<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_23_1328228</id>
	<title>Opera Closes China Loophole; Reinstates Censorship</title>
	<author>CmdrTaco</author>
	<datestamp>1258984020000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="mailto:obsessivemathsfreak@eircLAPLACEom.netminusmath\_g" rel="nofollow">ObsessiveMathsFreak</a> writes <i>"Coming hot on the heels of <a href="http://search.slashdot.org/story/09/11/21/0158213/Bing-Censoring-All-Simplified-Chinese-Language-Queries">Microsoft's censoring</a> of Chinese search results, browser-maker Opera has become the latest company to joyfully contribute to prosperous growth of the Great Firewall of China. For speed and convenience, the mobile phone-based 'Opera Mini' browser receives formatted web pages via Opera's own line of proxy servers. These unfiltered proxies gave Opera's Chinese users rare unfettered access to the wider web. However, <a href="http://asia.cnet.com/blogs/sinobytes/post.htm?id=63015016">this loophole has now been closed</a>, with Chinese users now being directed to 'upgrade' to 'Opera Mini China,' which closes this loophole, returning them to the bosom of party censorship, and Opera to the favor of the Chinese Government. Truly; 'To Get Rich Is Glorious.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>ObsessiveMathsFreak writes " Coming hot on the heels of Microsoft 's censoring of Chinese search results , browser-maker Opera has become the latest company to joyfully contribute to prosperous growth of the Great Firewall of China .
For speed and convenience , the mobile phone-based 'Opera Mini ' browser receives formatted web pages via Opera 's own line of proxy servers .
These unfiltered proxies gave Opera 's Chinese users rare unfettered access to the wider web .
However , this loophole has now been closed , with Chinese users now being directed to 'upgrade ' to 'Opera Mini China, ' which closes this loophole , returning them to the bosom of party censorship , and Opera to the favor of the Chinese Government .
Truly ; 'To Get Rich Is Glorious .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ObsessiveMathsFreak writes "Coming hot on the heels of Microsoft's censoring of Chinese search results, browser-maker Opera has become the latest company to joyfully contribute to prosperous growth of the Great Firewall of China.
For speed and convenience, the mobile phone-based 'Opera Mini' browser receives formatted web pages via Opera's own line of proxy servers.
These unfiltered proxies gave Opera's Chinese users rare unfettered access to the wider web.
However, this loophole has now been closed, with Chinese users now being directed to 'upgrade' to 'Opera Mini China,' which closes this loophole, returning them to the bosom of party censorship, and Opera to the favor of the Chinese Government.
Truly; 'To Get Rich Is Glorious.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201478</id>
	<title>Do You Expect Anything Different?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258988820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is unfortunate that companies in this situation are caving to the requests of a government that has different ideals about the freedom of information than we do, but honestly, do you expect anything different?  These companies aren't in the business of battling China on their political ideology.  They are out to sell a web browser and maximize the NPV of the company.  This is what a business and a free market is all about.  To do anything different would be a strategic move that while it could be argued might benefit Chinese citizens, it is much less likely to benefit Opera.  Furthermore, if they did fight China on this one, I think it would be naive to think that they did it for any other reason that as a calculated risk to gain marketshare and ultimately profit.  So don't act surprised when stuff like this happens.  The sooner people realize what businesses are and aren't, the sooner they will understand the forces shaping the world in which we live.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is unfortunate that companies in this situation are caving to the requests of a government that has different ideals about the freedom of information than we do , but honestly , do you expect anything different ?
These companies are n't in the business of battling China on their political ideology .
They are out to sell a web browser and maximize the NPV of the company .
This is what a business and a free market is all about .
To do anything different would be a strategic move that while it could be argued might benefit Chinese citizens , it is much less likely to benefit Opera .
Furthermore , if they did fight China on this one , I think it would be naive to think that they did it for any other reason that as a calculated risk to gain marketshare and ultimately profit .
So do n't act surprised when stuff like this happens .
The sooner people realize what businesses are and are n't , the sooner they will understand the forces shaping the world in which we live .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is unfortunate that companies in this situation are caving to the requests of a government that has different ideals about the freedom of information than we do, but honestly, do you expect anything different?
These companies aren't in the business of battling China on their political ideology.
They are out to sell a web browser and maximize the NPV of the company.
This is what a business and a free market is all about.
To do anything different would be a strategic move that while it could be argued might benefit Chinese citizens, it is much less likely to benefit Opera.
Furthermore, if they did fight China on this one, I think it would be naive to think that they did it for any other reason that as a calculated risk to gain marketshare and ultimately profit.
So don't act surprised when stuff like this happens.
The sooner people realize what businesses are and aren't, the sooner they will understand the forces shaping the world in which we live.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201664</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258989900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.coolforsale.com/" title="coolforsale.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.coolforsale.com/</a> [coolforsale.com]
Dear ladies and gentlemen Hello, In order to meet Christmas, Site launched Christmas spree, welcome new and old customers come to participate in the  there are unexpected surprises, look forward to your arrival. Only this site have this treatmentOur goal is "Best quality, Best reputation , Best services". Your satisfaction is our main pursue. You can find the best products from us, meeting your different needs.Ladies and Gentlemen  weicome  to  my coolforsale.com.Here,there are   the   most   fashion   products . Pass by but don't   miss it.Select  your  favorite  clothing!  Welcome  to come  next   time ! Thank you!
ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket,
Air jordan(1-24)shoes $33
Nike shox(R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3) $35
Handbags(Coach lv fendi d&amp;g) $35
Tshirts (Polo<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,ed hardy,lacoste) $16
free shipping
Thanks!!! Advance wish you a merry Christmas.</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.coolforsale.com/ [ coolforsale.com ] Dear ladies and gentlemen Hello , In order to meet Christmas , Site launched Christmas spree , welcome new and old customers come to participate in the there are unexpected surprises , look forward to your arrival .
Only this site have this treatmentOur goal is " Best quality , Best reputation , Best services " .
Your satisfaction is our main pursue .
You can find the best products from us , meeting your different needs.Ladies and Gentlemen weicome to my coolforsale.com.Here,there are the most fashion products .
Pass by but do n't miss it.Select your favorite clothing !
Welcome to come next time !
Thank you !
ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket , Air jordan ( 1-24 ) shoes $ 33 Nike shox ( R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3 ) $ 35 Handbags ( Coach lv fendi d&amp;g ) $ 35 Tshirts ( Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste ) $ 16 free shipping Thanks ! ! !
Advance wish you a merry Christmas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.coolforsale.com/ [coolforsale.com]
Dear ladies and gentlemen Hello, In order to meet Christmas, Site launched Christmas spree, welcome new and old customers come to participate in the  there are unexpected surprises, look forward to your arrival.
Only this site have this treatmentOur goal is "Best quality, Best reputation , Best services".
Your satisfaction is our main pursue.
You can find the best products from us, meeting your different needs.Ladies and Gentlemen  weicome  to  my coolforsale.com.Here,there are   the   most   fashion   products .
Pass by but don't   miss it.Select  your  favorite  clothing!
Welcome  to come  next   time !
Thank you!
ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket,
Air jordan(1-24)shoes $33
Nike shox(R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3) $35
Handbags(Coach lv fendi d&amp;g) $35
Tshirts (Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste) $16
free shipping
Thanks!!!
Advance wish you a merry Christmas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201894</id>
	<title>Torn</title>
	<author>WED Fan</author>
	<datestamp>1258991160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm torn on this. We want freedom. Does that mean we let the companies have freedom to do business with China and follow their rules? Or, should we demand that companies from the "free world" not contribute to the human rights problems of China, and others?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm torn on this .
We want freedom .
Does that mean we let the companies have freedom to do business with China and follow their rules ?
Or , should we demand that companies from the " free world " not contribute to the human rights problems of China , and others ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm torn on this.
We want freedom.
Does that mean we let the companies have freedom to do business with China and follow their rules?
Or, should we demand that companies from the "free world" not contribute to the human rights problems of China, and others?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201314</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202112</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>Sockatume</author>
	<datestamp>1258992240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's why you're posting on an x86 system. You're just so outraged at IBM.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's why you 're posting on an x86 system .
You 're just so outraged at IBM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's why you're posting on an x86 system.
You're just so outraged at IBM.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30211038</id>
	<title>supporting the enemy, or protecting self interests</title>
	<author>tvnewswatch</author>
	<datestamp>1259055120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The list of companies complicit in helping support China's restrictive Internet policy grows year by year. Many say they are just protecting business interests and that they would lose an otherwise lucrative market. That may be so, but there is a moral as well as a financial factor that should not be ignored. Back in 2005 Cisco fought a shareholder action that urged the company to adopt a comprehensive human rights policy for its dealings with the Chinese government. At the time it was acknowledged that the resolution would not be binding on Cisco's executives. But Dawn Wolfe, a social research and advocacy analyst at the firm, which prides itself on its socially responsible investments, said the action sent "a strong message to management, and it gets across the sentiment of shareholders in a way that writing a letter can't do." Opera, Yahoo, Microsoft, Google and others should take note. as regards China, they are playing a game of protectionism of sorts. They are trying to force out competition by blocking competitors or making it more difficult for them to operate. Hu Jintao's comments, prior to Obama's arrival, when he said, "we must oppose protectionism in all its manifestations" is laughable given the 'attacks' on western Internet companies.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The list of companies complicit in helping support China 's restrictive Internet policy grows year by year .
Many say they are just protecting business interests and that they would lose an otherwise lucrative market .
That may be so , but there is a moral as well as a financial factor that should not be ignored .
Back in 2005 Cisco fought a shareholder action that urged the company to adopt a comprehensive human rights policy for its dealings with the Chinese government .
At the time it was acknowledged that the resolution would not be binding on Cisco 's executives .
But Dawn Wolfe , a social research and advocacy analyst at the firm , which prides itself on its socially responsible investments , said the action sent " a strong message to management , and it gets across the sentiment of shareholders in a way that writing a letter ca n't do .
" Opera , Yahoo , Microsoft , Google and others should take note .
as regards China , they are playing a game of protectionism of sorts .
They are trying to force out competition by blocking competitors or making it more difficult for them to operate .
Hu Jintao 's comments , prior to Obama 's arrival , when he said , " we must oppose protectionism in all its manifestations " is laughable given the 'attacks ' on western Internet companies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The list of companies complicit in helping support China's restrictive Internet policy grows year by year.
Many say they are just protecting business interests and that they would lose an otherwise lucrative market.
That may be so, but there is a moral as well as a financial factor that should not be ignored.
Back in 2005 Cisco fought a shareholder action that urged the company to adopt a comprehensive human rights policy for its dealings with the Chinese government.
At the time it was acknowledged that the resolution would not be binding on Cisco's executives.
But Dawn Wolfe, a social research and advocacy analyst at the firm, which prides itself on its socially responsible investments, said the action sent "a strong message to management, and it gets across the sentiment of shareholders in a way that writing a letter can't do.
" Opera, Yahoo, Microsoft, Google and others should take note.
as regards China, they are playing a game of protectionism of sorts.
They are trying to force out competition by blocking competitors or making it more difficult for them to operate.
Hu Jintao's comments, prior to Obama's arrival, when he said, "we must oppose protectionism in all its manifestations" is laughable given the 'attacks' on western Internet companies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203206</id>
	<title>Godwin</title>
	<author>Stargoat</author>
	<datestamp>1258998240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can Godwin me if you like, but don't forget there were a great number of companies that did business with Nazi Germany in the years leading up to WWII.  A fascist dictatorship that allows some business to flourish will always find capital from free nations.  But by its very nature, the capital will never help remove the dictatorship.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can Godwin me if you like , but do n't forget there were a great number of companies that did business with Nazi Germany in the years leading up to WWII .
A fascist dictatorship that allows some business to flourish will always find capital from free nations .
But by its very nature , the capital will never help remove the dictatorship .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can Godwin me if you like, but don't forget there were a great number of companies that did business with Nazi Germany in the years leading up to WWII.
A fascist dictatorship that allows some business to flourish will always find capital from free nations.
But by its very nature, the capital will never help remove the dictatorship.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202556</id>
	<title>Joyfully?</title>
	<author>notrandomly</author>
	<datestamp>1258994760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>joyfully contribute to prosperous growth of the Great Firewall of China</p></div></blockquote><p>
-1 Troll</p><blockquote><div><p>Opera to the favor of the Chinese Government</p></div></blockquote><p>
Yes, I'm sure the alternatives were "do this" or "you don't have to do this if you don't want to", rather than "do this" or "myseriously disappear from the face of the earth". But who cares about Opera's employees in China anyway, right?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>joyfully contribute to prosperous growth of the Great Firewall of China -1 TrollOpera to the favor of the Chinese Government Yes , I 'm sure the alternatives were " do this " or " you do n't have to do this if you do n't want to " , rather than " do this " or " myseriously disappear from the face of the earth " .
But who cares about Opera 's employees in China anyway , right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>joyfully contribute to prosperous growth of the Great Firewall of China
-1 TrollOpera to the favor of the Chinese Government
Yes, I'm sure the alternatives were "do this" or "you don't have to do this if you don't want to", rather than "do this" or "myseriously disappear from the face of the earth".
But who cares about Opera's employees in China anyway, right?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203656</id>
	<title>Re:Why do we expect corps. to do politics for us ?</title>
	<author>Surt</author>
	<datestamp>1259000640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is exactly why we need a corporate death penalty, one that includes the top management of the company in question.  That will stop this sort of misbehavior in its tracks, because unlike crimes of passion where the death penalty is stupid, these people are actually looking ahead as they consider their long term best interests.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is exactly why we need a corporate death penalty , one that includes the top management of the company in question .
That will stop this sort of misbehavior in its tracks , because unlike crimes of passion where the death penalty is stupid , these people are actually looking ahead as they consider their long term best interests .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is exactly why we need a corporate death penalty, one that includes the top management of the company in question.
That will stop this sort of misbehavior in its tracks, because unlike crimes of passion where the death penalty is stupid, these people are actually looking ahead as they consider their long term best interests.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202530</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201526</id>
	<title>Remember:</title>
	<author>Ralph Spoilsport</author>
	<datestamp>1258989120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Capitalism will bring democracy to China!
<p>
I love the Chinese people  - very fine people, respect for education, pretty girls, good solid folks. But their government is crap, and has been crap for 100 years, and the current collection of power mad bullies running the joint are a bunch of asshats who deserve all the punishment and torture they meet out upon their rivals and those who seek to exercise their basic human rights as outlined in the UN Charter.
</p><p>
To the people of China: Welcome to the 21st century. We're glad you made it.
</p><p>
To the Chinese Government: FUCK YOU. YOU SCUM SUCKING FREAKS.
</p><p>
RS</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Capitalism will bring democracy to China !
I love the Chinese people - very fine people , respect for education , pretty girls , good solid folks .
But their government is crap , and has been crap for 100 years , and the current collection of power mad bullies running the joint are a bunch of asshats who deserve all the punishment and torture they meet out upon their rivals and those who seek to exercise their basic human rights as outlined in the UN Charter .
To the people of China : Welcome to the 21st century .
We 're glad you made it .
To the Chinese Government : FUCK YOU .
YOU SCUM SUCKING FREAKS .
RS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Capitalism will bring democracy to China!
I love the Chinese people  - very fine people, respect for education, pretty girls, good solid folks.
But their government is crap, and has been crap for 100 years, and the current collection of power mad bullies running the joint are a bunch of asshats who deserve all the punishment and torture they meet out upon their rivals and those who seek to exercise their basic human rights as outlined in the UN Charter.
To the people of China: Welcome to the 21st century.
We're glad you made it.
To the Chinese Government: FUCK YOU.
YOU SCUM SUCKING FREAKS.
RS</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30204128</id>
	<title>A new business model...</title>
	<author>XDirtypunkX</author>
	<datestamp>1259003280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wait, you can get rich creating products that circumvent Chinese censorship and then shutting the loop hole? Sounds like a new business model!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait , you can get rich creating products that circumvent Chinese censorship and then shutting the loop hole ?
Sounds like a new business model !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait, you can get rich creating products that circumvent Chinese censorship and then shutting the loop hole?
Sounds like a new business model!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203804</id>
	<title>Re:This post is unavailable.</title>
	<author>Rocketship Underpant</author>
	<datestamp>1259001480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What? Unicode support is finally available for Slashdot? The world's mightiest tech website will finally have the same text-handling capabilities as my cat's Blogger site?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What ?
Unicode support is finally available for Slashdot ?
The world 's mightiest tech website will finally have the same text-handling capabilities as my cat 's Blogger site ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What?
Unicode support is finally available for Slashdot?
The world's mightiest tech website will finally have the same text-handling capabilities as my cat's Blogger site?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201314</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201628</id>
	<title>that doesn't make sense</title>
	<author>muncadunc</author>
	<datestamp>1258989600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>returning them to the buxom of party censorship</i>
<br>
<br>You can't be returned to the buxom of anything, because buxom isn't a noun. It's an adjective.
<br>Were you thinking of bosom? They're two words with completely different etymologies: Buxom used to mean "bendy or pliable" and is related to German <i>biegsam</i>.</htmltext>
<tokenext>returning them to the buxom of party censorship You ca n't be returned to the buxom of anything , because buxom is n't a noun .
It 's an adjective .
Were you thinking of bosom ?
They 're two words with completely different etymologies : Buxom used to mean " bendy or pliable " and is related to German biegsam .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>returning them to the buxom of party censorship

