<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_04_038259</id>
	<title>Spain's Proposed Internet Law Sparks Protest, Change</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1259919420000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>[rvr] writes <i>"Last Monday, the Spanish Government published the latest draft for the Sustainable Economy Act, which would enable a Commission dependent of the Ministry of Culture <a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/02/spanish-activists-is.html">to take down websites without a court order</a>, in cases of Intellectual Property piracy. On Wednesday, using Google Wave, a group of journalists, bloggers, professionals and creators composed and issued a <a href="http://hiperactivo.com/2009/12/02/manifesto-in-defense-of-fundamental-rights-on-the-internet/">Manifesto in Defense of Fundamental Rights on the Internet</a>, stating that 'Copyright should not be placed above citizens' fundamental rights to privacy, security, presumption of innocence, effective judicial protection and freedom of expression.' Quickly, more than 50,000 blogs and sites re-published the manifesto. On Thursday morning, the Ministry of Culture &#193;ngeles Gonz&#225;lez Sinde (former president of the Spanish Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences) organized  a meeting with a group of Internet experts and signers of the Manifesto. The meeting was <a href="http://www.gentedigital.es/blogs/gentedeinternet/32/blog-post/3218/twittercronica-de-la-reunion-con-la-ministra-gonzalez-sinde/">narrated in real time via Twitter</a> and concluded without <a href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jADmhIAtOfbCuPoO3A3ZnTFFtgWw">any agreement</a>. On Thursday afternoon, the Prime Minister's staff had a private meeting with the Ministry of Culture and some party members (who also expressed their opposition to the draft). Finally, Spain Prime Minister Jos&#233; Luis Rodr&#237;guez Zapatero announced in a press meeting that the text will be changed and a court order will continue to be a requirement, but [the government] still will search for ways to fight Internet piracy."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>[ rvr ] writes " Last Monday , the Spanish Government published the latest draft for the Sustainable Economy Act , which would enable a Commission dependent of the Ministry of Culture to take down websites without a court order , in cases of Intellectual Property piracy .
On Wednesday , using Google Wave , a group of journalists , bloggers , professionals and creators composed and issued a Manifesto in Defense of Fundamental Rights on the Internet , stating that 'Copyright should not be placed above citizens ' fundamental rights to privacy , security , presumption of innocence , effective judicial protection and freedom of expression .
' Quickly , more than 50,000 blogs and sites re-published the manifesto .
On Thursday morning , the Ministry of Culture   ngeles Gonz   lez Sinde ( former president of the Spanish Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences ) organized a meeting with a group of Internet experts and signers of the Manifesto .
The meeting was narrated in real time via Twitter and concluded without any agreement .
On Thursday afternoon , the Prime Minister 's staff had a private meeting with the Ministry of Culture and some party members ( who also expressed their opposition to the draft ) .
Finally , Spain Prime Minister Jos   Luis Rodr   guez Zapatero announced in a press meeting that the text will be changed and a court order will continue to be a requirement , but [ the government ] still will search for ways to fight Internet piracy .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[rvr] writes "Last Monday, the Spanish Government published the latest draft for the Sustainable Economy Act, which would enable a Commission dependent of the Ministry of Culture to take down websites without a court order, in cases of Intellectual Property piracy.
On Wednesday, using Google Wave, a group of journalists, bloggers, professionals and creators composed and issued a Manifesto in Defense of Fundamental Rights on the Internet, stating that 'Copyright should not be placed above citizens' fundamental rights to privacy, security, presumption of innocence, effective judicial protection and freedom of expression.
' Quickly, more than 50,000 blogs and sites re-published the manifesto.
On Thursday morning, the Ministry of Culture Ángeles González Sinde (former president of the Spanish Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences) organized  a meeting with a group of Internet experts and signers of the Manifesto.
The meeting was narrated in real time via Twitter and concluded without any agreement.
On Thursday afternoon, the Prime Minister's staff had a private meeting with the Ministry of Culture and some party members (who also expressed their opposition to the draft).
Finally, Spain Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero announced in a press meeting that the text will be changed and a court order will continue to be a requirement, but [the government] still will search for ways to fight Internet piracy.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322356</id>
	<title>Tonight, on Weekend Update...</title>
	<author>bbbaldie</author>
	<datestamp>1259928540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Generalissimo Fransisco Franco is still dead...WAIT A MINUTE!! HE'S BEGUN STIRRING!!!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Generalissimo Fransisco Franco is still dead...WAIT A MINUTE ! !
HE 'S BEGUN STIRRING ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Generalissimo Fransisco Franco is still dead...WAIT A MINUTE!!
HE'S BEGUN STIRRING!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322342</id>
	<title>Stop saying piracy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259928300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Moronic journalists and rabid RIAA monkeys may like to use the word piracy, but it is the wrong word. We're talking about copyright infringement or theft.</p><p>Piracy is what people with guns do which causes real harm to real people.</p><p>I haven't heard of anyone sailing up to a ship full of data and demanding copies at gunpoint.</p><p>We on Slashdot at least ought to know the difference.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Moronic journalists and rabid RIAA monkeys may like to use the word piracy , but it is the wrong word .
We 're talking about copyright infringement or theft.Piracy is what people with guns do which causes real harm to real people.I have n't heard of anyone sailing up to a ship full of data and demanding copies at gunpoint.We on Slashdot at least ought to know the difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Moronic journalists and rabid RIAA monkeys may like to use the word piracy, but it is the wrong word.
We're talking about copyright infringement or theft.Piracy is what people with guns do which causes real harm to real people.I haven't heard of anyone sailing up to a ship full of data and demanding copies at gunpoint.We on Slashdot at least ought to know the difference.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322644</id>
	<title>Re:The Web Has Changed</title>
	<author>cpghost</author>
	<datestamp>1259934240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Secondly, the internet has become more centralised. Despite the hype behind Web 2.0, the majority of new internet technologies and sites are controlled by a smaller number of huge companies like Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc.</p></div></blockquote><p>

That's not what I'm worried about, as nothing prevent people from choosing alternatives for hosting their stuff, including putting it on their own local servers/routers @home.
</p><div><p>
The real issue, IMHO, is the centralized nature of the IP infrastructure herself, i.e. the tiered Internet with a couple of major backbones, followed up downstream by many ISPs. Way back during BBS and UUCP days, we could connect directly via modems, using nothing more than a POTS land line. No need for backbones nor ISP middlemen who could be coerced by law to implement all kinds of restrictive or surveillance measures.
</p><div><p>
In the analog days, you couldn't prevent people or modems from whistling on the phone, today you can filter all kinds of digital traffic rather efficiently (unless it's encrypted, but governments may ban encryption for the sake of saving the Holy Copyright).</p></div></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Secondly , the internet has become more centralised .
Despite the hype behind Web 2.0 , the majority of new internet technologies and sites are controlled by a smaller number of huge companies like Google , Microsoft , Facebook , etc .
That 's not what I 'm worried about , as nothing prevent people from choosing alternatives for hosting their stuff , including putting it on their own local servers/routers @ home .
The real issue , IMHO , is the centralized nature of the IP infrastructure herself , i.e .
the tiered Internet with a couple of major backbones , followed up downstream by many ISPs .
Way back during BBS and UUCP days , we could connect directly via modems , using nothing more than a POTS land line .
No need for backbones nor ISP middlemen who could be coerced by law to implement all kinds of restrictive or surveillance measures .
In the analog days , you could n't prevent people or modems from whistling on the phone , today you can filter all kinds of digital traffic rather efficiently ( unless it 's encrypted , but governments may ban encryption for the sake of saving the Holy Copyright ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Secondly, the internet has become more centralised.
Despite the hype behind Web 2.0, the majority of new internet technologies and sites are controlled by a smaller number of huge companies like Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc.
That's not what I'm worried about, as nothing prevent people from choosing alternatives for hosting their stuff, including putting it on their own local servers/routers @home.
The real issue, IMHO, is the centralized nature of the IP infrastructure herself, i.e.
the tiered Internet with a couple of major backbones, followed up downstream by many ISPs.
Way back during BBS and UUCP days, we could connect directly via modems, using nothing more than a POTS land line.
No need for backbones nor ISP middlemen who could be coerced by law to implement all kinds of restrictive or surveillance measures.
In the analog days, you couldn't prevent people or modems from whistling on the phone, today you can filter all kinds of digital traffic rather efficiently (unless it's encrypted, but governments may ban encryption for the sake of saving the Holy Copyright).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322496</id>
	<title>.. will search for ways to fight Internet piracy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259931420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Last time the gov of Spain had "issues" they needed to solve with less "lawyers" the Spanish Interior Ministry funded the G.A.L.(Grupos Antiterroristas de Liberaci&#243;n).<br>A death squad to go after ETA.<br>
Ignore the 3rd letter from your ISP and you might have Portuguese or French mercenaries at your door.<br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupos\_Antiterroristas\_de\_Liberaci" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupos\_Antiterroristas\_de\_Liberaci</a> [wikipedia.org]&#243;n</htmltext>
<tokenext>Last time the gov of Spain had " issues " they needed to solve with less " lawyers " the Spanish Interior Ministry funded the G.A.L .
( Grupos Antiterroristas de Liberaci   n ) .A death squad to go after ETA .
Ignore the 3rd letter from your ISP and you might have Portuguese or French mercenaries at your door .
http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupos \ _Antiterroristas \ _de \ _Liberaci [ wikipedia.org ]   n</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last time the gov of Spain had "issues" they needed to solve with less "lawyers" the Spanish Interior Ministry funded the G.A.L.
(Grupos Antiterroristas de Liberación).A death squad to go after ETA.
