1/5th the size of what they are for 2-hour movies, at 1/8th of the budget in half the time (exceptions notwithstanding).
$50M for the most expensive games doesn't sound too bad compared to $500 for the most expensive movies...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736512</id>
	<title>Re:Shouldn't be surprising</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263309240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Half of why movies are so expensive is actors and scriptwriters unions and the hollywood monopoly</p></div><p>Feh.  Seriously?  Was that necessary to bring in to this conversation?  You REALLY think unions are the reason why actors get paid so much?</p><p>By the way, there are a TON of movies made on a shoestring budget that rival anything out of Hollywood.  I Like Killing Flies is a move that is a perfect example of that.  Directed, Produced, Edited, AND Filmed all by one guy.</p><p>District 9 is another great example, although on a much larger scale.  Do you know how much District 9's budget was?  Go ahead, take a guess.  <a href="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2009/08/district-9s-neill-blomkamp-knows-how-to-stretch-a-dollar.html" title="latimes.com"> $30 Million.</a> [latimes.com]  Compare the visuals to that of any big-budget CGI laden film.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>'m old enough to rembember when one teenager could write a game on his home computer with a budget of zero</p></div><p>Check out Kongregate, Newgrounds, etc.  There are also a TON of games on XBLA/PSN, as well as <i>very</i> popular games made by folks using the XNA (I Made a Game with Zombies in it) and pretty much no cash.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Half of why movies are so expensive is actors and scriptwriters unions and the hollywood monopolyFeh .
Seriously ? Was that necessary to bring in to this conversation ?
You REALLY think unions are the reason why actors get paid so much ? By the way , there are a TON of movies made on a shoestring budget that rival anything out of Hollywood .
I Like Killing Flies is a move that is a perfect example of that .
Directed , Produced , Edited , AND Filmed all by one guy.District 9 is another great example , although on a much larger scale .
Do you know how much District 9 's budget was ?
Go ahead , take a guess .
$ 30 Million .
[ latimes.com ] Compare the visuals to that of any big-budget CGI laden film .
'm old enough to rembember when one teenager could write a game on his home computer with a budget of zeroCheck out Kongregate , Newgrounds , etc .
There are also a TON of games on XBLA/PSN , as well as very popular games made by folks using the XNA ( I Made a Game with Zombies in it ) and pretty much no cash .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Half of why movies are so expensive is actors and scriptwriters unions and the hollywood monopolyFeh.
Seriously?  Was that necessary to bring in to this conversation?
You REALLY think unions are the reason why actors get paid so much?By the way, there are a TON of movies made on a shoestring budget that rival anything out of Hollywood.
I Like Killing Flies is a move that is a perfect example of that.
Directed, Produced, Edited, AND Filmed all by one guy.District 9 is another great example, although on a much larger scale.
Do you know how much District 9's budget was?
Go ahead, take a guess.
$30 Million.
[latimes.com]  Compare the visuals to that of any big-budget CGI laden film.
'm old enough to rembember when one teenager could write a game on his home computer with a budget of zeroCheck out Kongregate, Newgrounds, etc.
There are also a TON of games on XBLA/PSN, as well as very popular games made by folks using the XNA (I Made a Game with Zombies in it) and pretty much no cash.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735894</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736244</id>
	<title>How far we've come</title>
	<author>Skraut</author>
	<datestamp>1263307500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>10 years ago I worked on a major title for the Dreamcast, "Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future" and our budget of somewhere around 2.5M was considered excessive.</htmltext>
<tokenext>10 years ago I worked on a major title for the Dreamcast , " Ecco the Dolphin : Defender of the Future " and our budget of somewhere around 2.5M was considered excessive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>10 years ago I worked on a major title for the Dreamcast, "Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future" and our budget of somewhere around 2.5M was considered excessive.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30739444</id>
	<title>Re:Half the cost for another platform?</title>
	<author>MobileTatsu-NJG</author>
	<datestamp>1263320160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I didn't read the article, but, how can making a game multiplatform almost double the cost? I thought the art, levels, motion capturing, all the data, etc... was the most expensive.</p></div><p>I didn't RTFA either, but in recent memory a number of games have had graphical differences across platforms that required artist intervention.  I don't know about it being 'double' the cost to do that, but man-hours can really add up when you have to scour all the assets for all the game locales to deal with a different limit.   Given the differences between the architectures of the XBOX and PS3, it makes some sense.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I did n't read the article , but , how can making a game multiplatform almost double the cost ?
