<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_06_2339228</id>
	<title>Iran Slows Internet Access Before Student Protests</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1260100080000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>RiffRafff writes <i>"Iran is at it again, pre-emptively <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091206/ap\_on\_re\_mi\_ea/ml\_iran">slowing or cutting Internet access before anticipated student protests</a>."</i> From the article: <i>"Seeking to deny the protesters a chance to reassert their voice, authorities slowed Internet connections to a crawl in the capital, Tehran. For some periods on Sunday, Web access was completely shut down &mdash; a tactic that was also used before last month's demonstration. The government has not publicly acknowledged it is behind the outages, but Iran's Internet service providers say the problem is not on their end and is not a technical glitch."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>RiffRafff writes " Iran is at it again , pre-emptively slowing or cutting Internet access before anticipated student protests .
" From the article : " Seeking to deny the protesters a chance to reassert their voice , authorities slowed Internet connections to a crawl in the capital , Tehran .
For some periods on Sunday , Web access was completely shut down    a tactic that was also used before last month 's demonstration .
The government has not publicly acknowledged it is behind the outages , but Iran 's Internet service providers say the problem is not on their end and is not a technical glitch .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RiffRafff writes "Iran is at it again, pre-emptively slowing or cutting Internet access before anticipated student protests.
" From the article: "Seeking to deny the protesters a chance to reassert their voice, authorities slowed Internet connections to a crawl in the capital, Tehran.
For some periods on Sunday, Web access was completely shut down — a tactic that was also used before last month's demonstration.
The government has not publicly acknowledged it is behind the outages, but Iran's Internet service providers say the problem is not on their end and is not a technical glitch.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348880</id>
	<title>This is not the work of the Iranian government.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260116940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not the Ayatollah<br>Not the Guardian Council.<br>Not Ahmadinejad</p><p>The Jews leasing the pipe to Iran decided that the surge of traffic last time could have brought them a few more little pennies and in anticipation to this current surge sent extortion letters to Iranian ISPs demanding lots more money. Like Jews do, always with the money. Iranians do not want to know that cockroach Jews control the Internet as well as all banks and businesses so the ISPs just told the Jews to fuckoff and the story was never released by the media. At least you can depend on Iranians not to be Jew puppets unlike fat American pigs.</p><p>NUKE ISRAEL AND LET THERE FINALLY BE A HOLOCAUST FOR REAL!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not the AyatollahNot the Guardian Council.Not AhmadinejadThe Jews leasing the pipe to Iran decided that the surge of traffic last time could have brought them a few more little pennies and in anticipation to this current surge sent extortion letters to Iranian ISPs demanding lots more money .
Like Jews do , always with the money .
Iranians do not want to know that cockroach Jews control the Internet as well as all banks and businesses so the ISPs just told the Jews to fuckoff and the story was never released by the media .
At least you can depend on Iranians not to be Jew puppets unlike fat American pigs.NUKE ISRAEL AND LET THERE FINALLY BE A HOLOCAUST FOR REAL !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not the AyatollahNot the Guardian Council.Not AhmadinejadThe Jews leasing the pipe to Iran decided that the surge of traffic last time could have brought them a few more little pennies and in anticipation to this current surge sent extortion letters to Iranian ISPs demanding lots more money.
Like Jews do, always with the money.
Iranians do not want to know that cockroach Jews control the Internet as well as all banks and businesses so the ISPs just told the Jews to fuckoff and the story was never released by the media.
At least you can depend on Iranians not to be Jew puppets unlike fat American pigs.NUKE ISRAEL AND LET THERE FINALLY BE A HOLOCAUST FOR REAL!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347578</id>
	<title>Re:How long can they make it last?</title>
	<author>hemp</author>
	<datestamp>1260106320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They will continue as long as Nokia, Vodafone, and Siemans continue work with the Iranian government.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They will continue as long as Nokia , Vodafone , and Siemans continue work with the Iranian government .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They will continue as long as Nokia, Vodafone, and Siemans continue work with the Iranian government.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348870</id>
	<title>Re:How long can they make it last?</title>
	<author>alfoolio</author>
	<datestamp>1260116880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I disagree:  The longer they can delay it the less fresh it becomes, the less people care about what actually happened, and the more easily can history be changed.  They look their worst when they initially do it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree : The longer they can delay it the less fresh it becomes , the less people care about what actually happened , and the more easily can history be changed .
They look their worst when they initially do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree:  The longer they can delay it the less fresh it becomes, the less people care about what actually happened, and the more easily can history be changed.
They look their worst when they initially do it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348558</id>
	<title>Is the problem Iran or censorship ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260113880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I remember my university did the same, l'Universite Laval in Quebec when we organized some protests. For instance a monopoly they wanted to grant to, and did, to Sodeco for all the restaurants on the campus.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>But it is quite conservative. Maybe conservatives in Iran don't do better than conservatives in Canada... Could it be ?<br>Oh, let me remember, wasn'it Bush administration that prevented GIs to watch some medias during Golf War II ?</p><p>Finally, may be we got a censorship problem with conservative governments everywhere, from China to USA, via Iran, Tunisia, Marocco, Canada.<br>That waht we should fight against, and not think that censorship is the exclusivity of a government (foreign), a regime (communists !), a people (russians, no, arabs), a culture (african, arabic), and a religion (Islam !).</p><p>These are precious stereotypes to prevent us from defending our liberties (not freedom) and criticizing our own governments and their policies.<br>So yes, we should protest, and not only against Iran, but where ever freedom of speech is threatened.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember my university did the same , l'Universite Laval in Quebec when we organized some protests .
For instance a monopoly they wanted to grant to , and did , to Sodeco for all the restaurants on the campus .
...But it is quite conservative .
Maybe conservatives in Iran do n't do better than conservatives in Canada... Could it be ? Oh , let me remember , wasn'it Bush administration that prevented GIs to watch some medias during Golf War II ? Finally , may be we got a censorship problem with conservative governments everywhere , from China to USA , via Iran , Tunisia , Marocco , Canada.That waht we should fight against , and not think that censorship is the exclusivity of a government ( foreign ) , a regime ( communists !
) , a people ( russians , no , arabs ) , a culture ( african , arabic ) , and a religion ( Islam !
) .These are precious stereotypes to prevent us from defending our liberties ( not freedom ) and criticizing our own governments and their policies.So yes , we should protest , and not only against Iran , but where ever freedom of speech is threatened .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember my university did the same, l'Universite Laval in Quebec when we organized some protests.
For instance a monopoly they wanted to grant to, and did, to Sodeco for all the restaurants on the campus.
...But it is quite conservative.
Maybe conservatives in Iran don't do better than conservatives in Canada... Could it be ?Oh, let me remember, wasn'it Bush administration that prevented GIs to watch some medias during Golf War II ?Finally, may be we got a censorship problem with conservative governments everywhere, from China to USA, via Iran, Tunisia, Marocco, Canada.That waht we should fight against, and not think that censorship is the exclusivity of a government (foreign), a regime (communists !
), a people (russians, no, arabs), a culture (african, arabic), and a religion (Islam !
).These are precious stereotypes to prevent us from defending our liberties (not freedom) and criticizing our own governments and their policies.So yes, we should protest, and not only against Iran, but where ever freedom of speech is threatened.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348348</id>
	<title>Re:Let's do it right this time.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260111900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, but they have McDonald knock-offs; MaxBurger, Boof, etc..</p><p>its basically kabob in bun.. pretty funny actually</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , but they have McDonald knock-offs ; MaxBurger , Boof , etc..its basically kabob in bun.. pretty funny actually</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, but they have McDonald knock-offs; MaxBurger, Boof, etc..its basically kabob in bun.. pretty funny actually</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348282</id>
	<title>Re:Proxification?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260111300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm kind of curious how many more situations like this will occur before people develop point to point 3G networks using old, root'd G1s and directional dishes. With the ability to just turn off the internet at will, eventually someone will develop a tethered G1 that can talk to other tethered G1s in a point to point situation. I think packet HAM radio does this to an extent already, but you should be able to push 10mb/s easy across p2p 3G packet radio, which then interfaces with a building's internal network. A primitive, 1980's DARPA internet via packet radio for the 21st century<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)<br>
&nbsp; <br>With both a laptop and the cell phone being battery powered, such a situation should allow for interrupted power for an hour or more.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm kind of curious how many more situations like this will occur before people develop point to point 3G networks using old , root 'd G1s and directional dishes .
With the ability to just turn off the internet at will , eventually someone will develop a tethered G1 that can talk to other tethered G1s in a point to point situation .
I think packet HAM radio does this to an extent already , but you should be able to push 10mb/s easy across p2p 3G packet radio , which then interfaces with a building 's internal network .
A primitive , 1980 's DARPA internet via packet radio for the 21st century : )   With both a laptop and the cell phone being battery powered , such a situation should allow for interrupted power for an hour or more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm kind of curious how many more situations like this will occur before people develop point to point 3G networks using old, root'd G1s and directional dishes.
With the ability to just turn off the internet at will, eventually someone will develop a tethered G1 that can talk to other tethered G1s in a point to point situation.
I think packet HAM radio does this to an extent already, but you should be able to push 10mb/s easy across p2p 3G packet radio, which then interfaces with a building's internal network.
A primitive, 1980's DARPA internet via packet radio for the 21st century :)
  With both a laptop and the cell phone being battery powered, such a situation should allow for interrupted power for an hour or more.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347564</id>
	<title>First post from Iran</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1260106200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would have been first but I'm posting from Iran.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would have been first but I 'm posting from Iran .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would have been first but I'm posting from Iran.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348072</id>
	<title>"bread and circuses" - encourage p2p use!</title>
	<author>plasmacutter</author>
	<datestamp>1260109620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're doing it wrong.</p><p>they should encourage p2p software use, increase the bandwidth, then everyone will stay home watching lost or house.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're doing it wrong.they should encourage p2p software use , increase the bandwidth , then everyone will stay home watching lost or house .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're doing it wrong.they should encourage p2p software use, increase the bandwidth, then everyone will stay home watching lost or house.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30351072</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260186480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Thank you for this intriguing and informative post. Sadly my first thought is that you are most likely not an American... More and more of the people who live in the 'real' world are starting to see the Americans as the most brain-washed fundamentalists in the world.  It's so ironic that everything America accuses 'the enemy' of doing is something they do best themselves.<br> <br>

What goes for people on a personal level also counts for a country as a whole. Change starts by looking at yourself and trying to better yourself, not by yelling at others that they are wrong and need to change. Especially when you accuse the others of things you do best yourself it makes you look like a puppet and hypocrite. I wish more Americans would put as much effort into changing their own as they are wasting in trying to change the rest of the world... it would be a better world for it.<br> <br>

People who try to think for themselves can fight in this 'war' of disinformation by doing exactly what the parent poster does: counter the disinformation with factual information. To the parent poster, and anyone else who is about 'the truth and nothing else but the truth': Thank you for doing this (at the risk of being labeled with 'teh terrorists' by the aforementioned puppets) and trying to make people think for themselves.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you for this intriguing and informative post .
Sadly my first thought is that you are most likely not an American... More and more of the people who live in the 'real ' world are starting to see the Americans as the most brain-washed fundamentalists in the world .
It 's so ironic that everything America accuses 'the enemy ' of doing is something they do best themselves .
What goes for people on a personal level also counts for a country as a whole .
Change starts by looking at yourself and trying to better yourself , not by yelling at others that they are wrong and need to change .
Especially when you accuse the others of things you do best yourself it makes you look like a puppet and hypocrite .
I wish more Americans would put as much effort into changing their own as they are wasting in trying to change the rest of the world... it would be a better world for it .
People who try to think for themselves can fight in this 'war ' of disinformation by doing exactly what the parent poster does : counter the disinformation with factual information .
To the parent poster , and anyone else who is about 'the truth and nothing else but the truth ' : Thank you for doing this ( at the risk of being labeled with 'teh terrorists ' by the aforementioned puppets ) and trying to make people think for themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you for this intriguing and informative post.
Sadly my first thought is that you are most likely not an American... More and more of the people who live in the 'real' world are starting to see the Americans as the most brain-washed fundamentalists in the world.
It's so ironic that everything America accuses 'the enemy' of doing is something they do best themselves.
What goes for people on a personal level also counts for a country as a whole.
Change starts by looking at yourself and trying to better yourself, not by yelling at others that they are wrong and need to change.
Especially when you accuse the others of things you do best yourself it makes you look like a puppet and hypocrite.
I wish more Americans would put as much effort into changing their own as they are wasting in trying to change the rest of the world... it would be a better world for it.
People who try to think for themselves can fight in this 'war' of disinformation by doing exactly what the parent poster does: counter the disinformation with factual information.
To the parent poster, and anyone else who is about 'the truth and nothing else but the truth': Thank you for doing this (at the risk of being labeled with 'teh terrorists' by the aforementioned puppets) and trying to make people think for themselves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348866</id>
	<title>Re:Let's do it right this time.</title>
	<author>MightyMartian</author>
	<datestamp>1260116820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Looks like we've got one of the Ayatollahs' little willing whores here.  What do you do one weekends, find dissidents to beat up?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Looks like we 've got one of the Ayatollahs ' little willing whores here .
What do you do one weekends , find dissidents to beat up ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looks like we've got one of the Ayatollahs' little willing whores here.
What do you do one weekends, find dissidents to beat up?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30349598</id>
	<title>Is it Iran?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260124620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder if it is Iran slowing the Internet...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...Or maybe the U.S. or Israel or some other country with an agenda of war against them?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if it is Iran slowing the Internet... ...Or maybe the U.S. or Israel or some other country with an agenda of war against them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if it is Iran slowing the Internet... ...Or maybe the U.S. or Israel or some other country with an agenda of war against them?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30351974</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>mangu</author>
	<datestamp>1260196620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>People in Iran do not have gun and it is illegal to have it.</p></div></blockquote><p>Then who shot Neda Soltan? The problem with illegal guns is that only honest people obey the law.</p><blockquote><div><p>US did a coup in Iran 40-50 years ago and overthrow their national democratic government and returned the dictator "Shah" to power</p></div></blockquote><p>It seems pretty naive to blame everything on the CIA. If the Iranian society were so extremely susceptible to foreign manipulation that they cannot get rid of the consequences of a coup that happened almost sixty years ago the situation would be entirely hopeless for Iran. It's time for Iranians to stand up and accept the responsibility for their own acts.</p><p>Besides, Mossadegh didn't have the support of the conservative clergy either, so if the CIA hadn't done it there would still be the possibility that the clerics would overthrow his government. It's easy to play "what if" with past events.</p><p>Looking from the outside, the current situation seems largely unchanged: Iran seems to be governed by a dictatorship that is supported by a small but significant part of the population, this hasn't changed since 1953. The only difference between the Shah and the current regime is that the Shah wasn't intent on destroying Israel.</p><blockquote><div><p>Europeans and US gave them weapons etc (including chemicals for illegal chemical warfare)</p></div></blockquote><p>Not true, at the time of the Iran-Iraq war, Iran had American weapons, Iraq had Soviet weapons.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>People in Iran do not have gun and it is illegal to have it.Then who shot Neda Soltan ?
The problem with illegal guns is that only honest people obey the law.US did a coup in Iran 40-50 years ago and overthrow their national democratic government and returned the dictator " Shah " to powerIt seems pretty naive to blame everything on the CIA .
If the Iranian society were so extremely susceptible to foreign manipulation that they can not get rid of the consequences of a coup that happened almost sixty years ago the situation would be entirely hopeless for Iran .
It 's time for Iranians to stand up and accept the responsibility for their own acts.Besides , Mossadegh did n't have the support of the conservative clergy either , so if the CIA had n't done it there would still be the possibility that the clerics would overthrow his government .
It 's easy to play " what if " with past events.Looking from the outside , the current situation seems largely unchanged : Iran seems to be governed by a dictatorship that is supported by a small but significant part of the population , this has n't changed since 1953 .
The only difference between the Shah and the current regime is that the Shah was n't intent on destroying Israel.Europeans and US gave them weapons etc ( including chemicals for illegal chemical warfare ) Not true , at the time of the Iran-Iraq war , Iran had American weapons , Iraq had Soviet weapons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People in Iran do not have gun and it is illegal to have it.Then who shot Neda Soltan?
The problem with illegal guns is that only honest people obey the law.US did a coup in Iran 40-50 years ago and overthrow their national democratic government and returned the dictator "Shah" to powerIt seems pretty naive to blame everything on the CIA.
If the Iranian society were so extremely susceptible to foreign manipulation that they cannot get rid of the consequences of a coup that happened almost sixty years ago the situation would be entirely hopeless for Iran.
It's time for Iranians to stand up and accept the responsibility for their own acts.Besides, Mossadegh didn't have the support of the conservative clergy either, so if the CIA hadn't done it there would still be the possibility that the clerics would overthrow his government.
It's easy to play "what if" with past events.Looking from the outside, the current situation seems largely unchanged: Iran seems to be governed by a dictatorship that is supported by a small but significant part of the population, this hasn't changed since 1953.
The only difference between the Shah and the current regime is that the Shah wasn't intent on destroying Israel.Europeans and US gave them weapons etc (including chemicals for illegal chemical warfare)Not true, at the time of the Iran-Iraq war, Iran had American weapons, Iraq had Soviet weapons.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347298</id>
	<title>Slow?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260104340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>How much will this really affect communication? If I recall, the last wave of protests mostly used Twitter, which doesn't exactly use a whole heap of bandwith? I could see this affecting Youtube, but it won't stop communication.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How much will this really affect communication ?
If I recall , the last wave of protests mostly used Twitter , which does n't exactly use a whole heap of bandwith ?
I could see this affecting Youtube , but it wo n't stop communication .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much will this really affect communication?
If I recall, the last wave of protests mostly used Twitter, which doesn't exactly use a whole heap of bandwith?
I could see this affecting Youtube, but it won't stop communication.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350850</id>
	<title>Re:Slow?</title>
	<author>Xest</author>
	<datestamp>1260183240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd wager that's not what they think they'll prevent by this.</p><p>What they're hoping to prevent are higher bandwidth activities like video uploads of the dying moments of innocent young girls shot dead by the government sponsored Basij militia.</p><p>This is more an attempt at preventing visual media getting out I would imagine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd wager that 's not what they think they 'll prevent by this.What they 're hoping to prevent are higher bandwidth activities like video uploads of the dying moments of innocent young girls shot dead by the government sponsored Basij militia.This is more an attempt at preventing visual media getting out I would imagine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd wager that's not what they think they'll prevent by this.What they're hoping to prevent are higher bandwidth activities like video uploads of the dying moments of innocent young girls shot dead by the government sponsored Basij militia.This is more an attempt at preventing visual media getting out I would imagine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347298</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348996</id>
	<title>Re:What's their downside?</title>
	<author>Tablizer</author>
	<datestamp>1260118260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The same thing happens when China "cracks down."</p></div></blockquote><p>Why don't we punish them with tariffs? Lopsided trading just creates bubbles and other disruptions anyhow. It's a two-bird tool.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The same thing happens when China " cracks down .
" Why do n't we punish them with tariffs ?
Lopsided trading just creates bubbles and other disruptions anyhow .
It 's a two-bird tool .
   </tokentext>
<sentencetext>The same thing happens when China "cracks down.
"Why don't we punish them with tariffs?
Lopsided trading just creates bubbles and other disruptions anyhow.
It's a two-bird tool.
   
