<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_17_1810256</id>
	<title>Fedora 12 Released</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1258482600000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>AdamWill writes <i>"The Fedora Project is pleased to announce the release of Fedora 12 today. With all the latest open source software and major improvements to graphics support, networking, virtualization and more, Fedora 12 is one of the most exciting releases so far. You can <a href="http://www.fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora">download it here</a>. There's a <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora\_12\_one\_page\_release\_notes">one-page guide to the new release</a> for those in a hurry. The full <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora\_12\_Announcement">release announcement</a> has details on the major features, and the <a href="http://docs.fedoraproject.org/">release notes</a> contain comprehensive information on changes in this new release. Known issues are documented on the <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common\_F12\_bugs">common bugs page</a>."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>AdamWill writes " The Fedora Project is pleased to announce the release of Fedora 12 today .
With all the latest open source software and major improvements to graphics support , networking , virtualization and more , Fedora 12 is one of the most exciting releases so far .
You can download it here .
There 's a one-page guide to the new release for those in a hurry .
The full release announcement has details on the major features , and the release notes contain comprehensive information on changes in this new release .
Known issues are documented on the common bugs page .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AdamWill writes "The Fedora Project is pleased to announce the release of Fedora 12 today.
With all the latest open source software and major improvements to graphics support, networking, virtualization and more, Fedora 12 is one of the most exciting releases so far.
You can download it here.
There's a one-page guide to the new release for those in a hurry.
The full release announcement has details on the major features, and the release notes contain comprehensive information on changes in this new release.
Known issues are documented on the common bugs page.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132218</id>
	<title>it didn't detect my usb mouse so i can't install</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258486860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it.</p><p>i found two more mouses: a ps2 and a usb and plugged them all in.</p><p>3 mice and still can't install.</p><p>Thanks for making unix/linux (historically terminal based) another Windows desktop.</p><p>I boot Windows and everything is fine with the first mouse.  Let me see if Windows can use all 3 mice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it.i found two more mouses : a ps2 and a usb and plugged them all in.3 mice and still ca n't install.Thanks for making unix/linux ( historically terminal based ) another Windows desktop.I boot Windows and everything is fine with the first mouse .
Let me see if Windows can use all 3 mice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it.i found two more mouses: a ps2 and a usb and plugged them all in.3 mice and still can't install.Thanks for making unix/linux (historically terminal based) another Windows desktop.I boot Windows and everything is fine with the first mouse.
Let me see if Windows can use all 3 mice.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133492</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora Server Hammered (of course)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258491120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Use bittorrent for anything that everyone else and their grandmother is currently downloading.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Use bittorrent for anything that everyone else and their grandmother is currently downloading .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Use bittorrent for anything that everyone else and their grandmother is currently downloading.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132540</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30136818</id>
	<title>I'm disappointed they chose Empathy</title>
	<author>Omnifarious</author>
	<datestamp>1258459800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It has no support for <a href="http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/" title="cypherpunks.ca">OTR</a> [cypherpunks.ca], which is the most widely supported multi-protocol encryption standard.  They're working on supporting it now, but it isn't there yet, and I think the major distributions should've waited to make it the default IM client until OTR support was there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It has no support for OTR [ cypherpunks.ca ] , which is the most widely supported multi-protocol encryption standard .
They 're working on supporting it now , but it is n't there yet , and I think the major distributions should 've waited to make it the default IM client until OTR support was there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It has no support for OTR [cypherpunks.ca], which is the most widely supported multi-protocol encryption standard.
They're working on supporting it now, but it isn't there yet, and I think the major distributions should've waited to make it the default IM client until OTR support was there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132494</id>
	<title>Still no IA64 support...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258487760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>At least Fedora hasn't suddenly dropped PowerPC with no announcement like OpenSUSE did, but sadly, there's still no new builds of the SPARC and Itanium versions of Fedora. I wonder if they're intentionally trying to drive people to RHEL on these platforms.</htmltext>
<tokenext>At least Fedora has n't suddenly dropped PowerPC with no announcement like OpenSUSE did , but sadly , there 's still no new builds of the SPARC and Itanium versions of Fedora .
I wonder if they 're intentionally trying to drive people to RHEL on these platforms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At least Fedora hasn't suddenly dropped PowerPC with no announcement like OpenSUSE did, but sadly, there's still no new builds of the SPARC and Itanium versions of Fedora.
I wonder if they're intentionally trying to drive people to RHEL on these platforms.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30135768</id>
	<title>Re:heres hoping</title>
	<author>kramulous</author>
	<datestamp>1258455360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was having a bitch of a time too.  For weeks it didn't work.  As a last straw I rebooted.  Everything was fine<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was having a bitch of a time too .
For weeks it did n't work .
As a last straw I rebooted .
Everything was fine : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was having a bitch of a time too.
For weeks it didn't work.
As a last straw I rebooted.
Everything was fine :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132628</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30145012</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>talkingtent</author>
	<datestamp>1257096660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Slackware user here for years and years, then switched to Fedora Core 1.  Got tired of yum and went back to Slackware.  Looks like maybe I should try it out again.  At least it's not Debian (sorry Debian fanboys)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Slackware user here for years and years , then switched to Fedora Core 1 .
Got tired of yum and went back to Slackware .
Looks like maybe I should try it out again .
At least it 's not Debian ( sorry Debian fanboys )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Slackware user here for years and years, then switched to Fedora Core 1.
Got tired of yum and went back to Slackware.
Looks like maybe I should try it out again.
At least it's not Debian (sorry Debian fanboys)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132274</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258487040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why wouldn't people still use Fedora?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would n't people still use Fedora ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why wouldn't people still use Fedora?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132044</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133212</id>
	<title>Re:Dead platforms....</title>
	<author>tolan-b</author>
	<datestamp>1258490040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hacked Xbox 360s run PPC Linux<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hacked Xbox 360s run PPC Linux : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hacked Xbox 360s run PPC Linux :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132572</id>
	<title>Bug Report</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258488000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Description of problem:<br>Using Fedora feels like having loads of useless junk thrust down your throat.</p><p>Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):<br>Fedora 12 (Constantine)</p><p>How reproducible:<br>Getting worse with each release.</p><p>Steps to Reproduce:<br>1. Do something that worked fine in the last release.<br>2.<br>3.</p><p>Actual results:<br>Discover it's been replaced with some half-baked half-assed piece of crap<br>that probably ends in "Kit", which will probably be thrown away before it<br>even gets finished, and replaced with something else. Someone just had<br>to over-engineer a solution to some supposed problem (that nobody ever cared<br>about before), so that it can be solved in some way that requires six more<br>background daemons.</p><p>Expected results:<br>Some existing components get improved for once, rather than spending all the<br>development effort on re-inventing square wheels and designing even more<br>ghastly wallpaper.</p><p>Additional info:<br>I would particularly like to thank the DeviceKit-disks people for replacing<br>hal-disable-polling with "devkit-disks --inhibit-all-polling" , which has to be<br>left running. Perhaps they would appreciate being sent an email every 10<br>seconds to keep them informed about the contents of my DVD drive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Description of problem : Using Fedora feels like having loads of useless junk thrust down your throat.Version-Release number of selected component ( if applicable ) : Fedora 12 ( Constantine ) How reproducible : Getting worse with each release.Steps to Reproduce : 1 .
Do something that worked fine in the last release.2.3.Actual results : Discover it 's been replaced with some half-baked half-assed piece of crapthat probably ends in " Kit " , which will probably be thrown away before iteven gets finished , and replaced with something else .
Someone just hadto over-engineer a solution to some supposed problem ( that nobody ever caredabout before ) , so that it can be solved in some way that requires six morebackground daemons.Expected results : Some existing components get improved for once , rather than spending all thedevelopment effort on re-inventing square wheels and designing even moreghastly wallpaper.Additional info : I would particularly like to thank the DeviceKit-disks people for replacinghal-disable-polling with " devkit-disks --inhibit-all-polling " , which has to beleft running .
Perhaps they would appreciate being sent an email every 10seconds to keep them informed about the contents of my DVD drive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Description of problem:Using Fedora feels like having loads of useless junk thrust down your throat.Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):Fedora 12 (Constantine)How reproducible:Getting worse with each release.Steps to Reproduce:1.
Do something that worked fine in the last release.2.3.Actual results:Discover it's been replaced with some half-baked half-assed piece of crapthat probably ends in "Kit", which will probably be thrown away before iteven gets finished, and replaced with something else.
Someone just hadto over-engineer a solution to some supposed problem (that nobody ever caredabout before), so that it can be solved in some way that requires six morebackground daemons.Expected results:Some existing components get improved for once, rather than spending all thedevelopment effort on re-inventing square wheels and designing even moreghastly wallpaper.Additional info:I would particularly like to thank the DeviceKit-disks people for replacinghal-disable-polling with "devkit-disks --inhibit-all-polling" , which has to beleft running.
Perhaps they would appreciate being sent an email every 10seconds to keep them informed about the contents of my DVD drive.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30142036</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>antime</author>
	<datestamp>1257081240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Thumbs up to this. I wish the whole distro release system would go away. Unless there is a major change coming that will break everything (libc5 -&gt; glibc6-type changes) I should not have to reinstall my system just because I want a new version of some application.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thumbs up to this .
I wish the whole distro release system would go away .
Unless there is a major change coming that will break everything ( libc5 - &gt; glibc6-type changes ) I should not have to reinstall my system just because I want a new version of some application .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thumbs up to this.
I wish the whole distro release system would go away.
Unless there is a major change coming that will break everything (libc5 -&gt; glibc6-type changes) I should not have to reinstall my system just because I want a new version of some application.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133020</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132806</id>
	<title>Speed access to Fedora Torrents</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258488840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Help others get Fedora.  Seed your torrent for at least a few days.  It'll be about a week to a week and a half before demands slows down.  If you're concerned about bandwidth use your bandwidth scheduler.
</p><p>
64 bit x86:
</p><ul>
<li> <a href="http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-12-x86\_64-Live-KDE.torrent" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">Fedora 12 x86\_64 Live KDE</a> [fedoraproject.org] </li><li> <a href="http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-12-x86\_64-CDs.torrent" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">Fedora 12 x86\_64 CDs</a> [fedoraproject.org] </li><li> <a href="http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-12-x86\_64-Live.torrent" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">Fedora 12 x86\_64 Live</a> [fedoraproject.org] </li><li> <a href="http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-12-x86\_64-DVD.torrent" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">Fedora 12 x86\_64 DVD</a> [fedoraproject.org] </li></ul><p>
Others:
</p><ul>

<li> <a href="http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-12-i386-CDs.torrent" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">Fedora 12 i386 CDs</a> [fedoraproject.org] </li><li> <a href="http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-12-i386-DVD.torrent" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">Fedora 12 i386 DVD</a> [fedoraproject.org] </li><li> <a href="http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-12-i686-Live-KDE.torrent" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">Fedora 12 i686 Live KDE</a> [fedoraproject.org] </li><li> <a href="http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-12-i686-Live.torrent" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">Fedora 12 i686 Live</a> [fedoraproject.org] </li><li> <a href="http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-12-ppc-CDs.torrent" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">Fedora 12 ppc CDs</a> [fedoraproject.org] </li><li> <a href="http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-12-ppc-DVD.torrent" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">Fedora 12 ppc DVD</a> [fedoraproject.org] </li></ul><p>
Sources:
<a href="http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-12-source-CDs.torrent" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">Fedora 12 source CDs</a> [fedoraproject.org]
<br>
<a href="http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-12-source-DVD.torrent" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">Fedora 12 source DVD</a> [fedoraproject.org]

</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Help others get Fedora .
Seed your torrent for at least a few days .
It 'll be about a week to a week and a half before demands slows down .
If you 're concerned about bandwidth use your bandwidth scheduler .
64 bit x86 : Fedora 12 x86 \ _64 Live KDE [ fedoraproject.org ] Fedora 12 x86 \ _64 CDs [ fedoraproject.org ] Fedora 12 x86 \ _64 Live [ fedoraproject.org ] Fedora 12 x86 \ _64 DVD [ fedoraproject.org ] Others : Fedora 12 i386 CDs [ fedoraproject.org ] Fedora 12 i386 DVD [ fedoraproject.org ] Fedora 12 i686 Live KDE [ fedoraproject.org ] Fedora 12 i686 Live [ fedoraproject.org ] Fedora 12 ppc CDs [ fedoraproject.org ] Fedora 12 ppc DVD [ fedoraproject.org ] Sources : Fedora 12 source CDs [ fedoraproject.org ] Fedora 12 source DVD [ fedoraproject.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Help others get Fedora.
Seed your torrent for at least a few days.
It'll be about a week to a week and a half before demands slows down.
If you're concerned about bandwidth use your bandwidth scheduler.
64 bit x86:

 Fedora 12 x86\_64 Live KDE [fedoraproject.org]  Fedora 12 x86\_64 CDs [fedoraproject.org]  Fedora 12 x86\_64 Live [fedoraproject.org]  Fedora 12 x86\_64 DVD [fedoraproject.org] 
Others:


 Fedora 12 i386 CDs [fedoraproject.org]  Fedora 12 i386 DVD [fedoraproject.org]  Fedora 12 i686 Live KDE [fedoraproject.org]  Fedora 12 i686 Live [fedoraproject.org]  Fedora 12 ppc CDs [fedoraproject.org]  Fedora 12 ppc DVD [fedoraproject.org] 
Sources:
Fedora 12 source CDs [fedoraproject.org]

Fedora 12 source DVD [fedoraproject.org]

