<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_24_1348223</id>
	<title>"Home Batteries" Power Houses For a Week</title>
	<author>CmdrTaco</author>
	<datestamp>1261670700000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>tjansen writes <i>"Panasonic has announced <a href="http://nexus404.com/Blog/2009/12/24/new-panasonic-lithium-ion-battery-to-power-up-a-house-new-li-ion-battery-coming-from-panasonic-in-2011/">plans to create 'home batteries.'</a> They are lithium-ion batteries large enough to power a house for a week, making energy sources such as solar and wind power more feasible. Also, you can buy energy when it is cheapest, and don't need to worry about power outages anymore."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>tjansen writes " Panasonic has announced plans to create 'home batteries .
' They are lithium-ion batteries large enough to power a house for a week , making energy sources such as solar and wind power more feasible .
Also , you can buy energy when it is cheapest , and do n't need to worry about power outages anymore .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>tjansen writes "Panasonic has announced plans to create 'home batteries.
' They are lithium-ion batteries large enough to power a house for a week, making energy sources such as solar and wind power more feasible.
Also, you can buy energy when it is cheapest, and don't need to worry about power outages anymore.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545404</id>
	<title>Re:Video of actual Lithium Ion battery fire (stage</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1261680000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps there are better battery chemistries that we should be pursuing. I purchased a solar-powered gizmo that uses a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium\_iron\_phosphate\_battery" title="wikipedia.org">Lithium Iron Phosphate</a> [wikipedia.org] battery. While the conventional Li-ion batteries have somewhat higher energy to weight ratios, this isn't as important for something sitting in one's basement as it is in a laptop you've got to lug around all day.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps there are better battery chemistries that we should be pursuing .
I purchased a solar-powered gizmo that uses a Lithium Iron Phosphate [ wikipedia.org ] battery .
While the conventional Li-ion batteries have somewhat higher energy to weight ratios , this is n't as important for something sitting in one 's basement as it is in a laptop you 've got to lug around all day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps there are better battery chemistries that we should be pursuing.
I purchased a solar-powered gizmo that uses a Lithium Iron Phosphate [wikipedia.org] battery.
While the conventional Li-ion batteries have somewhat higher energy to weight ratios, this isn't as important for something sitting in one's basement as it is in a laptop you've got to lug around all day.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545562</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong technology</title>
	<author>countertrolling</author>
	<datestamp>1261681140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I wouldn't want a house battery I'd have to replace every few years.</i></p><p>It's very difficult to sustain an economy if durable goods are actually durable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't want a house battery I 'd have to replace every few years.It 's very difficult to sustain an economy if durable goods are actually durable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't want a house battery I'd have to replace every few years.It's very difficult to sustain an economy if durable goods are actually durable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544890</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544572</id>
	<title>What a horrible article</title>
	<author>ceoyoyo</author>
	<datestamp>1261674900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The page linked to is an ad laden (carefully selected related items, yeah right) mess that has this third or fourth hand.  Even physorg just has  a press release that mentions the battery and focuses on Panasonic acquiring Sharp and how harsh the corporate environment is.</p><p>How big is this thing?  What is it's capacity?  Is that a Japanese house, or a North American one?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The page linked to is an ad laden ( carefully selected related items , yeah right ) mess that has this third or fourth hand .
Even physorg just has a press release that mentions the battery and focuses on Panasonic acquiring Sharp and how harsh the corporate environment is.How big is this thing ?
What is it 's capacity ?
Is that a Japanese house , or a North American one ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The page linked to is an ad laden (carefully selected related items, yeah right) mess that has this third or fourth hand.
Even physorg just has  a press release that mentions the battery and focuses on Panasonic acquiring Sharp and how harsh the corporate environment is.How big is this thing?
What is it's capacity?
Is that a Japanese house, or a North American one?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544704</id>
	<title>Vaporware</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261675620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Emphasis mine:<blockquote><div><p>Panasonic has <strong>announced plans</strong> to create 'home batteries.' They are lithium-ion batteries large enough to power a house for a week, making energy sources such as solar and wind power more feasible. Also, <strong>you can</strong> buy energy when it is cheapest, and <strong>don't need to worry</strong> about power outages anymore.</p></div></blockquote><p>Sorry, but if they have only just "announced plans", then, for the foreseeable future,  I still can <strong>not</strong> power a house for a week, and I still <strong>need</strong> to worry about power outages.

</p><p>Wake me up, when I can pick these up at Lowe's... Or, at least, order them online somewhere...

</p><p>Indeed, <a href="http://nexus404.com/Blog/2009/12/24/new-panasonic-lithium-ion-battery-to-power-up-a-house-new-li-ion-battery-coming-from-panasonic-in-2011/" title="nexus404.com">TFA</a> [nexus404.com] itself uses the proper tenses and gives the ETA for what currently can only be called "vaporware":</p><blockquote><div><p>Panasonic is going to create one of the hottest batteries available to date. The new lithium-ion storage cell <strong>should</strong> power up a whole house in <strong>2011</strong> when it could be available to the general public. [...] <strong>No specific details</strong> about the future home battery from Panasonic have been given yet. In two years time we should know more about the device and Panasonic will definitely want to periodically show everyone its progress.</p></div></blockquote><p>CmdrTaco, WTF?..</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Emphasis mine : Panasonic has announced plans to create 'home batteries .
' They are lithium-ion batteries large enough to power a house for a week , making energy sources such as solar and wind power more feasible .
Also , you can buy energy when it is cheapest , and do n't need to worry about power outages anymore.Sorry , but if they have only just " announced plans " , then , for the foreseeable future , I still can not power a house for a week , and I still need to worry about power outages .
Wake me up , when I can pick these up at Lowe 's... Or , at least , order them online somewhere.. . Indeed , TFA [ nexus404.com ] itself uses the proper tenses and gives the ETA for what currently can only be called " vaporware " : Panasonic is going to create one of the hottest batteries available to date .
The new lithium-ion storage cell should power up a whole house in 2011 when it could be available to the general public .
[ ... ] No specific details about the future home battery from Panasonic have been given yet .
In two years time we should know more about the device and Panasonic will definitely want to periodically show everyone its progress.CmdrTaco , WTF ? . .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Emphasis mine:Panasonic has announced plans to create 'home batteries.
' They are lithium-ion batteries large enough to power a house for a week, making energy sources such as solar and wind power more feasible.
Also, you can buy energy when it is cheapest, and don't need to worry about power outages anymore.Sorry, but if they have only just "announced plans", then, for the foreseeable future,  I still can not power a house for a week, and I still need to worry about power outages.
Wake me up, when I can pick these up at Lowe's... Or, at least, order them online somewhere...

Indeed, TFA [nexus404.com] itself uses the proper tenses and gives the ETA for what currently can only be called "vaporware":Panasonic is going to create one of the hottest batteries available to date.
The new lithium-ion storage cell should power up a whole house in 2011 when it could be available to the general public.
[...] No specific details about the future home battery from Panasonic have been given yet.
In two years time we should know more about the device and Panasonic will definitely want to periodically show everyone its progress.CmdrTaco, WTF?..
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544834</id>
	<title>I already have batteries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261676400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I already have three [lead-acid] batteries providing emergency power in my house: the burglar alarm, the alarm's GSM modem, and the UPS serving the network cabinet. The alarm batteries are for obvious reasons; the network UPS is because I got tired of resetting the damn modem and router after every one-second power failure.</p><p>Outside of that, considering how rare power failures are, we have no reason for a whole-house UPS or generator. Should a hurricane cause a multi-day power failure, my calculations show that it's not worth $1600 for a standby generator to save $70 of food in the fridge. Like any good Florida residents, we have non-perishable food, bottled water, and a gas chainsaw at the ready. Our cell phone batteries can be charged off our cars' lighter sockets, or in the worst case, I could cannibalize the 12 V battery from the burglar alarm and MacGyverize a phone charger to it.</p><p>If our neighborhood should ever get a sewer main, there's a chance my house would need a sewer grind/lift pump. Likewise, if I ever decide to install plumbing in the basement--which is below the septic tank--I'd need a lift pump. Either of these situations would, for obvious reasons, tempt me to lay down $1600 for a 7 kW auto-start standby generator.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I already have three [ lead-acid ] batteries providing emergency power in my house : the burglar alarm , the alarm 's GSM modem , and the UPS serving the network cabinet .
The alarm batteries are for obvious reasons ; the network UPS is because I got tired of resetting the damn modem and router after every one-second power failure.Outside of that , considering how rare power failures are , we have no reason for a whole-house UPS or generator .
Should a hurricane cause a multi-day power failure , my calculations show that it 's not worth $ 1600 for a standby generator to save $ 70 of food in the fridge .
Like any good Florida residents , we have non-perishable food , bottled water , and a gas chainsaw at the ready .
Our cell phone batteries can be charged off our cars ' lighter sockets , or in the worst case , I could cannibalize the 12 V battery from the burglar alarm and MacGyverize a phone charger to it.If our neighborhood should ever get a sewer main , there 's a chance my house would need a sewer grind/lift pump .
Likewise , if I ever decide to install plumbing in the basement--which is below the septic tank--I 'd need a lift pump .
Either of these situations would , for obvious reasons , tempt me to lay down $ 1600 for a 7 kW auto-start standby generator .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I already have three [lead-acid] batteries providing emergency power in my house: the burglar alarm, the alarm's GSM modem, and the UPS serving the network cabinet.
The alarm batteries are for obvious reasons; the network UPS is because I got tired of resetting the damn modem and router after every one-second power failure.Outside of that, considering how rare power failures are, we have no reason for a whole-house UPS or generator.
Should a hurricane cause a multi-day power failure, my calculations show that it's not worth $1600 for a standby generator to save $70 of food in the fridge.
Like any good Florida residents, we have non-perishable food, bottled water, and a gas chainsaw at the ready.
Our cell phone batteries can be charged off our cars' lighter sockets, or in the worst case, I could cannibalize the 12 V battery from the burglar alarm and MacGyverize a phone charger to it.If our neighborhood should ever get a sewer main, there's a chance my house would need a sewer grind/lift pump.
Likewise, if I ever decide to install plumbing in the basement--which is below the septic tank--I'd need a lift pump.
Either of these situations would, for obvious reasons, tempt me to lay down $1600 for a 7 kW auto-start standby generator.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30547612</id>
	<title>Do Want</title>
	<author>Stepnsteph</author>
	<datestamp>1261655160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As of the time of this posting it's sleeting, and we face the prospect of 30+ MPH winds along with ~6 inches of snow.</p><p>On the subject of a battery back up system for a house I have to say, "Duh, I wish it would have been done sooner."  It's a little unpleasant to think that my evening could be a long, cold night with howling winds and sleets of ice.</p><p>..but hey, maybe we'll get lucky.</p><p>Of course the safety of the batteries is a concern, but right now I just wish this would have been standard a long time ago.  Heck, solar roofs and possibly wind power should have been standard a long time ago (reducing, not eliminating, the reliance on a public power system), but that's a whole other rant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As of the time of this posting it 's sleeting , and we face the prospect of 30 + MPH winds along with ~ 6 inches of snow.On the subject of a battery back up system for a house I have to say , " Duh , I wish it would have been done sooner .
" It 's a little unpleasant to think that my evening could be a long , cold night with howling winds and sleets of ice...but hey , maybe we 'll get lucky.Of course the safety of the batteries is a concern , but right now I just wish this would have been standard a long time ago .
Heck , solar roofs and possibly wind power should have been standard a long time ago ( reducing , not eliminating , the reliance on a public power system ) , but that 's a whole other rant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As of the time of this posting it's sleeting, and we face the prospect of 30+ MPH winds along with ~6 inches of snow.On the subject of a battery back up system for a house I have to say, "Duh, I wish it would have been done sooner.
"  It's a little unpleasant to think that my evening could be a long, cold night with howling winds and sleets of ice...but hey, maybe we'll get lucky.Of course the safety of the batteries is a concern, but right now I just wish this would have been standard a long time ago.
Heck, solar roofs and possibly wind power should have been standard a long time ago (reducing, not eliminating, the reliance on a public power system), but that's a whole other rant.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30550094</id>
	<title>Re:Makes more sense for utility to use these</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261740000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>HUH?  Everyone I know owns their own lawnmower.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>HUH ?
Everyone I know owns their own lawnmower .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>HUH?
Everyone I know owns their own lawnmower.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544974</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546692</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261646940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's really interesting for me to read about so many places in the USA having power outages.  I've lived in south africa most of my life, and there were only power outages where Iived starting about a year/a year and a half, ago.  Since moving to the UK I've not had any power outages.  why is American electricity so unstable?</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's really interesting for me to read about so many places in the USA having power outages .
I 've lived in south africa most of my life , and there were only power outages where Iived starting about a year/a year and a half , ago .
Since moving to the UK I 've not had any power outages .
why is American electricity so unstable ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's really interesting for me to read about so many places in the USA having power outages.
I've lived in south africa most of my life, and there were only power outages where Iived starting about a year/a year and a half, ago.
Since moving to the UK I've not had any power outages.
why is American electricity so unstable?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544794</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545888</id>
	<title>Re:Makes more sense for utility to use these</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261683060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>For the purpose of storing intermittent wind and solar power,<br>the electric utility companies could use mass installations of<br>these batteries. Assuming they don't have hydro dams to<br>run in reverse using the wind and solar, that is.</p></div><p>Funny you should mention it.  They actually *have* exactly that...  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage\_hydroelectricity" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Pumped-storage\_hydroelectricity</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>For the purpose of storing intermittent wind and solar power,the electric utility companies could use mass installations ofthese batteries .
Assuming they do n't have hydro dams torun in reverse using the wind and solar , that is.Funny you should mention it .
They actually * have * exactly that... Pumped-storage \ _hydroelectricity [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For the purpose of storing intermittent wind and solar power,the electric utility companies could use mass installations ofthese batteries.
Assuming they don't have hydro dams torun in reverse using the wind and solar, that is.Funny you should mention it.
They actually *have* exactly that...  Pumped-storage\_hydroelectricity [wikipedia.org]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544974</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544912</id>
	<title>And Santa will deliver them...</title>
	<author>Tony Reina</author>
	<datestamp>1261676820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow! "Plans" to develop batteries in 2011. Stop the press!!

And, I have "plans" to develop a pocket watch-sized nuclear reactor for my home in 2012. It'll be designed with gum drops and built by my own sense of self-promotion.

