<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article10_01_08_1734234</id>
	<title>Managing Young Sys Admins At Oregon State Open Source Lab</title>
	<author>ScuttleMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1262937840000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>mstansberry writes <i>"Lance Albertson, architect and systems administrator at the Oregon State University Open Source Lab, uses a sys admin staff of <a href="http://searchdatacenter.stage.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid80\_gci1378294,00.html">18-21-year-old undergrads to manage servers</a> for some high-profile, open-source projects (Linux Master Kernel, Linux Foundation, Apache Software Foundation, and Drupal to name a few). In this Q&amp;A, Albertson talks about the challenges of using young sys admins and the lab's plans to move from Cfengine to Puppet for systems management."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>mstansberry writes " Lance Albertson , architect and systems administrator at the Oregon State University Open Source Lab , uses a sys admin staff of 18-21-year-old undergrads to manage servers for some high-profile , open-source projects ( Linux Master Kernel , Linux Foundation , Apache Software Foundation , and Drupal to name a few ) .
In this Q&amp;A , Albertson talks about the challenges of using young sys admins and the lab 's plans to move from Cfengine to Puppet for systems management .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>mstansberry writes "Lance Albertson, architect and systems administrator at the Oregon State University Open Source Lab, uses a sys admin staff of 18-21-year-old undergrads to manage servers for some high-profile, open-source projects (Linux Master Kernel, Linux Foundation, Apache Software Foundation, and Drupal to name a few).
In this Q&amp;A, Albertson talks about the challenges of using young sys admins and the lab's plans to move from Cfengine to Puppet for systems management.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699512</id>
	<title>But age is only a number...</title>
	<author>MrCrassic</author>
	<datestamp>1262943120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought that being a good sysadmin, or a good tennis player, or a good <i>anything</i> depended on the <i>experience</i> and natural talent the person has, not his or her age. There are kids out there that can probably develop much, much better than many with years and years of experience in the field; hell, most of the hackers back in the day were kids themselves!</p><p>I think that actually letting these folks do something of importance with their skills is more laudable, since most companies that hire undergrads or high school students can only afford to give them low-risk projects that may or may not contribute to their development of in-field experience.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought that being a good sysadmin , or a good tennis player , or a good anything depended on the experience and natural talent the person has , not his or her age .
There are kids out there that can probably develop much , much better than many with years and years of experience in the field ; hell , most of the hackers back in the day were kids themselves ! I think that actually letting these folks do something of importance with their skills is more laudable , since most companies that hire undergrads or high school students can only afford to give them low-risk projects that may or may not contribute to their development of in-field experience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought that being a good sysadmin, or a good tennis player, or a good anything depended on the experience and natural talent the person has, not his or her age.
There are kids out there that can probably develop much, much better than many with years and years of experience in the field; hell, most of the hackers back in the day were kids themselves!I think that actually letting these folks do something of importance with their skills is more laudable, since most companies that hire undergrads or high school students can only afford to give them low-risk projects that may or may not contribute to their development of in-field experience.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30703378</id>
	<title>So that explains</title>
	<author>/dev/trash</author>
	<datestamp>1262962080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why the Drupal site is so dog ass slow at times.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why the Drupal site is so dog ass slow at times .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why the Drupal site is so dog ass slow at times.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30700366</id>
	<title>No Free lunch</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262946540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Free labor aint free</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Free labor aint free</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Free labor aint free</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699556</id>
	<title>Re:That's what you do in a university...</title>
	<author>uncledrax</author>
	<datestamp>1262943300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Um... Don't all universities use students as free/cheap labor?</p></div><p>There fixed that for you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Um... Do n't all universities use students as free/cheap labor ? There fixed that for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um... Don't all universities use students as free/cheap labor?There fixed that for you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699910</id>
	<title>FriSt stop</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262944680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>webSite. Mr. de</htmltext>
<tokenext>webSite .
Mr. de</tokentext>
<sentencetext>webSite.
Mr. de</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699502</id>
	<title>Re:Lesson 1</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262943120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>yeah and at that age "consequences" are 'delivered  by storks'</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>yeah and at that age " consequences " are 'delivered by storks'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>yeah and at that age "consequences" are 'delivered  by storks'</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699266</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30701864</id>
	<title>Re:How do you find a young sys admin??</title>
	<author>IMightB</author>
	<datestamp>1262953680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>99.99 of sysadmin'ing comes from experience, which young ones do not have, or are in the process of learning (90\% of the time due to necessity, being the low person on the totem).  the experienced ones know enough to know that experience isn't cheap.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>99.99 of sysadmin'ing comes from experience , which young ones do not have , or are in the process of learning ( 90 \ % of the time due to necessity , being the low person on the totem ) .
the experienced ones know enough to know that experience is n't cheap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>99.99 of sysadmin'ing comes from experience, which young ones do not have, or are in the process of learning (90\% of the time due to necessity, being the low person on the totem).
the experienced ones know enough to know that experience isn't cheap.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30700488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699510</id>
	<title>I don't get it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262943120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I was 18 I started at a Managed Hosting company that just recently went public as a Linux Sysadmin. I've had my hands on the insides of some very big web companies, and I've gone through the ups and downs. Such as the recent Dallas Outages or the infamous driver who knocked out our power a few years back. Along with being thrust into a Sysadmin position barely after getting out of high school (and college as I graduated at 17 before I did high school), I've also had to deal with corporate heads trying to make their imprints.

These kids had it ***king easy, I've had to let guys cry on the phone because they didn't have any backups and their whole business was relying on that one thing on their server. I've learned infinitely more in this environment (no I'm not at work right now) than I would have if I had gone into my university lab as an admin.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was 18 I started at a Managed Hosting company that just recently went public as a Linux Sysadmin .
I 've had my hands on the insides of some very big web companies , and I 've gone through the ups and downs .
Such as the recent Dallas Outages or the infamous driver who knocked out our power a few years back .
Along with being thrust into a Sysadmin position barely after getting out of high school ( and college as I graduated at 17 before I did high school ) , I 've also had to deal with corporate heads trying to make their imprints .
These kids had it * * * king easy , I 've had to let guys cry on the phone because they did n't have any backups and their whole business was relying on that one thing on their server .
I 've learned infinitely more in this environment ( no I 'm not at work right now ) than I would have if I had gone into my university lab as an admin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was 18 I started at a Managed Hosting company that just recently went public as a Linux Sysadmin.
I've had my hands on the insides of some very big web companies, and I've gone through the ups and downs.
Such as the recent Dallas Outages or the infamous driver who knocked out our power a few years back.
Along with being thrust into a Sysadmin position barely after getting out of high school (and college as I graduated at 17 before I did high school), I've also had to deal with corporate heads trying to make their imprints.
These kids had it ***king easy, I've had to let guys cry on the phone because they didn't have any backups and their whole business was relying on that one thing on their server.
