<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_20_1829216</id>
	<title>Microsoft's Lack of Nightly Builds For IE</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1258708380000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Ricky writes <i>"Many wonder why Microsoft doesn't offer nightly builds of Internet Explorer &mdash; or at least something more frequent than months-to-years. Ars talks with Microsoft's general manager for IE, who says the IE9 development cycle <a href="http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/11/microsofts-problematic-lack-of-nightly-builds-for-ie.ars">will look much the same as previous versions</a>. Not a great idea."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ricky writes " Many wonder why Microsoft does n't offer nightly builds of Internet Explorer    or at least something more frequent than months-to-years .
Ars talks with Microsoft 's general manager for IE , who says the IE9 development cycle will look much the same as previous versions .
Not a great idea .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ricky writes "Many wonder why Microsoft doesn't offer nightly builds of Internet Explorer — or at least something more frequent than months-to-years.
Ars talks with Microsoft's general manager for IE, who says the IE9 development cycle will look much the same as previous versions.
Not a great idea.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30179008</id>
	<title>IE Feedback system EXISTS</title>
	<author>ProfessionalCookie</author>
	<datestamp>1258717920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Moreover I tried to sign up for the <a href="https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/Feedback" title="microsoft.com">IE bug feedback system</a> [microsoft.com].
<br> <br>
1. It required me to get a live account.  I did.
<br> <br>
2. It required me to "register" with my live account.  It didn't work with Webkit so I fired up Firefox, then I did.
<br> <br>
3. It required email confirmation of my live account.  I confirmed it.
<br> <br>
4. It asked me to register to be able to vote on issues (GOTO 2)
<br> <br>
No wonder the feedback is minimal and useless (as in not real bug reporting).  There's probably no one who cares on the other end anyway</htmltext>
<tokenext>Moreover I tried to sign up for the IE bug feedback system [ microsoft.com ] .
1. It required me to get a live account .
I did .
2. It required me to " register " with my live account .
It did n't work with Webkit so I fired up Firefox , then I did .
3. It required email confirmation of my live account .
I confirmed it .
4. It asked me to register to be able to vote on issues ( GOTO 2 ) No wonder the feedback is minimal and useless ( as in not real bug reporting ) .
There 's probably no one who cares on the other end anyway</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Moreover I tried to sign up for the IE bug feedback system [microsoft.com].
1. It required me to get a live account.
I did.
2. It required me to "register" with my live account.
It didn't work with Webkit so I fired up Firefox, then I did.
3. It required email confirmation of my live account.
I confirmed it.
4. It asked me to register to be able to vote on issues (GOTO 2)
 
No wonder the feedback is minimal and useless (as in not real bug reporting).
There's probably no one who cares on the other end anyway</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30196160</id>
	<title>Re:Of course not....</title>
	<author>Simetrical</author>
	<datestamp>1258882980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As a key product in a proprietary OS, why would you want to run nightly builds of IE? With Firefox my browser may be unstable, but at least the rest of my system stays stable, but with IE a lot of Windows components use Trident and that isn't going to be a good thing.</p></div><p>WebKit is heavily used in OS X too, AFAIK, but they still provide nightlies.  It doesn't replace the existing version on your system, it's an extra one that you can manually run as part of specific programs.  So you'd use the nightly build to test, but other programs would keep using the standard system build.

</p><p>It also doesn't have to be called "Internet Explorer".  It could be called something different, like "Trident Development Version" or something.  Firefox nightlies are called Minefield.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Plus, with Firefox if you file a bug they appreciate that and generally fix it right away</p></div><p>You must have only filed really trivial or critical bugs, then.  I've filed <a href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?emailreporter1=1&amp;emailtype1=exact&amp;email1=Simetrical\%2Bff@gmail.com" title="mozilla.org">five bugs</a> [mozilla.org].  One is WORKSFORME (turned out to be a broken font), one is DUPLICATE (to a bug rated critical and open since 2002), and the other three remain open.  No project under the sun is able to fix most reported bugs quickly; there are just too many things to do.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a key product in a proprietary OS , why would you want to run nightly builds of IE ?
With Firefox my browser may be unstable , but at least the rest of my system stays stable , but with IE a lot of Windows components use Trident and that is n't going to be a good thing.WebKit is heavily used in OS X too , AFAIK , but they still provide nightlies .
It does n't replace the existing version on your system , it 's an extra one that you can manually run as part of specific programs .
So you 'd use the nightly build to test , but other programs would keep using the standard system build .
It also does n't have to be called " Internet Explorer " .
It could be called something different , like " Trident Development Version " or something .
Firefox nightlies are called Minefield.Plus , with Firefox if you file a bug they appreciate that and generally fix it right awayYou must have only filed really trivial or critical bugs , then .
I 've filed five bugs [ mozilla.org ] .
One is WORKSFORME ( turned out to be a broken font ) , one is DUPLICATE ( to a bug rated critical and open since 2002 ) , and the other three remain open .
No project under the sun is able to fix most reported bugs quickly ; there are just too many things to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a key product in a proprietary OS, why would you want to run nightly builds of IE?
With Firefox my browser may be unstable, but at least the rest of my system stays stable, but with IE a lot of Windows components use Trident and that isn't going to be a good thing.WebKit is heavily used in OS X too, AFAIK, but they still provide nightlies.
It doesn't replace the existing version on your system, it's an extra one that you can manually run as part of specific programs.
So you'd use the nightly build to test, but other programs would keep using the standard system build.
It also doesn't have to be called "Internet Explorer".
It could be called something different, like "Trident Development Version" or something.
Firefox nightlies are called Minefield.Plus, with Firefox if you file a bug they appreciate that and generally fix it right awayYou must have only filed really trivial or critical bugs, then.
I've filed five bugs [mozilla.org].
One is WORKSFORME (turned out to be a broken font), one is DUPLICATE (to a bug rated critical and open since 2002), and the other three remain open.
No project under the sun is able to fix most reported bugs quickly; there are just too many things to do.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177558</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>eln</author>
	<datestamp>1258712580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The better question would be why Ricky believes not releasing nightly builds is "not a great idea".  What part of Microsoft's standard development cycle would benefit from nightly builds?  Why would Microsoft decide to release nightly builds, which are inherently unstable, to a public that loves to pick on MS for producing unstable software?  Why would MS risk some bored journalist writing a hit piece on IE 9 based on a particularly faulty nightly build just on the off chance someone out in the ether might give them some useful feedback on it?
<br> <br>
In short, why the hell would they release nightly builds?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The better question would be why Ricky believes not releasing nightly builds is " not a great idea " .
What part of Microsoft 's standard development cycle would benefit from nightly builds ?
Why would Microsoft decide to release nightly builds , which are inherently unstable , to a public that loves to pick on MS for producing unstable software ?
Why would MS risk some bored journalist writing a hit piece on IE 9 based on a particularly faulty nightly build just on the off chance someone out in the ether might give them some useful feedback on it ?
In short , why the hell would they release nightly builds ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The better question would be why Ricky believes not releasing nightly builds is "not a great idea".
What part of Microsoft's standard development cycle would benefit from nightly builds?
Why would Microsoft decide to release nightly builds, which are inherently unstable, to a public that loves to pick on MS for producing unstable software?
Why would MS risk some bored journalist writing a hit piece on IE 9 based on a particularly faulty nightly build just on the off chance someone out in the ether might give them some useful feedback on it?
In short, why the hell would they release nightly builds?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30181038</id>
	<title>Re:Agile isn't the only legitimate way!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258729380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obviously we have different ideas of Agile. To me, Agile is a small release with realistic goals every 2 weeks or so and plenty of feedback. A nightly build is for Alpha testers, and users are not only unwelcome, but a hindrance.</p><p>The "2 week" frame (or whatever interval you prefer). is supposed to be just long enough to make a credible, benchmark while ensuring that time wasted going down the inevitable blind alleys is minimized.</p><p>If I wanted my portrait painted, and demanded to critique it every time the artist switched brush colors, I'd probably get assaulted. And I'd deserve it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obviously we have different ideas of Agile .
To me , Agile is a small release with realistic goals every 2 weeks or so and plenty of feedback .