</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30134906</id>
	<title>Re:Dead platforms....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258452600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not to mention IBM's Power4, Power5, Power6, and soon Power7 platforms.<br>These are great Linux platforms in the corporate scene, and RHEL &amp; SLES are the top distros.</p><p>Should be interesting to see what Novell will do here, after dropping ppc support in openSUSE.<br>Do they really want to give the entire market to RH?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to mention IBM 's Power4 , Power5 , Power6 , and soon Power7 platforms.These are great Linux platforms in the corporate scene , and RHEL &amp; SLES are the top distros.Should be interesting to see what Novell will do here , after dropping ppc support in openSUSE.Do they really want to give the entire market to RH ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to mention IBM's Power4, Power5, Power6, and soon Power7 platforms.These are great Linux platforms in the corporate scene, and RHEL &amp; SLES are the top distros.Should be interesting to see what Novell will do here, after dropping ppc support in openSUSE.Do they really want to give the entire market to RH?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30136512</id>
	<title>Upgrade from f11 left system totally broken</title>
	<author>dee.cz</author>
	<datestamp>1258458480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <b>Fedora</b> was constantly broken, sound broken since f11, other misc breakages once in 1-3 months.
</p><p> <b>Vista</b> is very stable, one update caused infinite reboot, also found some <a href="http://www.opengl.org/discussion\_boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&amp;Number=248466" title="opengl.org" rel="nofollow">rendering bugs</a> [opengl.org].
</p><p> <b>Ubuntu</b> is the best, the worst problem in years was it forgot static IP during upgrade
</p><p> <b>Snow Leopard</b> seems poorly tested, bundled app from Apple crashes, some settings don't work (still very short experience)
<br> <br>
It's just my experience, using all systems for the same tasks, development of <a href="http://dee.cz/lightsmark" title="dee.cz" rel="nofollow">Lightsmark</a> [dee.cz].
The message is clear: ditch Fedora, get Ubuntu.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fedora was constantly broken , sound broken since f11 , other misc breakages once in 1-3 months .
Vista is very stable , one update caused infinite reboot , also found some rendering bugs [ opengl.org ] .
Ubuntu is the best , the worst problem in years was it forgot static IP during upgrade Snow Leopard seems poorly tested , bundled app from Apple crashes , some settings do n't work ( still very short experience ) It 's just my experience , using all systems for the same tasks , development of Lightsmark [ dee.cz ] .
The message is clear : ditch Fedora , get Ubuntu .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Fedora was constantly broken, sound broken since f11, other misc breakages once in 1-3 months.
Vista is very stable, one update caused infinite reboot, also found some rendering bugs [opengl.org].
Ubuntu is the best, the worst problem in years was it forgot static IP during upgrade
 Snow Leopard seems poorly tested, bundled app from Apple crashes, some settings don't work (still very short experience)
 
It's just my experience, using all systems for the same tasks, development of Lightsmark [dee.cz].
The message is clear: ditch Fedora, get Ubuntu.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30139734</id>
	<title>1GHz Pentium 3 with 512MB of RAM</title>
	<author>guacamole</author>
	<datestamp>1258479720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Will it run Fedora 12 or should I switch to something lighter?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Will it run Fedora 12 or should I switch to something lighter ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Will it run Fedora 12 or should I switch to something lighter?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30135210</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>LordLimecat</author>
	<datestamp>1258453560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wouldnt fedora be precisely the WRONG distro to use as a server on a network, given that it is a bleeding edge distro?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wouldnt fedora be precisely the WRONG distro to use as a server on a network , given that it is a bleeding edge distro ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wouldnt fedora be precisely the WRONG distro to use as a server on a network, given that it is a bleeding edge distro?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132690</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133896</id>
	<title>Re:Huh, they're using the Nouveau driver...</title>
	<author>reub2000</author>
	<datestamp>1258449300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The livecd is the very first operating system to correctly configure my dual-head setup out of the box. Good work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The livecd is the very first operating system to correctly configure my dual-head setup out of the box .
Good work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The livecd is the very first operating system to correctly configure my dual-head setup out of the box.
Good work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30140106</id>
	<title>Re:Ubuntu influence on marketing materials</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1258482720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>You can really see the Ubuntu influence on the Fedora marketing materials: smiling faces, happy about "software that helps you work, play, organize, and socialize." Wait, did Fedora even have marketing materials before Ubuntu?</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>Fedora has a very active marketing team now.  Check the fedora-marketing list.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can really see the Ubuntu influence on the Fedora marketing materials : smiling faces , happy about " software that helps you work , play , organize , and socialize .
" Wait , did Fedora even have marketing materials before Ubuntu ?
Fedora has a very active marketing team now .
Check the fedora-marketing list .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> You can really see the Ubuntu influence on the Fedora marketing materials: smiling faces, happy about "software that helps you work, play, organize, and socialize.
" Wait, did Fedora even have marketing materials before Ubuntu?
Fedora has a very active marketing team now.
Check the fedora-marketing list.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132828</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30138822</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>Junta</author>
	<datestamp>1258472700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First off, a disclaimer, as far as Fedora is concerned, they might as well keep doing what they are doing, or else there wouldn't me much difference between them and Ubuntu, as they have very similar release schedules and such.  If someone feels like you, they have Fedora, if they feel like me, Ubuntu.  Satisfying both of us with the same project would not be feasible.  I simply want to be clear on what each distro does differently so that people are educated.  Too often I see people play nice and be unwilling to call out the downsides of distro choices, making selecting one a more daunting task.  Fedora's choices, in my opinion, cater to a certain class of enthusiasts but precludes suitability for 'everyone'.</p><p>That said, I would suggest discipline in development and forgoing features completely.  I see backporting obvious bugfixes, but not features.  In this case, if a feature will be in 2.6.32, either go with 2.6.31 and ignore it, or wait for 2.6.32 (i.e. the memory page dedupe feature).  Backporting features and creating a relative frankenstein that is '2.6.31' in name only doesn't make sense to me.  They already show they'd be willing to go to a new kernel post-release, so its not like they are even saying they have to wait 6 months.  This isn't so terrible in Fedora, as the releases are at least in the near future and not a huge chasm to bridge.  For RHEL, the monster they have created being called '2.6.18' holds no meaning.  They've backported enough to not look like 2.6.18 did much, and yet there is so much not backported so it's not like any recent kernel either.  It's an amalgamation of features/function changes that I don't like seeing in an enterprise 'service pack' series, exacerbated by that particular mix being validated only in RHEL and not the larger community.</p><p>You mention drivers, but new driver modules (frequently provided for by the hardware vendor) is a tad different from backporting major features (i.e. I think the choice of KVM in RHEL 5.4 would have been better served by waiting for RHEL6, advancing the schedule if they feel it is important enough).  LSI probably already provided a driver developed against 2.6.18 and RHEL can fold that in, but don't fold in a major SCSI subsystem change while you are at it just because you think it safe.  If I download a third party driver for a NIC that RHEL doesn't support, I don't want that compile to be impossible by going from RHEL5.2 to RHEL5.3, which often occurs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First off , a disclaimer , as far as Fedora is concerned , they might as well keep doing what they are doing , or else there would n't me much difference between them and Ubuntu , as they have very similar release schedules and such .
If someone feels like you , they have Fedora , if they feel like me , Ubuntu .
Satisfying both of us with the same project would not be feasible .
I simply want to be clear on what each distro does differently so that people are educated .
Too often I see people play nice and be unwilling to call out the downsides of distro choices , making selecting one a more daunting task .
Fedora 's choices , in my opinion , cater to a certain class of enthusiasts but precludes suitability for 'everyone'.That said , I would suggest discipline in development and forgoing features completely .
I see backporting obvious bugfixes , but not features .
In this case , if a feature will be in 2.6.32 , either go with 2.6.31 and ignore it , or wait for 2.6.32 ( i.e .
the memory page dedupe feature ) .
Backporting features and creating a relative frankenstein that is '2.6.31 ' in name only does n't make sense to me .
They already show they 'd be willing to go to a new kernel post-release , so its not like they are even saying they have to wait 6 months .
This is n't so terrible in Fedora , as the releases are at least in the near future and not a huge chasm to bridge .
For RHEL , the monster they have created being called '2.6.18 ' holds no meaning .
They 've backported enough to not look like 2.6.18 did much , and yet there is so much not backported so it 's not like any recent kernel either .
It 's an amalgamation of features/function changes that I do n't like seeing in an enterprise 'service pack ' series , exacerbated by that particular mix being validated only in RHEL and not the larger community.You mention drivers , but new driver modules ( frequently provided for by the hardware vendor ) is a tad different from backporting major features ( i.e .
I think the choice of KVM in RHEL 5.4 would have been better served by waiting for RHEL6 , advancing the schedule if they feel it is important enough ) .
LSI probably already provided a driver developed against 2.6.18 and RHEL can fold that in , but do n't fold in a major SCSI subsystem change while you are at it just because you think it safe .
If I download a third party driver for a NIC that RHEL does n't support , I do n't want that compile to be impossible by going from RHEL5.2 to RHEL5.3 , which often occurs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First off, a disclaimer, as far as Fedora is concerned, they might as well keep doing what they are doing, or else there wouldn't me much difference between them and Ubuntu, as they have very similar release schedules and such.
If someone feels like you, they have Fedora, if they feel like me, Ubuntu.
Satisfying both of us with the same project would not be feasible.
I simply want to be clear on what each distro does differently so that people are educated.
Too often I see people play nice and be unwilling to call out the downsides of distro choices, making selecting one a more daunting task.
Fedora's choices, in my opinion, cater to a certain class of enthusiasts but precludes suitability for 'everyone'.That said, I would suggest discipline in development and forgoing features completely.
I see backporting obvious bugfixes, but not features.
In this case, if a feature will be in 2.6.32, either go with 2.6.31 and ignore it, or wait for 2.6.32 (i.e.
the memory page dedupe feature).
Backporting features and creating a relative frankenstein that is '2.6.31' in name only doesn't make sense to me.
They already show they'd be willing to go to a new kernel post-release, so its not like they are even saying they have to wait 6 months.
This isn't so terrible in Fedora, as the releases are at least in the near future and not a huge chasm to bridge.
For RHEL, the monster they have created being called '2.6.18' holds no meaning.
They've backported enough to not look like 2.6.18 did much, and yet there is so much not backported so it's not like any recent kernel either.
It's an amalgamation of features/function changes that I don't like seeing in an enterprise 'service pack' series, exacerbated by that particular mix being validated only in RHEL and not the larger community.You mention drivers, but new driver modules (frequently provided for by the hardware vendor) is a tad different from backporting major features (i.e.
I think the choice of KVM in RHEL 5.4 would have been better served by waiting for RHEL6, advancing the schedule if they feel it is important enough).
LSI probably already provided a driver developed against 2.6.18 and RHEL can fold that in, but don't fold in a major SCSI subsystem change while you are at it just because you think it safe.
If I download a third party driver for a NIC that RHEL doesn't support, I don't want that compile to be impossible by going from RHEL5.2 to RHEL5.3, which often occurs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132754</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132408</id>
	<title>Userbase</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258487460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is nice always to hear about Fedora. It is a distribution what really deserves bigger userbase than what Ubuntu has. Hopefully Fedora does not loose the place for Ubuntu on amount of users. Nice cutting edge packages (stable!), VERY nice community (much better than what Ubuntu has) and very nice graphics by great artists.</p><p>The Fedora is someway very classic feeling distribution what does not try to pretend anything else what it is, like what Ubuntu does. And fedora users are kind and helpfull more than Ubuntu users.</p><p>If one distribution we should choose to be our flagship, there are three options, Fedora, openSUSE or Mandriva.</p><p>It is just sad that Ubuntu gets all the hype and media, even it is not so nice as Fedora+RedHat combination (compared to Ubuntus 6 months release + LTS).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is nice always to hear about Fedora .
It is a distribution what really deserves bigger userbase than what Ubuntu has .
Hopefully Fedora does not loose the place for Ubuntu on amount of users .
Nice cutting edge packages ( stable !
) , VERY nice community ( much better than what Ubuntu has ) and very nice graphics by great artists.The Fedora is someway very classic feeling distribution what does not try to pretend anything else what it is , like what Ubuntu does .
And fedora users are kind and helpfull more than Ubuntu users.If one distribution we should choose to be our flagship , there are three options , Fedora , openSUSE or Mandriva.It is just sad that Ubuntu gets all the hype and media , even it is not so nice as Fedora + RedHat combination ( compared to Ubuntus 6 months release + LTS ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is nice always to hear about Fedora.
It is a distribution what really deserves bigger userbase than what Ubuntu has.
Hopefully Fedora does not loose the place for Ubuntu on amount of users.
Nice cutting edge packages (stable!
), VERY nice community (much better than what Ubuntu has) and very nice graphics by great artists.The Fedora is someway very classic feeling distribution what does not try to pretend anything else what it is, like what Ubuntu does.
And fedora users are kind and helpfull more than Ubuntu users.If one distribution we should choose to be our flagship, there are three options, Fedora, openSUSE or Mandriva.It is just sad that Ubuntu gets all the hype and media, even it is not so nice as Fedora+RedHat combination (compared to Ubuntus 6 months release + LTS).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132376</id>
	<title>Linux sucks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258487400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mod me down if you agree that Linux is the worst OS since Windows ME.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod me down if you agree that Linux is the worst OS since Windows ME .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod me down if you agree that Linux is the worst OS since Windows ME.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132574</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora?</title>
	<author>alukin</author>
	<datestamp>1258488000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's because of "great" F9 release with too many "innovations" like KDE 4.0... But they now recovering from that disease and trying to focus more on regular users and quality. At least F11 was impressive and I hope F12 is. Hell, Ubuntu 9.10 is near F9 by quality. They managed to break intel graphics support right after release! That's terrible.</p><p>I honestly hope that guys involved in distro development will not race for "features", they will race on quality instead.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's because of " great " F9 release with too many " innovations " like KDE 4.0... But they now recovering from that disease and trying to focus more on regular users and quality .
At least F11 was impressive and I hope F12 is .
Hell , Ubuntu 9.10 is near F9 by quality .
They managed to break intel graphics support right after release !
That 's terrible.I honestly hope that guys involved in distro development will not race for " features " , they will race on quality instead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's because of "great" F9 release with too many "innovations" like KDE 4.0... But they now recovering from that disease and trying to focus more on regular users and quality.
At least F11 was impressive and I hope F12 is.
Hell, Ubuntu 9.10 is near F9 by quality.
They managed to break intel graphics support right after release!
That's terrible.I honestly hope that guys involved in distro development will not race for "features", they will race on quality instead.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132274</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132628</id>
	<title>heres hoping</title>
	<author>nimbius</author>
	<datestamp>1258488240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>theyve fixed some pulseaudio bugs while they were at it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>theyve fixed some pulseaudio bugs while they were at it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>theyve fixed some pulseaudio bugs while they were at it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132828</id>
	<title>Ubuntu influence on marketing materials</title>
	<author>ewg</author>
	<datestamp>1258488900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can really see the Ubuntu influence on the Fedora marketing materials: smiling faces, happy about "software that helps you work, play, organize, and socialize."

