<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_29_0417230</id>
	<title>China's DIY Aviators Take Flight</title>
	<author>samzenpus</author>
	<datestamp>1262091240000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>ScuttleMonkey writes <i>"China&rsquo;s <a href="http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/12/china-diy-aviators/?utm\_source=feedburner&amp;utm\_medium=feed&amp;utm\_campaign=Feed\%3A+wired\%2Findex+(Wired\%3A+Index+3+(Top+Stories+2))">emerging aviator class is spreading its wings</a> with a plethora of approaches, from the ramshackle to the sophisticated to the potentially revolutionary. They&rsquo;re using everything imaginable, from old motorcycle engines to electric motors to even their own legs, like Mao Yiqing and his human-powered airplane. You could easily plot these adventurous innovators on a graph, with the X axis showing their skill and the Y axis their financial means."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>ScuttleMonkey writes " China    s emerging aviator class is spreading its wings with a plethora of approaches , from the ramshackle to the sophisticated to the potentially revolutionary .
They    re using everything imaginable , from old motorcycle engines to electric motors to even their own legs , like Mao Yiqing and his human-powered airplane .
You could easily plot these adventurous innovators on a graph , with the X axis showing their skill and the Y axis their financial means .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ScuttleMonkey writes "China’s emerging aviator class is spreading its wings with a plethora of approaches, from the ramshackle to the sophisticated to the potentially revolutionary.
They’re using everything imaginable, from old motorcycle engines to electric motors to even their own legs, like Mao Yiqing and his human-powered airplane.
You could easily plot these adventurous innovators on a graph, with the X axis showing their skill and the Y axis their financial means.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581668</id>
	<title>Cessna manufacturing in China</title>
	<author>yabos</author>
	<datestamp>1262099760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Cessna is now outsourcing manufacturing of the new SkyCatcher 162 to China.  I wonder how long until a lot of the design is copied by the Chinese into the homebuilt market.  We all know how they rapidly produce knockoff products of just about everything.  Cessna is reportedly saving about $77,000 USD by manufacturing in China yet the SkyCatcher still costs &gt;$100,000 USD to buy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cessna is now outsourcing manufacturing of the new SkyCatcher 162 to China .
I wonder how long until a lot of the design is copied by the Chinese into the homebuilt market .
We all know how they rapidly produce knockoff products of just about everything .
Cessna is reportedly saving about $ 77,000 USD by manufacturing in China yet the SkyCatcher still costs &gt; $ 100,000 USD to buy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cessna is now outsourcing manufacturing of the new SkyCatcher 162 to China.
I wonder how long until a lot of the design is copied by the Chinese into the homebuilt market.
We all know how they rapidly produce knockoff products of just about everything.
Cessna is reportedly saving about $77,000 USD by manufacturing in China yet the SkyCatcher still costs &gt;$100,000 USD to buy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581394</id>
	<title>Re:Gotta say it...</title>
	<author>clang\_jangle</author>
	<datestamp>1262097420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I mean, you're not writing the article yourself (except in some cases), surely doing a summary that isn't ridiculous isn't too much of a stretch.</p></div></blockquote><p> TFS is a direct quote from TFA. Maybe not the best, but TFA and the videos are actually pretty cool. With our own government becoming more and more oppressive we could probably learn a lot from the Chinese.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean , you 're not writing the article yourself ( except in some cases ) , surely doing a summary that is n't ridiculous is n't too much of a stretch .
TFS is a direct quote from TFA .
Maybe not the best , but TFA and the videos are actually pretty cool .
With our own government becoming more and more oppressive we could probably learn a lot from the Chinese .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I mean, you're not writing the article yourself (except in some cases), surely doing a summary that isn't ridiculous isn't too much of a stretch.
TFS is a direct quote from TFA.
Maybe not the best, but TFA and the videos are actually pretty cool.
With our own government becoming more and more oppressive we could probably learn a lot from the Chinese.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30582448</id>
	<title>Re:Escaping!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262104740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, I'm from Hungary and it's a story in my family that one of my relatives escaped to Austria using a powered hang glider during communism...not sure how true the story is, i heard it when I was a younger.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , I 'm from Hungary and it 's a story in my family that one of my relatives escaped to Austria using a powered hang glider during communism...not sure how true the story is , i heard it when I was a younger .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, I'm from Hungary and it's a story in my family that one of my relatives escaped to Austria using a powered hang glider during communism...not sure how true the story is, i heard it when I was a younger.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581440</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30585676</id>
	<title>If you have enough people...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262120340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It takes more than 4 Chinese to build an aircraft, because two Wongs don't make a Wright.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It takes more than 4 Chinese to build an aircraft , because two Wongs do n't make a Wright .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It takes more than 4 Chinese to build an aircraft, because two Wongs don't make a Wright.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581460</id>
	<title>What the west has missed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262098080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>When W was busy claiming that the west would move to an economy of IP, rather than actual manufacturing, he missed that the 2 work hand in hand. Basically, you need to be able to see how things are done to do the derivative work. Basically, America MUST bring back manufacturing to be able to grow again. America is becoming more and more like Russia; a has-been. Both because they have moved to depending on few incomes.<br> <br>
In the mean time, good luck to these ppl. Hopefully, one day, they will be free to actually enjoy their labor.</htmltext>
<tokenext>When W was busy claiming that the west would move to an economy of IP , rather than actual manufacturing , he missed that the 2 work hand in hand .
Basically , you need to be able to see how things are done to do the derivative work .
Basically , America MUST bring back manufacturing to be able to grow again .
America is becoming more and more like Russia ; a has-been .
Both because they have moved to depending on few incomes .
In the mean time , good luck to these ppl .
Hopefully , one day , they will be free to actually enjoy their labor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When W was busy claiming that the west would move to an economy of IP, rather than actual manufacturing, he missed that the 2 work hand in hand.
Basically, you need to be able to see how things are done to do the derivative work.
Basically, America MUST bring back manufacturing to be able to grow again.
America is becoming more and more like Russia; a has-been.
Both because they have moved to depending on few incomes.
In the mean time, good luck to these ppl.
Hopefully, one day, they will be free to actually enjoy their labor.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581900</id>
	<title>Easily plotted.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262101620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"You could easily plot these adventurous innovators on a graph, with the X axis showing their skill and the Y axis their financial means."
<br> <br>
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you "easily plot" any 2D set of related numbers on an XY graph?</htmltext>
<tokenext>" You could easily plot these adventurous innovators on a graph , with the X axis showing their skill and the Y axis their financial means .
" Correct me if I 'm wrong , but ca n't you " easily plot " any 2D set of related numbers on an XY graph ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You could easily plot these adventurous innovators on a graph, with the X axis showing their skill and the Y axis their financial means.
"
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you "easily plot" any 2D set of related numbers on an XY graph?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581804</id>
	<title>Re:And in the Z axis</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262100960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i'd think most of them were zero times born in air<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i 'd think most of them were zero times born in air : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i'd think most of them were zero times born in air :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581964</id>
	<title>Re:Escaping!</title>
	<author>Thelasko</author>
	<datestamp>1262101980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Some people will do just about ANYTHING to escape a communist dictatorship.</p></div><p>I don't know... that one guy did create a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's\_Republic" title="wikipedia.org"> <b>people</b> </a> [wikipedia.org] powered plane.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some people will do just about ANYTHING to escape a communist dictatorship.I do n't know... that one guy did create a people [ wikipedia.org ] powered plane .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some people will do just about ANYTHING to escape a communist dictatorship.I don't know... that one guy did create a  people  [wikipedia.org] powered plane.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581440</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30582340</id>
	<title>I'm confused</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262104260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"You could easily plot these adventurous innovators on a graph, with the X axis showing their skill and the Y axis their financial means."</p><p>Great, I could plot something.  WHAT THE FUCK WOULD IT MEAN?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" You could easily plot these adventurous innovators on a graph , with the X axis showing their skill and the Y axis their financial means .