I've learned infinitely more in this environment (no I'm not at work right now) than I would have if I had gone into my university lab as an admin.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30700542</id>
	<title>Re:Amazing.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262947500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was one of the co-founders of the Open Source Lab with Scott Kveton and was involved in hiring Lance (I'm still one of the BOA members for the lab).  One of our core "visions" for the lab was to create a place for younger developers and admins to be able to get top notch skills and jobs out of school.  Because of that, our goal was not SOLELY to be the huge infrastructure host that the OSL is better known for, but to REALLY TRAIN YOUNG TECHNOLOGISTS.</p><p>So as the first operations manager of the lab, I believed in the military axiom (thanks to Lt. Gen. Harold Moore): Power and loyalty go down, not up.  We gave kids extraordinarily advanced jobs that a lot of companies don't give to far more experienced people.  And the students almost universally took the responsibility seriously, and did better than I/we ever expected.  Of course there were some controls and supervision.  Lance and Corey Shields before him have done fantastic jobs of keeping things robust and secure while at the same time training young professionals to levels unheard of at that stage in similar career stages.  To be smug and wankerish, it is one of the things I am most proud of.  In fact, I have more pride in the students who all got great careers going because of the OSL than I am of the size and number of projects we host.  I'm a little old fashioned I guess, but the OSL is at a UNIVERSITY.</p><p>Jason McKerr/Anonymous coward</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was one of the co-founders of the Open Source Lab with Scott Kveton and was involved in hiring Lance ( I 'm still one of the BOA members for the lab ) .
One of our core " visions " for the lab was to create a place for younger developers and admins to be able to get top notch skills and jobs out of school .
Because of that , our goal was not SOLELY to be the huge infrastructure host that the OSL is better known for , but to REALLY TRAIN YOUNG TECHNOLOGISTS.So as the first operations manager of the lab , I believed in the military axiom ( thanks to Lt. Gen. Harold Moore ) : Power and loyalty go down , not up .
We gave kids extraordinarily advanced jobs that a lot of companies do n't give to far more experienced people .
And the students almost universally took the responsibility seriously , and did better than I/we ever expected .
Of course there were some controls and supervision .
Lance and Corey Shields before him have done fantastic jobs of keeping things robust and secure while at the same time training young professionals to levels unheard of at that stage in similar career stages .
To be smug and wankerish , it is one of the things I am most proud of .
In fact , I have more pride in the students who all got great careers going because of the OSL than I am of the size and number of projects we host .
I 'm a little old fashioned I guess , but the OSL is at a UNIVERSITY.Jason McKerr/Anonymous coward</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was one of the co-founders of the Open Source Lab with Scott Kveton and was involved in hiring Lance (I'm still one of the BOA members for the lab).
One of our core "visions" for the lab was to create a place for younger developers and admins to be able to get top notch skills and jobs out of school.
Because of that, our goal was not SOLELY to be the huge infrastructure host that the OSL is better known for, but to REALLY TRAIN YOUNG TECHNOLOGISTS.So as the first operations manager of the lab, I believed in the military axiom (thanks to Lt. Gen. Harold Moore): Power and loyalty go down, not up.
We gave kids extraordinarily advanced jobs that a lot of companies don't give to far more experienced people.
And the students almost universally took the responsibility seriously, and did better than I/we ever expected.
Of course there were some controls and supervision.
Lance and Corey Shields before him have done fantastic jobs of keeping things robust and secure while at the same time training young professionals to levels unheard of at that stage in similar career stages.
To be smug and wankerish, it is one of the things I am most proud of.
In fact, I have more pride in the students who all got great careers going because of the OSL than I am of the size and number of projects we host.
I'm a little old fashioned I guess, but the OSL is at a UNIVERSITY.Jason McKerr/Anonymous coward</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699284</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699656</id>
	<title>Re:That's what you do in a university...</title>
	<author>jimbolauski</author>
	<datestamp>1262943720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most Universities will have a an old timer system admin and students that run the Hell desk, they are given Admin privileges to the computers but not the system.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most Universities will have a an old timer system admin and students that run the Hell desk , they are given Admin privileges to the computers but not the system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most Universities will have a an old timer system admin and students that run the Hell desk, they are given Admin privileges to the computers but not the system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30704538</id>
	<title>OSU corruption</title>
	<author>NSN A392-99-964-5927</author>
	<datestamp>1262971920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Deidre Waters is partly responsible for this and irc.freenode which servers run from OSU and stupid GENTOO devs who steal BSD code and port it to gentoo, if you do not like my comment then sue me. Open source offer! GPL and BSD licensed.

Bytes just nibble a bit.... meow<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Deidre Waters is partly responsible for this and irc.freenode which servers run from OSU and stupid GENTOO devs who steal BSD code and port it to gentoo , if you do not like my comment then sue me .
Open source offer !
GPL and BSD licensed .
Bytes just nibble a bit.... meow : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Deidre Waters is partly responsible for this and irc.freenode which servers run from OSU and stupid GENTOO devs who steal BSD code and port it to gentoo, if you do not like my comment then sue me.
Open source offer!
GPL and BSD licensed.
Bytes just nibble a bit.... meow :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30700256</id>
	<title>Re:Lesson 1</title>
	<author>bzipitidoo</author>
	<datestamp>1262946120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think patience and learning when to say "no" are big ones too.

</p><p>It's so tempting and easy to take shortcuts in system administration.  "We don't need to waste time checking our backups" or, worse, "we don't need to backup" before doing major work is just the sort of time saving notion that can really haunt you if something goes wrong.  Ugly when you need those backups and you discover the backup system you put into place in a similarly hasty fashion has some tiny little problem, maybe an incorrect flag on a command, and so the backups are no good.  Can't spend all your time on paranoid checking either, of course.  It's an art juggling these risks, deciding what is critical and what is not.  There are never enough resources.  If you have to make room in order to back up something, and it's going to take an hour or more to find things that can be deleted, clean out trash, compress directories that haven't been used recently, move files around, and so on, it's tempting to skip it, particularly if an impatient PHB is breathing down your neck, and other users are just waiting to pounce on that space the minute you free it up.  Then there are the programmers who can't write anything that doesn't waste gobs of disk space and RAM.  Someone notices when their code makes excessive use of the CPU, but a few megabytes of hard drive space flys under the radar.  Some really think it isn't worth even a few minutes of their time to fix things like that, not when they're under the gun themselves to bang out more features as fast as possible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think patience and learning when to say " no " are big ones too .
It 's so tempting and easy to take shortcuts in system administration .
" We do n't need to waste time checking our backups " or , worse , " we do n't need to backup " before doing major work is just the sort of time saving notion that can really haunt you if something goes wrong .
Ugly when you need those backups and you discover the backup system you put into place in a similarly hasty fashion has some tiny little problem , maybe an incorrect flag on a command , and so the backups are no good .
Ca n't spend all your time on paranoid checking either , of course .
It 's an art juggling these risks , deciding what is critical and what is not .
There are never enough resources .
If you have to make room in order to back up something , and it 's going to take an hour or more to find things that can be deleted , clean out trash , compress directories that have n't been used recently , move files around , and so on , it 's tempting to skip it , particularly if an impatient PHB is breathing down your neck , and other users are just waiting to pounce on that space the minute you free it up .
Then there are the programmers who ca n't write anything that does n't waste gobs of disk space and RAM .
Someone notices when their code makes excessive use of the CPU , but a few megabytes of hard drive space flys under the radar .
Some really think it is n't worth even a few minutes of their time to fix things like that , not when they 're under the gun themselves to bang out more features as fast as possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think patience and learning when to say "no" are big ones too.
It's so tempting and easy to take shortcuts in system administration.
"We don't need to waste time checking our backups" or, worse, "we don't need to backup" before doing major work is just the sort of time saving notion that can really haunt you if something goes wrong.
Ugly when you need those backups and you discover the backup system you put into place in a similarly hasty fashion has some tiny little problem, maybe an incorrect flag on a command, and so the backups are no good.
