<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_25_1458202</id>
	<title>Magento Beginner's Guide</title>
	<author>samzenpus</author>
	<datestamp>1259176200000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.ross.ws/" rel="nofollow">Michael J. Ross</a> writes <i>"The shopping cart systems that power online stores have evolved from simple homebrew solutions in the CGI era to far more powerful open source packages, such as osCommerce.  But even the later systems are frequently criticized as suffering from poorly-written code and inadequate documentation &mdash; as well as for being difficult to install and administer, and nearly impossible to enhance with new functionality and improved site styling, at least without hiring outside help.  These problems alone would explain the rapidly growing interest in the latest generation of shopping cart systems, such as <a href="http://www.magentocommerce.com/">Magento</a>, purported to be outpacing all others in adoption.  In turn, technical publishers are making available books to help developers and site owners get started with this e-commerce alternative, such as <em>Magento: Beginner's Guide</em>, written by <a href="http://williamrice.com/">William Rice</a>."</i> Read on for the rest of Michael's review.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Michael J. Ross writes " The shopping cart systems that power online stores have evolved from simple homebrew solutions in the CGI era to far more powerful open source packages , such as osCommerce .
But even the later systems are frequently criticized as suffering from poorly-written code and inadequate documentation    as well as for being difficult to install and administer , and nearly impossible to enhance with new functionality and improved site styling , at least without hiring outside help .
These problems alone would explain the rapidly growing interest in the latest generation of shopping cart systems , such as Magento , purported to be outpacing all others in adoption .
In turn , technical publishers are making available books to help developers and site owners get started with this e-commerce alternative , such as Magento : Beginner 's Guide , written by William Rice .
" Read on for the rest of Michael 's review .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Michael J. Ross writes "The shopping cart systems that power online stores have evolved from simple homebrew solutions in the CGI era to far more powerful open source packages, such as osCommerce.
But even the later systems are frequently criticized as suffering from poorly-written code and inadequate documentation — as well as for being difficult to install and administer, and nearly impossible to enhance with new functionality and improved site styling, at least without hiring outside help.
These problems alone would explain the rapidly growing interest in the latest generation of shopping cart systems, such as Magento, purported to be outpacing all others in adoption.
In turn, technical publishers are making available books to help developers and site owners get started with this e-commerce alternative, such as Magento: Beginner's Guide, written by William Rice.
" Read on for the rest of Michael's review.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229862</id>
	<title>Import system</title>
	<author>palmerj3</author>
	<datestamp>1257152700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wonder if this book can show everyone how to import products reliably?  The current import system is total crap and often needs to be completely bypassed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if this book can show everyone how to import products reliably ?
The current import system is total crap and often needs to be completely bypassed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if this book can show everyone how to import products reliably?
The current import system is total crap and often needs to be completely bypassed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229816</id>
	<title>Re:Don't know too much about Magento, but do know</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257195540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you are attempting to launch a business without the initial funds to spend around $1000 on a custom shopping cart.</p></div><p>Please point me toward some $1000 custom shopping cart apps. that are currently running.   I have no money and lots of christmas presents to acquire.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are attempting to launch a business without the initial funds to spend around $ 1000 on a custom shopping cart.Please point me toward some $ 1000 custom shopping cart apps .
that are currently running .
I have no money and lots of christmas presents to acquire .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are attempting to launch a business without the initial funds to spend around $1000 on a custom shopping cart.Please point me toward some $1000 custom shopping cart apps.
that are currently running.
I have no money and lots of christmas presents to acquire.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232304</id>
	<title>Re:Magneto</title>
	<author>LordKronos</author>
	<datestamp>1257168960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you think it's bad that you read it as "Magneto", just think how I feel. I read it properly as "Magento" and thought "good job, editors***...you misspelled Magneto".</p><p>***no, I'm not new here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you think it 's bad that you read it as " Magneto " , just think how I feel .
I read it properly as " Magento " and thought " good job , editors * * * ...you misspelled Magneto " .
* * * no , I 'm not new here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you think it's bad that you read it as "Magneto", just think how I feel.
I read it properly as "Magento" and thought "good job, editors***...you misspelled Magneto".
***no, I'm not new here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232780</id>
	<title>Re:Magento isn't exactly perfect either</title>
	<author>loxosceles</author>
	<datestamp>1257172740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed.</p><p>I set up a test magento site just a couple weeks ago to see if it had gotten better, and not only was it slow as fsck, but the installer had some hiccups.  The URL checking steps broke, and I had to skip them.  I had a weird fastcgi + aliasing setup that may have contributed, but an installer should just work with defaults if you keep clicking next.  That magento didn't is a big red flag IMO.  I'm also not impressed with the admin interface.</p><p>The database setup step alone took a number of minutes, long enough that I had to look at the database files to make sure they were changing.  They were.  Magento is just exceedingly slow, both in initialization and in everyday operation.</p><p>Good code doesn't buy you anything if you have to rewrite most of it to get it to run reasonably fast.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed.I set up a test magento site just a couple weeks ago to see if it had gotten better , and not only was it slow as fsck , but the installer had some hiccups .
The URL checking steps broke , and I had to skip them .
I had a weird fastcgi + aliasing setup that may have contributed , but an installer should just work with defaults if you keep clicking next .
That magento did n't is a big red flag IMO .
I 'm also not impressed with the admin interface.The database setup step alone took a number of minutes , long enough that I had to look at the database files to make sure they were changing .
They were .
Magento is just exceedingly slow , both in initialization and in everyday operation.Good code does n't buy you anything if you have to rewrite most of it to get it to run reasonably fast .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.I set up a test magento site just a couple weeks ago to see if it had gotten better, and not only was it slow as fsck, but the installer had some hiccups.
The URL checking steps broke, and I had to skip them.
I had a weird fastcgi + aliasing setup that may have contributed, but an installer should just work with defaults if you keep clicking next.
That magento didn't is a big red flag IMO.
I'm also not impressed with the admin interface.The database setup step alone took a number of minutes, long enough that I had to look at the database files to make sure they were changing.
They were.
Magento is just exceedingly slow, both in initialization and in everyday operation.Good code doesn't buy you anything if you have to rewrite most of it to get it to run reasonably fast.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234916</id>
	<title>Re:Magento isn't exactly perfect either</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259229360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I have a few large scale magento projects under my belt, and I just want to pipe in here.</p></div><p>I to have a few magento shops, all built in the last 6 months. When I've had the shops to do Ive had very tight deadlines for them so havent really had much time to look at extending it much myself, and yes some of the code changes I have made are a little hacky.</p><p>Magento is very powerful, but that power comes at the cost of speed and eas of use.</p><p>Chapter 6 of the book (which I have)  is described thus</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The majority of the changes can be accomplished easily by the reader, because most of them are made within the Magento administrative area, and not through any involved editing of the CSS files of the default theme.</p></div><p>Sorry, but NO, most of that chapter tells you to edit the files. Hell even the callouts alt text is hard coded in one of the files!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a few large scale magento projects under my belt , and I just want to pipe in here.I to have a few magento shops , all built in the last 6 months .
When I 've had the shops to do Ive had very tight deadlines for them so havent really had much time to look at extending it much myself , and yes some of the code changes I have made are a little hacky.Magento is very powerful , but that power comes at the cost of speed and eas of use.Chapter 6 of the book ( which I have ) is described thusThe majority of the changes can be accomplished easily by the reader , because most of them are made within the Magento administrative area , and not through any involved editing of the CSS files of the default theme.Sorry , but NO , most of that chapter tells you to edit the files .
Hell even the callouts alt text is hard coded in one of the files !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a few large scale magento projects under my belt, and I just want to pipe in here.I to have a few magento shops, all built in the last 6 months.
When I've had the shops to do Ive had very tight deadlines for them so havent really had much time to look at extending it much myself, and yes some of the code changes I have made are a little hacky.Magento is very powerful, but that power comes at the cost of speed and eas of use.Chapter 6 of the book (which I have)  is described thusThe majority of the changes can be accomplished easily by the reader, because most of them are made within the Magento administrative area, and not through any involved editing of the CSS files of the default theme.Sorry, but NO, most of that chapter tells you to edit the files.
Hell even the callouts alt text is hard coded in one of the files!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229806</id>
	<title>Re:Magneto</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257195540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you think about it, shouldn't he be called Metal-o, not Magneto?  Have you ever seen him say 'Oh crap, that metal isn't magnetic, nothing I can do here.'  No, he just swings it all around without regard for what it is, as long as it's a metal.  He's more of a ferrokinetic with flight than anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you think about it , should n't he be called Metal-o , not Magneto ?
Have you ever seen him say 'Oh crap , that metal is n't magnetic , nothing I can do here .
' No , he just swings it all around without regard for what it is , as long as it 's a metal .
He 's more of a ferrokinetic with flight than anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you think about it, shouldn't he be called Metal-o, not Magneto?
Have you ever seen him say 'Oh crap, that metal isn't magnetic, nothing I can do here.
'  No, he just swings it all around without regard for what it is, as long as it's a metal.
He's more of a ferrokinetic with flight than anything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229498</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229420</id>
	<title>Not the book the Communtity needs...</title>
	<author>Maudib</author>
	<datestamp>1257193620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem with Magento is not that it is too complex for a non-technical user. The problem with Magento is that is not properly documented or commented for technical users. Non-technical users that stay within the Magento default store box will have no problems, developers that try to move outside this box will be frustrated, constantly.</p><p>Take a look at the code. There are precisely zero comments. Take a look at the documentation, there is almost no official documentation. This makes developing with Magento extremely hard as they employ some convoluted structures for very simple tasks. Eventually one finds that the code is generally of a high standard and that most things can be done without too much effort, but the learning curve is excessive.</p><p>I believe that the lack of comments and documentation is part of an intentional strategy by Varien to drive potential users to their closed-source Enterprise solution. The power of the community edition is enticing, but finding knowledgeable developers is nearly impossible and training inhouse staff takes far too long due to the conspicuous absence of documentation and comments.</p><p>Finally, I think it is pretty clear that PHP was a very poor choice for such a large framework. The lengths they need to go to implement something that appears to be convention bases and sort of but not quite dependency injected are extreme. PHP's inability to execute code asynchronously is a huge headache and the EAV model is cumbersome to say the least. Performance is seriously wanting.</p><p>So yeah, Magento is enticing as hell to non-technical beginners. However ultimately the combination of Varien's refusal to document/comment and their poor technology choices make this a platform that just won't scale. Whats needed to at least partially change that is Magento for Developers*</p><p>*There is a Magento for architects, but its already out of date and very short on real details.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with Magento is not that it is too complex for a non-technical user .
The problem with Magento is that is not properly documented or commented for technical users .
Non-technical users that stay within the Magento default store box will have no problems , developers that try to move outside this box will be frustrated , constantly.Take a look at the code .
There are precisely zero comments .
Take a look at the documentation , there is almost no official documentation .
This makes developing with Magento extremely hard as they employ some convoluted structures for very simple tasks .
Eventually one finds that the code is generally of a high standard and that most things can be done without too much effort , but the learning curve is excessive.I believe that the lack of comments and documentation is part of an intentional strategy by Varien to drive potential users to their closed-source Enterprise solution .