" Great , I could plot something .
WHAT THE FUCK WOULD IT MEAN ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You could easily plot these adventurous innovators on a graph, with the X axis showing their skill and the Y axis their financial means.
"Great, I could plot something.
WHAT THE FUCK WOULD IT MEAN?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30587028</id>
	<title>Re:More than just China and aircraft</title>
	<author>King Coopa</author>
	<datestamp>1262083740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes!  This right here is the next step in the evolution of human ingenuity.  Fascinating specious, aren't we?
<br> <br>
All this time of worrying about outsourcing manufacturing to China, but soon we will be outsourcing to our own garages!  Though, as history shows we will use this capability to find wondrous new ways to kill each other.  Man the future freaks me out some times.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes !
This right here is the next step in the evolution of human ingenuity .
Fascinating specious , are n't we ?
All this time of worrying about outsourcing manufacturing to China , but soon we will be outsourcing to our own garages !
Though , as history shows we will use this capability to find wondrous new ways to kill each other .
Man the future freaks me out some times .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes!
This right here is the next step in the evolution of human ingenuity.
Fascinating specious, aren't we?
All this time of worrying about outsourcing manufacturing to China, but soon we will be outsourcing to our own garages!
Though, as history shows we will use this capability to find wondrous new ways to kill each other.
Man the future freaks me out some times.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30584208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581766</id>
	<title>Re:And in the Z axis</title>
	<author>BigSlowTarget</author>
	<datestamp>1262100600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, the depth of the impact crater</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , the depth of the impact crater</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, the depth of the impact crater</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581392</id>
	<title>Re:Gotta say it...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262097420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But the technical sophistication of the effort and the wealth of the experimenter certainly *are* related.</p><p>The idea of a amateur homebrew helicopter is truly frightening, but *anybody* can dream, especially if he doesn't realize how incompetent he really is.</p><p>The minimum successful example is the guy with the autogyro.  For that you need the kind of practical skills a farmer who maintained his own equipment would have.  The most sophisticated component he'd need is the rotor, which *could* be manufactured from glued wood.</p><p>The next step up is the human powered guy.  He needs a long carbon fiber boom as the main longitudinal structural component, and probably another one to carry the lift generated along the wings to the main boom.   That's pretty expensive.  Once he has that, then the drivetrain is bicycle technology.</p><p>The rest of the wings and pilot's nacelle are fairly sophisticated, but within the capability of a weekend tinkerer to construct.  The key is the sophisticated materials you can buy.  You make a basketwork out of lightweight wood and Kevlar tape, then heat shrink polyester sheeting on it to create a skin.   Weekend boatmakers have been constructing ultralight boats this way for *years*.  You can make a 17 foot canoe that weights under ten pounds this way, or a full sized rowboat that weights maybe fifteen pounds.</p><p>The guy who is working on a certifiable electric aircraft needs to have the most money.  He needs a real machinist and sophisticated fabrication techniques.   Batteries aren't really good enough for practical aviation yet, so for his demo he needs the best batteries and motor money can buy.</p><p>Each of these guys is designing the most practical aircraft possible within his financial means.  Give the homebrew helicopter guy a million dollars, and he'll *probably* end up killing himself, but it would no doubt be in a more impressive aircraft.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But the technical sophistication of the effort and the wealth of the experimenter certainly * are * related.The idea of a amateur homebrew helicopter is truly frightening , but * anybody * can dream , especially if he does n't realize how incompetent he really is.The minimum successful example is the guy with the autogyro .
For that you need the kind of practical skills a farmer who maintained his own equipment would have .
The most sophisticated component he 'd need is the rotor , which * could * be manufactured from glued wood.The next step up is the human powered guy .
He needs a long carbon fiber boom as the main longitudinal structural component , and probably another one to carry the lift generated along the wings to the main boom .
That 's pretty expensive .
Once he has that , then the drivetrain is bicycle technology.The rest of the wings and pilot 's nacelle are fairly sophisticated , but within the capability of a weekend tinkerer to construct .
The key is the sophisticated materials you can buy .
You make a basketwork out of lightweight wood and Kevlar tape , then heat shrink polyester sheeting on it to create a skin .
Weekend boatmakers have been constructing ultralight boats this way for * years * .
You can make a 17 foot canoe that weights under ten pounds this way , or a full sized rowboat that weights maybe fifteen pounds.The guy who is working on a certifiable electric aircraft needs to have the most money .
He needs a real machinist and sophisticated fabrication techniques .
Batteries are n't really good enough for practical aviation yet , so for his demo he needs the best batteries and motor money can buy.Each of these guys is designing the most practical aircraft possible within his financial means .
Give the homebrew helicopter guy a million dollars , and he 'll * probably * end up killing himself , but it would no doubt be in a more impressive aircraft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But the technical sophistication of the effort and the wealth of the experimenter certainly *are* related.The idea of a amateur homebrew helicopter is truly frightening, but *anybody* can dream, especially if he doesn't realize how incompetent he really is.The minimum successful example is the guy with the autogyro.
For that you need the kind of practical skills a farmer who maintained his own equipment would have.
The most sophisticated component he'd need is the rotor, which *could* be manufactured from glued wood.The next step up is the human powered guy.
He needs a long carbon fiber boom as the main longitudinal structural component, and probably another one to carry the lift generated along the wings to the main boom.
That's pretty expensive.
Once he has that, then the drivetrain is bicycle technology.The rest of the wings and pilot's nacelle are fairly sophisticated, but within the capability of a weekend tinkerer to construct.
The key is the sophisticated materials you can buy.
You make a basketwork out of lightweight wood and Kevlar tape, then heat shrink polyester sheeting on it to create a skin.
Weekend boatmakers have been constructing ultralight boats this way for *years*.
You can make a 17 foot canoe that weights under ten pounds this way, or a full sized rowboat that weights maybe fifteen pounds.The guy who is working on a certifiable electric aircraft needs to have the most money.
He needs a real machinist and sophisticated fabrication techniques.
Batteries aren't really good enough for practical aviation yet, so for his demo he needs the best batteries and motor money can buy.Each of these guys is designing the most practical aircraft possible within his financial means.
Give the homebrew helicopter guy a million dollars, and he'll *probably* end up killing himself, but it would no doubt be in a more impressive aircraft.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30585860</id>
	<title>Too bad we can't do something like that</title>
	<author>spectro</author>
	<datestamp>1262077920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have so much regulation in this country we just can't experiment with new kinds of airplanes or invent a new way of air travel. Imagine all the red tape you will have to go through just to put the damn plane together.</p><p>The FAA has frozen innovation in the airplane industry: we still base our airplane designs in the same basic principles invented 100 years ago because trying something new would require years of research and testing just to comply with their safety requirements.</p><p>I predict these chinese inventors will propel a new way of air travel while the US will be left way behind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have so much regulation in this country we just ca n't experiment with new kinds of airplanes or invent a new way of air travel .
Imagine all the red tape you will have to go through just to put the damn plane together.The FAA has frozen innovation in the airplane industry : we still base our airplane designs in the same basic principles invented 100 years ago because trying something new would require years of research and testing just to comply with their safety requirements.I predict these chinese inventors will propel a new way of air travel while the US will be left way behind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have so much regulation in this country we just can't experiment with new kinds of airplanes or invent a new way of air travel.
