<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_08_0638235</id>
	<title>The Struggle For Private Game Servers</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1260273120000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>A story at the BBC takes a look at the use of <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8393770.stm">private game servers for games that tend not to allow them</a>. While most gamers are happy to let companies like Blizzard and NCSoft administer the servers that host their MMORPGs, others want different rules, a cheaper way to play, or the technical challenge of setting up their own. A South African player called Hendrick put up his own <em>WoW</em> server because the game "wasn't available in the country at the time." A 21-year-old Swede created a server called Epilogue, which "had strict codes of conduct and rules, as well as a high degree of customized content (such as new currency, methods of earning experience, the ability to construct buildings and hire non-player characters, plus 'permanent' player death) unavailable in the retail version of the game." The game companies make an effort to quash these servers when they can, though it's frequently more trouble that it's worth. An NCSoft representative referenced the "growing menace" of IP theft, and a Blizzard spokesperson said,"We also have a responsibility to our players to ensure the integrity and reliability of their <em>World of Warcraft</em> gaming experience and that responsibility compels us to protect our rights."</htmltext>
<tokenext>A story at the BBC takes a look at the use of private game servers for games that tend not to allow them .
While most gamers are happy to let companies like Blizzard and NCSoft administer the servers that host their MMORPGs , others want different rules , a cheaper way to play , or the technical challenge of setting up their own .
A South African player called Hendrick put up his own WoW server because the game " was n't available in the country at the time .
" A 21-year-old Swede created a server called Epilogue , which " had strict codes of conduct and rules , as well as a high degree of customized content ( such as new currency , methods of earning experience , the ability to construct buildings and hire non-player characters , plus 'permanent ' player death ) unavailable in the retail version of the game .
" The game companies make an effort to quash these servers when they can , though it 's frequently more trouble that it 's worth .
An NCSoft representative referenced the " growing menace " of IP theft , and a Blizzard spokesperson said , " We also have a responsibility to our players to ensure the integrity and reliability of their World of Warcraft gaming experience and that responsibility compels us to protect our rights .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A story at the BBC takes a look at the use of private game servers for games that tend not to allow them.
While most gamers are happy to let companies like Blizzard and NCSoft administer the servers that host their MMORPGs, others want different rules, a cheaper way to play, or the technical challenge of setting up their own.
A South African player called Hendrick put up his own WoW server because the game "wasn't available in the country at the time.
" A 21-year-old Swede created a server called Epilogue, which "had strict codes of conduct and rules, as well as a high degree of customized content (such as new currency, methods of earning experience, the ability to construct buildings and hire non-player characters, plus 'permanent' player death) unavailable in the retail version of the game.
" The game companies make an effort to quash these servers when they can, though it's frequently more trouble that it's worth.
An NCSoft representative referenced the "growing menace" of IP theft, and a Blizzard spokesperson said,"We also have a responsibility to our players to ensure the integrity and reliability of their World of Warcraft gaming experience and that responsibility compels us to protect our rights.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364138</id>
	<title>Re:Irony</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260282180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It must have been a very long time ago that you tried a private server, or you happened to pick a really crappy one that disabled LoS processing to save ram / cpu.</p><p>The "terrain" issues that you speak of are a lack of 3D data in the maps (vmaps). This problem has been solved for a long time. However (at least on Trinity and MaNGOS) you can disable vmaps processing on certain maps -- this will save you some memory and cpu usage. By default only map 369 (the deeprun tram) is ignored since it has no 3D data in the maps -- we aren't sure HOW blizz handles LoS (line of sight) issues on that map.</p><p>I would say that I am one of other scenarios<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... the one that blizz doesn't like. I liked running my own server with just me and my wife playing that I quit playing on blizz's servers, and hell even started developing the database that drove the server I was using.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It must have been a very long time ago that you tried a private server , or you happened to pick a really crappy one that disabled LoS processing to save ram / cpu.The " terrain " issues that you speak of are a lack of 3D data in the maps ( vmaps ) .
This problem has been solved for a long time .
However ( at least on Trinity and MaNGOS ) you can disable vmaps processing on certain maps -- this will save you some memory and cpu usage .
By default only map 369 ( the deeprun tram ) is ignored since it has no 3D data in the maps -- we are n't sure HOW blizz handles LoS ( line of sight ) issues on that map.I would say that I am one of other scenarios ... the one that blizz does n't like .
I liked running my own server with just me and my wife playing that I quit playing on blizz 's servers , and hell even started developing the database that drove the server I was using .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It must have been a very long time ago that you tried a private server, or you happened to pick a really crappy one that disabled LoS processing to save ram / cpu.The "terrain" issues that you speak of are a lack of 3D data in the maps (vmaps).
This problem has been solved for a long time.
However (at least on Trinity and MaNGOS) you can disable vmaps processing on certain maps -- this will save you some memory and cpu usage.
By default only map 369 (the deeprun tram) is ignored since it has no 3D data in the maps -- we aren't sure HOW blizz handles LoS (line of sight) issues on that map.I would say that I am one of other scenarios ... the one that blizz doesn't like.
I liked running my own server with just me and my wife playing that I quit playing on blizz's servers, and hell even started developing the database that drove the server I was using.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363872</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30366142</id>
	<title>Re:The poor corporate victim</title>
	<author>dave1791</author>
	<datestamp>1260291660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The principle is simple.  You pay them 50 cents a day and they let you spend as many hours on their servers as you want.  It is win-win for everyone until you bring an unwarranted sense of entitlement to the table.  It's not food or medicine that Blizzard sells, its freaking entertainment.  You CAN go without it and going without it would probably actually be good for you.  If you don't like their terms, go elsewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The principle is simple .
You pay them 50 cents a day and they let you spend as many hours on their servers as you want .
It is win-win for everyone until you bring an unwarranted sense of entitlement to the table .
It 's not food or medicine that Blizzard sells , its freaking entertainment .
You CAN go without it and going without it would probably actually be good for you .
If you do n't like their terms , go elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The principle is simple.
You pay them 50 cents a day and they let you spend as many hours on their servers as you want.
It is win-win for everyone until you bring an unwarranted sense of entitlement to the table.
It's not food or medicine that Blizzard sells, its freaking entertainment.
You CAN go without it and going without it would probably actually be good for you.
If you don't like their terms, go elsewhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364732</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30372682</id>
	<title>Re:Irony</title>
	<author>FsG</author>
	<datestamp>1260279480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Larger private servers (250+ simultaneous players) generally have no choice but to disable vmaps. I'm the owner of www.itrwow.com, and we have long since discovered that both trinity and mangos suffer from *serious* stability issues when vmaps are enabled. Most of the time, it's impossible to keep it running for more than a few minutes without some kind of segfault if you have hundreds of people online at once.</p><p>And, no, this has nothing to do with hardware -- our machine has more than enough RAM and CPU capacity to handle it. The software just sucks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Larger private servers ( 250 + simultaneous players ) generally have no choice but to disable vmaps .
I 'm the owner of www.itrwow.com , and we have long since discovered that both trinity and mangos suffer from * serious * stability issues when vmaps are enabled .
Most of the time , it 's impossible to keep it running for more than a few minutes without some kind of segfault if you have hundreds of people online at once.And , no , this has nothing to do with hardware -- our machine has more than enough RAM and CPU capacity to handle it .
The software just sucks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Larger private servers (250+ simultaneous players) generally have no choice but to disable vmaps.
I'm the owner of www.itrwow.com, and we have long since discovered that both trinity and mangos suffer from *serious* stability issues when vmaps are enabled.
Most of the time, it's impossible to keep it running for more than a few minutes without some kind of segfault if you have hundreds of people online at once.And, no, this has nothing to do with hardware -- our machine has more than enough RAM and CPU capacity to handle it.
The software just sucks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30368858</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Touvan</author>
	<datestamp>1260303000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been on a few decent ones - dethpod comes to mind. Also, I have no problem at all with not paying Blizzard - I bought the game, and played for a few months (only a few hours a month, and still payed $15 a month). I don't feel like I owe them anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been on a few decent ones - dethpod comes to mind .
Also , I have no problem at all with not paying Blizzard - I bought the game , and played for a few months ( only a few hours a month , and still payed $ 15 a month ) .
I do n't feel like I owe them anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been on a few decent ones - dethpod comes to mind.
Also, I have no problem at all with not paying Blizzard - I bought the game, and played for a few months (only a few hours a month, and still payed $15 a month).
I don't feel like I owe them anything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30365124</id>
	<title>Re:Irony</title>
	<author>emkyooess</author>
	<datestamp>1260287340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This was either a long time ago, or on terribly configured servers.  Line of Sight has been handled for Mangos for 2 years now, as long as you feed it the map files and give it processing time to calculate the LOS tables.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This was either a long time ago , or on terribly configured servers .
Line of Sight has been handled for Mangos for 2 years now , as long as you feed it the map files and give it processing time to calculate the LOS tables .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This was either a long time ago, or on terribly configured servers.
Line of Sight has been handled for Mangos for 2 years now, as long as you feed it the map files and give it processing time to calculate the LOS tables.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363872</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30365520</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Ash Vince</author>
	<datestamp>1260289020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Blizzard haven't really fight against the private servers good afaik, and why would they - anyone who has ever tried any of them knows how crappy they are.</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>The sad part here is people who might for cheapness reasons to play on those servers instead and think the game is crap, while in fact the server just sucks.</p></div><p>This is exactly why Blizzard would try and shut them down, they reflect badly on the game as a whole. I know you could say only stupid people would think this, but stupid people can still post there opinion to the internet<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>(See, told you so)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Blizzard have n't really fight against the private servers good afaik , and why would they - anyone who has ever tried any of them knows how crappy they are.The sad part here is people who might for cheapness reasons to play on those servers instead and think the game is crap , while in fact the server just sucks.This is exactly why Blizzard would try and shut them down , they reflect badly on the game as a whole .
I know you could say only stupid people would think this , but stupid people can still post there opinion to the internet : ) ( See , told you so )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Blizzard haven't really fight against the private servers good afaik, and why would they - anyone who has ever tried any of them knows how crappy they are.The sad part here is people who might for cheapness reasons to play on those servers instead and think the game is crap, while in fact the server just sucks.This is exactly why Blizzard would try and shut them down, they reflect badly on the game as a whole.
I know you could say only stupid people would think this, but stupid people can still post there opinion to the internet :)(See, told you so)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30366076</id>
	<title>Re:The poor corporate victim</title>
	<author>WizarDru</author>
	<datestamp>1260291360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Those poor, poor mega-billion dollar corporations.  So victimized.</p><p>Mega-billion dollar corporations?  I guess if 'mega' translates to 2.9 (in 2007), then yes.  For ALL of Activision-Blizzard, not just Blizzard...remove console sales from their and you lose between 1-2 billion.  But assuming you meant 'mega' just as a pejorative, sure.

Still, I'm not sure what your point is.  Are you saying that simply because they're successful, that they rescind all legal rights to protect their interests?  That if someone steals from them, it's OK because they're a big corporation?  Never mind the fact that a big corporation is funded by thousands or millions of stockholders, both individually and through portfolios (including 401K and retirement funds).  That big, bad corporation represents the financial interests far beyond some CEO paycheck.  And even if it did, that doesn't mean that someone else is entitled to harm them or infringe on their work, just because they don't have the good graces to not make a profit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Those poor , poor mega-billion dollar corporations .
So victimized.Mega-billion dollar corporations ?
I guess if 'mega ' translates to 2.9 ( in 2007 ) , then yes .
For ALL of Activision-Blizzard , not just Blizzard...remove console sales from their and you lose between 1-2 billion .
But assuming you meant 'mega ' just as a pejorative , sure .
Still , I 'm not sure what your point is .
Are you saying that simply because they 're successful , that they rescind all legal rights to protect their interests ?
That if someone steals from them , it 's OK because they 're a big corporation ?
Never mind the fact that a big corporation is funded by thousands or millions of stockholders , both individually and through portfolios ( including 401K and retirement funds ) .
That big , bad corporation represents the financial interests far beyond some CEO paycheck .
And even if it did , that does n't mean that someone else is entitled to harm them or infringe on their work , just because they do n't have the good graces to not make a profit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those poor, poor mega-billion dollar corporations.
