<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_24_1735230</id>
	<title>Inside England and Wales' DNA Regime</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1259084520000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Sockatume writes <i>"The UK's Human Genetics Commission has published its report on the collection of DNA by the Police forces in England and Wales. Currently, Police collect DNA from every suspect in a case which could lead to a criminal record, and retain that material, which the European Court of Human Rights has ruled illegal. The government plans to keep all DNA samples for suspects from England, Wales and Northern Ireland for up to six years, except for DNA from individuals arrested during terrorism-related investigations, which will be retained forever. The report states that the police <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8375567.stm">frequently performed arrests solely to collect DNA</a>, that certain demographics (such as young, black men) were 'very highly over-represented,' that there was 'very little concrete evidence' that the DNA database had any actual use in investigating crime, and that the database contained material from individuals arrested in Scotland and Northern Ireland, outside its remit. Of the 4.5m individuals in the database, a fifth have never received any convictions or cautions from the Police. The report recommends that an independent advisory body oversee the database, and that laws be passed to limit the uses of the database, while tracking those with access to it, and making misuse of the information a criminal offence."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sockatume writes " The UK 's Human Genetics Commission has published its report on the collection of DNA by the Police forces in England and Wales .
Currently , Police collect DNA from every suspect in a case which could lead to a criminal record , and retain that material , which the European Court of Human Rights has ruled illegal .
The government plans to keep all DNA samples for suspects from England , Wales and Northern Ireland for up to six years , except for DNA from individuals arrested during terrorism-related investigations , which will be retained forever .
The report states that the police frequently performed arrests solely to collect DNA , that certain demographics ( such as young , black men ) were 'very highly over-represented, ' that there was 'very little concrete evidence ' that the DNA database had any actual use in investigating crime , and that the database contained material from individuals arrested in Scotland and Northern Ireland , outside its remit .
Of the 4.5m individuals in the database , a fifth have never received any convictions or cautions from the Police .
The report recommends that an independent advisory body oversee the database , and that laws be passed to limit the uses of the database , while tracking those with access to it , and making misuse of the information a criminal offence .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sockatume writes "The UK's Human Genetics Commission has published its report on the collection of DNA by the Police forces in England and Wales.
Currently, Police collect DNA from every suspect in a case which could lead to a criminal record, and retain that material, which the European Court of Human Rights has ruled illegal.
The government plans to keep all DNA samples for suspects from England, Wales and Northern Ireland for up to six years, except for DNA from individuals arrested during terrorism-related investigations, which will be retained forever.
The report states that the police frequently performed arrests solely to collect DNA, that certain demographics (such as young, black men) were 'very highly over-represented,' that there was 'very little concrete evidence' that the DNA database had any actual use in investigating crime, and that the database contained material from individuals arrested in Scotland and Northern Ireland, outside its remit.
Of the 4.5m individuals in the database, a fifth have never received any convictions or cautions from the Police.
The report recommends that an independent advisory body oversee the database, and that laws be passed to limit the uses of the database, while tracking those with access to it, and making misuse of the information a criminal offence.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216888</id>
	<title>DNA doesn't provide conclusive evidence</title>
	<author>Rich\_Roast</author>
	<datestamp>1259091960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Members of the Jury, if you accept the scientific evidence called by the Crown, this indicates that there are probably only four or five white males in the United Kingdom from whom that semen stain could have come. The Defendant is one of them. If that is the position, the decision you have to reach, on all the evidence, is whether you are sure that it was the Defendant who left that stain or whether it is possible that it was one of that other small group of men who share the same DNA characteristics." - Phillips LJ, cited from Wikipedia article.

To be truly effective as a tool in prosecution, every man, woman and child would need their DNA profile kept on record, and British public records, up to and including massive numbers of tax returns (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1082402/Tax-website-shut-memory-stick-secret-personal-data-12million-pub-car-park.html), have a history of being woefully insecure. None of this bodes well for much of anything.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Members of the Jury , if you accept the scientific evidence called by the Crown , this indicates that there are probably only four or five white males in the United Kingdom from whom that semen stain could have come .
The Defendant is one of them .
If that is the position , the decision you have to reach , on all the evidence , is whether you are sure that it was the Defendant who left that stain or whether it is possible that it was one of that other small group of men who share the same DNA characteristics .
" - Phillips LJ , cited from Wikipedia article .
To be truly effective as a tool in prosecution , every man , woman and child would need their DNA profile kept on record , and British public records , up to and including massive numbers of tax returns ( http : //www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1082402/Tax-website-shut-memory-stick-secret-personal-data-12million-pub-car-park.html ) , have a history of being woefully insecure .
None of this bodes well for much of anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Members of the Jury, if you accept the scientific evidence called by the Crown, this indicates that there are probably only four or five white males in the United Kingdom from whom that semen stain could have come.
The Defendant is one of them.
If that is the position, the decision you have to reach, on all the evidence, is whether you are sure that it was the Defendant who left that stain or whether it is possible that it was one of that other small group of men who share the same DNA characteristics.
" - Phillips LJ, cited from Wikipedia article.
To be truly effective as a tool in prosecution, every man, woman and child would need their DNA profile kept on record, and British public records, up to and including massive numbers of tax returns (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1082402/Tax-website-shut-memory-stick-secret-personal-data-12million-pub-car-park.html), have a history of being woefully insecure.
None of this bodes well for much of anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216326</id>
	<title>Re:Actaully, it seems pretty accurate</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1259089260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Far be it for me to support Big Brother, but its hard to find fault with a<br>&gt; law enforcement system that actually seem to be doing what it is supposed to.</p><p>You believe that they should arrest the same people over and over again for acts most of which would not be crimes in a truly free society?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Far be it for me to support Big Brother , but its hard to find fault with a &gt; law enforcement system that actually seem to be doing what it is supposed to.You believe that they should arrest the same people over and over again for acts most of which would not be crimes in a truly free society ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Far be it for me to support Big Brother, but its hard to find fault with a&gt; law enforcement system that actually seem to be doing what it is supposed to.You believe that they should arrest the same people over and over again for acts most of which would not be crimes in a truly free society?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30221958</id>
	<title>Re:Just take it at birth like in the USSA</title>
	<author>teknosapien</author>
	<datestamp>1259075640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>didn't you see the "X Files"</htmltext>
<tokenext>did n't you see the " X Files "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>didn't you see the "X Files"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216868</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216536</id>
	<title>Re:The same should be done</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259090220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Shut the fuck up jewboy!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Shut the fuck up jewboy !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shut the fuck up jewboy!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216362</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30219094</id>
	<title>Re:The same should be done</title>
	<author>Powys</author>
	<datestamp>1259059020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Liberals want the government out of people's lives, smaller government, and no deficit budgets.</p></div><p>Wait....What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Are you serious?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Liberals want the government out of people 's lives , smaller government , and no deficit budgets.Wait....What ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ?
Are you serious ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Liberals want the government out of people's lives, smaller government, and no deficit budgets.Wait....What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Are you serious?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216620</id>
	<title>bend over and take it</title>
	<author>czarangelus</author>
	<datestamp>1259090700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Will any of you fight this intrusion into your persons by force? What's that? No? Even the Taliban are brave enough to try to defend their way of life against the demeaning incursions of the USA/British/Israeli Axis, but when it comes to the victims in the Home countries, well you just bend over for it every time. This is why I will <b>always</b> admire organizations like Hezbollah more than you, even if I don't agree with all of their ideas - at least they have the balls to stand up against your violent and intrusive regimes and define their cultures in opposition to it. Since <b>none</b> of you will ever go to the lengths necessary to protect your rights and human dignity, you had better pray to God that the economic collapse happens sooner than later and cuts off the ability of your malignant regimes to continue these debauches.<br> <br>
When the USSR fell, it fell largely peacefully - but I expect the US/UK/Israeli Axis regimes to wage total war on their own people before fading from history.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Will any of you fight this intrusion into your persons by force ?
What 's that ?
No ? Even the Taliban are brave enough to try to defend their way of life against the demeaning incursions of the USA/British/Israeli Axis , but when it comes to the victims in the Home countries , well you just bend over for it every time .
This is why I will always admire organizations like Hezbollah more than you , even if I do n't agree with all of their ideas - at least they have the balls to stand up against your violent and intrusive regimes and define their cultures in opposition to it .
Since none of you will ever go to the lengths necessary to protect your rights and human dignity , you had better pray to God that the economic collapse happens sooner than later and cuts off the ability of your malignant regimes to continue these debauches .
When the USSR fell , it fell largely peacefully - but I expect the US/UK/Israeli Axis regimes to wage total war on their own people before fading from history .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Will any of you fight this intrusion into your persons by force?
What's that?
No? Even the Taliban are brave enough to try to defend their way of life against the demeaning incursions of the USA/British/Israeli Axis, but when it comes to the victims in the Home countries, well you just bend over for it every time.
This is why I will always admire organizations like Hezbollah more than you, even if I don't agree with all of their ideas - at least they have the balls to stand up against your violent and intrusive regimes and define their cultures in opposition to it.
Since none of you will ever go to the lengths necessary to protect your rights and human dignity, you had better pray to God that the economic collapse happens sooner than later and cuts off the ability of your malignant regimes to continue these debauches.
When the USSR fell, it fell largely peacefully - but I expect the US/UK/Israeli Axis regimes to wage total war on their own people before fading from history.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216666</id>
	<title>Re:Actaully, it seems pretty accurate</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1259090940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Than means that for approx 80\% of the people they initially suspected, they were right! Far be it for me to support Big Brother, but its hard to find fault with a law enforcement system that actually seem to be doing what it is supposed to.</i></p><p>They're not suppose to punish innocent people. If 80\% are guilty, 20\% are innocent. And I'm of the opinion that violation of my human rights IS punishment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Than means that for approx 80 \ % of the people they initially suspected , they were right !
Far be it for me to support Big Brother , but its hard to find fault with a law enforcement system that actually seem to be doing what it is supposed to.They 're not suppose to punish innocent people .
If 80 \ % are guilty , 20 \ % are innocent .
And I 'm of the opinion that violation of my human rights IS punishment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Than means that for approx 80\% of the people they initially suspected, they were right!
Far be it for me to support Big Brother, but its hard to find fault with a law enforcement system that actually seem to be doing what it is supposed to.They're not suppose to punish innocent people.
If 80\% are guilty, 20\% are innocent.
And I'm of the opinion that violation of my human rights IS punishment.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30224996</id>
	<title>You underestimate "very highly"</title>
	<author>Sockatume</author>
	<datestamp>1257170580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/nov/24/dna-database-inquiry" title="guardian.co.uk">"three-quarters of young black males, aged 18 to 35, are now on the database"</a> [guardian.co.uk]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" three-quarters of young black males , aged 18 to 35 , are now on the database " [ guardian.co.uk ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"three-quarters of young black males, aged 18 to 35, are now on the database" [guardian.co.uk]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216174</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216162</id>
	<title>who watches the watchmen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259088600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and who watches the men watching the watchmen?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and who watches the men watching the watchmen ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and who watches the men watching the watchmen?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217806</id>
	<title>It'st too late...</title>
	<author>Ludedude</author>
	<datestamp>1259053200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"The report recommends that an independent advisory body oversee the database, and that laws be passed to limit the uses of the database, while tracking those with access to it, and making misuse of the information a criminal offence."