Wait, did Fedora even <em>have</em> marketing materials before Ubuntu?</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can really see the Ubuntu influence on the Fedora marketing materials : smiling faces , happy about " software that helps you work , play , organize , and socialize .
" Wait , did Fedora even have marketing materials before Ubuntu ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can really see the Ubuntu influence on the Fedora marketing materials: smiling faces, happy about "software that helps you work, play, organize, and socialize.
"

Wait, did Fedora even have marketing materials before Ubuntu?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30134346</id>
	<title>Re:heres hoping</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258450740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I left Fedora at F11 when they decided to make the media players only usable with pulseaudio. In the prior versions you could remove pulseaudio and just use ALSA but in F11 the volume control in the media players won't work without pulseaudio. Neither will the little volume control in the desktop panel.</p><p>The developers actually went out of their way to patch the media players to not work with anything but that evil, evil pulseaudio. Insane! I saw that a bug was filed but was marked 'won't fix' by the the developers. That's when I started experimenting with Ubuntu, Debian, and openSuse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I left Fedora at F11 when they decided to make the media players only usable with pulseaudio .
In the prior versions you could remove pulseaudio and just use ALSA but in F11 the volume control in the media players wo n't work without pulseaudio .
Neither will the little volume control in the desktop panel.The developers actually went out of their way to patch the media players to not work with anything but that evil , evil pulseaudio .
Insane ! I saw that a bug was filed but was marked 'wo n't fix ' by the the developers .
That 's when I started experimenting with Ubuntu , Debian , and openSuse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I left Fedora at F11 when they decided to make the media players only usable with pulseaudio.
In the prior versions you could remove pulseaudio and just use ALSA but in F11 the volume control in the media players won't work without pulseaudio.
Neither will the little volume control in the desktop panel.The developers actually went out of their way to patch the media players to not work with anything but that evil, evil pulseaudio.
Insane! I saw that a bug was filed but was marked 'won't fix' by the the developers.
That's when I started experimenting with Ubuntu, Debian, and openSuse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132628</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133700</id>
	<title>Re:Dead platforms....</title>
	<author>LordNimon</author>
	<datestamp>1258448640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>PowerPC is doing very well in the embedded space, thank you very much.  Freescale just released an 8-core CPU that runs Linux very well.  I admit that Fedora 12 may not be a good distro for embedded devices, but you're spreading FUD when you put PowerPC in the same category as SPARC and Itanium.</htmltext>
<tokenext>PowerPC is doing very well in the embedded space , thank you very much .
Freescale just released an 8-core CPU that runs Linux very well .
I admit that Fedora 12 may not be a good distro for embedded devices , but you 're spreading FUD when you put PowerPC in the same category as SPARC and Itanium .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PowerPC is doing very well in the embedded space, thank you very much.
Freescale just released an 8-core CPU that runs Linux very well.
I admit that Fedora 12 may not be a good distro for embedded devices, but you're spreading FUD when you put PowerPC in the same category as SPARC and Itanium.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132804</id>
	<title>Fedora 12 is the most exciting release ever</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258488840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have a massive erection and I'm only halfway down downloading it. Talk about blue balls!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a massive erection and I 'm only halfway down downloading it .
Talk about blue balls !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a massive erection and I'm only halfway down downloading it.
Talk about blue balls!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132140</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30142910</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>internet-redstar</author>
	<datestamp>1257088440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You have put it very correctly.
<p>
We use Fedora, RHEL, Ubuntu and OpenSuSE all the time for our Linux courses to IT Experts.<br>
The new users only like Ubuntu and RHEL 'stability' doesn't match with their stupid backporting because they just like a lower version number. In the end it's very arrogant of Red Hat to pretend to know better than the LKML and they produce a less stable and less tested end result.
</p><p>
Let's hope Ubuntu will keep up their good work!<br>
Jasper.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have put it very correctly .
We use Fedora , RHEL , Ubuntu and OpenSuSE all the time for our Linux courses to IT Experts .
The new users only like Ubuntu and RHEL 'stability ' does n't match with their stupid backporting because they just like a lower version number .
In the end it 's very arrogant of Red Hat to pretend to know better than the LKML and they produce a less stable and less tested end result .
Let 's hope Ubuntu will keep up their good work !
Jasper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have put it very correctly.
We use Fedora, RHEL, Ubuntu and OpenSuSE all the time for our Linux courses to IT Experts.
The new users only like Ubuntu and RHEL 'stability' doesn't match with their stupid backporting because they just like a lower version number.
In the end it's very arrogant of Red Hat to pretend to know better than the LKML and they produce a less stable and less tested end result.
Let's hope Ubuntu will keep up their good work!
Jasper.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132356</id>
	<title>Meh.  I'll wait for Fedora 13</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258487280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They'll work the bugs out of Fedora 12 just in time for Fedora 13 to come out.  Plus Fedora 13 will be better.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>// also holding out for 2160p Hi-Def 3-D Smell-A-Vision</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 'll work the bugs out of Fedora 12 just in time for Fedora 13 to come out .
Plus Fedora 13 will be better .
// also holding out for 2160p Hi-Def 3-D Smell-A-Vision</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They'll work the bugs out of Fedora 12 just in time for Fedora 13 to come out.
Plus Fedora 13 will be better.
// also holding out for 2160p Hi-Def 3-D Smell-A-Vision</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30144028</id>
	<title>Fedora 12, welcome!</title>
	<author>Max\_W</author>
	<datestamp>1257092880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know to well that when in a city there is one major ISP (Internet Service Provider) and this ISP is owned by a corporation, which happened to be a competitor of your company, than an access to your website may well become unstable.</p><p>It is not a technical issue, it is an issue with the human nature.</p><p>The same with an OS. Behind nice images and blue-sky pictures of each OS there are human interests and characters of real people.</p><p>The more good working OS are on the market the better. I have on my computers always 2 OS, with dual boot. Even though I work mainly with one I keep spending some time on learning the second OS, learning its features, one at a time, etc.</p><p>It may happen that one day I will give a try to Fedora 12 too. It is not because my current distribution is not working, it s because I am not that young already and I know people only too well.</p><p>We need more good OSs, more good ISPs, and so on, so that there is always a free choice and a competition.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know to well that when in a city there is one major ISP ( Internet Service Provider ) and this ISP is owned by a corporation , which happened to be a competitor of your company , than an access to your website may well become unstable.It is not a technical issue , it is an issue with the human nature.The same with an OS .
Behind nice images and blue-sky pictures of each OS there are human interests and characters of real people.The more good working OS are on the market the better .
I have on my computers always 2 OS , with dual boot .
Even though I work mainly with one I keep spending some time on learning the second OS , learning its features , one at a time , etc.It may happen that one day I will give a try to Fedora 12 too .
It is not because my current distribution is not working , it s because I am not that young already and I know people only too well.We need more good OSs , more good ISPs , and so on , so that there is always a free choice and a competition .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know to well that when in a city there is one major ISP (Internet Service Provider) and this ISP is owned by a corporation, which happened to be a competitor of your company, than an access to your website may well become unstable.It is not a technical issue, it is an issue with the human nature.The same with an OS.
Behind nice images and blue-sky pictures of each OS there are human interests and characters of real people.The more good working OS are on the market the better.
I have on my computers always 2 OS, with dual boot.
Even though I work mainly with one I keep spending some time on learning the second OS, learning its features, one at a time, etc.It may happen that one day I will give a try to Fedora 12 too.
It is not because my current distribution is not working, it s because I am not that young already and I know people only too well.We need more good OSs, more good ISPs, and so on, so that there is always a free choice and a competition.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132790</id>
	<title>Re:Still no IA64 support...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258488780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe nobody cares about Itanium and Sparc (well, some people cares about sparc, but they probably use opensolaris) and there are not enought volunteers to handle those arches with the same priority x86 has?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe nobody cares about Itanium and Sparc ( well , some people cares about sparc , but they probably use opensolaris ) and there are not enought volunteers to handle those arches with the same priority x86 has ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe nobody cares about Itanium and Sparc (well, some people cares about sparc, but they probably use opensolaris) and there are not enought volunteers to handle those arches with the same priority x86 has?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132494</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132486</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora?</title>
	<author>EkriirkE</author>
	<datestamp>1258487700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132044</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30134520</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>RiotingPacifist</author>
	<datestamp>1258451340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I wish it was possible to upgrade to a new major version without upgrading everything else at once. It shouldn't be pushed as an automatic or opt-out update though, only manual or opt-in.</p></div><p>apt-pinning, include a later repo and pin any app you want to upgrade to the new repo, some distros (i.e debian) even support thise, but it **should** work on any that use sane version numbering (i.e you do not release a new version of a package and call it the same as the last).</p><p>I mean the sane choice is to use backports to get newer software (or back ports and pinning, if you don't want everything up to date), but to answere exactly what you asked for i would have to say apt-pinning.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wish it was possible to upgrade to a new major version without upgrading everything else at once .
It should n't be pushed as an automatic or opt-out update though , only manual or opt-in.apt-pinning , include a later repo and pin any app you want to upgrade to the new repo , some distros ( i.e debian ) even support thise , but it * * should * * work on any that use sane version numbering ( i.e you do not release a new version of a package and call it the same as the last ) .I mean the sane choice is to use backports to get newer software ( or back ports and pinning , if you do n't want everything up to date ) , but to answere exactly what you asked for i would have to say apt-pinning .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wish it was possible to upgrade to a new major version without upgrading everything else at once.
It shouldn't be pushed as an automatic or opt-out update though, only manual or opt-in.apt-pinning, include a later repo and pin any app you want to upgrade to the new repo, some distros (i.e debian) even support thise, but it **should** work on any that use sane version numbering (i.e you do not release a new version of a package and call it the same as the last).I mean the sane choice is to use backports to get newer software (or back ports and pinning, if you don't want everything up to date), but to answere exactly what you asked for i would have to say apt-pinning.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133020</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30142772</id>
	<title>Re:gparted and ntfs-3g on live cd?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257087720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For at least the last 3 years - since I have been using Fedora - it's been possible to resize, create and delete partitions - yes, even ntfs partitions - from within the installer. It's done within anaconda (the installer) though, using parted, rather than gparted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For at least the last 3 years - since I have been using Fedora - it 's been possible to resize , create and delete partitions - yes , even ntfs partitions - from within the installer .
It 's done within anaconda ( the installer ) though , using parted , rather than gparted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For at least the last 3 years - since I have been using Fedora - it's been possible to resize, create and delete partitions - yes, even ntfs partitions - from within the installer.
It's done within anaconda (the installer) though, using parted, rather than gparted.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30134258</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132540</id>
	<title>Fedora Server Hammered (of course)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258487880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just tried to download the Live CD--according to my browser's download manager, it was going to take16 hours! No better luck with FTP from the command line either. You may want to wait until tomorrow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just tried to download the Live CD--according to my browser 's download manager , it was going to take16 hours !
No better luck with FTP from the command line either .
You may want to wait until tomorrow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just tried to download the Live CD--according to my browser's download manager, it was going to take16 hours!
No better luck with FTP from the command line either.
You may want to wait until tomorrow.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132990</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>sopssa</author>
	<datestamp>1258489440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The primary example of this is yum, which is a third rate program by comparision to apt. In fact, my personal opinion is that the success of Ubuntu has been down to properly maintained and comprehensive apt-repositories. When I left Fedora, yum had nothing in the same league as these, and dependency hell was very much still with the platform.</p></div><p>It's funny you say that, because that was also my problem - but with apt and debian. Also their repositories contain apps that are stupidly build and are missing features (and if you want those features, you have to compile it yourself which defeats the purpose of using a package manager to begin with).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The primary example of this is yum , which is a third rate program by comparision to apt .
In fact , my personal opinion is that the success of Ubuntu has been down to properly maintained and comprehensive apt-repositories .
When I left Fedora , yum had nothing in the same league as these , and dependency hell was very much still with the platform.It 's funny you say that , because that was also my problem - but with apt and debian .
Also their repositories contain apps that are stupidly build and are missing features ( and if you want those features , you have to compile it yourself which defeats the purpose of using a package manager to begin with ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The primary example of this is yum, which is a third rate program by comparision to apt.
In fact, my personal opinion is that the success of Ubuntu has been down to properly maintained and comprehensive apt-repositories.
When I left Fedora, yum had nothing in the same league as these, and dependency hell was very much still with the platform.It's funny you say that, because that was also my problem - but with apt and debian.
Also their repositories contain apps that are stupidly build and are missing features (and if you want those features, you have to compile it yourself which defeats the purpose of using a package manager to begin with).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132690</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133110</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>diegocg</author>
	<datestamp>1258489740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>-Fedora is 'too' comfortable with cutting edge changes,</i></p><p>That's why I'm switching from Ubuntu to Fedora - I want cutting edge stuff, but not unstable enought to scare me and break all my stuff. Many fedora package maintainers are red hat programmers who are also important kernel/libc/gcc/gnome/pulseaudio/x.org hackers, they drop cutting edge stuff but it's their stuff and they fix it quickly. Ubuntu packagers however are usually just packagers. Often, Fedora maintainers test features in the distro \_before\_ they are merged in upstream. For example, this Fedora version includes many nice KVM improvements, the utrace kernel patches needed for Systemtap userspace probing which are not upstream, the out-of-the-tree nouveau driver enabled by default... It's certainly more unstable than Ubuntu, but it's also more interesting for my taste. Also, using fedora I help to test and stabilize features that will go later into other distros.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>-Fedora is 'too ' comfortable with cutting edge changes,That 's why I 'm switching from Ubuntu to Fedora - I want cutting edge stuff , but not unstable enought to scare me and break all my stuff .
Many fedora package maintainers are red hat programmers who are also important kernel/libc/gcc/gnome/pulseaudio/x.org hackers , they drop cutting edge stuff but it 's their stuff and they fix it quickly .
Ubuntu packagers however are usually just packagers .
Often , Fedora maintainers test features in the distro \ _before \ _ they are merged in upstream .
For example , this Fedora version includes many nice KVM improvements , the utrace kernel patches needed for Systemtap userspace probing which are not upstream , the out-of-the-tree nouveau driver enabled by default... It 's certainly more unstable than Ubuntu , but it 's also more interesting for my taste .
Also , using fedora I help to test and stabilize features that will go later into other distros .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>-Fedora is 'too' comfortable with cutting edge changes,That's why I'm switching from Ubuntu to Fedora - I want cutting edge stuff, but not unstable enought to scare me and break all my stuff.
Many fedora package maintainers are red hat programmers who are also important kernel/libc/gcc/gnome/pulseaudio/x.org hackers, they drop cutting edge stuff but it's their stuff and they fix it quickly.
Ubuntu packagers however are usually just packagers.
Often, Fedora maintainers test features in the distro \_before\_ they are merged in upstream.
For example, this Fedora version includes many nice KVM improvements, the utrace kernel patches needed for Systemtap userspace probing which are not upstream, the out-of-the-tree nouveau driver enabled by default... It's certainly more unstable than Ubuntu, but it's also more interesting for my taste.
Also, using fedora I help to test and stabilize features that will go later into other distros.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132038</id>
	<title>Great work!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258486320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you read the <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora\_12\_one\_page\_release\_notes" title="fedoraproject.org">one page release notes</a> [fedoraproject.org], it seems Fedora actually knows how to try to cater to more general audience too, while still supporting the core Linux audience. I have always thought that why Ubuntu became the "standard" general OS you introduce as first Linux, as Fedora does a lot more things a lot better (and the Red Hat delivered design is imo a lot better than whats delivered from Debian)</p><p>What was interesting was the "better than ever tablet support". I have been thinking of getting a tablet pc for convenience in bed, and Linux would actually be quite perfect OS for it since theres no need to play games. Seems they're taken things like that into account too, while Linux community usually forgets the non-techie stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you read the one page release notes [ fedoraproject.org ] , it seems Fedora actually knows how to try to cater to more general audience too , while still supporting the core Linux audience .
I have always thought that why Ubuntu became the " standard " general OS you introduce as first Linux , as Fedora does a lot more things a lot better ( and the Red Hat delivered design is imo a lot better than whats delivered from Debian ) What was interesting was the " better than ever tablet support " .
I have been thinking of getting a tablet pc for convenience in bed , and Linux would actually be quite perfect OS for it since theres no need to play games .
Seems they 're taken things like that into account too , while Linux community usually forgets the non-techie stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you read the one page release notes [fedoraproject.org], it seems Fedora actually knows how to try to cater to more general audience too, while still supporting the core Linux audience.
I have always thought that why Ubuntu became the "standard" general OS you introduce as first Linux, as Fedora does a lot more things a lot better (and the Red Hat delivered design is imo a lot better than whats delivered from Debian)What was interesting was the "better than ever tablet support".
I have been thinking of getting a tablet pc for convenience in bed, and Linux would actually be quite perfect OS for it since theres no need to play games.
Seems they're taken things like that into account too, while Linux community usually forgets the non-techie stuff.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30138834</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1258472760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The problem I have with Fedora is the F@#$@ release cycle.  I want something that's both relatively up-to-date, but also doesn't release a new version every six months to do that. Of course, it doesn't help that every fedora installation I've ever had has gone belly up due to package management issues within a year...<p><div class="quote"><p>I have been thinking of getting a tablet pc for convenience in bed</p></div><p>I am <b>not</b> gonna touch that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem I have with Fedora is the F @ # $ @ release cycle .
I want something that 's both relatively up-to-date , but also does n't release a new version every six months to do that .
Of course , it does n't help that every fedora installation I 've ever had has gone belly up due to package management issues within a year...I have been thinking of getting a tablet pc for convenience in bedI am not gon na touch that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem I have with Fedora is the F@#$@ release cycle.
I want something that's both relatively up-to-date, but also doesn't release a new version every six months to do that.
Of course, it doesn't help that every fedora installation I've ever had has gone belly up due to package management issues within a year...I have been thinking of getting a tablet pc for convenience in bedI am not gonna touch that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30140034</id>