So victimized.Mega-billion dollar corporations?
I guess if 'mega' translates to 2.9 (in 2007), then yes.
For ALL of Activision-Blizzard, not just Blizzard...remove console sales from their and you lose between 1-2 billion.
But assuming you meant 'mega' just as a pejorative, sure.
Still, I'm not sure what your point is.
Are you saying that simply because they're successful, that they rescind all legal rights to protect their interests?
That if someone steals from them, it's OK because they're a big corporation?
Never mind the fact that a big corporation is funded by thousands or millions of stockholders, both individually and through portfolios (including 401K and retirement funds).
That big, bad corporation represents the financial interests far beyond some CEO paycheck.
And even if it did, that doesn't mean that someone else is entitled to harm them or infringe on their work, just because they don't have the good graces to not make a profit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364732</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30367382</id>
	<title>Re:The poor corporate victim</title>
	<author>Wildclaw</author>
	<datestamp>1260297240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I pay, they provide a service for me. I don't pay, they don't provide a service for me. I am fine so far. It is when they want to stop me from getting a service from someone else that I have to my middle finger at them. Of course, with the locked market capitalism that is practiced in most countries around the world, it is not strange to see that kind of entitlement.</p><p><div class="quote"><p> If you don't like their terms, go elsewhere.</p></div><p>But wasn't that was exactly what you argued against?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I pay , they provide a service for me .
I do n't pay , they do n't provide a service for me .
I am fine so far .
It is when they want to stop me from getting a service from someone else that I have to my middle finger at them .
Of course , with the locked market capitalism that is practiced in most countries around the world , it is not strange to see that kind of entitlement .
If you do n't like their terms , go elsewhere.But was n't that was exactly what you argued against ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I pay, they provide a service for me.
I don't pay, they don't provide a service for me.
I am fine so far.
It is when they want to stop me from getting a service from someone else that I have to my middle finger at them.
Of course, with the locked market capitalism that is practiced in most countries around the world, it is not strange to see that kind of entitlement.
If you don't like their terms, go elsewhere.But wasn't that was exactly what you argued against?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30366142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30369134</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>angel'o'sphere</author>
	<datestamp>1260304260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i><br>Competition in WOW or any other point and click mmorpg is a JOKE. There is no skill involved. You just point click and hope your damage multiplier plays in your favour. All luck.</i></p><p>Even for classes like Rogue or Paladin where I would half agree with you, this is not true.</p><p>3D shooters as well require more skills (real live aiming/dexterity) than just aiming with the mouse.</p><p>Most skills in MMORPG have a) a casting time and b) a cooldown. The more powerful the spell is the longer in general is his cooldown. Using a spell to early means you waste its power. Using it to late means you are already dead.<br>Claiming that there is no skill involved (in the sense of real life skill of judging which measure is the appropriate one in this particular situation), makes pretty sure you never tried to master those skills. I assume you got powned by other players and as you lacked the skills and understanding how to prevent it, you assume they had no skills either.</p><p>But I understand your concerns. After 5 years of WoW (plus EU open beta and US open and closed beta) I finally leveled my Paladin to lvl 70. The only 2 players I failed to pown with him was in the most recent Alterac Valley battleground, a lvl 79 Rogue and a lvl 79 Warlock somehow magically managed to kill me ^^ (In other words: Paladins are so overpowerd that with roughly 4 weeks playing experience I kill everything in about 5 to 6 seconds regardless of class<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but I know the enemy classes because I have 5 Years Warlock experience<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and Warlock *is* by far still the weakest class in game, well, probably a holy priest is even weaker)</p><p>angel'o'sphere</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Competition in WOW or any other point and click mmorpg is a JOKE .
There is no skill involved .
You just point click and hope your damage multiplier plays in your favour .
All luck.Even for classes like Rogue or Paladin where I would half agree with you , this is not true.3D shooters as well require more skills ( real live aiming/dexterity ) than just aiming with the mouse.Most skills in MMORPG have a ) a casting time and b ) a cooldown .
The more powerful the spell is the longer in general is his cooldown .
Using a spell to early means you waste its power .
Using it to late means you are already dead.Claiming that there is no skill involved ( in the sense of real life skill of judging which measure is the appropriate one in this particular situation ) , makes pretty sure you never tried to master those skills .
I assume you got powned by other players and as you lacked the skills and understanding how to prevent it , you assume they had no skills either.But I understand your concerns .
After 5 years of WoW ( plus EU open beta and US open and closed beta ) I finally leveled my Paladin to lvl 70 .
The only 2 players I failed to pown with him was in the most recent Alterac Valley battleground , a lvl 79 Rogue and a lvl 79 Warlock somehow magically managed to kill me ^ ^ ( In other words : Paladins are so overpowerd that with roughly 4 weeks playing experience I kill everything in about 5 to 6 seconds regardless of class ... but I know the enemy classes because I have 5 Years Warlock experience ... and Warlock * is * by far still the weakest class in game , well , probably a holy priest is even weaker ) angel'o'sphere</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Competition in WOW or any other point and click mmorpg is a JOKE.
There is no skill involved.
You just point click and hope your damage multiplier plays in your favour.
All luck.Even for classes like Rogue or Paladin where I would half agree with you, this is not true.3D shooters as well require more skills (real live aiming/dexterity) than just aiming with the mouse.Most skills in MMORPG have a) a casting time and b) a cooldown.
The more powerful the spell is the longer in general is his cooldown.
Using a spell to early means you waste its power.
Using it to late means you are already dead.Claiming that there is no skill involved (in the sense of real life skill of judging which measure is the appropriate one in this particular situation), makes pretty sure you never tried to master those skills.
I assume you got powned by other players and as you lacked the skills and understanding how to prevent it, you assume they had no skills either.But I understand your concerns.
After 5 years of WoW (plus EU open beta and US open and closed beta) I finally leveled my Paladin to lvl 70.
The only 2 players I failed to pown with him was in the most recent Alterac Valley battleground, a lvl 79 Rogue and a lvl 79 Warlock somehow magically managed to kill me ^^ (In other words: Paladins are so overpowerd that with roughly 4 weeks playing experience I kill everything in about 5 to 6 seconds regardless of class ... but I know the enemy classes because I have 5 Years Warlock experience ... and Warlock *is* by far still the weakest class in game, well, probably a holy priest is even weaker)angel'o'sphere</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30366558</id>
	<title>How do they work?</title>
	<author>eison</author>
	<datestamp>1260293160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So how do private servers get made?  Are they based on leaked code, running something that ships with the game in a different way, or are they written from scratch?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So how do private servers get made ?
Are they based on leaked code , running something that ships with the game in a different way , or are they written from scratch ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So how do private servers get made?
Are they based on leaked code, running something that ships with the game in a different way, or are they written from scratch?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364672</id>
	<title>South African WoW player</title>
	<author>ultral0rd</author>
	<datestamp>1260285300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Blizzard did in fact try to take some measures a couple of years ago regarding South Africa and our fleet of Private Servers.

Because of the high volume of "private servers" in SA (hosting all of Blizzards games [starcraft, d1,d2,War3, and WoW]) Blizzard threatened not to ship WoW - The Burning Crusade to South Africa.

This fell through as the game was oddly enough available in Zimbabwe, and so suppliers were just importing the game.

This being said, one of the main reasons PS exist in SA is because our pings to Blizzard servers(and everywhere else in the world) usually vary between 600-1200ms. It can be lowered to 350, but this requires a purchase of an unshaped account (which sells for over R125 per gig).

So instead, SA gamers choose to rather enjoy a lag free game, rather than a full feature game.
And with local bandwidth costing almost 10\% of our "blended" bandwidth some players are almost forced into using PS.

I'm not saying that this is a valid excuse to host PS, but sometimes when you are forced into a corner, you just have to make do with what you have.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Blizzard did in fact try to take some measures a couple of years ago regarding South Africa and our fleet of Private Servers .
Because of the high volume of " private servers " in SA ( hosting all of Blizzards games [ starcraft , d1,d2,War3 , and WoW ] ) Blizzard threatened not to ship WoW - The Burning Crusade to South Africa .
This fell through as the game was oddly enough available in Zimbabwe , and so suppliers were just importing the game .
This being said , one of the main reasons PS exist in SA is because our pings to Blizzard servers ( and everywhere else in the world ) usually vary between 600-1200ms .
It can be lowered to 350 , but this requires a purchase of an unshaped account ( which sells for over R125 per gig ) .
So instead , SA gamers choose to rather enjoy a lag free game , rather than a full feature game .
And with local bandwidth costing almost 10 \ % of our " blended " bandwidth some players are almost forced into using PS .
I 'm not saying that this is a valid excuse to host PS , but sometimes when you are forced into a corner , you just have to make do with what you have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Blizzard did in fact try to take some measures a couple of years ago regarding South Africa and our fleet of Private Servers.
Because of the high volume of "private servers" in SA (hosting all of Blizzards games [starcraft, d1,d2,War3, and WoW]) Blizzard threatened not to ship WoW - The Burning Crusade to South Africa.
This fell through as the game was oddly enough available in Zimbabwe, and so suppliers were just importing the game.
This being said, one of the main reasons PS exist in SA is because our pings to Blizzard servers(and everywhere else in the world) usually vary between 600-1200ms.
It can be lowered to 350, but this requires a purchase of an unshaped account (which sells for over R125 per gig).
So instead, SA gamers choose to rather enjoy a lag free game, rather than a full feature game.
And with local bandwidth costing almost 10\% of our "blended" bandwidth some players are almost forced into using PS.
I'm not saying that this is a valid excuse to host PS, but sometimes when you are forced into a corner, you just have to make do with what you have.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363790</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Snowtred</author>
	<datestamp>1260278040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I, too, messed with the private servers for awhile, with the same results. My friends and I messed around for a few hours, and then it got boring and we went back to our real characters.</p><p>An interesting turn to this is training for raid bosses. So much time is spent clearing, ressing, gathering items, just for a wipe. You could reset to the beginning of a fight in less than a minute with teleport and item summon scripts. Get a whole raid of 25 with duplicated characters, getting 10-15 attempts on a hard boss in an hour, where it would take all day on a real server.</p><p>Then with competitive Arena battles rising with real sponsors and cash prizes like the CAL league did for Counterstrike, it could become a big issue once people realize this advantage and get organized.  Not just for WoW but the MMOs of the future, which I'm guessing will have substantial (and lucrative) competition-spectator components.</p><p>A legit strategy, cheating, or just simply "unethical" by gaming standards?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I , too , messed with the private servers for awhile , with the same results .
My friends and I messed around for a few hours , and then it got boring and we went back to our real characters.An interesting turn to this is training for raid bosses .
So much time is spent clearing , ressing , gathering items , just for a wipe .
You could reset to the beginning of a fight in less than a minute with teleport and item summon scripts .
Get a whole raid of 25 with duplicated characters , getting 10-15 attempts on a hard boss in an hour , where it would take all day on a real server.Then with competitive Arena battles rising with real sponsors and cash prizes like the CAL league did for Counterstrike , it could become a big issue once people realize this advantage and get organized .
Not just for WoW but the MMOs of the future , which I 'm guessing will have substantial ( and lucrative ) competition-spectator components.A legit strategy , cheating , or just simply " unethical " by gaming standards ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I, too, messed with the private servers for awhile, with the same results.
My friends and I messed around for a few hours, and then it got boring and we went back to our real characters.An interesting turn to this is training for raid bosses.
So much time is spent clearing, ressing, gathering items, just for a wipe.
You could reset to the beginning of a fight in less than a minute with teleport and item summon scripts.
Get a whole raid of 25 with duplicated characters, getting 10-15 attempts on a hard boss in an hour, where it would take all day on a real server.Then with competitive Arena battles rising with real sponsors and cash prizes like the CAL league did for Counterstrike, it could become a big issue once people realize this advantage and get organized.