Ignore the 3rd letter from your ISP and you might have Portuguese or French mercenaries at your door.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupos\_Antiterroristas\_de\_Liberaci [wikipedia.org]ón</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322144</id>
	<title>The Web Has Changed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259924220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Spain is now added to the growing list of countries attempting to put the free internet genie back in the bottle. Many scoff at such attempts and repeat tired old platitudes from the early 1990s about how the internet routes around censorship, etc. But what they forget is that in the last 10, and particularly in the last 5 years, the internet has changed. Drastically. An unfree web is closer now than at any time in the history of the network.</p><p>Several developments have lead us to this point. Firstly, and perhaps most importantly, was the development of the Great Firewall of China. The apparatus designed, developed and implemented by the Chinese communist party has <i>conclusively proven</i> that the internet can be controlled, filtered and censored on a massive scale. The technologies developed for its implementation, largely by western companies, are now being sold back to western governments with much the same task in mind. While the wall is not airtight, it does offer the governments the level of control they once enjoyed over traditional media like books and newspapers. As a mass medium, the internet can be successfully centered.</p><p>Secondly, the internet has become more centralised. Despite the hype behind Web 2.0, the majority of new internet technologies and sites are controlled by a smaller number of huge companies like Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc. What's your hompage right now, and how do you find your way to sites? This is in stark contrast to the very early days of the web, or even the 1990s, where there were no search engines, and the only meeting places were on irc. People now store most, if not all, of their private information on the servers, the "clouds", of big companies, so all that is needed to gain  large awareness on the net is control of this relatively small number of private interests.</p><p>Thirdly, the vast majority of internet users are now technically unsavvy. Combined with the increasing complexity of website and protocols, this means that the network has become and ever more inscrutable blackbox, and most users will be unaware of any censorship efforts or implementations; that is, where they are not completely apathetic. Whereas in the past, netziens were more likely to spot, and indeed protest at censorship, nowadays most users simply will not care as long as their webmail and social networking accounts are unaffected. Governments can site this apathy as justification, and indeed have.</p><p>The Web has changed. We're going to see more and more Governments implementing acts like these. It's in the interests of all big players to shape the internet into a controllable mass medium and that's why they're going to keep pushing these laws, worldwide, until they achieve that goal. In ten years times, earlier times will be looked back on as anarchy by all but a few idealists, who will be looked on as hippies or cranks.</p><p>My advice is to learn how to use a typewriter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Spain is now added to the growing list of countries attempting to put the free internet genie back in the bottle .
Many scoff at such attempts and repeat tired old platitudes from the early 1990s about how the internet routes around censorship , etc .
But what they forget is that in the last 10 , and particularly in the last 5 years , the internet has changed .
Drastically. An unfree web is closer now than at any time in the history of the network.Several developments have lead us to this point .
Firstly , and perhaps most importantly , was the development of the Great Firewall of China .
The apparatus designed , developed and implemented by the Chinese communist party has conclusively proven that the internet can be controlled , filtered and censored on a massive scale .
The technologies developed for its implementation , largely by western companies , are now being sold back to western governments with much the same task in mind .
While the wall is not airtight , it does offer the governments the level of control they once enjoyed over traditional media like books and newspapers .
As a mass medium , the internet can be successfully centered.Secondly , the internet has become more centralised .
Despite the hype behind Web 2.0 , the majority of new internet technologies and sites are controlled by a smaller number of huge companies like Google , Microsoft , Facebook , etc .
What 's your hompage right now , and how do you find your way to sites ?
This is in stark contrast to the very early days of the web , or even the 1990s , where there were no search engines , and the only meeting places were on irc .
People now store most , if not all , of their private information on the servers , the " clouds " , of big companies , so all that is needed to gain large awareness on the net is control of this relatively small number of private interests.Thirdly , the vast majority of internet users are now technically unsavvy .
Combined with the increasing complexity of website and protocols , this means that the network has become and ever more inscrutable blackbox , and most users will be unaware of any censorship efforts or implementations ; that is , where they are not completely apathetic .
Whereas in the past , netziens were more likely to spot , and indeed protest at censorship , nowadays most users simply will not care as long as their webmail and social networking accounts are unaffected .
Governments can site this apathy as justification , and indeed have.The Web has changed .
We 're going to see more and more Governments implementing acts like these .
It 's in the interests of all big players to shape the internet into a controllable mass medium and that 's why they 're going to keep pushing these laws , worldwide , until they achieve that goal .
In ten years times , earlier times will be looked back on as anarchy by all but a few idealists , who will be looked on as hippies or cranks.My advice is to learn how to use a typewriter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Spain is now added to the growing list of countries attempting to put the free internet genie back in the bottle.
Many scoff at such attempts and repeat tired old platitudes from the early 1990s about how the internet routes around censorship, etc.
But what they forget is that in the last 10, and particularly in the last 5 years, the internet has changed.
Drastically. An unfree web is closer now than at any time in the history of the network.Several developments have lead us to this point.
Firstly, and perhaps most importantly, was the development of the Great Firewall of China.
The apparatus designed, developed and implemented by the Chinese communist party has conclusively proven that the internet can be controlled, filtered and censored on a massive scale.
The technologies developed for its implementation, largely by western companies, are now being sold back to western governments with much the same task in mind.
While the wall is not airtight, it does offer the governments the level of control they once enjoyed over traditional media like books and newspapers.
As a mass medium, the internet can be successfully centered.Secondly, the internet has become more centralised.
Despite the hype behind Web 2.0, the majority of new internet technologies and sites are controlled by a smaller number of huge companies like Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc.
What's your hompage right now, and how do you find your way to sites?
This is in stark contrast to the very early days of the web, or even the 1990s, where there were no search engines, and the only meeting places were on irc.
People now store most, if not all, of their private information on the servers, the "clouds", of big companies, so all that is needed to gain  large awareness on the net is control of this relatively small number of private interests.Thirdly, the vast majority of internet users are now technically unsavvy.
Combined with the increasing complexity of website and protocols, this means that the network has become and ever more inscrutable blackbox, and most users will be unaware of any censorship efforts or implementations; that is, where they are not completely apathetic.
Whereas in the past, netziens were more likely to spot, and indeed protest at censorship, nowadays most users simply will not care as long as their webmail and social networking accounts are unaffected.
Governments can site this apathy as justification, and indeed have.The Web has changed.
We're going to see more and more Governments implementing acts like these.
It's in the interests of all big players to shape the internet into a controllable mass medium and that's why they're going to keep pushing these laws, worldwide, until they achieve that goal.
In ten years times, earlier times will be looked back on as anarchy by all but a few idealists, who will be looked on as hippies or cranks.My advice is to learn how to use a typewriter.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30325296</id>
	<title>Democracy</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1259949240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Quickly, more than 50,000 blogs and sites re-published the manifesto. On Thursday morning, the Ministry of Culture &#193;ngeles Gonz&#225;lez Sinde (former president of the Spanish Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences) organized a meeting with a group of Internet experts and signers of the Manifesto. The meeting was narrated in real time via Twitter and concluded without any agreement. On Thursday afternoon, the Prime Minister's staff had a private meeting with the Ministry of Culture and some party members (who also expressed their opposition to the draft). Finally, Spain Prime Minister Jos&#233; Luis Rodr&#237;guez Zapatero announced in a press meeting that the text will be changed and a court order will continue to be a requirement</p></div><p>My congratulations to Spaniards: your country seems to be a genuine, properly functional democracy. Please keep it that way - it's a dying breed these days!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Quickly , more than 50,000 blogs and sites re-published the manifesto .
On Thursday morning , the Ministry of Culture   ngeles Gonz   lez Sinde ( former president of the Spanish Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences ) organized a meeting with a group of Internet experts and signers of the Manifesto .
The meeting was narrated in real time via Twitter and concluded without any agreement .
On Thursday afternoon , the Prime Minister 's staff had a private meeting with the Ministry of Culture and some party members ( who also expressed their opposition to the draft ) .
Finally , Spain Prime Minister Jos   Luis Rodr   guez Zapatero announced in a press meeting that the text will be changed and a court order will continue to be a requirementMy congratulations to Spaniards : your country seems to be a genuine , properly functional democracy .
Please keep it that way - it 's a dying breed these days !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quickly, more than 50,000 blogs and sites re-published the manifesto.
On Thursday morning, the Ministry of Culture Ángeles González Sinde (former president of the Spanish Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences) organized a meeting with a group of Internet experts and signers of the Manifesto.
The meeting was narrated in real time via Twitter and concluded without any agreement.
On Thursday afternoon, the Prime Minister's staff had a private meeting with the Ministry of Culture and some party members (who also expressed their opposition to the draft).
Finally, Spain Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero announced in a press meeting that the text will be changed and a court order will continue to be a requirementMy congratulations to Spaniards: your country seems to be a genuine, properly functional democracy.
Please keep it that way - it's a dying breed these days!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322120</id>
	<title>Joer, t&#237;o!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259923680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Espa&#241;oles, qu&#233; os pas&#243;?  You used to be cool.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Espa   oles , qu   os pas   ?
You used to be cool .
: P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Españoles, qué os pasó?
You used to be cool.
:P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322396</id>
	<title>he said</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259929080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>on the internet</p><p>(smirk)</p><p>what they do in china or iran has no bearing on the internet in liberal western countries, because there is no assumption of the basic rights you take for granted here. example #1, being this very story you wrote your comment under: people protest in spain, and have the right to do so, and affect feedback on their government via a vote and their free expression. this has an effect on the policy of the spanish government. how can i say this: read the fucking story, spanish people en masse are making a difference. there is no such feedback in china: the technocrats in beijing dictate, and their will is done. someday, this status quo will be overturned, simply because the agenda of the common man and the agenda of the ruling class, if decoupled as in a nondemocracy, will come to revolution and societal breakdown inevitably, as we see beginning in iran this june</p><p>but nevermind my optimism, lets get back to your gloomy pantywaist pessimism about the state of the world: why are you even writing this on slashdot? why aren't you hard at work on your typewriter, tinfoil on head, boxes of crackers and ammo in your cave? because of the value of the internet to project your thoughts, 1,000,000x better than that of a typewriter, that's why. a value you cherish, as i do, and, unlike you, who has resigned yourself to liberal western countries controlling you as much as totalitarian ones for some paranoid schizophrenic reason, i, and many others like me, will fight for this value of the internet we cherish. and others like me, unlike you, know that our government listens to us via our vote and our words. yes, dorothy, it actually does, all fashionable cynical cowardly opinion to the contrary be retarded</p><p>i know that i matter. that you believe you don't matter is your own intellectual failure, not mine, and your resignation to your self-imposed helplessness is a resignation that only affects your sorry ass, and has no bearing on my rights and abilities as a free man of a liberal western democracy, which i fully comprehend, appreciate, enjoy, and practice. if my society fails into fascism, it will be no fault of mine, but by the unfortunate proliferation of weak spineless pessimistic fools like yourself who have already given up before any battle has even been fought</p><p>otherwise, if you want to continue to cite vast conspiratorial forces that control you and a stranglehold by multinational corporations on your government, then what the hell are you even protesting about if you have already given up on your society so thoroughly? your government is not as darkly compromised as you portray it, because if it were, you wouldn't even be here on slashdot complaining about it, because you would be certain it wouldn't make any difference</p><p>oh, but you do write words... so therefore you do, in some perhaps subconscious way, believe you can still make a difference. so since there is a shadow of doubt in your mind about the thoroughness of your slavery, that you might actually retain some self-determination in your life and your government, then the next step in your intellectual growth would be to realize you actually matter in your western democracy, that the principles you care about actually matter and have a good chance, and that you should get out there and actually agitate for the change you believe in, like every other truly free man. claim your status as a free man, and stop fucking whining about doomed we all are. because your problem, unlike most of us, is that your lack of freedom is imposed on yourself by your own failed point of view, not by any government. learned helplessness: its a degenerate psychological state, not a valid ideology</p><p>instead of hiding in your basement and writing whiny missives on slashdot about how we're all doomed, why don't you stop being so fucking pathetic, claim yourself as a free man, stop being spooked by shadows, grow a fucking backbone, and fight in the framework of your society which values liberal notions of various freedoms, and actually fucking fight for fucking once about what actually fucking matters in this world?</p><p>wake the fuck up, chicken little</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>on the internet ( smirk ) what they do in china or iran has no bearing on the internet in liberal western countries , because there is no assumption of the basic rights you take for granted here .
