<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_26_036230</id>
	<title>Ants That Can Count</title>
	<author>samzenpus</author>
	<datestamp>1259261520000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>thisIsOdd writes <i>"NPR had a recent report about scientists at the University of Ulm who suggest that <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120587095">ants in desert environments count to help them get to and from their homes</a>. Because the desert's windiness and sandiness is not conducive the 'smell-trail' method, where ants squeeze certain glands that leave a chemical trail, scientists were puzzled by the fact that these desert ants were able to leave and successfully return to their nest. The theory is called the 'pedometer theory,' and the experiment used to test it involves manipulating the leg length of some of these ants. Ants with longer legs would pass the nest on the way home, and ones with shorter legs came up... well... short."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>thisIsOdd writes " NPR had a recent report about scientists at the University of Ulm who suggest that ants in desert environments count to help them get to and from their homes .
Because the desert 's windiness and sandiness is not conducive the 'smell-trail ' method , where ants squeeze certain glands that leave a chemical trail , scientists were puzzled by the fact that these desert ants were able to leave and successfully return to their nest .
The theory is called the 'pedometer theory, ' and the experiment used to test it involves manipulating the leg length of some of these ants .
Ants with longer legs would pass the nest on the way home , and ones with shorter legs came up... well... short .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>thisIsOdd writes "NPR had a recent report about scientists at the University of Ulm who suggest that ants in desert environments count to help them get to and from their homes.
Because the desert's windiness and sandiness is not conducive the 'smell-trail' method, where ants squeeze certain glands that leave a chemical trail, scientists were puzzled by the fact that these desert ants were able to leave and successfully return to their nest.
The theory is called the 'pedometer theory,' and the experiment used to test it involves manipulating the leg length of some of these ants.
Ants with longer legs would pass the nest on the way home, and ones with shorter legs came up... well... short.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30235140</id>
	<title>Re:Experimental set-up raises a few questions</title>
	<author>silentcoder</author>
	<datestamp>1259232120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually - you raise an interesting point, though I think the other stilt-test discounts it, but I remember reading that insects have neuron clusters on each limb, which respond to stimulus and control them. This is part of how they are able to navigate such complex terrain - dedicated mini-brains on each leg controlling just that leg.<br>One has to wonder if they made sure not to damage those nerve-clusters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually - you raise an interesting point , though I think the other stilt-test discounts it , but I remember reading that insects have neuron clusters on each limb , which respond to stimulus and control them .
This is part of how they are able to navigate such complex terrain - dedicated mini-brains on each leg controlling just that leg.One has to wonder if they made sure not to damage those nerve-clusters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually - you raise an interesting point, though I think the other stilt-test discounts it, but I remember reading that insects have neuron clusters on each limb, which respond to stimulus and control them.
This is part of how they are able to navigate such complex terrain - dedicated mini-brains on each leg controlling just that leg.One has to wonder if they made sure not to damage those nerve-clusters.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234540</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234572</id>
	<title>This is oooold news</title>
	<author>TubeSteak</author>
	<datestamp>1259267160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Science 30 June 2006:<br>The Ant Odometer: Stepping on Stilts and Stumps<br><a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/312/5782/1965" title="sciencemag.org">http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/312/5782/1965</a> [sciencemag.org]</p><p>And here's the original<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. story from 2006<br><a href="http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/30/006245" title="slashdot.org">http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/30/006245</a> [slashdot.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Science 30 June 2006 : The Ant Odometer : Stepping on Stilts and Stumpshttp : //www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/312/5782/1965 [ sciencemag.org ] And here 's the original / .
story from 2006http : //science.slashdot.org/article.pl ? sid = 06/06/30/006245 [ slashdot.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Science 30 June 2006:The Ant Odometer: Stepping on Stilts and Stumpshttp://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/312/5782/1965 [sciencemag.org]And here's the original /.
story from 2006http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/30/006245 [slashdot.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30237354</id>
	<title>Manipulating the leg length?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259253660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Best euphemism I've heard in a long time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Best euphemism I 've heard in a long time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Best euphemism I've heard in a long time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236186</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259244240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've read about these experiments before, and in my opinion the author of npr.org <strong>completely missed</strong> the most <strong>amazing</strong> point: the return way is always going home on a straight line, no matter how zigzag the way to the food was. So the ants don't just count. They are able to add complex numbers in polar coordinates! Try this for yourself!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've read about these experiments before , and in my opinion the author of npr.org completely missed the most amazing point : the return way is always going home on a straight line , no matter how zigzag the way to the food was .
So the ants do n't just count .
They are able to add complex numbers in polar coordinates !
Try this for yourself !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've read about these experiments before, and in my opinion the author of npr.org completely missed the most amazing point: the return way is always going home on a straight line, no matter how zigzag the way to the food was.
So the ants don't just count.
They are able to add complex numbers in polar coordinates!
Try this for yourself!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234618</id>
	<title>that's a rather human-centric definition of count</title>
	<author>booyabazooka</author>
	<datestamp>1259267820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you think more abstractly...  There's no reason that "counting" has to denote that you mentally encode a number in decimal notation.  If you can remember some nontrivial quantity, regardless of what process you use to recall it, I see no reason why you can't call that "counting".</p><p>For example, we can say informally that a pushdown automaton has the ability to count, because it can retain some unbounded memory of the number of symbols it has encountered.  The information is there, even if you can't directly ask it and get an answer like "613".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you think more abstractly... There 's no reason that " counting " has to denote that you mentally encode a number in decimal notation .
If you can remember some nontrivial quantity , regardless of what process you use to recall it , I see no reason why you ca n't call that " counting " .For example , we can say informally that a pushdown automaton has the ability to count , because it can retain some unbounded memory of the number of symbols it has encountered .
The information is there , even if you ca n't directly ask it and get an answer like " 613 " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you think more abstractly...  There's no reason that "counting" has to denote that you mentally encode a number in decimal notation.
If you can remember some nontrivial quantity, regardless of what process you use to recall it, I see no reason why you can't call that "counting".For example, we can say informally that a pushdown automaton has the ability to count, because it can retain some unbounded memory of the number of symbols it has encountered.
The information is there, even if you can't directly ask it and get an answer like "613".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234626</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1259267940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uuum... What you describe IS counting.</p><p>It&rsquo;s astonishing to what lengths people go, to preserve their arrogant world view of &ldquo;superiority&rdquo;.<br>A hundred years ago, common &ldquo;knowledge&rdquo; was, that animals don&rsquo;t &ldquo;think&rdquo; and have no &ldquo;souls&rdquo; or &ldquo;emotions&rdquo;. They thought they simply simulate it and are in fact basic automatons.</p><p>Well, nowadays we know, that we are basic automatons too. That thinking and emotions <em>are</em> merely mechanisms. And that there is no &ldquo;soul&rdquo;, nor a need for something like that.</p><p>Let&rsquo;s play this game: I say: You simulate thinking too. Including counting! And I will your method of argumentation to defend it.<br>And you will try to prove that you really think and can count.<br>You will notice that as long as you play by my rules, you can&rsquo;t win. ^^</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uuum... What you describe IS counting.It    s astonishing to what lengths people go , to preserve their arrogant world view of    superiority    .A hundred years ago , common    knowledge    was , that animals don    t    think    and have no    souls    or    emotions    .
They thought they simply simulate it and are in fact basic automatons.Well , nowadays we know , that we are basic automatons too .
That thinking and emotions are merely mechanisms .
And that there is no    soul    , nor a need for something like that.Let    s play this game : I say : You simulate thinking too .
Including counting !
And I will your method of argumentation to defend it.And you will try to prove that you really think and can count.You will notice that as long as you play by my rules , you can    t win .
^ ^</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uuum... What you describe IS counting.It’s astonishing to what lengths people go, to preserve their arrogant world view of “superiority”.A hundred years ago, common “knowledge” was, that animals don’t “think” and have no “souls” or “emotions”.
They thought they simply simulate it and are in fact basic automatons.Well, nowadays we know, that we are basic automatons too.
That thinking and emotions are merely mechanisms.
And that there is no “soul”, nor a need for something like that.Let’s play this game: I say: You simulate thinking too.
Including counting!
And I will your method of argumentation to defend it.And you will try to prove that you really think and can count.You will notice that as long as you play by my rules, you can’t win.
^^</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30237934</id>
	<title>Re:that accounts for distance...</title>
	<author>hrimhari</author>
	<datestamp>1259258460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From TFA:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>It's already known that ants use celestial clues to establish the general direction home</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From TFA : It 's already known that ants use celestial clues to establish the general direction home</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From TFA:It's already known that ants use celestial clues to establish the general direction home
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234492</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234562</id>
	<title>How many steps before register overflow?</title>
	<author>dirkdodgers</author>
	<datestamp>1259267100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can think of a number of follow-on experiments to tell us more about this mechanic.</p><p>First I think you'd want to establish more conclusively that it is counting or memory of steps or actions, and not something in the environment:<br>- Replace the sand behind them on their path and see whether they can still get back.<br>- Put them on a treadmill to get to their location and back so that their aren't actually moving relative to the earth and see whether they still get back.<br>- Once this get to the food, rotate the artificial section of ground it is on 180 degrees and see whether they still get back.<br>- Change the wind direction in an artificial environment and see whether they can still get back.<br>- Reverse the location of the primary light source in an artificial environment and see whether they can still get back.</p><p>Then explore the limits of the counting or action memory mechanism:<br>- Keep extending the number of steps to get to food until they can't remember how many steps to get back.<br>- Keep extending the number of steps in a path with a turn in it, on each side of the turn, and compare to the path with no turn.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can think of a number of follow-on experiments to tell us more about this mechanic.First I think you 'd want to establish more conclusively that it is counting or memory of steps or actions , and not something in the environment : - Replace the sand behind them on their path and see whether they can still get back.- Put them on a treadmill to get to their location and back so that their are n't actually moving relative to the earth and see whether they still get back.- Once this get to the food , rotate the artificial section of ground it is on 180 degrees and see whether they still get back.- Change the wind direction in an artificial environment and see whether they can still get back.- Reverse the location of the primary light source in an artificial environment and see whether they can still get back.Then explore the limits of the counting or action memory mechanism : - Keep extending the number of steps to get to food until they ca n't remember how many steps to get back.- Keep extending the number of steps in a path with a turn in it , on each side of the turn , and compare to the path with no turn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can think of a number of follow-on experiments to tell us more about this mechanic.First I think you'd want to establish more conclusively that it is counting or memory of steps or actions, and not something in the environment:- Replace the sand behind them on their path and see whether they can still get back.- Put them on a treadmill to get to their location and back so that their aren't actually moving relative to the earth and see whether they still get back.- Once this get to the food, rotate the artificial section of ground it is on 180 degrees and see whether they still get back.- Change the wind direction in an artificial environment and see whether they can still get back.- Reverse the location of the primary light source in an artificial environment and see whether they can still get back.Then explore the limits of the counting or action memory mechanism:- Keep extending the number of steps to get to food until they can't remember how many steps to get back.- Keep extending the number of steps in a path with a turn in it, on each side of the turn, and compare to the path with no turn.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236006</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can countChristmas gifs</title>
	<author>coolforsale127</author>
	<datestamp>1259242020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.coolforsale.com/" title="coolforsale.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.coolforsale.com/</a> [coolforsale.com]   Dear ladies and gentlemen Hello, In order to meet Christmas, Site launched Christmas spree, welcome new and old customers come to participate in the there are unexpected surprises, look forward to your arrival. Only this site have this treatmentOur goal is "Best quality, Best reputation , Best services". Your satisfaction is our main pursue. You can find the best products from us, meeting your different needs. Ladies and Gentlemen weicome to my coolforsale.com.Here,there are the most fashion products . Pass by but don't miss it.Select your favorite clothing! Welcome to come next time ! Thank you! <a href="http://www.coolforsale.com/productlist.asp?id=s76" title="coolforsale.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.coolforsale.com/productlist.asp?id=s76</a> [coolforsale.com]   (Tracksuit w),ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket,,Air jordan(1-24)shoes $33,Nike shox(R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3) $35,Handbags(Coach lv fendi d&amp;g) $35,Tshirts (Polo<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,ed hardy,lacoste) $16,free shipping,Thanks!!! Advance wish you a merry Christmas.</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.coolforsale.com/ [ coolforsale.com ] Dear ladies and gentlemen Hello , In order to meet Christmas , Site launched Christmas spree , welcome new and old customers come to participate in the there are unexpected surprises , look forward to your arrival .