Can't spend all your time on paranoid checking either, of course.
It's an art juggling these risks, deciding what is critical and what is not.
There are never enough resources.
If you have to make room in order to back up something, and it's going to take an hour or more to find things that can be deleted, clean out trash, compress directories that haven't been used recently, move files around, and so on, it's tempting to skip it, particularly if an impatient PHB is breathing down your neck, and other users are just waiting to pounce on that space the minute you free it up.
Then there are the programmers who can't write anything that doesn't waste gobs of disk space and RAM.
Someone notices when their code makes excessive use of the CPU, but a few megabytes of hard drive space flys under the radar.
Some really think it isn't worth even a few minutes of their time to fix things like that, not when they're under the gun themselves to bang out more features as fast as possible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699266</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699266</id>
	<title>Lesson 1</title>
	<author>tverbeek</author>
	<datestamp>1262942160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The main thing that people that age need to learn (both professionally and personally) is that Their Actions Have Consequences.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The main thing that people that age need to learn ( both professionally and personally ) is that Their Actions Have Consequences .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The main thing that people that age need to learn (both professionally and personally) is that Their Actions Have Consequences.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30705384</id>
	<title>Lesson 2</title>
	<author>CAIMLAS</author>
	<datestamp>1263067620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lesson 2 is that it doesn't matter what your actions are, if someone doesn't like you and they've got power over your position, you're fucked.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lesson 2 is that it does n't matter what your actions are , if someone does n't like you and they 've got power over your position , you 're fucked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lesson 2 is that it doesn't matter what your actions are, if someone doesn't like you and they've got power over your position, you're fucked.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699266</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699532</id>
	<title>Open Source Lab? Big Deal!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262943180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not like it's the Accounting department or HR. I have my own open source lab in my home.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not like it 's the Accounting department or HR .
I have my own open source lab in my home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not like it's the Accounting department or HR.
I have my own open source lab in my home.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699256</id>
	<title>Question for Lance...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262942160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey, wondering if you liked it when I gave you the bone hard and fast last night. I was the one in the sombrero...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , wondering if you liked it when I gave you the bone hard and fast last night .
I was the one in the sombrero.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, wondering if you liked it when I gave you the bone hard and fast last night.
I was the one in the sombrero...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30700712</id>
	<title>Re:Amazing.</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1262948280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>A lot of lab administration seems to be finding problems before they become a real problem, which is time consuming.</p></div></blockquote><p>Its also practically impossible for someone with no experience, which is why you don't let 'young'ns' do it.</p><p>CS students are not SA students.  You don't let a dentist perform open heart surgery, but of course most of them, unlike CS students, know better than to try it.  I guess dentists are better educated or less arrogant than CS students.</p><p>You want to let them manage a pseudo lab for training purposes fine.  You don't however, if you have even half of half of a cluepon, let them manage a real network (or lab) that people need to use.</p><p>You don't put your newbie admin hire at the company straight on the production servers doing massive system changes even with years of experience, why the hell would you let some college kid with no experience, no history on the subject, no knowledge of the subject, and absolutely no idea how much something that seems like a trivial unimportant change can wreak havoc.</p><p>Admins of 20 years often have this problem as well, and most of them know better.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A lot of lab administration seems to be finding problems before they become a real problem , which is time consuming.Its also practically impossible for someone with no experience , which is why you do n't let 'young'ns ' do it.CS students are not SA students .
You do n't let a dentist perform open heart surgery , but of course most of them , unlike CS students , know better than to try it .
I guess dentists are better educated or less arrogant than CS students.You want to let them manage a pseudo lab for training purposes fine .
You do n't however , if you have even half of half of a cluepon , let them manage a real network ( or lab ) that people need to use.You do n't put your newbie admin hire at the company straight on the production servers doing massive system changes even with years of experience , why the hell would you let some college kid with no experience , no history on the subject , no knowledge of the subject , and absolutely no idea how much something that seems like a trivial unimportant change can wreak havoc.Admins of 20 years often have this problem as well , and most of them know better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lot of lab administration seems to be finding problems before they become a real problem, which is time consuming.Its also practically impossible for someone with no experience, which is why you don't let 'young'ns' do it.CS students are not SA students.
You don't let a dentist perform open heart surgery, but of course most of them, unlike CS students, know better than to try it.
I guess dentists are better educated or less arrogant than CS students.You want to let them manage a pseudo lab for training purposes fine.
You don't however, if you have even half of half of a cluepon, let them manage a real network (or lab) that people need to use.You don't put your newbie admin hire at the company straight on the production servers doing massive system changes even with years of experience, why the hell would you let some college kid with no experience, no history on the subject, no knowledge of the subject, and absolutely no idea how much something that seems like a trivial unimportant change can wreak havoc.Admins of 20 years often have this problem as well, and most of them know better.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699284</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699196</id>
	<title>Serious question.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262941860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why do a lot of open source project names sound so gay?  GIMP, Drupal, Cfengine, Puppet, etc.  This is not a troll.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do a lot of open source project names sound so gay ?
GIMP , Drupal , Cfengine , Puppet , etc .
This is not a troll .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do a lot of open source project names sound so gay?
GIMP, Drupal, Cfengine, Puppet, etc.
This is not a troll.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699346</id>
	<title>Was that a short article or what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262942460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I actually broke down and RTFA. The interviewer must have been in the next stall over or on an elevator with the Oregon State employee. How many questions was that, like 4 or 5? Maybe one of the servers was getting ready to crash because one of the student admins was trying to install Windows...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I actually broke down and RTFA .
The interviewer must have been in the next stall over or on an elevator with the Oregon State employee .
How many questions was that , like 4 or 5 ?
Maybe one of the servers was getting ready to crash because one of the student admins was trying to install Windows.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I actually broke down and RTFA.
The interviewer must have been in the next stall over or on an elevator with the Oregon State employee.
How many questions was that, like 4 or 5?
Maybe one of the servers was getting ready to crash because one of the student admins was trying to install Windows...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30700540</id>
	<title>Re:single point of failure?</title>
	<author>riverat1</author>
	<datestamp>1262947500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know if there's any relation but Linus Torvalds lives in the Portland area, about 60 miles north of the OSU campus.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know if there 's any relation but Linus Torvalds lives in the Portland area , about 60 miles north of the OSU campus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know if there's any relation but Linus Torvalds lives in the Portland area, about 60 miles north of the OSU campus.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699492</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699566</id>
	<title>Re:Serious question.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262943300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The lack of a marketing and sales division, or indeed the need to have a "marketable" name at all. Plus a geeky need to overexplain with acronyms, backronyms, puns on other software (more | less anyone?) or other obscure references. And, but to a much lesser degree, no desire to fight other projects and particularly companies with lawyers over trademark disputes. Usually if it's a cool name it's already used, like for example Phoenix which became Firebird which eventually ended up as Firefox. If you don't care, call it Ekiga and noone will fight you over it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The lack of a marketing and sales division , or indeed the need to have a " marketable " name at all .
Plus a geeky need to overexplain with acronyms , backronyms , puns on other software ( more | less anyone ?
) or other obscure references .
And , but to a much lesser degree , no desire to fight other projects and particularly companies with lawyers over trademark disputes .
Usually if it 's a cool name it 's already used , like for example Phoenix which became Firebird which eventually ended up as Firefox .
