<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_09_0037228</id>
	<title>Silicon As the New Lithium</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1260352680000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="mailto:hoytduff@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">hduff</a> writes <i>"While lithium-ion batteries offer better performance than lead-acid or ni-cad batteries, the supply of lithium is limited and the batteries can <a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/story/06/07/17/1857232/Lithium-Ion-Batteries-Linked-to-Airplane-Fires&amp;tid=154">pose problems</a>. Researchers at the Technion-Israel Institute are <a href="http://www.mnn.com/technology/gadgets-electronics/blogs/silicon-the-new-lithium">building a better battery</a> with easily obtainable sand and air."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>hduff writes " While lithium-ion batteries offer better performance than lead-acid or ni-cad batteries , the supply of lithium is limited and the batteries can pose problems .
Researchers at the Technion-Israel Institute are building a better battery with easily obtainable sand and air .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hduff writes "While lithium-ion batteries offer better performance than lead-acid or ni-cad batteries, the supply of lithium is limited and the batteries can pose problems.
Researchers at the Technion-Israel Institute are building a better battery with easily obtainable sand and air.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30378040</id>
	<title>The Energizer Bunny is not gonna like this!</title>
	<author>macraig</author>
	<datestamp>1259602980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No lithium?!  Here they are talking about taking him off his meds again... it's gonna make him anxious, and you don't wanna make Bunny anxious!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No lithium ? !
Here they are talking about taking him off his meds again... it 's gon na make him anxious , and you do n't wan na make Bunny anxious !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No lithium?!
Here they are talking about taking him off his meds again... it's gonna make him anxious, and you don't wanna make Bunny anxious!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375438</id>
	<title>Deep breath and settle</title>
	<author>kramulous</author>
	<datestamp>1259579160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Phew!</p><p>I thought I was going to have to inject silicon under the skin on my shoulder.  Funny, didn't think all those implant leakages produced well adjusted, although a little quiet and drooley, bar wenches.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Phew ! I thought I was going to have to inject silicon under the skin on my shoulder .
Funny , did n't think all those implant leakages produced well adjusted , although a little quiet and drooley , bar wenches .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Phew!I thought I was going to have to inject silicon under the skin on my shoulder.
Funny, didn't think all those implant leakages produced well adjusted, although a little quiet and drooley, bar wenches.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376554</id>
	<title>Re:Call me VERY cynical, but. . .</title>
	<author>BeardedChimp</author>
	<datestamp>1259593500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As much as I despise how Israel behaves as a nation, do not mistake the actions of it's government for that of it's scientists.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As much as I despise how Israel behaves as a nation , do not mistake the actions of it 's government for that of it 's scientists .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As much as I despise how Israel behaves as a nation, do not mistake the actions of it's government for that of it's scientists.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375910</id>
	<title>But notice the caveats</title>
	<author>Ancient\_Hacker</author>
	<datestamp>1259586480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wonderful, but there are an awful lot of warning signs that this thing is not a world-beater:</p><p>*  It's not rechargeable.  And I don't know of any simple electrochemical process that reverses the oxidation of silicon.</p><p>*  It requires a Flourine-carrying  electrolyte!   Lithium is bad enuf, but Fluorine is really bad stuff.</p><p>*  Usually "air-powered" batteries are limited to very low current, slow discharge applications, such as hearing-aids.<br>So it's very unlikely these could ever work like in a laptop or car, where you need amps, not microamps.</p><p>*  Any practical and competitive battery would have to have a good power-density and be stable and manufacturable at a reasonable price.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wonderful , but there are an awful lot of warning signs that this thing is not a world-beater : * It 's not rechargeable .
And I do n't know of any simple electrochemical process that reverses the oxidation of silicon .
* It requires a Flourine-carrying electrolyte !
Lithium is bad enuf , but Fluorine is really bad stuff .
* Usually " air-powered " batteries are limited to very low current , slow discharge applications , such as hearing-aids.So it 's very unlikely these could ever work like in a laptop or car , where you need amps , not microamps .
* Any practical and competitive battery would have to have a good power-density and be stable and manufacturable at a reasonable price .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wonderful, but there are an awful lot of warning signs that this thing is not a world-beater:*  It's not rechargeable.
And I don't know of any simple electrochemical process that reverses the oxidation of silicon.
*  It requires a Flourine-carrying  electrolyte!
Lithium is bad enuf, but Fluorine is really bad stuff.
*  Usually "air-powered" batteries are limited to very low current, slow discharge applications, such as hearing-aids.So it's very unlikely these could ever work like in a laptop or car, where you need amps, not microamps.
*  Any practical and competitive battery would have to have a good power-density and be stable and manufacturable at a reasonable price.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375924</id>
	<title>Re:What about copper?</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1259586840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>There was a (temporary) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-12\_National\_Security\_Complex" title="wikipedia.org">setup</a> [wikipedia.org] along those lines at one point.<br> <br>

For Uranium isotope separation, they needed some <i>large</i> electromagnets. Unfortunately, WW2 was weighing rather heavily on the copper supply. Instead, they borrowed 13,000 tons of silver from the treasury.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There was a ( temporary ) setup [ wikipedia.org ] along those lines at one point .
For Uranium isotope separation , they needed some large electromagnets .
Unfortunately , WW2 was weighing rather heavily on the copper supply .
Instead , they borrowed 13,000 tons of silver from the treasury .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There was a (temporary) setup [wikipedia.org] along those lines at one point.
For Uranium isotope separation, they needed some large electromagnets.
Unfortunately, WW2 was weighing rather heavily on the copper supply.
Instead, they borrowed 13,000 tons of silver from the treasury.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375474</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30379752</id>
	<title>No shortage of lithium</title>
	<author>AnotherBlackHat</author>
	<datestamp>1259612280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lithium can be extracted from sea water, and even using current known methods, it would only raise the cost of lithium batteries by about 8\%.<br><a href="http://gas2.org/2008/10/13/lithium-counterpoint-no-shortage-for-electric-cars/" title="gas2.org">http://gas2.org/2008/10/13/lithium-counterpoint-no-shortage-for-electric-cars/</a> [gas2.org]</p><p>The killer problem for battery powered cars isn't weight, or energy density, it's cost.<br>The battery pack in the Tesla model S is an estimated $30,000 of it $55,000 price.</p><p>-- Should you believe authority without question?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lithium can be extracted from sea water , and even using current known methods , it would only raise the cost of lithium batteries by about 8 \ % .http : //gas2.org/2008/10/13/lithium-counterpoint-no-shortage-for-electric-cars/ [ gas2.org ] The killer problem for battery powered cars is n't weight , or energy density , it 's cost.The battery pack in the Tesla model S is an estimated $ 30,000 of it $ 55,000 price.-- Should you believe authority without question ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lithium can be extracted from sea water, and even using current known methods, it would only raise the cost of lithium batteries by about 8\%.http://gas2.org/2008/10/13/lithium-counterpoint-no-shortage-for-electric-cars/ [gas2.org]The killer problem for battery powered cars isn't weight, or energy density, it's cost.The battery pack in the Tesla model S is an estimated $30,000 of it $55,000 price.-- Should you believe authority without question?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30377062</id>
	<title>Re:What about copper?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259597220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't mean to disappoint you but... gold is so valuable exactly because its so rare.

If gold was so easy to find as cooper, most wires in the world would be made of gold and it would be cheap as cooper...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't mean to disappoint you but... gold is so valuable exactly because its so rare .
If gold was so easy to find as cooper , most wires in the world would be made of gold and it would be cheap as cooper.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't mean to disappoint you but... gold is so valuable exactly because its so rare.
If gold was so easy to find as cooper, most wires in the world would be made of gold and it would be cheap as cooper...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375474</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375608</id>
	<title>Understand how it works - and then applications</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259581860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The article does not help understand how it actually works, so I read around and went to the Technion-friends website.</p><p>Basically normal sand is Silicon-Dioxide. If you take pure silicon and build a battery from it, and expose the battery to air, the silicon will interact with the oxygen in the air. So the pure silicon will become silicon dioxide - sand. In the process, it releases energy.</p><p>The neat trick in the battery - is that they set it up so that the energy is released NOT as heat (which is the usual thing), but some of it as electricity. They do this with some kind of membrane that allows oxygen ions to flow through, but electrons must come the other way - hence an electric flow.</p><p>Like any innovation, will take some years to be fully researched and commercialized. Small batteries will probably come first, bigger ones (for cars) later. And how to recharge does not seem obvious - at least not from the description so far.</p><p>A lot of people above are skeptical - but really this kind of innovation is what science and engineering are all about. Innovation goes hand in hand with raising ever more questions; we should be used to that by now.</p><p>Really really cool. And smart. My hat off to the Israeli guys and their collaborators in USA &amp; Japan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The article does not help understand how it actually works , so I read around and went to the Technion-friends website.Basically normal sand is Silicon-Dioxide .
