<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_03_2236223</id>
	<title>Electric Mini Cooper Has Rough Start</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1259837340000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>TopSpin writes <i>"BMW's limited roll out of the electric version of its Mini has met with <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&amp;sid=aeQwon7TV3Fo">complaints from early adopters</a> including less than advertised range, cold weather charging problems, bulky batteries and connection issues.  Richard Steinburg, BMW's manager of electric vehicle operations, assures everyone that the manufacturer is 'learning quite a bit as we go.'  Drivers are paying $850/month for the privilege of helping BMW learn how to build EVs, while also helping BMW meet alternative fuel mandates so that <a href="http://autos.yahoo.com/2010\_bmw\_m6/">other models</a> can continue to be sold in select markets."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>TopSpin writes " BMW 's limited roll out of the electric version of its Mini has met with complaints from early adopters including less than advertised range , cold weather charging problems , bulky batteries and connection issues .
Richard Steinburg , BMW 's manager of electric vehicle operations , assures everyone that the manufacturer is 'learning quite a bit as we go .
' Drivers are paying $ 850/month for the privilege of helping BMW learn how to build EVs , while also helping BMW meet alternative fuel mandates so that other models can continue to be sold in select markets .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TopSpin writes "BMW's limited roll out of the electric version of its Mini has met with complaints from early adopters including less than advertised range, cold weather charging problems, bulky batteries and connection issues.
Richard Steinburg, BMW's manager of electric vehicle operations, assures everyone that the manufacturer is 'learning quite a bit as we go.
'  Drivers are paying $850/month for the privilege of helping BMW learn how to build EVs, while also helping BMW meet alternative fuel mandates so that other models can continue to be sold in select markets.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319058</id>
	<title>Re:Why?</title>
	<author>IpSo\_</author>
	<datestamp>1259846460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I watched the video and the BMW was driven BEHIND the Prius at "speeds as fast as possible".</p><p>I think that favors the BMW significantly considering the how close the BMW was driven behind the Prius, the Prius was doing most of the work pushing the air out of the way for it.</p><p>What a horrible test on so many levels, its completely useless to base anything on it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I watched the video and the BMW was driven BEHIND the Prius at " speeds as fast as possible " .I think that favors the BMW significantly considering the how close the BMW was driven behind the Prius , the Prius was doing most of the work pushing the air out of the way for it.What a horrible test on so many levels , its completely useless to base anything on it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I watched the video and the BMW was driven BEHIND the Prius at "speeds as fast as possible".I think that favors the BMW significantly considering the how close the BMW was driven behind the Prius, the Prius was doing most of the work pushing the air out of the way for it.What a horrible test on so many levels, its completely useless to base anything on it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318124</id>
	<title>Re:Electric car with problems?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259841720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>O RLY? The problem is solved? Exactly where can I buy these plant based fuels?</p><p>As the demand for biofuels causes competition with food production resources (land, water),<br>the cost of biofuels goes up. And they're not cheap now!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>O RLY ?
The problem is solved ?
Exactly where can I buy these plant based fuels ? As the demand for biofuels causes competition with food production resources ( land , water ) ,the cost of biofuels goes up .
And they 're not cheap now !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>O RLY?
The problem is solved?
Exactly where can I buy these plant based fuels?As the demand for biofuels causes competition with food production resources (land, water),the cost of biofuels goes up.
And they're not cheap now!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318056</id>
	<title>Electric car with problems?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259841360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Am I the only one who doesn't understand the craze for electric vehilces? The problem is sloved. Just moved.

Biodiesel, ethanol/switchgass, and plant based fuels make so much more sense.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Am I the only one who does n't understand the craze for electric vehilces ?
The problem is sloved .
Just moved .
Biodiesel , ethanol/switchgass , and plant based fuels make so much more sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Am I the only one who doesn't understand the craze for electric vehilces?
The problem is sloved.
Just moved.
Biodiesel, ethanol/switchgass, and plant based fuels make so much more sense.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318706</id>
	<title>Re:$850 a month??</title>
	<author>Idiomatick</author>
	<datestamp>1259844480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Pretty sure that when you say green fashion you really mean: All forms of new technology and products</htmltext>
<tokenext>Pretty sure that when you say green fashion you really mean : All forms of new technology and products</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pretty sure that when you say green fashion you really mean: All forms of new technology and products</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30320646</id>
	<title>Quickdrop compatibility is key to my consumer $$$</title>
	<author>MikShapi</author>
	<datestamp>1259858940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.betterplace.com/" title="betterplace.com">Better Place</a> [betterplace.com] are rolling out here in Australia in two years.</p><p>I can and do maintain one fast car as part of my family's fleet of two (the other is a bush-going family-packing trip-ready diesel 4WD - A Patrol ST - and considering its required dimensions and weight electric is absolutely irrelevant for it for years to come).</p><p>Burning-stuff-wise, my choice for a fast-car/daily-driver is a Mini Cooper S. Handles remarkably and is solid German sports car in disguise.</p><p>But I really really really want to go electric for my daily driver.</p><p>I want the 'I run on the wind' sticker, the instant torque, the 4-year plan that helps subsudise the car. Those I will probably be able to get with any PHEV from Better Place, even if the car is not QuickDrop compatible.</p><p>But I also want quickdrop capability and not to own the bloody battery or ever have to worry about battery wear, replacing it, or its diminishing lifecycle. It's a hassle, a worry I don't need.</p><p>If BMW do what Tesla, Renault and Nissan are doing, withdraw head from rear orifice and make themselves compatible with Better Place batteries and infrastructure, I'll buy a Mini E the day it hits the dealership floor.</p><p>Otherwise I'll hang a Mini E poster on my wall but will be driving a Fluence ZE to work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Better Place [ betterplace.com ] are rolling out here in Australia in two years.I can and do maintain one fast car as part of my family 's fleet of two ( the other is a bush-going family-packing trip-ready diesel 4WD - A Patrol ST - and considering its required dimensions and weight electric is absolutely irrelevant for it for years to come ) .Burning-stuff-wise , my choice for a fast-car/daily-driver is a Mini Cooper S. Handles remarkably and is solid German sports car in disguise.But I really really really want to go electric for my daily driver.I want the 'I run on the wind ' sticker , the instant torque , the 4-year plan that helps subsudise the car .
Those I will probably be able to get with any PHEV from Better Place , even if the car is not QuickDrop compatible.But I also want quickdrop capability and not to own the bloody battery or ever have to worry about battery wear , replacing it , or its diminishing lifecycle .
It 's a hassle , a worry I do n't need.If BMW do what Tesla , Renault and Nissan are doing , withdraw head from rear orifice and make themselves compatible with Better Place batteries and infrastructure , I 'll buy a Mini E the day it hits the dealership floor.Otherwise I 'll hang a Mini E poster on my wall but will be driving a Fluence ZE to work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Better Place [betterplace.com] are rolling out here in Australia in two years.I can and do maintain one fast car as part of my family's fleet of two (the other is a bush-going family-packing trip-ready diesel 4WD - A Patrol ST - and considering its required dimensions and weight electric is absolutely irrelevant for it for years to come).Burning-stuff-wise, my choice for a fast-car/daily-driver is a Mini Cooper S. Handles remarkably and is solid German sports car in disguise.But I really really really want to go electric for my daily driver.I want the 'I run on the wind' sticker, the instant torque, the 4-year plan that helps subsudise the car.
Those I will probably be able to get with any PHEV from Better Place, even if the car is not QuickDrop compatible.But I also want quickdrop capability and not to own the bloody battery or ever have to worry about battery wear, replacing it, or its diminishing lifecycle.
It's a hassle, a worry I don't need.If BMW do what Tesla, Renault and Nissan are doing, withdraw head from rear orifice and make themselves compatible with Better Place batteries and infrastructure, I'll buy a Mini E the day it hits the dealership floor.Otherwise I'll hang a Mini E poster on my wall but will be driving a Fluence ZE to work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319122</id>
	<title>Re:Diesels</title>
	<author>Chirs</author>
	<datestamp>1259846700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Diesel engines cost more.  North American consumers aren't generally willing to pay a few thousand dollars more for a diesel engine.</p><p>Europeans are.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Diesel engines cost more .
North American consumers are n't generally willing to pay a few thousand dollars more for a diesel engine.Europeans are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Diesel engines cost more.
North American consumers aren't generally willing to pay a few thousand dollars more for a diesel engine.Europeans are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30317978</id>
	<title>fp</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259841000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>it's a celebration, bitches!</htmltext>
<tokenext>it 's a celebration , bitches !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it's a celebration, bitches!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30320994</id>
	<title>Re:Why?</title>
	<author>Cassini2</author>
	<datestamp>1259862960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>It was designed to drive at speeds commonly used by commuters.</p></div></blockquote><p>No one anywhere designs a car for optimal commuter use.  They design it to get the lowest possible score on the EPA tests.  They even have special setup procedures, driving procedures, and dynos to ensure the cars will get the lowest possible EPA test scores.  Notably, the highway test is done at 90 km/h (about 55 mph), however most states have 70 mph speed limits, and people speed.  In Ontario, the speed limit is 100 km/h, and average traffic speed is 112 km/h.  The cars perform optimally at 90 km/h because that is the speed of the test.
</p><p>Cars are explicitly designed to only pass the EPA test.  My Saturn immediately consumes more gas as soon as the temperature drops below a certain level.  I think the ECM has an algorithm to the effect of: "if the temperature less than 5 degrees Celsius, then switch to richer fuel mixture."  The manufacturers blatantly ignore fuel economy at low temperatures, because there is no EPA test for it.
</p><p>It is well known in automotive circles that it is almost impossible to drive a modern car in a manner that meets the fuel economy specifications on the EPA tests.  The local car salesman states it as: "Fuel economy is guaranteed to never exceed the EPA ratings."  Informally, dealers know  never comment about real-world fuel consumption and EPA ratings, as you could get stuffed with a false advertising lawsuit.  If the customer has a lead foot, then they won't reach the EPA test numbers.  Additionally, no warning lights are present on cars to warn drivers of poor driving habits.  Finally, there are many variations in car equipment, and even inside the manufacturing tolerances of the components inside the engine.  It is quite likely that some cars will never be reach the EPA fuel economy numbers, even if dynoed on exactly the same equipment, with the same procedures, and following the same EPA mandated calculations.  For instance, I think it is typical that the EPA tests are done with a modified gas tank, and for some vehicles the weight of the combined weight of the gas and driver would influence the test results.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It was designed to drive at speeds commonly used by commuters.No one anywhere designs a car for optimal commuter use .
They design it to get the lowest possible score on the EPA tests .
They even have special setup procedures , driving procedures , and dynos to ensure the cars will get the lowest possible EPA test scores .
Notably , the highway test is done at 90 km/h ( about 55 mph ) , however most states have 70 mph speed limits , and people speed .
In Ontario , the speed limit is 100 km/h , and average traffic speed is 112 km/h .
The cars perform optimally at 90 km/h because that is the speed of the test .