The power of the community edition is enticing , but finding knowledgeable developers is nearly impossible and training inhouse staff takes far too long due to the conspicuous absence of documentation and comments.Finally , I think it is pretty clear that PHP was a very poor choice for such a large framework .
The lengths they need to go to implement something that appears to be convention bases and sort of but not quite dependency injected are extreme .
PHP 's inability to execute code asynchronously is a huge headache and the EAV model is cumbersome to say the least .
Performance is seriously wanting.So yeah , Magento is enticing as hell to non-technical beginners .
However ultimately the combination of Varien 's refusal to document/comment and their poor technology choices make this a platform that just wo n't scale .
Whats needed to at least partially change that is Magento for Developers * * There is a Magento for architects , but its already out of date and very short on real details .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with Magento is not that it is too complex for a non-technical user.
The problem with Magento is that is not properly documented or commented for technical users.
Non-technical users that stay within the Magento default store box will have no problems, developers that try to move outside this box will be frustrated, constantly.Take a look at the code.
There are precisely zero comments.
Take a look at the documentation, there is almost no official documentation.
This makes developing with Magento extremely hard as they employ some convoluted structures for very simple tasks.
Eventually one finds that the code is generally of a high standard and that most things can be done without too much effort, but the learning curve is excessive.I believe that the lack of comments and documentation is part of an intentional strategy by Varien to drive potential users to their closed-source Enterprise solution.
The power of the community edition is enticing, but finding knowledgeable developers is nearly impossible and training inhouse staff takes far too long due to the conspicuous absence of documentation and comments.Finally, I think it is pretty clear that PHP was a very poor choice for such a large framework.
The lengths they need to go to implement something that appears to be convention bases and sort of but not quite dependency injected are extreme.
PHP's inability to execute code asynchronously is a huge headache and the EAV model is cumbersome to say the least.
Performance is seriously wanting.So yeah, Magento is enticing as hell to non-technical beginners.
However ultimately the combination of Varien's refusal to document/comment and their poor technology choices make this a platform that just won't scale.
Whats needed to at least partially change that is Magento for Developers**There is a Magento for architects, but its already out of date and very short on real details.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229396</id>
	<title>beginner's guide</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257193560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In a nutshell:<br>
<br>
1) It's told backwards. What you see at the beginning is actually the end.<br>
2) Teddy spends most of his time intentionally screwing with Leonard.<br>
3) Sammy Jankis is really the same person as Leonard.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In a nutshell : 1 ) It 's told backwards .
What you see at the beginning is actually the end .
2 ) Teddy spends most of his time intentionally screwing with Leonard .
3 ) Sammy Jankis is really the same person as Leonard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a nutshell:

1) It's told backwards.
What you see at the beginning is actually the end.
2) Teddy spends most of his time intentionally screwing with Leonard.
3) Sammy Jankis is really the same person as Leonard.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230610</id>
	<title>Re:osCommerce</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257156540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What I noticed when I evaluated osCommerce and few other ecommerce packages is the people who developed the package didn't have even a small understanding of how to use style sheets.  This was a few years ago, so maybe things have improved since then.</p></div><p>osCommerce has always been one of the shining examples of stupid people getting ahold of PHP and pretending to know how to program (phpnuke is probably the most famous).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What I noticed when I evaluated osCommerce and few other ecommerce packages is the people who developed the package did n't have even a small understanding of how to use style sheets .
This was a few years ago , so maybe things have improved since then.osCommerce has always been one of the shining examples of stupid people getting ahold of PHP and pretending to know how to program ( phpnuke is probably the most famous ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I noticed when I evaluated osCommerce and few other ecommerce packages is the people who developed the package didn't have even a small understanding of how to use style sheets.
This was a few years ago, so maybe things have improved since then.osCommerce has always been one of the shining examples of stupid people getting ahold of PHP and pretending to know how to program (phpnuke is probably the most famous).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229908</id>
	<title>Re:"at least without hiring outside help" -</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257152940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But if worst comes to worst, track down the bit of script you need to know (how it works) and read the code?</p></div><p>Easier said than done. Magento is over 5,000 files big and doing relatively simple things can involve editing about 10 different files. Doing more complex things can quickly become a nightmare.</p><p>sadly magento is still a better choice than it's competitors.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But if worst comes to worst , track down the bit of script you need to know ( how it works ) and read the code ? Easier said than done .
Magento is over 5,000 files big and doing relatively simple things can involve editing about 10 different files .
Doing more complex things can quickly become a nightmare.sadly magento is still a better choice than it 's competitors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But if worst comes to worst, track down the bit of script you need to know (how it works) and read the code?Easier said than done.
Magento is over 5,000 files big and doing relatively simple things can involve editing about 10 different files.
Doing more complex things can quickly become a nightmare.sadly magento is still a better choice than it's competitors.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234294</id>
	<title>Re:Magento is nice, but...</title>
	<author>Whiteox</author>
	<datestamp>1257189060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, if you are ok with writing web pages, then all you need is Mal's e-commerce.<br>It's free. It's a <i>hosted shopping cart</i> and will probably work well for your needs.<br><a href="http://www.mals-e.com/hosted\_by.php" title="mals-e.com">http://www.mals-e.com/hosted\_by.php</a> [mals-e.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , if you are ok with writing web pages , then all you need is Mal 's e-commerce.It 's free .
It 's a hosted shopping cart and will probably work well for your needs.http : //www.mals-e.com/hosted \ _by.php [ mals-e.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, if you are ok with writing web pages, then all you need is Mal's e-commerce.It's free.
It's a hosted shopping cart and will probably work well for your needs.http://www.mals-e.com/hosted\_by.php [mals-e.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229512</id>
	<title>Slashdot, you should follow the FTC guidelines..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257194100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... governing endorsements and testimonials: <a href="http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/10/endortest.shtm" title="ftc.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/10/endortest.shtm</a> [ftc.gov]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... governing endorsements and testimonials : http : //www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/10/endortest.shtm [ ftc.gov ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... governing endorsements and testimonials: http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/10/endortest.shtm [ftc.gov]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229608</id>
	<title>FAiLzORS</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257194520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Whether you Slashdot's wh3n IDC recently Crrek, abysmal ASSOCIATION OF</htmltext>
<tokenext>Whether you Slashdot 's wh3n IDC recently Crrek , abysmal ASSOCIATION OF</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whether you Slashdot's wh3n IDC recently Crrek, abysmal ASSOCIATION OF</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232812</id>
	<title>mopd 3own</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257172860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>today. It's about Cl3ar she 3ouldn't</htmltext>
<tokenext>today .
It 's about Cl3ar she 3ould n't</tokentext>
<sentencetext>today.
It's about Cl3ar she 3ouldn't</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230908</id>
	<title>Re:Magneto</title>
	<author>AK Dave</author>
	<datestamp>1257158640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Woah! Here is it! The "Beginners Guide to Magneto"! Totally awesome!</p><p>Thats my favorite hero/villain/mutant/goodguy/badguy - dang, he fills so many niches and his old 80s-era costume was totally awesome.</p><p>Wait, no. "Magento".</p><p>Imagine my disappointment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Woah !
Here is it !
The " Beginners Guide to Magneto " !
Totally awesome ! Thats my favorite hero/villain/mutant/goodguy/badguy - dang , he fills so many niches and his old 80s-era costume was totally awesome.Wait , no .
" Magento " .Imagine my disappointment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Woah!
Here is it!
The "Beginners Guide to Magneto"!
Totally awesome!Thats my favorite hero/villain/mutant/goodguy/badguy - dang, he fills so many niches and his old 80s-era costume was totally awesome.Wait, no.
"Magento".Imagine my disappointment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232990</id>
	<title>Re:"at least without hiring outside help" -</title>
	<author>crypie</author>
	<datestamp>1257174300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>It might be a shameless plug, but Satchmo - http://www.satchmoproject.com is a completely open source option. It's not perfect (what software is) but I believe it is a much better alternative than most of the PHP based alternatives.<br><br>I am one of the core devs so I am biased but do feel compelled to chime in with an alternative to the PHP based solutions out there like Magento.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It might be a shameless plug , but Satchmo - http : //www.satchmoproject.com is a completely open source option .
It 's not perfect ( what software is ) but I believe it is a much better alternative than most of the PHP based alternatives.I am one of the core devs so I am biased but do feel compelled to chime in with an alternative to the PHP based solutions out there like Magento .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It might be a shameless plug, but Satchmo - http://www.satchmoproject.com is a completely open source option.
It's not perfect (what software is) but I believe it is a much better alternative than most of the PHP based alternatives.I am one of the core devs so I am biased but do feel compelled to chime in with an alternative to the PHP based solutions out there like Magento.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231310</id>
	<title>Re:osCommerce</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257161640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Magento uses style sheets well and is very skinable with templates and stylesheets. So no need to change core code to customize your storefront. Took my first stab at using it and after only 30 hours of work have a functioning storefront up on http://www.worldantiquenetwork.com. Still needs some slight tweaking of the UI but I am very impressed so far with ease of use as a developer who has worked with many eCommerce systems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Magento uses style sheets well and is very skinable with templates and stylesheets .
So no need to change core code to customize your storefront .
Took my first stab at using it and after only 30 hours of work have a functioning storefront up on http : //www.worldantiquenetwork.com .
Still needs some slight tweaking of the UI but I am very impressed so far with ease of use as a developer who has worked with many eCommerce systems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Magento uses style sheets well and is very skinable with templates and stylesheets.
So no need to change core code to customize your storefront.
Took my first stab at using it and after only 30 hours of work have a functioning storefront up on http://www.worldantiquenetwork.com.
Still needs some slight tweaking of the UI but I am very impressed so far with ease of use as a developer who has worked with many eCommerce systems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234938</id>
	<title>Re:Good luck with that!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259229660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That reminded me a lot about this Dokeos (a learning CMS). The interface and the idea is one of the best I saw (I compared about 10 of them, including Moodle) and Dokeos was the best in terms of simplicity for admins, teachers and students.</p><p>Unfortunately, the "community support" is almost non existent. If you go to the forum you will see there are hundreds of unanswered questions, I installed it a couple of times and asked some questions in the forum (it seems there were some bugs and issues). Unfortunately my questions where unanswered.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That reminded me a lot about this Dokeos ( a learning CMS ) .
The interface and the idea is one of the best I saw ( I compared about 10 of them , including Moodle ) and Dokeos was the best in terms of simplicity for admins , teachers and students.Unfortunately , the " community support " is almost non existent .
If you go to the forum you will see there are hundreds of unanswered questions , I installed it a couple of times and asked some questions in the forum ( it seems there were some bugs and issues ) .
Unfortunately my questions where unanswered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That reminded me a lot about this Dokeos (a learning CMS).
The interface and the idea is one of the best I saw (I compared about 10 of them, including Moodle) and Dokeos was the best in terms of simplicity for admins, teachers and students.Unfortunately, the "community support" is almost non existent.
If you go to the forum you will see there are hundreds of unanswered questions, I installed it a couple of times and asked some questions in the forum (it seems there were some bugs and issues).