If you take pure silicon and build a battery from it , and expose the battery to air , the silicon will interact with the oxygen in the air .
So the pure silicon will become silicon dioxide - sand .
In the process , it releases energy.The neat trick in the battery - is that they set it up so that the energy is released NOT as heat ( which is the usual thing ) , but some of it as electricity .
They do this with some kind of membrane that allows oxygen ions to flow through , but electrons must come the other way - hence an electric flow.Like any innovation , will take some years to be fully researched and commercialized .
Small batteries will probably come first , bigger ones ( for cars ) later .
And how to recharge does not seem obvious - at least not from the description so far.A lot of people above are skeptical - but really this kind of innovation is what science and engineering are all about .
Innovation goes hand in hand with raising ever more questions ; we should be used to that by now.Really really cool .
And smart .
My hat off to the Israeli guys and their collaborators in USA &amp; Japan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article does not help understand how it actually works, so I read around and went to the Technion-friends website.Basically normal sand is Silicon-Dioxide.
If you take pure silicon and build a battery from it, and expose the battery to air, the silicon will interact with the oxygen in the air.
So the pure silicon will become silicon dioxide - sand.
In the process, it releases energy.The neat trick in the battery - is that they set it up so that the energy is released NOT as heat (which is the usual thing), but some of it as electricity.
They do this with some kind of membrane that allows oxygen ions to flow through, but electrons must come the other way - hence an electric flow.Like any innovation, will take some years to be fully researched and commercialized.
Small batteries will probably come first, bigger ones (for cars) later.
And how to recharge does not seem obvious - at least not from the description so far.A lot of people above are skeptical - but really this kind of innovation is what science and engineering are all about.
Innovation goes hand in hand with raising ever more questions; we should be used to that by now.Really really cool.
And smart.
My hat off to the Israeli guys and their collaborators in USA &amp; Japan.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376194</id>
	<title>Re:Information</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259590140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Specific Ampere hours don't tell much about the energy content, which is the crucial value in battery development.</p><p>The paper talks about a 1-1.2V battery, so we could assume it gets about 1 Wh/g or 1kWh/kg. 1 kWh = 3.6MJ, so this battery could reach about 3-4MJ/kg.</p><p>Gasoline or diesel are in the range of 40-50 MJ/kg, but the engine and ancilliaries are much heavier than a simple electric motor. This electric motor has a much higher torque than four-stroke gasoline engines and can sustain short bursts of much higher peaks, therefore 75kW would be comparable in an electric car. Assuming a common automotive power plant of 100kW weighs about 200kg complete with all liquids including 50l of gasoline, we would have 12.5MJ/kg for this common application total.</p><p>This revolutionary battery is still only a third of the power-to-weight ratio of a common automotive power plant (with an estimate probably erring some in favor of the battery). And that is without the electric motor, because I have no idea how much a 75kW specimen weighs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Specific Ampere hours do n't tell much about the energy content , which is the crucial value in battery development.The paper talks about a 1-1.2V battery , so we could assume it gets about 1 Wh/g or 1kWh/kg .
1 kWh = 3.6MJ , so this battery could reach about 3-4MJ/kg.Gasoline or diesel are in the range of 40-50 MJ/kg , but the engine and ancilliaries are much heavier than a simple electric motor .
This electric motor has a much higher torque than four-stroke gasoline engines and can sustain short bursts of much higher peaks , therefore 75kW would be comparable in an electric car .
Assuming a common automotive power plant of 100kW weighs about 200kg complete with all liquids including 50l of gasoline , we would have 12.5MJ/kg for this common application total.This revolutionary battery is still only a third of the power-to-weight ratio of a common automotive power plant ( with an estimate probably erring some in favor of the battery ) .
And that is without the electric motor , because I have no idea how much a 75kW specimen weighs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Specific Ampere hours don't tell much about the energy content, which is the crucial value in battery development.The paper talks about a 1-1.2V battery, so we could assume it gets about 1 Wh/g or 1kWh/kg.
1 kWh = 3.6MJ, so this battery could reach about 3-4MJ/kg.Gasoline or diesel are in the range of 40-50 MJ/kg, but the engine and ancilliaries are much heavier than a simple electric motor.
This electric motor has a much higher torque than four-stroke gasoline engines and can sustain short bursts of much higher peaks, therefore 75kW would be comparable in an electric car.
Assuming a common automotive power plant of 100kW weighs about 200kg complete with all liquids including 50l of gasoline, we would have 12.5MJ/kg for this common application total.This revolutionary battery is still only a third of the power-to-weight ratio of a common automotive power plant (with an estimate probably erring some in favor of the battery).
And that is without the electric motor, because I have no idea how much a 75kW specimen weighs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30379194</id>
	<title>Re:Summary</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1259609100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If it holds enough electricuty, it doesn't need to be rechaarble. You just go to the battery replacement station and get new ones.</p><p>Even if it can 'only' scale to small batteries. Imagine no more batteries tossed into landfills.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it holds enough electricuty , it does n't need to be rechaarble .
You just go to the battery replacement station and get new ones.Even if it can 'only ' scale to small batteries .
Imagine no more batteries tossed into landfills .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it holds enough electricuty, it doesn't need to be rechaarble.
You just go to the battery replacement station and get new ones.Even if it can 'only' scale to small batteries.
Imagine no more batteries tossed into landfills.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375620</id>
	<title>(Electro-)Chemistry is quite fuzzy</title>
	<author>Jack Malmostoso</author>
	<datestamp>1259581980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have read the original publication (doi:10.1016/j.elecom.2009.08.015) and cannot understand much of the (electro-)chemistry of it.<br>The electrode potential is strongly dependent on the doping of the silicon, which makes sense, but the I/V curve looks less than impressive. It's mostly a bad fuel cell, at the moment.<br>Also, the chemistry of the electrolyte is not clear to me. In principle the battery should work according to dissolution of Si from the anode, transport through the electrolyte (an ionic liquid with fluorine) and reaction with oxygen at the air cathode. The researchers claim that they observe a white deposit at the cathode, and that this deposit is SiO2.<br>Silicon-fluorine chemistry is quite complicated, IIRC, and I cannot for the life of me imagine transport of Si4+ ions in the electrolyte. Also, HF as such does not dissolve Si, but it need some strong acid to start the etching. How this phenomenon can happen in the ionic liquid is beyond me.</p><p>Also, in the introduction, the researchers claim that the battery has an "infinite shelf life", but then talk about corrosion currents in the paper. If there is corrosion (i.e. self discharge), then the shelf life is quite limited.<br>Cherry on top, they claim that SiO2 is easily reducible to reobtain Si. I am not familiar with silicon metallurgy, but I am not sure it is easy to do it electrochemically, let alone replate Si at the anode upon recharge.<br>On the plus side, they used metallurgical grade Si, which is dirt cheap when compared to semiconductor grade Si.</p><p>I would love for this to work, but at the moment the authors have omitted quite a bit of information. If I were the referee, I would have asked at least the questions above. Think of it, there is a corresponding author for a reason.</p><p>Disclaimer: I work in battery research, and I am hence jealous that they made it to the front page of Slashdot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have read the original publication ( doi : 10.1016/j.elecom.2009.08.015 ) and can not understand much of the ( electro- ) chemistry of it.The electrode potential is strongly dependent on the doping of the silicon , which makes sense , but the I/V curve looks less than impressive .
It 's mostly a bad fuel cell , at the moment.Also , the chemistry of the electrolyte is not clear to me .
In principle the battery should work according to dissolution of Si from the anode , transport through the electrolyte ( an ionic liquid with fluorine ) and reaction with oxygen at the air cathode .
The researchers claim that they observe a white deposit at the cathode , and that this deposit is SiO2.Silicon-fluorine chemistry is quite complicated , IIRC , and I can not for the life of me imagine transport of Si4 + ions in the electrolyte .
Also , HF as such does not dissolve Si , but it need some strong acid to start the etching .
How this phenomenon can happen in the ionic liquid is beyond me.Also , in the introduction , the researchers claim that the battery has an " infinite shelf life " , but then talk about corrosion currents in the paper .