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347672</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347288</id>
	<title>Have they gotten to /.?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260104220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Clearly if I'm getting a frist psot on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. then they've gotten to us to!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Clearly if I 'm getting a frist psot on / .
then they 've gotten to us to !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Clearly if I'm getting a frist psot on /.
then they've gotten to us to!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30356240</id>
	<title>Re:Proxification?</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1260215940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>I considered, but I'm nervous about having some<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/b/onehead abuse my address.</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>run a relay then, not an exit node.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I considered , but I 'm nervous about having some /b/onehead abuse my address .
run a relay then , not an exit node .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I considered, but I'm nervous about having some /b/onehead abuse my address.
run a relay then, not an exit node.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347614</id>
	<title>Re:"Not on their end and not a technical glitch"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260106560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Well, that really doesn't leave much. I give the Iranian government credit though, this is a much more subtle way of handling things and potentially more effective than more blatant crackdowns. However, I don't think this will matter much for certain types of channels. A lot of the channels used in previous protests to communicate (such as Twitter and text messages) have extremely low bandwiths. So slowing down the internet shouldn't do much. And large scale cutting will lose the more subtle element. Of course, this sort of repeated behavior should make it clear to anyone in doubt that the current Iranian government really isn't popular with the people. If they were genuinely popular, they'd have little need to try to control communication like this. The government probably remembers that the last time there was an extremely unpopular government was the Shah's regime and that was brought down by what started as student protests.</p></div><p>Been there, done that with the so-called 'revolutions'.</p><p>The last time they got themselves a real progressive force (Mr Mohammed Mossadeq), the CIA killed him and installed their guy, the Shah. It's what come to be known as the 'Roosevelt doct</p><p>Then we got another revolt after that (the Islamic Revolution), with Zibgniew Brzezinski selling guns to the Iranians under Khomeini's watch (AKA what people think Iran-Contra was all about) and playing them against Iraq.</p><p>I'm getting sick of the naive childlike view portrayed on this forum and others. In your 'analysis', you exclude the fact that the US government and its alphabet soup HAS, and never ceased to meddle in foreign governments' affairs. This is part of the historical record, yet it always conveniently gets 'omitted'.</p><p>Just more war propaganda, just more apologists from an 'empire' that ironically is very much in its death throes itself. But what I'm really sick of is this American naval-gazing - this apathetic, moral righteousness where none is due.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , that really does n't leave much .
I give the Iranian government credit though , this is a much more subtle way of handling things and potentially more effective than more blatant crackdowns .
However , I do n't think this will matter much for certain types of channels .
A lot of the channels used in previous protests to communicate ( such as Twitter and text messages ) have extremely low bandwiths .
So slowing down the internet should n't do much .
And large scale cutting will lose the more subtle element .
Of course , this sort of repeated behavior should make it clear to anyone in doubt that the current Iranian government really is n't popular with the people .
If they were genuinely popular , they 'd have little need to try to control communication like this .
The government probably remembers that the last time there was an extremely unpopular government was the Shah 's regime and that was brought down by what started as student protests.Been there , done that with the so-called 'revolutions'.The last time they got themselves a real progressive force ( Mr Mohammed Mossadeq ) , the CIA killed him and installed their guy , the Shah .
It 's what come to be known as the 'Roosevelt doctThen we got another revolt after that ( the Islamic Revolution ) , with Zibgniew Brzezinski selling guns to the Iranians under Khomeini 's watch ( AKA what people think Iran-Contra was all about ) and playing them against Iraq.I 'm getting sick of the naive childlike view portrayed on this forum and others .
In your 'analysis ' , you exclude the fact that the US government and its alphabet soup HAS , and never ceased to meddle in foreign governments ' affairs .
This is part of the historical record , yet it always conveniently gets 'omitted'.Just more war propaganda , just more apologists from an 'empire ' that ironically is very much in its death throes itself .
But what I 'm really sick of is this American naval-gazing - this apathetic , moral righteousness where none is due .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, that really doesn't leave much.
I give the Iranian government credit though, this is a much more subtle way of handling things and potentially more effective than more blatant crackdowns.
However, I don't think this will matter much for certain types of channels.
A lot of the channels used in previous protests to communicate (such as Twitter and text messages) have extremely low bandwiths.
So slowing down the internet shouldn't do much.
And large scale cutting will lose the more subtle element.
Of course, this sort of repeated behavior should make it clear to anyone in doubt that the current Iranian government really isn't popular with the people.
If they were genuinely popular, they'd have little need to try to control communication like this.
The government probably remembers that the last time there was an extremely unpopular government was the Shah's regime and that was brought down by what started as student protests.Been there, done that with the so-called 'revolutions'.The last time they got themselves a real progressive force (Mr Mohammed Mossadeq), the CIA killed him and installed their guy, the Shah.
It's what come to be known as the 'Roosevelt doctThen we got another revolt after that (the Islamic Revolution), with Zibgniew Brzezinski selling guns to the Iranians under Khomeini's watch (AKA what people think Iran-Contra was all about) and playing them against Iraq.I'm getting sick of the naive childlike view portrayed on this forum and others.
In your 'analysis', you exclude the fact that the US government and its alphabet soup HAS, and never ceased to meddle in foreign governments' affairs.
This is part of the historical record, yet it always conveniently gets 'omitted'.Just more war propaganda, just more apologists from an 'empire' that ironically is very much in its death throes itself.
But what I'm really sick of is this American naval-gazing - this apathetic, moral righteousness where none is due.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347330</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347342</id>
	<title>Hub and spoke control</title>
	<author>DigiShaman</author>
	<datestamp>1260104640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How long before the Iranian government lays all new fiber to a central military facility and then disable the now-current fiber links? The idea being total central control to turn off the internet connection entirely or by segments from one physical location.</p><p>Hey, if they have the money to build another 20 nuclear reprocessing sites, they damn well have the funds to pull something off like this!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How long before the Iranian government lays all new fiber to a central military facility and then disable the now-current fiber links ?
The idea being total central control to turn off the internet connection entirely or by segments from one physical location.Hey , if they have the money to build another 20 nuclear reprocessing sites , they damn well have the funds to pull something off like this !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How long before the Iranian government lays all new fiber to a central military facility and then disable the now-current fiber links?
The idea being total central control to turn off the internet connection entirely or by segments from one physical location.Hey, if they have the money to build another 20 nuclear reprocessing sites, they damn well have the funds to pull something off like this!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348468</id>
	<title>throttling like canuck isps?</title>
	<author>CHRONOSS2008</author>
	<datestamp>1260112860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>so why they get news</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so why they get news</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so why they get news</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347604</id>
	<title>Re:Proxification?</title>
	<author>techno-vampire</author>
	<datestamp>1260106500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>And how do you think this is going to help in the slightest?  If <b>all</b> Internet traffic in and out of Iran is being slowed down, running through a proxy outside of Iran won't help because traffic to and from it will be affected just as much as everything else.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And how do you think this is going to help in the slightest ?
If all Internet traffic in and out of Iran is being slowed down , running through a proxy outside of Iran wo n't help because traffic to and from it will be affected just as much as everything else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And how do you think this is going to help in the slightest?
If all Internet traffic in and out of Iran is being slowed down, running through a proxy outside of Iran won't help because traffic to and from it will be affected just as much as everything else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347292</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348636</id>
	<title>there's a guy named sun yat-sen</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1260114660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>he was an exile, an expatriot. he gathered financial support and philosophical encouragement from ideas outside china. he spent a lot of time in hawaii, finding inspiration in things like lincoln's gettysburg address. then he went home to china, and helped overthrow the backwards qing dynasty. he is revered by both the mainland communists and the nationalists on taiwan as the father of modern china</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun\_Yat-sen" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun\_Yat-sen</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>my point?</p><p>national borders are artificial constructs, and the seeds of revolution often come from outside a country, not from within it. ideology is ideology ideology: if it works in one country, it can work in another. its not like you go over the border of china or iran and suddenly you are in a magical land where human nature is fundamentally different. no: human beings are human beings. an idea that inspires someone in rio de janiero can just as easily inspire someone in hamburg. you give far too much power to something as flimsy as a tribal, arbitrary dividing line</p><p>my point is: there is very much we can do to help an angry and energized rich iranian expat community to give birth to the iranian sun yat-sen</p><p>its not just people outside the country whining and complaining. that's not all they are doing, you can be sure of that. and the iranian government knows this: they jail relatives of iranian expats they perceive as being active in fighting the illegitimate iranian military dictatorship (the ayatollah is only a pawn now):</p><p><a href="http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/12/05/2044243" title="slashdot.org">http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/12/05/2044243</a> [slashdot.org]</p><p>the iranian government certainly recognizes what you do not: its not the cia, or mi-6 that is there most potent foreign enemy. it is the iranian diaspora: raising funds, keeping alive hope, influencing opinion at home</p><p>the iranian regime has heard of sun yat-sen, and they are on guard against the iranian one</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>he was an exile , an expatriot .
he gathered financial support and philosophical encouragement from ideas outside china .
he spent a lot of time in hawaii , finding inspiration in things like lincoln 's gettysburg address .
then he went home to china , and helped overthrow the backwards qing dynasty .
he is revered by both the mainland communists and the nationalists on taiwan as the father of modern chinahttp : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun \ _Yat-sen [ wikipedia.org ] my point ? national borders are artificial constructs , and the seeds of revolution often come from outside a country , not from within it .
ideology is ideology ideology : if it works in one country , it can work in another .
its not like you go over the border of china or iran and suddenly you are in a magical land where human nature is fundamentally different .
no : human beings are human beings .
an idea that inspires someone in rio de janiero can just as easily inspire someone in hamburg .
you give far too much power to something as flimsy as a tribal , arbitrary dividing linemy point is : there is very much we can do to help an angry and energized rich iranian expat community to give birth to the iranian sun yat-senits not just people outside the country whining and complaining .
that 's not all they are doing , you can be sure of that .
and the iranian government knows this : they jail relatives of iranian expats they perceive as being active in fighting the illegitimate iranian military dictatorship ( the ayatollah is only a pawn now ) : http : //politics.slashdot.org/article.pl ? sid = 09/12/05/2044243 [ slashdot.org ] the iranian government certainly recognizes what you do not : its not the cia , or mi-6 that is there most potent foreign enemy .
it is the iranian diaspora : raising funds , keeping alive hope , influencing opinion at homethe iranian regime has heard of sun yat-sen , and they are on guard against the iranian one</tokentext>
<sentencetext>he was an exile, an expatriot.
he gathered financial support and philosophical encouragement from ideas outside china.
he spent a lot of time in hawaii, finding inspiration in things like lincoln's gettysburg address.
then he went home to china, and helped overthrow the backwards qing dynasty.
he is revered by both the mainland communists and the nationalists on taiwan as the father of modern chinahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun\_Yat-sen [wikipedia.org]my point?national borders are artificial constructs, and the seeds of revolution often come from outside a country, not from within it.
ideology is ideology ideology: if it works in one country, it can work in another.
its not like you go over the border of china or iran and suddenly you are in a magical land where human nature is fundamentally different.
no: human beings are human beings.
an idea that inspires someone in rio de janiero can just as easily inspire someone in hamburg.
you give far too much power to something as flimsy as a tribal, arbitrary dividing linemy point is: there is very much we can do to help an angry and energized rich iranian expat community to give birth to the iranian sun yat-senits not just people outside the country whining and complaining.
that's not all they are doing, you can be sure of that.
and the iranian government knows this: they jail relatives of iranian expats they perceive as being active in fighting the illegitimate iranian military dictatorship (the ayatollah is only a pawn now):http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/12/05/2044243 [slashdot.org]the iranian government certainly recognizes what you do not: its not the cia, or mi-6 that is there most potent foreign enemy.
it is the iranian diaspora: raising funds, keeping alive hope, influencing opinion at homethe iranian regime has heard of sun yat-sen, and they are on guard against the iranian one</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347672</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30351288</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>gtall</author>
	<datestamp>1260189720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Iranians are responsible for their current regime, trying to blame that on the U.S. is great rhetoric but wrong. Islam has always groped for power. The tyrants who now run Iran have finally gotten their chance to show Islam's true colors. Read about what they did to the Ba'Hai after the revolution.</p><p>Current Iran does start wars, the last Israeli-Lebanon war started because their dogs in Lebanon decided to listen to their Iranian masters.</p><p>Bringing up the the fact the U.S. used nukes is entirely out of context. The result of not using them would have been many more thousands of American and Japanese deaths. The U.S. has never used them since nor has threatened to use them. On the other hand, the current Iranian regime has threatened that if they get them, they will nuke Israel.</p><p>Whitewashing the Iranian regime is nice academic play, but that is all it is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Iranians are responsible for their current regime , trying to blame that on the U.S. is great rhetoric but wrong .
Islam has always groped for power .
The tyrants who now run Iran have finally gotten their chance to show Islam 's true colors .
Read about what they did to the Ba'Hai after the revolution.Current Iran does start wars , the last Israeli-Lebanon war started because their dogs in Lebanon decided to listen to their Iranian masters.Bringing up the the fact the U.S. used nukes is entirely out of context .
The result of not using them would have been many more thousands of American and Japanese deaths .
The U.S. has never used them since nor has threatened to use them .
On the other hand , the current Iranian regime has threatened that if they get them , they will nuke Israel.Whitewashing the Iranian regime is nice academic play , but that is all it is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Iranians are responsible for their current regime, trying to blame that on the U.S. is great rhetoric but wrong.
Islam has always groped for power.
The tyrants who now run Iran have finally gotten their chance to show Islam's true colors.
Read about what they did to the Ba'Hai after the revolution.Current Iran does start wars, the last Israeli-Lebanon war started because their dogs in Lebanon decided to listen to their Iranian masters.Bringing up the the fact the U.S. used nukes is entirely out of context.
The result of not using them would have been many more thousands of American and Japanese deaths.
The U.S. has never used them since nor has threatened to use them.
On the other hand, the current Iranian regime has threatened that if they get them, they will nuke Israel.Whitewashing the Iranian regime is nice academic play, but that is all it is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30355856</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260214080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh I just LOVE made up stats on the Internet. I couldn't possibly spare enough time to explain the level of stupidity of your pro-Iranian rant.</p><p>I bet you give the current America credit for the American Indian culture that was here before us.</p><p>Please do everyone a favor and quit posting on the Internet. It gets a little stupider every time you leave comments like this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh I just LOVE made up stats on the Internet .
I could n't possibly spare enough time to explain the level of stupidity of your pro-Iranian rant.I bet you give the current America credit for the American Indian culture that was here before us.Please do everyone a favor and quit posting on the Internet .
It gets a little stupider every time you leave comments like this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh I just LOVE made up stats on the Internet.
I couldn't possibly spare enough time to explain the level of stupidity of your pro-Iranian rant.I bet you give the current America credit for the American Indian culture that was here before us.Please do everyone a favor and quit posting on the Internet.
It gets a little stupider every time you leave comments like this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348312</id>
	<title>Re:Have they gotten to /.?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260111600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Government propaganda? I get my new from google, and slashdot... which one of those is tied to the US government?</p><p>There are lots of people who here don't think we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan... maybe you need to stop listening to your own propaganda that says the US is a bunch of warmongers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Government propaganda ?
I get my new from google , and slashdot... which one of those is tied to the US government ? There are lots of people who here do n't think we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan... maybe you need to stop listening to your own propaganda that says the US is a bunch of warmongers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Government propaganda?
I get my new from google, and slashdot... which one of those is tied to the US government?There are lots of people who here don't think we should be in Iraq or Afghanistan... maybe you need to stop listening to your own propaganda that says the US is a bunch of warmongers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30362902</id>
	<title>Re:Don't like history? Revise it until you do!</title>
	<author>h4rm0ny</author>
	<datestamp>1260265440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Wrong. The US hasn't started ANY wars in living memory.</p></div></blockquote><p>
So Iraq shot first?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wrong .
The US has n't started ANY wars in living memory .
So Iraq shot first ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wrong.
The US hasn't started ANY wars in living memory.
So Iraq shot first?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30353266</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30349048</id>
	<title>Re:Everybody needs a little revolution now &amp; a</title>
	<author>Kagura</author>
	<datestamp>1260118860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Bah,</p><p>Last death throws of a failing regime. I feel horrible for the Iranian people right now, but thank god they don't seem to be taking this lying down.</p><p>It's like the 1960's over there, a huge boom of 'youth' and a repressive establishment to fight. Here's hoping the result of this revolution is a bit more friendly then the last, but more importantly that it treats it's people better.</p></div><p>Bleh. South Korea tried protests in the 1980 for democratization, and the military ended up killing several hundred demonstrators while troops were brutally restablishing control over Kwangju. South Korea has only had democracy since the 1987--and that's only if you believe Noh Tae-Woo, the previous dictator's buddy, was elected in a fair election. Otherwise, ROK has only had democracy since the mid-90s... and that covers the entire period from the end of World War II to present.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Bah,Last death throws of a failing regime .
I feel horrible for the Iranian people right now , but thank god they do n't seem to be taking this lying down.It 's like the 1960 's over there , a huge boom of 'youth ' and a repressive establishment to fight .
Here 's hoping the result of this revolution is a bit more friendly then the last , but more importantly that it treats it 's people better.Bleh .
South Korea tried protests in the 1980 for democratization , and the military ended up killing several hundred demonstrators while troops were brutally restablishing control over Kwangju .
South Korea has only had democracy since the 1987--and that 's only if you believe Noh Tae-Woo , the previous dictator 's buddy , was elected in a fair election .
Otherwise , ROK has only had democracy since the mid-90s... and that covers the entire period from the end of World War II to present .
: (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bah,Last death throws of a failing regime.
I feel horrible for the Iranian people right now, but thank god they don't seem to be taking this lying down.It's like the 1960's over there, a huge boom of 'youth' and a repressive establishment to fight.
Here's hoping the result of this revolution is a bit more friendly then the last, but more importantly that it treats it's people better.Bleh.
South Korea tried protests in the 1980 for democratization, and the military ended up killing several hundred demonstrators while troops were brutally restablishing control over Kwangju.
South Korea has only had democracy since the 1987--and that's only if you believe Noh Tae-Woo, the previous dictator's buddy, was elected in a fair election.
Otherwise, ROK has only had democracy since the mid-90s... and that covers the entire period from the end of World War II to present.
:(
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347444</id>
	<title>Bandwidth-wasting social sites</title>
	<author>ickleberry</author>
	<datestamp>1260105420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If they were all using IRC/Jabber and regular POP3/SMTP email (with encryption/one-time pads) or something more decentralised and robust altogether the effects of 'slowing down the internet' would hardly be felt, since these protocols use so little bandwidth anyway. In this case anyway relying on 'De Cloud' ie. a couple of supermassive foreign social networking sites does not seem like the best course of action</htmltext>
<tokenext>If they were all using IRC/Jabber and regular POP3/SMTP email ( with encryption/one-time pads ) or something more decentralised and robust altogether the effects of 'slowing down the internet ' would hardly be felt , since these protocols use so little bandwidth anyway .
In this case anyway relying on 'De Cloud ' ie .
a couple of supermassive foreign social networking sites does not seem like the best course of action</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they were all using IRC/Jabber and regular POP3/SMTP email (with encryption/one-time pads) or something more decentralised and robust altogether the effects of 'slowing down the internet' would hardly be felt, since these protocols use so little bandwidth anyway.
In this case anyway relying on 'De Cloud' ie.
a couple of supermassive foreign social networking sites does not seem like the best course of action</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348448</id>
	<title>time to train some runner, perhaps?</title>
	<author>SYSS Mouse</author>
	<datestamp>1260112680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Especially those who are expert in Parkour? So that the net is not needed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Especially those who are expert in Parkour ?
So that the net is not needed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Especially those who are expert in Parkour?
So that the net is not needed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30356030</id>
	<title>"Free trade" undermines freedoms</title>
	<author>rsborg</author>
	<datestamp>1260214980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I feel for those affected, but at some point the people inside the Matrix need to do more to help themselves. Having the people outside complain really doesn't do a whole lot to make it better.</p></div></blockquote><p>Bullshit... these people are subjugated mainly because foreign governments view their slave labor as more valuable than their freedoms.  The treaty establishing a communist, completely un-free state (China) as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most\_favoured\_nation" title="wikipedia.org">"Most Favored Nation"</a> [wikipedia.org] by the "bastion of freedom" (USA) was the wrong move.  Instead we should have included fair trade protections in our treaties to encourage these nations to stop their slave labor practices, because it undermines the standard of living across the globe when we simply say "free trade" (ie, race to the bottom for wages and standard of living).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I feel for those affected , but at some point the people inside the Matrix need to do more to help themselves .
Having the people outside complain really does n't do a whole lot to make it better.Bullshit... these people are subjugated mainly because foreign governments view their slave labor as more valuable than their freedoms .
The treaty establishing a communist , completely un-free state ( China ) as " Most Favored Nation " [ wikipedia.org ] by the " bastion of freedom " ( USA ) was the wrong move .
Instead we should have included fair trade protections in our treaties to encourage these nations to stop their slave labor practices , because it undermines the standard of living across the globe when we simply say " free trade " ( ie , race to the bottom for wages and standard of living ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I feel for those affected, but at some point the people inside the Matrix need to do more to help themselves.
Having the people outside complain really doesn't do a whole lot to make it better.Bullshit... these people are subjugated mainly because foreign governments view their slave labor as more valuable than their freedoms.
The treaty establishing a communist, completely un-free state (China) as "Most Favored Nation" [wikipedia.org] by the "bastion of freedom" (USA) was the wrong move.
Instead we should have included fair trade protections in our treaties to encourage these nations to stop their slave labor practices, because it undermines the standard of living across the globe when we simply say "free trade" (ie, race to the bottom for wages and standard of living).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347672</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347398</id>
	<title>Everybody needs a little revolution now &amp; agai</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260105120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bah,</p><p>Last death throws of a failing regime. I feel horrible for the Iranian people right now, but thank god they don't seem to be taking this lying down.</p><p>It's like the 1960's over there, a huge boom of 'youth' and a repressive establishment to fight. Here's hoping the result of this revolution is a bit more friendly then the last, but more importantly that it treats it's people better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bah,Last death throws of a failing regime .
I feel horrible for the Iranian people right now , but thank god they do n't seem to be taking this lying down.It 's like the 1960 's over there , a huge boom of 'youth ' and a repressive establishment to fight .
Here 's hoping the result of this revolution is a bit more friendly then the last , but more importantly that it treats it 's people better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bah,Last death throws of a failing regime.
I feel horrible for the Iranian people right now, but thank god they don't seem to be taking this lying down.It's like the 1960's over there, a huge boom of 'youth' and a repressive establishment to fight.
Here's hoping the result of this revolution is a bit more friendly then the last, but more importantly that it treats it's people better.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30349230</id>
	<title>Re:Have they gotten to /.?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260120660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a feeling that people like the parent post are criticizing the splinter in their own eye rather than the log in their neighbor's.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a feeling that people like the parent post are criticizing the splinter in their own eye rather than the log in their neighbor 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a feeling that people like the parent post are criticizing the splinter in their own eye rather than the log in their neighbor's.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350264</id>
	<title>No internet means: GET OUT NOW!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260219480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe it's not a smart move after all to cut internet. Free WoW would have done a better job.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe it 's not a smart move after all to cut internet .
Free WoW would have done a better job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe it's not a smart move after all to cut internet.
Free WoW would have done a better job.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347832</id>
	<title>In Australia</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260107880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Australia you need permission from the Government to stage a protest. How is this any different?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Australia you need permission from the Government to stage a protest .
How is this any different ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Australia you need permission from the Government to stage a protest.
How is this any different?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350268</id>
	<title>Re:This is not the work of the Iranian government.</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1260219480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dude, I fucking wish the Grand Jewish Conspiracy had the resources and people for that.  Instead, I had to endure Rachel hawking her horrible chocolate balls (they really taste like balls) at the market just so we could raise the money to murder <i>one</i> Muslim baby in Iraq in its mother's womb and bribe a few stupid American soldiers to ignore what we did.  That's the last damn bake sale I ever help with!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dude , I fucking wish the Grand Jewish Conspiracy had the resources and people for that .
Instead , I had to endure Rachel hawking her horrible chocolate balls ( they really taste like balls ) at the market just so we could raise the money to murder one Muslim baby in Iraq in its mother 's womb and bribe a few stupid American soldiers to ignore what we did .
That 's the last damn bake sale I ever help with !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dude, I fucking wish the Grand Jewish Conspiracy had the resources and people for that.
Instead, I had to endure Rachel hawking her horrible chocolate balls (they really taste like balls) at the market just so we could raise the money to murder one Muslim baby in Iraq in its mother's womb and bribe a few stupid American soldiers to ignore what we did.
That's the last damn bake sale I ever help with!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348880</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347640</id>
	<title>Re:How long can they make it last?</title>
	<author>Osinoche</author>
	<datestamp>1260106740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext> I doubt that mate. Most Iranians are fine with the status quo.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I doubt that mate .
Most Iranians are fine with the status quo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I doubt that mate.
Most Iranians are fine with the status quo.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347318</id>
	<title>Let's do it right this time.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260104460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I hope the protest succeeds for many reasons, one of which is to show that regime change can be beneficial and effective without overt American influence. The Iranians are tough people with long memories, and they will be as resistant to American meddling as they are to the Ayatollah.<br> <br>