Cars are explicitly designed to only pass the EPA test .
My Saturn immediately consumes more gas as soon as the temperature drops below a certain level .
I think the ECM has an algorithm to the effect of : " if the temperature less than 5 degrees Celsius , then switch to richer fuel mixture .
" The manufacturers blatantly ignore fuel economy at low temperatures , because there is no EPA test for it .
It is well known in automotive circles that it is almost impossible to drive a modern car in a manner that meets the fuel economy specifications on the EPA tests .
The local car salesman states it as : " Fuel economy is guaranteed to never exceed the EPA ratings .
" Informally , dealers know never comment about real-world fuel consumption and EPA ratings , as you could get stuffed with a false advertising lawsuit .
If the customer has a lead foot , then they wo n't reach the EPA test numbers .
Additionally , no warning lights are present on cars to warn drivers of poor driving habits .
Finally , there are many variations in car equipment , and even inside the manufacturing tolerances of the components inside the engine .
It is quite likely that some cars will never be reach the EPA fuel economy numbers , even if dynoed on exactly the same equipment , with the same procedures , and following the same EPA mandated calculations .
For instance , I think it is typical that the EPA tests are done with a modified gas tank , and for some vehicles the weight of the combined weight of the gas and driver would influence the test results .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was designed to drive at speeds commonly used by commuters.No one anywhere designs a car for optimal commuter use.
They design it to get the lowest possible score on the EPA tests.
They even have special setup procedures, driving procedures, and dynos to ensure the cars will get the lowest possible EPA test scores.
Notably, the highway test is done at 90 km/h (about 55 mph), however most states have 70 mph speed limits, and people speed.
In Ontario, the speed limit is 100 km/h, and average traffic speed is 112 km/h.
The cars perform optimally at 90 km/h because that is the speed of the test.
Cars are explicitly designed to only pass the EPA test.
My Saturn immediately consumes more gas as soon as the temperature drops below a certain level.
I think the ECM has an algorithm to the effect of: "if the temperature less than 5 degrees Celsius, then switch to richer fuel mixture.
"  The manufacturers blatantly ignore fuel economy at low temperatures, because there is no EPA test for it.
It is well known in automotive circles that it is almost impossible to drive a modern car in a manner that meets the fuel economy specifications on the EPA tests.
The local car salesman states it as: "Fuel economy is guaranteed to never exceed the EPA ratings.
"  Informally, dealers know  never comment about real-world fuel consumption and EPA ratings, as you could get stuffed with a false advertising lawsuit.
If the customer has a lead foot, then they won't reach the EPA test numbers.
Additionally, no warning lights are present on cars to warn drivers of poor driving habits.
Finally, there are many variations in car equipment, and even inside the manufacturing tolerances of the components inside the engine.
It is quite likely that some cars will never be reach the EPA fuel economy numbers, even if dynoed on exactly the same equipment, with the same procedures, and following the same EPA mandated calculations.
For instance, I think it is typical that the EPA tests are done with a modified gas tank, and for some vehicles the weight of the combined weight of the gas and driver would influence the test results.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318618</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319262</id>
	<title>Re:Being greener without the electric</title>
	<author>Marcika</author>
	<datestamp>1259847480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You won't get to 100 mpg with the low-hanging fruit... Even the most advanced efforts like the VW Lupo or the small-engine Smart car only get 80 mpg -- and these are cars that people from the US are conditioned to reject because for them, only big is beautiful.<p>And the most frequent complaint that I hear about cars that implement fuel saving without compromise like the Aptera is that they are "gay as hell". Supplying good cars isn't enough if the demand is not there; and the demand will only come once fuel is expensive. (Whether that is from scarcity-induced price spikes or a gradual tax increase on petrol is your guess.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You wo n't get to 100 mpg with the low-hanging fruit... Even the most advanced efforts like the VW Lupo or the small-engine Smart car only get 80 mpg -- and these are cars that people from the US are conditioned to reject because for them , only big is beautiful.And the most frequent complaint that I hear about cars that implement fuel saving without compromise like the Aptera is that they are " gay as hell " .
Supplying good cars is n't enough if the demand is not there ; and the demand will only come once fuel is expensive .
( Whether that is from scarcity-induced price spikes or a gradual tax increase on petrol is your guess .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You won't get to 100 mpg with the low-hanging fruit... Even the most advanced efforts like the VW Lupo or the small-engine Smart car only get 80 mpg -- and these are cars that people from the US are conditioned to reject because for them, only big is beautiful.And the most frequent complaint that I hear about cars that implement fuel saving without compromise like the Aptera is that they are "gay as hell".
Supplying good cars isn't enough if the demand is not there; and the demand will only come once fuel is expensive.
(Whether that is from scarcity-induced price spikes or a gradual tax increase on petrol is your guess.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30322406</id>
	<title>Re:Diesels</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259929260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd imagine that it's because in general it requires more electrical effort to start a diesel engine than a petrol one. The model of repeated starting and stopping doesn't work as kindly with diesel.<br>With larger batteries then running at depletion level until full charged then it might be more practical.</p><p>(I'm not working in the area, just a fan of diesel engines myself and have pondered the point with colleages)</p><p>On the point of electric beating TD in urban areas - the quoted of 45mpg for a TD is quite typical and is from mixed driving - You'd get up to 55mpg on highway and drop to about 35mpg in traffic. The biggest driver of mph is how heavy is your foot. Reasonable acceleration and cruise control works wonders for fuel consumption.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd imagine that it 's because in general it requires more electrical effort to start a diesel engine than a petrol one .
The model of repeated starting and stopping does n't work as kindly with diesel.With larger batteries then running at depletion level until full charged then it might be more practical .
( I 'm not working in the area , just a fan of diesel engines myself and have pondered the point with colleages ) On the point of electric beating TD in urban areas - the quoted of 45mpg for a TD is quite typical and is from mixed driving - You 'd get up to 55mpg on highway and drop to about 35mpg in traffic .
The biggest driver of mph is how heavy is your foot .
Reasonable acceleration and cruise control works wonders for fuel consumption .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd imagine that it's because in general it requires more electrical effort to start a diesel engine than a petrol one.
The model of repeated starting and stopping doesn't work as kindly with diesel.With larger batteries then running at depletion level until full charged then it might be more practical.
(I'm not working in the area, just a fan of diesel engines myself and have pondered the point with colleages)On the point of electric beating TD in urban areas - the quoted of 45mpg for a TD is quite typical and is from mixed driving - You'd get up to 55mpg on highway and drop to about 35mpg in traffic.
The biggest driver of mph is how heavy is your foot.
Reasonable acceleration and cruise control works wonders for fuel consumption.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319712</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318078</id>
	<title>The dealer?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259841480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Isn't it the car dealer who has to tell the client the charging specs? Then the client can have the right picture of how he is going to manage charging his car.
<br> <br>
Also, when you "try" your car's acceleration, it's obvious that you will get a shorter range. It's true with a gas powered car, and so it is with an EV.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't it the car dealer who has to tell the client the charging specs ?
Then the client can have the right picture of how he is going to manage charging his car .
Also , when you " try " your car 's acceleration , it 's obvious that you will get a shorter range .
It 's true with a gas powered car , and so it is with an EV .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't it the car dealer who has to tell the client the charging specs?
Then the client can have the right picture of how he is going to manage charging his car.
Also, when you "try" your car's acceleration, it's obvious that you will get a shorter range.
It's true with a gas powered car, and so it is with an EV.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318660</id>
	<title>Opt-in Evaluation Program</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259844240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>For any interested- The article fails to mention that this is/was an evaluation program initiated by BMW. The electric Cooper is not available through standard channels. I received an invitation to evaluate one but because I rent an apartment I didn't meet the minimum requirements to participate. One of the stipulations was that you had to have an enclosed parking area (i.e. a garage) and were willing to have the required charging equipment installed in that garage. There were some other requirements as well, but that was the one that prevented me from considering it. FWIW the invitation was pretty explicit about the performance differences between the gas and electric models as well as your responsibility during the evaluation period. Anyway, I wound up leasing a 2009 Clubman and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner- 'Fun to drive' is a huge understatement.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For any interested- The article fails to mention that this is/was an evaluation program initiated by BMW .
The electric Cooper is not available through standard channels .
I received an invitation to evaluate one but because I rent an apartment I did n't meet the minimum requirements to participate .
One of the stipulations was that you had to have an enclosed parking area ( i.e .
a garage ) and were willing to have the required charging equipment installed in that garage .
There were some other requirements as well , but that was the one that prevented me from considering it .
FWIW the invitation was pretty explicit about the performance differences between the gas and electric models as well as your responsibility during the evaluation period .
Anyway , I wound up leasing a 2009 Clubman and my only regret is that I did n't do it sooner- 'Fun to drive ' is a huge understatement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For any interested- The article fails to mention that this is/was an evaluation program initiated by BMW.
The electric Cooper is not available through standard channels.
I received an invitation to evaluate one but because I rent an apartment I didn't meet the minimum requirements to participate.
One of the stipulations was that you had to have an enclosed parking area (i.e.
a garage) and were willing to have the required charging equipment installed in that garage.
There were some other requirements as well, but that was the one that prevented me from considering it.
FWIW the invitation was pretty explicit about the performance differences between the gas and electric models as well as your responsibility during the evaluation period.
Anyway, I wound up leasing a 2009 Clubman and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner- 'Fun to drive' is a huge understatement.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30320172</id>
	<title>Re:Being greener without the electric</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259854740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Much better than the Prius is the Ford Fiesta Econetic, a turbodiesel that gets 65 MPG, and it still doesn't cover all the easy ways to increase fuel economy.  It's not a hybrid.  Proof that a lot more can be done, and that manufacturers have yet to get really serious about fuel economy.</p></div><p>Yes, the Econetic does get 65 MPG vs the Prius' 57MPG (yes, my daughter gets an average 57 MPG combined),  but  Econetic is not and will not be available in North America.   The president of Ford Motors was asked about bringing it to NA and his response was that it was not possible as it would be too hard to import and too expensive to build here.</p><p>So given the choice of an available Prius or an unavailable Econetic<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. the choice is obvious.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Much better than the Prius is the Ford Fiesta Econetic , a turbodiesel that gets 65 MPG , and it still does n't cover all the easy ways to increase fuel economy .
It 's not a hybrid .
Proof that a lot more can be done , and that manufacturers have yet to get really serious about fuel economy.Yes , the Econetic does get 65 MPG vs the Prius ' 57MPG ( yes , my daughter gets an average 57 MPG combined ) , but Econetic is not and will not be available in North America .
The president of Ford Motors was asked about bringing it to NA and his response was that it was not possible as it would be too hard to import and too expensive to build here.So given the choice of an available Prius or an unavailable Econetic .. the choice is obvious .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Much better than the Prius is the Ford Fiesta Econetic, a turbodiesel that gets 65 MPG, and it still doesn't cover all the easy ways to increase fuel economy.
It's not a hybrid.