If there is corrosion ( i.e .
self discharge ) , then the shelf life is quite limited.Cherry on top , they claim that SiO2 is easily reducible to reobtain Si .
I am not familiar with silicon metallurgy , but I am not sure it is easy to do it electrochemically , let alone replate Si at the anode upon recharge.On the plus side , they used metallurgical grade Si , which is dirt cheap when compared to semiconductor grade Si.I would love for this to work , but at the moment the authors have omitted quite a bit of information .
If I were the referee , I would have asked at least the questions above .
Think of it , there is a corresponding author for a reason.Disclaimer : I work in battery research , and I am hence jealous that they made it to the front page of Slashdot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have read the original publication (doi:10.1016/j.elecom.2009.08.015) and cannot understand much of the (electro-)chemistry of it.The electrode potential is strongly dependent on the doping of the silicon, which makes sense, but the I/V curve looks less than impressive.
It's mostly a bad fuel cell, at the moment.Also, the chemistry of the electrolyte is not clear to me.
In principle the battery should work according to dissolution of Si from the anode, transport through the electrolyte (an ionic liquid with fluorine) and reaction with oxygen at the air cathode.
The researchers claim that they observe a white deposit at the cathode, and that this deposit is SiO2.Silicon-fluorine chemistry is quite complicated, IIRC, and I cannot for the life of me imagine transport of Si4+ ions in the electrolyte.
Also, HF as such does not dissolve Si, but it need some strong acid to start the etching.
How this phenomenon can happen in the ionic liquid is beyond me.Also, in the introduction, the researchers claim that the battery has an "infinite shelf life", but then talk about corrosion currents in the paper.
If there is corrosion (i.e.
self discharge), then the shelf life is quite limited.Cherry on top, they claim that SiO2 is easily reducible to reobtain Si.
I am not familiar with silicon metallurgy, but I am not sure it is easy to do it electrochemically, let alone replate Si at the anode upon recharge.On the plus side, they used metallurgical grade Si, which is dirt cheap when compared to semiconductor grade Si.I would love for this to work, but at the moment the authors have omitted quite a bit of information.
If I were the referee, I would have asked at least the questions above.
Think of it, there is a corresponding author for a reason.Disclaimer: I work in battery research, and I am hence jealous that they made it to the front page of Slashdot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375770</id>
	<title>but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259584380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>what happens when we run out of sand?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>what happens when we run out of sand ?
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what happens when we run out of sand?
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375422</id>
	<title>What about copper?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259579040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't you need a lot of copper to actualyl do anything useful with a battery?</p><p>Is'nt the world reserve of copper basically mined out?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't you need a lot of copper to actualyl do anything useful with a battery ? Is'nt the world reserve of copper basically mined out ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't you need a lot of copper to actualyl do anything useful with a battery?Is'nt the world reserve of copper basically mined out?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30378014</id>
	<title>Re:What about copper?</title>
	<author>Pictish Prince</author>
	<datestamp>1259602800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Just use gold instead!</p><p>But really, we have a lot of otherwise useful metals being punted around in the form of money at the moment. We should use digital money and put the metal stuff to better use.</p></div><p>Gee, I guess the US &amp; Zimbabwe are way ahead of the curve.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just use gold instead ! But really , we have a lot of otherwise useful metals being punted around in the form of money at the moment .
We should use digital money and put the metal stuff to better use.Gee , I guess the US &amp; Zimbabwe are way ahead of the curve .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just use gold instead!But really, we have a lot of otherwise useful metals being punted around in the form of money at the moment.
We should use digital money and put the metal stuff to better use.Gee, I guess the US &amp; Zimbabwe are way ahead of the curve.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375474</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375946</id>
	<title>Re:What about copper?</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1259587080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No?</p><p>I grew up a few hundred miles from a mine that shut down because other mines were more economical. As the price goes up, that sort of mine can start operating again (if they can convince people in the area to put up with the environmental impact).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No ? I grew up a few hundred miles from a mine that shut down because other mines were more economical .
As the price goes up , that sort of mine can start operating again ( if they can convince people in the area to put up with the environmental impact ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No?I grew up a few hundred miles from a mine that shut down because other mines were more economical.
As the price goes up, that sort of mine can start operating again (if they can convince people in the area to put up with the environmental impact).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375516</id>
	<title>Lithium limited?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259580120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>According to <a href="http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1035532\_no-looming-lithium-shortage-for-evs" title="allcarselectric.com">the All Cars Electric blog</a> [allcarselectric.com] there is no looming shortage of lithium.  From the article:<blockquote><div><p>Gerson Lehrman Group, a New York consulting firm, estimates that even if 500,000 cars powered by lithium ion batteries were produced in 2015, they would use less than 10 percent of last year's global lithium output. And global output continues to climb.</p></div></blockquote><p>

And there is the fact that salt water has lithium.  In fact, <a href="http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/08/mining-company/" title="wired.com">some startups are trying to extract it now</a> [wired.com].  If the price goes high enough, it will be practical to extract lithium from the ocean.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>According to the All Cars Electric blog [ allcarselectric.com ] there is no looming shortage of lithium .
From the article : Gerson Lehrman Group , a New York consulting firm , estimates that even if 500,000 cars powered by lithium ion batteries were produced in 2015 , they would use less than 10 percent of last year 's global lithium output .
And global output continues to climb .
And there is the fact that salt water has lithium .
In fact , some startups are trying to extract it now [ wired.com ] .
If the price goes high enough , it will be practical to extract lithium from the ocean .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to the All Cars Electric blog [allcarselectric.com] there is no looming shortage of lithium.
From the article:Gerson Lehrman Group, a New York consulting firm, estimates that even if 500,000 cars powered by lithium ion batteries were produced in 2015, they would use less than 10 percent of last year's global lithium output.
And global output continues to climb.
And there is the fact that salt water has lithium.
In fact, some startups are trying to extract it now [wired.com].
If the price goes high enough, it will be practical to extract lithium from the ocean.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375498</id>
	<title>Natrium batteries</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259579820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Chemically very similar to Lithium. Plenty of Natrium around.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Chemically very similar to Lithium .
Plenty of Natrium around .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Chemically very similar to Lithium.
Plenty of Natrium around.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375704</id>
	<title>Re:What about copper?</title>
	<author>worip</author>
	<datestamp>1259583060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Never mind copper, what about lithium? Lithium is about as abundant as Nickel in the earth's crust: From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow"> Lithium's wikipedia entry </a> [wikipedia.org] -&gt; <p><div class="quote"><p>At 20 mg lithium per kg of Earth's crust, lithium is the 25th most abundant element. Nickel and lead have the about the same abundance</p></div><p>Not apparently a crisis, although it might be more expensive to mine due to the use of electrolysis.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Never mind copper , what about lithium ?
Lithium is about as abundant as Nickel in the earth 's crust : From Lithium 's wikipedia entry [ wikipedia.org ] - &gt; At 20 mg lithium per kg of Earth 's crust , lithium is the 25th most abundant element .
Nickel and lead have the about the same abundanceNot apparently a crisis , although it might be more expensive to mine due to the use of electrolysis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Never mind copper, what about lithium?
Lithium is about as abundant as Nickel in the earth's crust: From  Lithium's wikipedia entry  [wikipedia.org] -&gt; At 20 mg lithium per kg of Earth's crust, lithium is the 25th most abundant element.
Nickel and lead have the about the same abundanceNot apparently a crisis, although it might be more expensive to mine due to the use of electrolysis.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376416</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing/advert submissions</title>
	<author>mr crypto</author>
	<datestamp>1259592540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seconded again.  It seems like new energy technologies are announced at around one per week, and they invariably use "could", "might", "hope" and other terms for "it is not proven but we want more money for research".  Everyone is hoping for a silver bullet, but continuation of these articles just breeds cynicism.</p><p>We need a Slashdot tag for these, something like "hopeful".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seconded again .
It seems like new energy technologies are announced at around one per week , and they invariably use " could " , " might " , " hope " and other terms for " it is not proven but we want more money for research " .
Everyone is hoping for a silver bullet , but continuation of these articles just breeds cynicism.We need a Slashdot tag for these , something like " hopeful " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seconded again.
It seems like new energy technologies are announced at around one per week, and they invariably use "could", "might", "hope" and other terms for "it is not proven but we want more money for research".