A nightly build is for Alpha testers , and users are not only unwelcome , but a hindrance.The " 2 week " frame ( or whatever interval you prefer ) .
is supposed to be just long enough to make a credible , benchmark while ensuring that time wasted going down the inevitable blind alleys is minimized.If I wanted my portrait painted , and demanded to critique it every time the artist switched brush colors , I 'd probably get assaulted .
And I 'd deserve it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obviously we have different ideas of Agile.
To me, Agile is a small release with realistic goals every 2 weeks or so and plenty of feedback.
A nightly build is for Alpha testers, and users are not only unwelcome, but a hindrance.The "2 week" frame (or whatever interval you prefer).
is supposed to be just long enough to make a credible, benchmark while ensuring that time wasted going down the inevitable blind alleys is minimized.If I wanted my portrait painted, and demanded to critique it every time the artist switched brush colors, I'd probably get assaulted.
And I'd deserve it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30178200</id>
	<title>Stupid design decisions</title>
	<author>diegocg</author>
	<datestamp>1258714800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They probably can't do it easily - IE is so tied to the internal of Windows that installing a nightly IE you are touching too many internals that could break easily. And it replaces your current IE install. That's why I never test IE beta/RC releases.</p><p>Now we can see how stupid it was to tie IE so strongly to the rest of the system. If Windows was a reasonably designed piece of software, Microsoft could several versions of IE at the same time. You could try a nigthly IE9  build without deleting the stable version.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They probably ca n't do it easily - IE is so tied to the internal of Windows that installing a nightly IE you are touching too many internals that could break easily .
And it replaces your current IE install .
That 's why I never test IE beta/RC releases.Now we can see how stupid it was to tie IE so strongly to the rest of the system .
If Windows was a reasonably designed piece of software , Microsoft could several versions of IE at the same time .
You could try a nigthly IE9 build without deleting the stable version .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They probably can't do it easily - IE is so tied to the internal of Windows that installing a nightly IE you are touching too many internals that could break easily.
And it replaces your current IE install.
That's why I never test IE beta/RC releases.Now we can see how stupid it was to tie IE so strongly to the rest of the system.
If Windows was a reasonably designed piece of software, Microsoft could several versions of IE at the same time.
You could try a nigthly IE9  build without deleting the stable version.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30179578</id>
	<title>Re:More Microsoft Bashing</title>
	<author>dbIII</author>
	<datestamp>1258720560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Why is the finger always at Microsoft?</p></div></blockquote><p>Because many of us use their stuff and despair at the problems that arise that we cannot fix and the Microsoft will ignore.<br>That creates a culture of just complaining to each other about the company in general.  We say to each other things like "this was the company that was given the BSD source code on a plate and still couldn't get even ping right" and other things non-techies would find completely irrelevent.<br>Just filter the MS stories out - there's not going to be much else other than jaded comments from those subjected to years of MS hype that treat every announcement from MS as a lie.  In hindsight they may be right nearly every time, but to start with it's a preconception.  It's not like racism, it's not "all dogs bite" but instead "that ornery blue eyed dog is going to bite me again I just know it".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is the finger always at Microsoft ? Because many of us use their stuff and despair at the problems that arise that we can not fix and the Microsoft will ignore.That creates a culture of just complaining to each other about the company in general .
We say to each other things like " this was the company that was given the BSD source code on a plate and still could n't get even ping right " and other things non-techies would find completely irrelevent.Just filter the MS stories out - there 's not going to be much else other than jaded comments from those subjected to years of MS hype that treat every announcement from MS as a lie .
In hindsight they may be right nearly every time , but to start with it 's a preconception .
It 's not like racism , it 's not " all dogs bite " but instead " that ornery blue eyed dog is going to bite me again I just know it " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is the finger always at Microsoft?Because many of us use their stuff and despair at the problems that arise that we cannot fix and the Microsoft will ignore.That creates a culture of just complaining to each other about the company in general.
We say to each other things like "this was the company that was given the BSD source code on a plate and still couldn't get even ping right" and other things non-techies would find completely irrelevent.Just filter the MS stories out - there's not going to be much else other than jaded comments from those subjected to years of MS hype that treat every announcement from MS as a lie.
In hindsight they may be right nearly every time, but to start with it's a preconception.
It's not like racism, it's not "all dogs bite" but instead "that ornery blue eyed dog is going to bite me again I just know it".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177600</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>skirtsteak\_asshat</author>
	<datestamp>1258712760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nightly builds... you mean like OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE?  Why doesn't M$ make OSS?  Is that the question?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nightly builds... you mean like OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE ?
Why does n't M $ make OSS ?
Is that the question ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nightly builds... you mean like OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE?
Why doesn't M$ make OSS?
Is that the question?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30180772</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...Pre-Christmas gift,shoes,handbag</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258727460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.coolforsale.com/" title="coolforsale.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.coolforsale.com/</a> [coolforsale.com]  Christmas is around the corner: And old customers can also enjoy the gifts sent by my company in a can also request to our company. Gifts lot,Buy more get the moreOnly this site have this treatmentOur goal is "Best quality, Best reputation , Best services". Your satisfaction is our main pursue. You can find the best products from us, meeting your different needs. Ladies and Gentlemen weicome to my coolforsale.com.Here,there are the most fashion products . Pass by but don't miss it.Select your favorite clothing! Welcome to come next time ! Thank you! <a href="http://www.coolforsale.com/productlist.asp?id=s76" title="coolforsale.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.coolforsale.com/productlist.asp?id=s76</a> [coolforsale.com]   (Tracksuit w) ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket, Air jordan(1-24)shoes $33 Nike shox(R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3) $35 Handbags(Coach lv fendi d&amp;g) $35 Tshirts (Polo<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,ed hardy,lacoste) $16 free shipping competitive price any size available accept the paypal Thanks</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.coolforsale.com/ [ coolforsale.com ] Christmas is around the corner : And old customers can also enjoy the gifts sent by my company in a can also request to our company .
Gifts lot,Buy more get the moreOnly this site have this treatmentOur goal is " Best quality , Best reputation , Best services " .
Your satisfaction is our main pursue .
You can find the best products from us , meeting your different needs .
Ladies and Gentlemen weicome to my coolforsale.com.Here,there are the most fashion products .
Pass by but do n't miss it.Select your favorite clothing !
Welcome to come next time !
Thank you !
http : //www.coolforsale.com/productlist.asp ? id = s76 [ coolforsale.com ] ( Tracksuit w ) ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket , Air jordan ( 1-24 ) shoes $ 33 Nike shox ( R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3 ) $ 35 Handbags ( Coach lv fendi d&amp;g ) $ 35 Tshirts ( Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste ) $ 16 free shipping competitive price any size available accept the paypal Thanks</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.coolforsale.com/ [coolforsale.com]  Christmas is around the corner: And old customers can also enjoy the gifts sent by my company in a can also request to our company.
Gifts lot,Buy more get the moreOnly this site have this treatmentOur goal is "Best quality, Best reputation , Best services".
Your satisfaction is our main pursue.
You can find the best products from us, meeting your different needs.
Ladies and Gentlemen weicome to my coolforsale.com.Here,there are the most fashion products .
Pass by but don't miss it.Select your favorite clothing!
Welcome to come next time !
Thank you!
http://www.coolforsale.com/productlist.asp?id=s76 [coolforsale.com]   (Tracksuit w) ugg boot,POLO hoody,Jacket, Air jordan(1-24)shoes $33 Nike shox(R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL2,TL3) $35 Handbags(Coach lv fendi d&amp;g) $35 Tshirts (Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste) $16 free shipping competitive price any size available accept the paypal Thanks</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177486</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>hansamurai</author>
	<datestamp>1258712340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The nightlies of Microsoft Bob basically killed all positive hype for the program.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The nightlies of Microsoft Bob basically killed all positive hype for the program .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The nightlies of Microsoft Bob basically killed all positive hype for the program.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177462</id>
	<title>Well...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258712220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just because some open-source linux losers release nightly builds, doesn't mean that you should.</p><p>And now that I've assured this post of being marked troll or flamebait, the answer is they (sorta) do, probably mostly monthly builds though.  Per the development system in place, all those patches we get once a month for everything would be considered new builds per Linux/OSS standards.  THey just don't release the ENTIRE ie package over and over with new build numbers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just because some open-source linux losers release nightly builds , does n't mean that you should.And now that I 've assured this post of being marked troll or flamebait , the answer is they ( sorta ) do , probably mostly monthly builds though .