Proof that a lot more can be done, and that manufacturers have yet to get really serious about fuel economy.Yes, the Econetic does get 65 MPG vs the Prius' 57MPG (yes, my daughter gets an average 57 MPG combined),  but  Econetic is not and will not be available in North America.
The president of Ford Motors was asked about bringing it to NA and his response was that it was not possible as it would be too hard to import and too expensive to build here.So given the choice of an available Prius or an unavailable Econetic .. the choice is obvious.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318286</id>
	<title>Re:$850 a month??</title>
	<author>QuantumG</author>
	<datestamp>1259842380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They prefer the term "early adopters" and without them we wouldn't see half the new risky products that appear on the market.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They prefer the term " early adopters " and without them we would n't see half the new risky products that appear on the market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They prefer the term "early adopters" and without them we wouldn't see half the new risky products that appear on the market.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319398</id>
	<title>Other models in select markets?</title>
	<author>damn\_registrars</author>
	<datestamp>1259848380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The summary implies that the BMW M6 is in limited release.  While it is limited production, your location doesn't determine whether or not you can buy it - your wallet (or credit) does.  There is someone in my area would be quite surprised to know that the car he owns isn't available for sale here.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The summary implies that the BMW M6 is in limited release .
While it is limited production , your location does n't determine whether or not you can buy it - your wallet ( or credit ) does .
There is someone in my area would be quite surprised to know that the car he owns is n't available for sale here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The summary implies that the BMW M6 is in limited release.
While it is limited production, your location doesn't determine whether or not you can buy it - your wallet (or credit) does.
There is someone in my area would be quite surprised to know that the car he owns isn't available for sale here.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30320940</id>
	<title>Re:Being greener without the electric</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259862540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>these are cars that people from the US are conditioned to reject because for them, only big is beautiful.</i>
</p><p>
You should have seen how many sacks of salt for the water softener I brought home today in my Prius. I hardly could push the shopping cart from Lowe's to the car. And that is not something unusual if you own a house and have to maintain it. I even need a truck now and then, though I don't own one.
</p><p>
So don't be so quick to explain the "big =&gt; good" opinion with just a local kind of insanity. Rational people buy cars of the size that they need. I sometimes have 2-3 passengers in my car; often I carry stuff from the stores. I can't afford three cars; I buy one that does most of what I need. And needs of a single student who lives in a dorm are considerably different from needs of a homeowner.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>these are cars that people from the US are conditioned to reject because for them , only big is beautiful .
You should have seen how many sacks of salt for the water softener I brought home today in my Prius .
I hardly could push the shopping cart from Lowe 's to the car .
And that is not something unusual if you own a house and have to maintain it .
I even need a truck now and then , though I do n't own one .
So do n't be so quick to explain the " big = &gt; good " opinion with just a local kind of insanity .
Rational people buy cars of the size that they need .
I sometimes have 2-3 passengers in my car ; often I carry stuff from the stores .
I ca n't afford three cars ; I buy one that does most of what I need .
And needs of a single student who lives in a dorm are considerably different from needs of a homeowner .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> these are cars that people from the US are conditioned to reject because for them, only big is beautiful.
You should have seen how many sacks of salt for the water softener I brought home today in my Prius.
I hardly could push the shopping cart from Lowe's to the car.
And that is not something unusual if you own a house and have to maintain it.
I even need a truck now and then, though I don't own one.
So don't be so quick to explain the "big =&gt; good" opinion with just a local kind of insanity.
Rational people buy cars of the size that they need.
I sometimes have 2-3 passengers in my car; often I carry stuff from the stores.
I can't afford three cars; I buy one that does most of what I need.
And needs of a single student who lives in a dorm are considerably different from needs of a homeowner.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318464</id>
	<title>Re:Electric car with problems?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259843220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Unless you want to pay 45$ for your Mini Wheat or 75$ for your pop corn"</p><p>Or we could finally stop paying Agribiz to plow under their crops / pay Agribiz not to grow crops!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Unless you want to pay 45 $ for your Mini Wheat or 75 $ for your pop corn " Or we could finally stop paying Agribiz to plow under their crops / pay Agribiz not to grow crops !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Unless you want to pay 45$ for your Mini Wheat or 75$ for your pop corn"Or we could finally stop paying Agribiz to plow under their crops / pay Agribiz not to grow crops!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319218</id>
	<title>Drivers are paying $850/month</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1259847240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Shouldn't a beta program be free?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Should n't a beta program be free ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shouldn't a beta program be free?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319592</id>
	<title>Re:Diesels</title>
	<author>jonwil</author>
	<datestamp>1259850060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All the evidence I have seen suggests that Volkswagen are profitably selling Diesels in the US market and are selling more than enough to offset the costs of "Americanizing" the cars. Given this, why are the other automakers (especially GM and Ford) not willing to follow VW with Diesels? Like the Diesel version of the new Chevrolet Cruze that is sold in the rest of the world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All the evidence I have seen suggests that Volkswagen are profitably selling Diesels in the US market and are selling more than enough to offset the costs of " Americanizing " the cars .
Given this , why are the other automakers ( especially GM and Ford ) not willing to follow VW with Diesels ?
Like the Diesel version of the new Chevrolet Cruze that is sold in the rest of the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All the evidence I have seen suggests that Volkswagen are profitably selling Diesels in the US market and are selling more than enough to offset the costs of "Americanizing" the cars.
Given this, why are the other automakers (especially GM and Ford) not willing to follow VW with Diesels?
Like the Diesel version of the new Chevrolet Cruze that is sold in the rest of the world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30321980</id>
	<title>The problem of "Less than advertised" range</title>
	<author>erroneus</author>
	<datestamp>1259921220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It makes me grin to read that performance being less than advertised is stated as a problem with a product.  It should be no mystery to anyone why I dislike advertisers and marketers.  These days, they are synonymous with liars to the point that you can't believe anything they say regardless of any legal requirements to tell the truth.  The unfortunate reality is that most people don't seem to get that and continue to buy into crap that advertisers spew.  And as long as that is the case, truth in advertising will not be valued by the consumer.  Sure, legislation and regulation can be tightened, but that will not change the underlying problem.  People seem to want to be lied to on a regular basis.  Consider the casual greeting "how are you doing?"  We know they aren't really asking how we are doing and are certainly not interested in the events or status of our lives, so the correct response is not the response people seek.  Consider that in the U.S., and I suspect world wide, the standard metrics for sizes in women's clothing continue to shift to the point that "negative sizes" are now visible on the rack.  Could it be that women are getting so small that they are inside-out or that they have shifted into another plane of existence?  Nope.  The truth is that women seem to prefer to be lied to rather than be faced with and to accept the facts at hand.  Fortunately, for me, as a man who respects and understands the purpose and need for an accurate measurement system, men's clothes are still sized by actual measurement.</p><p>So as long as people want to be lied to, advertisers and marketers will do so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It makes me grin to read that performance being less than advertised is stated as a problem with a product .
It should be no mystery to anyone why I dislike advertisers and marketers .
These days , they are synonymous with liars to the point that you ca n't believe anything they say regardless of any legal requirements to tell the truth .
The unfortunate reality is that most people do n't seem to get that and continue to buy into crap that advertisers spew .
And as long as that is the case , truth in advertising will not be valued by the consumer .
Sure , legislation and regulation can be tightened , but that will not change the underlying problem .
People seem to want to be lied to on a regular basis .
Consider the casual greeting " how are you doing ?
" We know they are n't really asking how we are doing and are certainly not interested in the events or status of our lives , so the correct response is not the response people seek .
Consider that in the U.S. , and I suspect world wide , the standard metrics for sizes in women 's clothing continue to shift to the point that " negative sizes " are now visible on the rack .
Could it be that women are getting so small that they are inside-out or that they have shifted into another plane of existence ?
Nope. The truth is that women seem to prefer to be lied to rather than be faced with and to accept the facts at hand .
Fortunately , for me , as a man who respects and understands the purpose and need for an accurate measurement system , men 's clothes are still sized by actual measurement.So as long as people want to be lied to , advertisers and marketers will do so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It makes me grin to read that performance being less than advertised is stated as a problem with a product.
It should be no mystery to anyone why I dislike advertisers and marketers.
These days, they are synonymous with liars to the point that you can't believe anything they say regardless of any legal requirements to tell the truth.
The unfortunate reality is that most people don't seem to get that and continue to buy into crap that advertisers spew.
And as long as that is the case, truth in advertising will not be valued by the consumer.
Sure, legislation and regulation can be tightened, but that will not change the underlying problem.
People seem to want to be lied to on a regular basis.
Consider the casual greeting "how are you doing?
"  We know they aren't really asking how we are doing and are certainly not interested in the events or status of our lives, so the correct response is not the response people seek.
Consider that in the U.S., and I suspect world wide, the standard metrics for sizes in women's clothing continue to shift to the point that "negative sizes" are now visible on the rack.
Could it be that women are getting so small that they are inside-out or that they have shifted into another plane of existence?
Nope.  The truth is that women seem to prefer to be lied to rather than be faced with and to accept the facts at hand.
Fortunately, for me, as a man who respects and understands the purpose and need for an accurate measurement system, men's clothes are still sized by actual measurement.So as long as people want to be lied to, advertisers and marketers will do so.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318092</id>
	<title>$850 a month??</title>
	<author>Rosco P. Coltrane</author>
	<datestamp>1259841600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This confirms what I've always suspected: the green fashion is for rich suckers first, then for the rest of us when oil runs out anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This confirms what I 've always suspected : the green fashion is for rich suckers first , then for the rest of us when oil runs out anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This confirms what I've always suspected: the green fashion is for rich suckers first, then for the rest of us when oil runs out anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30322684</id>
	<title>Re:Why?</title>
	<author>nutshell42</author>
	<datestamp>1259934840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>At those speeds and that kind of track the difference is minimal.<p>
And their point was absolutely true. If people stopped driving like their lives depended on getting to the next red light 3s sooner, overall, it would make a much bigger difference than going from a normal car to a Prius.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At those speeds and that kind of track the difference is minimal .
And their point was absolutely true .
If people stopped driving like their lives depended on getting to the next red light 3s sooner , overall , it would make a much bigger difference than going from a normal car to a Prius .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At those speeds and that kind of track the difference is minimal.
And their point was absolutely true.
If people stopped driving like their lives depended on getting to the next red light 3s sooner, overall, it would make a much bigger difference than going from a normal car to a Prius.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318164</id>
	<title>This should not surprise anyone</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259841840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With product life cycle getting shorter all the time, products of late (in the past decade or two) are becoming less and less polished with successive generation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With product life cycle getting shorter all the time , products of late ( in the past decade or two ) are becoming less and less polished with successive generation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With product life cycle getting shorter all the time, products of late (in the past decade or two) are becoming less and less polished with successive generation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30320362</id>
	<title>Re:Why?</title>
	<author>scorp1us</author>
	<datestamp>1259856600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except for the fact that it wasn't an oval track. It was the regular track with thew twists and turns, and for that, drafting is useless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except for the fact that it was n't an oval track .