They're one of the few countries without McDonald's' and I'd like to see them stay that way.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hope the protest succeeds for many reasons , one of which is to show that regime change can be beneficial and effective without overt American influence .
The Iranians are tough people with long memories , and they will be as resistant to American meddling as they are to the Ayatollah .
They 're one of the few countries without McDonald 's ' and I 'd like to see them stay that way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hope the protest succeeds for many reasons, one of which is to show that regime change can be beneficial and effective without overt American influence.
The Iranians are tough people with long memories, and they will be as resistant to American meddling as they are to the Ayatollah.
They're one of the few countries without McDonald's' and I'd like to see them stay that way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30351156</id>
	<title>Re:"bread and circuses" - encourage p2p use!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260188100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they did that the people that watch would be even more westernized and would sooner or later demand change</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they did that the people that watch would be even more westernized and would sooner or later demand change</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they did that the people that watch would be even more westernized and would sooner or later demand change</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348072</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30353690</id>
	<title>They just protecting children...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260204660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Err.. young people from internet predators.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Err.. young people from internet predators .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Err.. young people from internet predators.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347330</id>
	<title>"Not on their end and not a technical glitch"</title>
	<author>JoshuaZ</author>
	<datestamp>1260104520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, that really doesn't leave much. I give the Iranian government credit though, this is a much more subtle way of handling things and potentially more effective than more blatant crackdowns. However, I don't think this will matter much for certain types of channels. A lot of the channels used in previous protests to communicate (such as Twitter and text messages) have extremely low bandwiths. So slowing down the internet shouldn't do much. And large scale cutting will lose the more subtle element. Of course, this sort of repeated behavior should make it clear to anyone in doubt that the current Iranian government really isn't popular with the people. If they were genuinely popular, they'd have little need to try to control communication like this. The government probably remembers that the last time there was an extremely unpopular government was the Shah's regime and that was brought down by what started as student protests.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , that really does n't leave much .
I give the Iranian government credit though , this is a much more subtle way of handling things and potentially more effective than more blatant crackdowns .
However , I do n't think this will matter much for certain types of channels .
A lot of the channels used in previous protests to communicate ( such as Twitter and text messages ) have extremely low bandwiths .
So slowing down the internet should n't do much .
And large scale cutting will lose the more subtle element .
Of course , this sort of repeated behavior should make it clear to anyone in doubt that the current Iranian government really is n't popular with the people .
If they were genuinely popular , they 'd have little need to try to control communication like this .
The government probably remembers that the last time there was an extremely unpopular government was the Shah 's regime and that was brought down by what started as student protests .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, that really doesn't leave much.
I give the Iranian government credit though, this is a much more subtle way of handling things and potentially more effective than more blatant crackdowns.
However, I don't think this will matter much for certain types of channels.
A lot of the channels used in previous protests to communicate (such as Twitter and text messages) have extremely low bandwiths.
So slowing down the internet shouldn't do much.
And large scale cutting will lose the more subtle element.
Of course, this sort of repeated behavior should make it clear to anyone in doubt that the current Iranian government really isn't popular with the people.
If they were genuinely popular, they'd have little need to try to control communication like this.
The government probably remembers that the last time there was an extremely unpopular government was the Shah's regime and that was brought down by what started as student protests.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30349806</id>
	<title>Re:Everybody needs a little revolution now &amp; a</title>
	<author>CodeBuster</author>
	<datestamp>1260127020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IMHO, it would be a mistake to equate what is happening right now in Iran right now with the 1960s of the west; the culture of the middle east in general and Iran in particular is very different. As others have said, the ayatollahs are quite popular with the poorly educated and rural majority of the Iranian population who are religious, suspicious of the west, and to whom information is very carefully metered and controlled by the state. Combine this with the repressive and violent nature of the Iranian regime and perhaps you will begin to see that nothing much is likely to change in Iran any time soon. In fact, it is my own belief that things will become much worse. An armed showdown between Iran and the west is practically inevitable now. The real turning point will come when Iran effectively withdraws from nuclear non-proliferation (I say effectively because once it becomes patently obvious to everyone that inspections are useless, it will be the same as if they formally withdrew from the treaty). Once that happens, it will only be a matter of time before Israel, and perhaps the United States, are forced to strike before Iran completes "the bomb".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IMHO , it would be a mistake to equate what is happening right now in Iran right now with the 1960s of the west ; the culture of the middle east in general and Iran in particular is very different .
As others have said , the ayatollahs are quite popular with the poorly educated and rural majority of the Iranian population who are religious , suspicious of the west , and to whom information is very carefully metered and controlled by the state .
Combine this with the repressive and violent nature of the Iranian regime and perhaps you will begin to see that nothing much is likely to change in Iran any time soon .
In fact , it is my own belief that things will become much worse .
An armed showdown between Iran and the west is practically inevitable now .
The real turning point will come when Iran effectively withdraws from nuclear non-proliferation ( I say effectively because once it becomes patently obvious to everyone that inspections are useless , it will be the same as if they formally withdrew from the treaty ) .
Once that happens , it will only be a matter of time before Israel , and perhaps the United States , are forced to strike before Iran completes " the bomb " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IMHO, it would be a mistake to equate what is happening right now in Iran right now with the 1960s of the west; the culture of the middle east in general and Iran in particular is very different.
As others have said, the ayatollahs are quite popular with the poorly educated and rural majority of the Iranian population who are religious, suspicious of the west, and to whom information is very carefully metered and controlled by the state.
Combine this with the repressive and violent nature of the Iranian regime and perhaps you will begin to see that nothing much is likely to change in Iran any time soon.
In fact, it is my own belief that things will become much worse.
An armed showdown between Iran and the west is practically inevitable now.
The real turning point will come when Iran effectively withdraws from nuclear non-proliferation (I say effectively because once it becomes patently obvious to everyone that inspections are useless, it will be the same as if they formally withdrew from the treaty).
Once that happens, it will only be a matter of time before Israel, and perhaps the United States, are forced to strike before Iran completes "the bomb".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348092</id>
	<title>Re:"Not on their end and not a technical glitch"</title>
	<author>easyTree</author>
	<datestamp>1260109860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nice to see someone who's awake, AC.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nice to see someone who 's awake , AC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nice to see someone who's awake, AC.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347570</id>
	<title>Maybe it isn't the government...</title>
	<author>GhostGuy</author>
	<datestamp>1260106260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Maybe everyone was just blogging and tweeting about how awesome the protests were going to be, and it clogged up the tubes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe everyone was just blogging and tweeting about how awesome the protests were going to be , and it clogged up the tubes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe everyone was just blogging and tweeting about how awesome the protests were going to be, and it clogged up the tubes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350812</id>
	<title>The West Aiding in Censorship</title>
	<author>mcnazar</author>
	<datestamp>1260182820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am just wondering if these oppressive regimes wouldn't have such a hard time subjugating their populace if the West wasn't supplying them with the means to exert their power.</p><p>Is the Iranian government technically able to censor/throttle the Interwebs? No. Most likely some US or European publicly owned company is supplying the technical capability to do this.</p><p>Does anybody know who this is as I for one would like to know and boycott their products.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am just wondering if these oppressive regimes would n't have such a hard time subjugating their populace if the West was n't supplying them with the means to exert their power.Is the Iranian government technically able to censor/throttle the Interwebs ?
No. Most likely some US or European publicly owned company is supplying the technical capability to do this.Does anybody know who this is as I for one would like to know and boycott their products .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am just wondering if these oppressive regimes wouldn't have such a hard time subjugating their populace if the West wasn't supplying them with the means to exert their power.Is the Iranian government technically able to censor/throttle the Interwebs?
No. Most likely some US or European publicly owned company is supplying the technical capability to do this.Does anybody know who this is as I for one would like to know and boycott their products.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348826</id>
	<title>Sounds Familiar</title>
	<author>WindBourne</author>
	<datestamp>1260116220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>lets see.
<ol>
<li> <b>S</b>pies on their citizens.</li>
<li> <b>H</b>as emprisoned and beaten their own citizens</li>
<li> <b>A</b>lways tries to control what is said.</li>
<li> <b>H</b>orrible murder in the name of some higher reasoning.</li>
</ol><p>
Oh, I have such a difficult time telling the difference between those two.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>lets see .
Spies on their citizens .
Has emprisoned and beaten their own citizens Always tries to control what is said .
Horrible murder in the name of some higher reasoning .
Oh , I have such a difficult time telling the difference between those two .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>lets see.
Spies on their citizens.
Has emprisoned and beaten their own citizens
 Always tries to control what is said.
Horrible murder in the name of some higher reasoning.
Oh, I have such a difficult time telling the difference between those two.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348740</id>
	<title>Re:Have they gotten to /.?</title>
	<author>MightyMartian</author>
	<datestamp>1260115560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How about -1 Moral Leper and Apologist.  Seems to fit your post.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How about -1 Moral Leper and Apologist .
Seems to fit your post .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about -1 Moral Leper and Apologist.
Seems to fit your post.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347672</id>
	<title>What's their downside?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260106980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The same thing happens when China "cracks down."  The media whines and opines for a while, but at the end of the day the rest of the world is powerless to stop these boneheads from abusing their own people.  I feel for those affected, but at some point the people inside the Matrix need to do more to help themselves.  Having the people outside complain really doesn't do a whole lot to make it better.</p><p>So if I'm a thug government, I know I can pretty much do what I want, especially if I have something the world wants (cheap labor/oil/etc).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The same thing happens when China " cracks down .
" The media whines and opines for a while , but at the end of the day the rest of the world is powerless to stop these boneheads from abusing their own people .
I feel for those affected , but at some point the people inside the Matrix need to do more to help themselves .
Having the people outside complain really does n't do a whole lot to make it better.So if I 'm a thug government , I know I can pretty much do what I want , especially if I have something the world wants ( cheap labor/oil/etc ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The same thing happens when China "cracks down.
"  The media whines and opines for a while, but at the end of the day the rest of the world is powerless to stop these boneheads from abusing their own people.
I feel for those affected, but at some point the people inside the Matrix need to do more to help themselves.
Having the people outside complain really doesn't do a whole lot to make it better.So if I'm a thug government, I know I can pretty much do what I want, especially if I have something the world wants (cheap labor/oil/etc).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348876</id>
	<title>Re:Have they gotten to /.?</title>
	<author>MillionthMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1260116940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>I get my new from google, and slashdot... which one of those is tied to the US government?</i>
<br> <br>
Well, neither one, as far as we know at the moment.<br> <br>OTOH Yahoo is charging them between $30 and $40 for the <a href="http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/12/06/1724208/Lawful-Spying-Price-Lists-Leaked?art\_pos=7" title="slashdot.org">contents of your Yahoo account.</a> [slashdot.org] But it's still up in the air what business ties exist between the government and Google- and how much (and to what extent) they're charging the cops for access to your gmail account.<br> <br>
As for Slashdot, I guess it depends on whether law enforcement thinks your posts are really worth handing Bob Malda a $5.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I get my new from google , and slashdot... which one of those is tied to the US government ?
Well , neither one , as far as we know at the moment .
OTOH Yahoo is charging them between $ 30 and $ 40 for the contents of your Yahoo account .
[ slashdot.org ] But it 's still up in the air what business ties exist between the government and Google- and how much ( and to what extent ) they 're charging the cops for access to your gmail account .
As for Slashdot , I guess it depends on whether law enforcement thinks your posts are really worth handing Bob Malda a $ 5 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I get my new from google, and slashdot... which one of those is tied to the US government?
Well, neither one, as far as we know at the moment.
OTOH Yahoo is charging them between $30 and $40 for the contents of your Yahoo account.
[slashdot.org] But it's still up in the air what business ties exist between the government and Google- and how much (and to what extent) they're charging the cops for access to your gmail account.
As for Slashdot, I guess it depends on whether law enforcement thinks your posts are really worth handing Bob Malda a $5.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348312</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348198</id>
	<title>Re:Everybody needs a little revolution now &amp; a</title>
	<author>Yergle143</author>
	<datestamp>1260110580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If your analogy holds true we should see some real changes in say 30 years.</p><p>As I watch the situation I look for only one barometer of popular dissent:<br>when I hear about a police and/or military mutiny. That's when things<br>are cooking.</p><p>537</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If your analogy holds true we should see some real changes in say 30 years.As I watch the situation I look for only one barometer of popular dissent : when I hear about a police and/or military mutiny .
That 's when thingsare cooking.537</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your analogy holds true we should see some real changes in say 30 years.As I watch the situation I look for only one barometer of popular dissent:when I hear about a police and/or military mutiny.
That's when thingsare cooking.537</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30349912</id>
	<title>Re:What's their downside?</title>
	<author>electrosoccertux</author>
	<datestamp>1260128400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The same thing happens when China "cracks down."  The media whines and opines for a while, but at the end of the day the rest of the world is powerless to stop these boneheads from abusing their own people.  I feel for those affected, but at some point the people inside the Matrix need to do more to help themselves.  Having the people outside complain really doesn't do a whole lot to make it better.</p><p>So if I'm a thug government, I know I can pretty much do what I want, especially if I have something the world wants (cheap labor/oil/etc).</p></div><p>As usual, the best way is to trade with them. Get them hooked on money and their businesses thriving and cutting out internet would set the entire country off at the regime.<br>If we could just get them to let us inspect their nuclear operations every 90 days then trade would be an option...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The same thing happens when China " cracks down .
" The media whines and opines for a while , but at the end of the day the rest of the world is powerless to stop these boneheads from abusing their own people .
I feel for those affected , but at some point the people inside the Matrix need to do more to help themselves .
Having the people outside complain really does n't do a whole lot to make it better.So if I 'm a thug government , I know I can pretty much do what I want , especially if I have something the world wants ( cheap labor/oil/etc ) .As usual , the best way is to trade with them .
Get them hooked on money and their businesses thriving and cutting out internet would set the entire country off at the regime.If we could just get them to let us inspect their nuclear operations every 90 days then trade would be an option.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The same thing happens when China "cracks down.
"  The media whines and opines for a while, but at the end of the day the rest of the world is powerless to stop these boneheads from abusing their own people.
I feel for those affected, but at some point the people inside the Matrix need to do more to help themselves.
Having the people outside complain really doesn't do a whole lot to make it better.So if I'm a thug government, I know I can pretty much do what I want, especially if I have something the world wants (cheap labor/oil/etc).As usual, the best way is to trade with them.
Get them hooked on money and their businesses thriving and cutting out internet would set the entire country off at the regime.If we could just get them to let us inspect their nuclear operations every 90 days then trade would be an option...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347672</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347626</id>
	<title>Do have Comcast in Iran?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260106620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If so, that would explain everything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If so , that would explain everything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If so, that would explain everything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30351528</id>
	<title>Re:What's their downside?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260193260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How's Guantanamo? Closed yet? Remind me, do you still torture? Still got the CIA death squads in action? Looking forward to the show trials in New York? How's the NSA surveillance going down? Seen any more heavily armed Blackshirt, sorry Blackwater, sorry Xe employees on the streets, or was that just New Orleans etc, etc</p><p>Remind me. Who said "If this was a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... just as long as I am the dictator" ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How 's Guantanamo ?
Closed yet ?
Remind me , do you still torture ?
Still got the CIA death squads in action ?
Looking forward to the show trials in New York ?
How 's the NSA surveillance going down ?
Seen any more heavily armed Blackshirt , sorry Blackwater , sorry Xe employees on the streets , or was that just New Orleans etc , etcRemind me .
Who said " If this was a dictatorship , it would be a heck of a lot easier ... just as long as I am the dictator " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How's Guantanamo?
Closed yet?
Remind me, do you still torture?
Still got the CIA death squads in action?
Looking forward to the show trials in New York?
How's the NSA surveillance going down?
Seen any more heavily armed Blackshirt, sorry Blackwater, sorry Xe employees on the streets, or was that just New Orleans etc, etcRemind me.
Who said "If this was a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier ... just as long as I am the dictator" ?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347672</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347326</id>
	<title>The short-lived power of twitter?</title>
	<author>genericcitizen</author>
	<datestamp>1260104460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>From slow tweet to no tweet?  Guess this might be the end of twitter as an organizing tool in Iran.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From slow tweet to no tweet ?
Guess this might be the end of twitter as an organizing tool in Iran .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From slow tweet to no tweet?
Guess this might be the end of twitter as an organizing tool in Iran.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348212</id>
	<title>The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260110700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., the army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people.  Period.
<p>
After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market.  Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.
</p><p>
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians.  The folks running the government are Iranian.  The president is Iranian.  The secret police are Iranian.  The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.
</p><p>
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur.  Why?  A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.
</p><p>
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government.  We must condemn Iranian culture.  Its product is the authoritarian state.
</p><p>