Per the development system in place , all those patches we get once a month for everything would be considered new builds per Linux/OSS standards .
THey just do n't release the ENTIRE ie package over and over with new build numbers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just because some open-source linux losers release nightly builds, doesn't mean that you should.And now that I've assured this post of being marked troll or flamebait, the answer is they (sorta) do, probably mostly monthly builds though.
Per the development system in place, all those patches we get once a month for everything would be considered new builds per Linux/OSS standards.
THey just don't release the ENTIRE ie package over and over with new build numbers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177910</id>
	<title>Maybe it takes more than a day to build it?</title>
	<author>kriston</author>
	<datestamp>1258713840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Microsoft build labs has been described in many books but one thing that stood out to me was the alleged fact that most builds, like Windows, take well over 24 hours to finish.  Given how tied into the operating system that MSIE is, I suppose that a build of MSIE would require a significant build of Windows as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Microsoft build labs has been described in many books but one thing that stood out to me was the alleged fact that most builds , like Windows , take well over 24 hours to finish .
Given how tied into the operating system that MSIE is , I suppose that a build of MSIE would require a significant build of Windows as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Microsoft build labs has been described in many books but one thing that stood out to me was the alleged fact that most builds, like Windows, take well over 24 hours to finish.
Given how tied into the operating system that MSIE is, I suppose that a build of MSIE would require a significant build of Windows as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30178004</id>
	<title>This simply does not make sense</title>
	<author>93 Escort Wagon</author>
	<datestamp>1258714140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am not a fan of Internet Explorer at all - however I know people who are, and I can't imagine this mattering to them in the least.</p><p>Heck, I can't imagine the vast majority of Firefox or Safari/Chrome users caring about those available snapshots; and I say that as someone who has used nightly builds for both those products fairly frequently!</p><p>This just seems silly on the face of it. "Microsoft doesn't follow Firefox's development path", complains a Firefox fan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am not a fan of Internet Explorer at all - however I know people who are , and I ca n't imagine this mattering to them in the least.Heck , I ca n't imagine the vast majority of Firefox or Safari/Chrome users caring about those available snapshots ; and I say that as someone who has used nightly builds for both those products fairly frequently ! This just seems silly on the face of it .
" Microsoft does n't follow Firefox 's development path " , complains a Firefox fan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am not a fan of Internet Explorer at all - however I know people who are, and I can't imagine this mattering to them in the least.Heck, I can't imagine the vast majority of Firefox or Safari/Chrome users caring about those available snapshots; and I say that as someone who has used nightly builds for both those products fairly frequently!This just seems silly on the face of it.
"Microsoft doesn't follow Firefox's development path", complains a Firefox fan.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30178072</id>
	<title>Looks like I'm not part of them</title>
	<author>hrimhari</author>
	<datestamp>1258714320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Many wonder why Microsoft doesn't offer nightly builds of Internet Explorer</p></div><p>For some reason, that never crossed my mind. I always assumed that it just wasn't their release model.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Many wonder why Microsoft does n't offer nightly builds of Internet ExplorerFor some reason , that never crossed my mind .
I always assumed that it just was n't their release model .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many wonder why Microsoft doesn't offer nightly builds of Internet ExplorerFor some reason, that never crossed my mind.
I always assumed that it just wasn't their release model.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30179892</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>QuietObserver</author>
	<datestamp>1258722240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><blockquote><div><p>Many wonder why Microsoft doesn't offer nightly builds of Internet Explorer</p></div></blockquote><p>

Um, because they never have and never will?</p></div></blockquote><p>

Or maybe because that would show the world how slowly they develop their software?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Many wonder why Microsoft does n't offer nightly builds of Internet Explorer Um , because they never have and never will ?
Or maybe because that would show the world how slowly they develop their software ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many wonder why Microsoft doesn't offer nightly builds of Internet Explorer

Um, because they never have and never will?
Or maybe because that would show the world how slowly they develop their software?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30178134</id>
	<title>Coming up next</title>
	<author>Sowbug</author>
	<datestamp>1258714560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Can bees think? A new study indicates that no, they cannot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Can bees think ?
A new study indicates that no , they can not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can bees think?
A new study indicates that no, they cannot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177816</id>
	<title>Of course not....</title>
	<author>Darkness404</author>
	<datestamp>1258713540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a key product in a proprietary OS, why would you want to run nightly builds of IE? With Firefox my browser may be unstable, but at least the rest of my system stays stable, but with IE a lot of Windows components use Trident and that isn't going to be a good thing. Plus, with Firefox if you file a bug they appreciate that and generally fix it right away, even security vulnerabilities aren't promptly fixed on IE, let alone user suggestions....</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a key product in a proprietary OS , why would you want to run nightly builds of IE ?
With Firefox my browser may be unstable , but at least the rest of my system stays stable , but with IE a lot of Windows components use Trident and that is n't going to be a good thing .
Plus , with Firefox if you file a bug they appreciate that and generally fix it right away , even security vulnerabilities are n't promptly fixed on IE , let alone user suggestions... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a key product in a proprietary OS, why would you want to run nightly builds of IE?
With Firefox my browser may be unstable, but at least the rest of my system stays stable, but with IE a lot of Windows components use Trident and that isn't going to be a good thing.
Plus, with Firefox if you file a bug they appreciate that and generally fix it right away, even security vulnerabilities aren't promptly fixed on IE, let alone user suggestions....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30183508</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>praseodym</author>
	<datestamp>1258809720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What if they'd just release their rendering engine, with a very simple UI which only lets testers enter a URL? After all, most of the problems are in IE's rendering engine, not in its UI. That would solve the problem of journalists etc. looking at it as a real product.</p><p>Now, I do doubt the usefulness. We can't improve the code like we can with open source projects. Giving feedback about the rendering engine isn't all too useful either, because the IE team cares about standards nowadays and uses many tests themselves (W3C testsets, Acid3, CSS3.info). They already know the bugs, so the only thing we could conclude with a nightly is how far along they are.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What if they 'd just release their rendering engine , with a very simple UI which only lets testers enter a URL ?
After all , most of the problems are in IE 's rendering engine , not in its UI .
That would solve the problem of journalists etc .
looking at it as a real product.Now , I do doubt the usefulness .
We ca n't improve the code like we can with open source projects .
Giving feedback about the rendering engine is n't all too useful either , because the IE team cares about standards nowadays and uses many tests themselves ( W3C testsets , Acid3 , CSS3.info ) .
They already know the bugs , so the only thing we could conclude with a nightly is how far along they are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if they'd just release their rendering engine, with a very simple UI which only lets testers enter a URL?
After all, most of the problems are in IE's rendering engine, not in its UI.
That would solve the problem of journalists etc.
looking at it as a real product.Now, I do doubt the usefulness.
We can't improve the code like we can with open source projects.
Giving feedback about the rendering engine isn't all too useful either, because the IE team cares about standards nowadays and uses many tests themselves (W3C testsets, Acid3, CSS3.info).
They already know the bugs, so the only thing we could conclude with a nightly is how far along they are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177850</id>
	<title>Nightmare</title>
	<author>gmuslera</author>
	<datestamp>1258713720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They are built at night too, and you get more or less the same security feeling.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They are built at night too , and you get more or less the same security feeling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are built at night too, and you get more or less the same security feeling.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30178906</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>dgatwood</author>
	<datestamp>1258717500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Why would Microsoft decide to release nightly builds, which are inherently unstable, to a public that loves to pick on MS for producing unstable software?</p></div></blockquote><p>Simple.  It means that bugs get found and fixed early before too much code depends on the incorrect behavior.  The inability to fix bugs without breaking things has always been IE's greatest weakness.</p><p> <a href="http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1451976&amp;cid=30178810" title="slashdot.org">http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1451976&amp;cid=30178810</a> [slashdot.org] </p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would Microsoft decide to release nightly builds , which are inherently unstable , to a public that loves to pick on MS for producing unstable software ? Simple .
It means that bugs get found and fixed early before too much code depends on the incorrect behavior .
The inability to fix bugs without breaking things has always been IE 's greatest weakness .
http : //developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl ? sid = 1451976&amp;cid = 30178810 [ slashdot.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why would Microsoft decide to release nightly builds, which are inherently unstable, to a public that loves to pick on MS for producing unstable software?Simple.