Not just for WoW but the MMOs of the future, which I'm guessing will have substantial (and lucrative) competition-spectator components.A legit strategy, cheating, or just simply "unethical" by gaming standards?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364630</id>
	<title>Re:Irony</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260285060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe next time you should find a decent private server.<br>I know a handful of them that are fantastic.</p><p>Sounds like you had the unfortunate bad luck to play on a funserver without los support compiled.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe next time you should find a decent private server.I know a handful of them that are fantastic.Sounds like you had the unfortunate bad luck to play on a funserver without los support compiled .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe next time you should find a decent private server.I know a handful of them that are fantastic.Sounds like you had the unfortunate bad luck to play on a funserver without los support compiled.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363872</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364676</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>CapnStank</author>
	<datestamp>1260285300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I humbly disagree. I know your post comes off as very whiney and potentially a troll but in the Arena competition the gear is equal. You pick the gear you want and it removes the element of randomness. So when everyone is on the same gear plateau what establishes a better player? Skill. RND only accounts for a small bit and that is no different from the majority of sports out there.<br> <br>
Sure games like Starcraft (the only one I have personal experience with on your list) may require a different set of skills but when you watch the pros there are very few innovative players. There's the 2 or 3 typical builds for each race/race match-up and the only time you see variation is when someone is in a position that a loss means nothing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I humbly disagree .
I know your post comes off as very whiney and potentially a troll but in the Arena competition the gear is equal .
You pick the gear you want and it removes the element of randomness .
So when everyone is on the same gear plateau what establishes a better player ?
Skill. RND only accounts for a small bit and that is no different from the majority of sports out there .
Sure games like Starcraft ( the only one I have personal experience with on your list ) may require a different set of skills but when you watch the pros there are very few innovative players .
There 's the 2 or 3 typical builds for each race/race match-up and the only time you see variation is when someone is in a position that a loss means nothing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I humbly disagree.
I know your post comes off as very whiney and potentially a troll but in the Arena competition the gear is equal.
You pick the gear you want and it removes the element of randomness.
So when everyone is on the same gear plateau what establishes a better player?
Skill. RND only accounts for a small bit and that is no different from the majority of sports out there.
Sure games like Starcraft (the only one I have personal experience with on your list) may require a different set of skills but when you watch the pros there are very few innovative players.
There's the 2 or 3 typical builds for each race/race match-up and the only time you see variation is when someone is in a position that a loss means nothing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30372812</id>
	<title>Re:The poor corporate victim</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260280560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The principle is simple.  You pay them 50 cents a day and they let you spend as many hours on their servers as you want.  It is win-win for everyone until you bring an unwarranted sense of entitlement to the table.  It's not food or medicine that Blizzard sells, its freaking entertainment.  You CAN go without it and going without it would probably actually be good for you.  If you don't like their terms, go elsewhere.</p></div><p>And that's *exactly* what the person wants to do. They bought this client software, and they want to take it elsewhere. If I (cough) buy a web browser to look at someone's webpage, I can also view other web pages. If I buy a hockey stick to play in an arena, I can take it and play on the street. If I buy a screw driver I can use it to open paint cans.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The principle is simple .
You pay them 50 cents a day and they let you spend as many hours on their servers as you want .
It is win-win for everyone until you bring an unwarranted sense of entitlement to the table .
It 's not food or medicine that Blizzard sells , its freaking entertainment .
You CAN go without it and going without it would probably actually be good for you .
If you do n't like their terms , go elsewhere.And that 's * exactly * what the person wants to do .
They bought this client software , and they want to take it elsewhere .
If I ( cough ) buy a web browser to look at someone 's webpage , I can also view other web pages .
If I buy a hockey stick to play in an arena , I can take it and play on the street .
If I buy a screw driver I can use it to open paint cans .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The principle is simple.
You pay them 50 cents a day and they let you spend as many hours on their servers as you want.
It is win-win for everyone until you bring an unwarranted sense of entitlement to the table.
It's not food or medicine that Blizzard sells, its freaking entertainment.
You CAN go without it and going without it would probably actually be good for you.
If you don't like their terms, go elsewhere.And that's *exactly* what the person wants to do.
They bought this client software, and they want to take it elsewhere.
If I (cough) buy a web browser to look at someone's webpage, I can also view other web pages.
If I buy a hockey stick to play in an arena, I can take it and play on the street.
If I buy a screw driver I can use it to open paint cans.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30366142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363828</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260278520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyway, any online games are designed to create addiction and so there will likely be class action suits against companies like Blizzard in the longer run and they will likely loose them. Having that in mind it might be smarter if they open up their servers and focus on getting paid for content they create. Personally I don't care because don't buy games that tie me to a server with a subscription model.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyway , any online games are designed to create addiction and so there will likely be class action suits against companies like Blizzard in the longer run and they will likely loose them .
Having that in mind it might be smarter if they open up their servers and focus on getting paid for content they create .
Personally I do n't care because do n't buy games that tie me to a server with a subscription model .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyway, any online games are designed to create addiction and so there will likely be class action suits against companies like Blizzard in the longer run and they will likely loose them.
Having that in mind it might be smarter if they open up their servers and focus on getting paid for content they create.
Personally I don't care because don't buy games that tie me to a server with a subscription model.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364292</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260283020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For me, it was not about being cheap as much as it was about seeing content I had not experienced. I paid for 3 pieces of software and a few years of account time (about 9 months of which I did not even log into the servers once). I quit and didn't learn about private servers until recently. Great for exploring the content but certainly lacking the scope and richness of live servers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For me , it was not about being cheap as much as it was about seeing content I had not experienced .
I paid for 3 pieces of software and a few years of account time ( about 9 months of which I did not even log into the servers once ) .
I quit and did n't learn about private servers until recently .
Great for exploring the content but certainly lacking the scope and richness of live servers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For me, it was not about being cheap as much as it was about seeing content I had not experienced.
I paid for 3 pieces of software and a few years of account time (about 9 months of which I did not even log into the servers once).
I quit and didn't learn about private servers until recently.
Great for exploring the content but certainly lacking the scope and richness of live servers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363930</id>
	<title>Re:Legality</title>
	<author>daid303</author>
	<datestamp>1260279840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The quests, NPCs and quite some other content is handed by the server. And might fall under intellectual property rights. As far as I know not a single MMORPG maker has gone to court with people running private servers. Usually they just send a letter threating action, and most private servers close down on that (as run by a group of friends, most of them don't have the finance or the guts to go to court over something like that)</p><p>Some distribute full modified client versions, which is a copyright violation.</p><p>But in the end, most private servers are left alone for a simple reason. They are not big enough, and full of people that wouldn't play otherwise.</p><p>I've played on a private Ragnarok Online server for years. Lots of fun, met quite a few people there. (Unlike WoW, RO can work with just a small group of people) We never got in trouble for running that server, and we did client distribution with torrents.<br>Private RO servers are way better then the offical thing btw, free, almost no lag, less bugs. They just lack the newest features sometimes, but not having 500ms ping times made up for that.</p><p>In the end the server died because there where better alternatives (in MMO land), so a group of us started to play WoW. Now, of our RO group, atleast 10 people have started to play WoW. Offical server, so a private server actually did good for Blizzard in this case.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The quests , NPCs and quite some other content is handed by the server .
And might fall under intellectual property rights .
As far as I know not a single MMORPG maker has gone to court with people running private servers .
Usually they just send a letter threating action , and most private servers close down on that ( as run by a group of friends , most of them do n't have the finance or the guts to go to court over something like that ) Some distribute full modified client versions , which is a copyright violation.But in the end , most private servers are left alone for a simple reason .
They are not big enough , and full of people that would n't play otherwise.I 've played on a private Ragnarok Online server for years .
Lots of fun , met quite a few people there .
( Unlike WoW , RO can work with just a small group of people ) We never got in trouble for running that server , and we did client distribution with torrents.Private RO servers are way better then the offical thing btw , free , almost no lag , less bugs .
They just lack the newest features sometimes , but not having 500ms ping times made up for that.In the end the server died because there where better alternatives ( in MMO land ) , so a group of us started to play WoW .
Now , of our RO group , atleast 10 people have started to play WoW .
Offical server , so a private server actually did good for Blizzard in this case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The quests, NPCs and quite some other content is handed by the server.
And might fall under intellectual property rights.
As far as I know not a single MMORPG maker has gone to court with people running private servers.
Usually they just send a letter threating action, and most private servers close down on that (as run by a group of friends, most of them don't have the finance or the guts to go to court over something like that)Some distribute full modified client versions, which is a copyright violation.But in the end, most private servers are left alone for a simple reason.
They are not big enough, and full of people that wouldn't play otherwise.I've played on a private Ragnarok Online server for years.
Lots of fun, met quite a few people there.
(Unlike WoW, RO can work with just a small group of people) We never got in trouble for running that server, and we did client distribution with torrents.Private RO servers are way better then the offical thing btw, free, almost no lag, less bugs.
They just lack the newest features sometimes, but not having 500ms ping times made up for that.In the end the server died because there where better alternatives (in MMO land), so a group of us started to play WoW.
Now, of our RO group, atleast 10 people have started to play WoW.
Offical server, so a private server actually did good for Blizzard in this case.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363802</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30365626</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260289440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Blizzard haven't really fight against the private servers good afaik, and why would they - anyone who has ever tried any of them knows how crappy they are.</p></div><p>How crappy they are?  I don't know about you, but even though I could pay for the game if I wanted to, I play on a private server because it offers a superior gameplay experience.</p><p>The things I like on the server I play on are the low player count (maybe I'm just an oldfag for being into MUDs and whatnot, but I don't want to be in a game where there are more than 1000 players per server, you get to know the people you play with across the whole player base, and not just who's in your guild), permanent death (when you die, your character gets erased) and unrestricted PVP (even within the same faction).</p><p>When Blizzard starts capping servers at 1000 players per Realm, and making death really be death, and not just a 30-45 second long inconvenience I'll start paying for the game again, but until then I'll be a "pirate" and play the game where it is more like the game I want to play.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Blizzard have n't really fight against the private servers good afaik , and why would they - anyone who has ever tried any of them knows how crappy they are.How crappy they are ?
I do n't know about you , but even though I could pay for the game if I wanted to , I play on a private server because it offers a superior gameplay experience.The things I like on the server I play on are the low player count ( maybe I 'm just an oldfag for being into MUDs and whatnot , but I do n't want to be in a game where there are more than 1000 players per server , you get to know the people you play with across the whole player base , and not just who 's in your guild ) , permanent death ( when you die , your character gets erased ) and unrestricted PVP ( even within the same faction ) .When Blizzard starts capping servers at 1000 players per Realm , and making death really be death , and not just a 30-45 second long inconvenience I 'll start paying for the game again , but until then I 'll be a " pirate " and play the game where it is more like the game I want to play .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Blizzard haven't really fight against the private servers good afaik, and why would they - anyone who has ever tried any of them knows how crappy they are.How crappy they are?
I don't know about you, but even though I could pay for the game if I wanted to, I play on a private server because it offers a superior gameplay experience.The things I like on the server I play on are the low player count (maybe I'm just an oldfag for being into MUDs and whatnot, but I don't want to be in a game where there are more than 1000 players per server, you get to know the people you play with across the whole player base, and not just who's in your guild), permanent death (when you die, your character gets erased) and unrestricted PVP (even within the same faction).When Blizzard starts capping servers at 1000 players per Realm, and making death really be death, and not just a 30-45 second long inconvenience I'll start paying for the game again, but until then I'll be a "pirate" and play the game where it is more like the game I want to play.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30371068</id>
	<title>Re:Legality</title>
	<author>lordkuri</author>
	<datestamp>1260270240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>As far as I know not a single MMORPG maker has gone to court with people running private servers.</i></p><p><a href="http://www.eff.org/cases/blizzard-v-bnetd" title="eff.org">http://www.eff.org/cases/blizzard-v-bnetd</a> [eff.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as I know not a single MMORPG maker has gone to court with people running private servers.http : //www.eff.org/cases/blizzard-v-bnetd [ eff.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as I know not a single MMORPG maker has gone to court with people running private servers.http://www.eff.org/cases/blizzard-v-bnetd [eff.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363930</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364110</id>
	<title>Re:Legality</title>
	<author>langelgjm</author>
	<datestamp>1260282000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, it just sounds like a typical corporate line about intellectual property. If the server is reimplemented (as opposed to downloaded off some warez site) by reverse engineering, seems to me the most it could be is an EULA violation. EULA probably states something like "you may only use this client to connect to authorized servers, etc."</p><p>Depending on the particular mechanisms involved, you might be able to argue that skipping the license check is a violation of the DMCA (for example, if the private server has to falsify a credential and return it to the client, and this takes place via a process of breaking an circumvention mechanism), but that's the only thing I can come up with off the top of my head.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , it just sounds like a typical corporate line about intellectual property .