Imagine all the red tape you will have to go through just to put the damn plane together.The FAA has frozen innovation in the airplane industry: we still base our airplane designs in the same basic principles invented 100 years ago because trying something new would require years of research and testing just to comply with their safety requirements.I predict these chinese inventors will propel a new way of air travel while the US will be left way behind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581172</id>
	<title>Got nuthin</title>
	<author>paiute</author>
	<datestamp>1262095260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem with Chinese experimental homebuilt aircraft is, a half hour after you test fly it, you....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with Chinese experimental homebuilt aircraft is , a half hour after you test fly it , you... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with Chinese experimental homebuilt aircraft is, a half hour after you test fly it, you....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30583638</id>
	<title>Joy of flight</title>
	<author>Bobberly</author>
	<datestamp>1262110920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sadly most people never get to experience the joy of flight (flying buses don't count).  Homebuilt aircraft are less expensive but have a safety concern.  I applaud the Chinese for exploring other avenues.

I own one of the smallest general aviation aircraft you can get -- a Cessna 150.  My annual costs (insurance / hangar / annual inspection / maintanance) run $10,000 - $12,000.  Then add in fuel (6 gallons/hour * $3.80/gallon) and you get a real expensive hobby.  People love it when I take them flying. Despite the bad press (general aviation is NOT a threat to national security) it would take severe unemployment for me to ever give up flying any type of aircraft.

I can only imagine if the US imposes user fees what will happen to non-commericial flying.  You want to encourage people to use air traffic control for safetly.  Not avoid it to save a few $$$</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sadly most people never get to experience the joy of flight ( flying buses do n't count ) .
Homebuilt aircraft are less expensive but have a safety concern .
I applaud the Chinese for exploring other avenues .
I own one of the smallest general aviation aircraft you can get -- a Cessna 150 .
My annual costs ( insurance / hangar / annual inspection / maintanance ) run $ 10,000 - $ 12,000 .
Then add in fuel ( 6 gallons/hour * $ 3.80/gallon ) and you get a real expensive hobby .
People love it when I take them flying .
Despite the bad press ( general aviation is NOT a threat to national security ) it would take severe unemployment for me to ever give up flying any type of aircraft .
I can only imagine if the US imposes user fees what will happen to non-commericial flying .
You want to encourage people to use air traffic control for safetly .
Not avoid it to save a few $ $ $</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sadly most people never get to experience the joy of flight (flying buses don't count).
Homebuilt aircraft are less expensive but have a safety concern.
I applaud the Chinese for exploring other avenues.
I own one of the smallest general aviation aircraft you can get -- a Cessna 150.
My annual costs (insurance / hangar / annual inspection / maintanance) run $10,000 - $12,000.
Then add in fuel (6 gallons/hour * $3.80/gallon) and you get a real expensive hobby.
People love it when I take them flying.
Despite the bad press (general aviation is NOT a threat to national security) it would take severe unemployment for me to ever give up flying any type of aircraft.
I can only imagine if the US imposes user fees what will happen to non-commericial flying.
You want to encourage people to use air traffic control for safetly.
Not avoid it to save a few $$$</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30584062</id>
	<title>Re:Got nuthin</title>
	<author>Randseed</author>
	<datestamp>1262112900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The problem with Chinese experimental homebuilt aircraft is, a half hour after you test fly it, you....</p></div><p>...get shot down by the Chinese airforce and your family is billed for the cost of the missile.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with Chinese experimental homebuilt aircraft is , a half hour after you test fly it , you.......get shot down by the Chinese airforce and your family is billed for the cost of the missile .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with Chinese experimental homebuilt aircraft is, a half hour after you test fly it, you.......get shot down by the Chinese airforce and your family is billed for the cost of the missile.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581172</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581848</id>
	<title>Re:Gotta say it...</title>
	<author>LWATCDR</author>
	<datestamp>1262101200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually I suggest you pick up a copy of Homebuilt Aircraft at your local book store, got to EAA.org, and then make a trip to Sun n Fun or or Oshkosh,  Hundreds, maybe thousands of people have built their own helicopters around the world. Tens of thousands of homebuilt aircraft are flying in the US. Homebuilts in the US run the range from ultralights to jets. What is amazing is not that this is being done but that the Chinese government is allowing it.<br>BTW Burt Rutan the man that built SpaceShip One realy built his reputation selling plans for Homebuilt aricraft. His VariEze and LongEZ are to this day considered classics.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually I suggest you pick up a copy of Homebuilt Aircraft at your local book store , got to EAA.org , and then make a trip to Sun n Fun or or Oshkosh , Hundreds , maybe thousands of people have built their own helicopters around the world .
Tens of thousands of homebuilt aircraft are flying in the US .
Homebuilts in the US run the range from ultralights to jets .
What is amazing is not that this is being done but that the Chinese government is allowing it.BTW Burt Rutan the man that built SpaceShip One realy built his reputation selling plans for Homebuilt aricraft .
His VariEze and LongEZ are to this day considered classics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually I suggest you pick up a copy of Homebuilt Aircraft at your local book store, got to EAA.org, and then make a trip to Sun n Fun or or Oshkosh,  Hundreds, maybe thousands of people have built their own helicopters around the world.
Tens of thousands of homebuilt aircraft are flying in the US.
Homebuilts in the US run the range from ultralights to jets.
What is amazing is not that this is being done but that the Chinese government is allowing it.BTW Burt Rutan the man that built SpaceShip One realy built his reputation selling plans for Homebuilt aricraft.
His VariEze and LongEZ are to this day considered classics.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581392</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30582324</id>
	<title>Re:What the west has missed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262104140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Dude.  Nobody is missing anything.  W and the other people who run businesses -- on all ends of the political spectrum -- know very well that outsourcing manufacturing is a bad idea for the country as a whole, but it's a good idea for *them* personally because it increases their profit margin.  So they do it.  Everyone ELSE knows very well that outsourcing manufacturing is a bad idea for the country as a whole and for them personally, but they can't do anything about it because they're not running companies, and if they did, they'd be outcompeted by the companies that outsource manufacturing.<p>
I agree with your conclusion, that we're becoming a has-been, but I think your premises are entirely too charitable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dude .
Nobody is missing anything .
W and the other people who run businesses -- on all ends of the political spectrum -- know very well that outsourcing manufacturing is a bad idea for the country as a whole , but it 's a good idea for * them * personally because it increases their profit margin .
So they do it .
Everyone ELSE knows very well that outsourcing manufacturing is a bad idea for the country as a whole and for them personally , but they ca n't do anything about it because they 're not running companies , and if they did , they 'd be outcompeted by the companies that outsource manufacturing .
I agree with your conclusion , that we 're becoming a has-been , but I think your premises are entirely too charitable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dude.
Nobody is missing anything.
W and the other people who run businesses -- on all ends of the political spectrum -- know very well that outsourcing manufacturing is a bad idea for the country as a whole, but it's a good idea for *them* personally because it increases their profit margin.
So they do it.
Everyone ELSE knows very well that outsourcing manufacturing is a bad idea for the country as a whole and for them personally, but they can't do anything about it because they're not running companies, and if they did, they'd be outcompeted by the companies that outsource manufacturing.