You can't be returned to the buxom of anything, because buxom isn't a noun.
It's an adjective.
Were you thinking of bosom?
They're two words with completely different etymologies: Buxom used to mean "bendy or pliable" and is related to German biegsam.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203248</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>MarkvW</author>
	<datestamp>1258998420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People were attacking your foolish argument and you take it as a personal attack.  That is a foolish response.  If I take the character of your argument and apply it to your personality, I would conclude that you are a fool.  But that would be foolish of me!</p><p>So . . . please stop now.  As Mr. Lincoln once said:  "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People were attacking your foolish argument and you take it as a personal attack .
That is a foolish response .
If I take the character of your argument and apply it to your personality , I would conclude that you are a fool .
But that would be foolish of me ! So .
. .
please stop now .
As Mr. Lincoln once said : " Better to remain silent and be thought a fool , than to speak out and remove all doubt .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People were attacking your foolish argument and you take it as a personal attack.
That is a foolish response.
If I take the character of your argument and apply it to your personality, I would conclude that you are a fool.
But that would be foolish of me!So .
. .
please stop now.
As Mr. Lincoln once said:  "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201916</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30204200</id>
	<title>Re:Remember:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259003700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A lot of similar things can be said about the U.S. government since the Bush2 administration.</p><p>Unfettered capitalism is pretty much destroying the American people as much as helping them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A lot of similar things can be said about the U.S. government since the Bush2 administration.Unfettered capitalism is pretty much destroying the American people as much as helping them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A lot of similar things can be said about the U.S. government since the Bush2 administration.Unfettered capitalism is pretty much destroying the American people as much as helping them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201526</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30211266</id>
	<title>Re:Why do we expect corps. to do politics for us ?</title>
	<author>rastoboy29</author>
	<datestamp>1259059380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><tt>There is such a thing as the long term, my friend, including long term profitability.<br><br>A world with censorship and authoritarianism is, by definition, a less prosperous one.&nbsp; Companies (and their leaders) have no less an ethical responsibility to make the world a better place than do individuals.<br><br>So fuck you, too.</tt></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is such a thing as the long term , my friend , including long term profitability.A world with censorship and authoritarianism is , by definition , a less prosperous one.   Companies ( and their leaders ) have no less an ethical responsibility to make the world a better place than do individuals.So fuck you , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is such a thing as the long term, my friend, including long term profitability.A world with censorship and authoritarianism is, by definition, a less prosperous one.  Companies (and their leaders) have no less an ethical responsibility to make the world a better place than do individuals.So fuck you, too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201486</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201486</id>
	<title>Why do we expect corps. to do politics for us ?</title>
	<author>gapagos</author>
	<datestamp>1258988820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It strikes me how often I hear supposedly pro-market "patriotic" Americans like Lou Dobbs being shocked that:<br>
&nbsp; - GOOGLE cooperates with China.<br>
&nbsp; - MICROSOFT cooperates with China.<br>
&nbsp; - MYSPACE coorporates with China.<br>And so on. What did you expect? Corporations are not here to defend American interests. Thy are there to defend THEIR interests, and THEIR interests lies in conquering a market of 1.2 billion people.  That is a huge market. 320 million americans is dipshit compared to 1,200 million. Ok, I exagerate, as per-capita GDP is much higher in the U.S., but you know where I'm getting at.</p><p>If we want to send a message to China, we should ask our diplomats and politicians to do it. NOT expect freakin' corporation to do it for us. They have no reason to care, and it's prefectly understandable. Anybody who thinks otherwise has clearly been brainwashed by the "free market capitalism perfection Kool-Aid".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It strikes me how often I hear supposedly pro-market " patriotic " Americans like Lou Dobbs being shocked that :   - GOOGLE cooperates with China .
  - MICROSOFT cooperates with China .
  - MYSPACE coorporates with China.And so on .
What did you expect ?
Corporations are not here to defend American interests .
Thy are there to defend THEIR interests , and THEIR interests lies in conquering a market of 1.2 billion people .
That is a huge market .
320 million americans is dipshit compared to 1,200 million .
Ok , I exagerate , as per-capita GDP is much higher in the U.S. , but you know where I 'm getting at.If we want to send a message to China , we should ask our diplomats and politicians to do it .
NOT expect freakin ' corporation to do it for us .
They have no reason to care , and it 's prefectly understandable .
Anybody who thinks otherwise has clearly been brainwashed by the " free market capitalism perfection Kool-Aid " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It strikes me how often I hear supposedly pro-market "patriotic" Americans like Lou Dobbs being shocked that:
  - GOOGLE cooperates with China.
  - MICROSOFT cooperates with China.
  - MYSPACE coorporates with China.And so on.
What did you expect?
Corporations are not here to defend American interests.
Thy are there to defend THEIR interests, and THEIR interests lies in conquering a market of 1.2 billion people.
That is a huge market.
320 million americans is dipshit compared to 1,200 million.
Ok, I exagerate, as per-capita GDP is much higher in the U.S., but you know where I'm getting at.If we want to send a message to China, we should ask our diplomats and politicians to do it.
NOT expect freakin' corporation to do it for us.
They have no reason to care, and it's prefectly understandable.
Anybody who thinks otherwise has clearly been brainwashed by the "free market capitalism perfection Kool-Aid".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201916</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>santax</author>
	<datestamp>1258991220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sir, it's my darn right to be a hypocrite. Don't like it? Go live in China where they also tell you what sites you can and cannot see.

I like my freedom of being a hypocrite. Now if that means I can't express my opinion or engage in discussion. Tell you what, I also buy 'wrong' chocolate. Why? Because it's cheaper. Can't save the whole world on my own you know.

I am however an active member of Amnesty and I've written many a letter for the release of captives in foreign countries. Some of them even got released due to this hypocrite and 50.000 other hypocrites writing those letters.

