<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_12_01_070232</id>
	<title>Games Workshop Goes After Fan Site</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1259658180000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="mailto:mark.leaman+slashdot@gmail" rel="nofollow">mark.leaman</a> writes <i>"BoingBoing has a recent post regarding <a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/28/games-workshop-decla.html">Games Workshop's aggressive posturing against fan sites</a> featuring derivative work of their game products. 'Game publisher and miniature manufacturer Games Workshop just sent a cease and desist letter to boardgamegeek.com, telling them to remove all fan-made players' aids. This includes scenarios, rules summaries, inventory manifests, scans to help replace worn pieces &mdash; many of these created for long out of print, well-loved games...' As a lifelong hobby gamer of table, board, card and miniature games, I view this as pure heresy. It made me reject the idea of buying any Games Workshop (read <em>Warhammer</em>) products for my son this Christmas. Their fate was sealed, in terms of my wallet, after I Googled their shenanigans. In 2007 they <a href="http://games.slashdot.org/story/07/07/11/1536240/Games-Workshop-Forbids-Warhammer-Fan-Films">forbid <em>Warhammer</em> fan films</a>, this year they <a href="http://gamingdead.com/2009/07/26/games-workshop-shuts-down-vassal">shut down Vassal Modules</a>,  and a while back they <a href="http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/2619.html">went after retailers</a> as well. What ever happened to fair use?"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>mark.leaman writes " BoingBoing has a recent post regarding Games Workshop 's aggressive posturing against fan sites featuring derivative work of their game products .
'Game publisher and miniature manufacturer Games Workshop just sent a cease and desist letter to boardgamegeek.com , telling them to remove all fan-made players ' aids .
This includes scenarios , rules summaries , inventory manifests , scans to help replace worn pieces    many of these created for long out of print , well-loved games... ' As a lifelong hobby gamer of table , board , card and miniature games , I view this as pure heresy .
It made me reject the idea of buying any Games Workshop ( read Warhammer ) products for my son this Christmas .
Their fate was sealed , in terms of my wallet , after I Googled their shenanigans .
In 2007 they forbid Warhammer fan films , this year they shut down Vassal Modules , and a while back they went after retailers as well .
What ever happened to fair use ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>mark.leaman writes "BoingBoing has a recent post regarding Games Workshop's aggressive posturing against fan sites featuring derivative work of their game products.
'Game publisher and miniature manufacturer Games Workshop just sent a cease and desist letter to boardgamegeek.com, telling them to remove all fan-made players' aids.
This includes scenarios, rules summaries, inventory manifests, scans to help replace worn pieces — many of these created for long out of print, well-loved games...' As a lifelong hobby gamer of table, board, card and miniature games, I view this as pure heresy.
It made me reject the idea of buying any Games Workshop (read Warhammer) products for my son this Christmas.
Their fate was sealed, in terms of my wallet, after I Googled their shenanigans.
In 2007 they forbid Warhammer fan films, this year they shut down Vassal Modules,  and a while back they went after retailers as well.
What ever happened to fair use?
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30291176</id>
	<title>Re:Open Source Gaming</title>
	<author>Chelloveck</author>
	<datestamp>1259672340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>Do we have the technology for Open Source miniatures to work? It's certainly easy enough to make a lossy reproduction of a suitably designed miniature, by making a mould and melting some lead. 3D printing could become mainstream soonish. It just needs enough people to be interested.</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>Sculpted miniatures are nice, but the games play just as well with <a href="http://www.sjgames.com/heroes/" title="sjgames.com">cardstock cut-outs</a> [sjgames.com]. The ones I linked to are for sale, but Steve Jackson has no proprietary claim to the technology of printing a figure on a piece of heavy paper and folding it. You just need to find someone who can draw better than a stick figure(*) to do the artwork.

</p><p>(* Not that <b>XKCD: The Role-Playing Game</b> wouldn't be... interesting.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do we have the technology for Open Source miniatures to work ?
It 's certainly easy enough to make a lossy reproduction of a suitably designed miniature , by making a mould and melting some lead .
3D printing could become mainstream soonish .
It just needs enough people to be interested .
Sculpted miniatures are nice , but the games play just as well with cardstock cut-outs [ sjgames.com ] .
The ones I linked to are for sale , but Steve Jackson has no proprietary claim to the technology of printing a figure on a piece of heavy paper and folding it .
You just need to find someone who can draw better than a stick figure ( * ) to do the artwork .
( * Not that XKCD : The Role-Playing Game would n't be.. .
interesting. )</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Do we have the technology for Open Source miniatures to work?
It's certainly easy enough to make a lossy reproduction of a suitably designed miniature, by making a mould and melting some lead.
3D printing could become mainstream soonish.
It just needs enough people to be interested.
Sculpted miniatures are nice, but the games play just as well with cardstock cut-outs [sjgames.com].
The ones I linked to are for sale, but Steve Jackson has no proprietary claim to the technology of printing a figure on a piece of heavy paper and folding it.
You just need to find someone who can draw better than a stick figure(*) to do the artwork.
(* Not that XKCD: The Role-Playing Game wouldn't be...
interesting.)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281588</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280778</id>
	<title>Fair use is a legal right...</title>
	<author>calmofthestorm</author>
	<datestamp>1259662320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>meaning you have to fight for it in court which, in the American Legal System means you need to have deep pockets. Most people don't have the cash/want the hassle and so they just fold, even in extremely clear cut cases on their side.</p><p>Fortunately, once ACTA passes we won't have to worry about protecting fair use anymore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>meaning you have to fight for it in court which , in the American Legal System means you need to have deep pockets .
Most people do n't have the cash/want the hassle and so they just fold , even in extremely clear cut cases on their side.Fortunately , once ACTA passes we wo n't have to worry about protecting fair use anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>meaning you have to fight for it in court which, in the American Legal System means you need to have deep pockets.
Most people don't have the cash/want the hassle and so they just fold, even in extremely clear cut cases on their side.Fortunately, once ACTA passes we won't have to worry about protecting fair use anymore.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30283720</id>
	<title>Re:Open Source Gaming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259685240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>having made a gaming system (thus posting ac) I have to say, This Ain't Easy.</p><p>good luck! and I'll try it out and contribute, time allowing, but it takes more than a weekend to even build a halfway decent framework</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>having made a gaming system ( thus posting ac ) I have to say , This Ai n't Easy.good luck !
and I 'll try it out and contribute , time allowing , but it takes more than a weekend to even build a halfway decent framework</tokentext>
<sentencetext>having made a gaming system (thus posting ac) I have to say, This Ain't Easy.good luck!
and I'll try it out and contribute, time allowing, but it takes more than a weekend to even build a halfway decent framework</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30290404</id>
	<title>That's it.</title>
	<author>Nicolay77</author>
	<datestamp>1259668680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm deleting the Warhammer demo from my Steam account.</p><p>That will show 'em!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm deleting the Warhammer demo from my Steam account.That will show 'em !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm deleting the Warhammer demo from my Steam account.That will show 'em!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30284264</id>
	<title>People who can use their miniatures buy more</title>
	<author>uckelman</author>
	<datestamp>1259687640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm one of the VASSAL developers. When GW forced the Vassal40k module designers to stop distributing their module, the most common complaint I heard was from people who used the module for planning out their Warhammer 40K armies. In other words, I was reading complaints from people who used the module to plan their purchases. With a way to test out armies before buying, these people are enthusiastic customers. Without a way to test out armies, these people are disinclined to buy miniatures. Another common complaint was from people who had no local opponents, but still wanted to play W40K. Same story here: If they can use their miniatures this way, theses people are happy to purchase some; if they can't, they won't open their wallets.</p><p>In the short run, shutting down the Vassal40k developers might look to GW like a good decision, but in the long run it's only going to lose them customers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm one of the VASSAL developers .
When GW forced the Vassal40k module designers to stop distributing their module , the most common complaint I heard was from people who used the module for planning out their Warhammer 40K armies .
In other words , I was reading complaints from people who used the module to plan their purchases .
With a way to test out armies before buying , these people are enthusiastic customers .
Without a way to test out armies , these people are disinclined to buy miniatures .
Another common complaint was from people who had no local opponents , but still wanted to play W40K .
Same story here : If they can use their miniatures this way , theses people are happy to purchase some ; if they ca n't , they wo n't open their wallets.In the short run , shutting down the Vassal40k developers might look to GW like a good decision , but in the long run it 's only going to lose them customers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm one of the VASSAL developers.
When GW forced the Vassal40k module designers to stop distributing their module, the most common complaint I heard was from people who used the module for planning out their Warhammer 40K armies.
In other words, I was reading complaints from people who used the module to plan their purchases.
With a way to test out armies before buying, these people are enthusiastic customers.
Without a way to test out armies, these people are disinclined to buy miniatures.
Another common complaint was from people who had no local opponents, but still wanted to play W40K.
Same story here: If they can use their miniatures this way, theses people are happy to purchase some; if they can't, they won't open their wallets.In the short run, shutting down the Vassal40k developers might look to GW like a good decision, but in the long run it's only going to lose them customers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280764</id>
	<title>No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259662140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Games Workshop have every right to go after this kind of flagrant IP violation. After all, the company spent countless hours and huge amounts of money inventing orcs, elves, vampires, zombies and dwarves. They should be able to benefit from their creative efforts without some "fan" treating it as if it were in the public domain!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Games Workshop have every right to go after this kind of flagrant IP violation .
After all , the company spent countless hours and huge amounts of money inventing orcs , elves , vampires , zombies and dwarves .
They should be able to benefit from their creative efforts without some " fan " treating it as if it were in the public domain !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Games Workshop have every right to go after this kind of flagrant IP violation.
After all, the company spent countless hours and huge amounts of money inventing orcs, elves, vampires, zombies and dwarves.
They should be able to benefit from their creative efforts without some "fan" treating it as if it were in the public domain!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282062</id>
	<title>Re:Space Hulk</title>
	<author>phiwum</author>
	<datestamp>1259676240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> as well as about 10 pages of <b>solid fluff</b> for the Iron Kingdoms,</p></div><p>I have nothing to add.  I just like saying "solid fluff".</p><p>Solid fluff. Solid fluff. Solid fluff.</p><p>Solid fluff.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>as well as about 10 pages of solid fluff for the Iron Kingdoms,I have nothing to add .
I just like saying " solid fluff " .Solid fluff .
Solid fluff .
Solid fluff.Solid fluff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> as well as about 10 pages of solid fluff for the Iron Kingdoms,I have nothing to add.
I just like saying "solid fluff".Solid fluff.
Solid fluff.
Solid fluff.Solid fluff.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281128</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282680</id>
	<title>Re:GW</title>
	<author>nosferatu1001</author>
	<datestamp>1259680320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Huh?</p><p>GW keep wargaming alive, as they bring in new players.  Hence the term "Gateway drug" - PP would die a death as it tends to attract people who already play WG.  THey also have the money to invest and actually innovate - like the washes, foundation paints, full 3D rendering and production of HIGH cost plastic moulds (you say they are "cheaper plastics" - only once you have paid for the mould, at &pound;30k per avg sprue, &pound;90k for the Baneblade sprues.  Still think theyre cheap? Or you still talking out of your arse?) - that PP et al cannot hope to match.  Never mind the gaming boards, spray paint that actually undercoats without losing detail (noticed how the non-GW has changed recently?  GW have licensed this out...) and without streaking / bobbling, and the other innovations.  they don't do everhything perfectly (seriously, vac formed blast scapes? Thats worthy of a lesser company, they moved from vac form crap years ago for everything else) - least of which is writing a tight set of rules witihni every army book.  However they stilld o far more good for the community?</p><p>"Keep releasing new editions" - once every 6 years?  Care to supply how many Warmachine versions there have been in the last 5 years, and how many reprints?  Oh wait, that would undermine your point!  PP is also 1/3rd owned by GW....</p><p>They have also stated they write *1* FAQ to avoid the horrible mess you had in the past.  But again, you dont know that, or choose not to mention this as it undermines your point.  Again.</p><p>40k 5th ed is a vastly more tactical game than warmachine or 4th ed 40k, yet you won't know this.  You jsut claim, without proof, that the game has been dumbed down - yet I was 12 when I picked up 2nd ed, and 12year olds pick up 5th ed now.  The exact same market has been targetted for the last 20years, ever since retail opened - or are you too<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. ignorant to understand that?</p><p>Disclaimer - I don't work for GW, my bd used to and left because, sadly, the people side of GW is run atrociously.  However the quality of the miniatures has never been higher (waiting for Blancheites to counter, to which the counter is look at new skaven, theyre modelled off original artowrk...) and the actual products they sell are very high quality.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Huh ? GW keep wargaming alive , as they bring in new players .
Hence the term " Gateway drug " - PP would die a death as it tends to attract people who already play WG .
THey also have the money to invest and actually innovate - like the washes , foundation paints , full 3D rendering and production of HIGH cost plastic moulds ( you say they are " cheaper plastics " - only once you have paid for the mould , at   30k per avg sprue ,   90k for the Baneblade sprues .
Still think theyre cheap ?
Or you still talking out of your arse ?
) - that PP et al can not hope to match .
Never mind the gaming boards , spray paint that actually undercoats without losing detail ( noticed how the non-GW has changed recently ?
GW have licensed this out... ) and without streaking / bobbling , and the other innovations .
they do n't do everhything perfectly ( seriously , vac formed blast scapes ?
Thats worthy of a lesser company , they moved from vac form crap years ago for everything else ) - least of which is writing a tight set of rules witihni every army book .
However they stilld o far more good for the community ?
" Keep releasing new editions " - once every 6 years ?
Care to supply how many Warmachine versions there have been in the last 5 years , and how many reprints ?
Oh wait , that would undermine your point !
PP is also 1/3rd owned by GW....They have also stated they write * 1 * FAQ to avoid the horrible mess you had in the past .
But again , you dont know that , or choose not to mention this as it undermines your point .
Again.40k 5th ed is a vastly more tactical game than warmachine or 4th ed 40k , yet you wo n't know this .
You jsut claim , without proof , that the game has been dumbed down - yet I was 12 when I picked up 2nd ed , and 12year olds pick up 5th ed now .
The exact same market has been targetted for the last 20years , ever since retail opened - or are you too / .
ignorant to understand that ? Disclaimer - I do n't work for GW , my bd used to and left because , sadly , the people side of GW is run atrociously .
However the quality of the miniatures has never been higher ( waiting for Blancheites to counter , to which the counter is look at new skaven , theyre modelled off original artowrk... ) and the actual products they sell are very high quality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Huh?GW keep wargaming alive, as they bring in new players.
Hence the term "Gateway drug" - PP would die a death as it tends to attract people who already play WG.
THey also have the money to invest and actually innovate - like the washes, foundation paints, full 3D rendering and production of HIGH cost plastic moulds (you say they are "cheaper plastics" - only once you have paid for the mould, at £30k per avg sprue, £90k for the Baneblade sprues.
Still think theyre cheap?
Or you still talking out of your arse?
) - that PP et al cannot hope to match.
Never mind the gaming boards, spray paint that actually undercoats without losing detail (noticed how the non-GW has changed recently?
GW have licensed this out...) and without streaking / bobbling, and the other innovations.
they don't do everhything perfectly (seriously, vac formed blast scapes?
Thats worthy of a lesser company, they moved from vac form crap years ago for everything else) - least of which is writing a tight set of rules witihni every army book.
However they stilld o far more good for the community?
"Keep releasing new editions" - once every 6 years?
Care to supply how many Warmachine versions there have been in the last 5 years, and how many reprints?
Oh wait, that would undermine your point!
PP is also 1/3rd owned by GW....They have also stated they write *1* FAQ to avoid the horrible mess you had in the past.
But again, you dont know that, or choose not to mention this as it undermines your point.
Again.40k 5th ed is a vastly more tactical game than warmachine or 4th ed 40k, yet you won't know this.
You jsut claim, without proof, that the game has been dumbed down - yet I was 12 when I picked up 2nd ed, and 12year olds pick up 5th ed now.
The exact same market has been targetted for the last 20years, ever since retail opened - or are you too /.
ignorant to understand that?Disclaimer - I don't work for GW, my bd used to and left because, sadly, the people side of GW is run atrociously.
However the quality of the miniatures has never been higher (waiting for Blancheites to counter, to which the counter is look at new skaven, theyre modelled off original artowrk...) and the actual products they sell are very high quality.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281194</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30287778</id>
	<title>Re:Heroquest...</title>
	<author>CaptainPinko</author>
	<datestamp>1259700900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You might want to consider <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeroScape" title="wikipedia.org">HeroScape</a> [wikipedia.org]. It is similar in nature and available from WalMart, Toys'R'Us, and <a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb\_ss\_0\_7?url=search-alias\%3Dtoys-and-games&amp;field-keywords=heroscape&amp;x=0&amp;y=0&amp;sprefix=herosca" title="amazon.com">Amazon</a> [amazon.com]. I've been looking into using it for our D&amp;D campaign.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You might want to consider HeroScape [ wikipedia.org ] .
It is similar in nature and available from WalMart , Toys'R'Us , and Amazon [ amazon.com ] .
I 've been looking into using it for our D&amp;D campaign .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You might want to consider HeroScape [wikipedia.org].
It is similar in nature and available from WalMart, Toys'R'Us, and Amazon [amazon.com].
I've been looking into using it for our D&amp;D campaign.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30285266</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281690</id>
	<title>Re:No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1259672340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I knew it! Tolkien was pirating from Games Workshop and Blizzard all along!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I knew it !
Tolkien was pirating from Games Workshop and Blizzard all along !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I knew it!
Tolkien was pirating from Games Workshop and Blizzard all along!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282444</id>
	<title>Typical Games Workshop</title>
	<author>Carik</author>
	<datestamp>1259679060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I started playing Warhammer in about 1995, and have played off and on since then.  In that time, they've modified the background on most of the world they ripped off... er, created so much that a lot of the original miniatures and rules no longer work.  They've also introduced, with great fanfare, and then eliminated a whole lot of games.  What are some of GW's best games?  Mordheim (discontinued), BloodBowl (discontinued, though I expect it will come back now they've got a computer version), Battlefleet Gothic (discontinued)... there's also Space Hulk, WarMaster, Epic 40K, Inquisiter, and others, all released, pushed until they got popular, then canceled.  THAT was why I gave up on GW.</p><p>I'm much more interested in small skirmish-type games than army-based games, and every time GW created one, they waited until they'd gotten a lot of new players hooked, then shut them down.  All just part of a plan to get people over to WH and 40K.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I started playing Warhammer in about 1995 , and have played off and on since then .
In that time , they 've modified the background on most of the world they ripped off... er , created so much that a lot of the original miniatures and rules no longer work .
They 've also introduced , with great fanfare , and then eliminated a whole lot of games .
What are some of GW 's best games ?
Mordheim ( discontinued ) , BloodBowl ( discontinued , though I expect it will come back now they 've got a computer version ) , Battlefleet Gothic ( discontinued ) ... there 's also Space Hulk , WarMaster , Epic 40K , Inquisiter , and others , all released , pushed until they got popular , then canceled .
THAT was why I gave up on GW.I 'm much more interested in small skirmish-type games than army-based games , and every time GW created one , they waited until they 'd gotten a lot of new players hooked , then shut them down .
All just part of a plan to get people over to WH and 40K .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I started playing Warhammer in about 1995, and have played off and on since then.
In that time, they've modified the background on most of the world they ripped off... er, created so much that a lot of the original miniatures and rules no longer work.
They've also introduced, with great fanfare, and then eliminated a whole lot of games.
What are some of GW's best games?
Mordheim (discontinued), BloodBowl (discontinued, though I expect it will come back now they've got a computer version), Battlefleet Gothic (discontinued)... there's also Space Hulk, WarMaster, Epic 40K, Inquisiter, and others, all released, pushed until they got popular, then canceled.
THAT was why I gave up on GW.I'm much more interested in small skirmish-type games than army-based games, and every time GW created one, they waited until they'd gotten a lot of new players hooked, then shut them down.
All just part of a plan to get people over to WH and 40K.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30297060</id>
	<title>Re:No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>nosferatu1001</author>
	<datestamp>1259595660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, except for the facts that</p><p>a) Games Workshop sells to distributors at 25\% below retail, which is why they can offer between 10 and 15\% off shop price (see Wayland Games - an actual source, compared to your baseless rant!) and does NOT forbid sales, hence why Wayland had a sale when the Valkyries were released</p><p>b) GW are themselves restrained from offering sales, even on damaged stock, due to a Competition Commision ruling from about 6 years ago.  They can NEVER reduce instore prices to below MSRP.</p><p>c) Our local indy stocks GW specialist games just fine - and they dont have to have 60\% shelf space etc.</p><p>In short what you said was complete crap.  Well done/.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , except for the facts thata ) Games Workshop sells to distributors at 25 \ % below retail , which is why they can offer between 10 and 15 \ % off shop price ( see Wayland Games - an actual source , compared to your baseless rant !
) and does NOT forbid sales , hence why Wayland had a sale when the Valkyries were releasedb ) GW are themselves restrained from offering sales , even on damaged stock , due to a Competition Commision ruling from about 6 years ago .
They can NEVER reduce instore prices to below MSRP.c ) Our local indy stocks GW specialist games just fine - and they dont have to have 60 \ % shelf space etc.In short what you said was complete crap .
Well done/ .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, except for the facts thata) Games Workshop sells to distributors at 25\% below retail, which is why they can offer between 10 and 15\% off shop price (see Wayland Games - an actual source, compared to your baseless rant!
) and does NOT forbid sales, hence why Wayland had a sale when the Valkyries were releasedb) GW are themselves restrained from offering sales, even on damaged stock, due to a Competition Commision ruling from about 6 years ago.
They can NEVER reduce instore prices to below MSRP.c) Our local indy stocks GW specialist games just fine - and they dont have to have 60\% shelf space etc.In short what you said was complete crap.
Well done/.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282420</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281994</id>
	<title>Lesson of TSR</title>
	<author>markov23</author>
	<datestamp>1259675460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>We used to have a company called TSR that behaved this way -- they sued all of the their fans that tried to keep D&amp;D alive and didnt understand the economics of this type of community.   When wizards got the license -- regardless of all of the harping on this forum about them -- they embraced this type of community and created the OGL.   Their discussion with publishers was we can either fight over each piece off the pie or try and make the pie bigger.   It was a completely different approach and it worked amazingly well.  GW will figure that out at some point -- or go away like TSR.

