<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_04_0517225</id>
	<title>Modded Xbox Bans Prompt EFF Warning About Terms of Service</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1259947140000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Last month we discussed news that Microsoft had <a href="http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/11/11/1821255/Microsoft-Disconnects-Modded-Xbox-Users">banned hundreds of thousands of Xbox users</a> for using modified consoles. The Electronic Frontier Foundation has now pointed to this round of bans as a prime example of <a href="http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/11/xbox-live-bans-cautionary-tale-tos">the power given to providers of online services through 'Terms of Service'</a> and other usage agreements.
<i>"No matter how much we rely on them to get on with our everyday lives, access to online services &mdash; like email, social networking sites, and (wait for it) online gaming &mdash; can never be guaranteed. ... he who writes the TOS makes the rules, and when it comes to enforcing them, the service provider often behaves as though it is also the judge, jury and executioner. ... While the mass ban provides a useful illustration of their danger, these terms can be found in nearly all TOS agreements for all kinds of services. There have been virtually no legal challenges to these kinds of arbitrary termination clauses, but we imagine this will be a growth area for lawyers."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Last month we discussed news that Microsoft had banned hundreds of thousands of Xbox users for using modified consoles .
The Electronic Frontier Foundation has now pointed to this round of bans as a prime example of the power given to providers of online services through 'Terms of Service ' and other usage agreements .
" No matter how much we rely on them to get on with our everyday lives , access to online services    like email , social networking sites , and ( wait for it ) online gaming    can never be guaranteed .
... he who writes the TOS makes the rules , and when it comes to enforcing them , the service provider often behaves as though it is also the judge , jury and executioner .
... While the mass ban provides a useful illustration of their danger , these terms can be found in nearly all TOS agreements for all kinds of services .
There have been virtually no legal challenges to these kinds of arbitrary termination clauses , but we imagine this will be a growth area for lawyers .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last month we discussed news that Microsoft had banned hundreds of thousands of Xbox users for using modified consoles.
The Electronic Frontier Foundation has now pointed to this round of bans as a prime example of the power given to providers of online services through 'Terms of Service' and other usage agreements.
"No matter how much we rely on them to get on with our everyday lives, access to online services — like email, social networking sites, and (wait for it) online gaming — can never be guaranteed.
... he who writes the TOS makes the rules, and when it comes to enforcing them, the service provider often behaves as though it is also the judge, jury and executioner.
... While the mass ban provides a useful illustration of their danger, these terms can be found in nearly all TOS agreements for all kinds of services.
There have been virtually no legal challenges to these kinds of arbitrary termination clauses, but we imagine this will be a growth area for lawyers.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321238</id>
	<title>Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259866140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't mean to sound like I'm defending Microsoft, but...</p><p>If you enter into any contract, you have to abide by the rules.  There's NOTHING new here.  Online service, game service (like Xbox Live), Phone service... even a lawn mowing service has terms to its contract.</p><p>Guess what kids?  Your actions have consequences.  You should have the maturity to own up to those consequences.</p><p>Contracts (and contract law) aren't anything remotely new.  They've been thought out by many a great thinker for millennia.  Calling contract law a "growth market" is about as far from the truth as it gets.  Contracts are one of the oldest, most hashed-out, and most concrete aspects of law in any society.  The entire point of contract law is to avoid lawsuits, specifically because there is so little wiggle room if both parties agree to the contract.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't mean to sound like I 'm defending Microsoft , but...If you enter into any contract , you have to abide by the rules .
There 's NOTHING new here .
Online service , game service ( like Xbox Live ) , Phone service... even a lawn mowing service has terms to its contract.Guess what kids ?
Your actions have consequences .
You should have the maturity to own up to those consequences.Contracts ( and contract law ) are n't anything remotely new .
They 've been thought out by many a great thinker for millennia .
Calling contract law a " growth market " is about as far from the truth as it gets .
Contracts are one of the oldest , most hashed-out , and most concrete aspects of law in any society .
The entire point of contract law is to avoid lawsuits , specifically because there is so little wiggle room if both parties agree to the contract .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't mean to sound like I'm defending Microsoft, but...If you enter into any contract, you have to abide by the rules.
There's NOTHING new here.
Online service, game service (like Xbox Live), Phone service... even a lawn mowing service has terms to its contract.Guess what kids?
Your actions have consequences.
You should have the maturity to own up to those consequences.Contracts (and contract law) aren't anything remotely new.
They've been thought out by many a great thinker for millennia.
Calling contract law a "growth market" is about as far from the truth as it gets.
Contracts are one of the oldest, most hashed-out, and most concrete aspects of law in any society.
The entire point of contract law is to avoid lawsuits, specifically because there is so little wiggle room if both parties agree to the contract.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30323522</id>
	<title>Re:It's a net loss</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259941200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you had been banned within the last couple of months, you would have also had your save data corrupted, and your hard drive permanently disabled. Interestingly, those two SMALL details were left out of the terms of service. If MS's Xbox 360 strategy is allowed, be prepared to have your hard drive nuked for using an non-licensed or modified program on your computer, because that's exactly what they're doing to 360 enthusiasts right now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you had been banned within the last couple of months , you would have also had your save data corrupted , and your hard drive permanently disabled .
Interestingly , those two SMALL details were left out of the terms of service .
If MS 's Xbox 360 strategy is allowed , be prepared to have your hard drive nuked for using an non-licensed or modified program on your computer , because that 's exactly what they 're doing to 360 enthusiasts right now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you had been banned within the last couple of months, you would have also had your save data corrupted, and your hard drive permanently disabled.
Interestingly, those two SMALL details were left out of the terms of service.
If MS's Xbox 360 strategy is allowed, be prepared to have your hard drive nuked for using an non-licensed or modified program on your computer, because that's exactly what they're doing to 360 enthusiasts right now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322634</id>
	<title>It is a private network</title>
	<author>DaveV1.0</author>
	<datestamp>1259934120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>XBoxLive is Microsoft's private network. Only Microsoft has a right to use it. For everyone else, the use is XBoxLive is a privilege.</p><p>Microsoft owns it. Microsoft runs it. Microsoft sets the rules. Microsoft says the service is for unmodified XBox systems and if you have a modified XBox, you can't use the service.</p><p>XBoxLive is a service and Microsoft does not have to provide the service to anyone it doesn't want to provide it to as long as it isn't discriminatory under the law.</p><p>The EFF needs to shut the fuck up until it dig it's collective head out of it's collective ass.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>XBoxLive is Microsoft 's private network .
Only Microsoft has a right to use it .
For everyone else , the use is XBoxLive is a privilege.Microsoft owns it .
Microsoft runs it .
Microsoft sets the rules .
Microsoft says the service is for unmodified XBox systems and if you have a modified XBox , you ca n't use the service.XBoxLive is a service and Microsoft does not have to provide the service to anyone it does n't want to provide it to as long as it is n't discriminatory under the law.The EFF needs to shut the fuck up until it dig it 's collective head out of it 's collective ass .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>XBoxLive is Microsoft's private network.
Only Microsoft has a right to use it.
For everyone else, the use is XBoxLive is a privilege.Microsoft owns it.
Microsoft runs it.
Microsoft sets the rules.
Microsoft says the service is for unmodified XBox systems and if you have a modified XBox, you can't use the service.XBoxLive is a service and Microsoft does not have to provide the service to anyone it doesn't want to provide it to as long as it isn't discriminatory under the law.The EFF needs to shut the fuck up until it dig it's collective head out of it's collective ass.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322056</id>
	<title>Re:Just saw something interesting with Borderlands</title>
	<author>cbhacking</author>
	<datestamp>1259922180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Um... what was that about upgrade installs? I've certainly used those on non-OEM images. In fact,t he very first thing I do with an OEM image, after booting it to make sure the computer works, is reformat that shit right off.</p><p>Mind you, the previous copy of Windows was legit, but it was certainly not OEM and I had no problem using an upgrade copy. Installer checks, sees an old version, then goes ahead and reformats the drive for a clean install.</p><p>It's possible that the installer checks to see if your copy is legit, and fails if it isn't. Considering you're getting a discount (upgrade vs. full install) on the basis of having paid for a previous version of the software, this sounds perfectly reasonable to me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Um... what was that about upgrade installs ?
I 've certainly used those on non-OEM images .
In fact,t he very first thing I do with an OEM image , after booting it to make sure the computer works , is reformat that shit right off.Mind you , the previous copy of Windows was legit , but it was certainly not OEM and I had no problem using an upgrade copy .
Installer checks , sees an old version , then goes ahead and reformats the drive for a clean install.It 's possible that the installer checks to see if your copy is legit , and fails if it is n't .
Considering you 're getting a discount ( upgrade vs. full install ) on the basis of having paid for a previous version of the software , this sounds perfectly reasonable to me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um... what was that about upgrade installs?
I've certainly used those on non-OEM images.
In fact,t he very first thing I do with an OEM image, after booting it to make sure the computer works, is reformat that shit right off.Mind you, the previous copy of Windows was legit, but it was certainly not OEM and I had no problem using an upgrade copy.
Installer checks, sees an old version, then goes ahead and reformats the drive for a clean install.It's possible that the installer checks to see if your copy is legit, and fails if it isn't.
Considering you're getting a discount (upgrade vs. full install) on the basis of having paid for a previous version of the software, this sounds perfectly reasonable to me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321362</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30323200</id>
	<title>I am so happy to see you modding losers go away.</title>
	<author>node808</author>
	<datestamp>1259939220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you want to mod your xbox, great.  But stay the hell off XBL so the REAL players can have an enjoyable fair match.  I am so tired of you cheating a**holes and I am so glad to see you get thrown out.  So how did that ban hammer feel?  I only wish I could be the guy swinging it....what an awesome job to have.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want to mod your xbox , great .
