<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_24_2217208</id>
	<title>Brain Scans Used In Murder Sentencing</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1259064540000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>sciencehabit writes <i>"For what may be the first time, <a href="http://blogs.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2009/11/fmri-evidence-u.html">fMRI scans of brain activity have been used as evidence</a> in the sentencing phase of a murder trial. Defense lawyers for an Illinois man convicted of raping and killing a 10-year-old girl used the scans to argue that their client should be spared the death penalty because he has a brain disorder. Some experts say the scans are irrelevant because they were taken 20+ years after the crimes were committed. Others point out that the scans are only being considered because the sentencing phase of a trial has less stringent standards about evidence than those used to establish a defendant's innocence or guilt."</i> In the Illinois case, the fMRI defense didn't help the defendant, whom a jury sentenced to death.</htmltext>
<tokenext>sciencehabit writes " For what may be the first time , fMRI scans of brain activity have been used as evidence in the sentencing phase of a murder trial .
Defense lawyers for an Illinois man convicted of raping and killing a 10-year-old girl used the scans to argue that their client should be spared the death penalty because he has a brain disorder .
Some experts say the scans are irrelevant because they were taken 20 + years after the crimes were committed .
Others point out that the scans are only being considered because the sentencing phase of a trial has less stringent standards about evidence than those used to establish a defendant 's innocence or guilt .
" In the Illinois case , the fMRI defense did n't help the defendant , whom a jury sentenced to death .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sciencehabit writes "For what may be the first time, fMRI scans of brain activity have been used as evidence in the sentencing phase of a murder trial.
Defense lawyers for an Illinois man convicted of raping and killing a 10-year-old girl used the scans to argue that their client should be spared the death penalty because he has a brain disorder.
Some experts say the scans are irrelevant because they were taken 20+ years after the crimes were committed.
Others point out that the scans are only being considered because the sentencing phase of a trial has less stringent standards about evidence than those used to establish a defendant's innocence or guilt.
" In the Illinois case, the fMRI defense didn't help the defendant, whom a jury sentenced to death.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30223176</id>
	<title>If it can be cured then great</title>
	<author>KalvinB</author>
	<datestamp>1259088840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Curing the disease is just another form of rehabilitation.  However, it should never be looked at as way to excuse behavior.  Humans have the unique ability to act contrary to their natural impulses.  The person may have a disease but that does not excuse their inability to restrain themselves and they still must suffer the consequences for their actions.  A person is responsible for determining their own triggers and learning to deal with them.</p><p>The advantage to a curable disease is that the person can more easily be "rehabilitated." Remove the tumor or whatever and the person can be confident they will not have to fight so hard to restrain themselves from doing the bad behavior in the future.</p><p>The only crime that should not bother with any form of rehabilitation is murder.  Society should not care why you did it (as long as it was not accidental or self defense), only that you did and we can't risk more lives by hoping that you're "cured."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Curing the disease is just another form of rehabilitation .
However , it should never be looked at as way to excuse behavior .
Humans have the unique ability to act contrary to their natural impulses .
The person may have a disease but that does not excuse their inability to restrain themselves and they still must suffer the consequences for their actions .
A person is responsible for determining their own triggers and learning to deal with them.The advantage to a curable disease is that the person can more easily be " rehabilitated .
" Remove the tumor or whatever and the person can be confident they will not have to fight so hard to restrain themselves from doing the bad behavior in the future.The only crime that should not bother with any form of rehabilitation is murder .
Society should not care why you did it ( as long as it was not accidental or self defense ) , only that you did and we ca n't risk more lives by hoping that you 're " cured .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Curing the disease is just another form of rehabilitation.
However, it should never be looked at as way to excuse behavior.
Humans have the unique ability to act contrary to their natural impulses.
The person may have a disease but that does not excuse their inability to restrain themselves and they still must suffer the consequences for their actions.
A person is responsible for determining their own triggers and learning to deal with them.The advantage to a curable disease is that the person can more easily be "rehabilitated.
" Remove the tumor or whatever and the person can be confident they will not have to fight so hard to restrain themselves from doing the bad behavior in the future.The only crime that should not bother with any form of rehabilitation is murder.
Society should not care why you did it (as long as it was not accidental or self defense), only that you did and we can't risk more lives by hoping that you're "cured.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30220958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30236464</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>realityimpaired</author>
	<datestamp>1259246820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It was bothersome, but I was warned that this was what he was getting to when he said "the guy's father was an axe murderer, no really, an actual axe murderer". That kind of set up the expectation that I might hear a story about somebody being killed with an axe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It was bothersome , but I was warned that this was what he was getting to when he said " the guy 's father was an axe murderer , no really , an actual axe murderer " .
That kind of set up the expectation that I might hear a story about somebody being killed with an axe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was bothersome, but I was warned that this was what he was getting to when he said "the guy's father was an axe murderer, no really, an actual axe murderer".
That kind of set up the expectation that I might hear a story about somebody being killed with an axe.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30236308</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30223242</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>t\_ban</author>
	<datestamp>1259090220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the ultimate goal of eugenics is a good life for everyone (the genetic strengthening of the race being just an intermediate step), then we're already doing that by helping the disabled lead better lives.</p><p>Or did you mean better lives <i>only for those who have no perceptible genetic flaw,</i> after eliminating those who do?</p><p>If we can use technology to improve the lives of <i>everyone</i>, and not only the fortunate, why is that not an acceptable solution to you?</p><p>By your logic, cancer research should stop, because all it does is improve the lives of those who will then pass on a dangerous gene to the next generation.</p><p>What about myopia? Hearing problems? Allergies?</p><p>In fact, isn't the whole of medical science a sheer waste, because in the absence of modern medicine, eugenics shall be vastly accelerated, and within a few generations we shall have the cream of the crop.</p><p>You see where your argument is going, and do you want to go there?</p><p>Life is vast and mysterious. Do not presume to know what <i>should</i> be. No one knows that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the ultimate goal of eugenics is a good life for everyone ( the genetic strengthening of the race being just an intermediate step ) , then we 're already doing that by helping the disabled lead better lives.Or did you mean better lives only for those who have no perceptible genetic flaw , after eliminating those who do ? If we can use technology to improve the lives of everyone , and not only the fortunate , why is that not an acceptable solution to you ? By your logic , cancer research should stop , because all it does is improve the lives of those who will then pass on a dangerous gene to the next generation.What about myopia ?
Hearing problems ?
Allergies ? In fact , is n't the whole of medical science a sheer waste , because in the absence of modern medicine , eugenics shall be vastly accelerated , and within a few generations we shall have the cream of the crop.You see where your argument is going , and do you want to go there ? Life is vast and mysterious .
Do not presume to know what should be .
No one knows that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the ultimate goal of eugenics is a good life for everyone (the genetic strengthening of the race being just an intermediate step), then we're already doing that by helping the disabled lead better lives.Or did you mean better lives only for those who have no perceptible genetic flaw, after eliminating those who do?If we can use technology to improve the lives of everyone, and not only the fortunate, why is that not an acceptable solution to you?By your logic, cancer research should stop, because all it does is improve the lives of those who will then pass on a dangerous gene to the next generation.What about myopia?
Hearing problems?
Allergies?In fact, isn't the whole of medical science a sheer waste, because in the absence of modern medicine, eugenics shall be vastly accelerated, and within a few generations we shall have the cream of the crop.You see where your argument is going, and do you want to go there?Life is vast and mysterious.
Do not presume to know what should be.
No one knows that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221138</id>
	<title>Re:OK slashdot.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259069280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Err, what if he's thinking about Chewbacca? Might even get him acquitted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Err , what if he 's thinking about Chewbacca ?
Might even get him acquitted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Err, what if he's thinking about Chewbacca?
Might even get him acquitted.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30220956</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221218</id>
	<title>Re:Capital Punishment</title>
	<author>Shakrai</author>
	<datestamp>1259069700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I just don't think I have the stomach for it.</p></div><p>We wouldn't need capital punishment if we'd lock violent criminals up for the rest of their miserable lives.  The vast majority of first-time murderers already had violent criminal records.  Seems to me that if we kept them behind bars where they belong that we'd have a much lower murder rate.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just do n't think I have the stomach for it.We would n't need capital punishment if we 'd lock violent criminals up for the rest of their miserable lives .
The vast majority of first-time murderers already had violent criminal records .
Seems to me that if we kept them behind bars where they belong that we 'd have a much lower murder rate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just don't think I have the stomach for it.We wouldn't need capital punishment if we'd lock violent criminals up for the rest of their miserable lives.
The vast majority of first-time murderers already had violent criminal records.
