<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_13_1530211</id>
	<title>Widenius Warns Against MySQL Falling Into Oracle's Hands</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1260721080000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>jamie sends in a blog post from MySQL co-founder Monty Widenius <a href="http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-saving-mysql.html">calling for help to "save MySQL from Oracle's clutches."</a> While the US DoJ <a href="http://developers.slashdot.org/story/09/08/23/125211/DOJ-Gives-Oracle-Approval-To-Buy-Sun">approved Oracle's purchase</a> of Sun back in August, the European Commission has been <a href="http://developers.slashdot.org/story/09/11/10/1922206/EC-Formally-Objects-To-Oracles-Purchase-of-Sun">less forthcoming</a>. Widenius points out that Oracle has been using their customers to put pressure on the EC, and he questions Oracle's commitment to MySQL, saying their vague promises aren't good enough. He writes:
<i>"Oracle has NOT promised (as far as I know and certainly not in a legally binding manner):  To keep (all of) MySQL under an open source license; Not to add closed source parts, modules or required tools; To not raise MySQL license or MySQL support prices; To release new MySQL versions in a regular and timely manner; To continue with dual licensing and always provide affordable commercial licenses to MySQL to those who needs them (to storage vendors and application vendors) or provide MySQL under a more permissive license; To develop MySQL as an Open Source project; To actively work with the community; Apply submitted patches in a timely manner; To not discriminate patches that make MySQL compete more with Oracle's other products; To ensure that MySQL is improved also in manners that make it compete even more with Oracle's main offering."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>jamie sends in a blog post from MySQL co-founder Monty Widenius calling for help to " save MySQL from Oracle 's clutches .
" While the US DoJ approved Oracle 's purchase of Sun back in August , the European Commission has been less forthcoming .
Widenius points out that Oracle has been using their customers to put pressure on the EC , and he questions Oracle 's commitment to MySQL , saying their vague promises are n't good enough .
He writes : " Oracle has NOT promised ( as far as I know and certainly not in a legally binding manner ) : To keep ( all of ) MySQL under an open source license ; Not to add closed source parts , modules or required tools ; To not raise MySQL license or MySQL support prices ; To release new MySQL versions in a regular and timely manner ; To continue with dual licensing and always provide affordable commercial licenses to MySQL to those who needs them ( to storage vendors and application vendors ) or provide MySQL under a more permissive license ; To develop MySQL as an Open Source project ; To actively work with the community ; Apply submitted patches in a timely manner ; To not discriminate patches that make MySQL compete more with Oracle 's other products ; To ensure that MySQL is improved also in manners that make it compete even more with Oracle 's main offering .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>jamie sends in a blog post from MySQL co-founder Monty Widenius calling for help to "save MySQL from Oracle's clutches.
" While the US DoJ approved Oracle's purchase of Sun back in August, the European Commission has been less forthcoming.
Widenius points out that Oracle has been using their customers to put pressure on the EC, and he questions Oracle's commitment to MySQL, saying their vague promises aren't good enough.
He writes:
"Oracle has NOT promised (as far as I know and certainly not in a legally binding manner):  To keep (all of) MySQL under an open source license; Not to add closed source parts, modules or required tools; To not raise MySQL license or MySQL support prices; To release new MySQL versions in a regular and timely manner; To continue with dual licensing and always provide affordable commercial licenses to MySQL to those who needs them (to storage vendors and application vendors) or provide MySQL under a more permissive license; To develop MySQL as an Open Source project; To actively work with the community; Apply submitted patches in a timely manner; To not discriminate patches that make MySQL compete more with Oracle's other products; To ensure that MySQL is improved also in manners that make it compete even more with Oracle's main offering.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30428824</id>
	<title>Re:Would not be a loss</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260781380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>\MySQLe (the embedded version, which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it's a really cool idea)</p></div><p>What about SQLite?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>\ MySQLe ( the embedded version , which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it 's a really cool idea ) What about SQLite ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>\MySQLe (the embedded version, which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it's a really cool idea)What about SQLite?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423926</id>
	<title>Why Should Oracle Promise ANY of Those Things?</title>
	<author>SwashbucklingCowboy</author>
	<datestamp>1260732540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just to make his life easier?</p><p>Welcome to the world of commercial open source...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just to make his life easier ? Welcome to the world of commercial open source.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just to make his life easier?Welcome to the world of commercial open source...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423522</id>
	<title>Should he EXPECT oracle to make those promises?</title>
	<author>mark-t</author>
	<datestamp>1260729060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I sure wouldn't... and it's a waste of effort to be worried about what somebody else is going to do unless one is actually in a position to influence their decisions.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I sure would n't... and it 's a waste of effort to be worried about what somebody else is going to do unless one is actually in a position to influence their decisions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I sure wouldn't... and it's a waste of effort to be worried about what somebody else is going to do unless one is actually in a position to influence their decisions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423618</id>
	<title>Business as usual...</title>
	<author>Plekto</author>
	<datestamp>1260729780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>#40.  I will be neither chivalrous nor sporting. If I have an unstoppable superweapon, I will use it as early and as often as possible instead of keeping it in reserve.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext># 40 .
I will be neither chivalrous nor sporting .
If I have an unstoppable superweapon , I will use it as early and as often as possible instead of keeping it in reserve .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>#40.
I will be neither chivalrous nor sporting.
If I have an unstoppable superweapon, I will use it as early and as often as possible instead of keeping it in reserve.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424542</id>
	<title>That's one big forking problem</title>
	<author>rbrander</author>
	<datestamp>1260694800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Widenius responded to comments on this blog post:<blockquote><div><p>To Andr&#233;s Monroy-Hern&#225;ndez (and everyone else that has asked about forking).
</p><p>
You can fork the GPL code, but not the business around it. This means that a lot of the current users (who brings money to the table) can never use the fork. In addition you can't fork the manual, trademark which makes it very hard for the fork to get to be known and survive. In practice, it's not that hard to slowly kill an infrastructure GPL project like MySQL. I have described this in my previous blog at:
</p><p>
<a href="http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/10/importance-of-license-model-of-mysql-or.html" title="blogspot.com">http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/10/importance-of-license-model-of-mysql-or.html</a> [blogspot.com]</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Me, I have no skin in this game.  Have enjoyed using MySQL on a few home projects running my own web server, but my job is an all-Oracle shop.  I just like to see Open Source succeed on general principles.
</p><p>
But even a neutral observer can offer an obvious riposte: Mr. Widenius is clearly not a helpless bug about to be stepped on.  Wikipedia says his capital gains hit 16M Euros in 2008, around $25M US.   He has that wealth, and another wealth you can't buy with money: He's the famous and beloved Monty Widenius, and open source contributors will listen to him and rally about him in the right cause - he IS a "brand".
</p><p>
Younger programmers, at least, eager for the resume decoration, would probably work for him pretty cheerfully for about $50K per year.  A single million bucks a year would get him a respectable programming shop of 20 people rolling.  I suspect even with a large project like MySQL, that's enough to do a lot of maintenance and even some development. Then there are those free contributors, which can include whole companies, not just kids-in-parents-basements.  If his Oracle-as-quicksand fears are shared, many companies not wanting to end up in quicksand will switch to "NewSQL", or "FreeSQL" or whatever he re-brands it as.  Switch, not just their usage, but their code contributions.
</p><p>
I wouldn't allocate a dime to promotion and sales and PR - the best advertising in a move like this is word-of-mouth among server room admins and DBAs.
</p><p>
Needless to say, any SERIOUS challenge, like that, could quickly bring Oracle back to a bargaining table to perhaps concede all those demands he has.   They might have more to gain by letting MySQL molder away than by keeping it healthy, but they don't have so much to gain that it's worth the risk of simply losing the whole purchase value if everybody starts bailing to the newer fork.
</p><p>
So he can probably solve this problem for a single million, just 4\% of his 2008 capital gains.   He's just trying to do it with a blog post, that being cheaper still.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Widenius responded to comments on this blog post : To Andr   s Monroy-Hern   ndez ( and everyone else that has asked about forking ) .
You can fork the GPL code , but not the business around it .
This means that a lot of the current users ( who brings money to the table ) can never use the fork .
In addition you ca n't fork the manual , trademark which makes it very hard for the fork to get to be known and survive .
In practice , it 's not that hard to slowly kill an infrastructure GPL project like MySQL .
I have described this in my previous blog at : http : //monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/10/importance-of-license-model-of-mysql-or.html [ blogspot.com ] Me , I have no skin in this game .
Have enjoyed using MySQL on a few home projects running my own web server , but my job is an all-Oracle shop .
I just like to see Open Source succeed on general principles .
But even a neutral observer can offer an obvious riposte : Mr. Widenius is clearly not a helpless bug about to be stepped on .
Wikipedia says his capital gains hit 16M Euros in 2008 , around $ 25M US .
He has that wealth , and another wealth you ca n't buy with money : He 's the famous and beloved Monty Widenius , and open source contributors will listen to him and rally about him in the right cause - he IS a " brand " .
Younger programmers , at least , eager for the resume decoration , would probably work for him pretty cheerfully for about $ 50K per year .
A single million bucks a year would get him a respectable programming shop of 20 people rolling .
I suspect even with a large project like MySQL , that 's enough to do a lot of maintenance and even some development .
Then there are those free contributors , which can include whole companies , not just kids-in-parents-basements .
If his Oracle-as-quicksand fears are shared , many companies not wanting to end up in quicksand will switch to " NewSQL " , or " FreeSQL " or whatever he re-brands it as .
Switch , not just their usage , but their code contributions .
I would n't allocate a dime to promotion and sales and PR - the best advertising in a move like this is word-of-mouth among server room admins and DBAs .
Needless to say , any SERIOUS challenge , like that , could quickly bring Oracle back to a bargaining table to perhaps concede all those demands he has .
They might have more to gain by letting MySQL molder away than by keeping it healthy , but they do n't have so much to gain that it 's worth the risk of simply losing the whole purchase value if everybody starts bailing to the newer fork .
So he can probably solve this problem for a single million , just 4 \ % of his 2008 capital gains .
He 's just trying to do it with a blog post , that being cheaper still .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Widenius responded to comments on this blog post:To Andrés Monroy-Hernández (and everyone else that has asked about forking).
You can fork the GPL code, but not the business around it.
This means that a lot of the current users (who brings money to the table) can never use the fork.
In addition you can't fork the manual, trademark which makes it very hard for the fork to get to be known and survive.
In practice, it's not that hard to slowly kill an infrastructure GPL project like MySQL.
I have described this in my previous blog at:

http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/10/importance-of-license-model-of-mysql-or.html [blogspot.com]

Me, I have no skin in this game.
Have enjoyed using MySQL on a few home projects running my own web server, but my job is an all-Oracle shop.
I just like to see Open Source succeed on general principles.
But even a neutral observer can offer an obvious riposte: Mr. Widenius is clearly not a helpless bug about to be stepped on.
Wikipedia says his capital gains hit 16M Euros in 2008, around $25M US.
He has that wealth, and another wealth you can't buy with money: He's the famous and beloved Monty Widenius, and open source contributors will listen to him and rally about him in the right cause - he IS a "brand".
Younger programmers, at least, eager for the resume decoration, would probably work for him pretty cheerfully for about $50K per year.
A single million bucks a year would get him a respectable programming shop of 20 people rolling.
I suspect even with a large project like MySQL, that's enough to do a lot of maintenance and even some development.
Then there are those free contributors, which can include whole companies, not just kids-in-parents-basements.
If his Oracle-as-quicksand fears are shared, many companies not wanting to end up in quicksand will switch to "NewSQL", or "FreeSQL" or whatever he re-brands it as.
Switch, not just their usage, but their code contributions.
I wouldn't allocate a dime to promotion and sales and PR - the best advertising in a move like this is word-of-mouth among server room admins and DBAs.
Needless to say, any SERIOUS challenge, like that, could quickly bring Oracle back to a bargaining table to perhaps concede all those demands he has.
They might have more to gain by letting MySQL molder away than by keeping it healthy, but they don't have so much to gain that it's worth the risk of simply losing the whole purchase value if everybody starts bailing to the newer fork.
So he can probably solve this problem for a single million, just 4\% of his 2008 capital gains.
He's just trying to do it with a blog post, that being cheaper still.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423766</id>
	<title>Re:And what did Monty do?</title>
	<author>diegocg</author>
	<datestamp>1260731100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why? After opensourcing solaris and java, Sun had a great record of being opensource friendly, and they had a LOT of incentives to improve MySQL and compete with Oracle. Sun also was a Big Company that could invest in MySQL more money than MySQL alone could even dream.</p><p>Oracle is a different story. They make a lot of their money from a bussines based in software licenses of their closed-source database. Opensource competence kills their bussiness model. They clearly don't have many incentives to make MySQL compete with Oracle - unless bankrupcy is a bussiness model. And MySQL CAN compete with Oracle long-term - look what a JokeOS Linux was some years ago, and how today it has eaten most of the Unix bussiness.</p><p>So why Monty is an hypocrite? It's Sun who has sold out, not Monty. The decisions where Monty was involved were to make mysql BETTER. How could he expect that Sun was going to die? Is he an hypocrite just because he wants to avoid the fall of mysql?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why ?
After opensourcing solaris and java , Sun had a great record of being opensource friendly , and they had a LOT of incentives to improve MySQL and compete with Oracle .
Sun also was a Big Company that could invest in MySQL more money than MySQL alone could even dream.Oracle is a different story .
They make a lot of their money from a bussines based in software licenses of their closed-source database .
Opensource competence kills their bussiness model .
They clearly do n't have many incentives to make MySQL compete with Oracle - unless bankrupcy is a bussiness model .
And MySQL CAN compete with Oracle long-term - look what a JokeOS Linux was some years ago , and how today it has eaten most of the Unix bussiness.So why Monty is an hypocrite ?
It 's Sun who has sold out , not Monty .
The decisions where Monty was involved were to make mysql BETTER .
How could he expect that Sun was going to die ?
Is he an hypocrite just because he wants to avoid the fall of mysql ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why?
After opensourcing solaris and java, Sun had a great record of being opensource friendly, and they had a LOT of incentives to improve MySQL and compete with Oracle.
Sun also was a Big Company that could invest in MySQL more money than MySQL alone could even dream.Oracle is a different story.
They make a lot of their money from a bussines based in software licenses of their closed-source database.
Opensource competence kills their bussiness model.
They clearly don't have many incentives to make MySQL compete with Oracle - unless bankrupcy is a bussiness model.
And MySQL CAN compete with Oracle long-term - look what a JokeOS Linux was some years ago, and how today it has eaten most of the Unix bussiness.So why Monty is an hypocrite?
It's Sun who has sold out, not Monty.
The decisions where Monty was involved were to make mysql BETTER.
How could he expect that Sun was going to die?
Is he an hypocrite just because he wants to avoid the fall of mysql?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423096</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423374</id>
	<title>Oh, rly?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260727380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Perhaps Monty SHOULDN'T HAVE SOLD the damn thing in the first place if he's so worried about these things happening, no?</p><p>Maybe. I did my quote of shooting in the foot... so me might, too. But now is too late, and if he has awaken now, maybe understanding his creation was in jeopardy... what can he do? Solve the problem alone? That's not how free software works. He needs people -- and for that, he needs credibility. Having sold once, who wants to take chances a second time?</p><p>&gt; Besides, there is NOTHING in the world preventing him from forking it, naming it something else and continuing development. NOTHING.</p><p>Ah, Oracle is such a fool, ain't it? If there's not a secret agreement, things like branding and communities are not created overnight.</p><p>BTW, IMO this is somewhat akin to what is happening to Gnome, but I guess M$ wants to spend less money and do a slower process -- so as to get everyone used to Gnome as an M$ technology.</p><p>It's not being sold, it's being assimilated...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Perhaps Monty SHOULD N'T HAVE SOLD the damn thing in the first place if he 's so worried about these things happening , no ? Maybe .
I did my quote of shooting in the foot... so me might , too .
But now is too late , and if he has awaken now , maybe understanding his creation was in jeopardy... what can he do ?
Solve the problem alone ?
That 's not how free software works .
He needs people -- and for that , he needs credibility .
Having sold once , who wants to take chances a second time ? &gt; Besides , there is NOTHING in the world preventing him from forking it , naming it something else and continuing development .
NOTHING.Ah , Oracle is such a fool , ai n't it ?
If there 's not a secret agreement , things like branding and communities are not created overnight.BTW , IMO this is somewhat akin to what is happening to Gnome , but I guess M $ wants to spend less money and do a slower process -- so as to get everyone used to Gnome as an M $ technology.It 's not being sold , it 's being assimilated.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Perhaps Monty SHOULDN'T HAVE SOLD the damn thing in the first place if he's so worried about these things happening, no?Maybe.
I did my quote of shooting in the foot... so me might, too.
But now is too late, and if he has awaken now, maybe understanding his creation was in jeopardy... what can he do?
Solve the problem alone?
That's not how free software works.
He needs people -- and for that, he needs credibility.
Having sold once, who wants to take chances a second time?&gt; Besides, there is NOTHING in the world preventing him from forking it, naming it something else and continuing development.
NOTHING.Ah, Oracle is such a fool, ain't it?
If there's not a secret agreement, things like branding and communities are not created overnight.BTW, IMO this is somewhat akin to what is happening to Gnome, but I guess M$ wants to spend less money and do a slower process -- so as to get everyone used to Gnome as an M$ technology.It's not being sold, it's being assimilated...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423176</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423838</id>
	<title>Re:Would not be a loss</title>
	<author>jimicus</author>
	<datestamp>1260731640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>PostgreSQL added this about a year ago - I'm not sure how solid it is yet</p></div><p>Not too bad, I understand.  But then PostgreSQL doesn't tend to declare a feature as being done until such time as it is fairly solid.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>PostgreSQL added this about a year ago - I 'm not sure how solid it is yetNot too bad , I understand .
But then PostgreSQL does n't tend to declare a feature as being done until such time as it is fairly solid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PostgreSQL added this about a year ago - I'm not sure how solid it is yetNot too bad, I understand.
But then PostgreSQL doesn't tend to declare a feature as being done until such time as it is fairly solid.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30428420</id>
	<title>Re:Would not be a loss</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1260731400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There are only two things I can think of that the world would miss - MySQLe (the embedded version, which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it's a really cool idea)</p></div><p>Assuming it is what I think it is, between SQLite and Firebird Embedded, I don't think it's much of a loss.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are only two things I can think of that the world would miss - MySQLe ( the embedded version , which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it 's a really cool idea ) Assuming it is what I think it is , between SQLite and Firebird Embedded , I do n't think it 's much of a loss .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are only two things I can think of that the world would miss - MySQLe (the embedded version, which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it's a really cool idea)Assuming it is what I think it is, between SQLite and Firebird Embedded, I don't think it's much of a loss.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423652</id>
	<title>Re:So fork the damn thing already!</title>
	<author>whrde</author>
	<datestamp>1260730140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's possible that open source licences can be revoked by the copyright/IP holder.