Only this site have this treatmentOur goal is " Best quality , Best reputation , Best services " .
Your satisfaction is our main pursue .
You can find the best products from us , meeting your different needs .
Ladies and Gentlemen weicome to my coolforsale.com.Here,there are the most fashion products .
Pass by but do n't miss it.Select your favorite clothing !
Welcome to come next time !
Thank you !
http : //www.coolforsale.com/productlist.asp ? id = s76 [ coolforsale.com ] ( Tracksuit w ) ,ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket,,Air jordan ( 1-24 ) shoes $ 33,Nike shox ( R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3 ) $ 35,Handbags ( Coach lv fendi d&amp;g ) $ 35,Tshirts ( Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste ) $ 16,free shipping,Thanks ! ! !
Advance wish you a merry Christmas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.coolforsale.com/ [coolforsale.com]   Dear ladies and gentlemen Hello, In order to meet Christmas, Site launched Christmas spree, welcome new and old customers come to participate in the there are unexpected surprises, look forward to your arrival.
Only this site have this treatmentOur goal is "Best quality, Best reputation , Best services".
Your satisfaction is our main pursue.
You can find the best products from us, meeting your different needs.
Ladies and Gentlemen weicome to my coolforsale.com.Here,there are the most fashion products .
Pass by but don't miss it.Select your favorite clothing!
Welcome to come next time !
Thank you!
http://www.coolforsale.com/productlist.asp?id=s76 [coolforsale.com]   (Tracksuit w),ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket,,Air jordan(1-24)shoes $33,Nike shox(R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3) $35,Handbags(Coach lv fendi d&amp;g) $35,Tshirts (Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste) $16,free shipping,Thanks!!!
Advance wish you a merry Christmas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234862</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>timmarhy</author>
	<datestamp>1259228520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>there is no difference between subconsiously counting the beats and consiously doing it - it's still counting the beats. your confusing counting with mroe complex MATHS, which as far as we know ants can't do.</htmltext>
<tokenext>there is no difference between subconsiously counting the beats and consiously doing it - it 's still counting the beats .
your confusing counting with mroe complex MATHS , which as far as we know ants ca n't do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>there is no difference between subconsiously counting the beats and consiously doing it - it's still counting the beats.
your confusing counting with mroe complex MATHS, which as far as we know ants can't do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234552</id>
	<title>I heard one of the ants in the experiment speaking</title>
	<author>MarkRose</author>
	<datestamp>1259266980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Help! Help! I c'ant find my home!" she said.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Help !
Help ! I c'ant find my home !
" she said .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Help!
Help! I c'ant find my home!
" she said.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30235594</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>SolitaryMan</author>
	<datestamp>1259236860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The GP's argument that it CAN be done without counting is still valid, as he provided himself as a counter-example.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The GP 's argument that it CAN be done without counting is still valid , as he provided himself as a counter-example .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The GP's argument that it CAN be done without counting is still valid, as he provided himself as a counter-example.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234544</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236682</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>Snaller</author>
	<datestamp>1259248620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And there are a lot of Ant drummers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And there are a lot of Ant drummers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And there are a lot of Ant drummers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30235188</id>
	<title>peh</title>
	<author>fireylord</author>
	<datestamp>1259232540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>you just aim for the thorax, one shot brings them down.

Would you like to know more?</htmltext>
<tokenext>you just aim for the thorax , one shot brings them down .
Would you like to know more ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you just aim for the thorax, one shot brings them down.
Would you like to know more?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234660</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234876</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1259228880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What next, you'll be saying that a child who catches a ball thrown by the parent isn't doing quadratics in his head, or that a child recognizing a pitch of sound isn't doing a fourier analysis in his head. Pshaw!

</p><p>But really, as you say, there are many ways to implement "don't walk past the home nest" than counting the number of ant steps. Assuming a consistent pace, walking for some amount of time would do, or walking until you get run down a certain amount, etc. Once near the nest, there are presumably other markers to help home in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What next , you 'll be saying that a child who catches a ball thrown by the parent is n't doing quadratics in his head , or that a child recognizing a pitch of sound is n't doing a fourier analysis in his head .
Pshaw ! But really , as you say , there are many ways to implement " do n't walk past the home nest " than counting the number of ant steps .
Assuming a consistent pace , walking for some amount of time would do , or walking until you get run down a certain amount , etc .
Once near the nest , there are presumably other markers to help home in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What next, you'll be saying that a child who catches a ball thrown by the parent isn't doing quadratics in his head, or that a child recognizing a pitch of sound isn't doing a fourier analysis in his head.
Pshaw!

But really, as you say, there are many ways to implement "don't walk past the home nest" than counting the number of ant steps.
Assuming a consistent pace, walking for some amount of time would do, or walking until you get run down a certain amount, etc.
Once near the nest, there are presumably other markers to help home in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30237442</id>
	<title>Re:I felt a pang...</title>
	<author>Sanat</author>
	<datestamp>1259254380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lovely Homepage you have there. In spite of what you might believe in this now moment... you are destined for an exciting and interesting life. Thanks you for sharing with us.</p><p>Sanat</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lovely Homepage you have there .
In spite of what you might believe in this now moment... you are destined for an exciting and interesting life .
Thanks you for sharing with us.Sanat</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lovely Homepage you have there.
In spite of what you might believe in this now moment... you are destined for an exciting and interesting life.
Thanks you for sharing with us.Sanat</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234806</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30237714</id>
	<title>Could have been time, not steps - duh</title>
	<author>oldwarrior</author>
	<datestamp>1259256780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They totally missed the fact that the ants could be measuring time instead of counting steps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They totally missed the fact that the ants could be measuring time instead of counting steps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They totally missed the fact that the ants could be measuring time instead of counting steps.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234450</id>
	<title>"manipulating the leg length"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259265720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds fun!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds fun !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds fun!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236914</id>
	<title>Re:god, that name!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259250600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>you could call it "childfuckometer" as well</i></p><p>That wud b p<b>ae</b>dometer (ignoring the fact that neither ped nor paed mean childfuck.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you could call it " childfuckometer " as wellThat wud b paedometer ( ignoring the fact that neither ped nor paed mean childfuck .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you could call it "childfuckometer" as wellThat wud b paedometer (ignoring the fact that neither ped nor paed mean childfuck.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236418</id>
	<title>How did they give them "shorter" legs?</title>
	<author>gooneybird</author>
	<datestamp>1259246400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Ants with longer legs would pass the nest on the way home, and ones with shorter legs came up... well... short"
<br> <br>
I could understand how one might lengthen legs (e.g. miniature stilts), but how did the scientist shorten their legs? OMG - they cut Kenny's legs off!!!</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Ants with longer legs would pass the nest on the way home , and ones with shorter legs came up... well... short " I could understand how one might lengthen legs ( e.g .
miniature stilts ) , but how did the scientist shorten their legs ?
OMG - they cut Kenny 's legs off ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Ants with longer legs would pass the nest on the way home, and ones with shorter legs came up... well... short"
 
I could understand how one might lengthen legs (e.g.
miniature stilts), but how did the scientist shorten their legs?
OMG - they cut Kenny's legs off!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234846</id>
	<title>Re:I felt a pang...</title>
	<author>4D6963</author>
	<datestamp>1259228280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, except they don't have hands and feet, but exoskeletons. They work a bit differently from us. I'm not sure how you can relate to having your exoskeletal legs shortened.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , except they do n't have hands and feet , but exoskeletons .
They work a bit differently from us .
I 'm not sure how you can relate to having your exoskeletal legs shortened .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, except they don't have hands and feet, but exoskeletons.
They work a bit differently from us.
I'm not sure how you can relate to having your exoskeletal legs shortened.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30235190</id>
	<title>Re:Hex, is that you?</title>
	<author>Gyske</author>
	<datestamp>1259232540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Given that Hex is even in the tags of the article, I'm quite surprised to read so few Hex-comments.
PS Don't know what/who Hex is? <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex\_(Discworld)" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex\_(Discworld)</a> [wikipedia.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that Hex is even in the tags of the article , I 'm quite surprised to read so few Hex-comments .
PS Do n't know what/who Hex is ?
http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex \ _ ( Discworld ) [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given that Hex is even in the tags of the article, I'm quite surprised to read so few Hex-comments.