I thought the art , levels , motion capturing , all the data , etc... was the most expensive.I did n't RTFA either , but in recent memory a number of games have had graphical differences across platforms that required artist intervention .
I do n't know about it being 'double ' the cost to do that , but man-hours can really add up when you have to scour all the assets for all the game locales to deal with a different limit .
Given the differences between the architectures of the XBOX and PS3 , it makes some sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I didn't read the article, but, how can making a game multiplatform almost double the cost?
I thought the art, levels, motion capturing, all the data, etc... was the most expensive.I didn't RTFA either, but in recent memory a number of games have had graphical differences across platforms that required artist intervention.
I don't know about it being 'double' the cost to do that, but man-hours can really add up when you have to scour all the assets for all the game locales to deal with a different limit.
Given the differences between the architectures of the XBOX and PS3, it makes some sense.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735338</id>
	<title>More complicated and less fun</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263299880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Games keep getting more and more complicated and more expensive but no more fun.  I just completed Assassin's Creed over the weekend. I found the gameplay mechanic for Theif, which preceded it by over ten years, to me much more fun.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Games keep getting more and more complicated and more expensive but no more fun .
I just completed Assassin 's Creed over the weekend .
I found the gameplay mechanic for Theif , which preceded it by over ten years , to me much more fun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Games keep getting more and more complicated and more expensive but no more fun.
I just completed Assassin's Creed over the weekend.
I found the gameplay mechanic for Theif, which preceded it by over ten years, to me much more fun.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736220</id>
	<title>Do large budgets lead to boring games?</title>
	<author>Organic Brain Damage</author>
	<datestamp>1263307260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Funny how not one of the big-team $20 million + games can compete when it comes to fun/playability/originality with the 2-man team's World of Goo.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny how not one of the big-team $ 20 million + games can compete when it comes to fun/playability/originality with the 2-man team 's World of Goo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny how not one of the big-team $20 million + games can compete when it comes to fun/playability/originality with the 2-man team's World of Goo.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735292</id>
	<title>Shouldn't be surprising</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263299580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't see why this is surprising. A game has as much visual design per frame as a Hollywood CGI movie, yet is typically much longer. Add to that the interactivity. The hours of dialogue. The playtesting.</p><p>It's surprising that games are cheaper to make than movies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see why this is surprising .
A game has as much visual design per frame as a Hollywood CGI movie , yet is typically much longer .
Add to that the interactivity .
The hours of dialogue .
The playtesting.It 's surprising that games are cheaper to make than movies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see why this is surprising.
A game has as much visual design per frame as a Hollywood CGI movie, yet is typically much longer.
Add to that the interactivity.
The hours of dialogue.
The playtesting.It's surprising that games are cheaper to make than movies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735522</id>
	<title>Re:Half the cost for another platform?</title>
	<author>skreeech</author>
	<datestamp>1263301560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it might be something to do with multiplatform usually meaning PS3, 360, PC, while Single platform includes the Wii, portables, and download service games so small that they are unique to one service, the latter having much lower costs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it might be something to do with multiplatform usually meaning PS3 , 360 , PC , while Single platform includes the Wii , portables , and download service games so small that they are unique to one service , the latter having much lower costs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it might be something to do with multiplatform usually meaning PS3, 360, PC, while Single platform includes the Wii, portables, and download service games so small that they are unique to one service, the latter having much lower costs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735340</id>
	<title>Re:Half the cost for another platform?</title>
	<author>slim</author>
	<datestamp>1263299880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ugh I responded in the wrong place. See "correlation is not causation" above.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ugh I responded in the wrong place .
See " correlation is not causation " above .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ugh I responded in the wrong place.
See "correlation is not causation" above.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736566</id>
	<title>Re:Half the cost for another platform?</title>
	<author>Pojut</author>
	<datestamp>1263309480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Testing, development kits, more staff to work on each port...not to mention the porting itself.  It isn't as simple as just clicking a button, it's actually a fairly intense process.  It's safe to say that hiring people who know what they are doing when it comes to the porting process doesn't come cheap, either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Testing , development kits , more staff to work on each port...not to mention the porting itself .
It is n't as simple as just clicking a button , it 's actually a fairly intense process .
It 's safe to say that hiring people who know what they are doing when it comes to the porting process does n't come cheap , either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Testing, development kits, more staff to work on each port...not to mention the porting itself.
It isn't as simple as just clicking a button, it's actually a fairly intense process.