GW has every right to protect their ip -- it is theirs and they spent a lot of money developing it -- it just may be bad business to go about it the way that they are.

And Im sure ill get abused for this next comment -- but with all of the slamming of wizards in this forum about them not being open -- you are confusing open for free.   Open is important for the community -- free is not.  If free is the most important aspect of a gaming system -- stay away from rpgs -- I play them and I want professional content created by talented people -- and those people like to get paid.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We used to have a company called TSR that behaved this way -- they sued all of the their fans that tried to keep D&amp;D alive and didnt understand the economics of this type of community .
When wizards got the license -- regardless of all of the harping on this forum about them -- they embraced this type of community and created the OGL .
Their discussion with publishers was we can either fight over each piece off the pie or try and make the pie bigger .
It was a completely different approach and it worked amazingly well .
GW will figure that out at some point -- or go away like TSR .
GW has every right to protect their ip -- it is theirs and they spent a lot of money developing it -- it just may be bad business to go about it the way that they are .
And Im sure ill get abused for this next comment -- but with all of the slamming of wizards in this forum about them not being open -- you are confusing open for free .
Open is important for the community -- free is not .
If free is the most important aspect of a gaming system -- stay away from rpgs -- I play them and I want professional content created by talented people -- and those people like to get paid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We used to have a company called TSR that behaved this way -- they sued all of the their fans that tried to keep D&amp;D alive and didnt understand the economics of this type of community.
When wizards got the license -- regardless of all of the harping on this forum about them -- they embraced this type of community and created the OGL.
Their discussion with publishers was we can either fight over each piece off the pie or try and make the pie bigger.
It was a completely different approach and it worked amazingly well.
GW will figure that out at some point -- or go away like TSR.
GW has every right to protect their ip -- it is theirs and they spent a lot of money developing it -- it just may be bad business to go about it the way that they are.
And Im sure ill get abused for this next comment -- but with all of the slamming of wizards in this forum about them not being open -- you are confusing open for free.
Open is important for the community -- free is not.
If free is the most important aspect of a gaming system -- stay away from rpgs -- I play them and I want professional content created by talented people -- and those people like to get paid.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280976</id>
	<title>Re:No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259664240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's ironic that you mention Tolkien's invented Goblin-like creatures in the same breath as those ossified archetypes based upon longer tradition.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's ironic that you mention Tolkien 's invented Goblin-like creatures in the same breath as those ossified archetypes based upon longer tradition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's ironic that you mention Tolkien's invented Goblin-like creatures in the same breath as those ossified archetypes based upon longer tradition.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280866</id>
	<title>F'ed over the RPG crowd too</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259663220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A while back there was much gnashing of teeth in the RPG community because GW's book publishing arm, Black Industries, decided to cancel the RPG (which, by most accounts, had a reasonable level of popularity and success) so they could focus on the novels. This came right around the time I was tentatively getting into Warhammer, and after they did this I went to the GW store at the local mall and asked the manager there to relay the message to his corporate overlords that they'd lost a customer over there actions. And before you start yelling at me, I was polite and I know it wasn't his fault; I just felt that was the best way for me to personally send a message.</p><p>Then a few weeks (or months?) later, Fantasy Flight Games got the license to produce the Warhammer RPGs. Of course, by then I'd already gotten the WH bug out of my system. Which in retrospect was good, since the GW store actually shut down not too much later, meaning if I had gotten into it I wouldn't have had a place to play anyways.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/Cool story, bro</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A while back there was much gnashing of teeth in the RPG community because GW 's book publishing arm , Black Industries , decided to cancel the RPG ( which , by most accounts , had a reasonable level of popularity and success ) so they could focus on the novels .
This came right around the time I was tentatively getting into Warhammer , and after they did this I went to the GW store at the local mall and asked the manager there to relay the message to his corporate overlords that they 'd lost a customer over there actions .
And before you start yelling at me , I was polite and I know it was n't his fault ; I just felt that was the best way for me to personally send a message.Then a few weeks ( or months ?
) later , Fantasy Flight Games got the license to produce the Warhammer RPGs .
Of course , by then I 'd already gotten the WH bug out of my system .
Which in retrospect was good , since the GW store actually shut down not too much later , meaning if I had gotten into it I would n't have had a place to play anyways .
/Cool story , bro</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A while back there was much gnashing of teeth in the RPG community because GW's book publishing arm, Black Industries, decided to cancel the RPG (which, by most accounts, had a reasonable level of popularity and success) so they could focus on the novels.
This came right around the time I was tentatively getting into Warhammer, and after they did this I went to the GW store at the local mall and asked the manager there to relay the message to his corporate overlords that they'd lost a customer over there actions.
And before you start yelling at me, I was polite and I know it wasn't his fault; I just felt that was the best way for me to personally send a message.Then a few weeks (or months?
) later, Fantasy Flight Games got the license to produce the Warhammer RPGs.
Of course, by then I'd already gotten the WH bug out of my system.
Which in retrospect was good, since the GW store actually shut down not too much later, meaning if I had gotten into it I wouldn't have had a place to play anyways.
/Cool story, bro</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282420</id>
	<title>Re:No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>Moryath</author>
	<datestamp>1259678940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're joking, right? I can see, MAYBE, on the distributing of scans to keep games in service, but even that pushes the limit when you're talking about games with write-on-and-throw-away tracking sheets.</p><p>Games Jerkshop have no love from me on the storefront area either. You know what they do to regular game shops, right? If you want to carry their "product" and have gamedays/tournaments, they demand 60\% of your shelf space, have a list a mile long of "competing products" that you have to agree never to stock, insist you carry a certain dollar-amount of product on shelf at all times and never hold a sale.</p><p>Then, when YOU the game store have built up the community, they plop down an "Official Games Workshop" store half a mile down the road, undercut you by selling everything at a 10\% discount (remember, YOU are contractually obligated not even to hold a sale), and deliberately do their best to put you under so that nobody in the area is selling anything but GW games. Hell, at one point they actually tried to put Reaper Miniatures and D&amp;D Miniatures on their "products you will not sell" list.</p><p>I for one think it would be best for the world if Games Jerkshop were to fold tomorrow and their IP scatter to the four winds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're joking , right ?
I can see , MAYBE , on the distributing of scans to keep games in service , but even that pushes the limit when you 're talking about games with write-on-and-throw-away tracking sheets.Games Jerkshop have no love from me on the storefront area either .
You know what they do to regular game shops , right ?
If you want to carry their " product " and have gamedays/tournaments , they demand 60 \ % of your shelf space , have a list a mile long of " competing products " that you have to agree never to stock , insist you carry a certain dollar-amount of product on shelf at all times and never hold a sale.Then , when YOU the game store have built up the community , they plop down an " Official Games Workshop " store half a mile down the road , undercut you by selling everything at a 10 \ % discount ( remember , YOU are contractually obligated not even to hold a sale ) , and deliberately do their best to put you under so that nobody in the area is selling anything but GW games .
Hell , at one point they actually tried to put Reaper Miniatures and D&amp;D Miniatures on their " products you will not sell " list.I for one think it would be best for the world if Games Jerkshop were to fold tomorrow and their IP scatter to the four winds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're joking, right?
I can see, MAYBE, on the distributing of scans to keep games in service, but even that pushes the limit when you're talking about games with write-on-and-throw-away tracking sheets.Games Jerkshop have no love from me on the storefront area either.
You know what they do to regular game shops, right?
If you want to carry their "product" and have gamedays/tournaments, they demand 60\% of your shelf space, have a list a mile long of "competing products" that you have to agree never to stock, insist you carry a certain dollar-amount of product on shelf at all times and never hold a sale.Then, when YOU the game store have built up the community, they plop down an "Official Games Workshop" store half a mile down the road, undercut you by selling everything at a 10\% discount (remember, YOU are contractually obligated not even to hold a sale), and deliberately do their best to put you under so that nobody in the area is selling anything but GW games.
Hell, at one point they actually tried to put Reaper Miniatures and D&amp;D Miniatures on their "products you will not sell" list.I for one think it would be best for the world if Games Jerkshop were to fold tomorrow and their IP scatter to the four winds.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30293336</id>
	<title>Re:No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>Lunzo</author>
	<datestamp>1259687520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been collecting GW minis for on and off over the past 12 years. I've never seen what you describe, although maybe things are different in the USA?
</p><p>
In Australia the independent retailers who carry GW products usually have a tiny little section of Warhammer. I've never seen any store carry 60\% or more of their floorspace as Warhammer. The prices at these stores are always around 10\% cheaper than GW. Warhammer can be purchased cheaper still by ordering from the UK (especially at the moment with currency prices). When ordering from the UK online the GW UK site is a good saving over prices in local stores, however the independent retailers in the UK are cheaper still than the official GW prices. I recommend <a href="http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/" title="maelstromgames.co.uk">Maelstrom Games</a> [maelstromgames.co.uk], who are not only cheaper than Games Workshop but carry the full GW range as well as plenty of other brands of minis.
</p><p>
 N.B. I'm not affiliated with Maelstrom, just a satisfied customer. I'm also a satisfied customer of the UK GW mail order thanks to a good experience. They sent me 6 blister packs of the wrong model and when I notified them of the mistake they said to keep the incorrect item and promptly sent the correct thing at no charge.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been collecting GW minis for on and off over the past 12 years .
I 've never seen what you describe , although maybe things are different in the USA ?
In Australia the independent retailers who carry GW products usually have a tiny little section of Warhammer .
I 've never seen any store carry 60 \ % or more of their floorspace as Warhammer .
The prices at these stores are always around 10 \ % cheaper than GW .
Warhammer can be purchased cheaper still by ordering from the UK ( especially at the moment with currency prices ) .
When ordering from the UK online the GW UK site is a good saving over prices in local stores , however the independent retailers in the UK are cheaper still than the official GW prices .
I recommend Maelstrom Games [ maelstromgames.co.uk ] , who are not only cheaper than Games Workshop but carry the full GW range as well as plenty of other brands of minis .
N.B. I 'm not affiliated with Maelstrom , just a satisfied customer .
I 'm also a satisfied customer of the UK GW mail order thanks to a good experience .
They sent me 6 blister packs of the wrong model and when I notified them of the mistake they said to keep the incorrect item and promptly sent the correct thing at no charge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been collecting GW minis for on and off over the past 12 years.
I've never seen what you describe, although maybe things are different in the USA?
In Australia the independent retailers who carry GW products usually have a tiny little section of Warhammer.
I've never seen any store carry 60\% or more of their floorspace as Warhammer.
The prices at these stores are always around 10\% cheaper than GW.
Warhammer can be purchased cheaper still by ordering from the UK (especially at the moment with currency prices).
When ordering from the UK online the GW UK site is a good saving over prices in local stores, however the independent retailers in the UK are cheaper still than the official GW prices.
I recommend Maelstrom Games [maelstromgames.co.uk], who are not only cheaper than Games Workshop but carry the full GW range as well as plenty of other brands of minis.
N.B. I'm not affiliated with Maelstrom, just a satisfied customer.
I'm also a satisfied customer of the UK GW mail order thanks to a good experience.
They sent me 6 blister packs of the wrong model and when I notified them of the mistake they said to keep the incorrect item and promptly sent the correct thing at no charge.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282420</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30285140</id>
	<title>Re:Wouldn't want that now would we?</title>
	<author>nhytefall</author>
	<datestamp>1259691420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Last time I was at Barnes and Noble Booksellers, the Pathfinder core rule book was there in all of its hardbound glory.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Last time I was at Barnes and Noble Booksellers , the Pathfinder core rule book was there in all of its hardbound glory .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last time I was at Barnes and Noble Booksellers, the Pathfinder core rule book was there in all of its hardbound glory.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282046</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30295056</id>
	<title>Re:No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>AK Marc</author>
	<datestamp>1259576220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>I grudgingly have to support what they're doing - stopping people using their trademark, BloodBowl.</i> <br> <br>Trademark exists to protect consumers, not companies.  The idea is that Capitalism only works with an informed consumer, and if someone is confused by branding labels or essentially light-weight fraud, then it impairs the ability of the consumers to be informed, and thus harms Capitalism.<br> <br>But the idea of using Trademark (or even Copyright) for essentially for the protection of profits, rather than improvement of all is against the intentions of the founders.  Laws are supposed to help society, not hurt it to make corporations richer.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I grudgingly have to support what they 're doing - stopping people using their trademark , BloodBowl .
Trademark exists to protect consumers , not companies .
The idea is that Capitalism only works with an informed consumer , and if someone is confused by branding labels or essentially light-weight fraud , then it impairs the ability of the consumers to be informed , and thus harms Capitalism .
But the idea of using Trademark ( or even Copyright ) for essentially for the protection of profits , rather than improvement of all is against the intentions of the founders .
Laws are supposed to help society , not hurt it to make corporations richer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I grudgingly have to support what they're doing - stopping people using their trademark, BloodBowl.
Trademark exists to protect consumers, not companies.
The idea is that Capitalism only works with an informed consumer, and if someone is confused by branding labels or essentially light-weight fraud, then it impairs the ability of the consumers to be informed, and thus harms Capitalism.
But the idea of using Trademark (or even Copyright) for essentially for the protection of profits, rather than improvement of all is against the intentions of the founders.