Everyone is hoping for a silver bullet, but continuation of these articles just breeds cynicism.We need a Slashdot tag for these, something like "hopeful".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376238</id>
	<title>Call me VERY cynical, but. . .</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259590740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wouldn't put it past the Israeli psyops people to pull a stunt like this.</p><p>Please follow the logic.</p><p>1. "We're taking a beating in public relations as a nation.  What with the whole deliberately bombing civilians, <a href="http://www.imemc.org/index.php?obj\_id=53&amp;story\_id=56927" title="imemc.org" rel="nofollow">bulldozing homes</a> [imemc.org], <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/06/isarel-gaza-patients-accusation-interrogation" title="guardian.co.uk" rel="nofollow">withholding vital medical care from those who don't agree to become snitches</a> [guardian.co.uk], and perhaps the creepiest of the lot, <a href="http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/321-2009-november/6602-israeli-organ-trafficking-and-theft-from-moldova-to-palestine.html" title="wrmea.org" rel="nofollow">abduction and organ harvesting.</a> [wrmea.org]  --Yes we can control the real press no problem, (have you heard those stories given full coverage in the "real" news?), but this internet nuisance. . !  It's out of our control.  We tried a massive astro-turfing campaign with demonstrably false talking points (thank-you Jon Stewart for being the only guy in television land for having the gonads to point them out.) while we were bombing Palestine last holiday season, but when people are able to get together on the unrestricted internet and were able to discuss things in forum rather than simply stare at a CRT and nod like zombies, our evil toxic bullshit PR threatened to not be 100\% effective.  We need to control this internet!"</p><p>2. "What is the most vital, most exciting, most anticipated technological breakthrough that people closely associated with the internet have been wishing for?  Ah yes.  Good battery tech."</p><p>3. "Subtle message; keep us safe from repercussions resulting from our numerous crimes against humanity.  (The abused sickeningly often turns into the abuser, and in the case of Israel, it's just a typical example.  The West Bank IS a concentration camp.)  --But just hold off for another 5 years, because if you turn on us now, you won't get these marvelous batteries which can make your laptops last forever, and did we forget to mention, they can also save the world from automotive greenhouse pollution?  <b>Copenhagen what?  No that's just random timing, honest!"</b></p><p>4. "Profit."</p><p>Hm.  Actually, now that I think my way through this, it just seems fishier and fishier.  Why is the word "Israel" built into the company name?  This smells of a psy-ops play for mind share.  --Hardly surprising for the only country on the planet which was able to organize a giant astro-turfing campaign to bolster world-wide support for war crimes and atrocities during the so-called "Cast lead" where the IDF used phosphorus on civilian targets.  For crying out loud!</p><p>Sorry, Israel.  I could care less about your religion, (or any religion, for that matter), but your government is evil and like Germany, the world is letting you get away with it.  Heck, worse, the US is <i>funding</i> the damned thing.</p><p>So, sorry, no, I don't think your oh-so-innocent battery story making headlines is what it says it is.</p><p>-FL</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't put it past the Israeli psyops people to pull a stunt like this.Please follow the logic.1 .
" We 're taking a beating in public relations as a nation .
What with the whole deliberately bombing civilians , bulldozing homes [ imemc.org ] , withholding vital medical care from those who do n't agree to become snitches [ guardian.co.uk ] , and perhaps the creepiest of the lot , abduction and organ harvesting .
[ wrmea.org ] --Yes we can control the real press no problem , ( have you heard those stories given full coverage in the " real " news ?
) , but this internet nuisance .
. !
It 's out of our control .
We tried a massive astro-turfing campaign with demonstrably false talking points ( thank-you Jon Stewart for being the only guy in television land for having the gonads to point them out .
) while we were bombing Palestine last holiday season , but when people are able to get together on the unrestricted internet and were able to discuss things in forum rather than simply stare at a CRT and nod like zombies , our evil toxic bullshit PR threatened to not be 100 \ % effective .
We need to control this internet ! " 2 .
" What is the most vital , most exciting , most anticipated technological breakthrough that people closely associated with the internet have been wishing for ?
Ah yes .
Good battery tech. " 3 .
" Subtle message ; keep us safe from repercussions resulting from our numerous crimes against humanity .
( The abused sickeningly often turns into the abuser , and in the case of Israel , it 's just a typical example .
The West Bank IS a concentration camp .
) --But just hold off for another 5 years , because if you turn on us now , you wo n't get these marvelous batteries which can make your laptops last forever , and did we forget to mention , they can also save the world from automotive greenhouse pollution ?
Copenhagen what ?
No that 's just random timing , honest ! " 4 .
" Profit. " Hm. Actually , now that I think my way through this , it just seems fishier and fishier .
Why is the word " Israel " built into the company name ?
This smells of a psy-ops play for mind share .
--Hardly surprising for the only country on the planet which was able to organize a giant astro-turfing campaign to bolster world-wide support for war crimes and atrocities during the so-called " Cast lead " where the IDF used phosphorus on civilian targets .
For crying out loud ! Sorry , Israel .
I could care less about your religion , ( or any religion , for that matter ) , but your government is evil and like Germany , the world is letting you get away with it .
Heck , worse , the US is funding the damned thing.So , sorry , no , I do n't think your oh-so-innocent battery story making headlines is what it says it is.-FL</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't put it past the Israeli psyops people to pull a stunt like this.Please follow the logic.1.
"We're taking a beating in public relations as a nation.
What with the whole deliberately bombing civilians, bulldozing homes [imemc.org], withholding vital medical care from those who don't agree to become snitches [guardian.co.uk], and perhaps the creepiest of the lot, abduction and organ harvesting.
[wrmea.org]  --Yes we can control the real press no problem, (have you heard those stories given full coverage in the "real" news?
), but this internet nuisance.
. !
It's out of our control.
We tried a massive astro-turfing campaign with demonstrably false talking points (thank-you Jon Stewart for being the only guy in television land for having the gonads to point them out.
) while we were bombing Palestine last holiday season, but when people are able to get together on the unrestricted internet and were able to discuss things in forum rather than simply stare at a CRT and nod like zombies, our evil toxic bullshit PR threatened to not be 100\% effective.
We need to control this internet!"2.
"What is the most vital, most exciting, most anticipated technological breakthrough that people closely associated with the internet have been wishing for?
Ah yes.
Good battery tech."3.
"Subtle message; keep us safe from repercussions resulting from our numerous crimes against humanity.
(The abused sickeningly often turns into the abuser, and in the case of Israel, it's just a typical example.
The West Bank IS a concentration camp.
)  --But just hold off for another 5 years, because if you turn on us now, you won't get these marvelous batteries which can make your laptops last forever, and did we forget to mention, they can also save the world from automotive greenhouse pollution?
Copenhagen what?
No that's just random timing, honest!"4.
"Profit."Hm.  Actually, now that I think my way through this, it just seems fishier and fishier.
Why is the word "Israel" built into the company name?
This smells of a psy-ops play for mind share.
--Hardly surprising for the only country on the planet which was able to organize a giant astro-turfing campaign to bolster world-wide support for war crimes and atrocities during the so-called "Cast lead" where the IDF used phosphorus on civilian targets.
For crying out loud!Sorry, Israel.
I could care less about your religion, (or any religion, for that matter), but your government is evil and like Germany, the world is letting you get away with it.
Heck, worse, the US is funding the damned thing.So, sorry, no, I don't think your oh-so-innocent battery story making headlines is what it says it is.-FL</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375474</id>
	<title>Re:What about copper?</title>
	<author>somersault</author>
	<datestamp>1259579580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just use gold instead!</p><p>But really, we have a lot of otherwise useful metals being punted around in the form of money at the moment. We should use digital money and put the metal stuff to better use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just use gold instead ! But really , we have a lot of otherwise useful metals being punted around in the form of money at the moment .
We should use digital money and put the metal stuff to better use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just use gold instead!But really, we have a lot of otherwise useful metals being punted around in the form of money at the moment.
We should use digital money and put the metal stuff to better use.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375542</id>
	<title>charge my batteries</title>
	<author>Trepidity</author>
	<datestamp>1259580720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>in a daze 'cause i found juice</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>in a daze 'cause i found juice</tokentext>
<sentencetext>in a daze 'cause i found juice</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375688</id>
	<title>Re:Summary</title>
	<author>AGMW</author>
	<datestamp>1259582820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Still, it's kind of cool that you can make a battery out of sand.</p></div><p>
Yep, and to charge it you just <i>turn it over</i>!
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Still , it 's kind of cool that you can make a battery out of sand .
Yep , and to charge it you just turn it over !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Still, it's kind of cool that you can make a battery out of sand.
Yep, and to charge it you just turn it over!