If you do n't care , call it Ekiga and noone will fight you over it ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The lack of a marketing and sales division, or indeed the need to have a "marketable" name at all.
Plus a geeky need to overexplain with acronyms, backronyms, puns on other software (more | less anyone?
) or other obscure references.
And, but to a much lesser degree, no desire to fight other projects and particularly companies with lawyers over trademark disputes.
Usually if it's a cool name it's already used, like for example Phoenix which became Firebird which eventually ended up as Firefox.
If you don't care, call it Ekiga and noone will fight you over it ;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699134</id>
	<title>Props to them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262941560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a 19 year old Computer Science major, I give major props to those kids for not crashing the server once a day.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a 19 year old Computer Science major , I give major props to those kids for not crashing the server once a day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a 19 year old Computer Science major, I give major props to those kids for not crashing the server once a day.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699542</id>
	<title>Re:Amazing.</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1262943240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>is managing a server, even an important one, really that hard - when you have someone to go to when you have questions?</p></div><p>Thats exactly the position I'm in, and its the easiest part of the job I hold. If you know HOW to do things, the only thing left as part of the job is knowing WHAT to do.</p><p>When an issue comes up, its just "Hey, this is whats going on. Whats the best course of action? We could..."</p><p>And then he'll respond with "Yes, that sounds good" or "No, do this instead"</p><p>And Bam, its a cakewalk.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>is managing a server , even an important one , really that hard - when you have someone to go to when you have questions ? Thats exactly the position I 'm in , and its the easiest part of the job I hold .
If you know HOW to do things , the only thing left as part of the job is knowing WHAT to do.When an issue comes up , its just " Hey , this is whats going on .
Whats the best course of action ?
We could... " And then he 'll respond with " Yes , that sounds good " or " No , do this instead " And Bam , its a cakewalk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>is managing a server, even an important one, really that hard - when you have someone to go to when you have questions?Thats exactly the position I'm in, and its the easiest part of the job I hold.
If you know HOW to do things, the only thing left as part of the job is knowing WHAT to do.When an issue comes up, its just "Hey, this is whats going on.
Whats the best course of action?
We could..."And then he'll respond with "Yes, that sounds good" or "No, do this instead"And Bam, its a cakewalk.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699284</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30700488</id>
	<title>How do you find a young sys admin??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262947260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are there people out of college who want to be sys admins? We are tying to hire a sys admin, but we either get people who are overqualified -- they would not want to do the job for a long time -- or we get people who are under-qualified -- front desk support types you cannot design and manage a whole network.</p><p>On top of that, new grads don't usually have a lot of real world knowledge for sys admin work, though we would definitely relax this requirement for someone who is a problem solver and eager to do the job. (We haven't found this person yet, though)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are there people out of college who want to be sys admins ?
We are tying to hire a sys admin , but we either get people who are overqualified -- they would not want to do the job for a long time -- or we get people who are under-qualified -- front desk support types you can not design and manage a whole network.On top of that , new grads do n't usually have a lot of real world knowledge for sys admin work , though we would definitely relax this requirement for someone who is a problem solver and eager to do the job .
( We have n't found this person yet , though )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are there people out of college who want to be sys admins?
We are tying to hire a sys admin, but we either get people who are overqualified -- they would not want to do the job for a long time -- or we get people who are under-qualified -- front desk support types you cannot design and manage a whole network.On top of that, new grads don't usually have a lot of real world knowledge for sys admin work, though we would definitely relax this requirement for someone who is a problem solver and eager to do the job.
(We haven't found this person yet, though)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30700604</id>
	<title>Re:single point of failure?</title>
	<author>MostAwesomeDude</author>
	<datestamp>1262947800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We're a rather bright spot on the university's record; we are the largest open-source datacenter in the hemisphere, and that causes a lot of donations to come in. Take it from Ed: <a href="http://osuosl.org/sites/osuosl.org/files/ed\_ray.png" title="osuosl.org">http://osuosl.org/sites/osuosl.org/files/ed\_ray.png</a> [osuosl.org] Nobody will shut us down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're a rather bright spot on the university 's record ; we are the largest open-source datacenter in the hemisphere , and that causes a lot of donations to come in .
Take it from Ed : http : //osuosl.org/sites/osuosl.org/files/ed \ _ray.png [ osuosl.org ] Nobody will shut us down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're a rather bright spot on the university's record; we are the largest open-source datacenter in the hemisphere, and that causes a lot of donations to come in.
Take it from Ed: http://osuosl.org/sites/osuosl.org/files/ed\_ray.png [osuosl.org] Nobody will shut us down.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699492</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30701276</id>
	<title>Re:That's what you do in a university...</title>
	<author>freedomlinux</author>
	<datestamp>1262950800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not at all. I am an IT student at RPI and they specifically prohibit hiring current students for the DotCIO. Students work in the software and hardware helpdesks, but never on the network. <br> <br>This makes sense because those networks include sensitive data, security networks, and building access authentication. It seems like a good way to cut costs, but it is a potential security risk.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not at all .
I am an IT student at RPI and they specifically prohibit hiring current students for the DotCIO .
Students work in the software and hardware helpdesks , but never on the network .
This makes sense because those networks include sensitive data , security networks , and building access authentication .
It seems like a good way to cut costs , but it is a potential security risk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not at all.
I am an IT student at RPI and they specifically prohibit hiring current students for the DotCIO.
Students work in the software and hardware helpdesks, but never on the network.
This makes sense because those networks include sensitive data, security networks, and building access authentication.
It seems like a good way to cut costs, but it is a potential security risk.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699994</id>
	<title>Could These Sys Admins Be</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262944980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>outsourced with several shell scripts?</p><p>Yours In Ashgabat,<br>Kilgore Trout</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>outsourced with several shell scripts ? Yours In Ashgabat,Kilgore Trout</tokentext>
<sentencetext>outsourced with several shell scripts?Yours In Ashgabat,Kilgore Trout</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699330</id>
	<title>Nope</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262942400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The members of the CS department at my college actually petitioned to have me take over as their lab admin. The incumbent staff admin was notorious for breaking things and making it a chore to use the systems. Despite the complaints against him and requests specifically to hire me on, the department chair kept the incumbent.</p><p>I found it all very amusing, especially since I'm not a CS student. I'm just well-known enough to the group. I'm also greatly amused by how often I get asked for help when I'm around there, specifically one case where a student was in a 390-something class. I replied, "We really don't know each other at all, and I'm not a CS student. What made you think I am a good person to ask?" He said he'd just seen me help with enough other people's problems... and so I gave him a hand too.</p><p>Long-windedness aside, my university only uses students to provide, "Cean the viruses off your personal computer," services.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The members of the CS department at my college actually petitioned to have me take over as their lab admin .
The incumbent staff admin was notorious for breaking things and making it a chore to use the systems .
Despite the complaints against him and requests specifically to hire me on , the department chair kept the incumbent.I found it all very amusing , especially since I 'm not a CS student .
I 'm just well-known enough to the group .
I 'm also greatly amused by how often I get asked for help when I 'm around there , specifically one case where a student was in a 390-something class .
I replied , " We really do n't know each other at all , and I 'm not a CS student .
What made you think I am a good person to ask ?
" He said he 'd just seen me help with enough other people 's problems... and so I gave him a hand too.Long-windedness aside , my university only uses students to provide , " Cean the viruses off your personal computer , " services .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The members of the CS department at my college actually petitioned to have me take over as their lab admin.