Under anglo common law, a bare licence can be revoked, but a contractual licence can't be --- It all depends on whether you consider there to be a contract, supported by consideration (ie someone of value is exchanged for the licence).

I personally believe there is consideration and so no one can revoke open source licences. But unlike the US courts, Australian courts don't seem to agree.

(I wrote a dissertation on this problem: <a href="http://willhardy.com.au/legal-essays/oss-consideration/download/" title="willhardy.com.au" rel="nofollow">feel free to read it</a> [willhardy.com.au])</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's possible that open source licences can be revoked by the copyright/IP holder .
Under anglo common law , a bare licence can be revoked , but a contractual licence ca n't be --- It all depends on whether you consider there to be a contract , supported by consideration ( ie someone of value is exchanged for the licence ) .
I personally believe there is consideration and so no one can revoke open source licences .
But unlike the US courts , Australian courts do n't seem to agree .
( I wrote a dissertation on this problem : feel free to read it [ willhardy.com.au ] )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's possible that open source licences can be revoked by the copyright/IP holder.
Under anglo common law, a bare licence can be revoked, but a contractual licence can't be --- It all depends on whether you consider there to be a contract, supported by consideration (ie someone of value is exchanged for the licence).
I personally believe there is consideration and so no one can revoke open source licences.
But unlike the US courts, Australian courts don't seem to agree.
(I wrote a dissertation on this problem: feel free to read it [willhardy.com.au])</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426122</id>
	<title>Re:Would not be a loss</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260707220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>MySQL's wins tend to be based on good marketing for a bad product.</p></div><p>What marketing have they done, really? I thought what made it popular was its easy integration with PHP, its easy accessibility ( it didn't have all those pesky data integrity features that keeps newbies out of real databases ),  the explosion of the web and web applications, and its ease of administration ( no pre-2000 tech boom ISP would want to hire a real DBA to administrate their PostgreSQL for $10.99/mo. webhosting ) . <br> <br>If there was no MySQL, it would be SQLite or something at that more primitive level, not PostgreSQL.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>MySQL 's wins tend to be based on good marketing for a bad product.What marketing have they done , really ?
I thought what made it popular was its easy integration with PHP , its easy accessibility ( it did n't have all those pesky data integrity features that keeps newbies out of real databases ) , the explosion of the web and web applications , and its ease of administration ( no pre-2000 tech boom ISP would want to hire a real DBA to administrate their PostgreSQL for $ 10.99/mo .
webhosting ) .
If there was no MySQL , it would be SQLite or something at that more primitive level , not PostgreSQL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MySQL's wins tend to be based on good marketing for a bad product.What marketing have they done, really?
I thought what made it popular was its easy integration with PHP, its easy accessibility ( it didn't have all those pesky data integrity features that keeps newbies out of real databases ),  the explosion of the web and web applications, and its ease of administration ( no pre-2000 tech boom ISP would want to hire a real DBA to administrate their PostgreSQL for $10.99/mo.
webhosting ) .
If there was no MySQL, it would be SQLite or something at that more primitive level, not PostgreSQL.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423972</id>
	<title>Re:There is no spoon</title>
	<author>Z34107</author>
	<datestamp>1260733020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>It's strangely appropriate that Neo, when he went to see the Oracle to find out that he is The One, was also shown that the reality he was constantly presented with was simply a computer manipulation. This is why "there is no spoon" was such a critical piece of the Matrix puzzle. There may be no spoon, but there can still be a fork.</i> </p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr><i>...</i> </p><p>"Whoa."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's strangely appropriate that Neo , when he went to see the Oracle to find out that he is The One , was also shown that the reality he was constantly presented with was simply a computer manipulation .
This is why " there is no spoon " was such a critical piece of the Matrix puzzle .
There may be no spoon , but there can still be a fork .
... " Whoa .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext> It's strangely appropriate that Neo, when he went to see the Oracle to find out that he is The One, was also shown that the reality he was constantly presented with was simply a computer manipulation.
This is why "there is no spoon" was such a critical piece of the Matrix puzzle.
There may be no spoon, but there can still be a fork.
... "Whoa.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423116</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423176</id>
	<title>Jeez what a whiner</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260725520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps Monty SHOULDN'T HAVE SOLD the damn thing in the first place if he's so worried about these things happening, no? Besides, there is NOTHING in the world preventing him from forking it, naming it something else and continuing development. NOTHING.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps Monty SHOULD N'T HAVE SOLD the damn thing in the first place if he 's so worried about these things happening , no ?
Besides , there is NOTHING in the world preventing him from forking it , naming it something else and continuing development .
NOTHING .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps Monty SHOULDN'T HAVE SOLD the damn thing in the first place if he's so worried about these things happening, no?
Besides, there is NOTHING in the world preventing him from forking it, naming it something else and continuing development.
NOTHING.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425586</id>
	<title>Monty is a lying prick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260702660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And in addition to all his whining that people here are jumping on, he flat-out <b>lied</b> about his activities with the EC. More discussion on <a href="http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091208104422384" title="groklaw.net" rel="nofollow">groklaw</a> [groklaw.net], the gist is that he has asked the EU to force MySQL to be released without the GPL, then denied having done so. Releasing MySQL back to the community is not enough; he wants a version that he can take proprietary in the future, and that is why a fork is not sufficient.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And in addition to all his whining that people here are jumping on , he flat-out lied about his activities with the EC .
More discussion on groklaw [ groklaw.net ] , the gist is that he has asked the EU to force MySQL to be released without the GPL , then denied having done so .
Releasing MySQL back to the community is not enough ; he wants a version that he can take proprietary in the future , and that is why a fork is not sufficient .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And in addition to all his whining that people here are jumping on, he flat-out lied about his activities with the EC.
More discussion on groklaw [groklaw.net], the gist is that he has asked the EU to force MySQL to be released without the GPL, then denied having done so.
Releasing MySQL back to the community is not enough; he wants a version that he can take proprietary in the future, and that is why a fork is not sufficient.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423144</id>
	<title>Perhaps you shouldn't have sold out...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260725340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps you shouldn't have sold out to Sun in the first place.  Fork the damn thing and let's get on with business.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps you should n't have sold out to Sun in the first place .
Fork the damn thing and let 's get on with business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps you shouldn't have sold out to Sun in the first place.
Fork the damn thing and let's get on with business.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423152</id>
	<title>Anonymouse Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260725400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If he thinks he should be able to call the shots........maybe he shouldn't have sold it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If he thinks he should be able to call the shots........maybe he should n't have sold it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If he thinks he should be able to call the shots........maybe he shouldn't have sold it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425792</id>
	<title>The VB of databases</title>
	<author>ABasketOfPups</author>
	<datestamp>1260704400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...VB was, before Java, extraordinarily successful. There's no reason to believe that if MySQL went away, mindshare would go to more powerful or more capable solutions, when ease and speed were what sold people on MySQL. People would more likely end up with SQLite then with PostgreSQL.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...VB was , before Java , extraordinarily successful .
There 's no reason to believe that if MySQL went away , mindshare would go to more powerful or more capable solutions , when ease and speed were what sold people on MySQL .
People would more likely end up with SQLite then with PostgreSQL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...VB was, before Java, extraordinarily successful.
There's no reason to believe that if MySQL went away, mindshare would go to more powerful or more capable solutions, when ease and speed were what sold people on MySQL.
People would more likely end up with SQLite then with PostgreSQL.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424022</id>
	<title>Maybe you should have thought of that</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260733500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>before selling your company to Sun.  You thought Sun would stick around forever?</p><p>Why should Oracle have to offer a product that "competes with its main offering"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>before selling your company to Sun .
You thought Sun would stick around forever ? Why should Oracle have to offer a product that " competes with its main offering " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>before selling your company to Sun.
You thought Sun would stick around forever?Why should Oracle have to offer a product that "competes with its main offering"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424158</id>
	<title>Re:Would not be a loss</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260734760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I would be delighted to see MySQL fail as a project and have its mindshare go to projects that are superior, like PostgreSQL.</i></p><p>But would they? That's a rather large assumption. Perhaps they would move on to other hobbies, reducing the net "mindshare" for open source as a whole.</p><p>Diversity is healthy for open source. It's completely normal and natural. People work on the things they find interesting, and no more. That's just a fact of life and it's not going to change for you. There is no top-down hierarchy that says "bob, you work on mysql, and you over there, why don't you join the postgres team". On the contrary, everybody is already exactly where they need to be; otherwise they wouldn't be there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would be delighted to see MySQL fail as a project and have its mindshare go to projects that are superior , like PostgreSQL.But would they ?
That 's a rather large assumption .
Perhaps they would move on to other hobbies , reducing the net " mindshare " for open source as a whole.Diversity is healthy for open source .
It 's completely normal and natural .
People work on the things they find interesting , and no more .
That 's just a fact of life and it 's not going to change for you .
There is no top-down hierarchy that says " bob , you work on mysql , and you over there , why do n't you join the postgres team " .
On the contrary , everybody is already exactly where they need to be ; otherwise they would n't be there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would be delighted to see MySQL fail as a project and have its mindshare go to projects that are superior, like PostgreSQL.But would they?
That's a rather large assumption.
Perhaps they would move on to other hobbies, reducing the net "mindshare" for open source as a whole.Diversity is healthy for open source.
It's completely normal and natural.
People work on the things they find interesting, and no more.
That's just a fact of life and it's not going to change for you.
There is no top-down hierarchy that says "bob, you work on mysql, and you over there, why don't you join the postgres team".
On the contrary, everybody is already exactly where they need to be; otherwise they wouldn't be there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423774</id>
	<title>"provide affordable commercial licenses to MySQL"</title>
	<author>ivoras</author>
	<datestamp>1260731100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What is reasonable and affordable for a small Swedish company certainly isn't for a big behemoth like Oracle. There are now many, many more layers to feed with the product. The time for this decision has passed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What is reasonable and affordable for a small Swedish company certainly is n't for a big behemoth like Oracle .
There are now many , many more layers to feed with the product .
The time for this decision has passed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is reasonable and affordable for a small Swedish company certainly isn't for a big behemoth like Oracle.
There are now many, many more layers to feed with the product.
The time for this decision has passed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423648</id>
	<title>Monty?</title>
	<author>Device666</author>
	<datestamp>1260730080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Monty from Monty Python?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Monty from Monty Python ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Monty from Monty Python?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30428452</id>
	<title>Not going to worry about Monty</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260732000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't care about Montys ethics or money.  MySQL has always been dual license.  Oracle doesn't want to give anyone anything for free.  MySQL is a database that eats away at their bottom end.  I have no doubts that they talked about MySQL when they were talking about buying SUN.  I can only expect that Oracle will try to do with MySQL what Microsoft did with FoxPro when they bought it from FoxSoft: the very next version of FoxPro suddenly could only access 1\% of the data as the previous version.  Several years and many releases later, it could nearly access as much data, but in 1/10 the speed, and with significant other bottlenecks.  in short, they bought it to kill it.  MSSQL won, Foxpro lost and microsoft decided.  They got their money back in 1 release (MSSQL was suddenly more expensive).  I care about MySQL.  I plan on continuing to use it.  I (me, Mr. Anonymous User), will so fork it if I have to, dammit!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't care about Montys ethics or money .
MySQL has always been dual license .
Oracle does n't want to give anyone anything for free .
MySQL is a database that eats away at their bottom end .
I have no doubts that they talked about MySQL when they were talking about buying SUN .
I can only expect that Oracle will try to do with MySQL what Microsoft did with FoxPro when they bought it from FoxSoft : the very next version of FoxPro suddenly could only access 1 \ % of the data as the previous version .
Several years and many releases later , it could nearly access as much data , but in 1/10 the speed , and with significant other bottlenecks .
in short , they bought it to kill it .
MSSQL won , Foxpro lost and microsoft decided .
They got their money back in 1 release ( MSSQL was suddenly more expensive ) .
I care about MySQL .
I plan on continuing to use it .
I ( me , Mr. Anonymous User ) , will so fork it if I have to , dammit !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't care about Montys ethics or money.
MySQL has always been dual license.
Oracle doesn't want to give anyone anything for free.
MySQL is a database that eats away at their bottom end.
I have no doubts that they talked about MySQL when they were talking about buying SUN.
I can only expect that Oracle will try to do with MySQL what Microsoft did with FoxPro when they bought it from FoxSoft: the very next version of FoxPro suddenly could only access 1\% of the data as the previous version.
Several years and many releases later, it could nearly access as much data, but in 1/10 the speed, and with significant other bottlenecks.
in short, they bought it to kill it.
MSSQL won, Foxpro lost and microsoft decided.
They got their money back in 1 release (MSSQL was suddenly more expensive).
I care about MySQL.
I plan on continuing to use it.
I (me, Mr. Anonymous User), will so fork it if I have to, dammit!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423470</id>
	<title>there are other choices</title>
	<author>Lawrence\_Bird</author>
	<datestamp>1260728460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>besides the obvous potential to fork mysql, there are other options out there such as postgresql.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>besides the obvous potential to fork mysql , there are other options out there such as postgresql .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>besides the obvous potential to fork mysql, there are other options out there such as postgresql.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425614</id>
	<title>Re:Would not be a loss</title>
	<author>poet</author>
	<datestamp>1260702840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>PostgreSQL has had Windows support for 5 years (4 years?). It has been what I would call reasonable for 3 of those and good for 18 months.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>PostgreSQL has had Windows support for 5 years ( 4 years ? ) .
It has been what I would call reasonable for 3 of those and good for 18 months .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PostgreSQL has had Windows support for 5 years (4 years?).
It has been what I would call reasonable for 3 of those and good for 18 months.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30436240</id>
	<title>Jeopardy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260788820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll take "Things I should have thought about BEFORE selling MySQL to SUN" for 1000 please Alex</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll take " Things I should have thought about BEFORE selling MySQL to SUN " for 1000 please Alex</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll take "Things I should have thought about BEFORE selling MySQL to SUN" for 1000 please Alex</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426234</id>
	<title>Re:Would not be a loss</title>
	<author>backslashdot</author>
	<datestamp>1260708060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ok so say u got this mindshare to transfer over<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. would u want some of the minds to be rotting up the other projects<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. considering they didn't exactly push the mysql the way u wanted it to get pushed<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok so say u got this mindshare to transfer over .. would u want some of the minds to be rotting up the other projects .. considering they did n't exactly push the mysql the way u wanted it to get pushed .. ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok so say u got this mindshare to transfer over .. would u want some of the minds to be rotting up the other projects .. considering they didn't exactly push the mysql the way u wanted it to get pushed .. ?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424218</id>
	<title>Re:Would not be a loss</title>
	<author>dmn</author>
	<datestamp>1260735300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>MySQL is the Visual Basic of databases - clumsy and of poor quality, used most strongly by people who don't know any better. I would be delighted to see MySQL fail as a project and have its mindshare go to projects that are superior, like PostgreSQL.</p></div><p>Agreed. There's an excellent list of MySQL "gotchas" that illustrates just how bad it is - <a href="http://sql-info.de/en/mysql/gotchas.html" title="sql-info.de" rel="nofollow">http://sql-info.de/en/mysql/gotchas.html</a> [sql-info.de]<br>The list only applies to &lt;5.0 versions - anyone know a similar list for &gt;=5.0 ?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>MySQL is the Visual Basic of databases - clumsy and of poor quality , used most strongly by people who do n't know any better .
I would be delighted to see MySQL fail as a project and have its mindshare go to projects that are superior , like PostgreSQL.Agreed .
There 's an excellent list of MySQL " gotchas " that illustrates just how bad it is - http : //sql-info.de/en/mysql/gotchas.html [ sql-info.de ] The list only applies to = 5.0 ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MySQL is the Visual Basic of databases - clumsy and of poor quality, used most strongly by people who don't know any better.