Laws are supposed to help society, not hurt it to make corporations richer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30285402</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280842</id>
	<title>Re:Talk about Idiots</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259662920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thought I'd add:</p><p>Blizzard of course doesn't go after Fan Art, Fan made movies, and even some of the very questionable stuff that goes on over at <a href="http://www.darknestfantasyerotica.com/" title="darknestfa...rotica.com">darknest</a> [darknestfa...rotica.com] (such as model and skin edits in the live game!) not counting all the nude warcraft art.</p><p>I'm not a little happy about the way blizzard sometimes reacts (bnetd, glider, etc) but they certainly give their customers and fans a lot of freedom. I wish other companies weren't so bloody stupid. Why hurt your customers?!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thought I 'd add : Blizzard of course does n't go after Fan Art , Fan made movies , and even some of the very questionable stuff that goes on over at darknest [ darknestfa...rotica.com ] ( such as model and skin edits in the live game !
) not counting all the nude warcraft art.I 'm not a little happy about the way blizzard sometimes reacts ( bnetd , glider , etc ) but they certainly give their customers and fans a lot of freedom .
I wish other companies were n't so bloody stupid .
Why hurt your customers ?
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thought I'd add:Blizzard of course doesn't go after Fan Art, Fan made movies, and even some of the very questionable stuff that goes on over at darknest [darknestfa...rotica.com] (such as model and skin edits in the live game!
) not counting all the nude warcraft art.I'm not a little happy about the way blizzard sometimes reacts (bnetd, glider, etc) but they certainly give their customers and fans a lot of freedom.
I wish other companies weren't so bloody stupid.
Why hurt your customers?
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281214</id>
	<title>Re:Fair use is a legal right...</title>
	<author>broken\_chaos</author>
	<datestamp>1259666460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This doesn't even seem to be fair use to me. It doesn't really fit the criteria. <em>Maybe</em> "teaching" or "research", but you'd have to kinda stretch it &ndash; and fight it out in court, as the parent mentioned. Fair use is a lot more specific than "anything I think doesn't hurt them", after all &ndash; it, and fair dealing, have quite specific categories that the usage of a copyrighted work must fall into, as well as being fought in court if challenged on the reasoning.</p><p>Yes, it's stupid of them (since it's just going to piss off their customer base), but it hardly seems like an incorrect usage of copyright law. Stupid, yes. Unethical, maybe. Incorrect, not likely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This does n't even seem to be fair use to me .
It does n't really fit the criteria .
Maybe " teaching " or " research " , but you 'd have to kinda stretch it    and fight it out in court , as the parent mentioned .
Fair use is a lot more specific than " anything I think does n't hurt them " , after all    it , and fair dealing , have quite specific categories that the usage of a copyrighted work must fall into , as well as being fought in court if challenged on the reasoning.Yes , it 's stupid of them ( since it 's just going to piss off their customer base ) , but it hardly seems like an incorrect usage of copyright law .
Stupid , yes .
Unethical , maybe .
Incorrect , not likely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This doesn't even seem to be fair use to me.
It doesn't really fit the criteria.
Maybe "teaching" or "research", but you'd have to kinda stretch it – and fight it out in court, as the parent mentioned.
Fair use is a lot more specific than "anything I think doesn't hurt them", after all – it, and fair dealing, have quite specific categories that the usage of a copyrighted work must fall into, as well as being fought in court if challenged on the reasoning.Yes, it's stupid of them (since it's just going to piss off their customer base), but it hardly seems like an incorrect usage of copyright law.
Stupid, yes.
Unethical, maybe.
Incorrect, not likely.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280778</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281828</id>
	<title>Re:No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259673720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't forget that they also invented Space Marines fighting long-headed Aliens in corridors with flame throwers.<br> <br>
Game Workshop's lawyers mostly come at night...<i>mostly</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget that they also invented Space Marines fighting long-headed Aliens in corridors with flame throwers .
Game Workshop 's lawyers mostly come at night...mostly</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget that they also invented Space Marines fighting long-headed Aliens in corridors with flame throwers.
Game Workshop's lawyers mostly come at night...mostly</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281588</id>
	<title>Re:Open Source Gaming</title>
	<author>slim</author>
	<datestamp>1259671320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm reliably informed by the colleague sitting next to me, that there are "loads" of free wargame and RPG rules out there.</p><p>I Googled, and he's right. Sample hit: <a href="http://www.miniaturewargaming.com/index.php/mwg/category/Rules\%20Universal/" title="miniaturewargaming.com">http://www.miniaturewargaming.com/index.php/mwg/category/Rules\%20Universal/</a> [miniaturewargaming.com]</p><p>Do we have the technology for Open Source miniatures to work? It's certainly easy enough to make a lossy reproduction of a suitably designed miniature, by making a mould and melting some lead. 3D printing could become mainstream soonish. It just needs enough people to be interested.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm reliably informed by the colleague sitting next to me , that there are " loads " of free wargame and RPG rules out there.I Googled , and he 's right .
Sample hit : http : //www.miniaturewargaming.com/index.php/mwg/category/Rules \ % 20Universal/ [ miniaturewargaming.com ] Do we have the technology for Open Source miniatures to work ?
It 's certainly easy enough to make a lossy reproduction of a suitably designed miniature , by making a mould and melting some lead .
3D printing could become mainstream soonish .
It just needs enough people to be interested .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm reliably informed by the colleague sitting next to me, that there are "loads" of free wargame and RPG rules out there.I Googled, and he's right.
Sample hit: http://www.miniaturewargaming.com/index.php/mwg/category/Rules\%20Universal/ [miniaturewargaming.com]Do we have the technology for Open Source miniatures to work?
It's certainly easy enough to make a lossy reproduction of a suitably designed miniature, by making a mould and melting some lead.
3D printing could become mainstream soonish.
It just needs enough people to be interested.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30285780</id>
	<title>Re:F'ed over the RPG crowd too</title>
	<author>Vintermann</author>
	<datestamp>1259694000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't play their kind of games much, but I have BIG respect for Fantasy Flight Games for their adoption practices. They buy the games fans still love which no longer fits with the old publisher's business plan. They even seem to make money on it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't play their kind of games much , but I have BIG respect for Fantasy Flight Games for their adoption practices .
They buy the games fans still love which no longer fits with the old publisher 's business plan .
They even seem to make money on it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't play their kind of games much, but I have BIG respect for Fantasy Flight Games for their adoption practices.
They buy the games fans still love which no longer fits with the old publisher's business plan.
They even seem to make money on it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282034</id>
	<title>Re:Open Source Gaming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259675880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Can we say Google Wave?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Can we say Google Wave ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can we say Google Wave?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280904</id>
	<title>Warhammer?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259663520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Never heard of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Never heard of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Never heard of it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30285064</id>
	<title>Re:GW's new line of business</title>
	<author>FluffyWithTeeth</author>
	<datestamp>1259691060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So you're complaining about GW's focus on non-tabletop areas when you... haven't spent any money on their tabletop division in probably about a decade?</p><p>This is not exactly surprising.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So you 're complaining about GW 's focus on non-tabletop areas when you... have n't spent any money on their tabletop division in probably about a decade ? This is not exactly surprising .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you're complaining about GW's focus on non-tabletop areas when you... haven't spent any money on their tabletop division in probably about a decade?This is not exactly surprising.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282146</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281764</id>
	<title>Re:Fair use is a legal right...</title>
	<author>cafard</author>
	<datestamp>1259673060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Think they're over-reacting? Look at Warcraft. That was originally going to be a Warhammer game. Their legal team fell asleep on the job, didn't sign a properly binding agreement and Blizzard decided that they'd just remove the GW branding, give the game a slightly different name and keep all the royalties. To rub salt into the wound, they then released Starcraft which again was more than slightly familiar to GW fans.</i></p><p>They didn't seem to think that kind of things were an issue when they ripped off <i>Aliens</i> to make Space Hulk.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Think they 're over-reacting ?
Look at Warcraft .
That was originally going to be a Warhammer game .
Their legal team fell asleep on the job , did n't sign a properly binding agreement and Blizzard decided that they 'd just remove the GW branding , give the game a slightly different name and keep all the royalties .
To rub salt into the wound , they then released Starcraft which again was more than slightly familiar to GW fans.They did n't seem to think that kind of things were an issue when they ripped off Aliens to make Space Hulk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Think they're over-reacting?
Look at Warcraft.
That was originally going to be a Warhammer game.
Their legal team fell asleep on the job, didn't sign a properly binding agreement and Blizzard decided that they'd just remove the GW branding, give the game a slightly different name and keep all the royalties.
To rub salt into the wound, they then released Starcraft which again was more than slightly familiar to GW fans.They didn't seem to think that kind of things were an issue when they ripped off Aliens to make Space Hulk.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30286258</id>
	<title>This is what happens</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259695680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When Jews run unchecked and wild because there never was a holocaust.</p><p>But if you are willing to keep taking it up the ass and only cry instead of oh say...LEAVE. You had it coming and get what you deserve.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When Jews run unchecked and wild because there never was a holocaust.But if you are willing to keep taking it up the ass and only cry instead of oh say...LEAVE .
You had it coming and get what you deserve .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When Jews run unchecked and wild because there never was a holocaust.But if you are willing to keep taking it up the ass and only cry instead of oh say...LEAVE.
You had it coming and get what you deserve.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281320</id>
	<title>Re:Fair use is a legal right...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259668020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Fair use is a legal right.
<br>
This is not fair use.
<br> <br>
They're scanning and posting Games Workshop's art, judging from the article, it's all the art relating to games like Space Hulk. They've revived Space Hulk in the past, it's not unthinkable they'll revive it again. Regardless, they're an active company, you don't have the automatic right to almost completely reproduce their work.
<br> <br>
They rely on stuff like codexes and boxed games for a large portion of their income. Given the traditional fantasy nature of their products, it's incredibly important they protect their IPs and trademarks.
<br> <br>
Think they're over-reacting? Look at Warcraft. That was originally going to be a Warhammer game. Their legal team fell asleep on the job, didn't sign a properly binding agreement and Blizzard decided that they'd just remove the GW branding, give the game a slightly different name and keep all the royalties. To rub salt into the wound, they then released Starcraft which again was more than slightly familiar to GW fans.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Fair use is a legal right .
This is not fair use .
They 're scanning and posting Games Workshop 's art , judging from the article , it 's all the art relating to games like Space Hulk .
They 've revived Space Hulk in the past , it 's not unthinkable they 'll revive it again .
Regardless , they 're an active company , you do n't have the automatic right to almost completely reproduce their work .
They rely on stuff like codexes and boxed games for a large portion of their income .
Given the traditional fantasy nature of their products , it 's incredibly important they protect their IPs and trademarks .
Think they 're over-reacting ?
Look at Warcraft .
That was originally going to be a Warhammer game .
Their legal team fell asleep on the job , did n't sign a properly binding agreement and Blizzard decided that they 'd just remove the GW branding , give the game a slightly different name and keep all the royalties .
To rub salt into the wound , they then released Starcraft which again was more than slightly familiar to GW fans .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fair use is a legal right.
This is not fair use.
They're scanning and posting Games Workshop's art, judging from the article, it's all the art relating to games like Space Hulk.
They've revived Space Hulk in the past, it's not unthinkable they'll revive it again.
Regardless, they're an active company, you don't have the automatic right to almost completely reproduce their work.
They rely on stuff like codexes and boxed games for a large portion of their income.
Given the traditional fantasy nature of their products, it's incredibly important they protect their IPs and trademarks.
Think they're over-reacting?
Look at Warcraft.
That was originally going to be a Warhammer game.
Their legal team fell asleep on the job, didn't sign a properly binding agreement and Blizzard decided that they'd just remove the GW branding, give the game a slightly different name and keep all the royalties.
To rub salt into the wound, they then released Starcraft which again was more than slightly familiar to GW fans.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280778</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30298150</id>
	<title>Re:Wouldn't want that now would we?</title>
	<author>bukowski01</author>
	<datestamp>1259600760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Pricey dice?!  3 bucks for dice and that's 'pricey'</htmltext>
<tokenext>Pricey dice ? !
3 bucks for dice and that 's 'pricey'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pricey dice?!
3 bucks for dice and that's 'pricey'</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30298082</id>
	<title>Re:No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>bukowski01</author>
	<datestamp>1259600460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You are wrong.  I owned a game shop for 4 years and none of this happened.  They will push crappy games like nobody's business, but you don't 'have' to buy, or stock, any one item.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are wrong .
I owned a game shop for 4 years and none of this happened .
They will push crappy games like nobody 's business , but you do n't 'have ' to buy , or stock , any one item .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are wrong.
I owned a game shop for 4 years and none of this happened.
They will push crappy games like nobody's business, but you don't 'have' to buy, or stock, any one item.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282420</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30285402</id>
	<title>Re:No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259692500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I couldn't agree more. I'm into the current BloodBowl computer game they released in June for the PC, and over the past couple of months have seen them issue takedown notices to various bloodbowl fan websites. While obviously this isn't a great thing, I grudgingly have to support what they're doing - stopping people using their trademark, BloodBowl. As the takedown notice says, if they have a history of ignoring their trademark's infringement, than when it really \_does\_ matter, they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