I agree with your conclusion, that we're becoming a has-been, but I think your premises are entirely too charitable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30584208</id>
	<title>More than just China and aircraft</title>
	<author>EriktheGreen</author>
	<datestamp>1262113620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
A huge trend in the near future (0-20 years) will be home and distributed engineering (inventing) and manufacturing.  People will trade information on technologies, how-to information, plans, and parts to make sophisticated products in their home or workshop.
</p><p>
This is not to say we're all going to get replicators or nanotech manufacturing like in "The Diamond Age" but the level of sophistication of home built products is going to go way, way up.  From small appliances to tools to vehicles to weapons, it'll be possible to make a large number of items in places other than traditional factories, in small quantity and high quality.
</p><p>
To see this sort of thing emerging, look at efforts like Reprap to make a self replicating 3d prototyping machine (which probably won't be 100\% self replicating for a long time, but which is a great starting point for at-home applications of the technology) or home CNC machines like router tables and small CNC machine tools.  You can buy a CNC milling machine capable of producing small parts eg. for firearms and small engines for less than $3000 with computer.  Once these become widespread part libraries for them will be as available as clip-art.  Want a new part for your bicycle?  Download the pattern, place the raw material in the machine, and walk away.
</p><p>
As quality items become harder to find in mass produced outlets, items made at home will take their place.  Any item with a niche market will probably be made in these mini manufactoria... there won't be a profit any more in making small quantity items since there'll be tremendous competition from small manufacturers.
</p><p>
No need to keep an inventory of obscure auto parts on hand (or to pay for storage space or sunk costs in the inventory).  Just keep the pattern available and churn out parts as needed.  Need a part you don't have a pattern for?  Ask someone on the internet to measure their part and make a pattern from it, using the same CNC mill to automate the measurements.
</p><p>
I like the trend myself... but can you imagine the fit the government will throw when it figures out it can no longer regulate eg. firearms because anyone with a CNC mill can turn one out in a day or two?  I can see them at first trying to ban home manufacturing, trying to ban precursor items and materials, then trying to create an overarching government agency to police the whole thing.
</p><p>
It'll be similar to recording companies figuring out they're no longer needed since anyone can distribute or purchase music on-line without their involvement.
</p><p>
Likewise I can see large corporate manufacturers of some items begging for a government bail-out because no one wants to buy their mass produced crap any more.  Why pay $100 for a cheap wal-mart bike when the CNC machine shop in the next town can produce one with 3x the quality for the same price?  Why pay a computer store $35 for a plastic keyboard when you can get a solid brass one with better components made at home?
</p><p>
Erik
PS: For those of you that know what this means... we'll be able to evolve an STC pattern for common items<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A huge trend in the near future ( 0-20 years ) will be home and distributed engineering ( inventing ) and manufacturing .
People will trade information on technologies , how-to information , plans , and parts to make sophisticated products in their home or workshop .
This is not to say we 're all going to get replicators or nanotech manufacturing like in " The Diamond Age " but the level of sophistication of home built products is going to go way , way up .
From small appliances to tools to vehicles to weapons , it 'll be possible to make a large number of items in places other than traditional factories , in small quantity and high quality .
To see this sort of thing emerging , look at efforts like Reprap to make a self replicating 3d prototyping machine ( which probably wo n't be 100 \ % self replicating for a long time , but which is a great starting point for at-home applications of the technology ) or home CNC machines like router tables and small CNC machine tools .
You can buy a CNC milling machine capable of producing small parts eg .
for firearms and small engines for less than $ 3000 with computer .
Once these become widespread part libraries for them will be as available as clip-art .
Want a new part for your bicycle ?
Download the pattern , place the raw material in the machine , and walk away .
As quality items become harder to find in mass produced outlets , items made at home will take their place .
Any item with a niche market will probably be made in these mini manufactoria... there wo n't be a profit any more in making small quantity items since there 'll be tremendous competition from small manufacturers .
No need to keep an inventory of obscure auto parts on hand ( or to pay for storage space or sunk costs in the inventory ) .
Just keep the pattern available and churn out parts as needed .
Need a part you do n't have a pattern for ?
Ask someone on the internet to measure their part and make a pattern from it , using the same CNC mill to automate the measurements .
I like the trend myself... but can you imagine the fit the government will throw when it figures out it can no longer regulate eg .
firearms because anyone with a CNC mill can turn one out in a day or two ?
I can see them at first trying to ban home manufacturing , trying to ban precursor items and materials , then trying to create an overarching government agency to police the whole thing .
It 'll be similar to recording companies figuring out they 're no longer needed since anyone can distribute or purchase music on-line without their involvement .
Likewise I can see large corporate manufacturers of some items begging for a government bail-out because no one wants to buy their mass produced crap any more .
Why pay $ 100 for a cheap wal-mart bike when the CNC machine shop in the next town can produce one with 3x the quality for the same price ?
Why pay a computer store $ 35 for a plastic keyboard when you can get a solid brass one with better components made at home ?
Erik PS : For those of you that know what this means... we 'll be able to evolve an STC pattern for common items : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
A huge trend in the near future (0-20 years) will be home and distributed engineering (inventing) and manufacturing.
People will trade information on technologies, how-to information, plans, and parts to make sophisticated products in their home or workshop.
This is not to say we're all going to get replicators or nanotech manufacturing like in "The Diamond Age" but the level of sophistication of home built products is going to go way, way up.
From small appliances to tools to vehicles to weapons, it'll be possible to make a large number of items in places other than traditional factories, in small quantity and high quality.
To see this sort of thing emerging, look at efforts like Reprap to make a self replicating 3d prototyping machine (which probably won't be 100\% self replicating for a long time, but which is a great starting point for at-home applications of the technology) or home CNC machines like router tables and small CNC machine tools.
You can buy a CNC milling machine capable of producing small parts eg.
for firearms and small engines for less than $3000 with computer.
Once these become widespread part libraries for them will be as available as clip-art.
Want a new part for your bicycle?
Download the pattern, place the raw material in the machine, and walk away.
As quality items become harder to find in mass produced outlets, items made at home will take their place.
Any item with a niche market will probably be made in these mini manufactoria... there won't be a profit any more in making small quantity items since there'll be tremendous competition from small manufacturers.
No need to keep an inventory of obscure auto parts on hand (or to pay for storage space or sunk costs in the inventory).
Just keep the pattern available and churn out parts as needed.
Need a part you don't have a pattern for?
Ask someone on the internet to measure their part and make a pattern from it, using the same CNC mill to automate the measurements.
I like the trend myself... but can you imagine the fit the government will throw when it figures out it can no longer regulate eg.
firearms because anyone with a CNC mill can turn one out in a day or two?
I can see them at first trying to ban home manufacturing, trying to ban precursor items and materials, then trying to create an overarching government agency to police the whole thing.
It'll be similar to recording companies figuring out they're no longer needed since anyone can distribute or purchase music on-line without their involvement.
Likewise I can see large corporate manufacturers of some items begging for a government bail-out because no one wants to buy their mass produced crap any more.
Why pay $100 for a cheap wal-mart bike when the CNC machine shop in the next town can produce one with 3x the quality for the same price?
Why pay a computer store $35 for a plastic keyboard when you can get a solid brass one with better components made at home?
Erik
PS: For those of you that know what this means... we'll be able to evolve an STC pattern for common items :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30582528</id>
	<title>wait and see</title>
	<author>khallow</author>
	<datestamp>1262105220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wonder how long it'll be before some bureaucracy sees an opportunity to regulate them out of existence. Seems likely that do-it-yourself anything would be scary to the authorities unless you provide the appropriate bribes which demonstrate the safety of your activity.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder how long it 'll be before some bureaucracy sees an opportunity to regulate them out of existence .