It means that bugs get found and fixed early before too much code depends on the incorrect behavior.
The inability to fix bugs without breaking things has always been IE's greatest weakness.
http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1451976&amp;cid=30178810 [slashdot.org] 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30182584</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>DocHoncho</author>
	<datestamp>1258834740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nightly builds would be almost entirely used by MS shops to test their websites against.  A nightly build would be hidden deep within some developer centric section of the website, Joe Sixpack wouldn't ever stumble across it.  Worrying about the few clueless idiots who download alpha software w/o understanding what they're getting into are hardly even worth considering.  As for people using nightlies to pick on Microsoft, those people will pick on MS nightly builds or no.  So a buggy nightly gives some jackass on the internet cause to blog about how "ie9 is teh sux0rz." Oh noez.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nightly builds would be almost entirely used by MS shops to test their websites against .
A nightly build would be hidden deep within some developer centric section of the website , Joe Sixpack would n't ever stumble across it .
Worrying about the few clueless idiots who download alpha software w/o understanding what they 're getting into are hardly even worth considering .
As for people using nightlies to pick on Microsoft , those people will pick on MS nightly builds or no .
So a buggy nightly gives some jackass on the internet cause to blog about how " ie9 is teh sux0rz .
" Oh noez .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nightly builds would be almost entirely used by MS shops to test their websites against.
A nightly build would be hidden deep within some developer centric section of the website, Joe Sixpack wouldn't ever stumble across it.
Worrying about the few clueless idiots who download alpha software w/o understanding what they're getting into are hardly even worth considering.
As for people using nightlies to pick on Microsoft, those people will pick on MS nightly builds or no.
So a buggy nightly gives some jackass on the internet cause to blog about how "ie9 is teh sux0rz.
" Oh noez.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177518</id>
	<title>Yea they have it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258712460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sure the developers have one, or maybe something that can be done ondemand. No point having one for the public imo</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sure the developers have one , or maybe something that can be done ondemand .
No point having one for the public imo</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sure the developers have one, or maybe something that can be done ondemand.
No point having one for the public imo</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177658</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>El Lobo</author>
	<datestamp>1258712940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wonder if dear kdawson really knows what "a build" is... or if he just saw the words "Microsoft" and "bad idea" and just began salivating... <p>

Shitty article. Nothing to see here....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if dear kdawson really knows what " a build " is... or if he just saw the words " Microsoft " and " bad idea " and just began salivating.. . Shitty article .
Nothing to see here... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if dear kdawson really knows what "a build" is... or if he just saw the words "Microsoft" and "bad idea" and just began salivating... 

Shitty article.
Nothing to see here....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177390</id>
	<title>good</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258712040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>less IE releases the better. eventually it will fade to obscurity like M$FT.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>less IE releases the better .
eventually it will fade to obscurity like M $ FT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>less IE releases the better.
eventually it will fade to obscurity like M$FT.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30181234</id>
	<title>Re:This story is bookmarked</title>
	<author>Bluebottel</author>
	<datestamp>1258731060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/11/20/170212/How-Heavy-Is-the-Internet" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">This is just in, update your bookmark</a> [slashdot.org].</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just in , update your bookmark [ slashdot.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just in, update your bookmark [slashdot.org].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30178154</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177892</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258713780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also there are a more than a few people working inside microsoft on Windows and IE who are probably running more frequent builds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also there are a more than a few people working inside microsoft on Windows and IE who are probably running more frequent builds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also there are a more than a few people working inside microsoft on Windows and IE who are probably running more frequent builds.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30179822</id>
	<title>McDonalds' Nightly Builds...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258721760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nightly builds, if they were released every time:</p><p>Bun<br>Bun<br>Bun<br>Bun<br>Meat<br>Meat<br>Bun + Meat<br>Bun + Meat<br>Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour<br>Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour<br>Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour<br>Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour<br>Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour<br>Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour<br>GHERKIN!<br>Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin<br>Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt<br>Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt++<br>Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt+++++<br>Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt + Tomato<br>Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt + That Other Stuff<br>Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt + That Other Slightly Better Stuff<br>Quarter Pounder With Cheese</p><p>As an IT Manager for one of the 100 biggest companies in the world, I couldn't give a flying f*ck about the inbetween. All I want to know is what we're getting. And if it breaks a part of our fundamental application stack, we'll complain or won't use it. If I want something in the release, I'll lobby for it. If you want to be part of the IE development cycle, sign an agreement with MS to be a part of it, then you'll get the alphas and beta.</p><p>Total non-story.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nightly builds , if they were released every time : BunBunBunBunMeatMeatBun + MeatBun + MeatBun + Meat + Meaty FlavourBun + Meat + Meaty FlavourBun + Meat + Meaty FlavourBun + Meat + Meaty FlavourBun + Meat + Meaty FlavourBun + Meat + Meaty FlavourGHERKIN ! Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + GherkinBun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + SaltBun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt + + Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt + + + + + Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt + TomatoBun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt + That Other StuffBun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt + That Other Slightly Better StuffQuarter Pounder With CheeseAs an IT Manager for one of the 100 biggest companies in the world , I could n't give a flying f * ck about the inbetween .
All I want to know is what we 're getting .
And if it breaks a part of our fundamental application stack , we 'll complain or wo n't use it .
If I want something in the release , I 'll lobby for it .
If you want to be part of the IE development cycle , sign an agreement with MS to be a part of it , then you 'll get the alphas and beta.Total non-story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nightly builds, if they were released every time:BunBunBunBunMeatMeatBun + MeatBun + MeatBun + Meat + Meaty FlavourBun + Meat + Meaty FlavourBun + Meat + Meaty FlavourBun + Meat + Meaty FlavourBun + Meat + Meaty FlavourBun + Meat + Meaty FlavourGHERKIN!Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + GherkinBun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + SaltBun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt++Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt+++++Bun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt + TomatoBun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt + That Other StuffBun + Meat + Meaty Flavour + Gherkin + Salt + That Other Slightly Better StuffQuarter Pounder With CheeseAs an IT Manager for one of the 100 biggest companies in the world, I couldn't give a flying f*ck about the inbetween.
All I want to know is what we're getting.
And if it breaks a part of our fundamental application stack, we'll complain or won't use it.
If I want something in the release, I'll lobby for it.
If you want to be part of the IE development cycle, sign an agreement with MS to be a part of it, then you'll get the alphas and beta.Total non-story.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177696</id>
	<title>Who is Many?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258713120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"<b>Many</b> wonder why Microsoft doesn't offer nightly builds of Internet Explorer."</p><p>Whoever "Many" is, they seem to always be interviewed by Ars and FoxNews.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Many wonder why Microsoft does n't offer nightly builds of Internet Explorer .
" Whoever " Many " is , they seem to always be interviewed by Ars and FoxNews .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Many wonder why Microsoft doesn't offer nightly builds of Internet Explorer.
"Whoever "Many" is, they seem to always be interviewed by Ars and FoxNews.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30180880</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>cbhacking</author>
	<datestamp>1258728240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As somebody who has frequently participated in beta tests of lots of software, including Microsoft's, this is spot-on. Sure, their infrequent betas get some good feedback and some good bug reports, but they also get absolutely drowned in a deluge of people on the discussion boards (newsgroups, actually) who complain about:<br>A) Nothing particular at all, they just signed on to complain.<br>B) Stuff that's completely unrelated to the beta (such as a complaint about IE6 on the IE8 beta discussion)<br>C) Stuff that's completely unrelated to the product (complaints about Excel on the IE8 board)<br><b>D) "How dare Microsoft release [a beta of] this product with such-and-such [known, sometimes in release notes] bug!"<br>E) "WTF I installed the latest version of X, and now I can't access my Y, so I'm switching to competitor Z and never buying anything Microsoft again!"</b><br>F) Complaints about Beta 1 bugs during Beta 2 or RC test phases.<br><b> <i>G) Complaints from people who installed the software on a production machine, and expect Microsoft to provide support for it.</i> </b></p><p>These are the types of morons that Microsoft has to deal with. I've seen some of this type of behavior in other betas, to be sure, but some of the problems, especially D, E, and G, are most common on the MS betas. People just seem to expect that any code from MS will be production-ready and expects the company to stand behind their software as though it were a released product.</p><p>Microsoft would be *insane* to release nightly builds to a group like that. A closed beta nightly program, maybe (participants culled from those who are actually useful and productive on the public beta) but certainly not open. Especially considering point F above; people already can't always keep up with the pace of the infrequent releases, and asking them to identify the build number they're using would be an exercise in futility for far too many.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As somebody who has frequently participated in beta tests of lots of software , including Microsoft 's , this is spot-on .