But stay the hell off XBL so the REAL players can have an enjoyable fair match .
I am so tired of you cheating a * * holes and I am so glad to see you get thrown out .
So how did that ban hammer feel ?
I only wish I could be the guy swinging it....what an awesome job to have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want to mod your xbox, great.
But stay the hell off XBL so the REAL players can have an enjoyable fair match.
I am so tired of you cheating a**holes and I am so glad to see you get thrown out.
So how did that ban hammer feel?
I only wish I could be the guy swinging it....what an awesome job to have.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30324342</id>
	<title>Re:I am so happy to see you modding losers go away</title>
	<author>mace9984</author>
	<datestamp>1259945340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you want to mod your xbox, great.  But stay the hell off XBL so the REAL players can have an enjoyable fair match.  I am so tired of you cheating a**holes and I am so glad to see you get thrown out.  So how did that ban hammer feel?  I only wish I could be the guy swinging it....what an awesome job to have.</p></div><p>+1 for parent, my thoughts exactly!  Even just 1 cheater in a game makes the entire game a loss for everyone.  I buy these games to compete against other people, not someones auto-aim bot.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want to mod your xbox , great .
But stay the hell off XBL so the REAL players can have an enjoyable fair match .
I am so tired of you cheating a * * holes and I am so glad to see you get thrown out .
So how did that ban hammer feel ?
I only wish I could be the guy swinging it....what an awesome job to have. + 1 for parent , my thoughts exactly !
Even just 1 cheater in a game makes the entire game a loss for everyone .
I buy these games to compete against other people , not someones auto-aim bot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want to mod your xbox, great.
But stay the hell off XBL so the REAL players can have an enjoyable fair match.
I am so tired of you cheating a**holes and I am so glad to see you get thrown out.
So how did that ban hammer feel?
I only wish I could be the guy swinging it....what an awesome job to have.+1 for parent, my thoughts exactly!
Even just 1 cheater in a game makes the entire game a loss for everyone.
I buy these games to compete against other people, not someones auto-aim bot.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30323200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30331998</id>
	<title>Re:It's a net loss</title>
	<author>NitroWolf</author>
	<datestamp>1259939760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>For everyone of you, there's 100 modders who were just using their modded xbox to play pirated games.</p><p>I don't care about pirates, or modders, but what REALLY got me about them was they were the only ones who could cheat while playing on Live. This made my experience playing CoD4 worse, because some jerk had a modded xbox and hacked game that let him use a pistol that could fire 10x faster than normal (among other cheats).</p><p>I paid for my Xbox, my Live service, and my games. I want a fair experience on Xbox Live, and if that means you can't play your modded xbox, I'm sorry, but too bad so sad. You knew what you were getting when you bought the damn thing.</p></div><p>Lord, I can never take people like you seriously, sadly.  It's people like you that muddy the whole issue we are dealing with here with your ill informed and completely false information you continually propagate.</p><p>There is no possible way a modded console allowed someone to cheat in your game.  A modded console only allows you to play copied games - the games on the disc must ABSOLUTELY be identical to the original or it won't run.  If you got owned it was because you suck, not because someone was playing with cheats.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>For everyone of you , there 's 100 modders who were just using their modded xbox to play pirated games.I do n't care about pirates , or modders , but what REALLY got me about them was they were the only ones who could cheat while playing on Live .
This made my experience playing CoD4 worse , because some jerk had a modded xbox and hacked game that let him use a pistol that could fire 10x faster than normal ( among other cheats ) .I paid for my Xbox , my Live service , and my games .
I want a fair experience on Xbox Live , and if that means you ca n't play your modded xbox , I 'm sorry , but too bad so sad .
You knew what you were getting when you bought the damn thing.Lord , I can never take people like you seriously , sadly .
It 's people like you that muddy the whole issue we are dealing with here with your ill informed and completely false information you continually propagate.There is no possible way a modded console allowed someone to cheat in your game .
A modded console only allows you to play copied games - the games on the disc must ABSOLUTELY be identical to the original or it wo n't run .
If you got owned it was because you suck , not because someone was playing with cheats .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For everyone of you, there's 100 modders who were just using their modded xbox to play pirated games.I don't care about pirates, or modders, but what REALLY got me about them was they were the only ones who could cheat while playing on Live.
This made my experience playing CoD4 worse, because some jerk had a modded xbox and hacked game that let him use a pistol that could fire 10x faster than normal (among other cheats).I paid for my Xbox, my Live service, and my games.
I want a fair experience on Xbox Live, and if that means you can't play your modded xbox, I'm sorry, but too bad so sad.
You knew what you were getting when you bought the damn thing.Lord, I can never take people like you seriously, sadly.
It's people like you that muddy the whole issue we are dealing with here with your ill informed and completely false information you continually propagate.There is no possible way a modded console allowed someone to cheat in your game.
A modded console only allows you to play copied games - the games on the disc must ABSOLUTELY be identical to the original or it won't run.
If you got owned it was because you suck, not because someone was playing with cheats.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30323126</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322328</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1259927880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, you've voluntarily decided to do business with Microsoft. Clearly since you're not willing to change your job that "never, ever" isn't strictly accurate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , you 've voluntarily decided to do business with Microsoft .
Clearly since you 're not willing to change your job that " never , ever " is n't strictly accurate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, you've voluntarily decided to do business with Microsoft.
Clearly since you're not willing to change your job that "never, ever" isn't strictly accurate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321386</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321318</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259867340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are conveniently ignoring the fact that typical service provider contracts can be changed at any time and in any way by the service provider.  Only one party has to abide by the contract.  That is no kind of contract at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are conveniently ignoring the fact that typical service provider contracts can be changed at any time and in any way by the service provider .
Only one party has to abide by the contract .
That is no kind of contract at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are conveniently ignoring the fact that typical service provider contracts can be changed at any time and in any way by the service provider.
Only one party has to abide by the contract.
That is no kind of contract at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321760</id>
	<title>Buy a second box</title>
	<author>Baby Duck</author>
	<datestamp>1259917560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you really, really, really care THAT DAMN MUCH about modding your XBox, you'd buy 2 -- one for online play on XBL, the other for souped-up media center purposes. Can't afford a second XBox? Then maybe modding and/or XBL isn't for you.</p><p>A modded XBox increases the probability the end user has a cheat enabled to give you an unfair advantage in an online competitive game. I applaud any service that wants to preserve purity in a competitive arena. It's just like every major competitive sport having regulations over the specifications of all equipment used in all games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you really , really , really care THAT DAMN MUCH about modding your XBox , you 'd buy 2 -- one for online play on XBL , the other for souped-up media center purposes .
Ca n't afford a second XBox ?
Then maybe modding and/or XBL is n't for you.A modded XBox increases the probability the end user has a cheat enabled to give you an unfair advantage in an online competitive game .
I applaud any service that wants to preserve purity in a competitive arena .
It 's just like every major competitive sport having regulations over the specifications of all equipment used in all games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you really, really, really care THAT DAMN MUCH about modding your XBox, you'd buy 2 -- one for online play on XBL, the other for souped-up media center purposes.
Can't afford a second XBox?
Then maybe modding and/or XBL isn't for you.A modded XBox increases the probability the end user has a cheat enabled to give you an unfair advantage in an online competitive game.
I applaud any service that wants to preserve purity in a competitive arena.
It's just like every major competitive sport having regulations over the specifications of all equipment used in all games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321896</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259920020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Shrink-wrap contracts are not enforceable. Ever. You can't read the contract in the box, BEFORE you buy the product. And contract law has only existed for about 1,200 years, not "millenia." I avoid shrink-wrap contracts whenever I can, simply because I'm not a lawyer, and could not understand every possible stipulation that MS or other corporate money machines could put in them (and nobody ever reads them in detail to begin with; did you take your Windows license to your lawyer before you installed it? Did you make your lawyer read the screen of your new Dell PC before you clicked "Accept"? Think not.) I certainly didn't pore over the paperwork with a fine tooth comb when I bought my (USED!) PS2 (no paperwork in the box!).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Shrink-wrap contracts are not enforceable .
Ever. You ca n't read the contract in the box , BEFORE you buy the product .
And contract law has only existed for about 1,200 years , not " millenia .
" I avoid shrink-wrap contracts whenever I can , simply because I 'm not a lawyer , and could not understand every possible stipulation that MS or other corporate money machines could put in them ( and nobody ever reads them in detail to begin with ; did you take your Windows license to your lawyer before you installed it ?
Did you make your lawyer read the screen of your new Dell PC before you clicked " Accept " ?
Think not .
) I certainly did n't pore over the paperwork with a fine tooth comb when I bought my ( USED !
) PS2 ( no paperwork in the box !
) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shrink-wrap contracts are not enforceable.
Ever. You can't read the contract in the box, BEFORE you buy the product.
And contract law has only existed for about 1,200 years, not "millenia.
" I avoid shrink-wrap contracts whenever I can, simply because I'm not a lawyer, and could not understand every possible stipulation that MS or other corporate money machines could put in them (and nobody ever reads them in detail to begin with; did you take your Windows license to your lawyer before you installed it?
Did you make your lawyer read the screen of your new Dell PC before you clicked "Accept"?
Think not.
) I certainly didn't pore over the paperwork with a fine tooth comb when I bought my (USED!
) PS2 (no paperwork in the box!
).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321442</id>
	<title>Oh, FFS.</title>
	<author>awyeah</author>
	<datestamp>1259869020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did I read that correctly?  "rely on them to get on with our everyday lives"?  I think my life would go on just fine if I never connected to Xbox live again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did I read that correctly ?
" rely on them to get on with our everyday lives " ?
I think my life would go on just fine if I never connected to Xbox live again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did I read that correctly?
"rely on them to get on with our everyday lives"?