It was the regular track with thew twists and turns , and for that , drafting is useless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except for the fact that it wasn't an oval track.
It was the regular track with thew twists and turns, and for that, drafting is useless.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30322282</id>
	<title>Re:The dealer?</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1259926920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why is that obvious with an EV?  High speeds, yes, but "acceleration"?  With decent regenerative braking, that shouldn't make nearly as much difference with an EV as with an ICE vehicle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is that obvious with an EV ?
High speeds , yes , but " acceleration " ?
With decent regenerative braking , that should n't make nearly as much difference with an EV as with an ICE vehicle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is that obvious with an EV?
High speeds, yes, but "acceleration"?
With decent regenerative braking, that shouldn't make nearly as much difference with an EV as with an ICE vehicle.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318078</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30320492</id>
	<title>Re:Being greener without the electric</title>
	<author>shermo</author>
	<datestamp>1259857620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The price of an item already does a pretty good job at estimating its cost to the environment. With the introduction of a system that properly implements carbon/polution credits this will only become more accurate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The price of an item already does a pretty good job at estimating its cost to the environment .
With the introduction of a system that properly implements carbon/polution credits this will only become more accurate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The price of an item already does a pretty good job at estimating its cost to the environment.
With the introduction of a system that properly implements carbon/polution credits this will only become more accurate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30320240</id>
	<title>Re:This should not surprise anyone</title>
	<author>mister\_playboy</author>
	<datestamp>1259855460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, cars today have a longer design cycle than they did at any time in the past.  Cost to design is higher than ever before... why do you think some many companies are merging?</p><p>Look at a Tri-Five Chevy (1955, 1956,1957)... how many cars today get such a substantial cosmetic makeover after only one model year?  The answer is none.</p><p>Further proof can be found in the number of hugely powerful vehicles coming out right now (BMW 760Li, X5M, X6M) that are not in step with the current, more conservative market (even though enthusiasts like me admire them).  These "more of everything" designs all began long before the current recession occurred, but only now are some of them coming to market.</p><p>Finally, I would point out that the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther\_platform" title="wikipedia.org">Panther platform</a> [wikipedia.org] cars from Ford have existed in the same general form for an incredible <b>30</b> years now... how many cars from the 1960's were designed in the 1930's?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , cars today have a longer design cycle than they did at any time in the past .
Cost to design is higher than ever before... why do you think some many companies are merging ? Look at a Tri-Five Chevy ( 1955 , 1956,1957 ) ... how many cars today get such a substantial cosmetic makeover after only one model year ?
The answer is none.Further proof can be found in the number of hugely powerful vehicles coming out right now ( BMW 760Li , X5M , X6M ) that are not in step with the current , more conservative market ( even though enthusiasts like me admire them ) .
These " more of everything " designs all began long before the current recession occurred , but only now are some of them coming to market.Finally , I would point out that the Panther platform [ wikipedia.org ] cars from Ford have existed in the same general form for an incredible 30 years now... how many cars from the 1960 's were designed in the 1930 's ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, cars today have a longer design cycle than they did at any time in the past.
Cost to design is higher than ever before... why do you think some many companies are merging?Look at a Tri-Five Chevy (1955, 1956,1957)... how many cars today get such a substantial cosmetic makeover after only one model year?
The answer is none.Further proof can be found in the number of hugely powerful vehicles coming out right now (BMW 760Li, X5M, X6M) that are not in step with the current, more conservative market (even though enthusiasts like me admire them).
These "more of everything" designs all began long before the current recession occurred, but only now are some of them coming to market.Finally, I would point out that the Panther platform [wikipedia.org] cars from Ford have existed in the same general form for an incredible 30 years now... how many cars from the 1960's were designed in the 1930's?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30321228</id>
	<title>Re:Diesels</title>
	<author>westyvw</author>
	<datestamp>1259866080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Too bad the reliability of the jetta is so much lower.........kinda breaks the deal doesnt it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Too bad the reliability of the jetta is so much lower.........kinda breaks the deal doesnt it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too bad the reliability of the jetta is so much lower.........kinda breaks the deal doesnt it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318108</id>
	<title>I guess I'll say it...</title>
	<author>swanzilla</author>
	<datestamp>1259841660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>FTA:<p>BMW initially had to learn about infrastructure of houses and electrical-regulatory agencies in introducing the electric Mini to the U.S., Steinberg said. A key problem was getting approval for the recharging plug, which was originally designed for the European market, according to the executive. </p><p>You Europeans and your superior plugs...you may have won this battle, but we will win the war.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FTA : BMW initially had to learn about infrastructure of houses and electrical-regulatory agencies in introducing the electric Mini to the U.S. , Steinberg said .
A key problem was getting approval for the recharging plug , which was originally designed for the European market , according to the executive .
You Europeans and your superior plugs...you may have won this battle , but we will win the war .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FTA:BMW initially had to learn about infrastructure of houses and electrical-regulatory agencies in introducing the electric Mini to the U.S., Steinberg said.
A key problem was getting approval for the recharging plug, which was originally designed for the European market, according to the executive.
You Europeans and your superior plugs...you may have won this battle, but we will win the war.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319316</id>
	<title>Re:Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259847840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does this other car <em>look</em> like a Mini Cooper?  If not, then you might as well ask why people buy iPods considering how much better just about any other music player is.  And then it'll hit you: "*facepalm* I forgot fashion!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does this other car look like a Mini Cooper ?
If not , then you might as well ask why people buy iPods considering how much better just about any other music player is .
And then it 'll hit you : " * facepalm * I forgot fashion !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does this other car look like a Mini Cooper?
If not, then you might as well ask why people buy iPods considering how much better just about any other music player is.
And then it'll hit you: "*facepalm* I forgot fashion!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318270</id>
	<title>Do the Google!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259842320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Call it a beta!</p><p>Of course, BMW's demanding a lot of money, so maybe the Google example isn't the best.</p><p>Do the Microsoft! Shell out your hard-earned money to be part of their QC team!</p><p>Flameage and massive negative moderation in 3...2...1....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Call it a beta ! Of course , BMW 's demanding a lot of money , so maybe the Google example is n't the best.Do the Microsoft !
Shell out your hard-earned money to be part of their QC team ! Flameage and massive negative moderation in 3...2...1... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Call it a beta!Of course, BMW's demanding a lot of money, so maybe the Google example isn't the best.Do the Microsoft!
Shell out your hard-earned money to be part of their QC team!Flameage and massive negative moderation in 3...2...1....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319166</id>
	<title>Re:Electric car with problems?</title>
	<author>Ironsides</author>
	<datestamp>1259846940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>O RLY? The problem is solved? Exactly where can I buy these plant based fuels?</p></div><p>Right now, every time you fill up.  Gasoline at the pump contains 10\% ethanol by volume.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>O RLY ?
The problem is solved ?
Exactly where can I buy these plant based fuels ? Right now , every time you fill up .
Gasoline at the pump contains 10 \ % ethanol by volume .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>O RLY?
The problem is solved?
Exactly where can I buy these plant based fuels?Right now, every time you fill up.
Gasoline at the pump contains 10\% ethanol by volume.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318124</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30321688</id>
	<title>Re:Do the Google!</title>
	<author>GrumblyStuff</author>
	<datestamp>1259959560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The point of charging for the cars is so that the people using them won't overlook flaws under the train of thought "Hey, it was free."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The point of charging for the cars is so that the people using them wo n't overlook flaws under the train of thought " Hey , it was free .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The point of charging for the cars is so that the people using them won't overlook flaws under the train of thought "Hey, it was free.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30323364</id>
	<title>Re:Diesels</title>
	<author>MobyDisk</author>
	<datestamp>1259940180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallon" title="wikipedia.org">Imperial or US gallons?</a> [wikipedia.org]<br><a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=british+gallon+in+american+gallons&amp;aq=f&amp;oq=&amp;aqi=" title="google.com">There is a 20\% difference.</a> [google.com]</p><p>Plus, they aren't the same vehicles.  The US safety standards require heavier cars.  I know some Chinese car manufacturers can't export cars to the US because they are too lightweight.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imperial or US gallons ?
[ wikipedia.org ] There is a 20 \ % difference .
[ google.com ] Plus , they are n't the same vehicles .
The US safety standards require heavier cars .
I know some Chinese car manufacturers ca n't export cars to the US because they are too lightweight .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imperial or US gallons?
[wikipedia.org]There is a 20\% difference.
[google.com]Plus, they aren't the same vehicles.
The US safety standards require heavier cars.
I know some Chinese car manufacturers can't export cars to the US because they are too lightweight.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30330416</id>
	<title>BMW hates electric power</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259928060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After reading the article, it becomes clear to me that BMW is actively sabotaging its electric car. I have never heard a spokesman for a new car say these sorts of things about their own technology and act so stupid. Here are examples:</p><p>"...so quiet that drivers may not realize how fast they're traveling." =&gt; how is this a problem? Well I guess marketing could word it to appear as a problem.<br>"Customers groused about uninformed dealers" =&gt; why would dealers be unaware of the future engine technology? Oh, because it is not the future to BMW's marketing.<br>"Customers are learning how to manage their electric vehicles, including installation requirements, the required charges and their range" =&gt; oh good, marketing is highlighting the difficulties, instead of the benefits. As if that is how marketing works. And why were these not thought of in advance? My guess: to generate issues that otherwise would not materialize.<br>"When complaints rolled in, the company had to determine whether a customer's problem was the charger, a cable that wasn't working or a broken circuit breaker" =&gt; so the problem is the charger, the cable or maybe a breaker. I guess we (BMW) will never know what the real issue is, due to so many potential variables... give me a break.</p><p>Note: the majority of the above quotes come from "Richard Steinberg, manager of electric vehicle operations and strategy for Munich- based BMW"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... at a conference no less. So we have to believe the above comments were prepared well in advance.</p><p>Come on BMW. Your half hearted efforts and lip service suck D*ck!</p><p>If you are listening BMW... You have an ideal compact body car that will adapt well to the new electric market that is coming. Don't drag your heals in hopes to retain the huge residual payments customers pay you for combustion engine repair. Enter the market now... become a leader and make money by eliminating the competition with a better product. Otherwise, customers will become alienated when they finally see how untruthful your efforts have been in order to scare customers to your highly profitable and residual combustion car lines. Either that... or just die now... you gas guzzling waste of a company!</p><p>Disclaimer: I have an electric vehicle. It is the greatest vehicle I've ever owner. It costs way less for fuel (about 1/10 the cost over same distance), way less for repairs (electric engine is simple) and has way less polluting (noise &amp; smell). But by far the most rewarding and surprising  aspect is not having the smell and noise of a combustion engine. Oh... and it accelerates faster then most combustion vehicles (not a sports car though) and has no gears at all... so constant acceleration. Just wait until electric cars come to a market near you... you will be shocked at what you have been missing and how fun and in-touch silent driving is.</p><p>Question: why were none of the above (see disclaimer) benefits mentioned in the article? don't know... you'll need to ask BMW.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After reading the article , it becomes clear to me that BMW is actively sabotaging its electric car .