Perhaps they should have mentioned that each home battery will ship with a copy of Duke Nukem Forever and delivered by Saint Nick.

Please...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow !
" Plans " to develop batteries in 2011 .
Stop the press ! !
And , I have " plans " to develop a pocket watch-sized nuclear reactor for my home in 2012 .
It 'll be designed with gum drops and built by my own sense of self-promotion .
Perhaps they should have mentioned that each home battery will ship with a copy of Duke Nukem Forever and delivered by Saint Nick .
Please.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow!
"Plans" to develop batteries in 2011.
Stop the press!!
And, I have "plans" to develop a pocket watch-sized nuclear reactor for my home in 2012.
It'll be designed with gum drops and built by my own sense of self-promotion.
Perhaps they should have mentioned that each home battery will ship with a copy of Duke Nukem Forever and delivered by Saint Nick.
Please...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30548782</id>
	<title>Compare to a flywheel in your back yard.</title>
	<author>viking80</author>
	<datestamp>1261671000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since weight and space is not at premium, Li ion seems like a bad idea, and since TFA just talks about "looking at" the conclusion will probably be "not feasible". What is feasible is a big flywheel. A 1 ton flywheel can store more than 50kWh. You can build one yourself, and bury it in your back yard. The only challenge would be to place it in vacuum.</p><p>What you need:<br>1. Wheel bearings and HW. Cheap, solid and strong. Find a complete rear suspension with disk brakes and mount it with the axle vertical. Replace the grease with vacuum rated grease. $20<br>2. Fiberglass (e-type) and epoxy for wheel. Build it in place like a spoked rim on top of a wheel that fits your vertical read suspension. $1000 You can use carbon fiber, but e-glass is just as strong, just less stiff, but for your use, e-glass is OK. Dont use s-glass.<br>3. Electric motor/generator. Pick a flywheel diameter that allow a rotational speed where the motor is happy. Use a brushless design. See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel#Physics" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel#Physics</a> [wikipedia.org]<br>4. Build it into a vacuum and bury it in your back yard. The reason to bury it is both to get it out of the way, and to have a solid mass to capture parts if the flywheel disintegrates. Above ground, and you will have a lot of bullet velocity fragments that will pierce your neighbors houses. Dirt will stop this easily. A small vacuum pump should be added.</p><p>Balance, clean and evacuate the whole setup carefully, and speed it up. One note of caution: If you plan to run it fast, balance it carefully. Even the weight of a fingerprint can cause the whole wheel to vibrate above safe levels. This was discovered violently by the Iranian nuclear scientists when setting up their Uranium hexafluoride centrifuges.</p><p>Have fun.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since weight and space is not at premium , Li ion seems like a bad idea , and since TFA just talks about " looking at " the conclusion will probably be " not feasible " .
What is feasible is a big flywheel .
A 1 ton flywheel can store more than 50kWh .
You can build one yourself , and bury it in your back yard .
The only challenge would be to place it in vacuum.What you need : 1 .
Wheel bearings and HW .
Cheap , solid and strong .
Find a complete rear suspension with disk brakes and mount it with the axle vertical .
Replace the grease with vacuum rated grease .
$ 202. Fiberglass ( e-type ) and epoxy for wheel .
Build it in place like a spoked rim on top of a wheel that fits your vertical read suspension .
$ 1000 You can use carbon fiber , but e-glass is just as strong , just less stiff , but for your use , e-glass is OK. Dont use s-glass.3 .
Electric motor/generator .
Pick a flywheel diameter that allow a rotational speed where the motor is happy .
Use a brushless design .
See http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel # Physics [ wikipedia.org ] 4 .
Build it into a vacuum and bury it in your back yard .
The reason to bury it is both to get it out of the way , and to have a solid mass to capture parts if the flywheel disintegrates .
Above ground , and you will have a lot of bullet velocity fragments that will pierce your neighbors houses .
Dirt will stop this easily .
A small vacuum pump should be added.Balance , clean and evacuate the whole setup carefully , and speed it up .
One note of caution : If you plan to run it fast , balance it carefully .
Even the weight of a fingerprint can cause the whole wheel to vibrate above safe levels .
This was discovered violently by the Iranian nuclear scientists when setting up their Uranium hexafluoride centrifuges.Have fun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since weight and space is not at premium, Li ion seems like a bad idea, and since TFA just talks about "looking at" the conclusion will probably be "not feasible".
What is feasible is a big flywheel.
A 1 ton flywheel can store more than 50kWh.
You can build one yourself, and bury it in your back yard.
The only challenge would be to place it in vacuum.What you need:1.
Wheel bearings and HW.
Cheap, solid and strong.
Find a complete rear suspension with disk brakes and mount it with the axle vertical.
Replace the grease with vacuum rated grease.
$202. Fiberglass (e-type) and epoxy for wheel.
Build it in place like a spoked rim on top of a wheel that fits your vertical read suspension.
$1000 You can use carbon fiber, but e-glass is just as strong, just less stiff, but for your use, e-glass is OK. Dont use s-glass.3.
Electric motor/generator.
Pick a flywheel diameter that allow a rotational speed where the motor is happy.
Use a brushless design.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel#Physics [wikipedia.org]4.
Build it into a vacuum and bury it in your back yard.
The reason to bury it is both to get it out of the way, and to have a solid mass to capture parts if the flywheel disintegrates.
Above ground, and you will have a lot of bullet velocity fragments that will pierce your neighbors houses.
Dirt will stop this easily.
A small vacuum pump should be added.Balance, clean and evacuate the whole setup carefully, and speed it up.
One note of caution: If you plan to run it fast, balance it carefully.
Even the weight of a fingerprint can cause the whole wheel to vibrate above safe levels.
This was discovered violently by the Iranian nuclear scientists when setting up their Uranium hexafluoride centrifuges.Have fun.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545584</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>toastar</author>
	<datestamp>1261681200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
When Ike hit, Most of houston was without power for about a week.  It's amazing how many generators I saw installed afterward.