We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran.  If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence.  Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy.  The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.
</p><p>
The Iranians created this horrible society.  It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons.  We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
</p><p>

Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans.  They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people.  Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West.  Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society.  They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.
</p><p>
Cultures are different.  Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different.  The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran.  We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the absence of an external interfering force ( e. g. , the army of the Soviet Union ) , the fate of a nation is determined by its people .
Period . After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe , the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market .
Except for Romania ( where its people killed their dictator ) , there was no violence .
In Iran ( and many other failed states ) , no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians .
The folks running the government are Iranian .
The president is Iranian .
The secret police are Iranian .
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian .
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran , violence will occur .
Why ? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates .
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government .
We must condemn Iranian culture .
Its product is the authoritarian state .
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran .
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians ( like the overwhelming majority of Poles ) truly support democracy , human rights , and peace with Israel , then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence .
Right now , the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy .
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy .
The Iranians created this horrible society .
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons .
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities .
Note that , 40 years ago , Vietnam suffered a worse fate ( than the Iranians ) at the hands of the Americans .
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange , poisoning both the land and the people .
Yet , the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge ( by , e. g. , building a nuclear bomb ) against the West .
Rather , the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society .
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians .
Cultures are different .
Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different .
The Iranians bear 100 \ % of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran .
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., the army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people.
Period.