It's safe to say that hiring people who know what they are doing when it comes to the porting process doesn't come cheap, either.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735400</id>
	<title>Re:More complicated and less fun</title>
	<author>RogueyWon</author>
	<datestamp>1263300420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not a particularly fair comparison. Thief was acknowledged at the time as a classic; there are usually one or two games per year that achieve this status. The original Assassin's Creed had distinctly mixed reviews, with criticism particularly levelled at poor and unintuitive controls and mechanics (apparently the sequel is better, but I haven't played it).</p><p>I've played plenty of recent games from the same genre that I'd rate more highly than Thief in objective terms; Batman: Arkham Asylum being probably the best example of the last few months.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not a particularly fair comparison .
Thief was acknowledged at the time as a classic ; there are usually one or two games per year that achieve this status .
The original Assassin 's Creed had distinctly mixed reviews , with criticism particularly levelled at poor and unintuitive controls and mechanics ( apparently the sequel is better , but I have n't played it ) .I 've played plenty of recent games from the same genre that I 'd rate more highly than Thief in objective terms ; Batman : Arkham Asylum being probably the best example of the last few months .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not a particularly fair comparison.
Thief was acknowledged at the time as a classic; there are usually one or two games per year that achieve this status.
The original Assassin's Creed had distinctly mixed reviews, with criticism particularly levelled at poor and unintuitive controls and mechanics (apparently the sequel is better, but I haven't played it).I've played plenty of recent games from the same genre that I'd rate more highly than Thief in objective terms; Batman: Arkham Asylum being probably the best example of the last few months.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735338</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736702</id>
	<title>And then there's Duke Nukem Forever...</title>
	<author>damn\_registrars</author>
	<datestamp>1263310200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... which spent that much just on strippers.  But hey, it was <i>really</i> important to get that part right!</htmltext>
<tokenext>... which spent that much just on strippers .
But hey , it was really important to get that part right !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... which spent that much just on strippers.
But hey, it was really important to get that part right!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736258</id>
	<title>Re:Flash+Java+Xbox 360+iPhone+PC?</title>
	<author>slim</author>
	<datestamp>1263307560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm pretty sure TOA is talking about PC+Xbox360+PS3 and maybe Wii. Nobody's blowing $20M on making a Flash game.</p><p>Having said that, PopCap and their ilk make games in the space you're talking about. I'm certain Peggle didn't have a $20M budget.</p><p>A decent strategy for that kind of game would be to write for a VM, and implement that VM on all the target platforms. That was the approach taken by Infocom for their text adventures, and by LucasArts for their point+click adventures.</p><p>Somewhere there's an interview with PopCap, however, where they explain that they don't do that. They reuse what they can, but every version of Peggle is a "hard work" port. If that involves rewriting the physics engine in a different language, so be it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm pretty sure TOA is talking about PC + Xbox360 + PS3 and maybe Wii .
Nobody 's blowing $ 20M on making a Flash game.Having said that , PopCap and their ilk make games in the space you 're talking about .
I 'm certain Peggle did n't have a $ 20M budget.A decent strategy for that kind of game would be to write for a VM , and implement that VM on all the target platforms .
That was the approach taken by Infocom for their text adventures , and by LucasArts for their point + click adventures.Somewhere there 's an interview with PopCap , however , where they explain that they do n't do that .
They reuse what they can , but every version of Peggle is a " hard work " port .
If that involves rewriting the physics engine in a different language , so be it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm pretty sure TOA is talking about PC+Xbox360+PS3 and maybe Wii.
Nobody's blowing $20M on making a Flash game.Having said that, PopCap and their ilk make games in the space you're talking about.
I'm certain Peggle didn't have a $20M budget.A decent strategy for that kind of game would be to write for a VM, and implement that VM on all the target platforms.
That was the approach taken by Infocom for their text adventures, and by LucasArts for their point+click adventures.Somewhere there's an interview with PopCap, however, where they explain that they don't do that.
They reuse what they can, but every version of Peggle is a "hard work" port.
If that involves rewriting the physics engine in a different language, so be it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735834</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735834</id>
	<title>Flash+Java+Xbox 360+iPhone+PC?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263304680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>if you develop for multiplatform a lot of code (AI etc...) can be shared and only things like renderer and input need multiple implementations, which can't be THAT much more work??</p></div><p>I know of no single language that compiles to every single bytecode. For example, say you want to publish a game on several platforms. One only runs ActionScript bytecode. Another only runs JVM bytecode. Another exclusively uses CLR bytecode (unless you're a large enough business to qualify for PowerPC instructions). Another uses ARM instructions. Another uses x86 instructions. So in what language should the developer write the physics and AI to target all platforms?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>if you develop for multiplatform a lot of code ( AI etc... ) can be shared and only things like renderer and input need multiple implementations , which ca n't be THAT much more work ?