I think my life would go on just fine if I never connected to Xbox live again.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30323970</id>
	<title>Re:I am so happy to see you modding losers go away</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259943540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>How are people with pirated games not "real" players not playing fair? Granted, they didn't pay for the game; but that really doesn't affect you in the minnimum seeing as those pirated games don't have built-in cheats and play by the exact same rules you play by.  Furthermore, they pay for XBox Live just like you do, just not for the games.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How are people with pirated games not " real " players not playing fair ?
Granted , they did n't pay for the game ; but that really does n't affect you in the minnimum seeing as those pirated games do n't have built-in cheats and play by the exact same rules you play by .
Furthermore , they pay for XBox Live just like you do , just not for the games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How are people with pirated games not "real" players not playing fair?
Granted, they didn't pay for the game; but that really doesn't affect you in the minnimum seeing as those pirated games don't have built-in cheats and play by the exact same rules you play by.
Furthermore, they pay for XBox Live just like you do, just not for the games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30323200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322242</id>
	<title>It's a net loss</title>
	<author>NitroWolf</author>
	<datestamp>1259926440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My console was banned for being modded.  The thing is, it was modded because the DVD drive died and I replaced it... the only way I could do this "legitimately" was to buy a whole new console, since MS claimed it was no longer under warranty.  I wasn't about to spend $250 or whatever it was at the time (this was a couple years ago) to buy a whole new console when I could buy a new drive online for less than $60.</p><p>So I had a modded console... I played exactly 2 games that entire time, Rock Band and Rock Band 2.  The original of Rock Band worked perfectly and when Rock Band 2 came out, I purchased it... well the original had trouble playing in the console, so I used a burned copy, which ironically played fine.  During that time, I purchased nearly 100 songs for RB and RB2 and maintained a Live Gold subscription.  My gamer profile confirms that I haven't played any other games than RB and RB2 since I replaced the drive.</p><p>So my console is banned.  I will cancel my Live Gold account ($50+ a year or something) and I will no longer be able to purchase songs for RB2 or future RB games that come out.  So by banning me, they've lost a continual revenue stream that has exceeded the purchase price of a console. Sure, they already have my money for the RB2 songs I bought, but they aren't able to get more, even if I wanted to pay them money.</p><p>What kind of stupid idea is this?  Unilaterally cut off your customers who pay you money regularly and prevent them from being able to pay you any more money.  Wow.  What a brilliant business move.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My console was banned for being modded .
The thing is , it was modded because the DVD drive died and I replaced it... the only way I could do this " legitimately " was to buy a whole new console , since MS claimed it was no longer under warranty .
I was n't about to spend $ 250 or whatever it was at the time ( this was a couple years ago ) to buy a whole new console when I could buy a new drive online for less than $ 60.So I had a modded console... I played exactly 2 games that entire time , Rock Band and Rock Band 2 .
The original of Rock Band worked perfectly and when Rock Band 2 came out , I purchased it... well the original had trouble playing in the console , so I used a burned copy , which ironically played fine .
During that time , I purchased nearly 100 songs for RB and RB2 and maintained a Live Gold subscription .
My gamer profile confirms that I have n't played any other games than RB and RB2 since I replaced the drive.So my console is banned .
I will cancel my Live Gold account ( $ 50 + a year or something ) and I will no longer be able to purchase songs for RB2 or future RB games that come out .
So by banning me , they 've lost a continual revenue stream that has exceeded the purchase price of a console .
Sure , they already have my money for the RB2 songs I bought , but they are n't able to get more , even if I wanted to pay them money.What kind of stupid idea is this ?
Unilaterally cut off your customers who pay you money regularly and prevent them from being able to pay you any more money .
Wow. What a brilliant business move .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>My console was banned for being modded.
The thing is, it was modded because the DVD drive died and I replaced it... the only way I could do this "legitimately" was to buy a whole new console, since MS claimed it was no longer under warranty.
I wasn't about to spend $250 or whatever it was at the time (this was a couple years ago) to buy a whole new console when I could buy a new drive online for less than $60.So I had a modded console... I played exactly 2 games that entire time, Rock Band and Rock Band 2.
The original of Rock Band worked perfectly and when Rock Band 2 came out, I purchased it... well the original had trouble playing in the console, so I used a burned copy, which ironically played fine.
During that time, I purchased nearly 100 songs for RB and RB2 and maintained a Live Gold subscription.
My gamer profile confirms that I haven't played any other games than RB and RB2 since I replaced the drive.So my console is banned.
I will cancel my Live Gold account ($50+ a year or something) and I will no longer be able to purchase songs for RB2 or future RB games that come out.
So by banning me, they've lost a continual revenue stream that has exceeded the purchase price of a console.
Sure, they already have my money for the RB2 songs I bought, but they aren't able to get more, even if I wanted to pay them money.What kind of stupid idea is this?
Unilaterally cut off your customers who pay you money regularly and prevent them from being able to pay you any more money.
Wow.  What a brilliant business move.
 </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322500</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259931420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The kind of contract people signed in their own free will.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The kind of contract people signed in their own free will .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The kind of contract people signed in their own free will.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321386</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322654</id>
	<title>Re:Well..</title>
	<author>LordKronos</author>
	<datestamp>1259934360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, it's in there somewhere. I don't remember how or where, but I do remember experimenting when I first got my xbox 360, and there is a media center setup screen where it asks you to input an auth code from WMC, and I remember going to my desktop, starting up WMC and authorizing the device and getting the code. I never used it beyond that, so I can't tell you exactly what it does, but it definitely has some sort of WMC interaction.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , it 's in there somewhere .
I do n't remember how or where , but I do remember experimenting when I first got my xbox 360 , and there is a media center setup screen where it asks you to input an auth code from WMC , and I remember going to my desktop , starting up WMC and authorizing the device and getting the code .
I never used it beyond that , so I ca n't tell you exactly what it does , but it definitely has some sort of WMC interaction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, it's in there somewhere.
I don't remember how or where, but I do remember experimenting when I first got my xbox 360, and there is a media center setup screen where it asks you to input an auth code from WMC, and I remember going to my desktop, starting up WMC and authorizing the device and getting the code.
I never used it beyond that, so I can't tell you exactly what it does, but it definitely has some sort of WMC interaction.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322006</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30328510</id>
	<title>Re:Buy a second box</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259919480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is false. Modding the dvd-rom to trick it into playing off burnt discs does not allow the console to play modified code. You can read the HDD or memory cards if you are looking to modify your saves or other game data.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is false .
Modding the dvd-rom to trick it into playing off burnt discs does not allow the console to play modified code .
You can read the HDD or memory cards if you are looking to modify your saves or other game data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is false.
Modding the dvd-rom to trick it into playing off burnt discs does not allow the console to play modified code.
You can read the HDD or memory cards if you are looking to modify your saves or other game data.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30333278</id>
	<title>Re:Buy a second box</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260044520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's bullshit<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,we can't edit the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.xex files (360 version of the exe) because theyre signed, the hack doesnt allow you to cheat in games at all USUALLY (PGR2 was a notable exception because the developers didn't sign the data files) so basically it doesn't give you ANY edge except allowing you to run free games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's bullshit ,we ca n't edit the .xex files ( 360 version of the exe ) because theyre signed , the hack doesnt allow you to cheat in games at all USUALLY ( PGR2 was a notable exception because the developers did n't sign the data files ) so basically it does n't give you ANY edge except allowing you to run free games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's bullshit ,we can't edit the .xex files (360 version of the exe) because theyre signed, the hack doesnt allow you to cheat in games at all USUALLY (PGR2 was a notable exception because the developers didn't sign the data files) so basically it doesn't give you ANY edge except allowing you to run free games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322668</id>
	<title>Re:Well..</title>
	<author>LordKronos</author>
	<datestamp>1259934660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not that I'm condoning it, but I think the reasoning there is DRM and maintaining a controlled path to the display. If you hacked the 360, you can compromise that path. Not sure that it makes sense, because I'd think anything you could do to the 360 to compromise it could just be done to the PC running WMC to begin with, but maybe that's not so. Maybe the 360 has some really weak ass DRM implementation that they are afraid you'll exploit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not that I 'm condoning it , but I think the reasoning there is DRM and maintaining a controlled path to the display .
If you hacked the 360 , you can compromise that path .
Not sure that it makes sense , because I 'd think anything you could do to the 360 to compromise it could just be done to the PC running WMC to begin with , but maybe that 's not so .
Maybe the 360 has some really weak ass DRM implementation that they are afraid you 'll exploit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not that I'm condoning it, but I think the reasoning there is DRM and maintaining a controlled path to the display.
If you hacked the 360, you can compromise that path.
Not sure that it makes sense, because I'd think anything you could do to the 360 to compromise it could just be done to the PC running WMC to begin with, but maybe that's not so.
Maybe the 360 has some really weak ass DRM implementation that they are afraid you'll exploit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321294</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321244</id>
	<title>Re:Well..</title>
	<author>mark-t</author>
	<datestamp>1259866320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
"What also angers me is how it would be easily within the law to ban for almost ANY reason"
</p><p>
That's always been true, whether they explicitly say so or not.  They seem to exercise this prerogative rarely enough, however, that a vast majority of people don't care just how much control Microsoft wields in this matter, or at least don't care enough to stop using that system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" What also angers me is how it would be easily within the law to ban for almost ANY reason " That 's always been true , whether they explicitly say so or not .
They seem to exercise this prerogative rarely enough , however , that a vast majority of people do n't care just how much control Microsoft wields in this matter , or at least do n't care enough to stop using that system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
"What also angers me is how it would be easily within the law to ban for almost ANY reason"

That's always been true, whether they explicitly say so or not.