After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market.
Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians.
The folks running the government are Iranian.
The president is Iranian.
The secret police are Iranian.
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur.
Why?  A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government.
We must condemn Iranian culture.
Its product is the authoritarian state.
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran.
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence.
Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy.
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.
The Iranians created this horrible society.
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons.
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans.
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people.
Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West.
Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society.
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.
Cultures are different.
Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different.
The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran.
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350506</id>
	<title>subject</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260179340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Has anyone considered how cooperatively amazing the Iranians are?  They are a large community working together for what they want.  As an american, I am disappointed in how pathetic and lazy we are in fighting for our rights even if we are better off than Iranians in Iran.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone considered how cooperatively amazing the Iranians are ?
They are a large community working together for what they want .
As an american , I am disappointed in how pathetic and lazy we are in fighting for our rights even if we are better off than Iranians in Iran .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone considered how cooperatively amazing the Iranians are?
They are a large community working together for what they want.
As an american, I am disappointed in how pathetic and lazy we are in fighting for our rights even if we are better off than Iranians in Iran.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347610</id>
	<title>Re:How long can they make it last?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260106500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it is more about taking away the tactical organization of the protesters. I wonder if you could build a true P2P communication app to run on phones. Servers inside Iran would be vulnerable to police action and servers outside Iran can obviously be filtered. Something like each node (phone, laptop, etc) keeps a list of the IP addresses of other phones in the mesh. New members can join by manually typing in the IP address of a friends phone. IP addresses in the mesh are distrbuted through the network.</p><p>But that gets me thinking about The Moon is a harsh Mistress and the cell of three rule. Keep the mesh but allow each client to only talk to two other phones. Only one phone in the cell has the address of another cell. In effect, cells are members of cells but nobody had more then three IP addresses in memory.</p><p>This avoids having big vulnerable databases which the cops can grab. It will be called MYCROFTXXX of course.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it is more about taking away the tactical organization of the protesters .
I wonder if you could build a true P2P communication app to run on phones .
Servers inside Iran would be vulnerable to police action and servers outside Iran can obviously be filtered .
Something like each node ( phone , laptop , etc ) keeps a list of the IP addresses of other phones in the mesh .
New members can join by manually typing in the IP address of a friends phone .
IP addresses in the mesh are distrbuted through the network.But that gets me thinking about The Moon is a harsh Mistress and the cell of three rule .
Keep the mesh but allow each client to only talk to two other phones .
Only one phone in the cell has the address of another cell .
In effect , cells are members of cells but nobody had more then three IP addresses in memory.This avoids having big vulnerable databases which the cops can grab .
It will be called MYCROFTXXX of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it is more about taking away the tactical organization of the protesters.
I wonder if you could build a true P2P communication app to run on phones.
Servers inside Iran would be vulnerable to police action and servers outside Iran can obviously be filtered.
Something like each node (phone, laptop, etc) keeps a list of the IP addresses of other phones in the mesh.
New members can join by manually typing in the IP address of a friends phone.
IP addresses in the mesh are distrbuted through the network.But that gets me thinking about The Moon is a harsh Mistress and the cell of three rule.
Keep the mesh but allow each client to only talk to two other phones.
Only one phone in the cell has the address of another cell.
In effect, cells are members of cells but nobody had more then three IP addresses in memory.This avoids having big vulnerable databases which the cops can grab.
It will be called MYCROFTXXX of course.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347902</id>
	<title>You F`AIL 1t</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260108300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">hobbyist dilettant3 That *BSD 0wned. [tux.org]?  Are you could sink your</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>hobbyist dilettant3 That * BSD 0wned .
[ tux.org ] ? Are you could sink your [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hobbyist dilettant3 That *BSD 0wned.
[tux.org]?  Are you could sink your [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348884</id>
	<title>Heh.</title>
	<author>Lokinator</author>
	<datestamp>1260117000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45\_Liberator" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45\_Liberator</a> [wikipedia.org]

Time to fire up the production line, and carpet bomb Iran with the things....then stand well back.</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45 \ _Liberator [ wikipedia.org ] Time to fire up the production line , and carpet bomb Iran with the things....then stand well back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45\_Liberator [wikipedia.org]

Time to fire up the production line, and carpet bomb Iran with the things....then stand well back.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350188</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260218640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><b>Comment: A large percentage of the people support the government </b> <br> <br>

Answer: Yes, 15\%-18\%. In every single poll on the internet I have seen almost the same number. And no, they (people) won't kill each other for it. People in Iran do not have gun and it is illegal to have it. Besides Iranian society is considered an educated community (3.5 million are in universities from which 60\% are women).<br> <br>

<b>Comment: The Iranians created this horrible society. It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons.</b> <br> <br>

Answer: No they didn't. US did a coup in Iran 40-50 years ago and overthrow their national democratic government and returned the dictator "Shah" to power. people were forced to act more aggressive to put the Shah away. An aggressive act of revolution caused more aggressive opinions.<br> <br>

Then a war was exposed to Iran by Iraq (Sadam) which killed almost 1million Iranians. The war was supported by most Arab countries + Europeans + USA. Arabs paid Iraq by oil and cash (around 200 billion) and Europeans and US gave them weapons etc (including chemicals for illegal chemical warfare). 50,000 Iranians are effected by chemicals provided by Europeans to Sadam.<br> <br>

The same Sadam used those weapons against same Arab countries a few years later.<br> <br>

About your comment on Nukes I should say, USA is the only country which has both built and used nukes. US has started around 50 wars in recent history. Iran has never started any war in last150 years or more.<br> <br>

You want to condemn the 7000 years old culture of Iran which has the oldest history of Human rights and has been one of the cultural roots of the human being and then support your own culture and people which have started almost 50 wars (in which more than 10 million are killed) ??? have you looked at the mirror recently???</htmltext>
<tokenext>Comment : A large percentage of the people support the government Answer : Yes , 15 \ % -18 \ % .
In every single poll on the internet I have seen almost the same number .
And no , they ( people ) wo n't kill each other for it .
People in Iran do not have gun and it is illegal to have it .
Besides Iranian society is considered an educated community ( 3.5 million are in universities from which 60 \ % are women ) .
Comment : The Iranians created this horrible society .
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons .
Answer : No they did n't .
US did a coup in Iran 40-50 years ago and overthrow their national democratic government and returned the dictator " Shah " to power .
people were forced to act more aggressive to put the Shah away .
An aggressive act of revolution caused more aggressive opinions .
Then a war was exposed to Iran by Iraq ( Sadam ) which killed almost 1million Iranians .
The war was supported by most Arab countries + Europeans + USA .
Arabs paid Iraq by oil and cash ( around 200 billion ) and Europeans and US gave them weapons etc ( including chemicals for illegal chemical warfare ) .
50,000 Iranians are effected by chemicals provided by Europeans to Sadam .
The same Sadam used those weapons against same Arab countries a few years later .
About your comment on Nukes I should say , USA is the only country which has both built and used nukes .
US has started around 50 wars in recent history .
Iran has never started any war in last150 years or more .
You want to condemn the 7000 years old culture of Iran which has the oldest history of Human rights and has been one of the cultural roots of the human being and then support your own culture and people which have started almost 50 wars ( in which more than 10 million are killed ) ? ? ?
have you looked at the mirror recently ? ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Comment: A large percentage of the people support the government   