If the server is reimplemented ( as opposed to downloaded off some warez site ) by reverse engineering , seems to me the most it could be is an EULA violation .
EULA probably states something like " you may only use this client to connect to authorized servers , etc .
" Depending on the particular mechanisms involved , you might be able to argue that skipping the license check is a violation of the DMCA ( for example , if the private server has to falsify a credential and return it to the client , and this takes place via a process of breaking an circumvention mechanism ) , but that 's the only thing I can come up with off the top of my head .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, it just sounds like a typical corporate line about intellectual property.
If the server is reimplemented (as opposed to downloaded off some warez site) by reverse engineering, seems to me the most it could be is an EULA violation.
EULA probably states something like "you may only use this client to connect to authorized servers, etc.
"Depending on the particular mechanisms involved, you might be able to argue that skipping the license check is a violation of the DMCA (for example, if the private server has to falsify a credential and return it to the client, and this takes place via a process of breaking an circumvention mechanism), but that's the only thing I can come up with off the top of my head.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363802</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30369698</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>SleazyRidr</author>
	<datestamp>1260263640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><tt>&lt;quote&gt;The sad part here is people who might for cheapness reasons to play on those servers instead and think the game is crap, while in fact the server just sucks.&lt;/quote&gt;<br><br>It wouldn't surprise me to learn that this is their major motivation for this type of action. Lots of people will try out the cheaper option before shelling out for the full game, and too many crap servers might just cut this section out of their bottom line.<br><br></tt></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The sad part here is people who might for cheapness reasons to play on those servers instead and think the game is crap , while in fact the server just sucks.It would n't surprise me to learn that this is their major motivation for this type of action .
Lots of people will try out the cheaper option before shelling out for the full game , and too many crap servers might just cut this section out of their bottom line .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sad part here is people who might for cheapness reasons to play on those servers instead and think the game is crap, while in fact the server just sucks.It wouldn't surprise me to learn that this is their major motivation for this type of action.
Lots of people will try out the cheaper option before shelling out for the full game, and too many crap servers might just cut this section out of their bottom line.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364368</id>
	<title>Freedom is feature, invest in it!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260283440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When will gamers learn that they shouldn't be modifying proprietary software, which they don't own?</p><p>Modify something that wants you to modify it or allows you to modify it.</p><p>You simply don't have the right and it has been proven in court (battle.net).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When will gamers learn that they should n't be modifying proprietary software , which they do n't own ? Modify something that wants you to modify it or allows you to modify it.You simply do n't have the right and it has been proven in court ( battle.net ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When will gamers learn that they shouldn't be modifying proprietary software, which they don't own?Modify something that wants you to modify it or allows you to modify it.You simply don't have the right and it has been proven in court (battle.net).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30365112</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Vintermann</author>
	<datestamp>1260287280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The swedish Epilogue server sounds interesting in that sense. I bet permadeath changes the character of an mmorpg rather much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The swedish Epilogue server sounds interesting in that sense .
I bet permadeath changes the character of an mmorpg rather much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The swedish Epilogue server sounds interesting in that sense.
I bet permadeath changes the character of an mmorpg rather much.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363872</id>
	<title>Irony</title>
	<author>pdusen</author>
	<datestamp>1260279060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The fact of the matter is that, at least in the case of WoW, private servers are downright terrible. They are so incredibly bad that, after spending a few weeks trying some different ones, I was actually <strong>driven to</strong> spend money on the real deal to have a decent gameplay experience.</p><p>Besides obvious problems like population shortage, all the servers I tried had two things in common; the first was XP scaling. In every server I tried, without fail, the exp scaling was always either too low, making it impossible to level properly through normal questing, or far, FAR too high, to the point that you'd finish a quest and have to walk a few miles to find another one you could get XP for.</p><p>The second problem common to all of these servers is really stupid glitches, especially terrain glitches. They come in all shapes and sizes. On every private server I tried, it is basically impossible to do any quest around small houses or in a mine (unless you are part of a party or already too high of a level), because as soon as a mob notices you, ten or so mobs <strong>in other rooms</strong> notice you and charge you through the walls. On servers that already have trouble with not dealing out enough XP this is pretty damn frustrating.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The fact of the matter is that , at least in the case of WoW , private servers are downright terrible .
They are so incredibly bad that , after spending a few weeks trying some different ones , I was actually driven to spend money on the real deal to have a decent gameplay experience.Besides obvious problems like population shortage , all the servers I tried had two things in common ; the first was XP scaling .
In every server I tried , without fail , the exp scaling was always either too low , making it impossible to level properly through normal questing , or far , FAR too high , to the point that you 'd finish a quest and have to walk a few miles to find another one you could get XP for.The second problem common to all of these servers is really stupid glitches , especially terrain glitches .
They come in all shapes and sizes .
On every private server I tried , it is basically impossible to do any quest around small houses or in a mine ( unless you are part of a party or already too high of a level ) , because as soon as a mob notices you , ten or so mobs in other rooms notice you and charge you through the walls .
On servers that already have trouble with not dealing out enough XP this is pretty damn frustrating .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fact of the matter is that, at least in the case of WoW, private servers are downright terrible.
They are so incredibly bad that, after spending a few weeks trying some different ones, I was actually driven to spend money on the real deal to have a decent gameplay experience.Besides obvious problems like population shortage, all the servers I tried had two things in common; the first was XP scaling.
In every server I tried, without fail, the exp scaling was always either too low, making it impossible to level properly through normal questing, or far, FAR too high, to the point that you'd finish a quest and have to walk a few miles to find another one you could get XP for.The second problem common to all of these servers is really stupid glitches, especially terrain glitches.
They come in all shapes and sizes.
On every private server I tried, it is basically impossible to do any quest around small houses or in a mine (unless you are part of a party or already too high of a level), because as soon as a mob notices you, ten or so mobs in other rooms notice you and charge you through the walls.
On servers that already have trouble with not dealing out enough XP this is pretty damn frustrating.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30366676</id>
	<title>Why don't we see more OSS MMO contributors?</title>
	<author>dave1791</author>
	<datestamp>1260293640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously, for all of the "corporate bashing" in this thread; either complaining about subscription models or justifying reverse engineering, why is it that open source MMO projects don&rsquo;t thrive?  I remember when Ryzom was up for sale and a former community manager launched a very public campaign to raise funds to open source it.  There was a lot of buzz.  After it fell through, at least two OSS MMO projects sprung up from it; one game project which died within a week and another framework project which has one active developer (me) three years later.  At least four other framework and game projects (Planeshift, WorldForge, Open NEL, Peragro Tempus) also tried to recruit among that populace.  Of them, three are limping along with 1-3 active developers with only Planeshift having an active development community.</p><p>So why are people not clamoring to work on OSS MMO frameworks so that communities can run OSS worlds?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , for all of the " corporate bashing " in this thread ; either complaining about subscription models or justifying reverse engineering , why is it that open source MMO projects don    t thrive ?
I remember when Ryzom was up for sale and a former community manager launched a very public campaign to raise funds to open source it .
There was a lot of buzz .
After it fell through , at least two OSS MMO projects sprung up from it ; one game project which died within a week and another framework project which has one active developer ( me ) three years later .
At least four other framework and game projects ( Planeshift , WorldForge , Open NEL , Peragro Tempus ) also tried to recruit among that populace .
Of them , three are limping along with 1-3 active developers with only Planeshift having an active development community.So why are people not clamoring to work on OSS MMO frameworks so that communities can run OSS worlds ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, for all of the "corporate bashing" in this thread; either complaining about subscription models or justifying reverse engineering, why is it that open source MMO projects don’t thrive?
I remember when Ryzom was up for sale and a former community manager launched a very public campaign to raise funds to open source it.
There was a lot of buzz.
After it fell through, at least two OSS MMO projects sprung up from it; one game project which died within a week and another framework project which has one active developer (me) three years later.
At least four other framework and game projects (Planeshift, WorldForge, Open NEL, Peragro Tempus) also tried to recruit among that populace.
Of them, three are limping along with 1-3 active developers with only Planeshift having an active development community.So why are people not clamoring to work on OSS MMO frameworks so that communities can run OSS worlds?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363826</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260278520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had hoped that setting up a private server and making myself a game master would ruin WoW... I was only able to quit playing Diablo after going online and discovering that all of the items I had worked hard to obtain were widely available because everybody was cheating. The cheating ruined it. I figured the same thing would work for WoW - give myself all the epic loots and one-shot the toughest boss, and suddenly the futility of the whole thing becomes obvious.</p><p>Unfortunately, it didn't work like that, due to the poor quality of third-party servers. Lots of things were not implemented. Bosses and traders did not work properly, and the only exercise of any interest was teleporting to normally-inaccessible areas.</p><p>Incidentally, I remember complaining to Blizzard about Diablo, and suggesting that maybe a set of central servers could be set up to track items and prevent duplication. I was told that the costs of doing this would be too high, it would be too laggy, and that I was a retard for even considering it. WoW came out a few years later...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had hoped that setting up a private server and making myself a game master would ruin WoW... I was only able to quit playing Diablo after going online and discovering that all of the items I had worked hard to obtain were widely available because everybody was cheating .
The cheating ruined it .
I figured the same thing would work for WoW - give myself all the epic loots and one-shot the toughest boss , and suddenly the futility of the whole thing becomes obvious.Unfortunately , it did n't work like that , due to the poor quality of third-party servers .
Lots of things were not implemented .
Bosses and traders did not work properly , and the only exercise of any interest was teleporting to normally-inaccessible areas.Incidentally , I remember complaining to Blizzard about Diablo , and suggesting that maybe a set of central servers could be set up to track items and prevent duplication .
I was told that the costs of doing this would be too high , it would be too laggy , and that I was a retard for even considering it .
WoW came out a few years later.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had hoped that setting up a private server and making myself a game master would ruin WoW... I was only able to quit playing Diablo after going online and discovering that all of the items I had worked hard to obtain were widely available because everybody was cheating.
The cheating ruined it.
I figured the same thing would work for WoW - give myself all the epic loots and one-shot the toughest boss, and suddenly the futility of the whole thing becomes obvious.Unfortunately, it didn't work like that, due to the poor quality of third-party servers.
Lots of things were not implemented.
Bosses and traders did not work properly, and the only exercise of any interest was teleporting to normally-inaccessible areas.Incidentally, I remember complaining to Blizzard about Diablo, and suggesting that maybe a set of central servers could be set up to track items and prevent duplication.
I was told that the costs of doing this would be too high, it would be too laggy, and that I was a retard for even considering it.
WoW came out a few years later...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30365088</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Vintermann</author>
	<datestamp>1260287160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"[...] and we went back to our real characters."</p><p>Interesting choice of words.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" [ ... ] and we went back to our real characters .
" Interesting choice of words .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"[...] and we went back to our real characters.
"Interesting choice of words.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363790</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30367556</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>scot4875</author>
	<datestamp>1260298020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When players' gear is equal, latency comes next in who has the advantage.  When I charge an opponent and end up 10 yards away, and someone else charges me and is immediately able to start hacking away,  that's all due to client side latency.  When I'm tracking my opponent with mouse turning as they jump around in circles and all I ever see is "target must be in front of you" while they happily land every blow, that's client side latency.  When my opponent is pinging the server with sub-50ms round trips and I'm hovering between 150 and 300, there isn't a whole hell of a lot I can do.</p><p>So Gear &gt; Latency &gt; Skill.  Personally, I'd rather play something where skill ranks a little higher in importance.  PvE isn't a whole lot better in that regard.</p><p>But that's really beside the point anyway -- small-scale PvP in WoW is almost entirely about stuns, disorients, fears, and silence.  It's very poorly designed and executed (witness the countless game changing class rebalances centered *solely* on arenas), and really not a whole lot of fun to play, when half the time you're not even in control of your character.</p><p>--Jeremy</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When players ' gear is equal , latency comes next in who has the advantage .
