<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_10_0559235</id>
	<title>Treading the Fuzzy Line Between Game Cloning and Theft</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1260444240000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>eldavojohn writes <i>"Ars <a href="http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/12/cloning-or-theft-ars-explores-game-design-with-jenova-chen.ars">analyzes some knockoffs and near-knockoffs in the gaming world</a> that led to problems with the original developers.  Jenova Chen, creator of <em>Flower</em> and <em>flOw</em>, discusses how he feels about the clones made of his games.  Chen reveals his true feelings about the takedown of <em>Aquatica</em> (a <em>flOw</em> knockoff): 'What bothers me the most is that because of my own overreaction, I might have created a lot of inconvenience to the creator of <em>Aquatica</em> and interrupted his game-making.  He is clearly talented, and certainly a fan of <em>flOw</em>. I hope he can continue creating video games, but with his own design.'  The article also notes the apparent similarities between Zynga's <em>Cafe World</em> and Playfish's <em>Restaurant City</em> (the two most popular Facebook games).  Is that cloning or theft?  Should clones be welcomed or abhorred?"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>eldavojohn writes " Ars analyzes some knockoffs and near-knockoffs in the gaming world that led to problems with the original developers .
Jenova Chen , creator of Flower and flOw , discusses how he feels about the clones made of his games .
Chen reveals his true feelings about the takedown of Aquatica ( a flOw knockoff ) : 'What bothers me the most is that because of my own overreaction , I might have created a lot of inconvenience to the creator of Aquatica and interrupted his game-making .
He is clearly talented , and certainly a fan of flOw .
I hope he can continue creating video games , but with his own design .
' The article also notes the apparent similarities between Zynga 's Cafe World and Playfish 's Restaurant City ( the two most popular Facebook games ) .
Is that cloning or theft ?
Should clones be welcomed or abhorred ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>eldavojohn writes "Ars analyzes some knockoffs and near-knockoffs in the gaming world that led to problems with the original developers.
Jenova Chen, creator of Flower and flOw, discusses how he feels about the clones made of his games.
Chen reveals his true feelings about the takedown of Aquatica (a flOw knockoff): 'What bothers me the most is that because of my own overreaction, I might have created a lot of inconvenience to the creator of Aquatica and interrupted his game-making.
He is clearly talented, and certainly a fan of flOw.
I hope he can continue creating video games, but with his own design.
'  The article also notes the apparent similarities between Zynga's Cafe World and Playfish's Restaurant City (the two most popular Facebook games).
Is that cloning or theft?
Should clones be welcomed or abhorred?
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30396040</id>
	<title>Re:Laser Squad and X-Com</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1260446580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Stealing someone's setting completely, the setting and storyline, the code, the graphics, the music: those are all bad ideas. However, taking a broad concept such as turn-based, squad tactical combat and refining it with a great setting and story, that just benefits all gamers.</p></div><p>Laser Squad was designed by Julian Gollop.</p><p>X-COM: UFO Defense (aka UFO: Enemy Unknown) was designed by<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Julian Gollop.</p><p>You can't plagiarize or steal from yourself.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Stealing someone 's setting completely , the setting and storyline , the code , the graphics , the music : those are all bad ideas .
However , taking a broad concept such as turn-based , squad tactical combat and refining it with a great setting and story , that just benefits all gamers.Laser Squad was designed by Julian Gollop.X-COM : UFO Defense ( aka UFO : Enemy Unknown ) was designed by ... Julian Gollop.You ca n't plagiarize or steal from yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stealing someone's setting completely, the setting and storyline, the code, the graphics, the music: those are all bad ideas.
However, taking a broad concept such as turn-based, squad tactical combat and refining it with a great setting and story, that just benefits all gamers.Laser Squad was designed by Julian Gollop.X-COM: UFO Defense (aka UFO: Enemy Unknown) was designed by ... Julian Gollop.You can't plagiarize or steal from yourself.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30389634</id>
	<title>Re:Warcraft</title>
	<author>MattSausage</author>
	<datestamp>1260466800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I believe <a href="http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/4/10/" title="penny-arcade.com" rel="nofollow">Penny Arcade</a> [penny-arcade.com] had something to say about this very topic.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe Penny Arcade [ penny-arcade.com ] had something to say about this very topic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe Penny Arcade [penny-arcade.com] had something to say about this very topic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386662</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387454</id>
	<title>Copycat as a business model?</title>
	<author>garg0yle</author>
	<datestamp>1260456780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They mention Zynga for Cafe World, but some of their other products (I'm looking at YOU, Farmville) also seem very similar to competitors' products (Farm Town, anyone?).  Their latest, PetVille, seems awfully derivative of Pet Society by Playfish, for example.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They mention Zynga for Cafe World , but some of their other products ( I 'm looking at YOU , Farmville ) also seem very similar to competitors ' products ( Farm Town , anyone ? ) .
Their latest , PetVille , seems awfully derivative of Pet Society by Playfish , for example .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They mention Zynga for Cafe World, but some of their other products (I'm looking at YOU, Farmville) also seem very similar to competitors' products (Farm Town, anyone?).
Their latest, PetVille, seems awfully derivative of Pet Society by Playfish, for example.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387836</id>
	<title>Re:Clones should be abhorred</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1260459240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The reason is that no clone brings any innovation or evolution.</p> </div><p>That's totally false. Canonical example: <a href="http://www.pineight.com/tod/" title="pineight.com">Tetanus On Drugs</a> [pineight.com].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason is that no clone brings any innovation or evolution .
That 's totally false .
Canonical example : Tetanus On Drugs [ pineight.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason is that no clone brings any innovation or evolution.
That's totally false.
Canonical example: Tetanus On Drugs [pineight.com].
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387902</id>
	<title>Laser Squad and X-Com</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260459600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm fairly certain that anyone who played and enjoyed both will vouch for the obvious influence the former had on the latter.  I loved them both and if X-Com hadn't taken much of its ideas from Squad, then I wouldn't have gotten to enjoy such a great game.  Settings and graphics were changed, but the core - squad based tactical combat, focused on individual units in a small team using turns, opportunity attacks and movement points - remained the same.</p><p>Stealing someone's setting completely, the setting and storyline, the code, the graphics, the music: those are all bad ideas.  However, taking a broad concept such as turn-based, squad tactical combat and refining it with a great setting and story, that just benefits all gamers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm fairly certain that anyone who played and enjoyed both will vouch for the obvious influence the former had on the latter .
I loved them both and if X-Com had n't taken much of its ideas from Squad , then I would n't have gotten to enjoy such a great game .
Settings and graphics were changed , but the core - squad based tactical combat , focused on individual units in a small team using turns , opportunity attacks and movement points - remained the same.Stealing someone 's setting completely , the setting and storyline , the code , the graphics , the music : those are all bad ideas .
However , taking a broad concept such as turn-based , squad tactical combat and refining it with a great setting and story , that just benefits all gamers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm fairly certain that anyone who played and enjoyed both will vouch for the obvious influence the former had on the latter.
I loved them both and if X-Com hadn't taken much of its ideas from Squad, then I wouldn't have gotten to enjoy such a great game.
Settings and graphics were changed, but the core - squad based tactical combat, focused on individual units in a small team using turns, opportunity attacks and movement points - remained the same.Stealing someone's setting completely, the setting and storyline, the code, the graphics, the music: those are all bad ideas.
However, taking a broad concept such as turn-based, squad tactical combat and refining it with a great setting and story, that just benefits all gamers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30390692</id>
	<title>Re:Clones should be welcomed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260470040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What if you're great at having original ideas, but your implementation is not quite up to the standard of the cloners. (Say you're 50\% slower at implementation than those who specialize in implementation.) Basically the cloners will do circles around you, making a more quickly implemented, uncreatively better version of your idea.  You won't make the big rewards, and you'll then have a disincentive to continue along the vein of creating ideas.  So you stop doing that in order to feed your family.</p><p>So everyone loses, because a creative individual left the field.  Competition isn't always good to maximize at the expense of everything else.  (But please, don't take me to mean that unending protection is needed; I'm just sure that absolutely no protection is not in "everyone's" interest.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What if you 're great at having original ideas , but your implementation is not quite up to the standard of the cloners .
( Say you 're 50 \ % slower at implementation than those who specialize in implementation .
) Basically the cloners will do circles around you , making a more quickly implemented , uncreatively better version of your idea .
You wo n't make the big rewards , and you 'll then have a disincentive to continue along the vein of creating ideas .
So you stop doing that in order to feed your family.So everyone loses , because a creative individual left the field .
Competition is n't always good to maximize at the expense of everything else .
( But please , do n't take me to mean that unending protection is needed ; I 'm just sure that absolutely no protection is not in " everyone 's " interest .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if you're great at having original ideas, but your implementation is not quite up to the standard of the cloners.
(Say you're 50\% slower at implementation than those who specialize in implementation.
) Basically the cloners will do circles around you, making a more quickly implemented, uncreatively better version of your idea.
You won't make the big rewards, and you'll then have a disincentive to continue along the vein of creating ideas.
So you stop doing that in order to feed your family.So everyone loses, because a creative individual left the field.
Competition isn't always good to maximize at the expense of everything else.
(But please, don't take me to mean that unending protection is needed; I'm just sure that absolutely no protection is not in "everyone's" interest.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30391940</id>
	<title>Re:Glass houses and all</title>
	<author>grumbel</author>
	<datestamp>1260474180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The guy that wrote flOw was part of the Spore team.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The guy that wrote flOw was part of the Spore team .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The guy that wrote flOw was part of the Spore team.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386648</id>
	<title>Wonic the Hedgehog</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260448920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Totally not cloned.</p><p>Collect 7 magic crystals and save Princess Tobotnik.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Totally not cloned.Collect 7 magic crystals and save Princess Tobotnik .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Totally not cloned.Collect 7 magic crystals and save Princess Tobotnik.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386770</id>
	<title>"Theft" is a poor word here.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260450600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is imposible to make videogames on "The void", so all games have ideas from all other games. From the menu system, the way to reward or inform the player, to how to store the textures/extra files, how to distribute, how to sells, develop and some share code, but most share ideas, all share ideas.  And the first one, was a "tennis" like clone.</p><p>Also, even the worst games ( PACMAN clones ) try to add something to the table.</p><p>We don't say that Warcraft 3 is a clone of dune 2, or thief, we say Warcraft 3 is a RTS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is imposible to make videogames on " The void " , so all games have ideas from all other games .
From the menu system , the way to reward or inform the player , to how to store the textures/extra files , how to distribute , how to sells , develop and some share code , but most share ideas , all share ideas .
And the first one , was a " tennis " like clone.Also , even the worst games ( PACMAN clones ) try to add something to the table.We do n't say that Warcraft 3 is a clone of dune 2 , or thief , we say Warcraft 3 is a RTS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is imposible to make videogames on "The void", so all games have ideas from all other games.
From the menu system, the way to reward or inform the player, to how to store the textures/extra files, how to distribute, how to sells, develop and some share code, but most share ideas, all share ideas.
And the first one, was a "tennis" like clone.Also, even the worst games ( PACMAN clones ) try to add something to the table.We don't say that Warcraft 3 is a clone of dune 2, or thief, we say Warcraft 3 is a RTS.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30389012</id>
	<title>Re:Sometimes clones surpass the original</title>
	<author>ukyoCE</author>
	<datestamp>1260464880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, Starcraft is a clone (incremental improvement really) of Warcraft.  Space archetypes are a tiny part of Starcraft and what made it popular and successful.</p><p>Unless you're claiming there was a Warhammer 40k RTS game with similar gameplay mechanics, online play, maps, etc?  Or do you really consider "humans bugs and greys" to be enough commonality to call two completely different games "clones"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , Starcraft is a clone ( incremental improvement really ) of Warcraft .
Space archetypes are a tiny part of Starcraft and what made it popular and successful.Unless you 're claiming there was a Warhammer 40k RTS game with similar gameplay mechanics , online play , maps , etc ?
Or do you really consider " humans bugs and greys " to be enough commonality to call two completely different games " clones " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, Starcraft is a clone (incremental improvement really) of Warcraft.
Space archetypes are a tiny part of Starcraft and what made it popular and successful.Unless you're claiming there was a Warhammer 40k RTS game with similar gameplay mechanics, online play, maps, etc?
Or do you really consider "humans bugs and greys" to be enough commonality to call two completely different games "clones"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386750</id>
	<title>most popular facebook games</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260450360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>"The article also notes the apparent similarities between Zynga's Cafe World and Playfish's Restaurant City (the two most popular Facebook games)."
<p>Wow, did <a href="http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/12/06/1633229/Farmville-Social-Gaming-and-Addiction" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">Farmville</a> [slashdot.org] become 3rd place in only 4 days?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The article also notes the apparent similarities between Zynga 's Cafe World and Playfish 's Restaurant City ( the two most popular Facebook games ) .
" Wow , did Farmville [ slashdot.org ] become 3rd place in only 4 days ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The article also notes the apparent similarities between Zynga's Cafe World and Playfish's Restaurant City (the two most popular Facebook games).
"
Wow, did Farmville [slashdot.org] become 3rd place in only 4 days?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387472</id>
	<title>Re:There's no line</title>
	<author>Jarik C-Bol</author>
	<datestamp>1260456780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>and for every blockbuster movie, there is some lame 7th rate cut budget no-name film studio release of the same film. (the tom cruise war of the worlds had like 3 no name studio knockoffs release the same year. not that the Cruise one was anything to write home about)
<br> <br>
the point is, people try to ride the coattails of other peoples successes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>and for every blockbuster movie , there is some lame 7th rate cut budget no-name film studio release of the same film .
( the tom cruise war of the worlds had like 3 no name studio knockoffs release the same year .
not that the Cruise one was anything to write home about ) the point is , people try to ride the coattails of other peoples successes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and for every blockbuster movie, there is some lame 7th rate cut budget no-name film studio release of the same film.