Sure , their infrequent betas get some good feedback and some good bug reports , but they also get absolutely drowned in a deluge of people on the discussion boards ( newsgroups , actually ) who complain about : A ) Nothing particular at all , they just signed on to complain.B ) Stuff that 's completely unrelated to the beta ( such as a complaint about IE6 on the IE8 beta discussion ) C ) Stuff that 's completely unrelated to the product ( complaints about Excel on the IE8 board ) D ) " How dare Microsoft release [ a beta of ] this product with such-and-such [ known , sometimes in release notes ] bug !
" E ) " WTF I installed the latest version of X , and now I ca n't access my Y , so I 'm switching to competitor Z and never buying anything Microsoft again !
" F ) Complaints about Beta 1 bugs during Beta 2 or RC test phases .
G ) Complaints from people who installed the software on a production machine , and expect Microsoft to provide support for it .
These are the types of morons that Microsoft has to deal with .
I 've seen some of this type of behavior in other betas , to be sure , but some of the problems , especially D , E , and G , are most common on the MS betas .
People just seem to expect that any code from MS will be production-ready and expects the company to stand behind their software as though it were a released product.Microsoft would be * insane * to release nightly builds to a group like that .
A closed beta nightly program , maybe ( participants culled from those who are actually useful and productive on the public beta ) but certainly not open .
Especially considering point F above ; people already ca n't always keep up with the pace of the infrequent releases , and asking them to identify the build number they 're using would be an exercise in futility for far too many .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As somebody who has frequently participated in beta tests of lots of software, including Microsoft's, this is spot-on.
Sure, their infrequent betas get some good feedback and some good bug reports, but they also get absolutely drowned in a deluge of people on the discussion boards (newsgroups, actually) who complain about:A) Nothing particular at all, they just signed on to complain.B) Stuff that's completely unrelated to the beta (such as a complaint about IE6 on the IE8 beta discussion)C) Stuff that's completely unrelated to the product (complaints about Excel on the IE8 board)D) "How dare Microsoft release [a beta of] this product with such-and-such [known, sometimes in release notes] bug!
"E) "WTF I installed the latest version of X, and now I can't access my Y, so I'm switching to competitor Z and never buying anything Microsoft again!
"F) Complaints about Beta 1 bugs during Beta 2 or RC test phases.
G) Complaints from people who installed the software on a production machine, and expect Microsoft to provide support for it.
These are the types of morons that Microsoft has to deal with.
I've seen some of this type of behavior in other betas, to be sure, but some of the problems, especially D, E, and G, are most common on the MS betas.
People just seem to expect that any code from MS will be production-ready and expects the company to stand behind their software as though it were a released product.Microsoft would be *insane* to release nightly builds to a group like that.
A closed beta nightly program, maybe (participants culled from those who are actually useful and productive on the public beta) but certainly not open.
Especially considering point F above; people already can't always keep up with the pace of the infrequent releases, and asking them to identify the build number they're using would be an exercise in futility for far too many.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30185338</id>
	<title>The Evil is baked right in!</title>
	<author>wildstoo</author>
	<datestamp>1258825620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just assumed this was just an extension of Otto von Bismarck's famous quote: "Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just assumed this was just an extension of Otto von Bismarck 's famous quote : " Laws are like sausages .
It 's better not to see them being made .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just assumed this was just an extension of Otto von Bismarck's famous quote: "Laws are like sausages.
It's better not to see them being made.
"
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30179466</id>
	<title>joelonsoftware would disapprove</title>
	<author>turing\_m</author>
	<datestamp>1258720020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I refer to this <a href="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000023.html" title="joelonsoftware.com">article</a> [joelonsoftware.com].
<br> <br>
I would assume that the Microsoft Excel team did it this way as well, since Joel mentions it in his article. But they also wrote their own <a href="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000007.html" title="joelonsoftware.com">compiler</a> [joelonsoftware.com]  because everyone else's was crap, and still managed to ship on time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I refer to this article [ joelonsoftware.com ] .
I would assume that the Microsoft Excel team did it this way as well , since Joel mentions it in his article .
But they also wrote their own compiler [ joelonsoftware.com ] because everyone else 's was crap , and still managed to ship on time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I refer to this article [joelonsoftware.com].
I would assume that the Microsoft Excel team did it this way as well, since Joel mentions it in his article.
But they also wrote their own compiler [joelonsoftware.com]  because everyone else's was crap, and still managed to ship on time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177792</id>
	<title>so Microsoft doesn't publish nightly builds of IE</title>
	<author>mmell</author>
	<datestamp>1258713480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Uh, just to ask - why does anybody think there <i>are</i> nightly builds of Insecure Exploder?<p>
Firefox, Opera, Safari - sure, these guys are in active development, frequently introducing new or improved functionality to their products.  Ditto for most <i>FOSS</i> products.</p><p>
MicroSoft, OTOH, uses a proprietary closed-source model of software as the basis for their business practices.  Within that model, development on <i>any</i> product takes place when there's a fiscal incentive to do so; otherwise, existing (revenue-generating) products are left alone to do what they do best - generate revenue.</p><p>
Is there a good business-case reason for MicroSoft to invest in continuous, nightly development of a product which is not sold directly but rather included in the purchase of another product (MS-Windows)?  Is Insecure Exploder so vital a part of their OS that it will represent a deal-breaker for the huge number of enterprises which have implemented and continue to implement MicroSoft technologies?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uh , just to ask - why does anybody think there are nightly builds of Insecure Exploder ?
Firefox , Opera , Safari - sure , these guys are in active development , frequently introducing new or improved functionality to their products .
Ditto for most FOSS products .
MicroSoft , OTOH , uses a proprietary closed-source model of software as the basis for their business practices .
Within that model , development on any product takes place when there 's a fiscal incentive to do so ; otherwise , existing ( revenue-generating ) products are left alone to do what they do best - generate revenue .
Is there a good business-case reason for MicroSoft to invest in continuous , nightly development of a product which is not sold directly but rather included in the purchase of another product ( MS-Windows ) ?
Is Insecure Exploder so vital a part of their OS that it will represent a deal-breaker for the huge number of enterprises which have implemented and continue to implement MicroSoft technologies ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uh, just to ask - why does anybody think there are nightly builds of Insecure Exploder?
Firefox, Opera, Safari - sure, these guys are in active development, frequently introducing new or improved functionality to their products.
Ditto for most FOSS products.
MicroSoft, OTOH, uses a proprietary closed-source model of software as the basis for their business practices.
Within that model, development on any product takes place when there's a fiscal incentive to do so; otherwise, existing (revenue-generating) products are left alone to do what they do best - generate revenue.
Is there a good business-case reason for MicroSoft to invest in continuous, nightly development of a product which is not sold directly but rather included in the purchase of another product (MS-Windows)?
Is Insecure Exploder so vital a part of their OS that it will represent a deal-breaker for the huge number of enterprises which have implemented and continue to implement MicroSoft technologies?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30178336</id>
	<title>It doesn't need a nightly build.</title>
	<author>icepick72</author>
	<datestamp>1258715280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It' not like IE is open for people to download the nightly builds. I'm sure that Microsoft and its employees compile IE many times even though it might not be on the "nightly build" schedule in the most official sense.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It ' not like IE is open for people to download the nightly builds .
I 'm sure that Microsoft and its employees compile IE many times even though it might not be on the " nightly build " schedule in the most official sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It' not like IE is open for people to download the nightly builds.