When I charge an opponent and end up 10 yards away , and someone else charges me and is immediately able to start hacking away , that 's all due to client side latency .
When I 'm tracking my opponent with mouse turning as they jump around in circles and all I ever see is " target must be in front of you " while they happily land every blow , that 's client side latency .
When my opponent is pinging the server with sub-50ms round trips and I 'm hovering between 150 and 300 , there is n't a whole hell of a lot I can do.So Gear &gt; Latency &gt; Skill .
Personally , I 'd rather play something where skill ranks a little higher in importance .
PvE is n't a whole lot better in that regard.But that 's really beside the point anyway -- small-scale PvP in WoW is almost entirely about stuns , disorients , fears , and silence .
It 's very poorly designed and executed ( witness the countless game changing class rebalances centered * solely * on arenas ) , and really not a whole lot of fun to play , when half the time you 're not even in control of your character.--Jeremy</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When players' gear is equal, latency comes next in who has the advantage.
When I charge an opponent and end up 10 yards away, and someone else charges me and is immediately able to start hacking away,  that's all due to client side latency.
When I'm tracking my opponent with mouse turning as they jump around in circles and all I ever see is "target must be in front of you" while they happily land every blow, that's client side latency.
When my opponent is pinging the server with sub-50ms round trips and I'm hovering between 150 and 300, there isn't a whole hell of a lot I can do.So Gear &gt; Latency &gt; Skill.
Personally, I'd rather play something where skill ranks a little higher in importance.
PvE isn't a whole lot better in that regard.But that's really beside the point anyway -- small-scale PvP in WoW is almost entirely about stuns, disorients, fears, and silence.
It's very poorly designed and executed (witness the countless game changing class rebalances centered *solely* on arenas), and really not a whole lot of fun to play, when half the time you're not even in control of your character.--Jeremy</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364676</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30369506</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>sahonen</author>
	<datestamp>1260305880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>PvP in MMOs isn't entirely unskillful, it's just more about what decisions you make with your character build and your choices of character skills to use during the fight than your ability to manipulate the controls. I agree with your basic point that there is a higher skill ceiling inherent in a game which requires practice to master the basic mechanics (I'm a gigantic fan of Quake and would rather watch a duel in there than WoW PvP any day), but basing the skill of a game more around decision-making than physical dexterity doesn't make the game unskillful... I mean, just look at chess.<br> <br>

That said, the fact that 99\% of what goes into winning a fight happens in the weeks and months spent leveling your character and gearing him up rather than during the fight itself makes for a terrible game for me. Make a bad choice at level 5 and only realize it when your level 80 isn't as strong as he should be? Too bad, have fun being level 1 again. Haven't spent a million years looking for the +5 Random Drop of Smiting? Too bad, even with an identical build you're still at a disadvantage. If the game allowed you to try out different builds without starting over, or balanced the skill tree so that just about any build had similar potential, and eliminated the artificial scarcity of powerful gear it'd be a much more compelling game to me. Likelihood of that happening? Well, considering that this is Blizzard's entire business model, not very high.</htmltext>
<tokenext>PvP in MMOs is n't entirely unskillful , it 's just more about what decisions you make with your character build and your choices of character skills to use during the fight than your ability to manipulate the controls .
I agree with your basic point that there is a higher skill ceiling inherent in a game which requires practice to master the basic mechanics ( I 'm a gigantic fan of Quake and would rather watch a duel in there than WoW PvP any day ) , but basing the skill of a game more around decision-making than physical dexterity does n't make the game unskillful... I mean , just look at chess .
That said , the fact that 99 \ % of what goes into winning a fight happens in the weeks and months spent leveling your character and gearing him up rather than during the fight itself makes for a terrible game for me .
Make a bad choice at level 5 and only realize it when your level 80 is n't as strong as he should be ?
Too bad , have fun being level 1 again .
Have n't spent a million years looking for the + 5 Random Drop of Smiting ?
Too bad , even with an identical build you 're still at a disadvantage .
If the game allowed you to try out different builds without starting over , or balanced the skill tree so that just about any build had similar potential , and eliminated the artificial scarcity of powerful gear it 'd be a much more compelling game to me .
Likelihood of that happening ?
Well , considering that this is Blizzard 's entire business model , not very high .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PvP in MMOs isn't entirely unskillful, it's just more about what decisions you make with your character build and your choices of character skills to use during the fight than your ability to manipulate the controls.
I agree with your basic point that there is a higher skill ceiling inherent in a game which requires practice to master the basic mechanics (I'm a gigantic fan of Quake and would rather watch a duel in there than WoW PvP any day), but basing the skill of a game more around decision-making than physical dexterity doesn't make the game unskillful... I mean, just look at chess.
That said, the fact that 99\% of what goes into winning a fight happens in the weeks and months spent leveling your character and gearing him up rather than during the fight itself makes for a terrible game for me.
Make a bad choice at level 5 and only realize it when your level 80 isn't as strong as he should be?
Too bad, have fun being level 1 again.
Haven't spent a million years looking for the +5 Random Drop of Smiting?
Too bad, even with an identical build you're still at a disadvantage.
If the game allowed you to try out different builds without starting over, or balanced the skill tree so that just about any build had similar potential, and eliminated the artificial scarcity of powerful gear it'd be a much more compelling game to me.
Likelihood of that happening?
Well, considering that this is Blizzard's entire business model, not very high.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364650</id>
	<title>Re:Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1260285180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I've yet to figure out the logic behind killing private servers for a first person shooter game.</i></p><p>Control? Instead of you making maps for it, they can sell you the same game again as a sequel where the only change is that the maps are different (and to keep people from complaining, let's throw in a few different weapons, which essentially means other skins).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've yet to figure out the logic behind killing private servers for a first person shooter game.Control ?
Instead of you making maps for it , they can sell you the same game again as a sequel where the only change is that the maps are different ( and to keep people from complaining , let 's throw in a few different weapons , which essentially means other skins ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've yet to figure out the logic behind killing private servers for a first person shooter game.Control?
Instead of you making maps for it, they can sell you the same game again as a sequel where the only change is that the maps are different (and to keep people from complaining, let's throw in a few different weapons, which essentially means other skins).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363822</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364146</id>
	<title>Depends on the game...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260282300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some games might be fine on private servers, but MMORPGs, especially those based on large persistant worlds like EVE Online, don't work that well on private servers. These player driven games need a large player base to work properly. Aside from bugs on those private servers and legal discussion my question is: Does it make sense to have private servers for "every" game?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some games might be fine on private servers , but MMORPGs , especially those based on large persistant worlds like EVE Online , do n't work that well on private servers .
These player driven games need a large player base to work properly .
Aside from bugs on those private servers and legal discussion my question is : Does it make sense to have private servers for " every " game ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some games might be fine on private servers, but MMORPGs, especially those based on large persistant worlds like EVE Online, don't work that well on private servers.
These player driven games need a large player base to work properly.
Aside from bugs on those private servers and legal discussion my question is: Does it make sense to have private servers for "every" game?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30365962</id>
	<title>"permanent" player death?</title>
	<author>X3J11</author>
	<datestamp>1260290880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the summary, emphasis mine:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>"had strict codes of conduct and rules, as well as a high degree of customized content (such as new currency, methods of earning experience, the ability to construct buildings and hire non-player characters, plus <b>'permanent' player death</b>) unavailable in the retail version of the game."</p></div><p>Why would anyone want to play on a server that could kill them?</p><p> <i>Player - the fat slob (anecdotal evidence to be sure) sitting in front of the computer.<br>
Character - the blob of pixels that represent the aforementioned fat slob within the game.</i> </p><p>(I'm shooting for Funny, but Insightful is okay, too).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From the summary , emphasis mine : " had strict codes of conduct and rules , as well as a high degree of customized content ( such as new currency , methods of earning experience , the ability to construct buildings and hire non-player characters , plus 'permanent ' player death ) unavailable in the retail version of the game .
" Why would anyone want to play on a server that could kill them ?
Player - the fat slob ( anecdotal evidence to be sure ) sitting in front of the computer .
Character - the blob of pixels that represent the aforementioned fat slob within the game .
( I 'm shooting for Funny , but Insightful is okay , too ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the summary, emphasis mine:"had strict codes of conduct and rules, as well as a high degree of customized content (such as new currency, methods of earning experience, the ability to construct buildings and hire non-player characters, plus 'permanent' player death) unavailable in the retail version of the game.
"Why would anyone want to play on a server that could kill them?
Player - the fat slob (anecdotal evidence to be sure) sitting in front of the computer.
Character - the blob of pixels that represent the aforementioned fat slob within the game.
(I'm shooting for Funny, but Insightful is okay, too).
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363894</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Aladrin</author>
	<datestamp>1260279360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a lot more fun on the 'pirate' server I played on than the real one thanks to the fact that I haven't got time to grind.  I was able to bring my characters to the end game and experience the plot along the way without dozens of hours of mindless grind.</p><p>Honestly, if Blizzard had offered a pay server like that, I'd choose that hands-down.  But they don't, so I didn't have any choice.  And yes, I did pay for the software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a lot more fun on the 'pirate ' server I played on than the real one thanks to the fact that I have n't got time to grind .
I was able to bring my characters to the end game and experience the plot along the way without dozens of hours of mindless grind.Honestly , if Blizzard had offered a pay server like that , I 'd choose that hands-down .
But they do n't , so I did n't have any choice .
And yes , I did pay for the software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a lot more fun on the 'pirate' server I played on than the real one thanks to the fact that I haven't got time to grind.
I was able to bring my characters to the end game and experience the plot along the way without dozens of hours of mindless grind.Honestly, if Blizzard had offered a pay server like that, I'd choose that hands-down.
But they don't, so I didn't have any choice.
And yes, I did pay for the software.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364538</id>
	<title>Re:Irony</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260284460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now imagine that you, not knowing any better, assume the real WoW servers suffer from these problems and tell people that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now imagine that you , not knowing any better , assume the real WoW servers suffer from these problems and tell people that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now imagine that you, not knowing any better, assume the real WoW servers suffer from these problems and tell people that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363872</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30365906</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Haidon</author>
	<datestamp>1260290580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I must also disagree with this.  For certain, the actual battle between 2 players could be seen as taking less skill to accomplish.  Certainly, a 1 on 1 PvE encounter takes little skill in general.  However, the raid game in these MMO's takes a great deal of skill.  A few people have to coordinate a large group of people to complete a task, and a good number of those tasks are by no means simple.


I know WoW has mitigated this to some degree, but Everquest would require a couple of strategic-minded raid leaders to properly deploy as many as 72 people against a target, with plenty of variables to take into account.  In these situations, the raid leader is like the player in Starcraft, except they don't really know if their units are going to do as they're told.   Sounds like some skill is required.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I must also disagree with this .
For certain , the actual battle between 2 players could be seen as taking less skill to accomplish .
Certainly , a 1 on 1 PvE encounter takes little skill in general .
However , the raid game in these MMO 's takes a great deal of skill .
A few people have to coordinate a large group of people to complete a task , and a good number of those tasks are by no means simple .
I know WoW has mitigated this to some degree , but Everquest would require a couple of strategic-minded raid leaders to properly deploy as many as 72 people against a target , with plenty of variables to take into account .
In these situations , the raid leader is like the player in Starcraft , except they do n't really know if their units are going to do as they 're told .
Sounds like some skill is required .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I must also disagree with this.
For certain, the actual battle between 2 players could be seen as taking less skill to accomplish.
Certainly, a 1 on 1 PvE encounter takes little skill in general.
However, the raid game in these MMO's takes a great deal of skill.
A few people have to coordinate a large group of people to complete a task, and a good number of those tasks are by no means simple.
I know WoW has mitigated this to some degree, but Everquest would require a couple of strategic-minded raid leaders to properly deploy as many as 72 people against a target, with plenty of variables to take into account.
In these situations, the raid leader is like the player in Starcraft, except they don't really know if their units are going to do as they're told.