PS Don't know what/who Hex is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex\_(Discworld) [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234480</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234580</id>
	<title>god, that name!</title>
	<author>AlgorithMan</author>
	<datestamp>1259267280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"pedometer" is an unfortunate pick, I'd say... I know it comes from the latin "pedes" which means "feet", but damn! you could call it "childfuckometer" as well...</htmltext>
<tokenext>" pedometer " is an unfortunate pick , I 'd say... I know it comes from the latin " pedes " which means " feet " , but damn !
you could call it " childfuckometer " as well.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"pedometer" is an unfortunate pick, I'd say... I know it comes from the latin "pedes" which means "feet", but damn!
you could call it "childfuckometer" as well...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30251752</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259333880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not sure how the scientists are so certain that the ants are counting their steps as opposed to simply having a very precise sense of time passing. If they walk at a steady pace, then having a good sense of time passing on their journey would have resulted in the same findings in this experiment...no? Am I missing something? It would seem possible to distinguish between these two possibilities in future research. Maybe I need to read the article.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure how the scientists are so certain that the ants are counting their steps as opposed to simply having a very precise sense of time passing .
If they walk at a steady pace , then having a good sense of time passing on their journey would have resulted in the same findings in this experiment...no ?
Am I missing something ?
It would seem possible to distinguish between these two possibilities in future research .
Maybe I need to read the article .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure how the scientists are so certain that the ants are counting their steps as opposed to simply having a very precise sense of time passing.
If they walk at a steady pace, then having a good sense of time passing on their journey would have resulted in the same findings in this experiment...no?
Am I missing something?
It would seem possible to distinguish between these two possibilities in future research.
Maybe I need to read the article.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30235856</id>
	<title>Old news is old</title>
	<author>RichiH</author>
	<datestamp>1259239740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Might not be relevant to the topic at hand per se, but this is \_old\_ news. I saw this several years ago...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Might not be relevant to the topic at hand per se , but this is \ _old \ _ news .
I saw this several years ago.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Might not be relevant to the topic at hand per se, but this is \_old\_ news.
I saw this several years ago...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234682</id>
	<title>Homing in</title>
	<author>foobsr</author>
	<datestamp>1259268780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>TFA: <i>"Gould says it's pretty clear ants don't have maps in their heads and don't recognize markers along the route."</i>
<br> <br>
Quote: "Celestial cues, such as the sun or patterns of polarized sky light, appear to have no detectable effect in the precise homing orientation of foragers of Paltothyreus tarsatus. Field and laboratory experiments reveal that canopy patterns are a major influence in the home range orientation of this ponerine ant, a common species in African forests. Canopy orientation appears to be well suited to the restrictive lighting conditions of tropical forests."
<br> <br>
<a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/210/4465/86" title="sciencemag.org">c.f.</a> [sciencemag.org]  Canopy Orientation: A New Kind of Orientation in Ants; BERT H&#214;LLDOBLER, 1980
<br> <br>
Quote: "Cataglyphis bicolor, an ant widely distributed in North Africa and the Near East, orient to the sun as well as to visual patterns of the environment. These two mechanisms can be separated. Foraging ants (hunters) orient to terrestrial cues as long as possible, and only after these have become ineffective do they switch over to the menotactical sun orientation. In the digging individuals, however, the visual knowledge of locality is significantly inferior to that of the hunters. Diggers vary considerably in size, but hunters belong to the largest size group. In addition, the largest and smallest individuals orient differently toward black and white areas and stripe patterns."<br> <br>
<a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/164/3876/192?maxtoshow=&amp;HITS=10&amp;hits=10&amp;RESULTFORMAT=&amp;fulltext=Cataglyphis+fortis&amp;searchid=1&amp;FIRSTINDEX=0&amp;resourcetype=HWCIT" title="sciencemag.org">c.f.</a> [sciencemag.org] Homing in the Ant Cataglyphis bicolor;
Rudiger Wehner  and Randolf Menzel, 1969<br> <br>
How to become an expert 'in ants' these days?
<br> <br>
CC.</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>TFA : " Gould says it 's pretty clear ants do n't have maps in their heads and do n't recognize markers along the route .
" Quote : " Celestial cues , such as the sun or patterns of polarized sky light , appear to have no detectable effect in the precise homing orientation of foragers of Paltothyreus tarsatus .
Field and laboratory experiments reveal that canopy patterns are a major influence in the home range orientation of this ponerine ant , a common species in African forests .
Canopy orientation appears to be well suited to the restrictive lighting conditions of tropical forests .
" c.f .
[ sciencemag.org ] Canopy Orientation : A New Kind of Orientation in Ants ; BERT H   LLDOBLER , 1980 Quote : " Cataglyphis bicolor , an ant widely distributed in North Africa and the Near East , orient to the sun as well as to visual patterns of the environment .
These two mechanisms can be separated .
Foraging ants ( hunters ) orient to terrestrial cues as long as possible , and only after these have become ineffective do they switch over to the menotactical sun orientation .
In the digging individuals , however , the visual knowledge of locality is significantly inferior to that of the hunters .
Diggers vary considerably in size , but hunters belong to the largest size group .
In addition , the largest and smallest individuals orient differently toward black and white areas and stripe patterns .
" c.f .
[ sciencemag.org ] Homing in the Ant Cataglyphis bicolor ; Rudiger Wehner and Randolf Menzel , 1969 How to become an expert 'in ants ' these days ?
CC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TFA: "Gould says it's pretty clear ants don't have maps in their heads and don't recognize markers along the route.
"
 
Quote: "Celestial cues, such as the sun or patterns of polarized sky light, appear to have no detectable effect in the precise homing orientation of foragers of Paltothyreus tarsatus.
Field and laboratory experiments reveal that canopy patterns are a major influence in the home range orientation of this ponerine ant, a common species in African forests.
Canopy orientation appears to be well suited to the restrictive lighting conditions of tropical forests.
"
 
c.f.
[sciencemag.org]  Canopy Orientation: A New Kind of Orientation in Ants; BERT HÖLLDOBLER, 1980
 
Quote: "Cataglyphis bicolor, an ant widely distributed in North Africa and the Near East, orient to the sun as well as to visual patterns of the environment.
These two mechanisms can be separated.
Foraging ants (hunters) orient to terrestrial cues as long as possible, and only after these have become ineffective do they switch over to the menotactical sun orientation.
In the digging individuals, however, the visual knowledge of locality is significantly inferior to that of the hunters.
Diggers vary considerably in size, but hunters belong to the largest size group.
In addition, the largest and smallest individuals orient differently toward black and white areas and stripe patterns.
" 
c.f.
[sciencemag.org] Homing in the Ant Cataglyphis bicolor;
Rudiger Wehner  and Randolf Menzel, 1969 
How to become an expert 'in ants' these days?
CC.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</id>
	<title>This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>ls671</author>
	<datestamp>1257191520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the experience results are valid, there is still a difference between counting and remembering and reproducing a sequence of movements.</p><p>Ants might remember that they have to do "step step step step step step step step" to get back to their nest without actually counting. This would seem much more natural to me.</p><p>Here is an example applicable to humans: As a drummer, I can create and reproduce the same roll on the fly. But if you asked me how many times I hit the drum pad, only then I would have to count. I did not need to count  in order to reproduce the roll nor did I know how many times I actually hit the drum pads.</p><p>This leads me to believe ants cannot count, why would they need to. Counting is good for humans in order to trade, so they have developed that capability. Same goes for female animals that could notice one of their puppy is missing. They don't have to "count" them, they only have to remember a picture of all the puppies and notice the picture they now see is different from the normal picture. There is many more examples you can think off where one can appear to count without actually doing so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the experience results are valid , there is still a difference between counting and remembering and reproducing a sequence of movements.Ants might remember that they have to do " step step step step step step step step " to get back to their nest without actually counting .
This would seem much more natural to me.Here is an example applicable to humans : As a drummer , I can create and reproduce the same roll on the fly .
But if you asked me how many times I hit the drum pad , only then I would have to count .
I did not need to count in order to reproduce the roll nor did I know how many times I actually hit the drum pads.This leads me to believe ants can not count , why would they need to .
Counting is good for humans in order to trade , so they have developed that capability .
Same goes for female animals that could notice one of their puppy is missing .
They do n't have to " count " them , they only have to remember a picture of all the puppies and notice the picture they now see is different from the normal picture .
There is many more examples you can think off where one can appear to count without actually doing so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the experience results are valid, there is still a difference between counting and remembering and reproducing a sequence of movements.Ants might remember that they have to do "step step step step step step step step" to get back to their nest without actually counting.
This would seem much more natural to me.Here is an example applicable to humans: As a drummer, I can create and reproduce the same roll on the fly.
But if you asked me how many times I hit the drum pad, only then I would have to count.
I did not need to count  in order to reproduce the roll nor did I know how many times I actually hit the drum pads.This leads me to believe ants cannot count, why would they need to.
Counting is good for humans in order to trade, so they have developed that capability.
Same goes for female animals that could notice one of their puppy is missing.
They don't have to "count" them, they only have to remember a picture of all the puppies and notice the picture they now see is different from the normal picture.
There is many more examples you can think off where one can appear to count without actually doing so.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234728</id>
	<title>If this means ants can count,</title>
	<author>MrMista\_B</author>
	<datestamp>1259226240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>then so can gears, heartbeats, waves, and anything that is capable of producing a periodic rhythm.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>then so can gears , heartbeats , waves , and anything that is capable of producing a periodic rhythm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>then so can gears, heartbeats, waves, and anything that is capable of producing a periodic rhythm.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30238172</id>
	<title>Hex!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259260200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Finally the wizards at Unseen University can start their work on Hex.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Finally the wizards at Unseen University can start their work on Hex .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Finally the wizards at Unseen University can start their work on Hex.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234874</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>lastgoodnickname</author>
	<datestamp>1259228880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can't beat a drum analogy</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ca n't beat a drum analogy</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can't beat a drum analogy</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234472</id>
	<title>Somebody has to say it...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259265900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Ladies and gentlemen, uh, we've just lost the picture, but what we've seen speaks for itself. The Corvair spacecraft has apparently been taken over, 'conquered' if you will, by a master race of giant counting ants. It's difficult to tell from this vantage point whether they will consume the captive Earthmen or merely enslave them. One thing is for certain: there is no stopping them; the ants will soon be here. And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords. I'd like to remind them as a trusted TV personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ladies and gentlemen , uh , we 've just lost the picture , but what we 've seen speaks for itself .
The Corvair spacecraft has apparently been taken over , 'conquered ' if you will , by a master race of giant counting ants .
It 's difficult to tell from this vantage point whether they will consume the captive Earthmen or merely enslave them .
One thing is for certain : there is no stopping them ; the ants will soon be here .
And I , for one , welcome our new insect overlords .
I 'd like to remind them as a trusted TV personality , I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Ladies and gentlemen, uh, we've just lost the picture, but what we've seen speaks for itself.