And you? What have you done lately?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sir , it 's my darn right to be a hypocrite .
Do n't like it ?
Go live in China where they also tell you what sites you can and can not see .
I like my freedom of being a hypocrite .
Now if that means I ca n't express my opinion or engage in discussion .
Tell you what , I also buy 'wrong ' chocolate .
Why ? Because it 's cheaper .
Ca n't save the whole world on my own you know .
I am however an active member of Amnesty and I 've written many a letter for the release of captives in foreign countries .
Some of them even got released due to this hypocrite and 50.000 other hypocrites writing those letters .
And you ?
What have you done lately ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sir, it's my darn right to be a hypocrite.
Don't like it?
Go live in China where they also tell you what sites you can and cannot see.
I like my freedom of being a hypocrite.
Now if that means I can't express my opinion or engage in discussion.
Tell you what, I also buy 'wrong' chocolate.
Why? Because it's cheaper.
Can't save the whole world on my own you know.
I am however an active member of Amnesty and I've written many a letter for the release of captives in foreign countries.
Some of them even got released due to this hypocrite and 50.000 other hypocrites writing those letters.
And you?
What have you done lately?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201744</id>
	<title>Ok, so go develop something better</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258990500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If people are so worked up over this, why not develop a browser that cannot be censored instead of posting to Slashdot?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If people are so worked up over this , why not develop a browser that can not be censored instead of posting to Slashdot ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If people are so worked up over this, why not develop a browser that cannot be censored instead of posting to Slashdot?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202614</id>
	<title>Humanitarian organisations do the same thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258995060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you travel to help out in an area where arranged marriages are common, and one of your contacts will be married away through an arranged marriage, you do not approach the situation Western-style, by calling the police or mounting an armed rescue from kidnappers - you do nothing at all. Companies aren't the only ones who fail to disturb local customs - nobody does it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you travel to help out in an area where arranged marriages are common , and one of your contacts will be married away through an arranged marriage , you do not approach the situation Western-style , by calling the police or mounting an armed rescue from kidnappers - you do nothing at all .
Companies are n't the only ones who fail to disturb local customs - nobody does it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you travel to help out in an area where arranged marriages are common, and one of your contacts will be married away through an arranged marriage, you do not approach the situation Western-style, by calling the police or mounting an armed rescue from kidnappers - you do nothing at all.
Companies aren't the only ones who fail to disturb local customs - nobody does it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203204</id>
	<title>Good work, Opera!</title>
	<author>rclandrum</author>
	<datestamp>1258998240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>These articles about company or product X bowing to the Chinese censors are often accompanied by calls to boycott the product in the US.  Completely insane.<br> <br>
Wake up.  We are in a trade war with China and must be complete agnostics when doing business there.  We should cheer every inroad a US company makes in China.  Attempting to hurt a US company just because you disagree with the way China is run is like shooting your foxhole buddy because you don't like Nazism.<br> <br>
Wrong target and wrong tactic. You cannot win unless you remain on the playing field.</htmltext>
<tokenext>These articles about company or product X bowing to the Chinese censors are often accompanied by calls to boycott the product in the US .
Completely insane .
Wake up .
We are in a trade war with China and must be complete agnostics when doing business there .
We should cheer every inroad a US company makes in China .
Attempting to hurt a US company just because you disagree with the way China is run is like shooting your foxhole buddy because you do n't like Nazism .
Wrong target and wrong tactic .
You can not win unless you remain on the playing field .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These articles about company or product X bowing to the Chinese censors are often accompanied by calls to boycott the product in the US.
Completely insane.
Wake up.
We are in a trade war with China and must be complete agnostics when doing business there.
We should cheer every inroad a US company makes in China.
Attempting to hurt a US company just because you disagree with the way China is run is like shooting your foxhole buddy because you don't like Nazism.
Wrong target and wrong tactic.
You cannot win unless you remain on the playing field.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203340</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>Surt</author>
	<datestamp>1258998840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's why I'm posting from an x86 system with no ibm parts, that pays no ibm licenses, and have never bought an ibm product or service.  IBM can have my business when they send all the profit they made as a result of those actions to a jewish charity.  And at this point that means tens of billions of dollars.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's why I 'm posting from an x86 system with no ibm parts , that pays no ibm licenses , and have never bought an ibm product or service .
IBM can have my business when they send all the profit they made as a result of those actions to a jewish charity .
And at this point that means tens of billions of dollars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's why I'm posting from an x86 system with no ibm parts, that pays no ibm licenses, and have never bought an ibm product or service.
IBM can have my business when they send all the profit they made as a result of those actions to a jewish charity.
And at this point that means tens of billions of dollars.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202112</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201500</id>
	<title>I will join you when Google does something</title>
	<author>Ilgaz</author>
	<datestamp>1258988940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are way bigger, monstrous sized companies who does serve to China's interests. Who did the "great firewall" to begin with? Which hardware does it run on? Can you imagine the data bandwidth, processing power required to do such "out of Internet nature" thing?</p><p>What about gigantic game companies who abides their "1 hour only" rules? What about once hippie run company shipping their "edition" for China?</p><p>Opera is like a grocery store run by family compared to those companies which are gigantic. They got bigger but they are still small. Their main income is from mobile&amp;electronics and I don't think any mobile company on this planet dares to confront China. Their shareholders would really punish them so bad that Opera ASA as we all know would cease to exist.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are way bigger , monstrous sized companies who does serve to China 's interests .
Who did the " great firewall " to begin with ?
Which hardware does it run on ?
Can you imagine the data bandwidth , processing power required to do such " out of Internet nature " thing ? What about gigantic game companies who abides their " 1 hour only " rules ?
What about once hippie run company shipping their " edition " for China ? Opera is like a grocery store run by family compared to those companies which are gigantic .
They got bigger but they are still small .
Their main income is from mobile&amp;electronics and I do n't think any mobile company on this planet dares to confront China .
Their shareholders would really punish them so bad that Opera ASA as we all know would cease to exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are way bigger, monstrous sized companies who does serve to China's interests.
Who did the "great firewall" to begin with?
Which hardware does it run on?
Can you imagine the data bandwidth, processing power required to do such "out of Internet nature" thing?What about gigantic game companies who abides their "1 hour only" rules?
What about once hippie run company shipping their "edition" for China?Opera is like a grocery store run by family compared to those companies which are gigantic.
They got bigger but they are still small.
Their main income is from mobile&amp;electronics and I don't think any mobile company on this planet dares to confront China.
Their shareholders would really punish them so bad that Opera ASA as we all know would cease to exist.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202534</id>
	<title>Re:Do You Expect Anything Different?</title>
	<author>jockeys</author>
	<datestamp>1258994580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>very well said, indeed.  thank you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>very well said , indeed .
thank you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>very well said, indeed.
thank you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201478</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203088</id>
	<title>I would change principles out of protest</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258997640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Sticking to principles isn't free, there is always some sort of sacrifice involved."</p><p>Principle: I hate the RIAA/MPAA, think music has declined in quality, and want to bring down the man. Now if you'll excuse me I got some torrents running in the background.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Sticking to principles is n't free , there is always some sort of sacrifice involved .
" Principle : I hate the RIAA/MPAA , think music has declined in quality , and want to bring down the man .
Now if you 'll excuse me I got some torrents running in the background .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Sticking to principles isn't free, there is always some sort of sacrifice involved.
"Principle: I hate the RIAA/MPAA, think music has declined in quality, and want to bring down the man.
Now if you'll excuse me I got some torrents running in the background.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30206066</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>Al Dimond</author>
	<datestamp>1258971240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, and that if they're working all day they can't get an education. Meanwhile there are lots of unemployed adults in many of these places (source: this guy on Colbert a bit ago) -- if they can't work, and the employers would rather hire kids (apparently this is the case in many places), well, that's just going to create a cycle of poor education and child labor, generation after generation.</p><p>I know it's basically impossible to get an accurate idea of the conditions of labor in these places without going there. They're probably not that good, though most are probably better than the horror-story sweatshops that are often portrayed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , and that if they 're working all day they ca n't get an education .
Meanwhile there are lots of unemployed adults in many of these places ( source : this guy on Colbert a bit ago ) -- if they ca n't work , and the employers would rather hire kids ( apparently this is the case in many places ) , well , that 's just going to create a cycle of poor education and child labor , generation after generation.I know it 's basically impossible to get an accurate idea of the conditions of labor in these places without going there .
They 're probably not that good , though most are probably better than the horror-story sweatshops that are often portrayed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, and that if they're working all day they can't get an education.
Meanwhile there are lots of unemployed adults in many of these places (source: this guy on Colbert a bit ago) -- if they can't work, and the employers would rather hire kids (apparently this is the case in many places), well, that's just going to create a cycle of poor education and child labor, generation after generation.I know it's basically impossible to get an accurate idea of the conditions of labor in these places without going there.
They're probably not that good, though most are probably better than the horror-story sweatshops that are often portrayed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201456</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201670</id>
	<title>Re:I wonder what else...</title>
	<author>sopssa</author>
	<datestamp>1258989960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is only true if you are actually using those services. There's Opera Turbo in the main browser, that compresses the data between their proxy and your browser. Obviously theres no much need to use it on faster connection than lets say gprs. and HTTPS sites will still go without the proxy. Google had <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google\_Web\_Accelerator" title="wikipedia.org">a very similar service</a> [wikipedia.org] btw.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is only true if you are actually using those services .
There 's Opera Turbo in the main browser , that compresses the data between their proxy and your browser .
Obviously theres no much need to use it on faster connection than lets say gprs .
and HTTPS sites will still go without the proxy .
Google had a very similar service [ wikipedia.org ] btw .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is only true if you are actually using those services.
There's Opera Turbo in the main browser, that compresses the data between their proxy and your browser.
Obviously theres no much need to use it on faster connection than lets say gprs.
and HTTPS sites will still go without the proxy.
Google had a very similar service [wikipedia.org] btw.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30211264</id>
	<title>Re:Do You Expect Anything Different?</title>
	<author>rastoboy29</author>
	<datestamp>1259059260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><tt>There is such a thing as the long term, my friend, including long term profitability.<br><br>A world with censorship and authoritarianism is, by definition, a less prosperous one.&nbsp; Companies (and their leaders) have no less an ethical responsibility to make the world a better place than do individuals.<br><br>So fuck you.</tt></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is such a thing as the long term , my friend , including long term profitability.A world with censorship and authoritarianism is , by definition , a less prosperous one.   Companies ( and their leaders ) have no less an ethical responsibility to make the world a better place than do individuals.So fuck you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is such a thing as the long term, my friend, including long term profitability.A world with censorship and authoritarianism is, by definition, a less prosperous one.  Companies (and their leaders) have no less an ethical responsibility to make the world a better place than do individuals.So fuck you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201478</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30230936</id>
	<title>Re:Remember:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257158880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Capitalism will bring democracy to China!</p><p>I love the Chinese people  - very fine people, respect for education, pretty girls, good solid folks. But their government is crap, and has been crap for 100 years, and the current collection of power mad bullies running the joint are a bunch of asshats who deserve all the punishment and torture they meet out upon their rivals and those who seek to exercise their basic human rights as outlined in the UN Charter.</p><p>To the people of China: Welcome to the 21st century. We're glad you made it.</p><p>To the Chinese Government: FUCK YOU. YOU SCUM SUCKING FREAKS.</p><p>RS</p></div><p>Capitalism thrives with censorship, repression, torture and corruption; why complicate things with democracy?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Capitalism will bring democracy to China ! I love the Chinese people - very fine people , respect for education , pretty girls , good solid folks .
But their government is crap , and has been crap for 100 years , and the current collection of power mad bullies running the joint are a bunch of asshats who deserve all the punishment and torture they meet out upon their rivals and those who seek to exercise their basic human rights as outlined in the UN Charter.To the people of China : Welcome to the 21st century .
We 're glad you made it.To the Chinese Government : FUCK YOU .
YOU SCUM SUCKING FREAKS.RSCapitalism thrives with censorship , repression , torture and corruption ; why complicate things with democracy ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Capitalism will bring democracy to China!I love the Chinese people  - very fine people, respect for education, pretty girls, good solid folks.
But their government is crap, and has been crap for 100 years, and the current collection of power mad bullies running the joint are a bunch of asshats who deserve all the punishment and torture they meet out upon their rivals and those who seek to exercise their basic human rights as outlined in the UN Charter.To the people of China: Welcome to the 21st century.
We're glad you made it.To the Chinese Government: FUCK YOU.
YOU SCUM SUCKING FREAKS.RSCapitalism thrives with censorship, repression, torture and corruption; why complicate things with democracy?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201526</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202000</id>
	<title>Re:Torn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258991640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How is having no Google at all better than having a censored Google? This is different from profiting from child labor or whatever, imho. Google is useful for the people, and you can be sure China won't stop censoring just because their people can't access Google.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How is having no Google at all better than having a censored Google ?
This is different from profiting from child labor or whatever , imho .
Google is useful for the people , and you can be sure China wo n't stop censoring just because their people ca n't access Google .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is having no Google at all better than having a censored Google?
This is different from profiting from child labor or whatever, imho.
Google is useful for the people, and you can be sure China won't stop censoring just because their people can't access Google.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201894</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30204076</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>raju1kabir</author>
	<datestamp>1259002980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>did you ever consider that more services like Opera Mini means more difficulty enforcing the censorship, and a higher chance of cracks in the firewall?</p></div></blockquote><p>No, but I have considered that you've posted some 4,000 near-identical shallow messages in defense of this decision which makes you sound like an Opera shill (whether or not you are).
</p><p>Nevertheless, I'll consider it now.
</p><p>Are you arguing that Opera is really bad at implementing censorship, and so people will find ways through just by virtue of them being involved?
</p><p>Or are you arguing that they will deliberately make it easy for Chinese to evade censorship by putting in place a weak implementation?
</p><p>Or are you just trying to have your cake and eat it too?</p><blockquote><div><p>What were Opera's options? Do you even know what actually happened? But hey, let's not worry about sacrificing Opera's employees in China, right?</p></div></blockquote><p>Are jobs more important than principles? That's the question you're leading us to. What's your answer? Do you have some complicated rationale about how being an enabler for China's information control society but employing 26 of China's 1.3 billion people in desk jobs is a net gain for the people of China? Can you elaborate on it a bit further?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>did you ever consider that more services like Opera Mini means more difficulty enforcing the censorship , and a higher chance of cracks in the firewall ? No , but I have considered that you 've posted some 4,000 near-identical shallow messages in defense of this decision which makes you sound like an Opera shill ( whether or not you are ) .
Nevertheless , I 'll consider it now .
Are you arguing that Opera is really bad at implementing censorship , and so people will find ways through just by virtue of them being involved ?
Or are you arguing that they will deliberately make it easy for Chinese to evade censorship by putting in place a weak implementation ?
Or are you just trying to have your cake and eat it too ? What were Opera 's options ?
Do you even know what actually happened ?
But hey , let 's not worry about sacrificing Opera 's employees in China , right ? Are jobs more important than principles ?
That 's the question you 're leading us to .
What 's your answer ?
Do you have some complicated rationale about how being an enabler for China 's information control society but employing 26 of China 's 1.3 billion people in desk jobs is a net gain for the people of China ?
Can you elaborate on it a bit further ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>did you ever consider that more services like Opera Mini means more difficulty enforcing the censorship, and a higher chance of cracks in the firewall?No, but I have considered that you've posted some 4,000 near-identical shallow messages in defense of this decision which makes you sound like an Opera shill (whether or not you are).
Nevertheless, I'll consider it now.
Are you arguing that Opera is really bad at implementing censorship, and so people will find ways through just by virtue of them being involved?
Or are you arguing that they will deliberately make it easy for Chinese to evade censorship by putting in place a weak implementation?
Or are you just trying to have your cake and eat it too?What were Opera's options?
Do you even know what actually happened?
But hey, let's not worry about sacrificing Opera's employees in China, right?Are jobs more important than principles?
That's the question you're leading us to.
What's your answer?
Do you have some complicated rationale about how being an enabler for China's information control society but employing 26 of China's 1.3 billion people in desk jobs is a net gain for the people of China?
Can you elaborate on it a bit further?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202962</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202672</id>
	<title>No surprise</title>
	<author>paragon1</author>
	<datestamp>1258995240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yet another company bows to censorship in the name of money.  (Yes, Opera is freeware, but Opera Software is a for-profit company)</p><p>Capitalism follows no ethical model; it simply isn't profitable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yet another company bows to censorship in the name of money .
( Yes , Opera is freeware , but Opera Software is a for-profit company ) Capitalism follows no ethical model ; it simply is n't profitable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yet another company bows to censorship in the name of money.
(Yes, Opera is freeware, but Opera Software is a for-profit company)Capitalism follows no ethical model; it simply isn't profitable.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202964</id>