(the tom cruise war of the worlds had like 3 no name studio knockoffs release the same year.
not that the Cruise one was anything to write home about)
 
the point is, people try to ride the coattails of other peoples successes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388008</id>
	<title>Shouldn't this be called:</title>
	<author>Rattenhirn</author>
	<datestamp>1260460260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Treading the Fuzzy Line Between Game Homage and Copyright Infringement"?</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Treading the Fuzzy Line Between Game Homage and Copyright Infringement " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Treading the Fuzzy Line Between Game Homage and Copyright Infringement"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387066</id>
	<title>Re:Culture vs Consumerism</title>
	<author>obarthelemy</author>
	<datestamp>1260453780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My feeling is the opposite: if you don't have to spend ages looking for prior art, and millions in preventive lawyers fee, you're freer to focus on actually coming up with and developing your ideas.</p><p>Of course, some will also be freer to spend their time looking for others' ideas to steal too... There's a balance to find, and I think right now, we've over-balanced.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My feeling is the opposite : if you do n't have to spend ages looking for prior art , and millions in preventive lawyers fee , you 're freer to focus on actually coming up with and developing your ideas.Of course , some will also be freer to spend their time looking for others ' ideas to steal too... There 's a balance to find , and I think right now , we 've over-balanced .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My feeling is the opposite: if you don't have to spend ages looking for prior art, and millions in preventive lawyers fee, you're freer to focus on actually coming up with and developing your ideas.Of course, some will also be freer to spend their time looking for others' ideas to steal too... There's a balance to find, and I think right now, we've over-balanced.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30391214</id>
	<title>Difficult topic.</title>
	<author>tp\_xyzzy</author>
	<datestamp>1260471600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We should think about the reason why developers clone someone elses product. It can cut down amount of work by half, if you just look how someone else combined the elements required for a game, and then implement exactly those modules that were present in the original. It reduces creativity to do so, and thus cuts down the state space that needs to be managed to get it fully working. Most professional developers can immediately see from existing software product what software modules were required to implement it. This makes it attractive for those that want to create something bigger than what they have resources to do.</p><p>Games take huge amount of effort to build. With 2 years of work, you cannot expect to get a very popular game. Clones of games are mostly useful for implementing the same game for more than one platform by the original developer, or his publisher. In fact I've seen publishers buy original games from their developers, and then build clones of it for different platforms to build a better product to sell on the market. The fact is that a game will not be successful if it is not available via multiple channels which provide network effects.</p><p>If you build an exact clone of someone elses product, you should have a permission from original author. Otherwise you'll end up in trouble. Just because original author has not decided to utilize some platform or market area, does not mean that you can fill that market with your custom clone. My understanding is that these issues are mostly important for commercial publishers of products. But in the end, the developers will get burned if they decide to build a clone, since no publisher is able to sell a clone against wishes of original authors.</p><p>Exclusive copyright contracts between publishers and authors makes the situation a little strange. The original author is unable to improve the product and resell it via different channel or platform -- only the publisher can build a clone or improved versions of it. So many platforms will never see a version of the product and developers are prevented from making their work available in multiple market areas. Publishers need a permission from original author, but they often insist on exclusive contracts. In a big world like ours and universal copyability of software, restricting products to just one market area where that single publisher is present seems a little waste. If you're a developer and have used several years of your time to build a software product, and then all the work is wasted because of exclusive contract between publisher and developer, it does not seem very efficient use of resources.</p><p>But probably there was a good reason why this system works like this. I just don't know what that reason is. But I trust the government to fix the system once they see there is a problem. Not just follow the advice of those that shout loudest, but also think the system as a whole. Every player is contributing something important to the process of producing digital works. They all have a role in it, and we developers don't need to understand it fully to be part of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We should think about the reason why developers clone someone elses product .
It can cut down amount of work by half , if you just look how someone else combined the elements required for a game , and then implement exactly those modules that were present in the original .
It reduces creativity to do so , and thus cuts down the state space that needs to be managed to get it fully working .
Most professional developers can immediately see from existing software product what software modules were required to implement it .
This makes it attractive for those that want to create something bigger than what they have resources to do.Games take huge amount of effort to build .
With 2 years of work , you can not expect to get a very popular game .
Clones of games are mostly useful for implementing the same game for more than one platform by the original developer , or his publisher .
In fact I 've seen publishers buy original games from their developers , and then build clones of it for different platforms to build a better product to sell on the market .
The fact is that a game will not be successful if it is not available via multiple channels which provide network effects.If you build an exact clone of someone elses product , you should have a permission from original author .
Otherwise you 'll end up in trouble .
Just because original author has not decided to utilize some platform or market area , does not mean that you can fill that market with your custom clone .
My understanding is that these issues are mostly important for commercial publishers of products .
But in the end , the developers will get burned if they decide to build a clone , since no publisher is able to sell a clone against wishes of original authors.Exclusive copyright contracts between publishers and authors makes the situation a little strange .
The original author is unable to improve the product and resell it via different channel or platform -- only the publisher can build a clone or improved versions of it .
So many platforms will never see a version of the product and developers are prevented from making their work available in multiple market areas .
Publishers need a permission from original author , but they often insist on exclusive contracts .
In a big world like ours and universal copyability of software , restricting products to just one market area where that single publisher is present seems a little waste .
If you 're a developer and have used several years of your time to build a software product , and then all the work is wasted because of exclusive contract between publisher and developer , it does not seem very efficient use of resources.But probably there was a good reason why this system works like this .
I just do n't know what that reason is .
But I trust the government to fix the system once they see there is a problem .
Not just follow the advice of those that shout loudest , but also think the system as a whole .
Every player is contributing something important to the process of producing digital works .
They all have a role in it , and we developers do n't need to understand it fully to be part of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We should think about the reason why developers clone someone elses product.
It can cut down amount of work by half, if you just look how someone else combined the elements required for a game, and then implement exactly those modules that were present in the original.
It reduces creativity to do so, and thus cuts down the state space that needs to be managed to get it fully working.
Most professional developers can immediately see from existing software product what software modules were required to implement it.
This makes it attractive for those that want to create something bigger than what they have resources to do.Games take huge amount of effort to build.
With 2 years of work, you cannot expect to get a very popular game.
Clones of games are mostly useful for implementing the same game for more than one platform by the original developer, or his publisher.
In fact I've seen publishers buy original games from their developers, and then build clones of it for different platforms to build a better product to sell on the market.
The fact is that a game will not be successful if it is not available via multiple channels which provide network effects.If you build an exact clone of someone elses product, you should have a permission from original author.
Otherwise you'll end up in trouble.
Just because original author has not decided to utilize some platform or market area, does not mean that you can fill that market with your custom clone.
My understanding is that these issues are mostly important for commercial publishers of products.
But in the end, the developers will get burned if they decide to build a clone, since no publisher is able to sell a clone against wishes of original authors.Exclusive copyright contracts between publishers and authors makes the situation a little strange.
The original author is unable to improve the product and resell it via different channel or platform -- only the publisher can build a clone or improved versions of it.
So many platforms will never see a version of the product and developers are prevented from making their work available in multiple market areas.
Publishers need a permission from original author, but they often insist on exclusive contracts.
In a big world like ours and universal copyability of software, restricting products to just one market area where that single publisher is present seems a little waste.
If you're a developer and have used several years of your time to build a software product, and then all the work is wasted because of exclusive contract between publisher and developer, it does not seem very efficient use of resources.But probably there was a good reason why this system works like this.
I just don't know what that reason is.
But I trust the government to fix the system once they see there is a problem.
Not just follow the advice of those that shout loudest, but also think the system as a whole.
Every player is contributing something important to the process of producing digital works.
They all have a role in it, and we developers don't need to understand it fully to be part of it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386662</id>
	<title>Re:Warcraft</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260449160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's scant little "pen and paper" in Warhammer, and the gameplay is bugger-all like Warcraft. The setting is a knock-off but the game sure as hell isn't.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's scant little " pen and paper " in Warhammer , and the gameplay is bugger-all like Warcraft .
The setting is a knock-off but the game sure as hell is n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's scant little "pen and paper" in Warhammer, and the gameplay is bugger-all like Warcraft.
The setting is a knock-off but the game sure as hell isn't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386592</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387206</id>
	<title>Heh..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260455040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The entire Open source movement is based on creating clones of previously successful proprietary software..</p><p>Seems to work for them<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>+5, Flamebait.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The entire Open source movement is based on creating clones of previously successful proprietary software..Seems to work for them : ) + 5 , Flamebait .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The entire Open source movement is based on creating clones of previously successful proprietary software..Seems to work for them :)+5, Flamebait.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387234</id>
	<title>Re:Sometimes clones surpass the original</title>
	<author>kjart</author>
	<datestamp>1260455280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>To be fair Tyranids were ripped off from the movie Alien. That being said, I do agree with you on your implied point about Blizzard gettin too much credit sometimes. While they make polished games (which I can certainly appreciate) I've never found that they bring much new to the table. Just look at the upcoming SC2 vs Supreme Commander (on the tech side) or the Dawn of War series (for gameplay).</htmltext>
<tokenext>To be fair Tyranids were ripped off from the movie Alien .
That being said , I do agree with you on your implied point about Blizzard gettin too much credit sometimes .
While they make polished games ( which I can certainly appreciate ) I 've never found that they bring much new to the table .
Just look at the upcoming SC2 vs Supreme Commander ( on the tech side ) or the Dawn of War series ( for gameplay ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To be fair Tyranids were ripped off from the movie Alien.
That being said, I do agree with you on your implied point about Blizzard gettin too much credit sometimes.
While they make polished games (which I can certainly appreciate) I've never found that they bring much new to the table.
Just look at the upcoming SC2 vs Supreme Commander (on the tech side) or the Dawn of War series (for gameplay).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386724</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387174</id>
	<title>oh well, it's my brain not yours</title>
	<author>OrangeTide</author>
	<datestamp>1260454800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In many ways you owe most of your creative efforts to the society that formed you. Ideas are usually not absolutely original. And have an original basis or inspiration. Clones are usually poor clones. if you don't like competition, find a new line of work.</p><p>Also there is plenty of great software out there that are just clones:<br>* Microsoft Excel is just a clone of Lotus123 which is a clone of VisiCalc.<br>* Linux is a clone of Unix.</p><p>I'm tired and can't think of other examples. I'm not convinced that a person deserves protection but if they can't execute on a successful business and only has ideas and "designs". I realize that people work hard to design cool things, and they *feel* cheated when someone just hops in and makes a clone that is almost as good as theirs. But the important thing to remember is that it is a feeling. Where you actually cheated? I don't think so. Is it fair? Maybe. Is life fair? No way.</p><p>Also, it is hard for me to accept that a person owns an idea after they showed it to world. By then the idea is in my brain, and frankly nobody owns anything that is in my brain but me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In many ways you owe most of your creative efforts to the society that formed you .
Ideas are usually not absolutely original .
And have an original basis or inspiration .
Clones are usually poor clones .
if you do n't like competition , find a new line of work.Also there is plenty of great software out there that are just clones : * Microsoft Excel is just a clone of Lotus123 which is a clone of VisiCalc .
* Linux is a clone of Unix.I 'm tired and ca n't think of other examples .
I 'm not convinced that a person deserves protection but if they ca n't execute on a successful business and only has ideas and " designs " .
I realize that people work hard to design cool things , and they * feel * cheated when someone just hops in and makes a clone that is almost as good as theirs .
But the important thing to remember is that it is a feeling .
Where you actually cheated ?
I do n't think so .
Is it fair ?
Maybe. Is life fair ?
No way.Also , it is hard for me to accept that a person owns an idea after they showed it to world .
By then the idea is in my brain , and frankly nobody owns anything that is in my brain but me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In many ways you owe most of your creative efforts to the society that formed you.
Ideas are usually not absolutely original.
And have an original basis or inspiration.
Clones are usually poor clones.
if you don't like competition, find a new line of work.Also there is plenty of great software out there that are just clones:* Microsoft Excel is just a clone of Lotus123 which is a clone of VisiCalc.
* Linux is a clone of Unix.I'm tired and can't think of other examples.
I'm not convinced that a person deserves protection but if they can't execute on a successful business and only has ideas and "designs".
I realize that people work hard to design cool things, and they *feel* cheated when someone just hops in and makes a clone that is almost as good as theirs.
But the important thing to remember is that it is a feeling.
Where you actually cheated?
I don't think so.
Is it fair?
Maybe. Is life fair?
No way.Also, it is hard for me to accept that a person owns an idea after they showed it to world.
By then the idea is in my brain, and frankly nobody owns anything that is in my brain but me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387416</id>
	<title>Most popular?</title>
	<author>Bakkster</author>
	<datestamp>1260456480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Zynga's Cafe World and Playfish's Restaurant City (the two most popular Facebook games).</p></div><p> <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/most-active-facebook-games-over-the-past-four-weeks-1826267.html" title="independent.co.uk">This article would beg to differ</a> [independent.co.uk] that they are the two <em>most</em> popular.  However, the top two (FarmVille and Cafe World) do have clones (Farm Town and Restaurant City) at 8th and 9th places.
</p><p>But can you blame them?  FarmVille had 65.6 million <strong>active</strong> users in one month, I think a lot of devs would be just fine with only 1\% of that, and a clone might be a simple way to get it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Zynga 's Cafe World and Playfish 's Restaurant City ( the two most popular Facebook games ) .
This article would beg to differ [ independent.co.uk ] that they are the two most popular .
However , the top two ( FarmVille and Cafe World ) do have clones ( Farm Town and Restaurant City ) at 8th and 9th places .
But can you blame them ?
FarmVille had 65.6 million active users in one month , I think a lot of devs would be just fine with only 1 \ % of that , and a clone might be a simple way to get it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Zynga's Cafe World and Playfish's Restaurant City (the two most popular Facebook games).
This article would beg to differ [independent.co.uk] that they are the two most popular.
However, the top two (FarmVille and Cafe World) do have clones (Farm Town and Restaurant City) at 8th and 9th places.
But can you blame them?
FarmVille had 65.6 million active users in one month, I think a lot of devs would be just fine with only 1\% of that, and a clone might be a simple way to get it.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386592</id>
	<title>Warcraft</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260448140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>One of the world's most popular computer game franchises is a clone of Games Workshop's tabletop/pen &amp; paper games.  That seems to work OK.</p><p>(captcha = helmets)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the world 's most popular computer game franchises is a clone of Games Workshop 's tabletop/pen &amp; paper games .
That seems to work OK. ( captcha = helmets )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the world's most popular computer game franchises is a clone of Games Workshop's tabletop/pen &amp; paper games.
That seems to work OK.(captcha = helmets)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386792</id>
	<title>Re:There's no line</title>
	<author>Narpak</author>
	<datestamp>1260450840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And what's the big deal, anyway? For every successful game, there have always been a few clones</p></div><p>So to within the world of literature. After many ground breaking works; like say Tolkien, there were multitudes of new works from aspiring authors that wanted to write that type of literature; with a range of quality from piss poor to works that could be called unique in their own way. This to can be found, as mentioned, among computer games, just look at Wolfenstein3D/Doom and all the clones that popped up over the years. While most are now entirely forgotten some became hits in their own right; and FPS games are still being made today.<br> <br>
Of course if we are talking about someone taking a game and just remaking it on another platform, with almost no alterations, we might be talking plagiarism. But concept "cloning" is, in my mind, entirely legitimate.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And what 's the big deal , anyway ?