Sounds like some skill is required.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30370760</id>
	<title>Centralized servers are a Paywall</title>
	<author>TheSpoom</author>
	<datestamp>1260268920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The reason that Blizzard et al are attempting to keep server code private is that if you only have one (or a central group of) server(s), you can tie that server into your billing / CD key verification server and make sure that people pay to play, which is not the case with private servers.</p><p>Ongoing payment is the core business reason for MMOs.  Of course they're going to use everything in their arsenal to protect it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason that Blizzard et al are attempting to keep server code private is that if you only have one ( or a central group of ) server ( s ) , you can tie that server into your billing / CD key verification server and make sure that people pay to play , which is not the case with private servers.Ongoing payment is the core business reason for MMOs .
Of course they 're going to use everything in their arsenal to protect it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason that Blizzard et al are attempting to keep server code private is that if you only have one (or a central group of) server(s), you can tie that server into your billing / CD key verification server and make sure that people pay to play, which is not the case with private servers.Ongoing payment is the core business reason for MMOs.
Of course they're going to use everything in their arsenal to protect it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364276</id>
	<title>Classic EverQuest</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260282900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There have been decent private servers for EverQuest for some time, Sony only tends to go after ones that get a player base.  More recently, the mere threat of a classic server had them sending out C&amp;Ds like nobody's business.  Anyone familiar with the game knows that it changed a great deal in the 10 years it's been around.  An eqclassic server is something their players ask for routinely and continuously are told, no.</p><p>Is running a database of the data: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/ any less illegal than running a database you need to have a copy of the client to view?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There have been decent private servers for EverQuest for some time , Sony only tends to go after ones that get a player base .
More recently , the mere threat of a classic server had them sending out C&amp;Ds like nobody 's business .
Anyone familiar with the game knows that it changed a great deal in the 10 years it 's been around .
An eqclassic server is something their players ask for routinely and continuously are told , no.Is running a database of the data : http : //lucy.allakhazam.com/ any less illegal than running a database you need to have a copy of the client to view ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There have been decent private servers for EverQuest for some time, Sony only tends to go after ones that get a player base.
More recently, the mere threat of a classic server had them sending out C&amp;Ds like nobody's business.
Anyone familiar with the game knows that it changed a great deal in the 10 years it's been around.
An eqclassic server is something their players ask for routinely and continuously are told, no.Is running a database of the data: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/ any less illegal than running a database you need to have a copy of the client to view?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30365788</id>
	<title>Companies should give up their servers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260290100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Companies should give up their servers once they close them down and allow players to save their characters locally. The number of Final Fantasy XI servers keeps going down and with Final Fantasy XIV just around the corner, sooner or later Square-Enix are going to shut down all FF XI servers.</p><p>The best thing they could do is to at least merge everyone unto a single server, make it free-to-play and just keep it going for the sake of respecting their players.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Companies should give up their servers once they close them down and allow players to save their characters locally .
The number of Final Fantasy XI servers keeps going down and with Final Fantasy XIV just around the corner , sooner or later Square-Enix are going to shut down all FF XI servers.The best thing they could do is to at least merge everyone unto a single server , make it free-to-play and just keep it going for the sake of respecting their players .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Companies should give up their servers once they close them down and allow players to save their characters locally.
The number of Final Fantasy XI servers keeps going down and with Final Fantasy XIV just around the corner, sooner or later Square-Enix are going to shut down all FF XI servers.The best thing they could do is to at least merge everyone unto a single server, make it free-to-play and just keep it going for the sake of respecting their players.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363802</id>
	<title>Legality</title>
	<author>Raumkraut</author>
	<datestamp>1260278100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The article throws around "piracy", "illegal" and "copyright infringement". But what do any of these actually have to do with the servers people run?<br>Surely all the "intellectual property" is encapsulated in the official client software (models, sounds, etc.), which more than likely was acquired legitimately from the developer/publisher, or is resident only on the official servers (dialogue, quest text, etc.). Third-party server developers only need reverse-engineer the communications protocol, and then implement their own quests and such.</p><p>Is the "illegal" action involved here no more than the violation of a EULA, or am I missing something about how these servers operate?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The article throws around " piracy " , " illegal " and " copyright infringement " .
But what do any of these actually have to do with the servers people run ? Surely all the " intellectual property " is encapsulated in the official client software ( models , sounds , etc .
) , which more than likely was acquired legitimately from the developer/publisher , or is resident only on the official servers ( dialogue , quest text , etc. ) .
Third-party server developers only need reverse-engineer the communications protocol , and then implement their own quests and such.Is the " illegal " action involved here no more than the violation of a EULA , or am I missing something about how these servers operate ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article throws around "piracy", "illegal" and "copyright infringement".
But what do any of these actually have to do with the servers people run?Surely all the "intellectual property" is encapsulated in the official client software (models, sounds, etc.
), which more than likely was acquired legitimately from the developer/publisher, or is resident only on the official servers (dialogue, quest text, etc.).
Third-party server developers only need reverse-engineer the communications protocol, and then implement their own quests and such.Is the "illegal" action involved here no more than the violation of a EULA, or am I missing something about how these servers operate?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</id>
	<title>WoW</title>
	<author>sopssa</author>
	<datestamp>1260276720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Blizzard haven't really fight against the private servers good afaik, and why would they - anyone who has ever tried any of them knows how crappy they are.</p><p>Sure, it was fun to set up my own WoW server and get some friends to join it. I had fun with the console commands, made everyone admins and we got the max levels and best items and flying mode. Some fun moments messing around for one night with some beers - but to actually play the game on such servers? No please.</p><p>MMO's are in good position because the private servers can never reach the same amount and quality of quests, other players (major part in mmo!), raiding, instances, battlegrounds or in-game economy. MMO's are <i>a lot</i> about the community and other people you play with - they make the world.</p><p>The sad part here is people who might for cheapness reasons to play on those servers instead and think the game is crap, while in fact the server just sucks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Blizzard have n't really fight against the private servers good afaik , and why would they - anyone who has ever tried any of them knows how crappy they are.Sure , it was fun to set up my own WoW server and get some friends to join it .
I had fun with the console commands , made everyone admins and we got the max levels and best items and flying mode .
Some fun moments messing around for one night with some beers - but to actually play the game on such servers ?
No please.MMO 's are in good position because the private servers can never reach the same amount and quality of quests , other players ( major part in mmo !
) , raiding , instances , battlegrounds or in-game economy .
MMO 's are a lot about the community and other people you play with - they make the world.The sad part here is people who might for cheapness reasons to play on those servers instead and think the game is crap , while in fact the server just sucks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Blizzard haven't really fight against the private servers good afaik, and why would they - anyone who has ever tried any of them knows how crappy they are.Sure, it was fun to set up my own WoW server and get some friends to join it.
I had fun with the console commands, made everyone admins and we got the max levels and best items and flying mode.
Some fun moments messing around for one night with some beers - but to actually play the game on such servers?
No please.MMO's are in good position because the private servers can never reach the same amount and quality of quests, other players (major part in mmo!
), raiding, instances, battlegrounds or in-game economy.
MMO's are a lot about the community and other people you play with - they make the world.The sad part here is people who might for cheapness reasons to play on those servers instead and think the game is crap, while in fact the server just sucks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363824</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>your\_neighbor</author>
	<datestamp>1260278520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It seems that a public private server is contraditory by simple inspection of its name. Some friends of mine host a private server, well, for private friends. The server is used mainly at night, since we work all the day. Once I was an addicted, lost one semester of college with UO. Now I dont have more the patience to PKs, being killed unadverted of a battle between those I dont care, and that sort of crap.</p><p>I work 9h for day, mental work. My spare time, which is short, is applied mainly to have fun, no spaces to frustations. Being killed is normal to the game. Being abused is other history. This is why I look forward for these private server instead of public ones. And they are not -that- free, since someone is paying some sort of billing. I help my ppl with some bucks... less than the popcorn at the theater.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems that a public private server is contraditory by simple inspection of its name .
Some friends of mine host a private server , well , for private friends .
The server is used mainly at night , since we work all the day .
Once I was an addicted , lost one semester of college with UO .
Now I dont have more the patience to PKs , being killed unadverted of a battle between those I dont care , and that sort of crap.I work 9h for day , mental work .
My spare time , which is short , is applied mainly to have fun , no spaces to frustations .
Being killed is normal to the game .
Being abused is other history .
This is why I look forward for these private server instead of public ones .
And they are not -that- free , since someone is paying some sort of billing .
I help my ppl with some bucks... less than the popcorn at the theater .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems that a public private server is contraditory by simple inspection of its name.
Some friends of mine host a private server, well, for private friends.
The server is used mainly at night, since we work all the day.
Once I was an addicted, lost one semester of college with UO.
Now I dont have more the patience to PKs, being killed unadverted of a battle between those I dont care, and that sort of crap.I work 9h for day, mental work.
My spare time, which is short, is applied mainly to have fun, no spaces to frustations.
Being killed is normal to the game.
Being abused is other history.
This is why I look forward for these private server instead of public ones.
And they are not -that- free, since someone is paying some sort of billing.
I help my ppl with some bucks... less than the popcorn at the theater.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364088</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260281880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Private servers can have other qualities. Cloning the official game servers definetly is very useless. But no one says you have to settle for that.</p><p>I had years of fun playing on private UO servers which encouraged role play. They had rules that are not enforced on the official servers, like naming.</p><p>There were also other kinds of servers which encouraged other kinds of play. Like PvP servers where you don't have to grind for equipment and skills. You just have fun with PvP.</p><p>These private servers have their share of users because these users think the official servers suck. They don't want the quests because they either think it is a mind numbing waste of time to get the items you need for the game you want to play (PvP), or they think they are too simple, repetitive and not interactive enough (RP). The people - they make the world - but the world sucks. Roleplayers don't want to be disturbed by too much out of character talk and action. PvPers don't want to waste endless hours with doing stuff they don't enjoy.</p><p>TL;DR<br>For you private servers are worse because they are different. But for others private are better because they are different.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Private servers can have other qualities .
Cloning the official game servers definetly is very useless .
But no one says you have to settle for that.I had years of fun playing on private UO servers which encouraged role play .
They had rules that are not enforced on the official servers , like naming.There were also other kinds of servers which encouraged other kinds of play .
Like PvP servers where you do n't have to grind for equipment and skills .
You just have fun with PvP.These private servers have their share of users because these users think the official servers suck .
They do n't want the quests because they either think it is a mind numbing waste of time to get the items you need for the game you want to play ( PvP ) , or they think they are too simple , repetitive and not interactive enough ( RP ) .
The people - they make the world - but the world sucks .
Roleplayers do n't want to be disturbed by too much out of character talk and action .
PvPers do n't want to waste endless hours with doing stuff they do n't enjoy.TL ; DRFor you private servers are worse because they are different .
But for others private are better because they are different .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Private servers can have other qualities.
Cloning the official game servers definetly is very useless.
But no one says you have to settle for that.I had years of fun playing on private UO servers which encouraged role play.
They had rules that are not enforced on the official servers, like naming.There were also other kinds of servers which encouraged other kinds of play.
Like PvP servers where you don't have to grind for equipment and skills.
You just have fun with PvP.These private servers have their share of users because these users think the official servers suck.
They don't want the quests because they either think it is a mind numbing waste of time to get the items you need for the game you want to play (PvP), or they think they are too simple, repetitive and not interactive enough (RP).
The people - they make the world - but the world sucks.
Roleplayers don't want to be disturbed by too much out of character talk and action.
PvPers don't want to waste endless hours with doing stuff they don't enjoy.TL;DRFor you private servers are worse because they are different.
But for others private are better because they are different.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363908</id>
	<title>Re:Legality</title>
	<author>Aladrin</author>
	<datestamp>1260279600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, that's not true.  The server doesn't just let the clients community.  It guides them, enforces the rules, and provides the spawns/drops.  That means it needs to know everything about the maps and in-game stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , that 's not true .
The server does n't just let the clients community .
It guides them , enforces the rules , and provides the spawns/drops .
That means it needs to know everything about the maps and in-game stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, that's not true.
