<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_15_0121259</id>
	<title>The Trial of Terry Childs Begins</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1260882420000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>snydeq writes <i>"Opening arguments were heard today in the trial against IT admin Terry Childs, who was arrested 18 months ago for refusing to hand over passwords to the San Francisco city network. InfoWorld's Paul Venezia, who has been <a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/08/07/18/2349242/The-Inside-Story-On-the-San-Francisco-Network-Hijacking">following the case from the start</a>, <a href="http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/terry-childs-another-christmas-in-jail-988">speculates that the 18-month wait</a> is due to the fact that 'the DA has done no homework on the technical issues in play here and is instead more than willing to use the Frankenstein offense: It's different, so it must be killed.' On the other hand, the city &mdash; which has held Childs on <a href="//yro.slashdot.org/story/09/09/01/2213255/Judge-Wont-Lower-5M-Bail-For-Jailed-SF-IT-Admin">$5 million bail</a> despite having already <a href="//yro.slashdot.org/story/09/08/22/2249221/3-of-4-Charges-Against-Terry-Childs-Dropped">dropped three of the four charges against him</a> &mdash; may have finally figured out 'just how ridiculous the whole scenario is but is too far down the line to pull back the reins and is continuing with the prosecution just to save face,' Venezia writes. The trial is expected to last until mid-March. San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, to whom <a href="//it.slashdot.org/story/08/07/23/1515203/SF-Admin-Gives-Up-Keys-To-Hijacked-City-Network">Childs eventually gave the city's network passwords</a>, will be included in the roster of those who will testify in the case &mdash; one that <a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/09/02/24/2240241/Terry-Childs-Case-Puts-All-Admins-In-Danger">could put all admins in danger</a> should Childs be found guilty of tampering."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>snydeq writes " Opening arguments were heard today in the trial against IT admin Terry Childs , who was arrested 18 months ago for refusing to hand over passwords to the San Francisco city network .
InfoWorld 's Paul Venezia , who has been following the case from the start , speculates that the 18-month wait is due to the fact that 'the DA has done no homework on the technical issues in play here and is instead more than willing to use the Frankenstein offense : It 's different , so it must be killed .
' On the other hand , the city    which has held Childs on $ 5 million bail despite having already dropped three of the four charges against him    may have finally figured out 'just how ridiculous the whole scenario is but is too far down the line to pull back the reins and is continuing with the prosecution just to save face, ' Venezia writes .
The trial is expected to last until mid-March .
San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom , to whom Childs eventually gave the city 's network passwords , will be included in the roster of those who will testify in the case    one that could put all admins in danger should Childs be found guilty of tampering .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>snydeq writes "Opening arguments were heard today in the trial against IT admin Terry Childs, who was arrested 18 months ago for refusing to hand over passwords to the San Francisco city network.
InfoWorld's Paul Venezia, who has been following the case from the start, speculates that the 18-month wait is due to the fact that 'the DA has done no homework on the technical issues in play here and is instead more than willing to use the Frankenstein offense: It's different, so it must be killed.
' On the other hand, the city — which has held Childs on $5 million bail despite having already dropped three of the four charges against him — may have finally figured out 'just how ridiculous the whole scenario is but is too far down the line to pull back the reins and is continuing with the prosecution just to save face,' Venezia writes.
The trial is expected to last until mid-March.
San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, to whom Childs eventually gave the city's network passwords, will be included in the roster of those who will testify in the case — one that could put all admins in danger should Childs be found guilty of tampering.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30442956</id>
	<title>All admins</title>
	<author>RichardJenkins</author>
	<datestamp>1260886320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Surely you mean all admins who refuse to provide passwords when asked by an authorised official at the company they set the passwords for?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Surely you mean all admins who refuse to provide passwords when asked by an authorised official at the company they set the passwords for ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surely you mean all admins who refuse to provide passwords when asked by an authorised official at the company they set the passwords for?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30444628</id>
	<title>Re:anyone here who defends this man</title>
	<author>VShael</author>
	<datestamp>1260894960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I sure as hell hope that you never wind up on a jury for *anyone*.</i></p><p>Your experience may vary, but in my dealings with Americans about 30\% of people think like this gentleman.<br>They are more concerned with punishment for moral abuses or perceived wrongdoings than with what they would call "technical legalities"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I sure as hell hope that you never wind up on a jury for * anyone * .Your experience may vary , but in my dealings with Americans about 30 \ % of people think like this gentleman.They are more concerned with punishment for moral abuses or perceived wrongdoings than with what they would call " technical legalities "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I sure as hell hope that you never wind up on a jury for *anyone*.Your experience may vary, but in my dealings with Americans about 30\% of people think like this gentleman.They are more concerned with punishment for moral abuses or perceived wrongdoings than with what they would call "technical legalities"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443238</id>
	<title>Terry Childs and the female boss</title>
	<author>viralMeme</author>
	<datestamp>1260888300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>"On Friday, June 20, there was an altercation between Childs and <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1132179&amp;cid=26902767" title="slashdot.org">Jeana Pieralde</a> [slashdot.org], the new DTIS security manager at the 1 Market Street datacenter in San Francisco. Until her promotion, she had been a city network engineer who worked with Childs"<br> <br>


Sorting out <a href="http://ca.tech.yahoo.com/news/infoworld/article/453" title="yahoo.com">fact from fiction</a> [yahoo.com] in the Terry Childs case (InfoWorld)<blockquote><div><p>.. the city had claimed it could not access the FiberWAN network's devices. But four days before that bail hearing, the city claimed it had scheduled a power outage at the 1 Market Street datacenter. That power outage would have affected routers and switches running the FiberWAN network.<br> <br>

In the court filing four days later, the city contended that Childs had "booby-trapped" the network to collapse during this power outage by not writing the device configurations to flash on some number of routers. A local news report stated that "experts caught the problem in time and transferred data to permanent files, [Assistant DA Conrad] del Rosario said."<br> <br>

This statement contradicts the city's stance that it had no access to these routers, as there is no way it could have written those configurations to flash, or save them anywhere, on July 19 if it could not access the devices<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" On Friday , June 20 , there was an altercation between Childs and Jeana Pieralde [ slashdot.org ] , the new DTIS security manager at the 1 Market Street datacenter in San Francisco .
Until her promotion , she had been a city network engineer who worked with Childs " Sorting out fact from fiction [ yahoo.com ] in the Terry Childs case ( InfoWorld ) .. the city had claimed it could not access the FiberWAN network 's devices .
But four days before that bail hearing , the city claimed it had scheduled a power outage at the 1 Market Street datacenter .
That power outage would have affected routers and switches running the FiberWAN network .
In the court filing four days later , the city contended that Childs had " booby-trapped " the network to collapse during this power outage by not writing the device configurations to flash on some number of routers .
A local news report stated that " experts caught the problem in time and transferred data to permanent files , [ Assistant DA Conrad ] del Rosario said .
" This statement contradicts the city 's stance that it had no access to these routers , as there is no way it could have written those configurations to flash , or save them anywhere , on July 19 if it could not access the devices . .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"On Friday, June 20, there was an altercation between Childs and Jeana Pieralde [slashdot.org], the new DTIS security manager at the 1 Market Street datacenter in San Francisco.
Until her promotion, she had been a city network engineer who worked with Childs" 


Sorting out fact from fiction [yahoo.com] in the Terry Childs case (InfoWorld).. the city had claimed it could not access the FiberWAN network's devices.
But four days before that bail hearing, the city claimed it had scheduled a power outage at the 1 Market Street datacenter.
That power outage would have affected routers and switches running the FiberWAN network.
In the court filing four days later, the city contended that Childs had "booby-trapped" the network to collapse during this power outage by not writing the device configurations to flash on some number of routers.
A local news report stated that "experts caught the problem in time and transferred data to permanent files, [Assistant DA Conrad] del Rosario said.
" 

This statement contradicts the city's stance that it had no access to these routers, as there is no way it could have written those configurations to flash, or save them anywhere, on July 19 if it could not access the devices ..
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443192</id>
	<title>He was in a catch 22</title>
	<author>onyxruby</author>
	<datestamp>1260887940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was initially very skeptical of Childs until additional information came out about the case that changed the story notably.</p><p>Their policy prohibited Childs from simply handing passwords over to his boss, when asked by the mayor he handed them over as requested. I think the bigger issue is one of policy on security and a lack of industry best practices by the city. What holds the greater weight, policy or your bosses request? Depending on where you work, handing over your passwords to anyone can readily be a criminal infraction. At a minimum they could have asked Childs to create an additional account with full administrative access and that account could then have been used to disable Childs account.</p><p>I know at my employer I am not allowed to share my passwords with anyone, including my supervisor. I have an official backup with equivalent access to myself and my refusal to hand over passwords would not prevent anyone else from taking over for me. If my employer wanted they could simply reset my password and gain access to my account. The issue in San Francisco is there wasn't anyone else who had equivalent access to begin with. Their network was complex and the city had cut to the bone on staffing ahead of time.</p><p>Lessons can be learned from this from a management standpoint, the city took an antagonistic approach and did not update their policy and instead asked Childs to break it. Their security personal should have known industry best practices and instead asked Childs to violate them and hand over his password. Ultimately the case showed incompetence in city management and embarrassed them, and that's the only reason I can think of the city pressed the case.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was initially very skeptical of Childs until additional information came out about the case that changed the story notably.Their policy prohibited Childs from simply handing passwords over to his boss , when asked by the mayor he handed them over as requested .
I think the bigger issue is one of policy on security and a lack of industry best practices by the city .