They seem to exercise this prerogative rarely enough, however, that a vast majority of people don't care just how much control Microsoft wields in this matter, or at least don't care enough to stop using that system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321128</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321604</id>
	<title>wat?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259957820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>if you are going to step foot in my house you will not shit on my kitchen floor<br>if you do, you will be made to leave.<br>how is this any different?</p><p>if you don't like the rules then don't agree to them. if you agree to them and break them then, tough for you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if you are going to step foot in my house you will not shit on my kitchen floorif you do , you will be made to leave.how is this any different ? if you do n't like the rules then do n't agree to them .
if you agree to them and break them then , tough for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if you are going to step foot in my house you will not shit on my kitchen floorif you do, you will be made to leave.how is this any different?if you don't like the rules then don't agree to them.
if you agree to them and break them then, tough for you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30323352</id>
	<title>on owning a banned console</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259940120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you know what? I have a modded console that got banned.  I have absolutely NO problem with microsoft banning consoles from xbox live.  I DO have a problem with them manipulating our save games and destroying our data.  If I were going in for a lawsuit I'd focus on the destruction of user data, which has been said in the past is illegal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you know what ?
I have a modded console that got banned .
I have absolutely NO problem with microsoft banning consoles from xbox live .
I DO have a problem with them manipulating our save games and destroying our data .
If I were going in for a lawsuit I 'd focus on the destruction of user data , which has been said in the past is illegal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you know what?
I have a modded console that got banned.
I have absolutely NO problem with microsoft banning consoles from xbox live.
I DO have a problem with them manipulating our save games and destroying our data.
If I were going in for a lawsuit I'd focus on the destruction of user data, which has been said in the past is illegal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30323506</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>Interoperable</author>
	<datestamp>1259941080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What Microsoft is saying, is that if a bug in Windows causes you to lose all your data they won't be held financially accountable for it. If that wasn't there, every time someone lost work due to a BSOD Microsoft would have to pay up. The fact is, there is no way they would ever agree to terms like that.</p><p>I don't think it's unreasonable for Microsoft to refuse to cover my data loss so I enter into the contract with them. If you don't like the terms, don't accept the contract; it's as simple as that. You'll have to install an operating system that will enter into a contract with you in which they agree to accept liability for that sort of thing. Until you can find that OS, save often.</p><p>Now, don't get me wrong, I hate EULAs because they're disclosed after the purchase is made. I think that the terms should be required to be disclosed, in simplified but accurate form, on the box prior to purchase, preferably requiring an actual signature, not a click-through. However, once you agree to them by purchasing and installing the software, you're bound by them. If you think they're unreasonable, you must uninstall the software and request a refund because disliking the terms gives you absolutely no moral or legal high ground if you continue to run the software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What Microsoft is saying , is that if a bug in Windows causes you to lose all your data they wo n't be held financially accountable for it .
If that was n't there , every time someone lost work due to a BSOD Microsoft would have to pay up .
The fact is , there is no way they would ever agree to terms like that.I do n't think it 's unreasonable for Microsoft to refuse to cover my data loss so I enter into the contract with them .
If you do n't like the terms , do n't accept the contract ; it 's as simple as that .
You 'll have to install an operating system that will enter into a contract with you in which they agree to accept liability for that sort of thing .
Until you can find that OS , save often.Now , do n't get me wrong , I hate EULAs because they 're disclosed after the purchase is made .
I think that the terms should be required to be disclosed , in simplified but accurate form , on the box prior to purchase , preferably requiring an actual signature , not a click-through .
However , once you agree to them by purchasing and installing the software , you 're bound by them .
If you think they 're unreasonable , you must uninstall the software and request a refund because disliking the terms gives you absolutely no moral or legal high ground if you continue to run the software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What Microsoft is saying, is that if a bug in Windows causes you to lose all your data they won't be held financially accountable for it.
If that wasn't there, every time someone lost work due to a BSOD Microsoft would have to pay up.
The fact is, there is no way they would ever agree to terms like that.I don't think it's unreasonable for Microsoft to refuse to cover my data loss so I enter into the contract with them.
If you don't like the terms, don't accept the contract; it's as simple as that.
You'll have to install an operating system that will enter into a contract with you in which they agree to accept liability for that sort of thing.
Until you can find that OS, save often.Now, don't get me wrong, I hate EULAs because they're disclosed after the purchase is made.
I think that the terms should be required to be disclosed, in simplified but accurate form, on the box prior to purchase, preferably requiring an actual signature, not a click-through.
However, once you agree to them by purchasing and installing the software, you're bound by them.
If you think they're unreasonable, you must uninstall the software and request a refund because disliking the terms gives you absolutely no moral or legal high ground if you continue to run the software.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321386</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30325772</id>
	<title>Love to say this to you...</title>
	<author>Steeltoe</author>
	<datestamp>1259951340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Welcome to the world of DRM.</p><p>This IS what you get. You get to pay money AND be shafted for breaking TOS, even if you had reasonable reason to do so.. Reason doesn't ring with big corporations, only money and more money.</p><p>We've been saying this for far too long (10+ years now?), so it's not like you should act surprised or anything.</p><p>Some more functions on you XBox has also been crippled. However, there will probaby be some fixes for that in 1-6 months or so..</p><p>This is why I never left the PC platform and turned off Windows Update, although like you, haven't been gaming too much the last couple of years..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Welcome to the world of DRM.This IS what you get .
You get to pay money AND be shafted for breaking TOS , even if you had reasonable reason to do so.. Reason does n't ring with big corporations , only money and more money.We 've been saying this for far too long ( 10 + years now ?
) , so it 's not like you should act surprised or anything.Some more functions on you XBox has also been crippled .
However , there will probaby be some fixes for that in 1-6 months or so..This is why I never left the PC platform and turned off Windows Update , although like you , have n't been gaming too much the last couple of years. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Welcome to the world of DRM.This IS what you get.
You get to pay money AND be shafted for breaking TOS, even if you had reasonable reason to do so.. Reason doesn't ring with big corporations, only money and more money.We've been saying this for far too long (10+ years now?
), so it's not like you should act surprised or anything.Some more functions on you XBox has also been crippled.
However, there will probaby be some fixes for that in 1-6 months or so..This is why I never left the PC platform and turned off Windows Update, although like you, haven't been gaming too much the last couple of years..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321388</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>bwcbwc</author>
	<datestamp>1259868540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>EFF doesn't have a problem with contracts, they're just pointing out a few facts: a) courts can void contract terms for various reasons. Witness the Early termination fees on wireless phone contracts in California. b) The EFF isn't necessarily saying the contracts aren't enforceable. They're saying no one's gone to court to see if they're enforceable. c) The EFF is saying that consumers need to pay more attention to this crap before they get raked over the coals the way the XBox modders did.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>EFF does n't have a problem with contracts , they 're just pointing out a few facts : a ) courts can void contract terms for various reasons .
Witness the Early termination fees on wireless phone contracts in California .
b ) The EFF is n't necessarily saying the contracts are n't enforceable .
They 're saying no one 's gone to court to see if they 're enforceable .
c ) The EFF is saying that consumers need to pay more attention to this crap before they get raked over the coals the way the XBox modders did .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>EFF doesn't have a problem with contracts, they're just pointing out a few facts: a) courts can void contract terms for various reasons.
Witness the Early termination fees on wireless phone contracts in California.
b) The EFF isn't necessarily saying the contracts aren't enforceable.
They're saying no one's gone to court to see if they're enforceable.
c) The EFF is saying that consumers need to pay more attention to this crap before they get raked over the coals the way the XBox modders did.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322228</id>
	<title>FIRsbT POST</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259926020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">by fuNdamental</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>by fuNdamental [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>by fuNdamental [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30365142</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>VeNoM0619</author>
	<datestamp>1260287340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The entire point of contract law is to avoid lawsuits, specifically because there is so little wiggle room if both parties agree to the contract.</p></div><p>The TOS is a constantly changing contract however, and the "little wiggle room" only applies to the person who is using the service. While the person changing the TOS has a near infinite amount of wiggle room. Oh, and whenever it changes, they don't even need to notify you.<br> <br>
A TOS should not even be considered a contract.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The entire point of contract law is to avoid lawsuits , specifically because there is so little wiggle room if both parties agree to the contract.The TOS is a constantly changing contract however , and the " little wiggle room " only applies to the person who is using the service .
While the person changing the TOS has a near infinite amount of wiggle room .
Oh , and whenever it changes , they do n't even need to notify you .
A TOS should not even be considered a contract .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The entire point of contract law is to avoid lawsuits, specifically because there is so little wiggle room if both parties agree to the contract.The TOS is a constantly changing contract however, and the "little wiggle room" only applies to the person who is using the service.
While the person changing the TOS has a near infinite amount of wiggle room.
Oh, and whenever it changes, they don't even need to notify you.
A TOS should not even be considered a contract.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30373012</id>
	<title>Re:It is a private network</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1260282000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You need to actually read the article. How ever you can rant about something that isn't the EFFs point and continue to look like a jackass.</p><p>Completely ignoring the fact that the ban broke offline play as well. Also ignoring the fact that there are rules you need to play by even if you own the network.</p><p>Also ignoring the fact that my tax dollars is what made it possible for MS to have online play.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You need to actually read the article .
How ever you can rant about something that is n't the EFFs point and continue to look like a jackass.Completely ignoring the fact that the ban broke offline play as well .
Also ignoring the fact that there are rules you need to play by even if you own the network.Also ignoring the fact that my tax dollars is what made it possible for MS to have online play .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You need to actually read the article.
How ever you can rant about something that isn't the EFFs point and continue to look like a jackass.Completely ignoring the fact that the ban broke offline play as well.