	<title>Do not conflate freedoms.</title>
	<author>GrantRobertson</author>
	<datestamp>1258996980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Freedom for people (as in The People) totally trumps freedom for businesses to make money. Conflating the two inevitably leads to reversing them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Freedom for people ( as in The People ) totally trumps freedom for businesses to make money .
Conflating the two inevitably leads to reversing them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Freedom for people (as in The People) totally trumps freedom for businesses to make money.
Conflating the two inevitably leads to reversing them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201894</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203202</id>
	<title>Re:Torn</title>
	<author>Angostura</author>
	<datestamp>1258998240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's the BSD v GPL question all over again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's the BSD v GPL question all over again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's the BSD v GPL question all over again.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201894</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201368</id>
	<title>I need a browser business lesson here.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258988100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In practice, Opera likely had little choice but to comply with local laws, and make a new version for Chinese users that cannot access all the "filtered" sites, same as any other Web browser.</p></div><p>They had no choice. So, the Chinese government would prevent them from doing business in China which is giving it away for <i>free</i>? I've never seen Opera specific advertising when I use Opera. So, I don't get it. Exactly what would Opera lose if they weren't in China?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In practice , Opera likely had little choice but to comply with local laws , and make a new version for Chinese users that can not access all the " filtered " sites , same as any other Web browser.They had no choice .
So , the Chinese government would prevent them from doing business in China which is giving it away for free ?
I 've never seen Opera specific advertising when I use Opera .
So , I do n't get it .
Exactly what would Opera lose if they were n't in China ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In practice, Opera likely had little choice but to comply with local laws, and make a new version for Chinese users that cannot access all the "filtered" sites, same as any other Web browser.They had no choice.
So, the Chinese government would prevent them from doing business in China which is giving it away for free?
I've never seen Opera specific advertising when I use Opera.
So, I don't get it.
Exactly what would Opera lose if they weren't in China?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202266</id>
	<title>Some in China have access</title>
	<author>Nidi62</author>
	<datestamp>1258992900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>All the people involved in their cyber warfare units under the direction of the Third and Fourth Departments of the PLA department of the General Staff have access out the outside world, specifically our networks (if you read the latest reports, the level of penetration is appalling).  Of course, since almost 95\% of the members of the cadre are either members of the Communist Party or their youth movement, I doubt they're gonna go browsing around CNN or Fox News.</htmltext>
<tokenext>All the people involved in their cyber warfare units under the direction of the Third and Fourth Departments of the PLA department of the General Staff have access out the outside world , specifically our networks ( if you read the latest reports , the level of penetration is appalling ) .
Of course , since almost 95 \ % of the members of the cadre are either members of the Communist Party or their youth movement , I doubt they 're gon na go browsing around CNN or Fox News .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All the people involved in their cyber warfare units under the direction of the Third and Fourth Departments of the PLA department of the General Staff have access out the outside world, specifically our networks (if you read the latest reports, the level of penetration is appalling).
Of course, since almost 95\% of the members of the cadre are either members of the Communist Party or their youth movement, I doubt they're gonna go browsing around CNN or Fox News.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201658</id>
	<title>a censored mind is a weak mind</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1258989840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the mind is like a muscle: work it out, challenge it with ideas hostile to your own, and you only wind up with a stronger mind and stronger ideas</p><p>i understand that the technocrats think they are protecting the chinese citizen from foreign interference and degenerate thoughts, but for whatever perceived good is being done by a policy of censorship, the much larger real negative effect is to turn chinese citizens into cotton heads full of nothing but empty thoughts, placid lies. the truth is always ugly and disharmonious. that's what makes placid lies so much more attractive</p><p>for a mind where the serene lie is more valuable than the rude truth, inward thinking reigns. this is the same inward thinking, away from the wider world, building a wall against the outside world, literal and figurative, that led to the rot of the old chinese dynasties, and left china weak and ripe for exploit by foreign powers. the shame of this history drives so much of modern chinese infuriated pride: never again will china be defiled by foreign powers. the literal and figurative rapes of japanese imperialism, the british opium wars to force heroin on its citizens: this led to china's rebellions and eventual modernization</p><p>however, in the policies of the technocrats of beijing today, we see the same seeds of the same thinking of the old brittle bureaucratic mandarins that led to china's previous downfall. sheep are very harmonious, docile, placid creatures. they're also dumb. dear china: why do you choose placid lies over ugly truths? the harmonious still pool is beautiful, but weak. the raging river is ugly and dirty, but strong</p><p>the chinese government are turning their citizens into housepets. this is not a strong nation, this is a weak one, populated by simpletons who could have been strong minds, but the chinese govermnet made sure they were empty weak minds, by censoring anything that would challenge the dominant monoculture. yes, legions of robots can turn out lots of cheap goods, but you would think that you would like a china full of strong and wise chinese, not slaves. and yet the chinese government clearly values their citizens only as slaves, unable to think on their own, with censorship policies that mean chinese minds are never exercised</p><p>the chinese government does not respect its own citizens. the chinese government's censorship policies is recreating the conditions that led to china's historical rot, and the chinese government's policies will mean china will be weak again, and dominated and exploited again</p><p>that is why, in the name of respecting the chinese people, i do not respect the legitimacy of the chinese government. the chinese government does not respect its own people. the chinese government has an agenda which serves only its own flawed priorities, and do not serve its people</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the mind is like a muscle : work it out , challenge it with ideas hostile to your own , and you only wind up with a stronger mind and stronger ideasi understand that the technocrats think they are protecting the chinese citizen from foreign interference and degenerate thoughts , but for whatever perceived good is being done by a policy of censorship , the much larger real negative effect is to turn chinese citizens into cotton heads full of nothing but empty thoughts , placid lies .
the truth is always ugly and disharmonious .
that 's what makes placid lies so much more attractivefor a mind where the serene lie is more valuable than the rude truth , inward thinking reigns .
this is the same inward thinking , away from the wider world , building a wall against the outside world , literal and figurative , that led to the rot of the old chinese dynasties , and left china weak and ripe for exploit by foreign powers .
the shame of this history drives so much of modern chinese infuriated pride : never again will china be defiled by foreign powers .
the literal and figurative rapes of japanese imperialism , the british opium wars to force heroin on its citizens : this led to china 's rebellions and eventual modernizationhowever , in the policies of the technocrats of beijing today , we see the same seeds of the same thinking of the old brittle bureaucratic mandarins that led to china 's previous downfall .
sheep are very harmonious , docile , placid creatures .
they 're also dumb .
dear china : why do you choose placid lies over ugly truths ?
the harmonious still pool is beautiful , but weak .
the raging river is ugly and dirty , but strongthe chinese government are turning their citizens into housepets .
this is not a strong nation , this is a weak one , populated by simpletons who could have been strong minds , but the chinese govermnet made sure they were empty weak minds , by censoring anything that would challenge the dominant monoculture .
yes , legions of robots can turn out lots of cheap goods , but you would think that you would like a china full of strong and wise chinese , not slaves .
and yet the chinese government clearly values their citizens only as slaves , unable to think on their own , with censorship policies that mean chinese minds are never exercisedthe chinese government does not respect its own citizens .
the chinese government 's censorship policies is recreating the conditions that led to china 's historical rot , and the chinese government 's policies will mean china will be weak again , and dominated and exploited againthat is why , in the name of respecting the chinese people , i do not respect the legitimacy of the chinese government .
the chinese government does not respect its own people .
the chinese government has an agenda which serves only its own flawed priorities , and do not serve its people</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the mind is like a muscle: work it out, challenge it with ideas hostile to your own, and you only wind up with a stronger mind and stronger ideasi understand that the technocrats think they are protecting the chinese citizen from foreign interference and degenerate thoughts, but for whatever perceived good is being done by a policy of censorship, the much larger real negative effect is to turn chinese citizens into cotton heads full of nothing but empty thoughts, placid lies.
the truth is always ugly and disharmonious.
that's what makes placid lies so much more attractivefor a mind where the serene lie is more valuable than the rude truth, inward thinking reigns.
this is the same inward thinking, away from the wider world, building a wall against the outside world, literal and figurative, that led to the rot of the old chinese dynasties, and left china weak and ripe for exploit by foreign powers.
the shame of this history drives so much of modern chinese infuriated pride: never again will china be defiled by foreign powers.
the literal and figurative rapes of japanese imperialism, the british opium wars to force heroin on its citizens: this led to china's rebellions and eventual modernizationhowever, in the policies of the technocrats of beijing today, we see the same seeds of the same thinking of the old brittle bureaucratic mandarins that led to china's previous downfall.
sheep are very harmonious, docile, placid creatures.
they're also dumb.
dear china: why do you choose placid lies over ugly truths?
the harmonious still pool is beautiful, but weak.
the raging river is ugly and dirty, but strongthe chinese government are turning their citizens into housepets.
this is not a strong nation, this is a weak one, populated by simpletons who could have been strong minds, but the chinese govermnet made sure they were empty weak minds, by censoring anything that would challenge the dominant monoculture.
yes, legions of robots can turn out lots of cheap goods, but you would think that you would like a china full of strong and wise chinese, not slaves.
and yet the chinese government clearly values their citizens only as slaves, unable to think on their own, with censorship policies that mean chinese minds are never exercisedthe chinese government does not respect its own citizens.
the chinese government's censorship policies is recreating the conditions that led to china's historical rot, and the chinese government's policies will mean china will be weak again, and dominated and exploited againthat is why, in the name of respecting the chinese people, i do not respect the legitimacy of the chinese government.
the chinese government does not respect its own people.
the chinese government has an agenda which serves only its own flawed priorities, and do not serve its people</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202224</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>icebraining</author>
	<datestamp>1258992660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In that case, selling the database would be bad for the people, which would get killed. But is it bad for the people to have a crippled browser than to have no browser at all? I don't think so. Or do you think the Opera Mobile is so important that China will give up their censoring just so they won't lose Opera Mobile?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In that case , selling the database would be bad for the people , which would get killed .
But is it bad for the people to have a crippled browser than to have no browser at all ?
I do n't think so .
Or do you think the Opera Mobile is so important that China will give up their censoring just so they wo n't lose Opera Mobile ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In that case, selling the database would be bad for the people, which would get killed.
But is it bad for the people to have a crippled browser than to have no browser at all?
I don't think so.
Or do you think the Opera Mobile is so important that China will give up their censoring just so they won't lose Opera Mobile?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30211976</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259066940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>Sticking to principles isn't free, there is always some sort of sacrifice involved.</i> </p></div> </blockquote><p>You could not be more wrong. Sticking to principles isn't a self-sacrifice; there is always some sort of advantage involved. If there is always sacrifice involved in your principles, then something is wrong with your principles.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sticking to principles is n't free , there is always some sort of sacrifice involved .
You could not be more wrong .
Sticking to principles is n't a self-sacrifice ; there is always some sort of advantage involved .
If there is always sacrifice involved in your principles , then something is wrong with your principles .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Sticking to principles isn't free, there is always some sort of sacrifice involved.
You could not be more wrong.
Sticking to principles isn't a self-sacrifice; there is always some sort of advantage involved.
If there is always sacrifice involved in your principles, then something is wrong with your principles.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201324</id>
	<title>I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258987860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Unfortunately there is no better browser for my needs. Still, good that this makes the news. Name and shame, but in the end it won't change a thing. The market in China is not something many companies will want to lose out on. And as long as we're still buying nike's or other clothes made by them little kids there, we better look in the mirror first.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately there is no better browser for my needs .
Still , good that this makes the news .
Name and shame , but in the end it wo n't change a thing .
The market in China is not something many companies will want to lose out on .
And as long as we 're still buying nike 's or other clothes made by them little kids there , we better look in the mirror first .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately there is no better browser for my needs.
Still, good that this makes the news.
Name and shame, but in the end it won't change a thing.
The market in China is not something many companies will want to lose out on.
And as long as we're still buying nike's or other clothes made by them little kids there, we better look in the mirror first.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202332</id>
	<title>Re:Torn</title>
	<author>Impy the Impiuos Imp</author>
	<datestamp>1258993320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Talk to your Congressman or the President.  The president is charged with the power to set foreign policy.  Currently, US policy is to increase freedom in China via econ  omic growth.  Like it or not, that's the policy, and it hasn't changed in 30 years.  And that includes browsers and Internet backbone software, which they would just clone, steal, or reproduce the hard way anyway.</p><p>So if you have a beef about censorship software itself, talk to Congress, and get them to pass punitive laws to companies that do business in the US if they provide censorship software.  They've done it for foreign companies that deal in Cuba who also deal in the US, so they could do it for China, too.</p><p>Oh, by the way, also stop voting for politicians who are happy to spend next generation's tax revenues this year <b>in exchange for your vote</b>.  In this way, we won't have to borrow so much money, and the president won't have to stand there while the Chinese leader subtly mocks him.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Talk to your Congressman or the President .
The president is charged with the power to set foreign policy .
Currently , US policy is to increase freedom in China via econ omic growth .
Like it or not , that 's the policy , and it has n't changed in 30 years .
And that includes browsers and Internet backbone software , which they would just clone , steal , or reproduce the hard way anyway.So if you have a beef about censorship software itself , talk to Congress , and get them to pass punitive laws to companies that do business in the US if they provide censorship software .
They 've done it for foreign companies that deal in Cuba who also deal in the US , so they could do it for China , too.Oh , by the way , also stop voting for politicians who are happy to spend next generation 's tax revenues this year in exchange for your vote .
In this way , we wo n't have to borrow so much money , and the president wo n't have to stand there while the Chinese leader subtly mocks him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Talk to your Congressman or the President.
The president is charged with the power to set foreign policy.
Currently, US policy is to increase freedom in China via econ  omic growth.
Like it or not, that's the policy, and it hasn't changed in 30 years.
And that includes browsers and Internet backbone software, which they would just clone, steal, or reproduce the hard way anyway.So if you have a beef about censorship software itself, talk to Congress, and get them to pass punitive laws to companies that do business in the US if they provide censorship software.
They've done it for foreign companies that deal in Cuba who also deal in the US, so they could do it for China, too.Oh, by the way, also stop voting for politicians who are happy to spend next generation's tax revenues this year in exchange for your vote.
In this way, we won't have to borrow so much money, and the president won't have to stand there while the Chinese leader subtly mocks him.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201894</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30204212</id>
	<title>I work at Opera.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259003760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Basically the Chinese Firewall is now blocking/redirecting our proxy IPs and ports.  We created a non-proxy version so that users can still at least use Opera Mini on their phones.<br> <br>
We offered uncensored Internet access to all of China for as long we could. We hope people were able to use the information to continue to fight for their freedom.<br> <br>
It's is really sad the Mozilla foundation has stood by and done nothing to get free information into China.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Basically the Chinese Firewall is now blocking/redirecting our proxy IPs and ports .
We created a non-proxy version so that users can still at least use Opera Mini on their phones .
We offered uncensored Internet access to all of China for as long we could .
We hope people were able to use the information to continue to fight for their freedom .
It 's is really sad the Mozilla foundation has stood by and done nothing to get free information into China .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Basically the Chinese Firewall is now blocking/redirecting our proxy IPs and ports.
We created a non-proxy version so that users can still at least use Opera Mini on their phones.
We offered uncensored Internet access to all of China for as long we could.
We hope people were able to use the information to continue to fight for their freedom.
It's is really sad the Mozilla foundation has stood by and done nothing to get free information into China.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201314</id>
	<title>This post is unavailable.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258987740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please Upgrade to Slashdot China.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please Upgrade to Slashdot China .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please Upgrade to Slashdot China.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30204074</id>
	<title>Re:Why do we expect corps. to do politics for us ?</title>
	<author>misexistentialist</author>
	<datestamp>1259002980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem is that the government is controlled by the corporations. Since we are no longer citizens, our only recourse is to use our significance as customers to persuade corporations to pass on directives to their political operatives. Unfortunately our status has steadily diminished with our buying power, though we may have some pull as the secret protein ingredient in Chinese baby formula.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that the government is controlled by the corporations .
Since we are no longer citizens , our only recourse is to use our significance as customers to persuade corporations to pass on directives to their political operatives .
Unfortunately our status has steadily diminished with our buying power , though we may have some pull as the secret protein ingredient in Chinese baby formula .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that the government is controlled by the corporations.
Since we are no longer citizens, our only recourse is to use our significance as customers to persuade corporations to pass on directives to their political operatives.
Unfortunately our status has steadily diminished with our buying power, though we may have some pull as the secret protein ingredient in Chinese baby formula.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201486</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30205826</id>
	<title>Re:No surprise</title>
	<author>hkmwbz</author>
	<datestamp>1258970100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Someone asked: "How does not having any kind of access to Opera Mobile/Google/etc helps the people in China, compared to having a censored version?"