What holds the greater weight , policy or your bosses request ?
Depending on where you work , handing over your passwords to anyone can readily be a criminal infraction .
At a minimum they could have asked Childs to create an additional account with full administrative access and that account could then have been used to disable Childs account.I know at my employer I am not allowed to share my passwords with anyone , including my supervisor .
I have an official backup with equivalent access to myself and my refusal to hand over passwords would not prevent anyone else from taking over for me .
If my employer wanted they could simply reset my password and gain access to my account .
The issue in San Francisco is there was n't anyone else who had equivalent access to begin with .
Their network was complex and the city had cut to the bone on staffing ahead of time.Lessons can be learned from this from a management standpoint , the city took an antagonistic approach and did not update their policy and instead asked Childs to break it .
Their security personal should have known industry best practices and instead asked Childs to violate them and hand over his password .
Ultimately the case showed incompetence in city management and embarrassed them , and that 's the only reason I can think of the city pressed the case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was initially very skeptical of Childs until additional information came out about the case that changed the story notably.Their policy prohibited Childs from simply handing passwords over to his boss, when asked by the mayor he handed them over as requested.
I think the bigger issue is one of policy on security and a lack of industry best practices by the city.
What holds the greater weight, policy or your bosses request?
Depending on where you work, handing over your passwords to anyone can readily be a criminal infraction.
At a minimum they could have asked Childs to create an additional account with full administrative access and that account could then have been used to disable Childs account.I know at my employer I am not allowed to share my passwords with anyone, including my supervisor.
I have an official backup with equivalent access to myself and my refusal to hand over passwords would not prevent anyone else from taking over for me.
If my employer wanted they could simply reset my password and gain access to my account.
The issue in San Francisco is there wasn't anyone else who had equivalent access to begin with.
Their network was complex and the city had cut to the bone on staffing ahead of time.Lessons can be learned from this from a management standpoint, the city took an antagonistic approach and did not update their policy and instead asked Childs to break it.
Their security personal should have known industry best practices and instead asked Childs to violate them and hand over his password.
Ultimately the case showed incompetence in city management and embarrassed them, and that's the only reason I can think of the city pressed the case.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30449676</id>
	<title>Re:this is why governments are outsourcing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260871140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you even READ this story?  In a nutshell, the fellow was authorized to surrender the passwords only to the mayor, he was asked for the passwords by one of his superiors (not the mayor), he refused, and was then fired.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you even READ this story ?
In a nutshell , the fellow was authorized to surrender the passwords only to the mayor , he was asked for the passwords by one of his superiors ( not the mayor ) , he refused , and was then fired .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you even READ this story?
In a nutshell, the fellow was authorized to surrender the passwords only to the mayor, he was asked for the passwords by one of his superiors (not the mayor), he refused, and was then fired.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443114</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30444948</id>
	<title>Re:If he wins will he have to retest for certifica</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1260896100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hopefully the next employer will know the details of this story (as they will be directly related to the line of work he manages) and will know that Terry was following policy by not divulging passwords to anyone but the Mayor... Which he did at the first instance of being asked by them.<br> <br>This man sounds like he takes pride in having everything done by the book, and doesn't bodge or workaround issues which shouldn't be worked around. Ideal admin, IMHO.<br> <br>You can bet that his documentation of the infrastructure he managed is pristine.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hopefully the next employer will know the details of this story ( as they will be directly related to the line of work he manages ) and will know that Terry was following policy by not divulging passwords to anyone but the Mayor... Which he did at the first instance of being asked by them .
This man sounds like he takes pride in having everything done by the book , and does n't bodge or workaround issues which should n't be worked around .
Ideal admin , IMHO .
You can bet that his documentation of the infrastructure he managed is pristine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hopefully the next employer will know the details of this story (as they will be directly related to the line of work he manages) and will know that Terry was following policy by not divulging passwords to anyone but the Mayor... Which he did at the first instance of being asked by them.
This man sounds like he takes pride in having everything done by the book, and doesn't bodge or workaround issues which shouldn't be worked around.
Ideal admin, IMHO.
You can bet that his documentation of the infrastructure he managed is pristine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443176</id>
	<title>liars touts &amp; shills, oh my</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260887820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>mynuts won; way out of line, trolling for spirits</p><p>the head in the sand approach to consideration for others/the future is definitely going to be costly/fatal for many.</p><p>water will be the next 'commodity' used to control our behaviours, as we suffocate ourselves. it's not hard to figure which will be the next 'hot commodity' after our water.</p><p>meanwhile, go jump into your CO factory &amp; go for a spin. you may be right in that it may not matter anymore. we've heard though, that where there's life, there's hope.</p><p>the lights are coming up all over now. get ready to join the creators' wwwildly popular newclear powered planet/population rescue initiative/mandate. it's way user friendly (foolproof), &amp; there's never any liesense fees.</p><p>there is absolutely nowhere left to hide.</p><p>this post was deleted from earlier storIEs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>mynuts won ; way out of line , trolling for spiritsthe head in the sand approach to consideration for others/the future is definitely going to be costly/fatal for many.water will be the next 'commodity ' used to control our behaviours , as we suffocate ourselves .
it 's not hard to figure which will be the next 'hot commodity ' after our water.meanwhile , go jump into your CO factory &amp; go for a spin .
you may be right in that it may not matter anymore .
we 've heard though , that where there 's life , there 's hope.the lights are coming up all over now .
get ready to join the creators ' wwwildly popular newclear powered planet/population rescue initiative/mandate .
it 's way user friendly ( foolproof ) , &amp; there 's never any liesense fees.there is absolutely nowhere left to hide.this post was deleted from earlier storIEs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>mynuts won; way out of line, trolling for spiritsthe head in the sand approach to consideration for others/the future is definitely going to be costly/fatal for many.water will be the next 'commodity' used to control our behaviours, as we suffocate ourselves.
it's not hard to figure which will be the next 'hot commodity' after our water.meanwhile, go jump into your CO factory &amp; go for a spin.
you may be right in that it may not matter anymore.
we've heard though, that where there's life, there's hope.the lights are coming up all over now.
get ready to join the creators' wwwildly popular newclear powered planet/population rescue initiative/mandate.
it's way user friendly (foolproof), &amp; there's never any liesense fees.there is absolutely nowhere left to hide.this post was deleted from earlier storIEs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443274</id>
	<title>dont overblow the outcome</title>
	<author>falcon5768</author>
	<datestamp>1260888480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The simple fact is this guy IS guilty of one major (though not legal) flaw. He didnt THINK about the situation, and instead of handing the passwords over, BUT documenting EVERYTHING, he decided to be an ass about it. He had a very valid reason to be an ass, but he should have washed his hands of it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The simple fact is this guy IS guilty of one major ( though not legal ) flaw .
He didnt THINK about the situation , and instead of handing the passwords over , BUT documenting EVERYTHING , he decided to be an ass about it .
He had a very valid reason to be an ass , but he should have washed his hands of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The simple fact is this guy IS guilty of one major (though not legal) flaw.
He didnt THINK about the situation, and instead of handing the passwords over, BUT documenting EVERYTHING, he decided to be an ass about it.
He had a very valid reason to be an ass, but he should have washed his hands of it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30456964</id>
	<title>Re:Terry Childs and the female boss</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259679540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The power outage tale was proven false, and affidavits and testimony by the building maintenance supervisors stated that Childs' gear was not going to lose power, only the cubicles outside the datacenter.</p><p>In other words, that's total bullshit. There's a link to this information in TFA. Read moar.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The power outage tale was proven false , and affidavits and testimony by the building maintenance supervisors stated that Childs ' gear was not going to lose power , only the cubicles outside the datacenter.In other words , that 's total bullshit .
There 's a link to this information in TFA .
Read moar .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The power outage tale was proven false, and affidavits and testimony by the building maintenance supervisors stated that Childs' gear was not going to lose power, only the cubicles outside the datacenter.In other words, that's total bullshit.
There's a link to this information in TFA.
Read moar.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443928</id>
	<title>His manager is just as guilty</title>
	<author>Mathinker</author>
	<datestamp>1260891720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; child's job description did not include the self-appointed position of deciding himself who should have access to the network configuration</p><p>You are probably correct. But his contract/terms of employment <i>should</i> have been such that the city could sue him for the $125k/yr he was getting paid in the case that he changed the passwords from a configuration known to the city (to deal with the case that he would die unexpectedly). I have a suspicion that the city wasn't smart enough to make turning over the network administration (or at least having a contingency plan for the event that Childs would die) a contractual condition of properly finishing the work of designing the network.</p><p>In simple words, his manager(s) were also incompetent. But they aren't going to be looking at jail for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; child 's job description did not include the self-appointed position of deciding himself who should have access to the network configurationYou are probably correct .
But his contract/terms of employment should have been such that the city could sue him for the $ 125k/yr he was getting paid in the case that he changed the passwords from a configuration known to the city ( to deal with the case that he would die unexpectedly ) .
I have a suspicion that the city was n't smart enough to make turning over the network administration ( or at least having a contingency plan for the event that Childs would die ) a contractual condition of properly finishing the work of designing the network.In simple words , his manager ( s ) were also incompetent .
But they are n't going to be looking at jail for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; child's job description did not include the self-appointed position of deciding himself who should have access to the network configurationYou are probably correct.
But his contract/terms of employment should have been such that the city could sue him for the $125k/yr he was getting paid in the case that he changed the passwords from a configuration known to the city (to deal with the case that he would die unexpectedly).