Unfortunately my questions where unanswered.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229864</id>
	<title>Re:Don't know too much about Magento, but do know</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257152700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Err, $1000 doesn't buy a lot of developer time here. Even with a cheap, small software developer it won't last more than 3 days x 8 hours. I doubt that anyone can write a decent custom coded solution on that budget, you're better off with a default installation of a shopping cart, paid or free.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Err , $ 1000 does n't buy a lot of developer time here .
Even with a cheap , small software developer it wo n't last more than 3 days x 8 hours .
I doubt that anyone can write a decent custom coded solution on that budget , you 're better off with a default installation of a shopping cart , paid or free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Err, $1000 doesn't buy a lot of developer time here.
Even with a cheap, small software developer it won't last more than 3 days x 8 hours.
I doubt that anyone can write a decent custom coded solution on that budget, you're better off with a default installation of a shopping cart, paid or free.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230184</id>
	<title>Re:Good luck with that!</title>
	<author>SteveFoerster</author>
	<datestamp>1257154260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><em>As an e-commerce business owner, and a former web developer, I just tried Magento based on a suggestion from my designer. It's not for regular people.</em></p><p>Magento is for irregular people?  I thought that was Milk of Magnesia?  Learn something new every day....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As an e-commerce business owner , and a former web developer , I just tried Magento based on a suggestion from my designer .
It 's not for regular people.Magento is for irregular people ?
I thought that was Milk of Magnesia ?
Learn something new every day... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As an e-commerce business owner, and a former web developer, I just tried Magento based on a suggestion from my designer.
It's not for regular people.Magento is for irregular people?
I thought that was Milk of Magnesia?
Learn something new every day....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231280</id>
	<title>I call Bullshit.</title>
	<author>billybob\_jcv</author>
	<datestamp>1257161460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anyone who has needed to deal with credit card security concerns and being audited by Visa or one of the big processors for PCI compliance will run to a commercially supported ecommerce product or ASP payment service.  The days of custom coded carts for a serious online business is over.  It doesn't matter whether the custom coded cart is more or less secure, and it also doesn't matter if 90\% of online credit card security concerns are total bullshit propagated by the security consultants - this is about risk mitigation and about business owners having someone they can point to if the PCI audit is required.  So, yeah, you can continue to make a few bucks selling custom carts or low-cost carts to micro-businesses, but you won't be making a living off any well-known brands.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anyone who has needed to deal with credit card security concerns and being audited by Visa or one of the big processors for PCI compliance will run to a commercially supported ecommerce product or ASP payment service .
The days of custom coded carts for a serious online business is over .
It does n't matter whether the custom coded cart is more or less secure , and it also does n't matter if 90 \ % of online credit card security concerns are total bullshit propagated by the security consultants - this is about risk mitigation and about business owners having someone they can point to if the PCI audit is required .
So , yeah , you can continue to make a few bucks selling custom carts or low-cost carts to micro-businesses , but you wo n't be making a living off any well-known brands .
     </tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anyone who has needed to deal with credit card security concerns and being audited by Visa or one of the big processors for PCI compliance will run to a commercially supported ecommerce product or ASP payment service.
The days of custom coded carts for a serious online business is over.
It doesn't matter whether the custom coded cart is more or less secure, and it also doesn't matter if 90\% of online credit card security concerns are total bullshit propagated by the security consultants - this is about risk mitigation and about business owners having someone they can point to if the PCI audit is required.
So, yeah, you can continue to make a few bucks selling custom carts or low-cost carts to micro-businesses, but you won't be making a living off any well-known brands.
     </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230904</id>
	<title>Very slow</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257158640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've tried Magento in the past, as an alternative to osCommerce and Zencart. The templating system on the later two is horrendous, Zencart being slightly better. The backend store management leaves a lot to be desired as well, but they are usable products. The default template for Magento looks slick enough that you don't have to mess with it for small time operations. The backend is also quite nice, at least compared to the other two (this is a matter of preference and opinion), however there are also some bonehead things.</p><p>The one problem I had with Magento was its performance. It's probably not an issue if you have fast and expensive web hosting. I was trying to host a webstore on phpwebhosting.net, which is decently cheap and I had no problems with it up until that point. Whereas there were no performance issues with osCommerce or Zencart, Magento would take 30seconds to 1 minute to load the first time you viewed it. After that it was ok, but the first load was killer. It's not that it loaded one piece at a time slowly. There was just nothing, for a long time, then everything would appear at once. As it turns out, there is one killer of an sql query sent out right off the bat. This is quite unacceptable as no customer would wait that long.</p><p>I tried it on and off for a year but there was never any improvement. Basically, it's not a webstore for small time guys on small servers. You're better off sticking with Zencart.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've tried Magento in the past , as an alternative to osCommerce and Zencart .
The templating system on the later two is horrendous , Zencart being slightly better .
The backend store management leaves a lot to be desired as well , but they are usable products .
The default template for Magento looks slick enough that you do n't have to mess with it for small time operations .
The backend is also quite nice , at least compared to the other two ( this is a matter of preference and opinion ) , however there are also some bonehead things.The one problem I had with Magento was its performance .
It 's probably not an issue if you have fast and expensive web hosting .
I was trying to host a webstore on phpwebhosting.net , which is decently cheap and I had no problems with it up until that point .
Whereas there were no performance issues with osCommerce or Zencart , Magento would take 30seconds to 1 minute to load the first time you viewed it .
After that it was ok , but the first load was killer .
It 's not that it loaded one piece at a time slowly .
There was just nothing , for a long time , then everything would appear at once .
As it turns out , there is one killer of an sql query sent out right off the bat .
This is quite unacceptable as no customer would wait that long.I tried it on and off for a year but there was never any improvement .
Basically , it 's not a webstore for small time guys on small servers .
You 're better off sticking with Zencart .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've tried Magento in the past, as an alternative to osCommerce and Zencart.
The templating system on the later two is horrendous, Zencart being slightly better.
The backend store management leaves a lot to be desired as well, but they are usable products.
The default template for Magento looks slick enough that you don't have to mess with it for small time operations.
The backend is also quite nice, at least compared to the other two (this is a matter of preference and opinion), however there are also some bonehead things.The one problem I had with Magento was its performance.
It's probably not an issue if you have fast and expensive web hosting.
I was trying to host a webstore on phpwebhosting.net, which is decently cheap and I had no problems with it up until that point.
Whereas there were no performance issues with osCommerce or Zencart, Magento would take 30seconds to 1 minute to load the first time you viewed it.
After that it was ok, but the first load was killer.
It's not that it loaded one piece at a time slowly.
There was just nothing, for a long time, then everything would appear at once.
As it turns out, there is one killer of an sql query sent out right off the bat.
This is quite unacceptable as no customer would wait that long.I tried it on and off for a year but there was never any improvement.
Basically, it's not a webstore for small time guys on small servers.
You're better off sticking with Zencart.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230996</id>
	<title>Zencart</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257159180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Zencart works for us.  Decent guides are available, and search engines seem to like the way it presents products.</p><p>Many hosting providers will install it as part of your hosting package.  Hosting a fully functional Zencart setup can cost  20/ month with scads of drive space.</p><p>Integrating it with your pos is easy - export out of your pos, and follow the instructions using the Easypopulate add-on.</p><p>You can add Live Help via sideboxes, or add other content pretty much as you see fit.  You just find the relevant code section, and modify or add to it.</p><p>The forums that help support Zencart are chock full of people who've asked what you're going to ask, and many times get a decent answer from a developer or at least a lead in the right direction.</p><p>I don't resell, or sell Zencart, just noticed its absence from the discussion.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Zencart works for us .
Decent guides are available , and search engines seem to like the way it presents products.Many hosting providers will install it as part of your hosting package .
Hosting a fully functional Zencart setup can cost 20/ month with scads of drive space.Integrating it with your pos is easy - export out of your pos , and follow the instructions using the Easypopulate add-on.You can add Live Help via sideboxes , or add other content pretty much as you see fit .
You just find the relevant code section , and modify or add to it.The forums that help support Zencart are chock full of people who 've asked what you 're going to ask , and many times get a decent answer from a developer or at least a lead in the right direction.I do n't resell , or sell Zencart , just noticed its absence from the discussion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Zencart works for us.
Decent guides are available, and search engines seem to like the way it presents products.Many hosting providers will install it as part of your hosting package.
Hosting a fully functional Zencart setup can cost  20/ month with scads of drive space.Integrating it with your pos is easy - export out of your pos, and follow the instructions using the Easypopulate add-on.You can add Live Help via sideboxes, or add other content pretty much as you see fit.
You just find the relevant code section, and modify or add to it.The forums that help support Zencart are chock full of people who've asked what you're going to ask, and many times get a decent answer from a developer or at least a lead in the right direction.I don't resell, or sell Zencart, just noticed its absence from the discussion.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229980</id>
	<title>Where?</title>
	<author>DogDude</author>
	<datestamp>1257153180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Where can I find somebody to build a functional custom shopping solution for around $1000?  I don't think that $1000 will go very far towards something that's functional and reliable.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Where can I find somebody to build a functional custom shopping solution for around $ 1000 ?
I do n't think that $ 1000 will go very far towards something that 's functional and reliable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where can I find somebody to build a functional custom shopping solution for around $1000?
I don't think that $1000 will go very far towards something that's functional and reliable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229222</id>
	<title>osCommerce</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257192780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What I noticed when I evaluated osCommerce and few other ecommerce packages is the people who developed the package didn't have even a small understanding of how to use style sheets.  This was a few years ago, so maybe things have improved since then.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What I noticed when I evaluated osCommerce and few other ecommerce packages is the people who developed the package did n't have even a small understanding of how to use style sheets .
This was a few years ago , so maybe things have improved since then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I noticed when I evaluated osCommerce and few other ecommerce packages is the people who developed the package didn't have even a small understanding of how to use style sheets.
This was a few years ago, so maybe things have improved since then.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229380</id>
	<title>Magento isn't exactly perfect either</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257193500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have a few large scale magento projects under my belt, and I just want to pipe in here.<blockquote><div><p> even the later systems are frequently criticized as suffering from poorly-written code and inadequate documentation</p></div></blockquote><p>

Magento does do a better job in these areas than say, osCommerce, but there are still massively underdocumented portions of the code base.  The code is clean and extensible, but horribly inefficient, to the point where a lot of people speculate that the Magento team wants it to be like that, so when your store takes off you are more likely to hire them to speed things up.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a few large scale magento projects under my belt , and I just want to pipe in here .
even the later systems are frequently criticized as suffering from poorly-written code and inadequate documentation Magento does do a better job in these areas than say , osCommerce , but there are still massively underdocumented portions of the code base .
The code is clean and extensible , but horribly inefficient , to the point where a lot of people speculate that the Magento team wants it to be like that , so when your store takes off you are more likely to hire them to speed things up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a few large scale magento projects under my belt, and I just want to pipe in here.
even the later systems are frequently criticized as suffering from poorly-written code and inadequate documentation

Magento does do a better job in these areas than say, osCommerce, but there are still massively underdocumented portions of the code base.