The incumbent staff admin was notorious for breaking things and making it a chore to use the systems.
Despite the complaints against him and requests specifically to hire me on, the department chair kept the incumbent.I found it all very amusing, especially since I'm not a CS student.
I'm just well-known enough to the group.
I'm also greatly amused by how often I get asked for help when I'm around there, specifically one case where a student was in a 390-something class.
I replied, "We really don't know each other at all, and I'm not a CS student.
What made you think I am a good person to ask?
" He said he'd just seen me help with enough other people's problems... and so I gave him a hand too.Long-windedness aside, my university only uses students to provide, "Cean the viruses off your personal computer," services.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699254</id>
	<title>Re:Serious question.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262942160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because open source is gay?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because open source is gay ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because open source is gay?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30702974</id>
	<title>Re:Could These Sys Admins Be</title>
	<author>Jean-Luc Picard</author>
	<datestamp>1262959500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not unless you have a shell script to make coffee</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not unless you have a shell script to make coffee</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not unless you have a shell script to make coffee</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699994</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699156</id>
	<title>That's what you do in a university...</title>
	<author>happy\_place</author>
	<datestamp>1262941680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Um... Don't all universities use students as sysadmins? I know this was nothing special at Utah state university. There were dozens of networks for varying departments and projects, and all of them administered at least at some level by university students.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Um... Do n't all universities use students as sysadmins ?
I know this was nothing special at Utah state university .
There were dozens of networks for varying departments and projects , and all of them administered at least at some level by university students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um... Don't all universities use students as sysadmins?
I know this was nothing special at Utah state university.
There were dozens of networks for varying departments and projects, and all of them administered at least at some level by university students.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30700276</id>
	<title>Heh, they aren't admins</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1262946180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, there is no such thing as an 18-21 year old sys admin.</p><p>There are plenty of kids pretending to be admins that are 18-21 years old, but just because someone gives you root, doesn't make you an admin anymore than installing mysql and creating a table makes you a DBA.</p><p>Having root on a Linux box doesn't make you an admin, regardless of how ignorant you are of that fact.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , there is no such thing as an 18-21 year old sys admin.There are plenty of kids pretending to be admins that are 18-21 years old , but just because someone gives you root , does n't make you an admin anymore than installing mysql and creating a table makes you a DBA.Having root on a Linux box does n't make you an admin , regardless of how ignorant you are of that fact .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, there is no such thing as an 18-21 year old sys admin.There are plenty of kids pretending to be admins that are 18-21 years old, but just because someone gives you root, doesn't make you an admin anymore than installing mysql and creating a table makes you a DBA.Having root on a Linux box doesn't make you an admin, regardless of how ignorant you are of that fact.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30705322</id>
	<title>We would outsource to India but...</title>
	<author>NateTech</author>
	<datestamp>1262980620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... these undergrads work cheap!  And we only have to zap them once with the tazer to get them to stop doing "rm -rf<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/".</p><p>What's the point of this article? That young sysadmins can now be exploited by their school instead of their first employer?</p><p>Oh, and what exactly are they training them so well for anyway? Their first job, they'll learn that there's never time nor budget allowed for doing things like setting up Puppet.  They want to do that, they can cram it in during lunch and after-hours, and hope they don't get fired if they get it wrong, and zero praise (or even comprehension) if they get it right.</p><p>The school's doing them a disservice.  Throw them a pile of broken five year old servers, a "datacenter" diagram that looks mysteriously like their dorm closet, and a $10 Starbucks card with a little card that says, "Thank you so much for contributing to my mansion... ahem, er... our company mission this year... without a raise... ahem, without pay since you're an intern... and Happy Holidays from the CEO!"  That'll do more to prepare them for the work world than managing big projects like... ooh, mirrors.  (Bestill my beating heart.  Mirrors!  How high tech!)</p><p>LOL!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... these undergrads work cheap !
And we only have to zap them once with the tazer to get them to stop doing " rm -rf / " .What 's the point of this article ?
That young sysadmins can now be exploited by their school instead of their first employer ? Oh , and what exactly are they training them so well for anyway ?
Their first job , they 'll learn that there 's never time nor budget allowed for doing things like setting up Puppet .
They want to do that , they can cram it in during lunch and after-hours , and hope they do n't get fired if they get it wrong , and zero praise ( or even comprehension ) if they get it right.The school 's doing them a disservice .
Throw them a pile of broken five year old servers , a " datacenter " diagram that looks mysteriously like their dorm closet , and a $ 10 Starbucks card with a little card that says , " Thank you so much for contributing to my mansion... ahem , er... our company mission this year... without a raise... ahem , without pay since you 're an intern... and Happy Holidays from the CEO !
" That 'll do more to prepare them for the work world than managing big projects like... ooh , mirrors .
( Bestill my beating heart .
Mirrors ! How high tech !
) LOL !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... these undergrads work cheap!
And we only have to zap them once with the tazer to get them to stop doing "rm -rf /".What's the point of this article?
That young sysadmins can now be exploited by their school instead of their first employer?Oh, and what exactly are they training them so well for anyway?
Their first job, they'll learn that there's never time nor budget allowed for doing things like setting up Puppet.
They want to do that, they can cram it in during lunch and after-hours, and hope they don't get fired if they get it wrong, and zero praise (or even comprehension) if they get it right.The school's doing them a disservice.
Throw them a pile of broken five year old servers, a "datacenter" diagram that looks mysteriously like their dorm closet, and a $10 Starbucks card with a little card that says, "Thank you so much for contributing to my mansion... ahem, er... our company mission this year... without a raise... ahem, without pay since you're an intern... and Happy Holidays from the CEO!
"  That'll do more to prepare them for the work world than managing big projects like... ooh, mirrors.
(Bestill my beating heart.
Mirrors!  How high tech!
)LOL!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699218</id>
	<title>I guess they're adminning the site for TFA.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262941980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I clicked on it, all I got was a black screen.</p><p>Or, they're a bunch of Goth admins and are really into the whole black on black thing.</p><p>NIN rocks!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I clicked on it , all I got was a black screen.Or , they 're a bunch of Goth admins and are really into the whole black on black thing.NIN rocks !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I clicked on it, all I got was a black screen.Or, they're a bunch of Goth admins and are really into the whole black on black thing.NIN rocks!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699670</id>
	<title>Re:That's what you do in a university...</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1262943780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Um... Don't all universities use students as sysadmins?.</p></div><p>HA! No. The University around here only lets CS Graduates touch a server for about 2 weeks, after studying about it for a month. Everything is handled by its own CT&amp;IS Faculty. As someone who has multiple friends at the university, I will speak for the students to say the system they have set up BLOWS. They will, on occaison, hire they're GRADUATES to do some contract work.</p><p>Now, the Polytechnic that I went to, had us set up our own private networks, and administrate that. It was about as close to the real thing as I could get without actually being in the real mess, which was enough for me to learn the basics of what I needed to know. Looking back, it really depends on the class. Some kids were fresh out of highschool (like me) and played alot of Video games during class (not like me) so I would understand if they didn't want certain people administering the Web services of the campus.</p><p>There was ONE student, who managed to hack into the firewall and allow World of Warcraft to run on his computer. He got Straight A's for a year and then Expelled. I sometimes wonder if he was able to get a job, saying "Yeah I was expelled from school because I knew their network better than they did"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Um... Do n't all universities use students as sysadmins ? .HA !