I would be delighted to see MySQL fail as a project and have its mindshare go to projects that are superior, like PostgreSQL.Agreed.
There's an excellent list of MySQL "gotchas" that illustrates just how bad it is - http://sql-info.de/en/mysql/gotchas.html [sql-info.de]The list only applies to =5.0 ?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086</id>
	<title>So fork the damn thing already!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260724920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's one of the reasons we have open source licenses.  So we can fork if we have to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's one of the reasons we have open source licenses .
So we can fork if we have to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's one of the reasons we have open source licenses.
So we can fork if we have to.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423674</id>
	<title>Re:Would not be a loss</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260730320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>MySQLe (the embedded version, which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it's a really cool idea)</p></div><p>Any thoughts on SQLite?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>and the solid Windows support (PostgreSQL added this about a year ago - I'm not sure how solid it is yet).</p></div><p>Are you sure you're not thinking about the improvements in PostgreSQL 8.0?  http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.0/static/release-8-0.html  That was nearly five years ago, although I don't use it on Windows myself so I don't know how well it works.  There have of course been various Windows-related changes since then, though.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>MySQL's wins tend to be based on good marketing for a bad product.</p></div><p>Indeed, if Oracle buying Sun increases the chance of MySQL dying, it's a good thing in my book.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>MySQLe ( the embedded version , which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it 's a really cool idea ) Any thoughts on SQLite ? and the solid Windows support ( PostgreSQL added this about a year ago - I 'm not sure how solid it is yet ) .Are you sure you 're not thinking about the improvements in PostgreSQL 8.0 ?
http : //www.postgresql.org/docs/8.0/static/release-8-0.html That was nearly five years ago , although I do n't use it on Windows myself so I do n't know how well it works .
There have of course been various Windows-related changes since then , though.MySQL 's wins tend to be based on good marketing for a bad product.Indeed , if Oracle buying Sun increases the chance of MySQL dying , it 's a good thing in my book .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MySQLe (the embedded version, which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it's a really cool idea)Any thoughts on SQLite?and the solid Windows support (PostgreSQL added this about a year ago - I'm not sure how solid it is yet).Are you sure you're not thinking about the improvements in PostgreSQL 8.0?
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.0/static/release-8-0.html  That was nearly five years ago, although I don't use it on Windows myself so I don't know how well it works.
There have of course been various Windows-related changes since then, though.MySQL's wins tend to be based on good marketing for a bad product.Indeed, if Oracle buying Sun increases the chance of MySQL dying, it's a good thing in my book.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423836</id>
	<title>the wrong spokesperson</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260731640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>whether he's in the right or not, monty is the wrong spokesperson. he has obvious conflicts of interests and possible sentimental ties to mysql. that, and the hypocritical nature of his thoughts as so many others have pointed out.</p><p>he'd be better of keeping quiet. he's probably doing more harm than good for his cause.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>whether he 's in the right or not , monty is the wrong spokesperson .
he has obvious conflicts of interests and possible sentimental ties to mysql .
that , and the hypocritical nature of his thoughts as so many others have pointed out.he 'd be better of keeping quiet .
he 's probably doing more harm than good for his cause .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>whether he's in the right or not, monty is the wrong spokesperson.
he has obvious conflicts of interests and possible sentimental ties to mysql.
that, and the hypocritical nature of his thoughts as so many others have pointed out.he'd be better of keeping quiet.
he's probably doing more harm than good for his cause.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423970</id>
	<title>You guys are missing the point!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260732960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No single entity controls the source of mysql either. It's GPL. If you want to fork it, fork it. You guys are missing the point.</p><p>The point is Widenius wants to start a new company, and wants to work off of what mysql, the company (and thousands of volunteers who have contributed to the project) have created over the past N years. He does not care if it goes to Oracle, Microsoft, some made-up nonprofit-ish foundation, or dies. He could really care less about that. He wants to build a company that will make a proprietary product and will make him money.</p><p>The thorn in his side, however, is the fact that he can't take the code that was once released as GPL and use it in his proprietary software. He either has to open up his software (which he does not want to do), or else not be able to benefit from all those years worth of effort by mysql AB and others who have contributed to the project.</p><p>If the license was just about anything but GPL (apache, BSD, whatever), he could do just that. But he can't.</p><p>What, you really think it's all about evil Oracle taking over mysql, and it's not really the license that's a thorn in Wideniuses side? Read a more in-depth analysis by someone who understands the issue a \_whole lot better\_ than I or just about any of you folks do. Here: <a href="http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091208104422384" title="groklaw.net">http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091208104422384</a> [groklaw.net]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No single entity controls the source of mysql either .
It 's GPL .
If you want to fork it , fork it .
You guys are missing the point.The point is Widenius wants to start a new company , and wants to work off of what mysql , the company ( and thousands of volunteers who have contributed to the project ) have created over the past N years .
He does not care if it goes to Oracle , Microsoft , some made-up nonprofit-ish foundation , or dies .
He could really care less about that .
He wants to build a company that will make a proprietary product and will make him money.The thorn in his side , however , is the fact that he ca n't take the code that was once released as GPL and use it in his proprietary software .
He either has to open up his software ( which he does not want to do ) , or else not be able to benefit from all those years worth of effort by mysql AB and others who have contributed to the project.If the license was just about anything but GPL ( apache , BSD , whatever ) , he could do just that .
But he ca n't.What , you really think it 's all about evil Oracle taking over mysql , and it 's not really the license that 's a thorn in Wideniuses side ?
Read a more in-depth analysis by someone who understands the issue a \ _whole lot better \ _ than I or just about any of you folks do .
Here : http : //www.groklaw.net/article.php ? story = 20091208104422384 [ groklaw.net ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No single entity controls the source of mysql either.
It's GPL.
If you want to fork it, fork it.
You guys are missing the point.The point is Widenius wants to start a new company, and wants to work off of what mysql, the company (and thousands of volunteers who have contributed to the project) have created over the past N years.
He does not care if it goes to Oracle, Microsoft, some made-up nonprofit-ish foundation, or dies.
He could really care less about that.
He wants to build a company that will make a proprietary product and will make him money.The thorn in his side, however, is the fact that he can't take the code that was once released as GPL and use it in his proprietary software.
He either has to open up his software (which he does not want to do), or else not be able to benefit from all those years worth of effort by mysql AB and others who have contributed to the project.If the license was just about anything but GPL (apache, BSD, whatever), he could do just that.
But he can't.What, you really think it's all about evil Oracle taking over mysql, and it's not really the license that's a thorn in Wideniuses side?
Read a more in-depth analysis by someone who understands the issue a \_whole lot better\_ than I or just about any of you folks do.
Here: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091208104422384 [groklaw.net]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424194</id>
	<title>Re:There is no spoon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260735120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Haha! I didn't start really laughing until I saw your user name.</p><p>So true. So true. Well done sir!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Haha !
I did n't start really laughing until I saw your user name.So true .
So true .
Well done sir !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Haha!
I didn't start really laughing until I saw your user name.So true.
So true.
Well done sir!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423116</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425202</id>
	<title>I think we better prepare for..</title>
	<author>HigH5</author>
	<datestamp>1260699780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...ForkSQL, the new MySQL.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...ForkSQL , the new MySQL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...ForkSQL, the new MySQL.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426142</id>
	<title>Re:You guys are missing the point!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260707400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If the license was just about anything but GPL (apache, BSD, whatever), he could do just that. But he can't.</p></div><p>Help me understand the issue here. Oracle, the big bad corporate entities here, now owns MySQL, the trademark.  In what sense does it own the code?  It certainly can't close what's already open.  Being GPL, they cannot just close it from this point on either.  If the problem that they won't accept code from the community from this point on, isn't that what a fork is for? Well, you probably can't call it MySQL any more, but a rose is a rose. Right? If the concern here is that it'd add some code that's tie to its patents, I am not sure what's the solution to that except abolishing softwar patent.<br> <br>If the code were under any other license, any <em>new</em> code might, depending on how the wind blows in Oracle, never see the light of day.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the license was just about anything but GPL ( apache , BSD , whatever ) , he could do just that .
But he ca n't.Help me understand the issue here .
Oracle , the big bad corporate entities here , now owns MySQL , the trademark .
In what sense does it own the code ?
It certainly ca n't close what 's already open .
Being GPL , they can not just close it from this point on either .
If the problem that they wo n't accept code from the community from this point on , is n't that what a fork is for ?
Well , you probably ca n't call it MySQL any more , but a rose is a rose .
Right ? If the concern here is that it 'd add some code that 's tie to its patents , I am not sure what 's the solution to that except abolishing softwar patent .
If the code were under any other license , any new code might , depending on how the wind blows in Oracle , never see the light of day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the license was just about anything but GPL (apache, BSD, whatever), he could do just that.
But he can't.Help me understand the issue here.
Oracle, the big bad corporate entities here, now owns MySQL, the trademark.
In what sense does it own the code?
It certainly can't close what's already open.
Being GPL, they cannot just close it from this point on either.
If the problem that they won't accept code from the community from this point on, isn't that what a fork is for?
Well, you probably can't call it MySQL any more, but a rose is a rose.
Right? If the concern here is that it'd add some code that's tie to its patents, I am not sure what's the solution to that except abolishing softwar patent.
If the code were under any other license, any new code might, depending on how the wind blows in Oracle, never see the light of day.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30433756</id>
	<title>Re:This really frustrates me...</title>
	<author>petermgreen</author>
	<datestamp>1260819120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>As others in this discussion have pointed out, if the concern about Oracle close-sourcing components of MySQL, </i><br>A much bigger concern would be if oracle refused to sell people licenses to link new copies of thier propietry software with the MySQL client libraries.</p><p><i>then why not fork it now?</i><br>People already have, the trouble is afaict mysql made most of it's money by selling the aforementioned licenses. No company can sell thier fork to those customers unless the customers are prepared to opensource thier apps.</p><p><i>Also, beyond the large installed user base, is there anything particularly important about MySQL as a database that other open source databases cannot do?</i><br>Not really IMO, it's one of the fastest ones but only if you use the unsafe myisam table type.</p><p><i>But for me, the biggest frustration is that while there is all this concern about MySQL, the lack of direction is really damaging Sun who make excellent servers (SPARC and x64), software (Solaris 10/Open Solaris with ZFS, Dtrace, Containers etc. etc, OpenOffice, Glassfish, Virtualbox, Sun Cluster (free), QFS/SAMFS (cluster FS)) and many more interesting technologies).</i></p><p><i>IMHO, the existence of Sun is a positive thing for the open source community and MySQL is a small and largely unimportant part of Sun's inventory.</i><br>Agreed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As others in this discussion have pointed out , if the concern about Oracle close-sourcing components of MySQL , A much bigger concern would be if oracle refused to sell people licenses to link new copies of thier propietry software with the MySQL client libraries.then why not fork it now ? People already have , the trouble is afaict mysql made most of it 's money by selling the aforementioned licenses .
No company can sell thier fork to those customers unless the customers are prepared to opensource thier apps.Also , beyond the large installed user base , is there anything particularly important about MySQL as a database that other open source databases can not do ? Not really IMO , it 's one of the fastest ones but only if you use the unsafe myisam table type.But for me , the biggest frustration is that while there is all this concern about MySQL , the lack of direction is really damaging Sun who make excellent servers ( SPARC and x64 ) , software ( Solaris 10/Open Solaris with ZFS , Dtrace , Containers etc .
etc , OpenOffice , Glassfish , Virtualbox , Sun Cluster ( free ) , QFS/SAMFS ( cluster FS ) ) and many more interesting technologies ) .IMHO , the existence of Sun is a positive thing for the open source community and MySQL is a small and largely unimportant part of Sun 's inventory.Agreed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As others in this discussion have pointed out, if the concern about Oracle close-sourcing components of MySQL, A much bigger concern would be if oracle refused to sell people licenses to link new copies of thier propietry software with the MySQL client libraries.then why not fork it now?People already have, the trouble is afaict mysql made most of it's money by selling the aforementioned licenses.
No company can sell thier fork to those customers unless the customers are prepared to opensource thier apps.Also, beyond the large installed user base, is there anything particularly important about MySQL as a database that other open source databases cannot do?Not really IMO, it's one of the fastest ones but only if you use the unsafe myisam table type.But for me, the biggest frustration is that while there is all this concern about MySQL, the lack of direction is really damaging Sun who make excellent servers (SPARC and x64), software (Solaris 10/Open Solaris with ZFS, Dtrace, Containers etc.
etc, OpenOffice, Glassfish, Virtualbox, Sun Cluster (free), QFS/SAMFS (cluster FS)) and many more interesting technologies).IMHO, the existence of Sun is a positive thing for the open source community and MySQL is a small and largely unimportant part of Sun's inventory.Agreed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423738</id>
	<title>Sellout</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260730800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If he cared in the first place why did he sell it to Sun, he has no say he sold it. That's like me selling a car to someone and telling them they can't crash it. If I didn't want it crashed I shouldn't have sold it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If he cared in the first place why did he sell it to Sun , he has no say he sold it .
That 's like me selling a car to someone and telling them they ca n't crash it .
If I did n't want it crashed I should n't have sold it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If he cared in the first place why did he sell it to Sun, he has no say he sold it.
That's like me selling a car to someone and telling them they can't crash it.
If I didn't want it crashed I shouldn't have sold it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30429744</id>
	<title>Use Percona fork</title>
	<author>Sam Lowry</author>
	<datestamp>1260796560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I use Percona MySQL builds for over a year already. Heartily recommended. And no, I have no connection to Percona whatsoever.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I use Percona MySQL builds for over a year already .
Heartily recommended .
And no , I have no connection to Percona whatsoever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use Percona MySQL builds for over a year already.
Heartily recommended.
And no, I have no connection to Percona whatsoever.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423142</id>
	<title>Re:So fork the damn thing already!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260725340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We can leave those bits behind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We can leave those bits behind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We can leave those bits behind.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423164</id>
	<title>Monty Needs to STFU</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260725460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If he gave a shit about what happened to MySQL, he would not have sold it.</p><p>Instead, he made gobs of money and no longer has a say in what happens to the property except insofar as he is free to fork it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If he gave a shit about what happened to MySQL , he would not have sold it.Instead , he made gobs of money and no longer has a say in what happens to the property except insofar as he is free to fork it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If he gave a shit about what happened to MySQL, he would not have sold it.Instead, he made gobs of money and no longer has a say in what happens to the property except insofar as he is free to fork it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423506</id>
	<title>Re:Jeez what a whiner</title>
	<author>M. Baranczak</author>
	<datestamp>1260728880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He already did fork it: <a href="http://askmonty.org/wiki/index.php/MariaDB" title="askmonty.org">http://askmonty.org/wiki/index.php/MariaDB</a> [askmonty.org]</p><p>So I'm really not sure what he's complaining about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He already did fork it : http : //askmonty.org/wiki/index.php/MariaDB [ askmonty.org ] So I 'm really not sure what he 's complaining about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He already did fork it: http://askmonty.org/wiki/index.php/MariaDB [askmonty.org]So I'm really not sure what he's complaining about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423176</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30433110</id>
	<title>New article by Eben Moglen</title>
	<author>janwedekind</author>
	<datestamp>1260815820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Eben Moglen just released the article <a href="http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu/blog/cases/oracle-sun/ec-hearing-and-after.html" title="columbia.edu">The European Commission and Oracle-Sun</a> [columbia.edu].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Eben Moglen just released the article The European Commission and Oracle-Sun [ columbia.edu ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Eben Moglen just released the article The European Commission and Oracle-Sun [columbia.edu].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30428110</id>
	<title>GO</title>
	<author>cosm</author>
	<datestamp>1260727140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>DROP tblOracle FROM mysql; UPDATE tblBadIdeas SET Oracle = true; INSERT INTO tblYourVagina (MyPenis) VALUES ('FUN');