The Corvair spacecraft has apparently been taken over, 'conquered' if you will, by a master race of giant counting ants.
It's difficult to tell from this vantage point whether they will consume the captive Earthmen or merely enslave them.
One thing is for certain: there is no stopping them; the ants will soon be here.
And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords.
I'd like to remind them as a trusted TV personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234704</id>
	<title>Re:Experimental set-up raises a few questions</title>
	<author>ebuck</author>
	<datestamp>1259268900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, that might be a good explanation for the reason the short legged ants failed to arrive home.  However, it doesn't explain why the artificially leg lengthened ants overshot their nest.  I mean, if it were you or me, we would have seen our home and stopped, so the ants must really heavily rely on step counting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , that might be a good explanation for the reason the short legged ants failed to arrive home .
However , it does n't explain why the artificially leg lengthened ants overshot their nest .
I mean , if it were you or me , we would have seen our home and stopped , so the ants must really heavily rely on step counting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, that might be a good explanation for the reason the short legged ants failed to arrive home.
However, it doesn't explain why the artificially leg lengthened ants overshot their nest.
I mean, if it were you or me, we would have seen our home and stopped, so the ants must really heavily rely on step counting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234540</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236062</id>
	<title>Re:god, that name!</title>
	<author>smoker2</author>
	<datestamp>1259242740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's why we spell it paedophile, and not fall into the lazy practice of spelling things the way they sound, which often results in conflicting definitions for similar words. And it's not even the same sounding word. Pedometer is pronounced ped-(rhymes with bed)-oh-meter. When you ride a bicycle, do you pedal or do you peedal ? And I think that pedes is latin, hence stampede, impede, millipede etc, whereas pod is greek, giving us arthropod, bipod, tripod, podiatrics. Paedo is greek for child, not feet, and is not confusing even if you switch ancient classical languages.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's why we spell it paedophile , and not fall into the lazy practice of spelling things the way they sound , which often results in conflicting definitions for similar words .
And it 's not even the same sounding word .
Pedometer is pronounced ped- ( rhymes with bed ) -oh-meter .
When you ride a bicycle , do you pedal or do you peedal ?
And I think that pedes is latin , hence stampede , impede , millipede etc , whereas pod is greek , giving us arthropod , bipod , tripod , podiatrics .
Paedo is greek for child , not feet , and is not confusing even if you switch ancient classical languages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's why we spell it paedophile, and not fall into the lazy practice of spelling things the way they sound, which often results in conflicting definitions for similar words.
And it's not even the same sounding word.
Pedometer is pronounced ped-(rhymes with bed)-oh-meter.
When you ride a bicycle, do you pedal or do you peedal ?
And I think that pedes is latin, hence stampede, impede, millipede etc, whereas pod is greek, giving us arthropod, bipod, tripod, podiatrics.
Paedo is greek for child, not feet, and is not confusing even if you switch ancient classical languages.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234662</id>
	<title>Does it mean..?</title>
	<author>roman\_mir</author>
	<datestamp>1259268420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But does it mean that they can sort tiny screws in space?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But does it mean that they can sort tiny screws in space ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But does it mean that they can sort tiny screws in space?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234540</id>
	<title>Experimental set-up raises a few questions</title>
	<author>jamax</author>
	<datestamp>1259266800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not being too serious here, but, even though these are just ants, wouldn't it be wrong to assume that I didn't arrive home with my legs cut off beneath the knee because of the resulting leg length?</p><p>I mean even though ants a just insects they are really complex mechanisms and there might be some form of damage reaction other than shorter steps after a partial limb loss - like general weakness and reduced desire to go anywhere at all?</p><p>Still, desert-roaming ants on stilts (I'm guessing that's how they've increased leg length) sound very much like new overlords we should better bow to ASAP..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not being too serious here , but , even though these are just ants , would n't it be wrong to assume that I did n't arrive home with my legs cut off beneath the knee because of the resulting leg length ? I mean even though ants a just insects they are really complex mechanisms and there might be some form of damage reaction other than shorter steps after a partial limb loss - like general weakness and reduced desire to go anywhere at all ? Still , desert-roaming ants on stilts ( I 'm guessing that 's how they 've increased leg length ) sound very much like new overlords we should better bow to ASAP. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not being too serious here, but, even though these are just ants, wouldn't it be wrong to assume that I didn't arrive home with my legs cut off beneath the knee because of the resulting leg length?I mean even though ants a just insects they are really complex mechanisms and there might be some form of damage reaction other than shorter steps after a partial limb loss - like general weakness and reduced desire to go anywhere at all?Still, desert-roaming ants on stilts (I'm guessing that's how they've increased leg length) sound very much like new overlords we should better bow to ASAP..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234956</id>
	<title>Very old news</title>
	<author>etnoy</author>
	<datestamp>1259229840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Uh, I remember reading about this over <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9436-ants-use-pedometers-to-find-home.html" title="newscientist.com" rel="nofollow">three years ago</a> [newscientist.com]. Come on, Slashdot! Give me some news instead!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Uh , I remember reading about this over three years ago [ newscientist.com ] .
Come on , Slashdot !
Give me some news instead !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uh, I remember reading about this over three years ago [newscientist.com].
Come on, Slashdot!
Give me some news instead!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30237374</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259253840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Another theory, that seems equally good to me, is that ants have a good sense of time.  They know how long it took to get from the nest to Point A.  When they turn around and return, it should take the same amount of time to return.  Short-legged ants would cover less ground in the same amount of time and fall short.  Long-legged ants would cover more ground and pass the nest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Another theory , that seems equally good to me , is that ants have a good sense of time .
They know how long it took to get from the nest to Point A. When they turn around and return , it should take the same amount of time to return .
Short-legged ants would cover less ground in the same amount of time and fall short .
Long-legged ants would cover more ground and pass the nest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another theory, that seems equally good to me, is that ants have a good sense of time.
They know how long it took to get from the nest to Point A.  When they turn around and return, it should take the same amount of time to return.
Short-legged ants would cover less ground in the same amount of time and fall short.
Long-legged ants would cover more ground and pass the nest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30235054</id>
	<title>I can count.</title>
	<author>antdude</author>
	<datestamp>1259231040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10/A, 11/B, 12/C, 13/D, 14/E, 15/F,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10/A , 11/B , 12/C , 13/D , 14/E , 15/F , ... : D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10/A, 11/B, 12/C, 13/D, 14/E, 15/F, ... :D</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236100</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>TropicalCoder</author>
	<datestamp>1259243220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>As a drummer, I can create and reproduce the same roll on the fly. But if you asked me how many times I hit the drum pad, only then I would have to count. I did not need to count in order to reproduce the roll nor did I know how many times I actually hit the drum pads.</p></div></blockquote><p>...and if while you weren't looking somebody switched your drum sticks for another set, longer or shorter than you were using, would you play slower or faster accordingly?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a drummer , I can create and reproduce the same roll on the fly .
But if you asked me how many times I hit the drum pad , only then I would have to count .
I did not need to count in order to reproduce the roll nor did I know how many times I actually hit the drum pads....and if while you were n't looking somebody switched your drum sticks for another set , longer or shorter than you were using , would you play slower or faster accordingly ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a drummer, I can create and reproduce the same roll on the fly.
But if you asked me how many times I hit the drum pad, only then I would have to count.
I did not need to count in order to reproduce the roll nor did I know how many times I actually hit the drum pads....and if while you weren't looking somebody switched your drum sticks for another set, longer or shorter than you were using, would you play slower or faster accordingly?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236522</id>
	<title>Re:Experimental set-up raises a few questions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259247420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>RTFA, after being placed into the nest the next day all ants found their way back home, the conclusion being that this time they travelled both ways using same-height legs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>RTFA , after being placed into the nest the next day all ants found their way back home , the conclusion being that this time they travelled both ways using same-height legs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RTFA, after being placed into the nest the next day all ants found their way back home, the conclusion being that this time they travelled both ways using same-height legs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234540</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30235286</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259233500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>what TFA does not tell, is how the ants will communicate the location of the food source to their little friends.</p><p>I myself have an alternate theory, and that is they can track relative time (maybe with their 'pedometers', counting off seconds) but they also can track the sun and its position in the sky with regards to their nest. Here's a video by sir David Attenborough explaining it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46noJXIrdVg&amp;feature=player\_embedded</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>what TFA does not tell , is how the ants will communicate the location of the food source to their little friends.I myself have an alternate theory , and that is they can track relative time ( maybe with their 'pedometers ' , counting off seconds ) but they also can track the sun and its position in the sky with regards to their nest .
Here 's a video by sir David Attenborough explaining it : http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = 46noJXIrdVg&amp;feature = player \ _embedded</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what TFA does not tell, is how the ants will communicate the location of the food source to their little friends.I myself have an alternate theory, and that is they can track relative time (maybe with their 'pedometers', counting off seconds) but they also can track the sun and its position in the sky with regards to their nest.
Here's a video by sir David Attenborough explaining it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46noJXIrdVg&amp;feature=player\_embedded</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236386</id>
	<title>More Likely Explanation</title>
	<author>DynaSoar</author>
	<datestamp>1259246220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ants carry with them a cognitive map, that is an image of their environment (created from perceived and recalled information) and a self-image (their kinesthetic perception of their self embedded in the environment). They compare their environment with their self image constantly to locate/orient themselves and detect/evaluate potentially positive or negative environmental elements. In that comparison is direction and distance related information with which they can estimate walking time/steps. If either or both cues are changed, the result differs because their estimates based on accumulated information changes slower that real time information based on environment + self. This is a non-conscious process, just as it mostly is in us. It is essentially a dynamic component of the environment capable to actively interaction with the rest of the environment. The cognitive map is a well known mental construct from cognitive psychology, the embedded-in-environment concept is taken from evolutionary psychology. The former could count as support that fact that the suggested mechanism depends on heuristic processing producing the 'fastest good enough' result, often with some error but usually not enough to be totally wrong, as opposed to counting which implies an ongoing real time abstraction compared with a more detailed or accurate perception of the environment which is constantly updated. Besides the implication that self-awareness of some amount may be necessary for this, the cognitive load required for the heuristic process is far less than that of the more accurate real time processing. In the end, ants behave as if they are counting, as do we frequently. Just because we can doesn't mean we always or even usually do, and even if they can't 'think out loud' doesn't mean they can't have and use a process that produces as result as if they can. Lesser creatures can exhibit behaviors that appears as if higher level processing is occurring but which can be explained by the far more acceptable dynamic internal/external environmental processing concept. As an example I recommend Darwin's writings on his observations of the behavior of earth worms.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ants carry with them a cognitive map , that is an image of their environment ( created from perceived and recalled information ) and a self-image ( their kinesthetic perception of their self embedded in the environment ) .