Is this really cheaper then a generator and a couple weeks worth of fuel?</htmltext>
<tokenext>When Ike hit , Most of houston was without power for about a week .
It 's amazing how many generators I saw installed afterward .
Is this really cheaper then a generator and a couple weeks worth of fuel ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
When Ike hit, Most of houston was without power for about a week.
It's amazing how many generators I saw installed afterward.
Is this really cheaper then a generator and a couple weeks worth of fuel?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544780</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261676040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I've looked at doing this in a home, with group 8D batteries. The price starts going up, when you start looking at inverters/charge controllers that can be grid tied.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I laid out plans for using cheaper inverters (one per 15A circuit), and an independent charging system, but even still, the price is pretty high.  That idea was to convert homes one circuit at a time, until they were fully "green".</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; The idea of charging the batteries when the rate is cheaper will unfortunately go away as these are adopted.  Right now, it's an insanely small amount of homes have their own battery room, and run off their own power during peak prices.  If it even approached say 10\%, the utilities would start charging accordingly.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; It's something I'd love to see.  If they made these affordable for most homes, you'd see alternative energy sources take off.  Ok, so I have batteries.  Now I can put on a solar array, and a wind generator.   I can supplement that with a generator (which most homes have, depending on your area).  You'd see priority go to solar, wind, grid, and generator.  The automatic inverter/charger/switches aren't exactly cheap though.   And, they're frequently difficult to source locally.  You can't exactly run down to Home Depot or Lowes and pick one up.  The day will come though.  They're already offering a small election of solar appliances (like solar attic fans).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>    I 've looked at doing this in a home , with group 8D batteries .
The price starts going up , when you start looking at inverters/charge controllers that can be grid tied .
    I laid out plans for using cheaper inverters ( one per 15A circuit ) , and an independent charging system , but even still , the price is pretty high .
That idea was to convert homes one circuit at a time , until they were fully " green " .
    The idea of charging the batteries when the rate is cheaper will unfortunately go away as these are adopted .
Right now , it 's an insanely small amount of homes have their own battery room , and run off their own power during peak prices .
If it even approached say 10 \ % , the utilities would start charging accordingly .
    It 's something I 'd love to see .
If they made these affordable for most homes , you 'd see alternative energy sources take off .
Ok , so I have batteries .
Now I can put on a solar array , and a wind generator .
I can supplement that with a generator ( which most homes have , depending on your area ) .
You 'd see priority go to solar , wind , grid , and generator .
The automatic inverter/charger/switches are n't exactly cheap though .
And , they 're frequently difficult to source locally .
You ca n't exactly run down to Home Depot or Lowes and pick one up .
The day will come though .
They 're already offering a small election of solar appliances ( like solar attic fans ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
    I've looked at doing this in a home, with group 8D batteries.
The price starts going up, when you start looking at inverters/charge controllers that can be grid tied.
    I laid out plans for using cheaper inverters (one per 15A circuit), and an independent charging system, but even still, the price is pretty high.
That idea was to convert homes one circuit at a time, until they were fully "green".
    The idea of charging the batteries when the rate is cheaper will unfortunately go away as these are adopted.
Right now, it's an insanely small amount of homes have their own battery room, and run off their own power during peak prices.
If it even approached say 10\%, the utilities would start charging accordingly.
    It's something I'd love to see.
If they made these affordable for most homes, you'd see alternative energy sources take off.
Ok, so I have batteries.
Now I can put on a solar array, and a wind generator.
I can supplement that with a generator (which most homes have, depending on your area).
You'd see priority go to solar, wind, grid, and generator.
The automatic inverter/charger/switches aren't exactly cheap though.
And, they're frequently difficult to source locally.
You can't exactly run down to Home Depot or Lowes and pick one up.
The day will come though.
They're already offering a small election of solar appliances (like solar attic fans).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544570</id>
	<title>Look out Sony!</title>
	<author>MiniMike</author>
	<datestamp>1261674900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>FTFA:<p><div class="quote"><p>Panasonic is going to create one of the hottest batteries available to date.</p></div><p>Wow, after all the exploding battery stories, I can't wait to have this model in my house.  Does anyone actually proofread  these articles?
</p><p>I'm not interested in storing energy for a week, but if I can have one of these hooked to a smart meter, and get a rate reduction for
allowing this battery to reduce demand from the grid during peak hours, I' d be very interested.  That battery could even be a lot smaller (and
cheaper) then the whole-week version.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>FTFA : Panasonic is going to create one of the hottest batteries available to date.Wow , after all the exploding battery stories , I ca n't wait to have this model in my house .
Does anyone actually proofread these articles ?
I 'm not interested in storing energy for a week , but if I can have one of these hooked to a smart meter , and get a rate reduction for allowing this battery to reduce demand from the grid during peak hours , I ' d be very interested .
That battery could even be a lot smaller ( and cheaper ) then the whole-week version .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FTFA:Panasonic is going to create one of the hottest batteries available to date.Wow, after all the exploding battery stories, I can't wait to have this model in my house.
Does anyone actually proofread  these articles?
I'm not interested in storing energy for a week, but if I can have one of these hooked to a smart meter, and get a rate reduction for
allowing this battery to reduce demand from the grid during peak hours, I' d be very interested.
That battery could even be a lot smaller (and
cheaper) then the whole-week version.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545574</id>
	<title>Re:Excellent! But...</title>
	<author>Kadin2048</author>
	<datestamp>1261681200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you would be rather silly to start investing in battery systems before getting rid of the electric heat. A compressor-based system of some sort -- whether an air or geothermal heat pump system -- would almost certainly net you more energy and cost savings, and use technology that exists right now.</p><p>Many US households are in your situation; they haven't really gotten after the "low-hanging fruit" that you could do without any additional technology.  There are a ton of houses with electric-resistive heat or terribly inefficient fossil-fuel furnaces, combined in many cases with poor insulation, that haven't been upgraded to currently-available (in some cases, last-generation) energy saving technologies.</p><p>The "whole house battery" is interesting, but it would be a pretty rare house in the US that has done everything else that would represent a more effective use of funds for energy/cost savings.  Most people would probably save more money with less investment just buy buying a new furnace or water heater.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you would be rather silly to start investing in battery systems before getting rid of the electric heat .
A compressor-based system of some sort -- whether an air or geothermal heat pump system -- would almost certainly net you more energy and cost savings , and use technology that exists right now.Many US households are in your situation ; they have n't really gotten after the " low-hanging fruit " that you could do without any additional technology .
There are a ton of houses with electric-resistive heat or terribly inefficient fossil-fuel furnaces , combined in many cases with poor insulation , that have n't been upgraded to currently-available ( in some cases , last-generation ) energy saving technologies.The " whole house battery " is interesting , but it would be a pretty rare house in the US that has done everything else that would represent a more effective use of funds for energy/cost savings .
Most people would probably save more money with less investment just buy buying a new furnace or water heater .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you would be rather silly to start investing in battery systems before getting rid of the electric heat.
A compressor-based system of some sort -- whether an air or geothermal heat pump system -- would almost certainly net you more energy and cost savings, and use technology that exists right now.Many US households are in your situation; they haven't really gotten after the "low-hanging fruit" that you could do without any additional technology.
There are a ton of houses with electric-resistive heat or terribly inefficient fossil-fuel furnaces, combined in many cases with poor insulation, that haven't been upgraded to currently-available (in some cases, last-generation) energy saving technologies.The "whole house battery" is interesting, but it would be a pretty rare house in the US that has done everything else that would represent a more effective use of funds for energy/cost savings.
Most people would probably save more money with less investment just buy buying a new furnace or water heater.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546656</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong technology</title>
	<author>Ungrounded Lightning</author>
	<datestamp>1261646400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unfortunately, nickel-iron batteries aren't all that efficient.  Their charging voltage is considerably higher than their discharging voltage and they also leak more stored power than, say, lead-acids.  They're not what you want for storing line power for occasional outages unless you can afford the cost of the lost power.</p><p>Upside is that they last virtually forever.  So if you have, say, a renewable-energy powered site with a considerable surplus of power on the average (such as micro-hydro that's not TOO micro), they can cut your long-term costs and maintenance requirements drastically.  But if you're paying for grid power or even more per KWHr for solar panels or windmills, you'll probably be ahead to size the sources a bit lower and replace lead-acids every decade or so.</p><p>Let's see what the lifetime of this gadget is if/when it arrives.  I understand the lifetime issue is a solved problem.  (One solution uses buckytubes for the substrate of the electrode that oxidizes and is responsible for older generation Lithium batteries' relatively short (and fixed) lifetimes.  The tubes only oxidize at the ends, and very slowly, so they last a LONG time.)</p><p>The new fast-charge Lithium designs are far more energy efficient than lead-acid.  If this is a decade-or-better lifetime device, isn't overpriced (fat chance with a Japanese company...), isn't displaced by something even better, and actually makes it to market, it could displace lead-acids for renewable-energy power storage and make additional sites cross the cost-breakeven barrier for RE versus grid power.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately , nickel-iron batteries are n't all that efficient .
Their charging voltage is considerably higher than their discharging voltage and they also leak more stored power than , say , lead-acids .
They 're not what you want for storing line power for occasional outages unless you can afford the cost of the lost power.Upside is that they last virtually forever .
So if you have , say , a renewable-energy powered site with a considerable surplus of power on the average ( such as micro-hydro that 's not TOO micro ) , they can cut your long-term costs and maintenance requirements drastically .
But if you 're paying for grid power or even more per KWHr for solar panels or windmills , you 'll probably be ahead to size the sources a bit lower and replace lead-acids every decade or so.Let 's see what the lifetime of this gadget is if/when it arrives .
I understand the lifetime issue is a solved problem .
( One solution uses buckytubes for the substrate of the electrode that oxidizes and is responsible for older generation Lithium batteries ' relatively short ( and fixed ) lifetimes .
The tubes only oxidize at the ends , and very slowly , so they last a LONG time .
) The new fast-charge Lithium designs are far more energy efficient than lead-acid .
If this is a decade-or-better lifetime device , is n't overpriced ( fat chance with a Japanese company... ) , is n't displaced by something even better , and actually makes it to market , it could displace lead-acids for renewable-energy power storage and make additional sites cross the cost-breakeven barrier for RE versus grid power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately, nickel-iron batteries aren't all that efficient.
Their charging voltage is considerably higher than their discharging voltage and they also leak more stored power than, say, lead-acids.
They're not what you want for storing line power for occasional outages unless you can afford the cost of the lost power.Upside is that they last virtually forever.
So if you have, say, a renewable-energy powered site with a considerable surplus of power on the average (such as micro-hydro that's not TOO micro), they can cut your long-term costs and maintenance requirements drastically.
But if you're paying for grid power or even more per KWHr for solar panels or windmills, you'll probably be ahead to size the sources a bit lower and replace lead-acids every decade or so.Let's see what the lifetime of this gadget is if/when it arrives.
I understand the lifetime issue is a solved problem.
(One solution uses buckytubes for the substrate of the electrode that oxidizes and is responsible for older generation Lithium batteries' relatively short (and fixed) lifetimes.
The tubes only oxidize at the ends, and very slowly, so they last a LONG time.
)The new fast-charge Lithium designs are far more energy efficient than lead-acid.
If this is a decade-or-better lifetime device, isn't overpriced (fat chance with a Japanese company...), isn't displaced by something even better, and actually makes it to market, it could displace lead-acids for renewable-energy power storage and make additional sites cross the cost-breakeven barrier for RE versus grid power.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544890</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30551472</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>amorsen</author>
	<datestamp>1261764000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If it's just (residential) freezers full of food, insurance is a lot cheaper than backup power. At least here. Most people will only experience that at most once in their lives, so it's cheap to insure against.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it 's just ( residential ) freezers full of food , insurance is a lot cheaper than backup power .
At least here .
Most people will only experience that at most once in their lives , so it 's cheap to insure against .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it's just (residential) freezers full of food, insurance is a lot cheaper than backup power.
At least here.
Most people will only experience that at most once in their lives, so it's cheap to insure against.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544794</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544856</id>
	<title>Useful for mountain cabin</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261676460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This could be useful for our hut that has no electricity. Charge it during daytimes using solar-panels and hopefully it will buffer enough for it to be usefull.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This could be useful for our hut that has no electricity .
Charge it during daytimes using solar-panels and hopefully it will buffer enough for it to be usefull .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This could be useful for our hut that has no electricity.
Charge it during daytimes using solar-panels and hopefully it will buffer enough for it to be usefull.
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544514</id>
	<title>But what about the massive environmental damage!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261674480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We already have a dire shortage of earthworms, without which life on Earth would be impossible. Now Panasonics wants to kill all the earthworms in America by leeching dangerous lithium toxins into the soil for centuries. This is why science is bad for children and humans and we need to go back to nature and live in harmony with the worms and other creatures.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We already have a dire shortage of earthworms , without which life on Earth would be impossible .
Now Panasonics wants to kill all the earthworms in America by leeching dangerous lithium toxins into the soil for centuries .
This is why science is bad for children and humans and we need to go back to nature and live in harmony with the worms and other creatures .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We already have a dire shortage of earthworms, without which life on Earth would be impossible.
Now Panasonics wants to kill all the earthworms in America by leeching dangerous lithium toxins into the soil for centuries.
This is why science is bad for children and humans and we need to go back to nature and live in harmony with the worms and other creatures.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30547382</id>
	<title>Re:Tense</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261653480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not to mention the conversion losses in the charging and storage system. Saving money by charging battaries when the rates are low assumes that you are going to recover all of that power when draining the battaries. There is wasted power in the charging circuit, power loss in the storage system (battaries) and conversion losses in converting the DC power in the battaries back into AC power to run the household. Unless there is some wild difference in peak vs off-peak power costs, there could be negligable or even negative savings (costs more) once the stored power is running the household.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to mention the conversion losses in the charging and storage system .
Saving money by charging battaries when the rates are low assumes that you are going to recover all of that power when draining the battaries .
There is wasted power in the charging circuit , power loss in the storage system ( battaries ) and conversion losses in converting the DC power in the battaries back into AC power to run the household .
Unless there is some wild difference in peak vs off-peak power costs , there could be negligable or even negative savings ( costs more ) once the stored power is running the household .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to mention the conversion losses in the charging and storage system.
Saving money by charging battaries when the rates are low assumes that you are going to recover all of that power when draining the battaries.
There is wasted power in the charging circuit, power loss in the storage system (battaries) and conversion losses in converting the DC power in the battaries back into AC power to run the household.
Unless there is some wild difference in peak vs off-peak power costs, there could be negligable or even negative savings (costs more) once the stored power is running the household.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544530</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30548306</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>JoeMerchant</author>
	<datestamp>1261662540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
I lived in a house in Miami for 10 years, the first 6 years the power NEVER went out, then we had a minor hurricane, the brigade of fix-it men came in and we had power back in about 12 hours, but they jury-rigged it somehow, power went out every time a pelican sneezed for years after that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I lived in a house in Miami for 10 years , the first 6 years the power NEVER went out , then we had a minor hurricane , the brigade of fix-it men came in and we had power back in about 12 hours , but they jury-rigged it somehow , power went out every time a pelican sneezed for years after that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I lived in a house in Miami for 10 years, the first 6 years the power NEVER went out, then we had a minor hurricane, the brigade of fix-it men came in and we had power back in about 12 hours, but they jury-rigged it somehow, power went out every time a pelican sneezed for years after that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544794</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546234</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261685880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The active material in Li-ion batteries isn't metallic lithium, but lithium carbonate - A 2007 article from eworld.com claims that 1.4kg of lithium carbonate is required per kWh of capacity. For 100kWh, this gives us ~140kg per home. This article takes some information from a 2000 report from Argonne National Labs, so these numbers may be conservative.</p><p>A 2006 report on Lithium claims the naturally available lithium carbontate reserve base to be 58MT. Metallic lithium can be converted to Li2CO3, just multiply the weight by (3*2+6+8*3)/(3*2) = 6, which adds another 66MT of lithium carbonate.</p><p>So the simple estimate goes up somewhere in the ballpark of 880 million homes at 100kWh each.</p><p><a href="http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1180&amp;first=6240&amp;end=6239" title="evworld.com" rel="nofollow">http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1180&amp;first=6240&amp;end=6239</a> [evworld.com]<br><a href="http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/149.pdf" title="anl.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/149.pdf</a> [anl.gov]<br><a href="http://www.evworld.com/library/lithium\_shortage.pdf" title="evworld.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.evworld.com/library/lithium\_shortage.pdf</a> [evworld.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The active material in Li-ion batteries is n't metallic lithium , but lithium carbonate - A 2007 article from eworld.com claims that 1.4kg of lithium carbonate is required per kWh of capacity .
For 100kWh , this gives us ~ 140kg per home .
This article takes some information from a 2000 report from Argonne National Labs , so these numbers may be conservative.A 2006 report on Lithium claims the naturally available lithium carbontate reserve base to be 58MT .
Metallic lithium can be converted to Li2CO3 , just multiply the weight by ( 3 * 2 + 6 + 8 * 3 ) / ( 3 * 2 ) = 6 , which adds another 66MT of lithium carbonate.So the simple estimate goes up somewhere in the ballpark of 880 million homes at 100kWh each.http : //evworld.com/article.cfm ? storyid = 1180&amp;first = 6240&amp;end = 6239 [ evworld.com ] http : //www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/149.pdf [ anl.gov ] http : //www.evworld.com/library/lithium \ _shortage.pdf [ evworld.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The active material in Li-ion batteries isn't metallic lithium, but lithium carbonate - A 2007 article from eworld.com claims that 1.4kg of lithium carbonate is required per kWh of capacity.
For 100kWh, this gives us ~140kg per home.
This article takes some information from a 2000 report from Argonne National Labs, so these numbers may be conservative.A 2006 report on Lithium claims the naturally available lithium carbontate reserve base to be 58MT.
Metallic lithium can be converted to Li2CO3, just multiply the weight by (3*2+6+8*3)/(3*2) = 6, which adds another 66MT of lithium carbonate.So the simple estimate goes up somewhere in the ballpark of 880 million homes at 100kWh each.http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1180&amp;first=6240&amp;end=6239 [evworld.com]http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/149.pdf [anl.gov]http://www.evworld.com/library/lithium\_shortage.pdf [evworld.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546720</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>DamonHD</author>
	<datestamp>1261647240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1) For our family ~40kWh would cover our electricity for a week (we heat with mains natural gas though).</p><p>2) Quite a lot of any given battery is unlikely to be just one of the reagents by weight!</p><p>3) Some rechargable Zinc-air batteries of similar or better energy density are on the horizon, FYI...</p><p>Rgds</p><p>Damon</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) For our family ~ 40kWh would cover our electricity for a week ( we heat with mains natural gas though ) .2 ) Quite a lot of any given battery is unlikely to be just one of the reagents by weight ! 3 ) Some rechargable Zinc-air batteries of similar or better energy density are on the horizon , FYI...RgdsDamon</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) For our family ~40kWh would cover our electricity for a week (we heat with mains natural gas though).2) Quite a lot of any given battery is unlikely to be just one of the reagents by weight!3) Some rechargable Zinc-air batteries of similar or better energy density are on the horizon, FYI...RgdsDamon</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544594</id>
	<title>Panasonic, another great American company</title>
	<author>Jackie\_Chan\_Fan</author>
	<datestamp>1261675020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Panasonic, another great American company leading the way to the future!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Panasonic , another great American company leading the way to the future !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Panasonic, another great American company leading the way to the future!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544630</id>
	<title>Re:But what about the massive environmental damage</title>
	<author>MiniMike</author>
	<datestamp>1261675260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This is why science is bad for children and humans and we need to go back to nature and live in harmony with the worms and other creatures.</p></div><p>No, but it does show that some children are bad at science.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is why science is bad for children and humans and we need to go back to nature and live in harmony with the worms and other creatures.No , but it does show that some children are bad at science .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is why science is bad for children and humans and we need to go back to nature and live in harmony with the worms and other creatures.No, but it does show that some children are bad at science.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30550388</id>
	<title>Re:But what about the massive environmental damage</title>
	<author>For a Free Internet</author>
	<datestamp>1261746720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can tell by the fact that you don't know how to spell with apostrophes that you are an Italian islamo-communist terrorist agent bent on discrediting the <b> <i>truth</i> </b> so that America will be doomed to extinction! You can't fool me because I am a genius, and I am way way way smarter than anyone you know.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can tell by the fact that you do n't know how to spell with apostrophes that you are an Italian islamo-communist terrorist agent bent on discrediting the truth so that America will be doomed to extinction !
You ca n't fool me because I am a genius , and I am way way way smarter than anyone you know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can tell by the fact that you don't know how to spell with apostrophes that you are an Italian islamo-communist terrorist agent bent on discrediting the  truth  so that America will be doomed to extinction!
You can't fool me because I am a genius, and I am way way way smarter than anyone you know.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545394</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544756</id>
	<title>Re:Tense</title>
	<author>HeckRuler</author>
	<datestamp>1261675860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>use-case scenario?</htmltext>
<tokenext>use-case scenario ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>use-case scenario?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544530</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544900</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>DemoLiter3</author>
	<datestamp>1261676760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, this battery is supposed to be able to power an entire one-family home for a week. By a conservative estimate that would be around 100 kWh of capacity.<br>Modern Lithium-Ion batteries have specific capacity of 100-160 Wh/kg, but let's say Panasonic manages to extend this and will deliver 200 Wh/kg. Let's assume the half of this weight is Lithium, which puts the total Lithium weight for such battery at ~1000kg.<br>With a total world's estimated Lithium reserves of ~11000000 tonnes we can outfit around 11 million homes with such batteries before we run out of Lithium. Sounds like a solid plan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , this battery is supposed to be able to power an entire one-family home for a week .
By a conservative estimate that would be around 100 kWh of capacity.Modern Lithium-Ion batteries have specific capacity of 100-160 Wh/kg , but let 's say Panasonic manages to extend this and will deliver 200 Wh/kg .
Let 's assume the half of this weight is Lithium , which puts the total Lithium weight for such battery at ~ 1000kg.With a total world 's estimated Lithium reserves of ~ 11000000 tonnes we can outfit around 11 million homes with such batteries before we run out of Lithium .
Sounds like a solid plan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, this battery is supposed to be able to power an entire one-family home for a week.
By a conservative estimate that would be around 100 kWh of capacity.Modern Lithium-Ion batteries have specific capacity of 100-160 Wh/kg, but let's say Panasonic manages to extend this and will deliver 200 Wh/kg.
Let's assume the half of this weight is Lithium, which puts the total Lithium weight for such battery at ~1000kg.With a total world's estimated Lithium reserves of ~11000000 tonnes we can outfit around 11 million homes with such batteries before we run out of Lithium.
Sounds like a solid plan.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544850</id>
	<title>Battery maintenance</title>
	<author>x\_hexdump\_x</author>
	<datestamp>1261676460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Large UPS are common for data centers.  But they are expensive and time consuming to maintain.  In a data center the cost and time are justified.  But for a home I would question the value.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Large UPS are common for data centers .
But they are expensive and time consuming to maintain .
In a data center the cost and time are justified .
But for a home I would question the value .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Large UPS are common for data centers.
But they are expensive and time consuming to maintain.
In a data center the cost and time are justified.
But for a home I would question the value.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30547240</id>
	<title>What is the name of this technology?</title>
	<author>OrangeTide</author>
	<datestamp>1261652160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I propose a common name, week batteries, that really expresses the value and utility of this new technology.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I propose a common name , week batteries , that really expresses the value and utility of this new technology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I propose a common name, week batteries, that really expresses the value and utility of this new technology.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30549826</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>fyngyrz</author>
	<datestamp>1261733220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>
I've lived in south africa most of my life, and there were only power outages where Iived starting about a year/a year and a half, ago. Since moving to the UK I've not had any power outages. why is American electricity so unstable?
</i></p></div>
</blockquote><p>
One important factor:
</p><ul>
<li> UK square miles: 93,788</li><li> SA square miles: 470,693</li><li> US square  miles: 6,105,984</li></ul></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've lived in south africa most of my life , and there were only power outages where Iived starting about a year/a year and a half , ago .
Since moving to the UK I 've not had any power outages .
why is American electricity so unstable ?
One important factor : UK square miles : 93,788 SA square miles : 470,693 US square miles : 6,105,984</tokentext>
<sentencetext> 
I've lived in south africa most of my life, and there were only power outages where Iived starting about a year/a year and a half, ago.
Since moving to the UK I've not had any power outages.
why is American electricity so unstable?
One important factor:

 UK square miles: 93,788 SA square miles: 470,693 US square  miles: 6,105,984
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546692</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30556592</id>
	<title>The actual announcement comes out. - no hype</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1261850460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
After the crap articles in "gizmo" rags, the <a href="http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art\_ID=22367" title="japancorp.net">actual announcement from Panasonic was released on December 25.</a> [japancorp.net] <i>
"Panasonic Corporation today announced the development of two new 18650-type (18 mm in diameter, 65 mm in height) high-capacity lithium-ion battery cells[1] for use in laptop computers and environmentally-friendly energy technologies. The company boosted the capacity of 18650-type battery cells, which are widely used in laptops, by improving electrode materials. By improving the positive electrode, it has achieved the 3.4 Ah cell which offers 20 percent greater capacity than the current 2.9 Ah model. The 3.4 Ah cell will be mass produced in fiscal 2012 ending in March 2012. The 4.0 Ah cell, which has 30 percent greater capacity compared to the 2.9 Ah cell, uses a next generation electrode material, a silicon based alloy for the negative electrode, substituting carbon. The 4.0 Ah cell will be mass produced in fiscal 2013 ending in March 2013."</i>
</p><p>
So that's it.  Lithium-ion batteries with 20\% more capacity in 2012, and another 17\% for 2013, or a 38\% improvement over the next 3 years.  Nice for laptops, very helpful for electric cars.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After the crap articles in " gizmo " rags , the actual announcement from Panasonic was released on December 25 .
[ japancorp.net ] " Panasonic Corporation today announced the development of two new 18650-type ( 18 mm in diameter , 65 mm in height ) high-capacity lithium-ion battery cells [ 1 ] for use in laptop computers and environmentally-friendly energy technologies .
The company boosted the capacity of 18650-type battery cells , which are widely used in laptops , by improving electrode materials .
By improving the positive electrode , it has achieved the 3.4 Ah cell which offers 20 percent greater capacity than the current 2.9 Ah model .
The 3.4 Ah cell will be mass produced in fiscal 2012 ending in March 2012 .
The 4.0 Ah cell , which has 30 percent greater capacity compared to the 2.9 Ah cell , uses a next generation electrode material , a silicon based alloy for the negative electrode , substituting carbon .
The 4.0 Ah cell will be mass produced in fiscal 2013 ending in March 2013 .
" So that 's it .
Lithium-ion batteries with 20 \ % more capacity in 2012 , and another 17 \ % for 2013 , or a 38 \ % improvement over the next 3 years .
Nice for laptops , very helpful for electric cars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
After the crap articles in "gizmo" rags, the actual announcement from Panasonic was released on December 25.
[japancorp.net] 
"Panasonic Corporation today announced the development of two new 18650-type (18 mm in diameter, 65 mm in height) high-capacity lithium-ion battery cells[1] for use in laptop computers and environmentally-friendly energy technologies.
The company boosted the capacity of 18650-type battery cells, which are widely used in laptops, by improving electrode materials.
By improving the positive electrode, it has achieved the 3.4 Ah cell which offers 20 percent greater capacity than the current 2.9 Ah model.
The 3.4 Ah cell will be mass produced in fiscal 2012 ending in March 2012.
The 4.0 Ah cell, which has 30 percent greater capacity compared to the 2.9 Ah cell, uses a next generation electrode material, a silicon based alloy for the negative electrode, substituting carbon.
The 4.0 Ah cell will be mass produced in fiscal 2013 ending in March 2013.
"

So that's it.
Lithium-ion batteries with 20\% more capacity in 2012, and another 17\% for 2013, or a 38\% improvement over the next 3 years.
Nice for laptops, very helpful for electric cars.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544686</id>
	<title>Re:Uhh....lithium ion?</title>
	<author>MeatBag PussRocket</author>
	<datestamp>1261675560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>if its for home use i dont see why the form facto is so big of a deal. i understand space constraints in JP but in the US anyway, a battery the size of a trashcan could probably be stored in a suburban garage with no concern whatsoever. i would think that even in Japan you could get away with a battery the size of a microwave oven without too much hassle. in these instances we would be talking about kWh rates that would be sufficiently large to make a significant impact on global warming. yes you heard me right global warming. peak usage at power plants could be streamlined dramatically. this would also decrease load on power plants giving them longer uptime, and you could probably see cost for electricity drop as a by product.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if its for home use i dont see why the form facto is so big of a deal .
i understand space constraints in JP but in the US anyway , a battery the size of a trashcan could probably be stored in a suburban garage with no concern whatsoever .
i would think that even in Japan you could get away with a battery the size of a microwave oven without too much hassle .
in these instances we would be talking about kWh rates that would be sufficiently large to make a significant impact on global warming .
yes you heard me right global warming .
peak usage at power plants could be streamlined dramatically .
this would also decrease load on power plants giving them longer uptime , and you could probably see cost for electricity drop as a by product .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if its for home use i dont see why the form facto is so big of a deal.
i understand space constraints in JP but in the US anyway, a battery the size of a trashcan could probably be stored in a suburban garage with no concern whatsoever.
i would think that even in Japan you could get away with a battery the size of a microwave oven without too much hassle.
in these instances we would be talking about kWh rates that would be sufficiently large to make a significant impact on global warming.
yes you heard me right global warming.
peak usage at power plants could be streamlined dramatically.
this would also decrease load on power plants giving them longer uptime, and you could probably see cost for electricity drop as a by product.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544526</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544662</id>
	<title>The advantage of lithium is energy density.</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1261675380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The disadvantage is cost.  There are many battery technologies more suitable for this application than lithium.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The disadvantage is cost .
There are many battery technologies more suitable for this application than lithium .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The disadvantage is cost.
There are many battery technologies more suitable for this application than lithium.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544608</id>
	<title>a weeks worth of power In 'Japan'</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261675080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The average japanese household uses about 1/3rd the power of the average north american household.  That works out to 11.7 kWh/day or 82 kWh a week.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The average japanese household uses about 1/3rd the power of the average north american household .
That works out to 11.7 kWh/day or 82 kWh a week .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The average japanese household uses about 1/3rd the power of the average north american household.
That works out to 11.7 kWh/day or 82 kWh a week.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544480</id>
	<title>Boom.</title>
	<author>ScrewMaster</author>
	<datestamp>1261674300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't trust lithium-ion technology enough to want something with that much capacity in my basement. Wouldn't want my house to look like <a href="http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/triple-play/att-uverse-batteries-exploding.asp" title="tmcnet.com" rel="nofollow">this</a> [tmcnet.com]
<br> <br>
I have a thousand watt-hour battery that runs my sump pum during a power failure, but it's lead-acid. They've been around for a loooong time and are pretty damn stable (even so, this one is in a concrete-walled sump room.) Lithium-ions have a ways to go before they can be considered as trustworthy, and their higher energy density just makes them that much more dangerous during a catastrophic failure. Yet another reason why I'd never buy a hybrid vehicle. The idea of sitting atop a massive lithium-ion battery pack makes me far more nervous than I've ever been about a tank of gasoline.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't trust lithium-ion technology enough to want something with that much capacity in my basement .
Would n't want my house to look like this [ tmcnet.com ] I have a thousand watt-hour battery that runs my sump pum during a power failure , but it 's lead-acid .
They 've been around for a loooong time and are pretty damn stable ( even so , this one is in a concrete-walled sump room .
) Lithium-ions have a ways to go before they can be considered as trustworthy , and their higher energy density just makes them that much more dangerous during a catastrophic failure .
Yet another reason why I 'd never buy a hybrid vehicle .
The idea of sitting atop a massive lithium-ion battery pack makes me far more nervous than I 've ever been about a tank of gasoline .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't trust lithium-ion technology enough to want something with that much capacity in my basement.
Wouldn't want my house to look like this [tmcnet.com]
 
I have a thousand watt-hour battery that runs my sump pum during a power failure, but it's lead-acid.
They've been around for a loooong time and are pretty damn stable (even so, this one is in a concrete-walled sump room.
) Lithium-ions have a ways to go before they can be considered as trustworthy, and their higher energy density just makes them that much more dangerous during a catastrophic failure.
Yet another reason why I'd never buy a hybrid vehicle.
The idea of sitting atop a massive lithium-ion battery pack makes me far more nervous than I've ever been about a tank of gasoline.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544526</id>
	<title>Uhh....lithium ion?</title>
	<author>ZosX</author>
	<datestamp>1261674540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At room temperature and a full charge LI lasts like a whole 2 years before battery life starts to seriously degrade, unless there has been some breakthrough in LI technology that I was unaware of. Keeping it 75\% charged or so maximizes battery life, but who would want a partially charged battery when the power goes out for 3 days in the dead of winter? Also what about cost? I don't really see this as a cost saving measure, but I do understand the importance of having a battery solution when you are generating your own power from inconsistent natural sources.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At room temperature and a full charge LI lasts like a whole 2 years before battery life starts to seriously degrade , unless there has been some breakthrough in LI technology that I was unaware of .
Keeping it 75 \ % charged or so maximizes battery life , but who would want a partially charged battery when the power goes out for 3 days in the dead of winter ?
Also what about cost ?
I do n't really see this as a cost saving measure , but I do understand the importance of having a battery solution when you are generating your own power from inconsistent natural sources .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At room temperature and a full charge LI lasts like a whole 2 years before battery life starts to seriously degrade, unless there has been some breakthrough in LI technology that I was unaware of.
Keeping it 75\% charged or so maximizes battery life, but who would want a partially charged battery when the power goes out for 3 days in the dead of winter?
Also what about cost?
I don't really see this as a cost saving measure, but I do understand the importance of having a battery solution when you are generating your own power from inconsistent natural sources.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544774</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>Mortaegus</author>
	<datestamp>1261675980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The idea really isn't to backup your power during an outage.  The idea is to store power collected with on-site measures such as solar/wind and use the battery during times when these local power measure's aren't supplying enough.  Another point would be to purchase power from the electric company when demand is low, and store for use when demand is high.  Power companies could signal that demand is too high and the load is about cause problems, and people could switch to their reserves, in order to prevent damage to the grid.  (Such as happens frequently when everybody runs their air coolers in the summer).