I'm sure that Microsoft and its employees compile IE many times even though it might not be on the "nightly build" schedule in the most official sense.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177800</id>
	<title>Support issues</title>
	<author>bonch</author>
	<datestamp>1258713480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you really want to be a tech support department dealing with the possibility of your users running unknown versions of Internet Explorer with the potential to be a different version every single day?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you really want to be a tech support department dealing with the possibility of your users running unknown versions of Internet Explorer with the potential to be a different version every single day ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you really want to be a tech support department dealing with the possibility of your users running unknown versions of Internet Explorer with the potential to be a different version every single day?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177646</id>
	<title>Agile??? WTF?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258712880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nightly builds has absolutely nothing to do with that retarded buzzword 'Agile'.</p><p>Nightly builds is just that, nightly builds. Trying to assert that nightly builds are 'agile' is like some cheeseburger and curly fries stained Star Trek tshirt wearing bearded GNU freak trying to claim releasing source code is 'GNU'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nightly builds has absolutely nothing to do with that retarded buzzword 'Agile'.Nightly builds is just that , nightly builds .
Trying to assert that nightly builds are 'agile ' is like some cheeseburger and curly fries stained Star Trek tshirt wearing bearded GNU freak trying to claim releasing source code is 'GNU' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nightly builds has absolutely nothing to do with that retarded buzzword 'Agile'.Nightly builds is just that, nightly builds.
Trying to assert that nightly builds are 'agile' is like some cheeseburger and curly fries stained Star Trek tshirt wearing bearded GNU freak trying to claim releasing source code is 'GNU'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177430</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30178154</id>
	<title>This story is bookmarked</title>
	<author>Osrin</author>
	<datestamp>1258714620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Filed under "weirdest story ever to appear on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/."</p><p>Next week we can discuss the outrage that stems from Microsoft's refusal to offer free back massages on the New York subway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Filed under " weirdest story ever to appear on / .
" Next week we can discuss the outrage that stems from Microsoft 's refusal to offer free back massages on the New York subway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Filed under "weirdest story ever to appear on /.
"Next week we can discuss the outrage that stems from Microsoft's refusal to offer free back massages on the New York subway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177490</id>
	<title>Confused about article, any developers here?</title>
	<author>CannonballHead</author>
	<datestamp>1258712340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Although many developers may not really care much for nightlies or even point releases, it keeps them in the loop, and keeps them interested.</p></div><p>This confused me.  Many developers don't care about them, but they do care about them... is that basically what the Ars article is saying?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Although many developers may not really care much for nightlies or even point releases , it keeps them in the loop , and keeps them interested.This confused me .
Many developers do n't care about them , but they do care about them... is that basically what the Ars article is saying ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Although many developers may not really care much for nightlies or even point releases, it keeps them in the loop, and keeps them interested.This confused me.
Many developers don't care about them, but they do care about them... is that basically what the Ars article is saying?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30178694</id>
	<title>Re:Normal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258716600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Browsers are turning into a different game. Webkit has kicked browser development into overdrive. We're seeing new features coming out at a pace not seen in browser development in maybe 12 years. Firefox already had the nightly builds, but they're following suit and focusing more on features. In the face of the speed of the competition, IE's current development model, even if typical, looks laughably slow in comparison.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Browsers are turning into a different game .
Webkit has kicked browser development into overdrive .
We 're seeing new features coming out at a pace not seen in browser development in maybe 12 years .
Firefox already had the nightly builds , but they 're following suit and focusing more on features .
In the face of the speed of the competition , IE 's current development model , even if typical , looks laughably slow in comparison .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Browsers are turning into a different game.
Webkit has kicked browser development into overdrive.
We're seeing new features coming out at a pace not seen in browser development in maybe 12 years.
Firefox already had the nightly builds, but they're following suit and focusing more on features.
In the face of the speed of the competition, IE's current development model, even if typical, looks laughably slow in comparison.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177520</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30178166</id>
	<title>Re:Of course not....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258714620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Plus, with Firefox if you file a bug they [...] generally fix it right away</p></div><p>No they dont.</p><p>https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show\_bug.cgi?id=90268</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Plus , with Firefox if you file a bug they [ ... ] generally fix it right awayNo they dont.https : //bugzilla.mozilla.org/show \ _bug.cgi ? id = 90268</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Plus, with Firefox if you file a bug they [...] generally fix it right awayNo they dont.https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show\_bug.cgi?id=90268
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30183176</id>
	<title>Re:Of course not....</title>
	<author>daath93</author>
	<datestamp>1258803420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The only thing keeping me using firefox is the add-ons. Firefox's wonky instability and constant updating has me feeling that I can't rely on it every time i need my porn fix.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The only thing keeping me using firefox is the add-ons .
Firefox 's wonky instability and constant updating has me feeling that I ca n't rely on it every time i need my porn fix .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only thing keeping me using firefox is the add-ons.
Firefox's wonky instability and constant updating has me feeling that I can't rely on it every time i need my porn fix.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30182244</id>
	<title>Re:Normal</title>
	<author>mahadiga</author>
	<datestamp>1258743000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think nightly builds are possible only if you have an upfront and perfect design.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think nightly builds are possible only if you have an upfront and perfect design .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think nightly builds are possible only if you have an upfront and perfect design.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177520</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177660</id>
	<title>Why the hell should they?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258712940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A long release schedule gives Microsoft time to squash bugs and make a single presentable product that will have a better reputation than your average nightly build. It gives developers a stable standard to work with without worrying that today's version will have different quirks than yesterday's version. Finally, what would nightly releases gain Microsoft or developers that the standard alpha/beta/release schedule does not?</p><p>This whole article needs to be modded troll.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A long release schedule gives Microsoft time to squash bugs and make a single presentable product that will have a better reputation than your average nightly build .
It gives developers a stable standard to work with without worrying that today 's version will have different quirks than yesterday 's version .
Finally , what would nightly releases gain Microsoft or developers that the standard alpha/beta/release schedule does not ? This whole article needs to be modded troll .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A long release schedule gives Microsoft time to squash bugs and make a single presentable product that will have a better reputation than your average nightly build.
It gives developers a stable standard to work with without worrying that today's version will have different quirks than yesterday's version.
Finally, what would nightly releases gain Microsoft or developers that the standard alpha/beta/release schedule does not?This whole article needs to be modded troll.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177878</id>
	<title>Re:Who is Many?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258713780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Whoever "Many" is, they seem to <b>always</b> be interviewed by Ars and FoxNews.</p></div><p>You're right, it's always them that are always subjective with their absolutes.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Whoever " Many " is , they seem to always be interviewed by Ars and FoxNews.You 're right , it 's always them that are always subjective with their absolutes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whoever "Many" is, they seem to always be interviewed by Ars and FoxNews.You're right, it's always them that are always subjective with their absolutes.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177678</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258713060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  If it is broke, meh.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it ai n't broke , do n't fix it .
If it is broke , meh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If it is broke, meh.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30178040</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258714200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Obviously different products at Microsoft have different cycles and different build environments, but generally what you end up with is weekly builds at first, then as a product gets closer to beta it will go into daily builds. Now, they typically have many source trees that they need to reverse integrate (RI) occasionally (say monthly or so). So you get things like "winmain" or a lab tree for a group like BitLocker or another group doing networking features. Those groups check in code to their own branch and build and test there. Later, after the testing that goes on in that group, they RI the code into WinMain which has been getting daily builds and test passes all along. When it comes time to branch out a Beta or an RC they branch it and do a few builds of stabilization on it before releasing. So there ARE daily builds (at least at points during the cycle), but making these builds available externally would serve no real purpose.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Obviously different products at Microsoft have different cycles and different build environments , but generally what you end up with is weekly builds at first , then as a product gets closer to beta it will go into daily builds .
Now , they typically have many source trees that they need to reverse integrate ( RI ) occasionally ( say monthly or so ) .
So you get things like " winmain " or a lab tree for a group like BitLocker or another group doing networking features .
Those groups check in code to their own branch and build and test there .
Later , after the testing that goes on in that group , they RI the code into WinMain which has been getting daily builds and test passes all along .
When it comes time to branch out a Beta or an RC they branch it and do a few builds of stabilization on it before releasing .
So there ARE daily builds ( at least at points during the cycle ) , but making these builds available externally would serve no real purpose .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obviously different products at Microsoft have different cycles and different build environments, but generally what you end up with is weekly builds at first, then as a product gets closer to beta it will go into daily builds.
Now, they typically have many source trees that they need to reverse integrate (RI) occasionally (say monthly or so).
So you get things like "winmain" or a lab tree for a group like BitLocker or another group doing networking features.
Those groups check in code to their own branch and build and test there.
Later, after the testing that goes on in that group, they RI the code into WinMain which has been getting daily builds and test passes all along.