They compare their environment with their self image constantly to locate/orient themselves and detect/evaluate potentially positive or negative environmental elements .
In that comparison is direction and distance related information with which they can estimate walking time/steps .
If either or both cues are changed , the result differs because their estimates based on accumulated information changes slower that real time information based on environment + self .
This is a non-conscious process , just as it mostly is in us .
It is essentially a dynamic component of the environment capable to actively interaction with the rest of the environment .
The cognitive map is a well known mental construct from cognitive psychology , the embedded-in-environment concept is taken from evolutionary psychology .
The former could count as support that fact that the suggested mechanism depends on heuristic processing producing the 'fastest good enough ' result , often with some error but usually not enough to be totally wrong , as opposed to counting which implies an ongoing real time abstraction compared with a more detailed or accurate perception of the environment which is constantly updated .
Besides the implication that self-awareness of some amount may be necessary for this , the cognitive load required for the heuristic process is far less than that of the more accurate real time processing .
In the end , ants behave as if they are counting , as do we frequently .
Just because we can does n't mean we always or even usually do , and even if they ca n't 'think out loud ' does n't mean they ca n't have and use a process that produces as result as if they can .
Lesser creatures can exhibit behaviors that appears as if higher level processing is occurring but which can be explained by the far more acceptable dynamic internal/external environmental processing concept .
As an example I recommend Darwin 's writings on his observations of the behavior of earth worms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ants carry with them a cognitive map, that is an image of their environment (created from perceived and recalled information) and a self-image (their kinesthetic perception of their self embedded in the environment).
They compare their environment with their self image constantly to locate/orient themselves and detect/evaluate potentially positive or negative environmental elements.
In that comparison is direction and distance related information with which they can estimate walking time/steps.
If either or both cues are changed, the result differs because their estimates based on accumulated information changes slower that real time information based on environment + self.
This is a non-conscious process, just as it mostly is in us.
It is essentially a dynamic component of the environment capable to actively interaction with the rest of the environment.
The cognitive map is a well known mental construct from cognitive psychology, the embedded-in-environment concept is taken from evolutionary psychology.
The former could count as support that fact that the suggested mechanism depends on heuristic processing producing the 'fastest good enough' result, often with some error but usually not enough to be totally wrong, as opposed to counting which implies an ongoing real time abstraction compared with a more detailed or accurate perception of the environment which is constantly updated.
Besides the implication that self-awareness of some amount may be necessary for this, the cognitive load required for the heuristic process is far less than that of the more accurate real time processing.
In the end, ants behave as if they are counting, as do we frequently.
Just because we can doesn't mean we always or even usually do, and even if they can't 'think out loud' doesn't mean they can't have and use a process that produces as result as if they can.
Lesser creatures can exhibit behaviors that appears as if higher level processing is occurring but which can be explained by the far more acceptable dynamic internal/external environmental processing concept.
As an example I recommend Darwin's writings on his observations of the behavior of earth worms.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234480</id>
	<title>Hex, is that you?</title>
	<author>mikelieman</author>
	<datestamp>1259265960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>++?????++ Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>+ + ? ? ? ?
? + + Out of Cheese Error .
Redo From Start .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>++????
?++ Out of Cheese Error.
Redo From Start.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236220</id>
	<title>Time not number of steps?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259244600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps they walk out for a certain number of minutes, turn around and then walk back for the same time. The effect would be the same as for counting steps. In particular, if their leg lengths were changed you would expect them to cover more or less distance in the same time (and with the same number of steps). Animals having some concept of the passing of time seems more likely than them being able to count to 10,000 in their heads.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps they walk out for a certain number of minutes , turn around and then walk back for the same time .
The effect would be the same as for counting steps .
In particular , if their leg lengths were changed you would expect them to cover more or less distance in the same time ( and with the same number of steps ) .
Animals having some concept of the passing of time seems more likely than them being able to count to 10,000 in their heads .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps they walk out for a certain number of minutes, turn around and then walk back for the same time.
The effect would be the same as for counting steps.
In particular, if their leg lengths were changed you would expect them to cover more or less distance in the same time (and with the same number of steps).
Animals having some concept of the passing of time seems more likely than them being able to count to 10,000 in their heads.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234494</id>
	<title>Just had to do it.</title>
	<author>Psaakyrn</author>
	<datestamp>1259266200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, it's like changing the tires of a car to a larger or smaller one then miscounting the distance traveled based on rotations?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , it 's like changing the tires of a car to a larger or smaller one then miscounting the distance traveled based on rotations ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, it's like changing the tires of a car to a larger or smaller one then miscounting the distance traveled based on rotations?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30235354</id>
	<title>Re:I can prove you wrong</title>
	<author>LordAndrewSama</author>
	<datestamp>1259234280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>perhaps in an egg-timer like way.  release a chemical at a fixed rate.  then on the way back, release the same amount of chemical at the same rate.</p><p>then travel would also be at a fixed rate.  hmm, they should test by delaying ants somehow, since the rate of travel would change, they would get to the wrong destination at the right time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>perhaps in an egg-timer like way .
release a chemical at a fixed rate .
then on the way back , release the same amount of chemical at the same rate.then travel would also be at a fixed rate .
hmm , they should test by delaying ants somehow , since the rate of travel would change , they would get to the wrong destination at the right time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>perhaps in an egg-timer like way.
release a chemical at a fixed rate.
then on the way back, release the same amount of chemical at the same rate.then travel would also be at a fixed rate.
hmm, they should test by delaying ants somehow, since the rate of travel would change, they would get to the wrong destination at the right time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234730</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234694</id>
	<title>Re:This is oooold news</title>
	<author>thePig</author>
	<datestamp>1259268840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thank you.<br>The comments in the old<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. article are worth a read.<br>Esp.<br><a href="http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=189951&amp;cid=15635693" title="slashdot.org">http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=189951&amp;cid=15635693</a> [slashdot.org]<br><a href="http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=189951&amp;cid=15634139" title="slashdot.org">http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=189951&amp;cid=15634139</a> [slashdot.org]<br><a href="http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=189951&amp;cid=15634257" title="slashdot.org">http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=189951&amp;cid=15634257</a> [slashdot.org]</p><p>Makes an interesting read. Also, good to have a comparison between the average quality of comments from 06 and 09 in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you.The comments in the old / .
article are worth a read.Esp.http : //science.slashdot.org/comments.pl ? sid = 189951&amp;cid = 15635693 [ slashdot.org ] http : //science.slashdot.org/comments.pl ? sid = 189951&amp;cid = 15634139 [ slashdot.org ] http : //science.slashdot.org/comments.pl ? sid = 189951&amp;cid = 15634257 [ slashdot.org ] Makes an interesting read .
Also , good to have a comparison between the average quality of comments from 06 and 09 in / .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you.The comments in the old /.
article are worth a read.Esp.http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=189951&amp;cid=15635693 [slashdot.org]http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=189951&amp;cid=15634139 [slashdot.org]http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=189951&amp;cid=15634257 [slashdot.org]Makes an interesting read.
Also, good to have a comparison between the average quality of comments from 06 and 09 in /.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234726</id>
	<title>True masters of the Earth</title>
	<author>criptic08</author>
	<datestamp>1259226180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>If ants have mastered abstract thinking we're all in deep trouble.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If ants have mastered abstract thinking we 're all in deep trouble .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If ants have mastered abstract thinking we're all in deep trouble.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30242924</id>
	<title>counting or timing?</title>
	<author>JumpSocial</author>
	<datestamp>1259261280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps the ants aren't counting. An individual steps at the same rate of steps per minute and they just time how long they travel.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps the ants are n't counting .
An individual steps at the same rate of steps per minute and they just time how long they travel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps the ants aren't counting.
An individual steps at the same rate of steps per minute and they just time how long they travel.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234670</id>
	<title>Re:god, that name!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259268480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're just being PedAntic</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're just being PedAntic</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're just being PedAntic</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234580</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234660</id>
	<title>Re:I felt a pang...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259268420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Many species of ants have elaborate social structures. Ants communicate with one another through touching, chirping, hearing, feeling, and chemical perception. Some species of ants live solely by enslaving other ant species to do their food gathering for them. Ants farm lesser species such as aphids for their excretions.</p><p>Don't feel too bad.They'd enslave us and use us for our excretions too if they could. If ants weren't so tiny, we would be at war with them, and they'd be pretty badass foes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Many species of ants have elaborate social structures .
Ants communicate with one another through touching , chirping , hearing , feeling , and chemical perception .
Some species of ants live solely by enslaving other ant species to do their food gathering for them .
Ants farm lesser species such as aphids for their excretions.Do n't feel too bad.They 'd enslave us and use us for our excretions too if they could .
If ants were n't so tiny , we would be at war with them , and they 'd be pretty badass foes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many species of ants have elaborate social structures.
Ants communicate with one another through touching, chirping, hearing, feeling, and chemical perception.
Some species of ants live solely by enslaving other ant species to do their food gathering for them.
Ants farm lesser species such as aphids for their excretions.Don't feel too bad.They'd enslave us and use us for our excretions too if they could.
If ants weren't so tiny, we would be at war with them, and they'd be pretty badass foes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30241564</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259245920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Here is an example applicable to humans:</p></div><p>
When I read that part of your message - I had to look up your username, half expecting a new addition to the campaign of BadAnalogyGuy and PizzaAnalogyGuy.
</p><p>
You would have made good HumanAnalogyGuy.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here is an example applicable to humans : When I read that part of your message - I had to look up your username , half expecting a new addition to the campaign of BadAnalogyGuy and PizzaAnalogyGuy .
You would have made good HumanAnalogyGuy .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here is an example applicable to humans:
When I read that part of your message - I had to look up your username, half expecting a new addition to the campaign of BadAnalogyGuy and PizzaAnalogyGuy.
You would have made good HumanAnalogyGuy.
:)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234806</id>
	<title>Re:I felt a pang...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259227620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From TFA (emphasis mine),</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Scientists put <b>stilts</b> on desert ants and discovered that in time, the ants could calculate the correct number of steps it took to get home.</p></div><p>:). TYVM.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From TFA ( emphasis mine ) ,Scientists put stilts on desert ants and discovered that in time , the ants could calculate the correct number of steps it took to get home. : ) .
TYVM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From TFA (emphasis mine),Scientists put stilts on desert ants and discovered that in time, the ants could calculate the correct number of steps it took to get home.:).