Seems to me that if we kept them behind bars where they belong that we'd have a much lower murder rate.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221060</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30224594</id>
	<title>Re:OK slashdot.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257164520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, Chewy is getting moded to the top,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. is getting pretty sad</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , Chewy is getting moded to the top , / .
is getting pretty sad</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, Chewy is getting moded to the top, /.
is getting pretty sad</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222452</id>
	<title>Re:OK slashdot.</title>
	<author>Requiem18th</author>
	<datestamp>1259080200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was thinking about the game...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was thinking about the game.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was thinking about the game...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222980</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>Kjella</author>
	<datestamp>1259086200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny, I never thought that... That people can inherit traits of their parents, I find just as natural as a child inheriting height, skin color, eye color, hair color, facial characteristics, genetic diseases and whatnot from their parents. Even the relatively homogeneous group of children I grew up with, sharing our school time and most of our spare time, we were always very different people and not just because of social groupings. But all of us, like pretty much everyone that don't belong in a mental institution, were in control of our actions. Even the most bubbly over-the-top happy and cheerful extrovert could button it down for a solemn funeral.</p><p>Some people are impulsive, aggressive and low on empathy by nature, but I don't believe people are compelled to act out those impulses. I've wanted to beat the crap out of many, but never did. I've lusted for many things, but never stolen them. I've desired many pretty women, but never raped any of them. I don't think people could function without basic impulse control, not without ending up as mental three year olds. And that's why I also think it's always a choice, they choose to go with what they want to do rather than what they know is right. Lord help us if "I blame my DNA" becomes as much of an excuse as "I blame society".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny , I never thought that... That people can inherit traits of their parents , I find just as natural as a child inheriting height , skin color , eye color , hair color , facial characteristics , genetic diseases and whatnot from their parents .
Even the relatively homogeneous group of children I grew up with , sharing our school time and most of our spare time , we were always very different people and not just because of social groupings .
But all of us , like pretty much everyone that do n't belong in a mental institution , were in control of our actions .
Even the most bubbly over-the-top happy and cheerful extrovert could button it down for a solemn funeral.Some people are impulsive , aggressive and low on empathy by nature , but I do n't believe people are compelled to act out those impulses .
I 've wanted to beat the crap out of many , but never did .
I 've lusted for many things , but never stolen them .
I 've desired many pretty women , but never raped any of them .
I do n't think people could function without basic impulse control , not without ending up as mental three year olds .
And that 's why I also think it 's always a choice , they choose to go with what they want to do rather than what they know is right .
Lord help us if " I blame my DNA " becomes as much of an excuse as " I blame society " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny, I never thought that... That people can inherit traits of their parents, I find just as natural as a child inheriting height, skin color, eye color, hair color, facial characteristics, genetic diseases and whatnot from their parents.
Even the relatively homogeneous group of children I grew up with, sharing our school time and most of our spare time, we were always very different people and not just because of social groupings.
But all of us, like pretty much everyone that don't belong in a mental institution, were in control of our actions.
Even the most bubbly over-the-top happy and cheerful extrovert could button it down for a solemn funeral.Some people are impulsive, aggressive and low on empathy by nature, but I don't believe people are compelled to act out those impulses.
I've wanted to beat the crap out of many, but never did.
I've lusted for many things, but never stolen them.
I've desired many pretty women, but never raped any of them.
I don't think people could function without basic impulse control, not without ending up as mental three year olds.
And that's why I also think it's always a choice, they choose to go with what they want to do rather than what they know is right.
Lord help us if "I blame my DNA" becomes as much of an excuse as "I blame society".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30223868</id>
	<title>Re:So, you still have the death penalty...</title>
	<author>tjstork</author>
	<datestamp>1257155940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>So, you still have the death penalty.......the human life is the highest good there is so nobody - NOBODY (including the state) has the right to decide that someone deserves to die - even if that guy killed a lot of people.</i></p><p>We barbarians would note that we would extend the franchise of life to the unborn, whereas you blissfully ignore that.  So you can take your "civilization" and shove it up your ass.  I mean, you would keep a convicted murderer alive but rip a baby out of its mother and flush it.  Wow, you guys have some priorities.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , you still have the death penalty.......the human life is the highest good there is so nobody - NOBODY ( including the state ) has the right to decide that someone deserves to die - even if that guy killed a lot of people.We barbarians would note that we would extend the franchise of life to the unborn , whereas you blissfully ignore that .
So you can take your " civilization " and shove it up your ass .
I mean , you would keep a convicted murderer alive but rip a baby out of its mother and flush it .
Wow , you guys have some priorities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, you still have the death penalty.......the human life is the highest good there is so nobody - NOBODY (including the state) has the right to decide that someone deserves to die - even if that guy killed a lot of people.We barbarians would note that we would extend the franchise of life to the unborn, whereas you blissfully ignore that.
So you can take your "civilization" and shove it up your ass.
I mean, you would keep a convicted murderer alive but rip a baby out of its mother and flush it.
Wow, you guys have some priorities.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221862</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30225586</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1257175260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's the flip side of what I've been saying about bleeding heart conservatives who are adamantly for the death penalty. When I die it will most likely be horrible - from heart disease, cancer (a truly <a href="http://slashdot.org/~mcgrew/journal/222855" title="slashdot.org">horrible way to die,)</a> [slashdot.org] alsheimers (shudder), ALS, accident... Meanwhile someone who rapes and tortures a child to death is painlessly "put to sleep" like a beloved pet.</p><p>I say keep him locked up for life, let him think about what he's done, not knowing when or how he's going to die. I don't mind my tax money going for keeping murderers locked up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's the flip side of what I 've been saying about bleeding heart conservatives who are adamantly for the death penalty .
When I die it will most likely be horrible - from heart disease , cancer ( a truly horrible way to die , ) [ slashdot.org ] alsheimers ( shudder ) , ALS , accident... Meanwhile someone who rapes and tortures a child to death is painlessly " put to sleep " like a beloved pet.I say keep him locked up for life , let him think about what he 's done , not knowing when or how he 's going to die .
I do n't mind my tax money going for keeping murderers locked up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's the flip side of what I've been saying about bleeding heart conservatives who are adamantly for the death penalty.
When I die it will most likely be horrible - from heart disease, cancer (a truly horrible way to die,) [slashdot.org] alsheimers (shudder), ALS, accident... Meanwhile someone who rapes and tortures a child to death is painlessly "put to sleep" like a beloved pet.I say keep him locked up for life, let him think about what he's done, not knowing when or how he's going to die.
I don't mind my tax money going for keeping murderers locked up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30220958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221060</id>
	<title>Capital Punishment</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259068860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sure stops re-offending, not sure about a deterrent effect but I could buy it. I just don't think I have the stomach for it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure stops re-offending , not sure about a deterrent effect but I could buy it .
I just do n't think I have the stomach for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure stops re-offending, not sure about a deterrent effect but I could buy it.
I just don't think I have the stomach for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222148</id>
	<title>Brian Dugan is scum and deserves to die</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259077260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The rape and murder he got the death penalty for is not his first - he was already in prison for two other murders.  Also, he plead guilty to the rape and murder of this child, so he won't have the same appeals process. He is the poster boy for the death penalty.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The rape and murder he got the death penalty for is not his first - he was already in prison for two other murders .
Also , he plead guilty to the rape and murder of this child , so he wo n't have the same appeals process .
He is the poster boy for the death penalty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The rape and murder he got the death penalty for is not his first - he was already in prison for two other murders.
Also, he plead guilty to the rape and murder of this child, so he won't have the same appeals process.
He is the poster boy for the death penalty.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30225782</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>realityimpaired</author>
	<datestamp>1257176580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>for fuck's sake, warn me when you're going to tell a story like the one about the cat. good god. you could have just said he killed the cat. I did not need that image.</p><p>Tara</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>for fuck 's sake , warn me when you 're going to tell a story like the one about the cat .
good god .
you could have just said he killed the cat .
I did not need that image.Tara</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for fuck's sake, warn me when you're going to tell a story like the one about the cat.
good god.
you could have just said he killed the cat.
I did not need that image.Tara</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30224982</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30220984</id>
	<title>glenbeky?</title>
	<author>nefertitian</author>
	<datestamp>1259068380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Glen Beck, Is that You?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Glen Beck , Is that You ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Glen Beck, Is that You?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30225490</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1257174780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I saw <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18189-can-you-be-blamed-for-sleepwalking-crimes.html" title="newscientist.com">this</a> [newscientist.com] yesterday:</p><blockquote><div><p>A man strangles his wife while dreaming about fighting off intruders in his sleep. Does that make him mad, bad or innocent? Recent research is helping to unpick these issues, and may help reveal who, if anyone, bears responsibility in such cases.</p><p>Last week, British man Brian Thomas appeared in court on a murder charge after strangling his wife as they slept in their camper van. The prosecution withdrew the charges after three psychiatrists testified that locking him up would serve no useful purpose. The judge said that Thomas bore no responsibility for his actions.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I saw this [ newscientist.com ] yesterday : A man strangles his wife while dreaming about fighting off intruders in his sleep .
Does that make him mad , bad or innocent ?
Recent research is helping to unpick these issues , and may help reveal who , if anyone , bears responsibility in such cases.Last week , British man Brian Thomas appeared in court on a murder charge after strangling his wife as they slept in their camper van .
The prosecution withdrew the charges after three psychiatrists testified that locking him up would serve no useful purpose .
The judge said that Thomas bore no responsibility for his actions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I saw this [newscientist.com] yesterday:A man strangles his wife while dreaming about fighting off intruders in his sleep.
Does that make him mad, bad or innocent?
Recent research is helping to unpick these issues, and may help reveal who, if anyone, bears responsibility in such cases.Last week, British man Brian Thomas appeared in court on a murder charge after strangling his wife as they slept in their camper van.
The prosecution withdrew the charges after three psychiatrists testified that locking him up would serve no useful purpose.