The code is clean and extensible, but horribly inefficient, to the point where a lot of people speculate that the Magento team wants it to be like that, so when your store takes off you are more likely to hire them to speed things up.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229562</id>
	<title>"at least without hiring outside help" -</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257194340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>.. This statement is interesting.<br>A lot of the e-commerce software you can get for free is written in common web development languages, e.g. Perl/PHP/Ruby/ASP.<br>So is this a question of lacking in-house competence from a SMB perspective? Most OSS e-commerce packages I've used have been a breeze to install, never mind to customize.</p><p>The truth to the statement is that some things are, at best, poorly documented. But if worst comes to worst, track down the bit of script you need to know (how it works) and read the code?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.. This statement is interesting.A lot of the e-commerce software you can get for free is written in common web development languages , e.g .
Perl/PHP/Ruby/ASP.So is this a question of lacking in-house competence from a SMB perspective ?
Most OSS e-commerce packages I 've used have been a breeze to install , never mind to customize.The truth to the statement is that some things are , at best , poorly documented .
But if worst comes to worst , track down the bit of script you need to know ( how it works ) and read the code ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.. This statement is interesting.A lot of the e-commerce software you can get for free is written in common web development languages, e.g.
Perl/PHP/Ruby/ASP.So is this a question of lacking in-house competence from a SMB perspective?
Most OSS e-commerce packages I've used have been a breeze to install, never mind to customize.The truth to the statement is that some things are, at best, poorly documented.
But if worst comes to worst, track down the bit of script you need to know (how it works) and read the code?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229970</id>
	<title>Re:Magneto</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1257153180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry? There were people who <em>didn&rsquo;t</em> read it as &ldquo;Magneto&rdquo;??</p><p>As if anybody ever heard about this Magento-whatever-it-is, before this Slashvertisement. ^^</p><p>Hell, I comment here, and I still haven&rsquo;t heard about it. And I most likely never will!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry ?
There were people who didn    t read it as    Magneto    ?
? As if anybody ever heard about this Magento-whatever-it-is , before this Slashvertisement .
^ ^ Hell , I comment here , and I still haven    t heard about it .
And I most likely never will !
: P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry?
There were people who didn’t read it as “Magneto”?
?As if anybody ever heard about this Magento-whatever-it-is, before this Slashvertisement.
^^Hell, I comment here, and I still haven’t heard about it.
And I most likely never will!
:P</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230668</id>
	<title>Stay away from it if you look forward.</title>
	<author>unity100</author>
	<datestamp>1257156960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i work in the field. im a programmer.</p><p>magento is shiny, looks good and whatnot, but the code seems to be done in a way to discourage external development and modification. it takes 2-3 times longer to do some modification to magento that it takes to do on other shopping cart software.</p><p>im suspecting this to be a new trend though. i noticed similar other software (non shopping cart) out there, which were open source, but coded in such a way that (as if to show your left ear with your right hand), it would become complicated and manually time consuming to modify, therefore discouraging 3rd party development.</p><p>we had some former clients jumping on magento bandwagon. things went well for them at the start. but as their needs for modification increased with passing time, they had to migrate their store to another cart because it became too expensive for them to fund modifications to their store software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i work in the field .
im a programmer.magento is shiny , looks good and whatnot , but the code seems to be done in a way to discourage external development and modification .
it takes 2-3 times longer to do some modification to magento that it takes to do on other shopping cart software.im suspecting this to be a new trend though .
i noticed similar other software ( non shopping cart ) out there , which were open source , but coded in such a way that ( as if to show your left ear with your right hand ) , it would become complicated and manually time consuming to modify , therefore discouraging 3rd party development.we had some former clients jumping on magento bandwagon .
things went well for them at the start .
but as their needs for modification increased with passing time , they had to migrate their store to another cart because it became too expensive for them to fund modifications to their store software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i work in the field.
im a programmer.magento is shiny, looks good and whatnot, but the code seems to be done in a way to discourage external development and modification.
it takes 2-3 times longer to do some modification to magento that it takes to do on other shopping cart software.im suspecting this to be a new trend though.
i noticed similar other software (non shopping cart) out there, which were open source, but coded in such a way that (as if to show your left ear with your right hand), it would become complicated and manually time consuming to modify, therefore discouraging 3rd party development.we had some former clients jumping on magento bandwagon.
things went well for them at the start.
but as their needs for modification increased with passing time, they had to migrate their store to another cart because it became too expensive for them to fund modifications to their store software.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229498</id>
	<title>Re:Magneto</title>
	<author>sajuuk</author>
	<datestamp>1257193980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>And here I thought this book was going to tell me how to get awesome powers of electromagnetic manipulation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And here I thought this book was going to tell me how to get awesome powers of electromagnetic manipulation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And here I thought this book was going to tell me how to get awesome powers of electromagnetic manipulation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231852</id>
	<title>Re:Magento is nice, but...</title>
	<author>Grishnakh</author>
	<datestamp>1257165540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is the problem I had with all the open-source ecommerce systems I tried a while ago when I just wanted to add a nice shopping cart to my little site, where I sell a small handful of products.  All of the options (oscommerce, magento, etc.) were bloated, and used the database for <b>everything</b>.  Every single page view required database lookups to create the page.  Maybe this makes sense on some site selling dozens or hundreds of products, each with very little description, but my site only has a few products, with very large pages dedicated to each one, along with instruction pages, troubleshooting pages, etc.  None of the options seemed to fit that at all.  I looked into trying to modify both oscommerce and magento to fit my needs (I know Perl, but not really PHP), but they were so huge and complicated that it wasn't an easy task to try to trim them down.</p><p>What I want is a simple shopping cart that's open-source, and lets me use my existing website (without turning it into some database-driven monstrosity) with its simple, fast-loading pages, which only use PHP for the headers and footers.  There doesn't really seem to be any such thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is the problem I had with all the open-source ecommerce systems I tried a while ago when I just wanted to add a nice shopping cart to my little site , where I sell a small handful of products .
All of the options ( oscommerce , magento , etc .
) were bloated , and used the database for everything .
Every single page view required database lookups to create the page .
Maybe this makes sense on some site selling dozens or hundreds of products , each with very little description , but my site only has a few products , with very large pages dedicated to each one , along with instruction pages , troubleshooting pages , etc .
None of the options seemed to fit that at all .
I looked into trying to modify both oscommerce and magento to fit my needs ( I know Perl , but not really PHP ) , but they were so huge and complicated that it was n't an easy task to try to trim them down.What I want is a simple shopping cart that 's open-source , and lets me use my existing website ( without turning it into some database-driven monstrosity ) with its simple , fast-loading pages , which only use PHP for the headers and footers .
There does n't really seem to be any such thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is the problem I had with all the open-source ecommerce systems I tried a while ago when I just wanted to add a nice shopping cart to my little site, where I sell a small handful of products.
All of the options (oscommerce, magento, etc.
) were bloated, and used the database for everything.
Every single page view required database lookups to create the page.
Maybe this makes sense on some site selling dozens or hundreds of products, each with very little description, but my site only has a few products, with very large pages dedicated to each one, along with instruction pages, troubleshooting pages, etc.
None of the options seemed to fit that at all.
I looked into trying to modify both oscommerce and magento to fit my needs (I know Perl, but not really PHP), but they were so huge and complicated that it wasn't an easy task to try to trim them down.What I want is a simple shopping cart that's open-source, and lets me use my existing website (without turning it into some database-driven monstrosity) with its simple, fast-loading pages, which only use PHP for the headers and footers.
There doesn't really seem to be any such thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230094</id>
	<title>So now that I know about the book...</title>
	<author>lbalbalba</author>
	<datestamp>1257153840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... is 'Magento' itself actually any good or not ?</htmltext>
<tokenext>... is 'Magento ' itself actually any good or not ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... is 'Magento' itself actually any good or not ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234350</id>
	<title>Re:osCommerce</title>
	<author>DavidTC</author>
	<datestamp>1257190320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Amen. It is amazing how popular total crap is, sometimes. It got there first, and, by God, people will continue to use it five years later no matter what's come out in the meantime.</p><p>
I will point out this isn't entirely the fault of PHP. It happens in other languages too. Two words: BIND and sendmail.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Amen .
It is amazing how popular total crap is , sometimes .
It got there first , and , by God , people will continue to use it five years later no matter what 's come out in the meantime .
I will point out this is n't entirely the fault of PHP .
It happens in other languages too .
Two words : BIND and sendmail .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Amen.
It is amazing how popular total crap is, sometimes.
It got there first, and, by God, people will continue to use it five years later no matter what's come out in the meantime.
I will point out this isn't entirely the fault of PHP.
It happens in other languages too.
Two words: BIND and sendmail.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230610</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229632</id>
	<title>Re:osCommerce</title>
	<author>loconet</author>
	<datestamp>1257194640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problems with osCommerce go further (much much further) than just style sheet issues.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problems with osCommerce go further ( much much further ) than just style sheet issues .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problems with osCommerce go further (much much further) than just style sheet issues.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230270</id>
	<title>Re:osCommerce</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257154740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I set up and used an osCommerce system 5-6 years ago (yeah, there have been a lot of changes since then, but I still wouldn't touch it).  It's wildly popular with small stores you've never heard of and are probably scared to order from, but it's also a massive piece of shit.  I ended up *completely* rewriting the admin management side. Their admin shit sucks ass when you have a large number of products.
</p><p>
Example:  If you want to delete an item, first, list every item in your store (slowly).  You choose the item and wait for the page to redraw with the selected item now highlited.  Click the delete button and wait for the page to redraw, confirming your delete.  Click yes (or no) and wait for the list to redraw again.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I set up and used an osCommerce system 5-6 years ago ( yeah , there have been a lot of changes since then , but I still would n't touch it ) .
It 's wildly popular with small stores you 've never heard of and are probably scared to order from , but it 's also a massive piece of shit .
I ended up * completely * rewriting the admin management side .
Their admin shit sucks ass when you have a large number of products .
Example : If you want to delete an item , first , list every item in your store ( slowly ) .
You choose the item and wait for the page to redraw with the selected item now highlited .
Click the delete button and wait for the page to redraw , confirming your delete .
Click yes ( or no ) and wait for the list to redraw again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I set up and used an osCommerce system 5-6 years ago (yeah, there have been a lot of changes since then, but I still wouldn't touch it).
It's wildly popular with small stores you've never heard of and are probably scared to order from, but it's also a massive piece of shit.
I ended up *completely* rewriting the admin management side.
Their admin shit sucks ass when you have a large number of products.
Example:  If you want to delete an item, first, list every item in your store (slowly).
You choose the item and wait for the page to redraw with the selected item now highlited.
Click the delete button and wait for the page to redraw, confirming your delete.
Click yes (or no) and wait for the list to redraw again.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230388</id>
	<title>Impenetrable</title>
	<author>PDHoss</author>
	<datestamp>1257155340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree that Magento is a properly designed enterprise commerce package and that most other OS commerce packages are spaghetti.  But Magento is just... Impenetrable.  You wander around forever just trying to figure out how to change some simple thing.  Knock the PHP hack carts all you want, but I bet I can figure out how to graft on a quick feature about a billion times faster in that than in Magento.  And when you're talking OS solutions, a great many users will be of the hacker type just wanting to git 'r done.</p><p>Magento is just waaaaaay to "pure" for my tastes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree that Magento is a properly designed enterprise commerce package and that most other OS commerce packages are spaghetti .
But Magento is just... Impenetrable. You wander around forever just trying to figure out how to change some simple thing .