TYVM.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234578</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>discbrain</author>
	<datestamp>1259267280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you would have read the article (I didn't read it, but I'm from uulm and am familiar with the corresponding research results) or the referenced research, you would know that all what you stated is obviously taken account for. For example your "they only have to remember a picture of all the puppies and notices the picture"-statement is wrong because of the following experiment:

An ant is taken from its current location and moved to another location some meters away. So the ant has no way to tell where it is located at, but it still runs the straight way "home" (though ending not at the ant colony but somewhere else)...</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you would have read the article ( I did n't read it , but I 'm from uulm and am familiar with the corresponding research results ) or the referenced research , you would know that all what you stated is obviously taken account for .
For example your " they only have to remember a picture of all the puppies and notices the picture " -statement is wrong because of the following experiment : An ant is taken from its current location and moved to another location some meters away .
So the ant has no way to tell where it is located at , but it still runs the straight way " home " ( though ending not at the ant colony but somewhere else ) .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you would have read the article (I didn't read it, but I'm from uulm and am familiar with the corresponding research results) or the referenced research, you would know that all what you stated is obviously taken account for.
For example your "they only have to remember a picture of all the puppies and notices the picture"-statement is wrong because of the following experiment:

An ant is taken from its current location and moved to another location some meters away.
So the ant has no way to tell where it is located at, but it still runs the straight way "home" (though ending not at the ant colony but somewhere else)...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234528</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>njen</author>
	<datestamp>1259266740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But if the number of hits in a roll was dependent on you finding your home safely, then I am pretty sure you would be counting it. The ants are not relying on a random number of steps to find their way home, like in your drum analogy. Plus you can't be certain without counting that if asked to reproduce a roll of the same number of hits that it would be the same number of hits. It seems these ants do rely on walking the exact same number of steps each time.
<br>
This would denote that the ants have memorised a number of steps to take that would allow them to return home again, thus showing that when they have counted a certain number of steps would allow them to know where they are.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But if the number of hits in a roll was dependent on you finding your home safely , then I am pretty sure you would be counting it .
The ants are not relying on a random number of steps to find their way home , like in your drum analogy .
Plus you ca n't be certain without counting that if asked to reproduce a roll of the same number of hits that it would be the same number of hits .
It seems these ants do rely on walking the exact same number of steps each time .
This would denote that the ants have memorised a number of steps to take that would allow them to return home again , thus showing that when they have counted a certain number of steps would allow them to know where they are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But if the number of hits in a roll was dependent on you finding your home safely, then I am pretty sure you would be counting it.
The ants are not relying on a random number of steps to find their way home, like in your drum analogy.
Plus you can't be certain without counting that if asked to reproduce a roll of the same number of hits that it would be the same number of hits.
It seems these ants do rely on walking the exact same number of steps each time.
This would denote that the ants have memorised a number of steps to take that would allow them to return home again, thus showing that when they have counted a certain number of steps would allow them to know where they are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234650</id>
	<title>I wonder...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259268300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How do these scientists at the University of Ulm get to and from their homes when the ants are not counting for them?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How do these scientists at the University of Ulm get to and from their homes when the ants are not counting for them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do these scientists at the University of Ulm get to and from their homes when the ants are not counting for them?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30237008</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>Rary</author>
	<datestamp>1259251260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As a drummer, I can create and reproduce the same roll on the fly. But if you asked me how many times I hit the drum pad, only then I would have to count. I did not need to count in order to reproduce the roll nor did I know how many times I actually hit the drum pads.</p></div><p>If that roll were more than a few seconds long, you would likely have to count. You wouldn't necessarily count the actual individual drum hits, but you would likely count the beats, or the bars, or the seconds, or something.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>This leads me to believe ants cannot count, why would they need to.</p></div><p>Well, maybe to be able to travel great distances and then return to where they came from? Much like the theory suggests they are doing.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Counting is good for humans in order to trade, so they have developed that capability.</p></div><p>You misunderstand evolution. Humans have the capability to count, so they have developed trade utilizing that capability. Similarly, ants (theoretically) have the capability to count their steps, so they have developed the ability to travel far from their homes and then return without having a trail to follow back.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a drummer , I can create and reproduce the same roll on the fly .
But if you asked me how many times I hit the drum pad , only then I would have to count .
I did not need to count in order to reproduce the roll nor did I know how many times I actually hit the drum pads.If that roll were more than a few seconds long , you would likely have to count .
You would n't necessarily count the actual individual drum hits , but you would likely count the beats , or the bars , or the seconds , or something.This leads me to believe ants can not count , why would they need to.Well , maybe to be able to travel great distances and then return to where they came from ?
Much like the theory suggests they are doing.Counting is good for humans in order to trade , so they have developed that capability.You misunderstand evolution .
Humans have the capability to count , so they have developed trade utilizing that capability .
Similarly , ants ( theoretically ) have the capability to count their steps , so they have developed the ability to travel far from their homes and then return without having a trail to follow back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a drummer, I can create and reproduce the same roll on the fly.
But if you asked me how many times I hit the drum pad, only then I would have to count.
I did not need to count in order to reproduce the roll nor did I know how many times I actually hit the drum pads.If that roll were more than a few seconds long, you would likely have to count.
You wouldn't necessarily count the actual individual drum hits, but you would likely count the beats, or the bars, or the seconds, or something.This leads me to believe ants cannot count, why would they need to.Well, maybe to be able to travel great distances and then return to where they came from?
Much like the theory suggests they are doing.Counting is good for humans in order to trade, so they have developed that capability.You misunderstand evolution.
Humans have the capability to count, so they have developed trade utilizing that capability.
Similarly, ants (theoretically) have the capability to count their steps, so they have developed the ability to travel far from their homes and then return without having a trail to follow back.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236122</id>
	<title>Let me guess</title>
	<author>NotSoHeavyD3</author>
	<datestamp>1259243460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Let me guess, the scientists refer to them as "A count ant". (Gets pelted with tomatoes.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Let me guess , the scientists refer to them as " A count ant " .
( Gets pelted with tomatoes .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let me guess, the scientists refer to them as "A count ant".
(Gets pelted with tomatoes.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30237448</id>
	<title>Ummmm...cruel!</title>
	<author>hesaigo999ca</author>
	<datestamp>1259254380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;and the experiment used to test it involves manipulating the leg length of some of these ants<br>The would either use pieces of duck tape to hold the dismembered limbs together after having cut them to make different length legs..<br>or add wood chips to the bottom to increase the length beyond the leg length.</p><p>I would hate to be one of those ants on that day!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; and the experiment used to test it involves manipulating the leg length of some of these antsThe would either use pieces of duck tape to hold the dismembered limbs together after having cut them to make different length legs..or add wood chips to the bottom to increase the length beyond the leg length.I would hate to be one of those ants on that day !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;and the experiment used to test it involves manipulating the leg length of some of these antsThe would either use pieces of duck tape to hold the dismembered limbs together after having cut them to make different length legs..or add wood chips to the bottom to increase the length beyond the leg length.I would hate to be one of those ants on that day!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234756</id>
	<title>Surely..</title>
	<author>mxh83</author>
	<datestamp>1259226540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Surely there's better stuff to discuss than ants on a site like slashdot?  When did this site become animal planet?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Surely there 's better stuff to discuss than ants on a site like slashdot ?
When did this site become animal planet ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surely there's better stuff to discuss than ants on a site like slashdot?
When did this site become animal planet?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234492</id>
	<title>that accounts for distance...</title>
	<author>gandhi\_2</author>
	<datestamp>1259266140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>but not direction. Like doing "dead reckoning" with pace but no azimuth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>but not direction .
Like doing " dead reckoning " with pace but no azimuth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but not direction.
Like doing "dead reckoning" with pace but no azimuth.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234730</id>
	<title>I can prove you wrong</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259226240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cause wouldn't a built in clock in the ant produce the same result.<br>They would talk for a specific amount of time, then stop.</p><p>If I can come up with an other explanation so easy, how can they say ants can count?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cause would n't a built in clock in the ant produce the same result.They would talk for a specific amount of time , then stop.If I can come up with an other explanation so easy , how can they say ants can count ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cause wouldn't a built in clock in the ant produce the same result.They would talk for a specific amount of time, then stop.If I can come up with an other explanation so easy, how can they say ants can count?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234576</id>
	<title>Re:I felt a pang...</title>
	<author>MarkRose</author>
	<datestamp>1259267280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'll, too, admit that the thought of having my limbs chopped makes me a bit antsy...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll , too , admit that the thought of having my limbs chopped makes me a bit antsy.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll, too, admit that the thought of having my limbs chopped makes me a bit antsy...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30237006</id>
	<title>Memory</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259251260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Joe Ant: "One hundred seventy four thousand eight hundred and three"<br>
Joe Ant: "One hundred seventy four thousand eight hundred and four"<br>
Joe Ant: "One hundred seventy four thousand eight hundred and five"<br> <br>
Sid Ant: "Hey Joe, what's up?"<br>
Joe Ant: "Oh, you know. Not much- just looking for grub for the Queen."<br>
Sid Ant: "Hey man, have you seen here recently?  She's lookin' hot!"<br>
Joe Ant: "Heh, yea sure Sid. You're a worker ant. You don't have a chance."<br>
Sid Ant: "Yea... I know. But I can dream... Anywho, I gotta head back to the hill.  Smell 'ya later."<br>
Joe Ant: "Later bud."<br> <br>
Joe Ant: "One hundred eighty- no- seventy eight thousand... no- eighty thousand seven hundred... no- one hundred seventy thousand... fuck."<br> <br>


Shamelessly inspired by this <a href="http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=189951&amp;cid=15637185" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">old post</a> [slashdot.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Joe Ant : " One hundred seventy four thousand eight hundred and three " Joe Ant : " One hundred seventy four thousand eight hundred and four " Joe Ant : " One hundred seventy four thousand eight hundred and five " Sid Ant : " Hey Joe , what 's up ?
" Joe Ant : " Oh , you know .
Not much- just looking for grub for the Queen .
" Sid Ant : " Hey man , have you seen here recently ?
She 's lookin ' hot !
" Joe Ant : " Heh , yea sure Sid .
You 're a worker ant .
You do n't have a chance .
" Sid Ant : " Yea... I know .
But I can dream... Anywho , I got ta head back to the hill .
Smell 'ya later .
" Joe Ant : " Later bud .
" Joe Ant : " One hundred eighty- no- seventy eight thousand... no- eighty thousand seven hundred... no- one hundred seventy thousand.. .
fuck. " Shamelessly inspired by this old post [ slashdot.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Joe Ant: "One hundred seventy four thousand eight hundred and three"
Joe Ant: "One hundred seventy four thousand eight hundred and four"
Joe Ant: "One hundred seventy four thousand eight hundred and five" 
Sid Ant: "Hey Joe, what's up?