query language is tehfunzors!</htmltext>
<tokenext>DROP tblOracle FROM mysql ; UPDATE tblBadIdeas SET Oracle = true ; INSERT INTO tblYourVagina ( MyPenis ) VALUES ( 'FUN ' ) ; query language is tehfunzors !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DROP tblOracle FROM mysql; UPDATE tblBadIdeas SET Oracle = true; INSERT INTO tblYourVagina (MyPenis) VALUES ('FUN');

query language is tehfunzors!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30428474</id>
	<title>Greed at work.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260732480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He already sold it all off to Sun, once, for a pile of cash, why does he care now about which corporate owns it?</p><p>I'm sure if Oracle cut him a check that had enough 0's on it, he'd shut up - he's already demonstrated that he values money in his pocket more than open source purity, so I'm sure stuffing his wallet a little bit more would pacify him.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He already sold it all off to Sun , once , for a pile of cash , why does he care now about which corporate owns it ? I 'm sure if Oracle cut him a check that had enough 0 's on it , he 'd shut up - he 's already demonstrated that he values money in his pocket more than open source purity , so I 'm sure stuffing his wallet a little bit more would pacify him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He already sold it all off to Sun, once, for a pile of cash, why does he care now about which corporate owns it?I'm sure if Oracle cut him a check that had enough 0's on it, he'd shut up - he's already demonstrated that he values money in his pocket more than open source purity, so I'm sure stuffing his wallet a little bit more would pacify him.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423222</id>
	<title>*Exactly* why it is better to have a community</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260726000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People in the Open Source community have been warning against this for years with MySQL. It is one of the key tenets in the PostgreSQL vs MySQL playbook. Use PostgreSQL because no single company controls the source. It can't be bought. MySQL dug its own destiny by tying its hand into the GPL AND (note the AND) being owned by a single entity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People in the Open Source community have been warning against this for years with MySQL .
It is one of the key tenets in the PostgreSQL vs MySQL playbook .
Use PostgreSQL because no single company controls the source .
It ca n't be bought .
MySQL dug its own destiny by tying its hand into the GPL AND ( note the AND ) being owned by a single entity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People in the Open Source community have been warning against this for years with MySQL.
It is one of the key tenets in the PostgreSQL vs MySQL playbook.
Use PostgreSQL because no single company controls the source.
It can't be bought.
MySQL dug its own destiny by tying its hand into the GPL AND (note the AND) being owned by a single entity.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424226</id>
	<title>MariaDB is one ugly name for a DB</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260735360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He names the db after his daughter, Maria.  It's an ugly name for a database.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He names the db after his daughter , Maria .
It 's an ugly name for a database .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He names the db after his daughter, Maria.
It's an ugly name for a database.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425664</id>
	<title>Re:Monty Needs to STFU</title>
	<author>smack.addict</author>
	<datestamp>1260703140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So what?</p><p>When he sold to Sun, he made his cash and gave up any rights to say what happened to the software. From that point on, it could have been purchased by the devil himself and Monty should still shut the fuck up.</p><p>He's wanting it both ways. He wants to have his cash and influence the direction of MySQL. The fact is, Oracle bought MySQL fairly. Monty needs to stop whining.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So what ? When he sold to Sun , he made his cash and gave up any rights to say what happened to the software .
From that point on , it could have been purchased by the devil himself and Monty should still shut the fuck up.He 's wanting it both ways .
He wants to have his cash and influence the direction of MySQL .
The fact is , Oracle bought MySQL fairly .
Monty needs to stop whining .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what?When he sold to Sun, he made his cash and gave up any rights to say what happened to the software.
From that point on, it could have been purchased by the devil himself and Monty should still shut the fuck up.He's wanting it both ways.
He wants to have his cash and influence the direction of MySQL.
The fact is, Oracle bought MySQL fairly.
Monty needs to stop whining.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423912</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423098</id>
	<title>Greed...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260725040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, now, being a very rich guy (1B is a lot of money), he wants to it back for free?  That's fair... Right...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , now , being a very rich guy ( 1B is a lot of money ) , he wants to it back for free ?
That 's fair... Right.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, now, being a very rich guy (1B is a lot of money), he wants to it back for free?
That's fair... Right...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426404</id>
	<title>Re:*Exactly* why it is better to have a community</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260710220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's an even bigger problem.</p><p>The MySQL connector library that pretty much everyone running MySQL has to use isn't LGPL (it is GPL). You cannot even link it into a program that isn't specifically released under the GPL license. For example linking the MySql Connector/J library to an Apache license webserver is illegal.</p><p>There are many many websites out there that can currently be sued by Sun/Oracle for using MySQL illegally.</p><p>If you want to run a forum or such on a webserver that runs Tomcat (Apache license) you can't legally link a library that is GPL into that server. You should be using PostgeSQL in such a case.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's an even bigger problem.The MySQL connector library that pretty much everyone running MySQL has to use is n't LGPL ( it is GPL ) .
You can not even link it into a program that is n't specifically released under the GPL license .
For example linking the MySql Connector/J library to an Apache license webserver is illegal.There are many many websites out there that can currently be sued by Sun/Oracle for using MySQL illegally.If you want to run a forum or such on a webserver that runs Tomcat ( Apache license ) you ca n't legally link a library that is GPL into that server .
You should be using PostgeSQL in such a case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's an even bigger problem.The MySQL connector library that pretty much everyone running MySQL has to use isn't LGPL (it is GPL).
You cannot even link it into a program that isn't specifically released under the GPL license.
For example linking the MySql Connector/J library to an Apache license webserver is illegal.There are many many websites out there that can currently be sued by Sun/Oracle for using MySQL illegally.If you want to run a forum or such on a webserver that runs Tomcat (Apache license) you can't legally link a library that is GPL into that server.
You should be using PostgeSQL in such a case.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425900</id>
	<title>Re:Would not be a loss</title>
	<author>dkf</author>
	<datestamp>1260705420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There are only two things I can think of that the world would miss - MySQLe (the embedded version, which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it's a really cool idea) and the solid Windows support (PostgreSQL added this about a year ago - I'm not sure how solid it is yet).</p></div><p>SQLite is great for embedded databases, even on Windows. And would you <i>really</i> want to run a server DB on Windows? About the only reason I can think of offhand is if you're in an all-Microsoft shop, and if that's so, why would you worry about using an open source server DB? Just go for MS's own product; it won't change the amount that you're tied in...</p><p>You're not tied to whatever happens to MySQL. You're certainly not tied to what happens to Sun (unless you work there, of course). And you are most certainly not tied to whatever that stupid hypocrite Monty Widenius says. Ignore his pathetic bleatings, and the world will be a better place. That's the good thing about OSS; you can ignore whatever crap that the author of the software is into - including whether they want to support the code - and just focus on whether the software itself is any good for your purposes. (For those of you following along at home, Monty is a stupid hypocrite because he sold out and left, but is still trying to run things; if you take the money and run, you kiss goodbye to that which you sold. That's what a sale is.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are only two things I can think of that the world would miss - MySQLe ( the embedded version , which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it 's a really cool idea ) and the solid Windows support ( PostgreSQL added this about a year ago - I 'm not sure how solid it is yet ) .SQLite is great for embedded databases , even on Windows .
And would you really want to run a server DB on Windows ?
About the only reason I can think of offhand is if you 're in an all-Microsoft shop , and if that 's so , why would you worry about using an open source server DB ?
Just go for MS 's own product ; it wo n't change the amount that you 're tied in...You 're not tied to whatever happens to MySQL .
You 're certainly not tied to what happens to Sun ( unless you work there , of course ) .
And you are most certainly not tied to whatever that stupid hypocrite Monty Widenius says .
Ignore his pathetic bleatings , and the world will be a better place .
That 's the good thing about OSS ; you can ignore whatever crap that the author of the software is into - including whether they want to support the code - and just focus on whether the software itself is any good for your purposes .
( For those of you following along at home , Monty is a stupid hypocrite because he sold out and left , but is still trying to run things ; if you take the money and run , you kiss goodbye to that which you sold .
That 's what a sale is .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are only two things I can think of that the world would miss - MySQLe (the embedded version, which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it's a really cool idea) and the solid Windows support (PostgreSQL added this about a year ago - I'm not sure how solid it is yet).SQLite is great for embedded databases, even on Windows.
And would you really want to run a server DB on Windows?
About the only reason I can think of offhand is if you're in an all-Microsoft shop, and if that's so, why would you worry about using an open source server DB?
Just go for MS's own product; it won't change the amount that you're tied in...You're not tied to whatever happens to MySQL.
You're certainly not tied to what happens to Sun (unless you work there, of course).
And you are most certainly not tied to whatever that stupid hypocrite Monty Widenius says.
Ignore his pathetic bleatings, and the world will be a better place.
That's the good thing about OSS; you can ignore whatever crap that the author of the software is into - including whether they want to support the code - and just focus on whether the software itself is any good for your purposes.
(For those of you following along at home, Monty is a stupid hypocrite because he sold out and left, but is still trying to run things; if you take the money and run, you kiss goodbye to that which you sold.
That's what a sale is.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30430940</id>
	<title>Re:You guys are missing the point!</title>
	<author>janwedekind</author>
	<datestamp>1260805860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought they were working on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drizzle\_(database\_server)" title="wikipedia.org">Drizzle</a> [wikipedia.org]. But suggesting to the EU to force Oracle to relicense MySQL under the Apache License <b>after</b> having it sold to them (indirectly) doesn't exactly sound like a neutral point of view<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought they were working on Drizzle [ wikipedia.org ] .
But suggesting to the EU to force Oracle to relicense MySQL under the Apache License after having it sold to them ( indirectly ) does n't exactly sound like a neutral point of view ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought they were working on Drizzle [wikipedia.org].
But suggesting to the EU to force Oracle to relicense MySQL under the Apache License after having it sold to them (indirectly) doesn't exactly sound like a neutral point of view ;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424350</id>
	<title>Re:So fork the damn thing already!</title>
	<author>gumbi west</author>
	<datestamp>1260736440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But the OS license allowed further licensing. That could easily make an irrevocable license. That is A licenses B which licenses C, then A revokes the license of B, but B lets C continue on with its license.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But the OS license allowed further licensing .
That could easily make an irrevocable license .
That is A licenses B which licenses C , then A revokes the license of B , but B lets C continue on with its license .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But the OS license allowed further licensing.
That could easily make an irrevocable license.
That is A licenses B which licenses C, then A revokes the license of B, but B lets C continue on with its license.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426772</id>
	<title>Re:This really frustrates me...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260713580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As far as I'm concerned, MySQL can go fork itself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as I 'm concerned , MySQL can go fork itself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as I'm concerned, MySQL can go fork itself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423118</id>
	<title>Meh, use Firebird</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260725220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Has more features, performs better, and has a more permissive license which allows embedding in non-GPL applications.</p><p>It's missing some stuff (like multiple indexing types) but I'm sure with a larger user base we could get those features done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Has more features , performs better , and has a more permissive license which allows embedding in non-GPL applications.It 's missing some stuff ( like multiple indexing types ) but I 'm sure with a larger user base we could get those features done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has more features, performs better, and has a more permissive license which allows embedding in non-GPL applications.It's missing some stuff (like multiple indexing types) but I'm sure with a larger user base we could get those features done.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426306</id>
	<title>Re:So fork the damn thing already!</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1260708960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Bingo, thanks for raising this issue.  GPL2 does not state that it is irrevocable.  Stallman and Moglen claim that it's implicit, but then went and added an explicit statement of irrevocability to GPL3.  We'll need case law (in each jurisdiction) to decide whether the free ride can be terminated.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Bingo , thanks for raising this issue .
GPL2 does not state that it is irrevocable .
Stallman and Moglen claim that it 's implicit , but then went and added an explicit statement of irrevocability to GPL3 .
We 'll need case law ( in each jurisdiction ) to decide whether the free ride can be terminated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bingo, thanks for raising this issue.
GPL2 does not state that it is irrevocable.
Stallman and Moglen claim that it's implicit, but then went and added an explicit statement of irrevocability to GPL3.
We'll need case law (in each jurisdiction) to decide whether the free ride can be terminated.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425644</id>
	<title>MySQL warnings?</title>
	<author>tyrione</author>
	<datestamp>1260703080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oh look! PostgreSQL 8.5.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh look !
PostgreSQL 8.5 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh look!
PostgreSQL 8.5.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423528</id>
	<title>Cant help myself...</title>
	<author>miffo.swe</author>
	<datestamp>1260729060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But i take anything Monty says these days with a heavy dosage of salt, especially if it happens to coincide with Microsofts current viewpoint.</p><p><a href="http://www.codeplex.org/board-of-directors.aspx" title="codeplex.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.codeplex.org/board-of-directors.aspx</a> [codeplex.org]</p><p>Recommended reading is this from his blog:</p><p><a href="http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/09/codeplex-foundation-why-is-microsoft.html" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/09/codeplex-foundation-why-is-microsoft.html</a> [blogspot.com]</p><p>Doing a character assasination with those gems in mind would be redundant. Its obvious Microsoft is scared shit that Oracle will undercut it in the SMB market with MySQL and Oracles wast support structure. Call in the drones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But i take anything Monty says these days with a heavy dosage of salt , especially if it happens to coincide with Microsofts current viewpoint.http : //www.codeplex.org/board-of-directors.aspx [ codeplex.org ] Recommended reading is this from his blog : http : //monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/09/codeplex-foundation-why-is-microsoft.html [ blogspot.com ] Doing a character assasination with those gems in mind would be redundant .
Its obvious Microsoft is scared shit that Oracle will undercut it in the SMB market with MySQL and Oracles wast support structure .
Call in the drones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But i take anything Monty says these days with a heavy dosage of salt, especially if it happens to coincide with Microsofts current viewpoint.http://www.codeplex.org/board-of-directors.aspx [codeplex.org]Recommended reading is this from his blog:http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/09/codeplex-foundation-why-is-microsoft.html [blogspot.com]Doing a character assasination with those gems in mind would be redundant.
Its obvious Microsoft is scared shit that Oracle will undercut it in the SMB market with MySQL and Oracles wast support structure.
Call in the drones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424426</id>
	<title>Re:You guys are missing the point!</title>
	<author>DNS-and-BIND</author>
	<datestamp>1260737040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>He could really care less about that.</i> </p><p>When one usually states "I could care less", they usually mean "I could not care less". [e.g. "I could care less about linguistics."]<br>