I have a suspicion that the city wasn't smart enough to make turning over the network administration (or at least having a contingency plan for the event that Childs would die) a contractual condition of properly finishing the work of designing the network.In simple words, his manager(s) were also incompetent.
But they aren't going to be looking at jail for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443114</id>
	<title>this is why governments are outsourcing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260887400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>between this genius who thought everything belonged to him and people like I met in my 1 year of working as a consultant for a government agency it's not wonder government is outsourcing. i met this one admin years ago who refused to let his NT domain be part of the larger NT network and it caused all kinds of permissions issues. funny thing was that because of the union rules they couldn't make him do it. and the only reason he refused to let his NT domain work with the others in the organization is because he wanted his own private island to manage that the other admins above him couldn't touch.</p><p>so now i get daily emails about how LA and other local governments are going with Google Apps and Gmail. I bet a lot of it has to do with the fact that they can let their unionized admins rot in a hole doing nothing while progress happens</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>between this genius who thought everything belonged to him and people like I met in my 1 year of working as a consultant for a government agency it 's not wonder government is outsourcing .
i met this one admin years ago who refused to let his NT domain be part of the larger NT network and it caused all kinds of permissions issues .
funny thing was that because of the union rules they could n't make him do it .
and the only reason he refused to let his NT domain work with the others in the organization is because he wanted his own private island to manage that the other admins above him could n't touch.so now i get daily emails about how LA and other local governments are going with Google Apps and Gmail .
I bet a lot of it has to do with the fact that they can let their unionized admins rot in a hole doing nothing while progress happens</tokentext>
<sentencetext>between this genius who thought everything belonged to him and people like I met in my 1 year of working as a consultant for a government agency it's not wonder government is outsourcing.
i met this one admin years ago who refused to let his NT domain be part of the larger NT network and it caused all kinds of permissions issues.
funny thing was that because of the union rules they couldn't make him do it.
and the only reason he refused to let his NT domain work with the others in the organization is because he wanted his own private island to manage that the other admins above him couldn't touch.so now i get daily emails about how LA and other local governments are going with Google Apps and Gmail.
I bet a lot of it has to do with the fact that they can let their unionized admins rot in a hole doing nothing while progress happens</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443054</id>
	<title>Re:All admins</title>
	<author>tdobson</author>
	<datestamp>1260887040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is a potential for problems if a very manager with very insecure security tendencies asks a sysadmin for very important passwords. In some circumstances, the sysadmin might feel justified not handing the passwords over as it would compromise the security of the existing system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is a potential for problems if a very manager with very insecure security tendencies asks a sysadmin for very important passwords .
In some circumstances , the sysadmin might feel justified not handing the passwords over as it would compromise the security of the existing system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is a potential for problems if a very manager with very insecure security tendencies asks a sysadmin for very important passwords.
In some circumstances, the sysadmin might feel justified not handing the passwords over as it would compromise the security of the existing system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30442956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30447618</id>
	<title>Re:Idiots</title>
	<author>shinehead</author>
	<datestamp>1260905040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The analogy I can think of is if a long haul truck driver refused to hand his keys over if he was fired, thereby denying the owner access to the equipment. In such a situation would the driver be jailed?

The SF IT Dept should have contingency plans for this, TACACS, for example.

I have come close to being in a Kafkaesque situation similar to this, almost fired because I was alleged to have overhead a coworker confess viewing confidential information. Its amazing how management with an agenda can create a shitstorm for a person without having any factual, legal, or moral substantiation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The analogy I can think of is if a long haul truck driver refused to hand his keys over if he was fired , thereby denying the owner access to the equipment .
In such a situation would the driver be jailed ?
The SF IT Dept should have contingency plans for this , TACACS , for example .
I have come close to being in a Kafkaesque situation similar to this , almost fired because I was alleged to have overhead a coworker confess viewing confidential information .
Its amazing how management with an agenda can create a shitstorm for a person without having any factual , legal , or moral substantiation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The analogy I can think of is if a long haul truck driver refused to hand his keys over if he was fired, thereby denying the owner access to the equipment.
In such a situation would the driver be jailed?
The SF IT Dept should have contingency plans for this, TACACS, for example.
I have come close to being in a Kafkaesque situation similar to this, almost fired because I was alleged to have overhead a coworker confess viewing confidential information.
Its amazing how management with an agenda can create a shitstorm for a person without having any factual, legal, or moral substantiation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30442948</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443400</id>
	<title>Incompetent Imbeciles</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260889200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I thought someone said it best when they said<blockquote><div><p> <i>"Terry Childs nearly built the San Francisco computer network by himself, to the point of actually filing for copyright on his design of the network. Management in the San Francisco IT department apparently couldn't fathom half of what he was doing and Terry Childs himself called them incompetent on numerous occasions, which is pretty much what the sole standing charge is all about. Refusing to hand over the network to incompetent imbeciles."<i> <br> <a href="http://blogs.computerworld.com/14592/good\_news\_for\_jailed\_sf\_net\_admin\_terry\_childs" title="computerworld.com" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.computerworld.com/14592/good\_news\_for\_jailed\_sf\_net\_admin\_terry\_childs</a> [computerworld.com]</i></i></p></div> </blockquote><p>
I'm not defending Childs' decision to hand over the passwords when asked, but I can sure see his perspective on it. As a consulting network engineer, I've frequently been put in the position of having to decide whether giving someone the keys to the kingdom will put the kingdom at too great a risk.<br>
<br>
The problem here is that there was not a documented policy on passwords. As a former government IT employee, we had a documented policy concerning passwords. They were all documented in a password-protected spreadsheet kept on a server that only admins had the access and technical skills to get to. They weren't withheld, per se, they were just in a place that was inconvenient to get to unless there was an emergency situation that required the inconvenience.<br>
<br>
The impression I get is that San Francisco's IT department had old-timers waiting for their retirement date and their pensions to mature. They were stuck in the days of mainframes, modems, and 8088's. Here comes Terry Childs, who has not only a clue but a plan for getting them into the 90's, if not the 21st century. He intimidates his superiors because he knows what he's doing, and they don't. He builds a network for the city that his peers should be proud of. Instead they are intimidated. They ask for passwords, and he politely refuses to give over until they understand the enormity of what those passwords do. They get mad and accuse him of hacking.<br>
<br>
The worst thing about this case is that Terry Childs did nothing wrong, other than withholding the passwords too long. He's intelligent. He intimidated people with his intelligence. They couldn't fire him without cause, so they created a cause by insisting that he was hacking, even though the evidence does not show this.<br>
<br>
The insult to injury here is that by dragging this out, the San Francisco IT department is just putting more egg on their face. Anyone following the case can see that they were incompetent and Terry Childs was trying to protect them from their incompetence. His crime was not knowing when he'd lost the game at the key moment.<br>
<br>
Were I living in San Francisco, I'd want an audit of the technical skills of the IT department. It sure sounds to me like there are some people that need some training. If they can't learn from the training, reassignment. If they can't be reassigned, early retirement. But for all that's good and holy, get the incompetence out of the IT departments!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought someone said it best when they said " Terry Childs nearly built the San Francisco computer network by himself , to the point of actually filing for copyright on his design of the network .
Management in the San Francisco IT department apparently could n't fathom half of what he was doing and Terry Childs himself called them incompetent on numerous occasions , which is pretty much what the sole standing charge is all about .
Refusing to hand over the network to incompetent imbeciles .
" http : //blogs.computerworld.com/14592/good \ _news \ _for \ _jailed \ _sf \ _net \ _admin \ _terry \ _childs [ computerworld.com ] I 'm not defending Childs ' decision to hand over the passwords when asked , but I can sure see his perspective on it .
As a consulting network engineer , I 've frequently been put in the position of having to decide whether giving someone the keys to the kingdom will put the kingdom at too great a risk .
The problem here is that there was not a documented policy on passwords .
As a former government IT employee , we had a documented policy concerning passwords .
They were all documented in a password-protected spreadsheet kept on a server that only admins had the access and technical skills to get to .
They were n't withheld , per se , they were just in a place that was inconvenient to get to unless there was an emergency situation that required the inconvenience .
The impression I get is that San Francisco 's IT department had old-timers waiting for their retirement date and their pensions to mature .
They were stuck in the days of mainframes , modems , and 8088 's .
Here comes Terry Childs , who has not only a clue but a plan for getting them into the 90 's , if not the 21st century .
He intimidates his superiors because he knows what he 's doing , and they do n't .
He builds a network for the city that his peers should be proud of .
Instead they are intimidated .
They ask for passwords , and he politely refuses to give over until they understand the enormity of what those passwords do .
They get mad and accuse him of hacking .
The worst thing about this case is that Terry Childs did nothing wrong , other than withholding the passwords too long .
He 's intelligent .
He intimidated people with his intelligence .
They could n't fire him without cause , so they created a cause by insisting that he was hacking , even though the evidence does not show this .
The insult to injury here is that by dragging this out , the San Francisco IT department is just putting more egg on their face .
Anyone following the case can see that they were incompetent and Terry Childs was trying to protect them from their incompetence .
His crime was not knowing when he 'd lost the game at the key moment .
Were I living in San Francisco , I 'd want an audit of the technical skills of the IT department .
It sure sounds to me like there are some people that need some training .
If they ca n't learn from the training , reassignment .
If they ca n't be reassigned , early retirement .
But for all that 's good and holy , get the incompetence out of the IT departments !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought someone said it best when they said "Terry Childs nearly built the San Francisco computer network by himself, to the point of actually filing for copyright on his design of the network.