It's too late.  You can never put the shit back in the donkey.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" The report recommends that an independent advisory body oversee the database , and that laws be passed to limit the uses of the database , while tracking those with access to it , and making misuse of the information a criminal offence .
" It 's too late .
You can never put the shit back in the donkey .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The report recommends that an independent advisory body oversee the database, and that laws be passed to limit the uses of the database, while tracking those with access to it, and making misuse of the information a criminal offence.
"

It's too late.
You can never put the shit back in the donkey.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216362</id>
	<title>Re:The same should be done</title>
	<author>ground.zero.612</author>
	<datestamp>1259089380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>On a wider note many such police/law enforcement databases need to be more thoroughly regulated, including things such as "Do Not Fly" lists and terrorism suspects.</p></div><p>You mean for people of middle east descent right?</p><p>There were no White, Black, or Asian terrorist attackers (for the 9/11, Cole, and Embassy attacks). The people we are fighting are Middle-East Muslims. The people that hijacked our planes, and blew them up or crashed them into buildings should be identified by their racial ethnicity.</p><p>Every time I fly, and see one of these God damned security assholes fucking with an old white/black/asian man or woman, I wish the TSA would all DIAF. Stop fucking pretending. Let the Middle-East Muslims cry racism/racial profiling. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING. Profiling every single person from the Middle East.</p><p>

Don't like it? Lucky for you the USA gives you the freedom to leave. I suggest you do. We don't want you here because you are a <em>burden</em> on our society. How fucking dare you make us act like whites/blacks/asians are our enemy simply because we've fallen prey to Political Correctness. Fuck you Middle-East Muslims, and fuck you liberals for getting us into this God awful mess.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>On a wider note many such police/law enforcement databases need to be more thoroughly regulated , including things such as " Do Not Fly " lists and terrorism suspects.You mean for people of middle east descent right ? There were no White , Black , or Asian terrorist attackers ( for the 9/11 , Cole , and Embassy attacks ) .
The people we are fighting are Middle-East Muslims .
The people that hijacked our planes , and blew them up or crashed them into buildings should be identified by their racial ethnicity.Every time I fly , and see one of these God damned security assholes fucking with an old white/black/asian man or woman , I wish the TSA would all DIAF .
Stop fucking pretending .
Let the Middle-East Muslims cry racism/racial profiling .
THAT 'S EXACTLY WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING .
Profiling every single person from the Middle East .
Do n't like it ?
Lucky for you the USA gives you the freedom to leave .
I suggest you do .
We do n't want you here because you are a burden on our society .
How fucking dare you make us act like whites/blacks/asians are our enemy simply because we 've fallen prey to Political Correctness .
Fuck you Middle-East Muslims , and fuck you liberals for getting us into this God awful mess .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On a wider note many such police/law enforcement databases need to be more thoroughly regulated, including things such as "Do Not Fly" lists and terrorism suspects.You mean for people of middle east descent right?There were no White, Black, or Asian terrorist attackers (for the 9/11, Cole, and Embassy attacks).
The people we are fighting are Middle-East Muslims.
The people that hijacked our planes, and blew them up or crashed them into buildings should be identified by their racial ethnicity.Every time I fly, and see one of these God damned security assholes fucking with an old white/black/asian man or woman, I wish the TSA would all DIAF.
Stop fucking pretending.
Let the Middle-East Muslims cry racism/racial profiling.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING.
Profiling every single person from the Middle East.
Don't like it?
Lucky for you the USA gives you the freedom to leave.
I suggest you do.
We don't want you here because you are a burden on our society.
How fucking dare you make us act like whites/blacks/asians are our enemy simply because we've fallen prey to Political Correctness.
Fuck you Middle-East Muslims, and fuck you liberals for getting us into this God awful mess.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216152</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217352</id>
	<title>Re:Just take it at birth like in the USSA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259094420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Only if you are born in a hospital. If you are born at home, you can tell the doctor to fuck off when he says he needs to take genetic samples.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Only if you are born in a hospital .
If you are born at home , you can tell the doctor to fuck off when he says he needs to take genetic samples .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only if you are born in a hospital.
If you are born at home, you can tell the doctor to fuck off when he says he needs to take genetic samples.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216152</id>
	<title>The same should be done</title>
	<author>Gerzel</author>
	<datestamp>1259088540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the US too, and for fingerprinting as well.</p><p>Such evidence should only be collected without consent with a warrant and if the individual is not charged and convicted with a crime such evidence should be removed from any database/storage and destroyed/deleted.  If it is taken with consent then the individual should have the right to ask that it be destroyed after the investigation is complete.</p><p>On a wider note many such police/law enforcement databases need to be more thoroughly regulated, including things such as "Do Not Fly" lists and terrorism suspects.  There needs to be a clear legal way for both puting someone's name on the list, and removing it, as well there also needs to be a way for individuals to know why they are on any such list.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the US too , and for fingerprinting as well.Such evidence should only be collected without consent with a warrant and if the individual is not charged and convicted with a crime such evidence should be removed from any database/storage and destroyed/deleted .
If it is taken with consent then the individual should have the right to ask that it be destroyed after the investigation is complete.On a wider note many such police/law enforcement databases need to be more thoroughly regulated , including things such as " Do Not Fly " lists and terrorism suspects .
There needs to be a clear legal way for both puting someone 's name on the list , and removing it , as well there also needs to be a way for individuals to know why they are on any such list .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the US too, and for fingerprinting as well.Such evidence should only be collected without consent with a warrant and if the individual is not charged and convicted with a crime such evidence should be removed from any database/storage and destroyed/deleted.
If it is taken with consent then the individual should have the right to ask that it be destroyed after the investigation is complete.On a wider note many such police/law enforcement databases need to be more thoroughly regulated, including things such as "Do Not Fly" lists and terrorism suspects.
There needs to be a clear legal way for both puting someone's name on the list, and removing it, as well there also needs to be a way for individuals to know why they are on any such list.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216174</id>
	<title>Facts without analysis</title>
	<author>DNS-and-BIND</author>
	<datestamp>1259088660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Certain demographics (such as young, black men) are also 'very highly over-represented' in prison.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Certain demographics ( such as young , black men ) are also 'very highly over-represented ' in prison .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Certain demographics (such as young, black men) are also 'very highly over-represented' in prison.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30222968</id>
	<title>Re:Misunderstanding how laws and enforcement works</title>
	<author>Anand7</author>
	<datestamp>1259085840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, the difficulty arises that every person who is arrested is innocent in the eyes of the law...until proven guilty. Every person shot by the police is just as innocent.

And then we have a bunch of salesmen (prosecutors, the state etc.) tasked with selling the concept of their guilt. The defence are no less salesmen and they are tasked with selling the concept of their innocence. It has been like this since the ancient Greeks. Yay rhetoric!