The server doesn't just let the clients community.
It guides them, enforces the rules, and provides the spawns/drops.
That means it needs to know everything about the maps and in-game stuff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363802</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364748</id>
	<title>Re:a home for retired MMOs</title>
	<author>Orion Blastar</author>
	<datestamp>1260285660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is one project called <a href="http://www.swgemu.com//?module=About&amp;action=Show" title="swgemu.com">SWGEmu</a> [swgemu.com] that is based on <a href="http://www.swgemu.com/?module=Thegame&amp;action=Show" title="swgemu.com">Star Wars Galaxies PreCU</a> [swgemu.com]. It is the old version of Star Wars Galaxies and it is an open source server replacement for the original Star Wars Galaxies server.</p><p>It is rare to see such a project, and it is still under development, but has a lot of promises. The Star Wars Galaxies client CD-ROM costs $10 these days and one needs the original client to hook up to this new server.</p><p>The same could be done for Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault and others but it would take a lot of beta testing to make sure it is done right.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is one project called SWGEmu [ swgemu.com ] that is based on Star Wars Galaxies PreCU [ swgemu.com ] .
It is the old version of Star Wars Galaxies and it is an open source server replacement for the original Star Wars Galaxies server.It is rare to see such a project , and it is still under development , but has a lot of promises .
The Star Wars Galaxies client CD-ROM costs $ 10 these days and one needs the original client to hook up to this new server.The same could be done for Tabula Rasa , Auto Assault and others but it would take a lot of beta testing to make sure it is done right .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is one project called SWGEmu [swgemu.com] that is based on Star Wars Galaxies PreCU [swgemu.com].
It is the old version of Star Wars Galaxies and it is an open source server replacement for the original Star Wars Galaxies server.It is rare to see such a project, and it is still under development, but has a lot of promises.
The Star Wars Galaxies client CD-ROM costs $10 these days and one needs the original client to hook up to this new server.The same could be done for Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault and others but it would take a lot of beta testing to make sure it is done right.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364372</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30369394</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>pwfffff</author>
	<datestamp>1260305400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So you only play turn based games I take it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So you only play turn based games I take it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you only play turn based games I take it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30367556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30366368</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>wtbname</author>
	<datestamp>1260292440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are completely incorrect. See the other posts.</p><p>Take a small anecdotal sample. My girlfriend and I, entering a WoW Battleground together, have about a +200\% chance of winning it compared to us entering alone. Just us two working together. </p><p>Our RNG hasn't changed but our strategy, tactics, and focus have.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are completely incorrect .
See the other posts.Take a small anecdotal sample .
My girlfriend and I , entering a WoW Battleground together , have about a + 200 \ % chance of winning it compared to us entering alone .
Just us two working together .
Our RNG has n't changed but our strategy , tactics , and focus have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are completely incorrect.
See the other posts.Take a small anecdotal sample.
My girlfriend and I, entering a WoW Battleground together, have about a +200\% chance of winning it compared to us entering alone.
Just us two working together.
Our RNG hasn't changed but our strategy, tactics, and focus have.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363822</id>
	<title>Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260278520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As most of you know,</p><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern\_Warfare\_2</p><p><div class="quote"><p>For the PC version, Infinity Ward has decided to implement a new matchmaking service: IWNET working through Steam. This system is nearly identical to the console version of IWNET. Dedicated server support is removed, eliminating the ability for mods or user-created maps to be incorporated. Because the multiplayer aspect runs within Steamworks, the PunkBuster anti-cheat system utilized in previous titles has been replaced by VAC.[28] In addition, the PC version shares the same 18-player cap as the console versions (matches are a maximum of 9 vs. 9).[29] Such decisions have created some controversy amongst the PC community.</p></div><p>I played it on Xbox 360. I was saying to myself: This would have been a great game if they would have had it in a version that had :</p><p>a. A keyboard and mouse<br>b. Private servers</p><p>I could pretty much give up my Counter-Strike: Source: Gun-Game / Deathmatch addiction.</p><p>I can understand the argument for MMOs: In order to do "massive", one needs "massive servers". I've yet to figure out the logic behind killing private servers for a first person shooter game. The only FPS game which I could see needing company-hosted servers is the upcoming MAG, but that's only because it has support for up to 256 players.</p><p>The alternative is inevitable: People will make their own private servers. And guess what? When they bend over backwards to do so, they'll probably skip out on the cd-key authentication.</p><p>Oh, wait, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hns5geYKkxk&amp;feature=related" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">There is already a video of someone running a COD:MW2 private server.</a> [youtube.com]</p><p>As opposed to making private servers and allowing you to set the ground rules, they've given the average PC FPS player the finger. Guess who's giving the finger back now?</p><p>Discuss.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As most of you know,http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern \ _Warfare \ _2For the PC version , Infinity Ward has decided to implement a new matchmaking service : IWNET working through Steam .
This system is nearly identical to the console version of IWNET .
Dedicated server support is removed , eliminating the ability for mods or user-created maps to be incorporated .
Because the multiplayer aspect runs within Steamworks , the PunkBuster anti-cheat system utilized in previous titles has been replaced by VAC .
[ 28 ] In addition , the PC version shares the same 18-player cap as the console versions ( matches are a maximum of 9 vs .
9 ) . [ 29 ] Such decisions have created some controversy amongst the PC community.I played it on Xbox 360 .
I was saying to myself : This would have been a great game if they would have had it in a version that had : a. A keyboard and mouseb .
Private serversI could pretty much give up my Counter-Strike : Source : Gun-Game / Deathmatch addiction.I can understand the argument for MMOs : In order to do " massive " , one needs " massive servers " .
I 've yet to figure out the logic behind killing private servers for a first person shooter game .
The only FPS game which I could see needing company-hosted servers is the upcoming MAG , but that 's only because it has support for up to 256 players.The alternative is inevitable : People will make their own private servers .
And guess what ?
When they bend over backwards to do so , they 'll probably skip out on the cd-key authentication.Oh , wait , There is already a video of someone running a COD : MW2 private server .
[ youtube.com ] As opposed to making private servers and allowing you to set the ground rules , they 've given the average PC FPS player the finger .
Guess who 's giving the finger back now ? Discuss .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As most of you know,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern\_Warfare\_2For the PC version, Infinity Ward has decided to implement a new matchmaking service: IWNET working through Steam.
This system is nearly identical to the console version of IWNET.
Dedicated server support is removed, eliminating the ability for mods or user-created maps to be incorporated.
Because the multiplayer aspect runs within Steamworks, the PunkBuster anti-cheat system utilized in previous titles has been replaced by VAC.
[28] In addition, the PC version shares the same 18-player cap as the console versions (matches are a maximum of 9 vs.
9).[29] Such decisions have created some controversy amongst the PC community.I played it on Xbox 360.
I was saying to myself: This would have been a great game if they would have had it in a version that had :a. A keyboard and mouseb.
Private serversI could pretty much give up my Counter-Strike: Source: Gun-Game / Deathmatch addiction.I can understand the argument for MMOs: In order to do "massive", one needs "massive servers".
I've yet to figure out the logic behind killing private servers for a first person shooter game.
The only FPS game which I could see needing company-hosted servers is the upcoming MAG, but that's only because it has support for up to 256 players.The alternative is inevitable: People will make their own private servers.
And guess what?
When they bend over backwards to do so, they'll probably skip out on the cd-key authentication.Oh, wait, There is already a video of someone running a COD:MW2 private server.
[youtube.com]As opposed to making private servers and allowing you to set the ground rules, they've given the average PC FPS player the finger.
Guess who's giving the finger back now?Discuss.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30366844</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Idiomatick</author>
	<datestamp>1260294540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>RO private servers are often better than official servers. So it can be done well, just there is a terrible signal:noise ratio.</htmltext>
<tokenext>RO private servers are often better than official servers .
So it can be done well , just there is a terrible signal : noise ratio .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RO private servers are often better than official servers.
So it can be done well, just there is a terrible signal:noise ratio.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363794</id>
	<title>*yawn*</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260278040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"amount and quality of quests, other players (major part in mmo!), raiding, instances, battlegrounds or in-game economy. MMO's are a lot about the community and other people you play with - they make the world."</p><p>Sounds kinda like...'erm....Wall Street.  Should try that other MMO called "real life."  Some folks even manage to eke out a living by playing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" amount and quality of quests , other players ( major part in mmo !
) , raiding , instances , battlegrounds or in-game economy .
MMO 's are a lot about the community and other people you play with - they make the world .
" Sounds kinda like...'erm....Wall Street .
Should try that other MMO called " real life .
" Some folks even manage to eke out a living by playing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"amount and quality of quests, other players (major part in mmo!
), raiding, instances, battlegrounds or in-game economy.
MMO's are a lot about the community and other people you play with - they make the world.
"Sounds kinda like...'erm....Wall Street.
Should try that other MMO called "real life.
"  Some folks even manage to eke out a living by playing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30365698</id>
	<title>we need more alternatives</title>
	<author>bl8n8r</author>
	<datestamp>1260289740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wish there was an alternative platform that wasn't so damned tied into the corporate money-hungry mindset.  The only reason this is an issue is because the priority is money, rather than having fun. I'll stick to ID games that can be hacked and extended without all the corporate bullsh#t.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wish there was an alternative platform that was n't so damned tied into the corporate money-hungry mindset .
The only reason this is an issue is because the priority is money , rather than having fun .
I 'll stick to ID games that can be hacked and extended without all the corporate bullsh # t .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wish there was an alternative platform that wasn't so damned tied into the corporate money-hungry mindset.
The only reason this is an issue is because the priority is money, rather than having fun.
I'll stick to ID games that can be hacked and extended without all the corporate bullsh#t.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364152</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260282300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Blizzard haven't really fight against the private servers good afaik</i></p><p>Then you haven't been paying attention. From the days of bnetd Blizzard has been very active in harassing the private server community. Loads of WoW emulator projects have been abandoned because of c&amp;d letters. And I know 2 people personally who had been running rather successful (as in 2k+ players) non-profit mangos servers who have received a c&amp;d.</p><p>Full disclosure: I've bought over a thousand euros worth of Blizzards products over the years (I own about 10 copies of W2 and D2 for instance, for lan party purposes), I run both a pvpgn and a mangos server, for a quick starcraft/diablo 2/wow fix for me and my friends. I run private servers because I got tired of having to live Gabe's Dickwad theory, on my servers *I* control who plays. I'll probably skip Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2, there is only so much abuse I can take, and trying to get me to cough up 3 times for sc3 just to get all the campaigns is more than infuriating. I would  probably ended up buying several copies of sc3 for convenience, but I flat out refuse to be bullied. It doesn't really matter what I play, the people whom I play with matter a hell of a lot more to me. Private servers all the way!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Blizzard have n't really fight against the private servers good afaikThen you have n't been paying attention .
From the days of bnetd Blizzard has been very active in harassing the private server community .
Loads of WoW emulator projects have been abandoned because of c&amp;d letters .
And I know 2 people personally who had been running rather successful ( as in 2k + players ) non-profit mangos servers who have received a c&amp;d.Full disclosure : I 've bought over a thousand euros worth of Blizzards products over the years ( I own about 10 copies of W2 and D2 for instance , for lan party purposes ) , I run both a pvpgn and a mangos server , for a quick starcraft/diablo 2/wow fix for me and my friends .
I run private servers because I got tired of having to live Gabe 's Dickwad theory , on my servers * I * control who plays .
I 'll probably skip Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 , there is only so much abuse I can take , and trying to get me to cough up 3 times for sc3 just to get all the campaigns is more than infuriating .
I would probably ended up buying several copies of sc3 for convenience , but I flat out refuse to be bullied .
It does n't really matter what I play , the people whom I play with matter a hell of a lot more to me .
Private servers all the way !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Blizzard haven't really fight against the private servers good afaikThen you haven't been paying attention.
From the days of bnetd Blizzard has been very active in harassing the private server community.
Loads of WoW emulator projects have been abandoned because of c&amp;d letters.