"
Joe Ant: "Oh, you know.
Not much- just looking for grub for the Queen.
"
Sid Ant: "Hey man, have you seen here recently?
She's lookin' hot!
"
Joe Ant: "Heh, yea sure Sid.
You're a worker ant.
You don't have a chance.
"
Sid Ant: "Yea... I know.
But I can dream... Anywho, I gotta head back to the hill.
Smell 'ya later.
"
Joe Ant: "Later bud.
" 
Joe Ant: "One hundred eighty- no- seventy eight thousand... no- eighty thousand seven hundred... no- one hundred seventy thousand...
fuck." 


Shamelessly inspired by this old post [slashdot.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236410</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>soapdog</author>
	<datestamp>1259246340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>so I infer that in Ant School they learn to count and when they become workers/warriors/whatever they start doing it at an unconscious level....</htmltext>
<tokenext>so I infer that in Ant School they learn to count and when they become workers/warriors/whatever they start doing it at an unconscious level... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so I infer that in Ant School they learn to count and when they become workers/warriors/whatever they start doing it at an unconscious level....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234544</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234488</id>
	<title>pedometer...?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259266080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>really? pedometer?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>really ?
pedometer ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>really?
pedometer?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30235420</id>
	<title>Re:This is oooold news</title>
	<author>JaredOfEuropa</author>
	<datestamp>1259235060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can do better than that, I remember reading about counting ants and similar experiments in a popular science magazine when I was a kid.  Sorry, no link, as the article <i>predates the Internet</i>...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can do better than that , I remember reading about counting ants and similar experiments in a popular science magazine when I was a kid .
Sorry , no link , as the article predates the Internet.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can do better than that, I remember reading about counting ants and similar experiments in a popular science magazine when I was a kid.
Sorry, no link, as the article predates the Internet...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30239208</id>
	<title>Not just old, wrong too</title>
	<author>Nigel Stepp</author>
	<datestamp>1259268660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not only is this result super old, but the conclusion has also been invalidated for quite some time. Changing the structure of the ants' legs can change their ability to integrate distance in many ways. The pedometer hypothesis is but one explanation.</p><p>That explanation does not hold up when considered with other results, such as testing ants leaving and coming back over different terrains. If ants are counting steps, then hilly vs. flat terrain will cause problems (since hilly terrains require more steps than flat). Ants deal with this just fine, however. Here is one of many references showing this:</p><p>Grah, G., Wehner, R. and Ronacher, B. (2005). Path integration in a three-dimensional maze: ground distance estimation keeps desert ants Cataglyphis fortis on course. J. Exp. Biol. 208,4005 -4011.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not only is this result super old , but the conclusion has also been invalidated for quite some time .
Changing the structure of the ants ' legs can change their ability to integrate distance in many ways .
The pedometer hypothesis is but one explanation.That explanation does not hold up when considered with other results , such as testing ants leaving and coming back over different terrains .
If ants are counting steps , then hilly vs. flat terrain will cause problems ( since hilly terrains require more steps than flat ) .
Ants deal with this just fine , however .
Here is one of many references showing this : Grah , G. , Wehner , R. and Ronacher , B .
( 2005 ) . Path integration in a three-dimensional maze : ground distance estimation keeps desert ants Cataglyphis fortis on course .
J. Exp .
Biol. 208,4005 -4011 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not only is this result super old, but the conclusion has also been invalidated for quite some time.
Changing the structure of the ants' legs can change their ability to integrate distance in many ways.
The pedometer hypothesis is but one explanation.That explanation does not hold up when considered with other results, such as testing ants leaving and coming back over different terrains.
If ants are counting steps, then hilly vs. flat terrain will cause problems (since hilly terrains require more steps than flat).
Ants deal with this just fine, however.
Here is one of many references showing this:Grah, G., Wehner, R. and Ronacher, B.
(2005). Path integration in a three-dimensional maze: ground distance estimation keeps desert ants Cataglyphis fortis on course.
J. Exp.
Biol. 208,4005 -4011.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236588</id>
	<title>Re:This is oooold news</title>
	<author>red crab</author>
	<datestamp>1259248020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Thanks for pointing this out. The first thought that appeared to me after i read this story was that hasn't this already been  discussed on Slashdot some time ago?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks for pointing this out .
The first thought that appeared to me after i read this story was that has n't this already been discussed on Slashdot some time ago ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks for pointing this out.
The first thought that appeared to me after i read this story was that hasn't this already been  discussed on Slashdot some time ago?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234464</id>
	<title>I felt a pang...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259265840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>couldn't help imagining what it would be like for one of the ants that had it's legs cut off, was made to walk home across the desert on it's stumps and then was totally bewildered as to where it's home had gone.

I know they're just ants, but damn that's sad.</htmltext>
<tokenext>could n't help imagining what it would be like for one of the ants that had it 's legs cut off , was made to walk home across the desert on it 's stumps and then was totally bewildered as to where it 's home had gone .
I know they 're just ants , but damn that 's sad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>couldn't help imagining what it would be like for one of the ants that had it's legs cut off, was made to walk home across the desert on it's stumps and then was totally bewildered as to where it's home had gone.
I know they're just ants, but damn that's sad.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30237310</id>
	<title>Automated Alice</title>
	<author>BeardedChimp</author>
	<datestamp>1259253420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This reminds me of the book by Jeff Noon.

In it Alice (of Alice in wonderland fame) travels to an alternate reality in which she has shrunk to the same size as some termites.<br>

The termites are running around frantically while she follows. It turns out she was caught in a mathematical calculation where the termites movements could be used to solve complex problems.
<br>
Quite fun really, I recommend Vurt if you want an introduction to Jeff Noon.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This reminds me of the book by Jeff Noon .
In it Alice ( of Alice in wonderland fame ) travels to an alternate reality in which she has shrunk to the same size as some termites .
The termites are running around frantically while she follows .
It turns out she was caught in a mathematical calculation where the termites movements could be used to solve complex problems .
Quite fun really , I recommend Vurt if you want an introduction to Jeff Noon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This reminds me of the book by Jeff Noon.
In it Alice (of Alice in wonderland fame) travels to an alternate reality in which she has shrunk to the same size as some termites.
The termites are running around frantically while she follows.
It turns out she was caught in a mathematical calculation where the termites movements could be used to solve complex problems.
Quite fun really, I recommend Vurt if you want an introduction to Jeff Noon.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236564</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>The Yuckinator</author>
	<datestamp>1259247780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just knew it.  The drummer isn't counting. They always say that they're counting but here's the proof!</p><p>How can you tell a drummer's at the door?<br>The knocking speeds up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just knew it .
The drummer is n't counting .
They always say that they 're counting but here 's the proof ! How can you tell a drummer 's at the door ? The knocking speeds up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just knew it.
The drummer isn't counting.
They always say that they're counting but here's the proof!How can you tell a drummer's at the door?The knocking speeds up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234612</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>ebuck</author>
	<datestamp>1259267760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Math isn't just about a bunch of numbers.  Push down automata can count (I know, it's incredible! Even more so considering they have no fingers)  The program as I heard it basically described a behaviour which could easily be simulated via a push down automata.</p><p>As a drummer, you might be so accustomed to a particular rhythm that you don't count it out in the literal sense of counting out loud, but you do put eight strikes into a measure.  Whether you acknowledge that as counting or not, it is still counting, it is just counting that you have become so accustomed to that you don't consider it counting because you need to reframe it in a different context before you can acknowledge to yourself that you are counting.</p><p>Rather than using your own logic to falsify the scientist's hypothesis, perhaps you should have listened to the details of the experiment and observed the results.  You might have found a superior but alternate explanation, in which case you would have expanded the realm of possibilities a bit.  You might even be able to suggest a follow up experiment to differentiate between the counting hypothesis and your alternative to determine which is more correct.</p><p>I take it that you haven't done much with functional programming languages, as there are often certain types of problems that are more easily solved in functional languages by counting in the manner of "one one one one one" (as five) than by actually storing a five.</p><p>And while I'm at it, trade doesn't require counting.  Bartering might involve counting, or it might simply be a swap of my fishtank for your LP collection.  However, the idea that we knew counting would be good for trade so we developed counting is a cunning bit of mental gymnastics; it's the mental equivalent of putting the cart before the horse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Math is n't just about a bunch of numbers .
Push down automata can count ( I know , it 's incredible !
Even more so considering they have no fingers ) The program as I heard it basically described a behaviour which could easily be simulated via a push down automata.As a drummer , you might be so accustomed to a particular rhythm that you do n't count it out in the literal sense of counting out loud , but you do put eight strikes into a measure .
Whether you acknowledge that as counting or not , it is still counting , it is just counting that you have become so accustomed to that you do n't consider it counting because you need to reframe it in a different context before you can acknowledge to yourself that you are counting.Rather than using your own logic to falsify the scientist 's hypothesis , perhaps you should have listened to the details of the experiment and observed the results .
You might have found a superior but alternate explanation , in which case you would have expanded the realm of possibilities a bit .
You might even be able to suggest a follow up experiment to differentiate between the counting hypothesis and your alternative to determine which is more correct.I take it that you have n't done much with functional programming languages , as there are often certain types of problems that are more easily solved in functional languages by counting in the manner of " one one one one one " ( as five ) than by actually storing a five.And while I 'm at it , trade does n't require counting .
Bartering might involve counting , or it might simply be a swap of my fishtank for your LP collection .
However , the idea that we knew counting would be good for trade so we developed counting is a cunning bit of mental gymnastics ; it 's the mental equivalent of putting the cart before the horse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Math isn't just about a bunch of numbers.
Push down automata can count (I know, it's incredible!
Even more so considering they have no fingers)  The program as I heard it basically described a behaviour which could easily be simulated via a push down automata.As a drummer, you might be so accustomed to a particular rhythm that you don't count it out in the literal sense of counting out loud, but you do put eight strikes into a measure.
Whether you acknowledge that as counting or not, it is still counting, it is just counting that you have become so accustomed to that you don't consider it counting because you need to reframe it in a different context before you can acknowledge to yourself that you are counting.Rather than using your own logic to falsify the scientist's hypothesis, perhaps you should have listened to the details of the experiment and observed the results.
You might have found a superior but alternate explanation, in which case you would have expanded the realm of possibilities a bit.