Were the system truly fair, both sides would be engaged in solidifying innocence. That a successful prosecutor can make more money when they head up the food chain or leave for private practice pretty well guarantees an unfair result when there is a lack of funding for a really skilled defence.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , the difficulty arises that every person who is arrested is innocent in the eyes of the law...until proven guilty .
Every person shot by the police is just as innocent .
And then we have a bunch of salesmen ( prosecutors , the state etc .
) tasked with selling the concept of their guilt .
The defence are no less salesmen and they are tasked with selling the concept of their innocence .
It has been like this since the ancient Greeks .
Yay rhetoric !
Were the system truly fair , both sides would be engaged in solidifying innocence .
That a successful prosecutor can make more money when they head up the food chain or leave for private practice pretty well guarantees an unfair result when there is a lack of funding for a really skilled defence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, the difficulty arises that every person who is arrested is innocent in the eyes of the law...until proven guilty.
Every person shot by the police is just as innocent.
And then we have a bunch of salesmen (prosecutors, the state etc.
) tasked with selling the concept of their guilt.
The defence are no less salesmen and they are tasked with selling the concept of their innocence.
It has been like this since the ancient Greeks.
Yay rhetoric!
Were the system truly fair, both sides would be engaged in solidifying innocence.
That a successful prosecutor can make more money when they head up the food chain or leave for private practice pretty well guarantees an unfair result when there is a lack of funding for a really skilled defence.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217084</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216338</id>
	<title>Oversight isn't a fix...</title>
	<author>eepok</author>
	<datestamp>1259089320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oversight isn't a fix for something that shouldn't exist in the first place. If you can't trust the original owners to be ethical with something of such corruptible power, do you really want to risk trusting *anyone* with this?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oversight is n't a fix for something that should n't exist in the first place .
If you ca n't trust the original owners to be ethical with something of such corruptible power , do you really want to risk trusting * anyone * with this ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oversight isn't a fix for something that shouldn't exist in the first place.
If you can't trust the original owners to be ethical with something of such corruptible power, do you really want to risk trusting *anyone* with this?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217178</id>
	<title>I spit...</title>
	<author>jeffshoaf</author>
	<datestamp>1259093460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I spit at their attempt to get <strong>my</strong> DNA! Oh, wait...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I spit at their attempt to get my DNA !
Oh , wait.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I spit at their attempt to get my DNA!
Oh, wait...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217504</id>
	<title>How much garbage will this system produce?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259095080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They just take away our freedoms one at a time. Even though a commission will maybe take down this flagrant offense toward human rights they will just plant another bomb at the subway like they did last time and they'll come back in full swing. People for the love of who ever you pray to let's all unite. I feel that in the future we'll be so well manipulated that we won't stand a chance. We'll be shot in plain daylight with the argument of being supposed terrorists. Read the Patriot Act . You can be arrested, detained and tortured indefinitely, with no charges and without any rights. Let's organize a big protest while there's still the time. Time is ticking against us. It' doesn't take long. 1 day a year for 1 hour the whole world will be united against what is after all our own system that we support and accept.<br>We can wipe world hunger and such grotesque inequities in 1-5 days tops + 1-2 years of world reconstruction. This is vs a lifetime of slavery.<br>Whenever a computer, car, or something else becomes outdated you go and get a new one. Why not do the same with this fascist economic system of ours? I don't know what to believe any more. I feel that Zeitgeist is the only way we've got if I ever want to see those poor starving children receive what was their all along.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They just take away our freedoms one at a time .
Even though a commission will maybe take down this flagrant offense toward human rights they will just plant another bomb at the subway like they did last time and they 'll come back in full swing .
People for the love of who ever you pray to let 's all unite .
I feel that in the future we 'll be so well manipulated that we wo n't stand a chance .
We 'll be shot in plain daylight with the argument of being supposed terrorists .
Read the Patriot Act .
You can be arrested , detained and tortured indefinitely , with no charges and without any rights .
Let 's organize a big protest while there 's still the time .
Time is ticking against us .
It ' does n't take long .
1 day a year for 1 hour the whole world will be united against what is after all our own system that we support and accept.We can wipe world hunger and such grotesque inequities in 1-5 days tops + 1-2 years of world reconstruction .
This is vs a lifetime of slavery.Whenever a computer , car , or something else becomes outdated you go and get a new one .
Why not do the same with this fascist economic system of ours ?
I do n't know what to believe any more .
I feel that Zeitgeist is the only way we 've got if I ever want to see those poor starving children receive what was their all along .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They just take away our freedoms one at a time.
Even though a commission will maybe take down this flagrant offense toward human rights they will just plant another bomb at the subway like they did last time and they'll come back in full swing.
People for the love of who ever you pray to let's all unite.
I feel that in the future we'll be so well manipulated that we won't stand a chance.
We'll be shot in plain daylight with the argument of being supposed terrorists.
Read the Patriot Act .
You can be arrested, detained and tortured indefinitely, with no charges and without any rights.
Let's organize a big protest while there's still the time.
Time is ticking against us.
It' doesn't take long.
1 day a year for 1 hour the whole world will be united against what is after all our own system that we support and accept.We can wipe world hunger and such grotesque inequities in 1-5 days tops + 1-2 years of world reconstruction.
This is vs a lifetime of slavery.Whenever a computer, car, or something else becomes outdated you go and get a new one.
Why not do the same with this fascist economic system of ours?
I don't know what to believe any more.
I feel that Zeitgeist is the only way we've got if I ever want to see those poor starving children receive what was their all along.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216156</id>
	<title>No Way!</title>
	<author>MightyMartian</author>
	<datestamp>1259088540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm shocked, I tell you!  Shocked!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm shocked , I tell you !
Shocked !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm shocked, I tell you!
Shocked!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217854</id>
	<title>Re:For Starters the Obvious ...</title>
	<author>ISoldat53</author>
	<datestamp>1259053380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>At least the police should be required to have their DNA in the database. That way any DNA contamination during crime scene investigation can be accounted for.</htmltext>
<tokenext>At least the police should be required to have their DNA in the database .
That way any DNA contamination during crime scene investigation can be accounted for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least the police should be required to have their DNA in the database.
That way any DNA contamination during crime scene investigation can be accounted for.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216806</id>
	<title>The overseeing body should...</title>
	<author>joocemann</author>
	<datestamp>1259091600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... also be able to charge, fine, and incriminate the policemen who continue to do things illegally, thus setting example and ensuring better policemanship.</p><p>The police don't respect the law because very few people actually make them do it.</p><p>Make them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... also be able to charge , fine , and incriminate the policemen who continue to do things illegally , thus setting example and ensuring better policemanship.The police do n't respect the law because very few people actually make them do it.Make them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... also be able to charge, fine, and incriminate the policemen who continue to do things illegally, thus setting example and ensuring better policemanship.The police don't respect the law because very few people actually make them do it.Make them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216468</id>
	<title>Re:Actaully, it seems pretty accurate</title>
	<author>aslate</author>
	<datestamp>1259089800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>Of the 4.5m individuals in the database, a fifth have <i> <b>never</b> </i> received any convictions or cautions from the Police.</p></div><p>Than means that for approx 80\% of the people they initially suspected, they were right!</p></div><p>No, that means that 80\% of those have had some form of criminal conviction or caution at any point in their life, which could be for a large array of fairly minor things.</p><p>Cautions can be given out for petty vandalism or fairly minor crime, lots of things that people may have done during their younger years. Not the sort of crimes that i think DNA should be kept on a database for.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Of the 4.5m individuals in the database , a fifth have never received any convictions or cautions from the Police.Than means that for approx 80 \ % of the people they initially suspected , they were right ! No , that means that 80 \ % of those have had some form of criminal conviction or caution at any point in their life , which could be for a large array of fairly minor things.Cautions can be given out for petty vandalism or fairly minor crime , lots of things that people may have done during their younger years .
Not the sort of crimes that i think DNA should be kept on a database for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of the 4.5m individuals in the database, a fifth have  never  received any convictions or cautions from the Police.Than means that for approx 80\% of the people they initially suspected, they were right!No, that means that 80\% of those have had some form of criminal conviction or caution at any point in their life, which could be for a large array of fairly minor things.Cautions can be given out for petty vandalism or fairly minor crime, lots of things that people may have done during their younger years.
Not the sort of crimes that i think DNA should be kept on a database for.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30239520</id>
	<title>Re:The same should be done</title>
	<author>Nefarious Wheel</author>
	<datestamp>1259228700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ok, that's it - you're friended.  Too many intelligent posts in a row.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ok , that 's it - you 're friended .
Too many intelligent posts in a row .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ok, that's it - you're friended.
Too many intelligent posts in a row.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217084</id>
	<title>Misunderstanding how laws and enforcement works</title>
	<author>Lemming Mark</author>
	<datestamp>1259092860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's bizarre but there still seems to be this perception that the police are a fine bunch of chaps who will universally do their best to apply the rules sensibly and fairly.  There are plenty of police officers who that description applies to, I'm sure - but that's not an excuse for lawmakers and the justice system to assume it holds universally true.</p><p>At the end of the day, the police are there - in practice - *to catch potential criminals*.  Sorting out who is and isn't guilty is not their job, that's the job of the courts (as it should be).  So the police don't really have an incentive to be especially fair or reasonable; that's not what we've tasked them with doing.  What lawmakers sometimes seem to fail to understand is that if we pressure them to achieve "catch all the terrorists / criminals" then they'll try to do that, even if they "catch" many innocent people too.  If we give them new tools to do that then *they will use them*.  If the tools we give them are extremely blunt instruments, like the ability to hold innocent people's data on the DNA database, they're going to use them to their fullest extent.  If we want them to behave sensibly, the laws need to be more focused and less open to abuse.</p><p>It's the same issue with various "anti-terror" laws.  Allegedly local councils in the UK have used these to put people under surveillance for reasons unrelated to terrorism (like whether they're using their rubbish bins correctly and whether they live in the locality of a school they have applied to).  We gave them overly broad legislation and assumed that they wouldn't use it, even though it helps them to do what they see as their job.  None of these organisations can be relied upon to act in the best interests in society because each of them only sees part of the big picture - our politicians are *supposed* to maintain the balance of power with targeted legislation that results in society's best interests being served overall.  That goal can't be reached by handing out disproportionate powers indiscriminately.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's bizarre but there still seems to be this perception that the police are a fine bunch of chaps who will universally do their best to apply the rules sensibly and fairly .
There are plenty of police officers who that description applies to , I 'm sure - but that 's not an excuse for lawmakers and the justice system to assume it holds universally true.At the end of the day , the police are there - in practice - * to catch potential criminals * .
Sorting out who is and is n't guilty is not their job , that 's the job of the courts ( as it should be ) .
So the police do n't really have an incentive to be especially fair or reasonable ; that 's not what we 've tasked them with doing .
What lawmakers sometimes seem to fail to understand is that if we pressure them to achieve " catch all the terrorists / criminals " then they 'll try to do that , even if they " catch " many innocent people too .
If we give them new tools to do that then * they will use them * .
If the tools we give them are extremely blunt instruments , like the ability to hold innocent people 's data on the DNA database , they 're going to use them to their fullest extent .
If we want them to behave sensibly , the laws need to be more focused and less open to abuse.It 's the same issue with various " anti-terror " laws .
Allegedly local councils in the UK have used these to put people under surveillance for reasons unrelated to terrorism ( like whether they 're using their rubbish bins correctly and whether they live in the locality of a school they have applied to ) .
We gave them overly broad legislation and assumed that they would n't use it , even though it helps them to do what they see as their job .
None of these organisations can be relied upon to act in the best interests in society because each of them only sees part of the big picture - our politicians are * supposed * to maintain the balance of power with targeted legislation that results in society 's best interests being served overall .
That goal ca n't be reached by handing out disproportionate powers indiscriminately .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's bizarre but there still seems to be this perception that the police are a fine bunch of chaps who will universally do their best to apply the rules sensibly and fairly.
There are plenty of police officers who that description applies to, I'm sure - but that's not an excuse for lawmakers and the justice system to assume it holds universally true.At the end of the day, the police are there - in practice - *to catch potential criminals*.
Sorting out who is and isn't guilty is not their job, that's the job of the courts (as it should be).
So the police don't really have an incentive to be especially fair or reasonable; that's not what we've tasked them with doing.
What lawmakers sometimes seem to fail to understand is that if we pressure them to achieve "catch all the terrorists / criminals" then they'll try to do that, even if they "catch" many innocent people too.
If we give them new tools to do that then *they will use them*.
If the tools we give them are extremely blunt instruments, like the ability to hold innocent people's data on the DNA database, they're going to use them to their fullest extent.
If we want them to behave sensibly, the laws need to be more focused and less open to abuse.It's the same issue with various "anti-terror" laws.
Allegedly local councils in the UK have used these to put people under surveillance for reasons unrelated to terrorism (like whether they're using their rubbish bins correctly and whether they live in the locality of a school they have applied to).
We gave them overly broad legislation and assumed that they wouldn't use it, even though it helps them to do what they see as their job.
None of these organisations can be relied upon to act in the best interests in society because each of them only sees part of the big picture - our politicians are *supposed* to maintain the balance of power with targeted legislation that results in society's best interests being served overall.
That goal can't be reached by handing out disproportionate powers indiscriminately.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216894</id>
	<title>Re:Actaully, it seems pretty accurate</title>
	<author>RiotingPacifist</author>
	<datestamp>1259091960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>1 out of 5 completely innocent people</p></div><p>That's not how statistics work!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 out of 5 completely innocent peopleThat 's not how statistics work !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1 out of 5 completely innocent peopleThat's not how statistics work!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216436</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30238778</id>
	<title>Re:The same should be done</title>
	<author>ground.zero.612</author>
	<datestamp>1259264940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy\_McVeigh" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Tim</a> [wikipedia.org], <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry\_Nichols" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Terry,</a> [wikipedia.org] and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore\_Kaczynski" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Ted</a> [wikipedia.org] would like a word with you.</p><p>That word would be "kaboom".</p><p>The vast majority of "middle east" folks who are here are here because they're tired of all the shit in their home countries. The guy next to me is Iranian; he's here now with his family because he's not going to get dragged into the street by the secret police or arrested because he went to University.</p><p>Most people, no matter where they are from, don't want to blow things up or destroy buildings. (Personally, I realize that some buildings have to be blown up, but that's because of the work I do. Frankly, if you're getting shot at by the Navy, then it's probably not a big loss if we kick you off the planet.) They want to go about their lives without the fear of being blown up or shot at.</p><p>These "Muslims" (and just for the record, not everyone from the middle east is a Muslim.) emigrating to the Western world are often highly-educated (like the non-Muslim Professional Engineer next to me that I referred to earlier), young, and wanting to make a solid contribution to the countries that they are now calling home.</p><p>We were not attacked by Muslims. The attacks on the Cole, the Twin Towers, and the Pentagon were performed by brainwashed puppets controlled by a billionaire megalomanic sociopath who convinced them that they would be better off dead. They were no more Muslim than the Branch Davidians or Manson's followers were whatever religion they purported to be. The Koran is pretty clear about the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" rule, same as the Torah and the Bible. (There are parts like Leviticus in the other texts as well, so don't cut and paste something out of context from a website.) I've had Muslim co-workers, and they are as opposed to violence as anyone else. This includes hating Hamas for rocketing Israel and condemning 9/11 as a travesty.</p><p>The TSA is bullshit security theater, plain and simple.</p><p>We got into this mess from political gaming, not from "liberals". Liberals want the government out of people's lives, smaller government, and no deficit budgets.</p></div><p>Way to go completely off topic and try to turn the focus away from the <strong>fact</strong> that WTC, USS Cole, and many Embassy bombings were committed by men of Middle-Eastern descent, and most if not <em>all</em> were muslimy.

</p><p>I never once tried to suggest people of other ethnic descent are not capable of, or have never committed terrorist acts of aggression. Merely these 3-4 specific incidents were perpetrated by the same groups of hostile muslimy people, and that they are organized by their ethnicity and faith.</p><p>Also, are you really trying to imply that a couple of red-neck hicks that pulled off a couple non-coordinated attacks is anything comparable to entire Middle-East countries supporting extremely coordinated militias that have, do, and will continue to attack us?</p><p>