For every successful game , there have always been a few clonesSo to within the world of literature .
After many ground breaking works ; like say Tolkien , there were multitudes of new works from aspiring authors that wanted to write that type of literature ; with a range of quality from piss poor to works that could be called unique in their own way .
This to can be found , as mentioned , among computer games , just look at Wolfenstein3D/Doom and all the clones that popped up over the years .
While most are now entirely forgotten some became hits in their own right ; and FPS games are still being made today .
Of course if we are talking about someone taking a game and just remaking it on another platform , with almost no alterations , we might be talking plagiarism .
But concept " cloning " is , in my mind , entirely legitimate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And what's the big deal, anyway?
For every successful game, there have always been a few clonesSo to within the world of literature.
After many ground breaking works; like say Tolkien, there were multitudes of new works from aspiring authors that wanted to write that type of literature; with a range of quality from piss poor to works that could be called unique in their own way.
This to can be found, as mentioned, among computer games, just look at Wolfenstein3D/Doom and all the clones that popped up over the years.
While most are now entirely forgotten some became hits in their own right; and FPS games are still being made today.
Of course if we are talking about someone taking a game and just remaking it on another platform, with almost no alterations, we might be talking plagiarism.
But concept "cloning" is, in my mind, entirely legitimate.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388204</id>
	<title>What ever happened to...</title>
	<author>Divinemonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1260461400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

There are no new ideas.  Only clever repackaging of old ones.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery .
There are no new ideas .
Only clever repackaging of old ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
There are no new ideas.
Only clever repackaging of old ones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387140</id>
	<title>Re:Warcraft</title>
	<author>Nathrael</author>
	<datestamp>1260454500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>To be fair though, Blizzard cooperated a lot with Games Workshop iirc. GW even did some concept art for them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>To be fair though , Blizzard cooperated a lot with Games Workshop iirc .
GW even did some concept art for them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To be fair though, Blizzard cooperated a lot with Games Workshop iirc.
GW even did some concept art for them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386592</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386722</id>
	<title>Clones should be abhorred</title>
	<author>Shinobi</author>
	<datestamp>1260450120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The reason is that no clone brings any innovation or evolution. Another problem is developers who confuse cloning and inspiration, thinking both equate the other. There are some who view any game inspired by theirs as a clone, but far more common are developers who straight off clone/plagiarize something and then claim it's inspired by as well as innovation blah blah, and it's not just game developers who are guilty of that. In fact, just look at development in various open source areas, and you'll see that they are more busy plagiarizing functionality and then spouting off some PR about innovation rather than actually engage in innovation. GIMP is one, the Linux project has a fair amount of it too. The various BSD's have also done this, but to a lesser extent.</p><p>The FSF may claim that it somehow fosters innovation, but that's disingenious at best. Innovation is, when you get down to the root of it, to say "Who cares if others think I'm wasting my time, I'll do this completely new thing". Plagiarization fosters laziness and incompetence.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason is that no clone brings any innovation or evolution .
Another problem is developers who confuse cloning and inspiration , thinking both equate the other .
There are some who view any game inspired by theirs as a clone , but far more common are developers who straight off clone/plagiarize something and then claim it 's inspired by as well as innovation blah blah , and it 's not just game developers who are guilty of that .
In fact , just look at development in various open source areas , and you 'll see that they are more busy plagiarizing functionality and then spouting off some PR about innovation rather than actually engage in innovation .
GIMP is one , the Linux project has a fair amount of it too .
The various BSD 's have also done this , but to a lesser extent.The FSF may claim that it somehow fosters innovation , but that 's disingenious at best .
Innovation is , when you get down to the root of it , to say " Who cares if others think I 'm wasting my time , I 'll do this completely new thing " .
Plagiarization fosters laziness and incompetence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason is that no clone brings any innovation or evolution.
Another problem is developers who confuse cloning and inspiration, thinking both equate the other.
There are some who view any game inspired by theirs as a clone, but far more common are developers who straight off clone/plagiarize something and then claim it's inspired by as well as innovation blah blah, and it's not just game developers who are guilty of that.
In fact, just look at development in various open source areas, and you'll see that they are more busy plagiarizing functionality and then spouting off some PR about innovation rather than actually engage in innovation.
GIMP is one, the Linux project has a fair amount of it too.
The various BSD's have also done this, but to a lesser extent.The FSF may claim that it somehow fosters innovation, but that's disingenious at best.
Innovation is, when you get down to the root of it, to say "Who cares if others think I'm wasting my time, I'll do this completely new thing".
Plagiarization fosters laziness and incompetence.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386636</id>
	<title>There's no line</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260448740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First, there's no theft. There could possibly be copyright infringement if somebody is using somebody else's graphics.</p><p>Second, there doesn't seem to be any copyright infringement, since as far as I can tell nothing is being copied. Copyright only applies to copies of the original material. Making your own graphics that look a lot like something else is not copyright infringement.</p><p>There could possibly be trademark infringement, but that's most definitely not theft.</p><p>And what's the big deal, anyway? For every successful game, there have always been a few clones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First , there 's no theft .
There could possibly be copyright infringement if somebody is using somebody else 's graphics.Second , there does n't seem to be any copyright infringement , since as far as I can tell nothing is being copied .
Copyright only applies to copies of the original material .
Making your own graphics that look a lot like something else is not copyright infringement.There could possibly be trademark infringement , but that 's most definitely not theft.And what 's the big deal , anyway ?
For every successful game , there have always been a few clones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, there's no theft.
There could possibly be copyright infringement if somebody is using somebody else's graphics.Second, there doesn't seem to be any copyright infringement, since as far as I can tell nothing is being copied.
Copyright only applies to copies of the original material.
Making your own graphics that look a lot like something else is not copyright infringement.There could possibly be trademark infringement, but that's most definitely not theft.And what's the big deal, anyway?
For every successful game, there have always been a few clones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387546</id>
	<title>great giana sisters !</title>
	<author>yossarianuk</author>
	<datestamp>1260457320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I remember great giana sisters being more playable (and far faster) than the original mario bros - I was glad that came out as Nintendo would never have made an Amiga version of Mario. In this case the clone was banned<br> <br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Great\_Giana\_Sisters<br>br&gt;</htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember great giana sisters being more playable ( and far faster ) than the original mario bros - I was glad that came out as Nintendo would never have made an Amiga version of Mario .
In this case the clone was banned http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The \ _Great \ _Giana \ _Sistersbr &gt;</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember great giana sisters being more playable (and far faster) than the original mario bros - I was glad that came out as Nintendo would never have made an Amiga version of Mario.
In this case the clone was banned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Great\_Giana\_Sistersbr&gt;</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388528</id>
	<title>Re:Clones should be abhorred</title>
	<author>Bill\_the\_Engineer</author>
	<datestamp>1260463080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sometime "clones" spawn innovation, because the writers need a starting point to realize some of the concepts introduced by the original.
</p><p>I think the word clone is being misused, and I think that it's being used to strengthen a case for software patents which offer the protections that the detractors of clone desire.
</p><p>If we didn't have "one-off" products (which is what we call some of our works that we create for others to copy) we couldn't seed the market place with an idea that would later be a basis for innovation.
</p><p>If we didn't have what you called "cloning" which was rampant in the 80's, we would be still using Wangs for word processing, Visicalc for spreadsheets, Mosaic for browsing the web, and Lycos or Altavista for searching the internet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sometime " clones " spawn innovation , because the writers need a starting point to realize some of the concepts introduced by the original .
I think the word clone is being misused , and I think that it 's being used to strengthen a case for software patents which offer the protections that the detractors of clone desire .
If we did n't have " one-off " products ( which is what we call some of our works that we create for others to copy ) we could n't seed the market place with an idea that would later be a basis for innovation .
If we did n't have what you called " cloning " which was rampant in the 80 's , we would be still using Wangs for word processing , Visicalc for spreadsheets , Mosaic for browsing the web , and Lycos or Altavista for searching the internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sometime "clones" spawn innovation, because the writers need a starting point to realize some of the concepts introduced by the original.
I think the word clone is being misused, and I think that it's being used to strengthen a case for software patents which offer the protections that the detractors of clone desire.
If we didn't have "one-off" products (which is what we call some of our works that we create for others to copy) we couldn't seed the market place with an idea that would later be a basis for innovation.
If we didn't have what you called "cloning" which was rampant in the 80's, we would be still using Wangs for word processing, Visicalc for spreadsheets, Mosaic for browsing the web, and Lycos or Altavista for searching the internet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386712</id>
	<title>Visual Style</title>
	<author>Aladrin</author>
	<datestamp>1260449880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you copy a game right down to it's unique visual style, it's pretty obvious what side of the line you are on.  If the developer of Aquatica had created his own graphical style from scratch, but kept the same gameplay rules, it would have been a lot murkier.  And I think he would even have been left alone.</p><p>Devil Kings and 99 Nights were very clearly clones of Dynasty Warriors, but they brought their own visual styles, characters and plots to the table.  The engine behind them is pretty much the same.  No reasonable people called it theft.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you copy a game right down to it 's unique visual style , it 's pretty obvious what side of the line you are on .
If the developer of Aquatica had created his own graphical style from scratch , but kept the same gameplay rules , it would have been a lot murkier .
And I think he would even have been left alone.Devil Kings and 99 Nights were very clearly clones of Dynasty Warriors , but they brought their own visual styles , characters and plots to the table .
The engine behind them is pretty much the same .
No reasonable people called it theft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you copy a game right down to it's unique visual style, it's pretty obvious what side of the line you are on.
If the developer of Aquatica had created his own graphical style from scratch, but kept the same gameplay rules, it would have been a lot murkier.
And I think he would even have been left alone.Devil Kings and 99 Nights were very clearly clones of Dynasty Warriors, but they brought their own visual styles, characters and plots to the table.
The engine behind them is pretty much the same.
No reasonable people called it theft.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386870</id>
	<title>Re:Warcraft</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260451680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There's scant little "pen and paper" in Warhammer</p></div><p>You've never played WHFRP, I see.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's scant little " pen and paper " in WarhammerYou 've never played WHFRP , I see .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's scant little "pen and paper" in WarhammerYou've never played WHFRP, I see.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386662</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386594</id>
	<title>Sometimes clones surpass the original</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260448140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Starcraft is one example. I would rather play Starcraft than C&amp;C.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Starcraft is one example .
I would rather play Starcraft than C&amp;C .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Starcraft is one example.
I would rather play Starcraft than C&amp;C.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386724</id>
	<title>Re:Sometimes clones surpass the original</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260450120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...and Starcraft is a clone of Warhammer 40,000, the sci-fi version of Warhammer Fantasy Battles.  Blizzard rips off Games Workshop again.  Zerg = Tyranids, Terrans = The Imperium of Man, Protoss = Eldar...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...and Starcraft is a clone of Warhammer 40,000 , the sci-fi version of Warhammer Fantasy Battles .
Blizzard rips off Games Workshop again .
Zerg = Tyranids , Terrans = The Imperium of Man , Protoss = Eldar.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and Starcraft is a clone of Warhammer 40,000, the sci-fi version of Warhammer Fantasy Battles.
Blizzard rips off Games Workshop again.
Zerg = Tyranids, Terrans = The Imperium of Man, Protoss = Eldar...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30392394</id>
	<title>Re:Iteration leads to innovation</title>
	<author>Jim Hall</author>
	<datestamp>1260475740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd like to add that Uncharted 2 is likely to be Game of the Year. But it's pretty darn similar (daresay, a <em>clone</em>?) to Tomb Raider, going all the way back to the original PlayStation. The only major differences are: the main character is a guy, and the graphics are better.</p><p>Jewel Quest was basically a version of Bejeweled, but with some RPG elements that turn it into a whole new experience.</p><p>Let's not forget that the first Half-Life for the PC was hailed as Game of the Year at the time. But isn't it really just a clone of Doom and Wolfenstein3D? I don't recall iD bitching about Duke Nukem, Blood, and all the other Doom knock-offs. After all, it's just running around, shooting things.</p><p>Going back a little further, anyone else remember Commander Keen for DOS? Maybe you didn't know that the game was originally written to be a DOS port of Super Mario Brothers, hence all the side-scrolling, jumping action. So is Commander Keen a ripoff of SMB?</p><p>As a gamer, it personally ticks me off to see a game that's a direct copy of another game, trying to cash in on a suddenly popular game. But I also recognize that this is part of the process to create better games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd like to add that Uncharted 2 is likely to be Game of the Year .
But it 's pretty darn similar ( daresay , a clone ?
) to Tomb Raider , going all the way back to the original PlayStation .
The only major differences are : the main character is a guy , and the graphics are better.Jewel Quest was basically a version of Bejeweled , but with some RPG elements that turn it into a whole new experience.Let 's not forget that the first Half-Life for the PC was hailed as Game of the Year at the time .
But is n't it really just a clone of Doom and Wolfenstein3D ?
I do n't recall iD bitching about Duke Nukem , Blood , and all the other Doom knock-offs .
After all , it 's just running around , shooting things.Going back a little further , anyone else remember Commander Keen for DOS ?
Maybe you did n't know that the game was originally written to be a DOS port of Super Mario Brothers , hence all the side-scrolling , jumping action .
So is Commander Keen a ripoff of SMB ? As a gamer , it personally ticks me off to see a game that 's a direct copy of another game , trying to cash in on a suddenly popular game .
But I also recognize that this is part of the process to create better games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd like to add that Uncharted 2 is likely to be Game of the Year.
But it's pretty darn similar (daresay, a clone?
) to Tomb Raider, going all the way back to the original PlayStation.
The only major differences are: the main character is a guy, and the graphics are better.Jewel Quest was basically a version of Bejeweled, but with some RPG elements that turn it into a whole new experience.Let's not forget that the first Half-Life for the PC was hailed as Game of the Year at the time.
But isn't it really just a clone of Doom and Wolfenstein3D?
I don't recall iD bitching about Duke Nukem, Blood, and all the other Doom knock-offs.
After all, it's just running around, shooting things.Going back a little further, anyone else remember Commander Keen for DOS?
Maybe you didn't know that the game was originally written to be a DOS port of Super Mario Brothers, hence all the side-scrolling, jumping action.