Here's the takedown for talkbloodbowl.com (and fumbbl just had a similar one):



"Thank you for your email concerning the website www.talkbloodbowl.com.

We understand that you are unhappy about the decision by the people running www.talkbloodbowl.com to shut their site down. The Blood Bowl community is important to Games Workshop and we are also disappointed that they have felt it necessary to take such a step. Unfortunately, that decision is entirely one for them and we can have no influence over what action they choose to take.

Unlike many companies, Games Workshop usually only stops people from using our intellectual property if we must do so in order to protect it (provided that use is by and for hobbyists). For example, the law requires us to protect our trademarks in certain ways &ndash; and if we do not &ndash; we might lose them. As you can imagine, we do not want to lose our trademarks as we would no longer be able to create the great miniatures and table top hobby wargames that we pride ourselves on.

&lsquo;Blood Bowl&rsquo; is a trademark that belongs to Games Workshop. Therefore the use of it by third parties, without licence, is unlawful and an infringement of Games Workshop&rsquo;s rights.

Guidance has been available for our fans for many years in our Intellectual Property Policy that can be found on the legal pages of our website <a href="http://legal.games-workshop.com/" title="games-workshop.com" rel="nofollow">http://legal.games-workshop.com/</a> [games-workshop.com] This sets out how our hobbyists can use our intellectual property in such a way that Games Workshop is not likely to object. Within the policy there are some simple rules, such as:

1) Do not mention any Games Workshop Trademarks, such as &ldquo;Blood Bowl&rdquo; or &ldquo;Warhammer&rdquo; in your URL or league name; and
2) Do not screenscrape any content from official websites.

There are also a number of more general guidelines, setting out the spirit of the policy. If a fan follows the policy in spirit and letter, then it is highly unlikely that Games Workshop will take any action to prevent their use of Games Workshop&rsquo;s IP.

Games Workshop has not specifically targeted any particular website but instead has taken a consistent approach to all sites that we are aware of that are using our &lsquo;Blood Bowl&rsquo; trademark without our permission.

We have written to the owners or administrators of these sites detailing our concerns. In our letters, we gave the parties infringing our rights various options as to how they could address our concerns. At no time did Games Workshop demand that any website close down.

We trust that this clarifies the situation."</htmltext>
<tokenext>I could n't agree more .
I 'm into the current BloodBowl computer game they released in June for the PC , and over the past couple of months have seen them issue takedown notices to various bloodbowl fan websites .
While obviously this is n't a great thing , I grudgingly have to support what they 're doing - stopping people using their trademark , BloodBowl .
As the takedown notice says , if they have a history of ignoring their trademark 's infringement , than when it really \ _does \ _ matter , they do n't have a legal leg to stand on .
Here 's the takedown for talkbloodbowl.com ( and fumbbl just had a similar one ) : " Thank you for your email concerning the website www.talkbloodbowl.com .
We understand that you are unhappy about the decision by the people running www.talkbloodbowl.com to shut their site down .
The Blood Bowl community is important to Games Workshop and we are also disappointed that they have felt it necessary to take such a step .
Unfortunately , that decision is entirely one for them and we can have no influence over what action they choose to take .
Unlike many companies , Games Workshop usually only stops people from using our intellectual property if we must do so in order to protect it ( provided that use is by and for hobbyists ) .
For example , the law requires us to protect our trademarks in certain ways    and if we do not    we might lose them .
As you can imagine , we do not want to lose our trademarks as we would no longer be able to create the great miniatures and table top hobby wargames that we pride ourselves on .
   Blood Bowl    is a trademark that belongs to Games Workshop .
Therefore the use of it by third parties , without licence , is unlawful and an infringement of Games Workshop    s rights .
Guidance has been available for our fans for many years in our Intellectual Property Policy that can be found on the legal pages of our website http : //legal.games-workshop.com/ [ games-workshop.com ] This sets out how our hobbyists can use our intellectual property in such a way that Games Workshop is not likely to object .
Within the policy there are some simple rules , such as : 1 ) Do not mention any Games Workshop Trademarks , such as    Blood Bowl    or    Warhammer    in your URL or league name ; and 2 ) Do not screenscrape any content from official websites .
There are also a number of more general guidelines , setting out the spirit of the policy .
If a fan follows the policy in spirit and letter , then it is highly unlikely that Games Workshop will take any action to prevent their use of Games Workshop    s IP .
Games Workshop has not specifically targeted any particular website but instead has taken a consistent approach to all sites that we are aware of that are using our    Blood Bowl    trademark without our permission .
We have written to the owners or administrators of these sites detailing our concerns .
In our letters , we gave the parties infringing our rights various options as to how they could address our concerns .
At no time did Games Workshop demand that any website close down .
We trust that this clarifies the situation .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I couldn't agree more.
I'm into the current BloodBowl computer game they released in June for the PC, and over the past couple of months have seen them issue takedown notices to various bloodbowl fan websites.
While obviously this isn't a great thing, I grudgingly have to support what they're doing - stopping people using their trademark, BloodBowl.
As the takedown notice says, if they have a history of ignoring their trademark's infringement, than when it really \_does\_ matter, they don't have a legal leg to stand on.
Here's the takedown for talkbloodbowl.com (and fumbbl just had a similar one):



"Thank you for your email concerning the website www.talkbloodbowl.com.
We understand that you are unhappy about the decision by the people running www.talkbloodbowl.com to shut their site down.
The Blood Bowl community is important to Games Workshop and we are also disappointed that they have felt it necessary to take such a step.
Unfortunately, that decision is entirely one for them and we can have no influence over what action they choose to take.
Unlike many companies, Games Workshop usually only stops people from using our intellectual property if we must do so in order to protect it (provided that use is by and for hobbyists).
For example, the law requires us to protect our trademarks in certain ways – and if we do not – we might lose them.
As you can imagine, we do not want to lose our trademarks as we would no longer be able to create the great miniatures and table top hobby wargames that we pride ourselves on.
‘Blood Bowl’ is a trademark that belongs to Games Workshop.
Therefore the use of it by third parties, without licence, is unlawful and an infringement of Games Workshop’s rights.
Guidance has been available for our fans for many years in our Intellectual Property Policy that can be found on the legal pages of our website http://legal.games-workshop.com/ [games-workshop.com] This sets out how our hobbyists can use our intellectual property in such a way that Games Workshop is not likely to object.
Within the policy there are some simple rules, such as:

1) Do not mention any Games Workshop Trademarks, such as “Blood Bowl” or “Warhammer” in your URL or league name; and
2) Do not screenscrape any content from official websites.
There are also a number of more general guidelines, setting out the spirit of the policy.
If a fan follows the policy in spirit and letter, then it is highly unlikely that Games Workshop will take any action to prevent their use of Games Workshop’s IP.
Games Workshop has not specifically targeted any particular website but instead has taken a consistent approach to all sites that we are aware of that are using our ‘Blood Bowl’ trademark without our permission.
We have written to the owners or administrators of these sites detailing our concerns.
In our letters, we gave the parties infringing our rights various options as to how they could address our concerns.
At no time did Games Workshop demand that any website close down.
We trust that this clarifies the situation.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280998</id>
	<title>How The Legal Dept Works.</title>
	<author>Ukab the Great</author>
	<datestamp>1259664480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. Roll 12-sided dice and get above 20, release Warhammer under Creative Commons license.<br>2. Roll 12-sided dice and get below 20, go after fan sites.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Roll 12-sided dice and get above 20 , release Warhammer under Creative Commons license.2 .
Roll 12-sided dice and get below 20 , go after fan sites .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Roll 12-sided dice and get above 20, release Warhammer under Creative Commons license.2.
Roll 12-sided dice and get below 20, go after fan sites.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280850</id>
	<title>Wouldn't want that now would we?</title>
	<author>Datamonstar</author>
	<datestamp>1259663040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wouldn't want to have people actually using our products now would we? Just keep buying the ones we tell you to buy, or else we'll punish you for not wanting to change to our mindset. It's why I stopped playing D20 games. After 4.0 came out with NO open content, I turned and never looked back. I've always stopped by their stores and thought HOW in heavens they keep afloat. A dedicated shop front for a hobiest game cant be all that efficient. Besides, there's just no way I'd drop that much cash on figurines just to play a game, but then again it's not my kind of hobby. I do play P&amp;P PRGs, after all, and that require quite a bit of pricey dice and books, so who am I to talk? Seeing this now, I'll be pretty glad to see them going out of business soon.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Would n't want to have people actually using our products now would we ?
Just keep buying the ones we tell you to buy , or else we 'll punish you for not wanting to change to our mindset .
It 's why I stopped playing D20 games .
After 4.0 came out with NO open content , I turned and never looked back .
I 've always stopped by their stores and thought HOW in heavens they keep afloat .
A dedicated shop front for a hobiest game cant be all that efficient .
Besides , there 's just no way I 'd drop that much cash on figurines just to play a game , but then again it 's not my kind of hobby .
I do play P&amp;P PRGs , after all , and that require quite a bit of pricey dice and books , so who am I to talk ?
Seeing this now , I 'll be pretty glad to see them going out of business soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wouldn't want to have people actually using our products now would we?
Just keep buying the ones we tell you to buy, or else we'll punish you for not wanting to change to our mindset.
It's why I stopped playing D20 games.
After 4.0 came out with NO open content, I turned and never looked back.
I've always stopped by their stores and thought HOW in heavens they keep afloat.
A dedicated shop front for a hobiest game cant be all that efficient.
Besides, there's just no way I'd drop that much cash on figurines just to play a game, but then again it's not my kind of hobby.
I do play P&amp;P PRGs, after all, and that require quite a bit of pricey dice and books, so who am I to talk?
Seeing this now, I'll be pretty glad to see them going out of business soon.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281000</id>
	<title>Open Source Gaming</title>
	<author>Dartz-IRL</author>
	<datestamp>1259664480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How long before somebody finally gets frustrated and motivated enough a GNU project for wargames? Call it OpenWarfare, and start with the basic Tenant of the Free Earth Federation,-v- The Corporate Aquilan Empire. Then build from there. All the IP is open, the ruleset is open and independent of any miniatures line. If anybody wants to add to the IP pool,. they can... provided they allow others to make changes. If anybody wants to sell compatible miniatures, they can. Sourcebooks.... Even build their own proprietary IP universe on top of the ruleset if they want.</p><p>How long?</p><p>Probably never, but it'd be a cool idea.</p><p>Damn... I might have to give it a go over Xmas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How long before somebody finally gets frustrated and motivated enough a GNU project for wargames ?
Call it OpenWarfare , and start with the basic Tenant of the Free Earth Federation,-v- The Corporate Aquilan Empire .
Then build from there .
All the IP is open , the ruleset is open and independent of any miniatures line .
If anybody wants to add to the IP pool, .
they can... provided they allow others to make changes .
If anybody wants to sell compatible miniatures , they can .
Sourcebooks.... Even build their own proprietary IP universe on top of the ruleset if they want.How long ? Probably never , but it 'd be a cool idea.Damn... I might have to give it a go over Xmas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How long before somebody finally gets frustrated and motivated enough a GNU project for wargames?
Call it OpenWarfare, and start with the basic Tenant of the Free Earth Federation,-v- The Corporate Aquilan Empire.
Then build from there.
All the IP is open, the ruleset is open and independent of any miniatures line.
If anybody wants to add to the IP pool,.
they can... provided they allow others to make changes.
If anybody wants to sell compatible miniatures, they can.
Sourcebooks.... Even build their own proprietary IP universe on top of the ruleset if they want.How long?Probably never, but it'd be a cool idea.Damn... I might have to give it a go over Xmas.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280922</id>
	<title>The downward spiral.</title>
	<author>netpixie</author>
	<datestamp>1259663760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This isn't too much of a surprise, GW are notorious for not really understanding all this crazy new "internet" crap. Indeed, they've only recently put up a website that isn't total rubbish (although it is close).</p><p>"What, people are talking about our products, unshackled by our munificent control? Sue them to buggery!"</p><p>Yet another staggering own goal that further tarnishes a once great company. Bankruptcy cannot be far away unless they hire at least one person who actually uses the internet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't too much of a surprise , GW are notorious for not really understanding all this crazy new " internet " crap .
Indeed , they 've only recently put up a website that is n't total rubbish ( although it is close ) .
" What , people are talking about our products , unshackled by our munificent control ?
Sue them to buggery !
" Yet another staggering own goal that further tarnishes a once great company .
Bankruptcy can not be far away unless they hire at least one person who actually uses the internet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't too much of a surprise, GW are notorious for not really understanding all this crazy new "internet" crap.
Indeed, they've only recently put up a website that isn't total rubbish (although it is close).
"What, people are talking about our products, unshackled by our munificent control?
Sue them to buggery!
"Yet another staggering own goal that further tarnishes a once great company.
Bankruptcy cannot be far away unless they hire at least one person who actually uses the internet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30284136</id>
	<title>Re:Talk about Idiots</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259687040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've heard this particular claim before, but without a shred of proof.  This sounds like an internet rumor that everyone just assumes is truth.  I think it's pretty clear that Warcraft was inspired by Warhammer...but I've never found anything other than forum posts to validate the claim that "Warcraft: Orcs and Humans" was ever intended to be a Warhammer game until GW pulled out.  In fact, I've heard versions where Blizzard approached GW about the making the game, which just simply isn't how the industry works.</p><p>Starcraft, however, has much less in common with W:40K.  Space Marines are a common trope...just ask Robert Heinlein, author of "Starship Troopers".  (That is, if he hadn't died of old age, since that book saw print in 1959).  Humans soldiers in heavy armor fighting space bugs.  HMMM.  If anything, Starcraft rips off Heinlein much more than Warhammer 40K.  There is no magic, no Imperium and lots of other details that don't match.  There are similarities...but there are similarities with a lot of other IP, not just GW's.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've heard this particular claim before , but without a shred of proof .
This sounds like an internet rumor that everyone just assumes is truth .
I think it 's pretty clear that Warcraft was inspired by Warhammer...but I 've never found anything other than forum posts to validate the claim that " Warcraft : Orcs and Humans " was ever intended to be a Warhammer game until GW pulled out .
In fact , I 've heard versions where Blizzard approached GW about the making the game , which just simply is n't how the industry works.Starcraft , however , has much less in common with W : 40K .
Space Marines are a common trope...just ask Robert Heinlein , author of " Starship Troopers " .
( That is , if he had n't died of old age , since that book saw print in 1959 ) .
Humans soldiers in heavy armor fighting space bugs .
HMMM. If anything , Starcraft rips off Heinlein much more than Warhammer 40K .
There is no magic , no Imperium and lots of other details that do n't match .
There are similarities...but there are similarities with a lot of other IP , not just GW 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've heard this particular claim before, but without a shred of proof.
This sounds like an internet rumor that everyone just assumes is truth.
I think it's pretty clear that Warcraft was inspired by Warhammer...but I've never found anything other than forum posts to validate the claim that "Warcraft: Orcs and Humans" was ever intended to be a Warhammer game until GW pulled out.
In fact, I've heard versions where Blizzard approached GW about the making the game, which just simply isn't how the industry works.Starcraft, however, has much less in common with W:40K.
Space Marines are a common trope...just ask Robert Heinlein, author of "Starship Troopers".
(That is, if he hadn't died of old age, since that book saw print in 1959).
Humans soldiers in heavy armor fighting space bugs.
HMMM.  If anything, Starcraft rips off Heinlein much more than Warhammer 40K.
There is no magic, no Imperium and lots of other details that don't match.
There are similarities...but there are similarities with a lot of other IP, not just GW's.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30283740</id>
	<title>Re:Talk about Idiots</title>
	<author>cheesybagel</author>
	<datestamp>1259685300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
<i>I've always hope Games Workshop was kicking themselves hard over their stupidity for losing blizzard to make their own even more successful franchise when games such as Warhammer Online are a total flop.</i>
</p><p>
I guess you never played the Warhammer 40K : Dawn of War series of games. Relic makes a mean RTS game. They have released several games and expansions while Blizzard has released nothing new in their Starcraft franchise. Starcraft II development is starting to look like Duke Nukem Forever. They have the World of Warcraft cow to milk, but if they don't get their asses into gear, they will get the same destiny as the people who did Everquest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've always hope Games Workshop was kicking themselves hard over their stupidity for losing blizzard to make their own even more successful franchise when games such as Warhammer Online are a total flop .
I guess you never played the Warhammer 40K : Dawn of War series of games .
Relic makes a mean RTS game .
They have released several games and expansions while Blizzard has released nothing new in their Starcraft franchise .
Starcraft II development is starting to look like Duke Nukem Forever .
They have the World of Warcraft cow to milk , but if they do n't get their asses into gear , they will get the same destiny as the people who did Everquest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I've always hope Games Workshop was kicking themselves hard over their stupidity for losing blizzard to make their own even more successful franchise when games such as Warhammer Online are a total flop.
I guess you never played the Warhammer 40K : Dawn of War series of games.
Relic makes a mean RTS game.
They have released several games and expansions while Blizzard has released nothing new in their Starcraft franchise.
Starcraft II development is starting to look like Duke Nukem Forever.
They have the World of Warcraft cow to milk, but if they don't get their asses into gear, they will get the same destiny as the people who did Everquest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30284994</id>
	<title>Re:Surely this is the topic where...</title>
	<author>nhytefall</author>
	<datestamp>1259690700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...and -2 to CHA.  Just sayin'</htmltext>
<tokenext>...and -2 to CHA .
Just sayin'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and -2 to CHA.
Just sayin'</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281088</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30294794</id>
	<title>Re:No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259572440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Games Workshop have every right to go after this kind of flagrant IP violation. After all, the company spent countless hours and huge amounts of money inventing orcs, elves, vampires, zombies and dwarves. They should be able to benefit from their creative efforts without some "fan" treating it as if it were in the public domain!</p></div><p>I think they're protecting the consumer. Otherwise, potential players would suffer the same fate as they have: Doomed to look and smell unkempt, unable to approach a woman without rolling 1d20 to cast 'blindness' and 'stupefy' on their intended target.</p><p>Though, doing this erodes the market for the Frito-Lay and the makers of Mountain Dew, but not as much in light of the number of WoW players.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Games Workshop have every right to go after this kind of flagrant IP violation .
After all , the company spent countless hours and huge amounts of money inventing orcs , elves , vampires , zombies and dwarves .
They should be able to benefit from their creative efforts without some " fan " treating it as if it were in the public domain ! I think they 're protecting the consumer .
Otherwise , potential players would suffer the same fate as they have : Doomed to look and smell unkempt , unable to approach a woman without rolling 1d20 to cast 'blindness ' and 'stupefy ' on their intended target.Though , doing this erodes the market for the Frito-Lay and the makers of Mountain Dew , but not as much in light of the number of WoW players .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Games Workshop have every right to go after this kind of flagrant IP violation.
After all, the company spent countless hours and huge amounts of money inventing orcs, elves, vampires, zombies and dwarves.
They should be able to benefit from their creative efforts without some "fan" treating it as if it were in the public domain!I think they're protecting the consumer.
Otherwise, potential players would suffer the same fate as they have: Doomed to look and smell unkempt, unable to approach a woman without rolling 1d20 to cast 'blindness' and 'stupefy' on their intended target.Though, doing this erodes the market for the Frito-Lay and the makers of Mountain Dew, but not as much in light of the number of WoW players.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30285062</id>
	<title>Re:No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259691060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You're joking, right? I can see, MAYBE, on the distributing of scans to keep games in service, but even that pushes the limit when you're talking about games with write-on-and-throw-away tracking sheets.</p><p>Games Jerkshop have no love from me on the storefront area either. You know what they do to regular game shops, right? If you want to carry their "product" and have gamedays/tournaments, they demand 60\% of your shelf space, have a list a mile long of "competing products" that you have to agree never to stock, insist you carry a certain dollar-amount of product on shelf at all times and never hold a sale.</p><p>Then, when YOU the game store have built up the community, they plop down an "Official Games Workshop" store half a mile down the road, undercut you by selling everything at a 10\% discount (remember, YOU are contractually obligated not even to hold a sale), and deliberately do their best to put you under so that nobody in the area is selling anything but GW games. Hell, at one point they actually tried to put Reaper Miniatures and D&amp;D Miniatures on their "products you will not sell" list.</p><p>I for one think it would be best for the world if Games Jerkshop were to fold tomorrow and their IP scatter to the four winds.</p></div><p>GW's hand is forced by British copyright laws in this matter.</p><p>If they let that site continue using their IP it would become public domain.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're joking , right ?
I can see , MAYBE , on the distributing of scans to keep games in service , but even that pushes the limit when you 're talking about games with write-on-and-throw-away tracking sheets.Games Jerkshop have no love from me on the storefront area either .
You know what they do to regular game shops , right ?
If you want to carry their " product " and have gamedays/tournaments , they demand 60 \ % of your shelf space , have a list a mile long of " competing products " that you have to agree never to stock , insist you carry a certain dollar-amount of product on shelf at all times and never hold a sale.Then , when YOU the game store have built up the community , they plop down an " Official Games Workshop " store half a mile down the road , undercut you by selling everything at a 10 \ % discount ( remember , YOU are contractually obligated not even to hold a sale ) , and deliberately do their best to put you under so that nobody in the area is selling anything but GW games .
Hell , at one point they actually tried to put Reaper Miniatures and D&amp;D Miniatures on their " products you will not sell " list.I for one think it would be best for the world if Games Jerkshop were to fold tomorrow and their IP scatter to the four winds.GW 's hand is forced by British copyright laws in this matter.If they let that site continue using their IP it would become public domain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're joking, right?
I can see, MAYBE, on the distributing of scans to keep games in service, but even that pushes the limit when you're talking about games with write-on-and-throw-away tracking sheets.Games Jerkshop have no love from me on the storefront area either.
You know what they do to regular game shops, right?
If you want to carry their "product" and have gamedays/tournaments, they demand 60\% of your shelf space, have a list a mile long of "competing products" that you have to agree never to stock, insist you carry a certain dollar-amount of product on shelf at all times and never hold a sale.Then, when YOU the game store have built up the community, they plop down an "Official Games Workshop" store half a mile down the road, undercut you by selling everything at a 10\% discount (remember, YOU are contractually obligated not even to hold a sale), and deliberately do their best to put you under so that nobody in the area is selling anything but GW games.
Hell, at one point they actually tried to put Reaper Miniatures and D&amp;D Miniatures on their "products you will not sell" list.I for one think it would be best for the world if Games Jerkshop were to fold tomorrow and their IP scatter to the four winds.GW's hand is forced by British copyright laws in this matter.If they let that site continue using their IP it would become public domain.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282420</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282046</id>
	<title>Re:Wouldn't want that now would we?</title>
	<author>800DeadCCs</author>
	<datestamp>1259675940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When 4.0 came out, my first thought was "This is a P&amp;P version of a computer RPG"... Specifically, it reminded me of the Baldurs Gate games for PS2.<br>Then when they pulled all their PDFs, I just said "fuck 'em"...  Actually, I'd said "fuck 'em" a while earlier, this time was "fuck 'em and forget 'em".<br>(Although the writing was on the wall with that one, given how they wanted to do so much with their online system).<br>I'd like to try out Pathfinder (supposedly an indie 3.5), but can't FIND it in deadtree.</p><p>As for the GW shops...<br>I always get this weird, smiling cultist feeling whenever I've gone into one.<br>Also wondered how they stay running, and whether the employees apparent enthusiasm might be exploited a bit.<br>"Hey bob, wanna take a box of orcs home and paint 'em for the shop"?<br>Maybe every mini purchased helps subsidize the stores.</p><p>I've thought about getting back in to 40K, stuff like this story cools me back down again.<br>I'll keep my Warhammers with 2 PPCs and a SRM6.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When 4.0 came out , my first thought was " This is a P&amp;P version of a computer RPG " ... Specifically , it reminded me of the Baldurs Gate games for PS2.Then when they pulled all their PDFs , I just said " fuck 'em " ... Actually , I 'd said " fuck 'em " a while earlier , this time was " fuck 'em and forget 'em " .
( Although the writing was on the wall with that one , given how they wanted to do so much with their online system ) .I 'd like to try out Pathfinder ( supposedly an indie 3.5 ) , but ca n't FIND it in deadtree.As for the GW shops...I always get this weird , smiling cultist feeling whenever I 've gone into one.Also wondered how they stay running , and whether the employees apparent enthusiasm might be exploited a bit .
" Hey bob , wan na take a box of orcs home and paint 'em for the shop " ? Maybe every mini purchased helps subsidize the stores.I 've thought about getting back in to 40K , stuff like this story cools me back down again.I 'll keep my Warhammers with 2 PPCs and a SRM6 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When 4.0 came out, my first thought was "This is a P&amp;P version of a computer RPG"... Specifically, it reminded me of the Baldurs Gate games for PS2.Then when they pulled all their PDFs, I just said "fuck 'em"...  Actually, I'd said "fuck 'em" a while earlier, this time was "fuck 'em and forget 'em".
(Although the writing was on the wall with that one, given how they wanted to do so much with their online system).I'd like to try out Pathfinder (supposedly an indie 3.5), but can't FIND it in deadtree.As for the GW shops...I always get this weird, smiling cultist feeling whenever I've gone into one.Also wondered how they stay running, and whether the employees apparent enthusiasm might be exploited a bit.