Knock the PHP hack carts all you want , but I bet I can figure out how to graft on a quick feature about a billion times faster in that than in Magento .
And when you 're talking OS solutions , a great many users will be of the hacker type just wanting to git 'r done.Magento is just waaaaaay to " pure " for my tastes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree that Magento is a properly designed enterprise commerce package and that most other OS commerce packages are spaghetti.
But Magento is just... Impenetrable.  You wander around forever just trying to figure out how to change some simple thing.
Knock the PHP hack carts all you want, but I bet I can figure out how to graft on a quick feature about a billion times faster in that than in Magento.
And when you're talking OS solutions, a great many users will be of the hacker type just wanting to git 'r done.Magento is just waaaaaay to "pure" for my tastes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231550</id>
	<title>Re:Magneto</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257162960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; I read the title as Magneto Beginner's Guide. I must read too many comic books.</p><p>That's the only reason I even came to this article.  Where's my Magneto, dammit!?</p><p>I wanted to learn how to develop awesome mutant powers, not something about some lame e-commerce application (or whatever it is... I didn't care enough to read much of the summary).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; I read the title as Magneto Beginner 's Guide .
I must read too many comic books.That 's the only reason I even came to this article .
Where 's my Magneto , dammit !
? I wanted to learn how to develop awesome mutant powers , not something about some lame e-commerce application ( or whatever it is... I did n't care enough to read much of the summary ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; I read the title as Magneto Beginner's Guide.
I must read too many comic books.That's the only reason I even came to this article.
Where's my Magneto, dammit!
?I wanted to learn how to develop awesome mutant powers, not something about some lame e-commerce application (or whatever it is... I didn't care enough to read much of the summary).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231446</id>
	<title>Re:Stay away from it if you look forward.</title>
	<author>Skal Tura</author>
	<datestamp>1257162300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Amen to that!</p><p>Underneath lies tho larger problems than just that. Sure it's been obfuscated to make harder for 3rd party modifications, but they actually fail to implement proper MVC pattern, just to name one problem. (Nevermind that 12k files in a fresh install...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Amen to that ! Underneath lies tho larger problems than just that .
Sure it 's been obfuscated to make harder for 3rd party modifications , but they actually fail to implement proper MVC pattern , just to name one problem .
( Nevermind that 12k files in a fresh install... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Amen to that!Underneath lies tho larger problems than just that.
Sure it's been obfuscated to make harder for 3rd party modifications, but they actually fail to implement proper MVC pattern, just to name one problem.
(Nevermind that 12k files in a fresh install...)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230668</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604</id>
	<title>Don't know too much about Magento, but do know</title>
	<author>al0ha</author>
	<datestamp>1257194520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>that based on experience, retailers that propose setting up an ecommerce site should forgo all "canned" shopping carts and fork over the minimal money it will cost to have one custom written to fit your business.
<br>
<br>
If you are attempting to launch a business without the initial funds to spend around $1000 on a custom shopping cart, with the expectation of spending more money down the road adding custom features tailored to your business if proved successful, then you are not ready to start your business.</htmltext>
<tokenext>that based on experience , retailers that propose setting up an ecommerce site should forgo all " canned " shopping carts and fork over the minimal money it will cost to have one custom written to fit your business .
If you are attempting to launch a business without the initial funds to spend around $ 1000 on a custom shopping cart , with the expectation of spending more money down the road adding custom features tailored to your business if proved successful , then you are not ready to start your business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that based on experience, retailers that propose setting up an ecommerce site should forgo all "canned" shopping carts and fork over the minimal money it will cost to have one custom written to fit your business.
If you are attempting to launch a business without the initial funds to spend around $1000 on a custom shopping cart, with the expectation of spending more money down the road adding custom features tailored to your business if proved successful, then you are not ready to start your business.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231012</id>
	<title>I run a Magento shop... This is my experience</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257159300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Magento was a headache in the beginning. The code is abstracted beyond imagination. Imagine every database table (there are more than 200 in my install) has at least 3 classes associated with it. Every new section of a page needs at least 1 class and 1 template file associated with it. There are literally hundreds of xml files that hold configuration options. Most top-level classes extend other classes 3-4 layers deep. Wrapping your head around this takes a lot of time and effort. Don't even get me started on the EAV architect. Look it up on wikipedia if you don't know what it is.</p><p>However, once you learn Magento's MVC architect and understand the EAV architect and once you get a feel for all the base classes, then it is beautiful. It is amazingly extensible. True, it takes twice as long to do anything if you follow the Magento way. However, you easily save as much time in terms of extending functionality later on and maintaining what you did.</p><p>True, back in the day Magento was slow. It was not just slow, it was dog slow. This is not the case anymore. I run a shop with about 400,000 products and over 6,000 categories. Every page loads in one second or less according to YSlow. I run it off of two servers. And this is the community edition.</p><p>So, if you haven't looked at Magento I would recommend giving it a real shot. Its true, you will need to understand programming if you don't want to do anything basic. Even theming will require understanding of file structure and xml files. But, if you can handle this, then you will learn to love Magento.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Magento was a headache in the beginning .
The code is abstracted beyond imagination .
Imagine every database table ( there are more than 200 in my install ) has at least 3 classes associated with it .
Every new section of a page needs at least 1 class and 1 template file associated with it .
There are literally hundreds of xml files that hold configuration options .
Most top-level classes extend other classes 3-4 layers deep .
Wrapping your head around this takes a lot of time and effort .
Do n't even get me started on the EAV architect .
Look it up on wikipedia if you do n't know what it is.However , once you learn Magento 's MVC architect and understand the EAV architect and once you get a feel for all the base classes , then it is beautiful .
It is amazingly extensible .
True , it takes twice as long to do anything if you follow the Magento way .
However , you easily save as much time in terms of extending functionality later on and maintaining what you did.True , back in the day Magento was slow .
It was not just slow , it was dog slow .
This is not the case anymore .
I run a shop with about 400,000 products and over 6,000 categories .
Every page loads in one second or less according to YSlow .
I run it off of two servers .
And this is the community edition.So , if you have n't looked at Magento I would recommend giving it a real shot .
Its true , you will need to understand programming if you do n't want to do anything basic .
Even theming will require understanding of file structure and xml files .
But , if you can handle this , then you will learn to love Magento .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Magento was a headache in the beginning.
The code is abstracted beyond imagination.
Imagine every database table (there are more than 200 in my install) has at least 3 classes associated with it.
Every new section of a page needs at least 1 class and 1 template file associated with it.
There are literally hundreds of xml files that hold configuration options.
Most top-level classes extend other classes 3-4 layers deep.
Wrapping your head around this takes a lot of time and effort.
Don't even get me started on the EAV architect.
Look it up on wikipedia if you don't know what it is.However, once you learn Magento's MVC architect and understand the EAV architect and once you get a feel for all the base classes, then it is beautiful.
It is amazingly extensible.
True, it takes twice as long to do anything if you follow the Magento way.
However, you easily save as much time in terms of extending functionality later on and maintaining what you did.True, back in the day Magento was slow.
It was not just slow, it was dog slow.
This is not the case anymore.
I run a shop with about 400,000 products and over 6,000 categories.
Every page loads in one second or less according to YSlow.
I run it off of two servers.
And this is the community edition.So, if you haven't looked at Magento I would recommend giving it a real shot.
Its true, you will need to understand programming if you don't want to do anything basic.
Even theming will require understanding of file structure and xml files.
But, if you can handle this, then you will learn to love Magento.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231376</id>
	<title>Having worked with Magento...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257162000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Foreword: I work as a web developer, and work in highly complex dynamic systems, specializing in UIs and system integration.</p><p>I've worked with both osCommerce and Magento. Magento has very good marketing engine, really efficient throwing around of buzzwords. Sure it says on the cover to use Zend Framework and MVC pattern. What's not to like? EVERYTHING. The implementation is crappy even at best. It's not true MVC as view components actually FETCH DATA oO;</p><p>I spent about 3 weeks to get an new store launched, and launch was even delayed. The same work, the same system could have been done using osCommerce in a week...</p><p>I would recommend Magento only to my worst enemy, even that might be slightly too cruel. The list of problems with Magento is too immense to even start listing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... But i do say: Put it to SVN, checkout to empty directory and try if it work<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p><p>(Oh, and the development documentation for Magento is complete hokus pokus marketing bullshit)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Foreword : I work as a web developer , and work in highly complex dynamic systems , specializing in UIs and system integration.I 've worked with both osCommerce and Magento .
Magento has very good marketing engine , really efficient throwing around of buzzwords .
Sure it says on the cover to use Zend Framework and MVC pattern .
What 's not to like ?
EVERYTHING. The implementation is crappy even at best .
It 's not true MVC as view components actually FETCH DATA oO ; I spent about 3 weeks to get an new store launched , and launch was even delayed .
The same work , the same system could have been done using osCommerce in a week...I would recommend Magento only to my worst enemy , even that might be slightly too cruel .
The list of problems with Magento is too immense to even start listing ... But i do say : Put it to SVN , checkout to empty directory and try if it work ; ) ( Oh , and the development documentation for Magento is complete hokus pokus marketing bullshit )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Foreword: I work as a web developer, and work in highly complex dynamic systems, specializing in UIs and system integration.I've worked with both osCommerce and Magento.
Magento has very good marketing engine, really efficient throwing around of buzzwords.
Sure it says on the cover to use Zend Framework and MVC pattern.
What's not to like?
EVERYTHING. The implementation is crappy even at best.
It's not true MVC as view components actually FETCH DATA oO;I spent about 3 weeks to get an new store launched, and launch was even delayed.
The same work, the same system could have been done using osCommerce in a week...I would recommend Magento only to my worst enemy, even that might be slightly too cruel.
The list of problems with Magento is too immense to even start listing ... But i do say: Put it to SVN, checkout to empty directory and try if it work ;)(Oh, and the development documentation for Magento is complete hokus pokus marketing bullshit)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230322</id>
	<title>Re:Good luck with that!</title>
	<author>Anarchduke</author>
	<datestamp>1257155040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I noticed that.  I looked on their website and found that Yay, its open source.  But the "Community" version apparently doesn't support encryption or a number of other security measure present in the Enterprise version.  The community version is free, but their enterprise version, according to Magneto, "Start at $8,900 USD/yr"<br> <br>
They boast of 1 million downloads, but I am wondering how many of those downloads actually became Enterprise customers.  I don't know what it is about their website, but it makes me suspicious and very unwilling to leave any contact information with them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I noticed that .
I looked on their website and found that Yay , its open source .
But the " Community " version apparently does n't support encryption or a number of other security measure present in the Enterprise version .
The community version is free , but their enterprise version , according to Magneto , " Start at $ 8,900 USD/yr " They boast of 1 million downloads , but I am wondering how many of those downloads actually became Enterprise customers .
I do n't know what it is about their website , but it makes me suspicious and very unwilling to leave any contact information with them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I noticed that.
I looked on their website and found that Yay, its open source.
But the "Community" version apparently doesn't support encryption or a number of other security measure present in the Enterprise version.
The community version is free, but their enterprise version, according to Magneto, "Start at $8,900 USD/yr" 
They boast of 1 million downloads, but I am wondering how many of those downloads actually became Enterprise customers.