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30378924</id>
	<title>Re:What about copper?</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1259607600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If Copper was running out, it would be more expensive then gold.</p><p>That said, we will just develop wires from carbon nano tubes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If Copper was running out , it would be more expensive then gold.That said , we will just develop wires from carbon nano tubes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Copper was running out, it would be more expensive then gold.That said, we will just develop wires from carbon nano tubes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375474</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376148</id>
	<title>Re:What about copper?</title>
	<author>macson\_g</author>
	<datestamp>1259589660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Is'nt the world reserve of copper basically mined out?</p></div><p>According to Wikipedia, "total amount of copper on Earth is vast (around 1014 tons just in the top kilometer of Earth's crust, or about 5 million years worth at the current rate of extraction)". Of course only small fraction of this is available using \_today's\_ technology.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is'nt the world reserve of copper basically mined out ? According to Wikipedia , " total amount of copper on Earth is vast ( around 1014 tons just in the top kilometer of Earth 's crust , or about 5 million years worth at the current rate of extraction ) " .
Of course only small fraction of this is available using \ _today 's \ _ technology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is'nt the world reserve of copper basically mined out?According to Wikipedia, "total amount of copper on Earth is vast (around 1014 tons just in the top kilometer of Earth's crust, or about 5 million years worth at the current rate of extraction)".
Of course only small fraction of this is available using \_today's\_ technology.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30379578</id>
	<title>The Saudis will always have us in the vise....</title>
	<author>jameskojiro</author>
	<datestamp>1259611200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because they won't let us use the sand we already have instead we will have to import it from those crazies....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because they wo n't let us use the sand we already have instead we will have to import it from those crazies... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because they won't let us use the sand we already have instead we will have to import it from those crazies....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375584</id>
	<title>Re:Natrium batteries</title>
	<author>Jack Malmostoso</author>
	<datestamp>1259581320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hmmm yes but no.<br>Lithium has quite the diagonal relationship with Magnesium.<br>Diffusion of Sodium is quite different than Lithium's.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmmm yes but no.Lithium has quite the diagonal relationship with Magnesium.Diffusion of Sodium is quite different than Lithium 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmmm yes but no.Lithium has quite the diagonal relationship with Magnesium.Diffusion of Sodium is quite different than Lithium's.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375498</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375538</id>
	<title>Summary</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1259580660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Still in prototype (seems he might have only made one, and he tested it for 600 hours ). Not rechargable. More powerful than current hearing aid batteries. May be made rechargable in 10 years (how on earth do people estimate this stuff? How can you estimate how long it will take to do something no one has ever done? It might not even be possible). Rumors abound. If it works out it will be great, but don't hold your breath.<br> <br>
Still, it's kind of cool that you can make a battery out of sand.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Still in prototype ( seems he might have only made one , and he tested it for 600 hours ) .
Not rechargable .
More powerful than current hearing aid batteries .
May be made rechargable in 10 years ( how on earth do people estimate this stuff ?
How can you estimate how long it will take to do something no one has ever done ?
It might not even be possible ) .
Rumors abound .
If it works out it will be great , but do n't hold your breath .
Still , it 's kind of cool that you can make a battery out of sand .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Still in prototype (seems he might have only made one, and he tested it for 600 hours ).
Not rechargable.
More powerful than current hearing aid batteries.
May be made rechargable in 10 years (how on earth do people estimate this stuff?
How can you estimate how long it will take to do something no one has ever done?
It might not even be possible).
Rumors abound.
If it works out it will be great, but don't hold your breath.
Still, it's kind of cool that you can make a battery out of sand.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30378826</id>
	<title>Re:(Electro-)Chemistry is quite fuzzy</title>
	<author>MattskEE</author>
	<datestamp>1259607180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How much HF is involved in this process?  Because that stuff can be extremely dangerous if the battery were to break or burst.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How much HF is involved in this process ?
Because that stuff can be extremely dangerous if the battery were to break or burst .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much HF is involved in this process?
Because that stuff can be extremely dangerous if the battery were to break or burst.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375620</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375482</id>
	<title>Marketing/advert submissions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259579700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While new battery technology is very important in our current time, the sheer number of duplicate stories and borderline advertisement/marketing stories on Slashdot about these new batteries, WITH a combines lithium FUD scare at the same time no less, sours these stories.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While new battery technology is very important in our current time , the sheer number of duplicate stories and borderline advertisement/marketing stories on Slashdot about these new batteries , WITH a combines lithium FUD scare at the same time no less , sours these stories .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While new battery technology is very important in our current time, the sheer number of duplicate stories and borderline advertisement/marketing stories on Slashdot about these new batteries, WITH a combines lithium FUD scare at the same time no less, sours these stories.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376460</id>
	<title>Specialty</title>
	<author>zogger</author>
	<datestamp>1259592840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If this is your specialty, then please contribute more good articles about new batteries. It's hard to sort through the "coming soon in 10 years to never" from "coming soon, works pretty dang good now, perhaps on sale as early as next year" from "on sale now, here is a link" stuff.</p><p>Battery tech to me today is sort of like solar PV tech. I've read hundreds of articles of new amazing break throughs, yet when I go check prices, the PV panels I got ten years ago are still a deal compared to what I see offered for sale today. They are marginally more efficient today, but at twice the price. Same with ancient tech lead acid batteries for bulk stationary storage, or short range urban electric vehicles, still the best deal out there. As soon as you go to anything else, zooba, whip out the platinum card and prepare to pay as much for a battery bank as a new mid range conventional car.</p><p>That's what people are looking for, the currency unit to watts or amphours deal.</p><p>Except for the smallest portable gadgets using lithium ion, I am just not seeing any affordable and practical major breakthroughs hitting the market with either solar PV or batteries, compared to say the advances in the last ten years with computers/cellphones, what you can get for the same or less dollars.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If this is your specialty , then please contribute more good articles about new batteries .
It 's hard to sort through the " coming soon in 10 years to never " from " coming soon , works pretty dang good now , perhaps on sale as early as next year " from " on sale now , here is a link " stuff.Battery tech to me today is sort of like solar PV tech .
I 've read hundreds of articles of new amazing break throughs , yet when I go check prices , the PV panels I got ten years ago are still a deal compared to what I see offered for sale today .
They are marginally more efficient today , but at twice the price .
Same with ancient tech lead acid batteries for bulk stationary storage , or short range urban electric vehicles , still the best deal out there .
As soon as you go to anything else , zooba , whip out the platinum card and prepare to pay as much for a battery bank as a new mid range conventional car.That 's what people are looking for , the currency unit to watts or amphours deal.Except for the smallest portable gadgets using lithium ion , I am just not seeing any affordable and practical major breakthroughs hitting the market with either solar PV or batteries , compared to say the advances in the last ten years with computers/cellphones , what you can get for the same or less dollars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this is your specialty, then please contribute more good articles about new batteries.
It's hard to sort through the "coming soon in 10 years to never" from "coming soon, works pretty dang good now, perhaps on sale as early as next year" from "on sale now, here is a link" stuff.Battery tech to me today is sort of like solar PV tech.
I've read hundreds of articles of new amazing break throughs, yet when I go check prices, the PV panels I got ten years ago are still a deal compared to what I see offered for sale today.
They are marginally more efficient today, but at twice the price.
Same with ancient tech lead acid batteries for bulk stationary storage, or short range urban electric vehicles, still the best deal out there.
As soon as you go to anything else, zooba, whip out the platinum card and prepare to pay as much for a battery bank as a new mid range conventional car.That's what people are looking for, the currency unit to watts or amphours deal.Except for the smallest portable gadgets using lithium ion, I am just not seeing any affordable and practical major breakthroughs hitting the market with either solar PV or batteries, compared to say the advances in the last ten years with computers/cellphones, what you can get for the same or less dollars.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375620</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30381568</id>
	<title>Let's rethink this...</title>
	<author>Tetsujin</author>
	<datestamp>1259578380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Just use gold instead!</p><p>But really, we have a lot of otherwise useful metals being punted around in the form of money at the moment. We should use digital money and put the metal stuff to better use.</p></div><p>You make a good point, but why stop there?</p><p>We need these electrical conductors to get electrons from one place to another, right?  If we could just tell the people at the other end to use the electrons they've already got at the other end, we'd save all sorts of trouble...</p><p>The only possible downside to this plan is we'd have to go out to the local pharmacy from time to time, buy a box of electrons to sprinkle over everything to de-ionize it again...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just use gold instead ! But really , we have a lot of otherwise useful metals being punted around in the form of money at the moment .
We should use digital money and put the metal stuff to better use.You make a good point , but why stop there ? We need these electrical conductors to get electrons from one place to another , right ?