"Hey bob, wanna take a box of orcs home and paint 'em for the shop"?Maybe every mini purchased helps subsidize the stores.I've thought about getting back in to 40K, stuff like this story cools me back down again.I'll keep my Warhammers with 2 PPCs and a SRM6.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280850</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30286098</id>
	<title>Re:Lesson of TSR</title>
	<author>Vintermann</author>
	<datestamp>1259695140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What fan-suing did TSR engage in? Yes, they were atrociously run, so I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, but I can't remember anything like this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What fan-suing did TSR engage in ?
Yes , they were atrociously run , so I would n't dismiss it out of hand , but I ca n't remember anything like this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What fan-suing did TSR engage in?
Yes, they were atrociously run, so I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, but I can't remember anything like this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281994</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281364</id>
	<title>Re:Talk about Idiots</title>
	<author>abigsmurf</author>
	<datestamp>1259668560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Surely your example proves the need for them to be more aggressive legally rather than more laid back? Bad contract negotiation and being to relaxed and trusting ultimately cost them.
<br> <br>
Besides which, WAR, although not huge, is profitable and they're making massive amounts off of the Dawn of War franchise. They've a massive amount of IP to turn into games. Who wouldn't want to see a modern version of Space Hulk with online co-op?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Surely your example proves the need for them to be more aggressive legally rather than more laid back ?
Bad contract negotiation and being to relaxed and trusting ultimately cost them .
Besides which , WAR , although not huge , is profitable and they 're making massive amounts off of the Dawn of War franchise .
They 've a massive amount of IP to turn into games .
Who would n't want to see a modern version of Space Hulk with online co-op ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surely your example proves the need for them to be more aggressive legally rather than more laid back?
Bad contract negotiation and being to relaxed and trusting ultimately cost them.
Besides which, WAR, although not huge, is profitable and they're making massive amounts off of the Dawn of War franchise.
They've a massive amount of IP to turn into games.
Who wouldn't want to see a modern version of Space Hulk with online co-op?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30283420</id>
	<title>Re:Fair use is a legal right...</title>
	<author>JosKarith</author>
	<datestamp>1259683680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>They recently (as in about 3 months ago) revived Space Hulk with a new edition...</htmltext>
<tokenext>They recently ( as in about 3 months ago ) revived Space Hulk with a new edition.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They recently (as in about 3 months ago) revived Space Hulk with a new edition...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281276</id>
	<title>Re:No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>Osinoche</author>
	<datestamp>1259667360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Dearest sir.
Your use of the terms Orcs, Elves, Vampires, Zombies, and Dwarves is a violation of our IP rights. Please surrender your username immediately for dismissal of a possible law suit.
Yours truly Garmes Wokshop</htmltext>
<tokenext>Dearest sir .
Your use of the terms Orcs , Elves , Vampires , Zombies , and Dwarves is a violation of our IP rights .
Please surrender your username immediately for dismissal of a possible law suit .
Yours truly Garmes Wokshop</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dearest sir.
Your use of the terms Orcs, Elves, Vampires, Zombies, and Dwarves is a violation of our IP rights.
Please surrender your username immediately for dismissal of a possible law suit.
Yours truly Garmes Wokshop</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30287568</id>
	<title>When in doubt, throw the lawyers at them.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259700060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Working for a "brick and mortar" retailer who carries GW, I can blame this 100\% on their legal team.<br>Imagine my surprise getting a phone call informing us we were stealing their IP.<br>They claimed to own pictures on our website detailing new releases, pictures I took of product with our camera when it came in and was available for sale.<br>This is your standard picture of a box/blister name of the item and the retail price.<br>We don't sell online, we do this so our customers can see the new releases, rather than waste a trip/call to the store to see if it has come in yet.<br>Instead we get told we have to take down any mention of GW IP from our website.<br>So I did.<br>Every picture was replaced with a graphic that said Unnamed English Miniature Company does not want you to know about their new product for sale.<br>10 minutes later we get another phone call asking that the site be returned to its former look so the lawyer could look it over, and make sure it was ok.<br>The silence after was impressive.<br>Protip for owners of IP, you might want someone with a brain to look at your "legal teams" findings before trying to bully the people who make you money.  Doing a google search for names you own is not enough to show infringement, and to lump retailers following your policies and the law into a pile of "thieves" makes them cranky.<br>If we can't advertise your product one has to assume your trying to kill your own business.<br>Just because your lawyer said so, doesn't make it true.<br>Pissing off your customers is not the smartest way to continue to make money in an industry driven by loyalty, and stomping out other creative ideas rather than trying to embrace them is stupid.<br>Or do you just think there are no other options?<br>You might want to look at those young whippersnapper upstart miniature games that don't cost $500+ to field an army for and see their success.<br>Alot of the people playing those games got tired of your game and the "lets switch this and that and then make them buy something new" tactics.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Working for a " brick and mortar " retailer who carries GW , I can blame this 100 \ % on their legal team.Imagine my surprise getting a phone call informing us we were stealing their IP.They claimed to own pictures on our website detailing new releases , pictures I took of product with our camera when it came in and was available for sale.This is your standard picture of a box/blister name of the item and the retail price.We do n't sell online , we do this so our customers can see the new releases , rather than waste a trip/call to the store to see if it has come in yet.Instead we get told we have to take down any mention of GW IP from our website.So I did.Every picture was replaced with a graphic that said Unnamed English Miniature Company does not want you to know about their new product for sale.10 minutes later we get another phone call asking that the site be returned to its former look so the lawyer could look it over , and make sure it was ok.The silence after was impressive.Protip for owners of IP , you might want someone with a brain to look at your " legal teams " findings before trying to bully the people who make you money .
Doing a google search for names you own is not enough to show infringement , and to lump retailers following your policies and the law into a pile of " thieves " makes them cranky.If we ca n't advertise your product one has to assume your trying to kill your own business.Just because your lawyer said so , does n't make it true.Pissing off your customers is not the smartest way to continue to make money in an industry driven by loyalty , and stomping out other creative ideas rather than trying to embrace them is stupid.Or do you just think there are no other options ? You might want to look at those young whippersnapper upstart miniature games that do n't cost $ 500 + to field an army for and see their success.Alot of the people playing those games got tired of your game and the " lets switch this and that and then make them buy something new " tactics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Working for a "brick and mortar" retailer who carries GW, I can blame this 100\% on their legal team.Imagine my surprise getting a phone call informing us we were stealing their IP.They claimed to own pictures on our website detailing new releases, pictures I took of product with our camera when it came in and was available for sale.This is your standard picture of a box/blister name of the item and the retail price.We don't sell online, we do this so our customers can see the new releases, rather than waste a trip/call to the store to see if it has come in yet.Instead we get told we have to take down any mention of GW IP from our website.So I did.Every picture was replaced with a graphic that said Unnamed English Miniature Company does not want you to know about their new product for sale.10 minutes later we get another phone call asking that the site be returned to its former look so the lawyer could look it over, and make sure it was ok.The silence after was impressive.Protip for owners of IP, you might want someone with a brain to look at your "legal teams" findings before trying to bully the people who make you money.
Doing a google search for names you own is not enough to show infringement, and to lump retailers following your policies and the law into a pile of "thieves" makes them cranky.If we can't advertise your product one has to assume your trying to kill your own business.Just because your lawyer said so, doesn't make it true.Pissing off your customers is not the smartest way to continue to make money in an industry driven by loyalty, and stomping out other creative ideas rather than trying to embrace them is stupid.Or do you just think there are no other options?You might want to look at those young whippersnapper upstart miniature games that don't cost $500+ to field an army for and see their success.Alot of the people playing those games got tired of your game and the "lets switch this and that and then make them buy something new" tactics.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281548</id>
	<title>Re:Open Source Gaming</title>
	<author>Teancum</author>
	<datestamp>1259670780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is nothing stopping you from doing this, but I'd have to say:  Making up a whole gaming system is hardly trivial or easy to accomplish, particularly trying to balance out all of the aspects of the game so that it is just complicated to keep smart people interested, letting folks of...er... lesser intellect to also enjoy the game in some aspect, and to keep the "arms race" under control so you don't have to introduce god-like creatures just to provide a minor challenge.</p><p>In the process of coming up with a game system like this, if it is good enough, it would also be worth a fair amount of money.  So tell me.... how is somebody who comes up with this system going to be compensated for their effort and time for designing such a system?  If you have put enough effort and have tested the gaming system enough that it is pretty well balanced that it can compete with the major role playing game systems, the siren call of commercial profits is hard to resist.</p><p>BTW, even if you could come up with a system like this that is fairly well balanced, the next trick is to somehow get the mindshare of the gaming public interested in the game enough to start creating other content for that gaming system.  That isn't trivial either.</p><p>This said, if you are still not discouraged at this prospect and really want to create a collaboratively designed game based on the model of a GNU project, you can head over to <a href="http://www.wikia.com/" title="wikia.com">Wikia</a> [wikia.com] and set up a wiki based on this concept or go to one of several other wiki hosting services including perhaps the Free Software Foundation and seeing if you might get support from them to help with hosting the servers.</p><p>I've seen other attempts to get something like this to work out.  I had a friend of mine actually go through the effort on the commercial side and even got the basic rulebook published.  While he did enjoy some minor commercial success, it was not a trivial thing to even go from published material and try to get the mindshare of enough players to be able to devote the full time effort it takes to get the game improving from that point on.</p><p>Seriously though, if you get past these obstacles and get even the fundamentals of a gaming system together that would work with open source principles and have something you think is worth the effort.... let me know!  I might contribute to the effort as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is nothing stopping you from doing this , but I 'd have to say : Making up a whole gaming system is hardly trivial or easy to accomplish , particularly trying to balance out all of the aspects of the game so that it is just complicated to keep smart people interested , letting folks of...er... lesser intellect to also enjoy the game in some aspect , and to keep the " arms race " under control so you do n't have to introduce god-like creatures just to provide a minor challenge.In the process of coming up with a game system like this , if it is good enough , it would also be worth a fair amount of money .
So tell me.... how is somebody who comes up with this system going to be compensated for their effort and time for designing such a system ?
If you have put enough effort and have tested the gaming system enough that it is pretty well balanced that it can compete with the major role playing game systems , the siren call of commercial profits is hard to resist.BTW , even if you could come up with a system like this that is fairly well balanced , the next trick is to somehow get the mindshare of the gaming public interested in the game enough to start creating other content for that gaming system .
That is n't trivial either.This said , if you are still not discouraged at this prospect and really want to create a collaboratively designed game based on the model of a GNU project , you can head over to Wikia [ wikia.com ] and set up a wiki based on this concept or go to one of several other wiki hosting services including perhaps the Free Software Foundation and seeing if you might get support from them to help with hosting the servers.I 've seen other attempts to get something like this to work out .
I had a friend of mine actually go through the effort on the commercial side and even got the basic rulebook published .
While he did enjoy some minor commercial success , it was not a trivial thing to even go from published material and try to get the mindshare of enough players to be able to devote the full time effort it takes to get the game improving from that point on.Seriously though , if you get past these obstacles and get even the fundamentals of a gaming system together that would work with open source principles and have something you think is worth the effort.... let me know !
I might contribute to the effort as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is nothing stopping you from doing this, but I'd have to say:  Making up a whole gaming system is hardly trivial or easy to accomplish, particularly trying to balance out all of the aspects of the game so that it is just complicated to keep smart people interested, letting folks of...er... lesser intellect to also enjoy the game in some aspect, and to keep the "arms race" under control so you don't have to introduce god-like creatures just to provide a minor challenge.In the process of coming up with a game system like this, if it is good enough, it would also be worth a fair amount of money.
So tell me.... how is somebody who comes up with this system going to be compensated for their effort and time for designing such a system?
If you have put enough effort and have tested the gaming system enough that it is pretty well balanced that it can compete with the major role playing game systems, the siren call of commercial profits is hard to resist.BTW, even if you could come up with a system like this that is fairly well balanced, the next trick is to somehow get the mindshare of the gaming public interested in the game enough to start creating other content for that gaming system.
That isn't trivial either.This said, if you are still not discouraged at this prospect and really want to create a collaboratively designed game based on the model of a GNU project, you can head over to Wikia [wikia.com] and set up a wiki based on this concept or go to one of several other wiki hosting services including perhaps the Free Software Foundation and seeing if you might get support from them to help with hosting the servers.I've seen other attempts to get something like this to work out.
I had a friend of mine actually go through the effort on the commercial side and even got the basic rulebook published.
While he did enjoy some minor commercial success, it was not a trivial thing to even go from published material and try to get the mindshare of enough players to be able to devote the full time effort it takes to get the game improving from that point on.Seriously though, if you get past these obstacles and get even the fundamentals of a gaming system together that would work with open source principles and have something you think is worth the effort.... let me know!
I might contribute to the effort as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280800</id>
	<title>Talk about Idiots</title>
	<author>DiSKiLLeR</author>
	<datestamp>1259662500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Talk about Idiots.</p><p>I know someone will step in with the proper history... but did you know, Blizzard was originally meant to make Warhammer games for Games Workshop?</p><p>After they had a falling out and denied blizzard their IP, blizzard modified it sufficiently and renamed it into Warcraft, releasing the original "Orcs and Humans" game. Needless to say, they've had nothing but the most immense success with Warcraft 2, Warcraft 3, various expansions, and now World of Warcraft and its Expansions. As well as giving it a Sci Fi twist and coming up with Starcraft 1 and 2.</p><p>I've always hope Games Workshop was kicking themselves hard over their stupidity for losing blizzard to make their own even more successful franchise when games such as Warhammer Online are a total flop.</p><p>But I guess they haven't really learned anything going by their current behaviour.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Talk about Idiots.I know someone will step in with the proper history... but did you know , Blizzard was originally meant to make Warhammer games for Games Workshop ? After they had a falling out and denied blizzard their IP , blizzard modified it sufficiently and renamed it into Warcraft , releasing the original " Orcs and Humans " game .
Needless to say , they 've had nothing but the most immense success with Warcraft 2 , Warcraft 3 , various expansions , and now World of Warcraft and its Expansions .
As well as giving it a Sci Fi twist and coming up with Starcraft 1 and 2.I 've always hope Games Workshop was kicking themselves hard over their stupidity for losing blizzard to make their own even more successful franchise when games such as Warhammer Online are a total flop.But I guess they have n't really learned anything going by their current behaviour .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Talk about Idiots.I know someone will step in with the proper history... but did you know, Blizzard was originally meant to make Warhammer games for Games Workshop?After they had a falling out and denied blizzard their IP, blizzard modified it sufficiently and renamed it into Warcraft, releasing the original "Orcs and Humans" game.
Needless to say, they've had nothing but the most immense success with Warcraft 2, Warcraft 3, various expansions, and now World of Warcraft and its Expansions.
As well as giving it a Sci Fi twist and coming up with Starcraft 1 and 2.I've always hope Games Workshop was kicking themselves hard over their stupidity for losing blizzard to make their own even more successful franchise when games such as Warhammer Online are a total flop.But I guess they haven't really learned anything going by their current behaviour.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30284046</id>
	<title>Re:Typical Games Workshop</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259686560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> What are some of GW's best games?  Mordheim (discontinued), BloodBowl (discontinued, though I expect it will come back now they've got a computer version), Battlefleet Gothic (discontinued)... there's also Space Hulk, WarMaster, Epic 40K, Inquisiter, and others, all released, pushed until they got popular, then canceled.  THAT was why I gave up on GW.</p></div><p>Just to qualify the 'discontinued' statement... you are aware that most of these games (and accessories) can be purchased via their website? Check under specialist games.</p><p>Just putting this out there, because for years I thought Blood Bowl was out of print and I spent ages looking for an (affordable) second hand Blood Bowl box, until I finally noticed I could just buy a new box online. I would have seriously kicked myself at the time, had I not been so happy.</p><p>T.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What are some of GW 's best games ?
Mordheim ( discontinued ) , BloodBowl ( discontinued , though I expect it will come back now they 've got a computer version ) , Battlefleet Gothic ( discontinued ) ... there 's also Space Hulk , WarMaster , Epic 40K , Inquisiter , and others , all released , pushed until they got popular , then canceled .
THAT was why I gave up on GW.Just to qualify the 'discontinued ' statement... you are aware that most of these games ( and accessories ) can be purchased via their website ?
Check under specialist games.Just putting this out there , because for years I thought Blood Bowl was out of print and I spent ages looking for an ( affordable ) second hand Blood Bowl box , until I finally noticed I could just buy a new box online .
I would have seriously kicked myself at the time , had I not been so happy.T .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> What are some of GW's best games?
Mordheim (discontinued), BloodBowl (discontinued, though I expect it will come back now they've got a computer version), Battlefleet Gothic (discontinued)... there's also Space Hulk, WarMaster, Epic 40K, Inquisiter, and others, all released, pushed until they got popular, then canceled.
THAT was why I gave up on GW.Just to qualify the 'discontinued' statement... you are aware that most of these games (and accessories) can be purchased via their website?
Check under specialist games.Just putting this out there, because for years I thought Blood Bowl was out of print and I spent ages looking for an (affordable) second hand Blood Bowl box, until I finally noticed I could just buy a new box online.
I would have seriously kicked myself at the time, had I not been so happy.T.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282444</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30289122</id>
	<title>Re:Talk about Idiots</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259663160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Their aggressive legal stance lost them blizzard, not the other way around.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Their aggressive legal stance lost them blizzard , not the other way around .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Their aggressive legal stance lost them blizzard, not the other way around.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281364</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30300764</id>
	<title>Re:Space Hulk</title>
	<author>Alex777</author>
	<datestamp>1259612580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The reason why SH has tumbled down the BGG rankings, is because of people revising their ratings downward.  I, for example, gave it a 1- the lowest rating, typically reserved for broken games.