example # 1 , being this very story you wrote your comment under : people protest in spain , and have the right to do so , and affect feedback on their government via a vote and their free expression .
this has an effect on the policy of the spanish government .
how can i say this : read the fucking story , spanish people en masse are making a difference .
there is no such feedback in china : the technocrats in beijing dictate , and their will is done .
someday , this status quo will be overturned , simply because the agenda of the common man and the agenda of the ruling class , if decoupled as in a nondemocracy , will come to revolution and societal breakdown inevitably , as we see beginning in iran this junebut nevermind my optimism , lets get back to your gloomy pantywaist pessimism about the state of the world : why are you even writing this on slashdot ?
why are n't you hard at work on your typewriter , tinfoil on head , boxes of crackers and ammo in your cave ?
because of the value of the internet to project your thoughts , 1,000,000x better than that of a typewriter , that 's why .
a value you cherish , as i do , and , unlike you , who has resigned yourself to liberal western countries controlling you as much as totalitarian ones for some paranoid schizophrenic reason , i , and many others like me , will fight for this value of the internet we cherish .
and others like me , unlike you , know that our government listens to us via our vote and our words .
yes , dorothy , it actually does , all fashionable cynical cowardly opinion to the contrary be retardedi know that i matter .
that you believe you do n't matter is your own intellectual failure , not mine , and your resignation to your self-imposed helplessness is a resignation that only affects your sorry ass , and has no bearing on my rights and abilities as a free man of a liberal western democracy , which i fully comprehend , appreciate , enjoy , and practice .
if my society fails into fascism , it will be no fault of mine , but by the unfortunate proliferation of weak spineless pessimistic fools like yourself who have already given up before any battle has even been foughtotherwise , if you want to continue to cite vast conspiratorial forces that control you and a stranglehold by multinational corporations on your government , then what the hell are you even protesting about if you have already given up on your society so thoroughly ?
your government is not as darkly compromised as you portray it , because if it were , you would n't even be here on slashdot complaining about it , because you would be certain it would n't make any differenceoh , but you do write words... so therefore you do , in some perhaps subconscious way , believe you can still make a difference .
so since there is a shadow of doubt in your mind about the thoroughness of your slavery , that you might actually retain some self-determination in your life and your government , then the next step in your intellectual growth would be to realize you actually matter in your western democracy , that the principles you care about actually matter and have a good chance , and that you should get out there and actually agitate for the change you believe in , like every other truly free man .
claim your status as a free man , and stop fucking whining about doomed we all are .
because your problem , unlike most of us , is that your lack of freedom is imposed on yourself by your own failed point of view , not by any government .
learned helplessness : its a degenerate psychological state , not a valid ideologyinstead of hiding in your basement and writing whiny missives on slashdot about how we 're all doomed , why do n't you stop being so fucking pathetic , claim yourself as a free man , stop being spooked by shadows , grow a fucking backbone , and fight in the framework of your society which values liberal notions of various freedoms , and actually fucking fight for fucking once about what actually fucking matters in this world ? wake the fuck up , chicken little</tokentext>
<sentencetext>on the internet(smirk)what they do in china or iran has no bearing on the internet in liberal western countries, because there is no assumption of the basic rights you take for granted here.
example #1, being this very story you wrote your comment under: people protest in spain, and have the right to do so, and affect feedback on their government via a vote and their free expression.
this has an effect on the policy of the spanish government.
how can i say this: read the fucking story, spanish people en masse are making a difference.
there is no such feedback in china: the technocrats in beijing dictate, and their will is done.
someday, this status quo will be overturned, simply because the agenda of the common man and the agenda of the ruling class, if decoupled as in a nondemocracy, will come to revolution and societal breakdown inevitably, as we see beginning in iran this junebut nevermind my optimism, lets get back to your gloomy pantywaist pessimism about the state of the world: why are you even writing this on slashdot?
why aren't you hard at work on your typewriter, tinfoil on head, boxes of crackers and ammo in your cave?
because of the value of the internet to project your thoughts, 1,000,000x better than that of a typewriter, that's why.
a value you cherish, as i do, and, unlike you, who has resigned yourself to liberal western countries controlling you as much as totalitarian ones for some paranoid schizophrenic reason, i, and many others like me, will fight for this value of the internet we cherish.
and others like me, unlike you, know that our government listens to us via our vote and our words.
yes, dorothy, it actually does, all fashionable cynical cowardly opinion to the contrary be retardedi know that i matter.
that you believe you don't matter is your own intellectual failure, not mine, and your resignation to your self-imposed helplessness is a resignation that only affects your sorry ass, and has no bearing on my rights and abilities as a free man of a liberal western democracy, which i fully comprehend, appreciate, enjoy, and practice.
if my society fails into fascism, it will be no fault of mine, but by the unfortunate proliferation of weak spineless pessimistic fools like yourself who have already given up before any battle has even been foughtotherwise, if you want to continue to cite vast conspiratorial forces that control you and a stranglehold by multinational corporations on your government, then what the hell are you even protesting about if you have already given up on your society so thoroughly?
your government is not as darkly compromised as you portray it, because if it were, you wouldn't even be here on slashdot complaining about it, because you would be certain it wouldn't make any differenceoh, but you do write words... so therefore you do, in some perhaps subconscious way, believe you can still make a difference.
so since there is a shadow of doubt in your mind about the thoroughness of your slavery, that you might actually retain some self-determination in your life and your government, then the next step in your intellectual growth would be to realize you actually matter in your western democracy, that the principles you care about actually matter and have a good chance, and that you should get out there and actually agitate for the change you believe in, like every other truly free man.
claim your status as a free man, and stop fucking whining about doomed we all are.
because your problem, unlike most of us, is that your lack of freedom is imposed on yourself by your own failed point of view, not by any government.
learned helplessness: its a degenerate psychological state, not a valid ideologyinstead of hiding in your basement and writing whiny missives on slashdot about how we're all doomed, why don't you stop being so fucking pathetic, claim yourself as a free man, stop being spooked by shadows, grow a fucking backbone, and fight in the framework of your society which values liberal notions of various freedoms, and actually fucking fight for fucking once about what actually fucking matters in this world?wake the fuck up, chicken little</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30324504</id>
	<title>Re:The Web Has Changed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259946060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>(but with power in the anonymous - my words, not my face..)     I can see the direction that the author is coming from; one of someone who works in the tech industry.  And while the ability to write such a post freely seems to be a contradiction to his main point as some of the other comments point out, so too is his point about the average person on the internet not caring or knowing how much they have become censored.  Case and point is many of the comments that speak so strongly against what is written here..</p><p>For many years now, the governments of the world have realized that their own citizens are far more dangerous than the citizens of anywhere else (ie military) could be.  Since this realization, you have lost freedoms at an ever-increasing rate, no matter where you live.  The only truly enslaved person is one who doesn't see the walls of his cage - one who thinks of himself as "free".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>( but with power in the anonymous - my words , not my face.. ) I can see the direction that the author is coming from ; one of someone who works in the tech industry .
And while the ability to write such a post freely seems to be a contradiction to his main point as some of the other comments point out , so too is his point about the average person on the internet not caring or knowing how much they have become censored .
Case and point is many of the comments that speak so strongly against what is written here..For many years now , the governments of the world have realized that their own citizens are far more dangerous than the citizens of anywhere else ( ie military ) could be .
Since this realization , you have lost freedoms at an ever-increasing rate , no matter where you live .
The only truly enslaved person is one who does n't see the walls of his cage - one who thinks of himself as " free " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>(but with power in the anonymous - my words, not my face..)     I can see the direction that the author is coming from; one of someone who works in the tech industry.
And while the ability to write such a post freely seems to be a contradiction to his main point as some of the other comments point out, so too is his point about the average person on the internet not caring or knowing how much they have become censored.
Case and point is many of the comments that speak so strongly against what is written here..For many years now, the governments of the world have realized that their own citizens are far more dangerous than the citizens of anywhere else (ie military) could be.
Since this realization, you have lost freedoms at an ever-increasing rate, no matter where you live.
The only truly enslaved person is one who doesn't see the walls of his cage - one who thinks of himself as "free".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30324766</id>
	<title>I didn't expect</title>
	<author>WhiteDragon</author>
	<datestamp>1259947140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>a sort of Spanish Inquisition!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>a sort of Spanish Inquisition !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>a sort of Spanish Inquisition!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322176</id>
	<title>Good for them!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259924940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I couldn't imagine such a thing happening where I live (Denmark). I hadn't seen it coming in Spain, but this is awesome. Makes me believe in a sane legal system - albeit a futile world view - maybe I oughta move to Spain?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I could n't imagine such a thing happening where I live ( Denmark ) .
I had n't seen it coming in Spain , but this is awesome .