If we could just tell the people at the other end to use the electrons they 've already got at the other end , we 'd save all sorts of trouble...The only possible downside to this plan is we 'd have to go out to the local pharmacy from time to time , buy a box of electrons to sprinkle over everything to de-ionize it again.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just use gold instead!But really, we have a lot of otherwise useful metals being punted around in the form of money at the moment.
We should use digital money and put the metal stuff to better use.You make a good point, but why stop there?We need these electrical conductors to get electrons from one place to another, right?
If we could just tell the people at the other end to use the electrons they've already got at the other end, we'd save all sorts of trouble...The only possible downside to this plan is we'd have to go out to the local pharmacy from time to time, buy a box of electrons to sprinkle over everything to de-ionize it again...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375474</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375604</id>
	<title>Information</title>
	<author>gabebear</author>
	<datestamp>1259581740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Paper at <a href="http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1388248109003889" title="elsevier.com" rel="nofollow">http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1388248109003889</a> [elsevier.com]
<br> <br>
The capacity of the prototypes was very small, but they are hoping to acchieve 10 Ah/g.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Paper at http : //linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1388248109003889 [ elsevier.com ] The capacity of the prototypes was very small , but they are hoping to acchieve 10 Ah/g .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Paper at http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1388248109003889 [elsevier.com]
 
The capacity of the prototypes was very small, but they are hoping to acchieve 10 Ah/g.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30379446</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing/advert submissions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259610540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK, last submit didn't go, maybe this'll work this time. IIRC, Lithium can be extracted from our little oceans around the world, so is scarcity real?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK , last submit did n't go , maybe this 'll work this time .
IIRC , Lithium can be extracted from our little oceans around the world , so is scarcity real ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK, last submit didn't go, maybe this'll work this time.
IIRC, Lithium can be extracted from our little oceans around the world, so is scarcity real?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376666</id>
	<title>Re:But notice the caveats</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259594340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's not rechargeable. And I don't know of any simple electrochemical process that reverses the oxidation of silicon.</p></div><p>Neither is gasoline. No wonder we don't use the stuff.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not rechargeable .
And I do n't know of any simple electrochemical process that reverses the oxidation of silicon.Neither is gasoline .
No wonder we do n't use the stuff .
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not rechargeable.
And I don't know of any simple electrochemical process that reverses the oxidation of silicon.Neither is gasoline.
No wonder we don't use the stuff.
;-)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375910</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376524</id>
	<title>Re:does this mean</title>
	<author>bilbobob</author>
	<datestamp>1259593320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>More to the point, in 10 years time my girlfriend will have implants that can recharge my ipod.  Obviously contactless power would be best; not sure USB piecings would go down too well.
I might even start saving for my own pec implants now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>More to the point , in 10 years time my girlfriend will have implants that can recharge my ipod .
Obviously contactless power would be best ; not sure USB piecings would go down too well .
I might even start saving for my own pec implants now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More to the point, in 10 years time my girlfriend will have implants that can recharge my ipod.
Obviously contactless power would be best; not sure USB piecings would go down too well.
I might even start saving for my own pec implants now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375576</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30378912</id>
	<title>Re:Call me VERY cynical, but. . .</title>
	<author>abigor</author>
	<datestamp>1259607540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Always funny to see how knee-jerk people are about Israel, yet how silent/uncaring they are when it comes to similar, and mostly much bloodier, situations - the Algerian government's actions in Darfur, the Chinese in Tibet, Rwanda back in the '90s, etc.</p><p>I wonder why this is?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Always funny to see how knee-jerk people are about Israel , yet how silent/uncaring they are when it comes to similar , and mostly much bloodier , situations - the Algerian government 's actions in Darfur , the Chinese in Tibet , Rwanda back in the '90s , etc.I wonder why this is ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Always funny to see how knee-jerk people are about Israel, yet how silent/uncaring they are when it comes to similar, and mostly much bloodier, situations - the Algerian government's actions in Darfur, the Chinese in Tibet, Rwanda back in the '90s, etc.I wonder why this is?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30391132</id>
	<title>Re:"Turn the desert green" backfires</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260471360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think they are running out of sand</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think they are running out of sand</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think they are running out of sand</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375460</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30379238</id>
	<title>Re:Summary</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1259609220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll choose which ever wiring the British don't choose.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll choose which ever wiring the British do n't choose .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll choose which ever wiring the British don't choose.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30379160</id>
	<title>Re:Natrium batteries</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1259608860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You mean Natrium Portmanium~</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean Natrium Portmanium ~</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean Natrium Portmanium~</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375498</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376874</id>
	<title>Why you nasty troll!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259595960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Stop trolling around, you stupid biatch!<br>As the <a href="http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1471786&amp;cid=30376546" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">other guy</a> [slashdot.org] said, you can't connect the actions of the government to the actions of the scientists.</p><p>So next time, before you write crap, make sure to clean your ass beforehand, ya stupid jerk!</p><p>Now buzz off before I scrape your ass from the sky.</p><p>BTW: I am looking for a girlfriend.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Stop trolling around , you stupid biatch ! As the other guy [ slashdot.org ] said , you ca n't connect the actions of the government to the actions of the scientists.So next time , before you write crap , make sure to clean your ass beforehand , ya stupid jerk ! Now buzz off before I scrape your ass from the sky.BTW : I am looking for a girlfriend .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stop trolling around, you stupid biatch!As the other guy [slashdot.org] said, you can't connect the actions of the government to the actions of the scientists.So next time, before you write crap, make sure to clean your ass beforehand, ya stupid jerk!Now buzz off before I scrape your ass from the sky.BTW: I am looking for a girlfriend.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375626</id>
	<title>Re:What about copper?</title>
	<author>ultranova</author>
	<datestamp>1259582040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just use iron. It's not like the wiring is all that long.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just use iron .
It 's not like the wiring is all that long .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just use iron.
It's not like the wiring is all that long.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375680</id>
	<title>Figuring out how it works</title>
	<author>giladpn</author>
	<datestamp>1259582760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>(sorry may be some confusion - a double post since the previous one inadvertently was anonymous)
<br> <br>
To better understand how this works, I went to the Tehnion website.
<br> <br>
Sand is actually Silicon-dioxide (combined silicon and oxygen). Pure silicon interacts with oxygen form the air to create sand. That's first-year normal chemistry. Usually such an interaction produces heat not electricity.
<br> <br>
They built the battery from pure silicon, and the trick is that Oxygen from the air has to pass through a membrane to get to the silicon and oxidize it. The membrane will allow only oxygen ions through, so electrons have to flow the other way to match up with the ions and maintain overall neutrality. Hence you get a current instead of only heat.
<br> <br>
Of course it will take some years to commercialize. Small applications will come first (small batteries), only later will we get big batteries (for cars?) and even later rechargeable stuff (if at all).

I noticed many people are skeptical - but this is normal in science and engineering. Any real innovation raises new questions that must be answered.

Kudos to the Israeli team, and their collaborators from USA &amp; Japan.</htmltext>
<tokenext>( sorry may be some confusion - a double post since the previous one inadvertently was anonymous ) To better understand how this works , I went to the Tehnion website .
Sand is actually Silicon-dioxide ( combined silicon and oxygen ) .
Pure silicon interacts with oxygen form the air to create sand .
That 's first-year normal chemistry .
Usually such an interaction produces heat not electricity .
They built the battery from pure silicon , and the trick is that Oxygen from the air has to pass through a membrane to get to the silicon and oxidize it .
The membrane will allow only oxygen ions through , so electrons have to flow the other way to match up with the ions and maintain overall neutrality .
Hence you get a current instead of only heat .
Of course it will take some years to commercialize .
Small applications will come first ( small batteries ) , only later will we get big batteries ( for cars ?
) and even later rechargeable stuff ( if at all ) .
I noticed many people are skeptical - but this is normal in science and engineering .
Any real innovation raises new questions that must be answered .
Kudos to the Israeli team , and their collaborators from USA &amp; Japan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(sorry may be some confusion - a double post since the previous one inadvertently was anonymous)
 
To better understand how this works, I went to the Tehnion website.
Sand is actually Silicon-dioxide (combined silicon and oxygen).
Pure silicon interacts with oxygen form the air to create sand.
That's first-year normal chemistry.
Usually such an interaction produces heat not electricity.
They built the battery from pure silicon, and the trick is that Oxygen from the air has to pass through a membrane to get to the silicon and oxidize it.
The membrane will allow only oxygen ions through, so electrons have to flow the other way to match up with the ions and maintain overall neutrality.