The judge said that Thomas bore no responsibility for his actions.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221556</id>
	<title>Re:Capital Punishment</title>
	<author>jd</author>
	<datestamp>1259072460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you kept all the violent and really evil, sick, twisted people locked up, who would we have for lawyers? Politicians? Accountants? CEOs?!</p><p>The Huge Manatee!</p><p>Please, please, think of the scumbags!</p><p>(Seriously, I don't have any objection to people who need to be locked up being locked up. I do have an objection to that being the sole purpose of the legal system - people can change and it's fair to give them the means and opportunity even if they stay incarcerated. It also seems reasonable to give those who will be released the motive to try an alternative. Punishment alone never works and resentment is a great way to encourage people to think of other ways of being crappy to others.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you kept all the violent and really evil , sick , twisted people locked up , who would we have for lawyers ?
Politicians ? Accountants ?
CEOs ? ! The Huge Manatee ! Please , please , think of the scumbags !
( Seriously , I do n't have any objection to people who need to be locked up being locked up .
I do have an objection to that being the sole purpose of the legal system - people can change and it 's fair to give them the means and opportunity even if they stay incarcerated .
It also seems reasonable to give those who will be released the motive to try an alternative .
Punishment alone never works and resentment is a great way to encourage people to think of other ways of being crappy to others .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you kept all the violent and really evil, sick, twisted people locked up, who would we have for lawyers?
Politicians? Accountants?
CEOs?!The Huge Manatee!Please, please, think of the scumbags!
(Seriously, I don't have any objection to people who need to be locked up being locked up.
I do have an objection to that being the sole purpose of the legal system - people can change and it's fair to give them the means and opportunity even if they stay incarcerated.
It also seems reasonable to give those who will be released the motive to try an alternative.
Punishment alone never works and resentment is a great way to encourage people to think of other ways of being crappy to others.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221218</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222282</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259078580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Depends on your definition of "weaken."  After all, our greatest asset is our brains.  I mean we have already given up our biological armor (soft bodies, no shell), weapons (no claws, weak teeth), etc, and traded that for a bigger brain that can make all sort of tools.  See, we use tools as more flexible enhancements that let us do all sorts of things.  We have very little innate talents other than our brains.</p><p>So yeah, maybe some day we will be these weak deformed blobs but have incredible tools that let us do anything we need.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Depends on your definition of " weaken .
" After all , our greatest asset is our brains .
I mean we have already given up our biological armor ( soft bodies , no shell ) , weapons ( no claws , weak teeth ) , etc , and traded that for a bigger brain that can make all sort of tools .
See , we use tools as more flexible enhancements that let us do all sorts of things .
We have very little innate talents other than our brains.So yeah , maybe some day we will be these weak deformed blobs but have incredible tools that let us do anything we need .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Depends on your definition of "weaken.
"  After all, our greatest asset is our brains.
I mean we have already given up our biological armor (soft bodies, no shell), weapons (no claws, weak teeth), etc, and traded that for a bigger brain that can make all sort of tools.
See, we use tools as more flexible enhancements that let us do all sorts of things.
We have very little innate talents other than our brains.So yeah, maybe some day we will be these weak deformed blobs but have incredible tools that let us do anything we need.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221972</id>
	<title>Turn About, Fairly</title>
	<author>DynaSoar</author>
	<datestamp>1259075760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As much as I dislike fMRI research due to the technical problems compounding with far too little understanding of the technology and errors on the part of far too many researchers, this is one topic on which it has some merit. There's been enough MRI (including the f- variant) work done on limbic systems and disorders that the body of results approaches validation. In the absence of deep brain trauma (there being none on this case) one can assume the structural abnormalities to have pre-existed, making the 1983-2009 time span less problematic.</p><p>However, although psychopaths tend to show certain differences, showing those differences does not mean the person is a psychopath. As TFA states there are other tests that have been used for longer that are more reliable. In fact, skin conductance is very good. Psychopaths (and habitual criminals without that specific diagnosis) show a rapid rise in skin conductance to violent imagery, but return to baselines much more quickly than 'normal' persons. Easy, cheap, and replicated year after year.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As much as I dislike fMRI research due to the technical problems compounding with far too little understanding of the technology and errors on the part of far too many researchers , this is one topic on which it has some merit .
There 's been enough MRI ( including the f- variant ) work done on limbic systems and disorders that the body of results approaches validation .
In the absence of deep brain trauma ( there being none on this case ) one can assume the structural abnormalities to have pre-existed , making the 1983-2009 time span less problematic.However , although psychopaths tend to show certain differences , showing those differences does not mean the person is a psychopath .
As TFA states there are other tests that have been used for longer that are more reliable .
In fact , skin conductance is very good .
Psychopaths ( and habitual criminals without that specific diagnosis ) show a rapid rise in skin conductance to violent imagery , but return to baselines much more quickly than 'normal ' persons .
Easy , cheap , and replicated year after year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As much as I dislike fMRI research due to the technical problems compounding with far too little understanding of the technology and errors on the part of far too many researchers, this is one topic on which it has some merit.
There's been enough MRI (including the f- variant) work done on limbic systems and disorders that the body of results approaches validation.
In the absence of deep brain trauma (there being none on this case) one can assume the structural abnormalities to have pre-existed, making the 1983-2009 time span less problematic.However, although psychopaths tend to show certain differences, showing those differences does not mean the person is a psychopath.
As TFA states there are other tests that have been used for longer that are more reliable.
In fact, skin conductance is very good.
Psychopaths (and habitual criminals without that specific diagnosis) show a rapid rise in skin conductance to violent imagery, but return to baselines much more quickly than 'normal' persons.
Easy, cheap, and replicated year after year.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30226198</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1257178740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But that doesn't explain Amy and Tami, who I mentioned in my slashdot journal yesterday. Here's the relevant part (no need to read the whole journal)</p><blockquote><div><p>The difference between Amy and Tami are striking. Tami's about ten years older than Amy, who was raised under horrible conditions; she was the result of two teenagers tripping on acid in the snow on high school property. She was shuffled from one foster home to another; she's told me some terrible horror stories, which she overcame, went to college and got a nursing degree and license. She lost her license and children after her ex-husband beat her so badly he went to prison for felony assault and she started drinking, and is vainly trying to get off the booze and back to work.</p><p>Tami was brought up in a rich family who owned show horses. I've seen photos of her as a teenager riding the horses at state fairs. She went on to become a liar and a thief and a parasite.</p></div></blockquote><p>Amy's mother is a schitzophrenic homeless drug addict, her biological father died a couple of years ago from MSRA. From what she's said, he was as bad off as her mother. Aside from her alcohol problem and clinical depression, Amy's completely normal.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But that does n't explain Amy and Tami , who I mentioned in my slashdot journal yesterday .
Here 's the relevant part ( no need to read the whole journal ) The difference between Amy and Tami are striking .
Tami 's about ten years older than Amy , who was raised under horrible conditions ; she was the result of two teenagers tripping on acid in the snow on high school property .
She was shuffled from one foster home to another ; she 's told me some terrible horror stories , which she overcame , went to college and got a nursing degree and license .
She lost her license and children after her ex-husband beat her so badly he went to prison for felony assault and she started drinking , and is vainly trying to get off the booze and back to work.Tami was brought up in a rich family who owned show horses .
I 've seen photos of her as a teenager riding the horses at state fairs .
She went on to become a liar and a thief and a parasite.Amy 's mother is a schitzophrenic homeless drug addict , her biological father died a couple of years ago from MSRA .
From what she 's said , he was as bad off as her mother .
Aside from her alcohol problem and clinical depression , Amy 's completely normal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But that doesn't explain Amy and Tami, who I mentioned in my slashdot journal yesterday.
Here's the relevant part (no need to read the whole journal)The difference between Amy and Tami are striking.
Tami's about ten years older than Amy, who was raised under horrible conditions; she was the result of two teenagers tripping on acid in the snow on high school property.
She was shuffled from one foster home to another; she's told me some terrible horror stories, which she overcame, went to college and got a nursing degree and license.
She lost her license and children after her ex-husband beat her so badly he went to prison for felony assault and she started drinking, and is vainly trying to get off the booze and back to work.Tami was brought up in a rich family who owned show horses.
I've seen photos of her as a teenager riding the horses at state fairs.
She went on to become a liar and a thief and a parasite.Amy's mother is a schitzophrenic homeless drug addict, her biological father died a couple of years ago from MSRA.
From what she's said, he was as bad off as her mother.
Aside from her alcohol problem and clinical depression, Amy's completely normal.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222736</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>ZosX</author>
	<datestamp>1259083080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a 10 year old daughter. He played the game of life wrong. Hang him high!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a 10 year old daughter .
He played the game of life wrong .
Hang him high !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a 10 year old daughter.
He played the game of life wrong.
Hang him high!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30220958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30241670</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259246940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, I mean check out that cripple Hawking, what's he ever done? And what of president Obama - his skin is the wrong colour entirely! I agree eugenics hasn't done enough for the world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , I mean check out that cripple Hawking , what 's he ever done ?
And what of president Obama - his skin is the wrong colour entirely !
I agree eugenics has n't done enough for the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, I mean check out that cripple Hawking, what's he ever done?
And what of president Obama - his skin is the wrong colour entirely!