There are extremely clear distinctions between a couple of disturbed individuals, and entire muslimy countries. One major one being that you can't go to war against 3 people, but you CAN go to war against 3 countries.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tim [ wikipedia.org ] , Terry , [ wikipedia.org ] and Ted [ wikipedia.org ] would like a word with you.That word would be " kaboom " .The vast majority of " middle east " folks who are here are here because they 're tired of all the shit in their home countries .
The guy next to me is Iranian ; he 's here now with his family because he 's not going to get dragged into the street by the secret police or arrested because he went to University.Most people , no matter where they are from , do n't want to blow things up or destroy buildings .
( Personally , I realize that some buildings have to be blown up , but that 's because of the work I do .
Frankly , if you 're getting shot at by the Navy , then it 's probably not a big loss if we kick you off the planet .
) They want to go about their lives without the fear of being blown up or shot at.These " Muslims " ( and just for the record , not everyone from the middle east is a Muslim .
) emigrating to the Western world are often highly-educated ( like the non-Muslim Professional Engineer next to me that I referred to earlier ) , young , and wanting to make a solid contribution to the countries that they are now calling home.We were not attacked by Muslims .
The attacks on the Cole , the Twin Towers , and the Pentagon were performed by brainwashed puppets controlled by a billionaire megalomanic sociopath who convinced them that they would be better off dead .
They were no more Muslim than the Branch Davidians or Manson 's followers were whatever religion they purported to be .
The Koran is pretty clear about the " Thou Shalt Not Kill " rule , same as the Torah and the Bible .
( There are parts like Leviticus in the other texts as well , so do n't cut and paste something out of context from a website .
) I 've had Muslim co-workers , and they are as opposed to violence as anyone else .
This includes hating Hamas for rocketing Israel and condemning 9/11 as a travesty.The TSA is bullshit security theater , plain and simple.We got into this mess from political gaming , not from " liberals " .
Liberals want the government out of people 's lives , smaller government , and no deficit budgets.Way to go completely off topic and try to turn the focus away from the fact that WTC , USS Cole , and many Embassy bombings were committed by men of Middle-Eastern descent , and most if not all were muslimy .
I never once tried to suggest people of other ethnic descent are not capable of , or have never committed terrorist acts of aggression .
Merely these 3-4 specific incidents were perpetrated by the same groups of hostile muslimy people , and that they are organized by their ethnicity and faith.Also , are you really trying to imply that a couple of red-neck hicks that pulled off a couple non-coordinated attacks is anything comparable to entire Middle-East countries supporting extremely coordinated militias that have , do , and will continue to attack us ?
There are extremely clear distinctions between a couple of disturbed individuals , and entire muslimy countries .
One major one being that you ca n't go to war against 3 people , but you CAN go to war against 3 countries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Tim [wikipedia.org], Terry, [wikipedia.org] and Ted [wikipedia.org] would like a word with you.That word would be "kaboom".The vast majority of "middle east" folks who are here are here because they're tired of all the shit in their home countries.
The guy next to me is Iranian; he's here now with his family because he's not going to get dragged into the street by the secret police or arrested because he went to University.Most people, no matter where they are from, don't want to blow things up or destroy buildings.
(Personally, I realize that some buildings have to be blown up, but that's because of the work I do.
Frankly, if you're getting shot at by the Navy, then it's probably not a big loss if we kick you off the planet.
) They want to go about their lives without the fear of being blown up or shot at.These "Muslims" (and just for the record, not everyone from the middle east is a Muslim.
) emigrating to the Western world are often highly-educated (like the non-Muslim Professional Engineer next to me that I referred to earlier), young, and wanting to make a solid contribution to the countries that they are now calling home.We were not attacked by Muslims.
The attacks on the Cole, the Twin Towers, and the Pentagon were performed by brainwashed puppets controlled by a billionaire megalomanic sociopath who convinced them that they would be better off dead.
They were no more Muslim than the Branch Davidians or Manson's followers were whatever religion they purported to be.
The Koran is pretty clear about the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" rule, same as the Torah and the Bible.
(There are parts like Leviticus in the other texts as well, so don't cut and paste something out of context from a website.
) I've had Muslim co-workers, and they are as opposed to violence as anyone else.
This includes hating Hamas for rocketing Israel and condemning 9/11 as a travesty.The TSA is bullshit security theater, plain and simple.We got into this mess from political gaming, not from "liberals".
Liberals want the government out of people's lives, smaller government, and no deficit budgets.Way to go completely off topic and try to turn the focus away from the fact that WTC, USS Cole, and many Embassy bombings were committed by men of Middle-Eastern descent, and most if not all were muslimy.
I never once tried to suggest people of other ethnic descent are not capable of, or have never committed terrorist acts of aggression.
Merely these 3-4 specific incidents were perpetrated by the same groups of hostile muslimy people, and that they are organized by their ethnicity and faith.Also, are you really trying to imply that a couple of red-neck hicks that pulled off a couple non-coordinated attacks is anything comparable to entire Middle-East countries supporting extremely coordinated militias that have, do, and will continue to attack us?
There are extremely clear distinctions between a couple of disturbed individuals, and entire muslimy countries.
One major one being that you can't go to war against 3 people, but you CAN go to war against 3 countries.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217054</id>
	<title>Re:Facts without analysis</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259092620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, i thought that was odd as well. I mean, what if, for political reasons, they decided to skew the prison demographics or arrest rates based purely on 'race'. A back fire if you will.</p><p>"You may have killed someone, mr black, but we see here that you are indeed black and there are too many of you in prison... your free to go".</p><p>I think its dangerous to make a big deal about race in either respect... even the BET channel is pushing it for me, 'cause it does separate people based solely on race. Makes a big stink about race.</p><p>Hell, I'm a red headed Canadian with a penchance for Blues and Soul music... and I feel dirty watching BET, as if i'm doing something wrong as a white man watching a BLACK channel. Why are we moving towards separational thinking again?</p><p>I'm still waiting on the Irish/Scottish history month... I mean I know i'm missing out on a lot of that history as well.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...Queen Boutica the Ician was on Discovery one day. Blew my mind. Irish woman that lead an army of 10 000 to their deaths in a spectacular way against the roman occupation).</p><p>Be nice to get a good solid month for each cultures history. It'd be interesting.</p><p>Just saying...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , i thought that was odd as well .
I mean , what if , for political reasons , they decided to skew the prison demographics or arrest rates based purely on 'race' .
A back fire if you will .
" You may have killed someone , mr black , but we see here that you are indeed black and there are too many of you in prison... your free to go " .I think its dangerous to make a big deal about race in either respect... even the BET channel is pushing it for me , 'cause it does separate people based solely on race .
Makes a big stink about race.Hell , I 'm a red headed Canadian with a penchance for Blues and Soul music... and I feel dirty watching BET , as if i 'm doing something wrong as a white man watching a BLACK channel .
Why are we moving towards separational thinking again ? I 'm still waiting on the Irish/Scottish history month... I mean I know i 'm missing out on a lot of that history as well .
...Queen Boutica the Ician was on Discovery one day .
Blew my mind .
Irish woman that lead an army of 10 000 to their deaths in a spectacular way against the roman occupation ) .Be nice to get a good solid month for each cultures history .
It 'd be interesting.Just saying.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, i thought that was odd as well.
I mean, what if, for political reasons, they decided to skew the prison demographics or arrest rates based purely on 'race'.
A back fire if you will.
"You may have killed someone, mr black, but we see here that you are indeed black and there are too many of you in prison... your free to go".I think its dangerous to make a big deal about race in either respect... even the BET channel is pushing it for me, 'cause it does separate people based solely on race.
Makes a big stink about race.Hell, I'm a red headed Canadian with a penchance for Blues and Soul music... and I feel dirty watching BET, as if i'm doing something wrong as a white man watching a BLACK channel.
Why are we moving towards separational thinking again?I'm still waiting on the Irish/Scottish history month... I mean I know i'm missing out on a lot of that history as well.
...Queen Boutica the Ician was on Discovery one day.
Blew my mind.
Irish woman that lead an army of 10 000 to their deaths in a spectacular way against the roman occupation).Be nice to get a good solid month for each cultures history.
It'd be interesting.Just saying...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216174</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30220526</id>
	<title>Re:Misunderstanding how laws and enforcement works</title>
	<author>Spikeles</author>
	<datestamp>1259065680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>. If the tools we give them are extremely blunt instruments, like the ability to hold innocent people's data on the DNA database, they're going to use them to their fullest extent. If we want them to behave sensibly, the laws need to be more focused and less open to abuse.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Reminds me of that movie, <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133952/" title="imdb.com">The Siege</a> [imdb.com] where the commander warns them not to send in the military to catch the terrorists.<br>
<br>
"Make no mistake, Senator. We will hunt down the enemy, we will find the enemy, and we will kill the enemy. And no card-carrying member of the ACLU is more dead set against it than I am. Which is why I urge you - I implore you. Do not consider this as an option. "</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>.
If the tools we give them are extremely blunt instruments , like the ability to hold innocent people 's data on the DNA database , they 're going to use them to their fullest extent .
If we want them to behave sensibly , the laws need to be more focused and less open to abuse .
Reminds me of that movie , The Siege [ imdb.com ] where the commander warns them not to send in the military to catch the terrorists .
" Make no mistake , Senator .
We will hunt down the enemy , we will find the enemy , and we will kill the enemy .
And no card-carrying member of the ACLU is more dead set against it than I am .
Which is why I urge you - I implore you .
Do not consider this as an option .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.
If the tools we give them are extremely blunt instruments, like the ability to hold innocent people's data on the DNA database, they're going to use them to their fullest extent.
If we want them to behave sensibly, the laws need to be more focused and less open to abuse.
Reminds me of that movie, The Siege [imdb.com] where the commander warns them not to send in the military to catch the terrorists.
"Make no mistake, Senator.
We will hunt down the enemy, we will find the enemy, and we will kill the enemy.
And no card-carrying member of the ACLU is more dead set against it than I am.
Which is why I urge you - I implore you.
Do not consider this as an option.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217084</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216592</id>
	<title>Re:For Starters the Obvious ...</title>
	<author>Znork</author>
	<datestamp>1259090580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>So they started with the politicians then?</i></p><p>That could lead to a criminal record. If you're a politician you won't get a criminal record even if you violate human rights (case in point), torture people or commit war crimes unless you happen to be on the losing side in a war. DNA evidence would make no difference, with what passes for 'rule of law' in 'democratic countries', you could have their signature on a confession, video, multiple witnesses and live broadcasts of them torturing someone to death and a spokesperson would just go 'Mr. Politician does not condone torture' and they'd get away with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So they started with the politicians then ? That could lead to a criminal record .
If you 're a politician you wo n't get a criminal record even if you violate human rights ( case in point ) , torture people or commit war crimes unless you happen to be on the losing side in a war .
DNA evidence would make no difference , with what passes for 'rule of law ' in 'democratic countries ' , you could have their signature on a confession , video , multiple witnesses and live broadcasts of them torturing someone to death and a spokesperson would just go 'Mr .
Politician does not condone torture ' and they 'd get away with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So they started with the politicians then?That could lead to a criminal record.
If you're a politician you won't get a criminal record even if you violate human rights (case in point), torture people or commit war crimes unless you happen to be on the losing side in a war.
DNA evidence would make no difference, with what passes for 'rule of law' in 'democratic countries', you could have their signature on a confession, video, multiple witnesses and live broadcasts of them torturing someone to death and a spokesperson would just go 'Mr.
Politician does not condone torture' and they'd get away with it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216416</id>
	<title>Re:Actaully, it seems pretty accurate</title>
	<author>Shimbo</author>
	<datestamp>1259089620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Than means that for approx 80\% of the people they initially suspected, they were right!</p> </div><p>No, it merely reflects that when the database was set up they only retained the DNA of convicted criminals.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Than means that for approx 80 \ % of the people they initially suspected , they were right !
No , it merely reflects that when the database was set up they only retained the DNA of convicted criminals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Than means that for approx 80\% of the people they initially suspected, they were right!
No, it merely reflects that when the database was set up they only retained the DNA of convicted criminals.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217142</id>
	<title>Re:Just take it at birth like in the USSA</title>
	<author>tibman</author>
	<datestamp>1259093160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gene therapy requires the specific persons DNA because the part that is broken needs to be 'fixed' and reintroduced into the body.  It would be silly to put someone else's DNA into your body.  And of course it is expensive, it's still experimental!</p><p>DNA collection at birth must still be on a very limited scale, my state doesn't do it.  Though we do keep criminal DNA records.  In fact you can go to DNA.gov and look up the numbers for your state as well.</p><p>The Army collects DNA for "Identification purposes only".  Just incase you don't belive me, he is sample text:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>a.  The Department of Defense (DOD) established the DNA Registry Program to aid in the identification of remains.  DNA analysis will supplement fingerprint and dental panographic x-ray identification techniques.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; b.  Medical personnel will collect blood from each soldier.  Specimens will be stored at the DOD, DNA Repository and analyzed only when needed to assist with remains identification.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; c.  The required  sampling frequency is "one time only."  The DOD, DNA Repository will store the specimens for the duration of the soldier's service.  The soldier may request destruction after completing military obligation.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; d.  Access to the stored specimens and DNA typing information will be strictly controlled to protect soldier privacy.</p></div><p>I find it hard to belive that citizens have less control over their DNA when dealing with corporations than Soldiers do with the Government they work for.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gene therapy requires the specific persons DNA because the part that is broken needs to be 'fixed ' and reintroduced into the body .
It would be silly to put someone else 's DNA into your body .
And of course it is expensive , it 's still experimental ! DNA collection at birth must still be on a very limited scale , my state does n't do it .
Though we do keep criminal DNA records .
In fact you can go to DNA.gov and look up the numbers for your state as well.The Army collects DNA for " Identification purposes only " .
Just incase you do n't belive me , he is sample text : a. The Department of Defense ( DOD ) established the DNA Registry Program to aid in the identification of remains .
DNA analysis will supplement fingerprint and dental panographic x-ray identification techniques .
          b. Medical personnel will collect blood from each soldier .
Specimens will be stored at the DOD , DNA Repository and analyzed only when needed to assist with remains identification .
          c. The required sampling frequency is " one time only .
" The DOD , DNA Repository will store the specimens for the duration of the soldier 's service .
The soldier may request destruction after completing military obligation .
        d. Access to the stored specimens and DNA typing information will be strictly controlled to protect soldier privacy.I find it hard to belive that citizens have less control over their DNA when dealing with corporations than Soldiers do with the Government they work for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gene therapy requires the specific persons DNA because the part that is broken needs to be 'fixed' and reintroduced into the body.
It would be silly to put someone else's DNA into your body.
And of course it is expensive, it's still experimental!DNA collection at birth must still be on a very limited scale, my state doesn't do it.
Though we do keep criminal DNA records.
In fact you can go to DNA.gov and look up the numbers for your state as well.The Army collects DNA for "Identification purposes only".
Just incase you don't belive me, he is sample text:a.  The Department of Defense (DOD) established the DNA Registry Program to aid in the identification of remains.
DNA analysis will supplement fingerprint and dental panographic x-ray identification techniques.
          b.  Medical personnel will collect blood from each soldier.
Specimens will be stored at the DOD, DNA Repository and analyzed only when needed to assist with remains identification.
          c.  The required  sampling frequency is "one time only.
"  The DOD, DNA Repository will store the specimens for the duration of the soldier's service.
The soldier may request destruction after completing military obligation.
        d.  Access to the stored specimens and DNA typing information will be strictly controlled to protect soldier privacy.I find it hard to belive that citizens have less control over their DNA when dealing with corporations than Soldiers do with the Government they work for.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216392</id>
	<title>But...</title>
	<author>clang\_jangle</author>
	<datestamp>1259089500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>What about <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/science/18dna.html" title="nytimes.com">this</a> [nytimes.com]? Are we just supposed to pretend it never happened?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What about this [ nytimes.com ] ?
Are we just supposed to pretend it never happened ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about this [nytimes.com]?
Are we just supposed to pretend it never happened?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30219214</id>
	<title>Re:The same should be done</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259059620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Liberals want the government out of people's lives, smaller government, and no deficit budgets."</p><p>Where did you get this information? Have you not noticed the incremental takeover of GM, Chrysler, the banking industry, and now the attempted takeover of healthcare by the most liberal president and congress in the history of the US? Obama alone has spent more in his first year than ALL past presidents in the history of the US combined. You say liberals want small government and no deficit, but yet they are doing just the opposite. Open your eyes!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Liberals want the government out of people 's lives , smaller government , and no deficit budgets .
" Where did you get this information ?
Have you not noticed the incremental takeover of GM , Chrysler , the banking industry , and now the attempted takeover of healthcare by the most liberal president and congress in the history of the US ?
Obama alone has spent more in his first year than ALL past presidents in the history of the US combined .
You say liberals want small government and no deficit , but yet they are doing just the opposite .
Open your eyes !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Liberals want the government out of people's lives, smaller government, and no deficit budgets.
"Where did you get this information?
Have you not noticed the incremental takeover of GM, Chrysler, the banking industry, and now the attempted takeover of healthcare by the most liberal president and congress in the history of the US?
Obama alone has spent more in his first year than ALL past presidents in the history of the US combined.
You say liberals want small government and no deficit, but yet they are doing just the opposite.
Open your eyes!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30221012</id>
	<title>Re:For Starters the Obvious ...</title>
	<author>mdwh2</author>
	<datestamp>1259068560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Part of the problem is that many such people have no problem with such a scheme anyway (I mean, obviously the people arguing in favour of compulsory DNA databases for everyone realise that it would include them - the current tactic of only taking those who are arrested is probably more down to the costs rather than views). And it makes them less likely to see a problem with critics ("my DNA is on the database anyway, why should I worry about yours going on it too?")</p><p>Now, having their DNA publically available (they have our DNA, why can't we have theirs?) might be a better analogy to demonstrate the concerns people have, and be something politicians and police would be less likely to be okay with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Part of the problem is that many such people have no problem with such a scheme anyway ( I mean , obviously the people arguing in favour of compulsory DNA databases for everyone realise that it would include them - the current tactic of only taking those who are arrested is probably more down to the costs rather than views ) .
And it makes them less likely to see a problem with critics ( " my DNA is on the database anyway , why should I worry about yours going on it too ?
" ) Now , having their DNA publically available ( they have our DNA , why ca n't we have theirs ?
) might be a better analogy to demonstrate the concerns people have , and be something politicians and police would be less likely to be okay with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Part of the problem is that many such people have no problem with such a scheme anyway (I mean, obviously the people arguing in favour of compulsory DNA databases for everyone realise that it would include them - the current tactic of only taking those who are arrested is probably more down to the costs rather than views).
And it makes them less likely to see a problem with critics ("my DNA is on the database anyway, why should I worry about yours going on it too?
")Now, having their DNA publically available (they have our DNA, why can't we have theirs?
) might be a better analogy to demonstrate the concerns people have, and be something politicians and police would be less likely to be okay with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217194</id>
	<title>Re:Actaully, it seems pretty accurate</title>
	<author>tibman</author>
	<datestamp>1259093520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Their DNA is stored for identifcation purposes, i don't see how that counts as abuse?  If the DNA is treated like a fingerprint, the only value it has is for identification.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Their DNA is stored for identifcation purposes , i do n't see how that counts as abuse ?
If the DNA is treated like a fingerprint , the only value it has is for identification .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Their DNA is stored for identifcation purposes, i don't see how that counts as abuse?
If the DNA is treated like a fingerprint, the only value it has is for identification.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216436</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216180</id>
	<title>Actaully, it seems pretty accurate</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259088660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Of the 4.5m individuals in the database, a fifth have never received any convictions or cautions from the Police.</p></div><p>Than means that for approx 80\% of the people they initially suspected, they were right! Far be it for me to support Big Brother, but its hard to find fault with a law enforcement system that actually seem to be doing what it is supposed to.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Of the 4.5m individuals in the database , a fifth have never received any convictions or cautions from the Police.Than means that for approx 80 \ % of the people they initially suspected , they were right !
Far be it for me to support Big Brother , but its hard to find fault with a law enforcement system that actually seem to be doing what it is supposed to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of the 4.5m individuals in the database, a fifth have never received any convictions or cautions from the Police.Than means that for approx 80\% of the people they initially suspected, they were right!
Far be it for me to support Big Brother, but its hard to find fault with a law enforcement system that actually seem to be doing what it is supposed to.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217362</id>
	<title>Re:Facts without analysis</title>
	<author>amilo100</author>
	<datestamp>1259094480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I also share this sentiment. Since processing this DNA costs money, to minimize the cost, police should use whatever features there that indicates an individual would be more susceptible to crime. <br> <br>