? I know of no single language that compiles to every single bytecode .
For example , say you want to publish a game on several platforms .
One only runs ActionScript bytecode .
Another only runs JVM bytecode .
Another exclusively uses CLR bytecode ( unless you 're a large enough business to qualify for PowerPC instructions ) .
Another uses ARM instructions .
Another uses x86 instructions .
So in what language should the developer write the physics and AI to target all platforms ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if you develop for multiplatform a lot of code (AI etc...) can be shared and only things like renderer and input need multiple implementations, which can't be THAT much more work?
?I know of no single language that compiles to every single bytecode.
For example, say you want to publish a game on several platforms.
One only runs ActionScript bytecode.
Another only runs JVM bytecode.
Another exclusively uses CLR bytecode (unless you're a large enough business to qualify for PowerPC instructions).
Another uses ARM instructions.
Another uses x86 instructions.
So in what language should the developer write the physics and AI to target all platforms?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735306</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30740048</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing Budgets can dwarf Dev Costs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263322380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Im sure he would of done it correctly if you would of helped him out a little before hand. You would of saved your self some pain too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Im sure he would of done it correctly if you would of helped him out a little before hand .
You would of saved your self some pain too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Im sure he would of done it correctly if you would of helped him out a little before hand.
You would of saved your self some pain too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736150</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736358</id>
	<title>Re:Do large budgets lead to boring games?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263308220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>True, but then people buy games for the looks on the whole. Always have and always will...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>True , but then people buy games for the looks on the whole .
Always have and always will.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True, but then people buy games for the looks on the whole.
Always have and always will...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30740796</id>
	<title>Pre-OnLive Figures</title>
	<author>RTigger</author>
	<datestamp>1263325260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It'll be interesting to see if/when <a href="http://www.viddler.com/explore/gamertagradio/videos/160/169.707/" title="viddler.com" rel="nofollow">OnLive</a> [viddler.com] launches how this affects the gaming industry.  Moving everything to a single-platform online-only producer-to-customer distribution model is definitely going to throw a wrench in the current business model.

Also makes me wonder if OnLive's potential for success is part of the reason why we haven't heard any news on new console development in awhile...</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 'll be interesting to see if/when OnLive [ viddler.com ] launches how this affects the gaming industry .
Moving everything to a single-platform online-only producer-to-customer distribution model is definitely going to throw a wrench in the current business model .
Also makes me wonder if OnLive 's potential for success is part of the reason why we have n't heard any news on new console development in awhile.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It'll be interesting to see if/when OnLive [viddler.com] launches how this affects the gaming industry.
Moving everything to a single-platform online-only producer-to-customer distribution model is definitely going to throw a wrench in the current business model.
Also makes me wonder if OnLive's potential for success is part of the reason why we haven't heard any news on new console development in awhile...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30745128</id>
	<title>Re:Shouldn't be surprising</title>
	<author>dagamer34</author>
	<datestamp>1263302880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because no one person is being paid millions of dollars. Plus, movies have multiple stops to make money where as games do not. Just looking at box office sales doesn't tell the whole picture.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because no one person is being paid millions of dollars .
Plus , movies have multiple stops to make money where as games do not .
Just looking at box office sales does n't tell the whole picture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because no one person is being paid millions of dollars.
Plus, movies have multiple stops to make money where as games do not.
Just looking at box office sales doesn't tell the whole picture.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30742082</id>
	<title>Re:Shouldn't be surprising</title>
	<author>Wyatt Earp</author>
	<datestamp>1263287520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>District 9 is another great example, although on a much larger scale. Do you know how much District 9's budget was? Go ahead, take a guess. $30 Million. [latimes.com] Compare the visuals to that of any big-budget CGI laden film.</p><p>Compared to the graphics of Avatar, yea, I can see how D9 was 1/10 the price.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>District 9 is another great example , although on a much larger scale .
Do you know how much District 9 's budget was ?
Go ahead , take a guess .
$ 30 Million .
[ latimes.com ] Compare the visuals to that of any big-budget CGI laden film.Compared to the graphics of Avatar , yea , I can see how D9 was 1/10 the price .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>District 9 is another great example, although on a much larger scale.