Seems likely that do-it-yourself anything would be scary to the authorities unless you provide the appropriate bribes which demonstrate the safety of your activity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder how long it'll be before some bureaucracy sees an opportunity to regulate them out of existence.
Seems likely that do-it-yourself anything would be scary to the authorities unless you provide the appropriate bribes which demonstrate the safety of your activity.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581302</id>
	<title>And in the Z axis</title>
	<author>JamesP</author>
	<datestamp>1262096760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Time airborn I assume...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Time airborn I assume.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Time airborn I assume...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30584094</id>
	<title>Re:What the west has missed</title>
	<author>elkto</author>
	<datestamp>1262113020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>George W. was clearly wrong in what he said at that time.<br>
I agree with your statement about manufacturing, but Clinton's trade agreements destroyed any capability of the US to gain it back.<br>
<br>
The article takes me back to the mindset here in the US in the late 60's early 70's. Fun times!</htmltext>
<tokenext>George W. was clearly wrong in what he said at that time .
I agree with your statement about manufacturing , but Clinton 's trade agreements destroyed any capability of the US to gain it back .
The article takes me back to the mindset here in the US in the late 60 's early 70 's .
Fun times !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>George W. was clearly wrong in what he said at that time.
I agree with your statement about manufacturing, but Clinton's trade agreements destroyed any capability of the US to gain it back.
The article takes me back to the mindset here in the US in the late 60's early 70's.
Fun times!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581354</id>
	<title>Re:Gotta say it...</title>
	<author>digitig</author>
	<datestamp>1262097060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's a rheatorical question</p></div><p>A question about the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhea\_(mythology)" title="wikipedia.org">daughter of Uranus and Gaia</a> [wikipedia.org] to which you don't expect an answer? Or just about flightless birds?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's a rheatorical questionA question about the daughter of Uranus and Gaia [ wikipedia.org ] to which you do n't expect an answer ?
Or just about flightless birds ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's a rheatorical questionA question about the daughter of Uranus and Gaia [wikipedia.org] to which you don't expect an answer?
Or just about flightless birds?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30583568</id>
	<title>Re:Escaping!</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1262110620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>China isn't the only place with this kind of thing going on.  In the UK, for example, you don't need a certificate of airworthiness for very light aircraft and you can fly them with just a microlight license (which is comparatively cheap to get - you can do it in 25 hours).</htmltext>
<tokenext>China is n't the only place with this kind of thing going on .
In the UK , for example , you do n't need a certificate of airworthiness for very light aircraft and you can fly them with just a microlight license ( which is comparatively cheap to get - you can do it in 25 hours ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>China isn't the only place with this kind of thing going on.
In the UK, for example, you don't need a certificate of airworthiness for very light aircraft and you can fly them with just a microlight license (which is comparatively cheap to get - you can do it in 25 hours).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581440</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30584372</id>
	<title>Re:Gotta say it...</title>
	<author>element-o.p.</author>
	<datestamp>1262114460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The idea of a amateur homebrew helicopter is truly frightening...</p></div><p>
There are several flying examples in the U.S. of amateur-built helicopters.  Granted, most of them are built from professionally manufactured kits (i.e., the manufacturer builds a prefab kit, and the &quot;builder&quot; assembles the parts), some of which are relatively sophisticated.  Google Rotorway and Mini-500 (I think the Mini-500 is defunct now, but there were several built back in the '90s).</p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...but *anybody* can dream, especially if he doesn't realize how incompetent he really is.</p></div><p>
I would argue that often times, those who don't realize how incompetent they really are are, in fact, the ones who make the biggest advancements.  They don't know it's impossible before they try, therefore they are the ones who go ahead and do it anyway.  &quot;The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic was built by professionals.&quot;<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The next step up is the human powered guy. He needs a long carbon fiber boom as the main longitudinal structural component, and probably another one to carry the lift generated along the wings to the main boom. That's pretty expensive. Once he has that, then the drivetrain is bicycle technology.</p></div><p>
Human powered flight is about as difficult as aviation gets, at least for right now.  The problem is that it takes more energy than most people realize to lift a human body; we simply don't have the strength or endurance to generate that much power for very long.  I believe the current record is <a href="http://www.gizmag.com/go/1525/" title="gizmag.com">199km</a> [gizmag.com] -- not too shabby, and much better than I thought before I looked it up just now.  FWIW, building the carbon fiber boom isn't difficult (although the carbon fiber is relatively expensive -- but less so than most power plants for experimental aviation).  I did the calculations for a carbon fiber wing spar about a decade ago, and estimated a ~1500 pound airplane stressed for a max G-loading of +6/-4 (plus reserve) would cost around $1000 - $2000.  It isn't cheap, but it's certainly within the realm of possibility for someone of reasonable means.  There was also a guy in Arizona about ten years ago who built a foot-launched sailplane called the Carbon Dragon, that would probably be worth studying if you were interested in trying to build a DIY human powered airplane.  He sold plans for the airplane, but I believe he died a few years ago, so they might be a little hard to find now.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The rest of the wings and pilot's nacelle are fairly sophisticated, but within the capability of a weekend tinkerer to construct. The key is the sophisticated materials you can buy. You make a basketwork out of lightweight wood and Kevlar tape, then heat shrink polyester sheeting on it to create a skin.</p></div><p>
That's not a bad way to do it.  I remember reading magazines dating from the late '60s (I read them in the '90s, though) about people who had build entire airplanes with this method.  <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=N600LW&amp;aq=f&amp;oq=&amp;aqi=" title="google.com">My experimental airplane</a> [google.com] uses a slightly different method, that also might work.  The wing spar is an aluminum tube with foam ribs glued to it.  The leading edge is 2024T3 aluminum wrapped over the ribs to make a stiff skin over the first 1/4 of the wing, then the entire wing is covered a material made by 3M for building greenhouses called Tedlar (as the story goes, 3M freaked and pulled Tedlar from the market after hearing people were building airplanes out of it; I haven't verified the story).  It looks like a full-scale model airplane wing covered in clear Monokote<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)  For human powered flight, I would probably replace the aluminum spar with carbon fiber, like you mentioned earlier, but the principle is the same.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The guy who is working on a certifiable electric aircraft needs to have the most money. He needs a real machinist and sophisticated fabrication techniques. Batteries aren't really good enough for practical aviation yet, so for his demo he needs the best batteries and motor money can buy.</p></div><p>
Agreed, with reservations.  There are a multitude of problems with electric flight, but it's starting to happen.  Flying magazine (I think; might have been AOPA Pilot, but I don't think so) recently ran an article on a couple of new airplanes that are electric powered.  The (arguably) most promising airplane was -- you guessed it -- from China, called &quot;Yuneec&quot;.  Google <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=electric+airplane+oshkosh&amp;aq=f&amp;oq=&amp;aqi=" title="google.com">electric airplane Oshkosh</a> [google.com] and you will get a number of hits on the topic.  Yuneec also sells engine and battery kits to others, so you could try to retrofit the electric power plant to another airframe, if you wanted.  IIRC, the cost wasn't that unreasonable and the power plant was rated at approximately 50 H.P., which would be perfect for a lot of the experimental Light Sport Airplanes like mine (53 H.P. Rotax 503).  This would be especially good for someone who wanted to build an electric motorglider.  Electric airplanes are coming, and will only get better as the technology improves.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The idea of a amateur homebrew helicopter is truly frightening.. . There are several flying examples in the U.S. of amateur-built helicopters .