Management in the San Francisco IT department apparently couldn't fathom half of what he was doing and Terry Childs himself called them incompetent on numerous occasions, which is pretty much what the sole standing charge is all about.
Refusing to hand over the network to incompetent imbeciles.
"  http://blogs.computerworld.com/14592/good\_news\_for\_jailed\_sf\_net\_admin\_terry\_childs [computerworld.com] 
I'm not defending Childs' decision to hand over the passwords when asked, but I can sure see his perspective on it.
As a consulting network engineer, I've frequently been put in the position of having to decide whether giving someone the keys to the kingdom will put the kingdom at too great a risk.
The problem here is that there was not a documented policy on passwords.
As a former government IT employee, we had a documented policy concerning passwords.
They were all documented in a password-protected spreadsheet kept on a server that only admins had the access and technical skills to get to.
They weren't withheld, per se, they were just in a place that was inconvenient to get to unless there was an emergency situation that required the inconvenience.
The impression I get is that San Francisco's IT department had old-timers waiting for their retirement date and their pensions to mature.
They were stuck in the days of mainframes, modems, and 8088's.
Here comes Terry Childs, who has not only a clue but a plan for getting them into the 90's, if not the 21st century.
He intimidates his superiors because he knows what he's doing, and they don't.
He builds a network for the city that his peers should be proud of.
Instead they are intimidated.
They ask for passwords, and he politely refuses to give over until they understand the enormity of what those passwords do.
They get mad and accuse him of hacking.
The worst thing about this case is that Terry Childs did nothing wrong, other than withholding the passwords too long.
He's intelligent.
He intimidated people with his intelligence.
They couldn't fire him without cause, so they created a cause by insisting that he was hacking, even though the evidence does not show this.
The insult to injury here is that by dragging this out, the San Francisco IT department is just putting more egg on their face.
Anyone following the case can see that they were incompetent and Terry Childs was trying to protect them from their incompetence.
His crime was not knowing when he'd lost the game at the key moment.
Were I living in San Francisco, I'd want an audit of the technical skills of the IT department.
It sure sounds to me like there are some people that need some training.
If they can't learn from the training, reassignment.
If they can't be reassigned, early retirement.
But for all that's good and holy, get the incompetence out of the IT departments!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443076</id>
	<title>Has rule of law always been a farce?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260887220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>'just how ridiculous the whole scenario is but is too far down the line to pull back the reins and is continuing with the prosecution just to save face,'</p><p>How common a scenario!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'just how ridiculous the whole scenario is but is too far down the line to pull back the reins and is continuing with the prosecution just to save face,'How common a scenario !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'just how ridiculous the whole scenario is but is too far down the line to pull back the reins and is continuing with the prosecution just to save face,'How common a scenario!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30445246</id>
	<title>Re:anyone here who defends this man</title>
	<author>vegiVamp</author>
	<datestamp>1260897120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>&gt; child's job description did not include the self-appointed position of deciding himself who should have access to the network configuration of a public utility.<br><br>Correct. District policy, however, apparently included providing the password to the mayor, and ONLY to the mayor. This is exactly what he did.</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; child 's job description did not include the self-appointed position of deciding himself who should have access to the network configuration of a public utility.Correct .
District policy , however , apparently included providing the password to the mayor , and ONLY to the mayor .
This is exactly what he did .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; child's job description did not include the self-appointed position of deciding himself who should have access to the network configuration of a public utility.Correct.
District policy, however, apparently included providing the password to the mayor, and ONLY to the mayor.
This is exactly what he did.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443540</id>
	<title>Re:anyone here who defends this man</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260889920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is your shift key broken?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is your shift key broken ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is your shift key broken?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443202</id>
	<title>Wouldn't have waterboarding been better for all?</title>
	<author>tjstork</author>
	<datestamp>1260888000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they would have just threatened to waterboard the guy, and let him walk after he gave up the passwords, there would have been no harm, no foul, and no need to waste the taxpayers money putting a frazzled worker in jail.</p><p>We're all getting frazzled these days, and maybe we need to realize that, take a deep breath, and stop tossing everyone in jail and tearing people down left and right in all arenas, and try and claw our way back to being a civilized people.</p><p>Right now, I think we are all acting like animals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they would have just threatened to waterboard the guy , and let him walk after he gave up the passwords , there would have been no harm , no foul , and no need to waste the taxpayers money putting a frazzled worker in jail.We 're all getting frazzled these days , and maybe we need to realize that , take a deep breath , and stop tossing everyone in jail and tearing people down left and right in all arenas , and try and claw our way back to being a civilized people.Right now , I think we are all acting like animals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they would have just threatened to waterboard the guy, and let him walk after he gave up the passwords, there would have been no harm, no foul, and no need to waste the taxpayers money putting a frazzled worker in jail.We're all getting frazzled these days, and maybe we need to realize that, take a deep breath, and stop tossing everyone in jail and tearing people down left and right in all arenas, and try and claw our way back to being a civilized people.Right now, I think we are all acting like animals.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443576</id>
	<title>tubgirNl</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260890100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>and other party tRut4, for all</htmltext>
<tokenext>and other party tRut4 , for all</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and other party tRut4, for all</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443092</id>
	<title>Everyone Just Settle Down</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260887280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>everyone just settle down and find a nice, hot, tight, wet vagina to have fun with tonight. Forget about Terry Childs and think about your own Childs to make.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>everyone just settle down and find a nice , hot , tight , wet vagina to have fun with tonight .
Forget about Terry Childs and think about your own Childs to make .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>everyone just settle down and find a nice, hot, tight, wet vagina to have fun with tonight.
Forget about Terry Childs and think about your own Childs to make.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443782</id>
	<title>Passwords...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260891000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I once had a coworker who worked for the IT department for a rural Bible-belt school district. Upon her resignation, her boss demanded her password. She refused to give it up and resigned anyway.</p><p>I used to be the sysadmin and PC Support teacher for a high school. The incompetent/power-tripped Web design teacher, on the first day of class, made all the students divulge their domain passwords to her. Well, one of her students also had me for PC Support, and he knew damn well to never divulge a password, and he refused to give it up. He never got his grade docked for it, but if he did, I would have been in the guidance office with him, going to bat for him, pointing out that the Web design teacher has zero business keeping students' passwords on file.</p><p>Fortunately, this never happened. More fortunately, the principal might have been an incompetent boob, but the assistant principal for curriculum was a former IT director and knew his stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I once had a coworker who worked for the IT department for a rural Bible-belt school district .
Upon her resignation , her boss demanded her password .
She refused to give it up and resigned anyway.I used to be the sysadmin and PC Support teacher for a high school .
The incompetent/power-tripped Web design teacher , on the first day of class , made all the students divulge their domain passwords to her .
Well , one of her students also had me for PC Support , and he knew damn well to never divulge a password , and he refused to give it up .
He never got his grade docked for it , but if he did , I would have been in the guidance office with him , going to bat for him , pointing out that the Web design teacher has zero business keeping students ' passwords on file.Fortunately , this never happened .
More fortunately , the principal might have been an incompetent boob , but the assistant principal for curriculum was a former IT director and knew his stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I once had a coworker who worked for the IT department for a rural Bible-belt school district.
Upon her resignation, her boss demanded her password.
She refused to give it up and resigned anyway.I used to be the sysadmin and PC Support teacher for a high school.
The incompetent/power-tripped Web design teacher, on the first day of class, made all the students divulge their domain passwords to her.
Well, one of her students also had me for PC Support, and he knew damn well to never divulge a password, and he refused to give it up.
He never got his grade docked for it, but if he did, I would have been in the guidance office with him, going to bat for him, pointing out that the Web design teacher has zero business keeping students' passwords on file.Fortunately, this never happened.
More fortunately, the principal might have been an incompetent boob, but the assistant principal for curriculum was a former IT director and knew his stuff.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443138</id>
	<title>Use the backups</title>
	<author>ActiveMan</author>
	<datestamp>1260887580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why they don't just restore the system from a backup in which the rest of passwords were not locked? Probably no too much information will be loosed in this case.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why they do n't just restore the system from a backup in which the rest of passwords were not locked ?
Probably no too much information will be loosed in this case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why they don't just restore the system from a backup in which the rest of passwords were not locked?
Probably no too much information will be loosed in this case.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30446806</id>
	<title>Re:Idiots</title>
	<author>dougmc</author>
	<datestamp>1260902100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In general I support Terry's decision as well.  However, if it were me, I'd never have let it get this far.

<p>

Once they talk about firing me or having me arrested (!), or even once somebody of high enough rank asks for it, I write down why it's inappropriate, that I'm doing it under duress, and give that to them and HR along with the passwords.  Then I get another job, because obviously this one sucks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In general I support Terry 's decision as well .
However , if it were me , I 'd never have let it get this far .
Once they talk about firing me or having me arrested ( !
) , or even once somebody of high enough rank asks for it , I write down why it 's inappropriate , that I 'm doing it under duress , and give that to them and HR along with the passwords .
Then I get another job , because obviously this one sucks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In general I support Terry's decision as well.
However, if it were me, I'd never have let it get this far.
Once they talk about firing me or having me arrested (!
), or even once somebody of high enough rank asks for it, I write down why it's inappropriate, that I'm doing it under duress, and give that to them and HR along with the passwords.