I have never heard a spokesman for a new car say these sorts of things about their own technology and act so stupid .
Here are examples : " ...so quiet that drivers may not realize how fast they 're traveling .
" = &gt; how is this a problem ?
Well I guess marketing could word it to appear as a problem .
" Customers groused about uninformed dealers " = &gt; why would dealers be unaware of the future engine technology ?
Oh , because it is not the future to BMW 's marketing .
" Customers are learning how to manage their electric vehicles , including installation requirements , the required charges and their range " = &gt; oh good , marketing is highlighting the difficulties , instead of the benefits .
As if that is how marketing works .
And why were these not thought of in advance ?
My guess : to generate issues that otherwise would not materialize .
" When complaints rolled in , the company had to determine whether a customer 's problem was the charger , a cable that was n't working or a broken circuit breaker " = &gt; so the problem is the charger , the cable or maybe a breaker .
I guess we ( BMW ) will never know what the real issue is , due to so many potential variables... give me a break.Note : the majority of the above quotes come from " Richard Steinberg , manager of electric vehicle operations and strategy for Munich- based BMW " ... at a conference no less .
So we have to believe the above comments were prepared well in advance.Come on BMW .
Your half hearted efforts and lip service suck D * ck ! If you are listening BMW... You have an ideal compact body car that will adapt well to the new electric market that is coming .
Do n't drag your heals in hopes to retain the huge residual payments customers pay you for combustion engine repair .
Enter the market now... become a leader and make money by eliminating the competition with a better product .
Otherwise , customers will become alienated when they finally see how untruthful your efforts have been in order to scare customers to your highly profitable and residual combustion car lines .
Either that... or just die now... you gas guzzling waste of a company ! Disclaimer : I have an electric vehicle .
It is the greatest vehicle I 've ever owner .
It costs way less for fuel ( about 1/10 the cost over same distance ) , way less for repairs ( electric engine is simple ) and has way less polluting ( noise &amp; smell ) .
But by far the most rewarding and surprising aspect is not having the smell and noise of a combustion engine .
Oh... and it accelerates faster then most combustion vehicles ( not a sports car though ) and has no gears at all... so constant acceleration .
Just wait until electric cars come to a market near you... you will be shocked at what you have been missing and how fun and in-touch silent driving is.Question : why were none of the above ( see disclaimer ) benefits mentioned in the article ?
do n't know... you 'll need to ask BMW .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After reading the article, it becomes clear to me that BMW is actively sabotaging its electric car.
I have never heard a spokesman for a new car say these sorts of things about their own technology and act so stupid.
Here are examples:"...so quiet that drivers may not realize how fast they're traveling.
" =&gt; how is this a problem?
Well I guess marketing could word it to appear as a problem.
"Customers groused about uninformed dealers" =&gt; why would dealers be unaware of the future engine technology?
Oh, because it is not the future to BMW's marketing.
"Customers are learning how to manage their electric vehicles, including installation requirements, the required charges and their range" =&gt; oh good, marketing is highlighting the difficulties, instead of the benefits.
As if that is how marketing works.
And why were these not thought of in advance?
My guess: to generate issues that otherwise would not materialize.
"When complaints rolled in, the company had to determine whether a customer's problem was the charger, a cable that wasn't working or a broken circuit breaker" =&gt; so the problem is the charger, the cable or maybe a breaker.
I guess we (BMW) will never know what the real issue is, due to so many potential variables... give me a break.Note: the majority of the above quotes come from "Richard Steinberg, manager of electric vehicle operations and strategy for Munich- based BMW" ... at a conference no less.
So we have to believe the above comments were prepared well in advance.Come on BMW.
Your half hearted efforts and lip service suck D*ck!If you are listening BMW... You have an ideal compact body car that will adapt well to the new electric market that is coming.
Don't drag your heals in hopes to retain the huge residual payments customers pay you for combustion engine repair.
Enter the market now... become a leader and make money by eliminating the competition with a better product.
Otherwise, customers will become alienated when they finally see how untruthful your efforts have been in order to scare customers to your highly profitable and residual combustion car lines.
Either that... or just die now... you gas guzzling waste of a company!Disclaimer: I have an electric vehicle.
It is the greatest vehicle I've ever owner.
It costs way less for fuel (about 1/10 the cost over same distance), way less for repairs (electric engine is simple) and has way less polluting (noise &amp; smell).
But by far the most rewarding and surprising  aspect is not having the smell and noise of a combustion engine.
Oh... and it accelerates faster then most combustion vehicles (not a sports car though) and has no gears at all... so constant acceleration.
Just wait until electric cars come to a market near you... you will be shocked at what you have been missing and how fun and in-touch silent driving is.Question: why were none of the above (see disclaimer) benefits mentioned in the article?
don't know... you'll need to ask BMW.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319712</id>
	<title>Re:Diesels</title>
	<author>NeutronCowboy</author>
	<datestamp>1259851020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's the beauty of a hybrid drive - it doesn't matter what powers the combustion engine. For all the hybrid system cares, it could be pink unicorns and care bears. I don't understand why there isn't a hybrid diesel on the market.... Probably cost.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the beauty of a hybrid drive - it does n't matter what powers the combustion engine .
For all the hybrid system cares , it could be pink unicorns and care bears .
I do n't understand why there is n't a hybrid diesel on the market.... Probably cost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the beauty of a hybrid drive - it doesn't matter what powers the combustion engine.
For all the hybrid system cares, it could be pink unicorns and care bears.
I don't understand why there isn't a hybrid diesel on the market.... Probably cost.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318774</id>
	<title>Re:Electric car with problems?</title>
	<author>calmofthestorm</author>
	<datestamp>1259844960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Corn biofuel is extremely inefficient, and, depending on where you get your numbers energy negative. But there are other crops with far higher potential efficiencies. Biofuel is definitely part of the solution, but not if we keep letting fucking politicians and their corn subsidies determine science.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Corn biofuel is extremely inefficient , and , depending on where you get your numbers energy negative .
But there are other crops with far higher potential efficiencies .
Biofuel is definitely part of the solution , but not if we keep letting fucking politicians and their corn subsidies determine science .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Corn biofuel is extremely inefficient, and, depending on where you get your numbers energy negative.
But there are other crops with far higher potential efficiencies.
Biofuel is definitely part of the solution, but not if we keep letting fucking politicians and their corn subsidies determine science.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30322314</id>
	<title>Re:Electric car with problems?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259927640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except the left-over after cold-pressing things like corn and rape seed is not useless as a foodstock. It's good stuff for cows still. Whether the corn industry has figured that out in the US is another matter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except the left-over after cold-pressing things like corn and rape seed is not useless as a foodstock .
It 's good stuff for cows still .
Whether the corn industry has figured that out in the US is another matter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except the left-over after cold-pressing things like corn and rape seed is not useless as a foodstock.
It's good stuff for cows still.
Whether the corn industry has figured that out in the US is another matter.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318124</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319244</id>
	<title>Re:Diesels</title>
	<author>scorp1us</author>
	<datestamp>1259847360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hell, even the E92 M3 (v8) gets better <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk" title="youtube.com">mileage than a Prius.</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hell , even the E92 M3 ( v8 ) gets better mileage than a Prius .
[ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hell, even the E92 M3 (v8) gets better mileage than a Prius.
[youtube.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318318</id>
	<title>Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259842560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Since we know that BMW already <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">has a car </a> [youtube.com] that beats the Prius on gas mileage. Why are they doing this at all?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Since we know that BMW already has a car [ youtube.com ] that beats the Prius on gas mileage .
Why are they doing this at all ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since we know that BMW already has a car  [youtube.com] that beats the Prius on gas mileage.
Why are they doing this at all?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30321698</id>
	<title>PML In-Wheel motors Mini</title>
	<author>Ivan Stepaniuk</author>
	<datestamp>1259959800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>According to TFA, this electric mini does not seem to be related to <a href="http://www.worldcarfans.com/10607246585/pml-builds-640hp-electric-mini" title="worldcarfans.com" rel="nofollow">the one</a> [worldcarfans.com] built by <a href="http://www.pmlflightlink.com/" title="pmlflightlink.com" rel="nofollow">PML</a> [pmlflightlink.com] 3 years ago. The four in-wheel motors was an interesting approach. 640 bhp (477 kW), 60mph in 4.5s. With an integrated 250cc 2-cylinder four-stroke gas engine for long trips. (charging the batteries as you go).</htmltext>
<tokenext>According to TFA , this electric mini does not seem to be related to the one [ worldcarfans.com ] built by PML [ pmlflightlink.com ] 3 years ago .
The four in-wheel motors was an interesting approach .
640 bhp ( 477 kW ) , 60mph in 4.5s .
With an integrated 250cc 2-cylinder four-stroke gas engine for long trips .
( charging the batteries as you go ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to TFA, this electric mini does not seem to be related to the one [worldcarfans.com] built by PML [pmlflightlink.com] 3 years ago.
The four in-wheel motors was an interesting approach.
640 bhp (477 kW), 60mph in 4.5s.
With an integrated 250cc 2-cylinder four-stroke gas engine for long trips.
(charging the batteries as you go).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30322970</id>
	<title>Re:Electric car with problems?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259937420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For example, it is interesting to see how far you could get towards replacing conventional oil (petroleum) if you diverted ALL current vegetable-based oil production to fuel.  Annual global vegetable oil production (palm, soybean, peanut, etc.) is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable\_fats\_and\_oils#Production" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">about 128 million tonnes</a> [wikipedia.org].  That sounds pretty impressive until you realize that annual petroleum production (and consumption) is about 3500 million tonnes.  Vegetable oils are a drop in the bucket!  And, obviously, it would cause rather serious side effects if we suddenly diverted all food-based vegetable oils to fuel anyway.  There are other biofuels, of course, but they don't change the equation enough to make them an easy solution.  It can help, but it's only going to be a component of a solution.</p><p>The real trick is to use vegetable oils that would be disposed of as waste anyway.  While much smaller in volume than total production, at least you aren't directly competing with food uses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For example , it is interesting to see how far you could get towards replacing conventional oil ( petroleum ) if you diverted ALL current vegetable-based oil production to fuel .
Annual global vegetable oil production ( palm , soybean , peanut , etc .
) is about 128 million tonnes [ wikipedia.org ] .
That sounds pretty impressive until you realize that annual petroleum production ( and consumption ) is about 3500 million tonnes .
Vegetable oils are a drop in the bucket !
And , obviously , it would cause rather serious side effects if we suddenly diverted all food-based vegetable oils to fuel anyway .
There are other biofuels , of course , but they do n't change the equation enough to make them an easy solution .
It can help , but it 's only going to be a component of a solution.The real trick is to use vegetable oils that would be disposed of as waste anyway .