Since BGG no longer allows user content submissions for it (or any other GW game), I think "broken" is an apt description.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason why SH has tumbled down the BGG rankings , is because of people revising their ratings downward .
I , for example , gave it a 1- the lowest rating , typically reserved for broken games .
Since BGG no longer allows user content submissions for it ( or any other GW game ) , I think " broken " is an apt description .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason why SH has tumbled down the BGG rankings, is because of people revising their ratings downward.
I, for example, gave it a 1- the lowest rating, typically reserved for broken games.
Since BGG no longer allows user content submissions for it (or any other GW game), I think "broken" is an apt description.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281128</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281228</id>
	<title>While we are mentioning fan projects GW shut down</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259666640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Might as well mention the fan-made video game Space Hulk<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... former Space Hulk that is. After getting threatened by GW and stalled for a long time they apparently pulled a Blizzard and rebranded the game with their own scenario.</p><p>It's called Alien Assault now: http://teardown.se/ No more free PR for Games Workshop I guess. Instead, lots of negative publicity all around gaming sites<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Might as well mention the fan-made video game Space Hulk ... former Space Hulk that is .
After getting threatened by GW and stalled for a long time they apparently pulled a Blizzard and rebranded the game with their own scenario.It 's called Alien Assault now : http : //teardown.se/ No more free PR for Games Workshop I guess .
Instead , lots of negative publicity all around gaming sites : D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Might as well mention the fan-made video game Space Hulk ... former Space Hulk that is.
After getting threatened by GW and stalled for a long time they apparently pulled a Blizzard and rebranded the game with their own scenario.It's called Alien Assault now: http://teardown.se/ No more free PR for Games Workshop I guess.
Instead, lots of negative publicity all around gaming sites :D</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282198</id>
	<title>A new motto?</title>
	<author>garg0yle</author>
	<datestamp>1259677620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Games Workshop - good games that cost too much.</p><p>I never understood why they keep letting Space Hulk go out of print, then bringing it back, then letting it go out of print.  The third edition is very "pretty" (nice sculpts on the figures), but apparently it basically sold out in record time and GW said "We're not making any more".</p><p>It's like they have a license to print money, say "Nah, we have enough", but then won't let anyone else have any?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Games Workshop - good games that cost too much.I never understood why they keep letting Space Hulk go out of print , then bringing it back , then letting it go out of print .
The third edition is very " pretty " ( nice sculpts on the figures ) , but apparently it basically sold out in record time and GW said " We 're not making any more " .It 's like they have a license to print money , say " Nah , we have enough " , but then wo n't let anyone else have any ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Games Workshop - good games that cost too much.I never understood why they keep letting Space Hulk go out of print, then bringing it back, then letting it go out of print.
The third edition is very "pretty" (nice sculpts on the figures), but apparently it basically sold out in record time and GW said "We're not making any more".It's like they have a license to print money, say "Nah, we have enough", but then won't let anyone else have any?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281088</id>
	<title>Surely this is the topic where...</title>
	<author>williamhb</author>
	<datestamp>1259665320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Surely this is the topic where the moderation ought to be "<b>+1</b> Troll".</p><p>(And if it's a troll, I'm guessing it's +1 to the strength stat.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Surely this is the topic where the moderation ought to be " + 1 Troll " .
( And if it 's a troll , I 'm guessing it 's + 1 to the strength stat .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surely this is the topic where the moderation ought to be "+1 Troll".
(And if it's a troll, I'm guessing it's +1 to the strength stat.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30291070</id>
	<title>Re:Open Source Gaming</title>
	<author>azereal</author>
	<datestamp>1259671800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The free (as in beer) rules I have seen garner the most attention as an alternative to Warhammer 40k are No Limits. I've even seen some army lists for using w40k miniatures with it.