Granted , most of them are built from professionally manufactured kits ( i.e. , the manufacturer builds a prefab kit , and the " builder " assembles the parts ) , some of which are relatively sophisticated .
Google Rotorway and Mini-500 ( I think the Mini-500 is defunct now , but there were several built back in the '90s ) .
...but * anybody * can dream , especially if he does n't realize how incompetent he really is .
I would argue that often times , those who do n't realize how incompetent they really are are , in fact , the ones who make the biggest advancements .
They do n't know it 's impossible before they try , therefore they are the ones who go ahead and do it anyway .
" The Ark was built by amateurs ; the Titanic was built by professionals .
" ; ) The next step up is the human powered guy .
He needs a long carbon fiber boom as the main longitudinal structural component , and probably another one to carry the lift generated along the wings to the main boom .
That 's pretty expensive .
Once he has that , then the drivetrain is bicycle technology .
Human powered flight is about as difficult as aviation gets , at least for right now .
The problem is that it takes more energy than most people realize to lift a human body ; we simply do n't have the strength or endurance to generate that much power for very long .
I believe the current record is 199km [ gizmag.com ] -- not too shabby , and much better than I thought before I looked it up just now .
FWIW , building the carbon fiber boom is n't difficult ( although the carbon fiber is relatively expensive -- but less so than most power plants for experimental aviation ) .
I did the calculations for a carbon fiber wing spar about a decade ago , and estimated a ~ 1500 pound airplane stressed for a max G-loading of + 6/-4 ( plus reserve ) would cost around $ 1000 - $ 2000 .
It is n't cheap , but it 's certainly within the realm of possibility for someone of reasonable means .
There was also a guy in Arizona about ten years ago who built a foot-launched sailplane called the Carbon Dragon , that would probably be worth studying if you were interested in trying to build a DIY human powered airplane .
He sold plans for the airplane , but I believe he died a few years ago , so they might be a little hard to find now.The rest of the wings and pilot 's nacelle are fairly sophisticated , but within the capability of a weekend tinkerer to construct .
The key is the sophisticated materials you can buy .
You make a basketwork out of lightweight wood and Kevlar tape , then heat shrink polyester sheeting on it to create a skin .
That 's not a bad way to do it .
I remember reading magazines dating from the late '60s ( I read them in the '90s , though ) about people who had build entire airplanes with this method .
My experimental airplane [ google.com ] uses a slightly different method , that also might work .
The wing spar is an aluminum tube with foam ribs glued to it .
The leading edge is 2024T3 aluminum wrapped over the ribs to make a stiff skin over the first 1/4 of the wing , then the entire wing is covered a material made by 3M for building greenhouses called Tedlar ( as the story goes , 3M freaked and pulled Tedlar from the market after hearing people were building airplanes out of it ; I have n't verified the story ) .
It looks like a full-scale model airplane wing covered in clear Monokote ; ) For human powered flight , I would probably replace the aluminum spar with carbon fiber , like you mentioned earlier , but the principle is the same.The guy who is working on a certifiable electric aircraft needs to have the most money .
He needs a real machinist and sophisticated fabrication techniques .
Batteries are n't really good enough for practical aviation yet , so for his demo he needs the best batteries and motor money can buy .
Agreed , with reservations .
There are a multitude of problems with electric flight , but it 's starting to happen .
Flying magazine ( I think ; might have been AOPA Pilot , but I do n't think so ) recently ran an article on a couple of new airplanes that are electric powered .
The ( arguably ) most promising airplane was -- you guessed it -- from China , called " Yuneec " .
Google electric airplane Oshkosh [ google.com ] and you will get a number of hits on the topic .
Yuneec also sells engine and battery kits to others , so you could try to retrofit the electric power plant to another airframe , if you wanted .
IIRC , the cost was n't that unreasonable and the power plant was rated at approximately 50 H.P. , which would be perfect for a lot of the experimental Light Sport Airplanes like mine ( 53 H.P .
Rotax 503 ) .
This would be especially good for someone who wanted to build an electric motorglider .
Electric airplanes are coming , and will only get better as the technology improves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The idea of a amateur homebrew helicopter is truly frightening...
There are several flying examples in the U.S. of amateur-built helicopters.
Granted, most of them are built from professionally manufactured kits (i.e., the manufacturer builds a prefab kit, and the "builder" assembles the parts), some of which are relatively sophisticated.
Google Rotorway and Mini-500 (I think the Mini-500 is defunct now, but there were several built back in the '90s).
...but *anybody* can dream, especially if he doesn't realize how incompetent he really is.
I would argue that often times, those who don't realize how incompetent they really are are, in fact, the ones who make the biggest advancements.
They don't know it's impossible before they try, therefore they are the ones who go ahead and do it anyway.
"The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic was built by professionals.
" ;)The next step up is the human powered guy.
He needs a long carbon fiber boom as the main longitudinal structural component, and probably another one to carry the lift generated along the wings to the main boom.
That's pretty expensive.
Once he has that, then the drivetrain is bicycle technology.
Human powered flight is about as difficult as aviation gets, at least for right now.
The problem is that it takes more energy than most people realize to lift a human body; we simply don't have the strength or endurance to generate that much power for very long.
I believe the current record is 199km [gizmag.com] -- not too shabby, and much better than I thought before I looked it up just now.
FWIW, building the carbon fiber boom isn't difficult (although the carbon fiber is relatively expensive -- but less so than most power plants for experimental aviation).
I did the calculations for a carbon fiber wing spar about a decade ago, and estimated a ~1500 pound airplane stressed for a max G-loading of +6/-4 (plus reserve) would cost around $1000 - $2000.
It isn't cheap, but it's certainly within the realm of possibility for someone of reasonable means.
There was also a guy in Arizona about ten years ago who built a foot-launched sailplane called the Carbon Dragon, that would probably be worth studying if you were interested in trying to build a DIY human powered airplane.
He sold plans for the airplane, but I believe he died a few years ago, so they might be a little hard to find now.The rest of the wings and pilot's nacelle are fairly sophisticated, but within the capability of a weekend tinkerer to construct.
The key is the sophisticated materials you can buy.
You make a basketwork out of lightweight wood and Kevlar tape, then heat shrink polyester sheeting on it to create a skin.
That's not a bad way to do it.
I remember reading magazines dating from the late '60s (I read them in the '90s, though) about people who had build entire airplanes with this method.
My experimental airplane [google.com] uses a slightly different method, that also might work.
The wing spar is an aluminum tube with foam ribs glued to it.
The leading edge is 2024T3 aluminum wrapped over the ribs to make a stiff skin over the first 1/4 of the wing, then the entire wing is covered a material made by 3M for building greenhouses called Tedlar (as the story goes, 3M freaked and pulled Tedlar from the market after hearing people were building airplanes out of it; I haven't verified the story).
It looks like a full-scale model airplane wing covered in clear Monokote ;)  For human powered flight, I would probably replace the aluminum spar with carbon fiber, like you mentioned earlier, but the principle is the same.The guy who is working on a certifiable electric aircraft needs to have the most money.
He needs a real machinist and sophisticated fabrication techniques.
Batteries aren't really good enough for practical aviation yet, so for his demo he needs the best batteries and motor money can buy.
Agreed, with reservations.
There are a multitude of problems with electric flight, but it's starting to happen.
Flying magazine (I think; might have been AOPA Pilot, but I don't think so) recently ran an article on a couple of new airplanes that are electric powered.
The (arguably) most promising airplane was -- you guessed it -- from China, called "Yuneec".