	<title>Re:Still no IA64 support...</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1258482240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>I wonder if they're intentionally trying to drive people to RHEL on these platforms.</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>Fedora offers infrastructure to those willing to put the work into secondary architectures.  Where architectures fall off, there is simply a lack of manpower.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if they 're intentionally trying to drive people to RHEL on these platforms .
Fedora offers infrastructure to those willing to put the work into secondary architectures .
Where architectures fall off , there is simply a lack of manpower .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> I wonder if they're intentionally trying to drive people to RHEL on these platforms.
Fedora offers infrastructure to those willing to put the work into secondary architectures.
Where architectures fall off, there is simply a lack of manpower.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132494</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30134330</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>RiotingPacifist</author>
	<datestamp>1258450680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>-Out-of-the-box media/driver experience: Fedora goes purist and the out-of-the-box experience suffers for it with lack of popular codecs and optimal drivers for nVidia cards. Ubuntu caters to the user experience and takes care of this out of the box. You have to add RPM fusion repositories to make Fedora cope with this, which isn't insurmountable, but isn't out of the box.</p></div><p>Installing microsoft fonts was a real PITA, there might be an easier way to do it but in fedora11 i needed to do it urgently and ended up having to compile, that's not acceptable!</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Ubuntu *usually* doesn't jump the gun (GRUB 2 is an example of going before the upstream declares 'ready' though).</p></div><p>what about kde4 and pulseaudio? ubutnu is just as bad it just includes stuff as soon as upstream release it though.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>-Out-of-the-box media/driver experience : Fedora goes purist and the out-of-the-box experience suffers for it with lack of popular codecs and optimal drivers for nVidia cards .
Ubuntu caters to the user experience and takes care of this out of the box .
You have to add RPM fusion repositories to make Fedora cope with this , which is n't insurmountable , but is n't out of the box.Installing microsoft fonts was a real PITA , there might be an easier way to do it but in fedora11 i needed to do it urgently and ended up having to compile , that 's not acceptable ! Ubuntu * usually * does n't jump the gun ( GRUB 2 is an example of going before the upstream declares 'ready ' though ) .what about kde4 and pulseaudio ?
ubutnu is just as bad it just includes stuff as soon as upstream release it though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>-Out-of-the-box media/driver experience: Fedora goes purist and the out-of-the-box experience suffers for it with lack of popular codecs and optimal drivers for nVidia cards.
Ubuntu caters to the user experience and takes care of this out of the box.
You have to add RPM fusion repositories to make Fedora cope with this, which isn't insurmountable, but isn't out of the box.Installing microsoft fonts was a real PITA, there might be an easier way to do it but in fedora11 i needed to do it urgently and ended up having to compile, that's not acceptable!Ubuntu *usually* doesn't jump the gun (GRUB 2 is an example of going before the upstream declares 'ready' though).what about kde4 and pulseaudio?
ubutnu is just as bad it just includes stuff as soon as upstream release it though.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30138950</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>Junta</author>
	<datestamp>1258473600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hard to meet both requirements at work without requiring a lot of effort on your part.</p><p>If you don't mind the changes coming closer to upstream release regardless of the next 'major' release, Fedora may be best for you, but be prepared for them to make choices you don't seek out.</p><p>If you only want an app to update when you choose, and no other time, go with Ubuntu.  If you have exceptions, be preparred to manage them on a case-by-case basis (I have some PPAs added to mine for projects I have enthusiast type interest in, for example).  This necessitates more work, but it's the price to be paid if you care about 'key' applications and fear the rest of the system changing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hard to meet both requirements at work without requiring a lot of effort on your part.If you do n't mind the changes coming closer to upstream release regardless of the next 'major ' release , Fedora may be best for you , but be prepared for them to make choices you do n't seek out.If you only want an app to update when you choose , and no other time , go with Ubuntu .
If you have exceptions , be preparred to manage them on a case-by-case basis ( I have some PPAs added to mine for projects I have enthusiast type interest in , for example ) .
This necessitates more work , but it 's the price to be paid if you care about 'key ' applications and fear the rest of the system changing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hard to meet both requirements at work without requiring a lot of effort on your part.If you don't mind the changes coming closer to upstream release regardless of the next 'major' release, Fedora may be best for you, but be prepared for them to make choices you don't seek out.If you only want an app to update when you choose, and no other time, go with Ubuntu.
If you have exceptions, be preparred to manage them on a case-by-case basis (I have some PPAs added to mine for projects I have enthusiast type interest in, for example).
This necessitates more work, but it's the price to be paid if you care about 'key' applications and fear the rest of the system changing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133020</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133694</id>
	<title>Re:Huh, they're using the Nouveau driver...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258448640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My wife's Dell D820 laptop suspends and resume properly with the nouveau driver.   It doesn't do 3D, but I don't use 3D apps very often.  I'll install the Nvidia binaries when I have to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife 's Dell D820 laptop suspends and resume properly with the nouveau driver .
It does n't do 3D , but I do n't use 3D apps very often .
I 'll install the Nvidia binaries when I have to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife's Dell D820 laptop suspends and resume properly with the nouveau driver.
It doesn't do 3D, but I don't use 3D apps very often.
I'll install the Nvidia binaries when I have to.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132586</id>
	<title>Re:it didn't detect my usb mouse so i can't instal</title>
	<author>Simmeh</author>
	<datestamp>1258488060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This happened to a friend of mine with Ubuntu. Was a pain. I made sure it didn't put him off linux though.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This happened to a friend of mine with Ubuntu .
Was a pain .
I made sure it did n't put him off linux though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This happened to a friend of mine with Ubuntu.
Was a pain.
I made sure it didn't put him off linux though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132218</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132802</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora Server Hammered (of course)</title>
	<author>und0</author>
	<datestamp>1258488840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can try to join the BitTorrent swarm...</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can try to join the BitTorrent swarm.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can try to join the BitTorrent swarm...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132540</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133280</id>
	<title>Re:Huh, they're using the Nouveau driver...</title>
	<author>brejc8</author>
	<datestamp>1258490280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It works, and it works amazingly well. I admin 50+ machines and I used to always install both the nvidia and ati closed drivers because users want compiz. A year ago ati cards started working out the box, now so does nvidia.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It works , and it works amazingly well .
I admin 50 + machines and I used to always install both the nvidia and ati closed drivers because users want compiz .
A year ago ati cards started working out the box , now so does nvidia .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It works, and it works amazingly well.
I admin 50+ machines and I used to always install both the nvidia and ati closed drivers because users want compiz.
A year ago ati cards started working out the box, now so does nvidia.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30135946</id>
	<title>Re:Huh, they're using the Nouveau driver...</title>
	<author>Richard W.M. Jones</author>
	<datestamp>1258456200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To be honest, the experience of nouveau for me has been pretty horrible.  I've found that it crashes once every 2 or 3 days.  The old nv driver was slow, but at least it was stable.</p><p>Note that this could just be my particular hardware/software combo, and I do tend to run only the bleeding edge.  (Fedora 12?  Pah!  I'm already on Rawhide!)</p><p>Rich.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To be honest , the experience of nouveau for me has been pretty horrible .
I 've found that it crashes once every 2 or 3 days .
The old nv driver was slow , but at least it was stable.Note that this could just be my particular hardware/software combo , and I do tend to run only the bleeding edge .
( Fedora 12 ?
Pah ! I 'm already on Rawhide !
) Rich .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To be honest, the experience of nouveau for me has been pretty horrible.
I've found that it crashes once every 2 or 3 days.
The old nv driver was slow, but at least it was stable.Note that this could just be my particular hardware/software combo, and I do tend to run only the bleeding edge.
(Fedora 12?
Pah!  I'm already on Rawhide!
)Rich.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30135164</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>zdzichu</author>
	<datestamp>1258453380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being cutting edge is what I like in Fedora. As for some kernel backports -- among them are btrfs backports. Those are changes which weren't even written when<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.31 was released. But those changes and fixes are quite important and I'm happy that Josef merged them in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.31 shipped by Fedora.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being cutting edge is what I like in Fedora .
As for some kernel backports -- among them are btrfs backports .
Those are changes which were n't even written when .31 was released .
But those changes and fixes are quite important and I 'm happy that Josef merged them in .31 shipped by Fedora .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being cutting edge is what I like in Fedora.
As for some kernel backports -- among them are btrfs backports.
Those are changes which weren't even written when .31 was released.
But those changes and fixes are quite important and I'm happy that Josef merged them in .31 shipped by Fedora.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30134424</id>
	<title>Re:Still no IA64 support...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258450980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>PPC is deader than disco</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>PPC is deader than disco</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PPC is deader than disco</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132494</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133988</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258449600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But Redhat still can't beat dpkg (and apt-get or aptitude). IMHO, popularity of Debian based distros, especially Ubuntu, is significantly based on Debian's solid, robust and reliable package manager.</p><p>If Redhat makes Yum as reliable and solid, it will help them a lot.</p><p>In fact, I don't think any package manager yet compares to dpkg and apt-get and aptitude in terms of user friendliness, robustness, features and reliability.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But Redhat still ca n't beat dpkg ( and apt-get or aptitude ) .
IMHO , popularity of Debian based distros , especially Ubuntu , is significantly based on Debian 's solid , robust and reliable package manager.If Redhat makes Yum as reliable and solid , it will help them a lot.In fact , I do n't think any package manager yet compares to dpkg and apt-get and aptitude in terms of user friendliness , robustness , features and reliability .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But Redhat still can't beat dpkg (and apt-get or aptitude).
IMHO, popularity of Debian based distros, especially Ubuntu, is significantly based on Debian's solid, robust and reliable package manager.If Redhat makes Yum as reliable and solid, it will help them a lot.In fact, I don't think any package manager yet compares to dpkg and apt-get and aptitude in terms of user friendliness, robustness, features and reliability.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132652</id>
	<title>Huh, they're using the Nouveau driver...</title>
	<author>Saint Aardvark</author>
	<datestamp>1258488300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I notice in the <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora\_12\_Announcement" title="fedoraproject.org">release notes</a> [fedoraproject.org] they're using the <a href="http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/" title="freedesktop.org">Nouveau</a> [freedesktop.org] driver for NVidia cards.  I've been meaning to check the status of that driver for a while now -- but is this common in distros yet?  (I'm a sysadmin mostly working on servers, so I'm a little out of touch.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I notice in the release notes [ fedoraproject.org ] they 're using the Nouveau [ freedesktop.org ] driver for NVidia cards .
I 've been meaning to check the status of that driver for a while now -- but is this common in distros yet ?
( I 'm a sysadmin mostly working on servers , so I 'm a little out of touch .
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I notice in the release notes [fedoraproject.org] they're using the Nouveau [freedesktop.org] driver for NVidia cards.
I've been meaning to check the status of that driver for a while now -- but is this common in distros yet?
(I'm a sysadmin mostly working on servers, so I'm a little out of touch.
:-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30134046</id>
	<title>ATI works out of the box!</title>
	<author>thule</author>
	<datestamp>1258449720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have a Thinkpad T60p.  The video chip is an "ATI Technologies Inc M56GL [Mobility FireGL V5250]."  With Fedora 12, for the first time, I have stable 3D video on this system.  This includes running the proprietary drivers.  I am currently running Compiz with Fedora 12 with the "experimental" ATI 3D support.  The are still some issues with games, but for basic 3D the driver is solid.  No problems with power management (suspect/hibernate)!  <br>
<br>
One of Fedora's goals is to get rid of the need for distributing proprietary drivers.  So far they seem to be doing a very good job.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a Thinkpad T60p .
The video chip is an " ATI Technologies Inc M56GL [ Mobility FireGL V5250 ] .
" With Fedora 12 , for the first time , I have stable 3D video on this system .
This includes running the proprietary drivers .
I am currently running Compiz with Fedora 12 with the " experimental " ATI 3D support .
The are still some issues with games , but for basic 3D the driver is solid .
No problems with power management ( suspect/hibernate ) !
One of Fedora 's goals is to get rid of the need for distributing proprietary drivers .
So far they seem to be doing a very good job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a Thinkpad T60p.
The video chip is an "ATI Technologies Inc M56GL [Mobility FireGL V5250].
"  With Fedora 12, for the first time, I have stable 3D video on this system.
This includes running the proprietary drivers.
I am currently running Compiz with Fedora 12 with the "experimental" ATI 3D support.
The are still some issues with games, but for basic 3D the driver is solid.
No problems with power management (suspect/hibernate)!
One of Fedora's goals is to get rid of the need for distributing proprietary drivers.
So far they seem to be doing a very good job.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30150816</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257079920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to agree with the being 'too' comfortable with cutting edge changes comment.  Fedora has always been my favorite linux distribution, but unfortunately I have now had to jump ship.  Fedora 11 would not even install when I tried installing from the DVD, I always had to install via HTTP.  Now with Fedora 12, it will install on my system, but after rebooting Fedora 12 freezes while starting services.  Most of the time right after starting udev, but sometimes it will go as far as hal if I press Ctl+Alt+Backspace to get rid of plymouth.  Ubuntu and Windows install without a hitch.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to agree with the being 'too ' comfortable with cutting edge changes comment .
Fedora has always been my favorite linux distribution , but unfortunately I have now had to jump ship .
Fedora 11 would not even install when I tried installing from the DVD , I always had to install via HTTP .
Now with Fedora 12 , it will install on my system , but after rebooting Fedora 12 freezes while starting services .
Most of the time right after starting udev , but sometimes it will go as far as hal if I press Ctl + Alt + Backspace to get rid of plymouth .
Ubuntu and Windows install without a hitch .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to agree with the being 'too' comfortable with cutting edge changes comment.
Fedora has always been my favorite linux distribution, but unfortunately I have now had to jump ship.
Fedora 11 would not even install when I tried installing from the DVD, I always had to install via HTTP.
Now with Fedora 12, it will install on my system, but after rebooting Fedora 12 freezes while starting services.
Most of the time right after starting udev, but sometimes it will go as far as hal if I press Ctl+Alt+Backspace to get rid of plymouth.
Ubuntu and Windows install without a hitch.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133444</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>brejc8</author>
	<datestamp>1258490940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I spent 2 years installing apt on fedora machines, and about 3 or 4 years ago I stopped, because yum is now just as good as apt. It has the same features, is just as easy and the performance difference is, to me, not visible.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I spent 2 years installing apt on fedora machines , and about 3 or 4 years ago I stopped , because yum is now just as good as apt .
It has the same features , is just as easy and the performance difference is , to me , not visible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I spent 2 years installing apt on fedora machines, and about 3 or 4 years ago I stopped, because yum is now just as good as apt.
It has the same features, is just as easy and the performance difference is, to me, not visible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132690</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132512</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258487760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is subjective that Fedora does 'a lot more things a lot better'.  They certainly have distinct aims from Ubuntu and gain some benefits, but I personally find Fedora to suffer some phenomena that Ubuntu does not:</p><p>-Out-of-the-box media/driver experience:  Fedora goes purist and the out-of-the-box experience suffers for it with lack of popular codecs and optimal drivers for nVidia cards.  Ubuntu caters to the user experience and takes care of this out of the box.  You have to add RPM fusion repositories to make Fedora cope with this, which isn't insurmountable, but isn't out of the box.</p><p>-Fedora is not even stable within a release cycle in terms of offered featureset.  I.e. I recall gaim 1.x being replaced with gaim 2.0 one day without requiring any particular update.  This is good for enthusiasts who always want the cutting edge, bad for end-users who only want change at certain times they could expect (and for documenters doing screenshots).  I recall once Fedora reving the kernel revision entirely without jumping releases.  This wasn't bad in and of itself, but they jumped before nVidia supported it, and my X was hosed.  Ubuntu is more conservative with this, knowing it will just be 6 months before a new cycle comes anyway.</p><p>-Fedora is 'too' comfortable with cutting edge changes, even to the point of releasing versions ahead of upstream *or* backporting code from future versions into older versions that upstream projects didn't want to do.  For example, they backported things from the 2.6.32 branch to 2.6.31.  The upstream kernel people weren't comfortable enough with the features to allow them into 2.6.31 or any release that aligned with their cycle, so they simply put 2.6.32 stuff into 2.6.31.  This has been a longstanding tendency with RH (everyone probably remembers the gcc 2.96 debacle).  BTW, this is even worse in RHEL, where they will backport 2.6.3x changes to 2.6.18, severely breaking third party kernel modules that code for the 'API' of 2.6.18 that gets broken by the massive amount of backports.  Some third party even writes to newer 'apis', but wraps it with '&gt; 2.6.26' sorts of ifdefs and thus assumes the 'old' api and RHEL will completely screw those assumptions.  Ubuntu *usually* doesn't jump the gun (GRUB 2 is an example of going before the upstream declares 'ready' though).</p><p>-I *still* can't quite put my finger on it, but something about the Ubuntu desktop feels, subjectively to me, more whole rather than merely a conglomeration of the parts.  This may simply be a matter of certain tastes they appear to me, because I can't nail it down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is subjective that Fedora does 'a lot more things a lot better' .
They certainly have distinct aims from Ubuntu and gain some benefits , but I personally find Fedora to suffer some phenomena that Ubuntu does not : -Out-of-the-box media/driver experience : Fedora goes purist and the out-of-the-box experience suffers for it with lack of popular codecs and optimal drivers for nVidia cards .
Ubuntu caters to the user experience and takes care of this out of the box .
You have to add RPM fusion repositories to make Fedora cope with this , which is n't insurmountable , but is n't out of the box.-Fedora is not even stable within a release cycle in terms of offered featureset .
I.e. I recall gaim 1.x being replaced with gaim 2.0 one day without requiring any particular update .
This is good for enthusiasts who always want the cutting edge , bad for end-users who only want change at certain times they could expect ( and for documenters doing screenshots ) .
I recall once Fedora reving the kernel revision entirely without jumping releases .
This was n't bad in and of itself , but they jumped before nVidia supported it , and my X was hosed .
Ubuntu is more conservative with this , knowing it will just be 6 months before a new cycle comes anyway.-Fedora is 'too ' comfortable with cutting edge changes , even to the point of releasing versions ahead of upstream * or * backporting code from future versions into older versions that upstream projects did n't want to do .
For example , they backported things from the 2.6.32 branch to 2.6.31 .
The upstream kernel people were n't comfortable enough with the features to allow them into 2.6.31 or any release that aligned with their cycle , so they simply put 2.6.32 stuff into 2.6.31 .
This has been a longstanding tendency with RH ( everyone probably remembers the gcc 2.96 debacle ) .
BTW , this is even worse in RHEL , where they will backport 2.6.3x changes to 2.6.18 , severely breaking third party kernel modules that code for the 'API ' of 2.6.18 that gets broken by the massive amount of backports .
Some third party even writes to newer 'apis ' , but wraps it with ' &gt; 2.6.26 ' sorts of ifdefs and thus assumes the 'old ' api and RHEL will completely screw those assumptions .
Ubuntu * usually * does n't jump the gun ( GRUB 2 is an example of going before the upstream declares 'ready ' though ) .-I * still * ca n't quite put my finger on it , but something about the Ubuntu desktop feels , subjectively to me , more whole rather than merely a conglomeration of the parts .