Then I get another job, because obviously this one sucks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30444002</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443174</id>
	<title>Network Design?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260887820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why was the network designed so that one single account (or password) held the keys the kingdom?  That's just stupid.</p><p>"Administrator" groups for Windows machines<br>Multiple root SSH keys and/or Kerberos logins for Unix boxen<br>TACACS user-based authentication for routers.</p><p>If the dude just left and said "I'm done with you folks, no I'm not handing over my passwords", then fine...go into the user admin system, nuke his passwords and get on with your life.</p><p>If the dude deliberately went in and reset passwords and changed network access before walking and then tried to blackmail the city, then that's sabotage/blackmail/downright illegal and should be punished.</p><p>If the dude walked out without giving passwords to anyone and the system was poorly designed so that admin passwords had to be forcefully recovered via single user mode or the like, then the city should just eat crow, lick their wounds, and install a real network AAA system.</p><p>What would have happened if the dude had been run over by a beer truck on the way to work?  Would the city have been screwed as well?</p><p>Dude.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why was the network designed so that one single account ( or password ) held the keys the kingdom ?
That 's just stupid .
" Administrator " groups for Windows machinesMultiple root SSH keys and/or Kerberos logins for Unix boxenTACACS user-based authentication for routers.If the dude just left and said " I 'm done with you folks , no I 'm not handing over my passwords " , then fine...go into the user admin system , nuke his passwords and get on with your life.If the dude deliberately went in and reset passwords and changed network access before walking and then tried to blackmail the city , then that 's sabotage/blackmail/downright illegal and should be punished.If the dude walked out without giving passwords to anyone and the system was poorly designed so that admin passwords had to be forcefully recovered via single user mode or the like , then the city should just eat crow , lick their wounds , and install a real network AAA system.What would have happened if the dude had been run over by a beer truck on the way to work ?
Would the city have been screwed as well ? Dude .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why was the network designed so that one single account (or password) held the keys the kingdom?
That's just stupid.
"Administrator" groups for Windows machinesMultiple root SSH keys and/or Kerberos logins for Unix boxenTACACS user-based authentication for routers.If the dude just left and said "I'm done with you folks, no I'm not handing over my passwords", then fine...go into the user admin system, nuke his passwords and get on with your life.If the dude deliberately went in and reset passwords and changed network access before walking and then tried to blackmail the city, then that's sabotage/blackmail/downright illegal and should be punished.If the dude walked out without giving passwords to anyone and the system was poorly designed so that admin passwords had to be forcefully recovered via single user mode or the like, then the city should just eat crow, lick their wounds, and install a real network AAA system.What would have happened if the dude had been run over by a beer truck on the way to work?
Would the city have been screwed as well?Dude.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30448032</id>
	<title>Re:this is why governments are outsourcing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260906780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>keep your subtle anti-union propagandist crap out of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>keep your subtle anti-union propagandist crap out of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>keep your subtle anti-union propagandist crap out of it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443114</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30444214</id>
	<title>Better Efficiency</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1260893040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>so now i get daily emails about how LA and other local governments are going with Google Apps and Gmail. I bet a lot of it has to do with the fact that they can let their unionized admins rot in a hole doing nothing while progress happens</i></p><p>That's OK.  If one accepts the premise that a good work environment (some say Google has one) improves productivity, then the end result should be really happy IT folks providing great service at an unbeatable price.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so now i get daily emails about how LA and other local governments are going with Google Apps and Gmail .
I bet a lot of it has to do with the fact that they can let their unionized admins rot in a hole doing nothing while progress happensThat 's OK. If one accepts the premise that a good work environment ( some say Google has one ) improves productivity , then the end result should be really happy IT folks providing great service at an unbeatable price .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so now i get daily emails about how LA and other local governments are going with Google Apps and Gmail.
I bet a lot of it has to do with the fact that they can let their unionized admins rot in a hole doing nothing while progress happensThat's OK.  If one accepts the premise that a good work environment (some say Google has one) improves productivity, then the end result should be really happy IT folks providing great service at an unbeatable price.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443114</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30448526</id>
	<title>Re:dont overblow the outcome</title>
	<author>Fulcrum of Evil</author>
	<datestamp>1260908760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The simple fact is this guy IS guilty of one major (though not legal) flaw. He didnt THINK about the situation, and instead of handing the passwords over, BUT documenting EVERYTHING, he decided to be an ass about it. He had a very valid reason to be an ass, but he should have washed his hands of it.</p></div><p>By ass, you mean following his contract, right?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The simple fact is this guy IS guilty of one major ( though not legal ) flaw .
He didnt THINK about the situation , and instead of handing the passwords over , BUT documenting EVERYTHING , he decided to be an ass about it .
He had a very valid reason to be an ass , but he should have washed his hands of it.By ass , you mean following his contract , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The simple fact is this guy IS guilty of one major (though not legal) flaw.
He didnt THINK about the situation, and instead of handing the passwords over, BUT documenting EVERYTHING, he decided to be an ass about it.
He had a very valid reason to be an ass, but he should have washed his hands of it.By ass, you mean following his contract, right?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30463594</id>
	<title>Childs was being fired</title>
	<author>deananderson</author>
	<datestamp>1259660820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The comments to date seem to ignore the fact that Childs was being fired, and THEN refused to hand over the passwords. Suppose a police officer refuses to hand over his gun and badge, and keys to the jail when fired, but decides to hold the whole town hostage to his physical control over the gun and jail?   We would pretty quickly label that (former) police officer  a terrorist, and pretty quickly get state and federal aid to retake control of the town. Similarly, Childs has held the City hostage by refusing to turn over the passwords. I'd call that cyber-terrorism. I wouldn't feel too sorry for him if they put him in Guantanamo.  I've been in this industry for 20+ years, and its just crazy to think that one can prevent being fired (and force firing the supervisor instead) by refusing to turn over the passwords.  That nonsense about the "Mayor" is just nonsense:  Child's supervisor is the authorized, delegated representative of the Mayor. This dispute wasn't about getting an audience with the Mayor. My view is that Childs was trying to force them to fire the supervisor and to employ him.  The City's only mistake was to allow the situation that only one person has the passwords.  One person is just not that trustworthy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The comments to date seem to ignore the fact that Childs was being fired , and THEN refused to hand over the passwords .
Suppose a police officer refuses to hand over his gun and badge , and keys to the jail when fired , but decides to hold the whole town hostage to his physical control over the gun and jail ?
We would pretty quickly label that ( former ) police officer a terrorist , and pretty quickly get state and federal aid to retake control of the town .
Similarly , Childs has held the City hostage by refusing to turn over the passwords .
I 'd call that cyber-terrorism .
I would n't feel too sorry for him if they put him in Guantanamo .
I 've been in this industry for 20 + years , and its just crazy to think that one can prevent being fired ( and force firing the supervisor instead ) by refusing to turn over the passwords .
That nonsense about the " Mayor " is just nonsense : Child 's supervisor is the authorized , delegated representative of the Mayor .
This dispute was n't about getting an audience with the Mayor .
My view is that Childs was trying to force them to fire the supervisor and to employ him .
The City 's only mistake was to allow the situation that only one person has the passwords .
One person is just not that trustworthy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The comments to date seem to ignore the fact that Childs was being fired, and THEN refused to hand over the passwords.
Suppose a police officer refuses to hand over his gun and badge, and keys to the jail when fired, but decides to hold the whole town hostage to his physical control over the gun and jail?
We would pretty quickly label that (former) police officer  a terrorist, and pretty quickly get state and federal aid to retake control of the town.
Similarly, Childs has held the City hostage by refusing to turn over the passwords.
I'd call that cyber-terrorism.
I wouldn't feel too sorry for him if they put him in Guantanamo.
I've been in this industry for 20+ years, and its just crazy to think that one can prevent being fired (and force firing the supervisor instead) by refusing to turn over the passwords.
That nonsense about the "Mayor" is just nonsense:  Child's supervisor is the authorized, delegated representative of the Mayor.
This dispute wasn't about getting an audience with the Mayor.
My view is that Childs was trying to force them to fire the supervisor and to employ him.
The City's only mistake was to allow the situation that only one person has the passwords.
One person is just not that trustworthy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30449248</id>
	<title>Re:Network Design?</title>
	<author>\_nderscore</author>
	<datestamp>1260869220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Exactly! Some managerial responsibility is in order. It's complete IDIOCY to not have a well-defined password management system in place &amp; even more stupid to not have a series of contingencies in order. After all, THIS IS A FUCKING CIVIC INFRASTRUCTURE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT! For his part, Childs should not have even wanted to be the sole keeper of the passwords, although brilliant for job security, I guess. The fact that there was no oversight (i.e. no one smart enough to know what the fuck was going on) is just plain scary. Even scarier is that the guy has wasted part of his life in prison for it. seriously-wtf?!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly !
Some managerial responsibility is in order .
It 's complete IDIOCY to not have a well-defined password management system in place &amp; even more stupid to not have a series of contingencies in order .
After all , THIS IS A FUCKING CIVIC INFRASTRUCTURE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT !
For his part , Childs should not have even wanted to be the sole keeper of the passwords , although brilliant for job security , I guess .
The fact that there was no oversight ( i.e .
no one smart enough to know what the fuck was going on ) is just plain scary .
Even scarier is that the guy has wasted part of his life in prison for it .
seriously-wtf ? !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly!
Some managerial responsibility is in order.
It's complete IDIOCY to not have a well-defined password management system in place &amp; even more stupid to not have a series of contingencies in order.
After all, THIS IS A FUCKING CIVIC INFRASTRUCTURE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT!
For his part, Childs should not have even wanted to be the sole keeper of the passwords, although brilliant for job security, I guess.
The fact that there was no oversight (i.e.
no one smart enough to know what the fuck was going on) is just plain scary.