I think that this would be a good measure to prevent the problems that cause blackouts, but I don't think it should, in all cases, be the consumer putting forth the effort to fix things.  (At least in the US they need fixing).  The power companies should put a few of these in the ground, and THEY can activate them when the need is there, rather than asking customers to handle it for them.  Else they can damn well charge us a lot less than 60 cents per kilowatt hour.  (Newark).</htmltext>
<tokenext>The idea really is n't to backup your power during an outage .
The idea is to store power collected with on-site measures such as solar/wind and use the battery during times when these local power measure 's are n't supplying enough .
Another point would be to purchase power from the electric company when demand is low , and store for use when demand is high .
Power companies could signal that demand is too high and the load is about cause problems , and people could switch to their reserves , in order to prevent damage to the grid .
( Such as happens frequently when everybody runs their air coolers in the summer ) .
I think that this would be a good measure to prevent the problems that cause blackouts , but I do n't think it should , in all cases , be the consumer putting forth the effort to fix things .
( At least in the US they need fixing ) .
The power companies should put a few of these in the ground , and THEY can activate them when the need is there , rather than asking customers to handle it for them .
Else they can damn well charge us a lot less than 60 cents per kilowatt hour .
( Newark ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The idea really isn't to backup your power during an outage.
The idea is to store power collected with on-site measures such as solar/wind and use the battery during times when these local power measure's aren't supplying enough.
Another point would be to purchase power from the electric company when demand is low, and store for use when demand is high.
Power companies could signal that demand is too high and the load is about cause problems, and people could switch to their reserves, in order to prevent damage to the grid.
(Such as happens frequently when everybody runs their air coolers in the summer).
I think that this would be a good measure to prevent the problems that cause blackouts, but I don't think it should, in all cases, be the consumer putting forth the effort to fix things.
(At least in the US they need fixing).
The power companies should put a few of these in the ground, and THEY can activate them when the need is there, rather than asking customers to handle it for them.
Else they can damn well charge us a lot less than 60 cents per kilowatt hour.
(Newark).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30547770</id>
	<title>nuclear?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261656540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I seem to remember Mitsubishi announcing a self-contained, maintenance-free, appartment-block scaled reactor a couple of years ago. Sounds like a much better plan to me, if you get over the nuclear scare.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I seem to remember Mitsubishi announcing a self-contained , maintenance-free , appartment-block scaled reactor a couple of years ago .
Sounds like a much better plan to me , if you get over the nuclear scare .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I seem to remember Mitsubishi announcing a self-contained, maintenance-free, appartment-block scaled reactor a couple of years ago.
Sounds like a much better plan to me, if you get over the nuclear scare.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544922</id>
	<title>Re:What a horrible articlen - better source</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1261676880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
<i>The page linked to is an ad laden (carefully selected related items, yeah right) mess that has this third or fourth hand. </i>
</p><p>
True.  The source is a <a href="http://www.businessweek.com/news/2009-12-23/panasonic-said-to-have-made-higher-capacity-battery-update2-.html" title="businessweek.com">badly written Bloomberg story</a> [businessweek.com] which says the new battery has a capacity of "3.4 amperes per hour".  I wrote to the reporter pointing out the meaninglessness of that number. The useful numbers for battery technologies are $/KwH and Kg/KwH, and they don't have those.  The only useful piece of information in the story is that Panasonic will make a real announcement tomorrow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The page linked to is an ad laden ( carefully selected related items , yeah right ) mess that has this third or fourth hand .
True. The source is a badly written Bloomberg story [ businessweek.com ] which says the new battery has a capacity of " 3.4 amperes per hour " .
I wrote to the reporter pointing out the meaninglessness of that number .
The useful numbers for battery technologies are $ /KwH and Kg/KwH , and they do n't have those .
The only useful piece of information in the story is that Panasonic will make a real announcement tomorrow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
The page linked to is an ad laden (carefully selected related items, yeah right) mess that has this third or fourth hand.
True.  The source is a badly written Bloomberg story [businessweek.com] which says the new battery has a capacity of "3.4 amperes per hour".
I wrote to the reporter pointing out the meaninglessness of that number.
The useful numbers for battery technologies are $/KwH and Kg/KwH, and they don't have those.
The only useful piece of information in the story is that Panasonic will make a real announcement tomorrow.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545972</id>
	<title>Re:Other considerations</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1261683600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It would be possible with standard deep cycle lead acid batteries, but than you have to have climate control for your batteries above and beyond that proposed, and than your dedicating a good chunk of floorspace to batteries (You can't stack them because of heat buildup when discharging).</p></div></blockquote><p>Nonsense.  The Central Offices you refer to stack their batteries.  I've seen many instances of deep cycle setups for off-the-grid power installations where the batteries are stacked...  And the lead-acid backup batteries of US submarines (far bigger than any you're likely to see for home installation) air 'climate controlled' with just a fan.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It would be possible with standard deep cycle lead acid batteries , but than you have to have climate control for your batteries above and beyond that proposed , and than your dedicating a good chunk of floorspace to batteries ( You ca n't stack them because of heat buildup when discharging ) .Nonsense .
The Central Offices you refer to stack their batteries .
I 've seen many instances of deep cycle setups for off-the-grid power installations where the batteries are stacked... And the lead-acid backup batteries of US submarines ( far bigger than any you 're likely to see for home installation ) air 'climate controlled ' with just a fan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would be possible with standard deep cycle lead acid batteries, but than you have to have climate control for your batteries above and beyond that proposed, and than your dedicating a good chunk of floorspace to batteries (You can't stack them because of heat buildup when discharging).Nonsense.
The Central Offices you refer to stack their batteries.
I've seen many instances of deep cycle setups for off-the-grid power installations where the batteries are stacked...  And the lead-acid backup batteries of US submarines (far bigger than any you're likely to see for home installation) air 'climate controlled' with just a fan.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544772</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544568</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>jabbathewocket</author>
	<datestamp>1261674900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not to mention the size and cost of such a setup..  I would think that they would sell far more batteries (I am guessing this is the idea behind it from panasonic as a battery maker) would be to push a more "whole house UPS/power conditioner" type system..

a week of power? at a huge cost? for that one natural disaster where the rest of our backups dont work and we are left screwed? At that point a week is not enough<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. or it is way too much.. (avg power outage across the entire US is 214 mins per year(70 in the UK. 53 mins in france, 6 mins in japan! data taken from <a href="http://www.emerson.com/smallbusiness/docs/power\_outage\_stats.pdf" title="emerson.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.emerson.com/smallbusiness/docs/power\_outage\_stats.pdf</a> [emerson.com])

I would think that most homes could do with a few hours of backup power (and many would pay just for the benefits of not having flashing clocks all over the house!)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to mention the size and cost of such a setup.. I would think that they would sell far more batteries ( I am guessing this is the idea behind it from panasonic as a battery maker ) would be to push a more " whole house UPS/power conditioner " type system. . a week of power ?
at a huge cost ?
for that one natural disaster where the rest of our backups dont work and we are left screwed ?
At that point a week is not enough .. or it is way too much.. ( avg power outage across the entire US is 214 mins per year ( 70 in the UK .
53 mins in france , 6 mins in japan !
data taken from http : //www.emerson.com/smallbusiness/docs/power \ _outage \ _stats.pdf [ emerson.com ] ) I would think that most homes could do with a few hours of backup power ( and many would pay just for the benefits of not having flashing clocks all over the house !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to mention the size and cost of such a setup..  I would think that they would sell far more batteries (I am guessing this is the idea behind it from panasonic as a battery maker) would be to push a more "whole house UPS/power conditioner" type system..

a week of power?
at a huge cost?
for that one natural disaster where the rest of our backups dont work and we are left screwed?
At that point a week is not enough .. or it is way too much.. (avg power outage across the entire US is 214 mins per year(70 in the UK.
53 mins in france, 6 mins in japan!
data taken from http://www.emerson.com/smallbusiness/docs/power\_outage\_stats.pdf [emerson.com])