In order for one to "care less" about a subject, they must first care about it somewhat. Saying "I could care less about<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... " does indeed imply, nay dictate, that there is some degree of care.<br>

<a href="http://incompetech.com/gallimaufry/care\_less.html" title="incompetech.com">Here is a handy chart to help visualize.</a> [incompetech.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He could really care less about that .
When one usually states " I could care less " , they usually mean " I could not care less " .
[ e.g. " I could care less about linguistics .
" ] In order for one to " care less " about a subject , they must first care about it somewhat .
Saying " I could care less about ... " does indeed imply , nay dictate , that there is some degree of care .
Here is a handy chart to help visualize .
[ incompetech.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext> He could really care less about that.
When one usually states "I could care less", they usually mean "I could not care less".
[e.g. "I could care less about linguistics.
"]

In order for one to "care less" about a subject, they must first care about it somewhat.
Saying "I could care less about ... " does indeed imply, nay dictate, that there is some degree of care.
Here is a handy chart to help visualize.
[incompetech.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423244</id>
	<title>Re:So fork the damn thing already!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260726300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is possible if I read this right. <a href="http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/php-bsd-me/the-mysql-license-8922" title="toolbox.com">http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/php-bsd-me/the-mysql-license-8922</a> [toolbox.com]<br>It would leave any closed source licensed versions dependent on Oracle or force them to carefully separate out their code from mysql so they can use the forked version.</p><p>I would use Postgresql <a href="http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/MySQL\_vs\_PostgreSQL" title="wikivs.com">http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/MySQL\_vs\_PostgreSQL</a> [wikivs.com] since it's standards compliant, feature full and is fast if properly configured.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is possible if I read this right .
http : //it.toolbox.com/blogs/php-bsd-me/the-mysql-license-8922 [ toolbox.com ] It would leave any closed source licensed versions dependent on Oracle or force them to carefully separate out their code from mysql so they can use the forked version.I would use Postgresql http : //www.wikivs.com/wiki/MySQL \ _vs \ _PostgreSQL [ wikivs.com ] since it 's standards compliant , feature full and is fast if properly configured .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is possible if I read this right.
http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/php-bsd-me/the-mysql-license-8922 [toolbox.com]It would leave any closed source licensed versions dependent on Oracle or force them to carefully separate out their code from mysql so they can use the forked version.I would use Postgresql http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/MySQL\_vs\_PostgreSQL [wikivs.com] since it's standards compliant, feature full and is fast if properly configured.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424130</id>
	<title>Welcome to reality</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260734340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Earth to Widenius come in...</p><p>Oracle spent ONE BILLION DOLLARS on MySQL.  It has the right to do whatever the hell it wants with it including driving the entire project into the grond.</p><p>If you don't like it FORK it.  Don't expect any sympathy for being a sellout.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Earth to Widenius come in...Oracle spent ONE BILLION DOLLARS on MySQL .
It has the right to do whatever the hell it wants with it including driving the entire project into the grond.If you do n't like it FORK it .
Do n't expect any sympathy for being a sellout .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Earth to Widenius come in...Oracle spent ONE BILLION DOLLARS on MySQL.
It has the right to do whatever the hell it wants with it including driving the entire project into the grond.If you don't like it FORK it.
Don't expect any sympathy for being a sellout.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423644</id>
	<title>Is there a point?  Oracle can't undo GNU.</title>
	<author>WilliamBaughman</author>
	<datestamp>1260730080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't mean to troll, I'm really hoping that someone can explain what the point of all this worry is.  Can Oracle really make MySQL not be free?  It's my understanding that they could start charing people to buy or license MySQL from them, but that they can't stop people from taking the MySQL source code that's already available, and using it for whatever they want, including selling it.  No matter how Oracle changes the licensing terms, or how many proprietary extensions Oracle adds, anyone should be able to take one of the old, freely released versions of MySQL, and sell it for money without Oracle being able to stop them.  Even if MySQL is a trademarked name, the new seller would just have to use a different name.  I really don't understand what Widenius is talking about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't mean to troll , I 'm really hoping that someone can explain what the point of all this worry is .
Can Oracle really make MySQL not be free ?
It 's my understanding that they could start charing people to buy or license MySQL from them , but that they ca n't stop people from taking the MySQL source code that 's already available , and using it for whatever they want , including selling it .
No matter how Oracle changes the licensing terms , or how many proprietary extensions Oracle adds , anyone should be able to take one of the old , freely released versions of MySQL , and sell it for money without Oracle being able to stop them .
Even if MySQL is a trademarked name , the new seller would just have to use a different name .
I really do n't understand what Widenius is talking about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't mean to troll, I'm really hoping that someone can explain what the point of all this worry is.
Can Oracle really make MySQL not be free?
It's my understanding that they could start charing people to buy or license MySQL from them, but that they can't stop people from taking the MySQL source code that's already available, and using it for whatever they want, including selling it.
No matter how Oracle changes the licensing terms, or how many proprietary extensions Oracle adds, anyone should be able to take one of the old, freely released versions of MySQL, and sell it for money without Oracle being able to stop them.
Even if MySQL is a trademarked name, the new seller would just have to use a different name.
I really don't understand what Widenius is talking about.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426436</id>
	<title>Re:So fork the damn thing already!</title>
	<author>harlows\_monkeys</author>
	<datestamp>1260710520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can you effectively fork it? Stallman <a href="http://keionline.org/ec-mysql" title="keionline.org">doesn't think so</a> [keionline.org].</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can you effectively fork it ?
Stallman does n't think so [ keionline.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can you effectively fork it?
Stallman doesn't think so [keionline.org].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423612</id>
	<title>Just switch...</title>
	<author>corecaptain</author>
	<datestamp>1260729780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had moved some new work to postgres, after the sun+oracle announcement I migrated some older code to postgres.</p><p>I also weaned myself off of Netbeans.</p><p>I've been in this business too long to have any illusions that Oracle is going to fund competitors to its revenue earning products.  Oracle<br>doesn't want you on MySQL- at the minimum they want you on Oracle XE.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had moved some new work to postgres , after the sun + oracle announcement I migrated some older code to postgres.I also weaned myself off of Netbeans.I 've been in this business too long to have any illusions that Oracle is going to fund competitors to its revenue earning products .
Oracledoes n't want you on MySQL- at the minimum they want you on Oracle XE .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had moved some new work to postgres, after the sun+oracle announcement I migrated some older code to postgres.I also weaned myself off of Netbeans.I've been in this business too long to have any illusions that Oracle is going to fund competitors to its revenue earning products.
Oracledoesn't want you on MySQL- at the minimum they want you on Oracle XE.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30428128</id>
	<title>Re:There is no spoon</title>
	<author>flydpnkrtn</author>
	<datestamp>1260727380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oh god my brain hurts after this one... can we just stick to car analogies BadAnalogyGuy?
<br> <br><nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh god my brain hurts after this one... can we just stick to car analogies BadAnalogyGuy ?
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh god my brain hurts after this one... can we just stick to car analogies BadAnalogyGuy?
;-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423116</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423096</id>
	<title>And what did Monty do?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260725040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Besides being a hippocrite, after he was paid, bolted for the door the first opportunity he got. If it was so important to him, he wouldn't have sold to Sun in the first place. Man up and stay with the company and product if you are so concerned.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Besides being a hippocrite , after he was paid , bolted for the door the first opportunity he got .
If it was so important to him , he would n't have sold to Sun in the first place .
Man up and stay with the company and product if you are so concerned .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Besides being a hippocrite, after he was paid, bolted for the door the first opportunity he got.
If it was so important to him, he wouldn't have sold to Sun in the first place.
Man up and stay with the company and product if you are so concerned.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423292</id>
	<title>Re:So fork the damn thing already!</title>
	<author>Toze</author>
	<datestamp>1260726600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Fork it and then name it <a href="http://askmonty.org/wiki/index.php/MariaDB" title="askmonty.org" rel="nofollow">MariaDB</a> [askmonty.org], specifically.