This may simply be a matter of certain tastes they appear to me , because I ca n't nail it down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is subjective that Fedora does 'a lot more things a lot better'.
They certainly have distinct aims from Ubuntu and gain some benefits, but I personally find Fedora to suffer some phenomena that Ubuntu does not:-Out-of-the-box media/driver experience:  Fedora goes purist and the out-of-the-box experience suffers for it with lack of popular codecs and optimal drivers for nVidia cards.
Ubuntu caters to the user experience and takes care of this out of the box.
You have to add RPM fusion repositories to make Fedora cope with this, which isn't insurmountable, but isn't out of the box.-Fedora is not even stable within a release cycle in terms of offered featureset.
I.e. I recall gaim 1.x being replaced with gaim 2.0 one day without requiring any particular update.
This is good for enthusiasts who always want the cutting edge, bad for end-users who only want change at certain times they could expect (and for documenters doing screenshots).
I recall once Fedora reving the kernel revision entirely without jumping releases.
This wasn't bad in and of itself, but they jumped before nVidia supported it, and my X was hosed.
Ubuntu is more conservative with this, knowing it will just be 6 months before a new cycle comes anyway.-Fedora is 'too' comfortable with cutting edge changes, even to the point of releasing versions ahead of upstream *or* backporting code from future versions into older versions that upstream projects didn't want to do.
For example, they backported things from the 2.6.32 branch to 2.6.31.
The upstream kernel people weren't comfortable enough with the features to allow them into 2.6.31 or any release that aligned with their cycle, so they simply put 2.6.32 stuff into 2.6.31.
This has been a longstanding tendency with RH (everyone probably remembers the gcc 2.96 debacle).
BTW, this is even worse in RHEL, where they will backport 2.6.3x changes to 2.6.18, severely breaking third party kernel modules that code for the 'API' of 2.6.18 that gets broken by the massive amount of backports.
Some third party even writes to newer 'apis', but wraps it with '&gt; 2.6.26' sorts of ifdefs and thus assumes the 'old' api and RHEL will completely screw those assumptions.
Ubuntu *usually* doesn't jump the gun (GRUB 2 is an example of going before the upstream declares 'ready' though).-I *still* can't quite put my finger on it, but something about the Ubuntu desktop feels, subjectively to me, more whole rather than merely a conglomeration of the parts.
This may simply be a matter of certain tastes they appear to me, because I can't nail it down.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30138462</id>
	<title>My mobile broadband works again</title>
	<author>ralphc</author>
	<datestamp>1258469640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Somewhere shortly after Fedora 10 came out there was a kernel update, and my Sierra Wireless 3g card stopped working. It stopped working on Ubuntu about the same time, and there were bug reports in both places, but no fixes. Fedora 11 and Ubuntu 9.04 didn't fix it, but with Fedora 12 it works again. I'm typing this from a VMWare running the Fedora 12 Live ISO and the 3g in a USB port.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Somewhere shortly after Fedora 10 came out there was a kernel update , and my Sierra Wireless 3g card stopped working .
It stopped working on Ubuntu about the same time , and there were bug reports in both places , but no fixes .
Fedora 11 and Ubuntu 9.04 did n't fix it , but with Fedora 12 it works again .
I 'm typing this from a VMWare running the Fedora 12 Live ISO and the 3g in a USB port .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Somewhere shortly after Fedora 10 came out there was a kernel update, and my Sierra Wireless 3g card stopped working.
It stopped working on Ubuntu about the same time, and there were bug reports in both places, but no fixes.
Fedora 11 and Ubuntu 9.04 didn't fix it, but with Fedora 12 it works again.
I'm typing this from a VMWare running the Fedora 12 Live ISO and the 3g in a USB port.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30140168</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1258483320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>Wouldnt fedora be precisely the WRONG distro to use as a server on a network, given that it is a bleeding edge distro?</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>Your question is impossible to answer without requirements.  Do you need the features that just came out and want them packaged more than you want to avoid yearly OS updates?  If so, Fedora is natural.  If not, not so much.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wouldnt fedora be precisely the WRONG distro to use as a server on a network , given that it is a bleeding edge distro ?
Your question is impossible to answer without requirements .
Do you need the features that just came out and want them packaged more than you want to avoid yearly OS updates ?
If so , Fedora is natural .
If not , not so much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Wouldnt fedora be precisely the WRONG distro to use as a server on a network, given that it is a bleeding edge distro?
Your question is impossible to answer without requirements.
Do you need the features that just came out and want them packaged more than you want to avoid yearly OS updates?
If so, Fedora is natural.
If not, not so much.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30135210</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30135216</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>techno-vampire</author>
	<datestamp>1258453620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>This wasn't bad in and of itself, but they jumped before nVidia supported it, and my X was hosed.</i> <p>
Are you still using nVidia's<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.run file and re-installing it after every kernel update, and if so, why?  Add the RPMfusion repo and get both kmod-nvidia-whatever and akmod, plus the kernel-headers and Bob's your uncle.  Just be sure to uninstall the binary blob before you reboot so that there's no conflict.  Mostly, kmod's updated with the kernel, but if it isn't, akmod will rebuild it at boot and you'll never notice the difference.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This was n't bad in and of itself , but they jumped before nVidia supported it , and my X was hosed .
Are you still using nVidia 's .run file and re-installing it after every kernel update , and if so , why ?
Add the RPMfusion repo and get both kmod-nvidia-whatever and akmod , plus the kernel-headers and Bob 's your uncle .
Just be sure to uninstall the binary blob before you reboot so that there 's no conflict .
Mostly , kmod 's updated with the kernel , but if it is n't , akmod will rebuild it at boot and you 'll never notice the difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This wasn't bad in and of itself, but they jumped before nVidia supported it, and my X was hosed.
Are you still using nVidia's .run file and re-installing it after every kernel update, and if so, why?
Add the RPMfusion repo and get both kmod-nvidia-whatever and akmod, plus the kernel-headers and Bob's your uncle.
Just be sure to uninstall the binary blob before you reboot so that there's no conflict.
Mostly, kmod's updated with the kernel, but if it isn't, akmod will rebuild it at boot and you'll never notice the difference.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30134946</id>
	<title>PPC still popular in embedded and high performance</title>
	<author>Chirs</author>
	<datestamp>1258452780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>PowerPC is still popular in the embedded space as well as in the high performance space.  IBM's Power6 is a beast.</p><p>I still do development for telecommunications platforms based on PowerPC, although I suspect that they will be phased out over time in favour of x86.</p><p>As for ARM and MIPS, I've done kernel development for both of them and it's a real pain.  There are a bazillion variations of each and they're way late in the game to get major kernel features.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>PowerPC is still popular in the embedded space as well as in the high performance space .
IBM 's Power6 is a beast.I still do development for telecommunications platforms based on PowerPC , although I suspect that they will be phased out over time in favour of x86.As for ARM and MIPS , I 've done kernel development for both of them and it 's a real pain .
There are a bazillion variations of each and they 're way late in the game to get major kernel features .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PowerPC is still popular in the embedded space as well as in the high performance space.
IBM's Power6 is a beast.I still do development for telecommunications platforms based on PowerPC, although I suspect that they will be phased out over time in favour of x86.As for ARM and MIPS, I've done kernel development for both of them and it's a real pain.
There are a bazillion variations of each and they're way late in the game to get major kernel features.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133350</id>
	<title>Re:Huh, they're using the Nouveau driver...</title>
	<author>diegocg</author>
	<datestamp>1258490520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>According to the <a href="http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix" title="freedesktop.org" rel="nofollow">feature matrix</a> [freedesktop.org], they are already done with 2D support, video playback, dual head, Xrand, KMS and suspend/resume for all the chips, which are the neccesary functions for a functional gnome/kde desktop (minus compiz), so it's not suprising that distros are starting to include it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>According to the feature matrix [ freedesktop.org ] , they are already done with 2D support , video playback , dual head , Xrand , KMS and suspend/resume for all the chips , which are the neccesary functions for a functional gnome/kde desktop ( minus compiz ) , so it 's not suprising that distros are starting to include it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to the feature matrix [freedesktop.org], they are already done with 2D support, video playback, dual head, Xrand, KMS and suspend/resume for all the chips, which are the neccesary functions for a functional gnome/kde desktop (minus compiz), so it's not suprising that distros are starting to include it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132488</id>
	<title>2012 = year of linux on the desktop</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1258487700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OMG it's going to hit us!!!!</p><p>Oh, sorry.  Wrong story.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OMG it 's going to hit us ! ! !
! Oh , sorry .
Wrong story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OMG it's going to hit us!!!
!Oh, sorry.
Wrong story.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30134490</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>mejogid</author>
	<datestamp>1258451220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've switched from Fedora to Ubuntu recently just because of various small things that add up.  Synaptic has a much nicer feel to it than package-kit for me at this point, and PPAs are a brilliant system for keeping apps up to date over a single release cycle or testing out new applications - I'd love to see a Fedora equivalent if there is one.  I also find following developer releases more pleasant with Ubuntu, having used Karmic a couple of months before release.</p><p>Fedora does somehow give me a nicer feeling than Ubuntu, perhaps since Core 3 was my first full time Linux distro, so I'd welcome any arguments to get me to switch back!  I do appreciate the tech orientated development and user communities, and its out of the box experience is far more professional than many other distros in most areas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've switched from Fedora to Ubuntu recently just because of various small things that add up .
Synaptic has a much nicer feel to it than package-kit for me at this point , and PPAs are a brilliant system for keeping apps up to date over a single release cycle or testing out new applications - I 'd love to see a Fedora equivalent if there is one .
I also find following developer releases more pleasant with Ubuntu , having used Karmic a couple of months before release.Fedora does somehow give me a nicer feeling than Ubuntu , perhaps since Core 3 was my first full time Linux distro , so I 'd welcome any arguments to get me to switch back !
I do appreciate the tech orientated development and user communities , and its out of the box experience is far more professional than many other distros in most areas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've switched from Fedora to Ubuntu recently just because of various small things that add up.
Synaptic has a much nicer feel to it than package-kit for me at this point, and PPAs are a brilliant system for keeping apps up to date over a single release cycle or testing out new applications - I'd love to see a Fedora equivalent if there is one.
I also find following developer releases more pleasant with Ubuntu, having used Karmic a couple of months before release.Fedora does somehow give me a nicer feeling than Ubuntu, perhaps since Core 3 was my first full time Linux distro, so I'd welcome any arguments to get me to switch back!
I do appreciate the tech orientated development and user communities, and its out of the box experience is far more professional than many other distros in most areas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132754</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>AdamWill</author>
	<datestamp>1258488600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, what alternative do you suggest for introducing desired new features into older kernel versions? It's not really the case that upstream 'didn't want to' backport things from 2.6.32 to 2.6.31, it's just not what upstream does. Upstream kernel maintainers do not maintain kernel version X once it's released, they go on to work on kernel version Y, pretty much. That doesn't mean it's somehow wrong for a distribution to do it, often it's the right thing to do, and Fedora is not the only distribution that does this (Ubuntu does it too, in some cases).</p><p>Again, for RHEL, what's the alternative? The whole point of RHEL is to provide long-term stable releases, but customers also want support for newer hardware. When RH has several thousand large customers all screaming for support for their shiny new SAN hardware that they just spent several zillion dollars on, saying 'well, we're not going to backport that driver to kernel 2.6.18' isn't really an option, and updating them all wholesale to a new kernel release probably wouldn't be the best idea in the world either. What would you suggest RH does instead?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , what alternative do you suggest for introducing desired new features into older kernel versions ?
It 's not really the case that upstream 'did n't want to ' backport things from 2.6.32 to 2.6.31 , it 's just not what upstream does .
Upstream kernel maintainers do not maintain kernel version X once it 's released , they go on to work on kernel version Y , pretty much .
That does n't mean it 's somehow wrong for a distribution to do it , often it 's the right thing to do , and Fedora is not the only distribution that does this ( Ubuntu does it too , in some cases ) .Again , for RHEL , what 's the alternative ?
The whole point of RHEL is to provide long-term stable releases , but customers also want support for newer hardware .
When RH has several thousand large customers all screaming for support for their shiny new SAN hardware that they just spent several zillion dollars on , saying 'well , we 're not going to backport that driver to kernel 2.6.18 ' is n't really an option , and updating them all wholesale to a new kernel release probably would n't be the best idea in the world either .
What would you suggest RH does instead ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, what alternative do you suggest for introducing desired new features into older kernel versions?
It's not really the case that upstream 'didn't want to' backport things from 2.6.32 to 2.6.31, it's just not what upstream does.
Upstream kernel maintainers do not maintain kernel version X once it's released, they go on to work on kernel version Y, pretty much.
That doesn't mean it's somehow wrong for a distribution to do it, often it's the right thing to do, and Fedora is not the only distribution that does this (Ubuntu does it too, in some cases).Again, for RHEL, what's the alternative?
The whole point of RHEL is to provide long-term stable releases, but customers also want support for newer hardware.
When RH has several thousand large customers all screaming for support for their shiny new SAN hardware that they just spent several zillion dollars on, saying 'well, we're not going to backport that driver to kernel 2.6.18' isn't really an option, and updating them all wholesale to a new kernel release probably wouldn't be the best idea in the world either.
What would you suggest RH does instead?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30134258</id>
	<title>gparted and ntfs-3g on live cd?</title>
	<author>Culture20</author>
	<datestamp>1258450500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Does the Live CD have gparted and ntfs-3g yet?  It's kind of silly having to use Ubuntu Live CDs to partition prior to installing Fedora.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does the Live CD have gparted and ntfs-3g yet ?
It 's kind of silly having to use Ubuntu Live CDs to partition prior to installing Fedora .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does the Live CD have gparted and ntfs-3g yet?
It's kind of silly having to use Ubuntu Live CDs to partition prior to installing Fedora.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132044</id>
	<title>Fedora?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258486320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does anybody still use Fedora?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does anybody still use Fedora ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does anybody still use Fedora?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132328</id>
	<title>SystemTap</title>
	<author>krelian</author>
	<datestamp>1258487160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Also available in this release are SystemTap 1.0 for improved instrumenting and debugging of binaries, complete with Eclipse integration</p></div><p>I've tried SystemTap and it looks really really cool . I understand that this project is "dtrace for linux". Can someone with experience with both tools give a rundown on how SystemTap 1.0 currently compares with dtrace?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also available in this release are SystemTap 1.0 for improved instrumenting and debugging of binaries , complete with Eclipse integrationI 've tried SystemTap and it looks really really cool .
I understand that this project is " dtrace for linux " .
Can someone with experience with both tools give a rundown on how SystemTap 1.0 currently compares with dtrace ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also available in this release are SystemTap 1.0 for improved instrumenting and debugging of binaries, complete with Eclipse integrationI've tried SystemTap and it looks really really cool .
I understand that this project is "dtrace for linux".
Can someone with experience with both tools give a rundown on how SystemTap 1.0 currently compares with dtrace?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133044</id>
	<title>Not just IA64 either</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258489560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The same applies to Xen. STILL no Xen Dom0 support. Come on, guys. Fedora is nice and all, but most of the Virtualization research, and advances, is with Xen.</p><p>RHE follows the same path. Yeah, RH pays token, grudging lipservice to Xen. But the efforts there are half hearted and what they offer is so old as the not be of interest.</p><p>I know RH invested money and placed their bet on KVM. But it's a bad bet to piss off your customers. And right now, I'm looking elsewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The same applies to Xen .
STILL no Xen Dom0 support .
Come on , guys .
Fedora is nice and all , but most of the Virtualization research , and advances , is with Xen.RHE follows the same path .
Yeah , RH pays token , grudging lipservice to Xen .
But the efforts there are half hearted and what they offer is so old as the not be of interest.I know RH invested money and placed their bet on KVM .
But it 's a bad bet to piss off your customers .
And right now , I 'm looking elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The same applies to Xen.
STILL no Xen Dom0 support.
Come on, guys.
Fedora is nice and all, but most of the Virtualization research, and advances, is with Xen.RHE follows the same path.
Yeah, RH pays token, grudging lipservice to Xen.
But the efforts there are half hearted and what they offer is so old as the not be of interest.I know RH invested money and placed their bet on KVM.
But it's a bad bet to piss off your customers.
And right now, I'm looking elsewhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132494</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133020</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>TorKlingberg</author>
	<datestamp>1258489500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>-Fedora is not even stable within a release cycle in terms of offered featureset.  I.e. I recall gaim 1.x being replaced with gaim 2.0 one day without requiring any particular update.  This is good for enthusiasts who always want the cutting edge, bad for end-users who only want change at certain times they could expect (and for documenters doing screenshots).</p></div><p>On the other hand, with Ubuntu you are stuck with old versions of applications until you upgrade the whole system. For application software that is unlikely to break other things, I wish it was possible to upgrade to a new major version without upgrading everything else at once. It shouldn't be pushed as an automatic or opt-out update though, only manual or opt-in.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>-Fedora is not even stable within a release cycle in terms of offered featureset .
I.e. I recall gaim 1.x being replaced with gaim 2.0 one day without requiring any particular update .
This is good for enthusiasts who always want the cutting edge , bad for end-users who only want change at certain times they could expect ( and for documenters doing screenshots ) .On the other hand , with Ubuntu you are stuck with old versions of applications until you upgrade the whole system .
For application software that is unlikely to break other things , I wish it was possible to upgrade to a new major version without upgrading everything else at once .
It should n't be pushed as an automatic or opt-out update though , only manual or opt-in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>-Fedora is not even stable within a release cycle in terms of offered featureset.
I.e. I recall gaim 1.x being replaced with gaim 2.0 one day without requiring any particular update.
This is good for enthusiasts who always want the cutting edge, bad for end-users who only want change at certain times they could expect (and for documenters doing screenshots).On the other hand, with Ubuntu you are stuck with old versions of applications until you upgrade the whole system.
For application software that is unlikely to break other things, I wish it was possible to upgrade to a new major version without upgrading everything else at once.
It shouldn't be pushed as an automatic or opt-out update though, only manual or opt-in.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30139620</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>WuphonsReach</author>
	<datestamp>1258478700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Eh, that really only limits the disk that holds the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/boot partition.  (Our preferred setup is RAID1 for the boot disk, then RAID-10 or RAID-6 for the rest of the disks.  So unless 15k RPM disks get over 2TB by 2012, it won't be that big of an issue.)<br>
<br>
But yes, I would hope that RHEL 6 tackles that issue.<br>
<br>
And if you have 1300 servers... it's past time to SAN.  Take the disks out of the servers and switch to blades.  (SAN is a lot harder sell for small businesses with less then 20 servers.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Eh , that really only limits the disk that holds the /boot partition .
( Our preferred setup is RAID1 for the boot disk , then RAID-10 or RAID-6 for the rest of the disks .
So unless 15k RPM disks get over 2TB by 2012 , it wo n't be that big of an issue .
) But yes , I would hope that RHEL 6 tackles that issue .
And if you have 1300 servers... it 's past time to SAN .
Take the disks out of the servers and switch to blades .
( SAN is a lot harder sell for small businesses with less then 20 servers .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Eh, that really only limits the disk that holds the /boot partition.
(Our preferred setup is RAID1 for the boot disk, then RAID-10 or RAID-6 for the rest of the disks.
So unless 15k RPM disks get over 2TB by 2012, it won't be that big of an issue.
)