I agree eugenics hasn't done enough for the world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30226836</id>
	<title>We kill rabid dogs...</title>
	<author>TheDarkMinstrel</author>
	<datestamp>1257181740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the scarring was permanent and inoperable, what's the point? Are we going to lock him up and pay for his care until somebody can fix it? Why bother? The evidence supports that he is irrepairably broken.<br>
<br>
We destroy mad dogs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the scarring was permanent and inoperable , what 's the point ?
Are we going to lock him up and pay for his care until somebody can fix it ?
Why bother ?
The evidence supports that he is irrepairably broken .
We destroy mad dogs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the scarring was permanent and inoperable, what's the point?
Are we going to lock him up and pay for his care until somebody can fix it?
Why bother?
The evidence supports that he is irrepairably broken.
We destroy mad dogs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222248</id>
	<title>An intelligent person would End Death Penalties</title>
	<author>Tibia1</author>
	<datestamp>1259078340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Within 5-10 years our forensics will be so advanced that we will be able to know who committed an extremely high percentage of all crime. Therefore we shouldn't be killing anyone now seeing as they will be able to be proven guilty or innocent before they've spent too much possibly unwarranted time in prison.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Within 5-10 years our forensics will be so advanced that we will be able to know who committed an extremely high percentage of all crime .
Therefore we should n't be killing anyone now seeing as they will be able to be proven guilty or innocent before they 've spent too much possibly unwarranted time in prison .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Within 5-10 years our forensics will be so advanced that we will be able to know who committed an extremely high percentage of all crime.
Therefore we shouldn't be killing anyone now seeing as they will be able to be proven guilty or innocent before they've spent too much possibly unwarranted time in prison.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30224982</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>hairyfeet</author>
	<datestamp>1257170400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think I may be able to help you "see" how it might not be as cut and dried as you make it, from an example of one of Rick's earlier "mishaps". One day I got to listen to him and his parents fight (he was about 12 IIRC) over an incident earlier that day. Apparently he had walked around a corner and bumped a neighbor's cat, which had become startled and scratched him. He (very calmly from what I remember) reached down, picked up the neighbor's cat, and bashed its head against a tree in a single blow powerful enough to splatter its brains all over the tree.</p><p>Now the "funny" part, which I always remember about the incident, is nobody was ever able to explain why he shouldn't do that in a way he could understand. To him it was very logical, cat scratched him, kill the cat, cat won't scratch him no more. He simply couldn't understand <strong>why</strong> everyone made a big deal about that, or why he should care that the neighbor loved the cat, or anything of the sort. His mind simply didn't work that way. No empathy, no feelings for others, no concept of how his actions would affect others or have repercussions, no concept at all of these things. It was like trying to explain to an alien what it was like to live as a human being-he could understand the words, but they simply didn't have any meaning to him. You might as well have been speaking German for all he understood.</p><p>And THAT is what makes him different from you, me, and a good portion of the planet. You talk about having "self control" but if you simply don't understand WHY you should have self control then really, how good would your self control be? Some call it a soul, some a conscience, whatever it is that makes a person see that other living beings have value and that feelings other than you own at THAT moment have meaning and are just as real, whatever that part was, he just didn't have it. So I don't see how you could say it is a cop out, although I could see how some might try to abuse it, but it really wouldn't be hard to look at a history of someone like Rick and see a pattern. For him the only <em>real</em> person is him. Only his emotions are valid, the concept of caring about how others feel is simply an alien thought process to him.</p><p>

And finally to show this wasn't some "act" that he used only when it was in his favor, he once flipped a bug convertible and broke his neck. Rather than wait for help he crawled out of the wreck <strong>held his head up by pulling his hair with his hand</strong> and walked to the dope dealer's house, who had the good sense to call an ambulance. Why did he do that? Because he wanted some dope. It never occurred to him that he could be paralyzed, or that by doing so he was causing damage that ended up with him being in a halo for twice as long as it otherwise would have been, to him crawling out and walking to where the dope was with a broken neck was just as logical as could be. That was just how he brain worked.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think I may be able to help you " see " how it might not be as cut and dried as you make it , from an example of one of Rick 's earlier " mishaps " .
One day I got to listen to him and his parents fight ( he was about 12 IIRC ) over an incident earlier that day .
Apparently he had walked around a corner and bumped a neighbor 's cat , which had become startled and scratched him .
He ( very calmly from what I remember ) reached down , picked up the neighbor 's cat , and bashed its head against a tree in a single blow powerful enough to splatter its brains all over the tree.Now the " funny " part , which I always remember about the incident , is nobody was ever able to explain why he should n't do that in a way he could understand .
To him it was very logical , cat scratched him , kill the cat , cat wo n't scratch him no more .
He simply could n't understand why everyone made a big deal about that , or why he should care that the neighbor loved the cat , or anything of the sort .
His mind simply did n't work that way .
No empathy , no feelings for others , no concept of how his actions would affect others or have repercussions , no concept at all of these things .
It was like trying to explain to an alien what it was like to live as a human being-he could understand the words , but they simply did n't have any meaning to him .
You might as well have been speaking German for all he understood.And THAT is what makes him different from you , me , and a good portion of the planet .
You talk about having " self control " but if you simply do n't understand WHY you should have self control then really , how good would your self control be ?
Some call it a soul , some a conscience , whatever it is that makes a person see that other living beings have value and that feelings other than you own at THAT moment have meaning and are just as real , whatever that part was , he just did n't have it .
So I do n't see how you could say it is a cop out , although I could see how some might try to abuse it , but it really would n't be hard to look at a history of someone like Rick and see a pattern .
For him the only real person is him .
Only his emotions are valid , the concept of caring about how others feel is simply an alien thought process to him .
And finally to show this was n't some " act " that he used only when it was in his favor , he once flipped a bug convertible and broke his neck .
Rather than wait for help he crawled out of the wreck held his head up by pulling his hair with his hand and walked to the dope dealer 's house , who had the good sense to call an ambulance .
Why did he do that ?
Because he wanted some dope .
It never occurred to him that he could be paralyzed , or that by doing so he was causing damage that ended up with him being in a halo for twice as long as it otherwise would have been , to him crawling out and walking to where the dope was with a broken neck was just as logical as could be .
That was just how he brain worked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think I may be able to help you "see" how it might not be as cut and dried as you make it, from an example of one of Rick's earlier "mishaps".
One day I got to listen to him and his parents fight (he was about 12 IIRC) over an incident earlier that day.
Apparently he had walked around a corner and bumped a neighbor's cat, which had become startled and scratched him.
He (very calmly from what I remember) reached down, picked up the neighbor's cat, and bashed its head against a tree in a single blow powerful enough to splatter its brains all over the tree.Now the "funny" part, which I always remember about the incident, is nobody was ever able to explain why he shouldn't do that in a way he could understand.
To him it was very logical, cat scratched him, kill the cat, cat won't scratch him no more.
He simply couldn't understand why everyone made a big deal about that, or why he should care that the neighbor loved the cat, or anything of the sort.
His mind simply didn't work that way.
No empathy, no feelings for others, no concept of how his actions would affect others or have repercussions, no concept at all of these things.
It was like trying to explain to an alien what it was like to live as a human being-he could understand the words, but they simply didn't have any meaning to him.
You might as well have been speaking German for all he understood.And THAT is what makes him different from you, me, and a good portion of the planet.
You talk about having "self control" but if you simply don't understand WHY you should have self control then really, how good would your self control be?
Some call it a soul, some a conscience, whatever it is that makes a person see that other living beings have value and that feelings other than you own at THAT moment have meaning and are just as real, whatever that part was, he just didn't have it.
So I don't see how you could say it is a cop out, although I could see how some might try to abuse it, but it really wouldn't be hard to look at a history of someone like Rick and see a pattern.
For him the only real person is him.
Only his emotions are valid, the concept of caring about how others feel is simply an alien thought process to him.
And finally to show this wasn't some "act" that he used only when it was in his favor, he once flipped a bug convertible and broke his neck.
Rather than wait for help he crawled out of the wreck held his head up by pulling his hair with his hand and walked to the dope dealer's house, who had the good sense to call an ambulance.
Why did he do that?
Because he wanted some dope.
It never occurred to him that he could be paralyzed, or that by doing so he was causing damage that ended up with him being in a halo for twice as long as it otherwise would have been, to him crawling out and walking to where the dope was with a broken neck was just as logical as could be.
That was just how he brain worked.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222980</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221764</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1259073960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are some specific cases where brain abnormality evidence seems like it would be very valuable to the defendant. <a href="http://archneur.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/60/3/437" title="ama-assn.org">This guy</a> [ama-assn.org] for instance. Initially pretty normal. Gradually develops increasingly problematic sexual misbehavior. Just before being sent to jail, goes to the ER with a headache and neurological symptoms. They MRI him and chop out a huge tumor pressing on his frontal lobe. Sexual misbehavior stops.<br> <br>

Some time later, it starts up again. They check, and the tumor has partially regrown. Tumor is again resected, and patient is again fine.<br> <br>

In a case like that, there seems to be a compelling argument to be made that the defendant's behavior is a medical problem rather than a criminal one(and a treatable medical problem, not an "well, enjoy the secure ward for the rest of your life" medical problem). If, though, your plea is basically "But, but, this MRI shows exactly the part of my brain that makes me a violent shitbag..." That seems fairly useless to you(though it might be helpful in the long term, if it helps us figure out how to stop producing people like you). Obviously, with sufficient scientific knowledge, it will be possible to identify the anatomic basis of your behavior. So what?</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are some specific cases where brain abnormality evidence seems like it would be very valuable to the defendant .