Also ignoring the fact that there are rules you need to play by even if you own the network.Also ignoring the fact that my tax dollars is what made it possible for MS to have online play.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322634</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30323462</id>
	<title>Re:Just saw something interesting with Borderlands</title>
	<author>Yosho</author>
	<datestamp>1259940840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But the upgrade to put a legit copy on a new system.  But apparently<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... this upgrade is only properly licensed if I put it on the computer that had the OEM version of XP on it.</p></div><p>Well, your first mistake was buying the "upgrade" version and thinking that was the appropriate version to do a fresh install on a new system.  What did you think the purpose of the non-upgrade version was?</p><p>Even at that, though, Microsoft's upgrade terms are incredibly lenient.  The only requirement you have to meet when installing the upgrade version of Windows 7 is that the computer you're on must have a partition on some hard disk in it that has a previous version of Windows on it.  So if you plugged your old XP drive into the new computer, Windows 7 would install just fine on the new drive, even if the old drive isn't even bootable.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But the upgrade to put a legit copy on a new system .
But apparently ... this upgrade is only properly licensed if I put it on the computer that had the OEM version of XP on it.Well , your first mistake was buying the " upgrade " version and thinking that was the appropriate version to do a fresh install on a new system .
What did you think the purpose of the non-upgrade version was ? Even at that , though , Microsoft 's upgrade terms are incredibly lenient .
The only requirement you have to meet when installing the upgrade version of Windows 7 is that the computer you 're on must have a partition on some hard disk in it that has a previous version of Windows on it .
So if you plugged your old XP drive into the new computer , Windows 7 would install just fine on the new drive , even if the old drive is n't even bootable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But the upgrade to put a legit copy on a new system.
But apparently ... this upgrade is only properly licensed if I put it on the computer that had the OEM version of XP on it.Well, your first mistake was buying the "upgrade" version and thinking that was the appropriate version to do a fresh install on a new system.
What did you think the purpose of the non-upgrade version was?Even at that, though, Microsoft's upgrade terms are incredibly lenient.
The only requirement you have to meet when installing the upgrade version of Windows 7 is that the computer you're on must have a partition on some hard disk in it that has a previous version of Windows on it.
So if you plugged your old XP drive into the new computer, Windows 7 would install just fine on the new drive, even if the old drive isn't even bootable.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321362</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322272</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>SharpFang</author>
	<datestamp>1259926800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I preferred the websites that present TOS in editable textarea. Textarea implies invitation to edit = negotiation.</p><p>I tend to edit these to my needs and save myself a copy. Of course by clicking "I Agree" I -am- sending these back to the originating server (if they don't get them, it's their negligence).<br>Since they accept the edited copy, I can safely assume they agreed to changes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I preferred the websites that present TOS in editable textarea .
Textarea implies invitation to edit = negotiation.I tend to edit these to my needs and save myself a copy .
Of course by clicking " I Agree " I -am- sending these back to the originating server ( if they do n't get them , it 's their negligence ) .Since they accept the edited copy , I can safely assume they agreed to changes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I preferred the websites that present TOS in editable textarea.
Textarea implies invitation to edit = negotiation.I tend to edit these to my needs and save myself a copy.
Of course by clicking "I Agree" I -am- sending these back to the originating server (if they don't get them, it's their negligence).Since they accept the edited copy, I can safely assume they agreed to changes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321386</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321372</id>
	<title>Online services? That's all?</title>
	<author>bwcbwc</author>
	<datestamp>1259868240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While they're at it, they should get with Consumers' Union and go after the wireless providers, credit card lenders and all those other services where the terms of service are basically "we've got the gold, we make the rules". Onerous contract terms and gullible consumers that think they have to have these services are the root of all evil in our service/consumer based economy (speaking for the US).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While they 're at it , they should get with Consumers ' Union and go after the wireless providers , credit card lenders and all those other services where the terms of service are basically " we 've got the gold , we make the rules " .
Onerous contract terms and gullible consumers that think they have to have these services are the root of all evil in our service/consumer based economy ( speaking for the US ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While they're at it, they should get with Consumers' Union and go after the wireless providers, credit card lenders and all those other services where the terms of service are basically "we've got the gold, we make the rules".
Onerous contract terms and gullible consumers that think they have to have these services are the root of all evil in our service/consumer based economy (speaking for the US).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30323672</id>
	<title>Banned XBox's no longer correctly.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259941920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have no issues with Microsoft banning modded XBox's from their network.  However, banned Xbox's no longer function as media extenders.  This hampers the XBox's ability to work when NOT connected to their network and this is wrong.</p><p>I do not own a single XBox, but when I heard of this ban the 1st thing that popped into my head was, "Cheap media extenders", but this is not the case.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have no issues with Microsoft banning modded XBox 's from their network .
However , banned Xbox 's no longer function as media extenders .
This hampers the XBox 's ability to work when NOT connected to their network and this is wrong.I do not own a single XBox , but when I heard of this ban the 1st thing that popped into my head was , " Cheap media extenders " , but this is not the case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have no issues with Microsoft banning modded XBox's from their network.
However, banned Xbox's no longer function as media extenders.
This hampers the XBox's ability to work when NOT connected to their network and this is wrong.I do not own a single XBox, but when I heard of this ban the 1st thing that popped into my head was, "Cheap media extenders", but this is not the case.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321386</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>DNS-and-BIND</author>
	<datestamp>1259868540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>In no event shall Microsoft be liable for any damages whatsoever, even in the event of fault (including negligence).<br>
-- Windows XP Professional license agreement</i></p><p>What kind of contract is this?  And the same contract allows Microsoft to <b>change the terms of the contract</b> at any time, without notifying me?  I would never agree to such a thing.  But, Windows is required in order to work.  So I say out loud, "I disagree with these terms" and click the button to continue.  Microsoft, having had a chance to respond and remained silent, can only be assumed to have agreed with my deal, since it clearly is continuing with the software installation.  Obviously the whole thing was just a bluff to get me to agree to some ridiculously one-sided terms.</p><p>Terms like these I would never, ever accept in any deal, business or otherwise.  Including negligence!  Imagine a lease or even a parking stub with such language on it.  It's basically admitting that they're negligent before the deal even starts...who on Earth would do business voluntarily with a party who says up front that you can expect negligence on their part?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In no event shall Microsoft be liable for any damages whatsoever , even in the event of fault ( including negligence ) .
-- Windows XP Professional license agreementWhat kind of contract is this ?
And the same contract allows Microsoft to change the terms of the contract at any time , without notifying me ?
I would never agree to such a thing .
But , Windows is required in order to work .
So I say out loud , " I disagree with these terms " and click the button to continue .
Microsoft , having had a chance to respond and remained silent , can only be assumed to have agreed with my deal , since it clearly is continuing with the software installation .
Obviously the whole thing was just a bluff to get me to agree to some ridiculously one-sided terms.Terms like these I would never , ever accept in any deal , business or otherwise .
Including negligence !
Imagine a lease or even a parking stub with such language on it .
It 's basically admitting that they 're negligent before the deal even starts...who on Earth would do business voluntarily with a party who says up front that you can expect negligence on their part ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In no event shall Microsoft be liable for any damages whatsoever, even in the event of fault (including negligence).
-- Windows XP Professional license agreementWhat kind of contract is this?
And the same contract allows Microsoft to change the terms of the contract at any time, without notifying me?
I would never agree to such a thing.
But, Windows is required in order to work.
So I say out loud, "I disagree with these terms" and click the button to continue.
Microsoft, having had a chance to respond and remained silent, can only be assumed to have agreed with my deal, since it clearly is continuing with the software installation.
Obviously the whole thing was just a bluff to get me to agree to some ridiculously one-sided terms.Terms like these I would never, ever accept in any deal, business or otherwise.
Including negligence!
Imagine a lease or even a parking stub with such language on it.
It's basically admitting that they're negligent before the deal even starts...who on Earth would do business voluntarily with a party who says up front that you can expect negligence on their part?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30324624</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259946540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you pay attention, you will notice the button you click doesn't say "continue"... it says "I agree".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you pay attention , you will notice the button you click does n't say " continue " ... it says " I agree " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you pay attention, you will notice the button you click doesn't say "continue"... it says "I agree".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321386</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321284</id>
	<title>NE4!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259866860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">Or mislead the contact to see if that they can hold about bylaws aarogance was year contract. similarly grisly you have a play head spinning may well remain numbers continue Out of bed in the in the sun. In the noises out of the GNAA and support and executes a [nero-online.org] gains market share another special - Netcraft has are the important Watershed essay, Significantly NOTORIOUS OPENBSD be a lot slower hear you. Also, if BSDI is also dead, lube or we sell parts of you are to keep up as fact there won't All servers. Coming supplies to private [gay-sex-access.com]? would you like to brilliant plan can really ask of sure that I've Mr. Raymond's</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or mislead the contact to see if that they can hold about bylaws aarogance was year contract .
similarly grisly you have a play head spinning may well remain numbers continue Out of bed in the in the sun .
In the noises out of the GNAA and support and executes a [ nero-online.org ] gains market share another special - Netcraft has are the important Watershed essay , Significantly NOTORIOUS OPENBSD be a lot slower hear you .
Also , if BSDI is also dead , lube or we sell parts of you are to keep up as fact there wo n't All servers .
Coming supplies to private [ gay-sex-access.com ] ?
would you like to brilliant plan can really ask of sure that I 've Mr. Raymond 's [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or mislead the contact to see if that they can hold about bylaws aarogance was year contract.
similarly grisly you have a play head spinning may well remain numbers continue Out of bed in the in the sun.
In the noises out of the GNAA and support and executes a [nero-online.org] gains market share another special - Netcraft has are the important Watershed essay, Significantly NOTORIOUS OPENBSD be a lot slower hear you.
Also, if BSDI is also dead, lube or we sell parts of you are to keep up as fact there won't All servers.