Do you know how much District 9's budget was?
Go ahead, take a guess.
$30 Million.
[latimes.com] Compare the visuals to that of any big-budget CGI laden film.Compared to the graphics of Avatar, yea, I can see how D9 was 1/10 the price.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736236</id>
	<title>Is that including the marketing?</title>
	<author>hesaigo999ca</author>
	<datestamp>1263307380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is that for game development only, or are we including those highly expensive spots during super bowl to show call of duty 23<br>I like computer games as much as the next guy, but a lot of budgets are also grossly exaggerated so that the next year you keep that same budget, as in the military, wasting money so you don't lose your budget the next year....if a new company comes out and puts out a game as good as some of these with big budgets, and obviously with 1/10 the budget being new and all, does that not mean you CAN make a game for less, but just choose not to?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is that for game development only , or are we including those highly expensive spots during super bowl to show call of duty 23I like computer games as much as the next guy , but a lot of budgets are also grossly exaggerated so that the next year you keep that same budget , as in the military , wasting money so you do n't lose your budget the next year....if a new company comes out and puts out a game as good as some of these with big budgets , and obviously with 1/10 the budget being new and all , does that not mean you CAN make a game for less , but just choose not to ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is that for game development only, or are we including those highly expensive spots during super bowl to show call of duty 23I like computer games as much as the next guy, but a lot of budgets are also grossly exaggerated so that the next year you keep that same budget, as in the military, wasting money so you don't lose your budget the next year....if a new company comes out and puts out a game as good as some of these with big budgets, and obviously with 1/10 the budget being new and all, does that not mean you CAN make a game for less, but just choose not to?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30743074</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing Budgets can dwarf Dev Costs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263292620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...Yet, nobody complains about 'loose' or 'payed'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...Yet , nobody complains about 'loose ' or 'payed' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...Yet, nobody complains about 'loose' or 'payed'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736150</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30742170</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing Budgets can dwarf Dev Costs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263287940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>God dammit! It's "would HAVE had"!</p></div></blockquote><p>

Actually, Mr. Absolutist Grammar Genius, it sounds like he was going for "would've had," so he's at least phonetically correct.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>God dammit !
It 's " would HAVE had " !
Actually , Mr. Absolutist Grammar Genius , it sounds like he was going for " would 've had , " so he 's at least phonetically correct .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>God dammit!
It's "would HAVE had"!
Actually, Mr. Absolutist Grammar Genius, it sounds like he was going for "would've had," so he's at least phonetically correct.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736150</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30736900</id>
	<title>Re:Shouldn't be surprising</title>
	<author>KDR\_11k</author>
	<datestamp>1263310980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The figures I've seen was that the marketing budget was another 250 million dollars.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The figures I 've seen was that the marketing budget was another 250 million dollars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The figures I've seen was that the marketing budget was another 250 million dollars.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735514</id>
	<title>Re:More complicated and less fun</title>
	<author>Trepidity</author>
	<datestamp>1263301500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That fact makes me increasingly interested in just treating the history of games as something to mine for stuff to play. I used to have basically a 1- or 2-year game horizon: what I'm going to play this weekend was determined by choosing from the list of recent games. But now I have more like a 20-year horizon; I might play a recent game this weekend, or I might play a classic game I've heard a lot about that I haven't gotten around to experiencing myself, yet. It seems that as games get taken more seriously as a medium, instead of just throw-away entertainment, it ought to move in that direction. I mean, it's not like avid readers read <i>only</i> new-release best-sellers. Sometimes you do, but sometimes you read Victor Hugo or Isaac Asimov.</p><p>Even for new games, there are fortunately still a lot of less-expensive games that come out that can be innovative, and some even manage to get some decent press; World of Goo and Braid are two of the more prominent recent success stories. This year's <a href="http://www.igf.com/02finalists.html" title="igf.com">Indie Game Festival</a> [igf.com] has a lot of interesting stuff, too. Indie games might be even more vibrant than indie film is, these days.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That fact makes me increasingly interested in just treating the history of games as something to mine for stuff to play .
I used to have basically a 1- or 2-year game horizon : what I 'm going to play this weekend was determined by choosing from the list of recent games .
But now I have more like a 20-year horizon ; I might play a recent game this weekend , or I might play a classic game I 've heard a lot about that I have n't gotten around to experiencing myself , yet .
It seems that as games get taken more seriously as a medium , instead of just throw-away entertainment , it ought to move in that direction .