I don't know what it is about their website, but it makes me suspicious and very unwilling to leave any contact information with them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230040</id>
	<title>Re:Don't know too much about Magento, but do know</title>
	<author>TheModelEskimo</author>
	<datestamp>1257153540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are a *lot* of businesses out there that exist most comfortably with a web development budget that won't allow them to use a customized shopping cart. <br> <br>

When I come across one of them that does have a customized shopping cart and is looking for a new web developer because the old one got hit by a bus, or just started ignoring their calls, I do feel really bad for them. Suddenly they're 1) really vulnerable to back-end developers with a God-complex and 2) lacking a cost-effective way to port their previous developer's crappy CSS non-templating system over to new software.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are a * lot * of businesses out there that exist most comfortably with a web development budget that wo n't allow them to use a customized shopping cart .
When I come across one of them that does have a customized shopping cart and is looking for a new web developer because the old one got hit by a bus , or just started ignoring their calls , I do feel really bad for them .
Suddenly they 're 1 ) really vulnerable to back-end developers with a God-complex and 2 ) lacking a cost-effective way to port their previous developer 's crappy CSS non-templating system over to new software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are a *lot* of businesses out there that exist most comfortably with a web development budget that won't allow them to use a customized shopping cart.
When I come across one of them that does have a customized shopping cart and is looking for a new web developer because the old one got hit by a bus, or just started ignoring their calls, I do feel really bad for them.
Suddenly they're 1) really vulnerable to back-end developers with a God-complex and 2) lacking a cost-effective way to port their previous developer's crappy CSS non-templating system over to new software.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30237586</id>
	<title>THe problem isn't the code...</title>
	<author>coryking</author>
	<datestamp>1259255820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem I've ran into with most OSS (and even paid) ecommerce systems is they dont understand basic accounting nor do they understand how a business operates.</p><p>Take zen-cart for example.  When a customer cancels an order, what is the proper thing to do?  Well, I'll tell you what *isn't* the proper thing... DELETE THE ORDER FROM THE DATABASE!!</p><p>The second I found out that the way to hide/cancel an order was deleting it from the database, I ran away from zen-cart.  You never delete an order... what if you got audited?  What if the customer wanted to actually go ahead with the order?  What if you wanted to get a report on the number of canceled orders?  You can't if you delete the damn thing from the database!!</p><p>Really, the problem is these products had their interface designed to suit their database schema.  In reality, the design and workflow should come first, and the database schema should fall out of that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem I 've ran into with most OSS ( and even paid ) ecommerce systems is they dont understand basic accounting nor do they understand how a business operates.Take zen-cart for example .
When a customer cancels an order , what is the proper thing to do ?
Well , I 'll tell you what * is n't * the proper thing... DELETE THE ORDER FROM THE DATABASE !
! The second I found out that the way to hide/cancel an order was deleting it from the database , I ran away from zen-cart .
You never delete an order... what if you got audited ?
What if the customer wanted to actually go ahead with the order ?
What if you wanted to get a report on the number of canceled orders ?
You ca n't if you delete the damn thing from the database !
! Really , the problem is these products had their interface designed to suit their database schema .
In reality , the design and workflow should come first , and the database schema should fall out of that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem I've ran into with most OSS (and even paid) ecommerce systems is they dont understand basic accounting nor do they understand how a business operates.Take zen-cart for example.
When a customer cancels an order, what is the proper thing to do?
Well, I'll tell you what *isn't* the proper thing... DELETE THE ORDER FROM THE DATABASE!
!The second I found out that the way to hide/cancel an order was deleting it from the database, I ran away from zen-cart.
You never delete an order... what if you got audited?
What if the customer wanted to actually go ahead with the order?
What if you wanted to get a report on the number of canceled orders?
You can't if you delete the damn thing from the database!
!Really, the problem is these products had their interface designed to suit their database schema.
In reality, the design and workflow should come first, and the database schema should fall out of that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229668</id>
	<title>Re:Why the fuck is this binspam on /.?</title>
	<author>trash eighty</author>
	<datestamp>1257194820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>well its a Book Review so they are like talking about a book</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>well its a Book Review so they are like talking about a book</tokentext>
<sentencetext>well its a Book Review so they are like talking about a book</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229516</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230012</id>
	<title>Re:Magneto</title>
	<author>dalleboy</author>
	<datestamp>1257153360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Magneto Beginner's Guide</p><p>
1. Be born with the X-Gene<br>
2. Kill all humans<br>
3. ???<br>
4. Profit!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Magneto Beginner 's Guide 1 .
Be born with the X-Gene 2 .
Kill all humans 3 .
? ? ? 4 .
Profit !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Magneto Beginner's Guide
1.
Be born with the X-Gene
2.
Kill all humans
3.
???
4.
Profit!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229410</id>
	<title>biznat3h</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257193560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>confi8min&g the</htmltext>
<tokenext>confi8min&amp;g the</tokentext>
<sentencetext>confi8min&amp;g the</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229878</id>
	<title>Re:Magento isn't exactly perfect either</title>
	<author>Maudib</author>
	<datestamp>1257152760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"to the point where a lot of people speculate that the Magento team wants it to be like that, so when your store takes off you are more likely to hire them to speed things up."</p><p>Which is hilarious when you look at the "Enterprise" sites that Varien has done to date. They are slow, ugly and often broken. Varien does not do great work. Thats probably why they are partnering with Optaros, but it remains to be seen if those carrion eaters can do any better.</p><p>$10,000 a server license. It might be worth it if you need SAP integration, but I don't believe for a second that the "Enterprise" version is written any better then the community. Some people doubt that it even exists, that in reality its probably just community edition + over-priced consulting services.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" to the point where a lot of people speculate that the Magento team wants it to be like that , so when your store takes off you are more likely to hire them to speed things up .
" Which is hilarious when you look at the " Enterprise " sites that Varien has done to date .
They are slow , ugly and often broken .
Varien does not do great work .
Thats probably why they are partnering with Optaros , but it remains to be seen if those carrion eaters can do any better. $ 10,000 a server license .
It might be worth it if you need SAP integration , but I do n't believe for a second that the " Enterprise " version is written any better then the community .
Some people doubt that it even exists , that in reality its probably just community edition + over-priced consulting services .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"to the point where a lot of people speculate that the Magento team wants it to be like that, so when your store takes off you are more likely to hire them to speed things up.
"Which is hilarious when you look at the "Enterprise" sites that Varien has done to date.
They are slow, ugly and often broken.
Varien does not do great work.
Thats probably why they are partnering with Optaros, but it remains to be seen if those carrion eaters can do any better.$10,000 a server license.
It might be worth it if you need SAP integration, but I don't believe for a second that the "Enterprise" version is written any better then the community.
Some people doubt that it even exists, that in reality its probably just community edition + over-priced consulting services.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229340</id>
	<title>Re:Magneto</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257193320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, I was really hoping to learn how to master magnetism.  I am severely disappointed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , I was really hoping to learn how to master magnetism .
I am severely disappointed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, I was really hoping to learn how to master magnetism.
I am severely disappointed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232588</id>
	<title>WAY TO MUCH</title>
	<author>FlyingGuy</author>
	<datestamp>1257171240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A project with no documentation and the comments stripped out, Qel Surpise!</p><p>A shopping cart should be simple and small.  It should be unobtrusive.</p><p>What it should do is give you the calls to display, review, modify, fill your shopping cart, check out and take a payment.</p><p>Nothing more, nothing less.</p><p>At that point you can integrate it into whatever web site your building using your styling and markup.</p><p>This ain't brain surgery, it is a database. and the most complex thing should be a bit of javascript to update the totals.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A project with no documentation and the comments stripped out , Qel Surpise ! A shopping cart should be simple and small .
It should be unobtrusive.What it should do is give you the calls to display , review , modify , fill your shopping cart , check out and take a payment.Nothing more , nothing less.At that point you can integrate it into whatever web site your building using your styling and markup.This ai n't brain surgery , it is a database .
and the most complex thing should be a bit of javascript to update the totals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A project with no documentation and the comments stripped out, Qel Surpise!A shopping cart should be simple and small.
It should be unobtrusive.What it should do is give you the calls to display, review, modify, fill your shopping cart, check out and take a payment.Nothing more, nothing less.At that point you can integrate it into whatever web site your building using your styling and markup.This ain't brain surgery, it is a database.
and the most complex thing should be a bit of javascript to update the totals.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30233374</id>
	<title>Re:Magento is nice, but...</title>
	<author>specific\_pacific</author>
	<datestamp>1257177900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Zend, behind the framework to which it uses and a great PHP advocate, also wishes to advocate it's optimised LAMP servers. They have a cache demo to speed up pages on the server side so the "instant" loading is possible.</p><p>Optimisation has always been an issue but on shared hosting it's alright as long as you setup some subdomains make-do CDN so you can load your images.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Zend , behind the framework to which it uses and a great PHP advocate , also wishes to advocate it 's optimised LAMP servers .
They have a cache demo to speed up pages on the server side so the " instant " loading is possible.Optimisation has always been an issue but on shared hosting it 's alright as long as you setup some subdomains make-do CDN so you can load your images .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Zend, behind the framework to which it uses and a great PHP advocate, also wishes to advocate it's optimised LAMP servers.
They have a cache demo to speed up pages on the server side so the "instant" loading is possible.Optimisation has always been an issue but on shared hosting it's alright as long as you setup some subdomains make-do CDN so you can load your images.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232364</id>
	<title>Re:Magneto Christmas gift.shoes,handbags,ugg ect..</title>
	<author>coolforsale126</author>
	<datestamp>1257169500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.coolforsale.com/" title="coolforsale.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.coolforsale.com/</a> [coolforsale.com] Dear ladies and gentlemen Hello, In order to meet Christmas, Site launched Christmas spree, welcome new and old customers come to participate in the there are unexpected surprises, look forward to your arrival. Only this site have this treatmentOur goal is "Best quality, Best reputation , Best services". Your satisfaction is our main pursue. You can find the best products from us, meeting your different needs.Ladies and Gentlemen weicome to my coolforsale.com.Here,there are the most fashion products . Pass by but don't miss it.Select your favorite clothing! Welcome to come next time ! Thank you!http://www.coolforsale.com/productlist.asp?id=s76 (Tracksuit w) ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket, Air jordan(1-24)shoes $33 Nike shox(R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3) $35 Handbags(Coach lv fendi d&amp;g) $35 Tshirts (Polo<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,ed hardy,lacoste) $16 free shipping Thanks!!! Advance wish you a merry Christmas.</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.coolforsale.com/ [ coolforsale.com ] Dear ladies and gentlemen Hello , In order to meet Christmas , Site launched Christmas spree , welcome new and old customers come to participate in the there are unexpected surprises , look forward to your arrival .
Only this site have this treatmentOur goal is " Best quality , Best reputation , Best services " .
Your satisfaction is our main pursue .
You can find the best products from us , meeting your different needs.Ladies and Gentlemen weicome to my coolforsale.com.Here,there are the most fashion products .
Pass by but do n't miss it.Select your favorite clothing !
Welcome to come next time !