As another example, the number of samples of men are also probably a lot larger than women. That isn't discrimination - it is statistics.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I also share this sentiment .
Since processing this DNA costs money , to minimize the cost , police should use whatever features there that indicates an individual would be more susceptible to crime .
As another example , the number of samples of men are also probably a lot larger than women .
That is n't discrimination - it is statistics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I also share this sentiment.
Since processing this DNA costs money, to minimize the cost, police should use whatever features there that indicates an individual would be more susceptible to crime.
As another example, the number of samples of men are also probably a lot larger than women.
That isn't discrimination - it is statistics.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216174</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216636</id>
	<title>Re:Facts without analysis</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259090760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sssshhhh... you're only allowed to make comments like that when it refers to 'middle class white guys' like the story yesterday.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sssshhhh... you 're only allowed to make comments like that when it refers to 'middle class white guys ' like the story yesterday .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sssshhhh... you're only allowed to make comments like that when it refers to 'middle class white guys' like the story yesterday.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216174</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30225372</id>
	<title>Re:Just take it at birth like in the USSA</title>
	<author>Sockatume</author>
	<datestamp>1257174000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They <i>patent</i> your DNA? "Method for the creation of John Smith by non-DNA cell contents"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They patent your DNA ?
" Method for the creation of John Smith by non-DNA cell contents " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They patent your DNA?
"Method for the creation of John Smith by non-DNA cell contents"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216470</id>
	<title>Re:For Starters the Obvious ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259089800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly what I was going to say, although I would go farther.  Every politician and police officer (public servant) has to have their families (spouse and children) DNA entered.  Make sure they can't cover for little Johnny if he makes some mischief.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly what I was going to say , although I would go farther .
Every politician and police officer ( public servant ) has to have their families ( spouse and children ) DNA entered .
Make sure they ca n't cover for little Johnny if he makes some mischief .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly what I was going to say, although I would go farther.
Every politician and police officer (public servant) has to have their families (spouse and children) DNA entered.
Make sure they can't cover for little Johnny if he makes some mischief.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216252</id>
	<title>mod Up</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259089020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can. [No,</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can .
[ No,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can.
[No,</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216170</id>
	<title>enjoy your police state</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259088600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seriously, America may be full of religious idiots who believe some bible over empirical evidence but at least the States aren't an orwellian nightmare of a police state that makes the DPRK look like the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.</p><p>How do you Brits tolerate this on a daily basis? Hell, you can't even have real knives because mummy + doddy took them away from you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , America may be full of religious idiots who believe some bible over empirical evidence but at least the States are n't an orwellian nightmare of a police state that makes the DPRK look like the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.How do you Brits tolerate this on a daily basis ?
Hell , you ca n't even have real knives because mummy + doddy took them away from you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, America may be full of religious idiots who believe some bible over empirical evidence but at least the States aren't an orwellian nightmare of a police state that makes the DPRK look like the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.How do you Brits tolerate this on a daily basis?
Hell, you can't even have real knives because mummy + doddy took them away from you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217174</id>
	<title>Criminal offense?</title>
	<author>kungfugleek</author>
	<datestamp>1259093400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>... and making misuse of the information a criminal offense.</p></div><p>
Wait a sec.  You mean it isn't a criminal offense already???</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... and making misuse of the information a criminal offense .
Wait a sec .
You mean it is n't a criminal offense already ? ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ... and making misuse of the information a criminal offense.
Wait a sec.
You mean it isn't a criminal offense already??
?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216450</id>
	<title>No Different Than</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259089740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>their colonial regime for whom the U.S.A. still works.</p><p>Yours In Ashgabat,<br>K.T.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>their colonial regime for whom the U.S.A. still works.Yours In Ashgabat,K.T .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>their colonial regime for whom the U.S.A. still works.Yours In Ashgabat,K.T.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30218916</id>
	<title>Re:For Starters the Obvious ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259058120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ask Sally Anne Bowman's parents if they think the system is being used to generate false positives.</p><p>See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder\_of\_Sally\_Anne\_Bowman" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">here</a> [wikipedia.org] (Wikipedia) or <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1579463/Mark-Dixie-gets-life-for-Sally-Anne-Bowman-murder.html" title="telegraph.co.uk" rel="nofollow">here</a> [telegraph.co.uk] (Telegraph) or <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7228325.stm" title="bbc.co.uk" rel="nofollow">here</a> [bbc.co.uk] (BBC) for reasons why DNA collection can be a good thing.</p><p>Unfortunately we don't hang scum anymore, but at least Mark Dixie is inside where hopefully he's having long unpleasant showers. That wouldn't have been the case if Dixie's DNA had not been on the database.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ask Sally Anne Bowman 's parents if they think the system is being used to generate false positives.See here [ wikipedia.org ] ( Wikipedia ) or here [ telegraph.co.uk ] ( Telegraph ) or here [ bbc.co.uk ] ( BBC ) for reasons why DNA collection can be a good thing.Unfortunately we do n't hang scum anymore , but at least Mark Dixie is inside where hopefully he 's having long unpleasant showers .
That would n't have been the case if Dixie 's DNA had not been on the database .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ask Sally Anne Bowman's parents if they think the system is being used to generate false positives.See here [wikipedia.org] (Wikipedia) or here [telegraph.co.uk] (Telegraph) or here [bbc.co.uk] (BBC) for reasons why DNA collection can be a good thing.Unfortunately we don't hang scum anymore, but at least Mark Dixie is inside where hopefully he's having long unpleasant showers.
That wouldn't have been the case if Dixie's DNA had not been on the database.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216796</id>
	<title>Idiot Juries</title>
	<author>ThatsNotPudding</author>
	<datestamp>1259091540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>that think any DNA evidence presented is absolute, pure, handed-down-from-god-almighty proof of guilt are a big part of the problem.  Especially if you have a giant, tailor-made repository of DNA already harvested from 'The Usual Suspects' to help 'solve' those pesky cases that stand in the way of pay raises, big promotions, or running for political office on a law and order platform.  Just sprinkle your handy sample of pre-collected DNA liberally at that stone-cold-whodunit crime scene and announce "Hey, look what I found!".</htmltext>
<tokenext>that think any DNA evidence presented is absolute , pure , handed-down-from-god-almighty proof of guilt are a big part of the problem .
Especially if you have a giant , tailor-made repository of DNA already harvested from 'The Usual Suspects ' to help 'solve ' those pesky cases that stand in the way of pay raises , big promotions , or running for political office on a law and order platform .
Just sprinkle your handy sample of pre-collected DNA liberally at that stone-cold-whodunit crime scene and announce " Hey , look what I found !
" .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that think any DNA evidence presented is absolute, pure, handed-down-from-god-almighty proof of guilt are a big part of the problem.
Especially if you have a giant, tailor-made repository of DNA already harvested from 'The Usual Suspects' to help 'solve' those pesky cases that stand in the way of pay raises, big promotions, or running for political office on a law and order platform.
Just sprinkle your handy sample of pre-collected DNA liberally at that stone-cold-whodunit crime scene and announce "Hey, look what I found!
".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30223646</id>
	<title>Re:The same should be done</title>
	<author>vegiVamp</author>
	<datestamp>1257152940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Must not be a lot of liberals in the liberal party, then.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Must not be a lot of liberals in the liberal party , then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Must not be a lot of liberals in the liberal party, then.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216854</id>
	<title>Re:The same should be done</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259091780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy\_McVeigh" title="wikipedia.org">Tim</a> [wikipedia.org], <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry\_Nichols" title="wikipedia.org">Terry,</a> [wikipedia.org] and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore\_Kaczynski" title="wikipedia.org">Ted</a> [wikipedia.org] would like a word with you.</p><p>That word would be "kaboom".</p><p>The vast majority of "middle east" folks who are here are here because they're tired of all the shit in their home countries. The guy next to me is Iranian; he's here now with his family because he's not going to get dragged into the street by the secret police or arrested because he went to University.</p><p>Most people, no matter where they are from, don't want to blow things up or destroy buildings. (Personally, I realize that some buildings have to be blown up, but that's because of the work I do. Frankly, if you're getting shot at by the Navy, then it's probably not a big loss if we kick you off the planet.) They want to go about their lives without the fear of being blown up or shot at.</p><p>These "Muslims" (and just for the record, not everyone from the middle east is a Muslim.) emigrating to the Western world are often highly-educated (like the non-Muslim Professional Engineer next to me that I referred to earlier), young, and wanting to make a solid contribution to the countries that they are now calling home.</p><p>We were not attacked by Muslims. The attacks on the Cole, the Twin Towers, and the Pentagon were performed by brainwashed puppets controlled by a billionaire megalomanic sociopath who convinced them that they would be better off dead. They were no more Muslim than the Branch Davidians or Manson's followers were whatever religion they purported to be. The Koran is pretty clear about the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" rule, same as the Torah and the Bible. (There are parts like Leviticus in the other texts as well, so don't cut and paste something out of context from a website.) I've had Muslim co-workers, and they are as opposed to violence as anyone else. This includes hating Hamas for rocketing Israel and condemning 9/11 as a travesty.</p><p>The TSA is bullshit security theater, plain and simple.</p><p>We got into this mess from political gaming, not from "liberals". Liberals want the government out of people's lives, smaller government, and no deficit budgets.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Tim [ wikipedia.org ] , Terry , [ wikipedia.org ] and Ted [ wikipedia.org ] would like a word with you.That word would be " kaboom " .The vast majority of " middle east " folks who are here are here because they 're tired of all the shit in their home countries .
The guy next to me is Iranian ; he 's here now with his family because he 's not going to get dragged into the street by the secret police or arrested because he went to University.Most people , no matter where they are from , do n't want to blow things up or destroy buildings .
( Personally , I realize that some buildings have to be blown up , but that 's because of the work I do .
Frankly , if you 're getting shot at by the Navy , then it 's probably not a big loss if we kick you off the planet .
) They want to go about their lives without the fear of being blown up or shot at.These " Muslims " ( and just for the record , not everyone from the middle east is a Muslim .
) emigrating to the Western world are often highly-educated ( like the non-Muslim Professional Engineer next to me that I referred to earlier ) , young , and wanting to make a solid contribution to the countries that they are now calling home.We were not attacked by Muslims .
The attacks on the Cole , the Twin Towers , and the Pentagon were performed by brainwashed puppets controlled by a billionaire megalomanic sociopath who convinced them that they would be better off dead .
They were no more Muslim than the Branch Davidians or Manson 's followers were whatever religion they purported to be .
The Koran is pretty clear about the " Thou Shalt Not Kill " rule , same as the Torah and the Bible .
( There are parts like Leviticus in the other texts as well , so do n't cut and paste something out of context from a website .
) I 've had Muslim co-workers , and they are as opposed to violence as anyone else .
This includes hating Hamas for rocketing Israel and condemning 9/11 as a travesty.The TSA is bullshit security theater , plain and simple.We got into this mess from political gaming , not from " liberals " .
Liberals want the government out of people 's lives , smaller government , and no deficit budgets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tim [wikipedia.org], Terry, [wikipedia.org] and Ted [wikipedia.org] would like a word with you.That word would be "kaboom".The vast majority of "middle east" folks who are here are here because they're tired of all the shit in their home countries.
The guy next to me is Iranian; he's here now with his family because he's not going to get dragged into the street by the secret police or arrested because he went to University.Most people, no matter where they are from, don't want to blow things up or destroy buildings.
(Personally, I realize that some buildings have to be blown up, but that's because of the work I do.
Frankly, if you're getting shot at by the Navy, then it's probably not a big loss if we kick you off the planet.
) They want to go about their lives without the fear of being blown up or shot at.These "Muslims" (and just for the record, not everyone from the middle east is a Muslim.
) emigrating to the Western world are often highly-educated (like the non-Muslim Professional Engineer next to me that I referred to earlier), young, and wanting to make a solid contribution to the countries that they are now calling home.We were not attacked by Muslims.
The attacks on the Cole, the Twin Towers, and the Pentagon were performed by brainwashed puppets controlled by a billionaire megalomanic sociopath who convinced them that they would be better off dead.
They were no more Muslim than the Branch Davidians or Manson's followers were whatever religion they purported to be.
The Koran is pretty clear about the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" rule, same as the Torah and the Bible.
(There are parts like Leviticus in the other texts as well, so don't cut and paste something out of context from a website.
) I've had Muslim co-workers, and they are as opposed to violence as anyone else.
This includes hating Hamas for rocketing Israel and condemning 9/11 as a travesty.The TSA is bullshit security theater, plain and simple.We got into this mess from political gaming, not from "liberals".
Liberals want the government out of people's lives, smaller government, and no deficit budgets.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216362</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216222</id>
	<title>Re:Actaully, it seems pretty accurate</title>
	<author>Duradin</author>
	<datestamp>1259088840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Throw enough charges at someone and eventually *something* will stick.</p><p>There's enough laws out there that everyone has broken at least one of them or some "interpretation" of one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Throw enough charges at someone and eventually * something * will stick.There 's enough laws out there that everyone has broken at least one of them or some " interpretation " of one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Throw enough charges at someone and eventually *something* will stick.There's enough laws out there that everyone has broken at least one of them or some "interpretation" of one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30219402</id>
	<title>Re:Actaully, it seems pretty accurate</title>
	<author>cdrguru</author>
	<datestamp>1259060460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sorry, but that is how it works with or without DNA.  If someone sees you with the "person on the street" and they end up dead, you are a suspect simply because someone - or a camera - saw you, or thinks they saw you.  Or saw someone that after obfuscation through a sketch artist ends up with a drawing that looks sort of like you.  And they fax the picture around enough until someone says "Oh yeah, I know that guy."</p><p>The police pretty much have an impossible task today.  80-90\% of crimes go without anyone being convicted simply because of the volume and potential number of suspects.  If there is something to grab onto - like a picture from a camera or a "eyewitness" - they are going to use this no matter how unlikely it is that this information is really accurate.  The police are there to catch people so they can be prosecuted, successfully or unsuccessfully.  If the prosecution is unsuccessful, then maybe it was because they were innocent.</p><p>How did we get ourselves into this mess?  Well, mostly I'd say because today at least 50\% of the population of the US just doesn't believe they are going to get caught, so why not commit the crime?  70 years ago the police could count on only a small "criminal element", people that would potentially commit crimes.  Today, they can't make that assumption - so the assumption is everyone is potentially a criminal.  This is absolutely borne out by retail shoplifting statistics.  Today, without extraordinary measures in place 10\% of the people coming into a store are there to steal.</p><p>So why are they treating people like criminals?  Perhaps because they deserve it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , but that is how it works with or without DNA .
If someone sees you with the " person on the street " and they end up dead , you are a suspect simply because someone - or a camera - saw you , or thinks they saw you .
Or saw someone that after obfuscation through a sketch artist ends up with a drawing that looks sort of like you .
And they fax the picture around enough until someone says " Oh yeah , I know that guy .
" The police pretty much have an impossible task today .
80-90 \ % of crimes go without anyone being convicted simply because of the volume and potential number of suspects .
If there is something to grab onto - like a picture from a camera or a " eyewitness " - they are going to use this no matter how unlikely it is that this information is really accurate .
The police are there to catch people so they can be prosecuted , successfully or unsuccessfully .
If the prosecution is unsuccessful , then maybe it was because they were innocent.How did we get ourselves into this mess ?
Well , mostly I 'd say because today at least 50 \ % of the population of the US just does n't believe they are going to get caught , so why not commit the crime ?
70 years ago the police could count on only a small " criminal element " , people that would potentially commit crimes .
Today , they ca n't make that assumption - so the assumption is everyone is potentially a criminal .
This is absolutely borne out by retail shoplifting statistics .
Today , without extraordinary measures in place 10 \ % of the people coming into a store are there to steal.So why are they treating people like criminals ?
Perhaps because they deserve it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, but that is how it works with or without DNA.
If someone sees you with the "person on the street" and they end up dead, you are a suspect simply because someone - or a camera - saw you, or thinks they saw you.
Or saw someone that after obfuscation through a sketch artist ends up with a drawing that looks sort of like you.
And they fax the picture around enough until someone says "Oh yeah, I know that guy.
"The police pretty much have an impossible task today.
80-90\% of crimes go without anyone being convicted simply because of the volume and potential number of suspects.
If there is something to grab onto - like a picture from a camera or a "eyewitness" - they are going to use this no matter how unlikely it is that this information is really accurate.
The police are there to catch people so they can be prosecuted, successfully or unsuccessfully.
If the prosecution is unsuccessful, then maybe it was because they were innocent.How did we get ourselves into this mess?
Well, mostly I'd say because today at least 50\% of the population of the US just doesn't believe they are going to get caught, so why not commit the crime?
70 years ago the police could count on only a small "criminal element", people that would potentially commit crimes.
Today, they can't make that assumption - so the assumption is everyone is potentially a criminal.
This is absolutely borne out by retail shoplifting statistics.
Today, without extraordinary measures in place 10\% of the people coming into a store are there to steal.So why are they treating people like criminals?
Perhaps because they deserve it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216720</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30225018</id>
	<title>Re:The same should be done</title>
	<author>Sockatume</author>
	<datestamp>1257170760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The people we are fighting are Middle-East Muslims. </i></p><p>So? Up until then almost all the US's domestic terrorists were white US-born males. I didn't see them getting rounded up and given extra screening at the airport while everyone else was waved through.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The people we are fighting are Middle-East Muslims .
So ? Up until then almost all the US 's domestic terrorists were white US-born males .
I did n't see them getting rounded up and given extra screening at the airport while everyone else was waved through .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The people we are fighting are Middle-East Muslims.
So? Up until then almost all the US's domestic terrorists were white US-born males.
I didn't see them getting rounded up and given extra screening at the airport while everyone else was waved through.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216362</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216708</id>
	<title>I have a bad feeling about this</title>
	<author>mbone</author>
	<datestamp>1259091180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't say it's surprising that there is " 'very little concrete evidence' that the DNA database had any actual use in investigating crime." If you look at the UK, the trend lines all seem very alarming -  billions of pounds spent on crime fighting theater that doesn't actually fight crime, loss of basic freedoms at a rate even the Tudors or the Puritans would have found alarming, all with no apparent actual oversight of any of it. This just seems part of the same pattern.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't say it 's surprising that there is " 'very little concrete evidence ' that the DNA database had any actual use in investigating crime .
" If you look at the UK , the trend lines all seem very alarming - billions of pounds spent on crime fighting theater that does n't actually fight crime , loss of basic freedoms at a rate even the Tudors or the Puritans would have found alarming , all with no apparent actual oversight of any of it .
This just seems part of the same pattern .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't say it's surprising that there is " 'very little concrete evidence' that the DNA database had any actual use in investigating crime.
" If you look at the UK, the trend lines all seem very alarming -  billions of pounds spent on crime fighting theater that doesn't actually fight crime, loss of basic freedoms at a rate even the Tudors or the Puritans would have found alarming, all with no apparent actual oversight of any of it.
This just seems part of the same pattern.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216868</id>
	<title>Re:Just take it at birth like in the USSA</title>
	<author>MightyMartian</author>
	<datestamp>1259091840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What good would DNA have done them in the 1970s (or earlier)?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What good would DNA have done them in the 1970s ( or earlier ) ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What good would DNA have done them in the 1970s (or earlier)?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216298</id>
	<title>Re:The same should be done</title>
	<author>sorton9999</author>
	<datestamp>1259089140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Right.  In the U.S., fingerprints are kept indefinitely.  At least in the local law enforcement offices.  But they are viewable/searchable by other agencies as well.  The reason they keep these is for identification purposes other than crimes such as after death or missing person, etc.  I'm sure DNA will be kept for the same reasons.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Right .
In the U.S. , fingerprints are kept indefinitely .
At least in the local law enforcement offices .
But they are viewable/searchable by other agencies as well .
The reason they keep these is for identification purposes other than crimes such as after death or missing person , etc .
I 'm sure DNA will be kept for the same reasons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right.
In the U.S., fingerprints are kept indefinitely.
At least in the local law enforcement offices.
But they are viewable/searchable by other agencies as well.
The reason they keep these is for identification purposes other than crimes such as after death or missing person, etc.
I'm sure DNA will be kept for the same reasons.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216152</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216274</id>
	<title>Just take it at birth like in the USSA</title>
	<author>megamerican</author>
	<datestamp>1259089080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here in the United States they've taken your DNA from birth since the 1970's (even earlier if you were in the military or other government programs). Every state does it. They bury the "consent" form in the mountains of paperwork you need to sign while at the hospital. That's if they haven't gotten rid of the consent requirement. Minnesota got rid of parental consent in 1997.</p><p>Even though some states let you "opt out" by having them destroy the blood samples after the tests they still keep all the information obtained. They then sell that information to companies, who then patent your DNA. If you ever require gene therapy you'll have to pay that company a large sum to use your own DNA. Who knows what else they do to it.</p><p><a href="http://www.cchconline.org/pdf/MINORITY\%20REPORT\%20Genetic\%20Info\%20-\%20FINAL.pdf" title="cchconline.org">http://www.cchconline.org/pdf/MINORITY\%20REPORT\%20Genetic\%20Info\%20-\%20FINAL.pdf</a> [cchconline.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in the United States they 've taken your DNA from birth since the 1970 's ( even earlier if you were in the military or other government programs ) .
Every state does it .
They bury the " consent " form in the mountains of paperwork you need to sign while at the hospital .
That 's if they have n't gotten rid of the consent requirement .
Minnesota got rid of parental consent in 1997.Even though some states let you " opt out " by having them destroy the blood samples after the tests they still keep all the information obtained .
They then sell that information to companies , who then patent your DNA .
If you ever require gene therapy you 'll have to pay that company a large sum to use your own DNA .
Who knows what else they do to it.http : //www.cchconline.org/pdf/MINORITY \ % 20REPORT \ % 20Genetic \ % 20Info \ % 20- \ % 20FINAL.pdf [ cchconline.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in the United States they've taken your DNA from birth since the 1970's (even earlier if you were in the military or other government programs).
Every state does it.
They bury the "consent" form in the mountains of paperwork you need to sign while at the hospital.
That's if they haven't gotten rid of the consent requirement.
Minnesota got rid of parental consent in 1997.Even though some states let you "opt out" by having them destroy the blood samples after the tests they still keep all the information obtained.
They then sell that information to companies, who then patent your DNA.
If you ever require gene therapy you'll have to pay that company a large sum to use your own DNA.
Who knows what else they do to it.http://www.cchconline.org/pdf/MINORITY\%20REPORT\%20Genetic\%20Info\%20-\%20FINAL.pdf [cchconline.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30218704</id>
	<title>Re:For Starters the Obvious ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259057400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They should collect DNA from all the Whales they can find, you know in case they go extinct. j/k</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They should collect DNA from all the Whales they can find , you know in case they go extinct .
j/k</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They should collect DNA from all the Whales they can find, you know in case they go extinct.
j/k</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216138</id>
	<title>For Starters the Obvious ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259088420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Police collect DNA from every suspect in a case which could lead to a criminal record<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p> </div><p>So they started with the politicians then?  <br> <br>