But yes, I would hope that RHEL 6 tackles that issue.
And if you have 1300 servers... it's past time to SAN.
Take the disks out of the servers and switch to blades.
(SAN is a lot harder sell for small businesses with less then 20 servers.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30137970</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132646</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora Server Hammered (of course)</title>
	<author>SUB7IME</author>
	<datestamp>1258488240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or grab a torrent! <a href="http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/</a> [fedoraproject.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or grab a torrent !
http : //torrent.fedoraproject.org/ [ fedoraproject.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or grab a torrent!
http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/ [fedoraproject.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132540</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30141506</id>
	<title>Re:Huh, they're using the Nouveau driver...</title>
	<author>koogydelbbog</author>
	<datestamp>1257074820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>my X has stopped working since they started using nouveau. doesn't seem to understand my newish card (NVidia G130M) with an odd resolution (1366x768). i haven't debugged it much more than that, just switched back to using ubuntu on the other partition (which is missing ethernet and wireless support but at least i can see something)</p><p>(nouveau page says that NV50 is supported so i should be ok. will try again.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>my X has stopped working since they started using nouveau .
does n't seem to understand my newish card ( NVidia G130M ) with an odd resolution ( 1366x768 ) .
i have n't debugged it much more than that , just switched back to using ubuntu on the other partition ( which is missing ethernet and wireless support but at least i can see something ) ( nouveau page says that NV50 is supported so i should be ok. will try again .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>my X has stopped working since they started using nouveau.
doesn't seem to understand my newish card (NVidia G130M) with an odd resolution (1366x768).
i haven't debugged it much more than that, just switched back to using ubuntu on the other partition (which is missing ethernet and wireless support but at least i can see something)(nouveau page says that NV50 is supported so i should be ok. will try again.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132652</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30137970</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258465740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My major complaint du jour (as a sysadmin working with over 1300 RHEL systems) is that Fedora (and thus future RHELs) haven't moved to grub2 and GPT yet.</p><p>This isn't a major problem with Fedora, but the scuttlebutt is that RHEL6 is going to be based on Fedora 12; and we're going to be using RHEL6.x for probably 5 years into the future.</p><p>Without moving to GPT, we won't be able to boot off of logical (or physical) disks that are greater than 2TiB.  This is a limitation of using an MBR.  For the home user, this most likely isn't going to be a problem for a while - even the 2TB disks that are out there are smaller than 2 TiB, so they're fine for MBR's.  But, for enterprise solutions, if you put 6 or 8 500GB disks in a rackmount and raid5 them, or 1TB disks and raid10 them, you're going to need a separate logical disk that you can install the MBR to.</p><p>There are a couple of work arounds - rumor has it that the Perc6e command line configuration utility can manually specify the logical disk size and truncate at (2TiB - 1k), but I've never gotten it to work.  You can hex edit the MBR and chop it off at the 32 bit limit.  Or, you can hack anaconda to support grub2, since it already uses parted (i think), but that's a bit of a kludge.  Or, you can stick the MBR and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/boot/ on a USB key, but that's kludgey too.</p><p>Other distros use GPT at this point, and supposedly it's completely backwards compatible.  Windows 2008 can do it.  But, last I checked (and I've been looking into this a lot lately), Fedora 12's repo still lists grub2 as ***this is experimental don't use unless you're a sadist*** etc.</p><p>~X</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My major complaint du jour ( as a sysadmin working with over 1300 RHEL systems ) is that Fedora ( and thus future RHELs ) have n't moved to grub2 and GPT yet.This is n't a major problem with Fedora , but the scuttlebutt is that RHEL6 is going to be based on Fedora 12 ; and we 're going to be using RHEL6.x for probably 5 years into the future.Without moving to GPT , we wo n't be able to boot off of logical ( or physical ) disks that are greater than 2TiB .
This is a limitation of using an MBR .
For the home user , this most likely is n't going to be a problem for a while - even the 2TB disks that are out there are smaller than 2 TiB , so they 're fine for MBR 's .
But , for enterprise solutions , if you put 6 or 8 500GB disks in a rackmount and raid5 them , or 1TB disks and raid10 them , you 're going to need a separate logical disk that you can install the MBR to.There are a couple of work arounds - rumor has it that the Perc6e command line configuration utility can manually specify the logical disk size and truncate at ( 2TiB - 1k ) , but I 've never gotten it to work .
You can hex edit the MBR and chop it off at the 32 bit limit .
Or , you can hack anaconda to support grub2 , since it already uses parted ( i think ) , but that 's a bit of a kludge .
Or , you can stick the MBR and /boot/ on a USB key , but that 's kludgey too.Other distros use GPT at this point , and supposedly it 's completely backwards compatible .
Windows 2008 can do it .
But , last I checked ( and I 've been looking into this a lot lately ) , Fedora 12 's repo still lists grub2 as * * * this is experimental do n't use unless you 're a sadist * * * etc. ~ X</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My major complaint du jour (as a sysadmin working with over 1300 RHEL systems) is that Fedora (and thus future RHELs) haven't moved to grub2 and GPT yet.This isn't a major problem with Fedora, but the scuttlebutt is that RHEL6 is going to be based on Fedora 12; and we're going to be using RHEL6.x for probably 5 years into the future.Without moving to GPT, we won't be able to boot off of logical (or physical) disks that are greater than 2TiB.
This is a limitation of using an MBR.
For the home user, this most likely isn't going to be a problem for a while - even the 2TB disks that are out there are smaller than 2 TiB, so they're fine for MBR's.
But, for enterprise solutions, if you put 6 or 8 500GB disks in a rackmount and raid5 them, or 1TB disks and raid10 them, you're going to need a separate logical disk that you can install the MBR to.There are a couple of work arounds - rumor has it that the Perc6e command line configuration utility can manually specify the logical disk size and truncate at (2TiB - 1k), but I've never gotten it to work.
You can hex edit the MBR and chop it off at the 32 bit limit.
Or, you can hack anaconda to support grub2, since it already uses parted (i think), but that's a bit of a kludge.
Or, you can stick the MBR and /boot/ on a USB key, but that's kludgey too.Other distros use GPT at this point, and supposedly it's completely backwards compatible.
Windows 2008 can do it.
But, last I checked (and I've been looking into this a lot lately), Fedora 12's repo still lists grub2 as ***this is experimental don't use unless you're a sadist*** etc.~X</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133600</id>
	<title>RH backporting debacle ..</title>
	<author>rs232</author>
	<datestamp>1258491480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"<i>-Fedora is 'too' comfortable with cutting edge changes, even to the point of releasing versions ahead of upstream *or* backporting<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. This has been a longstanding tendency with RH (everyone probably remembers the gcc 2.96 debacle)</i>"<br> <br>