When it comes time to branch out a Beta or an RC they branch it and do a few builds of stabilization on it before releasing.
So there ARE daily builds (at least at points during the cycle), but making these builds available externally would serve no real purpose.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177868</id>
	<title>Re:Agile isn't the only legitimate way!</title>
	<author>PmanAce</author>
	<datestamp>1258713720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>ROFL! The only thing you know about agile is that is is a buzzword, that's it.

My company uses agile effectlively, and everyone knows that agile is comprised of iterations (typically 1, 2, 4 weeks or whatever you want). At the end of these iterations, a release is done to the clients (typically management if it is in-house stuff). The iteration is comprised of stories to be completed.

Nightly builds are just automated builds that are done daily or nigthly, hence the name. This has nothing to do with agile, why would it? Makes no sense to show clients code that is incomplete and between iterations...

LOL@YOU.</htmltext>
<tokenext>ROFL !
The only thing you know about agile is that is is a buzzword , that 's it .
My company uses agile effectlively , and everyone knows that agile is comprised of iterations ( typically 1 , 2 , 4 weeks or whatever you want ) .
At the end of these iterations , a release is done to the clients ( typically management if it is in-house stuff ) .
The iteration is comprised of stories to be completed .
Nightly builds are just automated builds that are done daily or nigthly , hence the name .
This has nothing to do with agile , why would it ?
Makes no sense to show clients code that is incomplete and between iterations.. . LOL @ YOU .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ROFL!
The only thing you know about agile is that is is a buzzword, that's it.
My company uses agile effectlively, and everyone knows that agile is comprised of iterations (typically 1, 2, 4 weeks or whatever you want).
At the end of these iterations, a release is done to the clients (typically management if it is in-house stuff).
The iteration is comprised of stories to be completed.
Nightly builds are just automated builds that are done daily or nigthly, hence the name.
This has nothing to do with agile, why would it?
Makes no sense to show clients code that is incomplete and between iterations...

LOL@YOU.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177430</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177718</id>
	<title>Re:Agile isn't the only legitimate way!</title>
	<author>sohp</author>
	<datestamp>1258713180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How's that non-agile, waterfall QA working out for ya?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How 's that non-agile , waterfall QA working out for ya ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How's that non-agile, waterfall QA working out for ya?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177430</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30179902</id>
	<title>Re:Agile isn't the only legitimate way!</title>
	<author>Darinbob</author>
	<datestamp>1258722240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The vast majority of companies with nightly builds to NOT give those nightly builds to customers.  They're for internal testing and to make integration of changes easier to manage.  Nightly builds will almost always have unfinished or untested features; because if everything was complete and tested then they may as well tag it as an official release.<br><br>I sincerely hope that even Agile software houses don't release nightly builds to customers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The vast majority of companies with nightly builds to NOT give those nightly builds to customers .
They 're for internal testing and to make integration of changes easier to manage .
Nightly builds will almost always have unfinished or untested features ; because if everything was complete and tested then they may as well tag it as an official release.I sincerely hope that even Agile software houses do n't release nightly builds to customers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The vast majority of companies with nightly builds to NOT give those nightly builds to customers.
They're for internal testing and to make integration of changes easier to manage.
Nightly builds will almost always have unfinished or untested features; because if everything was complete and tested then they may as well tag it as an official release.I sincerely hope that even Agile software houses don't release nightly builds to customers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177430</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177430</id>
	<title>Agile isn't the only legitimate way!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258712160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What does MS offer nightly builds for??? It's just not how they work. They're a typical monolithic development house that deals only with releases and occasionally lets beta code out. There are benefits to the approach like not trying to shoot a moving target when it comes to bugs etc. People who've grown up with agile seem to think it's the only way to do quality assurance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What does MS offer nightly builds for ? ? ?
It 's just not how they work .
They 're a typical monolithic development house that deals only with releases and occasionally lets beta code out .
There are benefits to the approach like not trying to shoot a moving target when it comes to bugs etc .
People who 've grown up with agile seem to think it 's the only way to do quality assurance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What does MS offer nightly builds for???
It's just not how they work.
They're a typical monolithic development house that deals only with releases and occasionally lets beta code out.
There are benefits to the approach like not trying to shoot a moving target when it comes to bugs etc.
People who've grown up with agile seem to think it's the only way to do quality assurance.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177966</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>Fulcrum of Evil</author>
	<datestamp>1258714020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I&rsquo;ve just had an epiphany.</p></div><p>I hear there's a pill for that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I    ve just had an epiphany.I hear there 's a pill for that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I’ve just had an epiphany.I hear there's a pill for that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177376</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30182304</id>
	<title>Re:Agile isn't the only legitimate way!</title>
	<author>Alpha830RulZ</author>
	<datestamp>1258743840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The vast majority of companies with nightly builds to NOT give those nightly builds to customers.</i></p><p>I know of one, who does so, apparently quite successfully.  I played golf this summer with their director of Q/A.  I'm struggling to remember their name and what they do, but it was some web based SaaS offering with 300-ish employees in downtown Seattle (we were playing golf at Willows Run, which is just down the street from Microsoft Intergalactic in Redmond).  We got to talking agile, and releases, and he said their architecture -assumes- a nightly build and rollout.  He described the purest "write the test first" implementation I have ever heard credibly described, and they were using it straight to production through what sounded like a pretty tightly run promotion to production cycle.</p><p>Interestingly, they had just been purchased by Microsoft.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The vast majority of companies with nightly builds to NOT give those nightly builds to customers.I know of one , who does so , apparently quite successfully .
I played golf this summer with their director of Q/A .
I 'm struggling to remember their name and what they do , but it was some web based SaaS offering with 300-ish employees in downtown Seattle ( we were playing golf at Willows Run , which is just down the street from Microsoft Intergalactic in Redmond ) .
We got to talking agile , and releases , and he said their architecture -assumes- a nightly build and rollout .
He described the purest " write the test first " implementation I have ever heard credibly described , and they were using it straight to production through what sounded like a pretty tightly run promotion to production cycle.Interestingly , they had just been purchased by Microsoft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The vast majority of companies with nightly builds to NOT give those nightly builds to customers.I know of one, who does so, apparently quite successfully.
I played golf this summer with their director of Q/A.
I'm struggling to remember their name and what they do, but it was some web based SaaS offering with 300-ish employees in downtown Seattle (we were playing golf at Willows Run, which is just down the street from Microsoft Intergalactic in Redmond).
We got to talking agile, and releases, and he said their architecture -assumes- a nightly build and rollout.
He described the purest "write the test first" implementation I have ever heard credibly described, and they were using it straight to production through what sounded like a pretty tightly run promotion to production cycle.Interestingly, they had just been purchased by Microsoft.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30179902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30180324</id>
	<title>Re:More Microsoft Bashing</title>
	<author>BillKaos</author>
	<datestamp>1258724400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While I think Microsoft is right with its release cycle, the article is based on the fact the every other browser vendor is releasing snapshots.</p><p>For me, the biggest picture is interaction and strategy, not builds. In Webkit, Gecko and Presto, if you are a web developer, you can interact with the engine developer. They have mailing list, good bucktrackers, and a *good attitude* towards fixing bugs.</p><p>For Microsoft, if you are using Linux for development (a pretty common case I'd guess) you cannot even try. I doubt Windows users do fare any better. By the way, Windows 7 is not bad, but not usable yet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While I think Microsoft is right with its release cycle , the article is based on the fact the every other browser vendor is releasing snapshots.For me , the biggest picture is interaction and strategy , not builds .
In Webkit , Gecko and Presto , if you are a web developer , you can interact with the engine developer .
They have mailing list , good bucktrackers , and a * good attitude * towards fixing bugs.For Microsoft , if you are using Linux for development ( a pretty common case I 'd guess ) you can not even try .
I doubt Windows users do fare any better .
By the way , Windows 7 is not bad , but not usable yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I think Microsoft is right with its release cycle, the article is based on the fact the every other browser vendor is releasing snapshots.For me, the biggest picture is interaction and strategy, not builds.
In Webkit, Gecko and Presto, if you are a web developer, you can interact with the engine developer.
They have mailing list, good bucktrackers, and a *good attitude* towards fixing bugs.For Microsoft, if you are using Linux for development (a pretty common case I'd guess) you cannot even try.