So is Commander Keen a ripoff of SMB?As a gamer, it personally ticks me off to see a game that's a direct copy of another game, trying to cash in on a suddenly popular game.
But I also recognize that this is part of the process to create better games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386860</id>
	<title>Re:It's copyright infringement, not theft!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260451560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The discussion isn't based upon the legal definition.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The discussion is n't based upon the legal definition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The discussion isn't based upon the legal definition.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386746</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388712</id>
	<title>Re:Most popular?</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1260463860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>TFA actually said &ldquo;Zynga&rsquo;s <em>Cafe World</em> and Playfish&rsquo;s <em>Restaurant City</em>, the two most popular <strong>restaurant sims</strong> on Facebook.&rdquo;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>TFA actually said    Zynga    s Cafe World and Playfish    s Restaurant City , the two most popular restaurant sims on Facebook.   </tokentext>
<sentencetext>TFA actually said “Zynga’s Cafe World and Playfish’s Restaurant City, the two most popular restaurant sims on Facebook.”</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387416</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30392176</id>
	<title>Game Clonings Benefits</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260475020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been playing a small Capture the Flag game on and off for many years now called ARC (Attack Retrieve Capture). Throughout the years its changed many hands going from TEN to WON to Sierra and eventually Sierra decided that it would never be profitable to run the game and decided to shut it down. They refused to turn the game over to the fan base to allow them to continue using the game. Luckily for the ARC community someone had spent the time to create a very good clone of the game called Spark. If it hadn't been for game cloning a small but dedicated community of players would have been destroyed.</p><p>Try it out yourself: <a href="http://www.spark-hq.net/" title="spark-hq.net" rel="nofollow">www.spark-hq.net</a> [spark-hq.net]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been playing a small Capture the Flag game on and off for many years now called ARC ( Attack Retrieve Capture ) .
Throughout the years its changed many hands going from TEN to WON to Sierra and eventually Sierra decided that it would never be profitable to run the game and decided to shut it down .
They refused to turn the game over to the fan base to allow them to continue using the game .
Luckily for the ARC community someone had spent the time to create a very good clone of the game called Spark .
If it had n't been for game cloning a small but dedicated community of players would have been destroyed.Try it out yourself : www.spark-hq.net [ spark-hq.net ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been playing a small Capture the Flag game on and off for many years now called ARC (Attack Retrieve Capture).
Throughout the years its changed many hands going from TEN to WON to Sierra and eventually Sierra decided that it would never be profitable to run the game and decided to shut it down.
They refused to turn the game over to the fan base to allow them to continue using the game.
Luckily for the ARC community someone had spent the time to create a very good clone of the game called Spark.
If it hadn't been for game cloning a small but dedicated community of players would have been destroyed.Try it out yourself: www.spark-hq.net [spark-hq.net]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30396718</id>
	<title>Re:Warcraft</title>
	<author>Patch86</author>
	<datestamp>1260449940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Games Workshop, incidentally, took a lot of "inspiration" from D&amp;D, which itself was heavily based on Tolkien's fiction. And Tolkien took a lot of his ideas from folk lore and mythology...</p><p>It's funny how creativity works. One man's "knock off" is another's loving tribute.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Games Workshop , incidentally , took a lot of " inspiration " from D&amp;D , which itself was heavily based on Tolkien 's fiction .
And Tolkien took a lot of his ideas from folk lore and mythology...It 's funny how creativity works .
One man 's " knock off " is another 's loving tribute .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Games Workshop, incidentally, took a lot of "inspiration" from D&amp;D, which itself was heavily based on Tolkien's fiction.
And Tolkien took a lot of his ideas from folk lore and mythology...It's funny how creativity works.
One man's "knock off" is another's loving tribute.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386662</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388034</id>
	<title>Aren't they all clones?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260460380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All games are clones of ro-sham-bo so they should all shut their pie holes.<br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All games are clones of ro-sham-bo so they should all shut their pie holes.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All games are clones of ro-sham-bo so they should all shut their pie holes.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30400034</id>
	<title>Re:Clones should be abhorred</title>
	<author>Shinobi</author>
	<datestamp>1260535140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you read my post carefully, you'll see that I made a clear distinction between inspiration and cloning, and how the two were misused as synonymous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you read my post carefully , you 'll see that I made a clear distinction between inspiration and cloning , and how the two were misused as synonymous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you read my post carefully, you'll see that I made a clear distinction between inspiration and cloning, and how the two were misused as synonymous.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388528</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388450</id>
	<title>Intent</title>
	<author>AA Wulf</author>
	<datestamp>1260462660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most everyone keeps bringing up legalities like theft, copyright, trademark, plagiarism, etc.but not really evaluating the ethical issues for why these laws exist.  I think what is important to look at here is intent.  Is the intent to make an homage to a pre-existing work or to simply steal all the hard work and pass it off as your own?  Is the intent to improve on the work already done or to simply copy it?  D&amp;D ripped off a lot of Tolkein, but it created a new universe and placed it in a new environment (the RPG).  Paladium Fantasy rips off a lot of D&amp;D, but puts it in Paladium's own universe with their own RPG system.  Warcraft rips off D&amp;D as well, but again, new universe, new environment (video games).  I don't consider these "clones."  The intent of these games were to take pre-existing content and improve upon it and creatively make it their own.  <br> <br>It's an entirely different story when we're looking back at the old days of Atari / NES.  How many Gradius clones were there, for instance?  Did these games really improve upon the content of Gradius, or simply take the same gameplay the same concepts and simply change how a few things functioned to make a "different" game?  Castlevania clones, SMB clones, Defender clones, they all abounded in the land of 8-bit, because it was easy to do it.  We don't see as many clones these days unless we're looking at the mod community, and the majority of those modders are attempting to make an homage to their favorite games within another of their favorite games, with no intent of ever making money off it.  <br> <br>I think modding should be encouraged, as it leads to new and better games.  I think using inspired content to branch out into new universes and new genres should also be encouraged.  It is the actual lazy turn-a-buck copypasta clone games which should be despised -- <br> <br> -- but without them, we wouldn't have many games on our cell phones...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most everyone keeps bringing up legalities like theft , copyright , trademark , plagiarism , etc.but not really evaluating the ethical issues for why these laws exist .
I think what is important to look at here is intent .
Is the intent to make an homage to a pre-existing work or to simply steal all the hard work and pass it off as your own ?
Is the intent to improve on the work already done or to simply copy it ?
D&amp;D ripped off a lot of Tolkein , but it created a new universe and placed it in a new environment ( the RPG ) .
Paladium Fantasy rips off a lot of D&amp;D , but puts it in Paladium 's own universe with their own RPG system .
Warcraft rips off D&amp;D as well , but again , new universe , new environment ( video games ) .
I do n't consider these " clones .
" The intent of these games were to take pre-existing content and improve upon it and creatively make it their own .
It 's an entirely different story when we 're looking back at the old days of Atari / NES .
How many Gradius clones were there , for instance ?
Did these games really improve upon the content of Gradius , or simply take the same gameplay the same concepts and simply change how a few things functioned to make a " different " game ?
Castlevania clones , SMB clones , Defender clones , they all abounded in the land of 8-bit , because it was easy to do it .
We do n't see as many clones these days unless we 're looking at the mod community , and the majority of those modders are attempting to make an homage to their favorite games within another of their favorite games , with no intent of ever making money off it .
I think modding should be encouraged , as it leads to new and better games .
I think using inspired content to branch out into new universes and new genres should also be encouraged .
It is the actual lazy turn-a-buck copypasta clone games which should be despised -- -- but without them , we would n't have many games on our cell phones.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most everyone keeps bringing up legalities like theft, copyright, trademark, plagiarism, etc.but not really evaluating the ethical issues for why these laws exist.
I think what is important to look at here is intent.
Is the intent to make an homage to a pre-existing work or to simply steal all the hard work and pass it off as your own?
Is the intent to improve on the work already done or to simply copy it?
D&amp;D ripped off a lot of Tolkein, but it created a new universe and placed it in a new environment (the RPG).
Paladium Fantasy rips off a lot of D&amp;D, but puts it in Paladium's own universe with their own RPG system.
Warcraft rips off D&amp;D as well, but again, new universe, new environment (video games).
I don't consider these "clones.
"  The intent of these games were to take pre-existing content and improve upon it and creatively make it their own.
It's an entirely different story when we're looking back at the old days of Atari / NES.
How many Gradius clones were there, for instance?
Did these games really improve upon the content of Gradius, or simply take the same gameplay the same concepts and simply change how a few things functioned to make a "different" game?
Castlevania clones, SMB clones, Defender clones, they all abounded in the land of 8-bit, because it was easy to do it.
We don't see as many clones these days unless we're looking at the mod community, and the majority of those modders are attempting to make an homage to their favorite games within another of their favorite games, with no intent of ever making money off it.
I think modding should be encouraged, as it leads to new and better games.
I think using inspired content to branch out into new universes and new genres should also be encouraged.
It is the actual lazy turn-a-buck copypasta clone games which should be despised --   -- but without them, we wouldn't have many games on our cell phones...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387952</id>
	<title>Re:No, it's plagiarism not copyright infringement</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1260459960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Game design is not academia.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Game design is not academia .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Game design is not academia.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30390556</id>
	<title>Re:The great pet war of 2010</title>
	<author>MiniMike</author>
	<datestamp>1260469500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I think 2010 will be the year of the Great Pet War...</p></div><p>Will <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael\_Vick" title="wikipedia.org">Michael Vick</a> [wikipedia.org] be involved in any way?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think 2010 will be the year of the Great Pet War...Will Michael Vick [ wikipedia.org ] be involved in any way ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think 2010 will be the year of the Great Pet War...Will Michael Vick [wikipedia.org] be involved in any way?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387116</id>
	<title>Re:Clones should be abhorred</title>
	<author>obarthelemy</author>
	<datestamp>1260454260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know who ever built the first car, but I'm glad as all hell you weren't around at the time, or we'd still be using this slow, not weather-proof and noisy piece of crap. It probably had real leather seats, though.</p><p>I'm glad others copied his idea, and built on it.</p><p>PS: Take THAT PizzaAnalogyGuy. Cars &gt;&gt; Pizza !</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know who ever built the first car , but I 'm glad as all hell you were n't around at the time , or we 'd still be using this slow , not weather-proof and noisy piece of crap .
It probably had real leather seats , though.I 'm glad others copied his idea , and built on it.PS : Take THAT PizzaAnalogyGuy .
Cars &gt; &gt; Pizza !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know who ever built the first car, but I'm glad as all hell you weren't around at the time, or we'd still be using this slow, not weather-proof and noisy piece of crap.
It probably had real leather seats, though.I'm glad others copied his idea, and built on it.PS: Take THAT PizzaAnalogyGuy.
Cars &gt;&gt; Pizza !</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387298</id>
	<title>Re:Culture vs Consumerism</title>
	<author>mdwh2</author>
	<datestamp>1260455820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If that's your attitude, then don't - the rest of the world will happily tick along, with people having ideas and getting along fine, without worrying about them getting sued because you claim you had the idea first.</p><p>It's sad that some people and companies behave like 12 year olds - "Wah! You can't do that, that's my idea!" said the schoolkid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If that 's your attitude , then do n't - the rest of the world will happily tick along , with people having ideas and getting along fine , without worrying about them getting sued because you claim you had the idea first.It 's sad that some people and companies behave like 12 year olds - " Wah !
You ca n't do that , that 's my idea !
" said the schoolkid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If that's your attitude, then don't - the rest of the world will happily tick along, with people having ideas and getting along fine, without worrying about them getting sued because you claim you had the idea first.It's sad that some people and companies behave like 12 year olds - "Wah!
You can't do that, that's my idea!
" said the schoolkid.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30392546</id>
	<title>Re:Culture vs Consumerism</title>
	<author>10101001 10101001</author>
	<datestamp>1260476400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The fact that [copyright/trademarks] are being extended for well beyond their original intended life span is what's wrong with the system. I blame Disney.</p></div></blockquote><p>Personally, I blame Mark Twain*.</p><p>*In short, Mark Twain in having a successful authorship since a relatively young age, didn't like how his earlier works were going public domain and publishers stopped paying him royalties.  The fact that publishers now have even more power over copyrighted works, generally, just shows what happens when a great motivational speaker is horrible with economics**.</p><p>**Mark Twain had to do motivational speaking/lecturing because he wanted to live extravagantly outside of his means.  More to the point, publishers are near immortal (if nothing else, when one publisher does fail another one will buy out the rights of any copyrighted works they control worth controlling), and given the prospected of potentially paying an author for many years more due to a copyright extension, publishers will bargain down yearly royalty rates under the excuse that royalties become a sort of de facto pension.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The fact that [ copyright/trademarks ] are being extended for well beyond their original intended life span is what 's wrong with the system .
I blame Disney.Personally , I blame Mark Twain * .
* In short , Mark Twain in having a successful authorship since a relatively young age , did n't like how his earlier works were going public domain and publishers stopped paying him royalties .
The fact that publishers now have even more power over copyrighted works , generally , just shows what happens when a great motivational speaker is horrible with economics * * .
* * Mark Twain had to do motivational speaking/lecturing because he wanted to live extravagantly outside of his means .
More to the point , publishers are near immortal ( if nothing else , when one publisher does fail another one will buy out the rights of any copyrighted works they control worth controlling ) , and given the prospected of potentially paying an author for many years more due to a copyright extension , publishers will bargain down yearly royalty rates under the excuse that royalties become a sort of de facto pension .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fact that [copyright/trademarks] are being extended for well beyond their original intended life span is what's wrong with the system.
I blame Disney.Personally, I blame Mark Twain*.
*In short, Mark Twain in having a successful authorship since a relatively young age, didn't like how his earlier works were going public domain and publishers stopped paying him royalties.
The fact that publishers now have even more power over copyrighted works, generally, just shows what happens when a great motivational speaker is horrible with economics**.
**Mark Twain had to do motivational speaking/lecturing because he wanted to live extravagantly outside of his means.
More to the point, publishers are near immortal (if nothing else, when one publisher does fail another one will buy out the rights of any copyrighted works they control worth controlling), and given the prospected of potentially paying an author for many years more due to a copyright extension, publishers will bargain down yearly royalty rates under the excuse that royalties become a sort of de facto pension.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387050</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386966</id>
	<title>Re:Clones should be abhorred</title>
	<author>shish</author>
	<datestamp>1260452760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>GIMP is one</p></div><p>Last I checked the GIMP developers were trying to be innovative, but all the users were screaming "No! Everything must work exactly the same way it does in photoshop!"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-P</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>GIMP is oneLast I checked the GIMP developers were trying to be innovative , but all the users were screaming " No !