I'm serious though, the people who passed this and put it into place should first enter their own DNA into the system as a sign of good faith and unwavering confidence that this system will never be used negatively to persecute anyone nor will it ever produce a false positive on a match.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Police collect DNA from every suspect in a case which could lead to a criminal record ... So they started with the politicians then ?
I 'm serious though , the people who passed this and put it into place should first enter their own DNA into the system as a sign of good faith and unwavering confidence that this system will never be used negatively to persecute anyone nor will it ever produce a false positive on a match .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Police collect DNA from every suspect in a case which could lead to a criminal record ... So they started with the politicians then?
I'm serious though, the people who passed this and put it into place should first enter their own DNA into the system as a sign of good faith and unwavering confidence that this system will never be used negatively to persecute anyone nor will it ever produce a false positive on a match.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30223870</id>
	<title>Re:For Starters the Obvious ...</title>
	<author>mahadiga</author>
	<datestamp>1257156000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>the people who passed this and put it into place should first enter their own DNA</p></div></blockquote><p>
I'd recommend periodic <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco\_Analysis" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Narco Test</a> [wikipedia.org]on politicians <i>integrity.</i></p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the people who passed this and put it into place should first enter their own DNA I 'd recommend periodic Narco Test [ wikipedia.org ] on politicians integrity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the people who passed this and put it into place should first enter their own DNA
I'd recommend periodic Narco Test [wikipedia.org]on politicians integrity.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216610</id>
	<title>Re:who watches the watchmen</title>
	<author>SnarfQuest</author>
	<datestamp>1259090700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The aliens, who are using the DNA samples to create a tasty snack food.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The aliens , who are using the DNA samples to create a tasty snack food .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The aliens, who are using the DNA samples to create a tasty snack food.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216162</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216436</id>
	<title>Re:Actaully, it seems pretty accurate</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259089680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not necessarily. <br>
<br>