Google electric airplane Oshkosh [google.com] and you will get a number of hits on the topic.
Yuneec also sells engine and battery kits to others, so you could try to retrofit the electric power plant to another airframe, if you wanted.
IIRC, the cost wasn't that unreasonable and the power plant was rated at approximately 50 H.P., which would be perfect for a lot of the experimental Light Sport Airplanes like mine (53 H.P.
Rotax 503).
This would be especially good for someone who wanted to build an electric motorglider.
Electric airplanes are coming, and will only get better as the technology improves.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581392</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581812</id>
	<title>Some Chinese homemade aircraft videos</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262100960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STvpqWeZ158" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STvpqWeZ158</a> [youtube.com]<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbwV-GWIZz8" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbwV-GWIZz8</a> [youtube.com]<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRo9UvzgJYM" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRo9UvzgJYM</a> [youtube.com]<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqa5nyk6hCk" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqa5nyk6hCk</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = STvpqWeZ158 [ youtube.com ] http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = jbwV-GWIZz8 [ youtube.com ] http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = KRo9UvzgJYM [ youtube.com ] http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = eqa5nyk6hCk [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STvpqWeZ158 [youtube.com]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbwV-GWIZz8 [youtube.com]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRo9UvzgJYM [youtube.com]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqa5nyk6hCk [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581376</id>
	<title>What the pilots are thinking during landing</title>
	<author>dkleinsc</author>
	<datestamp>1262097240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've got to concentrate<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... concentrate<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... concentrate<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br>I've got to concentrate<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... concentrate<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... concentrate<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br>Hello<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... hello<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... hello<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br>echo<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... echo<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... echo<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br>Pinch hitting for Pedro Borbon, Manny Mota<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Mota<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. Mota<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've got to concentrate ... concentrate ... concentrate ...I 've got to concentrate ... concentrate ... concentrate ...Hello ... hello ... hello ...echo ... echo ... echo ...Pinch hitting for Pedro Borbon , Manny Mota ... Mota .. Mota .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've got to concentrate ... concentrate ... concentrate ...I've got to concentrate ... concentrate ... concentrate ...Hello ... hello ... hello ...echo ... echo ... echo ...Pinch hitting for Pedro Borbon, Manny Mota ... Mota .. Mota ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30588134</id>
	<title>Re:More than just China and aircraft</title>
	<author>HornWumpus</author>
	<datestamp>1262087820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Making things is more complicated then you give it credit.
</p><p>
Very much in general:
</p><p>
Before you machine a part you often start with a rough casting or billet.
</p><p>
After you machine a part you might heat treat and/or electroplate it, depending.
</p><p>
After that you might do a final grind or EDM (Electric Discharge Machining), depending.
</p><p>
Heat treatment, beyond the torch and quench, will never be anything other then hazardous and industrial. I wouldn't set up an arsenic salt bath at home, even if it were easy.
</p><p>
The same is true for electroplating, although I've seen that some intrepid individuals are playing/working at that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Making things is more complicated then you give it credit .
Very much in general : Before you machine a part you often start with a rough casting or billet .
After you machine a part you might heat treat and/or electroplate it , depending .
After that you might do a final grind or EDM ( Electric Discharge Machining ) , depending .
Heat treatment , beyond the torch and quench , will never be anything other then hazardous and industrial .
I would n't set up an arsenic salt bath at home , even if it were easy .
The same is true for electroplating , although I 've seen that some intrepid individuals are playing/working at that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Making things is more complicated then you give it credit.
Very much in general:

Before you machine a part you often start with a rough casting or billet.
After you machine a part you might heat treat and/or electroplate it, depending.
After that you might do a final grind or EDM (Electric Discharge Machining), depending.
Heat treatment, beyond the torch and quench, will never be anything other then hazardous and industrial.
I wouldn't set up an arsenic salt bath at home, even if it were easy.
The same is true for electroplating, although I've seen that some intrepid individuals are playing/working at that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30584208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30585408</id>
	<title>Escape communist dictatorship? HAH!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262119260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I was young, we <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias\_Rust" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">escaped <i>to</i> socialist dictatorships.</a> [wikipedia.org] Then we spent a while in USSR prison as it was closest thing to rest we could ever get! And we never complained!</p><p>But tell that to youngsters today and they won't believe you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was young , we escaped to socialist dictatorships .
[ wikipedia.org ] Then we spent a while in USSR prison as it was closest thing to rest we could ever get !
And we never complained ! But tell that to youngsters today and they wo n't believe you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was young, we escaped to socialist dictatorships.
[wikipedia.org] Then we spent a while in USSR prison as it was closest thing to rest we could ever get!
And we never complained!But tell that to youngsters today and they won't believe you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581440</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30587484</id>
	<title>Re:More than just China and aircraft</title>
	<author>countertrolling</author>
	<datestamp>1262085300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>People will trade information on technologies, how-to information, plans, and parts to make sophisticated products in their home or workshop.</i></p><p>Yeah well, don't be so optimistic. You can bet there are <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/04/08/BU140716.DTL" title="sfgate.com" rel="nofollow">certain groups</a> [sfgate.com] who will always be out to nip that kind of thing at the bud.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People will trade information on technologies , how-to information , plans , and parts to make sophisticated products in their home or workshop.Yeah well , do n't be so optimistic .
You can bet there are certain groups [ sfgate.com ] who will always be out to nip that kind of thing at the bud .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People will trade information on technologies, how-to information, plans, and parts to make sophisticated products in their home or workshop.Yeah well, don't be so optimistic.
You can bet there are certain groups [sfgate.com] who will always be out to nip that kind of thing at the bud.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30584208</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581440</id>
	<title>Escaping!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262097840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Some people will do just about ANYTHING to escape a communist dictatorship.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some people will do just about ANYTHING to escape a communist dictatorship .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some people will do just about ANYTHING to escape a communist dictatorship.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30582320</id>
	<title>Re:News?</title>
	<author>GrumblyStuff</author>
	<datestamp>1262104140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see this more as 'Some people in China living comfortably enough to focus on things that may or may not pay off.'  It might just be for fun but it's flexing the brain.  Intellectual curiosity, you know?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see this more as 'Some people in China living comfortably enough to focus on things that may or may not pay off .
' It might just be for fun but it 's flexing the brain .
Intellectual curiosity , you know ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see this more as 'Some people in China living comfortably enough to focus on things that may or may not pay off.
'  It might just be for fun but it's flexing the brain.
Intellectual curiosity, you know?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581224</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581956</id>
	<title>Re:Gotta say it...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262101920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes and no.</p><p>Check with EAA and you can learn all the skills for working with multiple types of aircraft fabrication elements (wood, cloth, aluminum, carbon fiber, fiberglass, etc).</p><p>Lots of people have built both helicopters and gyrocopters. The skill set to BUILD an aircraft isn't that advanced.  (Designing one on the other hand...)</p><p>I am impressed with the human powered aircraft.   Designing a working version of that takes skill.</p><p>The electric airplane company is a whole different matter.  That's going to be a whole new industry as people start developing electric aircraft primarily as trainers.  (Definitely not a homebuilder building one for his/her own enjoyment)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes and no.Check with EAA and you can learn all the skills for working with multiple types of aircraft fabrication elements ( wood , cloth , aluminum , carbon fiber , fiberglass , etc ) .Lots of people have built both helicopters and gyrocopters .
The skill set to BUILD an aircraft is n't that advanced .
( Designing one on the other hand... ) I am impressed with the human powered aircraft .
Designing a working version of that takes skill.The electric airplane company is a whole different matter .