This guy [ ama-assn.org ] for instance .
Initially pretty normal .
Gradually develops increasingly problematic sexual misbehavior .
Just before being sent to jail , goes to the ER with a headache and neurological symptoms .
They MRI him and chop out a huge tumor pressing on his frontal lobe .
Sexual misbehavior stops .
Some time later , it starts up again .
They check , and the tumor has partially regrown .
Tumor is again resected , and patient is again fine .
In a case like that , there seems to be a compelling argument to be made that the defendant 's behavior is a medical problem rather than a criminal one ( and a treatable medical problem , not an " well , enjoy the secure ward for the rest of your life " medical problem ) .
If , though , your plea is basically " But , but , this MRI shows exactly the part of my brain that makes me a violent shitbag... " That seems fairly useless to you ( though it might be helpful in the long term , if it helps us figure out how to stop producing people like you ) .
Obviously , with sufficient scientific knowledge , it will be possible to identify the anatomic basis of your behavior .
So what ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are some specific cases where brain abnormality evidence seems like it would be very valuable to the defendant.
This guy [ama-assn.org] for instance.
Initially pretty normal.
Gradually develops increasingly problematic sexual misbehavior.
Just before being sent to jail, goes to the ER with a headache and neurological symptoms.
They MRI him and chop out a huge tumor pressing on his frontal lobe.
Sexual misbehavior stops.
Some time later, it starts up again.
They check, and the tumor has partially regrown.
Tumor is again resected, and patient is again fine.
In a case like that, there seems to be a compelling argument to be made that the defendant's behavior is a medical problem rather than a criminal one(and a treatable medical problem, not an "well, enjoy the secure ward for the rest of your life" medical problem).
If, though, your plea is basically "But, but, this MRI shows exactly the part of my brain that makes me a violent shitbag..." That seems fairly useless to you(though it might be helpful in the long term, if it helps us figure out how to stop producing people like you).
Obviously, with sufficient scientific knowledge, it will be possible to identify the anatomic basis of your behavior.
So what?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30220958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30225538</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>HuguesT</author>
	<datestamp>1257175020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A new species, the Nazi Eugenist Troll,</p><p>Actually now we have reliable and safe in-utero genetic and physical tests, combined with legal and safe abortion, so the incidence of Down syndrome, spina bifida etc is lower than ever in Western societies, except perhaps bigoted locales where abortion is not legal. I personally know several couples who aborted for these reasons.</p><p>In addition people with (say) Down syndrome who are actually born may contribute their "faulty" gene only if they do reproduce. Now we have safe and effective, long-term contraceptives.</p><p>Also it happens that quite often in spite of their genetic "defects" Down syndrome children are still loved by their parents and siblings. In the name of what irrational dogma are you going to put down someone like that who is doing no harm ?</p><p>Further everybody has genetic defects, you do too (that is quite obvious in fact given how callous you sound). Shall we put you down now because you might come down with some form of disease one day ? Even I would not advocate it.</p><p>Eugenics is a very slippery road.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A new species , the Nazi Eugenist Troll,Actually now we have reliable and safe in-utero genetic and physical tests , combined with legal and safe abortion , so the incidence of Down syndrome , spina bifida etc is lower than ever in Western societies , except perhaps bigoted locales where abortion is not legal .
I personally know several couples who aborted for these reasons.In addition people with ( say ) Down syndrome who are actually born may contribute their " faulty " gene only if they do reproduce .
Now we have safe and effective , long-term contraceptives.Also it happens that quite often in spite of their genetic " defects " Down syndrome children are still loved by their parents and siblings .
In the name of what irrational dogma are you going to put down someone like that who is doing no harm ? Further everybody has genetic defects , you do too ( that is quite obvious in fact given how callous you sound ) .
Shall we put you down now because you might come down with some form of disease one day ?
Even I would not advocate it.Eugenics is a very slippery road .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A new species, the Nazi Eugenist Troll,Actually now we have reliable and safe in-utero genetic and physical tests, combined with legal and safe abortion, so the incidence of Down syndrome, spina bifida etc is lower than ever in Western societies, except perhaps bigoted locales where abortion is not legal.
I personally know several couples who aborted for these reasons.In addition people with (say) Down syndrome who are actually born may contribute their "faulty" gene only if they do reproduce.
Now we have safe and effective, long-term contraceptives.Also it happens that quite often in spite of their genetic "defects" Down syndrome children are still loved by their parents and siblings.
In the name of what irrational dogma are you going to put down someone like that who is doing no harm ?Further everybody has genetic defects, you do too (that is quite obvious in fact given how callous you sound).
Shall we put you down now because you might come down with some form of disease one day ?
Even I would not advocate it.Eugenics is a very slippery road.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30223820</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>big\_paul76</author>
	<datestamp>1257155400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Stephen J. Gould said something about how any evidence that suggests nurture over nature, could usually be used just as well to suggest a nature over nurture.</p><p>It turns out that nature vs nurture is a false dichotomy. For example, there have been genes identified in rats that are ONLY turned on by specific maternal behaviors.</p><p>So genes matter, but environment is at least as important. Without the environment that "turns on" a gene, nothing happens.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Stephen J. Gould said something about how any evidence that suggests nurture over nature , could usually be used just as well to suggest a nature over nurture.It turns out that nature vs nurture is a false dichotomy .
For example , there have been genes identified in rats that are ONLY turned on by specific maternal behaviors.So genes matter , but environment is at least as important .
Without the environment that " turns on " a gene , nothing happens .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stephen J. Gould said something about how any evidence that suggests nurture over nature, could usually be used just as well to suggest a nature over nurture.It turns out that nature vs nurture is a false dichotomy.
For example, there have been genes identified in rats that are ONLY turned on by specific maternal behaviors.So genes matter, but environment is at least as important.
Without the environment that "turns on" a gene, nothing happens.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222330</id>
	<title>Re:So, you still have the death penalty...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259078880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>fyi: the civilized world thinks you are bloodthirsty barbaric slaughterers... (which we also think for your gun-laws and your armed robbery of helpless countries)</p></div><p>A mere sixty years ago your people were the bloodthirsty barbaric slaughterers.  Come to think of it your people had a habit of committing armed robbery of helpless countries.  Like a plague of locusts you descended on neighboring countries, raping and pillaging as you went, slaughtering those who were considered subhuman and impure before stealing the gold from their teeth.</p><p>Thank goodness my ancestors left your little shithole of a country a century before.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>fyi : the civilized world thinks you are bloodthirsty barbaric slaughterers... ( which we also think for your gun-laws and your armed robbery of helpless countries ) A mere sixty years ago your people were the bloodthirsty barbaric slaughterers .
Come to think of it your people had a habit of committing armed robbery of helpless countries .
Like a plague of locusts you descended on neighboring countries , raping and pillaging as you went , slaughtering those who were considered subhuman and impure before stealing the gold from their teeth.Thank goodness my ancestors left your little shithole of a country a century before .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>fyi: the civilized world thinks you are bloodthirsty barbaric slaughterers... (which we also think for your gun-laws and your armed robbery of helpless countries)A mere sixty years ago your people were the bloodthirsty barbaric slaughterers.
Come to think of it your people had a habit of committing armed robbery of helpless countries.
Like a plague of locusts you descended on neighboring countries, raping and pillaging as you went, slaughtering those who were considered subhuman and impure before stealing the gold from their teeth.Thank goodness my ancestors left your little shithole of a country a century before.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221862</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222570</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259081340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am not disagreeing, but if we follow that train of thought we wouldn't have people like Steven Hawking making the contributions he does.  He may be alive but certainly he would be marginalized....  Part of our survival as a (human) race is making the scientific leaps people like him make.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am not disagreeing , but if we follow that train of thought we would n't have people like Steven Hawking making the contributions he does .
He may be alive but certainly he would be marginalized.... Part of our survival as a ( human ) race is making the scientific leaps people like him make .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am not disagreeing, but if we follow that train of thought we wouldn't have people like Steven Hawking making the contributions he does.
He may be alive but certainly he would be marginalized....  Part of our survival as a (human) race is making the scientific leaps people like him make.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30224668</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257165780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whatever, my parents are 2 prof's and 2 Masters, and I did not turn out so well, didn't even finish high school, so may be they have bad genes?, nonsense, my grandfather lived to 92 and the other to 90 nonsense, genetics play a roll but I have not seen any convincing evidence that genetic determine behavior I am living proof<br>Otherwise it would be rich and perfect</p><p>Just because your cousin was a destructive retard does not mean that you can determine anti social behavior did we figure it out for the banker's that have destroyed the world economy ?<br>did they torture cats ? I don't know but probably they went to Harvard and tortured all of the people of the F*** world,<br>Psychopathy is endemic and it isn't a DNA problem it's a people problem, I have not murdered or raped anyone not because of my genes but because my parents where not total scumbags</p><p>Theft rape and murder is the norm in western society what F@@@*** planet have you been living on?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whatever , my parents are 2 prof 's and 2 Masters , and I did not turn out so well , did n't even finish high school , so may be they have bad genes ? , nonsense , my grandfather lived to 92 and the other to 90 nonsense , genetics play a roll but I have not seen any convincing evidence that genetic determine behavior I am living proofOtherwise it would be rich and perfectJust because your cousin was a destructive retard does not mean that you can determine anti social behavior did we figure it out for the banker 's that have destroyed the world economy ? did they torture cats ?