Hence you get a current instead of only heat.
Of course it will take some years to commercialize.
Small applications will come first (small batteries), only later will we get big batteries (for cars?
) and even later rechargeable stuff (if at all).
I noticed many people are skeptical - but this is normal in science and engineering.
Any real innovation raises new questions that must be answered.
Kudos to the Israeli team, and their collaborators from USA &amp; Japan.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30378188</id>
	<title>Carbon based batteries</title>
	<author>Midnight Thunder</author>
	<datestamp>1259603820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having recently read an <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427362.000-welcome-to-the-highcarbon-future.html" title="newscientist.com">article</a> [newscientist.com] in the "New Scientist" as to how Carbon could be the new Silicon, thanks to Nanotechnology, this got me wondering whether Carbon could do the same thing for batteries, so I decided to see what the research status is. From what I can see Zinc-Carbon is the current cheap solution in non-rechargeable batteries (according to Wikipedia), though a few hits turn up Lead-Carbon batteries, with this following article suggesting it could be a "game changer":</p><p><a href="http://seekingalpha.com/article/115257-lead-carbon-a-game-changer-for-alternative-energy-storage" title="seekingalpha.com">http://seekingalpha.com/article/115257-lead-carbon-a-game-changer-for-alternative-energy-storage</a> [seekingalpha.com]</p><p>As to whether that pans out we will have to see. The advantage of Carbon over Silicon and Lithium is its availability.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having recently read an article [ newscientist.com ] in the " New Scientist " as to how Carbon could be the new Silicon , thanks to Nanotechnology , this got me wondering whether Carbon could do the same thing for batteries , so I decided to see what the research status is .
From what I can see Zinc-Carbon is the current cheap solution in non-rechargeable batteries ( according to Wikipedia ) , though a few hits turn up Lead-Carbon batteries , with this following article suggesting it could be a " game changer " : http : //seekingalpha.com/article/115257-lead-carbon-a-game-changer-for-alternative-energy-storage [ seekingalpha.com ] As to whether that pans out we will have to see .
The advantage of Carbon over Silicon and Lithium is its availability .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having recently read an article [newscientist.com] in the "New Scientist" as to how Carbon could be the new Silicon, thanks to Nanotechnology, this got me wondering whether Carbon could do the same thing for batteries, so I decided to see what the research status is.
From what I can see Zinc-Carbon is the current cheap solution in non-rechargeable batteries (according to Wikipedia), though a few hits turn up Lead-Carbon batteries, with this following article suggesting it could be a "game changer":http://seekingalpha.com/article/115257-lead-carbon-a-game-changer-for-alternative-energy-storage [seekingalpha.com]As to whether that pans out we will have to see.
The advantage of Carbon over Silicon and Lithium is its availability.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30378450</id>
	<title>Shipstones</title>
	<author>Fished</author>
	<datestamp>1259605200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Friday, Heinlein made the point that the problem is not an energy shortage, but a shortage of really good, efficient, cheap ways to store and transport energy.  He invented a technology called "Shipstones" to overcome this--which were essentially a sort of supercharged storage battery.  This in turn enabled a world where fossil fuel use was all but unknown.  (This was one of the few Heinlein books to address anything resembling environmental issues--and while I think some elements of his "solution" are far-fetched, such as a return to horses and animal power except for "Authorized Power Vehicles"--it's interesting to see how he dealt with it.)</p><p>There is a point to be made here.  A really good battery technology is potentially a world changer.  With such technology, we could get back to using oil for plastics and medicinal uses, just like the Romans did.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Friday , Heinlein made the point that the problem is not an energy shortage , but a shortage of really good , efficient , cheap ways to store and transport energy .
He invented a technology called " Shipstones " to overcome this--which were essentially a sort of supercharged storage battery .
This in turn enabled a world where fossil fuel use was all but unknown .
( This was one of the few Heinlein books to address anything resembling environmental issues--and while I think some elements of his " solution " are far-fetched , such as a return to horses and animal power except for " Authorized Power Vehicles " --it 's interesting to see how he dealt with it .
) There is a point to be made here .
A really good battery technology is potentially a world changer .
With such technology , we could get back to using oil for plastics and medicinal uses , just like the Romans did .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Friday, Heinlein made the point that the problem is not an energy shortage, but a shortage of really good, efficient, cheap ways to store and transport energy.
He invented a technology called "Shipstones" to overcome this--which were essentially a sort of supercharged storage battery.
This in turn enabled a world where fossil fuel use was all but unknown.
(This was one of the few Heinlein books to address anything resembling environmental issues--and while I think some elements of his "solution" are far-fetched, such as a return to horses and animal power except for "Authorized Power Vehicles"--it's interesting to see how he dealt with it.
)There is a point to be made here.
A really good battery technology is potentially a world changer.
With such technology, we could get back to using oil for plastics and medicinal uses, just like the Romans did.
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375460</id>
	<title>"Turn the desert green" backfires</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259579460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wouldn't you know it. You turn the desert into an environment that supports agriculture and the very thing you got rid of in mass quantities turns out to be the main ingredient in the technology of the future. Doesn't that just rub you the wrong way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would n't you know it .
You turn the desert into an environment that supports agriculture and the very thing you got rid of in mass quantities turns out to be the main ingredient in the technology of the future .
Does n't that just rub you the wrong way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wouldn't you know it.
You turn the desert into an environment that supports agriculture and the very thing you got rid of in mass quantities turns out to be the main ingredient in the technology of the future.
Doesn't that just rub you the wrong way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376342</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing/advert submissions</title>
	<author>FlyingBishop</author>
	<datestamp>1259592000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I seemed to miss the part where this is a marketable product. It looks to me like standard "This research will change the world" silliness that likely won't be commercialized for years. It says as much in the linked posts.</p><p>And what is Slashdot for if not publicizing vaporware?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I seemed to miss the part where this is a marketable product .
It looks to me like standard " This research will change the world " silliness that likely wo n't be commercialized for years .
It says as much in the linked posts.And what is Slashdot for if not publicizing vaporware ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I seemed to miss the part where this is a marketable product.
It looks to me like standard "This research will change the world" silliness that likely won't be commercialized for years.
It says as much in the linked posts.And what is Slashdot for if not publicizing vaporware?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375482</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376160</id>
	<title>Re:What about copper?</title>
	<author>Darth Sdlavrot</author>
	<datestamp>1259589780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>p&gt;Is'nt the world reserve of copper basically mined out?</p></div><p>No. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper#Reserves" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper#Reserves</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>And copper can be recycled indefinitely.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>p &gt; Is'nt the world reserve of copper basically mined out ? No .
http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper # Reserves [ wikipedia.org ] And copper can be recycled indefinitely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>p&gt;Is'nt the world reserve of copper basically mined out?No.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper#Reserves [wikipedia.org]And copper can be recycled indefinitely.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30381978</id>
	<title>Re:What about copper?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259580360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why in the heck was this comment rated "Troll"? I sure hope the meta-moderator for this moderation has his eyes open.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why in the heck was this comment rated " Troll " ?
I sure hope the meta-moderator for this moderation has his eyes open .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why in the heck was this comment rated "Troll"?
I sure hope the meta-moderator for this moderation has his eyes open.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375428</id>
	<title>What would be fun</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259579040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is if the best sand is in Saudi Arabia and the factory in Australia, then we would ship send both ways from desert to desert and be sure the aliens NEVER contact us!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is if the best sand is in Saudi Arabia and the factory in Australia , then we would ship send both ways from desert to desert and be sure the aliens NEVER contact us !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is if the best sand is in Saudi Arabia and the factory in Australia, then we would ship send both ways from desert to desert and be sure the aliens NEVER contact us!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30377022</id>
	<title>Re:Lithium limited?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259596920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The growing demand for and perceived shortage of Lithium is why I made out like bandit earlier this year on Galaxy Resources (GXY) shares. Bought at $0.35 and sold out at $2.10 not even six months later.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The growing demand for and perceived shortage of Lithium is why I made out like bandit earlier this year on Galaxy Resources ( GXY ) shares .
Bought at $ 0.35 and sold out at $ 2.10 not even six months later .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The growing demand for and perceived shortage of Lithium is why I made out like bandit earlier this year on Galaxy Resources (GXY) shares.
Bought at $0.35 and sold out at $2.10 not even six months later.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375516</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30377324</id>
	<title>One question</title>
	<author>OhHellWithIt</author>
	<datestamp>1259598840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Will it spontaneously combust the way some lithium batteries do? If not, then it's hardly a replacement!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Will it spontaneously combust the way some lithium batteries do ?