Sun buys MySQL. Monty complains about Sun's treatment of MySQL. Monty leaves MySQL. Monty forks MySQL. Monty complains about Oracle. This isn't exactly a surprising development.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Fork it and then name it MariaDB [ askmonty.org ] , specifically .
Sun buys MySQL .
Monty complains about Sun 's treatment of MySQL .
Monty leaves MySQL .
Monty forks MySQL .
Monty complains about Oracle .
This is n't exactly a surprising development .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fork it and then name it MariaDB [askmonty.org], specifically.
Sun buys MySQL.
Monty complains about Sun's treatment of MySQL.
Monty leaves MySQL.
Monty forks MySQL.
Monty complains about Oracle.
This isn't exactly a surprising development.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424318</id>
	<title>Re:This really frustrates me...</title>
	<author>Miamicanes</author>
	<datestamp>1260736200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem with a fork is that it would eventually kill MySQL.</p><p>If Oracle ends up owning MySQL and MySQL doesn't visibly fork, Oracle will be under pressure to keep MySQL semi-affordable and at least pretend they want it to be viable.</p><p>Remember... right now, there are two ways to license MySQL:</p><p>* You can distribute it with another application that is itself GPL'ed</p><p>* You can purchase a non-free license and distribute it with your non-GPL'ed application</p><p>The license to distribute MySQL as part of a turnkey non-GPL'ed solution isn't cheap... but it's still a lot cheaper than Oracle.</p><p>If a viable GPL'ed fork of MySQL were to emerge (possibly with Monty at the helm), it would take the heat off of Oracle, and allow them to slowly strangle it for non-GPL'ed use... raising the licensing fees to bring them more in line with those of Oracle, limiting its feature set (things like partitioning, for example) to keep it from competing too effectively against their more expensive database, limiting the number of cpus/cores it will use (or that are allowed to exist on the host server), etc.</p><p>Remember, under MySQL's license, if you write a non-GPL'ed app that depends upon MySQL, you can not automate its installation or configuration in any way without violating the licensing terms of MySQL's "Free" license. Nor can consultants paid to install your app do it. Only the end user, or its collective employees themselves, can do it.</p><p>Pre-Sun, Monty's company owned the right to give MySQL away and sell licenses for it. A forked company would still have the right to develop and give away GPL'ed copies, but only Oracle would have the right to sell it under a more permissive (but violently expensive) license. Also, Oracle could license commercial versions with restrictions about what non-Oracle add-ins could be used with it to extends its capabilities beyond those allowed by Oracle itself.</p><p>Ideally, the EU should require that Oracle either spin off MySQL as an independent company they're prohibited from exercising control over, or sell it to someone like Redhat, who'll keep the free version evolving without trying to kill off its commercial licensing for ideological reasons. Hell, even IBM would be an improvement over Oracle for owning MySQL. IBM has a conflict of interest with DB2, but from what I've seen, IBM has always viewed DB2 as an excuse to upsell the customer to a mainframe. IBM might not PUSH MySQL to its consulting clients, but it's not opposed to cashing checks for a product that doesn't really NEED a lot of handholding anyway, and using it for both public relations and a recruiting tool to bring growing companies into the IBM customer base (think: Eclipse -&gt; Websphere).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with a fork is that it would eventually kill MySQL.If Oracle ends up owning MySQL and MySQL does n't visibly fork , Oracle will be under pressure to keep MySQL semi-affordable and at least pretend they want it to be viable.Remember... right now , there are two ways to license MySQL : * You can distribute it with another application that is itself GPL'ed * You can purchase a non-free license and distribute it with your non-GPL'ed applicationThe license to distribute MySQL as part of a turnkey non-GPL'ed solution is n't cheap... but it 's still a lot cheaper than Oracle.If a viable GPL'ed fork of MySQL were to emerge ( possibly with Monty at the helm ) , it would take the heat off of Oracle , and allow them to slowly strangle it for non-GPL'ed use... raising the licensing fees to bring them more in line with those of Oracle , limiting its feature set ( things like partitioning , for example ) to keep it from competing too effectively against their more expensive database , limiting the number of cpus/cores it will use ( or that are allowed to exist on the host server ) , etc.Remember , under MySQL 's license , if you write a non-GPL'ed app that depends upon MySQL , you can not automate its installation or configuration in any way without violating the licensing terms of MySQL 's " Free " license .
Nor can consultants paid to install your app do it .
Only the end user , or its collective employees themselves , can do it.Pre-Sun , Monty 's company owned the right to give MySQL away and sell licenses for it .
A forked company would still have the right to develop and give away GPL'ed copies , but only Oracle would have the right to sell it under a more permissive ( but violently expensive ) license .
Also , Oracle could license commercial versions with restrictions about what non-Oracle add-ins could be used with it to extends its capabilities beyond those allowed by Oracle itself.Ideally , the EU should require that Oracle either spin off MySQL as an independent company they 're prohibited from exercising control over , or sell it to someone like Redhat , who 'll keep the free version evolving without trying to kill off its commercial licensing for ideological reasons .
Hell , even IBM would be an improvement over Oracle for owning MySQL .
IBM has a conflict of interest with DB2 , but from what I 've seen , IBM has always viewed DB2 as an excuse to upsell the customer to a mainframe .
IBM might not PUSH MySQL to its consulting clients , but it 's not opposed to cashing checks for a product that does n't really NEED a lot of handholding anyway , and using it for both public relations and a recruiting tool to bring growing companies into the IBM customer base ( think : Eclipse - &gt; Websphere ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with a fork is that it would eventually kill MySQL.If Oracle ends up owning MySQL and MySQL doesn't visibly fork, Oracle will be under pressure to keep MySQL semi-affordable and at least pretend they want it to be viable.Remember... right now, there are two ways to license MySQL:* You can distribute it with another application that is itself GPL'ed* You can purchase a non-free license and distribute it with your non-GPL'ed applicationThe license to distribute MySQL as part of a turnkey non-GPL'ed solution isn't cheap... but it's still a lot cheaper than Oracle.If a viable GPL'ed fork of MySQL were to emerge (possibly with Monty at the helm), it would take the heat off of Oracle, and allow them to slowly strangle it for non-GPL'ed use... raising the licensing fees to bring them more in line with those of Oracle, limiting its feature set (things like partitioning, for example) to keep it from competing too effectively against their more expensive database, limiting the number of cpus/cores it will use (or that are allowed to exist on the host server), etc.Remember, under MySQL's license, if you write a non-GPL'ed app that depends upon MySQL, you can not automate its installation or configuration in any way without violating the licensing terms of MySQL's "Free" license.
Nor can consultants paid to install your app do it.
Only the end user, or its collective employees themselves, can do it.Pre-Sun, Monty's company owned the right to give MySQL away and sell licenses for it.
A forked company would still have the right to develop and give away GPL'ed copies, but only Oracle would have the right to sell it under a more permissive (but violently expensive) license.
Also, Oracle could license commercial versions with restrictions about what non-Oracle add-ins could be used with it to extends its capabilities beyond those allowed by Oracle itself.Ideally, the EU should require that Oracle either spin off MySQL as an independent company they're prohibited from exercising control over, or sell it to someone like Redhat, who'll keep the free version evolving without trying to kill off its commercial licensing for ideological reasons.
Hell, even IBM would be an improvement over Oracle for owning MySQL.
IBM has a conflict of interest with DB2, but from what I've seen, IBM has always viewed DB2 as an excuse to upsell the customer to a mainframe.
IBM might not PUSH MySQL to its consulting clients, but it's not opposed to cashing checks for a product that doesn't really NEED a lot of handholding anyway, and using it for both public relations and a recruiting tool to bring growing companies into the IBM customer base (think: Eclipse -&gt; Websphere).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423354</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425568</id>
	<title>Re:Jeez what a whiner</title>
	<author>yuhong</author>
	<datestamp>1260702540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, most of the MySQL problems Monty complained about happened before it was sold to Sun, and the sale to Sun was supposed to make it better but didn't. I wonder if things would have been better if Monty had more control over the original company. Of course I am sure it is not that simple but still.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , most of the MySQL problems Monty complained about happened before it was sold to Sun , and the sale to Sun was supposed to make it better but did n't .
I wonder if things would have been better if Monty had more control over the original company .
Of course I am sure it is not that simple but still .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, most of the MySQL problems Monty complained about happened before it was sold to Sun, and the sale to Sun was supposed to make it better but didn't.
I wonder if things would have been better if Monty had more control over the original company.
Of course I am sure it is not that simple but still.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423176</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582</id>
	<title>Would not be a loss</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260729480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>MySQL is the Visual Basic of databases - clumsy and of poor quality, used most strongly by people who don't know any better. I would be delighted to see MySQL fail as a project and have its mindshare go to projects that are superior, like PostgreSQL. There are only two things I can think of that the world would miss - MySQLe (the embedded version, which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it's a really cool idea) and the solid Windows support (PostgreSQL added this about a year ago - I'm not sure how solid it is yet).</p><p>MySQL's wins tend to be based on good marketing for a bad product.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MySQL is the Visual Basic of databases - clumsy and of poor quality , used most strongly by people who do n't know any better .
I would be delighted to see MySQL fail as a project and have its mindshare go to projects that are superior , like PostgreSQL .
There are only two things I can think of that the world would miss - MySQLe ( the embedded version , which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it 's a really cool idea ) and the solid Windows support ( PostgreSQL added this about a year ago - I 'm not sure how solid it is yet ) .MySQL 's wins tend to be based on good marketing for a bad product .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MySQL is the Visual Basic of databases - clumsy and of poor quality, used most strongly by people who don't know any better.
I would be delighted to see MySQL fail as a project and have its mindshare go to projects that are superior, like PostgreSQL.
There are only two things I can think of that the world would miss - MySQLe (the embedded version, which competes with BDB-esque type uses - it's a really cool idea) and the solid Windows support (PostgreSQL added this about a year ago - I'm not sure how solid it is yet).MySQL's wins tend to be based on good marketing for a bad product.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423536</id>
	<title>Re:The case should be made to government</title>
	<author>jjohnson</author>
	<datestamp>1260729120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks to the license under which the current version of MySQL was released, it doesn't matter what Oracle does--existing installs will continue to run just as before, both physically and in licensing terms.  All that Oracle can do by nuking MySQL is close off a development path that's already been replicated elsewhere--in MariaDB, forked by Widenius and the other founders, as well as several other forks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks to the license under which the current version of MySQL was released , it does n't matter what Oracle does--existing installs will continue to run just as before , both physically and in licensing terms .
All that Oracle can do by nuking MySQL is close off a development path that 's already been replicated elsewhere--in MariaDB , forked by Widenius and the other founders , as well as several other forks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks to the license under which the current version of MySQL was released, it doesn't matter what Oracle does--existing installs will continue to run just as before, both physically and in licensing terms.
All that Oracle can do by nuking MySQL is close off a development path that's already been replicated elsewhere--in MariaDB, forked by Widenius and the other founders, as well as several other forks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423412</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423072</id>
	<title>No they have not.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260724860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And why would they.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And why would they .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And why would they.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30427946</id>
	<title>He wasn't the only shareholder!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260724980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>By the time everybody got their piece of Sun's beeellion dollars, Widenius apparently cleared about EUR 16 million - a very tidy sum, but much less than people seem to assume.</p><p>(I would have estimated he got even less than this, until I saw that figure a couple of days ago on his Wikipedia page.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>By the time everybody got their piece of Sun 's beeellion dollars , Widenius apparently cleared about EUR 16 million - a very tidy sum , but much less than people seem to assume .
( I would have estimated he got even less than this , until I saw that figure a couple of days ago on his Wikipedia page .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By the time everybody got their piece of Sun's beeellion dollars, Widenius apparently cleared about EUR 16 million - a very tidy sum, but much less than people seem to assume.
(I would have estimated he got even less than this, until I saw that figure a couple of days ago on his Wikipedia page.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423116</id>
	<title>There is no spoon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260725220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's strangely appropriate that Neo, when he went to see the Oracle to find out that he is The One, was also shown that the reality he was constantly presented with was simply a computer manipulation. This is why "there is no spoon" was such a critical piece of the Matrix puzzle. There may be no spoon, but there can still be a fork.</p><p>The Oracle told Neo that he wasn't The One, but the Oracle was lying and just telling him what he needed to hear. The One knows that there is a fork, even if the Oracle leads him astray.</p><p>Then there was a whole lot of crap about rogue agents in the system, but the whole movie was clearly an allegory about databases and the GPL.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's strangely appropriate that Neo , when he went to see the Oracle to find out that he is The One , was also shown that the reality he was constantly presented with was simply a computer manipulation .
This is why " there is no spoon " was such a critical piece of the Matrix puzzle .
There may be no spoon , but there can still be a fork.The Oracle told Neo that he was n't The One , but the Oracle was lying and just telling him what he needed to hear .