Makes me believe in a sane legal system - albeit a futile world view - maybe I oughta move to Spain ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I couldn't imagine such a thing happening where I live (Denmark).
I hadn't seen it coming in Spain, but this is awesome.
Makes me believe in a sane legal system - albeit a futile world view - maybe I oughta move to Spain?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322340</id>
	<title>Prime minister??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259928180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live in Spain and had no idea whe had a prime minisrer. I allways thought that even if we had a monarch we had a goverment president. Wich is, like or not , Zapatero.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in Spain and had no idea whe had a prime minisrer .
I allways thought that even if we had a monarch we had a goverment president .
Wich is , like or not , Zapatero .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in Spain and had no idea whe had a prime minisrer.
I allways thought that even if we had a monarch we had a goverment president.
Wich is, like or not , Zapatero.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30323150</id>
	<title>Re:Duh.</title>
	<author>commodore64\_love</author>
	<datestamp>1259938920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;&gt;The SGAE is nothing new, they're the usual corrupt mafia-like organization that you'd expect. They're just trying to screw over both consumers and artists as much as they can. They'd love to have it both ways (making downloads illegal and keeping the levies).<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;</p><p>I've said it before and I'll say it again:</p><p>The world would be a better place if the CEOs of SGAE, RIAA, MPAA, CRIA, and so on were executed by a mob of citizens.  I guarantee you'd have a hard time finding a new CEO to replace the dead one.  Scare the suits into submission.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; &gt; The SGAE is nothing new , they 're the usual corrupt mafia-like organization that you 'd expect .
They 're just trying to screw over both consumers and artists as much as they can .
They 'd love to have it both ways ( making downloads illegal and keeping the levies ) . &gt; &gt; &gt; I 've said it before and I 'll say it again : The world would be a better place if the CEOs of SGAE , RIAA , MPAA , CRIA , and so on were executed by a mob of citizens .
I guarantee you 'd have a hard time finding a new CEO to replace the dead one .
Scare the suits into submission .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;&gt;The SGAE is nothing new, they're the usual corrupt mafia-like organization that you'd expect.
They're just trying to screw over both consumers and artists as much as they can.
They'd love to have it both ways (making downloads illegal and keeping the levies).&gt;&gt;&gt;I've said it before and I'll say it again:The world would be a better place if the CEOs of SGAE, RIAA, MPAA, CRIA, and so on were executed by a mob of citizens.
I guarantee you'd have a hard time finding a new CEO to replace the dead one.
Scare the suits into submission.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322150</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322424</id>
	<title>Re:The Web Has Changed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259929560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with most you said about the masses, though I'm not sure I'd go that far. But I disagree that it's time to "learn to use a typewriter", the free and technically savvy parts of the Internet is doing just fine. Why would we go anywhere as long as everything can be tunnelled on top of the existing one?</p><p>Also, I'm not sure if you misunderstand cause and effect. The repeated attempts to create "borders" on the Internet is exactly because people have understood how easy it is to circumvent them. Can't do $something in $country? Put it online on a server outside their juridiction, don't have a presence in that country and you can ignore those laws with impunity. How many times have YouTube been in the press because they have clips that aren't legal in their country of origin, but legal under US law? And for everything not illegal in Sweden, check the Pirate Bay (and for most of the rest too).</p><p>The only thing they can even touch is the stuff where they, against most reason, has managed to create one "world law" already. Like for example child pornography which is almost universally defined as under 18, even though in most of the world you can legally have sex with a 17 year old. Look at something like suprnova, it was huge and now it's gone but the world routed around it like nothing happened.</p><p>With each computer becoming more and more powerful, the less you need to find thousands of peers in a centralized solution. Everyone that's read about six degrees of Kevin Bacon knows we could do just fine with a F2F network - friend to friend. With enough bandwidth I'd happily "pipe" information from one friend to the other, without them ever knowing each other. Even if they could crush the central solutions, it'd be like chopping the tip off an iceberg, more would just rise to the surface.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with most you said about the masses , though I 'm not sure I 'd go that far .
But I disagree that it 's time to " learn to use a typewriter " , the free and technically savvy parts of the Internet is doing just fine .
Why would we go anywhere as long as everything can be tunnelled on top of the existing one ? Also , I 'm not sure if you misunderstand cause and effect .
The repeated attempts to create " borders " on the Internet is exactly because people have understood how easy it is to circumvent them .
Ca n't do $ something in $ country ?
Put it online on a server outside their juridiction , do n't have a presence in that country and you can ignore those laws with impunity .
How many times have YouTube been in the press because they have clips that are n't legal in their country of origin , but legal under US law ?
And for everything not illegal in Sweden , check the Pirate Bay ( and for most of the rest too ) .The only thing they can even touch is the stuff where they , against most reason , has managed to create one " world law " already .
Like for example child pornography which is almost universally defined as under 18 , even though in most of the world you can legally have sex with a 17 year old .
Look at something like suprnova , it was huge and now it 's gone but the world routed around it like nothing happened.With each computer becoming more and more powerful , the less you need to find thousands of peers in a centralized solution .
Everyone that 's read about six degrees of Kevin Bacon knows we could do just fine with a F2F network - friend to friend .
With enough bandwidth I 'd happily " pipe " information from one friend to the other , without them ever knowing each other .
Even if they could crush the central solutions , it 'd be like chopping the tip off an iceberg , more would just rise to the surface .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with most you said about the masses, though I'm not sure I'd go that far.
But I disagree that it's time to "learn to use a typewriter", the free and technically savvy parts of the Internet is doing just fine.
Why would we go anywhere as long as everything can be tunnelled on top of the existing one?Also, I'm not sure if you misunderstand cause and effect.
The repeated attempts to create "borders" on the Internet is exactly because people have understood how easy it is to circumvent them.
Can't do $something in $country?
Put it online on a server outside their juridiction, don't have a presence in that country and you can ignore those laws with impunity.
How many times have YouTube been in the press because they have clips that aren't legal in their country of origin, but legal under US law?
And for everything not illegal in Sweden, check the Pirate Bay (and for most of the rest too).The only thing they can even touch is the stuff where they, against most reason, has managed to create one "world law" already.
Like for example child pornography which is almost universally defined as under 18, even though in most of the world you can legally have sex with a 17 year old.
Look at something like suprnova, it was huge and now it's gone but the world routed around it like nothing happened.With each computer becoming more and more powerful, the less you need to find thousands of peers in a centralized solution.
Everyone that's read about six degrees of Kevin Bacon knows we could do just fine with a F2F network - friend to friend.
With enough bandwidth I'd happily "pipe" information from one friend to the other, without them ever knowing each other.
Even if they could crush the central solutions, it'd be like chopping the tip off an iceberg, more would just rise to the surface.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322722</id>
	<title>Re:The Web Has Changed</title>
	<author>misexistentialist</author>
	<datestamp>1259935200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>  My advice is to learn how to use a typewriter.</p></div><p> <i>The Lives of Others</i> shows how typewriters can be controlled by the government too through restricting sales and "fingerprinting" them. The problem has always been government corruption--the internet cannot save us from ourselves.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My advice is to learn how to use a typewriter .
The Lives of Others shows how typewriters can be controlled by the government too through restricting sales and " fingerprinting " them .
The problem has always been government corruption--the internet can not save us from ourselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  My advice is to learn how to use a typewriter.
The Lives of Others shows how typewriters can be controlled by the government too through restricting sales and "fingerprinting" them.
The problem has always been government corruption--the internet cannot save us from ourselves.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322316</id>
	<title>Re:Wellcome to China.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259927700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>note: to be honest, I don't see evil on some pages blocked (terrorist stuff),</p> </div><p>The problem is, who defines what is terrorist stuff? When I write that Zapatero should go to hell? (Not that the PP would be any better)  If you start blocking one page, the call for more is imminent, and it's even worse because it's not public what is blocked and why, so one can not check if they reason why its blocked is true. Besides, someone who wants to find the information will find it (VPN, proxies in other countries<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... you get the idea).</p><p><div class="quote"><p>so theres some blocking on the Spanish ISP.</p> </div><p>Indeed? Damn.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>note : to be honest , I do n't see evil on some pages blocked ( terrorist stuff ) , The problem is , who defines what is terrorist stuff ?
When I write that Zapatero should go to hell ?
( Not that the PP would be any better ) If you start blocking one page , the call for more is imminent , and it 's even worse because it 's not public what is blocked and why , so one can not check if they reason why its blocked is true .
Besides , someone who wants to find the information will find it ( VPN , proxies in other countries ... you get the idea ) .so theres some blocking on the Spanish ISP .
Indeed ? Damn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>note: to be honest, I don't see evil on some pages blocked (terrorist stuff), The problem is, who defines what is terrorist stuff?
When I write that Zapatero should go to hell?
(Not that the PP would be any better)  If you start blocking one page, the call for more is imminent, and it's even worse because it's not public what is blocked and why, so one can not check if they reason why its blocked is true.
Besides, someone who wants to find the information will find it (VPN, proxies in other countries ... you get the idea).so theres some blocking on the Spanish ISP.
Indeed? Damn.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322188</id>
	<title>Wellcome to China.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259925240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"JesusEncinar "Vais a hacer que internet en Espa&#241;a sea como China?" pregunta @iescolar. Responden: "Ya lo es""</p><p>The blogger ask if "You guys will make internet work in Spain like in China?".<br>The ministry representant  "It already work like that".</p><p>note: to be honest, I don't see evil on some pages bloqued (terrorist stuff), so theres some blocking on the spanish ISP. But china works on a more serius "lets filter internet based on a bias" stuff. Comparing China with Spain is madness.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" JesusEncinar " Vais a hacer que internet en Espa   a sea como China ?
" pregunta @ iescolar .
Responden : " Ya lo es " " The blogger ask if " You guys will make internet work in Spain like in China ?
" .The ministry representant " It already work like that " .note : to be honest , I do n't see evil on some pages bloqued ( terrorist stuff ) , so theres some blocking on the spanish ISP .
But china works on a more serius " lets filter internet based on a bias " stuff .
Comparing China with Spain is madness .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"JesusEncinar "Vais a hacer que internet en España sea como China?
" pregunta @iescolar.
Responden: "Ya lo es""The blogger ask if "You guys will make internet work in Spain like in China?