I would think that most homes could do with a few hours of backup power (and many would pay just for the benefits of not having flashing clocks all over the house!
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544480</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30553178</id>
	<title>Re:Other considerations</title>
	<author>petermgreen</author>
	<datestamp>1261744680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>There are no areas where the cost of energy is consistent all day and night and year round(is anyone using 100\% geothermal or nuclear yet?). If you think you live in such an area then you are at one end of an energy subsidization deal.</i><br>While that is true in a sense it isn't a deliberate subsidy, it's an artifact of the system and one that is seen in almost every electricity market. Some markets have two-rate tarrifs available but (at least in the UK) these only tend to be used for properties with storage heaters (electric heaters that heat up during the night and release thier heat during the day).</p><p>Time-of-day based metering is starting to appear but there are a lot of issues to deal with before it sees wide deployment such as how to structure the tarrifs in a way that both encourages people to move thier power use to off-peak times and makes it reasonably feasible for people to predict the cost of thier electricty and compare suppliers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are no areas where the cost of energy is consistent all day and night and year round ( is anyone using 100 \ % geothermal or nuclear yet ? ) .
If you think you live in such an area then you are at one end of an energy subsidization deal.While that is true in a sense it is n't a deliberate subsidy , it 's an artifact of the system and one that is seen in almost every electricity market .
Some markets have two-rate tarrifs available but ( at least in the UK ) these only tend to be used for properties with storage heaters ( electric heaters that heat up during the night and release thier heat during the day ) .Time-of-day based metering is starting to appear but there are a lot of issues to deal with before it sees wide deployment such as how to structure the tarrifs in a way that both encourages people to move thier power use to off-peak times and makes it reasonably feasible for people to predict the cost of thier electricty and compare suppliers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are no areas where the cost of energy is consistent all day and night and year round(is anyone using 100\% geothermal or nuclear yet?).
If you think you live in such an area then you are at one end of an energy subsidization deal.While that is true in a sense it isn't a deliberate subsidy, it's an artifact of the system and one that is seen in almost every electricity market.
Some markets have two-rate tarrifs available but (at least in the UK) these only tend to be used for properties with storage heaters (electric heaters that heat up during the night and release thier heat during the day).Time-of-day based metering is starting to appear but there are a lot of issues to deal with before it sees wide deployment such as how to structure the tarrifs in a way that both encourages people to move thier power use to off-peak times and makes it reasonably feasible for people to predict the cost of thier electricty and compare suppliers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545924</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544530</id>
	<title>Tense</title>
	<author>Dunbal</author>
	<datestamp>1261674540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We go from the future:</p><p>"Panasonic has announced plans to create 'home batteries."</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; That is, the batteries don't exist yet.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; BUT:</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Also, you can buy energy when it is cheapest [<i>only there's nowhere to store it at the moment</i>], and don't need to worry about power outages anymore [<i>well actually you still have to worry, because they haven't actually invented the battery yet</i>].</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Who wrote this? I see a brilliant future for you writing prospectuses for investment bank companies. This is just hype. I for one will not be buying the $150k batteries that need special zoning permissions and need to be replaced every 3 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We go from the future : " Panasonic has announced plans to create 'home batteries .
"       That is , the batteries do n't exist yet .
      BUT :       Also , you can buy energy when it is cheapest [ only there 's nowhere to store it at the moment ] , and do n't need to worry about power outages anymore [ well actually you still have to worry , because they have n't actually invented the battery yet ] .
      Who wrote this ?
I see a brilliant future for you writing prospectuses for investment bank companies .
This is just hype .
I for one will not be buying the $ 150k batteries that need special zoning permissions and need to be replaced every 3 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We go from the future:"Panasonic has announced plans to create 'home batteries.
"
      That is, the batteries don't exist yet.
      BUT:
      Also, you can buy energy when it is cheapest [only there's nowhere to store it at the moment], and don't need to worry about power outages anymore [well actually you still have to worry, because they haven't actually invented the battery yet].
      Who wrote this?
I see a brilliant future for you writing prospectuses for investment bank companies.
This is just hype.
I for one will not be buying the $150k batteries that need special zoning permissions and need to be replaced every 3 years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544544</id>
	<title>Saving money</title>
	<author>DreamsAreOkToo</author>
	<datestamp>1261674720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, I can save pennies off my electricity!  Now, how many centuries does it take for the battery to pay itself off?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , I can save pennies off my electricity !
Now , how many centuries does it take for the battery to pay itself off ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, I can save pennies off my electricity!
Now, how many centuries does it take for the battery to pay itself off?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544974</id>
	<title>Makes more sense for utility to use these</title>
	<author>presidenteloco</author>
	<datestamp>1261677300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For the purpose of storing intermittent wind and solar power,<br>the electric utility companies could use mass installations of<br>these batteries. Assuming they don't have hydro dams to<br>run in reverse using the wind and solar, that is.</p><p>Just like it doesn't actually make sense for everyone on your block<br>to own a lawnmower or circular saw or carpet steam cleaning machine,<br>it doesn't really make economic sense for everyone to have their own<br>batteries either. A central utility could buy and maintain batteries<br>with economies of scale.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For the purpose of storing intermittent wind and solar power,the electric utility companies could use mass installations ofthese batteries .
Assuming they do n't have hydro dams torun in reverse using the wind and solar , that is.Just like it does n't actually make sense for everyone on your blockto own a lawnmower or circular saw or carpet steam cleaning machine,it does n't really make economic sense for everyone to have their ownbatteries either .
A central utility could buy and maintain batterieswith economies of scale .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For the purpose of storing intermittent wind and solar power,the electric utility companies could use mass installations ofthese batteries.
Assuming they don't have hydro dams torun in reverse using the wind and solar, that is.Just like it doesn't actually make sense for everyone on your blockto own a lawnmower or circular saw or carpet steam cleaning machine,it doesn't really make economic sense for everyone to have their ownbatteries either.
A central utility could buy and maintain batterieswith economies of scale.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546498</id>
	<title>How many charge cycles?</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1261688100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you could substantially increase the number of full (or nearly-full) charge cycles in the lifetime of a battery, then you could buy off-peak power and sell it back during peak hours. Of course, some things would have to change for this to be lucrative, but it's not an impossible dream. All it really has to do is pay for itself and people will do it, because it gets them whole-house UPS... and we all win.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you could substantially increase the number of full ( or nearly-full ) charge cycles in the lifetime of a battery , then you could buy off-peak power and sell it back during peak hours .
Of course , some things would have to change for this to be lucrative , but it 's not an impossible dream .
All it really has to do is pay for itself and people will do it , because it gets them whole-house UPS... and we all win .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you could substantially increase the number of full (or nearly-full) charge cycles in the lifetime of a battery, then you could buy off-peak power and sell it back during peak hours.
Of course, some things would have to change for this to be lucrative, but it's not an impossible dream.
All it really has to do is pay for itself and people will do it, because it gets them whole-house UPS... and we all win.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30549262</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>Lord Kano</author>
	<datestamp>1261677960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have experience in heavy industry. They buy a lot of power. They are in may ways the bread and butter of a power company. The world is a bit different now, but in this part of the US, electric utilities were once run to an area because there was heavy industry there that would be buying the power. Communities were build up around the industry and those people had electricity, sewage, running water, etc. because it was all provided nearby for the industrial user. Now, power is run to every inhabited place, but heavy industry still buys a lot of power. They have contractual agreements with utilities. They have a maximum power allotment for the contractually determined period of time, let's just work with months in this case, if they go over that allotment they have to pay a much higher rate for all of the power they bought during the month. It can sometimes double the electric bill. You think a $150 monthly power bill is bad? What if you're using $200k worth of electricity in a month? There are computer systems dedicated to continuous computation of how much it costs to operate for an hour, how much money is being generated by operating that hour, how much power is being used, the number of dollars per kwh, commodity prices, how much it would cost to locally generate power and myriad other variables. At some points it's a better business decision to shut down operations, at other points it's better to keep operating and pay the higher electric rate and lastly there are situations where it's most profitable to operate but generate electricity locally using another resource, like natural gas.</p><p>I highly doubt that the utility companies will provide home users with the most beneficial data for power management. If you want to save money, you'll have to have your own system.</p><p>LK</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have experience in heavy industry .
They buy a lot of power .
They are in may ways the bread and butter of a power company .
The world is a bit different now , but in this part of the US , electric utilities were once run to an area because there was heavy industry there that would be buying the power .
Communities were build up around the industry and those people had electricity , sewage , running water , etc .
because it was all provided nearby for the industrial user .
Now , power is run to every inhabited place , but heavy industry still buys a lot of power .
They have contractual agreements with utilities .
They have a maximum power allotment for the contractually determined period of time , let 's just work with months in this case , if they go over that allotment they have to pay a much higher rate for all of the power they bought during the month .
It can sometimes double the electric bill .
You think a $ 150 monthly power bill is bad ?
What if you 're using $ 200k worth of electricity in a month ?
There are computer systems dedicated to continuous computation of how much it costs to operate for an hour , how much money is being generated by operating that hour , how much power is being used , the number of dollars per kwh , commodity prices , how much it would cost to locally generate power and myriad other variables .
At some points it 's a better business decision to shut down operations , at other points it 's better to keep operating and pay the higher electric rate and lastly there are situations where it 's most profitable to operate but generate electricity locally using another resource , like natural gas.I highly doubt that the utility companies will provide home users with the most beneficial data for power management .
If you want to save money , you 'll have to have your own system.LK</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have experience in heavy industry.
They buy a lot of power.
They are in may ways the bread and butter of a power company.
The world is a bit different now, but in this part of the US, electric utilities were once run to an area because there was heavy industry there that would be buying the power.
Communities were build up around the industry and those people had electricity, sewage, running water, etc.
because it was all provided nearby for the industrial user.
Now, power is run to every inhabited place, but heavy industry still buys a lot of power.
They have contractual agreements with utilities.
They have a maximum power allotment for the contractually determined period of time, let's just work with months in this case, if they go over that allotment they have to pay a much higher rate for all of the power they bought during the month.
It can sometimes double the electric bill.
You think a $150 monthly power bill is bad?
What if you're using $200k worth of electricity in a month?
There are computer systems dedicated to continuous computation of how much it costs to operate for an hour, how much money is being generated by operating that hour, how much power is being used, the number of dollars per kwh, commodity prices, how much it would cost to locally generate power and myriad other variables.
At some points it's a better business decision to shut down operations, at other points it's better to keep operating and pay the higher electric rate and lastly there are situations where it's most profitable to operate but generate electricity locally using another resource, like natural gas.I highly doubt that the utility companies will provide home users with the most beneficial data for power management.
If you want to save money, you'll have to have your own system.LK</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544774</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544772</id>
	<title>Other considerations</title>
	<author>satsuke</author>
	<datestamp>1261675980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some of these technologies are of no use to those of us that live in areas where the cost of energy is consistent all day and night and year round.</p><p>Part of that maybe the problem (no intelligence in the infrastructure).  But in the meantime if I were to have solar or any other resource put up that would benefit from stored energy for later use, it'll throw the payback vs normal utility curve way off to where I'd have to live here for decades to get my money back in anything but smugness.</p><p>As far as LI battery technology, it seems that the Prius used NMhd batteries because the number of charge discharge cycles was greater, since the batteries in the story were expected to have a cycle per day, the owner would have to replace them realistically every 3-4 years.</p><p>As far as the greater energy content of LI batteries, that is a risk that is always present with batteries.  As long as the controller / charger is smart and has a layer or two of fault checking, the risk of runaway thermal events is pretty low.  (The problem people had with Lithium Ion AA cell batteries where they are available was when people put them into standard NiCad or NiMh chargers, which apply too much current too quickly and make them pop to start fires.  Since this is an integrated system by Panasonic with no capacity to mix and match technology evident, I'd say the risks is low.)</p><p>It would be possible with standard deep cycle lead acid batteries, but than you have to have climate control for your batteries above and beyond that proposed, and than your dedicating a good chunk of floorspace to batteries (You can't stack them because of heat buildup when discharging).  I know the Central Offices I've been in have had a good chunk of their floorspace dedicated to just power, and even than only for the few minutes it takes for the diesel to kick over<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. and you don't want to know what happens to expensive telephone equipment when it starts getting fed progressive amounts lower than 48VDC.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of these technologies are of no use to those of us that live in areas where the cost of energy is consistent all day and night and year round.Part of that maybe the problem ( no intelligence in the infrastructure ) .
But in the meantime if I were to have solar or any other resource put up that would benefit from stored energy for later use , it 'll throw the payback vs normal utility curve way off to where I 'd have to live here for decades to get my money back in anything but smugness.As far as LI battery technology , it seems that the Prius used NMhd batteries because the number of charge discharge cycles was greater , since the batteries in the story were expected to have a cycle per day , the owner would have to replace them realistically every 3-4 years.As far as the greater energy content of LI batteries , that is a risk that is always present with batteries .
As long as the controller / charger is smart and has a layer or two of fault checking , the risk of runaway thermal events is pretty low .
( The problem people had with Lithium Ion AA cell batteries where they are available was when people put them into standard NiCad or NiMh chargers , which apply too much current too quickly and make them pop to start fires .
Since this is an integrated system by Panasonic with no capacity to mix and match technology evident , I 'd say the risks is low .
) It would be possible with standard deep cycle lead acid batteries , but than you have to have climate control for your batteries above and beyond that proposed , and than your dedicating a good chunk of floorspace to batteries ( You ca n't stack them because of heat buildup when discharging ) .
I know the Central Offices I 've been in have had a good chunk of their floorspace dedicated to just power , and even than only for the few minutes it takes for the diesel to kick over .. and you do n't want to know what happens to expensive telephone equipment when it starts getting fed progressive amounts lower than 48VDC .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of these technologies are of no use to those of us that live in areas where the cost of energy is consistent all day and night and year round.Part of that maybe the problem (no intelligence in the infrastructure).
But in the meantime if I were to have solar or any other resource put up that would benefit from stored energy for later use, it'll throw the payback vs normal utility curve way off to where I'd have to live here for decades to get my money back in anything but smugness.As far as LI battery technology, it seems that the Prius used NMhd batteries because the number of charge discharge cycles was greater, since the batteries in the story were expected to have a cycle per day, the owner would have to replace them realistically every 3-4 years.As far as the greater energy content of LI batteries, that is a risk that is always present with batteries.
As long as the controller / charger is smart and has a layer or two of fault checking, the risk of runaway thermal events is pretty low.
(The problem people had with Lithium Ion AA cell batteries where they are available was when people put them into standard NiCad or NiMh chargers, which apply too much current too quickly and make them pop to start fires.
Since this is an integrated system by Panasonic with no capacity to mix and match technology evident, I'd say the risks is low.
)It would be possible with standard deep cycle lead acid batteries, but than you have to have climate control for your batteries above and beyond that proposed, and than your dedicating a good chunk of floorspace to batteries (You can't stack them because of heat buildup when discharging).
I know the Central Offices I've been in have had a good chunk of their floorspace dedicated to just power, and even than only for the few minutes it takes for the diesel to kick over .. and you don't want to know what happens to expensive telephone equipment when it starts getting fed progressive amounts lower than 48VDC.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30548764</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>petermgreen</author>
	<datestamp>1261670640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Since moving to the UK I've not had any power outages. why is American electricity so unstable?</i><br>The americans seem to preffer to do thier electricity distribution overhead. This is cheaper than underground but more susceptible to damage and disruption. Areas of the UK using overhead distribution (generally rural areas) have similar issues in my experience.</p><p>The UK also has the advantage of a pretty mild climate with basically no natural disasters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since moving to the UK I 've not had any power outages .
why is American electricity so unstable ? The americans seem to preffer to do thier electricity distribution overhead .
This is cheaper than underground but more susceptible to damage and disruption .
Areas of the UK using overhead distribution ( generally rural areas ) have similar issues in my experience.The UK also has the advantage of a pretty mild climate with basically no natural disasters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since moving to the UK I've not had any power outages.
why is American electricity so unstable?The americans seem to preffer to do thier electricity distribution overhead.
This is cheaper than underground but more susceptible to damage and disruption.
Areas of the UK using overhead distribution (generally rural areas) have similar issues in my experience.The UK also has the advantage of a pretty mild climate with basically no natural disasters.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546692</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545980</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>cnaumann</author>
	<datestamp>1261683720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The mass of lithium in a Li ion battery is no where near 1/2. For example, a LiMn2O4 Cathode is only 1/20 lithium by mass. Also, the 'recoverable' reserves of Lithium are at least three time higher than that 11 Megatonnes estimate. See <a href="http://lithiumabundance.blogspot.com/" title="blogspot.com">http://lithiumabundance.blogspot.com/</a> [blogspot.com].</p><p>The earth's crust is nearly 20 ppm lithium by mass, so lithium is faily abundant. However, there are very few economically recoverable sources of lithium. If prices rise, more sources become available. We simple cannot 'run out' of lithium.</p><p>World production of lithium is another matter, it is only about 40,000 tonnes a year.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The mass of lithium in a Li ion battery is no where near 1/2 .
For example , a LiMn2O4 Cathode is only 1/20 lithium by mass .
Also , the 'recoverable ' reserves of Lithium are at least three time higher than that 11 Megatonnes estimate .
See http : //lithiumabundance.blogspot.com/ [ blogspot.com ] .The earth 's crust is nearly 20 ppm lithium by mass , so lithium is faily abundant .
However , there are very few economically recoverable sources of lithium .
If prices rise , more sources become available .
We simple can not 'run out ' of lithium.World production of lithium is another matter , it is only about 40,000 tonnes a year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The mass of lithium in a Li ion battery is no where near 1/2.
For example, a LiMn2O4 Cathode is only 1/20 lithium by mass.
Also, the 'recoverable' reserves of Lithium are at least three time higher than that 11 Megatonnes estimate.
See http://lithiumabundance.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com].The earth's crust is nearly 20 ppm lithium by mass, so lithium is faily abundant.
However, there are very few economically recoverable sources of lithium.
If prices rise, more sources become available.
We simple cannot 'run out' of lithium.World production of lithium is another matter, it is only about 40,000 tonnes a year.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546702</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>DamonHD</author>
	<datestamp>1261647060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm having trouble with the notion of a fishtank's electrics being 'essential'...  Important, maybe, but hardly live or death like your heating failing in a severe cold-snap might well be.</p><p>In this case I think we should all be thinking about life's essentials and not expecting to run our 63" plasma TVs uninterrupted through a week-long power outage... Never mind Peak Oil / Climate Change / etc...</p><p>Rgds</p><p>Damon</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm having trouble with the notion of a fishtank 's electrics being 'essential'... Important , maybe , but hardly live or death like your heating failing in a severe cold-snap might well be.In this case I think we should all be thinking about life 's essentials and not expecting to run our 63 " plasma TVs uninterrupted through a week-long power outage... Never mind Peak Oil / Climate Change / etc...RgdsDamon</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm having trouble with the notion of a fishtank's electrics being 'essential'...  Important, maybe, but hardly live or death like your heating failing in a severe cold-snap might well be.In this case I think we should all be thinking about life's essentials and not expecting to run our 63" plasma TVs uninterrupted through a week-long power outage... Never mind Peak Oil / Climate Change / etc...RgdsDamon</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544794</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545994</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong technology</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1261683780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The only advantage of lithium batteries is high energy density, which is irrelevant for a static installation.</p></div></blockquote><p>On the contrary, I know of no static installation with unlimited floorspace or volume, let alone floorspace or volume without competing demands.<br>
&nbsp; </p><blockquote><div><p>For powering something as long lasting as a house it would be better to use something more robust. Nickel-iron batteries have low energy density but are very robust. I wouldn't want a house battery I'd have to replace every few years.</p></div></blockquote><p>If you want a battery you don't have to replace every few years, look into the new 'fairy dust and unicorn pelt' battery technology.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only advantage of lithium batteries is high energy density , which is irrelevant for a static installation.On the contrary , I know of no static installation with unlimited floorspace or volume , let alone floorspace or volume without competing demands .
  For powering something as long lasting as a house it would be better to use something more robust .
Nickel-iron batteries have low energy density but are very robust .
I would n't want a house battery I 'd have to replace every few years.If you want a battery you do n't have to replace every few years , look into the new 'fairy dust and unicorn pelt ' battery technology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only advantage of lithium batteries is high energy density, which is irrelevant for a static installation.On the contrary, I know of no static installation with unlimited floorspace or volume, let alone floorspace or volume without competing demands.
  For powering something as long lasting as a house it would be better to use something more robust.
Nickel-iron batteries have low energy density but are very robust.
I wouldn't want a house battery I'd have to replace every few years.If you want a battery you don't have to replace every few years, look into the new 'fairy dust and unicorn pelt' battery technology.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544890</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545358</id>