The One knows that there is a fork , even if the Oracle leads him astray.Then there was a whole lot of crap about rogue agents in the system , but the whole movie was clearly an allegory about databases and the GPL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's strangely appropriate that Neo, when he went to see the Oracle to find out that he is The One, was also shown that the reality he was constantly presented with was simply a computer manipulation.
This is why "there is no spoon" was such a critical piece of the Matrix puzzle.
There may be no spoon, but there can still be a fork.The Oracle told Neo that he wasn't The One, but the Oracle was lying and just telling him what he needed to hear.
The One knows that there is a fork, even if the Oracle leads him astray.Then there was a whole lot of crap about rogue agents in the system, but the whole movie was clearly an allegory about databases and the GPL.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424116</id>
	<title>Now I get it</title>
	<author>dnaumov</author>
	<datestamp>1260734340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the comments on his own damn blog (linked in the TFA), Monty let it slip that he isn't worried about Oracle making MySQL closed source (they CAN'T, or well they can, but anyone can fork and make his own version right now). He is worried about the lucrative business agreements between MySQL AB and business customers willing to pay for a customized version if MySQL for their business use. In other words, he wants a piece of that pie (which he would never get should MySQL AB end up in Oracle's hands). What a greedy prick.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the comments on his own damn blog ( linked in the TFA ) , Monty let it slip that he is n't worried about Oracle making MySQL closed source ( they CA N'T , or well they can , but anyone can fork and make his own version right now ) .
He is worried about the lucrative business agreements between MySQL AB and business customers willing to pay for a customized version if MySQL for their business use .
In other words , he wants a piece of that pie ( which he would never get should MySQL AB end up in Oracle 's hands ) .
What a greedy prick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the comments on his own damn blog (linked in the TFA), Monty let it slip that he isn't worried about Oracle making MySQL closed source (they CAN'T, or well they can, but anyone can fork and make his own version right now).
He is worried about the lucrative business agreements between MySQL AB and business customers willing to pay for a customized version if MySQL for their business use.
In other words, he wants a piece of that pie (which he would never get should MySQL AB end up in Oracle's hands).
What a greedy prick.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423288</id>
	<title>Re:Jeez what a whiner</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260726540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wrong - There are really two version of MySQL.  The open version and the closed version.  Monty cannot fork the closed version.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wrong - There are really two version of MySQL .
The open version and the closed version .
Monty can not fork the closed version .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wrong - There are really two version of MySQL.
The open version and the closed version.
Monty cannot fork the closed version.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423176</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30429938</id>
	<title>Oracle may be making concessions</title>
	<author>Get Behind the Mule</author>
	<datestamp>1260798900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oracle has announced a statement today making commitments concerning MySQL that may (or may not) address some of these concerns -- of both Widenius and the EU.</p><p><a href="http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Oracle-Corporation-NASDAQ-ORCL-1090000.html" title="marketwire.com">http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Oracle-Corporation-NASDAQ-ORCL-1090000.html</a> [marketwire.com]</p><p>These include:</p><p>* Continued Availability of Storage Engine APIs<br>* Commitment to enhance MySQL in the future under the GPL<br>* Support not mandatory<br>* Increase spending on MySQL research and development<br>* Continuing to maintain the MySQL Reference Manual<br>* Preserve Customer Choice for Support</p><p>And some other things about preserving the conditions of licenses currently held by storage vendors.</p><p>Healthy skepticism is of course always a good idea. On first reading, I can't tell how binding these commitments are (the statement says "Oracle hereby publicly commits to the following", and that's about it), and it doesn't exactly make Widenius' commitment to the timeliness of new releases and patches, except for the commitment to increase spending, which Oracle presumably would like to have result in new revenue.</p><p>But Oracle is evidently trying to address the EU's concerns in an effort to get the deal approved, and the EU might get them to make these commitments binding. The EU's initial reaction appears to be positive:</p><p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&amp;sid=a4SRxTHKHzTA&amp;pos=7" title="bloomberg.com">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&amp;sid=a4SRxTHKHzTA&amp;pos=7</a> [bloomberg.com] </p><blockquote><div><p>The European Commission said Oracle&rsquo;s proposal addresses concerns about the acquisition of Sun&rsquo;s MySQL database product, signaling the EU will approve the acquisition next month. European Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes said in a statement that she&rsquo;s &ldquo;optimistic that the case will have a satisfactory outcome.&rdquo;</p></div></blockquote><blockquote><div><p>&ldquo;Neelie Kroes has switched on the green traffic light,&rdquo; Charles van Sasse van Ysselt, a competition lawyer at NautaDutilh in Brussels, said in a telephone interview today. &ldquo;She is optimistic and this is a step in the right direction.&rdquo;</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oracle has announced a statement today making commitments concerning MySQL that may ( or may not ) address some of these concerns -- of both Widenius and the EU.http : //www.marketwire.com/press-release/Oracle-Corporation-NASDAQ-ORCL-1090000.html [ marketwire.com ] These include : * Continued Availability of Storage Engine APIs * Commitment to enhance MySQL in the future under the GPL * Support not mandatory * Increase spending on MySQL research and development * Continuing to maintain the MySQL Reference Manual * Preserve Customer Choice for SupportAnd some other things about preserving the conditions of licenses currently held by storage vendors.Healthy skepticism is of course always a good idea .
On first reading , I ca n't tell how binding these commitments are ( the statement says " Oracle hereby publicly commits to the following " , and that 's about it ) , and it does n't exactly make Widenius ' commitment to the timeliness of new releases and patches , except for the commitment to increase spending , which Oracle presumably would like to have result in new revenue.But Oracle is evidently trying to address the EU 's concerns in an effort to get the deal approved , and the EU might get them to make these commitments binding .
The EU 's initial reaction appears to be positive : http : //www.bloomberg.com/apps/news ? pid = 20601087&amp;sid = a4SRxTHKHzTA&amp;pos = 7 [ bloomberg.com ] The European Commission said Oracle    s proposal addresses concerns about the acquisition of Sun    s MySQL database product , signaling the EU will approve the acquisition next month .
European Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes said in a statement that she    s    optimistic that the case will have a satisfactory outcome.       Neelie Kroes has switched on the green traffic light ,    Charles van Sasse van Ysselt , a competition lawyer at NautaDutilh in Brussels , said in a telephone interview today .
   She is optimistic and this is a step in the right direction.   </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oracle has announced a statement today making commitments concerning MySQL that may (or may not) address some of these concerns -- of both Widenius and the EU.http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Oracle-Corporation-NASDAQ-ORCL-1090000.html [marketwire.com]These include:* Continued Availability of Storage Engine APIs* Commitment to enhance MySQL in the future under the GPL* Support not mandatory* Increase spending on MySQL research and development* Continuing to maintain the MySQL Reference Manual* Preserve Customer Choice for SupportAnd some other things about preserving the conditions of licenses currently held by storage vendors.Healthy skepticism is of course always a good idea.
On first reading, I can't tell how binding these commitments are (the statement says "Oracle hereby publicly commits to the following", and that's about it), and it doesn't exactly make Widenius' commitment to the timeliness of new releases and patches, except for the commitment to increase spending, which Oracle presumably would like to have result in new revenue.But Oracle is evidently trying to address the EU's concerns in an effort to get the deal approved, and the EU might get them to make these commitments binding.
The EU's initial reaction appears to be positive:http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&amp;sid=a4SRxTHKHzTA&amp;pos=7 [bloomberg.com] The European Commission said Oracle’s proposal addresses concerns about the acquisition of Sun’s MySQL database product, signaling the EU will approve the acquisition next month.
European Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes said in a statement that she’s “optimistic that the case will have a satisfactory outcome.”“Neelie Kroes has switched on the green traffic light,” Charles van Sasse van Ysselt, a competition lawyer at NautaDutilh in Brussels, said in a telephone interview today.
“She is optimistic and this is a step in the right direction.”
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424746</id>
	<title>Re:So fork the damn thing already!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260696660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I abandoned MySQL pretty much after I learned you had to use InnoDB for key constraints. MySQL sucks. It's the PHP of Databases. I'm glad Sun f**ked it over by buying it. God, I hate Sun.</p><p>Everyone let MySQL die and use PostgreSQL.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I abandoned MySQL pretty much after I learned you had to use InnoDB for key constraints .
MySQL sucks .
It 's the PHP of Databases .
I 'm glad Sun f * * ked it over by buying it .
God , I hate Sun.Everyone let MySQL die and use PostgreSQL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I abandoned MySQL pretty much after I learned you had to use InnoDB for key constraints.
MySQL sucks.
It's the PHP of Databases.
I'm glad Sun f**ked it over by buying it.
God, I hate Sun.Everyone let MySQL die and use PostgreSQL.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423354</id>
	<title>This really frustrates me...</title>
	<author>jregel</author>
	<datestamp>1260727200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As others in this discussion have pointed out, if the concern about Oracle close-sourcing components of MySQL, then why not fork it now?</p><p>Also, beyond the large installed user base, is there anything particularly important about MySQL as a database that other open source databases cannot do?</p><p>But for me, the biggest frustration is that while there is all this concern about MySQL, the lack of direction is really damaging Sun who make excellent servers (SPARC and x64), software (Solaris 10/Open Solaris with ZFS, Dtrace, Containers etc. etc, OpenOffice, Glassfish, Virtualbox, Sun Cluster (free), QFS/SAMFS (cluster FS)) and many more interesting technologies).</p><p>IMHO, the existence of Sun is a positive thing for the open source community and MySQL is a small and largely unimportant part of Sun's inventory.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As others in this discussion have pointed out , if the concern about Oracle close-sourcing components of MySQL , then why not fork it now ? Also , beyond the large installed user base , is there anything particularly important about MySQL as a database that other open source databases can not do ? But for me , the biggest frustration is that while there is all this concern about MySQL , the lack of direction is really damaging Sun who make excellent servers ( SPARC and x64 ) , software ( Solaris 10/Open Solaris with ZFS , Dtrace , Containers etc .
etc , OpenOffice , Glassfish , Virtualbox , Sun Cluster ( free ) , QFS/SAMFS ( cluster FS ) ) and many more interesting technologies ) .IMHO , the existence of Sun is a positive thing for the open source community and MySQL is a small and largely unimportant part of Sun 's inventory .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As others in this discussion have pointed out, if the concern about Oracle close-sourcing components of MySQL, then why not fork it now?Also, beyond the large installed user base, is there anything particularly important about MySQL as a database that other open source databases cannot do?But for me, the biggest frustration is that while there is all this concern about MySQL, the lack of direction is really damaging Sun who make excellent servers (SPARC and x64), software (Solaris 10/Open Solaris with ZFS, Dtrace, Containers etc.
etc, OpenOffice, Glassfish, Virtualbox, Sun Cluster (free), QFS/SAMFS (cluster FS)) and many more interesting technologies).IMHO, the existence of Sun is a positive thing for the open source community and MySQL is a small and largely unimportant part of Sun's inventory.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423558</id>
	<title>Background Info</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260729360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I encourage anyone who mistakes Monty for a friend of Open Source to do a little reading...</p><p><a href="http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/12/10/the-case-against-the-case-against-oracle-mysql/" title="the451group.com" rel="nofollow">The case against the case against Oracle-MySQL</a> [the451group.com]</p><p><a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505\_3-10412734-16.html" title="cnet.com" rel="nofollow">MySQL and a tale of two biases</a> [cnet.com]</p><p><a href="http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091208104422384" title="groklaw.net" rel="nofollow">Monty Program AB's Suggestion to EU Commission to Get Rid of the GPL on MySQL</a> [groklaw.net]</p><p><a href="http://kirkwylie.blogspot.com/2009/05/how-many-times-can-monty-sell-mysql.html" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">How Many Times Can Monty Sell MySQL?</a> [blogspot.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I encourage anyone who mistakes Monty for a friend of Open Source to do a little reading...The case against the case against Oracle-MySQL [ the451group.com ] MySQL and a tale of two biases [ cnet.com ] Monty Program AB 's Suggestion to EU Commission to Get Rid of the GPL on MySQL [ groklaw.net ] How Many Times Can Monty Sell MySQL ?
[ blogspot.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I encourage anyone who mistakes Monty for a friend of Open Source to do a little reading...The case against the case against Oracle-MySQL [the451group.com]MySQL and a tale of two biases [cnet.com]Monty Program AB's Suggestion to EU Commission to Get Rid of the GPL on MySQL [groklaw.net]How Many Times Can Monty Sell MySQL?
[blogspot.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30429786</id>
	<title>Andy Rooney</title>
	<author>OrangeCatholic</author>
	<datestamp>1260797280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>On 60 Minutes tonight, Andy Rooney did the richest 7 Americans.  On  number 3 he goes, "I have no idea who Lawrence Ellison is."
<br> <br>
Here's a tip, Andy.  Larry Ellison has no idea who YOU are.
<br> <br>
 Also, Steve Kroft looks like an alcoholic.  Nice try quizzing Obama on his agenda when you have a fifth of Jack hiding under the chair.  Douchebag.
<br> <br>
But anway, in the top 7 richest Americans, two were software (Microsoft and Oracle), one investor (Buffett), and I guess the other four were Walmart-related.  Kind of sad that Buffet couldn't beat out Gates but I suppose neither one is clubbing and wearing the latest fashions anyway.</htmltext>
<tokenext>On 60 Minutes tonight , Andy Rooney did the richest 7 Americans .
On number 3 he goes , " I have no idea who Lawrence Ellison is .
" Here 's a tip , Andy .
Larry Ellison has no idea who YOU are .
Also , Steve Kroft looks like an alcoholic .
Nice try quizzing Obama on his agenda when you have a fifth of Jack hiding under the chair .
Douchebag . But anway , in the top 7 richest Americans , two were software ( Microsoft and Oracle ) , one investor ( Buffett ) , and I guess the other four were Walmart-related .
Kind of sad that Buffet could n't beat out Gates but I suppose neither one is clubbing and wearing the latest fashions anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On 60 Minutes tonight, Andy Rooney did the richest 7 Americans.
On  number 3 he goes, "I have no idea who Lawrence Ellison is.
"
 