No. The University around here only lets CS Graduates touch a server for about 2 weeks , after studying about it for a month .
Everything is handled by its own CT&amp;IS Faculty .
As someone who has multiple friends at the university , I will speak for the students to say the system they have set up BLOWS .
They will , on occaison , hire they 're GRADUATES to do some contract work.Now , the Polytechnic that I went to , had us set up our own private networks , and administrate that .
It was about as close to the real thing as I could get without actually being in the real mess , which was enough for me to learn the basics of what I needed to know .
Looking back , it really depends on the class .
Some kids were fresh out of highschool ( like me ) and played alot of Video games during class ( not like me ) so I would understand if they did n't want certain people administering the Web services of the campus.There was ONE student , who managed to hack into the firewall and allow World of Warcraft to run on his computer .
He got Straight A 's for a year and then Expelled .
I sometimes wonder if he was able to get a job , saying " Yeah I was expelled from school because I knew their network better than they did "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um... Don't all universities use students as sysadmins?.HA!
No. The University around here only lets CS Graduates touch a server for about 2 weeks, after studying about it for a month.
Everything is handled by its own CT&amp;IS Faculty.
As someone who has multiple friends at the university, I will speak for the students to say the system they have set up BLOWS.
They will, on occaison, hire they're GRADUATES to do some contract work.Now, the Polytechnic that I went to, had us set up our own private networks, and administrate that.
It was about as close to the real thing as I could get without actually being in the real mess, which was enough for me to learn the basics of what I needed to know.
Looking back, it really depends on the class.
Some kids were fresh out of highschool (like me) and played alot of Video games during class (not like me) so I would understand if they didn't want certain people administering the Web services of the campus.There was ONE student, who managed to hack into the firewall and allow World of Warcraft to run on his computer.
He got Straight A's for a year and then Expelled.
I sometimes wonder if he was able to get a job, saying "Yeah I was expelled from school because I knew their network better than they did"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30700732</id>
	<title>Re:Serious question.</title>
	<author>thatskinnyguy</author>
	<datestamp>1262948340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I heard from one of the higher-ups that Gnome projects' names are more like an inside joke. "How can we make some of the best software out there and give them the most aweful names?"</htmltext>
<tokenext>I heard from one of the higher-ups that Gnome projects ' names are more like an inside joke .
" How can we make some of the best software out there and give them the most aweful names ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I heard from one of the higher-ups that Gnome projects' names are more like an inside joke.
"How can we make some of the best software out there and give them the most aweful names?
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699196</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699364</id>
	<title>Good</title>
	<author>OrangeMonkey11</author>
	<datestamp>1262942520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Great that the university is giving these newbies a chance to get their feet wet before they venture into the real world.  This type of opportunity is what i fine lacking while I was going to school and I had to search this type of opportunity out for myself.</p><p>One of the biggest problem I find when you first enter into the IT field as a student is that there is a lack of on the job hands on training.  Students really need to be expose to hands on materials more to reinforce what they've learned in text books and labs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Great that the university is giving these newbies a chance to get their feet wet before they venture into the real world .
This type of opportunity is what i fine lacking while I was going to school and I had to search this type of opportunity out for myself.One of the biggest problem I find when you first enter into the IT field as a student is that there is a lack of on the job hands on training .
Students really need to be expose to hands on materials more to reinforce what they 've learned in text books and labs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great that the university is giving these newbies a chance to get their feet wet before they venture into the real world.
This type of opportunity is what i fine lacking while I was going to school and I had to search this type of opportunity out for myself.One of the biggest problem I find when you first enter into the IT field as a student is that there is a lack of on the job hands on training.
Students really need to be expose to hands on materials more to reinforce what they've learned in text books and labs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699844</id>
	<title>Re:Lesson 1</title>
	<author>Spit</author>
	<datestamp>1262944440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll agree, sysadmin is as much about process and discipline as it is tech knowhow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll agree , sysadmin is as much about process and discipline as it is tech knowhow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll agree, sysadmin is as much about process and discipline as it is tech knowhow.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699266</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699284</id>
	<title>Amazing.</title>
	<author>CannonballHead</author>
	<datestamp>1262942220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Young people with their heads on straight.  Definitely newsworthy.</p><p>I know the whole "you young'un, you can't manage a server to save your life!" feeling and all that, but really... is managing a server, even an important one, really that hard - when you have someone to go to when you have questions?  A lot of lab administration seems to be finding problems before they become a real problem, which is time consuming.</p><p>You may as well have a story about dental work done by *gasp* dental students and, lo and behold, they are actually doing a good job!  Shocking.  To think that young people could actually learn something.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>OTOH, it's interesting to read about the difficulties he brings up.  They're pretty<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... boring, IMO.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>It generally takes around six months for a student to feel comfortable with our environment.</p></div><p>Like most jobs?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Another challenge is the short turnaround with students, as we usually only have them for two to three years before they graduate. This creates a constant issue to ensure our documentation and training is honed.</p></div><p>Two to three years, that's not too short, is it?  And it's interesting that it's an "issue" to him to keep their documentation good/honed.  I hope the graduates are learning that documentation is a BIG ISSUE in real jobs, for exactly that purpose: if something happens to you, the business can't just stop for 3 months while someone else tries to figure out what you did<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Young people with their heads on straight .
Definitely newsworthy.I know the whole " you young'un , you ca n't manage a server to save your life !
" feeling and all that , but really... is managing a server , even an important one , really that hard - when you have someone to go to when you have questions ?
A lot of lab administration seems to be finding problems before they become a real problem , which is time consuming.You may as well have a story about dental work done by * gasp * dental students and , lo and behold , they are actually doing a good job !
Shocking. To think that young people could actually learn something .
: ) OTOH , it 's interesting to read about the difficulties he brings up .
They 're pretty ... boring , IMO.It generally takes around six months for a student to feel comfortable with our environment.Like most jobs ? Another challenge is the short turnaround with students , as we usually only have them for two to three years before they graduate .
This creates a constant issue to ensure our documentation and training is honed.Two to three years , that 's not too short , is it ?
And it 's interesting that it 's an " issue " to him to keep their documentation good/honed .
I hope the graduates are learning that documentation is a BIG ISSUE in real jobs , for exactly that purpose : if something happens to you , the business ca n't just stop for 3 months while someone else tries to figure out what you did : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Young people with their heads on straight.
Definitely newsworthy.I know the whole "you young'un, you can't manage a server to save your life!
" feeling and all that, but really... is managing a server, even an important one, really that hard - when you have someone to go to when you have questions?
A lot of lab administration seems to be finding problems before they become a real problem, which is time consuming.You may as well have a story about dental work done by *gasp* dental students and, lo and behold, they are actually doing a good job!
Shocking.  To think that young people could actually learn something.
:)OTOH, it's interesting to read about the difficulties he brings up.
They're pretty ... boring, IMO.It generally takes around six months for a student to feel comfortable with our environment.Like most jobs?Another challenge is the short turnaround with students, as we usually only have them for two to three years before they graduate.
This creates a constant issue to ensure our documentation and training is honed.Two to three years, that's not too short, is it?
And it's interesting that it's an "issue" to him to keep their documentation good/honed.