Even scarier is that the guy has wasted part of his life in prison for it.
seriously-wtf?!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443174</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443066</id>
	<title>Of course we all know RMS's stance on this:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260887160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Down with security!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Down with security !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Down with security!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30444380</id>
	<title>Re:He was in a catch 22</title>
	<author>canajin56</author>
	<datestamp>1260893880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The bigger question is, what exactly was he arrested for?  Because they reqested the password of him via teleconference, as you said, but his side of the conference was inside a police interrogation room.  He was already under arrest for something before they ever asked for the password.  He made a fatal mistake that's cost him EVERYTHING, and that was following company policy.  Always do whatever your boss says, especially if your boss had you arrested and all your possessions seized before he asked!  The guy is an idiot.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The bigger question is , what exactly was he arrested for ?
Because they reqested the password of him via teleconference , as you said , but his side of the conference was inside a police interrogation room .
He was already under arrest for something before they ever asked for the password .
He made a fatal mistake that 's cost him EVERYTHING , and that was following company policy .
Always do whatever your boss says , especially if your boss had you arrested and all your possessions seized before he asked !
The guy is an idiot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The bigger question is, what exactly was he arrested for?
Because they reqested the password of him via teleconference, as you said, but his side of the conference was inside a police interrogation room.
He was already under arrest for something before they ever asked for the password.
He made a fatal mistake that's cost him EVERYTHING, and that was following company policy.
Always do whatever your boss says, especially if your boss had you arrested and all your possessions seized before he asked!
The guy is an idiot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443192</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30445998</id>
	<title>Re:Network Design?</title>
	<author>K2tech</author>
	<datestamp>1260899640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree with you Darth. After almost 20 years in IT I have come across too many companies with strange policies, but I have come across even more paranoid fiefdom builders. These freakazoids act as if they are the sole protector of the entire planet. i often joke that these guys wrap their head in aluminum foil at night to prevent the aliens and/or CIA from trying to program their brain via satellite.

You go into a meeting with people like this and they glare at you as if to say "I know you are here to destroy MY NETWORK". I just want to reach across the table and B!TCH slap them.

In the end people such as this are only protecting the fact that they don't know as much as they would like you to believe and are afraid you'll find out. All ego and emotion, no true skill.

Even if the city has weird policies, nothing justifies one person from locking everyone else out. It just doesn't make sense and even after this, no one with any sense will hire this guy to do anything greater than tune floppy dirves.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with you Darth .
After almost 20 years in IT I have come across too many companies with strange policies , but I have come across even more paranoid fiefdom builders .
These freakazoids act as if they are the sole protector of the entire planet .
i often joke that these guys wrap their head in aluminum foil at night to prevent the aliens and/or CIA from trying to program their brain via satellite .
You go into a meeting with people like this and they glare at you as if to say " I know you are here to destroy MY NETWORK " .
I just want to reach across the table and B ! TCH slap them .
In the end people such as this are only protecting the fact that they do n't know as much as they would like you to believe and are afraid you 'll find out .
All ego and emotion , no true skill .
Even if the city has weird policies , nothing justifies one person from locking everyone else out .
It just does n't make sense and even after this , no one with any sense will hire this guy to do anything greater than tune floppy dirves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with you Darth.
After almost 20 years in IT I have come across too many companies with strange policies, but I have come across even more paranoid fiefdom builders.
These freakazoids act as if they are the sole protector of the entire planet.
i often joke that these guys wrap their head in aluminum foil at night to prevent the aliens and/or CIA from trying to program their brain via satellite.
You go into a meeting with people like this and they glare at you as if to say "I know you are here to destroy MY NETWORK".
I just want to reach across the table and B!TCH slap them.
In the end people such as this are only protecting the fact that they don't know as much as they would like you to believe and are afraid you'll find out.
All ego and emotion, no true skill.
Even if the city has weird policies, nothing justifies one person from locking everyone else out.
It just doesn't make sense and even after this, no one with any sense will hire this guy to do anything greater than tune floppy dirves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443174</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443696</id>
	<title>Re:anyone here who defends this man</title>
	<author>schon</author>
	<datestamp>1260890700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So what you're saying is that because he was accused of something, he is automatically guilty <a href="http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/08/22/2249221/3-of-4-Charges-Against-Terry-Childs-Dropped" title="slashdot.org"> <i>even though the accusations where later withdrawn</i>?</a> [slashdot.org]</p><p>I sure as hell hope that you never wind up on a jury for *anyone*.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So what you 're saying is that because he was accused of something , he is automatically guilty even though the accusations where later withdrawn ?
[ slashdot.org ] I sure as hell hope that you never wind up on a jury for * anyone * .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what you're saying is that because he was accused of something, he is automatically guilty  even though the accusations where later withdrawn?
[slashdot.org]I sure as hell hope that you never wind up on a jury for *anyone*.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30445260</id>
	<title>Re:anyone here who defends this man</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1260897240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He didn't decide for himself, he was following written policy.</p><p>If I hire a general contractor to build my house and I instruct him to hire you to key the locks, he is your boss, but he is NOT entitled to a copy of the keys.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He did n't decide for himself , he was following written policy.If I hire a general contractor to build my house and I instruct him to hire you to key the locks , he is your boss , but he is NOT entitled to a copy of the keys .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He didn't decide for himself, he was following written policy.If I hire a general contractor to build my house and I instruct him to hire you to key the locks, he is your boss, but he is NOT entitled to a copy of the keys.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30445104</id>
	<title>But what then is the actual crime?</title>
	<author>SmallFurryCreature</author>
	<datestamp>1260896580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are absolutely 100\% right. And? What is Childs then guilty off? Being a jerk? An asswipe? An idiot? If that was a crime the jails would be full... fuller.
</p><p>The case is insane and yet already Childs has served 18 months in jail because of it. For what?
</p><p>Danger to security? What danger? If he is to blame then so are the people who were supposed to control him.
</p><p>What we got here is someone who made some really dumb choices but the result of it all has been nothing. He should pay for it, but 18 months I think is more then enough as well as the fact that nobody will every hire his nutty ass ever again.
</p><p>He never should have done what he did, but neither should he rot in jail for it. or can we lock up every overzealous politician and prosecutor as well? It will be standing room only in the jails.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are absolutely 100 \ % right .
And ? What is Childs then guilty off ?
Being a jerk ?
An asswipe ?
An idiot ?
If that was a crime the jails would be full... fuller . The case is insane and yet already Childs has served 18 months in jail because of it .
For what ?
Danger to security ?
What danger ?
If he is to blame then so are the people who were supposed to control him .
What we got here is someone who made some really dumb choices but the result of it all has been nothing .
He should pay for it , but 18 months I think is more then enough as well as the fact that nobody will every hire his nutty ass ever again .
He never should have done what he did , but neither should he rot in jail for it .
or can we lock up every overzealous politician and prosecutor as well ?
It will be standing room only in the jails .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are absolutely 100\% right.
And? What is Childs then guilty off?
Being a jerk?
An asswipe?
An idiot?
If that was a crime the jails would be full... fuller.
The case is insane and yet already Childs has served 18 months in jail because of it.
For what?
Danger to security?
What danger?
If he is to blame then so are the people who were supposed to control him.
What we got here is someone who made some really dumb choices but the result of it all has been nothing.
He should pay for it, but 18 months I think is more then enough as well as the fact that nobody will every hire his nutty ass ever again.
He never should have done what he did, but neither should he rot in jail for it.
or can we lock up every overzealous politician and prosecutor as well?
It will be standing room only in the jails.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30444002</id>
	<title>Re:Idiots</title>
	<author>jaggeh</author>
	<datestamp>1260891960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I finished an IT security &amp; Responsibility training day on friday and heres what i learned.</p><p>In my company any passwords i have for any part of the system are my property and my responsability to maintain and protect.</p><p>My boss can not ask me for my passwords, in order for him to gain access to my system he has to go through an 'e-share' system of approval from our IT department and they allow or disallow it based on his actual need to access my files.</p><p>If my employment is terminated for anything other than misconduct i get a months notice and in that time i have to wind down any operations im involved in and hand over the keys to whoever is taking my place.</p><p>---<br>In the case of misconduct my pc is confiscated and im escorted from the building. The pc is sent to a data retreival company and any/all relevant info is sent back to employer and then the pc is wiped and returned.</p><p>2 weeks later i get a box in the mail with my personal effects left in my desk.</p><p>---</p><p>Now i havent been fired yet<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) but i know someone who has gone through the process and from all the companies ive worked in this company is my favorite for IT security.</p><p>I've been keeping track of Terry's case and i fully support his decision not to hand over passwords to critical systems to someone who was<br>a) Not authorised to have them<br>b) Not qualified to maintain the system they belong to</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I finished an IT security &amp; Responsibility training day on friday and heres what i learned.In my company any passwords i have for any part of the system are my property and my responsability to maintain and protect.My boss can not ask me for my passwords , in order for him to gain access to my system he has to go through an 'e-share ' system of approval from our IT department and they allow or disallow it based on his actual need to access my files.If my employment is terminated for anything other than misconduct i get a months notice and in that time i have to wind down any operations im involved in and hand over the keys to whoever is taking my place.---In the case of misconduct my pc is confiscated and im escorted from the building .