If not , then it 's hardly a replacement !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Will it spontaneously combust the way some lithium batteries do?
If not, then it's hardly a replacement!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375558</id>
	<title>Re:Natrium batteries</title>
	<author>thodi</author>
	<datestamp>1259580900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That would be sodium for most people here, by the way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That would be sodium for most people here , by the way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That would be sodium for most people here, by the way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375498</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375894</id>
	<title>Estimates</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259586120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>off-topic, but...</p><p><div class="quote"><p>How can you estimate how long it will take to do something no one has ever done? It might not even be possible)</p></div><p>Heh. That's what folks in my industry (software) do all the time.</p><p>(/me runs to skirt the customer hitting me over the head)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>off-topic , but...How can you estimate how long it will take to do something no one has ever done ?
It might not even be possible ) Heh .
That 's what folks in my industry ( software ) do all the time .
( /me runs to skirt the customer hitting me over the head )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>off-topic, but...How can you estimate how long it will take to do something no one has ever done?
It might not even be possible)Heh.
That's what folks in my industry (software) do all the time.
(/me runs to skirt the customer hitting me over the head)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30379858</id>
	<title>Re:But notice the caveats</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1259612940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many small batteries are not recharable, and this thing is a lot better in a land fill If it scaled to vehicals, then you will jsut go to a 'Battery replacement station'.</p><p>Flourine isn't that big of a deal.</p><p>The break through is that they ahve fouind a way to scale this up. Maybe more testing dev. required.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many small batteries are not recharable , and this thing is a lot better in a land fill If it scaled to vehicals , then you will jsut go to a 'Battery replacement station'.Flourine is n't that big of a deal.The break through is that they ahve fouind a way to scale this up .
Maybe more testing dev .
required .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many small batteries are not recharable, and this thing is a lot better in a land fill If it scaled to vehicals, then you will jsut go to a 'Battery replacement station'.Flourine isn't that big of a deal.The break through is that they ahve fouind a way to scale this up.
Maybe more testing dev.
required.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375910</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375576</id>
	<title>does this mean</title>
	<author>commodoresloat</author>
	<datestamp>1259581200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>they'll be treating manic depression with silicone? </p><p>Then again, I guess they've been doing that for years with breast implants...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>they 'll be treating manic depression with silicone ?
Then again , I guess they 've been doing that for years with breast implants.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they'll be treating manic depression with silicone?
Then again, I guess they've been doing that for years with breast implants...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30378840</id>
	<title>Re:What about copper?</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1259607240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes...and no.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes...and no .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes...and no.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375422</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30379268</id>
	<title>Re:Summary</title>
	<author>mikael</author>
	<datestamp>1259609460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If it is going to be possible to manufacture paper batteries based on silicon nano-tubes that store more energy than a lithium-ion laptop battery, then that is going to happen much sooner than we could imagine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it is going to be possible to manufacture paper batteries based on silicon nano-tubes that store more energy than a lithium-ion laptop battery , then that is going to happen much sooner than we could imagine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it is going to be possible to manufacture paper batteries based on silicon nano-tubes that store more energy than a lithium-ion laptop battery, then that is going to happen much sooner than we could imagine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376086</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376592</id>
	<title>Re:Information</title>
	<author>gabebear</author>
	<datestamp>1259593740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oops, forgot to put voltage...
<br> <br>
but you seem to have moved a decimal. 10Ah/g at 1V = 10Wh/g, which would make it <em>possibly</em> several times better than gasoline.
<br> <br>
The 10kWh/kg claim is hard to believe, lithium-ion is currently maxing out at ~400Wh/kg.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oops , forgot to put voltage.. . but you seem to have moved a decimal .
10Ah/g at 1V = 10Wh/g , which would make it possibly several times better than gasoline .
The 10kWh/kg claim is hard to believe , lithium-ion is currently maxing out at ~ 400Wh/kg .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oops, forgot to put voltage...
 
but you seem to have moved a decimal.
10Ah/g at 1V = 10Wh/g, which would make it possibly several times better than gasoline.
The 10kWh/kg claim is hard to believe, lithium-ion is currently maxing out at ~400Wh/kg.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376194</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376546</id>
	<title>Sion</title>
	<author>AP31R0N</author>
	<datestamp>1259593440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i wish calling Lithium batteries "Li-on" (Li + ion) had taken root.  Maybe we'll get it this time with Si-on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i wish calling Lithium batteries " Li-on " ( Li + ion ) had taken root .
Maybe we 'll get it this time with Si-on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i wish calling Lithium batteries "Li-on" (Li + ion) had taken root.
Maybe we'll get it this time with Si-on.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376736</id>
	<title>Re:Lithium limited?</title>
	<author>CrimsonAvenger</author>
	<datestamp>1259594880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Gerson Lehrman Group, a New York consulting firm, estimates that even if 500,000 cars powered by lithium ion batteries were produced in 2015, they would use less than 10 percent of last year's global lithium output. And global output continues to climb.</p></div></blockquote><p>Of course, worldwide auto production is a lot closer to 10,000,000 per year....</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gerson Lehrman Group , a New York consulting firm , estimates that even if 500,000 cars powered by lithium ion batteries were produced in 2015 , they would use less than 10 percent of last year 's global lithium output .
And global output continues to climb.Of course , worldwide auto production is a lot closer to 10,000,000 per year... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gerson Lehrman Group, a New York consulting firm, estimates that even if 500,000 cars powered by lithium ion batteries were produced in 2015, they would use less than 10 percent of last year's global lithium output.
And global output continues to climb.Of course, worldwide auto production is a lot closer to 10,000,000 per year....
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375516</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376086</id>
	<title>Re:Summary</title>
	<author>phoenix321</author>
	<datestamp>1259589060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My car still burns non-rechargeable hydrocarbons and one tank barely lasts 600 hours.</p><p>If the energy-to-weight and energy-to-cost ratios of that battery could reach even the general vicinity of gasoline, everything else concerning click-in systems or replacement is peanuts and will be invented less than one second after the battery itself. Of course we will have BluBattery and HD-Battery warring for dominance, but that's only a minor nuisance compared to the fact that we now could power cars, trucks, boats and airliners without needing to pay or liberate more 17th century  cleptocracies somewhere in the deserts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My car still burns non-rechargeable hydrocarbons and one tank barely lasts 600 hours.If the energy-to-weight and energy-to-cost ratios of that battery could reach even the general vicinity of gasoline , everything else concerning click-in systems or replacement is peanuts and will be invented less than one second after the battery itself .
Of course we will have BluBattery and HD-Battery warring for dominance , but that 's only a minor nuisance compared to the fact that we now could power cars , trucks , boats and airliners without needing to pay or liberate more 17th century cleptocracies somewhere in the deserts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My car still burns non-rechargeable hydrocarbons and one tank barely lasts 600 hours.If the energy-to-weight and energy-to-cost ratios of that battery could reach even the general vicinity of gasoline, everything else concerning click-in systems or replacement is peanuts and will be invented less than one second after the battery itself.
Of course we will have BluBattery and HD-Battery warring for dominance, but that's only a minor nuisance compared to the fact that we now could power cars, trucks, boats and airliners without needing to pay or liberate more 17th century  cleptocracies somewhere in the deserts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375538</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30376802</id>
	<title>Re:But notice the caveats</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259595420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>*It requires a Flourine-carrying electrolyte! Lithium is bad enuf, but Fluorine is really bad stuff.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Can't even be used as rocket fuel, cause its to corrosive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>* It requires a Flourine-carrying electrolyte !
Lithium is bad enuf , but Fluorine is really bad stuff .
              Ca n't even be used as rocket fuel , cause its to corrosive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>*It requires a Flourine-carrying electrolyte!
Lithium is bad enuf, but Fluorine is really bad stuff.
              Can't even be used as rocket fuel, cause its to corrosive.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375910</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30379020</id>
	<title>Re:Marketing/advert submissions</title>
	<author>hduff</author>
	<datestamp>1259608140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The link to the journal article was unreliable for me, so I chose the one that worked. I would have preferred to submit the direct link to the journal article. Don't assume that submitters are clueless.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The link to the journal article was unreliable for me , so I chose the one that worked .
I would have preferred to submit the direct link to the journal article .
Do n't assume that submitters are clueless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The link to the journal article was unreliable for me, so I chose the one that worked.
I would have preferred to submit the direct link to the journal article.
Don't assume that submitters are clueless.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_09_0037228.30375482</parent>
</comment>
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