<p>I haven't seen a response to that yet.

</p><p>What were Opera's alternatives?

</p><p>Refuse? They would be thrown in jail, and the Chinese office would be history.

</p><p>Pull out? How would that help anyone? It would just deprive the Chinese people of another way to access the web. The more ways to access the web, the more work for the government when they are trying to censor it. There needs to be as many ways to access the web as possible, because the more there are, the more difficult it is to police, and the easier it is to poke holes in the firewall.

</p><p>You are the one who bows in the name of money. You are so blinded by your ideology that you can't see the benefits of fighting monoculture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Someone asked : " How does not having any kind of access to Opera Mobile/Google/etc helps the people in China , compared to having a censored version ?
" I have n't seen a response to that yet .
What were Opera 's alternatives ?
Refuse ? They would be thrown in jail , and the Chinese office would be history .
Pull out ?
How would that help anyone ?
It would just deprive the Chinese people of another way to access the web .
The more ways to access the web , the more work for the government when they are trying to censor it .
There needs to be as many ways to access the web as possible , because the more there are , the more difficult it is to police , and the easier it is to poke holes in the firewall .
You are the one who bows in the name of money .
You are so blinded by your ideology that you ca n't see the benefits of fighting monoculture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Someone asked: "How does not having any kind of access to Opera Mobile/Google/etc helps the people in China, compared to having a censored version?
"

I haven't seen a response to that yet.
What were Opera's alternatives?
Refuse? They would be thrown in jail, and the Chinese office would be history.
Pull out?
How would that help anyone?
It would just deprive the Chinese people of another way to access the web.
The more ways to access the web, the more work for the government when they are trying to censor it.
There needs to be as many ways to access the web as possible, because the more there are, the more difficult it is to police, and the easier it is to poke holes in the firewall.
You are the one who bows in the name of money.
You are so blinded by your ideology that you can't see the benefits of fighting monoculture.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202672</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202962</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>notrandomly</author>
	<datestamp>1258996980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If you think it's a perfectly fine thing for Opera to do, then just say that.</p></div></blockquote><p>
What were Opera's options? Do you even know what actually happened? But hey, let's not worry about sacrificing Opera's employees in China, right? Also, did you ever consider that more services like Opera Mini means more difficulty enforcing the censorship, and a higher chance of cracks in the firewall?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you think it 's a perfectly fine thing for Opera to do , then just say that .
What were Opera 's options ?
Do you even know what actually happened ?
But hey , let 's not worry about sacrificing Opera 's employees in China , right ?
Also , did you ever consider that more services like Opera Mini means more difficulty enforcing the censorship , and a higher chance of cracks in the firewall ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you think it's a perfectly fine thing for Opera to do, then just say that.
What were Opera's options?
Do you even know what actually happened?
But hey, let's not worry about sacrificing Opera's employees in China, right?
Also, did you ever consider that more services like Opera Mini means more difficulty enforcing the censorship, and a higher chance of cracks in the firewall?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203000</id>
	<title>Re:Torn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258997160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>What do you think would happen if they didn't comply with the demands from the government? A slap on the wrist and "carry on as usual"? That's extremely naive. Rumors have it that Opera employees in China were going to be arrested (or "mysteriously" disappear) if they didn't comply. Maybe you would prefer that?

<p>And even if pulling completely out of China had been an option, it would have been a bad one. Don't you get it? Fewer services means less and easier work for the government when censoring. The more services, the more difficult for the government to keep track of everything, and the greater the chances of workarounds being open.

</p><p>As long as Opera keeps working in China there may be ways to work around the censorship (and there are). Opera pulling out wouldn't help at all!

</p><p>It's extremely short-sighted of you to assume that you know best, and that it's fine to sacrifice Opera's employees in China. It's extremely short-sighted not to see the benefit in more services meaning more potential cracks in the firewall.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What do you think would happen if they did n't comply with the demands from the government ?
A slap on the wrist and " carry on as usual " ?
That 's extremely naive .
Rumors have it that Opera employees in China were going to be arrested ( or " mysteriously " disappear ) if they did n't comply .
Maybe you would prefer that ?
And even if pulling completely out of China had been an option , it would have been a bad one .
Do n't you get it ?
Fewer services means less and easier work for the government when censoring .
The more services , the more difficult for the government to keep track of everything , and the greater the chances of workarounds being open .
As long as Opera keeps working in China there may be ways to work around the censorship ( and there are ) .
Opera pulling out would n't help at all !
It 's extremely short-sighted of you to assume that you know best , and that it 's fine to sacrifice Opera 's employees in China .
It 's extremely short-sighted not to see the benefit in more services meaning more potential cracks in the firewall .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What do you think would happen if they didn't comply with the demands from the government?
A slap on the wrist and "carry on as usual"?
That's extremely naive.
Rumors have it that Opera employees in China were going to be arrested (or "mysteriously" disappear) if they didn't comply.
Maybe you would prefer that?
And even if pulling completely out of China had been an option, it would have been a bad one.
Don't you get it?
Fewer services means less and easier work for the government when censoring.
The more services, the more difficult for the government to keep track of everything, and the greater the chances of workarounds being open.
As long as Opera keeps working in China there may be ways to work around the censorship (and there are).
Opera pulling out wouldn't help at all!
It's extremely short-sighted of you to assume that you know best, and that it's fine to sacrifice Opera's employees in China.
It's extremely short-sighted not to see the benefit in more services meaning more potential cracks in the firewall.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201894</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202166</id>
	<title>Re:I wonder what else...</title>
	<author>Ksevio</author>
	<datestamp>1258992480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>From what I remember, only http goes through the proxy, https obviously wouldn't be able to be compressed since they can't read it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From what I remember , only http goes through the proxy , https obviously would n't be able to be compressed since they ca n't read it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From what I remember, only http goes through the proxy, https obviously wouldn't be able to be compressed since they can't read it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30204244</id>
	<title>Re:Do You Expect Anything Different?</title>
	<author>mounthood</author>
	<datestamp>1259004000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It is unfortunate that companies in this situation are caving to the requests of a government that has different ideals about the freedom of information than we do, but honestly, do you expect anything different? </p></div><p>When companies don't like the laws they get them changed, world-wide if needed. (See copyright.) But in China the companies are already getting paid, so why should they try to change anything? Right?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is unfortunate that companies in this situation are caving to the requests of a government that has different ideals about the freedom of information than we do , but honestly , do you expect anything different ?
When companies do n't like the laws they get them changed , world-wide if needed .
( See copyright .
) But in China the companies are already getting paid , so why should they try to change anything ?
Right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is unfortunate that companies in this situation are caving to the requests of a government that has different ideals about the freedom of information than we do, but honestly, do you expect anything different?
When companies don't like the laws they get them changed, world-wide if needed.
(See copyright.
) But in China the companies are already getting paid, so why should they try to change anything?
Right?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201478</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30204698</id>
	<title>I was stuck with no browser at all</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259006520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, right, they censor. But let me give you my "user experience" of the event.<br>
<br>
It was saturday that, and I was showing around to the people of Citrix how much Shanghai is great, just right after the Xen Summit Asia 2009. Then we went to a mall to see the electronic. I wanted to check for a price and got that stupid page asking me to download. The issue being that I could NOT download it because for a reason, Opera MINI doesn't have the access rights to do it on my Nokia e62. So, at the end, I was stuck WITH NO BROWSER AT ALL. Thank you, M. GFofC, I couldn't check for the prices of the stuffs I wanted to buy, so I didn't buy anything. Yet another example of how much the censorship helps the economy...<br>
<br>
I hope you will understand why I'm posting this one anonymously...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , right , they censor .
But let me give you my " user experience " of the event .
It was saturday that , and I was showing around to the people of Citrix how much Shanghai is great , just right after the Xen Summit Asia 2009 .
Then we went to a mall to see the electronic .
I wanted to check for a price and got that stupid page asking me to download .
The issue being that I could NOT download it because for a reason , Opera MINI does n't have the access rights to do it on my Nokia e62 .
So , at the end , I was stuck WITH NO BROWSER AT ALL .
Thank you , M. GFofC , I could n't check for the prices of the stuffs I wanted to buy , so I did n't buy anything .
Yet another example of how much the censorship helps the economy.. . I hope you will understand why I 'm posting this one anonymously.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, right, they censor.
But let me give you my "user experience" of the event.
It was saturday that, and I was showing around to the people of Citrix how much Shanghai is great, just right after the Xen Summit Asia 2009.
Then we went to a mall to see the electronic.
I wanted to check for a price and got that stupid page asking me to download.
The issue being that I could NOT download it because for a reason, Opera MINI doesn't have the access rights to do it on my Nokia e62.
So, at the end, I was stuck WITH NO BROWSER AT ALL.
Thank you, M. GFofC, I couldn't check for the prices of the stuffs I wanted to buy, so I didn't buy anything.
Yet another example of how much the censorship helps the economy...

I hope you will understand why I'm posting this one anonymously...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202764</id>
	<title>Re:I wonder what else...</title>
	<author>notrandomly</author>
	<datestamp>1258995780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The fundamental design decision was a browser that could run on just about any phone. It just so happens that the only way to do this is with a thin client where the browser engine resides on the server.