The pc is sent to a data retreival company and any/all relevant info is sent back to employer and then the pc is wiped and returned.2 weeks later i get a box in the mail with my personal effects left in my desk.---Now i havent been fired yet ; ) but i know someone who has gone through the process and from all the companies ive worked in this company is my favorite for IT security.I 've been keeping track of Terry 's case and i fully support his decision not to hand over passwords to critical systems to someone who wasa ) Not authorised to have themb ) Not qualified to maintain the system they belong to</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I finished an IT security &amp; Responsibility training day on friday and heres what i learned.In my company any passwords i have for any part of the system are my property and my responsability to maintain and protect.My boss can not ask me for my passwords, in order for him to gain access to my system he has to go through an 'e-share' system of approval from our IT department and they allow or disallow it based on his actual need to access my files.If my employment is terminated for anything other than misconduct i get a months notice and in that time i have to wind down any operations im involved in and hand over the keys to whoever is taking my place.---In the case of misconduct my pc is confiscated and im escorted from the building.
The pc is sent to a data retreival company and any/all relevant info is sent back to employer and then the pc is wiped and returned.2 weeks later i get a box in the mail with my personal effects left in my desk.---Now i havent been fired yet ;) but i know someone who has gone through the process and from all the companies ive worked in this company is my favorite for IT security.I've been keeping track of Terry's case and i fully support his decision not to hand over passwords to critical systems to someone who wasa) Not authorised to have themb) Not qualified to maintain the system they belong to</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30442948</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30449738</id>
	<title>Re:Incompetent Imbeciles</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260871440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People also said Hans Reiser was being railroaded because his intelligence intimidated all the 'ordinary' folk, and look what turned out to be the truth in that case...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People also said Hans Reiser was being railroaded because his intelligence intimidated all the 'ordinary ' folk , and look what turned out to be the truth in that case.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People also said Hans Reiser was being railroaded because his intelligence intimidated all the 'ordinary' folk, and look what turned out to be the truth in that case...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443290</id>
	<title>Re:anyone here who defends this man</title>
	<author>LaminatorX</author>
	<datestamp>1260888600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Childs deserves defense not because he appropriately handled a showdown with management he had no hope of navigating successfully, clearly he did not. Rather, he should be defended against having the prosecutorial powers of the city leveled against him and being deprived of his freedom for many months over a matter that should have gone no further than the termination of his employment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Childs deserves defense not because he appropriately handled a showdown with management he had no hope of navigating successfully , clearly he did not .
Rather , he should be defended against having the prosecutorial powers of the city leveled against him and being deprived of his freedom for many months over a matter that should have gone no further than the termination of his employment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Childs deserves defense not because he appropriately handled a showdown with management he had no hope of navigating successfully, clearly he did not.
Rather, he should be defended against having the prosecutorial powers of the city leveled against him and being deprived of his freedom for many months over a matter that should have gone no further than the termination of his employment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30449166</id>
	<title>Re:Incompetent Imbeciles</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260868860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The problem here is that there was not a documented policy on passwords."</p><p>Um, yes there was.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The problem here is that there was not a documented policy on passwords .
" Um , yes there was .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The problem here is that there was not a documented policy on passwords.
"Um, yes there was.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443400</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443518</id>
	<title>Re:Use the backups</title>
	<author>PitaBred</author>
	<datestamp>1260889740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"lost". Loosed is a word meaning letting something loose. Lost is the past-tense of lose.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" lost " .
Loosed is a word meaning letting something loose .
Lost is the past-tense of lose .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"lost".
Loosed is a word meaning letting something loose.
Lost is the past-tense of lose.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30444372</id>
	<title>Re:anyone here who defends this man</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1260893880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>child's job description did not include the self-appointed position of deciding himself who should have access to the network configuration of a public utility.</i></p><p>rIGHt , tHE seCURitY pOLICY - he WAS OperATIng UNdER preVEnTED . HIM FRoM revealing THE paSSworDS SO IT WasN''T seLF-APPOINTED (</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>child 's job description did not include the self-appointed position of deciding himself who should have access to the network configuration of a public utility.rIGHt , tHE seCURitY pOLICY - he WAS OperATIng UNdER preVEnTED .
HIM FRoM revealing THE paSSworDS SO IT WasN''T seLF-APPOINTED (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>child's job description did not include the self-appointed position of deciding himself who should have access to the network configuration of a public utility.rIGHt , tHE seCURitY pOLICY - he WAS OperATIng UNdER preVEnTED .
HIM FRoM revealing THE paSSworDS SO IT WasN''T seLF-APPOINTED (</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30444234</id>
	<title>Re:anyone here who defends this man</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260893160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They fired him <em>then</em> asked for the passwords.</p><p>Seems pretty clear cut to me.  He didn't even work for them and they were trying to force him to still do labor?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They fired him then asked for the passwords.Seems pretty clear cut to me .
He did n't even work for them and they were trying to force him to still do labor ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They fired him then asked for the passwords.Seems pretty clear cut to me.
He didn't even work for them and they were trying to force him to still do labor?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443474</id>
	<title>Re:anyone here who defends this man</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1260889500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Remember that he was working in government, so of <em>course</em> he'd view everyone else like helpless retard-children incapable of doing anything for themselves.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Remember that he was working in government , so of course he 'd view everyone else like helpless retard-children incapable of doing anything for themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remember that he was working in government, so of course he'd view everyone else like helpless retard-children incapable of doing anything for themselves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30451062</id>
	<title>Re:Security Rules</title>
	<author>Phrogman</author>
	<datestamp>1260876660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In some institutions the security rules are absolutes. I think it sounds like Childs did exactly the right thing: he obeyed the security policies of his organization to the letter, since he would be criminally liable for not doing so.<br>I know when I was in the military and handling TS documents, we had clear rules as to who was allowed access to material and facilities and when they were allowed access. If I had failed to obey those rules I would have been liable and punishable.<br>He really didn't have any choice in the matter IMHO. Now there are lots of people who seem to subscribe to the idea that "Your Boss is an absolute despot with all rights over your person" concept of employment, and I am sorry for them. I hope I never have to work in an environment like that. As long as there is a clear policy over who is granted the rights to security information, and the employee follows it, I don't see the problem.<br>This is a case of people who are clearly unknowledgeable about their own security policies being given too much authority - and incidently proving Child's point that they were not skilled enough or responsible enough to be entrusted with the the "keys to the kingdom" - and he wasn't authorized by those same policies to hand the passwords over in any case.<br>He is damned if he did and damned if he didn't. If he had handed them over against policy, and anything had gone wrong, he would have been held liable and ended up in jail on charges.<br>I don't honestly know why this is being blown so much out of proportion. I sincerely hope he is exonerated and compensated for the time he spent in jail.<br>Of course in our modern corporate climate, I expect he will be nailed and sent to jail for 10 more years. I don't expect justice in NA these days, it just seems too optimistic<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In some institutions the security rules are absolutes .
I think it sounds like Childs did exactly the right thing : he obeyed the security policies of his organization to the letter , since he would be criminally liable for not doing so.I know when I was in the military and handling TS documents , we had clear rules as to who was allowed access to material and facilities and when they were allowed access .
If I had failed to obey those rules I would have been liable and punishable.He really did n't have any choice in the matter IMHO .
Now there are lots of people who seem to subscribe to the idea that " Your Boss is an absolute despot with all rights over your person " concept of employment , and I am sorry for them .
I hope I never have to work in an environment like that .
As long as there is a clear policy over who is granted the rights to security information , and the employee follows it , I do n't see the problem.This is a case of people who are clearly unknowledgeable about their own security policies being given too much authority - and incidently proving Child 's point that they were not skilled enough or responsible enough to be entrusted with the the " keys to the kingdom " - and he was n't authorized by those same policies to hand the passwords over in any case.He is damned if he did and damned if he did n't .
If he had handed them over against policy , and anything had gone wrong , he would have been held liable and ended up in jail on charges.I do n't honestly know why this is being blown so much out of proportion .
I sincerely hope he is exonerated and compensated for the time he spent in jail.Of course in our modern corporate climate , I expect he will be nailed and sent to jail for 10 more years .
I do n't expect justice in NA these days , it just seems too optimistic : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In some institutions the security rules are absolutes.
I think it sounds like Childs did exactly the right thing: he obeyed the security policies of his organization to the letter, since he would be criminally liable for not doing so.I know when I was in the military and handling TS documents, we had clear rules as to who was allowed access to material and facilities and when they were allowed access.
If I had failed to obey those rules I would have been liable and punishable.He really didn't have any choice in the matter IMHO.
Now there are lots of people who seem to subscribe to the idea that "Your Boss is an absolute despot with all rights over your person" concept of employment, and I am sorry for them.
I hope I never have to work in an environment like that.
As long as there is a clear policy over who is granted the rights to security information, and the employee follows it, I don't see the problem.This is a case of people who are clearly unknowledgeable about their own security policies being given too much authority - and incidently proving Child's point that they were not skilled enough or responsible enough to be entrusted with the the "keys to the kingdom" - and he wasn't authorized by those same policies to hand the passwords over in any case.He is damned if he did and damned if he didn't.
If he had handed them over against policy, and anything had gone wrong, he would have been held liable and ended up in jail on charges.I don't honestly know why this is being blown so much out of proportion.
I sincerely hope he is exonerated and compensated for the time he spent in jail.Of course in our modern corporate climate, I expect he will be nailed and sent to jail for 10 more years.
I don't expect justice in NA these days, it just seems too optimistic :P</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30444002</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443450</id>
	<title>There is no face to be saved</title>
	<author>Dunbal</author>
	<datestamp>1260889440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>and is continuing with the prosecution just to save face,' </i></p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; So, what do taxpayers think about their public funds being thrown away just to "save face"? This charade will end soon. Maybe another generation or so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and is continuing with the prosecution just to save face, '       So , what do taxpayers think about their public funds being thrown away just to " save face " ?