Thank you ! http : //www.coolforsale.com/productlist.asp ? id = s76 ( Tracksuit w ) ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket , Air jordan ( 1-24 ) shoes $ 33 Nike shox ( R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3 ) $ 35 Handbags ( Coach lv fendi d&amp;g ) $ 35 Tshirts ( Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste ) $ 16 free shipping Thanks ! ! !
Advance wish you a merry Christmas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.coolforsale.com/ [coolforsale.com] Dear ladies and gentlemen Hello, In order to meet Christmas, Site launched Christmas spree, welcome new and old customers come to participate in the there are unexpected surprises, look forward to your arrival.
Only this site have this treatmentOur goal is "Best quality, Best reputation , Best services".
Your satisfaction is our main pursue.
You can find the best products from us, meeting your different needs.Ladies and Gentlemen weicome to my coolforsale.com.Here,there are the most fashion products .
Pass by but don't miss it.Select your favorite clothing!
Welcome to come next time !
Thank you!http://www.coolforsale.com/productlist.asp?id=s76 (Tracksuit w) ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket, Air jordan(1-24)shoes $33 Nike shox(R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3) $35 Handbags(Coach lv fendi d&amp;g) $35 Tshirts (Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste) $16 free shipping Thanks!!!
Advance wish you a merry Christmas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229958</id>
	<title>Re:Not the book the Communtity needs...</title>
	<author>RAMMS+EIN</author>
	<datestamp>1257153120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>``The problem with Magento is not that it is too complex for a non-technical user. The problem with Magento is that is not properly documented or commented for technical users.''</p><p>So, some smart guy decided to step into the void and improve the situation, but, rather than writing documentation that is distributed with the software, he wrote a book that people have to pay for.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>` ` The problem with Magento is not that it is too complex for a non-technical user .
The problem with Magento is that is not properly documented or commented for technical users .
''So , some smart guy decided to step into the void and improve the situation , but , rather than writing documentation that is distributed with the software , he wrote a book that people have to pay for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>``The problem with Magento is not that it is too complex for a non-technical user.
The problem with Magento is that is not properly documented or commented for technical users.
''So, some smart guy decided to step into the void and improve the situation, but, rather than writing documentation that is distributed with the software, he wrote a book that people have to pay for.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229420</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231506</id>
	<title>Re:Don't know too much about Magento, but do know</title>
	<author>Falc0n</author>
	<datestamp>1257162660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Thats just false.
<br> <br>
If you're a small company selling some products, ubercart and drupal is for you. <a href="http://www.ubercart.org/site?sort=desc&amp;order=User+Ranking" title="ubercart.org" rel="nofollow">You can see a good list of sites using it now.</a> [ubercart.org]
<br> <br>
the ONLY time I'd recommend someone spending money to develop their own ecommerce system is if they have something extremely customized--$million+ sites... NewEgg for example... and even then, the amount of money and time to make a 'custom' cart system could be cut by spending that time on extending the drupal and ubercart frameworks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thats just false .
If you 're a small company selling some products , ubercart and drupal is for you .
You can see a good list of sites using it now .
[ ubercart.org ] the ONLY time I 'd recommend someone spending money to develop their own ecommerce system is if they have something extremely customized-- $ million + sites... NewEgg for example... and even then , the amount of money and time to make a 'custom ' cart system could be cut by spending that time on extending the drupal and ubercart frameworks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thats just false.
If you're a small company selling some products, ubercart and drupal is for you.
You can see a good list of sites using it now.
[ubercart.org]
 
the ONLY time I'd recommend someone spending money to develop their own ecommerce system is if they have something extremely customized--$million+ sites... NewEgg for example... and even then, the amount of money and time to make a 'custom' cart system could be cut by spending that time on extending the drupal and ubercart frameworks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232732</id>
	<title>Re:Good luck with that!</title>
	<author>k0lee</author>
	<datestamp>1257172380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I help manage a website based on Magento and whenever I want to hear the sound of crickets, I post a technical question to its user forum.  If it hasn't already been asked and answered, you're pretty much screwed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I help manage a website based on Magento and whenever I want to hear the sound of crickets , I post a technical question to its user forum .
If it has n't already been asked and answered , you 're pretty much screwed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I help manage a website based on Magento and whenever I want to hear the sound of crickets, I post a technical question to its user forum.
If it hasn't already been asked and answered, you're pretty much screwed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229526</id>
	<title>Does it handle</title>
	<author>SnarfQuest</author>
	<datestamp>1257194160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does it handle getting your share of Obama's stash? He's giving away all that money from his own stash, so you should have an easy way of handling that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does it handle getting your share of Obama 's stash ?
He 's giving away all that money from his own stash , so you should have an easy way of handling that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does it handle getting your share of Obama's stash?
He's giving away all that money from his own stash, so you should have an easy way of handling that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230572</id>
	<title>Magento is better than OSCommerce, but...</title>
	<author>clintcan</author>
	<datestamp>1257156300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Having made an ecommerce site from magento itself, I'd say that although it's way better than OSCommerce, it's slow, and very poorly documented.  It is as if Varien wanted the poor documentation to happen so that you can hire them for helping set up your site.

It is slow because it practically uses EAV for most of it's data.  To fetch manually for example, an order, you'd have to parse through different tables to find out what that order exactly is.  And the whole system is one big object extension of the Zend framework!  Adding APC and memcache makes it work better and faster, but it is still slow.

Also, the templating system is daunting, to say the least, for beginners.

Also, one big peeve of mine is that it has limited order statuses - shipped, processing, complete, among others, and so far, I haven't found a way to add this reliably (although you can add it to a drop down box in the admin panel, what happens is that you cannot call it through a class)

But once you get the hang on it (mostly, since looking at the huge amount of code without comments is very very overwhelming), it can be very flexible.  So far, we've made a system to let it contact a fulfillment company for deliveries at the start of every day, and let the fulfillment company update us when those orders were delivered and shipped out.  It mostly works too, and it's fairly automated, that we've just left it alone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Having made an ecommerce site from magento itself , I 'd say that although it 's way better than OSCommerce , it 's slow , and very poorly documented .
It is as if Varien wanted the poor documentation to happen so that you can hire them for helping set up your site .
It is slow because it practically uses EAV for most of it 's data .
To fetch manually for example , an order , you 'd have to parse through different tables to find out what that order exactly is .
And the whole system is one big object extension of the Zend framework !
Adding APC and memcache makes it work better and faster , but it is still slow .
Also , the templating system is daunting , to say the least , for beginners .
Also , one big peeve of mine is that it has limited order statuses - shipped , processing , complete , among others , and so far , I have n't found a way to add this reliably ( although you can add it to a drop down box in the admin panel , what happens is that you can not call it through a class ) But once you get the hang on it ( mostly , since looking at the huge amount of code without comments is very very overwhelming ) , it can be very flexible .
So far , we 've made a system to let it contact a fulfillment company for deliveries at the start of every day , and let the fulfillment company update us when those orders were delivered and shipped out .
It mostly works too , and it 's fairly automated , that we 've just left it alone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having made an ecommerce site from magento itself, I'd say that although it's way better than OSCommerce, it's slow, and very poorly documented.
It is as if Varien wanted the poor documentation to happen so that you can hire them for helping set up your site.
It is slow because it practically uses EAV for most of it's data.
To fetch manually for example, an order, you'd have to parse through different tables to find out what that order exactly is.
And the whole system is one big object extension of the Zend framework!
Adding APC and memcache makes it work better and faster, but it is still slow.
Also, the templating system is daunting, to say the least, for beginners.
Also, one big peeve of mine is that it has limited order statuses - shipped, processing, complete, among others, and so far, I haven't found a way to add this reliably (although you can add it to a drop down box in the admin panel, what happens is that you cannot call it through a class)

But once you get the hang on it (mostly, since looking at the huge amount of code without comments is very very overwhelming), it can be very flexible.
So far, we've made a system to let it contact a fulfillment company for deliveries at the start of every day, and let the fulfillment company update us when those orders were delivered and shipped out.
It mostly works too, and it's fairly automated, that we've just left it alone.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231462</id>
	<title>Drupal + Ubercart</title>
	<author>Falc0n</author>
	<datestamp>1257162360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A big piece missing from Magento is the content management portion. There has been talk about integrating Magento as a third party add-on to drupal, but its so different in how it handles content, that it doesn't really work.
<br> <br>
A decent alternative is Ubercart and Drupal. Ubercart, while not the best example of -good- drupal code, it is getting better, and d7uc is planning on bringing much of the code to drupal standards. One big plus about ubercart is its extensibility. Despite it being a bloated shopping system (built for a mom-and-pop shop, similar to magento), it is easy to override functions and get it to do what you want. Ubercart is also used extensively on major websites, almost everything that uses drupal 6 and ecommerce.
<br> <br>
In the dark days of ubercart, or when I'm banging my head on a problem that cannot be easily solved with it, I've looked to magento, but then came running back.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A big piece missing from Magento is the content management portion .
There has been talk about integrating Magento as a third party add-on to drupal , but its so different in how it handles content , that it does n't really work .
A decent alternative is Ubercart and Drupal .
Ubercart , while not the best example of -good- drupal code , it is getting better , and d7uc is planning on bringing much of the code to drupal standards .
One big plus about ubercart is its extensibility .
Despite it being a bloated shopping system ( built for a mom-and-pop shop , similar to magento ) , it is easy to override functions and get it to do what you want .
Ubercart is also used extensively on major websites , almost everything that uses drupal 6 and ecommerce .
In the dark days of ubercart , or when I 'm banging my head on a problem that can not be easily solved with it , I 've looked to magento , but then came running back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A big piece missing from Magento is the content management portion.
There has been talk about integrating Magento as a third party add-on to drupal, but its so different in how it handles content, that it doesn't really work.
A decent alternative is Ubercart and Drupal.
Ubercart, while not the best example of -good- drupal code, it is getting better, and d7uc is planning on bringing much of the code to drupal standards.
One big plus about ubercart is its extensibility.
Despite it being a bloated shopping system (built for a mom-and-pop shop, similar to magento), it is easy to override functions and get it to do what you want.
Ubercart is also used extensively on major websites, almost everything that uses drupal 6 and ecommerce.
In the dark days of ubercart, or when I'm banging my head on a problem that cannot be easily solved with it, I've looked to magento, but then came running back.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234906</id>
	<title>Re:Having worked with Magento...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259229300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>osCommerce is also a piece of junk. Having to maintain osCommerce websites is a nightmare!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>osCommerce is also a piece of junk .
Having to maintain osCommerce websites is a nightmare !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>osCommerce is also a piece of junk.
Having to maintain osCommerce websites is a nightmare!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229516</id>
	<title>Why the fuck is this binspam on /.?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257194100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This isn't news. This is fucking marketing. As good as this software may or may not be, this is not newsworthy, and is nothing more than shameless promotion of a product.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't news .
This is fucking marketing .
As good as this software may or may not be , this is not newsworthy , and is nothing more than shameless promotion of a product .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't news.
This is fucking marketing.