Answer: Yes, 15\%-18\%.
In every single poll on the internet I have seen almost the same number.
And no, they (people) won't kill each other for it.
People in Iran do not have gun and it is illegal to have it.
Besides Iranian society is considered an educated community (3.5 million are in universities from which 60\% are women).
Comment: The Iranians created this horrible society.
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons.
Answer: No they didn't.
US did a coup in Iran 40-50 years ago and overthrow their national democratic government and returned the dictator "Shah" to power.
people were forced to act more aggressive to put the Shah away.
An aggressive act of revolution caused more aggressive opinions.
Then a war was exposed to Iran by Iraq (Sadam) which killed almost 1million Iranians.
The war was supported by most Arab countries + Europeans + USA.
Arabs paid Iraq by oil and cash (around 200 billion) and Europeans and US gave them weapons etc (including chemicals for illegal chemical warfare).
50,000 Iranians are effected by chemicals provided by Europeans to Sadam.
The same Sadam used those weapons against same Arab countries a few years later.
About your comment on Nukes I should say, USA is the only country which has both built and used nukes.
US has started around 50 wars in recent history.
Iran has never started any war in last150 years or more.
You want to condemn the 7000 years old culture of Iran which has the oldest history of Human rights and has been one of the cultural roots of the human being and then support your own culture and people which have started almost 50 wars (in which more than 10 million are killed) ???
have you looked at the mirror recently??
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348860</id>
	<title>Re:Have they gotten to /.?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260116700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Offtopic/Troll/Flamebait in 3, 2, 1...</p></div><p>...0, -1.</p><p>Yep.  You got Flamebait.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Offtopic/Troll/Flamebait in 3 , 2 , 1......0 , -1.Yep .
You got Flamebait .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Offtopic/Troll/Flamebait in 3, 2, 1......0, -1.Yep.
You got Flamebait.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347684</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30358008</id>
	<title>Re:"Not on their end and not a technical glitch"</title>
	<author>\_Sprocket\_</author>
	<datestamp>1260181920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The last time they got themselves a real progressive force (Mr Mohammed Mossadeq), the CIA killed him and installed their guy, the Shah.</p></div><p>So what you're saying is that the CIA used cancer to kill him 14 years after the CIA induced a coup to remove him from power.  I see.  How very subtle of them.</p><p>One has to be very careful of how facts are presented.  There are times when there are mistakes.  And there are times when there are honest differences in interpretation.  And there are times when there are intentional tweaks to create propaganda.  As much as folks like to think they're above such influence, they often demonstrate rather handily that they are very much susceptible to it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The last time they got themselves a real progressive force ( Mr Mohammed Mossadeq ) , the CIA killed him and installed their guy , the Shah.So what you 're saying is that the CIA used cancer to kill him 14 years after the CIA induced a coup to remove him from power .
I see .
How very subtle of them.One has to be very careful of how facts are presented .
There are times when there are mistakes .
And there are times when there are honest differences in interpretation .
And there are times when there are intentional tweaks to create propaganda .
As much as folks like to think they 're above such influence , they often demonstrate rather handily that they are very much susceptible to it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The last time they got themselves a real progressive force (Mr Mohammed Mossadeq), the CIA killed him and installed their guy, the Shah.So what you're saying is that the CIA used cancer to kill him 14 years after the CIA induced a coup to remove him from power.
I see.
How very subtle of them.One has to be very careful of how facts are presented.
There are times when there are mistakes.
And there are times when there are honest differences in interpretation.
And there are times when there are intentional tweaks to create propaganda.
As much as folks like to think they're above such influence, they often demonstrate rather handily that they are very much susceptible to it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347614</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347684</id>
	<title>Re:Have they gotten to /.?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260107040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Where are all the articles denouncing the American government for supporting Israel's incursion into the occupied territories for all these years? Where are those which denounce them for invading Iraq or Afghanistan? Why do you ppl insist on mirroring 'traditional media' by following the propaganda offered by your own government.</p><p>Maybe I'm not being fair - maybe you don't realise what's actually happening in the world - noone could blame you as you are within the shroud of a media blackout.</p><p>Offtopic/Troll/Flamebait in 3, 2, 1...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Where are all the articles denouncing the American government for supporting Israel 's incursion into the occupied territories for all these years ?
Where are those which denounce them for invading Iraq or Afghanistan ?
Why do you ppl insist on mirroring 'traditional media ' by following the propaganda offered by your own government.Maybe I 'm not being fair - maybe you do n't realise what 's actually happening in the world - noone could blame you as you are within the shroud of a media blackout.Offtopic/Troll/Flamebait in 3 , 2 , 1.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where are all the articles denouncing the American government for supporting Israel's incursion into the occupied territories for all these years?
Where are those which denounce them for invading Iraq or Afghanistan?
Why do you ppl insist on mirroring 'traditional media' by following the propaganda offered by your own government.Maybe I'm not being fair - maybe you don't realise what's actually happening in the world - noone could blame you as you are within the shroud of a media blackout.Offtopic/Troll/Flamebait in 3, 2, 1...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347288</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347292</id>
	<title>Proxification?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260104280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone hosting tor ports to assist? I considered, but I'm nervous about having some<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/b/onehead abuse my address.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone hosting tor ports to assist ?
I considered , but I 'm nervous about having some /b/onehead abuse my address .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone hosting tor ports to assist?
I considered, but I'm nervous about having some /b/onehead abuse my address.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30351558</id>
	<title>Re:Everybody needs a little revolution now &amp; a</title>
	<author>damburger</author>
	<datestamp>1260193620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It won't be long; the religious despots pretty much all have colostomy bags by now, the youth have almost completely rejected their vision of how political Islam should look, and the middle aged religious moderates can see which way the wind is blowing and are making more and more reformist noises.</p><p>A society maintains continuity by the old passing on enough of their values to the young before they die. This process has clearly failed in Iran. The post-election protests showed conclusively to everyone in and outside Iran that the government only governs by force, not by even tacit consent. Theres more dark times ahead, but ultimately all the Iranian reformers need for victory now is patience.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It wo n't be long ; the religious despots pretty much all have colostomy bags by now , the youth have almost completely rejected their vision of how political Islam should look , and the middle aged religious moderates can see which way the wind is blowing and are making more and more reformist noises.A society maintains continuity by the old passing on enough of their values to the young before they die .
This process has clearly failed in Iran .
The post-election protests showed conclusively to everyone in and outside Iran that the government only governs by force , not by even tacit consent .
Theres more dark times ahead , but ultimately all the Iranian reformers need for victory now is patience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It won't be long; the religious despots pretty much all have colostomy bags by now, the youth have almost completely rejected their vision of how political Islam should look, and the middle aged religious moderates can see which way the wind is blowing and are making more and more reformist noises.A society maintains continuity by the old passing on enough of their values to the young before they die.
This process has clearly failed in Iran.
The post-election protests showed conclusively to everyone in and outside Iran that the government only governs by force, not by even tacit consent.
Theres more dark times ahead, but ultimately all the Iranian reformers need for victory now is patience.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30352606</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260199440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;US did a coup in Iran 40-50 years ago and overthrow their national democratic government and returned the dictator "Shah" to power.</p><p>From Wikipedia: "Reza Shah established an authoritarian government that valued nationalism, militarism, secularism and anti-communism combined with strict censorship and state propaganda."</p><p>&gt;&gt;people were forced to act more aggressive to put the Shah away</p><p>Total BS. Carter, the worst president in US history, withdrew support of the Shaw, allowing your evil Ayatollah Khomeini to establish a dictatorship. Idiots like yourself don't understand the concept of 'lesser of 2 evils'. The Shah was FAR less of an evil than Ayatollah Khomeini and the current Mullah-cracy.</p><p>Sounds like a wonderful "national democratic government", especially since Iran wanted to wipe Israel off the map</p><p>The US-installed Shah was the best thing that happened to your country. He modernized your country and was relatively peaceful.</p><p>"Iran which has the oldest history of Human rights" - don't make me laugh, Iran has lousy human rights.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; US did a coup in Iran 40-50 years ago and overthrow their national democratic government and returned the dictator " Shah " to power.From Wikipedia : " Reza Shah established an authoritarian government that valued nationalism , militarism , secularism and anti-communism combined with strict censorship and state propaganda .
" &gt; &gt; people were forced to act more aggressive to put the Shah awayTotal BS .
Carter , the worst president in US history , withdrew support of the Shaw , allowing your evil Ayatollah Khomeini to establish a dictatorship .
Idiots like yourself do n't understand the concept of 'lesser of 2 evils' .
The Shah was FAR less of an evil than Ayatollah Khomeini and the current Mullah-cracy.Sounds like a wonderful " national democratic government " , especially since Iran wanted to wipe Israel off the mapThe US-installed Shah was the best thing that happened to your country .
He modernized your country and was relatively peaceful .
" Iran which has the oldest history of Human rights " - do n't make me laugh , Iran has lousy human rights .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;US did a coup in Iran 40-50 years ago and overthrow their national democratic government and returned the dictator "Shah" to power.From Wikipedia: "Reza Shah established an authoritarian government that valued nationalism, militarism, secularism and anti-communism combined with strict censorship and state propaganda.
"&gt;&gt;people were forced to act more aggressive to put the Shah awayTotal BS.
Carter, the worst president in US history, withdrew support of the Shaw, allowing your evil Ayatollah Khomeini to establish a dictatorship.
Idiots like yourself don't understand the concept of 'lesser of 2 evils'.
The Shah was FAR less of an evil than Ayatollah Khomeini and the current Mullah-cracy.Sounds like a wonderful "national democratic government", especially since Iran wanted to wipe Israel off the mapThe US-installed Shah was the best thing that happened to your country.
He modernized your country and was relatively peaceful.
"Iran which has the oldest history of Human rights" - don't make me laugh, Iran has lousy human rights.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30349490</id>
	<title>Re:Bandwidth-wasting social sites</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1260123540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
IRC/Jabber servers running inside the country are easily traced and killed, as in, soldier goes to the person's house, puts a bullet through the server, and takes the owner away in cuffs to be subject to criminal charges.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IRC/Jabber servers running inside the country are easily traced and killed , as in , soldier goes to the person 's house , puts a bullet through the server , and takes the owner away in cuffs to be subject to criminal charges .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
IRC/Jabber servers running inside the country are easily traced and killed, as in, soldier goes to the person's house, puts a bullet through the server, and takes the owner away in cuffs to be subject to criminal charges.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347324</id>
	<title>How long can they make it last?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260104460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>How long do the authorities in Iran think they can keep this Internet slowdown going?  Sooner or later, they'll have to let up, and when they do, there's going to be a flood of blog posts and website updates about the latest protests.  Unless they cut off all Internet access forever, they can't stop it from happening, they can only delay it, and the longer they do, the worse it looks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How long do the authorities in Iran think they can keep this Internet slowdown going ?
Sooner or later , they 'll have to let up , and when they do , there 's going to be a flood of blog posts and website updates about the latest protests .
Unless they cut off all Internet access forever , they ca n't stop it from happening , they can only delay it , and the longer they do , the worse it looks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How long do the authorities in Iran think they can keep this Internet slowdown going?
Sooner or later, they'll have to let up, and when they do, there's going to be a flood of blog posts and website updates about the latest protests.
Unless they cut off all Internet access forever, they can't stop it from happening, they can only delay it, and the longer they do, the worse it looks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348990</id>
	<title>Re:Let's do it right this time.</title>
	<author>TubeSteak</author>
	<datestamp>1260118200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I hope the protest succeeds for many reasons, one of which is to show that regime change can be beneficial and effective without overt American influence.</p></div><p>Overt, covert, what's the difference?<br>Considering America's past, without proof to the contrary, I'm going to assume that we <i>are and have been</i> messing around with Iran's internal politics.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hope the protest succeeds for many reasons , one of which is to show that regime change can be beneficial and effective without overt American influence.Overt , covert , what 's the difference ? Considering America 's past , without proof to the contrary , I 'm going to assume that we are and have been messing around with Iran 's internal politics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hope the protest succeeds for many reasons, one of which is to show that regime change can be beneficial and effective without overt American influence.Overt, covert, what's the difference?Considering America's past, without proof to the contrary, I'm going to assume that we are and have been messing around with Iran's internal politics.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347338</id>
	<title>More protesting</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260104640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Doesn't this just give the students more reason to protest, starting right now? I'd be even more pissed if the internet we shut down on top of the political turmoil.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does n't this just give the students more reason to protest , starting right now ?
I 'd be even more pissed if the internet we shut down on top of the political turmoil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doesn't this just give the students more reason to protest, starting right now?
I'd be even more pissed if the internet we shut down on top of the political turmoil.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348968</id>
	<title>Re:Slow?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260118020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's enough to stop people from arranging protests and letting each other know where and what time to show up. Using phones for that purpose is not really safe because they are quite easy to tap. The speeds are low enough that even messenger services (Yahoo, MSN and GTalk) are not working as it takes forever to connect.<br> 

They have also ordered foreign journalists to stop reporting and stay home for a few days, to prevent the beating of protesters showing up live for the world to see.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's enough to stop people from arranging protests and letting each other know where and what time to show up .
Using phones for that purpose is not really safe because they are quite easy to tap .
The speeds are low enough that even messenger services ( Yahoo , MSN and GTalk ) are not working as it takes forever to connect .
They have also ordered foreign journalists to stop reporting and stay home for a few days , to prevent the beating of protesters showing up live for the world to see .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's enough to stop people from arranging protests and letting each other know where and what time to show up.
Using phones for that purpose is not really safe because they are quite easy to tap.
The speeds are low enough that even messenger services (Yahoo, MSN and GTalk) are not working as it takes forever to connect.
They have also ordered foreign journalists to stop reporting and stay home for a few days, to prevent the beating of protesters showing up live for the world to see.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347298</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30354844</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>NapalmScatterBrain</author>
	<datestamp>1260209220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am an American, and like close to half of my brethren, I am educated enough to know that Iran's democratically elected President was overthrown in a coup instigated primarily by the British and with heavy American involvement.  I love how you lump all Americans into the category of "most brainwashed people in the world."

The fact of the matter is that during the Cold War both America and the Soviet Union used the developing world as a battleground for their proxy wars.  Some were more direct (Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan) and others much less so (Central America, Middle East, half the countries in Africa).  America overthrew left leaning democracies that they saw as potentially becoming Soviet aligned and in their place put right wing dictatorships.  The Soviet Union installed and supported numerous left leaning, but still authoritarian dictatorships.  Now that the dust of the long Cold War has cleared, America is seen as the victor and also being responsible for all the damage that was done in the process.

This is not to justify what happened.  In all these cases, like Guatemala and Iran, it was horrible what happened, and had the American people known what was being done covertly in their name they would have been horrified.

So here's the big difference: I can sit here and criticize my government and what they have done and speak out against it.  I can run for office without being removed from the ballot by the Council of Guardians and the Supreme Leader.  I can vote in an election if I don't like how my President has run up double digit inflation and made ridiculous denials of the Holocaust(despite the fact that most Iranians know it happened) and actually have my vote counted.

Iran is no longer a democracy, or even a semblance of one.  If people in the developing world would stop making America the hegemonic boogeyman they make it out to be, and instead understand that it is a highly polarized country with a large contingent of people who believe in the international community, they might make some progress.  Instead they just blame America for all of the world's problems, ignoring the fact that if the Soviet Union had conquered the world, they would live in states resembling East Germany of the 1980's.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am an American , and like close to half of my brethren , I am educated enough to know that Iran 's democratically elected President was overthrown in a coup instigated primarily by the British and with heavy American involvement .
I love how you lump all Americans into the category of " most brainwashed people in the world .
" The fact of the matter is that during the Cold War both America and the Soviet Union used the developing world as a battleground for their proxy wars .
Some were more direct ( Vietnam , Korea , Afghanistan ) and others much less so ( Central America , Middle East , half the countries in Africa ) .
America overthrew left leaning democracies that they saw as potentially becoming Soviet aligned and in their place put right wing dictatorships .
The Soviet Union installed and supported numerous left leaning , but still authoritarian dictatorships .
Now that the dust of the long Cold War has cleared , America is seen as the victor and also being responsible for all the damage that was done in the process .
This is not to justify what happened .
In all these cases , like Guatemala and Iran , it was horrible what happened , and had the American people known what was being done covertly in their name they would have been horrified .
So here 's the big difference : I can sit here and criticize my government and what they have done and speak out against it .
I can run for office without being removed from the ballot by the Council of Guardians and the Supreme Leader .
I can vote in an election if I do n't like how my President has run up double digit inflation and made ridiculous denials of the Holocaust ( despite the fact that most Iranians know it happened ) and actually have my vote counted .
Iran is no longer a democracy , or even a semblance of one .
If people in the developing world would stop making America the hegemonic boogeyman they make it out to be , and instead understand that it is a highly polarized country with a large contingent of people who believe in the international community , they might make some progress .
Instead they just blame America for all of the world 's problems , ignoring the fact that if the Soviet Union had conquered the world , they would live in states resembling East Germany of the 1980 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am an American, and like close to half of my brethren, I am educated enough to know that Iran's democratically elected President was overthrown in a coup instigated primarily by the British and with heavy American involvement.
I love how you lump all Americans into the category of "most brainwashed people in the world.
"