".The ministry representant  "It already work like that".note: to be honest, I don't see evil on some pages bloqued (terrorist stuff), so theres some blocking on the spanish ISP.
But china works on a more serius "lets filter internet based on a bias" stuff.
Comparing China with Spain is madness.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322150</id>
	<title>Duh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259924400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A few notes for those not aware of how things have been going around here lately (I'm Spanish):</p><ul> <li>The current Spanish government is in bed with the local equivalent of the MAFIAA (the SGAE).</li><li>Downloading copyrighted audio/video works is legal in spain, as long as no profit is made (this does not apply to software). Whether uploading is legal or not (or how illegal it is) is somewhat debated. There have been plenty of people "turning themselves" in for downloading, with no arrests made.</li><li>To offset the legal downloads, just about everything relevant to copying has a levy on it, including writable optical media (the levies there are ridiculous), but also the writers, hard drives, USB sticks, MP3 players, cellphones, printers, scanners, photocopiers, etc. For example, you're paying the SGAE &euro;12 for each hard drive, except for those bundled as master drives on new systems. These profits are then theoretically distributed by the SGAE to artists in highly controversial ways.</li><li>Nonetheless, there is constant FUD claiming that "pirating" music and movies is illegal and will get you jailed (there are some pretty ridiculous advertising campaigns by the SGAE)</li></ul><p>The SGAE is nothing new, they're the usual corrupt mafia-like organization that you'd expect. They're just trying to screw over both consumers and artists as much as they can. They'd love to have it both ways (making downloads illegal <b>and</b> keeping the levies).</p><p>Funny tidbit: the SGAE used to claim that Linux was a shareware version of UNIX on their glossary page. They later "fixed" it by lifting a paragraph from Wikipedia, in violation of the GFDL.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A few notes for those not aware of how things have been going around here lately ( I 'm Spanish ) : The current Spanish government is in bed with the local equivalent of the MAFIAA ( the SGAE ) .Downloading copyrighted audio/video works is legal in spain , as long as no profit is made ( this does not apply to software ) .
Whether uploading is legal or not ( or how illegal it is ) is somewhat debated .
There have been plenty of people " turning themselves " in for downloading , with no arrests made.To offset the legal downloads , just about everything relevant to copying has a levy on it , including writable optical media ( the levies there are ridiculous ) , but also the writers , hard drives , USB sticks , MP3 players , cellphones , printers , scanners , photocopiers , etc .
For example , you 're paying the SGAE    12 for each hard drive , except for those bundled as master drives on new systems .
These profits are then theoretically distributed by the SGAE to artists in highly controversial ways.Nonetheless , there is constant FUD claiming that " pirating " music and movies is illegal and will get you jailed ( there are some pretty ridiculous advertising campaigns by the SGAE ) The SGAE is nothing new , they 're the usual corrupt mafia-like organization that you 'd expect .
They 're just trying to screw over both consumers and artists as much as they can .
They 'd love to have it both ways ( making downloads illegal and keeping the levies ) .Funny tidbit : the SGAE used to claim that Linux was a shareware version of UNIX on their glossary page .
They later " fixed " it by lifting a paragraph from Wikipedia , in violation of the GFDL .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A few notes for those not aware of how things have been going around here lately (I'm Spanish): The current Spanish government is in bed with the local equivalent of the MAFIAA (the SGAE).Downloading copyrighted audio/video works is legal in spain, as long as no profit is made (this does not apply to software).
Whether uploading is legal or not (or how illegal it is) is somewhat debated.
There have been plenty of people "turning themselves" in for downloading, with no arrests made.To offset the legal downloads, just about everything relevant to copying has a levy on it, including writable optical media (the levies there are ridiculous), but also the writers, hard drives, USB sticks, MP3 players, cellphones, printers, scanners, photocopiers, etc.
For example, you're paying the SGAE €12 for each hard drive, except for those bundled as master drives on new systems.
These profits are then theoretically distributed by the SGAE to artists in highly controversial ways.Nonetheless, there is constant FUD claiming that "pirating" music and movies is illegal and will get you jailed (there are some pretty ridiculous advertising campaigns by the SGAE)The SGAE is nothing new, they're the usual corrupt mafia-like organization that you'd expect.
They're just trying to screw over both consumers and artists as much as they can.
They'd love to have it both ways (making downloads illegal and keeping the levies).Funny tidbit: the SGAE used to claim that Linux was a shareware version of UNIX on their glossary page.
They later "fixed" it by lifting a paragraph from Wikipedia, in violation of the GFDL.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30323434</id>
	<title>Re:Duh.</title>
	<author>GooberToo</author>
	<datestamp>1259940600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Nonetheless, there is constant FUD claiming that "pirating" music and movies is illegal and will get you jailed (there are some pretty ridiculous advertising campaigns by the SGAE)</p></div><p>I'd say it cuts both ways. Every time this subject comes up the only real FUD I constantly read is how evil people are for wanting to be compensated for their work. They then turn around and complain about not being fairly compensated by their employer. Pot, kettle, pirates. Go figure.</p><p>Ultimately, piracy translates into loss of income for someone. And contrary to pirate's popular myth, its not always multinational, multi billion dollar companies. Many photographers, artists, writers, and developers are as small as one man shops. At the end of the day, piracy is literally preventing a profit or putting companies (as in people) out of business.</p><p>If you pirate anything, I also presume you never accept payment for *any* work you do - otherwise you'd be a huge jackass and hypocrite. And of course, stealing stocks and bonds is also okay in your book, as is counterfeiting. Until people realize piracy is hurting businesses (that's people people!), they are forcing the creation of the only option businesses have - to raise the bar by making theft more painful. I'm not saying I agree with the bill - I don't - but what do you expect when you steal more than a mugger in Time Square. Get it through your thick heads, stealing is not helping anyone but you, the pirate, and it hurts everyone else that matters. Just like insurance fraud and shop lifting, we all pay higher prices because of piracy.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nonetheless , there is constant FUD claiming that " pirating " music and movies is illegal and will get you jailed ( there are some pretty ridiculous advertising campaigns by the SGAE ) I 'd say it cuts both ways .
Every time this subject comes up the only real FUD I constantly read is how evil people are for wanting to be compensated for their work .
They then turn around and complain about not being fairly compensated by their employer .
Pot , kettle , pirates .
Go figure.Ultimately , piracy translates into loss of income for someone .
And contrary to pirate 's popular myth , its not always multinational , multi billion dollar companies .
Many photographers , artists , writers , and developers are as small as one man shops .
At the end of the day , piracy is literally preventing a profit or putting companies ( as in people ) out of business.If you pirate anything , I also presume you never accept payment for * any * work you do - otherwise you 'd be a huge jackass and hypocrite .
And of course , stealing stocks and bonds is also okay in your book , as is counterfeiting .
Until people realize piracy is hurting businesses ( that 's people people !
) , they are forcing the creation of the only option businesses have - to raise the bar by making theft more painful .
I 'm not saying I agree with the bill - I do n't - but what do you expect when you steal more than a mugger in Time Square .
Get it through your thick heads , stealing is not helping anyone but you , the pirate , and it hurts everyone else that matters .
Just like insurance fraud and shop lifting , we all pay higher prices because of piracy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nonetheless, there is constant FUD claiming that "pirating" music and movies is illegal and will get you jailed (there are some pretty ridiculous advertising campaigns by the SGAE)I'd say it cuts both ways.
Every time this subject comes up the only real FUD I constantly read is how evil people are for wanting to be compensated for their work.
They then turn around and complain about not being fairly compensated by their employer.
Pot, kettle, pirates.
Go figure.Ultimately, piracy translates into loss of income for someone.
And contrary to pirate's popular myth, its not always multinational, multi billion dollar companies.
Many photographers, artists, writers, and developers are as small as one man shops.
At the end of the day, piracy is literally preventing a profit or putting companies (as in people) out of business.If you pirate anything, I also presume you never accept payment for *any* work you do - otherwise you'd be a huge jackass and hypocrite.
And of course, stealing stocks and bonds is also okay in your book, as is counterfeiting.
Until people realize piracy is hurting businesses (that's people people!
), they are forcing the creation of the only option businesses have - to raise the bar by making theft more painful.
I'm not saying I agree with the bill - I don't - but what do you expect when you steal more than a mugger in Time Square.
Get it through your thick heads, stealing is not helping anyone but you, the pirate, and it hurts everyone else that matters.
Just like insurance fraud and shop lifting, we all pay higher prices because of piracy.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322150</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322720</id>
	<title>Re:If forsee a big rise in..</title>
	<author>who knows my name</author>
	<datestamp>1259935200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't count on Gibraltar, I'm sure the UK government would apply significant pressure to them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't count on Gibraltar , I 'm sure the UK government would apply significant pressure to them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't count on Gibraltar, I'm sure the UK government would apply significant pressure to them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322336</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322882</id>
	<title>Ob python</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259936580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30332154</id>
	<title>Re:he said</title>
	<author>Mashiki</author>
	<datestamp>1259941920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well you could help by running a TOR node.  I do, do you?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well you could help by running a TOR node .
I do , do you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well you could help by running a TOR node.
I do, do you?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322396</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322774</id>
	<title>Re:Duh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259935500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Downloading copyrighted audio/video works is legal in spain, as long as no profit is made</p></div><p>That's not quite true. It's not exactly legal nor illegal, in any case there are no enforceable consequences on doing so. Unfortunately our government is so weak loads of interest groups have lots of leverage on it, including SGAE yes but also independentist political parties. The ministers are notoriously incompetent, especially the newly appointed culture ministry. Worth noting the minister is a movie director and has many ties on different pressure groups linked in one way or another to the SGAE.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Downloading copyrighted audio/video works is legal in spain , as long as no profit is madeThat 's not quite true .
It 's not exactly legal nor illegal , in any case there are no enforceable consequences on doing so .
Unfortunately our government is so weak loads of interest groups have lots of leverage on it , including SGAE yes but also independentist political parties .
The ministers are notoriously incompetent , especially the newly appointed culture ministry .
Worth noting the minister is a movie director and has many ties on different pressure groups linked in one way or another to the SGAE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Downloading copyrighted audio/video works is legal in spain, as long as no profit is madeThat's not quite true.