Everything must work exactly the same way it does in photoshop !
" : -P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GIMP is oneLast I checked the GIMP developers were trying to be innovative, but all the users were screaming "No!
Everything must work exactly the same way it does in photoshop!
" :-P
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386934</id>
	<title>Clones should be welcomed</title>
	<author>rcastro0</author>
	<datestamp>1260452460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Is that cloning or theft? Should clones be welcomed or abhorred?"</p><p>Easy. Clones should be welcomed.</p><p>1) They put innovation pressure on the original, benefiting everybody.<br>2) They put price pressure on the original, benefiting everybody.<br>3) They may create a better platform, a better product than the original, benefiting everybody.</p><p>Everybody wins. Except when you look at the motivation to create original products in the first place. Will the clones lower the reward and make it less beneficial to be original?</p><p>Hardly.</p><p>1) A truly original and inovative product will take some time to clone -- there will be a lead, in which user base/fan base/multiplayer communities should create critical mass.<br>2) Playing it right, the original *will* have goodwill. In other words, all things being fairly equal, people will likely stay with the original.<br>3) Originality is a scale, not a binary concept. Games are more or less original. Per (2) above, clones will need to compete in originality just like their inspiration did. When each clone out of many tries to be a little more original than the next, they may arrive at a quite original game, per Darwin. This could happen even though they started off at a lower plateau of originality than the concept originator. Think StarCraft.<br>4) In this sense, everyone is (or must be) original to be relevant. Originality is not at risk.</p><p>I hope that didn't sound too confusing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Is that cloning or theft ?
Should clones be welcomed or abhorred ? " Easy .
Clones should be welcomed.1 ) They put innovation pressure on the original , benefiting everybody.2 ) They put price pressure on the original , benefiting everybody.3 ) They may create a better platform , a better product than the original , benefiting everybody.Everybody wins .
Except when you look at the motivation to create original products in the first place .
Will the clones lower the reward and make it less beneficial to be original ? Hardly.1 ) A truly original and inovative product will take some time to clone -- there will be a lead , in which user base/fan base/multiplayer communities should create critical mass.2 ) Playing it right , the original * will * have goodwill .
In other words , all things being fairly equal , people will likely stay with the original.3 ) Originality is a scale , not a binary concept .
Games are more or less original .
Per ( 2 ) above , clones will need to compete in originality just like their inspiration did .
When each clone out of many tries to be a little more original than the next , they may arrive at a quite original game , per Darwin .
This could happen even though they started off at a lower plateau of originality than the concept originator .
Think StarCraft.4 ) In this sense , everyone is ( or must be ) original to be relevant .
Originality is not at risk.I hope that did n't sound too confusing : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Is that cloning or theft?
Should clones be welcomed or abhorred?"Easy.
Clones should be welcomed.1) They put innovation pressure on the original, benefiting everybody.2) They put price pressure on the original, benefiting everybody.3) They may create a better platform, a better product than the original, benefiting everybody.Everybody wins.
Except when you look at the motivation to create original products in the first place.
Will the clones lower the reward and make it less beneficial to be original?Hardly.1) A truly original and inovative product will take some time to clone -- there will be a lead, in which user base/fan base/multiplayer communities should create critical mass.2) Playing it right, the original *will* have goodwill.
In other words, all things being fairly equal, people will likely stay with the original.3) Originality is a scale, not a binary concept.
Games are more or less original.
Per (2) above, clones will need to compete in originality just like their inspiration did.
When each clone out of many tries to be a little more original than the next, they may arrive at a quite original game, per Darwin.
This could happen even though they started off at a lower plateau of originality than the concept originator.
Think StarCraft.4) In this sense, everyone is (or must be) original to be relevant.
Originality is not at risk.I hope that didn't sound too confusing :-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386746</id>
	<title>It's copyright infringement, not theft!</title>
	<author>Anita Coney</author>
	<datestamp>1260450360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First, it's copyright infringement, not theft.  And no one can "steal" your idea because ideas cannot be owned.</p><p>Second, it's infringement if he infringed on your code, art work, or music.  If not, it's not infringement.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First , it 's copyright infringement , not theft .
And no one can " steal " your idea because ideas can not be owned.Second , it 's infringement if he infringed on your code , art work , or music .
If not , it 's not infringement .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, it's copyright infringement, not theft.
And no one can "steal" your idea because ideas cannot be owned.Second, it's infringement if he infringed on your code, art work, or music.
If not, it's not infringement.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388818</id>
	<title>Re:It's copyright infringement, not theft!</title>
	<author>Bill\_the\_Engineer</author>
	<datestamp>1260464340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think I agree with you.
</p><p>1. Making a similar product is completely legal unless it violates those pesky software patents (which should be abhorred).
</p><p>2. If you copy code or images from the original to make the derivative then that is copyright infringement and not what you would call theft.
</p><p>#2 above was decided by a ruling Dowley v. US back in 1985.
</p><p>The problem I have with "copyright infringement is not theft" argument is that it insinuates that copyright infringement is not a criminal offense. In reality it is. From wikipedia:
</p><p> <i>"The United States No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997, provides for criminal prosecution of individuals who engage in copyright infringement, even when there is no monetary profit or commercial benefit from the infringement. Maximum penalties can be five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. The NET Act also raised statutory damages by 50\%.."</i>
</p><p>While copyright infringement is NOT theft, it can still get you into serious trouble...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think I agree with you .
1. Making a similar product is completely legal unless it violates those pesky software patents ( which should be abhorred ) .
2. If you copy code or images from the original to make the derivative then that is copyright infringement and not what you would call theft .
# 2 above was decided by a ruling Dowley v. US back in 1985 .
The problem I have with " copyright infringement is not theft " argument is that it insinuates that copyright infringement is not a criminal offense .
In reality it is .
From wikipedia : " The United States No Electronic Theft Act ( NET Act ) , a federal law passed in 1997 , provides for criminal prosecution of individuals who engage in copyright infringement , even when there is no monetary profit or commercial benefit from the infringement .
Maximum penalties can be five years in prison and up to $ 250,000 in fines .
The NET Act also raised statutory damages by 50 \ % .. " While copyright infringement is NOT theft , it can still get you into serious trouble.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think I agree with you.
1. Making a similar product is completely legal unless it violates those pesky software patents (which should be abhorred).
2. If you copy code or images from the original to make the derivative then that is copyright infringement and not what you would call theft.
#2 above was decided by a ruling Dowley v. US back in 1985.
The problem I have with "copyright infringement is not theft" argument is that it insinuates that copyright infringement is not a criminal offense.
In reality it is.
From wikipedia:
 "The United States No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997, provides for criminal prosecution of individuals who engage in copyright infringement, even when there is no monetary profit or commercial benefit from the infringement.
Maximum penalties can be five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines.
The NET Act also raised statutory damages by 50\%.."
While copyright infringement is NOT theft, it can still get you into serious trouble...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386746</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30400056</id>
	<title>Re:Clones should be abhorred</title>
	<author>Shinobi</author>
	<datestamp>1260535440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you were to read my post carefully, you'll see that I made a clear distinction between cloning and inspiration, and how they are both misused.</p><p>As for your assumption that innovation and evolution only happens in competition, it is a false one. Innovation and evolution happens because of necessity, no matter if there's competition or not.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you were to read my post carefully , you 'll see that I made a clear distinction between cloning and inspiration , and how they are both misused.As for your assumption that innovation and evolution only happens in competition , it is a false one .
Innovation and evolution happens because of necessity , no matter if there 's competition or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you were to read my post carefully, you'll see that I made a clear distinction between cloning and inspiration, and how they are both misused.As for your assumption that innovation and evolution only happens in competition, it is a false one.
Innovation and evolution happens because of necessity, no matter if there's competition or not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387148</id>
	<title>Re:Culture vs Consumerism</title>
	<author>Sockatume</author>
	<datestamp>1260454560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Once upon a time, it would've been credit for having come up with a great idea, but desperate one-upmanship in the "I hate IP" game has clearly devalued that notion. Even if you have an idea, it's not your idea - it's everybody's. According to our friend up there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Once upon a time , it would 've been credit for having come up with a great idea , but desperate one-upmanship in the " I hate IP " game has clearly devalued that notion .
Even if you have an idea , it 's not your idea - it 's everybody 's .
According to our friend up there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once upon a time, it would've been credit for having come up with a great idea, but desperate one-upmanship in the "I hate IP" game has clearly devalued that notion.
Even if you have an idea, it's not your idea - it's everybody's.
According to our friend up there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386930</id>
	<title>Clones are adored.</title>
	<author>FlyingBishop</author>
	<datestamp>1260452400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Halo was a clone of every shooter that came before it. The basic mechanics haven't changed much since I first took up hmm... Hexen may have been my first shooter experience. Everything has been incremental technological improvements.</p><p>If the clone doesn't offer real value, people will play the original.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Halo was a clone of every shooter that came before it .
The basic mechanics have n't changed much since I first took up hmm... Hexen may have been my first shooter experience .
Everything has been incremental technological improvements.If the clone does n't offer real value , people will play the original .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Halo was a clone of every shooter that came before it.
The basic mechanics haven't changed much since I first took up hmm... Hexen may have been my first shooter experience.
Everything has been incremental technological improvements.If the clone doesn't offer real value, people will play the original.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386678</id>
	<title>Iteration leads to innovation</title>
	<author>Kentaree</author>
	<datestamp>1260449460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why did someone write Linux when Unix was already out there? Why was Mario created when there were already other platform games out there? It's going to get harder and harder to come out with original ideas, e.g. look at any game released in the last 10 years, you can count truly innovative ones on both hands. But yet there's still games that come out, using a tried and tested formula, that are better than the rest. If there was no cloning, we'd have very few new games coming out ever.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why did someone write Linux when Unix was already out there ?
Why was Mario created when there were already other platform games out there ?
It 's going to get harder and harder to come out with original ideas , e.g .
look at any game released in the last 10 years , you can count truly innovative ones on both hands .
But yet there 's still games that come out , using a tried and tested formula , that are better than the rest .
If there was no cloning , we 'd have very few new games coming out ever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why did someone write Linux when Unix was already out there?
Why was Mario created when there were already other platform games out there?
It's going to get harder and harder to come out with original ideas, e.g.
look at any game released in the last 10 years, you can count truly innovative ones on both hands.
But yet there's still games that come out, using a tried and tested formula, that are better than the rest.
If there was no cloning, we'd have very few new games coming out ever.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388186</id>
	<title>all games in the last 20 years are clones</title>
	<author>juenger1701</author>
	<datestamp>1260461340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>platformer = Mario<br>adventure = Zelda<br>RPG = Final Fantasy (1) [yes i know the stat system in FF goes back to old pen and paper games but i'm limiting my self to digital here]<br>FPS = wolf 3D<br>TBS = Civilization<br>RTS = Command and Conquer<br>puzzle = tetris (implied or implicit time limit and no control over what piece you get next)</p><p>make a game that takes no elements from these or any other previous then you can complain about game clones</p><p>Hint (illustrative only not saying the following don't include their own ideas):</p><p>metroid = zelda adventure mechanic + mario platforming<br>american RPGs = zelda adventure mechanic + FPS view + FF style EXP based level system</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>platformer = Marioadventure = ZeldaRPG = Final Fantasy ( 1 ) [ yes i know the stat system in FF goes back to old pen and paper games but i 'm limiting my self to digital here ] FPS = wolf 3DTBS = CivilizationRTS = Command and Conquerpuzzle = tetris ( implied or implicit time limit and no control over what piece you get next ) make a game that takes no elements from these or any other previous then you can complain about game clonesHint ( illustrative only not saying the following do n't include their own ideas ) : metroid = zelda adventure mechanic + mario platformingamerican RPGs = zelda adventure mechanic + FPS view + FF style EXP based level system</tokentext>
<sentencetext>platformer = Marioadventure = ZeldaRPG = Final Fantasy (1) [yes i know the stat system in FF goes back to old pen and paper games but i'm limiting my self to digital here]FPS = wolf 3DTBS = CivilizationRTS = Command and Conquerpuzzle = tetris (implied or implicit time limit and no control over what piece you get next)make a game that takes no elements from these or any other previous then you can complain about game clonesHint (illustrative only not saying the following don't include their own ideas):metroid = zelda adventure mechanic + mario platformingamerican RPGs = zelda adventure mechanic + FPS view + FF style EXP based level system</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388962</id>
	<title>Re:It's copyright infringement, not theft!</title>
	<author>shentino</author>
	<datestamp>1260464700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes they did, but as a practical matter, no they didn't because you can't prove it in court...which is the only way they'd ever be stopped anyway.</p><p>They'll go on and patent and copyright the shit out of what they snitched from you and then shred and burn the paper so that nobody can stop them.</p><p>Not even you, being drunk off your ass the previous night, will likely be wise to the fact that you just got ripped off big time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes they did , but as a practical matter , no they did n't because you ca n't prove it in court...which is the only way they 'd ever be stopped anyway.They 'll go on and patent and copyright the shit out of what they snitched from you and then shred and burn the paper so that nobody can stop them.Not even you , being drunk off your ass the previous night , will likely be wise to the fact that you just got ripped off big time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes they did, but as a practical matter, no they didn't because you can't prove it in court...which is the only way they'd ever be stopped anyway.They'll go on and patent and copyright the shit out of what they snitched from you and then shred and burn the paper so that nobody can stop them.Not even you, being drunk off your ass the previous night, will likely be wise to the fact that you just got ripped off big time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386974</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388108</id>
	<title>Ketara (makers of Aquatica) have apologized</title>
	<author>Francis</author>
	<datestamp>1260460980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I haven't seen this mentioned yet - Ketara, the makers of Aquatica, have credited Jason Chen, creator of flOw, with the concept. On their website, they explain that they intended no disrespect, and have apologized for it. They viewed Aquatica as a fan remake.</p><p>Because of the controversy it caused, they have removed Aquatica from the app store - it is no longer available.</p><p><a href="http://www.ketara.ca/aqua.html" title="ketara.ca">http://www.ketara.ca/aqua.html</a> [ketara.ca]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have n't seen this mentioned yet - Ketara , the makers of Aquatica , have credited Jason Chen , creator of flOw , with the concept .
On their website , they explain that they intended no disrespect , and have apologized for it .
They viewed Aquatica as a fan remake.Because of the controversy it caused , they have removed Aquatica from the app store - it is no longer available.http : //www.ketara.ca/aqua.html [ ketara.ca ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I haven't seen this mentioned yet - Ketara, the makers of Aquatica, have credited Jason Chen, creator of flOw, with the concept.