And I know 2 people personally who had been running rather successful (as in 2k+ players) non-profit mangos servers who have received a c&amp;d.Full disclosure: I've bought over a thousand euros worth of Blizzards products over the years (I own about 10 copies of W2 and D2 for instance, for lan party purposes), I run both a pvpgn and a mangos server, for a quick starcraft/diablo 2/wow fix for me and my friends.
I run private servers because I got tired of having to live Gabe's Dickwad theory, on my servers *I* control who plays.
I'll probably skip Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2, there is only so much abuse I can take, and trying to get me to cough up 3 times for sc3 just to get all the campaigns is more than infuriating.
I would  probably ended up buying several copies of sc3 for convenience, but I flat out refuse to be bullied.
It doesn't really matter what I play, the people whom I play with matter a hell of a lot more to me.
Private servers all the way!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364076</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>runyonave</author>
	<datestamp>1260281820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Competition in WOW or any other point and click mmorpg is a JOKE. There is no skill involved. You just point click and hope your damage multiplier plays in your favour. All luck.</p><p>Now games that require actual skill and strategy like Street Fighter 4, Starcraft or DMC on DMD mode can be played competitively.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Competition in WOW or any other point and click mmorpg is a JOKE .
There is no skill involved .
You just point click and hope your damage multiplier plays in your favour .
All luck.Now games that require actual skill and strategy like Street Fighter 4 , Starcraft or DMC on DMD mode can be played competitively .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Competition in WOW or any other point and click mmorpg is a JOKE.
There is no skill involved.
You just point click and hope your damage multiplier plays in your favour.
All luck.Now games that require actual skill and strategy like Street Fighter 4, Starcraft or DMC on DMD mode can be played competitively.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363790</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30373612</id>
	<title>Re:The poor corporate victim</title>
	<author>BikeHelmet</author>
	<datestamp>1260287520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The principle is simple. <b>You pay them 50 cents a day</b> and they let you spend as many hours on their servers as you want. It is win-win for everyone until you bring an unwarranted sense of entitlement to the table. It's not food or medicine that Blizzard sells, its freaking entertainment. You CAN go without it and going without it would probably actually be good for you. If you don't like their terms, go elsewhere.</p></div><p>Not really, no. I would agree if they only charged you for days that you logged in on, but that's not the case.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The principle is simple .
You pay them 50 cents a day and they let you spend as many hours on their servers as you want .
It is win-win for everyone until you bring an unwarranted sense of entitlement to the table .
It 's not food or medicine that Blizzard sells , its freaking entertainment .
You CAN go without it and going without it would probably actually be good for you .
If you do n't like their terms , go elsewhere.Not really , no .
I would agree if they only charged you for days that you logged in on , but that 's not the case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The principle is simple.
You pay them 50 cents a day and they let you spend as many hours on their servers as you want.
It is win-win for everyone until you bring an unwarranted sense of entitlement to the table.
It's not food or medicine that Blizzard sells, its freaking entertainment.
You CAN go without it and going without it would probably actually be good for you.
If you don't like their terms, go elsewhere.Not really, no.
I would agree if they only charged you for days that you logged in on, but that's not the case.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30366142</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364732</id>
	<title>The poor corporate victim</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260285600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr><i>...and that responsibility compels us to protect our rights.</i>

</p><p>I always love it when some major corporation making billions of dollars plays themselves off as some kind of victim.  They were forced into it.  Right.  Reminds me of the the mob.  We's didn't want to whack Joey, but der was no other choice.  Hey, he was gonna rat, we had to do it.

</p><p>Those poor, poor mega-billion dollar corporations.  So victimized.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...and that responsibility compels us to protect our rights .
I always love it when some major corporation making billions of dollars plays themselves off as some kind of victim .
They were forced into it .
Right. Reminds me of the the mob .
We 's did n't want to whack Joey , but der was no other choice .
Hey , he was gon na rat , we had to do it .
Those poor , poor mega-billion dollar corporations .
So victimized .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...and that responsibility compels us to protect our rights.
I always love it when some major corporation making billions of dollars plays themselves off as some kind of victim.
They were forced into it.
Right.  Reminds me of the the mob.
We's didn't want to whack Joey, but der was no other choice.
Hey, he was gonna rat, we had to do it.
Those poor, poor mega-billion dollar corporations.
So victimized.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364372</id>
	<title>a home for retired MMOs</title>
	<author>spyrochaete</author>
	<datestamp>1260283500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wish decommissioned MMOs like Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault could be released to the public for private server admins to host.  Unlikely to happen, so it remains my wish.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wish decommissioned MMOs like Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault could be released to the public for private server admins to host .
Unlikely to happen , so it remains my wish .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wish decommissioned MMOs like Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault could be released to the public for private server admins to host.
Unlikely to happen, so it remains my wish.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363878</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260279120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey sopssa &gt;&gt;</p><p>Did you read the initial post?</p><p>Quote:   "...put up his own WoW server because the game "wasn't available in the country at the time."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey sopssa &gt; &gt; Did you read the initial post ? Quote : " ...put up his own WoW server because the game " was n't available in the country at the time .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey sopssa &gt;&gt;Did you read the initial post?Quote:   "...put up his own WoW server because the game "wasn't available in the country at the time.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363694</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30374196</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>sahonen</author>
	<datestamp>1260294780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I honestly don't see why having to grind through 80 levels just to try out a different character build that may or may not actually work should be necessary. Giving players the ability to try out a few different builds in a private server can only increase the level of competition, it's not cheating, it's training. Real-life athletes spend countless hours off the field practicing what they do for every hour they spend actually doing it on the field.

That said, I don't really see a market for mass spectator competition with MMO PvP. It's incredibly hard to follow for anyone not familiar with the game. The only thing that's particularly meaningful to a non-player watching a WoW session are the animations showing the characters making attacks and casting spells and the numbers that flash up to show damage, the actual *interesting* parts of the game are hidden behind a wall of dense lingo. I can explain most real-life sports well enough for a layman to be able to understand what they're watching in just a few minutes. I *live* with a bunch of WoW players and I couldn't tell you what's going on in a PvP matchup beyond the most superficial details. If e-Sports are going to take off in any spectator capacity, it's going to be in a game where the basic mechanics are much more visible and intuitive.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I honestly do n't see why having to grind through 80 levels just to try out a different character build that may or may not actually work should be necessary .
Giving players the ability to try out a few different builds in a private server can only increase the level of competition , it 's not cheating , it 's training .
Real-life athletes spend countless hours off the field practicing what they do for every hour they spend actually doing it on the field .
That said , I do n't really see a market for mass spectator competition with MMO PvP .
It 's incredibly hard to follow for anyone not familiar with the game .
The only thing that 's particularly meaningful to a non-player watching a WoW session are the animations showing the characters making attacks and casting spells and the numbers that flash up to show damage , the actual * interesting * parts of the game are hidden behind a wall of dense lingo .
I can explain most real-life sports well enough for a layman to be able to understand what they 're watching in just a few minutes .
I * live * with a bunch of WoW players and I could n't tell you what 's going on in a PvP matchup beyond the most superficial details .
If e-Sports are going to take off in any spectator capacity , it 's going to be in a game where the basic mechanics are much more visible and intuitive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I honestly don't see why having to grind through 80 levels just to try out a different character build that may or may not actually work should be necessary.
Giving players the ability to try out a few different builds in a private server can only increase the level of competition, it's not cheating, it's training.
Real-life athletes spend countless hours off the field practicing what they do for every hour they spend actually doing it on the field.
That said, I don't really see a market for mass spectator competition with MMO PvP.
It's incredibly hard to follow for anyone not familiar with the game.
The only thing that's particularly meaningful to a non-player watching a WoW session are the animations showing the characters making attacks and casting spells and the numbers that flash up to show damage, the actual *interesting* parts of the game are hidden behind a wall of dense lingo.
I can explain most real-life sports well enough for a layman to be able to understand what they're watching in just a few minutes.
I *live* with a bunch of WoW players and I couldn't tell you what's going on in a PvP matchup beyond the most superficial details.
If e-Sports are going to take off in any spectator capacity, it's going to be in a game where the basic mechanics are much more visible and intuitive.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30363790</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30369296</id>
	<title>Re:WoW</title>
	<author>angel'o'sphere</author>
	<datestamp>1260304980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i><br>This is exactly why Blizzard would try and shut them down, they reflect badly on the game as a whole. I know you could say only stupid people would think this, but stupid people can still post there opinion to the internet<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)<br></i></p><p>The interesting thing here is: most countries in the world have <b>laws</b>. USA is one exception (that it has a few laws mainly concerned about how to properly execute a victim) has laws also, yes, but mainly has court law.</p><p>In other words: in europe there is no law that prevents you from running a private server as long as the servers is <b>private</b> that means restricted to a preselected amount of people. You would need to really dig deep and find some glitch in the law or some blunt fault of the server maintainer  to make/find something you can go to court with.</p><p>I even would think there is no <b>obvious</b> law that prevents anyone from making public servers with own content. Emphasize on <b>obvious</b>. I don't have anything in my mind (I mean there is nothing that I'm aware off)  that would prevent me from running a virtual world to which a WoW client can connect and that provides its own clothing, questing, items. OTOH I don't know how items come from the server to the client, probably thy need to be in the clients data set.  As long as I don't publish anything on my server that is copyrighted elsewhere I have no issues with copyright law. And even if I map drops (in my virtual world ) to existing models on the client, I don't violate any copyright laws, as I don't copy / distribute anything that is falling under that law.</p><p>All this considerations ofc does not take into account that the original manufactor of the game might see this different and case a law suit, which might be to expensive to fight out.</p><p>angel'o'sphere</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is exactly why Blizzard would try and shut them down , they reflect badly on the game as a whole .
I know you could say only stupid people would think this , but stupid people can still post there opinion to the internet : ) The interesting thing here is : most countries in the world have laws .
USA is one exception ( that it has a few laws mainly concerned about how to properly execute a victim ) has laws also , yes , but mainly has court law.In other words : in europe there is no law that prevents you from running a private server as long as the servers is private that means restricted to a preselected amount of people .
You would need to really dig deep and find some glitch in the law or some blunt fault of the server maintainer to make/find something you can go to court with.I even would think there is no obvious law that prevents anyone from making public servers with own content .
Emphasize on obvious .
I do n't have anything in my mind ( I mean there is nothing that I 'm aware off ) that would prevent me from running a virtual world to which a WoW client can connect and that provides its own clothing , questing , items .
OTOH I do n't know how items come from the server to the client , probably thy need to be in the clients data set .
As long as I do n't publish anything on my server that is copyrighted elsewhere I have no issues with copyright law .
And even if I map drops ( in my virtual world ) to existing models on the client , I do n't violate any copyright laws , as I do n't copy / distribute anything that is falling under that law.All this considerations ofc does not take into account that the original manufactor of the game might see this different and case a law suit , which might be to expensive to fight out.angel'o'sphere</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is exactly why Blizzard would try and shut them down, they reflect badly on the game as a whole.
I know you could say only stupid people would think this, but stupid people can still post there opinion to the internet :)The interesting thing here is: most countries in the world have laws.
USA is one exception (that it has a few laws mainly concerned about how to properly execute a victim) has laws also, yes, but mainly has court law.In other words: in europe there is no law that prevents you from running a private server as long as the servers is private that means restricted to a preselected amount of people.
You would need to really dig deep and find some glitch in the law or some blunt fault of the server maintainer  to make/find something you can go to court with.I even would think there is no obvious law that prevents anyone from making public servers with own content.
Emphasize on obvious.
I don't have anything in my mind (I mean there is nothing that I'm aware off)  that would prevent me from running a virtual world to which a WoW client can connect and that provides its own clothing, questing, items.
OTOH I don't know how items come from the server to the client, probably thy need to be in the clients data set.
As long as I don't publish anything on my server that is copyrighted elsewhere I have no issues with copyright law.
And even if I map drops (in my virtual world ) to existing models on the client, I don't violate any copyright laws, as I don't copy / distribute anything that is falling under that law.All this considerations ofc does not take into account that the original manufactor of the game might see this different and case a law suit, which might be to expensive to fight out.angel'o'sphere</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30365520</parent>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_08_0638235_9</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_08_0638235_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30367382
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30366142
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_08_0638235_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_08_0638235.30364538
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