Here's a tip, Andy.
Larry Ellison has no idea who YOU are.
Also, Steve Kroft looks like an alcoholic.
Nice try quizzing Obama on his agenda when you have a fifth of Jack hiding under the chair.
Douchebag.
 
But anway, in the top 7 richest Americans, two were software (Microsoft and Oracle), one investor (Buffett), and I guess the other four were Walmart-related.
Kind of sad that Buffet couldn't beat out Gates but I suppose neither one is clubbing and wearing the latest fashions anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426340</id>
	<title>Re:Jeez what a whiner</title>
	<author>Genda</author>
	<datestamp>1260709320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm just glad Monty didn't own Python... and now for something completely different...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm just glad Monty did n't own Python... and now for something completely different.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm just glad Monty didn't own Python... and now for something completely different...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423176</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423124</id>
	<title>Oh who cares...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260725220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fork it and rename it.  These guys are more interested in "their" brand than the actual code.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fork it and rename it .
These guys are more interested in " their " brand than the actual code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fork it and rename it.
These guys are more interested in "their" brand than the actual code.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423412</id>
	<title>The case should be made to government</title>
	<author>erroneus</author>
	<datestamp>1260727800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the U.S. and in Europe, there are regulatory bodies that need to be aware of this potentially serious problem.  MySQL is a component of a huge and significant portion of the internet web sites today.  What Oracle decides to do with MySQL could have huge and sweeping affect across the entire web economy.</p><p>In the interests of preventing any potential large-scale destabilization, MySQL should be forced to spin off into an independent entity prior to the acquisition of Sun.  Not only are there competitive interests at play, but a significant component of the internet as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the U.S. and in Europe , there are regulatory bodies that need to be aware of this potentially serious problem .
MySQL is a component of a huge and significant portion of the internet web sites today .
What Oracle decides to do with MySQL could have huge and sweeping affect across the entire web economy.In the interests of preventing any potential large-scale destabilization , MySQL should be forced to spin off into an independent entity prior to the acquisition of Sun .
Not only are there competitive interests at play , but a significant component of the internet as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the U.S. and in Europe, there are regulatory bodies that need to be aware of this potentially serious problem.
MySQL is a component of a huge and significant portion of the internet web sites today.
What Oracle decides to do with MySQL could have huge and sweeping affect across the entire web economy.In the interests of preventing any potential large-scale destabilization, MySQL should be forced to spin off into an independent entity prior to the acquisition of Sun.
Not only are there competitive interests at play, but a significant component of the internet as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423498</id>
	<title>Re:There is no spoon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260728760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Far out.  That some deep profound shit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Far out .
That some deep profound shit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Far out.
That some deep profound shit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423116</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423474</id>
	<title>like a millionaire/walking on imported air...</title>
	<author>tyroneking</author>
	<datestamp>1260728460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Much like the line in the song Maria by Blondie, Widenius is blowing hard about something he sold for lots of cash - and the same time he himself has forked MySQL into MariaDB (see what I did there?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) so he has answered the problem in the way many of you have already suggested.<br>No point being down on Oracle btw, they may be a big freaking software company and on that basis alone deserve to be hated, but they did buy a product I am cursed to work with and they have made such improvements in access to knowledge and the software itself I cannot help think that they are not all bad (OK - I know, they ARE bad, but one can dream<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)<br>What I don't think is that anyone will seriously form MySQL because most people cannot be bothered when there's Postgres (which we all want to be the winner in the mythic and yet totally uneomotional struggle between MySQL and Postgres - wierd, because the struggle between Ruby and Python is so much more emotional but so much less important<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...)<br>Honestly though, as soon as we all dump RDBMS and go for lovely object based databases like Durus the happier I will be<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Much like the line in the song Maria by Blondie , Widenius is blowing hard about something he sold for lots of cash - and the same time he himself has forked MySQL into MariaDB ( see what I did there ?
; ) so he has answered the problem in the way many of you have already suggested.No point being down on Oracle btw , they may be a big freaking software company and on that basis alone deserve to be hated , but they did buy a product I am cursed to work with and they have made such improvements in access to knowledge and the software itself I can not help think that they are not all bad ( OK - I know , they ARE bad , but one can dream : ) What I do n't think is that anyone will seriously form MySQL because most people can not be bothered when there 's Postgres ( which we all want to be the winner in the mythic and yet totally uneomotional struggle between MySQL and Postgres - wierd , because the struggle between Ruby and Python is so much more emotional but so much less important ... ) Honestly though , as soon as we all dump RDBMS and go for lovely object based databases like Durus the happier I will be .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Much like the line in the song Maria by Blondie, Widenius is blowing hard about something he sold for lots of cash - and the same time he himself has forked MySQL into MariaDB (see what I did there?
;) so he has answered the problem in the way many of you have already suggested.No point being down on Oracle btw, they may be a big freaking software company and on that basis alone deserve to be hated, but they did buy a product I am cursed to work with and they have made such improvements in access to knowledge and the software itself I cannot help think that they are not all bad (OK - I know, they ARE bad, but one can dream :)What I don't think is that anyone will seriously form MySQL because most people cannot be bothered when there's Postgres (which we all want to be the winner in the mythic and yet totally uneomotional struggle between MySQL and Postgres - wierd, because the struggle between Ruby and Python is so much more emotional but so much less important ...)Honestly though, as soon as we all dump RDBMS and go for lovely object based databases like Durus the happier I will be ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424646</id>
	<title>Re:Would not be a loss</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260695640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Man, you postgresql fanboys must have been Betavision owners back in the day. Going down kicking and screaming, crying about how inferior VHS is while its market share explodes amidst the festering carcass of Beta..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Man , you postgresql fanboys must have been Betavision owners back in the day .
Going down kicking and screaming , crying about how inferior VHS is while its market share explodes amidst the festering carcass of Beta. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Man, you postgresql fanboys must have been Betavision owners back in the day.
Going down kicking and screaming, crying about how inferior VHS is while its market share explodes amidst the festering carcass of Beta..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423664</id>
	<title>MySQL was never truly open source</title>
	<author>jocknerd</author>
	<datestamp>1260730260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As long as there was a company behind it, there was always potential that it could be bought. Switch to PostgreSQL. Nobody owns it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As long as there was a company behind it , there was always potential that it could be bought .
Switch to PostgreSQL .
Nobody owns it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As long as there was a company behind it, there was always potential that it could be bought.
Switch to PostgreSQL.
Nobody owns it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423768</id>
	<title>MySQL foundation</title>
	<author>shentino</author>
	<datestamp>1260731100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unless the EC is just hell-bent on obstructing US commerce then Oracle and Sun should just make an agreement to fork MySQL off into a foundation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless the EC is just hell-bent on obstructing US commerce then Oracle and Sun should just make an agreement to fork MySQL off into a foundation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless the EC is just hell-bent on obstructing US commerce then Oracle and Sun should just make an agreement to fork MySQL off into a foundation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30427238</id>
	<title>About time someone scared the sheep off MySQL</title>
	<author>melted</author>
	<datestamp>1260717180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the world where PostgreSQL also costs $0, I can fathom no reason why anyone would want to use the glorified hashtable that is MySQL.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the world where PostgreSQL also costs $ 0 , I can fathom no reason why anyone would want to use the glorified hashtable that is MySQL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the world where PostgreSQL also costs $0, I can fathom no reason why anyone would want to use the glorified hashtable that is MySQL.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426296</id>
	<title>This is a simple problem to address...</title>
	<author>Genda</author>
	<datestamp>1260708840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This barely even rates as a problem. Folks, let's just take out a little simple insurance and remove and operational benefit to messing with MySQL. The MySQL community has the right to copy the MySQL public open source, to a new project branch called OurSQL. This branch continues to receive updates from new versions of MySQL as long as MySQL remains public, and open source. The day Oracle chooses to do anything with MySQL that renders it Closed Source, Crippled, or in any way a Business/Political Pawn to be used against Oracle's competitors, everyone jumps to the OurSQL project and en masse thumb our collective noses at Oracle.</p><p>Let Oracle know there is absolutely no value to messing with MySQL, and if they try, will only end up the proud owners of a dead project branch. This protects the autonomy of MySQL, and allows Oracle to intelligently steer the future of MySQL. It also allows those who require that MySQL have a meaningful future as a robust open source product, the certainty that nobody can screw with their future (or at least that it would be most difficult to screw with it.)</p><p>I have all the room in the world for Oracle to be whatever kind of for profit, capitalistic, corporation they want to be. I just figure if they might even be slightly inclined to mess with my freedom, or preference, and I have some say in the matter now, I'd be an idiot not to cover my behind while the covering was both legal, and reasonably simple.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This barely even rates as a problem .
Folks , let 's just take out a little simple insurance and remove and operational benefit to messing with MySQL .
The MySQL community has the right to copy the MySQL public open source , to a new project branch called OurSQL .
This branch continues to receive updates from new versions of MySQL as long as MySQL remains public , and open source .
The day Oracle chooses to do anything with MySQL that renders it Closed Source , Crippled , or in any way a Business/Political Pawn to be used against Oracle 's competitors , everyone jumps to the OurSQL project and en masse thumb our collective noses at Oracle.Let Oracle know there is absolutely no value to messing with MySQL , and if they try , will only end up the proud owners of a dead project branch .
This protects the autonomy of MySQL , and allows Oracle to intelligently steer the future of MySQL .
It also allows those who require that MySQL have a meaningful future as a robust open source product , the certainty that nobody can screw with their future ( or at least that it would be most difficult to screw with it .
) I have all the room in the world for Oracle to be whatever kind of for profit , capitalistic , corporation they want to be .
I just figure if they might even be slightly inclined to mess with my freedom , or preference , and I have some say in the matter now , I 'd be an idiot not to cover my behind while the covering was both legal , and reasonably simple .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This barely even rates as a problem.
Folks, let's just take out a little simple insurance and remove and operational benefit to messing with MySQL.
The MySQL community has the right to copy the MySQL public open source, to a new project branch called OurSQL.
This branch continues to receive updates from new versions of MySQL as long as MySQL remains public, and open source.
The day Oracle chooses to do anything with MySQL that renders it Closed Source, Crippled, or in any way a Business/Political Pawn to be used against Oracle's competitors, everyone jumps to the OurSQL project and en masse thumb our collective noses at Oracle.Let Oracle know there is absolutely no value to messing with MySQL, and if they try, will only end up the proud owners of a dead project branch.
This protects the autonomy of MySQL, and allows Oracle to intelligently steer the future of MySQL.
It also allows those who require that MySQL have a meaningful future as a robust open source product, the certainty that nobody can screw with their future (or at least that it would be most difficult to screw with it.
)I have all the room in the world for Oracle to be whatever kind of for profit, capitalistic, corporation they want to be.
I just figure if they might even be slightly inclined to mess with my freedom, or preference, and I have some say in the matter now, I'd be an idiot not to cover my behind while the covering was both legal, and reasonably simple.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424062</id>
	<title>another point</title>
	<author>larry bagina</author>
	<datestamp>1260733800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oracle bought sleepycat and owns BDB.  Any license changes?  Bueller?  Bueller?.  Oh, and oracle is also sponsoring  btrfs development.  Which is GPL.
<p>
MySQL is  a shit database. If oracle tries to crush it, they'll end up with shit splattered everywhere and a stinky hand.  It's 100\% forkable, and 95\% pointless.
Postgres, SQLite, and "no-sql" datastores do a better job for most scenarios.  And if you're running a PHP-4 script that needs MySQL 4, it doesn't matter
who owns mysql.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oracle bought sleepycat and owns BDB .
Any license changes ?
Bueller ? Bueller ? .
Oh , and oracle is also sponsoring btrfs development .
Which is GPL .
MySQL is a shit database .
If oracle tries to crush it , they 'll end up with shit splattered everywhere and a stinky hand .
It 's 100 \ % forkable , and 95 \ % pointless .
Postgres , SQLite , and " no-sql " datastores do a better job for most scenarios .
And if you 're running a PHP-4 script that needs MySQL 4 , it does n't matter who owns mysql .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oracle bought sleepycat and owns BDB.
Any license changes?
Bueller?  Bueller?.
Oh, and oracle is also sponsoring  btrfs development.
Which is GPL.
MySQL is  a shit database.
If oracle tries to crush it, they'll end up with shit splattered everywhere and a stinky hand.
It's 100\% forkable, and 95\% pointless.
Postgres, SQLite, and "no-sql" datastores do a better job for most scenarios.
And if you're running a PHP-4 script that needs MySQL 4, it doesn't matter
who owns mysql.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423366</id>
	<title>first they'll change the name...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260727260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>HisSQL.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>HisSQL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>HisSQL.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423420</id>
	<title>MySQL Founders please stop whining</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260727920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously, these MySQL founders have been whining ever since they sold out to Sun.<br>Please stop. If you're worried about MySQL why did you sell the rights in the first place?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , these MySQL founders have been whining ever since they sold out to Sun.Please stop .
If you 're worried about MySQL why did you sell the rights in the first place ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, these MySQL founders have been whining ever since they sold out to Sun.Please stop.
If you're worried about MySQL why did you sell the rights in the first place?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426286</id>
	<title>But BOTH licenses own the FULL right of EVERYTHING</title>
	<author>kandresen</author>
	<datestamp>1260708720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Notice that there is a DUAL license of MySQL. Whatever EVERYBODY have contributed to MySQL are not squarely GPL but are also the full property of whoever owns the Commercial license.<br>This mean that Oracle after buying MySQL can take EVERY technology incorporated into MySQL and mix it with Oracle, then leave the project either dead, or simply maintaining it is as bait. If you contribute to MySQL from that point on, you know you are giving away whatever you do to Oracle... In other words. MySQL is dead as soon as Oracle owns the MySQL. GPL only keeps the leftovers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Notice that there is a DUAL license of MySQL .
Whatever EVERYBODY have contributed to MySQL are not squarely GPL but are also the full property of whoever owns the Commercial license.This mean that Oracle after buying MySQL can take EVERY technology incorporated into MySQL and mix it with Oracle , then leave the project either dead , or simply maintaining it is as bait .
If you contribute to MySQL from that point on , you know you are giving away whatever you do to Oracle... In other words .
MySQL is dead as soon as Oracle owns the MySQL .
GPL only keeps the leftovers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Notice that there is a DUAL license of MySQL.
Whatever EVERYBODY have contributed to MySQL are not squarely GPL but are also the full property of whoever owns the Commercial license.This mean that Oracle after buying MySQL can take EVERY technology incorporated into MySQL and mix it with Oracle, then leave the project either dead, or simply maintaining it is as bait.
If you contribute to MySQL from that point on, you know you are giving away whatever you do to Oracle... In other words.
MySQL is dead as soon as Oracle owns the MySQL.
GPL only keeps the leftovers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423154</id>
	<title>Shoulda said it sooner!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260725400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Widenius tell us sooner?!?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Widenius tell us sooner ? !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Widenius tell us sooner?!
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30427742</id>
	<title>Re:So fork the damn thing already!</title>
	<author>TemporalBeing</author>
	<datestamp>1260722820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>That's one of the reasons we have open source licenses.  So we can fork if we have to.</p></div><p>He did already - it's called MariaDB. He just doesn't like the fact that his fork has to be GPL only - he can't integrate any commercial code like he did when he owned MySQL AB. I don't think I can put it any better here than I did at Groklaw (see <a href="http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&amp;sid=20091208104422384&amp;title=Funny\%20thing\%20is...&amp;type=article&amp;order=&amp;hideanonymous=0&amp;pid=0#c806354" title="groklaw.net">this comment</a> [groklaw.net]. Basically:
</p><ul>
 <li>Monty made MySQL; licensed it under a dual license (GPL + MySQL Commercial License)</li><li>dual license structure worked well for MySQL AB - prevented commercial competitors, fostered community around GPL version</li><li>Monty sold MySQL AB to Sun for $1B without changing the license. No compliants; he worked for Sun.</li><li>Sun seems to be under the gun and going to get sold off - Monty quits, tries to fork MySQL as MariaDB. Wants to build a new "MySQL AB" under another name; but the dual license prevents it.</li><li>See opportunity to force Sun to change the license so he can keep his money from the sale, while still getting all the code, possibly also the commercial code, and redo MySQL AB</li><li>Monty's looking to do a "rinse-repeat".</li></ul><p>

Monty just doesn't like the hand that he dealt himself - one he had every opportunity to change while he owned MySQL AB, probably even would have been able to influence while he was a Sun Employee too; but never complained (that we know of while he was at Sun) and never did (when he had the chance himself - he could of done it as part of the sale to Sun).
<br> <br>
Yeah - he could just setup a services-oriented company around MySQL; but he doesn't want that - he wants his MySQL back, as well as the money he took from Sun. It's all about his wallet; nothing else.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's one of the reasons we have open source licenses .
So we can fork if we have to.He did already - it 's called MariaDB .
He just does n't like the fact that his fork has to be GPL only - he ca n't integrate any commercial code like he did when he owned MySQL AB .
I do n't think I can put it any better here than I did at Groklaw ( see this comment [ groklaw.net ] .
Basically : Monty made MySQL ; licensed it under a dual license ( GPL + MySQL Commercial License ) dual license structure worked well for MySQL AB - prevented commercial competitors , fostered community around GPL versionMonty sold MySQL AB to Sun for $ 1B without changing the license .
No compliants ; he worked for Sun.Sun seems to be under the gun and going to get sold off - Monty quits , tries to fork MySQL as MariaDB .
Wants to build a new " MySQL AB " under another name ; but the dual license prevents it.See opportunity to force Sun to change the license so he can keep his money from the sale , while still getting all the code , possibly also the commercial code , and redo MySQL ABMonty 's looking to do a " rinse-repeat " .
Monty just does n't like the hand that he dealt himself - one he had every opportunity to change while he owned MySQL AB , probably even would have been able to influence while he was a Sun Employee too ; but never complained ( that we know of while he was at Sun ) and never did ( when he had the chance himself - he could of done it as part of the sale to Sun ) .
Yeah - he could just setup a services-oriented company around MySQL ; but he does n't want that - he wants his MySQL back , as well as the money he took from Sun .
It 's all about his wallet ; nothing else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's one of the reasons we have open source licenses.
So we can fork if we have to.He did already - it's called MariaDB.
He just doesn't like the fact that his fork has to be GPL only - he can't integrate any commercial code like he did when he owned MySQL AB.
I don't think I can put it any better here than I did at Groklaw (see this comment [groklaw.net].
Basically:

 Monty made MySQL; licensed it under a dual license (GPL + MySQL Commercial License)dual license structure worked well for MySQL AB - prevented commercial competitors, fostered community around GPL versionMonty sold MySQL AB to Sun for $1B without changing the license.
No compliants; he worked for Sun.Sun seems to be under the gun and going to get sold off - Monty quits, tries to fork MySQL as MariaDB.
Wants to build a new "MySQL AB" under another name; but the dual license prevents it.See opportunity to force Sun to change the license so he can keep his money from the sale, while still getting all the code, possibly also the commercial code, and redo MySQL ABMonty's looking to do a "rinse-repeat".
Monty just doesn't like the hand that he dealt himself - one he had every opportunity to change while he owned MySQL AB, probably even would have been able to influence while he was a Sun Employee too; but never complained (that we know of while he was at Sun) and never did (when he had the chance himself - he could of done it as part of the sale to Sun).
Yeah - he could just setup a services-oriented company around MySQL; but he doesn't want that - he wants his MySQL back, as well as the money he took from Sun.
It's all about his wallet; nothing else.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423912</id>
	<title>Re:Monty Needs to STFU</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260732300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't he sell mysql to Sun way before there was even the slightest hint of an acquisition by Oracle? In fact, i don't think anybody even saw the Oracle-Sun deal coming.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Correct me if i 'm wrong , but did n't he sell mysql to Sun way before there was even the slightest hint of an acquisition by Oracle ?
In fact , i do n't think anybody even saw the Oracle-Sun deal coming .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't he sell mysql to Sun way before there was even the slightest hint of an acquisition by Oracle?
In fact, i don't think anybody even saw the Oracle-Sun deal coming.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424486</id>
	<title>Re:You guys are missing the point!</title>
	<author>dclozier</author>
	<datestamp>1260737520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wish the parent could be modded higher - Widenius is a hypocrite and does not give a rat's ass about MySQL. He simply wants it under a closed source friendly license so he can build another business around everyone else's hard work that is in MySQL. Widenius has complained that the GPL prevents other companies from competing. This simply isn't true. PJ at Groklaw sheds the light on this rather well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wish the parent could be modded higher - Widenius is a hypocrite and does not give a rat 's ass about MySQL .
He simply wants it under a closed source friendly license so he can build another business around everyone else 's hard work that is in MySQL .
Widenius has complained that the GPL prevents other companies from competing .
This simply is n't true .
PJ at Groklaw sheds the light on this rather well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wish the parent could be modded higher - Widenius is a hypocrite and does not give a rat's ass about MySQL.
He simply wants it under a closed source friendly license so he can build another business around everyone else's hard work that is in MySQL.
Widenius has complained that the GPL prevents other companies from competing.
This simply isn't true.
PJ at Groklaw sheds the light on this rather well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423970</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424746
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424318
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423354
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426234
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_41</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424194
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423116
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_40</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30427946
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423098
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30427742
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30428420
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423536
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423412
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_32</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423292
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423288
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423176
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426122
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423674
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424646
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30429744
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426436
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423374
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423176
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423972
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423116
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424218
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_35</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425568
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423176
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424350
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423652
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426772
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423354
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424486
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423222
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30428128
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423116
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426340
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423176
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_38</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423244
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_33</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425614
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426404
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423222
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423506
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423176
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426286
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423222
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423142
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30430940
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423222
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30428824
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30433756
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423354
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424158
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425664
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423912
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423164
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423498
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423116
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425900
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423838
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_37</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426142
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423222
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424426
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423222
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_39</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423766
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423096
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_42</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426306
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423652
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_13_1530211_16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425792
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423836
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423768
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425644
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424542
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423124
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423176
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423288
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423374
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425568
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423506
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426340
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423072
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423420
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423086
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30429744
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424746
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423652
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426306
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424350
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423244
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423142
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423292
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426436
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30427742
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423098
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30427946
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423470
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424226
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423164
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423912
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425664
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423096
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423766
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423664
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423412
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423536
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423222
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423970
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424486
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426142
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426286
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30430940
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424426
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426404
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423118
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423926
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423644
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424022
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423354
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30433756
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424318
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426772
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423116
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30428128
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424194
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423498
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423972
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423648
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423144
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_12_13_1530211.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423582
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425792
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30428824
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426234
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30428420
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423838
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424646
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30426122
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425614
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30425900
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424218
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30424158
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_13_1530211.30423674
</commentlist>
</conversation>