	<title>Re:Vaporware</title>
	<author>countertrolling</author>
	<datestamp>1261679700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>CmdrTaco, WTF?..</i></p><p>Waddya mean WTF? There's a potential revenue stream here. Like prospecting for oil.. Everybody's becoming a bit of an ad site.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>CmdrTaco , WTF ? ..Waddya mean WTF ?
There 's a potential revenue stream here .
Like prospecting for oil.. Everybody 's becoming a bit of an ad site .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CmdrTaco, WTF?..Waddya mean WTF?
There's a potential revenue stream here.
Like prospecting for oil.. Everybody's becoming a bit of an ad site.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546918</id>
	<title>Re:Video of actual Lithium Ion battery fire (stage</title>
	<author>this\_is\_art</author>
	<datestamp>1261648980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Any form of stored energy can present a fire hazard, and yes those fires are often "spectacular."  A "whole house battery" should be subject to the same sorts of construction rules that apply to things like home fuel storage tanks.  It's not for the fainthearted, but that hasn't stopped people from making good and productive use of energy storage for centuries.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Any form of stored energy can present a fire hazard , and yes those fires are often " spectacular .
" A " whole house battery " should be subject to the same sorts of construction rules that apply to things like home fuel storage tanks .
It 's not for the fainthearted , but that has n't stopped people from making good and productive use of energy storage for centuries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any form of stored energy can present a fire hazard, and yes those fires are often "spectacular.
"  A "whole house battery" should be subject to the same sorts of construction rules that apply to things like home fuel storage tanks.
It's not for the fainthearted, but that hasn't stopped people from making good and productive use of energy storage for centuries.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545420</id>
	<title>How much does gas cost?</title>
	<author>Colin Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1261680120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These only make financial sense if you have a BEV you can charge off the batteries. Same for photovoltaic solar cells. They take 10-15 years to pay off otherwise. With a BEV solar panels can pay off in 5 years on 15kmiles/year (in the E.U.).</p><p>Taxi companies. Big milages. Of course, feasible BEVs are required[1].</p><p>Solar thermal panels OTOH can pay off in 3-4 years if you size them to replace both your DHW and CH.</p><p>[1] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solectria\_Sunrise" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solectria\_Sunrise</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These only make financial sense if you have a BEV you can charge off the batteries .
Same for photovoltaic solar cells .
They take 10-15 years to pay off otherwise .
With a BEV solar panels can pay off in 5 years on 15kmiles/year ( in the E.U .
) .Taxi companies .
Big milages .
Of course , feasible BEVs are required [ 1 ] .Solar thermal panels OTOH can pay off in 3-4 years if you size them to replace both your DHW and CH .
[ 1 ] http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solectria \ _Sunrise [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These only make financial sense if you have a BEV you can charge off the batteries.
Same for photovoltaic solar cells.
They take 10-15 years to pay off otherwise.
With a BEV solar panels can pay off in 5 years on 15kmiles/year (in the E.U.
).Taxi companies.
Big milages.
Of course, feasible BEVs are required[1].Solar thermal panels OTOH can pay off in 3-4 years if you size them to replace both your DHW and CH.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solectria\_Sunrise [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544544</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545394</id>
	<title>Re:But what about the massive environmental damage</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261680000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>dude are you fucking kidding me?  Ill bet life was a lot easier a thousand years ago when everyone farmed for twenty years, got rickets or dysentery, then died by the time they were 25, had no wealth or land or civil rights.  Yea, thats way better than my life right now.  Youre a fucking moron.  Go move to zimbabwe or the DRC and see how you like living in harmony with nature.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>dude are you fucking kidding me ?
Ill bet life was a lot easier a thousand years ago when everyone farmed for twenty years , got rickets or dysentery , then died by the time they were 25 , had no wealth or land or civil rights .
Yea , thats way better than my life right now .
Youre a fucking moron .
Go move to zimbabwe or the DRC and see how you like living in harmony with nature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>dude are you fucking kidding me?
Ill bet life was a lot easier a thousand years ago when everyone farmed for twenty years, got rickets or dysentery, then died by the time they were 25, had no wealth or land or civil rights.
Yea, thats way better than my life right now.
Youre a fucking moron.
Go move to zimbabwe or the DRC and see how you like living in harmony with nature.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546056</id>
	<title>Seawater</title>
	<author>ShanghaiBill</author>
	<datestamp>1261684320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>
With a total world's estimated Lithium reserves of ~11000000 tonnes we can outfit around 11 million homes with such batteries before we run out of Lithium.
</i>
<p>
The oceans contain about 230 <b>billion</b> tonnes of lithium.  The cost to extract lithium from seawater is <i>currently</i> around four times the market value, but should come down with further research.  Building these "home batteries" may or may not make economic sense, but the lack of lithium is not a fundamental problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With a total world 's estimated Lithium reserves of ~ 11000000 tonnes we can outfit around 11 million homes with such batteries before we run out of Lithium .
The oceans contain about 230 billion tonnes of lithium .
The cost to extract lithium from seawater is currently around four times the market value , but should come down with further research .
Building these " home batteries " may or may not make economic sense , but the lack of lithium is not a fundamental problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
With a total world's estimated Lithium reserves of ~11000000 tonnes we can outfit around 11 million homes with such batteries before we run out of Lithium.
The oceans contain about 230 billion tonnes of lithium.
The cost to extract lithium from seawater is currently around four times the market value, but should come down with further research.
Building these "home batteries" may or may not make economic sense, but the lack of lithium is not a fundamental problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544892</id>
	<title>There's other things besides Lithium Ion</title>
	<author>adipocere</author>
	<datestamp>1261676700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd prefer an EESU from EESTOR (if that ever happens), since it would be cheaper on a buck-per-Joule level and it would last for a very, very long time.  Second to that, nickel-iron batteries, which are heavy and inefficient, but survive much abuse and have working lifetimes far longer than that of most other batteries.  Pity they are no longer made in the United States; much of their price is presumably in just shipping them here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd prefer an EESU from EESTOR ( if that ever happens ) , since it would be cheaper on a buck-per-Joule level and it would last for a very , very long time .
Second to that , nickel-iron batteries , which are heavy and inefficient , but survive much abuse and have working lifetimes far longer than that of most other batteries .
Pity they are no longer made in the United States ; much of their price is presumably in just shipping them here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd prefer an EESU from EESTOR (if that ever happens), since it would be cheaper on a buck-per-Joule level and it would last for a very, very long time.
Second to that, nickel-iron batteries, which are heavy and inefficient, but survive much abuse and have working lifetimes far longer than that of most other batteries.
Pity they are no longer made in the United States; much of their price is presumably in just shipping them here.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545696</id>
	<title>cost</title>
	<author>rossdee</author>
	<datestamp>1261681980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does the battery cost more than the house? Given the cost of laptop batteries that use Li-ion I would think so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does the battery cost more than the house ?
Given the cost of laptop batteries that use Li-ion I would think so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does the battery cost more than the house?
Given the cost of laptop batteries that use Li-ion I would think so.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545878</id>
	<title>Re:Excellent! But...</title>
	<author>Sparr0</author>
	<datestamp>1261683060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You, sir, are part of the precipitate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You , sir , are part of the precipitate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You, sir, are part of the precipitate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544542</id>
	<title>source?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261674660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can we get an actual source, not one that injects pointless banal commentary, and actual shows where they got their information? kthxbai</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can we get an actual source , not one that injects pointless banal commentary , and actual shows where they got their information ?
kthxbai</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can we get an actual source, not one that injects pointless banal commentary, and actual shows where they got their information?
kthxbai</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544936</id>
	<title>I dont think so...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261677000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>sorry, but this is BS.</p><p>50kWh Li-Ion battery pack in tesla roadster weights about 500kg, and I'm not sure if I want to know how much it cost. if you wants to know, it is about 36'000 USD (wiki...)<br>if your home consumes about 1kW per hour at average, these (half a ton, 36 grand) batteries batteries can power it for about two days. a week ? 1.5 ton and over 100 thousand for batteries !<br>are they nuts ?</p><p>what about safety? if they are overcharged or pierced it could have fatal consequences. how long will they last? even if it was 10 years, the cost is crazy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>sorry , but this is BS.50kWh Li-Ion battery pack in tesla roadster weights about 500kg , and I 'm not sure if I want to know how much it cost .
if you wants to know , it is about 36'000 USD ( wiki... ) if your home consumes about 1kW per hour at average , these ( half a ton , 36 grand ) batteries batteries can power it for about two days .
a week ?
1.5 ton and over 100 thousand for batteries ! are they nuts ? what about safety ?
if they are overcharged or pierced it could have fatal consequences .
how long will they last ?
even if it was 10 years , the cost is crazy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sorry, but this is BS.50kWh Li-Ion battery pack in tesla roadster weights about 500kg, and I'm not sure if I want to know how much it cost.
if you wants to know, it is about 36'000 USD (wiki...)if your home consumes about 1kW per hour at average, these (half a ton, 36 grand) batteries batteries can power it for about two days.
a week ?
1.5 ton and over 100 thousand for batteries !are they nuts ?what about safety?
if they are overcharged or pierced it could have fatal consequences.
how long will they last?
even if it was 10 years, the cost is crazy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545416</id>
	<title>Other consideration</title>
	<author>zmaragdus</author>
	<datestamp>1261680060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The manufacturing of said batteries, in addition to being expensive (working against the return-on-investment aspect of the house battery), is rather detrimental to the environment (kind of like solar cells, especially the old ones). One has to wonder whether building and using this system will result in a net benefit to the environment, let alone your pocket.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The manufacturing of said batteries , in addition to being expensive ( working against the return-on-investment aspect of the house battery ) , is rather detrimental to the environment ( kind of like solar cells , especially the old ones ) .
One has to wonder whether building and using this system will result in a net benefit to the environment , let alone your pocket .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The manufacturing of said batteries, in addition to being expensive (working against the return-on-investment aspect of the house battery), is rather detrimental to the environment (kind of like solar cells, especially the old ones).
One has to wonder whether building and using this system will result in a net benefit to the environment, let alone your pocket.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546800</id>
	<title>Re:Tense</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261647840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>only there's nowhere to store it at the moment</p></div><p>I beg to differ, although with this type of storage, it's not meant to be turned back into electricity, but rather into heat:<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage\_heater" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage\_heater</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>only there 's nowhere to store it at the momentI beg to differ , although with this type of storage , it 's not meant to be turned back into electricity , but rather into heat : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage \ _heater [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>only there's nowhere to store it at the momentI beg to differ, although with this type of storage, it's not meant to be turned back into electricity, but rather into heat:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage\_heater [wikipedia.org]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544530</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544916</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>smchris</author>
	<datestamp>1261676820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A week does initially seem odd but I'm guessing it's marketing.  Like Tesla Motors, you sell to the McMansion crowd first where it might be good for distinctly less than a week.  They can always downsize a unit when production costs are getting recouped.</p><p>On the McMansion front, think grounds security without worrying about watching and feeding a generator.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A week does initially seem odd but I 'm guessing it 's marketing .
Like Tesla Motors , you sell to the McMansion crowd first where it might be good for distinctly less than a week .
They can always downsize a unit when production costs are getting recouped.On the McMansion front , think grounds security without worrying about watching and feeding a generator .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A week does initially seem odd but I'm guessing it's marketing.
Like Tesla Motors, you sell to the McMansion crowd first where it might be good for distinctly less than a week.
They can always downsize a unit when production costs are getting recouped.On the McMansion front, think grounds security without worrying about watching and feeding a generator.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544794</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261676100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
It's not the average times that get you. It's the outlier numbers that collapse into the averages. We've seen eight hours without power in -20 degreee F weather here in Montana. It's why I own a generator and can switch power to the (gas) furnace any time I want to. When you're talking about protection from power outages, what you want to know is does the power EVER go out for long enough intervals to do you damage: And everywhere I've lived - Pennsylvania, NYC, Florida, California, Montana - the answer is an unqualified yes. Right now, there's no sense going without UPSs for computer systems and backups for heating and critical power systems like fishtanks, refrigerators, etc.
</p><p>
The power grid is subject to people running into telephone poles, ice on the lines, old transformers bursting into flames, lightning and geomagnetic storms, human error, and a bunch more things. That's the nature of it - it's out there in the real world. You can protect a power system within your own walls such that it is much more reliable, and that's no slam on the power company - you simply don't have as much to contend with.
</p><p>
Now, if you have no pipes to freeze, no data to lose, no fish to watch float to the top, no freezers full of food to see turn into biohazard... sure, I can see depending on the average. After all... what could go wrong?
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not the average times that get you .
It 's the outlier numbers that collapse into the averages .
We 've seen eight hours without power in -20 degreee F weather here in Montana .
It 's why I own a generator and can switch power to the ( gas ) furnace any time I want to .
When you 're talking about protection from power outages , what you want to know is does the power EVER go out for long enough intervals to do you damage : And everywhere I 've lived - Pennsylvania , NYC , Florida , California , Montana - the answer is an unqualified yes .
Right now , there 's no sense going without UPSs for computer systems and backups for heating and critical power systems like fishtanks , refrigerators , etc .
The power grid is subject to people running into telephone poles , ice on the lines , old transformers bursting into flames , lightning and geomagnetic storms , human error , and a bunch more things .
That 's the nature of it - it 's out there in the real world .
You can protect a power system within your own walls such that it is much more reliable , and that 's no slam on the power company - you simply do n't have as much to contend with .
Now , if you have no pipes to freeze , no data to lose , no fish to watch float to the top , no freezers full of food to see turn into biohazard... sure , I can see depending on the average .
After all... what could go wrong ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
It's not the average times that get you.
It's the outlier numbers that collapse into the averages.
We've seen eight hours without power in -20 degreee F weather here in Montana.
It's why I own a generator and can switch power to the (gas) furnace any time I want to.
When you're talking about protection from power outages, what you want to know is does the power EVER go out for long enough intervals to do you damage: And everywhere I've lived - Pennsylvania, NYC, Florida, California, Montana - the answer is an unqualified yes.
Right now, there's no sense going without UPSs for computer systems and backups for heating and critical power systems like fishtanks, refrigerators, etc.
The power grid is subject to people running into telephone poles, ice on the lines, old transformers bursting into flames, lightning and geomagnetic storms, human error, and a bunch more things.
That's the nature of it - it's out there in the real world.
You can protect a power system within your own walls such that it is much more reliable, and that's no slam on the power company - you simply don't have as much to contend with.
Now, if you have no pipes to freeze, no data to lose, no fish to watch float to the top, no freezers full of food to see turn into biohazard... sure, I can see depending on the average.
After all... what could go wrong?
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544568</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30554130</id>
	<title>Re:Other considerations</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261762860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or living in a place like Winnipeg, Canada where we have ample, CHEAP power ($0.0625/kWh) and an ever flowing supply of natural gas connected to almost every house.</p><p>a $2,000 natural gas generator with automatic cut over would still be substantially cheaper then a battery of this capacity..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or living in a place like Winnipeg , Canada where we have ample , CHEAP power ( $ 0.0625/kWh ) and an ever flowing supply of natural gas connected to almost every house.a $ 2,000 natural gas generator with automatic cut over would still be substantially cheaper then a battery of this capacity. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or living in a place like Winnipeg, Canada where we have ample, CHEAP power ($0.0625/kWh) and an ever flowing supply of natural gas connected to almost every house.a $2,000 natural gas generator with automatic cut over would still be substantially cheaper then a battery of this capacity..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544772</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546804</id>
	<title>Re:How many charge cycles?</title>
	<author>DamonHD</author>
	<datestamp>1261647840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the UK the ratio between peak and off-peak wholesale electricity can be about 10:1, and it turns out it's financially worth installing massive reversible turbines under mountain lakes to do it, so yes, with a similar cycle efficiency and a retail tariff strongly linked to wholesale prices (eg c/o "smart metering") it could be well-worth doing.</p><p>Rgds</p><p>Damon</p><p>PS. Looks like a more modest 2:1 or 3:1 over the last 48h or so: <a href="http://www.bmreports.com/bsp/SystemPrices.php?pT=SYSPRICE&amp;dT=NRT" title="bmreports.com">http://www.bmreports.com/bsp/SystemPrices.php?pT=SYSPRICE&amp;dT=NRT</a> [bmreports.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the UK the ratio between peak and off-peak wholesale electricity can be about 10 : 1 , and it turns out it 's financially worth installing massive reversible turbines under mountain lakes to do it , so yes , with a similar cycle efficiency and a retail tariff strongly linked to wholesale prices ( eg c/o " smart metering " ) it could be well-worth doing.RgdsDamonPS .
Looks like a more modest 2 : 1 or 3 : 1 over the last 48h or so : http : //www.bmreports.com/bsp/SystemPrices.php ? pT = SYSPRICE&amp;dT = NRT [ bmreports.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the UK the ratio between peak and off-peak wholesale electricity can be about 10:1, and it turns out it's financially worth installing massive reversible turbines under mountain lakes to do it, so yes, with a similar cycle efficiency and a retail tariff strongly linked to wholesale prices (eg c/o "smart metering") it could be well-worth doing.RgdsDamonPS.
Looks like a more modest 2:1 or 3:1 over the last 48h or so: http://www.bmreports.com/bsp/SystemPrices.php?pT=SYSPRICE&amp;dT=NRT [bmreports.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546498</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545924</id>
	<title>Re:Other considerations</title>
	<author>Sparr0</author>
	<datestamp>1261683300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are no areas where the cost of energy is consistent all day and night and year round (is anyone using 100\% geothermal or nuclear yet?).  If you think you live in such an area then you are at one end of an energy subsidization deal.</p><p>That is, if you are a day person and paying 15c/kWh at 2PM, and your nocturnal neighbor is paying the same 15c/kWh at 2AM, he is subsidizing your price.  Or vice versa.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are no areas where the cost of energy is consistent all day and night and year round ( is anyone using 100 \ % geothermal or nuclear yet ? ) .
If you think you live in such an area then you are at one end of an energy subsidization deal.That is , if you are a day person and paying 15c/kWh at 2PM , and your nocturnal neighbor is paying the same 15c/kWh at 2AM , he is subsidizing your price .
Or vice versa .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are no areas where the cost of energy is consistent all day and night and year round (is anyone using 100\% geothermal or nuclear yet?).
If you think you live in such an area then you are at one end of an energy subsidization deal.That is, if you are a day person and paying 15c/kWh at 2PM, and your nocturnal neighbor is paying the same 15c/kWh at 2AM, he is subsidizing your price.
Or vice versa.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544772</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30548486</id>
	<title>It's like Tivo for power...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261666140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's always good to understand if you have a money problem (not enough energy) or a time problem (usage patterns).</p><p>The battery is basically looking to time-shift consumption.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's always good to understand if you have a money problem ( not enough energy ) or a time problem ( usage patterns ) .The battery is basically looking to time-shift consumption .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's always good to understand if you have a money problem (not enough energy) or a time problem (usage patterns).The battery is basically looking to time-shift consumption.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545578</id>
	<title>Doesn't help you buy cheap power</title>
	<author>fluffy99</author>
	<datestamp>1261681200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Also, you can buy energy when it is cheapest</p></div><p>You can charge them at night if your power company has lower rates at night.  It's pointless though as any savings in the cost disappear in the inefficiencies of the ac-&gt;dc for charging, the heat losses during charging, and the dc-&gt;ac conversion to use that power again.  A 10\% savings in the power cost is stupid when you give up \%15 of the energy trying to save it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , you can buy energy when it is cheapestYou can charge them at night if your power company has lower rates at night .
It 's pointless though as any savings in the cost disappear in the inefficiencies of the ac- &gt; dc for charging , the heat losses during charging , and the dc- &gt; ac conversion to use that power again .
A 10 \ % savings in the power cost is stupid when you give up \ % 15 of the energy trying to save it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, you can buy energy when it is cheapestYou can charge them at night if your power company has lower rates at night.
It's pointless though as any savings in the cost disappear in the inefficiencies of the ac-&gt;dc for charging, the heat losses during charging, and the dc-&gt;ac conversion to use that power again.
A 10\% savings in the power cost is stupid when you give up \%15 of the energy trying to save it.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544760</id>
	<title>Excellent! But...</title>
	<author>Overzeetop</author>
	<datestamp>1261675920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm going to need a 16,000Ah rating at 48V, plus a 100kW inverter to power my 1600SF, 1960s ranch. Granted, it's not the most efficient home ever built, but it's all electric (yes, it's been upgraded to 400A/240V service, and I really do run through 800kWH a week during cold winter periods...which is when the electricity is most likely to fail).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm going to need a 16,000Ah rating at 48V , plus a 100kW inverter to power my 1600SF , 1960s ranch .
Granted , it 's not the most efficient home ever built , but it 's all electric ( yes , it 's been upgraded to 400A/240V service , and I really do run through 800kWH a week during cold winter periods...which is when the electricity is most likely to fail ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm going to need a 16,000Ah rating at 48V, plus a 100kW inverter to power my 1600SF, 1960s ranch.
Granted, it's not the most efficient home ever built, but it's all electric (yes, it's been upgraded to 400A/240V service, and I really do run through 800kWH a week during cold winter periods...which is when the electricity is most likely to fail).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545096</id>
	<title>Nothing to see here</title>
	<author>ickleberry</author>
	<datestamp>1261678080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well actually there is. When you look at the picture it looks awfully similar to a whole bunch of 18650's shoved into a box.<br> <br>