As good as this software may or may not be, this is not newsworthy, and is nothing more than shameless promotion of a product.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231602</id>
	<title>Re:Magento is nice, but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257163440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You think it's slow locally, you should try it on shared hosting. The architecture is not ideal for performance and seems pitched to businesses that would have tuned dedicated servers in their budget. I keep seeing it compared to oscommerce since they are both open source, but Magento will not perform properly for the business owner with a small store running on a shared hosting setup. A lot of features out of the box and good for theming, but slow as molasses and gonna be very pricey to extend features. Nice of Varien to share how not to architect an enterprise solution, but I suspect that Magento will mostly be used by their client base and online businesses that have a small budget and don't mind / don't track cart abandonment because product pages take too long to load.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You think it 's slow locally , you should try it on shared hosting .
The architecture is not ideal for performance and seems pitched to businesses that would have tuned dedicated servers in their budget .
I keep seeing it compared to oscommerce since they are both open source , but Magento will not perform properly for the business owner with a small store running on a shared hosting setup .
A lot of features out of the box and good for theming , but slow as molasses and gon na be very pricey to extend features .
Nice of Varien to share how not to architect an enterprise solution , but I suspect that Magento will mostly be used by their client base and online businesses that have a small budget and do n't mind / do n't track cart abandonment because product pages take too long to load .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You think it's slow locally, you should try it on shared hosting.
The architecture is not ideal for performance and seems pitched to businesses that would have tuned dedicated servers in their budget.
I keep seeing it compared to oscommerce since they are both open source, but Magento will not perform properly for the business owner with a small store running on a shared hosting setup.
A lot of features out of the box and good for theming, but slow as molasses and gonna be very pricey to extend features.
Nice of Varien to share how not to architect an enterprise solution, but I suspect that Magento will mostly be used by their client base and online businesses that have a small budget and don't mind / don't track cart abandonment because product pages take too long to load.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230488</id>
	<title>Reminds me of ATG</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257155820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This reminds me of ATG's eCommerce platform, or rather their entire product stack for that matter. Bad architecture == bad foundation == maintenance headache == bloated servers == non performant</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This reminds me of ATG 's eCommerce platform , or rather their entire product stack for that matter .
Bad architecture = = bad foundation = = maintenance headache = = bloated servers = = non performant</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This reminds me of ATG's eCommerce platform, or rather their entire product stack for that matter.
Bad architecture == bad foundation == maintenance headache == bloated servers == non performant</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229272</id>
	<title>Magento is nice, but...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257193020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Magento is a nice system, but it's BIG. It's not bloated. Just it's architecture makes it really slow. With one item in db, default configuration and served locally it shouldn't really take almost two seconds to refresh a page.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Magento is a nice system , but it 's BIG .
It 's not bloated .
Just it 's architecture makes it really slow .
With one item in db , default configuration and served locally it should n't really take almost two seconds to refresh a page .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Magento is a nice system, but it's BIG.
It's not bloated.
Just it's architecture makes it really slow.
With one item in db, default configuration and served locally it shouldn't really take almost two seconds to refresh a page.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204</id>
	<title>Magneto</title>
	<author>Lunoria</author>
	<datestamp>1257192720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I read the title as Magneto Beginner's Guide.

I must read too many comic books.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I read the title as Magneto Beginner 's Guide .
I must read too many comic books .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read the title as Magneto Beginner's Guide.
I must read too many comic books.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229286</id>
	<title>Good luck with that!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257193020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>As an e-commerce business owner, and a former web developer, I just tried Magento based on a suggestion from my designer.  It's not for regular people.  There's no formal documentation (literally... none), and like with many OSS projects, "community" support is non-existent.  Magento might be a neat project for a large team of professional developers working on e-commerce for a company with very deep pockets, but I don't think that a beginner of any kind should touch it.

I'd rather have less functionality, but more function.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As an e-commerce business owner , and a former web developer , I just tried Magento based on a suggestion from my designer .
It 's not for regular people .
There 's no formal documentation ( literally... none ) , and like with many OSS projects , " community " support is non-existent .
Magento might be a neat project for a large team of professional developers working on e-commerce for a company with very deep pockets , but I do n't think that a beginner of any kind should touch it .
I 'd rather have less functionality , but more function .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As an e-commerce business owner, and a former web developer, I just tried Magento based on a suggestion from my designer.
It's not for regular people.
There's no formal documentation (literally... none), and like with many OSS projects, "community" support is non-existent.
Magento might be a neat project for a large team of professional developers working on e-commerce for a company with very deep pockets, but I don't think that a beginner of any kind should touch it.
I'd rather have less functionality, but more function.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229544</id>
	<title>Re:osCommerce</title>
	<author>Fallingcow</author>
	<datestamp>1257194220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>osCommerce is a piece of shit.</p><p>It's the code equivalent of <i>Finnegan's Wake</i>, but without any hint of genius at work in its production.</p><p>Broken architecture, ugly-ass code, no templating system to speak of (a side effect of the broken architecture) etc.  STAY AWAY.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>osCommerce is a piece of shit.It 's the code equivalent of Finnegan 's Wake , but without any hint of genius at work in its production.Broken architecture , ugly-ass code , no templating system to speak of ( a side effect of the broken architecture ) etc .
STAY AWAY .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>osCommerce is a piece of shit.It's the code equivalent of Finnegan's Wake, but without any hint of genius at work in its production.Broken architecture, ugly-ass code, no templating system to speak of (a side effect of the broken architecture) etc.
STAY AWAY.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229222</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231696</id>
	<title>it's what makers of magento should have done</title>
	<author>dialbat</author>
	<datestamp>1257164220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've read it, and this book is exactly what the makers of Magento should have done.<br>I don't think it's worth the money, maybe 5$.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've read it , and this book is exactly what the makers of Magento should have done.I do n't think it 's worth the money , maybe 5 $ .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've read it, and this book is exactly what the makers of Magento should have done.I don't think it's worth the money, maybe 5$.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30242958</id>
	<title>Re:Why the fuck is this binspam on /.?</title>
	<author>OrangeCatholic</author>
	<datestamp>1259261640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah but everybody pointed out how bad the product is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah but everybody pointed out how bad the product is : D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah but everybody pointed out how bad the product is :D</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229516</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229300</id>
	<title>Are there still problems?</title>
	<author>elbiatcho1</author>
	<datestamp>1257193080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've tried this and it had some potential.
Very clean looks and easy to use backend, but it felt horrible performance-wise overall.

Also there are Paypal problems that seem to have been lingering for long time (retrieving response from PP and analysis, notifications).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've tried this and it had some potential .
Very clean looks and easy to use backend , but it felt horrible performance-wise overall .
Also there are Paypal problems that seem to have been lingering for long time ( retrieving response from PP and analysis , notifications ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've tried this and it had some potential.
Very clean looks and easy to use backend, but it felt horrible performance-wise overall.
Also there are Paypal problems that seem to have been lingering for long time (retrieving response from PP and analysis, notifications).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230076</id>
	<title>Re:Magneto</title>
	<author>chord.wav</author>
	<datestamp>1257153720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Chapter 1 - Holocaust surviving, bending concentration camp's steel bars<br>Chapter 2 - Learn how to hate humans, advanced steel bending<br>Chapter 3 - Mercury<br>Chapter 4 - Know your enemy, get a dorky helmet<br>Chapter 5 - Aluminum and Adamantium explained<br>Chapter 6 - Electromagnetic forces, negative uses<br>Chapter 7 - Improving your leadership skills<br>Chapter 8 - Chess, strategy and tactics<br>Apendix A - All about blue hot chicks</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Chapter 1 - Holocaust surviving , bending concentration camp 's steel barsChapter 2 - Learn how to hate humans , advanced steel bendingChapter 3 - MercuryChapter 4 - Know your enemy , get a dorky helmetChapter 5 - Aluminum and Adamantium explainedChapter 6 - Electromagnetic forces , negative usesChapter 7 - Improving your leadership skillsChapter 8 - Chess , strategy and tacticsApendix A - All about blue hot chicks</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Chapter 1 - Holocaust surviving, bending concentration camp's steel barsChapter 2 - Learn how to hate humans, advanced steel bendingChapter 3 - MercuryChapter 4 - Know your enemy, get a dorky helmetChapter 5 - Aluminum and Adamantium explainedChapter 6 - Electromagnetic forces, negative usesChapter 7 - Improving your leadership skillsChapter 8 - Chess, strategy and tacticsApendix A - All about blue hot chicks</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230276</id>
	<title>Re:Good luck with that!</title>
	<author>stuckinphp</author>
	<datestamp>1257154800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I just looked at the differences between community edition and enterprise edition.

What a joke. More functionality / customization ability in the drupal ecom module.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just looked at the differences between community edition and enterprise edition .
What a joke .
More functionality / customization ability in the drupal ecom module .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just looked at the differences between community edition and enterprise edition.
What a joke.
More functionality / customization ability in the drupal ecom module.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229524</id>
	<title>I wouldn't recommend Magento</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257194100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It has a great backend and tons of features. But.. it's difficult (damn near impossible) to skin. And the other huge problem is the AJAX multipage checkout. It just doesn't work for some users, and there's no alternative.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It has a great backend and tons of features .
But.. it 's difficult ( damn near impossible ) to skin .
And the other huge problem is the AJAX multipage checkout .
It just does n't work for some users , and there 's no alternative .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It has a great backend and tons of features.
But.. it's difficult (damn near impossible) to skin.
And the other huge problem is the AJAX multipage checkout.
It just doesn't work for some users, and there's no alternative.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231600</id>
	<title>Re:Magneto</title>
	<author>Rising Ape</author>
	<datestamp>1257163380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Huh, the first thing I thought of was <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto" title="wikipedia.org">this</a> [wikipedia.org].</p><p>Is a character in some comic really a more obvious reference for "magneto" than the actual device? That's slightly disheartening.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Huh , the first thing I thought of was this [ wikipedia.org ] .Is a character in some comic really a more obvious reference for " magneto " than the actual device ?
That 's slightly disheartening .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Huh, the first thing I thought of was this [wikipedia.org].Is a character in some comic really a more obvious reference for "magneto" than the actual device?
That's slightly disheartening.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_37</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232304
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230076
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231550
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30233374
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229272
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230012
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229816
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234938
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229286
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_35</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229980
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229544
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229222
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30242958
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229516
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230322
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229286
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229806
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229498
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229668
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229516
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230276
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229286
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234916
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229380
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231602
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229272
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230270
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229222
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232780
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229380
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_39</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234350
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230610
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229222
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230184
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229286
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229908
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229562
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234294
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231852
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229272
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229632
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229222
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229878
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229380
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231506
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234906
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231376
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230908
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_33</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231446
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230668
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230040
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232732
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229286
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_32</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231280
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30237586
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231852
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229272
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232990
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229562
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231310
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229222
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232364
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_38</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229970
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229958
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229420
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231600
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229864
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_25_1458202_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229340
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231012
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230668
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231446
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229222
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230270
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229544
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231310
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230610
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234350
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229632
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230904
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229604
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231506
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229816
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230040
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231280
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229980
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229864
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229562
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229908
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232990
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229380
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229878
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232780
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234916
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229272
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231852
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234294
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30237586
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231602
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30233374
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229420
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229958
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231376
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234906
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229286
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230322
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230276
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230184
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30234938
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232732
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229516
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229668
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30242958
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230094
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_25_1458202.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229204
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231550
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230908
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232364
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30231600
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229970
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230076
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229498
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229806
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30230012
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30232304
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_25_1458202.30229340
</commentlist>
</conversation>