The fact of the matter is that during the Cold War both America and the Soviet Union used the developing world as a battleground for their proxy wars.
Some were more direct (Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan) and others much less so (Central America, Middle East, half the countries in Africa).
America overthrew left leaning democracies that they saw as potentially becoming Soviet aligned and in their place put right wing dictatorships.
The Soviet Union installed and supported numerous left leaning, but still authoritarian dictatorships.
Now that the dust of the long Cold War has cleared, America is seen as the victor and also being responsible for all the damage that was done in the process.
This is not to justify what happened.
In all these cases, like Guatemala and Iran, it was horrible what happened, and had the American people known what was being done covertly in their name they would have been horrified.
So here's the big difference: I can sit here and criticize my government and what they have done and speak out against it.
I can run for office without being removed from the ballot by the Council of Guardians and the Supreme Leader.
I can vote in an election if I don't like how my President has run up double digit inflation and made ridiculous denials of the Holocaust(despite the fact that most Iranians know it happened) and actually have my vote counted.
Iran is no longer a democracy, or even a semblance of one.
If people in the developing world would stop making America the hegemonic boogeyman they make it out to be, and instead understand that it is a highly polarized country with a large contingent of people who believe in the international community, they might make some progress.
Instead they just blame America for all of the world's problems, ignoring the fact that if the Soviet Union had conquered the world, they would live in states resembling East Germany of the 1980's.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30351072</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347842</id>
	<title>As opposed to the U.S. where you just go to jail</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260107940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At least they can have protests.   In the United States,  you would be put in a "free speech zone" and have your picture taken by the FBI.     Or in the case of the GOP convention last year,  they just lock you up for violating a "fire code" and hold you 72 hours without charge and let you go after the convention is over.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At least they can have protests .
In the United States , you would be put in a " free speech zone " and have your picture taken by the FBI .
Or in the case of the GOP convention last year , they just lock you up for violating a " fire code " and hold you 72 hours without charge and let you go after the convention is over .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least they can have protests.
In the United States,  you would be put in a "free speech zone" and have your picture taken by the FBI.
Or in the case of the GOP convention last year,  they just lock you up for violating a "fire code" and hold you 72 hours without charge and let you go after the convention is over.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30353266</id>
	<title>Don't like history?  Revise it until you do!</title>
	<author>AP31R0N</author>
	<datestamp>1260202740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Answer: No they didn't. US did a coup in Iran 40-50 years ago and overthrow their national democratic government and returned the dictator "Shah" to power. people were forced to act more aggressive to put the Shah away. An aggressive act of revolution caused more aggressive opinions."</p><p>Wrong.  There were maybe a handful of Americans within Iran during the revolution.  The Iranians did all that to each other.</p><p>"Then a war was exposed to Iran by Iraq (Saddam) which killed almost 1million Iranians. The war was supported by most Arab countries + Europeans + USA. Arabs paid Iraq by oil and cash (around 200 billion) and Europeans and US gave them weapons etc (including chemicals for illegal chemical warfare). 50,000 Iranians are effected by chemicals provided by Europeans to Saddam."</p><p>Did you opposed the overthrow of Saddam? Which presidents did all this? Did you know that the US changes presidents from time to time?</p><p>"The same Saddam used those weapons against same Arab countries a few years later."</p><p>Well, he won't be gassing any Kurds or Iranians for a while.</p><p>"About your comment on Nukes I should say, USA is the only country which has both built and used nukes."</p><p>So?  It's naive to assume that the USSR wouldn't have used them if they had won that race.  Our use of them did two important things: ended WW2 (which Japan, Germany and Italy started, no the US) without a land invasion of Japan AND showed the world the horror of nuclear weapons.  Which in turn prevented their further USE.  Imagine the cold war without that knowledge.</p><p>"US has started around 50 wars in recent history. Iran has never started any war in last150 years or more."</p><p>Wrong.  The US hasn't started ANY wars in living memory.  Not one.  We've joined two after being attacked.  But we didn't start either of those and we tried to stay out of them.  Since then we learned that isolationism and cruel indifference don't work.</p><p>"You want to condemn the 7000 years old culture of Iran"</p><p>The culture that exists there is not based on the culture that existed before.  Once Islam took root there it became another culture.  If Islam took root in the US in the way it did in Iran, it would be a radically different culture.</p><p>Furthermore the sins and virtues of the ancestor are not the descendant's to bear.  i don't care if 1000 years ago some Iranian did $somethingMiraculous or $somethingAwful.  All parties involved are dead.  i could no more credit an Iranian born 20 years ago with the Cyrus Cylinder than i could a German born 20 years ago for Mein Kampf.  It doesn't matter in the slightest.</p><p>The person you replied to wasn't condemning 7000 years of culture.  Just the culture since 1935 or so.</p><p>Don't worry, i'll tell the girl at the campus bookstore how multiculti you are.  She'll be impressed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Answer : No they did n't .
US did a coup in Iran 40-50 years ago and overthrow their national democratic government and returned the dictator " Shah " to power .
people were forced to act more aggressive to put the Shah away .
An aggressive act of revolution caused more aggressive opinions. " Wrong .
There were maybe a handful of Americans within Iran during the revolution .
The Iranians did all that to each other .
" Then a war was exposed to Iran by Iraq ( Saddam ) which killed almost 1million Iranians .
The war was supported by most Arab countries + Europeans + USA .
Arabs paid Iraq by oil and cash ( around 200 billion ) and Europeans and US gave them weapons etc ( including chemicals for illegal chemical warfare ) .
50,000 Iranians are effected by chemicals provided by Europeans to Saddam .
" Did you opposed the overthrow of Saddam ?
Which presidents did all this ?
Did you know that the US changes presidents from time to time ?
" The same Saddam used those weapons against same Arab countries a few years later .
" Well , he wo n't be gassing any Kurds or Iranians for a while .
" About your comment on Nukes I should say , USA is the only country which has both built and used nukes. " So ?
It 's naive to assume that the USSR would n't have used them if they had won that race .
Our use of them did two important things : ended WW2 ( which Japan , Germany and Italy started , no the US ) without a land invasion of Japan AND showed the world the horror of nuclear weapons .
Which in turn prevented their further USE .
Imagine the cold war without that knowledge .
" US has started around 50 wars in recent history .
Iran has never started any war in last150 years or more. " Wrong .
The US has n't started ANY wars in living memory .
Not one .
We 've joined two after being attacked .
But we did n't start either of those and we tried to stay out of them .
Since then we learned that isolationism and cruel indifference do n't work .
" You want to condemn the 7000 years old culture of Iran " The culture that exists there is not based on the culture that existed before .
Once Islam took root there it became another culture .
If Islam took root in the US in the way it did in Iran , it would be a radically different culture.Furthermore the sins and virtues of the ancestor are not the descendant 's to bear .
i do n't care if 1000 years ago some Iranian did $ somethingMiraculous or $ somethingAwful .
All parties involved are dead .
i could no more credit an Iranian born 20 years ago with the Cyrus Cylinder than i could a German born 20 years ago for Mein Kampf .
It does n't matter in the slightest.The person you replied to was n't condemning 7000 years of culture .
Just the culture since 1935 or so.Do n't worry , i 'll tell the girl at the campus bookstore how multiculti you are .
She 'll be impressed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Answer: No they didn't.
US did a coup in Iran 40-50 years ago and overthrow their national democratic government and returned the dictator "Shah" to power.
people were forced to act more aggressive to put the Shah away.
An aggressive act of revolution caused more aggressive opinions."Wrong.
There were maybe a handful of Americans within Iran during the revolution.
The Iranians did all that to each other.
"Then a war was exposed to Iran by Iraq (Saddam) which killed almost 1million Iranians.
The war was supported by most Arab countries + Europeans + USA.
Arabs paid Iraq by oil and cash (around 200 billion) and Europeans and US gave them weapons etc (including chemicals for illegal chemical warfare).
50,000 Iranians are effected by chemicals provided by Europeans to Saddam.
"Did you opposed the overthrow of Saddam?
Which presidents did all this?
Did you know that the US changes presidents from time to time?
"The same Saddam used those weapons against same Arab countries a few years later.
"Well, he won't be gassing any Kurds or Iranians for a while.
"About your comment on Nukes I should say, USA is the only country which has both built and used nukes."So?
It's naive to assume that the USSR wouldn't have used them if they had won that race.
Our use of them did two important things: ended WW2 (which Japan, Germany and Italy started, no the US) without a land invasion of Japan AND showed the world the horror of nuclear weapons.
Which in turn prevented their further USE.
Imagine the cold war without that knowledge.
"US has started around 50 wars in recent history.
Iran has never started any war in last150 years or more."Wrong.
The US hasn't started ANY wars in living memory.
Not one.
We've joined two after being attacked.
But we didn't start either of those and we tried to stay out of them.
Since then we learned that isolationism and cruel indifference don't work.
"You want to condemn the 7000 years old culture of Iran"The culture that exists there is not based on the culture that existed before.
Once Islam took root there it became another culture.
If Islam took root in the US in the way it did in Iran, it would be a radically different culture.Furthermore the sins and virtues of the ancestor are not the descendant's to bear.
i don't care if 1000 years ago some Iranian did $somethingMiraculous or $somethingAwful.
All parties involved are dead.
i could no more credit an Iranian born 20 years ago with the Cyrus Cylinder than i could a German born 20 years ago for Mein Kampf.
It doesn't matter in the slightest.The person you replied to wasn't condemning 7000 years of culture.
Just the culture since 1935 or so.Don't worry, i'll tell the girl at the campus bookstore how multiculti you are.
She'll be impressed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348298</id>
	<title>Re:Let's do it right this time.</title>
	<author>vxice</author>
	<datestamp>1260111420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"regime change can be beneficial and effective"  how well did that regime change go for them last time?</htmltext>
<tokenext>" regime change can be beneficial and effective " how well did that regime change go for them last time ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"regime change can be beneficial and effective"  how well did that regime change go for them last time?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347838</id>
	<title>Tick-tock...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260107940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's only a matter of time now...</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's only a matter of time now.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's only a matter of time now...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350236</id>
	<title>Re:Hub and spoke control</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1260219120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And that is why we need netsukuku and other such projects to succeed: to forever remove the ability of any one person or entity to control millions of people's access to the network.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And that is why we need netsukuku and other such projects to succeed : to forever remove the ability of any one person or entity to control millions of people 's access to the network .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And that is why we need netsukuku and other such projects to succeed: to forever remove the ability of any one person or entity to control millions of people's access to the network.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347342</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347436</id>
	<title>Re:Let's do it right this time.</title>
	<author>Tezcat</author>
	<datestamp>1260105300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the regime controls the media well enough, any problems or threats can be described as American-sponsered.<br> <br>And if any change does occur, it'd not stop sympathetic conspiracists from blaming the downfall of an Islamic state on whoever they damn well wish: The US, the UK, or a sinister cabal of Zionists.<br> <br>Of course, this is discounting the major problem the anti-government Iranian students are facing; that those they oppose were revolutionary students once, ruthless ones at that, and know a few of the tricks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the regime controls the media well enough , any problems or threats can be described as American-sponsered .
And if any change does occur , it 'd not stop sympathetic conspiracists from blaming the downfall of an Islamic state on whoever they damn well wish : The US , the UK , or a sinister cabal of Zionists .
Of course , this is discounting the major problem the anti-government Iranian students are facing ; that those they oppose were revolutionary students once , ruthless ones at that , and know a few of the tricks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the regime controls the media well enough, any problems or threats can be described as American-sponsered.
And if any change does occur, it'd not stop sympathetic conspiracists from blaming the downfall of an Islamic state on whoever they damn well wish: The US, the UK, or a sinister cabal of Zionists.
Of course, this is discounting the major problem the anti-government Iranian students are facing; that those they oppose were revolutionary students once, ruthless ones at that, and know a few of the tricks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30352612</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>NevarMore</author>
	<datestamp>1260199500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Suggest quoting, your parent was moderated -1 and AC (dunno why, it was a decent post) so your responses made even less sense.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Answer: Yes, 15\%-18\%. In every single poll on the internet I have seen almost the same number.</p> </div><p>Wonderfully accurate source.</p><p><div class="quote"><p> People in Iran do not have gun and it is illegal to have it.</p> </div><p>It's probably also illegal to commit murder, so I don't think that illegally possessing a firearm is really the key law in play here. If you think you need a gun to kill someone you're not even really trying to examine the problem.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Besides Iranian society is considered an educated community (3.5 million are in universities from which 60\% are women).</p></div><p>What does the education level have to do with the opposition to the government? I have seen people who never completed primary school oppose the government as vehemently as anarchists with doctorates and people who have never completed primary school wave a flag just as well as doctoral grads working for the establishment.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Suggest quoting , your parent was moderated -1 and AC ( dunno why , it was a decent post ) so your responses made even less sense.Answer : Yes , 15 \ % -18 \ % .
In every single poll on the internet I have seen almost the same number .
Wonderfully accurate source .
People in Iran do not have gun and it is illegal to have it .
It 's probably also illegal to commit murder , so I do n't think that illegally possessing a firearm is really the key law in play here .
If you think you need a gun to kill someone you 're not even really trying to examine the problem.Besides Iranian society is considered an educated community ( 3.5 million are in universities from which 60 \ % are women ) .What does the education level have to do with the opposition to the government ?
I have seen people who never completed primary school oppose the government as vehemently as anarchists with doctorates and people who have never completed primary school wave a flag just as well as doctoral grads working for the establishment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Suggest quoting, your parent was moderated -1 and AC (dunno why, it was a decent post) so your responses made even less sense.Answer: Yes, 15\%-18\%.
In every single poll on the internet I have seen almost the same number.
Wonderfully accurate source.
People in Iran do not have gun and it is illegal to have it.
It's probably also illegal to commit murder, so I don't think that illegally possessing a firearm is really the key law in play here.
If you think you need a gun to kill someone you're not even really trying to examine the problem.Besides Iranian society is considered an educated community (3.5 million are in universities from which 60\% are women).What does the education level have to do with the opposition to the government?
I have seen people who never completed primary school oppose the government as vehemently as anarchists with doctorates and people who have never completed primary school wave a flag just as well as doctoral grads working for the establishment.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347864</id>
	<title>Re:Let's do it right this time.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260108060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe if the Americans stopped breaking International Law - the Iranians could be left in peace - there'd be no need for wave after wave of propaganda to set public opinion before the clearly-approaching action against Iran.</p><p>Iran has every right to pursue its interests - it's signed the non-proliferation treaty (unlike Israel which has masses of US nuclear weapons on its soil, again, against International Law).</p><p>Stop 'buying into' this shit as you guys say.</p><p>kthx.</p><p>America is sowing the seeds of terrorism in every country around the world - clearly this includes non-muslim/-arab states - where would you be if even 1\% of the horrors you've committed/sponsored against the rest of the world came back to you? hint: horrors beyond your imagining; hundreds/thousands of times worse than 911, again and again. For fuck's sake - stop reading your government-controlled propaganda - New York Times etc and start controlling your 'leaders'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe if the Americans stopped breaking International Law - the Iranians could be left in peace - there 'd be no need for wave after wave of propaganda to set public opinion before the clearly-approaching action against Iran.Iran has every right to pursue its interests - it 's signed the non-proliferation treaty ( unlike Israel which has masses of US nuclear weapons on its soil , again , against International Law ) .Stop 'buying into ' this shit as you guys say.kthx.America is sowing the seeds of terrorism in every country around the world - clearly this includes non-muslim/-arab states - where would you be if even 1 \ % of the horrors you 've committed/sponsored against the rest of the world came back to you ?
hint : horrors beyond your imagining ; hundreds/thousands of times worse than 911 , again and again .
For fuck 's sake - stop reading your government-controlled propaganda - New York Times etc and start controlling your 'leaders' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe if the Americans stopped breaking International Law - the Iranians could be left in peace - there'd be no need for wave after wave of propaganda to set public opinion before the clearly-approaching action against Iran.Iran has every right to pursue its interests - it's signed the non-proliferation treaty (unlike Israel which has masses of US nuclear weapons on its soil, again, against International Law).Stop 'buying into' this shit as you guys say.kthx.America is sowing the seeds of terrorism in every country around the world - clearly this includes non-muslim/-arab states - where would you be if even 1\% of the horrors you've committed/sponsored against the rest of the world came back to you?
hint: horrors beyond your imagining; hundreds/thousands of times worse than 911, again and again.
For fuck's sake - stop reading your government-controlled propaganda - New York Times etc and start controlling your 'leaders'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30351720</id>
	<title>Re:Have they gotten to /.?</title>
	<author>h4rm0ny</author>
	<datestamp>1260195420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><br>
The log "in your own eye" is pretty big. Witness the near constant half-accusations in the media about Iran at the moment. The repeated "some people think the elections were rigged" claim even when the US's own research suggests Ahmadinejad won the election because he really is very popular in Iran. A sudden rush of "look at the Iranian totalitarianism" stories. The constant exaggeration and air-brushing of the protests in the media. Mousavi supporters setting fire to cars? Nothing. Police arresting people? All over the news. Ahmadinejad does something questionable? Everywhere. Any questionable behaviour by Mousavi? Never reported. Ahmadinejad blames outside forces for formenting unrest - mockery. Mentioning that the US Congress has allocated millions to supporting opposition groups within the country and that two years ago the CIA were given approval by Bush to carry out destabalisation operations in Iran (both matters of public record) - most people don't know that.
<br> <br>
You can only have an effective democracy if the populace is informed. That's true of Iran, and it's also true of the USA. If you want to know why we're suddenly seeing news stories about Iran everywhere and outraged people appearing online everywhere, the reason is simple and very scary. The USA thinks it might get dragged into a war with Iran by Israel and wants to get pre-emptive approval by its populace. Whether or not people think the USA should go to war or not, they should at least grant or withold their approval based on the actual situation. Not "someone was censored but no, we're not giving specifics" sort of stories.
<br> <br>
I'm going to try and outline why I think the US is doing a media war on Iran. Apologies for length, but I could write triple this quite easily.
<br> <br>
It's news all of a sudden mostly because there's a crisis with Iran at the moment. Iran may or may not be working towards nuclear weapons. We don't know for certain. They're working toward nuclear power which they have every right to and, in fact, if they have sense, really need to develop for a number of good reasons. But there are suspicions that they are also trying to gain nuclear weapons capability. Which given the threats to them from other powers, also makes good sense for them, but they deny that they are doing this. A lot of the intelligence comes from the Israeli intelligence communities who seem pretty confident that their is a nuclear weapons program and that, although nuclear capability isn't imminent, is on the roadmap (I've heard figures like ten years passed around, but also a couple of lower estimates). Anyway, say what you like about the Israeli's ethics, they have a Hellishly effective black ops^H^H^H^H^H intelligence community. If anyone knows what the Iranian government is up to other than the Iranians themselves, it's the Israelies.
<br> <br>
Now we don't know that they're developing nuclear weapons. But Israel is serious enough about this that they're talking about military action. Now this bit is personal opinion, but I don't think a nuclear-capable Iran would attack Israel. Why would they? It would only invite similar retribution in kind. Plus Iran hasn't initiated a war of aggression in forever. Plus they have nothing to gain in material terms. Not even in political capital as even the Palestinians don't want to see Israel suffer nuclear strikes (they just want their own state and bit less bombing, please). If Israel went to war, the Palestinians would suffer more than anyone. But what a nuclear capable Iran would mean would be that the Palestinians suddenly had a big brother that couldn't be threatened and it would change the regional power balance quite heavily. It looks like Israel wont countenance that possibility, hence the talk of pre-emptive strikes.
<br> <br>
Now sorry for having been so long-winded in all this, and that much of it has been about Israel, but it really is the elephant in the room. The nice thing here however, is that the USA is in some ways, finally back in the roll of the good guy (which is exactly what the r</htmltext>
<tokenext>The log " in your own eye " is pretty big .
Witness the near constant half-accusations in the media about Iran at the moment .
The repeated " some people think the elections were rigged " claim even when the US 's own research suggests Ahmadinejad won the election because he really is very popular in Iran .
A sudden rush of " look at the Iranian totalitarianism " stories .
The constant exaggeration and air-brushing of the protests in the media .
Mousavi supporters setting fire to cars ?
Nothing. Police arresting people ?
All over the news .
Ahmadinejad does something questionable ?
Everywhere. Any questionable behaviour by Mousavi ?
Never reported .
Ahmadinejad blames outside forces for formenting unrest - mockery .
Mentioning that the US Congress has allocated millions to supporting opposition groups within the country and that two years ago the CIA were given approval by Bush to carry out destabalisation operations in Iran ( both matters of public record ) - most people do n't know that .
You can only have an effective democracy if the populace is informed .
That 's true of Iran , and it 's also true of the USA .
If you want to know why we 're suddenly seeing news stories about Iran everywhere and outraged people appearing online everywhere , the reason is simple and very scary .
The USA thinks it might get dragged into a war with Iran by Israel and wants to get pre-emptive approval by its populace .
Whether or not people think the USA should go to war or not , they should at least grant or withold their approval based on the actual situation .
Not " someone was censored but no , we 're not giving specifics " sort of stories .
I 'm going to try and outline why I think the US is doing a media war on Iran .
Apologies for length , but I could write triple this quite easily .
It 's news all of a sudden mostly because there 's a crisis with Iran at the moment .
Iran may or may not be working towards nuclear weapons .
We do n't know for certain .
They 're working toward nuclear power which they have every right to and , in fact , if they have sense , really need to develop for a number of good reasons .
But there are suspicions that they are also trying to gain nuclear weapons capability .
Which given the threats to them from other powers , also makes good sense for them , but they deny that they are doing this .
A lot of the intelligence comes from the Israeli intelligence communities who seem pretty confident that their is a nuclear weapons program and that , although nuclear capability is n't imminent , is on the roadmap ( I 've heard figures like ten years passed around , but also a couple of lower estimates ) .
Anyway , say what you like about the Israeli 's ethics , they have a Hellishly effective black ops ^ H ^ H ^ H ^ H ^ H intelligence community .
If anyone knows what the Iranian government is up to other than the Iranians themselves , it 's the Israelies .
Now we do n't know that they 're developing nuclear weapons .
But Israel is serious enough about this that they 're talking about military action .
Now this bit is personal opinion , but I do n't think a nuclear-capable Iran would attack Israel .
Why would they ?
It would only invite similar retribution in kind .
Plus Iran has n't initiated a war of aggression in forever .
Plus they have nothing to gain in material terms .
Not even in political capital as even the Palestinians do n't want to see Israel suffer nuclear strikes ( they just want their own state and bit less bombing , please ) .
If Israel went to war , the Palestinians would suffer more than anyone .
But what a nuclear capable Iran would mean would be that the Palestinians suddenly had a big brother that could n't be threatened and it would change the regional power balance quite heavily .
It looks like Israel wont countenance that possibility , hence the talk of pre-emptive strikes .
Now sorry for having been so long-winded in all this , and that much of it has been about Israel , but it really is the elephant in the room .
The nice thing here however , is that the USA is in some ways , finally back in the roll of the good guy ( which is exactly what the r</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
The log "in your own eye" is pretty big.
Witness the near constant half-accusations in the media about Iran at the moment.
The repeated "some people think the elections were rigged" claim even when the US's own research suggests Ahmadinejad won the election because he really is very popular in Iran.
A sudden rush of "look at the Iranian totalitarianism" stories.
The constant exaggeration and air-brushing of the protests in the media.
Mousavi supporters setting fire to cars?
Nothing. Police arresting people?
All over the news.
Ahmadinejad does something questionable?
Everywhere. Any questionable behaviour by Mousavi?
Never reported.
Ahmadinejad blames outside forces for formenting unrest - mockery.
Mentioning that the US Congress has allocated millions to supporting opposition groups within the country and that two years ago the CIA were given approval by Bush to carry out destabalisation operations in Iran (both matters of public record) - most people don't know that.
You can only have an effective democracy if the populace is informed.
That's true of Iran, and it's also true of the USA.
If you want to know why we're suddenly seeing news stories about Iran everywhere and outraged people appearing online everywhere, the reason is simple and very scary.
The USA thinks it might get dragged into a war with Iran by Israel and wants to get pre-emptive approval by its populace.
Whether or not people think the USA should go to war or not, they should at least grant or withold their approval based on the actual situation.
Not "someone was censored but no, we're not giving specifics" sort of stories.
I'm going to try and outline why I think the US is doing a media war on Iran.
Apologies for length, but I could write triple this quite easily.
It's news all of a sudden mostly because there's a crisis with Iran at the moment.
Iran may or may not be working towards nuclear weapons.
We don't know for certain.
They're working toward nuclear power which they have every right to and, in fact, if they have sense, really need to develop for a number of good reasons.
But there are suspicions that they are also trying to gain nuclear weapons capability.
Which given the threats to them from other powers, also makes good sense for them, but they deny that they are doing this.
A lot of the intelligence comes from the Israeli intelligence communities who seem pretty confident that their is a nuclear weapons program and that, although nuclear capability isn't imminent, is on the roadmap (I've heard figures like ten years passed around, but also a couple of lower estimates).
Anyway, say what you like about the Israeli's ethics, they have a Hellishly effective black ops^H^H^H^H^H intelligence community.
If anyone knows what the Iranian government is up to other than the Iranians themselves, it's the Israelies.
Now we don't know that they're developing nuclear weapons.
But Israel is serious enough about this that they're talking about military action.
Now this bit is personal opinion, but I don't think a nuclear-capable Iran would attack Israel.
Why would they?
It would only invite similar retribution in kind.
Plus Iran hasn't initiated a war of aggression in forever.
Plus they have nothing to gain in material terms.
Not even in political capital as even the Palestinians don't want to see Israel suffer nuclear strikes (they just want their own state and bit less bombing, please).
If Israel went to war, the Palestinians would suffer more than anyone.
But what a nuclear capable Iran would mean would be that the Palestinians suddenly had a big brother that couldn't be threatened and it would change the regional power balance quite heavily.
It looks like Israel wont countenance that possibility, hence the talk of pre-emptive strikes.
Now sorry for having been so long-winded in all this, and that much of it has been about Israel, but it really is the elephant in the room.
The nice thing here however, is that the USA is in some ways, finally back in the roll of the good guy (which is exactly what the r</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30349230</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347412</id>
	<title>Re:Let's do it right this time.</title>
	<author>sakdoctor</author>
	<datestamp>1260105180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your sentimentalism sickens me.<br>How can your anti-globalization sentiment outweigh the fact that Iran is a highly oppressive, human rights abusing theocracy?</p><p>You wouldn't be able to set foot there to enjoy the McDonalds free streets, before being tortured, and used as a political bargaining chip.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your sentimentalism sickens me.How can your anti-globalization sentiment outweigh the fact that Iran is a highly oppressive , human rights abusing theocracy ? You would n't be able to set foot there to enjoy the McDonalds free streets , before being tortured , and used as a political bargaining chip .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your sentimentalism sickens me.How can your anti-globalization sentiment outweigh the fact that Iran is a highly oppressive, human rights abusing theocracy?You wouldn't be able to set foot there to enjoy the McDonalds free streets, before being tortured, and used as a political bargaining chip.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30355906</id>
	<title>Re:Don't like history? Revise it until you do!</title>
	<author>AP31R0N</author>
	<datestamp>1260214260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Remember kids:<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. is just like Digg. If you disagree with someone mod them as a troll to bury their comment. It's not censorship when YOU do it!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Remember kids : / .
is just like Digg .
If you disagree with someone mod them as a troll to bury their comment .
It 's not censorship when YOU do it !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remember kids: /.
is just like Digg.
If you disagree with someone mod them as a troll to bury their comment.
It's not censorship when YOU do it!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30353266</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30350516</id>
	<title>Re:Everybody needs a little revolution now &amp; a</title>
	<author>Fuji Kitakyusho</author>
	<datestamp>1260179400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This time around, the revolution WILL be televised (but apparently, just not in web-streamed 1080p).</htmltext>
<tokenext>This time around , the revolution WILL be televised ( but apparently , just not in web-streamed 1080p ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This time around, the revolution WILL be televised (but apparently, just not in web-streamed 1080p).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347398</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348460</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>smitty777</author>
	<datestamp>1260112800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey Anonymous Coward - if you're going to write something, at least don't cut and paste from your previous post (...your post from Iranian Crackdowns yesterday):</p><p><div class="quote"><p>In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., the army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people. Period.</p><p>After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market. Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.</p><p>In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians. The folks running the government are Iranian. The president is Iranian. The secret police are Iranian. The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.</p><p>If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur. Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.</p><p>Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government. We must condemn Iranian culture. Its product is the authoritarian state.</p><p>We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran. If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence. Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy. The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.</p><p>The Iranians created this horrible society. It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons. We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.</p><p>Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans. They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people. Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West. Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society. They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.</p><p>Cultures are different. Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different. The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran. We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey Anonymous Coward - if you 're going to write something , at least do n't cut and paste from your previous post ( ...your post from Iranian Crackdowns yesterday ) : In the absence of an external interfering force ( e. g. , the army of the Soviet Union ) , the fate of a nation is determined by its people .
Period.After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe , the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market .
Except for Romania ( where its people killed their dictator ) , there was no violence.In Iran ( and many other failed states ) , no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians .
The folks running the government are Iranian .
The president is Iranian .
The secret police are Iranian .
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran , violence will occur .
Why ? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government .
We must condemn Iranian culture .
Its product is the authoritarian state.We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran .
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians ( like the overwhelming majority of Poles ) truly support democracy , human rights , and peace with Israel , then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence .
Right now , the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy .
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.The Iranians created this horrible society .
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons .
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.Note that , 40 years ago , Vietnam suffered a worse fate ( than the Iranians ) at the hands of the Americans .
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange , poisoning both the land and the people .
Yet , the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge ( by , e. g. , building a nuclear bomb ) against the West .
Rather , the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society .
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.Cultures are different .
Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different .
The Iranians bear 100 \ % of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran .
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey Anonymous Coward - if you're going to write something, at least don't cut and paste from your previous post (...your post from Iranian Crackdowns yesterday):In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., the army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people.
Period.After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market.
Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians.
The folks running the government are Iranian.
The president is Iranian.
The secret police are Iranian.
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur.
Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government.
We must condemn Iranian culture.
Its product is the authoritarian state.We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran.
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence.
Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy.
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.The Iranians created this horrible society.
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons.
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans.
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people.
Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West.
Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society.
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.Cultures are different.
Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different.
The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran.
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348732</id>
	<title>Re:The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1260115500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While I'm not wholly unsympathetic to your(at this point heavily copypasta) position, I think it lacks a certain something.<br> <br>