It's not exactly legal nor illegal, in any case there are no enforceable consequences on doing so.
Unfortunately our government is so weak loads of interest groups have lots of leverage on it, including SGAE yes but also independentist political parties.
The ministers are notoriously incompetent, especially the newly appointed culture ministry.
Worth noting the minister is a movie director and has many ties on different pressure groups linked in one way or another to the SGAE.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322150</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30323020</id>
	<title>Re:Update: President Rodriguez Zapatero reactions</title>
	<author>IndustrialComplex</author>
	<datestamp>1259937960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of what worth is his word?</p><p>Never trust a law to not permit something if it doesn't forbid it.  If it grants someone the power to do something, even if they have no intention of using it, they will use it eventually.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of what worth is his word ? Never trust a law to not permit something if it does n't forbid it .
If it grants someone the power to do something , even if they have no intention of using it , they will use it eventually .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of what worth is his word?Never trust a law to not permit something if it doesn't forbid it.
If it grants someone the power to do something, even if they have no intention of using it, they will use it eventually.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322452</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30323810</id>
	<title>Re:The Web Has Changed</title>
	<author>openfrog</author>
	<datestamp>1259942640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with you on the idea of not ceding to pessimism as the parent does.</p><p>However, another point needs to be made about the parent:</p><p>Looking at things from a different angle, you can analyze the present claim grabbing behavior of copyright lobbies to the behavior of companies in unregulated new markets, like railroad, telegraph, etc. Unregulated wild wests where the market can't play its role and where you get monopolies, intimidation, arrested innovation, economic stagnation, government corruption, etc. Quite an unruly state of things.</p><p>So it is the copyright lobby and the inadapted organizations backing it acting in an unruly fashion here, not the citizens.</p><p>So the governments of the civilized world can pretty well see where their interests lie in this battle.</p><p>The manifesto is wonderfully well worded to put things in this perspective for the hard to hear average political representative, and for alerting public opinion as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with you on the idea of not ceding to pessimism as the parent does.However , another point needs to be made about the parent : Looking at things from a different angle , you can analyze the present claim grabbing behavior of copyright lobbies to the behavior of companies in unregulated new markets , like railroad , telegraph , etc .
Unregulated wild wests where the market ca n't play its role and where you get monopolies , intimidation , arrested innovation , economic stagnation , government corruption , etc .
Quite an unruly state of things.So it is the copyright lobby and the inadapted organizations backing it acting in an unruly fashion here , not the citizens.So the governments of the civilized world can pretty well see where their interests lie in this battle.The manifesto is wonderfully well worded to put things in this perspective for the hard to hear average political representative , and for alerting public opinion as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with you on the idea of not ceding to pessimism as the parent does.However, another point needs to be made about the parent:Looking at things from a different angle, you can analyze the present claim grabbing behavior of copyright lobbies to the behavior of companies in unregulated new markets, like railroad, telegraph, etc.
Unregulated wild wests where the market can't play its role and where you get monopolies, intimidation, arrested innovation, economic stagnation, government corruption, etc.
Quite an unruly state of things.So it is the copyright lobby and the inadapted organizations backing it acting in an unruly fashion here, not the citizens.So the governments of the civilized world can pretty well see where their interests lie in this battle.The manifesto is wonderfully well worded to put things in this perspective for the hard to hear average political representative, and for alerting public opinion as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322424</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322434</id>
	<title>Now, I will admit that I just woke up.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259929920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But did anyone else read that as "but [the government] still will search for ways to fight Internet privacy"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But did anyone else read that as " but [ the government ] still will search for ways to fight Internet privacy " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But did anyone else read that as "but [the government] still will search for ways to fight Internet privacy"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30324154</id>
	<title>Re:Duh.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259944440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Then you're misunderstanding it. The problem is not compensating anyone for their work, the problem is compensating them for nothing (in Spain, the compensation is paid both if you make copies of copyrighted works and if you don't, it's also paid multiple times for the same copy, and it's split among authors in a rather questionable fashion) while being insulted (the authors, and you as well, call us pirates despite the fact that we are not so since we're doing nothing illegal) and seeing how they attempt to reduce our rights and freedoms.</p><p>BTW, what you (incorrectly in this case) call "piracy" does not necessarily equal loss of income (in fact there are several studies that suggest the exact opposite), and loss of income does not necessarily equal prevention of profit or putting anything out of business. But even if it did, it's not really our concern. Or should we put a levy on flour just in case we use it to make our own bread, in order to prevent bread makers from losing income? If your business model is outdated and as a result of that you lose money, you have two choices: either you quit (or not, but eventually disappear because you don't offer anything interesting enough), or you adapt your business to reality.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then you 're misunderstanding it .
The problem is not compensating anyone for their work , the problem is compensating them for nothing ( in Spain , the compensation is paid both if you make copies of copyrighted works and if you do n't , it 's also paid multiple times for the same copy , and it 's split among authors in a rather questionable fashion ) while being insulted ( the authors , and you as well , call us pirates despite the fact that we are not so since we 're doing nothing illegal ) and seeing how they attempt to reduce our rights and freedoms.BTW , what you ( incorrectly in this case ) call " piracy " does not necessarily equal loss of income ( in fact there are several studies that suggest the exact opposite ) , and loss of income does not necessarily equal prevention of profit or putting anything out of business .
But even if it did , it 's not really our concern .
Or should we put a levy on flour just in case we use it to make our own bread , in order to prevent bread makers from losing income ?
If your business model is outdated and as a result of that you lose money , you have two choices : either you quit ( or not , but eventually disappear because you do n't offer anything interesting enough ) , or you adapt your business to reality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then you're misunderstanding it.
The problem is not compensating anyone for their work, the problem is compensating them for nothing (in Spain, the compensation is paid both if you make copies of copyrighted works and if you don't, it's also paid multiple times for the same copy, and it's split among authors in a rather questionable fashion) while being insulted (the authors, and you as well, call us pirates despite the fact that we are not so since we're doing nothing illegal) and seeing how they attempt to reduce our rights and freedoms.BTW, what you (incorrectly in this case) call "piracy" does not necessarily equal loss of income (in fact there are several studies that suggest the exact opposite), and loss of income does not necessarily equal prevention of profit or putting anything out of business.
But even if it did, it's not really our concern.
Or should we put a levy on flour just in case we use it to make our own bread, in order to prevent bread makers from losing income?
If your business model is outdated and as a result of that you lose money, you have two choices: either you quit (or not, but eventually disappear because you don't offer anything interesting enough), or you adapt your business to reality.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30323434</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322112</id>
	<title>hey!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259923560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>first pirate here!</htmltext>
<tokenext>first pirate here !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>first pirate here!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322518</id>
	<title>Re:Wellcome to China.</title>
	<author>MartinSchou</author>
	<datestamp>1259931780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Comparing China with Spain is madness.</p></div></blockquote><p>Apparently the representative of the ministry doesn't think so.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Comparing China with Spain is madness.Apparently the representative of the ministry does n't think so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Comparing China with Spain is madness.Apparently the representative of the ministry doesn't think so.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322188</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322336</id>
	<title>If forsee a big rise in..</title>
	<author>RotateLeftByte</author>
	<datestamp>1259928120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Domains registered in</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Andorra<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Gibraltar</p><p>If this goes through.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Domains registered in     Andorra     GibraltarIf this goes through .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Domains registered in
    Andorra
    GibraltarIf this goes through.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322486</id>
	<title>Chewbacca laws</title>
	<author>puefale</author>
	<datestamp>1259931060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I realized that Spanish goverment is using the same principle as <a href="http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103454" title="southparkstudios.com" rel="nofollow">Chewabacca defense</a> [southparkstudios.com] on laws, we are having a lot of these <a href="http://translate.google.es/translate?hl=es&amp;sl=es&amp;tl=en&amp;u=http\%3A\%2F\%2Fbarrapunto.com\%2Fcomments.pl\%3Fsid\%3D82588\%26cid\%3D1188025" title="google.es" rel="nofollow">Chewbacca laws</a> [google.es] in last years<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.<br>
It's high risk political practice, even some electors dead by head implosion...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I realized that Spanish goverment is using the same principle as Chewabacca defense [ southparkstudios.com ] on laws , we are having a lot of these Chewbacca laws [ google.es ] in last years .
It 's high risk political practice , even some electors dead by head implosion.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I realized that Spanish goverment is using the same principle as Chewabacca defense [southparkstudios.com] on laws, we are having a lot of these Chewbacca laws [google.es] in last years .
It's high risk political practice, even some electors dead by head implosion...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322462</id>
	<title>removing judges...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259930460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The sad thing is.. some journalists are now saying internet users are basically zealots because we are still angry when the government has already said that the law isn't intended for harming users or bloggers, only those who make profit in their pages with p2p links...</p><p>Of course, they have said that, but the text in the law doesn't specify that, and that's the only thing that matters. The law explicitly allows for a comission to shut down any page they consider violating copyright.. isn't that the main argument of the scientology church in the USA for their censorship? and in this case is even worse, because at least the Scientology needs a judge for that. It doesn't matter what they say, it's what is written in the law that matters.</p><p>Also, the SGAE has been suing users and webmasters for years and at the moment they have lost all p2p cases, because the judges consider sharing links is completely legal. There has been just one case where the acussed admitted guilty as an agreement with SGAE, because they told him they just wanted something like a win for the press, and asked him for about 100 euros. He could have won, but he was just a student and didn't want to mess with the shitty legal system.</p><p>Few weeks ago SGAE ordered to close a site that shared music e-links. The judge closed it without even tell anything to the webmaster, who was notified only when he saw his page blocked. The webmaster protested and now the judge has ordered to re-open the page and to fine SGAE for all processal costs and an aditional fine for "bad faith".</p><p>So, they want to make a committee for closing sites the judges don't want to close...</p><p>(sorry if my english is pretty bad... in spain we are pretty bad learning other languages)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The sad thing is.. some journalists are now saying internet users are basically zealots because we are still angry when the government has already said that the law is n't intended for harming users or bloggers , only those who make profit in their pages with p2p links...Of course , they have said that , but the text in the law does n't specify that , and that 's the only thing that matters .
The law explicitly allows for a comission to shut down any page they consider violating copyright.. is n't that the main argument of the scientology church in the USA for their censorship ?
and in this case is even worse , because at least the Scientology needs a judge for that .