I doubt Windows users do fare any better.
By the way, Windows 7 is not bad, but not usable yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177520</id>
	<title>Normal</title>
	<author>bigstrat2003</author>
	<datestamp>1258712460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>WTF? Most companies don't release nightly builds of their software. Why on earth are we singling out Microsoft, and only one of their products at that? Infrequent releases are the norm, not the exception, and while you may argue that it should change, it's ludicrous to single out one program among thousands for following the standard practice.</htmltext>
<tokenext>WTF ?
Most companies do n't release nightly builds of their software .
Why on earth are we singling out Microsoft , and only one of their products at that ?
Infrequent releases are the norm , not the exception , and while you may argue that it should change , it 's ludicrous to single out one program among thousands for following the standard practice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WTF?
Most companies don't release nightly builds of their software.
Why on earth are we singling out Microsoft, and only one of their products at that?
Infrequent releases are the norm, not the exception, and while you may argue that it should change, it's ludicrous to single out one program among thousands for following the standard practice.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30181348</id>
	<title>WAAAH we wants development browsers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258732140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sure *Microsoft* has nightly builds of IE internally, they have nightly builds of practically everything. Whiny guy writing column just doesn't have access to them.</p><p>Seriously, doesn't the <b>released</b> versions of IE suck hard enough for you?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sure * Microsoft * has nightly builds of IE internally , they have nightly builds of practically everything .
Whiny guy writing column just does n't have access to them.Seriously , does n't the released versions of IE suck hard enough for you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sure *Microsoft* has nightly builds of IE internally, they have nightly builds of practically everything.
Whiny guy writing column just doesn't have access to them.Seriously, doesn't the released versions of IE suck hard enough for you?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30180338</id>
	<title>I thank You for your time</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258724460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">Dim.  Due toq the open platform,</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Dim .
Due toq the open platform , [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dim.
Due toq the open platform, [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177882</id>
	<title>More Microsoft Bashing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258713780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why is the finger always at Microsoft?  I vote we embargo the use of the word Microsoft on Slashdot, say, for a month.  Usually any Microsoft related post is biased and ill-spirited - getting very old.

There are countless software vendors that do not release nightly builds.

As much as I adore Slashdot, all the MS haters on here often make me feel as if I'm associating myself with a 'new low' of computer users (sometimes).  Kinda like finding yourself in the company of a bunch of racists.  It's very fashionable on \. to hate Microsoft.  Don't like their stuff?...simply use something else and STFU.

I do agree with the article's opinion of saying the update process Microsoft uses is broken - I think Microsoft can do better.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is the finger always at Microsoft ?
I vote we embargo the use of the word Microsoft on Slashdot , say , for a month .
Usually any Microsoft related post is biased and ill-spirited - getting very old .
There are countless software vendors that do not release nightly builds .
As much as I adore Slashdot , all the MS haters on here often make me feel as if I 'm associating myself with a 'new low ' of computer users ( sometimes ) .
Kinda like finding yourself in the company of a bunch of racists .
It 's very fashionable on \ .
to hate Microsoft .
Do n't like their stuff ? ...simply use something else and STFU .
I do agree with the article 's opinion of saying the update process Microsoft uses is broken - I think Microsoft can do better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is the finger always at Microsoft?
I vote we embargo the use of the word Microsoft on Slashdot, say, for a month.
Usually any Microsoft related post is biased and ill-spirited - getting very old.
There are countless software vendors that do not release nightly builds.
As much as I adore Slashdot, all the MS haters on here often make me feel as if I'm associating myself with a 'new low' of computer users (sometimes).
Kinda like finding yourself in the company of a bunch of racists.
It's very fashionable on \.
to hate Microsoft.
Don't like their stuff?...simply use something else and STFU.
I do agree with the article's opinion of saying the update process Microsoft uses is broken - I think Microsoft can do better.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30180402</id>
	<title>Re:Maybe it takes more than a day to build it?</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1258724940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Given how tied into the operating system that MSIE is, I suppose that a build of MSIE would require a significant build of Windows as well.</p></div><p>I find it highly unlikely. In the end, IE lives in its own library, and any OS services that may need it call through that via stabilized COM interfaces. There's no reason why Windows can't be build against precompiled IE binaries and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.idl files describing the interface, and similarly no reason why IE can't be built against the most up-to-date Windows SDK headers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Given how tied into the operating system that MSIE is , I suppose that a build of MSIE would require a significant build of Windows as well.I find it highly unlikely .
In the end , IE lives in its own library , and any OS services that may need it call through that via stabilized COM interfaces .
There 's no reason why Windows ca n't be build against precompiled IE binaries and .idl files describing the interface , and similarly no reason why IE ca n't be built against the most up-to-date Windows SDK headers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given how tied into the operating system that MSIE is, I suppose that a build of MSIE would require a significant build of Windows as well.I find it highly unlikely.
In the end, IE lives in its own library, and any OS services that may need it call through that via stabilized COM interfaces.
There's no reason why Windows can't be build against precompiled IE binaries and .idl files describing the interface, and similarly no reason why IE can't be built against the most up-to-date Windows SDK headers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177910</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177762</id>
	<title>In other news</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258713360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sky still blue, people wonder when it will turn orange with florescent stripes</p><p>In later news: dogs still sniff butts, why now after nothing happened.</p><p>This just in, kdawson still posting unimpressive useless articles</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sky still blue , people wonder when it will turn orange with florescent stripesIn later news : dogs still sniff butts , why now after nothing happened.This just in , kdawson still posting unimpressive useless articles</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sky still blue, people wonder when it will turn orange with florescent stripesIn later news: dogs still sniff butts, why now after nothing happened.This just in, kdawson still posting unimpressive useless articles</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30181732</id>
	<title>Re:Obvious...</title>
	<author>theguyfromsaturn</author>
	<datestamp>1258736280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not to mention they don't actually have a mechanism to submit bug reports.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to mention they do n't actually have a mechanism to submit bug reports .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to mention they don't actually have a mechanism to submit bug reports.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30179994</id>
	<title>Re:Agile isn't the only legitimate way!</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1258722720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>How's that non-agile, waterfall QA working out for ya?</i></p><p>How's that constantly changing never quite know what you're building agile shitfight working for you?</p><p>See it ain't hard to be immature. It ain't clever either. Some incredible projects have been built with both methodologies and there have been some abysmal failures with both too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How 's that non-agile , waterfall QA working out for ya ? How 's that constantly changing never quite know what you 're building agile shitfight working for you ? See it ai n't hard to be immature .
It ai n't clever either .
Some incredible projects have been built with both methodologies and there have been some abysmal failures with both too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How's that non-agile, waterfall QA working out for ya?How's that constantly changing never quite know what you're building agile shitfight working for you?See it ain't hard to be immature.
It ain't clever either.
Some incredible projects have been built with both methodologies and there have been some abysmal failures with both too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177718</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30184020</id>
	<title>Re:More Microsoft Bashing</title>
	<author>bguiz</author>
	<datestamp>1258817220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's very fashionable on \. to hate Microsoft.</p></div><p>You sir, irk me with your choice of slash direction in &apos;<b>\.</b>&apos;!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's very fashionable on \ .
to hate Microsoft.You sir , irk me with your choice of slash direction in &amp;apos ; \ .&amp;apos ; !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's very fashionable on \.
to hate Microsoft.You sir, irk me with your choice of slash direction in &amp;apos;\.&amp;apos;!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177882</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177376</id>
	<title>Obvious...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258712040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Many wonder why Microsoft doesn't offer nightly builds of Internet Explorer</p></div><p>Um, because they never have and never will?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Many wonder why Microsoft does n't offer nightly builds of Internet ExplorerUm , because they never have and never will ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many wonder why Microsoft doesn't offer nightly builds of Internet ExplorerUm, because they never have and never will?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_20_1829216.30177442</id>
	<title>Security Updates?</title>
	<author>DigiShaman</author>
	<datestamp>1258712220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Umm, isn't that what Update Tuesdays are for? Constantly patching IE along with other OS updates?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Umm , is n't that what Update Tuesdays are for ?
Constantly patching IE along with other OS updates ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Umm, isn't that what Update Tuesdays are for?
Constantly patching IE along with other OS updates?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_20_1829216_21</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_20_1829216_25</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_20_1829216_17</id>
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