This charade will end soon .
Maybe another generation or so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and is continuing with the prosecution just to save face,' 
      So, what do taxpayers think about their public funds being thrown away just to "save face"?
This charade will end soon.
Maybe another generation or so.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443634</id>
	<title>Re:anyone here who defends this man</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260890400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wasn't he terminated before they even asked for the passwords?  If it was me they'd have to hire me back as a very, very expensive consultant before I'd even speak with them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Was n't he terminated before they even asked for the passwords ?
If it was me they 'd have to hire me back as a very , very expensive consultant before I 'd even speak with them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wasn't he terminated before they even asked for the passwords?
If it was me they'd have to hire me back as a very, very expensive consultant before I'd even speak with them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443290</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443988</id>
	<title>Re:anyone here who defends this man</title>
	<author>tibman</author>
	<datestamp>1260891960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mr Childs gave the password to the Mayor, the only person he felt was authorized to receive it.  He's been held for 18 months now and needs $5 million for bail, that's just crazy.</p><p>I know it doesn't make sense to you that he refused to give the password up to his manager.  Childs was probably being overly protective.  But i understand it from a military perspective.  General Order #1 "I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved."  Even if a general shows up and says, "ok, you can go home now."  You better stand there and refuse.  If the OIC/NCOIC relieves you or ends the guard, you may go.  But like i said, i can understand what he did.. not that he did the right thing.</p><p>It will be interesting to hear the whole story when it's over.  His belief that he was saving San Francisco from horrible mis-management could be well founded.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mr Childs gave the password to the Mayor , the only person he felt was authorized to receive it .
He 's been held for 18 months now and needs $ 5 million for bail , that 's just crazy.I know it does n't make sense to you that he refused to give the password up to his manager .
Childs was probably being overly protective .
But i understand it from a military perspective .
General Order # 1 " I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved .
" Even if a general shows up and says , " ok , you can go home now .
" You better stand there and refuse .
If the OIC/NCOIC relieves you or ends the guard , you may go .
But like i said , i can understand what he did.. not that he did the right thing.It will be interesting to hear the whole story when it 's over .
His belief that he was saving San Francisco from horrible mis-management could be well founded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mr Childs gave the password to the Mayor, the only person he felt was authorized to receive it.
He's been held for 18 months now and needs $5 million for bail, that's just crazy.I know it doesn't make sense to you that he refused to give the password up to his manager.
Childs was probably being overly protective.
But i understand it from a military perspective.
General Order #1 "I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved.
"  Even if a general shows up and says, "ok, you can go home now.
"  You better stand there and refuse.
If the OIC/NCOIC relieves you or ends the guard, you may go.
But like i said, i can understand what he did.. not that he did the right thing.It will be interesting to hear the whole story when it's over.
His belief that he was saving San Francisco from horrible mis-management could be well founded.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30446552</id>
	<title>Re:Network Design?</title>
	<author>Cybershark302</author>
	<datestamp>1260901440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If the dude walked out without giving passwords to anyone and the system was poorly designed so that admin passwords had to be forcefully recovered via single user mode or the like, then the city should just eat crow, lick their wounds, and install a real network AAA system.</p></div><p>except that all the startup configs had been erased. any reboot of the routers would have caused them to bounce to factory defaults. They were set up this way specifically to prevent a password recovery attempt...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the dude walked out without giving passwords to anyone and the system was poorly designed so that admin passwords had to be forcefully recovered via single user mode or the like , then the city should just eat crow , lick their wounds , and install a real network AAA system.except that all the startup configs had been erased .
any reboot of the routers would have caused them to bounce to factory defaults .
They were set up this way specifically to prevent a password recovery attempt.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the dude walked out without giving passwords to anyone and the system was poorly designed so that admin passwords had to be forcefully recovered via single user mode or the like, then the city should just eat crow, lick their wounds, and install a real network AAA system.except that all the startup configs had been erased.
any reboot of the routers would have caused them to bounce to factory defaults.
They were set up this way specifically to prevent a password recovery attempt...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443174</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30444142</id>
	<title>Re:Idiots</title>
	<author>Virtucon</author>
	<datestamp>1260892740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am not a Frankenstein. I'm a Fronkensteen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am not a Frankenstein .
I 'm a Fronkensteen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am not a Frankenstein.
I'm a Fronkensteen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30442948</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30442948</id>
	<title>Idiots</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260886260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>'the DA has done no homework on the technical issues in play here and is instead more than willing to use the Frankenstein offense: It's different, so it must be killed.'</p><p>The problem with a democracy is that the masses are ignorant. I will be following this case closely, but am already concerned for the outcome.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'the DA has done no homework on the technical issues in play here and is instead more than willing to use the Frankenstein offense : It 's different , so it must be killed .
'The problem with a democracy is that the masses are ignorant .
I will be following this case closely , but am already concerned for the outcome .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'the DA has done no homework on the technical issues in play here and is instead more than willing to use the Frankenstein offense: It's different, so it must be killed.
'The problem with a democracy is that the masses are ignorant.
I will be following this case closely, but am already concerned for the outcome.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058</id>
	<title>anyone here who defends this man</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260887100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>suffers from the same delusions as this man:</p><p>only i alone can protect the world from itself</p><p>child's job description did not include the self-appointed position of deciding himself who should have access to the network configuration of a public utility. he is not bravely defending security from poor admins and petty politicians, he his protecting his own ego from the notion that other people have a rightful claim to power in what he has self-appointed as his private domain</p><p>i'm glad that he built the network and pored his knowledge into it and did a good job securing it: why does that somehow give him the right to assume final authority over it? i thought he was paid for doing a job? if i build you a door for your house, do i then get to decide when you use it? say i built into that door a good lock system, and you, out of laziness and stupidity, choose to fail to treat that lock system with the proper protocol to make it effective. ok... so the fuck what? its your fucking door, you paid me to build it. now my job is to fuck off. what childs built on the public dime is a publicly owned network</p><p>childs does not get to assume continuing final authority on that network no matter what he thinks of anyone else's capacity at running the network that the public owns. there is being attached to your creations, then there is a maniacal assumed sense of ownership of your handiwork forever more, even after you are paid for its creation</p><p>that childs does not submit to the simple truth that the network he built is not eternally his reveals that childs is a danger to security, not a protector of it</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>suffers from the same delusions as this man : only i alone can protect the world from itselfchild 's job description did not include the self-appointed position of deciding himself who should have access to the network configuration of a public utility .
he is not bravely defending security from poor admins and petty politicians , he his protecting his own ego from the notion that other people have a rightful claim to power in what he has self-appointed as his private domaini 'm glad that he built the network and pored his knowledge into it and did a good job securing it : why does that somehow give him the right to assume final authority over it ?
i thought he was paid for doing a job ?
if i build you a door for your house , do i then get to decide when you use it ?
say i built into that door a good lock system , and you , out of laziness and stupidity , choose to fail to treat that lock system with the proper protocol to make it effective .
ok... so the fuck what ?
its your fucking door , you paid me to build it .
now my job is to fuck off .
what childs built on the public dime is a publicly owned networkchilds does not get to assume continuing final authority on that network no matter what he thinks of anyone else 's capacity at running the network that the public owns .
there is being attached to your creations , then there is a maniacal assumed sense of ownership of your handiwork forever more , even after you are paid for its creationthat childs does not submit to the simple truth that the network he built is not eternally his reveals that childs is a danger to security , not a protector of it</tokentext>
<sentencetext>suffers from the same delusions as this man:only i alone can protect the world from itselfchild's job description did not include the self-appointed position of deciding himself who should have access to the network configuration of a public utility.
he is not bravely defending security from poor admins and petty politicians, he his protecting his own ego from the notion that other people have a rightful claim to power in what he has self-appointed as his private domaini'm glad that he built the network and pored his knowledge into it and did a good job securing it: why does that somehow give him the right to assume final authority over it?
i thought he was paid for doing a job?
if i build you a door for your house, do i then get to decide when you use it?
say i built into that door a good lock system, and you, out of laziness and stupidity, choose to fail to treat that lock system with the proper protocol to make it effective.
ok... so the fuck what?
its your fucking door, you paid me to build it.
now my job is to fuck off.
what childs built on the public dime is a publicly owned networkchilds does not get to assume continuing final authority on that network no matter what he thinks of anyone else's capacity at running the network that the public owns.
there is being attached to your creations, then there is a maniacal assumed sense of ownership of your handiwork forever more, even after you are paid for its creationthat childs does not submit to the simple truth that the network he built is not eternally his reveals that childs is a danger to security, not a protector of it</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30447900</id>
	<title>Re:anyone here who defends this man</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260906240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow this is hard to read.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow this is hard to read .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow this is hard to read.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443242</id>
	<title>If he wins will he have to retest for certificatio</title>
	<author>Joe The Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1260888300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If he wins will he have to retest for certification or as he all reedy been put on a black list? but even if he is people will likely still look the other way and he can keen them on his CV.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If he wins will he have to retest for certification or as he all reedy been put on a black list ?
but even if he is people will likely still look the other way and he can keen them on his CV .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If he wins will he have to retest for certification or as he all reedy been put on a black list?
but even if he is people will likely still look the other way and he can keen them on his CV.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_15_0121259_18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30447900
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_15_0121259_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30449676
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443114
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_15_0121259_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443634
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443290
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_15_0121259_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443988
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</commentlist>
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_15_0121259_28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443054
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30442956
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_15_0121259_22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30444372
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30443058
</commentlist>
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_15_0121259_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_15_0121259.30456964
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