It does n't matter what they say , it 's what is written in the law that matters.Also , the SGAE has been suing users and webmasters for years and at the moment they have lost all p2p cases , because the judges consider sharing links is completely legal .
There has been just one case where the acussed admitted guilty as an agreement with SGAE , because they told him they just wanted something like a win for the press , and asked him for about 100 euros .
He could have won , but he was just a student and did n't want to mess with the shitty legal system.Few weeks ago SGAE ordered to close a site that shared music e-links .
The judge closed it without even tell anything to the webmaster , who was notified only when he saw his page blocked .
The webmaster protested and now the judge has ordered to re-open the page and to fine SGAE for all processal costs and an aditional fine for " bad faith " .So , they want to make a committee for closing sites the judges do n't want to close... ( sorry if my english is pretty bad... in spain we are pretty bad learning other languages )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The sad thing is.. some journalists are now saying internet users are basically zealots because we are still angry when the government has already said that the law isn't intended for harming users or bloggers, only those who make profit in their pages with p2p links...Of course, they have said that, but the text in the law doesn't specify that, and that's the only thing that matters.
The law explicitly allows for a comission to shut down any page they consider violating copyright.. isn't that the main argument of the scientology church in the USA for their censorship?
and in this case is even worse, because at least the Scientology needs a judge for that.
It doesn't matter what they say, it's what is written in the law that matters.Also, the SGAE has been suing users and webmasters for years and at the moment they have lost all p2p cases, because the judges consider sharing links is completely legal.
There has been just one case where the acussed admitted guilty as an agreement with SGAE, because they told him they just wanted something like a win for the press, and asked him for about 100 euros.
He could have won, but he was just a student and didn't want to mess with the shitty legal system.Few weeks ago SGAE ordered to close a site that shared music e-links.
The judge closed it without even tell anything to the webmaster, who was notified only when he saw his page blocked.
The webmaster protested and now the judge has ordered to re-open the page and to fine SGAE for all processal costs and an aditional fine for "bad faith".So, they want to make a committee for closing sites the judges don't want to close...(sorry if my english is pretty bad... in spain we are pretty bad learning other languages)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322870</id>
	<title>Re:The Web Has Changed</title>
	<author>commodore64\_love</author>
	<datestamp>1259936460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;&gt;the majority of new internet technologies and sites are controlled by a smaller number of huge companies like Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc. What's your hompage right now, and how do you find your way to sites?</p><p>My home page is blank.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; &gt; the majority of new internet technologies and sites are controlled by a smaller number of huge companies like Google , Microsoft , Facebook , etc .
What 's your hompage right now , and how do you find your way to sites ? My home page is blank .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;&gt;the majority of new internet technologies and sites are controlled by a smaller number of huge companies like Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc.
What's your hompage right now, and how do you find your way to sites?My home page is blank.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322452</id>
	<title>Update: President Rodriguez Zapatero reactions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259930280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everything in the timeline is correct, but <a href="http://www.muycomputer.com/Actualidad/Noticias/Zapatero-desautoriza-a-Sinde/\_wE9ERk2XxDAmrnzqzDCgBJC4l0G7ykc4nmBV73p6jMNJuY\_qMZJS7GV9EJ-gDUMC" title="muycomputer.com" rel="nofollow">there's an important update</a> [muycomputer.com]. </p><p>Spain's President, Jos&#233; Luis Rodr&#237;guez Zapatero, has guaranteed that <em>"nothing is going to be closed"</em> in Internet. <em>"No webpage, no blog"</em>, in a recent press conference in the Palacio de la Moncloa.

<em>"If (the draft for the Sustainable Economy Act) has been interpreted as if there is a chance to close the sites on the Internet, <b>I say from now on: under no circumstances will be this possible".</b> </em> </p><p>

The report in english, <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&amp;sl=es&amp;tl=it&amp;u=http\%3A\%2F\%2Fwww.muycomputer.com\%2FActualidad\%2FNoticias\%2FZapatero-desautoriza-a-Sinde\%2F\_wE9ERk2XxDAmrnzqzDCgBJC4l0G7ykc4nmBV73p6jMNJuY\_qMZJS7GV9EJ-gDUMC" title="google.com" rel="nofollow">translated by Google</a> [google.com].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everything in the timeline is correct , but there 's an important update [ muycomputer.com ] .
Spain 's President , Jos   Luis Rodr   guez Zapatero , has guaranteed that " nothing is going to be closed " in Internet .
" No webpage , no blog " , in a recent press conference in the Palacio de la Moncloa .
" If ( the draft for the Sustainable Economy Act ) has been interpreted as if there is a chance to close the sites on the Internet , I say from now on : under no circumstances will be this possible " .
The report in english , translated by Google [ google.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everything in the timeline is correct, but there's an important update [muycomputer.com].
Spain's President, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, has guaranteed that "nothing is going to be closed" in Internet.
"No webpage, no blog", in a recent press conference in the Palacio de la Moncloa.
"If (the draft for the Sustainable Economy Act) has been interpreted as if there is a chance to close the sites on the Internet, I say from now on: under no circumstances will be this possible".
The report in english, translated by Google [google.com].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322554</id>
	<title>Hmm...</title>
	<author>T Murphy</author>
	<datestamp>1259932560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> a Commission dependent of the Ministry of Culture to take down websites without a court order, in cases of Intellectual Property piracy.</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p> Quickly, more than 50,000 blogs and sites re-published the manifesto</p></div><p>Such a waste of potential irony.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>a Commission dependent of the Ministry of Culture to take down websites without a court order , in cases of Intellectual Property piracy .
Quickly , more than 50,000 blogs and sites re-published the manifestoSuch a waste of potential irony .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> a Commission dependent of the Ministry of Culture to take down websites without a court order, in cases of Intellectual Property piracy.
Quickly, more than 50,000 blogs and sites re-published the manifestoSuch a waste of potential irony.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30326890</id>
	<title>Re:If forsee a big rise in..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259955840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>dude the Spanish gov has no power over domains registered in Gibraltar. It might affect people in Gibraltar if sites were blocked by ISP's because most packets have to hop through Spain to get to Gib.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>dude the Spanish gov has no power over domains registered in Gibraltar .
It might affect people in Gibraltar if sites were blocked by ISP 's because most packets have to hop through Spain to get to Gib .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>dude the Spanish gov has no power over domains registered in Gibraltar.
It might affect people in Gibraltar if sites were blocked by ISP's because most packets have to hop through Spain to get to Gib.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322336</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322834</id>
	<title>Re:he said</title>
	<author>Xeriar</author>
	<datestamp>1259935980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>i know that i matter. that you believe you don't matter is your own intellectual failure, not mine, and your resignation to your self-imposed helplessness is a resignation that only affects your sorry ass, and has no bearing on my rights and abilities as a free man of a liberal western democracy, which i fully comprehend, appreciate, enjoy, and practice. if my society fails into fascism, it will be no fault of mine, but by the unfortunate proliferation of weak spineless pessimistic fools like yourself who have already given up before any battle has even been fought</i></p><p>I would offer a correction. -You- don't matter. Your friends, connections, and the relationships you have built matters quite a lot. The article demonstrates that rather well - a lot of attention was generated very quickly. Never fight alone. More of the world is with you than you think.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i know that i matter .
that you believe you do n't matter is your own intellectual failure , not mine , and your resignation to your self-imposed helplessness is a resignation that only affects your sorry ass , and has no bearing on my rights and abilities as a free man of a liberal western democracy , which i fully comprehend , appreciate , enjoy , and practice .
if my society fails into fascism , it will be no fault of mine , but by the unfortunate proliferation of weak spineless pessimistic fools like yourself who have already given up before any battle has even been foughtI would offer a correction .
-You- do n't matter .
Your friends , connections , and the relationships you have built matters quite a lot .
The article demonstrates that rather well - a lot of attention was generated very quickly .
Never fight alone .
More of the world is with you than you think .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i know that i matter.
that you believe you don't matter is your own intellectual failure, not mine, and your resignation to your self-imposed helplessness is a resignation that only affects your sorry ass, and has no bearing on my rights and abilities as a free man of a liberal western democracy, which i fully comprehend, appreciate, enjoy, and practice.
if my society fails into fascism, it will be no fault of mine, but by the unfortunate proliferation of weak spineless pessimistic fools like yourself who have already given up before any battle has even been foughtI would offer a correction.
-You- don't matter.
Your friends, connections, and the relationships you have built matters quite a lot.
The article demonstrates that rather well - a lot of attention was generated very quickly.
Never fight alone.
More of the world is with you than you think.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322396</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322156</id>
	<title>Re:Joer, t&#237;o!</title>
	<author>gerddie</author>
	<datestamp>1259924520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They still are, generally (Rounding three years in Madrid quite soon) - Lately a judge decided that <a href="http://torrentfreak.com/judge-rules-p2p-legal-sites-to-be-presumed-innocent-090707/" title="torrentfreak.com">P2P sites are okay</a> [torrentfreak.com] for private sharing. However, the government tries to slip in above kind of Internet law ruling for quite some time now, it is not the first time and sure it will be not the last time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They still are , generally ( Rounding three years in Madrid quite soon ) - Lately a judge decided that P2P sites are okay [ torrentfreak.com ] for private sharing .
However , the government tries to slip in above kind of Internet law ruling for quite some time now , it is not the first time and sure it will be not the last time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They still are, generally (Rounding three years in Madrid quite soon) - Lately a judge decided that P2P sites are okay [torrentfreak.com] for private sharing.
However, the government tries to slip in above kind of Internet law ruling for quite some time now, it is not the first time and sure it will be not the last time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322120</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30338666</id>
	<title>Re:The Web Has Changed</title>
	<author>Tuareg</author>
	<datestamp>1260010920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am from Spain and almost 50 by now. I bought my fist personal computer (an Amstrad) back in the mid 80s, and I use internet everyday since the beginning of the 90s. I'm afraid I am not yet "technically savvy" (I have devoted my professional life to law and humanities). Probably it is my problem, but I think it is starting to be the technically savvy's problem as well.

For a person not very keen on technical issues, but worried about privacy or security, there has only been two main roads open: Mac (my option), a fools-proof system but quite expensive and propietary, or Linux, which only recently  created systems apt for anyone, like Ubuntu, but is still more difficult to use than Mac if you intend to do anything else but web browsing and checking your mail.