80\% has had some sort of infraction, but nothing says that they were bled as a result of those actual infractions (or just erroneously picked up later) let alone if the crime was serious to make the gov't body think, "We better keep an eye on this wily-eyed criminal."<br>
<br>


Moreover, 80\% is acceptable? Seriously? 1 out of 5 completely innocent people abused by the system is completely acceptable? You either have extremely low standards or work in law enforcement, criminal prosecution, or corrections.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not necessarily .
80 \ % has had some sort of infraction , but nothing says that they were bled as a result of those actual infractions ( or just erroneously picked up later ) let alone if the crime was serious to make the gov't body think , " We better keep an eye on this wily-eyed criminal .
" Moreover , 80 \ % is acceptable ?
Seriously ? 1 out of 5 completely innocent people abused by the system is completely acceptable ?
You either have extremely low standards or work in law enforcement , criminal prosecution , or corrections .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not necessarily.
80\% has had some sort of infraction, but nothing says that they were bled as a result of those actual infractions (or just erroneously picked up later) let alone if the crime was serious to make the gov't body think, "We better keep an eye on this wily-eyed criminal.
"



Moreover, 80\% is acceptable?
Seriously? 1 out of 5 completely innocent people abused by the system is completely acceptable?
You either have extremely low standards or work in law enforcement, criminal prosecution, or corrections.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216722</id>
	<title>Re:enjoy your police state</title>
	<author>SnarfQuest</author>
	<datestamp>1259091240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just wait for the health insurance bill to pass. This will give the Obama administration access to everyones health records, DNA, as well as another 1/6 of their salary. He will have the capability to deny you and your family health care for whatever reason he wants.</p><p>So be sure to vote for the "right" candidates (democrates only), obey their rules (you must weigh the correct amount, no smoking or drinking allowed, popcorn is forbidden, no meat, etc). Or you can become a democratic senator, and the laws will not apply to you. You can even drown someone, and nobody will ever care.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just wait for the health insurance bill to pass .
This will give the Obama administration access to everyones health records , DNA , as well as another 1/6 of their salary .
He will have the capability to deny you and your family health care for whatever reason he wants.So be sure to vote for the " right " candidates ( democrates only ) , obey their rules ( you must weigh the correct amount , no smoking or drinking allowed , popcorn is forbidden , no meat , etc ) .
Or you can become a democratic senator , and the laws will not apply to you .
You can even drown someone , and nobody will ever care .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just wait for the health insurance bill to pass.
This will give the Obama administration access to everyones health records, DNA, as well as another 1/6 of their salary.
He will have the capability to deny you and your family health care for whatever reason he wants.So be sure to vote for the "right" candidates (democrates only), obey their rules (you must weigh the correct amount, no smoking or drinking allowed, popcorn is forbidden, no meat, etc).
Or you can become a democratic senator, and the laws will not apply to you.
You can even drown someone, and nobody will ever care.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216170</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216524</id>
	<title>Re:The same should be done</title>
	<author>TheCarp</author>
	<datestamp>1259090160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Such evidence should only be collected without consent with a warrant and if the individual is not charged and<br>&gt; convicted with a crime such evidence should be removed from any database/storage and destroyed/deleted. If it is<br>&gt; taken with consent then the individual should have the right to ask that it be destroyed after the investigation<br>&gt; is complete.</p><p>Agreed but... the measure also needs teeth. There should be STRONG penalties for NOT destroying evidence that should be destroyed. In fact, I would say that the standard should be that DNA evidence may be collected and used for a test, if that test comes back negative, all samples (and data) MUST be destroyed.</p><p>If it comes back positive, then start a clock. When the clock runs out, either charges must be filed, or all samples and data MUST be destroyed.</p><p>Failure to follow this should be considered a civil rights violation, and should have stiff "ram them up the ass" penalties. CRIMINAL penalties. Career ending penalties.</p><p>Then, some idiot will break that law, get caught, and have his career ended, and spend time in JAIL for his crime. THEN the police will follow the law.</p><p>Not that any of this will happen. Just thats the best way I see to close this severe gap.<br>-Steve</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Such evidence should only be collected without consent with a warrant and if the individual is not charged and &gt; convicted with a crime such evidence should be removed from any database/storage and destroyed/deleted .
If it is &gt; taken with consent then the individual should have the right to ask that it be destroyed after the investigation &gt; is complete.Agreed but... the measure also needs teeth .
There should be STRONG penalties for NOT destroying evidence that should be destroyed .
In fact , I would say that the standard should be that DNA evidence may be collected and used for a test , if that test comes back negative , all samples ( and data ) MUST be destroyed.If it comes back positive , then start a clock .
When the clock runs out , either charges must be filed , or all samples and data MUST be destroyed.Failure to follow this should be considered a civil rights violation , and should have stiff " ram them up the ass " penalties .
CRIMINAL penalties .
Career ending penalties.Then , some idiot will break that law , get caught , and have his career ended , and spend time in JAIL for his crime .
THEN the police will follow the law.Not that any of this will happen .
Just thats the best way I see to close this severe gap.-Steve</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Such evidence should only be collected without consent with a warrant and if the individual is not charged and&gt; convicted with a crime such evidence should be removed from any database/storage and destroyed/deleted.
If it is&gt; taken with consent then the individual should have the right to ask that it be destroyed after the investigation&gt; is complete.Agreed but... the measure also needs teeth.
There should be STRONG penalties for NOT destroying evidence that should be destroyed.
In fact, I would say that the standard should be that DNA evidence may be collected and used for a test, if that test comes back negative, all samples (and data) MUST be destroyed.If it comes back positive, then start a clock.
When the clock runs out, either charges must be filed, or all samples and data MUST be destroyed.Failure to follow this should be considered a civil rights violation, and should have stiff "ram them up the ass" penalties.
CRIMINAL penalties.
Career ending penalties.Then, some idiot will break that law, get caught, and have his career ended, and spend time in JAIL for his crime.
THEN the police will follow the law.Not that any of this will happen.
Just thats the best way I see to close this severe gap.-Steve</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216152</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217870</id>
	<title>What would making misuse illegal accomplish?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259053500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is a police likely to file charges against another policeman?<br>Is a police likely to file charges against a Prosecutor?</p><p>Who exactly is going to file charges against who in order for<br>this illegality to have real effect?   If something is illegal,<br>then someone is at risk of going to jail.  Who exactly is at<br>risk when the people who have access are all law enforcers?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is a police likely to file charges against another policeman ? Is a police likely to file charges against a Prosecutor ? Who exactly is going to file charges against who in order forthis illegality to have real effect ?
If something is illegal,then someone is at risk of going to jail .
Who exactly is atrisk when the people who have access are all law enforcers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is a police likely to file charges against another policeman?Is a police likely to file charges against a Prosecutor?Who exactly is going to file charges against who in order forthis illegality to have real effect?
If something is illegal,then someone is at risk of going to jail.
Who exactly is atrisk when the people who have access are all law enforcers?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216384</id>
	<title>Re:Actaully, it seems pretty accurate</title>
	<author>royallthefourth</author>
	<datestamp>1259089440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Did you miss the part about "cautions from the police"?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Did you miss the part about " cautions from the police " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did you miss the part about "cautions from the police"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216622</id>
	<title>Re:enjoy your police state</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259090700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Hell, you can't even have real knives </p></div><p>So, I'm imagining the cutlery in the drawer in my kitchen? Oh shit...<i>*picks up phone and starts dialling*</i>....Hello, Doctor, I think I need stronger medication--I'm seeing forks again!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hell , you ca n't even have real knives So , I 'm imagining the cutlery in the drawer in my kitchen ?
Oh shit... * picks up phone and starts dialling * ....Hello , Doctor , I think I need stronger medication--I 'm seeing forks again !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hell, you can't even have real knives So, I'm imagining the cutlery in the drawer in my kitchen?
Oh shit...*picks up phone and starts dialling*....Hello, Doctor, I think I need stronger medication--I'm seeing forks again!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216170</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217796</id>
	<title>Re:For Starters the Obvious ...</title>
	<author>ISoldat53</author>
	<datestamp>1259096340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A good police force is one that commits fewer crimes than is solves.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A good police force is one that commits fewer crimes than is solves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A good police force is one that commits fewer crimes than is solves.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216138</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216720</id>
	<title>Re:Actaully, it seems pretty accurate</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259091240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is that the police use DNA for fishing expeditions instead of doing real police work. Rather than bothering to investigate and find likely suspects that they can then interview and perhaps ask for a DNA sample, they just arrest anyone who has merely been accused and take their DNA. Even if it turns out that are completely innocent that DNA is kept forever and tested against all future crimes.</p><p>Let's say you accidentally brush against someone on the street. A few days later the police arrest you because a hair with your DNA was found at the scene of a child rape and murder. You now have to explain how your hair got there (it landed on the clothes of the person you passed in the street and was transported there) and your whareabouts at the time of the crime. You will need to involve other people to confirm your alibi, which means they will find out that you are a suspect in a child rape and murder. You will not be able to go to work while in custody, and will have to explain your absence to your employer.</p><p>All because the police couldn't be bothered to try and figure out who might have done it, they just grabbed any DNA from the scene and looked in their database, then arrested everyone who matched to see who could provide an alibi.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that the police use DNA for fishing expeditions instead of doing real police work .
Rather than bothering to investigate and find likely suspects that they can then interview and perhaps ask for a DNA sample , they just arrest anyone who has merely been accused and take their DNA .
Even if it turns out that are completely innocent that DNA is kept forever and tested against all future crimes.Let 's say you accidentally brush against someone on the street .
A few days later the police arrest you because a hair with your DNA was found at the scene of a child rape and murder .
You now have to explain how your hair got there ( it landed on the clothes of the person you passed in the street and was transported there ) and your whareabouts at the time of the crime .
You will need to involve other people to confirm your alibi , which means they will find out that you are a suspect in a child rape and murder .
You will not be able to go to work while in custody , and will have to explain your absence to your employer.All because the police could n't be bothered to try and figure out who might have done it , they just grabbed any DNA from the scene and looked in their database , then arrested everyone who matched to see who could provide an alibi .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that the police use DNA for fishing expeditions instead of doing real police work.
Rather than bothering to investigate and find likely suspects that they can then interview and perhaps ask for a DNA sample, they just arrest anyone who has merely been accused and take their DNA.
Even if it turns out that are completely innocent that DNA is kept forever and tested against all future crimes.Let's say you accidentally brush against someone on the street.
A few days later the police arrest you because a hair with your DNA was found at the scene of a child rape and murder.
You now have to explain how your hair got there (it landed on the clothes of the person you passed in the street and was transported there) and your whareabouts at the time of the crime.
You will need to involve other people to confirm your alibi, which means they will find out that you are a suspect in a child rape and murder.
You will not be able to go to work while in custody, and will have to explain your absence to your employer.All because the police couldn't be bothered to try and figure out who might have done it, they just grabbed any DNA from the scene and looked in their database, then arrested everyone who matched to see who could provide an alibi.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216680</id>
	<title>Re:The same should be done</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1259091000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Your myopia is impressive.<br> <br>