On their website, they explain that they intended no disrespect, and have apologized for it.
They viewed Aquatica as a fan remake.Because of the controversy it caused, they have removed Aquatica from the app store - it is no longer available.http://www.ketara.ca/aqua.html [ketara.ca]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386978</id>
	<title>Re:Culture vs Consumerism</title>
	<author>shish</author>
	<datestamp>1260452940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You don't own that idea, it belongs to the ages.</p></div><p>So what motivation is there for anyone to come up with any new ideas?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't own that idea , it belongs to the ages.So what motivation is there for anyone to come up with any new ideas ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't own that idea, it belongs to the ages.So what motivation is there for anyone to come up with any new ideas?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388764</id>
	<title>Re:No, it's plagiarism not copyright infringement</title>
	<author>daveime</author>
	<datestamp>1260464100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As far as I was taught, plagiarism means "copying verbatim" the *entire work* without giving a citation to the original author<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... he didn't copy verbatim, there *are* differences<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... albeit you have to look bloody hard to find them.</p><p>It's the difference between doing CTRL-C, CTRL-V and rewriting something very similar, but in your own words. The first is plagiarism, the second is not.</p><p>Otherwise you might as well accuse Tolkein of "plagiarising" Norse mythology.<br>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as I was taught , plagiarism means " copying verbatim " the * entire work * without giving a citation to the original author ... he did n't copy verbatim , there * are * differences ... albeit you have to look bloody hard to find them.It 's the difference between doing CTRL-C , CTRL-V and rewriting something very similar , but in your own words .
The first is plagiarism , the second is not.Otherwise you might as well accuse Tolkein of " plagiarising " Norse mythology .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as I was taught, plagiarism means "copying verbatim" the *entire work* without giving a citation to the original author ... he didn't copy verbatim, there *are* differences ... albeit you have to look bloody hard to find them.It's the difference between doing CTRL-C, CTRL-V and rewriting something very similar, but in your own words.
The first is plagiarism, the second is not.Otherwise you might as well accuse Tolkein of "plagiarising" Norse mythology.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387794</id>
	<title>Re:Clones should be abhorred</title>
	<author>Jesus\_666</author>
	<datestamp>1260459060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Clones are not neccessarily pointless, even if we assume that no new features are added. One instance of good clones is when the clone brings a game to platforms it wasn't originally released for.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Clones are not neccessarily pointless , even if we assume that no new features are added .
One instance of good clones is when the clone brings a game to platforms it was n't originally released for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Clones are not neccessarily pointless, even if we assume that no new features are added.
One instance of good clones is when the clone brings a game to platforms it wasn't originally released for.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30398306</id>
	<title>Aren't all FPSs out there just Doom clones?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260465180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>At what point do clones represent a genre?

Reference Material: <a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news\_index.php?story=25003" title="gamasutra.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news\_index.php?story=25003</a> [gamasutra.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>At what point do clones represent a genre ?
Reference Material : http : //www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news \ _index.php ? story = 25003 [ gamasutra.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At what point do clones represent a genre?
Reference Material: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news\_index.php?story=25003 [gamasutra.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387060</id>
	<title>Re:Culture vs Consumerism</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260453780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>EXACTLY!! Why would anyone spend their life creating new ideas if the moment they finished it the work 'belonged to the ages' and they starved?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>EXACTLY ! !
Why would anyone spend their life creating new ideas if the moment they finished it the work 'belonged to the ages ' and they starved ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>EXACTLY!!
Why would anyone spend their life creating new ideas if the moment they finished it the work 'belonged to the ages' and they starved?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386610</id>
	<title>Should clones be welcomed or abhorred?</title>
	<author>ubrgeek</author>
	<datestamp>1260448320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I, for one, welcome our clone overlords.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I , for one , welcome our clone overlords .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I, for one, welcome our clone overlords.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30391154</id>
	<title>Funny thing</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1260471420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The industries most adamant about copyright are also the ones that crank out the most knock-offs and me-toos. Of course, the game industry is not yet as bad as the movie industry. In the movie industry, they have the process of creating knock-offs and me-toos so refined that the copy frequently gets released BEFORE the original. Of course, often enough, even the "original" is actually yet another movie about X.</p><p>The RIAA is at the same time more subtle and more blatant. They don't clone songs, they clone "artists" to the point that they're practically interchangable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The industries most adamant about copyright are also the ones that crank out the most knock-offs and me-toos .
Of course , the game industry is not yet as bad as the movie industry .
In the movie industry , they have the process of creating knock-offs and me-toos so refined that the copy frequently gets released BEFORE the original .
Of course , often enough , even the " original " is actually yet another movie about X.The RIAA is at the same time more subtle and more blatant .
They do n't clone songs , they clone " artists " to the point that they 're practically interchangable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The industries most adamant about copyright are also the ones that crank out the most knock-offs and me-toos.
Of course, the game industry is not yet as bad as the movie industry.
In the movie industry, they have the process of creating knock-offs and me-toos so refined that the copy frequently gets released BEFORE the original.
Of course, often enough, even the "original" is actually yet another movie about X.The RIAA is at the same time more subtle and more blatant.
They don't clone songs, they clone "artists" to the point that they're practically interchangable.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387816</id>
	<title>Re:Culture vs Consumerism</title>
	<author>JohnBailey</author>
	<datestamp>1260459180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So what motivation is there for anyone to come up with any new ideas?

Where do you get the idea that there are new ideas?</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So what motivation is there for anyone to come up with any new ideas ?
Where do you get the idea that there are new ideas ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what motivation is there for anyone to come up with any new ideas?
Where do you get the idea that there are new ideas?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30393880</id>
	<title>Re:all games in the last 20 years are clones</title>
	<author>Whorhay</author>
	<datestamp>1260438360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even some of those games weren't completely original.</p><p>The King's Quest games started before the release of Zelda and are more of a true adventure game. Zelda is a good combination of Adventure and Platformer.</p><p>As someone else said Dune 2 was what C&amp;C was based on, and I'm pretty sure I've read before that Dune 2 wasn't actually the first in the RTS either.</p><p>I remember playing a number of turn based strategy games before Civilization was released. Empire Deluxe was the first version I played but it was originally created in 1977.</p><p>There were graphical RPG's around in 1975. Rogue was out in 1980, Final Fantasy didn't come along until 1987.</p><p>But yeah, there isn't very much really original stuff, at least not in the form of whole genre's. The inovation is almost always along the lines of improving an existing implementation, combining features to produce something new, and very rarely coming up with some wholly new minor feature.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even some of those games were n't completely original.The King 's Quest games started before the release of Zelda and are more of a true adventure game .
Zelda is a good combination of Adventure and Platformer.As someone else said Dune 2 was what C&amp;C was based on , and I 'm pretty sure I 've read before that Dune 2 was n't actually the first in the RTS either.I remember playing a number of turn based strategy games before Civilization was released .
Empire Deluxe was the first version I played but it was originally created in 1977.There were graphical RPG 's around in 1975 .
Rogue was out in 1980 , Final Fantasy did n't come along until 1987.But yeah , there is n't very much really original stuff , at least not in the form of whole genre 's .
The inovation is almost always along the lines of improving an existing implementation , combining features to produce something new , and very rarely coming up with some wholly new minor feature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even some of those games weren't completely original.The King's Quest games started before the release of Zelda and are more of a true adventure game.
Zelda is a good combination of Adventure and Platformer.As someone else said Dune 2 was what C&amp;C was based on, and I'm pretty sure I've read before that Dune 2 wasn't actually the first in the RTS either.I remember playing a number of turn based strategy games before Civilization was released.
Empire Deluxe was the first version I played but it was originally created in 1977.There were graphical RPG's around in 1975.
Rogue was out in 1980, Final Fantasy didn't come along until 1987.But yeah, there isn't very much really original stuff, at least not in the form of whole genre's.
The inovation is almost always along the lines of improving an existing implementation, combining features to produce something new, and very rarely coming up with some wholly new minor feature.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388186</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30392462</id>
	<title>Re:great giana sisters !</title>
	<author>grumbel</author>
	<datestamp>1260476040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In this case the clone was banned</p></div><p>Fun part is that the sequel, "Giana Sisters DS" now happens to be a normal licensed DS game. And Giana Sisters wasn't the only clone, Rainbow Arts business model was based on doing clones, Turrican was a Metroid clone and Katakis was an R-Type clone, which happened to be so good, that they where hired to do the official R-Type port.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In this case the clone was bannedFun part is that the sequel , " Giana Sisters DS " now happens to be a normal licensed DS game .
And Giana Sisters was n't the only clone , Rainbow Arts business model was based on doing clones , Turrican was a Metroid clone and Katakis was an R-Type clone , which happened to be so good , that they where hired to do the official R-Type port .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In this case the clone was bannedFun part is that the sequel, "Giana Sisters DS" now happens to be a normal licensed DS game.
And Giana Sisters wasn't the only clone, Rainbow Arts business model was based on doing clones, Turrican was a Metroid clone and Katakis was an R-Type clone, which happened to be so good, that they where hired to do the official R-Type port.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387050</id>
	<title>Re:Culture vs Consumerism</title>
	<author>TheKidWho</author>
	<datestamp>1260453660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Only temporary monopolies called Trademarks and Copyrights.</p><p>The fact that they are being extended for well beyond their original intended life span is what's wrong with the system.  I blame Disney.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Only temporary monopolies called Trademarks and Copyrights.The fact that they are being extended for well beyond their original intended life span is what 's wrong with the system .
I blame Disney .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only temporary monopolies called Trademarks and Copyrights.The fact that they are being extended for well beyond their original intended life span is what's wrong with the system.
I blame Disney.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387560</id>
	<title>Re:Clones should be welcomed</title>
	<author>Sockatume</author>
	<datestamp>1260457380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mitchell's Puzzloop strikes me as a counterexample - it simply can't compete with the derivitive Zuma's mindshare, which certainly doesn't benefit Mitchell, and leaves Popcap with little incentive to improve their title further. I'm sure we can all agree that a straight copy which outcompetes the original by luck or marketing alone is tragic for the originator.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mitchell 's Puzzloop strikes me as a counterexample - it simply ca n't compete with the derivitive Zuma 's mindshare , which certainly does n't benefit Mitchell , and leaves Popcap with little incentive to improve their title further .
I 'm sure we can all agree that a straight copy which outcompetes the original by luck or marketing alone is tragic for the originator .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mitchell's Puzzloop strikes me as a counterexample - it simply can't compete with the derivitive Zuma's mindshare, which certainly doesn't benefit Mitchell, and leaves Popcap with little incentive to improve their title further.
I'm sure we can all agree that a straight copy which outcompetes the original by luck or marketing alone is tragic for the originator.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387190</id>
	<title>Re:Glass houses and all</title>
	<author>10Neon</author>
	<datestamp>1260454920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Spore had barely been announced when flOw was released.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Spore had barely been announced when flOw was released .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Spore had barely been announced when flOw was released.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386706</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386974</id>
	<title>Re:It's copyright infringement, not theft!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260452880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>what about if you have an idea whilst drunk, write it down and forget about it. somebody comes and takes that piece of paper. have they stolen your idea?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>what about if you have an idea whilst drunk , write it down and forget about it .
somebody comes and takes that piece of paper .
have they stolen your idea ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what about if you have an idea whilst drunk, write it down and forget about it.
somebody comes and takes that piece of paper.
have they stolen your idea?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386746</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388656</id>
	<title>That is why you failed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260463680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And that is what is hurting GIMP and most other OSS projects from actually become more than just a clone.</p><p>
&nbsp; "If I had asked my customers what they wanted," Henry Ford said, "they would have said a faster horse."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And that is what is hurting GIMP and most other OSS projects from actually become more than just a clone .
  " If I had asked my customers what they wanted , " Henry Ford said , " they would have said a faster horse .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And that is what is hurting GIMP and most other OSS projects from actually become more than just a clone.
  "If I had asked my customers what they wanted," Henry Ford said, "they would have said a faster horse.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386966</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388044</id>
	<title>Re:Clones should be welcomed</title>
	<author>I cant believe its n</author>
	<datestamp>1260460440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree with your post, but I would like to add:
<br> <br>
The question if the original creator really benefits, will depend on how much of the product is an idea and how much of it is actual implementation. Sometimes it can take years to solve a technical problem, the idea, but once the solution exists it can be understood and implemented in a much shorter time. When people are given the solution to a problem, they rarely understand how difficult it was to solve. Given the same problem and a proof stating that there is \_a\_ solution, most people would not know even where to begin.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with your post , but I would like to add : The question if the original creator really benefits , will depend on how much of the product is an idea and how much of it is actual implementation .
Sometimes it can take years to solve a technical problem , the idea , but once the solution exists it can be understood and implemented in a much shorter time .
When people are given the solution to a problem , they rarely understand how difficult it was to solve .
Given the same problem and a proof stating that there is \ _a \ _ solution , most people would not know even where to begin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with your post, but I would like to add:
 
The question if the original creator really benefits, will depend on how much of the product is an idea and how much of it is actual implementation.
Sometimes it can take years to solve a technical problem, the idea, but once the solution exists it can be understood and implemented in a much shorter time.
When people are given the solution to a problem, they rarely understand how difficult it was to solve.
Given the same problem and a proof stating that there is \_a\_ solution, most people would not know even where to begin.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387048</id>
	<title>Then you must loathe Blizzard ....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260453660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because all they did was copy the world of Games Workshop (i.e. Warhammer) and the gameplay of C&amp;C to create Warcraft. Cloning at its finest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because all they did was copy the world of Games Workshop ( i.e .
Warhammer ) and the gameplay of C&amp;C to create Warcraft .
Cloning at its finest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because all they did was copy the world of Games Workshop (i.e.
Warhammer) and the gameplay of C&amp;C to create Warcraft.
Cloning at its finest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387508</id>
	<title>Re:Clones should be welcomed</title>
	<author>lena\_10326</author>
	<datestamp>1260456960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>1) A truly original and inovative product will take some time to clone -- there will be a lead, in which user base/fan base/multiplayer communities should create critical mass.</p></div></blockquote><p>

That's not true at all. It can take a long time to develop the concept and game design before you even start implementation. For a 1 man shop doing it on his own the implementation time could be many, many times longer compared to an established corporation with an existing dev shop working to copy your concept and design. In this case, the corporation can accomplish many man hours of work in a compressed time window, produce the work, and then jump ahead of you buy pumping more dollars into deployment channels and advertising.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) A truly original and inovative product will take some time to clone -- there will be a lead , in which user base/fan base/multiplayer communities should create critical mass .