While much smaller in volume than total production , at least you are n't directly competing with food uses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For example, it is interesting to see how far you could get towards replacing conventional oil (petroleum) if you diverted ALL current vegetable-based oil production to fuel.
Annual global vegetable oil production (palm, soybean, peanut, etc.
) is about 128 million tonnes [wikipedia.org].
That sounds pretty impressive until you realize that annual petroleum production (and consumption) is about 3500 million tonnes.
Vegetable oils are a drop in the bucket!
And, obviously, it would cause rather serious side effects if we suddenly diverted all food-based vegetable oils to fuel anyway.
There are other biofuels, of course, but they don't change the equation enough to make them an easy solution.
It can help, but it's only going to be a component of a solution.The real trick is to use vegetable oils that would be disposed of as waste anyway.
While much smaller in volume than total production, at least you aren't directly competing with food uses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30330238</id>
	<title>Re:Do the Google!</title>
	<author>Dread\_ed</author>
	<datestamp>1259927160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What do you call a vehicle that is limited to 450 cars, that is available in only two states, and even then by invitation only, is not made on a production line, cannot be bought or sold by the driver, and only costs $850 per month though the build cost is over $150,000?  Sound like a beta to you?  It does to me.</p><p>Also, the fact that Wired magazine explicitly refers to it as a beta test might be a dead giveaway:  <a href="http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/07/bmw-mini-e/" title="wired.com">http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/07/bmw-mini-e/</a> [wired.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What do you call a vehicle that is limited to 450 cars , that is available in only two states , and even then by invitation only , is not made on a production line , can not be bought or sold by the driver , and only costs $ 850 per month though the build cost is over $ 150,000 ?
Sound like a beta to you ?
It does to me.Also , the fact that Wired magazine explicitly refers to it as a beta test might be a dead giveaway : http : //www.wired.com/autopia/2009/07/bmw-mini-e/ [ wired.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What do you call a vehicle that is limited to 450 cars, that is available in only two states, and even then by invitation only, is not made on a production line, cannot be bought or sold by the driver, and only costs $850 per month though the build cost is over $150,000?
Sound like a beta to you?
It does to me.Also, the fact that Wired magazine explicitly refers to it as a beta test might be a dead giveaway:  http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/07/bmw-mini-e/ [wired.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318746</id>
	<title>Re:Electric car with problems?</title>
	<author>wizardforce</author>
	<datestamp>1259844720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No surprise there.  Corn is horrifyingly inefficient for producing Ethanol as a fuel.  Ethanol is highly miscible with water making extraction of the fuel its self rather energy intensive to say nothing of the production of fertilizers etc being petroleum derived.  Algae biodiesel and mycodiesel show much more promise.  The mycodiesel can run off a cellulose feedstock which is handy because that's mostly what you have as a by-product of extracting the lipids from algae.  The lipids are fairly hydrophobic so extraction from a liquid medium isn't that hard.  The only real problem is efficiently breaking the cells and pressing the oils out of them.  Another option is drying the algae and reforming the material using thermal depolymerization and fischer tropsch reactions to synthesize hydrocarbons among many other useful chemicals.  There's even a patent on using a strain of bacteria that can produce ethanol from syngas which is a product of the thermal depolymerization.  iofuels aren't dead, the important game changing ones are just ignored in favor of that failure named corn derived ethanol.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No surprise there .
Corn is horrifyingly inefficient for producing Ethanol as a fuel .
Ethanol is highly miscible with water making extraction of the fuel its self rather energy intensive to say nothing of the production of fertilizers etc being petroleum derived .
Algae biodiesel and mycodiesel show much more promise .
The mycodiesel can run off a cellulose feedstock which is handy because that 's mostly what you have as a by-product of extracting the lipids from algae .
The lipids are fairly hydrophobic so extraction from a liquid medium is n't that hard .
The only real problem is efficiently breaking the cells and pressing the oils out of them .
Another option is drying the algae and reforming the material using thermal depolymerization and fischer tropsch reactions to synthesize hydrocarbons among many other useful chemicals .
There 's even a patent on using a strain of bacteria that can produce ethanol from syngas which is a product of the thermal depolymerization .
iofuels are n't dead , the important game changing ones are just ignored in favor of that failure named corn derived ethanol .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No surprise there.
Corn is horrifyingly inefficient for producing Ethanol as a fuel.
Ethanol is highly miscible with water making extraction of the fuel its self rather energy intensive to say nothing of the production of fertilizers etc being petroleum derived.
Algae biodiesel and mycodiesel show much more promise.
The mycodiesel can run off a cellulose feedstock which is handy because that's mostly what you have as a by-product of extracting the lipids from algae.
The lipids are fairly hydrophobic so extraction from a liquid medium isn't that hard.
The only real problem is efficiently breaking the cells and pressing the oils out of them.
Another option is drying the algae and reforming the material using thermal depolymerization and fischer tropsch reactions to synthesize hydrocarbons among many other useful chemicals.
There's even a patent on using a strain of bacteria that can produce ethanol from syngas which is a product of the thermal depolymerization.
iofuels aren't dead, the important game changing ones are just ignored in favor of that failure named corn derived ethanol.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318546</id>
	<title>Being greener without the electric</title>
	<author>bzipitidoo</author>
	<datestamp>1259843760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Theater isn't limited to security.  There's a lot of "green theater" out there, searching for rich suckers.  One of the rich that sometimes gets suckered is the government.  I regard hybrids and the Prius somewhat skeptically.  It's fuel economy isn't all that great, actually.  Manufacturers are still ignoring a lot of low hanging fruit.  They haven't smoothed the undersides of their cars.  The rims are not aerodynamic.  Car bodies are closer to teardrop shapes than bricks, but there's still plenty of room for improvement.  They're getting better with weight, but they're still using too much steel where lightweight composites or aluminum or lighter alloys could go.  Until fairly recently, they wouldn't even use lighter oils (for instance, 5w20 instead of 10w30), one of the cheapest, easiest ways to get a little more fuel economy.

</p><p>Much better than the Prius is the Ford Fiesta Econetic, a turbodiesel that gets 65 MPG, and it still doesn't cover all the easy ways to increase fuel economy.  It's not a hybrid.  Proof that a lot more can be done, and that manufacturers have yet to get really serious about fuel economy.

</p><p>So where is the 100 MPG vehicle?  I've heard of quite a few prototype vehicles that get over 200 MPG.  It can be done, what's the hold up?  Not enough competition in the automobile market, I guess.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Theater is n't limited to security .
There 's a lot of " green theater " out there , searching for rich suckers .
One of the rich that sometimes gets suckered is the government .
I regard hybrids and the Prius somewhat skeptically .
It 's fuel economy is n't all that great , actually .
Manufacturers are still ignoring a lot of low hanging fruit .
They have n't smoothed the undersides of their cars .
The rims are not aerodynamic .
Car bodies are closer to teardrop shapes than bricks , but there 's still plenty of room for improvement .
They 're getting better with weight , but they 're still using too much steel where lightweight composites or aluminum or lighter alloys could go .
Until fairly recently , they would n't even use lighter oils ( for instance , 5w20 instead of 10w30 ) , one of the cheapest , easiest ways to get a little more fuel economy .
Much better than the Prius is the Ford Fiesta Econetic , a turbodiesel that gets 65 MPG , and it still does n't cover all the easy ways to increase fuel economy .
It 's not a hybrid .
Proof that a lot more can be done , and that manufacturers have yet to get really serious about fuel economy .
So where is the 100 MPG vehicle ?
I 've heard of quite a few prototype vehicles that get over 200 MPG .
It can be done , what 's the hold up ?
Not enough competition in the automobile market , I guess .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Theater isn't limited to security.
There's a lot of "green theater" out there, searching for rich suckers.
One of the rich that sometimes gets suckered is the government.
I regard hybrids and the Prius somewhat skeptically.
It's fuel economy isn't all that great, actually.
Manufacturers are still ignoring a lot of low hanging fruit.
They haven't smoothed the undersides of their cars.
The rims are not aerodynamic.
Car bodies are closer to teardrop shapes than bricks, but there's still plenty of room for improvement.
They're getting better with weight, but they're still using too much steel where lightweight composites or aluminum or lighter alloys could go.
Until fairly recently, they wouldn't even use lighter oils (for instance, 5w20 instead of 10w30), one of the cheapest, easiest ways to get a little more fuel economy.
Much better than the Prius is the Ford Fiesta Econetic, a turbodiesel that gets 65 MPG, and it still doesn't cover all the easy ways to increase fuel economy.
It's not a hybrid.
Proof that a lot more can be done, and that manufacturers have yet to get really serious about fuel economy.
So where is the 100 MPG vehicle?
I've heard of quite a few prototype vehicles that get over 200 MPG.
It can be done, what's the hold up?
Not enough competition in the automobile market, I guess.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318600</id>
	<title>Re:Why?</title>
	<author>trouser</author>
	<datestamp>1259844000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Because like all manufacturers they would be excluded from the Californian market if they fail to offer a vehicle which complies with the Californian "zero emissions" (ie. move the emissions to the power station) requirements. You'll notice the only places the electric Mini is available in North America are New York (no idea why) and California.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Because like all manufacturers they would be excluded from the Californian market if they fail to offer a vehicle which complies with the Californian " zero emissions " ( ie .
move the emissions to the power station ) requirements .
You 'll notice the only places the electric Mini is available in North America are New York ( no idea why ) and California .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because like all manufacturers they would be excluded from the Californian market if they fail to offer a vehicle which complies with the Californian "zero emissions" (ie.
move the emissions to the power station) requirements.
You'll notice the only places the electric Mini is available in North America are New York (no idea why) and California.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318326</id>
	<title>Paying for the privilege?</title>
	<author>twoears</author>
	<datestamp>1259842620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Richard Steinburg, BMW's manager of electric vehicle operations, assures everyone that the manufacturer is 'learning quite a bit as we go.' Drivers are paying $850/month for the privilege of helping BMW learn how to build EVs, while also helping BMW meet alternative fuel mandates so that other models can continue to be sold in select markets."</p></div></blockquote><p>
Paying an exorbitant amount so BMW can learn how to do what they should have done in the first place to get it right? What a novel concept. Give me a fscking break. It's no wonder BMW has lost market share to the competition, and their arrogance in this case proves it's richly deserved.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Richard Steinburg , BMW 's manager of electric vehicle operations , assures everyone that the manufacturer is 'learning quite a bit as we go .
' Drivers are paying $ 850/month for the privilege of helping BMW learn how to build EVs , while also helping BMW meet alternative fuel mandates so that other models can continue to be sold in select markets .
" Paying an exorbitant amount so BMW can learn how to do what they should have done in the first place to get it right ?
What a novel concept .
Give me a fscking break .
It 's no wonder BMW has lost market share to the competition , and their arrogance in this case proves it 's richly deserved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Richard Steinburg, BMW's manager of electric vehicle operations, assures everyone that the manufacturer is 'learning quite a bit as we go.
' Drivers are paying $850/month for the privilege of helping BMW learn how to build EVs, while also helping BMW meet alternative fuel mandates so that other models can continue to be sold in select markets.