<p>You are worried about Opera? What about your bank? Your doctor? Your ISP? A lot of organizations and companies have wide open access to your data.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The fundamental design decision was a browser that could run on just about any phone .
It just so happens that the only way to do this is with a thin client where the browser engine resides on the server .
You are worried about Opera ?
What about your bank ?
Your doctor ?
Your ISP ?
A lot of organizations and companies have wide open access to your data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fundamental design decision was a browser that could run on just about any phone.
It just so happens that the only way to do this is with a thin client where the browser engine resides on the server.
You are worried about Opera?
What about your bank?
Your doctor?
Your ISP?
A lot of organizations and companies have wide open access to your data.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202340</id>
	<title>Re:Boycott Opera!#!!</title>
	<author>Mashiki</author>
	<datestamp>1258993320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>America out of Europe?</p><p>Let me know when you figure out how to deal with the most unstable region of the world will you?  Then you can tell me how you're going to deal with the 4th most unstable region of the world.  The third most unstable has actually been quiet for last few years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>America out of Europe ? Let me know when you figure out how to deal with the most unstable region of the world will you ?
Then you can tell me how you 're going to deal with the 4th most unstable region of the world .
The third most unstable has actually been quiet for last few years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>America out of Europe?Let me know when you figure out how to deal with the most unstable region of the world will you?
Then you can tell me how you're going to deal with the 4th most unstable region of the world.
The third most unstable has actually been quiet for last few years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201556</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>paiute</author>
	<datestamp>1258989240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look, the Nazis need a database just like anyone else, don't they? It's not like our database is going to invade Poland. It's just a database, just a product. Everyone else is selling to them. What, you want us to lose out?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , the Nazis need a database just like anyone else , do n't they ?
It 's not like our database is going to invade Poland .
It 's just a database , just a product .
Everyone else is selling to them .
What , you want us to lose out ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, the Nazis need a database just like anyone else, don't they?
It's not like our database is going to invade Poland.
It's just a database, just a product.
Everyone else is selling to them.
What, you want us to lose out?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202530</id>
	<title>Re:Why do we expect corps. to do politics for us ?</title>
	<author>randomsearch</author>
	<datestamp>1258994520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Corporations are run by people.  People make the decisions.</p><p>Everyone has a responsibility to take into account the consequences of their decisions.  You can't hide behind "I shot that person because it adds shareholder value" - you still shot the person.  Nor does "If I hadn't shot them, Yahoo! would have done" wash - you still shot the person.  You cannot separate what you do in your work role from your personal responsibility.  It's still you, and it's still on your conscience.  If doing the right thing means you get fired, live with it and find a different occupation.  In many countries, we have the luxury of choice.</p><p>That said, some people (such as those at Google) have argued that censored access may be a limited force for good in China, which is better than no force at all.</p><p>Personally I don't agree with that argument but I understand it and they may be proven right in the long-term.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Corporations are run by people .
People make the decisions.Everyone has a responsibility to take into account the consequences of their decisions .
You ca n't hide behind " I shot that person because it adds shareholder value " - you still shot the person .
Nor does " If I had n't shot them , Yahoo !
would have done " wash - you still shot the person .
You can not separate what you do in your work role from your personal responsibility .
It 's still you , and it 's still on your conscience .
If doing the right thing means you get fired , live with it and find a different occupation .
In many countries , we have the luxury of choice.That said , some people ( such as those at Google ) have argued that censored access may be a limited force for good in China , which is better than no force at all.Personally I do n't agree with that argument but I understand it and they may be proven right in the long-term .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Corporations are run by people.
People make the decisions.Everyone has a responsibility to take into account the consequences of their decisions.
You can't hide behind "I shot that person because it adds shareholder value" - you still shot the person.
Nor does "If I hadn't shot them, Yahoo!
would have done" wash - you still shot the person.
You cannot separate what you do in your work role from your personal responsibility.
It's still you, and it's still on your conscience.
If doing the right thing means you get fired, live with it and find a different occupation.
In many countries, we have the luxury of choice.That said, some people (such as those at Google) have argued that censored access may be a limited force for good in China, which is better than no force at all.Personally I don't agree with that argument but I understand it and they may be proven right in the long-term.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201486</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201622</id>
	<title>Boycott Opera!#!!</title>
	<author>thetagger</author>
	<datestamp>1258989600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... or not. I mean, restricting some content on the web isn't nearly as bad as invading other countries, killing its civilians by the hundreds of thousands and setting up puppet governments, and yet nobody here is calling for boycotts against American companies that support all of this (which is all of them, or at least those that pay taxes).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... or not .
I mean , restricting some content on the web is n't nearly as bad as invading other countries , killing its civilians by the hundreds of thousands and setting up puppet governments , and yet nobody here is calling for boycotts against American companies that support all of this ( which is all of them , or at least those that pay taxes ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... or not.
I mean, restricting some content on the web isn't nearly as bad as invading other countries, killing its civilians by the hundreds of thousands and setting up puppet governments, and yet nobody here is calling for boycotts against American companies that support all of this (which is all of them, or at least those that pay taxes).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203242</id>
	<title>Re:This post is unavailable.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258998360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's too much lead in Slashdot China.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's too much lead in Slashdot China .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's too much lead in Slashdot China.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201314</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30223200</id>
	<title>Re:a censored mind is a weak mind</title>
	<author>Ronald Wilson Reagan</author>
	<datestamp>1259089200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Dear Leader Hu Jintao, tear down this wall!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Dear Leader Hu Jintao , tear down this wall !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dear Leader Hu Jintao, tear down this wall!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201658</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201762</id>
	<title>12 Pieces of Silver</title>
	<author>ctdownunder</author>
	<datestamp>1258990560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>US republicans (and democrats) with their sub set of wacky right wing christian religious nuts are very quick to forget their anti communist beliefs when money is involved.</p><p>Even the more educated Slashdot crowd is very "pragmatic" with China.</p><p>China sucks not because it is a communist state, it sucks because it is a police state. But who cares, if we can make a buck, we can all ignore in bliss the Chinese government's peccadilloes.</p><p>Fascist, communist, fake democratic national security states (Australia/UK/Russia/USA etc.), all the same crap. Sell your soul for your bank owned plastic McMansion and your cool cars. Let's just leave it to the "free" market, who cares about politics anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>US republicans ( and democrats ) with their sub set of wacky right wing christian religious nuts are very quick to forget their anti communist beliefs when money is involved.Even the more educated Slashdot crowd is very " pragmatic " with China.China sucks not because it is a communist state , it sucks because it is a police state .
But who cares , if we can make a buck , we can all ignore in bliss the Chinese government 's peccadilloes.Fascist , communist , fake democratic national security states ( Australia/UK/Russia/USA etc .
) , all the same crap .
Sell your soul for your bank owned plastic McMansion and your cool cars .
Let 's just leave it to the " free " market , who cares about politics anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>US republicans (and democrats) with their sub set of wacky right wing christian religious nuts are very quick to forget their anti communist beliefs when money is involved.Even the more educated Slashdot crowd is very "pragmatic" with China.China sucks not because it is a communist state, it sucks because it is a police state.
But who cares, if we can make a buck, we can all ignore in bliss the Chinese government's peccadilloes.Fascist, communist, fake democratic national security states (Australia/UK/Russia/USA etc.
), all the same crap.
Sell your soul for your bank owned plastic McMansion and your cool cars.
Let's just leave it to the "free" market, who cares about politics anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201680</id>
	<title>They should have split the difference...</title>
	<author>MikeRT</author>
	<datestamp>1258989960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Turn the proxies over to another authority or company like a European ISP and make Opera Mini customizable to go back to using proxies like those.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Turn the proxies over to another authority or company like a European ISP and make Opera Mini customizable to go back to using proxies like those .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Turn the proxies over to another authority or company like a European ISP and make Opera Mini customizable to go back to using proxies like those.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202372</id>
	<title>Re:12 Pieces of Silver</title>
	<author>icebraining</author>
	<datestamp>1258993500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How does not having any kind of access to Opera Mobile/Google/etc helps the people in China, compared to having a censored version?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How does not having any kind of access to Opera Mobile/Google/etc helps the people in China , compared to having a censored version ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How does not having any kind of access to Opera Mobile/Google/etc helps the people in China, compared to having a censored version?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201762</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30205534</id>
	<title>To what extent sacrifice?</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1258968600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Sticking to principles isn't free, there is always some sort of sacrifice involved.</p></div><p>If the company with the monopoly contract to supply electricity to your city were doing some immoral things, would you have the principles to join the Amish so as not to support this company?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sticking to principles is n't free , there is always some sort of sacrifice involved.If the company with the monopoly contract to supply electricity to your city were doing some immoral things , would you have the principles to join the Amish so as not to support this company ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sticking to principles isn't free, there is always some sort of sacrifice involved.If the company with the monopoly contract to supply electricity to your city were doing some immoral things, would you have the principles to join the Amish so as not to support this company?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30205164</id>
	<title>Re:I wonder what else...</title>
	<author>SharpFang</author>
	<datestamp>1259009280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know what they -do- but they definitely -can- read it.</p><p>Note this is not a transparent proxy and a fully-featured browser. It's more like a mix between heavily packet-mangling NAT and VNC/Remote Desktop, running a full browser remotely (on the proxy) and only displaying the heavily processed remote version locally (on the mobile device).</p><p>So Opera Mini can outsource all the HTTPS encryption, authentication, certification and so on to the proxy, and download the decrypted (and then re-encrypted by Opera with its own keys) "secure" content.</p><p>What the User sees:<br>luser@victim.net\% Evil-ssh bonus@treasure.com<br>bonus@treasure.com's password: *******<br>bonus@treasure.com\% cat ~/secret</p><p>What really happens:<br>luser@victim.net\% ssh sucker@evil.org<br>sucker@evil.org's password: ******<br>sucker@evil.org\% ssh bonus@treasure.com<br>bonus@treasure.com's password: *******<br>bonus@treasure.com\% cat ~/secret</p><p>The connection between Victim and Evil is encrypted (Evil is a reputable company which provides a convenient ssh client that can run on hardware on which normal ssh has problems running.)</p><p>The connection between Evil and Treasure is encrypted, because Treasure is a public service anyone with the password can access, and Evil can do encryption just fine.</p><p>Evil can intercept all the communication just fine. After all, it's their private key they encrypt connection to Treasure with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know what they -do- but they definitely -can- read it.Note this is not a transparent proxy and a fully-featured browser .
It 's more like a mix between heavily packet-mangling NAT and VNC/Remote Desktop , running a full browser remotely ( on the proxy ) and only displaying the heavily processed remote version locally ( on the mobile device ) .So Opera Mini can outsource all the HTTPS encryption , authentication , certification and so on to the proxy , and download the decrypted ( and then re-encrypted by Opera with its own keys ) " secure " content.What the User sees : luser @ victim.net \ % Evil-ssh bonus @ treasure.combonus @ treasure.com 's password : * * * * * * * bonus @ treasure.com \ % cat ~ /secretWhat really happens : luser @ victim.net \ % ssh sucker @ evil.orgsucker @ evil.org 's password : * * * * * * sucker @ evil.org \ % ssh bonus @ treasure.combonus @ treasure.com 's password : * * * * * * * bonus @ treasure.com \ % cat ~ /secretThe connection between Victim and Evil is encrypted ( Evil is a reputable company which provides a convenient ssh client that can run on hardware on which normal ssh has problems running .
) The connection between Evil and Treasure is encrypted , because Treasure is a public service anyone with the password can access , and Evil can do encryption just fine.Evil can intercept all the communication just fine .
After all , it 's their private key they encrypt connection to Treasure with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know what they -do- but they definitely -can- read it.Note this is not a transparent proxy and a fully-featured browser.
It's more like a mix between heavily packet-mangling NAT and VNC/Remote Desktop, running a full browser remotely (on the proxy) and only displaying the heavily processed remote version locally (on the mobile device).So Opera Mini can outsource all the HTTPS encryption, authentication, certification and so on to the proxy, and download the decrypted (and then re-encrypted by Opera with its own keys) "secure" content.What the User sees:luser@victim.net\% Evil-ssh bonus@treasure.combonus@treasure.com's password: *******bonus@treasure.com\% cat ~/secretWhat really happens:luser@victim.net\% ssh sucker@evil.orgsucker@evil.org's password: ******sucker@evil.org\% ssh bonus@treasure.combonus@treasure.com's password: *******bonus@treasure.com\% cat ~/secretThe connection between Victim and Evil is encrypted (Evil is a reputable company which provides a convenient ssh client that can run on hardware on which normal ssh has problems running.
)The connection between Evil and Treasure is encrypted, because Treasure is a public service anyone with the password can access, and Evil can do encryption just fine.Evil can intercept all the communication just fine.
After all, it's their private key they encrypt connection to Treasure with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202166</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30204898</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>GrievousMistake</author>
	<datestamp>1259007720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't see that Opera has done anything particularly protest-worthy here. Maintaining proxies to circumvent oppressive regimes' firewalls, admirable as it might be, is not in my default expectations of a browser company, and I can't help but notice that neither the Mozilla Project, Microsoft or Apple provide such a service, leaving you with few places to turn if you're going to boycott everyone who isn't in the trenches fighting the CPC.<br>It's regrettable that the government of China chose to operate this way, but Opera merely chose to follow the local law by restricting access to a service, much as every search engine of note has done, in China, Germany, the US and elsewhere.<br>If we as a society really don't want to economically aid a state employing political censorship, we should stop pussy-footing around and enact a proper embargo. Yeah, that won't happen.</p><p>I differentiate between not actively resisting, and actively aiding, though. If, for instance, Opera released the internet browsing history of individuals on request, that'd be a serious breach of trust in my eyes, and I'd do my part to name and shame.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see that Opera has done anything particularly protest-worthy here .
Maintaining proxies to circumvent oppressive regimes ' firewalls , admirable as it might be , is not in my default expectations of a browser company , and I ca n't help but notice that neither the Mozilla Project , Microsoft or Apple provide such a service , leaving you with few places to turn if you 're going to boycott everyone who is n't in the trenches fighting the CPC.It 's regrettable that the government of China chose to operate this way , but Opera merely chose to follow the local law by restricting access to a service , much as every search engine of note has done , in China , Germany , the US and elsewhere.If we as a society really do n't want to economically aid a state employing political censorship , we should stop pussy-footing around and enact a proper embargo .