That 's not true at all .
It can take a long time to develop the concept and game design before you even start implementation .
For a 1 man shop doing it on his own the implementation time could be many , many times longer compared to an established corporation with an existing dev shop working to copy your concept and design .
In this case , the corporation can accomplish many man hours of work in a compressed time window , produce the work , and then jump ahead of you buy pumping more dollars into deployment channels and advertising .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) A truly original and inovative product will take some time to clone -- there will be a lead, in which user base/fan base/multiplayer communities should create critical mass.
That's not true at all.
It can take a long time to develop the concept and game design before you even start implementation.
For a 1 man shop doing it on his own the implementation time could be many, many times longer compared to an established corporation with an existing dev shop working to copy your concept and design.
In this case, the corporation can accomplish many man hours of work in a compressed time window, produce the work, and then jump ahead of you buy pumping more dollars into deployment channels and advertising.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386608</id>
	<title>Culture vs Consumerism</title>
	<author>QuantumG</author>
	<datestamp>1260448320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>at its finest.  "This is plagiarism!!"  No it's not, you tool, it's conversation.  Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with the world copyright has built.  You don't own that idea, it belongs to the ages.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>at its finest .
" This is plagiarism ! !
" No it 's not , you tool , it 's conversation .
Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with the world copyright has built .
You do n't own that idea , it belongs to the ages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>at its finest.
"This is plagiarism!!
"  No it's not, you tool, it's conversation.
Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with the world copyright has built.
You don't own that idea, it belongs to the ages.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388316</id>
	<title>plagiarism isn't illegal</title>
	<author>jipn4</author>
	<datestamp>1260461940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It could be a wonderful thing for both parties if presented properly. He recreated the entire game by himself thinking it wouldn't be plagiarism. However, just like a college essay, if you write down all the sentences yourself but the use of the words within these sentences are from other people's work, we consider it plagiarism.</p></div></blockquote><p>Who cares whether it's "plagiarism"?  Plagiarism isn't illegal, and in many contexts, it isn't even wrong.  Plagiarism is an academic concept, not a legal or business concept.  Ever major computer company has "plagiarized" in their products, i.e., taken ideas from others without acknowledging the source, and that's OK. In fact, this game case is probably not even plagiarism, since plagiarism means using material without acknowledging the source, and they may well have done so.  On the other hand, a lot of legally infringing activity is not plagiarism at all, so not plagiarizing does not protect you from legal claims.</p><p>In business, what matters is copyrights, patents, trademarks, and contracts.  The game could be taken down because Apple controls their app store and can do whatever they want.  If Aquatica were sold outside the app store, the flOw developer would have had to go to court and claim copyright, patent, or trademark infringement.</p><p><i> Is that cloning or theft?</i></p><p>It's theft when there is a law against it.  Did the game infringe copyrights, patents, trademarks, or did it break contracts?  If so, it's "theft".  If not, it's not "theft" in the usual legal sense, although it may still be plagiarism.</p><p>Given the similarity, I suspect that the Aquatica developer did commit copyright infringement, but that's really for a judge and jury to decide.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It could be a wonderful thing for both parties if presented properly .
He recreated the entire game by himself thinking it would n't be plagiarism .
However , just like a college essay , if you write down all the sentences yourself but the use of the words within these sentences are from other people 's work , we consider it plagiarism.Who cares whether it 's " plagiarism " ?
Plagiarism is n't illegal , and in many contexts , it is n't even wrong .
Plagiarism is an academic concept , not a legal or business concept .
Ever major computer company has " plagiarized " in their products , i.e. , taken ideas from others without acknowledging the source , and that 's OK. In fact , this game case is probably not even plagiarism , since plagiarism means using material without acknowledging the source , and they may well have done so .
On the other hand , a lot of legally infringing activity is not plagiarism at all , so not plagiarizing does not protect you from legal claims.In business , what matters is copyrights , patents , trademarks , and contracts .
The game could be taken down because Apple controls their app store and can do whatever they want .
If Aquatica were sold outside the app store , the flOw developer would have had to go to court and claim copyright , patent , or trademark infringement .
Is that cloning or theft ? It 's theft when there is a law against it .
Did the game infringe copyrights , patents , trademarks , or did it break contracts ?
If so , it 's " theft " .
If not , it 's not " theft " in the usual legal sense , although it may still be plagiarism.Given the similarity , I suspect that the Aquatica developer did commit copyright infringement , but that 's really for a judge and jury to decide .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It could be a wonderful thing for both parties if presented properly.
He recreated the entire game by himself thinking it wouldn't be plagiarism.
However, just like a college essay, if you write down all the sentences yourself but the use of the words within these sentences are from other people's work, we consider it plagiarism.Who cares whether it's "plagiarism"?
Plagiarism isn't illegal, and in many contexts, it isn't even wrong.
Plagiarism is an academic concept, not a legal or business concept.
Ever major computer company has "plagiarized" in their products, i.e., taken ideas from others without acknowledging the source, and that's OK. In fact, this game case is probably not even plagiarism, since plagiarism means using material without acknowledging the source, and they may well have done so.
On the other hand, a lot of legally infringing activity is not plagiarism at all, so not plagiarizing does not protect you from legal claims.In business, what matters is copyrights, patents, trademarks, and contracts.
The game could be taken down because Apple controls their app store and can do whatever they want.
If Aquatica were sold outside the app store, the flOw developer would have had to go to court and claim copyright, patent, or trademark infringement.
Is that cloning or theft?It's theft when there is a law against it.
Did the game infringe copyrights, patents, trademarks, or did it break contracts?
If so, it's "theft".
If not, it's not "theft" in the usual legal sense, although it may still be plagiarism.Given the similarity, I suspect that the Aquatica developer did commit copyright infringement, but that's really for a judge and jury to decide.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386706</id>
	<title>Glass houses and all</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260449760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is it me or does this look exactly like the first part of Spore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it me or does this look exactly like the first part of Spore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it me or does this look exactly like the first part of Spore.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387178</id>
	<title>It's not theft</title>
	<author>Beerduck</author>
	<datestamp>1260454800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As long as you write your own code and make your own graphics you should be allowed to create whatever you want. In this case, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" fits perfectly. Copying someone elses work also increases competition which is good for everyone, especially the gamers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As long as you write your own code and make your own graphics you should be allowed to create whatever you want .
In this case , " Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery " fits perfectly .
Copying someone elses work also increases competition which is good for everyone , especially the gamers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As long as you write your own code and make your own graphics you should be allowed to create whatever you want.
In this case, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" fits perfectly.
Copying someone elses work also increases competition which is good for everyone, especially the gamers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386782</id>
	<title>Spore</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260450780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>wow, both examples look a lot like the first part of Spore.... neither look like new ideals..</htmltext>
<tokenext>wow , both examples look a lot like the first part of Spore.... neither look like new ideals. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>wow, both examples look a lot like the first part of Spore.... neither look like new ideals..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388616</id>
	<title>Re:Clones should be welcomed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260463500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They put innovation pressure on the original, benefiting everybody.</p></div><p>A funny idea of benefiting everybody.<br>I as a 1 man team create a popular but simple game. A big corp like Blizzard decides to clone it.<br>Well it doesn't matter how much innovation pressure is on me the large team that Bliz uses to clone my app will put out a much more polished product.  My time will have been wasted to fill their coffers. If I'm unlucky several years down the road they may sue me out of existence for stealing their idea as I will not be able to afford the lawyers that they can.<br>I learn a lesson that Bliz can take my lunch any time they feel like it. I stop innovating as there is no gain for me and become a non-game-related consultant so I can afford to eat. They never innovated, so now the innovation is gone. Who benefits again?  Ah yes, the big company with the big lawyers.</p><p>Now if I was a 1 man team and another 1 man team decided to copy my game then it is going to be an interesting battle and gamers may benefit.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>They put price pressure on the original, benefiting everybody.</p></div><p>As in the previous example. I'm simply driven out of the market and will not return. Who benefits from the creative people being driven out?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>They may create a better platform, a better product than the original, benefiting everybody.</p></div><p>As in the original example, I'm betting they will. However creativity again leaves the field.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>This could happen even though they started off at a lower plateau of originality than the concept originator. Think StarCraft.</p></div><p>Blizzard was not a weakling when they released their Command and Conquer clone that was reskined with a Warhammer 40K universe. I have no idea whether Blizzard or GW were the more powerful company at the time.</p><p>I see these sort of comments and wonder if you have ever been ripped off or have just benefited from cloning. I know one of the reasons I dropped the P&amp;P SciFi RPG I had been working on for years was that one of my races had been ripped off down to the character art (OK they gave the race Orc tusks and made it put it on 'roids. Come one guys, aren't we a little tired of the GW look?). They even kept my name for the race to add insult to injury. They made it to market first so if I released I would have been the "bad guy" (on the up side their game tanked due to bad implementation. Seriously guys, a 1 page racial description with art included on that page doesn't make a tangible race people will want to play.  You may be able to steal good ideas but if all you can do is steal, your end product may not work out as well as you'd hoped). This should also be a learning experience to game devs about drinking hard with other game devs (who you do not know), at scifi conventions.</p><p>Cloning is often the art of greed and power, crushing creativity and it doesn't benefit everybody.</p><p>Posting Anon for common sense reasons.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They put innovation pressure on the original , benefiting everybody.A funny idea of benefiting everybody.I as a 1 man team create a popular but simple game .
A big corp like Blizzard decides to clone it.Well it does n't matter how much innovation pressure is on me the large team that Bliz uses to clone my app will put out a much more polished product .
My time will have been wasted to fill their coffers .
If I 'm unlucky several years down the road they may sue me out of existence for stealing their idea as I will not be able to afford the lawyers that they can.I learn a lesson that Bliz can take my lunch any time they feel like it .
I stop innovating as there is no gain for me and become a non-game-related consultant so I can afford to eat .
They never innovated , so now the innovation is gone .
Who benefits again ?
Ah yes , the big company with the big lawyers.Now if I was a 1 man team and another 1 man team decided to copy my game then it is going to be an interesting battle and gamers may benefit.They put price pressure on the original , benefiting everybody.As in the previous example .
I 'm simply driven out of the market and will not return .
Who benefits from the creative people being driven out ? They may create a better platform , a better product than the original , benefiting everybody.As in the original example , I 'm betting they will .
However creativity again leaves the field.This could happen even though they started off at a lower plateau of originality than the concept originator .
Think StarCraft.Blizzard was not a weakling when they released their Command and Conquer clone that was reskined with a Warhammer 40K universe .
I have no idea whether Blizzard or GW were the more powerful company at the time.I see these sort of comments and wonder if you have ever been ripped off or have just benefited from cloning .
I know one of the reasons I dropped the P&amp;P SciFi RPG I had been working on for years was that one of my races had been ripped off down to the character art ( OK they gave the race Orc tusks and made it put it on 'roids .
Come one guys , are n't we a little tired of the GW look ? ) .
They even kept my name for the race to add insult to injury .
They made it to market first so if I released I would have been the " bad guy " ( on the up side their game tanked due to bad implementation .
Seriously guys , a 1 page racial description with art included on that page does n't make a tangible race people will want to play .
You may be able to steal good ideas but if all you can do is steal , your end product may not work out as well as you 'd hoped ) .
This should also be a learning experience to game devs about drinking hard with other game devs ( who you do not know ) , at scifi conventions.Cloning is often the art of greed and power , crushing creativity and it does n't benefit everybody.Posting Anon for common sense reasons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They put innovation pressure on the original, benefiting everybody.A funny idea of benefiting everybody.I as a 1 man team create a popular but simple game.
A big corp like Blizzard decides to clone it.Well it doesn't matter how much innovation pressure is on me the large team that Bliz uses to clone my app will put out a much more polished product.
My time will have been wasted to fill their coffers.
If I'm unlucky several years down the road they may sue me out of existence for stealing their idea as I will not be able to afford the lawyers that they can.I learn a lesson that Bliz can take my lunch any time they feel like it.
I stop innovating as there is no gain for me and become a non-game-related consultant so I can afford to eat.
They never innovated, so now the innovation is gone.
Who benefits again?
Ah yes, the big company with the big lawyers.Now if I was a 1 man team and another 1 man team decided to copy my game then it is going to be an interesting battle and gamers may benefit.They put price pressure on the original, benefiting everybody.As in the previous example.
I'm simply driven out of the market and will not return.
Who benefits from the creative people being driven out?They may create a better platform, a better product than the original, benefiting everybody.As in the original example, I'm betting they will.
However creativity again leaves the field.This could happen even though they started off at a lower plateau of originality than the concept originator.
Think StarCraft.Blizzard was not a weakling when they released their Command and Conquer clone that was reskined with a Warhammer 40K universe.
I have no idea whether Blizzard or GW were the more powerful company at the time.I see these sort of comments and wonder if you have ever been ripped off or have just benefited from cloning.
I know one of the reasons I dropped the P&amp;P SciFi RPG I had been working on for years was that one of my races had been ripped off down to the character art (OK they gave the race Orc tusks and made it put it on 'roids.
Come one guys, aren't we a little tired of the GW look?).
They even kept my name for the race to add insult to injury.
They made it to market first so if I released I would have been the "bad guy" (on the up side their game tanked due to bad implementation.
Seriously guys, a 1 page racial description with art included on that page doesn't make a tangible race people will want to play.
You may be able to steal good ideas but if all you can do is steal, your end product may not work out as well as you'd hoped).
This should also be a learning experience to game devs about drinking hard with other game devs (who you do not know), at scifi conventions.Cloning is often the art of greed and power, crushing creativity and it doesn't benefit everybody.Posting Anon for common sense reasons.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386934</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386836</id>
	<title>Re:Clones should be abhorred</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260451320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, I don't give a damn about originality. I care about what matches my needs. Obviously a straight 1 to 1 feature clone isn't terribly interesting, but once you're there, you're probably going to want to differentiate your clone somehow, so you'll have to add improvements somewhere. That's where it gets interesting.</p><p>It fosters innovation by the virtue of competition. For instance, you make a text editor and have the idea of adding syntax highlighting. Somebody else goes and makes their own editor, also with syntax highlighting. Now you need to do something new to be a better choice, so you add code folding. Then do too, and add a spell checker. And so on. There's your fostering of innovation.</p><p>If you had the only editor in existence you wouldn't have a lot of motivation to make it better, you could just keep selling 10 year old code. But that wouldn't be very innovative.</p><p>If you're so worried about somebody else copying your idea, get off your ass and improve your.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , I do n't give a damn about originality .