I honestly don't, do you mind providing a link. Did people come in one morning and find their gcc 2.96 had automatically upgraded itself?<br> <br>

"<i>something about the Ubuntu desktop feels, subjectively to me, more whole rather than merely a conglomeration of the parts. This may simply be a matter of certain tastes they appear to me, because I can't nail it down</i>"<br> <br>

You gets what you pay for. But to answer why Ubuntu is more whole, maybe because there is Canonical behind it. But then again I have been a user of openSuSE, and while all the parts were there, they weren't as polished as a Ubuntu distro. I guess it's what  you're used to and besides no one is forcing you to upgrade<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</htmltext>
<tokenext>" -Fedora is 'too ' comfortable with cutting edge changes , even to the point of releasing versions ahead of upstream * or * backporting .. This has been a longstanding tendency with RH ( everyone probably remembers the gcc 2.96 debacle ) " I honestly do n't , do you mind providing a link .
Did people come in one morning and find their gcc 2.96 had automatically upgraded itself ?
" something about the Ubuntu desktop feels , subjectively to me , more whole rather than merely a conglomeration of the parts .
This may simply be a matter of certain tastes they appear to me , because I ca n't nail it down " You gets what you pay for .
But to answer why Ubuntu is more whole , maybe because there is Canonical behind it .
But then again I have been a user of openSuSE , and while all the parts were there , they were n't as polished as a Ubuntu distro .
I guess it 's what you 're used to and besides no one is forcing you to upgrade .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"-Fedora is 'too' comfortable with cutting edge changes, even to the point of releasing versions ahead of upstream *or* backporting .. This has been a longstanding tendency with RH (everyone probably remembers the gcc 2.96 debacle)" 

I honestly don't, do you mind providing a link.
Did people come in one morning and find their gcc 2.96 had automatically upgraded itself?
"something about the Ubuntu desktop feels, subjectively to me, more whole rather than merely a conglomeration of the parts.
This may simply be a matter of certain tastes they appear to me, because I can't nail it down" 