Site:
<a href="http://www.wargamesunlimited.net/nolimits/index.html" title="wargamesunlimited.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.wargamesunlimited.net/nolimits/index.html</a> [wargamesunlimited.net]</htmltext>
<tokenext>The free ( as in beer ) rules I have seen garner the most attention as an alternative to Warhammer 40k are No Limits .
I 've even seen some army lists for using w40k miniatures with it .
Site : http : //www.wargamesunlimited.net/nolimits/index.html [ wargamesunlimited.net ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The free (as in beer) rules I have seen garner the most attention as an alternative to Warhammer 40k are No Limits.
I've even seen some army lists for using w40k miniatures with it.
Site:
http://www.wargamesunlimited.net/nolimits/index.html [wargamesunlimited.net]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281588</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282936</id>
	<title>Re:F'ed over the RPG crowd too</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259681880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm really glad Fantasy Flight took over the RPG. I got to play the new "Dark Heresy" Warhammer 40k RPG last year (with one of the guys that made it) and it was great. There's a new one ("Rogue Trader") out soon/now and I'd like to check it out also. No miniatures, no foam carving, just a book, a couple dice, and some sheets of paper. Go FF! Boo GW!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm really glad Fantasy Flight took over the RPG .
I got to play the new " Dark Heresy " Warhammer 40k RPG last year ( with one of the guys that made it ) and it was great .
There 's a new one ( " Rogue Trader " ) out soon/now and I 'd like to check it out also .
No miniatures , no foam carving , just a book , a couple dice , and some sheets of paper .
Go FF !
Boo GW !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm really glad Fantasy Flight took over the RPG.
I got to play the new "Dark Heresy" Warhammer 40k RPG last year (with one of the guys that made it) and it was great.
There's a new one ("Rogue Trader") out soon/now and I'd like to check it out also.
No miniatures, no foam carving, just a book, a couple dice, and some sheets of paper.
Go FF!
Boo GW!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280866</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30283944</id>
	<title>Re:Fair use is a legal right...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259686200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been playing WH since day ONE (I don't joke, no) and I have never seen Warcraft as a Warhammer thingy - how can then Starcraft, even further away be that?</p><p>Games Workshop is out of line. Period.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been playing WH since day ONE ( I do n't joke , no ) and I have never seen Warcraft as a Warhammer thingy - how can then Starcraft , even further away be that ? Games Workshop is out of line .
Period .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been playing WH since day ONE (I don't joke, no) and I have never seen Warcraft as a Warhammer thingy - how can then Starcraft, even further away be that?Games Workshop is out of line.
Period.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281320</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30283288</id>
	<title>Re:No respect for intellectual property...</title>
	<author>jamesbulman</author>
	<datestamp>1259683260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't get this whining about contracts that have been freely entered into. If it's so bad, why do people (you?) agree to their terms? Just don't sell Games Workshop product, sell something else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't get this whining about contracts that have been freely entered into .
If it 's so bad , why do people ( you ?
) agree to their terms ?
Just do n't sell Games Workshop product , sell something else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't get this whining about contracts that have been freely entered into.
If it's so bad, why do people (you?
) agree to their terms?
Just don't sell Games Workshop product, sell something else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282420</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30286090</id>
	<title>Re:Talk about Idiots</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259695080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>[citation needed]</p><p>Warcraft: Orcs and Humans being a Warhammer game is nothing more than an urban legend. Yes, it is very clearly inspired by Warhammer, but there's NO evidence whatsoever to imply it was going to be a Warhammer game at any time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>[ citation needed ] Warcraft : Orcs and Humans being a Warhammer game is nothing more than an urban legend .
Yes , it is very clearly inspired by Warhammer , but there 's NO evidence whatsoever to imply it was going to be a Warhammer game at any time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[citation needed]Warcraft: Orcs and Humans being a Warhammer game is nothing more than an urban legend.
Yes, it is very clearly inspired by Warhammer, but there's NO evidence whatsoever to imply it was going to be a Warhammer game at any time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280800</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281812</id>
	<title>Re:Fair use is a legal right...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259673540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Games Workshop is a British company.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Games Workshop is a British company .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Games Workshop is a British company.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30280778</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30290806</id>
	<title>Re:Fair use is a legal right...</title>
	<author>Nicolay77</author>
	<datestamp>1259670600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's the fault of GW for backing out of a good deal with the games development company.</p><p>Must pay the price for their arrogance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the fault of GW for backing out of a good deal with the games development company.Must pay the price for their arrogance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the fault of GW for backing out of a good deal with the games development company.Must pay the price for their arrogance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282614</id>
	<title>Re:Open Source Gaming</title>
	<author>Gauthic</author>
	<datestamp>1259679900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I tried such a project almost a year ago to get people interested in and working on such a system, but I've both lost free time to work on it, and I've not seen any interest over the Internet.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.openwargaming.com/" title="openwargaming.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.openwargaming.com/</a> [openwargaming.com] if you're interested.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I tried such a project almost a year ago to get people interested in and working on such a system , but I 've both lost free time to work on it , and I 've not seen any interest over the Internet .
http : //www.openwargaming.com/ [ openwargaming.com ] if you 're interested .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I tried such a project almost a year ago to get people interested in and working on such a system, but I've both lost free time to work on it, and I've not seen any interest over the Internet.
http://www.openwargaming.com/ [openwargaming.com] if you're interested.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30285266</id>
	<title>Heroquest...</title>
	<author>BobMcD</author>
	<datestamp>1259691960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My wife brought home a nearly-complete box of Heroquest from a yard sale a while back.  I was all nostalgic, but it was my son who truly fell in love.  He's seven, you see, and loves to do cool stuff with his dad.</p><p>Used to be, you could get scans of cards, rulebooks, and other things that were lost or damaged on the internet.  I guess not so much anymore.</p><p>The sad thing is, there's no replacement on the market either.  Software, music, movies and the like I can understand a bit better.  I don't copy, I go buy a copy.  Check.  What about obscure board games that aren't published any more?  GW is out of that genre, and I am out in the cold, I guess.</p><p>Shouldn't this stuff go into the public domain once the publisher has abandoned it?  Does a publisher really have the right to limit access as a way to drive demand for future products?  Should they?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife brought home a nearly-complete box of Heroquest from a yard sale a while back .
I was all nostalgic , but it was my son who truly fell in love .
He 's seven , you see , and loves to do cool stuff with his dad.Used to be , you could get scans of cards , rulebooks , and other things that were lost or damaged on the internet .
I guess not so much anymore.The sad thing is , there 's no replacement on the market either .
Software , music , movies and the like I can understand a bit better .
I do n't copy , I go buy a copy .
Check. What about obscure board games that are n't published any more ?
GW is out of that genre , and I am out in the cold , I guess.Should n't this stuff go into the public domain once the publisher has abandoned it ?
Does a publisher really have the right to limit access as a way to drive demand for future products ?
Should they ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife brought home a nearly-complete box of Heroquest from a yard sale a while back.
I was all nostalgic, but it was my son who truly fell in love.
He's seven, you see, and loves to do cool stuff with his dad.Used to be, you could get scans of cards, rulebooks, and other things that were lost or damaged on the internet.
I guess not so much anymore.The sad thing is, there's no replacement on the market either.
Software, music, movies and the like I can understand a bit better.
I don't copy, I go buy a copy.
Check.  What about obscure board games that aren't published any more?
GW is out of that genre, and I am out in the cold, I guess.Shouldn't this stuff go into the public domain once the publisher has abandoned it?
Does a publisher really have the right to limit access as a way to drive demand for future products?
Should they?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282146</id>
	<title>GW's new line of business</title>
	<author>5150</author>
	<datestamp>1259677140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unfortunately GW seem to spend more time putting the legal smack down on fans than they do producing gaming material, I'd say the tabletop battles come in second against the court room battles.</p><p>An unfortunate side effect of their popularity has been a sad slide to high prices, less innovation (just the same army's rules regurgitated for the new rule system that wasn't really needed anyway) and rehashing the same figures to try and get the kids to keep buying to stay 'cool'</p><p>Personally I'm still gaming with my Rogue Trader era beakie/womble marines I've had for years and only tend to get new staff when once-in-a-blue-moon a new army comes out that seems worth collecting. But I also tend to get my newer stuff off eBay now anyway rather than pay their high street prices!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately GW seem to spend more time putting the legal smack down on fans than they do producing gaming material , I 'd say the tabletop battles come in second against the court room battles.An unfortunate side effect of their popularity has been a sad slide to high prices , less innovation ( just the same army 's rules regurgitated for the new rule system that was n't really needed anyway ) and rehashing the same figures to try and get the kids to keep buying to stay 'cool'Personally I 'm still gaming with my Rogue Trader era beakie/womble marines I 've had for years and only tend to get new staff when once-in-a-blue-moon a new army comes out that seems worth collecting .
But I also tend to get my newer stuff off eBay now anyway rather than pay their high street prices !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately GW seem to spend more time putting the legal smack down on fans than they do producing gaming material, I'd say the tabletop battles come in second against the court room battles.An unfortunate side effect of their popularity has been a sad slide to high prices, less innovation (just the same army's rules regurgitated for the new rule system that wasn't really needed anyway) and rehashing the same figures to try and get the kids to keep buying to stay 'cool'Personally I'm still gaming with my Rogue Trader era beakie/womble marines I've had for years and only tend to get new staff when once-in-a-blue-moon a new army comes out that seems worth collecting.
But I also tend to get my newer stuff off eBay now anyway rather than pay their high street prices!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30282664</id>
	<title>Re:Open Source Gaming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259680260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Game design is all about statistics. I hope you're good with calculating probabilities, bud. Balance is paramount.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Game design is all about statistics .
I hope you 're good with calculating probabilities , bud .
Balance is paramount .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Game design is all about statistics.
I hope you're good with calculating probabilities, bud.
Balance is paramount.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281128</id>
	<title>Space Hulk</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259665680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>BGG's game ranking charts are quite influential in the board-gaming world. A lot of local hobby stores have them up on the wall as a quick guide to some excellent games. Until quite recently, Games Workshop's new edition of Space Hulk was in the top ten games. It's now dropped to number 170.</p><p>Well, I guess that's what happens when you value greed more than public relations or your fan base (although BGG isn't really oriented towards GW's bread-and-butter of miniatures wargaming).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>BGG 's game ranking charts are quite influential in the board-gaming world .
A lot of local hobby stores have them up on the wall as a quick guide to some excellent games .
Until quite recently , Games Workshop 's new edition of Space Hulk was in the top ten games .
It 's now dropped to number 170.Well , I guess that 's what happens when you value greed more than public relations or your fan base ( although BGG is n't really oriented towards GW 's bread-and-butter of miniatures wargaming ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>BGG's game ranking charts are quite influential in the board-gaming world.
A lot of local hobby stores have them up on the wall as a quick guide to some excellent games.
Until quite recently, Games Workshop's new edition of Space Hulk was in the top ten games.
It's now dropped to number 170.Well, I guess that's what happens when you value greed more than public relations or your fan base (although BGG isn't really oriented towards GW's bread-and-butter of miniatures wargaming).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_12_01_070232.30281194</id>
	<title>GW</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259666220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GW have become the biggest problem in Wargaming, their game systems are terrible and their approach to making profits is "Jack up prices to make up for less customers". They keep releasing new editions which dumb the rules down and then they release army rulebooks where there is no balance (in Fantasy there are 3 tier 1 armies, you play 1 or you lose to them, in a game of 15 factions or so), but little kids buy into GW as the gateway drug. They are only just starting to release nice models, but you need so many of them it becomes insanely expensive to build any sort of real army.</p><p>If you're a wargamer and wish to play a good game and support a good company then get into Warmachine/Hordes. It's a more mature game with better quality miniatures, with balanced rules and a company that supports it's fans. Privateer press are updating to a MKII version for January, in doing so they have released the rules for every model and the main rulebook for MKII for free on PDF. They also consider fan feedback in balancing things, they are currently running a fieldtest for the beta rules for Hordes MKII, fans get to play the game and they can give feedback on how to buff/nerf a model if they wish. PP take this into consideration and did fix issues with Warmachine MKII models.</p><p>Privateer also support their game systems. They started out making D20 books but moved onto Wargaming (and now boardgames) and intend to return to the roleplaying side of things where possible, but in their bi-monthly Magazine you will always find 5 pages dedicated to a new scenario for the roleplaying, as well as about 10 pages of solid fluff for the Iron Kingdoms, some examples are alchemist guilds famous through out the land to how humans discovered magic and the secret society that grew up from that. To supplement this, their roleplaying books are now out of print, so they have put them up as PDFs for people to download from several E book sites.</p><p>Privateer press are not perfect and maybe in the future they will become the new GW, but as a wargamer I am happy to support a company that tries to support the community around it. One example that sticks out in my mind is there was a new faction released recently, on the forums people were discussing what their robots were made out of, no one was quite sure and one guy requested some official word. 20 minutes later the lead writer had posted with at least an A4 page's worth of text explaining every possible detail you could wish on the subject. PP isn't a small company and yet it's staff members still do things like this and get "into the trenches" with the fans.</p><p>Disclaimer : I play PP games, I don't work for them in any way. I dislike GW because I see what a mess they make and yet they keep selling people their personal brand of crack, which restricts the wargaming industry and does more harm than good in general.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GW have become the biggest problem in Wargaming , their game systems are terrible and their approach to making profits is " Jack up prices to make up for less customers " .
They keep releasing new editions which dumb the rules down and then they release army rulebooks where there is no balance ( in Fantasy there are 3 tier 1 armies , you play 1 or you lose to them , in a game of 15 factions or so ) , but little kids buy into GW as the gateway drug .
They are only just starting to release nice models , but you need so many of them it becomes insanely expensive to build any sort of real army.If you 're a wargamer and wish to play a good game and support a good company then get into Warmachine/Hordes .
It 's a more mature game with better quality miniatures , with balanced rules and a company that supports it 's fans .
Privateer press are updating to a MKII version for January , in doing so they have released the rules for every model and the main rulebook for MKII for free on PDF .
They also consider fan feedback in balancing things , they are currently running a fieldtest for the beta rules for Hordes MKII , fans get to play the game and they can give feedback on how to buff/nerf a model if they wish .
PP take this into consideration and did fix issues with Warmachine MKII models.Privateer also support their game systems .
They started out making D20 books but moved onto Wargaming ( and now boardgames ) and intend to return to the roleplaying side of things where possible , but in their bi-monthly Magazine you will always find 5 pages dedicated to a new scenario for the roleplaying , as well as about 10 pages of solid fluff for the Iron Kingdoms , some examples are alchemist guilds famous through out the land to how humans discovered magic and the secret society that grew up from that .
To supplement this , their roleplaying books are now out of print , so they have put them up as PDFs for people to download from several E book sites.Privateer press are not perfect and maybe in the future they will become the new GW , but as a wargamer I am happy to support a company that tries to support the community around it .
One example that sticks out in my mind is there was a new faction released recently , on the forums people were discussing what their robots were made out of , no one was quite sure and one guy requested some official word .
20 minutes later the lead writer had posted with at least an A4 page 's worth of text explaining every possible detail you could wish on the subject .
PP is n't a small company and yet it 's staff members still do things like this and get " into the trenches " with the fans.Disclaimer : I play PP games , I do n't work for them in any way .
I dislike GW because I see what a mess they make and yet they keep selling people their personal brand of crack , which restricts the wargaming industry and does more harm than good in general .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GW have become the biggest problem in Wargaming, their game systems are terrible and their approach to making profits is "Jack up prices to make up for less customers".
They keep releasing new editions which dumb the rules down and then they release army rulebooks where there is no balance (in Fantasy there are 3 tier 1 armies, you play 1 or you lose to them, in a game of 15 factions or so), but little kids buy into GW as the gateway drug.
They are only just starting to release nice models, but you need so many of them it becomes insanely expensive to build any sort of real army.If you're a wargamer and wish to play a good game and support a good company then get into Warmachine/Hordes.
It's a more mature game with better quality miniatures, with balanced rules and a company that supports it's fans.
Privateer press are updating to a MKII version for January, in doing so they have released the rules for every model and the main rulebook for MKII for free on PDF.
They also consider fan feedback in balancing things, they are currently running a fieldtest for the beta rules for Hordes MKII, fans get to play the game and they can give feedback on how to buff/nerf a model if they wish.
PP take this into consideration and did fix issues with Warmachine MKII models.Privateer also support their game systems.
They started out making D20 books but moved onto Wargaming (and now boardgames) and intend to return to the roleplaying side of things where possible, but in their bi-monthly Magazine you will always find 5 pages dedicated to a new scenario for the roleplaying, as well as about 10 pages of solid fluff for the Iron Kingdoms, some examples are alchemist guilds famous through out the land to how humans discovered magic and the secret society that grew up from that.
To supplement this, their roleplaying books are now out of print, so they have put them up as PDFs for people to download from several E book sites.Privateer press are not perfect and maybe in the future they will become the new GW, but as a wargamer I am happy to support a company that tries to support the community around it.
One example that sticks out in my mind is there was a new faction released recently, on the forums people were discussing what their robots were made out of, no one was quite sure and one guy requested some official word.
20 minutes later the lead writer had posted with at least an A4 page's worth of text explaining every possible detail you could wish on the subject.
PP isn't a small company and yet it's staff members still do things like this and get "into the trenches" with the fans.Disclaimer : I play PP games, I don't work for them in any way.
I dislike GW because I see what a mess they make and yet they keep selling people their personal brand of crack, which restricts the wargaming industry and does more harm than good in general.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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