and besides. Lithium ion sucks, anyone who has owned an iPhone/iPod for more than a year will know this. -20\% a year at room temperature, 500 cycle life.<br> <br>

The only way this would be a viable way to power a house is if you took an absolute crapload of 'spent' li-ion batteries from consumer electronics for free and assembled the pack yourself then put it in the shed to extend it's short lifetime. I'd say your average spent li-ion will have a better energy density than a brand new lead-acid battery</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well actually there is .
When you look at the picture it looks awfully similar to a whole bunch of 18650 's shoved into a box .
and besides .
Lithium ion sucks , anyone who has owned an iPhone/iPod for more than a year will know this .
-20 \ % a year at room temperature , 500 cycle life .
The only way this would be a viable way to power a house is if you took an absolute crapload of 'spent ' li-ion batteries from consumer electronics for free and assembled the pack yourself then put it in the shed to extend it 's short lifetime .
I 'd say your average spent li-ion will have a better energy density than a brand new lead-acid battery</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well actually there is.
When you look at the picture it looks awfully similar to a whole bunch of 18650's shoved into a box.
and besides.
Lithium ion sucks, anyone who has owned an iPhone/iPod for more than a year will know this.
-20\% a year at room temperature, 500 cycle life.
The only way this would be a viable way to power a house is if you took an absolute crapload of 'spent' li-ion batteries from consumer electronics for free and assembled the pack yourself then put it in the shed to extend it's short lifetime.
I'd say your average spent li-ion will have a better energy density than a brand new lead-acid battery</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544958</id>
	<title>Video of actual Lithium Ion battery fire (staged)</title>
	<author>rotide</author>
	<datestamp>1261677180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While this was staged for demonstration purposes, it demonstrates the power Lithium Ion batteries can expel when they fail.</p><p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeWq6rWzChw</p><p>Pretty sure I don't want a huge one of these in my basement...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While this was staged for demonstration purposes , it demonstrates the power Lithium Ion batteries can expel when they fail.http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = WeWq6rWzChwPretty sure I do n't want a huge one of these in my basement.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While this was staged for demonstration purposes, it demonstrates the power Lithium Ion batteries can expel when they fail.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeWq6rWzChwPretty sure I don't want a huge one of these in my basement...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544890</id>
	<title>Wrong technology</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261676700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The only advantage of lithium batteries is high energy density, which is irrelevant for a static installation. For powering something as long lasting as a house it would be better to use something more robust. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-iron\_battery" title="wikipedia.org">Nickel-iron</a> [wikipedia.org] batteries have low energy density but are very robust. I wouldn't want a house battery I'd have to replace every few years.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only advantage of lithium batteries is high energy density , which is irrelevant for a static installation .
For powering something as long lasting as a house it would be better to use something more robust .
Nickel-iron [ wikipedia.org ] batteries have low energy density but are very robust .
I would n't want a house battery I 'd have to replace every few years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only advantage of lithium batteries is high energy density, which is irrelevant for a static installation.
For powering something as long lasting as a house it would be better to use something more robust.
Nickel-iron [wikipedia.org] batteries have low energy density but are very robust.
I wouldn't want a house battery I'd have to replace every few years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546320</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>virtualXTC</author>
	<datestamp>1261686720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>60 cents per Kw hr?  <a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5\_6\_a.html" title="doe.gov">Not even close according to the department of energy.</a> [doe.gov]  <br>Perhaps the electric company read your sig and are hastily taking their time to correct your bill?</htmltext>
<tokenext>60 cents per Kw hr ?
Not even close according to the department of energy .
[ doe.gov ] Perhaps the electric company read your sig and are hastily taking their time to correct your bill ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>60 cents per Kw hr?
Not even close according to the department of energy.
[doe.gov]  Perhaps the electric company read your sig and are hastily taking their time to correct your bill?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544774</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30546748</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong technology</title>
	<author>DamonHD</author>
	<datestamp>1261647420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1) Size/weight is not irrelevant though it may not be critical: think of people with small flats/apartments.</p><p>2) NiFe has a terrible cycle efficiency and other issues, and needs regular maintenance.  Having strong Potassium Hydroxide around a house full of small children would not be ideal for example.</p><p>Rgds</p><p>Damon</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) Size/weight is not irrelevant though it may not be critical : think of people with small flats/apartments.2 ) NiFe has a terrible cycle efficiency and other issues , and needs regular maintenance .
Having strong Potassium Hydroxide around a house full of small children would not be ideal for example.RgdsDamon</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) Size/weight is not irrelevant though it may not be critical: think of people with small flats/apartments.2) NiFe has a terrible cycle efficiency and other issues, and needs regular maintenance.
Having strong Potassium Hydroxide around a house full of small children would not be ideal for example.RgdsDamon</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544890</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545684</id>
	<title>Re:Boom.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1261681920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://safetravel.dot.gov/definitions.html</p><p>The lithium equivalent calculator on this site suggests<br>That your calculations are a few orders of magnitude<br>Off.</p><blockquote><div><p>Equivalent Lithium Content (ELC). ELC is a measure by which lithium ion batteries are classified. 8 grams of equivalent lithium content are equal to about 100 watt-hours. 25 grams of equivalent lithium content are equal to about 300 watt-hours.</p></div></blockquote><p>So, 80 kg for a battery that holds 1000kWh.<br>Also, we have practically limitless lithium reserves in seawater.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //safetravel.dot.gov/definitions.htmlThe lithium equivalent calculator on this site suggestsThat your calculations are a few orders of magnitudeOff.Equivalent Lithium Content ( ELC ) .
ELC is a measure by which lithium ion batteries are classified .
8 grams of equivalent lithium content are equal to about 100 watt-hours .
25 grams of equivalent lithium content are equal to about 300 watt-hours.So , 80 kg for a battery that holds 1000kWh.Also , we have practically limitless lithium reserves in seawater .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://safetravel.dot.gov/definitions.htmlThe lithium equivalent calculator on this site suggestsThat your calculations are a few orders of magnitudeOff.Equivalent Lithium Content (ELC).
ELC is a measure by which lithium ion batteries are classified.
8 grams of equivalent lithium content are equal to about 100 watt-hours.
25 grams of equivalent lithium content are equal to about 300 watt-hours.So, 80 kg for a battery that holds 1000kWh.Also, we have practically limitless lithium reserves in seawater.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544900</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30547000</id>
	<title>Robert Cringely on home power caching</title>
	<author>alieneye</author>
	<datestamp>1261649940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Robert Cringely had an article about Home batteries a while back. <a href="http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2001/pulpit\_20010510\_000690.html" title="pbs.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2001/pulpit\_20010510\_000690.html</a> [pbs.org]

His idea was a response to the rolling blackouts California was experiencing in 2001. Power would be cached at night to eliminate peaks in demand.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Robert Cringely had an article about Home batteries a while back .
http : //www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2001/pulpit \ _20010510 \ _000690.html [ pbs.org ] His idea was a response to the rolling blackouts California was experiencing in 2001 .
Power would be cached at night to eliminate peaks in demand .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Robert Cringely had an article about Home batteries a while back.
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2001/pulpit\_20010510\_000690.html [pbs.org]

His idea was a response to the rolling blackouts California was experiencing in 2001.
Power would be cached at night to eliminate peaks in demand.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544634</id>
	<title>Re:Uhh....lithium ion?</title>
	<author>iluvcapra</author>
	<datestamp>1261675260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>who would want a partially charged battery when the power goes out for 3 days in the dead of winter?</p></div></blockquote><p>I would, since the status quo is no battery at all.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>who would want a partially charged battery when the power goes out for 3 days in the dead of winter ? I would , since the status quo is no battery at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>who would want a partially charged battery when the power goes out for 3 days in the dead of winter?I would, since the status quo is no battery at all.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544526</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544616</id>
	<title>Re:Tense</title>
	<author>jfengel</author>
	<datestamp>1261675140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Who wrote this?</p> </div><p>Some Guy In A Blog, apparently.  It's attributed to Fumio Ohtsubo, President of Panasonic (under a different, less common spelling) but links to no press releases or speeches.</p><p>Ohtsubo did an interview about Panasonic working on a kind of fuel cell/LiIon hybrid battery and making a $1B investment (in 2012!) in home power systems, including solar.  Here is a link to an actual reputable news source rather than a blogger with poor reading comprehension skills:</p><p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&amp;sid=ajhto3eO4fpM" title="bloomberg.com">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&amp;sid=ajhto3eO4fpM</a> [bloomberg.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who wrote this ?
Some Guy In A Blog , apparently .
It 's attributed to Fumio Ohtsubo , President of Panasonic ( under a different , less common spelling ) but links to no press releases or speeches.Ohtsubo did an interview about Panasonic working on a kind of fuel cell/LiIon hybrid battery and making a $ 1B investment ( in 2012 !
) in home power systems , including solar .
Here is a link to an actual reputable news source rather than a blogger with poor reading comprehension skills : http : //www.bloomberg.com/apps/news ? pid = 20601101&amp;sid = ajhto3eO4fpM [ bloomberg.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who wrote this?
Some Guy In A Blog, apparently.
It's attributed to Fumio Ohtsubo, President of Panasonic (under a different, less common spelling) but links to no press releases or speeches.Ohtsubo did an interview about Panasonic working on a kind of fuel cell/LiIon hybrid battery and making a $1B investment (in 2012!
) in home power systems, including solar.
Here is a link to an actual reputable news source rather than a blogger with poor reading comprehension skills:http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&amp;sid=ajhto3eO4fpM [bloomberg.com]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544530</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545622</id>
	<title>Re:Uhh....lithium ion?</title>
	<author>babyrat</author>
	<datestamp>1261681500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>well, if the battery could support your house for a week with no external power, I for one would love a partially charged (say 75\%) battery if I had no external power for three days.  That'd give a day or two leeway just in case.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>well , if the battery could support your house for a week with no external power , I for one would love a partially charged ( say 75 \ % ) battery if I had no external power for three days .
That 'd give a day or two leeway just in case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>well, if the battery could support your house for a week with no external power, I for one would love a partially charged (say 75\%) battery if I had no external power for three days.
That'd give a day or two leeway just in case.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544526</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_24_1348223_29</id>
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http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545924
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_24_1348223_34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30550388
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30545394
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_24_1348223_10</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_24_1348223_24</id>
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http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544794
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_24_1348223.30544568
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