"
Paying an exorbitant amount so BMW can learn how to do what they should have done in the first place to get it right?
What a novel concept.
Give me a fscking break.
It's no wonder BMW has lost market share to the competition, and their arrogance in this case proves it's richly deserved.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30323332</id>
	<title>Re:Being greener without the electric</title>
	<author>MobyDisk</author>
	<datestamp>1259940000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Prius is a larger car than a Ford Fiesta.  It is pointless to say "look, car XYZ gets better mileage than a Prius, and it isn't a hybrid!" when that car is half the size.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Prius is a larger car than a Ford Fiesta .
It is pointless to say " look , car XYZ gets better mileage than a Prius , and it is n't a hybrid !
" when that car is half the size .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Prius is a larger car than a Ford Fiesta.
It is pointless to say "look, car XYZ gets better mileage than a Prius, and it isn't a hybrid!
" when that car is half the size.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319462</id>
	<title>Re:$850 a month??</title>
	<author>TooMuchToDo</author>
	<datestamp>1259849040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wouldn't say suckers. You make enough cash, $850/month is disposable income you don't care about. I guess older, used cars are for poor people who lack ambition to earn more. See what I did there?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't say suckers .
You make enough cash , $ 850/month is disposable income you do n't care about .
I guess older , used cars are for poor people who lack ambition to earn more .
See what I did there ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't say suckers.
You make enough cash, $850/month is disposable income you don't care about.
I guess older, used cars are for poor people who lack ambition to earn more.
See what I did there?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319326</id>
	<title>Re:$850 a month??</title>
	<author>GodfatherofSoul</author>
	<datestamp>1259847900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You mean, like every other consumer technology?</htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean , like every other consumer technology ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean, like every other consumer technology?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318086</id>
	<title>You mean</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259841540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>early adopters of prototypes experienced problems?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>early adopters of prototypes experienced problems ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>early adopters of prototypes experienced problems?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319192</id>
	<title>Re:$850 a month??</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259847120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the rest of the world: Thanks to the early adopters !  Of course to the current materialist consumer trend, you appear as sucker.  Their greed blinds them.  They cannot see you for what your are: a philanthropist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From the rest of the world : Thanks to the early adopters !
Of course to the current materialist consumer trend , you appear as sucker .
Their greed blinds them .
They can not see you for what your are : a philanthropist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the rest of the world: Thanks to the early adopters !
Of course to the current materialist consumer trend, you appear as sucker.
Their greed blinds them.
They cannot see you for what your are: a philanthropist.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318092</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318122</id>
	<title>Re:Electric car with problems?</title>
	<author>courteaudotbiz</author>
	<datestamp>1259841720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>That was true ten years ago. But we do realize now that plant based fuels and recycled french fries oil can't power all the cars all over the planet. Unless you want to pay 45$ for your Mini Wheat or 75$ for your pop corn. And transform Central Park, the Bois-de-Boulogne and countless other urban parks into.... cornfields!</htmltext>
<tokenext>That was true ten years ago .
But we do realize now that plant based fuels and recycled french fries oil ca n't power all the cars all over the planet .
Unless you want to pay 45 $ for your Mini Wheat or 75 $ for your pop corn .
And transform Central Park , the Bois-de-Boulogne and countless other urban parks into.... cornfields !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That was true ten years ago.
But we do realize now that plant based fuels and recycled french fries oil can't power all the cars all over the planet.
Unless you want to pay 45$ for your Mini Wheat or 75$ for your pop corn.
And transform Central Park, the Bois-de-Boulogne and countless other urban parks into.... cornfields!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318056</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318864</id>
	<title>Re:Diesels</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259845380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>One reason is that the Hybrids spank TD's on city gas mileage.  Sure TD's get 40-45mpg, but that is on the highway.   In city driving the hybrid's usually beat the TD's.   Here is an article comparing the Jetta TDI &amp; The Prius:<p> <a href="http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new\_cars/4284188.html" title="popularmechanics.com">http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new\_cars/4284188.html</a> [popularmechanics.com]
</p><p>
No doubt that the TD is a more established technology and has many benefits over hybrids, but it does lose out in mpg in a big way when driving in the city.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One reason is that the Hybrids spank TD 's on city gas mileage .
Sure TD 's get 40-45mpg , but that is on the highway .
In city driving the hybrid 's usually beat the TD 's .
Here is an article comparing the Jetta TDI &amp; The Prius : http : //www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new \ _cars/4284188.html [ popularmechanics.com ] No doubt that the TD is a more established technology and has many benefits over hybrids , but it does lose out in mpg in a big way when driving in the city .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One reason is that the Hybrids spank TD's on city gas mileage.
Sure TD's get 40-45mpg, but that is on the highway.
In city driving the hybrid's usually beat the TD's.
Here is an article comparing the Jetta TDI &amp; The Prius: http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new\_cars/4284188.html [popularmechanics.com]

No doubt that the TD is a more established technology and has many benefits over hybrids, but it does lose out in mpg in a big way when driving in the city.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30321054</id>
	<title>Re:Electric car with problems?</title>
	<author>westyvw</author>
	<datestamp>1259863740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe we need to grow more food on our own....and have a few less people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe we need to grow more food on our own....and have a few less people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe we need to grow more food on our own....and have a few less people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30321778</id>
	<title>Re: FYI: diesel is a health hazard</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259918040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel\_particulate\_matter" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>"The main particulate fraction of diesel exhaust consists of small particles. Because of their small size, inhaled particles may easily penetrate deep into the lungs. The rough surfaces of these particles makes it easy for them to bind with other toxins in the environment, thus increasing the hazards of particle inhalation. Exposures have been linked with acute short-term symptoms such as headache, dizziness, light-headedness, nausea, coughing, difficult or labored breathing, tightness of chest, and irritation of the eyes and nose and throat. Long-term exposures can lead to chronic, more serious health problems such as cardiovascular disease, cardiopulmonary disease, and lung cancer."</p><p>I'd pick a gasoline engine any time, for this reason alone.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From Wikipedia [ wikipedia.org ] " The main particulate fraction of diesel exhaust consists of small particles .
Because of their small size , inhaled particles may easily penetrate deep into the lungs .
The rough surfaces of these particles makes it easy for them to bind with other toxins in the environment , thus increasing the hazards of particle inhalation .
Exposures have been linked with acute short-term symptoms such as headache , dizziness , light-headedness , nausea , coughing , difficult or labored breathing , tightness of chest , and irritation of the eyes and nose and throat .
Long-term exposures can lead to chronic , more serious health problems such as cardiovascular disease , cardiopulmonary disease , and lung cancer .
" I 'd pick a gasoline engine any time , for this reason alone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]"The main particulate fraction of diesel exhaust consists of small particles.
Because of their small size, inhaled particles may easily penetrate deep into the lungs.
The rough surfaces of these particles makes it easy for them to bind with other toxins in the environment, thus increasing the hazards of particle inhalation.
Exposures have been linked with acute short-term symptoms such as headache, dizziness, light-headedness, nausea, coughing, difficult or labored breathing, tightness of chest, and irritation of the eyes and nose and throat.
Long-term exposures can lead to chronic, more serious health problems such as cardiovascular disease, cardiopulmonary disease, and lung cancer.
"I'd pick a gasoline engine any time, for this reason alone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318418</id>
	<title>Diesels</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259842980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm still confused about this hybrid thing.  Go to Europe, and you see the same Dodge minivan picking up kids in front of school, but with a turbodiesel.  I know the market is manipulated there too, but I'd prefer the established 40- 45 mpg tech of a TD.  The 335d is a great example.  More Torque than the titans of Detroit of old.  A Peugeot Diesel was my renta-car, and it feared no Berlin Taxi.  I'd take a Jetta TDI over a Prius, etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm still confused about this hybrid thing .
Go to Europe , and you see the same Dodge minivan picking up kids in front of school , but with a turbodiesel .
I know the market is manipulated there too , but I 'd prefer the established 40- 45 mpg tech of a TD .
The 335d is a great example .
More Torque than the titans of Detroit of old .
A Peugeot Diesel was my renta-car , and it feared no Berlin Taxi .
I 'd take a Jetta TDI over a Prius , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm still confused about this hybrid thing.
Go to Europe, and you see the same Dodge minivan picking up kids in front of school, but with a turbodiesel.
I know the market is manipulated there too, but I'd prefer the established 40- 45 mpg tech of a TD.
The 335d is a great example.
More Torque than the titans of Detroit of old.
A Peugeot Diesel was my renta-car, and it feared no Berlin Taxi.
I'd take a Jetta TDI over a Prius, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318618</id>
	<title>Re:Why?</title>
	<author>wizardforce</author>
	<datestamp>1259844060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Think again.  They drove the Prius as fast as they could on that track ending up with 17 mpg.  No one in their right mind would drive that way in the real world.  Sure BMW can make a car that can beat the Prius at 100+ mph but that isn't what the Prius was designed for.  It was designed to drive at speeds commonly used by commuters.  Under those conditions it does very well averaging somewhere in the 40's.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Think again .
They drove the Prius as fast as they could on that track ending up with 17 mpg .
No one in their right mind would drive that way in the real world .
Sure BMW can make a car that can beat the Prius at 100 + mph but that is n't what the Prius was designed for .
It was designed to drive at speeds commonly used by commuters .
Under those conditions it does very well averaging somewhere in the 40 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Think again.
They drove the Prius as fast as they could on that track ending up with 17 mpg.
No one in their right mind would drive that way in the real world.
Sure BMW can make a car that can beat the Prius at 100+ mph but that isn't what the Prius was designed for.
It was designed to drive at speeds commonly used by commuters.
Under those conditions it does very well averaging somewhere in the 40's.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318318</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319802</id>
	<title>Re:Diesels</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1259851800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...40- 45 mpg...</p><p>Diesel fuel is denser than gasoline.  Redo your mileage computations on a km/kg basis and they won't look quite so good.</p><p>&gt; More Torque than the titans of Detroit of old.</p><p>Try a two-cycle diesel (except that you won't be able to find one).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; ...40- 45 mpg...Diesel fuel is denser than gasoline .
Redo your mileage computations on a km/kg basis and they wo n't look quite so good. &gt; More Torque than the titans of Detroit of old.Try a two-cycle diesel ( except that you wo n't be able to find one ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; ...40- 45 mpg...Diesel fuel is denser than gasoline.