I do n't know but probably they went to Harvard and tortured all of the people of the F * * * world,Psychopathy is endemic and it is n't a DNA problem it 's a people problem , I have not murdered or raped anyone not because of my genes but because my parents where not total scumbagsTheft rape and murder is the norm in western society what F @ @ @ * * * planet have you been living on ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whatever, my parents are 2 prof's and 2 Masters, and I did not turn out so well, didn't even finish high school, so may be they have bad genes?, nonsense, my grandfather lived to 92 and the other to 90 nonsense, genetics play a roll but I have not seen any convincing evidence that genetic determine behavior I am living proofOtherwise it would be rich and perfectJust because your cousin was a destructive retard does not mean that you can determine anti social behavior did we figure it out for the banker's that have destroyed the world economy ?did they torture cats ?
I don't know but probably they went to Harvard and tortured all of the people of the F*** world,Psychopathy is endemic and it isn't a DNA problem it's a people problem, I have not murdered or raped anyone not because of my genes but because my parents where not total scumbagsTheft rape and murder is the norm in western society what F@@@*** planet have you been living on?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222928</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>xero314</author>
	<datestamp>1259085360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If this fool is defective, then those defective genes should be flushed from the gene pool.</p></div><p>But who is supposed to determine what is and what is not defective? And who is to determine what intermediary steps will lead to detriment or benefit? Had Neanderthal's employed eugenics would Homo Sapiens exist?
</p><p> It takes many many generations to determine if a certain variation is beneficial to the species. Sometimes it takes variations of detrimental variations to finally come to a beneficial variation. Eugenics only perpetuations the current state or a specific evolutionary path chosen by those practicing eugenics.
</p><p> Now if anyone was up for it I would love to see some one carry out an experiment where one group of people, lets say a couple thousand, practiced eugenics, and another group did not.  Then say 100k years from now we see which one is showing more beneficial variations, and then again a million years from now.
</p><p> Just imagine if Stephen Hawking had been victim to eugenics.  But I guess we don't really need his contributions to science of quantum gravity. And that's not to mention the multitude of convicted criminals that have upon release contributed highly to society.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If this fool is defective , then those defective genes should be flushed from the gene pool.But who is supposed to determine what is and what is not defective ?
And who is to determine what intermediary steps will lead to detriment or benefit ?
Had Neanderthal 's employed eugenics would Homo Sapiens exist ?
It takes many many generations to determine if a certain variation is beneficial to the species .
Sometimes it takes variations of detrimental variations to finally come to a beneficial variation .
Eugenics only perpetuations the current state or a specific evolutionary path chosen by those practicing eugenics .
Now if anyone was up for it I would love to see some one carry out an experiment where one group of people , lets say a couple thousand , practiced eugenics , and another group did not .
Then say 100k years from now we see which one is showing more beneficial variations , and then again a million years from now .
Just imagine if Stephen Hawking had been victim to eugenics .
But I guess we do n't really need his contributions to science of quantum gravity .
And that 's not to mention the multitude of convicted criminals that have upon release contributed highly to society .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this fool is defective, then those defective genes should be flushed from the gene pool.But who is supposed to determine what is and what is not defective?
And who is to determine what intermediary steps will lead to detriment or benefit?
Had Neanderthal's employed eugenics would Homo Sapiens exist?
It takes many many generations to determine if a certain variation is beneficial to the species.
Sometimes it takes variations of detrimental variations to finally come to a beneficial variation.
Eugenics only perpetuations the current state or a specific evolutionary path chosen by those practicing eugenics.
Now if anyone was up for it I would love to see some one carry out an experiment where one group of people, lets say a couple thousand, practiced eugenics, and another group did not.
Then say 100k years from now we see which one is showing more beneficial variations, and then again a million years from now.
Just imagine if Stephen Hawking had been victim to eugenics.
But I guess we don't really need his contributions to science of quantum gravity.
And that's not to mention the multitude of convicted criminals that have upon release contributed highly to society.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221862</id>
	<title>So, you still have the death penalty...</title>
	<author>AlgorithMan</author>
	<datestamp>1259074800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, you still have the death penalty...<br>
fyi: the civilized world thinks you are bloodthirsty barbaric slaughterers... (which we also think for your gun-laws and your armed robbery of helpless countries)<br> <br>

the human life is the highest good there is so nobody - NOBODY (including the state) has the right to decide that someone deserves to die - even if that guy killed a lot of people.<br> <br>

I know this will cost me karma, but that can't stop me from telling the truth...</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , you still have the death penalty.. . fyi : the civilized world thinks you are bloodthirsty barbaric slaughterers... ( which we also think for your gun-laws and your armed robbery of helpless countries ) the human life is the highest good there is so nobody - NOBODY ( including the state ) has the right to decide that someone deserves to die - even if that guy killed a lot of people .
I know this will cost me karma , but that ca n't stop me from telling the truth.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, you still have the death penalty...
fyi: the civilized world thinks you are bloodthirsty barbaric slaughterers... (which we also think for your gun-laws and your armed robbery of helpless countries) 

the human life is the highest good there is so nobody - NOBODY (including the state) has the right to decide that someone deserves to die - even if that guy killed a lot of people.
I know this will cost me karma, but that can't stop me from telling the truth...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221048</id>
	<title>In that case</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259068740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Keep him/her locked up for life then. After all, we do have "medical" evidence that <b>proves</b> they were and continue to be a threat to society. Under no circumstances should they be allows to mingle with the rest of society out in the open.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Keep him/her locked up for life then .
After all , we do have " medical " evidence that proves they were and continue to be a threat to society .
Under no circumstances should they be allows to mingle with the rest of society out in the open .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Keep him/her locked up for life then.
After all, we do have "medical" evidence that proves they were and continue to be a threat to society.
Under no circumstances should they be allows to mingle with the rest of society out in the open.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30223576</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>StackedCrooked</author>
	<datestamp>1257194880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I remember reading this story before on slashdot.

I think its plausible that there is such a thing as a "bad gene". However we should fight the temptation to jump too quickly to a conclusion. In the end this is just one story, which would be considered "anecdotal" for scientific point of view.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember reading this story before on slashdot .
I think its plausible that there is such a thing as a " bad gene " .
However we should fight the temptation to jump too quickly to a conclusion .
In the end this is just one story , which would be considered " anecdotal " for scientific point of view .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember reading this story before on slashdot.
I think its plausible that there is such a thing as a "bad gene".
However we should fight the temptation to jump too quickly to a conclusion.
In the end this is just one story, which would be considered "anecdotal" for scientific point of view.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30223148</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>PitaBred</author>
	<datestamp>1259088420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The unfortunate thing is that he spent 9 months and a week with his biological mother. Who knows what she ate and how much proper nutrition he got while developing, what drugs she did, how well she took care of herself. There's research showing that children start out crying in their native languages, which means they can be affected quite a bit by pre-natal environmental conditions. It's hard to separate DNA from "environment" when you really can't tell what the environment was for a large portion of his quite literally most formative time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The unfortunate thing is that he spent 9 months and a week with his biological mother .
Who knows what she ate and how much proper nutrition he got while developing , what drugs she did , how well she took care of herself .
There 's research showing that children start out crying in their native languages , which means they can be affected quite a bit by pre-natal environmental conditions .
It 's hard to separate DNA from " environment " when you really ca n't tell what the environment was for a large portion of his quite literally most formative time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The unfortunate thing is that he spent 9 months and a week with his biological mother.
Who knows what she ate and how much proper nutrition he got while developing, what drugs she did, how well she took care of herself.
There's research showing that children start out crying in their native languages, which means they can be affected quite a bit by pre-natal environmental conditions.
It's hard to separate DNA from "environment" when you really can't tell what the environment was for a large portion of his quite literally most formative time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30225054</id>
	<title>Autodiagnostic</title>
	<author>Phat\_Tony</author>
	<datestamp>1257171360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You know what other evidence they could use to demonstrate that he "has a brain disorder?"
<br> <br>

<i>The fact that he raped an murdered a 10-year old girl.</i> <br> <br>

It's not like any goody-two-shoes Ned Flanders type falls to temptation and suddenly rapes and murders little children. Whether the underlying reasons are cultural (abuse) or physical (brain damage), anyone who does this sort of thing is severely defective. For some reason, courts seem to take it that if the defense can show any reason <i>why</i> the crime was committed, then that's a reason why the person shouldn't be convicted.<br> <br>

Well, there's always a reason "why" when someone's totally screwed up. There will always be something that differentiates them from regular people who would sooner give their life to stop someone from perpetrating such acts than to commit them themselves. Finding the cause may be useful for treatment or deterrence or finding similar psychopaths and stopping them, but it's not a reason why the perpetrator shouldn't be convicted.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You know what other evidence they could use to demonstrate that he " has a brain disorder ?
" The fact that he raped an murdered a 10-year old girl .
It 's not like any goody-two-shoes Ned Flanders type falls to temptation and suddenly rapes and murders little children .
Whether the underlying reasons are cultural ( abuse ) or physical ( brain damage ) , anyone who does this sort of thing is severely defective .
For some reason , courts seem to take it that if the defense can show any reason why the crime was committed , then that 's a reason why the person should n't be convicted .