That 's going to be a whole new industry as people start developing electric aircraft primarily as trainers .
( Definitely not a homebuilder building one for his/her own enjoyment )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes and no.Check with EAA and you can learn all the skills for working with multiple types of aircraft fabrication elements (wood, cloth, aluminum, carbon fiber, fiberglass, etc).Lots of people have built both helicopters and gyrocopters.
The skill set to BUILD an aircraft isn't that advanced.
(Designing one on the other hand...)I am impressed with the human powered aircraft.
Designing a working version of that takes skill.The electric airplane company is a whole different matter.
That's going to be a whole new industry as people start developing electric aircraft primarily as trainers.
(Definitely not a homebuilder building one for his/her own enjoyment)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581392</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581224</id>
	<title>News?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262095860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How is this news?  People make homebrew/budget planes and what-not all the time.  Remember those idiots with their weather balloon?  Does X-Prize mean anything to you?</p><p>Coming up next - man grows his OWN food!!1!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How is this news ?
People make homebrew/budget planes and what-not all the time .
Remember those idiots with their weather balloon ?
Does X-Prize mean anything to you ? Coming up next - man grows his OWN food !
! 1 !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is this news?
People make homebrew/budget planes and what-not all the time.
Remember those idiots with their weather balloon?
Does X-Prize mean anything to you?Coming up next - man grows his OWN food!
!1!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30588278</id>
	<title>Re:Gotta say it...</title>
	<author>hey!</author>
	<datestamp>1262088540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Hundreds, maybe thousands of people have built their own helicopters around the world.</p> </div><p>I don't doubt that for a moment.  That doesn't mean the idea isn't *scary*. If an engineer from Sikorsky invites me for a ride in the latest model, I'll accept his assertion that it's perfectly safe.  If Joe Experimenter invites me for a ride in his home built and designed helicopter, assuring me it's just as safe, I don't doubt that it's *physically possible* for that to be true, but I'd pass, thank you.</p><p>I'd also have no problems getting into an aircraft designed and built under Burt Rutan's supervision, or designed by Rutan and assembled without engineering improvisation by a competent mechanic.  But Rutan is not an amateur. He has a degree in aeronautical engineering and worked in the field for years before selling his designs to other people.  That's a hell of a lot different from some guy with no experience who decides he's going to design a helicopter from first principles.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hundreds , maybe thousands of people have built their own helicopters around the world .
I do n't doubt that for a moment .
That does n't mean the idea is n't * scary * .
If an engineer from Sikorsky invites me for a ride in the latest model , I 'll accept his assertion that it 's perfectly safe .
If Joe Experimenter invites me for a ride in his home built and designed helicopter , assuring me it 's just as safe , I do n't doubt that it 's * physically possible * for that to be true , but I 'd pass , thank you.I 'd also have no problems getting into an aircraft designed and built under Burt Rutan 's supervision , or designed by Rutan and assembled without engineering improvisation by a competent mechanic .
But Rutan is not an amateur .
He has a degree in aeronautical engineering and worked in the field for years before selling his designs to other people .
That 's a hell of a lot different from some guy with no experience who decides he 's going to design a helicopter from first principles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hundreds, maybe thousands of people have built their own helicopters around the world.
I don't doubt that for a moment.
That doesn't mean the idea isn't *scary*.
If an engineer from Sikorsky invites me for a ride in the latest model, I'll accept his assertion that it's perfectly safe.
If Joe Experimenter invites me for a ride in his home built and designed helicopter, assuring me it's just as safe, I don't doubt that it's *physically possible* for that to be true, but I'd pass, thank you.I'd also have no problems getting into an aircraft designed and built under Burt Rutan's supervision, or designed by Rutan and assembled without engineering improvisation by a competent mechanic.
But Rutan is not an amateur.
He has a degree in aeronautical engineering and worked in the field for years before selling his designs to other people.
That's a hell of a lot different from some guy with no experience who decides he's going to design a helicopter from first principles.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581486</id>
	<title>Re:Got nuthin</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262098200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Clash?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Clash ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Clash?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581172</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30587680</id>
	<title>Confusious Say</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262086020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Man no wing fry down frast</htmltext>
<tokenext>Man no wing fry down frast</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Man no wing fry down frast</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581166</id>
	<title>FP!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262095080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So as X goes to infinity, Y goes to zero?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So as X goes to infinity , Y goes to zero ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So as X goes to infinity, Y goes to zero?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30591938</id>
	<title>Re:Easily plotted.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259842200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They don't actually need to be related.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They do n't actually need to be related .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They don't actually need to be related.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581878</id>
	<title>can i ask what china doesn't do yet</title>
	<author>CHRONOSS2008</author>
	<datestamp>1262101440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>so we can give that to them to do as well<br>yes slaves of china we need you to milk our cows<br>shovel our shit<br>and fly us around</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so we can give that to them to do as wellyes slaves of china we need you to milk our cowsshovel our shitand fly us around</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so we can give that to them to do as wellyes slaves of china we need you to milk our cowsshovel our shitand fly us around</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30582060</id>
	<title>Re:And in the Z axis</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262102580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And it would still be a 2D graph</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And it would still be a 2D graph</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And it would still be a 2D graph</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581302</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581254</id>
	<title>Gotta say it...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262096100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With two measurable qualities, couldn't you graph anything on?  # of cabbages sold per day, number of kills I get playing Team Fortress 2 per day.  Other than what day it is, they're not related.  Unless I just don't know that consuming a cabbage gives me better skills (which is to say, skills greater than 0).  Is whoever wrote the summary trying to suggest they're two related qualities?  That's a rheatorical question, as I'm pretty sure they are - but I wish I was more suprised that someone made such an inane and baseless statement in a slashdot summary.  I mean, you're not writing the article yourself (except in some cases), surely doing a summary that isn't ridiculous isn't too much of a stretch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With two measurable qualities , could n't you graph anything on ?
# of cabbages sold per day , number of kills I get playing Team Fortress 2 per day .
Other than what day it is , they 're not related .
Unless I just do n't know that consuming a cabbage gives me better skills ( which is to say , skills greater than 0 ) .
Is whoever wrote the summary trying to suggest they 're two related qualities ?
That 's a rheatorical question , as I 'm pretty sure they are - but I wish I was more suprised that someone made such an inane and baseless statement in a slashdot summary .
I mean , you 're not writing the article yourself ( except in some cases ) , surely doing a summary that is n't ridiculous is n't too much of a stretch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With two measurable qualities, couldn't you graph anything on?
# of cabbages sold per day, number of kills I get playing Team Fortress 2 per day.
Other than what day it is, they're not related.
Unless I just don't know that consuming a cabbage gives me better skills (which is to say, skills greater than 0).
Is whoever wrote the summary trying to suggest they're two related qualities?
That's a rheatorical question, as I'm pretty sure they are - but I wish I was more suprised that someone made such an inane and baseless statement in a slashdot summary.
I mean, you're not writing the article yourself (except in some cases), surely doing a summary that isn't ridiculous isn't too much of a stretch.</sentencetext>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_29_0417230.30581944</id>
	<title>Re:Escaping!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1262101800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Some people will do just about ANYTHING to escape a communist dictatorship.</p></div><p>Yeah, but getting out of the US is harder than you think.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some people will do just about ANYTHING to escape a communist dictatorship.Yeah , but getting out of the US is harder than you think .
: (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some people will do just about ANYTHING to escape a communist dictatorship.Yeah, but getting out of the US is harder than you think.
:(
	</sentencetext>
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