Yeah , that wo n't happen.I differentiate between not actively resisting , and actively aiding , though .
If , for instance , Opera released the internet browsing history of individuals on request , that 'd be a serious breach of trust in my eyes , and I 'd do my part to name and shame .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see that Opera has done anything particularly protest-worthy here.
Maintaining proxies to circumvent oppressive regimes' firewalls, admirable as it might be, is not in my default expectations of a browser company, and I can't help but notice that neither the Mozilla Project, Microsoft or Apple provide such a service, leaving you with few places to turn if you're going to boycott everyone who isn't in the trenches fighting the CPC.It's regrettable that the government of China chose to operate this way, but Opera merely chose to follow the local law by restricting access to a service, much as every search engine of note has done, in China, Germany, the US and elsewhere.If we as a society really don't want to economically aid a state employing political censorship, we should stop pussy-footing around and enact a proper embargo.
Yeah, that won't happen.I differentiate between not actively resisting, and actively aiding, though.
If, for instance, Opera released the internet browsing history of individuals on request, that'd be a serious breach of trust in my eyes, and I'd do my part to name and shame.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30204514</id>
	<title>FOSS- free as in... um... something</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1259005380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So we now see the high and mighty claims of the FOSSies of being "Teh Free As In Teh Freedumb!!!!1111one" are as phony as they are.</p><p>Time for the FOSS hipsters to come out and admit they are more interested in bashing Microsoft than anything else.  Their "freedom" talking point has been proven bogus.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So we now see the high and mighty claims of the FOSSies of being " Teh Free As In Teh Freedumb ! ! !
! 1111one " are as phony as they are.Time for the FOSS hipsters to come out and admit they are more interested in bashing Microsoft than anything else .
Their " freedom " talking point has been proven bogus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So we now see the high and mighty claims of the FOSSies of being "Teh Free As In Teh Freedumb!!!
!1111one" are as phony as they are.Time for the FOSS hipsters to come out and admit they are more interested in bashing Microsoft than anything else.
Their "freedom" talking point has been proven bogus.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201314</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30212482</id>
	<title>Serious question</title>
	<author>coresnake</author>
	<datestamp>1259071260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So does anyone have a useful alternative to offer? I'm bummed now that I can't watch YouTube anymore (again).</htmltext>
<tokenext>So does anyone have a useful alternative to offer ?
I 'm bummed now that I ca n't watch YouTube anymore ( again ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So does anyone have a useful alternative to offer?
I'm bummed now that I can't watch YouTube anymore (again).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201654</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>mdwh2</author>
	<datestamp>1258989780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I disagree he was painting himself as a moral person - he was upfront about that fact that he couldn't protest in this manner, and so it was clear that he wasn't trying to paint himself this way.</p><p>It's unclear how this kind of protest would work anyway, since Opera is free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree he was painting himself as a moral person - he was upfront about that fact that he could n't protest in this manner , and so it was clear that he was n't trying to paint himself this way.It 's unclear how this kind of protest would work anyway , since Opera is free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree he was painting himself as a moral person - he was upfront about that fact that he couldn't protest in this manner, and so it was clear that he wasn't trying to paint himself this way.It's unclear how this kind of protest would work anyway, since Opera is free.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202698</id>
	<title>Re:I wonder what else...</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1258995420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> Good encryption simultaneously compresses the data, because the encrypted result is designed to contain maximum entropy so that it&rsquo;s indistinguishable from random data. In theory, anyway.</p></div><p>Not true.  Both encryption and compression increase entropy, but neither implies the other.  An encrypted message will be the same length as the plaintext, but with more entropy.  With a perfectly encrypted message, it is impossible to guess the next bit from the preceding ones.  With a perfectly compressed message, it is also impossible to guess the next bit from the preceding ones.  In the case of encryption, it is because each bit value has been permuted in some way.  The only perfect kind of encryption is a one-time pad with a random source.  Every bit value is XOR'd (for example) with the next bit from the random source.  To predict what the next bit will be, you need to know both the next bit of the plain text and the next bit of the random source.  This is not possible by definition: if it is, then the source is not random.  </p><p>
Compression works differently.  It reads the bits in sequence, and if the next bit can be predicted from the preceding ones via some algorithm, then it omits it (massive oversimplification here).  The end result is a stream of bits which are difficult to compress further because the algorithm can not predict any sequence of bits from any other sequence of bits. </p><p>
You can take a source message, compress it, and encrypt the result, and you will end up with a shorter encrypted text than if you just encrypt it.  If you encrypt it first, then there should be no predictability in the encoded text and so you won't be able to compress it.  You can combine SSL with gzip using HTTPS, which compresses the response and then encrypts it, but the encryption and compression are entirely independent steps.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good encryption simultaneously compresses the data , because the encrypted result is designed to contain maximum entropy so that it    s indistinguishable from random data .
In theory , anyway.Not true .
Both encryption and compression increase entropy , but neither implies the other .
An encrypted message will be the same length as the plaintext , but with more entropy .
With a perfectly encrypted message , it is impossible to guess the next bit from the preceding ones .
With a perfectly compressed message , it is also impossible to guess the next bit from the preceding ones .
In the case of encryption , it is because each bit value has been permuted in some way .
The only perfect kind of encryption is a one-time pad with a random source .
Every bit value is XOR 'd ( for example ) with the next bit from the random source .
To predict what the next bit will be , you need to know both the next bit of the plain text and the next bit of the random source .
This is not possible by definition : if it is , then the source is not random .
Compression works differently .
It reads the bits in sequence , and if the next bit can be predicted from the preceding ones via some algorithm , then it omits it ( massive oversimplification here ) .
The end result is a stream of bits which are difficult to compress further because the algorithm can not predict any sequence of bits from any other sequence of bits .
You can take a source message , compress it , and encrypt the result , and you will end up with a shorter encrypted text than if you just encrypt it .
If you encrypt it first , then there should be no predictability in the encoded text and so you wo n't be able to compress it .
You can combine SSL with gzip using HTTPS , which compresses the response and then encrypts it , but the encryption and compression are entirely independent steps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Good encryption simultaneously compresses the data, because the encrypted result is designed to contain maximum entropy so that it’s indistinguishable from random data.
In theory, anyway.Not true.
Both encryption and compression increase entropy, but neither implies the other.
An encrypted message will be the same length as the plaintext, but with more entropy.
With a perfectly encrypted message, it is impossible to guess the next bit from the preceding ones.
With a perfectly compressed message, it is also impossible to guess the next bit from the preceding ones.
In the case of encryption, it is because each bit value has been permuted in some way.
The only perfect kind of encryption is a one-time pad with a random source.
Every bit value is XOR'd (for example) with the next bit from the random source.
To predict what the next bit will be, you need to know both the next bit of the plain text and the next bit of the random source.
This is not possible by definition: if it is, then the source is not random.
Compression works differently.
It reads the bits in sequence, and if the next bit can be predicted from the preceding ones via some algorithm, then it omits it (massive oversimplification here).
The end result is a stream of bits which are difficult to compress further because the algorithm can not predict any sequence of bits from any other sequence of bits.
You can take a source message, compress it, and encrypt the result, and you will end up with a shorter encrypted text than if you just encrypt it.
If you encrypt it first, then there should be no predictability in the encoded text and so you won't be able to compress it.
You can combine SSL with gzip using HTTPS, which compresses the response and then encrypts it, but the encryption and compression are entirely independent steps.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203588</id>
	<title>Not really.</title>
	<author>tjstork</author>
	<datestamp>1259000280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>It's like an attempt to paint yourself as a moral person, while being lazy and not doing anything anyway.</i></p><p>Not really.  He could just say, "yeah, I hate how Opera deals with China.. but they still make a pretty good browser."</p><p>Do you propose we work to overthrow the Chinese government?  I thought we learned from the Bush administration that idealistic crusades are a heap of trouble in their own right.  Maybe at some point you have to say "screw the Chinese people", and move on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's like an attempt to paint yourself as a moral person , while being lazy and not doing anything anyway.Not really .
He could just say , " yeah , I hate how Opera deals with China.. but they still make a pretty good browser .
" Do you propose we work to overthrow the Chinese government ?
I thought we learned from the Bush administration that idealistic crusades are a heap of trouble in their own right .
Maybe at some point you have to say " screw the Chinese people " , and move on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's like an attempt to paint yourself as a moral person, while being lazy and not doing anything anyway.Not really.
He could just say, "yeah, I hate how Opera deals with China.. but they still make a pretty good browser.
"Do you propose we work to overthrow the Chinese government?
I thought we learned from the Bush administration that idealistic crusades are a heap of trouble in their own right.
Maybe at some point you have to say "screw the Chinese people", and move on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201488</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30211238</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>notrandomly</author>
	<datestamp>1259058840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Invalid analogy detected.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Invalid analogy detected .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Invalid analogy detected.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201456</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258988700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Better it be the poor kids getting money for making nike's, then it be the rich kids. Why does everyone assume that it hurts the the poor contries that we send work to them?</p><p>The old "think of the children" situation was about the working \_conditions\_ not the very fact that they had work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Better it be the poor kids getting money for making nike 's , then it be the rich kids .
Why does everyone assume that it hurts the the poor contries that we send work to them ? The old " think of the children " situation was about the working \ _conditions \ _ not the very fact that they had work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Better it be the poor kids getting money for making nike's, then it be the rich kids.
Why does everyone assume that it hurts the the poor contries that we send work to them?The old "think of the children" situation was about the working \_conditions\_ not the very fact that they had work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202678</id>
	<title>Re:Do You Expect Anything Different?</title>
	<author>notrandomly</author>
	<datestamp>1258995300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Furthermore, if they did fight China on this one, I think it would be naive to think that they did it for any other reason that as a calculated risk to gain marketshare and ultimately profit.</p></div></blockquote><p>
The rumors that all their employees in China were going to be arrested if they didn't comply may just shine a different light on the whole thing...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Furthermore , if they did fight China on this one , I think it would be naive to think that they did it for any other reason that as a calculated risk to gain marketshare and ultimately profit .
The rumors that all their employees in China were going to be arrested if they did n't comply may just shine a different light on the whole thing.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Furthermore, if they did fight China on this one, I think it would be naive to think that they did it for any other reason that as a calculated risk to gain marketshare and ultimately profit.
The rumors that all their employees in China were going to be arrested if they didn't comply may just shine a different light on the whole thing...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201478</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202440</id>
	<title>Re:Remember:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258993920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's been this way for much longer than 100 years. Censorship is, and always has been, a way of life for the Chinese. It is not a problem and it is in fact supported by many of Chinese people. The mindset is completely different from that of Americans/English.</p><p>For example, many secrets are kept within Chinese families. You NEVER talk about something that can make your family lose face, no matter if it's true or not. I have a lifetime of firsthand experience with the "do" and "do nots" because half of my family is Chinese. Family pride at almost any cost is something that is drilled in from a very early age. This same ideal reaches out to the government as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's been this way for much longer than 100 years .
Censorship is , and always has been , a way of life for the Chinese .
It is not a problem and it is in fact supported by many of Chinese people .
The mindset is completely different from that of Americans/English.For example , many secrets are kept within Chinese families .
You NEVER talk about something that can make your family lose face , no matter if it 's true or not .
I have a lifetime of firsthand experience with the " do " and " do nots " because half of my family is Chinese .
Family pride at almost any cost is something that is drilled in from a very early age .
This same ideal reaches out to the government as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's been this way for much longer than 100 years.
Censorship is, and always has been, a way of life for the Chinese.
It is not a problem and it is in fact supported by many of Chinese people.
The mindset is completely different from that of Americans/English.For example, many secrets are kept within Chinese families.
You NEVER talk about something that can make your family lose face, no matter if it's true or not.
I have a lifetime of firsthand experience with the "do" and "do nots" because half of my family is Chinese.
Family pride at almost any cost is something that is drilled in from a very early age.
This same ideal reaches out to the government as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201526</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30204934</id>
	<title>in defense of the firewall, what if...</title>
	<author>drougie</author>
	<datestamp>1259007900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know this is not its intended purpose, but given how the overwhelming majority of hacking attempts, automated or otherwise, come from Chinese IPs, and having a reputation as the digital nuisance country may be undesirable to them, why not take this thing a step further and try to curb some of the common hacking attempts from shooting out of their country?</p><p>I assume they can block outgoing and incoming data, if they can blacklist they could also whitelist, they can URL filter (which could come in handy for some kinds of attacks through the web server involving sql invading urls or maybe roundcube or wordpress http vulnerabilities), they can filter packets to, for one of many instances, spot and stop people using google to find websites using and old version phpmyadmin and phpbb, couldn't be too hard for them to spot IPs trying to log in to some server outside the wall over a thousand times in a few hours,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... why don't the Chinese just hire the nod32 guys to come up with a list of no-no behavior, definitions to red flag their IPs that are infected with very malicious and communicative viruses and redirect those IPs to windows update and nod32 and avast and the trendmicro online thing? They clean their machines to the Great Firewall's satisfaction, then they get their internet back.</p><p>They'd be doing the world a service, they could pull off some of the above without it being too much of a logistical or political nightmare and they'd take a step in the direction of not being in the butt of jokes for how 90\% of IPs showing up on network intrusion software logs are Chinese. They'd turn this vast and elaborate system much of the world finds objectionable into something that also does Good Things.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know this is not its intended purpose , but given how the overwhelming majority of hacking attempts , automated or otherwise , come from Chinese IPs , and having a reputation as the digital nuisance country may be undesirable to them , why not take this thing a step further and try to curb some of the common hacking attempts from shooting out of their country ? I assume they can block outgoing and incoming data , if they can blacklist they could also whitelist , they can URL filter ( which could come in handy for some kinds of attacks through the web server involving sql invading urls or maybe roundcube or wordpress http vulnerabilities ) , they can filter packets to , for one of many instances , spot and stop people using google to find websites using and old version phpmyadmin and phpbb , could n't be too hard for them to spot IPs trying to log in to some server outside the wall over a thousand times in a few hours , ... why do n't the Chinese just hire the nod32 guys to come up with a list of no-no behavior , definitions to red flag their IPs that are infected with very malicious and communicative viruses and redirect those IPs to windows update and nod32 and avast and the trendmicro online thing ?