So called "force multipliers" and, more broadly, the fact that the "absence of an external interfering force" is rather like the "rational self-interested agent". At best, it is a useful approximation of the truth, at worst, it does the truth considerable violence whenever it is employed.<br> <br>

In this case, for instance, a subset of Iran has its hands on the levers that control internet and cellular network behavior and access. This media control gives them outsize influence over the society's discourse. Much of that stuff isn't indigenous hardware. Selling switches isn't nearly as dramatic as being an occupying army; but it is not wholly different in effect.<br> <br>

To the degree that the present regime finds an international marketplace ready and willing to take the financial fruits of their domestic control and turn those into a variety of useful force-multiplying hardware, the present regime is supported by the international marketplace.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While I 'm not wholly unsympathetic to your ( at this point heavily copypasta ) position , I think it lacks a certain something .
So called " force multipliers " and , more broadly , the fact that the " absence of an external interfering force " is rather like the " rational self-interested agent " .
At best , it is a useful approximation of the truth , at worst , it does the truth considerable violence whenever it is employed .
In this case , for instance , a subset of Iran has its hands on the levers that control internet and cellular network behavior and access .
This media control gives them outsize influence over the society 's discourse .
Much of that stuff is n't indigenous hardware .
Selling switches is n't nearly as dramatic as being an occupying army ; but it is not wholly different in effect .
To the degree that the present regime finds an international marketplace ready and willing to take the financial fruits of their domestic control and turn those into a variety of useful force-multiplying hardware , the present regime is supported by the international marketplace .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I'm not wholly unsympathetic to your(at this point heavily copypasta) position, I think it lacks a certain something.
So called "force multipliers" and, more broadly, the fact that the "absence of an external interfering force" is rather like the "rational self-interested agent".
At best, it is a useful approximation of the truth, at worst, it does the truth considerable violence whenever it is employed.
In this case, for instance, a subset of Iran has its hands on the levers that control internet and cellular network behavior and access.
This media control gives them outsize influence over the society's discourse.
Much of that stuff isn't indigenous hardware.
Selling switches isn't nearly as dramatic as being an occupying army; but it is not wholly different in effect.
To the degree that the present regime finds an international marketplace ready and willing to take the financial fruits of their domestic control and turn those into a variety of useful force-multiplying hardware, the present regime is supported by the international marketplace.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30348212</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30354406</id>
	<title>Re:Let's do it right this time.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260207540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Two friends of mine recently (6-9) months ago came back from there, but they haven't really said anything about the torture. I'm sure some time at Gitmo would refresh their memories.</p><p>Not that they haven't mentioned anything about an aura of oppression, but it's not like Libia or Mozambique.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Two friends of mine recently ( 6-9 ) months ago came back from there , but they have n't really said anything about the torture .
I 'm sure some time at Gitmo would refresh their memories.Not that they have n't mentioned anything about an aura of oppression , but it 's not like Libia or Mozambique .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Two friends of mine recently (6-9) months ago came back from there, but they haven't really said anything about the torture.
I'm sure some time at Gitmo would refresh their memories.Not that they haven't mentioned anything about an aura of oppression, but it's not like Libia or Mozambique.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_06_2339228.30347412</parent>
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