Well , there 's always a reason " why " when someone 's totally screwed up .
There will always be something that differentiates them from regular people who would sooner give their life to stop someone from perpetrating such acts than to commit them themselves .
Finding the cause may be useful for treatment or deterrence or finding similar psychopaths and stopping them , but it 's not a reason why the perpetrator should n't be convicted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know what other evidence they could use to demonstrate that he "has a brain disorder?
"
 

The fact that he raped an murdered a 10-year old girl.
It's not like any goody-two-shoes Ned Flanders type falls to temptation and suddenly rapes and murders little children.
Whether the underlying reasons are cultural (abuse) or physical (brain damage), anyone who does this sort of thing is severely defective.
For some reason, courts seem to take it that if the defense can show any reason why the crime was committed, then that's a reason why the person shouldn't be convicted.
Well, there's always a reason "why" when someone's totally screwed up.
There will always be something that differentiates them from regular people who would sooner give their life to stop someone from perpetrating such acts than to commit them themselves.
Finding the cause may be useful for treatment or deterrence or finding similar psychopaths and stopping them, but it's not a reason why the perpetrator shouldn't be convicted.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30236308</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>Mattskimo</author>
	<datestamp>1259245440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... and you weren't the littlest bit disturbed by the image of his biological father killing someone with an axe and cutting them up into pieces?</htmltext>
<tokenext>... and you were n't the littlest bit disturbed by the image of his biological father killing someone with an axe and cutting them up into pieces ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... and you weren't the littlest bit disturbed by the image of his biological father killing someone with an axe and cutting them up into pieces?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30225782</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222264</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259078460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know, I always thought is was how a person was raised, and not their DNA, that made them who they were, that is, until it happened in my own family.</p><p>My two cousins, lets call them Rick and Don, were raised exactly the same way, in fact until Rick turned 16 and everything came out we all thought they were biological brothers. It turned out my Aunt and Uncle had been told when they lived in Texas they couldn't have kids, and therefor adopted Rick at less than a week old, naturally boom a year later Don is born. They were very "all children are gifts from God" and spending many a night in their home and living down the street from them I can attest they never treated either kid differently from the other. But before Rick was even 12 there were problems-torturing animals, stealing, vicious behavior, bullying, etc. Finally they managed to get the court records unsealed and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....damn.</p><p>It turned out Rick's mom was a whore who was doing 10-20 for cutting up a John over a fee with a razor, and his dad was her pimp who I swear was a fricking axe murderer! No shit, they guy got into an argument over cash, went to his truck, got an axe and chopped the guy into little pieces and got life without parole. Now Rick is locked up in the same prison where his biological dad died, charged as a habitual offender he most likely will never get out again. My aunt and uncle spent huge sums of money trying to help him, therapy, drugs, etc all to no avail. Don is about as boring as you can get, I don't think he or his wife have ever gotten so much as a traffic ticket.</p><p>

So I really have to wonder if there is something in the DNA. My aunt looked up his biological family and both sides were nothing but violence-rapes,beatings, killings, etc as far back as she could find.And as I said both boys were raised side by side, same house, food, treatment, etc, in a house filled with love and caring parents. So maybe there is something to the "bad gene" idea, who knows. Maybe we can isolate the genes and hopefully get rid of them. But watching it unfold in my own family killed the whole "it is just the environment they are raised in" BS for me. Because they got Rick straight from the hospital and he had never been exposed to his family, nor would he or any of us even known they existed if things hadn't gone so wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , I always thought is was how a person was raised , and not their DNA , that made them who they were , that is , until it happened in my own family.My two cousins , lets call them Rick and Don , were raised exactly the same way , in fact until Rick turned 16 and everything came out we all thought they were biological brothers .
It turned out my Aunt and Uncle had been told when they lived in Texas they could n't have kids , and therefor adopted Rick at less than a week old , naturally boom a year later Don is born .
They were very " all children are gifts from God " and spending many a night in their home and living down the street from them I can attest they never treated either kid differently from the other .
But before Rick was even 12 there were problems-torturing animals , stealing , vicious behavior , bullying , etc .
Finally they managed to get the court records unsealed and ....damn.It turned out Rick 's mom was a whore who was doing 10-20 for cutting up a John over a fee with a razor , and his dad was her pimp who I swear was a fricking axe murderer !
No shit , they guy got into an argument over cash , went to his truck , got an axe and chopped the guy into little pieces and got life without parole .
Now Rick is locked up in the same prison where his biological dad died , charged as a habitual offender he most likely will never get out again .
My aunt and uncle spent huge sums of money trying to help him , therapy , drugs , etc all to no avail .
Don is about as boring as you can get , I do n't think he or his wife have ever gotten so much as a traffic ticket .
So I really have to wonder if there is something in the DNA .
My aunt looked up his biological family and both sides were nothing but violence-rapes,beatings , killings , etc as far back as she could find.And as I said both boys were raised side by side , same house , food , treatment , etc , in a house filled with love and caring parents .
So maybe there is something to the " bad gene " idea , who knows .
Maybe we can isolate the genes and hopefully get rid of them .
But watching it unfold in my own family killed the whole " it is just the environment they are raised in " BS for me .
Because they got Rick straight from the hospital and he had never been exposed to his family , nor would he or any of us even known they existed if things had n't gone so wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, I always thought is was how a person was raised, and not their DNA, that made them who they were, that is, until it happened in my own family.My two cousins, lets call them Rick and Don, were raised exactly the same way, in fact until Rick turned 16 and everything came out we all thought they were biological brothers.
It turned out my Aunt and Uncle had been told when they lived in Texas they couldn't have kids, and therefor adopted Rick at less than a week old, naturally boom a year later Don is born.
They were very "all children are gifts from God" and spending many a night in their home and living down the street from them I can attest they never treated either kid differently from the other.
But before Rick was even 12 there were problems-torturing animals, stealing, vicious behavior, bullying, etc.
Finally they managed to get the court records unsealed and ....damn.It turned out Rick's mom was a whore who was doing 10-20 for cutting up a John over a fee with a razor, and his dad was her pimp who I swear was a fricking axe murderer!
No shit, they guy got into an argument over cash, went to his truck, got an axe and chopped the guy into little pieces and got life without parole.
Now Rick is locked up in the same prison where his biological dad died, charged as a habitual offender he most likely will never get out again.
My aunt and uncle spent huge sums of money trying to help him, therapy, drugs, etc all to no avail.
Don is about as boring as you can get, I don't think he or his wife have ever gotten so much as a traffic ticket.
So I really have to wonder if there is something in the DNA.
My aunt looked up his biological family and both sides were nothing but violence-rapes,beatings, killings, etc as far back as she could find.And as I said both boys were raised side by side, same house, food, treatment, etc, in a house filled with love and caring parents.
So maybe there is something to the "bad gene" idea, who knows.
Maybe we can isolate the genes and hopefully get rid of them.
But watching it unfold in my own family killed the whole "it is just the environment they are raised in" BS for me.
Because they got Rick straight from the hospital and he had never been exposed to his family, nor would he or any of us even known they existed if things hadn't gone so wrong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30220956</id>
	<title>OK slashdot.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259068260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't think about pink elephants or Fp's</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't think about pink elephants or Fp 's</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't think about pink elephants or Fp's</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30232100</id>
	<title>Re:So, you still have the death penalty...</title>
	<author>AlgorithMan</author>
	<datestamp>1257167880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>oh, well<br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#Abortion\_law" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#Abortion\_law</a> [wikipedia.org] <br>
looks like you have pretty much the same laws for abortion that we have...</htmltext>
<tokenext>oh , well http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion # Abortion \ _law [ wikipedia.org ] looks like you have pretty much the same laws for abortion that we have.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>oh, well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#Abortion\_law [wikipedia.org] 
looks like you have pretty much the same laws for abortion that we have...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30223868</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221848</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259074680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks to actions taken by Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago, eugenics is a dirty word in most of the world today.  But, eugenics actually makes sense.  If this fool is defective, then those defective genes should be flushed from the gene pool.</p><p>We have actually been practicing the reverse of eugenics.  We assist congenitally deformed and defective infants to survive to adulthood, so that they can pass on their congenital conditions.  It's admirable to accept Downs' syndrome children, for instance.  As a society we invest huge amounts of resources to make their lives better, and more rewarding.  But - what exactly do those children contribute to society?  More faulty genes, of course.</p><p>I don't have the stomach to put all defective children out for the wolves to eat, like the Romans and the Spartans are claimed to have done.  But, really, it's time we stopped working so very hard to ensure that every defective child matures to breeding age.  It does nothing but weaken us, as a race.  (I mean the "Human" race - I do NOT mean anything at all like the Nazi's, or white supremacists mean by "race".)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks to actions taken by Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago , eugenics is a dirty word in most of the world today .
But , eugenics actually makes sense .
If this fool is defective , then those defective genes should be flushed from the gene pool.We have actually been practicing the reverse of eugenics .
We assist congenitally deformed and defective infants to survive to adulthood , so that they can pass on their congenital conditions .
It 's admirable to accept Downs ' syndrome children , for instance .
As a society we invest huge amounts of resources to make their lives better , and more rewarding .
But - what exactly do those children contribute to society ?
More faulty genes , of course.I do n't have the stomach to put all defective children out for the wolves to eat , like the Romans and the Spartans are claimed to have done .