I hope the graduates are learning that documentation is a BIG ISSUE in real jobs, for exactly that purpose: if something happens to you, the business can't just stop for 3 months while someone else tries to figure out what you did :)
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699936</id>
	<title>I think I've been on the internet too long...</title>
	<author>tool462</author>
	<datestamp>1262944740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>18-21 year old undergrads</p></div><p>Pics?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>18-21 year old undergradsPics ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>18-21 year old undergradsPics?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30701552</id>
	<title>Re:Lesson 1</title>
	<author>russ1337</author>
	<datestamp>1262952240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've seen single seat fighter jocks in that age range....  age has little to do with it. Training and attitude have lots to do with it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've seen single seat fighter jocks in that age range.... age has little to do with it .
Training and attitude have lots to do with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've seen single seat fighter jocks in that age range....  age has little to do with it.
Training and attitude have lots to do with it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699266</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30702566</id>
	<title>Re:Nope</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1262956920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Despite the complaints against him and requests specifically to hire me on, the department chair kept the incumbent.</i></p><p>Well then maybe the department chair will think twice next time before he stores those photos of himself quicksorting that trollup on the department fileserver.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Despite the complaints against him and requests specifically to hire me on , the department chair kept the incumbent.Well then maybe the department chair will think twice next time before he stores those photos of himself quicksorting that trollup on the department fileserver .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Despite the complaints against him and requests specifically to hire me on, the department chair kept the incumbent.Well then maybe the department chair will think twice next time before he stores those photos of himself quicksorting that trollup on the department fileserver.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699468</id>
	<title>18-21</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262943000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am in the upper bounds of that range. I do Sysadmin stuff in our corporation, though not as much as the Chief IT Manager. I do the cabling, I set up the racks, I make sure the UPS are tested regularily. All the grunt work a Sysadmin would do. I help with decisions on new network policies, and dealing with security and updates. Network Topology is something I wish I had a say in, but don't. I will on occaison, be called in to reboot a server, or replace a bad drive.</p><p>I had to learn the Help-Ticket system on the job, but really that was like a 5 minute breeze because most of it is common sense. (Ticket comes in, prioritize, assign, do)</p><p>I'm glad to see that younger people are getting into these positions, since I think they help push forward newer technologies and methodologies. It'll sound like I'm tooting my own horn here (and Maybe I am just a little<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P) but we've got a dozen boxes in our server room plugged into the rack so that people from other branches across Canada can Remote in to access certain software. It's a nightmare to look at, and it takes up alot of space. The IT Manager isn't fully familiar with Virtualization, though thats something I was taught in school less than 2 years ago. I'm sure you can see where this is going.</p><p>All in all, the only thing holding back us young people from these positions is just experience. Almost any school you graduate from with a CS degree will teach you the fundamentals of system administration. However you can't exactly apply for that position with little to no experience (don't get me wrong, you CAN apply, but the guy who has 5+ years experience managing Windows Server 2003 is going to look a bit shinier).</p><p>It's good to have a Looong project like this to show you DO have experience. I went and switched from a CS Degree to simply an Object Oriented Programming because it was shorter and I enjoyed programming more, but now that I'm out here working I wish I had that education. (I know right, how did I land a Sysadmin/Technician job as an OOP grad? Funny story, ask me later). Anyways,  If I could show my boss "Here's the webserver that I set up and maintained" I think he'd be more lenient with letting me handle things I know how to handle. It's frustrating when he mentions a problem and you know a solution but he won't admit its a good idea because you're fresh. That's more a problem with my boss though, and probably isn't a good representation of every manager out there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am in the upper bounds of that range .
I do Sysadmin stuff in our corporation , though not as much as the Chief IT Manager .
I do the cabling , I set up the racks , I make sure the UPS are tested regularily .
All the grunt work a Sysadmin would do .
I help with decisions on new network policies , and dealing with security and updates .
Network Topology is something I wish I had a say in , but do n't .
I will on occaison , be called in to reboot a server , or replace a bad drive.I had to learn the Help-Ticket system on the job , but really that was like a 5 minute breeze because most of it is common sense .
( Ticket comes in , prioritize , assign , do ) I 'm glad to see that younger people are getting into these positions , since I think they help push forward newer technologies and methodologies .
It 'll sound like I 'm tooting my own horn here ( and Maybe I am just a little : P ) but we 've got a dozen boxes in our server room plugged into the rack so that people from other branches across Canada can Remote in to access certain software .
It 's a nightmare to look at , and it takes up alot of space .
The IT Manager is n't fully familiar with Virtualization , though thats something I was taught in school less than 2 years ago .
I 'm sure you can see where this is going.All in all , the only thing holding back us young people from these positions is just experience .
Almost any school you graduate from with a CS degree will teach you the fundamentals of system administration .
However you ca n't exactly apply for that position with little to no experience ( do n't get me wrong , you CAN apply , but the guy who has 5 + years experience managing Windows Server 2003 is going to look a bit shinier ) .It 's good to have a Looong project like this to show you DO have experience .
I went and switched from a CS Degree to simply an Object Oriented Programming because it was shorter and I enjoyed programming more , but now that I 'm out here working I wish I had that education .
( I know right , how did I land a Sysadmin/Technician job as an OOP grad ?
Funny story , ask me later ) .
Anyways , If I could show my boss " Here 's the webserver that I set up and maintained " I think he 'd be more lenient with letting me handle things I know how to handle .
It 's frustrating when he mentions a problem and you know a solution but he wo n't admit its a good idea because you 're fresh .
That 's more a problem with my boss though , and probably is n't a good representation of every manager out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am in the upper bounds of that range.
I do Sysadmin stuff in our corporation, though not as much as the Chief IT Manager.
I do the cabling, I set up the racks, I make sure the UPS are tested regularily.
All the grunt work a Sysadmin would do.
I help with decisions on new network policies, and dealing with security and updates.
Network Topology is something I wish I had a say in, but don't.
I will on occaison, be called in to reboot a server, or replace a bad drive.I had to learn the Help-Ticket system on the job, but really that was like a 5 minute breeze because most of it is common sense.
(Ticket comes in, prioritize, assign, do)I'm glad to see that younger people are getting into these positions, since I think they help push forward newer technologies and methodologies.
It'll sound like I'm tooting my own horn here (and Maybe I am just a little :P) but we've got a dozen boxes in our server room plugged into the rack so that people from other branches across Canada can Remote in to access certain software.
It's a nightmare to look at, and it takes up alot of space.
The IT Manager isn't fully familiar with Virtualization, though thats something I was taught in school less than 2 years ago.
I'm sure you can see where this is going.All in all, the only thing holding back us young people from these positions is just experience.
Almost any school you graduate from with a CS degree will teach you the fundamentals of system administration.
However you can't exactly apply for that position with little to no experience (don't get me wrong, you CAN apply, but the guy who has 5+ years experience managing Windows Server 2003 is going to look a bit shinier).It's good to have a Looong project like this to show you DO have experience.
I went and switched from a CS Degree to simply an Object Oriented Programming because it was shorter and I enjoyed programming more, but now that I'm out here working I wish I had that education.
(I know right, how did I land a Sysadmin/Technician job as an OOP grad?
Funny story, ask me later).
Anyways,  If I could show my boss "Here's the webserver that I set up and maintained" I think he'd be more lenient with letting me handle things I know how to handle.
It's frustrating when he mentions a problem and you know a solution but he won't admit its a good idea because you're fresh.
That's more a problem with my boss though, and probably isn't a good representation of every manager out there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30703070</id>
	<title>Re:That's what you do in a university...</title>
	<author>querent23</author>
	<datestamp>1262960040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was IT for a while at CU Boulder, and they didn't use students there.