They clean their machines to the Great Firewall 's satisfaction , then they get their internet back.They 'd be doing the world a service , they could pull off some of the above without it being too much of a logistical or political nightmare and they 'd take a step in the direction of not being in the butt of jokes for how 90 \ % of IPs showing up on network intrusion software logs are Chinese .
They 'd turn this vast and elaborate system much of the world finds objectionable into something that also does Good Things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know this is not its intended purpose, but given how the overwhelming majority of hacking attempts, automated or otherwise, come from Chinese IPs, and having a reputation as the digital nuisance country may be undesirable to them, why not take this thing a step further and try to curb some of the common hacking attempts from shooting out of their country?I assume they can block outgoing and incoming data, if they can blacklist they could also whitelist, they can URL filter (which could come in handy for some kinds of attacks through the web server involving sql invading urls or maybe roundcube or wordpress http vulnerabilities), they can filter packets to, for one of many instances, spot and stop people using google to find websites using and old version phpmyadmin and phpbb, couldn't be too hard for them to spot IPs trying to log in to some server outside the wall over a thousand times in a few hours, ... why don't the Chinese just hire the nod32 guys to come up with a list of no-no behavior, definitions to red flag their IPs that are infected with very malicious and communicative viruses and redirect those IPs to windows update and nod32 and avast and the trendmicro online thing?
They clean their machines to the Great Firewall's satisfaction, then they get their internet back.They'd be doing the world a service, they could pull off some of the above without it being too much of a logistical or political nightmare and they'd take a step in the direction of not being in the butt of jokes for how 90\% of IPs showing up on network intrusion software logs are Chinese.
They'd turn this vast and elaborate system much of the world finds objectionable into something that also does Good Things.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202990</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258997160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Right on! A very apropos point. You can just imagine the Opera engineers rationalizing that move. You can imagine a similar discussion amongst the engineers laying out Auschwitz. "Hey Vilmer once you get done figuring out how to get the Zyklon B into the showers, come over here and look at this neat sign I designed to put over the top of the gate, it says 'Arbeit macht frei'!"</p><p>Way to go you hardworking Opera programmers!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Right on !
A very apropos point .
You can just imagine the Opera engineers rationalizing that move .
You can imagine a similar discussion amongst the engineers laying out Auschwitz .
" Hey Vilmer once you get done figuring out how to get the Zyklon B into the showers , come over here and look at this neat sign I designed to put over the top of the gate , it says 'Arbeit macht frei ' !
" Way to go you hardworking Opera programmers !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right on!
A very apropos point.
You can just imagine the Opera engineers rationalizing that move.
You can imagine a similar discussion amongst the engineers laying out Auschwitz.
"Hey Vilmer once you get done figuring out how to get the Zyklon B into the showers, come over here and look at this neat sign I designed to put over the top of the gate, it says 'Arbeit macht frei'!
"Way to go you hardworking Opera programmers!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201556</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203946</id>
	<title>Re:Boycott Opera!#!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous Bullard</author>
	<datestamp>1259002200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>... or not. I mean, restricting some content on the web isn't nearly as bad as invading other countries, killing its civilians by the hundreds of thousands and setting up puppet governments, and yet nobody here is calling for boycotts against American companies that support all of this (which is all of them, or at least those that pay taxes).</p></div></blockquote><p>Huh!?</p><p>There are indeed reasons to boycott many American corporations and the USA has indeed committed crimes against other nations, but despite their best efforts they're not a remorseless genocidal colonizer with authoritarian regime with total Orwellian propaganda control over peoples lacking any safeguards of rule of law or freedoms of association or speech.</p><p>That's the "People's republic" of China.</p><p>Now kindly put that moral relativist gripe of yours about "restricting some content on the web" at the behest of that regime in some kind of perspective.</p><p>Fact: the longer the Chinese population is only fed CCP propaganda and denied access to the information the CCP wants to deny them, the longer the horror show behind the facade continues. Is that what you want to be advocating here?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>... or not .
I mean , restricting some content on the web is n't nearly as bad as invading other countries , killing its civilians by the hundreds of thousands and setting up puppet governments , and yet nobody here is calling for boycotts against American companies that support all of this ( which is all of them , or at least those that pay taxes ) .Huh !
? There are indeed reasons to boycott many American corporations and the USA has indeed committed crimes against other nations , but despite their best efforts they 're not a remorseless genocidal colonizer with authoritarian regime with total Orwellian propaganda control over peoples lacking any safeguards of rule of law or freedoms of association or speech.That 's the " People 's republic " of China.Now kindly put that moral relativist gripe of yours about " restricting some content on the web " at the behest of that regime in some kind of perspective.Fact : the longer the Chinese population is only fed CCP propaganda and denied access to the information the CCP wants to deny them , the longer the horror show behind the facade continues .
Is that what you want to be advocating here ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... or not.
I mean, restricting some content on the web isn't nearly as bad as invading other countries, killing its civilians by the hundreds of thousands and setting up puppet governments, and yet nobody here is calling for boycotts against American companies that support all of this (which is all of them, or at least those that pay taxes).Huh!
?There are indeed reasons to boycott many American corporations and the USA has indeed committed crimes against other nations, but despite their best efforts they're not a remorseless genocidal colonizer with authoritarian regime with total Orwellian propaganda control over peoples lacking any safeguards of rule of law or freedoms of association or speech.That's the "People's republic" of China.Now kindly put that moral relativist gripe of yours about "restricting some content on the web" at the behest of that regime in some kind of perspective.Fact: the longer the Chinese population is only fed CCP propaganda and denied access to the information the CCP wants to deny them, the longer the horror show behind the facade continues.
Is that what you want to be advocating here?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203018</id>
	<title>How about ahmmering from the outside</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258997280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why don't we in the west hammer chinas firewall/prxy servers with as many worms/trojans and viruses as possible. When the whole of china cease being able to get Internet access, they would have to take the wall down or face open revolt.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do n't we in the west hammer chinas firewall/prxy servers with as many worms/trojans and viruses as possible .
When the whole of china cease being able to get Internet access , they would have to take the wall down or face open revolt .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why don't we in the west hammer chinas firewall/prxy servers with as many worms/trojans and viruses as possible.
When the whole of china cease being able to get Internet access, they would have to take the wall down or face open revolt.
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202784</id>
	<title>Re:Remember:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258996020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>oh, the temptation to "correct" your rant with USA instead of China is almost overwhelming - but your inflated-ego exceptionalism wouldn't register the irony, so it's not really worth the bother, is it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>oh , the temptation to " correct " your rant with USA instead of China is almost overwhelming - but your inflated-ego exceptionalism would n't register the irony , so it 's not really worth the bother , is it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>oh, the temptation to "correct" your rant with USA instead of China is almost overwhelming - but your inflated-ego exceptionalism wouldn't register the irony, so it's not really worth the bother, is it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201526</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202338</id>
	<title>Re:Boycott Opera!#!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258993320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nice straw man! Are you humming the melody to <em>If I Only Had A Brain</em> too?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nice straw man !
Are you humming the melody to If I Only Had A Brain too ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nice straw man!
Are you humming the melody to If I Only Had A Brain too?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201622</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30204900</id>
	<title>CmdrTaco=Troll</title>
	<author>AmigaHeretic</author>
	<datestamp>1259007720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>to joyfully contribute to prosperous growth of the Great Firewall of China</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>Truly; 'To Get Rich Is Glorious.'</p></div><p>
Trolling doesn't get more obvious than this.
<br> <br>
Pretty pathetic.
<br> <br> <br>
I can't help but notice that Opera 10.10 with the long awaited (by some) Opera Unite was released TODAY and there is no mention on Slashdot.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>to joyfully contribute to prosperous growth of the Great Firewall of ChinaTruly ; 'To Get Rich Is Glorious .
' Trolling does n't get more obvious than this .
Pretty pathetic .
I ca n't help but notice that Opera 10.10 with the long awaited ( by some ) Opera Unite was released TODAY and there is no mention on Slashdot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to joyfully contribute to prosperous growth of the Great Firewall of ChinaTruly; 'To Get Rich Is Glorious.
'
Trolling doesn't get more obvious than this.
Pretty pathetic.
I can't help but notice that Opera 10.10 with the long awaited (by some) Opera Unite was released TODAY and there is no mention on Slashdot.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30203236</id>
	<title>Re:Torn</title>
	<author>Surt</author>
	<datestamp>1258998360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No google = grossly less efficient economy = eventual failure of the state = freedom from the party.</p><p>It's exactly what brought down the USSR, but won't happen in China if every western firm chooses to do business there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No google = grossly less efficient economy = eventual failure of the state = freedom from the party.It 's exactly what brought down the USSR , but wo n't happen in China if every western firm chooses to do business there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No google = grossly less efficient economy = eventual failure of the state = freedom from the party.It's exactly what brought down the USSR, but won't happen in China if every western firm chooses to do business there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202000</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202410</id>
	<title>Re:I wonder what else...</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1258993680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good encryption simultaneously compresses the data, because the encrypted result is designed to contain maximum entropy so that it&rsquo;s indistinguishable from random data. In theory, anyway.</p><p>You can compress things that you can&rsquo;t read, no problem (well, you can read it, but you can&rsquo;t decipher it). What you can&rsquo;t compress is incompressible data. It would be useless to try to compress https traffic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good encryption simultaneously compresses the data , because the encrypted result is designed to contain maximum entropy so that it    s indistinguishable from random data .
In theory , anyway.You can compress things that you can    t read , no problem ( well , you can read it , but you can    t decipher it ) .
What you can    t compress is incompressible data .
It would be useless to try to compress https traffic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good encryption simultaneously compresses the data, because the encrypted result is designed to contain maximum entropy so that it’s indistinguishable from random data.
In theory, anyway.You can compress things that you can’t read, no problem (well, you can read it, but you can’t decipher it).
What you can’t compress is incompressible data.
It would be useless to try to compress https traffic.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202166</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202824</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>notrandomly</author>
	<datestamp>1258996260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Would you change your search engine (Google) out of protest since they are doing the same thing in China?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Would you change your search engine ( Google ) out of protest since they are doing the same thing in China ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would you change your search engine (Google) out of protest since they are doing the same thing in China?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201324</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201376</id>
	<title>I wonder what else...</title>
	<author>SharpFang</author>
	<datestamp>1258988160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...happens to whatever is filtered through Opera proxy. Stats, passwords, preferences, online purchases, banking - this all goes through the Opera proxies and is wide open to employees. Although a small slice of the WWW market, Opera gets an insight into much larger piece of online activities of its users than, say, Google does - it has "phone home and report everything, ever" built in as its fundamental design decision.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...happens to whatever is filtered through Opera proxy .
Stats , passwords , preferences , online purchases , banking - this all goes through the Opera proxies and is wide open to employees .
Although a small slice of the WWW market , Opera gets an insight into much larger piece of online activities of its users than , say , Google does - it has " phone home and report everything , ever " built in as its fundamental design decision .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...happens to whatever is filtered through Opera proxy.
Stats, passwords, preferences, online purchases, banking - this all goes through the Opera proxies and is wide open to employees.
Although a small slice of the WWW market, Opera gets an insight into much larger piece of online activities of its users than, say, Google does - it has "phone home and report everything, ever" built in as its fundamental design decision.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201488</id>
	<title>Re:I would change browser out of protest</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258988820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I would change browser out of protest. Unfortunately there is no better browser for my needs.</p></div></blockquote><p>That's awfully principled of you. "I would stop eating at a restaurant where the owner is an asshole, but then I'd have to walk half a mile more". It's like an attempt to paint yourself as a moral person, while being lazy and not doing anything anyway.</p><p>If you think it's really the wrong thing to do, and wrong enough to justify a switch to something else, then switch. If you think it's a perfectly fine thing for Opera to do, then just say that. But to take your option is simply hypocrisy. Sticking to principles isn't free, there is always some sort of sacrifice involved.</p><blockquote><div><p>Still, good that this makes the news. Name and shame, but in the end it won't change a thing.</p></div></blockquote><p>The way you're doing it, indeed it won't.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would change browser out of protest .
Unfortunately there is no better browser for my needs.That 's awfully principled of you .
" I would stop eating at a restaurant where the owner is an asshole , but then I 'd have to walk half a mile more " .
It 's like an attempt to paint yourself as a moral person , while being lazy and not doing anything anyway.If you think it 's really the wrong thing to do , and wrong enough to justify a switch to something else , then switch .
If you think it 's a perfectly fine thing for Opera to do , then just say that .
But to take your option is simply hypocrisy .
Sticking to principles is n't free , there is always some sort of sacrifice involved.Still , good that this makes the news .
Name and shame , but in the end it wo n't change a thing.The way you 're doing it , indeed it wo n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would change browser out of protest.
Unfortunately there is no better browser for my needs.That's awfully principled of you.
"I would stop eating at a restaurant where the owner is an asshole, but then I'd have to walk half a mile more".
It's like an attempt to paint yourself as a moral person, while being lazy and not doing anything anyway.If you think it's really the wrong thing to do, and wrong enough to justify a switch to something else, then switch.
If you think it's a perfectly fine thing for Opera to do, then just say that.
But to take your option is simply hypocrisy.
Sticking to principles isn't free, there is always some sort of sacrifice involved.Still, good that this makes the news.
Name and shame, but in the end it won't change a thing.The way you're doing it, indeed it won't.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30201324</parent>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_23_1328228_28</id>
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_23_1328228.30202990
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