Coming supplies to private [gay-sex-access.com]?
would you like to brilliant plan can really ask of sure that I've Mr. Raymond's [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321362</id>
	<title>Just saw something interesting with Borderlands...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259868180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I installed it, it popped up an EULA that stated that the company reserved the right to modify the agreement from time to time (changes to be posted to their website) and that my continued use of the software 30 days after these changes constitutes my acceptance of said changes.</p><p>I should mention, this is a retail boxed version of a game that doesn't require any online service to run.</p><p>Then there's Windows 7.  Bought the upgrade to put a legit copy on a new system.  But apparently, and this was stated nowhere online at the time of purchase (including Microsoft's site, and I checked thoroughly), this upgrade is only properly licensed if I put it on the computer that had the OEM version of XP on it.  Impossible, as its motherboard died, and even the OEM XP had no mention on its packaging or on the website that it would only be valid on the first system it was installed on (as indicated by the motherboard in said computer, even if the motherboard needs replacement).</p><p>You really are treated worse than a pirate when you pay for your software.  You can't even properly lend or swap games with friends anymore, even on consoles like the Xbox 360 because of DLC.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I installed it , it popped up an EULA that stated that the company reserved the right to modify the agreement from time to time ( changes to be posted to their website ) and that my continued use of the software 30 days after these changes constitutes my acceptance of said changes.I should mention , this is a retail boxed version of a game that does n't require any online service to run.Then there 's Windows 7 .
Bought the upgrade to put a legit copy on a new system .
But apparently , and this was stated nowhere online at the time of purchase ( including Microsoft 's site , and I checked thoroughly ) , this upgrade is only properly licensed if I put it on the computer that had the OEM version of XP on it .
Impossible , as its motherboard died , and even the OEM XP had no mention on its packaging or on the website that it would only be valid on the first system it was installed on ( as indicated by the motherboard in said computer , even if the motherboard needs replacement ) .You really are treated worse than a pirate when you pay for your software .
You ca n't even properly lend or swap games with friends anymore , even on consoles like the Xbox 360 because of DLC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I installed it, it popped up an EULA that stated that the company reserved the right to modify the agreement from time to time (changes to be posted to their website) and that my continued use of the software 30 days after these changes constitutes my acceptance of said changes.I should mention, this is a retail boxed version of a game that doesn't require any online service to run.Then there's Windows 7.
Bought the upgrade to put a legit copy on a new system.
But apparently, and this was stated nowhere online at the time of purchase (including Microsoft's site, and I checked thoroughly), this upgrade is only properly licensed if I put it on the computer that had the OEM version of XP on it.
Impossible, as its motherboard died, and even the OEM XP had no mention on its packaging or on the website that it would only be valid on the first system it was installed on (as indicated by the motherboard in said computer, even if the motherboard needs replacement).You really are treated worse than a pirate when you pay for your software.
You can't even properly lend or swap games with friends anymore, even on consoles like the Xbox 360 because of DLC.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322006</id>
	<title>Re:Well..</title>
	<author>Richard\_at\_work</author>
	<datestamp>1259921520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have an Xbox 360 thats never been connected to Live, and I can't use it as a Windows Media Center.  They haven't removed any functionality from a banned console...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have an Xbox 360 thats never been connected to Live , and I ca n't use it as a Windows Media Center .
They have n't removed any functionality from a banned console.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have an Xbox 360 thats never been connected to Live, and I can't use it as a Windows Media Center.
They haven't removed any functionality from a banned console...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321294</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322566</id>
	<title>This people...</title>
	<author>neural.disruption</author>
	<datestamp>1259932680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So whats next? Being anger with PunkB*ster for not letting you cheat?
<br> <br>
Modded consoles are used for:<br>
Play pirated games(you don't need a chip to backup anything so sftu)<br>
Cheat on online games<br>
A few other not illegal or "immoral" activities.<br>
<br>
So if you want more functionality(last of the above uses) on your XBox why not start a petition or something so M$ knows what you want?(I'm not saying they'll even consider it but at least you tried)
Otherwise you're either engaging in illegal activities(the law is the law until its changed) that M$ can't tolerate because its bad for business and they risk themselves by allowing it, or you're an useless looser that likes to ruin everyone else experience on online games just because you can't figure out how to play tic tac toe.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So whats next ?
Being anger with PunkB * ster for not letting you cheat ?
Modded consoles are used for : Play pirated games ( you do n't need a chip to backup anything so sftu ) Cheat on online games A few other not illegal or " immoral " activities .
So if you want more functionality ( last of the above uses ) on your XBox why not start a petition or something so M $ knows what you want ?
( I 'm not saying they 'll even consider it but at least you tried ) Otherwise you 're either engaging in illegal activities ( the law is the law until its changed ) that M $ ca n't tolerate because its bad for business and they risk themselves by allowing it , or you 're an useless looser that likes to ruin everyone else experience on online games just because you ca n't figure out how to play tic tac toe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So whats next?
Being anger with PunkB*ster for not letting you cheat?
Modded consoles are used for:
Play pirated games(you don't need a chip to backup anything so sftu)
Cheat on online games
A few other not illegal or "immoral" activities.
So if you want more functionality(last of the above uses) on your XBox why not start a petition or something so M$ knows what you want?
(I'm not saying they'll even consider it but at least you tried)
Otherwise you're either engaging in illegal activities(the law is the law until its changed) that M$ can't tolerate because its bad for business and they risk themselves by allowing it, or you're an useless looser that likes to ruin everyone else experience on online games just because you can't figure out how to play tic tac toe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30325112</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1259948580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I would never agree to such a thing. But, Windows is required in order to work.</p></div><p>I've been in that situation. Where Windows is required, I've requested that my employer provide me with a fully configured PC/laptop to their specifications. If the damned thing prompts me for any sort of agreement, I'd just bring it back to the IT department and tell them, "Its broke. Give me another one."
</p><p>I don't think an employer can make an employee enter into a contract with a third party as a condition of their employment. The coercive nature of  such an arrangement would probably be basis for having the contract thrown out. So I, as a frequent party presenting such contracts to potential customers, avoid entering into them with individuals if I believe that my product/service is being required by an employer.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would never agree to such a thing .
But , Windows is required in order to work.I 've been in that situation .
Where Windows is required , I 've requested that my employer provide me with a fully configured PC/laptop to their specifications .
If the damned thing prompts me for any sort of agreement , I 'd just bring it back to the IT department and tell them , " Its broke .
Give me another one .
" I do n't think an employer can make an employee enter into a contract with a third party as a condition of their employment .
The coercive nature of such an arrangement would probably be basis for having the contract thrown out .
So I , as a frequent party presenting such contracts to potential customers , avoid entering into them with individuals if I believe that my product/service is being required by an employer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would never agree to such a thing.
But, Windows is required in order to work.I've been in that situation.
Where Windows is required, I've requested that my employer provide me with a fully configured PC/laptop to their specifications.
If the damned thing prompts me for any sort of agreement, I'd just bring it back to the IT department and tell them, "Its broke.
Give me another one.
"
I don't think an employer can make an employee enter into a contract with a third party as a condition of their employment.
The coercive nature of  such an arrangement would probably be basis for having the contract thrown out.
So I, as a frequent party presenting such contracts to potential customers, avoid entering into them with individuals if I believe that my product/service is being required by an employer.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321386</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321114</id>
	<title>Growth area for lawyers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259864580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Any place someone feels (correctly or incorrectly) they've been treated wrongly, it is a place for lawyers to grow and make money.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Any place someone feels ( correctly or incorrectly ) they 've been treated wrongly , it is a place for lawyers to grow and make money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any place someone feels (correctly or incorrectly) they've been treated wrongly, it is a place for lawyers to grow and make money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30324132</id>
	<title>Re:Buy a second box</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259944320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A modded xbox has nothing to do with game cheats. The only thing modified is the firmware for the dvd drive that the xbox uses. I'm not sure of any game cheats that have come from changing the firmware in your dvd drive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A modded xbox has nothing to do with game cheats .
The only thing modified is the firmware for the dvd drive that the xbox uses .
I 'm not sure of any game cheats that have come from changing the firmware in your dvd drive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A modded xbox has nothing to do with game cheats.
The only thing modified is the firmware for the dvd drive that the xbox uses.
I'm not sure of any game cheats that have come from changing the firmware in your dvd drive.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322322</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259927760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>So I say out loud, "I disagree with these terms" and click the button to continue. Microsoft, having had a chance to respond and remained silent, can only be assumed to have agreed with my deal, since it clearly is continuing with the software installation.</i> <br>
<br>
Are you honestly dim enough to believe that an "agreement" like that would hold up in a court of law? If you don't agree with the terms, you don't click the "I agree" button. Simple as that. Now, if you want to take your employer to court for attempting to make you agree to terms with which you don't agree, that's another matter entirely, and one where you may actually have some recourse. But arguing that "an inanimate object had an opportunity to respond but didn't" is just plain daft.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So I say out loud , " I disagree with these terms " and click the button to continue .
Microsoft , having had a chance to respond and remained silent , can only be assumed to have agreed with my deal , since it clearly is continuing with the software installation .
Are you honestly dim enough to believe that an " agreement " like that would hold up in a court of law ?
If you do n't agree with the terms , you do n't click the " I agree " button .
Simple as that .
Now , if you want to take your employer to court for attempting to make you agree to terms with which you do n't agree , that 's another matter entirely , and one where you may actually have some recourse .
But arguing that " an inanimate object had an opportunity to respond but did n't " is just plain daft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So I say out loud, "I disagree with these terms" and click the button to continue.
Microsoft, having had a chance to respond and remained silent, can only be assumed to have agreed with my deal, since it clearly is continuing with the software installation.
Are you honestly dim enough to believe that an "agreement" like that would hold up in a court of law?