I'm actually a grad student at OSU now, and just alerted the local Linux Users Group to this article.  Maybe they'll chime in.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was IT for a while at CU Boulder , and they did n't use students there .
I 'm actually a grad student at OSU now , and just alerted the local Linux Users Group to this article .
Maybe they 'll chime in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was IT for a while at CU Boulder, and they didn't use students there.
I'm actually a grad student at OSU now, and just alerted the local Linux Users Group to this article.
Maybe they'll chime in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699584</id>
	<title>Re:Lesson 1</title>
	<author>NevarMore</author>
	<datestamp>1262943420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mean like reading and posting to slashdot in the middle of the workday?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean like reading and posting to slashdot in the middle of the workday ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean like reading and posting to slashdot in the middle of the workday?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699266</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30704400</id>
	<title>Yawn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262970600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OSU's CS department has been using undergrad sysadmins for years, including research type projects.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OSU 's CS department has been using undergrad sysadmins for years , including research type projects .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OSU's CS department has been using undergrad sysadmins for years, including research type projects.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30699420</id>
	<title>Fp faIgorz</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262942760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">troubles 07 those</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>troubles 07 those [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>troubles 07 those [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment10_01_08_1734234.30701346</id>
	<title>Personal experience in all-student department</title>
	<author>ZPWeeks</author>
	<datestamp>1262951100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm in my fourth year working and studying at the Colorado State University College of Business. Student-facing systems are pretty much 100\% run by students, who report to student managers, who report to the IT Director and a student committee representing students who pay the tech fees. It's worked remarkably well, and I've been in several roles throughout my tenure- Lab Technician, network engineer, sysadmin, security team lead, web developer.</p><p>In terms of the department's effectiveness, I would say that students receive a great value and enthusiastic service from their colleagues. The risk of system failure is pretty low since we have decent turnover and a hierarchy of newbie and more experienced staff. (It also helps having a good balance of student employees in the technical disciplines and the business administration major.) Everybody starts out with very little experience, and gets direct access to systems they wouldn't otherwise be trusted with. We put heavy emphasis on documentation and formal training requirements, but a lot of stuff is "throwing us in the lake and learning how to swim." I was 18 when I got the security team lead position, and later that week a horrible false positive in $vendor's antivirus definitions rendered every workstation in the college useless. The real-world experience of emergency response and dealing with managing a team and staying accountable to others taught me so much.</p><p>I value this kind of opportunity as something much more valuable than an internship, some entry-level jobs, or even my degree program. The job's flexibility with my school schedule and direct pertinence to my studies added several dollars worth  of value to the decent student hourly rate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm in my fourth year working and studying at the Colorado State University College of Business .
Student-facing systems are pretty much 100 \ % run by students , who report to student managers , who report to the IT Director and a student committee representing students who pay the tech fees .
It 's worked remarkably well , and I 've been in several roles throughout my tenure- Lab Technician , network engineer , sysadmin , security team lead , web developer.In terms of the department 's effectiveness , I would say that students receive a great value and enthusiastic service from their colleagues .
The risk of system failure is pretty low since we have decent turnover and a hierarchy of newbie and more experienced staff .
( It also helps having a good balance of student employees in the technical disciplines and the business administration major .
) Everybody starts out with very little experience , and gets direct access to systems they would n't otherwise be trusted with .
We put heavy emphasis on documentation and formal training requirements , but a lot of stuff is " throwing us in the lake and learning how to swim .
" I was 18 when I got the security team lead position , and later that week a horrible false positive in $ vendor 's antivirus definitions rendered every workstation in the college useless .
The real-world experience of emergency response and dealing with managing a team and staying accountable to others taught me so much.I value this kind of opportunity as something much more valuable than an internship , some entry-level jobs , or even my degree program .
The job 's flexibility with my school schedule and direct pertinence to my studies added several dollars worth of value to the decent student hourly rate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm in my fourth year working and studying at the Colorado State University College of Business.
Student-facing systems are pretty much 100\% run by students, who report to student managers, who report to the IT Director and a student committee representing students who pay the tech fees.
It's worked remarkably well, and I've been in several roles throughout my tenure- Lab Technician, network engineer, sysadmin, security team lead, web developer.In terms of the department's effectiveness, I would say that students receive a great value and enthusiastic service from their colleagues.
The risk of system failure is pretty low since we have decent turnover and a hierarchy of newbie and more experienced staff.
(It also helps having a good balance of student employees in the technical disciplines and the business administration major.
) Everybody starts out with very little experience, and gets direct access to systems they wouldn't otherwise be trusted with.
We put heavy emphasis on documentation and formal training requirements, but a lot of stuff is "throwing us in the lake and learning how to swim.
" I was 18 when I got the security team lead position, and later that week a horrible false positive in $vendor's antivirus definitions rendered every workstation in the college useless.
The real-world experience of emergency response and dealing with managing a team and staying accountable to others taught me so much.I value this kind of opportunity as something much more valuable than an internship, some entry-level jobs, or even my degree program.
The job's flexibility with my school schedule and direct pertinence to my studies added several dollars worth  of value to the decent student hourly rate.</sentencetext>
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	<title>single point of failure?</title>
	<author>SuperBanana</author>
	<datestamp>1262943060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>The Oregon State University Open Source Lab's data center hosts some of the Linux community's heaviest hitting projects including the Linux Master Kernel and the Linux Foundation. It is also the primary location for the Apache Software Foundation and Drupal, open source content management software. The lab, aka OSUOSL, also hosted the core infrastructure for Mozilla's Firefox project, and currently host's six of Google's servers. </i>

</p><p>Uh- why is one organization the primary/master site for so many high-profile, critical open source projects?

</p><p>This is bad for a number of political, economic, security, and technical reasons.  All it takes is one pissed off Dean or university president and you can be shut down overnight.  It's happened to some famous researchers; one morning they came in and found all their equipment locked up in storage, their papers confiscated, and students/researchers/staff axed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Oregon State University Open Source Lab 's data center hosts some of the Linux community 's heaviest hitting projects including the Linux Master Kernel and the Linux Foundation .
It is also the primary location for the Apache Software Foundation and Drupal , open source content management software .
The lab , aka OSUOSL , also hosted the core infrastructure for Mozilla 's Firefox project , and currently host 's six of Google 's servers .
Uh- why is one organization the primary/master site for so many high-profile , critical open source projects ?
This is bad for a number of political , economic , security , and technical reasons .
All it takes is one pissed off Dean or university president and you can be shut down overnight .
It 's happened to some famous researchers ; one morning they came in and found all their equipment locked up in storage , their papers confiscated , and students/researchers/staff axed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> The Oregon State University Open Source Lab's data center hosts some of the Linux community's heaviest hitting projects including the Linux Master Kernel and the Linux Foundation.
It is also the primary location for the Apache Software Foundation and Drupal, open source content management software.
The lab, aka OSUOSL, also hosted the core infrastructure for Mozilla's Firefox project, and currently host's six of Google's servers.
Uh- why is one organization the primary/master site for so many high-profile, critical open source projects?
This is bad for a number of political, economic, security, and technical reasons.
All it takes is one pissed off Dean or university president and you can be shut down overnight.
It's happened to some famous researchers; one morning they came in and found all their equipment locked up in storage, their papers confiscated, and students/researchers/staff axed.</sentencetext>
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