I mean , it 's not like avid readers read only new-release best-sellers .
Sometimes you do , but sometimes you read Victor Hugo or Isaac Asimov.Even for new games , there are fortunately still a lot of less-expensive games that come out that can be innovative , and some even manage to get some decent press ; World of Goo and Braid are two of the more prominent recent success stories .
This year 's Indie Game Festival [ igf.com ] has a lot of interesting stuff , too .
Indie games might be even more vibrant than indie film is , these days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That fact makes me increasingly interested in just treating the history of games as something to mine for stuff to play.
I used to have basically a 1- or 2-year game horizon: what I'm going to play this weekend was determined by choosing from the list of recent games.
But now I have more like a 20-year horizon; I might play a recent game this weekend, or I might play a classic game I've heard a lot about that I haven't gotten around to experiencing myself, yet.
It seems that as games get taken more seriously as a medium, instead of just throw-away entertainment, it ought to move in that direction.
I mean, it's not like avid readers read only new-release best-sellers.
Sometimes you do, but sometimes you read Victor Hugo or Isaac Asimov.Even for new games, there are fortunately still a lot of less-expensive games that come out that can be innovative, and some even manage to get some decent press; World of Goo and Braid are two of the more prominent recent success stories.
This year's Indie Game Festival [igf.com] has a lot of interesting stuff, too.
Indie games might be even more vibrant than indie film is, these days.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735338</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735542</id>
	<title>Marketing Budgets can dwarf Dev Costs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1263301920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you took at any recent AAA title game, marketing and distribution costs are huge. Apparently the marketing budget for COD:MW2 was $200 million (although that probably includes distribution costs) with development $40-50 million. According to <a href="http://www.thatvideogameblog.com/2009/11/19/modern-warfare-2s-development-budget-40-50-million/" title="thatvideogameblog.com">http://www.thatvideogameblog.com/2009/11/19/modern-warfare-2s-development-budget-40-50-million/</a> [thatvideogameblog.com]
<br>
Halo 3's was $40 million+ of marketing, similar to dev cost. GTAIV would of had similar if not more, being a multi platform title. Although wiki says the development of GTAIV was estimated to cost near $100.
<br>
A friend of mine from THQ complained that De Blob sold really well, then they blew the equivalent of profits on the marketing campaign for japan, and the game flopped there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you took at any recent AAA title game , marketing and distribution costs are huge .
Apparently the marketing budget for COD : MW2 was $ 200 million ( although that probably includes distribution costs ) with development $ 40-50 million .
According to http : //www.thatvideogameblog.com/2009/11/19/modern-warfare-2s-development-budget-40-50-million/ [ thatvideogameblog.com ] Halo 3 's was $ 40 million + of marketing , similar to dev cost .
GTAIV would of had similar if not more , being a multi platform title .
Although wiki says the development of GTAIV was estimated to cost near $ 100 .
A friend of mine from THQ complained that De Blob sold really well , then they blew the equivalent of profits on the marketing campaign for japan , and the game flopped there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you took at any recent AAA title game, marketing and distribution costs are huge.
Apparently the marketing budget for COD:MW2 was $200 million (although that probably includes distribution costs) with development $40-50 million.
According to http://www.thatvideogameblog.com/2009/11/19/modern-warfare-2s-development-budget-40-50-million/ [thatvideogameblog.com]

Halo 3's was $40 million+ of marketing, similar to dev cost.
GTAIV would of had similar if not more, being a multi platform title.
Although wiki says the development of GTAIV was estimated to cost near $100.
A friend of mine from THQ complained that De Blob sold really well, then they blew the equivalent of profits on the marketing campaign for japan, and the game flopped there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735444</id>
	<title>Re:Shouldn't be surprising</title>
	<author>IrquiM</author>
	<datestamp>1263300840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But you don't have to pay for Matt Damon!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But you do n't have to pay for Matt Damon !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But you don't have to pay for Matt Damon!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30743602</id>
	<title>Re:More complicated and less fun</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1263295020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So... you're comparing a mediocre modern game to one of the best FPSes ever made?</p><p>The only real conclusion you can draw here is, "some games are good, some games are bad."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So... you 're comparing a mediocre modern game to one of the best FPSes ever made ? The only real conclusion you can draw here is , " some games are good , some games are bad .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So... you're comparing a mediocre modern game to one of the best FPSes ever made?The only real conclusion you can draw here is, "some games are good, some games are bad.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_12_071215.30735338</parent>
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