If you don't agree with the terms, you don't click the "I agree" button.
Simple as that.
Now, if you want to take your employer to court for attempting to make you agree to terms with which you don't agree, that's another matter entirely, and one where you may actually have some recourse.
But arguing that "an inanimate object had an opportunity to respond but didn't" is just plain daft.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321386</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321128</id>
	<title>Well..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259864760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Microsoft's network, Microsoft's rules.  They're 100\% in the right for banning modded consoles.  Basically you can play your pirated games or you can play on Live, but not both with the same console.  Now what angers me is how they'll send out replacement consoles for warranty repairs that are already banned from Live, and tell the recipient that they must have a modded console and refuse them any recourse.  What also angers me is how it would be easily within the law to ban for almost ANY reason, leaving the user with little to no recourse.</p><p>I applaud Microsoft's banning of modded consoles, but condemn Terms of Service in general because they're 99.999\% in the favor of the writer.  I mean, the company.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft 's network , Microsoft 's rules .
They 're 100 \ % in the right for banning modded consoles .
Basically you can play your pirated games or you can play on Live , but not both with the same console .
Now what angers me is how they 'll send out replacement consoles for warranty repairs that are already banned from Live , and tell the recipient that they must have a modded console and refuse them any recourse .
What also angers me is how it would be easily within the law to ban for almost ANY reason , leaving the user with little to no recourse.I applaud Microsoft 's banning of modded consoles , but condemn Terms of Service in general because they 're 99.999 \ % in the favor of the writer .
I mean , the company .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft's network, Microsoft's rules.
They're 100\% in the right for banning modded consoles.
Basically you can play your pirated games or you can play on Live, but not both with the same console.
Now what angers me is how they'll send out replacement consoles for warranty repairs that are already banned from Live, and tell the recipient that they must have a modded console and refuse them any recourse.
What also angers me is how it would be easily within the law to ban for almost ANY reason, leaving the user with little to no recourse.I applaud Microsoft's banning of modded consoles, but condemn Terms of Service in general because they're 99.999\% in the favor of the writer.
I mean, the company.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30343236</id>
	<title>Re:Buy a second box</title>
	<author>Rexdude</author>
	<datestamp>1260115860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People forget another point- a modded Xbox for cheats is also unfair to other legitimate paying players who have not modded their consoles in anyway. So to maintain a level playing field, it becomes necessary to block the modders.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People forget another point- a modded Xbox for cheats is also unfair to other legitimate paying players who have not modded their consoles in anyway .
So to maintain a level playing field , it becomes necessary to block the modders .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People forget another point- a modded Xbox for cheats is also unfair to other legitimate paying players who have not modded their consoles in anyway.
So to maintain a level playing field, it becomes necessary to block the modders.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30326990</id>
	<title>Ooo... someone questioned American capitalism</title>
	<author>formfeed</author>
	<datestamp>1259956200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Know what, capitalism fan-boy: Contracts are fair between equal partners, or when you have the choice to say no without losing life or property, or when there is enough competition within an industry that you have alternatives - Or when you even had a f*ing choice, and you could lead a normal life without constantly signing away your rights.<p>

Often you find uneven service contracts that allow providers to change terms of service, hike up fees, or terminate the contract unilaterally, because you might have acted differently from expected, or can't be milked any further, or are too much trouble, or don't act conform to their norms, or used free speech while not being on your own property.
<br>Some examples:
</p><ul> <li> credit lenders preying on people with medical bills (there are countries where 100\% APR is illegal, no matter what the contract says).
</li><li>all photo services have vague "good taste" even for private prints (Kodak even adds "blasphemy", so no naked baby Jesus cards this Xmas, I guess).
</li><li>user submitted content often gets licensed over to the company offering the blog/forum.
</li><li>broad "not liable for damages" disclaimers, even in cases where the company knew about the problem or created it (ok with a blog, not ok with a rental car)
</li><li> Walking through a mall with a peace button.
</li><li>...
</li></ul><p>

As far as the ban goes, the Xbox thing might not be the best example for uneven contract law. But by also disabling users' property it certainly is not the reaction of a fair business partner, but of someone who'd like to throw a chair at you. It is like you (probably) stole our city water, so the city will burn down your house. (You should have known, city ordinance says so, and you agreed to it by moving here) </p><p>

You know, companies could behave differently, treat users with reason, fairness, and react appropriately and still do business. I recently posted to an online forum, that states : "Offensive comments might be moderated. (<i>You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page</i>)" (my italics)  - Isn't that a much fairer way to treat people than to simply ban everyone (and destroy their computer) who mentions goats and how nice they can be as pets?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Know what , capitalism fan-boy : Contracts are fair between equal partners , or when you have the choice to say no without losing life or property , or when there is enough competition within an industry that you have alternatives - Or when you even had a f * ing choice , and you could lead a normal life without constantly signing away your rights .
Often you find uneven service contracts that allow providers to change terms of service , hike up fees , or terminate the contract unilaterally , because you might have acted differently from expected , or ca n't be milked any further , or are too much trouble , or do n't act conform to their norms , or used free speech while not being on your own property .
Some examples : credit lenders preying on people with medical bills ( there are countries where 100 \ % APR is illegal , no matter what the contract says ) .
all photo services have vague " good taste " even for private prints ( Kodak even adds " blasphemy " , so no naked baby Jesus cards this Xmas , I guess ) .
user submitted content often gets licensed over to the company offering the blog/forum .
broad " not liable for damages " disclaimers , even in cases where the company knew about the problem or created it ( ok with a blog , not ok with a rental car ) Walking through a mall with a peace button .
.. . As far as the ban goes , the Xbox thing might not be the best example for uneven contract law .
But by also disabling users ' property it certainly is not the reaction of a fair business partner , but of someone who 'd like to throw a chair at you .
It is like you ( probably ) stole our city water , so the city will burn down your house .
( You should have known , city ordinance says so , and you agreed to it by moving here ) You know , companies could behave differently , treat users with reason , fairness , and react appropriately and still do business .
I recently posted to an online forum , that states : " Offensive comments might be moderated .
( You can read everything , even moderated posts , by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page ) " ( my italics ) - Is n't that a much fairer way to treat people than to simply ban everyone ( and destroy their computer ) who mentions goats and how nice they can be as pets ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Know what, capitalism fan-boy: Contracts are fair between equal partners, or when you have the choice to say no without losing life or property, or when there is enough competition within an industry that you have alternatives - Or when you even had a f*ing choice, and you could lead a normal life without constantly signing away your rights.
Often you find uneven service contracts that allow providers to change terms of service, hike up fees, or terminate the contract unilaterally, because you might have acted differently from expected, or can't be milked any further, or are too much trouble, or don't act conform to their norms, or used free speech while not being on your own property.
Some examples:
  credit lenders preying on people with medical bills (there are countries where 100\% APR is illegal, no matter what the contract says).
all photo services have vague "good taste" even for private prints (Kodak even adds "blasphemy", so no naked baby Jesus cards this Xmas, I guess).
user submitted content often gets licensed over to the company offering the blog/forum.
broad "not liable for damages" disclaimers, even in cases where the company knew about the problem or created it (ok with a blog, not ok with a rental car)
 Walking through a mall with a peace button.
...


As far as the ban goes, the Xbox thing might not be the best example for uneven contract law.
But by also disabling users' property it certainly is not the reaction of a fair business partner, but of someone who'd like to throw a chair at you.
It is like you (probably) stole our city water, so the city will burn down your house.
(You should have known, city ordinance says so, and you agreed to it by moving here) 

You know, companies could behave differently, treat users with reason, fairness, and react appropriately and still do business.
I recently posted to an online forum, that states : "Offensive comments might be moderated.
(You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)" (my italics)  - Isn't that a much fairer way to treat people than to simply ban everyone (and destroy their computer) who mentions goats and how nice they can be as pets?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322964</id>
	<title>Re:It's a net loss</title>
	<author>Turzyx</author>
	<datestamp>1259937360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While I sympathise with your situation, I think it's a little unrealistic to expect Microsft to investigate 600,000 cases on a case-by-case basis. You, ignoring whatever your motives were, modified your console and broke their ToS. I expect people could claim they modded their console to play a pirated version of a game they already own, when the original was somehow damaged.<br> <br>It's not like Xbox360s are expensive by the way, they are cheap as hell second hand now, probably no more than twice the price of the DVD drive you purchased, and no, that won't be 'more money for them'.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While I sympathise with your situation , I think it 's a little unrealistic to expect Microsft to investigate 600,000 cases on a case-by-case basis .
You , ignoring whatever your motives were , modified your console and broke their ToS .
I expect people could claim they modded their console to play a pirated version of a game they already own , when the original was somehow damaged .
It 's not like Xbox360s are expensive by the way , they are cheap as hell second hand now , probably no more than twice the price of the DVD drive you purchased , and no , that wo n't be 'more money for them' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I sympathise with your situation, I think it's a little unrealistic to expect Microsft to investigate 600,000 cases on a case-by-case basis.
You, ignoring whatever your motives were, modified your console and broke their ToS.
I expect people could claim they modded their console to play a pirated version of a game they already own, when the original was somehow damaged.
It's not like Xbox360s are expensive by the way, they are cheap as hell second hand now, probably no more than twice the price of the DVD drive you purchased, and no, that won't be 'more money for them'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30362970</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1260266220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Terms like these I would never, ever accept in any deal, business or otherwise. Including negligence! </i></p><p>So if you installed a virus after clicking through several "Are you SURE you want to run this<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.exe file?" messages, Microsoft should be held accountable for your negligence?</p><p>Slashdot would be<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.'ed with legal cases being filed against Microsoft if they didn't have a clause in their EULA protecting them from negligence. I'm not saying its fair or acceptable (I think its pretty heavy handed), but the reality is that a clause like this is ultimately necessary.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Terms like these I would never , ever accept in any deal , business or otherwise .