Redo your mileage computations on a km/kg basis and they won't look quite so good.&gt; More Torque than the titans of Detroit of old.Try a two-cycle diesel (except that you won't be able to find one).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30320002</id>
	<title>But someone else already released the beta!</title>
	<author>nozendo</author>
	<datestamp>1259853180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancia\_Beta" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancia\_Beta</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>Guess they would have to make this the RC or similar.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancia \ _Beta [ wikipedia.org ] Guess they would have to make this the RC or similar .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancia\_Beta [wikipedia.org]Guess they would have to make this the RC or similar.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30320558</id>
	<title>Re:Being greener without the electric</title>
	<author>Buelldozer</author>
	<datestamp>1259858280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you were involved with the engineering of these things I suspect you'd find that the "hold up" is combination of serviceability and safety regulations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you were involved with the engineering of these things I suspect you 'd find that the " hold up " is combination of serviceability and safety regulations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you were involved with the engineering of these things I suspect you'd find that the "hold up" is combination of serviceability and safety regulations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318546</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30322210</id>
	<title>Re:Diesels</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1259925720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm pleased that they acknowledge that a motorcycle will spank a hybrid though.  Better motive technology is only half the issue; there's far too much dead weight being hauled around the roads.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm pleased that they acknowledge that a motorcycle will spank a hybrid though .
Better motive technology is only half the issue ; there 's far too much dead weight being hauled around the roads .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm pleased that they acknowledge that a motorcycle will spank a hybrid though.
Better motive technology is only half the issue; there's far too much dead weight being hauled around the roads.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318444</id>
	<title>Re:Electric car with problems?</title>
	<author>Atario</author>
	<datestamp>1259843160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You just grow your fuel plants on land that food farms don't use.  Algae farms are perfect for this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You just grow your fuel plants on land that food farms do n't use .
Algae farms are perfect for this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You just grow your fuel plants on land that food farms don't use.
Algae farms are perfect for this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30321998</id>
	<title>Re:Diesels</title>
	<author>Carewolf</author>
	<datestamp>1259921460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> I don't understand why there isn't a hybrid diesel on the market.... Probably cost.</p></div></blockquote><p>I think there is, I could be wrong, but I think I've seen a hybrid diesel Lexus SUV. But given that hybrids are popular in the US, where diesel isn't and the diesel fuel isn't suited for modern diesel engines, I imagine the problem is the market. Hybrids doesn't make sense in Europe, and diesels are unsellable in the US. This leaves hybrid diesels to a limited luxury market of Europeans with too much money.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't understand why there is n't a hybrid diesel on the market.... Probably cost.I think there is , I could be wrong , but I think I 've seen a hybrid diesel Lexus SUV .
But given that hybrids are popular in the US , where diesel is n't and the diesel fuel is n't suited for modern diesel engines , I imagine the problem is the market .
Hybrids does n't make sense in Europe , and diesels are unsellable in the US .
This leaves hybrid diesels to a limited luxury market of Europeans with too much money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I don't understand why there isn't a hybrid diesel on the market.... Probably cost.I think there is, I could be wrong, but I think I've seen a hybrid diesel Lexus SUV.
But given that hybrids are popular in the US, where diesel isn't and the diesel fuel isn't suited for modern diesel engines, I imagine the problem is the market.
Hybrids doesn't make sense in Europe, and diesels are unsellable in the US.
This leaves hybrid diesels to a limited luxury market of Europeans with too much money.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319712</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30320360</id>
	<title>Re:Electric car with problems?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259856540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>haha, if you are using Corn for your ethanol instead of something sugar cane or barley or something like them you deserve to lose your cash.<br>Using corn for ethanol is about like grinding up phonebooks for the ink with how bad it is as a candidate.<br>Me thinks the corn lobby has done its job very well on this with how people keep thinking of corn first for ethanol instead of the plethora of better options.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>haha , if you are using Corn for your ethanol instead of something sugar cane or barley or something like them you deserve to lose your cash.Using corn for ethanol is about like grinding up phonebooks for the ink with how bad it is as a candidate.Me thinks the corn lobby has done its job very well on this with how people keep thinking of corn first for ethanol instead of the plethora of better options .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>haha, if you are using Corn for your ethanol instead of something sugar cane or barley or something like them you deserve to lose your cash.Using corn for ethanol is about like grinding up phonebooks for the ink with how bad it is as a candidate.Me thinks the corn lobby has done its job very well on this with how people keep thinking of corn first for ethanol instead of the plethora of better options.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318122</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30320560</id>
	<title>Re:Why?</title>
	<author>Darth</author>
	<datestamp>1259858280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's top gear; you aren't supposed to be basing anything on it.<br>The purpose of tests on top gear is to "prove" whatever position they have decided to take on some subject...usually in the most ridiculous and dubious way possible.</p><p>Top Gear is about entertainment and spectacle. It is for seeing the new and innovative ways that Jeremy Clarkson can make an ass of himself.</p><p>If you want actual information, you watch 5th Gear.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's top gear ; you are n't supposed to be basing anything on it.The purpose of tests on top gear is to " prove " whatever position they have decided to take on some subject...usually in the most ridiculous and dubious way possible.Top Gear is about entertainment and spectacle .
It is for seeing the new and innovative ways that Jeremy Clarkson can make an ass of himself.If you want actual information , you watch 5th Gear .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's top gear; you aren't supposed to be basing anything on it.The purpose of tests on top gear is to "prove" whatever position they have decided to take on some subject...usually in the most ridiculous and dubious way possible.Top Gear is about entertainment and spectacle.
It is for seeing the new and innovative ways that Jeremy Clarkson can make an ass of himself.If you want actual information, you watch 5th Gear.
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30319058</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30320290</id>
	<title>Re:Diesels</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259855880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm still confused about this hybrid thing.  Go to Europe, and you see the same Dodge minivan picking up kids in front of school, but with a turbodiesel.  I know the market is manipulated there too, but I'd prefer the established 40- 45 mpg tech of a TD.  The 335d is a great example.  More Torque than the titans of Detroit of old.  A Peugeot Diesel was my renta-car, and it feared no Berlin Taxi.  I'd take a Jetta TDI over a Prius, etc.</p></div><p>This post is so inaccurate it's almost a complete joke and it amazes me this is +5 insightful.</p><p>I apologize if my English is poor, but as someone who lives in Berlin, it's clear to me you've probably visited Europe once on vacation and saw one random person driving a weird car for whatever reason, then like most Americans, made the aggrandized generalization that all of Europe must be the same based on one data point in a city known to have a progressive and very individualistic population.  The fact is hardly anyone drives "minivans", much less a Dodge minivan (or any american car or SUV for that matter).  The major car companies here are Renault and BMW and that other Italian company.  Cars are not radically different.  What is different is that most people buy smaller cars because our roads are smaller, lighter cars are more fuel efficient, and because it's extremely rare for anyone to have more than two kids most people don't have enough kids to justify the typical American soccer mom SUV or minivan. Plus, we actually have safe public transportation, so most people don't even cart their kids around everywhere like in the USA, their kids just take public transportation like every other commuter here.  In fact, most schools in Berlin don't even have car pick up places--you probably saw someone dropping their kid off at a store.</p><p>It's an inconvenience and possibly not street legal to drive an over sized, armored American car here.   Our gas is much more expensive than what you pay in the USA, so much of this is driven by economics--what you guys have to look forward to when your gas becomes $8 per liter or whatever the conversion is--except you guys will be decades behind in public transportation infrastructure that you won't be able to fall back on.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm still confused about this hybrid thing .
Go to Europe , and you see the same Dodge minivan picking up kids in front of school , but with a turbodiesel .
I know the market is manipulated there too , but I 'd prefer the established 40- 45 mpg tech of a TD .
The 335d is a great example .
More Torque than the titans of Detroit of old .
A Peugeot Diesel was my renta-car , and it feared no Berlin Taxi .
I 'd take a Jetta TDI over a Prius , etc.This post is so inaccurate it 's almost a complete joke and it amazes me this is + 5 insightful.I apologize if my English is poor , but as someone who lives in Berlin , it 's clear to me you 've probably visited Europe once on vacation and saw one random person driving a weird car for whatever reason , then like most Americans , made the aggrandized generalization that all of Europe must be the same based on one data point in a city known to have a progressive and very individualistic population .
The fact is hardly anyone drives " minivans " , much less a Dodge minivan ( or any american car or SUV for that matter ) .
The major car companies here are Renault and BMW and that other Italian company .
Cars are not radically different .
What is different is that most people buy smaller cars because our roads are smaller , lighter cars are more fuel efficient , and because it 's extremely rare for anyone to have more than two kids most people do n't have enough kids to justify the typical American soccer mom SUV or minivan .
Plus , we actually have safe public transportation , so most people do n't even cart their kids around everywhere like in the USA , their kids just take public transportation like every other commuter here .
In fact , most schools in Berlin do n't even have car pick up places--you probably saw someone dropping their kid off at a store.It 's an inconvenience and possibly not street legal to drive an over sized , armored American car here .
Our gas is much more expensive than what you pay in the USA , so much of this is driven by economics--what you guys have to look forward to when your gas becomes $ 8 per liter or whatever the conversion is--except you guys will be decades behind in public transportation infrastructure that you wo n't be able to fall back on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm still confused about this hybrid thing.
Go to Europe, and you see the same Dodge minivan picking up kids in front of school, but with a turbodiesel.
I know the market is manipulated there too, but I'd prefer the established 40- 45 mpg tech of a TD.
The 335d is a great example.
More Torque than the titans of Detroit of old.
A Peugeot Diesel was my renta-car, and it feared no Berlin Taxi.
I'd take a Jetta TDI over a Prius, etc.This post is so inaccurate it's almost a complete joke and it amazes me this is +5 insightful.I apologize if my English is poor, but as someone who lives in Berlin, it's clear to me you've probably visited Europe once on vacation and saw one random person driving a weird car for whatever reason, then like most Americans, made the aggrandized generalization that all of Europe must be the same based on one data point in a city known to have a progressive and very individualistic population.
The fact is hardly anyone drives "minivans", much less a Dodge minivan (or any american car or SUV for that matter).
The major car companies here are Renault and BMW and that other Italian company.
Cars are not radically different.
What is different is that most people buy smaller cars because our roads are smaller, lighter cars are more fuel efficient, and because it's extremely rare for anyone to have more than two kids most people don't have enough kids to justify the typical American soccer mom SUV or minivan.
Plus, we actually have safe public transportation, so most people don't even cart their kids around everywhere like in the USA, their kids just take public transportation like every other commuter here.
In fact, most schools in Berlin don't even have car pick up places--you probably saw someone dropping their kid off at a store.It's an inconvenience and possibly not street legal to drive an over sized, armored American car here.
Our gas is much more expensive than what you pay in the USA, so much of this is driven by economics--what you guys have to look forward to when your gas becomes $8 per liter or whatever the conversion is--except you guys will be decades behind in public transportation infrastructure that you won't be able to fall back on.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318418</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_03_2236223.30318134</id>
	<title>BMW has it right</title>
	<author>pieisgood</author>
	<datestamp>1259841780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why invest a lot of money and time into an electric car that won't sell well when you can put money and time into the M series which already kicks ass and has a great image?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why invest a lot of money and time into an electric car that wo n't sell well when you can put money and time into the M series which already kicks ass and has a great image ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why invest a lot of money and time into an electric car that won't sell well when you can put money and time into the M series which already kicks ass and has a great image?</sentencetext>
</comment>
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