I care about what matches my needs .
Obviously a straight 1 to 1 feature clone is n't terribly interesting , but once you 're there , you 're probably going to want to differentiate your clone somehow , so you 'll have to add improvements somewhere .
That 's where it gets interesting.It fosters innovation by the virtue of competition .
For instance , you make a text editor and have the idea of adding syntax highlighting .
Somebody else goes and makes their own editor , also with syntax highlighting .
Now you need to do something new to be a better choice , so you add code folding .
Then do too , and add a spell checker .
And so on .
There 's your fostering of innovation.If you had the only editor in existence you would n't have a lot of motivation to make it better , you could just keep selling 10 year old code .
But that would n't be very innovative.If you 're so worried about somebody else copying your idea , get off your ass and improve your .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, I don't give a damn about originality.
I care about what matches my needs.
Obviously a straight 1 to 1 feature clone isn't terribly interesting, but once you're there, you're probably going to want to differentiate your clone somehow, so you'll have to add improvements somewhere.
That's where it gets interesting.It fosters innovation by the virtue of competition.
For instance, you make a text editor and have the idea of adding syntax highlighting.
Somebody else goes and makes their own editor, also with syntax highlighting.
Now you need to do something new to be a better choice, so you add code folding.
Then do too, and add a spell checker.
And so on.
There's your fostering of innovation.If you had the only editor in existence you wouldn't have a lot of motivation to make it better, you could just keep selling 10 year old code.
But that wouldn't be very innovative.If you're so worried about somebody else copying your idea, get off your ass and improve your.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386722</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387736</id>
	<title>Re:Sometimes clones surpass the original</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260458700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Starcraft was NOT a clone of Comand and Conquer. Starcraft was a spin-off of the Warcraft franchise. Warcraft: Orcs and Humans was released BEFORE Comand and Conquer but was a clone of an earlier Westwood Game, Dune 2.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Starcraft was NOT a clone of Comand and Conquer .
Starcraft was a spin-off of the Warcraft franchise .
Warcraft : Orcs and Humans was released BEFORE Comand and Conquer but was a clone of an earlier Westwood Game , Dune 2 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Starcraft was NOT a clone of Comand and Conquer.
Starcraft was a spin-off of the Warcraft franchise.
Warcraft: Orcs and Humans was released BEFORE Comand and Conquer but was a clone of an earlier Westwood Game, Dune 2.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388344</id>
	<title>MANY MANY MANY</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260462120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>of these Facebook games are just rip-offs of old BBS games like Trade Wars.</p><p>Its pretty damn hard to be innovative now days.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>of these Facebook games are just rip-offs of old BBS games like Trade Wars.Its pretty damn hard to be innovative now days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>of these Facebook games are just rip-offs of old BBS games like Trade Wars.Its pretty damn hard to be innovative now days.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30388016</id>
	<title>Re:Sometimes clones surpass the original</title>
	<author>antdude</author>
	<datestamp>1260460320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bleh. I'd rather play C&amp;C games even if they are buggy and crappy online GUIs. I never got into Blizzard's RTS games' themes (good engine and graphics though).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bleh .
I 'd rather play C&amp;C games even if they are buggy and crappy online GUIs .
I never got into Blizzard 's RTS games ' themes ( good engine and graphics though ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bleh.
I'd rather play C&amp;C games even if they are buggy and crappy online GUIs.
I never got into Blizzard's RTS games' themes (good engine and graphics though).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387368</id>
	<title>Re:There's no line</title>
	<author>mdwh2</author>
	<datestamp>1260456240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Indeed, and it's good to see this response here on Slashdot. The forum Gamedev.net is a great forum for games development, but it's depressing to see that there's a lot of people there who jerk their knee at any hobby project that remotely resembles a clone. ("It's probably illegal, you'll have to get a lawyer!") Despite the fact that commercial games do it all the time.</p><p>I'm surprised no one's mentioned Civilization - it had the commercial clones such as Call To Power, and then of course there's games like FreeCiv that no one has a problem with. And Civilization itself borrowed ideas from earlier games such as Empire...</p><p>(There's was also that recent uproar over Civony, now Evony, about its bad advertising practices - the criticisms were valid, but it was a shame to see some people also deciding to add to the criticism that it was a "rip off" of Civilization. If someone brings us an online Civilization, preferably without the bad advertising, then good luck to them I say.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed , and it 's good to see this response here on Slashdot .
The forum Gamedev.net is a great forum for games development , but it 's depressing to see that there 's a lot of people there who jerk their knee at any hobby project that remotely resembles a clone .
( " It 's probably illegal , you 'll have to get a lawyer !
" ) Despite the fact that commercial games do it all the time.I 'm surprised no one 's mentioned Civilization - it had the commercial clones such as Call To Power , and then of course there 's games like FreeCiv that no one has a problem with .
And Civilization itself borrowed ideas from earlier games such as Empire... ( There 's was also that recent uproar over Civony , now Evony , about its bad advertising practices - the criticisms were valid , but it was a shame to see some people also deciding to add to the criticism that it was a " rip off " of Civilization .
If someone brings us an online Civilization , preferably without the bad advertising , then good luck to them I say .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed, and it's good to see this response here on Slashdot.
The forum Gamedev.net is a great forum for games development, but it's depressing to see that there's a lot of people there who jerk their knee at any hobby project that remotely resembles a clone.
("It's probably illegal, you'll have to get a lawyer!
") Despite the fact that commercial games do it all the time.I'm surprised no one's mentioned Civilization - it had the commercial clones such as Call To Power, and then of course there's games like FreeCiv that no one has a problem with.
And Civilization itself borrowed ideas from earlier games such as Empire...(There's was also that recent uproar over Civony, now Evony, about its bad advertising practices - the criticisms were valid, but it was a shame to see some people also deciding to add to the criticism that it was a "rip off" of Civilization.
If someone brings us an online Civilization, preferably without the bad advertising, then good luck to them I say.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386636</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386902</id>
	<title>No, it's plagiarism not copyright infringement</title>
	<author>Weezul</author>
	<datestamp>1260452160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, but plagiarism is a third word, which means taking ideas without giving credit.  Of course, plagiarism has no legal status, since plagiarism cannot be judged in court.  We nevertheless seek to take plagiarism extremely seriously and punish the most clear cases.  Punishments for plagiarism are intentionally fairly mind but highly embarrassing.</p><p>Aquatica is very clearly a flOw knock off, so Aquatica is plagiarism if and only if the author did not explain that flOw inspired him.  If the author cited flOw, then Chen should be happy for the free advertising, and get on with life.  If the author did not cite flOw, then Chen should complain to the authors employer or university about the incident of plagiarism, which should slow the authors for promotion or possibly institute academic dishonesty proceedings.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , but plagiarism is a third word , which means taking ideas without giving credit .
Of course , plagiarism has no legal status , since plagiarism can not be judged in court .
We nevertheless seek to take plagiarism extremely seriously and punish the most clear cases .
Punishments for plagiarism are intentionally fairly mind but highly embarrassing.Aquatica is very clearly a flOw knock off , so Aquatica is plagiarism if and only if the author did not explain that flOw inspired him .
If the author cited flOw , then Chen should be happy for the free advertising , and get on with life .
If the author did not cite flOw , then Chen should complain to the authors employer or university about the incident of plagiarism , which should slow the authors for promotion or possibly institute academic dishonesty proceedings .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, but plagiarism is a third word, which means taking ideas without giving credit.
Of course, plagiarism has no legal status, since plagiarism cannot be judged in court.
We nevertheless seek to take plagiarism extremely seriously and punish the most clear cases.
Punishments for plagiarism are intentionally fairly mind but highly embarrassing.Aquatica is very clearly a flOw knock off, so Aquatica is plagiarism if and only if the author did not explain that flOw inspired him.
If the author cited flOw, then Chen should be happy for the free advertising, and get on with life.
If the author did not cite flOw, then Chen should complain to the authors employer or university about the incident of plagiarism, which should slow the authors for promotion or possibly institute academic dishonesty proceedings.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386746</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30391072</id>
	<title>Re:Iteration leads to innovation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260471180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You forgot the Fallout 3 knock-offs: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen\_Earth" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Fall Earth</a> [wikipedia.org] and Borderlands.  If those aren't borderline copyright infringement, I don't know what is!  Especially fallen earth considering Bathesda Softworks was in talks to have an Fallout MMO developed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You forgot the Fallout 3 knock-offs : Fall Earth [ wikipedia.org ] and Borderlands .
If those are n't borderline copyright infringement , I do n't know what is !
Especially fallen earth considering Bathesda Softworks was in talks to have an Fallout MMO developed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You forgot the Fallout 3 knock-offs: Fall Earth [wikipedia.org] and Borderlands.
If those aren't borderline copyright infringement, I don't know what is!
Especially fallen earth considering Bathesda Softworks was in talks to have an Fallout MMO developed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387068</id>
	<title>Re:Culture vs Consumerism</title>
	<author>Weezul</author>
	<datestamp>1260453780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Aquatica is very clearly a flOw knock off, so Aquatica is plagiarism if and only if the author did not explain that flOw inspired him.</p><p>All these terms have very different meanings with very different real purposes, but all cover an aspect of "depriving the creator".</p><p>Plagiarism the closest to theft by far because plagiarism deprives the creator of the credit due for their creation.  Plagiarism has no legal status for various sound reasons, like being only indirectly tied to compensation and not being abused by large corporations, but society tries to punish it indirectly nevertheless.</p><p>Copyright exists solely to prevent those who control distribution channels from distributing works without compensating the creators.  Copyright is vastly further from theft than plagiarism since the creator has far less intrinsic right to distribution than to credit.  Copyright has legal status because (a) the criteria is fairly well defined and (b) publishers will never reward authors otherwise.  Btw, copyright is basically functioning correctly when shutting down commercial distribution channels like Napster and TPB who have no intention of compensating creators, but copyright is being grossly misused when attacking individual file sharers.</p><p>Patents exist solely to protect the investments of venture capitalists while creating new industries.  Patents are by far the furthest IP device from "theft" since they protect venture capitalists not creators.  Patents are more just a contract between society and the capitalist that says "If you fund this, then we'll grant you a monopoly for a few years."  Clearly patents have also drifted extremely far from their original purpose, now functioning more as a "currency" between businesses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Aquatica is very clearly a flOw knock off , so Aquatica is plagiarism if and only if the author did not explain that flOw inspired him.All these terms have very different meanings with very different real purposes , but all cover an aspect of " depriving the creator " .Plagiarism the closest to theft by far because plagiarism deprives the creator of the credit due for their creation .
Plagiarism has no legal status for various sound reasons , like being only indirectly tied to compensation and not being abused by large corporations , but society tries to punish it indirectly nevertheless.Copyright exists solely to prevent those who control distribution channels from distributing works without compensating the creators .
Copyright is vastly further from theft than plagiarism since the creator has far less intrinsic right to distribution than to credit .
Copyright has legal status because ( a ) the criteria is fairly well defined and ( b ) publishers will never reward authors otherwise .
Btw , copyright is basically functioning correctly when shutting down commercial distribution channels like Napster and TPB who have no intention of compensating creators , but copyright is being grossly misused when attacking individual file sharers.Patents exist solely to protect the investments of venture capitalists while creating new industries .
Patents are by far the furthest IP device from " theft " since they protect venture capitalists not creators .
Patents are more just a contract between society and the capitalist that says " If you fund this , then we 'll grant you a monopoly for a few years .
" Clearly patents have also drifted extremely far from their original purpose , now functioning more as a " currency " between businesses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Aquatica is very clearly a flOw knock off, so Aquatica is plagiarism if and only if the author did not explain that flOw inspired him.All these terms have very different meanings with very different real purposes, but all cover an aspect of "depriving the creator".Plagiarism the closest to theft by far because plagiarism deprives the creator of the credit due for their creation.
Plagiarism has no legal status for various sound reasons, like being only indirectly tied to compensation and not being abused by large corporations, but society tries to punish it indirectly nevertheless.Copyright exists solely to prevent those who control distribution channels from distributing works without compensating the creators.
Copyright is vastly further from theft than plagiarism since the creator has far less intrinsic right to distribution than to credit.
Copyright has legal status because (a) the criteria is fairly well defined and (b) publishers will never reward authors otherwise.
Btw, copyright is basically functioning correctly when shutting down commercial distribution channels like Napster and TPB who have no intention of compensating creators, but copyright is being grossly misused when attacking individual file sharers.Patents exist solely to protect the investments of venture capitalists while creating new industries.
Patents are by far the furthest IP device from "theft" since they protect venture capitalists not creators.
Patents are more just a contract between society and the capitalist that says "If you fund this, then we'll grant you a monopoly for a few years.
"  Clearly patents have also drifted extremely far from their original purpose, now functioning more as a "currency" between businesses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386608</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387900</id>
	<title>Re:Most popular?</title>
	<author>Jesus\_666</author>
	<datestamp>1260459600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Isn't FarmVille actually the clone? We had an article about that game recently and from what I could gather Farm Town preceded it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't FarmVille actually the clone ?
We had an article about that game recently and from what I could gather Farm Town preceded it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't FarmVille actually the clone?
We had an article about that game recently and from what I could gather Farm Town preceded it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30387416</parent>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_10_0559235.30386704</id>
	<title>The great pet war of 2010</title>
	<author>Flixie</author>
	<datestamp>1260449700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think 2010 will be the year of the Great Pet War. Zynga just launched Petville, a Pet Society (Playfish) clone, and although it's arguably better looking, much of its content it's also embarrassingly familiar.

<a href="http://petsocietyanonymous.com/2009/12/06/petville-vs-pet-society/" title="petsocietyanonymous.com" rel="nofollow">http://petsocietyanonymous.com/2009/12/06/petville-vs-pet-society/</a> [petsocietyanonymous.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think 2010 will be the year of the Great Pet War .
Zynga just launched Petville , a Pet Society ( Playfish ) clone , and although it 's arguably better looking , much of its content it 's also embarrassingly familiar .
http : //petsocietyanonymous.com/2009/12/06/petville-vs-pet-society/ [ petsocietyanonymous.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think 2010 will be the year of the Great Pet War.
Zynga just launched Petville, a Pet Society (Playfish) clone, and although it's arguably better looking, much of its content it's also embarrassingly familiar.
http://petsocietyanonymous.com/2009/12/06/petville-vs-pet-society/ [petsocietyanonymous.com]</sentencetext>
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