Including negligence !
So if you installed a virus after clicking through several " Are you SURE you want to run this .exe file ?
" messages , Microsoft should be held accountable for your negligence ? Slashdot would be / .
'ed with legal cases being filed against Microsoft if they did n't have a clause in their EULA protecting them from negligence .
I 'm not saying its fair or acceptable ( I think its pretty heavy handed ) , but the reality is that a clause like this is ultimately necessary .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Terms like these I would never, ever accept in any deal, business or otherwise.
Including negligence!
So if you installed a virus after clicking through several "Are you SURE you want to run this .exe file?
" messages, Microsoft should be held accountable for your negligence?Slashdot would be /.
'ed with legal cases being filed against Microsoft if they didn't have a clause in their EULA protecting them from negligence.
I'm not saying its fair or acceptable (I think its pretty heavy handed), but the reality is that a clause like this is ultimately necessary.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321386</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30325580</id>
	<title>SYSOP</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259950380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Any One of you people EVER ran a BBS and offered your USERs Mail and GAMES?<br>yes it is the SYSOPS right and responsibility... to ban Flamers,Cheaters and etc....</p><p>No I guess NONE of you ever took on the responsibility....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Any One of you people EVER ran a BBS and offered your USERs Mail and GAMES ? yes it is the SYSOPS right and responsibility... to ban Flamers,Cheaters and etc....No I guess NONE of you ever took on the responsibility... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any One of you people EVER ran a BBS and offered your USERs Mail and GAMES?yes it is the SYSOPS right and responsibility... to ban Flamers,Cheaters and etc....No I guess NONE of you ever took on the responsibility....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30325534</id>
	<title>Re:I am so happy to see you modding losers go away</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259950200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a non console owner and long time quake player, I have to say, your an idiot and if you had spent a min reading the posts before spouting off you would know modding had NOTHING to do with cheats only for backups and pirates.</p><p>Just because you can't play don't blame your lameness on cheats that don't exist. Cheaters suck but your just looking for an excuse.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a non console owner and long time quake player , I have to say , your an idiot and if you had spent a min reading the posts before spouting off you would know modding had NOTHING to do with cheats only for backups and pirates.Just because you ca n't play do n't blame your lameness on cheats that do n't exist .
Cheaters suck but your just looking for an excuse .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a non console owner and long time quake player, I have to say, your an idiot and if you had spent a min reading the posts before spouting off you would know modding had NOTHING to do with cheats only for backups and pirates.Just because you can't play don't blame your lameness on cheats that don't exist.
Cheaters suck but your just looking for an excuse.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30323200</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30324294</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259945100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You'd think that, but you'd be wrong. Contracts seem straight forward, until you take Contracts in law school. Absolute mess. Go grab a copy of the UCC and snuggle up with her for a few days and then tell me it's still black and white. Hint: courts will usually put more emphasis than you on the actual terms and words and not so much on "we have a contract. we win."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'd think that , but you 'd be wrong .
Contracts seem straight forward , until you take Contracts in law school .
Absolute mess .
Go grab a copy of the UCC and snuggle up with her for a few days and then tell me it 's still black and white .
Hint : courts will usually put more emphasis than you on the actual terms and words and not so much on " we have a contract .
we win .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'd think that, but you'd be wrong.
Contracts seem straight forward, until you take Contracts in law school.
Absolute mess.
Go grab a copy of the UCC and snuggle up with her for a few days and then tell me it's still black and white.
Hint: courts will usually put more emphasis than you on the actual terms and words and not so much on "we have a contract.
we win.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321238</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30323126</id>
	<title>Re:It's a net loss</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259938740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For everyone of you, there's 100 modders who were just using their modded xbox to play pirated games.</p><p>I don't care about pirates, or modders, but what REALLY got me about them was they were the only ones who could cheat while playing on Live. This made my experience playing CoD4 worse, because some jerk had a modded xbox and hacked game that let him use a pistol that could fire 10x faster than normal (among other cheats).</p><p>I paid for my Xbox, my Live service, and my games. I want a fair experience on Xbox Live, and if that means you can't play your modded xbox, I'm sorry, but too bad so sad. You knew what you were getting when you bought the damn thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For everyone of you , there 's 100 modders who were just using their modded xbox to play pirated games.I do n't care about pirates , or modders , but what REALLY got me about them was they were the only ones who could cheat while playing on Live .
This made my experience playing CoD4 worse , because some jerk had a modded xbox and hacked game that let him use a pistol that could fire 10x faster than normal ( among other cheats ) .I paid for my Xbox , my Live service , and my games .
I want a fair experience on Xbox Live , and if that means you ca n't play your modded xbox , I 'm sorry , but too bad so sad .
You knew what you were getting when you bought the damn thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For everyone of you, there's 100 modders who were just using their modded xbox to play pirated games.I don't care about pirates, or modders, but what REALLY got me about them was they were the only ones who could cheat while playing on Live.
This made my experience playing CoD4 worse, because some jerk had a modded xbox and hacked game that let him use a pistol that could fire 10x faster than normal (among other cheats).I paid for my Xbox, my Live service, and my games.
I want a fair experience on Xbox Live, and if that means you can't play your modded xbox, I'm sorry, but too bad so sad.
You knew what you were getting when you bought the damn thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322242</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321294</id>
	<title>Re:Well..</title>
	<author>dagamer34</author>
	<datestamp>1259867040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The important thing to realize is that Microsoft has actually REMOVED functionality from a banned console. It cannot be used as an extender for Windows Media Center. What is to stop them from crippling your device completely if they feel like it?

While Microsoft doesn't have to let you use their service (a separate issue all together), I've never seen a company allowed to cripple your hardware after you've purchased it, no matter what you've done.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The important thing to realize is that Microsoft has actually REMOVED functionality from a banned console .
It can not be used as an extender for Windows Media Center .
What is to stop them from crippling your device completely if they feel like it ?
While Microsoft does n't have to let you use their service ( a separate issue all together ) , I 've never seen a company allowed to cripple your hardware after you 've purchased it , no matter what you 've done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The important thing to realize is that Microsoft has actually REMOVED functionality from a banned console.
It cannot be used as an extender for Windows Media Center.
What is to stop them from crippling your device completely if they feel like it?
While Microsoft doesn't have to let you use their service (a separate issue all together), I've never seen a company allowed to cripple your hardware after you've purchased it, no matter what you've done.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321128</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30322362</id>
	<title>Re:Ooo... now contracts must not matter to EFF</title>
	<author>superandy47</author>
	<datestamp>1259928660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't doubt that MS is in the (legal) right here - XBL is their network, and they can do whatever the hell they want with it. Personally, my main problem is in the way that console games have become more like PC games in the way that they are commonly shipped full of bugs, which are lately 'fixed' via patches.<br> <br>

My 360 was banned from XBL for having modded firmware. Even though I don't doubt that the majority of modded consoles were modded to play pirate games, mine wasn't, and I'm sure that anyone who has ever had a kid destroy a NZ$100 disc will agree that backing up legitimately-purchased games will agree is fair.<br> <br>

Now I'm stuck with a bunch of purchased retail games shipped with game-breaking bugs, which will -never- be fixed. In FIFA 10, a massive bug (among hundreds of others) causes a manager mode save to be stuck with a club having negative $2.4 billion, ruining the game completely. This will never be fixed for me, and presumably thousands of others. Similar game-breaking bugs in other games, such as Lips (permanently stuck on 'incredibly easy' mode) pre-patch will never be solved for people like me with modded firmware and legitimate retail games.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't doubt that MS is in the ( legal ) right here - XBL is their network , and they can do whatever the hell they want with it .
Personally , my main problem is in the way that console games have become more like PC games in the way that they are commonly shipped full of bugs , which are lately 'fixed ' via patches .
My 360 was banned from XBL for having modded firmware .
Even though I do n't doubt that the majority of modded consoles were modded to play pirate games , mine was n't , and I 'm sure that anyone who has ever had a kid destroy a NZ $ 100 disc will agree that backing up legitimately-purchased games will agree is fair .
Now I 'm stuck with a bunch of purchased retail games shipped with game-breaking bugs , which will -never- be fixed .
In FIFA 10 , a massive bug ( among hundreds of others ) causes a manager mode save to be stuck with a club having negative $ 2.4 billion , ruining the game completely .
This will never be fixed for me , and presumably thousands of others .
Similar game-breaking bugs in other games , such as Lips ( permanently stuck on 'incredibly easy ' mode ) pre-patch will never be solved for people like me with modded firmware and legitimate retail games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't doubt that MS is in the (legal) right here - XBL is their network, and they can do whatever the hell they want with it.
Personally, my main problem is in the way that console games have become more like PC games in the way that they are commonly shipped full of bugs, which are lately 'fixed' via patches.
My 360 was banned from XBL for having modded firmware.
Even though I don't doubt that the majority of modded consoles were modded to play pirate games, mine wasn't, and I'm sure that anyone who has ever had a kid destroy a NZ$100 disc will agree that backing up legitimately-purchased games will agree is fair.
Now I'm stuck with a bunch of purchased retail games shipped with game-breaking bugs, which will -never- be fixed.
In FIFA 10, a massive bug (among hundreds of others) causes a manager mode save to be stuck with a club having negative $2.4 billion, ruining the game completely.
This will never be fixed for me, and presumably thousands of others.
Similar game-breaking bugs in other games, such as Lips (permanently stuck on 'incredibly easy' mode) pre-patch will never be solved for people like me with modded firmware and legitimate retail games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321388</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_12_04_0517225_26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30326990
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_0517225.30321238
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
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