You gets what you pay for.
But to answer why Ubuntu is more whole, maybe because there is Canonical behind it.
But then again I have been a user of openSuSE, and while all the parts were there, they weren't as polished as a Ubuntu distro.
I guess it's what  you're used to and besides no one is forcing you to upgrade ...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132690</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>ObsessiveMathsFreak</author>
	<datestamp>1258488420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>...as Fedora does a lot more things a lot better</p></div></blockquote><p>That hasn't been my experience. I find Fedora does a lot less, and doesn't do it as well. The primary example of this is yum, which is a third rate program by comparision to apt. In fact, my personal opinion is that the success of Ubuntu has been down to properly maintained and comprehensive apt-repositories. When I left Fedora, yum had nothing in the same league as these, and dependency hell was very much still with the platform.</p><p>Fedora is a distro for admins who want ease of use, but not so much ease of use that they lose their jobs. They want the odd error or config mismatch so they need to directly intervene on occasion. So they won't go for debian or especially Ubuntu. On the other hand, they're not going to do all the legwork, so distros like slack or Gentoo are out of the question. Add in paid company support and "enterprise" editions, and you have the perfect distro for the in house admin of a medium to large business.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...as Fedora does a lot more things a lot betterThat has n't been my experience .
I find Fedora does a lot less , and does n't do it as well .
The primary example of this is yum , which is a third rate program by comparision to apt .
In fact , my personal opinion is that the success of Ubuntu has been down to properly maintained and comprehensive apt-repositories .
When I left Fedora , yum had nothing in the same league as these , and dependency hell was very much still with the platform.Fedora is a distro for admins who want ease of use , but not so much ease of use that they lose their jobs .
They want the odd error or config mismatch so they need to directly intervene on occasion .
So they wo n't go for debian or especially Ubuntu .
On the other hand , they 're not going to do all the legwork , so distros like slack or Gentoo are out of the question .
Add in paid company support and " enterprise " editions , and you have the perfect distro for the in house admin of a medium to large business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...as Fedora does a lot more things a lot betterThat hasn't been my experience.
I find Fedora does a lot less, and doesn't do it as well.
The primary example of this is yum, which is a third rate program by comparision to apt.
In fact, my personal opinion is that the success of Ubuntu has been down to properly maintained and comprehensive apt-repositories.
When I left Fedora, yum had nothing in the same league as these, and dependency hell was very much still with the platform.Fedora is a distro for admins who want ease of use, but not so much ease of use that they lose their jobs.
They want the odd error or config mismatch so they need to directly intervene on occasion.
So they won't go for debian or especially Ubuntu.
On the other hand, they're not going to do all the legwork, so distros like slack or Gentoo are out of the question.
Add in paid company support and "enterprise" editions, and you have the perfect distro for the in house admin of a medium to large business.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132636</id>
	<title>Re:it didn't detect my usb mouse so i can't instal</title>
	<author>alukin</author>
	<datestamp>1258488240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't even hope! Multi-touch is not supported by windows yet. But there is a chance all 3 mice will work in F12<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't even hope !
Multi-touch is not supported by windows yet .
But there is a chance all 3 mice will work in F12 : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't even hope!
Multi-touch is not supported by windows yet.
But there is a chance all 3 mice will work in F12 :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132218</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132140</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora?</title>
	<author>AdamWill</author>
	<datestamp>1258486620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes. <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics" title="fedoraproject.org">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics</a> [fedoraproject.org] - we have seen over 2.4 million installations of Fedora 11 so far, a 20\% increase on Fedora 10. Methodology is extensively discussed on the linked page.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes .
http : //fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics [ fedoraproject.org ] - we have seen over 2.4 million installations of Fedora 11 so far , a 20 \ % increase on Fedora 10 .
Methodology is extensively discussed on the linked page .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics [fedoraproject.org] - we have seen over 2.4 million installations of Fedora 11 so far, a 20\% increase on Fedora 10.
Methodology is extensively discussed on the linked page.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132044</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30151596</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>Risen888</author>
	<datestamp>1257084540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I have been thinking of getting a tablet pc for convenience in bed</i></p><p>Eeeew.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have been thinking of getting a tablet pc for convenience in bedEeeew .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have been thinking of getting a tablet pc for convenience in bedEeeew.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30139292</id>
	<title>Re:Not just IA64 either</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258476240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Red Hat has thrown Xen on a gurney. Soon it'll be pushing up daisies right next to BSD. Any attractive feature in Xen will make its way into KVM/Qemu and you can use xenner to bridge the gap before migrating.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Red Hat has thrown Xen on a gurney .
Soon it 'll be pushing up daisies right next to BSD .
Any attractive feature in Xen will make its way into KVM/Qemu and you can use xenner to bridge the gap before migrating .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Red Hat has thrown Xen on a gurney.
Soon it'll be pushing up daisies right next to BSD.
Any attractive feature in Xen will make its way into KVM/Qemu and you can use xenner to bridge the gap before migrating.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133044</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133066</id>
	<title>Market, Not Conspiracy</title>
	<author>fm6</author>
	<datestamp>1258489620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That would make sense if Fedora were a server OS. But it's not. Can you name a single in-production workstation based on Itanium or Sparc? Don't say "Sun" -- they dropped their last Sparc workstation over a year ago.</p><p>I don't know which platforms RHEL currently supports (redhat.com is quite unhelpful on that score) but Googling the site doesn't turn up anything for the Sparc or IA64 later than 2007. I suspect Red Hat is just not interested in non-commodity architectures any more.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That would make sense if Fedora were a server OS .
But it 's not .
Can you name a single in-production workstation based on Itanium or Sparc ?
Do n't say " Sun " -- they dropped their last Sparc workstation over a year ago.I do n't know which platforms RHEL currently supports ( redhat.com is quite unhelpful on that score ) but Googling the site does n't turn up anything for the Sparc or IA64 later than 2007 .
I suspect Red Hat is just not interested in non-commodity architectures any more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That would make sense if Fedora were a server OS.
But it's not.
Can you name a single in-production workstation based on Itanium or Sparc?
Don't say "Sun" -- they dropped their last Sparc workstation over a year ago.I don't know which platforms RHEL currently supports (redhat.com is quite unhelpful on that score) but Googling the site doesn't turn up anything for the Sparc or IA64 later than 2007.
I suspect Red Hat is just not interested in non-commodity architectures any more.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132494</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30138566</id>
	<title>I'm upgrading</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258470540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm <b>so</b> upgrading to Fedora 12, I tried the Alpha, it's <em> <strong>Awsome</strong> </em>!!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm so upgrading to Fedora 12 , I tried the Alpha , it 's Awsome ! ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm so upgrading to Fedora 12, I tried the Alpha, it's  Awsome !!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132864</id>
	<title>Dead platforms....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258489020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dude, PPC is dead so get over it.  The PS3/Cell was the last hardware you could actually buy and it dropped support for Linux in the latest hardware rev.  And the previous support was crippled to the point of pointlessness.</p><p>SPARC is long in the grave.  SPARC64 is still around but again, nobody actually has anything other than old ancient stuff that isn't going to have the resources for a pig[1] like Fedora.  Excepting a few peeps buying new hardware, but they are going to run Solaris on new gear.  Old zombie platforms is what NetBSD is for.</p><p>Itanium?  Yes HP is still making a half-hearted effort to move units but really.  Nice try but it too has failed in the marketplace.</p><p>These days the action is in small.  ARM and MIPS are what we should be looking for in ports these days.</p><p>[1] No a slam, if you track current desktops, OO.o, FF, etc. the result is going to oink.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dude , PPC is dead so get over it .
The PS3/Cell was the last hardware you could actually buy and it dropped support for Linux in the latest hardware rev .
And the previous support was crippled to the point of pointlessness.SPARC is long in the grave .
SPARC64 is still around but again , nobody actually has anything other than old ancient stuff that is n't going to have the resources for a pig [ 1 ] like Fedora .
Excepting a few peeps buying new hardware , but they are going to run Solaris on new gear .
Old zombie platforms is what NetBSD is for.Itanium ?
Yes HP is still making a half-hearted effort to move units but really .
Nice try but it too has failed in the marketplace.These days the action is in small .
ARM and MIPS are what we should be looking for in ports these days .
[ 1 ] No a slam , if you track current desktops , OO.o , FF , etc .
the result is going to oink .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dude, PPC is dead so get over it.
The PS3/Cell was the last hardware you could actually buy and it dropped support for Linux in the latest hardware rev.
And the previous support was crippled to the point of pointlessness.SPARC is long in the grave.
SPARC64 is still around but again, nobody actually has anything other than old ancient stuff that isn't going to have the resources for a pig[1] like Fedora.
Excepting a few peeps buying new hardware, but they are going to run Solaris on new gear.
Old zombie platforms is what NetBSD is for.Itanium?
Yes HP is still making a half-hearted effort to move units but really.
Nice try but it too has failed in the marketplace.These days the action is in small.
ARM and MIPS are what we should be looking for in ports these days.
[1] No a slam, if you track current desktops, OO.o, FF, etc.
the result is going to oink.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132494</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30138898</id>
	<title>Re:it didn't detect my usb mouse so i can't instal</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1258473240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sure it did.  It's also got a horrid command-line only interface, right? And maybe it required you to compile drivers from source? Any more 90s-era fud you wanna toss out there?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure it did .
It 's also got a horrid command-line only interface , right ?
And maybe it required you to compile drivers from source ?
Any more 90s-era fud you wan na toss out there ?
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure it did.
It's also got a horrid command-line only interface, right?
And maybe it required you to compile drivers from source?
Any more 90s-era fud you wanna toss out there?
;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132218</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133042</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258489560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>What was interesting was the "better than ever tablet support".</i></p><p>With all due respect, it could hardly be worse.</p><p>I'm guessing that what that really means is that they've progressed beyond "what's a tablet?" to "ok, we think we know what a tablet is... we added a tablet-looking icon!"</p><p>Sadly, I think Linux-in-general is about 5 years behind both Windows and OS X for tablet support. The really sad part of that? Apple doesn't even *make* a tablet. (Although, to be fair, they have a lot of users on Wacom drawing tablets, and that code I'm sure has come in handy for the iPhone. But still.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What was interesting was the " better than ever tablet support " .With all due respect , it could hardly be worse.I 'm guessing that what that really means is that they 've progressed beyond " what 's a tablet ?
" to " ok , we think we know what a tablet is... we added a tablet-looking icon !
" Sadly , I think Linux-in-general is about 5 years behind both Windows and OS X for tablet support .
The really sad part of that ?
Apple does n't even * make * a tablet .
( Although , to be fair , they have a lot of users on Wacom drawing tablets , and that code I 'm sure has come in handy for the iPhone .
But still .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What was interesting was the "better than ever tablet support".With all due respect, it could hardly be worse.I'm guessing that what that really means is that they've progressed beyond "what's a tablet?
" to "ok, we think we know what a tablet is... we added a tablet-looking icon!
"Sadly, I think Linux-in-general is about 5 years behind both Windows and OS X for tablet support.
The really sad part of that?
Apple doesn't even *make* a tablet.
(Although, to be fair, they have a lot of users on Wacom drawing tablets, and that code I'm sure has come in handy for the iPhone.
But still.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133368</id>
	<title>Re:heres hoping</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258490580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are no bugs in pulseaudio, the only problem with pulseaudio is you don't love it enough. If everyone could just get to know pulseaudio, to see it for what it truly is rather than just what you read about it, then I think you will find that pulseaudio not only manages your sound, but saves the environment, fixes the economy, cures cancer, and creates world peace.</p><p>You would have to be insane not to use pulseaudio, however that requirement will not be a problem for me...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are no bugs in pulseaudio , the only problem with pulseaudio is you do n't love it enough .
If everyone could just get to know pulseaudio , to see it for what it truly is rather than just what you read about it , then I think you will find that pulseaudio not only manages your sound , but saves the environment , fixes the economy , cures cancer , and creates world peace.You would have to be insane not to use pulseaudio , however that requirement will not be a problem for me.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are no bugs in pulseaudio, the only problem with pulseaudio is you don't love it enough.
If everyone could just get to know pulseaudio, to see it for what it truly is rather than just what you read about it, then I think you will find that pulseaudio not only manages your sound, but saves the environment, fixes the economy, cures cancer, and creates world peace.You would have to be insane not to use pulseaudio, however that requirement will not be a problem for me...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132628</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132054</id>
	<title>Too bad Linux is only for faggots.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258486380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you agree that Linux is only for faggots, then mod me down.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you agree that Linux is only for faggots , then mod me down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you agree that Linux is only for faggots, then mod me down.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30134976</id>
	<title>Re:gparted and ntfs-3g on live cd?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258452840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know about gparted but I doubt ntfs-3g will ever be included by default because of IP restrictions.  Fedora has always been very careful about anything with IP attached and doesn't include it in the repos.  You have to get it from RPM-Fusion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about gparted but I doubt ntfs-3g will ever be included by default because of IP restrictions .
Fedora has always been very careful about anything with IP attached and does n't include it in the repos .
You have to get it from RPM-Fusion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about gparted but I doubt ntfs-3g will ever be included by default because of IP restrictions.
Fedora has always been very careful about anything with IP attached and doesn't include it in the repos.
You have to get it from RPM-Fusion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30134258</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133904</id>
	<title>Re:Dead platforms....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258449300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The itanium is still very much a good product, it simply has a very niche market. I have built and maintain a great deal of ia64 clusters, primarily for Nastran. For that particular product, it kicks fucking ass over all others for price/performance. Why would you use fedora on a system that costs 90k per node? Just use RHEL, sheesh.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The itanium is still very much a good product , it simply has a very niche market .
I have built and maintain a great deal of ia64 clusters , primarily for Nastran .
For that particular product , it kicks fucking ass over all others for price/performance .
Why would you use fedora on a system that costs 90k per node ?
Just use RHEL , sheesh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The itanium is still very much a good product, it simply has a very niche market.
I have built and maintain a great deal of ia64 clusters, primarily for Nastran.
For that particular product, it kicks fucking ass over all others for price/performance.
Why would you use fedora on a system that costs 90k per node?
Just use RHEL, sheesh.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30134116</id>
	<title>Re:Great work!</title>
	<author>turbidostato</author>
	<datestamp>1258450020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Well, what alternative do you suggest for introducing desired new features into older kernel versions?"</p><p>An easy one: Do Not Do It.  Fedora is flagged and commited to be a "cutting edge" distribution.  This is quite a good thing for both some enthusiasts and professionals that want/need to know where Red Hat is aiming to in the not-so-distant future.  Well, Mr. Fedora: commit to it.</p><p>Again, for RHEL, what's the alternative? The whole point of RHEL is to provide long-term stable "releases"</p><p>Do it damn stable then.  No, changing APIs and behaviour is not "damn stable"; it break things.</p><p>"but customers also want support for newer hardware."</p><p>Then do your damn homework by means of proper QA or by means of a helluva expenditure in support (instead of one or two stable versions, like 4 and 5 do support half a dozen and publish new versions faster).  But, please, oh please, don't break what is already working.  That's exactly why I moved from RH to Debian (that and the fact they seem to want making themselves more palatable to newby/unkowledgeable admins than to veterans that know their trade).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Well , what alternative do you suggest for introducing desired new features into older kernel versions ?
" An easy one : Do Not Do It .
Fedora is flagged and commited to be a " cutting edge " distribution .
This is quite a good thing for both some enthusiasts and professionals that want/need to know where Red Hat is aiming to in the not-so-distant future .
Well , Mr. Fedora : commit to it.Again , for RHEL , what 's the alternative ?
The whole point of RHEL is to provide long-term stable " releases " Do it damn stable then .
No , changing APIs and behaviour is not " damn stable " ; it break things .
" but customers also want support for newer hardware .
" Then do your damn homework by means of proper QA or by means of a helluva expenditure in support ( instead of one or two stable versions , like 4 and 5 do support half a dozen and publish new versions faster ) .
But , please , oh please , do n't break what is already working .
That 's exactly why I moved from RH to Debian ( that and the fact they seem to want making themselves more palatable to newby/unkowledgeable admins than to veterans that know their trade ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Well, what alternative do you suggest for introducing desired new features into older kernel versions?
"An easy one: Do Not Do It.
Fedora is flagged and commited to be a "cutting edge" distribution.
This is quite a good thing for both some enthusiasts and professionals that want/need to know where Red Hat is aiming to in the not-so-distant future.
Well, Mr. Fedora: commit to it.Again, for RHEL, what's the alternative?
The whole point of RHEL is to provide long-term stable "releases"Do it damn stable then.
No, changing APIs and behaviour is not "damn stable"; it break things.
"but customers also want support for newer hardware.
"Then do your damn homework by means of proper QA or by means of a helluva expenditure in support (instead of one or two stable versions, like 4 and 5 do support half a dozen and publish new versions faster).
But, please, oh please, don't break what is already working.
That's exactly why I moved from RH to Debian (that and the fact they seem to want making themselves more palatable to newby/unkowledgeable admins than to veterans that know their trade).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132754</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_17_1810256_42</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133444
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132690
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132038
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_17_1810256_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30141506
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132652
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_17_1810256_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30133600
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132512
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_17_1810256.30132038
</commentlist>
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