You might even be able to suggest a follow up experiment to differentiate between the counting hypothesis and your alternative to determine which is more correct.I take it that you haven't done much with functional programming languages, as there are often certain types of problems that are more easily solved in functional languages by counting in the manner of "one one one one one" (as five) than by actually storing a five.And while I'm at it, trade doesn't require counting.
Bartering might involve counting, or it might simply be a swap of my fishtank for your LP collection.
However, the idea that we knew counting would be good for trade so we developed counting is a cunning bit of mental gymnastics; it's the mental equivalent of putting the cart before the horse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236442</id>
	<title>Re:I heard one of the ants in the experiment speak</title>
	<author>dzfoo</author>
	<datestamp>1259246580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's what <i>she</i> said!</p><p>Har! Har!<br>Oh...</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -dZ.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's what she said ! Har !
Har ! Oh.. .       -dZ .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's what she said!Har!
Har!Oh...
      -dZ.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234552</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30235842</id>
	<title>Srsly, cutting the legs?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259239620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they cut their legs, wouldn't it be more logical to assume, that the ants stopped cause of pain? Maybe the ants thought: aww shit, i'm crippled, lets die here out in the middle of the desert.</p><p>Maybe they feared that their comrades killed them anyway, if they came back with disabled legs?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they cut their legs , would n't it be more logical to assume , that the ants stopped cause of pain ?
Maybe the ants thought : aww shit , i 'm crippled , lets die here out in the middle of the desert.Maybe they feared that their comrades killed them anyway , if they came back with disabled legs ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they cut their legs, wouldn't it be more logical to assume, that the ants stopped cause of pain?
Maybe the ants thought: aww shit, i'm crippled, lets die here out in the middle of the desert.Maybe they feared that their comrades killed them anyway, if they came back with disabled legs?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234606</id>
	<title>Sounds like frogs ...</title>
	<author>dltaylor</author>
	<datestamp>1259267580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To determine how what proportion each leg contributed to a frog's jumping distance, a scientist trained a frog to jump on command.  He then measured the distance with all legs, and remeasured after successively removing one leg at a time.</p><p>His conclusion: that since the frog, with all legs removed, did not jump after hearing the command, that the frog was now deaf.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To determine how what proportion each leg contributed to a frog 's jumping distance , a scientist trained a frog to jump on command .
He then measured the distance with all legs , and remeasured after successively removing one leg at a time.His conclusion : that since the frog , with all legs removed , did not jump after hearing the command , that the frog was now deaf .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To determine how what proportion each leg contributed to a frog's jumping distance, a scientist trained a frog to jump on command.
He then measured the distance with all legs, and remeasured after successively removing one leg at a time.His conclusion: that since the frog, with all legs removed, did not jump after hearing the command, that the frog was now deaf.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234550</id>
	<title>Re:I felt a pang...</title>
	<author>Korbeau</author>
	<datestamp>1259266920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Few ants escape the great finger of God, they should be grateful to get off with only a few scratches!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Few ants escape the great finger of God , they should be grateful to get off with only a few scratches !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Few ants escape the great finger of God, they should be grateful to get off with only a few scratches!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30238036</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259259060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Counting" was used as a shortcut meaning "remembering and recognizing the number of steps they take". It certainly doesn't mean going "one, two, three,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... one-million-six-hundred-twenty-one-thousand-seven-hundred-fifty-three! I'm home, yay!" on their head.</p><p>Remembering and recognizing a number of anything is still pretty close to counting, wouldn't you say? Especially since the number in question can be the equivalent of exactly 1,621,753 hits to your drum. I'd really love to see you do that exact number of hits without counting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Counting " was used as a shortcut meaning " remembering and recognizing the number of steps they take " .
It certainly does n't mean going " one , two , three , ... one-million-six-hundred-twenty-one-thousand-seven-hundred-fifty-three ! I 'm home , yay !
" on their head.Remembering and recognizing a number of anything is still pretty close to counting , would n't you say ?
Especially since the number in question can be the equivalent of exactly 1,621,753 hits to your drum .
I 'd really love to see you do that exact number of hits without counting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Counting" was used as a shortcut meaning "remembering and recognizing the number of steps they take".
It certainly doesn't mean going "one, two, three, ... one-million-six-hundred-twenty-one-thousand-seven-hundred-fifty-three! I'm home, yay!
" on their head.Remembering and recognizing a number of anything is still pretty close to counting, wouldn't you say?
Especially since the number in question can be the equivalent of exactly 1,621,753 hits to your drum.
I'd really love to see you do that exact number of hits without counting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30328932</id>
	<title>Lovely unfounded conclusions...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259921460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Couldn't these ants have a notion of *time* instead?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Could n't these ants have a notion of * time * instead ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Couldn't these ants have a notion of *time* instead?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234544</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>MartinSchou</author>
	<datestamp>1259266920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>As a drummer, I can create and reproduce the same roll on the fly. But if you asked me how many times I hit the drum pad, only then I would have to count</p></div></blockquote><p>Been quite a while since I played drums, but I still remember having to learn how to reproduce certain sequences, and that involved counting the number of repetitions.</p><p>I can't remember what it's called but the one where you emphasise every third hit (i.e. HIT, hit, hit, HIT, hit, hit etc) came quite fast, and I can still do that one without even trying (including alternating between 2nd, 3rd and 4th). The one that has every fifth hit (HIT, hit, hit, hit, hit, HIT, hit, hit, hit, hit) is one I never got the hang of, and I remember spending a LOT of time trying to burn it into my muscle memory.</p><p>But the 3rd one, while easy, still required learning by counting "ONE, two, three, ONE, two, three" for quite a while.</p><p>My point is, when you get really really good at something, like drumming, you don't count at a concious level, but in order to get that good, you did need to count.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a drummer , I can create and reproduce the same roll on the fly .
But if you asked me how many times I hit the drum pad , only then I would have to countBeen quite a while since I played drums , but I still remember having to learn how to reproduce certain sequences , and that involved counting the number of repetitions.I ca n't remember what it 's called but the one where you emphasise every third hit ( i.e .
HIT , hit , hit , HIT , hit , hit etc ) came quite fast , and I can still do that one without even trying ( including alternating between 2nd , 3rd and 4th ) .
The one that has every fifth hit ( HIT , hit , hit , hit , hit , HIT , hit , hit , hit , hit ) is one I never got the hang of , and I remember spending a LOT of time trying to burn it into my muscle memory.But the 3rd one , while easy , still required learning by counting " ONE , two , three , ONE , two , three " for quite a while.My point is , when you get really really good at something , like drumming , you do n't count at a concious level , but in order to get that good , you did need to count .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a drummer, I can create and reproduce the same roll on the fly.
But if you asked me how many times I hit the drum pad, only then I would have to countBeen quite a while since I played drums, but I still remember having to learn how to reproduce certain sequences, and that involved counting the number of repetitions.I can't remember what it's called but the one where you emphasise every third hit (i.e.
HIT, hit, hit, HIT, hit, hit etc) came quite fast, and I can still do that one without even trying (including alternating between 2nd, 3rd and 4th).
The one that has every fifth hit (HIT, hit, hit, hit, hit, HIT, hit, hit, hit, hit) is one I never got the hang of, and I remember spending a LOT of time trying to burn it into my muscle memory.But the 3rd one, while easy, still required learning by counting "ONE, two, three, ONE, two, three" for quite a while.My point is, when you get really really good at something, like drumming, you don't count at a concious level, but in order to get that good, you did need to count.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234830</id>
	<title>Phase IV</title>
	<author>julesh</author>
	<datestamp>1259228040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For anyone wondering why this story is tagged <a href="http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0070531/" title="imdb.com">phaseiv</a> [imdb.com]...</p><p>I thought it was pretty cool, because AFAI knew I was the only person who remembered this film.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For anyone wondering why this story is tagged phaseiv [ imdb.com ] ...I thought it was pretty cool , because AFAI knew I was the only person who remembered this film .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For anyone wondering why this story is tagged phaseiv [imdb.com]...I thought it was pretty cool, because AFAI knew I was the only person who remembered this film.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234994</id>
	<title>Re:I felt a pang...</title>
	<author>VShael</author>
	<datestamp>1259230260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know what you mean.<br>My first thought reading through the post, was "Oh, maybe they put a sort of treadmill en-route to make the number of steps less than the required amount to reach home" and then I got to the "pull the legs off bit".</p><p>I guess I don't have the amorality in me, to make it as a real scientist.</p><p>What happened to giants of the community like Feynmann, and the way he treated <a href="http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath320/kmath320.htm" title="mathpages.com">his ants</a> [mathpages.com]?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know what you mean.My first thought reading through the post , was " Oh , maybe they put a sort of treadmill en-route to make the number of steps less than the required amount to reach home " and then I got to the " pull the legs off bit " .I guess I do n't have the amorality in me , to make it as a real scientist.What happened to giants of the community like Feynmann , and the way he treated his ants [ mathpages.com ] ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know what you mean.My first thought reading through the post, was "Oh, maybe they put a sort of treadmill en-route to make the number of steps less than the required amount to reach home" and then I got to the "pull the legs off bit".I guess I don't have the amorality in me, to make it as a real scientist.What happened to giants of the community like Feynmann, and the way he treated his ants [mathpages.com]?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234520</id>
	<title>So did I :(</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259266620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Especially when you think how similar to us ants really are. I mean, when I read:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>ants squeeze certain glands that leave a chemical trail</p></div><p>I went "I can do that too!"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Especially when you think how similar to us ants really are .
I mean , when I read : ants squeeze certain glands that leave a chemical trailI went " I can do that too !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Especially when you think how similar to us ants really are.
I mean, when I read:ants squeeze certain glands that leave a chemical trailI went "I can do that too!
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234464</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30236092</id>
	<title>Re:that accounts for distance...</title>
	<author>molecular</author>
	<datestamp>1259243160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>TA says: "It's already known that ants use celestial clues to establish the general direction home".<br>(assuming by azimuth you mean direction)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>TA says : " It 's already known that ants use celestial clues to establish the general direction home " .
( assuming by azimuth you mean direction )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TA says: "It's already known that ants use celestial clues to establish the general direction home".
(assuming by azimuth you mean direction)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234492</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234824</id>
	<title>Re:This doesn't prove ants can count</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259227980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>in before "accidentally the whole $something"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>in before " accidentally the whole $ something "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>in before "accidentally the whole $something"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234626</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234984</id>
	<title>Re:Hex, is that you?</title>
	<author>JerryQ</author>
	<datestamp>1259230200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Anthill inside</htmltext>
<tokenext>Anthill inside</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anthill inside</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234480</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
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http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_26_036230.30234806
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