But , really , it 's time we stopped working so very hard to ensure that every defective child matures to breeding age .
It does nothing but weaken us , as a race .
( I mean the " Human " race - I do NOT mean anything at all like the Nazi 's , or white supremacists mean by " race " .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks to actions taken by Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago, eugenics is a dirty word in most of the world today.
But, eugenics actually makes sense.
If this fool is defective, then those defective genes should be flushed from the gene pool.We have actually been practicing the reverse of eugenics.
We assist congenitally deformed and defective infants to survive to adulthood, so that they can pass on their congenital conditions.
It's admirable to accept Downs' syndrome children, for instance.
As a society we invest huge amounts of resources to make their lives better, and more rewarding.
But - what exactly do those children contribute to society?
More faulty genes, of course.I don't have the stomach to put all defective children out for the wolves to eat, like the Romans and the Spartans are claimed to have done.
But, really, it's time we stopped working so very hard to ensure that every defective child matures to breeding age.
It does nothing but weaken us, as a race.
(I mean the "Human" race - I do NOT mean anything at all like the Nazi's, or white supremacists mean by "race".
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30220958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222624</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>electrons\_are\_brave</author>
	<datestamp>1259082060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
Taken the Voight-Kampff lately? Maybe it's just your ugly language. "Defective". "Deformed". "Faulty". What a way to describe human beings!<p>

And what's the point of your quest? You say: it "does nothing but weaken us, as a race". Is our race weak? We certainly don't seem to be circling the drain as a species at the moment - in fact we're thriving in plague numbers. Numbers enough to share our resources with people who can't help themselves. </p><p>

Stop trying to perfect the human race. All we need is for most of us to be OK enough. And we are, more or less.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Taken the Voight-Kampff lately ?
Maybe it 's just your ugly language .
" Defective " . " Deformed " .
" Faulty " . What a way to describe human beings !
And what 's the point of your quest ?
You say : it " does nothing but weaken us , as a race " .
Is our race weak ?
We certainly do n't seem to be circling the drain as a species at the moment - in fact we 're thriving in plague numbers .
Numbers enough to share our resources with people who ca n't help themselves .
Stop trying to perfect the human race .
All we need is for most of us to be OK enough .
And we are , more or less .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Taken the Voight-Kampff lately?
Maybe it's just your ugly language.
"Defective". "Deformed".
"Faulty". What a way to describe human beings!
And what's the point of your quest?
You say: it "does nothing but weaken us, as a race".
Is our race weak?
We certainly don't seem to be circling the drain as a species at the moment - in fact we're thriving in plague numbers.
Numbers enough to share our resources with people who can't help themselves.
Stop trying to perfect the human race.
All we need is for most of us to be OK enough.
And we are, more or less.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30226448</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>hmar</author>
	<datestamp>1257179940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem with this is that it is not that far a jump from "defective" to "undesirable."
People cannot be given the choice of who gets to breed, we as a species are far too immature.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with this is that it is not that far a jump from " defective " to " undesirable .
" People can not be given the choice of who gets to breed , we as a species are far too immature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with this is that it is not that far a jump from "defective" to "undesirable.
"
People cannot be given the choice of who gets to breed, we as a species are far too immature.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30225558</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>HuguesT</author>
	<datestamp>1257175080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The plural of anecdotes is not data.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The plural of anecdotes is not data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The plural of anecdotes is not data.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222264</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30229650</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>Wyatt Earp</author>
	<datestamp>1257194760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Thanks to actions taken by Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago, eugenics is a dirty word in most of the world today. But, eugenics actually makes sense. If this fool is defective, then those defective genes should be flushed from the gene pool."</p><p>Slippery slope there, to flush those genes we need to remove brothers/sisters, first cousins, children, and what else? Mother and father too?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Thanks to actions taken by Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago , eugenics is a dirty word in most of the world today .
But , eugenics actually makes sense .
If this fool is defective , then those defective genes should be flushed from the gene pool .
" Slippery slope there , to flush those genes we need to remove brothers/sisters , first cousins , children , and what else ?
Mother and father too ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Thanks to actions taken by Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago, eugenics is a dirty word in most of the world today.
But, eugenics actually makes sense.
If this fool is defective, then those defective genes should be flushed from the gene pool.
"Slippery slope there, to flush those genes we need to remove brothers/sisters, first cousins, children, and what else?
Mother and father too?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30223686</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>TheVelvetFlamebait</author>
	<datestamp>1257153420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.</p></div></blockquote><p>Really? You've been working at Microsoft for that long?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.Really ?
You 've been working at Microsoft for that long ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.Really?
You've been working at Microsoft for that long?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30220958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30224660</id>
	<title>Re:Brian Dugan is scum and deserves to die</title>
	<author>martinX</author>
	<datestamp>1257165720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I just read about the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanine\_Nicarico\_murder\_case" title="wikipedia.org">Jeanine Nicario</a> [wikipedia.org] case. Two men were convicted and sentenced to death for her murder. The murder that Dugan has now confessed to. Although Dugan is obviously the worst scum, the fact that 14 cops, prosecutors and deputies  were indicted (They were found not guilty of anything naughty.) and nearly got two innocent men killed by the "Justice System" kind of puts me off the death penalty in general.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just read about the Jeanine Nicario [ wikipedia.org ] case .
Two men were convicted and sentenced to death for her murder .
The murder that Dugan has now confessed to .
Although Dugan is obviously the worst scum , the fact that 14 cops , prosecutors and deputies were indicted ( They were found not guilty of anything naughty .
) and nearly got two innocent men killed by the " Justice System " kind of puts me off the death penalty in general .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just read about the Jeanine Nicario [wikipedia.org] case.
Two men were convicted and sentenced to death for her murder.
The murder that Dugan has now confessed to.
Although Dugan is obviously the worst scum, the fact that 14 cops, prosecutors and deputies  were indicted (They were found not guilty of anything naughty.
) and nearly got two innocent men killed by the "Justice System" kind of puts me off the death penalty in general.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222148</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222266</id>
	<title>Re:Great defence!</title>
	<author>kcitren</author>
	<datestamp>1259078460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>But, really, it's time we stopped working so very hard to ensure that every defective child matures to breeding age.  It does nothing but weaken us, as a race.  (I mean the "Human" race - I do NOT mean anything at all like the Nazi's, or white supremacists mean by "race".)</p></div><p>It's not that we should ensure that they reach breeding age, it's that, in the case of genetic diseases, we should ensure that they don't breed [assuming, of course, that they would be a burden on society, and have no positive impact].  There's no harm in letting disabled people live [minus any extra burden it may put on their family, etc].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>But , really , it 's time we stopped working so very hard to ensure that every defective child matures to breeding age .
It does nothing but weaken us , as a race .
( I mean the " Human " race - I do NOT mean anything at all like the Nazi 's , or white supremacists mean by " race " .
) It 's not that we should ensure that they reach breeding age , it 's that , in the case of genetic diseases , we should ensure that they do n't breed [ assuming , of course , that they would be a burden on society , and have no positive impact ] .
There 's no harm in letting disabled people live [ minus any extra burden it may put on their family , etc ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But, really, it's time we stopped working so very hard to ensure that every defective child matures to breeding age.
It does nothing but weaken us, as a race.
(I mean the "Human" race - I do NOT mean anything at all like the Nazi's, or white supremacists mean by "race".
)It's not that we should ensure that they reach breeding age, it's that, in the case of genetic diseases, we should ensure that they don't breed [assuming, of course, that they would be a burden on society, and have no positive impact].
There's no harm in letting disabled people live [minus any extra burden it may put on their family, etc].
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30220958</id>
	<title>Great defence!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259068260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>If anything, it would help the jury decide to sentence him to death... obviously they're helping him by not letting him live, thus his horribly diseased brain won't make him suffer any longer... Really it's the humanitarian thing to do...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</htmltext>
<tokenext>If anything , it would help the jury decide to sentence him to death... obviously they 're helping him by not letting him live , thus his horribly diseased brain wo n't make him suffer any longer... Really it 's the humanitarian thing to do... : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If anything, it would help the jury decide to sentence him to death... obviously they're helping him by not letting him live, thus his horribly diseased brain won't make him suffer any longer... Really it's the humanitarian thing to do... :P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30225888</id>
	<title>there should only be one sentence...</title>
	<author>inerlogic</author>
	<datestamp>1257177180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... for raping and murdering a 10 year old girl.<br><br>and it should involve the superbowl halftime show, (or world series 7th inning stretch) and 3 or 4 very hungry lions....</htmltext>
<tokenext>... for raping and murdering a 10 year old girl.and it should involve the superbowl halftime show , ( or world series 7th inning stretch ) and 3 or 4 very hungry lions... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... for raping and murdering a 10 year old girl.and it should involve the superbowl halftime show, (or world series 7th inning stretch) and 3 or 4 very hungry lions....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_24_2217208_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222452
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221138
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</commentlist>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_24_2217208_4</id>
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http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30221848
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30220958
</commentlist>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_24_2217208_25</id>
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_24_2217208_24</id>
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_24_2217208_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222624
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_24_2217208_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30224668
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_24_2217208_22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30236464
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http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30225782
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30224982
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222980
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30222264
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_24_2217208_16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_2217208.30223242
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_24_2217208_26</id>
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