Shocking though it may be, security measures are usually designed with <i>multiple</i> potential threats in mind. And it is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy\_mcveigh" title="wikipedia.org">not unknown</a> [wikipedia.org] for good Christian White boys to take up rather dramatic forms of political activism. And Black guys have been known <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John\_Allen\_Muhammad" title="wikipedia.org">to be problematic</a> [wikipedia.org] from time to time.<br> <br>

It's pathetic, really. In your zeal to protect yourself from the OMGSCARY terrorists, you end up losing all perspective and succumbing to hysteria. You can't even keep the <i>recent history of terrorist activity in the United States</i> in mind, much less a proper historical perspective(not to mention broader risk comparisons; ~40,000 people a year die driving, and you are losing your shit over rare events that claim less than a tenth that number? Pitiful.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your myopia is impressive .
Shocking though it may be , security measures are usually designed with multiple potential threats in mind .
And it is not unknown [ wikipedia.org ] for good Christian White boys to take up rather dramatic forms of political activism .
And Black guys have been known to be problematic [ wikipedia.org ] from time to time .
It 's pathetic , really .
In your zeal to protect yourself from the OMGSCARY terrorists , you end up losing all perspective and succumbing to hysteria .
You ca n't even keep the recent history of terrorist activity in the United States in mind , much less a proper historical perspective ( not to mention broader risk comparisons ; ~ 40,000 people a year die driving , and you are losing your shit over rare events that claim less than a tenth that number ?
Pitiful. )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your myopia is impressive.
Shocking though it may be, security measures are usually designed with multiple potential threats in mind.
And it is not unknown [wikipedia.org] for good Christian White boys to take up rather dramatic forms of political activism.
And Black guys have been known to be problematic [wikipedia.org] from time to time.
It's pathetic, really.
In your zeal to protect yourself from the OMGSCARY terrorists, you end up losing all perspective and succumbing to hysteria.
You can't even keep the recent history of terrorist activity in the United States in mind, much less a proper historical perspective(not to mention broader risk comparisons; ~40,000 people a year die driving, and you are losing your shit over rare events that claim less than a tenth that number?
Pitiful.)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216362</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30227322</id>
	<title>Re:Actaully, it seems pretty accurate</title>
	<author>NoseyNick</author>
	<datestamp>1257184200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>some form of criminal conviction or caution at any point in their life, which could be for a large array of fairly minor things</p></div><p>Hey, you can get a caution for having noisy sex!</p><p>(Erm, not speaking from experience, you understand!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>some form of criminal conviction or caution at any point in their life , which could be for a large array of fairly minor thingsHey , you can get a caution for having noisy sex !
( Erm , not speaking from experience , you understand !
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>some form of criminal conviction or caution at any point in their life, which could be for a large array of fairly minor thingsHey, you can get a caution for having noisy sex!
(Erm, not speaking from experience, you understand!
;-)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216468</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217786</id>
	<title>Fox watching the hen house</title>
	<author>JustNiz</author>
	<datestamp>1259096280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;&gt; The government plans to keep all DNA samples for up to six years, except for terrorism-related investigations, which will be retained forever.</p><p>This is true even if the person is found not guilty. All this means is that to get what they want which is records of everyone's DNA forever all they need to do is claim some fake terrorism-related possibility at the time of arrest.</p><p>Even for non-terrorism arrests, we only have the government's word that they aren't keeping the records past 6 years. The UK government have frequently proved they routinely lie about stuff like this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; &gt; The government plans to keep all DNA samples for up to six years , except for terrorism-related investigations , which will be retained forever.This is true even if the person is found not guilty .
All this means is that to get what they want which is records of everyone 's DNA forever all they need to do is claim some fake terrorism-related possibility at the time of arrest.Even for non-terrorism arrests , we only have the government 's word that they are n't keeping the records past 6 years .
The UK government have frequently proved they routinely lie about stuff like this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;&gt; The government plans to keep all DNA samples for up to six years, except for terrorism-related investigations, which will be retained forever.This is true even if the person is found not guilty.
All this means is that to get what they want which is records of everyone's DNA forever all they need to do is claim some fake terrorism-related possibility at the time of arrest.Even for non-terrorism arrests, we only have the government's word that they aren't keeping the records past 6 years.
The UK government have frequently proved they routinely lie about stuff like this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30221968</id>
	<title>Re:enjoy your police state</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259075760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perfect idea for health care:</p><p>A fat tax, plus a muscle incentive.</p><p>You weigh in and pay a dollar a pound or so.</p><p>Then you get a tax credit based on how much you can bench, or some other measure of health and fitness.</p><p>Not a very popular idea for sure, but giving people a reason to get up and get some exercise will shift a lot of the burden of mantaining one's health onto the patient, where it belongs to a large extent anyway as there is little a doctor can do without their cooperation.</p><p>Fit people are just cheaper to have around.  Their bodies are more resilient and they aren't as easily put out of commission, which brings down health care costs.  If they break a leg, they recover faster.  They don't wind up in the hospital as often.  Put simply, fit people cost less.</p><p>I think it would also be fair and equitable for airlines to charge by the pound for you and your luggage combined.  Fuel costs are directly proportional to mass.  And if someone is actually large enough to need two seats to sit down, then they're taking up a seat that someone else could use.  It's not fair to the unlucky passenger to get deprived of a seat, and it's not fair to the airlines who are forced to give up the seat.  Again, perfectly practical but politically unsavory.</p><p>It's high time we stop letting political correctness get in the way of solutions.  A "fat tax" is pretty ugly but it might actually get something done about america's obesity epidemic, which can't really be good overall for their health.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perfect idea for health care : A fat tax , plus a muscle incentive.You weigh in and pay a dollar a pound or so.Then you get a tax credit based on how much you can bench , or some other measure of health and fitness.Not a very popular idea for sure , but giving people a reason to get up and get some exercise will shift a lot of the burden of mantaining one 's health onto the patient , where it belongs to a large extent anyway as there is little a doctor can do without their cooperation.Fit people are just cheaper to have around .
Their bodies are more resilient and they are n't as easily put out of commission , which brings down health care costs .
If they break a leg , they recover faster .
They do n't wind up in the hospital as often .
Put simply , fit people cost less.I think it would also be fair and equitable for airlines to charge by the pound for you and your luggage combined .
Fuel costs are directly proportional to mass .
And if someone is actually large enough to need two seats to sit down , then they 're taking up a seat that someone else could use .
It 's not fair to the unlucky passenger to get deprived of a seat , and it 's not fair to the airlines who are forced to give up the seat .
Again , perfectly practical but politically unsavory.It 's high time we stop letting political correctness get in the way of solutions .
A " fat tax " is pretty ugly but it might actually get something done about america 's obesity epidemic , which ca n't really be good overall for their health .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perfect idea for health care:A fat tax, plus a muscle incentive.You weigh in and pay a dollar a pound or so.Then you get a tax credit based on how much you can bench, or some other measure of health and fitness.Not a very popular idea for sure, but giving people a reason to get up and get some exercise will shift a lot of the burden of mantaining one's health onto the patient, where it belongs to a large extent anyway as there is little a doctor can do without their cooperation.Fit people are just cheaper to have around.
Their bodies are more resilient and they aren't as easily put out of commission, which brings down health care costs.
If they break a leg, they recover faster.
They don't wind up in the hospital as often.
Put simply, fit people cost less.I think it would also be fair and equitable for airlines to charge by the pound for you and your luggage combined.
Fuel costs are directly proportional to mass.
And if someone is actually large enough to need two seats to sit down, then they're taking up a seat that someone else could use.
It's not fair to the unlucky passenger to get deprived of a seat, and it's not fair to the airlines who are forced to give up the seat.
Again, perfectly practical but politically unsavory.It's high time we stop letting political correctness get in the way of solutions.
A "fat tax" is pretty ugly but it might actually get something done about america's obesity epidemic, which can't really be good overall for their health.</sentencetext>
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--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30227322
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216326
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216416
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216384
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216222
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216436
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217194
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216894
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216666
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217504
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_24_1735230.9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216796
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_24_1735230.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216620
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_24_1735230.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216138
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216592
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216470
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30218704
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30223870
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217796
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217854
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30221012
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216274
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216868
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30221958
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217352
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30217142
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30225372
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30218916
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_24_1735230.30216162
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