Sourceforge is in fact a mine of wonderful software, but I have forgotten how many times I have downloaded something that interested me a lot, but had to finally give up because it was so complicated to compile, re-compile, install, uninstall, dissemble and decode that I lost my spirit.

For a long time, hackers and other savvy people have done invaluable work for the benefit of the community, and many of us have profited from it. But there has been as well a tendency to paternally despise those unsavvy users as minors;  so many pieces of important software have gone around without anything remotely resembling an autoinstaller or a GUI for grannies (too boring a task).

Up to now it was on the unsavvy's detriment. In the near future it will go on everyone's detriment. The only possible solution I can reasonably foresee is the creation of a large scale decentralized net of computers talking to each other under very heavy cryptographic algorithms. Something like the Tor-Onion solution, but very, very easy to (auto)install, (auto)configure and use, and allowing faster speeds.

Should it become a trivial item to use on your computer, like PC's antivirus, it would help to solve or at least alleviate, some of the main threats now confronting internet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am from Spain and almost 50 by now .
I bought my fist personal computer ( an Amstrad ) back in the mid 80s , and I use internet everyday since the beginning of the 90s .
I 'm afraid I am not yet " technically savvy " ( I have devoted my professional life to law and humanities ) .
Probably it is my problem , but I think it is starting to be the technically savvy 's problem as well .
For a person not very keen on technical issues , but worried about privacy or security , there has only been two main roads open : Mac ( my option ) , a fools-proof system but quite expensive and propietary , or Linux , which only recently created systems apt for anyone , like Ubuntu , but is still more difficult to use than Mac if you intend to do anything else but web browsing and checking your mail .
Sourceforge is in fact a mine of wonderful software , but I have forgotten how many times I have downloaded something that interested me a lot , but had to finally give up because it was so complicated to compile , re-compile , install , uninstall , dissemble and decode that I lost my spirit .
For a long time , hackers and other savvy people have done invaluable work for the benefit of the community , and many of us have profited from it .
But there has been as well a tendency to paternally despise those unsavvy users as minors ; so many pieces of important software have gone around without anything remotely resembling an autoinstaller or a GUI for grannies ( too boring a task ) .
Up to now it was on the unsavvy 's detriment .
In the near future it will go on everyone 's detriment .
The only possible solution I can reasonably foresee is the creation of a large scale decentralized net of computers talking to each other under very heavy cryptographic algorithms .
Something like the Tor-Onion solution , but very , very easy to ( auto ) install , ( auto ) configure and use , and allowing faster speeds .
Should it become a trivial item to use on your computer , like PC 's antivirus , it would help to solve or at least alleviate , some of the main threats now confronting internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am from Spain and almost 50 by now.
I bought my fist personal computer (an Amstrad) back in the mid 80s, and I use internet everyday since the beginning of the 90s.
I'm afraid I am not yet "technically savvy" (I have devoted my professional life to law and humanities).
Probably it is my problem, but I think it is starting to be the technically savvy's problem as well.
For a person not very keen on technical issues, but worried about privacy or security, there has only been two main roads open: Mac (my option), a fools-proof system but quite expensive and propietary, or Linux, which only recently  created systems apt for anyone, like Ubuntu, but is still more difficult to use than Mac if you intend to do anything else but web browsing and checking your mail.
Sourceforge is in fact a mine of wonderful software, but I have forgotten how many times I have downloaded something that interested me a lot, but had to finally give up because it was so complicated to compile, re-compile, install, uninstall, dissemble and decode that I lost my spirit.
For a long time, hackers and other savvy people have done invaluable work for the benefit of the community, and many of us have profited from it.
But there has been as well a tendency to paternally despise those unsavvy users as minors;  so many pieces of important software have gone around without anything remotely resembling an autoinstaller or a GUI for grannies (too boring a task).
Up to now it was on the unsavvy's detriment.
In the near future it will go on everyone's detriment.
The only possible solution I can reasonably foresee is the creation of a large scale decentralized net of computers talking to each other under very heavy cryptographic algorithms.
Something like the Tor-Onion solution, but very, very easy to (auto)install, (auto)configure and use, and allowing faster speeds.
Should it become a trivial item to use on your computer, like PC's antivirus, it would help to solve or at least alleviate, some of the main threats now confronting internet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322310</id>
	<title>Re:The Web Has Changed</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259927520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So what is this? A struggle between good and evil? I hear a lot of folks talking about (including me) how the internet is becoming less free. How we place all of our information in trust on corporate servers. And this seems not to be of a national issue but something that effects everyone in all countries.</p><p>So what's the solution to this? Isn't the only solution to shift the evolution of technology from corporations back to the people (hackers?).</p><p>I believe this is an issue of management and leadership. Maybe the corporations are better at motivating and leading people and as such are better equipped to develop our future technology, even if that technology isn't what's best for mankind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So what is this ?
A struggle between good and evil ?
I hear a lot of folks talking about ( including me ) how the internet is becoming less free .
How we place all of our information in trust on corporate servers .
And this seems not to be of a national issue but something that effects everyone in all countries.So what 's the solution to this ?
Is n't the only solution to shift the evolution of technology from corporations back to the people ( hackers ?
) .I believe this is an issue of management and leadership .
Maybe the corporations are better at motivating and leading people and as such are better equipped to develop our future technology , even if that technology is n't what 's best for mankind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what is this?
A struggle between good and evil?
I hear a lot of folks talking about (including me) how the internet is becoming less free.
How we place all of our information in trust on corporate servers.
And this seems not to be of a national issue but something that effects everyone in all countries.So what's the solution to this?
Isn't the only solution to shift the evolution of technology from corporations back to the people (hackers?
).I believe this is an issue of management and leadership.
Maybe the corporations are better at motivating and leading people and as such are better equipped to develop our future technology, even if that technology isn't what's best for mankind.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322144</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30323088</id>
	<title>Re:Joer, t&#237;o!</title>
	<author>b4upoo</author>
	<datestamp>1259938380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>          It's lovely that governments are so eager to fight but guess who pays for the boxing gloves. Continuing battles generate continuing public expenses. Real economic recovery might involve the idea that issues that do not resolve be kept out of government and the courts unless they really are of vital public interest. We see stem cell issues eating at public taxes. We have seen pornography wasting public money for centuries. In America we see all kinds of time and money occupied with abortion arguments. It is high time for our courts and our legislatures to face the fact that these issues are an endless swamp that we do not need to wade in. In essence one side feels that they must have something and in order to get it they force all of us to pay for their endless whimpering and complaints. They should have been aborted!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's lovely that governments are so eager to fight but guess who pays for the boxing gloves .
Continuing battles generate continuing public expenses .
Real economic recovery might involve the idea that issues that do not resolve be kept out of government and the courts unless they really are of vital public interest .
We see stem cell issues eating at public taxes .
We have seen pornography wasting public money for centuries .
In America we see all kinds of time and money occupied with abortion arguments .
It is high time for our courts and our legislatures to face the fact that these issues are an endless swamp that we do not need to wade in .
In essence one side feels that they must have something and in order to get it they force all of us to pay for their endless whimpering and complaints .
They should have been aborted !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>          It's lovely that governments are so eager to fight but guess who pays for the boxing gloves.
Continuing battles generate continuing public expenses.
Real economic recovery might involve the idea that issues that do not resolve be kept out of government and the courts unless they really are of vital public interest.
We see stem cell issues eating at public taxes.
We have seen pornography wasting public money for centuries.
In America we see all kinds of time and money occupied with abortion arguments.
It is high time for our courts and our legislatures to face the fact that these issues are an endless swamp that we do not need to wade in.
In essence one side feels that they must have something and in order to get it they force all of us to pay for their endless whimpering and complaints.
They should have been aborted!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322324</id>
	<title>Re:The Web Has Changed</title>
	<author>AliasMarlowe</author>
	<datestamp>1259927820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>or even the 1990s, where there were no search engines</p></div><p>Humph, not exactly. I was using Alta Vista and Lycos in the late 1990s, and they were not the first <b>web</b> search engines <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web\_search\_engine" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web\_search\_engine</a> [wikipedia.org]. And before any on that list there was Gopher, which was a hypertext prelude to the web <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher\_(protocol)" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher\_(protocol)</a> [wikipedia.org], and I was using <b>non-web</b> internet search engines such as WAIS <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide\_area\_information\_server" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide\_area\_information\_server</a> [wikipedia.org] in the 1980s, before the web existed. Earlier, it was a pain finding information on internet - somebody had to tell you where to look, and which access method to use (telnet/ftp/etc.).
<br> <br>
But you are right in that search engines are now major portals to internet information, predominantly through web URIs, and that a few such engines dominate search (and hence access to information).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>or even the 1990s , where there were no search enginesHumph , not exactly .
I was using Alta Vista and Lycos in the late 1990s , and they were not the first web search engines http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web \ _search \ _engine [ wikipedia.org ] .
And before any on that list there was Gopher , which was a hypertext prelude to the web http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher \ _ ( protocol ) [ wikipedia.org ] , and I was using non-web internet search engines such as WAIS http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide \ _area \ _information \ _server [ wikipedia.org ] in the 1980s , before the web existed .
Earlier , it was a pain finding information on internet - somebody had to tell you where to look , and which access method to use ( telnet/ftp/etc. ) .
But you are right in that search engines are now major portals to internet information , predominantly through web URIs , and that a few such engines dominate search ( and hence access to information ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>or even the 1990s, where there were no search enginesHumph, not exactly.
I was using Alta Vista and Lycos in the late 1990s, and they were not the first web search engines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web\_search\_engine [wikipedia.org].
And before any on that list there was Gopher, which was a hypertext prelude to the web http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher\_(protocol) [wikipedia.org], and I was using non-web internet search engines such as WAIS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide\_area\_information\_server [wikipedia.org] in the 1980s, before the web existed.
Earlier, it was a pain finding information on internet - somebody had to tell you where to look, and which access method to use (telnet/ftp/etc.).
But you are right in that search engines are now major portals to internet information, predominantly through web URIs, and that a few such engines dominate search (and hence access to information).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_04_038259.30322144</parent>
</comment>
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